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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Rodriguez ‘fine’ after procedure in Germany; Okajima added

Posted by: sports - Posted in Misc on Dec 28, 2011 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Some Yankees news, courtesy of The Associated Press:

NEW YORK — The Yankees say star third baseman Alex Rodriguez is fine after having special treatment on his right knee and left shoulder in Germany earlier this month.
The 36-year-old Rodriguez had plasma-rich platelet injections following a recommendation from Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant. Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said today that the team gave its permission after vetting the process.
Rodriguez’s treatment was first reported by the New York Post.
Cashman says Major League Baseball and WADA have approved the procedure, and that it is also performed in the United States. The Yankees say Rodriguez went to the doctor in Germany because he’s at the top of this field.
Rodriguez had surgery on his right knee last July and saw his power drop in the second half and postseason. He played in 99 games and hit 16 home runs. He has 629 career homers.
Cashman says Rodriguez is “100 percent” right now and that there are “no red flags” going into spring training. Cashman says he expects Rodriguez to be able to play every day.
The Yankees also said they’ve reached agreement with 37-year-old lefty Hideki Okajima for a non-roster invite to spring training. Once a staple of the Boston bullpen, he spent most of last year in Triple-A for the Red Sox. The Yankees envision him as a possible lefty specialist.

 
 

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1,745 Responses to “Rodriguez ‘fine’ after procedure in Germany; Okajima added”

  1. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    i feel like i just woke up and got out of the shower, all clean and fresh…

  2. m December 28th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    36? 37? :(

  3. blake December 28th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Who is “sports”

  4. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    Posted by ‘sports’ ? What happened to Chad’s buddies ? ?

  5. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Alex about to have a Colon first half at the very least? :D

  6. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    ‘The Yankees envision him as a possible lefty specialist’.

    ==============

    Does this mean he is headed down the path of Marte and Feliciano ? ? Nothin lost on a flyer ml deal I suppose.

  7. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    It is difficult as a Yankee Fan to have to acknowledge we are picking up a Red Sox castoff / scrub. Here’s to hoping Cabral beats him out.

  8. exiledintampa December 28th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Cabral is also a Red Sox Castoff From the rule 5 draft.

  9. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    non roster invitee…’nuff said…

  10. Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    If a guy can help the Yanks win ballgames, I couldn’t care less where they’ve come from.

  11. exiledintampa December 28th, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    agreed

  12. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    So was Wade Boggs, Roger Clemens, etc

  13. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    boggs was good….

  14. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    damon and sparky lyle were good…

  15. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    & Damon!!!

  16. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    clemmens was….well, clemmens was a roid ragin’ lying sack of crap, but her performed well…

  17. Tom in N.J. December 28th, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    Some dude named Ruth sort of helped get this whole Yankee thing rolling…

  18. m December 28th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....at-of-2011

    Some writer writing that Crawford is the GOAT of the year.

  19. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    I didn’t mind a few Boston castoffs named Babe Ruth, Sad Sam Jones, Herb Pennock, Red Ruffing, Sparky Lyle, Roger Clemens or Wade Boggs. Those guys won’t match my list, but, if they help win 2 or 3 games each, they’re worth it.

  20. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    …guy named ruth….bet he got a ton of crap about that growing up….LOL…like ‘boy named suu!”

  21. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    sorry i think its actually suh…

  22. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Clemens, Ruth, Damon and Boggs weren’t scrubs when they came to NY. Okajima is a scrub / castoff.

  23. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    clemmens, ruth, damon and boggs also werent non-roster invitees with no guarantee of even making the team

  24. Irreverent Discourse December 28th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    CHoooooooooooooooooooooo-kajima.

    Uhg.

  25. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Heyman, as always is a jerk.

    JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
    #yanks had their dr. & mlb involved. german dr. assured no banned substances. so nothing shd go wrong. of course, it is arod

  26. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    I didn’t say they were scrubs and neither did anyone else. In fact I made that point. these guys are minor league fillers unless they’re effective and needed. get that wad of crap out of your diapers.

  27. Gary December 28th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Cashman says Rodriguez is “100 percent” right now and that there are “no red flags” going into spring training. Cashman says he expects Rodriguez to be able to play every day.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Like to think that is the case, but I’m not sure. There are so many issues with the human knee and other issues that develop as a result of the procedures used to go in there and repair it. Sometime it gets chronic especially if arthritis sets in. Given the wear and tear of a daily baseball player, I think it will be a nag to him given all the demands put on them running, hitting, and fielding. Hopeful he can make it through the season without any reoccurances, I doubt he can be out there everyday. He may well need a day off often.

  28. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    No kiddin gramps ?

  29. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Gary December 28th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Good points and just think how many more years we get to think those same thoughts.

  30. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    No kiddin gramps ?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Idiots like you make it sound like they’re replacing Robertson and Rivera. Not every player NYYs pick up is great and they’re not all trash. Hell, on here, if they aren’t stud superstars, jerks act like they’re useless.

  31. austinmac December 28th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    I think the appropriate line is external sources to heal a body is difficult. If an athlete has an objective injury such as a tear, why should it be wrong to inject the area with whatever promotes healing? Medicine regularly puts such things into our bodies? Wouldn’t such an injection only affect the injured area? It wouldn’t seem an unfair advantage to strengthen a cartilage so it can fully perform.

    I recognize some will try to stretch the point and claim many drugs for many reasons, but why restrict medical science from doing what it takes to fix an injury?

    I may be way off and would listen to anyone setting me straight.

  32. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Cashman building depth and options for that lefty specialist. What’s not to like about a minor league deal with an invite to ST.

    I care less where he came from. If he makes the team, great. If not, no harm no foul. Is he Sean Marshall? No, but he just got traded, so obviously we didn’t fit as trade partners.

    Next.

  33. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Lokk into the mirror really hard gramps. You are nothing here but another poster. One who has no life living in front of his keyboard 24/7.

  34. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    sb.. Look….oh well.

  35. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Okijima hasn’t been good since his 1st year with the sox. I wouldn’t even expect him to make the team, he’s below average at best. Not even looking at his numbers, every time I saw him in his last year with them he was getting pounded. The league caught up to his weird/deceptive delivery. Maybe he can be a LOOGY but I doubt it.
    I say give Manny B. his innings in AAA and by August he can be the Loogy for the stretch run. In an ideal that’s what I’d like.

  36. mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Idiots like you
    ===========
    Oh the hate this guy brings…

  37. mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    the internet tough guy…

  38. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Okajima seems to have had more than a good rookie year. He’s had one bad season, unless you care to count his 7 games last year. Of course, on here, small sample sizes carry a lot of weight.

  39. blake December 28th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 4m Josh Reddick goes to Oakland as part of this deal.

    Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 4m The Red Sox have acquired Andrew Bailey from Oakland… Details to come.

    What the heck Beane

  40. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Buster_ESPN
    The Red Sox have acquired Andrew Bailey from Oakland… Details to come. Josh Reddick goes to Oakland as part of this deal.

  41. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
    Lokk into the mirror really hard gramps. You are nothing here but another poster. One who has no life living in front of his keyboard 24/7.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    yet, here you are again..with yet another SN, but, I have no life?

  42. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    the internet tough guy…

    =======

    Nothing new, being alone brings out the best in some……….:-)

  43. blake December 28th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Better be more than Reddick going

  44. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
    Okijima hasn’t been good since his 1st year with the sox. I wouldn’t even expect him to make the team, he’s below average at best. Not even looking at his numbers, every time I saw him in his last year with them he was getting pounded. The league caught up to his weird/deceptive delivery. Maybe he can be a LOOGY but I doubt it.
    I say give Manny B. his innings in AAA and by August he can be the Loogy for the stretch run. In an ideal that’s what I’d like.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    How is Banuelos working out of the bullpen in the minors going to prepare him to start?

  45. mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    he likes to dish it, but runs and hides when he gets dissed, take it as a compliment he lowers himself to talk to you, he’s internet royalty, a legend in his own mind. the internet enforcer, bah humbug!

  46. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    I say give Manny B. his innings in AAA and by August he can be the Loogy for the stretch run. In an ideal that’s what I’d like.

    I’d rather our top pitching prospect and supposed next ace not be brought up as a LOOGY

  47. m December 28th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Well, Bailey makes them better. I doubt he’ll be as good as Papelbon was for them. Papelbon couldn’t get out Gardner and blew the last nail in the coffin game, but he was very good for them in the postseason.

  48. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Never have addressed you ever, until you started in today with your foul attitude, calling people idiots.It must be unfortunate to be in your shoes, luck of the draw huh ?

    BTW, only one screen name for this poster. Act your age now, not your shoe size.

  49. mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Bosox compiled relievers last off season as well, where did that get em?

  50. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Better be more than Reddick going
    ————————————
    I would think the A’s would at least want a pitcher back in return.

    Did anyone mention El Tiante-Luis Tiant?

  51. tomingeorgia December 28th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    If you don’t want to be called an idiot, don’t be one.

  52. blake December 28th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 1m Ryan Sweeney to the Red Sox as part of the Bailey deal.

    There has to be more than Reddick going in this deal.

  53. Yank 97 December 28th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    JonHeymanCBS #cubs seem to be prioritizing young starting pitching in garza talks. rival exec: #yankees & #bluejays have what itd take

  54. Yank 97 December 28th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Buster_ESPN Ryan Sweeney to the Red Sox as part of the Bailey deal.

  55. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    How is Banuelos working out of the bullpen in the minors going to prepare him to start?
    —————————————————–
    the AAA season is over in late August, what’s wrong with letting him start there all season and call him to have a role in the BP? I didn’t say have him relieve in the minors.
    Rays did that with Price, it’s pretty standard I thought.

  56. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    This probably sends Madson to the Angels for half of what Papelbon got

  57. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    I like the term a**clown, seems to fit. :lol:

  58. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    JF, who cares how he’s bought up when it’s late in the season. Give him the ML exp, his innings would probably be close to topped out anyways by then, this way he can still contribute later in the ML season.

  59. blake December 28th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Madson may take a 1 year deal and try again next year.

  60. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Buster_ESPN Oakland also gets Miles Head, 20-year-old 3B, and Raul Alcantera, 19-year-old pitcher.

  61. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Hideki had 3 good years when he was signed for the 2007 season then fizzled in 2010 and pitched only 8 innings in the majors last year. Since it’s a minor league deal, no problema!

    Attaching an earlier article on him and what might have caused his decline.

    Is It Okie Dokie for Okajima?
    January 3rd, 2011 by Mike Silver

    http://firebrandal.com/2011/01.....r-okajima/

  62. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation

  63. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    JF, who cares how he’s bought up when it’s late in the season. Give him the ML exp, his innings would probably be close to topped out anyways by then, this way he can still contribute later in the ML season

    I would hope the Yankees care about how he is brought up, regardless of time, because they have not successfully developed any good starting pitchers and Banuelos is one of their best chances at it. Why potentially ruin our #1 pitching prospect for some crappy LOOGY job???

  64. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation

    Bard to the rotation is good for the Yankees, he stinks.

  65. AZ88 December 28th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    theo sold his 4th outfielder high (reddick)

    while cashman continues to overvalue his 4th OF (gardner)

    sigh

  66. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation

    Bard to the rotation is good for the Yankees, he stinks.
    ——————————————
    OK whatever you say…..

  67. Benny Blanco December 28th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Bard will not be able to give the redsox more than 160 innings. he’s been in the bullpen since 2009.

  68. blake December 28th, 2011 at 5:09 pm

    Id let Bard set up and Melancon throw the 7th……and sign a Saunders or.somebody for the rotation……or Kuroda

  69. AZ88 December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    “nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation”

    they also still have all their chips for Garza – Middlebrooks, Runado, Brandon Jacobs, Lavernway, etc.

  70. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    Oscar Madison
    —————————-
    you WCYF….boy I miss him

  71. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    The league really should just contract the Oakland Athletics. Andrew Bailey made .465M this past season. Sweeney was a salary dump-made 1.4M last season. Highest 2012 salaries Fuentes 5M, Balfour 4M, Suzuki 5M.

  72. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    I would hope the Yankees care about how he is brought up, regardless of time, because they have not successfully developed any good starting pitchers and Banuelos is one of their best chances at it. Why potentially ruin our #1 pitching prospect for some crappy LOOGY job???
    ————————————————————————————–

    It worked with Price didn’t it? He came up late and was used out of the BP all the way to the WS. It doesn’t have to be LOOGY, but it seems like that’s the biggest need with Mo and D-Rob, plus Sori covering late innings. They need someone to get out tough lefty’s.

    If you can explain how this could potentially ruin him I’d like to hear it. Again, I’m not suggesting moving him out of the rotation for this, only when his innings are approaching the limit and/or AAA season ends.

  73. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Its always about the final analysis by a GM of the talent in a rival organization. We may feel that boston has a crappy minor league system, but evidently Bean found enough to like.

    Cashman is a hoarder. And for now, I think it’s appropriate.

  74. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    OK whatever you say…..

    Bard has a career 7 ERA as a starter with a 9 bb/9. You can even look it up!

  75. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    OK whatever you say…..

    Bard has a career 7 ERA as a starter with a 9 bb/9. You can even look it up!
    —————————–
    don’t need to you just told me

  76. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    This probably sends Madson to the Angels for half of what Papelbon got

    =====

    Why would Madson go to the Angels when they already have Walden as their closer??

  77. Tyler December 28th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    AZ88 December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
    “nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation”

    they also still have all their chips for Garza – Middlebrooks, Runado, Brandon Jacobs, Lavernway, etc.
    ————————————————–

    If the Yanks really want Garza, they can easily top this package. Theo should know this better than anybody.

  78. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    That would be a no. I like alot of his baseball thoughts. Where has he been?

  79. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    If you can explain how this could potentially ruin him I’d like to hear it. Again, I’m not suggesting moving him out of the rotation for this, only when his innings are approaching the limit and/or AAA season ends.

    It can ruin him by turning him from a starter pitching on a schedule to a reliever pitching at Girardi’s whim, it can turn him into a reliever permanently because the Yankees have no clue how to handle this kind of transition its clear. Banuelos needs 150+ innings in the minors next year. He needs to start.

    The Yankees tried swapping back and forth in the BP with Joba and Hughes and it sucked. I want them to try something different. Especially for someone that isn’t a typical pitcher. Manny is a smaller guy, who hasn’t thrown a lot of innings, let him start.

  80. blake December 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Billy Beane is dumb

  81. m December 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    This is the Boston OF after the trade:

    Carl Crawford
    Jacoby Ellsbury
    Ryan Kalish
    Che-Hsuan Lin
    Darnell McDonald

  82. Irreverent Discourse December 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Bailey is pretty good if he can stay healthy, he’s only managed to pitch half of the last 2 seasons though.

  83. mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    I like the term a**clown, seems to fit. :lol:
    ===============
    it’s ok to talk about him , he’s long gone (oops now he’ll show up) likes to start up then hide,
    reminds me of an old troll we used to know…

  84. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Sweeney in the OF, M.

  85. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    How can the A’s ever hope to compete. Entire OF of Willingham, Crisp, DeJesus-Gone. DH-Matsui gone. Bullpen lefty Breslow -gone. Closer Bailey-gone. 18 wins from starters Cahill and Gonzalez-gone.

    They have one exciting player -rookie Jemile Weeks and that’s it.

  86. Tyler December 28th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
    The league really should just contract the Oakland Athletics. Andrew Bailey made .465M this past season. Sweeney was a salary dump-made 1.4M last season. Highest 2012 salaries Fuentes 5M, Balfour 4M, Suzuki 5M.
    ———————————————–

    Unless Beane knows something about Bailey’s injuries that nobody else does, this trade seems awful. Beane always does this. He has a good talented piece and will immediately trade him away for some shiny new prospects. It’s a continual cycle that leads to 3rd place finishes in the west.

  87. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    The new penny pinching Yankees need to actually hit on development with 1 of Betances/Banuelos. No silly bullpen stints or inning killing moves. Just let him pitch and actually develop a good pitcher, please.

  88. m December 28th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Thanks, JF. Didn’t realize Sweeney was going to the Sox. Thought he was another jewel of the Sox system. ;)

  89. Tyler December 28th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    m December 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
    This is the Boston OF after the trade:

    Carl Crawford
    Jacoby Ellsbury
    Ryan Kalish
    Che-Hsuan Lin
    Darnell McDonald
    ———————————–

    Probably will go Crawford in LF, Ellsbury in CF, Sweeney for the time being in RF.

    I do expect Crawford to be better next year (it would be tough for him not to be even a little bit better). Ellsbury is a good player. Sweeney was a guy I always liked but he’s far from an allstar. He’ll be ok. I can kind of see him being a pain in the butt for the Yanks.

  90. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Why would Madson go to the Angels when they already have Walden as their closer??
    —————————-
    Because rookie Jordan Walden had 10 blown saves??

  91. kd December 28th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    sweeny is a light hitting, defensively challenged outfielder. it’s a downgrade over reddick.

    essentially it’s bailey for two unknowns

    don’t get what the a’s are doing…

  92. mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Unless Beane knows something about Bailey’s injuries that nobody else does, this trade seems awful. Beane always does this.
    =================
    Trying to measure up to the portrayal of him in the movie Money Ball which was a misnomer as they had Tejada and others.

  93. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    That would be a no. I like alot of his baseball thoughts. Where has he been?
    ———————————————–
    maybe Gramps ran him out of here

  94. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    It can ruin him by turning him from a starter pitching on a schedule to a reliever pitching at Girardi’s whim, it can turn him into a reliever permanently because the Yankees have no clue how to handle this kind of transition its clear. Banuelos needs 150+ innings in the minors next year. He needs to start.

    The Yankees tried swapping back and forth in the BP with Joba and Hughes and it sucked. I want them to try something different. Especially for someone that isn’t a typical pitcher. Manny is a smaller guy, who hasn’t thrown a lot of innings, let him start.
    ————————————————————————–
    I’d counter that with Joba only having 80 minor league innings total for his career and Hughes making a huge innings leap in back to back years. Neither would be the case with Manny. I get what you’re saying, it’s good to be cautious with such a talent and he is more slightly built, but why can other teams pull it off?

  95. m December 28th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    Tyler,

    I think there’s a better chance that Crawford bounces back than Ellsbury repeats his season. Still gives them two good players, but I wonder how Crawford and the fans will deal with the inevitable slumps that ball players go through. It’ll be a rough go if he gets off to a bad start.

  96. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    you WCYF….boy I miss him

    ——–

    That’s really creepy.

  97. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Jordan Walden wasn’t a lock when he pitch the 9th last year for sure

  98. Tyler December 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
    Unless Beane knows something about Bailey’s injuries that nobody else does, this trade seems awful. Beane always does this.
    =================
    Trying to measure up to the portrayal of him in the movie Money Ball which was a misnomer as they had Tejada and others.
    ———————————

    It almost seems like he’s trying to shore up his ego by making trades like this. Trying to hit a homerun and come out looking like a genius. The thing is that he will trade off guys like Bailey but then sign Matt Holliday to a contract with the full intent of trading him at the deadline. They got basically nothing back for Holliday also… he really has been a terrible gm since those consecutive AL west crowns which can’t be all attributed to him.

  99. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    LGY December 28th, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    you WCYF….boy I miss him

    ——–

    That’s really creepy.
    ———————————–
    telling me

  100. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    Because rookie Jordan Walden had 10 blown saves??

    ========

    OK, but he also saved 32 with and under 3 ERA. Less than a hit per IP and more than a K per IP. Not bad for a rookie closer.

  101. Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    WCDB was banned, something that was LONG overdue.

    He has since come back a couple of times only making a quick comment and that’s it.

    Good riddance.

  102. Tyler December 28th, 2011 at 5:26 pm

    m-

    I’m with you on that. I think that was Ellsbury’s career year. I also don’t think he can stay healthy like he did last year.

    I actually feel kind of bad for Crawford (although he did take the money to play there). That’s a guy with a huge target on his back and he really doesn’t seem like a bad guy. He came off the best out of all of them in their collapse last year… he really owned up to his struggles unlike Gonzalez who blamed every factor possible besides himself and the team.

  103. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    What is up fellas!!

    Boy alot of chippiness today.

    I cant remember a winter with more anxiety. Not because the Yanks arent good and havnt made a trade, but becuase we’re not used to having the Yankees act like theyr the Pirates and Royals. Where they sign a couple santas helpers and call it a day.

    Not thrilled about the Bailey signing. It sure looks like they are starting the season with a lot of bullpen depth. But as my friend GB and others have pointed out. They had the same thing last year going into spring training.

    The good news!!

    Yankees just acquired
    1. A 100% Arod the T3 model
    2. A LEGIT DH in Monstero.
    3. CC for life.
    4. Garcia for no farm.
    5. A Japanese utility guy for no prospects.
    6. Jobamania for the second half sprint.
    7. The Killer B’s for insurance.
    8. Nunez for a full year.
    9. Changing the bench and DH has made the team younger. Which is a good thing.
    10. Re upt Stealth. The one cool cat in the front office.

    Not bad.
    Having said that. Can Cash please feed the Yankee fans with a new years gift. Just because we have toys, doesnt mean we wont like a new one.

  104. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    LOL! Agreed!

  105. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    ? If one is banned how do they come back and make a comment ? Just askin.

  106. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    I’d counter that with Joba only having 80 minor league innings total for his career and Hughes making a huge innings leap in back to back years. Neither would be the case with Manny. I get what you’re saying, it’s good to be cautious with such a talent and he is more slightly built, but why can other teams pull it off?

    Ok but Joba also pitched 100+ innings back to back in college + winterball after he was drafted. David Price also had a 130 inning season in college. Manny hasn’t had a full season in the minors yet. The appendectomy really hurt him. Why potentially waste a talent like him for some crappy loogy innings? He isnt going to be the elite setup guy we have Robertson Mo and Soriano. Its not a need. Dont waste Manny B on something we really do not need at all.

    I’m not going to say there is a right way to develop a pitching prospect, but I just dont want to see Manny in the pen. It sucked with Joba and Hughes I wanna see something different.

  107. m December 28th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Tyler,

    I linked an espn story calling him the GOAT of the year. While it’s unfair to say he was responsible for the collapse (the writer doesn’t actually say that), he did fall off the cliff and he did have some unusually bad outfield play. It’s kind of sad and mean, but when you think about it, past GOATs were actually less worthy than Crawford. That’s how bad his year was.

  108. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Sorry.
    11. A healthy Hughes for a change.
    12. Noesi to take Burnetts spot in the rotation.

  109. Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    ? If one is banned how do they come back and make a comment ? Just askin.

    ———

    Only the name is banned. Anyone banned can come back under a different name.

    He chose “West Coast Yankee.”

  110. mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    maybe Gramps ran him out of here
    =====================
    gramps is licking trishas cookies off the screen, yum!
    love his sexual innuendos

  111. kd December 28th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    glove kills me:

    Fake Peter Gammons @FakePeteGammons 1m

    Andrew Bailey is not only smart, he’s sexy. There I said it. This is Peter Gammons.

  112. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Funny & True! LOL!

  113. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    RayVT…..tough going here in Ct & Ma the last 6 months from the weather, Tornado,Tropical Storm, Winter Storm in Oct and that wind that came thru last night…..

  114. Tyler December 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    m-

    He definitely did perform a lot worse than that contract would expect. The thing that was most puzzling to me was the outfield play. He seemed to get to everything in Tampa… that last blooper in Baltimore that fell in front of him pretty much summed up his season. Hopefully he keeps slumping though haha!

  115. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    # Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    The new penny pinching Yankees need to actually hit on development with 1 of Betances/Banuelos. No silly bullpen stints or inning killing moves. Just let him pitch and actually develop a good pitcher, please.

    —————————

    Won’t be easy remember this is the same ball club that wasn’t going to “mess up” Hughes like they “messed up Joba”

  116. AZ88 December 28th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    “11. A healthy Hughes for a change.
    12. Noesi to take Burnetts spot in the rotation.”

    unfortunately, I wouldnt bet on either of those things lol

  117. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Hey mel. Good to see you. Thoughts on where Howard ends up? How lucky are the Lakers that
    Lopez broke his foot? There were rumors that it was a for sure thing that Howard was headed to the Nets in a couple days before Lopez got hurt.

    Would you do a Gasol and Bynum for Howard?

  118. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Don’t know that computer stuff that well. TY

  119. mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    I wouldn’t bet against Noesi taking AJ’s spot.

  120. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    WOW! You need to come South to the Carolinas! It has been unusually warm here.

  121. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Are the Red Sox now maxed out and finished?
    Buchholz, Bard, Beckett, Lester, Miller, Aceves in the starting rotation[ one of last 2 go back to relief.]

    Has the competition for Kuroda’s services now come down to one team?
    Play for the Yankees for less or go back to Japan and play for a lot less?

  122. Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    That is not a pretty visual.

  123. yanks 27 December 28th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    The new penny pinching Yankees need to actually hit on development with 1 of Betances/Banuelos. No silly bullpen stints or inning killing moves. Just let him pitch and actually develop a good pitcher, please.

    ————–

    Yep – no longer is it a luxury for them to hit on them. They have to have one of them become a stud too.

    Gotta get under the $178 threshold by 2014 or the franchise will have to be contracted and moved to San Antonio….

  124. joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    WOW! You need to come South to the Carolinas! It has been unusually warm here.
    ——————————
    I would but wife won’t…..

  125. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    It’s a long season and the best SP the Yanks have at the end of the year will be lined up to start 1 thru 3 in the Post Season unless of course 4 SPs look great!

  126. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Fair enough JF…

  127. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    He chose “West Coast Yankee.”

    =====

    How original. Almost as original as me kicking out the 27 after my name(Clean record for the record. Never had my hand slapped on this blog). Just wanted to shorten it. Thought of S, but mel beat me to the letter names and did not want to make her think im a biter or anything.

  128. stuart a December 28th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Oakland had to get more for Bailey!!if not Beane has lost it. Josh Reddick is a question mark……

  129. blake December 28th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    For all the talk about how bad the Sox are…….if they went out and signed Kuroda now their pitching staff would be very good……they still wouldn’t have a lot of rotation depth….but 1-4 they’d be as good as anybody if healthy and they have a lot more flexibility in their pen.

    If I were Cherington…..Id sign Kuroda and Colon …..and put Aceves and Bard back in the pen.

  130. 4time December 28th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    Crawford-Ellsbury-Sweeney has to be the best OF in baseball defensively now if Craw can get back to his previous form

  131. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:41 pm

    joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    LOL! I understand! Maybe FL then! LOL! I lived a couple years near Tampa & it was quite nice in a different way! I love the seasons albeit mild ones in the Carolinas.

  132. RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Good Night Everyone!

  133. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Who cares if we get over the 178 threshold. Worse comes to worst, we can just file bk and buy all the free agents possible. The Rangers did it.

    I think Burnett get traded before the season gets started and Noesi kicks the door down.

  134. Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    SoS-

    Welcome back.

    Might I add as possible good news:
    Swisher playing for a new contract.
    Teixeira working to regain his stroke from the left side.
    and the most important to duplicate your comment-adding El Monstero to the offense!

  135. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Thanks YT! Good point. Name one x that Cashman sat on his hands and it ended up biting him in the but(Gagne. Crawford, Zito etc)? He will get us to the promise land one way or another.

    If anyone sees Nicksf. Tell him its on!! California vs. my Longhorns!! For a year of bragging rights. Between Nick and myself of course. Hope they know that this game counts!!

  136. Triple Short of a Cycle December 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    Name one x that Cashman sat on his hands and it ended up biting him in the but(Gagne. Crawford, Zito etc

    ————————————————–

    Dan Haren

  137. stuart a December 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    sweeny is a horrible hitter, not bad but horrible… he makes Melky’s worse season seem like mickey mantle.

    Sweeny is a defensive replacement or less………

  138. blake December 28th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Don’t understand this deal from Oakland’s side at all……they sold low on Bailey. Beane would have been better off keeping him and trading him at the deadline……unless he was afraid he’d get hurt again. He got nothing impact in that deal……

  139. austinmac December 28th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    The Red Sox making making moves to improve the team. What a concept. They have fixed their bullpen leaving Bard and Aceves to start. I bet they add another starter and put Bard back in the pen.

    The Yankees are killing them with patience.

  140. Yank 97 December 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    “The Yankees are killing them with patience.”

    It’s ok… Phil Hughes will win 20 games, Nova will learn how to strike guys out, and Burnett still has nasty stuff.

  141. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    and the most important to duplicate your comment-adding El Monstero to the offense!
    ///

    Yup. Right up there with CC re-signing.

  142. blake December 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Bard will be the set up man…..I don’t believe for a second they’ll put him in the rotation……maybe Aceves…..but nit Bard. They’ll add a starter at some point.

  143. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Now the negatives for Boston.
    1. Elf is getting shorter.
    2. Youk is getting uglier by the minute and older. His body is catching up to his grill.
    3. Ortiz ran out of shakes and will have a steep decline in production this year.
    4. They wont have a fill in ala Redick bat over .300 this season.
    5. the greatest closer to ever live is gone. said Peter
    6. Valentine will get in a fight with Becket and Youk before the season is over and it will
    kill team chemistry.
    7. Beckett is getting LARGER and will have back problems trying to carry all that weight.
    8. Elsbury wont have Ortiz shakes either.
    9. Crawford will decide to look like Ortiz becuase there is no room for speed in left field. So why not?
    10. They are the Sox. They will figure out a way to implode.

    Let me know if I missed anything.

  144. blake December 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Unless Baileys medicals are a big concern…….I really can’t believe Beane made that deal. The Sox sold high on Reddick………..the As sold low on Bailey

  145. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Yank 97 December 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
    “The Yankees are killing them with patience.”

    It’s ok… Phil Hughes will win 20 games, Nova will learn how to strike guys out, and Burnett still has nasty stuff.
    ///

    You’re being facetious, but these three outcomes aren’t out of the question. Hughes, like many pitchers who have had the second-year blues after first full year of starting, may be back on track. He did win 18 games, no reason why a renewed Hughes, together with a lethal lineup and a shutdown bullpen, and some good fortune, not win 20.

    Nova’s added a slider, no reason he can’t whiff more hitters. Burnett is always unpredictable. He sure was nasty in Game 4.

    Glass half full? Maybe. But like I said, ain’t out of the question.

    Cheers, folks.

  146. Melkmanisinhotlanta December 28th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Arod is in a predicament when he has to get an infusion to help a bad knee. The last 7 years are going to create a new definition for horrible long term contracts.

  147. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle December 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
    Name one x that Cashman sat on his hands and it ended up biting him in the but(Gagne. Crawford, Zito etc

    ————————————————–

    Dan Haren

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    How do you know that Cashman “just sat on his hands” on a Haren deal? How do you know he didn’t refuse to meet a ridiculous asking price? You don’t.

  148. kd December 28th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    blake you’re 100% right. gotta be long term medial concerns

    if bailey’s healthy, the a’s got fleeced. beane is not the gm people think he is.

    it’s going to be hard for him to build a winner making trades like this

  149. Joe from Long Island December 28th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Yeah, look at all the players the Red Sox have picked up over the years – Smoltz, Penny, Jenks, Crawford…. We’ve seen the low risk/high reward stategy, the run prevention strategy….. And a year ago they were the undisputed champions of the off-season, a guaranteed team for the ages…..

    Yeah, they were a team for the ages, all right. Just like they’re guaranteed to be a success in 2012. Just keep collecting the names.

  150. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Cant see Alex playing out the contract if his hip turns out to be Bo-ish these next couple years. He wont roll up to the plate in a wheel chair. So its either his hip has recovered or the gloves are hung.

    Speaking of gloves. Watched the movie Warrior last night. Great movie!! Makes me think I can withstand someone choking me out and pounding me repeatedly. Alot like the Rocky movies.

  151. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    There is absolutely zero pressure on Brian Cashman to make an effort to improve this ballclub.

  152. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    Hindsight is 20/20.
    Haren was not having that good of a season with the Dbacks. I believe he was giving up the long ball like it was batting practice as well. No one would have fathamed
    he would get back to his old ways. Besides, there is the asking price from the Yanks and everyone else. They might have wanted the killer b’s , Montero and Cervelli. Ok not Cervelli.

  153. 4time December 28th, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    “There is absolutely zero pressure on Brian Cashman to make an effort to improve this ballclub.”

    Honestly, the Steinbros selling the team might be the best thing for us. They’ve become complacent and only care about making money. The Yankees have built such an empire that they don’t even need to be anything more than a team in the hunt for the playoffs to get TV ratings, licensing deals, packed stadiums, etc.

    The Yanks have become like any other franchise now – just be competitive and whatever else happens is a bonus. His attachment to Hughes and Burnett and his prospects is crazy.

  154. NYYanksFan December 28th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Bo Jackson and A-Rod had 2 different hip injuries.

  155. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    Bret,

    Unfortunately, this is the way they do business now. Strive for competitiveness, not excellence.

  156. m December 28th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    SoS,

    Dude. It was a lucky break (sorry, Lopez). I’m hoping the Magic are bad this season and that Dwight will demand a trade. I would love to get rid of Bynum, but keep Gasol. Maybe, it’s better if he reaches FA.

  157. Melkmanisinhotlanta December 28th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Mark Zuckerberg will buy the NYY once Facebook goes public…. mark my words.

  158. m December 28th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    if Bailey is healthy you could argue that only Mariano Rivera rates better among AL closers”

    “For the A’s, it’s a fair tradeoff for a closer with a balky elbow who is about to get expensive.”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....or-red-sox

  159. Joe from Long Island December 28th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Because, churning the names is all that counts. Not ability, nor talent evaluation, nor price and consequences of actions. Just churn and move the names. Like a video game for teenagers.

  160. Triple Short of a Cycle December 28th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    How do you know that Cashman “just sat on his hands” on a Haren deal? How do you know he didn’t refuse to meet a ridiculous asking price? You don’t.

    —————————————–

    The deal was Joba/Robertson, Nova and 2 scrubs

  161. kd December 28th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    120 games a year from arod and the yankees would be happy?

    man, that’s tough. i could see arod walk away. i really don;t think money would make a difference if he’s hitting 200 with 10 bombs in 80 games a year

  162. m December 28th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    In hindsight, I wouldn’t trade Robertson and Nova for Haren.

  163. Melkmanisinhotlanta December 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Looks like the Sux got a great deal. Once again, they will lead the AL EAST lol

  164. Triple Short of a Cycle December 28th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Hindsight is 20/20.
    Haren was not having that good of a season with the Dbacks. I believe he was giving up the long ball like it was batting practice as well. No one would have fathamed
    he would get back to his old ways. Besides, there is the asking price from the Yanks and everyone else. They might have wanted the killer b’s , Montero and Cervelli. Ok not Cervelli.

    —————————————————————-

    Nor Montero or the killer B’s were in that deal. Actually his peripherals were pretty similar to past seasons. The home runs were an anomaly. What was more likely Haren who has been a top 10 pitcher for years all of a sudden losing it at age 28 or 29 or just a poor couple of months that were begging for a correction

  165. Triple Short of a Cycle December 28th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    In hindsight, I wouldn’t trade Robertson and Nova for Haren.

    —————————————————–

    It was Robertson or Joba

  166. Melkmanisinhotlanta December 28th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Arod would never walk away from his big contract. He has no honor and will collect his check while dating hot starlets.

  167. m December 28th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    What year was that, Triple?

  168. REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Haren was a gross miscalculation of resources. They thought they had “too much” pitching and didn’t want to tie up a rotation spot and $$ in Haren when they had their sights on Lee.

    In the end, the rotation collapsed after the ASB and they didn’t get Lee either. The double-whammy. When opportunities like Haren come along, you have to jump at it, not wait for the next best thing that will never come. Otherwise, you’ll end up either giving up Montero+ for the likes of Gio Gonzalez or Latos, or end up putting undeserving trust in guys like Hughes and Burnett to pitch well.

  169. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    What is this team going to do with Montero if Arod needs to be DH sooner than later? They’re locking up Martin long term. That’s a given.

  170. Eroc December 28th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Even if they asked for Betances for Haren, that would still have been a fair deal

    This winter, a Betances-centered deal won’t get you anything half as good as Haren.

  171. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    mel,
    I dont think Howard last through January let alone free agency. They know hes not coming back and will get something for him. I think it will take both Bynum and Gasol to land him. Assuming
    Stearn doesnt vito it. I dont think that makes the Lakers better though. Following OKC and the Spurs this year. Last time there was a shortened season SAS won the title. Dejavu? Who do you fear this year?

  172. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Betances will be a reliever – hopefully a good one.

  173. Eroc December 28th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Bret,

    Now that A-Rod’s records and stuff mean nothing because of the steroids, their investment in him isn’t nearly as significant. They’re going to have to treat it like a sunken cost and let him play 3B and when he can’t, he gets the day off.

  174. Triple Short of a Cycle December 28th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    What year was that, Triple?

    ————————————

    2010

  175. Yank 97 December 28th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    “Betances will be a reliever – hopefully a good one.”

    Cashman called him the best pitching prospect the Yankees have ever had. He never misses an opportunity to hug a prospect.

    In ST, I’m fully expecting him to say Mason Williams reminds him of Willy Mays.

  176. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Blake-

    Evenin’

    Please explain the A’s/Sux trade from the A’s POV ?

    Kinda looks like they got screwed to me ?

