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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Little progress between Yankees and Andruw Jones

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 21, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Andruw Jones seems to be a natural fit for the Yankees bench, and the Yankees have publicly admitted that they’re interested in bringing him back, but a Jones return might not be as easy as originally thought.

Mark Feinsand reports this morning that the Yankees and Jones have made little progress on a new deal, and he has a source who indicates multiple teams are in the mix to sign Jones. Feinsand has reason to believe the Red Sox are one of those teams.

Like the Yankees, the Red Sox have a left-heavy outfield. In fact, the Red Sox projected starting outfield is entirely left-handed, leaving a natural fit for Jones as a platoon player off the bench.

For the Yankees, Jones would play a similar platoon role, the same one he played last season. The free agent market offers plenty of other right-handed outfielders, but replacing Jones might require taking a risk on a less-proven player or convincing an established player to take a diminished contract and diminished role.

The Yankees currently have lefty Chris Dickerson and righty Justin Maxwell to compete for outfield bench jobs.

 
 

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256 Responses to “Little progress between Yankees and Andruw Jones”

  1. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:03 am

    “Probably will, but that’s a double edge sword. Once you exclude the Betances, Montero, Banuelos names from the proceedings, you’re then talking about prospects packages that a lot of other teams who might be interested in Danks can compete with.”

    Here is the thing though ….how many teams actually would be a fit for Danks? It would have to be a contending team that needs pitching…..is willing to take on 8 or so million in payroll…..and is willing to deal prospects for a rental……the Rangers are probably out now on him……who else fits besides the Yanks?

  2. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Shame must be jumping for joy at the title of this post. ;)

  3. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:07 am

    joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:02 am
    Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 8:56 am
    Not sure why the Yanks aren’t in on Oswalt on a ONE year deal. I know the back injuries draw some red flags… But its just a one year deal. prior to Last year Colon had some injuries and the Yankees still took a shot on him.

    ———————————————————
    I believe his back issues started after he took time off to go back home because of the massive tornado outbreak, he did have a issue with his back but some of the time he missed wasn’t because of the injury

  4. Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Joeman –

    I believe his back issues started after he took time off to go back home because of the massive tornado outbreak, he did have a issue with his back but some of the time he missed wasn’t because of the injury
    ———————

    joeman— Even with the back injuries… I’d still take a shot. ( if its a one year deal ) . ,, Oswalt wants to prove he’s healthy.,,,,, . so some incentive could make him pitch well. you never know

  5. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 9:10 am

    :mad:

  6. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 9:11 am

    :mad: :mad: :mad:

  7. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Oswalt has been healthy having 7 straight years of starting 30+ games, one year contract is a no brainer for the Yankees unless they have bigger plans

  8. upstate kate December 21st, 2011 at 9:11 am

    what are you mad about LGY?

  9. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Here is the thing though ….how many teams actually would be a fit for Danks? It would have to be a contending team that needs pitching…..is willing to take on 8 or so million in payroll…..and is willing to deal prospects for a rental

    =============================

    Tigers? Cardinals? Nats and Jays? I don’t know. Not really sold on the idea Williams will move him this winter anyway. Think he might wait til the TD.

  10. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:16 am

    DF,

    Maybe not…..he may risk getting less at the deadline though. Also…..while the Yanks wont give their top guys for him….I can’t see any other organization doing so either.

    LGY needs bacon.

  11. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 9:17 am

    what are you mad about LGY?

    ——-

    My plan to sign KURODA and bring Andruw back is falling apart!

  12. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:17 am

    While I wouldn’t mind Andrew back…….I don’t really think they need him.

  13. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Uh oh. What’s wrong LGY?

  14. upstate kate December 21st, 2011 at 9:19 am

    internet bacon on its way to LGY…don’t worry, it is not Canadian bacon :)

  15. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:19 am

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:03 am
    “Probably will, but that’s a double edge sword. Once you exclude the Betances, Montero, Banuelos names from the proceedings, you’re then talking about prospects packages that a lot of other teams who might be interested in Danks can compete with.”

    Here is the thing though ….how many teams actually would be a fit for Danks? It would have to be a contending team that needs pitching…..is willing to take on 8 or so million in payroll…..and is willing to deal prospects for a rental……the Rangers are probably out now on him……who else fits besides the Yanks?

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Morning Blake, well I’m back in upstate NY for the Holidays. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    I admire your passion for Danks, maybe it will happen, but without any of the names you talked about I think it’s doubtful. I’ve just kind of given up. I don’t see anything coming for a top flight pitcher as I think the pieces won’t be on the table to get anybody decent. It’s becoming more obvious that they are willing to take the gamble with CC, Hughes, AJ, Nova, Freedie and possibly whatever deal they can bring along. Must be that Brian has the full support of management, seems to me like he has his neck stuck out here.

  16. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:21 am

    joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:11 am
    Oswalt has been healthy having 7 straight years of starting 30+ games, one year contract is a no brainer for the Yankees unless they have bigger plans

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Joeman is it really down to picking up guys like this?

  17. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:21 am
    joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:11 am
    Oswalt has been healthy having 7 straight years of starting 30+ games, one year contract is a no brainer for the Yankees unless they have bigger plans

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Joeman is it really down to picking up guys like this?

    ———————
    explain

  18. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Gary,

    Little temp difference there huh…..yea I just think he would be a good fit if KW would deal fairly……but he hasn’t so far……so we shall see.

  19. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:24 am

    LGY December 21st, 2011 at 9:17 am
    what are you mad about LGY?

    ——-

    My plan to sign KURODA and bring Andruw back is falling apart!

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    LG join the club, many plans have fallen apart. I think we all thought the talk and the spin was just that coming out of Cash. I’m still hopeful to some degree, but we may really have thought it was postering, but turned out to be the absolute truth.

    Has he said anything this week? I haven’t seen any reaction to the Darvish thing? Should we expect to hear anything?

  20. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Oswalt has chronic back pain you want to sign that? No thanks. Oswalt is not going to improve this team in any fashion.

  21. Yankee Trader December 21st, 2011 at 9:25 am

    While I wouldn’t mind Andrew back…….I don’t really think they need him.
    ——————————————

    Blake-

    Feel the same way. Still can’t hit off-speed stuff, and useless against righties-.172 BA. Go get Martin Prado, although I think the Braves were trying to entice teams to take injury prone Jair Jurrgens off their hands by including arb eligible Prado.

  22. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Perhaps the Yanks wanna see where things go with Cespedes before committing to Jonesy?

  23. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:26 am

    joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:22 am
    Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:21 am
    joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:11 am
    Oswalt has been healthy having 7 straight years of starting 30+ games, one year contract is a no brainer for the Yankees unless they have bigger plans

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Joeman is it really down to picking up guys like this?

    ———————
    explain

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I was hoping for someone a little younger with a little more of a long term opportunity. We already have enough old guys. My comment was is this the option that the Yanks have left to them?

  24. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:26 am

    “Oswalt has chronic back pain you want to sign that? No thanks. Oswalt is not going to improve this team in any fashion.”

    Eh….Id rather have Oswalt in the rotation than AJ……but yea Im not sure he’s the kind of upgrade they are looking for at this point. Back injuries never really go away…..

  25. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:21 am
    joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:11 am
    Oswalt has been healthy having 7 straight years of starting 30+ games, one year contract is a no brainer for the Yankees unless they have bigger plans

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Joeman is it really down to picking up guys like this?
    ——————-
    Yankees did it twice last year with Garcia and Colon & Oswalt is a better SP than both of them

  26. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 9:27 am

    don’t worry, it is not Canadian bacon

    ——–

    Good. I can’t risk sending the message that I want Martin signed to an extension.

  27. Yankee Trader December 21st, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Tim Hudson just had back surgery. Too iffy to sign Oswalt for what-8-10M, and hope/pray that he can pitch thru the season and not pull a David Wells in the playoffs.

  28. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Oswalt might pitch worse than AJ in the AL. Soft tossers rarely survive. Freddy was a miracle.

  29. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Trader,

    Id like to get Prado also….the Braves can be difficult to deal with though.

  30. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:28 am

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:22 am
    Gary,

    Little temp difference there huh…..yea I just think he would be a good fit if KW would deal fairly……but he hasn’t so far……so we shall see.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Not so bad but I am bundled up. What other pieces do we have to offer that could make a deal other than the names you mentioned?

  31. Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Oswalt has chronic back pain you want to sign that? No thanks. Oswalt is not going to improve this team in any fashion.

    ——————————–

    On a one year deal . . .sure why not . If he stinks …. he goes….. Theres not much risk on a one year deal. Did we honestly think Freddy Garcia and Colon were going to improve the team last year ??? most of us last year said no.

    I just don’t see the harm

  32. hardwired7 December 21st, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Offer Andruw $1M for his bat, and another $1M for his smile.

  33. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:30 am

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:26 am
    “Oswalt has chronic back pain you want to sign that? No thanks. Oswalt is not going to improve this team in any fashion.”

    Eh….Id rather have Oswalt in the rotation than AJ……but yea Im not sure he’s the kind of upgrade they are looking for at this point. Back injuries never really go away…..

    ———————————
    don’t know if I would call it chronic, most people don’t get thru life without some sort of back pain from time to time

  34. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Andruw: Give me 3M and I’ll come back

    Cash: 3M?!? But the budget! Joel Sherman article!! 2014!!!

  35. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Maybe not…..he may risk getting less at the deadline though.

