Looking back at a busy week (for teams other than the Yankees)
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 11, 2011 
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The Winter Meetings are always full of possibility, and for some teams, that possibility becomes tangible trades and free agent signings. For the Yankees, this year’s Winter Meetings began quietly with Brian Cashman arriving later than most every other executive. By the time Cashman left, the Yankees had won the negotiating rights to a Japanese shortstop and picked two pitchers in the Rule 5 draft.
Cashman told everyone to expect a quiet week, and he delivered exactly that.
“For me to be able to push through something, I’m probably going to have to overpay to do that, and that’s a tough thing to do, especially when you’re sitting with a lot of talent, a lot of people you could slot in and (have them) do this job,” Cashman said. “It’s just, do you want to bet on somebody doing it significantly better at the expense of payroll flexibility going forward or (the loss of a prospect in a trade)? I’m OK with the balancing act. I’m OK with the decision making. I didn’t expect much, and it’s hard to improve on what we already have.”
Here’s a quick look at the past week in review.
• A one-year deal with Freddy Garcia was finalized immediately after the Winter Meetings, giving the Yankees a fifth returning starter and further minimizing the need to make a significant move for the rotation.
• With the highest posting bid, the Yankees won the right to negotiate with Japanese shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima. The Yankees have a month to secure a deal for a player they view as a utility infielder ready to step in at the big league level.
• The Yankees traded up and took two players in the Rule 5 draft. Lefty Cesar Cabral comes out of the Red Sox organization to compete for a left-handed spot in the bullpen. Right-hander Brad Meyers comes from the Nationals and will try to be the long man.
• The Yankees released outfielder Greg Golson and designated outfielder Colin Curtis for assignment.
• Hector Noesi continued to get himself stretched out in winter ball, making his longest start of the offseason. Cashman said last week that the Yankees have no intention of using Noesi as a reliever next season.
• Yu Darvish was posted, though it’s unclear whether the Yankees plan to make a bid.
• Some of the winter’s top free agents, including Albert Pujols, C.J. Wilson and Mark Buehrle came off the board as the Marlins and Angels were the most aggressive teams of the Winter Meetings.
• It was announced that Rutgers and Iowa State will play in the Pinstripe Bowl at Yankee Stadium.
Associated Press photo
Nice summary Chad.
Thanks for all the hard work.
The blog just isn’t the same when you’re not manning it.
Chad-
Just curious. What’s your take ?
Who do you think will wind up with the rights to negotiate with Darvish ?
How much do you think the cost for that privledge will be ?
MTU -
2008 Joba was amazing. He was on his way. I still hold that injury as the root of everything that ensued. He was ready to compete at the ML level. He was full of p- and vinegar and didn’t have control issues or anything. The Beckett start? A classic. And what makes it hard for anyone to fully accept the current situation, even for those of us who have seemingly stopped “fighting the fight” regarding Joba as a starter.
If I am Cashman, I am contacting GMs before the bid deadline to check again for possible moves. I tell Williams, e.g., if we get Darvish’s rights , we are out of the running for anyone else.
J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2011 at 8:49 am
Against All Odds December 10th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
# Jerkface December 10th, 2011 at 9:48 pm
I would post Chamberlain’s starter stats in the minors, but it would be too embarrassing for bard.
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His starting stats in the mL would embarrass a lot of ppl
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2008 Joba, given half a chance, may have blossomed into the “No. 2? we seek. LMAO at Cashman, saying he doesn’t want to “waste Noesi’s time” in long relief; and that they thought enough of Nova to send him back down to work on his slider….
No guarantees, but Joba COULD have become that guy, and Vizcaino could be the bullpen arm we substituted for Joba, and perhaps, we even could have kept that pick we gave up for Soriano (whose arm I really like, btw).
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Crazy to think how many things were thrown of course after the 2008 injury. I never thought about it like that JAP.
MTU December 11th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Nice summary Chad.
Thanks for all the hard work.
The blog just isn’t the same when you’re not manning it.
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He’s the ace of the staff. Real great work.
And maybe I’m reading too much into those Rule 5 pickups, but they look pretty good on paper. Not the usual type of junk you can see with these..
