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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Noesi has another strong outing in winter ball

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 03, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Arizona Fall League is finished, and there really aren’t a lot of big names from the Yankees system playing winter ball right now. Here are a few updates.

• Another good start for Hector Noesi down in the Dominican Republic. On Sunday he pitched five innings, allowing one run on five hits and no walks. His ERA in the Dominican Winter League is 2.22 with 17 strikeouts and six walks. In his past five starts he’s allowed three earned runs.

• Down in Mexico — wouldn’t you know it? – Jorge Vazquez is still clobbering home runs. The Yankees Triple-A first baseman and designated hitter has 15 homers and 48 RBI in 41 games. By the way, he’s also batting .362.

• Back to playing shortstop almost exclusively, Ramiro Pena is hitting .298/.375/.456 in Mexico. He’s played only 16 games and hasn’t played since November 24.

• In his return from shoulder surgery, Colin Curtis is hitting .250/.346/.412 in Venezuela. Two days ago he was hitting .283/.386/.467, but back-to-back 0-for-4 games knocked down his numbers.

• After two scoreless innings on Thursday, switch pitcher Pat Venditte‘s ERA is down to 2.63 in Mexico. Right handers are hitting just .186 against him, and the league as a whole is batting .200 against him.

• Left exposed to the Rule 5 draft, High-A center fielder Abe Almonte is hitting .172 primarily as a pinch hitter and pinch runner in the Dominican. He’s not to be confused with new 40-man addition Zoilo Almonte, who’s hitting .222 in the Dominican. That’s after a three-hit game on Friday.

 
 

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109 Responses to “Noesi has another strong outing in winter ball”

  1. Niblick December 3rd, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Why is Noesi pitching winter ball? Now he’ll be subject to some ridiculous innings limit in 2012 and be of no use to the big team.

  2. tucker December 3rd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Noesi is pitching now to build his innings. He was a starter, but his total innings dipped last year because he was in the Yanks’ pen. He needs to pitch more innings, that’s why he’s down there.

  3. Irreverent Discourse December 3rd, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Noesi would have been limited anyway.

    Can Vazquez play OF?

  4. 4 NYY December 3rd, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Would love to see Madson in pinstripes. Mo replacement ?

    Somehow trade AJ & Sorryano !!!

  5. dogface December 3rd, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    Can Vazquez play OF?

    =====================

    Not sure it would matter. Little evidence to suggest he can hit at the MLB level.

  6. Niblick December 3rd, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Sure, he’ll build his innings in the winter, and then there’ll be a stupid innings limit for the season. Makes no sense.

  7. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    - DOGFACE -
    Just how many MLB AB’s has Vazquez had with the Yanks?. I know in ST last season he tore the cover off the ball, missed the cut, and that’s the last I heard about him. I do not believe he has had a fair shot assa Yankee, as far as actually facing MLB Chuckers.

  8. Irreverent Discourse December 3rd, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    dogface – if he can come up as an OF rather than a 1B… there is room for him in 2 years. he seems to like hitting.

  9. Irreverent Discourse December 3rd, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Chad – It’s time to upgrade your bold names to links with info :)

  10. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    I wonder about Vazquez’s legitimate age. The guy has that worn look. Anyway, from what I saw outta him in ST last season, the dude is a masher.

  11. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    If Vazquez can play OF, so can Montero. I still say the speed issue regarding Montero and RF is ridiculous.

  12. DaSaint007 December 3rd, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Noesi continues to do well and could certainly supplant Garcia at some point.

    As Vazquez continues to mash, he builds his trade value as he has no role on this team…unless Montero gets traded, which is still unlikely. Would love to see Venditte get a shot in the pen, but I think he’s exposed in the Rule 5 draft also.

    Pena, Curtis, and Almonte are all trade fodder.

  13. rl1856 December 3rd, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Read in a few places that Noesi is consistently hitting 97. Over the past few years it seems that Dominican League numbers have been more accurate indicators of future ML success than the other winter Leagues. Thought there have been a few surprises out of Mexico. Recall that Bartolo Colon’s road back the ML started with good/great numbers in the Dominican League.

    After the ’11 season, I think Cashman said that Noesi was pitching winter ball to build innings. Hopefully ip limits will be less of an issue in ’12. From what I have read he may be better than Nova and could top out as a solid #2-3 in the rotation.