    =======================

    You’re right about the potential risk, but it also comes with potential reward. Really depends on what happens with Garza and Gonzalez this winter. Both are far more appealing options due to years of control and/or talent level. In theory, Williams is competing with those GM’s for high end return and to some degree he’s bringing a knife to a gunfight.

    On the other hand, lets say he holds on to Danks into the 2012 season. He starts off fast, improving over his rather lackluster 2011 performance (another reason Williams position is diminished now) and suddenly has appeal to any number of who think they are legitimately contending fo a playoff spot in July. With Garza and Gonzalez out of the picture, Williams may have the best option on the market.

    Could blow up in his face too, of course. But if he’s not scoring what he’s looking for now, there isn’t much reason to settle.

  36. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Mike Ri – For the same deal/money, I’d much rather have Kuroda.

  37. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Yankee Trader December 21st, 2011 at 9:27 am
    Tim Hudson just had back surgery. Too iffy to sign Oswalt for what-8-10M, and hope/pray that he can pitch thru the season and not pull a David Wells in the playoffs.

    ———————
    he went thru the month of Sept pitching well without any issues

  38. Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Mike Ri ? For the same deal/money, I?d much rather have Kuroda.


    ID -

    I’d rather have Kuroda too. .

  39. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Oswalt has not pitched a full, healthy season since 2008.

  40. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Oswalt is a soft tosser? News to him, 91+ mph FB

  41. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:36 am

    whats Kuroda looking for years & just wondering if that is his correct age

  42. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 9:38 am

    whats Kuroda looking for years & just wondering if that is his correct age

    Uh why wouldn’t it be? And 1.

  43. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 9:39 am

    YankeesWFAN First official day of winter. Yankee pitchers and catchers report in 60 days.

  44. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 9:39 am

    That’s right Erin!! Not the part about the Sox trying to sign him but I’m anti-Andruw in general. If he does go over the the Sox it could give us an excuse to just sign Beltran though :D

  45. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 9:39 am

    jerkface – he only throws 60% fastballs, maybe “soft tosser” is a little harsh

  46. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 9:34 am
    Oswalt has not pitched a full, healthy season since 2008.

    —————————————-
    he gets 32+ starts a year since 2004 except last year, whats he miss a couple of starts a year

  47. Yankee Trader December 21st, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Oswalt just came off 16M dollars on the final year of his contract, 15M the year before. He’s not going to be signed for what Garcia got guaranteed[1.5M].

    If they wanted to go the injury prone route, Erik Bedard at the 4.5M the Pirates gave him would have been better investment.

    Maybe Kuroda will not take the “mystery” team offer from a Japanese team and come to NY.

  48. MTU December 21st, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Jones has that smile because he has the head Trainer keep a bottle of Nitrous Oxide available just for him in the locker room.

    What the heck do you think he does between innings ?

    See you all later.

    :)

  49. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 9:38 am
    whats Kuroda looking for years & just wondering if that is his correct age

    Uh why wouldn’t it be? And 1.

    ——————-
    think he wants more than one

  50. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 9:29 am
    Oswalt has chronic back pain you want to sign that? No thanks. Oswalt is not going to improve this team in any fashion.

    ——————————–

    On a one year deal . . .sure why not . If he stinks …. he goes….. Theres not much risk on a one year deal. Did we honestly think Freddy Garcia and Colon were going to improve the team last year ??? most of us last year said no.

    I just don’t see the harm

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I hoped that basically Freddie and Bartollo could have a .500 outcome last year and they were a combined 20-18 so they did what I expected. Hughes was .500 and so was AJ. It’s a testament to how much CC, Nova and the bullpen carried the staff. Could a patchwork staff again produce like last year, maybe but it’s a risk.

  51. yanks61 December 21st, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Apologies if this has already been reported here (from MLBTR):

    “As Yahoo’s Tim Brown reported yesterday, one club involved in the Carlos Beltran derby should expect a Christmas gift before Sunday, as Beltran is expected to decide on his new team this week. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch hears the same thing, noting that Beltran is weighing a variety of two- and three-year contract offers from five different clubs. Based on various reports, including Goold’s, the Blue Jays, Red Sox, Rays, Cardinals, and one other NL team are believed to be in on the 34-year-old.”

    No Jones, no Beltran? Do the Yanks go into the season with D..kerson, Maxwell as the 4th OF?

  52. Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Yankee Trader

    Oswalt just came off 16M dollars on the final year of his contract, 15M the year before. He?s not going to be signed for what Garcia got guaranteed[1.5M].

    ——

    Oswalt main priority isn’t money — Its to prove he’s healthy on a one year deal,, . so i think he’ll take a discount of some sort…

    Lets say its 5 to 8 with some incentives . For one year…. its a no brainer.

  53. upstate kate December 21st, 2011 at 9:43 am

    have a good hike MTU!

  54. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 9:43 am

    jerkface – he only throws 60% fastballs, maybe “soft tosser” is a little harsh

    I don’t want Oswalt, but dude, really? Ivan Nova only threw 61% fastballs. CC 59.1%. 60%~ fastballs is pretty common for people not named Phil Hughes who actually have more than 1 successful pitch.

    It leaves enough room for Fastballs, 2 good offspeeds/breaking pitches, and a third change of pace.

  55. Yankee Trader December 21st, 2011 at 9:45 am

    Kuroda wants 12M, same as last year.

    by Gen on Dec.21, 2011 @ 12:10 pm, under MLB

    Daily Sports is reporting that six teams + the Hiroshima Carp are interested in Kuroda. They also mention that the Arizona Diamondbacks and New York Yankees offered deals worth around 1B yen a year, more three times the amount the Hiroshima Carp supposedly offered (300M yen a year).

    Kuroda apparently wants to decide on where he will be play next season before the end of the year and will consider all offers that are on the table.

    The D-Backs are probably out after signing Kubel.

  56. ADam December 21st, 2011 at 9:45 am

    Just resign him…. Chavez to and be done with it.

  57. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 9:46 am

    MLB Teams offered contracts 3x the amount of the NPB team interested in Kuroda? But but but…

  58. Yankee Trader December 21st, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Mike Ri

    5M plus incentives if the medicals [MRI] are positive, but I think there’s a team out there that will overpay.

  59. Ys Guy December 21st, 2011 at 9:47 am

    uh oh! everybody get mad! he mentioned the Red Socks! Could it be possible that we’re gonna lose a bench player to the red socks! Fire the cannon, push the red button, offer jones $20 Million ANYTHING to keep him off the red socks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  60. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 9:48 am

    yanks61 December 21st, 2011 at 9:43 am
    Apologies if this has already been reported here (from MLBTR):

    “As Yahoo’s Tim Brown reported yesterday, one club involved in the Carlos Beltran derby should expect a Christmas gift before Sunday, as Beltran is expected to decide on his new team this week. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch hears the same thing, noting that Beltran is weighing a variety of two- and three-year contract offers from five different clubs. Based on various reports, including Goold’s, the Blue Jays, Red Sox, Rays, Cardinals, and one other NL team are believed to be in on the 34-year-old.”

    No Jones, no Beltran? Do the Yanks go into the season with D..kerson, Maxwell as the 4th OF?
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Brian said the OF was set, the offense was set and there was no need to rush for a bench player or two and that could wait until he is done refusing all offers to try to get any SP. Given the act that he has been consistent this winter I take him at his word. Yanks do like Jones, perhaps he does have a chance at coming back.

  61. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 9:48 am

    An interesting read for those going ballistic about the lack of spending in the Bronx:

    http://www.grantland.com/story.....pons-bronx

    I especially agreed with this paragraph:

    It’s a shallow group of free agents by historical standards. Only three players will end up with nine-figure contracts, with seven players likely to rake in $50 million or more. The positions those few elite free agents play mostly ran up against the Yankees’ biggest strengths and areas of depth: Mark Teixeira’s got five years left on his $180 million deal and Jesus Montero is poised to become the next star in the Bronx, so there was no room for Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder. Derek Jeter’s nearing the end, but signing Jose Reyes or Jimmy Rollins was still a practical impossibility. A loaded class of closers is irrelevant when you’ve got Mariano Rivera, not to mention nasty setup man David Robertson waiting in the wings.

  62. MTU December 21st, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Thanks Kate.

    Catch you later.

    :)

  63. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:52 am

    “In theory, Williams is competing with those GM’s for high end return and to some degree he’s bringing a knife to a gunfight.”

    Precisely ….

  64. joeman December 21st, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Oswalt on the DL 3 times in his 11 year ML career……

  65. Ys Guy December 21st, 2011 at 9:54 am

    oswalt hates ny if he comes its a money grab.

  66. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Gary,

    The Yanks have some attractive secondary pieces that should interest teams…..you’re not getting Garza or Gonzalez for those guys but Im not sure what Williams thinks the market should be for a pitcher coming off his worst season that’s in his walk year…..

  67. Yankee Trader December 21st, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Compadres-

    Have to go too. Until later all. Have a great day. Maybe the Steinbrenners will have a nice present for all of come X-MAS. :)

  68. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Hmmm.. Is Shane Spencer available? :D

  69. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 9:56 am

    but Im not sure what Williams thinks the market should be for a pitcher coming off his worst season that’s in his walk year

    ==================

    All the more reason for him to wait til July

  70. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Oswalt is the opposite of a soft tosser……he’s always been a guy who challenges hitters and that’s the issue now because his stuff has taken a step back.

