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A.J. and Gio and the ongoing Pujols Watch

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Blogroll on Dec 07, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Albert Pujols remains the biggest story in baseball this morning, but the biggest story in the Yankees universe is the New York Post report that Brian Cashman has shopped A.J. Burnett on the trade market. 

Everyone had to assume that was the case, but George King added the detail that the Yankees are willing to eat $8 million of the $33 million Burnett is owed these next two years. Just my opinion, but that doesn’t seem like an all-out attempt to dump Burnett. I would guess — and this is absolutely nothing but a guess — that it would take twice that much money (eating $16 million or so) to trade him. Based on his past two years, would you take Burnett at two years, $25 million?

Also gaining some buzz is John Harper’s report that the Oakland asking price for Gio Gonzalez was Jesus Montero, Mason Williams and either Manny Banuelos or Dellin Betances. Yikes. Cashman said last night that there are pitching upgrades available, but only at prices that anyone would turn down. Looks like he’s right.

Other reports suggest both Philadelphia and Detroit have checked on Gonzalez.

As it stands, the Yankees are still quiet, and so is this media workroom as everyone waits for big news out of the Pujols camp.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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135 Responses to “A.J. and Gio and the ongoing Pujols Watch”

  1. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Harper is dumb

  2. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Gio isn’t worth any of these prospects: Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Mason Williams, Sanchez. Just say no to Gio at these ridiculous prices.

  3. Yankee Trader December 7th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    The Braves have set the bar by taking on all of Lowes remaining salary except 5M of the 15M he was owed for a low level Indian’s minor leaguer.

    Since there is such a thing as a “Yankee tax” i would suspect that any team wanting Burnett would want the Yankees to reduce him to a 5-6M/year pitcher, thus taking on27-28M of the remaining 33M contract.

    There is no benefit to taking on a worthless bad contract. In fact as Blake has stated in the past, burnett would no longer be on the 40 man roster and therefore a huge chunk of his salary would no longer be taxed at the new luxury tax rate of 42% of the amount over 178M, until the new rate in 2014 of 50% over 189M.

    Are we correct about this??

  4. Erin December 7th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Also gaining some buzz is John Harper?s report that the Oakland asking price for Gio Gonzalez was Jesus Montero, Mason Williams and either Manny Banuelos or Dellin Betances

    *******************************

    8O

  5. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    I simply think that given the asking price and Beane’s history of trades, we are far better off going for Danks or Garza. The beauty with Gio is the team control you have. But that’s the beauty of the team control for Montero or any of the guys you would give up. Out of that group the one guy I simply am not sold on is Betances, he just reminds me of Daniel Cabrera part 2. Where Banuelous reminds me of a Johan Santana lite repitore. He may not ever come close to it, but I see the probabilty of him being good a lot higher.

  6. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    MLBTR projected the arbitration raises this morning.

    They are projecting about 20 million for the Sox …..when you add that to the 15 or so that Ortiz will get the the Six payroll is already at around 165 million BEFORE they address RF…..their rotation…..or their bullpen.

  7. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Trader,

    I think that’s right unless the new CBA changed it.

  8. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    I would guess — and this is absolutely nothing but a guess — that it would take twice that much money (eating $16 million or so) to trade him. Based on his past two years, would you take Burnett at two years, $25 million?

    Completely agree – there’s no way some team is taking him at 2 years $12.5 per unless the Yankees are taking back a brutal (Rios, Zambrano) contract in return

  9. tucker December 7th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    It doesn’t make sense to dump AJ until you line up a reasonable deal for a more effective starter. The A’s proposal for Gio is a nonstarter. If the Yanks could land Kuroda for 12-13 million per year, then fine. But trading Montero and Co. for Gio makes no sense.

  10. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    They are also predicting 16 or 17 million for the Yanks which puts them at around 189 million or so for now…….dumping AJ coukd cut that.

  11. Yankee Trader December 7th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    The Rockies contacted the Braves to express interest in righty Jair Jurrjens, tweets MLB.com’s Thomas Harding.
    ——————————
    When the Rockies wanted Martin Prado they offered Seth Smith, but the Braves wanted Dexter Fowler, and a trade wasn’t accomplished. Jurrjens might get them Fowler.

  12. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    “It doesn’t make sense to dump AJ until you line up a reasonable deal for a more effective starter”

    I would much rather watch Hector Noesi pitch to a 5 era than to watch AJ Burnett pitch to a 5 era…….and I have a feeling that Noesi would do better than that over a full season.

  13. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 11:38 am
    Gio isn’t worth any of these prospects: Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Mason Williams, Sanchez. Just say no to Gio at these ridiculous prices.
    ///

    If we deal ANY of these players for Gio, I’ll lose respect for Cashman.

    This is just a pile of crap, that we “need” Gio Gonzalez. John Harper has always been rather missing the point in nearly all of his columns. I can’t believe Cashman wouldn’t understand how vital Montero is to the future of the lineup. The idea that a starter – ANY starter – is critical to the Yankees’ future at the loss of a bat like Montero’s, well – that person who thinks like that has not been paying attention to Yankee Universe. Especially since the Yankees are deep in young pitching…

    what kind of moron says “well, we can’t wait for Manny and Dellin, nor assume we’ll ever get anything again out of Hughes/Nova or that Noesi will be anything, even though the B’s COULD be front-end guys in a year, or two at most, and Hughes/Nova could replicate their best, and Noesi could be solid….let’s just assume ALL our draft and IFA hunches have been dramatically wrong and wipe out the Uber Bat that is going to prop up this aging lineup for the next several years and be protection to our ONLY OTHER GREAT young hitter…yea, let’s just get GIO to throw every five days and watch as we reel in No. 28….

    Really?

    It’s true, even though it’s cynical: most people are stupid.

    Sad.

