Here we go again: Day Two in Dallas
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 06, 2011 
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Brian Cashman has arrived. The top Yankees brass are finally in Dallas, and the Winter Meetings are in full swing. It’s Day Two, and the Yankees are still positioning themselves as a team with no pressing needs and no sense of panic.
But things can change, and Cashman will continue to have his conversations with agents and opposing general managers.
As for the writers, there’s a BBWAA meeting this morning, but otherwise things are the same as ever: A lot of waiting and talking and looking for some sort of news.
Welcome to Day Two.
Hope you’re having fun in Dallas Chad.
I have never seen Women who look better in jeans on the average than there.
I know you’re too busy, right ?
Just take a walk around any Mall. You’ll fall in love a thousand times a day.
Romine will be playing in AAA this year, unless somebody gets hurt. Romine would be moved for more than a 1 year pitcher. The Yanks add a couple of AAA pitchers like Warren and Phelps or Mitchell and someone else a team needs and get someone a lot more valuable than a 1 year pitcher. This isn’t the Buhner for Phelps or Drabek for Rhoden days anymore. Danks would be nice but not a necessity.
I’m with you GB. No way you give up Romine for a rental. Way too much value and a poor use of resources.
What are some examples of a player you can get for Romine, Warren, and Phelps?
Danks is a lefty in prime years. I prefer him over Wilson just on talent and makeup all else being equal. I look at him as Jon Lester Lite and I think he would be a massive upgrade in this rotation.
Hello, Congratulations on your excellent job well done
It’s great. good luck.
horoscope
Instead of being a punk, start acting like you have some common sense. They’ll get a Hell of a lot more than one year. Danks may not even be an A type FA next year. Which means, dumbass, NYYs get zip after pissing away three prospects.
This posts says that the Yankees don’t have any pressing needs? How about a legit #2 pitcher?
IMO the real issue re: Danks is wether the WS would include a negotiating window to extend him ?
W/O that his value is diminished and the return to the WS is much lower.
If I were the Yankees I would not be interested in him w/o being able to extend him.
Ok…
So what are some examples or targets that are a he’ll of a lot more?
How did ny do without a so-called #2 in 2011? It wasn’t starting pitching that knocked NY out of the playoffs.
If Williams wont trade Danks for Romine then why would some other team trade a better player for him?
Save Romine for something better.
Sign Cespedes. I don’t even care if they sign Darvish; I’m ready to go to war with C and Nova/Hughes/Noesi plus Freddy & AJ, maybe re-sign Colon for long work. Dellin/Manny a little closer to realization; could definitely see one, or both, having a great first half and forcing a promotion in the second half. If it’s Manny, there’s your lefty without further adieu. If it’s Dellin, he’s dynamite against LHB.
I’m not feeling the urgency to go out and get anyone, unless it’s just one of those things where something insanely right becomes available, and it’s so dramatically not remotely a lateral move. Since that’s not going to happen, nor is it even necessary, I’ll roll with what’s here, because what’s here is deep and potentially very good.
I like going with deep, veteran lineup and some young, live arms. That’s what I want to see Cash do.
At the end of the day, what is Danks or Garza’s value. Before you pull off a trade I think Cashman would like to see where Wilson’s contract comes in. Seems like it will be done lower than expected. Otherwise Wilson set the mark. You can make an arguement those guys aren’t in CCs class so that is irrelevant, but both those guys are going to definitely want CJ Wilson type money to extend.
“Save Romine for something better.”
Like what?
If the White Sox hadn’t been so busy signing and picking up ill-advised contracts like Dunn, rios and Peavy, they wouldn’t need to unload them a year later. Why should the yankees continue bailing out stupid owners and GMs and have to rebuild their farms, too. They either unload the contracts for nothing more than relief or they can shove it and sink.
If Williams wont trade Danks for Romine then why would some other team trade a better player for him?
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Because the Yankees are going to entice some other team by sweetening the package with Corban Joseph, Jorge Vazquez, and Luis Nunez.
spidanyc December 6th, 2011 at 9:20 am
This posts says that the Yankees don’t have any pressing needs? How about a legit #2 pitcher?
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I caught that to. It’s the daily story line out there and it has been for several days or weeks. As I posted awhile back who really knows what to believe, it maybe the truth, it may be disinformation, or it maybe Brian setting up a CYA if the team stays pat and doesn’t get it done again next year as the other storyline of unreasonable costs overlays this. I don’t know what the split is here maybe 50/50, but some believe the current pitching staff is OK, others like myself don’t think it is. The argument goes further to the next level, how much do you give up to get something.
I do believe they do want to upgrade the pitching and a few other areas, just don’t have much confidence they will get it done. There are other teams out there that will bellyup to the bar for the market prices today. I don’t know what that leaves out there after that.
Actually that’s too much.
What if Jeter, Eduardo Nunez, and Pena get hurt?
Who are we left with at SS????
Gotta keep Luis Nunez out of any deal for a #2.
Good morning-
“Here we go again” What a perfect title for Chad’s new post.
I suspect the big noise today will be FA deals and not major trades.
Pujols Cardinals or Marlins?
Buehrle Nats or Marlins?-3 years@14M/year +NTC should do it.
CJ Wilson-Angels or return to Rangers?
Fielder-Brewers now out? Cubs? Mariner’s serious?
John Danks again?
Asking price is still too high for Cashman. Might not want to extend Danks to a lucrative, especially back-loaded contract, due to the new CBA agreement and the luxury tax ramifications from 2014 thru 2016.
Think small-Complete list of nontenders will come out December 12th.
