Moving forward after the Winter Meetings
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 09, 2011 
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I have to imagine the lobby of the Hilton Anatole is pretty boring this morning. No baseball executives randomly walking through. No reporters constantly checking their cell phones. No random guys stumbling into fountains.
The baseball world has separated again, with decision makers going their separate ways. Brian Cashman and Co. flew back to New York yesterday afternoon having done very little in Dallas. The Yankees won the right to negotiate with a Japanese shortstop, and the landed a pair of Rule 5 picks.
Otherwise, some of the game’s top free agents came of the market this week without the Yankees ever being seriously involved.
“You should do what you’re willing to do regardless of outside stimuli,” Cashman said. “Just because somebody else did something doesn’t all of sudden change your focus. We’ve worked hard. We’ve put a game plan out. We’ve had a lot of meetings. We’ve had a lot of discussions.
“… The road I wouldn’t say is hard – it’s not expected to be easy – but just because it’s what I expected it to be doesn’t mean we have to all of a sudden decide to throw more chips on the table. We’ll just wait, and we’ll be patient. We’ve got a lot of good stuff here, and we’ve got a good team. I want to make it better. It can get better. It could get better. It’s not like a basketball game where you’ve got a clock that’s going to go off and you have to do it in a 60-minute period, or whatever the timeframe is. I don’t have a buzzer going off just yet.”
Cashman was saying these things before he went to Dallas, and he was singing the same song on his way out.
Associated Press photo
No random guys stumbling into fountains.
************************
Unknown Reporter : Mr. Cashman Could you please describe your approach to making the Yankees better this OS ?
Cashman : Patience.
UR: Could you please elaborate for us ?
Cashman : OK. very patient.
UR: Could you give us a little more ?
Cashman : OK. Just for you. SUPER patient !!! Feel better now ? Get it !!!
it is a process
Reports out of Japan have the Yankees offering Kuroda a 1 yr/$12M deal.
MLBTR link on the Kuroda thing.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....um=twitter
Dogface-
Be patient.
They have wanted Kuroda for a while.
One year, allows the guys in the minors to grow, and i really don’t see us getting a back up Ace this year.
Hiroki Kuroda = Placeholder.
Forget Darvish ?
Not gonna get both, right ?
KURODA
JF is gonna pitch a fit if this true.
I do not know this guy well.
Is he worth 12 Mill ?
Yankees have offered Hiroki Kuroda a one-year contract worth approximately $12MM in U.S. dollars, reports Japanese news outlet Sponichi (passed on by Mike Axisa of River Ave Blues). The Yankees were one of several teams known to have an interest in Kuroda and as Axisa points out, the presence of Kuroda’s old battery-mate Russell Martin could be a factor that only the Yankees could offer the right-hander.
If signed, Kuroda would join a rotation that features C.C. Sabathia and four relative question marks in Phil Hughes, Ivan Nova, Freddy Garcia and A.J. Burnett. On paper, Kuroda would be the No. 2 starter, though it remains to be seen how the 36-year-old would fare pitching in the AL East as opposed to pitcher-friendly Dodger Stadium.
Talked about Kuroda late last night. His ERA away from Dodger Stadium was 2.85 compared to 3.27 at home.
Splits attached:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....oki-kuroda
MTU-
I’ve seen some video on Kuroda from this season. Fastball up to 94mph, good splitter
WOW, Kuroda might be joining the Yankees!! Another Freddy Garcia for $12 Million. The Yankees are gonna have a true #1 and five #4 type starters. 1st round exits in the playoffs are a greta thing apparently.
Looks like a 4 ERA or more in the AL to me ?
A depth move for 12 Mil ?
Seems a bit steep.
YT-
12 Mill for this guy ???
MTU December 9th, 2011 at 9:31 am
I do not know this guy well.
Is he worth 12 Mill ?
====================
Probably. He’ll be a solid number-3 guy for us. I would expect about a 4-ish ERA, 200 IP, with 12 to 16 wins for us.
below are the posts from Wednesday night about Burnett being traded … strange how nothing else has been mentioned since … I guess they were unfounded.
blake December 7th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
LostNYY Lost ..
@Jon_Heyman Burnett is gone. Might not be this week but he’s not coming back, that’s a fact.
1 minute ago
let’s see if it happens.
blake December 7th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
LostNYY Lost ..
#Yankees Talking Burnett trade with a California team ? For who might I ask?
34 seconds ago
2011
Matt Cain: 221 IP, 33 GS, 2.88 ERA, 123 ERA+, 2.84 SO/BB, average fastball velo 91 MPH
Hiroki Kuroda: 202 IP, 32 GS, 3.07 ERA, 121 ERA+, 3.29 SO/BB, average fastball velo 92 MPH
Both pitch in the NL West.
I do not know this guy well.
Is he worth 12 Mill ?
==================
No. If indeed the rumor is legit, I think the rationale would be that they don’t want to go more than year and thus will sweeten to pot to make a 1 year deal more appealing.
spida – By whatever stats you prefer, Kuroda is a good pitcher.
Ghost-
Thanks for the opinion. Seems a bit high for this type of guy but hey it’s not my money.
Wonder if this lends credence to AJ disappearing ?
I wonder what Colon is asking. I would bring him back for a year. I know that he faded down the stretch in 2011, butr he pitched a lot of innings (especially when you include winter ball). A nice extended rest in the offseason, and he should be ready to go in 2012.
Short video sample of Kuroda if you can get by the L’Oreal ad from mlb.com on Kuroda.
http://www.healthsuccessquest......uroda.html
Cashman needs voice lessons. He’s always singing the same tune.
Dog-
Thanks. It does seem a bit steep.
I’d rather rent Danks for a year than spend 12 mill on Kuroda.
Not the biggest Kuroda fan, especially at $ 12 M, but he’s better than AJ or Garcia.
If AJ talks are for real that would be interesting… is it a dump? Bad contract for bad contract?
Will AJ’s wife get six limo rides from Baltimore to the west Coast?
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 9:38 am
spida ? By whatever stats you prefer, Kuroda is a good pitcher.
——————————————————————————————-
Not a sexy move though. If the Yankees had a stud #2 such as Gio, I would be ok with the Kuroda signing.
CC = Lester
Kuroda < Beckett
CC = Weaver
Kuroda < Haren
CC = Price
Kuroda < Shields
So wait… did we sign Kuroda?
(and trade Gardner?)
Apparently Kevin Towers wants Kuroda. His initial asking price was 12M with a 2nd year player option. He’s better than Garcia from a velocity standpoint.
Player X:
14-9, 2.39 ERA, 211 IP, 1.13 WHIP, 185 K, 50 BB, 7.8 H/9IP
Hiroki Kuroda
13-16, 3.07 ERA, 202 IP, 1.21 WHIP, 161 K, 50 BB, 8.7 H/9IP
Anyone want to guess who Player X is?
spidanyc – Kuroda is better than Gio.
scuse me… GioVERRATED. Don’t want you to be confused as tyo who i’m talking about.
In what world do Lester and Price = CC?
YT-
No problem. We’ll give ‘em Kuroda for Upton straight up.
