Marlins in position to make another splash?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 06, 2011 
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The Winter Meetings are less than 48 hours old, and already the Marlins have introduced Heath Bell as their new closer and signed Jose Reyes as their new shortstop. They’re the making the biggest splash in Dallas, and they might not be done.
The Marlins are said to be in full pursuit of Albert Pujols, essentially making this a two-team race between the Marlins and Cardinals (with the Cubs possibly still in that mix somewhere).
With a new stadium, a new name and a small payroll, the Marlins are clearly the most aggressive team out there right now. They’re the anti-Yankees, except the roles are the exact opposite of what we’ve come to expect in recent years.
Wow, we’re getting old
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01…..038;src=pm
Marlins could be verry very interesting – adding Reyes, Bell, now Pujols. Bring in Buehrle (the Ozzie connection) – and they have the prospects to get Danks or Gio – that is a team next year to compete with the Phillies. A rotation of Josh Johnson, Buehrle, Sanchez, Nolasco, and Danks/Gio should go far – w/ Bell closing – and a possible 1-4 of Reyes, Ramirez, Pujols, Stanton – wow. . . .
re-post
The mystery question remains. What becomes of Cervelli ? It’s not likely the team will carry 3 catchers. Assuming Romine is not dealt, he gets a quick call in the event of injury.
Gary December 6th, 2011 at 11:31 am
Erin December 6th, 2011 at 11:15 am
JackCurryYES One scout predicted Cespedes will hit .280/25 hrs. When I asked Cashman about him, repeated that he didn’t expect to make big salary move
____________________________________________________________________________
Which is what I would expect him to say. There isn’t too much upside to tipping your hand at this point. I’m still hoping someone different is out there patroling RF instead of Smiling Nick.
108 stitches December 6th, 2011 at 11:32 am
re-post
The mystery question remains. What becomes of Cervelli ? It’s not likely the team will carry 3 catchers.
********
Why not – especially when Montero is figured to be the primary DH?
108-I think Cervelli will still be on the team, if they stick to the plan of Montero being the primary DH.
Plus, you can’t split up the BFF team of CC and Cervelli.
Hi everyone,
Yup, Cervelli should be the third string catcher for 2012, at least until Romine is ready.
@Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Confirmed: #Marlins have made 10-year offer to Pujols. Source says two sides trying to work through no-trade issue. MORE #MLB
@Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Pujols wants protection for first five years, then 10/5 rights would kick in. #STLCards expected to talk again with Pujols camp today. #MLB
I see no reason to believe Cashman is not being honest when he says their will be no significant salary move. No Darvish or Cespedes. If anyone has any information to the contrary, and not simply wishful thinking, please set me straight. They intend to reduce payroill, not increase it.
Pujols, Reyes, Hanley, stanton in the same lineup could be kinda good……will they give Albert a no trade?
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 11:38 am
@Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Confirmed: #Marlins have made 10-year offer to Pujols. Source says two sides trying to work through no-trade issue. MORE #MLB
@Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Pujols wants protection for first five years, then 10/5 rights would kick in. #STLCards expected to talk again with Pujols camp today. #MLB
====================
Another blunder like the Arod- Texas contract, i wonder why people won’t learn from other peoples mistakes
I believe it is insanity to offer Pujols a ten year contract. It will inevitably end very badly.
“I see no reason to believe Cashman is not being honest when he says their will be no significant salary move”
Bubba Crosby will be our CFer, we aren’t in on Tex, we wont lose our first rounder for . Soriano….
Blake,
I think Soriano is not a good example, i think he was forced down in to Cashman’s throat, but the rest are very good
GMs routinely mislead the media about their plans. It’s part of the territory.
10 years for Pujols is of course crazy…..but if the Marlins are searching for an identity that would certainly give then one and if they can get it without a no trade clause then they’d have at least some potential out if everything tanks
108 stitches December 6th, 2011 at 11:32 am
re-post
The mystery question remains. What becomes of Cervelli ? It’s not likely the team will carry 3 catchers. Assuming Romine is not dealt, he gets a quick call in the event of injury.
————————————————————————————————————————-
When one of the catchers is scheduled to be the primary DH, it only makes sense to carry a third catcher. Cervelli isn’t perfect, but, he’s passible. Hardly a great hitter, but, his hits generally produce runs.
Marlins on the move. If Pujols is signed by them, Ramirez gets dealt for more pitching. Wonder if Jack Z would listen if he were the centerpiece for Felix?
Blake-I don’t know that I would count Soriano/draft pick as a Cashman lie. If it had been up to him, he wouldn’t have been a Yankee in the first place.
Luis,
True but it still happened……point is that nothing Cashman says really means anything. It doesn’t mean they are going to do anything…..but it doesn’t mean they wont either.
Im not saying its a lie……just saying that you can’t take everytibg he says as gospel…..particularly in the case of Darvish it benefits the Yanks to downplay their interest as much as possible.
There aren’t a lot of teams in need of first basemen and the marlins have a pretty good young 1st baseman in Gaby sanchez. Makes little sense when they need pitchers more. They’ll be selling off all of their prises within 3 years when people stop coming to see the “Taj Mahal Of South Beach”.
Someone suggested it earlier, but it isn’t that outrageous anymore.
Why not see if the Marlins want to take A-Rod? Hometown hero, 3rd baseman, still has star power and a big draw. Cheaper than Pujols, less of a commitment.
no outrage over the marlin owner scum being investigated by the SEC. he has been a scoundrel for years. he took yankee and sux money for years, whined about no money and cannot compete but after ripping off the public for about $400 mill, he is now spending and not a negative word said!!!!
corporate welfare of the highest degree. he likes socialism until he has the money and then he is all in on the capitalism, another clown scum owner.
# austinmac December 6th, 2011 at 11:39 am
I see no reason to believe Cashman is not being honest when he says their will be no significant salary move. No Darvish or Cespedes. If anyone has any information to the contrary, and not simply wishful thinking, please set me straight. They intend to reduce payroill, not increase it.
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Haven’t they been saying that for the past couple of seasons?
***prizes***
Blake,
point taken
Blake-gotcha
“There aren’t a lot of teams in need of first basemen”
Team across town could use one.
On the Marlins – I still don’t believe the Marlins will trade HanRam, but given the noise coming from him let’s assume they do.
Hanley Ramirez to the Cubs for Starlin and Garza? Move Castro to 3b? Theo tried year after year to get Hanley back to the Red Sox.
ramirez is playing 3rd for the marlins no one will take alex off the yanks hand. thank the fat, crew cut yankee owner for that shrewd move. I think he bid against himself only about $15 mill to much per year, BTW this is a first guess not an after the fact complaint.
the arod contract was laughable from the start. thatnk god the smart and patient steinny son is running the yanks now…..
Blake,
That is no evidence he is interested in spending money this year. Cashman has meant what he has said the last two years. The new CBA changes things.
I would love them to spend money on the international front, but Cashman has said he needs to justify any expenditure as filling a need. He has spent all off season saying the offense is fine and they are happy with their roster.
Wishful thinking that the old days would return.
So Hanley doesn’t want to play 3B for the Marlins, but he’ll come play 3B for the Yankees?
And… A-Rod is going to waive his no-trade for… what reason?
“Why not see if the Marlins want to take A-Rod? ”
What benefit is there to Alex to agree to waive his no trade clause?
Cash on mlbradio now.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 11:50 am
“There aren’t a lot of teams in need of first basemen”
Team across town could use one.
————–
Ike Davis.
He’s certainly got a lot to prove coming off an injury but given their money situation he’s a good fit.
yankees are going to sign no big players , that is smart, and they will be fine.
overpaying , adding dead weight years of contracts does not help teams.
yanks farm system is loaded take advantage of it. no more over priced toys……..
He said bobby v was going to rappel with him next year.
Sounds more like Cashman is saying that he doesn’t anticipate any huge transactions….unless it makes sense. He says the same thing every year. There have been very few deals in the last two years that require a lot of money. The winter of ’08 is the last big deals besides Vazquez.
@HanleyRamirez: Everybody it’s waiting to see what’s gonna happen with me or what I gonna do right?
