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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The difference between interested and and self-interested

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 11, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It’s a slow, cold Sunday in early December. Seems like a good day to pass along a random story Brian Cashman told last week in Dallas.

I believe it was after Mark Buehrle signed with the Marlins that Cashman was asked whether he can tell — when a free agent approaches the Yankees — whether that player is sincerely interested in playing in the Bronx or simply trying to drive up his own value.

“I guess it depends,” Cashman said. “Sometimes that answer is yes. Sometimes that answer is no, and you have to go through the process.

“I do think that we have a pretty strong pro scouting department. Our scouts know a lot of these players individually, live near them or around them or played with them or what have you. We get pretty good information. There are certain guys currently in this free agent market who I know have no interest in playing in New York because they flat out told our personnel sometime in the summer. Now they probably wish they didn’t, but that’s good information to know.

“When we start going through our pro scouting meetings, we’ll start going through the player and (a scout will say) ‘This guy does not want to play here. He told me this in this city and he says he’d never play there, doesn’t want to play there.’ Ok, let’s move on. We don’t even cover him any further than that.”

As an example, here’s the story Cashman told:

“I won’t tell you the name, but there was a guy that was on vacation, and there happened to be a Yankee fan that we knew that was on vacation with him in Mexico,” he said. “All he did was badmouth this place, but I can’t tell you how many times he called trying to get a job here when things didn’t go well in free agency for him, and he was desperate to come here, (saying) ‘Oh, I want to be a Yankee.’

“And I wouldn’t even take the call. I was like, you’re so full of it. I even told his agent, ‘Look, tell your client, our people were right there with him drinking those pina coladas when he was badmouthing us. He doesn’t want to play here. He just wants our money.”

Associated Press photo

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553 Responses to “The difference between interested and and self-interested”

  1. raymagnetic December 11th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Aceves?

  2. yankee21 December 11th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    A very important post Chad. Some of you may remember how much a guy like Roy Oswalt bad-mouthed NY several years back when Clemens was going through all his crap.

    Good to keep notes. It is also interesting on CJ Wilson, he looked as though he was trying to use NY to hike up his price, I think it was clear on how things played out that Cashman viewed CJ as a guy who is looking to leverage NY or to become a part of this great tradition.

    Only experience and a wide network of confidants will help a GM discern between the two.

  3. Giuseppe Franco December 11th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Very interesting stuff, Chad.

  4. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    ‘Look, tell your client, our people were right there with him drinking those pina coladas when he was badmouthing us

    ———-

    Hilarious. In the last 12 months Cashman has really become one of the more entertaining front office types in sports.

  5. MaineYankee December 11th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    That story should show that we can think we know why the Yankees make the decisions they do, when in reality we can only guess.

    There has been alot of talk here lately about how certain players have been handled when in reality we have no clue.

  6. RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Ortiz? :D

  7. pudinhand December 11th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    So did Curt Schilling ever get another gig?

  8. MaineYankee December 11th, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    LGY

    It may be that he is comfortable in his position so we are seeing his real personality.

    I suspect he has been that blunt with people within baseball in the past.

  9. Red Robin December 11th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    Hey Cashman ,

    Less Yelping .

    More Doing .

  10. m December 11th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Fun post, Chad.

    As for CJ Wilson, I think there was genuine interest. On the day he signs with Los Angeles, the Str8 Angle says that he was surprised the Yankees weren’t in the market, and hey, “who wouldn’t want to be a Yankee?”

    The Yankees just didn’t want to sign another large FA pitching contract this winter.

  11. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Red Robin you are about as dumb as a rock.

  12. Red Robin December 11th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Now you all watch for that precipitous drop in all Braun’s numbers next season .

    There’s your indicator that he has been using all these years .

  13. RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/.....05518.html

  14. m December 11th, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    *Genuine interest in the Yankees by Wilson.

  15. m December 11th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    RadioKev,

    Remember (2010?) when Ortiz was having a horrible season? Then the news came out about steroids and then Weiner and him at the press conference? Then wow, Ortiz had a great second half. Then he had a great 2011.

    Now, I’m not saying that Ortiz has been using, BUT, I think he knew the news was going to leak out and it was weighing on him.

    But I think that Oritz is guilty of something. I just know it. :P

  16. 108 stitches December 11th, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    I don’t doubt anything that Cashman said. He puts trust and reliance on his pro scouting staff. A player could have decent numbers but character issues and Cashman won’t take him.

  17. vinny-b December 11th, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    i think the above player may have been Manny Ramirez.

  18. Chase December 11th, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Gotta love how people are saying “He’s innocent until proven guilty!” and “We don’t know the facts so let’s wait before rushing to judgement.”

    Where was all of that when the leak came out about the over 100 players who failed the 2003 test and ONLY Alex Rodriguez’s name was released.

    Everyone crucified him before the first 24 hrs were over.

  19. Trigeminal Neuralgia Yank December 11th, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    If we get darvish
    What do we do w
    Cc
    Aj
    Hughes
    Noesi
    Nova
    Garcia
    7 man rotation?

  20. kd December 11th, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    sounds like manny, could be schilling, bonds?

  21. kd December 11th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    chase,

    manny, big papi, and sosa were on that list as well and were leaked.

    they should just publish the names now. most of those guys are retired

  22. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    I wouldn’t be shocked to learn of new PED’s that are out there that aren’t easily detected. It is a big enough business for the drug companies to look into things that would help enhance performance, and with the big bucks players of the various sports can make, it is far too tempting for them to pass up the millions of extra dollars they can make from using something that is currently not easy to detect.

    The Braun case just brings this out. He had elevated levels of testosterone, higher testosterone is a PED, despite what is now being talked about on the MLB radio. There is a product on the market now that talks about how your testosterone levels drop each year after you hit around 30. Braun conducting his own test is also a bit shady, as his sample could be doctored in a number of ways, including it not even being from him.

    The blood testing will be a better means to test these players, and frankly, samples should be kept for every player so that later tests could be done once new tests become available.

    If a player can use and boost their income by 50 million dollars, even a suspension of 50 games can be viewed as worth it. While there are probably a number of players who do not use anything, there are going to be players who will try anything to boost their performances by any means they can. The drug testing just helps keep the reluctant players more honest. Just like locks are meant to keep more honest people out, those who will use aren’t going to be stopped, just the methods used will be altered.

    There is no telling what these guys could do during the off season either. No reason why they couldn’t do a cycle during the off season and have enough time to be “clean” by ST.

    I don’t trust any player that suddenly “figures it out”. It’s different if they were good players that improve or get over injuries, from someone who say never hit more than 15 HR in a season going to 45 or 50 in a season. If they had that kind of talent it would have shown more gradually than a sudden jump.

    I think huge fines should accompany any PED positive test along with a longer ban. Let them lose some of the big bucks they would have made, let that money be used to finance more testing for PED use. Till it really impacts their earnings in a big way, players will use.

  23. UpState December 11th, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Great post, Chad !
    Someday – Cashman is going to write one damn interesting book for us !!!

  24. m December 11th, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Yogi,

    Great post. The rewards definitely outweigh the risks:

    As word of Braun’s positive test breaks Saturday, there are some executives who think the risk-reward equation is still incredibly one-sided. Ramirez has been busted twice, having made tens of millions of dollars over the past five years, and he was reinstated Friday by Major League Baseball.