Danks would cost prospects. Kuroda won’t. I really don’t see the problem with what they’ve offered Kuroda. He’s pretty similar to Buerhle, who just signed a 4-year deal for about $14 million per year. Twelve million for one year for Kuroda seems reasonable to me. It might be a tad too high on a per-year basis, but it’s only for a year.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 9:48 am
spidanyc ? Kuroda is better than Gio.
——————————————————————————-
Kuroda is 36 and no better than a #3 starter in the AL
Gio is 25 and a lefty who is a solid #2 in the AL
IMO, no comparison
Kuroda made 12M this past season:
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los.....ki-kuroda/
Chip – I’m going with King choke… Javy Vazquez.
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 9:50 am
In what world do Lester and Price = CC?
———————————————————————-
If not equal, not much far off. Plus both Lester and Price are younger than Big Poppa
spidanyc – Just because you say those things doesn’t make them true. Gio should be no higher than anyone’s 3rd starter. Who cares if Kuroda is 36 you’re only signing him for one year.
One of these guys walks half of the batters the other does, care to take a guess who is who?
Kevin Brown was injury prone 2 of his 3 years before coming to the Yankees.
Gio’s numbers are way better at home.
I like him but 4 prospects?
One pitcher from the Dodgers flopped in NY so that must mean all future Dodger pitchers will!
BryanHochBryan Hoch
Yankees have not made an offer to Hiroki Kuroda
Actually Ghostwriter Garcia, this past season, from the right side mirrored Buehrle statistically except for the 200 innings. I don’t believe Buehrle cranks a fastball at 90 or above, while Kuroda hits 93-94.
now there is a report they did NOT make offer to Kuroda.
^ another great point. You can’t look at GioVERRATED’s 2 ERA becuase it’s BS. The Yankees won’t be paying him to pitch in Oakland. Everywhere else his ERA is over 4. He’s not a #2 unless your staff is terrible.
the report came from some japanese source “passed on by mike axisa”… Mike Axisa is not a credible source.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 9:52 am
Chip – I’m going with King choke… Javy Vazquez.
—————
Incorrect –
Kevin Brown.
That’s the stat line from his last year with the Dodgers before being traded to the Yankees. He was a year older than Kuroda at the time still throwing in the mid to upper 90s with a solid sinker.
His ERA the following year jumped to over 4 gave up more hits (up to 9/9 IP) and his K rate dropped by about 2/9 IP)
Hold your horses
BryanHoch Yankees have not made an offer to Hiroki Kuroda
Kevin Brown is also a sinker ball pitcher, which has very limited success.
ID-
That walk leader would be CJ Wilson, new Angel, who was surprised/hurt that the Yankees showed no love. #2 walks leader this past season-Gio Gonzalez who enjoyed a drubbing in YS, Fenway and the Rogers center this season.
Bryan Hoch
Yankees have not made an offer to Hiroki Kuroda
1 minute ago via TweetDeck
Good. I was thinking Kuroda was overpriced at 12 Mil.
Now we can just get Darvish so JF will be happy.
If the rumored offer is 12 million you guys do realize that the real contract will probably be 15 mil, right?
Not my money. Personally I’m ambivalent about the acquisition.
12/9/2011: Hideki Matsui, Hiroki Kuroda, Koji Uehara
by Gen on Dec.09, 2011 @ 11:21 am, under MLB
Nikkan Sports mentions that the Baltimore Orioles may be interested in Hideki Matsui.
===
Sponichi mentions that the New York Yankees offered Hiroki Kuroda an offer said to be worth around US$12M year.
I prefer Cashman’s original plan.
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 9:54 am
One pitcher from the Dodgers flopped in NY so that must mean all future Dodger pitchers will!
———–
Nope.
One 38 year old pitcher with comperable stuff from the Dodgers flopped and thus I am wary of repeating that mistake 8 years later.
Bryan Hoch
Yankees have not made an offer to Hiroki Kuroda
1 minute ago via TweetDeck
*******
Well, that takes care of that.
Of course Hoch’s tweet comes in when I’m typing
Next rumor please.
@YankeeSource
Sponichi also said Red Sox won bid on Nakajima. Usually highly unreliable. RT @Eric_J_S @mikeaxisa
9 hours ago via Twitter for iPhone
Might need to stop relying on Sponichi
Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Actually Ghostwriter Garcia, this past season, from the right side mirrored Buehrle statistically except for the 200 innings. I don’t believe Buehrle cranks a fastball at 90 or above, while Kuroda hits 93-94.
===================
Fair enough, but Kuroda’s numbers are quite similar to Buerhle’s:
IP ERA ERA+ WHIP
Buerhle 205.1 3.59 117 1.3
Kuroda 196 3.07 121 1.21
Facto in about a 10-percent increase in his ERA and WHIP, for Kuroda to adjust for moving to the AL from the NL, and they’re right there next to each other. They’re also fairly similar in terms of career averages, as well, although Buerhle is more of a horse.
Last off season the plan was Cliff Lee, Plan B and patience.
This year, the plan just skipped right past plan B and moved onto patience. Not even a tweak. Not even a tweak at this year’s trade deadline either.
I shoudl ahve said way more of a sinker ball pitcher, kuroda doesn’t seem to completely rely on the ground ball result.
Ghostwriter-
Thanks for the info.
Based on the new CBA agreement, it makes sense for the Yankees to get their payroll below 189M by the start of the 2014 season. Signing a player for 1-2 years must have played a part in the Yankees decision not to go after the big ticketed long contracts of Wilson and Buehrle.
Chip December 9th, 2011 at 10:01 am
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 9:54 am
One pitcher from the Dodgers flopped in NY so that must mean all future Dodger pitchers will!
———–
Nope.
One 38 year old pitcher with comperable stuff from the Dodgers flopped and thus I am wary of repeating that mistake 8 years later.
=================
He actually had a decent year with the Yanks in 2004 when he was healthy. The mistake with Brown was giving him the second year.
Bret – The team barely needed a tweak, all they needed to do was play better one day in October. it wasn’t a lack of personnel that sent the Yankees home this year.
Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2011 at 10:09 am
Last off season the plan was Cliff Lee, Plan B and patience.
This year, the plan just skipped right past plan B and moved onto patience. Not even a tweak. Not even a tweak at this year’s trade deadline either.
============================
Last year they won the AL East. And pitching was not where the Yanks were deficient in 2011. So, maybe Cashman knows what he doing.
I don’t have a problem with the patient approach.
We all know Cash has the money to spend (he still hasn’t spent the money he had to spend on Lee) but what’s been out there to justify spending it on?
Based on Cashman’s demanor, I would say he’s All-In on Darvish. Previously, Cashman did Not want Carl Crawford, but faked interest in order to drive up the OF’ers price\$$$. When Cashman wants a player, he does Not make it public knowledge. He goes the snake in the grass route. Cashman knows the Angels have moved closer to the Yanks competitively, and he will Not allow the AL Champ\Texas to acquire Darvish and regain their balance after Wilson’s bolting. With Cashman, his quiet Always fortells a storm.The wild card in the Darvish bidding will be Loria. After losing out on Wilson, he may jump in on Darvish. Florida, (or any NL team) getting Darvish would be OK with the Yanks, much like Philly getting Lee last offseason.
Ghostwriter December 9th, 2011 at 10:12 am
Chip December 9th, 2011 at 10:01 am
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 9:54 am
One pitcher from the Dodgers flopped in NY so that must mean all future Dodger pitchers will!
