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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Garcia becomes official; Colin Curtis DFA

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 09, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees today officially announced their one-year deal with Freddy Garcia. To make room on the 40-man, the Yankees designated Colin Curtis for assignment. Curtis is the second outfielder in as many days to be removed from the Yankees roster. After missing all of last year with an injury, he could easily clear waivers and return to the Yankees system. As a left-handed outfield bat off the bench, he was below Chris Dickerson in the pecking order. Here’s the Yankees press release.

The New York Yankees today announced they have signed right-handed pitcher Freddy Garcia to a one-year contract.

Garcia, 35, went 12-8 with a 3.62 ERA (146.2IP, 59ER) in 26 appearances (25 starts) in his first season with the Yankees in 2011. In matching his win total from 2010 with the Chicago White Sox, he recorded his first back-to-back 12-win seasons since a six-season stretch from 2001-06 (18, 16, 12, 13, 14 and 17 wins, respectively). His 3.62 ERA was the second-lowest single-season mark of his career, trailing only his 3.05 ERA with Seattle in 2001.

Originally signed by Houston as a non-drafted free agent in 1993, Garcia owns a 145-95 career record with a 4.09 ERA (2,076.1IP, 944ER) in 329 games (327 starts) over parts of 13 seasons with Seattle (1999-2004), Chicago-AL (2004-06 and ’09-10), Philadelphia (2007), Detroit (2008) and the Yankees (2011).

The two-time American League All-Star (2001-02) has won at least 12 games in a season nine times (1999, 2001-06 and ’10-11), tying Derek Lowe and Roy Halladay for the fourth-most among active pitchers, trailing only teammate CC Sabathia, Mark Buehrle and Tim Hudson who each have 10 such seasons. Since 2001, he owns the third-most wins (118) in the American League among active right-handed pitchers, trailing Halladay (135) and John Lackey (128).

A native of Caracas, Venezuela, Garcia leads all Venezuelan-born pitchers in wins (145) and innings pitched (2,076.1) and ranks third in strikeouts (1,486). In 2006, he pitched for Venezuela in the inaugural World Baseball Classic, going 1-0 with a 1.23 ERA (7.1IP, 1ER) and 11 strikeouts in two starts.

In order to make room on the 40-man roster, the Yankees designated outfielder Colin Curtis for assignment.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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169 Responses to “Garcia becomes official; Colin Curtis DFA”

  1. Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Looks like we may need to look for Kelly Leak to be our forth OF or our AAA RF

  2. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    For an example of what the worst result could be with Kuroda you don’t have to look any further than what the Yankees went through with Javy Vazquez this last time around. He was useless but because of his salary the Yankees had to keep him around and find ways to work around him, they tried burying him in the pen, skipping starts, but it was at the detriment of the team in general.

    ——————–

    Ok. What are the chances of this happening with Kuroda?

  3. m December 9th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Welcome back, Freddie.

    May you be as good or better than you were last year. And, it pains me to say this, but let the wifey do the prep work.

  4. Erin December 9th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Freddy! :)

  5. jacksquat December 9th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Welcome back Forkball Freddie.

  6. jacksquat December 9th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Freddy*

  7. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:54 am
    For an example of what the worst result could be with Kuroda you don’t have to look any further than what the Yankees went through with Javy Vazquez this last time around. He was useless but because of his salary the Yankees had to keep him around and find ways to work around him, they tried burying him in the pen, skipping starts, but it was at the detriment of the team in general.

    ——————–

    Ok. What are the chances of this happening with Kuroda?
    ————-

    Based on the history of older NL pitchers coming to the AL – IMO – pretty good.

    Good enough that I wouldn’t want to entertain the idea unless I was sure I could get AJ Burnett off the roster first.

  8. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    It’s funny what a difference a year can make. This year I’m much more excited about this signing than I was last year. Welcome back, Freddy :)

  9. Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    I believe the contract is for 4M plus incentives, which is a bargain.

  10. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Putting The Geritol Twins, (Freddy And Kuroda) in the Yankee Rotation is a HUGE gamble. Add that Kuroda would be getting $12 Mill and it becomes a Hugely Expensive Gamble. NIX

  11. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Based on the history of older NL pitchers coming to the AL – IMO – pretty good.

    ———————-

    LOL. So it’s a pretty good chance Kuroda comes over as one of the better pitchers in the NL and instantly becomes one of the worst pitchers in baseball.

  12. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Oh snap the Lace and Stiletto lohud ads are back

  13. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Based on the history of older NL pitchers coming to the AL – IMO – pretty good.

    ———————-

    LOL. So it’s a pretty good chance Kuroda comes over as one of the better pitchers in the NL and instantly becomes one of the worst pitchers in baseball.
    ===========

    Oh yeah–what about Barry Zito.. Umm, no wait, bad example. :)

  14. RadioKev December 9th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    LGY,

    Didn’t Vazquez get Cy Young votes that off season we traded for him? That doesn’t make it likely that it will happen with Kuroda, but the comparison is apt.

  15. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    “From 2000 through 2005, 57 starting pitchers (those with at least 20 starts that season) switched leagues the next year — 29 to the N.L. from the A.L. and 28 in the other direction. Their statistics moved with them: Combined E.R.A.s for the new National Leaguers decreased to 3.94 from 4.79, or 0.85 of a run, while their counterparts’ increased to 4.64 from 3.94, a move of 0.70.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01.....score.html

    ——————-

    Those numbers are a bit out of date, but they sound about right to me….

  16. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
    Based on the history of older NL pitchers coming to the AL – IMO – pretty good.

    ———————-

    LOL. So it’s a pretty good chance Kuroda comes over as one of the better pitchers in the NL and instantly becomes one of the worst pitchers in baseball.

    ————–

    I believe Randy Johnson won the Cy Young the year before he was traded to the Yankees

    Javy Vazquez was a Cy Young runner up with the Braves before being traded to the Yankees and was a rising star with the Expos before coming to the Yankees

    Kevin Brown had a sub 3 ERA before coming to the Yankees

    Carl Pavano I’ll leave out – his issue was injury not poor performance

    Denny Neagle was pitching to a 3.5 ERA before being traded to the Yankees

    I realize it is only a few examples, but again, no one has been able to answer the question about how often an older NL pitcher has come to the AL and been good other than Schilling.

  17. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    You can’t make decisions based on the absolute worse case scenario which is what happened with Javy who just inexplicably lost his fastball over the winter.