@HanleyRamirez: What I am gonna do is work hard and get ready for next season because that is the only thing I can control I love y’all!!!!
Can we just FF to next week
blake December 6th, 2011 at 11:53 am
He said bobby v was going to rappel with him next year.
*******************
Oh, good. It would be very amusing to see the Grinch attach Bobby V on his way down.
Cash on Montero:
He has a 70 arm and we think he will catch and he can flat out hit.
oops “attack” not attach
GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2011 at 11:48 am
There aren’t a lot of teams in need of first basemen and the marlins have a pretty good young 1st baseman in Gaby sanchez. Makes little sense when they need pitchers more. They’ll be selling off all of their prises within 3 years when people stop coming to see the “Taj Mahal Of South Beach”.
————————–
Teams that could use a Gaby Sanchez:
Cubs
Rockies
Baltimore
Arizona
Giants
Brewers (if they lose Prince)
Rays
Cards (if they lose Pujols)
Dodgers
A’s
That’s plenty to find a partner who can send back pitching.
“I think he bid against himself only about $15 mill to much per year..”
$15 M a year? There would have been lots of takers at 10/$125 in 2007.
Hanley doesn’t sound thrilled.
GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2011 at 11:54 am
Sounds more like Cashman is saying that he doesn’t anticipate any huge transactions….unless it makes sense. He says the same thing every year. There have been very few deals in the last two years that require a lot of money. The winter of ’08 is the last big deals besides Vazquez.
————-
Curtis Granderson
Soriano (though that wasn’t Cashman’s call)
blake December 6th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Hanley doesn’t sound thrilled.
————–
I said it yesterday – Ozzie’s not known for giving his players the warm and fuzzies, it will be interesting to see how he deals with a guy who is already disgruntled.
“the arod contract was laughable from the start. thatnk god the smart and patient steinny son is running the yanks now”…..
That’s why i compared Pujols contract offer from the Marlins with the initial contract of the Rangers and Arod, because Hank’s contract it’s on a completely different class on it’s own. I don’t believe it will ever be surpassed
Cashman on rotation
We are going to try to add…..never want to be too comfortable…..we have some depth but were not going to rely on it. Trades discussions aren’t going well so far.
“What benefit is there to Alex to agree to waive his no trade clause?”
He has nothing left to prove in NY, he won his ring.
Why not finish his career in his hometown? Warm weather, his comfort zone, could be the face of that franchise, and the team is a contender as well.
Thanks for the updates Blake !
Doesn’t sound too hot for Darvish…..talks about payroll and budget.
Yank 97 December 6th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
“What benefit is there to Alex to agree to waive his no trade clause?”
He has nothing left to prove in NY, he won his ring.
Why not finish his career in his hometown? Warm weather, his comfort zone, could be the face of that franchise, and the team is a contender as well.
——————-
Even if Alex was willing to waive his NTC…which he likely wouldn’t.
Why are the Marlins trading for an older player with a huge contract and knee and hip problems?
It’s unfortunate but you can’t give shortstop to Hanley Ramirez…unless he is disgruntled for reasons other than position change. Maybe he just doesn’t like being a Marlin or doesn’t like Ozzie or the front office or the clubhouse atmosphere?
Mike Ri December 6th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
Thanks for the updates Blake !
======================
Ditto!!
blake December 6th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
Doesn’t sound too hot for Darvish…..talks about payroll and budget.
————-
He always talks about budget and payroll…and we should always take it with a grain of salt.
That said, Joel Sherman made the point that if the Yankees are able to keep their payroll under 189 mil in 2013, 14 and 15 – due to the new luxury tax and revenue sharing rules, it could save the organization over $100 mil
How many of those teams actually have good enough pitching to be trading? 3?
Mike, Luis,
No prob.
On MLB TV,
Gammons saying that Cashman is waiting for the right deal, and then he mentions Garza and Jurgens as posible trade targets for Cash. Personally, i don’t like either of them because of the cost in prospects might be to high
The issue with Montero at catcher is not his arm. I get uncomfortable just watching him trying to fold his body into the catcher’s position. Yes, there have been other big catchers, but he just doesn’t look limber enough to handle the stress on his knees.
In retrospect, with Tex locked in at first, the Yanks should have given Montero a 3B glove a few years ago and planned for Alex’s transition to DH. Maybe it would have worked, maybe not, but would have been worth a shot.
Cashman on Red Sox:
They played one week less than we did…..don’t take them lightly
Cashman is trying like hell to package Granderson and the remaining 2yrs on his contract in order to upgrade the SP. Problem is, teams want Gardner. Adding Darvish will not seriously impact the current Yankee payroll or 2014.
“Why not finish his career in his hometown? ”
No promise Loria will field a contender for the next 6 years, no DH for starters.
“Adding Darvish will not seriously impact the current Yankee payroll or 2014.”
How you figure.
Why do the Marlins have to trade Sanchez for pitching?
How you figure.
–
8 mil is good for a starter.
eboland11 Brian Cashman just walked through atrium with phone pressed to ear. No, that is not big news
Blake,
So Cashman just said they’re not interested in Darvish
Of so, good.
Yea, and Texas played 2 weeks more than the Yanks. SO WHAT. When evaluating a team, you look at their current roster, and the players down on the farm ready to make an impact. R\Sox are currently DOA. That’s just more of Cashman’s mumbo-jumbo.
Blake-
Ramirez has been having issues for years now.
It’s not just the spectre of Ozzie. Although I would expect him to make things worse.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 11:55 am
Cash on Montero:
He has a 70 arm and we think he will catch and he can flat out hit.
—
I would like that statement more if he threw in a “for the Yankees” after “catch”.
yeah, I saw an add in the classifieds in the NY Times just yesterday. “Center fielder with power, good defense and speed for sale or trade. Answers to the name of Grandy. Best offer takes it. Call 212-555-1234 and ask for Brian.”
Yeah the remark about Montero’s arm seems like an advertisement. And saying he will catch without adding “for the Yankees” makes it sound like Montero’s available in the right deal.
“8 mil is good for a starter.”
If he costs 8 million …..and if he’s successful. That still affects the payroll though.
MTU<
How are you?, good see you!
GB-
Joba_62 Goin strong #hardworkpaysoff twitvid.com/RF9VZ
Cashman is trying like hell to package Granderson and the remaining 2yrs on his contract in order to upgrade the SP.—
Donnybrook ,,,How do you know this ?? Link ???
Ugh….my trouble with links continues.
Let’s try this one:
http://www.twitvid.com/RF9VZ
Bret,
He didn’t act like Montero was available at all…..
JF,
If depends on how Hal looks at the posting fee also…..look Im cool with them going after him…..but I can’t see how it wont affect the payroll significantly
yeah, I saw an add in the classifieds in the NY Times just yesterday. ?Center fielder with power, good defense and speed for sale or trade. Answers to the name of Grandy. Best offer takes it. Call 212-555-1234 and ask for Brian.?
—-
LOL LOL GB
Luis-
I have ongoing family issues and just returned from tending to them.
Other than that good. You ?
GB7,
“seriously impact”. Your going the Evelyn Wood Route again.
I don’t know why Pujols would go to Miami – from a blue chip organization (St. Lo) to one whose history shows that they are perfectly willing to empty the cubbard every few years; who will field a championship team, and then disassemble it.
Cash isn’t trading Granderson unless the return is enormous
Blake,
Can he afford to be more direct and act like Montero is available?
““seriously impact”. Your going the Evelyn Wood Route again.”
Anyway……
I hate the offseason… although it is absolutely amazing what some of you will take away from benign statements from Cashman. It’s like you have a secret decoder ring for stupid things that Cashman would never say or do… I want one
MTU,
Hope everything turns out well for you and your loved ones. I’ve been really busy, but aside from that very well thank you.
If depends on how Hal looks at the posting fee also…..look Im cool with them going after him…..but I can’t see how it wont affect the payroll significantly
–
He won’t be paid double digits until after the 3rd or 4th year of his deal. The posting fee doesnt count towards the CBA in any form. Would be a good deal.
Joelsherman1 To get Gio from #A’s, #Yankees probably would have do 3-way deal because Oak wants hi-end young OFs and NYY has none at Double-A or higher.
