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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


LoHud Yankees chat tomorrow

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 21, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Before I start flying all over the country for the holidays, let’s have one last 2011 chat.

I’ll be chatting on Thursday starting at noon. The Yankees haven’t done much, which oddly gives us plenty to talk about. What have they missed, what could they do and how will a quiet winter affect 2012?

Stop by if you can.

LoHud Yankees Blog. Noon. Chat. See ya there.

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227 Responses to “LoHud Yankees chat tomorrow”

  1. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:56 am

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 11:46 am

    - Hitman -
    Montero can hit, no debate there. But sending him to AAA sends a message to MLB teams and plays with fire as to a slump at that level. Currently, the guy is NO C. As this player ages and continues to be exposed assa DH only, his value plummets. I would deal this Stick Only player ASAP. I wouldn’t deal him cheaply or just unload him, but ASAP. Oakland and Gio Gonzalez would be my 1st stop.

    *********

    I don’t think you can hide him or trick other GM’s and scouts. Scouts know how he projects position-wise. If they have determined he can’t catch then it’s really a game of chicken. If other GM’s think he’s blocked here by Tex at 1b and Martin at catcher and DH long term by Arod, there’s nothing you can do to pretend that he fits long term. Eventually, you have to admit you have no place for him and auction him off to the highest bidder. Maybe there’s a team out there who sees him as a 1b or a catcher. Or maybe a team that views him as a DH only is willing to bid higher than the team who values him as a potential catcher because they love his bat so much. You never know. But as long as you play a dishonest game, other GM’s are not going to be honest about how they value him. Is he a guy without a position? Maybe. No way around it.

    The Reds found themselves in a similar position with Yonder Alonso. All bat, no glove. He was blocked by Votto. They tried him in the OF. GM’s knew the Reds wanted to move him and so when they moved him his value took at hit. Eventually, the game of chicken has to end.

  2. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:49 am
    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Yes, it does. You don’t need three catchers on the bench (I mean really–when have the Yanks ever carried three catchers on a team).
    ————————

    You have to go all the way back to last year to find the last time the Yankees carried three catchers.

    Posada
    Martin
    Cervelli
    ————

    Don’t be ridiculous. You know full well that was an aberration. Can you even name who was the third catcher in 2010? What about 2009? Wasn’t Robin Ventura (!!) our emergency catcher at one point?

    ——————

    In 2009 it was Cervelli and in 2010 it was Chad Moeller.

    But those years were a different dynamic because you didn’t have both your catchers in the lineup at the same time.

  3. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    The Reds found themselves in a similar position with Yonder Alonso. All bat, no glove. He was blocked by Votto.

    Difference is the Reds are an NL team and don’t have a DH spot.

    At this point Montero has nothing to learn in AAA, he needs to be in the lineup every day.

    This is a guy that if he meets expectations will be the best or second best hitter on the team behind Cano. I don’t think people realize just how good Montero is or could be

  4. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    For most of the 1980?s the Chicago White Sox were an afterthought. A perennial underachiever – despite being in one of the largest cities and media markets in the country.

    The White Sox franchise was transformed starting in 1990?s. At the heart of that organizational transformation was Frank Thomas.

    Thomas had a massive, immediate impact on the Sox. From the time he walked onto the team he was their best hitter.

    Interestingly, a big question on Thomas was – where would he play? Was he too big?

    So how did Thomas impact the Sox?

    In his first full season – Thomas – at the age of 23 – DH’d 101 games.

    By the logic of many Yankee fans now – that was a “waste.”

    If you were to listen to some Yankee fans now dismiss the notion of a young player integrating himself into a team as a DH you’d have to conclude of course that Thomas was just a “waste” at DH. That he didn’t have an impact. How could he? He was only a DH!

    And before anyone starts in with the whole interleague issues – its still not very many games.

    Many Yankee fans went into a panic whenever Ortiz came up against the Yanks in his prime.

    Now those same people have dismissed the DH spot to being a “waste” for a player like Montero to get his feet wet and want to trade him.

    It’s completely misguided. DH’s can have transformative impacts on franchises. We saw it in the 1990?s with Thomas and Martinez in the 2000?s with Ortiz.

    The idea that somehow playing DH is a waste makes no baseball sense.

  5. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Even if Montero is a complete stinker behind the plate – he’ll be all of 25 or 26 when Tex’s contract runs out at which point the Yankees can transition him to 1b. Just as the Tigers did with Miggy and the Cards did with Pujols.

  6. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    RiverAveBlues RT: @leokitty: NYY BA Top 10: Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Sanchez, Williams, Bichette Jr, Santana, Romine, Murphy, Heathcott. Not bad.

    Pardon my ignorance but is the Santana referred to here, Ravel Santana? Haven’t really heard much about him

  7. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Other GM’s might be reading that the Yankees want DH for Arod and/or Jeter. They might be reading that the Yankees will lock up Martin long term and that they love him.

    If that’s the case, they know the Yankees are bluffing when the Yankees pretend they have a spot for Montero.

    But nobody should be honest about their valuation of Montero until the Yankees show their cards. If they bring in Beltran on a short deal, that would be the dead giveaway and the auction would begin.

    Much like the Padres got flooded with calls on Rizzo as soon as they brought in Alonso.

    Just because a player is blocked, doesn’t erase all his value. Teams will come out of the wood works with bids and the one team who offers fair value, gets him.

  8. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    DH for Arod and/or Jeter.

    lmao @ you for including Jeter in anything relating to the DH

  9. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    A-rod is going to be a position player for the forseeable future, and Jeter will never be a full time DH. Ya’ll crazy.

  10. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    They’ll move Jeter to left field before they make him a permanent DH.

  11. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    The idea of a player who could put up a 1.000 OPS being “blocked” by an aging player is just preposterous.

    At some point wild speculation is just… wild speculation.

  12. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Montero’s not blocked.

    Just because he’s not going to catch 162 games in his first full season doesn’t mean the Yankees don’t trust him to be a catcher.

    Again – look how they broke in Jorge – he caught 60 games in 2007 then 111 games in 2008

  13. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    There are two very serious issues other GM’s are looking at when they examine the Yankees.

    1)Arod’s health

    2)The Yankees stance on Russell Martin

    This is a game of chicken.

  14. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    ===========

    Okay fine. You win. Montero will catch as many games in 2012 as Posada did in 2011 if the Yanks have three catchers on the roster.

  15. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Making Jeter the designated hitter is like making me the designated cooker – only nausea and failure will follow

  16. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    “Ravel Santana? Haven’t really heard much about him”

    Yes. Ravel Santana. CF. Super talented. Has some of the best tools in the system. Perhaps the best. Raw. Only played in rookie ball – but extremely impressive.

    Unfortunately he broke his ankle which cost him a good chunk of the season. I asked phill the thrill about it a while back and he indicated that Santana was recovering well.

    Let’s hope that ankle is ok – because he had great speed.

  17. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Montero is going to be in the bigs….and he should be kn the lineup somewhere every day. Id like them to see if he coukd play a few games at 1B when Tex needs a day off (against a tough righty maybe)

  18. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    But I must say, the Yankees are building a nice market for Montero in advance of the auction, taunting and tantalizing when appropriate.

  19. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:15 pm
    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    ===========

    Okay fine. You win. Montero will catch as many games in 2012 as Posada did in 2011 if the Yanks have three catchers on the roster.

    ————–

    How is that me winning? That’s not at all what I said will happen.

    Me winning would be you saying “oh, I wasn’t looking at it that way but you’re probably right – the Yankees will work Montero in behind the plate and the third catcher is a great insurance policy to have in case someone gets hurt.”

    Your thing was just being petty. :-)

  20. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Santana, Williams, Soler!

  21. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    CB,

    After I saw that top 10 list I searched on milb.com for a Santana in the Yankee system and he came up as the only likely candidate – good stats in GCL (as little as that means) and super young. Thanks for the info

  22. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Patrick – I was surprised to see Dante Jr. on that list as well.. has anyone here seen the kid play yet?

    I already like him for helping me dub Girardi “Uncle Joe” for the duration of his tenure as manager. I hope he works his way up through the system.

  23. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    “Again – look how they broke in Jorge – he caught 60 games in 2007 then 111 games in 2008″

    Frank Thomas played 60 games at 1b his first full season and DH’d the rest.

    The next season he played first base full time.

