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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Happy Holidays from the LoHud Yankees Blog

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 25, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

For those of you celebrating Christmas today, I hope you’re having a great one surrounded by friends and family and egg nog. And of course, I hope you got exactly what you wanted (if you wanted Albert Pujols under the tree, you might have been disappointed).

Whatever you’re celebrating, enjoy it, and everyone here at the LoHud Yankees Blog is wishing you a wonderful holiday season. So are the Yankees. 

As for me, I’m just now enjoying the first leg of a three-stop holiday tour of North Carolina, Missouri and Michigan. I’m off next week, so some of the familiar names from The Journal News will be manning the blog through what is almost always a slow week in baseball.

I’ll see you all in the new year. Less than two months until pitchers and catchers…

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

Associated Press photo

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1,422 Responses to “Happy Holidays from the LoHud Yankees Blog”

  1. Tom in N.J. December 25th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Happy Christmas!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIITo8l7UnA

  2. pat December 25th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Merry and Happy to All.

  3. LGY December 25th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Merry Christmas Lohudders!

    Let’s all come together on this holiday and hope to find KURODA and a Knicks victory under the tree.

  4. DONNYBROOK December 25th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Very long Winter for Yankee fans after a Rd1 exit. Extra long when Cashman does little to nothing to improve the team. You guys can complain about the offense vs Detroit all ya want, but if CC does what an Ace is paid to do, the Yanks advance. I expect the offense in 2012 to be even better with a healthy A-Rod, continued emergence of Cano, and Gardner continuing what he showed vs. Detroit. SP will be OK till July 31, when Yanks will add a 2 Slot caliber SP. Some of you feel there will be more teams still in play come July 31 due to the extra Wild Card, but GM’s are realists and aint gonna hang in there for a Possible 1 game Playoff. In fact, that “more teams” scenario is truer currently as we saw with the Nats and Gio. SP’s Will be available come July. Always have, always will. The Yanks actually got lucky when Texas grabbed Darvish. Had Toronto got that guy, the Yanks AL East dominance woulda been in serious jeopardy. That’s the team to watch. Tampa just aint got the offense over 162 to do it.
    Enjoy whatever you choose to celebrate this day. I’ll mind the store in your absence.

  5. RhapsodyInBlue December 25th, 2011 at 10:40 am

    Merry Christmas all.

    Great job on the cookies Tricia!

  6. Yanksgal07 December 25th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and a very Happy Holidays to everyone. I hope it’s filled with Love, Peace & Happiness. If you are visiting family and friends I hope you have a safe journey.

    Thank you Chad and Co. for all the great work on this blog. I read it every day and truly appreciate it.

    Enjoy the Holidays and just think …we are that much closer to Spring Training …. :o)

    Go Yankees 2012 !!!

  7. ericns1 December 25th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Happy Holidays to all!

  8. Yanksgal07 December 25th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    P.S. …the above picture is the sight I see everyday from my office window…it’s absolutely stunning in person. I’m fortunate to work right across the street from Rock Center.

    Go Yankees 2012 !!!

  9. austinmac December 25th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Donneybrook,

    I am glad you are holding down the fort except their will not likely be much pitching available at the deadline that Cashman will be ready to trade the farm for. It will be no cheaper then.

    Add pitcher now or go with what they have for the year. Those are the real options. The trade deadline isn’t what it used to be with the Yankees formerly willing to pick up contracts.

  10. DONNYBROOK December 25th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    For those of you laying around lookin’ for some entertainment. Check out the Ken Burns Baseball running on MLB Network. Great and informative. It starts at 1.00 PM EST, and is picking up at about WW ll. Gotta be a lotta Joe D.

  11. DONNYBROOK December 25th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    -austinmac-
    Trade deadline becomes More important every season. Texas and Cards proved that last year. The herd mentality in Baseball is legendary, and these Brama’s will not disappoint. I just wish everyone would forget about King Felix. The guy will Only have 2 yrs of control following the 2012 season, and the Seattle GM is an A-Hole anyway.

  12. austinmac December 25th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Donneybrook,

    I agree on Felix. It is not happening, and by the time he is available I wonder what he will have left. I noted a small, but noticeable, decline in his stuff last year.

    Those same players were available to the Yankees last July. They opted not to act as they believed the prices as too high. I thought it was a mistake then. As you pointed out the two World Series participants didn’t sit back.

    Doing nothing is not a plan for last year or this. They need a no. 2 starter and a good back up outfielder. If they go with Maxwell and Dickerson, they better not have any injuries.

  13. Stoneburner December 25th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Excited for upcoming season – Montero should be able to establish himself in 2012 in the lineup while Manny B gets his innings and work in at AAA – and then hopefully he can join the big league staff in 2013. Those two are untouchables at this point – b/c they are cost effective and have great ceilings to be effective contributors to the team. As for trades – everyone else is touchable – but the rotation appears it is what is for the time being – until something can be done about A.J. – or Hughes/Garcia demonstrate that they are unable to hold down one of the spots (which we will not know until ST or April/May/June.

  14. Giuseppe Franco December 25th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Toronto has supposedly been the next up and coming team for the last 4-5 years yet they’ve finished in 4th place in each of those seasons. And a couple of those seasons were with Roy Halladay fronting the rotation.

    With or without Darvish, Toronto would have/will likely finished the 2012 season the same – in 4th place – because there are clearly three teams in the AL East that are better than the Jays.

    So forgive me if I’m not exactly terrified of the “up and coming Blue Jays.”

  15. jacksquat December 25th, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Jorge Posada Drawing Interest

    By Zach Links [December 24 at 3:34pm CST]

    3:34pm: The Rays’ interest in Posada isn’t strong, says Marc Topkin of the St. Petersburg Times. According to Topkin, Posada figures to be, at best, among the club’s fallback options if other moves don’t go as planned.

    11:38am: Recently, we learned that Jorge Posada would like to continue playing in 2012 if he can find the right situation. There appears to be interest in the veteran as the Rays, Orioles, and Phillies have inquired on Posada, the catcher’s father told Javier Maymi of ESPNDeportes.com (Spanish link).

    Sources told Maymi that the Rays are interested in exploring the possibility of signing Posada as a reserve first baseman, designated hitter, and backup to Jose Molina. The Rays already have Jose Lobaton and Robinson Chirinos to support Molina and even though both catchers suffered injuries over the winter, they are expected to be fine heading into Spring Training.

    The Phillies would also be a curious fit for Posada with Jim Thome already providing a power bat against right-handed pitching. As for the Orioles, they reportedly didn’t have much interest in Posada a month ago as they were seeking someone who could catch every day if necessary.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....erest.html

  16. blake December 25th, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Merry christmas to everyone! I’ve been watching my son play with the box from the expensive toy he just got for like an hour now :)

  17. austinmac December 25th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Very funny Blake. It has happened to us all. Just wait until you buy a new frig. That is really a fun box.

  18. blake December 25th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Mac,

    I can imagine……instant fort

  19. grouchonyy December 25th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    The attacks on Cashman here all work on the assumption that Cashman has financial flexibility, and won’t use it. This clearly makes little sense since it’s not his money. If anything, the lack of trades could be a reason for attack but which players could the Yankees have gotten that would have cost an acceptable (to critics) package?
    As a fan, I’d like to see something done what with dominos falling all over the place, but not here. As a realist, I agree that moves for their own sake are usually bad ones. If Hal Steinbrenner is interested in winning, we’ll find out at some point. After the Soriano fiasco of last off-season, I hope Cashman gets to make the move, not Randy Levine or whoever else whispers in Hal’s ear.

  20. 86w183 December 25th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all LoHudders!!

    Looking forward to 2012, like I do every year. Wanting to see THE New York Yankees win the division, make key acquisitions and take to the field in the post season.

    I see no reason not to expect all of the above to take place this season.

    My guess is Cashman has not done anything major because he hasn’t seen a player price tag (either $$ or trade prospects) that he likes very much. I’m content with this team heading into spring training and I’m sure Cashman is too. If Roy Oswalt wants to come to NYC on a Garcia-type one year deal I’m sure Cashman would take him… problem is he reportedly wants twice as much and he wasn’t any better than Freddie last year.

  21. ron December 25th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    There are no pitchers now to add that are worth it.

    Cashman will trade top prospects for elite pitchers,but there are none available.

    You do not trade great pitchers,unless you are going to lose them,for whatever reason.
    I also agree about toronto.They have the richest owners on the planet.
    They do not bring in the revenues,asa team that the yankees do,but their owners wealth make our ownerslook middle class.

    Our advantage is,the yankeesas a teab bring in tons of money that no other team can come close to.

    400-600 million in revenues is absolutely insane.
    We can have a 300 million dollar payroll,and still make over 100 million in revenues,maybe a lot more.

    Cashman is in a position with one of the best teams in the majors,a great farm system,loaded with pitching,a set of minor league outfielders emerging,some interesting infield prospects.
    We have to go with what we have,and trade for a pitcher if it makes sense.

    If not,we try to sign a fa pitcher.

  22. disco stu December 25th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Merry Christmas to one and all and best wishes for a happy and healthy New Year …

    I dont know about the rest of you, but I have definitely taken notice of all the Tweets that our old friend Joba Chamberlain has been making. He seems like a man who, after a lot recent trials and tribulations (both personally and professionally) has found a new sense of purpose, appreciation, and perspective – at times, almost zen-like.

    I am rooting hard for Joba to make it all the way back and return to the fold in 2012.

  23. ron December 25th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    The thing with the jays is,if the owners wan’t to make a run of it,and have an opportunity to add the right players,their owners can significantly add tons of payroll,at least for a few years,if they wan’t to.

  24. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 25th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    To all of you who appreciated my cookies, thank you! It is really an act of love every year. And I promise to send some to those of you who want some – next Christmas of course! It will give me a year to figure out how to pack them so they don’t all fall apart!!!

    The only one not eligible for the cookies is our friend who decided to hack into my account in order to leave an ugly message

  25. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 25th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    continued

    pretending the message came from me. So I suspended the comment section. Oh well, some thiings will never change!

    *********

    I wish you all a day filled with love and peace. Last Christmas I had a very heavy heart but I was surrounded by people who love me. I don’t think there’s a greater Christmas gift. And for anyone who isn’t feeling very loved at the moment, believe me I have more than enough to share. Feel loved, because you are.

    Last night I prayed for snow, even a small dusting. There was no snow in our forecast. Today while I was on my way to mass, it was snowing. Miracles do happen all the time. You just have to believe!!!

    I believe #28 is on its way.

    Merry Christmas Yankee fans.

    :)

    (If you didn’t get to see my cookies and want to, here they are: http://public.fotki.com/trisha.....s_cookies/ . If you don’t care to look at them, my feelings won’t be hurt! )

  26. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Merry Christmas everyone

  27. Joe from Long Island December 25th, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Disco stu – good observation about Joba. Here’s hoping we’re both right.

    Have a happy Christmas day

  28. kd December 25th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Merry Christmas LoHuders!

    Hope everyone is having a happy and healthy day.

  29. Trigeminal Neuralgia Yank December 25th, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    I’m w you guys , a healthy physically and mentally Joba is FUN to watch,, I have a feeling he’s gonna be at his best when he’s back.
    Nice cookies Trish!
    Merry holiday to all!

  30. kd December 25th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    just my gut feeling, but i agree on the joba thoughts. maybe he was a tad bit immature when he first came up, seems like he’s into securing his legacy at this point.

    maybe he takes over for mo and spends 10 years as a closer. he’s a better pitcher than pap, madson, etc.

    no reason he can’t still aim for cooperstown

  31. tomingeorgia December 25th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Merry Christmas! Just finished assembling and calibrating my big present, a weather station. Outside temp: 49.2 degrees F, humidity 63%, barometer 30.27 and falling, rainfall .002 inches in the last hour, winds: calm.

    Any body else get a neat present?

  32. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    Trisha,

    The cookies really did look great, but, I discovered that licking the pictures didn’t help much. All I tasted was the dust on the screen.

  33. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    I’m afraid that if you’re hoping to see Chamberlain anytime soon after the season opens, you may be disappointed. Look for late june or early July at the soonest. he had surgery in the middle of June. Nobody has ever pitched in a game 9 months after surgery.

  34. Giuseppe Franco December 25th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    I also tend to agree about Joba and his mindset these days.

    While I’m not exactly a professional athlete making the kind of money Joba does, but coming down with my illness a couple of years back and lying in a hospital bed for six months did do wonders to change my attitude about living a much healthier lifestyle.

    Implementing those changes and working my ass off at the gym 5 days a week has transformed myself into the best shape of my life.

    And I didn’t have the extra incentive that Joba does to potentially earn millions of dollars.

    Once he does return to action the rest of his body will be in excellent shape.

  35. austinmac December 25th, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Trisha,

    Those are some great looking cookies. Count me in for a delivery next year.

    Merry Christmas to you. I did get my wife a Star of David cookie cutter for Christmas. Confusing but good.

  36. ron December 25th, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Tj surgery has come a long way since tj had the first surgery in 1974 i believe it was.

    They had to completely cut open his elbow.
    Now an incision is used.
    Also a lot of players didn’t return to sports because when performing the surgery,they had to move the ulnar nerve to see the elbow,causing nerve damage.
    Now they work around the nerve.

  37. ron December 25th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Also,hopefully joba’s mechanics get cleaner while rehabbing.

    Here is a typical rehab program:

    0-7 Days: Splint is worn, squeeze a soft ball.

    1-4 Weeks: Discontinue splint; sling worn for one more week; gradually achieve full range of motion.

    1-2 Months: Full range of motion at elbow, wrist, forearm, shoulder; lightweights for forearm exercises.

    2-3 Months: Continue lower body conditioning program; continue exercises for upper extremities, including rotator cuff.

    3-4 Months: Easy tossing (no wind-up), 25-30 throws building up to 70.

    4-5 Months: Continue throwing program with easy wind-up, 20-50 feet, 10-40 throws.

    5-6 Months: Throwing program extends to 60 feet at half-speed.

    6-7 Months: Gradually increase distance to 150 feet.

    7-8 Months: Progress to a mound at half- to three-quarters speed, using proper body mechanics (stay on top of the ball, keep elbow up, throw over the top, follow through with the arm and trunk).

    9-10 Months: Simulate game situations.

    10-12 Months: Begin normal routine and make appropriate rehab starts.

    http://redlegsbaseball.blogspo.....tommy.html

  38. jacksquat December 25th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Extension Candidate: Matt Cain

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-cain.html

    So if both Cain and Hamels get contract extensions, then what? Hope Nova or Hughes become a #2?

  39. jacksquat December 25th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    oops, sorry about all bold

  40. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    # jacksquat December 25th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Extension Candidate: Matt Cain

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/…..-cain.html

    So if both Cain and Hamels get contract extensions, then what? Hope Nova or Hughes become a #2?

    ———————————

    That’s pretty much all they can do. Pitchers are getting locked up more than ever.

  41. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Strasburg had surgery on the 1st of September of 2010. His next game was on 6 September of 2011. That’s as quick as anybody has returned. You figure it out.

  42. MTU December 25th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Hope Santa was good to all of you.

    Peace, Health, and Happiness in the coming year.

  43. DSJ December 25th, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Better to inject the cookie dough right into your thighs.

  44. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    DSJ December 25th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
    Better to inject the cookie dough right into your thighs.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    First hand experience, huh?

  45. DSJ December 25th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Right. God decided to make it snow just because you prayed. Some people’s narcissism knows no bounds.

  46. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Why can’t you just take the day off so others can enjoy this place without your crap?

  47. Ruby Red Sock December 25th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Poor ole’ gb, no life, no friends, no family, so sad.

  48. DONNYBROOK December 25th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    If the rumors are true that the Jays bid Over $50 Mill for Darvish, you know their ownership is serious about winning NOW. The Angels really let ‘em off the hook with that Wells deal, and now they are ready to wheel-n-deal. I’ve always been partial to keeping the World Series Championship here in the USA, whether it’s the Yanks wearing the crown or not. Well, with the exception of Boston.

    – CURRENT 2012 AL EAST PROJECTED STANDINGS -

    (1) NEW YORK YANKEES – 2011 offense intact +Montero full time. SP currently adequate for the job
    (2) TORONTO B\JAYS – 1 SP + 1 Stick, and you better look out. July 31 looms large for Jays.
    (3) TAMPA RAYS – Offense = Achilles heal.
    (4) BOSTON R\SOX – Still reeling from last season and last 2 seasons. Make mine Original Recipe.
    (5) BALTIMORE O’s – Buck will wear out his welcome before this team even gets a Playoff whiff.

  49. DSJ December 25th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Ah those glory days of napalm and death.

  50. exiledintampa December 25th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    I haven’t posted here in over a year but, I read most everything posted here every day. Today I’m really down in the dumps and lonely beyond belief. Living alone and out of work in Tampa is a living hell. I keep coming back here looking for “Yankee’s talk” to cheer me up. But there are trolls even today with nothing better to do but criticize others for having hope and good cheer on Christmas. GB7 glad you’re still here to tell that negative POS we don’t need him here. Can’t wait for Feb 22 when pitchers and catchers voluntarily report. Till then, keep talking Yankee Baseball. It does more than I can tell you for my depression. THANKS

  51. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Exiled,

    The train to Tampa in rolling into town and will be leaving Grand Central shortly. Once the train gets smoking down the tracks, it ain’t stopping until it pulls up at “The Canyon Of Heroes”.

  52. exiledintampa December 25th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Thanks GB7 but even if I took the “train” I’d have no money or place to stay when I got there. I got nothing for Christmas so I bought myself a present. A “KIA” bracelet with my brothers name on it. Killed 7/2/67. Of course with my luck it’s delayed in shipment till 12/28. Wore the last one I had for 31 years till it broke about 6 months ago.

  53. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Hopefully things improve for you exiled. My heart goes out to you especially during this time of the yr

  54. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Exiled,

    Your brother would be proud that you still honor him and the others. Things will get better. Hope you have the best of times in 2012 and beyond.

  55. Carlo December 25th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Merry christmas to everyone.

  56. joeman December 25th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Cain would be a great add to this team

  57. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Too bad he’ll probably sign an extension.

  58. kd December 25th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    i would add cain in a heartbeat. he struggled when he first came up. he learned how to pitch, not throw. something aj could learn.

    he’s got all the tools, and is worth a lee/cc type deal.

    maybe a little more reliable than hamels going forward.

  59. Felix Unger December 25th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    Tis the season, keep dreaming, the Giants aren’t letting go of Cain nor are the Phils letting go of Hamels. SP is in high demand and Cashman has already shown he is not willing to cave to exorbitant demands in trade talks.

    Why would anyone think these quality SP’s will just fall into the NYY’s laps ??

  60. Your Worst Nightmare December 25th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    The backbone of SF is pitching, do the Yanks have some type of unknown lure to every decent player that may become available ? ? ?

    Answer…………….NO.

  61. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Yanks have more reason to hope for good things to happen than the Red Sox and Mets do combined. You couldn’t combine the best of both the Red Sox and Mets and be better than the 2012 Yankees.

  62. Triple Short of a Cycle December 25th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    The only thing missing from that post game interaction yesterday was Brandon Jacobs punching that fat turd in the face

  63. ron December 25th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    exiledintampa :

    The depression & sadness,won’t last forever.
    You just have to believe.

    It’s a beautiful world,if you wan’t it to be.

    Merry xmas

  64. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    i wish the giants had acted yesterday afternoon more like a team with much more to do than they acted, which was like a team that already accomplished something.

  65. randy l. December 25th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    merry christmas gb7

    i’m up here in maine, but don’t tell maine yankee.

    he might invite me to go moose hunting or something

  66. Triple Short of a Cycle December 25th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    i wish the giants had acted yesterday afternoon more like a team with much more to do than they acted, which was like a team that already accomplished something.

    —————————————————-

    well that is sports today for you. I’m still happy that fat pig got what was coming to him.

  67. ron December 25th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    If cj wilson was a few yrs younger,he would have been perfect.
    Great era,whip,baa,hits per innings,and in the al.

    15 million a yr is not a lot of money for a better than good pitcher.

    A rotation of

    cc
    wilson
    nova
    hughes
    burnett
    garcia
    noesi is a very good,deep rotation.
    Chancesare both cain & hamels are extended,and no teams trade ace pitchers.

  68. kd December 25th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    gb7 at 6:32 : spot on. it’s a great time to be a yankee fan.

    you could probably say the same about the farms as well

    that being said, do you sign cain or hamels?

  69. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    randy l. December 25th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
    merry christmas gb7

    i’m up here in maine, but don’t tell maine yankee.

    he might invite me to go moose hunting or something

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Randy,

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and your family and “friend(s)”. What are you doing in Maine with all of those whacked out gun toters?

    As far as worrying about Maine yankee, don’t worry. He couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat. Go out and pet some wild moose without fear. (Of course, you have something better than a wild moose…you have Nurse Karloff).

  70. GreenBeret7 December 25th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    KD,

    Down on the farm, things are looking pretty good, I’m not sure how to judge the AAA team though. It’s the pitching that will carry that team. The hitting will be only what Vazquez, Romine, Laird and Joseph gives them. unless Maxwell is still there.

  71. ron December 25th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Joba Update: Two weeks of rest following bullpens
    By Mike Axisa
    Via the man himself, Joba Chamberlain has been throwing bullpen sessions for a few weeks now and his arm is feeling great following Tommy John surgery. The plan now is to rest for two weeks, then resume throwing after the new year. Joba seems to be just a bit ahead of schedule based on Mike Dodd’s classic TJS article, and he’ll likely start throwing breaking balls very soon. Maybe the Yankees will get him back in late-May rather than mid-June, but I’d rather get him back in mid-August if meant moving him back into the rotation…

  72. ron December 25th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    The yankees are making a huge mistake by not putting joba back in the rotation,considering they are leaving hughes there,and joba has better pitches,with more developed offspeed pitches,and more of a selection.

  73. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    ill take green bay -13.5. hell, id take gb -20.5 tonight…

  74. Your Worst Nightmare December 25th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    * Joba will need to be stretched out after his rehab.

    * Joba won’t be able to pitch until mid season.

    * Cashman has said dozens of times that Joba is a RP now.

    * Lots of young talent at AAA which is in part why there have been no trades. (Cashman doesn’t want to give it up) as well as asking prices are sky high.

    So what’s changed ? ? ? Link please to new info. from Yankee brass ? ?

  75. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    i dont spend that much time worrrying about what they are going to do with joba. he’s good but doesnt blow me away no matter what they do with him. put him whereever you need him whenever he’s ready to come back.

  76. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    rogers shreds the bear’s D. 7-0 already.

  77. Your Worst Nightmare December 25th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Yes. He will need to reestablish his role again after his rehab is complete. Let him earn his keep and see where it goes. SP this year ?…………..LMAO !

  78. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    packers O stalls and a puntfest breaks out…

  79. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    # Your Worst Nightmare December 25th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    * Joba will need to be stretched out after his rehab.

    Which is perfect because he can take his time and actually to pitch as a starter

    * Joba won’t be able to pitch until mid season.

    Again this is a good thing not a bad thing because there isn’t a need for him now

    * Cashman has said dozens of times that Joba is a RP now.

    Doesn’t mean he’s right. Cashman has improved the farm but when it comes to pitching it’s one area he still has trouble with.

    * Lots of young talent at AAA which is in part why there have been no trades. (Cashman doesn’t want to give it up) as well as asking prices are sky high.

    Another good thing because if he was serviceable as a starter you could deal some of the excess pitching or continue to develop and not rush them

    So what’s changed ? ? ? Link please to new info. from Yankee brass ? ?

    What’s changed well once again they need starting pitchers. Injuries and ineffectiveness are going to occur at certain points of the season. He is strengthening his arm and seems to be more dedicated than ever. They can add Joba to the depth they already have. There is nothing to lose and something to gain. But I guess it’s better to keep him as a 5th inning guy

  80. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    # ron December 25th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    The yankees are making a huge mistake by not putting joba back in the rotation,considering they are leaving hughes there,and joba has better pitches,with more developed offspeed pitches,and more of a selection.

    ———————————————-

    Good point my question is this What’s the difference between Joba and Hughes? Why is it that one gets to start while the other is banished to the pen?

  81. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    the yankees have enough starters, they need a really good starter, a #2. i dont care if they use joba as a starter or out of the bp, but he isn’t a #2 and this season you can’t expect him to even be a #3. they have plenty of other guys available to fill #4/5/6. so starting this year really isn’t going to fill any holes they may have. just get him healthy and throwing regularly and then figure out if he’s needed in the BP.

  82. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    arguing that cashman may be wrong doesn’t do you any good, he’s the guy who makes the decisions and that isn’t going to change this season.

  83. kd December 25th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    does joba want to be a starter? or maybe he realizes that his arm can’t hold up for 200+ innings a year, maybe 75 is better for his long term career

  84. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    # Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    arguing that cashman may be wrong doesn’t do you any good, he’s the guy who makes the decisions and that isn’t going to change this season.

    ——————————————

    Which is cause for concern since he’s in charge of the B’s.

  85. CompassRosy December 25th, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    packers O stalls and a puntfest breaks out…

    ==========

    You were saying?

    :)

  86. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    well, i was saying i’d lay 20.5 on the pack also…looking good.

  87. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    # kd December 25th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    does joba want to be a starter? or maybe he realizes that his arm can’t hold up for 200+ innings a year, maybe 75 is better for his long term career

    —————————

    Good question I guess we’ll see in a couple of yrs when he is up for free agency. If you were his agent wouldn’t you tell him leave and go somewhere to get a chance to start. The financial possibilities are better instead of being an extra arm out of the pen. Even if he never reaches CC type money he can still be well off as a starter.

  88. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    im not concerned about cashman, and im not concerned about joba. joba’s just too mediocre to be worth half the constant comment he gets here.

  89. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    I changed the channel when it was 14-10 now it’s 35-10 what happened lol

  90. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    # Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    im not concerned about cashman, and im not concerned about joba. joba’s just too mediocre to be worth half the constant comment he gets here.

    —————————————–

    So why wasn’t he in the trade for Haren?

  91. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    put him in a trade, don’t put him in a trade, whatever. i can’t believe how much chatter he churns up compared to his contribution. when he’s on the mound i root for him but he won’t be for 6 months.

  92. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    # Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    put him in a trade, don’t put him in a trade, whatever. i can’t believe how much chatter he churns up compared to his contribution. when he’s on the mound i root for him but he won’t be for 6 months.

    —————————–

    The only reason he’s talked about is because they f’d up a promising arm from day 1. And for whatever reason are reluctant to give him another shot. Cashman clams “his stuff plays better in the pen” Well so does Phil but he’s still starting.

  93. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    nobody has any way of knowing what caused any pitcher’s injury other than it was caused by the unnatural act of pitching.

    As for his head, i’d say the increadible hype and adoration he got before he did anything had alot to do with that. jmo

  94. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    # Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    nobody has any way of knowing what caused any pitcher’s injury other than it was caused by the unnatural act of pitching.

    As for his head, i’d say the increadible hype and adoration he got before he did anything had alot to do with that. jmo

    ———————————

    True but I think it’s fair to say the constant switching of his role played a role in it. Hughes had a big jump in innings it’s fair to say that could have been a reason why he experienced a dead arm period.

    “As for his head, i’d say the increadible hype and adoration he got before he did anything had alot to do with that. jmo”

    Who mentioned anything about is head?

  95. Ys Guy December 25th, 2011 at 11:12 pm

    plenty of guys get switched back and forth. it used to be the normal way of developing pitchers.

    i mentioned his head because i think theres a legitimate question whether his problems are more between his ears than anything.

  96. Against All Odds December 25th, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    plenty of guys get switched back and forth. it used to be the normal way of developing pitchers.

    i mentioned his head because i think theres a legitimate question whether his problems are more between his ears than anything.
    ———————————————-

    Some thing the Yankees need more help in perfecting. Nolan Ryan seems to have a good grip on it.

    Fair enough but it’s probably a combination of everything. The early hype going to his head, getting injured but not bouncing back immediately, seeing his stuff diminish, losing confidence in himself, etc.

  97. ron December 26th, 2011 at 12:06 am

    Joba’s arm broke in the pen,and you are questioning him him holding up for 200 innings.
    The yankees have not groomed an ace since way before pettitte,many,many years ago.

    Hughes probably never sniffs a number 2.
    You give every pitcher with enough pitches every single chance to start,til that said pitcher proves he can’t be a starting pitcher,like mo.

    You do not guess at it & say i think or maybe.
    Players have been proving experts wrong for many,many years.

    Cashman also made a big mistake by not including hughes in the trade,instead of kennedy,and don’t tell me that’s ok because we got granderson,etc…,because arizona would of gladly taken hughes instead.He was a much better prospect at the time.

    Kennedy in the nl pitched half of his games in a very hitter friendly park also.

  98. Against All Odds December 26th, 2011 at 12:09 am

    Not sure if he should have put Hughes in the deal instead of Kennedy. Hughes was coming off a great yr in the pen.

  99. ron December 26th, 2011 at 12:19 am

    I understand it would of been hard to put hughes in the deal,but the yankees got it wrong,simple as that,and i’m sure cashman would take kennedy now,over hughes.

    There is little value with joba in the pen,unless he replaces mo.

  100. Against All Odds December 26th, 2011 at 12:24 am

    I agree on the part about Joba.

    Not sure if Cashman regrets trading Kennedy instead of Hughes. IPK netted us a MVP candidate and Brian has a lot invested in Hughes. He truly believes Phil is going to have a big yr.

  101. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 12:37 am

    •Agent Scott Boras, who negotiated Daisuke Matsuzaka’s six-year, $52MM deal in 2006, is no fan of the Japanese posting system, Silverman writes. Boras says that the actual talks with Boston weren’t unpleasant, but he would have preferred to see his client choose between other cities that might have fit him better.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Of course, Boras’ dislike of the posting system has nothing to do with a lower commission for himself or anything.

  102. ron December 26th, 2011 at 12:44 am

    You are insane if you think cashman does not regret trading kennedy,instead of hughes.

    Also if hughes replaces kennedy in that trade,we have our number 2 pitcher now.
    Now if hughes developes into a kennedy or better,great.

    Hughes has to develope his offspeed pitches better or he will never catch kennedy.

  103. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 12:45 am

    The only reason the yankees were able to draft Chamberlain in the first place was because of his history of arm injuries in college and before. They knew it was going to happen. Figuring out when ws the unknown.

    Cashman made the final decision on putting Chamberlain, but, that was based on imput from the medical doctors and the entire organization. Let’s not pretend Cashman pulled that decision out of his behind.

    Back to “they should trade Hughes” again?

  104. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 1:24 am

    ron December 26th, 2011 at 12:44 am

    Cashman’s crystal ball must have been foggy, not allowing him to see into the future that IPK was going to win 20 for AZ. It’s always easier to say what if after the fact.

  105. MikeD December 26th, 2011 at 2:47 am

    Joba injured his arm in August 2008 in a game he started in Texas. His injury had nothing to do with how the Yankees were using him then, or after. He ducked to avoid a throw from Ivan Rodriguez, falling to the ground and jamming his right shoulder. He threw a couple more pitches and then the Yankees immediately shut him down. He lost three mph on his fastball that has never returned. Out of the pen in 2007 and early 2008, he used to throw 98 mph, touching 100 mph, where now he throws 94/95, ocassionally touching 96 or so. As a starter, he used to throw 95/96 up until the injury in August 2008, where after the injury he was throwing 92/93. The velocity has NEVER came back, and he’s also lost some command of his pitches after the injury.

    Maybe the rehabilitation from TJS will help him regain that lost velocity. Maybe he’ll decide to take his conditioning seriously. Short of that, there’s a reason the Yankees sent him back to the pen. His current “stuff” no longer projects as a front-end starter, but yet another one of the many 4/5 starters the Yankees have.

    Unless Joba shows improved velocity, command and committment, he should stay in the pen.

  106. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 2:53 am

    His current “stuff” no longer projects as a front-end starter

    This doesnt make sense because his fastball as a starter is still faster than 90% of RH starting pitchers. They should be stretching him as a starter

  107. ron December 26th, 2011 at 3:12 am

    ywn

    I agree.

    But the fact remains that the yankees got it wrong.

  108. ron December 26th, 2011 at 3:27 am

    It sounds like joba is looking at things a little differently.
    Talk prospects,noesi,nova,betances,banuelos,hughes,etc…,all you wan’t,but a good starting pitcher is hard to find,a great one,nearly impossible,so save the we have to many prospects for the rotation for someone else.

    Betances & banuelos are 2-4 years away from being anything special,if they even become that.

    Look at king felix,and almost every other pitcher who has ever played.

    I would talk to joba & see what he want’s.
    If he want’s to be a starter,i do it with no doubts.

    Also,about getting back to trading hughes.

    gb7:

    You have an ability to constantly be wrong about almost everything that you say.

    Every player is or was a prospects,so you have to know wich ones to keep,wich ones to trade.

    Jeter,po,mo,bernie,pettitte,etc…,you keep.

    Trading hughes or joba instead of kennedy,and we are a better team,and have our number 2 starter.

    Now if hughes turns into a better pitcher than kennedy,wrong move,but i just don’t see it happening.

    That trade might hurt for a while,and we better hope granderson doesn’t fall off,and kennedy wins a cy.

  109. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 5:17 am

    That has to be a joke or written by the biggest idiot around. Is that how you decide which ones to keep? Wait until they become stars, and if you trade one off that becomes a start after 2 years of injury and ineffectiveness, you were wrong and if you keep one that had a year’s worth of injuries and bad games, you made a mistake by not trading him? Seems like the only two people that could make that decision are The Amazing Kreskin and Ms Cleo.

    I take that back. That wasn’t a joke by you.

  110. ron December 26th, 2011 at 5:48 am

    That does not change the fact that the yankees got it wrong,wich you don’t seem to understand.

    Never said anybody can tell.

    I also said that it would have been hard to substitute hughes.

  111. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 5:57 am

    Arizona asked for Kennedy.

    No one has any idea whether or not Cashman tried to keep Kennedy and include Hughes instead.

    Wish I had the crystal ball some here seem to have or seem to think the Yankees should have.

  112. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 6:51 am

    ron December 26th, 2011 at 5:48 am
    That does not change the fact that the yankees got it wrong,wich you don’t seem to understand.

    Never said anybody can tell.

    I also said that it would have been hard to substitute hughes.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    How in the Hell do you know they got it wrong? Were they wrong in 2009 or 2010? Doesn’t seem like they were to me. Did they get it wrong because Kennedy won 20 games in 2011 and Hughes only won 18 in 2010? 2010 was his first full season as a ML starter. Kennedy has had two. Kennedy also missed almost all of 2008 and 2009. I’m guessing hughes has 1 more full year to start. Maybe by then, you’ll want to trade Nova or Noesi or Sabathia. Time to gaze into your Nostredamus bowl of magic water and see pick this week’s lottery numbers. Pick some horses because you sure as Hell don’t know squat about baseball.

  113. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 6:54 am

    ***Nostradamus***

  114. Joe from Long Island December 26th, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Good morning.

    Heading into manhattan for the day. Enjoy the day, everyone.

    GB – I can see you’re up and at it ;). Have a good one.

  115. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 8:06 am

    GB7

    Nice to see you’re still in the Christmas spirit. :D:

    randy is safe because Moose season is over.

    If he stays long enough he may be a target during Turkey season.

    I wish all the ones that seem to know better than Cashman would share that wisdom with him so he would stop making mistakes.

    If he would listen maybe the Yankees would be celebrating #35 by now.

  116. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Good morning Joe.

    I think I’d rather head out to the woods than to deal with all the animals where you’re going.

  117. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 8:14 am

    Good morning.

    Hope all of you got what you wanted for Christmas/Chanukah.

    BTW-Is the plural for Moose, Meese?

    What does this say about Boston??

    Agent Scott Boras, who negotiated Daisuke Matsuzaka’s six-year, $52MM deal in 2006, is no fan of the Japanese posting system, Michael Silverman. of the Boston Herald writes. Boras says that the actual talks with Boston weren’t unpleasant, but he would have preferred to see his client choose between other cities that might have “fit” him better.

  118. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 8:20 am

    break down kennedy’s 2011 and you really cant even say it was better than hugh’s 2010.

    10-0 vs. the nl west, one of the worst hitting divisions in many years

    4.40 era vs. the (bottom of) the AL, kc, oakland, minn and cleveland.

    I like kennedy and i root for him but he’s got a tremendous advantage in that league and division. he has not to this point shown what it takes to be a #2 in the AL, let alone the AL East, and you can’t say based on that season that he’s going to be better than hughes.

  119. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 8:20 am

    Trader

    BTW-Is the plural for Moose, Meese?

    ———————————————————

    No ,those are the little gray things you want to keep out of your house. :D:

  120. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 8:22 am

    what would have ‘fit’ boras better would have been to get a piece of the posting money and a piece of a bigger contract based on not having to pay the posting fee.

  121. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 8:26 am

    I believe it’s Moosai or maybe Moosemore or Mooseamany

    As I recall people here were ecstatic the Yanks could keep Joba and Hughes out of the Granderson trade.

    Over the last two years Kennedy is 30-14. Hughes is 23-13. Kennedy is also 1 1/2 years older FWIW. I’d say the jury is still out on that one.

    The Japanese posting system is great — for Japanese team owners. It stinks for MLB and for the player himself. MLB team pays way too much total $$$ and the player gets far too small a percentage of that $$$.

  122. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Maine-

    Found a photo of some meese, oops mooses, I mean moose.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q.....#038;ty=86

  123. blake December 26th, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Morning everyone ….hope everyone had a great day yesterday.

    In the winter of 2009…hughes was the guy you wanted to keep…..he had been the top pitching prospect in the minors and had just been the best set up man in the game helping the Yanks make the playoffs that year….his stuff was electric and he was going back into the rotation the following year.

    That said…..there is no question that Kennedy is a better pitcher right now……better command….better secondary stuff (great CU)……and just a better feel for pitching. Hives may still get there but he’s not now and Kennedy is no fluke or NL product. The way he gets hitters out works in any league……would he have a higher era in the AL east…..yea probably…..burned still be dang good.

  124. blake December 26th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    Hives = Hughes…..

  125. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 8:36 am

    Ys Guy-

    You beat me to the punch about Kennedy’s stats vs the AL teams in 2011. Those singular games aside, he had a terrific season, and posted an ERA of 2.11 post all star game averaging a strikeout an inning.

    I agree that we’ll have to see which pitcher goes on to have a more successful career. Too bad the Yankees couldn’t have kept both of them.

  126. blake December 26th, 2011 at 8:39 am

    That’s a very small sample against AL teams….those offenses aren’t any better than most NL offenses and are worse than some.

  127. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 8:39 am

    I’m ready for Pitchers and Catchers to report.

    :)

  128. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Sure as Hell was very many people clamouring to keep Kennedy around in 2008, 2009 or 2010. best I remember, he was called a lot of things, but, I don’t think pitcher was one of them.

  129. blake December 26th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    MTU,

    Me too…..starting dec 26th….im ready for spring

  130. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Sure as Hell ***wasn’t*** very many people

  131. Bret The Hitman December 26th, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Time has run out on Phil Hughes. Let’s be honest. The Yankees control him for 2013 and 2014. If he can pitch well this season he’s almost not worth keeping.

    Guys like Karstens and Ian Kennedy have fared well in the National League. You wonder if one or two GM’s over there project Hughes can do the same. If Hughes can pitch with some consistency this year I’d move him to the NL at the deadline. The Yankees need to salvage something with him.

  132. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 8:47 am

    im not looking to knock kennedy, who i defended quite a bit when he was so unpopular here. i always thought he’d make it . but i also havent’ given up on hughe’s.

  133. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Blake-

    Last Dec. I was busy building an Ark. This Dec. I wished I would have gotten an extra pair of thermal underwear for the Holidays.

    Brrrrrrrr ! It’s been cold.

    Especially the mornings.

    :)

  134. blake December 26th, 2011 at 8:49 am

    MTU,

    Lol

    Ys,

    Understand….me neither. Hughes could be a huge x factor this year.

  135. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Yeah….time always runs out on a 25 year old ball player, whether he’s a hitter or a pitcher. And, of course, if he does well this year, by all means dump him. Who needs him?

  136. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    Should have dumped Guidry or Rivera and gotten something useful for them. After all, they were 25 and 26 years OLD.

  137. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    You cannot use that small sample size for Kennedy vs. AL in 2011. Truth is he had ONE bad game vs. the AL which skews the bottom line.

  138. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    MTU-

    I know they make electric socks-what about thermal underwear, or is there a danger of electrocution to sweaty you know what[Saturday Night Live]?

    :)

  139. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 8:57 am

    But GB7 is correct – no one (close to no one) wanted the Yankees to keep Kennedy for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was they “just didn’t like his attitude.” All of a sudden he’s a prodigy the Yankees missed on.

    People are aware that to make a good trade, to get a good player, you really DO have to give up good players in return? You can’t simply unload your unwanteds?

  140. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Note to Freddy Garcia :

    “You and Hughesy are brother-in-arms (no pun intented). As such you want to help him Amigo.
    Please teach him your nasty splitter and he will buy you dinner and mucho cervezas.”

    Note to Larry Rothschild:

    “Larry. You’re a smart Man. You know Hughesy needs a good off speed pitch to complement his FB.
    You also know that the circle change is a “feel” pitch and does not work well for all pitchers. Please
    offer Sr. Hughes the option to learn the splitter. Thanks. MTU.”

    And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

    :)

  141. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    YT-

    Seen that in some Movies. Looks kinda painful. I’d rather stick with goose down.

    P.S. I hope you remodeled your chimney before this Xmas. Rumor had it that Santa was goin’ big over at your place this year.

    ;)

  142. DaSaint007 December 26th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    The Japanese posting system is great — for Japanese team owners. It stinks for MLB and for the player himself. MLB team pays way too much total $$$ and the player gets far too small a percentage of that $$$.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Good morning all! Seems to me that Japan always has a trade imbalance with the US.

  143. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 8:29 am
    Maine-

    Found a photo of some meese, oops mooses, I mean moose.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q…..#038;ty=86

    —————————————————-

    I don’t need a picture.

    I can look out my window at times and see them there.

    I saw a bull and cow one early morn walking through my yard.

    No GB7 Rocky wasn’t with them.

  144. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 9:07 am

    iak’s era vs. the AL since leaving the yankees: 5.76

  145. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:07 am

    “No Pitcher will serve me before his time.”

    John Mondavi on Pitching.

    :)

  146. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:08 am

    I admit to being someone who couldn’t get rid of Kennedy fast enough.

    That being said, IMO it is ludicrous for anyone at any time to pretend they know that what a player is doing elsewhere would automatically translate to the Bronx. One reason I never look back but only forward is that I know enough that it’s impossible to know what would have happened “if only”. You cannot know whether a player on a certain team would have had to be working a lot harder were he with the Yankees – we do know that playing in the Bronx requires a different mentality set than, saying, playing in a more placid atmosphere. We also know that playing in the AL East is a lot tougher than playing in most other divisions in baseball, AL or NL.

    I never underestimate the pressure that comes with playing in the Bronx, nor the type of psyche it takes to be sucessful in the Bronx. It takes a lot more than talent. Talk to Ricky Ledee.

  147. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Maine-

    You’re confused. YT was talkin’ about Meese not cows.

    We know you have plenty of THEM Mr. Dairy Farmer !

    :)

  148. Tar December 26th, 2011 at 9:10 am

    “If he stays long enough he may be a target during Turkey season.”

    :D Good one Maine, morning everybody.

    The overwhelming consensus on LoHud was that IPK was not a very good pitcher. ( Hughes was way ahead of him) and a loudmouth to boot. Most wanted to run him out of town.

    GB is right, now that he has had some success in the NL— Cashman should have kept him and traded Hughes. Hindsight…..

    I do find it funny that the guy he was traded for -Granderson- also was run out of town last year.

  149. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Merry Xmas Trisha.

    This one had to be a lot better.

    Am I right ?

    See. I really do know everything.

    :)

  150. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    And I happen to believe that Kennedy is better suited playing on a team that does not have the kind of pressure that comes with playing for the Yankees. JMO.

  151. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    I like how you want to use Karstens as an example of one that got away.

    He wouldn’t be a good #5 for most good teams.

    And to put Hughes in the same catergory makes no seanse at all.

  152. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Tar-

    I just thought young Mr. Kennedy had caught a case of foot-in-mouth disease.

    :)

  153. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:14 am

    MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:10 am
    Maine-

    You’re confused. YT was talkin’ about Meese not cows.

    We know you have plenty of THEM Mr. Dairy Farmer !

    ——————————————————–

    The only cows I have now are pictures.

    Easier to clean up after and to feed.

  154. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Maine-

    But what about the black and white paint theme in your Kitchen ?

    Admit it.You miss them.

    :)

  155. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Tar and MTU at the same time! I KNOW I was a good little girl last year! :)

    MTU, it was a lovely, if not hectic, day. We still have kids 5 and under (youngest just turned one) running around and I am always the go-to aunty when it comes to the kids, so I find I spend most of my day entertaining/corraling the little ones!!!

    But of course you got it right, as always. This was a much better one that last year. Indeed it was. :)

  156. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    seanse at all.

    sense. No I’m not a psychic

  157. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Trisha-

    Sounds happy. I’m glad.

    The Sun always follows the rain sooner or later.

    Just do as I said and keep eating spicy foods and all will be well.

    ;)

  158. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    Was Kennedy even the key piece for the Diamondbacks in the 3 way trade, or was it Edwin Jackson? After all he pitched one inning in the majors that year in September of 2009, after aneurysm surgery in May of 2009, before being involved in that December trade.

  159. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    No Maine.

    You are not psychic but at our age you might need a physic.

    ;)

  160. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    This should get the snot flying this morning.

    From MLBTR

    “The Yankees had John Danks high on their wishlist before the left-hander inked a five-year, $65MM extension with the White Sox, writes Ken Davidoff of Newsday. Although starters like Edwin Jackson and Hiroki Kuroda remain on the open market, it seems like GM Brian Cashman might have to bring in a “few warm bodies” like he did with Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia.”

  161. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Sign of a slow OS when some of us lament the past instead of looking to the future.

    Which, by the way, is so darn bright.

    :)

  162. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    “Just do as I said and keep eating spicy foods and all will be well.”

    Well of course I know that’s the key to my success. Geeze!

  163. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:22 am
    No Maine.

    You are not psychic but at our age you might need a physic.

    ——————————————————-

    No. I need to forget things not know more.

    Being forgetful can be a good excuse.

  164. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    GB-

    Blake and I both knew that because of our frequent phone calls to KW.

    ;)

  165. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Have to go soon.

    Has Boras waited too long to get these 3 FAs signed?

    Ryan Madson- still many FA closers and closers available in trade-Bailey, possibly Marmol.

    Edwin Jackson- I’ve heard no substantial rumors that anyone is interested, especially since Boras is looking for a Danks deal.

    Prince Fielder- Lot of 1st base cheaper options out there like Carlos Pena and Casey Kotchman. Will Fielder at age 27 get that 10 year deal, or be lucky to get a 5-6 year deal?

  166. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Trisha,

    Those cookies you made looked sensational. The problem I had was just thinking about them made me hungry. I cheated and looked right after your post and my stomach started growling. i thought “Killer” had caught a burglar, or in his case, a mouse. Not much of a watchdog but a good babysitter and mouser.

  167. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    “Sign of a slow OS when some of us lament the past instead of looking to the future.

    Which, by the way, is so darn bright.”

    Brain cells being diminished by lack of spicy food. It’s a shame!

  168. Tar December 26th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    “so I find I spend most of my day entertaining/corraling the little ones!!!”

    Trish

    And feeding them delicious looking cookies. :D It sounds like you had the best kind of Merry Christmas, with family and especially kids.

    YT

    I think you are right, IPK was more of a throw in on that deal.

  169. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Maine-

    Forgetting is the God Lord’s gift for dealing with pain.

    We all get better at it with time.

    I’m becoming a total expert.

    Say hi to Mrs. Maine for me next time the 2 of you are atop Cadillac Mtn.

    :)

  170. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Edit: “good Lord’s”. Duh. Good Lord.

  171. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    it seems like GM Brian Cashman might have to bring in a “few warm bodies” like he did with Bartolo Colon and Freddy Garcia.”
    —————————————–
    Like a return of Colon-maybe he had offseason stem cell and platelet rich plasma injections.

    Lefty Scott Kazmir and Rich Harden on minor league deals?

    Russ Ohlendorf-minor league deal?

    Any others you might take a chance on?

  172. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    I think all the pieces in that 3-way trade were “key”… and they all have worked out quite nicely.

    That deal is a good reminder to those who think a # 2 starter can be had without giving up any of the top three catchers or top three pitchers in the system.

    That said I have no problem at all going to spring training with CC, Nova and AJ set and Hughes/Garcia/Noesi fighting for two slots. I can not envision a scenario in which the Yanks eat $ 20-30 M to get rid of AJ. I could envision a scenario in which the Yanks trade bad contract for bad contract in hopes of getting better player out of the guy they’re getting.

    AJ for Jason Bay, for example has some merit….. and some demerits

  173. 108 stitches December 26th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    An exceptional talent evaluator can’t ever be undervalued. Aside from baseball / athletic skills, they need to know the personal makeup of the player and spend considerable time with their families to see what made them reach their present level.
    If Tom Greenwade had not done his due diligence in spending the time he did with a hard working coal miner named Mutt Mantle from Commerce, Oklahoma he might not have known the work ethic of his son Mickey.
    That was Tom Greenwade’s style and he signed others because of not seeing a player strictly from their baseball skills. Many professional scouts learned from Tom Greenwade.

  174. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Not sure if anybody has been reading Josh Norris’ reports from a scout, but, of Corbin Joseph, Mason Williams, Branden Pinder, Montero, Banuelos, Bryan Mitchell, Cito Culver and Angelo Gumbs, the only one he wasn’t impressed with was Culver (who is 18). Feels that Mitchell is best served as a reliever.

  175. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    i like prince, but i hope he doesnt get a 10 year deal. any 10 year guaranteed deal is a gamble that teams shouldn’t have to take. it also prices even mid-market teams out of signing top talent. i hope he gets a 6 year deal, rakes and gets another nice deal coming off of it.

  176. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    GB – :lol:

    You are definitely at the top of the send-to list. I just might make a few after-Christmas recipes and use you as the test subject – to see how they travel, not to see if you live!!!

    ************

    Trader – cannot tell you exactly why I feel the way I do, except call it some gut instinct about the guy. I believe that Edwin Jackson could turn into a phenom for some team, totally consistent and excellent. I don’t know if it’s the coaching, not a great fit where he’s been, lack of confidence, but I believe he has the goods to be a number one. I don’t know why it hasn’t happened. I really don’t think he’s gotten the kind of support he’s needed to bring out the best in him.

  177. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    I’ve said for years that Kazmir should go to the pen and just become a fastball/slider guy. He could tap into his inner Billy Wagner that way.

  178. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Trisha-

    Spicy food and cold beer to chase is Waaaaaaaay better than bacon.

    Perhaps JF and LGY will see that some day.

    They do not need sabremetrics. Just a healthy dose of Habernero peppers and Tabasco sauce.

    A little Curry wouldn’t hurt either.

    All will be clear after that.

    ;)

  179. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Trader

    I think you didn’t look close enough to see the fork in Kazmir.

  180. Against All Odds December 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    He threw a couple more pitches and then the Yankees immediately shut him down.

    ————————————–

    Only to bring him back months later to pitch him in a season that died in August. If the injury was that serious why bring back an arm like that to pitch in a lost season. To make matters worse they brought him back to pitch in high leverage innings. SMH

  181. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    86-

    I don’t think Kazmir has sported that really good heater in a while.