Villa Nova-Ya December 11th, 2011 at 9:02 am
J Alfred -
As I think back, I think the mistake the Yankees made with Joba was not sending him to AAA (even though his stuff was “too good” for AAA) for the fine-tuning, rather than having him learn on the job. However, it’s 20/20 hindsight, IMO. And I remember Joba post-2008 injury as being a completely different pitcher (whether it was loss of confidence or a lingering fear of re-injury or whatever), that not was able to get back to form. It seemed to me the Yankees tried everything (which sometimes ends up doing more harm than good, but not because that was the intent).
The bottom line is we will never know for sure everything that was happening with Joba. I’ll say though that Joba himself seems to have a great attitude and doesn’t seem to harbor any bitterness or ill-will. I’d always hoped he be a starter, but what will be will be.
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I thought that Joba had done a pretty decent job as a starter in 2009. (Frankly, in his time as a starter, Joba has been more effective as a starter than Hughes.) I never understood the Yanks’ decision to relegate him to the ‘pen, coming out of ST in 2010. I can understand giving the fifth spot to Hughes, because he won the competition. However, I didn’t see how Hughes winning the fift spot in the rotation directly led to Joba in the ‘m. It it seemed to me that the correct thing to do with Joba was to send him back to Triple-A to start the season to give Joba a chance to straighten out his issues.
Just getting a chance to watch part of the Pujols rally/presser from yesterday.
He comes off defensive on things he doesn’t want to address, evasive on others and has flubbed teammates names and the city.
Don’t know enough about the Anaheim media but the NY media could have a field day with Albert if they chose to.
VN-
I completely understand.
The Yankees have made their decision IMO, and I think it’s final.
Joba was always going to be high risk/high reward.
2008 Joba, given half a chance, may have blossomed into the “No. 2? we seek. LMAO at Cashman, saying he doesn’t want to “waste Noesi’s time” in long relief; and that they thought enough of Nova to send him back down to work on his slider….
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I gotta say, whether Cashman was right or wrong with Joba, I’m happy they’ve changed their approach with Noesi. I do think we have to cut Cashman and the organization some slack with Joba/Kennedy/Hughes, because they hadn’t developed pitchers in a very long time.
The process seems much more fine tuned with this current crop of guys. They’ve shown a lot of patience and trust with the guys. They’re willing to find roles to get guys involved, and they’re willing to hold onto their talent.
I have never understood those who pitted one young starter over another.
Me. I wanted both of them to succeed in equal measure.
Still do.
Kev-
Let’s hope you are right.
An arm is a terrible thing to waste.
Ghostwriter -
Agree about 2010. 100%.
Which is why I will always think there’s something we don’t know.
VNY,
I concluded the same thing: There must be something that we don’t know that the Yankee FO knows, because giving up on him as a starter in 2010 seemed premature.
Unfortunately, one of the things that can derail great young talent, pitching or otherwise, is a failure to stay healthy.
This is particularly true of young Pitchers.
The act of throwing a baseball is very unnatural.
I cite the number of TJ’s as evidence. It almost seems as common as going out to get a newspaper.
Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that free agent outfielders Carlos Beltran and Michael Cuddyer appear to be “too expensive” for the Red Sox. Cafardo says the Sox don’t want to go over the $178 million luxury tax threshold, and after David Ortiz accepted arbitration, they’re evidently not far away from that number. He anticipates that they’ll only be able to afford a “mid-level right fielder” at this point and thinks “even Cody Ross might cost too much.” The Sox are also searching for a No. 5 starter, but Cafardo says their budget for one is only “about $3-$5 million.” The apparent financial crunch that has the Red Sox, according to Cafardo, “going about things as if they were the Pirates or Royals,” is also a factor in why they seem to prefer trading for Andrew Bailey rather than just signing Ryan Madson
http://www.rotoworld.com/headl.....dlines?r=1
radiokev,
by re-signing Garcia and to this point anyway, retaining AJ, that leaves no spot open for any of Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Mitchell etc… given that, how is NY showing patience and trust in their MiL talent if they do not even give any of them a shot as a #5 starter. Especially if they bid hard on Darvish.
If NY jettisons AJ and opens up that slot to any of these guys then I will buy off on it, but to me Cashman has been nothing but a bunch of talk on patience and trust.
It is also why I favor a strong “preventative medicine” program such the one advocated by Dr. Mike Marshall for our young Pitchers.
Between that and wise application of the Verducci principles we might be able to help more guys stay healthy enough to reach their cielings.
Great job by Cash getting Chief off the market quickly. The Sox would have definitely tried to get him.