———–
Nope.
One 38 year old pitcher with comperable stuff from the Dodgers flopped and thus I am wary of repeating that mistake 8 years later.
=================
He actually had a decent year with the Yanks in 2004 when he was healthy. The mistake with Brown was giving him the second year.
————-
He pitched to a 4 ERA – which you’re right – is decent. But my question is this – if Kuroda has the same regression in performance as a result of the age and new league – then a) he’s not worth $12 mil, b) he’s not the top of the rotation guy the Yankees are looking for and c) at 38 he’s not a long term help to the club.
Now, if the Yankees clear a rotation spot for him by dealing AJ I’m ok with it.
In the end – Kuroda would be a placeholder until a better crop of FA pitchers is available in 2013, but if you’re expecting to get the Kuroda who showed up for the Dodgers last year – you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
Chip-
Lowering payroll? Good article that you probably read from Sherman in the NYPost 4 days ago.
For if they are at $189 million or less for the three seasons from 2014-16, they not only avoid paying one cent in luxury tax, which would rise to 50 percent for them as repeat offenders, but they also would get roughly $40 million in savings via the to-be-implemented market disqualification revenue sharing program. However, only teams under the luxury-tax threshold get reimbursed in this program, which is designed to prevent big markets such as Toronto and Washington from receiving revenue sharing dollars, which in turn will lower how much teams such as the Yanks pay (as long as they are under the threshold).
And even if they just went under $189 million for 2014 before going over again in 2015, the Yankees would receive serious benefits. They would get about $10 million in the revenue sharing disqualification program. Also, by simply going under the threshold once, the Yankees would go back to having a 17.5 percent tax rather than the 50 percent that begins in 2014 for them if they never go under. Keep in mind that since the luxury tax went to 40 percent for them in 2005, the Yankees have averaged paying $25.75 million in tax annually
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1g3EOw7Vu
$12 million for 1 year of Kuroda?
That fits for keeping the payroll down after this year, 1 and done.
Should also signal the end of the Darvish talk.
Won’t do both of them if Kuroda signs.
Me thinks Cash is serious about getting away from luxury tax payments once it hits 50%.
He goes the snake in the grass route.
=========================
Won’t work in the Darvish bidding. There is not one team who will enter that process believing that the Yankees won’t be significant bidders.
DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 10:18 am
Based on Cashman’s demanor, I would say he’s All-In on Darvish. Previously, Cashman did Not want Carl Crawford, but faked interest in order to drive up the OF’ers price\$$$. When Cashman wants a player, he does Not make it public knowledge. He goes the snake in the grass route. Cashman knows the Angels have moved closer to the Yanks competitively, and he will Not allow the AL Champ\Texas to acquire Darvish and regain their balance after Wilson’s bolting. With Cashman, his quiet Always fortells a storm.The wild card in the Darvish bidding will be Loria. After losing out on Wilson, he may jump in on Darvish. Florida, (or any NL team) getting Darvish would be OK with the Yanks, much like Philly getting Lee last offseason.
=============
Interesting argument. However, Cashman likes going for the unexpected move, trying to buy low to fill a need (Granderson, Swisher, etc.). Everybody is talking about Darvish, so I don’t see Cashman going all out to get what is essentially a prospect, especially when the Yanks are so deep in pitching prospects. Will he bid on Darvish’s posting? Yes. But I wouldn’t expect him to go much beyond what he bid for Matsuzaka–$30 to $35 million, or so.
Any guesses on what might be the winning bid annouced next Wednesday?
Will it top $51,111,111.11?
You don’t have to pitch particularly well to be worth $12mil…
190+ innings, 150+ k’s, under 4.5 ERA… that’s a $12mil pitcher.
Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Chip-
Lowering payroll? Good article that you probably read from Sherman in the NYPost 4 days ago.
For if they are at $189 million or less for the three seasons from 2014-16, they not only avoid paying one cent in luxury tax, which would rise to 50 percent for them as repeat offenders, but they also would get roughly $40 million in savings via the to-be-implemented market disqualification revenue sharing program. However, only teams under the luxury-tax threshold get reimbursed in this program, which is designed to prevent big markets such as Toronto and Washington from receiving revenue sharing dollars, which in turn will lower how much teams such as the Yanks pay (as long as they are under the threshold).
And even if they just went under $189 million for 2014 before going over again in 2015, the Yankees would receive serious benefits. They would get about $10 million in the revenue sharing disqualification program. Also, by simply going under the threshold once, the Yankees would go back to having a 17.5 percent tax rather than the 50 percent that begins in 2014 for them if they never go under. Keep in mind that since the luxury tax went to 40 percent for them in 2005, the Yankees have averaged paying $25.75 million in tax annually
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports…..z1g3EOw7Vu
———
I did hear Sherman talking about this on Yankee Daily the other night.
I think that’s absolutely part of it – but at the same time, other than Cliff Lee – what free agents have the Yankees not gotten that actually represented an upgrade to the Yankees.
And before someone says “Albert Pujols” please keep reality in mind that you do have very few players that can be moved out on this team.
We made the playoffs with our pitching the way it was last year.
They can theoretically wait until the trade deadline to pick up a #2 for a playoff run.
Chip – if you’re expecting to get the Kuroda who showed up for the Dodgers last year
Why wouldn’t you? His numbers have been very consistent over his 4 years, barring the one injury shortened season.
His LOB%’s are actually way below league average too, so he could be *better* than he has been.
with all this talk about pitching, the reason we didn’t beat the tigers is b/c cano + arod + tex came up empty…
Apologies if this has already been mentioned……..
Yankees 2012 home opener is Friday the 13th against the LA Pujols’.
djs – CC essentially losing 2 games is why they didn’t beat the tigers. Coming up short on offense was just bad timing.
This so-called luxury tax is just a BS way for the owners to collude against the players AND the Yankees. Repeat offender indeed… Why? Because the Yanks are willing to pay top dollar for top talent? What a load of rubbish.
At the very least, I hope that teams that accept luxury tax proceeds are required to plow back the entirety of the proceeds (plus at least ten percent of their income) back into player salaries. It’s ridiculous that the Yanks should have to subsidize teams with skinflint owners like the Pirates.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 10:27 am
You don’t have to pitch particularly well to be worth $12mil…
190+ innings, 150+ k’s, under 4.5 ERA… that’s a $12mil pitcher.
————
Yeah but if you’re paying for and expecting a 3 ERA pitcher and wind up with a 4.5/5 ERA pitcher – that’s not a particularly good end result.
This past season, who had more big name starting pitchers than the Phillies?
And, after Chris Carpenter, how many No. 1/ace/stud starting pitchers did the Cardinals have? In fact, I have a hard time remembering the names of any of the pitchers the Cardinals used. (Wasn’t there a Jaime somebody?)
Thinking that big names is essential to winning is a failed strategy.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 10:31 am
Chip – if you’re expecting to get the Kuroda who showed up for the Dodgers last year
Why wouldn’t you? His numbers have been very consistent over his 4 years, barring the one injury shortened season.
His LOB%’s are actually way below league average too, so he could be *better* than he has been.
—————-
His numbers have been very consistent in the same environment – the NL West has weaker hitters and larger ballparks than he’ll find in the AL East.