Phranchise December 6th, 2011 at 9:28 am
At the end of the day, what is Danks or Garza’s value. Before you pull off a trade I think Cashman would like to see where Wilson’s contract comes in. Seems like it will be done lower than expected. Otherwise Wilson set the mark. You can make an arguement those guys aren’t in CCs class so that is irrelevant, but both those guys are going to definitely want CJ Wilson type money to extend.
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Just my opinion, but I think Wilson gets his $100M.
Why should the yankees continue bailing out stupid owners and GMs and have to rebuild their farms, too.
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Why should another team bail out the Yankees because they have been unable to sign or develop a #2?
Pitching didn’t lose the Yankees that series for sure, but needing to pitch Garcia against any big time offense is a disaster. You can’t expect to win a series in which Garcia and then AJ needs to both pitch. Especially in a 5 game set you need another guy capable of shutting down a team. Next year, Nova could pull a Hughes year 2 and regress. Hughes could be that guy, but would need to improve substantially. AJ has had many chances and trust is out the door. And then Garcia or Noesi. A Danks or Garza especially with the gem Garza thru against the Sox in the playoffs makes me trust those guys more than what we have past CC
I don’t see how Danks has anything to do with Dunn or Rios……if he wanted to stay then they’d probably like to sign him. The fact that they are shopping him would indicate that he wants out anyway.
“Something Better” is an extremely subjective assessment. The White Sox will take the best player(s) offered for Danks based on THEIR opinion.
That’s where the myth of a “Yankee Tax” comes from. We generally view the Yanks’ prospects in a much more favorable light than other teams do. To us Romine + Noesi for Danks is much too high of a price. To the White Sox, it might not be enough.
The fact that he can be a FA after 2012 has to be factored into any offer and would keep me from including Romine OR Noesi…. but I would do Murphy, Warren/Phelps and a lesser piece.
# blake December 6th, 2011 at 9:30 am
“Save Romine for something better.”
Like what?
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Something that isn’t a rental. Hold the piss until after the ASB & see if the Little Lefty can’t make everyone here pining for Danks forget him? Wait, at least, until the TD, to confirm that we even need a rotation upgrade?
No way would I include Murphy for John Danks. Murphy is one of the better bats we have and allegedly, his catching has improved.
Romine needs to keep up his production for a full season next year to get a player more valuable than Danks.
Yankee minor league talent is almost in a logjam and needs a place to go, either the big team (not enough openings) or via trade. Cashman is too smart to trade away multiple talent for 1 year rentals.
But the excess needs to be weened. Montero, Romine, Cervelli. One will go. Plus remember there is Sanchez and others behind them.
Or some of the pitchers GB mentioned, like Warren, Phelps, Mitchell. With Manny and Dellin behind them technically, but ahead of them talent wise, one or more of that trio becomes expendable.
Apparently, no team has offered anything close to what Williams was asking for Danks, and nobody will. They won’t get 4 players for him, either.
LGY, Romine’s production where? In AAA?
Slow moving in Dallas until the ice is broken with the signing of Pujols, Fielder, and the supposed marquee pitcher Wilson.
No need for the Yankees to start breaking up the farm system just to satisfy the thirst of those looking for change for the sake of change. Cashman is in the driver’s seat. No deal unless it’s a sensible deal. Cashman may just wait until next Monday to see who gets non tendered.
Pruf-Good morning.
Here’s some info on Cespedes. Jorge Sol
By Frank Russo ~ December 4th, 2011. Filed under: Digest Contributors, New York Yankees, Rumor Mill.
In talking to someone in the Yankees organization, I was told they prefer Cuban defector Jorge Soler over Yoennis Cespedes.
Soler is a 19-year-old outfielder who defected earlier this year.
Mike Silva adds:
In doing research about Soler, Adam Kilgore of Nationals Journal described Soler as “an athletic, 6-foot-3 outfielder who can play center field but will likely end up as a corner outfielder.” He goes on to say he has “high upside” and the “potential to hit for power.”
Nationals Director of International Scouting Johnny DiPuglia also said “he’s got a Hanley Ramirez-type body. Plus arm. Plus bat speed. He’s a good kid, a good-energy kid.”
Other teams rumored to be interested in Soler are the Cubs, Nationals, and Indians.
Cespedes has been the international darling of baseball- that is until Yu Darvish becomes available – but there are some teams that are concerned about how “natural” he is. Don’t be surprised if he is asked for his medical records and to take a drug test.
According to ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick, “the buzz in baseball circles is that it will take north of $50 million to sign Cespedes.” Pirates Latin American Scouting Director Rene Gayo was quoted as saying that Soler “not in the same class” as Cespedes.
I still don’t think Cashman should do a GDdam thing unless a hitter drops in his lap. Let these other GMs and “franchises” rot with their decade of shatty contracts and decisions. This is the year when we should bleed our kids into the spotlight, and our next dynasty starts in 2014 (which unfortunately is around the time when will have to have groomed our next crop of ML level position players)
*Soler*
Romine has been in AAA for about five minutes.
GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2011 at 9:26 am
How did ny do without a so-called #2 in 2011? It wasn?t starting pitching that knocked NY out of the playoffs.
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So I guess you’re content with the same team as last year and another 1st round exit. Yes, the offense sucked in the playoffs, but the pitching wasn’t that much better. I rather take my chance with guys like AROD and Tex stepping it up over guys like AJ Burnett and Freddy Garcia.
We don’t need to make any moves unless they are the right moves. Weeding out the excess in a deal that doesn’t warrant it is counterproductive.
