Yankees arbitration-eligible players are non-negotiable
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2011 
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Around this time of year, teams typically non-tender a handful of players because pending arbitration cases will make them mare expensive than necessary. This year, the Yankees have six arbitration-eligible players, but all six play key roles moving forward. Hard to imagine the Yankees not offering a contract to any of these guys this winter.
Joba Chamberlain
Setup reliever
After Tommy John surgery, Chamberlain could be back by early summer (though he’s surely going to try to be back even sooner). The hard-throwing right-hander is part of the three-headed setup crew, building that deep bridge to closer Mariano Rivera. Even after the injury, it’s hard to imagine the Yankees simply cutting bait. Chamberlain could be back on the mound by early spring training.
Brett Gardner
Left fielder
The Yankees speedy, homegrown outfielder might have been snubbed for the Gold Glove, but he’s proven to be a valuable player in the field and on the bases. He’s doesn’t bring much pop, but he does a good job getting on base, runs better than anyone on the team and covers plenty of ground in the outfield. Could be a leadoff option again if the Yankees drop Derek Jeter in the lineup.
Phil Hughes
Starting pitcher
After a disappointing, injury-shortened season, Hughes will return as a strong favorite for a spot in the rotation. He’s seen as something of a wild card, a guy who could be as good as a No. 2 starter or as unreliable as a No. 5. But there’s no question he’ll be back, with high hopes for a significant impact.
Boone Logan
Lefty specialist
The Yankees haven’t had much luck with left-handed relievers, but Logan has stayed healthy and become the team’s go-to specialist out of the bullpen. Right now, the only alternative is a Rule 5 pick. Ultimately, the left side of the bullpen hinges on Logan, unless the Yankees find a suitable replacement (and manage to keep him healthy enough to actually pitch).
Russell Martin
Catcher
Martin could be in line for a significant raise, but the Yankees have left no doubt that they plan to bring him back and put him back behind the plate. Even with Jesus Montero ready to play a role, and Austin Romine nearly there, Martin made a strong first impression and the starting job is his.
Dave Robertson
Setup reliever
Another homegrown talent, Robertson just keeps getting better for the Yankees. Last season was a breakout experience, with Robertson emerging as not only the Yankees best setup man, but as one of the best in all of baseball. He’s heading for arbitration for the first time, but the Yankees will gladly pay a little extra to keep Robertson in those tight, late-inning situations.
Associated Press photo
re-post
blake December 12th, 2011 at 11:32 am
I agree that Kuroda on a one year deal would be much preferable to trading Betances for Danks (not even going to entertain the idea of Montero or Banuelos)……but I still think Williams may come off that price the deeper the winter goes and if he’s dead set on trading him. The Rangers could get involved but are they going to trade Profar or Perez for a rental either?……I doubt it.
The Yankees can probably build a better package of second tier guys than any of the other clubs that would be in it for Danks from what I can tell……if thats stil not enough then Kuroda is a good option either alone or in addition to Darvish if they go there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s like riding in your car with 3 good tires and one tire that’s soft and quickly getting softer. You stop at the nearest garage and are told there little that can be done for the tire with a large spike in the sidewall.
For the Yankees that tire is ……. Burnett. Get another tire and save the spare in the trunk.
Bryan Hoch answers some questions about Darvish and others.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....um=twitter
I think they a going to trade AJ anyway but if they add a starter then its a near certainty…..trading him will help off set the salary of whoever they add.
The more I think about it, I don’t believe getting Darvish would preclude the Yanks from making a run at Cole.
Last year they were set to carry CC-Lee-Burnett. When factoring in the lux tax CC-Hamels-Darvish should cost about the same.
CC
Hamels
Yu
Nova
Banuelos/Betances
in 2013!!
donnybrook – “all the scouts” are not projecting him as an ace. I’ve seen more than a few reports of him being a mid-rotation pitcher.
