Today’s main event: Last day to tender contracts
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2011 
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Today is one of those quiet offseason days that actually means something, even without a major award announcement or any sort of league-wide meeting.
Midnight is the deadline to tender contracts for the 2012 season. For guys like Derek Jeter and Curtis Granderson, it doesn’t matter — and it probably passes without notice — but for guys with a borderline spot on the roster, there’s a chance of being dismissed.
Last year, the Yankees non-tendered Dustin Moseley and Alfredo Aceves. Moseley was due for a raise in arbitration, Aceves had health concerns, and the Yankees had enough long-relief/spot-starter depth that they could afford to move on. You could very easily make the case that each decision was a mistake by the Yankees. You could also argue that long relief and back-of-the-rotation depth was a non-issue.
Moseley wound up injured, but still pitched to a 3.30 ERA in 20 starts with the Padres. Aceves stayed healthy and finished with 10 wins and a 2.61 with the Red Sox. The fact Aceves’ success came with Boston obviously added some salt to the wound. Even though not having Aceves allowed Hector Noesi to emerge last season, my guess is the Yankees wish they had Aceves back.
Right now, the Yankees 40-man roster includes some borderline players without obvious spots for next season, but those players are cheap. The arbitration-eligible players who are due for a raise have significant roles to play.
re-post
108 stitches December 12th, 2011 at 9:01 am
Gary December 12th, 2011 at 8:11 am
108 stitches December 12th, 2011 at 8:08 am
Either Kuroda or Darvish this week. Save some $$$ for Cespedes / Soler.
Today is the last day for non tender contracts.
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Just my opinion which is often blasted, but why do we want another 36 year old pitcher? We just signed one.
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Kuroda is short term. He’ll be OK for one year until Betances / Banuelos have a full year of AAA.
The Yankees need to think of reinforcing OF’s. The system doesn’t have many in the system that will be ready soon. Part of the reason why Nunez and others are getting extra OF work.
We didn’t lose the playoffs because we didn’t have Aceves it doesn’t matter. In the end, his presence didn’t ultimately save BOS so it’s all good.
All you “Doors” fans can break on thru to the other side —->
I liked Aceves. I wish he had gone anywhere else.
Forget that comment above. It was meant to be in the last thread.
Getting old sucks. You misplace everything.
MTU – my reponses in previous thread. Back to holiday mania!!! Will check in again soon. Have the most wonderful kind of day imaginable. Fan of the Yankees and purveyor of spicy foods? Are there better blessings???
Trisha-
There might be a few but I don’t want to be greedy.
Don’t forget “wanderer”, and “seeker of beauty”.
Have a great day.
Tom Gorzelanny might be a good get as a non tendered LHP if Cashman is still interested in another bullpen LH and possible use as a starter. Paid $2.1MM last year with Washington.
http://nationals.mlb.com/team/....._id=452733
MTU- I was going to say, is there a new thread already? Give yourself a break-it’s Monday.
Erin-
Thanks. If Erica were around she would have HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS’ed at me.
Cano is a lucky Man to have you.
108-
Don’t know much about TG.
Kuroda on a one year contract is a much better idea than dealing one of the Big 3 for a Danks rental. I don’t believe Cash would be so cavalier about trading one of the 3 for anyone other than an ace, not a non-ace on the cusp of free agency. Logic would dictate going the Kuroda, and/or Darvish route.
And yes, upgrading the outfield should be a priority.
YF for assistant Mgr.
MTU, I’ll do whatever it takes to safeguard this team from knee-jerk moves. We have no reason to make a deal like the one Kenny Williams is proposing. Cash isn’t stupid. I don’t see how any fan would sanction such a deal.
YF-
I’m with ya’ on that one. I’m not giving up anyone good for a rental.
Yankees get Nakajima, Soler, and Darvish or Kuroda ?
Why give Kenny William talent that can be used to get a missing piece at the 7/31 trading deadline ?
Danks if a FA next year if Cashman has an interest in him. More sense to get Kuroda for 1-year deal @ $12MM. Seems like the safe way to go.
