One year later: The Cliff Lee decision
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 13, 2011 
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Exactly one year ago, December 13 started just like any other day of the offseason up to that point. That means it started with the Yankees waiting for a Cliff Lee decision.
“Dude, I got no idea,” Brian Cashman said that morning. “In terms of when are they going to make a decision, when they do, the whole world will know.”
The whole world knew much later that night — just a few minutes before midnight, actually — when news began to break that Lee was on the verge of a deal with the Phillies. The Yankees and Rangers had been heavy favorites, but Lee’s affection for Philadelphia was a game-changer.
“Plan B is patience,” Cashman said the next day. “The one thing The Boss has taught me personally is the fact that you have to get in the arena and fight. Sometimes you win the fight and sometimes you lose the fight… We’re not down and out at all.”
In the end, Cashman was right. The Yankees settled for a series of smaller names and smaller contracts to fill their rotation, and that decision — in some ways — led to the emergence of Ivan Nova and the discovery of Freddy Garcia. Losing out on Lee was a blow, and certainly the Yankees would feel better about their rotation going forward if they had him under contract, but the Phillies got no closer to the World Series than the Yankees did.
One year ago, December 13 was certainly not a good day for the Yankees, but it wasn’t the crushing blow many expected at the time.
Associated Press photo
I remember going to bed that night knowing that the news could break any time……still thought the yanks had a good chance and remember waking up the next morning …..clicking on mlbtraderumors…..and then saying something like “what the curse word”
anyway….the Yanks survived and will be just fine without Clifford.
blake def, i dont want someone who wants to be somewere else…was pissed at the time but lookin back its all good,
“I don’t think they have the money.”
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The M’s have the money….
Whether or how they choose to spend it, is the question…
Yeah Blake.
Things usually have a way of working out for the best.
We’ll just take Hamels insted.
Glad to escape a thread that had some weird religious discussion going on in it lol.. you guys were all over the map last night!
Ah Cliff Lee.. may he never win a WS for as long as he pitches. And with the way Phillie looked last year and their lack of necessary improvements this off-season so far I’m pretty comfortable that my wish might come true.
sp: instead.
From previous post:
the Red Sox already have 94 million on the books for 2014
========================
They’ll get a small break by backloading some of those deals. For example, even though Pedroia is paid $10M, he’s only at $6.75M on the luxury tax. If Lester’s $13M option is picked up, his lux tax hit would be $7.1M. Lackey’s number drops to $13.8 from $16.5 because of a clause that dictates an injury automatically triggers vesting of a 6th year at the league minimum, so 5/$82M becomes 6/$83M.
The Mariners haven’t been mentioned much if at all in the Yu sweepstakes… do they have any money? Ichiro isn’t going to sustain that fanbase forever.
Shame
is that a wish, or did you just curse him
Taking a quick look at the list on non-tenders there are a few interesting names there who could serve roles with the Yankees:
Joe Saunders
Jose Mijares
Luke Scott
Dan Cortes – had shoulder surgery and may miss all of 2012 but is young and a hard thrower and would be worth a minor league contract in case he’s able to come back
Ryan Spilbourghs
Hong Chi Kuo – if they can get him over the yips he had last year he would be just an outstanding addition to the pen. He’s nearly unhittable when he’s on.
Conversely, even though A. Rodriguez’s contract decreases over time, he’ll always count for at least $27.5M for luxury tax purposes. I believe it can be even more once he starts hitting those homerum milestones.
Shame-
The Mariners do not need more pitching as much as they need some hitting.
Can’t hit their way out of a wet paper bag.
The Rangers and Halos are going to bury them.
The Yanks dodged a bullet there. With the upcoming fiscal constraints brought on by the CBA, Lee’s contract would have been an absolute albatross from ’14 forward.
That’s exactly the type of contract the Yanks need to avoid: massive overpay for aging talent.
Dogface,
Yea they can stay under but my point was can they competitively stay under? Probably will depend on how their players in the lower levels progress. Because right now kt doesn’t seem like they have another wave of Pedroias and Lesters on the way anytime soon…..
That was a year ago today? Wow. I was so sick of the name Cliff Lee by that point, that I was kind of happy he ended up going somewhere else.
The Mariners are going to keep building that 3rd place team around King Felix
Bobby V has already shown what a dork he can be.
He said that Nakajima would go back to Japan.
To me it looks like he’ll be thrilled to sign with the Yankees.
LOL @ the Phillies losing Game 5 of the 2011 NLDS 1-0 with Roy Halladay on the mound pitching a complete game (or near complete one, I didn’t check the boxscore.)
Blake-
They should trade Felix. Now. They are on the fast train to nowhere.
“Conversely, even though A. Rodriguez’s contract decreases over time, he’ll always count for at least $27.5M for luxury tax purposes. I believe it can be even more once he starts hitting those homerum milestones.”
True……but they still should have some wiggle room IF their young players pan out……that’s the big if. They need Montero to be what we think he can and they need enough of their young pitchers to be successful so that the rotation salaries can offset the Arods and Texs.
The big thing that winter is likely going to be Cano and Granderson and the decisions made on those guys may determine whether they can stay under 189 or not…….fir that reason aline I think they should discuss extension with Cano now. You don’t want to get into a situation in two years where you’re close to the threshold and are in a bidding wasr to keep him…….signing him now could potentially keep the number of years less and also could allow you to budget more accurately over the next two years.
MTU December 13th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Bobby V has already shown what a dork he can be.
He said that Nakajima would go back to Japan.
To me it looks like he’ll be thrilled to sign with the Yankees.
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Bobby V showed what a dork he can be long before this.
