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Darvish is in the mix; are the Yankees?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 08, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yu Darvish announced last night that he will be posted to play in the United States, but exactly how aggressive the Yankees will be in their pursuit of the Japanese starter depends on how much you believe Brian Cashman when he says the Yankees are not in a financial position to make a huge splash this offseason.

“Sometimes, if you like somebody a great deal, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to be in a position to participate,” Cashman said. “I think, obviously he’s extremely talented. If he’s going to get posted, it’s going to be interesting to see how this plays out and how everybody on this side of the fence – meaning all Major League clubs – how they decide to or not to participate, and at what level. But that’s all for another day.”

Cashman has not ruled out a pursuit of Darvish. In fact, he’s spoken highly of him, and there are plenty who expect the Yankees to be major players in the Darvish bidding. But this morning, Cashman wouldn’t say whether he’ll submit a bid. In fact, he seemed to be creating the impression that he won’t be especially active in the process by comparing the Darvish situation to when Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado were free agents.

Beltran hit the market when the Yankees had Bernie Williams in center field. Delgado hit when they had Jason Giambi at first base. Now Darvish has hit when the Yankees have CC Sabathia at the top of the rotation and a significant commitments already attached to their payroll.

“We’ve got a lot of depth (in the rotation),” Cashman said. “Can we add to it? We’d like to. But is it realistic? It’s not necessarily that realistic because for me to be able to push through something, I’m probably going to have to overpay to do that. And that’s a tough thing to do, especially when you’re sitting with a lot of talent, a lot of people you could slot in and (have them) do this job. It’s just, do you want to bet on somebody doing it significantly better at the expense of payroll flexibility going forward or (the loss of a prospect in a trade)? I’m OK with the balancing act. I’m OK with the decision making. I didn’t expect much, and it’s hard to improve on what we already have.”

That said, Cashman readily admits that he’s prioritized improving his rotation, and Darvish is certainly the top arm available now that C.J. Wilson and Mark Buehrle have signed with the Angels and Marlins. The Angels and Marlins have been aggressive spenders this winter. Is the potential of Darvish enough to kick the Yankees into action?

“There’s been a lot of discussion over the last few years about him coming over,” Cashman said. “It’s just one of those things where you kind of wait and see if he gets posted, then obviously everybody on this side of the fence will evaluate him about whether they want to participate or not… He’s extremely talented, but in terms of how it transitions and everything else like that, I wouldn’t even want to speculate. He’s obviously got a great deal of ability.”

Associated Press photo

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360 Responses to “Darvish is in the mix; are the Yankees?”

  1. waka flocka December 8th, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Oh yeah what great depth the Yankees have with Garcia, Hughes, Burnett and a few kids who haven’t proven anything at the ML level.

  2. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    There’s a bigger need to add to the outfield depth in the system than another high priced pitcher.

  3. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    What has Darvish proved at the Major League level? The same as Banuelos, Phelps, Mitchell and Warren.

  4. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    What has Darvish proved at the Major League level? The same as Banuelos, Phelps, Mitchell and Warren.

    But when have any of those 4 pitched consecutive sub 2 ERA seasons at AAA? Never.

  5. Joe from Long Island December 8th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    The length of the contract factors into it as well. Cash is big on roster flexibility. As an example, look at AJ’s contract. It’s not the money so much as the fact that they still have to deal with for another two years and the player not producing as hoped for. It’s work to have to jettison that contract/player, in order to move in another one to the rotation.

    GB – I think the question of the Cuban OFs is a lot easier to deal with, for the length of contract issue as well as the more clear need for OF depth, as you stated.

  6. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Even if they had, that’s not relevant at all to them doing it in the Majors.

  7. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    It also looks like none of them have pitched 200 innings either. Curious.

  8. waka flocka December 8th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    What? Gardner and Granderson are entering the primes of their career, fourth outfielders are a dime a dozen, and the Yankees can re-sign Swisher to hold down RF for the next few years if they so desire. How is the OF a higher priority?

  9. m December 8th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Yes, let’s believe every word he says. Why would Cash give out the organizational plan?

  10. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Even if they had, that’s not relevant at all to them doing it in the Majors.

    The statement is implying an equality between them, when there is a huge difference between even Banuelos and any of those other 3. And between Darvish and Banuelos. Just like Montero and Austin Romine and Laird had never hit .300 at the major league level. Didn’t mean they all had an equal chance to be good at the major league level.

  11. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    BloggingBombers Mark Feinsand
    Last day of the Winter Meetings is always a happy one. Right until I saw the “See you next year in Nashville!” sign. Nashville? Noooooo!

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Damned, Mark!! The people of Nashville will remember that time as “The Dark Days In Nashville History” if you don’t bless them with your presence.

  12. Joe from Long Island December 8th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Is the Japan league (whatever it’s called) at the same level as AAA? I’ve seen where it’s been referred to as anywhere from A to AA.

    Kei Igawa was a star in that league. That didn’t translate so well over here.

    Darvish carries his own set of risks for teams.

  13. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Is the Japan league (whatever it’s called) at the same level as AAA? I’ve seen where it’s been referred to as anywhere from A to AA.

    Its AAAA. The between A and AA was the cuban league. You’re confusing foreign lands :)

  14. Joe from Long Island December 8th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Will it be at the Gaylord? That is one heckuva place to have a meeting.

  15. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    jerkface – Darvish’s numbers are only relevant against Japanese hitters who, as a whole, have terrible plate discipline.

  16. Chip December 8th, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Kevin Slowey was traded to the Rockies for Dan Turpen a Rule 5 Pick of the Yankees from last yaer.

  17. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    “Sometimes, if you like somebody a great deal, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to be in a position to participate,” Cashman said. “I think, obviously he’s extremely talented. If he’s going to get posted, it’s going to be interesting to see how this plays out and how everybody on this side of the fence – meaning all Major League clubs – how they decide to or not to participate, and at what level. But that’s all for another day.”
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    It sure has been the season for double talk. For me I’ve grown a little tired of it.

  18. Joe from Long Island December 8th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    No wonder my cuban sandwich tasted funny. Must have been the soy sauce I put on it.

    Either that or the raw tuna instead of ham and pork.

  19. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    If the Yanks are going to spend over $100 mil on international players, I’d prefer that it was in an area of need, not fan want.

  20. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Gary – Double-Talk is business, usually good business. There is nothing to be gained, only lost from all of your enemies knowing the details of your plan.

  21. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    If the Yanks are going to spend over $100 mil on international players, I’d prefer that it was in an area of need, not fan want.

    Yanks desperately need a #2 starter..

  22. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    joe from LI – Raw Tuna and pickles? hmmmm… that sounds revolting and slightly intriguing at the same time.

  23. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    Kei Igawa was good in the NPB but not like super amazing. And even before the Yankees posted for him he was waning (ERA’s over 3.5) and he never had the stellar walk rates of Darvish or any of his other good features.

  24. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Yanks desperately need a #2 starter..

    Desperately? Come on now…

    They have been within 1 game of moving on in the playoffs 2 years in a row.

    The only thing they desperately need is to get to October healthy.

  25. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    The Japanese leagues are so good that the ML washouts like Randy Bush and Tuffy Rhodes can go over there and hit 50+ homers a year and Leon and Leron Lee can become living gods.

  26. Erin December 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 8th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
    No wonder my cuban sandwich tasted funny. Must have been the soy sauce I put on it.

    Either that or the raw tuna instead of ham and pork.

    ****************

    Just…..gross. ;)

  27. blake December 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Im crashing Nashville next year…..anybody know how to make a fake press pass?

