Catch Cano and Jeter on television tonight
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 14, 2011 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
I know everyone is camped out at home, having secured bottles of water and plenty of candles, ready to wait indoors until the Yu Darvish winner is announced. While you’re waiting, turn on the television.
Derek Jeter is going to be featured tonight on ABC, named one of the “Most Fascinating People of the Year.” You can watch that tonight at 9:30 p.m. ET.
Before that, turn to YES Network at 8 p.m. ET to see Yankees Access featuring Robinson Cano. Jack Curry profiles Cano’s trip to Taiwan, showing the incredible reception both Robinson and his father — who played professionally in Taiwan — receiving during this winter’s exhibition series.
Just a quick report –
noticed that Olney is now saying that the NYY did in fact bid on Yu. Really glad to hear – wonder if a lot of the other ‘no bid’ stories will turn out to be wrong.
Um, just to be clear, I guess it’s just me misreading Olney’s earlier message – I though he had said that they did not post a bid, but I guess he never said that? Sorry if I confused anyone with my other comment.
White smoke means the Yankees got Yu.
Black smoke means they’re negotiating with Joe Saunders.
Yes, Yu have no bananas.
the nationals have been flashing money at everyone for a couple of years but can’t seem to get anyone to take it, thus my prediction that they will win the bidding. I figure that they will look at this as a situation where the player can’t take another team’s money and leave them flat. jmo…
“Derek, tell us about these baseballs you sign. They sound fascinating.”
Brown smoke means AJ again
Green smoke means we just traded for Timmy Linc.
Ys Guy December 14th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
did rab actually post that the yankees didnt submit a bid?
===============
No…..http://riveraveblues.com/
Jeff Passan JeffPassan
@
Fighters planned to accept Darvish posting bid no matter its size. DKnobler reporting it’s big. Just how big is the question. Daisuke big?
Yu Know Who Big?
i dont know what the purple smoke means, but it’s groooovy man!!!!!
If they are accepting the bid WTH is the hold up???
Waldstein from the NYT says rumor is Jays bid $60M.
What does pink smoke mean ?
Yu never know what the custom is, do they call the player and tell him, do they let mlb announce the winner, is there a press conference, it’ll come out soon.
if the jays bid $60M, I guess he’s going to canada…
Pink smoke means the Ham and the Ham Fighters have reached a truce.
If the winning bid is less than 60 and the Yankees weren’t #1 then they dumb. If its over 60 and they didn’t win then thats how the cookie crumbles.
BryanHoch RT @DavidWaldstein: Yanks made a bid on Darvish. I hear it was not huge, so don’t expect them to win. The bid came in final 2 hours. 4 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Yankees met today to discuss Yu and placed their bid in the closing hour.
pat December 14th, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Waldstein from the NYT says rumor is Jays bid $60M.
=============
That should be interesting with reports saying he wants to play on or near the West Coast. Toronto in Easterm Canada no less. That would be quite the change for the Yuster.
Yankees met today to discuss who?
The Yankees waited until today to discuss Darvish and their bid strategy?
Yu thought he was getting to play in the US!
toronto is blowing up and canada is doing very well these days. On top of that he would have only 2 choices, hokkaido or toronto, i think we all know where he’d end up if that were the case.
‘If the winning bid is less than 60 and the Yankees weren’t #1 then they dumb’
===============
Says who ? You or Hal ?
60 million is ridiculous. The Jays have no business bidding that much, if true.
pat, he will be playing in the u.s. 81 times a year
Vous?
If the Jays bid 60 million then first….that’s crazy….and 2nd it could just be a block move …..would Darvish go to Canada and would the Jays invest over 120 million on him total?
If the Blue Jays won I could see him staying.
I’d rather pitch in Japan than Canada.
I coukd definitely see AA saying…..you know….he may not come here if we win the bid…..bit of we drop a huge number then the Yankees and Red Sox don’t get him either.
whats the era exchange rate between canada and japan?
Says who ? You or Hal ?
–
If the bid isn’t extraordinary (and I think the same as matsuzaka or less is not) then the Yankees should win the posting,because its a chance to acquire a premium under 27 talent for just money and a guy they’ve scouted for 2 years that has beasted an AAAA league harder than any MLB minor leaguer has beasted AAA. With the new CBA they should be trying to get contracts that help them keep a low luxury tax applicable payroll so they get their revenue sharing back and it will be impossible to acquire an MLB talent as good as Darvish for the price he will require.
So basically, unless 1 team blows away the field with a 60+ million bid then the Yankees are really dumb for losing. If they put in a ‘whatever’ bid then its even stupider because why bid if you’re planning on winning? They should be in it to win it.
Saw this on twitter earlier. You should be forced to offer a contract of at least your bid.
YankeesWFAN
Gigantic, GIGANTIC blunder by the Blue Jays: Mixed up the fax number, mistakenly submitted a bid for Norichika Aoki instead of Yu Darvish. Something lost in translation?
If the Jays or any other team, threw out a large bid just to block with no intention of offering a serious contract, that is extremely damaging to relations between MLB and the Japanese league. The winning team should be forced to pay the bid amount in that case.
Tom in NJ,
That’s pretty funny! Vous one funny guy!
blake,
I doubt anybody’s going to put in a blocking bid that high. There’s too much pressure to come to a deal. The Red Sox & Matsuzaka played chicken until the last possible moment.
Hopefully the Yankees put in a reasonable bid. And no, $60M is not reasonable.
‘They should be in it to win it’.
==================
Not if Hal & Co. decided to stick to their so called budget and don’t want to add significant payroll obligations leading up to 2014 and the 50% tax they will get nailed with.
Maybe the Jays think he wont come to Canada…..or maybe theyhave would plan on offering a contract that’s reasonable but not a big deal. There are advantages to just winning the posting……you have to deal in good faith but you don’t have to go crazy to sign him if he wont accept something you’re comfortable with.
Toronto is a great city. Yu would never pitch in bad weather there. He’d miss the winter completely. It’s not a great park, but so what. The only hangup is the salary. Yu will insist on more than the posting fee. I bet he’d ask 5@15 per.
That said, I hope the rumor is wrong
blake December 14th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
I coukd definitely see AA saying…..you know….he may not come here if we win the bid…..bit of we drop a huge number then the Yankees and Red Sox don’t get him either.
—
This is what I’ve been thinking, if the Jays submitted a huge bid. If they then only offer something like 5/30 contract, then other teams should start complaining that the bid was not in good faith and negotiations should go to the next highest bidder.
“If they then only offer something like 5/30 contract, then other teams should start complaining that the bid was not in good faith and negotiations should go to the next highest bidder.”
Its the commissioners call……my guess is they’ll use the Dice K deal as a comp and probably require something in that range…….
Not if Hal & Co. decided to stick to their so called budget and don’t want to add significant payroll obligations leading up to 2014 and the 50% tax they will get nailed with.