    With the starting 5 seemingly set, and all of the backup arms ready to step in I suspect that interest in FA starters has receded and unless a trade makes compelling sense, very little will change between now and 4/12. Good position to be in.

  14. DaSaint007 December 3rd, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    The only FA starter that really interests me is Buehrle, as he’s a veteran lefty who’s AL tested, and an excellent fielder. Plus, I can’t see him getting more than a 2 year deal with a 3rd year team or mutual option.

    A rotation of CC, AJ, Buehrle, and two of Nova, Hughes, Noesi and Garcia, with the two who don’t make the rotation moving to the pen joining Mo, D-Rob, Sori, and Logan.

  15. Baseball Mogul December 3rd, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Saint-

    No interest in bringing Wade back?

  16. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    I believe Buehrle can easily getta 3 yr guaranteed deal out of an NL team if he desires to jump leagues, which I believe he will do. The guy aint a fossil. Noesi has no business being in the Yankee pen if they are trying to build his innings. If he doesn’t crack the Yankee rotation outta ST, he belongs in the minors assa SP. Hughes in the pen smacks of Chamberlain\ ruining another young SP, and decreasing his trade value. If it’s me, and Hughes is healthy, he either merits being in the Yankee Rotation outta ST, or I deal him.

  17. DaSaint007 December 3rd, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Good point Mogul. I forgot about him.

    And that’s where the problems start: Mo, D-Rob, Soriano, Logan, and Wade would only leave room for 1 additional BP arm, most likely either Hughes or Noesi, but no room for an additional lefty. Do you sacrifice Wade for that lefty?

    Garcia is the insurance policy in case they don’t add another SP via FA or trade. Without that additional arm, 2 spots will be available. If a trade or signing is made, then only 1 slot remains…if they hold on to Garcia.

  18. DaSaint007 December 3rd, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    My wish list:
    SP: CC, AJ, Buehrle, Hughes, Nova
    RP: Mariano, Robertson, Joba, Wade, Sean Marshall, Logan

    Trades: Soriano, Garcia

  19. dogface December 3rd, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    dogface – if he can come up as an OF rather than a 1B… there is room for him in 2 years. he seems to like hitting

    ========================

    He’s 30 years old and strikes out once for every 3 AB’s and doesn’t walk. Lot of thump at the AAA level, but I don’t imagine it would translate well in the bigs.

  20. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Saint, if it’s a wish list, can you trade AJ instead of Garcia, the guy they just re-signed and gave a raise to???

  21. Baseball Mogul December 3rd, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Saint-

    Don’t forget Chamberlain in mid-season, too.

    Granted, there will be injuries, but this is why I had a problem bringing Garcia back- it blocks Noesi from the beginning. Why give him innings in the winter, make him your long man (barring ST injury to a starter), and then have him pitch only 3+ in a spot start because he is no longer stretched out? The Yankees also have Mitchell and Phelps on the 40 man, with Warren and the B’s knocking on the door. Why not make Mitchell or Phelps the long man and see if Noesi can start?

    I’m don’t think the Yankees necessarily need the second lefty- they’ve gone 2 years without one and been OK.

    In the end, I’d say a bunch of these arms are dealt. Either in a package for an established starter, in exchange for some upper level OF help (like the Bruney trade for the Rule 5 pick that acquired Hoffmann), or both. As Chad pointed out recently, Cash has been really quiet on the trade front for a year…

  22. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    I like Buerle…..but he’s a 3 or 4 starter on a championship level team. I don’t think the Yanks need that…..especially not for 15+million per season. He’s being overvalued in the market IMO……the Yanks need to add a legit 2 starter or just stick with what they have IMO…..they have enough depth and their pen is strong enough that adding a solid mid rotation guy like Buerle is really unwarranted.

  23. dogface December 3rd, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Yanks need to add a legit 2 starter or just stick with what they have IMO…..they have enough depth and their pen is strong enough that adding a solid mid rotation guy like Buerle is really unwarranted

    ========================

    Agreed. Question is what Cashman is willing to give or a legit #2. It’ll almost certainly require one of his top 3 prospects, which I don’t think he wants to do.

  24. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    4/60 is the prediction on Buerle I’ve seen around…….id be interested at 2 years but the Nats will probably give him that when Wilson signs elsewhere.