    Yankee fans are making this out as if its some complex rocket science that requires game theoryesque strategizing to figure out. It’s all so complicated.

    It’s really not. Teams do this all the time.

    It’s just that Yankee fans have little experience knowing/ watching how young players can get integrated into a team.

    And when they aren’t familiar with something they just start to wildly speculate.

  24. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Montero is going to be in the bigs….and he should be kn the lineup somewhere every day. Id like them to see if he coukd play a few games at 1B when Tex needs a day off (against a tough righty maybe)
    =====

    If the Yanks don’t see Montero as a real catcher, then they really ought to get him some position at which he can be proficient. First base sounds good; so does right field. He’s a big , strong kid; I don’t know why he can’t run…

  25. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    The real surprise on that BA list was Bichette Jr. BA panned that pick.

  26. Bo knows December 21st, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    BA Santana

    Yes they were talking about Ravel Santana. Had a badly broken ankle.

    Team League AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS
    YAN GCL .296 41 162 43 48 11 3 9 29 92 17 40 10 3 .361 .568 .929

  27. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:15 pm
    Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    ===========

    Okay fine. You win. Montero will catch as many games in 2012 as Posada did in 2011 if the Yanks have three catchers on the roster.

    ————–

    How is that me winning? That’s not at all what I said will happen.

    Me winning would be you saying “oh, I wasn’t looking at it that way but you’re probably right – the Yankees will work Montero in behind the plate and the third catcher is a great insurance policy to have in case someone gets hurt.”

    Your thing was just being petty. :-)
    ============

    :lol: Time will tell. I want to see him get a significant number of games behind the plate.

  28. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    really what you or I would do is immaterial – the question, as always is WWJD (What Will Joe Do) and we all know that Joe will give Jeter a couple of games at DH and, most likely, on those days Montero will catch.

    It’s not an awful scenario really.

    Martin doesn’t have to catch every single day
    Montero doesn’t have to jump into the deep end of the pool without floaties
    Alex and Derek get a few days of less stress on the body

    Winners all around.

    Except for Cervelli who essentially becomes a cheerleader and maybe gets a game here or there.

  29. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Yankee fans are making this out as if its some complex rocket science that requires game theoryesque strategizing to figure out. It’s all so complicated.

    It’s really not. Teams do this all the time.

    Seriously. At this point just put him in the lineup every day (or close enough) and let him get experience against major league pitching. With the talent he has at the plate it really doesn’t matter so much where he plays, the Yankees can figure that out as they go. Not every player is a finished product right away.

    The fact of the matter is, Montero is ready to crush in the majors, it would be a really really bad idea to limit his playing time or put him in the minors because he doesn’t fit perfectly into the puzzle. Just give him at-bats, its that simple!

  30. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    “Yankee fans are making this out as if its some complex rocket science that requires game theoryesque strategizing to figure out. It’s all so complicated.”

    LOL, CB.

    I think we just have short memories and some of the guys that we have developed sort of exceeded expectations in such a crazy way we expect to see that all the time. Jeter came up in 1996 and played 157 games, for example lol. Not a lot of easing-him-in going on there. Jorgie was certainly eased into his role but, again, short memories around here at times…

  31. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    “The real surprise on that BA list was Bichette Jr. BA panned that pick.”

    I think everyone did pretty much because he wasn’t in any top 100s……the biggest thing was could they have gotten him later in the draft? The pick is certainly looking better now no.matter how you view GCL performance…….kid seems like a leader and a legit pro hitter.

  32. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    The real surprise on that BA list was Bichette Jr. BA panned that pick.

    ——————

    What do you mean they ‘panned the pick’, CB? Genuinely asking, no ulterior motives lol.

  33. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    The real surprise on that BA list was Bichette Jr. BA panned that pick.

    Yeah that was my first reaction as well

    I’d probably stick another pitcher in there.. Warren, Phelps…

  34. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    The pick was weird because Bichette wasn’t (supposedly) in danger of being picked anytime soon and wasn’t a slam dunk pro-tools guy. Once he is drafted it doesnt matter what round he was picked, his prospect ranking will be based on performance and tools. Luckily, Bichette Jr performed really awesome in the GCL and showed that the tools he does have are legit for now.

  35. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 12:19 pm
    Patrick ? I was surprised to see Dante Jr. on that list as well..

    ***************

    Never, ever doubt Little Dante :P

  36. RadioKev December 21st, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:17 pm
    Montero is going to be in the bigs….and he should be kn the lineup somewhere every day. Id like them to see if he coukd play a few games at 1B when Tex needs a day off (against a tough righty maybe)
    ———-

    That wouldn’t happen unless Teixiera is god awful against righties through almost the entire season. They’re not going to give up on Tex as a switch hitter in favor for a right hander hitter just because of principal.

  37. RadioKev December 21st, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Meanwhile…I’m loving The Onion’s year end wrap up

    http://www.onionsportsnetwork......arb,18897/

    And yes, Fielder is a vegetarian, but still

  38. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    The Red Sox are “kicking around their preference” between trying to sign Hiroki Kuroda or trade for Gio Gonzalez, writes Yahoo’s Tim Brown.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    So who exactly are the Sox going to trade for Gio Gonzalez?

  39. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    “That wouldn’t happen unless Teixiera is god awful against righties through almost the entire season.”

    I wish I could pretend this was highly unlikely…

  40. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:19 pm
    “Again – look how they broke in Jorge – he caught 60 games in 2007 then 111 games in 2008?

    Frank Thomas played 60 games at 1b his first full season and DH’d the rest.

    The next season he played first base full time.

    Yankee fans are making this out as if its some complex rocket science that requires game theoryesque strategizing to figure out. It’s all so complicated.

    It’s really not. Teams do this all the time.

    It’s just that Yankee fans have little experience knowing/ watching how young players can get integrated into a team.

    And when they aren’t familiar with something they just start to wildly speculate.

    ——————–

    And there’s a tendancy to forget that the times when we have seen young players thrown right into their positions on a full time basis (Jeter, Cano, Soriano) it has been requried due to the situation – in Jeter’s case it was because Tony Fernandez broke his arm in spring training, Cano was because Tony Womack was putrid, Soriano had to play because Knobby forgot how to throw to first base. When the Yankees have had the luxury of being able to slowly integrate a player in (Melky, Posada, Gardner, Bernie, Nick Johnson) they’ve done so.

  41. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Shame,

    BA thought it was a significant overdraft. He was an ok player without much athleticism. Not worth being taken as high as he was.

    In general, draft followers really did not care for Bichette being taken when he was – which caused a mini-tidal wave of ire amongst yankee fans who follow the draft.

    He then proceeded to hit the tar out of the ball in the GCL which I guess changed some opinions at BA. Which is good. It’s good to see them at least partially reevaluate their initial assessments of an 18 year old.

    That GCL yankee team was awesome – they lead the league in OPS by almost .100 points or so. Something absurd along those lines.

    They hit for so much power in a league and age where its very hard to hit for power. Heavy, humid air if the summer in Florida isn’t conducive to the ball traveling.

  42. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    “That wouldn’t happen unless Teixiera is god awful against righties through almost the entire season. They’re not going to give up on Tex as a switch hitter in favor for a right hander hitter just because of principal.”

    Im not talking about a regular thing…..just every now and then if you wanted to give Tex a DH day. I mean like 4 or 5 games just to get him a little experience over there…….

  43. RadioKev December 21st, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    The Red Sox are “kicking around their preference” between trying to sign Hiroki Kuroda or trade for Gio Gonzalez, writes Yahoo’s Tim Brown.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    So who exactly are the Sox going to trade for Gio Gonzalez?
    ————

    Exactly. I really don’t buy that Josh Reddick would get it done. Do they have any more worthwhile prospects? As far as I know, they’ve all been wiped out.

  44. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Also there’s the fact that catcher might be the hardest position on the field. Not only will Montero have to adjust to big league pitchers as a hitter, but with the exception of Nova, he’s got zero experience with any of the guys likely to be in the major league rotation or bullpen – that’s a lot of learning to do and letting him do it slowly is best for both him and the club.

    I wouldn’t be at all shocked if you see Girardi sort of pair the pitchers/catchers up where Montero might catch Nova and Hughes and Martin would catch the three veterans. Something along those lines.

  45. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    You have to assume the Yankees thought some other teams were on Dante off the radar also and that he might get picked before it came back to them.

