One more off the list: Danks agrees to White Sox extension
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 21, 2011 
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Looks like you can take John Danks off the list of potential trade targets for the Yankees.
Tonight he reportedly agreed to a five-year, $65-million extension with the White Sox. Part of the motivation to deal Danks was the possibility of him becoming a free agent after next season. Now, with the extension, it seems the White Sox are planning to keep him in their rotation long term.
Meanwhile, one persistent rumor today has involved another popular trade candidate: Oakland lefty Gio Gonzalez. Multiple reports indicate that the Nationals are making a serious push for Gonzalez, and that they might be willing to give up the huge prospect package Oakland is said to be seeking.
Kuroda vs Patience. Good night, all
Woohoo .
( What else is there to say . Really . )
I do not understand this move by the White Sox. It does not jive with what Kenny Williams has said and done previously.
Nor do I understand this move by Danks. Have he and his agent not seen what has been going on this offseason? Is Danks hiding some secret, like an injury, or is he just driven by some insecurity?
2-3 years from now, people will be talking about Sanchez and the way Girardi and
Cashman are jerking him around and ruining his trade value by not bring him up
to NY and letting him rust away in the minors. Trade him for
(whatever 2nd or 3rd line pitcher you can think of) add him to a bundle and get Felix Hernandez.
NY will bring him along like they have Montero and they’ll want him traded for anything.
In the mean-time, he’ll be DHing for a year or two, catching some and learning
while mashing baseballs into the bullpens and scaring kids in the neighborhoods with those blasts.
The first thing I thought was in regards to some of the fellow lohudders…”Step away from the ledge”–i know a lot of people wanted Danks.
Danks was probably the guy I thought was the most obtainable for a price that suited us best. Didn’t see that happening especially commiting more money. Any chance he is dealt more easily with what seems to be a fair contract in hand?? Could the Sox realistically get a bit more now with the committed money or during the season? Or do they really intend on keeping him?
Joe,
as I said earlier, if Danks doesn’t have some sort of no trade clause, he’ll be out of Chicago by July. His biggest assets was being young, cheap, pretty good and left handed, but, nowhere orth what Williams was asking for a rental. Now, he has value. Still think he’s overvalued because there isn’t those one or two big years that even Wilson had. In fact, 2011 hurt his value, and he knows it. At the end of this deal, he’ll be about 31 and ready for that last big contract and maybe a smaller one after. He has a lot of trade appeal now that he didn’r have 4 hours ago.
“With all due respect, CB, you don’t know that. Steinbrenner was just being his father’s son. ”
Of course I don’t know it to the degree you are describing. I’m not in the room or working for the organization.
But that also doesn’t mean that one can’t come to a reasonable judgement based on what happened and what was reported.
This was widely discussed at the time of the Soriano signing.
Soriano was not signed by the Yankees baseball people. He was a signing directed by Randy Levine.
Ultimately Hal made the decision – but it was at Levine’s recommendation. Levine won out over Cashman.
Just as Levine reportedly won out over Cashman with the ARod signing.
Levine is in charge of the entertainment and political dimensions of the Yankees organization.
If that’s your job, then yes, PR is going to be a major component of it. That just stands to reason, particularly in the contemporary 24/7 media environment we live in.
This was widely reported by multiple sources last winter. I’m not just making this up willy nilly. It was a bizarre situation. The Yankees biggest free agent signing of a winter – and the GM is actively stating at the introductory press conference that he didn’t want the player signed.
So if the baseball people didn’t make the decision – it clearly had to come from another part of the organization.
Here’s a good article by Sherman on the subject:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....Gr35XnnO/1
Anyway – it’s water under the bridge so to speak so its done. It’s just unfortunate that it continues to hamper the organization.
Noticing the blurb on Sanchez from last post, that he has a more pure swing than Montero. Some people think Montero is a Miggy/Big Hurt kind of bat, I agree that he has that kind of potential. How much more pure can you get, can Sanchez’s ceiling be any higher? Are we talking Joe D with more power?
CB,
good thoughts from the prev thread….thanks.
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
The White Sox made a nice deal with John Danks, but it is hard to see how trade of Santos is done from the same blueprint.
4 minutes ago
Can’t argue…..but I think the White Sox got pretty good value in the deal and while I don’t think they signed him to move him….that contract will still be pretty tradeable in the future.
I don’t think people think Sanchez has a better swing than Montero, what people said at the time of his GCL season was that he was farther ahead than Jesus at the same point in time.
As you can tell from looking at his #s in Charleston, he was dwarfed by Montero’s in every way except for his HR total, so again he has something to prove this season.
GB-
I understand Williams being motivated to sign Danks for that amount I just don’t understand Dank’s motivation.
If Williams wanted to trade Danks why not just offerf a negotiating window and let the other team go to town ?
He gets a good return that way too.
This shows one of 2 things :
either Danks really digs Chi Town.
or
He lacks confidence in his ability to bounce back from last season.
If he has a good season and is not traded he screwed himself royally as he would be worth way more.
Coming off of his 2011 season, Danks got a Hell of a deal with a $7 mil a year raise.
I believe that extra Wild Card is factoring into Cashman’s thinking, and making the July 31 Trade Deadline a more realistic date to improve a team than it was previously. Cashman figures the Yanks should at least have the 5th best record in the AL come July 31. Approaching that date the Yankee’s needs will be clearer, and Cashman can act accordingly to go after #28.
I wonder what/if NTC Danks got in this deal? You would think that for this to work he almost would have to have got some sort of trade protection….
GB-
It’s just one season.
blake,
It’s just always difficult to trade the guy with the better hit tool.
Profar is obviously very talented – and talented at a position that’s just so hard to fill – one the yankees really need help at.
But those dimensions that make Profar so potentially good – are all ones that can quickly dissipate if that hit tool doesn’t pan out.
Just look at Iglesias and Hecheverria.
Unfortunately, the player the Yankees really missed out on at SS was Miguel Sano. That was a major miss. They could have just had the player for money. The situation was confusing with the age verification process.
But he’s the real deal. And he could probably stick at SS. That’s the player they really could have used.
Jason22 December 21st, 2011 at 10:14 pm
I don’t think people think Sanchez has a better swing than Montero, what people said at the time of his GCL season was that he was farther ahead than Jesus at the same point in time.
———————————————————————
I’m going by this, from BA:
he showed power to go with a swing that Baseball America says is more pure than Montero’s
I thought the ChiSox were rebuilding, what gives…
“I believe that extra Wild Card is factoring into Cashman’s thinking, and making the July 31 Trade Deadline a more realistic date to improve a team than it was previously. ”
you don’t want to be the WC team under this new system….and Cashman has been quoted as saying that the new rules put more importance on winning the division. You’ll have a better chance of making the playoffs…..but with a 1 game WC round anything can happen so you really really want to build a team to win the division if possible.
Hey John.
We would have paid you more.
Sucker.
Sanchez has a great swing and Montero power, but, he has a few holes to fill in that swing, too. A lot more Soriano than Montero, though. Chases a lot of outside stuff, but, he can hit the ball out of any part of any park. Maybe Soriano is a bit tough, but, Cano without the contact. Has met very few pitches he doesn’t like.
GB – i don’t know. to me, danks had more trade value as a guy with only a one year committment. gms seem like some older guys, you know, afraid of committment.
i can’t imagine that this was done to make the white sox a better team in 2012-2013. why hire a manager with zero experience, and trade santos, your closer? and the whole dance with looking to deal danks now looks strange to me. i don’t get it.