  25. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    ‘It’ll almost certainly require one of his top 3 prospects, which I don’t think he wants to do”.

    Yea….my guess is he’s waiting to see if Williams gets real on Danks and if he can get him without parting with the top guys…..also they may be trying to decide how they value CJ…..he’s been a #2 at least in the reg. Season the last two seasons…..there is probably a price where they would pounce on him I bet…..

  26. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    The last two seasons Wilson has been a better pitcher than anyone mentioned as a trade target…..the questions are how much will he cost……and do they think he can sustain it for moat of the life of the contract.

  27. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Jon Morosi @jonmorosi

    #Yankees,#Tigers and #Marlins have been most interested clubs in Yoenis Cespedes,according to an exec familiar with international market.

    1 hour ago via web

  28. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    **** BREAKING NEWS ****

    Jerry Sandusky has suspended his presidential campaign and will not participate in the next scheduled debate.

    **** DEVELOPING STORY ****

  29. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    No politics please ;)

  30. sammiejohnson December 3rd, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2011 at 12:58 pm
    If Vazquez can play OF, so can Montero. I still say the speed issue regarding Montero and RF is ridiculous.

    _______________________________________

    It probably has something to due with the fact that this is not Little League. In this league you can not just take the fat kid that can hit but not run and stick him out in (inna) RF and hope no one hits the ball there. Gotta itta?

  31. jacksquat December 3rd, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    and Garcia is not an “insurance policy”.

  32. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    If anybody can play RF then just sign Prince and stick him out there…..it’s not that easy.

  33. jacksquat December 3rd, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Aw, Herman “Sugar” Cain dropped out.

  34. pat December 3rd, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Ken_RosenthalKen Rosenthal
    Source: Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish likely to be posted after winter meetings. #MLB

  35. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal

    Source: Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish likely to be posted after winter meetings. #MLB

  36. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Pat quicker of the twitter trigger.

  37. jacksquat December 3rd, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    What is the source?

  38. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    “What is the source?”

    Jon Heyman?

  39. spidanyc December 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Yu Darvish is expected to post after Winter Meetings, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com.
    There was some speculation that Darvish would consider postponement from the majors in order to avoid having his MLB salary counted towards an impending divorce settlement, but his posting period is now expected to take place sometime after next week’s meetings. The Yankees, Nationals, and Blue Jays remain potential landing spots for Darvish, who could require $50 million in exclusive negotiating rights.

  40. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal 8 mins Approach of #RedSox will be interesting. Valentine “loves” Darvish after managing against him Japan, source said. #MLB

    Ken_Rosenthal 8 mins More from source: Darvish posting not 100 percent. Still working out issues with club. Divorce not a factor. MORE #MLB

    Ken_Rosenthal 17 mins Some teams see Darvish as best avail SP outside of trade. #BlueJays’ Anthopoulos and #Rangers’ Daniels saw him in Japan this season. #MLB

  41. spidanyc December 3rd, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Time for the Yankees to go out and get their #2 starter (Darvish).

  42. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    I hope Mrs. Yu Darvish also posts. :oops:

  43. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    “Time for the Yankees to go out and get their #2 starter (Darvish).”

    How do we know that’s what he will be?

  44. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Darvish playing Hamlet will have an effect on the Winter Meetings, ie the trade market. Not only does his potential availability affect the market for starting pitching, but it also affects team’s willingness to deal their “assets” for pitching, because if a team does sign Darvish, those same players could be then used for other deals.

    This blind auction posting stuff is a ridiculous process.

  45. tucker December 3rd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Do the Yanks sign Cespedes considering the pending IFA limitations? If they do, start him at AAA and see how he performs.

  46. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    ‘Tis the season for Yuletide optimism, not pessimism/skepticism!

    Get on board or Yule be sorry!

  47. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Dahvish is gonna be an ace! That better?

    Joe,

    I agree…..it could stall things a bit on the pitching front.

  48. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Nick,
    What’s the spread for Dawgs vs LSU?

  49. yanks61 December 3rd, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    I have no idea if Montero is capable of playing the OF or not. Could be he’s just not athletic enough. But the foot speed issue does puzzle me.