    And for Javy we gave up prospects. Kuroda is some cash the Yankees don’t appear to be willing to spend on any other area of the team.

  18. kd December 9th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Mark (NJ)

    Is Mason Williams getting over hyped now? Been a lot of buzz about him and his prospect status lately.
    Klaw
    (12:00 PM)

    He’s pretty damn good.

  19. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    RadioKev December 9th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    LGY,

    Didn’t Vazquez get Cy Young votes that off season we traded for him? That doesn’t make it likely that it will happen with Kuroda, but the comparison is apt.
    ==================

    Perhaps. However, in the case of Vazquez, it was the Braves trying to trade him (trading with the Braves for pitchers is never a good idea). In this case, we are just talking about a one-year free agent signing.

  20. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
    “From 2000 through 2005, 57 starting pitchers (those with at least 20 starts that season) switched leagues the next year — 29 to the N.L. from the A.L. and 28 in the other direction. Their statistics moved with them: Combined E.R.A.s for the new National Leaguers decreased to 3.94 from 4.79, or 0.85 of a run, while their counterparts’ increased to 4.64 from 3.94, a move of 0.70.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01…..score.html

    ——————-

    Those numbers are a bit out of date, but they sound about right to me….

    ————-

    Of those though – how many went from the most pitcher friendly conditions (both in terms of ballparks and opposition) to arguably the most pitcher unfriendly conditions? That’s what you’re asking a 36-year old Kuroda to do.

  21. m December 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Rule of thumb I was once told is 3/4 of a run as an estimate. As we know, sometimes it can be much, much worse. :(

  22. J. Alfred Prufrock December 9th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:01 pm
    Putting The Geritol Twins, (Freddy And Kuroda) in the Yankee Rotation is a HUGE gamble. Add that Kuroda would be getting $12 Mill and it becomes a Hugely Expensive Gamble. NIX
    ///

    We’ve got 3 kids who can step in if need be. Besides, with short-term deals blue chip kids like Betances and Banuelos can put their work in in virtual peace.

    Phil Hughes is going to take off this season, any way :D .

  23. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
    You can’t make decisions based on the absolute worse case scenario which is what happened with Javy who just inexplicably lost his fastball over the winter.

    And for Javy we gave up prospects. Kuroda is some cash the Yankees don’t appear to be willing to spend on any other area of the team.

    ————-

    We’re allowed to disagree. Frankly, I hope the question of “how Kuroda would perform with the Yankees” goes unanswered.

  24. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Randy Johnson pitched 225 innings of 3.79 ERA baseball his first year with the Yankees.

  25. pat December 9th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    From ESPN.com

    The Tampa Bay Rays have reached agreement with rookie pitcher Matt Moore on a guaranteed five-year, $14 million contract, according to a baseball source.

    The deal includes multiple club options and could extend to eight years for a guaranteed $37.5 million and buy out two years of Moore’s free agency, the source said. It includes escalator clauses based on innings pitched and games started that could raise the overall value to $40 million.

  26. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    In 2010… Someone between Vazquez and Burnett needed to be pitching better, so they didn’t get pulled from the rotation. They were a virtual lock for the playoffs by August so why not let them figure it out? No reason to cut a player when you are coasting your way into the postseason.

    This is why you can’t just lump past events together, there is plenty of context around every players situation that makes it different.

    RJ had back problems before he ever came to NY
    Kevin Brown lost 2-3mph on his fastball/sinker the year he came to NY, and clearly couldnt handle the pressure because he punched a wall.
    Vazquez has failed on 2 separate stints in NY, but was fine in Chicago… so the NL to AL move has nothing to do with his problems.
    Chan Ho Park sucked.

    Kuroda is a different person, and a different pitcher and should be viewed as such.

  27. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Schill already had AL experience, so he doesn’t apply. There’s a SHOCK factor when a virgin NL Chucker gets lineups with a DH thrown at him. Most of them scream, “I’m melting………….”

  28. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
    “From 2000 through 2005, 57 starting pitchers (those with at least 20 starts that season) switched leagues the next year — 29 to the N.L. from the A.L. and 28 in the other direction. Their statistics moved with them: Combined E.R.A.s for the new National Leaguers decreased to 3.94 from 4.79, or 0.85 of a run, while their counterparts’ increased to 4.64 from 3.94, a move of 0.70.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01…..score.html

    ——————-

    Those numbers are a bit out of date, but they sound about right to me….

    ————-

    Of those though – how many went from the most pitcher friendly conditions (both in terms of ballparks and opposition) to arguably the most pitcher unfriendly conditions? That’s what you’re asking a 36-year old Kuroda to do.
    =========

    I thought that you said park splits were meaningless.

  29. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    The Rays are so brilliantly run, how the heck do they get guys like Moore and Longoria to sign such team friendly contracts? Amazing

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock December 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    We also have a secret weapon down the road apiece to unleash on the rotation: he’s a 26 year-old right-hander, has four pitches and can top out at 99. He’s also got some starter experience, including a stellar 2008….

    :D

  31. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    -LGY-
    And Johnson’s stats the previous season in the NL??????????

  32. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Of those though – how many went from the most pitcher friendly conditions (both in terms of ballparks and opposition) to arguably the most pitcher unfriendly conditions? That’s what you’re asking a 36-year old Kuroda to do.

    0.195 runs per game. That’s the difference in parks, it’s not important. For a pitcher that’s 3 runs in his home starts.

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock December 9th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Rays with Moore and Desmond Jennings for a full season….

  34. m December 9th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    If the NL pitcher will get a shock, what will happen to someone coming from Nippon?

  35. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Schill already had AL experience, so he doesn’t apply. There’s a SHOCK factor when a virgin NL Chucker gets lineups with a DH thrown at him. Most of them scream, “I’m melting………….”

    ——————–

    Darvish has never seen a lineup in Japan even resembling the worst of the NL.

  36. CompassRosy December 9th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    “I believe Randy Johnson won the Cy Young the year before he was traded to the Yankees”
    =======

    Actually, it was three years previous.
    But, his first one was won in the AL – you never forget your first ;-)

  37. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    -LGY-
    And Johnson’s stats the previous season in the NL??????????
    =============

    Nobody is disputing that a pitcher’s ERA inflates moving to the AL from the NL. However, Chip is grossly exaggerating. Kuroda is a 3.5 ERA pitcher in the NL; he would be a 4.1 ERA pitcher in the AL.