MTU – Yeah I wouldn’t think Yu would make them competitive or anything crazy like that but they have tried to corner the Japanese market in the past and obviously have a good location for it. I know it would be a total stretch for them but I’m just trying to think of teams under the radar because I have a feeling he goes to like… the Padres or someone no one expected/predicted.
(Disclaimer: I don’t really think he’ll sign with the Padres. Simmer down.)
MTU,
They should…..but they wont.
Chip-
OK. But now he is managing the Sux. So that’s a real bonus.
Shame-
My dark horse pick for Yu is the Nats. They have money to burn and like to make a splash.
A Darvish/Strasburg one-two punch might be very interesting. A good drawing card.
Blake:
Agree on Cano. Other consideration in getting him done soon rather than later is the years you are getting. For example, if he’s on the FA market right now, he’s probably looking at 7 years and something on the order of $155M-$165M. I’d rather be paying that for the age 29-35 years than I would his 31-37 years. Plus, as you suggest, it better positions the team to project where they’ll be budget-wise heading into the 2013 offseason.
Bobby V showed what a dork he can be long before this.
————————————-
Curt Schilling seems to agree.
wzzzzzup!
MTU December 13th, 2011 at 9:33 am
Chip-
OK. But now he is managing the Sux. So that’s a real bonus.
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Touche
By the way – if you haven’t already check out the song Red Solo Cup by Toby Keith – I think he wrote it on a dare.
Blake-
I like Rosy. Nice lady.
That said, she says that the M’s are building around the King.
I find that funny myself because I think he’ll be on Social Security at the rate they building a team around him.
How stupid is Jack Z. He had a chance to grab Jesus and he passed on it.
Lucky for us. we dodged a bullet on that one. Thanks Jack.
blake – Totally agree on Cano and Granderson. Its a no-brainer to start making decisions on them now. I could see them envisioning Granderson shifting over at some point and he’s a good defender, so start thinking about how many years you’d like to have him at without it hurting you. Cano? Give him a lifetime deal and call it a day.
Cano will likely get around the same dral Kemp got.
8/160 – probably with the Yankee tax on it, so 8/168
dogface –
I don’t think the Yankees will look to extend Cano. They’ll deal with him much the same way they dealt with Derek.
I also wonder (though have no way of knowing for sure) if the Yankees may be a little concerned that if they hand Cano the long term contract that he might get a little lazy and fall back into some bad habits.
Thanks for the tip. I haven’t. I’ll check it out sometime.
I’ll return the favor. If you haven’t seen the movie “Super 8″ I highly recommend it.
Chip:
I don’t think they will either. Simply hasn’t been corporate policy to do so, ‘cept on exceedingly rare occasions…like not wanting your horse of a #1 starter testing the market.
That said, the new CBA maybe they are compelled to at least think about relaxing that policy going forward.
*UNDER the new CBA….
Dogface,
Absolutely …..if an extension would allow you to sign him into his mid 30s instead of his late 30s then its something they should consider.
With the new soft cap and their own self imposed financial restrictions the “no extensions” policy just doesn’t fit anymore IMO.
They need to save money when they can save money and not rely on outbidding everyone in free agency anymore……they still can choose who they offer extensions to and who they don’t like any other team.
Cano? Give him a lifetime deal and call it a day.
*********************
Yes, please.
Id probably wait on Grandy to be honest. They have him 2 more years and that’ll take him to age 32……he’s 2 years older and doesn’t have the track record of being an elite player that Cano does. I love the Grandyman but wouldnt talk extension right now…….think its best to see where he is in 2 years.
I also think if Montero has a good rookie year and seems to be turning into what he’s predicted to be then they should “Ray him” offer him a Matt Moore type deal and see if he bites.
This waiting until free agency stuff doesn’t fit their business model anymore
Why are Latino players that have an off year called lazy?
Never understood that…
somebody needed comfirmation that bobby v is a dork?!?
MTU December 13th, 2011 at 9:45 am
Thanks for the tip. I haven’t. I’ll check it out sometime.
———-
a buddy of ours makes a cameo in the video.
Y’s-
Nope. I was just reveling in it.
Especially now that he is managing the Sux.
Howe Farr December 13th, 2011 at 9:55 am
Why are Latino players that have an off year called lazy?
Never understood that…
—————-
I don’t think it’s Latino players – Carl Pavano was accused of the same thing after he got his Yankee deal
Chip-
It kind of got overlooked. Friend of mine told me it went thru the theaters quickly.
That’s kinda cool on your friend. Guess he was an “extra” ?
MTU December 13th, 2011 at 10:00 am
Chip-
It kind of got overlooked. Friend of mine told me it went thru the theaters quickly.
That’s kinda cool on your friend. Guess he was an “extra” ?
————-
No no, a friend of ours – you know him too – is in the Toby Keith video.
The Yankees still have almost all of their post season business to complete. But one move they should try to explore quickly once they put in a bid for Darvish is to get on the phone with Kuo’s agent.
He had a very rough year last year obviously. And at times it seemed like he didn’t want to pitch anymore. But social anxiety disorder is a common issue and there are answers for it.
NYC has one of the highest concentrations of psychiatrists and therapists in the world for a reason. And it’s not like their hurting either – plenty of very high paying clients working down on wall street, etc.
They should really see if Kuo would take a non-roster invite/minor league deal.
When he’s right he’s one of the single best relief pitchers in the game. He’s just fantastic. Injuries have been his big issues. But if you get him on a deal with no risk – then if it doesn’t work out fine. But if it does – it’s a lot of upside.