  14. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am
    “It doesn’t make sense to dump AJ until you line up a reasonable deal for a more effective starter”

    I would much rather watch Hector Noesi pitch to a 5 era than to watch AJ Burnett pitch to a 5 era…….and I have a feeling that Noesi would do better than that over a full season.

    —————

    Again though – you’re going to have to take back a lot more than $4 mil/year to get some team to take AJ Burnett.

  15. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Moral of the story is that the Sox are going to have a very tough time staying under the luxury tax threshold unless they fill their holes on the cheap

  16. austinmac December 7th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Phranchise,

    I agree with you on Betances. I am not sold he can harness his stuff. It is possible, but I am not sure it is liekly. I would keep Banuelos. He seems far more likely to reach his potential to me.

    Montero has big value as a hitter, but if he can’t catch, he is a player without a position on the Yankees.

  17. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    “Again though – you’re going to have to take back a lot more than $4 mil/year to get some team to take AJ Burnett.”

    Of course…..and I would.

  18. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    I think the Sox will really falter this offseason.

    Bullpen is a shambles. No closer. Bard stumbled at the end so no longer a sure thing. But past him they may need Aceves as a starter which won’t work for a full year. And then they don’t have anything. Danks? So they either spend or hope for lightening in a bottle. Mets picked up some of the cheaper end closers, eventually the closer depth that was out there will disappear and they either pay up or are stuck. Would be funny to see Soriano opt out next year and end up there. But Bailey is great, when healthy, same for the others in trade talks. And they have minimal to trade outside of using a Youk or Ellsbury. Their other guys are AA type prospects.

    Starters. Still the same. Beckett fat and getting older (was great rebound last year until hurt – who knows), a brittle Bucholz, Lester great and then what????Aceves ? Andrew Miller? They are limited on any other options.

    RF – they can go with Riddickor some one else. That’s the least of the issues.

  19. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 11:49 am
    yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 11:38 am
    Gio isn’t worth any of these prospects: Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Mason Williams, Sanchez. Just say no to Gio at these ridiculous prices.
    ///

    If we deal ANY of these players for Gio, I’ll lose respect for Cashman.

    This is just a pile of crap, that we “need” Gio Gonzalez. John Harper has always been rather missing the point in nearly all of his columns. I can’t believe Cashman wouldn’t understand how vital Montero is to the future of the lineup. The idea that a starter – ANY starter – is critical to the Yankees’ future at the loss of a bat like Montero’s, well – that person who thinks like that has not been paying attention to Yankee Universe. Especially since the Yankees are deep in young pitching…

    what kind of moron says “well, we can’t wait for Manny and Dellin, nor assume we’ll ever get anything again out of Hughes/Nova or that Noesi will be anything, even though the B’s COULD be front-end guys in a year, or two at most, and Hughes/Nova could replicate their best, and Noesi could be solid….let’s just assume ALL our draft and IFA hunches have been dramatically wrong and wipe out the Uber Bat that is going to prop up this aging lineup for the next several years and be protection to our ONLY OTHER GREAT young hitter…yea, let’s just get GIO to throw every five days and watch as we reel in No. 28….

    Really?

    It’s true, even though it’s cynical: most people are stupid.

    Sad.

    ————–

    If Gio is a 25 year old version of today’s Cliff Lee (which is not the same as a 25 year old Cliff Lee) then Billy Beane is right to ask for what he’s asking for.

    It’s a huge gamble, and one that I don’t think Cashman is willing to make.

    I think a fair deal would be:

    Gardner, Betances, Romine, Phelps or Warren and even that’s more than I would give to a pitcher who clearly benefits from a spacious home environment.

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    I’m happy to see Noesi as well. What I wish for Hector is that he throws more quality strikes, and that the velo spike is lasting, because that will help him somewhat when he catches a lot of the plate, especially if he’s mixing it up like he can.

    I also happen to think Phil Hughes, left for dead by those with no attention span, is going to have a strong comeback season.

    I wish AJ the best, whether he remains here or goes elsewhere. If we move him, we become more flexible, but I hope that doesn’t mean we’re making some trade using elite inventory to get the mediocre Gio or Danks. That would suck.

  21. Erin December 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    DavidWaldstein Heard from three people that the Yankees made a posting bid for Japanese shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima to be a utility guy. Career .300 hittr

  22. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 11:52 am
    I think the Sox will really falter this offseason.

    Bullpen is a shambles. No closer. Bard stumbled at the end so no longer a sure thing. But past him they may need Aceves as a starter which won’t work for a full year. And then they don’t have anything. Danks? So they either spend or hope for lightening in a bottle. Mets picked up some of the cheaper end closers, eventually the closer depth that was out there will disappear and they either pay up or are stuck. Would be funny to see Soriano opt out next year and end up there. But Bailey is great, when healthy, same for the others in trade talks. And they have minimal to trade outside of using a Youk or Ellsbury. Their other guys are AA type prospects.

    Starters. Still the same. Beckett fat and getting older (was great rebound last year until hurt – who knows), a brittle Bucholz, Lester great and then what????Aceves ? Andrew Miller? They are limited on any other options.

    RF – they can go with Riddickor some one else. That’s the least of the issues.

    ————–

    Keep in mind, the Red Sox won the winter last year and the Yankees were the team everyone looked at as being in shambles. How did that play out?

  23. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    The Sox will push 200 million if they sign a closer like Madson and a starter like Wilson, Buerle, or Kuroda.

  24. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Blake

    Where do you see the arb things on Mlbtraderumors?

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Chip,

    Sorry, can’t take you seriously when you drop in Betances like he’s just one o’ the boys.

  26. Yankee Trader December 7th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Blake-
    16-17M arbitration cases for Gardner, Martin, Hughes, Chamberlain, Logan, Robertson sounds about right.