    If Braun serves a 50-game suspension next season, he will resume being paid under the terms of his $150 million contract that runs through 2020.

    “Does crime pay?” one executive asked Saturday night. “Absolutely.”

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_.....ly-bad-mlb

  25. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    The cheats are always one step ahead.

  26. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Maybe all the Rays and Sox take discounts because they’re just trying to cash in before getting caught juicing :???:

  27. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    The Manny Ramirez case really frosts me. I don’t care that he “served” a suspension by losing out on a whole season. He did that voluntarily, he chose to retire rather than go through a 100 game suspension. For him to be only subject to a 50 game suspension now cheapens the punishment.

    M, I wouldn’t have a problem if MLB even allowed those who want to use PED’s to use them, provided they were done under medical staff and it was public knowledge that these players are using PED’s. I would say that their salary should have a hard cap on them though. Between both public knowledge and salary cap the PED use would probably come down.

    Either that or put a more strict punishment in place, say a full 162 game suspension with no pay, voiding their current contract for the first infraction and the second positive test they are out of the game. Those who have been caught using would also be subject to monthly testing for a period of years, even in the off season.

    Manny getting off lighter just made a mockery of their system. I hope Manny can’t find a position with any club, but that is probably too much to hope for. Some club will probably sign him and he paves the way for others who use to get lighter punishment.

  28. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    George Brett won 2 of the 4 longest drive holes…….Simply crushes the ball….

  29. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    The new HGH tests require blood samples next season, each player will have a blood sample taken before the season but then it will stop during the season and resume.

    The owners and the players will then decide whether to do in-season testing in 2013.

    Without routine blood testing before, during and after the seaswon it is difficult to catch the cheats. Imo anyway.

  30. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    I meant to write the HGH Blood testing will resume after the 2012 season has completed.

  31. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    The cheaters will keep using till the punishment makes it such that it doesn’t pay to use and chance being caught.

    We still see Minor League players being caught using, and their testing is a lot more strict than the Majors have. It has to come down to removing incentive for those caught using. If they lose any financial gains their use brought them it might be enough to curtail the use of the drugs.

  32. m December 11th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    The blood test is just for HGH? They will still do the urine test for steroids, no?

  33. Tar December 11th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    “If they lose any financial gains their use brought them it might be enough to curtail the use of the drugs.”

    What about MLB itself? What financial gains have they made from players using steroids?

    Maybe the league should fine itself anytime a player is caught using. I bet that would increase the penalties for being caught.

    I guess I’m still having a hard time getting over the whole McGwire-Sosa charade. :wink:

  34. MaineYankee December 11th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Yogi Mantle

    I knew someone that lost their liscense for 4 yrs for OUI.

    They had it back 1 month and got stopped again.

    For some of us the loss of the ability to drive would be enough.

    Not so for many others.

  35. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    m

    Peds show up in the urine tests which will continue. HGH only revealed with blood samples.

  36. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    i immediately thought of manny when i read this…

  37. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    Darvish striking out foos and mixing in some Joba fist pump action.

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?d.....#038;gl=US

  38. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    The public embarrassment of being caught in my mind is enough of a deterent.

    Why routine testing would pretty much eliminate this crap.

  39. RhapsodyInBlue December 11th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Manny was caught some sort of a female fertility drug in his system but Ramirez’s case was set off when a test in spring training revealed he had elevated levels of testosterone in his body.

    Kind of like Braun.

  40. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    as the reigning mvp and a guy who was always looked on favorably by the public, braun was in a position to really clean up in endorsements this season and thats all out the window if he’s found to have used PED’s. So even if he’s not fined by the league, he’s going to lose millions, plus his good name, plus, he’s going to have a tough time winning any more postseason awards, plus any chance to make the HOF is in danger. That’s pretty damaging right there.

  41. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 11th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....e-1.989890

    Karma is sure a witch. Too bad the whole team ends up paying for it.

  42. m December 11th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    On the phone conversation he had with Josh Beckett, who was angry over comments Valentine made about the lengthy delays in his delivery when he was an ESPN broadcaster: “He told me not to talk about the conversation so I’m not going to talk about the conversation. But I’ll talk about the length of the conversation. It was 20 minutes maybe a little more. But the first two sentences were, `Oh, by the way, I was really pissed off at what you said,’ and I said, `Let’s get that out of the way,’ and I said, `OK, that’s out of the way,’ and we talked about everything else. That was kind of the extent for his dislike of what I said.

    “I’ll say this, because it’s apropos and he won’t mind, he felt at the time, and probably correctly so, he was dominating the Yankees. I mean he was totally dominating them when he pitched and one of the things that was mentioned from across the field [at Yankees Stadium] was mentioned by Kevin Long, according to him. I didn’t remember this as an ESPN announcer, but Kevin Long started complaining about him talking too long. And he felt, well, why don’t I take long and if they don’t like it, then that’s exactly what I want to do. Whatever they don’t like, and what makes them uncomfortable, makes them unsuccessful. And we at ESPN fell into the Kevin Long strategy of trying to reverse his success.

    “So I get it. Maybe I did. That’s where it was a frenzy and it led to watching the game and I had read or heard what Kevin had said and I was reiterating it.”

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....tra_bases/
    _________________________________________________________________

    This is a pretty confusing portion of Bobby V’s comments. Not sure why Beckett was upset at Bobby V and what K. Long had to do with it.

    If Beckett knows that his taking more than the allotted time is bothering the Yankees, he’s going to do it. Clear and blatant right there. What do the rules say? And is there any penalty?

  43. m December 11th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Sorry, not a penalty after the fact.

    Like during the game. I thought that the umps could issue a ball if they take to long after ignoring a warning or something.

  44. blake December 11th, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports advises the Red Sox to blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that’s what it takes to field a World Series contender.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    Isn’t it interesting how the Yankees are killing the game with their payroll but the Red Sox are encouraged to continue upwards with theirs in the name if winning……

  45. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    where did rosenthal ever say the yankees were killing the game with their payroll?

  46. Frozen Rope December 11th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Could it have been barry bonds in cashman’s story?

  47. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    i thought of manny first, but bonds did spend alot of his off time in mexico as i recall…

  48. m December 11th, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    Jimmie Johnson, Erin Andrews, and Chad Moeller. Random peoplethat Joba tweeted to.

    Did anyone see the tiled background pic on Joba’s account? It’s Karter with his daddy’s WS bling. So cute.

  49. RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    blake December 11th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
    Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports advises the Red Sox to blow past the luxury tax threshold, if that’s what it takes to field a World Series contender.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    Isn’t it interesting how the Yankees are killing the game with their payroll but the Red Sox are encouraged to continue upwards with theirs in the name if winning……
    ————

    I actually argued the same idea for the Sox earlier this morning. They’d be foolish to tighten their budget now, they’d give away the AL East to the Yankees and Rays.

    They’ve got to spend the money on the right guys and deal with the luxury tax. However, the Red Sox are infamously bad now when it comes to choosing the guys they should spend on.

  50. austinmac December 11th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Blake,

    I read that same Rosenthal quote and had the same thought. I can safely say no national writer has ever said the Yankees should spend more money.quite the opposite.