    Elston Howard played loads of games in the far bigger, more difficult LF of the old YS (YS1) on a bunch of championship teams. He was one of the slowest players I’ve ever seen on the Yankees. This is from Wikipedia:

    ” Howard was also known to be very slow afoot. This caused Yankee manager, Casey Stengel to say, “Well, when they finally get me a (n word), I get the only one who can’t run.”

    Believe me, he couldn’t run. Now we’re saying that Montero is so much slower than even Howard that he can’t play the friendly RF portion of the OF?

    Yes, it may be that Elston had experience there in the mL before coming up (I don’t know.) And yes, it might mean another 1/2 year or more at AAA for Montero to grasp the basics, and yes, he could be too klutzy to ever get the hang of it. But unless he’s an absolute tortoise, how can he not be ‘fast’ enough to play RF?

    Well, maybe it’s DH and a few years from now, 1B for Jesus, because the Yanks don’t experiment along those lines. But I’d like to get a read on just how fast/slow he is. There must be a record somewhere of Ellie’s speed or lack of speed too. It would be interesting to find out.

  50. Nick in SF December 3rd, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    LSU -14

  51. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Thanks, Nick.

  52. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Go, Dawgs! All commerce (except for bars) has ceased in Georgia, at least my part of it.

  53. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    This crap with the posting rules will take the “winning team” to within about 3 weeks of ST. Then, if they don’t agree on a contract, who gets screwed?

    And, no….Vazquez can’t play the outfield. He can barely play first base and I’d rather have Jorge Posada playing 3rd base.

  54. Pat M. December 3rd, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    GB…..Isn’t Darvish able to just walk away from Japan after this upcoming season ????

  55. RadioKev December 3rd, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Surely there is some team in baseball that is interested/can use Jorge Vazquez. Can we get anything in return for the guy if we won’t use him?

  56. LGY December 3rd, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    This crap with the posting rules will take the “winning team” to within about 3 weeks of ST

    ——–

    Might be part of Darvish’s negotiation strategy.

  57. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Pat,

    Not sure. Thought it was that he would be a FA after 10 years unless agreed in a contract. Right now, baseball is being held hostage by Darvish, the BS with the Cuban players, Wilson and the agents like Boras who enjoy playing chicken. Personally, I think the only players that Cashman has any real interest in are the Cuban outfielders.

  58. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    A team like the Dodgers or Padres would be more likely than others to have interest in a player like Vazquez. They need first basemen, have only a little money and a need for any offense they can get.

  59. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Hi everyone,

    Long time no see!!!, my two cents:

    I hate the new CBA agreement, baseball should be about winning not about parity. I’ll say that the yanks go all out on Darvish.

  60. LGY December 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Kuroda, who turns 37 on Feb. 10, is considering all options, the source said, including major-league teams regardless of location as well as the Hiroshima Carp, his former club in Japan.

    http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/....._post=true

  61. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Hey, luis!

  62. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Hi Tom!!,

    What’s up?, been out for a while, but planning to stay tuned for the winter meetings!!

  63. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Perfect. Go after another aging back of the rotation pitcher who will only begrudgingly pitch for you if he gets what he wants. Not interested in Kuroda.

  64. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    luis,
    Nothing going on except improbable or impossible trade ideas, people spending NYY money like the federal government, and people trying to tell us how poor the Yankees’ rotation is. Nothing new!

  65. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    GB7,

    Why the cuban outfielders?, could you please explain?, i know we are a little short on position players as of right now, but Mason Williams seems like the real deal, Slade Heathcott could make it as well.

    With this new CBA, getting talent is going to get harder for the Yankees

  66. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Tom,

    It seems that i haven’t missed much!! LOL

  67. dogface December 3rd, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    With this new CBA, getting talent is going to get harder for the Yankees

    ===========================

    With this new CBA, getting talent is going to get harder for everybody.

  68. LGY December 3rd, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Perfect. Go after another aging back of the rotation pitcher who will only begrudgingly pitch for you if he gets what he wants. Not interested in Kuroda.

    ——

    What about Kuroda’s performance makes him a back of rotation pitcher?

  69. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Tom,

    To be fair, i think Cash has done very well so far….Keeping CC off the FA market, resigning Garcia, not giving up to crazy demands!!. Hopefully he brings back Chavez and tries to land Darvish

  70. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    dogface December 3rd, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    True, but IFA market was the only venue left where they could use their finantial muscle without restriction, all in the name of parity.

