Wednesday notes and links: Darvish, the Red Sox and holiday cheer
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 14, 2011 
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It could take a few days before anyone knows the winner of the Yu Darvish sweepstakes. Adam Kilgore reports that the choice could be announced tonight or early tomorrow, but ultimately, the Nippon Ham Fighters have time and can decide for themselves when to make an announcement.
The Yankees reportedly put in a bid. I haven’t heard any confirmation that they definitely did, but I also have no reason at all to doubt George King. Regardless, the current expectation is that the Yankees might not have been willing to commit the kind of money it will take to win the negotiating rights.
Jeff Passan — whose done a nice job following Darvish this winter — reports that the highest bid will be accepted, no matter the amount.
I have to assume that the Red Sox are the competing team you’re all most interested in, and they reportedly did not enter a bid at all, so they won’t be adding Darvish.
• Joe Girardi and Robinson Cano were in the Christmas spirit today, helping at the Yankees annual Holiday Food Drive. “Coming from a poor country, this really means a lot to me, especially in the situation right now,” Cano told Bryan Hoch. “The economy is really down. These are the kinds of things I always like to (do), help other people.”
• Although he was a closer last year with the Astros, Mark Melancon might end up in a setup role with the Red Sox. Boston is still in the market for a Jonathan Papelbon replacement.
• The Red Sox also added utility infielder Nick Punto (another player I covered in Scranton). He’s tremendous defensively, and probably helps fill the void left by Jed Lowrie being sent away in the Melancon deal.
• One last Red Sox note: Don’t rule out the idea of them carrying Jason Varitek as a third catcher next season. Hey, it worked for the Yankees.
• Sticking with the AL East: The Rays did not bid on Darvish.
• Take J.C. Romero off the left-handed relief market. He’s apparently heading to St. Louis.
Associated Press photo
rying to decipher the Yankees thinking on Japan players:
Nomo initially succeeds THEN
The Yanks go big on Irabu – who fails THEN
Ichiro more than succeeds – THEN
The Yanks sign Matsui who succeeds – THEN
The Yanks bid on Dice-K and fall well short THEN
The Yanks bid aggressively on Igawa who turns out to be a total mess THEN
The Yanks do what with Darvish????
Pat M-
Looks like LA finally got Chris Paul-the Clippers that is.
Expect the Yankees, if they didn’t win the bid on Darvish, to pursue signing Kuroda on a one year contract and go after the 19 yo Cuban-Soler.
“Expect the Yankees, if they didn’t win the bid on Darvish, to pursue signing Kuroda on a one year contract and go after the 19 yo Cuban-Soler.”
I would be cool with that……I do think the Yanks may have to pay too much to get Kuroda if west coast teams are in the bidding though. Still think a trade may materialize that makes sense at some point.
Wow . Finally . A new picture of Darvish .
I still would take Nova, and so would most others.
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Duh because Igawa is bad and Nova is atleast above average, but you and whomever I responded to are making fun of Igawa’s ability to get strikeouts, somehow transferring his supposed lack of ability to Darvish. When infact, Igawa did not have as much trouble getting strike outs as you’d think, and of course Darvish won’t as well. He’ll K 8 per 9+ next year.
…. and he looks just as skinny in this one .
Blake-
Rumors have Diamondbacks in on Darvish with an offer 13M, and Rockies, but he’s waiting on interest from Yankees and Red Sox. Haven’t heard of any west coast team showing interest/
There’s a new rumor (from the usual nonsensical sources) that the Yankees bid $40 million plus. If true, they may have gone for it. Not sure I believe it, but interesting nonetheless…
Did Hank give his brother a noogie and beat him to the phone to call in a bid to Cashman???
Arizona and Colorado are closer the the west coast though that NY…..13 million is getting up there but if it’s a one year deal it’s not a huge issue. We’ll see..
YT-
I think you meant Kuroda but you said Darvish.
MTU-
Still too much YU know who on my mind. Thanks it was Kuroda.
Jeter on TV soon with Barbara Walters.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 10:16 pm
I still would take Nova, and so would most others.
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Duh because Igawa is bad and Nova is atleast above average, but you and whomever I responded to are making fun of Igawa’s ability to get strikeouts, somehow transferring his supposed lack of ability to Darvish. When infact, Igawa did not have as much trouble getting strike outs as you’d think, and of course Darvish won’t as well. He’ll K 8 per 9+ next year.
================
No, I was just making fun of Igawa, and teasing you for feebly trying to spin Igawa’s travails in your defense of Darvish. (I mean, really–he was awful–who gives a rat’s ass about his k-rate?) I view Darvish as entirely separable from Igawa. I also think that Darvish could be a great prospect. However, I demur on betting $100 million on such an unknown factor, especially when the Yanks are so deep in solid (and much cheaper) pitching prospects.