  28. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Darvish’s numbers are only relevant against Japanese hitters who, as a whole, have terrible plate discipline.

    And minor leaguers on a whole have terrible plate discipline. Now find american pitchers who come close to putting up Darvish numbers in the minors which is full of inferior players. Its very hard. Darvish has the stuff to succeed in the majors and isn’t a flakey nibbler like Daisuke, who I still think would have been successful if he didn’t go to the red sox who forced him off his routine to adhere to their stupid shoulder program.

  29. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Desperately? Come on now…

    They have been within 1 game of moving on in the playoffs 2 years in a row.

    The only thing they desperately need is to get to October healthy.

    Pick whatever word you want, the Yankees need a #2 starter pretty badly. Right now the rotation is CC Sabathia and 4 back of the rotation starters

  30. 108 stitches December 8th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Cashman has more thinking to do now than he did prior to the meetings. Darvish or no Darvish, it’s Burnett that a decision has to be made with first.
    What players do in spring training and September count for little but Noesi, Warren, Phelps, and Mitchell are on the cusp of being no worse than No. 5 starters or possibly as a long reliever in 2012.
    Betances and Banuelos could show their full potential in AAA during 2012 and be ready in 2013.

  31. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    patrick- It’s unfortunate that you view hughes/Nova that way.

  32. blake December 8th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    “Will it be at the Gaylord? That is one heckuva place to have a meeting.”

    Yea I’ve been there several times…..I don’t think its that bad although its gigantic. There is a really good steakhouse in there……..

  33. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    The Japanese leagues are so good that the ML washouts like Randy Bush and Tuffy Rhodes can go over there and hit 50+ homers a year and Leon and Leron Lee can become living gods.

    Better than the american minor leagues and not every foreign player that goes to Japan succeeds. Old Darrel Rasner did not find the success others did.

  34. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    jerkface – Darvish has the stuff to succeed in the majors and isn’t a flakey nibbler like Daisuk

    Right, he gets by on plus “stuff” while hardly ever hitting his spots. Is “effectively wild” better than nibbling? Darvish is going to come over here and be AJ Burnett. Watch.

  35. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    patrick- It’s unfortunate that you view hughes/Nova that way.

    I just look at the facts, sometimes the truth isn’t what we want to hear.

    Nova and Hughes have done nothing to show they are anything more than 4 or 5 starters.

  36. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Not every minor league player who dominates the minors can come to the majors and succeed. Not every japanese player who does well in Japan is going to succeed in the majors. Its up to the scouts to identify who will succeed and deal accordingly. Thats why I’m confident the Yankees will put a strong bid for Darvish. His build, makeup, stuff, etc are all too good compared to most japanese pitchers.

  37. m December 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    After reading what CB said about Darvish’s mechanics and the potential to leave the ball up, is Darvish the guy you want at #2?

  38. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    patrick – but… neither have any of the pitchers available…. so why go pay for something we may already have?

  39. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Right, he gets by on plus “stuff” while hardly ever hitting his spots. Is “effectively wild” better than nibbling? Darvish is going to come over here and be AJ Burnett. Watch.

    Watch him pitch for an entire game. He will out perform everyone on the Yankees except CC Sabathia.

  40. LGY December 8th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Darvish is going to come over here and be AJ Burnett. Watch.

    ——————-

    Yu are crazy.

  41. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    After reading what CB said about Darvish’s mechanics and the potential to leave the ball up, is Darvish the guy you want at #2?

    He is a power pitcher, he can pitch up in the zone, but he can command low in the zone as well. I’ve seen him a lot so I dunno, I feel absolutely confident in him coming over to the majors.

  42. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    Yu both need to watch him pitch more. I’ve watched all the video i can find on him JF, he is a wild pitcher who get sa lot of strikeouts from bad japanese batters swinging at bad pitches.

    yes, he does look absolutely dominant at times, just like burnett….

  43. Chip December 8th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
    The Japanese leagues are so good that the ML washouts like Randy Bush and Tuffy Rhodes can go over there and hit 50+ homers a year and Leon and Leron Lee can become living gods.

    —————–

    Hideki Matsui and Ichiro seem to be doing quite well in the majors.

    As did Nomo, Kas Sasaki, Shigitoshi Hasagawa

  44. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Yu both need to watch him pitch more. I’ve watched all the video i can find on him JF, he is a wild pitcher who get sa lot of strikeouts from bad japanese batters swinging at bad pitches.

    Having been in japan (like the actual country) and seeing him pitch live 3 times and on jap TV 7 times and in the playoffs this year streaming, I can safely say I’ve probably seen Darvish more than anyone on this blog.

    You need to watch him more. He has more control/command than Burnett, better than anyone on the Yankees outside of CC (and I guess Freddy).

  45. blake December 8th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    I like how Darvish throws the ball…..my biggest concerns are how he will adjust to the ball, the strike zone, and hitters that wont swing at garbage…….Id take the gamble IF Hal realizes and accepts the risk.

  46. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    patrick – but… neither have any of the pitchers available…. so why go pay for something we may already have?

    That’s not the case with Yu Darvish which is why I want the Yankees to get him. Just watch him pitch, he’s better than Hughes or Nova. And his results in NPB speak for themselves

  47. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Having been in japan (like the actual country) and seeing him pitch live 3 times and on jap TV 7 times and in the playoffs this year streaming, I can safely say I’ve probably seen Darvish more than anyone on this blog.

    You need to watch him more. He has more control/command than Burnett, better than anyone on the Yankees outside of CC (and I guess Freddy).

    But he hasn’t proven anything in the MLB therefore he sucks hth

  48. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Hughes, he of the ‘exceptional command & control’, misses his spots all the time. Darvish doesn’t miss as much, and he won’t turn his misses into walks, and he has the power stuff and exceptional breaking pitches to work in the zone even if he misses.

    Totally going to have a better year than Hughes, Nova, Burnett, and Garcia next year.

  49. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    blake December 8th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
    Im crashing Nashville next year…..anybody know how to make a fake press pass?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Track down an out of work Dominican ballplayer in need of a few bucks. I hear that they have connections to getting new identification. Don’t worry…you’ll be out of there before they realize the IDs are phony.

  50. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Yeah I actually feel really bad knocking Hughes since I’ve been following him ever since he was drafted. But the facts remain, he hasn’t shown he’s more than a back end starter. I hope that improves but that’s how you have to look at it right now. Darvish improves the rotation by quite a bit and would actually be a bargain if you consider the luxury tax implications.

  51. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    I have my Tickets!!!!

    March 25th afternoon against Detroit at Steinbrenner. They went on sale on 12/2 and are going fast if anyone is thinking about it. Good tickets are running about $29 this year plus Ticketmaster processing.

  52. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Having been in japan (like the actual country) and seeing him pitch live 3 times and on jap TV 7 times and in the playoffs this year streaming, I can safely say I’ve probably seen Darvish more than anyone on this blog.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    WOW!!! Like the real country of Japan? I’ll bet that you’re one of only a handful of people that have been to the real Japan. Most only get to the fake Japan.

  53. Erin December 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Awesome Gary! :)

  54. LGY December 8th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    At worst Yu will be Dan Haren. Most likely he’s a King Felix clone.

    Sorry, I’m doing it wrong. That only works for Yankee prospects.

  55. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    Chip – If someone was talking to you about american baseball being terrible and you said “well this pujols guy is good” does that tell you anything about the other 1600 players in the league? You’d look at that person… funny…

    JF – It would be a drastic difference from what I’ve seen… I’m not willing to spend $100-$120mil to find out.

  56. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    GB7 – stop being such an ass.