CB,
yea, can’t argue with any of that……
MTU, if your strikeouts dropped, your w-l record sunk under .500 and your ERA jumped by half a run, wouldn’t a $7 mil a year raise please you?
the thing with the 2nd wc is that more teams would be in the hunt, hence fewer gms willing to part with starting pitching.
cb is right, i think. kuroda – if his head is screwed on right – is the one to get. if he’s motivated by money, then show it to him. that’s all you can do. if he decides that he’d rather go back to japan despite that, well, there’s nothing you can do about that.
GB, you’re saying he’s more hype than substance at the moment? Maybe his young age has the scouts more excited than someone a few years older…either way, the catching depth in this organization is utterly ridiculous.
Sanchez, Romine, Murphy, plus two younger guys Tejada, Bird
Who is the catcher of the future?
I am not putting Jesus there as his bat is to important for the future of this team to use him all up by the time he is 30, he should be the part time cacther until Tex is gone and then moved to first if he can play there, if not, he is the Edgar Martinez of the Yankees.
Now we know why KW asked for Montero + Banuelos. He planned to either rip off a team, or simply extend Danks.
Joe, it was a deal for both sides. Williams can move him for a lot more in July, especially if his numbers jump, or keep him for a pretty cheap ace of his new rebuilding staff. On the other hand, danks gets a long ter, $7 mil a year raise after bottoming out this year.
long ***term***
No GB because I would have confidence that I could return to what I really was and therefore would be worth more.
My employer might not think so but I would. I would not let myself be low-balled based on that.
Even a very good pitcher can have a down year and I wouldn’t value myself based on that.
It shows a lack of confidence.
Didn’t say Sanchez was more hype than substance. I said he had Montero’s power, but, holes that need to be closed. His defense is worse than Montero’s at the same age and level, but, in the end, he could very well be or pass Montero’s talents.
For once KW didn’t get fleeced.
The White Sox can easily rebuild their team around Danks as their ace. They can sell off guys like G. Floyd and Carlos Quentin at this year’s trade deadline.
-BLAKE-
Point is, it’s easier getting into the Playoffs now, so why use your resources Before the season even starts to improve your team? July 31 is going to be the date everybody focuses on, and uses those resources to add the pieces necessary.
Joe from Long Island December 21st, 2011 at 9:59 pm
I do not understand this move by the White Sox. It does not jive with what Kenny Williams has said and done previously.
Nor do I understand this move by Danks. Have he and his agent not seen what has been going on this offseason? Is Danks hiding some secret, like an injury, or is he just driven by some insecurity?
———————————————————————
Joe, Williams probably figured he could be blown away by an offer and replenish the system. Since it didn’t happen they signed a very team friendly deal to a solid young lefty. Was a win-win from his side. Maybe Danks really loves it there and didn’t think a few extra million a year was worth uprooting. Some guys do care about more than $ as hard as it is to believe these days.
Blake,
So I guess this means Romine’s not going to be traded for Danks.
Where else do you want to ship him or is he staying in the organization?
MTU December 21st, 2011 at 10:28 pm
No GB because I would have confidence that I could return to what I really was and therefore would be worth more.
My employer might not think so but I would. I would not let myself be low-balled based on that.
Even a very good pitcher can have a down year and I wouldn’t value myself based on that.
It shows a lack of confidence.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Low-balled? Hell, somebody lowball me with a $7 mil a year raise in my paycheck for having a bad year.
Donnybrook,
Everybody is going to be looking to add (buy) at this year’s deadline because there are more open spots that are reachable. Even teams that are WAY out of it are not going to be looking to trade starting pitching – they will need it for the playoff push.
“I am not putting Jesus there as his bat is to important for the future of this team to use him all up by the time he is 30, he should be the part time cacther until Tex is gone and then moved to first if he can play there, if not, he is the Edgar Martinez of the Yankees.”
I think in an ideal world….Montero could catch and DH some for the next 5 years and then take over at 1B when Tex’s contract is up as he’s entering his prime age at 26 or 27…..and then hopefully Sanchez will have taken over behind the plate full time by then.
If Montero’s bat develops the way it could then I don’t want him catching full time forever…..I want him mashing at a less demanding spot.
GB-
Guess we just don’t see it the same way.
I think Williams is the one who got the deal.
If I were Danks I would have made sure I had a great season and gone to FA and gotten even more.
Danks wasn’t getting that kind of raise anywhere else based on that season, unless he got an ERA around or below 3.00, 18-20 wins and near 200 strikeouts just once. he hasn’t been close to any of tose numbers, but he scored more than a 100% raise.
“Point is, it’s easier getting into the Playoffs now, so why use your resources Before the season even starts to improve your team? July 31 is going to be the date everybody focuses on, and uses those resources to add the pieces necessary.”
with more teams in the pennant race….there will be less available at the trade deadline.
Bret,
Don’t know….they’ll just keep him if something that makes sense doesn’t materialize. I’d think Theo would have interest in him as well…..but it would take a lot more than him for Garza.
GB-
Let’s just agree to disagree on this one.
Anyway, he’s made his decision and he is likely out of the picture.
We have to concentrate on improving our team some other way.
he hasn’t been close to any of tose numbers, but he scored more than a 100% raise.
–
Pitchers dont get incremental raises when they are going to free agency. They get paid what they are worth to teams and Danks took a deal that is well below what he would have made on an open market unless he absolutely cratered again next year. His 2008 was already very good and he backed it up with 2 solid years. He was still league average last year.
We will see. I believe teams on the fringe of the Wild Card will deal. The key is if your a team operating onna budget, you need to have room\$$$ to add players. The Yankees fall into this category with 2014 looming large.
MTU December 21st, 2011 at 10:37 pm
GB-
Guess we just don’t see it the same way.
I think Williams is the one who got the deal.
If I were Danks I would have made sure I had a great season and gone to FA and gotten even more.
————————————————————————————————————————-
I remember back when Mantle won the triple crown and he got his huge raise and the next year, because of some injuries, he hit 34 homers, 94 or so RBI and .365 and the Yanks tried to cut his salary by $20,000. Now, they get $7 mil a year raises for being worse.
They had $22/23 million allotted to Cliff Lee. They spent half of that for Soriano. Where is the other half?
MTU December 21st, 2011 at 10:41 pm
GB-
Let’s just agree to disagree on this one.
Anyway, he’s made his decision and he is likely out of the picture.
We have to concentrate on improving our team some other way.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Unless there’s a no trade, I say he’s out of town by July.
Different world GB.
Nobody ever said it’s fair.
blake, that is probably the way I am leaning as well, but the Yankees seem to like Romine a lot, so you never know, he might be the guy for the future, and they eventually use Sanchez as a big chip.
Sanchez was so young for his league last year, I am really curious to see if he becomes what Montero was in the minors or if he continues to have some hiccups.
Most players do not dominate the way Jesus did until he had his issues in Scranton anyway, and even those were overblown when you look closely at what he did.
If Girardi has his way you know he might want Romine as the future catcher, hell he would probably want Martin, but Martin is not going to be the long term catcher, heck I won’t be surprised if he gets injured this year again, and it becomes a Montero Romine tandem like it’s Charleston all over again.
Murphy gives them great flexibility because of his ability to play elsewhere, but he also has to be considered as he can really hit, and his defense has improved greatly since he started to play catcher for the first time really as a pro, according to everyone who has seen him this past year.
-Z MAN -
Hal’s back pocket.
We’ll see GB.
Seems a bit convoluted to me.
I have no idea if a no-trade was included or not.
Guess we’ll find out the details eventually.
If NYYs need an arm so bad, trade Romine and Phelps to Chicago for Floyd and Thornton.