Jeter on right now.
I mean, really–he was awful–who gives a rat’s ass about his k-rate?
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UH The person I was responding to who specifically mentioned it. Surely you can pay attention enough to see that.
i love watching derek jeter play baseball, but I cant think of too many things less interesting than watching barbara walters interview him.
jeter said he would like to own a team one day
Walters asked Jeter if he was free and available.
Response “I’m happy”
Sure he is, and it only costs him an autographed baseball!!
Ys Guy-
Interview was uninteresting.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
I mean, really–he was awful–who gives a rat’s ass about his k-rate?
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UH The person I was responding to who specifically mentioned it. Surely you can pay attention enough to see that.
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I’m sorry. You’re right. It’s a compelling argument, Igawa had 53 Ks in 63 innings (or whatever it was). Let’s ignore the fact that he was so bad that they only let him pitch 63 innings, despite being paid millions of dollars to pitch in the minor leagues.
Jeter should have bid on Yu Darvish and then built a team around him.
Awesome Jeter interview. That guy is a stud.
blake December 14th, 2011 at 10:31 pm
jeter said he would like to own a team one day
==============
He could send players that don’t make grade home with his driver and a signed ball:)
Repost from previous subject
NYYs didn’t make a bid on Igawa as an unknown player . Their Pacific Rim head scout made the recommendation. The also had Mike Pagliarulo’s scouting reports from his company. For the life of me, I can’t remember his name, but, he also scouted and recommended Wang. The guy was later fired, mainly because of the Igawa failure. Igawa was hardly unscouted and unknown.
“Let’s ignore the fact that he was so bad that they only let him pitch 63 innings…”
They should have kept running him out there to take the heat off of 1921 Guy.
RobinsonCano Robinson Cano
Celebrity basketball game con mi gente!!!! http://lockerz.com/s/164908752
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Hopefully he doesn’t pull a Boone on the court there.
GreenBeret7 December 14th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Repost from previous subject
NYYs didn’t make a bid on Igawa as an unknown player . Their Pacific Rim head scout made the recommendation. The also had Mike Pagliarulo’s scouting reports from his company. For the life of me, I can’t remember his name, but, he also scouted and recommended Wang. The guy was later fired, mainly because of the Igawa failure. Igawa was hardly unscouted and unknown.
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Thanks. I was wondering about that. I thought that other post didn’t sound quite right, but I didn’t know enough about the back story.
Blake-
BTW-meant to include this mornings[Tokyo time] link to Kuroda.
Sponichi morning headlines from 12/15/2011:
Hiroki Kuroda may have gotten a one-year deal worth around US$13M from the Arizona Diamondbacks. With the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox also interested, Kuroda will likely wait to hear from them (and anyone else) before making his final decision.
Trader,
yea I saw that….not sure how much about 13 million the Yanks would go
Thanks. I was wondering about that. I thought that other post didn’t sound quite right, but I didn’t know enough about the back story.
–
In a story about Igawa’s journey that was published this year, it quoted the Yankees as saying they did not even know Igawa’s best pitch when they first met him. They knew little about him.
Trader – why would we expect the yankees to do these other things if they don’t get darvish? If they wanted darvish they would have obtained darvish. If they didn’t, they could have gone down these other paths already anyway. Doesn’t make sense.
Let’s ignore the fact that he was so bad that they only let him pitch 63 innings, despite being paid millions of dollars to pitch in the minor leagues.
–
Which wasn’t the point of what I was saying. Igawa sucks, but he still K’d more guys than Nova even in his limited sample of sucking atrociously. You are all insinuating that Darvish won’t K people because ‘the NPB has a bunch of guys that suck!’ and ys Guy specifically pointed out Igawa’s small number of K’s in the majors after King 153 in the NPB in 1 season. Which ignores RATE PER 9 and RATE PER BATTERS FACED.
Get dunked.
“why would we expect the yankees to do these other things if they don’t get darvish?”
well presumably because they are lesser commitments financially……we don’t know how they value Darvish.
Ghostwriter December 14th, 2011 at 10:39 pm
GreenBeret7 December 14th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Repost from previous subject
NYYs didn’t make a bid on Igawa as an unknown player . Their Pacific Rim head scout made the recommendation. The also had Mike Pagliarulo’s scouting reports from his company. For the life of me, I can’t remember his name, but, he also scouted and recommended Wang. The guy was later fired, mainly because of the Igawa failure. Igawa was hardly unscouted and unknown.