Do the Yankees put in a bid for Aoki? I would like them too. He’s much interesting then non tender candidates.
108-
It’s not my money but 12 Mil for Mr. K seems like a lot.
Freddy, who puts up similar #’s, only cost what ? Around 5 mil with incentives included.
It would be nice to get him for a bit less even though it’s only a 1 yr. deal.
Guess I really don’t care either way though.
Cashman likes shopping in the bargain bin at times.
Can’t say I blame him. I like yard sales too.
mtu – Kuroda is pretty significantly better than Freddy.
ID-
Is he double as good ?
And in what way ? You mean the stuff, etc.
Freddy gets results. To me that’s what counts.
maybe we should have another look at Bartolo if we only want another 1 yr type guy ?
Laura – I Bleed Blue December 12th, 2011 at 9:03 am
We didn’t lose the playoffs because we didn’t have Aceves it doesn’t matter. In the end, his presence didn’t ultimately save BOS so it’s all good.
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Respectfully, I think it could have made a difference. We did give up some runs in middle innings where he could have helped. The spot that comes to mind is using CC in the last game in relief on short rest. I know it’s speculation but he might have come in there especially after Nova went out early.
MTU – If you look at Bartolo you have to remove last year from your memory. He would be almost as big a question mark as last year coming into this season. Also, you already know he can’t last a full year.
Kuroda just flat out allows less baserunners. Less hits, more strikeouts. I don’t know if it’s “twice as good” but I don’t believe it has to be either. Talent/Contract tends to be exponential, not linear. $12mil that disappears after one season means very little int he grand scheme of yankee baseball.
yankeefeminista -
And that’s why those types of trade rumors give me agita – because I’m losing patience with the logic and reasoning behind moves like that, especially in the face of what Cashman has been saying and doing (or not doing) over the last couple of years.
And I have agita to spare – this is baseball agita, the kind that doesn’t bother me in “real life,” so I can spend it freely.
The only thing that kind of makes me pause is that the Yankees did not need Soriano last winter and the owners stepped in and made that one happen. That’s the only thing….
MTU December 12th, 2011 at 9:52 am
Yankees get Nakajima, Soler, and Darvish or Kuroda ?
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Well MTU isn’t that the question on the table. I think they get Nakajima. Soler or Csepeda right now is doubtful, to me there is just too much talk out there about money constraints and Cash seeming to have high trust in the current offense and OF. I don’t think they are going in that direction. Personally I don’t have the same level of trust in our offense based on their postseaon performance as of late.
I don’t know what will happen on Darvish, I think the Kuroda conversation is only interesting depending on what happens with Darvish. If they either don’t make a bid (zero chance in my opinion) or don’t win, then we are back into the swamp on most of the options that are talked about here everyday he being one of them, or we are rolling the dice with the current guys. The we can talk about pitching pitching pitching again durning the next offseason.
ID-
I do not know Kuroda all that well.
So in some sense I was arguing from a Devil’s advocate type postion comparing him w Freddy.
12 Mil may not seem like a lot but the Yankees are operating in a much more cost conscious fashion these days weather we like it or not.
If they can save 5 mil here and a few mil there it might actually mean something to them now.
It seems to be a new operating environment. More “buisness like”.
That is one of the reasons I’ll be a little surprised if the Yanks sign Darvish for a total of over 100 mil.
My 2 cents.
MTU – Darvish would certainly be a surprise, but also a longer investment. The yankees target is to get upder the cap by 2014, so a 1 year deal no matter how expensive should not be prohibitive.
Gary-
See my post to ID above. The new environment seems different from the old one.
IMO it might be better in the long run. A lot of money was wasted chasing some of the wrong FA’s.
With a stellar farm and a more discerning eye towards FA’s the Yankee will be formidable well into the future.
I give Cashman and co. a lot of credit for that vision.
Kuroda didn’t want to come here last year in the midst of a pennant race. Why would the Yanks want him after that? Cashman has made it clear he wants guys who really want to wear the pinstripes and Kuroda didn’t and probably doesn’t.