Danks was going to earn 7 million next year, instead he will earn 13 million. That extra 6 million dollars makes his deal the equivalent of a 4 year deal at 58 million or 14.5 million per season. He could have gotten near CJ Wilson money on the open market so it seems he shorted himself about 2 years total and 2 million per year each year.
MTU December 21st, 2011 at 10:44 pm
Different world GB.
Nobody ever said it’s fair.
————————————————————————————————————————-
Bad/down is the same, no matter what world you’re in.
Would I have liked danks on the Yankees? sure, but, not at the prices that Williams was quoted as wanting.
“If NYYs need an arm so bad, trade Romine and Phelps to Chicago for Floyd and Thornton.”
With all these pitchers off the board, Gavin Floyd is going to become a target of all the team that need pitching. Still under control for a couple of seasons, solid pitcher. Romine/Phelps won’t get him.
With the addition of the extra WC, the number of sellers are going to decrease and the number of buyers will increase. If Cash is waiting to be bailed out at the deadline, he better be prepared to pay high prices because if he doesn’t, another team will.
“Murphy gives them great flexibility because of his ability to play elsewhere, but he also has to be considered as he can really hit, ”
I don’t know how accurate the Todd Zeile comp. is…..but that wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world as Zeile was a pretty good player
I want to know what the Yankee price is for Garza.
Eroc,
At some point when do “high prices” get considered “market prices” due to the fact that so many GM’s pay those high prices and set the market?
That’s what bothers me most about Cashman’s talking point about high prices. If everyone else on the market is paying those prices, then that’s the market price. Waiting for a different price is a waste of time.
GB-
All I’m saying I that if the Mick played in THIS era I don’t think the same thing would have happened to him.
He would have gotten a big raise base on those #’s.
If I’m a salesman and I have 1 down year after several very good ones I don’t let my employer base my value on the one bad year.
My argument to him is that I am more like my better years. If he doesn’t buy that I find someone else who agrees with me.
I’m movin’ on GB.
GB-
I was hoping Williams price would come down.
For what he was asking for Danks I agree. no deal.
Certainly not w/o a negotiating window.
“If everyone else on the market is paying those prices, then that’s the market price.”
these decisions aren’t made in a vacuum though…..each team has different things in excess and different levels of need (or want) that would make them do something. The Yanks have certain players they don’t want to trade and teams just don’t seem to be coming off those players right now.
Blake,
There’s no such thing as a pitcher that isn’t “expensive”. That’s the market. So whining about high prices is a con job. There are no “low” or “fair” prices in existence.
There are a lot of theories about the new philosophy that might have pervaded the Yankees organization… but then Levine makes a move like Soriano and you question how firm that philosophy is
On the surface, it looks like they don’t want to pay for something unless it is a significant upgrade at a position of need and don’t want to pay for what they deem as marginal upgrades (i.e. Cameron over Melky, perhaps Hughes/Burnett/Noesi over Kuroda or Oswalt).
Also, I think the Vazquez/Burnett disasters has made them gunshy about pursuing guys who are not truly frontline pitchers at the expense of prospects or a long term deal (though that wouldn’t explain Kuroda who is no risk).
If they don’t sign Kuroda, it would seem that theory #1 would hold true (assuming he wants to come east).
Passed on Haren. Balked at price of Lee. Passed on Greinke. Passed on Jimenez. Passed on Wilson. Passed on Darvish. Passed on Danks. Passing on Gio I bet.
The market moves on without you.
Bret-
Then we go with what we’ve got.
On a lesser note, I think they are conflicted about WHO to remove from the rotation should they get someone. As they showed last year, they avoided making a decision at all, even at the expense of their ace. They don’t want to give up on Hughes even though he is a huge question mark. I don’t think the “sunken cost” mentality is shared by the Yankees on Burnett and don’t want an unhappy guy rotting in the pen and taking up a roster spot since they still can use his “innings”. They don’t fully believe in Nova yet but can’t send him down because he had such a good rookie year. Garcia took less to come here and was effective last year, so even though most think he won’t replicate his 2011, the Yanks want to give him the chance to prove that he can’t replicate it. Noesi is insurance for all 4 of these guys, so that’s why they don’t want to give him a legit shot at the rotation.
“There’s no such thing as a pitcher that isn’t “expensive”. That’s the market. So whining about high prices is a con job. There are no “low” or “fair” prices in existence.”
you have to put a price on guys that you’ll pay….the Yanks don’t want to give their top prospects for 2nd tier guys. Making a bad trade is worse than making no trade…..
Heh. I guess twitter rumors can be reliable sometimes.
Very strange deal.
Don’t understand it from the White Sox or Danks perspective.
“Passed on Haren. Balked at price of Lee. Passed on Greinke. Passed on Jimenez. Passed on Wilson. Passed on Darvish. Passed on Danks. Passing on Gio I bet. ”
Haren is the only one that was a clear mistake…..they offered the most money for Lee.
Blake,
These other teams aren’t making “bad” trades. They’re making market value trades.
The Yankees would have been much better off making an awful deal like trading for a clearly damaged Ubaldo Jimenez.
Would have been much better off making sure they kept up with the market.
Not denying Sanchez’ talent, but extend his 2011 out to 162 games and he’d have about 180 K’s. Don’t know what pure swing means but I hope he cuts down on the K’s.
Blake,
No they refused to included Nunez for Lee. They botched it.
Want Hamels?
You have to convince Philly not to extend him by blowing them away with a trade offer. Otherwise, you’re not meeting market price for starting pitchers – and they will keep him.
These other teams aren’t making “bad” trades. They’re making market value trades.
——
Market Value doesn’t determine how good a trade is. There are plenty of market value deals which are poor moves.
I understand the deal a lot more from the White Sox perspective because it’s a good deal…..the contract is still tradeable and they’ve bought more time to shop him if they decide to totally rebuild. If Danks goes out and has a good 2012 then they could trade him for potentially more next winter because you’d be getting more years……I don’t get it from Dank’s POV unless he just really likes the south side of Chicago.
Oh, no. another stud arm is coming off of the boards. Jason Marquis is going to the Twins.
looks like re-signing Freddy Garcia will be the Yankees’ big move this offseason. sigh.
At what point do you acknowledge the market for starting pitchers like the rest of these GM’s? Never?
“These other teams aren’t making “bad” trades. They’re making market value trades.”
way too early to know
I understand Danks’ perspective. 65 million birds in the hand are worth 75 million birds in the bush.
What exactly is market value?
People are making it out as if baseball is a vibrant market place where millions of buyers and sellers are converging on an equilibrium price point that can be made explicit and easily identifiable.
The A’s took a pittance for Trevor Cahill compared to what they are asking for Gio Gonzalez.
What exactly is the “market price”?
Baseball has far too few transactions to simply state there is an easily identifiable price point that has to be paid to do business.
It’s a hugely inefficient market because its so small. Teams make terrible trades and signings on a regular basis. They would be better off not making any moves at all rather than ones that set them backwards.
“You have to convince Philly not to extend him by blowing them away with a trade offer. Otherwise, you’re not meeting market price for starting pitchers – and they will keep him.”
it’s Hamels decision whether he stays or not.
You don’t know whether Cashman passed on Haren or not. Outside of two teams, nobody knows what they were asking, but, if history shows anything, it was a lot more than they got from the Angels.
Blake,
A huge extension could make that an easy decision. Look at Danks.
Look at the Reds deal for Latos. Was it an overpay? Do you think the fans care? I bet they’re happy their front office is going for it. They’re not bickering about prices and overpays.
