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Swisher: “We feel we have an amazing team”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 23, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Nick Swisher was on the YES Network last night, and he took some exception to the idea that the Yankees haven’t enough enough to improve themselves this winter.

“I think it’s time to put us back on the map,” he said. “I think with the guys we have going into this season, we feel confident. A lot of people are saying, why haven’t the Yankees made any moves? Well, we didn’t win the most games in the American League last year with just nobody. We feel we have an amazing team, and we’re going to go out there and hope we prove that this year.”

As it is, the Yankees most significant loss from last season is Jorge Posada, who has been replaced — upgraded? — by the arrival of Jesus Montero. Otherwise, the Yankees are missing some pieces from the bench and they lost some rotation depth when Bartolo Colon became a free agent, but otherwise they’re bringing back almost the exact same team that finished last season.

“In New York, people expect to win, and we want to win for them,” Swisher said. “Regardless of whatever lineup we put on the field, we will be competitive.”

Check out the rest of the interview to hear Swisher talk about the holidays, his offseason trip to visit troops overseas and his personal goals for this winter and next season.

“I just turned 31,” he said. “I don’t feel it, but this is my eighth season in the big leagues. It’s about time to really turn that on.”

Associated Press photo

 
 

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114 Responses to “Swisher: “We feel we have an amazing team””

  1. Ys Guy December 23rd, 2011 at 9:09 am

    i concur! we have our weaknesses, so does everybody else. A healthier arod and increasing contributions from the farm are gonna make this year’s team even better than the 97 win team of last year.

    Merry Christmas Everyone!

  2. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 9:09 am
    BIG AL December 23rd, 2011 at 9:01 am
    blake -

    Sorry, but I disagree with you on the Danks deal. Take a look at his total ML career, and then tell me again he was not over paid.

    His record of 54-56, with a lifetime ERA of 4.03 warrants being paid Ace money, not by me. Back in the day, he’d have a tough time making the club of any good ML team, but alas, our standards of what we call quality players has gone way down.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Seems like we have this endless overpay topic. The suppy is low and the demand is high this year as it was last year and will probably be next year. You are paying to market just like any other commodity out there. If you go back to some other past years you could probably make a overpay comparison. It’s just not the way it is today in the current market. You pay what the nmarket requires or you take a pass, it’s all economics

  3. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:11 am

    If the Nats ponied up and signed Fielder…….how far behind the Phillies would that put them?

    The Nats are trending upward big time…..sad for the orioles who are buried in the AL east and now the Nats are going to start cutting into their fanbase.

  4. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 9:12 am

    I take most of what Swish says with a grain of salt. I think we have a very good team, but amazing Swish a bit of a stretch.

  5. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:13 am

    I have……his career numbers reflect his terrible rookie year. He has been very solid ever since except fir the first half of 2011. He’s going into his prime age at 27 and has a track record of being good.

    All players are overpaid but when you look at what guys like Burnett, Lackey, Wilson, and Buerles’s markets were……Danks signed for a significant discount on what he coukd have gotten as a FA.

  6. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Swish playin’ for meal money this year.

    Go get ‘em partner.

    ;)

  7. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Get one more solid season out of Swish and then let him get his big contract elsewhere.

  8. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 9:18 am

    His record of 54-56, with a lifetime ERA of 4.03 warrants being paid Ace money

    ============================

    I believe the Yankees established the market for such numbers when Burnett signed for 5 and $82M.

  9. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Got to run soon.

    Another one of those hiking days.

    I’m grateful to my feet for another year of explorin’.

    I cannot be “defeeted” for now.

    Later.

    :)

  10. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 9:20 am

    If the Nats sign Fielder they will definitely improve on their run production which was only better than the Padres, Astros, Pirates and Giants. Tough division now with an improved Marlins team and the always present Braves. Only the financially troubled Mets are already out of it.

  11. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Get one more solid season out of Swish and then let him get his big contract elsewhere

    ======================

    Don’t be shocked if he’s back with the Yankees. Not going to be much, if anything, out there better than he is next offseason. If he were to agree to 3 yrs with a 4th year option in the $12M-$13M range, I think it could happen.

  12. MTU December 23rd, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Happy Holidays Y’s.

    :)

  13. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:21 am

    “I believe the Yankees established the market for such numbers when Burnett signed for 5 and $82M.”