  71. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    luis,
    Cashman’s doing fine without lohud advice, and I expect him to keep it up. GB7, Kuroda for one year would be fine with me.

  72. lounge lizard December 3rd, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Elston Howard lettered in four sports in high school, getting multiple scholarship offers. He was known for his jump shot in basketball, ran the quarter mile in track, and, in football, played end and ran back kickoffs and punts. In the bio of Howard by his wife, one of his high school opponents is quoted as saying that the laughs at the stories of Howard being slow.

    http://books.google.com/books?.....38;f=false

    Montero is not remotely that kind of athlete. Not only is he extremely slow but he’d be a danger to himself trying to dive for a flyball. Not happening.

  73. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Id rather have 1 or 2 years of Kuroda than 4 of Buerle……but I don’t really see either as a need or a fit because they have plenty of mid rotation candidates and depth. They need an impact guy or nothing at all to me.

  74. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    At first, I thought Cash and the Yanks should just say no to anymore Japanese pitchers. However, after further consideration, and seeing the new CBA, I’ve changed my mind.

    I think they should take a shot at Darvish. Not that he’s suddenly gotten better, or my opinion of what the Yankees already have has changed. No, what did it was the new CBA, and thinking that this might be the last time where the Yanks can directly use their financial muscle to get a quality starter. That is, of course, of the scouts really believe in his ability, in a way that is different from what was the case with Igawa, or even DiceK. Because, between the posting fee and the coin it will take to sign him, it’s going to divert resources.

    The Cuban OFs? If the scouts like what they see, take a spin. In this case, there’s no posting process, so it’s a lot simpler. Same thought, it might be the last time for a while that Yankee dollars can speak. Besides, it will be a few years, at best, before Williams and Heathcott will be ready.

    It’s all about maximizing your potential to acquire top notch talent. Unless Cash can do a deal for a Kershaw, or King Felix, say, then I go for Darvish, caveats and all. Heck, it’s only money, and you can’t take it with you.

  75. 108 stitches December 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Cashman is trying to get the team younger. At 37 who needs Kuroda with at least a 2-3 year contract ? The Yankees have their albatross contract already in Burnett.

  76. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    luis,
    Cashman’s doing fine without lohud advice, and I expect him to keep it up. GB7, Kuroda for one year would be fine with me.

    =====================================

    Kuroda??, as of right now our rotation is comprised of CC,Nova, Burnett,Hughes,Garcia and Noesi fighting for the last three spots, The only way i see Kuroda making sense is that we trade Burnett, and only if we miss on Darvish. Plus take in to account that we will have Warren, Phelps, Banuelos and Betances in triple A waiting on the wings, in fact, maybe we don’t even need Darvish

  77. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Joe from LI,

    Very good post, props, very well summarized

  78. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    “Heck, it’s only money, and you can’t take it with you.”

    Who is a safer bet …..Darvish or Wilson? Love the idea of Darvish and what he could be…..but if the money is the same and is 80-100 million bucks then to me it would but somewhat difficult to choose a guy that’s never pitched in the big leagues over a guy that has been really pretty good the last two seasons in an extreme hitters park in the AL.

  79. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    blake December 3rd, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Very good point, but Wilson’s contract would count for the Luxury tax, while the posting fee won’t, so that makes Darvish cheaper, besides he is younger.

  80. Joe from Long Island December 3rd, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    luis – thank you.

    blake – I have never liked CJ Wilson. Not his talent, nor what I’ve seen of his personality, albeit very limited. He strikes me as another version of Ed Whitson. I know that might be harsh, but, it’s how I feel.

    Anyway, we’ve got company coming over in a bit, so I’ll have to sign off.

    Have a good night, everybody. Be well. See you all tomorrow.

  81. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    luis,
    You haven’t missed a stride! You can spend Yankee money as well as anyone. Let Cashman decide. I’d be amazed if he does not have a trick or two up his sleeve over the next month or so.

  82. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Good night Joe and thank you.

