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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


A few Thursday night notes and links

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 22, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Just a few notes and links as we move closer to the holiday weekend.

• Brian Cashman has already said that teams have approached him about trading for almost everyone on the roster, and today Ken Rosenthal brought some specifics. Rosenthal wrote that the Indians inquired about Nick Swisher, but it’s hard to see such a trade going anywhere.

• Given the fact they weren’t remotely in the mix for Yu Darvish and seem to be avoiding massive financial commitments, it should come as no surprise that our friend Marc Carig tweeted today that the Yankees chances of getting Yoenis Cespedes are “slim and none.”

• The Red Sox have their new pitching coach, having hired Bob McClure for the job. 

• Looks like another big name is off the market with Carlos Beltran agreeing to a two-year deal with the Cardinals. Seems like he’ll slide into right field while Lance Berkman replaces Albert Pujols at first. The significance for the Yankees is that Boston, Toronto and Tampa Bay were all mentioned as possible destinations for Beltran.

• Remember Mitch Hilligoss? Probably not. He was traded for Greg Golson a few years ago, and he’s since been released by the Rangers. 

• A back-of-the-rotation innings eater came off the market with Jason Marquis signing a one-year deal with the Twins. … A reserve corner infielder also came off the market with Mark DeRosa signing with the Nationals.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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235 Responses to “A few Thursday night notes and links”

  1. Ys Guy December 22nd, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    good to see beltran staying out of the AL. Surprised he signed with an NL team, i think he has alot more confidence in his knee than is warrented, but i wish him well, i like him alot.

  2. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Too bad that we didn’t get Beltran. I had harbored hopes of an offensive upgrade. C’est la vie.

  3. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    Beltran will make less money over the next two years than Soriano will.

  4. Ys Guy December 22nd, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    i always liked beltran. but you couldn’t expect them to bring him in without moving either swisher or montero. otherwise you’re way overpaying for a bench player, be that swisher or beltran.

  5. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    CB,
    We get it. You didn’t like the Soriano signing. I’m not wild about it either, but it probably did not have a significant impact on the choice not to pursue Beltran. Cashman just wasn’t interested in him (much to my chagrin).

  6. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Ys Guy December 22nd, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    i always liked beltran. but you couldn’t expect them to bring him in without moving either swisher or montero. otherwise you’re way overpaying for a bench player, be that swisher or beltran.
    =========

    My hope was to move Swisher for a pitcher.

  7. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    CB

    Since the RS won the WS they seem to think that it’s just going to continue.

    They are going in a direction that we as Yankee fans have seen and it wasn’t good.

    They are trying for guys like Geo and Bailey because of the low salary in order to keep the lux. tax hit low.

    They are also in on some the Yankees are like Kuroda for the same reason. Short term contract.

    My guess is Theo could see what was coming and was glad to get out of there.

    For all the complaints about Lavine I think Luccino is a bigger problem for Boston.

  8. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    That’s a very good move by the Cards….Beltran obviously can’t replace Pujols but signing him at least gets a portion of that production back and does so without getting into a long term deal. Really wish the Yanks had at least considered him at that money……oh well

  9. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Ghost,

    Yes. I don’t like it. And I like it much less now than I even did last winter with the team being more price sensitive.

    The deal has gotten worse because the opportunity cost associated with it has increased do to management philosophy.

    So to me, it’s a different deal than it even was last winter.

    And if it was their plan all along to try to decrease payroll in this fashion – then signing him based on Randy Levine’s recommendation was even more misguided.

    That was also information we didn’t have last winter.

    No I don’t think it directly cost them Beltran – but it’s costing them opportunities to improve the club and doing so in ways that weren’t apparent even last winter. It’s just unfortunate.

  10. kd December 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    great post on the last thread cb, it’s all about risk.

    the risk of benching aj in the offseason is that there’s no proven guy to take his place. that seems to be the yankee way.

    i agree on kuroda, he’s ideal at 1 year, at almost any cost. even at 16 to 18 million, it’s just money that the yankees make in a month due to all of the added japanese interst.

    i gotta hope that there’s a handhsake deal in place and they’re waiting for all of the darvish stuff to be over

  11. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    My take is that Theo screwed things up pretty badly there and wanted out, before it all blew up in his face. I think that it’s going to take the Sox a couple of years to rebuild. That pitching staff of theirs looks pretty hollow to me.

  12. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Cubs are planning a full rebuild according to mlbtr. We haven’t heard any leaks about what Theo would ask fr Garza

  13. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    Ghostwriter

    The real problem the RS have is they don’t have any depth close to the ML to fill the holes.

    The solution in the short term is money which they don’t want to spend much more of because of the lux tax.

    The Yankees seem to be trying to get down to a level to avoid the big tax in 2014 and the RS are going the other way.

  14. MTU December 22nd, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    Blake-

    Too much.

    ;)

  15. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    On the Sox – I think it’s now becoming clear that Larry Lucchino has had a much bigger hand in how the team is run than has ever previously been reported.

    Over and over this narrative was created about the Sox being this “model” franchise and Theo just running this genius front office.

    But if you look at how things have shaken out – going back to the Teixeira negotiations – you can see Lucchino’s fingerprints. And that really came to the fore with the way the new GM was undercut and Valentine hired.

    He’s a core problem for the sox – the kind of problem the yankees have had in the past – and he’s not going away.

    Also – I really don’t know how Fenway sports group cash flow is structured – but man did they ever spend an enormous amount of cash on their soccer team this past year. And I don’t know if the soccer team’s revenues were independently enough to cover that bill.

  16. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    CB,

    Cash did want to spend the money last winter, and he doesn’t want to spend it this winter. If they hadn’t signed Soriano, they would be $12 million. But Cashman would be no more active than he has been this year.

    I wouldn’t read too much into what they’re doing this year. Obviously, they are tightening their belts. Most of us, I think knew that this was coming. The spending was unsustainable, and we have a bumper crop of prospects that is just about ready to be harvested. Still, they made a key decision that should signal to Yankee fans that they remain committed to winning: They extended CC’s contract. No muss, no fuss. They could have let him walk if they were really looking at making Draconian cuts.

    Expect more activity next year to go after a right fielder, or to extend Swisher. And depending on how Hughes, Nova, the B’s perform, they may go after a pitcher (Hamels) next year.

  17. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    I kinda hope the Sox make their system even thinner by trading for Bailey….Beane won’t give him away cheap.

  18. kd December 22nd, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    the red sox either will be forced to overspend, believe their own hype, or suffer the indignity of successive 3rd place finishes

    looks like they won’t overspend, no darvish, no cj wilson

    my gut says that they’re going to believe their own hype. i hope that’s the case, makes it more awesome to be a yankee fan

  19. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    Maine,

    They also have a ton of money tied up in bad contracts (Lackey, possibly Crawford). And who knows which Beckett they’ll get next year. I’ve always considered Beckett to be pretty erratic…

  20. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    Expect more activity next year to go after a right fielder, or to extend Swisher”

    Who? I really dont think they should allow themselves get into a situation where they need to over pay Swisher next winter.v

  21. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    “But Cashman would be no more active than he has been this year.”

    Ghost,

    I understand your argument – I agree with much of it. What you’re saying is perfectly reasonable – and I also concur that this is part of a larger process of getting the payroll down to a more sane level. And that’s good for the team – in the long term.

    Where I do disagree is on the above point. I think if there was more room in the budget Cashman would at least look to sign a pitcher on a one year deal.

    Don’t think he’d want to add a guy on a three year deal. But one year – I think he’d look to do that if he had the latitude.

    We’ll see what happens. Still could take place.

    But on the whole they are well positioned for the next few seasons, especially compared to their chief rivals.