  57. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    WOW!!! Like the real country of Japan? I’ll bet that you’re one of only a handful of people that have been to the real Japan. Most only get to the fake Japan.

    Yea like you, visiting Japan from the comfort of your internet so you can tell us how much better David Phelps is than Yu Darvish.

  58. LGY December 8th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Dexter once went to Paris to take out a victim.

    Face did his work in Japan. Interesting.

  59. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    JF – It would be a drastic difference from what I’ve seen… I’m not willing to spend $100-$120mil to find out.

    Thankfully it’s not your money !

  60. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    LGY – So…. jerkface is a terrible actor?

  61. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Face did his work in Japan. Interesting.

    Face is definitely a possible serial killer

  62. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    patrick – thankfully I don’t think the people with the money would take this risk either.

  63. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    It would be a drastic difference from what I’ve seen

    Thats because you’ve seen a bunch of youtube video reels. Watch Darvish work over an entire game.

  64. blake December 8th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    “Sorry, I’m doing it wrong. That only works for Yankee prospects.”

    The obvious solution to all of this is to sign Darvish ……then put him in the Yankee minor leagues for awhile first……..then there is no way he can miss :)

  65. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    patrick – thankfully I don’t think the people with the money would take this risk either.

    I hope you are wrong, Darvish would improve this team quite a bit.

  66. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
    WOW!!! Like the real country of Japan? I’ll bet that you’re one of only a handful of people that have been to the real Japan. Most only get to the fake Japan.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Well I went there more times than I’d like to have. It’s neat the first few times, but it gets old in a hurry. Ants and Americans for the most part, we look like trees amongst the masses in the subway stations. :-)

  67. LGY December 8th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    LGY – So…. jerkface is a terrible actor?

    ——————-

    Dexter is an actor???

  68. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    patrick – I consider spending $100mil on a player with this many question marks a really bad decision.

  69. tomingeorgia December 8th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    I have never understood this #2 or #4 stuff. Anybody in your rotation is going to pitch every fifth day and get around 30+ starts. What’s the difference between having an ace followed by a 2, 3 and 4, and having an ace followed by three #3s? If the baseball people running a major league team can’t figure it out, why should I. This is not to say that they should not replace a starter with, in their opinion, a “better” one. It’s just this 2, 3, and 4 business that bothers me.

  70. blake December 8th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Bobby Valentine has seen Darvish a lot and he thinks he’s one of the best 4 pitchers in the world ……and we know how tough he is on evaluating Japanese players…

  71. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    It’s neat the first few times, but it gets old in a hurry.

    Sorry, Yakiniku, chuhi, and onsens are the best. They simply arent available enough in America for me to forsake glorious nippon.

  72. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    “patrick – I consider spending $100mil on a player with this many question marks a really bad decision.”

    There really aren’t that many question marks though. Young, healthy, talented, has shown insanely good results, has great stuff, good mechanics, etc. I don’t see the problem.

    “I have never understood this #2 or #4 stuff”

    It’s just a way of generalizing pitchers without quoting their stats every 2 seconds. Perhaps I should say the Yankees have 1 ace and 4 mediocre starters behind him. It’s a definite area of need, lets put it that way.

  73. Pat M. December 8th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    LGY…….Are you selling Darvish in the same area code as King Felix ???? I’ve watched as much video on this guy as available, in fact I’ve watched them several times….And I have agreed with Face about the guy having great upside…….However the absurd fever created by the unknown is just that, absurd and your post confirms this…….My issue is the 120 plus million dollars it’s going to cost and yes Jerkface that is real dollars for a guy who will have to adjust to pitching on 4 days, travel beyond the parameters of Japan which is about the size of California…..Then you have to face MLB lineups every 5th day which is the equivalent of facing the Japanese All-Star team…….Can he hold up to make 33-35 starts ???? He most likey can in time and will be successful…..But will the return exceed the investment ????? Then again, it’s not your 120 plus million real dollars at stake……

  74. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    It’s just this 2, 3, and 4 business that bothers me.

    Its just short hand for the potential of a pitcher. #1 starter = Ace, top 15-20 quality, the best teams probably want a top 10 type. #2 = #1 ability but less consistency, or more consistent ability to pitch at a higher level than the rest of the categories but not as well as a #1. #3, a guy who gives innings and doesnt suck. #4, a guy who doesnt suck. #5 a guy who gives innings (prolly sucks).

    I don’t think you build a rotation to have all of them, ideally you’d have 5 #1′s. But for projecting players its an easy way to say ‘This guy probably is going to be average’.

  75. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Pat M,

    LGY was making a joke that if Darvish were a Yankee prospect a lot of people on this blog would think he was going to be the next King Felix. I don’t think any of us think he’ll be as good as Hernandez

  76. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Also different number starters are valuable to different clubs. Rebuilding teams want cheap #3′s and #4′s since they arent competing yet. Or pitchers with 1/2 upside. The Yankees want #1′s like *right now*

  77. m December 8th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Yes, you are doing it wrong. People knock the Yankee prospects and put other players on pedestals.

    tomingeorgia,

    Valid post. In this case, the whole mantra is we need a clear #2, since AJ, Hughes, and Nova aint cutting it. Also, you’re not going to want to bid up to $50M, and then give another $50M to a #3 or #4. We got those. That’s the debate. Yes, he’s good. But can he be THAT guy we’ve been missing. Hard to believe we can’t find one in the states.

  78. Hassey December 8th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    I am going to get absolutely BOMBED tonight – I apologize to all of you in advance if I drunk-dial-post

  79. m December 8th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Pat M.

    Poor Pau. Talk is of a 3-team trade with him going to Houston. :(

  80. m December 8th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    And I don’t want Paul without an extension. Hopefully, just being in the same area code as Magic will do the trick.

  81. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
    It’s neat the first few times, but it gets old in a hurry.

    Sorry, Yakiniku, chuhi, and onsens are the best. They simply arent available enough in America for me to forsake glorious nippon.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I ate most everything, most of the food never bothered me. Sushi at the train station on the way back to the Hotel was always something to look forward to. I was especially fond of most of the noodles, Udon and Soba in particular. If I was doing the cook at the table stuff, we found either a Teppanyaki place (always went to a place called the green seahorse, no english or plastic food, but the guy just said steak and we said Hai) or went for Shabu Shabu instead of the Yakiniku. Thanks for the oportunity to relive some of those times. I bought a fair number of the ceremonial mellons to take to Japanese Houses, $28 for a honeydew such a deal.

  82. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    Hard to believe we can’t find one in the states.

    Well we can, but the price in prospects is too much. Cash has already said he has trades on the table that would improve the team but he hasn’t done them because the price is just too high.

    Think about it like this – if the Yankees bid $40 million and win the rights for Darvish do you really think that will have an effect on the payroll? The answer is no, the Yankees have that money. Also keep in mind the $40 million has no bearing on how luxury tax is calculate.

    Then you have Darvish’s actual contract which will probably be similar to what Matsuzaka got. If you look at the contract alone it will actually be a good deal for a pitcher of Darvish’s caliber.

  83. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Throw in the larger baseball and lower mound in the ML and that adds more questions to the equation. Will he adapt well enough to deal with all of that? Will he be able to deal with an ugly divorce, not knowing the culture in a strange country? Just because his parents went to school in the US doesn’t mean that he did. Will he be able to deal with a nasty media or fan base when Darvish has a bad stretch? With the Middle East tensions and the troubles between the US and Iran give him problems? That’s a lot of issues.

  84. m December 8th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    We had this discussion way back. Because many said he could be a front-line starter, and I questioned that. Too many questions at this point.

    But hey, it’s not my money!