@Joelsherman1 Joel Sherman
To get Gio from #A’s, #Yankees probably would have do 3-way deal because Oak wants hi-end young OFs and NYY has none at Double-A or higher.
JoelSherman1
To get Gio from #A’s, #Yankees probably would have do 3-way deal because Oak wants hi-end young OFs and NYY has none at Double-A or higher.
The decoder ring Always says, “Drink your Ovaltine”.
“He won’t be paid double digits until after the 3rd or 4th year of his deal. The posting fee doesnt count towards the CBA in any form. Would be a good deal.”
They still have to pay it though…..Hal may not see it that way.
Why on God’s green outfield grass would he be trying to package Granderson?????
DONNYBROOK December 6th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
The decoder ring Always says, ?Drink your Ovaltine?.
*******************
Nice.
As I said, all the action at the moment is around Gardner.
I’m not paranoid that Cashman is going to trade Montero, nor would I read anything into that statement, I just would have liked some assurance that he will remain with the Yankees.
Don’t be so quick to dismiss A-Rod to the Marlins.
Cash said he believes Alex will bounce back and be great next season.
He didn’t say “for the Yankees” though!!
DONNYBROOK December 6th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Cashman is trying like hell to package Granderson and the remaining 2yrs on his contract in order to upgrade the SP. Problem is, teams want Gardner. Adding Darvish will not seriously impact the current Yankee payroll or 2014.
___________________________________________________________________________
Where did that one come from? hard for me to belive that Granderson is even a whisper in a conversation.
Of course Beane angles for something the Yankees don’t have. It’s a good negotiating tactic. It just sounds so messy dealing with him.
The White Sox in fact DO need infielders in their system…They are set @ SS with Alexei but are unsettled everywhere else on the infield.
Konerko is on his last legs @ 1B and really is more of a DH at this point. They have no real prospect in the system behind him- so Laird would be a fit here -
Morel is a good glove but his bat is suspect and really lacks the true power of a corner/3B bat- again Laird is a fit here-
And Beckham is about to officially be a bust @ 2B and is backed up on the depth chart by a 64yr old Omar Vizquel making Joseph a nice addition to their system as a LH hitter who has the skillset to develop into above average to elite gaps hitter with developing power entering the AAA level.
LGY-
Why not trade Aroid to the Marlins for a couple of nice pitchers and pay some of Aroid’s salary? Talk about a win win. The Marlins get a star to bring the fans into the park, and the Yanks instantly create payroll flexibility to stay under the 2014 salary cap? Yeah!!!!!
Thanks Luis. Appreciate the kind thoughts. Glad things are going well for you.
Cashman said Montero might be the best bat to come out of Latin America since Cabrera……doesn’t sound like he’s anxious to trade him to me.
They still have to pay it though…..Hal may not see it that way.
–
They do, but its cheaper than free agents. You have to look at the cost of talent under the new CBA. With hard slotting its impossible or close to it for great talent to fall in the draft to the yankees, they are hamstrung on the international free agent market, and free agents will end up with 100%-200% markup due to revenue sharing rebates/luxury tax.
Darvish represents a chance to get a 1st pick type talent at a price that doesn’t bump the luxury tax.
Blake,
Unless you consider the context and timing of the praise. They’re in the middle of the winter meetings.
Love that anyone things A-Rod is moveable…
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Don’t be so quick to dismiss A-Rod to the Marlins.
Cash said he believes Alex will bounce back and be great next season.
He didn’t say “for the Yankees” though!!
—
Thanks for misreading my post and replying like a jackass.
Melkmanisinhotlanta December 6th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
Why not trade Aroid to the Marlins for a couple of nice pitchers and pay some of Aroid’s salary? Talk about a win win. The Marlins get a star to bring the fans into the park, and the Yanks instantly create payroll flexibility to stay under the 2014 salary cap? Yeah!!!!!
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Because it won’t ever happen, there are a core of untouchables the likes of ARod, Cano, Jeter, Tex, Granderson and a few others I didn’t mention that aren’t going anywhere.
How about Gaby Sanchez and the pitcher formerly known as Leo Nunez to the Rays for Big Game James?
Marlins roll out a rotation of Johnson, Sheilds, Anibel, Nolasco… that’s gotta give them a pretty strong chance with the additions (assuming) of Pujols and Reyes.
Rays get an opening in the rotation, cut a little more payroll, get a good closer and a young 1b.
oops just saw that idea has been proposed…my bad!
thinks
jacksquat December 6th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Don’t be so quick to dismiss A-Rod to the Marlins.
Cash said he believes Alex will bounce back and be great next season.
He didn’t say “for the Yankees” though!!
—
Thanks for misreading my post and replying like a jackass.
*********
JF,
Yea I know……one thing about him is that if he posts in January then most teams will already have their budgets set by then.
Brett,
Remember when you were trading Montero for Soria
Blake,
No, I don’t. I surveyed LOHUD. I wanted to trade Gardner for him. That still seems about an even deal.
YankeesPR PSAL Football Championship game later today at Yankee Stadium as Lincoln H.S. and Erasmus Hall will battle it out!
Morel and Beckham are 24 years old. They almost have time to unbust before their retirements. Seriously doubt the sox have given up on them. According to some people, anybody who’s not a superstar by age 24-25 is an automatic bust and totally useless….just like Chamberlain and Hughes.
Not everyone gives up on players as soon as some of you.
Look at Cliff Lee as a perfect example of “not every star is a star at 25″.
Gary December 6th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Because it won’t ever happen, there are a core of untouchables the likes of ARod, Cano, Jeter, Tex, Granderson and a few others I didn’t mention that aren’t going anywhere.
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Perhaps the culture of the NYY has changed with George no longer providing leadership? Who would ever think that they would work the 189m salary cap? Last year, whomever pushed for Soriano has been shut down, otherwise we would have signed Wilson imo. Arod’s home run push has lost a lot of monetary value since we learned of his PEDs. Watching Arod eclipsing the all time steroid king will not be very exciting imo.
jacksquat
I wasn’t directing it to you.
One question on the “great savings” represented by Yu Darvish?
Why is Darvish signing a contract that is worth less money than the contract Dice got 5 years ago?
Chip
Not nearly enough for Shields. Gaby Sanchez isn’t that good.
Chip,
He’s not. Darvish is an overpriced risk.
BloggingBombers Random Winter Meetings sighting: Greg Golson promoting a bat company at the Trade Show.
” Look at Cliff Lee as a perfect example of “not every star is a star at 25?.
True, Yankee fans need to be even more careful about which players’ wives they spit on.
Chip – Because people don’t look up anything around here, they just post stuff straight from the seat of their pants.
Bob Nightengale @BNightengale
The #marlins have offered Pujols a 10 year deal in excess of 200 million. #StLCardinals expected to counter today
23 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone
@YankeeSource
First thing I did when I landed, updates on Darvish. The feeling is he’ll ask for a big deal or stay in Japan for another year.
Why is Darvish signing a contract that is worth less money than the contract Dice got 5 years ago?
–
Worth less? No (well maybe), but equal? Probably. And Daisuke made single digits until the 5th year of his deal.
Melkmanisinhotlanta December 6th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Gary December 6th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Because it won’t ever happen, there are a core of untouchables the likes of ARod, Cano, Jeter, Tex, Granderson and a few others I didn’t mention that aren’t going anywhere.
—————————————————————————————————–
Perhaps the culture of the NYY has changed with George no longer providing leadership? Who would ever think that they would work the 189m salary cap? Last year, whomever pushed for Soriano has been shut down, otherwise we would have signed Wilson imo. Arod’s home run push has lost a lot of monetary value since we learned of his PEDs. Watching Arod eclipsing the all time steroid king will not be very exciting imo.
____________________________________________________________________________
Melk, I think the culture has changed, too early to say good or bad. Will the strategy yield playoff teams most years and no WS titles only time will tell. ARod is a marquee player and here to stay for the balance of his contract. He is a draw and does put fans in the seats. Most of us are hoping that he bounces off what was a tough year for him.