Brett,
It also could signal a change in philosophy.
Hal inheriting the throne from George + winning in 2009 has alleviated a tremendous amount of pressure from Cashman. He no longer has to be desperate, creative, innovative, etc. in searching for talent. He has no pressure anymore, relatively-speaking. He isn’t going to be fired. They are only 2 yrs removed from a title, Hal doesn’t crave titles like George does… he craves money and competitiveness. Cashman doesn’t have to search the ends of the earth for commodities. He thinks he can let it come to him.
There is desperation, then there is passiveness. He’s referenced “pitching pitching pitching” preeminently in 2 consecutive off-seasons and it looks like he will come away with nothing. Even when King Felix becomes available…. are you confident he will part with what it takes? I’m not. He will likely cite “high prices” and let Texas, Detroit, etc. or some other AL contender with a good farm get him while he talks up how Mason Williams reminds him of Willy Mays and how Gary Sanchez is the best hitting prospect he has ever seen.
If Hamels doesn’t reach FA (and really, based on what we’ve seen the last couple of years, there is no reason to think he will), Cashman has no game plan. Unless elite talent reaches FA or he can buy it low with B-list prospects (i.e. Granderson), he won’t be getting anyone. There is George in his prime making rash decisions and then there is what Cashman is doing now… a happy medium is needed for success.
When phones to Cashman start with Montero, Banuelos, Betances and……it’s going to be a short conversation.
Another reason that teams often make trades is to attempt to win in a small window….the Reds for example are making moves to try and take advantage of the Cardinals losing Pujols and the Brewers losing Fielder (and Braun for probably 1/3 of the year)….they saw a window before Votto leaves and are trying to capitalize.
The Yankees have built an organization that has a chance to win every year….so there is less urgency to over pay to try and win in small windows at all costs.
Let’s just develop our own guys and forget the rest of this crap.
Way easier.
Have a good night.
C U all manana.
Look at the Ubaldo Jimenez trade.
I’m sure Cleveland fans are thrilled with that move.
The notion of making moves just for the sake of moves is one that no well run business engages in.
It’s this idea that all that matters is “action.”
Yanks 97 =
outstanding post couldn’t agree more
if they are going to go this route, the least they can do is get rid of burnett. he contributes nothing to the present or future of the team.
And in general, you never need to access the “market” if you have viable resources inside of your organization.
The Yankees could upgrade their rotation tomorrow by putting AJ in the bull pen and using Noesi.
I’d like to see the Yankees do things to improve….but it’s difficult to judge without hearing the conversations that Cashman has with other GM’s.
Bret The Hitman December 21st, 2011 at 11:14 pm
Look at the Reds deal for Latos. Was it an overpay? Do you think the fans care? I bet they’re happy their front office is going for it. They’re not bickering about prices and overpays.
———–
Good for the Reds. Glad they’re staying competitive. The Yankees don’t need to worry about staying competitive. Name all the organizations with better rosters.
Yank 97,
Nice post. There’s no way to snag an elite starter without it stinging. If Cashman’s waiting for some sweetheart deal for a pitcher he’s living in a fantasy world. But like you said, he can afford to dream now because he’s not on the hot seat. As long as this team makes the playoffs, Hal is happy. A team that makes the playoffs is a perfect team in his mind because the bulk of tickets sell throughout the regular season. A playoff team doesn’t need to be tweaked, even one bounced from the first round 2 years in a row. Nice philosophy.
CB December 21st, 2011 at 11:16 pm
Look at the Ubaldo Jimenez trade.
I’m sure Cleveland fans are thrilled with that move.
The notion of making moves just for the sake of moves is one that no well run business engages in.
It’s this idea that all that matters is “action.”
————
Jimenez really is the perfect example. He was praised as the cure all because he was one of the few solutions the market provided at the trade deadline. The Yankees wisely passed. He didn’t help the Indians out any, he wouldn’t have helped the Yankees out any, and he didn’t magically become better midway through the season. Never mind the ridiculous asking price for used goods.
Damned. The Mets trolls must be getting desperate. They’re starting before Christmas this year. Santa’s going to leave you two a stocking full of reindeer dung…which is worth more than the two of you together.
“If Cashman’s waiting for some sweetheart deal for a pitcher he’s living in a fantasy world.”
I doubt that’s what he’s doing….I just dont think there has been a pitcher out there that he likes well enough to part with the guys that everyone asks for.
Night everyone….
The jury’s still out on Jimenez. Think the Brewers fans were mad about the Greinke deal? Lots of these deals work out. Non-move doesn’t mean “smart move”. Only in Cashman speak. But then there’s Danny Haren and the non-move not including Nunez for Lee. Smart non-moves?
you know that your stuff is ate up with dumbass when bret agrees with you and you didn’t even mention trading for David Dejesus.
Last winter the biggest mistake the Yankees supposedly made was to not sign Carl Crawford.
At the trade deadline the major disaster was not having the “guts” to trade for Ubaldo Jimenez.
It’s just sort of remarkable that the team not making awful moves is somehow contorted into a criticism related to inaction.
The logic is that a bad move is better than no move at all.
Let’s trade for Vernon Wells… its a trade after all.
The jury is still out on Jiminez but, they gotta get rid of Hughes. Sounds logical…in bizarro world.
CB December 21st, 2011 at 11:18 pm
And in general, you never need to access the “market” if you have viable resources inside of your organization.
The Yankees could upgrade their rotation tomorrow by putting AJ in the bull pen and using Noesi.
—
I think they will give AJ another chance for 2 or 3 months, then if he is still bad, they will replace him with Noesi, another minor leaguer (maybe Betances is dominating AAA for example), or acquire someone via trade (less likely).
GB,
Why would a guy who doesn’t even have a GED insult someone’s intelligence?
If I were a Brewers fan I’d just be mad as hell they traded Brett Lawrie for Shaun Marcum.
Holliday, Haren, Lee, Greinke. All smart non-moves?
blake,
Perhaps. But if King Felix ever does become available, he’s not getting him for Betances, Noesi, and Romine.
It’s going to hurt. I’m not even sure a deal would be possible without Montero considering their needs.
Cash can’t be looking to heist GMs (not accusing him of doing that, just saying). I can understand not overpaying for the likes of Danks and Garza, but if the opportunities arises to acquire elite pitching, he can’t play be picky. If he does, someone else will get him. It’s going to be an endless cycle.
At the same time, I can see why he would hold onto Montero considering the troubling signs and age that the offense has demonstrated the last couple of years, ditto Mason Williams and Sanchez. But he’s going to have to give to get.
You can find flaws in any pitcher. that is why they are available.
Kershaw, Matt Moore, Verlander, Jon Lester, etc. are not going to become available. Just have to take risks.
I wouldn’t have gambled on Jimenez either – NL West guy, herky-jerky mechanics, walked 90 guys even in his best year, lots of talk about his mental makeup being questionable, plus O’Dowd was willing to trade him in a winnable division on a great contract. He also was going to cost top prospects.
Haren is a different story. ARI was giving him away basically and he had a much, much distinguished profile than Jimenez. A strike throwing, durable guy who threw strikes and excelled in both leagues. That was the time to take advantage of the turmoil in ARI and get him on the cheap.
Bret – you’re pushing it here. you’d rather make a bad trade than no trade?
Hey, the Yanks made a bold move last winter and got Rafael Soriano. How’d that one do? Or, doesn’t it count because they got him without having to give up a package of Montero, Banuelos, and Nunez?
C’mon, Bret, you’re smarter than that. Do you really want to be the Red Sox?
“The jury’s still out on Jimenez.”