  182. Yankee Trader December 26th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    A recent study in the Journal of Pharmaceutical Biology shows that certain spices often used in Mexican food can actually increase and improve your memory.

    The spice in question is cumin and cilantro. The study feeds rats water that has the spices in it. The rats with the spiked water performed better in memory and performance tests.
    ———————————–
    Trisha and MTU-

    Is this another definition of a “small sample size?”
    Ready to volunteer in a human study now?

    Have a great day everyone. Will check back later on responses.

  183. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:40 am

    “A little Curry wouldn’t hurt either.

    All will be clear after that.”

    I love me that curry! And for skeptics like JF and LGY, we’ll let them have two kinds of Curry – Indian and Jack. That should definitely seal the deal!!!

  184. Shame Spencer December 26th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Morning all – Just stopping in to wish you a SAFE and happy New Year! Hope you all enjoyed the holidays thus far and can’t wait till after the first of the year so I can revert back to ignoring all of the other major sports in favor of following the Yanks ;)

  185. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:42 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:35 am
    GB –

    You are definitely at the top of the send-to list. I just might make a few after-Christmas recipes and use you as the test subject – to see how they travel, not to see if you live!!!

    —————————————————————–

    Just be sure you use a double dose of poison inorder to be sure it does the job.

  186. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    the next team that gets edwin jackson will be the 7th team to think he has a chance to be a phenom. then they will likely trade him to the 8th team that thinks so…

  187. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    tons of cumin and cilantro in my vegetarian bulghur chili. i take whole cumin and grind it up just before it goes into the pot, much stronger than the already ground cumin. its addictive…

  188. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Geeze I didn’t realize Jackson had been on so many teams. Sorry but I still think the guy has the goods and that some team is going to hit the jackpot if they take the time with him that he needs. I know he isn’t currently made to order. Something went wrong along the way and I’m not sure what. He needs a Larry Rothschild in his corner.

  189. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Greenwade looked like anything but a scot. Looked more like Icabod Crane, but, he had an eye for talent. Among them was Mantle, Hank Bauer, Elston Howard, Tom Morgan, Ralph Terry, Bobby Murcer and recommended the signing of Clete Boyer but KC signed his first and three kids from the old Negro Leagues, Mays, Aaron and Banks. He scouted Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama….any place he heard a kid’s name. Mantle wanted to sign with either the Cardinals or the Browns. Browns offered him a $500 bonus and the Cards thought he was too small and they also knew about his legs. How different would Yankee history might have been.

  190. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Maine, we need GB alive and well as our enforcer here!

    :)

  191. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 9:48 am

    Not only did Greenwade not look like a ***Scot*** but he didn’t look like a scout, either.

  192. MTU December 26th, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Time to walk the pupperazzi.

    Later.

  193. Joe from Long Island December 26th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    On the LIRR…..

    MaineYankee, you’ve obviously never seen the beauty of Manhattan at Christmastime ;)

    Enjoy the mooses….messes…. More mooses….. Bullwinkles……

    Later

  194. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Trisha,

    As for being your test subject, I’d say that I’m game, but, very afraid that Maine might take that seriously.

    Definately up for trying new things, though.

  195. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    I don’t typically treat myself to the day-after-Christmas shopping but I am in the market for some wrapping paper so might run out to one of the local stores to see what I might be able to score!

    Later y’all.

    :)

  196. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    One of the reporters said he compared the last three years of Jackson and Danks and they were quite similar numbers. I’ve always liked Jackson’s arm and would have no issues with him. He’s about a year and a half older than Danks. Only the strikes and walks differ very much. Jackson with a few more walks and a few more strikeouts.

  197. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    GB – you got it. Within the next few weeks, I will perfect the art of sending Christmas cookies – with your help of course. :)

  198. MaineYankee December 26th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Joe from Long Island December 26th, 2011 at 9:52 am
    On the LIRR…..

    MaineYankee, you’ve obviously never seen the beauty of Manhattan at Christmastime

    Enjoy the mooses….messes…. More mooses….. Bullwinkles……

    Later

    ————————————————————————-

    I’m sure you’re right.

    I know my wife would love to see it at Christmas.

    She always likes to see the lighting of the tree on TV.

  199. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    GB7 -

    In Norris’ reports from scouts, that scout also pegged Betances as a reliever.

  200. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    one thing about kennedy , he has gotten this far without lights-out stuff, he’s an overachiever and a very smart pitcher. i think he takes better advantage than most of the lineups in the nl and particularly the nl west. its not just that the 7/8/9 hitters are weak, but a smart pitcher extends that even further and doesnt give the #5 and 6 hitters anything to work with knowing that there are total non-hitters coming up.

    padres: o hudson (.357 obp), n hundley, forsyth, parrino (.520 ops), P

    giants: (with beltran) huff, schierholz, o cabrera, whiteside, P (pitch around huff and you’re home-free)

    dodgers: juan rivera (another cashman mistake?), loney (.620 ops), navarro (.197 ba), velez, P

    credit kennedy for taking advantage of who got in the box in front of him, but winning 10 games vs. these kinds of lineups just doesn’t blow me away, especially when you look at the 5.76 era vs. the AL the past 2 seasons.

  201. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    I wasn’t advocating for Kazmir, just pointing out I always considered him more Billy Wagner than Ron Guidry. He has not been healthy and the arm may very well be shot.

    Edwin Jackson is really talented, but the Yanks already have one enigmatic underachieving hard throwing righties in the rotation and maybe a pair of them (Hughes).

  202. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    i left off the rockies:

    wiggy, j. lopez, ianetta, amezzaga, p.

    beyond the #5 hitters none of these guys are major league level hitters. thats 4 non-hitters in each lineup in 15 of kennedy’s 33 starts. you cannot compare that to pitching in the AL East.

  203. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Ys Guy -

    For the sake of argument, take 3-5 wins away and add a run to the ERA. You still have a darn good pitcher.
    15-18 wins and high 3 to low 4 ERA in the AL East. I’d take it.

  204. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    villa, how does that work with the 5.4 era vs, the al the past 2 seasons? i think you have vastly underrated how bad those lineups are and how much they help the record and the era. kennedy cant do anything about who gets in the box, but this is kind of a joke. these #5 hitters would be at best #7 (8?) hitters in the al east if they could even get off the bench.

  205. LGY December 26th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Ya know, you could just look up who Kennedy has faced instead of making the NL West sound like the Gulf Coast League.

    Average OPS of opponents faced

    2010:

    Kennedy: .770
    Hughes: .753

    2011:

    Kennedy: .743
    Hughes: .742

  206. LGY December 26th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    So Kennedy has actually faced tougher competition the past two seasons than Hughes.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

  207. 108 stitches December 26th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    If only the Yankees could use the railroad tracks without the large fallen oak tree (albatross contract) across the tracks, pitchers like Noesi, Warren, Phelps, and Mitchell could present an interesting challenge for the No. 5 spot in the starting rotation.
    It’s a waste of talent to use any of them in the already solid bullpen that will only get better in June or July when Chamberlain returns.

  208. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Here’s one way to look at the NL West pitching/offense debate.

    The NL West averaged 3.92 Runs per game with three teams in the bottom dozen. SF (3.52) was next to last in MLB with SD (3.66) the 3rd worst. LA Dodgers check in at # 20 (4.00).

    Arizona (4.51) was # 9 in scoring, but Ian Kennedy did not have to pitch against the best offense in the division.

    If you take away Arizona’s offensive productivity Kennedy’s three main opponents against whom he was 10-0 combined to average 3.73 runs per game —- more than a half a run per game below the MLB average.

    In short, scheduling helped him a lot in 2011 and probably will into the future.

  209. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    It’s probably a lot easier for NL West hitters to have higher OPS than it is for AL East hitters.

    And come on LGY, you’re not using one percentage point in 2011 to try to make a case, are you????

    Try apples and apples. You want to talk about OPS against an AL East pitcher v. OPS against another AL East pitcher, maybe it’s worth paying attention to.

  210. austinmac December 26th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Many got angry at Kennedy when he wasn’t remorseful enough after a bad game. As I said then, everyone deals with struggles in their own way. He is obviously strong mentally, but others wanted him to flog himself in public.

  211. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    totally disagree. when you look at the ops of the bottom 4 in the nl west lineups, it just shows you how the lineups are so uneven. the top 4 guys rake and then the minor league hitters come up. this was my initial point, there is no reason for kennedy to pitch to the good hitters with the weak hitters filling the bottom 4 spots in each lineup

  212. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    LGY—

    Are those opponents OPS for Kennedy/Hughes a calculation of the ops of every opposing hitter at bat by at bat? By whom?

    If it isn’t then the stat is completely meaningless.

  213. LGY December 26th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Trisha

    What are you talking about?

    The average hitter that stepped into the box vs Kennedy over the past two seasons had a higher OPS over the course of the season than the average hitter that Hughes faced.

  214. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Others including the Yankees. And austinmac, it wasn’t only after one bad game. He and Hughes were neck in neck for torpedoing the Yankee season before it even got started. Hughes was always introspective and talking about what he needed to do better. Kennedy was prettty cavalier and said he thought he had done a good enough job and didn’t need to change anything. This was a college-educated young man. Unfortunate that he didn’t realize that response wouldn’t play in the Bronx. In fact I don’t know where it would play!

    To me he had a stereotypical west-coast mentality. I think he’s geared to play for teams where he doesn’t feel high stress or high accountability. That’s just my opinion and nothing that has happened since he left the Bronx has caused me to feel differently about him. I wish him well and hope he has a great run – away from the Bronx.

  215. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    LGY what I am saying is that I think it is easier for NL West hitters to amass higher OPS than it is for AL East hitters. Just like I think that Justin Verlander’s overall body of work wouldn’t be nearly what it is if he pitched in the AL East. There’s no comparison in the level of competition with the unbalanced schedule.

  216. LGY December 26th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Why would it be easier for the hitters to amass a higher OPS?

    That’s the exact opposite of what everyone is discounting Kennedy for.

  217. LGY December 26th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Anyway, I’m outta here.

    Got my Knicks Christmas present. Still waiting for KURODA.

  218. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    I am discounting Kennedy as an NL West pitcher with a california mentality that would fall apart in the Bronx. That is my belief. I don’t think he has the toughness to pitch in the Bronx. I don’t think he would survive in the AL, period. Or certainly not pitch at the level he does in the NL West.

  219. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Ys Guy -
    I give Kennedy some credit for developing,you know? It’s not a static thing. He’s been improving in pitching.

  220. DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    Chamberlain’s a good guy and all that rot, but the last several seasons he’s generally been a inconsistent whether he’s been an SP or RP. He should be back at close to full strength by July 31 which would give Cashman an added trading chip. With Soriano, Robertson, and Mo, the Yanks have innings 7-9 covered as far as the Pen is concerned. You throw in 2 Lefties for situational matchups and Chamberlain is gonna be hard pressed to elbow his way into any meaningful role in the Yankee Pen. Yea, guys get hurt, need rest, blah\blah\blah, but as of right now, Chamberlain’s value to the Yanks is assa trading chip, or possibly as an SP once again. Cashman is on the record as stating Chamberlain comes off the D\L and goes to the Pen. If that truly is the case, then the question becomes whose Pen?

  221. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    “Why would it be easier for the hitters to amass a higher OPS?”

    Because they are not facing the level of pitching that hitters face in the AL East. Quite simple.

  222. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    To me he had a stereotypical west-coast mentality. I think he’s geared to play for teams where he doesn’t feel high stress or high accountability.

    ——————————–

    Can’t we say the same thing about Hughes?

  223. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    of course using kennedy’s two healthy seasons against hughes one healthy and another in which he was hurt and recovering is always a fair way to judge.

  224. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    “I give Kennedy some credit for developing,you know? It’s not a static thing. He’s been improving in pitching.”

    I definitely agree with you Villa. Tough to take that away from him.

  225. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    LGY -

    You will make no headway in this argument. People have their mind made up, have made psychological evaluations of Kennedy and will not budge.

    I’m with you.

  226. 108 stitches December 26th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    LGY December 26th, 2011 at 11:26 am
    Anyway, I’m outta here.

    Got my Knicks Christmas present. Still waiting for KURODA.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Sorry but there will be no Kuroda, Jackson, Garza, Maholm, or anybody else until Burnett is no longer on the Yankee roster. Also, Cashman is not about to deal Hughes to clear space on the roster.

  227. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    I’m not buying that OPS stat, it just doesn’t make sense when Kennedy is facing the lowest scoring teams in baseball more often than not plus facing opposing pitchers more often than AL designated hitters.

    Here’s a stat I can believe in —- Ian Kennedy’s career numbers

    Versus AL Teams —– 3 – 8, 5.91

    Versus NL Teams —- 28-10, 3.01

    I think he should be applauded by the job he’s done in Arizona. But it’s certainly valid to question how well he would be doing in the AL East.

  228. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    “Can’t we say the same thing about Hughes?”

    The differences I’ve seen with Hughes have do with both his accountability and with the stellar pitching we have seen from him in the AL East. Hughes has proven that he’s tough enough to pitch in the Bronx.

    “of course using kennedy’s two healthy seasons against hughes one healthy and another in which he was hurt and recovering is always a fair way to judge.”

    Now that is a HUGE bingo!

  229. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    “Ys Guy -
    I give Kennedy some credit for developing,you know? It’s not a static thing. He’s been improving in pitching.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 11:33 am
    LGY -

    You will make no headway in this argument. People have their mind made up, have made psychological evaluations of Kennedy and will not budge.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    first off, i was giving kennedy credit, i said he’s smart enough to really take advantage of the bottoms of these weak lineups more than others do, i give him big credit for his smart pitching.

    on the other point, i havent made up my mind one way of the other but opinions do change quite a bit around here. people who wanted kennedy cut or traded for a bag of balls now think getting rid of him was ‘another mistake by cashman’.
    i on the other hand, defended kennedy when he was here, and root for him over there, just trying to put some perspective on the relativity of kennedy’s 2011 and hughe’s 2010. both are impressive, neither one moreso than the other, imo.

  230. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    “You will make no headway in this argument. People have their mind made up, have made psychological evaluations of Kennedy and will not budge. ”

    In fairness, people have seen other players who have fared well away from the Bronx and not fared well in the Bronx. Think Javy Vasquez. Not everybody has the make-up to play for the Yankees in the glare of the NY spotlight. That’s really pretty basic stuff Villa.

    Whether Kennedy sealed his own fate with his cavalier attitude or whether it was something that the Yankee talent spotted in his pitching – or maybe a combination of both? – they decided he wasn’t what they needed. I tend to trust their judgment.

  231. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    The differences I’ve seen with Hughes have do with both his accountability and with the stellar pitching we have seen from him in the AL East. Hughes has proven that he’s tough enough to pitch in the Bronx.

    with the stellar pitching we have seen from him in the AL East.

    ——————————————-

    Where was his accountability when he came into shape out of shape?

    His stellar pitching in the AL east is made up of 6 weeks in 2010 unless you’re also including his bullpen stints.

  232. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    “I think he should be applauded by the job he’s done in Arizona. But it’s certainly valid to question how well he would be doing in the AL East.”

    Spot on. It would be irresponsible not to!

  233. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 11:33 am
    LGY -

    You will make no headway in this argument. People have their mind made up, have made psychological evaluations of Kennedy and will not budge.

    I’m with you.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    LGY is the one that’s trashing Hughes. You can toss out a season in which a player is hurt. It makes as much sense as trying to compare Rodriguez’ numbers against Beltre or Longoria’s. I’d kill to have both in the rotation, but, Kennedy had to be sacrificed to get Granderson. you certainly can’t hold an injury plagued season against the player. If you do, you’d better start trshing Chamberlain, Rodriguez and any other player who misses that much time.

  234. Shame Spencer December 26th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Here’s a stat I can believe in —- Ian Kennedy’s career numbers

    Versus AL Teams —– 3 – 8, 5.91

    Versus NL Teams —- 28-10, 3.01

    ————————-

    I’m not sure these numbers are a fair way to evaluate Kennedy’s talent any more than LGY’s OPS numbers are.

  235. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    When I talk about accountability, I am talking about the maturity and instrospection he showed when he wasn’t pitching well. He never once said he felt he had pitched a good game and didn’t need to improve.

    I do remember when he was pitching a no hitter in Texas and ended up leaving the game with a hamstring injury. He was something like 20 years old at the time.

    I’ve always believed that Hughes’s maturity level and his pitching ability would fare him well in the Bronx. I cannot say for sure what combination of factors caused him to go off track, but I still believe in his stuff. And I think he has icewater in his veins, something I think you need to have success in the Bronx.

  236. tucker December 26th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Per the conversation on the Dbacks’ interest in IPK, he was far more than a “throw-in” for that deal. He may not have pitched much in September, but the DBacks noticed him when he proved he recovered and pitched well in the Arizona Fall League. They have said they coveted IPK because of his superior command. Plus, he was a cost controlled starter who could anchor their rotation. The DBacks were right.

  237. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Well I will stay with my opinion. I wouldn’t want Kennedy on the Yankees because I don’t believe he has the mental toughness to play in the Bronx. I think he would fold like an accordian.

    I definitely think he’s tailor-made for a team like Arizona.

  238. Shame Spencer December 26th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    In 2007 when Kennedy first came on the scene to replace Mike Mussina who was injured (I believe), I can recall many a Yankee fans freaking out that he was left off of the postseason roster.

  239. 108 stitches December 26th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Given a choice between the principles of the 3-way deal between the Yankees, Arizona, and Detroit, I’ll take Granderson any day of the week. Once Kevin Long made adjustments with Granderson, he’s proven to be a great addition.
    No knock against Ian Kennedy but nothing for nothing with player deals.

  240. DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Yanks need to offer or create a spot for Posada on Girardi’s coaching staff. Seeing Posada in another Uniform just makes me shudder. I mean, how can you just watch the guy sign on with somebody like Tampa Bay, without giving him a Yankee option? The Yanks oughtta offer him a coaching position and then if Posada signs up with another team, the Yankees are absolved of having turned their back on one of the Core 4. Or was that just some sorta marketing malarkey?

  241. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Shame, that’s typical. They also freaked out when Mark Melancon wasn’t brought up when they wanted him brought up, freaked out when he wasn’t played soon enough for their wants when he was brought up (despite the Yankees being out of first place at the time and needing to get things back on track) and then freaked out when he didn’t pitch the way they thought he would and wanted him out of town immediately!

    I observe and then make decisions on what I observe. It’s too bad that fans get so hyped up in their own thoughts on how things should be done that they end up disappointed when things don’t work out quite they way they want them to!

  242. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    but I still believe in his stuff.

    Even though it took a step back this season

    And I think he has icewater in his veins, something I think you need to have success in the Bronx.

    if what games though. He struggled as a reliever in the 09 PS. He was beaten up by the Rangers in the two games he pitched. He’s 2-6 in his career against the Red Sox with a 6.65 ERA and a 1.6 5 WHIP

  243. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    i think po should go play anywhere he can if thats what he wants. i also think that having him around the yankees this year when he still thinks he can play would be a bad idea.

    love po! but i think a break is in order.

  244. RadioKev December 26th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Donnybrook,

    Posada is deciding if he wants to keep playing, not whether he wants to coach or not.

  245. 86w183 December 26th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    If Jorge decides to play elsewhere that’s his call. The Yanks don’t owe him a job offer… they more than took care of him with the $ 52.4 M they paid him to play an average of 99 games a year from 2008-11.

    Shame — you can use numbers any way you like, but Kennedy’s AL/NL splits are legit. I have no idea if LGY’s OPS stats are… but I doubt it.

    Common sense says there’s no way a guy in the NL West pitching a large percentage of his games against three of the bottom offenses in MLB and also having the advantage of pitching against opposing hitters rather than DHs would be facing “better hitters” than a guy in the AL East. That makes no sense to me.

  246. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Shame -

    IPK was very, very impressive during his 2007 September call-up to the AL EAST.

    ***

    I think the trade for Granderson was a good one.

  247. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Again, I do not know the combination of factors that led to Hughes being derailed (did being put in the bullpen throw him off his game at all, I don’t know). Did he not recover enough from his injuries each time he came back to play?

    All I know is that I’ve seen him pitch great games in the AL East, both in and out of the pen. I never saw Ian Kennedy do that in the Al East.

    I am still sold on Hughes. Nothing says anyone else has to be.

    And your bolding doesn’t change anything.

  248. RadioKev December 26th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    The Kennedy debate is a tired one. I think we should bench it unless someone has something new to contribute.

  249. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    “The Kennedy debate is a tired one. I think we should bench it unless someone has something new to contribute.”

    Done. It reminds me of the Johann Santana rehash. My opinion on that is the same as my opinion on any “what if” trade stories. You can never assume anything about the way a player is playing on another team and automatically bring it to the Bronx.

  250. randy l. December 26th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    i think it’s a myth that the american league east is so hard for yankee pitchers to pitch in simply because they don’t pitch against the yankees offense.

    what’s hard is if a pitcher is an oriole pitcher.

  251. RadioKev December 26th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    AJ Burnett dominated the Yankees and Red Sox one season. Go figure.

  252. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    randy l -

    Yankees and Red Sox pitchers both have the benefit of not having to face one of the two best lineups in the division.

    It is an interesting point you make.

  253. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    All I know is that I’ve seen him pitch great games in the AL East

    ——————————–

    Do you have any idea how bad his numbers in the AL East are

  254. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    No different than Pettitte.

  255. DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Some guys just love being around the game. Being on the 25 Man is not necessary to accomplish this. IF, the Yanks do Not offer him a coaching position, his Only option is to play caddy somewhere. The Yanks need to offer him a coaching position and give him that option.

  256. DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    - YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE -
    The Yanks publicly chased Pettitte, and even waited on Pettitte to make his decision. BIG difference between how the Yankee hierachy dealt with Pettitte and now Posada.

  257. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    And for those pooh-poohing that Kennedy had to face NL lineups with the pitcher, and in a weak division, etc, etc., how many of these same people want Kershaw (and I’m not making a direct comparison isn quality of pitcher, but how has pitching under those circumstances affected Kershaw’s numbers, for instance) and Kuroda, and then from the Central division in the NL, Carpenter.

    He won 20 games. That is not easy no matter who you’re pitching for.

    And that’s my final say on IPK. Because it is a tired subject.

    ****

  258. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    So let Po decide on his own just like AP did to retire. Both were great Yankees and were paid bundles of coin in the process.

  259. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    # DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Some guys just love being around the game. Being on the 25 Man is not necessary to accomplish this. IF, the Yanks do Not offer him a coaching position, his Only option is to play caddy somewhere. The Yanks need to offer him a coaching position and give him that option.

    ———————————————

    Jorge still wants to play he doesn’t want to be a coach

  260. yanks61 December 26th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    IPK – 21 -4 2.88 ERA IP 222 Hits 186 HR 19 BB 55 SO 198 WAR 5.5

    Pitcher X -

    21 -5 2.28 ERA IP 233 Hits 174 HR 15 BB 54 SO 248 WAR 7

    I’m sure everyone has figured out who Pitcher X is. Not too great a difference, right? So I guess we should never dream of Clayton Kershaw in pinstripes. After all, he’s a NL West pitcher, probably a really laid back Cal type guy, and for all the psychologists here, surely couldn’t stand up to the pressure of the AL East. We KNOW that, right?

    I’m not making a case for IPK > Hughes. I’ve love Hughes and still hope he’ll meet his great potential. But lets stop knocking IPK just because the Yanks traded him away. If IPK wouldn’t make the grade in the AL East, how the heck can anyone be so sure Kershaw would?

    Well, weak NL West or not, I’d take Kershaw in a heartbeat and I sure as heck would do the same if I could with IPK.

  261. GreenBeret7 December 26th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    The Yankees and Red Sox, two teams who were pushing for him in July, are said to be in the mix. The Diamondbacks and Rockies would each like to keep him in the NL West, though both clubs are budget-conscious as they look for a starter. Kuroda was reportedly close to signing somewhere last week but all of the aforementioned teams plus the Rangers and Mariners said that it wasn’t with them. Of course, there’s always the possibility that he’ll make his long-rumored return to the Hiroshima Carp. So, where do you see Kuroda landing?

    http://www.seattlepi.com/news/.....422731.php

  262. yanks61 December 26th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    SORRY VNY – I didn’t see your post. But happy to have company in your thoughts!

  263. Stottlemyre68 December 26th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Thanks for everything, Chad. Enjoy your break and see you next year!

  264. Phranchise December 26th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    If the Sox land Kuroda to try and solidify their staff and the Yankees decide to do nothing again it just gets silly. He is a one year contract. Anyone else out there will cost something and is an injury concern. I have had at least one plan one way or another with the Yankees for years. He is the perfect type bridge for what’s out there to get Banuelos and Betances another year of minor league experience if needed as it appears they won’t be trading those guys either. And you cannot just sit on Garcia, Hughes, CC all being healthy again and pinning hopes on AJ, Nova repeating and Noesi pitching well. That was the Red Sox formula a few times over the last few years and why they missed the playoffs. And if the do need to make a trade at some point they will be forced to move some of their young talent instead of simply paying a one year deal now for a veteran, an innings guy with not much injury history and played with Martin who knows him well.

  265. tucker December 26th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    I expect Hughes to have a strong year by his standards, which may translate to a mid-rotation starter. The irony is that of the three starters — Hughes, IPK and Joba — Hughes may be the least talented. His limitations, so far, have been injuries and the lack of a put-away pitch. But the Yanks evaluated him as a better starter than either IPK or Joba. Joba had flashes of brilliance but was inconsistent as a starter. IPK pitched scared in 2008, but he matured and gained confidence and looks like the best of the three at this point.

    Hughes may be able to turn it around this year, especially if he is in shape and injury free. But he needs that extra velocity for his rising fastball to put away batters with two strikes. He had that extra velocity as anreliever in 2009 and as a starter for the first two to three months of 2010, but he tired that year and finished as a mediocre pitcher despite his high win total. This is really a make or break year for him in pinstripes.

  266. blake December 26th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    IPK is really good…..he’s gained velocity since he was with the Yanks and has plus command of 3 pitches…….including a plus changeup that’s always been his calling card. The difference in the leagues is grossly overstated…..its all the big leagues and all teams get players from the sane places. Watch him pitch sometime……you’ll be impressed at how often he hits his spots and how efficiently he works.

  267. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    ““The Kennedy debate is a tired one. I think we should bench it unless someone has something new to contribute.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    im in if we can put ‘joba as a starter’ on the same bench. he wont be throwing anything noteworthy for 6 months anyway.

  268. yanks61 December 26th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Phranchise – I join you and all the others who think that Kuroda just makes too much sense to pass up if he’d come East. The Martin factor should, you’d think, favor the Yanks (and, of course, it would make this a very merry holiday for LGY!)

    RAB has just posted an interesting article on a Jai Miller (who I never heard of), who has recently been designated for assisgnment by the A’s. Mike Axisa makes an interesting case for possibly picking him up for the (homeless) Scranton Yankees and OF depth. High SO totals combined with real good power, above avg BB rate, good SB rate and, best of all, superb defender in all three OF positions (all in Triple A.)

    Mike thinks he might make a better option that Justin Maxwell.

  269. tucker December 26th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Blake, IPK’s two seamer is also very good. He freezes a lot of hitters with that pitch tailing back over the outside corner or painting the inside corner for lefties.

  270. blake December 26th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    I agree that Kuroda makes a log of sense…..however I think they’ll have to feel good about their chances of moving AJ to sign him.

  271. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    # Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    ““The Kennedy debate is a tired one. I think we should bench it unless someone has something new to contribute.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    im in if we can put ‘joba as a starter’ on the same bench. he wont be throwing anything noteworthy for 6 months anyway.

    ————————–

    He won’t be throwing anything note worthy when he comes back either.

  272. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    kuroda’s ok for depth, but we have depth, we need a top of the rotation guy and i just dont see kuroda filling that spot. also he would be blocking someone who might eventually be the guy to step up and cover that spot.

  273. blake December 26th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Tucker,

    Yup…..I don’t regret the Granderson trade…..but that doesn’t change the fact that Kennedy would easily be the Yanks 2nd best starter right now.

  274. yanks61 December 26th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Blake – what an albatross the AJ deal has become. If Coleridge were still around, maybe we could have him ship AJ out to Seattle so he could finish out his contract there as the Ancient Mariner!

  275. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    It is mind boggling that the great Joba debate is going on again here for the 106th time. Joba is a RP now, Cashman has said this dozens of times. Get over it.

  276. Red Robin December 26th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    New . Post .

    Chad .

  277. luis December 26th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Hi everyone!,

    Merry Christmass to all my fellow lohuders

  278. Villa Nova-Ya December 26th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    yanks61 -

    Very welcome. Glad you added the numbers, though. :)

  279. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    “…..but that doesn’t change the fact that Kennedy would easily be the Yanks 2nd best starter right now.”

    Javy Vazquez says hi!

    ;)

  280. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    And so does Randy Johnson!

  281. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    YAWN
    A
    W
    N

  282. luis December 26th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    Hi Trish!!,

    merry christmas!, good to see you around!

  283. mick December 26th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Hope you all are having Happy Holydays , whatever they are…Be Well!!

  284. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    dont see kennedy as a #2 in the AL. he has never shown that his #’s even last year don’t show that.

  285. tomingeorgia December 26th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Hey, luis!

  286. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    # Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    It is mind boggling that the great Joba debate is going on again here for the 106th time. Joba is a RP now, Cashman has said this dozens of times. Get over it.

    ————————————————

    It goes on everywhere not just here. If he was given a fair shot as a starter it wouldn’t be discussed.

  287. Red Robin December 26th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Where’s everybody ?

  288. blake December 26th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Trisha,

    Hope you’re well andget has aa great christmas! …..Don’t see how Javy has anything to do with Kennedy….

  289. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    He had more than 1 shot in ’08 and ’09, was inconsistent and then injured. Yankee brass determined his stuff was better suited for the pen.

    Is Cashman going to change because of fan sentiment ?………………..Not likely. Only Joba himself can change things through his performance going forward.

  290. RhapsodyInBlue December 26th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    I wonder if red rectum wore red leotards and pointy green elf shoes for the holidays like the rest of the trolls.

  291. CompassRosy December 26th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    yikes!

    http://tinyurl.com/7gdu78n

    I wonder if there is precedent for MLB discipline for incidents in Winter Leagues….

  292. austinmac December 26th, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    I remember Cashman saying the team has flexibility in their payroll. That doesn’t seem to exist anymore as all ideas to improve the team are met with budgetary restrictions. Matthews says they are not in on Kuroda as they have no room in the budget.

    All I can say is “Wow.” I believe they are making a large mistake. They will see the consequences if the team doesn’t get to the playoffs. They are not guaranteed 3 plus millions fans.

  293. Pat M. December 26th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Ian Kennedy is a fine Major League pitcher who in the end will earn well over 100 million dollars and could win 200 games…..So keep that in mind when evaluating his merits…..Hope all had a great Christmas and it’s time for me to start the late December practice of writing and typing the new upcoming year….2012, 2012, 2012

  294. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    CompassRosy December 26th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Does he really give a hoot about being suspended from Winter League ball ? Probably not and he will probably be safer for not being down there like the Nats catcher.

  295. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    He had more than 1 shot in ’08 and ’09, was inconsistent and then injured. Yankee brass determined his stuff was better suited for the pen.
    ————————————————

    So 44 starts is enough of a sample to determine he couldn’t start.

    Aj’s stuff is better suited for the pen why isn’t he a reliever? Hell David Price had electric stuff in the pen when he struggled in his first yr of starting why didn’t the Rays leave him as a bullpen guy.

  296. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    austinmac December 26th, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    I remember Cashman saying the team has flexibility in their payroll. That doesn’t seem to exist anymore as all ideas to improve the team are met with budgetary restrictions. Matthews says they are not in on Kuroda as they have no room in the budget.

    ———————————

    I’ve seen posters on RAB claimed the budgetary restrictions are driven by their limited partners.

  297. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    claim*

  298. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Give Cashman a call (718)293-4300 and let him know your feelings. Probably won’t do any good though.

  299. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    # Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    Give Cashman a call (718)293-4300 and let him know your feelings. Probably won’t do any good though.

    ——————————-

    Oh I get it every move Cashman makes is right and no one can question him.

  300. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    dont know how a guy who averages 3.9 bb is considered to have the right stuff for the bp.

  301. BIG AL December 26th, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    You know what kind of off season it is when Cashman and the Yankees do nothing, and the bloggers have nothing to talk about, except 1 and 2 year old stories, lol. :)

  302. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    # Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    dont know how a guy who averages 3.9 bb is considered to have the right stuff for the bp.

    —————————————

    Doesn’t matter he stuff would play better in the pen. That’s the excuse Cashman gave when it came to Joba.

  303. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Never said he is always right or perfect, no GM is. He gets paid a few million dollars a year to make the calls, he is the decision maker, whatever you, me or the guy down the street thinks doesn’t mean anything.

  304. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    he=his

  305. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    # Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Never said he is always right or perfect, no GM is. He gets paid a few million dollars a year to make the calls, he is the decision maker, whatever you, me or the guy down the street thinks doesn’t mean anything.

    ————————————

    True but he continues to fail at evaluating and developing pitching. And he has been been so for 14-15 yrs. The last great homegrown pitcher he had he inherited from Skip and Co.

  306. CompassRosy December 26th, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Does he really give a hoot about being suspended from Winter League ball
    =======

    Hence my question about precedent in MLB…

  307. BIG AL December 26th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    “True but he continues to fail at evaluating and developing pitching. And he has been been so for 14-15 yrs. The last great homegrown pitcher he had he inherited from Skip and Co.”

    ************************************************************

    Cashman has only had full control for the past 4-5 years, and in that time frame has rebuilt a depleted farm system. That system is about to yield, what very well may be, the foundation of the Yankees SP for many years to come.

    It’s OK to say what you will about Cashman, but at least get the facts right.

  308. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Remember the plan is patience…………….

    I would venture to guess that very soon you will see some home grown talent emerge from the farm to go along with Nova. In that same thought, the same guys on the farm have a better chance of becoming a SP than Joba does.

  309. BIG AL December 26th, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    CompassRosy December 26th, 2011 at 2:43 pm
    Does he really give a hoot about being suspended from Winter League ball
    =======

    Hence my question about precedent in MLB…

    ************************************************************

    I can’t see the MLBPA allowing him to be subject to any action for what he did outside of MLB. If the winter league throws him out, fine, but again MLB should stay out of it.

  310. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    # Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Remember the plan is patience…………….

    I would venture to guess that very soon you will see some home grown talent emerge from the farm to go along with Nova. In that same thought, the same guys on the farm have a better chance of becoming a SP than Joba does.

    —————————————-

    They probably do have a better chance but with Cashman and company guiding the career of the next wave of pitchers how do we know they won’t suffer the same fate. I like Nova but he has to do it again.

  311. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    so i look back in my lifetime and see this long string of great starting pitchers developed by the system:

    1964 Mel Stotlemyre
    1975 Ron Guidry
    1995 Andy Pettitte

    that the list.
    cashman is really breaking a great tradition here, isnt he?

  312. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    # BIG AL December 26th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    “True but he continues to fail at evaluating and developing pitching. And he has been been so for 14-15 yrs. The last great homegrown pitcher he had he inherited from Skip and Co.”

    ************************************************************

    Cashman has only had full control for the past 4-5 years, and in that time frame has rebuilt a depleted farm system. That system is about to yield, what very well may be, the foundation of the Yankees SP for many years to come.

    It’s OK to say what you will about Cashman, but at least get the facts right.

    —————————————

    My facts are straight he has rebuilt the farm system but has struggled to produce a viable homegrown starter that last more than a couple of yrs. They screwed up Wang’s rehab, Joba is a middle reliever, Hughes is entering a make or break season, Kennedy is pitching very well for the Dbacks(but we got Granderson in return so it worked out).

  313. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    # Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    so i look back in my lifetime and see this long string of great starting pitchers developed by the system:

    1964 Mel Stotlemyre
    1975 Ron Guidry
    1995 Andy Pettitte

    that the list.
    cashman is really breaking a great tradition here, isnt he?

    ————————————

    His plan was to rely on the farm was it not. The big 3 was suppose to produce at least one guy that they could hang their hat on. Two high prized arms are left and there is nothing but questions with both of them.

  314. BIG AL December 26th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    If the Yankees develop ML SP, and they are traded for other needs, that does not negate the fact they did develop that talent. As now, the farm system is heavy with quality SP, and some will have to be moved to fill needs in areas our system is light. That’s just how it works. You seem to forget the Yankees have develpoed several good ML pitchers in the past few years, and the fact they are pitching elsewhere does not make a difference, they were still a product of the Yankees farm system.

    As for Joba, remember MO was a SP that was almost traded because he stunk as a SP, and when he came back up and became a RP is when his career to where he is today started.

    You seem to dismiss Joba, Hughes, Nova, Robertson, Noesi that will, and have contribute to the Yankees winning ball games.

  315. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    throughout my lifetime they have gone back and forth between trying to develop their own guys, then making trades or getting fa’s because they needed to. this is just more of the same. first you try to see what you get from the minors, then you get what you need from fa. the point is that they are not an organization that develops great pitchers, no matter who is in charge.
    but i have a question for you. obvously cashman isn’t going anywhere and he’s not going to change, so what are you hoping for? do you want them to trade joba, hughes, manny and dellin because cash cant develop pitchers?

  316. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    ‘They probably do have a better chance but with Cashman and company guiding the career of the next wave of pitchers how do we know they won’t suffer the same fate. I like Nova but he has to do it again’

    ————

    We probably don’t know. Cashman and Co. more than likely have learned from past mistakes, not bringing them up to soon, letting them accumulate innings in the ml, not bowing to exorbitant trade demands and giving their best prospects away etc.

    Why wouldn’t Nova continue to excel ? He faced many teams multiple times last year and adjusted just fine. Try looking at the glass being half full.

  317. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    dont know how a guy who averages 3.9 bb is considered to have the right stuff for the bp.

    Uh why would a guy who walks 3.9 be considered for a starter??? Robertson walks that many. Valverde. Many guys in the BP can get away with walks because they have more dominant stuff on a short term basis than starters. Its the exact kind of guy you stuff in the pen.

  318. BIG AL December 26th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Later Y’all.

  319. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    another thing about cashman, during my lifetime there is no doubt that the team has the best record under him than under any gm. most of my lifetime they sucked, under george and before. you dont know what ‘sucks’ is until you go through 1965-74. its not as easy as it looks with hindsight. the yankees have been the biggest spenders just about every year but got crap for it most of the time before cashman.

  320. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    He had more than 1 shot in ’08 and ’09, was inconsistent and then injured. Yankee brass determined his stuff was better suited for the pen.

    Hughes has been just as inconsistent and MORE injured AND he was better in the pen than Joba was. Why has Hughes gotten 1 million chances more than Joba to start?

  321. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    but i have a question for you. obvously cashman isn’t going anywhere and he’s not going to change, so what are you hoping for? do you want them to trade joba, hughes, manny and dellin because cash cant develop pitchers?

    ————————————-

    What I’m hoping for:
    Hughes somehow turns it around
    the B’s don’t get messed with
    Joba gets traded so he can start somewhere

  322. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    If the Yankees develop ML SP, and they are traded for other needs, that does not negate the fact they did develop that talent.

    This is true, but its also true that the Yankees haven’t developed a starter that has stuck around and been good for the Yankees.

    That kind of stinks.

  323. ron December 26th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    It has been reported in several places that the Yankees and Red Sox are actively pursuing free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda, but the baseball sources I have spoken with over the past week say it is unlikely the Yankees will make a bid on the 37-year-old former Dodger.

    The reason? Once again, the luxury-tax.

    Kuroda is known to want in the neighborhood of between $12 million and $13 million for a one- or two-year deal, which may not seem like much when you consider the Yankees are paying A.J. Burnett $16.5 million a year for each of the remaining two years on his contract.

    But when you add in the 40 percent luxury tax surcharge, that pushes Kuroda’s price to around $17 million a season, which may be a bit much to gamble on an aging pitcher with a 41-46 career record (3.45 ERA) who has never pitched in the American League.

    You can believe this or not believe it, but a team source told me last week that as much as the Yankees like Kuroda (they tried to trade for him last year), “We simply don’t have the money to pay him.”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....-on-kuroda

  324. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    # Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    He had more than 1 shot in ’08 and ’09, was inconsistent and then injured. Yankee brass determined his stuff was better suited for the pen.

    Hughes has been just as inconsistent and MORE injured AND he was better in the pen than Joba was. Why has Hughes gotten 1 million chances more than Joba to start?

    ———–

    Good question maybe it’s something the scenes but even it is was that doesn’t make sense either since Aj is still given a rotation spot.

  325. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Not being able to afford Kuroda (who is very good 3.23 ERA the past 2 seasons, and sorry either the NL West hitters are doing something to take advantage accounting for the high OPS or the NL west pitchers are doing something to take advantage, it can’t be both, so give Kuroda and Kennedy some credit for pitching to strong records) is probably the biggest joke ever.

    They are already over the luxury tax threshold for next year so just pay it. Its a 1 year deal, the money comes right off and the yankees can go back to being stingy for 2014.

  326. ron December 26th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    I don’t think the lux tax bothers the yankees as much as the money going into other owners pockets,then seeing mlb hand out money to the rangers,etc…

  327. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    BIG AL December 26th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    You seem to forget the Yankees have develpoed several good ML pitchers in the past few years, and the fact they are pitching elsewhere does not make a difference, they were still a product of the Yankees farm system.

    As for Joba, remember MO was a SP that was almost traded because he stunk as a SP, and when he came back up and became a RP is when his career to where he is today started.

    You seem to dismiss Joba, Hughes, Nova, Robertson, Noesi that will, and have contribute to the Yankees winning ball games.
    —————————————————–

    No I’m sorry they don’t get pats on their back for Kennedy or Melancon. The Expos didn’t bows for Randy Johnson. Sure did they coming from the Yankee system yes but IMO more credit for their development goes to the teams that turned their early careers around.

    Mo became the greatest reliever of all time when Joba comes back he’s going to be a mop guy/5th inning reliever. He doesn’t make or break the team.

    Not dismissing just pointing out the facts which is they have struggled when it comes to developing a starter.

  328. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    # Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    ‘They probably do have a better chance but with Cashman and company guiding the career of the next wave of pitchers how do we know they won’t suffer the same fate. I like Nova but he has to do it again’

    ————

    We probably don’t know. Cashman and Co. more than likely have learned from past mistakes, not bringing them up to soon, letting them accumulate innings in the ml, not bowing to exorbitant trade demands and giving their best prospects away etc.

    Why wouldn’t Nova continue to excel ? He faced many teams multiple times last year and adjusted just fine. Try looking at the glass being half full.

    —————-

    Because he pitched out of his mind last yr. I’m not looking for him to fail but it’s not unreasonable to think there will be some regression.

  329. ron December 26th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    It’s not a lux tax,it’s a yankees tax.

    Out of the 200 or so million paid into it since it’s conception,the yankees paid in the neighborhood of of 85% of it.

  330. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Paying over $ 200 million since the inception of the LT is a lot of coin. I think Hal has had enough of donating to line other clubs pockets. By 2014 when the rate changes excessive spending by the NYY will be done with related to the LT imo.

  331. luis December 26th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Tom,

    Sorry i didn’t answered before, had to do some errands. How are you?

  332. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    ‘Because he pitched out of his mind last yr. I’m not looking for him to fail but it’s not unreasonable to think there will be some regression’.

    ————

    No one can predict the future. He is healthy and confident, barring injury, who’s to say he won’t win 15 games or more next year with that offense and BP. No one knows.

    He is on a good team and is surrounded by a very good supporting cast.

  333. Duh Innings December 26th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    I’m happy with the Yankees, offseason moves, that Oakland’s 1-2 of Gonzalez-Cahill are out of the American League, and the Angels signed Wilson (Wilson on the Angels means the the Yanks can plan for the Angels as well as the Tigers and possibly the Rangers for the postseason.)

    I will call Yu Darvish Whu? Darvish until he posts a sub-4 ERA in at least 30 GS and 200 IP.

    Boston’s pitching is in shambles. Lester is the only starter who’ll be a lock to be sub-4 ERA good. Beckett better repeat or better his 2011 and Bucholz better return to 2010 form or the Red Sox won’t have a chance to win the wildcard (the best they can hope for with that closer-less crap bullpen.) Lackey is out for the year, Matsuzaka and Wakefield suck, and the Red Sox have no one in their farm system who could be a capable #4 or #5 starter.

    Hopefully the Yanks will bring back Jones and Chavez, two multiple-Gold Glove veterans with pop and over 600 homeruns combined who can still play solid defense and hit ‘em out. I figure Jones will smack 15 out, Chavez 5-10, and the two should combine for at least 20 HR if healthy.

    I’d give Cesar Cabral the second lefthanded reliever job and see if he can keep or lose it.

    My 2012 Yankees to start the season:

    Rotation – Sabathia/Burnett/Nova/Garcia/Hughes (The Yanks could get a #2 starter via midseason trade, a #3 starter if any two guys after CC pitch like #3s.)

    Bullpen – Rivera/Robertson/Soriano/Logan/Wade/Cabral/Whoever wins the final bullpen slot out of spring training (ideally a farm system pitcher)

    Bench – Romine/Nunez/Chavez/Jones

    Starting Nine/Batting Order:

    Gardner LF L
    Jeter SS R
    Cano 2B L
    Rodriguez 3B R
    Granderson CF L
    Teixiera 1B S (have him and Granderson switch places if he shows he can hit .280 or better again because .250 or worse isn’t cutting it in the #5 unless you want A-Rod to lead the AL if not MLB in intentional walks cuz no one’s pitching to A-Rod with Teixiera protecting him but batting .250 or less)
    Swisher RF S
    Martin C R
    Montero DH S (could switch places with Martin if he hits well enough)

  334. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    # Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    ‘Because he pitched out of his mind last yr. I’m not looking for him to fail but it’s not unreasonable to think there will be some regression’.

    ————

    No one can predict the future. He is healthy and confident, barring injury, who’s to say he won’t win 15 games or more next year with that offense and BP. No one knows.

    He is on a good team and is surrounded by a very good supporting cast.

    —————-

    But even with all those things going for him he can still take a step back. I hope he doesn’t because I like him

  335. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Of course he could take a step back or a step up and win 20. Point being you don’t know and neither do I.

  336. LGY December 26th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    You can believe this or not believe it, but a team source told me last week that as much as the Yankees like Kuroda (they tried to trade for him last year), “We simply don’t have the money to pay him.”

    ————

    Ridiculous. WTF Hal.

  337. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    # LGY December 26th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    You can believe this or not believe it, but a team source told me last week that as much as the Yankees like Kuroda (they tried to trade for him last year), “We simply don’t have the money to pay him.”

    ————

    Ridiculous. WTF Hal.

    ————-

    Translation our limited partners need us to pull in the the spending a bit

  338. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Translation our limited partners need us to pull in the the spending a bit

    Limited partners = limited franchise :(

  339. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    yankee fans demand an unlimited budget and winning every year. problem is neither is possible and the former doesnt guarantee the latter.

  340. m December 26th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Happy New Year, everyone!

  341. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    yankee fans demand an unlimited budget and winning every year. problem is neither is possible and the former doesnt guarantee the latter.

    I’ve been one of the ones on here who has said the Yankees have a budget, even if self imposed, which limits their choices and thus they should be making smart choices. The problem is that it appears the budget is thrown to the wind for dumb stuff (Soriano) and is actually limiting them from making smart choices (getting another proven pitcher).

  342. Best To Ever Do It December 26th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    # Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Translation our limited partners need us to pull in the the spending a bit

    Limited partners = limited franchise :(
    ————-

    I guess they’re balling on a budget from here on out. Those are the breaks I guess.

  343. Ys Guy December 26th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    the new collective bargaining agreement gives the yankees a much harder shove to get under the luxury tax, you can’t be surprised they are trying to get under it. Last year they basically had the same team and making the PS was never in doubt, so they are willing to keep spending where it is. it’s still the highest in the majors.

    of course the plan changes every offseason and if they don’t make the WS this year, they will likely feel a push just as hard or harder in the other direction and change course. As it is, they are likely to earn the same revenues next season without making any changes.

  344. DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Once July 31 approaches and Hal and Comp can see Exactly what the Yankees need to make a run at #28, they will spend and or trade whatever necessary to fill their wish list. Till then, Hal is gonna sit on basically the same personnel that garnered the best record in the AL.

  345. Tar December 26th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    “Ya know, you could just look up who Kennedy has faced instead of making the NL West sound like the Gulf Coast League.
    Average OPS of opponents faced
    2010:
    Kennedy: .770
    Hughes: .753″

    LGY

    Just catching up, how is this possible when IPK faces a pitcher and Hughes does not? Of course I can’t figure out BR enough to go there, can you provide the link.

  346. Giuseppe Franco December 26th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 26th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Once July 31 approaches and Hal and Comp can see Exactly what the Yankees need to make a run at #28, they will spend and or trade whatever necessary to fill their wish list.

    ———-

    Um, no they won’t trade “whatever is necessary.”

    Were you paying attention last July 31st? They made no moves because prices were too high.

    If they can fill a void at an acceptable price, they will make moves. Otherwise, they will promote from within.

  347. J. Alfred Prufrock December 26th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    Can’t say I understand the fan who has no interest in developing from within, nor sees the link between doing so and more sustained success. In fact, a club regenerated by a deep system is not just a prudent approach to success, it’s the only road in these times.

    I’m not sure how this escapes people, even if they don’t think it’s exciting to see a homegrown youngster come up through our ranks and then make the cut (I also don’t really get why that’s not exciting, but whatever…)

  348. tomingeorgia December 26th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    JAP,
    I’m with you. I loved seeing Nova emerge last year, more than I’d have enjoyed seeing some multi-million free agent. I’m fine with seeing what happens with our home-grown kids.

  349. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Just catching up, how is this possible when IPK faces a pitcher and Hughes does not?

    Because Hughes faces the Orioles and IPK does not :twisted: Lots of things can skew your opponent OPS. Pitching vs a ‘get away’ day or ‘house money’ lineup. Facing teams when their better players get a day off for other reasons or injury. Not facing good teams. Toronto and Tampa Bay and Baltimore were all about league average or below. Hughes doesnt face the Yankees (where most of the Beast in AL beast comes from).

    You can look at the data here: http://www.baseballprospectus......id=1045906

    Hughes .264 .326 .416 vs Kennedy .264 .330 .413

    A mere glance at the gamelog sees that Hughes faced TBR 3 times, OAK twice, SEA twice, Minnesota, Cleveland, Balt twice, CHW once and toronto once.

    BOS 3 times and Detroit once. So 4 hard teams out of the 17 games. Easy to see how his opposing batters could be seen as being weak.

  350. J. Alfred Prufrock December 26th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    # tomingeorgia December 26th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    JAP,
    I’m with you. I loved seeing Nova emerge last year, more than I’d have enjoyed seeing some multi-million free agent. I’m fine with seeing what happens with our home-grown kids.
    ///

    Yeah, tom, that’s the way I feel, also. Seeing the kids live does make them more known to me than some fans experience, but you’d think even the high ranking of our system and that of our high-end guys would get the blood flowing of the Yankee fan a bit.

    Also, Happy Holidays to you, tom! Always enjoy it when I read back and see you’ve come in and posted. Hope you had a splendid Christmas.

  351. DaSaint007 December 26th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    This commentary about Kennedy is ironic. On the one hand folks are lamenting his recent success, considering he was brought up through the system.

    On the other hand, folks are clamoring for the signing of Kuroda, as opposed to bringing up one of those Kennedy-like arms Cashman has been developing. Considering we have Nova, Noesi, Phelps, Warren and Mitchell laying in wait, why not see what we’ve got as opposed to seeking salvation from the outside?