    Good review from MLBTRs:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....nkees.html

  27. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    With the A’s already having Suzuki at Catcher, Beane is gonna immediately flip Montero for a buschel basket of young prospects. Forget Beane\Gio folks. Cashman is going at it the right way by concentrating on unloading AJ. The AJ dump would give Cashman some leeway\$$$ regarding other moves. The fact the Yanks are willing to eat a substantial portion of AJ’s contract shows how serious they are about that $189 Mill\2014, and also shows how financially prudent it is to Win the Darvish bidding once it begins. The price in good players\cheap help, for a MLB SP is absolutely ridiculous.

  28. blake December 7th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    LGY,

    Trader has the link there I think.

  29. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Interesting that Gio’s command issues are virtually ignored, whereas any of our not even mlb but milb prospects’ command issues are blown out of proportion. At least the latter are still in the minors; what is Gio’s excuse?

  30. pat December 7th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Marlins move up Reyes press conference from 3pm to 12:15pm.

    Expect Pujols decision and don’t want to take away from Reyes presser no matter which way Alberts decision goes?

  31. tucker December 7th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    If the Yanks don’t trade Noesi, I imagine they will hold on to him as a sixth man and long reliever. In event of he inevitable injury, plug him into the rotation.

  32. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 11:56 am
    Chip,

    Sorry, can’t take you seriously when you drop in Betances like he’s just one o’ the boys.

    ———–

    I’m not, I just would rather part with him than Banuelos (RHP is easier to find)

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Here’s another thing: talented offensive players who aren’t bang up defensive types always seem to unfairly incur the wrath of media and even players.

    Get over your jealousy that someone is that talented, will you?

    Whichever Yankee players are byatching about Montero being a “prima”, my question as management to them is: do you want to f***ing win, or anything?

    How about you take the kid aside and tell him he needs to lose the ‘tude, instead of crying to the pen pushers who are happy to join in and trash the kid because they could never play a sport with a high enough level of coordination to get love?

    Get over your sophomoric fantasy, and you players who resent talented kids that may show some immaturity, how about leading by example and keeping your mouths shut around losers like Harper?

  34. Yankee Trader December 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    LGY and Blake-

    That was an earlier link as I was trying to research what the Yankees have so far in guaranteed contracts. I thought the arb cases would push them higher than 189M?

  35. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    “Interesting that Gio’s command issues are virtually ignored, whereas any of our not even mlb but milb prospects’ command issues are blown out of proportion. At least the latter are still in the minors; what is Gio’s excuse?”

    Its also interesting that Gio is considered a finished product while Yankee youngsters of a similar age are not.

  36. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Pujols is making the Marlins look like fools. Of course, the Marlins did bid against themselves in order to get Reyes so they don’t need any help in that area.

  37. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    “If Gio is a 25 year old version of today’s Cliff Lee (which is not the same as a 25 year old Cliff Lee) then Billy Beane is right to ask for what he’s asking for.”

    Why would we overpay for what Gio isn’t and may never be? I could say the same about any elite prospect’s projected ceiling. Cash would never make such a trade, and you can take that to the bank.

  38. Erin December 7th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Alden_Gonzalez #Angels closing in on C.J., per colleague @JoeFrisaro ~ http://bit.ly/sklh7X #WinterMeetings #Rangers

  39. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Chip – How is GioVERRATED going to change himself from a wild, walking nightmare (4 BB/9 is ATROCIOUS) into Cliff Lee… who never walks anyone, ever.

  40. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    I’m not, I just would rather part with him than Banuelos (RHP is easier to find)
    ///

    Um, guys who are 6-8 and throw like Betances, with ridiculous secondary stuff are not “easy to find”. I saw a similar comment the other day…think it was “dime a dozen.” Other than handedness, this comment has nothing to hang its hat on…it’s devoid of meaning….the righty in question is very good at neutralizing left-handed hitters, btw.

    I’ll be stung big-time if the Yankees cave on Betances, who could be an enormously successful, dominant pitcher for years to come.

  41. jacksquat December 7th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    They should just forget trades and just buy Darvish if they feel they need to do something for the rotation. Gio in the AL East is ~4 ERA pitcher, you don’t trade top top prospects for that.

  42. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Pruf, right, the attitude problem isn’t fatal, if it indeed even exists. Anyone who sanctions trading Montero lacks the comprehension of what that bat will bring. For a pitcher? And not even an ace? No, thank you.

    As for the Alex DH debate; that is just plain stupid. You are going to trade your stud who can give you a decade or more of bat genius in order to get Alex some more DH spots. That makes no good sense.

  43. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Lgy,

    Over to the right on the website there is a link to projected arb salaries

  44. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    You try not to get insulted when horse trading, but Beane’s requested players for Gio is just that. It also shows he doesn’t like the Yanks and would prefer not dealing with them. Probably goes back to the Zito\Mulder days when they blew that 2-0 lead to the Yanks.

  45. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    RHP with ace potential is *not* easy to sign. Here’s an idea: don’t trade either the lefty or the righty elite prospects, who both have higher ceilings than their counterpart.

  46. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Blake, do you think Noesi can give you 200 innings next year? If you honestly believe that he will not struggle like we have seen when we went into a season with Kennedy and Hughes or Joba did, then more power to you. I like Noesi. But as a 6th starter assuming that Garcia won’t last. I am always skeptical on a repeat for Nova and also we are dependent on a Hughes rebound. Really is there anyone you feel 100% confident on next year in that rotation other than CC. And what happens if he gets hurt?

  47. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Its also interesting that Gio is considered a finished product while Yankee youngsters of a similar age are not.

    You keep saying that, no one else here is.