–
First of all, adding Darvish isn’t a significant payroll obligation and will actually help them mitigate the payroll because the value of his contract won’t be as high as an equal pitcher. And if they wanted to stick to a budget they shouldnt bid at all.
a guy they’ve scouted for 2 years that has beasted an AAAA league harder than any MLB minor leaguer has beasted AAA.
=============================
AAAA league? What does that mean? How do we know that Japanese baseball is a cut above Amercian Triple-A ball?
And there has never been anybody similarly dominant in AAA? Do we really know that?
I’m curious about your answers to the above questions. However, the bottom line is that if the Yanks don’t bid on Darvish, it doesn’t mean that they are dumb. It simply means that they are risk averse. And $60 million isn’t “just money”; it’s twice as much as their operating income in 2010, according to Forbes. It is a significant sum.
Jon Heyman JonHeymanCBS
@
word is, yankees entered only a modest bid for darvish. not likely to get. indications are winning bid is sky-high
A “modest bid” sounds reasonable. My seasons ticket price is up 66% the past two years so freddie garcia and go to sleep for the winter makes total sense.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
Not if Hal & Co. decided to stick to their so called budget and don’t want to add significant payroll obligations leading up to 2014 and the 50% tax they will get nailed with.
–
First of all, adding Darvish isn’t a significant payroll obligation and will actually help them mitigate the payroll because the value of his contract won’t be as high as an equal pitcher. And if they wanted to stick to a budget they shouldnt bid at all.
=============
Some agents are projecting $16 miilion per year for five years to sign this guy. This is a significant payroll obligation. I don’t see how you can deny that.
blake December 14th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Jon Heyman JonHeymanCBS
@
word is, yankees entered only a modest bid for darvish. not likely to get. indications are winning bid is sky-high
——————
I’m surprised that the winning bid would be as high as the bid for Matsuzaka. I’ll be relieved if the Yanks didn’t shoot themselves in the foot by winning with a ridiculous bid.
Some agents are projecting $16 miilion per year for five years to sign this guy.
===========================
Probably a tough number to hit for a guy with minimal leverage.
I’d guess it ends up more in the $12M-$13M range. Still pretty significant though.
AAAA league? What does that mean? How do we know that Japanese baseball is a cut above Amercian Triple-A ball?
And there has never been anybody similarly dominant in AAA? Do we really know that?
–
The NPB’s ‘league factor’ is higher than AAA. It makes sense because the NPB is full of professional players AND AAAA players that could not make it in the MLB but were too good for AAA. The cuban league is regarded as Low A->High A quality, NPB as AAAA quality.
And no, no one has spent 5 years in AAA with an ERA under 2.
Maybe they should reverse the process.
Darvish says he won’t pay for anything less than $16M/5 years. How much are you willing to bid to win THAT package?
Of course the Japanese club loses out, but boo hoo.
“I’m surprised that the winning bid would be as high as the bid for Matsuzaka. I’ll be relieved if the Yanks didn’t shoot themselves in the foot by winning with a ridiculous bid.”
We don’t know what it is yet…….but i’ve been saying g for two days that prices don’t go backwards in baseball……because they just rarely do.
This is a significant payroll obligation. I don’t see how you can deny that.
–
Your made up number is a significant payroll obligation? I guess. Total cost will be around Matsuzaka’s contract. Which is going to be between 10 mil per year and 12 mil per year. Not significant for the talent.
The Yankees arent going to go and sign Cole Hamels if they want to keep a budget, Darvish gets them a better pitcher than AJ burnett for much less than AJ Burnett price.
blake December 14th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
“If they then only offer something like 5/30 contract, then other teams should start complaining that the bid was not in good faith and negotiations should go to the next highest bidder.”
Its the commissioners call……my guess is they’ll use the Dice K deal as a comp and probably require something in that range…….
===============
Dice-K’s deal occurred in 2004, before the financial meltdown. Everybody has been retrenching on an economy-wide basis. I don’t see how Dice-K’s deal should set the standard. Still, it’s no harm, no foul in my book if the second-highest bidder is allowed to negotiate with him after the negotiations fall through with the first bidder.
If the Yankees don’t win this bid, I just don’t get their logic. I mean obviously they know more than the average fan and it’s not our money, but I don’t get why they wouldn’t bid to win it. There really isn’t going to be an impact starting pitcher on the market in the next couple of years. I don’t get the infatuation w/ Cole Hamels. Justin Verlander or Felix Hernandez won’t be free agents. The Dodgers will probably look to lock up Kershaw. Same with the Giants and Lincecum and Cain. So I don’t get who are they exactly waiting for?
All the positions on the field are pretty much locked. Matt Kemp isn’t coming here, Swisher comes off the books next year. So is Russell and Mariano, and Garcia. So with that said, the payroll won’t increase that much by signing Yu. Signing him wouldn’t even block the kids like Banuelos or Betances, so what is the big deal? If he doesn’t pan out then so be it. It happens all the time in sports, and the Yankees are a franchise that can recover from that.
If this guy turns out to be the real deal and the Yanks didn’t take him seriously, then that’s really disappointing.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
Give Hal a call tomorrow and discuss how you disagree on how they spend their money. Don’t forget the part about them being stupid if they weren’t ‘in it to win it’. Maybe you can get a pair of free bleacher seats for sharing your opinion with him.
Here is the number: (718) 293-4300 9am to 5pm
The economy has had little or no effect on baseball salaries…(see Jason Werth, Carl Crawford, Cliff Lee, Albert Pujols etc).
There was a lull there after the 09 season where prices we’re down……but the last two seasons they’ve been as high or higher than ever.
Dice-K’s deal occurred in 2004, before the financial meltdown. Everybody has been retrenching on an economy-wide basis.
——-
MLB GMs and owners apparently didn’t get this message.
Give Hal a call tomorrow and discuss how you disagree on how they spend their money. Don’t forget the part about them being stupid if they weren’t ‘in it to win it’.
–
Putting in a bid you don’t expect to win with is stupid. In a blind auction. For a good player. Not sure what your angle is here.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
This is a significant payroll obligation. I don’t see how you can deny that.
–
Your made up number is a significant payroll obligation? I guess. Total cost will be around Matsuzaka’s contract. Which is going to be between 10 mil per year and 12 mil per year. Not significant for the talent.
The Yankees arent going to go and sign Cole Hamels if they want to keep a budget, Darvish gets them a better pitcher than AJ burnett for much less than AJ Burnett price.
===============
I didn’t make it up,. smart ass. It came from a poll of a poll of agents (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....tract.html). In any event, $10 to 12 million for a number of years (say, 5 years) + another $60 million on top of that for a rookie is significant.
The Yankees advantage is spending money that isn’t capped/taxed. Posting system, IFA, Draft should have been areas they crushed. With the new CBA they are now neutered on IFA and Draft, so they should be going after 1 of the cuban outfielders on a minor league deal (maybe split contract) and posting for Darvish.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
Give Hal a call tomorrow and discuss how you disagree on how they spend their money. Don’t forget the part about them being stupid if they weren’t ‘in it to win it’.
–
Putting in a bid you don’t expect to win with is stupid. In a blind auction. For a good player. Not sure what your angle is here.
