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LoHud Yankees chat starts at noon

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 22, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

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79 Responses to “LoHud Yankees chat starts at noon”

  1. Shame Spencer December 22nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    I’ve been trying to get Chad to answer questions from ‘Chad’s Girls’ for 2 chats in a row now to no avail..

  2. Shame Spencer December 22nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    He’s obviously no Derek Jeter.

  3. LGY December 22nd, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Unreal

    “The Yankees are still unlikely to do anything major this offseason unless they can unload some money, a baseball official with knowledge of their plans. So even though they like Hiroki Kuroda a lot, Yankees GM Brian Cashman does not have the cash to spend on the righty starter. Kuroda figures to receive at least $12 million on a one-year deal.”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....ith-kuroda

  4. Jerkface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    If the Yanks give up on Hughes after 2012 there will be 29 MLB clubs lined up to sign him.

    If hughes has a disaster season I’m sure some teams will want to buy low on him or pick him up if he is non-tendered, but you have to look at Hughes objectively. We all love Hughes, he was our first big gun after a long time of barren farm syndrome. He has done a heckuva lot of nothing on the major league level.

    We know he can be an effective reliever and has shown glimpses of being a solid starter but he hasn’t started effectively for a whole season.

    Haven’t we been wishing/predicting Hughes breakout for 4 seasons now? His 2010 was a very good first half and a decent overall season but he followed it up with another disaster season. He isn’t a guy the Yankees count on. He doesn’t anchor the rotation. The Yankees are hoping he produces because it’d be nice, if he doesn’t they have guys right behind him.

  5. Jerkface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Hilarious, the Yankees are broke!!

  6. Jerkface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    It may be “make or break” as a starter in your mind(s), but I don’t think many decision makers in the majors would agree with that thinking.

    Look at how many starters pitch the way Hughes has and don’t get left behind eventually. There are players drafted higher, with higher bonuses, better prospect rankings, or whatever criteria you wanna go with (essentially Hughes-clones) that don’t get the amount of chances Hughes has received.

    Hughes has to be GOOD to stay with the Yankees. This is not the Royals.

    What if Hughes ISN’T good next year? You really think the Yankees are so attached to him that they will keep parading him out there ala AJ Burnett?

  7. Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    I don’t see Hughes getting that much in a one-off deal. He’s coming off a season with a 5.79 ERA, an ERA+ of 77. He’s going to cost $3MM this year and he’s only under team control for this year and next. Maybe if you packaged him with a combination of Phelps, Warren and Romine you might get something, but not a pitcher of Gio Gonzalez’ quality.

  8. dogface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    K
    U
    R
    BACON
    D
    A

  9. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Im not one to.complain about the Yankee payroll……but the budget is becoming annoying when you consider what their revenues are.

  10. dogface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Boo. It didn’t work.

  11. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    When Cashman talks about unloading salary…..he’s talking about trading AJ……that’s the only option.

  12. Erin December 22nd, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Shame- :lol:

  13. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    LGY -

    Two things:

    1. Take nothing ESPN says too seriously
    2. Take nothing attributed to “baseball officials with knowledge of their plans” too seriously

    Do I think the Yankees are going to spend $12 mil on your boy? No, not without dumping some salary. Do I think the Yankees are crying poor? No, not really.

    I just think that Cashman looks at the only guy in the rotation worth bumping to be AJ and he can’t do it. He can’t find someone to take on all that salary and he can’t convince Hal that Hiroki Kuroda is worth 12 mil plus whatever amount of money they would have to pay to make AJ disappear.

  14. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Free Hank! :)

  15. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:12 pm
    When Cashman talks about unloading salary…..he’s talking about trading AJ……that’s the only option.

    —————

    And it isn’t even really an option – not if he’s only willing to pick up 1/3 of his salary.

  16. dogface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    When Cashman talks about unloading salary…..he’s talking about trading AJ……that’s the only option

    ========================

    Yeah, that seems pretty clear. I don’t think he’s going to have a great deal of luck, but he might be able to get $5M or so of Burnett’s $16M if he’s so inclined. I would hope that would be enough to take on someone like Kuroda for a year.