    There is a HUGE difference between prospects like the Yankees have that have never walked guys at an alarming rate needing to “progress” as they move up through the system… as they progress their walk and K rates return to their norms… and GioVERRATED who has always walked more than 4 guy per 9 innings his entire research-able career who has just now gotten back DOWN to that atrocious (and unacceptable) career walk rate after 3 seasons.

    You’re asking Gio to be better than he ever has in his life, and comparing that to yankee prospects who have never pitched that bad in their lives.

  48. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    not easy to *find* (not *sign*)

  49. hardwired7 December 7th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Are the A’s willing to throw in a few boxes of those Dallas Braden “Get Off My Mound” t-shirts?

    Because if so, that would be a pretty sweet deal.

  50. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    “Blake, do you think Noesi can give you 200 innings next year? ”

    No…..but I don’t think that matters as much as people think from your 5th starter. Aj throwing 175-200 crappy innings doesn’t help the team either and he costs a lot more.

  51. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 11:59 am
    Interesting that Gio’s command issues are virtually ignored, whereas any of our not even mlb but milb prospects’ command issues are blown out of proportion. At least the latter are still in the minors; what is Gio’s excuse?
    ////

    x2 ;)

  52. Erin December 7th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    BloggingBombers Talking to people today, I think the Yankees would have to pick up at least $16.5M of A.J. Burnett’s $33M to have a shot at dealing him.

  53. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    The Yankees bid on Nakajima?

    Trading Nunez?

  54. Warning Track Power December 7th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    A.J. can’t go. I want to see him make a big comeback while wearing the pinstripes.
    That being said, I know this game is a business and if the Yankees can get production from another SP that makes less money, then Cashman might go in that direction(Garcia or Colon).

  55. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    “BloggingBombers Talking to people today, I think the Yankees would have to pick up at least $16.5M of A.J. Burnett’s $33M to have a shot at dealing him.”

    So….you save 16.5 million.

  56. DaSaint007 December 7th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    The beauty of FA sigings is that it’s only money, and the Yankees still have enough to sign another arm for a year or two.

    Maybe it’s time to focus on Oswalt, Jackson, or maybe even a 1 year deal with Bedard. Ugh!

  57. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Chip, I stated early on that the Sox rotation was a joke and well overated. Too many assumptions. And they spent money on the pen, just as we had to for years and suffered the same results. How were Danks and Wheeler?

    This year is different. The Yankees had no offense need last year, no bullpen need and the starters were the question. They got a ton of louck with Colon and Garcia, they had 6-7 capable arms. Nova was a blessing.

    The Sox are in a different position. They don’t have Nova, Noesi or the minor leaguers to bring up which is why they went for Miller, Aceves, Wake, Bedard etc. So that issue that killed them didn’t change. Dice K is done, Lackey, Bucholz is still brittle. So they have huge rotation holes and currently only maybe you plug Miller and Aceves in there. Both with no track records as starters. Garcia was simply old, but had a history. Colon was lighteneing in a bottle and only replaced Hughes. The Sox cannot solve their overall bullpen with money, don’t have the minor leaguers and are short a closer. We had bullpen strength. And we had no questions with the offense and added Martin. They still have weakness at C (at leadt defensively) and RF with what depth off the bench?

    The Sox cannot simply spend to address all needs and have no minor leaguers. Therefore, no big signings and they will need to go for a Lidge at closer if someone doesn’t bite on a trade. I see a lot of 1-2 year contracts for a lot of players in bulk and a lot of hope in addressing needs for them next year.

  58. Mike Ri December 7th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Per MlBTR

    The Yankees submitted a posting bid on Japanese shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima with an eye on using him in a utility role, tweets David Waldstein. One person believes the Yankees won the bid, but Waldstein has not yet confirmed that. The Seibu Lions should announce the winning bidder today.

    Does this make Nunez expendable ? if the Yanks did in fact win the bid

  59. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
    Chip – How is GioVERRATED going to change himself from a wild, walking nightmare (4 BB/9 is ATROCIOUS) into Cliff Lee… who never walks anyone, ever.

    ———–

    Take it easy – I’m on the side of the angels on this one – I’m against trading for Gio.

    My point though is that if you’re of the belief (which many are) that he’s a star on the rise and that (as Harper’s sources say in the article) that his walks are the product of being too fine because he knows how small the margin of error is with the A’s and that they will go away when he’s not afraid of getting hit —- side note: that’s awesome, the Yankees are going to trade great guys for a pitcher who is going to automatically get worse because he knows the Yankees are going to score runs for him —- anyway, if you believe all that (which I do not) then Beane is well within his rights to ask for what he’s asking for.

  60. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    “You’re asking Gio to be better than he ever has in his life, and comparing that to yankee prospects who have never pitched that bad in their lives.”

    Huh? So pitching 2 consecutive sub 4 era seasons with 170+ ks in the AL is worse than having better walk rates in the minor leagues?…

  61. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
    “Interesting that Gio’s command issues are virtually ignored, whereas any of our not even mlb but milb prospects’ command issues are blown out of proportion. At least the latter are still in the minors; what is Gio’s excuse?”

    Its also interesting that Gio is considered a finished product while Yankee youngsters of a similar age are not.
    ///

    Dellin Betances is two and half years younger than Gio, missed a season due to elbow ligament surgery, and used that time away from the mound to merely develop a knockout changeup that Gio can only drool over… Let’s get him into the hands of Larry Rothschild and see if the pitching mentor can’t help him return to what he already did in 2010, 6-8, 245 pound frame and all…

  62. EA December 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Even with the walks, Gio is still much better than any of the Yankees young guys. Certainly more durable and proven as well. 200+ innings in back to back seasons. When’s the last time a Yankees youngster has done that?

  63. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    According to ESPN Boston, so take it for what it is worth:

    “The scouting reports on Nakajima were mixed, at best.