  46. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    RadioKev December 21st, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    The Red Sox are “kicking around their preference” between trying to sign Hiroki Kuroda or trade for Gio Gonzalez, writes Yahoo’s Tim Brown.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    So who exactly are the Sox going to trade for Gio Gonzalez?
    ————

    Exactly. I really don’t buy that Josh Reddick would get it done. Do they have any more worthwhile prospects? As far as I know, they’ve all been wiped out.

    ————-

    They’ve got the 3b and SS who are both supposed to be good.

  47. RadioKev December 21st, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Blake,

    All I’m saying is, I don’t forsee that. I imagine they’d just roll with Swisher at first. Plus Montero would probably be a liability at first..

  48. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    “Exactly. I really don’t buy that Josh Reddick would get it done. Do they have any more worthwhile prospects? As far as I know, they’ve all been wiped out.”

    Middlebrooks and a bunch of A ball guys

  49. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    “They’ve got the 3b and SS who are both supposed to be good.”

    The SS they have in A ball is supposed to be good….iglesias envies Ramiro Pena’s bat.

  50. Shame Spencer December 21st, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Thanks for the insight, CB. I don’t follow the draft much or the rankings. I just wait till they get in our system and go from there lol.

    Its always nice to hear that some of the kids are exceeding expectations, though, even if it is at lower level ball.

  51. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    “When the Yankees have had the luxury of being able to slowly integrate a player in (Melky, Posada, Gardner, Bernie, Nick Johnson) they’ve done so.”

    Agree. We went through exactly this with Posada. And somehow people have just forgotten it as if it didn’t happen.

    If Posada were coming up today in the age of blog and twitter there would be vast tracts written about how the yankees were just gaming the market looking to trade a player who had “no position.”

    There’s simply no patience. People just want churn, activity, instant analysis and decisions. But some decisions only evolve over time – they take time and require modification and correction.

    But that’s just not acceptable anymore.

    And what makes this even more funny is that Montero is much, much better than Posada was at comparable ages and stages of his career.

    These conversations about the plight of Montero and what to do with him are going to seem comical one day.

  52. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:05 pm
    For most of the 1980?s the Chicago White Sox were an afterthought. A perennial underachiever – despite being in one of the largest cities and media markets in the country.

    The White Sox franchise was transformed starting in 1990?s. At the heart of that organizational transformation was Frank Thomas.

    Thomas had a massive, immediate impact on the Sox. From the time he walked onto the team he was their best hitter.

    Interestingly, a big question on Thomas was – where would he play? Was he too big?

    So how did Thomas impact the Sox?

    In his first full season – Thomas – at the age of 23 – DH’d 101 games.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    You can add Jim Rice to that list. He spent a huge chunk of his first 3 years as a DH.

    It’s really rare to see rookie catchers to break in as front line catchers. Posey, Mauer and and Ivan Rodriguez over the last 30 years are the rare exceptions. NYYs haven’t had a rookie catcher take the position since Munson and before that, Bill Dickey. Posada was the catching under-study to Girardi for 3 years and had Leyritz in addition for part of that time.

    I’m guessing Montero gets about 45-50 catching starts this year with Martin getting most of the rest and Cervelli getting the leftovers and he and Martin getting games at other spots, late in games or emergencies.

  53. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    “All I’m saying is, I don’t forsee that. I imagine they’d just roll with Swisher at first. Plus Montero would probably be a liability at first..”

    I don’t think they will either but Girardi has mentioned trying him over there in ST…..

  54. RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Another name that comes up as a trade chip in Sox prospective trades is Anthony Ranaudo.

    I think he was at “A” ball last season. Another they believe is a big chip is Ryan Kalish.

    They could move Ellsbury.

  55. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    “They could move Ellsbury.”

    They could…..but that makes them a worse team as he’s one of their best players.

  56. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    Another name that comes up as a trade chip in Sox prospective trades is Anthony Ranaudo.

    I think he was at “A” ball last season. Another they believe is a big chip is Ryan Kalish.

    They could move Ellsbury.

    ————–

    Moving Ellsbury is an interesting idea.

    From all reports, he’s not a particularly happy guy in Boston nor is he well regarded by his teammates.

    The Sox could capitalize on this MVP-type season and move him in a big deal and then bring in a guy like Carlos Beltran to patrol CF with Crawford in LF and Reddick in RF.

  57. m December 21st, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Just catching up, but I wanted to thank CB for trying to keep an even keel here.

  58. Erin December 21st, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    AndrewMarchand Yankees not interested, but they have time on Oswalt. His agent said his client won’t decide ’til next year.

  59. Noreaster December 21st, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    From what I’ve read, Sox really only have the 3B prospect. Ellsbury won’t get it done since he is too old for Oakland. Their SS is all field, no hit, Kalish is just ok. Not a top 50 prospect. They will only trade Gio if they are knocked out, Sox don’t have that level of young players to trade…

  60. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    It’s really rare to see rookie catchers to break in as front line catchers. Posey, Mauer and and Ivan Rodriguez over the last 30 years are the rare exceptions. NYYs haven’t had a rookie catcher take the position since Munson and before that, Bill Dickey. Posada was the catching under-study to Girardi for 3 years and had Leyritz in addition for part of that time.

    ===========
    Posada caught 60 games in his first full year in the Majors, and DH’d in 0 of them.

    Historically, the catching chores historically have been split between two players, barring injury and a callup from the minors.

  61. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    “It’s really rare to see rookie catchers to break in as front line catchers.”

    Absolutely. It just doesn’t happen much. And Montero is already very young to be entering the bigs at any position – let alone catcher.

    Yankee fans are making this far, far more complicated then it really is, especially because the club has already gone through this with Jorge.

    It just speaks to the bleaching away of memory that people somehow lose examples from even the very recent past so quickly.

  62. Joe from Long Island December 21st, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    I think the Sox trading Ellsbury would be a great thing – for the Yankees. And, I think Beltran’s days of playing CF are long gone.

  63. m December 21st, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Ellsbury is an interesting case in study. How many HR will he hit this season?

    He’s also the brooder of the bunch. Not much of a leader. Is there any lingering resentment with the club? Or does Cherrington get a clean slate?

    Personally, I hope he reverts. If not, I hope they trade him for aging pitching. :)

  64. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Off of that list of names of minor league kids in the Yankee system that’s missing is Tyler Austin. Still trying to decide if he’s a 3rd baseman, 1st baseman or corner outfielder. Off of his first year, though, the bat plays anywhere.

  65. Bo knows December 21st, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    I read somewhere that the Yankees saw an inequity in the drafting system and went heavily into HS players with high upside. Well, the CBA took care of that.

  66. RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Blake I threw out Ellsbury’s name because I don’t see much over there in the way of good prospects close to MLB ready.

    There is also LaVarnway but it wouldn’t make sense they would dump a decent catching prospect.

  67. CB December 21st, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Thanks m. Hope you’re well surrounded by rainbows and all. Have a pomelo for me!

  68. blake December 21st, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    If the Sox wanted to give Middlebrooks, Barnes, and Bogaerts then they could probably draw Beane’s interest for Gio……but that would essentially gut their system completely.

  69. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    m December 21st, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Ellsbury is an interesting case in study. How many HR will he hit this season?

    ————-

    Until he can repeat what he did in 2011, I have to believe that it was a fluke. I would expect him to regress to being a very good centerfielder (but not a 40 HR guy, or whatever it was last year.

    As I recall Brady Anderson never came anywhere near 50 HRs again after that one year.

  70. Joe from Long Island December 21st, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    It just speaks to the bleaching away of memory that people somehow lose examples from even the very recent past so quickly.

    With no knowledge of who people are here, my guess is that most are too young to remember – let alone live through and follow the team – those days of a young Jorge Posada. Yogi Berra – he’s some old guy who shows up now and then. What’s he famous for? Not knowing or acknowledging history is all too common these days.

    “Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana.
    (I know, he’s still on the disabled list.)

  71. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    CB – In Frank Thomas’ first full season, how many aging superstars did the WhiteSox have signed for long term contracts that would need more and more DH time going forward? It’s not exactly the same situation.

  72. m December 21st, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    CB,

    It’s cold and wet this week. But there are rainbows. Yesterday, we saw one that stretched across the backdrop of the mountains. It was such a treat to see a full one.