The encouraging thing about the Yanks interest in Kuroda- whom they’ve liked for a while now- is that it means they are loathe to trade the top tier prospects who are @ the major league door just for 1 yr filler/slight upgrade stuff.
The smarter route is to just buy that and hold your chips til later.
maybe King Felix is more available come July or next offseason and another batch of our kids are n=hot hot commodities off big years.
“Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe reports that the Red Sox seem “lukewarm” to the idea of making a bid on Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish.
“I’m not sure the timing this offseason puts us in a position to be the most aggressive team,’’ said GM Ben Cherington. “But he’s a good pitcher and we have a lot of respect for him. We’ll certainly discuss it and figure out if a [bid] makes sense. But we’ve got a lot of [financial] commitment to the starting rotation and feel pretty good about the front end of our rotation.’’ We can never rule the Red Sox out, but it doesn’t sound like they’ll be in contention for the Japanese sensation.”
Translation…Been there, done that…
Cashman Must bid aggressively due to Texas having a ton of $$$. NO WAY Cashman can allow Texas to pocket Darvish, and have him haunt the Yanks for 5 or 6 yrs straight. With $$$ being the Only Yankee asset involved, there is just no way Cashman can go the half-ass route regarding Darvish. The Immediate stakes are Far too high, as well as the Long-Term ramifications.
Kuroda would be a great pickup for the Yanks. He would instantly become the second best pitcher on the team. Add Kuroda, go get Darvish and the rotation is all at once really good. Sabathia, Darvish, Kuroda, Nova or Hughes, Garcia. Trade Burnett, put Nova or Hughes in the pen. With the Yankee offense I could see that pitching staff leading to 100+ wins
champ809 December 9th, 2011 at 10:38 am
The encouraging thing about the Yanks interest in Kuroda- whom they’ve liked for a while now- is that it means they are loathe to trade the top tier prospects who are @ the major league door just for 1 yr filler/slight upgrade stuff.
========
I think that this is spot on, assuming that there is any truth to the Kuroda rumor. Signing Kuroda wouldn’t be a sexy move, but it would be a solid one. If I was Cashman, I would be most concerned about replacing Colon’s innings. I think that Kuroda would fill that objective quite nicely.
NIX on adding NL Chuckers to the Yankee Starting Staff, and Double Nix on adding any NL Chucker that is over 35 yrs old for Any length of contract. Your playing with fire Scarecrow.
Chip – Have you actually looked at his splits? He doesn’t pitch any worse on the road, and actually has better numbers against teams over .500…
Chip – If you are paying $12mil and expecting a 3ERA pitcher, you are doing it wrong. If you “end up with” a 4-4.5 ERA pitcher… you got exactly what you paid for.
haunt the yankees?
the way Dice-BB did?
“The Mets finished second with a bid between $39 million and $40 million, according to a baseball official who spoke on condition of anonymity because none of the losing bids were revealed. The Yankees bid between $32 million and $33 million, another baseball official said.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2662193
=============
Obviously, times have changed since the old man died. However, the history is informative. I wonder what the Yanks would have done if they had a second bid: Would they have topped the Sox’s bid?
If your lookin’ to replace Colon’s innings, sign Colon. He can be a Long-Man if need be. When asked about joining the Yanks, Kuroda could only squeek out a faint, “Oil me”.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Chip – If you are paying $12mil and expecting a 3ERA pitcher, you are doing it wrong. If you “end up with” a 4-4.5 ERA pitcher… you got exactly what you paid for.
==============
Twelve million for Kuroda is well within what the going rate for these kinds of things. Frankly, I wonder if it would be enough. I could easily see him going for $14 million for one season, and the discount price would be $22 to $24 million for 2 years
This so-called luxury tax is just a BS way for the owners to collude against the players AND the Yankees.
=======================
Which is why it is so surprising that the MLBPA gave into this one so easily. It’s much worse than the prior deal because this time they gave it some teeth and tied revenue sharing to it.
DONNYBROOK December 9th, 2011 at 10:48 am
If your lookin’ to replace Colon’s innings, sign Colon. He can be a Long-Man if need be. When asked about joining the Yanks, Kuroda could only squeek out a faint, “Oil me”.
==========
I definitely would bring back Colon. However, I wonder if he could match last year’s performance.
The Marlins said they wanted Pujols (and not Fielder) because Pujols would be a latin attraction. Well, if they can afford Pujols, they can certainly afford the last 6 years of A-Rod’s contract. He’s latin, *and* has Miami ties.
A-Rod for Hanley straight up?
half joking…
It was pretty obvious that Colon was done after half the year, I don’t think he can regain that first half form he showed last year.
A-Rod for Hanley straight up?
half joking…
–
If I’m the Yankees, HELL YES
jacksquat – Was Hanley only half joking about not wanting to change positions?
dogface December 9th, 2011 at 10:53 am
This so-called luxury tax is just a BS way for the owners to collude against the players AND the Yankees.
=======================
Which is why it is so surprising that the MLBPA gave into this one so easily. It’s much worse than the prior deal because this time they gave it some teeth and tied revenue sharing to it.
=========
I really don’t get it either, absent some requirement that MLB teams accepting the luxury tax proceeds put a specified amount of annual revenues into player salaries. I’m not conversant enough in the CBA to know whether or not the CBA contains such a requirement.
Blake must have had an emergency root canal to do this AM.
I’m surprised he hasn’t weighed in on all of this.
I don’t really know what Hanley is thinking, but I do know he ain’t playin’ SS. Reyes runs rings around him.
jacksquat December 9th, 2011 at 10:53 am
The Marlins said they wanted Pujols (and not Fielder) because Pujols would be a latin attraction. Well, if they can afford Pujols, they can certainly afford the last 6 years of A-Rod’s contract. He’s latin, *and* has Miami ties.
A-Rod for Hanley straight up?
half joking…
======================
Not for Hanley. I think that it would be terrific if the Yanks could get out from under that contract of A-Rod’s, but Hanley has a pretty bad rep. A-Rod has turned into a pretty solid team guy, IMO.
Rays aren’t messing around w/ Matt Moore.
5 years/$14M with team options that can bring to 8 years and $40M.
“Bret – The team barely needed a tweak, all they needed to do was play better one day in October. it wasn’t a lack of personnel that sent the Yankees home this year”
Al the Red Sox needed to do was play one game better in September to make the playoffs.
Every team can say the same thing. “If it wasnt for this we coulda been somebody”
Truth be told the Yankees have won once in the last decade despite spending nearly 2 billion on players. Meanwhile Cashman preaches patience but doesn’t show the patience himself when his highly touted prospects don’t live up to their hype immediately.
Cashman solves most of his problems with money. He cries poverty constantly any time he may have to trade one of his highly touted prospects that he doesn’t use anyway.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 10:44 am
Chip – Have you actually looked at his splits? He doesn’t pitch any worse on the road, and actually has better numbers against teams over .500…
—————-
Home/Road splits can also be misleading and, especially in this case are meaningless
Look at the teams in the NL West (his primary opposition) With the exception of Coors all the parks play extremely to pitchers and with the exception of Kemp and Justin Upton there’s not a prolific hitter in the division (and Kemp’s on his team so he never faces him)
You’re going from home games at Dodger Stadium and road games at ATT Park, Petco and whatever Arizona’s park is called, to home games at Yankee Stadium and road games in Fenway, Camden and the Trop.