  352. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    On the other hand, folks are clamoring for the signing of Kuroda, as opposed to bringing up one of those Kennedy-like arms Cashman has been developing. Considering we have Nova, Noesi, Phelps, Warren and Mitchell laying in wait, why not see what we’ve got as opposed to seeking salvation from the outside?

    None of those arms are Kennedy-like. Look at what IPK did to the minors. Kuroda for 1 year gives our top pitching prospects (the next IPK/hughes/joba) another season to get innings. Banuelos and Betances need innings. Nova was able to come up with 180 innings under his belt and it showed, he didnt really tire down the stretch.

    Noesi needs 1 year in the minors because they messed up his innings last year. Phelps, Warren, and Mitchell arent as good as IPK was and will likely get a shot at some point this year even with Kuroda.

  353. Carlo December 26th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    The plan is patience. We will not sign guys who want to be paid to play and we will not trade prospects who can walk and chew gum for guys either. The plan is patience. The payroll needs to be down by 2014 so spending money on one and two year deals for 2012 and 2013 only makes that impossible…….somehow. Bleacher seats going to $25 in 2013 from $12 in 2009.

  354. Carlo December 26th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Phelps, warren, and mitchell aren’t even the poor mans ian kennedy……they are the dead broke I’ll mow your lawn for meth version.

  355. Pat M. December 26th, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Good point Face…..

  356. ron December 26th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    First off,cashman has to get the green light that our pitching prospects are ready to go.
    That happens in layers,not the snap of a finger.

    Also,we have to compete,and pitchers struggle for a few years,honing their craft,and they still might not be more than league average,or worse.

    Nova,who is our number 2 pitcher,as it looks now,has to go up against other teams number 2 pitchers.

    Cj wilson,lester,shields,etc…
    Same thing if we get to the playoffs.

    Lester is better than every pitcher except cc,so with a number 3 or 4 pitcher masquerading as a number 2,you can see the disadvantage we might be at.

    You could be in a situation where some teams number 3 pitchers are as good as our number 2 pitchers.

    Cashman is smart enough to see that we need a better pitcher behind cc,for him to feel comfortable.

    Now that might be nova,hughes,etc…,but it’s not yet.

    Hughes will get better,how much remains to be seen.

  357. Carlo December 26th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    Ron – cashman didn’t see it in the 2011 offseason. He didn’t see it in 2011 at the deadline. He hasn’t seen it yet this offseason. What makes you think even if he sees something so clearly obvious, that he will do anything about it?

  358. DaSaint007 December 26th, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    All those who say that Warren, Phelps, and Mitchell aren’t of the caliber of Kennedy must have predicted Kennedy’s success while he was in the system, right?

    And they predicted Nova’s success too I’m sure. Just knew he would win 16 games right?

    Point is, there is talent in the system, and the only way to see what they’re worth on the ML level is to let them pitch. The rotation is already set with CC, AJ (no, he’s not getting traded), and Hughes. Nova has earned his chance at another slot, and Garcia is the insurance policy – in case any of the above falters or becomes injured. That said, Noesi, Mitchell, Warren, and Phelps should get every opportunity to compete in ST.

    Not saying that we couldn’t sign some other ‘warm bodies’, such as Colon, Ohlendorf, Galarraga, or others as depth, but it’s unlikely that Kuroda or Jackson or Oswalt will get signed, as they’re unlikely to accept just a 1 year deal.

  359. ron December 26th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    You ideally wan’t 2 frontline pitchers as your 1-2,and a decent number 3 pitcher.
    Hughes,nova would be better slotted as our number 3 pitchers,and that is only going by what other teams have.

    Then you can play with the 4th & 5th rotation spots,but even if your 4th & 5th pitchers struggle enough,it can be a problem.

  360. DaSaint007 December 26th, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    For the record, I liked IPK better than Hughes, because I felt he would be a swing-and-miss type, and frankly I liked his mound presence. Not saying that Hughes can’t be just as good or even better, I surely hope so. The team has invested much time in him, and I think he’ll have a bounce-back season.

  361. ron December 26th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    carlo:

    See what?

  362. Carlo December 26th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Ron – sees the fact that our #2 starter is likely a #4 for most of the top AL teams and the fact that we don’t even know who are proverbial #2 is.

  363. Jerkface December 26th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    All those who say that Warren, Phelps, and Mitchell aren’t of the caliber of Kennedy must have predicted Kennedy’s success while he was in the system, right?

    And they predicted Nova’s success too I’m sure. Just knew he would win 16 games right?

    What does this even mean?? Warren, phelps, and mitchell aren’t of the caliber of IPK because THEY AREN’T. Look at their stats. IPK dominated the minors just like Hughes and Joba. Career 1.95 ERA in the minors. Over 9 k/9 under 3 bb/9. Mitchell Warren and Phelps do not come close to that. It does not mean they cannot or will not succeed in the majors. You referred to them as ‘kennedy-like’ arms which clearly is not true. Unless a ‘kennedy-like’ arm is ‘anyone in the minors because anyone can come up and potentially be good we just have to find out’.

  364. ron December 26th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    Maybe not number 4,more like 3.

    All i am saying is that when other teams have lester,wilson,shields as their number 2 pitchers,you always try to get better,if you can,and if it makes sense.

    Cashman said so himself that he has been after pitching for 2 years,and you can tell it is a pitcher to go alongside cc.

    I believe he has tried & nothing made sense,credit there for not overpaying,even though cj wilson was a decent enough number 2,imo.
    For 15 million a year,for what even a decent pitcher goes for these days,i thought the contract was reasonable,but 1 to many years.

    If the yankees weren’t struggling with the yankees tax,wilson is a yankee,and our number 2 pitcher now.

  365. Carlo December 26th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    Ron – not sure how you can say that about wilson. The yankees never even made an offer, thus its not like they had a value set for him and he found a better offer elsewhere. We never made an offer. Not saying that was right or wrong, but while cashman says “he needs pitching”, his actions speak more to a guy who is content to do nothing while feigning effort to improve the team.

  366. Carlo December 26th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    There are two ways to cut payroll:

    1 – “we’re cutting payroll, we can’t spend”
    2 – “we’re adressing our needs, we made the playoffs last year, we can’t find ways to improve over two offseasons and a trade deadline”

  367. ron December 26th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    I had a feeling kennedy might come back to haunt us.

    I talked to a friend this morning about when that trade wen’t down.

    I said back then that i did not like it,and he reminded me today about exactly what i said.

    He said,i remeber you not liking it one bit.

  368. ron December 26th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Carlo:

    I am almost positive,if not for our bloated payroll,wilson is a yankee.

    Not saying he is the best number 2 pitcher,but a real good pitcher.

  369. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    blake, the reason I mentioned Javy Vaszquez is that he had a 16-win season with the Bravos before returning to the Yanks and many were of the belief that he was going to be the 2nd best in the rotation, behind CC. And Javy did his work in a much more formidible division than the NL West, the weakest sister of the majors!

    You said that Kennedy would definitely be the Yankees 2nd starter were he to come to the Yanks. Therein lies my comparison.

    My mantra (and I see it as immutable truth) is that one cannot make unequivocal judgments about a player’s body of work with any one team and have it automatically transfer to another team, especially with pitchers, and especially with pitchers going from the NL to the AL. I have history on my side on that one of course. Because Kennedy has pitched well for Arizona does not necessarily mean that he would pitch well for the Yankees.

    Not everyone is cut out for the Bronx. I personally see Kennedy as a candy ass. I think he will have great success in the NL, especially in the NL West, where you can function well as a mellow dude.

    By the way, I went on record as not wanting Vazquez back with the Yankees and seeing it as a mistake. I remember Javy having the same kind of laissez-faire attitude when his pitching was going downhill in his first stint with the Yanks. To me that shows a lack of mental toughness or certainly a lack of awareness! Neither one works well in the Bronx.

  370. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    * Wilson was too expensive an option for the the Yanks this year.

    * Cashman is sticking with patience and his homegrown development.

    * Don’t think the Yanks will spend big with the LT increase coming in two years.

    * The Boss is gone and the spending days with no limitations are over.

    * Hal is a businessman and is tired of paying to line the pockets of other teams

    Why is that so hard for some to understand ??

  371. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    I guess I’m still sold on Hughes because I’ve seen the version of Hughes that is strong, mentally tough, and virtually unhittable. I am of the mind that players don’t lose their ability overnight. I don’t know what has caused the bumps in the road for Hughes but I find it hard to believe that he can’t get back to the level of excellece we’ve seen already. It isn’t like he’s 35 years old!

  372. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 26th, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    “I had a feeling kennedy might come back to haunt us.”

    ron, he had a great season pitching in the NL and in its weakest division. I don’t know that it means much more than that, nor does it mean it is coming back to haunt us. I’m not surprised when any of the Yanks minor leaguers have success because I don’t think the Yankees would have drafted them if they didn’t see some kind of promise. But success outside of the Bronx doesn’t necessarily mean there would be sucess iinside of the Bronx.

  373. mick December 26th, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    The spending days with George were hit and miss.
    You can’t be impetuous and expect positive results to be guaranteed.

  374. m December 26th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Personally, I never felt like Kennedy would find his way back into the rotation. He’s turned out to be a good ML pitcher, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he would have “arrived” had he stayed with the Yankees. They just don’t have a lot of slots to tinker with.

    Anyone here have an Insider account? Could you post Olney’s top 10 rotations?

    He’s asking if the Angels have the best rotation in baseball. Which is silly. We all know that it’s Boston Philadelphia.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....ations-mlb

  375. mick December 26th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    I personally see Kennedy as a candy ass.
    ============================
    Richie Cunningham or Alfred E. Newman, what me worry?

  376. blake December 26th, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    If the Yankees want to have a budget thats fine….they have every right to set it at a level they are comfortable with and stick to it…..however if they are going to then they need to work more efficiently so they can get the most out of that number.

    That means….extending players when appropriate ……cutting bait on bad contracts when appropriate ……and not wasting money on Sorianos etc.

    Trying to save money where you can and planning how to spend it is basically what a budget is all about……not just spending until you hit your limit

    You can’t operate on a set budget half the time ……and then do things other times that suggest you aren’t.

    I will say this…..winning is everything to the Yankees…..it feeds the machine and makes the whole thing run. If they don’t win…..and fans start to get the sense that there is anything less than a 100% comittment to that goal……then they’ll start to work Yankee games out of their own “budgets”…….not saying that’s right or wrong…..but its the way it is.

  377. Giuseppe Franco December 26th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    First off, Lester is still the Red Sox #1 guy regardless how last season finished.

    Beckett had one of his best seasons after a few erratic ones. He’s not as consistent as Lester.

    Secondly, the RS have to make the postseason, something they haven’t done the last two years, before I worry about the Yanks matching up against them in a potential playoff series.

    A lot can and probably will change over the next 9 months. Someone could emerge from within or via trade/free agency to take the #2 slot in the rotation.

    I’m not going to lose any sleep at night worrying about it now.

  378. blake December 26th, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    Javy didn’t stink because he came back to the AL or because of NY……he stunk because for whatever reason he lost 3-4 mph on his fastball over the winter…..and just couldn’t figure out how to make up for it.

    Some folks aren’t cut out for NY…..the sample wasn’t nearly big enough to make that determination about Kennedy however…….the difference between the leagues is greatly overstated as there just isn’t that big of one anymore.

    Pithers will always have slightly better numbers in the NL because they face pitchers instead of DHs……but that really doesnt matter…..

  379. RadioKev December 26th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    People are still talking about Kennedy…unreal…

    You don’t talk about politics or religion at the dinner table…on here it should be about IPK.

  380. Pat M. December 26th, 2011 at 11:36 pm

    Maybe some here should stay up next season and watch Ian Kennedy pitch and then you’ll see that he can pitch……

  381. Your Worst Nightmare December 26th, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    If the Yankees want to have a budget thats fine….they have every right to set it at a level they are comfortable with and stick to it…..however if they are going to then they need to work more efficiently so they can get the most out of that number.

    That means….extending players when appropriate ……cutting bait on bad contracts when appropriate ……and not wasting money on Sorianos etc.

    =========

    They certainly would have more flexibility without:

    The ARod albatross contract with 6 more years to go.

    AJ’s huge deal with little return on their investment.

    The Soriano / Levine ‘gotta make a splash’ deal.

    What they have to spend may also be part of the reason that they have yet to fill the holes of Chavez and Jones, waiting them out to low ball them ? Filling those holes from the minors ? Or looking for other lower cost alternatives as camp gets closer ?

  382. Gary December 27th, 2011 at 6:37 am

    Morning, talked to several Yanks fans at several gatherings over Christmas. Pretty much all agreed that the Yanks are being too complaicent and too protective of their prospects. Outlooks have been reduced for the coming year. Of course being a fan and having reduced expectations will be attacked, but it’s how the people feel at least that I talked to.

    Off to B’fast and some errands

    Morning Blake, MTU, and Nova

  383. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:12 am

    Morning Gary.

    I don’t think it’s a sin to have reduced expectations, since most people had thought a new pitcher would have been added.

    But I think a couple of things. One is that the available pitchers were not such a major upgrade that they were worth Banuelos and/or Betances and/or Montero. I trust that the Yankees know their prospects very well. And my thinking is not that they have over-valued their prospects generally speaking, but that they set very strict parameters for who and how many to include in any potential trades.

    If they do end up being what everyone hopes they will be (and even if they end up being just a little less than that), and the Yankees traded them for a #2 or #3 starter, then the Yankees really lose on that deal, because they will have given up many more years of excellence for a year or two of just above mediocrity or just below excellence.

    There are maybe 2 or 3 pitchers in all of baseball that would be worth giving up 2 or 3 of your best prospects for (plus the throw-ins), and none of their current teams are going to give them up. Especially not with the new wild card set up.

    In addition, why put all the effort into building your farm system, if you are going to undervalue your very best prospects by trading them for injury risks, or pitchers whose numbers don’t seem to translate well to the AL or the Yankee Stadium? And most of the trades seemed to ask for 2 of 3 of Montero and the Bs. So, then what’s left if someone better comes on the market? No one – not one – available via trade this winter has been “Bs-worthy.”

    I think the Yankees are in decent shape, and I think they can still win their division with what they have, but I can see where others might be a little less confident. The other thing to remember is that the winter is not over; that there will be pitchers invited to camp that may surprise, like Garcia and Colon did last season; and maybe, maybe someone will say what the hey and take on AJ. Because unless someone does that, there is no room for a Kuroda unless one is willing to put Nova in AAA, and I don’t think he deserves that.

  384. RhapsodyInBlue December 27th, 2011 at 7:12 am

    For a young kid who was such a lousy pitcher one would wonder how Kennedy blew through the Yankee farm system his rookie season. He was drafted in 2006 with Betances.

  385. blake December 27th, 2011 at 7:30 am

    He wasn’t lousy…..he was very good in the minors and was a college kid and they always love faster because they are older and more polished.
    Villa,

    I agree with all of that……however there are some things they could do without trading those guys…..but to this point they arr apparently saying they don’t have the money…

  386. blake December 27th, 2011 at 7:31 am

    *move faster*

  387. blake December 27th, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Basically it annoys me that ownership is crying poor now when they are a big reason the payroll is where it is……Cashman didn’t want to give Arod 275 million…..Cashman didn’t want to sign Soriano……and my guess is that Cashman would probably love to eat some salary to trade AJ.

    Ownership either needs to give Cashman the means to work around their screw ups…….or keep their nose out of the baseball operations.

  388. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:42 am

    blake -

    I think Cashman was clear that he was not going to address the bench right away.

    I haven’t heard them say they don’t have the money; what I’m hearing is they don’t want to spend their money on what is available.

    Unless you HAD to, would you buy a house you were less than happy with, or would you wait till something better came on the market (or more to your liking)? I think that’s the situation the Yankees are in. They don’t HAVE to buy a house right now, but if they right one came along, they’d be right on it.

  389. blake December 27th, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Villa,

    Is the house a one year deal? ;)

  390. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:49 am

    I also don’t think they’re crying poor so much as having had it with paying so much luxury tax.

    And, the only situation that fits with your scenario is the Soriano one last season. He was not needed.

    AJ was needed at the time, and there was every reason to think he’d do well for the Yankees.

    Re-signing ARod to that contract was perhaps a mistake, but you have to look in the context of when it happened – pre-PED, pre-hip, with what looked like a sure path to cleanly breaking the HR record. The money to be made by the Yankees would help them through ARod’s contract. PLUS I do believe it was before the Yankees were consciously trying to stay within a certain elastic budget.

    When the market has what the Yankees are looking for, they are amenable to spending the money. They simply don’t have that kind of need this season, regardless of what fans (who don’t have enough information to be making a judgment) think.

  391. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:50 am

    blake -

    Sadly, no. :)

  392. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:53 am

    And they do have some guys tied up in long-term contracts. That’s undeniable.

  393. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 7:53 am

    Good Morning.

    Is there too much risk in the rotation relative to what the cost of upgrading would be ?

    That’s the 64 thousand dollar question.

    Some say yes. Some no.

    That seems to be the crux of the argument around here.

    The Yankees seem to feel the answer is no.

    Some fans just do not agree.

    ;)

  394. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:53 am

    blake -

    Okay. Say you can get the house on a one-year deal, but you can’t sell the house you already have???

    That’s the situation with Kuroda/AJ.

  395. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 7:55 am

    Play ball !

    :)

  396. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:55 am

    MTU -

    We’re at their mercy. One hopes they have the better information.

  397. blake December 27th, 2011 at 7:56 am

    “Re-signing ARod to that contract was perhaps a mistake, but you have to look in the context of when it happened – pre-PED, pre-hip, with what looked like a sure path to cleanly breaking the HR record.”

    I’ve made this very same statement many times here…..I don’t blame them for re-signing Alex…..the problem was giving him the years and money they did.

    I also don’t blame them for signing AJ…..the problem there is not.moving him if they can.

    I understand the luxury tax situation……however as I said earlier if they are going to stick to a payroll number then they need to become more efficient or it’ll eventually start affecting the product on the field……maybe that’s what they are trying to do now

  398. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 7:58 am

    VN-

    No doubt in my mind they do.

    ;)

  399. blake December 27th, 2011 at 7:59 am

    “That’s the situation with Kuroda/AJ.”

    Agreed…..and I’ve said that they won’t sign Kuroda without being able to trade AJ. However if I made over 600 million a year……Id probably still sign Kuroda if I thought it would make my rotation better.

  400. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 8:01 am

    Okay. Say you can get the house on a one-year deal, but you can’t sell the house you already have???

    That’s the situation with Kuroda/AJ.
    =============================

    Burnett can be sold, but it will be what the mortgage banking industry refers to as a short sale.

  401. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 8:02 am

    blake -

    My thing is the “if they can” part with AJ. The Yankees seem to be trying to find takers, but they are simply not going to eat the entire contract or even close to the entire contract. And if they don’t move AJ, there are fans who will be angry as if they DIDN’T try.

    That’s where I get frustrated. Effort versus result. Not getting a result doesn’t mean the effort wasn’t there, and that seems to be an ongoing issue in all aspects of the game. A player not hitting, a pitcher having a tough year, etc. Fans lambaste the player or organization as if there were no effort being made.

  402. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 8:03 am

    dogface -

    Aren’t short sales fraught with all kinds of things that are not pleasant?

  403. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 8:07 am

    blake -

    Then, what do you do with AJ? I know people say to stick in him the bullpen, but I don’t see that as a good thing at all. He really would be demoted to a mop-up guy, no? Maybe not, but if not, where do you slot him?

    But perhaps more importantly, how does it affect the team? It’s an intangible that you really have to consider. I’m not sure in this situation you’d have a player saying, “Whatever skip wants to do is okay with me if it improves the team.”

    And you do have to consider it. You really do. The Yankees have worked hard to create a certain atmosphere on that team.

  404. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:09 am

    “That’s where I get frustrated. Effort versus result. Not getting a result doesn’t mean the effort wasn’t there, and that seems to be an ongoing issue in all aspects of the game”

    We don’t know if there is effort or a not…..they have been very complacent on AJ the last couple of years……just seemingly resign to the fate of throwing him out there every 5 days and then crossing their fingers and toes that he doesn’t not only lose the game…..but destroy the bullpen in the process……all because he makes a lot of money.

  405. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 8:11 am

    Id probably still sign Kuroda if I thought it would make my rotation better

    ===================

    I think most agree that what the Yankees could use is a true #2 starter. If they sign Kuroda, then they still need a true #2 starter.

    Worth noting that Kuroda, despite a good ERA, had some numbers that might lend themselves to concern about his ability to pitch in the big boy division.

    His groundball rate dropped to a career low 43%. His line drive rate was a career high 22%. He allowed 72 extra base hits after never allowing as many as 50 in any season. His homerun rate was the highest it’s ever been. Perhaps most importantly, his strand rate of 80% is almost certainly not sustainable (his career number was a shade under 69% prior to 2011).

    Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for.

  406. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Villa,

    If I couldn’t trade him then yea…..he’d be in a competition for a rotation spot in ST and if he lost he’d go to the pen. I think AJ could have success as a reliever as he’d only need two pitches……his stuff would likely play up a bit …..and he would only need to keep hi delivery intact for an inning or two instead of 6…….problem is that the Yanks don’t need short right handed relievers

  407. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Aren’t short sales fraught with all kinds of things that are not pleasant?

    =================================

    Right you are, Villa. They are quite unpleasant. Much the way paying Burnett $10M-$11M a season for the next 2 years to pitch somewhere else would be quite unpleasant for the Yankees.

  408. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Well, we’ve heard rumblings to the effect that the Yankees are seeing what they can do about moving AJ. But they’re not giving him away.

    In addition, if they can’t move him, they have to walk a fine line between being receptive to a deal and trying to “get rid of” him. It’s no biggie for the fans to talk about AJ as a “loser,” but if the Yankees can’t deal him, they have no choice but to work with him and hope for the best and for that to even have a hair of a chance of happening, the player can’t feel unwanted. It is one of the reasons the Yankees go out of their way to talk about how hard AJ works, and how accountable he’s been.

    There are nuances here. And players are people.

  409. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 8:15 am

    dogface -

    Yep. Especially if he somehow figures things out elsewhere…

  410. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:16 am

    NYYs first goal for the season, other than staying healthy is to win the division. No team in the division has done anything to improve their lot except open spots for their kids on the farm. Only the Angels have done much among potential contenders to improve themselves. NYYs need to get the payroll under control and stop other teams from using Yankee dollars to try and beat them. By the end of 2013, they will knock about $20 mil-$25 mil off of the payroll. Rivera and Burnett will be gone and and when adding in the pay increases, that leaves the numbers at about what I stated. Still doesn’t mean that NYYs won’t add needed players as they see fit. There’s a big difference in wants and needs, and other than the bench and maybe a bullpen piece, they don’t have needs.

    I keep seeing the same thing…trade Montero (for anybody). Do you think the Nats would have traded Jordon Zimmeremann or Strasburg and Harper for a Gio Gonzalez? Not in a million years, but, that’s what GMs wanted from NY and people on here were willing to cough it up. They wanted to spend up to $120 mil on a foreign import. Wantd to cough up another Burnett contract for Wilson or stupidly wanted Pujols or Fielder…with no place to play them. None of that made sense to the front office and others that had any common sense.

  411. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:18 am

    Dogface,

    Can’t argue that he’s not a #2…..however is he better than AJ? And would he make their rotation better? I think so……now I wouldn’t want him on a multiyear deal……but oj a one year deal I see it as very little risk.

    I think they need to be careful about the assumption that the rotation will hold together as well in 2012 as it did in 2011……..Im not saying it can’t……but a lot of things fell right for them pitching wise last season.

    I think they need can make the playoffs as is……however now more than ever you need to try and build a division winning team…..

  412. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:19 am

    AJ was one the best guys available at a time of need.

    He has turned out to be a rather expensive bauble.

    The irony is that most thought that his ability to stay healthy would be the bigeest concern.

    Not his performance. Especially after that great season in Toronto.

    I remember that even our own guys wanted him. They found hitting against him kind of brutal.

    AJ works hard; Has a great attitude ; Doesn’t try to hide from his failures.

    He’s lost some MPH on his heater.

    That, along with other issues, has caused him to be Forrest Gump’s box of chocolates when he takes the mound.

    It would be good if we could move on from AJ but I don’t see the Yankees eating enough to make that happen.

    Who knows maybe we’ll get lucky and good AJ will show up more often this season ?

  413. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Yep. Especially if he somehow figures things out elsewhere…

    ==============================

    That I actually don’t worry about. Guy turns 35 next week. He is what he is. A model of frustrating inconsistency.

  414. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:23 am

    There is a much better chance AJ gets worse than better.

  415. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:24 am

    Bring back Bartolo !

    :)

  416. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Anyway……one way or another Im excited about seeing a full season of Montero and seeing if Nova can repeat…..if Hughes can bounce back….if Noesi can assert himself…..if Manny and Betances can inch themselves closer etc…..

    I just think the divisional race may be tighter this year……people have written Boston off and the Rays rotation is going to be unreal 1-5…..so incremental improvements coukd mean ether difference in the division or playing a one game WC round.

  417. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:27 am

    Blake-

    Better hope he doesn’t.

    ;)

  418. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Colon is a good choice, assuming he wants to return. Use him in the Noesi role. If Colon doesn’t return and a cheap alternative isn’t available, DJ Mitchell would seem to be a logical choice.

  419. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Noesi will be in AAA, getting in his innings and working on improving his pitches, unless there’s an emergency.

  420. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Baseball season is a long Symphony with a crescendo ending.

    The Yankees do fine with the first 3 movements but they seem to have a little trouble with the ending lately.

    Then again so do most teams.

    Gotta think they’ll get it right soon enough.

    They have 27 to their credit. More Mozart and Ludwig Van’s than anyone else.

    :)

  421. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:34 am

    I think Noesi is ready now…….he’s almost 25 years old…..he needs to get started or he’s going to be learning to pitch at the big league level in his late 20s…..that’s tough to do and really cuts short a career.

    If the Yanks feel like Noesi is as good as AJ or better now……then they should put him in the rotation and see where it goes.

  422. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 8:36 am

    Can’t argue that he’s not a #2…..however is he better than AJ?

    =========================

    Probably. Not sure he’s “better enough” to justify eating $10M of Burnett’s contract and paying Kuroda $12M though. Burnett’s 2011 xFIP was 3.86. Kuroda’s was 3.56. Also consider where and against whom both guys are pitching and Kuroda’s abnormally high 2011 strand rate and they’re probably not as far apart as you’d think.

  423. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:38 am

    GB-

    Here’s my plan for Bartolo.

    Let him throw the heart out of the ball for the 1st half just like he did last season.

    In the meantime prepare Joba to start for part of a season.

    If and when Bartolo falters insert Joba to complete the season and put Colon in the pen.

    I know the Yankees won’t do it but I think it’s cheap and it just might work.

    ;)

  424. Tom in N.J. December 27th, 2011 at 8:38 am

    When the Yankees first signed A.J. I thought he’d be hurt half the time and pitch well when he was healthy.

  425. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    I wouldn’t be concerned about Noesi being almost 25. everybody’s secret love, Ian Kennedy is 27 years old and was 26 when he got his first full time starting gig in the ML

  426. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 8:43 am

    I think Noesi is ready now…….

    =========================

    Probably is talent/skill wise, but probably isn’t workload wise.

  427. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:44 am

    DF,

    Yea I think there is a significant difference there despite one year xFIP numbers. Kuroda x FIP has been in the 3s every year I think…..AJs has not.

  428. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Ian Kennedy is 27 years old and was 26 when he got his first full time starting gig in the ML

    ==========================

    Kennedy was 25 when he became a rotation regular (32 starts) for the D’backs in 2010.

  429. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Forget Kuroda.

    Yankees are not spending that kind of bread on him.

    Even on a one year deal.

    There are cheaper and better options IMO.

    ;)

  430. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:51 am

    I would stash Noesi at AAA as a starter this coming season.

    As soon as one of our guys falters or goes down he can back fill their spot.

    In the meantime Noesi stays stretched out and sharp.

  431. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    MTU, I’m not even thinking about Chamberlain until he’s ready to go, then, I’ll start wondering where he fits in. There are a couple of FAs that should be looked at and stored in AAA if or when needed. They’re pitching in Mexico now and have ERAs of between 0.60 and 0.90 (Luis Ayala and Oliver Perez),

  432. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    GB-

    Fine with me. I liked what Ayala brought. How are you thinking of Perez. Loogy or starter ? Is he cheap enough ?

  433. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    25 or 26…makes no difference. It still stands that Noesi has the talent and time is on his side.

  434. 108 stitches December 27th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:34 am
    I think Noesi is ready now…….he’s almost 25 years old…..he needs to get started or he’s going to be learning to pitch at the big league level in his late 20s…..that’s tough to do and really cuts short a career.

    If the Yanks feel like Noesi is as good as AJ or better now……then they should put him in the rotation and see where it goes.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    What happens (for example) if Hector Noesi or Adam Warren throw goose eggs and turn heads all during spring training ? What happens if pickups like Brad Myers as a long reliever or Cesar Cebal as a bullpen lefty make a strong case to stay ? Does Burnett continue to block the progress of deserving arms because of his ludicrous contract through 2013 ?
    Unless Burnett does a total makeover with repeated pitching mechanics and with less velocity, then he’ll be nothing but a rubber stamp of what he’s shown since 2009.

  435. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 8:57 am

    MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Forget Kuroda.

    Yankees are not spending that kind of bread on him.

    Even on a one year deal.

    There are cheaper and better options IMO.
    ———–

    Exactly, I bet that Hal & Co. say the same thing.

  436. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Here’s my pen :

    Mo
    Sorryano
    D-Rob
    Logan
    Colon(Swingman)/Joba (60 day DL)
    Cabral
    Wade

  437. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:59 am

    MTU, Perez is a reliever (only 5.2 innings with 10 strikeouts. Issues as always are the 4 walks). Still he costs nothing and spent the 2011 season in the minors and did pretty well.

  438. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Here’s the Ro:

    CC
    Nova
    Garcia
    Hughes
    AJ

    Bartolo/Noesi/Joba as backups.

    The minute AJ falters (if he does) he gets put out to pasture.

    If Hughes falters he goes to the Pen.

    Same with Freddy. If he falters.

    Lot’s of depth. lot’s of options.

    Couple that w. a dynamite BP and you’re golden.

    :)

  439. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 9:04 am

    GB-

    Thanks for clarifying that. Another power lefty at little cost. Works for me.

  440. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Time for some breakfast.

    There’s a burrito that has my name on it.

    later.

    :)

  441. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 9:06 am

    MTU December 27th, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Only an 11 man staff ?

    Bench of:

    Cervelli (Ugh), Maxwell/ Dickerson, Laird or the Jap guy if they sign him….who else ?

  442. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Don’t forget Montero.

    A reveamped Tex.

    And a healthy A-rod.

    O could be even better than it was.

    :)

  443. MTU December 27th, 2011 at 9:09 am

    YWN-

    I can’t count. I’m old. Add one more pitcher or an extra bench guy.

    Sorry about that.

  444. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Since there’s no chance I’m reading through some 450 comments – let me apologize if this has been said.

    It appears that LGY was not on Santa’s good list this year because he got a big lump of coal as it was announced through the media that the Yankees will not be bidding on Kuroda the $17 mil it would take to sign him (after factoring in the luxury tax implications) is not worth it to the pinstripers.

  445. 86w183 December 27th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    What has Cabral done to convince anyone he can crack arguably the best bullpen in MLB?

    Yanks should go with 11-man staff, but more often they carry 12 so some shlub can rust in the back corner.

    Hope they re-sign Chavez…. not as concerned about Andruw Jones.

  446. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 9:11 am

    MTU December 27th, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Cool , that burrito is more important anyway. Eat it while it is hot.

  447. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    If Noesi isn’t given a chance to start this year then Im not sure when he ever will with the Yanks…..

  448. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    I thought him going to Winter Ball was to stretch him out in anticipation of him challenging for a possible spot this year ?

  449. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    “I thought him going to Winter Ball was to stretch him out in anticipation of him challenging for a possible spot this year ?”

    Hopefully.

  450. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    86w183 December 27th, 2011 at 9:11 am
    What has Cabral done to convince anyone he can crack arguably the best bullpen in MLB?

    Yanks should go with 11-man staff, but more often they carry 12 so some shlub can rust in the back corner.

    Hope they re-sign Chavez…. not as concerned about Andruw Jones.

    ——————-

    He’s a LHP that throws hard – those are always worth taking a look at.

    Yankees will go with a 12 man pitching staff because that’s what Girardi is comfortable with and what he’s rolled with since Day 1.

  451. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    When will the Fielder hammer drop? Gotta think the Nats are the favorite…..

  452. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Good morning-

    Apparently there is very little interest in Kuroda at 12-13M, especially if he wants a 2 year contract. The Diamondbacks shied away, the Rockies can’t spend the cash, the Red Sox won’t pull the trigger. Will he take less and play in US or go back to Japan.

    Burnett-
    I don’t think Cashman will find a taker this offseason unless the Yankees eat 2/3rds of the remaining contract-what it took for the Braves to unload one remaining year of Derek Lowe. Find it highly unlikely they’ll do that. Interestingly if he does go to the bullpen he has a slightly better BAA against lefties .256 than our lone LOOGY Boone Logan at .260 .
    AJ has this year to right himself or the Yankees will banish him to one of those teams not on his partial NTC!

  453. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:12 am
    If Noesi isn’t given a chance to start this year then Im not sure when he ever will with the Yanks…..

    —————

    I can’t remember the last time a team made it through a season using only 5 starters.

  454. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    The Red Sox have two big questions right now …..back end of their rotation and bullpen. If they added Kuroda/Oswalt and Madson to their club then they’d soar deep into luxury tax land but they’ll also make their club significantly better. Will they do it?

  455. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:19 am
    When will the Fielder hammer drop? Gotta think the Nats are the favorite…..

    ————–

    Boras guys usually come off the board late – I figure sometime in the next two weeks.

    Nats do make a lot of sense; especially with the Cubs bowing out. But I wouldn’t rule out Seattle.

  456. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    “I can’t remember the last time a team made it through a season using only 5 starters.”

    I can’t either…..but that’s not the issue ….coming up and making a couple of starts for injury isn’t going to further his development. Id be ok with him as the #6 if he were the 6th best starter…….Im not sure that’s the case……actually I know that’s not the case.

  457. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:22 am
    The Red Sox have two big questions right now …..back end of their rotation and bullpen. If they added Kuroda/Oswalt and Madson to their club then they’d soar deep into luxury tax land but they’ll also make their club significantly better. Will they do it?

    —————————–

    My guess is they pass on all of the above. I think they’ve decided it’s Andrew Bailey or bust as far as the closer spot goes and in the rotation they’ll probably pick up a less expensive back end option (Colon?)

  458. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Blake-

    Scott Boras isn’t having much luck with the remaining key FAs on his list.
    Trying to find a Danks contract for Edwin Jackson, a Papelbon contract for Ryan Madson, and a near Pujols contract for Prince Fielder, have not piqued anyone’s interest.

    There remain quite a few FA and trade options for a closer, diluting the market, and some cheaper options at 1st base.

    I hope Fielder does stay in the NL.

  459. 108 stitches December 27th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    I never understood why Cashman signed Burnett in 2009 in the first place. Because he handled the Yankees and Boston well in 2008 ?
    In looking over what the free agent class of 2009 was, I can’t be convinced that Ryan Dempster or Randy Wolf couldn’t have done better than Burnett has showed at less money and less years.

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....gents.html

  460. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:24 am
    “I can’t remember the last time a team made it through a season using only 5 starters.”

    I can’t either…..but that’s not the issue ….coming up and making a couple of starts for injury isn’t going to further his development. Id be ok with him as the #6 if he were the 6th best starter…….Im not sure that’s the case……actually I know that’s not the case.

    ———————

    Well keep in mind, he’s going to have thrown a lot by the time this season comes around – by going to winter ball and stretching out it’s not like he’s going to have had much of an offseason. By letting him pitch in games that don’t matter (minor league games) the club can manage his pitch counts and rest a lot better than they could at the major league level.

    And, it’s not like Hughes or Garcia are pictures of health – it’s entirely possible that one of them goes down and Noesi is thrown into a greater role.

  461. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    I hope the Sox trade what’s left of their farm system for Andrew Bailey coming off surgery instead of just signing Madson.

    If the Sox really wanted to fill their holes……they’d sign Kuroda, Saunders, and Madson….and leave Aceves and Bard in the pen. That would be a really solid and much deeper staff……it would also probably make them the biggest payroll in the game……

  462. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    Trader,

    I don’t know what he’s going to do with Jackson…..my guess is that he gets Fielder his money in the end from somebody……Im just hoping its not the Rangers

  463. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    I don’t think their are better options available than Kuroda. Cheaper, yes, but lesser.

    If one looks at Kuroda’s stats the last two years as well as his pitches on fangraphs, he has the ability to pitch well in the AL. He has good stuff. He is not a soft tosser.

    The Angels are better. The Rangers are better. If anyone thinks the Red Sox will not add a couple pitchers, you are foolish. The Rays will only get better as their players reach their prime years and they have Moore.

    I am not a doomsayer, but again the Yankees are going backwards and not forward. Their key players are aging. They have no bench. Their rotation is quite suspect. No one, not a die hard Yankee fan, would rate the rotation in the top five in the AL.

    But, while about every other team has money to spend, the Yankees suddenly do not. I don’t get it.

    Anyone who is still thinking Cashman is laying behind the log waiting to pull his big move, the log washed down stream and Cashman is revealed to have been telling the truth when he says they have no money they are willing to spend.

  464. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    The Red Sox have Beckett, Lester, Buccholz, possibly Bard and Aceves, plus Miller thy can throw into the starting rotation.

    They need a bullpen.

  465. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Chip,

    That’s likely what they are thinking…..and that’s ok. I do hope they give him a chance to win a spot in ST though.

  466. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    108 stitches December 27th, 2011 at 9:27 am
    I never understood why Cashman signed Burnett in 2009 in the first place. Because he handled the Yankees and Boston well in 2008 ?
    In looking over what the free agent class of 2009 was, I can’t be convinced that Ryan Dempster or Randy Wolf couldn’t have done better than Burnett has showed at less money and less years.

    ————–

    AJ had shown a clear ability to pitch in the AL East – after the disasters that were Javy Vazquez and Jaret Wright that was something Brian was going to put a premium on.

  467. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    “Maybe some here should stay up next season and watch Ian Kennedy pitch and then you’ll see that he can pitch……”

    I have. I don’t see many posts saying that he can’t pitch.

    I do see some questioning whether he’s built to pitch in NY. Two entirely different questions Pat M.

    You’ve been around long enough to observe that not all pitchers who come to NY are able to duplicate what they have done elsewhere.

    We all know that the AL East, the Bronx most obviously, does not provide a safe harbor and cozy confines.

    I’ll say it again, and for RadioKev’s sake, hopefully for the last time – I don’t believe Ian Kennedy has what it takes to successfully pitch for the Yankees. It doesn’t mean that he won’t tear up the NL West.

    *************

    MTU – as always, I like your thinking.

    I also like the Yankee rotation and the kids waiting below should the need be there to bring one/some of them up. Bring back Bartolo? I could be happy with that also.

    I’m hoping that the AL West turns into a fun watch with Oakland and Texas beating the tar out of each other! I am thinking that the AL Central will once again be a yawner, with the division winner going into the playoffs with a lot of energy since that division doesn’t have to expend much energy, grrr!!!

    Such is life for a fan of a team in the AL Beast!!!

    :)

  468. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:31 am
    Chip,

    That’s likely what they are thinking…..and that’s ok. I do hope they give him a chance to win a spot in ST though.

    ————

    I don’t see how he can. Barring injury it would take the team deciding that Hughes can’t be in the rotation for Noesi to get a spot and I don’t think they’ll make that call in Florida.

  469. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Blake,

    I absolutely believe the Sox will spend money to add pitching. Cherington is not going to want the team to have severe needs in his first season as GM. I would bet on it.

    Meanwhile, the Yankees are trying to see if they have any money for Andruw. Forget Cespedes and Soler. Why? They cost money. Who needs any of them when we can see Maxwell strike out half his at bats? It is irritating.

  470. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:37 am

    It’s comforting to know that at this time last year Hal felt Soriano was a $17M pitcher when factoring in lux tax.

    But Kuroda is not.

    Very intelligent baseball minds those Stein Bros.

  471. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    austinmac-

    The money is there. The will to be the only team spending 40%, soon to be 50% over cost for a player is not there and has the Yankees with the new CBA moving in the direction to be below the 189M luxury tax ceiling that will be in place for the start of the 2014 baseball season

    I agree that the Yankees starting rotation, as currently constructed, looks less than appealing. On the bright side they managed to have the 4th best AL ERA, just a shade behind Oakland, and led the AL in strikeouts. :)

  472. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    “I don’t see how he can. Barring injury it would take the team deciding that Hughes can’t be in the rotation for Noesi to get a spot and I don’t think they’ll make that call in Florida.”

    Or them deciding Noesi is better than AJ

  473. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Mac,

    I think they’ll ultimately do something……maybe sign Saunders and Madson…..or maybe Kuroda. I can’t see them going into the season as is either……

  474. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:38 am
    “I don’t see how he can. Barring injury it would take the team deciding that Hughes can’t be in the rotation for Noesi to get a spot and I don’t think they’ll make that call in Florida.”

    Or them deciding Noesi is better than AJ

    —————

    Same thing – Yankees aren’t going to decide to bury $33 mil in the pen based on a spring training performance.

  475. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    austinmac, the Yankees have had many seasons of spending big big money and not all of those seasons have brought home a world series, hey? If the Yankee players are worth their salt – I say they are – let them compete with what they have.

    What were the top 5 rotations in the game last season, in your estimation? Which one of those teams won the world series?

    If the Yankees play the way they are capable of playing, they should have no problems knocking off any team. If they don’t, oh well. I like going into the season with the rotation we have. I like the excitement of seeing whether the Yankees are going to be able to get the job done. I certainly think that they have a strong rotation. Even if you want AJ to be #5, I don’t know a lot of teams that have the same potential 1-4.

    What does not kill us makes us stronger – something like that. Name another team (or several) that have the potential strength of the Yankee bullpen!

    I like our chances.

  476. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Now that Hal is categorically opposed to the luxury tax, I wonder what he’s spending all that extra money lining his pockets on.

    Christmas presents for Randy Levine?

  477. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 9:42 am

    Chip,

    They can make a call on Hughes if his velocity is diminished like last spring. Let’s all hope that is not the case.

  478. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    “It’s comforting to know that at this time last year Hal felt Soriano was a $17M pitcher when factoring in lux tax.”

    Makes it difficult for Cash when they spend part of his budget for him and then refuse to bend to add things they need the next year……what no sacred obligation to the fans this year? They could still do something so we’ll see

  479. Carlo December 27th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Isn’t this around the time of year when people start talking about greg golson being an awesome 4th outfielder?

  480. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    “Same thing – Yankees aren’t going to decide to bury $33 mil in the pen based on a spring training performance.”

    How about based on the last two seasons?

  481. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Of CC, Nova, Hughes and Freddy, which one(s) keep you up at night wringing your knuckles? Any of them? Seriously?

    I am absenting AJ in my question because I understand why there is no faith there. I still think he has something to offer but totally understand why nobody else would feel the same way.

    Even if you see your number 5 as a wash, with the Yankee bullpen, there shouldn’t be any problem.

    I think you guys worry needlessly, either that or want the season handed to you on a silver platter. JMO.

    ***********
    What was the biggest problem for the Yanks in the postseason – pitching or hitting?

    That’s what I thought.

  482. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 9:48 am

    “It’s comforting to know that at this time last year Hal felt Soriano was a $17M pitcher when factoring in lux tax.”
    ———————————–
    The extra money spent on Soriano should come out of Levine’s salary/bonus.
    At this time last offseason, no-one had an inkling of how the new CBA would effect those teams over the luxury tax cap-specifically the Yankees.

  483. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Trisha-
    Hitting. Actually one timely hit. Well two timely hits wouldn’t have hurt!! :)
    However had they moved on pitching would have been an issue, without the use of Nova.

  484. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    They don’t NEED Kuroda. He falls under the “nice to have” category. Fan wants are the yankees concerns. How many organizations have 9 ready or near ready starters? 1 (Tampa)?

  485. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:43 am
    “Same thing – Yankees aren’t going to decide to bury $33 mil in the pen based on a spring training performance.”

    How about based on the last two seasons?

    —————-

    For AJ to get bumped from the rotation he would need to pitch a lot worse than he has at any point over the last two seasons. In my opinion.

  486. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Trisha,

    I love optimism as well as the next person, but the job of a GM is to try to maximize the team’s chances to win. Agree?

    Their rotation has severe risks. Everyone said Wilson had too short of a track record. It is longer and better than everyone but CC. Nova has one year of success. Hughes has had one partial year of starting success, Garcia is a hope and a prayer he will be anywhere near as good this year. Burnett is Burnett and will always be. Noesi had an ERA under three in the winter league. Are you optimistic that will translate? Or he he one of the can’t perform in NY that many ascribe to so many others the Yankees don’t sign?

    The reality is the Yankees had a chance to improve their chances to win this year by spending money and they have not. I prefer it,as a fan, when they are all in to win.

    Now, they want to win if it can be done at a lower cost than last year and the years before.

    I do not think it is a coincidence that the Yankees last won the Series the year after they spent a lot of money to improve their team.

    I get the need to promote from within. What I don’t get is eliminating the other options of improving from the outside.

  487. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:43 am
    “It’s comforting to know that at this time last year Hal felt Soriano was a $17M pitcher when factoring in lux tax.”

    Makes it difficult for Cash when they spend part of his budget for him and then refuse to bend to add things they need the next year……what no sacred obligation to the fans this year? They could still do something so we’ll see

    ——————-

    A few of you are assuming facts not in evidence.

    What makes you so sure Cashman wants Kuroda (at that price) and that it’s Hal holding him back?

  488. Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    I absolutely believe the Sox will spend money to add pitching. Cherington is not going to want the team to have severe needs in his first season as GM. I would bet on it.

    austinmac – good morning –

    This presumes that Cherington controls the pursestrings. The line on the Red Sox has been that Henry has been adamnant about not exceeding the luxury tax threshold. Well, they did that this past season. Why would he suddenly agree to keep on exceeding it? He might, but, again, that’s his decision as owner, not Cherington’s as GM.

    I’m sure Cash sees players that he might like to add – like Kuroda, for instance – where he might be hampered by ownership mandated payroll restrictions. You could probably say that about a few GMs.

  489. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    At this time last offseason, no-one had an inkling of how the new CBA would effect those teams over the luxury tax cap-specifically the Yankees.
    ========================================

    I think it’s probably a little naive to think the Yankees didn’t have some inkling as to what the new CBA would look like. The negotiations were quiet and seemed unusually uncontentious, but it is likely they had the framework in place several months in advance of finaliznig things and announcing it to the public.

  490. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 9:30 am
    The Red Sox have Beckett, Lester, Buccholz, possibly Bard and Aceves, plus Miller thy can throw into the starting rotation.

    They need a bullpen.

    Beyond the first two in the rotation, that’s not exactly overwhelming. Buchholz is in no better position than Hughes. Erratic and somewhat injury prone. If one good season doesn’t make Hughes a sure thing, it certainly doesn’t make Buchholz a sure thing.

  491. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    They don’t NEED Kuroda. He falls under the “nice to have” category. Fan wants are the yankees concerns.

    ——–

    Good point.

    The Yankees NEEDED Soriano last year.

  492. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 9:58 am

    When does the 30 day signing period for Nakajima end? I suspect that will not happen. I feel sorry for the player to be picked by a team that doesn’t want to sign him.

    I don’t get that bid any more than I get the $15-17M on Darvish.

  493. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Trader – good point! With the way the hitting was going, losing Nova had ugly written all over it.

    GB – Good point also and I definitely agree. The Yankees do not need Kuroda. It really smacks of desperation when you’re jonesing for a 37-year old NL pitcher who went 13-16 in the weakest division in the NL!

  494. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    “Beyond the first two in the rotation, that’s not exactly overwhelming. Buchholz is in no better position than Hughes. Erratic and somewhat injury prone. If one good season doesn’t make Hughes a sure thing, it certainly doesn’t make Buchholz a sure thing.”

    As always, the voice of reason. The Sux are NOT a concern.

  495. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:56 am
    They don’t NEED Kuroda. He falls under the “nice to have” category. Fan wants are the yankees concerns.

    ——–

    Good point.

    The Yankees NEEDED Soriano last year.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    One has nothing to do with the other and you know it.

  496. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    What makes you so sure Cashman wants Kuroda (at that price) and that it’s Hal holding him back?

    ——

    Cashman has been trying to get Kuroda for two years.

  497. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    This presumes that Cherington controls the pursestrings. The line on the Red Sox has been that Henry has been adamnant about not exceeding the luxury tax threshold

    ============================

    Actually, they’ve publicly acknowledged they are going over the threshold this year.

  498. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Joe,

    After the year ending debacle with the Sox, they will, I believe without question, do what is needed to create a positive feeling toward the team by filling in their needs. Otherwise, their will be much unhappiness in their fanbase.

    If I am right and they add Kuroda and a lesser pitcher, they will again be the favorites with the Rays a popular choice for second, and not just with ESPN.

    If they have Melancon, Bard and Aceves in the pen, that doesn’t look so bad to me.

  499. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    I feel better now that GB has correctly pointed out the Yankees only spend their money on NEEDS.

    Later Lohudders.

  500. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:01 am
    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:56 am
    They don’t NEED Kuroda. He falls under the “nice to have” category. Fan wants are the yankees concerns.

    ——–

    Good point.

    The Yankees NEEDED Soriano last year.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    One has nothing to do with the other and you know it.

    ——————-

    Actually they do – Had the Yankees not spent 11 mil/year on Soriano last year they would have it available to them to spend on Kuroda this year.

  501. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    GB-

    The Red Sox starting rotation is suspect, but they do have options, and might not be willing to spend the $$$ it will take to bolster the starting staff, rather focusing on some cheaper options for the bullpen.

    The Yankees do need to thin out some of their AAA starters. Correct? Might there be a trade for another teams starter that wouldn’t cost the top 5-6 prospects, but would add little cost, have major league experience, and maybe due for a bounceback year?

  502. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Didn’t say that the Red sox weren’t a concern, because they can be unpredictable, but, unless they’re buying at least on pitcher, their trade possibilities are somewhat limited. They’re paper thin on depth at the major league and especially the minor league level. One or two injuries (middle infield or pitching) and they are in deep trouble.

  503. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Do ppl actually think the Red Sox are going to be bad again?

  504. 86w183 December 27th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    It’s funny how most people on this blog will both criticize the Yanks for not spending enough money AND insist no good prospects can be included in any trade. You can’t have it both ways.

    Sure, it would make the Yanks a better team if had they spent $ 100 M on CJ Wilson and another $ 200 M on Prince Fielder to be the DH. Is that what would be best.

    Yes this is different than the glory days of “The Boss”, but don’t forget the GORY days of “The Boss” when the Yanks spent foolishly and traded prime prospects for aging veterans.

    I’m perfectly content to see what Hughes and Noesi can do in 2012. I want to see Montero get 2 starts a week behind the plate and 3 starts a week as the DH. I take take the growing pains of seeing what Dickerson and/or Maxwell can deliver off the bench.

    But I bet everything I own the Yanks never get down to $ 189 M again.

  505. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    trader, I’m thinking that a trade of some of the overstock in pitching and catching might happen before ST, but, most likely around mid season.

  506. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Sure, it would make the Yanks a better team if had they spent $ 100 M on CJ Wilson and another $ 200 M on Prince Fielder to be the DH. Is that what would be best.