    A neighbor has a tree laden with the heavy fruit. Every time I walk past, I’ll “pick” one for you. :)

  73. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:47 pm
    It’s really rare to see rookie catchers to break in as front line catchers. Posey, Mauer and and Ivan Rodriguez over the last 30 years are the rare exceptions. NYYs haven’t had a rookie catcher take the position since Munson and before that, Bill Dickey. Posada was the catching under-study to Girardi for 3 years and had Leyritz in addition for part of that time.

    ===========
    Posada caught 60 games in his first full year in the Majors, and DH’d in 0 of them.

    Historically, the catching chores historically have been split between two players, barring injury and a callup from the minors.

    —————-

    Right – but when Posada came up in 1997 the Yankees had Wade Boggs/Charlie Hayes and Cecil Fielder DHing.

    I still think the catching duties are going to be split between Montero and Martin, but rather than sitting when not catching, Montero will DH.

  74. Bo knows December 21st, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    “Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana.
    (I know, he’s still on the disabled list.)

    ——————-
    Booyah Good One

  75. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Can’t see Lavarnway getting included in any trades. The Red sox are scratching around for a backup catcher as it is. Not sure how The Captain is going to accept a non-existant roll on that team. There isn’t any other place on that team, since he can’t catch and DHing is filled, even if he could hit.

  76. m December 21st, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Ghostwriter,

    Bautista followed up his fluky year with another one.

    Why can’t all guys “mature” and “be smarter” and “start their bat earlier” like those two?

  77. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    I just hope Montero gets at least 40 to 50 games behind the plate in 2012.

  78. RadioKev December 21st, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Until he can repeat what he did in 2011, I have to believe that it was a fluke. I would expect him to regress to being a very good centerfielder (but not a 40 HR guy, or whatever it was last year.

    ——

    32HRs. It didn’t seem like a fluke to me..he looked much more balanced at the plate. We’ll see if he can repeat it, but I don’t see why he couldn’t.

  79. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    ***role*** – not roll

  80. m December 21st, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Anyone else laugh out loud when they saw that the Angels signed D. Navarro to be the backup catcher? I don’t even remember who their starting catcher is.

  81. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 12:56 pm
    CB – In Frank Thomas’ first full season, how many aging superstars did the WhiteSox have signed for long term contracts that would need more and more DH time going forward? It’s not exactly the same situation.

    ——————–

    Yeah but it also isn’t like Russ Martin has a 10 year contract that’s blocking Montero from ever catching.

  82. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    The Red sox are scratching around for a backup catcher as it is.

    They signed Kelly Shoppach

  83. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    m December 21st, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Ghostwriter,

    Bautista followed up his fluky year with another one.

    Why can’t all guys “mature” and “be smarter” and “start their bat earlier” like those two?
    ==

    Which is why I say that I’m reserving judent until he repeats it. But it was such a big jump. Until last year Ellsbury never had even double-digits in homers… It would be like Gardner hitting 32 homers…

  84. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    m December 21st, 2011 at 12:59 pm
    Anyone else laugh out loud when they saw that the Angels signed D. Navarro to be the backup catcher? I don’t even remember who their starting catcher is.

    ————

    Chris Ianetta

  85. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Chip – It’s not the catcher i’m talking about. It’s A-Rod, Jeter, Teixeira, Cano at some point…

    If Montero is going to be a “career DH” you have to constantly be shuffling around that fact.

  86. m December 21st, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Chip,

    Thanks. Ianetta is decent, no?

  87. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Should be an interesting ball game on MLB-TV starting today (now). Australian All-Star team vs World All-Star team

  88. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    Chip – It’s not the catcher i’m talking about. It’s A-Rod, Jeter, Teixeira, Cano at some point…

    If Montero is going to be a “career DH” you have to constantly be shuffling around that fact.

    ————-

    Right, but why the assumption that Montero’s going to be a career DH? And by the time Tex and Cano need to consider DHing Montero could likely be at 1b if he doesn’t work out behind the plate.

  89. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    The best thing you can say about shoppach is that he’s not Varitek. a real stud.

  90. RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    I’m thinking Shoppach wil catch a lion’s share of their games, LaVarnway the back-up.

    Capt. Crunch is done.

  91. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Chip – It’s not the catcher i’m talking about. It’s A-Rod, Jeter, Teixeira, Cano at some point…

    Please stop embarrassing yourself by including a not even close to DH level 1st baseman, a SS that will never be a fulltime DH, and a premiere 2nd baseman that will not spend more than a little bit of time at DH in a list of things to worry about the DH position.

    Montero will never be blocked from DH by Tex, Jeter, or Cano. And A-rod will be a third baseman for atleast the next 3 years.

  92. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    m December 21st, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    Chip,

    Thanks. Ianetta is decent, no?

    ———-

    Yeah I guess – there are others who are more sold on him than I am. He hits for no average and marginal power (despite the Coors factor) but he’s got a nice OBP.

    Seems like he’s always the guy you hear talking heads say is “going to make the leap” but at 28 I think he is what he is.

    He’s no Mike Napoli :-)

  93. RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Boston needs a rightfielder also.

  94. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 1:06 pm
    I’m thinking Shoppach wil catch a lion’s share of their games, LaVarnway the back-up.

    Capt. Crunch is done.

    ———

    Jarrod Saltalamaccia is the starting catcher for the Red Sox.

  95. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    The best thing you can say about shoppach is that he’s not Varitek. a real stud.

    Shoppach is good against lefties. .241 .344 .444 .788 last year, .261 .375 .455 .830 the year before, .274 .373 .536 .909 in his career. He is a platoon backup catcher.

    They also still have good ole Salty

  96. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Saltalamachhia will probably be Boston’s first choice behind the plate, unless they think he was a fluke and try dealing whatever value he has

  97. CB December 21st, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    “If Montero is going to be a “career DH” you have to constantly be shuffling around that fact.”

    First, off – of course the situations aren’t 100% the same. It’s an analogy. I thought that was readily apparent.

    Second, nowhere did I say he was going to be a career DH.

    I was only talking about the next 1-2 years or so.

    He’s just being slowly integrated behind the plate. That’s it.

    There’s this general notion that because Montero is not ready to catch 150 games right now he should be traded. That he would be a “waste” to keep otherwise.

    That’s what I’m contesting. It’s not a waste in any respect.

    I think Montero will DH and catch some. Over the next few years he’ll catch more.

    And then I think he’ll take over for Tex at 1b five years from now.

    That seems a very clear pathway to me.

    And also- Carlton Fisk was on that White Sox team – and still catching. He was a legend then. But the Sox did also have Ron Karkovice – who was considered a very promising young catcher at the time. He was being lauded as a great defensive catcher.

    If that situation was present with the Yanks people would be saying that Thomas had to be traded because DH has to be saved for Fisk as he’s aging and Karkovice has to play.

  98. RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Yeah you’re right Chip I stand corrected.

    How could I ever overlook that stud.

  99. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Going after Shoppach is “scratching around”. If he isn’t good enough to share the Devil Rays catching job, he’s not worth a lot.

  100. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    They should deal Montero, if he is a career DH then he is going to be blocked by Jesus Montero.

  101. tomingeorgia December 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    GB7,
    Thanks for the Australian ASG game. Perfect for a gloomy winter afternoon.

  102. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    jerkface – stop embarassing yourself and pay attention. i’m not even talking about making one of them full time. it’s simply a fact that as these players age they will need more days off from fielding duties. if you have your DH spot clogged up with a player you “always have to play” like Montero, now you are taking these bats out of the lineup.

    I want him to catch, or I want him to be traded away “as a potential catcher”.

    We went throught his same nonsense last off-season and look how the catcher situation broke down. montero was so “ready” that they had to call romine up to catch 2 complete games. 2. that’s ridiculous.

  103. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    They should deal Montero, if he is a career DH then he is going to be blocked by Jesus Montero.
    ==

    ?

  104. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    jerkface – stop embarassing yourself and pay attention. i’m not even talking about making one of them full time. it’s simply a fact that as these players age they will need more days off from fielding duties. if you have your DH spot clogged up with a player you “always have to play” like Montero, now you are taking these bats out of the lineup.

    Nope, you’re still embarrassing yourself. Seriously, the Yankees have to be worried that Tex and Cano will take away Montero’s position? Oh no in the 8 games combined that Tex & Cano need a ‘half day’ at DH then Montero will catch!!!

    BETTER TRADE MONTERO!