  17. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    Im not one to.complain about the Yankee payroll……but the budget is becoming annoying when you consider what their revenues are.

    ————–

    Yeah but it’s also reasonable when you realize how much of that revenue MLB is draining from them to help with their mythological “competative balance”

  18. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Plus – it’s not like they’re pinching pennies – they still have the highest payroll it’s just that a good portion of it is tied up in some bad contracts:

    Igawa
    Burnett
    Soriano

  19. Irreverent Discourse December 22nd, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I asked this the other day and never got a response. What other pitchers with bad contracts have ever been dump-traded?

  20. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Chip,

    Can’t argue there….however its still annoying.

  21. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Igawa is gone

  22. Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    “I asked this the other day and never got a response. What other pitchers with bad contracts have ever been dump-traded?”

    Isn’t Derek Lowe the most recent comp?

  23. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    My complaint is as it has always been – I can’t think of a single person who owns a major league baseball team who is struggling for money and I don’t see why the Yankees (or any other high revenue team) should be penalized for their success to the point where they are in effect paying for the players on opposing teams to beat them.

    If you don’t want to spend the revenues you bring in on talent then sell the team or let MLB contract them.

    Contraction will only serve to improve the game on the field by deepening the talent pool.

  24. Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    “I can’t think of a single person who owns a major league baseball team who is struggling for money”

    I can think of at least one, maybe two.

  25. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Chip,

    They don’t pinch pennies…..but they do waste a lot of money ….so if they are going to stick to a payroll number then they need to become more efficient so they can get more out of that number.

  26. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    I’m not exactly sure what’s going on with the team – but if they pass on Kuroda, that will be a kind of watershed moment.

    To me – that’s a much more telling and in some ways bigger issue than even passing on Darvish.

    With all of these different options open this winter – Wilson, Darvish, etc. All had major drawbacks/ risks associated with them where it was reasonable to pass.

    The head of the team’s baseball operations has said he is looking for pitching multiple times. The “keys to the kingdom” to speak.

    Kuroda is a pitcher they clearly like and have tried to acquire multiple times.

    He is willing to sign on a 1 year deal – which is absolutely perfect for what the team needs to transition to younger players.

    He’s a clear upgrade on what they have.

    It’s been clear that the organization is looking to decrease their payroll – and in many ways that makes sense given how wasteful they’ve been in the past.

    But the process of decreasing payroll while retaining competitiveness requires flexibility.

    Kuroda is exactly the kind of player they should be flexible on.

    The notion that they don’t have 12M to spend on him is nonsense.

    And what makes this even worse is that it was ownership who directly signed Alex to that contract and signed Soriano.

    It was ownership who hamstrung the baseball operations and now they are preventing reasonable moves to be made to strengthen the baseball operations for 12M?

    The same amount they are paying Soriano.

  27. Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    “I don’t see why the Yankees (or any other high revenue team) should be penalized for their success to the point where they are in effect paying for the players on opposing teams to beat them.”

    Take away the territorial protection and I’d agree with you, but with territorial protection it’s a much closer question.

  28. Irreverent Discourse December 22nd, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    WYH – Yeah I forgot about Lowe, can we think of any others?

    CB – The notion that they don’t have 12M to spend on him is nonsense.
    This is why we don’t take anything written on ESPN seriously.

  29. Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    CB-

    Kuroda makes so much sense (what if he changed his name to Pettitte?) that I begin to think the money is what is stopping the deal. Which makes the Soriano signing all that more frustrating.

  30. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    CB,

    Yes

  31. dogface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    I asked this the other day and never got a response. What other pitchers with bad contracts have ever been dump-traded?

    ======================

    Mike Hampton.

  32. Irreverent Discourse December 22nd, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    I don’t think there is any disconnect with Kuroda and the Yankees. He knows they want him, they know they want him… he just doesn’t know where he wants to play yet. No reason to expect this decision to be made lightly.