  71. ac1 December 21st, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Oswalt on the DL 3 times in his 11 year ML career……

    __

    But 2 of those were last year no?

  72. mick December 21st, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Jamie Moyer to a minor league contract-ST invite.

  73. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Jones in the catbird seat right now. It would be a real shame if the Yanks can’t bring him back next year, because he fit in so well for what the Yanks needed from him. I don’t see a similar player available on the market. Dickerson is a nice player, but he really is not what I envision in a bench outfield option: I want an old guy, who knows how to win, with pop in his bat, like Strawberry, Raines, or Sierra–somebody with presence that makes the opposing manager think twice before making a pitching change.

  74. blake December 21st, 2011 at 9:58 am

    “All the more reason for him to wait til July”

    Now there is merit to hoping he pitches well in the first half……..but I still can’t see teams giving their top guys for him at that point …..he’s not Cliff Lee.

  75. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 9:58 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Jamie Moyer to a minor league contract-ST invite.
    ======

    Really? With the Yanks?

  76. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 9:59 am

    YT-that would fit a pattern, since we got presents (CC and Garcia) on Halloween and Thanksgiving ;)

  77. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:00 am

    It’s always seemed to me lke Oswalt really doesn’t like the Yankees. I would be interested in him, but I’m pretty sure that he wouldn’t come to NY

  78. Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 10:00 am

    im going to have to pass on Jamie Moyer

  79. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Just kidding, but would do it.

  80. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:01 am

    maybe Livan Hernandez.

  81. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Now there is merit to hoping he pitches well in the first half……..but I still can’t see teams giving their top guys for him at that point …..he’s not Cliff Lee.

    =====================

    Not really advocating any team trading their top guys for him, but I don’t see the White Sox bargaining position getting any worse than it is now, and depending on what happens with some other P’s, it could get considerably better.

  82. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Me too. I would bet that Moyer could still be pretty effective.

  83. blake December 21st, 2011 at 10:05 am

    DF,

    That’s fair……

  84. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:07 am

    ADam December 21st, 2011 at 9:45 am

    Just resign him…. Chavez to and be done with it.
    ============

    I’m not so sure that I would bring back Chavez. I like the guy, but he’s way too injury prone. Beyond that, I was really disappointed in how little power he showed at the plate. Remember the series against the Tigers, when Girardi pinch-hit with Chavez to get some pop off the bench? How sad was that?

  85. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:10 am

    I liked what Andruw brought to the team last year – but I’m not going to sweat it out if he winds up with someone else.

    I would really like to see what Maxwell has to offer (potentially as a replacement for Swisher next year).

    I think Dickerson will likely be traded this spring for a similar player who does have minor league options remaining.

    As for a real thumper for the bench – useful yes – but other than Brett Gardner, who are you really pinch hitting for on this team?

  86. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 10:11 am

    I would really like to see what Maxwell has to offer (potentially as a replacement for Swisher next year).

    Here is a hint, Maxwell won’t be a replacement for Swisher.

  87. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Erin December 21st, 2011 at 9:59 am
    YT-that would fit a pattern, since we got presents (CC and Garcia) on Halloween and Thanksgiving

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Erin at the risk of being negative, I don’t see how that happens. At nausea we have heard the drumbeat from Cash about his assessment of the club and his view about trading any of prospects. I think other clubs may well have decided that the Yanks are being unreasonable also on what they are offering and moved on. We have heard it for so long now it’s hard to imagine that any big deal comes off for a top flight guy.

  88. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:13 am

    “Remember the series against the Tigers, when Girardi pinch-hit with Chavez to get some pop off the bench? How sad was that?”

    I never really thought of Chavez as a guy with a lot of pop.. I still think that situation was grossly mismanaged by Uncle Joe, I don’t know that it should be used in the case against Chavez.

  89. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:13 am

    My bench:

    Maxwell, Cervelli, Nunez, Casey Kotchman or Wilson Betemit (or trade for Dan Murphy)

  90. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:14 am

    “As for a real thumper for the bench – useful yes – but other than Brett Gardner, who are you really pinch hitting for on this team?”

    I’m sure Uncle Joe will come up with something… and drive us all insane as a result.

  91. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:00 am
    It’s always seemed to me lke Oswalt really doesn’t like the Yankees. I would be interested in him, but I’m pretty sure that he wouldn’t come to NY

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I think Oswalt has always been a NL pitcher and wants to stay there. The guys over there love striking out the opposing pitcher as opposed to the DH here. Perhaps it works out that he gets no offers or no money to stay there, but I only see him coming to the AL if it’s a last resort.

  92. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am

    I would really like to see what Maxwell has to offer (potentially as a replacement for Swisher next year).

    =======================

    Not much evidence to suggest that Maxwell is anything more than a 4th/5th outfielder at the big league level.

  93. ac1 December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Wilson Betemit?

  94. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 10:11 am
    I would really like to see what Maxwell has to offer (potentially as a replacement for Swisher next year).

    Here is a hint, Maxwell won’t be a replacement for Swisher.

    ———–

    Uh-huh – because you’re always right.

    If Maxwell can play like he was last year until he got hurt – he’ll have a shot at it.

  95. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:17 am

    ac1 December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Wilson Betemit?

    ——————

    A vital cog for a club making a run at a championship ;)

  96. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:14 am
    “As for a real thumper for the bench – useful yes – but other than Brett Gardner, who are you really pinch hitting for on this team?”

    I’m sure Uncle Joe will come up with something… and drive us all insane as a result.

    ———–

    I think he saves that for the pitching

  97. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Gary-actually I don’t think anything will happen either.

    I just liked the little holiday pattern they had going on there. ;)

  98. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 10:18 am

    I think Oswalt has always been a NL pitcher and wants to stay there

    ==========================

    Particularly true given that he hopes to use his one year as a showcase to demonstrate he is healthy and can get hitters out. Don’t see the AL East as the ideal spot for trying to make that point.

  99. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Unless he can turn like half of his strikeouts into walks, Maxwell will only dream about being Nick Swisher.

  100. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:13 am

    “Remember the series against the Tigers, when Girardi pinch-hit with Chavez to get some pop off the bench? How sad was that?”

    I never really thought of Chavez as a guy with a lot of pop.. I still think that situation was grossly mismanaged by Uncle Joe, I don’t know that it should be used in the case against Chavez.

    =====

    He used to have some power. In fact, that is what I was expecting/hoping for when the Yanks signed him in last year. I just don’t like the idea of having a bunch of Punch-and-Judy-type hitters on the bench.

  101. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:19 am

    dogface December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am
    I would really like to see what Maxwell has to offer (potentially as a replacement for Swisher next year).

    =======================

    Not much evidence to suggest that Maxwell is anything more than a 4th/5th outfielder at the big league level.

    ———-

    You might be right – but I would like to at least give him the chance by having him on the big league bench this year.

  102. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:20 am

    I thought the Yankees lost last year because they didn’t have enough slap hitters? :p Could have sworn I read that here somewhere lol…

  103. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:14 am

    “As for a real thumper for the bench – useful yes – but other than Brett Gardner, who are you really pinch hitting for on this team?”
    =====

    It one of those things: You never need one, until you need one.

  104. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:20 am

    ac1 December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am
    Wilson Betemit?

    ———

    Sure – why not? Switch hitter with some power who can play both infield corners – there are worse things to have on the bench.

  105. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:21 am

    ac1 December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am
    Wilson Betemit?

    ———

    Sure – why not? Switch hitter with some power who can play both infield corners – there are worse things to have on the bench.

    ——–

    That said, if Eric Chavez doesn’t retire, I wouldn’t be against bringing him back.

  106. longtimefan December 21st, 2011 at 10:22 am

    IMO, the yankees have an entirely different philosophy since the Boss died. Go thru the motions, say the politically correct things, rein in spending and win enough just to keep the fans coming back and the tv and ad revenue coming in–remember the yankess are still the biggest draw in baseball–they have the perfect gm and manager to carry out that philosophy.

  107. austinmac December 21st, 2011 at 10:22 am

    So Oswalt coming to New York would be a money grab. As opposed to those who come for the love of the game? They all play where they play for the money.

    I prefer Kuroda, but an incentive laden Oswalt contract would be worth a try.

    As I have been saying for two months, Cashman doesn’t want to spend significant money. I was hoping he would for a one year deal, but now I doubt that too.

    If Cashman thought Yu too risky for a big investment, he will get nowhere near Cespedes. I predict no involvement at all.

    For those dreaming of Hamels, don’t. He will likely re-sign with the Phils, and if he doesn’t he is far too expensive.

    The team will rise or fall over the next few years on their young pitching.

    Maxwell or Dickerson as the only outfield depth is insanity. Both are career minor leaguers. The key element of the Yankee regular season success was their bench. I hope they remember that.

  108. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Haha, Chip I wish you were right but some of the line-up stuff I’m convinced is designed to get under the skin of certain posters lol

  109. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:23 am

    longtimefan – Yes, not flailing around spending wildly on the whims of a madman has it’s advantages for all corners of the franchise.

  110. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:24 am

    “Not much evidence to suggest that Maxwell is anything more than a 4th/5th outfielder at the big league level.”

    People on here are still saying the same thing about Gardner :D Incidentally.. did we trade him yet???

  111. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:18 am
    Unless he can turn like half of his strikeouts into walks, Maxwell will only dream about being Nick Swisher.

    ———-

    Granted it was in an abbreviated minor league season – but he did post a .358 OBP – that’s fine if he’s going to show the kind of power he had to go with it.