  38. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Darvish has never seen a lineup in Japan even resembling the worst of the NL.

    Pretty sure my highschool baseball team could out hit the 2011 Mariners

  39. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    You can laud the Rays all you want, but they did sign Manny after he had already failed a drug test and choked out a Traveling Secretary that was a Senior Citizen. THAT, is a Huge black eye for that organization.

  40. m December 9th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    It’s part of the Rays mentality to sign older, on the verge of retirement players. It’s the rest home of baseball. :P

  41. J. Alfred Prufrock December 9th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    What has that to do with the talent of the left-hander and the left-fielder?

  42. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    -GHOSTWRITER-
    To me, Better than half a run is Significant. Throw in the fact the guy is 36 and it gets even worse.

  43. Erin December 9th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal This explains it: #Angels’ new 20-year TV deal with Fox, per @BillShaikin, takes them from $50M per year to $150M. Different world. #MLB

  44. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    You can laud the Rays all you want, but they did sign Manny after he had already failed a drug test and choked out a Traveling Secretary that was a Senior Citizen. THAT, is a Huge black eye for that organization.

    Oh please, who cares? They still made the playoffs.

  45. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Someone should check Matt Moore for rufilin.

  46. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    -GHOSTWRITER-
    To me, Better than half a run is Significant. Throw in the fact the guy is 36 and it gets even worse.
    ==================

    A half-run is only significant if Kuroda is the only one that gets his ERA increased 0.5 runs. In the AL everybody’s ERA is elevated by half a run–that’s the point.

  47. Erin December 9th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    BryanHoch #Yankees Freddy Garcia will earn 2012 base salary of $4M. Can make additional $1.575 million in incentives based on number of starts.

  48. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    BTW, the league-average ERA in the AL in 2011 was 4.08.

  49. Gary December 9th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Winter Meeting Losers

    New York Mets and Yankees: The Mets weren’t expected to be active and were; the Yankees are always active and weren’t. Suddenly money is a problem with two teams used to spending whatever it takes.

    The Mets did shore up their bullpen by signing free agents Frank Francisco and Jon Rauch, and trading for Ramon Ramirez. But they overspent for Francisco (two years, $12 million), and dealt solid outfielder Angel Pagan to the Giants for Ramirez and middling outfielder Andres Torres, both of whom are arbitration eligible and won’t be cheap.

    The Yankees stood pat. Maybe they are saving up to go hard for Japanese import Yu Darvish. Maybe they’ll trade a pitching and/or catching prospect for a proven starter. More likely they will make only minor moves because they already have $172 million going to 11 players and must pay arbitration raises to six more. A payroll of $200 million with holes in the starting rotation seems likely for the second year in a row.

  50. Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    last season. Kuroda away ERA 2.85. Home 3.27

    If interested in what he throws, velocity and more, read this:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....ki-kuroda/

  51. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Gary December 9th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Winter Meeting Losers

    New York Mets and Yankees: The Mets weren’t expected to be active and were; the Yankees are always active and weren’t. Suddenly money is a problem with two teams used to spending whatever it takes.

    =================

    LOL!

  52. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Haha yes the Yankees are losers. They have the best team in the AL, what losers!

  53. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    -GHOSTWRITER-
    I assume you mean Every NL Chucker that comes over to the AL. Therefore, a team is automatically a half-run better if it has NO NL Chuckers added to it’s staff vs a team adding an NL Chucker. All the more reason to pass on Kuroda and hope a AL team grabs him.

  54. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    That’s quoted from an article by a “yahoo Senior sports writer” – i.E. No one of importance.

  55. Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Erin-

    Keep Freddy out of the kitchen and maybe he’ll get those 30 starts. :)

  56. Gary December 9th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    From Mlb Rumors latest on Cain

    •Cain’s representatives spoke with Giants VP Bobby Evans during the Winter Meetings. Baggarly says “all indications are that the Giants plan to be aggressive in locking up Cain before he reports to spring training.”
    •The “benchmark” for a Cain extension seems to be the six-year, $99MM offer from the Marlins that C.J. Wilson reportedly turned down before signing with the Angels. “Cain is younger and better than Wilson,” an industry source tells Baggarly. “He’d get $150 million on the open market.”
    •When Cain signed his three-year, $27.25MM extension in March 2010, a fourth year (worth $16MM) was originally part of the contract but the Giants removed it from the deal due to worries about loose bodies found in a scan of Cain’s throwing elbow. Rick Landrum, one of Cain’s representatives, didn’t know why the Giants removed the fourth year since Cain’s medical information hadn’t changed, but said it wouldn’t affect the current talks with the club. For what it’s worth, Cain has thrown 445 innings over the last two seasons and appears as durable as ever.

  57. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    last season. Kuroda away ERA 2.85. Home 3.27

    If interested in what he throws, velocity and more, read this:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/m…..ki-kuroda/
    =======

    Nice post. I think that Kuroda will do fine NY. A lefthander with control in YS; I don’t see what the problem could be.

  58. hardwired7 December 9th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    This is good news for the Garcia-Nova bromance.

  59. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Kuroda has an odd split, he strikes out more righties than lefties, but they both bat under .250 against him.

  60. Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    I know you meant to say righthander[Kuroda]

  61. Erin December 9th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    eboland11 Re Yanks & Darvish: no dec has been made on bid but obv concern in org about committing upward of 100 mil 2 pitcher unproven at MLB level.

  62. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    What kind of Chucker is Darvish?

    Can we call him the Ham Chucker?

  63. Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Pick the 4-day period during which the Yanks extended CC.

    The rest of baseball stood pat! The Yanks totally won those 4 days!

  64. jacksquat December 9th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Pachinko Chucker?

  65. Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    From the Hardball times article I posted above:

    Kuroda’s best off-speed pitch is his splitter. It acts like a change-up, and Kuroda uses it more to left-handed batters, as you would expect. That said, the pitch mechanically works the opposite of a straight change-up. Generally, a straight change-up is thrown with the same spin as a fastball, but around 10 mph slower. The hitter is fooled because he sees the same spin, thinks fastball, and swings way too early for a ball thrown much more slowly. The “drop” you see from the straight change is produced by gravity, not the spin of the ball. Because the the ball is thrown more slowly, it is in the air long and gravity has more time to work its magic.