============
It makes sense for the same reason that buying a lottery ticket makes sense. And it makes sense to bid at what you value the item in question, regardless of what the market value is, on the hope that you get lucky.
In any event, $10 to 12 million for a number of years (say, 5 years) + another $60 million on top of that for a rookie is significant
–
In any event, no its not, because the posting fee does not affect the luxury tax. That is why they should bid to win! Because they arent going to get a pitcher of Darvish’s talents for the price that he is available at. The posting fee is only significant to the Yankees internal budgets (which is a crock because they make so much money), it is INSIGNIFICANT to the luxury tax threshold which they want to avoid.
This is the whole point of why they get him!
Every free agent in the new CBA has to be measured against the potential loss of revenue sharing and luxury tax penalties that they might incur. Darvish is virtually free from those restrictions because the posting fee does not count.
It seems that The NY Yankees don’t share the same opinion as some here on the value of Yu Darvish, well not for the 100-120 million it’s gong to cost to get him in a MLB uni……Coal in the stocking for a few here…..
JeffMooradMemosNot Jeff Moorad
We bid just over $50 million on Yu Darvish. Unfortunately, if we win he will be the only San Diego Padre in 2012.
jenna, you seem to be assuming that the yankees won’t have to pay to replace mo and swisher. Also, hammels is that good, i used to live in philly and watched him alot, and he is very good. also did you consider that staying over the luxury tax threshold is going to be much more expensive after 2014?
It makes sense for the same reason that buying a lottery ticket makes sense
–
Any MLB team employing a ‘lotto ticket strategy’ is stupid.
Pat M. December 14th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
It seems that The NY Yankees don’t share the same opinion as some here on the value of Yu Darvish, well not for the 100-120 million it’s gong to cost to get him in a MLB uni……Coal in the stocking for a few here…..
____________________________________________________________________________
Might be coal for everyone, back to the crumbs left on the table if your right.
blake December 14th, 2011 at 8:18 pm
“I’m surprised that the winning bid would be as high as the bid for Matsuzaka. I’ll be relieved if the Yanks didn’t shoot themselves in the foot by winning with a ridiculous bid.”
We don’t know what it is yet…….but i’ve been saying g for two days that prices don’t go backwards in baseball……because they just rarely do.
=========
Wilson signed for $77 million–less than Burnett and less than Lackey.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:26 pm
The Yankees advantage is spending money that isn’t capped/taxed. Posting system, IFA, Draft should have been areas they crushed. With the new CBA they are now neutered on IFA and Draft, so they should be going after 1 of the cuban outfielders on a minor league deal (maybe split contract) and posting for Darvish.
———
Yeah, I don’t like this new wind blowing..
Carlo December 14th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
A “modest bid” sounds reasonable. My seasons ticket price is up 66% the past two years so freddie garcia and go to sleep for the winter makes total sense.
———–
So stop buying tickets. Problem solved.
How do you know Darvish will perform better than Garcia?
They would have to spend a lot of cheddar for anyone, much less someone who has never pitched at the major league level.
jerk, foget the posting fee, $15 M or so is a very significant amount. I know you want him more than life itself, by dismissing a $15M salary hit as not significant is rediculous.
“Wilson signed for $77 million–less than Burnett and less than Lackey.”
He was offered 96 by the Marlins….he took a hometown discount.
How do you know Darvish will perform better than Garcia?
–
His 95 mph fastball, 94 mph 2seam, and wicked slider. Also his intangibles, which if my meter is reading correctly are jeterian.
jerk, foget the posting fee, $15 M or so is a very significant amount. I know you want him more than life itself, by dismissing a $15M salary hit as not significant is rediculous.
–
He won’t cost 15 mil per year, book it.
He won’t cost 15 mil per year, book it
===========================
He won’t. But he won’t cost Matsuzaka money either. He gets that staying in Japan.
Carlo December 14th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
A “modest bid” sounds reasonable. My seasons ticket price is up 66% the past two years so freddie garcia and go to sleep for the winter makes total sense.
*********
The plan is patience.
Latest comments added to the other updates:
•The Yankees’ bid is modest, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (on Twitter). Indications are the winning bid is “sky high.”
•Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports reports (on Twitter) that the Fighters plan to accept the posting bid no matter how large it is.
•The Nippon Ham Fighters were very excited by how large the high bid was according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com (on Twitter). Still no word on the the money, though.
If you were the Yankees wouldn’t you leak to all the MLB’s “sources” that their bid would be, or is “modest”? I don’t buy it until it’s announced. The fact that Teixeira is a Yankee should give everyone pause.
His 95 mph fastball, 94 mph 2seam, and wicked slider. Also his intangibles, which if my meter is reading correctly are jeterian.
____________________________
What?? No gyroball too?
He gets that staying in Japan.
–
He won’t make Matsuzaka’s total contract staying in Japan.
“Also his intangibles, which if my meter is reading correctly are jeterian.”
Your meter must have been broken during the Jeter negotiations.
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Carlo December 14th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
A “modest bid” sounds reasonable. My seasons ticket price is up 66% the past two years so freddie garcia and go to sleep for the winter makes total sense.
*********
The plan is patience.
____________________________________________________________________________
That was last years plan, I hope it’s not this years plan again.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:28 pm
In any event, $10 to 12 million for a number of years (say, 5 years) + another $60 million on top of that for a rookie is significant
–
In any event, no its not, because the posting fee does not affect the luxury tax. That is why they should bid to win! Because they arent going to get a pitcher of Darvish’s talents for the price that he is available at. The posting fee is only significant to the Yankees internal budgets (which is a crock because they make so much money), it is INSIGNIFICANT to the luxury tax threshold which they want to avoid.
This is the whole point of why they get him!
Every free agent in the new CBA has to be measured against the potential loss of revenue sharing and luxury tax penalties that they might incur. Darvish is virtually free from those restrictions because the posting fee does not count.
=================
I see. So, the Yankees can spend a bazillion dollars on the bid because it doesn’t count against the luxury tax? That dopesn’t make any sense. The luxury tax isn’t the only constraint here. And the luxury tax will apply against Darvish’s salary, which could go from $10 to $12 million (according to you), to an effective salary of $15 to $18 million.
Side note: out of curiosity, how many times have you seen Darvish pitch?
What?? No gyroball too?
–
He has a 4-seam, 2-seam, cutter, slider, change, shuuto, curve.
Pretty standard repertoire and if I were a MLB team I’d have him focus on fastball-slider, as his slider is his best breaking pitch and his fastballs are all really good. He uses his slider the most anyways.
Prete Funk Era December 14th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
If you were the Yankees wouldn’t you leak to all the MLB’s “sources” that their bid would be, or is “modest”? I don’t buy it until it’s announced. The fact that Teixeira is a Yankee should give everyone pause.
——–
What would the point of that?
All bids have been made and can’t be changed now. We’re all going to know what they did in a matter of days, maybe hours.
LA CLippers are still the dark horse here.
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Carlo December 14th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
A “modest bid” sounds reasonable. My seasons ticket price is up 66% the past two years so freddie garcia and go to sleep for the winter makes total sense.