Not true in any way. That move is already a huge problem for the Indians.
The Indians traded for Jimenez to push them into the playoffs for 2011.
Yes he was signed for additional seasons – but Cleveland made that move because they felt they had a window.
Jimenez added no value to them at all during the period when they needed him greatly.
No one is saying don’t make any deals. It depends on what the price is.
I watched Jimenez pitch this season. My first reaction as I watched him was – something is wrong. He’s just not throwing the ball right. He’s not finishing his pitches.
But people were adamant about the Yankees needing to trade for him just because of his name.
The Yankees aren’t desperate. They have internal resources.
These constant needs to make hot stove are just another example of instant gratification and constant stimulation.
All that matters is the churn.
Greinke is wildly overrated. Lee was an awful decision by the Mariners, how is that the Yankees fault? And we held onto a ROY candidate, our top prospect, and a solid utility player. Whatever man, the Rangers were no better off in the end.
Think the Brewers fans were mad about the Greinke deal?
———————————————————————
That’s because they gave up nothing to get him. They were asking way more from the Yankees
Other than Swisher (almost a no-brainer) and getting Granderson, the other good trade that Cashman made was getting abreu for next to nothing. Once other teams realized that Cashman wasn’t a Steinbrenner lackey, they got wise to how badly he was taking them to the cleaners and making it look like it was their idea. I’m sure that I missed a couple, but, that’s a pretty good haul. Even the vazquez deal was a good idea considering what they gave up for what they were getting off of that year’s numbers. It backfired., but, still a good idea. Cashman’s value is in deals like martin and convincing sabathia to trade the West Coast for a few bucks.
C;mon bret, now you’re groping. you know that montero was offered up for halliday. i know doc isn’t as revered as gio, but still….
and lee was offered very good money. he and his wife just wanted to go to philly. not that it did the phils any good.
think with your head, not your……
Joe,
I’m just point out there are plenty of non-moves that were not-so-smart and that it’s dishonest of Cashman to portray non-moves as smart and constantly bickering about prices when other GM’s are meeting those prices (i.e. the Cards for Holliday, the Angels for Haren, the Rangers for Lee, the Brewers for Greinke).
I’m not going to be ashamed of wanting my team to improve when they get bounced from the first round. I’m not going to hang my head low because I expect at least a tweak when they don’t win the ALCS. And I’m not satisfied when they don’t win the world series. Not winning it all is a loss and I hate losing and love winning. I’m not gonna hide that.
Joe,
Matt Holliday.
The fact is – both the trade market and free agency are becoming progressively more inefficient.
Teams have enough money to keep players.
So they are generally only looking to trade an asset if either they absolutely must or if they are ripping off the opposition.
The Danks situation in that regard is emblematic.
Williams asked for a huge overpay. He was basically saying I’m not moving this player unless I extract much more value than I’m giving up.
It’s just flat out dumb to make that move as you know you are going to lose it.
No business operates that way. I’ll give up more value in the transaction than I’m getting back.
No one who has ever run anything of note in their lives is going to operate by those principles.
The direction in baseball is clear – if you want talent you better develop it yourself because there’s absolutely no guarantee that you can acquire it on the market without overpaying for it.
That’s the state of the game now.
And if you look at the context of the Yankees division – right now they have a huge competitive advantage over the Sox because the yankees farm system is much, much better than the Sox.
What great moves have they made this winter? None.
Just making bad trades and giving away talent will only serve to decay the move substantive competitive advantage the yankees have over their chief rival.
I’m sure the Brewer fans would rather have a budding superstar in Lawrie back instead of a pitcher in Marcum who breaks down every single second half
maybe it’s just me, but the way i see things is that the yankees were one starter away from being a winning team in october.
they have aging superstars, arod and jeter, who are beginning the transition to the next crop of superstars, in cano and monter (let’s all hope)
and from the discussion today, there are some real studs in the farm system.
and let’s not forget the huge financial advantage they have.
if i were cashman, i’d call up the seattle gm and remind him that he’s really got nothing but ichiro and the legend of smoak. offer him anyone not named montero or banuelos and get king felix. even if it’s 5 or six prospects. reload them.
felix and cc with the bullpen the yankees have is about as good as it gets. if hughes comes back big, all the more bonus. if nova repeats, awesome. if noesi pitches well, even better.
but those two aces and the guys in a and aa are a lot for other teams to deal with
It’s comical that certain moves are just cherry picked.
Again, some of the biggest “non-moves” the yankees have been criticized for not making over the past year were Carl Crawford and Ubaldo Jimenez.
Those were the two that garnered the most attention.
Both were awful deal for the teams that acquired them.
But those outcomes don’t matter. They are conveniently overlooked.
Same with the Cliff Lee trade. It would have been great to give up Montero for a rental who didn’t want to play in NY.
These all would have made the Yankees much worse.
But somehow these are badges of honor? Some mock standard for expectations and “wanting to win”
Awful talent evaluation is somehow a positive if it leads to more transactions.
bret – i know it’s frustrating. sports are that way.
but you have to put emotions aside, else one makes rash and hasty moves that you wind up regretting – kind of like the action in a bar at closing time
cash did have a deal in place for lee – he was trading a package centered around montero. jack z then went out and changed his mind, getting what he really wanted, smoak whom he scouted when he was still scouting. and he messed up royally with that one. but you can’t blame cash there. if z wanted smoak, nothing cash could do about that.
cash then went heavily after lee, just as he did for cc in 08. cc signed up, lee didn’t. it happens.
despite all these “missed opportunities”, they yanks still manage to have one of the best records every year, and go to the tourney. they did win it all as late as 09, after all. none of the teams that made those bold moves – red sox, brewers, m’s, angels, indians, phils after 08 – can say that those moves brought them to the top.
on that note, got to get to bed. not as young as i used to be, and it’s another early day tomorrow.
good night, all. pleasant dreams of smilin’ mighty jesus wallopin’ one onto the 5th floor of some building…….
Joe,
Fair enough. I just don’t like Cashman’s lip service. The only thing that’s come out of his mouth recently that I actually appreciated was when he admitted he got lucky with Garcia and Colon. I felt that was honest.
Brett – I also think that the fact that they were knocked out so many times over the years by inferior teams (and saw inferior teams go on big runs – Cards in 2011 and 2006, Rockies in 07, Giants/Rangers last year, Tigers in 06, etc.) made them realize that they don’t need to stack up “on paper” with other teams and have come to accept the postseason as a crapshoot. Thus, they will play it safe, try and develop talent and make smart moves and not spend unless it is on top, proven talent.
To be fair, Jack Z. saved Cashman from himself in the Montero-Lee deal. That was a done deal, Jack Z backed out
This entire conversation is particularly ironic because the one move the yankees have recently made that really was just the sake of making a move was Soriano.
Which of course was a terrible move.
They completely overpaid for a redundant talent they didn’t need because the non-baseball operations leadership decided that the team had to do “something.”
Only Yankee fans could completely overlook a free agent signing of 3 yrs/36M and try to make it out as if the Yankees have done “nothing” the past two years.
There was a move. But somehow that’s ignored and the simplistic narrative is that they did “nothing” last winter.
Not true. They made a move. A bad one. But it was a move after all. They would have been better off not making the move – but let’s just forget about that.
And its only December. Let’s wait and see what happens.
The paid Soriano market value, therefore it was a good move.
These conversations about transactions are completely secondary as it is.
What matters is talent evaluation. The only way to make intelligent moves is if you can actually evaluate the talent in question.