A middle of the order guy for $100m +? No thanks. The least likely of all scenarios is Darvish showing up and being a Cy-worthy $20m/year pitcher.
Kevin Long chuckles at The Boston Chucklehead, Josh Beckett.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....um=twitter
blake – trading him will help off set the salary of whoever they add. How? They will be paying Burnett still PLUS whoever they replace him with PLUs you aren’t getting squat back for a salary dump (remember this is in the other direction than we are used to). That doesn’t really save any money.
If Hamels makes it to the market I doubt anything will stop them from going after him.
LGY – Last year they were also not trying to get the payroll under a certain $ amount in 2 years.
GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Kevin Long chuckles at The Boston Chucklehead, Josh Beckett.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports…..um=twitter
*******************
Beckett is such an idiot.
The manager just said, and clearly, that Derek was his lead off man. So, other than to stir the pot, why would you write the above about Gardener. Who is below average offensively.
Math….if they eat half his contract to trade AJ then that saves over 8 million dollars per year in 2012 and 2013……thats money that could go towards a better pitcher…..
LGY – Last year they were also not trying to get the payroll under a certain $ amount in 2 years.
——————-
I find it very hard to believe the Yankees suddenly made the decision this winter to lower payroll.
LGY – I was under the impression that this $184m mark was because of the new CBA… which is not something they had to deal with before this offseason.
If you add a pitcher and keep AJ…..that is going to cost more than adding a pitcher and trading AJ. Right now they have about 190 million committed to 2012……they could probably reduce that by 6-10 million dollars by trading Burnett……forget about “paying AJ”….you have to pay him more to keep him.
What about “playing” AJ though… it’s not like he’s going to be on the team not pitching…
The question is – the level of talent that is available and the management talent pool. The new top guns coming out, as in Texas, Tampa and Toronto are scary good. AA in Toronto just took WS to the cleaners in getting a cheap closer for a middling prospect. This, after gifting them Rios.
It took Cashman four years to rebuild the the scouting system. The difference now is the strength of the management team. The Angels just bought short term gain for long term pain such as the Yankees have with the A Rod contract. Cashman is bright enough to realize that is a thing of the past so he focused on scouting, all while maitaining top standing in the Majors.
I think he blew Theo the Boston boy genius out of the water. (Skulking off to Chicago, whimpering as he goes)
The thing is there is there is no talent out there to buy, you have to build your own, and the new CBA penalizes the top teams. The top currency now is top players in the minors AA and A. This requires top evaluators going forward.
Irreverent Discourse December 12th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
What about “playing” AJ though… it’s not like he’s going to be on the team not pitching…
Another reason to trade him….so you don’t have to pitch him anymore.
blake – So you don’t have to? What? Other than one month last year AJ was fine.
These pitchers are probably the only ones of the possible non-tenders that the Yanks may have an interest in.
Tom Gorzelanny (LH)
Rich Hill (RH)
J.P. Howell (LH)
Jose Mijares (LH)
Peter Moylan (RH)
Jo-Jo Reyes (LH)
Joe Saunders (LH)
LGY December 12th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
LGY – Last year they were also not trying to get the payroll under a certain $ amount in 2 years.
——————-
I find it very hard to believe the Yankees suddenly made the decision this winter to lower payroll.
—
New CBA.
AA in Toronto just took WS to the cleaners in getting a cheap closer for a middling prospect. This, after gifting them Rios.
——————-
A middling prospect?
Molina had a 9.25 (!!!) SO/BB ratio across 130 innings in A+ and AA last season.
I would wager that prospect will be better than Santos in 2 years. Santos was not that good to begin with, he would easily have lost that closer job if anyone other than ozzie was managing the whitesox last year.
You guys don’t think the Yankees knew what was coming in the new CBA?
They may not have known the definitive provisions being proposed but they had to have indications of what was being pushed for.