  33. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Wave,

    I think its budget restrictions rather than cash flow which is the issue.

    The team’s payroll has been the same as it was in the old stadium – but the revenues have skyrocketed.

    That means either they were spending money they didn’t have before, are now forced to pay down debt at a rapid rate, or their margins are going up.

    The debt structure of the stadium seemed very favorable.

    This seems like its business decisions being driven by the CBA. Hal just may be adamantly opposed to paying the tax.

    Kuroda makes so much sense – passing on him is penny wise pound foolish so to speak.

    And it absolutely makes the Soriano signing that much worse because it is now driving the opportunity cost of that nonsensical move higher and higher.

  34. Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Lowe establishes the market for AJ. Very comparable salaries and performances. The Braves ate two-thirds of his contract.

  35. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    If Vernon Wells contract can be moved…..I have to believe anybody’s can.

  36. dogface December 22nd, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    I can’t think of a single person who owns a major league baseball team who is struggling for money

    ======================

    Fred Wilpon says YO!

    It’s not so much a matter of struggling for money as it is struggling for baseball revenues. There are more than a few teams that struggle in that area.

  37. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Lowe establishes the market for AJ. Very comparable salaries and performances. The Braves ate two-thirds of his contract.
    ===========

    That’s too much IMO.

  38. Irreverent Discourse December 22nd, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Oooh Hampton is a good one, he got dumped twice in 2 days lol

  39. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    If Vernon Wells contract can be moved…..I have to believe anybody’s can.
    ========

    That was a pretty amazing piece of work by the new Toronto GM, and he did right in the nick of time.

  40. Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    CB-

    It’s of course impossible to say what the Yankee bottom line is. All I know is that they’ve held the line on salaries for quite a while now. I think there has to be a reason for that. I suspect they are at the limit of what they think they can afford. Now why they shelled out all that money for Soriano last year I can’t answer.

  41. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    CB,

    What do you think the Rays are going to do with David Price? That sounds like a crazy question but since he opted out he’s going to have 4 years cleaning up in arbitration…..a Rays like move would seem to be to keep him this year and then try to trade him for a boatload before he gets really expensive as an arb 3 and 4??

  42. Irreverent Discourse December 22nd, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Hal just may be adamantly opposed to paying the tax.

    As he should be. No sense in unnecessarily subsidizing bad teams. Once the teams get back under the luxury tax threshhold… with any luck the revenue sharing system will dry up and they’ll introduce a salary floor. Only then will they see “competitive balance” because only then will “competing” become necessary for poor teams.

    Once those small clubs are forced to spend money rather than just pocket handouts from the rich teams, then contraction enters the realm of possibilities.

  43. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    “All I know is that they’ve held the line on salaries for quite a while now. I think there has to be a reason for that. I suspect they are at the limit of what they think they can afford. ”

    Wave,

    They have held that line on payroll. But during that time we know their revenues sky rocketed.

    So something doesn’t add up for it to be a cash flow/ resources issue.

    The only caveat is if they were paying some very onerous debt payments on the new stadium or have incurred some other losses outside of the direct sporting opertions like the Wilpon’s or Glazers have.

    That’s possible – but really only theoretically. That hasn’t even been speculated on.

    And in line with that was the Soriano move – organizations that are tapped out on cash don’t suddenly make 36M appear out of nowhere for an asset which is a superflous luxury rather than a definitive need.

    I don’t think that ‘s it – unless there has been a huge problem that’s developed on the business side that we don’t know about.

    Maybe Hal was pals with John Corzine or bet eurozone bonds long. Who knows. But it would take something like that to create a liquidity problem for the Yanks.

  44. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    I don’t have nearly as much an issue with them setting a budget number as I do them continuing to operate in some ways like they haven’t. Like refusing to extend players where appropriate…..and like hanging on to dead money if it could be moved……and like signing players they don’t need.

    If you’re going to have a budget…..then get the most out of it.