  22. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    I don’t who they’ll get for right field. My point is that I don’t expect them to run just anybody out there. If I had to bet money on it, I think that Cashman brings back Swisher. I think that Cash really likes the guy, and what he brings to the club.

  23. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    I like Swisher too…..but I’d want no part of a new mult-year deal with him….he’s going to want a big deal……this will be his only shot at one

  24. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    CB,

    I’m a little surprised that they didn’t make a push for Kuroda myself. But I’m not shocked by it either. Do the Yankees NEED Kuroda? I don’t think so. They still look to be very tough without him.

    As for Soriano, I still hold out hope that he will do something over the next couple years to justify his contract. (However, I’ve got to think that Cashman must have taken a little nasty plaeasure in his travails last year.)

  25. kd December 22nd, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    i could see a team give swish a large deal, like 5/75.

    i seriously doubt that the yankees go there.

  26. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    Absent a better alternative, I could see going 3 year, $36 (or even 4/48) for Swisher. For more than that, I would let him walk, and if I couldn’t find anybody else, I’d either buy Nunez an outfielder’s glove or promote one of the youngsters.

  27. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Buster Olney
    @Buster_ESPN
    Among the starters that the Marlins are considering: Joe Saunders.

    No no no….you don’t want Joe Saunders…..you want AJ

  28. Mike_Boston December 22nd, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Lucchino defines the word slime.

  29. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    I think it’ll take 4 Years for Swish unless he’s willing to give a discount…..and players never give the Yanks a discount….they actually make them over pay much more often.

  30. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    kd December 22nd, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    i could see a team give swish a large deal, like 5/75.

    i seriously doubt that the yankees go there.
    =======

    It’s certainly possible. I’m willing to believe anything after the deals that Werth and Crawford got last year. I couldn’t see justifiying spending that kind of coin unless he significantly improved his game–he would have to hit at least .285 for me to consider it.

  31. yankfan December 22nd, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    its pretty sad how cheap yanks have come, when they hand out hideous unnecessary contracts to players like soriano

  32. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    You’re right about the discount thing. However, Swisher loves being a Yankee; he might not be hard-nosed about it.

  33. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    The Soriano contract isn’t the problem. ARod’s contract is the problem–it’s about $10 million too much each year.

  34. MaineYankee December 22nd, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    CB

    Also – I really don’t know how Fenway sports group cash flow is structured – but man did they ever spend an enormous amount of cash on their soccer team this past year. And I don’t know if the soccer team’s revenues were independently enough to cover that bill.

    ———————————————————————————————————–

    From what has been said one doesn’t effect the other.

    I think Luccino was the reason Theo walked the first time. I think Henry intervened and smoothed things over for a time.

    I do think one reason Theo went to the Cubs was the chance to make more of the decisions without Luccino being in the way.

  35. EA December 22nd, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    “Mariano Rivera described Manny Banuelos as the best pitching prospect he’s seen in his life.

    But what does Mo know about baseball? Or pitching.”

    And Giambi and Torre said Hughes reminded them of a young Roger Clemens
    Posada said (in 08 or 09) that Eric Hacker had the “best arm in camp” (and he was released a short time later) and Ohlendorf’s stuff was the best that he’s seen among Yankees youngsters.

    Can’t take what these players say seriously. I’m not doubting Banuelos, but players make hyperbolic/nonsensical statements all the time. I believe Torrri Hunter last year said that Nova is going to be “special” after seeing him once.

  36. Yogi Mantle December 22nd, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    I think the Yankees are looking at a convergence of things this year. First, you have some really promising looking prospects that are getting very close to being able to contribute. Montero, Romine, Betances and Banuelos could be the additions the club needs. Noesi seems like he could become a replacement in the rotation.

    Then you have the other options that are out there. Really, this year’s available FA’s with some notable exceptions are not much of an upgrade. CJ Wilson wasn’t even a thought to the Rangers who had plenty of time to look at him up close and personal. Instead they blew a ton of money on a talented but unproven pitcher in Darvish. With no guarantee they will sign him, which would leave them with a big hole in their rotation.

    The trade candidates included some that have talent, but again, when viewing it as a choice between emerging talent that is cost control vs. giving up 4 players of top quality for one, it just seems way too much to pay.

    If there was a real top end pitcher, one that has shown success in the Majors, it would be a different story. Kuroda? Oswalt? Are they a serious upgrade? Are they a better option than trying out the farm talent?

    If the pitching in the minors come up and are decent, even if one is, it will show the hesitancy on making a desperation deal to be correct. Hughes is a question, but he has shown he can pitch. If he gets it going there is an upgrade.

    Too many on here seem to crave a deal or a signing, regardless of looking at it from a cost/value/talent added evaluation.

    If going with an unknown quantity, it seems the smarter way to go is the one that cost less and that has backups behind it. With the young arms the Yankees have in the farm, there is a lot of depth. Trade them away for one pitcher and you hurt the depth while spending more.

    I think if a really good pitcher becomes available Cashman will consider making a move, but it has to be a relatively proven good pitcher who could slide in behind CC. No injury risk type either.

    The Yankee team has a ton of talent on it. The rotation has some questions, but any of the available pitchers this year have just as many questions attached making the upgrade slight if at all.

    Just because you have the resources to spend doesn’t mean you have to spend foolishly or overpay for minimal gains. To look at it another way, would you be willing to bet 100 million dollars that Darvish is going to be an upgrade over Hughes or Nova? And by how many wins, the only real concern for reaching the post season.

    The new CBA, the restrictions and costs and those extra costs going toward helping the competition all point toward making smarter moves or standing pat rather than dealing away the future for little gain. Yeah, it’s fun to get a new shiny toy, but that luster wears off quick if it doesn’t pan out.

  37. Nilsson December 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    If the presence of a healthy and productive Soriano could factor into rethinking Joba’s role back into rotation, heck I’ll forgive Levine.

    Afterall, Cashman is always on the lookout for affordable starting pitching and the primary reason he settled on Chamberlain in pen because he thought he was never the same after the injury in 2008.

    The timing of Joba’s comeback from surgery and Soriano’s presence in the pen couldn’t be more perfectly aligned.

  38. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    It’s not that the Yankees are “cheap.” They’re not.

    It’s that as you are trying to move from a position to financial lunacy to a more rational place, there has to be a progression pathway in place if you are going to continue to make it a goal maximize your chances of winning under some reasonable limits.

    So all of these conversations we’re having are about what that progression pathway should look like and what are the parameters for those reasonable limits.

    The problem with all of this is that ownership went out and immediately shot itself in the chest by signing Alex to that awful deal.

    And if owndership did that while ignoring the recommendations of the baseball operations – then ownership really needs to own up to it and understand that of their own decision making – they have made that progression pathway back to sanity much more complicated – and of much longer duration than it otherwise would have been.

    That’s just the way it is. Hank and Levine signs Alex to that deal – the minute the ink dries its going to take them years longer to get back to fiscal sanity.

    And part of that more complicated progression pathway is providing the baseball operations with more flexibility than they otherwise would have.

    And to Hal’s credit – he did that in a huge way in 2009.

    It just feels that now they are trying to accelerate that progression pathway in ways which are potentially hurting the baseball side of the organization. Or at least they aren’t providing the flexibility needed to address significant issues at hand without it damaging the organizations long term prospects.

  39. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Cano and Granderson can be FAs after the 2013 season
    Swisher needs to have a monster season to be lucky to get locked up long term

  40. Yogi Mantle December 22nd, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    I think it’ll take 4 Years for Swish unless he’s willing to give a discount…..and players never give the Yanks a discount….they actually make them over pay much more often.
    ++++++++++++

    Like Damon did? The Yankees will over pay a bit, but that isn’t quite the way it used to be. The Yankees wanted Damon back, but at their rate. They let him walk.