On another note, remember when some Yankee fans were scared the Sox were going to sign Reyes and/or Prince this winter?
yankee21 December 11th, 2011 at 9:46 am
radiokev,
by re-signing Garcia and to this point anyway, retaining AJ, that leaves no spot open for any of Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Mitchell etc… given that, how is NY showing patience and trust in their MiL talent if they do not even give any of them a shot as a #5 starter. Especially if they bid hard on Darvish.
If NY jettisons AJ and opens up that slot to any of these guys then I will buy off on it, but to me Cashman has been nothing but a bunch of talk on patience and trust.
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When was the last time a rotation on any team remained stable throughout the entire season? Does that happen ever?
Noesi will get action as a starter in the majors, and I’d bet one of Warren/Phelps/Mitchell will as well. Having depth, as proven last season by the Yankees success and the Red Sox failure, is a great strength.
Also from Cafardo
5. Mike Brown, scout, Diamondbacks – He was Yu Darvish’s pitching coach for three years with the Nippon Ham Fighters. “He’s the real deal,’’ Brown said. “He’s got great stuff, a great presence on the mound. He would definitely be a top pitcher here if he comes out.’’
9. Hiroki Kuroda, RHP, free agent – The Yankees have made a one-year, $12 million offer, and the Red Sox also seem interested, as they were at last season’s trading deadline, when Kuroda informed the Dodgers that he did not want to leave Los Angeles. He appears more open to it now. The Sox have the incentive of Valentine, who is perceived as the Japanese players’ friend.
I wonder where Cafardo is getting the Kuroda info after the Yankees beat shot it down. His reporting is usually reliable.
The Red Sox really are just the worst at spending money. It’s stunning how they always seem to screw up who they do and don’t give big money to.
This is my economic belief, so of course I believe it in baseball too, deficit spending. Right now the Red Sox need to spend to sure up their rotation if they want to stay competitive in the AL East. I’d say they have to commit some money on the right guy, not tighten their belt and risk missing the playoffs again.
Do they even have young pitching prospects left?
On Joba there has to be information that the Cash has that we still don’t know about.
It might be an increased injury risk as a starter (ala Papelbom) or maybe something else, because the facts as presented just don’t add up.
What does add up is Cash not showing all his cards when it comes to Joba. I believe that there has to be a good reason he’s in the pen (even if I don’t like it). It’s certainly not just some illogical bias towards Joba.
The Sox have the incentive of Valentine, who is perceived as the Japanese players’ friend.
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Correction: The Sox have the incentive of Valentine, who is perceived by the Boston media as every Japanese person’s friend.*
yankee21 December 11th, 2011 at 9:46 am
radiokev,
by re-signing Garcia and to this point anyway, retaining AJ, that leaves no spot open for any of Noesi, Warren, Phelps, Mitchell etc… given that, how is NY showing patience and trust in their MiL talent if they do not even give any of them a shot as a #5 starter. Especially if they bid hard on Darvish.
If NY jettisons AJ and opens up that slot to any of these guys then I will buy off on it, but to me Cashman has been nothing but a bunch of talk on patience and trust.
====================
Cashman has pretty clearly committed himself to giving the young pitchers a chance.
Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, and Nova have all been given chances to start. In addition, Cashman hasn’t made any big free agent signings since he brought in Sabathia and and Burnett. Moreover, he refused to part with any of his young pitchers (Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy, etc.) to get Santana.
Cashman obviously has modified his approach in working the youngsters into the rotation following the failed experiment of 2008, but he is still trying to get the youngsters into the rotation. Short-term free agent signings, like Freddy, are part of Cashman’s strategy to ensure the kids get their chances.
Of course a rotation does not remain stable for an entire season, and of course depth is a good thing.
If NY bids and wins the rights to Darvish and does not get rid of AJ, then that it has 6 starters. If Hughes or Nova has a crappy spring does that mean one of them goes back to AAA? There is no room in the BP so either one of them gets traded or one of them gets sent down (assuming they still have any remaining options). Then the parade of AAA starters and guys we have patience and trust in get the right to burn in AAA for another year.
I withhold judgement until Spring when the roster takes final shape but to this point Cashman to me is just alot of talk on his belief in the system.
If Noesi comes out of ST as the sixth man in the rotation (in Triple-A), it seems pretty clear to me that he will get a chance to help the big club at some point in 2012.
Cashman obviously has modified his approach in working the youngsters into the rotation following the failed experiment of 2008, but he is still trying to get the youngsters into the rotation.