AJ I think has qualified as one of the worst starting pitchers in baseball over the last two seasons…..and there is a real chance he gets worse…..if his velocity declines anymore then it’s going to get ugly…..I like the guy but he’s one of the only spots that the Yankees can potentially trim payroll a little….and I think AJ needs a fresh start for himself as well…..it would be good for all parties IMO
A middling prospect?
Molina had a 9.25 (!!!) SO/BB ratio across 130 innings in A+ and AA last season.
—
I like Toronto’s end of that deal more but it’s not that badly in their favor. Molina is good but he’s mostly a fastball/splitter guy, could end up in the bullpen.
blake December 12th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Math….if they eat half his contract to trade AJ then that saves over 8 million dollars per year in 2012 and 2013……thats money that could go towards a better pitcher…..
————————————————————————————————————————-
Still pushing your voodoo math?
It makes sense in you think like the wife that comes home from a day of shopping and beams at her hubby and says, “Honey, you’ll be so proud of me. I saved you $20 dollars today and it only cost me $1,000.”
He couldn’t possibly get any worse. His HR/FB% was off the charts bad last year, and they have been working on him trying to locate his fastball rather than just throw it past everyone, hence him using it less and throwing it a little slower.
The $15mil they would have to spend to have AJ pitch for another team makes no sense to me. He doesn’t have to pitch all that well to be worth his contract, like I said… his 2009 numbers would be perfect.
Details usually matter but when the difference is $44M is the deferred part the deal breaker?
JoeStrauss
Detail: Cards’ $210M, 10-year proposal included $30M deferred w/o interest. Angels’ $254M bid includes $0 deferred.
pat – i think that $30mil was part of the $210m, not in addition to it… so it’s doubly bad, deferred money AND less money.
GreenBeret7 December 12th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
These pitchers are probably the only ones of the possible non-tenders that the Yanks may have an interest in.
Tom Gorzelanny (LH)
Rich Hill (RH)
J.P. Howell (LH)
Jose Mijares (LH)
Peter Moylan (RH)
Jo-Jo Reyes (LH)
Joe Saunders (LH)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not so sure about Hill and Howell. Hill had surgery after starting 2011 with Boston. Howell wasn’t the same in 2011 after coming back from TJ surgery. All the rest are possibilities.
Gb7.
It depends on what she bought and whether we needed it…..a better analogy would be if she came home and said hey honey I sold this stock before it hit zero and we at least got some of our money back for it…..it’s not voodoo math…..it’s preferring to pay AJ some money to pitch for someone else than to pay him all 33 million to pitch for the Yankees.
Details usually matter but when the difference is $44M is the deferred part the deal breaker?
JoeStrauss
Detail: Cards’ $210M, 10-year proposal included $30M deferred w/o interest. Angels’ $254M bid includes $0 deferred.
–
Wow that’s a huge financial difference. You really can’t blame Albert for taking the Anaheim deal, it’s far superior
Still pushing your voodoo math?
—————–
So dumb.
blake has said repeatedly he believes the Yankees add another pitcher this winter.
So the question is do you pay the new pitcher AND AJ’s total contract to remain with the team or the new pitcher + whatever amount you need to pay to get rid of AJ.
Let’s say the new pitcher cost $10M and it cost the Yankees $16 over the next two years to dump AJ.
It’s $26.5M for Pitcher X and AJ vs. $18M for Pitcher X and AJ on another team.
Not that complicated.
Jose Mijares from the Twins would be my first choice with Gorzelanny, Reyes and Moylan following.
ID
I know the 30 was part of the 210. But even if the 30 wasn’t deferred it was already 44M less was what I was saying.
Not that complicated.
—
Dont be mean, math is hard
LGY,
Yes.
It’s also $26m for Pitcher X and AJ, which can return equal or greater value (2 $13m performances wins)… or $18m for pitcher X, which has a less likely chance of returning that value.
Gotta run…..you guys have a Good afternoon.