    Swisher might not give a discount, but if he enjoys playing as a Yankee as much as he says he does, it would come in as market fair. The Yankees will overpay some, but I just don’t see them going way over slot as had been done in the past. I think it depends on the player and how they help put butts in the seats.

  41. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    “If there was a real top end pitcher, one that has shown success in the Majors, it would be a different story. Kuroda? Oswalt? Are they a serious upgrade?”

    This is probably where I disagree with other people.

    Yes. I think Kuroda is a major upgrade. I’ve watched him pitch quite a bit. He’s terrific. He really is. A please to watch.

    Kuroda could be a two to three win upgrade over AJ Burnett next season. That’s a big gain.

    And on top of that – it allows you to keep Noesi as the 6th man while building his innings back in the minors.

    I don’t think people realize how good Kuroda is.

  42. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    Also – I should add – I’m not saying Kuroda is perfect or without risk. His age makes him a risk.

    It’s just that on a one year deal where you aren’t giving up any talent – it can only hurt you so much if he busts.

  43. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    CB
    I Do

  44. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    What I’m saying is that with the lack of outfield options out there I don’t want them to get into a situation where they need to sign Swisher and he has a lot of leverage…..that trade was a steal for Cashman and Swisher has provided excellent value for the Yanks……but I think they should move on after this year……

  45. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    A 92+ fastball and a nasty splitter with a sub 3.0 ERA away from Dodger stadium. Not too shabby.

  46. Yogi Mantle December 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    CB, I don’t say that Kuroda isn’t an upgrade, it is the cost disparity vs. the additional wins potential that Kuroda would bring.

    How much of an upgrade is worth the millions of dollars extra cost?

    You are talking about adding 10-12 million dollars for a two or three additional wins, which the bullpen might already cover, it is harder to justify that amount.

    I’m not saying Kuroda is a bad option, but two or three wins difference for that cost is quite high. Especially when you factor in the penalty the Yankees have to pay for being over the limit of luxury tax, then that cost is quite a bit higher.

    If we are talking eating a good portion of AJ’s contract AND signing Kuroda, then the cost is nearing 18 – 20 million, add in the luxury tax and its 22 million at least for two to three wins extra. Steep price to pay for little gain.

    And on top of all that, AJ is not very good, but he seems to be successful in the post season. I know small sample size, but still, it has to be considered.

  47. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    Either sign Kuroda or work on a deal with Theo for Garza….(id at least like to know what it’d take)….then try like crazy to move AJ.

  48. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    If you can eat half of AJs contact to trade him then it only adds about 4 million to the payroll by signing Kuroda……and by trading AJ his entire salary comes of as it relates to the luxury tax I believe……so in that equation it would be well worth that swap……both on the field and financially.

  49. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    Blake
    For Garza it’ll probably take at least 2, if not 3 of the Yankee top 3prospects

  50. Yogi Mantle December 22nd, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    Blake, Garza would be a nice add, but figure you are talking starting the trade with Montero and one of the “B’s”, plus two more top end prospects.

    I don’t think I would do that deal. Loss of offense and pitching depth of YOUNG cost controlled talent and Garza is a very good but not quite the level that giving up that kind of talent it would take.

    The plus with Kuroda would be the one year deal. But you are looking at a high cost still, and is it worth the differential in wins it would bring?

  51. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    “but two or three wins difference for that cost is quite high. ”

    In general, purchasing one win on the free agent market is worth 5.5M for the Yanks.

    12M for a 2-3 win upgrade would be appropriate for that level of production.

    If you want to account for the revenue tax hits, then it basically makes no sense for the yankees to ever acquire any wins through the free agent route – even CC’s contract wouldn’t make financial sense. Tex’s contract would be extremely poor in returning value.

    But that’s what the tax is designed to do – make it less efficient, even prohibitive to purchase wins through free agency.

    It’s also why there’s such a compelling case to get wins through internally developed players rather than free agency. The financial motivation for the Yanks is enormous.

    All that said – per their usual approach to business – 2-3 wins would be well worth 12M.

  52. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    **top 10 prospects**

  53. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    Nilsson December 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    If the presence of a healthy and productive Soriano could factor into rethinking Joba’s role back into rotation, heck I’ll forgive Levine.

    Afterall, Cashman is always on the lookout for affordable starting pitching and the primary reason he settled on Chamberlain in pen because he thought he was never the same after the injury in 2008.

    The timing of Joba’s comeback from surgery and Soriano’s presence in the pen couldn’t be more perfectly aligned.
    ======

    That is a very interesting proposition. I had given up on Joba starting. However, the surgery, Cashman might consider it.

  54. Yogi Mantle December 22nd, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    I don’t think it works that way, Blake. If you are paying a portion of the player’s salary, it is on your payroll. To eat half of AJ’s contract is 8 million per year. If Kuroda signs for 12 million, that is 18 million in cost to sign him and trade AJ. Plus, you aren’t getting back great prospects for AJ.

    Add in the luxury tax to Kuroda’s signing and it is nearing CC’s cost. Yikes! Kuroda is a good pitcher, but not near CC’s level.

  55. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    For comparison, it would only be reasonable to assume that Garca will be a 2-3 win upgrade over Burnett also.

    Can’t expect more than that from Garza.

    Now compared to Kuroda – Garca would have less uncertainty over the estimate of what he’ll return. That is with Garza you can feel more confident that you’ll get that 2-3 win boost – but you still can’t expect much more on the upside.

    And of course you’ll have Garca one additional year of control (think he’s got two years until free agency).

    But Garca would be money + huge talent for a gain of 2-3 wins this season.

    This is why I think Kuroda is such a compelling get.

  56. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Edwin Jackson and John Danks have comparable numbers over the last three years, which is why Mike Axisa of the River Ave Blues blog thinks Scott Boras (agent to both Jackson and Danks) will use Danks’ recent extension with the White Sox as a model for Jackson in free agency.  “Now I know hearing five years and $65M+ for Jackson is a little wacky, just because he [doesn't] come off as the type of pitcher deserving of that kind of commitment…but I refuse to bet against Boras,” Axisa writes.

  57. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Garza isn’t a #1 and he’s getting fairly expensive in arbitration and only has 2 years of control left as opposed to 5 for Latos and 4 for Gonzalez…..he’s a good pitcher but I can’t see Theo being able to demand Montero and Betances for him for example…..he’s just not that type of pitcher. Now he may ask that…..but that’s not where his market value should be…..it should be less than both the Latos and Gio trades.

  58. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    Yogi,

    I’m looking at it from where the payroll is right now. If you traded AJ and ate 16 million of his total salary then you subtract 8 million dollars from where you are now payroll wise…..you have to pay AJ regardless so I’d prefer to pay him less…….subtract 8 million from where you are now and then add 12 for Kuroda and you’ve only added 4 million to your current payroll and you’ve made the rotation better.

    You can think of it like you’re spending 20 million on one rotation spot……but that’s really not the case because you already have bought AJ 3 years ago….you have to pay him anyway….this way you just don’t have to pay him as much

  59. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    Blake
    Think Betances, Numez, Romine + one more

  60. Nilsson December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    That is a very interesting proposition. I had given up on Joba starting. However, the surgery, Cashman might consider it.

    ————————————————————–

    Cashman strikes me as a lateral thinker. I’m sure it’s on his mind, especially considering the success rate of TJS and its ramifications. Plus, I’m 100% positive that Prufrock has already written him about it, lol.

  61. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    trader,

    I think that’s closer…..but that’s still too much IMO. That’s arguably more than the Nats just gave up for Gio…..GM’s can place whatever price they want on their guys but that’s more than I”d pay.