My vote is currently for the “mystery team” to sign pujols. The Marlins are clearly trying to get him signed for at or under $20m/year… The Cardinals haven’t moved their offer since last off-season… seems like the perfect opportunity for someone to come in and steal him.
LostNYY Lost ..
#Yankees Hal would rather trade for Garza than spend the money for Darvish, depending on trade pieces, I probably agree.
And folks – expecting Brian Cashman to be forthright in an interview about who he wants to sign, what players he wants to trade vs. what players he wants to keep and how he feels about his own squad is like expecting that Santa really is going to slide down your chimney on Christmas.
He doesn’t need to put out there something like “Noesi was a find for us last year, but I have questions about whether he can be more and so I’m going to look to trade him ASAP” instead he’s going to say “Hector’s throwing great, mid 90s great stuff…” and why? Because on the off chance that there are other GMs who hear or read that sort of praise and then allow themselves to be talked off asking for Betances and taking back Noesi instead. Would it work? Most likely not. But the guy’s gotta try.
People knocking Darvish, have you ever seen him pitch? He’s really good…
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
@YankeeSource
First thing I did when I landed, updates on Darvish. The feeling is he’ll ask for a big deal or stay in Japan for another year.
**********
Exactly – never understood why people thought Darvish would sign for 8 million a year – the guy is 25 years old – about to enter his prime – could be an ace – those guys get big contracts.
Jerkface December 6th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Why is Darvish signing a contract that is worth less money than the contract Dice got 5 years ago?
–
Worth less? No (well maybe), but equal? Probably. And Daisuke made single digits until the 5th year of his deal.
____________________________________________________________________________
From what I read part of his terms for coming out was that he would get more than Dice-K
And Matsuzaka’s contract would be huge with the new CBA. I mean huge savings-wise compared to the alternatives. 52 million for 6 years is really good.
#Yankees Hal would rather trade for Garza than spend the money for Darvish, depending on trade pieces, I probably agree.
———————–
I agree too !!!!!!
Bret The Hitman December 6th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
LostNYY Lost ..
#Yankees Hal would rather trade for Garza than spend the money for Darvish, depending on trade pieces, I probably agree.
********
Interesting – this is a possible reminder that someone else is always pulling the final string on a transaction. . . .
Jerkface December 6th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
And Matsuzaka’s contract would be huge with the new CBA. I mean huge savings-wise compared to the alternatives. 52 million for 6 years is really good.
*********
And what makes you think he will “settle” for Dice-K’s contract – that was five years ago???
“People knocking Darvish, have you ever seen him pitch? He’s really good…”
I’ve seen him on youtube….have you seen more?
xactly – never understood why people thought Darvish would sign for 8 million a year – the guy is 25 years old – about to enter his prime – could be an ace – those guys get big contracts.
From what I read part of his terms for coming out was that he would get more than Dice-K
–
Matsuzaka made 6 million in his first season and 8 for the next 3 and then 10 and then 12. Darvish made 4 million dollars this season. He will get a raise. It won’t be 3x as much.
And I take any report about Darvish and his contract/posting with a grain of salt. Its all anonymous and theres lots of people with interest on raising the posting fee (which I doubt Darvish cares about because he doesnt see a dime).
You post for Darvish and negotiate with him in good faith and I really don’t see it being a problem.
And what makes you think he will “settle” for Dice-K’s contract – that was five years ago???
—
If he doesn’t let him walk, you get the posting money back and nobody else can sign him until next year.
Would Phelps, Vasquez, and Laird be too much for Garza?
Theo needs to go all Jim Beattie on Luchinno and Henry and Werner and just trade us Garza for a Pedro esque ’97 offseason package (a Pavano and an Armas)
blake December 6th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
Would Phelps, Vasquez, and Laird be too much for Garza?
*********
Based on the comments the past few days – yes, yes it would. . . .
And what makes you think he will “settle” for Dice-K’s contract – that was five years ago???
–
Because he makes 4 million dollars right now. You think he is going to demand 10+ mil? Prices are around the same they were at 5 years ago. He will get a similar contract to Daisuke, book it.
I’ve seen him on youtube….have you seen more?
–
In person and on japanese TV ~= 10 games
green beret you are wrong on this site if you are not an all star by 24 you are a failure.
hughes is 25.. he can win 15 games a year for the next 5 years and people here will be bashing him. since hughes is not the 2nd coming of Clemens he is a bust……..
montero is 21 i think, he has a good arm, problem is his blocking balls etc skill, he will hit we could all see that even in only 80 ab’s for the big club. the guy has hit since he is 16…….
ChiTribRogers
#white sox just traded Sergio Santos to #blue jays for P Nestor Molina Sergio rw
ChiTribRogers
Molina is a 23-year-old Venezuelan with a big future. This is the start of a series of deals for the #white sox, setting up Danks trade.
Jerkface December 6th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
xactly – never understood why people thought Darvish would sign for 8 million a year – the guy is 25 years old – about to enter his prime – could be an ace – those guys get big contracts.
From what I read part of his terms for coming out was that he would get more than Dice-K
–
Matsuzaka made 6 million in his first season and 8 for the next 3 and then 10 and then 12. Darvish made 4 million dollars this season. He will get a raise. It won’t be 3x as much.
And I take any report about Darvish and his contract/posting with a grain of salt. Its all anonymous and theres lots of people with interest on raising the posting fee (which I doubt Darvish cares about because he doesnt see a dime).
You post for Darvish and negotiate with him in good faith and I really don’t see it being a problem.
*********
If you really think Darvish is going to settle for a 2006 negotiated contract terms – then – uhhmm – you see – I have this bridge I want to sell you. . . .
Jerkface December 6th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Why is Darvish signing a contract that is worth less money than the contract Dice got 5 years ago?
–
Worth less? No (well maybe), but equal? Probably. And Daisuke made single digits until the 5th year of his deal.
——–
Why is he even signing an equal deal? Forget talent and age – even if those were totally equal – the price on MLB players has increased over the last 5 years. You can’t get the same level of player in 2011 for what you paid in 2006.
Take a look at what Gil Meche and Ted Lilly got back then as Free Agents – think a comperable pitcher this year would get the same amount of money? No, they would probably get at least 3 or 4 mil per year.
Would Phelps, Vasquez, and Laird be too much for Garza?
————————
Why don’t you just trade the entire AAA roster while you’re at it??
Yank 97 December 6th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
ChiTribRogers
#white sox just traded Sergio Santos to #blue jays for P Nestor Molina Sergio rw
ChiTribRogers
Molina is a 23-year-old Venezuelan with a big future. This is the start of a series of deals for the #white sox, setting up Danks trade.
********
Would have liked Santos – I bet their version of lohud is not crying right now about losing Molina. . . .
“In person and on japanese TV ~= 10 games”
So…..what’d you think?
So…..what’d you think?
–
THEY SHOULD GET HIM, Duh.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 12:50 pm
Would Phelps, Vasquez, and Laird be too much for Garza?
—————
I think Theo would turn to Brian and say, “you know, all these years with Boston you and I couldn’t make trades…and if that’s the kind of crappola you’re offering – we still can’t.”
Yank 97 December 6th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
ChiTribRogers
#white sox just traded Sergio Santos to #blue jays for P Nestor Molina Sergio rw
ChiTribRogers
Molina is a 23-year-old Venezuelan with a big future. This is the start of a series of deals for the #white sox, setting up Danks trade.
*************
Kenny Williams should be able to land a top-25 prospect for Danks.
“Would Phelps, Vasquez, and Laird be too much for Garza?”
Too much.
Laird is a future Youkallis- can hit .300/20 HRs with lots of gap power and play 5 different positions.
Phelps reminds me of Chris Carpenter – good low 90s FB with a knockout curve, great change, good sinker, and plus control.
The WS trade their closer, Sergio Santos for a A-AA pitcher from the Blue Jays.
Now I think the WS are definitely going the rebuilding route.
“THEY SHOULD GET HIM, Duh.,
Jon_Heyman
Gio gonzalez a hot name here. Teams love him. Hed like to go to marlins or yankees if possible.
Morosi reporting that Marlins made Pujols a 10yr offer of over $200 Mill.