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Yes, that was a failed strategy. Us fans were pumped up to see Joba/Hughes/Kennedy in the rotation, but it was a total bust. We shouldn’t rely so heavily on our rookies. Others team have to do it, but we’re the Yankees. We have enough money to employ the veterans as well.
These guys will get worked into the rotation as certain needs crop up. It’s unlikely all of them will because we have a surplus of young pitchers, a great problem to have.
I do think we have to cut Cashman and the organization some slack with Joba/Kennedy/Hughes, because they hadn’t developed pitchers in a very long time.
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Nope, can’t cut them any slack. This is a world class organization with unlimited resources. Should they have produced 3 aces of course not but the way they were handled was a joke. I
Against All Odds,
We sure as heck weren’t a world class farm system at that time. Now we’re close.
Against All Odds December 11th, 2011 at 10:02 am
I do think we have to cut Cashman and the organization some slack with Joba/Kennedy/Hughes, because they hadn’t developed pitchers in a very long time.
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Nope, can’t cut them any slack.
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That’s pretty harsh. Everybody makes mistakes. Cashman deserves a TON of credit for revamping and retooling the Yanks’ player acquisition and development program. If he hadn’t done the work that he has done in rebuilding the farm, the Yanks would be totally screwed right now with the new CBA. He was very prescient, and he doesn’t get enough cridet for it.
sp. credit
# RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 10:10 am
Against All Odds,
We sure as heck weren’t a world class farm system at that time. Now we’re close.
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True we weren’t but this is why their scouts and coaches get paid. You’re not going to hit every time but look at the first wave. Joba is a middle relief guy, Hughes is entering a make or break for the team, and Kennedy is excelling with another club.
News from Capitol Hill –
Republicans : NO to YU
Joba is a middle relief guy, Hughes is entering a make or break for the team, and Kennedy is excelling with another club.
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Kennedy is excelling in one of the least competitive divisions in baseball. Good for him. We still developed him, and we cashed in for Curtis Granderson.
Hughes is entering a make or break point for this team, but what’s wrong with that? Everyone eventually makes or breaks. I’d bet on the make.
Calling Joba a middle relief guy is a pretty negative view of his role. He was pitching quite well until he blew out his arm. David Robertson is a superior reliever, but he’s superior to all but a small handful of guys. And Soriano was an over the top signing, and he gets paid more, so the pecking order will probably cast Joba into the 7th inning. That still makes for an awfully strong bullpen, no shame being “middle relief” in that group.
Cashman has done a good job with the farm system no question although recent top picks such as Culver (#1 in 2010) and Bleich (supplemental round in 2008) Cole #1 in 2008 and Brackman #1 in 2007 have either been hurt, not signed, busted or not shown any real promise (Culver) yet.
Additionally, as many of the more astute followers have pointed out it seems as though NY has cut corners or budgets on MiL coaches which is resulting in getting players through the system that seem to be not grounded in basic fundamentals, particularly fielding.
Cashman has done a good but not a great job with the system and given NY resources I’d say that needs to further improve under his watch. The benchmarks appear to be either TB (especially with SP) and Texas.
Against All Odds December 11th, 2011 at 10:21 am
# RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 10:10 am
Against All Odds,
We sure as heck weren’t a world class farm system at that time. Now we’re close.
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True we weren’t but this is why their scouts and coaches get paid. You’re not going to hit every time but look at the first wave. Joba is a middle relief guy, Hughes is entering a make or break for the team, and Kennedy is excelling with another club.
===============
Kennedy was included in the trade to bring back our current centerfielder, who placed fourth in the 2011 MVP voting. How was Kennedy a failure?
No to Yu
# Ghostwriter December 11th, 2011 at 10:11 am
Against All Odds December 11th, 2011 at 10:02 am
I do think we have to cut Cashman and the organization some slack with Joba/Kennedy/Hughes, because they hadn’t developed pitchers in a very long time.
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Nope, can’t cut them any slack.
============
That’s pretty harsh. Everybody makes mistakes. Cashman deserves a TON of credit for revamping and retooling the Yanks’ player acquisition and development program. If he hadn’t done the work that he has done in rebuilding the farm, the Yanks would be totally screwed right now with the new CBA. He was very prescient, and he doesn’t get enough cridet for it.
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It’s not harsh because when things go right they take bows for it. When Wang came out of no where they were all smiles. When D Rob stepped up they received pats on their back.
He revamped the farm and gets credit for doing a very good job no one can deny that.