  83. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Luis,

    True…..but if the money is comparable…..say the posting fee is 45-50 million and then a 50 million dollar contract……then that’s still a 100 million dollar commitment whereas Wilson may only be 80 or 85……Darvish is younger……but to me he’s much more of a risk…….its not my money……but I were Cashman I would have a serious conversation with Ayala about what happens if Darvish busts……how much will it affect the operating payroll? Will Hal be comfortable eating the money to a large extent if it doesn’t work out and then let Cashman operate as usual and spend elsewhere? I doubt that would be the case (see AJ Burnett). If Hal is cool win the risk then fine……but it is a risk…..and for the money they are talking about its a big one.

  84. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    What does Kuroda do that makes him anything more than a back of the rotation starter? If he is more, then stick Garcia up front. He’s at least as good. NYYs don’y need another older starter. They have two years before Burnett’s contract is up. If they keep adding pitchers like Kuroda to the mix, where will they be fitting in the likes of Banuelos, Betances, Marshall, Brett Mitchell and the others? To use George M. S’s favorite phrase, it’s time to start letting the young elephants into the tent.”

  85. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Tom,

    LOL!!!, we all have our little GM inside!!, but you are right on the money, Cashman will do the right thing, whatever those moves may be. ;)

  86. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Night Joe!

  87. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Ayala = Hal

  88. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Sorry, that’s brett Marshall and Bryan Mitchell.

  89. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    GB7,
    If I had my druthers, I wouldn’t trade for or buy a pitcher. If one of the guys we have goes down, there’s another ready to try. “Let God sort’em out”.

  90. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Blake,

    Again very good points, but as Joe pointed out, this could be the last time the Yankees can flex their muscle in a few years. I also don’t like Wilson’s demeanor, i could be wrong though. I know it’s a risk, and i am sure that in order for Darvish to be on pinstripes, Hal has to be on the boat, after a very complete scouting of the kid.

  91. LGY December 3rd, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    What does Kuroda do that makes him anything more than a back of the rotation starter? If he is more, then stick Garcia up front. He’s at least as good. NYYs don’y need another older starter.

    ——————————

    Hiroki Kuroda past 2 seasons

    398 IP, 3.23 ERA, 117 ERA+, 3.30 SO/BB

  92. LGY December 3rd, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    If they can get Kuroda on a 1 year deal like he signed last season it’s a good move.

  93. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Tom, the Yankees have a combination of any 5 pitchers that could fill that #5 spot in the rotation in 2012….Noesi, Warren, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, and later in the year, Stoneburner or Hall could be ready. Between those 5-6 names, they can win 12 games in NY. That’s all they need from that spot. Clogging up the pitching roster with more 37 year old back end starters is a waste.

  94. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Then you sign Kuroda to pitch for your fantasy team. The chances of him being an aL East type pitcher is slim. Let him pitch for Boston and Valentine can turn him into a 25 game winner.

  95. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    What makes you think Kuroda’s only signing a one year deal? He’s not buying time to rebuild his career.

  96. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Luis,

    The new rules wont affect Japanese players…..that process will remain the same to my knowledge. I understand the “last chance” argument……but I don’t think that should trump the normal evaluations process.

  97. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    GB7,
    I think a few of them could be more than a #5, but we’ve got to find out before we spend $100 million on a phantom.

  98. LGY December 3rd, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    For comparison to some other names thrown around here.

    2010-2011

    Edwin Jackson (pukes): 409 IP, 4.14 ERA, 100 ERA+, 2.35 SO/BB

    Matt Garza: 403 IP, 3.62 ERA, 108 ERA+, 2.75 SO/BB

    John Danks: 383 IP, 3.99 ERA, 106 ERA+, 2.56 SO/BB

    Mark Buehrle: 416 IP, 3.94 ERA, 108 ERA+, 2.21 SO/BB

    “The chances of him being an aL East type pitcher is slim.”

    Why’s that?

  99. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    “but I don’t think that should trump the normal evaluations process”

    Spot on Blake

  100. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    Tom,

    Very good point.

  101. jacksquat December 3rd, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    I’d say the chance of Darvish being a “bust” are very, very small. He might not be an ace, but bust, no. He sits 94-96, even in the postseason after throwing 230 innings, has a very low walk rate, is young and in very good phsysical condition, and has been the model of consistency for the past 5 years. I think people worry too much about the slight mound and ball differences, and going from a 6-man rotation to a 5-man. Given his talent level and physical condition I don’t think those are worries. And even Matsuzaka is not a good comp, Yu is in a class above him.