    I would like Cashman to follow that advice.:)

  51. blake December 11th, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    ‘where did rosenthal ever say the yankees were killing the game with their payroll?”

    he didn’t….but can you ever imagine an article being written to suggest the Yankees spend more money?

    Point was that all you ever hear is the “Yankees buy championships”….it’s been that way forever. You never heard a word when the Red Sox went on their spending spree last winter and you wont hear anything about the Angels this year either…

    by the way…..go Cashman! he’s like Santa….you better be good (and not badmouth the Yankees) because Cash is watching you….he’s everywhere he’s everywhere.

  52. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    the sox missed the PS by one game in a season when they had a ton of injuries. they wont be carrying the dead weight of veritek and wakefield again next year. Things aren’t as bad as people are saying, they have a very good team that needs some tweaking,thats all.

  53. blake December 11th, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    The Sox should go over the tax limit and get what they need….but then they wouldn’t be the little engines that could anymore :(

    They are going to have a tougher time staying under that 189 limit in a couple of years and staying competitive than the Yankees are……the Phillies might as well. I’m not saying they can’t stay under….I’m saying that they are likely going to have to leave gaping holes in areas to do so.

  54. bardos December 11th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    I believe I recall that when the A-Rod steroid scandal broke, there were many stories in the media about the Yankees investigating ways to void his contract. (may have been true or false, How can I know?)

    I wonder if anything similar will surface with this latest scandal vis-a-vis Braun and the Brewers.

  55. blake December 11th, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    No the Red Sox aren’t as bad as many folks are making out….they have a lot of talent on that team…..but they also have some serious holes that they either are going to have to ignore or increase their payroll to fill….

    Also, the injuries they’ve had are more a trend than some fluke one year thing…..they have a lot of injury risk and history on their roster and it’s a big weakness for them that’s showed up the last 2 seasons.

  56. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    this braun thing hit the news yesterday and hasnt even been confirmed by mlb yet. Also, Braun’s salary under his current contract isnt even half what arod is getting and is actually a very good contract for the team, the extention is only for 5 years/ $105M. Even if the Brewers were disposed to try to void the contract, then after he is suspended, they might start looking into that option, then it might take a day or two before it leaks to the press. Take a breath, please…

  57. RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
    the sox missed the PS by one game in a season when they had a ton of injuries. they wont be carrying the dead weight of veritek and wakefield again next year. Things aren’t as bad as people are saying, they have a very good team that needs some tweaking,thats all.
    ———-

    Nope, they’re still as bad as last year. All of that team’s issues just manifested themselves in the last month. Their rotation is highly questionable. Now they don’t have a closer to boot.

    There issue was one of depth last season, aren’t they’re certainly not any deeper right now.

  58. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    as bad as last year was only 1 game out of the PS! One game over a 162 game schedule is a 0.6% difference. One grounder going past an infielder instead of being scooped up could have put them into the PS tourney. They have holes, we have holes, the cardinals have holes, the phillies have holes.

  59. RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    They missed the playoffs by one game, but who cares if they made it or not? They probably would have been swept out of the playoffs.

  60. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    or they would be wearing another ring, you cant tell. they are a very good team with a ton of talend and some bare spots, just like us. I think we’re better but this idea that they are flawed and have to make huge changes is nuts.

  61. blake December 11th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    The Sox have no 4th and 5th starter…..and losing Papelbum really hurts their pen. The problem is that the Sox weakness is pitching depth…..they have none in the rotation and they have none in the bullpen…..neither at the big league level or in the upper levels of the minors.

    It’s a big weakness over 162 games and they are strongly reliant on that front 3 now……even moreso than last year unless they make some moves. Not saying they cant be a good team……they just don’t have much margin for error as it stands now.

  62. blake December 11th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    The Yankees have 8 or 9 guys in their organization that could pitch in the big league rotation…..maybe more. Right now thats the biggest difference between them and the Red Sox.

    Hector Noesi would be their 4th starter without question if they had him……

  63. RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    I was a skeptic from the start about that Red Sox team, they just didn’t have the pitching. And by the end of it, they just didn’t have the pitching. It showed.

    There was no way they’d win the World Series last year. You could debate if they would get swept or not, but it’s laughable to suggest anything could have happened. They were really really bad.

    And there holes don’t compare to ours. At least we have a legitimate right fielder. At least we have all of our starters. At least we have a closer. They literally don’t have personnel right now.

  64. blake December 11th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Yankees
    @YankeeSource
    There’s a strong feeling by many Lions players that Nakajima is MLB bound. Talked to two of them and they say there won’t be a hold up.

  65. blake December 11th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Jon Heyman
    @Jon_Heyman
    person close to kuroda says hed consider yankees and a few others. at traded deadline, wouldn’t leave la. japan another option.

  66. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Josh Norris’ probable Trenton 24 man roster for 2012.

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....-2012.html

  67. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    how much good will a 36 y/o pitcher with a sub- .500 record in the nl west do for the yankees? Seems like he’d just be taking a spot from a developing pitcher who could probably do as well, and at a much higher price…

  68. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    actually he’ll be 37 next year

  69. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    KURODA!

  70. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Kuroda would be the second best pitcher on the current Yankee staff.

  71. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    thats what they said about burnett.

  72. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    and pavano

  73. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    and contreras

  74. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Except Kuroda is actually good unlike Burnett who had like 5 good games against the Yankees and Sox in 08.

  75. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Ys Guy, why do you think the Yankees have expressed interest in Kuroda, provided you believe they actually have?

  76. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    41-46 in the nl west, is that really that good? isnt he just another freddy garcia with a much bigger price tag?

  77. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Judging a pitcher on his W-L record? Dude…

  78. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    no i dont think the yankees have any real interest in him, especially at $10M+, but people on here keep bringing it up. He might have been a guy to pick up at the trade deadline last season, and could even be a trade deadline-type guy later this year if they need an arm, but i dont see the yankees signing him and plugging up the roster with another mediocre pitcher making way too much money.

  79. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    ok, lets talk about his salary, $11M last year, or his PS era of over 5 in the national league, or his age, 37…

  80. blake December 11th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Kuroda is pretty good…..the age is a little concerning but there hasn’t been any real sign of a falloff in velocity etc……unless NY zapped his stuff like it did Javy then I think he’d be a nice addition on a one year deal…..

  81. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Do you think the rumors of Yankee interest are just made up?

    Or maybe leaks from the Yanks to mask interest in someone else?

    Leaks from Kuroda camp for some other reason?

  82. m December 11th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    The thing with A-rod is that he was the first really big name to be outed. He’s a Yankee. Highest paid player in the game. It was shocking because he had always been a phenomenal athlete.

    Since then, McGwire has kinda sorta without saying anything admitted it. Manny (twice). Ortiz (sorta). And now Braun.

    Sad to say, but people are getting increasingly desensitized to the issue. Nothing surprises anyone. It’s the opposite. People are wondering how players are getting away with it. Yeah, I’m looking at you Joey Bats.

  83. blake December 11th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    They are now saying apparently that whatever Braun tested positive for wasn’t a PED.

  84. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    i dont think the guy’s bad, i just dont think the yankees are gonna pony up that much money this offseason. I think they’d prefer to give noesi or someone like a colon/garcia ST invite to fill out the staff before committing that kind of money to kuroda. If nothing else works out by the trade deadline next year, guys like him will be available for the stretch run.