Why is he even signing an equal deal? Forget talent and age – even if those were totally equal – the price on MLB players has increased over the last 5 years. You can’t get the same level of player in 2011 for what you paid in 2006.
–
Because thats what he will get and because the price of top talent has not increased over the past 5 years. Mostly its the crappier players like util infielders or mediocre ofers/ifers that are getting odd pay raises. Gil Meche got a million billion dollars from the Royals and he was bad. He would never have got that in this day and age.
I would even throw in Pena or Cervelli to get a deal done for Garza……
GIO WANTS YANKS
Jon_Heyman Jon Heyman
Gio gonzalez a hot name here. Teams love him. Hed like to go to marlins or yankees if possible.
Favorite Retweet Reply
Yank 97 December 6th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Jon_Heyman
Gio gonzalez a hot name here. Teams love him. Hed like to go to marlins or yankees if possible.
********
And the Yankees would like to have him – or Garza – or Danks – or Darvish. . . .
Yank 97 – A future Youkilis? What does that even mean? That he’ll start OBP’ing 50 points higher than he ever has, then get hurt in August every year?
Jon_Heyman
Gio gonzalez a hot name here. Teams love him. Hed like to go to marlins or yankees if possible.
————–
Marlins need to chill out !!! ..:-)
Jerkface December 6th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
And what makes you think he will “settle” for Dice-K’s contract – that was five years ago???
–
Because he makes 4 million dollars right now. You think he is going to demand 10+ mil? Prices are around the same they were at 5 years ago. He will get a similar contract to Daisuke, book it.
———-
By the way – the new CBA (I believe) reads contracts on their AAV not the actual dollars.
And if by similary you mean he’s going to become filthy rich then I agree – if you mean he’s going to take the same contract – oh hells no.
Yankees 2012 Rotation – let me let me let me let me upgrade. . . .
I think trading away Santos makes it obvious the WS won’t be moving Thornton.
If Cashman’s best offer is Romine/Phelps/Laird… he’ll be lucky to get Wandy Rodriguez, let alone Danks, Garza, Gonzalez, Ervin Santana, etc.
Throw in guys like Gardner,Nunez,Betances into the mix… now we’re talking…
I’ll assume Montero/Manny B are off limits for anything mentioned thus far.
By Tim Dierkes [December 6 at 11:46am CST]
The Blue Jays acquired reliever Sergio Santos from the White Sox for righty prospect Nestor Molina, announced the team.
In Santos, 28, the Jays found their closer on the trade market. The converted infielder posted a 3.55 ERA, 13.1 K/9, 4.1 BB/9, 0.85 HR/9, and 43% groundball rate in 63 1/3 innings for the White Sox this year, saving 30 games in 36 tries. He was formerly a shortstop in Toronto’s minor league system from 2006-08. It was surprising to see Santos dealt, as there had been no rumors and he signed a three-year, $8.25MM deal with the Sox in September. The contract includes three club options, so the Blue Jays have cost certainty on Santos potentially through 2017.
Molina, 22, posted a 2.21 ERA, 10.2 K/9, 1.1 BB/9, and 0.6 HR/9 in 130 1/3 innings across High and Double-A this year. Molina is a converted infielder himself, and appears close to MLB-ready. Though Molina was not among the Blue Jays’ top 30 prospects in Baseball America’s handbook before the season, his stock presumably rose with his excellent 2011.
Williams wanted to move Santos, saw the glut of Closers on the market and dumped him post haste.
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
#WhiteSox GM Ken Williams said first move would be telling. Gets top SP prospect Molina. But had Santos for 3/8.25M and 3 club options. #MLB
That’s a power move by the whitesox. You can’t win a WS without a Molina on your roster.
I’ve seen him on youtube….have you seen more?
—
Yep, I’ve watched some streamed games when he starts, including this season’s NPB playoffs.
f you mean he’s going to take the same contract – oh hells no.
–
He will make single digits for the first half of his contract at least.
Good, cheap, young, players are Currently the coin-of-the-realm. You can Not view any deals currently being made a merely face value.
Darvish is not coming to the US and making 80-100 mil on his first contract. He won’t make 70 either. 50-60.
I could totally see Gaby Sanchez for Gio Gonzalez
“Yep, I’ve watched some streamed games when he starts, including this season’s NPB playoffs.”
So do you concur with Face, Jerk?
So do you concur with Face, Jerk?
—
He’s good, I want the Yankees to get him.
“I could totally see Gaby Sanchez for Gio Gonzalez”
Take more than that…..
Irreverent Discourse December 6th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
I think trading away Santos makes it obvious the WS won’t be moving Thornton.
———–
Why does it make that obvious?
The White Sox still have (in addition to Thornton) Crain, Sale and Veal who can give them late inning relief work – if they can unload Thornton’s contract I’m sure that Williams will be open to it. He makes a ton of money to be a LOOGY and he was attrocious as their closer.
just for s and giggles, what are the odds on Hanley not being happy and going to….lets say the Red Sox?
Jerkface December 6th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
f you mean he’s going to take the same contract – oh hells no.
–
He will make single digits for the first half of his contract at least.
————
9.99999 million
Trading Sergio Santos was not on the radar screen. It was always Thornton, Quentin, Danks and Floyd.
The Napoleon Ham Fighters need to make a decision already and post him or not. If they wait until Jan, they will be no money left
Gaby Sanchez is 27 and has a .783 OPS over the past 2 seasons.
Dude is not that good.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
“I could totally see Gaby Sanchez for Gio Gonzalez”
Take more than that…..
———
I think Gaby for Shields makes a ton of sense for both teams.
9.99999 million
–
AAV, maybe.
“I think Gaby for Shields makes a ton of sense for both teams”
That makes no.sense for the Rays.
According to Chastain, the Rays want closer Joakim Soria, top hitting prospect Wil Myers and infield prospect Christian Colon in return for Shields. Now that would be a haul. Can’t blame Andrew Friedman for aiming high here,
9.99999 million
—
Equals 10.
3 and 1/3 + 3 and 1/3 + 3 and 1/3 = 10
1/3 = .33333 repeating
so 3.333333 + 3.333333 + 3.33333 = 9.999999 repeating
Therefore 9.99999 repeating = 10
@DKnobler
Marlins seem to believe they’ll have answer on Pujols this afternoon
Shields for Hanley makes more sense for both teams……if the Rays could afford him.
“just for s and giggles, what are the odds on Hanley not being happy and going to….lets say the Red Sox?”
Honestly, as strange as it sounds, I don’t think the Marlins will want prospects – they’ll probably want a guy they can plug into their rotation right now (or their outfield).
If they wanted prospects, Sox could send Middlebrooks and Bowden to them, but I think they will be looking for ML ready talent. Perhaps a 3-teamer. Garza to FLA, Hanley to BOS, prospects from both teams to the Cubs or something.
Gaby for Shields???? Straight up?????? OK, when do we get the punch line?
That makes no.sense for the Rays.
—————-
LOL.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
“I think Gaby for Shields makes a ton of sense for both teams”
That makes no.sense for the Rays.
———–
Well the proposal I actually floated was Gaby and TPFKA Leo Nunez for Shields. Sanchez gives them a young, good player at a position of need, Nunez fills a hole in their pen – because really you got by with Farnsworth for a year but you’re just toying with the fates. The trade saves them some cash (which they can use on a significant bat – along the lines of J-Roll) and opens up a spot for Matt Moore into the rotation.
Chip-
Have read that Darvish made 4.2M this past season and elsewhere that it was 6M. Matsusaka signed a 6 year 52M contract with 8M in incentives. Darvish will want 10Mx6 years minimum.
BJ UPTON
B.J. Upton is available, but in order for a team to acquire the center fielder, the Rays must get wowed. That rumor jibes with Friedman’s comments last week. When asked about Upton, Friedman did not address Upton, he simply stated that the team was trying to improve its offense.
Darvish made 330 million YEN, which even with a strong YEN vs the dollar is only 4 mil.
@Buster_ESPN
Buster Olney
Scouts with other teams say the White Sox system is barren, and certainly Molina gives them a nice young prospect to grow with.
2 minutes ago via we
Darvish will want 10Mx6 years minimum.