If Kuo wants to play – and from his agent it sounds like he does – they should make a push to get him. The change of scenery and fresh start alone may help him. Maybe that’s why he’s interested in playing again.
Chip-
Ok. Gotcha. I misunderstood.
By the way – since I wasn’t around yesterday – here are my two cents on the Ryan Braun mess:
eh.
I just assume that the playing field is level and that most players are doing some form of PED or another to get ahead. All I ask is that if they sign on with the Yankees they don’t stop doing whatever it was they were doing.
I do find it funny that not only did he have PEDs in his system but he had “an insane level” of PEDs in his system.
CB December 13th, 2011 at 10:03 am
The Yankees still have almost all of their post season business to complete. But one move they should try to explore quickly once they put in a bid for Darvish is to get on the phone with Kuo’s agent.
He had a very rough year last year obviously. And at times it seemed like he didn’t want to pitch anymore. But social anxiety disorder is a common issue and there are answers for it.
NYC has one of the highest concentrations of psychiatrists and therapists in the world for a reason. And it’s not like their hurting either – plenty of very high paying clients working down on wall street, etc.
They should really see if Kuo would take a non-roster invite/minor league deal.
When he’s right he’s one of the single best relief pitchers in the game. He’s just fantastic. Injuries have been his big issues. But if you get him on a deal with no risk – then if it doesn’t work out fine. But if it does – it’s a lot of upside.
If Kuo wants to play – and from his agent it sounds like he does – they should make a push to get him. The change of scenery and fresh start alone may help him. Maybe that’s why he’s interested in playing again.
————-
Agree completely. Kuo is the very definition of low risk/high reward right now. Even if he does require a major league deal it won’t be for an insane amount of money and the upside if he’s right is huge.
You’re talking about having a lockdown tandem setting up Rivera with Sori, Robertson and Kuo.
Good Morning Ladies and Gents:
An interesting thought about Darvish landing in Seattle. Doesn’t the Nintendo guy own the M’s ? I would assume like Rosy says he has plenty of loot and it is just a choice whether he wants to spend it or not.
But if they can land Darvish and couple him with Felix, Pineda and Vargas that would be a pretty nice staff. Of course then they would need some offense, Prince anyone ?
CB-
I hear what you are saying about the medicine.
But NYC and social anxiety would seem to be like putting an alchoholic in charge of a liquor store.
I know Greinke functions with it but he is not in NYC. I did not favor that move.
I guess if they could get him for almost nothing they have nothing to lose.
Can’t imagine that would work out though.
russellmartin55 Happy to be back in Pinstripes for 2012.
MTU December 13th, 2011 at 10:07 am
CB-
I hear what you are saying about the medicine.
But NYC and social anxiety would seem to be like putting an alchoholic in charge of a liquor store.
I know Greinke functions with it but he is not in NYC. I did not favor that move.
I guess if they could get him for almost nothing they have nothing to lose.
Can’t imagine that would work out though.
————–
I think if you give him a small contract then there’s no pressure of him having to live up to something so the anxiety might go away.
CB,
True…..if he’d do a no risk deal like that then absolutely they should check. Hope you’re well.
Erin December 13th, 2011 at 10:08 am
russellmartin55 Happy to be back in Pinstripes for 2012.
————
Happy to have him back.
Now the question is – do you trade Cervelli and bring in someone else to serve as the 3rd catcher?
Cervelli does have some value in that he’s young and cheap – you might be able to at least get a fringy minor league pitcher for him (I know the Pirates were offering Brad Lincoln until Cervelli got hurt) so do you deal him and then sign a guy like a Koyie Hill to get the 10 or 15 games that won’t be caught by the combo of Martin and Montero?
Chip-
Seems like pouring gasoline on a fire to me.
Greinke said the problem was not out on the mound competing. it was dealing with things like the press.
In NYC you can’t get away from the press for very long.
Would you give Cano a 10 year deal right now?
Even with Martin coming back I hope Jesus gets the opportunity to catch and work with Girardi and Pena to further his development and not be strictly a DH. Martin wore down last year and it showed. Do the Yanks carry 3 catchers this year ? Cervelli in or out ?
Speaking of Pena has ther been any word on the coaching staff returning for next year ? I assume Girardi and Rothschild, the others ? Anyone know ?
FakePeteGammons If Joe Saunders wants me to call him a 2012 Cy Young candidate no matter how bad he pitches he should sign w/ #Redsox. This is Peter Gammons
Shame Spencer December 13th, 2011 at 10:23 am
Would you give Cano a 10 year deal right now?
******************
Totally. Although I may not be the best judge in this case.
MTU December 13th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Chip-
Seems like pouring gasoline on a fire to me.
Greinke said the problem was not out on the mound competing. it was dealing with things like the press.
In NYC you can’t get away from the press for very long.
————–
True – but the language barrier can help there. Also, how many times does a middle reliever really have to deal with the media?
Couldn’t disagree more on Kuo. 5 elbow surgeries and an aching elbow every year is a recipe for disaster. The last thing the Yankees need is to play nursemaid to another bad arm.
Martin wore down last year and it showed. Do the Yanks carry 3 catchers this year ?
=========================
Martin was actually pretty good towards the end of the season. He sucked (offensively) for about 4 months beginning in mid April, but he was hitting pretty well the last 45 days or so.
Good article at RAB about Darvish…..
“Couldn’t disagree more on Kuo. 5 elbow surgeries and an aching elbow every year is a recipe for disaster.”
On a non guaranteed minor league deal? It would be zero risk……if he got hurt or wasn’t any good then just cut him loose.
“But NYC and social anxiety would seem to be like putting an alchoholic in charge of a liquor store.”