  85. blake December 11th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    There is a good article at RAB about Cano and whether they should try to lock him up now in light of the Jose Reyes contract…….I say absolutely…..especially since he will be a FA right about the time this new soft cap goes into effect.

    If the Yankees are going to operate within set payroll parameters then they need to think about where they can save money and try to make it happen…..contracts aren’t going to get any cheaper and Cano is going to cost a fortune in two years barring injury……the Yankees in the past could wait the two years out and take the injury risk part out of the equation and just pay up in free agency if they wanted to keep the player…….with their self imposed payroll restrictions and the future tax implications they should bend that rule for special cases……and Cano is one of those cases IMO.

  86. blake December 11th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Also getting Cano signed to extension now would give them more information to plan their budget in the coming years…..they wouldn’t have to guess what it will cost to retain him and then find out too late that it’ll cost more than they have to stay under 189

  87. Jerkface December 11th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Kuroda throws hard, doesnt walk guys, strikes guys out, and doesnt give up HRs. Whats not to like?

  88. Jerkface December 11th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Heck 5 of his losses last year he gave up 2 or 1 run???? Better blame Kuroda!

  89. m December 11th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    The fact that he’s 37?

    I kid, I kid.

  90. blake December 11th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    Kuroda will give Yu a buddy also ;)

  91. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    •Kubatko’s colleague Pete Kerzel writes that the Nationals could non-tender Jesus Flores, Doug Slaten, and Tom Gorzelanny before tomorrow night’s deadline.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Staten and/or Gorzelanny could be interesting or useful pick-ups for somebody if this happens.

  92. m December 11th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....e-1.990020

    Braun’s lawyer, David Cornwell, also said that the positive test was not the result of taking a performance-enhancing drug. (grain of salt)

    A source says Braun’s levels were “insanely high, the highest ever for anyone who has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken,”

    That’s going to be part of their defense apparently.

  93. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    ***slaten***

  94. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    i think the yankees and the socks are gonna back off on darvish, and put in low 30′s bids, once bitten, twice shy. I think some team like the Nationals or Marlins will outbid them but it wouldn’t shock me to see someone like that win the bid then not sign him.

    The fish are going all out trying to sell tickets, but hedging their bets by not offering ntc’s. They got a ton of pub by going after pujols with an offer he was never going to take, and it cost them nothing. winning the yu bid, then not reaching an agreement with him would fit that mold.
    The Nats on the other hand could be building a future powerhouse and still seem to have money to offer around and might go all-in on Yu.
    Just my 2 cents worth.

  95. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Yu could help the Nats build a powerhouse?

  96. Nilsson December 11th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    There’s always a chance that drug or clinical testing can give a wrong result. But after MLB tested Braun, they followed it up with another test. This time by World Anti-Doping Agency. And they confirmed it.

    The odds of getting consecutive false positives starts to drop in a hurry. Braun will get a hearing, but it’s gonna be really tough to escape the evidence.

  97. Red Robin December 11th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    ” Ramon Santiago has agreed to a $4.2 million, two-year contract to remain with the Detroit Tigers. ”

    Awful news for our Yankees .

    :(

  98. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Why not build a Yankee powerhouse with Yu?

  99. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    The Yankees need to corner the Japanese market. Kuroda, Yu, and Nakajima will suffice.

  100. Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Japan Revenue!

  101. blake December 11th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Dropping 50 million up front might not be something the Marlins can do……I’m not sure the Rangers would be wild about that idea either…..if the Yanks go there then I think they’ll get the bid barring somebody like the Nats throwing a crazy number out there ( and they could ). It’ll be interesting to see how it goes down.

  102. Gary December 11th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Looks like Greg Jennings just got a pretty serious injury.

  103. Giuseppe Franco December 11th, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    It wouldn’t shock me at all to see the Rangers drop that kind of cheddar upfront because they seem to be in on almost every big name the last couple of years.

    Funny how that happens when they couldn’t even pay their electric bill less than two years ago.

  104. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    ok, i gotta get down and tebow…

  105. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    blake, $50 mil IS crazy and i dont see the yankees doing it.

  106. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    It sounds so crazy that it just might work!

  107. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    i think the winning bid will be $40M or less. Dice K wasnt worth anywhere near $100M and i think teams assume that Yu’s salary is going to have to be more than Dice K’s so when you add in the fee, it becomes too expensive. Other than the Red Sock’s bid on Dice K, it seems that nobody’s ever bid above about $33M on a japanese player. I really can’t see anyone going for more than around $85- $90M total for him. jmo.

  108. yankee21 December 11th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    We really don’t know for sure how big league teams are evaluating Yu. If he is viewed as a top of the rotation type then I can easily see the bid approach $50 mil.

  109. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    In the “more coverage about the Yankees” section of this site, which is tweets, I had to go 19 tweets deep before I found one about the Yankees. And it was the tweet announcing this very thread. #footballis#1

  110. austinmac December 11th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Kuroda has succeeded in the US with far less dominating stats in Japan. In fact, except for one year they were relatively similar to his Dodger stats. Japanese baseball is pretty good.

  111. Yankee Trader December 11th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Matsusaka got a 6 year contract for 60M, 8 M of which was in incentives, which he won’t reach. Look at the perks:

    perks: physical therapist, massage therapist, interpreter, 8 first-class round-trip airline tickets per year between Boston & Japan, spring training housing allowance of up to $25,000, Boston housing allowance of up to $75,000, one-time moving allowance of up to $35,000, use of Lincoln Town Car or similar car, Red Sox player ticket package, including 2 field box seats, team employee to assist Japanese media, uniform No. 18

    Newsday: posting fee that could go as high as US$50M, total of about US$100M.
    ?New York Times: posting fee of at least US$30M.
    Wall Street Journal: posting fee of between US$25M-35M, total of around US$80M-100M.

    Yu Darvish will be looking for 6/60M, no less.

  112. blake December 11th, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    “blake, $50 mil IS crazy and i dont see the yankees doing it.”

    Yea its a lot of money……and its a lot at one time…..it really just depends on their eval of him and how much Hal is willing to gamble……there obviously would be a marketing side to this as well…..if their financial planning folks think that they’ll get that 50 million + back over the life of the contract in increased revenue then it doesn’t sound so bad…..

  113. Gary December 11th, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    Go Giants

  114. Yankee Trader December 11th, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Sports Hochi figures six clubs will ultimately bid on Darvish (no particular order): the New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, Texas Rangers, Toronto Blue Jays, Florida Marlins, and the Washington Nationals.
    Nikkan Sports thinks five clubs, in the following order: New York Yankees, Texas Rangers, Toronto Blue Jays, Boston Red Sox, LA Angels.

    Angels are probably out.
    Red Sox are close to luxury tax ceiling of 178M
    Marlins-already mortgaging their future with their reliance on selling out the new stadium
    Blue Jays-supposedly have $$$ as do the Nationals, but big bidders?
    Rangers-might look to sign Fielder, trade Moreland and others from their strong minor league system for a starter-?Garza.

  115. Yankee Trader December 11th, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    I guess whatever the winning bid is we won’t know until this coming Wednesday after 5PM EST.