I’m more interested in the Yanks signing the Cuban position players than going all in on Darvish.
MLB needs to change the posting system. It’s bizarre to have teams blindly bidding on players under these circumstances. Make the Japanese team(s) set the price up front.
MTU December 12th, 2011 at 10:18 am
ID-
I do not know Kuroda all that well.
So in some sense I was arguing from a Devil’s advocate type postion comparing him w Freddy.
12 Mil may not seem like a lot but the Yankees are operating in a much more cost conscious fashion these days weather we like it or not.
If they can save 5 mil here and a few mil there it might actually mean something to them now.
It seems to be a new operating environment. More “buisness like”.
That is one of the reasons I’ll be a little surprised if the Yanks sign Darvish for a total of over 100 mil.
My 2 cents.
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It’s down to do we believe the current party line of that the rotation is in pretty good shape or that it’s has to have an upgrade. The discussion out there cuts both ways. One day Cash puts an exclamation after the need for pitching pitching pitching the next he throws cold water on it. For me I’m kind of tired of it, looking forward to spring training and we will see who the guys are that are out there.
ID-
Indeed. We’ll see soon.
MTU – Also keeping in mind that there is no substance to this Kuroda talk, just media speculation… he’s an available pitcher and the Yankees have money. That’s about the only thing tying them together right now
One day Cash puts an exclamation after the need for pitching pitching pitching the next he throws cold water on it.
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He didn’t really throw cold water on it as much as he’s waiting for the prices to come down.
MTU December 12th, 2011 at 10:00 am
108-
It’s not my money but 12 Mil for Mr. K seems like a lot.
Freddy, who puts up similar #’s, only cost what ? Around 5 mil with incentives included.
It would be nice to get him for a bit less even though it’s only a 1 yr. deal.
Guess I really don’t care either way though.
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Kuroda was paid $12MM by the bankrupt Dodgers last season. They tried to deal him at the 7/31 deadline but at the time he wasn’t interested in leaving the left coast. He’s open to it now.
Gary-
Everyone would like building the Team to be easy.
It just isn’t I guess.
We are very competitive as we sit.
Could/should we improve ? Of course. It’s a question of timing, cost, and availability.
Cashman is a patient guy. If he sees the right opportunity to do it he’ll move.
In meantime we have to consider our fortunate that our needs are relatively few and that we have the luxury of time.
Personally, I would like to balance out the rotaion a bit more with another quality lefty, and get a 2nd solid lefty for the pen.
Also, more OF depth would be good.
So I’m sort of with ya’ on wanting to tweak things. I can wait though. I want things done smart.
MTU December 12th, 2011 at 10:23 am
Gary-
See my post to ID above. The new environment seems different from the old one.
IMO it might be better in the long run. A lot of money was wasted chasing some of the wrong FA’s.
With a stellar farm and a more discerning eye towards FA’s the Yankee will be formidable well into the future.
I give Cashman and co. a lot of credit for that vision.
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If Darvish replicates his performance here from what he did in Japan, and pitches to the level that scouts and former managers/players who have played with him indicate he can do he is worth every penny of $100M.
Trouble is that many naysayers here give him zero chance of doing it using every argument avaliable. Being an optomist I think he has a better chance of success vrs failure. A young guy like this with a wide selection of pitches, good control and velocity and a extensive history of success. I ready to give him a chance, guys like this don’t show up very often.
Gary – It’s not that we give him no chance, it’s that to be worth $100million he has to be the best pitcher in baseball for the duration of his contract. What chance does he really have of that being true?
gary-
You may yet get your wish.
We’ll see soon.
Grienke just left CAA, hopefully this means he won’t be considering an extension with the Brewers.
If Andy Pettitte wanted to make a comeback would we turn him away because he’s old and would cost $10-12M?
LGY-
Are you really comparing Kuroda’s ability with AP ?
Does he have that kind of grit and ability to win the big game ?
At best I think you are really reaching there .