    According to one major league source, the Sox evaluators thought Nakajima fell short both offensively and defensively. He was good on balls up the middle, did not have great range to his backhand side, and ranked as an average to slightly below-average runner. Offensively, he had a tendency to bail out on pitches, and the Sox had doubts whether he could hit big-league pitching.”

    http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/.....ma-dubious

  64. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    “Does this make Nunez expendable ?”

    How can they win without Nuney?

  65. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    blake, too me the innings do matter. It did for the Sox when you are trading for guys just to make one start for you the last week of the season. To me if it was simplky the 5th starter cool. But Hughes good for 200, Nova, Garcia and Noesi. An arguement could be made none of them come close. So you need a few extras capable of 140-150 or you run the risk of blowing up the bullpen with innings pitched and have them tired and lost due to injury. It’s all pieces of the puzzle. Innings eaters are huge. I would far prefer Buerhle over AJ, the issue there is the 4 years and he is a lefty with junk, a left handed Garcia, but a bit better.

  66. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Anybody remember when was the last time the Yanks ate a portion of a player’s contract to unload him? Gotta have been a while. Since AJ is a know “head case”, and Now that the cat is outta the bag, AJ’s Really gonna be paranoid. Cashman has gotta move him whatever the Yankee cost\$$$$.

  67. El Duque December 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    We won the bid!

  68. Mike Ri December 7th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    How can they win without Nuney?

    —–

    haha . .true !

  69. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Yankees win rights to Nakajima. Now must negotiate contract. #MLB

    :shock:

  70. Warning Track Power December 7th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    EA December 7th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Even with the walks, Gio is still much better than any of the Yankees young guys. Certainly more durable and proven as well. 200+ innings in back to back seasons. When’s the last time a Yankees youngster has done that?

    ************************************************************************
    I disagree.
    Gio is decent, but forced to choose between him or the young, unproven Yankee prospects, I would choose to let the young kids take the mound.
    Gio is NY would be a disaster.
    Losing some of these young arms via trade would also result in a disaster.

  71. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    # blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    “Interesting that Gio’s command issues are virtually ignored, whereas any of our not even mlb but milb prospects’ command issues are blown out of proportion. At least the latter are still in the minors; what is Gio’s excuse?”

    Its also interesting that Gio is considered a finished product while Yankee youngsters of a similar age are not.
    ________
    Meaning who? Hughes, et al? Or are you referring to our pitching prospects?

    I don’t necessarily consider Gio a finished product, but take umbrage with those who consider our specs as such. Gio had a 5.02 BB/9 in his last milb year, far worse than pitchers like Betances and Banuelos.

  72. Spudz December 7th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Yankees Win Rights To Hiroyuki Nakajima

    11:18am: The Yankees won the rights to negotiate with Nakajima, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. They now have 30 days to work out a deal with him.

    11:08am: The Yankees submitted a posting bid on Japanese shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima with an eye on using him in a utility role, tweets David Waldstein. One person believes the Yankees won the bid, but Waldstein has not yet confirmed that. The Seibu Lions should announce the winning bidder today.

    per mlbtraderumors.com

  73. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Ken Rosenthal’s reporting that the Yankees won the bidding rights – it’s entirely possible that they won these rights, have no intention of signing him but wanted to keep him out of Boston.

  74. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
    RHP with ace potential is *not* easy to sign. Here’s an idea: don’t trade either the lefty or the righty elite prospects, who both have higher ceilings than their counterpart.
    ///

    With the new CBA, we may never be in position to draft an arm like Dellin’s again.

    Love the way he’s “a dime a dozen” to people who have never seen him because he’s right-handed, but Cashman has called him “maybe the best pitching prospect we’ve ever had in the system.”

  75. Spudz December 7th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    I think Darvish will be next

  76. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    “blake, too me the innings do matter. It did for the Sox when you are trading for guys just to make one start for you the last week of the season. ”

    The Yankees have significantly more pitching depth in the upper levels than Boston did……throwing innings is only helpful if they are quality innings that help the team have a chance to win……otherwise all it does is make you lose more games.

  77. yanks 27 December 7th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Nunez is a guy who can hit .270 with 15-20 HRs, 25-30 doubles and steals. I highly doubt this Japanese guy is capable of those numbers. If anything, I’d trade his Japanese guy and keep Nunez.

  78. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    No matter how good you think Gio is, that asking price posted above is ridiculous. I wouldn’t trade Montero straight up for Gio.

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
    @Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Yankees win rights to Nakajima. Now must negotiate contract. #MLB
    ///

    I haven’t looked at reports on this guy, but if he can play the position at all and isn’t a cipher bat, they could potentially use Nunez in a deal.

  80. jacksquat December 7th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    They’re just signing Nakajima to be Yu’s buddy. :)

  81. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Ken Rosenthal’s reporting that the Yankees won the bidding rights – it’s entirely possible that they won these rights, have no intention of signing him but wanted to keep him out of Boston.

    ——

    The Yankees wouldn’t compromise their relations in Japan like that.

    Bad faith and not worth it.

  82. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    If they sign Nakajima it could just mean they convert Nunez to a 4th OF.

  83. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    “I don’t necessarily consider Gio a finished product, but take umbrage with those who consider our specs as such. Gio had a 5.02 BB/9 in his last milb year, far worse than pitchers like Betances and Banuelos”

    What does his walk rate that long ago have to do with anything? Im not saying they should give whatever it takes for Gio or even trade for him at all……he’s just not as bad as you guys are making out……he’s pretty good now and has another level if he coukd improve his command.

  84. Warning Track Power December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Phranchise-I’m also a big fan of Buerhle. I think he could eat a lot of innings in The Bronx.
    At the expense of what pitcher currently on the roster, that is the big question.