  105. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Point is we have Seen Montero catch at the MLB level and the guy stinks defensively. Could he improve? Sure. But as of right now, the guy issa detriment on defense at C. Forget the sharing time with Martin, this guy needs a LOTTA work back there NOW. I also believe filling the DH Slot with Montero though productive, is not wise with the age factor on the Yankee team. The Yanks either need to get Montero a defensive position other than C, or deal him, and they need to do it ASAP.

  106. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    CB – My sole concern is him becoming a DH forever. I absolutely hate the idea. I’d rather he got ready to catch now. IMO the offense can survive without him.

  107. G. Love December 21st, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Good stuff today. Just popping in w/my 2 cents.

    The biggest impediment to Montero is Girardi. The way Girardi heavy hands his lineup decisions I could see him pull the kid from the lineup after a 4-5 performance with 2 HR’s because Girardi has a pre-sheduled day in his mind for Arod to DH.

    I don’t think Cashman is dumb enough to trade Montero because of Girardi, but I also think that Girardi will be a major hinderance Montero is going to have to overcome.

    I do not believe Girardi will catch Montero 40 games. I don’t think he’ll catch him 4 games next season unless there’s an emergency.

    Overcoming Joe Girardi is the biggest issue this kid will have because I think Girardi is terrified he’s going to get saddled with a catcher who is more bat than glove.

    I might be wrong, but I wish we had a different manager. Mattingly would embrace this kind of bat coming up through the system. Girardi seems annoyed by having to deal with it whenever asked about it.

  108. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    There are about 9 or 10 guys in all of baseball I would trade Montero for.

    Just keep him, give him at bats and watch him rake. Be glad we have such a great hitter.

  109. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    I want him to catch, or I want him to be traded away “as a potential catcher”.

    ————–

    Whether he catches or not – there is a ton of value in a right handed power bat making no money.

    Incidentally – even if he’s a butcher behind the plate, if is his bat plays the way it is supposed to then they will live with him back there. There have been plenty of bad defensive catchers who have stayed back there thanks to their bats. Just in NY you’ve got Posada, Piazza, Mike Stanley, Matty Nokes, Todd Hundley…

  110. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Point is we have Seen Montero catch at the MLB level and the guy stinks defensively.

    He has 22 innings caught at the major league level. Let me get your jump to conclusions mat.

  111. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Those 4 players already combined for 36 games at DH last year, a number that will only be increasing as time goes on.

  112. Gary December 21st, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    I’m curious are the Yanks going to level with their fans what they bid for Darvish and the reasoning behind that?

  113. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Those 4 players already combined for 36 games at DH last year, a number that will only be increasing as time goes on.

    The Yankees didn’t have a DH.

  114. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    jerkface – stop embarassing yourself and pay attention. i’m not even talking about making one of them full time. it’s simply a fact that as these players age they will need more days off from fielding duties. if you have your DH spot clogged up with a player you “always have to play” like Montero, now you are taking these bats out of the lineup.

    I want him to catch, or I want him to be traded away “as a potential catcher”.

    We went throught his same nonsense last off-season and look how the catcher situation broke down. montero was so “ready” that they had to call romine up to catch 2 complete games. 2. that’s ridiculous.
    =========

    I believe that Posada was called up under a similar circumstance in 1995.

    Even if Montero isn’t a catcher, there is no reason to deal him away. He can be extremely valuable as a DH. I would rather have Edgar Martinez as my fulltime DH, then this rotating DH nonsense of Girardi’s. You don’t need to use the DH slot to give guys dayus off.

  115. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    The Yanks will Not win #28 with a butcher behind the plate. Come on now.

  116. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    The Yanks will Not win #28 with a butcher behind the plate. Come on now.

    Were you watching when they won #27?

  117. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm
    The Yanks will Not win #28 with a butcher behind the plate. Come on now.

    ———

    why not – they won #27 with one back there

  118. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Chill everybody either we get to keep Montero or we get a much needed pitcher in a trade for him. There’s no need to get heated over this.

  119. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    tomingeorgia December 21st, 2011 at 1:13 pm
    GB7,
    Thanks for the Australian ASG game. Perfect for a gloomy winter afternoon.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    My pleasure, Tom. They’re making some big inroads down there with baseball. Not the greatest yet, but, getting better fast. The pitching is still ahead of the hitting, but, they’ll get there. They don’t have a huge population in australia to draw from and much of the population come from immigration. Somewhere around 25 million people. They do have a rabid fan base, though. I enjoyed going to watch them play during the times I went there.

  120. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    The Yanks will Not win #28 with a butcher behind the plate. Come on now.
    ==

    Jim Leyritz

  121. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Those 4 players already combined for 36 games at DH last year, a number that will only be increasing as time goes on.

    *********

    And if other GM’s aren’t reading this situation as you described, I’d be shocked. They know.

  122. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    How did #28-attempt2 work out with Russel Munson behind the plate? His .100 batting average sure came in handy, but atleast he allowed 2 stolen bases!

  123. m December 21st, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Good to see you G. Love.

    I don’t think Girardi is nearly as terrified or petrified as you portray.

    The kid was 21. He was simply relying on the veteran players that got them to that point. Montero got some post season experience. He’ll be much better for it.

    We’re going to see a lot of Montero this season. And maybe there will be less indictment of Girardi for his supposed persecution of Montero.

  124. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:15 pm
    Point is we have Seen Montero catch at the MLB level and the guy stinks defensively. Could he improve? Sure. But as of right now, the guy issa detriment on defense at C. Forget the sharing time with Martin, this guy needs a LOTTA work back there NOW. I also believe filling the DH Slot with Montero though productive, is not wise with the age factor on the Yankee team. The Yanks either need to get Montero a defensive position other than C, or deal him, and they need to do it ASAP.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    You saw him catch what? 3 Games? What was it he butchered, you idiot?

  125. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Montero isn’t going anywhere. He will DH 100 games this season and catch 40-50.. give him at bats and go from there

  126. CB December 21st, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    The idea that you either keep Montero and he catches full time or you trade him as a potential catcher is an abstraction.

    It’s treating players as if they are widgets that you can always optimally valuated in a completely transparent fashion because all relevant information is priced in.

    That’s not the case. You can’t just transfer one value and translate it into another through a transaction. There’s far too much uncertainty on both sides of the ledger to do that.

    In fact, that’s pretty much the thinking on the opposite side that Jack Z engaged in when he decided to pick Smoak over Montero.

    It’s also similar to the thinking that led the Angels to “maximize” the value of Napoli by trading him to a team that saw him as a “potential catcher.”

    This is not all that complicated.

    The fact is not all skill sets in baseball carry equal weight.

    And nothing approaches the value of the hit tool for position players.

  127. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Montero isn’t going anywhere. He will DH 100 games this season and catch 40-50.. give him at bats and go from there
    —–

    Sounds good to me.

  128. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    - FACE -
    Romine was brought up and added to the roster simply because Montero was deemed unacceptable back there last Sept. Simple as that.

  129. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    Those 4 players already combined for 36 games at DH last year, a number that will only be increasing as time goes on.

    ——————–

    And those are 36 of the games Montero will be catching in 2012.

    Even if Montero can’t catch, and Alex and Jeter and Tex (still the best defensive 1b in baseball) and Cano (who by the way is 28 so he’s a long way from needing to DH) all needed to DH – if the bat plays – they will find a spot for him. Be it at 1b or RF.

    You’re tilting at windmills right now is all…just pour yourself some eggnog and relax.

  130. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    - BERET -
    Save the insults, and gimme 50.

  131. CB December 21st, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Last season one of the Yankees single biggest problems was that they got absolutely horrible production out of their DH slot.

    The Yankees got close to league bottom production out of the DH slot.

    So one of the single easiest ways to improve the yankees is to simply make the DH better.

    They could probably add 2-3 WAR just by doing that alone.

    But somehow that’s a waste.

  132. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    That wasn’t an insult. that was a fact

  133. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:24 pm
    Montero isn’t going anywhere. He will DH 100 games this season and catch 40-50.. give him at bats and go from there

    —————

    Sounds about right.

    Like I said earlier – expecting a 22 year old to come in, learn how to hit ML pitching and call a game behind the plate is a lot to ask for – the Yankees aren’t stupid and they’re not going to dump that much on him all at once.

  134. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Romine was brought up to replace Cervelli

  135. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    And how many games will the 3rd catcher get behind the plate?