=======
Thanks. I was wondering about that. I thought that other post didn’t sound quite right, but I didn’t know enough about the back story.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Ghost, i found this someplace about a year or so ago, and they named that scout. I was surprised that the same guy that found CMW could screw up this bad and especially with Pagliarulo’s compnay reports to the Yanks.
I just want to know if Igawa was worse at anything since 1921?
Journalist Misako Hida recently did an interesting interview with Kei Igawa for the Japanese version of the Wall Street Journal. Among the insights: Igawa wants to sign with an MLB organization that will give him a chance to reach the majors, he doesn’t get recognized much when he goes out, and he realized the Yankees didn’t know him when the GM and manager asked what his best pitch at a meeting during his first year.
http://www.npbtracker.com/2011.....tching-up/
The interview was linked here as well
Tar
Biggest revenues are realized from TV money, corporate sponsorships, butts in the seats and merchandising.
I believe the YES Network already has a Japanese licensing agreement in place from Matsui’s time in pinstripes so the revenues from that are probably somewhat set.
MLB formula for merchandise revenue sharing is complicated but the greatest $$ for teams come from merchandise sold in club owned stores so Darvish merchandise bought through MLB or in non Yankee stores benefits the league as much as the Yankees.
How many extra butts in the seats will Darvish bring to Yankee Stadium? Yankees sell 30,000+ seats to games on average so he could add some business there but likely not a staggering amount.
That leaves corporate sponsorships. Matsui brought a Japanese corporate sponsor to the Bronx so that was value added. Darvish might as well but that’s a current unknown.
Is that scout still employed by the Yankees.
I was never impressed by Igawa based only on some of the videp I saw on him pitching in Japan. Lefties were hitting him.
One last Red Sox note: Don’t rule out the idea of them carrying Jason Varitek as a third catcher next season. Hey, it worked for the Yankees.
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Not really. Posada was really just a DH, and they had two catchers. With Montero, he will primarily be the DH, taking the DH spot on the roster, and also catch some, and they will probably carry two (other) catchers.
With the Red Sox I doubt Varitek fills the DH spot, or anyone else than Ortiz.
Kei Igawa, worst use of sunglasses since 1921 Yankee Chick Fewster.
LoMoMarlins I forgot 2 leave her a signed baseball RT @realKeithK: LoMo how did ur twitter account not get u on Barbra walters most fascinating list?
Yankees
YankeeSource Yankees
So they don’t know who made the winning bid yet. Bah-humbug to all these speculations. Time to get some lunch.
Yankees
YankeeSource Yankees
Fighters rep Shimada: “I can’t tell you the exact bid amount but it was a very respectable offer. We do not know team as of yet.”
2 minutes ago
Eh, this “if this doesn’t happen then the yanks will do that” game is getting old. Heard it all last offseason, all last july, and now here again.
November 19, 2006
Madden: Yanks Not High On Kei Igawa
From the News -
Next week, the No. 2 regarded Japanese pitcher, soft-throwing Hanshin Tigers lefty Kei Igawa, who was 14-9 and tied for the Central League in strikeouts last year, goes up for posting, and while the Yankees are expected to make a bid, they regard him as a back-of-the-rotation starter. In other words, they wouldn’t mind having him in the spring training mix, but aren’t going to go overboard for him.
Jerkface December 14th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Let’s ignore the fact that he was so bad that they only let him pitch 63 innings, despite being paid millions of dollars to pitch in the minor leagues.
–
Which wasn’t the point of what I was saying. Igawa sucks, but he still K’d more guys than Nova even in his limited sample of sucking atrociously. You are all insinuating that Darvish won’t K people because ‘the NPB has a bunch of guys that suck!’ and ys Guy specifically pointed out Igawa’s small number of K’s in the majors after King 153 in the NPB in 1 season. Which ignores RATE PER 9 and RATE PER BATTERS FACED.
Get dunked.
============
If you think that rate stats over such a short period (63 innings) actually mean something, then I don’t what else to say about it. And I really don’t get the point of dragging Nova into the discussion. Whatever.
I thought thought that bringing up Igawa was misguided, because generalizing from a specific case in that fashion is notoriously unreliable. However, I do wonder about the predictive value of Darvish’s NPB stats.
I’m out of here. Good night.
Yankee Trader December 14th, 2011 at 10:50 pm
Is that scout still employed by the Yankees.
I was never impressed by Igawa based only on some of the videp I saw on him pitching in Japan. Lefties were hitting him.
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Yeah, he was fired. I believe the Yanks knew what he threw, but, didn’t know that he was getting away with high fastballs and high curves.