MTU,
There are people in NYC making seven figures who trade millions of dollars of assets a day with some form of social anxiety disorder. If you want to include depression alongside anxiety disorders that number will jump even higher.
And its going to be a low risk deal given he’s been nontendered.
And ultimately – just ask him. If his social anxiety disorder makes it such that he doesn’t want to pitch in NYC – he’ll just say so. He’ll have other options if he wants to pitch in a less pressured place.
And I can think of concrete situations where being on a team like the Yanks could help him. The yankees could afford to use him as a situational lefty. Maybe that will help him get back on the mound. They pen is so deep he’s just be a back end guy, etc.
He’s a dynamite pitcher. When healthy – he’s better than most closers. Has some analogies to Robertson.
Kuo is good I’d like him on the Yankees but didn’t he just have another surgery? Yeah I just checked, he recently had his FIFTH elbow surgery.
blake December 13th, 2011 at 10:31 am
“Couldn’t disagree more on Kuo. 5 elbow surgeries and an aching elbow every year is a recipe for disaster.”
On a non guaranteed minor league deal? It would be zero risk……if he got hurt or wasn’t any good then just cut him loose.
————
Was just about to say that myself.
No one is handing him a 5 year 100 mil contract. A minor league deal or even a major league deal worth very little base salary carry no risk.
I tried educating people about social anxiety disorder last year when Grienke’s name came up so let me try it again.
It has nothing to do with pressure to perform. It has nothing to do with playing in front of bigger crowds.
It’s about individual confrontations in public AND private settings. Grienke woulld have no more trouble in NYC than in KC. He’s more likely to have an “episode” as the result of a confrontation at a restaurant/movie than being booed by faceless strangers.
Who gets dropped from the 40-man roster to sign a broken reliever?
Sure sign Kuo —- Marte and Feliciano need someone to hang with
CB-
I can appreciate the guy’s talent when he’s healthy. I’m not a professional so I would have to defer to those who know more about Social anxiety disorder.
As you say, they can ask and he can respond. It’s low risk either way.
Hope you are well. Great to see you here. Happy Holidays.
Blake,
Doing well. Hope you are as well.
Feels like the baseball market is getting less liquid over time. Tougher and tougher to get deals done.
And there’s a substantive reason for it. Teams across the board have come to a conclusion that it just makes no sense to give away young prospects for older veterans in many instances. The second part of that is that there is much more focus on value in terms of finances so no one wants to take on salary.
Fortunately, the Yankees are well positioned. I am very concerned about the long term impact the cap on international signings will have. I’m very aware that many of the best internationals the yankees signed were low priced – Cano, etc. But there are guys that they’ve gone out to get and really prioritized getting where they could use their financial advantage – Monter, Sanchez. Heck go back to Felix when they offered him the moon.
But for right now the team is well positioned.
I really have my fingers crossed that Cole Hamels makes it to the market. He’s the guy. He’s the missing piece.
Grienke woulld have no more trouble in NYC than in KC
Aside from the logistics of there being 10 times the individual confrontations in NY than in KC…
Who gets dropped from the 40-man roster to sign a broken reliever?
–
Aw ID doesn’t know how minor league deals work, cute.
Shoppach to Boston?
Guess the Varitek era is over…..
“Sure sign Kuo —- Marte and Feliciano need someone to hang with”
1 of those players is not like the others. Two of them signed long term guaranteed contracts for significant money for relievers.
One of them would be a non-roster invitee who you could cut in spring training and not pay a dime.
This has been the crux of the discussion.
Good old plan B. It’s a two-year plan B apparently with no end in sight.
I’d still like the Yankees to try to make a deal for Brian Matusz….
Go outside the box a little bit.
He had an AWFUL 2011 season, but he is a lefty and showed real talent early on in his career, and i think a change of scenery would work well…..
“I really have my fingers crossed that Cole Hamels makes it to the market. He’s the guy. He’s the missing piece.,
I think he’s a guy they’d forget the budget for perhaps…….im somewhat optimistic that be will make it to free agency…..
If it wasn’t already a certainty, Jason Varitek’s time as a member of the Red Sox probably officially expired this morning.
Shoppach to the Red Sox for a year and $1.1M.
Jerkface December 13th, 2011 at 10:39 am
Who gets dropped from the 40-man roster to sign a broken reliever?
–
Aw ID doesn’t know how minor league deals work, cute.
———-
I was going to say something similar – but in a nicer way.
I really don’t understand why fans get so bent out of shape about non-roster deals?
This happens every winter.
How did non-roster deals work out for the yankees last year?
And even after all the complaining last year when non-guaranteed deals helped the team in critical areas people still make such a fuss about them.
If the player accepts there is virtually no risk.
ac1,
Baltimore kills all pitching prospects so I don’t think I’d be too interested in Matusz
86w183 December 13th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Sure sign Kuo ?- Marte and Feliciano need someone to hang with
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86w183 December 13th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Sure sign Kuo —- Marte and Feliciano need someone to hang with
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Worst case scenario with Kuo would be 2011 Mark Prior, best case scenario you get a dominant late inning reliever from the left side.
I’d trade for Greinke and trial test him in the final year of his contract in NYC but I would offer Eduardo Nunez as the centerpiece of the deal. Brewers probably hang up the phone.
ac1 December 13th, 2011 at 10:43 am
You don’t really think that Showalter and Angelos are going to deal an under developed LHSP to the Yankees now do you ?
dogface December 13th, 2011 at 10:44 am
If it wasn’t already a certainty, Jason Varitek’s time as a member of the Red Sox probably officially expired this morning.