“Something that isn’t a rental. Hold the piss until after the ASB & see if the Rear Lefty can’t make everyone here pining for Danks forget him?”
See that’s one reason id like for them to strengthen the rotation if they can……to prevent them from feeling the need to bring up Banuelos or Betances before they are ready.
blake, doubt they will do that. That is why the so-called excess is valuable. Just pitch Noesi and bide your time. Williams currently will want a haul for Danks. No way we have to move on this and again especially not for a one year rental.
“Weeding out the excess in a deal that doesn’t warrant it is counterproductive.”
So is hanging on to excess for some pie in the sky trade opportunity that may never happen……the core guys on the team aren’t getting any younger and this may be Rivera’s last year.
Romine has already caught a few ML games and looked perty darned good doing it. He can also hit (situational, doubles). I guarantee that if not traded, Romine will be up for the Yankees this season.
He is ML ready to catch, and that’s a high value.
spidanyc December 6th, 2011 at 9:46 am
GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2011 at 9:26 am
How did ny do without a so-called #2 in 2011? It wasn?t starting pitching that knocked NY out of the playoffs.
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So I guess you’re content with the same team as last year and another 1st round exit. Yes, the offense sucked in the playoffs, but the pitching wasn’t that much better. I rather take my chance with guys like AROD and Tex stepping it up over guys like AJ Burnett and Freddy Garcia.
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This makes no more sense than your trade proposals of yesterday.
Nationals Director of International Scouting Johnny DiPuglia also said “he’s got a Hanley Ramirez-type body. Plus arm. Plus bat speed. He’s a good kid, a good-energy kid.”
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Morning to you, Trader. That’s a glitzy comp right there. I’m all for them signing Soler, & there seem to be enough reports to indicate they like him “better” than Cespedes, but I wouldn’t mind seeing them sign the older kid to maybe give the OF a lift sooner. Soler’s further off, according to reports and seven years younger. Stash him in A ball and see if the other kid can help us, like, this season. We could use an OF arm attached to a dynamic player.
If they don’t like him relative to the $$$, then they’ll pass, I’m sure. Heard this morning they’re front-runners for him (Cespedes). Who knows. Like the song says, ‘believe half of what you see, son, & none of what you hear.’
Let’s say AJ continues to be terrible…..Garcia takes a step back……Hughes doesn’t improve……Nova has a sophomore slump…..etc….the Yankees pitching did a nice job last year but aside from Hughes a lot of things fell right and Im not sure how likely that is to happen again. Colon threw a lot of quality innings that somebody is going to have to throw……what Im saying is Id rather not have a situation where some things break bad and they feel the need to put Banuelos in the rotation before he’s ready for it. He needs a full season at AAA next year.
blake, like with Javy? We won in 2009 without any such move. But we won; we should have the luxury, as a result for doing what is best for this team in the present and future.
Why do we need to make some seemingly pre-emptive strike for its own sake, and why right now?
No, we are not hanging on to “excess” for some pie in the sky deal, as much as seeing how the AAA boys develop, so that we can make wiser choices. Those players are still evolving. Their value may increase, plus who knows what comes down the pike. Why are you so hyped up for a one year rental?
Yankeefem-
The more I’m hearing about Noesi in the Dominican winter league-control, velocity, the more I think he might just supplant Nova as the “current” Yankee #2,given the opportunity. Not in favor of including him in a deal for Danks.
108 stitches-
Cashman may just wait until next Monday to see who gets non tendered.
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That’s my thinking. Won’t find a #2 starter, but might find a useful piece. Gorzelanny, Schumaker, Spillborghs, all mentiond as possible non tenders.
Fem
Yes. Romine has fallen off significantly the past two seasons in the second half.
Unless 5 pitchers get hurt in 2012, there’s no reason to bring up Banuelos and Betances up before they’re ready. There are at least 3 starting pitchers ahead of them.
“Why are you so hyped up for a one year rental?”
Im not hyped up….just talking hot stove because im bored at the moment and I view the situation differently than you. Respect your opinion and you’re entitled to it.
Blake, I don’t want a hair on those kids’ heads touched until they are ready, but what if they put up an irrefutable first half where it all comes together? They’re going to get a look up here, if that happens, and although not ideal to interrupt them, if they’re going great guns to such a degree, they’re going to impact how Cashman approaches the TD and rotation for stretch drive.
spidanyc December 6th, 2011 at 9:46 am
GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2011 at 9:26 am
How did ny do without a so-called #2 in 2011? It wasn?t starting pitching that knocked NY out of the playoffs.
———————————————————————————————————————-
So I guess you’re content with the same team as last year and another 1st round exit. Yes, the offense sucked in the playoffs, but the pitching wasn’t that much better. I rather take my chance with guys like AROD and Tex stepping it up over guys like AJ Burnett and Freddy Garcia.
????????????????????????????????????????-
This makes no more sense than your trade proposals of yesterday.
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Do explain please
MLBTR’s Free Agent Tracker:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012-mlb-free-agents
Marlins willing to go 10 years for Pujols?
With no state income tax in FL and the endorsement potential of Miami, he could turn lower contract dollars into more money in the long term.
JAP,
I think they need innings….because I don’t want them coming up and being put on some innings restriction etc……and neither of them were ready last year. Manny needs to dial back in him command and learn to challenge hitters and trust his stuff…..