*********
The plan is patience.
____________________________________________________________________________
That was last years plan, I hope it’s not this years plan again.
*********
Translation: There is no plan.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
It makes sense for the same reason that buying a lottery ticket makes sense
–
Any MLB team employing a ‘lotto ticket strategy’ is stupid.
——————
Way to mis-characterize what I said. You can keep calling people stupid if you like, but it doesn’t make your case any stronger.
i dont believe any of these guys about what the yankees did. i think most of the time the info they get comes from agents but in this case, only top end officials really know what the bid is going to be, not negotiators, lawyers, agents, players, etc.
•The Yankees’ bid is modest, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (on Twitter). Indications are the winning bid is “sky high.”
____________________________________________________________________________
What exactly does modest mean? I still can’t believe that the Yanks put a bid in that they didn’t believe would win. Modest doesn’t convey that notion, maybe something like a very strong bid sounds a bit more like the Yankees. If they lowballed a bid then this team is moving backwards from the core values George brought to the Yankees to again lead them to success.
Side note: out of curiosity, how many times have you seen Darvish pitch?
–
10 times live/japanese tv, and streaming from the japanese playoffs this year.
Bret wants the Yanks to be run like Al Davis ran the Oakland Raiders the last two decades.
Just acquire the big names and overspend like mad for an underachiever year after year.
i dont agree, they may well have put in a ‘modest’ bid to ensure that nobody got him for a rock bottom price. I’m sure the Yankees have a # in their head for what the whole thing would cost, probably more than they wanted to go, but put in a bid that represented the value they saw in him even though they knew it was probably going to be topped. Its not stupid, its good buisness, this is a blind process, so you bid what you think he’s worth even if you suspect that others are going higher.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
AAAA league? What does that mean? How do we know that Japanese baseball is a cut above Amercian Triple-A ball?
And there has never been anybody similarly dominant in AAA? Do we really know that?
–
The NPB’s ‘league factor’ is higher than AAA. It makes sense because the NPB is full of professional players AND AAAA players that could not make it in the MLB but were too good for AAA. The cuban league is regarded as Low A->High A quality, NPB as AAAA quality.
============
I missed this before what is a league factor? How are they calculated?
Giuseppe Franco December 14th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
Bret wants the Yanks to be run like Al Davis ran the Oakland Raiders the last two decades.
Just acquire the big names and overspend like mad for an underachiever year after year.
____________________________________________________________________________
I think we are already there, we have the big names and alot of them are underachieving already.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
No angle at all. The NYY put in their bid based on how they see the whole scenario playing out. Because some think they need to sign every superstar and top prospect doesn’t mean they will. If they don’t win the bid so what ? Who gives a sh*t ?
Same thing as Cashman not running around with an open checkbook chasing every high priced FA, they have a plan. Noesi, Banuelos, Betances etc. will be just fine filling out what SP need they may have going forward. Probably why Cashman hasn’t given in to ridiculous trade offers for these guys either.
Noesi, Banuelos, Betances etc
–
Congrats, you just names 3 pitchers that won’t be able to touch 200 innings in the majors next year! Noesi needs to start in the minors for a whole year, Betances and Banuelos in AAA again.
I too submitted a bid on Darvish – but I am not optImistic. The Burn.RT@JonHeymanCBS
2 mins ago
I give it less than 50% that the Yanks win this bid. My guess is the Jays.
YankeeSource Yankees
And now there’s rumors that Rangers didn’t bid as high as expected. #igiveup. Incarcerated Bob here I come!
14 minutes ago
i agre at the very least the contract the winning team offers should have to at least match the bid. Jays woud have definitely blocked the Yankees just to block them, knowing they wont get him…..
agree
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Noesi, Banuelos, Betances etc
–
Congrats, you just names 3 pitchers that won’t be able to touch 200 innings in the majors next year! Noesi needs to start in the minors for a whole year, Betances and Banuelos in AAA again.
____________________________________________________________________________
On top of that I love how people just assume success. Half the posts diss Yu for not being able to not be successful pitching over here, but this post elevates three people with no proven track record either already to the sure thing. I never knew the Yanks to have a plan about winning next year as their focus has been to win this year.
Source: Kim Kardashian has won the bid for Yu Darvish. #pooryu
Noesi has shown the ability to pitch in the majors….
We’ll see over 200 innings but you can at least go based on his work in 2011…
Ys guy, not saying they won’t have to pay for them, but who’s to say that if Mo does decide to retire that D-rob can’t take his place as the new closer or someone within the system? Or who’s to say the Yanks can’t find a cheap and better alternative to replace Swisher in the system as well? No one thought Gardner would be so effective, and look, we wound up avoiding going after Damon, Crawford, etc.to cover LF.
I do believe Hamels is a good pitcher, I mean his numbers do back it up, I just don’t really like his make up IMO I don’t think he would work out here.
And yeah the luxury tax threshold might just be more expensive in the next couple of years, but most of the Yankees roster is being replaced with homegrown talent as the years go by. I mean correct me if I’m wrong but the only big contracts that will still be on the payroll by then is of CC, Alex and Tex right Idk I don’t see their payroll being too high in the next couple of years and I think it’s a risk they can take.
•The Marlins did not bid on Darvish, according to Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald (on Twitter).
•The Mets didn’t place a bid, Howard Megdal of the Journal News reports.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
I never said NEXT YEAR, don’t twist things to fit your agenda. Cashman has said numerous times that Noesi is in Winter Ball to accumulate more innings in anticipation of him becoming a SP, could be this tear or next. NYY have 5 SP now with several in the wings. They are following THEIR plan, not your alternative.
The Yankees basically messed up Noesi’s chance of being Ivan Nova 2.0 next year by jerking him around in the bullpen for the entire season. Hughes and Noesi only pitched ~90 innings last year. Betances only 130 and he still has a lot of work to do. Banuelos only 130 as well. They are not ready to break out onto the big league scene.
They will get another pitcher. I was hoping it’d be Darvish as he represents the best upside+future cost savings potential, but Kuroda on a 1 year deal would be fine as well.
Athletes will try anything to get an edge…..
Chris Dickerson It’s not as fun as it looks! http://pic.twitter.com/2clox2YX
Cosmo December 14th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
I never said NEXT YEAR, don’t twist things to fit your agenda. Cashman has said numerous times that Noesi is in Winter Ball to accumulate more innings in anticipation of him becoming a SP, could be this tear or next. NYY have 5 SP now with several in the wings. They are following THEIR plan, not your alternative.
____________________________________________________________________________
Lets see CC, AJ, Phil, Freddie and who?
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
rumor is, at least 1 darvish bid was “sky” high. may have been “north” of $50M. again, unconfirmed.