  45. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 22nd, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    G Love,

    I agree in part, but I think you’re a bit too presumptuous as to what Swisher would net us in the way of a starting pitcher.

    Trading for Swisher means taking on salary (not cheap) not to mention extending him. He’s a year away from Free Agency, so why would a team be compelled to give up a quality starting pitcher for a year of Nick Swisher?? He’s good, but he’s not THAT good. And if NY isn’t getting a quality SP in exchange for him, what’s the point of trading him?

    If teams are calling about Gardner or Swisher and are willing to cough up a quality SP, then sign me up. I have no problem dealing either of those guys, especially Swisher, as much as I love him.

    And for those of you lobbying for Beltran, no thanks. Cashman shouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole. He’s over the hill, his knees are shot, and they can afford to take a gamble on one of these Cuban guys if they want to add OF depth.

    Need I remind you that we have enough old guys on our team as it is???

  46. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    CB-

    It’s of course impossible to say what the Yankee bottom line is. All I know is that they’ve held the line on salaries for quite a while now. I think there has to be a reason for that. I suspect they are at the limit of what they think they can afford. Now why they shelled out all that money for Soriano last year I can’t answer.
    ===

    I think that the salary cap has a lot to do with it: It’s like paying overtime. No business likes to do it, and generally only will do so as a stopgap measure but not as a standard way of doing business. Second, they spent a load of money on the new park. According to Forbes, they earned only $26 million operating profit last year. That is not much at all compared with the value of the franchise. In fact, that $26 million compared with Kuroda’s likely salary is a pretty stark comparison: They would be giving away nearly half of their pre-tax operating income to a player. that’s not nothing.

  47. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    “What do you think the Rays are going to do with David Price? ”

    They’re going to trade him. It’s just a matter of time.

    I’d guess they’ll hold on to him for at least another 2 probably 3 years as long as they are competitive.

  48. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 22nd, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    blake,

    RE: Price

    I’m sure the Yankees would love to bring him in if TB moves him at any point, but I HIGHLY doubt you’ll see them deal him to an AL East rival.

    They can build their rotation around Moore and Hellickson in the coming years, so yes, Price is expendable, but I just cannot see New York getting him without having to pay a steeper price than a non-division rival would.

  49. blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Yea I don’t think the Rays would deal with the Yanks either….

  50. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    “Second, they spent a load of money on the new park. According to Forbes, they earned only $26 million operating profit last year. That is not much at all compared with the value of the franchise. In fact, that $26 million compared with Kuroda’s likely salary is a pretty stark comparison: ”

    But that doesn’t count the TV network – which is the most profitable team based regional sports network in the US.

    The park itself makes the team sustainable at a 200M+ payroll. The TV money then pure profit on top of that – and that is an enormous sum of money.

  51. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    CB December 22nd, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    “Second, they spent a load of money on the new park. According to Forbes, they earned only $26 million operating profit last year. That is not much at all compared with the value of the franchise. In fact, that $26 million compared with Kuroda’s likely salary is a pretty stark comparison: ”

    But that doesn’t count the TV network – which is the most profitable team based regional sports network in the US.

    The park itself makes the team sustainable at a 200M+ payroll. The TV money then pure profit on top of that – and that is an enormous sum of money.
    ========

    Perhaps not, but that doesn’t mean that the team isn’t going to be run as a profitable concern in its own right. The other business concerns shouldn’t be considered a bottomless cookie jar for the team to raid to sign players. Twenty-six million bucks on over $400 million in revenues is a pretty pitiful return. Moreover, none of this even touches on the fact that team revenues were down $14 million in 2011.

    ARod’s and (to a lesser degree) Burnett’s contracts are sucking all of the air out of the room for the Yanks…

  52. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    “Perhaps not, but that doesn’t mean that the team isn’t going to be run as a profitable concern in its own right. ”

    Yes I agree. That’s what I’m posting about.

    To me – if the Yankees pass on a guy like Kuroda that’s a real signal that they are changing the way they do business.