—
Wow I didn’t know we had Darvish’s agent on the blog!
“just for s and giggles, what are the odds on Hanley not being happy and going to….lets say the Red Sox?”
——————————————————-
Honestly, as strange as it sounds, I don’t think the Marlins will want prospects – they’ll probably want a guy they can plug into their rotation right now (or their outfield).
If they wanted prospects, Sox could send Middlebrooks and Bowden to them, but I think they will be looking for ML ready talent. Perhaps a 3-teamer. Garza to FLA, Hanley to BOS, prospects from both teams to the Cubs or something.
————————————————————————–
I would hate to see a happy Hanley in the Al east and not with the Yankees, Its hard to imagine Beantown not thinking about it, if it happens their infield would be no laughing matter….
‘Gaby Sanchez is 27 and has a .783 OPS over the past 2 seasons’.
—————–
Interesting…………..OPS is eveerything
Darvish made 330 million YEN, which even with a strong YEN vs the dollar is only 4 mil.
—
I don’t know what kind of moon money you are talking about but 330 million is a pretty huge number; Darvish is going to demand at least 15 million a year if he comes to MLB
Yankee Trader December 6th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Chip-
Have read that Darvish made 4.2M this past season and elsewhere that it was 6M. Matsusaka signed a 6 year 52M contract with 8M in incentives. Darvish will want 10Mx6 years minimum.
————
I tend to agree.
Kenny flipped a converted infielder/closer in Santos to the Jays for basically a 21-22yr old Hector Noesi….
The bigger picture issue is that the White Sox have a farm system that is virtually barren and they are looking to re-stock it.
Romine-Laird-Mitchell-Warren-Joseph and those types will work for them
CHASE HEADLEY
The Padres have received more than passing interest in Chase Headley, team sources confirmed Monday.
But the Padres won’t part with Headley — who hit .289 with four homers and 44 RBIs — unless they get a ton in return, a source said.
The Padres are in good position to ask for a lot in return for Headley based on the availability of good third baseman this offseason. Aramis Ramirez is the only marquee free agent available this winter.
Headley, who earned $2.54 million last season, is a good hitter and possesses a solid glove.
Sources believe the team’s asking price could scare some potential trade partners off. But without a bonafide ready-to-go prospect, the Padres have no problem with bringing Headley back next season.
Read more: http://www.nctimes.com/blogsne.....z1fmOcrRXU
The Cubs are trying to work on a deal that would send Soriano to the Orioles – according to the report (HardballTalk.com) the Cubs are willing to eat a huge amount of Sori’s contract. See, you can do this if you’re a new GM given latitutde to get out from under a former GM’s mistakes – but (if it happens) I wouldn’t look at it and say “see, we can trade AJ Burnett”
Jerkface-
Nippon Ham Fighters pitcher Yu Darvish smiles a big smile at a press conference in Sapporo, northern Japan, on Thursday Jan. 6, 2011 after a new contract signing that makes him the highest-paid player in Japanese professional baseball. The 24-year-old Darvish was given a $2 million raise Thursday that will bring his annual salary with the Nippon Ham Fighters to $6 million.
champ809 December 6th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Kenny flipped a converted infielder/closer in Santos to the Jays for basically a 21-22yr old Hector Noesi….
The bigger picture issue is that the White Sox have a farm system that is virtually barren and they are looking to re-stock it.
Romine-Laird-Mitchell-Warren-Joseph and those types will work for them
——————-
There is a difference between restocking with quantity and restocking with quality. Now, I’m not saying that those guys aren’t quality minor leaguers, but I can’t imagine a GM would rather take 4 second and third level propsects over 1 top level prospect and 1 or 2 second or third level guys, especially for his best asset.
ANDREW MCCUTCHEN
The Pirates continue to show no interest in trading center fielder Andrew McCutchen, even though early talks on a possible long-term contract showed that the two sides were “not even in the same ballpark,” according to sources. McCutchen isn’t eligible for free agency for another four years, so the Pirates aren’t yet under time pressure to sign him or trade him.
Chip – he got that contract to be their closer and ozzie let him be the closer for like 15 minutes. thornton wasn’t pitching well in general it had nothing to do with him closing or not.
by the time he turned his year around santos had fallen into the role and Ozzie, stubborn as an ox, left Santos in the closer role even though Thornton was outpitching him. Now they move their “extra” closer, Santos (who is not good, stupid Jays), and they can play the guy they wanted to be their closer the whole time… Thornton.
Interesting…………..
————————–
I’m glad you enjoyed my post.
WHITE SOX LOVE TRADE
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
CWS’s scouts view of Molina: Potentially a front-end-rotation guy. 4-pitch mix with great command. Plus makeup and athleticism, as well.
If I’m KW – I ask for Montero and Banuelos – but I hold firm on Betances and Romine and one of the group of Warren/Phelps/Mitchell
“ANDREW MCCUTCHEN”
A Gardner/Nunez/Betances package would be perfect for him.
OPS is not everything, but it is certainly a lot of things. Hitting for average, hitting for power, walking and getting on base are all encompassed in it. For people that are afraid of wOBA and WAR it’s a simple enough number to accept.
Yankee Trader,
You’re right. I was looking at 2010. Confusing my offseasons. He made 6 mil.
eboland11 Erik Boland
Brian Cashman just walked through atrium with phone pressed to ear. No, that is not big news
Cashman spied while tslking on cell pkone. A big deal is brewing.
I’ll bet he’s calling for topless dancers to visit Ken williams in his room.
Gotta get the upper hand on these deals. it’s war and “all things are fair in…..”
Irreverent Discourse December 6th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
Chip – he got that contract to be their closer and ozzie let him be the closer for like 15 minutes. thornton wasn’t pitching well in general it had nothing to do with him closing or not.
by the time he turned his year around santos had fallen into the role and Ozzie, stubborn as an ox, left Santos in the closer role even though Thornton was outpitching him. Now they move their “extra” closer, Santos (who is not good, stupid Jays), and they can play the guy they wanted to be their closer the whole time… Thornton.
—————-
Kenny Williams tell you all that?
POLANCO FOR BENCH?
Jayson Stark
More Polanco: #Phillies have told teams they would eat only about one-third of $6.25 million left on Polanco’s contract es.pn/uTPR6P
3 minutes ago via web
Eroc December 6th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
“ANDREW MCCUTCHEN”
A Gardner/Nunez/Betances package would be perfect for him.
———-
I’m sure the Yankees would think so. The Pirates, not so much – though they did just replace Ronny Cedeno and Chris Snyder with Clint Barmes and Rod Barajas for more money – so who knows.
“CWS’s scouts view of Molina: Potentially a front-end-rotation guy. 4-pitch mix with great command. Plus makeup and athleticism, as well.”
Sounds like a Noesi clone.
Great value for a late inning reliever. We should be able to turn Noesi into Soria if we need to as well.
SANTOS HIGH UPSIDE
Buster Olney
Santos’s numbers from last year were crazy, too: 92 punchouts in 63.1 innings. Remember, he’s only been pitching for a couple of years
Molina was not among the Blue Jays’ top 30 prospects in Baseball America’s handbook before the season, his stock presumably rose with his excellent 2011.
Chip – No, common sense did. Why would they now also move Thornton in a market flooded with closers that cost way more money to replace him? No one else in their bullpen is very good, certainly not closer material.
Polanco.
Would rather have Martin Prado.
White Sox are a bad team they don’t need a 13 mil dollar closer
Sign someone like Luis Ayala or Juan Cruz to close
Irreverent Discourse December 6th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Chip – No, common sense did. Why would they now also move Thornton in a market flooded with closers that cost way more money to replace him? No one else in their bullpen is very good, certainly not closer material.
—————
Well given that they turned a converted position player into a closer it would seem to me that they don’t think they need a high priced reliever to be their closer. Also, as you point out, the market is flooded with guys who are costing a ton of money – maybe they figure that they can get a pretty good return for Thornton who represents a controlled cost at a short number of years from a team that doesn’t want to get mixed up in the kind of contracts that free agent closers are commanding this season.
Much the same reason that the A’s and Rockies have Bailey and Street on the block.
AA strikes again!!