    Now that Darvish has been posted, teams will have until 4:00pm CST on December 14th (four business days) to submit bids, tweets Buster Olney.

    Then it’s up to another 4 business days for the Ham Fighters to agree or not.

  116. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Bids will not be accepted in Canadian dollars. :mad:

  117. blake December 11th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    It’ll probably be next weekend or later before we know who won the bid because MLB doesn’t tell the Ham Fighters who the winner is……only how much…..and they have 4 days to decide

  118. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    YT, the winner doesnt have to sign the guy, the fish could win the bid then make a half-hearted effort to sign him, get all that pub, sell tickets and not be out one cent. like they did with pujols….

    so the nytimes and murdoch’s WSJ both think the bid will be under $40M. thats what i predict, too

  119. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    GO GIANTS!!!

  120. Yankee Trader December 11th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Things that can cause increased testosterone levels other than injectable testosterone:

    Excessive exercise can cause elevated testosterone levels. Increased physical activity will raise testosterone levels.

    Levels of testosterone fluctuate naturally, but improper diet can increase testosterone levels. Oysters and red meat and poultry increase levels of testosterone. Increased intake of these foods will cause a noticeable increase in testosterone.

    Genetics play a significant role in the testosterone levels of individual men. Some men have naturally higher testosterone levels, and this can be determined by a series of monitoring tests conducted over several months.

    Zinc has been linked to increased testosterone levels. Eating foods high in zinc can result in an increase in testosterone. Some dairy products, such as yogurt and cottage cheese are high in zinc. A person would have to eat a great deal of these foods to increase testosterone levels significantly.

  121. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    you should tell that to the people doing the ped testing, im sure they never took any of that into consideration!

  122. Yankee Trader December 11th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Ys Guy-

    Whatever the winning bid is, unless Yu Darvish gets a contract near what Matsusaka got in total dollars $60M, I don’t see him signing. Maybe the winning bid will be one cent more than what was paid out for Matsusaka.

    $51,111,111.11 :)

  123. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    any insight into what would cause your testosterone level to be twice as high as they’ve ever seen before?

  124. m December 11th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    I doubt those would inject synthetic testosterone into a human’s system.

  125. Yankee Trader December 11th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Gotta go grab dinner and then watch the final episode of Boardwalk Empire.

    Have a great night all.

  126. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Yankee Trader December 11th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
    Things that can cause increased testosterone levels other than injectable testosterone:

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    The 2nd test showed that the substance was introduced from outside of the body. It wasn’t a natural occurance, according to the testers.

  127. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    If the Yanks do sign Kuroda, it’s a good move…..He’ll be here for only season most likely unless he’s pushing for 2 with an opt after the first season……Compared to how we felt about a year ago when they signed Garcia and Colon……I still the Yanks see Garcia as a 6th and long bman by summer……..Besides Kuroda is good, doesn’t hurt himself , can punch out guys when needed for the most part…….Veteran guy with more up side than Garcia I feel…..

  128. BD (Boston Dave) December 11th, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    “Also getting Cano signed to extension now would give them more information to plan their budget”

    —————

    you do know who Cano’s agent is, right?

    They could sign him now but I don’t think they’d be getting any kind of discount.

    I don’t disagree with you – sign the guy… but I don’t see it happening because of Boras and the likelihood that he’ll want a monster deal.

  129. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    Pat, I don’t know whether signing either Kuroda or Darvish will be good moves, but, I do feel that they are unnecessary. I’d rather that the Yanks go after both Cespedes and Soler for the outfield help for the near and far future.

  130. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    If Cano stays, he’ll be Jeter’s heir as “The Face Of The Franchise”.

  131. blake December 11th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    you do know who Cano’s agent is, right?

    They could sign him now but I don’t think they’d be getting any kind of discount.”

    Hes Weavers agent also……you wouldn’t be getting a steep discount in dollars per year most likely but my hope would be to reduce the total years……for example I’d rather try a 6 year extension now…..if he gets to free agency its always going to cost more.

    I’d at least discuss it with him…..if you could go ahead and pick up the 2 options and then tack on 4 or 5 years (making it a 6 or 7 year deal) then you’d have him for 28-35…..if you wait until he hits the market at 30 then if you want to keep him you may have to pay him into his late 30s…….they may just want to see where he is in 2 years and that’s fine….but it may cost a lot of money an you may have to pay him longer than you wanted to keep him at that point.

    Basically I just don’t think their no extension policy fits how the club is ran anymore……..

  132. m December 11th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    There’s a thing about the most whatever 1B in the AL. Pujols, Cabrera, Gonzales, Tex. Talking about how great this class is. Basically it’s a tale of the tape. They go through all these stats, all these categories.

    First comment I see at the bottom:

    twinsfan184
    Only ESPN would make a Boston tie in to the Pujols signing.

  133. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    I’d rather that the Yanks go after both Cespedes and Soler for the outfield help for the near and far future.

    ——

    Where does Centipedes play if you sign him?

  134. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Except for his age, Paul Konerko belongs with the elite 1st basemen in baseball.

  135. Jerkface December 11th, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    Paying 60 million for an 26 year old A-ball outfielder suddenly smarter than paying for an AAAA dominating 26 year old pitcher that throws 95.

    :rolleyes:

    (they should sign both)

  136. blake December 11th, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    I’d rank Pujols as the best first baseman in the AL…..but Cabrera might be the best hitter at the position. Pujols is a much better defender though and still a better overall player.

  137. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    GB….I really think that Cashamn wants as much of a buffer between the Yankee rotation and the B’s kids as possible….. …If all goes well they might see some innings in 2013 in a reduced low risk role…..

  138. blake December 11th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    “GB….I really think that Cashamn wants as much of a buffer between the Yankee rotation and the B’s kids as possible….. …If all goes well they might see some innings in 2013 in a reduced low risk role”

    I agree…..just hearing Cash talk he feels both Banuelos and Betances are still a little ways away and rightfully so (especially Manny)…..I also get the feeling that he doesn’t feel comfortable planning on lighting striking twice again with the rotation and doesn’t want to need to rush those kids when they aren’t ready.

    I think they’ll add at least one starter and I wouldn’t rule out two if they can find a taker for AJ…..

  139. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Pat,

    NYYs have at least 3 starters, probably 4, between the starting 5 in the rotation and Betances/Banuelos. It’s the bats in the outfield that are my main concern. Really shallow. They’re not likely to unload Burnett and delaying Hughes’ further experience will be a waste. He needs a full shot, a full season to see what he can finally do. It’s either an injury or innings limitations that have hurt…not lack of talent.

  140. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    blake……Albert is going to love hitting in Anaheim day games, it’s the heavy marine layer that rolls in that hangs up many a dinger that falls to the warning track……More so that even Dodger Stadium in Chavez Ravine…..San Diego is even worse as the Ballpark sits a few blocks away from the bay and then ocean

  141. blake December 11th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Pat M,

    yea you have to hit one to get it out of there at night…..Albert has always played in a pretty fair ballpark though so I wouldn’t expect it to affect him a ton….he can hit anywhere. I do think he’s in decline ever so slightly though…..and that the Angels are paying 254 million dollars for a player who has already played most of his best baseball…..it’s really exciting for their franchise right now though……may not be as much so in 5 or 6 years.