    Kuroda’s splitter produces the downward movement with spin and not gravity. Kuroda throws his splitter at about 88 mph, so it is in the air for a shorter time than an 83 mph change-up would be. The downward movement comes from the spin and you can see the difference in vertical movement compared to his fastball. For comparison look at Tom Glavine’s straight change. So here the batter sees a velocity that matches up with a fastball velocity but still swings over the pitch because of the lesser vertical movement.

  66. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    -GHOSTWRITER-
    I assume you mean Every NL Chucker that comes over to the AL. Therefore, a team is automatically a half-run better if it has NO NL Chuckers added to it’s staff vs a team adding an NL Chucker. All the more reason to pass on Kuroda and hope a AL team grabs him.
    ===============

    Are you kidding? Did you really mean to say this?

  67. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
    Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    last season. Kuroda away ERA 2.85. Home 3.27

    If interested in what he throws, velocity and more, read this:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/m…..ki-kuroda/
    =======

    Nice post. I think that Kuroda will do fine NY. A lefthander with control in YS; I don’t see what the problem could be.

    ——————

    I’m not asking for anyone to change their opinion – just voicing my own that I would take a pass on him.

  68. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    The Nets might get hit with a tampering charge. The next time you criticized Bud think about how much of a circus the NBA has become under Stern.

  69. Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    I didn’t realize “NL pitcher” was a genetic distinction. :roll:

  70. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
    “From 2000 through 2005, 57 starting pitchers (those with at least 20 starts that season) switched leagues the next year — 29 to the N.L. from the A.L. and 28 in the other direction. Their statistics moved with them: Combined E.R.A.s for the new National Leaguers decreased to 3.94 from 4.79, or 0.85 of a run, while their counterparts’ increased to 4.64 from 3.94, a move of 0.70.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01…..score.html

    ——————-

    Those numbers are a bit out of date, but they sound about right to me….

    ————-

    Of those though – how many went from the most pitcher friendly conditions (both in terms of ballparks and opposition) to arguably the most pitcher unfriendly conditions? That’s what you’re asking a 36-year old Kuroda to do.
    =========

    I thought that you said park splits were meaningless.

    ————–

    They are meaningless in trying to estimate what a player will do in an entirely different set of circumstances, not meaningless in looking back to see how other players who made that same transition did.

    Think of it like this – If I wanted to go from running sprints to running a marathon, how I did running sprints is meaningless…how other people my age, weight and ability did going from running sprints to marathons is a much better predictor of how I might be expected to do.

  71. dogface December 9th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Nice post. I think that Kuroda will do fine NY. A lefthander with control in YS; I don’t see what the problem could be

    ========================

    Isn’t Kuroda a lot more righthanded than he is lefthanded?

  72. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    The Nets might get hit with a tampering charge. The next time you criticized Bud think about how much of a circus the NBA has become under Stern.

    ———–

    Proko and Billy King met with Howard last night to talk to him about coming to the Nets – pretty cut and dry example of tampering.

    And Howard’s new agent is his father – that’s going to end poorly.

  73. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    dogface December 9th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Nice post. I think that Kuroda will do fine NY. A lefthander with control in YS; I don’t see what the problem could be

    ========================

    Isn’t Kuroda a lot more righthanded than he is lefthanded?
    ===========

    :oops: Brain fart on my part.

  74. Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Chip-

    Respect your opinion. Just stating some stats that might work in the Yankees favor if they really want a FA arm for a one year committment.

    If lefty Danks price would come down at an arb figure of around 8M he might be a good bet, but he has question marks also.

    What other FA pitchers are on the market that would be available for one year, maybe to enhance their value-Paul Maholm? Others.

    With Noesi throwing upwards of 98 with control and one or both of the Killer B’s maybe a year away, a one year rental might make sense.

  75. LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    What would AJ’s ERA be pitching in the NL West?

  76. Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    What would AJ’s ERA be if he went to the NL West and then came back to the AL? :shock:

  77. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
    Chip-

    Respect your opinion. Just stating some stats that might work in the Yankees favor if they really want a FA arm for a one year committment.

    If lefty Danks price would come down at an arb figure of around 8M he might be a good bet, but he has question marks also.

    What other FA pitchers are on the market that would be available for one year, maybe to enhance their value-Paul Maholm? Others.

    With Noesi throwing upwards of 98 with control and one or both of the Killer B’s maybe a year away, a one year rental might make sense.

    ———–

    It’s a fair stance – but it’s not just a matter of adding Kuroda, you still have to subtract someone from the rotation. Who?

  78. Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Now that we have the benefit of a decade of hidsight, who got the better of the Toronto-Yanks trade for Raul Mondesi?

  79. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
    “From 2000 through 2005, 57 starting pitchers (those with at least 20 starts that season) switched leagues the next year — 29 to the N.L. from the A.L. and 28 in the other direction. Their statistics moved with them: Combined E.R.A.s for the new National Leaguers decreased to 3.94 from 4.79, or 0.85 of a run, while their counterparts’ increased to 4.64 from 3.94, a move of 0.70.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01…..score.html

    ——————-

    Those numbers are a bit out of date, but they sound about right to me….

    ————-

    Of those though – how many went from the most pitcher friendly conditions (both in terms of ballparks and opposition) to arguably the most pitcher unfriendly conditions? That’s what you’re asking a 36-year old Kuroda to do.
    =========

    I thought that you said park splits were meaningless.

    ————–

    They are meaningless in trying to estimate what a player will do in an entirely different set of circumstances, not meaningless in looking back to see how other players who made that same transition did.

    Think of it like this – If I wanted to go from running sprints to running a marathon, how I did running sprints is meaningless…how other people my age, weight and ability did going from running sprints to marathons is a much better predictor of how I might be expected to do.
    ==============

    Going from the AL to the NL is not like going from running sprints to running marathons.

  80. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
    What would AJ’s ERA be pitching in the NL West?

    ————–

    I don’t know, but I would welcome the opportunity to ship him out there and find out :-)

    For what it’s worth – Jeff Weaver’s ERA dropped by 2 runs/game and his WHIP went from 1.6 to 1.3 going from the Yankees to the Dodgers.

  81. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    not meaningless in looking back to see how other players who made that same transition did.

    They are meaningless when you understand what the park factor numbers actually mean. The difference between LA and NY is 3 runs over 16 starts.

  82. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Now that we have the benefit of a decade of hidsight, who got the better of the Toronto-Yanks trade for Raul Mondesi?
    ======

    Your point being?