    At age 31……Danks will be 27 and you take away his terrible rookie hear and those career numbers are more reflective of who he is. He’s a 200 innings 3 something era guy from the left side and that’s really valuable these days……especially at 27.

  14. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:23 am

    DF,

    I wont be shocked but I think the Yanks should be trying to find additional options so that Swisher doesn’t have them over a barrel next winter…….whether that’s taking a flyer on Cespedes or searching the trade market. Hamilton would be out there……but that’s about it.

  15. Gary December 23rd, 2011 at 9:24 am

    dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 9:20 am
    Get one more solid season out of Swish and then let him get his big contract elsewhere

    ======================

    Don’t be shocked if he’s back with the Yankees. Not going to be much, if anything, out there better than he is next offseason. If he were to agree to 3 yrs with a 4th year option in the $12M-$13M range, I think it could happen.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    They won’t consider bringing him back if he bombs in the PS again. I think it’s always possible that if he puts up career numbers in the regular season maybe he gets some latitude on that, but if he does his usual PS thing it’s bye bye. I think they both understand that.

  16. pat December 23rd, 2011 at 9:26 am

    “Should I trumpet keeping AJ now?”

    Working on the change-up? :wink:

  17. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Only the financially troubled Mets are already out of it

    ==============================

    Probably not alone in this regard, but when I think of the Mets, I’m reminded of this conversation, with G. Costanza plaing the role of the Mets:

    Cosmo Kramer: You’re wasting your life.
    George Costanza: I am not. What you call wasting, I call living. I’m living my life.
    Cosmo Kramer: OK, like what? No, tell me. Do you have a job?
    George Costanza: No.
    Cosmo Kramer: You got money?
    George Costanza: No.
    Cosmo Kramer: Do you have a woman?
    George Costanza: No.
    Cosmo Kramer: Do you have any prospects?
    George Costanza: No.
    Cosmo Kramer: You got anything on the horizon?
    George Costanza: Uh, no.
    Cosmo Kramer: Do you have any action at all?
    George Costanza: No.
    Cosmo Kramer: Do you have any conceivable reason for even getting up in the morning?
    George Costanza: I like to get the Daily News.

  18. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 9:28 am

    They won’t consider bringing him back if he bombs in the PS again

    I’d take that bet.

  19. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 9:28 am

    There are reasons the Yankees offensive production could improve on the second best run production[867] in the league. Boston was 1st[875]. #1 homers [222]. .343 OB% was 2nd in league.

    A healthy A-Rod
    Tex finally hitting for average from the left side.
    Swisher improving in a walk year.
    Gardner getting on base at better than a .345 clip.
    An improved BA from Martin.
    And then there’s Montero!

  20. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Dogface-

    Thanks for the morning humor!! :)

  21. Tom in N.J. December 23rd, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Starting pitchers get ‘overpaid’ by 20%.

    Look at how many 3-4-5 guys get 8-12 million per.

    If you can give a team around 200 innings and an ERA around league average, you’re looking at millions.

  22. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 9:32 am

    A healthy A-Rod
    Tex finally hitting for average from the left side.
    Swisher improving in a walk year.
    Gardner getting on base at better than a .345 clip.
    An improved BA from Martin.
    And then there’s Montero!

    =================================

    I think we probably go about 2 for 6 on this list. Maybe 3.

  23. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:34 am

    George made that show……not Jerry …..not Kramer…..not Elaine.

  24. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 9:34 am

    dogface – one of them being solely that Montero exists? That’s selling the team a bit short i think.

  25. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Tom,

    Correct……just look what Buerle got for being a career #3……

  26. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 9:36 am

    ID:

    Yes, Montero being an improvement over Posada is one I see as certain. Also high on Gardner impproving his OBP. The rest of them? Not so much.

  27. Cashmoney December 23rd, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Yankees has a good team and prolly stands another good shot at winning or qualifying for a playoff spot again. The money we had is already tied up in aging players for the next 3-5 years. It is what it is, I am hoping that farm guys pays dividends soon than later. As a spoiled fan, i can always say things could be better… then again, it could be worse.

    Happy Holidays to Everyone!

  28. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Anyway, need to go for now.

    Todays predictions, as aways subject to change on a whim! :)

    Fielder signs after the Holidays. Boras doesn’t get him a 10 year contract. Spurns the Mariners and the AL for the Nationals @ 7 years. Thought theCubs would be in, but apparently now are “rebuilding.”