It’s also $26m for Pitcher X and AJ, which can return equal or greater value (2 $13m performances wins)… or $18m for pitcher X, which has a less likely chance of returning that value.
——————–
That means you would have to get rid of Hughes or Freddy to fit both Pitcher X and AJ in the rotation.
Hughes and Freddy are both better pitchers than AJ so that’s not the ideal solution.
“Wow that’s a huge financial difference. You really can’t blame Albert for taking the Anaheim deal, it’s far superior”
No, you can always blame these guys for going after the money instead standing by things that are more important, like loyalty. If Pujols really loved STL and their fans, he would have taken the lesser deal. I’d like for someone to tell me that he can’t feed his family on $210M so that I can laugh in their face.
Pujols doesn’t love STL or it’s fans. What he loves is $$$. He’s no different than any of these other ballplayers.
Who is this Pitcher X and why haven’t I heard of him before? What were his stats last year? This seems highly suspicious
Pujols doesn’t love STL or it’s fans. What he loves is $$$. He’s no different than any of these other ballplayers.
—
For the difference in the two contracts ($40 million + $30 million deferred) I would stop being a Yankee fan and root for the Red Sox. I think almost everyone would do the same. Loyalty and love for a city/fanbase is great but this is life changing money we are talking about. Just think about what you would do in his situation, imagine the money being offered to you and what you could do with it.
A middling prospect?
Molina had a 9.25 (!!!) SO/BB ratio across 130 innings in A+ and AA last season.
——————————-
Toronto got a closer that is very cheap for the next few years. Granted relievers come and go but with the prices closers are getting these days, it’s a very bright move. It’s more a question of “What will you do for me today rather than next week”.
Which brings up a question – Cashman’s assets – What would Joba be worth, if he comes back successfully, on an OF market?
At this point Noesi probably could pitch as well or better than AJ, and he makes like leauge minimum.
LGY – Blindly adding another pitcher (blakes premise) is not an ideal situation anyway, but that’s the premise we started with so our discussion deals with working around it.
I also don’t see having 6 or 7 starters as a problem. They had 6 last year and only 3.5 of them made it all the way to the postseason.
Patrick December 12th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Pujols doesn’t love STL or it’s fans. What he loves is $$$. He’s no different than any of these other ballplayers.
—
For the difference in the two contracts ($40 million + $30 million deferred) I would stop being a Yankee fan and root for the Red Sox. I think almost everyone would do the same. Loyalty and love for a city/fanbase is great but this is life changing money we are talking about. Just think about what you would do in his situation, imagine the money being offered to you and what you could do with it.
—
But we don’t already have 10′s of millions nor the 200 million of the lesser contract. If you already had 300 million, would another 30 or 40 million be a big deal? Imagine if you were a Yankee player and your choice was to stay playing for the Yankees or leave for the Angels. I know which choice I’d make.
But we don’t already have 10?s of millions nor the 200 million of the lesser contract. If you already had 300 million, would another 30 or 40 million be a big deal? Imagine if you were a Yankee player and your choice was to stay playing for the Yankees or leave for the Angels. I know which choice I’d make.
—
It’s tough to say unless you are in that situation. Also I don’t think you realize how big a deal it is that $30 million is deferred on a contract that was already $40 million less than the alternative. It’s a pretty huge difference.
And why should Pujols feel any loyalty to St. Louis to begin with? It’s not like he grew up there. He gave them 11 seasons of amazing baseball including 2 championships in return for whatever they paid him. I think they are more than even at this point.
“For the difference in the two contracts ($40 million + $30 million deferred) I would stop being a Yankee fan and root for the Red Sox. I think almost everyone would do the same. Loyalty and love for a city/fanbase is great but this is life changing money we are talking about. Just think about what you would do in his situation, imagine the money being offered to you and what you could do with it.”
I’ve never been in this situation so I can only tell you what I THINK I would do. If I were playing with the Yankees and I had this choice to make, I’d pick the Yankees every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Everything I’ve ever read about Pujols indicated that he felt that way about STL. I guess not.