  177. kd December 28th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ng-up.html

    hope the blue jays don’t get garza

  178. blake December 28th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    JIM BOWDEN JimBowdenESPNxm

    @

    The Cubs and Blue Jays continue to discuss a Matt Garza deal

  179. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Im aware that Alexs injury isnt the same as BOs. But its still a hip injury and in BOs case it never healed. If Alex continues to break down, Im telling you he wont just sit and collect checks with all the hate he will be receiving in home games. He is too sensitive to how his hometown fans think of him and no shrink will be able to help him hit the ignore button. Whos with me!

  180. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Eroc,

    I almost wonder if they paid 2.5 million on Nakajima as a hedge against Arod going down with injury and the backup infielder (Nunez) being called upon to play 3b for a long stretch. I remember when some speculated that Nakajima would be dealt or that Nunez would be dealt. If both are kept, I’m suspicious about Arod’s durability in 2012 and moving forward. What a mess.

  181. blake December 28th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    MTU,

    Really can’t explain it……other than Beane is a dummy. I don’t even like the return he got for Gio that much……

  182. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Garza to the Jays would be the perfect capstone to Cashman’s off season. What a stellar 2 year long patience plan with no end in sight.

  183. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    There is no need to give up both Gasol and Bynum

  184. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Blake-

    Thanks for tryin’.

    I don’t get it either.

    Maybe there is more to it than meets the eye.

    ;)

  185. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Please explain the A’s/Sux trade from the A’s POV ?

    ===========

    3 HOF. The only team in the MLB to have their players inducted before they even play a major league game. Ask Gammons he’ll tell you.

    Its us against the world. The Sox have every team as an affiliate but the pirates. We have the pirates. They will continue to get players like Schilling, Agon etc. for young HOFers.

  186. Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Good grief. It never fails.

    The Red Sox make a move and the usual whiners come out and piss and moan.

  187. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    SoS-

    You were a salesman.

    What’s Crapstein’s hook ?

    Does he have pictures of every GM in baseball in compromising positions ?

  188. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    blake December 28th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
    MTU,

    Really can’t explain it……other than Beane is a dummy. I don’t even like the return he got for Gio that much……

    ********

    That package leads me to believe that there’s just no way in the world Beane’s final demand on the Yankees was Montero + Banuelos + M. Williams + . We never here the counter offers. We’re always led to believe the other GM was being unreasonable.

    If Beane is so unreasonable, how did the Nats get Gio for a reasonable package and how did the Sox get Bailey for a reasonable package?

    Yet we’re supposed to believe Beane wanted us to empty the farm for Gio and we’re the one team he was being unreasonable with?

    It’s BS.

    Somebody is unreasonable for sure…and it’s not Beane.

  189. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    We will never get Garza. 3 reasons.
    1. Theo would never hand him to us.
    2. He would look terrible with a but face.
    3. He looks like he could be Pavanos long lost brother.

  190. blake December 28th, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Beane had all the leverage in this thing……he didn’t have to trade Bailey and he knew the Sox had to get a closer……and that they didn’t want to pay Madson.

    Makes very little sense unless he’s very afraid Bailey will get hurt again and his value nosedive.

    One thing the Sox have done is trade what little bench and rotation depth they did have to replace Papelbon….with Melancon and Bailey……yet to be determined if its a net gain or not.

  191. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    SoS-

    You were a salesman.

    What’s Crapstein’s hook ?

    =====

    MTU,
    Yes I was.
    Thats an easy question. Its the villian to be in Pirates of the Carrabean 6.

  192. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Kalish is supposed to be better than Reddick anyways. They sold high on Reddick. Imagine that.

  193. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    If I had to get Garza, I’d tell Theo, Garza for any four of the following, only 2 of which can be pitchers, 1 of which has to be a catcher, and 1 has to be an infielder: Noesi, Joba, Nunez, Logan, Laird, Pena, Adams, Sanchez, Cervelli, Warren, Phillips, and Mitchell.

    Montero, Romine, Williams, Banuelos, and Betances are non-starters conversationally.

  194. kd December 28th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    baily’s also a fly ball pitcher. may not translate well to fenway

  195. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    I’m sure ARod is fine.

    My parents saw him at their gym in Boise, Idaho this week. Apparently he is porking a former Ms. Galaxy that is from there.

  196. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    The AL East is gonna be one tough motha’.

    :(

  197. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Did anyone ever stop and think maybe Cashman is reloaded his fab 4?

    Posada = Montero
    Jeter = Nunez
    Pettitte = Banuelos
    Mo = Robertson/Bettinces(takes 2 to replace the real machine)

    You cant trade them if you expect another run at dynasty.

  198. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    DaSaint007

    Romine should DEFINITELY be available…he’s projected as a largely defensive catcher with little pop. Absolutely no reason to hang on to him unless the Yankees anticipate a need there. With Russell Martin around and Sanchez on his way up, there is no reason to not deal Romine.

    Its HIGHLY unlikely Garza could be had without making Banuelos or Betances available.

    People on here need to accept that.

    My opinion: Garza is not worth trading any of our top prospects for. So if Cashman can pull that off without surrendering them, kudos to him, but the odds of that are very very low.

  199. Melkmanisinhotlanta December 28th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    “My parents saw him at their gym in Boise, Idaho this week. Apparently he is porking a former Ms. Galaxy that is from there.”

    I pray that the infusion therapy wasn’t a result of the porking?

  200. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    For all the Cashman haters and him talking up prospects, find me anything he has ever said about his own players before he talked up Montero, and Dellin?

    You won’t find it, so when you start saying he is holding on to these players, maybe take a second, or hell even a minute, and think why that might be.

    It could be that the Yankees right now have as much talent, both in high end and also in depth prospects they have ever had.

    Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos are the real deal, whether you don’t want to believe it or not, it’s the truth.

    Dellin and Manny both had seasons that could be categorized as disappointments, yet they still were impressive in there own way, and they are both healthy. Do not be shocked if they both come fast if they fix their issues, and they are not big ones.

    No, they can not pitch 180 innings next year, but the Yankees do not need them to, they need them to pitch every 5 days in the minors, and get ready to possibly help down the stretch, but more importantly, to be ready for 2013.

    Behind them, Williams, Sanchez and Santana have as much talent as any other 3 players you could name for another team.

    Yankee fans need to stop and smell the roses, the team is finally allowing their own talent to possibly lead them to a new wave of championships.

    Until Brian Cashman says, I am not trying to sign Kuroda, I don’t believe it, he makes too much sense, again the only way I see it not happening, is if he can not dump A.J, and I think with the Lowe trade it showed that it can be done, it’s only a 2 year contract now, not impossible.

  201. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    porking

    ======

    Havnt heard that one in ages. Almost as long as humping. Did not know it was still cool to use.

  202. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    That was a quality trade for Boston. They dealt one guy with one year of MLB service for a quality closer.

    Only hitch is that Bailey has endured shoulder issues (or was it elbow?) over the past couple seasons, if memory serves.

    Still, he can always get spells as closer from Melancon.

    Clearly they are pegging Bard for a starting role.

  203. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    SoS,

    I like throwback options :)

  204. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    well put Jason.

  205. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    CC, Garza, Hughes, Nova, AJ would work well, allowing Banuelos another year to build up his innings and replace someone the following year.

    I’d hope Theo would say Joba, Noesi, Cervelli, and Adams. All young, energetic with lots of upside. As much as I like Joba, I think he’d thrive at Wrigley, and is affordable for a rebuilding club.

  206. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    It’s never uncool to use the word porking.

  207. pat December 28th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    A-Rod played gold glove defense in 2011 so why does everyone want to take away his glove?

    Lots of concern about the hip but he didn’t have that worked on in Germany so maybe it’s feeling great.

  208. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    It’s never uncool to use the word porking.

    =======

    Thats pretty Rad. Im bringing retro back then.

  209. Bret The Hitman December 28th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Shoulder, hip, knee, thumb, groin…

    See the pattern?

  210. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Question:

    Does anybody know if Jose Bautista can play 3rd base ?

    TIA.

  211. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Jason, I agree on most of your points, but I don’t think Banuelos is as close as many think.

    He’s still young and I doubt they’re going to rush him anymore than they rushed anyone else.

    Betances may be a bit further along and we know Montero will be with the big boys.

    I think the main idea in Cashman’s mind is to use these guys in a trade for an elite starter if such a starter becomes available. To this point, no one has and its hard to see too many teams making one available between now and spring training. Perhaps a trade deadline deal will come to fruition, but it begs the question: what team has such a starter that would make them available? Very few come to mind.

    I do, however, think it is only a matter of time before King Felix is pitching in another city. My money is on the likelihood that Cashman wants the best lot of prospects possible in case that occurs.

    Or perhaps a guy like Matt Cain if SF can’t work out an extension…maybe even Lincecum, but both of those are a lot less likely than someone like Felix. This is an OPINION people, so don’t jump on me for mentioning these guys.

  212. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    One thing about the Bailey trade, this is a guy with elbow problems, who has not pitched a full season the last 2, yes he has good #s pitching in games that never matter.

    Say what you will about Papilbum, but he helped that team win championships and pitched in big game after big game, I would not be so fast to say this is an equal trade.

    Lets see Bailey pitch in big games, and more importantly, lets see him go a season and not be shut down with elbow issues.

    When you look at that, I don’t think the trade is lopsided, teams were obviously wary of him, and so what did you expect to get back from someone teams may consider a ticking bomb, with his elbow eventually giving out.

  213. kd December 28th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    wait… but i thought that the sox had a top 5 farm system? how could they need to make trades with all of the future hall of famers waiting to put the uniform on?

  214. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Why would the cubs want a 6th inning reliever in Joba?

  215. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    DaSaint,

    Joba’s value is probably as low as its been in a long time.

    You do know he’s recovering from Tommy John surgery, right?

  216. SoS December 28th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Shoulder, hip, knee, thumb, groin…

    See the pattern?

    ========

    Uhhh can I buy a vowel? The only pattern I see is groin being bff with Porky.

    Have a good night fellas.

  217. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    I think Bailey had TJ recently. Didn’t he ?

  218. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    cherington on the extra bases blog talking about bard as a starter:

    “”Bard is going to prepare for spring training as a starter and we want to give him every chance to do that. We just need to see how things go in spring training. … We believe he can do it.”

    translation: he’s gonna be out set-up guy.

  219. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    If that was disrespectful that wasn’t my intention but Joba is a throw at this point in his career.

  220. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    Jason,

    I hear what you’re saying and agree with much of it. That said, While there’s going to be room in the rotation shortly (1 or 2 years) for at least 2 arms (Banuelos and Betances hopefully), there’s no way that all the others such as Warren, Mitchell, and Phelps will fit either in the rotation or the bullpen, as they’re projected as starters. Something has to give.

    As far as the catching situation goes, while Martin may be set for the next year or 2 – or three, his backup can only be one of Montero, Romine, or Cervelli in the short term, with Sanchez and others as starter/backup options further down the road. Again, they have to go somewhere as there’s an excess over need.

    The likes of Laird, Pena, and Adams most likely don’t have a long term role on this team, though they could be useful as utility types or even starters on some clubs (Pirates or Astros come to mind).

    And Mason Williams probably goes nowhere, as he’s projected (as was Austin Jackson) to play an important role in our long-term future OF.

    All that to say – somethings got to give. You’re right that we have some great talent pending, but with the residents at 1B, 2B, 3B, and CF, it seems that some of this talent will be moved for areas of need, sooner or later.

  221. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    bailey had TJ while at Wagner College in 2005. he missed the first 2 months of last season with a forearm strain.

  222. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 28th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    pat, I agree on ARod, although I don’t know that I’d call it “Gold Glove” defense.

    I think the main idea here is this: ARod cannot be counted on for more than maybe 120 games at 3B.

    They need to protect him…he may feel good now, but come August this guy is going to need to be handled with kid gloves if we want him to be around and effective for the full season.

  223. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Answered my own question. Yes. Bailey had TJ surgery in college.

  224. DaSaint007 December 28th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
    If that was disrespectful that wasn’t my intention but Joba is a throw at this point in his career.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Not disrespectful at all. TJ surgery is no longer regarded as career threatening, and in fact is seen as almost more beneficial to the pitcher as many have become stronger due to it. So Joba could be perceived for his upside, whether as a starter (here we go again) or as a reliever. Point is, he’s talented and affordable. He wouldn’t be the focus of a trade, but could be an important element in one.

  225. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Thanks Y’s. He also had a surgery to remove bone chips after the 2010 season.

    Maybe Beane sees him as an injury risk going forward ?

    That would explain why he would move him for the type of haul he got.

  226. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    “That would explain why he would move him for the type of haul he got.”

    See for that return I think he would have been better off waiting and allowing Bailey to try and re-establish value……he coukd always trade him at the deadline.

  227. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    MTU, Bailey I believe had chips removed in 10, and then missed the beginning of last season with forearm tightness. I don’t believe he ever had tj. Correct me if I am wrong someone.

    The Mad Prince, I hear you on Manny, but I do believe both he and Dellin are very close, at least in terms of being able to pitch in the majors. They both have issues they need to fix, Dellin it is all his mechanics, and throwing all his pitches. With Manny it’s learning to trust his stuff, and not nibble with two strikes, he can overpower guys, but sometimes he will waste pitches when he does not need to.

    In his case it’s a situation where he gained that extra power, and I don’t think last year he was comfortable in that fact and just trusting it enough. I think it is also very possible he also will get back some of his great fastball command which was also lacking a little bit last year.

    Dellin it’s all about not rushing, and just repeating his mechanics, for those of us who have seen him when he’s right, it’s hard not be excited about him I don’t believe neither one of them is far from finding their grooves, might it take another full year to get there, yes it might, but with arms this talented, once they find it, it will be fun to watch.

  228. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    “If I had to get Garza, I’d tell Theo, Garza for any four of the following, only 2 of which can be pitchers, 1 of which has to be a catcher, and 1 has to be an infielder: Noesi, Joba, Nunez, Logan, Laird, Pena, Adams, Sanchez, Cervelli, Warren, Phillips, and Mitchell.”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    not a chance. you’d hear the phone click before you got halfway through that list.

  229. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    I have a question for anyone who knows the Toronto farm system well.

    Do they have anyone who is ML ready to play either 3rd or one of the corners ?

    Thanks in advance if you happen to know.

    :)

  230. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Jason-

    Thanks. He did have TJ in college.

  231. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    the word on the A’s is that they have been assured that they will be able to move to san jose, and so beane is clearing out anybody who’s got any value now to stock up the prospect to bring up around the time they move (2014?)

  232. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    “the word on the A’s is that they have been assured that they will be able to move to san jose, and so beane is clearing out anybody who’s got any value now to stock up the prospect to bring up around the time they move (2014?)”

    Problem is that they’ve traded their two best chips and I don’t see that they’ve aquired any impact type player to build around……Cole is the highest ceiling guy and he’s in A ball……they got role players for Bailey. Im not quite ready to call Beane a bad GM……but at the very least he’s extremely overated.

  233. NYYanksFan December 28th, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    A-Rod was with Torrie Wilson in Boise. She fits the tall and blonde requirement.

  234. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    Blake-

    I think maybe what they got from the DB’s for Cahill was a pretty good haul.

  235. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    MTU,

    The Cahill deal was the best of the 3 to me……I did like that deal

  236. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    Blake-

    Billy Beane = Prospects-R-Us.

    :)

  237. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    alcantara is supposed to be the big pick-up for the A’s in this trade. The 19-year-old has a 2.72 career ERA over two seasons (1 season in the gcl and 1 in the NY-Penn A ball)

  238. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    MTU,

    I don’t know a ton about the Jays system……only that most all of their top guys are pitchers …..I don’t know of any corner infielders they have are close.

  239. Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    @ Saint true if the Cubs hold Joba in high regard he could be an interesting piece for them

  240. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Blake-

    The Cubbies need a 3rd baseman now that Aramis is gone.

    The Jays might want Garza.

    How about Garza for Lawrie ?

    Who hangs up first ?

  241. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Thanks for the info on Bailey having already had TJ once, well since he had it in college and he still has all these issues, really, unless he wanted him to try and improve his market value in the first half as Blake said, I think this was all Beane could hope for.

    That is taking the chance that he pitches the entire first half, and maybe Beane knows how much of an issue it really is?

    DaSaint I agree with you on their extra depth, those guys need to be utilized in the proper way, but I think they still have some time on their hand with them for at least another season.

    I would also say, I think D.J Mitchell is a name we will all hear this year, as I think he is very likely going to be the long man, and do a good job at it as well.

    I will also add Adam Warren has better stuff than he is given credit for, and should not be discounted for pitching in the rotation this coming year if A.J is still on the team. I don’t think there is a big difference between his stuff and Noesi.

  242. BD (Boston Dave) December 28th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    great trade for Boston

    They lose Papelbon and get 2 first round picks.

    They add Melancon and Bailey for guys who were borderline starters at best – of course it hurts their depth – but to get 2 quality relievers without giving up a blue chip prospect or regular starter could be considered a coup.

    Now… the Sox need to stay healthy. It’s a big IF… but they have improved their club quite a bit (on paper, of course) with those 2 deals.

    I’m surprised Beane couldn’t do better for Bailey.

  243. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    “How about Garza for Lawrie ?”

    I would think the Jays given that they have a lot of pitching on the way and Lawrie is good.

  244. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Blake-

    If I’m Theo I reach for Lawrie.

    Maybe the Jays would move Bautista back to third and replace the corner guy.

    The Jays might see Garza as a #2. He’s fairly young and proven in the AL east.

    Even though I tend to agree with you would Crapstein be bold enough to ask ?

  245. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    im with blake, if the jays are as high on lawrie as they seem to be (and why woulnd’t they?) they don’t need to move his bat for more pitching. they are strong long-term on pitching. the upgrade would likely be too short term for them to consider it.

  246. m December 28th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    I’m watching Kareem get beat up by Bruce Lee. Pretty funny. :P

  247. spidanyc December 28th, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    3-way trade proposal:

    Padres get: Eduardo Nunez, Brandon Laird & Corban Joseph
    Cubs get: Anthony Rizzo, Noesi, Romine and Dave Phelps (Chicago native)
    Yankees get: Garza

  248. BD (Boston Dave) December 28th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    “Blake-

    If I’m Theo I reach for Lawrie.”

    ———–

    I don’t think it’s an insult to ask for Lawrie but as most of us suspect, Toronto would probably pass.

    Garza is under control for 2 years and Toronto should be thinking long(er) term as well.

    Sure, Toronto could surprise everyone but in a division with NY, Boston, and Tampa all still appearing to be superior at this time, they should probably be building for 2013 and beyond and hoping the new CBA will start to close the AL East gap.

  249. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Thanks for the opinion guys.

    I do not know Torontos farm system well enough to know if the could/would part with Lawrie.

    As you point out. If they are stacked in the minors at P then it just does not compute well.

    Would the Cubbies try to pry Wright away from the Mutts ?

  250. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    jed hoyer is actually the cubs gm. hard to say how much say hoyer gets but im sure theo had to give him some real power to bring him over from san diego (or was it payback for sending theo agon?)

  251. m December 28th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    IMO, Hoyer’s just a puppet. The Cubs wanted Theo to be their GM, but then there was the whole “this is a lateral move so give us a ton of prospects or we won’t let him out of his contract” thing from the Sox. So, then to get around it, the Cubs said, “Fine, we’ll make him the president.” And as someone said here, the Padres didn’t need much arm twisting to let Hoyer go.

    Hoyer will be the least talked to GM in the game. Theo is running the show.

  252. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    i think if the mets move wright its gonna be for prospects, because they are so hard-up for cash that they need more than the amount they would save over 2 years for garza over wright. (probably around $14M as opposed to getting prospects and saving $31M)

  253. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Y’s-

    Thanks. I’m done trying to help the Cubs.

    Can’t stand Epstein anyway.

  254. blake December 28th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    http://www.minorleagueball.com.....s-for-2012

    MTU,

    here is Sickel’s take on the Jays prospects. #6 on there is the guy that I wanted the Yanks to take in the draft this year…..he fell to the 2nd round due to signability issues and the Jays took him and he signed…..

  255. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Thanks blake.

    You’re right. Looks like they are pitching heavy.

    AA is kind of a magician because he was able to get rid of some pretty onerous contracts.

    I like the Morrow move, and his recent acquisition of the WS closer.

    I’m gonna stick to worryin’ about the Yanks.

    ;)

  256. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    Daniel Norris, yes Blake I really wanted that lefty as well, but Dantejr had as good of a rookie season as one could have.

  257. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    yes i read this morning that dante projects as a elite bat. i like the sound of that…

  258. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Does anyone have a hunch where Prince will land ?

  259. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Bichette has good genes.

    His Father was a stud.

    :)

  260. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    andrew bailey on the ebb blog (thanks PAbe): “On facing the Yankees:

    “Going to college in Staten Island, I’ve already gotten a lot of my buddies texting me. They’re die-hard Yankees fans. It’ll be fun. I’m looking forward to it. I have a lot of friends who are Red Sox fans, also. It’ll be fun to be part of the rivalry. Me growing up in New Jersey, I know a lot about it.”

    (Bailey grew up in south Jersey and was a Phillies fan as a kid.)

  261. jacksquat December 28th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
    Does anyone have a hunch where Prince will land ?

    You looking to get out of the way in advance? :)

  262. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Two kids I have been hearing about are Tyler Austin, and Ravel Santana.

    I know a little about Santana but almost nothing about Austin.

    I have heard from GB and others that Austin can really stick it ?

  263. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Jack-

    Even a canonball has a limited distance when fired.

    He’ll come down way before the Utah border.

    (I hope)

    :)

  264. blake December 28th, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Jason,

    I think the question is……coukd the Yanks have picked Norris and then still got Dante in the 2nd round? We’ll never know…….but yea Dante had a great season and seems to have justified the pick as much as any kid can do in the GCL.

  265. blake December 28th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Does anyone have a hunch where Prince will land”

    Hopefully not Texas……the Nats seem to make sense but Rizzo basically said today that Laroche was their first baseman

  266. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    i think prince ends up either in seattle or d.c.. my gut says the nats but who knows.

  267. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    btw, im wearing my natinals t shirt ($1 at the thrift store) with the O crossed out :)

  268. MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Have a good night guys (and gals).

    I’m out for now.

    See ya’ manana.

    :)

  269. yankfan December 28th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    red sox got bailey?

    cashman beaten again, not surprised. its time for a change, he doesnt have the expertise to operate in the new baseball market

  270. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Yeah they could have done that, but we will never know if he would still been on the board.

    Plus the kid they drafted in the second round, I think the Yankees really like a lot.

    Huge NH right handed pitcher who already knows how to pitch and once he gets to throw year round, who knows how good he will be.

    Jordan Cote is his name, 6-5 215.

    MTU Tyler Austin his a combined .354 between GCL and SI, he also stole 18 bases not getting thrown out once during the regular season. In 47 games he had 6 HR’s 18 doubles and two triples. 36RBI’s. He needs to work on his defense both at third or first, and also needs to walk more he had 15 of them to go with 39 k’s.

    People compare him to Laird because of the defense and lack of walks, I think he might be a little more patient, and he is a better athlete.

    He could be a guy in the future who might be a future outfielder, he should hit enough, that’s one thing he can do is hit.

  271. j9d December 28th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    I have not seen any professional analysis of this Baily trade but I look forward to it because it seems like Beane gave him away to the Sox. I am happy to be set straight on this given the Yankees can’t get anyone without a ridiculous overpay.

  272. GreenBeret7 December 28th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    yankfan December 28th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
    red sox got bailey?

    cashman beaten again, not surprised. its time for a change, he doesnt have the expertise to operate in the new baseball market

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    You’ve been smoking some bad stuff, Junior. Exactly what was Cashman supposed to do with another closer. The bullpen is loaded now.

  273. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    Ha! cashman was supposed to outbid the socks to get a 3rd (4th?) closer?

    i think he meant a different kind of ‘yank’ fan…

  274. RMS December 28th, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Yanks need starters, pen, no.

  275. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    Jason,

    yea no argument….

  276. Yank 97 December 28th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    “cashman beaten again, not surprised. its time for a change, he doesnt have the expertise to operate in the new baseball market”

    Get used to it – this is the new way the Yankees operate

    Mission to $178 in 2014!

  277. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
    hearing from folks (not a’s folks) that the a’s were quite concerned about baileys elbow. also hear some folks love alcantara
    44 minutes ago

    Alcantara is what in rookie ball? There must be real concerns about Bailey’s health for them to deal him for what they did…..

  278. Jerzz December 28th, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    blake – and even if that were true, Beane couldn’t get better from ANY other team that needs a reliever?

    If only our rookie ball players could land all-star closers…

  279. CB December 28th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    And so we now officially start the ritual necessity of deifying the Boston GM.

    Cherington – he’s just a genius!

    When you look at this deal – it basically says that the A’s think Bailey’s arm is going to blow up.

    Now that may or may not be the case. But the Sox do this frequently. And then when they start accumulating injuries during the regular season people are constantly scratching their heads over the Sox “bad luck.”

    And this leaves a huge amount of pressure on Kalish to produce in RF. They are pretty down on him up there and Reddick was at least a useful alternative.

    This deal is largely a financial “win” for the Sox. Remember – they are going to be much weaker at the back end of their pen than they were last season.

    Trading Papelbon + Reddick for Bailey makes them a worse team.

    And if Bailey’s arm doesn’t hold up – they are going to struggle to piece things together.

  280. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Gary Sanchez is the other untouchable catching prospect, not Romine.

    Jason22, I concur. And you’re right, Cashman does not generally go off on his spects, and having dealt away AJack, Kennedy and even Vizcaino (regrettably), who was at low A but pegged a fast mover and a prime arm in the system, he’s not exactly gun shy when it comes to pulling the trigger if he wants someone out there.

    And yes, the top three, plus Sanchez and Williams, (and yes, Ravel) need to hang around and become Yankees, not shine in other uniforms.

  281. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    “blake – and even if that were true, Beane couldn’t get better from ANY other team that needs a reliever?”

    yea I don’t know…..if he couldn’t then he probably should have waited…..unless as said before he just thinks he’s a time bomb health wise. I think Beane could have demanded more from the Red Sox…..as they really needed a closer and didn’t want to pay Madson what he’ll cost.

  282. CB December 28th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    The other way of looking at this deal is that the Sox would have been much better by signing Madson compared to trading for Reddick.

    They are absorbing significant risk in the deal that has to be priced in to the transaction.

  283. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    Yeah it’s a shame that the Yankees never trade any high end arms in low a ball for pitchers who were third in the voting for the Cy Young.

    Javy Vasquez says hi, and Vizciano does too.

    Who knows how good Alcantara is but, if Bailey elbow does not hold it does not matter.

  284. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    is the NY Penn league considered a rookie league? i dont thinks so…

  285. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    CB,

    Basically the Sox have swapped Papelbon, Lowrie, Reddick, and Weiland for Bailey and Melancon.

    I agree that that’s a net loss so far……now if they use the savings to sign a legit option for their rotation and fill in some other holes then maybe that’ll change things…..but right now….the Red Sox are worse than they were last year……..and even less deep if that’s possible. I can’t imagine they’ll stand pat with their rotation though….

  286. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    is the NY Penn league considered a rookie league? i dont thinks so…

    Yes, short season rookie league

  287. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    Basically the Sox have swapped Papelbon, Lowrie, Reddick, and Weiland for Bailey and Melancon.
    ________________________________________

    more like papelbon, lowrie, reddick, and weiland for an injury challenged Bailey and 2 first round draft pics.

  288. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    I would have liked to see Beane have demanded Middlebrooks along with Reddick and put Boston in a position to either overpay in the trade or overpay to sign Madson…..seems to me that he could have had that kind of leverage and failed to use it…….

    Boston was never going to allow either Bard or Melancon to close……Melancon was probably acquired to pitch the 7th to be honest…..Bard will be setting up by opening day.

  289. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    Or its closer to low A

  290. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    sorry an injury challenged bailey, melancon and 2 draft picks

  291. Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    I think NYPL is between R and Low A. Prolly considered Low A?

  292. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    ny penn is a short season a ball league, staten island and the brooklyn cyclones are in it. i think when you say rookie ball, you are talking about the fsl or the gcl.

  293. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    the draft picks aren’t helping them for a long time…..if they ever do at all.

  294. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    I think the Penn league is kinda between rookie ball and low A as far as level of competition goes….my understanding is that it’s sorta an intermediate level between the two.

  295. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    This year will be so telling to see what all these kids do in the minors, and here is a name to throw out that is always connected with Vizciano.

    One of the reasons the Yankees were willing to trade him was worries about his mechanics, and injuries in the future, the other was they had a kid who’s arm they thought was close to, and that Jose Ramirez.

    Now he has in no way been as good as Viz, he has had his own injury worries, but he was dominant in the instructional league after the season, throwing as high as 98 out of the bull pen, and with a devastating supposedly newly discovered slider. They are going to keep him in the pen in the future, so maybe he will be a guy who can be as good as Viz might be.

    J Alfred, yeah Cashman never says anything, so it’s so silly when you see these fans hating on him when he finally talks about some of these kids.

    I think we all saw what Montero could be, maybe it might be wise to allow Manny and Dellin the chance as well.

    Also Jackson never put up the #s that Williams did last year, they are not comparable, even if it was in SI, the kid was the best player in that league.

    Santana in Right, Williams in Center, they are the future folks along with Montero, and Cano carrying them.

  296. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    well, i think it all comes down to how bailey does. if he’s an adequate closer, they did fine, if he’s ineffective, especially if his forarm strain of last season turns into something more, then it becomes a terrible deal.

  297. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    it’s actually classified as Class A short season

  298. CB December 28th, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Blake,

    I agree – the real issue is what they with their rotation.

    That’s the crux of their off season. People aren’t seeing that.

    That’s where they collapsed last season and had problems the year before.

    They have no depth at all in terms of upper level minor league starters. So what they go into the season with is pretty much what they are going to have.

    If they don’t take the financial savings from Papelbon and reinvest them in a significant way into their rotation, then they are going to be a worse team than they were last season and have similar structural problems.

    If they go out now and sign Kuroda – that’s a major win for them. But if they don’t make a quality move like that then they are going to have taken a step back.

    Perhaps Beane is just clueless. But if he’s not, then he’s pretty much saying that I can’t trust Bailey’s arm to stay intact for even half a season. Maybe in his position he’s gotten very risk averse and feels that he can’t hold onto an asset like Bailey – but if he’s being reasonable then it really suggests that he doesn’t think Bailey will stay healthy.

  299. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 9:33 pm

    Relegating Jose Ramirez to the pen is premature and counterproductive; the slider gives him 3 pitches. His FB and changeup are nasty. If the Yankees pitch him from the pen in 2012, shame on them.

    NY Penn league is technically short season A, but you still have to consider it lower than A-, in spite of its designation.

  300. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    If Boston went out and signed Kuroda and maybe Saunders or something like that….allowing Bard and Aceves to stay in the bullpen……then they’d have a pretty solid staff.

    I don’t know if they’ll spend the money to do that though…..right now their rotation is even less deep than it was last year because they’ve lost Lackey, Weiland, and probably Wakefield…..all of whom at least threw some innings for them.

  301. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Remember something else about Boston, Ellsbury is going to start costing them a lot of money in the near future.

    I am not so sure they even have the money to go out and sign Kuroda.

    Again Brian Cashman needs to do whatever it takes to trade A.J and sign Kuroda, it takes pressure off of Hughes and Nova, it gets rid if A.J, so that makes the bull pen better not having to worry every 5 days about getting nothing out of a start, and it gives you even more protection to not rush any of the arms.

    I also think Garcia gets no respect, no he is not great, but go look at his starts last year, the guy with a few exceptions saved the Yankees arse last year.

    Just because you don’t throw 90 does not mean you can’t get guys out, I still think he is going to give the team a chance to win every 5 days, and that’s a lot more than can be said for A.J.

  302. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    I disagree yankeefem, he has not been productive in the rotation, nor been able to stay healthy and build strength, but the Yankees think out of the pen he can be dominant.

    Sometimes you need to see what you have in a kid, and if he is not a starter, but you think he really be something in the pen, you do it.

  303. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    im definitely not as down on the socks as many here are. they lost youk for a significant portion of the season, bucholz is very likely going to be healthy for the year. they have a great offense and their bullpen could turn out to be very good. Their rotation is thin, but if they get a full season out of bucholz and beckett stays healthy, they have a good chance, i think aceves will help in the rotation and there is still time to bring in someone like colon, oswalt or even kuroda and last seaon was by far the worst in lackey’s career so some comeback is to be expected.

    there are several big if’s but what team doesnt have them certainly tampa does. i expect the socks to be there all the way. the health of beckett and youk may be the deciding factors of whether this team makes the PS.

  304. CB December 28th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    “If Boston went out and signed Kuroda and maybe Saunders or something like that….allowing Bard and Aceves to stay in the bullpen……then they’d have a pretty solid staff. ”

    The thing is – I think this is going to be their move to set up Bard to the rotation.

    Even if that works out – they really don’t have much pitching depth across the organization. They aren’t going to be in position to absorb injuries to either their rotation or their bull pen.

    This isn’t a done deal in terms of impact. Isolated it’s good transaction for them but its total value really depends on what they do with their overall strategy.

    They have a number of holes to plug. And that’s what they are in the process of doing right now – plugging holes.

    That doesn’t necessarily make them better than last season.

  305. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    Jason, I wouldn’t say he hasn’t been productive in the rotation but that he was coming back from the 2010 injury and especially working on his breaking pitch, which was a not very good curveball until they switched him to a slider. He also had trouble repeating his delivery. I don’t know that he can’t stay healthy and/or build strength, jury is out on that. However, I do know that if his slider going forward is as good as it was in Instructs, you devalue him out of the pen. The kid has a plus changeup, and unless he is an injury risk, I would like to see him still show what he can do as a starter. After all, he is only 21 years old.

  306. theREALkevin December 28th, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    lol @ thinking andrew bailey is some huge difference maker

  307. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    The last 2 seasons everyone has assumed that Boston would be healthier the following season…..while that’s technically possible…..they don’t keep having injuries by fluke…..they have a team full of injury risk and it’s showed up and cost them.

  308. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    i forgot lackey had surgery. i think i was still in mouring when they announced it.

  309. exiledintampa December 28th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Lackey isn’t even pitching this year. That’s an improvement all by itself.

  310. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    CB,

    I agree…..we have to see what they do now as a follow up

  311. Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    One thing you can bank on with Beckett is every other year he’s plain awful, going back to ’07. Going by that pattern I’m expecting him to be a 4.20 ERA guy going on the DL multiple times.

  312. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    As constructed right now….the Sox are relying heavily on Bucholtz’s back being ok and Beckett staying healthy again…..

  313. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Bard in the rotation should be interesting. Despite the velo, his fastball doesn’t move that much.

    Yankeefem – Jo-Ram throws the ball effortlessly & the change is first rate. I’d be disappointed also if they’re pigeonholing him for the bullpen.

  314. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    well, blake, to be fair the yankees are also an ‘injury risk’ team with several pricipal players being 32 or older. the law of averages would suggest that the socks will be healthier in ’12 but thats like predicting the # of hurricanes that are ‘likely’ to hit the east coast. there is no way of knowing…

  315. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    exiledintampa December 28th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
    Lackey isn’t even pitching this year. That’s an improvement all by itself.
    ///

    Yes, it’s unfortunate :D

  316. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    im assuming from the start that they will have a BP of melancon, bard and bailey. they can humor bard all they want but i dont think even they expect him to work out as a starter. see cherrinton’s comments from the presser tonight.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b....._bail.html

  317. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    I agree about Bard’s fastball. Sox have to still be going all out for a starter.

    I wonder why the rush to move J-Ram to the pen. If that slider is as good as they say it is, then it doesn’t really make sense. FB and change are just too good to waste him in the RP.

  318. blake December 28th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    “well, blake, to be fair the yankees are also an ‘injury risk’ team with several pricipal players being 32 or older.”

    Arod is pretty much the only position player….maybe Martin (and they are very deep at catcher)…Hughes I guess is a risk but they are also a lot deeper than Boston in the rotation right now. The Yankees have been much better prepared to deal with injuries the last 2 seasons than Boston has…..and that’s why they’ve made the playoffs and Boston hasn’t.

  319. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Jason22, no, I don’t think AJack has anywhere near Mason Williams’ offensive potential. Love that the bat is lefty, too. One way they’re comparable is OF defense. AJack can go get it, and so can Williams. Williams though, has a surprisingly decent arm. He’s the best OF prospect (I’ve seen live) defensively since AJack, I would say.

  320. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    in the *bp*, that is…

  321. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    All fair points yankeefem, but for the Yankees to put him in the pen, tells you one or two things, either he blew them away when they put him out there, or they have serious concerns about him being able to start.

    I think it’s a combination of the two, with him opening their eyes with how impressive he looked making the switch.

    Boston is going to continue to have injury woes, they are asking Yuk to play a position he really should not be playing anymore, so yeah he is going to break down. He is a first baseman playing third, he is not getting younger or more athletic.

    Their offense except for Crawford is going to take a step backward this season in my opinion, I don’t think Papi has as good of a year, nor Ellsbury, he is a very good hitter, but that power, where the heck did it come from? Also can he stay healthy.

    They have way more questions on that team than the Yankees do, yet we have so many Yankee fans scared of them, it’s silly.

  322. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    I don’t think they’ll ultimately start Bard…..I think there is a better chance Aceves is in the rotation….