  62. Tar December 22nd, 2011 at 11:48 pm

    AJ is not going anywhere. Everybody after CC has question marks associated with them. At the least he is a veteran that gives them depth as a starter or even as a long man. Even if you sign a Kuroda you are still left with too many questions marks to be paying for AJ to be pitching for someone else.

    The amount of money the Yankees would eat, and the return he would bring, makes it very unlikely that he will be moved.

  63. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    Tar,

    AJ is the biggest question mark of all….I know we don’t agree on this though. Nice game last night huh :)

  64. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    Tar
    Agree. AJ will be on the team at least until midseason, if not longer.

  65. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 11:52 pm

    i’m out guys. good stuff tonight.

  66. Tar December 22nd, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    Blake

    I was busy and had DVR failure!! :mad: I hate when that happens.

    On AJ we disagree. At this point you have to roll the dice with him. “Maybe” at the deadline if he pitches decently and one of the kids makes him expendable. Otherwise he’s here for the full “Igawa” :D :

  67. Yankee Trader December 22nd, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    Good night . I’m out too

  68. Yogi Mantle December 23rd, 2011 at 12:03 am

    Blake, of the players that Theo has, Garza isn’t the top one to have to trade. That brings his value up in terms of prospects. Paying another club 8 million (and from the lack of interest so far I think that cost would go up more to trade him) isn’t that easy to sell to Hal.

    It’s not that I would cry if the Yankees were sign Kuroda, but Nova was doing really well till he got hurt. Hughes is a question mark, but he has the talent. AJ is the back end of the rotation, anything he does on the positive side is a plus at this point.

    I think the Yankees seem willing to risk this year somewhat, in an effort to build for a number of years with cost controlled pitching moving up. It will help with the bottom line.

    It just seems like a calculated risk for higher potential longer term gain. Plus, I think a lot of Yankee fans would enjoy watching a young farm hand helping out the club and growing to the job. Nova was a joy to watch last season. Montero was a blast to see, even though it was limited. That excitement factor does play into some of the calculations as well.

    Who knows, AJ might actually put together a great season (for him anyway). It could happen with him in the trailing portion of the rotation, facing the number 4 or 5 pitchers.

    Some may be wishful/ hopeful thinking on the Yankees part, but costs will be playing a role till the Yankees get under that luxury tax threshold. They’ve been working at it for a while now, and it is getting close to being within reach.

    If something changes where a top level pitcher becomes available, they might rethink it a little, but it will take someone really special to do that.

  69. Yogi Mantle December 23rd, 2011 at 12:06 am

    Good night all.

    This was a good discussion of different views. Very enjoyable.

  70. yankfan December 23rd, 2011 at 12:07 am

    the yankees are in denial and not realizing the new reality

    there is no more top tier SPs that you can get for a steal via trade….it will take 3-5 prospects, thats the norm now, see haren, gio, etc

    if cashman wants to hoard the prospects, thats fine. but NYY isnt willing to spend cash on FAs.

    so Im not sure how they expect to get that #2 starter

  71. LGY December 23rd, 2011 at 12:12 am

    2/26 for Beltran?

    Great move by the Red Birds.

  72. LGY December 23rd, 2011 at 12:15 am

    In many ways the Soriano deal is actually worse than the AJ signing.

  73. Nick in SF December 23rd, 2011 at 12:24 am

    I can’t believe they made me watch “Love Actually”.

    The horror!

    AJ is like one of the plotlines that doesn’t work out.

    Maybe things will get better offscreen, in our imaginations.

  74. Benny Blanco December 23rd, 2011 at 12:32 am

    wow!!! Gio got traded to the nats???? How are those prospects compared to what billy bean asked from the yanks?

  75. Carlos December 23rd, 2011 at 12:35 am

    Benny Blanco December 23rd, 2011 at 12:32 am

    wow!!! Gio got traded to the nats???? How are those prospects compared to what billy bean asked from the yanks?

    Nats gave up a lot.

  76. Spudz December 23rd, 2011 at 12:43 am

    Nats gave up alot but didn’t have to part with 2 of their top 3 prospects. If Yankees could of traded the same prospect #’s I believe they would of went for Gio. It is just a shame that every other GM in MLB covets our top 3 :) (For the record I am glad we kept our guys)

  77. 4 NYY December 23rd, 2011 at 2:12 am

    We’ve got our own Gio just a round the corner in AAA.

    I don’t consider Beltran a loss for us at all. He may do well in NL central as it’s been the about the weakest for a while. That’s if he can stay on the field. Those PED breakdowns are a bear.

  78. 4 NYY December 23rd, 2011 at 2:12 am

    Around

  79. bardos December 23rd, 2011 at 5:21 am

    I get the feeling that the Nats, after picking high in the draft for years, have a solid minor league system and that we can’t really compare their numbers to the Yankees numbers.

  80. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 5:27 am

    Hughes does a phone interview to update his workout sessions at API in California. As usual, made no excuses for last year. Unsure of the cause for the shoulder injury or lack of velocity.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....um=twitter

  81. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 6:34 am

    GB-

    Thanks for the link on Hughes.

  82. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 6:46 am

    CB -

    Seems to me that Cashman is looking for exactly what you said – a pitcher on a one-year contract.

    We do not know what the parameters are for Kuroda, whether he is merely entertaining the Yankees offers and offers from other teams, just to see what’s out there for him, whether he is trying to convince himself he would be okay coming to the east coast, when in the past, he’s been clear he wants to stay west, whether he seriously would prefer going back to Japan. We do not know these things.

    If Kuroda is not signed, it does not mean the Yankees didn’t try to do what they could (within their own parameters) to try and entice him.

    The likelihood of getting a one-year contract pitcher increases the closer we get to spring training, when unsigned players are more apt to go for something short-term because it’s evident nothing better is coming along. And I think they are more apt to sign with a team with a good shot at winning because it’ll be better for them the following season if they’ve helped in any way.

    I also agree with Ghostwriter that at some point, the stable of arms they’ve accumulated may be able to contribute at a level that is commensurate with the type of starter who is available for a one-year contract.

    Pitchers with real injury risk (Oswalt), specifically balky backs, need not apply, IMO.

    I also have serious questions about putting AJ in the bullpen. Obviously, if he goes a few starts and shows he’s got nothing, that’s one thing. But if they aren’t successful in trading him, then he’s got a starting job in April. And it’ll be just like AJ to have a good spring, going into the end of May, and then start showing the cracks. Anyway, the reason I don’t think AJ starts in the pen has to do with morale. Look, AJ is theirs. He is a starter – never shown that what he can do can translate to bullpen work, so you’re talking abut putting him in the bullpen to come in in mop-up duty. You need to consider what this does to your team. You really do.

    Again, if he falters AND the team is in a position where they are not winning, then you can do whatever you want with him. But I think you need to be very careful about this situation. The Yankees have worked hard to build a good “ambiance” in that clubhouse.

  83. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 6:47 am

    For those of you who are interested in how are farm system is ranked.

    Peliere, BA, Keith Law, and BP all rank us in the top 5.

    A few a little higher.

    I think that could go up this season.

    We’ll be right near the top if Williams and/or Sanchez put together big seasons.

    These are good times to be a Yankee fan.

    :)

  84. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 6:48 am

    Good Morning, MTU.

  85. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 6:49 am

    MTU -

    I agree – good times, indeed. This is what they have been working on, while still fielding a winning team, for the last several years. The groundwork, the boring stuff, that goes on under the radar.

  86. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 6:51 am

    edit: “our” not “are”.

    Hey. it’s early. give me a break.

    :)

  87. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 6:52 am

    MTU -

    I didn’t even notice!