Thanks Pat
Great job in breaking it down for me.
YankeeSource Yankees
Sounds like the Fighters haven’t sent an approval to the MLB as of yet. So whoever is waiting this one out, I say go to sleep.
2 minutes ago
I shall…..gnight everyone
No Sleep ‘Til Darvish
Muskat Carlos Zambrano struck out 1, walked 1 in 4 shutout innings for Caribes Wed night; 1st start since taking line drive off face.
John Cox was the scout who signed Chien Ming wang, but he did not scout Igawa for the Yankees. He was fired(contract not renewed) before Igawa was posted and was with the giants that year.
Mike Pagliurroirouir was the guy the Yankees depended on for Igawa and he was fired/whatever.
Personally, if we don’t get Darvish, I’m all in on this guy. Check the video:
http://movieclips.com/cJE4a-ma.....-velocity/
Yankee Trader December 14th, 2011 at 10:58 pm
November 19, 2006
Madden: Yanks Not High On Kei Igawa
From the News -
Next week, the No. 2 regarded Japanese pitcher, soft-throwing Hanshin Tigers lefty Kei Igawa, who was 14-9 and tied for the Central League in strikeouts last year, goes up for posting, and while the Yankees are expected to make a bid, they regard him as a back-of-the-rotation starter. In other words, they wouldn’t mind having him in the spring training mix, but aren’t going to go overboard for him.
=======
Thanks for posting this. My takeaway is that the Yanks still bid over $20 million on him despite this modest assessment. However, in ’04, I don’t think that the Yanks had as many strong prospects in the minors as they do now.
but, didn’t know that he was getting away with high fastballs and high curves.
——
How could they not know that if they scouted him as diligently as you claim?
How could they not know that if they scouted him as diligently as you claim?
–
Because they didnt scout him as diligently as he claims shhh dont tell anyone
If you think that rate stats over such a short period (63 innings) actually mean something, then I don’t what else to say about it. And I really don’t get the point of dragging Nova into the discussion. Whatever.
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Sorry theres no 1000 inning sample but the point of it is that his strike out rates were just fine in the majors, even better than current yankee prospects everyone loves. it shows that pitchers who can strike out batters in the NPB can still strike out MLB batters. You can also see Saito, Uehara, Kuroda, Matsuzaka for proof of that as well. Darvish is a strike out pitcher, and will continue to be one. He wont be as good as he was in the NPB but he will still be very good.
I never said they scouted him diligently. I said that he wasn’t unknown, Dumb ass.
Cox, did in fact do the scouting in Japan. He also scouted Kaz Matsui among others.
Cox, did in fact do the scouting in Japan. He also scouted Kaz Matsui among others.
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Not for the year Igawa was posted.
http://articles.sfgate.com/200.....n-japanese
Here is an article about him being hired by the Giants before Igawa signed with the yankees, which would be pretty funny if they pre-fired him for the Igawa bid they hadn’t yet made!
I said that he wasn’t unknown,
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His best pitch was unknown to his manager and the GM who posted for him. Keep trying.
“Whats your best pitch?” is what you ask a person who came to your open tryout, right before making them throw it for you. Its not what you ask your 40 million dollar acquisition.
Of course the Yankees knew of Kei Igawa.
They had to put his name on the paperwork and everything.
Kei Igawa is irrelevant.
Spoke to former Yankee killer Chuck Finley the other day at a Golf fundraising golf tourney….I asked him about Yu Darvish and his take was this …..The kid could make a big splash here once he makes the adjustments in his game to succeed in the American game……..Every 6th day would be one, pitching to deep lineups and so many different lineups would be another…..Road trips here are longer and more grueling than in Japan…..But Chuck felt Yu has the talents and drive to pull it off……The 15-18 million dollar salary would not be a stumbling block for just about any club…….It’s the 50-60 million dollar outlay which is the deal breaker for most organizations…….Finely’s comments is not a viewpoint that he stands alone with……So Jerkface and LGY are close to being on target with Yu’s skills, where they’re way off is when they minimize the huge posting commitment which many myself included thinks it’s be in the 60 million plateau…..
giuseppe franco (from last thread):
‘Whether the fans like it or not, it’s impossible for any franchise to win the WS every year. That’s a fact. What happened in the late 90s was something we’ll likely never see again in our lifetime.
Frankly, many Yankee fans nowadays don’t seem to remember the 1980s (or late 60 and early 70s for the older fans) and take this team and their recent success for granted.’
Best thing I’ve read on here in days.
giuseppe franco (from last thread):
‘Whether the fans like it or not, it’s impossible for any franchise to win the WS every year. That’s a fact. What happened in the late 90s was something we’ll likely never see again in our lifetime.