ID
They stashed Colon in the bullpen to start the season. Who goes there this year?
Being even is not the point.
And loyalty or desire to stay somewhere is the point. Pujols obviously didn’t love playing in St. Louis all that much, or the money wouldn’t have mattered much. Like I said, imagine yourself playing for the Yankees. Most of us would stay for less money, because we’d be filthy rich either way.
“And why should Pujols feel any loyalty to St. Louis to begin with? ”
Come on, Patrick. Do you think Jeter thought that way when he was going through his contract issues? These are guys who haven’t played for any other team. I think that there is an emotional bond that forms when it’s the only thing you’ve ever known. If it has been a good relationship, why wouldn’t he feel some loyalty? Maybe he picks STL if LaRussa was still there. I don’t know. I guess I’m just frustrated with $$$$ being the priority for so many professional athletes.
LGY – Whoever needs to? I don’t know… whoever is worse out of Burnett/Hughes/Nova/Garcia? Realistically I don’t see any reason to guarantee any of them a rotation spot. If it comes at the behest of a Kuroda or a Darvish or some trade… one of them is going to lose. All of them should end up pitching better because of the uncertainty/need. Obviously you hope that’s not Burnett since he makes more than the other 3, but that’s money already spent. That shouldn’t stop them from organizing the talent in the most efficient manner.
Even if they make it all the way through the season without ever needing that 6th starter, I would consider that a huge success. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and only have rookies.
Laura,
Money is a priority for so many people PERIOD. Has nothing to do with being a professional athlete. Getting paid what you think you are worth is about the money but also about the respect. Honestly if I’m a Cardinals fan I’d be more mad at the team than Pujols for leaving. They showed him a pretty huge lack of respect by offering such a crap deal. The Angels stepped up and offered him what he is worth
Brewers signed Aramis Ramirez, 3 year deal.
I think that there is an emotional bond that forms when it’s the only thing you’ve ever known
===============================
I’m sure Jeter was feeling that bond when Cashman suggested that he “go out and see if you can do better”. If someone offered Jeter 4 years and $80M and the Yankees stood their ground at 3/$51M, he’s probably playing for someone else.
Laura
You’d have a much better point if the loyalty you are looking for from the players was reciprocal from the owners and fans but it isn’t.
Fans turn on players when they don’t perform as they want them to and owners trade away players who no longer fit their plans.
Actually, the Cardinals made a fair offer that they thought they could afford, considering he’ll be 41 or 42 when the contract ends. The Angels did an A-Rod. I don’t blame the Cardinals at all for not overspending.
DKnobler Phillies announce they’ve traded Ben Francisco to Jays
I don’t blame the Cardinals at all for not overspending.
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I don’t blame them either because I’m not a cardinal fan and I don’t really care where Pujols goes. If I were a Cardinals fan I would be more angry with the team than Albert though.
There were probably lots of factors that led to Pujols being “done” with St Louis.
First and foremost… his HOF manager retired.
Who knows how upset he was that they didn’t extend him last offseason.
After you make all that money it should not be your priority… but when one team is offering you $250million, and the team you have been with your whole career is offering you $180mil with $30mil deferred for some unspecified amount of time… that’s pretty insulting.
“I’m sure Jeter was feeling that bond when Cashman suggested that he “go out and see if you can do better”. If someone offered Jeter 4 years and $80M and the Yankees stood their ground at 3/$51M, he’s probably playing for someone else.”
No, he was feeling hurt because he sees the Yankees as his family, his baseball home. If he didn’t give a crap, he wouldn’t have been so pissed. I would have thought Pujols saw STL as his home.
For the record, after the year Jeter had, I thought the Yankees offer was decent.
“After you make all that money it should not be your priority… but when one team is offering you $250million, and the team you have been with your whole career is offering you $180mil with $30mil deferred for some unspecified amount of time… that’s pretty insulting.”