  88. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 6:54 am

    VN-

    I hope the Yankees take a balanced approach.

    Promote from within first.

    Strategic acquisitions second.

    That farm system is going to continue to pay dividends. It is something to be proud of.

  89. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 6:55 am

    VN-

    Don’t you sleep ?

    :)

  90. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 6:56 am

    I hope those reports concerning the Yankees chances of getting Cepedes are wrong. I believe he could be a huge impact player in the near future, and our future RF.

    I well understand the teams position on getting costs down, but, at what point do you let the product on the field diminish at the cost of savings. Winning teams make much more of a profit than losers, and a New York Yankees team winning WS will put more butts in the seats, and sell more Yankees team related product, more than making up for any additional costs to remain the top dog.

  91. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 6:57 am

    MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 6:34 am
    GB-

    Thanks for the link on Hughes.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    any time, MTU. In retrospect, I’m sure Cashman and Girardi were probably wishing they had L;d Hughes out of ST instead of him struggling to get things straightened out in NY. Somewhay of a Wang repeat in that respect. I don’t when the issue started develpoing with him, but, maybe around the halfway point in 2010? Just a guess, but, from that point on, he wasn’t the same pitcher. We’ll see if this workout routine does the trick. If it does, I’d bet on it becoming part of his yearly conditioning. A return to the first half of 2010 would fix a lot of problems in the rotation. As for Nova, I’d expect a continuation of his progress, though winning 80% of his decisions isn’t likely every year….or even very often.

  92. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 7:00 am

    MTU -

    I am up early. I like my quiet mornings before the day begins.

  93. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Morning Al.

    You raise a good point about the balance between spending and saving.

    I leave that one for the experts.

    As far as Cespedes, I don’t hink we’re gettin’ him. That’s what the latest rumors point to.
    I guess the Yanks feel that he is also too expensive for the the risk involved.

    It is an area of obvious need though and he might have been an alternative to Swisher or GGBG.

    Perhaps we at least get Soler ?

  94. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:01 am

    After watching Colon pitch last season, given he’d pitched quite a bit in winter ball, I thought he deserved another shot. He would be cheap, and could pay dividends, being able to go deeper into the season this year.

  95. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:02 am

    NYYs might get Cespedes, but, my money is on them getting Soler either first or instead.

  96. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:03 am

    good morning guys :)

  97. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:03 am

    MTU -

    Good morning. This is what happens when you get 3 hours of sleep, too much time to think of things you have no control over. :)

  98. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 7:04 am

    GB7 -

    Good article. Seems like “out of shape” didn’t necessarily mean “fat,” but underconditioned in Phil Hughes’ case.

    Perhaps he felt he needed to take it easy after 2010? Didn’t want to push it? Anyway, he found out something important about himself and how he needs to continue to condition himself during the off-season. If he comes back strong, and is even close to his early 2010 self, the Yankees and Hughes will be in good shape (pun not intended, but on second thought, it works!).

  99. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:06 am

    GB7 -

    You may be right, but, my point is Cepedes is ML ready, and by all reports I’ve read Soler is a good player, but not in the same league as Cepedes, and about 3 years away from ML ready. I think we already have better OF prospects than Soler in our farm system.

  100. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:07 am

    GB-

    I think Hughes got Verducci’ed last year.

    My own theory on it was that he had a sever tendonitis of the shoulder as a result of it. It happens.

    Gomez also sticks by his claim that Hughes had a cyst removed from the same general area.

    I corresponded with him and I believe him.

    At any rate, The API thing should help.

    I think he needs a good off-speed pitch to go with that great FB.

    Hoping he picks up Mr. Splitty.

    It’s an easy pitch to learn and as we have seen very effective.

    I voice my belief that Hughes is an excellent candidate for it.

    He has the right arm action and large enough hands to easily effect that grip.

    JMO.

  101. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:07 am

    upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:03 am
    good morning guys

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Morning, Kate. ope all is well with you and your family a couple of days before disaster strikes. Seems like disaster always hit sometime on Christmas when family gets together. Somebody gets into an argument just about dinnertime. Usually, Uncle Joe and Grandpa Charlie would start it. Never seemed to end well.

  102. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:09 am

    Man i just can’t type.

    That’s “severe” not “sever”. No one is amputating Hughes arm at this point.

    Duh.

  103. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:10 am

    Morning Kate.

    VN-

    I like the quiet of the morning too.

  104. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:11 am

    MTU -

    Where did you find a good frame for that size picture?

  105. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:11 am

    GB7 -

    A good reason be spend Christmas alone. :)

  106. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:13 am

    Al-

    I usually can find one at a crafts store like “Michaels” for about 20 bucks.

    P.S. I have no affiliation with the name.

    :)

  107. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:16 am

    Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 7:04 am
    GB7 -

    Good article. Seems like “out of shape” didn’t necessarily mean “fat,” but underconditioned in Phil Hughes’ case.

    Perhaps he felt he needed to take it easy after 2010? Didn’t want to push it? Anyway, he found out something important about himself and how he needs to continue to condition himself during the off-season. If he comes back strong, and is even close to his early 2010 self, the Yankees and Hughes will be in good shape (pun not intended, but on second thought, it works!).

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Maybe this struggle will have a positive affect on Hughes. He may realize that “it’s a process” from here on out. He’ never really struggled in his career because everything seemed so easy for him. It’s not that way. You gotta work. Even in the good old days, players had off season jobs and many were country boys that did farm work or like Mantle, worked in the mines. I’m anxious to see how he starts the season. Perhaps it will have an affect on Chamberlain, too. I’m still of the belief that Chamberlain was pulled from the rotation because the doctors told Cashman and the Yanks that Chamberlain’s arm was a ticking time bob and it was just a matter of time. NYYs had no real replacement and they wanted to milk it for as long as possible. Again, just a guess, because it really made no sense otherwise.

  108. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:16 am

    We used to go to CA. for Xmas to visit with Mrs. MTU’s Family.

    Instead of it being a joyous occasion it usually broke bad and ended up in a fight.

    We no longer go because of it. Real shame. People can’t even get along at Xmas sometimes.

    What a crock.

    :(

  109. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:18 am

    GB-

    Interesting theory on JC’s arm.

    Perhaps he is given another shot now that he has been TJ’ed ?

    The BP is flush. They can spare him.

  110. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:20 am

    Maybe you wouldn’t have been as likely to be starting fights if Mrs MTU had slapped you around on a daily basis, whether you needed it or not.

  111. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:23 am

    GB-

    Sorry Pal but you got that one wrong.

    It was her and sixty five Sisters who were always getting into it.

    Too many Cats in too small of a room.

    I was just an unhappy “observer”. Making a quick getaway was a specialty.

    ;)

  112. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:23 am

    MTU, it’s just a guess, but, certainly no worse of a reason than anyone else has had. Chamberlain and Hughes are big guys, and, weight may always be an issue. Clemens was another that found out that year round workouts was the only way he could control his weight….regardless of the alleged steroid issues.

  113. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:24 am

    Best way for a joyful family get together, check all weapons at the door, either drink too much, or not at all.

  114. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:25 am

    MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:23 am
    GB-

    Sorry Pal but you got that one wrong.

    It was her and sixty five Sisters who were always getting into it.

    Too many Cats in too small of a room.

    I was just an unhappy “observer”. Making a quick getaway was a specialty.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I still think she should have slapped you around just because.

  115. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:26 am

    Sixty five sisters? Wow, there must have been a long line at the bathroom, no wonder!

  116. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:26 am

    It is lightly snowing here, so it looks like a white Christmas after all.
    Note to Big Al- after all the snow we got last year we finally purchased a snow blower…which has been used exactly one time!