  83. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Going from the AL to the NL is not like going from running sprints to running marathons.
    ——————–

    No, but it is similar to going from arguably the best division for pitchers to arguably the best division for hitters.

  84. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Now that we have the benefit of a decade of hidsight, who got the better of the Toronto-Yanks trade for Raul Mondesi?

    ————

    As I’ve never heard of Scott Wiggins I’ll say the Yankees.

  85. Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Ghost – nothing in particular – just a nostalgic hit-and-run post

  86. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
    What would AJ’s ERA be pitching in the NL West?

    ————–

    I don’t know, but I would welcome the opportunity to ship him out there and find out :-)

    For what it’s worth – Jeff Weaver’s ERA dropped by 2 runs/game and his WHIP went from 1.6 to 1.3 going from the Yankees to the Dodgers.
    ===================

    This post is ingenuous: Your comparing apples and oranges. For record, Weaver had an ERA of 4.91 in the AL, and 4.33 in the NL.

  87. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
    What would AJ’s ERA be pitching in the NL West?

    ————–

    I don’t know, but I would welcome the opportunity to ship him out there and find out

    For what it’s worth – Jeff Weaver’s ERA dropped by 2 runs/game and his WHIP went from 1.6 to 1.3 going from the Yankees to the Dodgers.
    ===================

    This post is ingenuous: Your comparing apples and oranges. For record, Weaver had an ERA of 4.91 in the AL, and 4.33 in the NL.

    —————-

    I said I had no friggin idea what the answer to LGY’s question was – just threw out what another crappy pitcher did when he went from the AL East to the NL West

  88. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Hassye, I see. Then I guess that I would call it a draw, with the Yanks possibly doing a slight bit better.

  89. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Kuroda has a lower ERA, lower WHIP, and more K’s vs winning teams than losing teams… so he does not struggle vs better teams.

  90. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Kuroda is awesome and will be awesome on the Yankees. Conversation over

  91. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Ghostwriter -

    Lighten up. You’re part wigwam and part teepee – two tense.

  92. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    I said I had no friggin idea what the answer to LGY’s question was – just threw out what another crappy pitcher did when he went from the AL East to the NL West.

    ===============
    In one arbitrary year. You compared the distance between the peak and the valley to exaggerate your point.

    I’m done with this conversation. Have a nice afternoon.

  93. Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Have to go for now.

    Chip- The 5 starters will get settled before the start of the season.

    Have a great day.

  94. Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Ghostwriter -

    Lighten up. You’re part wigwam and part teepee – two tense.
    =========

    Perhaps. If you wouldn’t truck in half-truths to make your point, then this conversation wouldn’t have been so frustrating. Like I said, have a nice afternoon, no hard feelings on my end.

  95. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    Kuroda has a lower ERA, lower WHIP, and more K’s vs winning teams than losing teams… so he does not struggle vs better teams.

    ——————-

    Uh-huh – and that still doesn’t tell me anything. This isn’t about doing well against good teams. This is about performing against deeper lineups and smaller ballparks.

    How will he do against teams with better hitters and smaller parks than those he faces in the NL West?

    That has ZERO to do with the team’s record. The Orioles last year were awful, but they scored +700 runs, 60 fewer than the world champion Cardinals.

  96. Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Maybe the Angels will pass us by and maybe not – if they trade Morales for a stud middle infielder, they have a chance – but I love the fact that the Yankees are doing squat right now. I like the idea of Cash strutting around like Mick Jagger and Boss Hog. We got what everyone wants, they know it, Cash knows it and if we are able to find our next 3B and SS by 2014, the next dynasty will begin! This one will last a while

  97. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Ghostwriter -

    Lighten up. You’re part wigwam and part teepee – two tense.
    =========

    Perhaps. If you wouldn’t truck in half-truths to make your point, then this conversation wouldn’t have been so frustrating. Like I said, have a nice afternoon, no hard feelings on my end.
    ———-

    None from me either – as I said there is absolutely nothing written anywhere that says we all need to agree about everything.

    We can all agree on two things:

    1. We want the Yankees to do well (just have different ways of going about it)
    2. We’re comforted by the fact that no one on this board is actually the Yankees’ GM.

  98. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Kuroda owns thats all you need to know

  99. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Chip – When are you going to stop bringing up the ballparks? How many times do I have to tell you how the park factors work for it to get through to you?

    When you feel like being honest about this conversation let me know. Otherwise I’m just going to assume you hate Kuroda for some misinformed reasons that you are proud of.

  100. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
    Maybe the Angels will pass us by and maybe not – if they trade Morales for a stud middle infielder, they have a chance – but I love the fact that the Yankees are doing squat right now. I like the idea of Cash strutting around like Mick Jagger and Boss Hog. We got what everyone wants, they know it, Cash knows it and if we are able to find our next 3B and SS by 2014, the next dynasty will begin! This one will last a while

    ————-

    I think their MI is pretty good already with Kendrick and Aybar – now if they can get a 3b….

  101. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pm
    Chip – When are you going to stop bringing up the ballparks? How many times do I have to tell you how the park factors work for it to get through to you?

    When you feel like being honest about this conversation let me know. Otherwise I’m just going to assume you hate Kuroda for some misinformed reasons that you are proud of.

    ————

    I don’t hate Kuroda I just don’t see him as a clear upgrade to the rotation. And I certainly wouldn’t consign Hughes to a marginal relief role to open up a spot in the rotation for him.

  102. tomingeorgia December 9th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Chip’s obduracy against Kuroda has made me a fan of his, Kuroda, I mean. Sign him!

  103. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    tomingeorgia December 9th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    Chip’s obduracy against Kuroda has made me a fan of his, Kuroda, I mean. Sign him!

    ————

    Cold tom…very cold.

  104. Joe from Long Island December 9th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    wouldn’t be surprised if the angels start sniffing around david wright.

    lots of teams could use a good, solid 3b. add in the strong personal character, and he’s very desirable for a lot teams.

  105. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    There’s more to the Mondesi appraisal than mere numbers. Torre got Cashman to run that guy outta NY before he tore the Clubhouse Chemistry apart. Truly a cancer.

  106. tomingeorgia December 9th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Chip,
    No offense intended!

  107. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
    There’s more to the Mondesi appraisal than mere numbers. Torre got Cashman to run that guy outta NY before he tore the Clubhouse Chemistry apart. Truly a cancer.