  85. Chip December 8th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    Chip – If someone was talking to you about american baseball being terrible and you said “well this pujols guy is good” does that tell you anything about the other 1600 players in the league? You’d look at that person… funny…

    ————-

    Look – I’m as skeptical of Japanese pitchers as I am of National League pitchers – but just like NL pitchers I don’t consider them all to be the same. There are exceptions to every rule and, based on the limited video and reports I’ve seen of Darvish, he could be one of those exceptions. Just as I would take a chance on Clayton Kershaw or Cole Hamels not coming to the AL East and turning into Kevin Brown or Javy Vazquez.

  86. m December 8th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Didn’t they use they bigger ball this past year? I was surprised to read that the hitters had a hard time with it (Nakashima didn’t apparently). I would have thought the pitchers would have had a rough time (Yu didn’t apparently).

  87. Chip December 8th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    Throw in the larger baseball and lower mound in the ML and that adds more questions to the equation. Will he adapt well enough to deal with all of that? Will he be able to deal with an ugly divorce, not knowing the culture in a strange country? Just because his parents went to school in the US doesn’t mean that he did. Will he be able to deal with a nasty media or fan base when Darvish has a bad stretch? With the Middle East tensions and the troubles between the US and Iran give him problems? That’s a lot of issues.

    ———————

    It’s not like relations between Venezuela and the US are so great – does that give you pause on calling up Montero?

    Cuban/US relations aren’t warm and fuzzy – do you not want Cespedes.

    Come with something better than veiled racism.

  88. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    To Pat M and all other Darvish skeptics (and anyone else): in your opinion, what will the winning bid be for him and which team will make that bid?

  89. m December 8th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    $45M bid Yanquis (as they say in Cuba)

  90. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Unbelievable that you skipped yakiniku :x That stuff is ridiculous good. New Yorkers can hit up gyu-kaku in mid town/times square/union square, good restaurant.

  91. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Chimp, what “veiled racism” would that be?

  92. tomingeorgia December 8th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    m,
    Is a sixteen-game winner a #?

  93. m December 8th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    But the club rejects the bid as they don’t like Cash’s budget talk. :(

  94. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Darvish flames out due to stuxnet virus turing him into a knuckleballer. I don’t think the Yankees have to worry about US-Iran politics interfering with their hurler.

  95. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    It’s not like relations between Venezuela and the US are so great – does that give you pause on calling up Montero?

    Cuban/US relations aren’t warm and fuzzy – do you not want Cespedes.

    Come with something better than veiled racism.

    Haha nice.

    You can literally make up a dozen “problems” for every player joining a new team. Oh no how will Albert Pujols deal with playing in Anaheim!? It’s rumored that he has a phobia of monkeys, I suspect his clutch numbers will fall drastically. And how will he react to the fanbase in California? They are so laid back and he’s used to dedicated St. Louis fans! Spells trouble to me

  96. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
    Unbelievable that you skipped yakiniku That stuff is ridiculous good. New Yorkers can hit up gyu-kaku in mid town/times square/union square, good restaurant.
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    I’ve had it but not one of my favorites. Somethings I just never got into like slurping Tofu, pickled eel, jellyfish. Boy I love Sashimi, more so the thin slices, not so much (see a little Japanese english there) the Tuna.

  97. jacksquat December 8th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    $55,555,555 Yankees

    Just a guess, I really have no idea. Can’t ever tell what Cashman is going to do.

  98. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    It’s amazing anyone bothers talking to GB7 when he can’t go 2 sentences without mocking the person.

  99. Pat M. December 8th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Nick in SF…..The winning bid will be north of 60 million real dollars….And Face, one thing I have noticed about your client, he leaves a lot of breaking balls up….That will fly in the MLB, into the upper decks….He’s going to cost over 120 million dollars when it’s all said and done …..That’s my issue …..

  100. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    I doubt that everybody that’s drooling, ranting, panting and raving over Darvish would react the same way if the Yankees offered that kind of money to a player out of college, independent leagues or semi-pro leagues that put up numbers like that. You’d be roasting Cashman.

  101. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    I doubt that everybody that’s drooling, ranting, panting and raving over Darvish would react the same way if the Yankees offered that kind of money to a player out of college, independent leagues or semi-pro leagues that put up numbers like that. You’d be roasting Cashman.

    Independent and semi-pro leagues are trash. If the Yankees offered Stephen Strasburg 50 mil and his college 50 mil to get him before he was draft eligible I’d be all for that.

  102. Wave Your Hat December 8th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    I haven’t been around in a while so maybe this Darvish scouting report is old news to you guys but it’s fairly comprehensive:

    http://projectprospect.com/art.....um=twitter

    Bottom line, not an ace but a solid 4.0 WAR, middle of the rotation starter in MLB. Depending on the price (4.0 WAR is worth $18M, give or take) I’d say go for it.

  103. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    jacksquat December 8th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
    $55,555,555 Yankees

    Just a guess, I really have no idea. Can’t ever tell what Cashman is going to do.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    He’s bidding I think you can at least see through that. I liken this to the programs on HGTV, the one’s where the Canadian realtors tell the clients there are multiple bidders, if you want the house you need to make a your best/strong offer.

    I like all the 5′s why not

  104. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    How will Darvish cope with no J pop radio stations in America? Lets pray he has music already loaded on his ipod or his career could be in danger

  105. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
    It’s amazing anyone bothers talking to GB7 when he can’t go 2 sentences without mocking the person.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Not everyone can be as courtious, polite and without fault as you.

  106. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    I doubt that everybody that’s drooling, ranting, panting and raving over Darvish would react the same way if the Yankees offered that kind of money to a player out of college, independent leagues or semi-pro leagues that put up numbers like that. You’d be roasting Cashman.

    If Strasburg was a free agent out of college I’d be pretty stoked if Cash offered him huge money and signed him

  107. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    And Face, one thing I have noticed about your client, he leaves a lot of breaking balls up

    Watch a full game, his breaking stuff is good, I don’t know what highlights you’re watching where he leaves stuff up but he keeps his offspeed down in the zone.

  108. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    $60M is a lot of money. Given the understandable concerns I’m reading here, does it make sense for any team to take such a gamble? What teams can afford to be wrong on Yu?

  109. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
    It’s amazing anyone bothers talking to GB7 when he can’t go 2 sentences without mocking the person.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Curious were you in a past life Red Robin?

  110. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    GB7 – Maybe you should start taking notes.

    Gary – No?

  111. Red Robin December 8th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Did someone mention my name ?

  112. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Nick – A team that it would be a significant upgrade for that had no other possibles? It’s still risky but at least starts approaching the “worth it” category. For the Yankees… they have 4 guys that could all be Yu Darvish or better in 2 years… hard to justify IMO.

  113. Gary December 8th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
    $60M is a lot of money. Given the understandable concerns I’m reading here, does it make sense for any team to take such a gamble? What teams can afford to be wrong on Yu?

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Nick the national debt clock is over $15 Trillion today. now that is alot of money. :-)

  114. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Gary – See what you did now…

  115. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Strasburg was drafted, not posted in a blind auction. Very different system. Yanks aren’t drafting in the Strasburg level these days.

  116. 4 NYY December 8th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Some will be right, some will be wrong.

    I’m with Yu !

    Guessing 40 million posting, 40 million signing.

  117. Red Robin December 8th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Let me venture another wild guess :

    Nothing of importance to report from the Yankee front today (?)

  118. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    they have 4 guys that could all be Yu Darvish or better in 2 years

    Who are all these people. We can just get Yu Darvish now.

  119. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    “Who are all these people. We can just get Yu Darvish now.”