I wish someone would insult me by offering me $210M.
I wish someone would insult me by offering me $210M.
**********************
Me too
Laura – You’re slightly missing the point, I think. That number ($210mil) is only relevant to him. In your case it means nothing, you can’t even imagine that kind of money.
If your job was a contract job, and your contract was up… would you stay with your company for 20% less money than someone else was offering you to do the same job??
What if they told you that in addition to that 20% less, you would only receive a portion of it (14%) after you stopped working there 10 years from now?
You would be working for that new company in a heartbeat.
Aramis Ramirez to the Brewers? I wonder how much – on the Brewers’ side – was pushed along by the fear of losing Braun for a third of a season; on top of maybe losing Fielder?
I wish someone would insult me by offering me $210M.
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Oh please, that’s a silly thing to say. Put it in perspective. Just scale it down to more “normal” levels. Lets say I make $70k a year and I’m due for a raise. My company gives me a raise to $75k but I go out on the open market and find that with my skillset and experience I’m actually worth $100k. That $75k salary looks awfully insulting at that point.
Also worth noting that Pujols did sign what ended being a very friendly long term deal in 2004, in which he sold 5-6 free agent seasons at pretty short money. This was his one and only shot at the homerun paycheck. Can’t blame him for capitalizing on it.
“You’d have a much better point if the loyalty you are looking for from the players was reciprocal from the owners and fans but it isn’t.”
I’ve long complained about fans booing their players. As for the owners, this is a business. Sometimes, you have to do what’s best for the team…even when it means letting go of a fan favorite. Look at the Posada situation. Are the Yankees being disloyal to Jorge by not bringing him back, when clearly, his best days are behind him? Should they waste a roster spot on him when it could be put to better use?
As for the owners, this is a business. Sometimes, you have to do what’s best for the team
===================================
It’s a business for the players too.
Since 2002 Pujols has given the Cardinals $297mil in free agent value (by fWAR, bear with me).
Since 2002, the Cardinals have actually paid him $103million.
Then they shorted him and jerked him around when it came time to pay up.
Cardinals fans should still be happy. They got the absolute most of that previous contract. I saw this comment on hear, or maybe it was on Twitter..
The Cardinals got The Beatles, and the Angels are getting the solo stuff.
“If your job was a contract job, and your contract was up… would you stay with your company for 20% less money than someone else was offering you to do the same job??
What if they told you that in addition to that 20% less, you would only receive a portion of it (14%) after you stopped working there 10 years from now?”
The difference is that there isn’t an emotional component to my job, at least not the same emotions that are tied to a baseball game.
The Cardinals got $200mil of baseball player for free, their fans have no right to complain.
Laura – Why is it different? Are you not comfortable with people you work with? With processes that you have learned and understand because you’ve been dealing with them for 10 years? How are you not emotionally tied to your career? Baseball or being an attourny or being an engineer… you have an investment in this chosen career which should be extremely emotionally important to you. I don’t think you are being honest there. We’re not talking about the guy doing french fries at Wendy’s turning down a raise from McDonalds. We’re talking about someone doing their chosen profession.
Add in to that suck-salad the fact that the person who has been your boss, holding it all together for your entire career is not returning on this new contract.
“As for the owners, this is a business.”
It’s a business for the players too. Fans don’t like to hear that, but it is.
If players wanted to do charity work, they could come up with a better forum than entertaining people who boo and curse them out.
The difference is that there isn’t an emotional component to my job, at least not the same emotions that are tied to a baseball game.
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I don’t see the difference. I think you are assuming this huge emotional component that just doesn’t exist. It’s a job for the players, the same way whatever you do is just a job (and whatever I do is just a job). I’m sure Pujols forged some emotional connection to St. Louis just like you or I have done the same at our jobs. I don’t see why it would be any greater for a baseball player.