For example, if you actually think that Carl Crawford is a rapidly improving player who is ready to be a “middle of the order” force then you are going to make an awful deal.
If you wath Ubaldo Jimenez pitch and can’t see he’s not right – then you are going to make an awful deal.
If you watch Haren pitch and can’t tell that he’s pitching poorly for temporary reasons you’re going to miss an opportunity.
Talent evaluation is everything.
And if you can’t do it well then you are going to get hurt in the “marketplace” even if you pay “market value.” Without proper talent evaluation you’re never going to know how to price an asset.
Good night.
IIRC the Soriano signing coincided with one of the big season ticket payment due dates.
People don’t like forking over the same amount of money knowing that the team payroll is going down.
This season ticket prices are dropping a bit which to me is the Yankee way of saying to the fans…”don’t expect us to make a big splashy move this winter
Brett, Cashman’s job doesn’t include being forthright with the fan base or the media. If he was he would be doing a disservice to said fans and the team itself, who cares about the media.
blake December 21st, 2011 at 8:17 pm
“The magazine compares him to… brace yourselves… A.J. Burnett.”
I think I just heard Prufrock roar
///
Nah, just a snicker. I guess they went to the game where he walked nine guys – you know, the one Austinmac is fond of referencing as a reason to get rid of him.
Seriously, I’d be surprised if the guys who put that together aren’t relying on derivative chirps and have never seen the kid pitch. Since I have, and often, I really have little use for their “scouting” reports. The comparison betrays the kind of facile stuff they try to pass off as a quality evaluation. It’s only “true” in the most superficial sense.
O ther GMs are asking for prospects that they want badly but telling Cashman they’re only worth 10 cents on the dollar but think their players are worth a buck 25 on the dollar. that’s fine for an opening joke, but, when it comes time to be serious, they don’t move off of that. Then, they move on to the next team and become more reasonable. eventually, they will realize that GMS’s impetuous dealings passed on with him. It’s not business as it was. It’s business as it is, and if you don’t like it, move on down the road. Cashman has been trying to push the “grow your own” for a long time and now he’s doing it. Fans don’t like it, but, guess what….too bad. I think what fans don’t like it that Cashman and Company are right. A lot of Yankee fans are becoming like Red Sox fans and even Ranger fans…they like shiney, bright objects…especially if they are somebody elses. Try practicing the patience that Cashman is talking. The Yanks are still winning a lot of games and starting to lower the cost of operations. That will leave a lot of money for something that is really a need instead of a want. Cashman deals in needs. Fans deal in wants. right now, there really aren’t any needs…only wants.
Cleveland is looking at going for Beltran. Not sure why. They have 6 now, Beltran is 7. who goes to the minors and which two get traded out of Choo, Brantley, Duncan and Ezequiel Carrera. Keep in mind that 3 of them may have injury concerns (Beltran, Sizemore and Choo).
Did the Rangers pull a Theo and completely overbid the Blue Jays and others? somebody thinks so.
“The Rangers won the rights to Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish with a $51.7MM bid this week and though the Toronto Star reported yesterday that the Blue Jays weren’t far behind, reports today indicate the Rangers outbid rival teams by a significant margin.
Jeff Blair said this morning on Sportsnet 590 the FAN that the Blue Jays “did not bid $50MM, as the Toronto Star is reporting. That’s totally, absolutely false and inaccurate” (hat tip Drunk Jays Fans). Buster Olney of ESPN.com believes the Blue Jays were in, but not close and suggests “nobody, including Toronto, was within country miles” of the Rangers’ bid (Twitter links). Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com agrees that no one else was close. The Rangers easily out-bid the Blue Jays and the Yankees bid in the $15-17MM range, according to Heyman.”
Trading ace Hernandez would benefit M’s
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ial-122111
Includes use of the phrase “smoke the objective pipe”.
jnorris427 Josh Norris
If BA’s projections are right, this will be the 1st year the Thunder begin without a Top 10 prospect since becoming a Yanks affiliate.
jnorris427 Josh Norris
By the same notion, however, I could see them finishing the year with at least two of the 10 on the roster. @TrentonThunder #Yankees
CB and GB are two of the very few that are making consistent sense out here in blogland.
For some time, Cashman has been refocusing on the system – and the system has produced: Karstens, Clippard, Ohlendorf, Kennedy, Hughes, Joba, Robertson, Cano, Gardner, Cervelli, Nova, Nunez, Noesi, Montero, Romine. And there were others. Some were traded, while about 10 of them are on the roster. That’s impressive. It’s also good long term economics.
Cashman talks about pitching, pitching, pitching, and he’s right. But its prohibitively expensive to sign a talented FA pitcher these days. More and more talent (pitching and position players) is being signed to long term contracts buying out their FA years, so that teams can control costs. And it works, and is becoming THE way baseball business will be done.
If Banuelos becomes what many feel he will within 2 or 3 years of major-league time, it would behoove the Yankees to do the same, and give him a 5 year deal as Danks just got, otherwise be ready to replicate a CC-sized contract PLUS.
We have enough to compete and win the division. Again.
boston hasn’t improved, and in fact it’s pitching may be worse than last season.
Toronto didn’t get their man, and thus far, haven’t gotten an additional major bat.
Rays are an excellent team, and to me, they’re the only competition in the division.
Baltimore doesn’t count – no pitching/perpetual rebuilding.
The Soriano signing was a consolation prize to losing on Lee, and wasn’t a good baseball decision. He was superfluous. IMO, he’s worthy of a trade, but he’s not worth the contract – on this team, at THIS time. Should Mo be injured, that may change, but chances are Robertson would become the closer, and Soriano would just be a rather expensive setup man. But the point is, that wasn’t Cashman’s decision – and right now, he’s making good long-term decisions for this team.
And just in case we’re unsure he is, just remember that most teams dealing with him start by asking for Montero, Banuelos, and Betances. That says it all.
I’m willing to go to battle with what we now have, warts and all, with CC, AJ, Garcia, Nova, Hughes, and Noesi, because I know we have young arms such as Phelps, Warren, and Mitchell ready to fill-in where needed in 2012, and right behind them we have Banuelos and Betances.
Who knows, we’ve had a famed Core Four. We may just have another under our nose, and not even realize it.
Night all…
LMAO.
Danks was the big trade bait. And now they extend him.
Just catching up but I will say this about Ubaldo, let’s see how his 2012 season in Cleveland goes before thrashing the trade….Yes The Tribe gave up a lot for certain, but he’ll be anchoring that staff for several more seasons……I’m still believing the guy will be a dominant force in 2012 and beyond….
GreenBeret7 December 21st, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Tom,
Did you catch the name of the right fielder that just made that throw to the plate? daniel Almonte. That’s the 15-16 year old Little Leaguer from NY a few years back.
===============
Sorry, just catching up….
Actually, the RF’er in the “down under” ASG today was DENNY Almonte…
http://tinyurl.com/7outsku
The World CF’er had a decent day as well.
Hurry up guys, Felix needs some help
Missed some good conversation last night.
If I might interject some thoughts on the Soriano signing. I do agree with CB that it was largely a PR move, but I think that Levine was able to sell it to Hal because Mo was 41 years old at the time; he admitted to pitching through the 2009 WS with some discomfort; and we all know as you get older the aches and pains increase and the ability to bounce back quickly decreases.
I think Cashman had faith in Robertson and Joba, but Levine was able to convince the front office that w/o Mo the Yankees had no one with a track record as a closer to rely upon.
So, PR in origin, but able to spin it as “Mo” insurance.