    Let me guess: Hughes, Nova, Betances, Banuelos

  120. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    Hughes and Betances both have a chance to be pitching in japan in 2 years.

  121. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    A Yu in the hand is worth two Yu in Scranton.

  122. PittsburghYankeeFan December 8th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    I can’t live without Yu.

    OK–got it out of my system (for all of 2 minutes).

    If the Yankees sign him (which I think is happening), this blog will explode with Yu puns. I’m not sure that is for the best….

    In all seriousness, signing Yu means blocking progression of the farm guys. It would likely mean a midseason jettison of AJ (or Hughes if he cannot produce).

  123. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
    GB7 – Maybe you should start taking notes.

    Gary – No?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    For what? To be a self-loving, obnoxious jerk like you? I know that I’m an ass, but, I’m not that.

  124. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Hughes and Betances both have a chance to be pitching in japan in 2 years.

    Hughes maybe. Betances only if he follows Daniel Cabrera’s career path (well on his way)

  125. m December 8th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    If we can put up with phun stuph like we went through with Phil Hughes, then we can handle Yu.

    Just not too much Yu.

  126. austinmac December 8th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    It’s as simple as this regarding Darvish. If the Yankees believe he is a probable high end starter, I very much hope they go after him. Whether they really see him that way, I don’t know. They well may see too high a risk.

    I have doubts the Yankees will want to spend significant money, preferring low cost options while seeking to reduce payroll.

  127. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Yeah, it could be not as high as Dice-K – about 42-45 million and that much again in the contract?

    But then again, there will be one crazy team willing to go 60 million. It won’t be the Yankees.

  128. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Reduce payroll?! We are the evil guddamn empire! No reducing payroll!

  129. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    John McEnroe: “Yu cannot be serious!”

  130. Pat M. December 8th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Wave, good to see you around for such a spirited debate……100 + million for Strasburg or 100 + million for Yu…..I’ll take the kid from San Diego

  131. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    Darvish is posted
    Lohud blog cannot agree
    Yu will be a Yank

  132. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    I think that people will look back on the Matsuzaka thing – remember all the hype, the gyro pitch, the expectation that he could b an ace; they will see that the winning bid was $20 million over the next bid (so it didn’t need to be as high as it was); and they will review the actual experience of Dice-K pitching for the Sox, which was very much a mixed bag, and certainly did not meet those grand expectations. That is why I think this bidding will really have nothing to do with what Matsuzaka got. And it is why it think the bid will not exceed what Matsukaza got.

    However, I do expect the one crazy team thing, so, the question is which team is wiling to be crazy?

  133. RMS December 8th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    CC-Ace

    Nova-should continue to get better

    Hughes-? but has something to prove

    AJ-? gives you innings, that’s about it

    Garcia- will he be as good as last year?

    Cashman is satisfied with this rotation?

  134. jacksquat December 8th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Of course Japanese hitters swing at more bad pitches than MLB hitters do, that’s why his ERA won’t be 1.44 in MLB. It doesn’t mean his ERA can’t be under 4 though.

  135. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    Wave, good to see you around for such a spirited debate……100 + million for Strasburg or 100 + million for Yu…..I’ll take the kid from San Diego

    Now which one is available for the Yankees to actually get? Thats why they need to get Darvish.

  136. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Pat M, how is Strasburg an option or an apt comp? I don’t get it. The Yanks can’t get a Strasburg in the draft.

  137. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Pat M, how is Strasburg an option or an apt comp? I don’t get it. The Yanks can’t get a Strasburg in the draft.

    I made the comp because GB7 created some elaborate strawman where everyone who is pro-Darvish would OBVIOUSLY be against the Yankees paying millions to get a college player. Which simply isn’t true. Its just not available to them.

  138. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Pat M, how is Strasburg an option or an apt comp? I don’t get it. The Yanks can’t get a Strasburg in the draft.

    GB7 said earlier that if Cashman offered big bucks to a college player or someone out of the independent leagues we would all be roasting Cash. That’s not a valid comparison because salaries on drafted players are artificially supressed. So I made the jump to say “well if a guy like strasburg coming out of college is a free agent, I would have no problem with Cashman spending huge money, just like I have no problem with him spending big bucks on Darvish”…..

  139. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Darvish is just so much money – he’s an ace in Japan, so you really do have to respect that, but there are no guarantees to how he will do here, so you want to hedge your bets a little. I guess the posting fee reflects the “ace in Japan” part, but then the contract should be a reflection of the risk the MLB team is making.

  140. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Even when you pay big bucks for a college phenom, the guy isn’t starting in the major leagues right away. Darvish will expect to be on the ML starting rotation, no?

  141. Wave Your Hat December 8th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Pat M-

    I’m not really around for the debate. I’d prefer Gonzalez or Danks, but the Yanks need another pitcher and you have to admit Darvish would be fun to watch. Let the games begin.

  142. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    You have to ignore the posting fee. It will really have no impact on the Yankees future payroll whatsoever. Think about the contract Darvish will get once a team wins his rights, it’s not going to be that much.

  143. Pat M. December 8th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Nick in SF….A point of reference in talent being somebody brought up his name earlier……Besides, we’ve seen a sample of what he can do in the bigs………Bottom line is this, Japanese pitchers get away with mistakes all the time, not so here……Once again, I like this guy and some guys who earn a paycheck being in baseball like this guy also…….But the price in capital will be high and the question is will the return be nearly worth it….This varies from club to club, but in NYC and especially Yankee fans there’s very little room for understanding….Can you imagine what will be going thru Yu’s head when he hears 50,000 people cascading boos upon him….Has he even read a harsh word written about him…..

  144. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Ok, so we can spend it all on Strasburg in fantasy land; in the real world, we get potential studs through other means.

    Maybe Cashman needs to conduct a cost/benefit analysis on this Darvish business.

  145. blake December 8th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    “You have to ignore the posting fee. It will really have no impact on the Yankees future payroll whatsoever. Think about the contract Darvish will get once a team wins his rights, it’s not going to be that much”

    Im not sure this is true…..it is technically but it all depends on how Hal feels about spending that money up front. Just because it wont be taxed doesn’t mean it’s still not 50 million bucks…….it’s however who is paying it looks at it.

  146. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Besides, we’ve seen a sample of what he can do in the bigs

    Has he even read a harsh word written about him…..

    Well duh, but you’d have to spend the 100 mil on strasberg before he hit the majors. Thats the risk. We do know that strasberg has already been injured. I’d still pay 50 mil for him out of college.

    As for a harsh word, Darvish is going through a public divorce with an idol. I’m sure people have said nasty things to him. Idolfans are way crazier than sportsfans.

  147. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    I can’t ignore the posting fee. Because money is money, and because it is a sealed bid, if you really, really want this guy, the tendency will be to overpay on that end of it.

    And if you really, really want the guy, the contract can’t really be stingy just because the posting fee was high, or he won’t sign and the entire thing was an exercise in futility.

    I just don’t like the whole process.

  148. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    “Can you imagine what will be going thru Yu’s head when he hears 50,000 people cascading boos upon him”

    That will never happen because Yu owns

    Nick I am going to punch you in the face man.. by the way how much money did you make on your baseball bets this past season? I haven’t been following the blog all that much over the last several months.

  149. Phranchise December 8th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    That’s it. The posting fee is the big kicker. But if they generate some income, endorsements, advertising whatever the intangibles are that offsets a portion. Then you are left with a 25 year old playing in a pro environment with his stuff and how many years are you signing him for during a pitchers prime years. I say it’s ridiculous not to make an aggressive attempt. Not saying go crazy, but Danks or Garcia are going to want at least what Wilson got and they will be older than Darvish is. And I like Danks, especially being a lefty, but he wasn’t stellar last year. And Garza is a bit of a hot head. So not like these guys are given. Plus the prospects you need to give up for them and not for Darvish

  150. MTU December 8th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    I don’t see how you can “ignore” the posting fee unless it’s paid with Monopoly money.