  117. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:27 am

    I always preferred the family get togethers took place at each individual family home and left me alone. They could get together on conference calls.

  118. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:28 am

    GB-

    That’s why people who give up on 24 and 25 year old Pitchers are foolish.

    Sometimes it takes a little while to figure it out and put it all together.

    Not every Pitcher is a Mozart.

    That has been difficult in Yankeeland where the mandate is to win it all every year.

    Developing Pitchers takes time.

  119. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:28 am

    Kate, you should have bought a jet ski instead

  120. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:29 am

    On a different note, I had to smile when learning that Bonds got probation, all this after the government spend many millions of our money on getting Bonds, all for 2 years probation, what a waste of time and money.

  121. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:30 am

    GB-

    Irish families. Sheesh.

    If they could just sell their tempers they be walking Millionaires.

    :)

  122. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2011 at 7:31 am

    Hughes and Noesi are key. Somewhere near 28 wins between them is very acceptable. Freddy Garcia with the same as last year with C.C. and Nova at or near 2011 numbers and the remaining wins coming from the bullpen as pitchers of record.

  123. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:32 am

    Kate -

    Good morning. Fear not, your snow blower will not go to wate this year, you’ll be glad you got it.

    Our temps here have been near 70, so no white Christmas for us. Maybe MTU will see snow out his way, but not here.

  124. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:32 am

    MTU, I’ve seen a lot of pitchers of great promise who took until the mid twenties to finally connect. Not everyone is Bob Feller or Dwight Gooden. NYYs have given up on a lot of young players, usually about a year too soon. I’m just guessing on this stuff, but, would hate likr Hell to see them go somewhere else to win 20 plus games a year.

  125. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:32 am

    108-

    I notice you left out AJ.

    ;)

  126. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:33 am

    MTU -

    Be careful, those Irish folks never forget or forgive.

  127. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:34 am

    GB-

    Same here but the Yankees sometimes seem to be in hurry.

    “No wine before it’s time”.

    ;)

  128. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:35 am

    Unless there’s an injury or a complete collapse, I don’t think you’ll see Noesi in pinstripes or the rotation this year. Next year (2013), yes.

  129. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:36 am

    MTU -

    Anything AJ gives us is a plus, and not to be counted on. Heck, if AJ gave us 12 wins out of the 5 slot, I’d be happy.

  130. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:36 am

    MTU
    Do you know what Irish Alzheimers is? You forget everything but your grudges ;)

  131. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:36 am

    MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:34 am
    GB-

    Same here but the Yankees sometimes seem to be in hurry.

    “No wine before it’s time”.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    On here, the motto is “Any time is the time to Whine”.

  132. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:36 am

    Al-

    It’s the flying objects that scare me most.

    I should have practiced those “air raid” drills better as a kid.

    :)

  133. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:37 am

    GB7 -

    I see Noesi getting 5-10 starts this year.

  134. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:38 am

    Kate-

    :) :) :)

    Good one.

  135. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:40 am

    MTU -

    As my good Irish friend taught me, never sit with your back to the door, and always have a plan to make a quick exit. He works on the docks, so that might have something to do with his way of thinking.

  136. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:40 am

    Al-

    I think AJ is gonna surprise us and be the staff leader.

    I have also been known to tell a fib or two.

    And to be unrepentent dreamer.

    :)

  137. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Noesi may get them, but, it won’t be by design, AL. They want him starting in AAA to be ready for that emergency and for 2013.

  138. tomingeorgia December 23rd, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Kate, Al, MTU, GB7 etal,
    Nor going to be around much for a couple of days, so let me say to you all, have the Merriest of Christmases, and a Blessed New Year. As for me, I’d like a Cuban for Christmas.

  139. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Al-

    Sounds like a plan.

    Especially under the circumstances.

    ;)

  140. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:44 am

    GB-

    Or like Maddon. I want some cheese to go with my whine.

    Or else I’ll stamp my feet and just turn blue.

    :)

  141. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Edit; “stomp” not “stamp”. Postage is too high.

    :)

  142. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:45 am

    GB7 -

    I agree, I just don’t see getting a full season out of Garcia, and there are enough question marks in the rotator, as it now stands, that he may have a bigger roll than coming out of ST would suggest. I think Noesi as an even bigger upside than Nova, and I like Nova quite a bit.

  143. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:45 am

    Tom,

    Thanks for the well wishes. Hope you and family have a great holiday season this year and enjoy the time away. The only thing I want for Christmas is Santa’s list of bad girls.

  144. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:46 am

    Tom-

    Happy Holidays to you as well.

    All the best.

  145. Tom in N.J. December 23rd, 2011 at 7:46 am

    Snowing in Onondaga county.

    Hello all.

  146. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:46 am

    Tom -

    Smoking is not good for you, as good as those Cubans are, lol.

    Mery Christmas to you and your family as well. Have a healthy and Happy New Year.

  147. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Tom in NJ-

    Where ?

    :)

  148. tomingeorgia December 23rd, 2011 at 7:48 am

    My ex’s family was Irish/Hungarian mix, with some Staten Island Italian thrown in. Harp’s, Bull’s Blood and Soave present an explosion waiting to happen. I just stuck to my Early Times.

  149. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah/Happy Holidays to all.

  150. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Tom -

    Were is that county?

  151. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:49 am

    Tom in NJ you need to change to Tom in CNY

  152. pkyankfan69 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:50 am

    Were the Cardinals a better team last year with Pujols

    OR

    Are they a better team now with no Pujols but adding Beltran and Wainwright

    ???

  153. Ys Guy December 23rd, 2011 at 7:50 am

    onondaga, that’s just south of waziristan isn’t it? :)

  154. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Kate-

    Just stay clear of wherever Tom in NJ is.

    Happy Holidays to you and you’re loved ones.

    Yes. That especially includes the 2nd cuttest dog in the World.

    ;)

  155. Tom in N.J. December 23rd, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Big Al, Syracuse.

    Kate, I know.

  156. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Morning NJ Tom.

    Hope all is well with you and family this holiday season?

    Are you guys going to do your annual outdoor family activities? Going out and trying to find Jimmy hoffa at Meadowlands?

  157. tomingeorgia December 23rd, 2011 at 7:52 am

    It ALWAYS snows in Syracuse.

  158. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Tom-

    Syracuse ?

    Oh. You mean where the Greeks fought so many battles.

    Now I know.

    Happy Holidays. Enjoy the Farm.

    :)

  159. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:54 am

    C’mon MTU you know I have the cutest dog, who is the happiest dog as well, now that my son is home from college.

  160. tomingeorgia December 23rd, 2011 at 7:57 am

    MTU,
    That’s where Tom in NJ (classic mislabeling) says he is now. White Christmas? He’ll have a White Memorial Day! That’s why I’m tomingeorgia.

  161. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Kate-

    Whatever you say but you never really produced the proof.

    (just kidding)

    Have a great holiday with your Family. Human and otherwise.

    Hope all your dreams come true.

    :)

  162. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 7:57 am

    upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:48 am
    Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukah/Happy Holidays to all.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Kate, same well wishes for you and family.

    What the difference betwen Chanukah and Hanukah? The rich people can afford to spend money on the extra letter for Chanukah?

    Seriously, is it just different ways of spelling depending on family roots?

  163. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 7:59 am

    absolutely no idea on that one GB

  164. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Tom (Georgia)-

    Sounds peachy keen to me.

    I don’t like cold weather anymore.

    In fact it’s a little too cold around here right now for my liking.

  165. tomingeorgia December 23rd, 2011 at 8:01 am

    MTU,
    74 degrees here today, 60s well into next week.

  166. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 8:01 am

    Mornin’ peeps.