  323. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    At least if we have injury risks, we also have depth, unlike Boston. Esp. in the SP. Just keep CC healthy, is all I ask.

  324. CB December 28th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Boston has a very talented team. They are going to be in the race and will challenge for the division.

    But every move they make is instantly deemed as some huge “win.” Just like every player they pick in the draft is a future star.

    And every single winter people just assume that they are going to be “healthy.”

    Boston is no longer is young team. This isn’t 2004 anymore. Kevin Youkilis isn’t forever young. He’s on the other side of 30 and his body is breaking down.

    The assumptions are almost as if the Sox are going to have complete health. That never happens.

    One of Boston’s major issues is that they simply don’t have large amounts of depth in terms of talent in the organization – especially in pitching.

    This makes it very difficult for them to combat the injuries that will inevitably occur.

  325. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    I should add that Melky Mesa’s OF defense is also elite. It’s just that his bat infuriates me, that I dismiss him. He’s a great CF, though.

  326. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    blake, agree. Aceves to the SP makes much better sense.

  327. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    blake, you left out jeter, probably less of an injury risk than a risk for declining productivity and range. also cc is 32 and aj is 35 and dont look now but there’s a guy in the bullpen who’s over 40.

  328. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    and they would be better off if they could keep both Bard and Aceves in the pen and sign or acquire established starters for the back end.

  329. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Trenton should have a nice outfield with Abe now in the mix.

  330. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    “blake, you left out jeter, probably less of an injury risk than a risk for declining productivity and range. also cc is 32 and aj is 35 and dont look now but there’s a guy in the bullpen who’s over 40.”

    none of those guys have been injury risks in their careers though and that’s what we were talking about….of course they could get hurt….anybody can….but they have all been pretty durable guys.

  331. CB December 28th, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    “I don’t think they’ll ultimately start Bard…..I think there is a better chance Aceves is in the rotation….”

    That very well could be the case.

    The main issue is that they have to add talent from the outside to the mix. If they don’t do that then all they got from losing Papelbon is saving some money.

  332. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Boston piecing together a talented bullpen in such a cheap fashion becomes huge if they direct their resources to sign Kuroda or Oswalt.

    Their winter is very incomplete right now because they haven’t yet addressed their main weakness.

    It’s somewhat similar to the Yankees last year. The Soriano signing could have been very reasonable if the Yankees then moved Joba to the rotation.

    Have to wait the rest of the winter to really evaluate these moves by Boston.

  333. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
    I agree about Bard’s fastball. Sox have to still be going all out for a starter.

    I wonder why the rush to move J-Ram to the pen. If that slider is as good as they say it is, then it doesn’t really make sense. FB and change are just too good to waste him in the RP.
    ////

    Yankeefem, yeah the quality of that slider may affect his fate. I certainly won’t find out until he makes it to Trenton. BTW, heard from someone connected w/Braves system coach that Vizcaino has made strides on his change. If that goes, then he goes into the rotation. :( .

  334. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    Jason, it would have to be injury concerns or the slider played in Instructs out of pen, but isn’t a good enough pitch. Guess we will learn more going forward. I wish Charleston were coming to Lakewood this season. And even if Ramirez literally blew them away in Instructs, that is no reason to relegate him to the pen while he is still developing. A RP is fungible, a SP with J-Ram’s FB and changeup is not.

  335. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    One of Mesa or the two Almonte’s are going to have a future on the Yankees at worse an extra outfielder.

    I still have a belief in Abe as someone who could be a lot more than that.

    He was a great player in the second half of 09, and then he all of 10 besides the first few weeks.

    Last year he started off very slow before hitting well over 300 in the second half along with a 36 game hitting streak, I think he could be a legit big time prospect if he did put it all together.

    Zolio I don’t know about, he is a weird one, different than Mesa, but still weird. He had such good #s in Tampa, power #s too, but then he struggled in Trenton.

    Mesa was horrendous the first two months, but then he also hit well the rest of the season, while also being injured on and off.

    Like I said, I really like Abe Almonte.

  336. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Pruf, I never considered Viz to be categorically pen-bound. I think giving up on his improving on his third pitch when he has two plus pitches and is still young, (similar to J-Ram in the reverse: Viz has the CB, J-Ram has the changeup) is troubling. Good to hear.

  337. CB December 28th, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    The “new look” Yankees need to do a better job with developing the talent that they have in the minors.

    This is an absolute must. They can’t keep screwing around with guys like they did to Noesi last season.

    What they did with him was dumb at the time. Now that their budget constraints are more apparent – what they did was even worse.

    If the Yankees want to get value out of their minor league system while also using it to save money as the bad contracts they have expire, then they are going to have to bite the bullet and generally leave them in the minors for a longer period of time and be conservative with that.

    Outside of the innings issue, the Yankees burned a year of service time for Noesi and got minimal value back from that in terms of financial issues. They just lost a year of team control while getting 80 low leverage innings from him while also setting back his development.

    There’s a disconnect in the organization that’s concerning. You see that disconnect in things with the Soriano signing, utilization of Noesi, etc.

    They can no longer do that. Not with a budget that is going down.

  338. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:14 pm

    I think Ramirez is going to start the season in Tampa, and if he is out the pen, and he is impressive, we all might see him in Trenton by the summer.

  339. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    “The main issue is that they have to add talent from the outside to the mix. If they don’t do that then all they got from losing Papelbon is saving some money”

    yup

  340. kd December 28th, 2011 at 10:18 pm

    great points being made

    i am super excited to see what jose ramirez can do

    also, there’s a kid named ramon flores who people say can really hit

    i think jason22 made a point that needs to be emphasized, ellsbury is going to cost a pretty penny. if he stays healthy and continues what he did last season…. there is no reason he’ll take less than crawford.

    think about that… the sox might have to pay 45 million a year to two speed outfielders

  341. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Great points CB, they need to be patient and let their talent mature.

    They have the talent, now they just need to use it, I think with Jesus leading the way, they will figure it out.

  342. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Jason22, only got a look at Abe once and liked very much what I saw. There was a poster in here – tyanks – who gave us a lot of great info on Almonte from Tampa. I hope she comes around during the season. I’d like to see Abe regain that form I saw. Zoilo has actually been impressive the few times I’ve seen him.

    Yankfem – the Vizcaino thing is still a bitter, bitter pill. What a waste of such a promising arm, and all for nothing – for Vazquez. They could have just turned Joba loose in ’10, as he was free of innings restrictions.

  343. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    Jason, I would rather they go slow with Ramirez and keep him in the SP, but if he is fatally relegated to the pen, I too expect to see him in Trenton.

    Zoilo’s bat played nicely when I saw him in Trenton. Showed power initially, maybe wore out/injuries. I notice he had trouble hitting righties in winter ball, but I like his bat. His fielding has improved but not overly impressive in the defense department.

    Mesa was hurt on and off, but hit well when healthy. Still has big holes in his swing though, especially looked silly against curveballs at times.

    Yes, like Abe. Big year for him. Hope he can stay healthy.

  344. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    kd, Flores can hit for sure, and he can also play all over the place.

    Plus he might be the most patient hitter in their system, although Dantejr showed that as well in his rookie year.

  345. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 10:22 pm

    kd, how much are the yankees paying for the left side of their infield?

  346. LGY December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    The “new look” Yankees need to do a better job with developing the talent that they have in the minors.

    ——-

    They need to be more like the Rays ;)

  347. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    CB,

    really good post and it’s an issue for sure…..

  348. kd December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    just a gut feeling, but the yankees sign at least one, maybe both of the cubans

    that power that cespedes has is rare, or at least that’s what twitter told me. give him a few weeks with klong and let’s see what he can do

  349. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
    I think Ramirez is going to start the season in Tampa, and if he is out the pen, and he is impressive, we all might see him in Trenton by the summer.
    ///

    Hope they take it slower with Jo-Ram. Too much talent/too young to be cavalier with and “role” obsessed. I am looking forward to the next wave of good young arms coming through Trenton, though. Some of us will be suffering serious Dellin/Manny withdrawal down here this spring/summer/fall.

  350. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    Pruf, never liked the Viz deal. Chris Cabrera was supposed to be the other salve that replicated Viz. Hopefully Cabrera is healthy this year after that weird rib removal operation. He has some nasty stuff. I hope he and DePaula are in the mix. Love to see Turley make a move too this year. Unfortunate that he broke his hand when he did, but should be back and healthy.

  351. kd December 28th, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    arod and jeter represent the past yankees, it seems. also, they’re two sure fire hofers. crawford and ellsbury don’t have cooperstown credentials

  352. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    We are going to be patient. Cash told us so. Let’s see that patience put into action in terms of developing the farm vs. making knee-jerk moves.

  353. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    kd December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
    just a gut feeling, but the yankees sign at least one, maybe both of the cubans

    that power that cespedes has is rare, or at least that’s what twitter told me. give him a few weeks with klong and let’s see what he can do
    ////

    That’s my deep wish this offseason, but I hardly think the “leaks” point to that, unless they’re just being overly discreet. Really, we have more pitching depth than we do OF.

  354. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    Speaking of power, Flores has been showing some pop this year. Kid has a beautiful swing.

  355. Jerzz December 28th, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    “There’s a disconnect in the organization that’s concerning. You see that disconnect in things with the Soriano signing, utilization of Noesi, etc.

    They can no longer do that. Not with a budget that is going down.”

    Bingo. If they do deviate away from their plan, it should be for net positives like Kuroda, Hamels if he reaches FA, etc.

    Not make panic moves like signing Soriano, improper utilization of their young players, etc.

    So far, their “plan” looks like the worst of both worlds – stay firm on the budget when it comes to players that can help them, yet erase that restraint when they feel they need to make a move to win now, regardless of future consequence.

  356. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    The reason why I love Abe so much is when he was injured in 10, instead of sulking as you imagine a kid might, he actually was helping the Tampa team out with some of the younger Latin kids, and being a team leader while not even playing.

    I remember reading that online and thinking this kid is something special.

    That Trenton outfield if they all play together would be a fun one to watch chase balls, that is for sure.

    If the Yankees do put Ramirez in the pen, I am sure they have their reasons for doing so.

    Not every big arm needs to be starters, I hear this guy Rivera has been not terrible in the pen:)

    Oh and I know you want kids to stay starters as long as possible, but maybe they see something in Ramirez.

  357. exiledintampa December 28th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    Levine also touched on the Yankees’ potential interest in Cuban outfielder Yoenis Cespedes, stating that it was in the best interest of the organization to keep their level of involvement a secret. From an article in YA. Smoke screen or a tell?

  358. CB December 28th, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    “We are going to be patient. Cash told us so. ”

    But the thing is – we really haven’t seen them be patient.

    Everyone keeps talking about how their plan is patience.

    That’s not the case. They haven’t been patient in a disciplined, strategic fashion.

    Last year they just signed Soriano for terrible reasons in a knee jerk fashion.

    They didn’t really show much patience in keeping Joba in the rotation.

    They used Noesi nonsensically.

    The only player they really showed patience with was Nova. And that was largely because he was a relatively late bloomer who flew beneath the radar.

    But the rub is – to be patient something has to give. Either you have to take a step back and not optimize how you can compete or you have to spend more in the short term to create a cushion.

    If you don’t pick one of those two avenues – take a step back or spend more in the short term – then you are going to be left trying to leverage prospects to fill in holes.

    And that’s what they’ve been doing the past several seasons. And that’s almost the opposite of strategic patience.

  359. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
    Pruf, never liked the Viz deal. Chris Cabrera was supposed to be the other salve that replicated Viz. Hopefully Cabrera is healthy this year after that weird rib removal operation. He has some nasty stuff. I hope he and DePaula are in the mix. Love to see Turley make a move too this year. Unfortunate that he broke his hand when he did, but should be back and healthy.
    ///

    Cabrera has a long way to go. You hope he can be healthy.

    As for DePaula, well, let’s just say Vladimir and Estragon need to come up with some more time-killing games to play while they wait.

  360. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    CB, I was being facetious and I agree.

  361. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    Trenton is going to have Brett Marshall, Stoneburner, Mikey O’Brien all in their rotation, it’s not Dellin and Manny, but it’s not bad.

    Stoneburner and Marshall need to find 3rd pitches and strike more guys out, but they both have really good arms. Mikey is the most unappreciated Yankee prospect out there, all the kid does is put up really good #s, but because he does not throw in the mid 90′s he gets no love.

    Oh and yeah Nick Turley is someone to watch, he was so good last season before they moved him to Tampa and he got injured.

    Now if he ever could get a couple more miles per hour, since he is so big, you would think it’s in there somewhere, but yeah he would go from a 4 or 5 guy down the road, to someone with more upside.

  362. J. Alfred Prufrock December 28th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    Jason22, yep, familiar with all those guys. Definitely not Dellin/Manny, but interesting group nonetheless, especially Marshall. & I’m particularly looking forward to the wave that washes up Bryan Mitchell.

    Goodnight, guys.

  363. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    Depaula is coming we all hope!

    Mark Newman said he was hopeful he would finally be able to get over here for next year, so lets see if he is right.

    CB, I don’t think you can blame Cashman for Soriano, we all know who did that, the other stuff I agree with, but for whatever reason they did not believe in Joba, be it his arm not holding up, I don’t know.

    Lets see what they do this year, with Warren, Phelps, Mitchell, and the two special arms in Manny and Dellin they have a chance to show that patience.

  364. blake December 28th, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    Good stuff tonight. I really would like to see the Yankees take the gamble on Soler and I actually wouldn’t mind it for Cespedes either if they believe in the hit tool…..if he’s going to cost 5 or 6 million a year then they Yankees SHOULD be able to cover that risk for the potential upside…..especially given that the opportunities like this may be much less frequent in the future.

  365. CB December 28th, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    “I was being facetious and I agree.”

    I wasn’t really even disagreeing with your point, particularly in the context of your other posts. I know your general position.

    I was more just using the general point as a reference for my post.

    Right now, I really don’t know what the Yankees strategy is.

    Everything made sense in terms of transitioning to a more sane financial model – as long as they were willing to spend more in the short term.

    Now?

    It’s very unclear what they’ve been doing.

    The most likely probability however that I can see is that the organization will continue to turn to the minors to patch up solutions. That will cost them in terms of longer term development. But that’s what I see right now.

    Without short term bridge spending, they have difficult choices. I don’t see them taking the proverbial step back. So that leaves limited options and the minor leaguers are just there waiting…

    We’ll see. But for right now I think the organization has lost some of it’s baseball coherence.

  366. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    arod and jeter represent the past yankees, it seems. also, they’re two sure fire hofers. crawford and ellsbury don’t have cooperstown credentials”

    hof means nothing on the field, whos gonna get more production out of their $45M?

    im not saying the yankees are bad for paying them $45M, just pointing out that we are overpaying for the left side of our infield just as you suggest the red socks are going to have to overpay for 2 outfielders.

    i take a much more balanced approach than most on here. there is a tendency to pick at the sock’s flaws even when we have very similar ones.

  367. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    I have serious questions about Cashman, I mean he tried to trade Jesus for a few months rental in Lee, and yeah most everyone would have done that trade, but I would never have.

    If you want to build a new dynasty you better be sure who the cornerstones of it are going to be, and the fact he did not see what he has in Montero is a worrisome fact.

    It’s better to be lucky than good, Cano would have been traded a couple of times in the past if not for teams picking the wrong players.

    Brian Cashman, Mark Newman, all of them need to know who are Yankees and who are guys to get Yankees are, otherwise having the most talent they have had in their farm, won’t mean a thing.

  368. yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    Jason, it doesn’t hurt that Turley is a lefty. And he does have very decent secondary stuff. The slider’s the key for Marshall but he has two FB’s and a decent changeup. We probably don’t esteem him as high as we once did because of the decrease in his K rates, but he is still a year back from TJS.

  369. kd December 28th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    jason22, where would you rank the yankee farm in baseball? top 5? top 10?

  370. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    the most overrated and ridiculous thing that goes on in yankeeland is this idea that guys are ‘yankees’ or arent yankees. its all bs there is nothing to it.

  371. kd December 28th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    fair point y’s guy. i see what you’re saying. the fact that the yankees had jeter and arod for a long time gave them a huge advantage over the sox, there hasn’t been a consistent ss in beantown since nomar.

    my point is that i don’t see crawford and ellsbury giving them that kind of advantage.

    but you’re right, there’s an imbalance in play here

  372. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 11:01 pm

    “I have serious questions about Cashman, I mean he tried to trade Jesus for a few months rental in Lee, and yeah most everyone would have done that trade, but I would never have.

    If you want to build a new dynasty you better be sure who the cornerstones of it are going to be, and the fact he did not see what he has in Montero is a worrisome fact.”

    __________________________________________________
    that’s your version of history and you are entitled to it, but it’s also possible lee would have signed an extension and the yankees could have 2 more championships.

  373. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    I hate rankings kd, all I know is this is the best their system has ever been since I am following, and that’s both in legit high end talent and also depth guys.

    What I mean by Yankees and non Yankees is knowing your own system, and being able to pick the guys who can help you win, and trading the guys you still think are good, but using them to get other pieces to again help you win.

    yankeefem, nah it does not hurt at all that he is a lefty, not bad for a pick in the last round of a draft.

  374. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    Yep and I think Montero is vital to the future of this teams offense Ys Guy, and I think he is more vital than Lee would have been.

    Having Lee would not have guaranteed anything, last time I checked, he is still without a ring.

    Again I know I am in the minority on that, and I am okay with it.

  375. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    i think there’s just too much analysis with the benefit of hindsight going on here. there was a time when half the people on here were suggesting trades to get that lazy cano out of town. i’d say that noesi’s season in the majors last year is to a great extent the reason that he is so much more highly regarded now than he was. and hughes spent a year in the pen (thank god otherwise we likely wouldnt have won a WS) then came back with an 18 win season. i’d like to have seen noesi in higher leveraged situations, too but i dont see last season as a lost year for him in any way.

  376. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    I agree with you on Noesi, I don’t think it was a lost year, but I do understand CB point, that being to use him in that role, was a waste

    I don’t think he is that more highly rated a lot of people liked him more than Nova before Nova found that slider, and that’s why they are upset at him being used the way he was.

    Now it is likely he won’t be able to be a guy who can give you 180 to 200 innings so you’re forced to get him those innings in the minors this year instead of allowing him to do so last year.

  377. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 11:16 pm

    by the yankees method of allowing a pitcher to go +30 innings from their previous career high, noesi should be clear to throw 190 innings this year.

  378. Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    The worry with that is the Hughes situation where it’s not career high but the previous year #.

    I am one who believes that the main problem with Hughes was the big jump in innings, that’s why I am more confident in him than a lot of the people seem to be here.

  379. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    i think you may be right about hughes having a problem because of the year after year jump as opposed to the career high method of calculating it, and they may adjust noesi next year to be on the safe side. but lets hope we are not depending on noesi to throw anywhere near that # of innings at the mlb level or we are likely going to be in a very bad place.

  380. kd December 28th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    i tend to think that hughes will be fine, and will show he can be a consistent 15 to 20 game winner

    nova, i worry a bit about a sophomore slump. a bit. i’ve always thought he was a bulldog on the mound, that competitive spirit should serve him well.

    i think burnett stays, but is in the bullpen and replaces by noesi by may/june

    garcia – the guy can can pitch. best number 5 in the al east

    cc- if healthy, monster performance

    just some friendly predictions

  381. Ys Guy December 28th, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    well its way past my bedtime, nite!

  382. Nilsson December 28th, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    As far as A-Rod’s medical procedure, I don’t see this as a red flag or a “sign” of things to come.

    After all, he played lights-out defense before and after the knee surgery. If his knee was a serious issue, it would have shown on the field. And he showed good lateral range late into the season.

    The bigger issue was that damn sprained thumb. It clearly bothered him late in the year and, at the least, his offensive timing was messed up in the postseason.

    There’s no way he misses those Joaquin Benoit meatballs in Game 5 with the bases loaded if his hitting timing was in sync.

  383. Nilsson December 29th, 2011 at 12:16 am

    Just reading some posts on this thread, and I see an unusual amount of laundry list of complaints. Then I see they come on the heels of the Oakland/Boston trade news. Haha, like clockwork.

  384. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 12:48 am

    I said before last season that the Sux would come in 3rd at best and except for a few posters here, there was basic incredulity at my even suggesting that. Posters assured that the Sux would definitely make it to the post season.

    Whether the Sux bring someone into their rotation or they don’t, they aren’t going to be any big deal.

    I believe that Andrew Bailey’s ship has sailed. The kid was great at one point but never seemed to be able to get it back once he was injured. I’m sure that the Sux have not made any commitment regarding who will be their closer since both Bard and Bailey are currrently wild cards. They might even end up with closer by committee.

    ******

    I agree that there are posters who seem to see the Sux as titans whenever they make a move.

    And since I don’t think Kuroda was going to translate well coming to the Yankees at the age of 37, neither would I be worried if the Sux did go out and get him.

    I’m betting that the Rays end up being a hell of a lot more competitive than the Sux. They are in deep doodoo all around. Not a lot of kuybaya’ing going on with the Sux. If you think that doesn’t matter, stay tuned.

  385. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 12:54 am

    kd – I like your predictions. Nice to see other than “depressed faces” here with respect to the Yankees rotation.

    As constituted I think they have the potential to be very very good, if not great.

    Nobody is beating the Yankee bullpen.

    A solid rotation plus the Yankee pen? What’s to worry? Unless of course you’re so insecure that if you don’t have everything sewn up in your mind you’re going to vomit your way through the season! Develop a sense of adventure, and enjoy the ride.

  386. stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:04 am

    DUH. Arod’s contract the Yanks may regret. NO sh-t sherlock. What a epiphany.

    arod is a joke, and the flat top fat steinnbrenner is a moron for bidding against himself…

    the chances of arod justretiring are zilch, he loves the coin to much.

  387. Carlo December 29th, 2011 at 1:11 am

    Mark my words, oakland didn’t just trade andrew bailey for that bag of balls. He’s damaged goods. That fleecing screams red flag.

  388. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 1:14 am

    Carlo, I’m with you on that. Why ever would Oakland trade away Bailey if they felt he still had a lot to offer? At one point he was their golden-haired boy!

    *****************
    stuart a, a healthy Arod is far from a joke. Isn’t it far better to have faith that he is going to be healthy enough to get his swing back to where he needs it to be?

    I was pretty unhappy when Arod announced he was opting out and then the Yankees brought him back, but the minute they brought him back, I bought back in. And he certainly had some pretty great moments since then. Injuries have taken a toll on him, but he is definitely a talent, and one with such amazing natural ability.

    I’d prefer to believe that whatever he just had done is going to help him get back to form and perform the way we need him to.

  389. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 1:34 am

    Time for cookies and milk???

  390. stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:35 am

    another arod apologist. the guy will make $30 mill this year. we are going to have to hear about his health for the next 6 years.

    arod sucks and is the most disliked superstar of all time for a reason. the guy is 36, it is over….he will never hit 40 HR’s again. play 150 games!!!I hope so but doubt it greatly, but hey his agent got him the highest contract so whiptydoooooooooooooooo

  391. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 1:36 am

    stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:04 am

    With 6 more years of him to boot, Wonder how many trip to Germany that may be??

  392. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 1:41 am

    stuart a, not an arod apologist by any stretch of the imagination. Just someone objective enough to acknowledge that he has certainly had good moments for/with the Yankees and hoping that we get treated to a lot more of them.

    I consider all of those really long-term contracts scary by the way, unless the player is mighty young at the time of the contract!

  393. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 1:48 am

    Who would of thought it best to make long term contractual obligations with players when they are young. What a novel idea.

  394. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 1:57 am

    Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 1:36 am
    stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:04 am

    With 6 more years of him to boot, Wonder how many trip to Germany that may be??

    ——————————————
    could be wrong but don’t think AROD last out his contract

  395. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 1:59 am

    better have a plan for life after Mo, this could be his last year

  396. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 2:09 am

    Would rather have Mo at 43 than ARod at 37. Afgree about his contract, lucky if he makes it till 40 and plays 120 games a year.

  397. Jason22 December 29th, 2011 at 3:59 am

    Some Noesi news, and it’s something that should need a follow up to figure out what happened.

    He pitched in the DWL post-season yesterday now and after retiring the first 8 batters he was replaced with 2 out in the third inning.

    He had not pitched in 11 days, but I really can’t figure out a reason to remove him with two outs in an inning, so yeah, this is something to keep an eye on.

    Lets all hope it is nothing big.

  398. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 5:59 am

    stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:35 am
    another arod apologist. the guy will make $30 mill this year. we are going to have to hear about his health for the next 6 years.

    arod sucks and is the most disliked superstar of all time for a reason. the guy is 36, it is over….he will never hit 40 HR’s again. play 150 games!!!I hope so but doubt it greatly, but hey his agent got him the highest contract so whiptydoooooooooooooooo

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Stuart, not much you can do about his contract now. Nothing is going to change and it’s water over the dam. I’m not ready to give up on him yet, but I do think this year will be telling. I don’t think we have the luxury of having the usual slow start of Tex coupled with a Arod slump also. The way I look at it is can the guy stay healthy? If he can be in there for most of the games he will put up numbers that help the team. I think he played in less than 100 games last year.

  399. Ghostwriter December 29th, 2011 at 6:31 am

    A-Rod’s contract is a mess, but that was pretty apparent when it was first signed four years ago. It is what it is, and there isn’t much point in complaining about it. Still, to his credit, A-Rod seems to be quite committed to putting out an honest effort to be worthy of his contract. I expect A-Rod to have a bounce-back year in 2012, with 30 homers in about 130 games played.

  400. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 6:33 am

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – The U.S. government has sued New York Yankees co-owner Hal Steinbrenner and his wife seeking more than $670,00 in taxes, saying that amount was erroneously refunded to the baseball team based on a late refund claim for the 2001 tax year.

    The suit filed by the Internal Revenue Service in U.S. District Court in Tampa, Florida, on Tuesday stems from a time when the Yankees and the New Jersey Nets professional basketball team formed a joint venture called YankeeNets.

    Hal Steinbrenner is listed as a general partner of the Yankees along with his siblings, who inherited the team when their father and longtime owner George Steinbrenner died in 2010. Hal Steinbrenner’s wife Christina Steinbrenner is not listed among the team’s executives.

    In August of 2009, the defendants filed an amended tax return for the 2001 tax year, resulting in a refund of $670,493.78, the suit said. But the return was filed more than six months after the deadline, resulting in an erroneous refund, the suit said.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Well if some accountant missed the date by 6 months it would make me wonder how robust the Yankees accounting system is.

  401. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 6:36 am

    Ghostwriter December 29th, 2011 at 6:31 am
    A-Rod’s contract is a mess, but that was pretty apparent when it was first signed four years ago. It is what it is, and there isn’t much point in complaining about it. Still, to his credit, A-Rod seems to be quite committed to putting out an honest effort to be worthy of his contract. I expect A-Rod to have a bounce-back year in 2012, with 30 homers in about 130 games played.

    Morning, I certaintly think that is possible. 130 games is possible IF he has no injury. I think they are going to have to give him 3-4 games off each month so 130 is about the right math.

  402. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 7:37 am

    I hope we get to smoke at least one Cuban cigar.

    Prices seem a bit steep. Even on the Soler brand.

  403. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:43 am

    Morning MTU…..yea I agree. I prefer both and a reasonable trade for Matt Garza……is that too much to ask ;)

  404. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:45 am

    Boston basically has 4 FA options for their rotation….Kuroda, Oswalt, Jackson, and Saunders. Have to believe they’ll sign one of those guys at least…..

  405. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:48 am

    Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 15m fresh off acquisition of closer bailey, #redsox shooting for a starter. some possibilities: kuroda, garza, oswalt, saunders, ejax

  406. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 7:51 am

    Blake-

    Good morning back at ya’.

    Crapstein and reasonable should never be used in the same sentence.

    So yeah. It’s too much to ask.

    The new budget constraints appear to have really put a damper on things for the time being.

  407. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:56 am

    MTU,

    Yea….we’ll see. Id be cool without just signing Kuroda also on a one year deal…..Im bored and ready for ST so I can see Montero mash

  408. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Blake-

    Anytime A-Rod has a new girlfriend he always has a Monster year.

    Since this one was a former Mz. Galaxy his season should be out of this world.

    P.S. Tex needs to bring that avg. up from the left side.

    ;)

  409. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:01 am

    MTU,

    Im skeptical about Tex transforming himself from the left side……however the guy is a true pro and if its possible I think he will figure it out.

  410. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 8:02 am

    Blake-

    I do not think Kuroda is in the cards either at his asking price.

    The Montero mash. Sounds like a song.

    :)

  411. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Jim Bowden ranks the top ten contracts in baseball (from a team perspective) at ESPN.com and Rays players (Matt Moore, David Price and Evan Longoria) occupy three of the top four spots.

    Imagine that…….Longoria’s deal is ridiculous

  412. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 8:07 am

    The Red Sox are working to improve their team and seem willing to spend some money. As a very long time fan I find it distressing the Yankees are doing nothing.

    That, my friends, is complacency. No basis for it.

  413. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Blake-

    I hope he and Long find the answer. IF the batspeed has diminished then it would seem logical that his swing will need to be shortened a bit.

  414. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 8:11 am

    The plan is patience.

  415. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Mac-

    I do not believe it is complacency that is driving them.

    In my opinion it a desire to get to that budget target which puts them under the LT threshold.

    That, and the constarints imposed by certain contracts.

    My belief is that if an exceptional situation came along they would move.

    Barring that they either trade or stand pat.

    At a minimum I hope they get Soler and Nakajima.

    The lefty for the Ro will probably have to wait.

    :(

  416. disco stu December 29th, 2011 at 8:17 am

    “Im skeptical about Tex transforming himself from the left side……however the guy is a true pro and if its possible I think he will figure it out.”

    Blake – it’s not like the Yankees threw 180 million dollars at a guy who was basically Oscar Gamble from the left side, minus the ‘fro and lighter skin complexion.

    Tex used to rake from the left side because his technique was better (closed stance, quieter hands, not in such a hurry to start the bat because he was looking to pull everything, etc.) and it resulted in a swing that used the entire to field. So I don’t see it as transforming himself, which implies that he has to become something that he is not. I look at it as he needs to go back to what made him such a complete hitter prior to joining the Yankees.

    Giambi could never replicate the swing he had back in Oakland once he became a dead pull hitter with the Yankees … we’ll see if Tex has better results.

  417. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 8:18 am

    MTU,

    They were lucky last year with Garcia and Colon, and they are going to try that again. Yes, it is all budget. The Yankees brand name and value all depend on winning. They put it at significant risk by not seeking to improve.

    The playoffs are far from assured.

  418. Villa Nova-Ya December 29th, 2011 at 8:20 am

    Who in this particular off-season would have been a bona fide game changer in an area of need for the Yankees?

    The answer is simple. No one.

  419. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 8:23 am

    Mac-

    I understand your frustration.

    I would say it is near a dead bang certainty that the Yankees will be in the playoffs especially w the addition of a 2nd WC.

    So I guess we disagree there.

    IMO what is at issue, and what is always at issue, is whether they have the goods to go all the way.

    Maybe expecting to win a WS each and every season is unreasonable especially since the Yankees have won so many more than any other club ?

  420. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:24 am

    “Blake – it’s not like the Yankees threw 180 million dollars at a guy who was basically Oscar Gamble from the left side, minus the ‘fro and lighter skin complexion.”

    Yea I know…..but Tex has never really had a great swing from that side and has never kept the bat in the zone very long……he coukd overcome that when he was in his prime physically…….it becomes much harder to do so as you age and lose bat speed.

    I do however think there are some mechanical things he can do to help however…..shortening and flattening his swing plane…..closing up and reducing movement …etc…..we shall see. As I said…..if it’s physically possible for him to be good again from that side I think Tex will figure out a way……or try extremely hard to.

  421. NYYanksFan December 29th, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Who have the Red Sox spent money on?

    The annual “will A-Rod be the same player he always was” articles started early this year.

    He’s 36 years old. If you expect him to play like he is 28 years old then you are an idiot. Players age. Contracts don’t stop that from happening.

  422. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:26 am

    “Who in this particular off-season would have been a bona fide game changer in an area of need for the Yankees?”

    Well if we are ignoring price tags…….Latos, Garza, Beltran….probably Gio. There are a lot of guys that coukd help for the right price. Garza would significantly increase the Yanks chances at a WS IMO…….will the price e be right is what I don’t know

  423. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Blake-

    Sorry bud but the price is not likely to be right for Garza.

    Crapstein will be looking to score. Several teams appear interested.

    We are not giving up the kind of talent he is likely to demand. I don’t think we should either.

  424. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Time for a buritto.

    Catch ya’ later.

  425. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 8:33 am

    Tex used to rake from the left side because his technique was better (closed stance, quieter hands, not in such a hurry to start the bat because he was looking to pull everything, etc.) and it resulted in a swing that used the entire to field

    ============================

    Teixeira’s never been one to use the entire field. He’s not dead pull all the time or anything (though that’s where most of his power comes from), but he’s never been a guy to use the opposite field on anything close to a regular basis and he’s never had any kind of opposite field power. He has historically gone up the middle (50% of balls put in play over his career left handed) or pulled the ball (37%). Those numbers have remained pretty stable as a Yankee (50% up the middle, 39% pull). I don’t think this is about him suddenly becoming pull happy.

  426. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 8:37 am

    The Red Sox are working to improve their team and seem willing to spend some money. As a very long time fan I find it distressing the Yankees are doing nothing

    =========================

    The Red Sox have added maybe $4M in contracts in adding Melancon, Bailey and the immortal Kelly Shoppach.

  427. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Sorry bud but the price is not likely to be right for Garza.

    Crapstein will be looking to score. Several teams appear interested.

    We are not giving up the kind of talent he is likely to demand. I don’t think we should either.

    =================================

    Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.

  428. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 8:42 am

    MTU,

    If the Yankees will only make a deal if it is exceptional, they will never make one. That is not how trades are made. It is curious that all other contenders are striving to improve, but the Yankees do not. I can’t imagine this team, a year older and with less depth, an AROD seeking therapy for multiple body parts, is going to be better even with Montero at DH.

    If Cashman’s off season goal was to improve then pitching, he has completely failed. He has added no one.

    As for the Cubans, we are kidding ourselves to believe the Yankees will even be in the market.

    Maybe Colon will return. I am doubtful on Jones. Wait until an outfielder gets hurt and all will see what the two career minor league backups will or will not do.

    Yes, I am feeling negative. I liked it when they tried to upgrade.

  429. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:45 am

    “Boston basically has 4 FA options for their rotation….Kuroda, Oswalt, Jackson, and Saunders. Have to believe they’ll sign one of those guys at least…..”

    Why do you believe they’ll sign one of those guys “at least”? Because you hear rumors they’re interested?

    “The Red Sox are working to improve their team and seem willing to spend some money.”

    Exactly what have the Sux done to improve their team? And where do you get the idea they seem willing to spend money?

    *****************

    “Who in this particular off-season would have been a bona fide game changer in an area of need for the Yankees?”

    Very legitimate question. And I think “in an area of need” is the key to the question and the answers you get are going to be very individual-based, of course.

    I agree with you, Villa. S

  430. Villa Nova-Ya December 29th, 2011 at 8:48 am

    You can’t ignore price tags.

    You can’t ignore injuries.

  431. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 8:50 am

    Yes, I am feeling negative. I liked it when they tried to upgrade.

    =========================

    To be fair to the Yankees, I don’t think people are giving them enough credit for the obvious upgrade that Montero will be over Posada as the regular DH. That could prove signifcant.

    Chanes of upgrading elsewhere on the field simply were not that good. They were not getting involved in Pujols and Fielder and guys like Cuddyer and Beltran were not going to be better than what they have right now.

    As for the pitching? I agreed on not going long on CJ Wilson and suspect that the homecooking he gave the Halos on that contract wasn’t going to be happening in NYC. I do wish they were more agressive in the Darvish thing, but can also understand their position vis a vis another long term contract, especially with Cano and Granderson coming up around the bend. To me, the best case scenario is a trade for Garza, who would make a terrific #2 starter. Failing that, the Yankees are doing the right thing by waiting the FA pitching market out, IMO.

  432. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    “Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.”

    That would be a very difficult decision……Id try to keep Sanchez out and offer Romine instead. He’s closer to the big leagues and perhaps that would have appeal over the upside with Sanchez…….however Theo would probably want him for the same reasons Id like to keep him.

  433. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    I don’t think an exceptional deal or a bona fide game changer is the test. The test should be whether a move improves the team. In my opinion, many now unavailable players would have done that. However, Yankee fans pretend the Yankee tax stops moves. That is patently ridiculous.

  434. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    “Why do you believe they’ll sign one of those guys “at least”? Because you hear rumors they’re interested?”

    I just do……it would be poor management to spend all that money last year and then go into the season with two giant holes in their rotation.

  435. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    continued

    I agree with you Villa. Because fans feel that major upgrades are needed does not necessarily mean that major upgrades are needed.

    Matt Garza would be a dream to add to the rotation. But then he would do that for any rotation. He’s not a necessity to win.