    It’s been an ongoing process since Hal took over – but for me this would be a kind of watershed moment in that transition.

    If its not a cash flow issue – which I don’t think it is – then its a move designed to improve margins.

    And that has not been the way the yankees have been run – even since Hank and Hal took over.

    The idea that 12M would stop them from acquiring an asset which the baseball operations side of the organization clearly have interest and want – that’s a amplification of a new business behavior.

    That’s the point I’m trying to make.

    The yankees are acting like other profit seeking concerns and investing less in their operations in order to maximize returns.

    That’s the way a business acts when it is confident in in its revenue streams and doesn’t feel that additional improvement will increase those returns.

    We’ll see.

    To not improve the club in an area where the GM has prioritized for 12M – especially after wasting that same amount on Soriano last winter – is a very different yankee organization. It’s a much bigger issue than passing on Darvish as the sum isn’t very much, its a short term deal and a clear baseball upgrade.

  53. Pat M. December 22nd, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    CB…..I’m going on the premise from what has been mentioned is that The Yanks have made an offer to Kuroda and are waiting on him and an announcement should be made before New Years if not sooner…….Kuroda is a fine heady pitcher who doesn’t hurt himself ….He attacks the zone and has punch out ability when needed…….I can see the Yanks making the strongest financial push for him, it’s a question of years and being that far away from home……He’s good

  54. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    CB December 22nd, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    “Perhaps not, but that doesn’t mean that the team isn’t going to be run as a profitable concern in its own right. ”

    Yes I agree. That’s what I’m posting about.

    To me – if the Yankees pass on a guy like Kuroda that’s a real signal that they are changing the way they do business.
    =========

    I think that they are just returning to the way that they used to do business. They ran operating losses in the naughts for whatever reason, the new park, getting the old man another trophy, etc. Now, the splurge is over. After peaking at $253 million in 2008, the Yanks have been tightening their expenditures on player salaries. Even when the old man was in charge, the team used to turn a profit. Don’t forget those great Yankee teams of the late nineties were largely homegrown, and pretty cheap: Total payroll for the 1998 club was only $63 million(!!!), and they had only the second-highest payroll in the Majors (with the Orioles in the top spot). http://content.usatoday.com/sp...../team/1998

  55. RadioKev December 22nd, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    The yankees are acting like other profit seeking concerns and investing less in their operations in order to maximize returns.

    That’s the way a business acts when it is confident in in its revenue streams and doesn’t feel that additional improvement will increase those returns.

    We’ll see.

    To not improve the club in an area where the GM has prioritized for 12M – especially after wasting that same amount on Soriano last winter – is a very different yankee organization. It’s a much bigger issue than passing on Darvish as the sum isn’t very much, its a short term deal and a clear baseball upgrade.
    —————–

    Yeah, it’s a pretty amazing. Whenever I ever encounter Yankee haters, I could always say “at least our owners care.” Hopefully this is not the beginning of a disturbing trend.

    I want to see the Yankees worry about winning games first, not making money first. Win and the money will come.

  56. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:26 pm
    Chip,

    They don’t pinch pennies…..but they do waste a lot of money ….so if they are going to stick to a payroll number then they need to become more efficient so they can get more out of that number.

    ————

    I agree – and I think they’re trying

  57. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    If Vernon Wells contract can be moved…..I have to believe anybody’s can.
    ========

    Just remember though – The GM who picked up that contract is now no longer a GM.

  58. CompassRosy December 22nd, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    If Vernon Wells contract can be moved…..I have to believe anybody’s can.
    ==========

    Good point, blake.
    Gives me hope we can wave bye-bye to Figgins in the not-so-distant future…

  59. CompassRosy December 22nd, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Just remember though – The GM who picked up that contract is now no longer a GM.

    =====

    wet blanket.

    ;-)

  60. CB December 22nd, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    “After peaking at $253 million in 2008, the Yanks have been tightening their expenditures on player salaries.”