    Am I right in thinking that it was three years ago this morning when we started hearing rumblings about Mark Teixeira becoming a Yankee? For some reason, 12/23 sticks out in my mind.

    If so, happy anniversary Tex.

  167. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 8:03 am

    For those that get YES, tomorrow at 6 PM, they have Paul O’Neill, Bernie Williams and Reggie Jackson from the Yogi Berra Museum discussing the Yankee outfielders of the past. Should be interesting if Yogi’s involved. He’s seen and played with most of the best of them.

  168. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Let’s heat things up a bit around here with some pics of “The Valley of Fire”.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/ValleyOfFire02?authkey=Gv1sRgCN-4nZ_bv6Hccw#

    Enjoy.

  169. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Tom-

    That would be more to my liking.

    45 today.

    :(

  170. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 8:06 am

    It was right before Christmas DF

    Thanks GB. YES has had a lot of good programming lately. I really enjoy Yankee Baseball Daily and the Access shows.

  171. pat December 23rd, 2011 at 8:08 am

    What a group of Scrooges! :wink:

    Call me crazy but…..I miss the holiday fights. We used to be 2 dozen plus for Christmas but families are so spread out now. Hmmm. Just writing it made me think maybe they moved away to avoid holiday fights and just said it was work related.

    Anyway…….We need a Yankee distraction. Too many Groundhog Days this off season. The trade AJ/trade Swisher/Alex’s contract sucks/Montero needs to catch/Yankees are on a budget angle have been way overcommented on.

  172. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 8:09 am

    tomingeorgia December 23rd, 2011 at 8:01 am
    MTU,
    74 degrees here today, 60s well into next week.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I’m missing my daily Fla 80′s. 36 here in upstate NY, only one week left though.

  173. Tom in N.J. December 23rd, 2011 at 8:10 am

    “Seriously, is it just different ways of spelling depending on family roots?”

    Linguistics. The Throaty sound, like you’re getting ready to spit, that is in Hebrew has no English equivalent. So it’s a matter of choice really.

  174. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 8:12 am

    LOL Pat. We spend Thanksgiving w/ my family and Christmas w/ my husband’s. We don’t have family fights tho, everyone gets along fairly well.

    And you are right about the Groundhog Day posts ;)

  175. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:12 am

    gary-

    Can’t say I blame you.

    That sucks.

    It is good for chillin’ beer though.

    ;)

  176. Joe from Long Island December 23rd, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Busy day today, but I just wanted to check in and wish everyone a good day and a happy Christmas and Holiday season.

  177. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Same to you Joe.

    All the best.

    :)

  178. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukkah to all!

    pat –

    I miss the holiday “noise,” too. It used to be heaven with lots of small children running around, and if not arguments, then lots of trying to talk over each other.

    Much smaller gatherings now. Still nice, but not as chaotic, somehow it’s the chaos that has more charm in the rearview mirror!

  179. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 8:18 am

    upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 8:06 am
    It was right before Christmas DF

    Thanks GB. YES has had a lot of good programming lately. I really enjoy Yankee Baseball Daily and the Access shows.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, Lorenz, Curry and Willie make a great team for that format, though I could do without Sherman’s and Feinand’s input. Still, it’s a great show.

  180. LGY December 23rd, 2011 at 8:19 am

    KURODA’S favorite movie, happens to be, Groundhog Day.

  181. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:19 am

    by Gen on Dec.23, 2011 @ 7:54 am, under NPB

    Sports Hochi is reporting that the Softbank Hawks are interested in Kei Igawa. Igawa is still hoping to continue his playing career in the US and is also being monitored by the Rakuten Eagles and Orix Buffaloes.

    Sponichi reports that the Boston Red Sox are going hard after Hiroki Kuroda. Sponichi also mentions that the Red Sox maybe to tossing around a one-year deal worth around US$13M.

    Sponichi makes note of an ESPN Insider article that asked ten MLB evaluators to compare Yu Darvish to Ricky Nolasco, Ian Kennedy, Matt Garza, Zack Greinke and Justin Verlander. Verlander beat Darvish out, 10-0 while Darvish was tied 5-5 with Greinke. He did beat out Kennedy (7-3) and Nolasco (10-0).

  182. Oscar Madison December 23rd, 2011 at 8:21 am

    $ 13.9M lowest since 2003.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....-luxurytax

  183. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:21 am

    To the morning crew and everyone who comes aboard later-

    Wishing you all a very Happy and Healthy Holiday Season and New Year.

  184. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 8:22 am

    Tom in N.J. December 23rd, 2011 at 8:10 am
    “Seriously, is it just different ways of spelling depending on family roots?”

    Linguistics. The Throaty sound, like you’re getting ready to spit, that is in Hebrew has no English equivalent. So it’s a matter of choice really.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Thanks, Tom. That might explain my grandfather, then. I always thought he was just some nasty old coot looking for a spitoon.

    he was really a great old guy….so just kidding Grandpa.

  185. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 8:22 am

    LGY
    had to work him in, didn’t you?

  186. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:22 am

    YT-

    Bet Darvish beat out Bob Feller 10 zip too.

    :)

  187. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 8:23 am

    Morning everyone….merry Christmas eve eve.

    Dice K was compared to Pedro Martinez by evaluators

  188. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:23 am

    13.9M
    The Yankees were averaging 27.5M in luxury taxes since 2004 until the new figure above.

    Red Sox got hit with 3.4M

  189. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:26 am

    YT-

    Health, Happines, and Prosperity to you and yours in the coming year.

    (And a kick a*s Yankee team too).

    :)

  190. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 8:27 am

    I think I’ll give it at least one full season before comparing Darvish to any established ML pitcher. Right now all he is is a great prospect, yet to compete at the ML level. My feeling is he’ll do well, but what he does pitching against the top teams the second or third time around will tell us more.

  191. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:28 am

    Blake-

    Hope you got some rest.

    We crapped out on Danks.

    And you crapped out on Beltran.

    Anyway, Happy Holidays to you and those you Love.

  192. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Posted the Darvish report to stimulate a little humor.

    Let him be like Ricky Nolasco when he faces the Yankees.

  193. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:31 am

    GB7

    I guess I will need to grease the runners for the sled.

    No brown Christmas for me. :(

    Are you spending Christmas with the twins?

  194. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Al-

    Darvish is the 2nd coming. C’Mon Man.

    Get with the program !

  195. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:33 am

    Maine-

    Merry Xmas.

    All the best to the Maine Family.

    You’re the Maine Man !

    :)

  196. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:34 am

    MTU-

    It would be best for Blake not to overtly root for any more players he wishes to be Yankees. Then maybe one of them will come true. :)

  197. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:34 am

    kate

    I hope your snow blower gets rusty from non use.

  198. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:34 am

    YT-

    I share some of the responsibilty.

    :(

  199. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 8:36 am

    MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:31 am
    GB7

    I guess I will need to grease the runners for the sled.

    No brown Christmas for me.

    Are you spending Christmas with the twins?

    ————————————————————————————————————————

    will you be taking Mrs Claus moose hunting on Christmas Day? Hope your snow is just for fun and not a looming disaster, Maine.

    Now, won’t be with the Twins. Was never that fond of Gardenhire, though his wife is a cutie.

    Actually all of the kids and familes will be out of town this weekend.

    Just me and “Killer”….and his dates.

  200. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:36 am

    MYU

    Thanks.

    I hope you have a good day also.

    Just don’t spend the whole day under the mistletoe. :D :

  201. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Maine-

    Sounds like your plow won’t much use this season either.

    No need to even fire up the truck.

    :)

  202. pat December 23rd, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Villa

    Chaos is underrated.

    I miss having little ones in the house at Christmas. Not enough to have another one though.