    The team can be better without spending 300 mil. Kuroda makes them better and helps prepare the prospects. Its such a no brainer.

  507. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Pearl of wisdom from the Heymanator:

    Jon Heyman
    hear beltran offered to go to #yankees for the deal he got w/ cards ($26M, 2 yrs). but like 7 yrs ago, they declined.

  508. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    if we get kuroda, what does that do? it likely pushed noesi down to aaa and forces someone (hughes/garcia/aj) to the BP. It does not in any way fill the hole at #2. Is the upgrade from hughes/garcia/aj to kuroda worth $12M? maybe, but it also impedes development of hughes and/or noesi as SP’s.

  509. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Nobody knows whether Kuroda wants to join the Yankees, how much or for how many years. He (nor his agent) has said publically they only want 1 year or only $12 mil. So, you don’t know whether he’s priced himself out or cashman doesn’t think he’s worth it. all you have to go on is the same thing I do….a bunch of know-nothing-about-it media types.

  510. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    GB,

    I agree the Sox depth is thin, but don’t you think the Yankees are thin as well in positional players. I like Nunez better than most, but Dickerson and Maxwell cannot, IMO, play extended periods. A simple analysis of their minor league careers makes that plain to me. Look at Maxwell’a strike out rate in the minors. It is rather stunning. For example, last year he struck out 72 times in 170+ ABs. , and that was not an aberration.Dickerson is a virtual career minor leaguer because his bat is not good enough.

    They need to re-sign Jones who provided quite a few key hits and homers last year.

    Neither Maxwell or Dickerson are young players likely to significantly improve. The odds are they are what they have shown themselves to be. These are not young kids who will grow given time.

  511. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Ys Guy – Noesi is going to be in AAA regardless.

    Kuroda would protect one of Burnett/Garcia/Hughes/Nova, who really thinks all 4 of those starters are ready to go out of ST? Or will stay healthy all season? Kuroda would stop them from having to let Hughes/Nova “work it out” in the majors, something I’m completely fine with.

  512. NYYanksFan December 27th, 2011 at 10:16 am

    The Yankees have never said they have no money to spend. Other people are saying sources say the Yankees have no money to spend.

    Saying Cashman didn’t want to sign A-Rod isn’t true. Cashman wanted to extend A-Rod but wanted the 20 million dollars from the Rangers too. No one can know for how long and how much money that extension would have been. May have been the same amount except 20 million of it would have come from Texas.

  513. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    if we get kuroda, what does that do? it likely pushed noesi down to aaa and forces someone (hughes/garcia/aj) to the BP. It does not in any way fill the hole at #2. Is the upgrade from hughes/garcia/aj to kuroda worth $12M? maybe, but it also impedes development of hughes and/or noesi as SP’s.

    Noesi got screwed last year and lost innings. He only pitched 80 innings. He isn’t ready for 180 innings. He SHOULD be pushed to AAA because I think Noesi can be a good starter but they need him to get innings. They basically tried to use him like Nova the year before but messed it up. Nova got 180 innings while getting the same amount of innings as Noesi at the major league level. Noesi needs to start the year in AAA because he isnt going to smoothly ramp back up to 180. His career high is only 160 and it got cut in half the year after. Same thing happened to Hughes and it is one of the possible factors for his trouble in the 2nd half of 2010 and 2011.

    If you don’t think Kuroda is a huge upgrade over AJ or Hughes it means you probably have not seen Kuroda pitch. He is really good. I think many people here simply don’t know the kind of pitcher he is.

    It would definitely be worth it to dump AJ or stick him in the pen and replace him as Kuroda. AJ stinks.

  514. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Cashman has already stated (more than once) that unless there’s an emergency that pops up during ST, Noesi will be in the starting rotation in AAA this year to get in his innings.

  515. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Best Ever to Do It – Do ppl actually think the Red Sox are going to be bad again?

    Worse, actually.

  516. 86w183 December 27th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    It’s nowhere near a no-brainer

    Let’s see…. a 37 year old who has never lived on the East coast, never pitched in the American League and has a losing career record for a discount price of just $ 12 Million plus tax, tag and title.

    And what prospect does he help prepare?

    Is he better than Freddie? Yes, but not $ 8 M better (pls tax, tag and title)

  517. Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Actually, they?ve publicly acknowledged they are going over the threshold this year.

    dogface – actually, I acknowledged that point later in my post. My point was that, reportedly, Henry has not wanted to do that, and might not be eager to do it again.

    austinmac – oh, yes, the Red Sox potentially do have a good pitching staff, IF they all stay healthy and perform to their hoped for expectations. IF – they have question marks just like everyone does. What is Aceves’ back goes out; what if Bard bombs as a starting pitcher, and then loses his relief mojo; what is Melancon reverts to his earlier AL East form? What if Bucholz’ and Beckett’s backs each go out? The Yanks have their questions, also, no doubt.

    I think the only thing not in doubt is that the AL Eas is going to be a dogfight next year, as it has been lately.

    Later.

  518. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    86w – The major league rotation is not for preparing prospects, it’s for people that are ready to pitch in the majors.

  519. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    And what prospect does he help prepare?

    Banuelos and Betances, guys who are not ready to throw any number of innings at the MLB level.

  520. 108 stitches December 27th, 2011 at 10:20 am

    There’s no guarantees that Bard or Aceves will make it as a starter. Even if they show something, they’ll go down at some point with tired arms. They’re both making transitions from the bullpen. There’s always Wakefield who is waiting around for a phone call.

  521. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    “Noesi got screwed last year and lost innings. He only pitched 80 innings. He isn’t ready for 180 innings.”

    ============================================

    by the yankees practice of allowing a pitcher to go +30 Innings from their previous career high, he can go 190 IP since he threw 160 in 2010.

  522. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    The Yankee pitching depth consists of plenty of arms but all with questions. Phelps, Warren and Mitchell do not show up on anyone’s prospect lists. Evidently, no other teams have been willing to consider them intergral parts of a trade.

    What they need, as all should know, is another reliable starter who can occasionally win a 2-1 or 3-2 game. That way when the team doesn’t hit well they can still win a tight playoff game.

    Must we simply agree that if the Yankees do nothing it is all part of a grand, brilliant plan?

  523. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Mac,

    The only place the Yankee farm system is think is with outfielders at the upper levels. Shortstop isn’t overlowing, either. Maxwell strikes out a lot, but, so does Vazquez and people wanted him in NY. Maxwell is a very good outfielder at 3 spots, and has been a very good base runner. Power and speed are possibly better than Jones, glove is probably better at this stage. Jones was always a bit of a strikeout artist. he’s maybe 27 years old now, but, as a #4 outfielder, he’s not going to hurt the team. I’d rather have Jones and Maxwell over Maxwell and Dickerson, though.

  524. Bret The Hitman December 27th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    With Swish heading into his final year, I’m surprised the Yankees snubbed Beltran’s offer to play here on a two year deal. Could they not have switched Beltran to RF in 2013? It would be nice to have options in the OF. Removing an option does not make much sense.

  525. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    86w – The major league rotation is not for preparing prospects, it’s for people that are ready to pitch in the majors.

    ———————————————–

    this is not true, there are many pitchers in the majors even on winning teams like texas who are learning how to pitch at the major league level.

  526. Yankee Trader December 27th, 2011 at 10:25 am

    Have to go also.

    Maybe you can find a player or two that might help the Yankees from the attached list:

    http://www.baseball-reference......ents.shtml

    Andruw Jones is the hitting equivalent of a LOOGY BAA lefties .286, righties .172

  527. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    You guys are talkin’ about Kuroda like he’s Sandy Koufax. He’s decent in the NL which makes him fair-to-middlin’ in the AL. So your gonna spend $13-$14 Mill ALL season on mediocrity? Kuroda’s the kinda Chucker you pony-up for come July 31 to get ya over the hump. And those of you gettin’ all nervous about Fielder goin’ to Texas are peein’ your pants over nothin’. The guy can hit the ball a million miles, granted, but The Game still boils down to Pitching. Texas possibly signing Darvish is cause for concern. Texas possibly signing Fielder warrants a yawn.

  528. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    # Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Best Ever to Do It – Do ppl actually think the Red Sox are going to be bad again?

    Worse, actually.

    ——————-

    That’s the wrong thing to think. Not saying the Red Sox will win the division but every Yankee fan seems to believe the Red Sox will continue to slide back.

  529. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    i dont think beltran is going to hold up in the OF for the whole 2012 season, let alone 2013 (at age 36)

  530. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    dogface – actually, I acknowledged that point later in my post. My point was that, reportedly, Henry has not wanted to do that, and might not be eager to do it again

    =====================

    My bad. Missed that. So far as their ownership goes, the luxury tax has been nowhere as big a deal foe them as it has been for the Yankees. They’ve paid something like $20M since the tax was imposed, where the Yankees have spent in excess of $200M. Granted the Yankees revenues blow Boston’s away, but they don’t get hit by that tax all that hard. I’m sure that like the Yankees they’ll want to make sure they are below $189M by 2014, but prior to that I think they’re going to take their medicine on the tax or else risk taking a hit with the fan base.

  531. Bret The Hitman December 27th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Ys Guy,

    Possibly, but do you want to be a slave to Nick Swisher’s contract demands? Worst case scenario is Beltran would have to DH.

  532. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Ys Guy – this is not true, there are many pitchers in the majors even on winning teams like texas who are learning how to pitch at the major league level.

    Not by choice, by necessity.

  533. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    i dont think beltran is going to hold up in the OF for the whole 2012 season, let alone 2013 (at age 36)

    =======================

    Agreed. I bet he shopped that 2/$26M to more AL teams than just the Yankees. He probably knew he’d be better served playing where DH is an option.

  534. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:30 am

    system is thin ***not think*** is with outfielders

  535. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:30 am

    “Worse, actually.”

    :)

    ID, I’m with you. The Sux are now the equivalent of the Bronx Zoo. The only semblance of sanity they had in the organization is now with the Chicago Cubs. The three stooges at the top are total idiots. Henry’s idea of making nice is bringing all of the players on his yacht when they’re unhappy about playing a double header. Are you kidding me? And now they have Bobby Valentine at the helm. I’m sure their egomaniacal beer-swilling, chicken eating, video game-playing losers are going to pay close attention to Bobby V.

    They are a sinking ship.

  536. 86w183 December 27th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    I know it’s hard to put yourself in the shoes of Hal Steinbrenner, but I just don’t think I would spend $ 17 million for one season of Kuroda. I would rather see what Hughes has while priming Noesi in AAA.

    FWIW — Kuroda is a career 3-8, 4.33 in inter-league play

  537. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Best Ever… Hardly – That’s the wrong thing to think.

    Why? They lost their captain, their RF, their closer, their manager and their GM. Any aspect of baseball you choose to enjoy, be it stats or intangibles has been negatively effected this offseason.

    They still have an aging injury prone starting 5.

    Why would they be any better?

  538. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:34 am

    by the yankees practice of allowing a pitcher to go +30 Innings from their previous career high, he can go 190 IP since he threw 160 in 2010.

    By the yankees practice of doing this they have created many successful starting pitchers such as

    Many used fatigue as an excuse for Hughes. Nova actually got a correct rampup of innings. I understand the Yankees policy, but why keep doing it stupidly? Noesi isn’t Phil Hughes. He isn’t a top prospect. Why throw him to the wolves? Let him build up his innings so he is physically ready to handle it.

  539. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    they will deal with swisher when the time comes, no need to go add $26M to the payroll to address a ‘problem’ that wont come up for another year. the yankees won the WS with ricky ledee in the OF.

  540. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    He’s decent in the NL which makes him fair-to-middlin’ in the AL

    Decent doesnt throw up a 3 ERA. Convinced none of you actually know who Hiroki Kuroda is.

  541. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    jerkface – exactly, why keep doing it wrong sine they have proven over and over again that it doesn’t work :)

    Hughes pitched 80 innings in the bullpen in 2009, pitched 180 innings as a starter in 2010, and showed up to 2011 with an inexplicably dead shoulder. I’d say that is a plan I would not like to try again.

  542. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    …and melky! LOVE YA’ Melkman!

  543. Bret The Hitman December 27th, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Ys Guy,

    But adding Beltran is not just a hedge against Swisher. He batted .900 OPS. Adding him upgrades the lineup and provides an option in the OF.

  544. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:37 am

    after seeing the bottom 4 hitters in each of the nl west lineups, i have alot less respect for the #s being posted by pitchers in that division

  545. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    austinmac, I guess I am counting on nothing but upside from the rotation! I always tend to look at the best-case scenario and perhaps ignore other eventualities. But then I figure that the Yankees think about those eventualities and have their ducks in order in case something should happen. So therefore I don’t worry. May not be smart but it’s the way I look at life. I can’t get worried about things I don’t control, and I am a fan of one hell of a franchise. Therefore I just sit back and let it happen. (Again, I’m excited to see what we get from CC, Nova, Hughes, and Freddy. And okay, I am also excited to see what AJ will bring to the table.)

    You know that Cashman would never start the season without spot-starting backup in the pen. Who that will be remains to be seen!

  546. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    after seeing the bottom 4 hitters in each of the nl west lineups, i have alot less respect for the #s being posted by pitchers in that division

    Look at the lineups Hughes allowed to hit him around for a 6 ERA.

  547. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    beltran either takes ab’s away from montero or takes half of swisher’s ab’s. neither option is worth $13M. a rf that costs $23M is a bit much isn’t it?

  548. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    I would have liked to see Beltran as an option.

  549. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    “The ship be sinking.” Micheal Ray Richardson

  550. Bret The Hitman December 27th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Ys Guy,

    Russell Martin is taking AB’s from Montero. I doubt they want this guy to be a DH.

  551. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 10:43 am

    I Know Greg Maddox would NOT touch the AL with a 10 ft. pole, and that guy was Very smart. Nuff said regarding how NL SP’s might fare in the AL.

  552. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    we are getting greg maddux?

  553. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    I Know Greg Maddox would NOT touch the AL with a 10 ft. pole, and that guy was Very smart. Nuff said regarding how NL SP’s might fare in the AL.

    Eventually you’ll be limiting yourself to only acquiring pitchers who have pitched in the AL east on the Orioles.

  554. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    they will deal with swisher when the time comes, no need to go add $26M to the payroll to address a ‘problem’ that wont come up for another year. the yankees won the WS with ricky ledee in the OF.
    =============

    Funny stuff. Swisher will probably be looking for more than $ 13 million per season, if so I say bye bye Nick. Going with a cheaper alternative will fit right into getting under the LT threshold going forward.

  555. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    how about glavine and smoltz…nuthin like old school.

  556. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    “Ys Guy,

    Russell Martin is taking AB’s from Montero. I doubt they want this guy to be a DH.”

    =========================================

    this is ridiculous. do you think that they would have him dh’ing if they thought he was now capable of being an everyday catcher? do you think they would have even thought about bringing martin back if they thought montero was ready to be the everday catcher?

  557. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Funny stuff. Swisher will probably be looking for more than $ 13 million per season, if so I say bye bye Nick.
    ========================
    He’s gonna have to have one helluva year.

  558. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    # Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Best Ever… Hardly – That’s the wrong thing to think.

    Why? They lost their captain, their RF, their closer, their manager and their GM. Any aspect of baseball you choose to enjoy, be it stats or intangibles has been negatively effected this offseason.

    They still have an aging injury prone starting 5.

    Why would they be any better?

    ————————–
    Because things change injuries occur on other ball clubs, teams take a step back, players take a step forward, etc. Ppl question the Red Sox rotation but the same questions exist with the Yankees rotation.

  559. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    last 3 years for Kuroda vs non-NL West teams

    333 ip
    119 ER
    3.21ERA
    268 K’s (7 K/9)
    77 BB’s (2 BB/9)
    3.48 K/BB

    SIGN HIM@%!#^&

  560. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    If Kuroda was 13-16 in the NL West exactly what do you think he’ll bring to the table at the age of 37, pitching in the AL East? Do you think he will transition immediately into an AL-East ready pitcher? Heck, some of the best in the NL didn’t manage that in a season, hopping from the NL to the AL?

    I watched Kuroda closely last season. To me he was a wild card.

  561. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Good point. Smoltz was a pinata with the R\Sox.

  562. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    You know that Cashman would never start the season without spot-starting backup in the pen. Who that will be remains to be seen!
    ==========================
    Say hello to Noesi.

  563. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    Hey mick!!!

    :)

  564. m December 27th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Now Kuroda’s going to cost $17M?

    I think they passed on Beltran because of his injury history and his age. Maybe if it was for a year and $8M or something. But it’s clear that the Cardinals wanted him that much more. We all agreed that was a good deal for Beltran, which means it would not have been a good deal for the Yankees.

    YT,

    The Sox are in throw it all at the wall and see what sticks phase. They really don’t want to go past any luxury tax threshold. FA and trade prices are high now. I don’t see too many options for them. The Yankees? Now there’s a team with options. ;)

  565. DSJ December 27th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    What will he bring to the table? Why, cookie dough of course.

  566. 108 stitches December 27th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    I didn’t hurt the cause of Noesi to pitch in winter ball. Aside from building up innings lost in 2011, he was able to work on his secondary pitches. By the end of spring training, his arm strength should be where it’s supposed to be.
    Expect Phil Hughes to be among the early arrivals in Tampa sometime around the 3rd week in January.

  567. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    He’s gonna have to have one helluva year.

    ===========

    In his walk year ? I would sure hope so for his sake. Still ain’t worth $ 13-15 million per imo.

  568. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    kuroda might be posturing…if the Yanks really want him, he is holding out for more dough….good luck witht that hidecki or whatever your name is

  569. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    given what we heard from kevin towers we’re not even sure that kuroda really wants to sign with an mlb team. he never replied to their offer, and he is rumored to be negtotiating with a japanese team.

  570. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Beltran for 2/26 would have been a really good buy assuming they could have dealt Swisher for something of value.

  571. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    When translated into English, Kuroda = “AL East Soccer Ball”.

  572. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Kuroda faced tougher competition than Hughes last year. He will be fine, because he is a good pitcher. Remember that AJ Burnett was a PROVEN AL EAST pitcher. There is no sure fire strategy to acquiring pitching. The Yankees have been on Kuroda the last 2 years, clearly they like him.

  573. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Rumors have Indians all over Cashman concerning Swisher. Don’t know what they might be offering.

  574. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Beltran’s injury history is essentially one injury…..one that he has played 140+ games in a season in two big ballparks since. RF at YS would have been very doable for him.

  575. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    The Yankees have been on Kuroda the last 2 years, clearly they like him.
    =================================
    clearly he is playing hardball

  576. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    From July through the end of the year, only Boston and Oakland did any damage to Hughes. why Oakland? Who knows? He’s never had trouble with them. Boston hurt every starter on the team. Why should Hughes be any different? hard to bang Hughes for the first three starts of the year when pitching hurt.

  577. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    umors have Indians all over Cashman concerning Swisher. Don’t know what they might be offering.
    =================
    Choo Choooooooooo!!!!!

  578. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Matt Cain pitches in the NL west…..in a giant ballpark……..does that mean he would get ripped apart in the AL east?

  579. Cosmo December 27th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    DSJ December 27th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    What will he bring to the table? Why, cookie dough of course.

    ———

    Lost on that one ? Cookie dough ?

  580. mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    hard to bang Hughes for the first three starts of the year when pitching hurt.
    ================
    he came in out of shape

  581. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    he came in out of shape

    And overworked from his innings jump.

  582. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    actually, only Colon pitched well in starts against Boston…just didn’t win.

  583. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Rumors have Indians all over Cashman concerning Swisher. Don’t know what they might be offering

    =====================

    For 1 year of Swisher? Probably not enough to make it worth doing. Swisher is more valuable to the Yankees as a Yankee than he is a trade bait, IMO.

  584. m December 27th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Hughes came in out of shape, not 30 lbs. over target weight like another pitcher did.

    Is there a link to his showing up “out of shape” led to his shoulder issue? I know Sherman tried</i? to link the two, but it was not convincing.

  585. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    m December 27th, 2011 at 10:49 am
    Now Kuroda’s going to cost $17M?

    —————

    He was always going to cost $17mil – the extra $5 is based on how much the team has to pay to luxury tax if they signed him to a $12 mil deal.

  586. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    mick December 27th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    umors have Indians all over Cashman concerning Swisher. Don’t know what they might be offering.
    =================
    Choo Choooooooooo!!!!!
    —————-

    Good get something for him while the gettin’s good.

  587. m December 27th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Chip,

    Thanks. That makes sense now.

  588. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Here we go with the innings limit Malarkey. Hughes showed up at ST lookin’ like Ralph Kramden. Nuff said.

  589. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Kuroda was ninth in the league in ERA last year. So everyone not in the top eight is only fair to middlin”? He also pitched quite well in 2010.

    Oh wait, I forgot that win-loss record matters if and only if it supports weak arguments.

    As far as Beltran goes, it is my understanding he didn’t want to DH.

  590. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    You can’t trade Swisher now unless the return is either a better outfielder or a starting pitcher that is worth it.

  591. 86w183 December 27th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Reports are that Kuroda wants $ 12-13 M… add 40 % sales tax on the Yankees and it would cost them $ 16.8 – $ 18.2 M to have him for one season.

    Again, he’s 3-8, 4.33 against American League teams

    As for Beltran, he’s a fine player when healthy. But last year was the first time he played more than 81 games since 2008. He’s missed 199 games the last 3 years (66/yr) and turns 35 in April. If not for Montero he would have been a good pickup and could have DH-ed a lot, but once they picked up Swisher’s option Beltran was off the radar.

  592. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    For 1 year of Swisher? Probably not enough to make it worth doing. Swisher is more valuable to the Yankees as a Yankee than he is a trade bait, IMO.

    ———–

    So do you think that the NYY will re-sign him after this year ? If so at what cost ?

  593. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    really no way of knowing about cain vs. the al east since he’s made only 3 starts against them in the last 4 years. (the yankees bombed him way back, though!)

  594. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    You can’t trade Swisher now unless the return is either a better outfielder or a starting pitcher that is worth it.

    ——-

    Why not ? Better to get a ML player now than a draft pick later.

  595. m December 27th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    austinmac,

    I guess Beltran also supports moving Montero behind the plate. :)

    I think Beltran would have DH’d had the Yankees accepted his St. Louis terms.

  596. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    So do you think that the NYY will re-sign him after this year ? If so at what cost ?

    ==================================

    Would not surprise me. Not a lot expected to be avaiable, and my sense is Swisher would like to stay. Maybe 3/$39 with a team option for a 4th year?

  597. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Blake,

    Don’t you understand the NL has no good players and NL West pitchers are no good elsewhere? Cain, Kershaw and Lincecum are AL East soccer balls.

    Hasn’t the NL won the last two Series? Never mind, I forgot that is all pure luck. Funny, it was never luck when the Yankees won.

  598. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:57 am
    Matt Cain pitches in the NL west…..in a giant ballpark……..does that mean he would get ripped apart in the AL east?

    —————————

    You know my take on this:

    I don’t discount Cain because of his NL pedigree anymore than I discount Hamels for his, but if my choices were Cain vs. Greinke at the same price for the same years I take Greinke because he has pitched in the American League for most of his career and I know he’s capable of doing it.

    That’s not to say Cain can’t. But there is too much anecdotal evidence for me to feel real comfortable about investing heavily in a guy who, in my opinion, thrives in an inferior league.

  599. mick December 27th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Hughes showed up at ST lookin’ like Ralph Kramden.
    ==================================
    To the MOOOOON, twitter boy.

  600. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    That’s not to say Cain can’t. But there is too much anecdotal evidence for me to feel real comfortable about investing heavily in a guy who, in my opinion, thrives in an inferior league.

    NL Central/West pitchers pitch in the PCL in the minors which is basically like playing against aluminum bats. While the AL east minor leagues are all in mostly pitcher park environments. You should be going after pitchers on ability, not location.

  601. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    For the paltry amount it will take, I believe the Yanks will sign Naka. It gives Cashman a lotta options concerning trading Nunez immediately and down-the-road\ July 31. Right now, Cashman has absolutely nobody of merit to replace Nunez should he wantta seriously consider a trade proposal, and he has had many to date. Signing Naka make sence short and long-term.

  602. Cosmo December 27th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    The SF Giants aren’t going to let go of their home grown pitching talent. That is the backbone of their team.

  603. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    - MICK -
    Bang-Zoom

  604. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    For what it’s worth – Matt Cain has started 19 non World Series games against AL teams:

    137 IP, 2.62 ERA, 115 K, 40 BB, .099 WHIP

  605. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:11 am
    That’s not to say Cain can’t. But there is too much anecdotal evidence for me to feel real comfortable about investing heavily in a guy who, in my opinion, thrives in an inferior league.

    NL Central/West pitchers pitch in the PCL in the minors which is basically like playing against aluminum bats. While the AL east minor leagues are all in mostly pitcher park environments. You should be going after pitchers on ability, not location.

    ————–

    Cain is 7 years removed from the minor leagues – how he did in the PCL is as irrelevant as how he did in high school.

  606. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Would not surprise me. Not a lot expected to be avaiable, and my sense is Swisher would like to stay. Maybe 3/$39 with a team option for a 4th year?

    ————-

    I just don’t see it with all the other aging players and expensive contracts existing. Time to get younger and more athletic in RF. To expensive, thanks for everything Nicky.

  607. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    I have Not seen anything regarding Cain being available. This is just more King Felix stuff.

  608. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    For what it’s worth – Matt Cain has started 19 non World Series games against AL teams:

    9 Of those starts against the Oakland Pathetics. Find me someone who has started 90% of their games against top 2 offenses in the AL east then we can talk.

  609. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    and for the record JFace:

    Cain in his one season in AAA wasn’t very good compared to how he’s performed in the majors:

    145 IP, 4.39 ERA, 176 K, 1.3 WHIP

  610. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Cain is 7 years removed from the minor leagues – how he did in the PCL is as irrelevant as how he did in high school.

    You people are acting like these guys have never faced adversity before and its goal post moving. A convenient excuse to shut down talks on a guy you don’t like, or something to ignore on a guy you do. First its major league experience then they cant pitch in the NL west then its not in the NL at all then its not the AL west then it has to be AL east experience. Never mind that going to the AL (presumably for OUR team) eliminates one of the reasons the AL is so tough. Facing the Orioles, Rays, Athletics, Mariners, Royals, Indians, White Sox, and Twins is a cake walk. Its all the pitchers that have to face the Yankees regularly that suffer.

  611. mick December 27th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    I think Cain will be able…

  612. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    The formula is simple: Acquire pitchers that strike people out, don’t walk people, and preferably get ground balls. You can give a little here and there but for the AL not walking people is probably one of the better things to not compromise on.

  613. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Cain is 7 years removed from the minor leagues – how he did in the PCL is as irrelevant as how he did in high school.

    ================================

    No more irrelevent than his 6 seasons in the NL would be were he to move to an AL organization.

  614. mick December 27th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    stop all the intellectual BS about baseball.

  615. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    “Don’t you understand the NL has no good players and NL West pitchers are no good elsewhere? Cain, Kershaw and Lincecum are AL East soccer balls.”

    I know…..honestly there really isn’t much difference in the leagues anymore. The NL actually probably has more young talent to be honest.

  616. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    I have Not seen anything regarding Cain being available. This is just more King Felix stuff.

    ———-

    Aww come on now ? Cain, Hamels, King Felix, Kershaw, Lincecum, Wilson, Kuroda, Darvish, Jurrgins, Koufax, Marichal………………………NYY are linked to getting everybody and anybody in here ! :lol: A running joke.

  617. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    I’m still waiting to hear a legitimate source concerning Cain’s availability. Fun to talk about, but so is the King Felix BS.

  618. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    I’m still waiting to hear a legitimate source concerning Cain’s availability.

    Cain is just an allegory, god!

  619. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    “Why not ? Better to get a ML player now than a draft pick later.”

    Because they need a Rfer in 2012.

  620. mick December 27th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Koufax and Marichal are available? i’ll take the jew.

  621. Cosmo December 27th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Cain in his one season in AAA wasn’t very good compared to how he’s performed in the majors:

    145 IP, 4.39 ERA, 176 K, 1.3 WHIP

    ==============

    So you are quoting AAA stats when he was still a teenager ? Irrelevant to say the least.

  622. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    A lotta Fantasy Land tickets being scalpped on this Blog today. Whose buying this stuff?

  623. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Dogface,

    To say Cain or any pitcher’s NL record is irrelevant is ridiculous. Utterly and completely ridiculous.

    That said, Cain to the Yankees is as likely as me starting on opening day.

  624. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Austin:

    Maybe so, but much dumber still is identifying a pitcher from the NL as somehow incapable of pitching in the AL.

  625. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    People talk about Cain b/c he’s going to be a free agent next year, isn’t that obvious? The Giants aren’t trading him but he’s a name people throw out there because he will be available soon.

    And yea, Kuroda is actually a perfect fit on the Yankees and I don’t believe for an instant that they aren’t strongly interested in signing him.

  626. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Because they need a Rfer in 2012.

    ============

    Choo ? Younger, cheaper (now) good average, power, speed, defense. Going to get expensive soon as a Boras client, the Tribe probably won’t want to pony up. Swisher and a AAA pitcher for Choo. Just do it.

  627. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Damn I’d love Choo but he would be hard to get and it’s almost a guarantee he will hit free agency

  628. 86w183 December 27th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    No one here has claimed NL pitchers are incapable of succeeding in the AL, but stats to have to be placed in context.

    The same applies to AL hitters who go to big yards in the NL and all of sudden can’t hit with as much power — hello Aaron Rowand.

    I care not a whit about the Yanks RF in 2012.

    Mick — that line about Cain being able was a killer!

  629. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:18 am
    Cain is 7 years removed from the minor leagues – how he did in the PCL is as irrelevant as how he did in high school.

    You people are acting like these guys have never faced adversity before and its goal post moving. A convenient excuse to shut down talks on a guy you don’t like, or something to ignore on a guy you do. First its major league experience then they cant pitch in the NL west then its not in the NL at all then its not the AL west then it has to be AL east experience. Never mind that going to the AL (presumably for OUR team) eliminates one of the reasons the AL is so tough. Facing the Orioles, Rays, Athletics, Mariners, Royals, Indians, White Sox, and Twins is a cake walk. Its all the pitchers that have to face the Yankees regularly that suffer.

    ——————–

    League Average in runs scored in 2011 was 694

    16 teams finished above league average

    In the AL
    NYY
    BOS
    Bal
    Toronto
    Tampa Bay
    Texas
    Detroit
    KC
    CLE

    The NL Teams were
    Arizona
    St. Louis
    Colorado
    Cincy
    NYM
    Philly
    Milwaukee

    So your assertion that not facing the Yankees would make the AL some sort of cake walk is factually wrong.

  630. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Not sure the ballparks in the NL are any different than AL. There is a pretty even mix of hitters and pitchers parks in both leagues.

    Your Rowand example.. he had one really good offensive year with the White Sox and one really good offensive year with the Phillies. Mediocre to crap otherwise

  631. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    I would trade Swisher for Choo because he’s controlled for 2 years instead of one……but I don’t know why the Indians would unless the pot was sweetened with prospects to a point that it becomes counterproductive.

  632. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Trade Swisher and his $ 10.25 million. See if Boras and Choo will bite on an extension, 4 for $ 40 – $ 45 million which will take him until he is 33 then he can go FA.

  633. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Cosmo December 27th, 2011 at 11:28 am
    Cain in his one season in AAA wasn’t very good compared to how he’s performed in the majors:

    145 IP, 4.39 ERA, 176 K, 1.3 WHIP

    ==============

    So you are quoting AAA stats when he was still a teenager ? Irrelevant to say the least.

    —————

    I’m not – If you look back you will see where I said that his minor league numbers were as irrelevant as his high school numbers. JFace was the one who pointed out that we should use his PCL numbers as a gauge as to what he might do in a more hitter friendly league.

  634. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 11:31 am
    Dogface,

    To say Cain or any pitcher’s NL record is irrelevant is ridiculous. Utterly and completely ridiculous.

    That said, Cain to the Yankees is as likely as me starting on opening day.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Mac,

    Can you get me a free ticket to the opening series right next to the Yankee dugout and make sure the beer and hotdogs are free?

  635. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Pretty sure Jerkface was saying that pitchers in the NL west had to play in a league / ballparks that are very offensively favored and should be able to handle the adversity of moving to the AL because of that experience. It’s not like they have only played in a pitcher friendly league, they have experience against strong offenses.

  636. DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Just guessin’, but didn’t Choo have a DUI? Coupled with the injuries could factor into Cleveland lookin’ to move a Boras client Now.

  637. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Why would the Indians trade 2 years of Choo for 1 year of Swisher? My guess is Cleveland was interested in Swisher to add with Choo to their lineup….not in place of him.

  638. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:41 am
    Not sure the ballparks in the NL are any different than AL. There is a pretty even mix of hitters and pitchers parks in both leagues.

    —————-

    You already know I absolutely disagree with this post.

    Pitcher parks in the NL:
    Petco
    Pac Bell
    Dodger Stadium
    Minute Maid (though that’s offset by the Astros having really bad pitchers)
    Turner
    Citi
    Nationals Park

    Pitcher Parks in the AL
    Detroit
    Seattle
    Target Field
    Oakland

    Hitter Parks in the NL
    Cincy
    Philly
    Wrigley when the wind is blowing out

    Hitter Parks in the AL
    Yankee Stadium
    Fenway
    Camden
    Texas
    Cleveland

    It’s not a huge difference, but with an unbalanced schedule a guy like Cain (who for the record I would sign) would be going from a division with the worst hitting parks to a division with the best hitting parks.

  639. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    JFace was the one who pointed out that we should use his PCL numbers as a gauge as to what he might do in a more hitter friendly league.

    No I didn’t. I used the PCL as an example of NL pitchers having to face some difficulty. And then i said ‘Don’t scout on location, scout on ability’. Which is the opposite of what you just said there.

  640. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Why would the Indians trade 2 years of Choo for 1 year of Swisher? My guess is Cleveland was interested in Swisher to add with Choo to their lineup….not in place of him.

    They wouldn’t make that trade but we can dream of Choo on the Yanks :(

  641. Cosmo December 27th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    I’m not – If you look back you will see where I said that his minor league numbers were as irrelevant as his high school numbers. JFace was the one who pointed out that we should use his PCL numbers as a gauge as to what he might do in a more hitter friendly league.

    ======

    If I missed that then my bad, sorry.

  642. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    So your assertion that not facing the Yankees would make the AL some sort of cake walk is factually wrong.

    Why are you going by runs per game and not what the hitters actually hit? Runs don’t magically appear.

  643. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    Just guessin’, but didn’t Choo have a DUI? Coupled with the injuries could factor into Cleveland lookin’ to move a Boras client Now.

    ===============================

    Yup. I’m sure they’re looking to move him now, while his value is at it’s lowest.

  644. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    GB,

    No problem for an opening day starter like me to get you tickets. Could you lend me the moeny to buy them? Hal said every penny counts.

  645. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Wow, reading comprehension and common sense have taken a dive off a cliff in here today.

  646. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:47 am
    Pretty sure Jerkface was saying that pitchers in the NL west had to play in a league / ballparks that are very offensively favored and should be able to handle the adversity of moving to the AL because of that experience. It’s not like they have only played in a pitcher friendly league, they have experience against strong offenses.

    —————-

    Patrick

    As illustrated above – Cain (can’t say it enough – I would sign him) would go from pitching in a division with a majority of pitcher friendly parks and light offenses to a division with a majority of hitter friendly parks and more powerful lineups.

    Now, his run support would clearly change (San Francisco had the second worst offense in baseball last year – Yankees had the second best) but in terms of opposition, he would go from pitching the majority of his games against teams that ranked 8th, 9th, 21st and 28th in total offense to the teams that ranked 1st, 6th, 14th and 15th

  647. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Chip just go here http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

    Do you really think Cain couldn’t pitch in the AL East?

  648. Bret The Hitman December 27th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Why does a Choo acquisition have to involve Swisher at all? Just get Choo and it’s easy to find a taker for Swish. That lowers payroll and upgrades the offense short term and long term. Plus maybe the Yankees can get something good for Swisher.

    The Indians only have Choo for 2 more years and they won’t be able to re-sign him. The Yankees are supposed to have a stacked farm. Nothing of interest to Cleveland?

  649. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Pitcher parks in the NL:
    Petco
    Pac Bell
    Dodger Stadium
    Minute Maid (though that’s offset by the Astros having really bad pitchers)
    Turner
    Citi
    Nationals Park

    Lmao @ listing Minute Maid as a pitcher park but Yankee Stadium as a hitters park. Did you miss the minute maid porch?

  650. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Why would the Indians trade 2 years of Choo for 1 year of Swisher? My guess is Cleveland was interested in Swisher to add with Choo to their lineup….not in place of him.

    =============

    The Yanks have plenty of chips to throw out there for Choo, if the Tribe wants Swisher throw an offer out there. IMO Choo has much more upside than Swisher and putting him in the NYY lineup should only make him better.

    Swisher, a AAA arm and AJ, with the Yanks eating $ 10 million of his remaining contract for Choo. What’s not to like ?

  651. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Minute Maid Park – 7th, 1.1 run differential.

    If people would actually look things up before spewing their opinions around here, half of the conversations would disappear.

  652. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Swisher, a AAA arm and AJ, with the Yanks eating $ 10 million of his remaining contract for Choo. What’s not to like ?
    ======================

    Nothing…….unless you happen to be Cleveland.

  653. Bret The Hitman December 27th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Move Swisher in a separate deal. There are plenty of chips to deal for Choo.

    Choo chips:

    Gardner
    Heathcott
    JR Murphy
    Noesi
    Warren
    Betances

  654. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 11:52 am
    So your assertion that not facing the Yankees would make the AL some sort of cake walk is factually wrong.

    Why are you going by runs per game and not what the hitters actually hit? Runs don’t magically appear.

    —————-

    I’m actually going by total runs scored not RPG or BA.

    If you want to go by OPS – there are 14 teams above league average – 8 are from the AL and all 5 AL East Teams again make the cut with Texas, Detroit and KC rounding it out.

    SLG % – again all five AL East teams are above league average

    OPS+ – Toronto is the only AL East team not above league average – they score a 95 whereas AVG is 97.

  655. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    “Swisher, a AAA arm and AJ, with the Yanks eating $ 10 million of his remaining contract for Choo. What’s not to like ?”

    Well you’re adding 20 million to Cleveland’s payroll and they are getting back a rental of Swisher and an old expensive AJ Burnett……unless that AAA pitcher is Banuelos I doubt thelast Indians would like that deal.

  656. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 11:54 am
    Chip just go here http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor

    Do you really think Cain couldn’t pitch in the AL East?

    ———–

    Of course I think he can pitch in the AL East – I said a bunch of times that I would sign him as a FA.

  657. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Of course I think he can pitch in the AL East – I said a bunch of times that I would sign him as a FA.

    Then why the heck are we arguing!? We all agree there would be some adjustment of Cain’s stats upwards but it won’t be so huge that he turns into a 4 or 5 starter…

  658. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    The Pirates still have money to spend and their top priority is a starting pitcher, writes Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. About three weeks ago, the Pirates signed Erik Bedard and released Ross Ohlendorf. Paul Maholm, who made 26 starts for the Bucs this year, is expected to sign elsewhere. The list of unsigned free agent starters remains robust as December draws to a close.”

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    AJ and 16 million dollars for 3 Terrible Towels!

  659. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    Can the Pirates find something better than AJ at 2/16?

  660. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    If you want to go by OPS – there are 14 teams above league average – 8 are from the AL and all 5 AL East Teams again make the cut with Texas, Detroit and KC rounding it out.

    BOS, TEX, NYY, and DET last year were a cut above the rest of the MLB offensively. TBR and BAL were above MLB average (not by much though) but BELOW AL average. The AL east is difficult because of the Yankees. Coming to the Yankees eliminates one of the most difficult factors. The rays are often tough because of their pitching, not because they hit the ball well.

  661. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Can the Pirates find something better than AJ at 2/16?

    =========================

    Yes. AJ at 2/12

  662. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
    Of course I think he can pitch in the AL East – I said a bunch of times that I would sign him as a FA.

    Then why the heck are we arguing!? We all agree there would be some adjustment of Cain’s stats upwards but it won’t be so huge that he turns into a 4 or 5 starter…

    ———–

    I wasn’t really arguing with you – I was arguing with Face’s “observation” that the AL east is some sort of cake walk if you take the Yankees out of it.

  663. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    “Yes. AJ at 2/12″

    That doesn’t count.

  664. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
    Can the Pirates find something better than AJ at 2/16?

    ————–

    Yeah Prospect X at league min

  665. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Blake:

    I’d talk to Vazquez if were the Pirates.

  666. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    I was arguing with Face’s “observation” that the AL east is some sort of cake walk if you take the Yankees out of it.

    A little hyperbole, but the point stands. Coming TO the Yankees is a lot easier than coming to any other team except Boston, simply because the Yankees are always one of the best teams and removing them as an opponent is beneficial.

  667. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    “Yeah Prospect X at league min”

    Prospect x isn’t giving you 200 innings and shouldn’t AJ turn into a 15 game winner after getting out of the AL east and becoming an NL chucker? ;)

  668. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Well you’re adding 20 million to Cleveland’s payroll and they are getting back a rental of Swisher and an old expensive AJ Burnett……unless that AAA pitcher is Banuelos I doubt thelast Indians would like that deal.

    ==============

    Their payroll is less than $ 50 million. Giving them 3 guys to start on their ML team would help them.

  669. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    Vasquez would be a nice fit yup

  670. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    “Their payroll is less than $ 50 million. Giving them 3 guys to start on their ML team would help them”

    Yea so you probably have to assume they wouldn’t like trading one or their best players to add 20 million bucks unless that AAA prospect was really good.

  671. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    If Kuroda coming to the AL east would make him worse…….then shouldn’t AJ going to the NL make him better? Or doesn’t it work in reverse?

  672. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 12:15 pm
    I was arguing with Face’s “observation” that the AL east is some sort of cake walk if you take the Yankees out of it.

    A little hyperbole, but the point stands. Coming TO the Yankees is a lot easier than coming to any other team except Boston, simply because the Yankees are always one of the best teams and removing them as an opponent is beneficial.

    ————-

    That’s completely false.

    A pitcher who goes to the NL West – say Ian Kennedy – goes from having to face Boston, Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa to having to face Colorado, the Dodgers, Giants and Padres – The Giants and Padres are two of the worst offensive clubs in baseball. The only time Kennedy would have to face the top offensive clubs is in sporatic interleague play or the World Series.

  673. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa to having to face Colorado, the Dodgers, Giants and Padres – The Giants and Padres are two of the worst offensive clubs in baseball. The only time Kennedy would have to face the top offensive clubs is in sporatic interleague play or the World Series.

    Balt, Toronto, Tampa, Colorado, Dodgers, Giants, Padres: other than the padres these teams sit in a cluster separated by about 60 OPS points. Note, that the rockies are the best team you listed here. The Yankees are 60 OPS points better than the Rays. And 50 points better than the rockies.

    WHICH IS THE POINT. There isn’t a big enough difference between the teams you’ve listed for someone to say that a pitcher is going to struggle mightily going from 1 group to the other because you’ve ELIMINATED THE TEAM THAT IS BETTER THAN THE GROUP BY A FACTOR THAT IS THE GROUPS ENTIRE DEVIATION.

    Kuroda was on the dodgers, which means he also faces the Diamondbacks (who were better than the Rays, Bal, Blue Jays)

  674. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Their payroll is less than $ 50 million. Giving them 3 guys to start on their ML team would help them

    =========================

    Lot of good that will do the GM who would be summarily dismissed for being a dumba$$ after making such a bad trade.

  675. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Betances and Romine for Garza. Who says yes?

  676. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:22 pm
    If Kuroda coming to the AL east would make him worse…….then shouldn’t AJ going to the NL make him better? Or doesn’t it work in reverse?

    ———-

    It should have some impact – but if you’re a non-competative team like the Pirates – why do you want to spend money on a 35 year old pitcher? He’s not part of your long term solution, he’s not going to help you win anything this year, and given his history – he’s not going to represent a valuable trade commodity at mid season. Plus you’re locked in to him for not just one year, but two.

  677. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
    Betances and Romine for Garza. Who says yes?

    ——————–

    Cashman – but he would likely be talking to a dial tone.

    Did you not see what Oakland and San Diego got for pitchers without Garza’s track record?

  678. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    “Did you not see what Oakland and San Diego got for pitchers without Garza’s track record?”

    Twice as many years of control in both cases……..and both pitchers cheaper than Garza.

  679. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Matt Garza? A 3.32 ERA in the NL? Under .500??? No way I’d trsut him in the AL east.

  680. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Betances and Romine for Garza. Who says yes?

    ==========================

    I’d imagine Cashman would be OK with it.

    Chip:

    Latos and Gonzalez have years of team control remaining that Garza does not. Latos is a similar talent IMO, while Gonzalez is a cut below. Those cheap years carry a lot of value. I’m not sure the Cubs can command or expect a similar package.

  681. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    ian kennedy vs. the AL the past 2 seasons:

    2011 vs. kc, oak, minn, cle 4.40 era

    2010 vs. bos, det. tampa 6.5 era

    what’s changed? pitching to teams with ridiculously weak bottoms of their orders in the nl west. (10-0 in division last season)

  682. Gary December 27th, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    I won my Fantasy League, now if we can just get the G Men across the finish line.

  683. m December 27th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Gary,

    Too bad the blog died during the Giants/Jets game.

    I would have loved to have seen the commentary here.

  684. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Ys,
    Small samples…..really irrelevant.

  685. Mike Ri December 27th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Betances and Romine for Garza. Who says yes?

    —–

    In a second blake ! I’d even throw in a 100 dollar gift card to Best Buy

  686. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    GMs these days value years of control a ton. Latos has 5 and Gio has 4. Garza is getting relatively expensive and only has two years left until free agency……and hes nktbeen a #1….Betances and Romine would be a pretty good return for him……I don’t know if id do it from the Yanks POV but Id certainly consider it.

  687. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
    “Did you not see what Oakland and San Diego got for pitchers without Garza’s track record?”

    Twice as many years of control in both cases……..and both pitchers cheaper than Garza.

    —————

    Yes but neither pitcher is as good as Garza. The lack of years is offset by the improvement in talent level.

  688. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
    GMs these days value years of control a ton. Latos has 5 and Gio has 4. Garza is getting relatively expensive and only has two years left until free agency……and hes nktbeen a #1….Betances and Romine would be a pretty good return for him……I don’t know if id do it from the Yanks POV but Id certainly consider it
    ————-

    GMs value talent much more than control.

    Cashman gave up 6 years of control with Austin Jackson to get Curtis Granderson.

  689. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 27th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    blake,

    I think that there is plenty of offense in the NL. Not sure that stigma really sticks as much these days.

    The AL East definitely has the deepest offenses of any division, can’t argue with that.

    Also, I agree that Kuroda’s ERA would inflate in the AL East, but not necessarily across the entire AL.

    If Kuroda could be signed at a reasonable price $11-12M and we could deal AJ, I’m all for it, but dealing AJ will be a tall task, especially with his limited no trade (anyone know what teams?).

    I think I’d rather have Oswalt, personally…worth the risk.

  690. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    If you want to go by OPS – there are 14 teams above league average – 8 are from the AL and all 5 AL East Teams again make the cut with Texas, Detroit and KC rounding it out

    Does it ever occur to people that maybe the AL east doesn’t have the best pitching, and that also contributes to the inflated “run difference” between the divisions?

    I’m certain the difference is less significant than is being suggested. I’d like to see a breakdown on runs scored against division opponents in the AL east vs the rest of the league for the yankees, then the same thing done with the dodgers or giants in the NL west.

    Someone do that, I’m not doing any more stats research this week :p

  691. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Latos and Gio are pretty much on the same tier as Garza……and Latos in particular has more upside. Garza might be a little better now……but he’s also finished developing and has little room left to grow….

  692. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    ian kennedy vs. the AL the past 2 seasons:

    2011 vs. kc, oak, minn, cle 4.40 era

    2010 vs. bos, det. tampa 6.5 era

    what’s changed? pitching to teams with ridiculously weak bottoms of their orders in the nl west. (10-0 in division last season)

    ==================================

    Why can’t he be more like Sabathia?

    Against Boston, Texas, and Detroit:

    Sabathia = 3-5 with a 5.54 ERA

    Against teams under .500:

    Sabathia 10-0 with a 1.81, including 3-0 w/ a 1.99 against the NL

    Sometimes good pitchers get hit. When they do, it’s oftentimes the better offensive clubs that do it.

  693. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Actually it would probably be better to do the breakdown for Baltimore and the Giants, rather than the Yankees.

    Go… do good work instead of just conjecture and nonsense.

  694. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    “Cashman gave up 6 years of control with Austin Jackson to get Curtis Granderson.”

    Not applicable …..Jackson had never played in the bigs……Latos and Gio both have proven themselves at the major league level

  695. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Hypothetic Trade (Non Yankees)

    Tampa gets: Anthony Rizzo and Chase Headley

    SDP gets: James Shields and a minor leaguer

    Rizzo becomes Tampa’s 1st baseman and Chase moves to the OF allowing them to put Zobrist back at his 2b spot.

  696. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    “Ys,
    Small samples…..really irrelevant.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    not when it just confirms what we saw when he was in the american league.

  697. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
    “Cashman gave up 6 years of control with Austin Jackson to get Curtis Granderson.”

    Not applicable …..Jackson had never played in the bigs……Latos and Gio both have proven themselves at the major league level

    —————

    Ok.

    I still think Garza would cost more than that.

    My guess is you could start there but you would have to throw in either Gardner or one of the two high upside guys in the low minors – Williams or Sanchez.

  698. yanks 27 December 27th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    There is also a significant disadvantage to winning the WC from now on… no team wants to put themselves in a situation where their season comes down to 1 game (and you don’t control who starts that 1 game either, imagine putting Hughes or Burnett in that game)?

    Previously, there was no premium on winning the division… just outlast one of TB/BOS and we’re fine. No longer the case. Thus, even incremental upgrades in this new format are critical.

    People can try to convince themselves otherwise, but I don’t think anyone feels comfortable with Garcia/Nova/Hughes/Burnett manning the final 4 spots in the rotation, based on uncertainty alone. Even Nova, the most proven commodity in that lot, has to prove he can do it again and even Cashman emphasized that point multiple times this winter in his interviews.

  699. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    “not when it just confirms what we saw when he was in the american league.”

    How many games did he pitch in the American league? He’s gotten better since then also.

  700. blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    “My guess is you could start there but you would have to throw in either Gardner or one of the two high upside guys in the low minors – Williams or Sanchez”

    Then you say no……the point is that the price for Garza SHOULD be less than Latos and Gio…..if that’s not the case then you don’t deal.

  701. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 27th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Garza isn’t the type of difference-maker the Yankees need.

    He also isn’t worth the package he would likely command from the Cubs to acquire him.

    I think discussing Garza is non-sense, even if the Yankees have had discussions with the Cubs within the past couple months.

    God knows what Epstein will want in return.

  702. mick December 27th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    you guys are crazy…mental masturbation….get some lives.
    oh yeah, happy hollidays.

  703. ET December 27th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Starters have better numbers against losing teams than winning teams? Who could ever come to such a conclusion????!?!

    Anyone want to take a look at CC’s numbers against the best teams he faced last year? Ain’t pretty…

    Ok, let’s pretend this AL/NL divide actually exists. How many points are you adding to Kennedy’s ERA?

  704. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    Kennedy made 12 starts in the AL at ages 22 and 23……can we draw conclusions from that?

  705. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    “Ys,
    Small samples…..really irrelevant.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++

    not when it just confirms what we saw when he was in the american league.