    Like I said – I’m not penning him in there – but I would like to give him a bench spot to see what he can do – and see if maybe he’s a late bloomer like a Werth or Bautista – rather than turning it over to Andruw who was an adventure in the OF.

  112. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:25 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:21 am

    ac1 December 21st, 2011 at 10:15 am
    Wilson Betemit?

    ==========

    Betamit sounds about right to me.

  113. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 10:25 am

    Uh-huh – because you’re always right.

    I’m right a lot, and its pretty obvious when there is a huge disparity between 2 players you’re comparing. Justin Maxwell is 28 and has not yet established any kind of regular role in the majors. Nick Swisher is 31 and has been a regular since he was a 24. Maxwell will likely never be as good as Nick Swisher because right now he can only get close in the minors. And he still struck out 35% of the time in the minors! That’s like twice as often as Nick Swisher whiffs.

  114. Joe from Long Island December 21st, 2011 at 10:25 am

    austinmac – hi.

    i tend to agree with your comments, except about hamels. i don’t know how likely his re-signing with phils is, and i think he’s such a better talent than the starters in general, let alone this year’s crop, that i think he’d be worth a larger than average expenditure.

    long range thinking, i know. hope winter’s been good to you so far.

  115. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 10:26 am

    People on here are still saying the same thing about Gardner

    Foolish people maybe, Gardner had a good track record of doing things well in the minors. Justin Maxwell is a nothing player.

  116. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Must say that at end of the day it is what it is…
    Forget what last years catchphrase was? Anybody?

  117. blake December 21st, 2011 at 10:28 am

    The Yanks need to make two decisions in the outfield. 1) is Gardner a long term solution 2) is Swisher?

    They need to decide if Swisher isn’t then who is? And try to plan a bit IMO

  118. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:23 am
    longtimefan – Yes, not flailing around spending wildly on the whims of a madman has it’s advantages for all corners of the franchise.

    ———

    Everything George did was governed by the sole principle of winning; putting the best product on the field year in and year out and giving fans their money’s worth.

    Did he always go about it the right way? No. But watching some of the other owners not just in baseball but in all sports, cling to their pennies, deal off players who become “too expensive” and then complain that they need to move established franchises because of lack of team support – I think baseball could use a lot more George Steinbrenners. Sadly, the cronism that has gone on since the 1994 strike with the league office will never allow that.

  119. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:29 am

    How can you say the organization will keep the team competitive enough to keep butts in the seats and not recognize that doing that every season (!!!) is the reason the Yanks are the “biggest draw in baseball”? Its the consistency that’s unreal. Winning at least 90 games a season gives them a chance every year to compete for the WS. As Jeter has said, consistency is a highly underrated attribute.

  120. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Of course I do agree that Maxwell could sit on the bench for the Yankees. I just don’t think he is going to turn into a viable replacement for Nick Swisher.

  121. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Rule of thumb: Your stats generally get worse from the minors to the majors, which is why people who are successful and strike out a lot in the majors tended to not strike out as much in the minors. Adam Dunn, Mike Stanton, etc. No one hits .240/.350/.500 in the minors and then magically transports the same line to the majors. It probably ends up like .200/.280/.450

  122. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Chip – Maxwell seems like a guy that could use some Kevin Long Love… How you average more than a strikeout per game as one or your most apparent “skills” for as long as he has is almost impressive.:p

    If he got that sorted out he could be downright incredible.

  123. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:32 am

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 10:28 am
    The Yanks need to make two decisions in the outfield. 1) is Gardner a long term solution 2) is Swisher?

    They need to decide if Swisher isn’t then who is? And try to plan a bit IMO

    ———–

    My opinion of Gardner is that he’s a nice player but he’s only valuable to the team as long as he’s inexpensive. Once he starts getting to the arbitration years his value (like that of Melky’s) is going to decrease to the team.

    As for Swisher – I like him; I like his passion, his attitude in general and he’s a decent player and a better fielder than he gets credit for. But if he’s going to look for a big money deal I would pass.

  124. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Swisher is in his walk year, never underestimate a player in his walk year.

  125. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Of course I do agree that Maxwell could sit on the bench for the Yankees. I just don’t think he is going to turn into a viable replacement for Nick Swisher.

    —————-

    LOL, me either Jerkface, I was just being cheeky about Gardner. I’m patiently awaiting the arrival of Williams, Santana, and Heathcott. Maybe one of them will be better than Swish and/or Gardner.

  126. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:31 am
    Chip – Maxwell seems like a guy that could use some Kevin Long Love… How you average more than a strikeout per game as one or your most apparent “skills” for as long as he has is almost impressive.:p

    If he got that sorted out he could be downright incredible.

    ——–

    It seemed (again small sample size) that in Spring Training he was getting some of that K-Long love and was putting it to good use in AAA. Again, I’m not looking at him as the second coming – but I think I would give him an extended look.

    I also think that if Jones leaves, Jorge Vazquez could get a long look for that role of RH power bat on the bench.

  127. austinmac December 21st, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Hello Joe,

    Good winter thus far with my first grandchild born. Fun stuff.

    About Hamels, the Phils seem all in on him from what Amaro has said, and I doubt the Yankees want another $20+M contract. But, strangely enough the Yankees don’t keep me in the loop with their thinking.

    As far as Maxwell goes, look at his strike out rate in the minors. It is Vazquezian(new word of the day).

  128. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:35 am

    El Chato is trade bait.

  129. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Granted it was in an abbreviated minor league season – but he did post a .358 OBP – that’s fine if he’s going to show the kind of power he had to go with it.

    =================================

    .358 OBP…….in his 3rd straight season of AAA.

    In the bigs? He has struck out in nearly 40% of his at bats.

  130. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Chip – Maxwell seems like a guy that could use some Kevin Long Love… How you average more than a strikeout per game as one or your most apparent “skills” for as long as he has is almost impressive.:p

    If he got that sorted out he could be downright incredible.
    ========

    Perhaps. But his track record is pretty bad–pretty sparse, actually for a 28-year-old. However, the sample size on his stats is really small. It all could change for him in an instant. Still, I’m not about to run out and place any bets on it happening any time soon…

  131. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Chip – My opinion of Gardner is that he’s a nice player but he’s only valuable to the team as long as he’s inexpensive. Once he starts getting to the arbitration years his value (like that of Melky’s) is going to decrease to the team.

    So Gardner is like… every player in baseball? How many players in baseball don’t lose value as they start making more money?

    Gardner can turn a profit easily up to about $15mil/year before you have to start worrying about his wheels carrying him..

  132. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Jorge Vazquez could get a long look for that role of RH power bat on the bench.
    =========================================
    Since he cant play the OF, not happening.

  133. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Braves apparently offered Jurrjens, Prado and a pitching prospect to the O’s for Adam Jones and the O’s said no.

    Probably the right move for Baltimore. JJ is a solid pitcher but he’s got some injury issues and the Braves seem a little too motivated to move him, which always makes me nervous.

  134. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:39 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:38 am
    Jorge Vazquez could get a long look for that role of RH power bat on the bench.
    =========================================
    Since he cant play the OF, not happening.

    ———-

    If you have a bench of: Maxwell, Cervelli, and Nunez – you need a guy who can play 1b/3b not an OF

  135. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:40 am

    So Gardner is like… every player in baseball?

    =====

    :lol: Imagine!

  136. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Jones was the 4th OF, that’s more than just a bench player. Maxwell is not in Jones class and is just a late inning replacement for Swisher.
    Chavez , if you want a 1b/3b.

  137. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Jones was the 4th OF for a lot of unnecessary platooning.

    0.001 difference in OBP for Gardner last year against Left/Right. 0.005 for his career.

  138. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:37 am
    Chip – My opinion of Gardner is that he’s a nice player but he’s only valuable to the team as long as he’s inexpensive. Once he starts getting to the arbitration years his value (like that of Melky’s) is going to decrease to the team.

    So Gardner is like… every player in baseball? How many players in baseball don’t lose value as they start making more money?

    Gardner can turn a profit easily up to about $15mil/year before you have to start worrying about his wheels carrying him..
    ———————–

    Yes, every player loses value as they get paid more, but that value is relative to what the player brings to the table. I think that when Brett starts making in the $3-5 mil a year range (which will probably be in a couple of years when he’s also cracking 30) you’ll see the team get very interested in moving him.

  139. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Jones was fine as 4th OF with righty power.. Gardner is too streaky.

  140. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:47 am

    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt.

  141. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:47 am

    “Maxwell is not in Jones class and is just a late inning replacement for Swisher.”

    QFT

    I still think that there has to be a better option than Chavez. Casey Blake might be worth taking a look at.

  142. Mike Ri December 21st, 2011 at 10:48 am

    mick

    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt.

    —–
    agreed

  143. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:50 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:47 am

    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt.
    ======

    With the concussion issue, I don’t think that the Yanks could get much for him. I would keep Cervelli, and move Romine in a deal, ideally for a pitcher or a solid outfielder. Romine looks like he could be a pretty good player, but I just don’t see a future for him with the Yanks. Trading him would be best for everybody concerned.

  144. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:50 am

    i believe blake just signed

  145. blake December 21st, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Gardner is a great value now……but if they don’t see him as a long term solution then they should shop him BEFORE he gets deep into arbitration and gets closer to age 30. Doesn’t mean you trade him now unless the return is substantial…..but they need to decide within the next year or so where his future lies with the Yanks.