To me, those home/road splits tell me as little as considering a pitcher’s numbers as a visitor at Yankee stadium and trying to determine whether he would make a good pick up. His numbers as a visitor at Yankee stadium tell you how he pitched against the Yankees – which he wouldn’t do as a Yankee.
For all we know Colon is once again going thru that stem-cell procedure as we speak. For the $$$ required he is worth it. As I said, he could Long-Man if all else failed. I still would Not have gone the Rule 5 route for a Long-Man. Cashman did a number on Golson for a pig inna poke.
Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 10:54 am
It was pretty obvious that Colon was done after half the year, I don’t think he can regain that first half form he showed last year.
————-
By the second half of the year Colon had already pitched a lot more than half a season – remember, his work out started earlier than everyone else’s and he pitched in Winter League as well.
He was worn down.
Put him on a regular schedule with everyone else and you can probably get more out of him – then again I wouldn’t necessarily expect it either.
They should look for the next Colon instead of investing big in the last one (Kelvim Escobar is trying to make a comeback)
Chip – The only stadiums he has a bad ERA in are Coors field and Citifield (and chase to some degree). He has not had trouble pitching anywhere else. They are completely relevant. Do you even know what the adjustment factors are for the parks? Fractions of a run, insignificant when talking about one player that doesn’t give up HR’s anyway (actually gives up less home runs per inning on the road than in LA).
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Chip – If you are paying $12mil and expecting a 3ERA pitcher, you are doing it wrong. If you “end up with” a 4-4.5 ERA pitcher… you got exactly what you paid for.
———–
If you can get him and rid yourself of AJ – fine. If you’re getting him and ending Phil Hughes’s chances of starting then it’s a bad move.
And I would never allow the Yankees to talk about their “elite” pitching prospects again because the supposed big three of IPK, Hughes and Joba would have been a complete failure and you couldn’t do anything to convince me that Betances and Banuelos would be any better.
@Jon_Heyman: #yankees like kuroda very much. No offer yet, but they have interest. Hiroki didn’t want to leave LA but dodgers r out of $
Jon_HeymanJon Heyman
#yankees like kuroda very much. No offer yet, but they have interest. Hiroki didn’t want to leave LA but dodgers r out of $
4 minutes ago
Jack-
Don’t feel bad. I’m not convinced Hanley knows what Hanley is thinking.
Sorry LGY, didn’t see your post.
Brian “Small Market” Cashman has done it again. What you ask,well he rappeled off a building, he bottom fed for some rule 5 players. I almost cried when he said we can’t afford any of the top tier players. Hey Assman I can’t afford $8.00 hot dogs at the stadium but I buy them for me & my kids & $8.00 bottles of water that cost you about .25 cents. If George were here you ass would have been fired long ago. You should have been booted with Torre. No hope for my Yanks till this puke is gone, hopefully to Pittsburg orCinncy.
I’m fine with Kuroded as long as he replaces AJ.
Reyes is gonna end up being a horrible investment. The guy plays when he wants, and defensively issa butcher. Reyes + Ozzie = Meltdown In Miami.
The difference between Kuroda pitching all of his home games in NY compared to LA… only considering the “park factor” of moving from a pitchers park to a hitter park? 0.195 more runs scored per game… So over 16 home starts he would give up an extra 3 runs. 3.
Patrick
I agree with the idea of signing Kuroda, trading AJ and going after Darvish however I disagree with moving Nova or Hughes to the ‘pen.
Both of those kids HAVE to take the ball every 5th day and make their 33-34 starts this season.
if the Yanks accomplish all that then I’m sorry but Freddy is the odd man out and goes to the ‘pen as the 6th starter/long man.
CC
Darvish
Kuroda
Nova
Hughes
Freddy/Bartolo
AAA Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Bettances, Banuelos, Mitchell
In a perfect world Bettances and Banuelos each make 25 starts 6-7 innings in AAA this season (160-170 innings) and don’t see the big leagues til Sept. callups but are ready for full time duty in 2013.
Hughes if he can repeat his 2010 perfromance would reestablish his value which would be huge for the Yanks next offseason with Nova repeating his performance last season.
Can someone remind me how Texas has a ton of money again? Is Nolan funding this Yu bid himself? I’m just confused because I though MLB was bailing them out not even two seasons ago..right?
Chip – I would never allow the Yankees to talk about their “elite” pitching prospects again
Can’t trade for an Nl pitcher because of one bad deal, can’t talk about prospects because they ran out of FA’s to buy and got stuck calling up some arms early one year… I’m sure a hitter that you want struck out one time, so he can’t be signed.
You need to learn to let go pal.
If Banuelos would take it, I’d seriously consider offering the Matt Moore deal to him the day he gets to the bigs.
filthy slider December 9th, 2011 at 11:10 am
Brian “Small Market” Cashman has done it again. What you ask,well he rappeled off a building, he bottom fed for some rule 5 players. I almost cried when he said we can’t afford any of the top tier players. Hey Assman I can’t afford $8.00 hot dogs at the stadium but I buy them for me & my kids & $8.00 bottles of water that cost you about .25 cents. If George were here you ass would have been fired long ago. You should have been booted with Torre. No hope for my Yanks till this puke is gone, hopefully to Pittsburg orCinncy.
=======================
Right. Because Cashman invented charging ridiculous prices for concessions in Yankee Stadium….
champ,
Why do Hughes and Nova HAVE to make 33-34 starts? Neither guy is going to be a top end starter, it’s not imperative that they are developed perfectly, especially with Banuelos and Betances on the way. The goal is to win the world series and Freddy pitching in the rotation helps you do that.
Who do Yu all think Yu are?
Cashman is going for Yu Know Who–all in, although for less than people think. Texas and the rest are not willing to spend the big big posting bucks. The Yankees are, if the scouts really like him.
Kuroda is the back up plan if they lose the bid or can’t come to an agreement with Yu.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Chip – The only stadiums he has a bad ERA in are Coors field and Citifield (and chase to some degree). He has not had trouble pitching anywhere else. They are completely relevant. Do you even know what the adjustment factors are for the parks? Fractions of a run, insignificant when talking about one player that doesn’t give up HR’s anyway (actually gives up less home runs per inning on the road than in LA).
—————–
No, they’re not relevant – no more than if I were to point out that his ERA against AL Teams in 68 IP is 4.33
The sample size of the stats you’re cherrypicking is too small – the simple logic is that a 38 year old pitcher going from a no-DH league with weaker hitters and more friendly parks to a league featuring longer lineups, better hitters and smaller ballparks is not going to be as successful.
The other day I asked Patrick I think for examples of pitchers who have succeeded making that transition late in their careers – Curt Schilling and to a lesser extent Jon Leiber are the only ones who qualify.
Historical evidence dictates that Kuroda would be a mid rotation starter at best as a Yankee.
Can someone remind me how Texas has a ton of money again? Is Nolan funding this Yu bid himself? I’m just confused because I though MLB was bailing them out not even two seasons ago..right?
================================
Different, much wealthier ownership.