    =============================

    That was a small sample too though. Less than a dozen games as a 22-23 year old probably isn’t a fair representation. Not to say he could come to the AL and dominate, but he’s a 27 year old now with his MLB sea legs under him. He could come to the Yankees now and stand a very good shot at being their 2nd best starter.

  706. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    blake – if only he played for boston, he’d be in the hall by now.

  707. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 27th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    yanks 27,

    You’re right…anyone who claims they’re comfortable with that rotation over a full season is lyin to themselves.

    But there were not any viable upgrades on the FA market whose prices weren’t sky high (see CJ Wilson and Yu Darvish). Maybe Buerhle was a possibility, but even he was relatively expensive.

    I genuinely believe that if a viable optoin presented itself via trade, Cashman would pull the trigger, but I think he is holding out on the hopes that someone like Felix becomes available when Seattle starts to tank in early June (if not sooner).

    That will be the kind of difference-making trade that is worthwhile to the Yankees to make.

  708. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Garza is one of the best examples of a 2 starter in baseball.

  709. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Ys Guy – save your breath. When emotion gets the best of fans, as oftentimes it will, and they are willing to look at a successful W-L record and get dizzyingly excited and refuse to look at anything around it (such as who was the competition, minor things like that) there is nothing you will be able to say to ground such people. Their decision that certain pitchers belong in the Bronx cannot be changed.

    I think ID and GB would agree with that take.

    I also notice that there seems to be a bit of an umbrage-taking by certain west coast posters with respect to west coast prospects/players, as if it is a personal affront to question whether or not certain west-coast players have the ability to successfully bring their talents to the East coast.

  710. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Hypothetic Trade (Non Yankees)

    Tampa gets: Anthony Rizzo and Chase Headley

    SDP gets: James Shields and a minor leaguer

    Rizzo becomes Tampa’s 1st baseman and Chase moves to the OF allowing them to put Zobrist back at his 2b spot.
    ========================

    See Tampa’s point of view, but wouldn’t make much sense for the Pads to follow up the Latos deal by trading young guys for Shields.

  711. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    are we pining to get austin jackson (.317 obp) back?

  712. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    “Ok, let’s pretend this AL/NL divide actually exists. How many points are you adding to Kennedy’s ERA?”

    I’m not even worried about adding points. I’m more worried about whether he has the mental makeup to play in the Bronx. I actually take that into account whenever a trade is made because the highways are littered with programs containing the names of players who came to the Bronx and were going to save the Yankees – and ended up being a disaster.

    That’s how I see Kennedy. My right last time I looked – just as it’s the right of others to see him as the great white hope.

    That said, I don’t buy into immediate success stories of pitchers leaving the NL and coming to the AL and especially not of those who have spent their careers in the NL or who have already been with the Yankees and couldn’t cut it the first time (think Javy Vazquez).

  713. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    I think we all know that poor managing (2010) and lack of Yankee participation (Mariano, Arod, Jeter) hurt the AL’s chances of success in the last two All Star Games. Ron Washington also left a lot to be desired this year. JMO

  714. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 27th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    blake,

    Garza is not worth dumping a premier package of prospects on. Simple as that.

    I’m all for dealing prospects in the right trade, but the asking price for starters right now is absurd…better to hold off for someone you’re willing to unleash the farm for. Garza is not that guy by a wide margin.

    If the asking price comes down and we can hold on to one of Banuelos/Betances as well as Montero, then maybe you look into it. Otherwise, why not see what those guys can do for New York over the first half of the season?

  715. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Trying to judge mental makeup by lumping players together is an exercise in futility. It’s best to stick to the things that are easier to evaluate rather than always be worried someone might pee their pants on the mound in Yankee stadium. They might also turn into Cy Young. You can never be certain.

  716. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 27th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Why are we discussing Austin Jackson on this board right now??????

    He is beyond irrelevant to anything the Yankees have or need right now.

  717. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    “If the asking price comes down and we can hold on to one of Banuelos/Betances as well as Montero, then maybe you look into it. Otherwise, why not see what those guys can do for New York over the first half of the season?”

    I suggested Betances and Romine because I see that as fair…..I wouldn’t give any more than that if Id even give that……and certainly not Montero.

  718. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Reading comprehension got you down? Just come to lohud, where you can say any singular word in any context, and have it taken 8 different ways, thrown at you, proved wrong and turned upside down.

    Some of you are really quite ridiculous.

  719. Mike Ri December 27th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    The Mad Prince in Pinstripes —

    Why is Garza not the right guy ??

    He’s a good pitcher .. AL EAST battle tested , young . has good stuff . .a competitor .

    what more do you want for a number 2 …

    If the price is right …its a no brainer . Garza is a legit number 2

  720. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Matt Garza:

    4 full seasons as a starter. (3 in the AL east )
    4 sub 4 era seasons
    4 sub 1.3 WHIP seasons
    4 around 200 innings seasons.

  721. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    And Garza was a real AL east pitcher because he had to face both the Yankees and Red Sox……..not saying trade the farm for him……but he’s pretty much the definition of a #2 and has been very very consistent as a big league starter.

  722. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    “Trying to judge mental makeup by lumping players together is an exercise in futility. It’s best to stick to the things that are easier to evaluate rather than always be worried someone might pee their pants on the mound in Yankee stadium. They might also turn into Cy Young. You can never be certain.”

    ID not sure if this is in reference to the things I’ve said but I’ve seen enough pants peeing to last me a lifetime. And when I’ve already seen someone wet the mound at the Stadium, believe me, I’m not anxious to give second chances. I don’t care a whit about how someone is pitching in the NL West, if they’ve sucked in the AL or shown some personality aspect that lends to their having a better time in a less-pressured environment, that’s where I want them to remain.

    The Bronx is no place for thin-skinned players. Period.

  723. Mike Ri December 27th, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Garza –

    The peripheral stats (2.95 FIP) are as good as it gets. Garza struck out 23.5% of the batters he faced in 2011 (8.85 K/9) while walking just 7.5% (2.86 BB/9), and he got a ground ball 46.3% of the time. That allowed him to keep the ball in the building (0.64 HR/9) despite pitching in a notorious hitters? park.

    Garza has proven to be durable, making at least 30 starts and throwing at least 180 IP in each of the last four seasons. If you go back to 2006 and include his time in in the minors, it?s six straight seasons of at least 30 starts and 175 IP. Pretty impressive.

  724. m December 27th, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Garza would be GREAT on this team. He would definitely cost prospects. Outside of Montero and one of the B’s, he would be worth the prospects. What other pitcher is available that can be a difference maker on this team?

    Right now, I’d say Garza or let the kids pitch until the 2012 FA pitching class.

  725. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    I absolutely believe that Matt Garza could master the Bronx. He’s one pitcher I would not be afraid to see on the mound in Yankee Stadium.

  726. ET December 27th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Garza is a guy I’d give up Betances/Sanchez/Romine/Phelps for.

  727. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
    “My guess is you could start there but you would have to throw in either Gardner or one of the two high upside guys in the low minors – Williams or Sanchez”

    Then you say no……the point is that the price for Garza SHOULD be less than Latos and Gio…..if that’s not the case then you don’t deal.

    ————-

    I think you’re greatly overvaluing control vs. talent.

    I think most GMs – especially those of teams with means – would rather have the better pitcher than the pitcher with more years of cost control.

    Garza has established himself as a clear number 2 pitcher in this game – Latos and Gio have really only had one good year each. Certainly both are talented, but with them you’re trading for potential more than you are for what they can do today.

    Now, that’s not to say you trade your farm for an ace approaching free agency – Cashman’s philosophy has always been that he won’t trade off a ton of prospects for someone he’s going to have to sign to a big contract (though he went away from that in the Lee negotiations).

  728. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    “Garza is a guy I’d give up Betances/Sanchez/Romine/Phelps for.”

    That’s a better package than the As got for Gio…..take Sanchez out and Id think about it.

  729. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    “Reading comprehension got you down? Just come to lohud, where you can say any singular word in any context, and have it taken 8 different ways, thrown at you, proved wrong and turned upside down.”

    :)

  730. Abomb82 December 27th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    “Right now, I’d say Garza or let the kids pitch until the 2012 FA pitching class.”

    The 2012 class could end up being even worse than this year if Hamels/Cain sign their extensions. Reports out of SF already say that Giants are going to focus on locking up Cain because they’ve made little progress with Lincecum. Amaro already said he sees no reason why they wouldn’t be able to lock up Hamels. I’d be thrilled if one of them reaches FA.

    If not, Annibal Sanchez becomes the most attractive guy.

    Kemp, Danks, Weaver already were off the market. I believe this is the year that Verlander/King Felix were supposed to be FAs too but they obviously got locked up.

  731. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Chip,

    The key is talent plus control…..4 or 5 years of a talented pitcher will cost more than 1 or 2.

  732. Ruby Red Sock December 27th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Time for a big load of Christmas Cookie Dough!!!!!!!

  733. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Wouldn’t it be a hoot if Theo refused (behind the scenes anyway) to entertain any of the Sux proposals “just because” and decided to let Garza make his way to the Bronx? Helping out the Yankees would be a good way to stick it to the three stooges!

  734. Against All Odds December 27th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Verlander was suppose to be in the Beckett, Cain, Lee, and Halladay class

  735. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Smart teams lock up great pitchers. Nothing says that Theo is going to let go of Garza, though he isn’t expected to have the Cubs win a world series title his first year there, so letting go of Garza for some really good prospects wouldn’t probably hurt his reputation a bit.

  736. Mike Ri December 27th, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    rotoworld.

    Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein said the team is weighing the trade value of Matt Garza versus possibly signing him to an extension.Epstein says the Cubs will “listen on anybody” but that Garza is “exactly type of pitcher we want to build around” and the club will “not rush into anything.”

  737. blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    My guess is that Theo is both shopping Garza and talking extension with him at the same time …..

  738. yanks 27 December 27th, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    I wouldn’t count on help in the FA class next year, honestly. If Hamels or Cain do end up there, then awesome, but I wouldn’t put my eggs in that basket.

  739. m December 27th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Even if Hamels/Cain are extended/re-signed/traded elsewhere & sign, that’s no reason to NOT be patient. We have pitchers and no one else good is available. I don’t want to make a bad deal or a bad signing just for the sake of making a deal or signing a pitcher.

  740. Ruby Red Sock December 27th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Christmas Cookie Dough for Garza??? Or save it for……………………………..?????????????

  741. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    My guess is that Theo is both shopping Garza and talking extension with him at the same time …..

    Which is exactly what he should be doing.

    Chicago’s talent pool is not that weak that they need a total rebuild, nor is there a dominant force in that division (even with the World Champs in it).

    Garza and Castro are the two guys on that team that you build around

  742. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Theo would be crazy not to sign Garza to an extension, though if someone came across with an astronomically stupid package for Garza (meaning they get the short end of the stick) Theo would be crazy not to take it. I’m not counting on that happening though.

  743. m December 27th, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Theo would have to make it worth while for Garza. He could get a huge contract upon FA.

  744. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    As happy as I am to always let the Yankees do their thing, and as unworried as I would be going into the season as currently constituted, rotation-wise, I’d sure love to see Garza in pinstripes.

    Seriously doubtful that it will happen however.

  745. mick December 27th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    do you think cashman cares about what a bunch of hacks on a blog think about his moves or lack of? gee, that jerkface guy has a point there maybe i should get his email address or chip or better yet brett the hitman they have the right idea about hughes, joba, gardner et al….shall I contact Chad for their personal emails…..hmmmmmm

  746. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 2:25 pm

    do you think cashman cares about what a bunch of hacks on a blog think about his moves or lack of?

    Did anyone here say they thought that?

  747. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    nick cafardo in the extra bases blog:

    “Garza is a nice fit for Boston. He’d be an excellent piece to their rotation and they know it. Not sure they have what it takes to give up in a deal, however. That was the reason they walked away from Gio Gonzalez.”

  748. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    He should have worded that better, “Thats the reason Beane walked away from them.”

  749. blake December 27th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    Boston doesn’t have the pieces to get Garza without totally gutting their system of top talent or touching their big league roster……and I doubt Theo would deal the Sox so soon anyway……

    The Yanks actually matchup well I would think if they wanted to pursue it.

  750. m December 27th, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    Pete is a realist. Cafardo has his head stuck in the sand a lot of the time.

  751. m December 27th, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Maybe the Cubs need to deal Garza to get the piece they need to send to Boston to complete the Epstein deal. :P

  752. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    I love how people tend to think their prospects are all gold and everyone else’s system is devoid of talent.

    I’m sure if you went to a Boston blog you would read about how Jesus Montero and Manny Banuelos are the second coming of Ruben Rivera and Brien Taylor.

  753. blake December 27th, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Chip,

    The difference is that the Yankees have a top 5 farm system now and the Red Sox don’t……just look at the rankings. Aside from Middlebrooks all of Boston’s top guys are in A ball or lower…….its a fact that the Yankees have more trade chips right now and that’s confirmed by pretty much all resources.

  754. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    can’t see us getting garza without giving up 2 young pitchers plus. i dont think its worth it in the long run.

  755. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Aside from Middlebrooks all of Boston’s top guys are in A ball or lower

    ========================

    Same as the Yankees, ‘cept they’ve got 3 guys in the upper minors, no?

  756. RayVT December 27th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    If I were the RSox, I’d sign Prince Fielder & trade AGone for an ace SP & prospects.

  757. Phranchise December 27th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    Yeah, Boston papers just keep creating some sort of buzz. Reality, they traded away Lowrie who is a position guy who could start for a team away. They are short on minor league talent at upper levels. AA players and single A guys just don’t hold much value. Just think of the overhyped Lars Anderson who was the second coming just a few short years back. All this is is news just to write something. I am sure they asked about Gio and Bailey. What would Beane do give them a discount than he does with other teams? They simply have nothing to trade with the A’s. Maybe Middlebrooks and more gets them Bailey. If this talent was so good and close, they would have been plugging these guys into their own needs instead of looking elsewhere.

  758. m December 27th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    From what I’ve seen on Red Sox blogs, they’re pretty realistic about the state of their farm system.

  759. Phranchise December 27th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Aside from Montero, Banuelos, Betcances.

    Warren, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Romine, etc are all far better than what Boston can get out of their AAA and AA teams.

  760. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    dont seem to be many aces being offered in trades and any team that needs a 1bman can just sign prince themselves, no?

  761. blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    “Same as the Yankees, ‘cept they’ve got 3 guys in the upper minors, no?”

    Well first…..having three of those guys in the upper levels is a bug deal and a big difference in systems…..2nd the Yanks have a lot more 2nd tier pitching depth and catching depth in the upper levels as well. Boston missed the playoffs last year because they had nothing that coukd help at AAA……they don’t have a Romine…..or a Noesi or a Warren etc……so yea I think the Yanks system is better and deeper right now.

  762. m December 27th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Cashman has done a nice job building up the system. Part of that has come from a moratorium on trading away real prospects.

    Our system is good and healthy. Players that have fed the big club, brought back players like Granderson and Swisher (okay, Betemit was not a real prospect and that was not a real trade), post winning seasons, and helped shoot the Yankees to top percentile in multiple rankings.

    If we’re proud of our system, it’s simply because it wasn’t always something to be proud of. Nothing wrong with that. We’ve got good players, and we aren’t willing to part with them for junk or just for the sake of making a move.

  763. m December 27th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    *multiple farm system rankings.

  764. RayVT December 27th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Fielder is being pursued & will cost a lot more than AGone does. I believe AGone has a NT clause though. AGone is better overall IMO. Plus everything would depend on RSox signing Fielder.

  765. blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    The Sox have a lot of talent in the lower levels……but so do most teams. Its really tough to project guys until they show something above AA.

  766. dogface December 27th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Well first…..having three of those guys in the upper levels is a bug deal and a big difference in systems…..2nd the Yanks have a lot more 2nd tier pitching depth and catching depth in the upper levels as well. Boston missed the playoffs last year because they had nothing that coukd help at AAA……they don’t have a Romine…..or a Noesi or a Warren etc……so yea I think the Yanks system is better and deeper right now

    ==============================

    I agree. Wasn’t really arguing that. Should have clarified that I really thinking in terms of the Yankees position player prospects being low minors. Pitching prospect depth can’t be questioned, though I do think the 2nd tier guys are a little overrated by Yankees fans. Warren or Phelps (read: close to MLB ready back of the rotation starters) are great, but plenty of teams (obviously excluding Boston right now)do.

  767. DaSaint007 December 27th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Cashman has the following advantages:
    1. A team that as presently constructed, can score a lot of runs (see Tex, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Gardner, Granderson and Swisher), and had the best record in the AL East last season.
    2. The best bullpen in the AL.
    3. An acknowledged ace leading the rotation in CC, a viable 12-game winner as his #5 in Garcia, and current #2, #3, and #4 pitchers in AJ, Hughes, and Nova who are capable of an average of 15 wins each.
    4. Acknowledged, and desirable Top pitching and catching talent in their minor league system.
    5. Time.

  768. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
    Chip,

    The difference is that the Yankees have a top 5 farm system now and the Red Sox don’t……just look at the rankings. Aside from Middlebrooks all of Boston’s top guys are in A ball or lower…….its a fact that the Yankees have more trade chips right now and that’s confirmed by pretty much all resources.

    ———————–

    Those rankings are great for fans – but do you think Billy Beane cares where Baseball America ranks the Yankee minor leagues as compared to Boston’s? Or do you think he cares more about what his own internal scouts tell him about the players they see in both organizations and how those players would translate to the A’s organization?

  769. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Compare the Red Sox and Yankee Top 10. Its empirical that the Yankees have a better farm system if you’re looking at trade chips and ability to help at the major league level:

    Boston
    1. Will Middlebrooks 3B
    2. Xander Bogarts SS
    3. Blake Swihart C
    4. Anthony Ranaudo RHP
    5. Bryce Brentz OF
    6. Brandon Jacobs OF
    7. Garin Cecchini 3B
    8. Matt Barnes RHP
    9. Ryan Lavarnway C
    10. Jackie Bradley OF

    Yankees
    1. Jesus Montero C
    2. Manny Banuelos LHP
    3. Dellin Betances RHP
    4. Gary Sanchez C
    5. Mason Williams OF
    6. Dante Bichette JR 3B
    7. Ravel Santana OF
    8. Austin Romine C
    9. JR Murphy C/3B
    10. Slade Heathcott OF

    The Red Sox’s best pitcher is in A ball and has a 4 ERA

  770. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    but in the end, some team is getting agon instead of prince, maybe saving a couple million but losing it’s ace. dont see that happening.

  771. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    but do you think Billy Beane cares where Baseball America ranks the Yankee minor leagues as compared to Boston’s

    Maybe not, but he cares about the prospects returning to him. Look at the major trades this offseason, then look at the ranking of the prospects dealt. No team is trading guys that wouldn’t crack a top 100 or a top 10 team’s top 10 for these pitchers.

  772. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
    The Sox have a lot of talent in the lower levels……but so do most teams. Its really tough to project guys until they show something above AA.

    ——————

    which is why if someone comes a calling for Gary Sanchez I’m not walking away from the deal.

  773. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    No team is going: “Man I really want Xander Bogarts!!”

  774. blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    “Warren or Phelps (read: close to MLB ready back of the rotation starters) are great, but plenty of teams (obviously excluding Boston right now)do.”

    Agree…..but those kind of guys can help facilitate deals as many teams need guys ready to go into their rotations in trades.

    Chip,

    Im not sure what your point is……of course teams evaluate other teams systems internally….but based on what we know there is no reason to think it would be much different than any other publication…….most of Boston’s top guys are years away…..and that’s less ibtersting in trades because there is more risk.

  775. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
    but do you think Billy Beane cares where Baseball America ranks the Yankee minor leagues as compared to Boston’s

    Maybe not, but he cares about the prospects returning to him. Look at the major trades this offseason, then look at the ranking of the prospects dealt. No team is trading guys that wouldn’t crack a top 100 or a top 10 team’s top 10 for these pitchers.

    ————

    Yes, but do you think Beane has meetings and says to his guys “wait, I want the guys Baseball America or Baseball Prospectus rank as 1, 5, and 9 in X organization” or does he want the guys who his own scouts and evaluators rank as 1, 5 and 9 in X organization which may or may not be the same to the rankings of the fan sites?

    If Beane thinks that Will Middlebrooks and Ryan Kalish are better fits for his organization’s needs than Dellin Betances and Austin Romine, then it doesn’t matter where Betances and Romine rank on Baseball America as compared to Middlebrooks and Kalish.

  776. blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    “which is why if someone comes a calling for Gary Sanchez I’m not walking away from the deal.”

    Depends on what its for

  777. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    If Beane thinks that Will Middlebrooks and Ryan Kalish are better fits for his organization’s needs than Dellin Betances and Austin Romine, then it doesn’t matter where Betances and Romine rank on Baseball America as compared to Middlebrooks and Kalish.

    Your hypothetical is possible, but 99% of trades work within the ranking structure that BA and other publications use. So while I’m sure there will be a case where a team goes outside of the reported rankings on a trade, for the most part the top prospects are the top prospects because they perform and teams want the top prospects…

    I don’t think Beane is going to go: “Hey I want your pitcher even though he isn’t even in your top 10 because I think he is a shining star in Oakland” He will get your 1,2,3 ranked guy and then trade you some superfluous crap for the ‘hidden gem’.

    Just like he isn’t going to trade Gio Gonzalez for Ryan Kalish and Will Middlebrooks because those guys don’t have the prospect weight compared to any other package he can get regardless of how they fit the oakland system. Even if the WSN prospects don’t end up playing for Oakland, they can still return more in another trade because they are good prospects.

  778. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Chip,

    Im not sure what your point is……of course teams evaluate other teams systems internally….but based on what we know there is no reason to think it would be much different than any other publication…….most of Boston’s top guys are years away…..and that’s less ibtersting in trades because there is more risk.
    —————-

    My point is just that we can’t look at what other teams give up in trades or ask for the Yankees and say “wow, they want so much more from the Yankees than they want from Team X” or “Team Y has a terrible farm system compared to the Yankees” because the sites we base these opinions on may not have the same valuation of the Yankee organization as a team like the Mariners would for example.

    Every evaluation site said that the offer the Yankees had on the table for Cliff Lee was vastly superior to the one that the M’s eventually took for him from Texas, but (right or wrong) Seattle had a different evaluation of the players than those sites did and acted in what they believed was their best interests.

    So when we say “Boston doesn’t have the pieces to trade for Player X” we don’t know that for sure – we don’t know what Player X’s team needs and how they feel about the prospects in Boston’s system.

  779. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    And according to like… every article and whenever Cashman talks… teams go, “I want your top prospect”. And the top prospect is usually universal… Teams ask for Montero because he is the Yankees #1 prospect.

  780. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
    “which is why if someone comes a calling for Gary Sanchez I’m not walking away from the deal.”

    Depends on what its for

    ————

    Of course.

  781. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    So when we say “Boston doesn’t have the pieces to trade for Player X”

    We can say this when Boston doesn’t have a good farm system. Teams with bad farm systems don’t make the trades. You’re nitpicking the differences between good farm systems and individual prospects (Smoak vs Montero) and trying to say that Boston might have a secretly stacked farm that can get them any player.

  782. blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Every evaluation site said that the offer the Yankees had on the table for Cliff Lee was vastly superior to the one that the M’s eventually took for him from Texas, but (right or wrong) Seattle had a different evaluation of the players than those sites did and acted in what they believed was their best interests”

    Maybe they should go by the guidelines more often……..

  783. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
    “which is why if someone comes a calling for Gary Sanchez I’m not walking away from the deal.”

    Depends on what its for

    ——–

    Let’s put it this way – if the Yankees are offering Betances and Romine for Garza and Theo wants Betances, Romine and Sanchez I’m not letting Gary hold up the deal.

  784. RayVT December 27th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    DaSaint007 December 27th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    And you didn’t Mention Montero being added as a bat & BUC all year.

  785. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Thinking a little bit more about the Yankees’ sudden aversion to the luxury tax this morning, another thought hit me, this time about the sheer irrationality of the Yankees’ position as related by Matthews.

    The general premise goes like this: Hiroki Kuroda will cost about $12 million to sign, but since the Yankees will have to pay a luxury tax bill next year, the “real” cost of signing Kuroda would be roughly $17 million, or the cost of his salary plus the bump to the tax bill. That’s pretty straight-forward, and it’s also a really foolish way to conceptualize the imposition of the tax. Why? Because the Yankees aren’t being taxed on the acquisition of Kuroda, but on the cost of the payroll as a whole. To that end, the best way to view the cost of the tax is to spread the cost evenly between each player on the roster and add that number to everyone’s salary.

    This is obviously a more logical method of accounting, since it accounts for everyone’s share of the tax bill and, by extension, their share of the luxury tax bill. Using the method the Yankees are describing doesn’t work well at all, because it can be arranged in a wholly arbitrary manner, namely by where you start adding up everyone’s salary. Taken quite literally, if I added up every player’s salary and started with Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, A.J. Burnett, and Rafael Soriano you could technically claim that those salaries are tax free, since I haven’t crossed the luxury tax threshold yet. That wouldn’t make a lick of sense.

    Of course, if you use my method, the marginal cost of the tax increase is very small, and the value of each player’s contract doesn’t change much, if at all. That, I would argue, should be rather plain: considering that the Yankees’ payroll will be roughly $200 million this year, an extra $5 million in a luxury tax bill comes out to about 2.5% of that figure, a relatively inconsequential number. And rather than distort the “value” of individuals on the roster in obviously ridiculous ways, this method leaves you with a much more sound view of the team’s financial state: some players are reasonably priced, others are great bargains, and others, most notably Alex Rodriguez and Rafael Soriano, are being drastically overpaid.

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....rrational/

    Its about the money is one of my favorite blogs.

  786. Jacques Strappe December 27th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Obviously Cashman is trying to get the payroll down closer to (or under) the luxury tax threshold.

    Once the Yanks go under the threshold, their ‘tax’ rate would be rolled back to the lowest rate should they go over the threshold again.

    Paying the tax is clearly an ongoing budgetary factor. Such as a $12 million Kuroda contract actually costing the team over $17 million. That’s part of why the tax exists of course.

    Any chance Cashman’s shedding payroll not only for the immediate annual savings, but also with the thought in mind of targeting certain free agents down the road?

    I wouldn’t mind if team policy allowed for going over the threshold for certain types of perennial all-star players under a certain age, instead of someone who’s only average or slightly above average but coming off one single ‘career’ season, or steady players reaching the age where they’ll have declined significantly by the end of their next contracts.

    As for the age aspect, only go over the threshold for older players (30-35) if they’re willing to go with contracts of a more reasonable length. There must be some loophole in the luxury tax which allows them to be compensated in other ways, while not putting the team into luxury tax hock for years and still being fair to both sides.

    The signing of every Ed Whitson, Steve Balboni, Jason Giambi, 38+ former superstar pitcher (Big Unit, older Rocket) Carl Pavano or AJ Burnett out there really has to be a thing of the past. A-Rod (long term w/decline expected) and Rafael Soriano (player w/injury history given TWO player option years) contracts too.

  787. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:58 am
    actually, only Colon pitched well in starts against Boston…just didn’t win.
    ///

    Actually, C pitched a great game for 5 plus innings at home. Got into trouble in the sixth, which he appeared to had gotten out of, when Varitek should have been called out looking, which would have ended the inning. He got rooked on that call, and ran out of gas. But that was a quality start. He gets that call, we’re out of there with the lead, and probably win that game.

  788. blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    With over 600 million in revenues Kuroda isn’t going to break the Yankees bank no.matter if they want to pay luxury tax or not……if they are dead set on a payroll number and just want to stay more.flexible in season then ok I guess……but its never bern about not having the money…….its about not wanting to spend it.

    Chip,

    Betances, Romine, and Sanchez is too much…..that wipes out your catching depth……and that’s more than the As paid for Gio.

  789. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Jerkface

    The problem with your method is that it’s not correct.

    The $5 million extra tacked on to the Kuroda deal is not what the Yankees would pay in total it is, in fact, what the Yankees would have to pay just on his contract. The Yankees as a club will have to pay a total of 40% per million that they’re over the tax threshold this year. As they’re already over, that is 40% of every contract that they sign from this point out. Assuming a $12 mil contract for Kuroda that equals just a shade under $5 mil.

  790. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    The problem with your method is that it’s not correct.

    Its not my method but its the method that makes sense. The Yankees are going to be over the limit due to their total amount of contracts, not because of signing 1 player. Tax should be distributed across the entire group.

  791. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
    With over 600 million in revenues Kuroda isn’t going to break the Yankees bank no.matter if they want to pay luxury tax or not……if they are dead set on a payroll number and just want to stay more.flexible in season then ok I guess……but its never bern about not having the money…….its about not wanting to spend it.

    ————

    Blake – I completely agree. When Cashman saw something he wanted he was authorized to spend to get it (Lee) and as that money hasn’t been spent I assume it is still around if he determines that there’s a player out there he really wants to get.

    My guess is that Kuroda is not that player.

  792. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
    The problem with your method is that it’s not correct.

    Its not my method but its the method that makes sense. The Yankees are going to be over the limit due to their total amount of contracts, not because of signing 1 player. Tax should be distributed across the entire group.

    ————–

    Well okay – but what makes sense and what is fact are in this case not the same thing.

    The Yankees being over the tax have to pay 40% on each new contract that they sign. That means that even if we were to accept even distribution of the tax, Kuroda is still raising it $5 mil, which is not a pittance. The Yankees are being charged $13 mil in tax already for 2011, so if you assume a similar number next year (which you can since the Yankee payroll won’t decrease by all that much between now and next December) you’re looking at raising their tax obligation by nearly 30% for one player.

  793. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    “Its not my method but its the method that makes sense. The Yankees are going to be over the limit due to their total amount of contracts, not because of signing 1 player. Tax should be distributed across the entire group.”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    this is so convoluted it sounds like congress wrote it. if they sign kuroda to a $12M contract and the tax is 40% it costs the yankees $16.8M to sign him. there is no other method.

  794. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    this is so convoluted it sounds like congress wrote it. if they sign kuroda to a $12M contract and the tax is 40% it costs the yankees $16.8M to sign him. there is no other method.

    How is it convoluted to assign a tax across an entire roster? The Yankees are over the Tax due to A-rod, AJ, Soriano, Cc, Tex, etc. They should share the burden of the tax that their enormous contracts has caused.

  795. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    I suggested Betances and Romine because I see that as fair
    ////

    Betances for Matt Garza I would not do even up.

  796. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    The problem with your method is that it’s not correct.

    Its not my method but its the method that makes sense. The Yankees are going to be over the limit due to their total amount of contracts, not because of signing 1 player. Tax should be distributed across the entire group.
    =============

    The method is incorrect, because it fails to account for the fact that decision-making occurs at the margin. The values of the other contracts are fixed in the short run, while Kuroda’s is variable. This essentially suggests that the values of the existing contracts are sunk costs to the extent that the Yanks are not willing to shed existing contracts, and thus not relevant to making the choice of signing an additional player. The Yankees can avoid the entire incremental increase in luxury tax payments by not signing Kuroda, or they can assume the increment by signing Kroda. The other method that the Yanks could use to limit luxury tax payments would be to shed an existing contract (in which the player in question becomes the marginal player).

  797. m December 27th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Is it 40% across the board or 40% for the amount over the threshold?

  798. yanks 27 December 27th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    I could see a Brandon Jacobs, Bogarts, Middlebrooks, and Lavarnway for Garza trade. It would be a steep price for Bos but they need pitching

  799. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    m December 27th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Is it 40% across the board or 40% for the amount over the threshold?
    ==

    The latter

  800. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
    this is so convoluted it sounds like congress wrote it. if they sign kuroda to a $12M contract and the tax is 40% it costs the yankees $16.8M to sign him. there is no other method.

    How is it convoluted to assign a tax across an entire roster? The Yankees are over the Tax due to A-rod, AJ, Soriano, Cc, Tex, etc. They should share the burden of the tax that their enormous contracts has caused.

    —————-

    It’s not like splitting a check at dinner where you cut the liability of the guy who spent the most by everyone chipping in the same amount. The bottom line is that if the Yankees sign Kuroda, Hal has to throw another $5 mil into the luxury tax pile next year on top of what he’s already going to pay for the players currently on the roster.

  801. Abomb82 December 27th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    “Betances for Matt Garza I would not do even up.”

    And this is the other end of the spectrum….

  802. blake December 27th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    “Betances for Matt Garza I would not do even up.”

    I know you wouldn’t……not saying you’re wrong but I would have to pull the trigger on that.

  803. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    It’s not like splitting a check at dinner where you cut the liability of the guy who spent the most by everyone chipping in the same amount.

    You also don’t make millions of dollars by eating dinner :) Signing Kuroda or any player can be the difference in wins for the team.

  804. m December 27th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Ghostwriter,

    Thanks, that’s what I thought.

    Either way you slice it, I can see why the Yankees want to bring it down. You can’t begrudge them for it. I mean you can, but you’d look like a spoiled little kid doing it. ;)

  805. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    m December 27th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
    Is it 40% across the board or 40% for the amount over the threshold?

    —————-

    40% on every dollar spent over the tax limit.

  806. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Why do some Yankee fans care what the team pays in luxury tax next season?

  807. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    m December 27th, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Ghostwriter,

    Thanks, that’s what I thought.

    Either way you slice it, I can see why the Yankees want to bring it down. You can’t begrudge them for it. I mean you can, but you’d look like a spoiled little kid doing it. ;)
    ======

    It’s like paying overtime. No business want to do it on a regular basis: It makes more sense to hire an additional worker than to pay the existing worker time-and-a-half.

  808. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    The reason it is 40% is because the Yankees have been above the threshold for more than 2 years in a row. That’s why they’re so anxious to get under it just once, it resets the clock back down to 22.5% the next time they go over it.

  809. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    The Red Sox’s best pitcher is in A ball and has a 4 ERA
    ////

    No one who remotely follows prospects and farm systems would try to seriously refute the superiority of the Yankees’ farm system over Boston’s. At the upper levels, one is rich in pitching, the other is barren.

  810. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    lets say the yankees payroll currently stands at $185M and the threshold is $179M. so the yankees luxury tax amount is now $2.4M and their total payroll + tax is $187.5M. when you sign kuroda to a $12M contract the luxury tax total goes up to $7.2M and the total for payroll plus tax goes up to $204.3M. thats an increase of $16.8M over what you were paying before you signed Kuroda.

  811. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I would buy the marginal cost increase of Kuroda if the roster was uniformly constructed, but it isn’t. Players were brought in outside of a thorough process, and far too much allocated to certain players. They should bear the burden of any increased penalties in trying to build a winning team. Especially short term (1 year) costs.

  812. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    That’s why they’re so anxious to get under it just once

    Any 1 year deal for 2012 won’t affect the Yankees ability to get under it, just once.

  813. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
    Why do some Yankee fans care what the team pays in luxury tax next season?

    —————-

    Normally I wouldn’t give a poop. And I think that if the right player was available, Brian and even Hal wouldn’t give a poop either. That being said, they’re not going to keep adding to the luxury tax pool for players who aren’t clear difference makers (in their opinion) and based on the fact that they’re not offering him a contract – they don’t feel Kuroda is a clear difference maker worth going an additional $12 mil over the threshold for.

  814. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Garza is going to cost $9M next season.

    $12M with the luxury tax.

    Way too rich for the Yankees blood.

  815. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    thats an increase of $16.8M over what you were paying before you signed Kuroda.

    Now how much more revenue was gained from the increase in winning + potential playoff revenue that Kuroda value adds to the team?

  816. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    That’s why they’re so anxious to get under it just once

    Any 1 year deal for 2012 won’t affect the Yankees ability to get under it, just once.

    ——-

    Agreed but it would add nearly 30% to their tax bill for 2012 which is also not something they are in the mood to do. At least not for the addition of Kuroda.

  817. m December 27th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Thanks, Chip.

    So, we will have to suffer a little longer for the big contracts already signed. Having $120M assigned to like 7 players or whatever it is is the problem.

  818. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Why do some Yankee fans care what the team pays in luxury tax next season?
    =

    At the end of the day, I don’t really care. I don’t own a stake in the team, and my earnings will remain the same regardless of the Yanks’ profitability. However, as a Yankee fan, I would prefer to see the Yanks making wise choices with their limited resources, because I don’t want t see them run the team down an unsustainable path, because it ultimately will reflect itself on the product on the field. Being a Yankee fan is more fun when the Yanks are competitive.

  819. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
    “Betances for Matt Garza I would not do even up.”

    I know you wouldn’t……not saying you’re wrong but I would have to pull the trigger on that.
    ///

    I know you know I wouldn’t; just restating my case on the oft-read Lohud blog, where posts fly by and go up in smoke, necessitating reiteration for emphasis ;).

    I also like Garza, even moreso that his flyball rates are down. But not trading Betances’ future for Garza’s present.

  820. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    The Yankee payroll projects at $194 with arbitration salaries right now.

  821. blake December 27th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    “Why do some Yankee fans care what the team pays in luxury tax next season?”

    Don’t you want Hal to get richer?

  822. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    “Now how much more revenue was gained from the increase in winning + potential playoff revenue that Kuroda value adds to the team?”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    well its very hard to calculate how much a 3rd (4th?) #3/4 type pitcher onto the club. assuming his 37 year old arm holds up, i’d say it increases the chances marginally.

  823. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    Garza is going to cost $9M next season.

    $12M with the luxury tax.

    Way too rich for the Yankees blood.

    ————

    I get the snark, but I’m going to respond anyway with – the difference between trading for a player vs. signing a free agent is that you can offset some of the salary coming your way.

    If, for example, Hughes went to the Cubs for Garza then even with the Luxury Tax the Yankees are only paying 7 mil for Garza, not 12.

  824. blake December 27th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    What are the odds that Betances is ever as good as Garza is right now?

  825. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    If, for example, Hughes went to the Cubs for Garza then even with the Luxury Tax the Yankees are only paying 7 mil for Garza, not 12.

    In a realistic trade for Garza, the Yankees are assuming the entire salary and saving none.

  826. Your Worst Nightmare December 27th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    When will the Kuroda thing be over with. The NYY aren’t paying $ 12 million plus for an old pitcher they don’t need. Get over it already.

  827. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    m December 27th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
    Thanks, Chip.

    So, we will have to suffer a little longer for the big contracts already signed. Having $120M assigned to like 7 players or whatever it is is the problem.

    ————–

    Yeah but with the “Poverty Floor” established the Yankees can (next year) try to help themselves out by finding a team that is below that limit by a lot to take on the contract of Raf Soriano or AJ Burnett or both.

  828. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    well its very hard to calculate how much a 3rd (4th?) #3/4 type pitcher onto the club. assuming his 37 year old arm holds up, i’d say it increases the chances marginally.

    Kuroda is a #2, would increase their chances of winning by more than your margin.

  829. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
    What are the odds that Betances is ever as good as Garza is right now?

    -0—————

    20%?

    Which is why Theo would never deal Garza for Betances straight up

  830. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    I would buy the marginal cost increase of Kuroda if the roster was uniformly constructed, but it isn’t. Players were brought in outside of a thorough process, and far too much allocated to certain players. They should bear the burden of any increased penalties in trying to build a winning team. Especially short term (1 year) costs.
    =========

    What does the uniformity of the construction of the roster have to do with the decision of whether to sign Kuroda?

    What does it mean when you say “they should bear the burden of any increased penalties in trying to build a winning team?” Who should bear the burden of any increased penalties? How so?

  831. Mike_Boston December 27th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    “Betances for Matt Garza I would not do even up.”
    —————————————————————-
    You have to give to get. Giving up your #2 pitching prospect for a legitimate #2 starter, tested in the AL east and under control, you would have to make that deal. Theo would want more and you would give a Romine type, but that’s about where I would stop with the blue chippers. You don’t move your top chips unless it’s a Lee/Doc type of return. Your #3 chip is similar to what GG brought back. It’s fine to want to keep your kids but at some point they will be forced to move them or lose them. I have no problem whatsoever with how quiet Cash has been this winter. He’s not going to over pay or be reactionary to placate the fan base. That’s exactly what you want out of your GM when he’s in the position to not have to make moves for the sake of making them. Prices for quality starters are so out of whack it would be foolish to make some of these deals that were/are out there.
    That being said I would bring back Colon to a year deal with a team option, for depth. Sure up the bench, find another serviceable LOOGY and see you in Tampa!

  832. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    “Cashman has the following advantages:
    1. A team that as presently constructed, can score a lot of runs (see Tex, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Gardner, Granderson and Swisher), and had the best record in the AL East last season.
    2. The best bullpen in the AL.
    3. An acknowledged ace leading the rotation in CC, a viable 12-game winner as his #5 in Garcia, and current #2, #3, and #4 pitchers in AJ, Hughes, and Nova who are capable of an average of 15 wins each.
    4. Acknowledged, and desirable Top pitching and catching talent in their minor league system.
    5. Time.”

    :)

    Brilliant DaSaint. It seems that for some though, it’s never enough.

    For me, those advantages certainly cause me to sleep well at night!!!

    **********

    Okay so I’ve been really out of the loop. Sux traded Jed Lowrie? Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid – and good for us.

  833. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
    well its very hard to calculate how much a 3rd (4th?) #3/4 type pitcher onto the club. assuming his 37 year old arm holds up, i’d say it increases the chances marginally.

    Kuroda is a #2, would increase their chances of winning by more than your margin
    ———–

    Unless you’re going to sit there and try to convince us that Kuroda is going to ensure that the Yankees get to the ALCS and World Series there’s nothing he can do that will bring an additional $17 mil in revenue to the Yankees.

    They were second in home attendance per game last year. Kuroda’s not going to bring more fans to the games, he’s not going to get a better YES contract or radio deal from CBS.

  834. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    What does it mean when you say “they should bear the burden of any increased penalties in trying to build a winning team?” Who should bear the burden of any increased penalties? How so?

    The players that were brought in outside of these new limitations should accept the spread of luxury tax on any player acquisitions. I’d be happy to assign all of any luxury tax penalty from Kuroda to AJ burnett :)

  835. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    “Why do some Yankee fans care what the team pays in luxury tax next season”

    1. Some of us care about the organization and are so grateful for all the money they have been willing to sink into players so that we as fans have had the luxury to root for winning teams over the years, that if they want to cut back a bit, we understand. It’s their money, not ours.

    2. Some of us are not greedy SOBs who are so hell bent at winning at any cost that we are all bent out of shape when the organization does (or does not do) something that ends up offending our great managing skillls and hurting our little feelings.

    3. Some of us actually believe the Yankees know how to run a team and have faith in what they feel they need to do – and are grateful to be rooting for the Yankees, no matter who they run out on the field.

    4. Some of us are just grateful and appreciative by nature and are quicker to say “thank you” than “WTF??????”

    Does that work?

  836. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    By the way, in case you didn’t get the memo, the Yankees don’t owe anyone on this forum anything beyond putting together a team that they feel has the potential to win.

    Here’s a hint: It may not be the same one you’ve been dreaming of. In that case, you lose!

    :)

  837. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
    What does it mean when you say “they should bear the burden of any increased penalties in trying to build a winning team?” Who should bear the burden of any increased penalties? How so?

    The players that were brought in outside of these new limitations should accept the spread of luxury tax on any player acquisitions. I’d be happy to assign all of any luxury tax penalty from Kuroda to AJ burnett
    ———-

    But again – what difference does that make? Hal is still going to end up with an extra $5 mil in tax to pay by signing Kuroda that he wouldn’t have to pay if he doesn’t. Who cares what name you put it under on the spreadsheet.

    I have Verizon for TV, phone and internet. If they raise each of them by $10/month it is just the same as if they raise one of them by $30/month.

  838. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    But again – what difference does that make?

    It makes a difference when considering Kuroda to only cost 13 mil instead of 17 mil because of useless players like AJ Burnett, Feliciano, and Soriano on the roster :)

  839. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    “Ghostwriter,

    Thanks, that’s what I thought.

    Either way you slice it, I can see why the Yankees want to bring it down. You can’t begrudge them for it. I mean you can, but you’d look like a spoiled little kid doing it. ”

    mel, mel, mel, stop being reasonable PLEASE! You look like you don’t even belong on this forum!!!

    ;)

  840. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    In the end, the only issue I have with the Yankee payroll will be if we see a situation where it’s regularly shrinking while ticket prices keep going up.

    But even then – I can’t fault a team that has regularly had the highest payroll in baseball as being cheap.

  841. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Chip – here’s another one. Not everyone is sold on Kuroda. For all we know, the Yankees may not be either. So then this whole discussion would become moot, no?

    :)

  842. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
    But again – what difference does that make?

    It makes a difference when considering Kuroda to only cost 13 mil instead of 17 mil because of useless players like AJ Burnett, Feliciano, and Soriano on the roster
    ———–

    Nope, that just makes it look better on a spreadsheet – end of the day you’re still spending $17 mil more to have him than you are to not have him.

    If you can find a way to make the signing revenue neutral (as in find someone willing to take $17 mil off the current Yankee payroll) then you might have something. Until then, all you’re doing by spreading the money around is making the individual numbers look better – the total stays the same.

  843. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
    Chip – here’s another one. Not everyone is sold on Kuroda. For all we know, the Yankees may not be either. So then this whole discussion would become moot, no?

    ————

    Agreed.

    I’ve said it so many times now – when Cashman wanted the money for Lee he was authorized to spend it. I’m sure if Cashman had the same feeling about Kuroda he would get the money from Hal. The fact that he hasn’t tells me that he doesn’t see Kuroda being that much of a difference maker to the team.

  844. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    I’ve said it so many times now – when Cashman wanted the money for Lee he was authorized to spend it.

    Then when he didn’t spend it, the Hal and Randy spent the difference on Soriano, blocking future moves that could improve the team. Bad business.

  845. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    What does it mean when you say “they should bear the burden of any increased penalties in trying to build a winning team?” Who should bear the burden of any increased penalties? How so?

    The players that were brought in outside of these new limitations should accept the spread of luxury tax on any player acquisitions. I’d be happy to assign all of any luxury tax penalty from Kuroda to AJ burnett :)
    ===========

    I still don’t understand. Are you saying that the players should pay this tax?

  846. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    josh Norris on Manny Banuelos

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....manny.html

  847. Abomb82 December 27th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Kuroda is better than any pitcher they have aside from CC.

  848. luis December 27th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Hi everyone,

    I haven’t been able to post regularly due to work, but i’m glad that at least i am able to do it once in while.

    My two cents: i wouldn’t trade Betances for Garza. His future far outweights the present that Garza brings, especially if you have to add Romine in the package to get him. The detractors would say that future or potencial doesn’t equate to present performance, and they would have a point, but i think the organization has both the time and the resourses to wait and see, especially with the FA class of 2012.

  849. Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    one thought about this luxury tax business – i think the effect of a kuroda signing would not just be the 5 mil now, but that it would delay re-setting the luxury tax “clock”/tbhreshold in the years ahead. the tax would then excalate to upwards of 50%, whereas if you come under the threshold for one year, and go over the next, the payment is something less than 20% (17.5%?)

  850. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Cashman has been trying to get Kuroda for two years, as recently as 6 months ago, but suddenly he doesn’t want him?

    Come on.

  851. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Norris on Melky Mesa

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....melky.html

  852. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
    What are the odds that Betances is ever as good as Garza is right now?
    ////

    No one knows for sure how his career will play out, but I’ve seen enough flashes of greatness to want to hang on tight. This season will be very important for Betances. My feeling is, if he stays healthy, he’s going to take a leap forward while returning to the greater form we saw (I saw?) in 2010.

  853. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    I still don’t understand. Are you saying that the players should pay this tax?

    No I’m saying when the Yankees consider the money spent on Kuroda, the luxury tax hit should be spread across all their idiot contracts. Not as a marginal increase in cost of Kuroda himself. They are paying a penalty for all of their contracts. I understand that signing Kuroda or anyone is what triggers the additional increase but its their stupid contracts that got them in this mess. Write them off, eat the 5 mil.

  854. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    luis December 27th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
    Hi everyone,
    ///

    Hey, luis! How’s it going my man? Did you have a fantastic Christmas? I certainly hope so.

  855. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    one thought about this luxury tax business – i think the effect of a kuroda signing would not just be the 5 mil now, but that it would delay re-setting the luxury tax “clock”/tbhreshold in the years ahead.

    They are already over the threshold for next year, so signing Kuroda wouldnt affect it.

  856. Chip December 27th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    I’ve said it so many times now – when Cashman wanted the money for Lee he was authorized to spend it.

    Then when he didn’t spend it, the Hal and Randy spent the difference on Soriano, blocking future moves that could improve the team. Bad business.

    ———-

    Yankees offered Lee somewhere around $26 mil/year gave Soriano $11 mil – even crummy math suggests the Yankees would still have at least $15 mil to spend if they so desired.

  857. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
    Why do some Yankee fans care what the team pays in luxury tax next season?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Why did some people piss and moan about what NYYs paid Jeter?

  858. blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Josh Norris thinks Betances is a reliever going forward doesn’t he?

  859. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    The Yankees are 16M over the luxury tax threshold already.

    They are about 15M below their payroll from last season.

  860. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    I’ve said it so many times now – when Cashman wanted the money for Lee he was authorized to spend it.

    Then when he didn’t spend it, the Hal and Randy spent the difference on Soriano, blocking future moves that could improve the team. Bad business.
    ===========

    That’s the thing that makes me wonder. In light of the hard line that the Yanks are taking on additional acquisitions this year, why did Hal sign Soriano last year? Everything that has happened with player salaries for the Yankees over the last 12 months has been largely foreseeable. Is this austerity a consequence of the CBA? Is Cashman pushing the austerity or is Hal? Is there something else going on that we can’t see?

  861. Abomb82 December 27th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    If the Yanks were going to be that stingy on this luxury tax issue – they shouldn’t have given an overused, mid-30s LOOGY $8 million, given Marte $12 million rather than just pick up his 1 yr option, signed Soriano, Burnett, A-Rod for $300 million, etc.

    Their thoughts and actions do not match. It’s actually a bizzaro world – they stick to their principals for guys they they could use but don’t really HAVE to have, yet they deviate away from their principals to sign guys they need EVEN LESS.

  862. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Why did some people piss and moan about what NYYs paid Jeter?

    ——-

    Because he got a multi year contract and the amount of money he makes blocks other moves, like KURODA.

    Stupid comparison.

  863. Jerzz December 27th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    “Why did some people piss and moan about what NYYs paid Jeter?”

    Because every dollar extra they gave him is proving to be a dollar less available for someone they could use.

  864. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Yankees offered Lee somewhere around $26 mil/year gave Soriano $11 mil – even crummy math suggests the Yankees would still have at least $15 mil to spend if they so desired.

    They also signed Garcia and Marte, getting closer to Lee’s salary :) Lee was offered 7 years 150 Not 26 mil.

  865. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    It’s the same thing. NYYs don’t need Kuroda. Will you hold your breath until Kuroda is a Yankee?

  866. luis December 27th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Hi JAP!,

    So good to see you around!, i had a hectic christmass, but a very good one thanks!, i hope that you and your loved ones had an amazing christmass and hopefully a very happy New Year.

  867. RayVT December 27th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    The Yanks do have a lot of depth for 2012 w/o anymore additions. I’d like to see Chavez & A Jones back though.