  136. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    - FACE -
    Romine was brought up and added to the roster simply because Montero was deemed unacceptable back there last Sept. Simple as that.
    ————-

    You don’t know that. They brought up Romine, because they didn’t want Montero to catch. However, it isn’t clear why they didn’t want to use him behind the plate.

  137. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    The question is, with AROD and his albatross of a contract and steroid past, do the Yankees want to eliminate DH as an option for him altogether?

    Are they serious about locking up Martin long term and do they love him?

    Those are the questions that relate to Montero whether you see him as a DH or trade bait as a potential catcher.

    Other GM’s have studied this roster and they know where the lowest risk path is. They’re not going to get Montero for free, but I bet they have an idea that the Yankees are open to move this guy for the right price.

  138. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    You can make the argument that Montero as a lifetime DH and BUC + maybe BU 1B maximizes his value to the team.

    His bat is so important to the Yankees going forward the #1 priority is keeping him healthy and on the field for 150+ games a season.

  139. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Montero caught 2 games after Romine was called up. Nuff said.

  140. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Montero’s game calling is Not the major problem.

  141. Jerkface December 21st, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Montero hit .328 .406 .590 .996 , Romine hit .158 .200 .158 .358, nearly getting OUT OPS’D by Montero’s batting average.

    They brought up Romine because Cervelli died, and Montero STILL was put in as a starting catcher in 2 games after Romine was called up, clearly not being blocked by Austin.

  142. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Posada was a pretty mediocre postseason performer for his career.

    It’s possible he was just so worn down by October most years from catching.

    Just let the kid do what he does best. Hit the crap out of the ball.

  143. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    And as I recall, Montero did an okay job behind the plate. He’s not Benito Santiago back there, but he wasn’t a butcher.

  144. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Why is A-rod all of a sudden a full time DH? He is still a reasonably good fielder, there is no reason to put him at DH yet.

    And with the amount of catching depth the Yankees have in the minors, there is no way they lock Martin up for any more than 2-3 years. I doubt they sign him for more than this year to be totally honest.

    The only guy that will need time at DH in the foreseeable future (next 3 years) is A-rod. And even then it’s not like he’ll need 100 games at DH.

    Montero, even if he’s not a full time catcher can take over part time duties for the next 5 years, DH the rest of the time then make the transition to 1B after Tex is gone.

  145. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    The tension is to high in here.

    Who thinks Lady Gaga has a nice little body on her?

    It’s hard to get past the makeup and the chirades but she’s a fine piece of tail IMHO.

  146. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    LGY – You’ll run into this same situation every year then, having to have 2 catchers that are not Montero on the roster most of the time.

  147. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    charades

  148. Ys Guy December 21st, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    how much does a young position player work on his defensive skills in the offseason? how much improvement can be reasonably expected from montero between the end of last season and the end of ST next year? i’d agree that he can’t be very good back there judging by how the catching heavy yankees didn’t trust him back there at all last year, but it doesnt automatically follow that he’s going to remain that bad as time goes on. And the only way for him to get better is for them to find regular work for him at catcher, say 2x/wk.

  149. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    LGY – You’ll run into this same situation every year then, having to have 2 catchers that are not Montero on the roster most of the time.

    Why is this a bad thing?

  150. CB December 21st, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    “Why is A-rod all of a sudden a full time DH? He is still a reasonably good fielder, there is no reason to put him at DH yet.”

    No reason. It’s just rhetorically convenient to make a diversionary argument.

    People are taking what might happen with Alex 4 years from now and making it out as if its going to happen next year.

    It’s like this great bait and switch of time.

    Alex struggled to hit last season. But he was excellent in the field.

    But of course when it comes to Montero that means that Alex must DH so Montero should be traded.

  151. Ys Guy December 21st, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    butta face

  152. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    LGY – You’ll run into this same situation every year then, having to have 2 catchers that are not Montero on the roster most of the time.
    =========

    I don’t think that’s true.

  153. Bo knows December 21st, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    The only reason you would have to DH A Rod or Jeter was that their bats were better than Posada at that time. That argument doesn’t wash if Montero is raking. They just get a day off. Where’s the beef.

  154. RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    I get past the gold medal flour Gaga uses for makeup.

  155. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:30 pm
    And how many games will the 3rd catcher get behind the plate?

    ————-

    Ideal world? Maybe 10.

    But when was the last time you saw a team go through a season without injuries?

  156. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Nobody’s making Arod the full time DH right now.

    But are the Yankees willing to eliminate the DH as an option altogether considering he played 100 games in 2011, had hip surgery and abused steroids in the past for an undetermined amount of time?

    And why wouldn’t Russell Martin get a 3 year deal?

    Sox would give him 4.

    Teams need catchers.

    Martin going anywhere?

  157. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    LGY – You’ll run into this same situation every year then, having to have 2 catchers that are not Montero on the roster most of the time.

    ————

    Who cares?

  158. RhapsodyInBlue December 21st, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    ARod needs to hold up a few more seasons better then he has the past few.

    He needs to stay healthy for a lot of reasons.

  159. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    Wow. Carrying a 3rd catcher for 10 games back there? Not me. No way.

  160. Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    LGY – Everyone here cares, that’s what started this conversation… having to carry 3 catchers.

  161. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:36 pm
    LGY – You’ll run into this same situation every year then, having to have 2 catchers that are not Montero on the roster most of the time.

    ———————

    So?

    If – two years from now – we’re looking at a scenario where Romine is the primary catcher and Montero’s ABs come at DH/RF – what’s the problem?

  162. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    Wow. Carrying a 3rd catcher for 10 games back there? Not me. No way.

    ————

    You’re not carrying him for the 10 games he might start – you’re carrying him for the games you might need him if Martin gets hurt and Montero is already in the game at DH.

  163. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    LGY – Everyone here cares, that’s what started this conversation… having to carry 3 catchers.

    —————

    Well, not everyone. I don’t care.

    Personally, I don’t think it’s necessary to carry 3 catchers but if they do it’s a miniscule issue.

  164. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    LGY – Everyone here cares, that’s what started this conversation… having to carry 3 catchers.
    =============

    The fact is that the Yanks will only have to carry three catchers next year if Montero can’t catch. From what I’ve seen, Montero is probably as good defensively as Cervelli. So, there is little need to drag Cervelli around on the roster for 162 games on the chance that somebody might get hurt.

    Just because the Yanks carried three catchers last year doesn’t mean that they are going to do it again.

  165. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    If Martin can get more than a 2 year deal from some team good for him, I don’t care. He can go play for the Red Sox, doesn’t really bother me when we have Romine, Murphy, Sanchez coming down the pipe. And yes, Montero too

  166. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 21st, 2011 at 1:41 pm
    LGY – Everyone here cares, that’s what started this conversation… having to carry 3 catchers.

    —————

    I’m sorry I forget – you’re advocating what exactly? If Montero’s here you want him catching or sitting on the bench but not DHing or you want him in the minors catching everyday?

  167. CB December 21st, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    “The only reason you would have to DH A Rod or Jeter was that their bats were better than Posada at that time. That argument doesn’t wash if Montero is raking. They just get a day off. Where’s the beef.”

    Yes. Exactly.

    People are making it out as if its just completely easy to find someone who can put up a .950-1.000 OPS as if they are growing on trees.

    And if the .950-1.000 OPS bat you have now doesn’t fit – just ship it out because you can be assured of just exchanging it for an equivalent bat in the form of another player.

    Again – the Yankees had one of the single worst rates of production from the DH spot in baseball this past season.

    Resting a veteran in the DH spot would be a reasonable upgrade of the position.

    If Montero is raking as a DH you don’t just remove him so an older player can rest. It’s a downgrade.

    Again – this is like arguing the White Sox should remove Frank Thomas from the line up as a DH so that Carlton Fisk can take a breather.

  168. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    DH: Montero
    C: Martin

    Bench: Andruw, Nunez, Chavez/Nakajima, Cervelli

    What’s the problem here?

  169. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    What’s the problem here?

    No problem at all! I don’t get why people are getting bent out of shape about this. Were people going berserk when we carried Moeller or Nieves as an emergency 3rd catcher?

  170. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    LGY December 21st, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    LGY – Everyone here cares, that’s what started this conversation… having to carry 3 catchers.

    —————

    SNIP

    Personally, I don’t think it’s necessary to carry 3 catchers but if they do it’s a miniscule issue.
    ============

    I think that this probably true. Still, I hate to waste that last roster spot on somebody that likely would never get used.