Dog-
The Rays are very wise to lock up Moore. If he stays healthy he’s gonna be a stud.
I can’t say how damn impressed I am with his arm and his demeanor. One of the best I’ve seen come along in quite some time.
He makes it look effortless. Can we steal him ?
dogface – I figured, I just didnt follow it closely.
Historical evidence dictates that Kuroda would be a mid rotation starter at best as a Yankee.
–
lol ok
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Chip – I would never allow the Yankees to talk about their “elite” pitching prospects again
Can’t trade for an Nl pitcher because of one bad deal, can’t talk about prospects because they ran out of FA’s to buy and got stuck calling up some arms early one year… I’m sure a hitter that you want struck out one time, so he can’t be signed.
You need to learn to let go pal.
—————–
Way to exaggerate my stance to try and discredit me.
I never said you can’t sign any NL pitcher – I said I would stay away from old NL pitchers who have thrived in bad parks – that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t trade for Kershaw in a second or sign Cole Hamels…but yeah, they’re exactly the same as Hiroki Kuroda right?
As for the prospects – when you have the exact same people running the development of this current crop of Yankee pitching prospects as you had running the last crop then why should I be confident in getting better results?
And rushing Hughes, Joba and Kennedy had nothing to do with the fact that Joba is injury prone or that Hughes was conditioned to be a 5 and fly guy who can’t physically handle pitching deep into games for a full season without missing nearly the entire next season with a bum shoulder.
They lost because their starter most unfortunately got hurt in warmups in Game 5, because Joe Girardi approached Game 2 like it was a June throw-away, and because he let a hitting prodigy with a knack for making meaningful contact rot on the bench while we swung out of our shoes at pitches way out of the strike zone. Also, he had a red hot hitter in Posada but somehow couldn’t bring himself to move him up in the order.
What hurts was not losing, it’s knowing we had the ammo to win. Laying Game 5 at CC’s feet, when he’s not used to coming in in relief, is so Game 7, 2004 (see Javy). The positive is, we had the team to advance and we have the team to do so in 2012. Kuroda is fine, he’s a one-year thing. If they lust for Darvish, well that doesn’t get taxed and we give up no super specs.
Doesn’t mean they’re not cooking something bigger up, but I’m content as things are. We’re pretty good.
Chip – Stop trying to shoehorn pitchers into the mold of other old pitchers.
Historical evidence dictates that Kuroda would be a mid rotation starter at best as a Yankee.
Yeah… DUH… that’s why he’s only getting a 1 year $12mil deal…
who do you think they are trying to sign? Kuroda is not cy young, no one is pretending he will be.
Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 11:19 am
Historical evidence dictates that Kuroda would be a mid rotation starter at best as a Yankee.
–
lol ok
————-
Do you dispute the fact that there is historical evidence to suggest that NL pitchers struggle coming to the AL?
Sorry LGY, didn’t see your post
—-
Haha no worries. I’m surprised Erin didn’t beat both us to it
<i.Hughes was conditioned to be a 5 and fly guy who can’t physically handle pitching deep into games for a full season without missing nearly the entire next season with a bum shoulde
lol… I’m done with this.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Chip – Stop trying to shoehorn pitchers into the mold of other old pitchers.
Historical evidence dictates that Kuroda would be a mid rotation starter at best as a Yankee.
Yeah… DUH… that’s why he’s only getting a 1 year $12mil deal…
who do you think they are trying to sign? Kuroda is not cy young, no one is pretending he will be.
————–
Well then I don’t see the point in signing him. The Yankees have enough mid rotation starters – and young players that they seem to believe could be mid rotation starters – if you’re not bringing Kuroda in to be a number 2 behind CC then what are you gaining?
Luxury Tax-
The luxury tax is not actually “given to the small-market teams”, as is sometimes reported. The money from the luxury tax is used for player benefits, funding baseball outreach programs in countries where high school and college baseball does not exist, and an “Industry Growth Fund”. The redistribution of money from big-revenue to small-revenue clubs happens through a different mechanism: specifically, sharing approx. 30% of each team’s local revenue
Colon was not done “halfway through the season”, he still had an ERA in the low 3′s in early September. That’s after pitching winter ball. I would think the Yankees would be interested if the price hasn’t gone up too much. I don’t see anyone offering him a two year deal.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 11:21 am
<i.Hughes was conditioned to be a 5 and fly guy who can’t physically handle pitching deep into games for a full season without missing nearly the entire next season with a bum shoulde
lol… I’m done with this.
———-
Thank god – I just realized that I was trying to make a point to someone who doesn't actually watch baseball – just follows it on baseballreference.com
Is the debate Kuroda vs. Colon?
Money aside, Kuroda.
jacksquat December 9th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Colon was not done “halfway through the season”, he still had an ERA in the low 3?s in early September. That’s after pitching winter ball. I would think the Yankees would be interested if the price hasn’t gone up too much. I don’t see anyone offering him a two year deal.
————-
If Colon’s willing to take another minor league deal I’m on board – I wouldn’t lock down a spot on the 25 man roster for him though.
Why does it matter how old Kuroda is if you are only signing him to a one year contract?
Do you dispute the fact that there is historical evidence to suggest that NL pitchers struggle coming to the AL?
No, why are you picking arguments that no one is having?
You are telling me that we can’t sign Kuroda on a very fair one year deal because Kevin Brown was a bad pitcher. Somehow THAT is relevant, but Kruoda’s road numbers aren’t?
You’re crazy.
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Sorry LGY, didn’t see your post
?-
Haha no worries. I?m surprised Erin didn?t beat both us to it
*********************
I probably would have, but I don’t follow Heyman.
m December 9th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Is the debate Kuroda vs. Colon?
Money aside, Kuroda.
———-
No, I think the debate is Kuroda vs. Darvish
m-
How can it be “money aside” ?
Is the cost/benefit always part of the equation ?
Thank god – I just realized that I was trying to make a point to someone who doesn’t actually watch baseball – just follows it on baseballreference.com
lol… get a clue man.
eboland11 Am starting to think it’s very possible the Yankees don’t submit a bid of any kind for Yu Darvish
m-
meant to “isn’t”. sorry.
Chip December 9th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 11:19 am
Historical evidence dictates that Kuroda would be a mid rotation starter at best as a Yankee.
–
lol ok
————-
Do you dispute the fact that there is historical evidence to suggest that NL pitchers struggle coming to the AL?
==============
You factor in about a 10-percent increase in their ERA and WHIP to account for the fact that they don’t get to face the pitcher, moving to the AL from the NL.
And nobody is talking about offering Kuroda top-of-the-rotation money ($16 to 23 million per year)
Why anyone wants to gamble $12 Mill onna 36yr old NL Chucker that 6 months ago did NOT wanna pitch for us, is beyond me. He had his chance. NEXT……………………
Erin-
Don’t tell JF.
donnybrook – Gambling $12mil or $100mil… which sounds smarter?
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Do you dispute the fact that there is historical evidence to suggest that NL pitchers struggle coming to the AL?
No, why are you picking arguments that no one is having?
You are telling me that we can’t sign Kuroda on a very fair one year deal because Kevin Brown was a bad pitcher. Somehow THAT is relevant, but Kruoda’s road numbers aren’t?
You’re crazy.