    I saw Girardi on ESPN Baseball Tonight recently and he went on and on about having
    depth in the starting rotation.
    Girardi also stated he believes the bullpen is very strong and can be just as good or better
    this coming season.

  85. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    blake – You are completely missing the point. When I can reference 7 years of pitching stats for a player, and that player has never once walked less than 4 guys per 9 innings… and every level he has moved up his walk rate has subsequently skyrocketed and taken a year to come back down to his terrible 4 career walk rate… there is no reason to believe that he will ever resolve this. it’s just how he pitches. also, stop quoting ERA and ERA+ as if they are indicative of future results. People have spent a great deal of time working on other statistics SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE there is no correlation to be found between ERA and future success.

    chip – they will go away when he’s not afraid
    If he’s not comfortable letting guys his in the spacious confines of Oakland, how is he going to react when he has the short porch looming over his shoudler? He’s a terrible pitcher on the road, and that’s who you’ll get all the time if you take him outside of Oakland.

  86. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    yanks27, agree about Nunez.

  87. champ809 December 7th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    The only similarities between Gio and Cliff Lee are that they are lefthanded. period.

    Cliff Lee is a control master with 4-5 pitches in his arsenal.

    Gio is a 2 pitch pitcher with poor command who has more velo on his 4 seamer. On days that the hammer’s not working he’s got nothing else to go to…similar to AJ ironically.

    The only people that see Bettances as a Daniel Cabrera clone are those who’ve never seen him pitch and are woefully uninformed.

  88. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    That Japanese player, (forget his name) that the Twinks played at SS, (till the Yanks broke his leg) was horrible defensively. He couldn’t even turn the pivot. That has gotta make a GM skittish on Japanese infielders.

  89. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
    Ken Rosenthal’s reporting that the Yankees won the bidding rights – it’s entirely possible that they won these rights, have no intention of signing him but wanted to keep him out of Boston.

    ——

    The Yankees wouldn’t compromise their relations in Japan like that.

    Bad faith and not worth it.

    ———–

    Well if Nakajima considers himself a starter and the Yankees consider him a bench player – no contract’s going to get done.

  90. Warning Track Power December 7th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    No matter how good you think Gio is, that asking price posted above is ridiculous. I wouldn’t trade Montero straight up for Gio.

    *************************************************************************
    That’s right. Montero for Gio would be robbery. If Cash pulled the trigger on that trade, he would be fired as GM for the Yankees.

  91. Yankee Trader December 7th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Maybe the Yankees will now make a trade of Núñez to the Braves for Prado

  92. hardwired7 December 7th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    The Red Sox scouts definitely know a good shortstop when they see one. After all, look at the legends they’ve thrown out there since they shipped Nomar out of town.

    Hall of Famers, one and all.

  93. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Donnybrook, really going out on a limb, there.

    I would not trade ANY of Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Sanchez or Williams for this guy. If Cashman doesn’t get that, the Yankees aren’t in good hands, after all.

    We’re talking two potential studs for the rotation, a generational bat that plays an up the middle posiiton, another catcher who optimally may fall slightly short of that description with more athleticism for the catcher position, and a 5-tool CF who may move as fast through through the ranks as he can to run down a shot to the wall.

  94. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    chip – they will go away when he’s not afraid
    If he’s not comfortable letting guys his in the spacious confines of Oakland, how is he going to react when he has the short porch looming over his shoudler? He’s a terrible pitcher on the road, and that’s who you’ll get all the time if you take him outside of Oakland.

    ——————

    Why are you asking me to defend a player I don’t want on the team?

  95. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    “blake – You are completely missing the point.”

    The point is that you are so obsessed with his walk rate that you’re ignoring everything else about him…….lefties often develop command late for various reasons…..they don’t have to have great command growing up…..coaches struggles to refine their deliveries because everything is backwards etc….. it doesn’t mean he will ever be any different than he is now……

  96. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    I don’t necessarily consider Gio a finished product, but take umbrage with those who consider our specs as such. Gio had a 5.02 BB/9 in his last milb year, far worse than pitchers like Betances and Banuelos.

    ————————

    Betances walked 5.0 per 9 last year and Banuelos 4.9.

  97. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    chip – i wasn’t, you brought up this other guys article… which we both clearly believe is bogus :p

  98. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    ID,

    Also….don’t tell me what to quote.

  99. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    -PRUFROCK-
    Point is, it’s an insult and Ends the discussion between Cashman and Beane. Beane must really dislike the Yanks to throw something like that in Cashman’s face.

  100. Nick in SF December 7th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    2009 was the Year of 27:

    “In 2009, Gonzalez put on 27 extra pounds, but that was not necessarily “good” weight, and much of it seemed to go to his posterior, prompting Dallas Braden to say, “It looks like he swallowed two watermelons and they slipped down the backside of his pants.”

    This time, Gonzalez said, “It’s going to my rear, but it’s all muscle.”

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....1M96UN.DTL

  101. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Yankees Trader was mocked by a few on here for suggesting the Yankees make a play for Nakajima.

    Good call YT.

  102. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    blake – walks are the single worst thing a pitcher can do next to giving up home runs. it shoudl never, EVER be overlooked for anything else. When you are talking about trying to predict a pitchers future success, WALK and HOME RUNS are the 2 largest detriments. Gio has gotten by on luck and a sparkling home ERA. Him pitching 200 innings for a bad team means nothing to me, bad teams run bad pitchers out there for 170+ innings every year, that doesn’t make them good pitchers.

    and you’re right, i’m ignoring the fact that he can’t keep runs off the board when he doesn’t pitch in oakland and just focusing on his most career limiting and detrimental lack of skill. walks.

  103. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    blake – ERA and ERA+ are nearly useless for predicting future results, so don’t quote them. you don’t want to look stupid right? don’t quote incorrect stats then.