  171. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    If someone gets hurt, you bite the bullet and let the pitcher bat for that game. Then call-up a legitimate catcher from the minors\ Romine or whoever for the following day. No way you waste a roster spot onna “break glass in case of fire” 3rd string catcher.

  172. tomingeorgia December 21st, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    GB7,
    Looked it up: there have been 31 OZ men in MLB. The best around in 2011 were Moylan and Balfour. My all-time favorite was Graehme Loydd, LOOGY supreme for the Yankees some years back. Got traded to the Jays in the package for Clemens, if I recall correctly.

  173. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    If someone gets hurt, you bite the bullet and let the pitcher bat for that game. Then call-up a legitimate catcher from the minors\ Romine or whoever for the following day. No way you waste a roster spot onna “break glass in case of fire” 3rd string catcher.
    ====

    I agree.

  174. CB December 21st, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    There’s absolutely no problem carrying three catchers as long as one of them can double as a highly productive DH.

    There’s no roster construction problem at all. Not even when they travel to an NL park.

    The problem with carrying three “catchers” this past season was that none of them could hit particularly well and one of them – Posada – was done as a player and a sink hole at DH.

  175. Eroc December 21st, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    If worst comes to worst, you turn A-Rod into a bench player. You don’t let a late 30s A-Rod stop you from integrating a Miguel Cabrera/Frank Thomas into your lineup.

  176. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    God forbid the Yankees don’t carry a 5th OF like Chris Dickerson on the roster.

    I mean seriously. These are the reasons people don’t want Montero as a DH or traded or stashed in the minors.

    We are going to let CHRIS DICKERSON stand in the way of having Montero’s bat in the lineup?

  177. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:47 pm
    If someone gets hurt, you bite the bullet and let the pitcher bat for that game. Then call-up a legitimate catcher from the minors\ Romine or whoever for the following day. No way you waste a roster spot onna “break glass in case of fire” 3rd string catcher.

    —————

    Do you really believe Joe Girardi or Brian Cashman will see it that way? I mean honestly?

    Of course they won’t. How do I know they won’t? Because they didn’t do that last year. If Martin had gotten hurt in a game I’m sure Posada could have slid behind the plate for an inning or two – but Cervelli was still on the roster right?

  178. Patrick December 21st, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    We are going to let CHRIS DICKERSON stand in the way of having Montero’s bat in the lineup?

    Haha people are just grasping at straws at this point. It’s like they are compelled to have every player fit on the team like a set of perfect puzzle pieces. Yeah Montero isn’t perfect, he doesn’t have a set position but guess what, he can hit really damn well and would help the team as is.

  179. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Tom,

    Did you catch the name of the right fielder that just made that throw to the plate? daniel Almonte. That’s the 15-16 year old Little Leaguer from NY a few years back.

  180. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    CB December 21st, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    There’s absolutely no problem carrying three catchers as long as one of them can double as a highly productive DH.

    There’s no roster construction problem at all. Not even when they travel to an NL park.

    The problem with carrying three “catchers” this past season was that none of them could hit particularly well and one of them – Posada – was done as a player and a sink hole at DH.
    ======

    Let’s think about this for a second. If the third catcher is Cervelli, then we would be using the last roster spot on a guy with an average bat and average speed that likely can play some infield positions aside from catching. There isn’t much bang for the buck with this choice. If Romine is the third catcher, then you would be stunting the development of a young catching prospect. To what end? How doe this serve the Yankees?

    For my money, the last roster spot should go to best player available that brings something to the roster. Now, that might be Cervelli, but I’d rather wait ’til ST to find out.

  181. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Posada was with the Yanks last season due to his big $$$ contract. You don’t expect him back this season do you?? of course not, he has no contract now. And I agree Cashman will go with 3 C’s unless he deals Montero inna Gio deal. But that doesn’t mean I agree with that philosophy or gotta Like it. Right now I’m Lumpin’ it.

  182. Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    This is not an honest conversation.

    Anyways.

    If you can watch this woman sing for 3 minutes of your life and conclude she has no talent then I give you major props:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_GMgkcc2KM

  183. mick December 21st, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    You’re not carrying him for the 10 games he might start – you’re carrying him for the games you might need him if Martin gets hurt and Montero is already in the game at DH.
    ======================================
    Change that to the fraction of a game that could happen in.
    The next day Romine can come up. Stop being so shortsighted. You lose the DH for a few innings, so what?

  184. pat December 21st, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    A question was asked to Jack Curry on the YES show about Montero and the possibility of him playing some 1B.

    Curry said his Yankee sources said Montero will catch some and be the DH. The plan is to let him master being a ML player before they start adding new things for him to focus on. A “keep it simple, stupid” approach seems to be the plan.

  185. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    pat December 21st, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    A question was asked to Jack Curry on the YES show about Montero and the possibility of him playing some 1B.

    Curry said his Yankee sources said Montero will catch some and be the DH. The plan is to let him master being a ML player before they start adding new things for him to focus on. A “keep it simple, stupid” approach seems to be the plan.

    ===========

    Apparently, they think he’s stupid. ;)

  186. CB December 21st, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    The last roster spot on the team…. is the last roster spot on the team.

    How you chose to use it has no bearing on using it as a reason to trade Montero.

    How can I say this?

    I watch al ot of baseball.

    Montero is the best young hitter I’ve seen since Miguel Cabrera – and that’s the best by a significant margin.

    He is a better hitter than Justin Upton and Heyward. He is a better hitter than Mike Stanton. He is not a better all around player than those three – but he’s a better all around hitter.

    This is how good he is. And we’re talking about trading him because of what might happen to Alex in a few years and because of the need to carry a fifth outfielder as the 25th roster spot?

  187. tomingeorgia December 21st, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    GB7,
    The name rang a bell, but my mind search failed. Is that really him?

  188. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    Posada was with the Yanks last season due to his big $$$ contract. You don’t expect him back this season do you?? of course not, he has no contract now. And I agree Cashman will go with 3 C’s unless he deals Montero inna Gio deal. But that doesn’t mean I agree with that philosophy or gotta Like it. Right now I’m Lumpin’ it.

    ———–

    No I don’t expect Jorge back with the Yankees this year, but I’m lost as to what that has to do with the price of tea in China?

    I’m just pointing out that the Yankees, as recently as last year, carried three catchers on their 25 man roster and will likely do it again this year.

    Ideal world they go out and find a better version of Jake Fox, a guy who can catch but can play multiple other positions on the field as well and that’s the guy they stash at the end of the bench. But barring that – Cervelli will join Martin and Montero on the 25.

  189. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    CB December 21st, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    The last roster spot on the team…. is the last roster spot on the team.

    How you chose to use it has no bearing on using it as a reason to trade Montero.
    ==========

    I never said it was.

  190. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    You’re not carrying him for the 10 games he might start – you’re carrying him for the games you might need him if Martin gets hurt and Montero is already in the game at DH.
    ======================================
    Change that to the fraction of a game that could happen in.
    The next day Romine can come up. Stop being so shortsighted. You lose the DH for a few innings, so what?

    —————-

    There’s no reason to even make that a possibility though – as LGY said, you’re talking about the difference between Chris Dickerson or Francisco Cervelli

  191. Pat M. December 21st, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    CB…..Just wanted to comment on your excellent comparison of Jesus Montero to Frank ” The Big Hurt ” Thomas on the previous page…….Outstanding !!! I think the Yanks plan all the long was to call Montero up in September and to let him DH and catch maybe 30-35 games in 2012………Cuban outfielders are impressive in their workouts and The Yanks will be in the game for them ……There is a definate need for outfielders in the organization

  192. CB December 21st, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Ghostwriter,

    I wasn’t specifically referring to your post. It was the general direction of the conversation as I could see it.

    From what I can tell there are too main arguments coming up – what do you do with the DH given that there are aging veterans and how does it impact roster construction.

    I was commenting on that in general. Not to any specific point you made.

  193. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    It seems to me that a lot of folks are concluding that last year’s callup of Romine means that Montero can’t catch, or that the Yanks think that Montero can’t catch. The truth is that we don’t know if Montero can catch, or really what the Yanks think about his catching.

    In any event, be he a catcher or a fulltime DH, Montero stands to add a lot to this team that it was missing last year.