# Ghostwriter December 11th, 2011 at 10:27 am
Against All Odds December 11th, 2011 at 10:21 am
# RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 10:10 am
Against All Odds,
We sure as heck weren’t a world class farm system at that time. Now we’re close.
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True we weren’t but this is why their scouts and coaches get paid. You’re not going to hit every time but look at the first wave. Joba is a middle relief guy, Hughes is entering a make or break for the team, and Kennedy is excelling with another club.
===============
Kennedy was included in the trade to bring back our current centerfielder, who placed fourth in the 2011 MVP voting. How was Kennedy a failure?
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I don’t think Kennedy got a fair shot with the Yankees.
IPK wasn’t around long enough to get a fair shot with the Yankees. He was the cost to acquire Grandy, so even though IPK certainly seems like he is going to have a promising career, I’d still make that trade in a heartbeat.
# RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 10:25 am
Joba is a middle relief guy, Hughes is entering a make or break for the team, and Kennedy is excelling with another club.
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Kennedy is excelling in one of the least competitive divisions in baseball. Good for him. We still developed him, and we cashed in for Curtis Granderson.
Hughes is entering a make or break point for this team, but what’s wrong with that? Everyone eventually makes or breaks. I’d bet on the make.
Calling Joba a middle relief guy is a pretty negative view of his role. He was pitching quite well until he blew out his arm. David Robertson is a superior reliever, but he’s superior to all but a small handful of guys. And Soriano was an over the top signing, and he gets paid more, so the pecking order will probably cast Joba into the 7th inning. That still makes for an awfully strong bullpen, no shame being “middle relief” in that group.
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Kennedy’s success IMO is more tied to his development with the D backs than it is the Yankees.
I’ll wait and see in regards to Hughes.
No joba will be coming back from injury and we all know even when a pitcher comes back it takes a while to get in a groove. He won’t be placed in the 7th inning. The bullpen now stands Mo, Drob, Soriano, Logan, Wade, and probably Noesi. Joba finds his way in the 5th or 6th.
Cashman has all ready stated Noesi will not be in the pen this season.
It’s actually in this post.
Wandered over to the Philles website just for the heck of it, no one is talking about pitching over there. Over here there are better than a 1000 posts a day about pitching, wouldn’t it be a breath of fresh air if with all resources we have that our pitching staff didn’t consume so much debate.
# RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Cashman has all ready stated Noesi will not be in the pen this season.
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Cashman also said Joba wouldn’t stay a reliever going forward. Things can change: relievers get hurt starters get added.
I have no problem withholding judgement on Braun until his appeal is heard by MLB. But the fact he Knew he had failed a drug test when he accepted the NL MVP Award condems the Character of the man, whether he is innocent or not. He shoulda Temporarily declined accepting the MVP Award , proclaimed his innocense, and simply vacated the stage NOT answering ANY questions. He shoulda come clean with the public regarding the situation at that time, and Not participated in that Sham Acceptance Ceremony we witnessed. Ryan Braun as a Player, is a guy I have Always respected for the way he conducts himself on the field, and his accomplishments in the NL. But Ryan Braun as a Man, leaves much to be desired.
I’d be shocked if Braun was not guilty, we’ve seen this act so many times. It’s really disappointing.
DONNYBROOK December 11th, 2011 at 11:03 am
I have no problem withholding judgement on Braun until his appeal is heard by MLB. But the fact he Knew he had failed a drug test when he accepted the NL MVP Award condems the Character of the man, whether he is innocent or not. He shoulda Temporarily declined accepting the MVP Award , proclaimed his innocense, and simply vacated the stage NOT answering ANY questions. He shoulda come clean with the public regarding the situation at that time, and Not participated in that Sham Acceptance Ceremony we witnessed. Ryan Braun as a Player, is a guy I have Always respected for the way he conducts himself on the field, and his accomplishments in the NL. But Ryan Braun as a Man, leaves much to be desired.
____________________________________________________________________________
Lets see what happens, I want to hear more about the specifics. Right now there is just alot of unconfirmed stuff out there.
Given the clamps that are placed on anybody that is accused by the legal staff that it woun’t be anytime soon to hear from his. He did want to hold a press conference.
To me it’s was there any issues with the test process? Were both parts of the sample tested positive? Was the PED detected syntetic (man made) in the sample? If the answers to those questions go towards quilt I don’t care what he says, he cheated and he got caught.