  203. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:37 am

    edit: won’t get. sorry.

  204. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Trader,

    That’s my thinking as well :)

    MTU.

    Apparently I’m somewhat of a jinx…..hope you’re well

  205. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:41 am

    GB7

    Actually all of the kids and familes will be out of town this weekend.

    ——————————————————————

    That should tell you something. :lol:

    It takes more snow than this to be a disaster.

    It would need to be more than 2ft to be considered an inconvience.

  206. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Standing Rib roast $55, Turkey $25 hope the company is happy :-)

  207. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Beltran got a pretty good deal @ 2/26M. I think the Blue Jays might have offered more, but he didn’t want to play on turf and really wanted to be in NL with the Cardinals.

    Danks was overpaid, and the White Sox don’t seem to have a clue as to what the plan is for next season. The worst trade so far this offseason was giving up their closer with 30 saves, strikeout pitcher Sergio Santos to the Blue Jays for a low minor leaguer.

  208. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Blake-

    You may be a jinx but at least you are sane.

    Look at it this way.

    You could be like me.

    A jinx and totally nuts.

    You’re ahead of the game.

    ;)

  209. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 8:43 am

    People went nuts over Xmas trees this year. I visited HD and Lowe’s expecting to get the close to Xmas deal. Everyone was sold out, associates said people just came in this year and bought everything insite. I also suspect that stores cut their inventory also.

  210. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:46 am

    YT-

    I don’t think Danks was overpaid.

    Actually, I think KW got the better of that deal.

    If he has the kind of season he is capable of he would have gotten more as a FA IMO.

    Hey, who really cares though he’s yesterday’s news now.

    We’re on to bigger and better things.

    ;)

  211. tomingeorgia December 23rd, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Gary,
    If you were looking for a live-cut tree like a Fraiser fir, their were a lot fewer of them available due to droughts in the Southern mountains where most of them are grown.

  212. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Gary-

    If we are talkin’ Xmas trees I can guarantee you they “cut” their inventory.

    You shoulda’ come out here and cut your own.

    We’ve got plenty.

    :)

  213. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 8:43 am
    People went nuts over Xmas trees this year. I visited HD and Lowe’s expecting to get the close to Xmas deal. Everyone was sold out, associates said people just came in this year and bought everything insite. I also suspect that stores cut their inventory also.

    ———————————————————–

    Just grab your axe and head out. :D :

  214. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Gary-

    and if you happen to need any sand for your beaches we’ve got plenty of that too !

  215. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Just grab your axe and head out.
    ————————————
    Oh Maine I wish you hadn’t said that.
    How I have visions of Jack Nicholson in the Shining-Here’s Johnny! :(

  216. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 8:54 am

    After looking at the new contract Danks got, next years class of FA’s must to drooling. If the Phillies don’t extend Hamels, he’ll get $22 – $24 M as an FA next year. Hope the Phillies get cheap and don’t extend him.

  217. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:54 am

    MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:49 am
    Gary-

    and if you happen to need any sand for your beaches we’ve got plenty of that too !

    ——————————————————————-

    And if anyone needs fertilizer GB7 can provide that.

  218. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 8:55 am

    I disagree that Danks was overpaid……if he has a strong 2012 he may have left 30-40 million bucks on the table. I think both the ChiSox and Cards got very food deals on both of those signings

    MTU,

    Should I trumpet keeping AJ now?

  219. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 8:55 am

    MTU -

    You getting any part of that big snow storm out your way?

  220. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Wilson got offered 98 million dollars are a 31 year old with a 2 year track record……

  221. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 8:53 am
    Just grab your axe and head out.
    ————————————
    Oh Maine I wish you hadn’t said that.
    How I have visions of Jack Nicholson in the Shining-Here’s Johnny!

    ——————————————————————-

    I’ve never watched that one.

    Not a big Stephen King fan even though he’s from here.

    The only one I liked was Shawshank Redemption.

  222. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Blake
    reverse jinx? :)

  223. MaineYankee December 23rd, 2011 at 9:00 am

    I guess my wife is dragging me Moose hunting.

    At the mall. :D :

    Merry Christmas to all.

  224. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:01 am

    Kate,

    Yes…..Garza and Kuroda stink ……stay away :)

  225. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 9:01 am

    blake -

    Sorry, but I disagree with you on the Danks deal. Take a look at his total ML career, and then tell me again he was not over paid.

    His record of 54-56, with a lifetime ERA of 4.03 warrants being paid Ace money, not by me. Back in the day, he’d have a tough time making the club of any good ML team, but alas, our standards of what we call quality players has gone way down.

  226. BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Be back later.

  227. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 9:03 am

    No Al. Just a bit colder than normal.

    Blake-

    Yeah. Do that.

    ;)

  228. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Probably already saw this, but latest Yankee Rumors at MLB Rumors

    •The Yankees’ chances of signing Cuban outfielder Yoenis Cespedes are “slim to none,” according to Marc Carig of the Star-Ledger (Twitter link).
    •The Yankees weren’t close to a deal for John Danks, a source tells Andrew Marchand of ESPN New York. Brian Cashman and Kenny Williams “haven’t spoken in weeks” after some initial contact, but the Yankees weren’t interested in meeting Chicago’s demands for their left-hander. Danks and the White Sox agreed to a five-year contract extension yesterday, ending the Danks trade rumors for the foreseeable future.
    •The Yankees and Red Sox were the only teams that paid a luxury tax penalty for 2011, reports The Associated Press. New York paid a $13.9MM penalty (the team’s lowest since 2003) while Boston paid $3.4MM.

  229. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 9:05 am

    MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 8:49 am
    Gary-

    If we are talkin’ Xmas trees I can guarantee you they “cut” their inventory.

    You shoulda’ come out here and cut your own.

    We’ve got plenty.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    MTU I was talking artifical, but a great pun. You are such a quick study :-)

  230. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Maine-

    Pisses me off that King wrote Shawshank.

    It was a wonderful story and frankly I never thought the guy had that kind of talent. Guess he does.

    oh well.

    :)

  231. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 9:07 am

    New thread —->

    Gary-

    I cheat.

    I use PEB’s.

    :)

  232. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:08 am

    “Take a look at his total ML career, and then tell me again he was not over paid.”

    I have……his career numbers reflect his terrible rookie year. He has been very solid ever since except fir the first half of 2011. He’s going into his prime age at 27 and has a track record of being good.

    All players are overpaid but when you look at what guys like Burnett, Lackey, Wilson, and Buerles’s markets were……Danks signed for a significant discount on what he coukd have gotten as a FA.

  233. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 9:09 am

    BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 9:01 am
    blake -

    Sorry, but I disagree with you on the Danks deal. Take a look at his total ML career, and then tell me again he was not over paid.

    His record of 54-56, with a lifetime ERA of 4.03 warrants being paid Ace money, not by me. Back in the day, he’d have a tough time making the club of any good ML team, but alas, our standards of what we call quality players has gone way down.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seems like we have this endless overpay topic. The suppy is low and the demand is high this year as it was last year and will probably be next year. You are paying to market just like any other commodity out there. If you go back to some other past years you could probably make a overpay comparison. It’s just not the way it is today in the current market. You pay what the nmarket requires or you take a pass, it’s all economics.

  234. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Danks-54-56 record and a new 5/65M contract that Boras is now using to get for Edwin Jackson who has comparable numbers over the last 3 years.

  235. ron December 23rd, 2011 at 10:26 am

    I hope the yankees don’t make the mistake of not signing another decent pitcher for debth,while the rs do what we did last year.Signing a few pitchers for debth,and it making a big difference in their favor.

    They have a real good team,with becket,lester,buchholz.
    If they sign kuroda,they will have a nice staff.


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