45 seconds ago
rumor is that none of these guys have a clue
Forgot Nova sorry
At the moment the Yankees have a front 5 of CC, Nova, Garcia, Hughes and AJ. Betances, Noesi, and Banuelos would be late season additions (if that) for the stretch run and maybe paced for an August/Sept call up and playoff run. This rotation (sans Colon) did a good enough job to get the Yankees the division. Would I like Darvish? Sure… but with a price tag of over $100 mil, (like AJ) fans would expect nothing less than CC type success. No Japanese pitcher has been able to maintain that kind of success here… ever. Given the boat load of crap Matz goes through from Boston fans as well as the slew of Igawa jokes here, is he really worth it? Dunno. The question is – is he worth $100+ mil to find out?
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 8:54 pm
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Noesi, Banuelos, Betances etc
–
Congrats, you just names 3 pitchers that won’t be able to touch 200 innings in the majors next year! Noesi needs to start in the minors for a whole year, Betances and Banuelos in AAA again.
____________________________________________________________________________
On top of that I love how people just assume success. Half the posts diss Yu for not being able to not be successful pitching over here, but this post elevates three people with no proven track record either already to the sure thing. I never knew the Yanks to have a plan about winning next year as their focus has been to win this year.
======================
None of them are sure things. However, Noesi, Banuelos, and Betances all together won’t won’t cost $100 million. That’s the difference. The odds of at least one of them panning out are probably as good as the odds of Darvish panning out.
I get it if the Darvish overall was 100+ all in. Sort of. But looking at other options if they sign a middle of the road guy, let’s say Edwin Jackson for like 40-50 and then what they gave out to Soriano last year, then was that a great tradeoff rather than just giving Darvish the cash? End of day, if they go into next season not doing much, they better be ridiculosly confident that Banuelos or Betcances is ready for the big time next season because the staff cannot be trusted to stay healthy, have everyone with their track records pitch to peak perfromances and still hope to win a playoff series. And I would rather keep Banuelos and others rather than pick up a Garza or Danks and have to pay them slightly less on top of it.
LOL at someone actually having to tweet the Mets did not submit a bid. The Mets are taking out loans just pay their light bills – the bid is going to probably just as much as their payroll in another year or two.
Phranchise December 14th, 2011 at 9:00 pm
I get it if the Darvish overall was 100+ all in. Sort of. But looking at other options if they sign a middle of the road guy, let’s say Edwin Jackson for like 40-50 and then what they gave out to Soriano last year, then was that a great tradeoff rather than just giving Darvish the cash? End of day, if they go into next season not doing much, they better be ridiculosly confident that Banuelos or Betcances is ready for the big time next season because the staff cannot be trusted to stay healthy, have everyone with their track records pitch to peak perfromances and still hope to win a playoff series. And I would rather keep Banuelos and others rather than pick up a Garza or Danks and have to pay them slightly less on top of it.
=================
Kuroda for 1 year at $12 million seems like a much better deal than Jackson, IMO.
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Forgot Nova sorry.
=============
NP. Glad I scrolled down before posting.
CC is CC
Nova may or may not be Nova of last year – softmore slumps we have seen (Hughes)
Hughes – 2011 or 2010 version
Garcia – was a nice find, but are you confident again
AJ- no comment
Noesi – Looks very Aceves like to me, I think a nice fifth starter, but who knows. 200 innings or even close doubt it.
Doesn’t inspire a ton of confidence does it?
None of them are sure things. However, Noesi, Banuelos, and Betances all together won’t won’t cost $100 million. That’s the difference. The odds of at least one of them panning out are probably as good as the odds of Darvish panning out.
____________________________________________________________________________
I’d agree with you, one probably will plan out. Right now of the Kennedy, Joba, Phil trio the one that appears to have panned out is playing for a different ball club, but he was a success after a number of years.
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 8:47 pm
I think we are already there, we have the big names and alot of them are underachieving already.
———
Consistent underachievers don’t make the playoffs every year.
They did finish with the best record in the AL last season.
The plan is patience. It’s unfolding before your eyes.
Darvish is the only pitching prospect available to the Yankees that is ready to pitch 200 innings with a bunch of finished pitches that he can command. He is going into his prime. That is why you get Darvish.
He won’t push Banuelos or Betances out of the rotation, he will anchor it for them.
‘None of them are sure things. However, Noesi, Banuelos, and Betances all together won’t won’t cost $100 million. That’s the difference. The odds of at least one of them panning out are probably as good as the odds of Darvish panning out.’
================
Well put.
@JonHeymanCBS rumor is, at least 1 darvish bid was “sky” high. may have been “north” of $50M. again, unconfirmed.
Giuseppe Franco December 14th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 8:47 pm
I think we are already there, we have the big names and alot of them are underachieving already.
———
Consistent underachievers don’t make the playoffs every year.
They did finish with the best record in the AL last season.
____________________________________________________________________________
Well if your measurement is just making the playoffs and having a good record in the regular season you are absolutly right. I hear our management’s definition of success being a little higher though.
Bowden proposed 5 trades today on ESPN.com just to stir things up….it’s insider required so you can’t read the whole thing but one of them was Felix Hernandez for Montero, Nova, and Betances.
Sign the Cuban outfielders, they have plenety of good young pitchers on the horizon….It’s a lack of outfielders that they need to resolve ……..
GF -
Don’t you know – the first round exit negates everything they accomplished over the 162.
Phranchise December 14th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
CC is CC
Nova may or may not be Nova of last year – softmore slumps we have seen (Hughes)
Hughes – 2011 or 2010 version
Garcia – was a nice find, but are you confident again
AJ- no comment
Noesi – Looks very Aceves like to me, I think a nice fifth starter, but who knows. 200 innings or even close doubt it.
Doesn’t inspire a ton of confidence does it?
===============
You could make that kind of an analysis for any pitching staff. The odds that each of them will have a bad year next year are pretty remote. I don’t think that anybody is betting the season on Noesi’s ability to throw 200 inings next year. And Darvish also would come with a bunch of question marks.
Sign the Cuban outfielders, they have plenety of good young pitchers on the horizon….It’s a lack of outfielders that they need to resolve ……..
–
Scared to drop 100 mil on Darvish but you wanna drop 60 mil on Cespedes who has never played above A ball?? Amusing. You’ve seen Cespedes less than you’ve seen Darvish!
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
====
‘Face, what are league factors? I tried googling it, but I came up with nothing.
How much confidence did a rotation of CC, AJ, 30 yr old 50 lb overweight Colon, 85-88 mph fastball Garcia, a rookie Nova and 89 mph fastball Hughes look last year? Still won the division.
I think this is the year all 3 “killer b’s” burst on the scene. Man that brackman has made great strides. One year down, one B gone. #harvesting
That sounds about right for Felix. But I’m not trading those 3 players for 1 player. Those are three potentially very productive players.
“That sounds about right for Felix. But I’m not trading those 3 players for 1 player. Those are three potentially very productive players.”
Yea that’s probably fair but I don’t think I’d pay that price and I also think the Mariners would ask for more than that.
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Giuseppe Franco December 14th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 8:47 pm
I think we are already there, we have the big names and alot of them are underachieving already.
———
Consistent underachievers don’t make the playoffs every year.
They did finish with the best record in the AL last season.