    SP1………52 CC Sabathia……..Manny Banuelos
    SP2………34 A.J. Burnett……..68 Dellin Betances
    SP3………65 Phil Hughes………Adam P Warren
    SP4………47 Ivan Nova
    SP5………36 Freddy Garcia
    SP6………64 Hector Noesi
    SP7………D.J. Mitchell
    SP8………David Phelps

    CL……….42 Mariano Rivera
    SU……….30 David Robertson
    LH……….48 Boone Logan…….Cesar Cabral
    RP1………29 Rafael Soriano…..70 George Kontos
    RP2………62 Joba Chamberlain..Brad Meyers
    RP3………53 Cory Wade……….Kevin Whelan, Eric Wordekemper, Graham Stoneburner, Ryan Pope

    DH……….83 Jesus Montero
    C…………55 Russell Martin……29 Francisco Cervelli, 71 Austin Romine, Gary Sanchez, Kyle Higashioka, J.R Murphy
    1B………..25 Mark Teixeira…….Jorge Vasquez
    2B………..24 Robinson Cano…..David Adams, Corban Joseph
    SS…………2 Derek Jeter………..19 Ramiro Pena
    3B………..13 Alex Rodriguez
    LF………..11 Brett Gardner
    CF……….14 Curtis Granderson
    RF……….33 Nick Swisher
    inf……….26 Eduardo Nunez
    inf/of……60 Brandon Laird
    of………..27 Chris Dickerson…..Mason Williams, Slade Heathcott, Angelo Gumbs, 77 Melky Mesa
    of………..63 Justin Maxwell……Zoilo Almonte

  868. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Jerzz December 27th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
    “Why did some people piss and moan about what NYYs paid Jeter?”

    Because every dollar extra they gave him is proving to be a dollar less available for someone they could use.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    BS. If Cashman/ Steinbrenners thought Kuroda was worth whatever the cost is that he’s asking or was needed, they’d be looking for a uniform number right now.

  869. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    It’s the same thing

    ——–

    No, it’s not even close to the same thing.

    A similar example would have been the Yankees offering Jeter arb and convincing him to accept.

  870. Red Robin December 27th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    GRRRRROOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR

  871. yanks 27 December 27th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    The premise is that Kuroda is only a “marginal upgrade”.

    If he replaces Burnett or Hughes, he could be a significant upgrade. In Burnett’s case, you could be talking 1.5-2 runs lower in ERA.

    (and please don’t mention if you remove X team and Y team and these 3 starts and those 2 games and this stretch, the numbers would be better) Neither guy can be counted on.

  872. blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    Josh Norris’s take on Betances.

    Overall impression: I’m not the biggest Betances fan in the world. I think he’s got really good stuff, but he’s got to learn to harness it. I think he’s going to end up as a bullpen guy.

    On injury problems: Here’s a guy that, as a starter, if you trade for him that way and believe that’s what he’s going to be, you’re taking a guy who’s been out a lot and spent time on the disabled list every year. It’s kind of like taking the running back that’s missed time four years in college, that’s probably not going to change. … To me, with durability and just the way his stuff plays, he’s going to be a bullpen guy.

    Background: Big strong kid, he’s a great kid, he’s grown up, he’s got aptitude. There’s a lot of good things.

    Troubles with repeating delivery: I don’t think he’s the greatest athlete in the world, not that he’s terrible, but I’m not sure he’s the greatest athlete in the world. If you hope a guy’s going to log 200 innings, you’ve got to repeat that delivery for a long, long time. That’s not always easy.

    Miscellany: I think that’s what he gets in trouble with sometimes, is throwing that breaking ball for strikes. His fastball doesn’t have a ton of life, it can straighten out a little bit.

  873. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    I still don’t understand. Are you saying that the players should pay this tax?

    No I’m saying when the Yankees consider the money spent on Kuroda, the luxury tax hit should be spread across all their idiot contracts. Not as a marginal increase in cost of Kuroda himself. They are paying a penalty for all of their contracts. I understand that signing Kuroda or anyone is what triggers the additional increase but its their stupid contracts that got them in this mess. Write them off, eat the 5 mil.
    ===============

    Okay, now, I understand where you’re coming from. It seems to me that you are largely talking semantics. These contracts can’t be “written off”. These contracts have to be paid, one way or the other. The economics of this decision are fairly immutable, regardless of how you might want to think about the how the incremental hit to the salary cap ought to be distributed.

    Decisionmaking happens at the margin. If you eat six identical hot dogs, and the seventh one that you eat makes you ill, then obviously, it is the total accumulation of hot dogs is what made you ill. However, it is the last one that put you over the top, so to speak. In other words, in some sense, Kuroda could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back.

  874. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    josh Norris on Manny Banuelos

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo…..manny.html
    ///

    Good read, but he might mention that the kid was trying to adapt the greater velocity he experienced. I saw a start in Trenton where Manny’s CB was untouchable. Probably the same game. His command was a little off but that curve just froze the hitters and bailed him out, just dove at the last second. Manny’s a work in progress, and he’s got to be allowed that.

  875. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Pabe: “Oh, I also wrote on Yu Darvish and Yoenis Cespedes on my Hall of Fame ballot just to save time in 2032″ :)

  876. luis December 27th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Blake,

    Yes, i think Norris said that in his blog. But Josh Towers compared him to King Felix. That’s the problem with potential, you never now if he is going to live up to it. But in this special case and given the current types of pitchers available either through trade or FA, i think the Yankees should wait and see how he performs this coming season, especially with the 2012 FA class having Hamels and Cain.

  877. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Decisionmaking happens at the margin. If you eat six identical hot dogs, and the seventh one that you eat makes you ill, then obviously, it is the total accumulation of hot dogs is what made you ill. However, it is the last one that put you over the top, so to speak. In other words, in some sense, Kuroda could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back.

    In this example Randy Levine shoves a chili dog in your mouth.

  878. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Decisionmaking happens at the margin. If you eat six identical hot dogs, and the seventh one that you eat makes you ill, then obviously, it is the total accumulation of hot dogs is what made you ill. However, it is the last one that put you over the top, so to speak. In other words, in some sense, Kuroda could be the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back.

    In this example Randy Levine shoves a chili dog in your mouth.
    ———

    ?

  879. Jerzz December 27th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    BS. If Cashman/ Steinbrenners thought Kuroda was worth whatever the cost is that he’s asking or was needed, they’d be looking for a uniform number right now.

    ———–

    Then isn’t that more troubling that Cashman is satisfied enough with the rotation that he isn’t even willing to give a 1 yr deal to a guy who could perhaps be our 2nd best pitcher? On what basis is he (and the rest of the FO) satisfied with what he has?

    And what explains the multiple times he said “pitching pitching pitching” is his #1 priority this winter and the “keys to the kingdom”? Something doesn’t add up somewhere.

  880. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    lets face it, the yankees intend to get under the luxury tax threshold next season, so do the red socks. that may change if things don’t go well this season, but for this offseason, they are sticking with the plan.

  881. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Jerzz December 27th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    BS. If Cashman/ Steinbrenners thought Kuroda was worth whatever the cost is that he’s asking or was needed, they’d be looking for a uniform number right now.

    ———–

    Then isn’t that more troubling that Cashman is satisfied enough with the rotation that he isn’t even willing to give a 1 yr deal to a guy who could perhaps be our 2nd best pitcher? On what basis is he (and the rest of the FO) satisfied with what he has?

    And what explains the multiple times he said “pitching pitching pitching” is his #1 priority this winter and the “keys to the kingdom”? Something doesn’t add up somewhere.
    ===========

    The thing that doesn’t add up is that you are assuming that something being a number-1 priority means that other constraints are unimportant or negligible. Clearly, Cashman doesn’t shar that assessment.

  882. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    lets face it, the yankees intend to get under the luxury tax threshold next season, so do the red socks. that may change if things don’t go well this season, but for this offseason, they are sticking with the plan.

    A 1 year deal doesnt affect this. Lets worry about getting under the 189 threshold next offseason and the 1 after. (They said by 2014)

  883. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
    Josh Norris’s take on Betances.

    Overall impression: I’m not the biggest Betances fan in the world. I think he’s got really good stuff, but he’s got to learn to harness it. I think he’s going to end up as a bullpen guy.

    On injury problems: Here’s a guy that, as a starter, if you trade for him that way and believe that’s what he’s going to be, you’re taking a guy who’s been out a lot and spent time on the disabled list every year. It’s kind of like taking the running back that’s missed time four years in college, that’s probably not going to change. … To me, with durability and just the way his stuff plays, he’s going to be a bullpen guy.

    Background: Big strong kid, he’s a great kid, he’s grown up, he’s got aptitude. There’s a lot of good things.

    Troubles with repeating delivery: I don’t think he’s the greatest athlete in the world, not that he’s terrible, but I’m not sure he’s the greatest athlete in the world. If you hope a guy’s going to log 200 innings, you’ve got to repeat that delivery for a long, long time. That’s not always easy.

    Miscellany: I think that’s what he gets in trouble with sometimes, is throwing that breaking ball for strikes. His fastball doesn’t have a ton of life, it can straighten out a little bit.
    ////

    Interesting, he says he’s got “really good stuff” and then says his fb is flat. I think he’s confusing Betances with Red Sox prospect Ranaudo. LOL. Betances has a rising fb that is just explosive. His cut fastball & two-seamer both have great movement & get the most feeble of contact. I see there’s no mention of his changeup. Part of his “problem” is his movement, for even when he’s “on” with command, he gets a lot of balls called, because his stuff doesn’t stay in the zone for long. Not sure what the guy is talking about, generally. Here’s a guy who has great 2-seam movement on a couple pitches, a curve that dies an unexpected death, and a fastball that winds up above the letters, and he’s talking about some “flat” fb. Hmm…if he’s throwing such a flat fastball, why aren’t any hitters getting the ball in the air off him?

    As for him being a so-so athlete, that’s way overstated. For his size, he’s surprisingly deft coming in and fielding dribblers off the grass. He also gotten better at throwing to first and second, which was more due to size, rather than poor athletic ability. I’d say Betances is actually a good athlete, he’s just big, and apparently has some fooled he’s not very athletic.

    His only trouble with the curve is occasionally not finishing it, leaving it up. As for not throwing it for strikes, he commands it well enough that they bite on it; it’s a devastating pitch, to cite it here as anything other than a tremendous weapon doesn’t speak well for this “scout” IMO. Generally, this is report is full of it.

  884. Gary December 27th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
    Jerzz December 27th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    BS. If Cashman/ Steinbrenners thought Kuroda was worth whatever the cost is that he’s asking or was needed, they’d be looking for a uniform number right now.

    ———–

    Then isn’t that more troubling that Cashman is satisfied enough with the rotation that he isn’t even willing to give a 1 yr deal to a guy who could perhaps be our 2nd best pitcher? On what basis is he (and the rest of the FO) satisfied with what he has?

    And what explains the multiple times he said “pitching pitching pitching” is his #1 priority this winter and the “keys to the kingdom”? Something doesn’t add up somewhere.
    ===========

    The thing that doesn’t add up is that you are assuming that something being a number-1 priority means that other constraints are unimportant or negligible. Clearly, Cashman doesn’t shar that assessment.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Cash has sold manangment on his current strategy. They are going along with it, if it works he will look like the old master. If it’s another early out then I think he’s got some pretty unhappy people in his face and the strategy goes in a different direction. Time will tell, hopefully he’s right.

  885. blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Luis,

    Hi. True…..and Towers is a smart dude……however with prospects its much more.likely that Norris’s assessment comes to pass than he becoming Felix Hernandez…..it just is.

  886. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    J. Alfred -

    I just discounted that scout’s report on Betances. ;)

  887. blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    JAP,

    Obviously the most concerning thing is whether he will ever become proficient at repeating his delivery and that’s hard to project especially for a guy that size……..that’ll decide his ceiling.

  888. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

    lol, about quoting that scouting report. Guy clearly knows nothing about Betances’s fastball. You have to wonder where Norris got that report. Sickels’s scouting report is far more accurate on the fb:

    “Betances has intimidating size and the velocity to match, working between 92 and 98 MPH and consistently hitting 94-95. He maintains his velocity through games and the fastball has excellent sinking action, which shows up statistically in low home run rates throughout his career. He mixes in a cutter, but his key secondary pitch is a knee-buckling knuckle-curveball, a true plus pitch although his command of it is not always consistent.”

    You can question Betances’s command at times, but definitely not the liveliness of that fb.

    http://tampabay.sbnation.com/t.....a-bay-rays

  889. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    luis December 27th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Hi JAP!,

    So good to see you around!, i had a hectic christmass, but a very good one thanks!, i hope that you and your loved ones had an amazing christmass and hopefully a very happy New Year.
    ///

    Luis, did you spend it in Venezuela? We had a very joyful Christmas, thank you. We actually hosted it this year, and because the grad students we have renting a couple of rooms in our house go home for the holidays, we had relatives and friends stay at the house, which felt like we were in some European film, LOL. Hope you’re sticking around, my friend. The place needs your light. :D

  890. blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    “lol, about quoting that scouting report.”

    Its out there so I posted it…..we loved him whenever he said nice things about Banuelos and the other guys. I hope he’s wrong about Betances for the record…..its just too soon to tell

  891. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
    Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

    ///

    Yankeefem, same to you!!! Ready to make the vagabond tour, so we can keep the “scouts” honest? ;).

  892. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    The 2013 luxury tax threshold is 178M.

    No shot they get under that.

  893. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    “Cashman has been trying to get Kuroda for two years, as recently as 6 months ago, but suddenly he doesn’t want him?”

    Link? I said I have been out of the loop but I don’t remember reading that Cashman had been jonesing for Kuroda. Not to say that he hasn’t, but just that I did not know that. Where did you hear it?

    Problem with someone wanting a player for several years, especially when it’s an older player. (see Johnson, Randy)

  894. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Man I really want Xander Bogarts

  895. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Its out there so I posted it…..we loved him whenever he said nice things about Banuelos and the other guys. I hope he’s wrong about Betances for the record…..its just too soon to tell
    ///

    Yeah, this guy’s full of it. He’s not just wrong, he’s woefully clueless. This kid may have “Ubaldo” like issues, but he’s not going to be any bullpen arm. Not even the Yankees, with their Joba history, would waste this guy in the bullpen. And for me – that’s saying a great deal.

  896. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    I was happy with the Soriano signing. Still am.

  897. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Josh Norris’ report on Abraham Almonte

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....raham.html

  898. Ys Guy December 27th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    has anybody considered the possiblility that hal and the higher ups told cashman that he cant go over a certain payroll # no matter what and that’s what is holding them back from the darvishes and kurodas of the world. cashman is a good soldier, he would keep that to himself and just say he’s not interested in what’s out there…

  899. blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    JAP,

    Hopefully that’ll be the case…..

  900. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Hi luis!!! Hi Yfem!!! Hi J AL!!! And you too Ghost!!!

    :)

    Nothing like positive voices to drown out the complainers.

    *****************

    Ray, very nice chart!!!

  901. luis December 27th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    JAP,

    Very good post. I haven’t seen him pitch, but what you describe is just incredible, and the reason they should wait and see what happens this year.

    Blake,

    Hi as well ;). The thing is that i think the Yankees can afford to wait what they have on him. Could you imagine if he becomes a front end starter?, would you trade that and other prospects for a number two SP?. I wouldn’t, but i do understand your point.

  902. Jacques Strappe December 27th, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    As I understand it … if the Yanks can get under the luxury tax threshold then the first year they go over again after their no tax year, their luxury tax rate is back to only about 17 or 18% again. That’s for the first year they go over again, then of course it goes up again if they continue to go over.

  903. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    The early out in the 2011 post season had nothing to do with pitching, unless you were expecting 3 straight shutouts by yankee pitching. It was a failure of the offense in certain spots that knocked them out.

  904. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Cashman has been damned when he did, damned when he didn’t. He was highly criticized when the Yankees were spending very high and got trashed all over the country for it, especially by the NY papers! The next season he kept the spending down to the extent that the Yankees lost out in the Matsuzaka sweepstake (who knew that would be a very good thing!) and was highly criticized for it.

    You know what I say? Everyone who is unhappy can kiss Brian Cashman’s sweet butt!!! The guy does the best he can with what he has. And as someone pointed out, the Boss is no longer here and it may be a new wave with the way things are going to be run. It appears we still have generous owners but they might now be willing to mortgage the farm in order to have smiling fans.

    Good for them.

  905. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
    J. Alfred -

    I just discounted that scout’s report on Betances.
    ///

    Villa, you and I have seen Betances, we know that’s hot air. I’d bet my house that Betances does not end up “a bullpen guy.” Now, if he blows out his shoulder or something, all bets are off. But if this kid stays healthy? With his struggles with command, he’ll still be a starter. He’s just too talented and has an imposing five-pitch repertoire. How can a scout imply his CB is some detriment?? Even if you think he’ll always struggle with command, what kind of crock is that? And “his fastball is flat..” ??? Disqualified, on that alone.

  906. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Piliere on Dellin fb:

    “Fastball

    Here’s where Betances is going to make his living. The owner of a true plus fastball, the big righty separates himself from other young pitchers with good arms with his use and confidence in his fastball. As stated above, considering his limited experience, Betances has a true presence on the mound and quietly seems to believe no one can touch his best fastball. However, that does not mean he is reckless in the zone. Sitting consistently at 94-95 mph, Betances routinely bumped 96-97 mph up in the zone.

    Betances already shows an advanced idea of how to use that explosive fastball as an out pitch up in the zone. You rarely see minor league pitchers do this with any real intent.
    And the key words here are up in the zone. Betances already shows an advanced idea of how to use that explosive fastball as an out pitch up in the zone. You rarely see minor league pitchers do this with any real intent. But on a consistent basis, he was willing to start hitters with off-speed pitches to get ahead and then finish up in the zone at 95-96 mph.

    Still, although his fastball command is solid, it’s not pinpoint. That’s a lot to ask at this stage in his career. It will continue to develop, and he’s already very aggressive in the zone right now with average command. Given his well-above-average velocity, that should do the trick just fine. The attack mentality, confidence that his fastball can and will miss bats, ability to make hitters commit to it in the upper quadrants and above, and plus life will make him quite a presence with the fastball alone at the next level.”

    http://www.aolnews.com/2010/08.....-betances/

  907. Pat M. December 27th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    I like Kuroda, I firmly believe he makes the club better….However I wonder if they’ll enjoy swallowing a dark October should that occur because of a 5 million dollar fee…..When the old Stadium was dark in 2008 it was suggested that losing those gates and Yes pre & post game dollars was in excess of 15-18 million Yankee dollars….Now you have a much larger dollar amount with the new joint…….It was mentioned last week in a conversation before Christmas that the Kuroda / Yankee talks were about a 2nd year player option…..

  908. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    “The early out in the 2011 post season had nothing to do with pitching, unless you were expecting 3 straight shutouts by yankee pitching. It was a failure of the offense in certain spots that knocked them out”

    B
    I
    N
    G
    O

    Let’s not forget the deletrious effects of the flippin’ rainout and the umpiring of Gerry Davis. Yankee pitching did not torpedo the Yankees.

    And for those of you with very short or convenient memories, you can read about it here:

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....abath.html

  909. m1kew December 27th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Since LoHud seems unable to offer a new thread and since there is a lot of talk here about various starting pitcher options for the Yankees I have copied and pasted a post from Joe Pawlikowski at RAB:

    “Once again, Beltran came to the Yankees at the last minute
    By Mike Axisa
    Seven years ago, Carlos Beltran and Scott Boras famously came to the Yankees during the final minutes of the outfielder’s free agency, offering to join the team at the discount rather than sign elsewhere. The Yankees said no thanks, and off went Beltran to the Mets for seven years and $119M. Jon Heyman says Beltran (no longer a Boras client) did the same thing this year, offering himself to the Yankees at the last minute for the same two years and $26M he got from the Cardinals. The Yankees again declined, and now he’s in St. Louis.

    I still think that passing on Beltran before the 2005 season was one of the biggest mistakes the Yankees have made under Brian Cashman, though in hindsight you can say they dodged a bullet given all his injuries in recent years. This time around it’s a different story, because he is older with bad knees and the Yankees don’t need the offense or an outfielder. It’s pretty clear that Beltran wants to wear pinstripes though, it just doesn’t look like he’ll ever get the chance. · (8) ·

    Dec
    27Why not pursue Hiroki Kuroda?
    By Joe Pawlikowski in Hot Stove League. Tags: Hiroki Kuroda · Comments (102) · .For a while we’ve waited for the Yankees to make a move. They’ve made a couple, sure, and one was quite the splash. But none of the moves really changed the outlook for 2012. Since Brian Cashman probably didn’t mean “Freddy Garcia, Freddy Garcia, Freddy Garcia,” when he declared the team’s needs for the off-season, we continue to wait. Yet with each passing day it seems less and less likely that the Yankees make a move for a starting pitcher.

    Those chances seemed even slimmer yesterday, when ESPN New York reported that the Yankees won’t bid on Hiroki Kuroda. This follows a period when the Yankees denied a connection with Kuroda. While by every indication they do like Kuroda, he just doesn’t appear to fit into their budget. That has, in some ways understandable, inflamed the ire of Yankees fans.

    The issue isn’t necessarily with the $12 million base salary Kuroda seeks. In fact, for a one-year deal that’s a more than reasonable rate. The issue is the additional cost they bear. Since they’re over the luxury tax, each additional contract they sign actually costs them 40 percent extra. That turns Kuroda’s $12 million into $16.8 million in total expenditures. It’s an unfortunate situation, but it’s one the Yankees currently face.

    It’s still likely, though, that the Yankees could, if they were so inclined fit Kuroda into the budget. They can definitely use another starter, and Kuroda has a very fine four-year MLB track record. Brian Cashman has said in the past — even as recently as this November — that he can takes cases for payroll increases to Hal Steinbrenner for approval. If Cashman can make a compelling case, Hal would make an exception. Yet can Cashman really make a compelling case for Kuroda?

    Cashman might like Kuroda. Billy Eppler might like Kuroda. Even Hal himself might like Kuroda. But that doesn’t mean he warrants making a payroll exception. Exceptions come for pitchers like Cliff Lee, who don’t hit the market open. The Yankees were willing to make an exception for him last year, though it didn’t work out. Can Cashman really justify making a similar case for Kuroda?

    Let’s just say that Cashman can and does make a compelling case for Kuroda, and Hal makes the payroll exception. That pretty much ties the Yankees’s hands financially. It might seem as though they have unlimited funds, but they clearly do not. Hal has said no before — see the proposed Mike Cameron trade from July, 2009 — and he’ll likely say no after bringing in Kuroda. That means Justin Maxwell as the righty outfielder off the bench. That means no other fringe improvements. Most importantly, it means no in-season improvements.

    That is to say, the idea behind not pursuing Kuroda could be with an aim to stay as flexible as possible going forward. The Yankees do have five starters, and they do have a rotation full of worthy kids in AAA. There’s a case to be made, especially from those who want the kids to get a shot, that holding onto that money is good in two ways. It means that the kids will get a shot to prove themselves earlier in the year, and it means that the Yankees can afford to make in-season improvements if available and necessary.

    Think about it this way, too. The Yankees have a ton of money already tied up in the 2013 payroll. Not only do they have the $127 million listed on their Cot’s page, but they have an additional $26 million for Cano and Granderson, plus three third-year arbitration players, plus holes at a few positions. And while a few pitchers from the free agent class have been locked up, the Yankees still might want to have some funds earmarked for them. Doesn’t it make some sense to show restraint with Kuroda if it means making an exception for a superior pitcher who will be around for longer?

    It’s certainly frustrating to see the Yankees turn down short-term options due to financial constraints. They are, after all, a veritable money making machine. But even the Yankees have their limits. Apparently they have reached them, or are at least approaching them. Being prudent might hurt right now, but for all we know it could be part of something bigger. At the very least, it could help keep opportunities open that wouldn’t be otherwise.”

    This all seems to make sense and also seems to make most of the conversation here moot. I look at this post as a voice of reason and a fair depiction of what the Yankkes (Cashman) has to keep in mind that we,. as fans, choose not to overlook.

  910. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    Hi Trisha,

    Hope you had a Merry Christmas. Had a quick peek at your cookies before I left the computer behind for the holiday. They looked fantastic.

  911. luis December 27th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Hi Trish!!, Hi Yankefem!! merry christmas to both of you and a very happy New Year!!

    JAP!!,

    LOL!!, yes i am in Venezuela right now, but i am going to New York to spend New Year’s eve and get disconnected from work for a little while!. By the way, i’m planning to return to New York by May to go NYS, maybe we can finally meet!

  912. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
    JAP,

    Obviously the most concerning thing is whether he will ever become proficient at repeating his delivery and that’s hard to project especially for a guy that size……..that’ll decide his ceiling.
    ///

    Blake, this is right. If he wants to reach his ceiling, which soars like some Gothic cathedral, he’ll have to repeat better. But he did so in 2010, and as I’ve said here many times, he is good at straightening himself out and leaving poor command stranded in one unfortunate inning. His self-correcting is just not ever mentioned, but he has this intuition & he responds well to “mound visits”. Like I said, even if he struggles, he’ll be a dynamic, albeit maybe not the most efficient starter in the world. I think, given his overall package, and his determination to succeed and adapt, he’ll slay the dragon and approach that ceiling, if not reach it. Stay tuned…:D

  913. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Pat M -

    I am not sold on Kuroda and I don’t think he adds anything certain to the team except for more payroll.

    I bold that only to point out that not everyone wants Kuroda added to the team and it doesn’t have to have anything to do with money.

    At 37 years old, with a losing record for the Dodgers and his career spent in the NL, Kuroda to me would be a HUGE wild card and one not necessary to pick up.

    I would rather see the Yankees bring back Bartolo Colon and put him in the bullpen for spot starts than to bring on an NL player with a losing record.

    JMO but definitely MO.

  914. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Seems like that as bad as Boston, Marlins and Toronto say they need pitching that they haven’t snapped up Kuroda. That’s what isn’t jiving. Is he overvaluing himself? Is he not thought to be as good by baseball people as some on here seem to think he is?

  915. Eroc December 27th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Pat – and with the new WC rules, if you don’t win the division, you are pretty much screwed. So a win or 2 here and there can be the difference between winning the division and setting up the rotation or playing a bunch of games in a row and having to use all 5 of your starters.

    Cash is really overestimating his rotation here, IMO. And he isn’t going to have the deadline this year to bail him out. As it stood prior to this year, teams were delusional thinking they were contenders, now, teams are pretty much going to have to be 15+ games out of a playoff spot to consider selling – and with the 2nd WC, not many teams will be.

  916. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    YFem, thank you! Hopefully my baking skills help to make up for the fact that I am an atrocious cook! I plan to send Christmas cookies out next year to my favorite lohudites, so make plans to be on that list.

    :)

  917. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Luis, Feliz Navidad y Feliz Ano Nuevo!

  918. Patrick December 27th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Prince Fielder hasn’t signed yet, does that mean “baseball people” don’t think he’s good?

    Some free agents just sign late in the offseason, it happens every year. The fact of the matter is, Kuroda would be the second best starting pitcher on the Yankees. Cashman has tried to get him for 2 years now, there is no reason to believe he isn’t still trying to get him.

  919. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    JAP!!,

    LOL!!, yes i am in Venezuela right now, but i am going to New York to spend New Year’s eve and get disconnected from work for a little while!. By the way, i’m planning to return to New York by May to go NYS, maybe we can finally meet!
    ///

    Luis, it’s settled, you’ll be my guest at Yankee Stadium. Maybe we can convince Yankeefem and Trisha to join us ;).

  920. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Thanks, Trisha. :D

  921. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    Patrick, I agree that we are likely still in on Kuroda. Let’s stay out of the mix in stealth mode for now and not escalate the price.

  922. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
    YFem, thank you! Hopefully my baking skills help to make up for the fact that I am an atrocious cook! I plan to send Christmas cookies out next year to my favorite lohudites, so make plans to be on that list.
    ///

    Trisha, those cookies looked like they came out of a Gourmet magazine. I skimmed the blog but made sure to click on your jpeg. Very impressive!

  923. luis December 27th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
    Luis, Feliz Navidad y Feliz Ano Nuevo!

    ========

    :) para ti tambien!!

  924. Yanks78 December 27th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    They can get under $178 by 2014.

    Rivera – $15 million, replaced by Robertson
    Swisher – $12 million, replaced by Mason Williams or trade for a young OF
    Burnett – $16.5 million, replaced by Banuelos/Betances/Jose Ramirez
    Jeter – $18 million, depends what happens with his option, but maybe he will retire
    Soriano – $15 million, replaced internally

    Grandy will be 32 when he is a FA – perhaps his salary will be off the books as well.

    If Hamels signs his extension, there is nothing worth it the next couple of FA classes to add $$ to the payroll. No young budding position player (Kemp, Tulo, CarGo, etc.) or under 30 aces (Hamels, CC, etc.).

  925. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    GB, no question that Kuroda has had some very fine outings for the Dodgers but I noticed more inconsistency in the last season than in the previous seasons. He’s not getting any younger and he had the benefit of pitching in the weakest-ass division in the majors, in the NL to boot.

    All of his numbers are declining (actually rising, but declining for a pitcher) as I guess can be expected of a pitcher at that age. BAA, OBP, SLG, OPS. And his winning percentage continues to decline. This is pitching in a weak division in the NL. I don’t know what he is going to do for the Yankees that Colon cannot. At least Colon is battle tested. Look at the adjustment period for Clemens his first year with the Yanks. This is someone who spent his career in the AL, the AL East to boot!

  926. luis December 27th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Guys,

    Have to go, have guests in my house. It’s been great to share this moment with you guys. Have a good night everyone.

    JAP,

    I would love that! ;) good night my friend

  927. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    Pruf, that scout was probably the same dude who was sitting there complaining about Manny B’s command and that his changeup wasn’t a plus pitch. :roll:

  928. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    luis, have a good night, amigo! :)

  929. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    If the Yankees pick up Kuroda it will be a desperation move IMO. But I will root my brains out for the guy and hope it all works out. As soon as the pinstripes are on, I’m there 100%. I was against Vazquez but trusted the Yankees knew what they were doing and when he came back, he became my guy. I did not spend the season saying “I told you we shouldn’t have signed him” and I wouldn’t do it with Kuroda either. My respect for the organization is that I trust their moves and trust they are doing things playing the percentages properly.

    I just don’t have the same amount of trust in what the lohud managers clamor for. No offense intended of course.

    ***************

    J Al – I’ve been doing Christmas baking for quite a few years so hopefully have perfected it as much as possible at this point. It is something I truly enjoy (and you have been added to my cookie list of course).

    I sing (was in a chorus in past years), play the piano, bake and write poetry. Those are my creative skills. Those things are TOTALLY washed out by my horrific cooking! It is amazing that any one person could cook so poorly. Truth. And that is why Taco Bell remains my chef!!!

    :)

  930. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Not saying that Kuroda might no help some with NYYs, but, is he going to be $17 mil better? NYYs aren’t eating Burnett’s contrach or even 2/3rds of it and dump him for nothing. If the kids/back-ups for the rotation fails, that’s on Cashman and his player evaluation staff.

    If a few of them show that they are actually talented, it will increase their value to make it easier to trade if they need or want to. Nobody was giving much up for Nova last year, but, everyone wanted him included as a throw-in. In 2011, you saw why. If somebody wants Nova now, they’d better cough up something of real value.

  931. blake December 27th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    YF, hope you’re well. Here is what the same guy says about Manny.

    Overall impression: He’s a no-brainer in my opinion. I think he’s got a chance to be pretty good, real good. I think he’s the real deal. He’s got a great fastball, and I think his breaking ball’s going to be fine.

    I think his secondary stuff is going to be fine. He’s going to have a good change-up. I liked his breaking ball. He just needs a little bit of experience and to get a little bit stronger, durability-wise.

    I think he’s got starter-type stuff. He’s still learning to throw quality strikes and learning to expand the strike zone when he has to — that kind of stuff.

    What caused command issues: I don’t think it was necessarily (his delivery). Sometimes I think he needed to trust his stuff a little bit. He tries to be too fine, nibble at times, where sometimes you’ve just got to trust your stuff and just go out there and do it.

  932. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Betances already shows an advanced idea of how to use that explosive fastball as an out pitch up in the zone. You rarely see minor league pitchers do this with any real intent.
    And the key words here are up in the zone. Betances already shows an advanced idea of how to use that explosive fastball as an out pitch up in the zone. You rarely see minor league pitchers do this with any real intent. But on a consistent basis, he was willing to start hitters with off-speed pitches to get ahead and then finish up in the zone at 95-96 mph.
    ///

    Yankeefem, this is the Betances I know. Kid will pitch backwards, especially against LHB, and finish them with the FB where they can’t reach it. Change of eye level, in velo, downward plane and then busting them upstairs, this is the pitcher he has been and can be for the Yankees. Who’s trading that? I hope not Cashman.

  933. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    luis December 27th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
    Guys,

    Have to go, have guests in my house. It’s been great to share this moment with you guys. Have a good night everyone.

    JAP,

    I would love that! good night my friend
    ///

    Book it! :D

  934. blake December 27th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Pretty much what I’ve seen whenever I’ve watched Banuelos…..his delivery is good and he repeats it……he just needs to be more aggressive in the zone and challenge more ……he tends to be too fine at times. Part of learning……

    Again….I don’t take anything scouts online say for gospel……I hope Betances does hit that ceiling.

  935. champ809 December 27th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    Just a heads up

    That wasn’t Josh Norris’ opinion on Bettances and Banuelos. It was a scout for another team who had been assigned the Yanks and was speaking to Josh about a # of our kids that he had seen throughout the season.

    The writeup on Abe Almonte however was Josh’s coverage.

    J. Al

    While I agree that I wouldn’t want to trade Bettances future for Garza’s now Ca$h would make that trade everyday and twice on sundays and honestly it would be THE responsible thing to do for this current team.

    Players like Jeter, Mo, ARod and to some extent Tex and CC who are the current core of the team have a very limited realistic window to win more rings…1-4 yrs realistically speaking.

    Garza gives Mo for instance a much better chance of adding a 6th ring to his collection THIS season which is most probably his last. He most probably gives Jeter a much better chance to win 2 more in the next 3 and most likely final years on a legendary Yankee career.

    So while it would hurt and I’d hate it I’d totally understand and in fact support that trade were it say available tomorrow. It would again be a responsible use of the org’s assets and respectful to the great players like Mo and Jeet who’ve earned the right to compete for current championships now.

    My sense of loss would be mitigated by the signing of Cespedes and Soler and the eventual trading of Swishie.

  936. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:12 pm
    Pruf, that scout was probably the same dude who was sitting there complaining about Manny B’s command and that his changeup wasn’t a plus pitch.
    ///

    LOL, some of those guys need a new rodeo.

  937. blake December 27th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    “That wasn’t Josh Norris’ opinion on Bettances and Banuelos. ”

    My bad….I thought it was.

  938. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Blake, Merry Christmas!

    The scout sounds like he hasn’t seen Manny pitch much either. Really going out on a limb there referring to Manny’s changeup as potentially “good” and that he’ll likely have starter’s stuff.

    Agree Betances’s command has to improve though.

  939. blake December 27th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    Champ,

    Agree

  940. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Well, FTR, Theo would want more than Betances for Garza; he’d want a haul even if Garza has only two more years of arb left. Rays got Archer plus a haul.

  941. blake December 27th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    YF,

    I would guess he means it’ll be a good big league pitch…..I think that assessment is pretty dead on personally from what I’ve seen.

  942. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    J. Al

    While I agree that I wouldn’t want to trade Bettances future for Garza’s now Ca$h would make that trade everyday and twice on sundays and honestly it would be THE responsible thing to do for this current team.

    Players like Jeter, Mo, ARod and to some extent Tex and CC who are the current core of the team have a very limited realistic window to win more rings…1-4 yrs realistically speaking.
    ////

    Champ, the “let’s pull one more out for the Core” played well in 2009, but that should not determine moves, especially if there is a sacrificial lamb who throws 98 mph and has a murderously good secondary repertoire and can contribute to a whole new dynasty. Garza is just not worth that kind of upside, especially as that arm is getting so very close to the majors. If my choice is Garza and no Betances but I can have say, Kuroda for a bridge that leads to Betances, that’s the road I’m takin’. Now, if you can get me that lefthander from the Dodgers, that’s a whole different ballgame….;)

  943. blake December 27th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Garza was under control for 3 years when the Rays dealt him though…..not 2. Theo will demand a lot still but as I’ve said the market price should be south if the Latos and Gonzalez deals……how far south I don’t know.

  944. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    blake, I think he underrates Manny’s changeup by that remark.

    I am a big fan of Garza’s and have watched him pitch for quite a few years. Love that he is throwing more breaking stuff; he overused his fastball as a Ray, but was integrating more breaking stuff in the latter part of last year. I think he is becoming a more complete pitcher, and his peripherals show that. However, I would rather sign Kuroda than trade top prospects for Garza.

  945. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Champ, FTR, I really would like to see us pull the trigger on BOTH the Cuban kids.

  946. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    LOL, if we were to trade Betances in a deal for Garza, I could just see it when he takes off…somehow, it’ll be spun as “Theo’s genius in helping Betances realize his great ceiling, which the Yankees couldn’t help him harness and threw in the towel on…”

    Except, I wouldn’t be laughing out loud.

    I wouldn’t be laughing. At all.

  947. blake December 27th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    “However, I would rather sign Kuroda than trade top prospects for Garza.”

    I can’t argue there……but the Yanks are too poor to sign Kuroda

  948. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    blake, not far enough south, if you ask me. Not far enough, at all.

  949. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    blake, we shall see how poor or rich we are when the smoke clears. ;)

  950. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    *That is latter part of his last year as a Ray. Clearly last year, Garza threw far more breaking stuff. Something like 50% vs. 70% FB’s.

  951. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Yankfem,

    Cash playing a little possum, perhaps? Not like he’s uh, done that before, or anything.

  952. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    GB, Merry Christmas! Hope you had a nice holiday! I will be interested to see what Abe brings to Trenton this year.

    Kuroda had a neck injury in Sept. which affected him. I think he was throwing less sliders, had mechanical issues as a result. I wonder if he is 100% healthy…

  953. austinmac December 27th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Trisha,

    I disagree with your opinion on Kuroda. However, no one has yet to offer me a penny for my baseball opinions so you may have it for it’s going rate.:)

  954. m December 27th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    At any rate, even though the starting rotation is not as solid as we’d like, you gotta feel good about the Yankees. Can’t wait until P&C’s report.

  955. Jason22 December 27th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    Happy Holidays and New Year all.

    I see GB linking Josh Norris all the time, which is fine when he is posting scouts opinions, but one thing for anyone who is not aware, while he might be a hard working guy, but he really does not understand baseball.

    This is someone who when last season began was saying the Yankees had released Brad Suttle because he heard it from someone when reporting about the Thunder roster. When I told him to think for a second and use common sense that they would never so such a thing, he did not grasp that because he is not a knowledgeable person about baseball. I think we as fans forget that just because someone is a writer, does not mean they know anymore than you, in fact for fans who understand baseball, i would say especially about the minors, we all know a lot more than any big league reporter covering the sport, and some minor league guys with exceptions of course.

    My comment on him is not just based on the Suttle thing, he frequently shows a lack of baseball IQ when talking about players, which is fine, he is paid to report on the Thunder, and I think he does a good job, just don’t go looking for any insight.

    Use him and any other reporter for the times they interview someone like a Mark Newman, but to trust any words he types about prospects, I would not take anything he says very seriously based on seeing what he writes for a few years now.

    I like Garza, but I am in the no Dellin minority, just because another team traded their # 3 or 4 guy, does not mean the Yankees 3 or 4 prospect is of equal value, people don’t seem to get that fact. Sanchez might be the Yankees 4 or 5th guy, yet for many many teams he would be # 1.

    I am still all on board the Kuroda and trade A.J bandwagon, if that can not be done, I let A.J prove once more he is who he is, and I put Noesi in the rotation, while keeping a close eye on Warren, who I think is underrated on this site, as well as Manny and Dellin who by June if they get their control down, could both help the team down the stretch.

  956. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Hasn’t Betances been cited by organizational people as their best pitching prospect?

    Perhaps the scout with the underwhelming view of him is trying to skew things a particular way? In other words, to affect his perceived trade value?

    Just think it’s a possibility.

  957. 108 stitches December 27th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Plain and simple. The Yankees views on payroll structure and luxury tax is directly affected by the contract of Burnett for the next 2 years.
    Some would say well what about the contracts of Alex and Derek ? The easy answer is they can still be contributors for as long as their health holds up. Burnett has reached his level of incompetence.
    The Yankees can’t make an outside quality pitching move of any kind until Burnett is gone.

  958. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
    GB, Merry Christmas! Hope you had a nice holiday! I will be interested to see what Abe brings to Trenton this year.

    Kuroda had a neck injury in Sept. which affected him. I think he was throwing less sliders, had mechanical issues as a result. I wonder if he is 100% healthy

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Yankeeem,

    Thank you for the well wishes and hope your holiday was a great time for you and your family.

    I have nothing against Kuroda, other than I don’t think he’s necessary. If a pitcher was needed and could be had reasonably. I’d prefer Edwin Jackson or for a multi-purpose role, Paul Maholm. I forget what writer posted the other day that the last 3 years of Jackson and Danks were quite similar, and they are. Just about a year and a half or 2 different in age and the money would be less, and no talent exchange. Maholm may be the best fit for NYYs, though..cheaper and fewer years than Jackson….and left handed, which suits NYs needs maybe more.

  959. blake December 27th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    “I am still all on board the Kuroda and trade A.J bandwagon, if that can not be done”

    Seems to make the most sense….

    ” Hasn’t Betances been cited by organizational people as their best pitching prospect?”

    I think it’s a matter of opinion between he and Manny……though just their actions lead me to believe they like Banuelos a little better because of his age…..his polish…..and the arm he throws with

  960. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Anyone putting Noesi in the rotation this year has no baseball IQ. Zero.

  961. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    GB7 – That’s a great plan, the only pitfall I see is… Maholm is not a good pitcher, and they are both worse than Kuroda. Other than that… great plan.

  962. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Anyone putting Noesi in the rotation this year has no baseball IQ. Zero.
    =========

    That’s a pretty strong assertion. Why is the idea of Noesi in the rotation in 2012 so absurd?

  963. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
    Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Anyone putting Noesi in the rotation this year has no baseball IQ. Zero.
    =========

    That’s a pretty strong assertion. Why is the idea of Noesi in the rotation in 2012 so absurd?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Didn’t you get the word, Ghost? The super secret numbers say so.

    Noesi, unless another deal is made, will be next in line to get a shot at the rotation.

  964. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
    GB7 – That’s a great plan, the only pitfall I see is… Maholm is not a good pitcher, and they are both worse than Kuroda. Other than that… great plan.
    ///

    There are a few here whose evaluative skills outshine yours.

    Just sayin’ :D.

  965. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    “Anyone putting Noesi in the rotation this year has no baseball IQ. Zero.”

    ?

  966. J. Alfred Prufrock December 27th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 7:22 pm
    Hasn’t Betances been cited by organizational people as their best pitching prospect?

    Perhaps the scout with the underwhelming view of him is trying to skew things a particular way? In other words, to affect his perceived trade value?

    Just think it’s a possibility.
    ///

    Villa, whether the scout has motive or not, he is lacking in insight, to the point where he’s not even making sense. Glad this guy’s not one of ours. Scary. And given the lack of ANYTHING remotely positive about a dynamic young prospect, I think your idea may have some merit.

  967. Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    J Alfred -

    That’s the thing of it – the report was so counter to everything else I’d ever heard. Weird.

    Just fyi, I wasn’t trying to defend the scout; just occurred to me that everyone has an agenda every now and then.

    :)

    Does the AAA team know where it is playing its home games?

  968. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Well, there goes another possible Yankee right fielder. Lastings Milledge has deserted us for Tokyo.

  969. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya December 27th, 2011 at 8:22 pm
    J Alfred -

    That’s the thing of it – the report was so counter to everything else I’d ever heard. Weird.

    Just fyi, I wasn’t trying to defend the scout; just occurred to me that everyone has an agenda every now and then.

    Does the AAA team know where it is playing its home games?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    The Empire State Yankees are at home where ever they go. Almost literally.

  970. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Yeah, super secret numbers like Noesi only threw 80 mediocre innings as a reliever last year, penciling him into the rotation so you can trade, no… give Burnett away is ridiculous.

    He’ll be the 6th option at best, with any luck he will be 7th.

    Prufrock – I’d certainly be willing to hear why Maholm is a good pitcher… or how either of them are better than Kuroda… but that option doesn’t get brought to the table. Only snarky “how could you be so…” comments. I don’t see it as particularly close… they would be the first good pitchers with 1.4 WHIPs uhm… ever? :)

  971. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Villa, they are playing home games mostly in Rochester, thanks to the Mets. We do get, I believe, 12 games in LHV though.

    GB, thanks for the wishes. fangraphs actually did the original Edwin Jackson/Danks comparison, FWIW.

  972. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    That’s a pretty strong assertion. Why is the idea of Noesi in the rotation in 2012 so absurd?

    The Yankees fudged his progression. He was at 160 and then dropped down to 80. I wouldnt clear him for 180 major league innings. I’d let him go nice and slow down in AAA. Hughes basically did the same thing and died. The Yankees need to not jerk their guys around. The goal should be manageable innings increases each year. Guys should only be an option out of the pen once they hit 180-200 innings. Then you can work them into the rotation through the bullpen or however.

    Nova managed to put in the same amount of major league innings as Noesi did in 2010 but threw 180 TOTAL for the year. Cashman and Girardi let Noesi sit as the super emergency longman in the pen for like the entire summer not getting any meaningful innings.

  973. Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    GB – remember when Milledge was the latest and greatest fad?

  974. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    keithlaw keithlaw
    Higher peak, longer career. “@maxrieper: What’s the scouting report on Murakami? Good as DiceK?”

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Damned, Keith. Masanouri Murakami must be nearly 70 years old by now. Still, that’s probably younger than Kuroda.

  975. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Villa,

    “The Yankees will play 37 of their home games in Rochester, with the other 35 being split between Buffalo, Batavia, Syracuse, Lehigh Valley and Pawtucket.”

    Read more: http://citizensvoice.com/sport.....z1hmxHr3B8

  976. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    The scouting report on Murakami is that he is a heckuva writer. ;)

  977. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    At least they got a chunk of the games in one place… those AAA guys are going to have an exhausting year.

  978. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    You’re most welcome, YankeeFem. I know that I read that comparison somewhere. Just wasn’t sure where.

  979. Irreverent Discourse December 27th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    GB7 – http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....n-jackson/

  980. blake December 27th, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Yea I didn’t like what they did with Noesi last year at all and said so all season….it would have been different if they really had needed him…..but he threw mop up duty for the most part and very rarely threw any meaningful innings….anybody could have thrown those innings. He should have been starting at Scranton all year.

  981. RadioKev December 27th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Jerkface,

    With Noesi and other starters, it’s not an exact science. For example, I’ve never heard anyone say that if you throw 160IP one season, and then 80IP the next season, you take a step backward..the assumption seems to be you can at least pitch to the threshold you hit beforehand.

  982. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Agree about Noesi, but it could have been worse; at least they had him start in winter leagues to get his innings up.

    SWB sched for locals (Lehigh Valley): “Yankees fans who don’t want to leave the state to see their hometown team will have a handful of chances to do so. In addition to the season-opening two games in Lehigh Valley on April 5 and 6, the Yanks will face the IronPigs in a four-game set from April 26-29, on five straight days from July 2-6 and again on Aug. 26, 27, 29 and 30.

    Read more: http://thetimes-tribune.com/sp.....z1hmz8c0f8

    You are welcome, GB.

  983. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    With Noesi and other starters, it’s not an exact science. For example, I’ve never heard anyone say that if you throw 160IP one season, and then 80IP the next season, you take a step backward..the assumption seems to be you can at least pitch to the threshold you hit beforehand.

    Sure, but they did the same thing to Hughes and he died. The Yankees operate on ‘career high’ numbers for innings progressions, but I don’t think its smart to count on players that coming off the slump. I wouldn’t build Noesi back up from 80, but I certainly wouldnt put him in the majors.

  984. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
    The scouting report on Murakami is that he is a heckuva writer.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I remember when Murakami first joined the SF Giants back in 1964 and all of the headline hoopla over him in the midwest. 20 years old and a big fastball and assortment of breaking pitches. I remember the first game that I saw him pitch on TV was against the Cubs that year and, I thought…WOW!! 1 inning, perfect and 2 strikeouts. The next day, the Cubs whacked him around. Don’t recall what he did to the Cubs the following year in ’65. Still, I think he could have been good, but, he went back to Japan to pitch after the ’65 season and just disappeared, I guess. Wasn’t a real big guy, though, about normal for a US player at about 6 feet and 170-180 pounds.

  985. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 8:50 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    With Noesi and other starters, it’s not an exact science. For example, I’ve never heard anyone say that if you throw 160IP one season, and then 80IP the next season, you take a step backward..the assumption seems to be you can at least pitch to the threshold you hit beforehand.

    Sure, but they did the same thing to Hughes and he died. The Yankees operate on ‘career high’ numbers for innings progressions, but I don’t think its smart to count on players that coming off the slump. I wouldn’t build Noesi back up from 80, but I certainly wouldnt put him in the majors.
    ==========

    Didn’t Noesi pitch winter ball? I think that he may have gotten his innings up for 2011.

    At any rate, it’s a judgment call. They jerked Chamberlain and Hughes, and it threw them off their stride. However, throwing around Nova had no effect. In the end, I think that barring injury, if a player has the ability, determination,. and character to compete at the major league level, then I don’t think missteps in bringing a given player along are necessarily determinative. There is way too much of an art to this.

  986. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    EDIT:

    However, jerking around Nova had no apparent effect.

  987. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    BTW Merry Christmas to everybody!

  988. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Didn’t Noesi pitch winter ball? I think that he may have gotten his innings up for 2011.

    At any rate, it’s a judgment call. They jerked Chamberlain and Hughes, and it threw them off their stride. However, throwing around Nova had no effect.

    He is at 120 IP for the year after winter ball. Its still short and cuts his progression. And they did not throw around Nova. He got 180 innings the year after throwing 140 with most of it coming in the minors. He was ready to throw the innings he did in the majors. I wouldnt count on Noesi to be able to perform like Nova did.

  989. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 27th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
    GB – remember when Milledge was the latest and greatest fad?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Joe,

    I remember that everybody wanted him on their team and for the first 3 or 4 years, it looked like every team was going to have him, until he played.

  990. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    I believe that Noesi pitched @126 innings including winter league.

  991. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 8:58 pm

    They absolutely did jerk around Nova. They even demoted him at one point despite the fact that he had been doing a great job. And in fact, had been out-performing Hughes, the guy for whom Nova was demoted.

    It took a special kind of perserverance and precociousness for Nova not to be derailed by that. A lot of guys would have sulked and gone into a tailspin.

  992. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    If Noesi was short on innings for 2 or 3 years, there may be an issue in 2012, but, not after one year. Will that mean that somebody like Buchholz will be on an innings limit in 2012 because he only pitched half a season?

  993. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    I believe that Noesi pitched @126 innings including winter league.

    As of December 10, he was at 121: http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....l-updates/

  994. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Ghost, Merry Christmas. Noesi pitched 6 innings on the 16th.

  995. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    MLB is doing the best of the players wearing uniform numbers 1 through 50. Guidry and Pettitte have their numbers so far.

  996. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    If Noesi was short on innings for 2 or 3 years, there may be an issue in 2012, but, not after one year. Will that mean that somebody like Buchholz will be on an innings limit in 2012 because he only pitched half a season?
    ===

    I tend to agree with this. Getting to 121 IP in 2011 is probably close enough. I don’t think that increasing innings per year has to be a straight line progression. Putting him in long relief for the second year in a row would be a mistake for him, but I don’t think that last year’s stint in the big leagues is necessarily detrimental to his development–at the very least, he got a taste of life in the Show.

    I don’t see why he wouldn’t be a viable call-up at some point in 2012 if conditions warrant it.

  997. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    YF, Thanks!