    Jackson gets a ridiculous offer from the Marlins, looking to add one more pitcher.

    Kuroda decides after all that 12-13M isn’t enough to relocate from the west coast and goes back to Japan for considerable less money.

    Red Sox trade Reddick and what little is left of their minor league system for Andrew Bailey as Madson is too rich for them.

    Cordero goes back to the Reds

    The Yankees sign Jorge Soler, Nakajima, and get offers for Nunez which turn into a trade for a pitcher-not named Jurrjens. AJ stays with the Yankees the entire year and has to fight to stay in the starting rotation.

    That’s it for this morning.

  29. 108 stitches December 23rd, 2011 at 9:42 am

    A good guess says that Cashman has absolutely no interest in adding 2 more years to Burnett’s contract with an up front bonus.

  30. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 9:45 am

    “Red Sox trade Reddick and what little is left of their minor league system for Andrew Bailey as Madson is too rich for them.”

    I actually hope this happens……have a good one Trader

  31. Yankee Trader December 23rd, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Blake-

    Maybe you’re right on the contract for Danks. Being a lefty is “gold.”

  32. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Danks is better than some of you realize. Last year he had two horrific outings totalling 8 2/3 innings and 17 earned runs. He pitched to a 3.61 ERA in his other 25 starts.

    At one point he was 0-5, 3.83. He’s a vvery good, solid reliable pitcher who has some very good years ahead of him. That contract could well end up looking like a bargain.

    I have no problem going ahead with the guys currently in the organization. Laird may well be as good or better than Andruw Jones in that role. I’d like Chavez back but if they go with a bench of Laird, Dickerson and Nunez they may be just fine.

    The prospect cost for Latos and Gonzalez was staggering as was the posting fee for Darvish and contract for CJ Wilson so the Yanks might as well gives the kids a chance.

  33. G-C December 23rd, 2011 at 9:53 am

    “Tom,

    Correct……just look what Buerle got for being a career #3……”

    __________________________________

    Buehrle might be a # 3 now, but his career ERA + is 120.

    That’s better than Tom Glavine’s. Not sure I’d call him a career #3. He’s a lot closer to being a career #1 than a career #3.

  34. upstate kate December 23rd, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Happy Holidays to all who didn’t see my earlier post…and be happy we are Yankee fans!!!
    I agree w/ Swish, we have an amazing team!

  35. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 10:02 am

    That’s better than Tom Glavine’s. Not sure I’d call him a career #3. He’s a lot closer to being a career #1 than a career #3″

    Ok Ill call him a career 2…..but he’s a 3 now and is 32 years old and throws 86 mph……and got like 14 million per year.

  36. Bret The Hitman December 23rd, 2011 at 10:03 am

    The starting rotation is not amazing. Nice try Swish. A sophomore slump from Nova or a regression from Freddy Garcia and this GM will be scrambling early.

  37. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 10:07 am

    One thing the Yankees do have is starting pitching depth and a really good bullpen……that helps offset lack of frontkine guys during the regular season.

  38. J. Alfred Prufrock December 23rd, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Nilsson December 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 pm
    If the presence of a healthy and productive Soriano could factor into rethinking Joba’s role back into rotation, heck I’ll forgive Levine.

    Afterall, Cashman is always on the lookout for affordable starting pitching and the primary reason he settled on Chamberlain in pen because he thought he was never the same after the injury in 2008.

    The timing of Joba’s comeback from surgery and Soriano’s presence in the pen couldn’t be more perfectly aligned.
    ////

    Nilsson December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 pm
    Ghostwriter December 22nd, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    That is a very interesting proposition. I had given up on Joba starting. However, the surgery, Cashman might consider it.

    ————————————————————–

    Cashman strikes me as a lateral thinker. I’m sure it’s on his mind, especially considering the success rate of TJS and its ramifications. Plus, I’m 100% positive that Prufrock has already written him about it, lol.
    ///

    Mr. Nilsson, somebody’s got to keep the idea alive in the virtual Yankee consciousness ;) . I had saved your initial post from previous thread to respond to, and then saw Ghost revived it here.