    So let me be clear. The reason why I am even bringing this up as an issue – and it completely depends on the notion that they won’t spend 12M on Kuroda – which may be completely wrong – but it is the working assumption of the conversations is the following:

    The GM of the organization has said it is his goal to bring in pitching. He’s stated it publicly multiple times.

    If he’s not even going to be able to come up with 12M – then that’s a huge shift in how the organization is run.

    And a second point – I’m well aware that the dynasty teams weren’t outlandishly expensive. I don’t think the team should just be profligate and waste money. I love minor league ball and absolutely feel organic growth through internally developed players should be the foundation for the team.

    But there needs to be a progression pathway from $253M back to sanity. If you want to compete you can’t just expect to do it suddenly.

    And to me Kuroda is a perfect transition piece back to sanity because he’ll sign short term and give the kids a chance to mature in peace.

    What makes this even more acute – is that it was ownerships meddling itself which has made getting back to sanity so complicated.

    It seems disingenuous to saddle the baseball operations with Alex’s contract and Soriano’s and then just say – sorry – just make do we need to maximize our margins.

    Those contracts – Alex’s especially – mean that the progression pathway back to sanity has to include more flexibility and will take longer to get back to.

    But that’s ownership’s actions that they should be accountable for.

    Let’s see what happens.

  61. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    If Vernon Wells contract can be moved…..I have to believe anybody’s can.
    ========

    Just remember though – The GM who picked up that contract is now no longer a GM.
    =====

    Deservedly so, I would say! He picked up an $80 million contract for a guy that hit something like .200? That GM is lucky that they didn’t fire him out of the stadium on a giant catapult :)

  62. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    AJ likely gets moved next offseason – not this one.

    Next year that $8 mil that Cashman is willing to pay of his salary represents half, not 1/4 owed him.

  63. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 1:29 pm
    Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    blake December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    If Vernon Wells contract can be moved…..I have to believe anybody’s can.
    ========

    Just remember though – The GM who picked up that contract is now no longer a GM.
    =====

    Deservedly so, I would say! He picked up an $80 million contract for a guy that hit something like .200? That GM is lucky that they didn’t fire him out of the stadium on a giant catapult
    ————-

    I agree – just pointing out that because one GM made a stupid move doesn’t mean that other GMs are going to do the same thing :-)

  64. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 22nd, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    Lowe establishes the market for AJ. Very comparable salaries and performances. The Braves ate two-thirds of his contract.

    —————————————————————————————————————————-

    That isn’t comparable. 2/3rds of one year isn’t the same as 2/3rds of 2 years.

  65. RayVT December 22nd, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    What do you think the chances are that the Yanks have discussed an Andy Pettite return around AS break for 2012 and are going to see how the young guys stack up until then?

  66. Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    CB –

    I don’t think Cashman has ever said he wanted to bring in pitching – I think his goal is to improve the pitching.

    There’s a difference there in that improving the pitching can be done through talent development augmented by Free Agents.

    Let’s also remember something else – when the Yankees saw a pitcher on the market that they viewed as a clear upgrade they didn’t hesitate to offer Cliff Lee a huge money deal. So the money is there, and Cashman can still spend it, I just think he’s trying to be more judicious on who he spends it on and, I guess, that based on what he’s being told by his people, Kuroda isn’t worth the money he’s asking for or doesn’t represent a clear enough upgrade to the rotation to justify it.

  67. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Ray, I think Pettitte is over baseball for this year and probablt for good. His next game in YS will be the 2012 OTD.

  68. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    If he’s not even going to be able to come up with 12M – then that’s a huge shift in how the organization is run.

    =========

    I understand your point. I just don’t see this decision on not pursuing Kuroda as a watershed. My point is that this recent “frugality” is only a shift compared to the last few years. I would consider the last few years the aberration, not the belt-tightening. And I could easily see Cash and Hank saying to themselves that they got to a $200+ million payroll, by telling themselves, Well, we’ll do just this one contract to put us over the hump. No more for now!” There has to come a point at which you’ve got to draw the line, especially when you are trying to re institute spending discipline.