    ———

    At the time though the Yankees were pretty desperate for a RF. Juan Rivera had broken his knee and they were running out Karim Garcia, Jon VanderWal and Enrique Wilson

  108. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    joe from LI – Wright earns $15mil in 2012, $16mil team option in 2013… if he is traded he can void the team option. I don’t know if I would expect the Angels to continue to increase that salary at this point. They need to move a bad piece first i think.

  109. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Lotta trumpets sounding in Anaheim, but give it a couple seasons and that team will bottom out. Texas has a sounder foundation than the Angels, and should they win the Darvish bidding, are once again the front runner in the AL.

  110. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Completely off-topic… if any of you are within earshot of Juan Rivera… make sure you scream “yankee reject” at him… he loves that. :)

  111. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    -CHIP-
    Desperate or not. The guy was run outta town.

  112. Joe from Long Island December 9th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    ID – Moreno seems intent on spending large sums of money. whether he continues to do that, or whether he moves a bad piece first as you suggest (find another sucker for Wells?) is up to him. but, I’d think Wright could help that team.

    it would be a good move for wright, to get off the mets, but his going to the angels would affect the yanks, so i’m hoping it doesn’t happen.

  113. Pat M. December 9th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    For all those who are ragging on Kuroda and haven’t seen him pitch, you’re in for a surprise…..The guy can pitch……..He’s the perfect fit for what Cashman has planned moving forward……

  114. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    For all those who are ragging on Kuroda and haven’t seen him pitch, you’re in for a surprise…..The guy can pitch……..He’s the perfect fit for what Cashman has planned moving forward……

    Listen to Pat M he knows what’s up.

    And listen to me, get Darvish too

  115. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    Again, Kuroda rejected the Yanks last July 31. NOW, it’s the Yanks turn. Next……………

  116. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
    joe from LI – Wright earns $15mil in 2012, $16mil team option in 2013… if he is traded he can void the team option. I don’t know if I would expect the Angels to continue to increase that salary at this point. They need to move a bad piece first i think.

    ————–

    Bobby Abreu has to go – with Morales at DH and Hunter in RF Abreu is a $9 mil pinch hitter.

  117. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
    For all those who are ragging on Kuroda and haven’t seen him pitch, you’re in for a surprise…..The guy can pitch……..He’s the perfect fit for what Cashman has planned moving forward……

    Listen to Pat M he knows what’s up.

    And listen to me, get Darvish too
    ————-

    7 man rotation?

  118. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    7 man rotation?

    As I keep repeating: trade Burnett, Hughes or Nova to the pen.

  119. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    One last thing on Kuroda (and Darvish) – unless you’re a believer in the Yankees finding a taker for AJ (and if you are please contact me so that I can sell you some swampland in Florida) then the question is this:

    Who would you rather have in the rotation:

    Hughes, Kuroda or Darvish

    Garcia at $5 mil is at least going to get a starting spot out of spring training
    Nova coming off his season last year is also assured a starting spot
    CC – no question
    Burnett’s contract means you can’t bury him in the pen or just release him

    So the only guy who can realistically be bounced is Hughes.

  120. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
    7 man rotation?

    As I keep repeating: trade Burnett, Hughes or Nova to the pen.

    ————-

    Ok, if you’re trading Burnett how much money are you taking back off his contract?

  121. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    That’s not really a fair question Chip, you have to ask this…

    What would you rather have in the rotation?
    Hughes furthering his development for $3mil
    Kuroda stopgapping the rotation until the 2013 FA class for $12mil
    Darvish locked in for 5ish years at over $100mil

    I don’t think having Kuroda or Darvish really excludes anyone from the rotation. Just look what happened last season. They left ST with 6 starters, moved one to the pen for safe-keeping. Within weeks that 6th starter was out of the bullpen and starting… by the time the playoffs came around they had 3.5 starters (CC, Nova, Garcia, Burnett when he showed up). Having 7 SP’s to start the year is a great plan IMO.

  122. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Ok, if you’re trading Burnett how much money are you taking back off his contract?

    Whatever it takes to get him off the team

  123. Your Worst Nightmare December 9th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Who would you rather have in the rotation:

    Hughes, Kuroda or Darvish

    ============

    Easy, payroll constraints going forward related to the luxury tax, Hughes wins by default.

  124. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Burnett’s contract means you can’t bury him in the pen or just release him

    I also don’t make this assumption…

    Burnett’s contract only means that he will pitch in pinstripes. Where and how (and how often) he pitches is a matter of preference for Girardi. They have swept larger contracts under the rug before.

  125. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    If the worst thing you are worried about is that the Yankees end up with 6 guys they can’t keep out of their rotation… isn’t that a wonderful problem to have? That leaves them more options at the trade deadline than this team has ever had.

  126. Pat M. December 9th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    I think too many have soured on Phil Hughes too soon…..I fully expect him to bounce back in 2012 and silence the 2nd guessers…..When healthy he can dominate & Cashman and The Yanks Front Office know this….However make no mistake this is the most important season for The Former Young Master Hughes if he wants to stay in Pinstripes…..It seems odd for us to be posting about Hughes without Betsy chiming in with her opinions…..Whatever happened to her ????

  127. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
    That’s not really a fair question Chip, you have to ask this…

    What would you rather have in the rotation?
    Hughes furthering his development for $3mil
    Kuroda stopgapping the rotation until the 2013 FA class for $12mil
    Darvish locked in for 5ish years at over $100mil

    I don’t think having Kuroda or Darvish really excludes anyone from the rotation. Just look what happened last season. They left ST with 6 starters, moved one to the pen for safe-keeping. Within weeks that 6th starter was out of the bullpen and starting… by the time the playoffs came around they had 3.5 starters (CC, Nova, Garcia, Burnett when he showed up). Having 7 SP’s to start the year is a great plan IMO.

    —————–

    And at one point last year you also had Girardi trying to juggle a 6 man rotation – you saw how awful that was – you really want to add another guy to the mix?

    I wouldn’t be opposed to Kuroda IF the Yankees either traded Burnett or hadn’t signed Freddy Garcia. Then there’s a natural opening for him. And I also wouldn’t mind shifting Hughes to the pen for Darvish – but shifting Hughes to the pen for Kuroda and then having to either forgo Darvish or push Nova to the pen or minors makes zero sense to me.

  128. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Also, if Hughes falls off the wagon at that Fat Farm, and reports to ST lookin’ like a beach ball again, you can NOT reward that lack of discipline with a rotation spot. Plenty of other scenarios\ rotation options than those stated above.