____________________________________________________________________________
Well if your measurement is just making the playoffs and having a good record in the regular season you are absolutly right. I hear our management’s definition of success being a little higher though.
————
Amaro and Theo had pretty big expectations too. Things didn’t work out any better for them.
Whether the fans like it or not, it’s impossible for any franchise to win the WS every year. That’s a fact. What happened in the late 90s was something we’ll likely never see again in our lifetime.
Frankly, many Yankee fans nowadays don’t seem to remember the 1980s (or late 60 and early 70s for the older fans) and take this team and their recent success for granted.
blake December 14th, 2011 at 9:08 pm
Bowden proposed 5 trades today on ESPN.com just to stir things up….it’s insider required so you can’t read the whole thing but one of them was Felix Hernandez for Montero, Nova, and Betances.
*******
The Yankees at the very least know the names of prospects/players the Mariners like because of the Cliff Lee negotiations. They wanted Jesus Montero and Eduardo Nunez if I recall. I don’t remember them asking for Nova or Betances. But knowing so much about another team’s interest in your prospects can go a long way…or it could also go nowhere at all.
Villa Nova-Ya December 14th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
GF -
Don’t you know – the first round exit negates everything they accomplished over the 162.
———
Of course it does. How silly of me.
I think for once lets have faith the players we developed can fill our spots….
Felix would be great, but I think that Nova showed something really good last year….
We don’t know how Felix would pitch in games that matter in the fall, he has never had that pressure on him…
Cashman was the first to admit that he pressed his luck last season with Garcia and Colon and Nova gave him a nice gift. It’s really weird that the same luck pressing is going on.
Bret The Hitman December 14th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
Cashman was the first to admit that he pressed his luck last season with Garcia and Colon and Nova gave him a nice gift. It’s really weird that the same luck pressing is going on.
*******
I guess Cash is going to keep going until he runs into a whamy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnTbO26u9bQ
Ghostwriter December 14th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Phranchise December 14th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
CC is CC
Nova may or may not be Nova of last year – softmore slumps we have seen (Hughes)
Hughes – 2011 or 2010 version
Garcia – was a nice find, but are you confident again
AJ- no comment
Noesi – Looks very Aceves like to me, I think a nice fifth starter, but who knows. 200 innings or even close doubt it.
Doesn’t inspire a ton of confidence does it?
===============
You could make that kind of an analysis for any pitching staff. The odds that each of them will have a bad year next year are pretty remote. I don’t think that anybody is betting the season on Noesi’s ability to throw 200 inings next year. And Darvish also would come with a bunch of question marks.
____________________________________________________________________________
Well whomever goes out there, has to put together enough wins to make it to 90 wins. That’s what it would take in most years to make the playoff’s even in the new 5 team format. Yu was 18-6 this year in 28 starts, even if yu take his performance down significantly he’s still better than 3 of our starters last year who are returning.
Ghostwriter, I cannot find the exact place where I found league difficulty ratings (AL #1, NL #2, NPB and AAA leagues close to each other, AA etc) but here is a good article that explains why NPB is better than AAA:
http://www.baseballprospectus......cleid=1330
Long story short, AAA players do worse in the NPB.
wrong there. the yankees count the highest # of innings a pitcher has thrown in any year of his career as the # they can increase from. Noesi threw a total of 160 innings in 2010, so by the +30 approach they use, he can throw 190 innings in 2012. Nova threw 181 innings in the majors, minors and postseason combined last year.
Cashman’s theme music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....38;ob=av2e
All the folks who keep on saying the Yankees have no outfielders in the minors, Ravel Santana and Mason Williams say hi.
The Yankees should try to sign the young Cuban, but they already have a kid in Santana who is everything people are saying Soler might be, only he has already shown it.
Mason Williams people know a little, but even he is underrated by folks here I guess, and Santana has even more talent than him since he truly is a 5 tool super toolsy in every aspect player.
Also don’t give up on Heathcott yet, he also has all world talent he just has to stay on the field.
The Yankees should have bid high on Darvish, the reasons are simple, he cost nothing but money, which you can make back in sales in Asia.
The fact people compare him to Igawa is laughable, even Dicek is silly, no Japanese pitcher has put up the #s he has at his age, nor has his stuff and size.
If they want to play it safe and sign Kuroda I understand, but it is playing defense, and if they think Hamels is going to be available, I think Lee proved you don’t wait for players that might never come.
No matter what, they need to get rid of A.J and replace him with Noesi, Warren,Phelps, Mitchell or any other pitcher in baseball, he is a negative on the team when there does not need to be one.
Jerkface…..Nobody is giving Cespedes 60 million dollars……I think 60 million gets you both outfielders …..In the end Yu wasn’t deemed a 100 plus million dollar pitcher in the eyes of The Yanks…….Bottom line….No doubt he has talent, but how does it adjust to the big leagues is another story……You and LGY did a most informative reason for signing him but as CB pointed out last week it’s hard for an owner to just cut a check on speculation when the board room is divided……60 million is a lot of bread and then you have to sign him……Tough call, but the right one I say….
At this time last year Yankee fans were livid that the team hadn’t signed Carl Crawford.
Cashman had dinner with him!!!! And he still slipped through their fingers. What kind of plan is that!!!!!
And last year at this time the Red Sox had a pitching staff of 5 aces and a historically great team that the yankees couldn’t possibly compete with.
Same thing at the trade deadline.
We still have no idea who won the bid – and how much the bid was for.
And until you know those two things you really can’t draw any conclusions.
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
Well whomever goes out there, has to put together enough wins to make it to 90 wins. That’s what it would take in most years to make the playoff’s even in the new 5 team format. Yu was 18-6 this year in 28 starts, even if yu take his performance down significantly he’s still better than 3 of our starters last year who are returning.
=============
How do you know that?
wrong there. the yankees count the highest # of innings a pitcher has thrown in any year of his career as the # they can increase from. Noesi threw a total of 160 innings in 2010, so by the +30 approach they use, he can throw 190 innings in 2012. Nova threw 181 innings in the majors, minors and postseason combined last year.
–
If the Yanks really want to jump Noesi from 160->70->200 they might end up with another Hughes situation. They have said they are going to have Noesi start in AAA, I don’t think he is a major league option.
wrong there. the yankees count the highest # of innings a pitcher has thrown in any year of his career as the # they can increase from. Noesi threw a total of 160 innings in 2010, so by the +30 approach they use, he can throw 190 innings in 2012. Nova threw 181 innings in the majors, minors and postseason combined last year.
—–
That strategy didn’t work out so well with Hughes.
correction nova threw 184.2 innings last year, still less than noesi’s ceiling.
How do you know that?
___________________________________________________________________________
Because I looked up their stats. Feddie had the most wins with 12. Freedie also had the lowest ERA of 3.7, Phil and AJ were both over 5. Yu had 1.88.
$60M is a lot of coin to spend on two OFs ticketed for the minors.
lgy, you have no way of knowing who gets injured or why. the verducci thing is +30 but its just a theory, some guys can increase their IP by alot more and have no problems, others get injured pitching less like joba. in any case, noesi certainly seems capable of holding down the 5 spot in the rotation and get skipped from time to time, maybe get sent down and brough back, etc, just like nova last season, the innings shouldn’t be a problem.