Shoppach to the Red Sox for a year and $1.1M.
================
No reason to keep Varitek around to slug it out with Nick Green. Heidi is gone and now works for the Lakers.
Considering the rag that printed this, I rather find this difficult to believe, but, it certainly would tarnish his reputation and his well-cultivated image..
This will certainly give everyone the fill of gossip for the day.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....JXpyHoMKSN
CB,
You’ve mentioned Hamels several times over the last few days. He would certainly be a nice pick up. If the Yanks don’t go after Darvish this year, they are definitely all in on Hamels next offseason.
I could actually see 2012 being a little similar to 2008 in that Cashman tries to develop the young pitchers then spends huge money after the season to lock up prime free agents. If the Yanks don’t get Darvish and/or Kuroda (or a trade for Danks/Gio/whatever) I could see Noesi and Banuelos / Betances getting a lot of starts this year.
If you look at the contracts coming off the books following the 2012 season, there are going to be a lot of open spots. Swisher, Rivera, Feliciano, Logan, Martin, Garcia are all free agents. The Yankees would have to fill out at least 1 spot in the rotation, multiple spots in the bullpen, right fielder and catcher.
GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2011 at 10:51 am
Considering the rag that printed this, I rather find this difficult to believe, but, it certainly would tarnish his reputation and his well-cultivated image..
This will certainly give everyone the fill of gossip for the day.
———–
I don’t have a problem with it.
He’s never professed to being a monk.
GB7,
That doesn’t tarnish Jeter’s image, he’s just being generous
Vineyard Yankee December 13th, 2011 at 10:50 am
dogface December 13th, 2011 at 10:44 am
If it wasn’t already a certainty, Jason Varitek’s time as a member of the Red Sox probably officially expired this morning.
Shoppach to the Red Sox for a year and $1.1M.
================
No reason to keep Varitek around to slug it out with Nick Green. Heidi is gone and now works for the Lakers.
————-
Who has a better chance of landing a job this winter:
Varitek or Posada?
Somebody will offer Kuo a ML deal, but, still, just not worth the aggrevation. Personally, just not interested in having to see the Yanks deal with another year long fight to get someone on the field. NYY has enough of that in the minor league system.
Erin’s the only one that would consider a decade of Cano starting right now?
GreenBeret7 December 13th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Somebody will offer Kuo a ML deal, but, still, just not worth the aggrevation. Personally, just not interested in having to see the Yanks deal with another year long fight to get someone on the field. NYY has enough of that in the minor league system.
———————————-
Even if the Yankees went to a major league offer at the league minimum, who would it cost them? One of the Rule 5 pickups? Kuo’s upside is a lot higher than that of either of those guys.
Considering the rag that printed this, I rather find this difficult to believe, but, it certainly would tarnish his reputation and his well-cultivated image..
============================
Might be bad form to give the free repeater the same parting gift, but he’s a free agent living in the city. Not a shock to read he has the occasional visitor. Be more shocked if I read he didn’t.
Would Hamels accept Yankee dollars or does he also have the Cliff Lee syndrome ?
Will the Phillies just let him walk ? Can they afford another big contract ?
Who knows ?
Who knows ?
–
All good questions and ^^^ is the correct answer… at the moment
jerkface – seriously? go *%& yourself.
I’ll bet any amount of money that Kuo gets a major league contract from someone. A 30 year old reliever one season removed from being completely dominant is not taking a minor league contract.
MTU December 13th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Would Hamels accept Yankee dollars or does he also have the Cliff Lee syndrome ?
Will the Phillies just let him walk ? Can they afford another big contract ?
Who knows ?
—————-
Before I worry about that let him actually make it to free agency.
I’ll bet any amount of money that Kuo gets a major league contract from someone. A 30 year old reliever one season removed from being completely dominant is not taking a minor league contract.
–
5 elbow surgeries. FIVE
Minor league contract if anything
If the Yankees are worried about Hamels reaching the market, why not contact the Phillies and try to trade for Hamels?
Chip-
That’s one of my questions above. Maybe he just re-ups with the Phillies.
After all they have Doc and maybe Hamels has a Man crush on him like Lee seemed to.
Are $$$ stronger than the 3 Amigos ?
patrick – he got a contract when it was 4 surgeries, what does the 5th matter? RP’s don’t wait for minor league deals, there is always a team.
Chip December 13th, 2011 at 10:54 am
A very tough question. No idea what so ever. If I had to pick, a desperate team who has an injury in ST.
GB-I swear I’ve read something very similiar to that Jeter story before. Maybe they just repeat it every few years or something.
Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2011 at 11:01 am
I’ll bet any amount of money that Kuo gets a major league contract from someone. A 30 year old reliever one season removed from being completely dominant is not taking a minor league contract.
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So give him a major league contract. It’ll cost what – 1 mil? 1.5?
Who are you worried about losing – one of the guys they picked up during the Rule 5 draft? A healthy Kuo is a lot better than either one of them. And if Kuo doesn’t make it, so what? It’s not a lot of money to eat by releasing him or if he gets hurt – he goes on the 60 day DL like they did with Jeff Marquez last year.
Most you guys are falling right into line. Lookin’ for Bargain Basement\Zero Risk-High Reward deals. We are talkin’ about the NEW YORK YANKEES. Not the Houston Astros, NOT the San Diego Padres, or any other LOSING, nickel-and dime organization that operates onna shoestring. Conduct yourself and your line of thought accordingly. It’s getting downright embarassing.