  146. blake December 21st, 2011 at 10:53 am

    “i believe blake just signed”

    I did not

  147. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:53 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Jones was fine as 4th OF with righty power.. Gardner is too streaky.
    ===========

    I think it’s still a little too early to tell what we have in Gardner. It isn’t clear to me that he’s just a streaky player (at least more-so than the typical player). Last year, he was fiddling with his swing, and it really isn’t a great barometer. I think that 2012 will go a long way towards clarifying things.

  148. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Chip – As long as Gardner keeps popping out 3 WAR seasons, they’ll pay him double digits before they care.

  149. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Trading him would be best for everybody concerned.
    ====================
    Romine is the everyday backup for Martin if hurt.

  150. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:54 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:47 am
    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt.

    ————-

    Can’t deal Cervelli. Well you can, but you shouldn’t.

    If the plan is to play both Montero and Martin in the lineup at the same time then you still need a back-up catcher.

    If you deal Cervelli then your choices are to waste Austin Romine as the back-up catcher which I’m sure the Yankees don’t want to do or signing a free agent to sit there.

    So you have to find a catcher who is not only willing to take very little money but is also willing to accept the fact that he’s going to (barring injury) get maybe 10 regular season games all season.

    On the days Martin isn’t catching, Montero will be. If Martin gets hurt and misses significant time, Montero will likely catch and Joe will rotate his DHs. If Martin and Montero get hurt the Yankees will likely call up Romine since they already started his arbitration clock last year.

    That said, if someone’s willing to give the Yankees something of actual value for Cervelli – sure – go for it. But either way – you’re going to need to carry 3 catchers on the roster.

  151. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 10:55 am

    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt

    =====================

    What’s the going rate for a backup catcher that neither hits nor catches very well?

  152. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:57 am

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 10:52 am
    Gardner is a great value now……but if they don’t see him as a long term solution then they should shop him BEFORE he gets deep into arbitration and gets closer to age 30. Doesn’t mean you trade him now unless the return is substantial…..but they need to decide within the next year or so where his future lies with the Yanks.

    ———–

    I agree 100%

    His trade value is at its absolute peak – from here on out the combination of age and salary will diminish that value so it would be silly to not see what you can get for him.

    I’m not saying give him away – but at least explore the possibility. Right now he, Nova and Robertson are likely the three most tradeable assets on the big league roster.

  153. mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:57 am

    If Martin got hurt and Montero is DHing, he catches the rest of that game. You lose the DH for a few AB’s. Next day they bring up Romine.

  154. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:54 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:47 am
    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt.

    ————-

    Can’t deal Cervelli. Well you can, but you shouldn’t.

    If the plan is to play both Montero and Martin in the lineup at the same time then you still need a back-up catcher.

    If you deal Cervelli then your choices are to waste Austin Romine as the back-up catcher which I’m sure the Yankees don’t want to do or signing a free agent to sit there.

    So you have to find a catcher who is not only willing to take very little money but is also willing to accept the fact that he’s going to (barring injury) get maybe 10 regular season games all season.

    On the days Martin isn’t catching, Montero will be. If Martin gets hurt and misses significant time, Montero will likely catch and Joe will rotate his DHs. If Martin and Montero get hurt the Yankees will likely call up Romine since they already started his arbitration clock last year.

    That said, if someone’s willing to give the Yankees something of actual value for Cervelli – sure – go for it. But either way – you’re going to need to carry 3 catchers on the roster.
    ==================

    I don’t think that the Yanks need three catchers on the roster. If one of the two get hurt, the Yanks can always call for reinforcements from the minors. It would cost them at most one game with the emergency catcher.

  155. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:59 am

    dogface December 21st, 2011 at 10:55 am

    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt

    =====================

    What’s the going rate for a backup catcher that neither hits nor catches very well?
    ===

    Cervelli really gets a bum rap on this board.

  156. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:01 am

    If Gardner can OBP at .360 or better, he’s just fine on this team.

  157. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 10:58 am
    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 10:54 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:47 am
    cervelli serves no purpose and should be dealt.

    ————-

    Can’t deal Cervelli. Well you can, but you shouldn’t.

    If the plan is to play both Montero and Martin in the lineup at the same time then you still need a back-up catcher.

    If you deal Cervelli then your choices are to waste Austin Romine as the back-up catcher which I’m sure the Yankees don’t want to do or signing a free agent to sit there.

    So you have to find a catcher who is not only willing to take very little money but is also willing to accept the fact that he’s going to (barring injury) get maybe 10 regular season games all season.

    On the days Martin isn’t catching, Montero will be. If Martin gets hurt and misses significant time, Montero will likely catch and Joe will rotate his DHs. If Martin and Montero get hurt the Yankees will likely call up Romine since they already started his arbitration clock last year.

    That said, if someone’s willing to give the Yankees something of actual value for Cervelli – sure – go for it. But either way – you’re going to need to carry 3 catchers on the roster.
    ==================

    I don’t think that the Yanks need three catchers on the roster. If one of the two get hurt, the Yanks can always call for reinforcements from the minors. It would cost them at most one game with the emergency catcher.

    ——————

    No offense but if you really believe Girardi is going to even consider that as an option then you have not been paying close enough attention.

    Unless the Yankees bring in a player like a Jake Fox (not advocating for Jake Fox, just saying he fits this mold) who plays multiple positions of which catcher is one – they will carry three catchers.

    I’m the first one to say that people who talk in absolutes are often setting themselves up to look like fools, but there are a few things I am very confident in saying are locks:

    Yankees will carry 12 pitchers and if Montero is the DH they will have 2 other catchers on the 25 man.

  158. jacksquat December 21st, 2011 at 11:03 am

    No Jones.

    Sorry,
    Brian NoCash,man

  159. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:05 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:57 am
    If Martin got hurt and Montero is DHing, he catches the rest of that game. You lose the DH for a few AB’s. Next day they bring up Romine.

    —————-

    Well let me ask you this – if that was the way the Yankees thought about it – why didn’t they configure the roster that way last year? If Martin had gotten hurt Jorge certainly could have slid behind the plate for a couple of innings right?

  160. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:05 am

    with jones, maxwell,chavez, nunez there is no room for another catcher

  161. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 11:06 am

    I agree that his value as probably peaked, but sometimes you have to keep guys around so you can win :) He’s one of the few really huge “value” players the Yankee’s employ.

    Gardner will be 31 before he gets out of arbitration. I could see him getting 3-4 years $30mil after that, but I don’t know that it will come from the Yankees.

  162. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:06 am

    This notion of trying to time the buying and selling of players is a little misguided. You need to get players at reasonable prices to fill the roles that a club needs to fill. Right now, we don’t have anybody else for the outfield. There is no compelling reason to move Gardner.

    And we don’t know if Gardner has peaked yet. I don’t think that he has.

  163. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:07 am

    If Martin had gotten hurt Jorge certainly could have slid behind the plate for a couple of innings right?
    ========
    evidently not.

  164. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:07 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:05 am
    with jones, maxwell,chavez, nunez there is no room for another catcher

    —————

    Who says that would be the bench?

    It could easily be:

    Jones, Chavez, Nunez and Cervelli (as it was last year)

    or

    Maxwell, Laird, Nunez and Cervelli

    Really – barring a trade – Cervelli and Nunez are pretty much locks for the bench.

  165. blake December 21st, 2011 at 11:08 am

    “If Gardner can OBP at .360 or better, he’s just fine on this team.”

    Problem is that he hasn’t shown he can consistently to this point and he’s not that young for a guy who’s entire game is built around speed.

    My point is that they need Gardner to show that he can get on base consistently pretty soon…..or they should move him while his value is still pretty high.

    I wish him the best and id love for him to become a long term option for the Yanks…..but his age and skill set screams 2-3 year peak with regression to a role player in his 30s. All Im saying is that a decision need story be made sometime in the near future what they think he is.

  166. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:05 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 10:57 am
    If Martin got hurt and Montero is DHing, he catches the rest of that game. You lose the DH for a few AB’s. Next day they bring up Romine.

    —————-

    Well let me ask you this – if that was the way the Yankees thought about it – why didn’t they configure the roster that way last year? If Martin had gotten hurt Jorge certainly could have slid behind the plate for a couple of innings right?
    =======

    Clearly, they didn’t want Montero to catch last year. It is unclear if that will be the case going forward. If the Yanks see Montero exclusively as a DH, then he isn’t a catcher (he might be the emergency catcher but that doesn’t really count IMO)

  167. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Cervelli really gets a bum rap on this board

    =====================

    You call ‘em as you see ‘em, right? He’s a likeable young man. Brings some energy. But he’s just not very good. He’s a dime a dozen MLB backup catcher. If he were on waivers, someone would probably scoop him fairly quickly and make him their back up catcher. Don’t imagine anyone trades anything more than minor league roster filler for him though.

  168. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:10 am

    a 5th Of would see more time than a 3rd C.

  169. Hassey December 21st, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Hey guys – we really are like one big, ugly, dysfunctional family, so Happy/Merry Chrismakkah to all of you. Please no drunk driving over the next two weeks, or we’ll have to talk about you all summer.

  170. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Dickerson being productive while Xmas shopping ;)

    CDickerson_PFTP think I can save some time I take some dumbbells Christmas shopping, I could curl and lunge from store to store. #holidayworkoutvideo

  171. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 11:06 am
    I agree that his value as probably peaked, but sometimes you have to keep guys around so you can win He’s one of the few really huge “value” players the Yankee’s employ.