I would take Andy back in a heartbeat
Irreverent Discourse December 12th, 2011 at 10:35 am
Gary – It’s not that we give him no chance, it’s that to be worth $100million he has to be the best pitcher in baseball for the duration of his contract. What chance does he really have of that being true?
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Don’t think that is true given today’s pitchers salary’s. He does have to be in the above average catagory.
ID
Why does he need to be the best pitcher in baseball?
LGY – Would you pay anyone else $20mil/year?
upstate kate December 12th, 2011 at 10:40 am
I would take Andy back in a heartbeat
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Wouldn’t we all, Mr Postseason (and regular season also)
LGY December 12th, 2011 at 10:38 am
If Andy Pettitte wanted to make a comeback would we turn him away because he?s old and would cost $10-12M?
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I definitely wouldn’t turn Andy away.
MTU -
I want Darvish – period!
I also want the Cuban CF.
But, as I’ve grown older I’ve come to realize you don’t always get what you want, and if I were a betting man, I’d say the Yankees get neither, just more table scrapes coming, if anything.
Deep thoughts from Joba Chamberlain
Joba_62 Nothing like starting a Monday off with a new pair of socks! #thelittlethingsinlife
Did someone say Andy is coming back to us in 2012?
Dice’s investment was 17 per year.
Erin, I give that Joba tweet a big like.
LGY – Yeah… and he hasn’t been worth half that…
Al-
early Xmas presents ?
We’ll see.
Hey. I’m greedy too but the Yankees don’t listen to me. I love spending THEIR money.
But that’s not the discussion. You said Yu would have to be the best pitcher in baseball to be worth the investment.
Erin
Are they Elmo socks like Heisman throphy winner Robert Griffin was sporting? B/c they would definitely start a Monday off right
BIG AL December 12th, 2011 at 10:44 am
MTU -
I want Darvish – period!
I also want the Cuban CF.
But, as I’ve grown older I’ve come to realize you don’t always get what you want, and if I were a betting man, I’d say the Yankees get neither, just more table scrapes coming, if anything.
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Have heart AL, beyond all the conservative talk here and what gets put out for media consumption. Deep down the Yankees are still the Yankees and they know this club needs up grades. It will happen and to MTU’s point it will just take longer than we are used to, but there will be new faces come spring training.
Just my opinion, if Braun is found to have used PED’s, he should be stripped of the MVP.
Although very harsh, what if MLB did what the do in the NCAA, if a player cheats, every game that player was in is a loss, then teams would be forced to test on a regular basis, and if they report the player to MLB, the team does not suffer, only the player.
Also, the player loses his salary for the entire season if caught cheating. That would stop the cheating I’m sure, but the union would not allow it.
Andy Pettitte last two years in pinstripes
324 IP, 3.81 ERA, 118 ERA+, 2.13 SO/BB
Hiroki Kuroda last two years
398 IP, 3.23 ERA, 117 ERA+, 3.30 SO/BB
Gary -
I’m sure they’ll be new faces, but, will they bring major change, or fill in the crack type change.
LGY – Yeah, and you changed the subject by bringing up Matsuzaka’s deal. What’s your point?
Darvish is going to make upwards of $20mil/year. That puts him in CC/Halladay territory for all 5 or 6 years of his contract… Are you telling me there is a good chance he will be that good?
gary-
Sorry to throw more cold water on but it could also be by the TD ?
yankeefem-
I have to admit, the man has a point
ID
If Darvish gets a 6 year contract like Dice the total outlay will have to be 120M to be 20M per year.
You really think a team is dishing out 120M?
Darvish is going to make upwards of $20mil/year
Let me rephrase that. Darvish is going to cost some team more than $20mil/year. Obviously he’s not going to benefit from the posting fee.
ID -
Darvish will not make $20M/year on his first contract, more like $8 – $10M for 5-6 years. If he proves to be a #1 ace, his next contract will be $20-$25M.
Al-
It sort of depends on what becomes available and at what price.
LGY-
Good luck with that analogy. There is more to a player than just what the #’s show. I think you know that.
kate- I don’t know, but that would be awesome.
LGY – $50mil post… 5-6 years at $10mil per… that’s over $100mil already.