  129. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Pat m,

    Phil Hughes is one of my favorite players and I hope he does bounce back. I still am really optimistic that he can be a great pitcher. But at some point he has to step up and take it, the Yankees aren’t going to hand him a rotation spot forever. I think he will end up in the pen to start the year and he will have to prove that he’s better and deserves a spot in the rotation.

  130. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
    Burnett’s contract means you can’t bury him in the pen or just release him

    I also don’t make this assumption…

    Burnett’s contract only means that he will pitch in pinstripes. Where and how (and how often) he pitches is a matter of preference for Girardi. They have swept larger contracts under the rug before.

    ———-

    No, the actually haven’t. They’ve stuck guys on one year deals that didn’t work out in the pen (Javy Vazquez for example) but Burnett has two years and $33 million left on his deal – you can’t just bury that in the pen. Plus, I can’t even imagine what kind of headache Burnett would become at the notion of going from starter to 12th man on the pitching staff.

  131. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Chip -Nova is going to have a harder time repeating his performance from last year than any of these pitchers we are talking about. If he has to go to the minors it’s not exactly a tragedy.

    It’s about giving yourself options. If you roll into the season with 5 starters and one gets hurt, now you are looking at Noesi in the rotation, not “checking to see if he’s ready to be in it”. That’s a gap-fix, not a permanent solution. There’s no way Noesi could handle a full workload next year.

    Any team content with 5 starters out of ST is usually a team looking for a starter at the trade deadline. Last year they didn’t need to do that because they had that 6th guy ready to go… and we still have our prized prospects still in tow as a result.

  132. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    If the worst thing you are worried about is that the Yankees end up with 6 guys they can’t keep out of their rotation… isn’t that a wonderful problem to have? That leaves them more options at the trade deadline than this team has ever had.

    ———–

    That’s not the worst thing I’m worried about – that’s actually the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that you have two ineffective, old, expensive pitchers that you can’t move clogging up the back of your rotation and there wouldn’t be a darned thing Girardi could do to fix it.

  133. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Burnett has two years and $33 million left on his deal – you can’t just bury that in the pen.

    why not

  134. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
    Chip -Nova is going to have a harder time repeating his performance from last year than any of these pitchers we are talking about. If he has to go to the minors it’s not exactly a tragedy.

    It’s about giving yourself options. If you roll into the season with 5 starters and one gets hurt, now you are looking at Noesi in the rotation, not “checking to see if he’s ready to be in it”. That’s a gap-fix, not a permanent solution. There’s no way Noesi could handle a full workload next year.

    Any team content with 5 starters out of ST is usually a team looking for a starter at the trade deadline. Last year they didn’t need to do that because they had that 6th guy ready to go… and we still have our prized prospects still in tow as a result.

    —————-

    I have no problem with giving myself options – and I’m also not sold on Nova until he shows me he can do it again (Hughes); but I’m not going to premptively sign a 38 year old that I’m not sure is a clear upgrade to take the spot of a 25 or 23 year old. I would rather do what the Yankees did last year which is sign some guys who are low risk mid reward pitchers to low base or minor league contracts and rely on them and other minor leaguers to step in if needed.

  135. Hassey December 9th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Wow – monopoly money, and we’re all so desensitized to it.

    5-10 of us combined could live comfortably on $33 million for the rest of our lives and STILL leave some behind for our grandkids

  136. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
    Burnett has two years and $33 million left on his deal – you can’t just bury that in the pen.

    why not

    —————

    Correction – you can, but no team ever would.

    Paying AJ Burnett that much to be a long reliever is insane.

  137. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    But Kuroda is a clear upgrade.

    And you are right to question Nova’s 2011 performance, he was helped a lot by luck and a great offense.

    Sign Kuroda, Sign Darvish, win world series.

  138. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    They buried Igawa and his $40mil in the minors for 4 years without so much as looking at him in ’09 and ’10 when they really needed a starter… you think they would have second thoughts about putting their worst starter (regardless of who it is) in the bullpen?

    Chip – I think the biggest discrepancy here is you see a 1 year $12m contract as “expensive” and prohibitive… i see it as chump change for a guy that could seriously contribute to this team if he doesn’t completely bust. If he does he will not be left out to dry and the Yankees would never risk their playoff spot over $12m. If he had to be replaced he would be. He would have to be really, really, really bad for that to happen considering how they have handled Burnett.

  139. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    In my eyes it’s Kuroda or nothing. They aren’t going to win the bid on Darvish. They aren’t going to overpay for Danks or Gio.

  140. Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    ” Burnett has two years and $33 million left on his deal –you can’t just bury that in the pen.”

    They should try. It might be declared a Superfund site and then we can get relief from the Feds.

  141. Your Worst Nightmare December 9th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Chip December 9th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
    Burnett has two years and $33 million left on his deal – you can’t just bury that in the pen.

    why not

    —————

    Correction – you can, but no team ever would.

    Paying AJ Burnett that much to be a long reliever is insane.

    =================

    Why not?? They buried Igawa at AA & AAA for years.

  142. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    nick – Would trading AJ for Vernon Wells be considered a credit default swap?

  143. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
    But Kuroda is a clear upgrade.

    And you are right to question Nova’s 2011 performance, he was helped a lot by luck and a great offense.

    Sign Kuroda, Sign Darvish, win world series.

    ———-

    I’m sure the Red Sox felt the same way when they signed Crawford and traded for AGone…

  144. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    I’m sure those 2 players didn’t cost the RedSox a playoff berth either. Something about them only having 2 starters last year… :)

  145. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
    In my eyes it’s Kuroda or nothing. They aren’t going to win the bid on Darvish. They aren’t going to overpay for Danks or Gio.

    ———–

    Then I’m content with nothing.

    I don’t see essentially a Kuroda for Hughes swap as being good either in the short or long term for the team. If Hughes falters he can be replaced by any number of the “ml ready prospects” if Kuroda stinks you’re stuck with him.

  146. dogface December 9th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    In my eyes it’s Kuroda or nothing. They aren’t going to win the bid on Darvish. They aren’t going to overpay for Danks or Gio.

    ==============================

    Nothing would not be the end of the world. They can win with what they have and augment at the trade deadline as needed.

  147. Your Worst Nightmare December 9th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    ‘Sign Kuroda, Sign Darvish, win world series’.

    ==============

    Unfortunately Cashman and Co. say otherwise. Farm prospects and luxury tax constraints going forward??