Trades a really good player for a mediocre closer for the 2nd straight season.
ID –
Additionally, as you’ve pointed out in the past, the White Sox are trying to rebuild – rebuilding around a 35 year old expensive relief pitcher doesn’t seem a prudent thing to do when you can get prospects for him.
PeteAbe
If the #WhiteSox are indeed selling, the #RedSox need to look into Carlos Quentin and their bullpen arms
BJ UPTON on the move?
Jon Morosi
Source: #Nats and #Rays have had recent conversations about B.J. Upton.
2 minutes ago via
********
3-way with Gardner+ going to the Nats?
LGY December 6th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
AA strikes again!!
Trades a really good player for a mediocre closer for the 2nd straight season.
————–
He still gets a pass for finding someone to take Vernon Wells and getting Colby Rasmus for nothing.
And, in fairness, when he looked at his roster 1b, C, and DH were already full when he traded for and away Napoli.
How about King Felix and Michael Pineda to the Yankees for Hector Noesi, Phil Hughes, Mason Williams and Gary Sanchez?
Yankees giving up too much you think?
I’ll let you decide if I’m being sarcastic or not.
Bret – If the Yankees were willing to move Montero or Gardner, trade options would be far more plentiful.
How about King Felix and Michael Pineda to the Yankees for Hector Noesi, Phil Hughes, Mason Williams and Gary Sanchez?
————————-
For one of them. that actually isn’t terrible… add a Betances maybe, but it’s not outrageous.
And, in fairness, when he looked at his roster 1b, C, and DH were already full when he traded for and away Napoli.
–
Full of players worse than Napoli.
GreenBeret7 December 6th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Call Pujols’ agent Dan Lozano, king of the hookers.
http://deadspin.com/5861982/da.....e-mountain
Yank 97 December 6th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Bret – If the Yankees were willing to move Montero or Gardner, trade options would be far more plentiful.
————
I think if the Yankees sign Cespedes they will be willing to trade Gardner. I think they would prefer to trade Swisher, but would be willing to move Gardner.
KEPPINGER FOR BENCH?
The San Francisco Giants are trying to shed some of their payroll this winter, and that has them looking to deal infielder Jeff Keppinger
**********
Keppinger, Polanco, Prado – all viable replacements for Eduardo Nunez if Yankees need him in package for top starter.
Jerkface December 6th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
And, in fairness, when he looked at his roster 1b, C, and DH were already full when he traded for and away Napoli.
–
Full of players worse than Napoli.
———
Hindsight is a beautiful thing – I’m sure that after seeing the way this season played out the Angels wish they could hit the undo button too.
I honestly don’t get why Gardner is held in such high-esteem. He is a decent starting outfielder who is 28 and one dimensional.
If he can net you a good starter, why would he be untouchable?
I’d trade Gardner before Betances, honestly.
@DKnobler
Kenny Williams said last month that he’d wait till Jan. to use word “rebuilding.”. Instead used it today after trading Santos
Prado can’t play SS, so if Nunez was gone, would still need a backup SS to fill in for Jeter.
Nats-Yanks-Rays trade makes sense because
1. The Nats are seeking a CF and inquired about Yanks Gardner
2. Nats are talking to Rays about BJ Upton
3. BJ Upton is in a walk year, thus possibly more likely to sign with Yankees over Nats.
Yanks get:
BJ Upton
Nats get:
Brett Gardner + Yanks prospects
Rays get:
Nats prospects
Chip – Well given that they turned a converted position player into a closer it would seem to me that they don’t think they need a high priced reliever to be their closer
They didn’t do this by choice though… they turned him into an RP years ago… then they paid a closer (thornton), then Thornton was getting rocked so they were stuck putting Santos in. It’s not like this was their plan from the get go.
Much the same reason that the A’s and Rockies have Bailey and Street on the block.
Both closers with injury problems that both teams have survived without for extended periods. Why not try to trade them? They at least have relievers in place that have/can close. The A’s have Balfour and Fuentes, the Rockies have Betancourt and maybe Belisle? Behind Thornton the White Sox have nothing. Jesse Crain? meh…
Hindsight is a beautiful thing – I’m sure that after seeing the way this season played out the Angels wish they could hit the undo button too.
—
It was obvious at the time that trading for Vernon Wells was a bad idea, and that Napoli was a much better player than Mathis. It was also pretty obvious at the time that trading Napoli for Francisco was a bad idea.
ET December 6th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
I honestly don’t get why Gardner is held in such high-esteem. He is a decent starting outfielder who is 28 and one dimensional.
If he can net you a good starter, why would he be untouchable?
I’d trade Gardner before Betances, honestly.
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I tend to agree. I think Gardner is a maddening player. His numbers at the end of the season look respectable but that’s because he goes through really hot streaks and then follows them up with stretches where he makes you insane.
I also think people tend to forget he’s not some super young kid who still has a lot of development ahead of him – as you point out – he’s going to be 28 this season. He is what he is.
Yanks get:
BJ Upton
Nats get:
Brett Gardner + Yanks prospects
Rays get:
Nats prospects
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Only downside to your plan is that Brett Gardner is better than B.J. Upton, and cheaper.
Irreverent Discourse December 6th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
Chip – Well given that they turned a converted position player into a closer it would seem to me that they don’t think they need a high priced reliever to be their closer
They didn’t do this by choice though… they turned him into an RP years ago… then they paid a closer (thornton), then Thornton was getting rocked so they were stuck putting Santos in. It’s not like this was their plan from the get go.
Much the same reason that the A’s and Rockies have Bailey and Street on the block.
Both closers with injury problems that both teams have survived without for extended periods. Why not try to trade them? They at least have relievers in place that have/can close. The A’s have Balfour and Fuentes, the Rockies have Betancourt and maybe Belisle? Behind Thornton the White Sox have nothing. Jesse Crain? meh…
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Fair enough – but if (as LGY posted above) Kenny Williams has the White Sox rebuilding – then there’s no point in them hanging onto Thornton at all.
Not that I want him on the Yankees particularly – he makes way too much to be a second lefty out of the pen.
Now Carlos Quentin…that’s another story entirely. Shoot – if I could get Williams to eat a chunk of his salary I would even take a flyer on Alex Rios.
Except Upton had 2x the RBI’s as Gardner and bats righty.
“I also think people tend to forget he’s not some super young kid who still has a lot of development ahead of him – as you point out – he’s going to be 28 this season. He is what he is.”
I agree but to trade him the return would have to be pretty good and you’d have to have a replacement for LF lined up as well……..he’s one of the few guys that offsets the other big salaries.
Patrick December 6th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Yanks get:
BJ Upton
Nats get:
Brett Gardner + Yanks prospects
Rays get:
Nats prospects
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Only downside to your plan is that Brett Gardner is better than B.J. Upton, and cheaper.
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Two problems really:
While Upton’s more talented he’s also a headcase and as much as I think Gardner is overvalued I would rather have him than Upton
The Yankees and Rays aren’t going to make trades with each other.
Chip – Rios has the worst batting stance I’ve ever seen :p Quentin it too all or nothing for me. I don’t see $5.5m/year for Thornton as being prohibitive in any way. If rebuilding is their goal a $5m/year player is not where you start, no matter who it is.
Except Upton had 2x the RBI’s as Gardner and bats righty.
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If RBI’s meant anything at all I would care
Except Upton had 2x the RBI’s as Gardner and bats righty.
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Yankees don’t need help vs lefties, he makes 5+ mil this year and hit .240 .322 .408 .730 the past 3 years. Its a down grade.
I keep getting Ron Dibble and Jim Bowden confused… both were XM guys. Dibble is the idiot, Bowden is decent.
Rays would prolly trade BJ str8 up to the Yankees for Gardner
blake December 6th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
“I also think people tend to forget he’s not some super young kid who still has a lot of development ahead of him – as you point out – he’s going to be 28 this season. He is what he is.”
I agree but to trade him the return would have to be pretty good and you’d have to have a replacement for LF lined up as well……..he’s one of the few guys that offsets the other big salaries.
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Also true – but that’s also an issue – Gardner’s going to start hitting arbitration soon – as his salary increases his value is going to drop off considerably.
jerkface – i dont know, the Rays would have a hard time getting through that negotiation with a straight face.