    And I agree also with Bret the Hitman. Patience is necessary here. If you don’t have it you better stock up on some tranquilizers. The Yankees don’t appear poised to sell the farm in order to win the division by 10 games. It appears they are willing to simply win the division…

  436. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    I think the RSox sign E Jackson. He fits their mold of hard thrower and fairly cheap. Then they move Aceves into the #5 slot and that is a formidable rotation & BP. They still lack some depth in case of injuries, but Miller could be used there just in case. Melacon, Bard & Bailey are pretty good. They will be a good team but as I predicted last year I think they will fight for 3rd or 4th place ultimately. Yanks & TB are ahead of them. Toronto may be as well, but they have their own question marks too.

  437. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 8:56 am

    That would be a very difficult decision……Id try to keep Sanchez out and offer Romine instead

    =========================

    If I’m Epstein, I respond with “Sure, no problem. I’ll take Romine instead of Sanchez. Just replace Betances with Banuelos and you have a deal”.

  438. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Ray:

    Don’t see Jackson as being cheap or a short term option. I think they’re more likely to look at the guys who will apparently settle for 1 year deals such as Kuroda or Oswalt.

  439. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:43 am
    Morning MTU…..yea I agree. I prefer both and a reasonable trade for Matt Garza……is that too much to ask

    Morning Blake, the words I saw for Garza’s asking price were incrediably high. Code words to me that it won’t happen. It does appear in this winter of patience that it is too much to ask.

  440. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:02 am

    blake, I am only going on what I heard post collapse and that’s probably why I’m not expecting the Sux to make any major acquisitions if it means they have to give up a lot. The fans were pretty POd with what happened in the face of the two big acquisitions they made last season and were absolutely livid with management for watching the team go to pot. So the thinking on the street was that they were not going to go out and get any big names but would concentrate on healing from within (since they were supposed to win the world series with the team they trotted out there last year, ahem). The only player they lost was Papelbum. And they’ve ostensibly replaced him with Miller.

    Anything is possible but the three jackasses don’t appear to know how to run a team anyway and for better or for worse, the mover and shaker on the team was Theo. ‘Twill be an interesting watch.

  441. 108 stitches December 29th, 2011 at 9:03 am

    blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:52 am
    “Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.”

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I’d offer Betances, Phelps, and 2B David Adams for Garza and see if Epstein bites. He won’t get a better offer elsewhere.

  442. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:05 am

    I’d offer Betances, Phelps, and 2B David Adams for Garza and see if Epstein bites. He won’t get a better offer elsewhere

    ========================

    If that’s the best offer he gets, then Garza will be the Opening Day starter for the Cubs.

  443. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 9:08 am

    MTU December 29th, 2011 at 7:51 am
    Blake-

    Good morning back at ya’.

    Crapstein and reasonable should never be used in the same sentence.

    So yeah. It’s too much to ask.

    The new budget constraints appear to have really put a damper on things for the time being.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    MTU, you got that right

    Blake I’m bored also, especially with this patience vrs agressive debate. Everyday people assualting each other on the merits or shortcomings of their case.

  444. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.
    ///

    You are out of your mind. Betances AND Sanchez? For Matt Garza? Insanity. And Cashman, I am certain, would NEVER do that. That’s TWO of the team’s top five elites.

    YIKES

  445. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Suddenly fans are offering the kind of haul for Matt Garza that has been routinely tossed around here for a King Felix type talent. Garza’s good, but he’s NOT worthy of these kinds of packages.

  446. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 9:16 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:09 am
    Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.
    ///

    You are out of your mind. Betances AND Sanchez? For Matt Garza? Insanity. And Cashman, I am certain, would NEVER do that. That’s TWO of the team’s top five elites.

    YIKES

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I’ve sort of figured out that Cashman is offering no “elites”. Therefore, given low supply, high demand I hold out no optomism for any major trade. I’m sure that the management team is very optomistic, but they have layed a pretty good spin case out there if they don’t do well. We have already heard it so many times. High costs, dealing prospects, unrealistic demands, ect. All of those things are true, but it a pretty good out if the ship flounders this year. Some will agree, some will disagree based on what happens which none of us know right now.

  447. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Betances, Sanchez, and Warren doesn’t get you Prince Pineda, let alone King Felix.

  448. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Garza struggled with the Cubbies last year early! How would that fare, especially if he were expensive talent wise in the trade.

    I see the Yanks as layered depth in the SP front with an extremely talented BP.

    SP1………52 CC Sabathia……..Manny Banuelos
    SP2………34 A.J. Burnett……..68 Dellin Betances
    SP3………65 Phil Hughes………Adam P Warren
    SP4………47 Ivan Nova…………Jose Ramirez
    SP5………36 Freddy Garcia
    SP6………64 Hector Noesi
    SP7………D.J. Mitchell
    SP8………David Phelps

    Also, the Yanks have the chips to pull off an in season trade as well. I also wonder how much could one of the B’s be late in the year for the Yanks?

  449. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:18 am

    Good morning, Yankee people.

    The Yankees will never offer Sanchez in a Garza deal. People will be oohing and aahing over Sanchez’s bat once they get a look at it. You don’t trade a special bat like that, especially at a premium position.

  450. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:21 am

    You are out of your mind. Betances AND Sanchez? For Matt Garza? Insanity. And Cashman, I am certain, would NEVER do that. That’s TWO of the team’s top five elites

    ================================

    It would be a lot, but the Yankees could use a reasonably priced and controlled #2 starter and have the chips. Chances of Betances being as good an MLB pitcher as Garza are no better than 50/50. Sanchez is probably 4 years away and a lot can happen in that time, obviously both good or bad, but he’s far from a lock to be a high end MLB hitter or catcher.

    I doubt Cahsman would it too, but he’s not going to get a #2 starter offering guys like Romine, Phelps, Warren, Adams, etc.

  451. Red Robin December 29th, 2011 at 9:23 am

    ” B*ck*tt + L*st*r + B*tth*l*z = Already the best rotation in baseball ”

    Duh .

  452. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Gary,

    I would hope Cashman isn’t offering any elites. Here’s why: the two elite pitchers are just way too promising and way too close to the majors to bail on for “good” talent.

    The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away, but the bat is way too special to be used to pad an offer for “good” talent.

    Williams is the probably the future in CF and we won’t even speak of Jesus, whom I finally feel secure is completely off limits.

  453. Red Robin December 29th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Isn’t that obvious ?

  454. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:25 am

    “Anytime A-Rod has a new girlfriend he always has a Monster year.

    Since this one was a former Mz. Galaxy his season should be out of this world.”

    Funny you say that because I have both noticed and noted the same thing. Didn’t know he had a new squeeze. Good for us!

    :)

  455. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Red Robin December 29th, 2011 at 9:23 am
    ” B*ck*tt + L*st*r + B*tth*l*z = Already the best rotation in baseball ”

    Duh .

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Best, there’s an argument there, but it’s a pretty good one. They get another guy they could be pretty set for their starters.

  456. MaineYankee December 29th, 2011 at 9:27 am

    RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 8:55 am
    I think the RSox sign E Jackson. He fits their mold of hard thrower and fairly cheap. Then they move Aceves into the #5 slot and that is a formidable rotation & BP. They still lack some depth in case of injuries, but Miller could be used there just in case. Melacon, Bard & Bailey are pretty good. They will be a good team but as I predicted last year I think they will fight for 3rd or 4th place ultimately. Yanks & TB are ahead of them. Toronto may be as well, but they have their own question marks too.

    ————————————————————————

    I don’t think Miller is anything special. He seemed to only do well against the weak teams. I would be concerned about Aceves back as a starter. He seemed more suited to the BP when he was with the Yankees. They had a real lack of depth last year and have less now because of the trades for Bailey and Melacon.

  457. pat December 29th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    CJNitkowski AROD PRP story shines light on some media ignorance. Almost 2012, catch up and put the 10 mins of research in to educate yourself.

  458. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Why would we give up Betances AND Sanchez + others for Garza? That is more than the Cubs gave up for Garza the first time around when Garza still had an extra year of arb. The deal would be an overpay and wouldn’t make sense from a Yankee perspective.

  459. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:29 am

    Gary-

    I do not see both Cubans and Garza.

    Maybe 1. Like Soler.

    If Crapstein were to be reasonable (I doubt he would) then maybe we could snag Garza.

  460. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:30 am

    but he’s far from a lock to be a high end MLB hitter or catcher.
    ///

    dogface, this is faulty reasoning. Sanchez isn’t Romine. He’s a virtual lock to be high end as a hitter. That’s why he’s never on the table, IMO. As for Betances, he goes back to what he did in 2010 and stays there, his future is worlds brighter than Garza’s. Even with the latter risk – mostly of some kind of injury I would say – I’ll take my chances, and certainly not giving that future away for Garza.

    But the idea that BOTH would be reasonable from a Yankee standpoint for Garza, shows me just how distorted the lens has become. You kidding? Epstein wouldn’t even be able to get the “Yes” out of his mouth, he’d be choking so on his own saliva.

    Fortunately, Cashman doesn’t have a drinking problem.

  461. pat December 29th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    I don’t like being a fan of a team that hands out towels. :sad:

    https://twitter.com/#!/Giants/status/152393428632739841/photo/1

  462. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Trisha-

    He is in Boise. She is there. He’s workin’ out. Big season on the way ?

    :)

  463. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 9:32 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:24 am
    Gary,

    I would hope Cashman isn’t offering any elites. Here’s why: the two elite pitchers are just way too promising and way too close to the majors to bail on for “good” talent.

    The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away, but the bat is way too special to be used to pad an offer for “good” talent.

    Williams is the probably the future in CF and we won’t even speak of Jesus, whom I finally feel secure is completely off limits.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Well that the core of the debate isn’t it. I don’t think you can hang onto everyone and obviously all these guys aren’t going to pan out. Many don’t agree, many do. Personally I think the Yanks should be going for a starting pitchers and trading some of these prospects if necessary, but at this point I’m so tired of the offseason that I’m ready for them to just go out to war and see what they do with what they have. If the Yanks have again early season injuries to their SP’ers or poor performance it’s going to be a bit of a pickle for them to patch something together.

  464. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    A little perspective here. I was in love with what the Yankees did last season (bringing back Freddy and Bartolo). I felt it had the possibility of success written all over it. They also got Chavez and Jones, a very modest off season compared to the stepchildren to the north, who were deemed the team of the ages because they brought in Agon and Crawford. I don’t think I’m forgetting any MAJOR acquisitions made by the Yanks. Certainly no show stoppers.

    Now neither Hughes nor AJ performed as had been hoped. AND THE YANKEES STILL WON THE DAMNED DIVISION!

    The Sux on the other hand, with the flippin’ team that was even deemed to be better than the ’27 Yanks, well look for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPNpJX8b-bc

    All that glitters is not gold. And because you do not think the Yankees are an improved team does not mean they won’t be an improved team.

    If the offense does HALF of what it is capable of doing, the Yankees will be home free +++.

    And don’t give short shrift to the Yankee bullpen and what that means to the success of the team!

    Half full, not half empty.

    JMO

  465. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    I don’t think Miller is anything special

    =====================

    I don’t think Boston thinks Miller is anything special which is why his contract is only $1M and non-guaranteed. Like last year, they’re throwing it against the wall and seeing if it sticks. If he’s walking people all spring, he’s probably a free agent by April Fools Day.

  466. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:33 am

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:29 am
    Why would we give up Betances AND Sanchez + others for Garza? That is more than the Cubs gave up for Garza the first time around when Garza still had an extra year of arb. The deal would be an overpay and wouldn’t make sense from a Yankee perspective.
    ////

    It’s to the point where, the names put into these hypotheticals don’t even matter. Romine is Sanchez, etc. They’re all the same guy, and they’re ALL available…for Matt friggin’ Garza for chrissake.

  467. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 9:35 am

    MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:29 am
    Gary-

    I do not see both Cubans and Garza.

    Maybe 1. Like Soler.

    If Crapstein were to be reasonable (I doubt he would) then maybe we could snag Garza.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Again I think the cost for Garza is too high, unless there has been some revelation around Yankee land recently we are passing on that one. Same deal on the cubans, I think the price is too high for Cashman.

  468. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:36 am

    “It’s to the point where, the names put into these hypotheticals don’t even matter. Romine is Sanchez, etc. They’re all the same guy, and they’re ALL available…for Matt friggin’ Garza for chrissake.”

    If you are going to trade Sanchez, you better darn well know what you are trading. No way the Yankees trade Sanchez in a package, and not for anything less than a young ace.

  469. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Maine, I think Aceves would do fine as a back-end rotation pitcher for Sox. He does have 4 pitches. Although, I still think they add someone and use Aceves as a long man.

  470. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    I can’t imagine a place more alien for a guy like A-Rod than a place like Boise.

    He must really dig this woman.

    Too funny.

    Mr Spotlight meets Mrs. Moonlight.

    What a hoot.

    :)

  471. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:38 am

    “He is in Boise. She is there. He’s workin’ out. Big season on the way ?

    Big season on the way indeed MTU! We both know it.

    :)

    **********

    This place is always good for a giggle. I expect that half wit Sux worshipper Red Robin to come out with as-always stupidity – deeming the same gaggle of fools to be the rotation of the ages – the same way he did last season and is stupid enough to trot it out again.

    But to see people here actually agree with him makes me happy I haven’t eaten my breakfast.

    Sad that some of you are so driven by fear and don’t have a whit of a handle on reality.

  472. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away,

    ======================

    No he isn’t. Let’s be realistic. He’s 3 years away minimum, more likely 4.

  473. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    “I don’t think Miller is anything special. He seemed to only do well against the weak teams. I would be concerned about Aceves back as a starter. He seemed more suited to the BP when he was with the Yankees. They had a real lack of depth last year and have less now because of the trades for Bailey and Melacon.

    Agree with every point you’ve made Maine. I do think the people who have the best handle on the Sux are the ones who live right around them. No offense to those who don’t live right around them. Consider yourselves lucky!

    :)

  474. NYYanksFan December 29th, 2011 at 9:42 am

    A-Rod and Ms. Galaxy have left Boise for sun, sand and fish tacos.

  475. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Even if I chewed a week’s worth of Peyote buttons I still can’t see the Sux as the best team in the AL East.

    Not that I’m gonna do that or anything.

    ;)

  476. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    I would offer Betances, Phelps/Warren, and Romine for Garza. However, I don’t think the Yankees will. Nine million would evidently blow the budget.

    An earlie poster described how Noesi left his winter league game in the middle of an inning with no one on in the third inning. That is concerning. I would like to know the reason for that. He is important as, at worst, the sixth starter.

    I would be very surprised if the Sox don’t add another starter. They would then put
    Bard back in the pen and start Aceves. Despite our wishes otherwise, if they add Kuroda, Oswalt or Garza their starters are certainly better than the Yankees. Yes, they have little depth, but do the Yankees truly know if any of the AAA guys can really pitch at a MLB level?

    The Red Sox led the league in runs. It was their pitching that killed them in September. They are working on that.

    Tampa Bay will likely be better with Moore all year and their young team maturing. I also expect them to add a bat by trading Davis, a proven MLB starter who will bring a pretty good player in return.

  477. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    I don’t want the Yankees to give up any of the kids. Let’s continue to develop them and plug in a serviceable spot starter to put in the pen. If that means bringing back Bartolo, bring him back. If it means bringing up one of the kids who is ready (is there anyone? I don’t follow the minors the way some of you do) then do that.

    Let’s just hold the line and keep our fingers crossed on the players we have, that they have good years. That’s more than enough to win it all, if it happens.

    Again, paying the sun and the moon for stars doesn’t necessarily mean jack squat. Note the early 2000s with the Yanks and note the Sux 2011 team of the century.

  478. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:46 am

    “A-Rod and Ms. Galaxy have left Boise for sun, sand and fish tacos.”

    Oh. I get it. They’re sitting in her backyard staring her fishtank with a sunlamp on.

    Cool.

    :)

  479. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:46 am

    edit: staring at. Sorry.

  480. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Well that the core of the debate isn’t it. I don’t think you can hang onto everyone and obviously all these guys aren’t going to pan out. Many don’t agree, many do. Personally I think the Yanks should be going for a starting pitchers and trading some of these prospects if necessary, but at this point I’m so tired of the offseason that I’m ready for them to just go out to war and see what they do with what they have. If the Yanks have again early season injuries to their SP’ers or poor performance it’s going to be a bit of a pickle for them to patch something together.
    ///

    Gary, not hanging onto “everyone”, just a few guys. That’s a small number in a system as rich as ours. You don’t blow that up for Matt Garza.

  481. blake December 29th, 2011 at 9:48 am

    “If I’m Epstein, I respond with “Sure, no problem. I’ll take Romine instead of Sanchez. Just replace Betances with Banuelos and you have a deal”.”

    Lol….Im.sure you would.

  482. Best To Ever Do It December 29th, 2011 at 9:49 am

    # dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away,

    ======================

    No he isn’t. Let’s be realistic. He’s 3 years away minimum, more likely 4.

    ————————————-

    That’s the thing I like Sanchez as much as anyone else but he can be moved in the right deal. We’re not talking about just giving him away.

  483. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:39 am
    The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away,

    ======================

    No he isn’t. Let’s be realistic. He’s 3 years away minimum, more likely 4.
    ///

    Even if it takes him that long, he’s worth the wait. The point is, your starting point is shaky, and that is that Sanchez may not hit at the ML level. He’s already got immense power and tremendous bat speed. YOu want to just throw names around, fine, but don’t try to float it that he “may not hit.” That’s just nonsense. Sorry.

  484. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    dogface, no one in the system compares with Sanchez, whether he is 4 or 3 years away, you aren’t going to trade away that bat. Also he is the next catcher wave, so he is particularly valuable. He really heated up at the end of the season once he made adjustments, and had 7 HR in his last 9 games, and batted .433 down the stretch. No way we trade him. His ETA is irrelevant. That kid is a beast; only bat I have seen that I would put in the same sentence as Montero’s.

  485. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Pruf, QFT. You too have seen Sanchez’s bat; so you know of what I speak. Not for Garza.

  486. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:36 am
    “It’s to the point where, the names put into these hypotheticals don’t even matter. Romine is Sanchez, etc. They’re all the same guy, and they’re ALL available…for Matt friggin’ Garza for chrissake.”

    If you are going to trade Sanchez, you better darn well know what you are trading. No way the Yankees trade Sanchez in a package, and not for anything less than a young ace.
    ///

    ANd it’s not even like Sanchez is some elite bat playing a corner position. Guy’s a friggin’ catcher, and virtually no one thinks he won’t stay at catcher.

  487. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    “Despite our wishes otherwise, if they add Kuroda, Oswalt or Garza their starters are certainly better than the Yankees”

    Seriously? And you are getting that notion where? From the job Beckett, Lester, and Bucholz experiment from last year? Or are you turning a blind eye to the way they folded?

    I would take CC, Nova, Hughes and Freddy any day of the week and call them one of the best rotations in the game. That’s how much faith I have in what they bring to the table!

    Beckett has turned into one of the biggest wild cards in the game.

    I’m not sold on Oswalt OR Kuroda so I’m not worried about their addition to any AL East rotation – or any AL rotation for that matter.

    Garza, well that’s a horse of a different color. He improves any rotation.

    austinmac, you and I are about as far apart on our perspectives on the Yanks and Sux as two people can be.

    All that remains is for the season to be played out!

    :)

  488. blake December 29th, 2011 at 9:54 am

    I wouldn’t trade Sanchez plus Betances for Garza…..that’s too much upside to give up for 2 years of a pitcher……and that would arguably be more talent than was given up for both Latos and Gio.

    Fair market value for Garza should be south of both of those deals……if its not than I wouldn’t deal. I think Garza would be a perfect addition though if Theo has his heart right in the price.

    If they could move half of AJs salary and aquire Garza then the payroll stays virtually the same as it is now……..and the team is significantly improved over the next two seasons.

  489. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:55 am

    OK.

    So we’re not tradin’ Montero, the 2 B’s, Williams (good name there for Of’ers), or Sanchez.

    Everyone else fair game ?

    I think so.

  490. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Also, Sanchez is an exceptional talent, but Cubs have a lot of catching depth, no?

  491. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    The cubbies need a 3rd baseman. Among other things.

  492. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 9:59 am

    “Even if I chewed a week’s worth of Peyote buttons I still can’t see the Sux as the best team in the AL East”

    Perhaps that’s because they’re not And so far from it they will probably come in third at best in the sweepstakes?

    *********

    “The Red Sox led the league in runs. It was their pitching that killed them in September. They are working on that.”

    Actually it was their hitting, pitching, AND fielding that killed them in September. If you remember (maybe you don’t?) Ellsbury was the only person carrying them for quite a while in September. Ah, fond memories.

    :D

    “They are working on that.”

    Could you eludicate please? I would like to know how they are working on that because you appparently have some inside information!

    ;)

  493. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 10:00 am

    If someone handed us Garza on a silver platter I would say thank you sir!!! Short of that, patience works for me.

  494. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Even if it takes him that long, he’s worth the wait. The point is, your starting point is shaky, and that is that Sanchez may not hit at the ML level. He’s already got immense power and tremendous bat speed. YOu want to just throw names around, fine, but don’t try to float it that he “may not hit.” That’s just nonsense. Sorry.

    ================================

    It’s not nonsense. Nonsense is saying with 100% certainty that he will hit. I’m not ignoring the kid’s potential, but the fact is he hit .256 and struck once every third at bat at Low A. Now he did do that as an 18 year old, demonstrated enormous power potential, and improved as the year went on. But he also demonstrated there’s a ton of work ahead, both at the plate and behind it. Does he have a better chance to be an offensive star in MLB than about 95% of the 19 year olds presently in the game. Absolutely. Is it lock that he will be? Absolutely not.

  495. Stoneburner December 29th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    We can all agree the Yanks have not produced on the starting pitching front anyone who has had the results of Garza yet in the past several seasons.

    I am seeing only Banuelos reaching the level of Garza or possibly going beyond it as an undersized lefty with good stuff (Banuelos could be Santana, he could be Romero, he could be Wandy, heck he could be Kazmir – we just do not know yet – but the upside is there). It appears all other pitchers are fair game – and reports have indicated that Theo is looking for pitching. So do you say to Theo take any four pitchers not named Banuelos for Garza? Or would Theo insist on Banuelos at all costs??

  496. MaineYankee December 29th, 2011 at 10:03 am

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:38 am
    Maine, I think Aceves would do fine as a back-end rotation pitcher for Sox. He does have 4 pitches. Although, I still think they add someone and use Aceves as a long man.

    ———————————————————————————-

    I know he has the weapons. I’m not sure his health will allow it.

    If I recall he had back trouble with the Yankees when they tried to use him as a starter.

  497. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    dogface, Sanchez batted .433 down the stretch and was adjusting to long season plus working on his catching game, so I wouldn’t get hung up on his overall BA. He also bat .295 with runners in scoring position, if you want to look at stats. I saw him hit some balls in Lakewood that were Montero-loke. That bat is game-changing.

  498. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:05 am

    *Montero-like*

  499. blake December 29th, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Its never a sure thing that any minor leaguer will hit in the big leagues……especially ones that haven’t played above the sally league. Sanchez is a great talent and Im excited about having him……but you have to temper expectations on these kids until they at least do it at AA.

  500. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    Also, Sanchez is an exceptional talent, but Cubs have a lot of catching depth, no?

    ============================

    Don’t know. BA list a C as their 6th best prospect, but sounds as though he may be more about his work behind the plate than next to it.

    Word is it’s young pitching they are seeking for Garza.

  501. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    JAP,

    Sanchez is a terrible catcher at this point. He has an enormous amount of passed balls. I disagree “no one thinks he won’t stay a catcher”. The jury is still very much out on that. Simply, look at his stats. Defensively they are far worse than Montero’s ever were.

    He has a lot of power, but he strikes out a great deal. A think Williams is far more likely to be a big time player and he is the one I hold on to if a choice were to be made.

  502. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    dogface, he’s a lock to hit in the majors. You think that’s hyperbole, I suggest you go watch this guy hit. Then come back and tell me it’s hyperbole.

  503. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    ……………….with him makes me happy I haven’t eaten my breakfast.

    —————–

    Big bowl of cookie dough?

  504. blake December 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Yea id probably given Theo any 3 pitchers not named Banuelos, Nova, or Noesi……unfortunately those are the ones teams really likely want.

  505. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    To hug or not to hug ? That is the question.

    And who and how much ?

    :)

  506. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Maine, as a starter or going back to when we overused Aceves in relief in 2009? But he was a solid starter when I used to see him pitch in Trenton and his velo rose after that. So, I’d be curious to know what Aceves physical makeup is over the long haul.

  507. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:11 am

    MTU December 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am
    To hug or not to hug ? That is the question.

    And who and how much ?
    ____
    If you hug five prospects out of 500, does that make you a prospect hugger? That is mathematically illogical, no?

  508. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    “If I recall he had back trouble with the Yankees when they tried to use him as a starter.”

    And he also started to wear down at the end of the season due to the amount of overuse on the part of the Sux (who were in a position where they were out of choices).

    I can’t see him faring well as a starter strictly due to his back issues. I think at some point the wear and tear would catch up with him.

    *******

    I personally think Theo would be crazy not to hold onto Garza, but of course if some team is dumb enough to offer him way beyond what they should, he’d be equally crazy not to go for it.

    Wait and watch.

    Does anyone else thrill to the excitement of the unknown? I just love watching all of this stuff unfold and never get nervous about the Yankees so nothing puts my stomach in knots (except posters who overrate the Sux based on nothing but fear – that’s all it could be at this point!)

    :)

  509. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    dogface, Sanchez batted .433 down the stretch and was adjusting to long season plus working on his catching game
    ===================

    Which is kinda what I meant when I said he got better as the season went on.

    I’m not ignoring the potential. It’s obvious and enormous. I’m just not banking on it is all I’m sayin’. Long way to go.

  510. MTU December 29th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    YF-

    Provide your own definition. You’re a smart cookie.

    FWIS, What you say is very reasonable.

    Every team should have it’s own list of Eliot Ness players.

    I’m sure the Yankees do too.

    Unfortunately the others don’t seem to be attracting what we want at the present moment.

  511. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    I personally think Theo would be crazy not to hold onto Garza, but of course if some team is dumb enough to offer him way beyond what they should, he’d be equally crazy not to go for it

    ===========================

    They’ve already indicated that they’re gearing up for the old “5 year rebuilding plan”. Some argument that you’d want Garza to be part of that and some that he’ll be long gone before it’s done.

  512. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Trisha, plan to go to any PawSox games now that SWB plays 12 games there? I am hoping to at least catch the August series up there, when I typically am in Newport.

    Here are the dates:

    April 24-25
    July 28-29
    August 14-17, 31
    Sept. 1-3

  513. blake December 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    The general opinions I’ve read on Sanchez’s defense is that he has the ability and body type to potentially remain behind the plate and that his issues are technique and experience related…..basically fixable problems potentially…….everything is potentially with prospects

  514. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am
    JAP,

    Sanchez is a terrible catcher at this point. He has an enormous amount of passed balls. I disagree “no one thinks he won’t stay a catcher”. The jury is still very much out on that. Simply, look at his stats. Defensively they are far worse than Montero’s ever were.

    He has a lot of power, but he strikes out a great deal. A think Williams is far more likely to be a big time player and he is the one I hold on to if a choice were to be made.
    ///

    Sanchez is not Melky Mesa or Jorge Vasquez. He’s going to make adjustments to the soft stuff. As far as being “a terrible catcher,” his athleticism is going to help him get past the passed balls and his arm is strong. He’s learning technique, and that’s an ongoing process. This guy is 19 years old. IF these guys had it all figured out they’d just come out of their backyards and go directly to the majors. He’s got tremendous tools. There’s a reason he’s in the top 100 while still in A ball.

  515. yankee21 December 29th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Have you ever seen an organization with the level of resources and the revenue streams that the Yankees have act as passive as NY has? Oh sure, we never cease to hear how crazy the market is, or how slow the market is or how ridiculous the demands are and how all this impacts the almighty budget. Yankees don’t want to pay a yankee tax or subsidize their competitors we hear.

    Yet, it seems as though Cashman and Girardi never fail to take a chance to talk that for the NYY it is always about championships. If that is true then what has NY actually done since the off season 3 years ago to indicate that it is all about championships? How many guys have they passed up on? What investment are they making in international FA? in draft targets and signings? in minor league coaches to teach these guys? Or maybe they don’t need coaching, after all guys like Nunez are so polished when they come up….

    If Soler is as promising as we read or Cespedes has as much talent as we hear and read and are available why has NY not pounced on these guys yet? Is Maxwell, Dickerson, Curtis the near term answers? Yeah right.

    This team needs a #2 starter for 2012. They do not have it now. What is holding them back?
    Is Nova or Hughes the #2 guy? If ATL can sell off Lowe why can’t NY sell off AJ? Is ownership flat out unwilling to pay a portion of his salary? Does this mean they are willing to grant a starting rotation slot to a guy that has been singularly one of the 10 worst SP in the ML the last two seasons?

    Yet they continue to charge a premium for fans to attend games. How long can that continue? Maybe Hal and company are betting NYY fans are naive and will continue to pay a premium to watch a franchise without the same level of committment to winning that their father had.

    IMO TOR and TB are the up and comers in the division, NY better understand they have to fight to stay on top.

  516. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    No wonder Hal has tightened his man purse strings.

    http://news.yahoo.com/u-seeks-.....15952.html

  517. 86w183 December 29th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    The Yanks have 500 minor leaguers? Damn that’s a big farm system!

    I never consider any prospect “off limits” because it doesn’t make sense to do so. I would trade any player in the system Montero included for Felix Hernandez or David Price, for example. I wouldn’t trade four or five of my best kids for one of those guys however.

    That said, I’m pleased the Yanks have placed high value on holding on to quality prospects. That’s how you avoid losing Jay Buhner, Willie McGee, Al Leiter et al.

    I don’t see them spending heavily for a pitcher until they see what Phil Hughes has in the spring. If you add a starter you have to figure who that starter is replacing.

  518. blake December 29th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    If the Red Sox don’t address their rotation as a follow up to their other moves then they are a worse team than they were a year ago on paper going into ST.

  519. MaineYankee December 29th, 2011 at 10:24 am

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:09 am
    Maine, as a starter or going back to when we overused Aceves in relief in 2009? But he was a solid starter when I used to see him pitch in Trenton and his velo rose after that. So, I’d be curious to know what Aceves physical makeup is over the long haul.

    ————————————————————————

    Don’t get me wrong. I liked Aceves when he was with the Yankees. It just seemed like his back was an issue and I suspect that is part of the reason he wasn’t resigned. Also I think the RS would miss him out of the BP. Without him I think the collapse would have been even worse. He logged alot of innings for them and saved the other arms from being exposed as the fatigue set in.

  520. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 10:25 am

    I would trade any player in the system Montero included for Felix Hernandez or David Price,
    ///

    Nope, I wouldn’t deal Montero for a starting pitcher. He’s the glue for the middle of the lineup.

  521. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    86, yep, much will be determined by which way Phil Hughes’ fortunes go.

  522. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    YF – I will DEFINITELY be going to some of those games. Thanks for the heads up!

    And when you know exactly when you’ll be here in August and what dates you’d be available to go to the games, let me know (and how many tickets we’ll need. Don’t know if you come here solo or with BF). I will get the tickets immediatelyt!

    It will be very cool getting to see the kids you and J Al talk about all the time! GB too.

    :)

  523. blake December 29th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Hughes could be a big x factor for the Yanks this year……but ideally you’d like to plan on that being the icing on the cake …..and not necessarily count on it. He’s going to be in shape…..and he’s going to be very motivated ….but what you’d want in a perfect world is him coming out guns blazing out of the 4th or 5th spot and being the guy that puts you over the top

  524. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    86, the hyperbole was intentional in order to make a point about the derisive usage of the term prospect hugger.

    As for categorizing prospects as off limits or not, someone has to differentiate between prospects in terms of some kind of hierarchy of talent, rather than collapsing them all into one unranked muddy pool of indistinguishable, fungible ball players, as is done here on LoHud. The Yankees themselves rank their players this way, and they undoubtedly have a group of prospects they won’t trade for lesser light #2 pitchers. And why the rush to get one for an overpay? We would be stupid not to be patient and see what we have in our own system, specifically in the case of seeing what Hughes will bring this year. Why overreact or react prematurely? Doesn’t make sense to waste our A prospects for a #2 pitcher; especially considering the talent of our A prospects.

  525. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Good morning all.

    I still can not come to grips with the new wave of Yankees thinking, as it relates to the LT, and spending to improve the team.

    If the product on the field is better, and they go deeper into the PS, that negates any increae in the LT.

    Example, I would sign Cepedes and Solar, one to start, one to MilB.

    If the tearms were not crazy, I’d go after Garza, (cost effective for 2 more years) or sign Kuroda to a 1 year deal. It goes without saying, the Yankees need a #2 SP, now, not at the TDL. Other teams have improved, and standing pat tells me the Yankees are satisfied at simply being competitive, and making bigger profits, rather than taking the attitude that winning the WS should be the goal each and every year.

    There are simply too many questions concerning our SP to go into the season with what we now have. I can’t remember a time when improving the team, when it was just about the money, and not losing top prospects, the Yankees sat back and did nothing.

    It’s a shame the sons have lost the competitive edge The Boss lived by.

  526. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Trisha,

    Yes, we do disagree, but that is what the board is for, I suppose.

    You asked me yesterday about Kuroda. His average fastball is 92 mph. To put that in perspective, Burnett’s average was 92.7. His stuff is not declining at all. He walks slightly over 2 per nine innings so his control is very good. His ground ball rate is also very good. He was ninth in the league in ERA.

    I can’t imagine he would not help the Yankee staff. He has the stuff and showed his mental toughness by succeeding in the US wheen many others have not.

    Watching young players come up is fun. However, the best young starters are not ready. The season long AAA guys don’t seem to excite anyone except those on this board. No one seems willing to give anything of value when Cashman offers them up.

    Since when do tthe Yankees sit back and not try to improve? Since last trade deadline. They are one of the few contenders who are not making an effort.

  527. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 10:34 am

    I am totally counting on Hughes to have everything in order. I just can’t suspend my disbelief enough to think that a guy with the stuff Hughes showed in the past doesn’t have the ability to bring it back.

  528. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    trisha, sounds like a plan! :) I haven’t been to McCoy in y-e-a-r-s! You can get a preview if you go to the April games. That should be one heckuva pitching staff! I am still so p’d off at the Mets for blocking SWB playing in SI or Newark but at least Yankee fans in multiple areas of the East will now get to see a few extra SWB games this season.

  529. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    It was never about his stuff it was his velocity.

  530. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    I am still so p’d off at the Mets for blocking SWB playing in SI or Newark

    =========================

    At least karma bit ‘em back.

    So the AAA Nomadic Yankees are playing all their games on the road?

  531. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:33 am
    86, the hyperbole was intentional in order to make a point about the derisive usage of the term prospect hugger.

    As for categorizing prospects as off limits or not, someone has to differentiate between prospects in terms of some kind of hierarchy of talent, rather than collapsing them all into one unranked muddy pool of indistinguishable, fungible ball players, as is done here on LoHud. The Yankees themselves rank their players this way, and they undoubtedly have a group of prospects they won’t trade for lesser light #2 pitchers. And why the rush to get one for an overpay? We would be stupid not to be patient and see what we have in our own system, specifically in the case of seeing what Hughes will bring this year. Why overreact or react prematurely? Doesn’t make sense to waste our A prospects for a #2 pitcher; especially considering the talent of our A prospects.
    ///

    Yes, ma’am. We can always make a move if need be in-season. Do people here really think if we do nothing, we’ll be left in the dust by the AS Break? LOL.

  532. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Austin, did you ever think that maybe the Yankees are improving by not making a deal right now? Sometimes inaction is a form of taking action. We have plenty of time to add on. And why make a trade when Kuroda is still out there for us (if he plans to pitch in mlb) and if Hal can be convinced to allocate the funds to sign him?

    Further, which AAA pitchers? The ones lauded on this board are the same ones the Yankees themselves esteem, as do all the so-called prospect pundits. Where is the incongruity in that? Or are you talking about the Warrens, Phelps and Mitchells of the world?

  533. 86w183 December 29th, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Lets not forget that “The Boss’” competitiveness led to a 1982-95 drought that was a horrific series of bad teams, bad trades and bad FA signings.

    The Yanks pitching is better than it was a year ago today, so what’s the rush? Some here advocate signing Kuroda and dumping AJ. If they did a “Derek Lowe” deal with would in essence be spending more than $ 20 M for Kuroda’s spot in the rotation… $ 12 M salary + $ 4.8 M tax + $ 10 M to AJ’s new team – $ 6.5 M tax savings = $ 20.8.

    Does anyone really think Kuroda is worth $ 20 M more than AJ?

    I do, however hope they sign Cespedes and/or Soler.

  534. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    dogface, yep. 37 games in Rochester, I believe, because of the Mets paranoic territorial imperative. :(

  535. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 10:45 am

    “Since when do tthe Yankees sit back and not try to improve? Since last trade deadline. They are one of the few contenders who are not making an effort.”

    Perhaps they feel that if the players they have play they way they should they will be fine? And I disagree that they are not trying to improve. But improving doesn’t necessarily mean going out of the system and getting new players. It’s all on how you look at it mac.

    You asked me yesterday about Kuroda. His average fastball is 92 mph. To put that in perspective, Burnett’s average was 92.7. His stuff is not declining at all.”