– UP TO THE MINUTE YU DARVISH WAR ROOM BID PROPOSALS -
(1) NEW YORK YANKEES – $24,000,028
(2) TEXAS RANGERS – $18,000,001
(3) MIAMI MARLINS – $17,000,000
(4) BOSTON R\SOX -$15,000,005
Bret The Hitman December 13th, 2011 at 11:04 am
If the Yankees are worried about Hamels reaching the market, why not contact the Phillies and try to trade for Hamels?
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Why would a team that’s trying to win the World Series deal away one of their top three pitchers?
patrick – he got a contract when it was 4 surgeries, what does the 5th matter? RP’s don’t wait for minor league deals, there is always a team.
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We will see.
Chip – I don’t want to give him any contract. There was no reason to be attacked by the resident doucher, because he’s not taking a minor league deal.
Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2011 at 11:08 am
Chip – I don’t want to give him any contract. There was no reason to be attacked by the resident doucher, because he’s not taking a minor league deal.
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Fair enough.
You don’t want Kuo
I don’t want Kuroda
YankeesPR It was great to have the kids from @cschoolsNY at Yankee Stadium to present ideas for developing a sports franchise http://yfrog.com/kkgsvqnj
Chip – I wouldn’t be opposed to the Yankees signing Kuo, I just don’t think it’s that important. Not as important as having a 6th starter that is not Noesi.
In addition to Kuo there are (as I mentioned above) other non-tenders that I like
Joe Saunders (nice back of the rotation LHP)
Luke Scott (power bat who can back up in LF/RF and 1b)
those two and Kuo would be my top three targets
I want all the asian pitchers. Give me Kuo, Kuroda, Darvish
Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Chip – I wouldn’t be opposed to the Yankees signing Kuo, I just don’t think it’s that important. Not as important as having a 6th starter that is not Noesi.
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Okie dokie
YankeesPR Yankees annual holiday food drive tomorrow at the Stadium from10am-3pm
YankeesPR 30lbs of non-perishable food=voucher good for 2 Grandstand or Bleachers tix to select gms; bring to Gate 2
YankeesPR Joe Girardi there at approx 10 am and @RobinsonCano there between 11 and noon to accept donations
patrick – he got a contract when it was 4 surgeries, what does the 5th matter? RP’s don’t wait for minor league deals, there is always a team.
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ID, I don’t know how to tell you this, but don’t google ‘reliever minor-league deal’.
Patrick December 13th, 2011 at 11:15 am
I want all the asian pitchers. Give me Kuo, Kuroda, Darvish
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I’ll take Darvish and Kuo
Yankees likely will pass on all three.
I want at least 1 Cuban OF’er.
I’ll take Darvish and Kuo
Yankees likely will pass on all three.
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I don’t think so
Kuroda might pass on the Yankees but they wouldnt pass on him. They have tried to get him last offseason and this trade deadline.
jerkface – Wow, a google search that results in a bunch of crap relievers. That’s REALLY USEFUL, THANKS.
When was the last time an RP as good as Kuo took a minor league deal? Oh… Never.
9 ERA last year and now injured. I could prolly find a reliever that took a minor league deal like that.
Damn, Erin, you really are alone on this!
I will not watch a team that Luke Scott plays on.
Kuo had surgery this October to remove a loose body in the elbow. If it’s possible to sign a lefty reliever to a minor league deal, then do it. Supposedly he’ll be ready for spring training, IF he doesn’t decide to return first to Taiwan.
I thought that Jeff Keppinger might be a worthwhile player to look into until I saw that he’s not a super utility type anymore-played only 2B the last 2 years.
You think that Hamels will actually come to NY?
jerkface – I don’t care what you think you can find. One or two exceptions won’t make me back off of my statement. Kuo will get a major league contract. I have no doubts about that. Until he signs a minor league contract there is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.
From MLTR:
It’s possible that the Rangers may look to trade for another starting pitcher rather than spending big bucks on Darvish.
There budget might be tighter than expected.
They do have the farm to trade.
sorry Shame, work got in the way!
I would take Robbie for 10 years in a heart beat
I would even let him play for the Yankees!
Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2011 at 11:22 am
jerkface – Wow, a google search that results in a bunch of crap relievers. That’s REALLY USEFUL, THANKS.
When was the last time an RP as good as Kuo took a minor league deal? Oh… Never.
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Red Sox got a pretty good relief pitcher on a minor league deal last year: Aceves
Dontrelle Willis just signed a 1 year $1 mil deal with the Phillies – that’s a fair comparison for Kuo.
YT-
As we age most of us could profit from surgery to remove a “loose body”.
Just not one from the elbow.
It’s called liposuction.
Dontrelle Willis hasn’t been good for how many years now?
I don’t care what you think you can find. One or two exceptions won’t make me back off of my statement. Kuo will get a major league contract. I have no doubts about that. Until he signs a minor league contract there is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise.
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Ok but you’d take Kuo if he would come on a minor league deal right?
Mark Prior hardly ruined the Yankees plans last year…..Kuo wouldn’t either on a minor league deal and he’d have much more potential to actually help the team.
Saunders isn’t much if any better than what they have now……I think if the Yanks do something then its to make a significant upgrade …..otherwise they are better off as is.
GB7 just hates the idea of signing Kuo because he didn’t think of it first.
Rangers definitely need another pitcher but they actually don’t have a bad rotation as is. Feliz in particular is going to be an awesome starting pitcher. Holland and Ogando also have good upside.
I would take Noesi over Saunders.. it’s not even close. Joe Saunders is not very good
jerkface – there are not a lot of players i would turn away on a minor league deal. that has nothing to do with what i said originally or why you decided i don’t know how minor league deals work. i’ll assume your apology is in the mail.