“At this time last year Yankee fans were livid that the team hadn’t signed Carl Crawford.”
That wa$ a $ad anniver$ary.
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
How do you know that?
___________________________________________________________________________
Because I looked up their stats. Feddie had the most wins with 12. Freedie also had the lowest ERA of 3.7, Phil and AJ were both over 5. Yu had 1.88.
==============
apples and oranges.
I still don’t understand the attraction of Cespedes?
We have no idea if he can hit a major league curveball.
I can’t see laying out that much cash (whatever the exact figure is in the tens of millions) on an athletic guy who you don’t know can hit off speed stuff and is 26.
Ghostwriter Your comment is awaiting moderation. December 14th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
Ghostwriter, I cannot find the exact place where I found league difficulty ratings (AL #1, NL #2, NPB and AAA leagues close to each other, AA etc) but here is a good article that explains why NPB is better than AAA:
Long story short, AAA players do worse in the NPB.
====================================================
Thanks. I’ll look it over. Here is an article that I found on NPB (http://www.sportswealthonline&.....-baseball/). It’s pretty elementary stuff. However, I thought that this piece of analysis sounds about right:
“…According to many opinions, the level of play is slightly lower than the Major Leagues. Many critics now claim that Japanese baseball is ‘three and a half A’. While that may be accurate, it is also misleading.
Each team has a few all-star players who could easily play in the Major leagues while other players wouldn’t be able to draw a pay check on a North American farm team in the country. Because each franchise has only two teams (one minor league and one ‘first-string’) players in any given ball club may widely differ in playing ability. Generally, though, there are probably enough top-level Japanese players to fill three or four Major League roster”
i think crawford is going to be a best next season. very high on my draft board…
Yu also had 270 K’s, Other than CC AJ lead all the other pitchers with 175.
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
Yu also had 270 K’s, Other than CC AJ lead all the other pitchers with 175.
=================
“Each team has a few all-star players who could easily play in the Major leagues while other players wouldn’t be able to draw a pay check on a North American farm team in the country.”
I wonder how many of those strikeouts came against the first group, and how many against the second group.
I was just hoping after the disappointment of missing out on Cliff Lee, that this year the Yankees would land YU.
Not comparing Yu to Cliff, but I am starving for a Yankee move of some kind.
Thanks. I’ll look it over. Here is an article that I found on NPB (http://www.sportswealthonline&.....-baseball/). It’s pretty elementary stuff. However, I thought that this piece of analysis sounds about right:
“…According to many opinions, the level of play is slightly lower than the Major Leagues. Many critics now claim that Japanese baseball is ‘three and a half A’. While that may be accurate, it is also misleading.
Each team has a few all-star players who could easily play in the Major leagues while other players wouldn’t be able to draw a pay check on a North American farm team in the country. Because each franchise has only two teams (one minor league and one ‘first-string’) players in any given ball club may widely differ in playing ability. Generally, though, there are probably enough top-level Japanese players to fill three or four Major League roster”
____________________________________________________________________________
Just asking, but can’t you make a similar argument about the small market teams here? Most of those teams are loaded with imposters.
I don’t think there’s anyway to justify spending 60+ million in one off season on players who don’t improve your 25 man roster.
comparing yu’s japanese #s to mlb #s is a joke
igawa had 145 K’s his last year in japan, he’s had 53 in his illustrious major league ‘career’
Gary December 14th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
Thanks. I’ll look it over. Here is an article that I found on NPB (http://www.sportswealthonline&.....-baseball/). It’s pretty elementary stuff. However, I thought that this piece of analysis sounds about right:
“…According to many opinions, the level of play is slightly lower than the Major Leagues. Many critics now claim that Japanese baseball is ‘three and a half A’. While that may be accurate, it is also misleading.
Each team has a few all-star players who could easily play in the Major leagues while other players wouldn’t be able to draw a pay check on a North American farm team in the country. Because each franchise has only two teams (one minor league and one ‘first-string’) players in any given ball club may widely differ in playing ability. Generally, though, there are probably enough top-level Japanese players to fill three or four Major League roster”
____________________________________________________________________________
Just asking, but can’t you make a similar argument about the small market teams here? Most of those teams are loaded with imposters.
================
I don’t think so. At least not to the same extent. For starters, ML teams draw from a much larger population base, and the minor league system in the US is extremely well-developed. Japanse baseball doesn’t have as many resources. From what I understand, the NPB is actually pretty poor (materially). Hence, the reason that they’ve resorted to auctioning some of their best players…
Is Cespedes going to demand a ML contract? Will there be a luxury tax implication with him?
http://twitter.com/#!/incarcer.....1879211008
Incarcerated Bob
Did the Yankees play possum & make a 40+ Million Bid for Yu Darvish? Some chatter that the Bronx Bombers may have pulled a fast 1
Cashman and the Yankees weren’t “pressing their luck” for going with Nova, Garcia and Colon. Nova was as near ready to make the jump from AAA to the majors and Garcia wasn’t exactly terrible in Chicago. They took a calculated risk on them and gambled on Colon being as good as his winter league manager, Tony Pena says he looked to be.
Huge difference between a calculated risk and pressing your luck. Pressing your luck was in 2008 when NYYs attempted to put 3 rookies into the rotation at the same time.
igawa had 145 K’s his last year in japan, he’s had 53 in his illustrious major league ‘career’
–
53 in 67 innings, which isn’t bad. Matsuzaka was able to strike out a lot of MLB hitters.
Can someone please incarcerate bob again and take away his tweeting privileges.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
igawa had 145 K’s his last year in japan, he’s had 53 in his illustrious major league ‘career’
–
53 in 67 innings, which isn’t bad.
==============
Out of how many hitters that he faced? LOL!
GreenBeret7 December 14th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Cashman and the Yankees weren’t “pressing their luck” for going with Nova, Garcia and Colon. Nova was as near ready to make the jump from AAA to the majors and Garcia wasn’t exactly terrible in Chicago. They took a calculated risk on them and gambled on Colon being as good as his winter league manager, Tony Pena says he looked to be.
Huge difference between a calculated risk and pressing your luck. Pressing your luck was in 2008 when NYYs attempted to put 3 rookies into the rotation at the same time.
===========
Well put. Putting together a roster is essentially an exercise in taking calculated risks. There are no sure things. But some things are better bets than others.
CB…..Does anyone know if he can’t hit an offspeed pitch ???? That was the rap against Bo Jackson when the Royals signed him that he was a dead red hitter…….My point is this, the Yanks as will many clubs will take a closer look at the Cuban ballplayers than they did Darvish……
Has anybody attempted to put a $ figure on the increase in sales (or bottom line) that Yu will bring to a team?
The Yankees have had some experience (positive) with Matsui, so I am sure they came up with a figure.
My bet is the Yankee are all in on Yu. It’s probably a smart business decision without even thinking about the baseball side of it.