    Assuming it is paid in real dollars it has to be figured into the average yearly cost for the Player.

  151. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    I don’t see how you can “ignore” the posting fee unless it’s paid with Monopoly money.

    Assuming it is paid in real dollars it has to be figured into the average yearly cost for the Player.

    —-

    Doesn’t count towards payroll though. And the Yankees basically crap money so it’s not like they can’t afford it. Did you see Boston’s payroll reduce drastically after they spent all that dough on Matsuzaka?

  152. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    blake -

    Right – it’s however many millions of dollars you then cannot spend elsewhere (or not spend at all).

  153. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Nothing strawman about it. all legitimate reasons, especially mound height and size of the baseball with lower seams. Certainly as legitimate as the posting fee doesn’t count. $50-$60 mil is real money, not your McDonald’s 40 % off coupons.

    There’s a lot going against it, beyond the fact that the Yanks have a huge amount of outstanding young pitching coming fast. They need help in other spots, such as outfield because there are very few hitting the FA market any time soon.

    Japanese pitching has never been as good as a few of the hitters have that have come across. Nomo for much of his career and about a year and a half of Matsuzaka with his 9 pitches and the magical Gyro ball.. He’s hardly been worth the cost. Matsui was worth his contract, but, there was also no posting fee.

    Suzuki was a bargin, but, even he wasn’t what I’d want to see. He has turned out to be more selfish than ine would expect. They need a big hit to the outfield and he bunts for hits. Reminds me of Boggs. Both could sacrifice some average for a little more run production. Runs are what wins games.

  154. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    I don’t see how you can “ignore” the posting fee unless it’s paid with Monopoly money.

    Assuming it is paid in real dollars it has to be figured into the average yearly cost for the Player.

    It doesnt count towards the CBA and luxury tax thus it actually presents a savings as an equivalent AAV player adds like +50% of the contract to the cost due to lost revenue sharing and luxury penalty. There is now a softcap in baseball.

  155. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    It counts against the bottom line in the ledgers, though. Again, it’s money you cannot spend elsewhere.

  156. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Nothing strawman about it

    You didn’t understand which of your posts was a strawman, its your usual lohud fallacy stuff.

  157. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Ichiro is a hall of famer in Japan and America. Yeah that dude is disappointing for sure.

    And there are always free agent outfielders to fill spots. Josh Hamilton for one is going to be a FA after this year..

  158. DONNYBROOK December 8th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    All the scouting reports I’ve seen have Darvish pegged as a Top of the rotation Chucker. Not one single scout has down played this guys artillery of pitches. NOT ONE. Cashman does rely heavily on his scouting dept making me believe he is gonna go after Darvish big time. The rhetoric that Cashman is currently spewing is being done to hide his in-the-weeds presence. Above all else, the Yanks MUST get Darvish if only to prevent the AL Champion Rangers from grabbing him. Cashman cannot allow Texas to recover from the loss of CJ Wilson.

  159. blake December 8th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Villa,

    I think the Yanks could spend 50 million upfront and it not affect then at all if they wanted to……because their self imposed salary cap is well short of what they coukd operate at if they wanted……..but Hal is the one that has to be willing to do it and he’s not George….Im not sure he’d let 50 million bucks go out of the pot and just carry on as usual ….

  160. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Everyone who says the posting fee is real money and you can’t ignore it is right, but you also understand how it’s not the same as spending the same dollars on a CJ Wilson or future-free-agent Strasburg, etc. and how the specs of the posting process are what makes Darvish more tempting for the Yanks, right?

  161. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    lmao at not wanting Ichiro on your team. Especially at the price the Mariners paid.

  162. CB December 8th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    In general, I think people are significantly underweighting how onerous that posting fee will be.

    The same thing happened with Dice-K.

    In general, businesses hate to front cash. They will jump through hoops not to do it up front. Anyway you can delay paying out is an opportunity to make more money by investing it.

    To spend out around 1/8 of a year’s revenues in one shot is a big deal for any organization.

    Even with the revenue tax benefits down the line, it’s not something that’s easy to do.

    And with this fee – it’s basically Hal spending money out of his own pocket.

    Now the same principle holds for every team – and it impacts the Yankees much less than any other.

    But that fee is still a major financial issue. From a cash flow standpoint it’s much worse than just signing him to a 7 year 100M deal. Better for revenue tax reasons – but those are all financial gains that 1) will take the lifetime of the contract to fully realize (so you should put a discount rate on those dollars); 2) only has real value if he pitches to near his potential.

  163. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Why would you put a guy that needs a 24 hour baby sitter in NY? he couldn’t even stay clean in Texas with his little side trip to Arizona one winter?

  164. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    lmao at not wanting Ichiro on your team. Especially at the price the Mariners paid.

    He selfishly gets base hits, what a selfish player

  165. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Why would you put a guy that needs a 24 hour baby sitter in NY? he couldn’t even stay clean in Texas with his little side trip to Arizona one winter?

    I don’t want Josh Hamilton but you just said there are no free agent outfielders which is just not true. And why do the Yankees need an outfielder anyways? Gardner Granderson Swisher is pretty good.

  166. blake December 8th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Everyone who says the posting fee is real money and you can’t ignore it is right, but you also understand how it’s not the same as spending the same dollars on a CJ Wilson or future-free-agent Strasburg, etc. and how the specs of the posting process are what makes Darvish more tempting for the Yanks, right?”

    Yes…..but I don’t think the Yanks will view the total investment as being contract only either…….

  167. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    blake -

    I guess they could. But 50 million up front dollars and no guarantee what you’re going to get back on it? I guess it’s a good thing I’m not in charge of a baseball team. LOL I’ve no stomach for expensive risk.

    But really, my main thing is, the darn sealed bid, so you could be totally foolish and not even know it. I mean 10 teams could submit bids at around $20 million, and you want the guy so bad and are afraid there will be that one crazy team, so you bid $60 million. That’s $39+ million you didn’t have to spend.

  168. MTU December 8th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    The way I figure it if Darvish costs roughly 100 million (including the posting fee) to sign for 5 years he cost the Yankees 20 mil a year.

    I am not going to use any kind of tortured logic to justify it.

    I really don’t care what the Yankees do.

    If they think Darvish is worth that kind of coin I’m fine with it.

    if they don’t I’ll understand that too.

    I’m just glad it isn’t my money or my a*s on the line.

    ;)

  169. 108 stitches December 8th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Cashman was given more authority in 2006 and with the help of Damon Oppenheimer, Mark Newman and others, has seen steady progress with the farm system.
    What message does it send to the likes of developed hopefuls such as Noesi, Warren, Phelps, and Mitchell if an unproven pitcher with no more experience than they have bursts on the scene with supposed potential from a Japanese league ? At least some of them stand a chance of being dealt to a major league team unlike Kei Igawa who not a team in MLB would take for 4 years.

  170. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    CB -

    I agree with your 5:57 post.

  171. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    In general, businesses hate to front cash. They will jump through hoops not to do it up front. Anyway you can delay paying out is an opportunity to make more money by investing it.

    This is true, but with the new CBA fronting cash now can save you headaches down the road. Whats most important is getting talented players onto the roster at a price which won’t push the bottom line into the red area for the CBA. If the Yankees think Darvish has the ability to be better than Hughes,Nova, et al, then they should bid aggressively, because having his ACTUAL contract worth half of what he could perform as saves them revenue sharing money and luxury tax money.