  104. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    LGY – Whatever gets Nunez off the roster is fine with me. :)

  105. johnfish December 7th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Nunez is a guy who can hit .270 with 15-20 HRs, 25-30 doubles and steals. I highly doubt this Japanese guy is capable of those numbers. If anything, I’d trade his Japanese guy and keep Nunez.
    ——————————————————-

    this “Japanese guy” has hit 20 or more HRs in each of the last 3 seasons, has lifetime BA of .300 with an OBP of .368. And if the Japanese league isn’t the majors, but only AA or AAA, please, when did Nunez approach 20 HRs in the minors? Biggest total was 9 at Trenton.

  106. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Again, whatever you think of Gio, Beane’s asking price is not even in the ballpark.

  107. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    “blake – ERA and ERA+ are nearly useless for predicting future results, so don’t quote them. you don’t want to look stupid right? don’t quote incorrect stats then.”

    Lol

  108. champ809 December 7th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Thanks Irrev

    Away from the coliseum in OAK he’s a league average pitcher not to mention coming into the AL East he’s going to be facing infinitely better lineups in smaller ballparks.

    Other than texas all the ballparks in the AL West are pitchers parks and the lineups are woeful.

    The worst everyday lineup in the AL East ( Orioles ) would be better than every teams lineup in the AL West other than Texas.

    Gio Gonzalez is in no way worth what Beane is demanding for him.

  109. Chip December 7th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
    chip – i wasn’t, you brought up this other guys article… which we both clearly believe is bogus :p

    ————

    I believe the asking price is bogus because I’m not kneeling at the altar of Gio…but my complaint is with those who paint Gonzalez as the next great wonder and then balk at this asking price.

  110. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Trader the prophet.

  111. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Nakajima – 5’11″ 185……. 20 odd homers over there, but a few years of 100+ strikeouts. Just looking at stats I would have liked to have seen a Japaense slap, contact hitter with speed on the bench, just what Nunez provided last year, but with a glove. Seems like he must have a little speed.

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    The only people that see Bettances as a Daniel Cabrera clone are those who’ve never seen him pitch and are woefully uninformed.
    ///

    Champ, this is absolutely correct. I’ve seen Betances live for the past two seasons, so I don’t want to hear regurgitated muck from self-appointed “scouts” who dropped in for a game here and there or, worse, had stringers give them second-hand information.

    Betances is a stud who has five pitches, and whom I saw correct himself more often than not, rendering his delivery more of a temporary inconvenience than the anathema to being even functional as a starter that’s assumed here. He seems to have insight into his tendency to lose his release point. I’m interested to see what Rothschild has in store for him; he helped AJ Burnett :D .

  113. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    blake – laugh it off then, your opinion is sinking like a rock in my eyes. i know you don’t care, but it’s only going to cause more of this pointless arguing. go educate yourself on predictive and non-predictive statistics.

  114. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    “Gio Gonzalez is in no way worth what Beane is demanding for him.”

    I don’t think anybody disputes that……all I would argue is that’s he’s not this terrible pitcher that some are making him out to be.

  115. Pat M. December 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Did Champ just compare Gio ( one of the top lefties in all of baseball ) to AJ Burnett ???? .You folks can spin all the negative slants you want about this guy, but I tell you ….Get a clue, the guy is real good only to get better……If Billy didn’t ask for St Montero just about everyone here would be jumping for joy……The guy is a top end MLB pitcher with a proven track record and is under contract for several more seasons…….In 2010, not many had a problem with moving Montero for a 1/2 season of Cliff Lee or a 1/2 season of Doc Holliday the season before….And that was with more pieces included….I’m not pushing this deal, but your credibility takes a big hit when you rag on Gio’s talents when wearing a blind-man’s glasses…..

  116. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Winning bid was $2 million. So if they like him probably won’t cost them much and if he doesn’t like it he simply doesn’t sign.

  117. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    “blake – laugh it off then, your opinion is sinking like a rock in my eyes. i know you don’t care,”

    No I really don’t.

  118. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    no one is saying he is terrible, just highly overrated.

    he just can’t be expected to repeat any of his success because of his peripheral stats. you don’t pay for the 200+ inning, under 3 ERA pitcher he has been for the last 2 seasons because there is no reason to believe he can keep that up.

  119. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    blake – thats a sad response. i actually enjoyed reading your posts but now that i know you are proud of your lack of understanding, you’ll just be another random poster that doesn’t get taken seriously.

  120. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    @YankeeSource: Nakajima 2011: .297/16/100/21SB – Did pretty well with the new ball.

  121. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    pat m – how is he not like Burnett? 2 pitches, relies on his hook, can’t stop walking guys. sounds to me like the only thing that’s missing is the home runs. when he doesn’t play half his game in Oakland he’ll give those up too.

  122. blake December 7th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    ID,

    Try being less confrontational…..and I understand everything you are saying……I just don’t view it the same way as you……and you have a real problem when people don’t agree with you.

  123. dogface December 7th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Marchand indicating the Yankees may have been the only team to bid on Nakajima.

  124. LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    @BNightengale: Marlins say Hanley Ramirez will def play third base and won’t be traded

  125. Stoneburner December 7th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Pat M. December 7th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
    Did Champ just compare Gio ( one of the top lefties in all of baseball ) to AJ Burnett ???? .You folks can spin all the negative slants you want about this guy, but I tell you ….Get a clue, the guy is real good only to get better……If Billy didn’t ask for St Montero just about everyone here would be jumping for joy……The guy is a top end MLB pitcher with a proven track record and is under contract for several more seasons…….In 2010, not many had a problem with moving Montero for a 1/2 season of Cliff Lee or a 1/2 season of Doc Holliday the season before….And that was with more pieces included….I’m not pushing this deal, but your credibility takes a big hit when you rag on Gio’s talents when wearing a blind-man’s glasses…..