  998. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    If Noesi was short on innings for 2 or 3 years, there may be an issue in 2012, but, not after one year. Will that mean that somebody like Buchholz will be on an innings limit in 2012 because he only pitched half a season?

    Who cares about Clay Buchholz? Besides which he pitched 180 innings back to back in 09 and 2010.

    If I were the Yankees I’d do pretty much the opposite of whatever their current strategy is since they still have no developed a consistent starting pitcher.

  999. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Noesi will be just fine. He’s close to Nova, so, I’m sure that Nova will give Noesi his take on what he needs to do to get things polished in his time in AAA. If he follows the advice, he’s going to help NY in 2012. How much will depend on how much he gets in the games and how he handles the situation while in AAA.

  1000. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    They absolutely did jerk around Nova. They even demoted him at one point despite the fact that he had been doing a great job. And in fact, had been out-performing Hughes, the guy for whom Nova was demoted.

    This is not what I am talking about with Noesi. I’m talking about actually getting your innings. You can have your opinion of moving pitchers to different/roles whatever, I’m not in that discussion. I’m talking about preparing your starters specifically to pitch a lot of innings. Nova had 140 innings (minus winter ball, dunno what he did and stats hard to find) then pitched 180 the next year with 50 in the majoprs and then pitched 181 innings the year after with the majority of it in the majors. That is a progression that makes sense to me.

    Noesi going 160->120->180 doesn’t. I think he should be in the minors getting his starter legs back and shouldn’t be the first one called up. Let him get established again.

  1001. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    I’m hoping both Banuelos and Betances can get 160-180 innings this year at AAA….maybe a September call up. That’ll put them both in line to compete for a spot in 2013.

  1002. yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    JF, Nova pitched 25.2 innings in Winter league in 2010, and was dominant. So, @212 innings.

  1003. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    So there you go, I’d wager he got around 20 in winterball in 09 as well. So he was prepped to pitch a lot of innings. If Noesi pitched 180 innings in the majors next year it’d be the first time he ever hit that number. I don’t want see our guys end up like Hughes, basically.

  1004. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Betances and Banuelos especially, need to just get their innings in the minors. No bullpen stuff.

  1005. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    “Betances and Banuelos especially, need to just get their innings in the minors. No bullpen stuff.”

    yes

  1006. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    … Nova had 140 innings (minus winter ball, dunno what he did and stats hard to find) then pitched 180 the next year with 50 in the majoprs and then pitched 181 innings the year after with the majority of it in the majors. That is a progression that makes sense to me.

    Noesi going 160->120->180 doesn’t. I think he should be in the minors getting his starter legs back and shouldn’t be the first one called up. Let him get established again.

    ============

    Nova pitched 148 innings in 2008, followed by 139.1 IP in 2009. My point is simply that deciding how to build up a pitcher’s IP generally speaking is not a precise science, and it doesn’t need to follow an upward path in pattern of steady increases over time. It is as much an art as anything else.

    In fact, we don’t even know how much sidework he did during the course of the season to get his work in. All we know about for sure is the number of official IP he logged across various leagues. Noesi was apparently healthy, and got a reasonable amount of work (if suboptimal) in 2011.

  1007. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    So there you go, I’d wager he got around 20 in winterball in 09 as well. So he was prepped to pitch a lot of innings. If Noesi pitched 180 innings in the majors next year it’d be the first time he ever hit that number. I don’t want see our guys end up like Hughes, basically.
    =========

    Correlation is not causality.

  1008. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    What’s wrong with a new pitcher cutting his teeth in the big leagues out of the bullpen in his first season? Lots of great pitchers started out that way.

  1009. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Nova pitched 148 innings in 2008, followed by 139.1 IP in 2009.

    -

    Nova did not jump up in innings, then ramp down, then go back up. He had a progression. I’d even call it steady. We also don’t know how much winter work he did in 09.

  1010. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    What’s wrong with a new pitcher cutting his teeth in the big leagues out of the bullpen in his first season? Lots of great pitchers started out that way.

    Getting a little taste of the bullpen and then back to the minors to continue getting innings? Sure. Noesi, Joba, or Hughes level innings killers? No.

  1011. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    yankeefeminista December 27th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    JF, Nova pitched 25.2 innings in Winter league in 2010, and was dominant. So, @212 innings.
    ====

    Good point. This implies that Nova went from 139 IP in 2009 to 212 IP in 2010…. So, Nova making a step to 180+ in 2012 is possible.

    Part of the problem here is that we’re all working with somewhat incomplete information, and we often don’t even realize it..

  1012. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    This implies that Nova went from 139 IP in 2009 to 212 IP in 2010

    You’re missing winter ball innings for Nova in 2009. Nova pitched 25 innings in 2009 as well.

    So he went from 148 to 164 to 212, and his biggest innings jump came almost 70% in the minors.

  1013. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    The Yankees should probably follow the blueprint of a team that actually has had success in developing starting pitching…. Like the Rays.

  1014. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    All this information is revealing is the steady progression Nova got in his innings, the first yankee pitcher prospect in the past 5 years to get it. Ian Kennedy is the only one of the big 3 that didnt get jerked around in the bullpen and he is still starting effectively. I’m not saying the Yankee way can’t be done, or shouldn’t be, but maybe they should try something else.

  1015. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    # LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    The Yankees should probably follow the blueprint of a team that actually has had success in developing starting pitching…. Like the Rays.

    ——————————————–

    No no no now c’mon now all there picks were number 1 picks so it’s not fair

  1016. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    their*

  1017. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    That’s sarcasm right?

  1018. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    “No no no now c’mon now all there picks were number 1 picks so it’s not fair”

    Price was a #1 pick…..Hellickson was a 4th rounder, Moore an 8th rounder, and Davis a 3rd rounder.

    the Rays basically never bring a player up until they are as ready as they’ll ever be….especially pitchers. They do this because they can’t afford to miss on players and they can’t afford to waste years of control. So they get all their pitchers for the most part enough innings in the minors so they can step right in to a big league rotation with no real limitations.

  1019. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Also, Shields was drafted in the 16th round.

  1020. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Of course but it’s a line I hear other Yankee fans throw out all the time when ppl try to discredit the job they have done.

  1021. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Yankees held numbers 2-5 on the greatest to where each number 1-50.

    Jeter, Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio

  1022. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    of course not* My apologies for the typos.

  1023. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    The Yankees should use their luxury tax savings to steal the Rays player development people.

  1024. blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    and Arod was #13 and Munson #15.

  1025. Pat M. December 27th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    I am and always have been an advocate for bringing up pitchers through the organization, however after what happened in 08 and then watching how Hughes threw more innings in 2010 than the two seasons prior combined and came up lame in 2011…..It’s vital that these young guys are moved along smartly……Just think that by the time Hughes was Manny B.’s age he was already in the Yanks rotation….Granted he as well as Ian & Joba flew thru the system with great success, in hind sight they should have logged another season in AAA……Randy I was so vocally dead against Hughes coming back to the Yanks in 07 and to start 08….Memory tells me he was the only one who protested against the club’s decision back then…….Some organizations want their starters to log 500 innings at least before hitting the Bigs…..

  1026. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    # LGY December 27th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    The Yankees should probably follow the blueprint of a team that actually has had success in developing starting pitching…. Like the Rays.

    ——————————————–

    The big difference between the Yanks and the Rays is that the Rays historically have held onto their pitching prospects, while the Yanks have traded theirs. I don’t think that the Rays have any special voodoo beyond their propensity to keep their top pitching prospects.

  1027. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    # blake December 27th, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    The Yankees should use their luxury tax savings to steal the Rays player development people.

    —————————–

    That’s not a bad idea. The Yankees can identify talent but developing is the area they need help in.

  1028. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Joba started 15 games and threw 88 innings in the minors….only 8 starts in the upper levels…….

  1029. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    The Devil Rays could always afford to get their kids at bats and innings in the minors because until 3 years ago, they weren’t going anywhere and losing didn’t affect their attendance any more than their winning has.

  1030. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    “The big difference between the Yanks and the Rays is that the Rays historically have held onto their pitching prospects, while the Yanks have traded theirs. I don’t think that the Rays have any special voodoo beyond their propensity to keep their top pitching prospects.”

    who have they traded besides Kennedy that amounted to anything?

  1031. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    The Devil Rays could always afford to get their kids at bats and innings in the minors because until 3 years ago, they weren’t going anywhere and losing didn’t affect their attendance any more than their winning has.
    ====

    And they still have crummy attendance.

  1032. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    The ones that people are always wishing they had on the Yankees again. Kartsens, Ohlendorff, Vizcaino, Dunn, Coke (when he pitches a good game). How far do you want to go back?

  1033. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    The big difference between the Yanks and the Rays is that the Rays historically have held onto their pitching prospects, while the Yanks have traded theirs. I don’t think that the Rays have any special voodoo beyond their propensity to keep their top pitching prospects

    ——-

    Ummm. Did you miss Hughes, Joba, and IPK?

  1034. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    None of them are consistent MLB starters. Most of them were in the bullpen???? Bad examples.

  1035. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
    GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    The Devil Rays could always afford to get their kids at bats and innings in the minors because until 3 years ago, they weren’t going anywhere and losing didn’t affect their attendance any more than their winning has.
    ====

    And they still have crummy attendance.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    that’s always been the real crime of Selog’s legact (besides steroids/drugs). Putting another team in Florida, into a city with little industry that didn’t revolve around tourism. With nearly 25 teams in the area with ST teams and minor league teams, people that have limited incomes and love baseball will go to the minor league games…unless their hometown big league team comes to town, which is usually the Yankees and Red Sox. Baseball expanded too fast and too much in the ’90s and Selig hand picking his friends for ownership didn’t help.

  1036. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    Vizcaino, Dunn, and Coke are all relivers and I don’t think Karstens or Ohlendorff would be starting for the Yankees anyway…..none of those guys are anywhere near the level that the Rays have developed.

    Kennedy is the only one thus far that Cashman has really let get away…..and that was to deal for an MVP candidate. The Rays are good at developing pitchers…..they just are.

  1037. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    ***Selig’s legacy*** (besides steroids/drugs).

  1038. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    The big difference between the Yanks and the Rays is that the Rays historically have held onto their pitching prospects, while the Yanks have traded theirs. I don’t think that the Rays have any special voodoo beyond their propensity to keep their top pitching prospects

    ——-

    Ummm. Did you miss Hughes, Joba, and IPK?
    =======

    You’re joking, right? IPK was traded. How many failures did the Rays have of the guys that they kept? Do we already know that Hughes and Chamberlain are washouts?

  1039. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    You didn’t say they had to be the same as Devil Rays pitchers.

  1040. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    I think that the more pertinent question is who have they held onto? Depending over what period you’re talking about, the Yanks have traded away Prior, Westbrook, Lilly, Milton, Aceves, etc. I’m sure that there are a bunch of other guys that I’m forgetting right now.

    The fact is that the Yanks haven’t been in the business of developing ballplayers since the eighties. They get what they need through free agency or trades. The guys that make it out of the Yankee system to become Yankees (Pettitte, Mendoza, Rivera, etc.) are exceptions to the rule.

  1041. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    I was responding to the statment that the only difference between the Yankees and Rays is that the Yankees haven’t held on to their prospects and the Rays have…..I don’t think that’s the case because I don’t think the Yankees have traded away many pitchers that were all that good anyway.

  1042. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    “I disagree with your opinion on Kuroda. However, no one has yet to offer me a penny for my baseball opinions so you may have it for it’s going rate.:)”

    austinmac, I totally respect your opinion on Kuroda and it could very well turn out to be the right one. I personally wouldn’t sell the farm on it but am willing to listen to your reasons.

    My opinion that it would be a massive mistake to get Kuroda is based on his declining numbers, his losing record, his pitching in the weakest division in the NL, his neve having pitched in the AL, and his age. I would take Bartolo Colon 24-7 before I would go near Kuroda.

    I would like to know your particular reasons for thinking he is worth a shot. I consider you a reasonable person and I have changed my opinion in the past based on information put forward (granted it hasn’t happened often because I pride myself on doing my homework – but it has happened).

    I don’t cotton to the Veruca Salt arguments here because they are typically put forward by those who deal with high emotion rather than logic. But I do like to hear the positions of people who deal from logic and within the parameters set by the organization since those are the ones that are going to win out in the end!

    :)

  1043. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Then, there’s always the old “the yankees missed on “Moore. etc” keeping in mind that all 30 teams passed on him for 7 rounds. Looks like a lot of teams didn’t have a clue, and Shields was passed on 15 rounds.

  1044. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    “I think that the more pertinent question is who have they held onto? Depending over what period you’re talking about, the Yanks have traded away Prior, Westbrook, Lilly, Milton, Aceves, etc. I’m sure that there are a bunch of other guys that I’m forgetting right now.”

    Prior was drafted by the Cubs and they just let Aceves go…….I think they have made relatively few deals in the last 10 years that have come back to bite them.

  1045. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    You’re joking, right? IPK was traded. How many failures did the Rays have of the guys that they kept? Do we already know that Hughes and Chamberlain are washouts

    ——–

    Name the top pitching prospects the Rays have failed with.

  1046. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    “Then, there’s always the old “the yankees missed on “Moore. etc” keeping in mind that all 30 teams passed on him for 7 rounds. Looks like a lot of teams didn’t have a clue, and Shields was passed on 15 rounds.”

    so it goes back to their player development….they are finding diamonds in the rough and actually making diamonds out of them….unless we are to believe they are just really really lucky.

  1047. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    I was responding to the statment that the only difference between the Yankees and Rays is that the Yankees haven’t held on to their prospects and the Rays have…..I don’t think that’s the case because I don’t think the Yankees have traded away many pitchers that were all that good anyway.
    ===============

    I understood that. I just gave a list of guys that the Yanks moved. I really don’t see how you can disagree with it. We’re all familiar with the way the Yanks have been doing business for a number of years now. Since 2006, Cashman has tried to move the Yanks in a new direction, but it takes time to develop that kind of a productive system. Moreover, the Rays don’t operate with the constraints of having to produce a winner every single year.

  1048. comet December 27th, 2011 at 10:30 pm

    GB totally disagree on Burnett. He is what he is now, not when he was signed. That means you are paying a guy who is below replacement level $16 million a year. The Yankees gain by losing him. They would be better to sign Colon based on past performance and let Burnett sit at home.

    It is the same with an investment. If you paid $280 for Netflix that doesn’t matter today. You don’t hold on to the stock because of what you paid for it. You hold it or sell it based on the outlook going forward. Only if you think Netlix at $73 will outperform another investment opportunity do keep it. The money lost, is lost. To not accept that is to be emotionally tied to the stock (or player) simply because you thought you would make money (or the player would perform better) that it actually has. Simple as that.

    If the Yankees can pay someone $16 million and they take Burnett off our hands it beats paying the full $32 million PLUS 40%. The Yankees in effect save 22.4 million in payroll over the next two years for a pitcher most only expect to get worse. It makes absolute sense to pay as much of his salary as necessary to get another team to take him off our hands provided we can replace the innings with something at least comparable at a lower price than what his new team would be paying him. The Yankees should only keep Burnett if they truly believe he will show marked improvement or if they can’t replace him.

  1049. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    “Then, there’s always the old “the yankees missed on “Moore. etc” keeping in mind that all 30 teams passed on him for 7 rounds. Looks like a lot of teams didn’t have a clue, and Shields was passed on 15 rounds.”

    so it goes back to their player development….they are finding diamonds in the rough and actually making diamonds out of them….unless we are to believe they are just really really lucky.
    ======

    It’s not that they’re really lucky; it’s that they try more often with more prospects. I would be willing to bet that they’re success rate isn’t significantly better than any other ballclub. You probably just don’t follow them closely enough, so you aren’t familiar with all of their failures.

  1050. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    “Moreover, the Rays don’t operate with the constraints of having to produce a winner every single year.”

    true they don’t…..but they have put together a system that has allowed them to compete in the best division in baseball for 3 straight years now……all I’m saying is that some of the things they do are smart.

    They know they have to hit with their prospects a high percentage of the time to compete…..so they keep them down until they are sure they are ready…..they like to get ages 23-29 or so because that gives them more peak years.

    They also pick the guys they believe in and offer them cheapo extensions at really early ages…..it’s a little risky but it allows them to keep their guys longer and it’s really the only way they can hang with the big boys in their division.

    Brad Pitt should have played Andrew Friedman.

  1051. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    “It’s not that they’re really lucky; it’s that they try more often with more prospects. I would be willing to bet that they’re success rate isn’t significantly better than any other ballclub. You probably just don’t follow them closely enough, so you aren’t familiar with all of their failures.”

    the failures don’t matter….it’s about producing players for your big league club and they have developed a 6 deep rotation of quality. Price, Hellickson, Shields, Davis, Niemann, and Moore…..if other clubs were doing the same it would show in their big league rotation…..nobody else has that sort of depth from within

  1052. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    How many times have the Devil Rays drafted 2 and 3 players in the first or 2nd round? That many early picks, they’re bound to hit on a few. Bobby Seay, Matt White, they blew it on Hamilton and Delmon Young, seems to have blown it on upton…all talented and less than quality as far as dedication to the game or at least not identifying personality flaws.

  1053. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Every organization has failures…..otherwise all your prospects would make the big leagues. What matters is actually developing some that can help at the big league level…..

  1054. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    # Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    “Then, there’s always the old “the yankees missed on “Moore. etc” keeping in mind that all 30 teams passed on him for 7 rounds. Looks like a lot of teams didn’t have a clue, and Shields was passed on 15 rounds.”

    so it goes back to their player development….they are finding diamonds in the rough and actually making diamonds out of them….unless we are to believe they are just really really lucky.
    ======

    It’s not that they’re really lucky; it’s that they try more often with more prospects. I would be willing to bet that they’re success rate isn’t significantly better than any other ballclub. You probably just don’t follow them closely enough, so you aren’t familiar with all of their failures.

    ————————-

    True but with their success it doesn’t make sense to focus on the failures because they hit on guys like Shields and Price. All you have to do is hit on one of them

  1055. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    You’re joking, right? IPK was traded. How many failures did the Rays have of the guys that they kept? Do we already know that Hughes and Chamberlain are washouts

    ——–

    Name the top pitching prospects the Rays have failed with.
    =======

    You’re missing the point. Shields wasn’t a top prospect. The Rays picked him when he was 19, and held him until he blossomed. How many guys have the Yankees done that with? I’ll bet that the Rays have practiced this buy-and-hold strategy a lot more than the Yanks have. Shields is exactly the kind of guy that the Yanks would have thrown into a deal for an aging veteran, without giving it a second thought.

  1056. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
    “Then, there’s always the old “the yankees missed on “Moore. etc” keeping in mind that all 30 teams passed on him for 7 rounds. Looks like a lot of teams didn’t have a clue, and Shields was passed on 15 rounds.”

    so it goes back to their player development….they are finding diamonds in the rough and actually making diamonds out of them….unless we are to believe they are just really really lucky.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    You mean diamonds like Rivera, Pettitte, Cano, Posada?

  1057. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    Do you think the Rays would have buried Noesi at the bottom of their bullpen all last season?

  1058. Jerkface December 27th, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    they blew it on Hamilton and Delmon Young

    Delmon Young got them Matt Garza

  1059. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    True but with their success it doesn’t make sense to focus on the failures because they hit on guys like Shields and Price. All you have to do is hit on one of them
    ========

    I’m not focusing on their failures. I’m just trying to put their success in developing pitchers into context. My point is that I don’t think that the Rays have a magic formula for drafting and developing pitchers, aside from having patience with their prospects, and not picking the fruit off the tree before it is ripe.

  1060. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    “You mean diamonds like Rivera, Pettitte, Cano, Posada?”

    talking about starting pitching in the last 10 years or so……the Yankees are doing a great job at developing role bullpen arms…..hopefully they are getting there with the starters. Nova is a start……need to build on that with Noesi, maybe bouncing Hughes back…..and then hopefully hitting big on Banuelos and Betances.

  1061. m December 27th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    The Rays and Yankees don’t operate the same way. Different personnel and contracts. The Yankees don’t trade away their Garzas and the Rays don’t sign immovable pitchers. So, no, they wouldn’t have buried Noesi or a pitcher like him.

  1062. RadioKev December 27th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
    Do you think the Rays would have buried Noesi at the bottom of their bullpen all last season?
    ———-

    I think leaving Noesi in the pen was a fine move. The real argument was keeping AJ Burnett in the rotation.

    Having a good long guy is still a plus, and when you’ve got young arms and holes to fill…you might as well fill holes.

  1063. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    “I’m not focusing on their failures. I’m just trying to put their success in developing pitchers into context. ”

    the context is that they have developed 6 quality big league starters that are currently in their rotation…..that’s very good in relation to the rest of baseball.

  1064. m December 27th, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    LGY,

    Did you see that they’re going to have a Season 8 of Weeds? I had mixed feelings when I read that. Hopefully the sister gets killed off!

  1065. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    The Yankees shouldn’t operate exactly like the Rays do…..but there are some things they do that the Yankees could incorporate that would be positive IMO.

  1066. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    The point stands. Young has bounced around ever since for the reasons I stated. As far as Garza goes? what do the Devil Rays have to show for it so far? A bunch of minor leaguers and only a 3rd string catcher to make it to the majors?

  1067. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    The Rays and Yankees don’t operate the same way. Different personnel and contracts. The Yankees don’t trade away their Garzas and the Rays don’t sign immovable pitchers. So, no, they wouldn’t have buried Noesi or a pitcher like him

    ——-

    Yeah, because the Rays are a much smarter organization than the Yankees.

  1068. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    Hi Comet! So nice to see you here. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas!!!

    :)

    I believe I am one of the very very few here (if not the only one) who does not believe that Burnett’s ship has already sailed. Only time will tell if I am on to something or totally out of touch. I don’t necessarily want to take a vote here to see one people vote for, ha ha. I still think Burnett has something to offer, enough to keep him in the rotation.

    I am hoping I am calling it correctly.

    Again, I totally understand why people either want him traded or totally out of the picture.

    I just don’t agree with the assessment.

  1069. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    M

    I did see that. Not sure how good it will be but I’m happy there will be another season.

  1070. m December 27th, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    I’m a fan of the Yankees, not a fan of how a team is run. We all know that the Yankees march to a different drum. We love this storied franchise, not the little upstart a hop, skip, and a jump away from their ST facility.

  1071. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    Like blake said, the Yankees shouldn’t be exactly like the Rays.

    But the Yankees have a clear weakness in developing starting pitching.

    They should learn from other organizations that have been successful at it.

  1072. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Everybody in baseball that since 1973 and through 2006, the Yankee GM was George Steinbrenner. Love him for trying, but, he knew names not baseball or baseball talent. Had he not been banished for the two different occassions, they wouldn’y have won in 1977 or 1978 and not in the ’90s.

  1073. blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    I do think the Yankees have made some changes and I’m hopeful that they are improving with regards to handling and developing young starters.

    However…just think how they handled Joba. The kid started 15 games in the minor leagues….hadn’t even gotten 100 innings under his belt when they called him up to the bullpen for the stretch in 07…….then the next year put him in the big league rotation and wondered why he floundered and was inconsistent……it’s a big jump from college to the big league rotation with only 88 pro innings in between.

  1074. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    Everybody in baseball ***knew***that since 1973 and through 2006

  1075. RadioKev December 27th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    And Noesi’s over all value has increased since moving to the pen. He’s got some major league success under his belt. Other General Managers have seen him too, so his trade value has ticked up a bit…and his value to this organization has ticked up as well. You can tell the organization thinks of him as a potential keeper now.

  1076. Yanks78 December 27th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    AJ in the rotation is the biggest waste of all. He is blocking a spot that could go to a young guy and he has been the worst starter in the AL in the last 2 years, and it’s not even that close.

  1077. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    “I’m not focusing on their failures. I’m just trying to put their success in developing pitchers into context. ”

    the context is that they have developed 6 quality big league starters that are currently in their rotation…..that’s very good in relation to the rest of baseball.
    ————

    Umm… Yes, that’s one way of looking at it if you wish to strip out any meaningful context, with respect to the question of how they have hit on so many solid pitchers in recent years.

  1078. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    Pretty hard to miss when you have 9 or 10 of the first 100 picks in a draft.

  1079. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    “Umm… Yes, that’s one way of looking at it if you wish to strip out any meaningful context, with respect to the question of how they have hit on so many solid pitchers in recent years.”

    you’re trying to look at it in a context of 6 successes vs all the “failures” that didn’t make the big league roster…..that’s every club though only most clubs haven’t developed 6 good big league starters…..some clubs haven’t developed a single one in recent years.

    They hit on so many solid pitchers because they drafted well and developed well….I don’t see how you can look at it any other way. Price was the only gift wrapped guy.

  1080. Ruby Red Sock December 27th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    Talking to hear oneself talk = Typing incessantly and saying nothing

    Blind faith and a Hopeless prayer = AJ’s is worth $16 mil. and his ship hasn’t sailed

    Fallacy = Christmas Cookie Dough is of the non fat variety

    Kuroda will become a Yankee = Sukiyaki is a Italian food

  1081. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    “Pretty hard to miss when you have 9 or 10 of the first 100 picks in a draft.”

    that’s part of their strategy…..they had all those picks last year after winning the division and making the playoffs.

  1082. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    For not having any idea of how to draft, sign, scout or develop players, seems to be a lot of teams asking for Yankee players…a lot of them.

  1083. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    The Rays try and bring guys up at a time when they will get the best 6 years from then…..then they let them walk as free agents or trade them as they get expensive and expendable ….get the picks and start the cycle over again…..at least that was their system under the old CBA and that’s what happened after 2010…..they let a bunch of guys walk who had ran their course and they got a ton of draft picks for them.

  1084. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    If the Rays had the Yankees payroll it would be interesting to see whether they developed pitchers or bought them outright.

    Some things are pretty blatantly obvious, n’est-ce pas?

    Oui.

  1085. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Showing patience with pitchers in the minors, building up their innings properly, and having the proper restraint to not panic and pull a kid from his development to fill a hole on the major league team IS a strategy.

    You can’t just hand wave what the Rays have done with their pitching prospects. They have a plan. Something you really can’t say for the Yankees.

  1086. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    “For not having any idea of how to draft, sign, scout or develop players, seems to be a lot of teams asking for Yankee players…a lot of them.”

    the system is the healthiest it’s been in a long time right now….the Yanks have made great strides and have a lot of exciting prospects ….that doesn’t mean what the Rays have done isn’t impressive….especially on the starting pitching front.

  1087. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Ruby Red Sock December 27th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPNpJX8b-bc

  1088. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Yes, Blake, the Tampa Devil Rays has a front office with 30 Brach Rickey clones in it. the best ever to never win anything.

  1089. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    ***Branch Rickeys***

  1090. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 11:14 pm

    The Yankees have been extremely impressive in finding and developing talent from Latin America.

    Other teams should learn from them in this area just like the Yankees need to learn how to better develop pitchers and find talent in the draft.

  1091. blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    “Yes, Blake, the Tampa Devil Rays has a front office with 30 Brach Rickey clones in it. the best ever to never win anything.”

    they’ve become a yearly contender with a payroll that’s a fraction of what the Yankees and Red Sox run with……I call that something.

    anyway….off to bed. Night all.

  1092. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    blake December 27th, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    “Umm… Yes, that’s one way of looking at it if you wish to strip out any meaningful context, with respect to the question of how they have hit on so many solid pitchers in recent years.”

    you’re trying to look at it in a context of 6 successes vs all the “failures” that didn’t make the big league roster…..that’s every club though only most clubs haven’t developed 6 good big league starters…..some clubs haven’t developed a single one in recent years.

    They hit on so many solid pitchers because they drafted well and developed well….I don’t see how you can look at it any other way. Price was the only gift wrapped guy.
    =======

    I’m about to give up on this, because it is getting late. You’re looking at the end result–several young solid starters in their rotation–and assuming that it is because they have some superior method to draft and develop talent. I think that it has more to do with the fact that they are buyers and holders of young talent (while teams like the Yankees have tended to be sellers of young talent).

    Garza is even one of their prospects; he came out the Twins organization. Kazmir cam from the Mets. Jackson came from the Dodgers.

    Maybe the Rays are doing something right in how they develop young pitchers, but I’m not going to assume that they are, just because they have had a nice run over the last several years.

  1093. Bo knows December 27th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    Someone please explain to me about the Yankees development system that put Hughes in the Majors as a starter with a FB and a CB that he dropped for a knuckle curve, plus a cutter that he learned at the AAA level. That’s development right there.

  1094. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    “Showing patience with pitchers in the minors, building up their innings properly, and having the proper restraint to not panic and pull a kid from his development to fill a hole on the major league team IS a strategy.”

    And one that is readily available to a team that isn’t expected to win the world series every year!

    I’m surprised to hear you applauding that strategy since you always seem anxious to have the Yankees make moves to assure they are going to win, despite what $$$$$ they might have to put out to make the move. Patience doesn’t seem to be your strong suit.

    I like the restraint strategy, by the way. But I am infinitely patient.

  1095. Ghostwriter December 27th, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    EDIT:

    Garza wasn’t even one of their prospects; he came out the Twins organization. Kazmir cam from the Mets. Jackson came from the Dodgers.

  1096. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    we’ll find out just how intelligent the Devil Rays are without 5-9 first round picks every year.

  1097. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    correction: 5-9 of the first 100 picks

  1098. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    Trisha

    I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I’ve been advocating for years sending Hughes and Joba back to the minors. I hated when the Yankees brought Joba up in 2007. I didn’t want Hughes in the bullpen in 2009. I was disgusted with Noesi in the bullpen last year. I always want the Yankees to overspend on 1-2 year contracts on players like Kuroda so the pitchers in the minors get more seasoning. I was willing to let Jeter walk even if it meant living with Nunez at SS. I didn’t want them to sign Teixeira. I could go on and on.

    In terms of the expectation to win the WS every year, they have 1 since 2000. The probably need a different strategy.

  1099. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    # LGY December 27th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Showing patience with pitchers in the minors, building up their innings properly, and having the proper restraint to not panic and pull a kid from his development to fill a hole on the major league team IS a strategy.

    You can’t just hand wave what the Rays have done with their pitching prospects. They have a plan. Something you really can’t say for the Yankees.

    —————————–

    They have a plan rotation, bullpen, rotation, bullpen, rotation, and then throw their hands in the air and shrug shoulders.

  1100. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    You could go on and on…and usually do, even though most of it is pure BS. You get on a name or subect and run it into the ground with the same spew day after day.

  1101. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    LGY the only thing I would add to that then is that rather than overpay a Kuroda, the Yankees should bring back Colon and let the season play itself out with the kids staying in the minors to get the seasoning that they need. I absolutely agree with that strategy. To me there’s nothing wrong with a rebuilding year or two where fans aren’t screaming for the Yankees to go out and spend money in the offseason because they can’t deal with the possibility of not being king of the mountain!

  1102. LGY December 27th, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    I don’t have the patience to watch AJ Burnett be one of the worst pitchers in baseball for the third straight season.

  1103. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    Maybe the Rays are doing something right in how they develop young pitchers, but I’m not going to assume that they are, just because they have had a nice run over the last several years.

    ——————————–

    The results speak for themselves though. Didn’t teams try to copy the Yankee bullpen after their dynasty run.

  1104. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 27th, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    “I don’t have the patience to watch AJ Burnett be one of the worst pitchers in baseball for the third straight season”

    Then you just might have to turn the television to another station every 5th day rather than chance upsetting yourself over something so universally monumental. Sounds a little overblown to me. You’re either a fan of the team or you’re not. If you are then you deal with the ups and downs. If you’re only looking to be a fan when things are going great, I’d suggest getting a DVR and watching the replays of only the games the Yankees win.

  1105. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    This will be a “Must Miss” on TV tomorrow.

    YankeesPR Yankees PR Dept.
    Catch #Yankees President Randy Levine on #GoodDayNY Wed. Morning at 930am talking @PinstripeBowl

  1106. Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    we’ll find out just how intelligent the Devil Rays are without 5-9 first round picks every year.

    ———————

    They’ll find some way to still find talent. They’re no longer the Devil Rays.

  1107. BTX December 27th, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    For not having any idea of how to draft, sign, scout or develop players, seems to be a lot of teams asking for Yankee players…a lot of them.

    ————-

    Teams asked for Eric Duncan too.

    Let some of these guys do something in the majors first. And the criticism was on starting pitching, which is valid.

  1108. Abomb82 December 27th, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    ‘“I don’t have the patience to watch AJ Burnett be one of the worst pitchers in baseball for the third straight season”’

    yeah, that is the worst part of this whole thing. That a guy who is statistically the worst starter in baseball over the past 2 years is occupying 1 of 5 slots on a team that prides itself on putting the best possible product out there.

    But Cash is saving all these great prospects he allegedly has incase 3-4 guys get injured.

  1109. comet December 27th, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    Trisha thanks for the good words. All the best to you in 2012.

    My point is that you have to believe Burnett will be significantly better in 2012 to keep him. If you do (and you do) then it makes sense to keep him, If however you expect, as I do, the same or worse results, then it makes eminent sense to trade him for nothing and pay a good portion of his salary. The key, as I tried to point out, is not what he makes or what he has done in the past, but what will he do in the future. You don’t keep a player or play him simply because he makes a lot of money, IF you are making rational decisions. The Yankees made a mistake in playing Posada last year after seeing that he could not adapt to the DH. For some on here it was the right decision because Posada deserved the respect. In the 1960′s Posada would not have played much and would likely have been sent to the minors or traded. Decisions were made on a more rational basis. Mickey Mantle was kept not because the Yankees owed him anything but because he was their only draw. It was economics not skill that kept Mantle around after 1965. And Mickey Mantle was and is my favourite player of all time. I’m in the camp of those who believe that had he not been hampered by injuries he would hold most every offensive record, even today.

  1110. Nilsson December 27th, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    The two top revenue sharing recipients in recent years have been Tampa and Oakland. Yes, the Rays have done a fine job in their drafts and player development, but that success has also been subsidized with the kitty fund provided by the Yanks.

    All the more reason to put an end to the luxury-tax spending ways going forward.

  1111. GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    we’ll find out just how intelligent the Devil Rays are without 5-9 first round picks every year.

    ———————

    They’ll find some way to still find talent. They’re no longer the Devil Rays

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Not without Yankee dollars….and they’ll always be the Devil Rays. Live with it.

  1112. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 12:04 am

    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    we’ll find out just how intelligent the Devil Rays are without 5-9 first round picks every year.

    ———————

    They’ll find some way to still find talent. They’re no longer the Devil Rays

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Not without Yankee dollars….and they’ll always be the Devil Rays. Live with it.

    ———————————————

    I’m sensing hostility toward The Rays for some reason.

  1113. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Comet, I hear everything you’re saying. Yes I do believe he will be significantly better in 2012, but that might not be saying much, right? And your points are very well taken. All I can say is that it has to be inordinately difficult to run a baseball team and especially a team like the Yankees. Fans on this forum would have been CRAZED if Posada did not play a prominent role on last year’s team, and it isn’t because Posada was on top of his game – it was because Posada had earned the right to be there in the eyes of a lot of the fans. Is that any way to run a team? I don’t think so. But they have to take so many things into consideration – unfortunately one of them is putting fan(nies) in the seats and so if it means caving in to the entitled “me first” Yankee fans who show up to boo players who aren’t in their good graces, they seem to at least somehow take their wishes into account.

    Economic realities do end up taking the forefront. And the Yankees are typically in a no-win situation since they are criticized for being able to bury their mistakes when most other teams have to live with theirs, and when they decide to live with a mistake, they are criticized by the fans who can’t seem to tolerate ambiguity of any kind (talk about lacking balance! – the fans that is.)

    Makes you respect the fact that they still manage to walk the line relatively successfully in the face of all of the different “competing interests.”

  1114. m December 28th, 2011 at 12:10 am

    I think revenue sharing is the kitty fund.

    Here’s an interesting article about how the system encourages baseball’s poor to stay poor. Improving your team from a mid-60′s win to a mid-70′s win is a dead zone financially.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08.....score.html

  1115. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 12:04 am
    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    we’ll find out just how intelligent the Devil Rays are without 5-9 first round picks every year.

    ———————

    They’ll find some way to still find talent. They’re no longer the Devil Rays

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Not without Yankee dollars….and they’ll always be the Devil Rays. Live with it.

    ———————————————

    I’m sensing hostility toward The Rays for some reason.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Your sensing at the wrong target. I don’t give a rat’s behind about them one way or the other. I do consider them to be no better than welfare queens, though.

    They’ll always be the devil Rays, just like the Braves present third baseman will always be named Larry Jones.

  1116. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 12:26 am

    # GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 12:04 am
    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    Best To Ever Do It December 27th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    we’ll find out just how intelligent the Devil Rays are without 5-9 first round picks every year.

    ———————

    They’ll find some way to still find talent. They’re no longer the Devil Rays

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Not without Yankee dollars….and they’ll always be the Devil Rays. Live with it.

    ———————————————

    I’m sensing hostility toward The Rays for some reason.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Your sensing at the wrong target. I don’t give a rat’s behind about them one way or the other. I do consider them to be no better than welfare queens, though.

    They’ll always be the devil Rays, just like the Braves present third baseman will always be named Larry Jones.

    ——————————————————————-

    You should care a little they’re in our division.

    Yep definitely hostile it’s ok if they produce pitching better than the Yankees. But I know they haven’t won and their attendance is terrible and they get high picks so it doesn’t matter.

    “Larry Jones” is a 1st ballot HOF so he did something right

  1117. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 12:33 am

    # GreenBeret7 December 27th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Yes, Blake, the Tampa Devil Rays has a front office with 30 Brach Rickey clones in it. the best ever to never win anything.

    ——————————–

    You mean to tell this isn’t hostile.

  1118. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 12:37 am

    tell me*

  1119. Nilsson December 28th, 2011 at 1:02 am

    By the way, m, I finally caught Morning Glory. It’s a charming little movie. Good recommend.

    McAdams is underrated. She needs to be in more films.

  1120. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 1:30 am

    What did the rays have to show for Garza? 600 very strong innings, a WS appearance, an AL east crown, and then 5 prospects on the way out. Pretty good haul.

  1121. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 1:37 am

    Hey but if Hughes throws 200 2 ERA innings this year he will have equalled Garza’s 3 year output for the rays!

  1122. m December 28th, 2011 at 1:49 am

    Glad you liked it, Nilsson.

    Today I watched a Chinese film called “Warring States” (Netflix). Not sure how much of it was historically accurate, but it was pretty good. This was Tian Jing’s first feature film. Don’t even bother googling her images. They don’t do her any justice. She’s a beauty, and I predict she’ll be in a lot more movies.

    If you like Chinese films, it’s a good one. Not too heavy, with a whimsical male lead.

  1123. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:19 am

    This link and the next one may or may not have been posted about Phil Hughes and his work at API. Take them for what you want.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....l3ywh0CHKP

  1124. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:22 am

    The second article. For the blowhards on Hughes’ condition/weight: Yanks wanted him to report last year at 235 pounds. He came in at 240. He was contrary to popular myth hardly obese.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....nGrPBUCe9N

  1125. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:27 am

    Within the last month, Alex Rodrihuez, on the recommendation of Kobe Bryant went to Germany to have an experimental proedure done on his repaired knee WITH the approval of the Yankee front office.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....um=twitter

  1126. 108 stitches December 28th, 2011 at 7:04 am

    Comet said it correctly ……………

    If the Yankees can pay someone $16 million and they take Burnett off our hands it beats paying the full $32 million PLUS 40%. The Yankees in effect save 22.4 million in payroll over the next two years for a pitcher most only expect to get worse. It makes absolute sense to pay as much of his salary as necessary to get another team to take him off our hands provided we can replace the innings with something at least comparable at a lower price than what his new team would be paying him. The Yankees should only keep Burnett if they truly believe he will show marked improvement or if they can’t replace him.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Most bothersome is that a pitcher that been in a regress mode since 2008, is holding up either an outside deal or the progress of young organizational arms that can’t do worse than he’s done if given the opportunity.
    Assuming he can’t be moved, once again in the next 60 days, fans will hear ” I’ve found myself and know the steps needed to correct things. ” Yada-yada-yada. Translation : Usual implosions after the 3rd inning if not sooner. Just another leopard that doesn’t change spots.

  1127. Villa Nova-Ya December 28th, 2011 at 7:08 am

    Yankeefeminista -

    Thank you for all the information about the SWB home games. Much, much appreciated.

  1128. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:49 am

    http://multimedia.foxsports.co.....?m_n=true#

    Morning everyone…..don’t know if this column by Klapisch has been posted or not.

  1129. NYYanksFan December 28th, 2011 at 7:50 am

    A-Rod did full body cryotherapy too in Germany on Kobe’s recommendation. Subjects the body to intense cold (up to-160 degrees) for a short period of time to help the body recover and regenerate.

  1130. dogface December 28th, 2011 at 7:50 am

    The second article. For the blowhards on Hughes’ condition/weight: Yanks wanted him to report last year at 235 pounds. He came in at 240. He was contrary to popular myth hardly obese

    ===========================

    Blame Cashman for giving that myth its legs. He’s the guy who said for all to hear that Hughes had to go to “fat camp”.

    I never thought of Hughes as fat at point last year (or ever for that matter). He’s just a big kid. Tall and filled out. IMO, whatever shoulder issues that were so evident to begin the 2011 season had absolutely nothing to so with his weight or conditioning.

  1131. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 7:51 am

    I’ll do something that I seldom do. give credit for common sense to a NY sports writer, and I never thought much of his ability, Ken Davidoff. The piece I’m seperating is a quote from one of the most pompous jerks that there is among writers, Pete Abraham, followed by the article.

    “My friend Peter Abraham of The Boston Globe published his ballot yesterday, and he shared these two thoughts, among many others: 1) “Ignoring drug use seems unconscionable” ; and 2) “The argument that baseball didn’t have drug testing until 2004 is a silly one in my opinion. To use steroids or PEDs, a player had to break the laws of the United States by illicitly obtaining a drug and then secretly use it over a period of time to obtain the benefits. They knew what they were doing was wrong whether their union tacitly approved or not.”

    http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/.....=1.3414088

  1132. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:56 am

    Im cautiously optimistic about Hughes in 2012. The ball was coming out of his hand better in the playoffs than it has since early 2010…..and he should be in excellent condition and very motivated coming into camp this year…….

  1133. yankfan December 28th, 2011 at 7:58 am

    the doctor in germany, if arod saw the same one, is internationally renowned by atheletes. This should be encouraging. Although it should also tell us how bad arods knee actually was and why he couldnt drive the ball

  1134. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Good Morning.

    Is this thread ready for The Guiness book of world records ?

    I hope Chad wasn’t too badly injured when Santa’s sleigh ran into him ?

    A-Rod should meet Dr. Purita. How about it Bartolo. Can you do us a solid ?

    :)

  1135. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:04 am

    When it comes to the Yankees budget.

    You do not need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowin’.

    ;)

  1136. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:07 am

    Blake-

    Hughes needs to be introduced to Mr. Splitty.

    That and staying healthy would help.

    Perfect storm conditions are in place for Phil this coming season.

    ;)

  1137. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 8:16 am

    ALOT of people tweeted about Pabe yesterday and his take on the HOF ballot.

    Pete also tweeted “Oh, I also wrote on Yu Darvish and Yoenis Cespedes on my Hall of Fame ballot just to save time in 2032″

  1138. Trigeminal Neuralgia Yank December 28th, 2011 at 8:22 am

    Why do none of these blogs have the arod surgery info…
    I need one source for instant gratification .

  1139. disco stu December 28th, 2011 at 8:24 am

    “the doctor in germany, if arod saw the same one, is internationally renowned by atheletes. This should be encouraging. Although it should also tell us how bad arods knee actually was and why he couldnt drive the ball”

    I think it was the combination of him pushing himself to get back as quickly as he did after the knee surgery and then hurting his thumb diving for the groundball in his first game back after the DL … not only was he unable to fully recover from his injuries, he had no chance to get the timing down on his swing. He basically tried to gut it out for the playoffs.

    Say what you want about Arod, the one thing people can never accuse him of doing is “dogging it”.

  1140. blake December 28th, 2011 at 8:30 am

    MTU,

    Yea I think it would potentially be a good pitch for him…..he really needs to just find something that works and stick with it it. Hopefully with better arm strength his CB will come back

  1141. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Something about Germany and experimental medical treatments just doesn’t sit right with me.

    Maybe I’ve watched “Frankenstein” too many times.

    “Bride of Frankenstein” did kind of remind of Nurse Karloff though. That’s one of Randy’s favorites.

    :)

  1142. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Blake-

    Hope you’ve caught up on your sleep for now.

    I know people are justing trying to pass the time but this place sometimes reminds of watching a dog chase his tail if you get my drift.

    ;)

  1143. dogface December 28th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    I’ll do something that I seldom do. give credit for common sense to a NY sports writer, and I never thought much of his ability, Ken Davidoff.

    ==========================

    Agreed. Good for Davidoff to give the voting process some thought and being open minded enough to have his mind changed. Generally like his ballot too. Disagree on Trammel and I’m up in the air on Palmeiro, but otherwise thought it was right on.

    I like P Abe, but going with the “say no to drugs” section and applying it to McGwire, while at the same time voting for notorious coke head Tim Raines (who I 100% believe should be in the HOF) doesn’t show a great deal of the consistency that Davidoff talked about in his piece.

  1144. blake December 28th, 2011 at 8:46 am

    MTU,

    Gettin there…….still working on it

  1145. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Once saw a movie called “World without end”.

    This thread is the sequel “Thread without end”.

    Not as good as the the original.

    :)

  1146. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:51 am

    Blake-

    Start conditioning that future Yankee ss early by taking him hiking. Forget API.

    By the time he is Joba’s age he’ll be a stud.

    You want him supportin’ you in your old age. Gotta plan ahead. Take some advice from a friend and do it.

    :)

  1147. dogface December 28th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    MTU:

    Yeah. It’s be nice if there were a “blog babysitter” who could simply start a new thread from time to time when Chad isn’t available. Don’t even need news with it, especially in a week like this where news is at a minimum.

  1148. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    See you all later.

    Goin’ hikin’

    Have a great day.

    :)

  1149. dogface December 28th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    *it’d be nice……

  1150. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    DF-

    It can get a bit tedious around here without it.

    Reminds me of when I was a kid and did somethin’ bad at school.

    Had to write somethin’ on the blackboard over and over again.

    Have a good one.

    :)

  1151. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 9:09 am

    NYYs need to get this kid inked to a contract fast.

    “Athletics Interested In Jorge Soler
    By Tim Dierkes [December 28 at 8:04am CST]
    The Athletics have strong interest in five-tool Cuban outfielder Jorge Soler, according to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle. She says Yoenis Cespedes’ price tag is too high for the A’s, and his desire for either a four or ten-year deal doesn’t work for them.

    Soler, 19, has also been linked to the Yankees, Phillies, Nationals, Cubs, and Rangers this offseason. Nationals Director of International Scouting Johnny DiPuglia has watched Soler for years, and told Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post, “He’s got a Hanley Ramirez-type body. Plus arm. Plus bat speed. He’s a good kid, a good-energy kid.” Though Soler would need more minor league seasoning, it’s been written he could have more upside than Cespedes. Soler is younger and more talented than the Rangers’ Leonys Martin, wrote Baseball America’s Jim Callis, so he figures to beat Martin’s $15.6MM contract. Callis notes that the $2.9MM international signing cap installed in the new CBA doesn’t begin until the 2012-13 signing period, so as long as Soler signs before July 2nd, there are no limitations.

    Slusser also adds to the A’s-San Jose story in another article. She talked to former Giants general managing partner Peter Magowan, who thinks San Jose is “wishful thinking” for the A’s. She also learned from A’s owner Lew Wolff and others that the stadium issue is not on the agenda for the owners’ meetings in two weeks.”

  1152. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:14 am

    “I like P Abe, but going with the “say no to drugs” section and applying it to McGwire, while at the same time voting for notorious coke head Tim Raines (who I 100% believe should be in the HOF) doesn’t show a great deal of the consistency that Davidoff talked about in his piece.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    coke wasn’t a PED ,and imo raines compiled alot of great stats while usually not even being the best player on his own team. im not saying he doesnt belong in the hall, but its cerainly no slam dunk that he does.

  1153. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    gb i dont know where i read it but ‘word was’ last week that the A’s have been assured that a move to san jose will be approved.

  1154. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    NYYs need to get this kid inked to a contract fast”

    Yes they do.

  1155. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    If The “A’s” move to San Jose, it’s going to come with a huge pricetag.

  1156. m1kew December 28th, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Chad wrote – “so some of the familiar names from The Journal News will be manning the blog through what is almost always a slow week in baseball.”

    Come on LoHud give us some new threads.

  1157. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    I heard on the radio that it was going to be approved. If the As get a new stadium then that’ll really only leave the Rays with a terrible facility situation.

  1158. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    it was the Sporting News: “The Oakland Athletics—having traded two All-Star pitchers in a two-week period—reportedly have a reason behind a full-scale dismantling and rebuilding of the team’s roster: The A’s have received private assurances from Major League Baseball that they’ll be allowed to move to San Jose.”

    Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ml.....z1hq5hmgwq

  1159. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:22 am

    If the Yanks don’t move on Soler then I just wont get that at all…..unless they just disagree with the reports of his ability.

  1160. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    Oakland, or more likely, MLB will have to buy the territorial rights from San Francisco…much like the Nats had to buy Washington from Baltimore.

  1161. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    The Nats are slowly but surely stealing the Orioles market…..two teams moving in opposite directions.

  1162. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    From 1997 to 2006 the TB Rays picks have been as follows:

    Tampa Bay had 7 picks lower than # 8 overall.

    2006 ? #1 Evan Longoria 3B (#3 overall)
    2005 – #1 Wade Townsend P (#8 overall)
    2004 ? #1 Jeff Niemann P (#4 overall)
    2003 ? #1 Delmon Young OF (#1 overall) (Traded for Garza SP & Bartlett SS)
    2002 ? #1 B.J. Upton SS CF (#2 overall)
    2001 – #1 Dewon Brazelton P (#3 overall)
    2000 – #1 Rocco Baldelli OF (#6 overall)
    1999 ? #1 Josh Hamilton OF (#1 overall) ? Let him go!
    1998 No #1
    1997 #1 was #31 overall

    Also had 2007 ? #1 David Price (#1 overall)

    Those numbers of top picks could help anyone be good!!!

    TB 1st round picks:
    2007 – #1 David Price (#1 overall)
    2006 – #1 Evan Longoria 3B (#3 overall)
    2004 – #1 Jeff Niemann P (#4 overall)
    2004 – #2 Reid Brignac SS (#45 overall)
    2003 – #1 Delmon Young OF (#1 overall) (Traded for Garza SP & Bartlett SS)
    2002 – #1 B.J. Upton SS CF (#2 overall)
    1999 – #1 Josh Hamilton OF (#1 overall) – Let him go!
    1999 – #2 Carl Crawford OF (#52 overall)

    So basically from a 1st or 2nd Round perspective only:

    SP – David Price
    SP – Jeff Niemann
    2B – Reid Brignac
    SS – Jason Bartlett
    3B – Evan Longoria
    LF – Carl Crawford
    CF – B.J. Upton

    And the scary thing is that Josh Hamilton could have been on this team too!

  1163. dogface December 28th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Big news out of Japan. Yankees sign Hideki……………….Okajima to a minor league contract w/ spring invite.

  1164. bardos December 28th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:27 am
    Within the last month, Alex Rodriguez, on the recommendation of Kobe Bryant went to Germany to have an experimental procedure done on his repaired knee WITH the approval of the Yankee front office.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports…..um=twitter

    ———————————————————–

    I am going for this very procedure on my knees in January. They centrifuge your own blood, (therefore no rejection issues) and this sepaartes the blood into various layers. The middle layer has what they call growth factors

  1165. bardos December 28th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    and this is then harvested and injected into the knee. From this procedure we can ascertain that A-Rod is suffering from lack of cartilage.