    Actually, mac, his stuff is declining. It doesn’t matter what your fastball is if you’re not putting it where it needs to be. His numbers are declining the way you would expect numbers to decline on a pitcher who is approaching 37. I’m not saying they have declined catastrophically. But his BAA, OPS, SLG and OBP have all gotten worse. Same with his P/PA, P/IP, P/GS, K/9 and K/BB. While I think Kuroda has a lot of value to the Dodgers and maybe in the NL, I just have major apprehension about his coming to the AL, the AL East in particular.

    I’ve watched Kuroda over the past several years, and last year in particular I noticed more inconsistency than had been there before.

    I tend to look askance at any thought of immediate rewards when pitchers switch leagues, especially NL to AL. And with Kuroda’s age, I just think he turns into a very big risk.

    Again, JMO

  536. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am
    Austin, did you ever think that maybe the Yankees are improving by not making a deal right now? Sometimes inaction is a form of taking action. We have plenty of time to add on. And why make a trade when Kuroda is still out there for us (if he plans to pitch in mlb) and if Hal can be convinced to allocate the funds to sign him?

    Further, which AAA pitchers? The ones lauded on this board are the same ones the Yankees themselves esteem, as do all the so-called prospect pundits. Where is the incongruity in that? Or are you talking about the Warrens, Phelps and Mitchells of the world?
    ///

    Folks just want to make a move for it’s own sake. There’s NOTHING out there that warrants a loaded outbound package.

  537. 86w183 December 29th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    I kinda screwed up the math…. IF the Yanks could get someone to take on $ 6.5 M of AJ’s salary and did a Kuroda deal the net cost of making that change is more like $ 5-6 M since teh acquiring team would have ALL of AJ’s salary for luxury tax purposes.

    It’s still an exspensive upgrade…. and I doubt you could find someone to pay AJ $ 6.5 M

  538. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Again, here’s the SWB article on sched:http://citizensvoice.com/sport.....z1hwHxB49w

  539. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Kruoda’s “decline” in control is being slightly exaggerated… If the Yankees had 2 pitchers better than him, we wouldn’t be talking about needing to sign him. He’s a no brainer, IMO… 1 year deals for any amount of money are like a free pass for a team with the resources the yankees have. This makes the all around staff better and forces Burnett/Garcia/Hughes/Nova to show up and make sure that they actually deserve their spot in the rotation.

  540. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Or are you talking about the Warrens, Phelps and Mitchells of the world?
    ///

    YF, If those 3 guys were in Boston’s AAA system, they’d automatically be the top three close-to-majors guys, and I bet Warren would be talked up and wind up in the Boston rotation.

    Were that the case, some folks here would “overrate” them and put them on par with Banuelos and Betances. Just the way a certain type of Yankee fan rolls.

  541. tomingeorgia December 29th, 2011 at 10:54 am

    I haven’t been to a Triple-A game in years, just the Sallie League. What’s the ticket prices for SWB? JAP, as a Southern friend would put it, I’m in total “agrreance” with you and Yankeefem.

  542. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Tom -

    SWB games were $9

  543. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Hi Tom, milb tix run from @$10-12, depending on where you sit.

  544. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Kruoda’s “decline” in control is being slightly exaggerated…

    =============================

    Control doesn’t seem much an issue for him. I find the career low GB rate and career high LD rate and the 72 extra base hits allowed a little troubling though.

  545. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Control has never been an issue for Kuroda. His LD rates ARE up this year though. Also he threw his slider much less than usual. I still wonder if that neck injury wasn’t a factor.

  546. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    tomingeorgia December 29th, 2011 at 10:54 am
    I haven’t been to a Triple-A game in years, just the Sallie League. What’s the ticket prices for SWB? JAP, as a Southern friend would put it, I’m in total “agrreance” with you and Yankeefem.
    ///

    LOL, tom. I think it’s safe to make a GENERAL assumption that Cashman is in “agrreance”, of not “total.” But I’m not sure he wouldn’t put ANY of the top five in a deal, so for me there’s still some unrest. The $$$ issue, if it’s genuine, may mean, worst case, they make a trade rather than sign a Kuroda, for example. For me, he’s an insurance policy for the younger guys, as well as for this season’s rotation.

  547. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    *IF not “total”.

  548. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:58 am
    Hi Tom, milb tix run from @$10-12, depending on where you sit.

    ***********************************************************

    SWB tickets were $7 for upper level, and $9 for lower level. The great thing about Milb is all the promo’s they run. In SWB they would run prom’s all season where you got 4 game tickets, 4 hats, and all you could eat at the designated vendor, for $29. It don’t get better than that.

    Here in NC, the single A teams charge more than that.

  549. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    ID – I’m not an automatic fan of a pitcher who has pitched in the weakest league in the NL, nor do I take his numbers as anything that automatically translates to the Bronx. And I would never take a flyer on someone as a one-year rental hoping that at the age of 37 he’s going to walk right in and master the AL East. Those are my concerns. Not necessarily how much he has declined in the NL West! Roger Clemens stunk out the joint for at least the first half of his first season with the Yankees and he had spent his entire career in the AL East!

    Too much risk, and unnecessary risk at that. Yankees don’t need Kuroda. They can manage without him.

    I repeat, while I think Kuroda has a lot of value to the Dodgers and maybe in the NL, I just have major apprehension about his coming to the AL, the AL East in particular.

  550. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Garza had a K/BB over 4 against lefties in 2011. He’d be very tough on Boston’s lineup and I think Theo knows that. Theo is said to be seeking young pitching so I suspect a deal doesn’t get done without Banuelos being the centerpiece. He’s the one prospect I wouldn’t trade. The rest are fair game for me.

  551. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Big Al,

    The lower prices must be b/c of the geographical location. Lehigh Valley (AAA) and Trenton (AA) tix are both higher than tix in Moosic.

  552. spidanyc December 29th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Anyone else think a 3 way trade makes sense between the Padres-Yankees-Cubs, with the key pieces being Garza headed to NY and Rizzo headed to the Cubs?

  553. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Banuelos is a better prospect than anybody dealt in either of the Latos or Gio deals……

  554. Best To Ever Do It December 29th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    # Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 10:41 am

    It was never about his stuff it was his velocity.

    —————————————-

    And of course his health

  555. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 11:09 am

    hey trisha, I read back and saw your list of activities. You’re a true renaissance gal, and I would be honored to be on your Christmas cookies’ list.

    here’s the thing, though, on Kuroda. It wouldn’t be like when Javy came here sporting an 89 mph fb. Kuroda can throw 92 and has some weapons. He’s also a very short term commitment and an investment in him is also one in Banuelos and Betances – leaving them in peace to build their arms and continue to hone their craft. I see really ZERO risk in Kuroda. He’s not dependent on sheer guile, like Freddy is, for instance. And Freddy has done alright for us.

  556. Joe from Long Island December 29th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Hi, Brett-

    Here, I agree with you, about Garza. I think he’d be a fine addition to the Yanks’ starting rotation, as he’s battle-proven in the AL East. I wouldn’t deal Banuelos, but I think I might Betances. Reason being, Banueolos is LH; and Betances, being a tree, might well require a few more seasons to mature, at least. Just my thought.

  557. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Blake,

    And it’s possible the Padres and Athletics required Banuelos as the centerpiece in which case Cashman had no choice but to pass. It’s almost like teams know the Yankees are more motivated to protect Banuelos over Montero.

  558. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:07 am
    Banuelos is a better prospect than anybody dealt in either of the Latos or Gio deals……
    _____
    QFT. GM’s don’t just assume the exchangeability of prospects in these deals like fans do. There is a reason that Banuelos wouldn’t be made available in such a deal. Sanchez too would not be a player Cashman would include, as interchangeable as people see him with Romine, it just won’t happen.

  559. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    YF -

    You may be correct. Like I said, here in NC they charge $12 – $15 for single a games, and they sell out most games. NC is a hot bed for baseball, and if a ML team ever moved here, say Charlotte, they’d do real well at the gate. We have football, BB and hockey, just no MLB, I was hoping the rumors of Tampa moving to Charlotte were true, I’d get tickets to see all the Yankees games here.

  560. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 11:12 am

    *interchangeability* I meant to say.

  561. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Big Al,

    I completely agree with your earlier post. The Yankees of the past 15 years would spend if needed to fill in gaps. They no longer will.

    And yes, I am talking about Mitchell, Warren and Phelps. They are not highly regarded. That may be able to start in the MLB. I hope they are because they are going to be needed when the usual pitching injuries and issues arise.

  562. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    If we sign Kuroda and Hughes comes back like some of us think/hope he can, why then Kuroda really lengthens the rotation.

  563. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:13 am

    “Anyone else think a 3 way trade makes sense between the Padres-Yankees-Cubs, with the key pieces being Garza headed to NY and Rizzo headed to the Cubs”

    I’ve mentioned that before and yea I kinda think its possible…..3 ways deals are tough to predict…the Padres would need to get a lot to make it worthwhile though and so would the Cubs as both are rebuilding ……so the Yanks may end up paying more in prospects with that route than just trading one on one with the Cubs.

  564. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Joe,

    But I would deal for Garza if Theo would accept a package centered on Montero instead of Banuelos. I don’t think he would. And to add on to something Mad Prince said last night, I think the front office is holding Montero if an elite pitcher like Felix, Josh Johnson, Cole Hamels or Matt Cain becomes available. If not, they sign Hamels, Cain or even Zack Greinke for 2013.

  565. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 11:15 am

    YF -

    I’m sure once they finish the refurb job on the SWB stadium, the ticket prices will go up. :)

  566. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Joe from Long Island,

    FYI: Betances is very adept at getting out LHB, against whom his curve is devastating.

  567. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Bret -

    Soory, but I’m glad you’re not the GM, giving up Montero for Garza is a bad deal.

  568. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    JFTR, Warren can throw in the mid-90s. He’s got an assortment of fastballs and changes speeds well and when he’s locating, he can work both sides nicely. He’s not going to command a great return in a trade, but teams will know he can get people out and he could be part of a package. Otherwise, he can help out at the back of the rotation, and as a long man.

    Useful pitcher.

    Have a good day, all.

  569. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Anyone else think a 3 way trade makes sense between the Padres-Yankees-Cubs, with the key pieces being Garza headed to NY and Rizzo headed to the Cubs

    ================================

    Not sure where involving the Padres and Rizzo would serve to reduce the demand for high end minor league pitching from the Yankees.

  570. Joe from Long Island December 29th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Brett – you sure don’t like Montero, do you, :)

    Honestly, I think there are a few issues here. One is price. Another is the dramatically increasing premium and importance being placed on young players – they more younger/athletic (esp. in the new post-PED society), cost controlled, and have their prime years to look forward to. Although the game is awash in $$$, the new CBA is blocking some teams, like the Yankees and Red Sox, from spending like drunken sailors due to concerns over a rapidly increasing luxury tax.

    That, and realizing that having the best roster doesn’t guarantee WS wins – witness the Cards two months ago.

    Sigh, Cash and Hal haven’t called me lately, so I don’t know for sure, but I think this is the new reality.

  571. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Big Al,

    Not a bad deal if you factor in Arod’s ailments, age and prognosis for full-time DH duty which may come sooner or later. Not if you factor in a long-term commitment to Russell Martin. And not if you consider Garza a clear number 2 which he is. He’s murder on lefties and would mow down Boston. Plus he has playoff experience and is AL East tested. I would trade Montero + filler for him but honestly Theo could do better elsewhere IMHO.

  572. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    *sooner than later.

  573. Joe from Long Island December 29th, 2011 at 11:22 am

    JAP – good to know, thanks.

    Brett, you sure don’t like Montero, do you :)

  574. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    J Al, you are already on my cookie list. That was an automatic.

    :)

    Why give up anything to get a player if you don’t really need him? I will never be sold on a one-year rental coming over from the NL West at the age of 37. Never ever ever ever ever.

    Kind of never.

    And here’s the risk. Giving up prospects you don’t need to give up!

    Anyway, if I’m proven wrong, then it’s all good anyway. Whatever the Yanks do always makes sense to me because they’ve proven to be much smarter than I at this stuff!!!

    :)

  575. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    “Not sure where involving the Padres and Rizzo would serve to reduce the demand for high end minor league pitching from the Yankees.”

    That depends on what they think of Rizzo Id say…..if you could work something where Rizzo, Warren, and Phelps went to the Cubs and Betances went to SD then that’s something you’d consider. I don’t know how they value Rizzo though and if that’d be enough for Theo……..or the Padres. Only way it makes sense is if Theo values Rizzo enough to keep the total pitching price for the Yanks down…….

  576. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 11:23 am

    I think Banuelos, barring injury, will be at least a quality MLB starter. He could be a very good one. He must be held onto.

    Betances may have more upside with his size and velocity. However, I think his likelihood of becoming a quality MLB pitcher is much lower. His control is an issue he still is fighting. Remember MLB hitters are far more selective and walk rates increase unless control improves.

    Despite not being a surefire catcher, Montero does have remarkable battting abilities. He showed a tendency to chase very bad breaking balls last year. But, he is young. If he swings at strikes, he will hit and hit well.

  577. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Montero is about as close to untouchable as a prospect can be for me…..

  578. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Also don’t think the Pads would be willing to part with Rizzo.

    Now going for real.

    LYA!!!

  579. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Bret -

    I would offer the Cubs, Warren, Noesi and a position player for Garza. I would offer to throw in AJ, taking back 1/2 his contract.

  580. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Im guessin’ Hal has earmarked roughly $4 Mill for either Jones or Naka, with Jones being the Yankee preference. Should Jones continue to play hard-to-get, Hal, (not wanting to lose out on both players), will sign Naka at the last minute, (next week), and wave goodbye to Jones. That should be the last significant $$$ spent onna player for the 2012 Yankee team. Once July 31 roles around, Cashman is gonna be looking for cheap Rent-A-Players in order to fill Yankee needs, and keep the $189\2014 goal within reach. No-Depost- No Return players will be in Cashman’s cross hair, and he will not sacrifice cheap, young, star players that will save the Yanks $$$ down the road. Upper mid-level prospects will be used outta the loaded Yankee Farm System to garner these Rentals. The Only player with a significant contract that Hal would consider trading for come July 31 would be Lincecum, and the deal would NOT be contingent upon an extension. The negotiations between SF and The Freak are beginning to get sticky, so this possibility does have legitimate merit. I do not see Hal doing likewise should Cain be thrown to the wolves.

  581. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    They should trade Montero for Joe Saunders.

  582. BIG AL December 29th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Got to go, later Y’all.

  583. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Hopefully, Cash got trading Montero out of his system. If not, we are in trouble.

  584. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Big Al,

    Theo could stumble upon a better offer if he fielded a call while tripping out on some rainforest mushroom he found soul-searching in Guatemala or wherever it is he disappeared to.

  585. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Yankeefeminista,

    No, the Yankees are not improving by inactivity. Right now, they don’t have Chavez, Jones or Colon. Each played a part in last years team. Pena and Maxwell fall far short of last year’s bench. Colon pitched great for half the season. Those wins still count.

    The only improvement I see is having Montero all year.

    To predict who will rebound and who will regress is very speculative. Granderson had a career year. Will he be as good? Will Teixiera rebound or continue his three year slide? Will AROD be better or worse? And on and on.

    Frankly, I would like some understganding of how losing players without adding is a good thing when none of the pitchers in MILB with good upsides are ready and the bench replacements are, to put it kindly, are questionable. .

  586. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Joe from LI,

    I like Montero but not for this team as currently configured and the main thing is I think offense is much easier to come by through money alone via free agency.

    However, at this point, my stance would be Montero + filler or bust. If other GM’s insist on Banuelos as the centerpiece, forget it. If other GM’s want Montero + other valuable pieces like Nunez, forget it. It’s Montero + filler for that starting pitcher or sacrifice one year (2012) and wait for Hamels, Cain or even Greinke. It’s not complicated. It just sucks they might have to roll the dice a second year in a row on a shaky rotation. And it is shaky.

  587. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    If they have 4 million earmarked for Jonesy…….Id rather roll the dice and give 5-7 million to Cespedes…..JMO

  588. Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 11:35 am

    I’m puzzled by all the sure thing in pitching people. The Yankees at present are six deep and that’s before Warren and the B’s. All pitchers go through, at least slumps during the season and some injuries. So you need to consider seven pitchers as your starting staff. By mid season the Yankee staff would be nine deep in both quality and quantity. Noesi is twenty five, hitting 98 on the gun and has pitched in the Majors. It’s time to plug him in much as Nova was last year, he’s ready. Holding him back for another year is plain dithering, they’ve already done that once. You start him at AAA and he’s the first call up if he doesn’t force his way onto the roster. It’s great to build up assets, at some point you have to use them or you’ve frithered away your chance by going for the sure thing.

  589. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Noesi is twenty five, hitting 98 on the gun and has pitched in the Majors. It’s time to plug him in much as Nova was last year, he’s ready

    Ready for what, throwing out his shoulder? Noesi is not ready for the workload that Nova put in last year at all. This is why he should be the 7th option, behind CC, Nova, Hughes, Garcia, Burnett and KU RO DA.

  590. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 11:42 am

    - BLAKE -
    Your talkin’ several years for Cespedes at that $4 Mill per. The Yanks do NOT want multi year committments on the books with 2014 in mind.

  591. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    As long as there’s a chance Noesi can pitch on par with Kuroda for 17 million less, Kuroda is not in the plans. I’ll take that 98 MPH fastball and the poise he showed in 2011.

  592. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    I would trade Banuelos and Betances in the same deal before Montero alone.

  593. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Noesi threw 160 innings in 2010…..I don’t think stretching him back out will be THAT big of a deal. With the innings he’s gotten in winter ball he should be able to go 150+ without issue. I wish they had just let him throw 180 at AAA last year…….but nothing you can do now.

  594. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    LGY, I wouldn’t trade any of the 3. And not for a #2.

  595. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Bo,

    The Yankees have AAA depth. What people, me included, want is a pitcher to pair with CC at the top of the rotation. I don’t see that pitcher. Then, the rest can compete for places 3-5.

    Blake, I also agree on taking a Cespedes risk. I just think he is very far from the Yankees mind and predict they will not be players. They will not assume a multi year debt. Heck, they aren’t willing, apparently, to assume a one year debt.

  596. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:49 am

    “Your talkin’ several years for Cespedes at that $4 Mill per. The Yanks do NOT want multi year committments on the books with 2014 in mind.”

    Yea but they waste that much every year on LOOGYs, 4th outfielders, etc…….it’d be a gamble but the payoff coukd be big and could lock up an outfield spot for years…..if they believe he can adjust to big league pitching its a worthwhile gamble

  597. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 11:50 am

    I don’t recall Noesi hitting 98 MPH at Any time last season. Must be that Winter Ball Scout named Gilligan that clocked Noesi at that figure. I hear he’s using some sorta contraption involving a coconut that was gerry-rigged by The Professor.

  598. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    I haven’t been around much lately, so I am sure this has been thoroughly discussed, but can someone explain to me how the Yanks will be both AL East competitive AND under the luxury tax threshold in 2014 when that means they will need to have signed 22 players for not more than $115MM, when one of those 22 players will be Robinson Cano?

  599. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    With or without Montero I think CC’s sidekick will be one of the following:

    Matt Garza
    Felix Hernandez
    Matt Cain
    Cole Hamels
    Zack Greinke
    Josh Johnson

    I just don’t want to ride a shaky rotation a second year in a row. It is what it is and I’ve accepted it. Or maybe I just drank too much green tea today.

  600. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    austinmac, you misinterpreted what I was saying. Inactivity is a form of taking action when you don’t overpay in a trade. That way we don’t delete something important that we don’t have to or shouldn’t give up. Letting players evolve is a form of improvement. Case in point, Nova. Obviously, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sign players to bolster the team–bench, Kuroda, etc. if it makes sense. I have said that over and over. Sign Kuroda, but don’t overpay for Garza. the point is, why make a move prematurely and potentially to our detriment, when we can wait, see what we have and survey the landscape and pounce on something better, if need be?

  601. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Noesi reportedly left last night’s game after 8 batters and in the middle of an inning. Has anyone heard more of this?

  602. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Phil Hughes threw 176 innings in 2010 and then 74 last year…..are they going to put him back on an innings limit too? Noesi and Hughes are roughly the same age……its go time with them if they are going to become big league starters….

  603. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    - BLAKE -
    “Go time” meaning trade bait.

  604. blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    “Go time” meaning trade bait.”

    No….meaning ifs time to start taking the training wheels off and seeing what they can do…..obviously this is the case with Hughes but Noesi is ready …..he just needs a chance to get a spot and learn

  605. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    yankeefeminsista,

    If I felt the yankees were sitting and ready to pounce I would feel differently. I think they are just sitting. I don’t expect anything better to magically appear now or at the trade deadline.

    They are, from all I have read and from my interpretation, unwilling to spend more money since they are close to their maximum budget.

    George made his fair share of mistakes, but we could always know he would try to do what it takes to put the best team on the field. Now, they will try but at limited cost. That is an enormous difference in success going forward.

  606. blake December 29th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    LGY,

    I probably would as well…..especially if its a pitcher you’re trading for.

  607. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    but can someone explain to me how the Yanks will be both AL East competitive AND under the luxury tax threshold in 2014

    How is this even a serious concern? The Yankees are the only team that operates at the salary level they do… why do they need a $200mil payroll to compete in a league with zero other $200mil teams? Are you seriously sitting there thinking “OMG if the Yankees don’t have a $200million payroll they will be AWFUL!”???

    They simply have to be smarter about who they sign going forward. Other teams make these decisions every day. What they will not be able to do is blow $40mil on the bullpen anymore, I don’t see how this is a bad thing.

  608. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    If you’re the Yankees and you have a 36 year old 3b on the verge of needing to DH sooner than later because of his assortment of recent ailments (hip, groin, knee, shoulder) a history of steroid abuse for an undetermined duration and you had Russell Martin locked up to a long term deal and somebody was offering you a 21 year old hitter who profiles as a DH you would not forfeit your top two pitching prospects to acquire him. Especially not when you can shop for a hitter or a DH for that matter on the free agent market and acquire him for money alone.

  609. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    austinmac,

    Hopefully he wasn’t injured…but I also figure you’re wondering if he was pulled because of some kind of trade in the works.

  610. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    “How is this even a serious concern? ”

    Because they need to sign 22 players for under $115MM, and one of them will be Robinson Cano. There’s no way the Yanks will be under the luxury tax threshold in 2014, IMO.

  611. blake December 29th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    “but can someone explain to me how the Yanks will be both AL East competitive AND under the luxury tax threshold in 2014″

    They’ll need some of their prospects to hit….they currently have 75 million committed to 2014…..and a big chunk of that will have to go to Cano at some point…..but its certainly possible if their prospects pan out……if they don’t then it’ll be difficult to do both.

  612. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    WHY – Why?! 29 other teams are able to sign 25 player for significantly less money. The Yankees can do the same. They just cane overpay to have the best at every position anymore. Boo freakin hoo.

  613. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    - BLAKE -
    I understood your meaning the 1st time. You guys have bandied about how whether the Yanks are decent at developing good SP’s, and I side with the guys that say they DO NOT. Cashman and Comp. have ruined Chamberlain, are now putting the finishing touches on Hughes, and just gettin’ started on putting the screws to Noesi. I say deal now, before these clowns further diminish the value of these players.

  614. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    BTW, Just read our Josh Norris “scout” on Bryan Mitchell. He raves about what a “really good arm” he has, yet has already decided, from watching him in SHORT SEASON, that he is destined for a career out of the bullpen.

    Nice.

    Check in later.

  615. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Are you counting Granderson towards 2014 because he can be spun for a boatload of prospects when his contract is nearing the end.

    Then again, can someone here name one single legitimate prospect Cashman has acquired from another team’s farm system?

  616. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    To trade Montero because Alex might have to DH some, makes no sense at all. None.

  617. blake December 29th, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Donny,

    Im hoping they have learned from those mistakes…..especially they made with Joba.

  618. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    By the way LGY, your views on Banuelos and Betances I pay no attention to, since you don’t really see them pitch, but in principle, I agree with that post of yours.

    Not that I would trade both or either, but I agree that Montero is the most important “prospect” to the Yankees this season and going forward. He shares that distinction, IMO with Cano.

  619. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    can someone here name one single legitimate prospect Cashman has acquired from another team’s farm system?

    Ted Lilly from the Irabu trade…

    Actualyl he’s the only one that comes to mind. Keep in mind though that they were not in the business of acquiring prospects for the last 15 years, they were in the business of selling them.

  620. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
    To trade Montero because Alex might have to DH some, makes no sense at all. None.
    ///

    No, and it doesn’t make any sense to the Yankees, I expect. Thank goodness.

    See you later.

  621. blake December 29th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    They should extend Cano now if they can to both attempt to reduce the total years and help them budget for 2014……but they wont……they’ll probably wait and then have 20 million to spend to stay under and he’ll want 21 to sign.

  622. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    By the way LGY, your views on Banuelos and Betances I pay no attention to, since you don’t really see them pitch

    This couldn’t possibly be more rude or shortsighted, kudos Prufrock.

  623. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    Are you counting Granderson towards 2014 because he can be spun for a boatload of prospects when his contract is nearing the end.

    =================================

    Only way Granderson can be spun for a boatload of prospects is if you spin him now, which I don’t see happening.

  624. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    ANY, talk of trading ANY player, NOW must also be viewed with the bottom line\2014 in mind. It’s that simple. Trading away a cheap player like Montero has to make sence with both the roster AND 2014 in mind.

  625. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    You’re right. To trade Montero just because makes no sense. But nobody said you’d be trading him for nothing and simply dumping him to clear DH for Arod. The idea in a trade is you fill a need. DH is not a need on this team. Period. Banuelos is the most valuable commodity in the system because right now pitching is a need.

  626. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    “WHY – Why?! 29 other teams are able to sign 25 player for significantly less money. The Yankees can do the same. They just cane overpay to have the best at every position anymore. Boo freakin hoo.”

    Let’s be serious for a second. All 29 other teams would not be competitive in the AL East. Right now there are 14 teams in the AL, and only 6 of them would be, to my thinking, competive in the AL East. 3 of those 6 are in the AL East. Now, the Yanks will be paying $47.5MM to ARod and Tex in 2014. Do you think they’ll get $47.5MM in production from them? They will have CC, and let’s say they sign Cano for $23MM. Then they’ll need to field a AL East style competitive team for $92MM. That would be a huge challenge for any team.

  627. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    since you don’t really see them pitch

    ——-

    Does this mean when I’ve seen them pitch it wasn’t under the mythical trance you watch them in?

  628. Jerzz December 29th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Don’t forget that Granderson is FA too in a couple of years. They’ll need someone to replace Swisher (or sign him to an extension for about the same $$$ he is making now).

    Cano has Boras as an agent and will demand a mega extension. And if Montero hits as well as you guys think he will, he is going to clean up in arbitration when he is eligible in 2014 (or ’15).

    Won’t Robertson be a FA then too and need to be re-signed at “closer” money? They’ll need a SS to replace Jeter too. Gardner is probably not going to be around then, so who plays LF? If they sign Martin to an extension, that eats up $$$ as well.

    It is pure fantasy that they are at $178 in 2014 unless they don’t resign any FAs (Grandy, Swisher, a pitcher, LF, etc.) and utilize their farm almost exclusively to fill holes.

  629. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    So this 2014 thing is a bluff?

  630. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    WYH – I am being totally serious… the difference between a $200mil payroll and a $170mil payroll is one stupid bad contract. Marte + Feliciano + Soriano + Burnett… there’s $40mil right off the top.

    They will have absolutely no problem fielding a competitive team under the cap. Mind you that the St Louis Cardinals fielded a pretty competitive team last year for well under $100mil.

    You are forgetting that Boston will be limited by som degree by this cap as well, and the necessary “level to compete” will be lower going forward with this cap in place.

  631. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    Mad Prince,

    I was concerned about injury when he is removed. Of course, an injury may be one that is gone in a few days. It makes me worry a bit since Noesi is critical to rotation depth.

    Donnybrook,

    It was Cashman who said Noesi threw 98 in the winter league. I too never saw anything approaching that this year even out of the pen.

  632. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Let’s get real here. the Yankees are basically theatre. You wanna attract paying customers? Well you better be running an A-List performance, involving A-List Stars in order to do that. It’s that simple though it does get very expensive.

  633. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    Bret, Montero is more important to the Yankees than any other prospect that we have. He has more value to us and is more irreplaceable than Banuelos.

  634. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    - austinmac -
    Cashman doing his best Bill Veeck routine in order to inflate a guys value. Hogwash

  635. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    LGY December 29th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
    since you don’t really see them pitch

    ——-

    Does this mean when I’ve seen them pitch it wasn’t under the mythical trance you watch them in?
    ///

    No, LGY, it refers to the mythical starts of your “favorite prospect” Betances, which you’ve attended ;) .

  636. blake December 29th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    I don’t think its a bluff ……I think they really want to get under that number for obvious reasons by 2014…..that said…..I think they are kidding themselves if they think they can stay under that number if they aren’t also putting a championship caliber team on the field ……the fans wont accept it and they’ll lose more money than they save.

  637. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    WYH – Long story short, the problem you are are not getting past is that the Yankees put themselves in this bad situation over and over the last 10 years with overpriced contracts… and they ended up needing a $200mil payroll to compete because of all of the bad money they spent.

    Almost every one of those bad deals will be gone, they will have 4 or 5 large contracts in 2014 and the rest will be filler, just like a regular team.

    This by no means suggests they won’t be a competitive team. They are just operating at a level closer to the rest of the league. They are still going to be $50mil stronger than any other team in the league.

  638. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    No, LGY, it refers to the mythical starts of your “favorite prospect” Betances, which you’ve attended

    I would say “attending” a start in no way qualifies you to evaluate it so.. what on earth are you talking about?

    You are not a scout, your opinion on Betances is no more valid than LGY’s… so stop acting like it is.

  639. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Prufrock

    Sorry, my bacon intake combats Betances’ trance. Sabermetric home remedy.

    Just curious. How many times did you see Betances and Banuelos last season?

  640. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
    Bret, Montero is more important to the Yankees than any other prospect that we have. He has more value to us and is more irreplaceable than Banuelos.
    ///

    This. But I think there’s really only one regular here (or maybe 1.5) who doesn’t at least partially recognize that.

    Off the Small World :D . Good one, Yankeefem.

  641. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    ID-

    I’m just not seeing it (and I’m assuming the luxury tax threshold in 2014 will be $189MM. If it’s less, it’s just that much harder). I’m not seeing where the offense is coming from outside of Montero. Both Banuelos and Betances will have to be very good starters. Who will have replaced Mo and for how much? $95MM just doesn’t go that far.

  642. Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    This team does not need a DH. This team needs top rotation starting pitching. So Banuelos has a huge head start on being a guy you keep. If you have a choice between trading Baneulos + Betances for a starter vs. Montero for a starter, you trade Montero for the starter and fill DH with money alone. It’s a real simple, easy equation.

  643. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    *Off TO Small WOrld. late :(

  644. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    ID:

    I think for now that Wave has it right. It’s not so much squeezing 24 players into $190M, it’s squeezing the 20 who aren’t named Rodriguez, Teixeira, Cano and Sabathia, into $90M-$100M.

    I see your argument that everyone should have such troubles, but when you’re carrying 4-5 of those monster contracts, it’s a tight squeeze.

  645. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    The cap issue with the Yankees is problematic because of AROD’s and Teixiera’s contracts. They use up $50+M by themselves. Add CC’s contract and Cano’s expected contract and they are will be over $100M on four players.

    I think fielding a good team while paying 36 more players less than $90M will not be easy. It means no more expensive additions and maybe no more mid-priced additions.

  646. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    I saw a bank on my drive to work today… now I am a banker. Since I saw a bank and you didn’t, I obviously know more about money than you.

    Ridiculous.

  647. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    I’m really not sure why you all are discussing the Yankees’ payroll or trying to avoid luxury tax payments. Who cares??? they can afford to pay top dollar when the need is significant. that’s an advantage they have (and something of a disadvantage because every FA and their Agent knows as much too). I could care less if they have a $200M payroll or a $400M payroll as long as they win.

    With that said, they don’t need to spend as much as they do to be competitive and that is probably why they are being more scrupulous when evaluating FAs and what they’re willing to pay to acquire them.

  648. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    austinmac – So are you actually suggesting that it is impossible to field a competitive team for $120mil?

    This 2014 cap nonsense needs to stop, and soon.

    My prediction? They go under for one season to reset the penalty and they are right back over the cap the next year. All this bellyaching is much ado about nothing, the only people that have a problem with it are the people that think the Yankees need an All-Star at every position to “compete”. What a joke.

  649. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 29th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Is there something I am missing regarding a salary cap??? Last I checked, there was no salary cap in baseball…

  650. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    What if Cole Hamels hits the market?

    Do they pass because of 2014?

  651. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    2014 = $50 Mill stronger than the R\Sox? NOPE.

  652. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Donnybrook – 2014 = $50 Mill stronger than the R\Sox? NOPE.

    Who cares? They will simply be better than the RedSox… payroll will have less to do with it and they’ll have one less excuse to use.

  653. blake December 29th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    If the Yanks have a chance to sign Hamels and don’t because of the payroll……then that’ll represent a real change in how they do business and really their priorities as an organization.

  654. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    You did say “any team in the league”, and I let you slide with Texas.

  655. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Mad Prince:

    In the new CBA, there is a tie between revenue sharing and exceeding the luxury threshold that has not existed in previous agreements. It’s not a salary cap per se, but it does, on many levels, create the effect of one.

  656. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    The RedSox are in considerably worse shape for 2014 than the Yankees are, yet the Yankees are the only team that will have trouble “competing” with this soft cap? What a joke. Some of you are really off your rocker.

  657. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
    This team does not need a DH. This team needs top rotation starting pitching. So Banuelos has a huge head start on being a guy you keep. If you have a choice between trading Baneulos + Betances for a starter vs. Montero for a starter, you trade Montero for the starter and fill DH with money alone. It’s a real simple, easy equation.
    ___________
    First of all, you are assuming Montero is “just a DH.” Secondly, you are underrating the impact of his bat, which likely could be a once in a decade bat that hits both for average and obscene power to all fields. You get that bat in the lineup anyway you can. Third, if you are dealing for a pitcher who warrants trading an A pitching prospect for, then trading a pitcher for a pitcher makes much more sense than trading a special bat, and a bat that will be in your lineup every day vs. a pitcher who can only help you every five days. You continue to egregiously underrate what Montero brings to our old, slow bat speed lineup.

  658. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    donnybrook – When you learn to stop looking for one single exception to a statement, like that disproves anything… we may be friends. Until then…

  659. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    I just do NOT see Philly letting Hamels go. They will re-upp the guy. Lincecum is a legitimate possibility wothy of consideration.

  660. blake December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    The Astros kicked off a new era when they hired Jeff Luhnow to be their new GM earlier this month, and now they’re looking to fill out the rest of their front office. Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports report that the Astros have interviewed ESPN’s Keith Law for a number of front office roles, including the position of scouting director. They have not yet made him an offer, however.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    Lol…..is the team chef position available?

  661. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    First of all, you are assuming Montero is “just a DH.”

    As you are assuming he will Catch some day

    Secondly, you are underrating the impact of his bat, which likely could be a once in a decade bat that hits both for average and obscene power to all fields.

    no more than you are currently “overrating” it. This ride goes both ways.

    Third, if you are dealing for a pitcher who warrants trading an A pitching prospect for, then trading a pitcher for a pitcher makes much more sense than trading a special bat, and a bat that will be in your lineup every day vs. a pitcher who can only help you every five days.

    Statistical fallacy.

  662. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    I gave you 2, but whose counting?

  663. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    No way we pass on Hamels.

  664. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Donnybrook – I gave you 2, but whose counting?

    Exactly the type of response I am talking about, clown.

  665. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    What if Cole Hamels hits the market?

    Do they pass because of 2014?

    ===============================

    Probably not. However, if they do end up signing him, you are probably waving goodbye to Granderson (who I think they let go to free agency anyway) and resigning yourself very inexpensive and not necessarily blessed with great talent types in your regular lineup.

  666. DONNYBROOK December 29th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    You keep it up, I’ll let The Beret loose on ya. Your being Far too sensitive.

  667. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    ID, lol, as you are underrating his bat; yes it goes both ways. I seen this movie already, his name is Cano, and everybody wanted him traded. As for statistical fallacies, whose subjective statistical fallacy are we referring to this time? :D

  668. Stoneburner December 29th, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
    No way we pass on Hamels.

    *******

    Depends on how much the Yankees value him and how much Hamels asks for. Yanks rarely go all in no limit anymore as they did w/ Sabathia.

  669. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    if they can get Garza for 2nd line minor league SP fine but would still go after Kuroda?

  670. Jacques Strappe December 29th, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Betances may be a little wild at times now, but it’s hard to know what it means down the road. Especially considering his size.

    Randy Johnson had a tendency to be wild early in his career. From 90-92 he led the AL in walks, and 92-93 he led the league in hit batters. But I’m sure everyone remembers him being one of the premier pitchers in the league (both leagues actually) for several seasons running in his pre-Yanks career. During that run he could be ‘effectively wild’ too.

    Could Betances become the next Unit? Not saying that. Sure, I’d love to see him become anything resembling The Big Unit as long as he did it in pinstripes. Just saying it’s hard to predict what a little erraticness will mean for a guy like that.