    Gardner will be 31 before he gets out of arbitration. I could see him getting 3-4 years $30mil after that, but I don’t know that it will come from the Yankees.

    ————-

    Right well it’s the same thought process that the Yankees went through with Melky.

    They need to determine not only whether what they can get back is worth it, but also who would be replacing Gardner and whether there’s an improvement there that would offset or exceed the value that Gardner has (both in terms of production and salary)

    As of right now, the only way I deal Gardner is if doing so (as part of a package) nets the Yankees a very good young starting pitcher – that could change though.

    For example, if the Yankees go out next week and sign Cespedes then Gardner likely becomes a bench player. So does he have more value to the club in that role or as a trade chip that brings back some talented prospect OF who is a year or two away?

  172. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Gardner was actually incredibly valuable this season despite not being that great offensively. He’s such a huge positive in the field and on the bases that it almost doesn’t matter what he does at the plate. Obviously you like to see something more like his 2010 numbers but he’s fine as is.

  173. 108 stitches December 21st, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Cervelli will go north to start the season unless concussion symptoms appear. He’ll also spend time learning other positions in ST to help his cause.
    Romine starts the year at AAA.
    Either Jones accepts the $2MM he got last year or no deal. He’s still getting paid by the Dodgers.

  174. blake December 21st, 2011 at 11:12 am

    That said……I don’t think you can do anything with Gardner until you decide what you’re doing with Swisher. If you trade Gardner now you could be potentially 2 outfielders short come next winter and be in a situation where Swisher has way too much leverage for comfort.

  175. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:15 am

    dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Cervelli really gets a bum rap on this board

    =====================

    You call ‘em as you see ‘em, right? He’s a likeable young man. Brings some energy. But he’s just not very good. He’s a dime a dozen MLB backup catcher. If he were on waivers, someone would probably scoop him fairly quickly and make him their back up catcher. Don’t imagine anyone trades anything more than minor league roster filler for him though.
    ====

    Fair enough, I suppose. However, a .270 hitter that gets on base 34 percent of the time ain’t chopped liver. And he has a little bit of clutch in his bat. However, his defense does leave something to be desired. He’s regressed defensively since getting to the big leagues, for whatever reason, and I don’t see anybody taking the time to work with him on it.

  176. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Hassey-same to you :)

  177. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Hal is saving money with Gardner, Cervelli, even Swisher.
    He’s leaving room for Cano.

  178. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 11:06 am
    I agree that his value as probably peaked, but sometimes you have to keep guys around so you can win He’s one of the few really huge “value” players the Yankee’s employ.

    Gardner will be 31 before he gets out of arbitration. I could see him getting 3-4 years $30mil after that, but I don’t know that it will come from the Yankees.

    ————-

    Right well it’s the same thought process that the Yankees went through with Melky.

    ========

    And the year after Melky left the Yanks, he blossomed…

  179. austinmac December 21st, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Cervelli would bring nothing that is of value to the Yankees. He is an adequate back up. Let
    Romine work on his bat in AAA.

    Maxwell struck out 72 times in 177 ABs last year. Chip, do you really want to see if he can strike out more than half the time in the majors? Kevin Long will fix that? Good luck with that.

    The team’s IF and OF bench consists of Nunez and AAA players. Yet, people are satsified with that?

  180. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 11:17 am

    If Cervelli had lived up to his rep as a great defensive catcher I’d be really happy to have him as a backup. Unfortunately he’s been pretty bad on defense for the last 2 seasons. There’s still hope he can improve but it’s getting less likely as more time passes. As he is now, he’s just not a contributing player at all

  181. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:18 am

    BJ Upton over Brett Gardner. Melky Cabrera over Nick Swisher. The lack of ML-ready OF’s in the Yankees org is not troubling at all considering the next FA class of OF’s. Upton, Cabrera, Victorino, Hamilton.

    The Yankees are not stuck with Gardner nor Swisher long term.

    But they will both be here throughout 2012.

  182. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:18 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:10 am
    a 5th Of would see more time than a 3rd C.

    —————–

    Probably not.

    Unless your fourth outfielder is a guy who at one point used to be an OF but is in reality strictly a DH (think Matt Stairs) then he’s the one who is going to play.

    Again, I don’t expect Cervelli to get a lot of starts – but they’re not going to leave themselves in a position where they are a first inning injury away from a pitcher having to hit in the 7th spot.

  183. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Molina would still be the BUC for less money.

  184. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Since Martin wears down easy and the Yankees don’t trust Montero starting as a catcher, I don’t see them moving Cervelli and/or Romine.

  185. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Jones defensively makes him a non-starter with me. He’s OK if you can afford wasting a roster spot onna RH PH, but assa 4th OF that is physically gonna be counted on to field a position, NO WAY. I prefer somebody like Reed Johnson for that 4th OF Role. Plays good D, hits decent, and has speed on the bases. You guys are kickin’ Gardner around once again, and I continue to urge dealing him inna package for Alex Gordon. KC has consistently inquired about Gardner’s availability and therefore making him the centerpiece of a deal for the emerging and growingly expensive Gordon fits.

  186. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 11:12 am
    Gardner was actually incredibly valuable this season despite not being that great offensively. He’s such a huge positive in the field and on the bases that it almost doesn’t matter what he does at the plate. Obviously you like to see something more like his 2010 numbers but he’s fine as is.

    ———-

    Yeah as long as Gardner is your 9th hitter then the Yankees have more than enough offense to carry him, especially given his ability in the OF. It’s when people start projecting Brett as a leadoff hitter that you need to see vast improvement in his consistancy at the plate.

  187. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:21 am

    There’s no need for Andruw Jones if you sign Carlos Beltran to be the primary DH/roaming corner OF.

  188. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Unless your fourth outfielder is a guy who at one point used to be an OF but is in reality strictly a DH (think Matt Stairs) then he’s the one who is going to play.
    ======================
    Jones as the 4 OF, any defensive wizard as #5 to replace Swisher or rest Grandy in a blowout or even to rest Tex in late innings with Swish or Chavez at 1st serves more purpose than a Cervelli.

  189. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Yeah as long as Gardner is your 9th hitter then the Yankees have more than enough offense to carry him, especially given his ability in the OF. It’s when people start projecting Brett as a leadoff hitter that you need to see vast improvement in his consistancy at the plate.

    Yeah true, that’s fair. Gardner definitely has to show more consistency if he’s going to be our leadoff hitter.

  190. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:22 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:19 am
    Molina would still be the BUC for less money.

    ————

    Molina signed with Tampa

    Look, if you want to deal Cervelli – that’s fine. But the point is that there are going to be three catchers on the 25 man roster.

  191. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:23 am

    If you have Beltran you can get away with Dickerson.

  192. Joe from Long Island December 21st, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Since Martin wears down easy

    catching seems like hard work to me…… I think we’ve been spoiled by posada. the guy seemed to catch everyday, in his prime. randy is right, posada is underappreciated, and will be missed. a real gamer, and borderline HOFer.

  193. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:21 am
    There’s no need for Andruw Jones if you sign Carlos Beltran to be the primary DH/roaming corner OF.

    ———

    They aren’t going to sign a primary DH – that’s Montero’s spot.

  194. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Yankees aren’t going to have two outfielders and no catchers on their bench.

  195. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Montero could go back down and continue to work on his catching if Beltran was the DH. I would be TOTALLY on board for that.

  196. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Joe,

    True, Joe. Posada was a rock. Most aren’t. I highly doubt Cervelli and/or Romine get moved. If the Yankees showed more faith in Montero behind the plate I would think differently. But all we hear about is him being 21 and them not wanting to rush him. Translation? Cervelli and Romine will be sticking around.

  197. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Molina signed with Tampa

    Look, if you want to deal Cervelli – that’s fine. But the point is that there are going to be three catchers on the 25 man roster.
    ==============================
    Don’t be so sure.
    Point on Molina was that Cervelli was cheaper than Molina.

  198. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Yankees aren’t going to have two outfielders and no catchers on their bench.
    ======================
    For one day it could happen.

  199. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Since Martin wears down easy and the Yankees don’t trust Montero starting as a catcher, I don’t see them moving Cervelli and/or Romine.

    =======================

    Since when does Martin wear down easy?

  200. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Molina signed with Tampa

    =========

    He meant Gustavo. And he already signed with the Yanks.

  201. blake December 21st, 2011 at 11:27 am

    If the money per year for Cespedes is pretty close to the same as what it would take to sign Andrew back then Id rather roll the dice on the potential

  202. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Montero could go back down and continue to work on his catching if Beltran was the DH. I would be TOTALLY on board for that.

    ********

    I don’t see why not. The only way Montero is going to get serious reps behind the plate in MLB is if Martin and/or Cervelli gets injured so it doesn’t matter if he starts the year as DH in MLB or catcher in MiLB. Either way, he’s not going to see much action behind the plate in the bigs. So groom him to catch in the minors if you’re serious about him catching. And bring in Beltran on a short deal to DH and roam the corners. Beltran would make a highly versatile DH.

  203. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 11:24 am
    Montero could go back down and continue to work on his catching if Beltran was the DH. I would be TOTALLY on board for that.

    ————-

    I don’t see it happening.

    Read that article I posted earlier – even if he’s a DH Montero’s a DH who can hit 30 hrs and make no money – given the new CBA there’s a huge value to that.