Big AL – Not talking about his contract.
ID -
OK, you were talking about the total cost to get him, not his salary alone, my bad, misunderstood.
LGY, Andy pitched in the AL East. Also see Andy’s playoff starts. Plus Andy’s a lefty. However, I am all in for Kuroda. Keeps the farm intact, and he should do a good job for us.
I think the team that gets Darvish will surprise us all.
Big Al – Yeah I misworded my first post i can see the confusion :p
I think the team that gets Darvish will surprise us all.
Agree totally. I still think Texas will blow everyone away with their bid but… for some reason I doubt the Yankee’s are even the second highest bid.
The only comparable we have to work with is Matsuzaka and his effective cost was 17 per.
LGY – Would you agree that Darvish’s combined posting fee + contract will exceed Matsuzaka?
The old free-wheeling, free-spending Yankees are dead.
Long live the new business-like, value-oriented, Farm-loving, cost-conscious Yankees.
Get used to it folks I think it’s here to stay.
We have no idea what Yu will cost.
Until we see the contract terms we can only say what we would or wouldn’t invest in him.
So what are we going to talk about today, Kuroda again?
LGY – OK If you are just going to dodge the question then don’t bother.
LGY-
Technically you are correct but I think ID is also right when he guesses that the cost will likely exceed Dice-K’s.
Al-
I think Texas, Marlins, Nats all could bid real high.
The Nats are my dark horse.
So what are we going to talk about today, Kuroda again?
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any topics except Yu Darvish and Tim Tebow would be acceptable.
Dodge what question?
From Jeff Passan at Yahoo re: Darvish:
6. Yu Darvish beyond the typical plaudits handed out to the Japanese right-hander. Darvish announced last week he would enter the posting system, and bids are due at 5 p.m. ET Wednesday. Just how high the bids go is the question, one that could influence whether Darvish plays in the major leagues next season.
If the posting fee comes in at a high number, a source close to the pitcher said, he will be far less likely to settle on a contract he believes fair. Darvish already believes the posting system to be an unfair fashion for the transference of players between Japan and MLB. The higher the fee, the less teams will be willing to spend to secure his services.
Team officials apprised of Darvish’s tack wonder if it’s a bluff to drive down the posting bids and maximize his contract value. Still, winning Darvish and being unable to sign him would be a massive disappointment to any team.
The source said Darvish’s preference is to play for a team on the West Coast, and one source pegged the Mariners as a darkhorse candidate, especially if they worry the price for Fielder will become prohibitive. Just how high Darvish’s total contract goes will be fascinating to watch – and the archetypal case in the cost of free agency compared to developing and keeping your own talent like when Tampa Bay signed …
Oh. I didn’t even see that question when I posted.
My feeling is Darvish will cost less than Dice. But that’s just a gut feeling.
If he costs more I believe it will only be a marginal amount. Like 18 per instead of 17.
ID -
My guess would be Miami or Texas, followed by the Nats and Yankees a distant 4th.
LGY – Sorry I didn’t realize you were going with “I don’t know” as your answer.
The lower the posting fee, the larger the contract will be. I highly doubt any executive in baseball is looking at the Darvish situation like it will be less than a $100mil investment. That means he has to be CC/Halladay/Lee/Verlander good. That means his floor for the worst his production can be to be worth the investment is Zach Greinke.
In order for there to be any “value” here he now has to exceed even those expectations. That’s called setting yourself up for failure, no matter how you look at it.
LGY – Sorry about the snark I didn’t realize i posted so close together before.
I could see it being close if the posting numbers are way below what I’m expecting, but I also feel like Darvish will make the team pay for it in the contract. He has said (or his agent did, or his father… i forget) that he wants to be one of the highest paid pitchers in the world, we only assume (or hope, i guess) that includes the posting fee.
Oh yeah just what the Mariners need. More pitching.
That’s hysterical especially since they can’t hit their way out of a paper bag.
And. they now have to compete with power houses like Texas and the Halos.
That almost splits my gut. Only Jack Z would be that stupid.