    I agree, of course, and you perceptively state that Joba’s resurrection to the rotation means redemption for the Soriano “excess.” I have written to Cashman, and Rothschild, on the matter. I’ve even sent “before and after” links of Joba pre and post velo uptick and pre and post slider depth. Primitive stuff, I’m sure, compared to their technology of him pitching, but just want to let them know there are folks out there in Yankeeland paying attention. Any way, excellent post.

    Merry Christmas and all other holiday cheer to the Lohud community (even those who have a blind spot on what we have in Montero, and other assorted misunderstandings ;) ).

    Just kidding, folks, no conditions – just a healthy, happy and peaceful holiday to all.

  39. jacksquat December 23rd, 2011 at 10:19 am

    86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 9:46 am
    Laird may well be as good or better than Andruw Jones in that role. I’d like Chavez back but if they go with a bench of Laird, Dickerson and Nunez they may be just fine.

    Laird better than Jones? Very much doubt it. Jones had .924 OPS vs lhp last year. Laird is not doing that. Neither is Dickerson. If the Yanks don’t make any upgrade and go cheap on the bench…

  40. comet December 23rd, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Merry Christmas Everyone!

  41. ron December 23rd, 2011 at 10:27 am

    I hope the yankees don’t make the mistake of not signing another decent pitcher for debth,while the rs do what we did last year.Signing a few pitchers for debth,and it making a big difference in their favor.

    They have a real good team,with becket,lester,buchholz.
    If they sign kuroda,they will have a nice staff

  42. jacksquat December 23rd, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Braves are looking for a shortstop aren’t they? Sign and trade Nakajima for Venters?

  43. DONNYBROOK December 23rd, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Fox sports is reporting that Cleveland, (along with several other teams), have recently contacted Cashman regarding the availabilty of Swish. Complicating the issue is the fact the Yanks do not have a replacement RF’er at their disposal. I have no problem with trading Swish, as long as it is done Before the season starts. Extracting a force like Swish from the Yankee Clubhouse during the heat of battle would be disruptive to the tune of 7.5 on the Richter Scale.

  44. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:32 am

    The Yankees don’t need no stinkin’ pitching “debth”

  45. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:32 am

    I don’t think Laird can match that ops vs LHP, but those at bats are probably going to Montero this year.

    Laird can certainly match Jones’ .709 OPS vs RHP and is more versatile defensively.

    But my point is that the Yanks have one of the best teams in the AL as they are currently constructed.

  46. Bret The Hitman December 23rd, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Excellent read on the prospect-hugger craze going on in baseball written by a founder of Baseball Prospectus. It seems we are not imagining things.

    http://www.grantland.com/story.....ect-bubble

  47. jacksquat December 23rd, 2011 at 10:39 am

    86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:32 am
    I don’t think Laird can match that ops vs LHP, but those at bats are probably going to Montero this year.

    Laird can certainly match Jones’ .709 OPS vs RHP and is more versatile defensively.

    But my point is that the Yanks have one of the best teams in the AL as they are currently constructed.

    Jones would probably mostly play vs lhp for Gardner, and some DH possibly when Montero catches. If you mean Laird instead of Chavez for 3b/1b, I’d much prefer Chavez, I doubt he is asking for much. I just don’t think much of Laird. He still has a chance but seems to run into his playing level at AA/AAA.

  48. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Excellent read on the prospect-hugger craze going on in baseball written by a founder of Baseball Prospectus. It seems we are not imagining things.

    http://www.grantland.com/story…..ect-bubble

    They’re doing a Christmas Day special there on “Idiot Trade Suggestions By Fans”.

  49. DONNYBROOK December 23rd, 2011 at 10:40 am

    “The status quo is all I know”
    Sir Brian Cashman

  50. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:41 am

    His playing level in AA? You mean EL ROY and MVP?

  51. Bret The Hitman December 23rd, 2011 at 10:42 am

    The article is an excellent read. I strongly encourage all to read it here.

  52. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Laird can certainly match Jones’ .709 OPS vs RHP

    ===========================

    Based on what evidence? He’s OPS’d under .700 over 600+ AAA plate appearances.

  53. DONNYBROOK December 23rd, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Jones defensively is Ringling Bros worthy. NO Soap.

  54. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 10:45 am

    You mean EL ROY and MVP?

    Which means… absolutely nothing.

    These are given within the talent pool, not an indication of true talent level, only that you were better than the rest of the pool.

    Some funny quip about winning the special olympics comes to mind.