  204. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:28 am

    dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Since Martin wears down easy and the Yankees don’t trust Montero starting as a catcher, I don’t see them moving Cervelli and/or Romine.

    =======================

    Since when does Martin wear down easy?
    ===========

    It sure seemed that way to me last year too. Maybe it’s because he got off to such a hot start before he disappeared offensively for the rest of the season….

  205. austinmac December 21st, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Reed Johnson has signed with the Cubs.

  206. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:31 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am
    Yankees aren’t going to have two outfielders and no catchers on their bench.
    ======================
    For one day it could happen.

    —————

    For the sake of ending a “yes they will/no they won’t” argument – let’s leave it at this: a gentleman’s wager says that if the Yankees open with both Martin and Montero in the lineup they will also have a catcher on the bench.

    Fair?

  207. mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Yankees aren’t going to have two outfielders and no catchers on their bench.
    =================
    Montero is the BUC.
    Plus, he will not DH everyday.

  208. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am

    It sure seemed that way to me last year too. Maybe it’s because he got off to such a hot start before he disappeared offensively for the rest of the season….

    =====================

    I think that’s more a reflection of him not being an especially outstanding hitter. He’s never had trouble logging 1200+ innings behind the plate before. Only time he didn’t was when he got hurt in 2010. It’s not like he’s an old, injury prone guy. He’s under 30 and was injured once in his career prior to coming to the Yankees.

  209. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:31 am

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 11:26 am
    Yankees aren’t going to have two outfielders and no catchers on their bench.
    ======================
    For one day it could happen.

    —————

    For the sake of ending a “yes they will/no they won’t” argument – let’s leave it at this: a gentleman’s wager says that if the Yankees open with both Martin and Montero in the lineup they will also have a catcher on the bench.

    Fair?
    =====================

    If there is another catcher on the bench, then it means that Montero is not a catcher, but an exclusive DH.

  210. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Today is the shortest day of the year I think. Double down on your vitamin D3. It is a major catalyst in the synthesis of serotonin – your happy mood neurotransmitter.

  211. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 11:36 am

    If the Yanks send Montero to AAA, his value has nowhere to go but Down. He has nothing to prove offensively there, and if he starts the season out inna funk, his value drops like a rock. If the Yanks are seriously considering sending him down, they would be better off dealing him while his value is high, and before teams figure out this guy is NOT gonna develop into a MLB catcher.

  212. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:37 am

    dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am

    It sure seemed that way to me last year too. Maybe it’s because he got off to such a hot start before he disappeared offensively for the rest of the season….

    =====================

    I think that’s more a reflection of him not being an especially outstanding hitter. He’s never had trouble logging 1200+ innings behind the plate before. Only time he didn’t was when he got hurt in 2010. It’s not like he’s an old, injury prone guy. He’s under 30 and was injured once in his career prior to coming to the Yankees.
    ===========

    That sounds about right to me. Sometimes folks get these lasting perceptions that are really quite incomplete. I think that he got all of our hopes so high last May, with that terrific start of his, and the rest of the year was a disappointment, relative to that start.

  213. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Chip – There is also huge value to a franchise like the Yankees to not have the DH spot clogged up completely. A-Rod, Jeter, Texeira to a degree will all need more and more DH time, not less.

    Beltran is going to want too many years for me anyway.

  214. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 21st, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Quick drive-by to say hi! Haven’t kept up with much but did see the Rangers got Darvish. Still won’t be enough.

    Here’s what I believe to be the most safe prediction of all, though with ESPN one never knows: Sux will NOT be the hands-down favorite to win the 2012 World Series!!!!

    :lol:

    Back to wrapping presents and hoping that we get a white Christmas.

    :(

  215. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:38 am

    My guess on the 25 man roster:

    Jeter – SS
    Grandy – CF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Swisher – RF
    Montero – DH
    Martin – C
    Gardner – LF

    Bench:
    Cervelli, Nunez, Maxwell, Chavez

    Rotation:
    CC
    Nova
    Hughes
    Garcia
    AJ

    Pen:
    RHP: Mo, Robertson, Wade, Soriano, Meyers/Whalen/Kontos (until Joba returns)
    LHP: Logan, Cabral

  216. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Donnybrook,

    How so? If he rakes in AAA, it doesn’t erase his cup of coffee in 2011 – it only reinforces it. Plus he still has potential trade value as a catcher.

    One could argue, if you clear DH for him, it hurts his value as a potential catcher.

  217. Ruby Red Sock December 21st, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Same old nothing about nothing. Be productive go Christmas shopping and stop for lunch and a couple of belts.

  218. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Montero is an impact bat in the major leagues right now. He proved that in 2011. To put him in the minors would be a mistake of the highest caliber. He should be an everyday player in 2012, whether that’s DHing or catching, it really doesn’t matter.

  219. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    If Beltran won’t take 2 years, I say good riddance. Offer him 2 and see what happens. He has made over 100 million dollars in this game and he has no rings. If he really wants to be a Yankee and follow in the footsteps of his idol Bernie Williams, he will take a shorter deal.

  220. DavidL December 21st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Let him go to Boston and steal ABs from their lefties.

  221. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am
    =====================

    If there is another catcher on the bench, then it means that Montero is not a catcher, but an exclusive DH.

    ——————–

    No it doesn’t.

    On the days Martin and Montero are both in the lineup – Martin catches and Montero DH’s

    There will be days when Martin is out of the lineup (injury or just rest) and Montero catches and Alex or someone else DHs

    And then there will be days when Montero gets a complete day off entirely.

    The third catcher is there in case Martin and Montero both start a game and Martin gets hurt and might get 10 starts (barring injury) during the season.

  222. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 11:36 am

    If the Yanks send Montero to AAA, his value has nowhere to go but Down. He has nothing to prove offensively there, and if he starts the season out inna funk, his value drops like a rock. If the Yanks are seriously considering sending him down, they would be better off dealing him while his value is high, and before teams figure out this guy is NOT gonna develop into a MLB catcher.
    ==

    Oy. I really hate this buy-low, sell-high crap. How about we just find out what we have in Montero? If he flames out, then c’est la vie.

    However, I agree sending him back to TripleA would be a mistake, unless he shows up to ST 30 pounds overweight. It’s time to take the training wheels off, and let the kid play.

  223. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:42 am

    That sounds about right to me. Sometimes folks get these lasting perceptions that are really quite incomplete. I think that he got all of our hopes so high last May, with that terrific start of his, and the rest of the year was a disappointment, relative to that start.

    =========================

    He definitely had a tough 4 or so months starting in late April and continuing thru a good chunk of August. He closed pretty strong though. Last 30 or so games, he was solid.

  224. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Yeah Chip is exactly right, you can’t go into the season with just Martin and Montero at the catcher position. Girardi would never leave himself in a spot where an injury would leave him with no catcher. Cervelli will be on the roster one way or another.

  225. Hassey December 21st, 2011 at 11:43 am

    THANK YOU ERIN – the rest of these shlubs have no manners

  226. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am
    =====================

    If there is another catcher on the bench, then it means that Montero is not a catcher, but an exclusive DH.

    ——————–

    No it doesn’t.

    ===========

    Yes, it does. You don’t need three catchers on the bench (I mean really–when have the Yanks ever carried three catchers on a team). And Montero isn’t going to get any better as a catcher without playing in some games–10 games a year won’t get it done.

  227. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 11:46 am

    - Hitman -
    Montero can hit, no debate there. But sending him to AAA sends a message to MLB teams and plays with fire as to a slump at that level. Currently, the guy is NO C. As this player ages and continues to be exposed assa DH only, his value plummets. I would deal this Stick Only player ASAP. I wouldn’t deal him cheaply or just unload him, but ASAP. Oakland and Gio Gonzalez would be my 1st stop.

  228. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Hassey December 21st, 2011 at 11:43 am

    THANK YOU ERIN – the rest of these shlubs have no manners

    ========

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! :P

  229. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 11:43 am
    Yeah Chip is exactly right, you can’t go into the season with just Martin and Montero at the catcher position. Girardi would never leave himself in a spot where an injury would leave him with no catcher. Cervelli will be on the roster one way or another.

    ————

    Exactly – can you imagine the furor that would go on if Martin was knocked out in the first inning and Sabathia had to go hit and either the Yankees lost the game or worse – Sabathia got hurt running the bases (ala Wang)?

    It doesn’t have to be Cervelli – they could move him (I know the Pirates were interested at the deadline last year) and bring in a Koyie Hill or someone of equal ineptitude – but there will be a 3rd catcher.

  230. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Yes, it does. You don’t need three catchers on the bench (I mean really–when have the Yanks ever carried three catchers on a team).
    ————————

    You have to go all the way back to last year to find the last time the Yankees carried three catchers.

    Posada
    Martin
    Cervelli

  231. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:47 am

    People forget that the Yankees called up Montero because they wanted a guy who could hit lefties for the stretch. The AAA season was over. Never once did they sacrifice his development as a catcher. They were pretty explicit about their intentions to keep him catching. They can’t do that with Martin and Cervelli. So I think they might be planning on sending him to AAA all along – in which case Beltran makes a ton of sense.

  232. blake December 21st, 2011 at 11:48 am

    “I would deal this Stick Only player ASAP.”

    Wonder if Marlins fans said the same about Miguel Cabrera

  233. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Montero is an impact bat in the major leagues right now. He proved that in 2011

    ==========================

    Sample was far too small to suggest that he proved anything, but there really isn’t anything for him to prove in AAA, at least offensively, either. He should be up and in the lineup most everyday, but he’s got a little work to do before he can be declared an impact bat.