Frankly, many Yankee fans nowadays don’t seem to remember the 1980s (or late 60 and early 70s for the older fans) and take this team and their recent success for granted.’
____________________________________________________________________________
Morning, yes I do remember the 60′s and 70′s and especially the CBS years.
I agree in principal with what he says the late 90′s had the Yanks running the table and one could never sustain that level of performance. However a team with 27 world championships should not be accepting one championship in the last 11 years, having gone to the playoffs on 10 of those. Maybe most hear will think that a ratio of 10% is the new normal and is acceptable? I don ‘t. I think we should more on the 30% ratio.
NY Post Headline this AM
“Yankees Make Yu Turn”
It begins.
and ends.
cuz i believe Yanks likely didn’t make a very high bid.
aka Hal is very conservative. Don’t expect NYY to sign the cuban players either. Too bad, cuz George would’ve been all over all 3 players
Good morning-
As of now only 2 teams have admitted placing bids on Yu Darvish-the Cubs and Yankees.
The only report on whether the Rangers bid was in the Boston Herald:
http://www.bostonherald.com/sp.....ion=recent
Cannot find any news out of Toronto or Washington that their teams placed a bid.
The Giants, Athletics, Marlins, Mets, Rays, Angels, Twins, Red Sox and Orioles are out of the mix for Darvish, according to MLBTRs.
So who’s in it to win it?
However a team with 27 world championships should not be accepting one championship in the last 11 years, having gone to the playoffs on 10 of those. Maybe most hear will think that a ratio of 10% is the new normal and is acceptable? I don ‘t. I think we should more on the 30% ratio
==============================
The 27 world championships isn’t really germane. 20 of those were won over a 39 years period of ridiculous dominance. However, it required winning only one playoff series. In the last 40 years, the Yankees have won 7 titles. I think the Cardinals have won 4 in that time frame and nobody else has won more than 2. 7 is about 18% of 40. Given the extra playoff rounds that are necessary to win a title and the never ending effort to create some level of parity through revenue sharing, luxury taxes, restrictions on draft and IFA spending, etc., winning championships 30% of the time simply isn’t a reasonable expectation.
Gary -
I don’t think they accept it. They have never been in rebuild mode (at least not officially, and certainly not full-blown). Each year their goal is to get better.
One of the problems is that over the years, since the early 2000′s you can see that they spent a lot of money and had the same issue – not progressing to and through the WS. Look at the FAs that were signed back then. It’s just a whole lot easier to say than to accomplish. The Yankees have won 27 WS and no other team is really close. But those 27 WS have come over, what, 70-80 years? That’s a lot of years that they have not won, and their mission (with the exception of the CBS years) has always been to win it all. GMS may have said it out loud, but it was always their goal.
In recent years, you can see that it is getting more and more difficult to sign the top players, because the league is so financially successful that other teams now have enough money to keep their own players and to have a fair shot in the FA market. And since other teams have won since the 90′s Yankees, players don’t feel that they must necessarily come to NY to get their ring (which I always hated anyway – oh, I need a ring so I’ll sign with the Yankees – I think THAT’S what did them in in the 2000′s, that attitude, and Brian Cashman seems to have recognized that and weeds those players out – the ones who don’t really want to play here). Plus with the WC, more and more teams are in the chase for a pennant spot later in the season, so the trade market isn’t what it used to be either.
It’s easy to sit here and say the Yankees should do this or that, but other teams have to be willing to deal, for one, and to deal reasonably for the other. I like that they don’t sell the farm anymore. And I like that they’re very choosy.
And like it or not, the Yankees are looking at their bottom line these days. For the money they’ve spent, you’re right, they don’t have enough to show for it – and I think they see that. Spending mroe money is not the answer. Being very careful about the money you spend is a good thing.
And you can do everything right – spend money wisely, make good trades, be choosy about the players on your team, etc., and STILL you may not win it all, because (1) it is hard to do, (2) these players are human, (3) “stuff” happens – like injuries; and (4) other teams want to win too and are not in existence to hand the Yankees championships on a silver platter.
Winning the WS is fun, but it’s not a Yankees birthright. Reasonably, if you root for a team that has a chance to win the WS every year, which the Yankees do, you’re in a really good spot.
And frankly, this team won the WS in 2009 and by the time the parade was over, most of the people here were already complaining. And that’s because it was seen as a “checklist” item and not the special thing it is.
vinny-b December 15th, 2011 at 7:24 am
aka Hal is very conservative. Don’t expect NYY to sign the cuban players either. Too bad, cuz George would’ve been all over all 3 players
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Vinny, I agree Hal is less agressive than George, but on the other hand he isn’t complacent. George would be back on Christmas Eve to slap him in the side of the head.