Too damn funny.
If I had to bet money on it, I’d guess the Yankess will bid a somewhat conservative 35-42 mil, figuring if they can get him in that range then they’ll be ok with it, if someone else wants to go all in, fine.
Would it not make more sense to go after proven ML SP talent, than spend $100M + on a gamble Darvish would turn out to be a #1 ace?
Yes, but only if getting the ML talent only cost money, and not your top AAA players, which are the teams future.
If the M’s were smart they’d trade Felix and rebuild.
But they’re not.
jack-
I’m betting someone will be that bold.
MTU -
Darvish wants to remain a winner, and going to Seattle would be just the opposite, he’ll be a big fish in a small pond of losers.
Now, if he were to go to a team like the Angels, that would be much different, but, I can’t see them in on Darvish, but again, I didn’t see them in on Albert either.
Al-
Morneno maxed out his credit card already.
One thing seems apparent, and I don’t know if it’s a good or bad thing right now, Mr. Yu has a big EGO.
He better be able to produce. As Perot once said, “Words are cheap actions are precious”.
I agree that Kuroda on a one year deal would be much preferable to trading Betances for Danks (not even going to entertain the idea of Montero or Banuelos)……but I still think Williams may come off that price the deeper the winter goes and if he’s dead set on trading him. The Rangers could get involved but are they going to trade Profar or Perez for a rental either?……I doubt it.
The Yankees can probably build a better package of second tier guys than any of the other clubs that would be in it for Danks from what I can tell……if thats stil not enough then Kuroda is a good option either alone or in addition to Darvish if they go there.
MTU -
Having a big EGO is not a bad thing, so long as you can back it up with positive results.
Later folks, you’all play nice.
Al-
Muhammad Ali ?
Darvish’s posting fee will have almost nothing to do with Dice K’s posting fee. It has Everything to do with a team possibly being forced to wipe egg off it’s face season after season IF Darvish becomes a solid 1 or 2 Slotter as ALL the scouts are predicting. The Yanks, Texas, and Boston do not want to suffer Not making the World Series, season after season, merely because they turned into Pikers at Exactly the wrong point in time. So you got 3 possible World Series teams, all aggressive, all deep pocketed, and All hell-bent on NOT being outbid by the other because they know the ramifications will be long-term and the indignation both enduring and unbearable. Miami also complicates the issue, as they are akin to a rogue nation with a nuclear bomb warranting an arms race\$$$.
New Post: Yankees arbitration-eligible players are non-negotiable
blake December 12th, 2011 at 11:32 am
I agree that Kuroda on a one year deal would be much preferable to trading Betances for Danks (not even going to entertain the idea of Montero or Banuelos)……but I still think Williams may come off that price the deeper the winter goes and if he’s dead set on trading him. The Rangers could get involved but are they going to trade Profar or Perez for a rental either?……I doubt it.
The Yankees can probably build a better package of second tier guys than any of the other clubs that would be in it for Danks from what I can tell……if thats stil not enough then Kuroda is a good option either alone or in addition to Darvish if they go there.
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It’s like riding in your car with 3 good tires and one tire that’s soft and quickly getting softer. You stop at the nearest garage and are told there little that can be done for the tire with a large spike in the sidewall.
For the Yankees that tire is ……. Burnett. Get another tire and save the spare in the trunk.
The question is – the level of talent that is available and the management talent pool. The new top guns coming out, as in Texas, Tampa and Toronto are scary good. AA in Toronto just took WS to the cleaners in getting a cheap closer for a middling prospect. This, after gifting them Rios.
It took Cashman four years to rebuild the the scouting system. The difference now is the strength of the management team. The Angels just bought short term gain for long term pain such as the Yankees have with the A Rod contract. Cashman is bright enough to realize that is a thing of the past so he focused on scouting, all while maitaining top standing in the Majors.
I think he blew Theo the Boston boy genius out of the water. (Skulking off to Chicago, whimpering as he goes)
The thing is there is there is no talent out there to buy, you have to build your own, and the new CBA penalizes the top teams.