——————–
No, what I said was that I wouldn’t sign Kuroda because I don’t think you’re going to get the Kuroda who pitched for the Dodgers last year. I think you will get an AL adjusted Kuroda and showing Kevin Brown as what that could look like (based on age, stuff and the fact that they both pitched in similar circumstances) and that I don’t see that representing a fit for what the Yankees need.
They don’t need another +4 – 5 ERA pitcher – that’s what I see Kuroda being in the AL East.
Do you dispute the fact that there is historical evidence to suggest that NL pitchers struggle coming to the AL?
–
Hey I’m agreeing with you…
But yueah you are exaggerating it a great deal. There is some difference but it’s not like a guy goes from being a good pitcher to mediocrity
I think I would would rather pay $8-10M for 1 year of Kuroda than a cheapie deal to Colon.
Colon was an amazing, fascinating surprise last year. But it was always waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Chip,
Kuroda for 1 year because I know he can pitch in the states. 1 and done works great for me because it gives us flexibility for a good 2012 FA pitching class.
Don’t like the idea of paying $100M for 5 or 6 years of Yu.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 11:26 am
lol… get a clue man
———
Truly a compelling argument
jacksquat December 9th, 2011 at 11:24 am
Colon was not done “halfway through the season”, he still had an ERA in the low 3?s in early September. That’s after pitching winter ball. I would think the Yankees would be interested if the price hasn’t gone up too much. I don’t see anyone offering him a two year deal.
=====
Yeah, and I don’t think that a minor-league deal would cut it with him this year either. Give him $2 million for one year, plus incentives up to $8 million if he pitches more than 160 innings.
Chip – And as I showed you… Kuroda’s AL adjusted numbers would still better than everyone on the Yankee staff but CC. If you want to ignore facts that fine… just don’t expect me to listen to you.
For $12mil they could have anywhere from a #4 to a #2… there’s no risk here at all. Significantly less than Darvish or any other options out there to improve the starting staff.
Chip
So let me get this straight.
You would approved of the Yankees signing Matt Cain to a 100M contract but it is not worth 12M for Kuroda.
Similar performance. Same division. But one is younger so the NL to AL transition is not a concern?
Truly a compelling argument
I should know better than to argue with an idiot.
Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 11:30 am
Do you dispute the fact that there is historical evidence to suggest that NL pitchers struggle coming to the AL?
–
Hey I’m agreeing with you…
But yueah you are exaggerating it a great deal. There is some difference but it’s not like a guy goes from being a good pitcher to mediocrity
————-
Um…I can cite four guys without even trying who were better than Kuroda who did exactly that
Randy Johnson
Kevin Brown
Chan Ho Park
Javy Vazquez (Montreal version)
Almost as compelling as telling me i don’t watch baseball… when you are the one making stupid assumptions based on completely unrelated past incidents.
I’d love to hear this, what do you want to do that is a better idea than paying Kruoda $12mil for 1 season?
Colon was done because he lost movement on his fastball, which at one time was the best on the Yankee staff. Maybe he needs some stem cells again.
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:33 am
Chip
So let me get this straight.
You would approved of the Yankees signing Matt Cain to a 100M contract but it is not worth 12M for Kuroda.
Similar performance. Same division. But one is younger so the NL to AL transition is not a concern?
—————–
I would be concerned either way but yeah – I would have more faith in Cain than Kuroda for the fact that one is in his prime and the other is at an age where skills tend to diminish anyway.
It’s no one factor that turns me off to Kuroda, it’s the combination.
Kuroda > Garcia > Colon
Kuroda may be the highest end and cheapest option although not my favorite.
You see a team again in TB locking up Moore.
The Yankees need to at least attempt to land Darvish because the pipe dreams of getting any high end starter in FA is out the window and any trade will cost them quite a bit of talent.
At the end of the day you are plugging a hole this year and going forward
Hideki Kuroda is a very good pitcher. The Yankees would do very well to sign him.
Of all the options on the table right now – signing Kuroda balances competing short and long term objectives favorably compared to available alternatives.
It gives the yankees more quality depth and innings for this season. No he’s not an ideal #2 – but the fact is there is no ideal #2 available right now at a rational cost. And while he’s not an ideal 2 he’s only signed to a one year deal at very reasonable money.
This would allow them to try to get rid of Burnett (which is what I think they will try very hard to do). At the same time they can provide spots to Hughes and Nova while keeping Noesi stretched in AAA as a 6th starter (which the team will invariably need).
Kuroda also gives the Yanks flexibility to make a move for Hamels (or Cain) next winter should they hit the market. If Hamels hits the market and the Yanks sign him – that’s the jackpot. That’s road back to the next dynasty. It’s not a given by any mean they can get him – but that’s the upside.
All that said – these leaks about Kuroda right after Darvish was posted seem like potential misdirection. Not saying that the Yanks aren’t interested in Kuroda – but I’d have to think if they have any interest in Darvish they will let that process play out first.
Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Colon was done because he lost movement on his fastball, which at one time was the best on the Yankee staff. Maybe he needs some stem cells again.
===========
Colon fatigued from the work load, which included winter ball last year. With rest and recovery from his workload in 2011, Colon could again be effective in 2012.
BryanHoch #Yankees have signed RHP Freddy Garcia, officially. To make room on 40-man, OF Colin Curtis designated for assignment.
What’s the worse that can happen with Kuroda?
It’s one year and it’s not like the Yankees are looking to spend that money somewhere else.
Colon is a perfect arm for the pen next year. A few innings in long relief. Playoff time if he is still healthy, a strong one inning guy if he rebounds. It would be a disaster to need him as a starter at any point next year.
Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2011 at 11:36 am
I’d love to hear this, what do you want to do that is a better idea than paying Kruoda $12mil for 1 season?
————
Stick with what’s already here.
Am I certain that Nova or Freddy will perform as well as they did last year? No
Am I certain that Hughes will become the pitcher he was supposed to be? No
Am I certain that AJ will be the pitcher he was in 2009 as opposed to the one he’s been the last two years? No
Am I certain that Noesi, Banuelos, Betances, Warren or Phelps can come in as well as Nova did if someone falters? No
But I’m also not certain that Kuroda is going to be any good with the Yankees so replacing one of those question marks with another one doesn’t serve a purpose. Especially if you’re sacrificing a 25 year old Hughes or blocking one of those prospects in favor of a 38 year old Kuroda.
Randy Johnson
Kevin Brown
Chan Ho Park
Javy Vazquez (Montreal version)
—
Tiny sample size and on what planet is Chan Ho Park better than Kuroda? I can’t find it at the moment but there is an adjustment from NL to AL and it’s significant but not as drastic as you think.
- ID -
36yr old NL Chucker that wanted Nothing to do with the Yanks vs 25yr old Phenom. Easy choice when it boils down to $$$$.
*worst*
Auto correct is killing me today.
Also – if it’s at all possible I would try to sign Colon and see if he’ll take the swing man role out of the pen.
I really like what I saw from him. His second half decline didn’t surprise me at all given how few innings he’s thrown.
In some ways I think his first half was a better indication of what he is than his second half.
At the same time you can’t just depend on him in the rotation because he’s very unlikely to be able to throw 200 innings and he’s still a huge injury time bomb.
Don’t know what the market for him will be – but I’d try bringing him back and would given him a higher guaranteed money deal to do so.