Saunders being non-tendered makes me laugh deep in my belly. I thought he was a proven winner? lol…
Id,
This conversation came up with the stipulation that Kuo is signed on a minor league deal. Then you went off about the 40 man roster… do you see the problem here?
Because no one mentioned major league deal and then you are like ‘Durr who you wanna take off the 40 man?’ instead of just saying you don’t think Kuo would take a minor league deal and YOU believe it wouldnt be worth removing a rule 5 guy or someone. You were being cheeky, so I snapped you. I’ll assume your apology is on your blog.
^ funny.
Let’s see, the Yanks rotation Currently consists of CC, a Jenny Craig graduate, a bona fide Nut Job, a guy that needs absolute pin-point control to be successful, and a Bunch of maybes. And your Solution is to give Kuo an audition????????????
– CURRENT PROJECTED 2012 AL EAST STANDINGS -
(1) TAMPA BAY RAYS
(2) TORONTO BLUE JAYS
(3) NEW YORK YANKEES
(4) BOSTON RED SOX
(5) BALTIMORE O’S
Someone asked above about the coaching staff; during the winter meetings Joe Girardi announced that everyone was coming back.
Here’s the quotes on the Rangers :
“The Rangers are more focused on trading for a starter than signing Prince Fielder or bidding on Yu Darvish, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Here are the details on the Rangers…
•The Rangers appear to have less payroll flexibility than expected and are interested in trading for arms such as Matt Garza, Wade Davis and Gio Gonzalez. Texas did not make official offers to C.J. Wilson or Mark Buehrle before the southpaws signed elsewhere, Rosenthal and Morosi report.”
I would take Kuo on a major league deal if it were cheap enough, and get rid of the control-righty we got from the Nats. Or a minor league deal for a more expensive amount with an opt out by June 1st.
Then we just need to post for Darvish, Aoki, sign Kuroda, and relocate Scranton to Fukushima.
MTU-
Per Ken Rosenthal on the Rangers:
Once the Rangers add the salaries of their nine players who are eligible for arbitration, their payroll likely will surpass $105 million, according to projections by Cot’s Baseball Contracts and MLBTradeRumors.com. Their Opening Day payroll last season was $92.3 million.
The owners also are incurring other expenses, including a $30 million payment to former CEO Chuck Greenberg and $12 million in stadium improvements, according to The Dallas Morning News. The payment to Greenberg is due around the same time the Rangers would need to pay Darvish’s posting fee if they had the high bid for his negotiating rights, a source said.
Meanwhile, the Rangers’ reported new 20-year, $1.6 billion TV contract with FOX Sports Southwest does not start until 2015. The Angels’ reported new 20-year, $3 billion contract with FOX Sports West begins next season.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ter-121211
Shame Spencer December 13th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Damn, Erin, you really are alone on this!
****************
I figured I would be
MTU,
Did you see that this morning where the Rangers owe Greenberg a payment of 30 million right around the sams time as bids are due for Darvish? That coukd be like 80 million at once……tough to do
The conversation above has people talking about both minor and major league deals, go read it again.
Hahaha how in the heck does Greenberg get $30 million
I could do what he did and I’d only ask for $3 million.. what a joke
Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Dontrelle Willis hasn’t been good for how many years now?
————
Not many – but the Phillies are obviously looking at it as a low risk move. Just as signing Kuo would be for the Yankees.
First time Kuo is mentioned (other than Chip’s list of players) is by CB…
“They should really see if Kuo would take a non-roster invite/minor league deal.”
hmmmmmm
upstate kate December 13th, 2011 at 11:26 am
sorry Shame, work got in the way!
I would take Robbie for 10 years in a heart beat
I would even let him play for the Yankees!
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Ahahahahaha.. actually laughed out loud, thanks kate!
10 year deals lately have been pretty awful but lest we forget we got a pretty good one out of the Jeter deal…
patrick – Even if he does require a major league deal it won’t be for an insane amount of money and the upside if he’s right is huge.
HMMMMM
Come on man, I can read.
Towers is looking to resign Saunders and Micah Owings.
Like Owings who was offered to the Yankees as part of the package to get Randy Johnson back in Phoenix. The Yankees settled on Russ Ohlendorf instead, as well as Luis Vizcaino and attorney general Alberto Gonzalez.
Owings would be great off the bench-as a pinch hitter!
Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2011 at 11:34 am
The conversation above has people talking about both minor and major league deals, go read it again.
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Whether it is a minor league deal or a major league deal with a low base salary (as the Phillies gave Willis) it’s still a zero risk move for the Yankees.
Chip – yes, and my question about who would you drop from the 40 man applies pretty well i’d say…
You all need to relax.
“who would you drop from the 40 man ”
A rule 5 pick like jerkface said..
Blake/YT-
Doesn’t hurt my feelings any when we can deep six another potential competitior.
Yankee Trader December 13th, 2011 at 11:38 am
Towers is looking to resign Saunders and Micah Owings.
Like Owings who was offered to the Yankees as part of the package to get Randy Johnson back in Phoenix. The Yankees settled on Russ Ohlendorf instead, as well as Luis Vizcaino and attorney general Alberto Gonzalez.
Owings would be great off the bench-as a pinch hitter!
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Saunders was non-tendered because the two sides couldn’t agree on a 2 year deal. I like him as a back of the rotation option for the Yankees.
Heck – I would take Owings and convert him to an OF in the minors
Apparently a minor leaguer won an appeal after testing for elevated testosterone …..his case was that he drank the night before the test and that alcohol stops the metabolism of testosterone in the body……..so maybe Brauns defense will be that he was wasted the night before the test
Saunders was non-tendered because the two sides couldn’t agree on a 2 year deal. I like him as a back of the rotation option for the Yankees.