  148. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    OK, Crawford probably could have won them more than one game if he wasn’t so bad… but it should never have come to that. They rolled into the season with a questionable rotation, and with no 6th man options. Wakefield? lol

  149. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    I’m sure the Red Sox felt the same way when they signed Crawford and traded for AGone…

    Well they are dumb and I am not

  150. Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Unfortunately Cashman and Co. say otherwise. Farm prospects and luxury tax constraints going forward??

    Give up no prospects, get Kuroda and Darvish. Luxury tax constraints? What? Darvish and Kuroda would be probably about 23-25 million in total payroll for 2012. That’s not that significant

  151. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    dogface – certainly, a point i constantly harp on… they can win with what they have, they simply didn’t. My concern is that they don’t have the backup plan that Colon/Garcia provided them last year. if Hughes shows up bust again, and Garcia shows up without his superman cape… they have 3 starters and a green as green can be rookie in Noesi. The B’s are not close to coming up and should not be thought of as a backup plan. They could be an all-star break plan but even that is too far away. They need to win 50ish games before then.

  152. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Darvish is not only gonna be a Stud SP, the guy is a matinee idol and will actually Generate $$$ into the Yankee coffers. His addition makes the Yankee team better on the field and on the Bottom Line. The Yankee hierarchy realize this, and are gonna go All-In with their bid.

  153. Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    ID: I think so, but that kind of trade would have to be approved by the SEC… or maybe Angela Merkel. :neutral:

  154. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    and you stand pat you can re-visit Danks in July when the price comes down.

  155. Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    How do we know Danks will be available/affordable? What if another team wants him too?

  156. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    donnybrook – I dont think anyone can deny that Darvish would have a place on the team and probably be successful to some degree. He would also bring in the Japanese advertising $ that they’ve lost since Matsui left…

    The problem is, just like the Dice-BB posting… they Yankees are going to make a fair bid, probably in the $30-$40m range… and that will not be enough to win the bid.

    The Rangers are a terribly dangerous team in this blind posting situation because Nolan Ryan is a hot-head and they just lost their Ace (read: did not spend $80m). They have tons of cash they were planning on having spent sitting around filling their pockets. They (or another team we have not considered) will make an outrageous bid… and we will be standing here going “OMG I can’t believe they paid that“…

  157. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    -ID-
    Add Loria to go along with Nollie. Either way, the Yanks will NOT lose this Bid.

  158. Your Worst Nightmare December 9th, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    I believe it will be important going forward to get under the luxury tax limit to stop lining other clubs pockets. Also do you think going forward they will re-sign Swisher in excess of $ 10.5 million after this year? I don’t for that same reasons.

  159. Chip December 9th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
    How do we know Danks will be available/affordable? What if another team wants him too?

    —————-

    Same way we “know” Kuroda will be good – we don’t.

    But given that we can’t see into the future we also don’t know that Hughes will stink either.

  160. Pat M. December 9th, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    I don’t think it’s likely that Hughes will report with a noodled arm from the work load from the season prior……If you thing’s are desperate now, go back and read this blog a year ago after Cliff Lee decided of The Phillies……And then after Cashman signed Garcia & Colon, there was an outrage and so many were calling for Cashman’s head and there were quite a few here who threw in their Yankee chips…….And the truth be told, both of the B’s are really at least two years away from being effective starters and more likely only one of them will be a rotation guy……That’s the reality of what’s happening , so you better on board with Hughes, Nova and if so Kuroda for this season and maybe beyond……..Garcia could be in the bullpen by June as I just don’t see him mirroring his way through another season…….

  161. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    donnybrook – Darvish has stated publicly that he will not sign if the posting fee is below Matsuzaka’s. Whether you believe it or not doesn’t matter, the GM’s of any team bidding on him have to take it into consideration.

    Your confidence is obvious, I just don’t see them posting the $50-$60m bid that will likely be necessary to win this.

  162. Nick in SF December 9th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    ” Same way we “know” Kuroda will be good – we don’t.”

    Dubious logic. They’ll go for Kuroda or not based on their own evaluations of him. They can’t control how he would actually perform as a Yankee, but they can decide what value they place on his potential as a Yankee and evaluate the likelihood that he’ll reach it.

    Kuroda talk could just be a smokescreen anyway…

  163. Pat M. December 9th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Nick in SF……Doing his best CB impression…….Quite good Nick

  164. DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Yankees will bid $61,000,028 and win. The Really tough part will be negotiating with Darvish over His contract. My guess is 5yrs\$55 Mill Backloaded. If Darvish is stubborn about the backloading, the Total value of the contract goes Down.

  165. disco stu December 9th, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    How about Tampa Bay … signing Matt Moore for 5 years at 14 million dollars?

    Amazing how they are able to continue keeping their star players under cost control.

    Maybe the Yankees should take a page from their book and lock up Montero, Banuelos, and Bettances since they clearly wont be dealing any of them unless a King Felix or Clayton Kershaw falls in their lap.

  166. pkyankfan69 December 9th, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    If the Yankees can get rid of AJ for a bag of balls and not have to pick up most of his contract I would try to sign both Kuroda and Darvish (assuming Yankees scouting likes what they see in Yu.) Kuroda wouldn’t be the flashiest FA signing but the guy can pitch. His #’s would obviously inflate pitching in the AL East but I still would see him as a solid #3 type pitcher.

    A rotation of: CC – Yu – Kuroda – Nova – Hughes.

    Freddy becomes the long man.

    Noesi in AAA. First in line to fill in for any starter who may go down.

    I hope Hughes really commits himself to conditioning this offseason. If he does expect a big season out of him. In this situation solid years out of Nova and Hughes (which you have to expect) give the Yanks quite the formidable rotation.

    I like Kuroda but if the Yankees see Darvish as the real deal I would prefer they make the commitment to really post high and get him if it’s one or the other. I would hate to miss out on Yu now and then have Hamels and Cain both sign extensions.

  167. 108 stitches December 9th, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    Kuroda bio …………..

    http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb......_id=493133

  168. Your Worst Nightmare December 9th, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Money is no object apparently to some, past, present and in the future.

  169. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    donnybrook – why would they backload the contract? i don’t think you’ll see any teams doing that anymore since the lux tax numbers are based on AAV now, not year to year.

    Worrying about the contract is worrying about the wrong half of the equation with Darvish. The contract will be the cheaper, easier part to figure out.


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