    Hopefully they give him enough time to show what direction he may be going in and (hopefully again) he can keep improving every year. I think they should see if he can become reliable in terms of innings & quality starts of course he’s worth keeping. That’s more than what we’ve see from half of the starters for a while. If Betances is not expected to be the next ace or the next ‘Unit’ right out of the blocks, he could begin to surprise us in a few years.

    Maybe it’s not fair but from what I’ve read of them both, I admit that I expect more from Banuelos than Betances, and sooner. Not CC/Felix Hernandez stuff, but it sounds like he really could be one of our best 2-3 starting pitchers in just 3-4 more years and he’s mechanically sound in ways that don’t usually leads to injuries. The expectations & hype for Banuelos sounds less like expectations & hype than it does a legit analysis of what he is, and it’s a good bet that he’ll become a good pitcher. With Betances it feels more like the kid really does has a lot of upside, but there’s a lot of speculation that goes along with that.

  671. REZ12 December 29th, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    “What if Cole Hamels hits the market?

    Do they pass because of 2014?”

    If you listen to some here Betances can be a cheaper better version of Cole Hamels with his 3 plus pitches and 100 MPH fastball

  672. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    donny – I’m interested to see why you think the Rangers will be increasing their Payroll by $40mil so they can be part of your “list” proving me wrong…

    yankeefeminista – I seen this movie already, his name is Cano
    The list of “can’t miss” prospects that fail is considerably larger than the list of ones that succeed. it’s great that you are so positively enthralled with Montero, but you need to temper some expectations or you are only setting yourself up for disappointment. Unless he shows up as Frank Thomas (read: not bloody likely), him strictly being a DH will be a waste of talent and resources.

  673. Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Just popping in – re sure thing pitching. Due to no sure thing in pitching, you need quantity and the Yankees have that in quality. There is no need to rush. See what you have in the spring.

    As to Yankee pitching development – the biggest sin is letting Hughes, the top starting pitching prospect in the nation arrive in the Majors with two pitches and a half assed cutter that he had just learned. Heads should have rolled. Basically Hughes is another Burnett, as soon as the velocity drops he’s in trouble.

  674. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    CC
    Garza
    Nova
    Kuroda
    AJ

  675. yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Montero is not some A ball prospect. He is already showing what he can do in the majors, and it is not unexpected, and certainly not by anyone who has seen him play. Therefore, I don’t think I need to temper my expectations, as much as others need to raise theirs.

    As for prematurely relegating Montero to DH status, I don’t share that viewpoint. Nor do I share the viewpoint that if Montero mostly DH’s, he loses all his value, especially not on a team like the Yankees that sorely needs the kind of situational hitting, bat speed and power that Montero offers. You need to evaluate not only Montero’s abilities, which you clearly underrate, but also how Montero’s talents fit into the Yankees lineup, as a whole.

  676. Best To Ever Do It December 29th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    # Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Just popping in – re sure thing pitching. Due to no sure thing in pitching, you need quantity and the Yankees have that in quality. There is no need to rush. See what you have in the spring.

    As to Yankee pitching development – the biggest sin is letting Hughes, the top starting pitching prospect in the nation arrive in the Majors with two pitches and a half assed cutter that he had just learned. Heads should have rolled. Basically Hughes is another Burnett, as soon as the velocity drops he’s in trouble.

    ——————————————–

    Do you think he’ll bounce back this season?

  677. spidanyc December 29th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    is Garza a Yankee yet?

  678. RhapsodyInBlue December 29th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Jacques Strappe the Yankee basher from BDC??

    Even the same spelling.

  679. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    no but Gardner still is

  680. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    if they can get Garza for 2nd line minor league SP fine

    ========================

    They can’t.

  681. spidanyc December 29th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Imagine the Red Sox get Garza….

    Beckett – CC
    Lester – Nova
    Garza – Garcia
    Bucholz – AJ
    Aceves – Hughes

  682. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    dogface December 29th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    if they can get Garza for 2nd line minor league SP fine

    ========================

    They can’t.
    ———————————
    OK Theo

  683. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Imagine the Red Sox get Garza

    ======================

    They can’t either, IMO.

  684. Jacques Strappe December 29th, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    What could Cashman get in return for AJ?
    Maybe a ’54 Studebaker with minimal rust but it still runs?
    I’d buy THAT for a dollar.
    Or enough of them to cover AJ’s salary.

  685. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Article on Dante Bichette and a couple of others.

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....um=twitter

  686. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Bueller? Bueller?

  687. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Did everyone go to lunch at the same time? :p

  688. Shame Spencer December 29th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    I’d say the Red Sox don’t have enough prospects to get Garza but didn’t they just get Bailey for a bag of balls and a milkshake or something?

  689. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    If I were Boston (or a Boston fan) I wouldn’t be too excited about what Beane took for Bailey. Red Flags everywhere for a pitcher that has been hurt the last 2 seasons.

  690. Shame Spencer December 29th, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Yeah something just didn’t jive, ID. I’m always weary of BP arms anyway… especially ones that play in that ballpark. Not sure how Bailey will fair in Fenway, tbh.

  691. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    If I were Boston (or a Boston fan) I wouldn’t be too excited about what Beane took for Bailey. Red Flags everywhere for a pitcher that has been hurt the last 2 seasons

    ========================

    Wouldn’t be turning cartwheels, but ow risk for what will probably be some reward. Certainly made more sense than giving Papelbon 4/$52M.

  692. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    ow = low

  693. Phranchise December 29th, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    I just don’t get how the Yankees can’t justify overpaying for Kuroda to sure up a SP rotation for next year. The downside risk that you end up short at starter and then you are forced to either bring up a youngster too quickly and or you have to overpay in a trade to try and land someone. Ultimately the Yankees miss out on a ton of revenue by not making the playoffs. So just pony up the money now and save yourself the grief later. We tried the hope thing the year Hughes, Kennedy and Joba were big pieces to the team success. We tried it again last year banking on a rebound AJ year, Colon and Garcia. Got lucky there. The Sox tried it the year they had Smoltz, Colon and others and failed miserably. And then last year got caught short, so even with the money spent, couldn’t get back to the post season. I am not saying it can’t work again, but it’s like a game of chicken assuming guys will remain healthy.

  694. Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    I’m on record two years ago that I was higher on Nova than Hughes on another forum and had a two day firestorm to show for it. The same applies to Noesi – due to a more varied toolbox ie more pitches. Hughes has been dinking around with a changeup for years. All kinds of also ran pitchers have given the Yankees hitters fits and this is one of the top hitting lineups in the Majors.

    This is totally on the Yankees development program. I think Hughes can come back but he needs another breaking pitch – Change Up, Forkball, something other than that slow curve he showed last year.

  695. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    A long question and answer interview with Mariana Bichette

    http://mlbreports.com/2011/12/.....interview/

  696. austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    ID,

    Nowhere did I say it was impossible for the Yankees to win. What I said was it would be difficult and they would need to change how they have always done business.

    If the Yankees needed a closer and got Bailey for cheap you would be saying how smart Cashman was. Now, that the Sox got him for cheap that is a sign he is hurt.

    Somehow, reality should come into play, but I expect that is asking far too much.

  697. Phranchise December 29th, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Hughes did just fine with two fastballs, the cutter and the tighter curve/change. The offspeed will come along. It comes down to him being healthy and aggressive. When he is both, he has been dominant. Sometimes keeping it simple is best and few power pitchers have a full arsenal of pitches. It’s about mixing it up and location with him. You see the days where the swings and misses are there and other times when he can’t just get that final strike. He is still developing as a pitcher. The same as Nova. They are only a year apart in age so I expect both of them to continue to get better into their prime years. We are just used to Hughes since he has been up for a few years now.

  698. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Yeah something just didn’t jive, ID. I’m always weary of BP arms anyway… especially ones that play in that ballpark. Not sure how Bailey will fair in Fenway, tbh

    =====================================

    Bailey has no noticeable split issues. In fact, his ERA was better on the road than it was in the OACC. Fly ball pitcher at Fenway isn’t good, but Papelbon was one too and he made out OK. Both right and left handed bats hit under .200 against him, but lefthanders seem to do it with a little more power.

  699. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    it’s like the Yankees signed Hideki Okajima and fans say he may come into play here in the 12 season, same fans saying Sox had him he sucked

  700. Phranchise December 29th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    I would have been much more upset if the Sox landed Soria over Bailey. I like Bailey, but injury history, pitchers ballpark, the fact more teams weren’t in on him for the price and Beane typically will hold a guy rather than part with him for less than he wants. Did Beane potentially fear that Bailey was worth more now before the chance of hurting himself again? I mean since he is under team control wouldn’t teams in need of a closer or reliever give him just as much at the deadline this year?

  701. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    The season hasn’t started yet & the Yanks have 6 SP ready to be used when it does.

    The Yanks have a complete BP with even a couple of extra LOOGYs to see if they work out.

    The Yanks have a new replacement DH who has shown tremdous promise as a replacement for a declining Posada.

    The Yanks have their entire startling lineup back who led the majors (or near the top) in all offensive categories. Note this was done without much contribution from DH & an injured ARod.

    The Yanks so far have lost A Jones & Chavez (who was hurt a bit last yr anyway) and have time to fill these spots perhaps with the same 2.

    The way I see it is the Yanks have a wealth of depth. (Nunez, Laird, Romine, DJ Mitchell, Phelps, Betances, Joba, Banuelos, etc)

    Things look pretty good to me. Standing pat so to speak is not really that with the Yanks as so many MiLB players are ready to move up, especially pitchers. IMO, the Yanks need 1 OF (A Jones type) & maybe they go a few weeks with Maxwell to see if he can handle things. This slot should not be hard to fill later if necessary. Nunez as an inf/of may even fill it or perhaps even Laird. Actually, I would prefer Nunez to A Jones, but perhaps that is my desire to see fore of Nunez & his bat/speed on bases.

    It is not like we need to fill the roles for Dice-K, Lackey, Papelbohn, Drew, Reddick, Lowrie, & V-Tek. (Note V-Tek, Lowrie & Lackey did pretty good against the Yanks.) The RSox also are depending on a lot of guys who have been hurt a lot lately to stay healthy too. (Bucky, Beckett, Lester, Youk, Bailey, etc) Lastly, guys like Ortiz & Scutaroo are being depended upon even more & Ortiz was almost shipped out a couple of yrs ago. He might get caught a few shakes shy of a full DH! LOL!

  702. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Yankees will need to rest Martin more often this year, or maybe not use him so much in the beginning of the year as they did last year

  703. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    have to believe AROD will DH a lot more …Montero will get AB’s but it will remain to see how many,,,really don’t see how a # can be put on it

  704. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Is there any reason to think Girardi will let Montero catch more than 10% of the time?

    It seemed obvious to me that Girardi wants Romine catching and Montero to occasionally DH.

    I wonder if Cashman will mandate anything or let Joe make the decisions.

  705. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Earlier, I linked an article on Bichette, but, there were others included and this comment by Mark Newman on Montero. The article is not written by a Yankee beat writer

    “Montero’s future in the Majors is still to be decided, with some seeing him as more of a designated hitter rather than splitting time with Russell Martin behind the plate. Newman is still optimistic, though, after Montero posted a .997 fielding percentage and made just two errors at Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre in 2011. He threw out about 25 percent of would-be base-stealers while batting .288 with 18 homers and 67 RBIs.

    “Montero showed substantial growth defensively,” said Newman. “Enhanced defense due in part to his improved quickness and flexibility.”

  706. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Earlier, I linked an article on Bichette, but, there were others included and this comment by Mark Newman on Montero. The article is not written by a Yankee beat writer

    “Montero’s future in the Majors is still to be decided, with some seeing him as more of a designated hitter rather than splitting time with Russell Martin behind the plate. Newman is still optimistic, though, after Montero posted a .997 fielding percentage and made just two errors at Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre in 2011. He threw out about 25 percent of would-be base-stealers while batting .288 with 18 homers and 67 RBIs.

    “Montero showed substantial growth defensively,” said Newman. “Enhanced defense due in part to his improved quickness and flexibility.”
    ——————————————–
    but also seen scouting reports around that he hasn’t improved at all…..can you imagine him catching AJ who’s all over the place with his breaking balls

  707. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    will get a better handle on Montero and his catching in SP where you have to believe he’ll catch a lot…..still don’t understand why no winter ball for him

  708. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    thats ST

  709. dogface December 29th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Is there any reason to think Girardi will let Montero catch more than 10% of the time?

    ======================

    Not sure there’s a reason to think one way or another on this topic yet. Wouldn’t seem to serve his development as a catcher to have him catch only 20 games, but I’d imagine that’s of greater concern to Cashman than it is Girardi. It’ll be interesting to see.

  710. Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    I think the Yankee fans mindset has to change. This is five years of building a scouting system coming to fruition. Maybe a case of wedding day nerves. Instead of celebrating the successful prep work it’s the jitters. The Yankees have extensive depth and they showed it last year. A Rod, Jeter, Hughes, Joba etc went down and they just plugged in the sub and kept on trucking. This is invaluable to get to the show.

    Other teams are struggling to find five starting pitchers or a couple of BP arms, the Yankees have to arrange a work schedule for an embarasment of riches. Where’s the beef?

  711. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Boston takes a step back after their flourish on spine tingling improvements. They are in need of many things, including right field. Either re-sign JD Drew and hope or pray that they get Kalish back sooner rather than later. He just had shoulder surgery and most likely not be ready for to open the season.

  712. Patrick December 29th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    GB7,

    Thanks for posting the interview with Mariana Bichette, it’s a unique look at a type of person we never get to hear from. Unless you count Anna Benson that is..

  713. Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    GB

    Thanks for the M Bichette interview. An amazing family. Bichette has a family and a good life, A Rod is dating Ms Galaxy, the wrestling queen, in Boise. Bloody hilarious. As she said, Dante left millions on the table by not doing steroids. That family reminds me of Truman – Left the Whitehouse and drove to Missouri.

    “If you can deal with triumph and disaster and treat these two imposters, both the same”.

  714. Patrick December 29th, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Also I have to say, Mariana Bichette is hot. Dante sr. did good

  715. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Bo,

    Mariana Bichette is quite a character. Smart woman. I’m sure that she might come off as the “Hollywood stage mother”, but, it’s more like doing what many parents fail to do….teach your kids how to deal with growing up. She’s kept them out of trouble and explained all of the things that can get teenagers in trouble. Seems as though the Bichettes have done well in raising their kids.

  716. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    austinmac – If the Yankees needed a closer and got Bailey for cheap you would be saying how smart Cashman was. Now, that the Sox got him for cheap that is a sign he is hurt. Somehow, reality should come into play, but I expect that is asking far too much.

    OK, well… in reality Bailey has been injured for 2 years because apparently a relievers workload is too much for his arm… and I never would have wanted the Yankees to sign him in the first place, damn the cost.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ds-bailey/

  717. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    dogface – His ERA was lower on the road for some reason… looks like luck to me.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ds-bailey/

  718. Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    I coached some Hockey and got to know quite a few hockey mums. Hockey, also has become a very expensive sport. Respect the hell out of those families that give up a lot of their lives to let their kids live a dream. It’s a whole culture. They’re a lot of fun when things are going well.

  719. 108 stitches December 29th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Cashman can’t be taken over hot coals for not landing another arm from outside of the organization.
    He’s probably tried everything short of trickery to jettison Burnett and Hal Steinbreinner has likely given him a figure of what’s acceptable to be eaten.
    Until then, Cashman is handcuffed.

  720. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    If the Yanks needed a closer I’d think Cashman would have done good to get Bailey for so little, but I still would have wanted a BU plan better than Melancon. You see I would have wanted Papelbohn just like I wanted the Yanks to sign Mo! Yes I was also in favor of the Soriano signing & I still am.

  721. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Bailey has had issues last two seasons, he’s worth a shot though & bottom line they will not miss any of the players they gave up for him

  722. tomingeorgia December 29th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    GB7,
    You around?

  723. disco stu December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    “The season hasn’t started yet & the Yanks have 6 SP ready to be used when it does”

    RavVT -

    But other than CC are you truly comfortable with who they have? Of the quintet behind our ace, who do you have faith in start in/start out? Are we ready to say Nova is a fixture in the rotation after one full season? Can Garcia keep pushing back Father Time? AJ and Hughes have a ton to prove and Noesi is an unknown.

    So just because they have 6 warm bodies doesnt mean that there is a ton of quality amongst them.

    In terms of quality, they are still one, reliable, veteran pitcher short in my mind and have been ever since Andy retired.

  724. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    bottom line they will not miss any of the players they gave up for him

    … unless one of them turns out to be a good player. What makes you so certain of the demise of the players they traded away? Just because a player is not named Jesus?

  725. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    disco stu – LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace? Every team has the same questions and concerns that you do with Nova/Hughes/Garcia/Burnett… all of whom have been successful previously.

  726. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    bottom line they will not miss any of the players they gave up for him

    … unless one of them turns out to be a good player. What makes you so certain of the demise of the players they traded away? Just because a player is not named Jesus?
    ———————————————————–
    your right Boston gave up a boatload for Bailey…..that better for you ?

  727. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    disco stu December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Bottom line, I am ready to get through April at least with these guys.

    I am confident of CC, Nova & Garcia. I believe Hughes will fare well & I am hoping for Burnett. I trust Noesi as a SP really above Garcia. That said if things go south quickly the Yanks have AAA options to see if they can hold the fort down & possible trade chips. I also feel really comfortable with at least one of the B’s contributing or at least able to contribute after AS break. Additionally I would love to see Joba get a shot again at SP.

    That is a lot of options. $17M for Kuroda does not make me feel good & I am not sure he would be effective more than the rest of the group already available. Garza worries me as I wasn’t impressed with him last year in Chicago especially the 1st half.

  728. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    disco stu December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    I guess what I’m saying is the guys in the rotation at the start of the year may not be the same at the end of the year & I trust the Yanks can do something if need be to correct any issue along the way. (Trade, promotion or position change like Joba to rotation.)

  729. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    joeman – Or you could stop worrying about what they gave up? They got an injury prone closer with home/road splits that indicate he will not be as good as he was in Oakland. He has a 5 K/BB in Oakland… 2 on the road… that means he was pitching completely different at home because of the “safety” of the park. I expect a big jump in his ERA this season.

    They gave up an injured prospect and some other random players… not really a big deal.

  730. REZ12 December 29th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    If the Yankees got Bailey for Chris Dickerson and some rookie ball players, people here would be doing backflips…

  731. Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Good grief.

    What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?

  732. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Boston named America’s drunkest city.

    http://www1.whdh.com/news/arti.....kest-city/

  733. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Hiroki Kuroda’s agent Steve Hilliard told Sponichi that they are getting closer and closer to making a final decision. He also said that, “Kuroda is currently at the stage where he is exploring all his options, both Hiroshima and the MLB. It will be a tough decision to make.”

    I wonder if there are no 12M offers out there. Does he take less to play for the Yankees or a lot less to go back to Japan?

  734. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Good grief.

    What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?
    ——————————————-
    reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year

  735. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Yankee Trader December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Hiroki Kuroda’s agent Steve Hilliard told Sponichi that they are getting closer and closer to making a final decision. He also said that, “Kuroda is currently at the stage where he is exploring all his options, both Hiroshima and the MLB. It will be a tough decision to make.”

    I wonder if there are no 12M offers out there. Does he take less to play for the Yankees or a lot less to go back to Japan?
    ——————————
    YT…my bet he’s going home

  736. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Hiroyuki Nakajima has until January 6th to sign with the Yankees. Sounds like Cashman is waiting for this to resolve before pursuing other bench options.

  737. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Joeman-

    That could be. The Diamondbacks and Rockies have pursued other players and the Red Sox should be maxed out salary/luxury tax wise, plus who wants to play in the “drunkest” city in the world.

    Yankees get Kuroda for 7-8M, vesting option for a 2nd year, or does he go back to Japan for maybe half of that?

  738. Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year

    They also wasted tons of money and didn’t win much for it.

  739. Abomb82 December 29th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    “disco stu – LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace?”

    Other AL contenders have surer-things than we do.

    Red Sox #2 far exceeds the Yankees #2. A healthy Buchholz is better than anyone on that list ). If the Sox sign Kuroda/Oswalt, I’d take them over Hughes/Burnett in a heartbeat.

    I’d take the Tigers 1-2-3 over the Yankees. Texas doesn’t have anyone as good as CC, but I’d take the remainder of their staff over ours. Darvish being good could widen the gap even more.

    Angels and Tampa no question. Go to the NL I’d take the staffs of PHI, SF, WSH, STL, ATL, over ours as well….

    Who cares if we have a better rotation than Minnesota or Kansas City… the teams we’re contending with all have equal or better staffs than us on paper…

    We have an absolute 0 in Burnett manning one spot. Nova is hard to trust with how much contact he allows, and who actually thinks Garcia will be anything more than serviceable? If Hughes isn’t rehabbing or fighting through a dead arm and diminished velocity, he will forever be inconsistant until he develops some secondary stuff…. not exactly the 1945 Indians in this group….

  740. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    “I wonder if there are no 12M offers out there. Does he take less to play for the Yankees or a lot less to go back to Japan?”

    ————

    Teams seem willing to pay a little more per year for short-term commitments these days as teams are, rightly so, afraid of long term commitments to pitchers.

    I’d be surprised if he couldn’t land $12M on a 1 year deal – considering some teams were willing to give up second tier prospects at the deadline last season plus pick up the remainder of his nearly $12M salary.

    But you never know…

    I still think the Yanks should sign the guy if he wants to play in NY for one season. They aren’t going to get many lower risk signings because it’s very unusual to get a proven guy on a one year deal.

  741. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    “A healthy Buchholz is better than anyone on that list”

    ————–

    Buchholz has one healthy season. You could argue that Hughes wasn’t healthy last season either.

    I tend to agree with you on Buchholz, but it’s very difficult to suggest that his one good season wasn’t a bit fluky or that he’ll be healthy to begin with (not that you are doing that.)

  742. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    “Other AL contenders have surer-things than we do.”

    ————–

    you could have said the same thing last year.

    As has been discussed, the reason the Yankees lost last year had just as much to do with a lack of timely hitting as it did with pitching.

    I’d love the Yanks to improve their rotation, but the “Yanks rotation isn’t as good as anybody else” argument went out the window a bit after they had the best record in the league last year.

    Angels and potentially the Rangers sure look good on paper though. Gonna be a fun season.

  743. Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Good grief.

    What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?
    ——————————————-
    reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year

    ———–

    It is indeed for nothing.

    Many fans here were restless this time last season and all the whining was all for naught after watching the Yanks win the division and the ’27 Yankees-esque Red Sox fell on their faces.

    The Boss was an outstanding business man. But he was not a smart baseball man. Made tons of bad moves and wasted tons of money.

  744. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Abomb82 December 29th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Do you mean the 1954 Indians?

  745. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    BD-

    Haven’t seen you post for a while. Hope all is well and you are enjoying a happy holiday season.

    I agree that Kuroda, at this point would make an excellent addition to the starting staff on a one year salary. Many on the blog have seen him pitch. Fastball around 92. Good location and a nasty splitter.
    However the Yankees don’t seem willing to meet his asking price of 12M-the same as he made last year.

  746. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    “I’d love the Yanks to improve their rotation, but the “Yanks rotation isn’t as good as anybody else” argument went out the window a bit after they had the best record in the league last year. ”

    I’d agree that if the Yank pitching repeats its performance from 2011 the Yanks will be in good shape (at least during the regular season), but I also believe that especially where the Yankee rotation is concerned, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

  747. Yankee Trader December 29th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    GF-

    Actually the one move that George wanted Cashman to make was to sign David Ortiz in 2003. Cashman had to remind him that the team already had Giambi.
    Wonder if the RS would still be searching for that elusive WS title had Ortiz been signed by the Yankees back then as a DH and Nick Johnson released.
    The Yankees, IMO would have won in 2004 and beaten the Cardinals. :)

  748. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Good grief.

    What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?
    ——————————————-
    reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year

    ———–

    It is indeed for nothing.

    Many fans here were restless this time last season and all the whining was all for naught after watching the Yanks win the division and the ’27 Yankees-esque Red Sox fell on their faces.

    The Boss was an outstanding business man. But he was not a smart baseball man. Made tons of bad moves and wasted tons of money.
    —————————————
    had some good baseball people around him but didn’t use them well

  749. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    YT – hope you’re having a great holiday season as well.

    I’m sure this topic (Kuroda) has been beaten to death… but as most of us love to hug our prospects, the price for a comparable starter if the Yanks need one at the ASB is probably going to make many of us sick.

    More teams are going to be competitive and I feel like you’re a little better off taking some risk (like a 1yr deal for Kuroda) in the offseason rather than expecting to get any deals at the trade deadline.

  750. Abomb82 December 29th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Buchholz as a full-time starter in 347 innings (09-11) has a 3.34 ERA, .241 BAA

    He hasn’t been very durable but when he’s made his starts, he’s generally been excellent. He doesn’t have the greatest peripherals, but neither does Nova.

  751. Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    The Boss demonstrated how ineffective he could be as a GM during the 80s and early 90s.

    The team actually benefited greatly when he was suspended and was forced to let his baseball people run the show.

    How many of Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettite, and Bernie Williams would have been traded away had The Boss not been suspended?

    He almost traded Mo for Felix Fermin. He almost traded Pettitte a number of times (Philly was the most infamous).

    The Yanks were better off the less The Boss got involved in baseball decisions.

    I shudder to think what could have been.

  752. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    WYH,

    no doubt – improving the rotation is never a bad thing and I think Kuroda is a great fit on a 1yr deal.

    I just don’t think the Yanks necessarily need to do that in order to win the division and/or compete in the playoffs.

  753. Yank1 December 29th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    “He doesn’t have the greatest peripherals, but neither does Nova.”

    Which is why people are afraid of Nova taking a step back, which is another reason why some people might be worried about the rotation.

  754. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    “I seen this movie already, his name is Cano, and everybody wanted him traded.”

    Not everyone YF. I know you and I and Fran were steady as rain on Cano’s side, as was Tar. I’m sure there had to be a few others. I think RayVT too.

    ***************

    “Other teams are struggling to find five starting pitchers or a couple of BP arms, the Yankees have to arrange a work schedule for an embarasment of riches. Where’s the beef?”

    It’s called the Veruca Salt syndrome. It’s probably tough to understand unless you’re a product of the “me first” generation (I’m not) or have a strong sense of entitlement. Or are fraught with massive insecurities and don’t deal well with letting life unfold. Some people need every i dotted and every t crossed in order to be able to breathe in and out.

    *****************

    “If the Yankees needed a closer and got Bailey for cheap you would be saying how smart Cashman was. Now, that the Sox got him for cheap that is a sign he is hurt. Somehow, reality should come into play, but I expect that is asking far too much.”

    austinmac, you worry too much and also see things that aren’t there. If the Yankees got Bailey cheap I’d know that there was a problem with Bailey because I watched Bailey since he came up and coveted him greatly when he was on top of his game (for my fantasy team that is). He is no longer on the top of his game. So getting him cheap indicates that the A’s no longer see him as desirable goods. Talk about reality coming into play!!!

  755. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    ” I just don’t think the Yanks necessarily need to do that in order to win the division and/or compete in the playoffs.”

    It seems like the Yanks agree with you so I hope you are right.

  756. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    “Buchholz as a full-time starter in 347 innings (09-11) has a 3.34 ERA, .241 BAA”

    ———–

    yes, except that half of those innings came in his breakout year of 2010…. the only year of his career that he’s pitched 100 innings.

    I do think he is talented and could be a very good pitcher but he’s hardly a sure thing. A Boston fan would make the same argument with Phil Hughes and it’s hard to argue.

    2012 will be big seasons for both guys – are they going to be important pieces of their respective rotations or is it time to plan without them?

  757. Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    “So getting him cheap indicates that the A’s no longer see him as desirable goods.”

    That’s certainly possible but I think it’s more likely due to a combination of Bailey’s becoming arb eligible and the fact that the A’s will finish last with him or without him.

  758. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    ” I just don’t think the Yanks necessarily need to do that in order to win the division and/or compete in the playoffs.”

    It seems like the Yanks agree with you so I hope you are right.
    ——————————-
    mark it down…95-97 W’s…playoffs & then anything can happen

  759. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    WYH,

    I’m not saying I don’t think it makes sense to improve the rotation – just that they showed the team was good enough to get it done with what they have.

    I’d expect the Yanks to be drooling over the thought of a 1 year commitment for a pitcher who is good enough to win 14-17 games next season and has no real health concerns.

  760. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    “Bottom line, I am ready to get through April at least with these guys.

    I am confident of CC, Nova & Garcia. I believe Hughes will fare well & I am hoping for Burnett. I trust Noesi as a SP really above Garcia. That said if things go south quickly the Yanks have AAA options to see if they can hold the fort down & possible trade chips. I also feel really comfortable with at least one of the B’s contributing or at least able to contribute after AS break. Additionally I would love to see Joba get a shot again at SP.

    That is a lot of options. $17M for Kuroda does not make me feel good & I am not sure he would be effective more than the rest of the group already available.”

    Brilliant and grounded. Good for you Ray.

    **********

    “Good grief.

    What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?”

    2004 syndrome? It’s like a chip has been planted in their brains and nothing computes when it comes to anything having to do with that team. They see red (so to speak) and all reason goes to hell.

    “reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year”

    Actually the “excitement” came after 2001, when the Yankees stopped winning.

    Slow but steady wins the race. If you need immediate gratification in order to feel good about the Yankees, you might be watching the wrong team and the wrong sport.

  761. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Fascinating conversations over the past hours, days, weeks and months. Never have so many said the same things over and over to the point of nausea in neverending comments on nearly every thread.

    Obviously there are two camps the IWTTSTWTA (I want things to stay the way they are) and the YABTCAIWTSM (Yanks are being too compliancent and I want to see moves). Just think how much easier the back and forth would be:

    IWTTSTWTA

    No YABTCAIWTSM

    No IWTTSTWTA

    and so on, through the wonders of cut and paste there could so much wear and tear saved on keyboards.

  762. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Colts…Jags this week money Jags +$195 & this means ?

  763. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    “Many on the blog have seen him pitch.”

    Who are the “many” and how often have the “many” seen him pitch?

    I’ve watched him on television and I probably followed his career as closely as the “many” if not more closely through playing fantasy baseball for the last three seasons. And I am very thorough in my research.

    Ya think the Yankees should pay $12 mil for Kuroda to sit in the bullpen? Ya think Kuroda wants to sit in the bullpen? Ya think he’s going to get put into the rotation over any of the 5 already here? Think again.

    The Yankees do not need Kuroda to win. If he cost nothing and was willing to spot start, oh what fun he MIGHT turn out to be.

    There are no guarantees with someone coming from the NL to the AL. Especially at the age of 37. He played in the WORST DIVISION IN THE MAJORS last season and had a losing record.

    I think Kuroda’s value remains in the NL.

  764. CalYank December 29th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    disco stu –

    LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace? Every team has the same questions and concerns that you do with Nova/Hughes/Garcia/Burnett… all of whom have been successful previously.

    ============

    How about the S.F. Giants ? ? ?

    Lincecum
    Cain
    Bumgarner
    Vogelsong
    Zito

  765. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    was the Soriano signing last year a bad baseball move and a waste of money?

  766. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Just having fun on my last post. it’s an argument no one can win until the season is over, but it will go on day after day.

  767. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    Gary, very charitable of you. And since charity begins at home, I take it you have nothing further to say on the situation. I will be tracking that!

    Perhaps your silence will encourage others to do the same thing!

    Let’s see what happens.

    :)

  768. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    CalYank December 29th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    disco stu –

    LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace? Every team has the same questions and concerns that you do with Nova/Hughes/Garcia/Burnett… all of whom have been successful previously.

    ============

    How about the S.F. Giants ? ? ?

    Lincecum
    Cain
    Bumgarner
    Vogelsong
    Zito
    ——————————
    and didn’t they trade a SP this offseason

  769. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Who knows! It doesn’t really matter as IMO Bailey is not as good as Papelbohn so it is a net loss for them.

  770. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 5:55 pm

    COOKIE DOUGH TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  771. Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Boy, it’s like a broken record in here. Other than Tampa and maybe California if a starter goes down the drop in replacement performance is significant. The Yankees not so. Nova came up mid season and was number two by the end of it.

    “I don’t trust Nova after just one year”

    He kept improving all season.

    The Yankees went for a sure thing in Vazquez and a couple of years later Viz could be a top end starter and Vazquez is long gone. How is the A Rod sure thing looking and so on. You can’t trade three for one top end talent and be successful.

    Even the Bible says the worst sin is to bury talents.

    There you go – The Bible wants Noesi starting.

  772. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    “Just having fun on my last post. it’s an argument no one can win until the season is over, but it will go on day after day.”

    Drat! I thought you were serious.

    As you were.

    :)

  773. CalYank December 29th, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Yes they did, Jonathan Sanchez to the Royals for the Melkman.

  774. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    YABTCAIWTSM

  775. Gary December 29th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
    Gary, very charitable of you. And since charity begins at home, I take it you have nothing further to say on the situation. I will be tracking that!

    Perhaps your silence will encourage others to do the same thing!

    Let’s see what happens.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Hi Trisha, I’ve been frimly in the camp of we need to make some moves so no issue there. My point we’ve all said the same things over and over, what’s the point any more? It’s a conversation with no ending right now.

  776. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    “COOKIE DOUGH TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    Yeah, and your momma wants you to spread it all over her as the two of you enjoy the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPNpJX8b-bc

    See ya now!

    :)

  777. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Gardner…Melkman……Milkman…Gardner

  778. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    OK thunder thighs, munch on now.

  779. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    “Hi Trisha, I’ve been frimly in the camp of we need to make some moves so no issue there. My point we’ve all said the same things over and over, what’s the point any more? It’s a conversation with no ending right now.”

    Gary, you’re right of course. I guess both sides somehow hope to be able to influence the other side with the same old arguments! We both know how that’s going to end up!!!

    :)

  780. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    “OK thunder thighs, munch on now.”

    Your momma said okay, she will.

  781. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Ray, truth be told, the only acquisition I wish the Sux had NOT gotten is Melancon. I like the guy. Other than that they’re as pathetic as always.

  782. CalYank December 29th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Gardner…Melkman……Milkman…Gardner

    ===============

    i don’t get it?

  783. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    confusion reigns in the land of the manic-depressive…

  784. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    mick – it’s all good. Nothing we haven’t seen before, nothing we won’t continue to see, unfortunately. It is what it is.

  785. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    “was the Soriano signing last year a bad baseball move and a waste of money?”

    —————-

    it was a bad contract because of the 2 player options. I actually expected Soriano to pitch well and still thought it was a bad deal.

    You dont give player options like that, or opt outs, unless it’s an elite player and that’s the only way you can get them to sign with your team.

  786. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    that said, I expect a nice rebound year from Soriano… and for the yanks to have the best bullpen in the game in 2012.

  787. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    I like him too, but I don’t think Melancon is a big enhancement. I also don’t believe the RSox are done yet, but it doesn’t matter as they are the 27 Yankees until August & then they are the 61 Mets from then onward! Wonder if Bailey likes Chicken & Beer? LOL!

  788. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    “it was a bad contract because of the 2 player options. I actually expected Soriano to pitch well and still thought it was a bad deal.”

    Fair, BD. I thought it was a good contract AND expected Soriano to pitch well.

    I continue to expect him to pitch well.

  789. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    “was the Soriano signing last year a bad baseball move and a waste of money?”

    —————-

    it was a bad contract because of the 2 player options. I actually expected Soriano to pitch well and still thought it was a bad deal.

    You dont give player options like that, or opt outs, unless it’s an elite player and that’s the only way you can get them to sign with your team.
    ——————————————–
    so the Yankees can still make bad baseball decisions even without the Boss around….my point

  790. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    “that said, I expect a nice rebound year from Soriano… and for the yanks to have the best bullpen in the game in 2012.”

    HEAR HEAR!!!

    And man alive, let’s give a few minutes to think about what a great bullpen means to a team!

    I’m psyched.

  791. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Yankees didn’t & don’t need Soriano….

  792. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    “I also don’t believe the RSox are done yet”

    Don’t be surprised if they are Ray. They spent a bundle last season to end up in third place. My understanding is that are being very circumspect with their $$$$ this off season.

    But I’m with you. No matter what they do or do not do in the upcoming months, they’re rubber chickens.

  793. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    joeman,

    sure.

    The Yankees, especially prior to this season, had the luxury of taking risks that other teams couldn’t take.

    When you’re allowed to take bigger risks, you have to expect that you’ll also “miss” more often than teams that can’t take the same risks.

    The Red Sox are in the same boat – and have made just as many if not more mistakes. And then there’s the Mets :)

  794. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    They Yanks and the sox both think they are well equipped going into next season.
    They feel they have spent enough money and built their teams well enough to compete.

  795. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Maybe they didn’t need Soriano or maybe they do. It is only money. It is funny that the folks that are suggesting that the Yanks sign a FA because it is only money are the same ones lambasting the Yanks for signing Soriano. Would you prefer he were in Beantown? TB? Texas?

    Soriano makes the Yanks BP even deeper and he also serves as a BU to Mo. I liked the signing last year & this year too. (And next yr as well!) Layered Depth.

    Does anyone here really believe if the Yanks head into March & the SP is bad that Cash won’t pull the trigger on a deal or at least try some AAA SPs? Geesh! Patience!