  55. jacksquat December 23rd, 2011 at 10:45 am

    GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:41 am
    His playing level in AA? You mean EL ROY and MVP?

    Yes, his play at AA was fine. His play at AAA is not, so far. So no, I don’t want him as the primary 3B backup in the majors.

  56. LGY December 23rd, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Eduardo NunEz was the International League’s defensive SS of the year.

  57. raymagnetic December 23rd, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Do people not realize how good swisher is? You don’t trade one of your better offensive outfielders because of a sss playoff run.

    It’s amazing how little respect swisher gets around here.

    You trade swisher then please explain to me how you’re replacing his production. He may be bad in the playoffs but you have to get to the playoffs first and swisher most definitely helps you get to the playoffs.

  58. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 10:55 am

    It’s amazing how little respect swisher gets around here.

    =========================

    100% agree.

    The obvious rap is he hasn’t fared at all well in postseason play, but that hardly makes him unique among some of his teammates.

    The postseason is always a crapshoot and it’s small sample stuff. Hardest thing about the postseason is getting there, and in doing what he does, Swisher helps you get there. Plays reasonably good defense and gives you consistent production.

  59. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:56 am

    jacksquat —

    I prefer the veterans too. I just don’t think it matters all that much. They need a LH hitter more than a RH hitter until/unless Tex and Swish start hitting RHP again.

    That, plus the addition of Montero makes Chavez or someone like him MUCH more important than Andruw Jones.

  60. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Laird may never be a superstar, but, he’s more than passable as a hitter and on defense, whether with NY or another team. He’s hit where ever he’s played, including last season’s AAA stop, which wasn’t as bad as you’re painting it.

  61. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Laird 2010 AAA – .246/.268/.344
    Laird 2011 AAA – .260/.288/.422

    How else do you paint that? That’s bad.

  62. DONNYBROOK December 23rd, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Nobody is saying Swish issa bum. It comes down to whether you wantta pay whatever it’s gonna cost to retain him from 2013 on. I would Not bring him back, therefore I get something for him Now. Cashman missed the boat with Beltran.

  63. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 11:02 am

    He’s hit where ever he’s played, including last season’s AAA stop, which wasn’t as bad as you’re painting it

    ===========================

    Take a lot of whitewash to make a .288 OBP disappear.

  64. LGY December 23rd, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Nunez’s award said,

    For his excellent footwork and uncanny ability to deliver the ball to the 1B mitt time and time again. True story.

  65. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:07 am

    donnybrook – If you are not going to bring him back, you have to come up with a replacement. Now that Beltran is not an option, who is that player?

    I’m crossing Ethier off your list of options, because they are essentially the same exact player.

  66. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:08 am

    LGY – That could be the funniest thing I’ve heard in 2011

  67. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 11:08 am

    NYYs have very few people that come through the system that walk, much. Even Jeter, outside of 1 or 2 years never walked much. Posada and Williams, maybe. However, unlike some of you, I don’t like on one or two numbers. I’ll take run production any time.

  68. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:10 am

    However, unlike some of you, I don’t like on one or two numbers. I’ll take run production any time.

    You don’t like one or two numbers. You like one number.

    ROFL :D is this guy serious?

  69. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 11:12 am

    My issue with Swisher is more about not really wanting to get involved in a long term deal with him after this year. He’s a good player and has been a great value for the Yankees up to this point and certainly is the best option they have currently.

    I would have maybe traded him if the return was good and signed Beltran to the deal he got from the Cards if that had been an option but that’s over now…..so it’s hard to imagine a situation where you deal him unless a team really wanted to over pay to get him…..like if the Indians wanted to work something for Masterson or something like that etc….which isn’t happening.

    I’d rather have Swisher than Ethier….Ethier is bad defensively and is brutal against lefties….like bad enough that he really shouldn’t play against them.

  70. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Is it that Swish gets a bum rap or just that the OF is the one area we can improve the team?

    The only reason people talk about trading Swish is because he’ll be a FA after this season and because we can’t move any of our infield contracts. It’s not about disrespect. Its actually pretty simple.

  71. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 11:13 am

    OK, daisy, what did Adam Dunn’s walks do for him and the White Sox in 2011?

  72. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:14 am

    GB7 – When you learn that one example never proved anything, i’ll answer you stupid questions.