    Looking ahead to Cole Hamels is nice, but if you pay Cole Hamels 20-25 million a year it turns into 35-40 million a year due to the revenue and tax hit.

  172. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    For what team(s) does it make any/more sense to bid high on Darvish?

  173. jacksquat December 8th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Yu is a superstar in Japan and judging what I can of his personality and actions like posing nude for a magazine, I don’t think he is a delicate flower type. I don’t think anything environmental will be a problem.

  174. Pat M. December 8th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    blake….That’s a big check check Hal will have to sign, and I still say it’ll be more than what Boston wrote for Dice K…..That’s not hanging out in the petty cash draw…..He does have stuff though…

  175. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    I am not expecting the Yankees to win the bid; and frankly, I’m wondering if they will bid at all.

  176. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Yes…..but I don’t think the Yanks will view the total investment as being contract only either…….

    If the Yankees get under the luxury cap then they begin to gain back their revenue sharing money. Suddenly investing the 50 million (which is like charity, helping the NPB :) ) and you start seeing that extra 10-20 mil a year down the line.

  177. blake December 8th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Villa,

    My point is that Hal is really the only one who can say how it would affect everything else because he’s the one paying it…..

  178. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    And with the draft changes the Yankees will have less luck pulling High Schoolers away from college or for high end talent to fall in the draft. They need big talent, spend the money now.

  179. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    jacksquat -

    If Darvish did do that, I’d expect the Yankees wouldn’t want him, wouldn’t want to deal with those kinds of personality issues. I think they got more than they bargained for with some of ARod’s foibles (and I like ARod), and have been particularly meticulous when scouting players with regard to “character” however they define it.

    ***

    Nick, I don’t think it necessarily makes any sense for any team to go through this process to sign Darvish. But I’d say a team that wants to make a name for itself? Or who has money to burn and wants to make a splash, show they have “arrived?”

    I don’t know who that might be though.

  180. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
    lmao at not wanting Ichiro on your team. Especially at the price the Mariners paid.

    He selfishly gets base hits, what a selfish player

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    suzuki, like Boggs could have hit .300+ every year and still hit 20 homers a year in the #3 hole. Produce runs…the things that wins games. They spent most of their careers in the leadoff spot because they didn’t want to hit 3rd. I’ll take the 90 RBI and 100 runs scored every year over a .300 batting average. Hell, Mattingly did it for years. Sorry, but if you have a runner on 2nd and 2 outs and need the run in and the guy bunts to leave it up to a lesser hitter, that’s selfish. They needed Suzuki to play center and after about a season, he refused to play there again.

  181. blake December 8th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    CB,

    Have the Angels passed the Rangers? I say…..not yet.

  182. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    If Darvish did do that, I’d expect the Yankees wouldn’t want him

    Really they wouldnt want a player that takes his clothes off?

    http://blog.timesunion.com/hom.....dition.jpg

  183. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 8th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Okay, pony up? Did anyone predict Pujols and the Angels?

    Wow.

    I’m not surprised that he left St. Louis only because I figured that he already got a few rings with them and maybe he’d want other challenge$. I mean it’s not like he plays for the Yankees!

    Good for the Angels. Now Pujols can languish with the rest of that team.

    :)

  184. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Jerkface -

    If Darvish was going to be starting out in AAA, then, fine. But he’s not. He’s expected to go from Japan where things are different and acclimate himself to the big leagues on the job.

    So part of this whole thing is whether any team, but specifically the Yankees, thinks he can do that.

    When you draft guys here or internationally, they at least get their feet wet in the minor leagues.

  185. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Ichiro hit .366 .496 .428 .924 with a man on 2nd. Yea I’m sure all of those were bunts.

  186. CB December 8th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    “This is true, but with the new CBA fronting cash now can save you headaches down the road. Whats most important is getting talented players onto the roster at a price which won’t push the bottom line into the red area for the CBA. ”

    This is true as well. The key phrase there is down the road… that’s also where the uncertainty plays in.

    But this is also why I’ve been saying the money is secondary. What’s really the hard part – and the critical part of all of this – is talent evaluation.

    In a sense Darvish is an asset that is hard to price. In those situations you really need to make sure you’ve accurately gauged that asset’s value to you.

    They have to get the talent evaluation right. You can’t make a good deal – either buy or pass – if you’ve gotten that wrong.

    That’s true of any player – but there’s just more uncertainty and more risk involved with this situation due to the posting process and him playing in another country.

    If the yanks feel that he’s a front end guy and that they have enough information on him that they understand the potential variance in his performance around expectation – then they should go out and get him.

    But begging the variance around expectation is what’s the real hard part of this.

  187. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    When you draft guys here or internationally, they at least get their feet wet in the minor leagues.

    yea because none of them guys has back to back to back to back 200 ip seasons in a league that is stronger than AAAA with sub 2 ERAs.

  188. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 8th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Looks like I’m a few threads behind. I guess the Pujols information is old news!

    ‘Tis the season, y’all.

    :)

  189. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    All of Ichiro’s RISP stats are disgustingly good.

  190. CB December 8th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    “Have the Angels passed the Rangers? I say…..not yet.”

    I think it’s much too early to draw any conclusions there. It’s not even New Years yet.

    Also – I think people are underestimating how good Feliz could be in that rotation. I think he’s going to be dynamite there.

    Texas isn’t going to stand pat. Not sure what they’ll do – but they’ll get better.

  191. blake December 8th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 25m Now that Darvish has posted, teams have until 5 pm eastern dec.14 to make bids for right to negotiate with him.

  192. DONNYBROOK December 8th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    - CB -
    The Yanks have been paying a Huge $$$ penalty based on their team payroll for several years now, so obviously paying $$$ in a BANG\one-lump-sum doesn’t bother them in the least. Whatever the posting comes to $$$, the Yanks are Not gonna shy away because they are afraid of dropping some coin in one fell swoop.These are the New York Yankees, NOT Walmart, or Target, or some other penny-pinching, nickel and dime operation.

  193. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Yu is good for LoHud business. I bet they’d wish the posting period was twice as long.

  194. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Um, jerkface, shirtless is not nude.

  195. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Ichiro only has 122 bunts in his career, so the epidemic of him bunting with RISP must not occur as often as some people think.

  196. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    For those of you slobbering all over Darvish better hope you’re right, because if he bombs, that’s a ton of money and a lot of years shot to Hell. I don’t care whether they sign him or not, but, he’s more likely to be Matsuzaka than he is Strasburgh.

    If NY signs him and he does well, great…I’ll be happy…just like with Andruw Jones.

  197. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Um, jerkface, shirtless is not nude.

    Yu Darvish was naked, but not revealed in the pictures. And many athletes posed in similar nude poses in ESPN the Magazine. You will have to try harder to find a reason the Yankees won’t like Darvish.

  198. Giuseppe Franco December 8th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Off topic, but…..

    Charlie Weis to be named head football coach of the Kansas Jayhawks.

    My only question is…….do they not get NBC in Kansas?

  199. CB December 8th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Another thing on Darvish – the first time I ever saw him pitch was in the 2008 olympics.

    I was really looking forward to seeing him as so many good things were being said about him.

    I was unimpressed with how he threw the ball. Real disappointment. Didn’t think he threw the ball that well in the world baseball classic in 2009 either.

    That said – from what I could see – I thought he looked much better the past two seasons – especially this past season. Much more dynamic.

    Gaining weight really looked to have helped him gain some life on the ball.

  200. m December 8th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Olney backs up m! 4 business days.

  201. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Um, jerkface, shirtless is not nude.