  796. Yank1 December 29th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Soriano will be fine, he wasn’t terrible when he was healthy.

  797. tomingeorgia December 29th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Chewing cud, but no milk as a result.

  798. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    If this is Mo’s final season, those undervaluing Soriano could change their tune if we see a Soriano-Robertson or vice versa setup-closer duo.

  799. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    “Soriano makes the Yanks BP even deeper and he also serves as a BU to Mo.”

    ————

    I think Robertson is the BU to Mo.

    What will be interesting is whether or not Soriano or Joba is the traditional 7th inning guy.

    I mean, there’s nothing traditional with having 4 guys who could possibly be closers on most teams, but I wonder if Soriano would respond well to being #4 on the list if it shakes out that way.

  800. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    It is great to see you online! (With or w/o the cookies! LOL!) I am not worried about RSox as they are an implosion waiting to happen. TB on the other hand concerns me because of their SP. Toronto also some because they always give the Yanks trouble it seems and they aren’t bad & their pitching is young.

  801. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    “Yankees didn’t & don’t need Soriano….”

    I believe they did, and I believe he will still be an important part of our pen. Imagine getting back to the kind of pen we had been Mendoza was our middle relief! As a hypothetical, picture Joba in the role of Mendoza. (I really want to see him back in the starting rotation so this would at least stretch him out.) Think of getting the ball from Joba to Sori/Okijema to DRob to Mo! I feel flush just thinking about it!

    Soriano has mastered the AL East. He ended last season on a high note for the Yanks. No reason to believe he won’t be a valuable piece of the puzzle.

  802. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Maybe they didn’t need Soriano or maybe they do. It is only money. It is funny that the folks that are suggesting that the Yanks sign a FA because it is only money are the same ones lambasting the Yanks for signing Soriano. Would you prefer he were in Beantown? TB? Texas?

    Soriano makes the Yanks BP even deeper and he also serves as a BU to Mo. I liked the signing last year & this year too. (And next yr as well!) Layered Depth.

    Does anyone here really believe if the Yanks head into March & the SP is bad that Cash won’t pull the trigger on a deal or at least try some AAA SPs? Geesh! Patience!
    ———————————————————
    just wondering if the Sori signing tied up money for then to use as a SP either last or this year, because they seem to be on a budget (lol) to stay below 200 mil

  803. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Soriano may be their 4th best arm in the bullpen next season… At the bargain cost of $11M.

  804. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Soriano is fairly unflappable. He has his routines and he sticks too them. He will pitch whenever they ask him too in the regular season as he enjoys spending his checks! (Or is it direct deposit? LOL!)

    BTW, I expect Joba to come back as a SP still. Too much upside to waste.

  805. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    why is it laughable that the Yankees have a budget?

  806. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    “I am not worried about RSox as they are an implosion waiting to happen. TB on the other hand concerns me because of their SP. Toronto also some because they always give the Yanks trouble it seems and they aren’t bad & their pitching is young.”

    Ray, I think you are calling it exactly right, and in the correct order of things.

  807. Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    I’m firmly in favor of making moves – smart moves – not dumb moves.

    That’s the difference between the likes of some of you and those who realize the game has evolved and the Yanks need to make changes accordingly.

    The Soriano deal last season was the perfect example of a predictably dumb move. And this is not 20/20 hindsight. Many of us were against it. It was a very bad allocation of resources for a roster spot that wasn’t necessary.

    They also lost their 1st round pick in a very talented amateur 2011 draft pool.

    It would have been a bad move even if he had pitched well. The fact that he didn’t and missed half the season to boot makes it that much worse.

    Little did we know that the Soriano signing was going to greatly impact how the team was going to spend money this offseason.

    Just a disastrous move any way you look at it.

  808. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    I think the budget thingy is next year & 2014. I believe the Yanks have options still if they had the right SP no matter what the dollars are! LOL! Like Felix! Linecum! etc.

  809. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    “BTW, I expect Joba to come back as a SP still. Too much upside to waste.”

    If only…

    “why is it laughable that the Yankees have a budget?”

    It isn’t, nor should it be. If the players do their jobs, the Yankees should have no trouble winning the division. The Yankees don’t have any responsibility to go out and spend scads of money because they can, just to put smiles on the faces of jittery Yankee fans. If they feel they can win with the team they have, it’s the team they should put forward. It isn’t exactly chopped liver as presently constituted!

  810. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    “BTW, I expect Joba to come back as a SP still. Too much upside to waste.”

    ———–

    I don’t expect that, but I think if he’s ever going to start for the Yanks again, now is the time to do it.

    The bullpen was elite even without him last season. They can afford to not have him in the bullpen.

    Coming off surgery, it won’t be as big of an issue to have him work up to starting (I think?) as he hasn’t thrown in a while.

    I’d like to see it because if Joba could start it fills a much bigger need (possibly) but I’d be very surprised if they do that.

    Heck, they could get away with Joba only throwing 5-6 innings in his starts with that bullpen.

  811. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    It doesn’t mean that I think the Yanks could go 0-9 against the RSox before AS break and be in trouble, but because they have done that and still won the division it seems kind of funny! I wonder what the psyche of the RSox will be this year if they fall behind early & Yanks split against them or worse? After 2011, no lead will be enough until a spot is clinched in Beantown!

  812. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 6:30 pm

    My favorite Soriano moment was when he served up the game winning HR to Delmon Young. Guy has ice water in his veins.

  813. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    GF – some of us were for it and still are. So I don’t look at it as a disastrous move in any way, shape or form. I’m happy we have Soriano. He makes the team and pen that muc better.

  814. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    while the mets made some terrible decisions (bay, extending perez, castillo) and to some extent, wright’s contact) it has been the injuries to beltran, reyes, and santana that have really killed them.

  815. Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    I would also like to see them give Joba another crack at the rotation. But it seems as if they have no intention of giving him that shot.

    Joba will probably end up in the rotation again at some point. But it will be for someone else.

  816. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    I’m firmly in favor of making moves – smart moves – not dumb moves.

    That’s the difference between the likes of some of you and those who realize the game has evolved and the Yanks need to make changes accordingly.

    The Soriano deal last season was the perfect example of a predictably dumb move. And this is not 20/20 hindsight. Many of us were against it. It was a very bad allocation of resources for a roster spot that wasn’t necessary.

    They also lost their 1st round pick in a very talented amateur 2011 draft pool.

    It would have been a bad move even if he had pitched well. The fact that he didn’t and missed half the season to boot makes it that much worse.

    Little did we know that the Soriano signing was going to greatly impact how the team was going to spend money this offseason.

    Just a disastrous move any way you look at it.
    ——————————————
    sky is falling

  817. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    joba who?

  818. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo.
    By not waiting they secured him at a price that was a bargain compared to if they had waited until they were despaerate.
    Plus, he wouldn’t have been there when they needed him as Boston could have scooped him up.
    Nobody knew that Robertson would emerge as he did and there is no guarantee he is the heir apparent to Mo.
    Soriano could still be that man.

  819. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    “Joba will probably end up in the rotation again at some point. But it will be for someone else.”

    ————-

    I have a hard enough time watching Aceves dominate in the Sox pen.

    I don’t wanna see Joba pitching as a starter in the All-Star game for someone else.

    Give Joba another chance!!!

  820. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    “My favorite Soriano moment was when he served up the game winning HR to Delmon Young. Guy has ice water in his veins.”

    Aww you’re not a big baby or spoiled sport LGY. Did you also love the ones Mo gave up that were game blowers? Guess he didn’t have ice water in his veins either.

    It must kill you to be the definition of perfection and have to watch Yankees with shortcomings. Cripes, how did they get lucky enough to have you as a fan? I bet the organization wishes they could clone you and have you as the posterchild for Yankee fandom.

    I’d ask you which Yankee you haven’t criticized but I don’t need to since I know that there were no 0.00 ERA or 1.000 AVG last year.

  821. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    i love people who say they are in favor of ‘a move’ but don’t actually say which moves they’d make.

  822. raymagnetic December 29th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Cashman throws away money on relievers all the time.

    He paid Marte and he’s currently paying feliciano to do nothing.

    At least soriano is being paid nicely to pitch games.

  823. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    “Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo.
    By not waiting they secured him at a price that was a bargain compared to if they had waited until they were despaerate.”

    ———–

    I never saw that deal as a bargain… and I expected Soriano to be dominant.

    Way too much risk involved, even for the Yanks, with the way the deal was constructed.

  824. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    “Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo.
    By not waiting they secured him at a price that was a bargain compared to if they had waited until they were despaerate.
    Plus, he wouldn’t have been there when they needed him as Boston could have scooped him up.
    Nobody knew that Robertson would emerge as he did and there is no guarantee he is the heir apparent to Mo.
    Soriano could still be that man.”

    That. In spades. Every word of it.

    Good job mick!

  825. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    So true!

  826. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Sure thing, rose colored glasses.

  827. Best To Ever Do It December 29th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    @BD it might be the best thing for him to start for someone else. A change of scenery might do him some good.

  828. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    it is important to remember that mo is over 40 and could lose it anytime and lose it quickly. also any major injury to him could be career ending. Insurance always looks like a waste of money when it isn’t needed.

  829. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    “Give Joba another chance!!!”

    HELL YEAH!

  830. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Trisha

    Cashman was against the Soriano move. So does that mean when you say you have faith in any decision the Yankees make you’re not talking about Cashman?

  831. raymagnetic December 29th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    Relievers who serve up homers have koolaid in their veins apparently :roll:

  832. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
    “Give Joba another chance!!!”

    HELL YEAH!
    ////
    HEAVENS, YES! ;) .

  833. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    nobody named joba is going to pitch either out of the bullpen or in the rotation for another 6 months.

  834. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    “Give Joba another chance!!!”

    HELL YEAH!

    ================

    Invite him over for a cookie dough pig out?

  835. Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Faith abounds, praise allah while the oven is warming.

  836. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Can’t wait for Chad to come back because another a-hole with a Sux screename will be history.

    :)

  837. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    The only move I wished the Yanks had/would make this off-season is to get Soler & Cespedes. I admit I wanted Darvish too, but for over $50M signing plus a contract approaching that not so much.

    I would have liked Danks or Bumgarner but again not at the cost of key prospects! I like the B’s, Sanchez & Montero too much to dish them off.

  838. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    “Cashman was against the Soriano move. So does that mean when you say you have faith in any decision the Yankees make you’re not talking about Cashman?”

    Since I have rank on you legally and we use the socratic method, I’m the one who’ll ask the questions.

    Now I want you to read all the cases you can find dealing with Veruca Salt and we will then discuss your approach to life LGY!

    :)

  839. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    trisha, try my approach: I never know what the trolls are saying, I scroll by so fast it’s a wonderful abstract expressionist waterfall :D . I only read them if someone happens to quote them.

  840. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Simply put, Soriano was paid closer money. Sure they overpaid since he wasn’t brought here to be the immediate closer but, to the liking of many, we overspent, thinking of the future.
    Better early than late.
    Or never.

  841. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    “@BD it might be the best thing for him to start for someone else. A change of scenery might do him some good.”

    ————-

    a commitment to trusting his catcher might do him some good too :)

    I don’t know Joba (only met him briefly) so I won’t say he isn’t motivated enough… but it sure seems like the problem is less with his arm and more with his head.

  842. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    J Al, I hear ya. I have more fun getting them tossed though when they make the mistake of playing the fool in my direection.

    Good times.

    :)

  843. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    ray, how much would you be willing to pay for cespedes and soler and how much would you have bid on darvish? i mean i’d have liked us to get darvish too, but not it looks like the total amount is going to be over $100M and there’s no way i’d have gone there. Sounds like the bidding on the cubans is going to be crazy too.

  844. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    “Simply put, Soriano was paid closer money.”

    ————

    name one closer in the history of the game who has gotten a one year deal with two additional player option years ($25M for those 2 years)

  845. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    “Simply put, Soriano was paid closer money. Sure they overpaid since he wasn’t brought here to be the immediate closer but, to the liking of many, we overspent, thinking of the future.
    Better early than late.
    Or never”

    Geeze Louise mick, you’re really knocking them out of the park tonight!

    Overspending is good – as long as we’re overspending on a player I want! That is the theme here.

    ;)

  846. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo
    ————————————————————–
    don’t think that true at all…just me, don’t think the Yankee future closer is on the team right now

  847. Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    i love people who say they are in favor of ‘a move’ but don’t actually say which moves they’d make.

    ———–

    Hard to say when we aren’t listening to those front office negotiations with other teams and player agents.

  848. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    i agree that while joba has had arm issues that have held him back i think the problems lie in the head. but he can overcome that, he’s still young, maybe this break will turn out to be a good thing.

  849. Yank1 December 29th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    jcrasnick
    Albert Pujols took less $$ up front to help #Angels sign C.J. Wilson, sources say.

    jcrasnick
    Pujols will make $12M and $16M in first 2 years of $250M deal. Salary increases to more than $30M per year near end of deal

  850. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Don’t worry about RR Sock as he doesn’t have anything to crow about after having to eat it last year! LOL! The best team since, well better than the 27 Yanks ahh!! I guess they just folded like a cheap tent or might one say like a cheap drunk (or an alcoholic)! LOL!

    If you take away their winning edge against the Yanks, they are probably contending for 4th place in AL east last year. LOL! The only team they played well against was the Yanks and it still didn’t help them over take the 2nd place team!

  851. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    name one closer in the history of the game who has gotten a one year deal with two additional player option years ($25M for those 2 years)
    ==============================
    If Mo went down, people would have clamored for Cash’s head if he didn’t get Soriano.

  852. mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    don’t think that true at all…just me, don’t think the Yankee future closer is on the team right now
    ======================================
    well i think either sori or robo could

  853. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Yank1 December 29th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    jcrasnick
    Albert Pujols took less $$ up front to help #Angels sign C.J. Wilson, sources say.

    jcrasnick
    Pujols will make $12M and $16M in first 2 years of $250M deal. Salary increases to more than $30M per year near end of deal
    ——————————————————-
    thats what I call a team player

  854. RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    I think that is a dynamic of most SP or pitchers in general. That said, I can see Joba going to AAA to rehap as a SP & being in the Yankee rotation after AS break.

  855. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    “# mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    name one closer in the history of the game who has gotten a one year deal with two additional player option years ($25M for those 2 years)
    ==============================
    If Mo went down, people would have clamored for Cash’s head if he didn’t get Soriano.”

    ————–

    Except Cash didn’t get Soriano :)

    And I don’t think anybody was clamoring for Soriano if Mo went down last year.

    Look – I fully expect Soriano to be better in 2012, but that was an awful deal because of the player options.

  856. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:55 pm

    “don’t think that true at all…just me, don’t think the Yankee future closer is on the team right now”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    it would be very imprudent to go into a season with a 41 y/o closer and no back up plan… maybe in the long run you go to someone else, but there has to be someone in place now just in case.

  857. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    BD, I think what you’re not understanding – or you may be understanding it but still not liking it – is that it appears the investment the Yankees made when they acquired Soriano was an investment in the future, and a potentially long future investment. So they didn’t mind “overpaying” to lock up what they saw (IMO) as the potential heir apparent to Mariano. He was the most likely guy at the time, someone who had mastered the AL East and had shown that he had the makeup and talent to close. The guy is certainly not on emotional overload!

    He has a career ERA of 2.89 and a career WHIP of 1.03.

    He still has a lot to offer IMO.

  858. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    NEW YORK — The Internal Revenue Service is suing New York Yankees managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner over what it calls an “erroneous” tax refund of more than $670,000.

    The suit was filed Tuesday in federal court in Tampa, Fla.

    The dispute dates to the 2001 tax year and involves a refund the IRS paid in 2009. The IRS says the refund claim was filed too late and has sued Steinbrenner and his wife, Christina, to recover $670,493.78.

    Yankees spokeswoman Alice McGillion says Steinbrenner’s representatives hadn’t received any prior notices regarding the matter from the IRS.

  859. DSJ December 29th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    1948. Sad.

  860. ron December 29th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Hal getting sued by the irs.

  861. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    “well i think either sori or robo could”

    Definitely with you. In fact I think either Sori or DRob will.

    I’m definitely not anxious to see Mo replaced by anyone. That’s a moment on which I continue to do deep denial.

    :(

  862. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    trisha,

    I understand it – but it was a poor deal.

    If Soriano got hurt or pitched terribly, he opts in and collects. If he pitched fantastic last season, there’s a good chance he simply would have opted out and signed a bigger deal with someone else.

    Can you imagine if employers told employees “look, if you suck or can’t work, you can still opt in and actually get a raise for 2 more years. But if you turn out to be an excellent employee and actually provide value, you can leave and make more money somewhere else” ?

    They should have held firm and maybe offered 2yrs/ $23M with none of this player option nonsense.

    Why should Soriano get player options like that when almost nobody in baseball gets a sweetheart deal like that?

  863. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    I think that is a dynamic of most SP or pitchers in general. That said, I can see Joba going to AAA to rehap as a SP & being in the Yankee rotation after AS break.
    ——————————————–
    if Hughes has a bad ST or other young SP’s pitch better than him in ST thats where he could end up at the start of the year

  864. DSJ December 29th, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    A 62 year love affair with cookie dough.

  865. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    And I don’t think anybody was clamoring for Soriano if Mo went down last year.

    Look – I fully expect Soriano to be better in 2012, but that was an awful deal because of the player options.
    =============
    The options are moot as he won’t get more from any other team.
    The 1st thought is pure 2nd guessing.

  866. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Soriano is going to be 33 in the final year of his deal.

    How many elite closers are 33 or older?

  867. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Hal was sued because his accountant apparently filed too late. I’m betting that the IRS works out deals in those cases since the money was apparently owed and this is all about a technicality.

    Temptest in a teapot. Sounds like a lot of money but not when you’re a multi billionaire!

  868. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    The Soriano deal is terrible because it does not even guarantee Mariano insurance. If Mariano retires/quits/whatever Soriano OPTS OUT and charges the Yankees MORE MONEY.

    Its an awful unnecessary deal that hurt their draft (apparently the last draft before the CBA killed the yankees chances of getting good talent), hurt them this offseason, hurt them during the season.

    There is like practically no upside to the deal. The best case scenario was Soriano doing really well last year and opting out. Predictably it was a disaster.

    Cashman and Girardi have already proven they can make a good pen without 10+ million free agent relievers. Super unnecessary

  869. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    i’m the other way on mo, im not in denial, i’ve already accepted that his days are numbered and im just enjoying each time he comes back out for another curtain call. its good to see in a way that its not going to end like bernie or mickey, i think if he loses it, he’ll retire and i certainly think this is going to be his last year.

  870. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Look foward angels!

  871. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    BD, I think what you’re not understanding – or you may be understanding it but still not liking it – is that it appears the investment the Yankees made when they acquired Soriano was an investment in the future, and a potentially long future investment. So they didn’t mind “overpaying” to lock up what they saw (IMO) as the potential heir apparent to Mariano. He was the most likely guy at the time, someone who had mastered the AL East and had shown that he had the makeup and talent to close. The guy is certainly not on emotional overload!

    He has a career ERA of 2.89 and a career WHIP of 1.03.

    He still has a lot to offer IMO.————-
    ——————————–
    can’t Sori opt out after this year ……Mo could stick for another year & if a closer job opens up in the majors 13 season he most likely leaves

  872. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    So they didn’t mind “overpaying” to lock up what they saw (IMO) as the potential heir apparent to Mariano.

    But they didnt lock him up! They gave him player options! It isnt even their choice if he stays! Also the contract only ran 1 year longer than Mariano’s contract, so its only insurance for 1 year potentially, and only if Soriano choses! Its the worst kind of insurance you can buy!

  873. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    “The options are moot as he won’t get more from any other team.
    The 1st thought is pure 2nd guessing.”

    ————-

    not after last year

    and the pure 2nd guessing occurred the moment the deal was signed. Liked the player, didn’t like giving him a sweetheart contract that nobody else in baseball gets. Boras duped the Yanks on this one.

  874. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    soriano is in-season insurance. if he opts out after the season, you go get someone else. relievers are available in the offseason.

  875. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    The best team since, well better than the 27 Yanks ahh!! I guess they just folded like a cheap tent or might one say like a cheap drunk (or an alcoholic)! LOL!
    =======================================
    This would be apropos at this time, maybe Trish could attest to it as she is in proximity.

    Boston named America’s drunkest city.

    http://www1.whdh.com/news/arti…..kest-city/

  876. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    The worst kind of insurance: The kind that might not even be there when you need it.

  877. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    “soriano is in-season insurance. if he opts out after the season, you go get someone else. relievers are available in the offseason.”

    Yep. As my dad would always say, “Things are only a problem if you make them a problem.”

  878. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    “The worst kind of insurance: The kind that might not even be there when you need it.”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    if he’s not there, you’re not paying anymore, just like any other term insurance.

  879. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    “Boston named America’s drunkest city.”

    Wouldn’t you be if you had a team like the Sux???? I guess their pitching staff pushed it over the edge in terms of being America’s drunkest city!

    :)

  880. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    “soriano is in-season insurance. if he opts out after the season, you go get someone else. relievers are available in the offseason.”

    ————–

    yeah, but the problem, again… is that he only opts out if he pitches great and someone else is gonna pay him even more. if he gets hurt or stinks, you’re stuck with him.

    unprecedented sweetheart deal for a non-elite player

  881. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    try this again:

    Hub dubbed America’s drunkest city

  882. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    How exactly is Soriano an insurance policy when he has a major history of arm injuries?

  883. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    if he’s not there, you’re not paying anymore, just like any other term insurance.

    Then he isn’t much insurance now is he? Signing an elite setup guy to a reasonable contract with options or years the YANKEES control is insurance. Giving Soriano more money than most closers packaged in PLAYER options is managerial misconduct.

    If you’re sure the Yankees can get another reliever if Mariano goes down, then why have him in the first place. IT was clear he was going to take up 5%+ of the payroll that could have been spent on something more useful, blocked their amateur team from drafting in the first round, and tied up a roster spot.

  884. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    try this again:

    Hub dubbed America’s drunkest city
    ————————————————
    has something to do with the 50,000 colleges in the state

  885. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    He was pretty elite when he closed for the Rays BD. I think you know that.

    Also, playing the odds is what it’s all about, isn’t it? They played the odds that he wasn’t going to stink (why not) and that he would want to stick around with the opportunity to close for the Yankees.

    I think it was worth the risk and money. Still do.

  886. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    meant city

  887. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    The back half of that Pujols contract is going to be a nightmare…….at least Arods wasthe frontloaded so the salary decreased as he neared 40. The Angels will be paying Albert 30 million bucks go likely be a shell of himself those last couple or years……better hope they win now. With the new soft cap…..paying 30 million to a 40 year old is rough…Alex makes 26 in 2014…..but it drops to 22 the following year.

  888. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    And more than welcome to look up my opinions on Soriano and the deal from before he signed running up to his signing. Thought Soriano could be good (but not as good as he was for the Rays which got him the deal) but the deal was one of the worst ever, as I did not believe the Yankees would spend unlimited money and thus any unnecessary deal hurts their ability to spend smartly under their self imposed cap.

  889. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    theres a whole big pile of closers who are willing to come to another team and take less money (reasonable money for a non-closer) so the yankees will have insurance? i’d like to see that list…

  890. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Can anybody think of another Yankee in the history of the franchise that has gotten even a one year player option for a salary greater than the AAV of the overall contract? Soriano got TWO.

    I can’t.

    It’s one thing to give a player option at a lesser amount.

    Vesting options, club options with a buyout, mutual option…. fine.

    Player option for more $$ = BAD

  891. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    theres a whole big pile of closers who are willing to come to another team and take less money (reasonable money for a non-closer) so the yankees will have insurance?

    Big money contracts for relievers never work out.

  892. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    http://www1.whdh.com/news/arti.....kest-city/

    that should do it.

  893. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    blake, when you add in arod’s $6M bonuses, its not backloaded. in fact, if he averages around 20 per season, they you’d have to call it backloaded because he’d be adding $30M onto the last 4 years of his contact.

  894. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    BD, well we’ll just have to wait to see the ending! In the meantime, why fret it. It might end up being the best deal the Yankees ever made!!!

    I still see it having merit and I like the odds they were willing to play. Oh well, it either will or won’t. Nobody knows at this moment.

  895. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    im sorry i meant to say when you add in arods bonuses it is backloaded, not frontloaded.

  896. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Putting aside all the reasons Soriano is a horrible insurance policy, that’s not even the reason the Yankees Randy Levine signed him!!

  897. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    The back half of that Pujols contract is going to be a nightmare…….at least Arods wasthe frontloaded so the salary decreased as he neared 40. The Angels will be paying Albert 30 million bucks go likely be a shell of himself those last couple or years……better hope they win now. With the new soft cap…..paying 30 million to a 40 year old is rough…Alex makes 26 in 2014…..but it drops to 22 the following year.
    ————————————————
    by then he’ll be a full time DH…better find out if Montero can play OF a little

  898. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    In the Yanks defense…..they didn’t know at the time how awesome Robertson was going to be in 2011…..if they had I doubt they would have signed Soriano…….its a bad contract …..but its worse having hindsight knowledge

  899. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    “Big money contracts for relievers never work out”

    That’s not too much of a generalization, is it?

    :)

  900. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    BD
    They overpaid. They are the Yankees, they can do that. It’s the reason we are hated. Embrace it.

  901. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    trisha,

    that’s the thing – it would have been a bad deal for virtually any player (I mean if Hamels hits FA and the only way the Yanks get him is with a similar deal, maybe)

    it’s not necessarily an indictment of Soriano. I actually thought he’d pitch well.

    it’s just bad business to make that kind of deal, IMO.

  902. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    And this was a big-money contract for a reliever who was probably thought to be the future closer – so it was an investment in the future.

  903. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    “BD
    They overpaid. They are the Yankees, they can do that. It’s the reason we are hated. Embrace it.”

    :D

    mick, whatever you had for dinner, eat it every night. I am definitely loving your style!

  904. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    mick,

    it has less to do with the money and more to do with giving someone an unprecedented sweetheart deal with player options to be a setup man.

    It would have actually made more sense, if they thought his success would continue, to give him MORE money for 3 guaranteed years.

  905. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    BD, as whacked as it appears on the surface, I agree with mick that there was a method to their madness. If it all plays out according to whatever script they were betting on, then it will have been a good investment.

    We just have to wait and see. JMO

  906. m1kew December 29th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    Hi to all – I miss baseball and when I read this it was almost like seeing a game – http://www.bronxbanterblog.com.....e-stadium/
    If you have a few minutes to spare take a look. (Older fans especially will recall many of these tales.)

  907. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    the total on albert’s contract is $254M. theres not much detail on cott’s but if he’s getting $30M through the middle years, it stands to reason he will be getting $25M or less the last couple of seasons.

  908. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    And this was a big-money contract for a reliever who was probably thought to be the future closer – so it was an investment in the future.

    Future closer when? In the last year of a deal you might never see because he’ll opt out if he is any good? The deal reads like the Yankees were hoping he’d be lights out then opt out. Not as a future closing deal. If he is going to ‘become the closer’ he would simply opt out and extort even more money from the Yankees. The options only get picked up if he sucks or is injured. No team should be paying big money to any reliever unless its Mariano Rivera. Mariano is literally the exception. Look at the history of big money/long term deals for relievers.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ear-deals/

  909. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    BD, you certainly weren’t alone in not loving the deal. And I know it has nothing to do with Soriano, it’s the deal itself.

    I actually thought it was okay because I really thought the dots were going to connect and the picture was going to end up being a nice one. If it doesn’t go down the way I

  910. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    ““Big money contracts for relievers never work out”
    _________________________

    this guy mariano has worked out ok…

  911. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    trisha,

    I’m not even arguing that Soriano isn’t worth the money. I’m just suggesting (and considering nobody else in baseball has a contract like Soriano’s) that giving someone player options is a bad idea.

    If he gets hurt or stink, Yanks lose because he opts in.

    If he pitches exceptionally well, he probably opts out.

    I’d have preferred they just signed him for 3 guaranteed years so that if he pitches great he has to stick around.

  912. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....-pitchers/

    Here is another post on why overpaying for relief is dumb. The Yankees crafted very good bullpens out of minor league pickups and prospects. You dont need a free agent reliever.

    “They overpaid. They are the Yankees, they can do that. It’s the reason we are hated. Embrace it.”

    Except this doesnt apply anymore, which is Reason A1 the contract is terrible. The Yankees will be playing by the rules of the new CBA. And they were never likely to go above 210 anyways, which means they should only overpay for INCREDIBLE NEEDS like CC Sabathia.

  913. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    If it doesn’t go down the way I thought it would end up going down, I will then believe it was a bit wasteful. But if it plays out the way I envisioned it playing out, I will think it was smart thinking on the part of the organization. No way to call it right now, of course.

  914. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    There was no investment in some future closer role. The player options completely contradict that idea.

    And it’s pretty terrible to have your insurance policy be more of an injury risk than Mariano.

    It’s not that difficult to see Levine and the Steinbrenners got desperate after they were spurned by Lee.

    There was no deep thought beyond the flawed idea of “shortening the game” to hedge against a weak starting staff.

  915. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Ys,

    But imagine if those bonuses were added go an actual contract that was backloaded…….luckily the actual salary numbers go down.

  916. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    this guy mariano has worked out ok…

    Oh yea Ys Guy?? Did Mariano work out? You mean the hall of famer best there ever was once in a lifetime never gonna see another as good as he reliever that is literally the only reliever to consistently dominate FOREVER? He worked out??? Oh I didnt notice the Yankees giving him 2 PLAYER OPTIONS. Mariano has signed reasonable deals his entire career, and is a complete outlier in every facet of his position.

  917. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    BD ..it’s only money…not even big money for the Yanks…they had Andy’s dough lying around.

  918. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    “this guy mariano has worked out ok…”

    The only reason I didn’t go there is because I though JF was separating out relievers and closers.

  919. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    trisha,

    at least we’re in agreement that Soriano should pitch better this season.

    I think he’ll be a little more acclimated and hopefully is training with the intent of building off of his late season success in 2011.

    His ERA in April was nearly 8. His ERA in September was 3.29.

  920. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Anyone who goes to the Mariano Rivera well when discussing relievers doesnt understand Mariano or the sport.

  921. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    mick,

    agreed – only money.

    and it’s only money that is preventing the Yanks from making major moves this offseason.

    I hope it’s not only money that keeps them from signing someone like Soler.

    I know they can still win and believe they will – but it’s ‘only money’ that is keeping the Yankees from trying to further improve their team and increase their already good odds of making the postseason in 2012.

    And it’s not even the money that was the real problem – it was the terms of the contract.

  922. Mike_Boston December 29th, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    15 drinks a month makes number 1?? Would have thought more like 20-25 would lead. That’s child’s play compared to places like Europe and South America, Australia etc…

  923. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    The heir apparent to Mariano rates 2 player options. If you don’t get that, there’s not much else to say is there. They played the odds that Soriano was going to get set up to take over for Mo once Mo decided to hang it up. They weren’t going to screw around waiting for Mo to make an announcement and them scramble to find his “replacement”.

    They were thinking beyond their noses. And they were also playing the odds that Soriano would want to be the heir apparent to Mo – and thus not opt out.

    It will either work out or it won’t.

  924. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    if mo asked for 2 opt outs he would have gotten them.

  925. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    speaking of Mo, check this out, amazing!

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ns-cutter/

  926. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    “But if it plays out the way I envisioned it playing out, I will think it was smart thinking on the part of the organization.”

    ————–

    trisha,

    but didn’t you envision, as I did, that Soriano would be lights out last year?

    If he was, there’s a very reasonable (if not likely) chance that he’d have signed with another team this offseason for more guaranteed money.

  927. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    I guess if you think Soriano would have turned down more money to stay with the Yanks, ok.

  928. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    The heir apparent to Mariano rates 2 player options. If you don’t get that, there’s not much else to say is there

    If you don’t get why this is silly and doesn’t make sense, there’s not much else to say is there.

  929. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    Relievers are in general very inconsistent year to year……thats a big reason why they are relievers to begin with.

  930. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    15 drinks a month makes number 1?? Would have thought more like 20-25 would lead. That’s child’s play compared to places like Europe and South America, Australia etc…
    =================================================
    thats an average…the RS team averaged 60 per month

  931. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    If Soriano was anywhere close to good, he would have opted out for a Papelbon type deal.

  932. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    “His ERA in April was nearly 8. His ERA in September was 3.29.”

    I’m with you BD. I think we’re going to see a stellar Soriano this season. I think getting acclimated was certainly part of it. Kind of reminds me of Roger Clemens and his ERA in April vs. September of his first year with the Yanks!

  933. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    As it turned out, whether planned or not, Soriano became very important to the Yankees when Chamberlain went down for the year.

  934. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    “If Soriano was anywhere close to good, he would have opted out for a Papelbon type deal.”

    Not if he’s been told that he could end up as the future closer for the Yankees. Face it, if Soriano opted out, it wasn’t going to be for a one-year shot. He knows Mo is close to hanging it up. I think he would have hung around for the best job in baseball.

  935. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    Soriano became very important to the Yankees when Chamberlain went down for the year.

    Too bad Joba went down while Soriano himself was injured :( HE’S SO IMPORTANT!!

  936. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    “If you don’t get why this is silly and doesn’t make sense, there’s not much else to say is there.”

    Uh, sure, because you say so.

    **********

    Good to see you GB!

    :)

  937. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Like I said, not wanting to give player options isn’t necessarily an indictment of Soriano not being worth the money… its just bad business.

    If I suck at my job (or get hurt and can’t work), my employers don’t want me to have the option of sticking around for 2 more years at an increased rate. Yet, if I excel at my job, I’ll just leave for more money.

    It shouldn’t be hard to see why that’s maybe not the best business deal.

  938. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    Not if he’s been told that he could end up as the future closer for the Yankees. Face it, if Soriano opted out, it wasn’t going to be for a one-year shot. He knows Mo is close to hanging it up. I think he would have hung around for the best job in baseball.

    “Soriano, if you just pickup each of your player options, in the last year of your contract you might close for the Yankees (if you’re not terrible or injured by then)!”

    Soriano: ….

    *opts out, gets 4 year guaranteed with 5th year vesting option from Phillies*

  939. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    “As it turned out, whether planned or not, Soriano became very important to the Yankees when Chamberlain went down for the year.”

    not really because he was hurt most of the year and ineffective for much of the other parts. I do expect him to be better this year though and if you can look past the contract and just accept it…..then they’ll have 4 closer arms in their bullpen by the all star break.

  940. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    i just can’t get all that tweaked about soriano, year the contract was probably too much but then so is arod’s and jeter’s. i was surprised they signed him but then again i was worried about mo, so i wasnt sorry they got him even as i was surprised by the contract.

  941. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    trisha,

    if Soriano had every intention of staying with the Yankees to take over for Mo, then why did he ask for player options (that nobody else in baseball gets) ?

    it just doesn’t add up.

    it’s such an unconventional deal that gives the player every advantage and the team none.

  942. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    BD – they played the odds. They can afford to, and they did. Only a bad strategy if you’re someone who’s totally conservative. As you well know, I like risk!

  943. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    here is the Mariano video I tried to send:

    around 1:45 in is classic

    http://vimeo.com/13209809

  944. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Only a bad strategy if you’re someone who’s totally conservative. As you well know, I like risk!

    The yankees are now being conservative, so its a bad strategy.

  945. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    “*opts out, gets 4 year guaranteed with 5th year vesting option from Phillies*”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

    so then papelbon and madsen are both available, along with bailey and maybe krod would have gotten into the market if he knew the yankees were likely in the mix.

  946. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    There was a 5 week overlap when Chamerlain went down. Soriano did just fine when he returned. There were no options and the price was worth it in hindsight. Regardless of the blatherings of a couple of obnoxious idiots.

  947. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:43 pm

    year the contract was probably too much but then so is arod’s and jeter’s.

    This is not a good argument for adding a player. Atleast A-rod was the best ever and Jeter is a living yankee legend. Soriano was a nobody who could barely stay healthy that had 1 good year in Tampa after spending his career outside of the pressure packed AL East. It was no surprise that he couldnt handle New York.

  948. Jerkface December 29th, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    so then papelbon and madsen are both available, along with bailey and maybe krod would have gotten into the market if he knew the yankees were likely in the mix.

    Why would the Yankees be in the mix? Mariano shows no signs of slowing down, is signed for another year, and they have breakout star David robertson. Not to mention Hughes and Joba??

  949. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    “but then again i was worried about mo, so i wasnt sorry they got him even as i was surprised by the contract.”

    There you go.

    A vast number of lohuddites don’t look past tomorrow. They criticize Girardi wildly for moves he makes, mostly because they can’t see past their noses and are vested only in the immediate. Girardi is paid to be twenty moves ahead and he is at least that in comparison to what’s put out here!

    I guess a lot of baseball fans care only about today. That’s why they’re behind computers and not running baseball organizations.

    The Yankees seem to do a fine job despite the barrage of criticism constantly heaped in their direction.

    :)

  950. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    i was pointing out that if the yankees lost soriano and needed a closer, others would have been available.

  951. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    “There was a 5 week overlap when Chamerlain went down. Soriano did just fine when he returned. There were no options and the price was worth it in hindsight. Regardless of the blatherings of a couple of obnoxious idiots.”