LGY, actually he has concussion issues, so that might be a concern, but he actually hit very well. The numbers aren’t really reflective of how well he hit. He actually had a very solid-All Star AA season in 2011. His OBP was the best it has ever been. His SLG could be better but he is hitting in a pitcher’s park, and he does have some pop. He was a guy you always wanted at the plate. He needs to now do it in AAA, but what you are saying isn’t true. It is more about him staying away from injuries.
*has had* concussion issues
Pruf, don’t think the Yankees move on Darvish, but may move on either Soler or Cespedes. But not for anywhere near $50+M.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Let’s say AJ continues to be terrible…..Garcia takes a step back……Hughes doesn’t improve……Nova has a sophomore slump…..etc….the Yankees pitching did a nice job last year but aside from Hughes a lot of things fell right and Im not sure how likely that is to happen again. Colon threw a lot of quality innings that somebody is going to have to throw……what Im saying is Id rather not have a situation where some things break bad and they feel the need to put Banuelos in the rotation before he’s ready for it. He needs a full season at AAA next year.
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Hell, lets say the world explodes on Christmas Eve this year. Why is it a sure thing that Danks rebounds to be good, but, Hughes can’t and Burnett stinks and Garcia decides to act his age?
Blake, you’re getting to be as bad as Bret. When you get on a name, you don’t care about the cost or what you have to give up to get your way. You’re like a starving dog with a piece of meat. You’re so busy looking for another bigger piece, you forget to eat the one you have and starve to death. Danks is a pretty good pitcher, but, he’s not that good.
blake, I think it is more about FB command, than Manny not trusting his stuff.
How is what I’m saying about Romine isn’t true if he did, in fact, fall off significantly in the 2nd half both seasons?
So I guess you’re content with the same team as last year and another 1st round exit. Yes, the offense sucked in the playoffs, but the pitching wasn’t that much better. I rather take my chance with guys like AROD and Tex stepping it up over guys like AJ Burnett and Freddy Garcia.
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This is pretty facile. Nova got hurt in warmups, & the manager refused to pinch hit, or take advantage of Montero’s bat. Who knows how far they could have gone, had there been slight adjustments made and if Nova hadn’t gotten hurt. You can’t plan for your No. 2 guy going down in warmups.
If the Marlins have that much money to spend, how about sending Miami native Alex Rodriguez to them? They could move Hanley to LF and include Logan Morrison and Anibel Sanchez in a package.
Hmmmmmmmmm
Pat,
Can’t see Pujols leaving St. Louis. At the end of it all, they’ll up their offer by a couple million so that both they and AP save face.
blake, respect yours too. That goes without saying, but I just don’t see giving up valuable prospects for a rental. Doesn’t that bother you at all? One year of him, and then he walks and you have traded Romine and Noesi +1 or +2 for Danks?
“Blake, you’re getting to be as bad as Bret.”
You can keep saying that but it doesn’t make or true
I would love it if the Yankees found a taker for Rafael Soriano. Teams are spending.
I don’t think Romine and Noesi are going to be the centerpieces for a better deal.
Can’t see Pujols leaving St. Louis. At the end of it all, they’ll up their offer by a couple million so that both they and AP save face.
==============================
May not have to. Fla’s refusal to include NTC will likely be enough to keep him in St Louis if the money is close.
86w183 December 6th, 2011 at 10:05 am
If the Marlins have that much money to spend, how about sending Miami native Alex Rodriguez to them? They could move Hanley to LF and include Logan Morrison and Anibel Sanchez in a package.
Hmmmmmmmmm
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Wow. And you think ARod will waive that no-trade clause? And the Marlins want several years of $22+M payments?
Wow. Not happening. ARod is here for the duration.
# DaSaint007 December 6th, 2011 at 10:02 am
Pruf, don’t think the Yankees move on Darvish, but may move on either Soler or Cespedes. But not for anywhere near $50+M.
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That’s the quoted figure. Let’s see what reality dictates. At least, IMO, Cespedes, while maybe not a “need”, addresses a potential weakness, or gap, going forward. We just don’t have a bridge big OF prospect who’ll be ready in two years. We’ve got some kids primed to move fast, but those would be lightning leaps. I can live with our current OF, but the CF makes his bookends livable, and I’d like to see a Cespedes-type profile step into the breach. Like I said, if they don’t think he’s worth the $$$, they won’t bite. I would just personally like to see an upgrade.
YF,
I watched him pitch several times this year…..and it is fastball command obviously but it seemed to me a lot of tines that he was just trying to make perfectly pitches than anything else and would just barely miss……that’s obviously a command issue but I think its just part of the learning experience.
Since the Yanks have already extended Sabathia for another year, picked up the 2012 club option on Nick Swisher, and re-signed Garcia, I want them to do these things next:
Re-sign Jones, Chavez, Ayala, and Colon to one-year contracts.
Sign David Ortiz to be the DH for a year so Montero could further develop as a catcher and hopefully take over from Martin in 2013.
If the Yanks did these things, their 2012 Opening Day roster would be this:
Rotation: Sabathia/Burnett/Nova/Garcia/Hughes
Bullpen: Rivera/Robertson/Soriano/Logan/Wade/Ayala/Colon
Bench: Romine (backup C)/Nunez(backup 2B/SS)/Chavez(backup 1B/3B)/Jones (backup OF)
Starting Nine/Batting Order:
Gardner LF L
Jeter SS R
Cano 2B L
Rodriguez 3B R
Teixiera 1B S
Granderson CF L
Swisher RF S
Ortiz DH L
Martin C R
Ortiz would be the only newcomer.
LGY, fall off where in 2011, his cup of coffee (15 AB’s) in AAA?