Where is the media outrage at Braun and condemnation of him? It seemed as though Arod was treated as the re-incarnation of Hitler the way he was put through the grinder when he was found out. At least Arod came clean.
By the way, Little Papi, we are still waiting for you to come back to us on your reasons why you are clean and the tests were inaccurate, after all we are stupid and naive and believe everything you say too.
I hope they would take away his [Braun's] MVP award immediately .
Where’s that Occupy Miller Park movement ?
Red Robin December 11th, 2011 at 11:18 am
I hope they would take away his [Braun's] MVP award immediately .
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I agree that would be appropriate after they complete the appeal process. Right now the situation needs to just flush out over time to get the right facts and story out there.
The player wants to defend himself right now, I think that’s the right thing to do going forward. Give him his chance before we all already convict him.
yankee21 December 11th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Where is the media outrage at Braun and condemnation of him? It
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Steroid fatigue
Yankee21,
Confirmation bias. People hate A-Rod and love to find reasons to hate A-Rod.
We like to keep the world simple. It’s harder to resolve a complex issue in our minds. Braun seems like a good guy, but now he’s a cheater. What do you do with that if you were a fan?
I think any given fan’s view of their teams reflects on their own character. You see fans everywhere forgive and forget rather quickly when guys are scumbags who can perform. Look at Roethlisberger and Vick, look at the spygate Pats, look at Ortiz.
I know Pettitte doesn’t deserve too much credit for coming clean about his steroid use after being caught, but sadly very few athletes do that much.
Braun is innocent – his 2nd negative test confirms that. The first test was obviously false.
So where did the high levels of exogenous testosterone come from, the planet Mars?
Yank 97,
Both tests conducted on the first sample were positive. We don’t know when the second blood was collected, what was discovered or how long it stays in one’s system. One can hardly conclude he is innocent without such information.
I agree that would be appropriate after they complete the appeal process
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Taking away Braun’s MVP would be beyond ridiculous.
The 2nd test was taken ? months after the first .
- Yanks 97 -
I’m certainly gonna give Braun his day in court, but Braun’s passing that 2nd test, is like blowing a 2.0 into a breathalizer and 2 days later passing the same test. Braun’s 2nd test means almost Nothing. By-the-by, the testosterone was found to be synthetic.
But the fact he Knew he had failed a drug test when he accepted the NL MVP Award condems the Character of the man, whether he is innocent or not
=======================================
So do we similarly condemn A. Rodriguez for accepting his MVP in 2003?
A-Rod has been and continues-to-be condemned for his steroid use. Where you been?
A-Rod has been and continues-to-be condemned for his steroid use. Where you been?
=================================
Was speaking solely as it relates to that MVP award in ’03.
Where is the media outrage at Braun and condemnation of him?
=================================
Timing of this leak was certainly fortuitous for Braun. Saturday night ahead of an NFL Sunday, lot of craziness/bufoonery involving NBA, couple of high profile upsets in college hoops, Heisman, Pujols, etc. Also doesn’t involve a New York or other high profile team.
I do think that had the announcement been made during spring training or near Opening Day, it’d get a lot more play.
- DOGFACE -
Absolutely. ANY player Failing a drug test should be Permanently Omitted from the HOF Ballot. ALL players on the list that included A-Rod and Ortiz should be omitted, and that list Will eventually come out. In order to maintain credibility in the sport, you gotta Slam offenders hard. For the same reason I would Keep Rose outta the HOF.
I don’t believe in all of the Hall of Fame crud myself. Plenty of horrible people and cheaters are in there all ready. I didn’t know the Hall of Fame was competing with the Noble Peace Prize. Let the greats in.
“Absolutely. ANY player Failing a drug test should be Permanently Omitted from the HOF Ballot.”
If you time warped Mantle, Aaron, and Mays into todays game they all three would likely fail a drug test because they all likely used Amphetamines.
“ANY player Failing a drug test should be Permanently Omitted from the HOF Ballot.”
You do realize that the overwhelming vast majority of steroid users did so BEFORE there was testing ( or a coherent testing policy ) in place. Did Alex actually fail an admissible drug test, or is his admission enough to qualify him for a “permanent ban”? How about Andy, did he fail a test? Palmeiro? McGwire?
I would go so far as to say MLB encouraged Steroid use by the way they handled the whole Sosa-McGwire HR chase.
@ Kev I agree completely.
Double standards exist folks – accept it.
For one person, excuses are accepted. For another, excuses are rejected.
Same excuses – different person.