  234. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 11:48 am

    FakePeteGammons If #Redsox sign Andruw Jones expect 50 HR’s & gold glove MVP defense. If #Yankees get him? Iffy bench piece. This is Peter Gammons.

  235. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Ghostwriter

    As I said, the only way the Yankees do not carry a third catcher is if they bring in a player who does multiple positions including catcher – a guy like a Jake Fox.

  236. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 11:49 am

    RiverAveBlues RT: @leokitty: NYY BA Top 10: Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Sanchez, Williams, Bichette Jr, Santana, Romine, Murphy, Heathcott. Not bad.

  237. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Yes, it does. You don’t need three catchers on the bench (I mean really–when have the Yanks ever carried three catchers on a team).
    ————————

    You have to go all the way back to last year to find the last time the Yankees carried three catchers.

    Posada
    Martin
    Cervelli
    ————

    Don’t be ridiculous. You know full well that was an aberration. Can you even name who was the third catcher in 2010? What about 2009? Wasn’t Robin Ventura (!!) our emergency catcher at one point?

  238. jacksquat December 21st, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am
    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am
    =====================

    If there is another catcher on the bench, then it means that Montero is not a catcher, but an exclusive DH.

    ——————–

    No it doesn’t.

    ===========

    Yes, it does. You don’t need three catchers on the bench (I mean really–when have the Yanks ever carried three catchers on a team). And Montero isn’t going to get any better as a catcher without playing in some games–10 games a year won’t get it done.

    No, it doesn’t. Montero can catch 40+ games, which will also help Martin. On those days Montero catches, someone else can DH, A-Rod or whoever.

    Same amount of roster spots as last year: Posada/Martin/Cervelli = Montero/Martin/Cervelli

    Hopefully people read this this time so I don’t have to explain it 50 times…

  239. blake December 21st, 2011 at 11:53 am

    I think they said that Murphy was going to catch primarily this year because he has improved so much behind the plate

  240. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:53 am

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 11:46 am

    - Hitman -
    Montero can hit, no debate there. But sending him to AAA sends a message to MLB teams and plays with fire as to a slump at that level. Currently, the guy is NO C. As this player ages and continues to be exposed assa DH only, his value plummets. I would deal this Stick Only player ASAP. I wouldn’t deal him cheaply or just unload him, but ASAP. Oakland and Gio Gonzalez would be my 1st stop.

    *********

    I don’t think you can hide him or trick other GM’s and scouts. Scouts know how he projects position-wise. If they have determined he can’t catch then it’s really a game of chicken. If other GM’s think he’s blocked here by Tex at 1b and Martin at catcher and DH long term by Arod, there’s nothing you can do to pretend that he fits long term. Eventually, you have to admit you have no place for him and auction him off to the highest bidder. Maybe there’s a team out there who sees him as a 1b or a catcher. Or maybe a team that views him as a DH only is willing to bid higher than the team who values him as a potential catcher because they love his bat so much. You never know. But as long as you play a dishonest game, other GM’s are not going to be honest about how they value him. Is he a guy without a position? Maybe. No way around it.

    The Reds found themselves in a similar position with Yonder Alonso. All bat, no glove. He was blocked by Votto. They tried him in the OF. GM’s knew the Reds wanted to move him and so when they moved him his value took at hit. Eventually, the game of chicken has to end.

  241. austinmac December 21st, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Chip,

    Maxwell as the sole OF replacement is awful. He will strike out half of his at bats. God forbid, an outfielder should get hurt.

    I guess you are presuming Nakajima does not sign? Not sure I disagree on that one.

  242. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Ghostwriter

    As I said, the only way the Yankees do not carry a third catcher is if they bring in a player who does multiple positions including catcher – a guy like a Jake Fox.
    =========

    My point is very simple: Assuming that Montero is uninjured, if there is another catcher on the roster that is getting significant playing time as a catcher (let’s say 40 to 60 games out of 162), then it means that the Yanks are not serious about Montero as a catcher. If they aren’t giving him the laying time that he needs to develop him, then the inescapable conclusion is that they aren’t trying to develop him.

    I think that the way that they handled Montero last year was a stopgap measure to make things easier on Montero, and to make sure that the Yanks didn’t give away any games because of Montero behind the plate. I expect that they will give him more opportunities to catch in 2012 than they did in 2011.

  243. jacksquat December 21st, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:49 am
    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Yes, it does. You don’t need three catchers on the bench (I mean really–when have the Yanks ever carried three catchers on a team).
    ————————

    You have to go all the way back to last year to find the last time the Yankees carried three catchers.

    Posada
    Martin
    Cervelli
    ————

    Don’t be ridiculous. You know full well that was an aberration. Can you even name who was the third catcher in 2010? What about 2009? Wasn’t Robin Ventura (!!) our emergency catcher at one point?

    It’s not an aberration to carry one DH (Posada) and 2 catchers. That’s what that was. That’s what the Yankees and nearly every other team does pretty much all the time, every year. It makes no difference if the DH can also catch. Got it?

  244. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Yankees will bring Montero along behind the plate much the way they did Posada – this year I would expect Jesus to get about 60 – 70 games back there and about another 80 or so at DH.

  245. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:58 am

    jacksquat December 21st, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am
    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:34 am
    =====================

    If there is another catcher on the bench, then it means that Montero is not a catcher, but an exclusive DH.

    ——————–

    No it doesn’t.

    ===========

    Yes, it does. You don’t need three catchers on the bench (I mean really–when have the Yanks ever carried three catchers on a team). And Montero isn’t going to get any better as a catcher without playing in some games–10 games a year won’t get it done.

    No, it doesn’t. Montero can catch 40+ games, which will also help Martin. On those days Montero catches, someone else can DH, A-Rod or whoever.

    Same amount of roster spots as last year: Posada/Martin/Cervelli = Montero/Martin/Cervelli

    Hopefully people read this this time so I don’t have to explain it 50 times…
    =============

    Please don’t talk to me like I’m stupid. How many Posada catch last year?

  246. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:58 am

    EDIT: How many games did Posada catch last year?

  247. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 11:59 am

    New Post: LoHud Yankees chat tomorrow

    :arrow:

  248. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    RiverAveBlues RT: @leokitty: NYY BA Top 10: Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Sanchez, Williams, Bichette Jr, Santana, Romine, Murphy, Heathcott. Not bad.

    A bit surprised Bichette jr is on that list

  249. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Sample was far too small to suggest that he proved anything, but there really isn’t anything for him to prove in AAA, at least offensively, either. He should be up and in the lineup most everyday, but he’s got a little work to do before he can be declared an impact bat.

    Ok whatever, reasons are different but same conclusion why argue?

  250. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    A bit surprised Bichette jr is on that list

    ========================

    Ditto

  251. dogface December 21st, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Ok whatever, reasons are different but same conclusion why argue?

    ===========================

    You made 2 conclusions, I was arguing one of them and agreeing with the other.

  252. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    jacksquat December 21st, 2011 at 11:57 am

    It’s not an aberration to carry one DH (Posada) and 2 catchers. That’s what that was. That’s what the Yankees and nearly every other team does pretty much all the time, every year. It makes no difference if the DH can also catch. Got it?
    ===================

    Yes, Posada was the DH and the emergency catcher last year. If Montero is to be the DH and the emergency catcher in 2012, then what does that tell you about his future as a catcher? How is he going to get the work that he needs to improve if Cervelli or Romine are catching on Martin’s offdays?

  253. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    For most of the 1980′s the Chicago White Sox were an afterthought. A perennial underachiever – despite being in one of the largest cities and media markets in the country.

    The White Sox franchise was transformed starting in 1990′s. At the heart of that organizational transformation was Frank Thomas.

    Thomas had a massive, immediate impact on the Sox. From the time he walked onto the team he was their best hitter.

    Interestingly, a big question on Thomas was – where would he play? Was he too big?

    So how did Thomas impact the Sox?

    In his first full season – Thomas – at the age of 23 – DH’d 101 games.

    By the logic of many Yankee fans now – that was a “waste.”

    If you were to listen to some Yankee fans now dismiss the notion of a young player integrating himself into a team as a DH you’d have to conclude of course that Thomas was just a “waste” at DH. That he didn’t have an impact. How could he? He was only a DH!

    And before anyone starts in with the whole interleague issues – its still not very many games.

    Many Yankee fans went into a panic whenever Ortiz came up against the Yanks in his prime.

    Now those same people have dismissed the DH spot to being a “waste” for a player like Montero to get his feet wet and want to trade him.

    It’s completely misguided. DH’s can have transformative impacts on franchises. We saw it in the 1990′s with Thomas and Martinez in the 2000′s with Ortiz.

    The idea that somehow playing DH is a waste makes no baseball sense.

  254. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    You made 2 conclusions, I was arguing one of them and agreeing with the other.

    No, I said he should be in the lineup every day, that’s my only conclusion based off what I’ve seen and read.

  255. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Where were you guys pushing the Big Gun DH when Matsui was handed his walking papers? Nobody’s saying a DH can’t be productive. But putting a rookie in that role full-time does Nothing to further his development\possible trade value. It does Exactly the opposite. The argument about resting Vets in the DH Slot is another factor against parking a rookie or youngster in there full-time.

  256. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    CB – In Frank Thomas’ first full season, how many aging superstars did the WhiteSox have signed for long term contracts that would need DH time going forward?


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