Soriano did seem to have an attitude adjustment after his stint on the DL. He has stated he loves being in the BP with Mo. He had some improved outings after the DL stint. If he has a better year next season, the Yankees have a very good situation. They have 4 pitchers with closer ability (once Joba comes back) to “close out” games after 5 or 6 innings. If they rotate the 4 of them, they can consistently be in a position to “end” games after the 6th inning, with the occasional 5th inning “close.”
CC can go 7 and 8 innings regularly. Nova showed he can go 7. Garcia will be a 5-6 inning guy most of the time. We don’t know about Hughes, yet, but he should be able to be a 7 inning guy, but at worst a 6 inning guy. AJ is AJ. He could go 2, he could go 8 on any given day.
So that’s the positive spin. I also think that because of the way Robertson developed, and the way the bullpen performed, Cashman showed ownership that he was right. I don’t believe they will make the same kind of panic move.
Also, last year, the Yankees were all-in on Lee and lost out. The key word being “lost.” Levine was able to capitalize on that. This year, the Yankees have not been all-in on anyone; there is no sense that they have lost out, because nothing was put on the line. Cashman laid the groundwork for a slow winter. The expectations were lowered. Last season the expectations were sky high – Cliff Lee.
BTW – Good morning.
Morning Nova,
I read the posts, I disagree with many. I thought your comments were very thoughtful.
I’m ready for them to just stay Pat, I don’t think it will work, but absent seeing it fail or work it is the direction we are on. I see the Yanks being more of a player in next years offseason as I think there will be considerably more pressure on Cashman to make some deals.
Good morning.
With Danks now locked up in Chicago for the next six years, potential trade targets include Oakland’s Gio Gonzalez and Jonathon Niese of the Mets, although both are believed to carry hefty asking prices.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....e-1.995301
What’s so special about Jonathon Niese?? Career 4.39 ERA and 1.46 WHIP
There seem to be 2 basic camps out there.
Those who kind of insist on the Yankees making a move, and those who would do so only under the right circumstances.
The disagreements seem to center on what talent should be considered untouchable, and how much
money should be forked over.
I,m of the opinion that Montero, the B’s, and Mason Williams should be considered untouchable except for premium talent.
With regard to spending money to acquire guys it appears that the GMS days of free-spending are gone.
There is a definite budget in place and extra expenditures need to be thoroughly vetted and justified.
FWIS that’s the “new” environment in Yankeeland. If you can’t or won’t deal with it you better find yourself another club because that’s how it is right now.
All of us would love to improve our team to the point where we seem invincible but as we saw with the Phils and Sux last year that doesn’t always work either.
I’m all for improving our club but it is gonna be done in a different way now. I think it is probably a good thing long term.
My apologies for the length of the post.
Red Sox expected to name Bob McClure as pitching coach.
And Good Morning, by the way.
Appears that another LoHud favorite will soon be off the list:
Beltran has two and three-year offers and hopes to decide on a new team this week, according to Scott Miller of CBSSports.com (all Twitter links). The Blue Jays and Cardinals are among Beltran’s most aggressive suitors, Miller reports. The switch-hitter appears to be weighing a more substantial contract offer against a city he prefers. He is open to DHing on a part-time basis.
Toronto with the substantial offer-St Louis the city and league he prefers?
pat-
Who the heck is Bob McClure ?
Any bio on the guy ?
Gary -
I haven’t been thrilled by any of the pitchers mentioned this off-season, and I’d rather the Yankees start out with what they have than make a move that proves too costly (in terms of the future).
I’d trade prospects in the right deal. Everything out there this winter comes with basically the same questions marks as the in-house pieces. Gio seems like a good risk, but then you look more closely at those stats and he becomes a question mark for the Yankees (he may very well fit perfectly with some other team). Danks seemed like he could fit if the price was right and I guess it never was – Williams looking for return on the Swisher move, I guess.
I had hoped they’d be able to acquire another lefty for the rotation, and I don’t get caught up in #2, #3, etc., because that seems to unfold during the course of the season based on performance and is really most important in the playoffs. So, I’m happy to let that unfold as it will. There is still time left, and I am impressed with the stockpile of arms in AAA and below.
I think they’ll be okay.
McClure – Left handed pitcher. 18 year MLB career that appears to have been decidedly ordinary (102 ERA+). Mostly a reliever.
Well at least Danks is off the market so we won’t have to hear the constant talk about him on here. I never got the fascination with him anyway.
So now we are down to 4 pitchers that “could” become free agents next year. I figure at the least the Brewers will sign 1 of the 2 of Marcum and Grienke so that would bring it down to 3
MTU-
Good post. The new CBA is basically offering the Yankees 40M plus resetting the luxury tax to a 1st time offender for them at 17.5% if they keep their 40 man payroll below 189M in 2014.
They will still have ARod, CC, Tex and Jeter under contract, if Jeter picks up his 8M player option. That’s some 78M plus ARods HR incentives. Cano and Granderson will likely commit another 35M or so in extensions, so for 6 players the payroll in 2014 will be 115-120M.
Gary-Cashman will be under pressure, not to add costly and long contracts, from the Yankee owners.
Luckily they have a good nucleus of players, with some outstanding position players now, in the pipeline.
VN-
The question really is “Will they be good enough to win it all as constitued ?”
I don’t have much doubt that they will make the playoffs again.
I love how Gary already has the Yankees losing in the first round next year.
Gary reminds me a lot of old blog friend Betsy. Hmmmmm.
YT-
It’s good that the Yankee Braintrust were wise enough to see the future and build up the Farm.
They will still make “strategic acqusitions” when they make sense.
I like the model, and it seems to fit the times.
I still want Soler, and possibly Cespedes.
Keep filling that pipeline in areas of potential need.
Good morning!
I think the Yankees have become smarter about FAs. They no longer make a move just to make a move if it doesn’t really improve the team.
Looking forward to seeing what Montero does.
We talk about our AA and AAA pitching.
Thing is we have some potentially very good arms behind that, i.e. Bryan Mitchell, Brett Marshall, jose Ramirez, and hopefully DePaula.
And at C we have the best pipeline in baseball.
We are stacked folks.
Face it.
McClure was Royals pitching coach for a number of years. Lately has been scouting for the Sox. Nothing official but it’s being reported by multiple people he’s gonna be the guy.
Thanks Pat.
Happy Holidays
Morning all
Just saw the Danks news……..
Sorry Blake….
2013 FA starters:
Starting pitchers
Scott Baker (31) – $9.25MM club option
Joe Blanton (32)
Matt Cain (28)
Fausto Carmona (29) – $9MM club option
Kevin Correia (32)
Jorge De La Rosa (32) – $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout
Ryan Dempster (36)
R.A. Dickey (38) – $5MM club option with a $300K buyout
Scott Feldman (29) – $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout
Gavin Floyd (30) – $9.5MM club option
Freddy Garcia (37)
Zack Greinke (28)
Jeremy Guthrie (34)
Cole Hamels (29)
Dan Haren (32) – $15.5MM club option with a $3.5MM buyout
Tim Hudson (37) – $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Colby Lewis (33)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Kyle Lohse (34)
Derek Lowe (40)
Shaun Marcum (31)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Brett Myers (32) – $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout
Carl Pavano (37)
Jake Peavy (31) – $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout
Anibal Sanchez (29)
Jonathan Sanchez (30)
Ervin Santana (30) – $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout
James Shields (31) – $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Chien-Ming Wang (33)
Jake Westbrook (35) – $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines
Dontrelle Willis (31)
Randy Wolf (36) – $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Carlos Zambrano (32) – $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano’s Cy Young voting placement
Cain will most likely sign an extension and stay in pitcher friendly Candlestick.