  73. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:15 am

    There is a simple rule in baseball. If you don’t get on base, you can’t score runs. How you get on base is mostly irrelevant.

  74. 98NYY December 23rd, 2011 at 11:16 am

    I am glad the yanks held on to the prospects. It is nice to have a quiver full of arrows. One or two will come thru this season and we didn’t empty our stock pile on one big arrow.

  75. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 11:19 am

    It’s irrelevant according to you. He walked 75 times and scored 36 times. I’ll take the run production, no matter how it’s done. He’s hardly the one that draws walks and does nothing with them.

  76. blake December 23rd, 2011 at 11:21 am

    One reason I’d like them to maybe sign Cespedes is that he could be a cheaper and younger alternative to Swisher for next year…..it could be a bust and a total waste of money but for the 5 or 6 million he will get a year the Yankees should be able to afford to take that risk. They waste that much every year on 4th outfielders, LOOGY’s, etc…..

    It COULD wind up being a huge value and save a load of money over re-signing Swisher…….it at least gives you a potential alternative. They would have to believe in the hit tool though and that’s something that I or hardly anyone has enough info to accurately determine.

  77. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:21 am

    GB7 – Him scoring has no bearing on anything he did other than the fact he got on base. Someone else has to drive him in. This is like baseball 101. This is why we don’t look at run/rbi totals seriously… the batter doesn’t directly influence them outside of home runs.

  78. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:22 am

    GB7 – OBP is not just walks, are you just purposely being ignorant now? It would explain alot…

  79. DONNYBROOK December 23rd, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Cashman balked at dealing Swish and signing Beltran, due to the additional $3 Mill it woulda added to the payroll. As I said, better not deal him once the season starts, which = Cashman has put off a problem Now, and is gonna deal with it down the road. Penny wise, Pound foolish.

  80. Stoneburner December 23rd, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:21 am
    GB7 – Him scoring has no bearing on anything he did other than the fact he got on base. Someone else has to drive him in. This is like baseball 101. This is why we don’t look at run/rbi totals seriously… the batter doesn’t directly influence them outside of home runs.

    **************

    That is not entirely true when it comes to runs – a batter becomes a baserunner if on base. A more athletic, smart, and quick runner can influence runs – say by scoring from first on a double – or say stealing second and then getting batted in on a single – or a batter that can hit doubles or triples and score more easily on sacrificies. You cannot break things simply down into batting and that is it – it is the complete package.

    On another note – could someone please give me their first hand take of Andujiar?? Thanks in advance.

  81. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:26 am

    due to the additional $3 Mil

    Objection, heresay.

  82. Villa Nova-Ya December 23rd, 2011 at 11:26 am

    You can’t score if you DON’T get on base. So runs scored IS a big deal.

    Just like you can’t have an RBI if you don’t do something productive when someone is on base.

    I don’t understand the downplaying of those stats. I really do not.

    The name of the game is scoring runs (well, the name of the game is baseball, but…). If you are responsible in any way for a run being scored, you are doing what you are supposed to do.

  83. Stoneburner December 23rd, 2011 at 11:27 am

    DONNYBROOK December 23rd, 2011 at 11:24 am
    Cashman balked at dealing Swish and signing Beltran, due to the additional $3 Mill it woulda added to the payroll. As I said, better not deal him once the season starts, which = Cashman has put off a problem Now, and is gonna deal with it down the road. Penny wise, Pound foolish.

    ********

    I am not trusting Beltra’s health at this point. It also depends on what we could get for Swish. Plus we need to look for OF options that are more 3-4 year in nature that gives enough time for Santana and Williams to arrive. . . .

  84. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:29 am

    stoneburner – A more athletic, smart and quick runner would also probably steal bases, would you agree? Probably at a clip better than 4 SB’s in 5 seasons? If he was taking extra bases on a regular basis, this would reflect in his speed skills, of which he has none.

    There are ways to reference how many bases a player takes on different hits from different bases. BR has XBT% (extra bases taken). If Laird ever makes it to the majors we will be able to look them up.

    He will never make it to the majors with a sub .300 OBP. Not for this club anyway.

  85. kd December 23rd, 2011 at 11:32 am

    i really tend to agree with swisher.. they are a top offensive team, and montero is really going to help.

    and frankly, how many teams have a #5 as talented as noesi?