    They are topless. t-o-p-l-e-s-s

  202. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Olney backs up m! 4 business days.

    What a travesty! I was hoping to get the results by the end of my long weekend :)

  203. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    jerkface -

    A couple of things – as has been pointed out, historically, pitchers from Japan don’t necessarily fare well in the states, and even Dice-K did not come as advertised and experienced problems because of the differences in training and workload. Those college/hs pitchers don’t have the price tag that you’re talking about here.

    I’m not saying Darvish isn’t good; I’m saying for the money, it’s such a big question mark. Since the Yankees have been scouting him for three years, and since they have the expereince with Igawa, and perhaps took the opportunity to learn from that, if they post on Darvish it will be because they think he can overcome some of the obstacles that will exist. It’s not an apples to apples comparison.

  204. DONNYBROOK December 8th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    As I understand the posting process, it’s 4 days for MLB owners to submit their bid, and then the Ham Owner has 4 days to consider whether to accept the offer.

  205. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    In 1660 plate appearances with RISP, Ichiro has 17 sacrafice hits.

  206. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    And this is why I generally don’t like to engage a particular person on this forum. Not interested in getting into nitpicking over topless vs. shirtless vs. nude and whether or not the Yankees might take that into consideration in this instance.

  207. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    GB7 just doesnt understand Ichiro. He lets his racist bias affect his thinking, and then spews that bile all over the blog. For Ichiro baseball perfection was a basehit to the outfield. With RISP, he wants the hit.

  208. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    ” For those of you slobbering all over Darvish better hope you’re right, because if he bombs, that’s a ton of money and a lot of years shot to Hell”

    You mean the Yankees had better hope they’re right if they decide to bid high, right?

    It won’t be Jerkface’s fault if Yu bombs, will it?

  209. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    You don’t like to engage him because you misquoted him? lol

  210. m December 8th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Why hasn’t someone stepped in and objected to the nudity talk? :sexism:

  211. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Not interested in getting into nitpicking over topless vs. shirtless vs. nude and whether or not the Yankees might take that into consideration in this instance.

    You’re the one who brought it up!

  212. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    And this is why I generally don’t like to engage a particular person on this forum. Not interested in getting into nitpicking over topless vs. shirtless vs. nude and whether or not the Yankees might take that into consideration in this instance.

    Dunno if you’re referring to me but I was joking.. listen to Howard Stern

  213. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Phil Hughes got naked on YES and the Yankees still keep him around.

  214. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Patrick: I did well with my baseball bets, AJ over 12the wins was my biggest heartbreak. But I will not use my winnings to expose my face to your punches.

  215. Patrick December 8th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    Patrick: I did well with my baseball bets, AJ over 12the wins was my biggest heartbreak. But I will not use my winnings to expose my face to your punches.

    Just joking around.. when do you usually place your season long bets? Sometime in spring training?

  216. Nick in SF December 8th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Yes, right before opening day. :arrow:

  217. Pat M. December 8th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    CB….His mechanics are very much American style….I see some Clenens, Seaver in him……I missed him in 09 in San Diego, but at that time it’s was all about Chapman…..I will always remember the zap that his fastball made when it hit the catchers mitt…..

  218. DONNYBROOK December 8th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    With The Pachinko Kid being both Japanese and Iranian, I would think the culture shock he experiences over here should be minimal. The guy’s also a matinee idol, meaning the media glare of NY outta be business as usual for him. Darvish has FAR more going for him than his stellar Japanese numbers, and all the outstanding scouting report. There is gonna be no learning curve with Yu. The guy is gonna hit the ground running whichever team wins the bidding.

  219. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Irrelevant Decor -

    The original post said Darvish posed nude.

    Jerkface questioned my reaction saying, so the Yankees wouldn’t want anyone to take their clothes off, and posted a link to a picture with several Yankees who were shirtless (topless).

    I responded by saying shirtless is not nude.

    I did not misquote him. If you looked at the picture he linked to you would know that.

    This is a ridiculous conversation.

  220. RadioKev December 8th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    I really can’t tell if these Cashman comments are a bidding smokescreen or true.

    Darvish should be better than AJ Burnett in the majors, shouldn’t he? If that’s his floor, isn’t he an improvement? I’d take the gamble because I think he’ll simply upgrade our fifth starter at worst, or be an ace at best.

    The Yankees cannot touch this type of talent without trading an arm and a leg for it. They have to become a really really bad team to be able to draft talent like this. The CBA is going to constrain their international prospects too. Great young players are being locked up with long term extensions. The market is becoming very efficient.

    This could be the last chance the Yankees get to sign young premium talent. Take it and run with it. We won’t be getting this chance again anytime soon.

  221. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    And jacksquat was the one who brought up the topic of Darvish posting nude/naked.

  222. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Villa – That picture he linked is not of Yu Darvish… you are right, ridiculous.

  223. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Patrick -

    I meant “any” particular poster not “a” particular poster. I try very hard to avoid controversy. Who would have thought this stupid topic would be controversial?

  224. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    And jacksquat was the one who brought up the topic of Darvish posting nude/naked.

    jacksquat brought it up as a positive (he is no wilting flower), you decided to spin it as the Yankees would never want a guy who posed nude. Thus I said, you brought it up!

  225. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    ID -

    Right. He linked Yankees to show that the Yankees wouldn’t care if Darvish was naked, but the Yankees weren’t naked.

    And now, I’m done with this. For real.

  226. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Darvish posing for stylish nude idol photos says something about Darvish, it says nothing about what the Yankees potentially think of Darvish. They were fine with Jeter taking his clothes off for sports magazines and with Damon’s antics, and A-rod’s photos (they re-signed him!). You were off base.

    http://losmaspapisdeasia.blogs.....azine.html

    Here are some of the photos. What a beast, get this guy on the team.

  227. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Oh, jerkface, I know how jacksquat meant it – to show he’s not some backwoods guy – he’s modern enough to pose naked. I pointed out that the Yankees these days seem to look at all aspects of a player and might not want to deal distractions of this nature. For crying out loud no one has a direct line to what the Yankees will or will not do.

    And again, the Yankees that you linked were not naked/nude/unclothed. They were shirtless/topless, which in this culture is perfectly acceptable.

  228. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    That we care if he’s nude or not only says something about American culture. The rest of the world doesn’t care.

  229. Villa Nova-Ya December 8th, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Jerkface -

    Whatever. You need to win? You win. Okay?

  230. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    I won! :twisted: :x :x :x

    No, Villa Nova-Ya, we all won. Darvish posed nude!

  231. CoreyMac December 8th, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    Stats At Age 24:

    Irabu: 8-7 3.10 ERA, 142.1 IP, 160K

    Igawa: 14-11, 3.73 ERA, 201 IP, 203K

    Dice-K: 14-13, 2.30 ERA, 215 IP, 226K

    Darvish: 17-6, 1.49 ERA, 208IP, 261K

    Make what you will of it…..this kid is NOT Kei Igawa.

  232. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    this kid is NOT Kei Igawa.

    I didnt need stats to tell me that, it took only 1 look at his nude form to see the difference!

  233. Ys Guy December 8th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    i couldn’t give a crap about darvish or anyone else posing nude or whatever, when the leave the stadium, i dont care what they are doing as long as its not illegal or compromises their ability to play. i don’t care who jeter is dating, i wouldn’t know minka kelley if she hitched a ride wearing a name badge and i couldn’t care if arod is dating a stripper while married or not.
    I dont think the yankees should go over what they paid for burnett to get darvish, posting fee and salary combined.

  234. Irreverent Discourse December 8th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    jerkface – How many times have you seen Igawa nude?

  235. Jerkface December 8th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

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