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am
What’s the worse that can happen with Kuroda?
It’s one year and it’s not like the Yankees are looking to spend that money somewhere else.
——————–
“what’s the worst that can happen” is the question you ask when you’re inviting a guy like Colon in on a spring training look-see – not when handing out a 12 mil ML contract.
CB December 9th, 2011 at 11:38 am
All that said – these leaks about Kuroda right after Darvish was posted seem like potential misdirection. Not saying that the Yanks aren’t interested in Kuroda – but I’d have to think if they have any interest in Darvish they will let that process play out first.
================
I think that the timing is just an idle coincidence, more a function of Wilson and Buerhle signing than anything else.
They will know if they won the bidding on the posting by Monday. Assuming they don’t bid anything ridiculous in the posting, I suspect that if they win the bid, then they will sign Darvish.
I guess when it comes to Colon the Yankees may feel that the lightning must have escaped from the bottle otherwise why not re-sign Bartolo if they are just looking for depth ?
He’d be cheaper and probably more than the equal of Kuroda for less money. He could also work out of the pen. Unless he has another offer he would likely accept another 1 yr. contract.
I’m not terribly opposed to Kuroda (and not going to compare him to Kevin Brown ffs), but I do think his ERA is likely to go up around 4. Tougher parks, better hitters, plus the DH. I’m not so sure that Colon wouldn’t be just as good.
Trade for Danks and settle arb at 8M-giving up Romine, Nunez and a pitcher—NO
Trade for Gio and give up Montero and Betances-Hell NO
Trade for Garza and give up a boatload-NO NO
Trade for Jurrjens and get a pitcher whose oft injured and lost velocity. NO. If the Braves don’t want him we don’t need him.
Win the bid for Darvish and sign him to no less than 6/60-Am interested but it’s not my money.
Go for a one year deal on a FA-Might make sense!
“what’s the worst that can happen” is the question you ask when you’re inviting a guy like Colon in on a spring training look-see – not when handing out a 12 mil ML contract.
——
Explain.
Chip – Why would you think he would be “blocking” any of those guys, or care since you don’t think any of them are any good?
The Yankees rolled into the season with 6 starters last year. They needed 7. You can never have enough starting pitching.
For $12mil, you aren’t going to find a lower risk signing than Kuroda anywhere.
donnybrook – That’s not the question I asked you.
Phranchise December 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Colon is a perfect arm for the pen next year. A few innings in long relief. Playoff time if he is still healthy, a strong one inning guy if he rebounds. It would be a disaster to need him as a starter at any point next year.
==================
I’m sure that people were saying this exact same thing last year at this time.
Patrick December 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Randy Johnson
Kevin Brown
Chan Ho Park
Javy Vazquez (Montreal version)
—
Tiny sample size and on what planet is Chan Ho Park better than Kuroda? I can’t find it at the moment but there is an adjustment from NL to AL and it’s significant but not as drastic as you think.
——–
Alright – Chan Ho was a bit of a stretch upon looking up the stats.
And again – these were the first four that came to mind – but remember – I asked you for the guys who came over who actually performed well – Curt Schilling and Pedro are the only ones I can think of and Pedro was in the prime of his career – not over the hill like Kuroda is.
-PHRANCHISE-
Very well said.
Thank god – I just realized that I was trying to make a point to someone who doesn’t actually watch baseball – just follows it on baseballreference.com
///
…err…fangraphs. baseballreference is now a dinosaur
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:41 am
What’s the worse that can happen with Kuroda?
=========
He might punch a wall in the dugout!
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:45 am
“what’s the worst that can happen” is the question you ask when you’re inviting a guy like Colon in on a spring training look-see – not when handing out a 12 mil ML contract.
——
Explain.
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Sticking with Colon for example – there was no downside. If he stunk (even after breaking camp with the Yankees) the Yankees could release him and bring someone else into his spot.
For an example of what the worst result could be with Kuroda you don’t have to look any further than what the Yankees went through with Javy Vazquez this last time around. He was useless but because of his salary the Yankees had to keep him around and find ways to work around him, they tried burying him in the pen, skipping starts, but it was at the detriment of the team in general.
JCRMarlinsbeat
Samson: #marlins offerred nowhere near $275 million for Pujols. Offer a little over $200M
New Post: Garcia becomes official, Colin Curtis DFA
And again – these were the first four that came to mind – but remember – I asked you for the guys who came over who actually performed well – Curt Schilling and Pedro are the only ones I can think of and Pedro was in the prime of his career – not over the hill like Kuroda is.
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Ok obviously I don’t have the greatest memory. But like I said if you take a census of all pitchers that have switched leagues in modern times the difference is SIGNIFICANT but not HUGE like you are saying it is. I wish I could find those numbers and prove it but alas I can’t.
Chip December 9th, 2011 at 11:49 am
LGY December 9th, 2011 at 11:45 am
“what’s the worst that can happen” is the question you ask when you’re inviting a guy like Colon in on a spring training look-see – not when handing out a 12 mil ML contract.
——
Explain.
———-
Sticking with Colon for example – there was no downside. If he stunk (even after breaking camp with the Yankees) the Yankees could release him and bring someone else into his spot.
For an example of what the worst result could be with Kuroda you don’t have to look any further than what the Yankees went through with Javy Vazquez this last time around. He was useless but because of his salary the Yankees had to keep him around and find ways to work around him, they tried burying him in the pen, skipping starts, but it was at the detriment of the team in general.
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Umm… that’s not actually the way that it happened in 2010. Vazquez got off to a slow start in 2010, rebounded in May, June, and July. He succumbed with some kind of dead arm problem in August, and the Yanks tried different things to fix him, before ultimately giving up on him.
Vazquez is a career 4.65 ERA in the AL and a 3.99 in the NL, about a 17 percent difference.
Basically any pitcher the Yankees have gotten from the Braves, except for Mike Stanton, has not performed well.
Yankee Trader December 9th, 2011 at 11:44 am
Trade for Danks and settle arb at 8M-giving up Romine, Nunez and a pitcher—NO
Trade for Gio and give up Montero and Betances-Hell NO
Trade for Garza and give up a boatload-NO NO
Trade for Jurrjens and get a pitcher whose oft injured and lost velocity. NO. If the Braves don’t want him we don’t need him.
Win the bid for Darvish and sign him to no less than 6/60-Am interested but it’s not my money.
Go for a one year deal on a FA-Might make sense!
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Hell, yeah, Trader.
Ghostwriter – Exactly. Someone between Vazquez and Burnett needed to be pitching better, so they didn’t get pulled from the rotation. They were a virtual lock for the playoffs by August so why not let them figure it out? No reason to cut a player when you are coasting your way into the postseason. This is why you can’t just lump past events together, there is plenty of context around every players situation that makes it different. RJ had back problems before he ever came to NY, Kevin Brown lost 2-3mph on his fastball/sinker the year he came to NY, and clearly couldnt handle the pressure because he punched a wall. Vazquez has failed on 2 seperate stints in NY, but was fine in Chicago… so the NL to AL move has nothing to do with his problems. Chan Ho Park sucked.
On a more important note…. Have you noticed how big Bobby Valentine’s ears are? He looks like a friggin elf in that picture!