    ***********

    A voice of reason – thank you. . . .

  126. yankeefeminista December 7th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    # LGY December 7th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    I don’t necessarily consider Gio a finished product, but take umbrage with those who consider our specs as such. Gio had a 5.02 BB/9 in his last milb year, far worse than pitchers like Betances and Banuelos.

    ————————

    Betances walked 5.0 per 9 last year and Banuelos 4.9.
    ____
    LGY, in AA Betances was at 4.70, Manny was at 4.91. I wouldn’t include the AAA innings because of the end of season move up and ridiculous sample size. In Dellin’s case 21 IP’s; 34IP’s for Manny. However, next year when they have a longer sample in AAA, then their stats there will be more relevant.

  127. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Somebody offers to sell me a car I like atta riduculous price, I simply walk away. Gio’s good and will get better, but the price? Cashman walked away Long ago. Gio is no longer even on Cashman’s radar screen.

  128. Bret The Hitman December 7th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Pat M.

    People are absolutely wigging out over “St. Montero”. Since when is getting a potential 20 game winner a tragedy? And a lefty to boot?

    Eduardo Nunez is officially on the trade block.

    Maybe he’s a player the Yankees can substitute for Mason Williams in that Oakland package.

    If Cashman counters with Montero + Nunez + Betances, it would be tough for Beane to turn down that deal.

  129. Mike Ri December 7th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    New Post — >

  130. Irreverent Discourse December 7th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    blake – and you have a real problem when people don’t agree with you

    No, i have a real problem when people ignore half of what I say and improperly use stats to make predictions.

  131. J. Alfred Prufrock December 7th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
    -PRUFROCK-
    Point is, it’s an insult and Ends the discussion between Cashman and Beane. Beane must really dislike the Yanks to throw something like that in Cashman’s face.
    ////

    Well, Cash is free to laugh in his face. Let’s hope he does.

  132. Phranchise December 7th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    I’ve seen Betcances enough and you think that the Daniel Cabrera potential is completely unfounded?

    Cabrera 6’7″ 258 lbs fastball high 90s, curve (two ) and change.

    Wild and lots of walks

    Betances 6’8″ 255 lbs fastball mid 90s, curve, changeup.

    Has had issues with control.

    So it is completely absurd that Dellin’s topside is maybe a King Felix on the wayyyy highside and the lowside Daniel Cabrera.

    Not to mention the typical issues for taller pitchers battling control problems?

  133. Pat M. December 7th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Donnybrook….If you’re thinking about buying Jaguar, you must lose the Honda Accord mind set………Bret, good call Hitman

  134. Duh Innings December 7th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    “Yikes” for a lefthanded #2 starter in his mid-20s who has shown he can get it done in the AL?

    Billy Beane’s asking price is perfectly reasonable considering Gonzalez is better than ALL Yankee starters after Sabathia, ALL Red Sox starters save Lester who he could go toe to toe with in an ALCS matchup, ALL free agent starters, Danks, and Floyd (the two Chi-Sox starters rumored to be traded / possibly traded.)

    Gonzalez a Yankee means the Yanks have

    - A #2 to complement Sabathia.

    - One of the best lefthanded starters in the AL if not the best lefthanded starter in the AL after Sabathia.

    - The best and deepest rotation in the division (Sabathia/Gonzalez/Two from the rest of the rotation with Noesi, Banuelos, Warren, and Phelps as plenty of reinforcement.) The Os will still be bad, Toronto will still be an also ran, and Boston will not make the postseason because they have downgrades at manager (divisive idiot fop Valentine) and closer (Bard who is not as good as Paplebon), no bullpen, and a suspect 3-4-5 rotation.

    - Another lefthanded starter against lefty-heavy lineups like Boston.

    - Their starting pitchers for Games 1, 3, and 5 of the 2012 ALDS (Sabathia 1 and 5, Gonzalez 3.)

    - The entire Yankees rotation after Sabathia battling for the final rotation spot.

    Gonzalez ensures the Yanks at least a postseason berth and check this folks:

    2013 is the first year of the wildcard playoff where you don’t even have to finish with the fourth best record in the league to make the postseason. ‘Say the 2013 Yanks won only 87 games but won a wildcard berth and drew the Blue Jays. The Yanks could start Gonzalez in that wildcard game, and who’s to say they wouldn’t have Matt Cain in this rotation?

    If the 2013 Yanks had Cain and started Gonzalez in the wildcard game, the Yanks 2013 ALDS rotation would be barring injury Sabathia/TBD/Cain/Gonzalez on normal rest (day off between Games 1 and 2 or Games 2 and 3)/Sabathia.

    Bottom line is Gonzalez is a guy the Yanks could definitely have in their rotation for the long haul (to me at least half a decade.)

    You have to give up something to get something.

  135. Duh Innings December 7th, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Free agent starting pitchers without options for 2013 courtest of COT’s Baseball Contracts:

    Joe Blanton
    Matt Cain
    Kevin Correia
    John Danks
    Zack Greinke
    Jeremy Guthrie
    Cole Hamels
    Colby Lewis
    Francisco Liriano
    Kyle Lohse
    Derek Lowe
    Shaun Marcum
    Daisuke Matsuzaka
    Brandon McCarthy
    Carl Pavano
    Anibal Sanchez
    Jonathan Sanchez
    Joe Saunders

    Gonzalez is better than everyone above save Cain and Hamels.

    I say trade for Gonzalez now then get rid of Burnett’s 2013 and sign Cain or Hamels for 2013 for this 2013 Yanks World Series contending rotation:

    Sabathia/Cain or Hamels/Gonzalez/ideally Nova and Hughes, but I’d be cool with either and Burnett if Burnett finally had a #2-3 starter like 2012

    ‘Betcha Mo would re-sign for one more year to close for this.


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