Noesi had a mediocre time (brief) in AAA and was below average at the major league level. He isn’t a super prospect. Romine is an iffy defender that has OPS’d .700 at every level. He has tools but he hasn’t really dominated. He is just the kind of guy you trade for a major league upgrade, because he isn’t Montero.
“When you get on a name, you don’t care about the cost or what you have to give up to get your way.”
Prove this…..when did I say id give up whatever it took to get John Danks?
I understand Romine is a Yankee prospect, but he projects, at best a .260 hitter with 10-15 home runs. He seems solid defensively, but no one has annointed him Pudge behind the plate.
Again, I ask what will he play for the Yankees that has more value than a no. 2 or 3 starter? He has back up to Martin written all over him.
I’m still looking for the numbers from 2011 but in 2010:
Romine
First 2 months of the season: .378 wOBA
Rest of the season: .278 wOBA
I hope the Yankees keep Noesi, Romine, Nunez. I feel all of those players will be worth far more in the coming year(s). They’re nowhere near peak value. It just makes no sense to trade them when their value has not been fully realized. The Yankees have to be more patient with these guys and hopefully one or more turn into Ivan Nova. What team would have acknowledged Nova as a potential mid rotation arm before last year and offered equal value for that? These guys are flying under the radar while the other guys are getting more hype. Hughes and Joba got all the hype but Kennedy was rarely considered in their same class. It worries me.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 10:09 am
YF,
I watched him pitch several times this year…..and it is fastball command obviously but it seemed to me a lot of tines that he was just trying to make perfectly pitches than anything else and would just barely miss……that’s obviously a command issue but I think its just part of the learning experience.
_____
You mean in AAA? He only threw 34 innings there, and was getting acclimated, as well as tired. He was fearless in AA. Would throw any pitch in any count…
as well as *was* tired
# yankeefeminista December 6th, 2011 at 10:03 am
blake, I think it is more about FB command, than Manny not trusting his stuff.
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Manny’s release point got messed with a few times and may have contributed to some diffidence during stretches, but I agree, it’s been mechanical, not a lack of belief. This is the year command and velo are properly wed, for him. & he’s got to pitch inside a little more.
With what I’m reading from various sources on Yu Darvish, if he decides to post and the Ham Fighters agree, anything less than the 51.1M that was accepted by Matsusaka’s team, might just be rejected.
After the allotted four days of silent auction have passed, the Commissioner closes the bidding process and notifies the posted player’s NPB team of the highest bid amount but not who the bidding team is. The NPB team then has four days to either accept or reject the non-negotiable bid amount.
by Gen on Dec.05, 2011 @ 2:21 pm, under MLB, NPB
Sports Hochi is reporting that Yu Darvish (25) could ask the Nippon Ham Fighters to post him as early as some time later this week (likely after the Winter Meetings). And depending on the conditions (salary, bonus, planned usage) could opt to return to the Fighters next year — Arn Tellem and Darvish have apparently that if they can not get an offer that is considered “appropriate for Japan’s Ace,” they will simply withdraw from negotiations and Darvish will return to Japan in 2012. It is possible Darvish could be seeking at least US$8M a year
Bret, for once, I agree with you.
Pruf, agree. Kid is as gutsy as they come. But needs more time in AAA, and definitely needs to pitch inside more.
LGY, fall off where in 2011, his cup of coffee (15 AB’s) in AAA?
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In AA. He started off hot and gradually cooled off like in 2010.
watched him pitch several times this year…..and it is fastball command obviously but it seemed to me a lot of tines that he was just trying to make perfectly pitches than anything else and would just barely miss……that’s obviously a command issue but I think its just part of the learning experience.
___
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The velocity has robbed him of some of the location he’s used to having. THose two things will come together. I don’t think it’s a lack of trust, it’s trying to do what you’ve always been able to and not being able to, because your command hasn’t caught up to a sudden spike in power yet.
“You mean in AAA? He only threw 34 innings there, and was getting acclimated, as well as tired. He was fearless in AA. Would throw any pitch in any count…”
Yea I know….even in ST and the AFL last year he nibbles a little bit when he doesn’t need to. Its why he walked so many last year and fell behind so much. Its a command issue but I think its also an approach issue because he’s a young kid……its just whatever I saw they few times I’ve seen him……he rarely misses his spot badly but he barely misses a lot trying to be too fine. He’s got great stuff …..he needs to go after guys more and I think that’s the final step he’ll take on 2012. He’s close…..just needs some fine tuning and pitching experience.
blake’s assessment seems to line up with Stick.
“I thought he might come a lot faster,” Michael said here at the Winter Meetings. “I like him. He has a good arm. He has a great change-up, an above-average curveball. He needs to locate a little better. Maybe not pick quite as much as he was. But he is going to be a good one.
“He probably tries to hit spots a little too much. He should let his stuff work for him maybe a little more. I had a scout that told me — and I’m using a line that a scout told me — I said, ‘I thought he was going to come a little faster, but the scout said to me — and this is a good line, too — ‘He’ll figure it out.’”
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....ure-it-out
Yankeefeminista,
I’m imagining GM’s opening with demands for Montero and or Banuelos with the goal of “settling” on 3-5 projectable prospects like Romine, Noesi and Nunez – guys they secretly covet. I would be careful about lumping these guys in the same package. Imagine if Nova had been lumped in a package?
Whatever you believe to be the cause……he needs to get his command dialed in and learn a little more about pitching and then he will be ready to roll……but he’s not quite there yet and they need to give him the time he needs to get there.