“Laura – Why is it different? Are you not comfortable with people you work with? With processes that you have learned and understand because you’ve been dealing with them for 10 years? How are you not emotionally tied to your career? Baseball or being an attourny or being an engineer… you have an investment in this chosen career which should be extremely emotionally important to you. I don’t think you are being honest there. We’re not talking about the guy doing french fries at Wendy’s turning down a raise from McDonalds. We’re talking about someone doing their chosen profession.”
My career WAS emotionally important to me….until my company laid me off last December. Now, not so much.
My apologies to Mr. Pujols as I’m sure my current predicament has colored my view on his choices in life. Still, given a choice between being a Yankee or anything else, I’d pick NYY.
The difference is that there isn’t an emotional component to my job
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Think you’re overstating this component quite a bit, Laura. Emotion takes a back seat in about 99% of contract negotiations. This, like every other business, is about money. Both sides (player and team) want to make as much of it as possible. If they can’t get that done together, neither side is shedding tears over it.
If they can’t get that done together, neither side is shedding tears over it.
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Unless you are Dan Gilbert hahaah
After playing all those seasons in St. Louis, could be the Cards have reason to believe the rumors of Pujols being 35yrs old or thereabouts. A 10yr deal for a player rumored to be that age, would be the only thing that would prevent me from signing an Icon coming off a Championship Season.
“A 10yr deal for a player rumored to be that age, would be the only thing that would prevent me from signing an Icon coming off a Championship Season.”
10 year deals are bad business. Pujols had his worst season ever this year. LAA is gambling that this isn’t a sign of things to come.
Ken_RosenthalKen Rosenthal
Ramirez 3-year deal with #Brewers expected to be in $34M to $37M range. Numbers not confirmed. Brewers earlier made offer to Rollins. #MLB
It’s not even a gamble, Pujols is going to be terrible by years 8, 9 and 10 of the deal (if not sooner). They are essentially overpaying for the first 5 or 6 years and hoping he’s not a complete disaster towards the end.
Still not as bad as the deal the Yankees gave A-rod
I don’t really place any blame on the Cardinals for their offer, they thought it was fair for their own reasons… that’s their problem. I take exception to the fans complaining that he didn’t take a significantly lesser deal, or anyone saying that Pujols is just about money because of how this went down. We’re talking about so much money here ($70m) that I don’t know any amount of loyalty to StLouis would have mattered.
“If the M’s were smart they’d trade Felix and rebuild.”
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M’s ARE rebuilding, MTU. Around Felix.
The M’s started 18 rookies last season (13 of which made their major league debuts). If that doesn’t qualify as “rebuilding, I’m not sure what does
At the same time (as our old friend Lou would say) I wouldn’t be surprised to see the M’s loosen the purse strings a bit to sign a FA or two OR use some of that farm talent they’ve been collecting (especially arms in the low minors) to net some much needed offense. Especially in light of the new big-spenders in the ALW…
“Still not as bad as the deal the Yankees gave A-rod ”
Hey, at least we got 2009 out of it. We don’t win that year without Alex. And who knows, maybe he’s still got some magic left in his one good hip.
patrick – I disagree, A-Rods deal is front-loaded so it will not hurt as much towards the end of the contract. I haven’t seen a yearly breakdown for the Pujols deal yet so we don’t know quite how dumb it is
Ramirez and Trumbo would have been a better situation for the Angels than Pujols and Trumbo, and a damned sight cheaper. They still need a 3rd baseman.
10 year deals are bad business. Pujols had his worst season ever this year. LAA is gambling that this isn’t a sign of things to come.
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It is pretty crazy, but I think having the DH makes it a lot more palatable than it otherwise might be. Who’s to say he can’t be what Edgar Martinez was from ages 37-40?
Laura – if Albert shows that this past season was not a blip, but the start of his decline, then….. oh, my goodness gracious……… Add that to the Vernon Wells contract, and …….. the Angels are in deep doo-doo. Very deep, and very expensive.