  69. pat December 22nd, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    “…..then its a move designed to improve margins.”

    possibly a move to appease a commisioner and a vocal minority of owners too.

    Bud has been beating the keeping salaries and spending drum louder than ever the past couple of years.

    Professional sports are interesting because other owners are your competition but also your “partners”..

  70. raymagnetic December 22nd, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    “And what makes this even worse is that it was ownership who directly signed Alex to that contract and signed Soriano.

    It was ownership who hamstrung the baseball operations and now they are preventing reasonable moves to be made to strengthen the baseball operations for 12M?”

    Ownership also allowed Cashman to sign Burnett. He’s totally on the hook for that contract that even Stevie Wonder could see was not going to work out.

    Carl Pavano – Cashman
    Jaret Wright – Cashman
    Damaso Marte – yep Cashman
    Pedro Feliciano – Cashman

    So please, Cashman has wasted plenty of the owners money himself.

  71. Irreverent Discourse December 22nd, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    Professional sports are interesting because other owners are your competition but also your “partners”

    This gives a lot of creedance to how the NFL owners operate. By splitting almost all revenues they remove most of that competition factor.

    If MLB teams were being fed enough money every season to cover their payroll like NFL teams are, they could stop looking at payroll as a profit margin.

  72. DONNYBROOK December 22nd, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    You guys are way off. Cashman Knows his 2012 team had the Best record in the AL , he Knows his roster is currently the same, and hence this team as currently comprised Will make the 2012 Playoffs. He’s therefore gonna stand pat. Once the 2012 season starts, and Cashman can actually see\appraise how the Yanks fare head-to-head against their probable AL Playoff Opponents, THEN he will do whatever is necessary and monetarily possible with 2014 in mind. Till that time it’s, “what you see is what you get”.

  73. raymagnetic December 22nd, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Cashman should be embarrassed to ask ownership for more money for pitching considering how much money he’s thrown in the toilet the past few years on pitching.

  74. GreenBeret7 December 22nd, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Everyone talks about how much money is saved by eating 2/3rds of Burnett’s contract is actually saving money (which is BS) but then want to dump at least $12 mil on Kuroda, though when figuring in the tax penalty, it’s in fact $18 mil.

  75. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    pat December 22nd, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    “…..then its a move designed to improve margins.”

    possibly a move to appease a commisioner and a vocal minority of owners too.

    Bud has been beating the keeping salaries and spending drum louder than ever the past couple of years.

    Professional sports are interesting because other owners are your competition but also your “partners”..
    ———

    Obviously, that is what the salary cap is designed to do. The Yanks (to their credit) have been ignoring this kind of jawboning for years. I can’t imagine that they would ever pay it much mind, absent some kind of binding penalties.

  76. Ruby Red Sock December 22nd, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    New Post——–:arrow:

  77. Ruby Red Sock December 22nd, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    :arrow:

  78. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 22nd, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    You guys are way off. Cashman Knows his 2012 team had the Best record in the AL , he Knows his roster is currently the same, and hence this team as currently comprised Will make the 2012 Playoffs. He’s therefore gonna stand pat. Once the 2012 season starts, and Cashman can actually see\appraise how the Yanks fare head-to-head against their probable AL Playoff Opponents, THEN he will do whatever is necessary and monetarily possible with 2014 in mind. Till that time it’s, “what you see is what you get”.
    ===============

    That’s part of it, but you’re ignoring the larger environment in which these decisions are being made. If winning was the only thing guiding Cashman’s decision-making, then he would sign Kuroda to a one-year deal, and dump AJ. It’s a no-brainer.

  79. Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    Chip December 22nd, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    CB –

    I don’t think Cashman has ever said he wanted to bring in pitching – I think his goal is to improve the pitching.

    There’s a difference there in that improving the pitching can be done through talent development augmented by Free Agents.

    ========

    Good point.

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