  86. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Villa – They are coincidental events. Runs/RBI are not being completely disregarded, they simply can’t be used to predict a players ability. they are significantly less important events than lots of other stats when it comes to prediction… like getting on base in the first place.

    A batter has no control over the batters before or after him getting on base. Would you agree? So the only thing he can control is getting himself on base. THe more batters you get on base, the less outs you make and as a result… the more runs you will score.

  87. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Ask Larry Bowa what he thinks of the over reliance of using sabermetrics when evaluating players.

  88. yanks 27 December 23rd, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Laird is just one opf those guys who finds ways to get on base, score runs, and drive in runs and more often than not, the teams he is on wins the game. He is a valuable commodity to have because of his production and low salary. You don’t think a team like Oakland or the White Sox would like to have his bat in the middle of the lineup?

  89. Stoneburner December 23rd, 2011 at 11:37 am

    kd December 23rd, 2011 at 11:32 am
    i really tend to agree with swisher.. they are a top offensive team, and montero is really going to help.

    and frankly, how many teams have a #5 as talented as noesi?

    *******

    Agree – the Montero addition is big IMO. I also think Noesi can be serviceable to becoming a nice player with the offense helping him through some tough spots. Plus I like the reserves in AAA – Warren, Phelps, Mitchell, Banuelos, and Betances – all who could factor into starting or reliever roles (w/ Banny and Dellin more longterm starting options). They have done a nice job in cultivating some depth that will keep prices down when they have something around 90-100 million committed to four players in a few seasons: Cano, Tex, A-Rod, and C.C.

  90. Stoneburner December 23rd, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Don’t know why Laird’s OBP went below .300 in AAA – had always been solid to very nice before then. Kid still has some talents to contribue in a utility way though. . . .

  91. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Ask Larry Bowa what he thinks of the over reliance of using sabermetrics when evaluating players

    ====================

    Getting on base isn’t a matter of sabermetrics. There’s no need for sabermetrics to explain that making outs is bad. At the AAA level, Laird has been an outmaking machine.

  92. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Ask Larry Bowa

    GB7… There is nothing “sabermteric” about anything I just said. You can’t understand simple logical concepts.

  93. LGY December 23rd, 2011 at 11:41 am

    You don’t think a team like Oakland or the White Sox would like to have his bat in the middle of the lineup??

    ——–

    No.

  94. jacksquat December 23rd, 2011 at 11:41 am

    There is no over anything here. No one expects him to walk like Dunn or even mentioned Dunn. But there is no denying that a .288 obp is terrible, horrible. Maybe the Royals would be interested, as they seem to like those types, which is one big reason they suck.

  95. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 11:43 am

    You don’t think a team like Oakland or the White Sox would like to have his bat in the middle of the lineup?

    ===========================

    Not on their worst day.

  96. kd December 23rd, 2011 at 11:52 am

    i think it’s time to start the cano extension process. it might save the yankees a little money, and avoid the issues of cano and free agency.

    he’s young, in his prime, and the best player on the team. he’s signed for one more season and an option at 14 and 15 million.

    would 6/120 get it done? 7/140?

    would hate to see him as a free agent, he might get a 10 year deal from the angles or somthing

  97. dogface December 23rd, 2011 at 11:55 am

    kd:

    I think Cano will be able to command more than $20M per season. I think you’re looking at more like 6/$135M or 7/$160

  98. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2011 at 11:56 am

    “i think it’s time to start the cano extension process.”

    I’m the only one (besides Erin) but I’d take Cano on 10 years if he signs it this year. He’d be 38 by the end of it? I’d do it in a heartbeat.

  99. GreenBeret7 December 23rd, 2011 at 11:56 am

    They were whining about Laird not walking. I brought up a guy who walked and didn’t produce crap. Just like Dunn, Laird’s season was a downer when comparing it to his other 3 years in baseball.

  100. Shame Spencer December 23rd, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Arrow thingy ——->

  101. Ys Guy December 23rd, 2011 at 11:57 am

    i love carlos beltran. and im glad he’s on the cardinals. but there is no way i would have wanted to move swisher out and sign beltran. i dont trust beltran’s knee to hold up a full season. I can imagine how cashman would get roasted if they moved out swisher and then beltran broke down and they ended up with colin curtis in RF. i don’t buy that swisher is going to bring you back a #2 SP without a couple of the big 3 going with him, so he likely would only have brought back some depth at a position that’s already covered. jmo.

    the cardinals have a big hole in their offense to fill and if they arent going to go get a fielder type then they have to take a chance on a guy like beltran. i hope it works out for them and carlos has a great year, but i’m also glad that the yankees arent in the position to have to take that kind of risk.