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 10:12 am
I’m still looking for the numbers from 2011 but in 2010:
Romine
First 2 months of the season: .378 wOBA
Rest of the season: .278 wOBA
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Yeah, he was hurt. You can argue that he may be susceptible to injuries. Catchers are though. But having seen the games, he has improved as a hitter. There is a reason he was an All Star catcher in AA. He was Trenton’s best position player, along with Corban in 2011. He was stellar at the plate but the stiff neck/back/concussion issues definitely meant he missed games at different points in each season. 2010 though he had issues hitting at Waterfront, especially because of a sign which they removed in 2011 that affected his batting eye.
blake, Manny definitely needs more time. No way we rush him.
They’re nowhere near peak value. It just makes no sense to trade them when their value has not been fully realized.
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Well, it especially doesn’t make sense when you’re dealing with a “need” that is more a product of imagination than reality.
Bret, Romine, Noesi and Nunez is far too much for Danks.
Until later. Have a great day.
LGY, what sources are you looking to for those Romine stats?
YT, you too!
Romine was an All Star because those selections are based on first half production.
# yankeefeminista December 6th, 2011 at 10:15 am
Pruf, agree. Kid is as gutsy as they come. But needs more time in AAA, and definitely needs to pitch inside more.
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He will once he harnesses the heat better.
I just don’t think it’s fair for other GM’s to quantify Romine, Noesi, Nunez as filler. Those guys are not centerpiece players but they could be very soon. The same goes for Nova. Last year, GM’s considered him a toss-in. Now he’s a centerpiece. I hope the Yankees don’t sell short these guys. They have to sell high and trade players closer to their peak value.
LGY, the blister and the increased velo were new territory for Manny. I saw that blister multiple times in Trenton when Manny wasn’t pitching and it was nasty. Manny WILL figure it out.
spidanyc December 6th, 2011 at 9:46 am
GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2011 at 9:26 am
How did ny do without a so-called #2 in 2011? It wasn?t starting pitching that knocked NY out of the playoffs.
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So I guess you’re content with the same team as last year and another 1st round exit. Yes, the offense sucked in the playoffs, but the pitching wasn’t that much better. I rather take my chance with guys like AROD and Tex stepping it up over guys like AJ Burnett and Freddy Garcia.
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So meeting Williams’ ridiculous price for Danks or signing a guy they don’t know if he can hit MLB pitching will guarantee at least a trip to the ALCS in 2012?
What’s wrong with waiting this thing out until something comes along that makes sense?
Bret, Cash values those players more highly than LoHudders. No worries. I don’t expect Cash to cave to Williams’ demands.
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 10:23 am
Romine was an All Star because those selections are based on first half production.
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Dude, I have seen him hit for two years in AA. Your perception is way off base. But believe what you want.
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 10:23 am
Romine was an All Star because those selections are based on first half production
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and MLB AS are what, second half production?
What Yankee prospect ISN’T destined for greatness, according to some of you?
The Yankees have said they weight second half production more than first half with their prospects.
No one said Romine is destined for greatness, but he is a good hitter/also hits to opposite field. Puts the bat on the ball to drive in runs. Decent for a catcher. Some pop. That .351 OBP last year was progress b/c he can be a little undisciplined. He will have an above average bat for a catcher.
One question that needs to be asked is how long is the Yankees championship window here…….and will there be some overlap between runs as Jeter, Tex, Arod, Rivera….etc age? I love where they are at for the longterm……..but its probably too much to ask the kids to pick right up immediately.
# yankeefeminista December 6th, 2011 at 10:19 am
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 10:12 am
I’m still looking for the numbers from 2011 but in 2010:
Romine
First 2 months of the season: .378 wOBA
Rest of the season: .278 wOBA
______
Yeah, he was hurt. You can argue that he may be susceptible to injuries. Catchers are though. But having seen the games, he has improved as a hitter. There is a reason he was an All Star catcher in AA. He was Trenton’s best position player, along with Corban in 2011. He was stellar at the plate but the stiff neck/back/concussion issues definitely meant he missed games at different points in each season. 2010 though he had issues hitting at Waterfront, especially because of a sign which they removed in 2011 that affected his batting eye.
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Kind of stupid to quote numbers as some sort of final statement on a guy who is evolving and just arrived in AAA. His back and concussion problems have been well reported. He’s got hitting ability, which he’s demonstrated when healthy, and he became more selective. He needs some time to grow as a hitter, but he’s got that tool.
These winter meetings are not the be all – end all. There’s no guarantees that injuries can’t occur during the 1st few months of the season and the 7/31 trading deadline becomes all important.
The Yankees have depth the other teams don’t have. It’s why Cashman can wait for “his” kind of deal.
Last year Alex and the Captain were out of the lineup at assorted times with injuries and Nunez didn’t drive the team into the ground.
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 10:32 am
The Yankees have said they weight second half production more than first half with their prospects
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But you so acknowledge that all all star selections are based on first half production though.
Kind of stupid to quote numbers as some sort of final statement on a guy who is evolving and just arrived in AAA.
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No one made any kind of final statement on romine, you guys are crazy overrating him.
LGY, give me the 2011 numbers, please.
# LGY December 6th, 2011 at 10:32 am
The Yankees have said they weight second half production more than first half with their prospects.
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What is it about injuries impacting a player’s performance that you don’t grasp? Wasn’t it you crying about Gardner’s thumb injury being responsible for his feeble swing? Interesting: you also questioned Jeter’s injuries being legit…we’re talking about a kid who had a concussion and a back problem. I was there when he got creamed at the plate at Waterfront.