  1166. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Ray,

    No question that picking high those years helped them get started turning things around…..but they have sustained it in other ways and not all of their current roster were high picks. 2/3 or their 6 man deep rotation were picked in the later rounds including the best pitching prospect in baseball (Matt Moore).

    So basically being bad and picking high gave them a kickstart…..but I think have developed a system to sustain it about as best as can be expected given their payroll situation.

  1167. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Let’s not pretend they haven’t gotten high picks in years. The topped picking at the top 4 years ago. All of those high picks are just now getting ripe.

  1168. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    ***They stopped picking***

  1169. dogface December 28th, 2011 at 9:46 am

    and this is then harvested and injected into the knee. From this procedure we can ascertain that A-Rod is suffering from lack of cartilage

    ================================

    Assuming this is the case, does the “middle layer” serve to somehow grow cartilage?

  1170. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    I am sure the TB Rays are doing things right on player development, but they have a better chance to do so picking so close to 1st in the draft almost every year. Plus their team sucked for so long that they actually got to test players early to see if they were capable even in like AAA whereas a yankee might be in AA or even A with the same skillset because AAA was made up of so many older ex-MLB or MLB ready AAAA guys.

    When Tampa offers arbitration most players reject it & TB gets more draft picks whereas if the Yanks were to offer almost all accept. The playing field is not level.

  1171. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 9:50 am

    “Big news out of Japan. Yankees sign Hideki……………….Okajima to a minor league contract w/ spring invite.”

    Not at all crazy about that move. I don’t mind that the Yankees are not spending like thieves. I just don’t want them regressing…

    *************

    For those who believe the Sux are still going to go on some kind of spending splurge to pick up some top-notch pitchers (of the pitching that is still available) what I can tell you is that when the “monumental collapse” happened last season and everyone in beantown was running around and pointing fingers, the word on the street was that the three stooges would not be doing what they did last season – going out and buying high-priced players, because it wouldn’t play well with the fans since they had done that with Agon and Crawford and the results weren’t there.

    My thinking is that the Sux are going to start with some kind of heal from within program and attempt to deal with their internal player issues before they add $$$$ to a team of misfits.

    An interesting watch will be ugly Puklisp and how he decides to treat Ellsbury this year. Rumor had it that he had basically managed to alienate Ellsbury from the majority of the team. That’s apparently what Tito referred to when he talked about players not having each other’s backs on the field.

  1172. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Hey Ray!!! Thanks for charting info they way you do. It makes tracking very easy.

    :)

  1173. austinmac December 28th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    AROD must be having continued issues with his knee if he is going to such lengths. That is a cause for concern.

    They either need to re-sign Chavez or get Nakajima signed as insurance.

  1174. bardos December 28th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    dogface December 28th, 2011 at 9:46 am
    and this is then harvested and injected into the knee. From this procedure we can ascertain that A-Rod is suffering from lack of cartilage
    ================================
    Assuming this is the case, does the “middle layer” serve to somehow grow cartilage?

    —————————————————-

    Yes, that’s what the growth factors are for. It’s kind of experimental, not used in the USA at all I think, but becoming widely used in Europe. A-Rod having to travel to Europe to have it done says it all.

    I think the technique is a couple of years old. Also, according to what I have been told, the procedure has to be repeated every so often. It is not a permanent cure. Perhaps the layer of cartilage laid down is not all that thick. I know tennis star Rafael Nadal has had this treatment.

  1175. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    ,When Tampa offers arbitration most players reject it & TB gets more draft picks whereas if the Yanks were to offer almost all accept. The playing field is not level.”

    No but that’s the only way they can compete with 150+ million dollar payroll teams. The system MLB has in place now can be worked so that all teams can compete…….its all about who is running the show and the decisions that teams make.

  1176. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    TB’s last real #1 pick was in 2008 #1 overall Tim Beckham SS & he is in AAA for TB. According to Baseball America, Beckham is the TB #7 prospect and is currently the #2 SS in their organization and slates to be a DH.

  1177. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Hello beautiful! Thanks! Hope you had a great holiday! Your cookies looked delicious!

  1178. Gary December 28th, 2011 at 10:04 am

    dogface December 28th, 2011 at 9:28 am
    Big news out of Japan. Yankees sign Hideki……………….Okajima to a minor league contract w/ spring invite.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Well it’s something. Maybe he’s an add to the middle relief corp if he can make the club. Given our SP we are going to depend heavily on the bullpen.

  1179. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    I completely agree Blake, but that said the TB model can’t and won’t work for the Yanks. The fact that the Yanks decided to pluck out from TB knowledge base & for the Yanks to grow their own Catchers & Pitchers is on schedule to really produce over the next 3 years or more.

    TB is short on position players as almost all their efforts went to drafting & signing SPs & they did that well.

  1180. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:02 am
    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Hello beautiful! Thanks! Hope you had a great holiday! Your cookies looked delicious

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Yes, and it’s really inhumane of her to tease starving men with pictures of what we can’t taste. The taste of this computer screen leaves much to be desired.

  1181. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    TB BA Top 10 (2012)

    TOP TEN
    PROSPECTS
    1. Matt Moore, lhp
    2. Hak-Ju Lee, ss
    3. Chris Archer, rhp
    4. Taylor Guerrieri, rhp
    5. Alex Colome, rhp
    6. Alex Torres, lhp
    7. Tim Beckham, ss
    8. Enny Romero, lhp
    9. Drew Vettleson, of
    10. Mikie Mahtook, of

    Note, no catchers, 1B, 2B or 3B in top 10.

  1182. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Well, we all like her cookies! My mouth watered for them too!!!

  1183. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Ray, you are without question on the cookie list! :)

    Thank you the holiday was wonderful – hectic but good. But I’m still waiting for the snow that will actually make it feel like winter is here! Hopefully I won’t have to wait much longer.

    ********
    I think two of the better moves the Yanks made last season were picking up Jones and Chavez – especially Chavez. Here’s a guy that can really do it all for you. He can get you that hit when you need it and no comment is needed on his glove! I can’t think he’d cost that much money where he’d put the Yanks over budget. I would love to see him brought back. Has there been any movement with respect to Chavez coming back?

  1184. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    “I completely agree Blake, but that said the TB model can’t and won’t work for the Yanks”

    No I agree…..in general its different and the Yankees shouldn’t do exactly what Tampa does…..but there are some aspects of what they do that the Yanks could incorporate ……such as building pitchers innings to a fullseason season level before bringing them up….such as offering extensions to guys you really believe in etc…..

    If the Yankees are going to run on a fairly strict budget……then they need to be more efficient and try to save where they can and try to cut bad money where they can so that 200 million or 189 million or whatever number it is buys more on the field

  1185. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    “Yes, and it’s really inhumane of her to tease starving men with pictures of what we can’t taste. The taste of this computer screen leaves much to be desired.”

    :lol:

    I SWEAR to you that right after the 1st of the year I will have the baking equipment out again and am going to make after-Christmas Christmas cookies and will begin some kind of modest distribution…

  1186. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    “Note, no catchers, 1B, 2B or 3B in top 10.”

    They’ll probably trade pitching depth for some of those things at some point…….they’ll trade David Price for a king’s ransom in the next two years I betcha.

  1187. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    From BA:

    While Tampa Bay continued to win in the majors, it also restocked its system. The Rays received five youngsters from the Cubs for Garza, including three quality prospects in shortstop Hak-Ju Lee, righthander Chris Archer and outfielder Brandon Guyer.

    The exodus of seven free agents gave Tampa Bay 10 compensation draft choices and an unprecedented 12 picks in the first two rounds. The Rays’ first two picks weren’t supposed to get to them, high school righthander Taylor Guerrieri at No. 24 and Louisiana State outfielder Mikie Mahtook at No. 31, and they continued to blend college players and prep talent afterward.

    **(Note, SS Hak-Ju Lee is #2 TB Prospect & SP Chris Archer is #3 from the Garza trade.)

  1188. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Gotta wonder just how bad A-Rod’s knee is based on his going to Germany for treatment, and also discussing the whole deal whith Kobe. Also gotta wonder why you regulars around here are Not all over this. Wake up, and get back to your usual attentiveness concerning matters of Yankee importance. That is all. As you were.

  1189. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    I understand & concur!

  1190. Ruby Red Sock December 28th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Cuz its cookie time thats why !!

  1191. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Again I agree that Price will bring a king’s ransom in top quality prospects when they trade him.

    What would happen if the Yanks traded CC for prospects? Or Cano? The TB model is based on sustaing a team after 6 or 7 years of being really bad. Now they have so many prospects that they can keep the talent pool overflowing. Can you imagine what the Yanks could do with 10 compensation draft choices and an unprecedented 12 picks in the first two rounds? It boggles them mind.

  1192. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 am

    Why did the Rays trade Matt Garza instead of someone else? He was their 2nd best starter when they dealt him……

    They did it because he would bring a better return than other guys and because he was about to get expensive in arbitration. Its the way they have to work……they run their club like a stock broker…….buying and selling assets to try and improve the overall portfolio and maintain a certain payroll…….the bubble may burst at some point if they get some guys bust on them……but the concept is very smart.

  1193. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    See guys here is the apparent conundrum for the Yankees (and this forum is definitely a microcosm of Yankee fandom!) There is an overarching “win now!” mentality that causes Yankee fans to act like rabid dogs and finds them turning on the organization as well as players who may not be performing at the standards that rabid dogs like them to perform. You guys insist on the Yankees getting involved in every sweepstake and you show the patience of gnats! At the same time you don’t want players brought up until they are ready to be brought up – that is until someone on the Yankees isn’t performing well or until the Yankees go into some kind of slump. Then you are SCREAMING for them to bring players up.

    I hope the Yankees decide to turn a deaf ear to the constant moaning and demands of the fan base and keep the spending down and take the time to develop the players rather than scoot them up to keep smiles on the faces of the spoiled rotten fanbase.

    I love the idea of developing from within, especially when you have the talent down below that the Yankees apparently have. Let the Yankees compete with the players they have. If they have made a decision about spending, live with it. Stop bemoaning the past. You can’t change it. Understand that all moves involve risk and you can’t know the outcome of a move until after it’s made, naturally. If you don’t trust that the organization knows what it’s doing and how to best run the club your option is to root for another team. Because we all know that the organization is going to do what it does, regardless of the arm-chair managing of a disgruntled fan base that can’t accept humans behaving like humans and not automotons.

    Substitute “thank you” for “more more more!” and see how much better it actually feels. This is a franchise that need never apologize to its fan base!

  1194. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Actually, I would lean more to the side of “How good it could be based on one of the world’s leading Drs fixing it to the best it can be.” Connections can the difference in life & death for us in knowing which hospital in which city is the best for Cancer/Heart treatment/care but guys like Kobe & Jordan & ARod know where the optimal care for fixing an issue to the best degree possible is. A slight, but major difference.

  1195. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Ruby Red Sock December 28th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPNpJX8b-bc

  1196. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 10:14 am
    “Yes, and it’s really inhumane of her to tease starving men with pictures of what we can’t taste. The taste of this computer screen leaves much to be desired.”

    I SWEAR to you that right after the 1st of the year I will have the baking equipment out again and am going to make after-Christmas Christmas cookies and will begin some kind of modest distribution…

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Trisha, I don’t want you to feel guilty about making Christmas cookies after Christmas. Could you make New Year’s cookies that look like Christmas cookies?

  1197. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 10:32 am

    GB – :) :) :)

    It will be done!

  1198. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:32 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Well said! That being said I think the Yanks need to use every advantage they have as well, which means $$$ on the FA & International front while it is still cost effective. Soler is a must IMO. Cespedes not as much, but he wouldn’t count against the Luxury Cap if they kept him in AAA or replaced someone like Gardner or Swisher.

  1199. Ruby Red Sock December 28th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Cookies and Milk ? (Baker eats em all)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJLgGarfNw

  1200. Irreverent Discourse December 28th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Man I hope that Chokajima post is a joke…. I don’t want him anywhere near this organization. He can only make our minor league prospects worse by standing near them and infecting them with his suck.

  1201. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    “Man I hope that Chokajima post is a joke…. I don’t want him anywhere near this organization. He can only make our minor league prospects worse by standing near them and infecting them with his suck.”

    Lol……I’ve never seen anyone throw a baseball the way he does…..it looks very painful.

  1202. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    - RAY -
    Gotta be more to it than spinning your own blood inna centrifuge and injecting it into the knee. Also gotta be some kinda Pipeline between the Elite stars regarding foreign procedures and possibly what you can put in your body that will result in positive performance without getting tripped up with via a CBA urine\blood test. Braun obviously aint in this Elite pipeline at this time.

  1203. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    You are good! LOL!

  1204. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Could be. The fact that stem cells, even your own stem cells, could be used to regenerate your body is still a work in progress. Is it PEDS if your own blood is used to grow new cartiledge? Or muscle? Ligaments? Or even make the ones you have stronger or more resilient?

    It is a tough question!

  1205. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Sounds like ARod got the Yanks approval on this one!

  1206. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    - RUBY -
    My High Octane Choc Chip Cookies are legendary. The Keebler elves continue to inquire as to the recipe, but I tell ‘em, “No soap”.

  1207. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    The procedure was approved by both the Yanks and the commissioner’s office……sounds pretty much like platelet spinning which isn’t controversial at all. Kobe looked pretty darn good last night so hopefully the treatment will help.

  1208. Irreverent Discourse December 28th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    RayVT – Certainly. One could even argue that something like Tommy John surgery is cheating. “Yeah, I just grafted an elastic cannon into my arm making me stronger and more durable going forward.” How is that different than taking drugs?

  1209. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Morning, Ray.

    Hope all is going well with you and the spy business. How have your holidays been going so far for you and the family? Weather here hasn’t been bad at all so far. Little rain, but, pretty warm during the day. Usually he’ll have a few real nasty days by now, but we sold the bad stuff to you northerners.

  1210. Ruby Red Sock December 28th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Now if you are makin cookies that’s a good thing ! Especially with the elfs helpin !

  1211. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    - RAY -
    Yanks approval and MLB, but the thing that strikes me is the back-and-forth with Kobe and -A-Rod. I have Never even seen a picture of these 2 together. The players AND Agents at this level are probably thicker than thieves.

  1212. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    “The players AND Agents at this level are probably thicker than thieves.”

    So…..Jeter is buddies with MJ.

  1213. Stoneburner December 28th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 am
    Why did the Rays trade Matt Garza instead of someone else? He was their 2nd best starter when they dealt him……

    They did it because he would bring a better return than other guys and because he was about to get expensive in arbitration. Its the way they have to work

    *******

    I believe Garza is already signed to a contract (bought out arb years and some FA years kind of like Shields) until the end of the 2013 season – so arbitration did not factor into it.

  1214. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    - BLAKE -
    If there was Not more to it, they would be doing it or experimenting with it over here. A LOT more to This procedure and story in general. Not to mention A-Rod and the Yanks said his knee was 100%during the Playoffs. Maybe something else happened after the fact, or simply your run of the mill Yankee subtrafuge.

  1215. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    I wouldn’t be concerned about Rodriguez friendship with Bryant if I were you. He probably doesn’t care who your friends are, either.

  1216. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    Nah Im pretty sure Garza is an Arb 3 this year and an Arb 4 next year.

  1217. Irreverent Discourse December 28th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Service Time (01/2012): 4.149, Arb Eligible: 2012, Free Agent: 2014

    1 year/$5.95M (2011)

    signed by Chicago Cubs 1/18/11 (avoided arbitration)

    1 year/$3.35M (2010)

    re-signed by Tampa Bay 1/19/10 (avoided arbitration)
    acquired by Chicago Cubs in trade from Tampa Bay 1/7/11

  1218. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    ID, hoping the same thing. The Yankees do not need any flea-infested contaminants that would come from that zoo organization.

  1219. blake December 28th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Yea Garza made right at 6 million last year as an arb 2 and will likely make 8 or 9 million in 2012 as an arb 3.

  1220. Irreverent Discourse December 28th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    I can certainly see the cubs trying to move Garza this year while his value is higher, but I doubt he’ll go anywhere til the ASB or next offseason.

  1221. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    - BERET -
    My circle of friends has always been and remains confidential. Intel tends to dry up unless that is strictly adhered to, as You well know. As you were, soldier.

  1222. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    # blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    “The players AND Agents at this level are probably thicker than thieves.”

    So…..Jeter is buddies with MJ.

    ————————————

    Yea all these athletes know each other either through having the same agents or working for the same charities.

  1223. blake December 28th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I think the Cubs will either trade Garza now ……or sign him to an extension soon. The return is never going to get any better than now…..and if they aren’t extending him then they might as well cash that chip in when they can get the most for it.

  1224. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    It’s ok. Okajima was disinfected by spending a year in Oklahoma. All he is going to be is a filler for the Empire State Yankees.

  1225. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    ID, unfortunately it appears to be true.

    http://fullcount.weei.com/spor.....h-yankees/

    Now all we can hope for is that he is sufficiently scrubbed down to remove all of the stench associated with the beer-swilling, chicken-eating, in-house fighting, disrespectful, titanic look-alike team.

    Perhaps it’s a good sign that he wanted to be traded away from there. He actually did a decent job once he was demoted away from the main slaughterhouse.

  1226. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Yeah Jeter was here in Charlotte NC with MJ this past week.

  1227. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    No I agree…..in general its different and the Yankees shouldn’t do exactly what Tampa does…..but there are some aspects of what they do that the Yanks could incorporate ……such as building pitchers innings to a fullseason season level before bringing them up….such as offering extensions to guys you really believe in etc…..

    —————————-

    Exactly no one wants the Yankees to become the Rays but there are aspects of how the FO runs the team that would be beneficial to the ball club.

  1228. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 11:08 am

    GB, interesting that we both headed toward the need for decontamination!

    :)

  1229. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Good Morning GB! The weather has been great here except some rain & wind. Can’t complain for the northern 50°F weather up here in the Carolinas! LOL! I guess Northern is North of I-10 huh? LOL! I need to get down to FL & see you!

  1230. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    The Rays didn’t receive their first compensation pick until 2010.

    From 1996-2009 they had exactly one pick in each round.

    From 1996-2010, the Yankees received 15 extra picks just in the first round. They had 5 years in which they had multiple first round picks and only one year in which they had no first round pick at all.

  1231. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    - Best To Ever Do It -

    “Charity begins at home”. I believe I heard A-Rod say that. Or was it Kobe?

  1232. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    From 1996-*2009*, the Yankees

  1233. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    So true! Actually contact lenses & eye surgery changed things as well. Some changes are good while others aren’t! It is tough to distinguish!

  1234. blake December 28th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    “Yeah Jeter was here in Charlotte NC with MJ this past week.”

    Maybe Jeter will buy the Charlotte Rays in a few years! ;)

  1235. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Does anyone know about Alex going to Germany to have work done on his knee?

    This makes me nervous… Sorry if it’s in here, no time this morning to scan the blog.

    Thanks, guys.

  1236. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Ray,

    If you come to Florida to see me, you’ve gone too far. better go about 16 miles past I-95 and I-16 in Georgia. I’ll be happy to put you up for a few days. I need some free help on the roof, siding, interior walls, carpet, etc. anyway.

  1237. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    # LGY December 28th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    The Rays didn’t receive their first compensation pick until 2010.

    From 1996-2009 they had exactly one pick in each round.

    From 1996-2010, the Yankees received 15 extra picks just in the first round. They had 5 years in which they had multiple first round picks and only one year in which they had no first round pick at all.

    ————————————————-

    Checkmate

  1238. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    # J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Does anyone know about Alex going to Germany to have work done on his knee?

    This makes me nervous… Sorry if it’s in here, no time this morning to scan the blog.

    Thanks, guys.

    —————————–

    Yep it’s being discussed right now. Hopefully it’s not that serious but since he’s going for treatment it has to be some what serious.

  1239. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Good morning, Lohudders!

    I don’t like the Garza to Boston rumors. Theo will overpay for his former Boston prospects.

    Pruf, Alex story here: http://tracking.si.com/2011/12.....n-germany/

  1240. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    The RS will *underpay,* it should say, b/c Theo will overrate his own former prospects.

  1241. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Thanks Best and Yankeefem.

    I came in thinking there’d be a new thread up about it, but saw none & had to dash.

    Appreciate the info. Let’s hope Alex becomes superman again from the treatment, ala 2009. Really, he just needs to be Alex.

    Check in later. Good one, folks.

  1242. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 11:29 am

    LGY December 28th, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Actually, the Yanks had no 1st round pick in 2002 & lost a 1st round pick in 3 of those years from 1996 to 2009. (1997, 1998, & 2008)

    1996 Eric Milton Left-handed pitcher University of Maryland, College Park (College Park, Maryland) 20
    1997 zzz Tyrell Godwin* Outfielder East Bladen High School (Elizabethtown, North Carolina) 24
    1997 Ryan Bradley Right-handed pitcher Arizona State University (Tempe, Arizona) 40
    1998 Andy Brown Outfielder Richmond High School (Richmond, Indiana) 24
    1998 zzz Mark Prior* Right-handed pitcher University High School (San Diego, California) 43
    1999 David Walling Right-handed pitcher University of Arkansas (Fayetteville, Arkansas) 27
    2000 David Parrish Catcher University of Michigan (Ann Arbor, Michigan) 28
    2001 John-Ford Griffin Outfielder Florida State University (Tallahassee, Florida) 23
    2001 Bronson Sardinha Shortstop Kamehameha High School (Honolulu, Hawaii) 34
    2001 Jon Skaggs Right-handed pitcher Rice University (Houston, Texas) 42
    2002 zzz !no first-round pick
    2003 Eric Duncan Third baseman Seton Hall Preparatory School (West Orange, New Jersey) 27
    2004 Phil Hughes Right-handed pitcher Foothill High School (Santa Ana, California) 23
    2004 Jonathan Poterson Catcher Chandler High School (Chandler, Arizona) 37
    2004 Jeffrey Marquez Right-handed pitcher Sacramento City College (Sacramento, California) 41
    2005 Carl Henry Shortstop Putnam City High School (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) 17
    2006 Ian Kennedy Right-handed pitcher University of Southern California (Los Angeles, California) 21
    2006 Joba Chamberlain Right-handed pitcher University of Nebraska-Lincoln (Lincoln, Nebraska) 41
    2007 Andrew Brackman Right-handed pitcher North Carolina State University (Raleigh, North Carolina) 30
    2008 zzz Gerrit Cole* Right-handed pitcher Orange Lutheran High School (Orange, California) 28
    2008 Bleich, JeremyJeremy Bleich Left-handed pitcher Stanford University (Stanford, California) 44
    2009 Heathcott, SladeSlade Heathcott Outfielder Texas High School (Texarkana, Texas) 29

    I don’t see the 15 exta picks!

  1243. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    LOL! So you are a Yankee (North of I-10 too)! LOL!

  1244. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    You’re Welcome JAP

  1245. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 11:38 am

    RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 11:32 am
    GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    LOL! So you are a Yankee (North of I-10 too)! LOL!

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, but, nobody down here knows I’m a born yankee. I just say “ya’ll” alot.

  1246. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Actually, the Yanks had no 1st round pick in 2002 & lost a 1st round pick in 3 of those years from 1996 to 2009. (1997, 1998, & 2008)

    —-

    I’m talking about compensation picks. They received 15 from 1996-2009 and I pointed out there was one year in which they had no pick (2002).

  1247. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    YF, I see the entire thing in a very different light.

    I absolutely and unequivocally do not see Theo doing jack squat to help the Sux in any way, shape, or form. I see the opposite.

    And if they should land Garza, I can’t wait to see that battle of egos between Beckett, Lester, Bucholz and Garza!!! It would be worth the price of admission.

    I have no worries about that happening, or if it should happen, the outcome.

    Can you spell “sinking ship”?

    http://tracking.si.com/2011/12.....att-garza/

  1248. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    A-Rod’s current physical condition, (whatever that may be), has probably had Cashman hog-tied for quite a while. This may explain why Jurrjens is Not a Yankee, (due to having to hang onto Nunez), and maybe why Swish is still around and Beltran Not.

  1249. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    LGY December 28th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Kind of unfair to say they received 15 compensation picks w/o saying they lost 10 picks due to FA signings or not being able to sign their pick the previous year.

    TB had 10 1st round picks in 2011. 10! They had 3 1st round picks in 2010. That is just crazy.

  1250. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    To be more precise with the numbers:

    From 1996-2009, the Yankees had 47 picks in the first 3 rounds of the amateur draft.

    In the same time frame, the Rays had 37 picks.

  1251. 108 stitches December 28th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    I [might] consider Matt Garza for Betances (no Banuelos) and Phelps provided the Yankees get a window to buy out his remaining arbitration time and some free agency years of Garza but the holdup remains as in any other outside deal. Burnett has to be dealt first and all that goes with it.

    http://cubs.mlb.com/team/playe....._id=490063

  1252. blake December 28th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    I think Garza would legitimately increase the Yankees chances of both winning the division and winning the WS…..if Cash could get him without including Montero or Banuelos then he should consider it……of course if they wont add 12 million for Kuroda then they may not be willing to add 8 or 9 million for Garza either though.

  1253. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    What the Rays did in the 2010 or 2011 draft is irrelevant to their past success.

    They didn’t build their rotation by receiving a bunch of extra draft picks.

  1254. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Okajima, then Nakajima, what’s next?-Kuroda signs for less to play with Yankees? :)

    Jurrjens will never be a Yankee unless the team physicians totally ignore his chronic right knee condition!

  1255. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    You can forget the 1st Rd Picks, player developement, and all the other clap-trap that is frequently lauded upon The Rays. They showed their true colors when they signed MANNY. Tampa wants to win a badly as any other organization out there, and will do Whatever is within their where-with-all to achieve such. That’s the bottom line with Tampa, and if they had the $$$, they would sign 10 Manny’s if they thought that would win ‘em a championship. The sheep skin fell off the wolf a while back.

  1256. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    I like Garza (always have in spite of his erraticism, and especially now that he has become more of a pitcher ), but not for a haul. If Yanks are giving up Betances in a package of specs that is too much. Rays gave up Archer plus Hak-Ju Lee, plus 3 other prospects (including Chirinos, at a premium position); even with Garza in arb 3 instead of arb2, Theo would demand at the very least two top fives. I would rather sign Kuroda.

  1257. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Interestingly, of those 47 picks Gardner has been by far the most successful, accumulating 14.8 fWAR as a Yankee.

    The closest player is Joba with 7.9 fWAR in pinstripes.

  1258. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    YT, thinking the same about Jurrjens. Last thing we need is a damaged goods pitcher.

  1259. RadioKev December 28th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 11:58 am
    I think Garza would legitimately increase the Yankees chances of both winning the division and winning the WS…..if Cash could get him without including Montero or Banuelos then he should consider it……of course if they wont add 12 million for Kuroda then they may not be willing to add 8 or 9 million for Garza either though.
    ————-

    Yup, totally agree..I’ve been banging the drum for a while. Garza would be a very solid addition to the rotation, and he’d be worth the cost of Betances. Betances has got all that upside, but he still has to figure it out. I’d cash in and take the sure thing.

  1260. blake December 28th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    I would probably rather sign Kuroda as well…..though I think its becoming more apparent that they aren’t going to do anything unless they can move AJ.

  1261. blake December 28th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    The addition of Garza would make the Yankees one of the more solid pitching staffs in baseball when you consider 1-8 depth and bullpens…….

  1262. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Yankeefem

    Apparently there is reserved interest in Kuroda @12M, even with teams not in danger of paying luxury tax. Maybe the price will come down for the Yankees to bite.

  1263. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    YT, we can always hope.

  1264. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 11:47 am
    A-Rod’s current physical condition, (whatever that may be), has probably had Cashman hog-tied for quite a while. This may explain why Jurrjens is Not a Yankee, (due to having to hang onto Nunez), and maybe why Swish is still around and Beltran Not.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Or maybe because Cashman feels the same as other GMs and tha would be that Jurrjins isn’t healthy enough to make a trade worth doing. Atlanta has two starters that won’t be starting the season (Hudson and Hanson). Why would they give up another starter when that would put 2 more rookies into their rotation? Does that make sense for a contending team. He’s not making enough money to hurt them.

  1265. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Actually Hudson had a lumbar discectomy end of November and should be good to go.

  1266. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Okay, someone nudge me when pitchers and catchers report. I need to save my psychic energy for rooting on the team that ends up out on the field! I’ll leave the rest of the armchair figgering to those of you so inclined!

    ;)

    Later y’all.

  1267. DONNYBROOK December 28th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    - BERET -
    I don’t dispute that view. But there are far more serious ramifications concerning A-Rod’s current status than A-Rod simply taking a junket to Germany as the Tea-and-Crumpets Crowd around here currently believe.

  1268. Tom in N.J. December 28th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    The Rays success hasn’t been because of draft position, it has been because of player development. Jeremy Hellickson was a 4th round pick; Matt Moore was an 8th round pick; James Shields was a 16 round pick.

    There’s this idea that the Rays roster is full of top draft picks because they were bad for so long, but part of the reason they were bad for so long is because they had little to show for their early drafts.

  1269. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    If the Yankees could trade for Martin Prado-arb eligible-That would help the bench at every position except SS, CF, and C.

    Braves want a SS. Would it be worth trading Nunez signing Nakajima and trading for Prado if the Braves insist on Nunez?

  1270. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    RadioKev, I wouldn’t say Betances has *a lot* to figure out. He needs to revert to 2010 form and be more consistent, also throw his changeup more, have the Yankees allow him to go deeper into games. He was on a pretty tight leash in 2011 and basically asked to throw mostly FB’s to work on FB command.

    Bet, Rays aren’t as fatal about Chris Archer whose command went south to a greater degree than Betances’ in 2011. What we do with Betances going forward will kind of set the tone for how patient we will be with our pitching prospects generally. We need to let these pitchers evolve, especially the ones with plus stuff. Betances is closer than most people think.

  1271. Jacques Strappe December 28th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    “An interesting watch will be ugly Puklisp and how he decides to treat Ellsbury this year. Rumor had it that he had basically managed to alienate Ellsbury from the majority of the team. That’s apparently what Tito referred to when he talked about players not having each other’s backs on the field.”

    Hmmm … if Pukelis really has alienated Ellsbury (first I’m hearing of it) and if it turns out that Ellsbury’s not happy over there … well there’s got to be a way the Yanks could make him happy in NY as soon as he’s no longer under Red Sux control. That’d be even better than when NY lured Damon from Boston. Ellsbury’s a younger & all around better player, and comes w/o Damon’s ultra-wimpy, rubber-chicken-throwing arm. Imagine him in the same outfield as Granderson & Gardner, and those three batting consecutively with Tiexiera & Cano.

  1272. RadioKev December 28th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    RadioKev, I wouldn’t say Betances has *a lot* to figure out. He needs to revert to 2010 form and be more consistent,
    ——–

    I think that’s one of those things “easier said than done.”

  1273. blake December 28th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    ” Betances is closer than most people think.”

    Hopefully…..he’ll be 24 before opening day and the most innings he’s ever thrown in a season is 126. They need 150+ innings from him in AAA this year….

  1274. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Until later. Have a great day!

  1275. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    its really unbelieveable how much the yankees pay out to keep other mlb teams in buisness. In 2009 revenue sharing cost the yankees $109M, i believe the same year they paid $25M in luxury tax money. $134 M was just about the total player payroll for the bottom 3 teams in mlb!

  1276. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    i know the luxury tax money doesnt actuallly go into revenue sharing, but operationally, the yankees are paying for 3 of their opponents.

  1277. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    blake, Betances was pretty consistent in 2010. We shall see. He has been working very hard to repeat his release point. Again, what people saw in ST and end of year was a result of nerves and his overthrowing. He has been working hard in offseason on repeating his delivery. His walk rates comparatively weren’t that bad. Better than Archer, Manny B. etc.

    As for innings, he could have gone more in 2011 and wanted to. The Yankees restricted him. He said he could have easily gone 150-160.

    His age is somewhat irrelevant considering the injury history; he is healthy now and can be a horse if he remains so. Big, strong with great stuff. I am betting on him.

  1278. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    YankeesWFAN
    ARod’s knee has to be big concern going forward. My own personal guess–Yanks would be thrilled if he played 120 games

  1279. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    the yankees held both dellin and manny b back at the start of the season last year, i think neither pitched the first week and a half of the aa season.

  1280. Jacques Strappe December 28th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Non-roster invite for Okajima not bad. He was vulnerable against righties but as long as they make him the lefty specialist, OK.

    Selection of Lefties:
    Logan, Cabral, Okajima, Marte

    Selection of Righties:
    Ayala, Noesi, Wade, Joba (eventually I hope) Robertson

    And of course:
    Mo

    I know, I know, I know … Feliciano & Soraino are missing. Your point is … ?

    I’m sure they Yanks can keep up a good bullpen over the whole season with that group of names and of course a few of the others which I didn’t happen to mention. And I would think Banuelos & Betances get a little exposeure later in the season too.

    My thoughts on Betances/Banuelos are …. if Betances has a tendency to be a little inconsistent with his control, he may become trade bait at some point. Even if he’s not the second coming of Kyle Farnsowrth, simply because the Yanks have more options to fill out the bullpen now. Banuelos would be a lot less likely to be traded than Betances.

  1281. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    Ys Guy, they both had blister problems.

  1282. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Betances has more leeway with control because his stuff is so good. Out of pen, he could top out at 100, not that I am advocating that. He is fine sitting mid 90′s as a starter with that late rise on FB.

  1283. blake December 28th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    YF,

    I hope he pans out…….I really do. Hitting on both he and Manny would really solve a lot of issues longterm.

  1284. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    If they gave Hughes all these years to fight through injuries, inconsistency, dead arms, etc. they certainly can give Betances/Banuelos the same shot.

  1285. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    blake, nothing is guaranteed except death and taxes. But Betances’s fb and curveball are slam dunks. Hope to see him soar in 2012. Manny too.

  1286. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    betances blew me away when i saw him, and most of the opposition hitters. new brittain was a good hitting club, too. he had them all mistiming his fb because he hides it so well. plus he has a deceptively slow windup for such velocity. i’d expect a guy his height to have control problems in the beginning. but if he gets that under control, look out!

  1287. CB December 28th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    “The Nats are slowly but surely stealing the Orioles market…..two teams moving in opposite directions.”

    Win-win for DeAngelos. He basically controls the Nats TV rights. Part of the agreement made to let D.C. get a team. They are in the Orioles territorial rights.

  1288. Tom in N.J. December 28th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    New York Yankees 2012 Top 10 Prospects List

    http://baseballinstinct.com/20.....ects-list/

  1289. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    one more thing about betance, how can you not root for a bronx boy who grew up a yankees fan?

  1290. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Ys Guy, QFT. The kid bleeds pinstripes.

  1291. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    And Ys Guy before LGY corrects you, born in the Heights, lived in LES, went to school in Brooklyn.

  1292. CB December 28th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Expectations for Betances strike me as being inordinately high.

    Sure he could in theory be ready and be “close” to putting it together.

    At the same time it wouldn’t be surprising at all if it took him until he was 28-29 to figure it out.

    The probability is more heavily weighted that it takes him a longer time to figure it out.

    I don’t see Banuelos and Betances as being particularly comparable.

  1293. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    i saw betances on tv last year say he went to school in the bronx despite what has been reported.

  1294. m December 28th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    YF,

    I was thinking about that-that Theo would be in love with his own former prospects (and know them better).

    trisha,

    I’m also thinking that Theo would want to avoid any impropriety by giving what would probably be a sweetheart deal to his former team.

    Look how respected Hoyer is after gifting Gonzalez to the Sox!

  1295. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    CB, I think Betances’s ceiling *is* high, and he has the stuff to realize it. Expectations are subjective. I have seen him a lot. 2011 was a slight setback but that doesn’t negate 2010 in the same league. I saw him command repeatedly in 2010. And he has been able to correct himself in game. It make be sooner or later. We shall see.

    I don’t see Dellin and Manny as comparable except that they need to both work on FB command, obviously Manny has smoother mechanics and is still harnessing newfound velocity and Dellin has the size factor to contend with, but the more devastating stuff, lefty-righty consideration understood.

  1296. blake December 28th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    CB,

    I didn’t know that about Angelos….very interesting.

    I agree on Betances /Banuelos also…..I’ve seen Manny pitch quite a bit more than I have Betances but just with his age and his delivery I think he’s a significantly better bet to actually become a good big league starter. Repeating a delivery is everything for a starting pitcher……and Manny has one that’s very smooth and very repeatable.

  1297. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    YS Guy, Grand high school in Brooklyn. Maybe as a kid?

  1298. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    That Manny has a more repeatable delivery is a given.

  1299. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    CB December 28th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
    Expectations for Betances strike me as being inordinately high.
    ///

    On the contrary, they strike me as inordinately low on this board by people who 1). have never really seen him over any legit sample, and 2). make the leap that he’ll never be able to do what he already has done in 2010.

    For a player at his level of development, experience, and talent – there’s a whole lot of reason to be optimistic about him.

  1300. CB December 28th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    The Yankees can spend money and construct the roster as they chose. And it makes sense for them to try to get below the tax threshold by 2014.

    But if they truly believe that playoff baseball is a “crapshoot” then they are building the team based on an incorrect hypothesis.

    And that’s never a good thing to do.

    The next few seasons are going to be interesting.

  1301. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
    betances blew me away when i saw him, and most of the opposition hitters. new brittain was a good hitting club, too. he had them all mistiming his fb because he hides it so well. plus he has a deceptively slow windup for such velocity. i’d expect a guy his height to have control problems in the beginning. but if he gets that under control, look out!
    ////

    I see no reason why last year is more indicative of his future than 2010. The stuff is unquestionable, the command/control has been there for long enough stretches to convince me he’ll get the better of that more often than not. He’s a coachable young man, as well, and is determined to succeed. His strikeout and hits allowed rates are cold facts, too. & yeah, it is neat that he’s a New Yorker whose dream is to wear the pinstripes. One of us.

  1302. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    betances said on yes last year that he went to hs in the bronx but someone got it wrong on his bio and the mistake has been repeated over and over. it could be that he’s pumping up his bronx cred, but he seemed pretty emphatic about it.

  1303. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Ys Guy, that makes sense, because Betances went through the same youth program that Manny Ramirez did. Maybe he split time, or something, because I recall a quote somewhere where he said “I love Brooklyn, but I’m FROM Manhattan (or LES).”

    Maybe I can dig something up later in the day that may clarify our Borough roving Killer B.

  1304. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    well, we’ll just say he’s a 3 borough yankee fan and former bleacher creature. ’nuff cred there…

  1305. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    Seems as though Alex Rodriguez not only had work done on his right knee, but also his left shoulder. That should do a lot to fix the missing power in his swing last season.

    MarcCarig Marc Carig
    Cashman says A-Rod had procedure done on left shoulder and right knee.

  1306. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    LOL. And told everyone not to draft him, it’s Yankees or bust (or Vanderbilt) :D. Gotta love the kid.

  1307. blake December 28th, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    I think everyone would love to see Betances become a monster for obvious reasons…..we’ll see hopefully he will.

    CB,

    What do you think about Garza? What do you think it would take to aquire him and would that price be worth it to the Yankees?

  1308. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    so alex is doing a knee and a shoulder, should i be worried about that or just happy that he doesnt have to have more hip surgery? apparently he’s not having any scalp problems… :)

  1309. blake December 28th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Matt Garza Talks Heating Up

    By Tim Dierkes [December 28 at 12:53pm CST]

    Trade talks for Cubs starter Matt Garza are heating up, writes David Kaplan of Comcast Sportsnet Chicago. Kaplan says the Blue Jays, Yankees, and Red Sox are involved, but the Cubs’ asking price is “incredibly high.”

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

  1310. blake December 28th, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Buster Olney Buster_ESPN

    @Andrew Bailey likely will be traded to one of two teams –either the Red Sox or the Rangers. Both have an interest, both have chips.

  1311. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Matt Garza Talks Heating Up
    By Tim Dierkes [December 28 at 12:53pm CST]
    Trade talks for Cubs starter Matt Garza are heating up, writes David Kaplan of Comcast Sportsnet Chicago. Kaplan says the Blue Jays, Yankees, and Red Sox are involved, but the Cubs’ asking price is “incredibly high.”

    Yesterday, MLBTR’s Ben Nicholson-Smith took an in-depth look at Garza’s contract situation; he’s under team control through 2013. Cubs president Theo Epstein said on Friday that Garza is “exactly type of pitcher we want to build around,” but he’ll listen on everybody.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Since Boston is hot for Andrew Bailey, too, they have a real decision to make. They don’t have enough to get both and still fill other holes and still have back-ups

  1312. DocTodd December 28th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Yanks sign Choke-A-Jima

  1313. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    ill throw my 2 cents in, i think the cubs will want 2 pitchers, say a nova and manny or dellin (demand manny then maybe settle on dellin) plus romine plus something. they may come back a bit on that but that depends on the other offers they get.

  1314. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    dont get all up in bunches over a non-roster invitee..

  1315. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Rodriguez had the procedures done in November. He’ll be ST ready.

  1316. CB December 28th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    I like Garza. Still not fully translating his talent into performance – but he’s real good. For all practical purposes – he’s almost the model “number 2″ on a good team.

    All that said – it makes more sense for the Cubs to extend him.

    So I think we’re going to be in a Danks situation only amplified.

    Basically to trade for him you’ll have to agree to make a deal in which you give up far more value than you get back.

  1317. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    How does sending Nova to Chicago do anything for the Yankee pitching staff?

  1318. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    i just answered the question of what they might be asking. and that was before the tweet about the ‘increadibly high” asking price.

  1319. mick December 28th, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    great video of Mariano and the cutter:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ns-cutter/

  1320. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    One way to lower the cost of talent is to take on a portion of one of their bad contracts, and that’s Soriano.

  1321. CB December 28th, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    Also-just to clarify- I’m extremely hopeful on Betances. But to me hope is the operative word.

    He’s extremely talented obviously. He’ll be very difficult to square up in the majors.

    But at the same time, I can readily see him having a development trajectory which makes it very difficult for him to grow on a team that is always looking to win. The fit is going to be difficult.

    The best thing for him would be to transition through the pen. But I don’t have much confidence that if he went to the pen he’d ever get out unless economic factors really drive that process of him needing to be in the rotation.

    He’s a player that it’s very difficult for the Yankees to try to build and make plans around as the variance in his performance and the variance in the time frame of his production are both so wide.

    I hope he has a huge year and gets penciled into the rotation next season. But I also know that hope is just the fan in me wishing…

  1322. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    I would offer a package of second tier guys for Garza, don’t really think he’s worth much more, up till last year he gives up a lot of hrs is only 2 games above .500 and did do a DL stint last year because of a elbow problem…for me more than 2nd tier is a no

  1323. blake December 28th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    “One way to lower the cost of talent is to take on a portion of one of their bad contracts, and that’s Soriano.”

    I’ve thought about that……but the Yanks don’t seem very willing to spend any money at all
    …let alone take on bad money to facilitate a trade.

  1324. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    just asking is the Yankee closer in waiting on this team, because something tells me this could be Mo’s last year

  1325. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    word is that the cubs are going into a rebuild, so soriano might not be what they want.

  1326. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    word is that the cubs are going into a rebuild, so soriano might not be what they want.
    —————————-
    not what what the Yankees need either

  1327. mick December 28th, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    David Robertson is your next closer.

  1328. mick December 28th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    AJ for Zambrano, straight up.

  1329. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    I’m all set on an overpay for Garza or any kind of #2. If this is the trend out there, Danks model, then you keep your farm in top order and make due with guys like Colon. Overpaying for anything isn’t worth it unless it’s life and death. I’ll repeat what I’ve said and many have already said, pitching wasn’t the issue last year. You can’t get much better than a top 3 staff. They couldn’t hit tough righties. Fix that issue before you address anything else.

  1330. blake December 28th, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    I see the parallel between Danks and Garza…..however Im not sure their GMs are going to operate in the same way or believe they are in the same places.

    Kenny Williams basically came out and said they weren’t rebuilding after he had made other moves that suggests they are or should be……they are kinda in an inbetween zone right now.

    Theo has made it clear they want to start over with the Cubs…..and while Garza would be a good candidate to extend……he may be worth more as a trade chip on their way to building a contender.

    It just depends on how they are looking at it…..Theo can probably get a lot more for Garza than KW was going to get for Danks

  1331. 108 stitches December 28th, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    If Cashman had been able to peddle Burnett at the winter meeting earlier in the month, it would have cleared starting rotation space for Garza or another sensible deal outside of the organization.
    Doubtful the Yankees were ever serious about Darvish.
    Cashman has his hands tied to do anything for pitching until Burnett is gone. Hopefully, he’s still working on it.

  1332. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    i dont advocate making the trade i suggested, i was just estimating what they would ask for. nova+mannyb+romine+. i wouldn’t go there, but i wouldnt be surprised if they are asking for even more than that at this point.

  1333. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    BryanHoch Sounds like Brian Cashman is waiting to see what happens with the Nakajima situation before pursuing Eric Chavez any further.

  1334. 86w183 December 28th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Including Nova in any pitching trade would be foolish. He’s the # 2 guy right now.

    What the Cubs really need is a long term solution at 1B and some bats for the OF… don’t think the Yanks have either to offer.

    AJ & Swish for Garza and Soriano?

    Cubs get financial relief long term, Yanks get talent upgrade

    Dunno who plays RF is that happens

  1335. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    looking at the Cubs team I could see why they want to rebuild that team isn’t very good, Jeff Samardzija & Castro are nice players to have from that team

  1336. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    86w183 December 28th, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    Including Nova in any pitching trade would be foolish. He’s the # 2 guy right now.

    What the Cubs really need is a long term solution at 1B and some bats for the OF… don’t think the Yanks have either to offer.

    AJ & Swish for Garza and Soriano?

    Cubs get financial relief long term, Yanks get talent upgrade

    Dunno who plays RF is that happens
    ———————————————————
    where will Sori play or is he a PH…..

  1337. blake December 28th, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Theo wouldn’t trade Garza for salary relief……he will only trade him of the prospects coming g back will help them rebuild faster. The cubs have money……they don’t NEED to dump payroll

  1338. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    the cubs are looking for young talent that will take over after they wait out these terrible contracts. and theo doesnt have to carry any blame for big z or soriano, so i dont see him spending any of his chips to lay off those salaries, so i dont see him wasting garza’s value to unload anybody or cheapening his takeback with aj or swisher.

    i expect he’s looking for young talent in return for garza.

  1339. kd December 28th, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    it’s interesting that theo would even consider trading a solid #2 at a reasonable price. there probably aren’t 5 pitchers in the nl central with better stuff than garza. at 8 to 9 million bucks, he’s a bargain.

    in the absence of a montero type bat, there’s no way i’d move garza if i were theo

    than being said, from the yankees perspective, if you can get him without giving up manban or jesus, then i think you really have to consider it. as much as i like kuroda, garza is 10 years older and may be a touch better.

    and has al east experience

  1340. pat December 28th, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Being reported that Alex’s procedure was filmed to show procedure was legit and no PEDs were used.

    YES Network special?

  1341. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 28th, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    “as much as i like kuroda, garza is 10 years older and may be a touch better.

    and has al east experience”

    kd, I know you meant 10 years younger.

    So to that I say bing, bang, boom.

    Yes, yes and yes.

  1342. kd December 28th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    oops trisha,

    thanks for the correction.

  1343. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Hideki Okajima
    ——————————–
    WHY…many in Beantown are laughing

  1344. Ruby Red Sock December 28th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    WHY…many in Beantown are laughing.

    ——-

    Desperation ? ?

  1345. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Dec 28 “The Lottery Ticket”
    By Mike Axisa in Guest Columns. Tags: Joba Chamberlain

    I am not sure who took my thoughts on this & printed it, but I totally agree with this plan for Joba!

    http://riveraveblues.com/2011/.....ket-61592/

  1346. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    RayVT, stand in line. ;)

  1347. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    BTW, I really enjoy your insights on things!

  1348. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    I miss SJ’s slant on things!

  1349. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    But at the same time, I can readily see him having a development trajectory which makes it very difficult for him to grow on a team that is always looking to win. The fit is going to be difficult.

    The best thing for him would be to transition through the pen. But I don’t have much confidence that if he went to the pen he’d ever get out unless economic factors really drive that process of him needing to be in the rotation.
    ///

    Hopefully the Joba misfire has been a schoolmaster for the Yankees.

    With Rothschild having supplanted a thoroughly mediocre Eiland, I can’t imagine they would make the same mistake twice. But they earned the skepticism.

    Other than seeing Betances pitch now for two seasons at AA, I have overheard Cashman speaking casually to scouts and he was overflowing with genuine giddiness about Betances – his makeup, his stuff, his ability to adapt and willingness to learn. He discussed him with such a burst of euphoria, adding “He’s NOTHING like Brackman (hmmmm)”, that I feel cautiously optimistic it would take a lot to wrench Betances away from the Yankees, but you never know, of course. I certainly share his enthusiasm, and hope he holds on tight.

  1350. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    only if Joba really wants it, friends say going to school with him in Neb that Joba played by his rules in getting himself into shape

  1351. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    BTW as of now it looks like it carried over to the minor and major league

  1352. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Thanks, RayVT. I enjoy your presence on the blog as well. :)

  1353. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Cashman didn’t overpay for Wilson, Darvish, Kuroda, Buehrle etc. What makes anyone think he will for Garza ? ? Just another fantasy wish is all.

  1354. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    sj’s a tweeter now, but id expect him back at times come springtime.

  1355. kd December 28th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    i agree with RayVT, via RAB, but i think the real question is what joba wants. if joba call cashman and says, “i’m a starter,” then it’s a different issue. maybe joba just wants to be a rp.

    honestly, maybe joba knows his body can’t take the stress of 200+ innings and thinks that 70+ a year is so much better for him

  1356. kd December 28th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    garza has proven he can handle the al east…

    he’s cheap, young, and a ground ball pitcher who throws 200 innings a year

    sounds like a great #3 for the pinstripes

    cc
    nova
    garza
    hughes
    noeisi

    might be the best staff in the al east

  1357. 108 stitches December 28th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Cashman isn’t interested in swapping one bad contract for another by either doing Burnett for Alfonso Soriano or Burnett for Carlos Zambrano. It solves nothing as far as team payroll is concerned. Soriano has no value to the Yankees in any way. Rothschild has a history with Zambrano but like Burnett, he keeps regressing.

  1358. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Except Epstein will demand much more than Cashman will be willing to pay in trade chips. SP is at a premium which the Yanks presently don’t want to pay.

  1359. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    In no way would the Yanks move Burnett for Zambrano. Burnett may have issues with his pitching, but, so does Zambrano. What’s more he’s a disruptive influence on the field and in the clubhouse. No way. The only way for the Cubs to move Soriano is in a 3 team deal with all three teams taking a bite of his contract.

  1360. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Zambrano keeps regressing due to his anger issues and bad attitude which result in him being suspended multiple times. He can’t progress when he isn’t on the field.

  1361. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    russelmartin55 “derniere chance..Quelqes places disponibles pour le Camp de perfectionnement :) Reserver sur le lien suivant”

    …it looses something in the translation, especially when you don’t speak french :)

  1362. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    New Thread……finally :arrow:

    ‘Rodriguez ‘fine’ after procedure in Germany; Okajima added’ —–?

  1363. mick December 28th, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    FINALLY———->>>>>>>

  1364. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    CHECK IT OUT!!!!

    …a new post!

  1365. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Woo hoo! :arrow: :!:

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