  102. Wave Your Hat December 23rd, 2011 at 11:57 am

    I’m very happy that the Sox did not manage to get either Beltran or Gonzalez.
    Surprised, but happy.

    Neither the Yanks or the Sox have made any big moves. The times they are a’changing.

  103. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    GB7 – They were complaining about it because… he doesn’t walk.

    Laird has a 3% walk rate in AAA so far.

    3%.

    That is monumentally bad.

    A good walk rate can help counteract a low batting average. Laird can’t cover up anything, he doesnt hit for average and he doesn’t walk. He’s just bad.

  104. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Sorry I.D., but the most underrated stat in baseball is runs and the most overrated is OBP.

    Runs and RBI are measures of the effectiveness of OBP and SLG. the team with the higher OBP or SLG might win most of the time, but the team with the most RUNS wins ALL the time.

    No stat exists in a vacuum. Just as Runs and RBI are impacted by teammates, so too are OBP and SLG. A speedy base runner helps the hitter with bigger holes in the infield, more fastballs and so on. A bad hitter behind you helps you draw more walks, thus helping your OBP.

    A high OBP is desirable, of course as is a high SLG, OPS etc. But a high OBP is far more valuable with Rickey Henderson than it is with Jason Giambi.

    Can you understand that logic?

  105. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Also, Dunn had a sub-.300 OBP… the actual reason he “didn’t produce crap” (i would argue that he did produce “crap” hehe)… Dunn batted .150 last year, the fact that he can walk raised his OBP almost 150 points and is the only reason he wasn’t outright benched.

  106. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    86w – Runs and RBi’s are measures of TEAM effectiveness, very little to do with the individual player.

    Fact: You can’t score runs or drive them in if you don’t get yourself on base.

  107. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Fact you can drive in runs with sac flies, ground outs and bunts

  108. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    If you honestly think runs and RBI have “very little to do with the individual player” you have totally exposed yourself as a stat geek who knows next to nothing about the game.

  109. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Fact you can drive in runs with sac flies, ground outs and bunts

    Fact: You can’t sac in runs if someone didn’t get on base before you.

    Seriously, why are you fighting this at all?

    You have exposed yourself as nonsense, how do you like that?

  110. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    I wasn’t looking for your approval on my level of understanding of baseball, which is miles ahead of yours apparently.

  111. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    You are the one who wrote:

    “You can’t score runs or drive them in if you don’t get yourself on base”, which is absolutely 100 percent untrue.

    I simply pointed out how you can drive in runs without getting on base.

    You can also score runs without “getting yourself on base” if you reach on an error or reach on a fielder’s choice, both of which result in a .000 OBP.

    Now do you understand or do you need pictures?

  112. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Congrats, you found a pinhole in one statement and you can score runs with sac flies. That doesn’t change any bit of my premise that runs and RBI’s can’t be used to predict a players performance, you must use the underlying stats which revolve around the individual players ability to get on base.

    This research has been done, if you cared you would go read it. I don’t have to prove anything to you. Especially with your attitude.

  113. Irreverent Discourse December 23rd, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Back to the point that was actually brought up… Laird’s “production” is a result of the players around him, who are all contributing to his runs and RBi totals.

    If Laird got on base more, he likely would score more runs and collect more RBI’s.

    If the rest of Laird’s team didn’t get on base ever, his “production” would suffer through no fault of his own.

  114. 86w183 December 23rd, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Just to ease the rhetoric my point was that you have to use ALL stats and factor in your own judgment in order to reach conclusions.

    A high OBP doesn’t predict future productivity any more than high RBI totals.

    A high OBP, SLG, OPS are good measures of an individual’s performance. High Run totals and RBI totals indicate the effectiveness of an individual’s performance.

    No player performs in a vacuum and all stats are at least somewhat related to teammates’ abilities/performances.

    Curtis Granderson lead the AL in runs scored but was not in the top 10 in OBP.

    Kasey Kotchman, Alex Avila and Victor Martinez were in the top 10 in OBP.

    Sorry it got so snarky… time to go, Merry Christmas.


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