I think our best bet —-> is to evaluate all trade offers……… if the price is too high for Danks Gio and Garza…. walk away and give Noesi the spot and let him fly !. Maybe trade demands will be realistic come the trading deadline.
JF, look above. Did I overrate him?
If you said all that and then still don’t think the Yankees should be allowed to trade him, then yes you are.
Over rating him how? No one said he’s Montero. He’s got a nice bat that will get better, especially if he can continue to improve his plate discipline. He was on a nice roll for Trenton before he went down.
But you so acknowledge that all all star selections are based on first half production though.
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Huh?
Romine has been injured his entire mL career?
He’s been a low 7 OPS guy every season.
Romine was an All Star because those selections are based on first half production.
My point is LGY, is that anyone who is an all star is due to his first half production, and they all can regress in the second half. So your statement was an obvious fact. He was still legitimately an all star.
The kid clearly has talent, and seemingly well rounded talent: offensive and defensive, whereas Montero may be a better hitter than he is defensively. That’s my point I guess.
Dasaint
I was pointing out mL All Star selections are not going to tell you how good a hitter Romine is.
Minor League accolades in general don’t mean much of anything.
Eduardo Nunez was named the best defensive SS in 2010.
JackCurryYES Bumped into Greg Golson at winter mtgs. Interviewed him 4 YES. Said people just yell “Carl Crawford” when they talk about 2010 cannon throw
# BX33 December 6th, 2011 at 10:30 am
What Yankee prospect ISN’T destined for greatness, according to some of you?
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Melky Mesa? Kelvin DeLeon? David Phelps? Austin Romine? Adam Warren? DJ Mitchell? There’s no point in continuing, since there are many levels below “destined greatness.”
I’ll give you ONE name that we have known was destined for greatness: Jesus Montero. Nobody else fits the “destined for greatness” hyperbole. There are a HANDFUL of guys who have great upside, and could be ML stars if things progress.
It seems you’re the one who’s in need of perspective
.
Would anyone disagree that Romine projects to be a starting MLB catcher with an average bat? Aren’t those valuable right now?
Wow…Romine’s a hot topic on the LoHud today, huh?
Yeah they’re valid right now. He needs to undergo some growth as a hitter. I recall anyone here was suggesting he’s some kind of star in the making.
Still wouldn’t waste him for 15 minutes of John Danks.
Time to walk the imaginary dog.
Would anyone disagree that Romine projects to be a starting MLB catcher with an average bat? Aren’t those valuable right now?
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Projects to be. Might just be valuable enough to get John Danks. A lefty that pitches well.
LGY, Romine improved his OBP significantly in 2011, that was one of his weaknesses. He has been showing more plate discipline; he needs to continue to improve and next show he can hit in AAA. He is not an elite hitter. On the other hand, he should have an above average bat for a catcher in mlb if he continues to improve. Also little known fact: all 10 of his homers in 2010 were in second half, in spite of his wearing down.
Marlins offer 10 yrs to albert
Erin December 6th, 2011 at 10:54 am
Wow…Romine’s a hot topic on the LoHud today, huh?
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Um, yeah. Way more time than we needed to spend on him.
The Rockies have agreed to acquire starter Kevin Slowey from the Twins for a player to be named later, reports MLB.com’s Thomas Harding.
Slowey, 27, was widely regarded as a non-tender candidate had he remained with the Twins until next week’s deadline.
Also little known fact: all 10 of his homers in 2010 were in second half, in spite of his wearing down.
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I don’t think this is true.
RadioKev December 6th, 2011 at 10:54 am
Would anyone disagree that Romine projects to be a starting MLB catcher with an average bat? Aren’t those valuable right now?
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Maybe I’m imagining a pattern but I think that starting pitching prospects became the currency of baseball when the Yankees had a shortage there. Then Posada’s age became a concern and starting catcher prospects suddenly skyrocketed in value right on par with young starting pitchers. Now that the Yankees have young starting pitchers they still can’t afford to trade for young outfielders. Since the Yankees are looking for long-term help in the OF, outfielders are valued on par with young pitching prospects. Sometimes I feel the market tends to conform to the microcosm of supply and demand within the most dominant business in the industry.
But still I wonder if the front office floats out word of the absurd demands of other GM’s because it creates the impression that everything is too expensive and appeases fans who question why nothing is being done. It creates an excuse for inactivity.
The realistic negotiations and deals that are more serious don’t leak.
I believe Romine will be wasted if he stays with the Yankees if they intend to extend Martin or if they think Montero can catch. Under those circumstances his career will consist of being, at best, a backup catcher. Yet, people won’t trade him for a pitcher who can help in 2012.
If I am mistaken, I would welcome for someone explain to me his role for the Yankees.
Now, Noesi is a sure fire star. He has given up more hits than innings pitched in winter ball while striking out about 7 per 9 innings. Gave up more hits than innings pitched in 2011. Can he start? Perhaps so, but take off the rose colored glasses and try to see these players as the rest of baseball does.
repost
champ809 December 6th, 2011 at 10:58 am
I think the yanks would and in the end will willingly trade Romine + a B-tier pitcher like Warren or Phelps or Mitchell for Danks.
If the deal is expanded to include Thornton then the Yanks would maybe add another bat like Joseph or Laird and feel good about achieving their objectives of shoring up the staff to make a serious run @ the 2012 title and retaining the most elite future studs in Montero, Banny, Bettances, Sanchez, Mason and Slade.
Romine becomes expendable with guys like Sanchez, JR Murphy, Isaias Tejada, Bird and even Higgy behind him.