  194. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    CB December 21st, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    ======

    Fair enough. :)

  195. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Doesn’t have to be Dickerson or Cervelli. Could be a (L) RP.

  196. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Pat M. December 21st, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    “………Cuban outfielders are impressive in their workouts and The Yanks will be in the game for them ……There is a definate need for outfielders in the organization”

    ———

    Is this the inside skinny? Were the Yanks duly impressed by Cespedes’s workout?

  197. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:07 pm
    Doesn’t have to be Dickerson or Cervelli. Could be a (L) RP
    ————

    So you want 13 pitchers?

  198. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    A scout that actually witnesses a player and evaluates him is one thaing, a “video” prepared by an agent? That’s David Blaine stuff.

  199. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    With our current possible SP’s? ABSOLUTLEY.

  200. mick December 21st, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    There’s no reason to even make that a possibility though – as LGY said, you’re talking about the difference between Chris Dickerson or Francisco Cervelli
    =================
    The difference is that one is a necessity, the other a luxury.
    One is used if an injury during a game occurs- a rare occurence that can be overcome the next day with a callup.
    The other can be an everyday occurence by sitting inferior OF’s or those in need of a blow.

  201. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    A scout that actually witnesses a player and evaluates him is one thaing, a “video” prepared by an agent? That’s David Blaine stuff.
    ========

    It’s clever marketing of their client. And they did manage to create a buzz around him. I’m definitely intrigued by Cespedes, and the Yanks could use some outfielders.

  202. Nick in SF December 21st, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    If we trade Montero, we free up space to re-acquire Wilson Betemit, who we then flip for another Swisher.

    If we wait a year, maybe we can do it and get back the real Swisher.

    I need to think about this.

  203. LGY December 21st, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    @jnorris427 Josh Norris
    Person with knowledge of situation said, of big names, guy the #yankees seemed most willing to give up around trade deadline was Betances.

  204. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:13 pm
    With our current possible SP’s? ABSOLUTLEY.

    —————

    Oh. Yeah, that’s not happening.

  205. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    There’s no reason to even make that a possibility though – as LGY said, you’re talking about the difference between Chris Dickerson or Francisco Cervelli
    =================
    The difference is that one is a necessity, the other a luxury.
    One is used if an injury during a game occurs- a rare occurence that can be overcome the next day with a callup.
    The other can be an everyday occurence by sitting inferior OF’s or those in need of a blow.
    ====

    That last spot on the roster doesn’t matter until it does, and then it could matter a lot.

  206. Pat M. December 21st, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Ghost……What’s ironic is how two former Yankee 1st basemen now work for 2 different Organizations here in the LA area at different capacities of course, but both clubs were very impressed with Cespedes workouts……As was a club in The Bay area which has a former Yankee reliever heading up a key position in that organization who think both The Cubans will be more than just average guys in the Bigs……

  207. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    mick December 21st, 2011 at 2:14 pm
    There’s no reason to even make that a possibility though – as LGY said, you’re talking about the difference between Chris Dickerson or Francisco Cervelli
    =================
    The difference is that one is a necessity, the other a luxury.
    One is used if an injury during a game occurs- a rare occurence that can be overcome the next day with a callup.
    The other can be an everyday occurence by sitting inferior OF’s or those in need of a blow.

    ——————-

    None of our starting outfielders are inferior to Chris Dickerson.

  208. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    -GHOSTY-
    I’m not saying it is Not clever. I just view it with a raised eyebrow.

  209. Ghostwriter December 21st, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Nick in SF December 21st, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    If we trade Montero, we free up space to re-acquire Wilson Betemit, who we then flip for another Swisher.

    If we wait a year, maybe we can do it and get back the real Swisher.

    I need to think about this.
    ==

    :lol:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ibcEJj_KI

  210. DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    -CHIP-
    Just add another one I’m lumpin’.

  211. CB December 21st, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Pat,

    There’s this general idea that keeps coming up that the DH role is somehow a “waste.”

    I’m really not sure what it is. Partly its the concern of some yankee fans on the aging roster, etc. I don’t know why those players just can’t sit on the bench. Perhaps some of it is from the sabermetric positional adjustment made for the DH spot that’s become a standard way of evaluating the position. Don’t know.

    But 600 at bats are not a waste.

    I remember watching Thomas hit and thinking to myself – what planet is this guy from. He completely transformed that franchise with his presence – even at DH.

    No, it’s not optimal to have a player, especially a younger one DH, but if you can rake you can rake.

    Miguel Cabrera is a largely indifferent 1b. Put him at DH, it’s not like his value disappears. Same for Prince Fielder.

    And there’s simply no reason to rush a 21 year old into catching full time behind the plate. I don’t know why people have created this dualism where either he has to be ready to catch 150 games right now or he’s never going to catch and should be traded.

    The middle course is the right one for this player.

  212. Bronx Jeers December 21st, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    A preemptive Betemit signing to facilitate the inevitable Swisher reacquisition?

    That’s some savvy maneuvering right there.

  213. Chip December 21st, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 21st, 2011 at 2:19 pm
    -CHIP-
    Just add another one I’m lumpin’.

    ———–

    Ok. Just so long as you go into the argument knowing that it’s not going to happen. I would hate to think you honestly thought that was a possibility (though if you did I would also wonder how you managed to figure out how to turn on your computer in the first place :-) )

  214. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 21st, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    I have to say I am mildly shocked the Yankees have done next to nothing with their rotation.

    Re-signing Garcia is fine, low risk.

    Shopping Burnett is wise, albeit difficult to eat the salary a deal would require.

    I guess I assume that they intend to acquire a starter via some trade be it before spring training or the trade deadline.

    But there are so many uncertainties in our rotation beyond CC and, to an extent, Nova, that it seems like Cashman might be overplaying his hand.

    I’m not a person who believes Hughes is just going to magically bounce back and win 18 games…

  215. blake December 21st, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    “Montero is the best young hitter I’ve seen since Miguel Cabrera – and that’s the best by a significant margin.”

    Cashman himself said the same thing. We are talking about a kid that has been compared to Cabrera, Pujols, Frank Thomas, and Edgar Martinez……..if there is even a chance he is that type of hitter then that’s something that doesn’t come around very often and is incrediblely valuable……the most valuable position in baseball is elite hitter.

  216. mick December 21st, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    ——————-

    None of our starting outfielders are inferior to Chris Dickerson.
    =========================================
    A 5th OF could pinchrun for Swisher or spell him in the OF.
    If Tex needs a rest or gets hurt Swish can go to 1st and 5th guy to RF.
    Not worth a 3rd catcher for the portion of a game if Martin gets hurt.
    Everyday possibilities vs 1 time chance of an injury.

  217. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    tomingeorgia December 21st, 2011 at 1:48 pm
    GB7,
    Looked it up: there have been 31 OZ men in MLB. The best around in 2011 were Moylan and Balfour. My all-time favorite was Graehme Loydd, LOOGY supreme for the Yankees some years back. Got traded to the Jays in the package for Clemens, if I recall correctly.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, Tom…that’s the right Almonte. He hurt his arm a few years ago and became an outfielder.

    Pitchers out of Australia have had more luck than the hitters in the majors, pitchers like Lloyd and Moyer. Yanks have had a couple in the system, including a pretty highly rated prospect named Mark Hutton. dodgers and Padres had Craig Shipley, but, he went on to scout and has a front office job for the Red Sox, I think.

    The biggest name out of Australia is probably Dave Nilsson with Milwaukee a few years ago. Big power but couldn’t stay healthy, was a catcher/1st basenan/DH. Actually signed a contract with the yanks a few years ago, then abbruptly retired. Went home and bought a team and DH’d for them and was the league commissioner. Former Yankee 2nd baseman has been managing and scouting in Australia for years.

    The Twins 2nd baseman outfielder Luke Hughes has a lot of power and may do what Nilsson was able to do.

  218. GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Never ceases to amuse me that a lot of people complain about the Yankees buying high priced-long term bats and never develop their own. They finally get that big bat ready to go and they want to trade him in any any every trade they can think up for 2nd line pitchers.

  219. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 21st, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    GB7, couldn’t agree more.

    I think we need to hang on to Montero so that we can avoid having to pay out our ears for a big bat when next we need one.

    I do think that any other prospect should be made available in the right deal.

  220. tomingeorgia December 21st, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    GB7,
    Almonte just made a very good diving catch. Who knew?

  221. RayVT December 21st, 2011 at 4:12 pm

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