Hamels will either sign an extension from the free spending Phillies, or return to his home in California?Angels if they don’t pick up Santana’s option?
Shields option is likely to be picked up by whatever team he’s with for 2013.
Anibal Sanchez-Will the Marlins extend him?
Colby Lewis?
Mike-
What about me ?
I wanted him too (at the right price).
YT-
I’ve posted that list before.
It’s a strong class but these days teams are locking up many of their guys.
Lol lol you too MTU….sorry
I asked about potential trade canidate Jonathon Niese. I know he’s young and a lefty, but what’s so special about him, that the Mets are asking for a Gio Gonzalez package?
See 7:45 post and attachment.
At this point I’ll be happy if Hughes and Noesi have something like 28 wins between them as the No. 3 & 4 starters with Garcia as the No. 5.
If Cashman is able to find a taker for Burnett, so much to the better otherwise make him a high paid long reliever or bullpen mop up man. No surprise to me if one of Warren, Phelps, or Mitchell emerge as help.
Tired and now relieved of the back and forth kiddie games with Kenny Williams wanting the Yankees to overpay for Danks.
Cashman can tweak the roster with whatever is needed between April and the end of July.
“The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin’.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’.”
Courtesy of one Bob Dylan.
I’ve posted that list before.
It’s a strong class but these days teams are locking up many of their guys.
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MTU-
Exactly. Pitching is key. More teams are flush with cash. More teams are now in the hunt for the playoffs. Only 2 other teams are closing in or or are potentially going to be over over the 178M payroll for 2012-Red Sox and Phillies. Not every FA wants to truly wear the pinstripes and play in NY. They might say they do to get top dollar when theiy become FA’s.
You’re right. Now might be the offseason for the Yankees to fill their minor league system with international players like Jorge Soler and look closely at Cespedes for the parent club. If he’s the real deal, Gardner becomes the 4th OF’er.
Happy Holiday back at ya’ MTU.
Pat-
Please remember to HSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS at me once in awhile so I don’t mis Erica too much.
YT-
I hope we get at least one.
What ever happened to Hiroki Kuroda. Mystery team in Japan pining for his services?
If Andruw Jones signs elsewhere, so be it. Unlikely to settle for the same 2M he received last year, although I believe he still is getting $$$ from the Dodgers.
Still can’t hit good offspeed stuff and batted .172[albeit small sample] against righties.
YT-
Kuroda should decide soon.
If the Yankees don’t get him watch out. This place will go into a tailspin.
Off topic, (but of the utmost importance if you’re a TV addict like myself)
A guide to various Christmas Eve/Day marathons this weekend:
http://www.tvline.com/2011/12/.....-specials/
MTU-
I’m actually one of those people , along with Pat M, CB and others who feel he’d be a solid one year addition to the rotation, without giving up prospects. Still has good velocity, and owns a mean splitter.
YT-
I am more neutral on the guy. I think he is expensive even though it’s for 1 season.
Not sure he will translate to the AL East either.
Probably a moot point anyway since it does not appear he is headed our way.
Good luck though.
wait…don’t you guys mean KURODA!!!
this message has been approved by LGY
Erin-
Morning. Does Millionaire Matchmaker make your DVR/TIVO must watch later list?
Blake and LGY need to come to the party this morning.
YT-
For the risk/reward I’d probably prefer another “dose” of Bartolo.
YT-
Blake is still hung over. He didn’t bounce back as well as I did from Danks.
LGY is still working on his bacon.
If you want a FA lefty, Paul Maholm is still out there. I don’t want him unless he takes a minor league deal.
YT-
Can he get lefties out as a LOOGY ?
Joba_62 Nothing like waking up with ur son right next to u….breathing on u with morning breathe! #dadtweet
For the risk/reward I’d probably prefer another “dose” of Bartolo.
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MTU-
By “dose” are you referring to a redose of stem cells to that arm of his?
Morning YT! I think I’ll probably skip Millionaire Matchmaker.
Erin-
That’s love. Morning breath can be pretty bad.
YT-
Calling Dr. Purita.
Dr. Purita OR #1 Stat.
Colon on the table ready to receive Magic potion # 9.
Here’s a nice synopsis of Yankee News:
http://www.pinstripealley.com/.....-and-notes
And from RAB’s article yesterday on the remaining potential pitchers[minus John Danks].
http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....ket-61392/
YT-
Viable options given the right conditions :
Garza ( for Kate)
Kuroda
Oswalt
Colon
For better or worse AJ is ours. Embrace it!
He can be a little like Russian Roulette and the expectation was for more than they have gotten but he (knock on wood) has been healthy and able to take the ball every 5th day.
Remember the years when the Yankees ran through the conga line of Chase Wrights/Darrel May/Tim Reddings’ of the world? I would have preferred Russian Roulette.
Also, Cashman has been working with a PR aspect to the budget since he joined the Yankees. It’s how George operated. He liked shiny new toys. Soriano was a want not a need but it’s not like they grabbed a random guy off the street, paid him alot of money and told him he’s setting up for Mo.
I get the feeling Cashman might be more concerned with budget than management. Wants to prove that he can GM with the best of them and not just be the guy who hands out checks?
Gossip Tweet:
JoAnnaLGarcia Got all my wrapping DONE! All that’s left is @NickSwisher’s presents. He’s been snooping, but hasn’t found my secret hiding spot
So, who are you dumping to get Kuroda into the rotation? NY is not going to be able to trade Burnett and dumping Hughes is beyond stupidity. He’s 25 years old, talented and a good part of the future of the rotation. Are you dumping the a pitcher making $5 mil for the same type of pitcher that you’re going to pay $10-$12 mil per for up to 2 years?
MTU:
Winning it all as currently constituted.
Wondering about that is a fool’s errand.
You have to be able to get to the playoffs, and I believe that as currently constituted the Yankees can do that.
As for winning it all, you can run off quite a list of teams that were constituted to go the distance, and the Phillies and Red Sox of 2011 are just the most recent examples. You can also run off quite a list of teams who DID go the distance who were not supposed to sniff the post-season, let alone a world championship.
Erin December 22nd, 2011 at 8:54 am
Gossip Tweet:
JoAnnaLGarcia Got all my wrapping DONE! All that’s left is @NickSwisher’s presents. He’s been snooping, but hasn’t found my secret hiding spot
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I wonder how much JoAnna paid for a new “clutch bat” for Nick?
Pat-
I think Chip proposed that same theory on Cashman’s mindset yesterday.
Personally I don’t buy it.
I think the higher ups are concerned with the budget and Cashman is GIVEN his marching orders.
Of course, if he can fill the mandate he just looks so much the better.
What GM wouldn’t like to have an open wallet ?
Makes the job easier. Greases the skids. Lubes the bearings. Oils the wheels.
You get where I’m going.
New, very interesting, thread —>
“Blake is still hung over. He didn’t bounce back as well as I did from Danks.”
More like hung over from a grumpy baby and no sleep
I am a little sad about Danks…..because I thought he would have been a good fit IF KW priced him reasonably……he just never did.
New Post: The give and take of young pitching
I get the feeling Cashman might be more concerned with budget than management. Wants to prove that he can GM with the best of them and not just be the guy who hands out checks?
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Pat-
I just don’t agree with that at all. It’s been mentioned before, that the new CBA is enticing the Yankees with some 40M to be under the new threshold of 189M by 2014 for their 40 man roster, which also resets their luxury tax to 17.5% rather than 50% if they go over in 2015. That extra money is what will be available to sign potential 2014 FA’s Cano and Granderson.