At the worst Romine can be an AJ Pierzinski or Russell Martin type of hitting catcher with better defense. Not a superstar, but, certainly no worse than a starter for most teams.
As far as Danks being a 1yr rental the Yanks sent Melky, Dunn and Vizcaino- an arm that they loved- to ATL for 1yr of Vazquez and felt good about it at the time.
It didn’t work out but the certainly are not afraid to make that type of deal for that level of prospect for a 1yr rental player if they like the peg for that hole.
I am not against our trading Romine in due time, but not for a one year rental.
So if the Yankees need a #2, who on the market is a #2? All three (Gio, Danks, Wilson) are more like #3s, and will get paid as such.
Who is to say that Nova isn’t a #2? He sure pitched like one last year.
There is really nobody out there worth giving up two blue chips of the non Montero, non B’s level at this point. Maybe there are ideas floating around we do not know about (I am sure there are).
My $$$ says they go hard after Yoenis Cespedes and Yu Darvish, then sign one of Chavez and Jones (or someone like them) and call it an offseason. Regardless of the upfront $$$$, both Darvish and Cespedes should only count $6-8 million each against the $189 million cap.
It’s about flexibility in the roster, especially after 2012.
Chicago has young infielders. They need pitching help more than anything else……other than somebody to bail them out of bad player acquisition decisions.
No one is debating that Romine is not expendable. But do you want to waste him for a one year rental?
who on the market is a #2?
PittYankeefan –
Garza.
Problem is that Garza will demand a haul.
The Yanks also had a need for Vazquez when they got him. They don’t have that need. All they have are a fanbase that wants them to do something, whether it makes sense or not.
JackCurryYES One scout predicted Cespedes will hit .280/25 hrs. When I asked Cashman about him, repeated that he didn’t expect to make big salary move
Problem is that Garza will demand a haul.
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true
At the worst Romine can be an AJ Pierzinski or Russell Martin type of hitting catcher with better defense. Not a superstar, but, certainly no worse than a starter for most teams.
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At worst?
Those players look like a scenario you hope for right now.
Austinmac,
Russell Martin very well may get a long-term deal if he proves healthy throughout 2012. However, he plays so hard and the position is so brutal that I think there’s room for Romine as a 50/50 catcher for the first 3 years of his young career and Martin’s long term contract (if he gets one). Furthermore, if the Yankees feel Montero is not an option to catch in place of Martin, I think Romine will be kept.
I believe Martin is a luxury but having him means you need a backup who can catch, handle the staff and produce with the bat.
Romine is a lightening rod because some fans view Montero as a DH or trade bait and others believe he can catch on a more regular basis and emerge as the next Mike Piazza.
PittsburghYankeeFan December 6th, 2011 at 11:12 am
So if the Yankees need a #2, who on the market is a #2? All three (Gio, Danks, Wilson) are more like #3s, and will get paid as such.
Who is to say that Nova isn’t a #2? He sure pitched like one last year.
There is really nobody out there worth giving up two blue chips of the non Montero, non B’s level at this point. Maybe there are ideas floating around we do not know about (I am sure there are).
My $$$ says they go hard after Yoenis Cespedes and Yu Darvish, then sign one of Chavez and Jones (or someone like them) and call it an offseason. Regardless of the upfront $$$$, both Darvish and Cespedes should only count $6-8 million each against the $189 million cap.
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For luxury tax purposes – I thought it was based on AAV
Wow, we’re getting old
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01.....038;src=pm
blake December 6th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Let’s say AJ continues to be terrible…..Garcia takes a step back……Hughes doesn’t improve……Nova has a sophomore slump…..etc….the Yankees pitching did a nice job last year but aside from Hughes a lot of things fell right and Im not sure how likely that is to happen again. Colon threw a lot of quality innings that somebody is going to have to throw……what Im saying is Id rather not have a situation where some things break bad and they feel the need to put Banuelos in the rotation before he’s ready for it. He needs a full season at AAA next year.
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Blake your right, too many here just assume that last year is this year. Given recent stock market performance I wish is was also.
I don’t expect the guys we had last year as a staff to perform as well this coming year. Just depends on where you come down, good arguments can be made on both sides. Maybe given the way things are going we will find our who was right.
Kevin Slowey from the twins to Colorado for money or a player to be named. There’s another pitcher that Cashman missed out on.
New Post: Marlins in position to make another splash?
The mystery question remains. What becomes of Cervelli ? It’s not likely the team will carry 3 catchers. Assuming Romine is not dealt, he gets a quick call in the event of injury.
Erin December 6th, 2011 at 11:15 am
JackCurryYES One scout predicted Cespedes will hit .280/25 hrs. When I asked Cashman about him, repeated that he didn’t expect to make big salary move
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Which is what I would expect him to say. There isn’t too much upside to tipping your hand at this point. I’m still hoping someone different is out there patroling RF instead of Smiling Nick.
I believe Cashman could do a Blockbuster inna minute, (maybe even 3-Way) if he would dangle Gardner. With Theo under the gun in Chi Town, that’s a fit, though I get the feeling Cashman is attempting to use Grandy as the centerpiece. Cashman knows the $$$ is there in Chicago to pay Grandy’s 2 yrs, and the position is open. Cash throws in a Killer B, and Romine, maybe goes 3-Way and gets a cheap LF’er to replace Gardner who moves to CF. Cashman uses the $$$ saved to help get Darvish, and ends up adding Garza and Darvish to the Yankee Rotation without putting a serious dent in the Yankee Payroll with 2014 in mind.