  142. Triple Short of a Cycle December 11th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Is that fool going to put Bradshaw in the game?

  143. blake December 11th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    The Angels payroll is going to be on up close to 160 million as well for 2012 and both Wilson and Weaver’s contracts are backloaded

  144. Duh Innings December 11th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    I wonder who that pitcher Cashman wouldn’t name is : )

    If Yu Darvish becomes an MLB pitcher, he is more likely to be another Hideo Nomo, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Hideki Irabu, or Kei Igawa (take your pick / pick your poison) than another C.C. Sabathia, Felix Hernanez, Justin Verlander, or Tim Lincecum.

    History i.e. the aforementioned four Japanese so-sos (Nomo) and busts (the other three) shows it.

    NO to Whu? Darvish who pitches to AAAA hitters.

  145. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Blake…..The Angels have reach the level of elite teams talent wise and of course in expectations…..They join The Yanks, Phillies as the Big Three……Rangers, Rays & Boston are the next level…….Losing CJ Wilson is going to have a larger impact on The Rangers that is being let on right now….., yanks, Angels and Phillies can go on several good streaks and run off some serious W’s….

  146. Duh Innings December 11th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    My prediction for Cano if he has a great 2013 (walk year) :

    8 years $162M (different salary per year or a straight $20.25M a year)

    - As many years as Teixiera signed with the Yankees for and Sabathia has received from the Yankees with his one-year extension.

    - More than Teixiera’s contract ($160M) and Sabathia’s initial contract ($161M) salary-wise.

    - Second biggest contract by salary for an everyday Yankee player after A-Rod, third biggest contract by salary for a Yankee after A-Rod and Sabathia, and third biggest contract by salary for an everyday A.L. player after A-Rod and Pujols.

    - A bigger contract by money than any Red Sock including Manny Ramirez, Adrian Gonzalez, and Carl Crawford.

  147. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    only JPP has shown up on defense in the first half…

  148. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    Keep in mind that we’re appraocahing the 1/2 point in Texeria’s contract…….If he cab still put up 35 dingers, 100 rib’s ,100 runs and 35 doubles along with his runsaving Glove then the Bombers are in very good shape when stationed next to Cano…….

  149. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    I don’t really see the Angels on the same level as the Yankees, Red Sox, or Phillies….they are getting their payroll in that range but they need to sustain some success for awhile on the field and keep their payroll at those numbers for awhile too to become the west coast version of those teams IMO. It’s way too early to crown them in the AL west.

  150. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    folks forget that Nomo was pretty darn good when he first came over….he struck out 230+ guys each of his first 3 seasons…..Dice K while he’s awful now was also pretty decent in his first 2 seasons.

    If the Yanks signed Darvish to a 5 year deal and the first 3 years of the deal were comparable to Nomo’s then it would probably be worth it……

  151. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    “My prediction for Cano if he has a great 2013 (walk year) :
    8 years $162M (different salary per year or a straight $20.25M a year)”

    that would sign him through age 38…..which is why if signing him to an extension now would prevent going that deep into his 30′s then the Yankees should consider it. Perhaps Cano would like the security an early deal for the same reasons Kemp did…..

  152. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    idk, nomo’s first 2 years were great, but his 3rd year his era ballooned to 4.25 and he was pretty mediocre from then on. if the yankees paid $110M for that kind of performance, i dont think anyone would be very happy with it.

  153. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    blake….Boston has to project at least 5-6 wins behind NY & The Angels, and I see Tampa and The Rangers about 3 wins behind and wild card combatants….But only about 50 % of the off season moves ahve been made, so the projections are moths away….

  154. Triple Short of a Cycle December 11th, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    only JPP has shown up on defense in the first half…

    ——————————————

    same story different game. Thankfully they only have 1 more year of Tuck

  155. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    “idk, nomo’s first 2 years were great, but his 3rd year his era ballooned to 4.25 and he was pretty mediocre from then on”

    he really fell off in the 4th and 5th seasons….but still struck out 233 guys in year 3 and won 14 games…..you’d obviously hope that Darvish would have a longer period of success….

  156. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    The Angels only scored 667 runs last year.

    The are improved but still don’t think they have enough offense to be considered a top rung team.

  157. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    the national league average era for 1997, nomo’s 3rd season, was 4.20, so he wasn’t even league average by his 3rd season.

  158. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    Pat M,

    yea I’m more talking about year in year out success…..the Yankees, Phillies, and Sox have been the 3 biggest payrolls and have put together multiple years of both success on the field and grabbing headlines and chasing free agents etc…..Moreno probably is wanting to join that class of the upper echelon of organizations with regards to revenue.

    As I said the other day….I’d still pick the Rangers in the west right now….that may change but I still think they are a more complete club than the Angels are at this point in time….and they likely aren’t done….I think they’ll add a pitcher and wouldn’t be shocked in Fielder found his way to Arlington either.

  159. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    even with Albert in there if you stack the Angels lineup against Texas it just doesn’t compare…..now the Angels have better starting pitching……but the Ranger’s is solid and may improve by spring training. Feliz is a big wild card there…..

  160. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    I can always count on Jerkface to take a opposing attitude when he can fall back on a convenient stata……How about this Face, let’s take their average over the past 3-4 years….I say they’ll surpass that figure…..2008 thru 2010 and I haven’t even looked those up…And I say the same for team wins in 2011 will surpass that accumulative average for wins come 2011……What do you think ???? You can get back to me come mid March if you like……..Angels are a much improved ballclub……

  161. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    Check that, that was LGY not Jerkface….Although they differ in name only in many ways

  162. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Pat

    You are going to have to break that post down. Not really sure what you’re trying to say.

    I think you may be too close to the Angels to keep an objective opinion. IIRC you had the Halos as division winners this time last year as well.

  163. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    “the national league average era for 1997, nomo’s 3rd season, was 4.20, so he wasn’t even league average by his 3rd season.”

    that doesn’t always tell the whole tale….league average pitchers don’t strike out 233 hitters….he was still pretty good then…he just fell off the table after that year.

    The point was that although Japanese pitchers for the most part haven’t sustained success long term in MLB….there have been a few that have had success short term and then injuries start to mount probably because of how they throw the ball and because they already had a lot of mileage on their arms……Darvish is going to be a new test case because he throws the ball more like an american pitcher…and he doesn’t have abnormal mileage on him.

  164. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    $110M for nomo’s first 5 years would be a terrible signing.

  165. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    What was the track record of Taiwanese pitchers in the MLB before Chien-ming Wang made it to the Bronx?

  166. blake December 11th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    “$110M for nomo’s first 5 years would be a terrible signing.”

    Yea….but only because he was awful in years 4 and 5. You’d like to hope it wouldn’t play out like that

  167. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Nomo wasn’t a particularly great pitcher in Japan.

    3.63 and 3.70 ERA his last two years there.

  168. Ghostwriter December 11th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    LGY December 11th, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Pat

    You are going to have to break that post down. Not really sure what you’re trying to say.

    I think you may be too close to the Angels to keep an objective opinion. IIRC you had the Halos as division winners this time last year as well.
    ===============

    All else equal, Pujols likely adds about 50 runs to the Halos offense, upping their run total to 717. These runs should up their win total by about 5 games, making them 91-game winners.. Winning 91 games would make the Halos legitimate wild card contenders, and it might be enough to put them in contention in the AL West, especially if they can find a way to split their season series with the Rangers.