BJ Upton career OPS+ is 105
BJ Upton high OPS+ is 136
Gardner career OPS+ is 91
High is 105
And Gardner is 1 year older.
But yeah, you’re absolutely right Patrick.
You really showed me.
The Marlins are after everybody. First, Reyes, Bell. then looking at Pujols, Fielder, now Prince Albert….who would be a little old, I’d think.
MLB MLB
Is Pujols close to a deal? Get latest on Albert, Prince and more on @MLB.com #HotStove Live at 2 ET: atmlb.com/u2Alfj
The HR upgrade isn’t sufficient to mess with letting Gardner and prospects go. I believe Cashman is hanging onto All his chips for pitching. Remember, he said “pitching, pitching, pitching”.
If they trade an outfielder they should sign Beltran if he’d accept a 2 year deal…..then sign Cespedes and see what happens……..
I like Bowden…..hes great on the radio.
Two problems really:
While Upton’s more talented he’s also a headcase and as much as I think Gardner is overvalued I would rather have him than Upton
The Yankees and Rays aren’t going to make trades with each other.
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More talent or not, Gardner is a more productive player. He’s far superior in the field, steals more bases, has a higher OBP, hits for a higher average. Also, Upton is entering his third year of arbitration, Gardner doesn’t enter his first until next year (i think). Huge difference in paycheck and a pretty sizeable advantage in on the field performance in favor of Gardner. This is a no brainer, it would be stupid to trade Gardner and pick up Upton not to mention unrealistic, as you point out.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
If they trade an outfielder they should sign Beltran if he’d accept a 2 year deal…..then sign Cespedes and see what happens……..
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As we discussed yesterday – if they deal Gardner and sign Cespedes I would be fine with signing either a low cost (read minor league) contract OF and/or letting Maxwell/Curtis compete and carry the water until Cespedes is ready.
Sign this guy, sign that guy, $$$$. 2014?
Danks is a nice pitcher with something to prove, but not at those prices….Gio has merit in the long run…….GB, if your hanging out , SJ says hey……By the way, his thinking is the same as you & me about the Darvish mania……The Yanks would be taking a huge, a very huge gamble on Darvish as the price tag would be close to CC’s original Yankee contract…..And he ain’t no CC Sabathia….And before you start grilling me Face about all the voodoo economics, 125 million is a 125 million dollars…Bottom line !!!!!!!
Can we get BJs brother instead? Open up the farm system……everyone but Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Romine, Sanchez, Williams, Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Laird, and little Dante are available
But yeah, you’re absolutely right Patrick.
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Why thank you, yes I am!
Look at fWAR for the last 3 years. I’m including plate appearances to give you an idea of how much play time each guy had.
Gardner:
2009: 2.4 WAR, 284 plate appearances
2010: 6.1 WAR, 569 pa
2011: 5.1 WAR, 588 pa
Upton
2009: 2.4 WAR, 626 pa
2010: 4.0 WAR, 610 pa
2011: 4.1 WAR, 640 pa
Gardner is more valuable with less play time. And makes less money. And is under team control for longer. And hasn’t shown any character issues… need i go on?
And before you start grilling me Face about all the voodoo economics, 125 million is a 125 million dollars…Bottom line !!!!!!!
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Darvish won’t cost 125 mil and CC’s original deal was 161 and counts against the luxury tax. Darvish won’t.
Pretty simple to think about the savings there.
Wow Bret, you really proved him wrong with those pointless number you quoted.
Kenny has been around long enough to know that he’s not getting a potential ace level pitcher who is almost ML ready + 2 B+ level prospects in return for a #3 MIDDLE OF THE ROTATION type pitcher coming off an 8-12 4.33era who is an FA after next season in the real world.
Trading Santos actually is sign that Thornton is more available than ever when you consider the a s s backwards logic of having a 35yr old LOOGY commited to 12MM over the next 2yrs for a team that just announced the rebuilding has begun and whose owner has mandated a slashing of the payroll.
No amount of exclamation marks will make putting out ridiculous numbers that aren’t reality true. Even if you wanted to pretend it would cost 125 mil total to get Darvish, it would not be equal to any other players 125, because you dont factor in the luxury tax hit on that TOTAL 125 for the other player.
Pujols will spoil his legacy if he goes to the Marlins – how much money does one need?
jonmorosi
#RedSox have re-signed Andrew Miller.
OPS+ is now a pointless number?
Ok, you really nabbed me there ID.
How could I have been so foolish?
Patrick,
Wow, you proved BJ Upton makes more money.
That’s what happens when you’re more talented.
Bret – Why are you quoting OPS+ for speedy defensive players like Upton and Gardner? Yes, Pointless.
blake December 6th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Can we get BJs brother instead? Open up the farm system……everyone but Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Romine, Sanchez, Williams, Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Laird, and little Dante are available
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Um…so if those guys aren’t available who are you offering? Corban Joseph and Slade Heathcott? I know Kevin Towers and Brian Cashman are buddies, but I don’t see that much of a friends and family discount.
I’d trade Gardner before Betances, honestly.
///
Um, yeah.
Upton had 81 RBI’s. So he’s strictly a speedy/defensive player or do you disregard his bat because it doesn’t fit your argument?
Gotta run…
Have a great day everyone, gotta write up a lab report for my genetics course.
ericns1 December 6th, 2011 at 2:00 pm
Pujols will spoil his legacy if he goes to the Marlins – how much money does one need?
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That argument has never ever worked.
Bret – Run away… lol
Can we get BJs brother instead? Open up the farm system……everyone but Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Romine, Sanchez, Williams, Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Laird, and little Dante are available
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Haha what? Open up the farm system except for your top 10 guys? So that leaves who? J R Murphy and Slade Heathcott? Do you realize that Upton was one of the top 5 most valuable players in the NL this past season? And he’s only 24 and has been showing consistent improvement every year. If the Diamondbacks were open to a trade (they aren’t) I would open up the system for real, everyone is available. I wouldn’t trade EVERY prospect but I’d definitely include Montero and/or Banuelos in a deal to get Justin Upton
Patrick,
Wow, you proved BJ Upton makes more money.
That’s what happens when you’re more talented.
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I proved he makes more money despite being an inferior player. The reason he makes more is because he’s closer to free agency which is also a negative.
How can you be so obtuse? The facts are staring you in the face…
I personally would not trade Gardner .. . he’s a young . speedy , cost effective . GOLD GLOVE caliber outfielder with a decent bat …
If he’s dealt.. .. it better be for a sure lock number 2 .
Bret – Upton bats higher in the lineup than Gardner, he should naturally have more RBI’s regardless of skill. RBI’s have nothing to do with the batter unless they are home runs.
Is there a third stat you would like to complete your strikeout with?
Sign Darvish. The guy has great movement on his pitches.
Please, please, find a sucker for AJ. Can’t take another yr. of pieman throwing beachballs.
He’s got a rock on his shoulders.
Also trade Ohsosorryano. ( not good for Big Apple, IMO )
Gustavo Upton is available for cash only.
I guess the sarcasm in that post wasn’t as obvious as I thought
Bret, Upton is more talented, but I wonder if he’ll ever put it all together.
If someone like Long could help him be more level and shorter to the ball, he might take off. He’s already one of the most natural CF’s in the game – nobody makes those running, over the shoulder bread basket catches like Upton can, and he’s got to be the most effortless guy out there.
The problem is, sometimes his “effort” (quite apart from a sheer athleticism that makes him look “effortless) takes a mini vacation; he actually seems uninterested at times. I don’t know what that’s about, but if you want to take a gamble strictly on talent, Upton would be classic high risk/high reward.
I guess the sarcasm in that post wasn’t as obvious as I thought
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Oops sorry, as I was writing it I was thinking “what, blake is smart how could he be saying this?!”
Bret and ID,
I like to read what you both say. Don’t argue, just disagree.
Our reality is, no one who has any say, cares one whit about what any of us say. Even what I say. Go figure.
Pujols Legacy spoiled by going to the Marlins is ridiculous. Players other than the occasional Jeter never stay with one team anymore.