I believe the Yanks made a bid that they thought would win. If someone just went nuts and won it there isn’t much we could have done about that.
Correction: Yankees have won 7 titles over the last 50 years (1962-2011). Also corrected to note that the Cardinals have 5 over that time frame, not 4.
Math > me without coffee
Either way, 30% in this day and age is exceedingly high expectation.
dogface -
Excellent point about the playoff rounds. I forgot that one!
YT-
I find it very hard to believe that the Cubs would enter a bid on Darvish.
With Crapstein at the helm and his Dice-K experience.
Maybe he is that dumb ?
Yankees @YankeeSource 6h The talk of Yankees bidding low was pure speculation. No one knows at this point what they bid.
Villa-
Thanks for posting your comments above. You are so right.
Winning the WS is fun, but it’s not a Yankees birthright. Reasonably, if you root for a team that has a chance to win the WS every year, which the Yankees do, you’re in a really good spot.
And frankly, this team won the WS in 2009 and by the time the parade was over, most of the people here were already complaining. And that’s because it was seen as a “checklist” item and not the special thing it is.
____________________________________________________________________________
Villa good insights on the past, your a little off on your guess they actually won those over 90 years which figures out to be exactly 30%.
Seems like you should have a goal and what better one that what history has given you.
Yeah, Yankees don’t want to win. They’ve spent 2 billion over the past decade for nothing.
MTU
Cubs not only bid for Darvish, they have an interest in Wakefield and Varitek.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....379.column
YT-
Thanks.
Well there’s a guy who doesn’t learn from his experiences.
Genius, Huh.
Too funny.
Report on MLBTR says that if the Yanks get Nakajima he might be a sign and trade.
Article says Giants and Cubs would be interested in dealing for him.
If he’s any good I’d rather keep him and see what putting Nunez’s name out there would bring us ?
Think Braves. Prado and/or one of their good young lefty relievers.
dogface December 15th, 2011 at 7:32 am
Correction: Yankees have won 7 titles over the last 50 years (1962-2011). Also corrected to note that the Cardinals have 5 over that time frame, not 4.
Math > me without coffee
Either way, 30% in this day and age is exceedingly high expectation.
____________________________________________________________________________
I guess you can play the numbers anyway you want. 90 years gives you alot of years to smooth over the dry spells and the dynasty periods. Since 1977 they won 9 times that’s a success ratio of 26%, Since 1996 they won 7 times that’s 45%.
For some reason I think the Seattle Mariners are in it. Granted their team has no offense, and they are talking about trying to sign Prince Fielder, but the majority owner is Japanese, Ichiro Suzuki is in the last year of his contract, and if they sign Darvish, they can trade some of their young pitching for offense.
There was a rumor that Darvish wanted to play on the west coast.
Since 1977 they won 9 times that’s a success ratio of 26%, Since 1996 they won 7 times that’s 45%
==============================
Actually those numbers are 7 and 5, not 9 and 7. I see your point though. However, you have to allow for changes in the environment over time. Quite simply, it has gotten much more difficult to win titles. Started in 1969, and has gotten increasingly difficult since.
vinny-b December 15th, 2011 at 7:24 am
aka Hal is very conservative. Don’t expect NYY to sign the cuban players either. Too bad, cuz George would’ve been all over all 3 players
********
Oh BS – the Yanks started the offseason giving C.C. an extension making him one of the highest paid pitchers of all time. They are just choosing to spend their money more wisely with a cost/value criteria.
Darvish would put the Mariners comfortably past the As and into 3rd place. Can Darvish hit?
YT-
Like you said. No offense.
If they want to be Tokyo East that’s their buisness but they are not going anywhere until they get some guys who can swing a bat.
They are not spending the money to get Darvish AND Fielder IMO.
Even with Fielder their offense would still be anemic.
That’s how bad it was.
If I were in that fanbase I’d want to see my team make moves that put them into the playoffs.
That ain’t gonna do it.
Especially with the Rangers and halos as competition.
vinny b
If they bid at all, why not bid to win?
Yankee Trader December 15th, 2011 at 7:51 am
For some reason I think the Seattle Mariners are in it. Granted their team has no offense, and they are talking about trying to sign Prince Fielder, but the majority owner is Japanese, Ichiro Suzuki is in the last year of his contract, and if they sign Darvish, they can trade some of their young pitching for offense.
There was a rumor that Darvish wanted to play on the west coast.