  169. Ghostwriter December 11th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    I have a hard time imagining why I (or Cashman) should care whether some free agents try to use the Yanks to improve their negotiating positions. As long as they aren’t wasting
    Cashman’s time, who cares if somebody uses the Yanks to bleed a potential rival? However, the idea of signing somebody who doesn’t want to play in NY is lot more troubling….

  170. RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    CJ Wilson will also lock down some more wins for the Angels..

  171. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    LGY…..You need a better comment than me living in Orange County for my seeing the Angels as an improved club…..Texas losing Wilson makes their rotation one of the games top….The Rangers losing Wilson not only weakens their rotation significantly, but now it weakens their bullpen even more ……Elevators going in different directions these two clubs…..Lot went right for Texas in 2010 and lot’s went wrong for the Angels….Keep in mind the Angels didn’t get blown out until September

  172. Ghostwriter December 11th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    RadioKev December 11th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    CJ Wilson will also lock down some more wins for the Angels..
    ——

    And his absence also may hurt the Rangers.

  173. LGY December 11th, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    Pat

    The Angels are undoubtedly an improved ballclub. I think they are closer to 90 wins than 100 wins however.

    I would put them in the 90-92 range. I think the top rung teams like the Yankees are 95+ wins.

  174. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    LGY….They ended up with 86 wins and they limped to the finish line losing 4 straight and 7 of their last 10…… They could be a 95 win club the way they sit right now……As I stated much will happen before now and camps opening…..However they look like their sitting real good…..

  175. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    Albert/CJ hype factor should push the Angels’ O/U number to 94/95, pending other shoes to drop.

    Maybe higher if the A’s ship out another pitcher and Jack Z remains employed by the Mariners.

  176. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    Nick in SF….95 Wins would be a tough over under line to play actually….

  177. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    Giants plus 4 looks safe now

  178. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    I would guess 93.5 or 94.5 if they set the lines today.

    What a football game!

  179. Ys Guy December 11th, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    did the giants defense even get on the plane to dallas?

  180. Nick in SF December 11th, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    :grin: :lol: :grin:

  181. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    What a wild finish to the game and a mad 3:00 minutes of quarterbacking by Manning.

  182. Pat M. December 11th, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    Frozen twice in two weeks…….Once by his own coach though….Hard to believe

  183. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2011 at 11:57 pm

    What will Francesa, media and the fans have to complain about this week coming up? They’ll be beside themselves with nobody to blame.

  184. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2011 at 12:00 am

    After Manningham dropped that TD pass late, I didn’t think they’d pull it off.

  185. Pat M. December 12th, 2011 at 12:29 am

    Looks like everybody is turning in, Good Night and Good Morning LoHuders…..13 days left to Christmas…..Blows my mind !!!!

  186. GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2011 at 12:33 am

    Pat, just nothing left for them to complain about. Football Sunday has taken all of the reasons for living away from them.

  187. Nick in SF December 12th, 2011 at 1:07 am

    Yu Darvish’s potential gets disrespected too much around here.

    There’s a complaint that the Giants’ fantastic victory did nothing to alleviate.

    I’ll probably still get to sleep tonight, but I won’t be completely gruntled.

  188. Jerkface December 12th, 2011 at 7:01 am

    Here is what everyone has been wishing for, Outfield depth!

    YYHochi Yasuko?Yanagita
    Norichika Aoki, Yakult Swallows outfielder, Bat Left, will be posted on the 12 th US time.

  189. Gary December 12th, 2011 at 7:22 am

    Morning, hey the Gmen beat the Cowgirls. The look on Jerry Jones face was alone worth staying up that late. Right now it’s all that’s important this morning :-)

  190. PacoDooley December 12th, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Duh Innings December 11th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
    I wonder who that pitcher Cashman wouldn’t name is : )

    If Yu Darvish becomes an MLB pitcher, he is more likely to be another Hideo Nomo, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Hideki Irabu, or Kei Igawa (take your pick / pick your poison) than another C.C. Sabathia, Felix Hernanez, Justin Verlander, or Tim Lincecum.

    History i.e. the aforementioned four Japanese so-sos (Nomo) and busts (the other three) shows it.

    NO to Whu? Darvish who pitches to AAAA hitters.

    ===============================

    If a AAA or even a AA player put up numbers like Darvish he would be a top ranked prospect and get a trip straight to the Big Leagues. The numbers Darvish has put up are ridiculous. None of the previous Japanese pitchers were anywhere close. The only one that even comes close was Matsusaka – he had ERAs of between 2.13 and 3.68 in the 5 seasons before his move and had pitched only 186.1 innings the year before his move. Darvish has had a sub 2 ERA for the last 5 years and an ERA of 1.44 last year. He also had 276 SO last year in a 232 innings.

    My only concern over Darvish is the fact that he is used to pitching on longer rest. Otherwise, I see him as a top prospect that deserves the investment. With constraints on draft bonuses and IFA bonuses, this is where they can buy huge young talent without penalties.

  191. 108 stitches December 12th, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Either Kuroda or Darvish this week. Save some $$$ for Cespedes / Soler.

    Today is the last day for non tender contracts.

  192. Gary December 12th, 2011 at 8:11 am

    108 stitches December 12th, 2011 at 8:08 am
    Either Kuroda or Darvish this week. Save some $$$ for Cespedes / Soler.

    Today is the last day for non tender contracts.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Just my opinion which is often blasted, but why do we want another 36 year old pitcher? We just signed one.

  193. dogface December 12th, 2011 at 8:17 am

    Just my opinion which is often blasted, but why do we want another 36 year old pitcher? We just signed one.

    ============================

    Placeholder for the up and comers in AAA. If Banuelos is what the Yankees (and many others) believe he is, then there is probably a lot less merit in doling out $100M or so for a largely unknown quantity.

  194. PacoDooley December 12th, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Gary December 12th, 2011 at 8:11 am
    108 stitches December 12th, 2011 at 8:08 am
    Either Kuroda or Darvish this week. Save some $$$ for Cespedes / Soler.

    Today is the last day for non tender contracts.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Just my opinion which is often blasted, but why do we want another 36 year old pitcher? We just signed one.

    “““““““““““““““““““`

    Agreed – this team really need to ‘build’ for the next 5 years. As the core gets older (Mariano, Jeter, A-Rod) they need to think about how they can succeed as the production from these guys (and others) falls. With Darvish they add both a potential great SP and a very young gun. If Hughes can recover and at least one or two of the young pitchers can pull it together, this team can look at having a decent rotation in a couple of years (still anchored by CC).

    I also think it makes sense to go after the Cubans. Again, their spending on IFAs and overslot draftees will be curtailed, so they have to look at leveraging their money where they still can – posting fees and older IFAs.

  195. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Good morning.

    Garcia[35] and Kuroda[37 in February] offer one year protection until one or both of the killer B’s might be ready to start in 2013.

    I think the Yankees will submit a bid for Darvish. Over or under on the Matsusaka bid? $51,111,111.11

    Non tenders today- Tom Gorzelanny, a lefty starter switched to the bullpen, held lefties to a .157 BAA, might be a good pickup as a spot starter, second lefty in the pen if he gets non tendered.