—
WHAT
You like Saunders but not Kuroda. WHAAAATTT
The Yankees already have like 10 starting pitchers that would out perform Saunders
patrick – isn’t that easier than the last 5 minutes of nonsense?
blake – IIRC, Brauns problem is the testosterone was not from his body, not that he had too much of it.
Irreverent Discourse December 13th, 2011 at 11:39 am
Chip – yes, and my question about who would you drop from the 40 man applies pretty well i’d say…
You all need to relax.
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I’m quite relaxed.
I answered that question already – one of the two Rule 5 guys could be easily dropped. Or, since he’s going to be out all season anyway – cut Pedro Feliciano.
patrick – isn’t that easier than the last 5 minutes of nonsense?
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Sure! I’m not the one fighting with you so im not sending apologies via fed ex or whatever
It would be kinda funny if the Yanks went full Japan mode and signed Darvish, Kuroda, Kuo, Nagasaki……..bring back Godzilla too!
Yankee Trader December 13th, 2011 at 8:20 am
Teams “rumored” from different sources to be interested in competing for Yu Darvish. Why they might not be serious suitors:
Rangers-read the Rosenthal article above.
Red Sox-will go over the luxury tax threshold which they want to avoid, and still interested in signing a closer-Madson.
Angels-could be a smoke screen but GM has stated they are happy with their SP
Marlins-Already spent more than expected and are “praying” that they will fill the new stadium to pay for their players.
Blue Jays and Nationals-Might be in it-but to win it??
And then there is the Yankees-Will they be in it, and will they essentially be bidding against themselves?
Any others that you have heard rumored to be willing to bid big bucks??
I added the Seattle Mariners who might then trade some of their younger pitchers, not named Felix Hernandez, for hitting.
Just thought i should share since we all have interests in both players.
This youtube video shows Nakajima hitting game deciding 3 run HR off Darvish in this year’s opener on 4/12.
One of few homers he allowed this year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ata_player
“blake – IIRC, Brauns problem is the testosterone was not from his body, not that he had too much of it.”
He tested for twice as much as anyone ever had…….my understanding was that they measured it as synthetic because of the “age” of it…..not because of its composition …maybe that’s incorrect.
Patrick December 13th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Saunders was non-tendered because the two sides couldn’t agree on a 2 year deal. I like him as a back of the rotation option for the Yankees.
—
WHAT
You like Saunders but not Kuroda. WHAAAATTT
The Yankees already have like 10 starting pitchers that would out perform Saunders
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If I could get Kuroda for what it would cost to get Saunders I would be all for it. But that’s not the case.
Saunders = low risk/moderate reward
Kuroda = high risk/moderate reward
Blake-
Matsui wearing Dodger Blue?
According to Sponichi, Hideki Matsui could meet with the LA Dodgers as early as 12/12 (or 12/13 in Japan). They also mention an ESPN blog post by Jon Weisman from 12/10. A snip:
Earlier this week, Tony Jackson of ESPNLosAngeles.com reported that the Dodgers are considering the addition of a free-agent left-handed pinch-hitter. Today, Jackson told me via e-mail he has learned that there are at least three people on the Dodgers’ list and one of them is Hideki Matsui.
If I could get Kuroda for what it would cost to get Saunders I would be all for it. But that’s not the case.
Saunders = low risk/moderate reward
Kuroda = high risk/moderate reward
—
This is even more insane
Saunders = low risk / very low reward
Kuroda = low to moderate risk / moderate to high reward
I would be shocked if Saunders pitches under a 5.50 ERA in the AL east.
Garcia, Hughes, Burnett, Sabathia, Noesi, Nova, Chamberlain, Banuelos all currently better starting pitchers than Saunders
Sabathia …. .. .. better than Kuroda
Saunders fills no need, Kuroda does
MarianoRivera With the kids from HOPE in New Rochelle @Clubhouse42 – http://pic.twitter.com/tuk9k7AM
No thank you on “pitch to contact” Joe Saunders,
Short video today on Saunders from MLB.com and list non tendered players:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb
blake – I can’t really find anything about how the test was triggered beyond this.
Every individual naturally produces testosterone and a substance called epitestosterone, typically at a ratio of 1-to-1. In Major League Baseball, if the ratio comes in at 4-to-1 or higher during testing, a player is deemed to have tested positive. The sources did not indicate how high above the threshold Braun’s sample tested.
To affirm the results and strengthen its case, MLB asked the World Anti-Doping Agency lab in Montreal, which conducts its testing, to perform a secondary test to determine whether the testosterone spike resulted from natural variations within Braun’s body or from an artificial source. The test indicated the testosterone was exogenous, meaning it came from outside his body.
New Post: The Yankees roster as it is today
Andruw Jones (who I want the Yanks to re-sign for another year and say $3M base which should do it and he’s worth) has 420 career homeruns and is only 34 years old.
If he plays six more years and reaches 500 homeruns, is he a Hall Of Famer? I say yes because I’ve never heard his name tied to steroids and he’d have reached 500 HR basically being a #4 OF the last decade or so of his career (assuming he smacks only 12-15 HR a year 2012-18.) Also he was a top player at his position for half a decade (five Gold Gloves.) 500 HR is still 25 HR a year for two decades no matter what anyone says, an hold they alot more weight than 500 or more HR where steroids contributed to that total.
I say yes because I’ve never heard his name tied to steroids
HOF? Yes.
Clean? I say no, because the decline in his career is very obviously tied to the MLB drug testing program.