“We’re talking about so much money here ($70m) that I don’t know any amount of loyalty to StLouis would have mattered.”
Where did you get $70M? The true difference is $40M (still a lot by OUR standards). The fact that $30M of it was deferred really shouldn’t have been an issue. It’s not like the guy wasn’t going to have any money to live off of.
10 years/$254M (2012-21)
signed by LA Angels as a free agent 12/8/11
no-trade protection
deal includes 10-year personal-services contract to begin once player contract expires
I wonder what that last bit is about…
“Hey, at least we got 2009 out of it. We don’t win that year without Alex. And who knows, maybe he’s still got some magic left in his one good hip. ”
Yeah true. I actually do think A-rod has a few great years left but by the end of his contract it’s going to be pretty bad I think
“I don’t really place any blame on the Cardinals for their offer, they thought it was fair for their own reasons… that’s their problem. I take exception to the fans complaining that he didn’t take a significantly lesser deal, or anyone saying that Pujols is just about money because of how this went down. We’re talking about so much money here ($70m) that I don’t know any amount of loyalty to StLouis would have mattered.”
I don’t care about the Cardinals so I don’t really care that they didn’t re-sign Pujols but yeah I think the fans are being silly. If they really are mad that Pujols is gone they should be angry at the team, not Albert, in my opinion.
laura – He may not be around to collect that $30mil? The Cardinals may not be around? Deferred money is anything but guaranteed. What if something happens between now and then that voids his contract? There are lots of reasons I would look at that as a $180mil offer… but that’s me.
Moreno is attempting to Dominate the L\A Market before Cuban, (or whoever), comes in and cleans things up.
“Laura – if Albert shows that this past season was not a blip, but the start of his decline, then….. oh, my goodness gracious……… Add that to the Vernon Wells contract, and …….. the Angels are in deep doo-doo. Very deep, and very expensive.”
That is one of the funniest things to me about this deal. He still is barely making more than Vernon Wells. Wow, that contract has to go down in the history of baseball as the Worst Contract Ever! People claim that Alex’s deal is bad. We got one World Championship out of it. TOR and LAA, so far have Jack Squat from that Wells deal.
GB – hi there. Hope you’re well down south. Here in NY and LI, it’s abeautiful 40 degrees or so. Puts some color in your cheeks.
I really thought the Angels would go after Ramirez. He is a better fit, and a better deal long term. Arte must look at George, and Hank, as his role model.
Laura,
Deferring money also lessens the value of the contract. The present value of money is worth more than $3 million in the future due to interest.
This is guess work but if the contract is $210 million over 10 years with $30 million deferred I’m assuming that’s $3 million deferred every year so he would be getting $18 million a year with $30 million paid out some time in the future. Take 2012 for example, he would get $18 million then $3 million in 10? 20? years. It’s not just $3 million, it’s $3 million minus any interest he’d be getting on that money for 10+ years.
Afternoon, Joe.
Not terrible down here today, though the rain is a drag. Temps have been ranging from the 40s at night and 70s in the day. Today is the exception. Yeah the Pujols over Ramirez makes little sense to me, and then add in 1st baseman/DH Kendrys Morales and that spot is getting crowded Ramirez gives them defense, a .290-.300, 25-30 homer. 90-100 RBI and still gives them the money to sign a closer and more bullpen help. still, if Moreno can handle the paychecks, it’s on him. I think that he’s overplaying the “grab the LA market” thing. With the mess with the Dodgers, it wasn’t going to be hard.
Loyalty goes both ways. Teams are loyal to many players, and as was the case with Posada, he was ready to jump ship to the Mets for an additional 1 year on the contract, so the Yankees gave in, and he got the additional year. Posada got the better of that deal, but the team made a choice to be loyal to the player and their fans.
I do disagree with what was said about Jeter, there is no way he leaves the Yankees over money or years on the last contract. Being a Yankee makes him more money than a larger contract from another team would have mattered.