  196. pat December 12th, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Grain of salt…….

    Jon_HeymanJon Heyman
    #chisox asked for 2 of montero/banuelos/betances for danks. #yankees might — might — give up 1 in a package. worth watching.

  197. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Been away from the forum (stop cheering) but would have to agree that Wilson and Pujols certainly make the Angels a better team.

    Will it make them competitive enough to stop the Rangers? Time will tell.

    I know, a real pithy post.

    :)

    Hadn’t realized that Wilson went to the Angels until I read this thread. Out of the hotstove loop apparently. Hopefully will get a chance to catch up once the holidays are over.

    Great day all.

  198. Villa Nova-Ya December 12th, 2011 at 8:35 am

    I get agita whenever I read about deals like that…

    (Wish there was a crystal ball, so you’d know what you’re trading away)

  199. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 8:36 am

    On Ryan Braun. Interesting short article on the discrepancies of the off the charts high level of testosterone that was found in his system.

    Probable Braun defense strategy
    By Tom Haudricourt of the Journal Sentinel

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/.....17828.html

  200. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 8:36 am

    Pat-

    I hope not. Betances maybe and only if it is a non-rental situation.

    Otherwise lose the idea.

    ;)

  201. Erin December 12th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    pat-we’ll be running out of salt soon with all of these Heyman “scoops” ;)

  202. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Also, FWIW, I have no feeling of panic about the Yankees going into the season as currently constituted. So why give up a potentially potent piece of the Yankees future just to satisfy a need to feel more secure?

    JMO

  203. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 8:38 am

    VN-

    I have one.

    And looking into it it says “Do not trade Montero or Banuelos”.

    No need to thank me for sharing.

    :)

  204. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Trisha-

    Good morning. CJ Wilson took less money to play for the Angels, than play for the Marlins, and when interviewed was surprised that the Yankees, didn’t call. It sounded like he wanted to play for them if not the Angels.

  205. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 8:40 am

    trisha-

    I hope you are continuing to eat those spicy foods.

    They are important in maintaining ones health.

    And even if that is BS they sure are tasty.

    :)

  206. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    YT-

    He also might have wanted to jack the NYY’s around to raise the bids.

    Cashman did not want to play. He gave him “snub city” instead.

    ;)

  207. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2011 at 8:44 am

    Villa Nova-Ya – smart money has fans knowing enough to take everything put out by the media with a grain of salt. Why waste good agita? Agita is never good for the soul but if you’re going to have it, wait until something actually happens!

    ;)

    I tend to be a nonbeliever absent glossies anyway. I don’t believe the Yankees were shopping AJ either by the way. Now as I said I’ve been out of the loop so if there was definitive proof beyond King’s article, I’m willing to stand corrected.

  208. PacoDooley December 12th, 2011 at 8:48 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2011 at 8:38 am
    Also, FWIW, I have no feeling of panic about the Yankees going into the season as currently constituted. So why give up a potentially potent piece of the Yankees future just to satisfy a need to feel more secure?

    JMO

    =============================

    I have to agree – I like the lack of panic – no more days of George shipping away the farm for a rental player or throwing mad money at bad players. Hopefully the upper management learned a valuable lesson in the Soriano deal – they overruled Cashman, lost a draft pick, tied up a lot of money, and got a mediocre (or worse) middle reliever. It’s worth the cost if it means that they let baseball people make baseball decisions…

  209. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Lefty John Danks held lefties to a .270 BA, righties .271. Home ERA 3.67, away 5.05. He’s a one year rental, and will likely get around 8M in arbitration.

    Righty Hiroki Kuroda held lefties to .264BAA, righties .244. Home ERA at spacious Dodger stadium 3.27, away ERA 2.85.
    One year contract, asking for same $$$’s as this past season-12M

    For me, get Kuroda-no prospects given up and if you want Danks sign him when he becomes a FA.

  210. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    MTU-

    I believe Wilson got the 100M offer from the Marlins. Really think he told his agents to try and get him to the Angels, and back home.

  211. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Trisha-

    The big story was Ryan Braun.

    I just attached this interesting article from a Milwaukee paper today:

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/.....17828.html

  212. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    Trader – wow on that one! The Marlins are sure shaping up to be a team to watch. Happy they’re in the NL. The NL East is going to be interesting to watch. The East teams in both leagues are the strength of the majors. I actually believe the NL might have surpassed the AL in terms of league competitiveness! Or certainly equalled it. I want to see the Marlins crash and burn only because Loria is as bad for baseball as Selig. Two sneaky and destructive peas in a pod.

    **********

    MTU – should be ashamed to say (but am not unfortunately) that Taco Bell continues to be one of my chefs! Their 1/2 lb. cheesy beef burrito is absolutely fantastic and has just the right amount of spicyness to satisfy the discerning palate! I had a really good szechuan chicken with cashew nuts dish over the weekend. So you know you can always count on me to maintain that good health!!! I just know you are also doing your part to keep the heat on in your part of the country!

    :D

  213. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    YT-

    Yup. Beach Boys type of guy all the way

    ;)

  214. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Trisha-

    Yes M’am. That has what the philosopher’s call “ontological certitude”.

    Put in simple terms. You betcha’.

    :)

  215. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    MTU-

    Ah, yeh-definitely dude!! :)

  216. Erin December 12th, 2011 at 9:00 am

    New Post- Today’s main event: Last day to tender contracts

    :arrow:

  217. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    trisha-

    nothing to be ashamed of at all. Should wear it as a badge of honor.

    P.S. I am eating a spicy bean and rice burrito as we speak. Breakfast of champions.

    :)

  218. Yankee Trader December 12th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Be back in a while.

    Will check back later on thoughts about Braun, the unusual high levels of testosterone, found while tested in the playoffs, the MVP award.

  219. 108 stitches December 12th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Gary December 12th, 2011 at 8:11 am
    108 stitches December 12th, 2011 at 8:08 am
    Either Kuroda or Darvish this week. Save some $$$ for Cespedes / Soler.

    Today is the last day for non tender contracts.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Just my opinion which is often blasted, but why do we want another 36 year old pitcher? We just signed one.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Kuroda is short term. He’ll be OK for one year until Betances / Banuelos have a full year of AAA.
    The Yankees need to think of reinforcing OF’s. The system doesn’t have many in the system that will be ready soon. Part of the reason why Nunez and others are getting extra OF work.

  220. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    “Don’t forget this earlier comment from a Braun source: ‘There has never been a result like this in the history of the program.’ Obviously, that refers to the extraordinarily high testosterone level detected.”

    That made me chuckle. Of course I’d like to be on the other side that comes back and says “No wonder the guy was hitting the bombs he was!”

    I had read that Braun had been accused of taking steroids (or whatever the accusation was).

    I tend to totally believe reports of steroid abuse, whether in the form of milkshakes or pills. Too bad the Mitchell report only concentrated on exposing the NY teams…

  221. MTU December 12th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    YT-

    Him goin’ anywhere else would have been kinda like gnarly dude.

    ;)

  222. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    “P.S. I am eating a spicy bean and rice burrito as we speak. Breakfast of champions.”

    :D

    I’ve definitely gone that root. No better way to start a day – well of course unless you’re lucky enough to have two of them on hand!!!

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