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YT I thought about this West Coast rumor, I guess I don’t see it as a game breaker. True the West coast is 3-4 hours less air time to Japan, but having gone to Japan many times on first class they make it a little more comfortable for you.
He’s also not flying home for the weekend. Second factor could be large Asain population on the west coast, but NY has a large Asain community also. I’m not sure about his family ties, I don’t know of any but that could be a factor.
In the end I think he goes where the money takes him, unless he has some aversion to the club making the offer.
They are just choosing to spend their money more wisely with a cost/value criteria.
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Like when they signed Soriano last year?
They days of the free-wheeling, free-spending Yankees are gone.
Better get used to it.
“They days of the free-wheeling, free-spending Yankees are gone.”
The Yanks are better off being ran the way they currently are for the long term…..especially with the new rules etc……..but I still can’t help but miss George sometimes…..just how interesting he made things because you never knew what he was going to do…..the unpredictablity of the offseasons etc.
They days of the free-wheeling, free-spending Yankees are gone.
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MTU-
The new CBA and the ramifications of having a payroll over 189M for the start of the 2014 season make it very compelling and rewarding for the Yankees to be under that figure.
Plan B could be sign Kuroda for the one year salary of 12M, that he made this year, and try to sign the 19 yo Jorge Soler.
blake December 15th, 2011 at 8:04 am
“They days of the free-wheeling, free-spending Yankees are gone.”
The Yanks are better off being ran the way they currently are for the long term…..especially with the new rules etc……..but I still can’t help but miss George sometimes…..just how interesting he made things because you never knew what he was going to do…..the unpredictablity of the offseasons etc.
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Blake, agree as long as we don’t get too complacent. Seems right now there is a big bet on the farm which doesn’t always turn out the way it’s hoped. Time will tell I guess.
Blake-
Yup. definitely added color.
You never doubted his passion for the game, and for winning.
Hal seems more buisness-like.
That does not mean he doesn’t share his Father’s passion for winning. I’m sure he knows what puts butts in the seats.
The game is changing again right now and the Economy sucks.
With our Farm and strategic acqusitions based on sound footings I am very, very confident going forward.
But I am still GREEDY. And I like to dream.
Yankee fans will accept budgets and a 189 million dollar payrolls if they are winning and competing for championships …..however if they aren’t then Yankee fans will develop budgets of their own and will stop paying increasing ticket and concession prices.
Report on MLBTR says that if the Yanks get Nakajima he might be a sign and trade.
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I’m not sure that makes any sense. How do the Yankees recoup the 2.5M posting fee? Let’s say they sign him to 3 years/9M. For any team that becomes an 11.5M commitment if the Yankees want their posting fee back.
If they can’t sign him, let him go back to Japan and play.
It’s too early and I’m probably missing something or overthinking it??
gary-
I am sure the Yankees know exactly who they would and wouldn’t trade.
There are very few untouchables IMO.
Therefore, I do not think they are overly reliant on the Farm or are prospect-hugging more than they should be.
They will trade when the right opportunity arises and purchase the same way.
They will not go after every new shiny toy in sight without regard to cost.
For me that is a good thing.
Time is on our side. We have a strong, well-run organization.
And it is only gonna get better over time IMO.
I like how the Yanks are set up for the long term….and I think their shift towards player development was both a wise and necessary move……
However, Im probably one of the few that feels like the Yanks are in a championship window right now that may only be open for another year or two before it closes for a time and a new one opens. Therefore I would love to see the Yankees push a little to try and win a title now…….now I don’t mean trade away the future to do so…..but with the restrictions coming in 2014 and with Rivera, Jeter, Arod, Tex etc all aging…….Id like to see them bend a little within reason. JmO
YT-
I’m just the messenger.
I didn’t think about as deeply as you may have.
I would like for Nunez to be made available for trade if it would not hurt us.
Maybe he could be packaged with others to bring us back some fine things.
Blake-
They have all the way to the TD to set themselves up for another championship.
This is what makes it tough for the Yankees to commit to anymore long term big contracts-their payroll. This is payroll committed to salaries only. it’s higher due to teams medical,pension benefits,etc.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/sa.....e-mariners
YT-
I’m Ok with Soler. Bartolo might be a better choice for the amount of money than Kuroda.
At 12 mil he’s kinda pricey.
I still think there is time for Cash to make a move. It does not have to be Kuroda.
Prices will come down at time moves on.
edit: “as” not “at”. sorry.
MTU-
Like Nunez. However if they sign Nakajima, maybe they can trade Nunez to the Braves for Martin Prado, who is more versatile and plays both corner OF positions as well as 3rd, 2nd, 1st. If Jones signs elsewhere, they pretty much have all positions covered.