    The biggest difference between Japanese baseball and MLB is definitely the quality of the hitters. That’s where you have to judge how his stuff might translate over to MLB.

  102. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 5:07 pm
    GB7,
    I think a few of them could be more than a #5, but we’ve got to find out before we spend $100 million on a phantom.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Marshall and Bryan Mitchell have a good chance of being premium pitchers and at least one of Noesi and the other 3 should be no worse than pretty decent, though, I think the Yanks plan to move Hall (left handed) and DJ Mitchell to the pen. Mitchell is a severe ground ball pitcher, along the lines of Wang.

  103. luis December 3rd, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Got to go, good night everyone!!

  104. blake December 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    “The biggest difference between Japanese baseball and MLB is definitely the quality of the hitters”

    Yea…but that’s kinda an important difference…..the strike zone is also white different. He looks like the real deal on youtube…..we will have to let the Ya ks make the call though.

  105. tomingeorgia December 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    GB7,
    Again, I’ll say I envy those of you all who have seen these milb guys with your own eyes, so I’ll ask a question: If the Mitchell who’s “an extreme ground ball pitcher” be moved to the pen? Can’t last many innings, or what?

  106. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    GA PBS has a great showing of 50s and 60s R&R with Mason Williams (Classical Gas), The Ventures, and the names from that era. Not just the music but, videos and recent tour vids. great stuff.

  107. GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Tom,

    I believe they feel that with all of the arms in the system, Mitchell fits better in the Noesi of (2011) spot. He throws hard, but not a real strikeout pitcher and control gets iffy at times.

  108. DONNYBROOK December 3rd, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    As far as trading for a 2 Slot or 3 Slot SP, I believe another factor Cashman is pondering is whether the Extra Wild Card is gonna be added next season. If it is, Cashman may feel his rotation is adequate to at Least have the Yanks in contention till July 31. At that point, Cashman can deal for a SP if he feels the Yanks need one.
    I believe the Darvish info has been intentionally leaked, in order to prevent possible Darvish bidders from filling their SP needs at the Winter Meetings next week. This is absolutely GREAT news for the Yankees. Having Darvish as an option gives Cashman leverage regarding Danks, Garza, Wilson, Buehrle, etc. if he wants to got that way. IMO Cashman needs to talk like a Dutch Uncle to Hal and hammer home the fact that this is the last time the current rules will be in force regarding this process, and that a rotation of CC, Darvish, Nova, Hughes, with Garcia and AJ + The Killer B’s on the horizon, would have the Yanks set up for another Dynasty run.

  109. yankzfan1 December 3rd, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    It is amazing how Vazquez never gets his shot when all he does is produce!! Crush in ST, crush all year in AAA, crush in Winter ball every year, crush in the WBC. And Iam sick of people who have no idea, think they have all the answers! I am sick of hearing Chato cant hit ML hitting! That is all he has done since he was signed in the AAA Mexican Lg when he was 16. There are many pitchers in that league with ML exp. Many are average ML pitchers. And at Scranton he hit against Volquez, hit against Chapman, hit a bomb off the scoreboard on Peavy, two homers in one game against Vance Worley, last year a bomb over the scoreboard out of the stadium for a walk off against ROY Kimbrel. And the Winter league has a lot of ML exp pitchers where he is hitting .361, and leading the whole Caribbean with 15hr and 50rbi. He has a 10g hitting streak hitting .474, .525obp, .816slg, and has hit in 31 of his last 33!! Video game numbers. Then I hear, he cant hit a curve ball!! The Mex lg is an off speed league. He can hit any fastball, or curve. Yes, he does strike out a lot. So does Granderson, with a .260′s avg and they were talking MVP for him. If you look, every time someone got hurt, and someone else got called up, Jorge went in a slump and started striking out a lot. He was discusted that players like Pena get called up and not him. He broke the franchise record for HR’s, 93rbi’s. He at least earned a callup to get a shot in Sept. No, he can not play RF, but he should at least get the last bench spot and not Chavez who is always hurt, and 2hr all year last year and 2mil cheaper. It doesnt make sence. Insain power off of the bench!! Yankees, please trade Chato so he can be a star!!!! Peace V

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