“Pressing your luck was in 2008 when NYYs attempted to put 3 rookies into the rotation at the same time.”
Wasn’t it two at the same time? Joba opened the year in the pen.
Nick
I can’t imagine he’d accept a mL deal. If he’s on the 40 man roster the salary affects the luxury tax.
We sign Darvish yet?
I fear that if Darvish is signed – this will be played on the jumbo tron after each K:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k
Ghost,
As you said, every roster is made to be maybe 23 calculated risks (that they stay healthy and don’t regress and or improve. adding 2 tire patches such as Colon and Chavez were the gambles. This is something that goes on every year.
“Does anyone know if he can’t hit an offspeed pitch ???? ”
No. But that’s not the issue. He has to prove he can play. Not prove that he can’t. If you’re spending money based on benefit of the doubt – you’re going to make bad deals, IMO.
You can’t just give a guy a major league deal that will count against the luxury tax because it hasn’t been proven that he can’t hit off speed stuff.
If you’re going to sink tens of millions into a guy you have to have some reasonable certainty that he can hit major league pitching.
Perhaps the Yankees know that. I’m just not sure how they would given how the competitiveness of Cuban baseball has fallen and how closed the system is.
And you also know how rare a talent Bo Jackson was – and how even he struggled to hit soft stuff.
There have been so many guys who have come into the game as great athletes but just can’t hit. You find those kind of guys every year in the draft. Cespedes easily could be that kind of guy.
And this is all very much complicated by Cespedes age. He’s not some young prospect.
If Soler really has as much bat speed as people are saying and he’s 19 – I’d go get him. Cespedes to me doesn’t make sense. It’s very possible that the clubs have confidence in what they know of his ability – but his age and price just don’t add up to me.
so the Yanks, Cubs, Rangers, and Blue Jays are known to have bid so far?
ray, where ya been, yes they won the bid, signed him, had a presser and held a workout with him already, don’t you have a smartphone?
The Yankees bid 33 on Dicek, and then when they lost they stupidly bid on a player they did not know a lot about and made a terrible mistake on Igawa.
Darvish has a much better chance of being the real deal than Dicek, when you look at all the variables, but lets say they bid 44 million for him, it’s right in the range for what I think they should have done, if he fails, they still probably make that money back.
I don’t think he will fail, even Dicek was not terrible, but again this is a different pitcher, his motion, size, age and demeanor, all of them are improved versions of Dicek. If the Yankees did not bid more than they did for Dicek, it makes zero sense. If they did and were outbid, well that’s another thing.
Yea that’s one of the things with Cespedes….26 isn’t old….but it’s not young especially if you have yet to prove yourself in the big leagues. He looks like a serious athlete….but his swing is a little long just from the clips I’ve seen and you always wonder about latin players plate discipline. Its a lot of money for as little as is known about how he’ll fair against big league competition
CB…Alright I’ll rephrase my comment….Take a very close look at the Cuban outfielders, which by all accounts they and many teams have….The Yanks need outfield prospects beyond the few that they have…….
“And you also know how rare a talent Bo Jackson was – and how even he struggled to hit soft stuff.”‘
…by ‘soft stuff’ you mean brian bohringer, right?
Out of how many hitters that he faced? LOL!
–
Igawa was really bad, but he still K’d a greater % of batters faced than Nova.
Blake-If those were the only teams to bid on Darvish, then probably it was the Rangers that overbid to keep up with the Kardashians[Angels].
Tar December 14th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
Has anybody attempted to put a $ figure on the increase in sales (or bottom line) that Yu will bring to a team?
The Yankees have had some experience (positive) with Matsui, so I am sure they came up with a figure.
My bet is the Yankee are all in on Yu. It’s probably a smart business decision without even thinking about the baseball side of it.
===========
I wonder about that. Don’t you thiink that the novelty of a Japanese star crossing the Pacific has worn off by now? It seems like old hat to me at this point.
Trying to decipher the Yankees thinking on Japan players:
Nomo initially succeeds THEN
The Yanks go big on Irabu – who fails THEN
Ichiro more than succeeds – THEN
The Yanks sign Matsui who succeeds – THEN
The Yanks bid on Dice-K and fall well short THEN
The Yanks bid aggressively on Igawa who turns out to be a total mess THEN
The Yanks do what with Darvish????
The bid for these players is completely secondary.
The whole key is to figure out how much you think the player is worth in total.
That’s what matters.
Then based on that total valuation you make a bid.
Pegging the total value of the player is the key.
Igawa K’d 16.9% of batters Nova 13.9%
Worse than Igawa
“Has anybody attempted to put a $ figure on the increase in sales (or bottom line) that Yu will bring to a team?”
Unless Yu brings a corporate sponsor with him to the Bronx, much less than you think.
Pat M-
Looks like LA finally got Chris Paul-the Clippers that is.
Expect the Yankees, if they didn’t win the bid on Darvish, to pursue signing Kuroda on a one year contract and go after the 19 yo Cuban-Soler.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Out of how many hitters that he faced? LOL!
–
Igawa was really bad, but he still K’d a greater % of batters faced than Nova.
======
I still would take Nova, and so would most others.
So the Yankees are going to sign a single A player for a ton of money who won’t be able to help the team for 3 plus years?
Trader……That’s how I would like The Yanks to proceed
“It seems like old hat to me at this point.”
I don’t think so, but I defer to people with more knowledge on the subject.
I will say this. I know Hal looked into how much money signing Yu will bring into the coffers before coming with a bid. So whatever the answer is– it affected the Yankee bid.
“If Japanese infielder Hiroyuki Nakajima does not want to play for the New York Yankees, there still might be a way for him to join a major-league team next season.
The Yankees could work a sign-and-trade involving Nakajima — an idea that the player’s U.S. agent, Greg Genske, has broached with the club, major-league sources say.”
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ues-121411
new post >
“Unless Yu brings a corporate sponsor with him to the Bronx, much less than you think.”
I’m curious why you think that Pat?
CB December 14th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
The bid for these players is completely secondary.
The whole key is to figure out how much you think the player is worth in total.
That’s what matters.
Then based on that total valuation you make a bid.
Pegging the total value of the player is the key.
===========
the money for the bid gets paid up front, and the salary comes later. I think that the Yanks should take a shot at Cespedes the way that they took a shot at Nakajima. I like the idea of snagging the prospect, but I wouldn’t go overboard on the bidding.
Tar December 14th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
“It seems like old hat to me at this point.”
I don’t think so, but I defer to people with more knowledge on the subject.
I will say this. I know Hal looked into how much money signing Yu will bring into the coffers before coming with a bid. So whatever the answer is– it affected the Yankee bid.
=====================
No doubt on the latter.
NYYs didn’t make a big on Igawa as an unknown player . Their Pacific Rim head scout made the recommendation. The also had Mike Pagliarulo’s scouting reports from his company. For the life of me, I can’t remember his name, but, he also scouted and recommended Wang. The guy was later fired, mainly because of the Igawa failure. Igawa was hardly unscouted and unknown.