‘ morning, all –
Thr more I think about it, the more I think that the posting fee is the single biggest obstacle for a team in the Yu sweepstakes.
I don’t think teams keep a cookie jar with stray millions in it. For those sums of money – 30, 40 50, 60 M – they likely are not liquid, but invested. Therefore, to put up that large a posting fee, up front, means they have to liquidate the holding, and take $$$ out of an income generating position to give up immediately. (So, the lost income on the investment is a cost of the posting fee, also.)
Contrast that to salary, where they only have to free up a portion of the money at a time. And if the contract is back-loaded, then they have even more cash to generate profit for them for a longer period of time.
Depending on how a team/owner has their money invested could be as big a deteminant here, if not more, than how they view Yu’s ability as a pitcher.
YT-
That’s what I meant. Nunez might have appeal to a # of teams.
Maybe they sign and trade Naky. Who knows.
Maybe they do zilch.
We’ll see.
Cashman is a patient hunter. We know that much.
Joe-
Pat M. made that point last night.
About the posting fee.
That’s a big chunk of change.
It might represent an obstacle to a lot of teams.
# blake December 15th, 2011 at 8:13 am
Yankee fans will accept budgets and a 189 million dollar payrolls if they are winning and competing for championships …..however if they aren’t then Yankee fans will develop budgets of their own and will stop paying increasing ticket and concession prices.
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And if that happens the Yankees will have no problem exceeding the 189 self imposed cap.
Joe-
The posting fee is not paid until the contract is signed. Is it put into a separate interest bearing account?
“And if that happens the Yankees will have no problem exceeding the 189 self imposed cap”
I agree….its fine to plan to stay under that number…..but they have to win or they’ll lose more money than they save.
so im guessing that there’s about 5 or 6 dozen people who post on here staying constantly connected to thier twitter account hoping to be the first to post the news on here of who won the Yu lottery…we should have a prize…
That’s a lot of seats and concessions they’ll need to sell to turn down the 40M in savings plus the added 50% on every dollar above 189M, in 2014 alone:
So maybe they will break again this time. But as an organization, they are saying they are driven to have a payroll of $189 million or less in 2014 when that becomes the luxury tax threshold. Because the incentives that come via the new CBA are just too great for them to ignore.
For if they are at $189 million or less for the three seasons from 2014-16, they not only avoid paying one cent in luxury tax, which would rise to 50 percent for them as repeat offenders, but they also would get roughly $40 million in savings via the to-be-implemented market disqualification revenue sharing program. However, only teams under the luxury-tax threshold get reimbursed in this program, which is designed to prevent big markets such as Toronto and Washington from receiving revenue sharing dollars, which in turn will lower how much teams such as the Yanks pay (as long as they are under the threshold).
And even if they just went under $189 million for 2014 before going over again in 2015, the Yankees would receive serious benefits. They would get about $10 million in the revenue sharing disqualification program. Also, by simply going under the threshold once, the Yankees would go back to having a 17.5 percent tax rather than the 50 percent that begins in 2014 for them if they never go under. Keep in mind that since the luxury tax went to 40 percent for them in 2005, the Yankees have averaged paying $25.75 million in tax annually
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z1gbvFQP3k
Blake-
Cano, Montero, and Upton will make a nice new core.
# blake December 15th, 2011 at 8:41 am
“And if that happens the Yankees will have no problem exceeding the 189 self imposed cap”
I agree….its fine to plan to stay under that number…..but they have to win or they’ll lose more money than they save.
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Exactly we all know when it comes to winning the Yankees will make the moves they need to make. Is the goal to get under or around 189 sure but if a stud becomes available and the Yankees fell he is worth the money does anyone seriously believe they’ll pass on him. They’ll pass on the CJ Wilson’s of the world who are good not great.
Got to go. Hopefully the Ham Fighters will announce today that they have accepted the bid, and leak the $$$ amount, so that some executive can put 2+2 together and leak that it was their team that posted the amount.
And
CC
Hamels
Nova
Hughes
Banuelos
Will make one heck of a Ro.
I remember reading at some point that Cashman and crew look at the FA markets years out. So, the moves they make or don’t make this year are impacted by what is going to be (or they are hopeful will be) available next season or the next.
This is not a stellar FA class, and the two impact position players (Pujols and Fielder) are at an area where the Yankees do not have need.
I do wonder, though, if anyone in their wildest dreams thought Pujols would be available, would the Yankees have pushed for Teixeira in 2008? And how would that have impacted the last 3 years? It’s just a thought.
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