    :)

  952. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    As I see it, It’s the Yankees option on Soriano.
    He’s going nowhere because nobody will pay him what he’s getting now.
    Look at it as a tryout for Mo’s job.
    It’s our option because Mo will pitch another year and at that point we will decide if Soriano is worthy or not.
    Our option.

  953. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    just seems odd.

    Pujols – probably the best player in the game. no player option years.

    Cliff Lee – no player options. Halladay, Felix, etc … no player options.

    The only player in the major leagues who has two player option years (and for more money) is Rafael Soriano.

    (please correct me if I’m not thinking of another player who does have either multiple player options OR a player option for more money than the AAV of the contract – I could of course be missing someone)

  954. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    there is always so much hindsight in most of the criticism of the yankees. they were worried about the fate of the whole team resting on a 41 y/o closer so they got insurance. turns out they didnt need it. had mo broken down (certainly not out of the realm of possibility) they they would be screaming ‘why didnt they get insurance’

    there’s no winning against critics with hindsight.

  955. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    You want to talk about impossible shoes to fill? My guess is the Yankees won’t settle for just any closer.

  956. GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
    “As it turned out, whether planned or not, Soriano became very important to the Yankees when Chamberlain went down for the year.”

    not really because he was hurt most of the year and ineffective for much of the other parts. I do expect him to be better this year though and if you can look past the contract and just accept it…..then they’ll have 4 closer arms in their bullpen by the all star break.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Who was going to pick up those august and September innings? Wade, Ayala and Robertson were already in innings they hadn’t been in before. You giving those innings to Kontos and Whelan? Not me.

  957. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    “There were no options and the price was worth it in hindsight. ”

    They had two of the other best relievers in baseball though….so I’m not sure it was worth the price…especially considering that it wasn’t a one year deal.

    That said….bright side is that they should have a darn good bullpen in 2012…..the problem is that it appears that money may be keeping them from addressing other areas of need (the rotation)

  958. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    doe anyone know if any other player has ever asked for 2 opt outs?

  959. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    “there is always so much hindsight in most of the criticism of the yankees. they were worried about the fate of the whole team resting on a 41 y/o closer so they got insurance. turns out they didnt need it. had mo broken down (certainly not out of the realm of possibility) they they would be screaming ‘why didnt they get insurance’

    there’s no winning against critics with hindsight.”

    You’ve just summed up the lohud greek chorus. Always and forever.

  960. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    agreed – only money.

    and it’s only money that is preventing the Yanks from making major moves this offseason.
    ================================
    but it’s not the money they are paying their HOF infield?….Sori’s money is chump change

  961. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    there’s no winning against critics with hindsight.”
    ================================
    it’s called 2nd guessing, as Howard Cosell used to say it’s 20-20.

  962. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    “Who was going to pick up those august and September innings? ”

    I doubt Soriano was the difference in them winning the division…..he was nice to have around but it was more of a luxury than a real need and again the problem is that it’s apparently kept them from making offer moves this offseason.

  963. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    There was a 5 week overlap when Chamerlain went down. Soriano did just fine when he returned. There were no options and the price was worth it in hindsight. Regardless of the blatherings of a couple of obnoxious idiots.
    —————————————
    look in the mirror

  964. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    It was no surprise that he couldnt handle New York.
    ================================
    Neither could Clemens his 1st year.
    Sori had his initiation and will grow to love the pressure.

  965. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    “there is always so much hindsight in most of the criticism of the yankees.”

    ———-

    I almost always support the Yanks.

    But from the moment they signed Soriano, and despite thinking he was going to be a great addition to the team, it was obvious to me that it was a bad contract because of the player options.

    I don’t consider that hindsight. I call it good common business sense.

    And I still can’t find another player with player options. Jeter has one but it’s for far less money ($8M.) Carlos Zambrano has one but it’s a vesting option (big difference.)

  966. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    And when talking about the savvy of the contract, stop attributing the decision making to Soriano, a man who can hardly speak English, PLEASE. Boras worked out the details. Get over it.

  967. blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    I don’t mind the player options so much…..it’s basically a 3 year deal that may turn out to be shorter because of them.

  968. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    it’s apparently kept them from making offer moves this offseason.
    ====================
    what are these major moves u speak of?

  969. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    Update: Ryan Dempster exercised a $14M player option for 2012

    he only had the one year, but at least it’s an example of another player with an option (even though the Cubs would rather not pay him $14M this season)

  970. mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    it was obvious to me that it was a bad contract because of the player options.
    ========================
    I keep saying, he will never use the options.
    When his deal is up with Mo’s, we will have the option to bring him back for less money as Robo’s setup man.

  971. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
    i agree that while joba has had arm issues that have held him back i think the problems lie in the head. but he can overcome that, he’s still young, maybe this break will turn out to be a good thing.
    ///

    I think we should see how the Joba-Rothschild dynamic plays out before chalking up Chamberlain’s troubles primarily to his “head.” In five minutes, Rothschild found something in Chamberlain’s mechanics that helped him immensely (handset). Nagy has been able to really help Kennedy find himself as a pitcher, whereas Eiland was able to help neither of these guys grow.

    Could it be we saddled these developing young arms with a mediocre mentor? I have reason to think so. Chamberlain’s milb innings alone tell a story of developmental neglect. He had someone down on the farm who was a big help to him in cleaning up his mechanics. Maybe a second tour with Scott Aldred would have ruffled some people’s feathers? I can tell you this: there are probably people working for the Yankees who were frustrated by the development of these players once they got to the majors. Hey – Jeff Patterson did his job when hit came to Kennedy, so did Oppenheimer, and so did Aldred.

    Rothschild is a MAJOR upgrade over Dave Eiland, and that’s why we should all be more hopeful that our prospects will be much more professionally handled going forward.

  972. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    hey, bd if you were against the contract from the beginning, then my ‘hindsight’ comment doesnt apply. you may have been right but we won’t know for at least another season.

  973. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    “what are these major moves u speak of?”

    probably not major moves….but perhaps they wouldn’t be saying they have no money for a guy like Kuroda if they weren’t paying Soriano.

    Kuroda would help the Yankees in 2012 a lot more than Soriano will…..again though a lot of this is talking with hindsight knowledge…..as I said earlier if the Yankees would have known how good Robertson was going to be then maybe they wouldn’t have signed him….

    but they didn’t know and I think the thinking was that they rotation was going to be weak and there were no options there so they were going to strengthen the bullpen as much as possible. That was an ok strategy except for the money they had to pay….

  974. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    “I keep saying, he will never use the options.”

    ————-

    he just exercised the option.

    and if he pitches great in 2012, it’s reasonable that he’ll decline the option and become a free agent so he can procure more guaranteed money (though the 2013 option is $14M… if he opts out he still gets $1.5M so it’s theoretically only $12.5M that he’d need to exceed on the open market)

  975. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    “I keep saying, he will never use the options.
    When his deal is up with Mo’s, we will have the option to bring him back for less money as Robo’s setup man.”

    Exactly. (sigh)

    ************

    If you STILL don’t understand what went down, try reading this article from last year.

    Free-agent closer Rafael Soriano led the majors in saves last year, but he would consider being a setup man for one team in baseball — the New York Yankees.

    “That door is open for a number of different reasons,” Soriano’s agent, Scott Boras, told ESPNNewYork.com.

    The possibility of putting together a shutdown bullpen by pairing Soriano in the eighth inning with closer Mariano Rivera could be an alternative plan for the Yankees after failing to lure Cliff Lee to the Bronx.

    The Yankees could aggressively go after Soriano if Andy Pettitte decides to retire, or even in conjunction with Pettitte returning. Yankees general manager Brian Cashman would likely have to pay Soriano closer money even though he would be in a setup position.

    After failing to sign Lee, Cashman has said the Yankees’ budget is in the $170 million range, which would seem to give them room to add both Pettitte and Soriano.

    Cashman has preached “patience” and may choose to bank the money for a trade later in the year that would then push the payroll closer to the $200 million mark.

    On Thursday, Cashman said he wouldn’t classify the Yankees’ level of interest in Soriano. He also said he had no update on Pettitte’s decision.

    Boras declined to go into details about which other teams were interested in Soriano or to say where talks stood with the Yankees.

    Clearly, though, Soriano is willing to take a lesser role with the idea that he will be paid like a closer and will have a chance to win a title, while becoming the Yankees’ heir apparent to Rivera. Rivera will turn 43 when his just-signed two-year deal expires. Soriano just turned 31.

    “I don’t think there is a team in baseball where he could be asked to be a setup guy other than the Yankees,” Boras said.

    Boras said he and Soriano have discussed the possibility of the Yankees, adding he goes over each and every team with his free agents.

    “It is a different scenario,” Boras said.

    As accomplished as Soriano is, Boras — delving further into the “different reasons” Soriano would consider the Yankees — thinks that learning from arguably the greatest closer of all time would have added appeal.

    “There is also a value in playing with Mariano Rivera,” Boras said.

    The Yankees saw first-hand what Soriano can do last season as he was the difference-maker that allowed the Tampa Bay Rays to win the AL East.

    After missing out on Lee and waiting on Pettitte, the Yankees’ current starting rotation consists of CC Sabathia, coming off knee surgery; A.J. Burnett, following a 10-15 season; Phil Hughes, who was an All-Star last year; inexperienced Ivan Nova and journeyman Sergio Mitre.

    The Yankees have a load of starting pitching prospects, but they won’t know until spring training if any are ready for the big leagues.

    As the Yankees are currently constituted, Joba Chamberlain and David Robertson would be the leading candidates to set up for Rivera.

  976. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    “In five minutes, Rothschild found something in Chamberlain’s mechanics that helped him immensely (handset).”

    listen, maybe it really helped or maybe joba thought it helped. next time maybe he’ll do better breathing through his eyelids or wearing a garter….

  977. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    “I keep saying, he will never use the options.”

    BD, I think you know he meant that Soriano will not use the options to opt out! I agree that he will never use the options, mick.

  978. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    he just exercised the option.

    and if he pitches great in 2012, it’s reasonable that he’ll decline the option and become a free agent so he can procure more guaranteed money (though the 2013 option is $14M… if he opts out he still gets $1.5M so it’s theoretically only $12.5M that he’d need to exceed on the open market)
    ===================
    semantics.
    staying is not using the option.
    he is not getting more money elsewhere.
    One more time: Mo will pitch in 2013 .
    If we want Soriano back, ITS OUR OPTION.

  979. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Y’s Guy,

    sometimes good decisions don’t work out and bad decisions do.

    I have never been against Soriano. I just hate the contract terms and don’t think they were necessary.

    The Yanks needed to give CC an opt out or he may not have come to NY. I don’t think Soriano is on the same level as CC and the Yanks could have still gotten Soriano without giving him a deal that nobody else in baseball has.

    I hope, and expect, to see an improved Soriano in 2012. That still doesn’t make it a smart decision to give player options (as evidenced by the ultra-rarity of them in current player contracts.)

  980. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    “he is not getting more money elsewhere.”

    ———-

    yeah, because he didn’t pitch well in 2011.

    If he repeated his 2010 #s, he very well may have gotten more money elsewhere.

    Are you suggesting the Yankees give more player options in future contracts? No big deal, right?

  981. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    If Soriano had a good and healthy season this year then he may opt out and attempt to get another multi year deal…..it just depends on how he pitches and the market…..what closers are available and who needs one etc…..

  982. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Soriano has a good arm, and Mr. Nilsson’s observation before Christmas made sense.

    Soriano, in hindsight, won’t be superfluous in the least, if his presence can facilitate a return to the rotation for Joba.

  983. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    “what are these major moves u speak of?”

    probably not major moves….but perhaps they wouldn’t be saying they have no money for a guy like Kuroda if they weren’t paying Soriano.
    ===========================
    Kuroda is too much trouble, forget him.

  984. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    “if his presence can facilitate a return to the rotation for Joba.”

    ————-

    now you’re talking :)

  985. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    BD, I believed that Soriano was in it for the long haul with the thought of closing for the Yankees. So yes, I believed that if he had a career year last year, he’d still have stayed with the Yanks. I didn’t believe he’d use the opt outs.

    (Just saw your earlier post.)

  986. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    “Kuroda is too much trouble, forget him.”

    :)

  987. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Are you suggesting the Yankees give more player options in future contracts? No big deal, right?
    ===================
    Look, they wanted to lock him up.
    They did what it took to appease Boras.
    He’s not getting over on us in this case.
    Arod, yes, not Soriano.

  988. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
    “In five minutes, Rothschild found something in Chamberlain’s mechanics that helped him immensely (handset).”

    listen, maybe it really helped or maybe joba thought it helped. next time maybe he’ll do better breathing through his eyelids or wearing a garter….
    ///

    Ys Guy, the Yankees have hired a heavyweight in Rothschild. Eiland is like a middle management type: he looks out for his own behind, sees others as threats to his “authority”. The Rothschild hiring could be as important to the team’s future as any player acquisition or addition.

  989. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Trish, Kuroda = Diva.

  990. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    trisha,

    fair enough.

    but then that makes including player options completely unnecessary – Boras or not.

    they should have just signed him for 3 years and $35M. adding the player options certainly wasn’t an advantage for the Yankees.

  991. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    Padres Notes: Rizzo, Maholm, Young, Quentin
    By Mark Polishuk [December 29 at 5:46pm CST]

    Bill Center of the San Diego Union-Tribune held his weekly chat with fans today and shared some news about some possible moves the Padres could have cooking this offseason…

    Center thinks Anthony Rizzo will be traded “in the next week or two.” He predicts Rizzo will be sent to the Rays, who will then flip Rizzo to the Cubs, where he is “still coveted” by (former Padres executives) Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    not sure what the Rays would flip Rizzo to the Cubs for…..considering the Cubs system is awful and the Rays need a first baseman badly.

    Cashman should at least ask if a 3 way could work with the Cubs and Padres…….

  992. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Soriano was worth it because of the 24 innings of 3.4 ERA baseball he pitched after Joba went down?

    WoW. You can’t be serious.

  993. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    “Look, they wanted to lock him up.”

    ————-

    huh?

    if you want to lock someone up you sign them for guaranteed years.

    they’d have been better off signing him for 3 years and $35M

  994. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    “If Soriano had a good and healthy season this year then he may opt out and attempt to get another multi year deal…..”

    If Boras believes there’s a shot that Soriano ends up closing for the Yankees, Soriano will go nowhere no matter how awesome a season he has. Part of agreeing to set up for Mo was with an eye toward ending up being the Yankee closer!

  995. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
    “if his presence can facilitate a return to the rotation for Joba.”

    ————-

    now you’re talking
    ///

    Other than health, I can’t see why Rothschild won’t ultimately recommend this for Joba. Rothschild was hired to be a prominent voice, not to throw his hands up in the air. Some may think I’m being tough on Eiland, but I never thought he understood how to get the best out of Chamberlain, and also, let’s just say that, sitting in a milb ballpark, you overhear many things.

  996. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    “not sure what the Rays would flip Rizzo to the Cubs for”

    —————

    agreed

    I’d think the Rays could use Rizzo too

    interesting…

  997. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    huh?

    if you want to lock someone up you sign them for guaranteed years.

    they’d have been better off signing him for 3 years and $35M
    =========================================
    boras didnt want to , he needed an edge to make the sale , we’re talking about one year now, next year. thats it, hardly enough to get your panties ina twist.

  998. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    I don’t see Soriano as the Yankees future closer…

  999. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    I don’t see Soriano as the Yankees future closer…
    ===============
    right now it’s Robo

  1000. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    “trisha,

    fair enough.

    but then that makes including player options completely unnecessary – Boras or not.

    they should have just signed him for 3 years and $35M. adding the player options certainly wasn’t an advantage for the Yankees.”

    BD, that wasn’t going to work! Why would he sign on for 3 years as a reliever if there would be no pot of gold (closing) at the end of the rainbow? This is all about closing for the Yankees! Did you read that article? He wasn’t going to agree to set up for any other team! Player options were entirely necessary. If at any point signs pointed to Soriano not having a shot at that role, then he would opt out and sign a multi-year deal as someone else’s closer. Boras wasn’t going to let him be tied up for three years as a reliever no matter what happened in the meantime!

    Boras once again was pretty brilliant. I understand why the Yanks went for it. Look at the season he had just turned in with Tampa. Definitely worth the risk – to both sides. Soriano opts out, the Yankees owe him nothing. I see it as a win win, risk-wise.

  1001. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    Bronx Tale

  1002. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    are the mariners out on prince? man, they are just gonna SUCK again this year…all the rumors now on fielder are about the natinals.

  1003. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

    “boras didnt want to , he needed an edge to make the sale , we’re talking about one year now, next year. thats it, hardly enough to get your panties ina twist.”

    ———–

    yeah, because Boras never asks for the moon and the stars in every deal… before typically settling for less.

    If you can’t understand why player options aren’t a good deal for a team, and thus super rare in baseball, then we can just agree to disagree.

    I just hope Soriano opts out after 2012 (which means he pitched at an elite level and is deserving of a new multi-year deal with the Yankees or another club)

  1004. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    It’s DRob the way it was Bard for the Sux?

    :)

    As always, I’ll wait and watch. Love DRob by the way – in the setup role. No idea how he would transition in a closer role. Nobody does. But I know that Soriano knows how to close.

    And as was pointed out, when Soriano signed on, nobody knew that DRob would turn in the kind of season he did.

  1005. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    no telling if drob can close, you just don’t know till a guy has done it. not saying he can’t just saying he hasn’t so you cant be sure.

  1006. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Prince will end up with the Nats…..I hope.

    Since Robertson is the best non-Rivera reliever they have…..and he’s young and cheap…..Ill say he’s the current most likely heir apparent.

  1007. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    BD -

    PLAYER OPTIONS AREN’T THAT RARE!

    But if you’re saying that the double player option is rare, so is finding a closer who can follow Mo.

    Again, the Yankees always have to be looking way down the road. Yankee fans, for the most part, look at today.

  1008. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    I just hope Soriano opts out after 2012 (which means he pitched at an elite level and is deserving of a new multi-year deal with the Yankees or another club)
    ==============
    with options? :)

  1009. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    “no telling if drob can close, you just don’t know till a guy has done it. not saying he can’t just saying he hasn’t so you cant be sure.”

    Just said the same thing. The Sux had all but signed Bard to close if Papelbum left – until they tried him out in the closer role and he fell apart!

  1010. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    LGY December 29th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
    Soriano was worth it because of the 24 innings of 3.4 ERA baseball he pitched after Joba went down?

    WoW. You can’t be serious.
    ///

    No. His presence could make the Yankees see that Joba in the bullpen is redundant, and also not the best use of his talents.

  1011. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    “BD, that wasn’t going to work! Why would he sign on for 3 years as a reliever if there would be no pot of gold (closing) at the end of the rainbow? This is all about closing for the Yankees!”

    ————–

    good point – except he just opted in for 2012… and the odds of him being the Yankees closer of the future are much lower than they were last year (with the emergence of Robertson)

    We can agree to disagree, and your point is valid, but I tend to think Boras added the player options strictly for monetary reasons (as is his style.)

    I just see zero advantage for the Yanks there and I guess I don’t think Soriano deserved to be the only player in the game with a contract like that.

    I hope he pitches great – that’s all.

  1012. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    if you saw that yankee closeup on Robo, you would see how qualified he is to close…he is an unassuming perfectionist who works hard in the offseason

  1013. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    all i can say is the if prince signs with DC he’d better check the spelling on his jersey before the presser….both sides!

  1014. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Joba as Mendoza.

  1015. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    Robertson has pitched a ton of high leverage situations as a Yankee and has thrived in those opportunities ……so yea he’s never closed……but there is very little to suggest he couldn’t handle it.

  1016. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    “BD -

    PLAYER OPTIONS AREN’T THAT RARE! ”

    ————-

    Well, I could be wrong for sure. But I’d like to see some.

    So far, the only player option I could find that wasn’t either a vesting option OR for a much lower salary (ex. Jeter dropping from $15M to $8M if he opts in) was Ryan Dempster.

    Can you think of any others?

  1017. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:26 pm

    We don’t know who will follow Mo and we won’t know until we do.

    I know, very pithy.

    :)

  1018. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Poor Mariners. I don’t know why they just can’t seem to make good deals that stick.

    :(

  1019. Triple Short of a Cycle December 29th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    If the Yankees traded Montero for Carlos Zambrano there would still be some on here who would defend the move

  1020. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    i would trade zambrano for aj….all zambrano wants to do is win.

  1021. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    “We don’t know who will follow Mo and we won’t know until we do.”
    ____________________________________________________

    …so it’s a known unknown…(thanks sec. rumsfeld!)

  1022. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    mick is there something to suggest that aj doesnt want to win?

  1023. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    mick is there something to suggest that aj doesnt want to win?
    =====================
    no. just the fiber of his being.

  1024. Mike_Boston December 29th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle December 29th, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    If the Yankees traded Montero for Carlos Zambrano there would still be some on here who would defend the move
    ———————————————–
    Let’s not get carried away…that’s a ridiculous example.

  1025. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    well, im all for fiber, but 9-7, 4.82, 1.44whip in the nl would suggest that something more than firber is needed.

  1026. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:35 pm

    blake – no need to be contentious. We’ll know when we know.

    My point is that when the deal was made with Soriano, he had already amassed 80+ saves. You can at least imagine that the Yankees were thinking future closer.

    If DRob ends up being the Yankee closer, good for us. I don’t have any vested interest in Soriano or anybody else. And I don’t get in a twist about Yankee moves or nonmoves. What happens I get behind.

    I spend my time attempting to understand why certain moves are being made – or not being made. I find the intellectual part of the process much more intriguing than trying to psyche out who should be on the team.

    Peace.

  1027. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    zambrano has been a cub too long….he would thrive as a #2 behind CC

  1028. Triple Short of a Cycle December 29th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    Let’s not get carried away…that’s a ridiculous example.

    —————————————————–

    Ok how about Montero and Banuelos for Garza. Better?

  1029. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    BD, I’ve seen lots of player options when looking at different team transactions over the years. But I’m not talking exorbitant salary player options. I thought you were saying that player options in general were rare.

  1030. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:38 pm

    Zambrano reviving career in Venezuela – SweetSpot Blog – ESPN

  1031. ron December 29th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    You don’t pay 12 million or so for a reliever unless they are a closer,or soon to take over as the closer.
    Now with the new cba,and the self imposed salary cap,soriano was not only a bad deal,it was absolutely terrible,and i’d bet cashman would say so himself,if a gun was to his head.
    It prevents them from upgrading in other areas for soriano’s entire 3 year contract.

    That’s not even mentioning the lost draft picks.

    The yankees are already paying the price because they get charged more for players,i’t more expensive to live in ny,and the league is targeting only a few teams like the yankees,rs,etc…,with the lux tax & rev sharing,so it is not smart to pay 4-10 x the market value for any player,especially a pitcher who is not even closing,and lost his setup job to robertson.

    It’s nice to say,i don’t care what anybody says,i like soriano,and still believe it will pay off.

    The reality is,unless soriano takes over the setup role,and helps us win some big playoff series,or ends up closing for us,for whatever reason,it is a disaster contract,based on the draft picks alone.

    Up to this point,1/3 of the way through his contract,he has done nothing at all for us.

  1032. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    espn.go.com/blog/…/_/id/…/zambrano-reviving-career-in-venezuela

  1033. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    No. His presence could make the Yankees see that Joba in the bullpen is redundant, and also not the best use of his talents

    —–

    Pruf

    Despite rallying against Sori all last winter, I said from the beginning I’d be cool with the Soriano move if

  1034. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    No. His presence could make the Yankees see that Joba in the bullpen is redundant, and also not the best use of his talents

    —–

    Pruf

    Despite rallying against Sori all last winter, I said I’d be cool with the move if it led to Joba starting.

    I was responding to GB7.

  1035. LGY December 29th, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    Sry for the double post.

  1036. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    “blake – no need to be contentious. We’ll know when we know”

    Im not…..I just think very unlikely that Soriano will be the Yankees closer when/if Mo ever hangs them up…….lot of reasons ……his age, injury history, personality, how much money he will make etc…..

  1037. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    marte and aj didnt deserve their contracts either but since they both helped win a game in the post they are worthy?
    alex is worthy of his contract.
    bad contracts? maybe
    an obstruction for us getting talent that isnt out there and impeding our chance to win?…i doubt it.

  1038. Mike_Boston December 29th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Ok how about Montero and Banuelos for Garza. Better?
    ———————————————————–
    That is slightly better yes, but we’re talking razor thin.

  1039. blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    If the Yanks didn’t move Jobber to the rotation last winter……then its tough to see them ever doing it…….

  1040. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Zambrano receives 16 stitches after being hit in face by liner …
    articles.chicagotribune.com/…/chi-zambrano-recovering-after-being-.

  1041. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    Zambrano walks out on Cubs – Boston.com
    articles.boston.com/…/29884657_1_25th-homer-cubs-manager-mike.
    =======================
    Wouldn’t you?
    Theo would stick it to the sox by taking AJ and giving us Carlos the Great.

  1042. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:45 pm

    “BD, I’ve seen lots of player options when looking at different team transactions over the years.”

    ————

    trisha,

    I skimmed through Cots contracts and found 6 contracts in all of baseball with a true player option (not a vesting option or with a club buyout)

    I could have missed some but it’s clear that it’s still very unusual for even a one year player option.

    Dempster (exercised this year), Aroldis Chapman, Huston Street, Jorge De La Rosa, Jeter, Soriano

    and several of those have conditions or are at a greatly reduced salary (Jeter’s $8M for example)

  1043. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    “That’s not even mentioning the lost draft picks.”

    ————

    well, they only lost one pick… but still hurts

  1044. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    alex is worthy of his contract.
    =================
    should be a ? at the end.

  1045. mick December 29th, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    cash will make a splash before offseason end……night all.

  1046. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    first off, taking zambrano and his .244 avg out of the nl would be a crime

    secondly dont you worry that he would be up all night im’ing his friends in wrigleyville and have to go on the dl with tennis elbow like in ’05?

    thirdly, he’s crazy…

  1047. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    cmon, we all just accept arod’s contract as a disaster and move on. nobody expects it to be worth it now or pretty much ever, but its in the past. even those who were against it at the time (myself very included) have gotten over it. there’s no point…

  1048. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    LGY December 29th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
    No. His presence could make the Yankees see that Joba in the bullpen is redundant, and also not the best use of his talents

    —–

    Pruf

    Despite rallying against Sori all last winter, I said I’d be cool with the move if it led to Joba starting.

    I was responding to GB7.
    //

    OK, sorry.

  1049. blake December 29th, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    for all those bent out of shape over the Soriano signing…..this pic should make you feel better

    http://riveraveblues.com/

  1050. Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    …we all have our pavano’s to bear…

  1051. J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:23 pm

    I don’t see why people can’t let go of the Pavano fiasco. Other teams wanted to sign the guy, too, including the Sux. They gave him a lot of money & he couldn’t stay on the mound. Not like they gave up prospects or a good player for the guy.

  1052. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    “I don’t see why people can’t let go of the Pavano fiasco.”

    ————–

    $40M seems like nothing compared to AJ’s $82.5M

    Jaret Wright for 3/21, Igawa $46M, heck Farnsworth 3/$17M…

    It won’t be the last either.

    When you need to win every year, you take more risks.

  1053. Yank1 December 29th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Remember when the Yankees pulled Rasner from the rotation after sucking, in August, to promote Kennedy, Kennedy has a bad start against the Angels and is sent down, and Rasner is re-inserted in the rotation?

    Good times.

  1054. tucker December 29th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    Soriano will opt out next year if he has a strong year and Mo retires. He will be able to get a 2-3 year deal after this year.

  1055. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    “Soriano will opt out next year if he has a strong year and Mo retires. He will be able to get a 2-3 year deal after this year.”

    ———–

    probably.

    His player option is for $14M with a 1.5M buyout. So as long as he can get more than $12.5M in guaranteed money there’s a good chance of that…. even if it’s just 2/$20M and he probably opts out when you consider he still gets $1.5M from the Yanks if he does.

    but of course he needs to pitch well first. And we hope he does.

  1056. tucker December 29th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Boras probably wrote that contract in anticipation of Soriano becoming the heir apparent to Mo after two years. If he performs, he will have all the leverage. He interesting question becomes whether the Yanks resign him if he has a year similar to 2010.

  1057. blake December 29th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    “He interesting question becomes whether the Yanks resign him if he has a year similar to 2010.”

    I seriously doubt it.

  1058. tucker December 29th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    I guess it all depends on whether they think DRob is ready to close and Joba returns strong. With their newfound fiscal conservatism, they probably will not spend that kind of money on a closer.

  1059. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    ““He interesting question becomes whether the Yanks resign him if he has a year similar to 2010.”

    I seriously doubt it.”

    ===

    I agree – and just out of curiosity:

    Possible 2013 Free Agent Closers:

    Capps
    Farnsworth
    Valverde
    Street
    K-Rod
    Mariano
    Soriano

    JJ Putz and Soria have club options that will get picked up if they pitch decent – Grant Balfour also.

  1060. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    “With their newfound fiscal conservatism, they probably will not spend that kind of money on a closer.”

    ————-

    Bingo. If they can solve the 9th with a cheaper in-house guy, they’ll be looking to get under the soft-cap for sure.

  1061. BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    And once Feliciano is off the books (after declining Marte’s option this season), Sean Marshall is a free agent next year.

    Next in line for expensive disappointing lefty reliever on the Yanks? :)

  1062. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    in a couple of years Montero’s DH job will be given to AROD

  1063. Yank1 December 29th, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Maybe they can convince A-Rod to retire or become a coach/manager/part owner so that he doesn’t take Montero’s DH spot?

  1064. tucker December 29th, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    Whatever they decide, post-Mo will be unchartered territory for this era of Yanks baseball.

  1065. Red Robin December 29th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Rodriguez ‘fine’ after procedure …

    or

    Rodriguez ‘fined’ after procedure …

  1066. Red Robin December 29th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    please clarify

  1067. joeman December 29th, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    Arod will want to get the HR record you would think, it looks like it’s going to take a least 4 years to get it maybe into the 5th… he’s going to be the DH, Montero better learn how to play RF otherwise………….

  1068. pat December 29th, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    Pujols has $31 million in bonuses in his contract in addition to the $254 so backloading it could get very pricey for them some years.

  1069. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 1:06 am

    So now Rodriguez will need 4 years to hit 2 homers to pass Griffey to get into 5th place? Really brilliant.

  1070. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 1:08 am

    •The Yankees have been quiet this winter seemingly in an attempt to avoid a hefty luxury tax penalty next season, but one AL executive doesn’t think this strategy will last. “I think they can sit back right now,” the anonymous exec told The Star-Ledger’s Jeff Bradley, “because on paper they have a very strong team. But do I think the Yankees won’t spend aggressively if they start to dip in the win column? Not a chance. I think they’ll do what they have to do to win.”

  1071. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 2:31 am

    Here is a good question: Why would the Yankees make Soriano the closer when he doesnt have the track record, consistency, or health to back it up? He has 1 good year as a closer. Seeing as how Cashman did not even want him, and it was made by Hal and Randy, I doubt those 2 geniuses were like ‘Oh yea closer of the future!” (Well maybe they were, but they would be wrong)

  1072. jacksquat December 30th, 2011 at 3:50 am

    If Soriano has a good 2012 and stays with the team for 2013, and Mo retires after 2012, he could become the closer. I would not assume it will be Robertson, even if his 2012 is like his 2011.

    And I think I’d like Robertson more in the 7th/8th anyway, as I like him more with runners on base.

  1073. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:23 am

    More On Rodriguez’ knee and shoulder procredure, and this little bit of info:

    * Despite the fact the Yankees have not made any significant or expensive additions this offseason, team president Randy Levine yesterday said the organization is not at its payroll limit.”

    “There’s obviously room to improve the team,” Levine told The Post yesterday. “I don’t like to get into the amounts, but obviously there’s room to improve the team.”

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....um=twitter

  1074. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 6:19 am

    GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 1:06 am

    So now Rodriguez will need 4 years to hit 2 homers to pass Griffey to get into 5th place? Really brilliant.
    ———————————————
    read what I wrote carefully

  1075. Mike Ri December 30th, 2011 at 6:41 am

    There’s obviously room to improve the team,” Levine told The Post yesterday. “I don’t like to get into the amounts, but obviously there’s room to improve the team.”

    ——-

    uh oh… seems like Levine is getting the itch to make a move ! .

  1076. MTU December 30th, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Earth calling Mr.Levine.

    “You are a man in a clown suit”.

    “Stay out of baseball operations”.

    “Go sell somebody somethin’ “.

    Maybe Mayor Bloomberg needs another Bentley ?

    ;)

  1077. MTU December 30th, 2011 at 7:01 am

    Play ball !!!!!

    Have Pitchers and Catchers reported yet ?

  1078. blake December 30th, 2011 at 7:39 am

    ,” Levine told The Post yesterday. “I don’t like to get into the amounts, but obviously there’s room to improve the team.”

    Translation : there is still room to add Ryan Madson.

  1079. MTU December 30th, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Good morning Blake.

  1080. blake December 30th, 2011 at 7:44 am

    Hey MTU. Im ready for spring!

  1081. MTU December 30th, 2011 at 7:55 am

    Blake-

    I hear that !

    ;)

  1082. NYYanksFan December 30th, 2011 at 8:17 am

    Levine has the power to make the crazy trades and signings he comes up with.

    Think how stupid you’d look if all the trades and signings you wanted were done.

    I would think playing team executive is easier than being one.

  1083. Carlo December 30th, 2011 at 8:52 am

    HARV(23) 67 BC 46 Final

    CAMP 81 NCST 87 Final

    ELON 62 UNC(6) 100 Final

    YALE 71 WAKE 72 Final

    GT 66 FOR 72 Final

    The yankees staff is like the ACC. CC is unc or duke, and the rest of the guys are the box of mediocrity known as “the bottom half of the conference”……when bottom half means teams 3 through 12.

  1084. MTU December 30th, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Later Blake.

    Hike day. Got to get ready.

    Have a good one.

  1085. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 9:24 am

    the longer this goes on without any word of kuroda negotiating with anyone, the more i think he’s going back to japan

  1086. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 9:31 am

    MTU December 30th, 2011 at 6:54 am
    Earth calling Mr.Levine.

    “You are a man in a clown suit”.

    “Stay out of baseball operations”.

    “Go sell somebody somethin’ “.

    Maybe Mayor Bloomberg needs another Bentley ?
    ///

    Indeed. What other MLB team has a pop star president? They need to hide this guy better.

  1087. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Translation : there is still room to add Ryan Madson.
    ////

    Who needs Kuroda? We’re going to revolutionize the game and usher in the era of the one-inning pitcher over nine. Joba was the prototype, and history will view his “conversion” as a trend-setting triumph.

  1088. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Carlo

    You need to get over your jealously of the ACC. You seem obsessed with this notion of UNC and Duke and nobody else. Kind of dumb statement coming from someone who follows the AL East.

  1089. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Looks like Liriano is about to join Leones. Anyone know if Deportes is showing these DWL playoff games? I don’t see any mention of Noesi and an injury anywhere on the Dominican sites.

    Never thought we wouldn’t add if we need to. We will never shoot ourselves in the foot because of a stingy budget. Let’s just hope Levine doesn’t assert himself too much when it comes to the player personnel area. What a disaster.

  1090. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 9:45 am

    YS Guy, Kuroda may very well go back to Japan.

  1091. Gary December 30th, 2011 at 9:47 am

    •The Phillies aren’t likely to bid on Yoenis Cespedes and Bob Brookover of the Philadelphia Inquirer argues that Jorge Soler (the other intriguing Cuban outfield prospect on the market the winter) is also too unproven and expensive for the potential $20MM+ contract he could receive from a team.

    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Morning, little blurb on the Cubans from the Phillies Writters.

  1092. Shame Spencer December 30th, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Hey reading through the comments can I just ask… Why was it such a surprise DRob had such a great year last year? Dude has been Houdini since he came up. In fact, I’m pretty sure there were some people here saying that he’d be the heir to the throne long before the Soriano signing.

    I was personally offended for DRob after reading the comments from last night. Anyone who thinks Soriano is our future closer must not be watching these two guys pitch.

  1093. Gary December 30th, 2011 at 9:52 am

    Mike Ri December 30th, 2011 at 6:41 am
    There’s obviously room to improve the team,” Levine told The Post yesterday. “I don’t like to get into the amounts, but obviously there’s room to improve the team.”

    ——-

    uh oh… seems like Levine is getting the itch to make a move ! .

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I would not read it that way. I didn’t see the question but I’ll asssume it has to do with the whole financial structure involving salary cap, luxury tax ect being an impedement to why the Yanks aren’t making any moves. I think it just said if we have an opportunity we have the cash to do it. After the postseason the mantra was pitching pitching pitching so it should be no surprise that the Yanks have been looking to improve the team, but have not found the right deal.

  1094. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 9:56 am

    yankeefem, maybe they’re trying to calm down the restless natives out here in virtual space.

    They’ve been so quiet, it wouldn’t surprise me if they have some bonanza brewing (I’ve a hunch I would not like the result of that). I’ll rest easier if they just spend on Kuroda and a Cuban or two. I guess the Japanese kid’s on tap, too. We’ll see what happens, but someone needs to put a sock in Levine’s mouth. Why is he even doing these interviews. :facepalm:

  1095. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    There is NOTHING to deal for, and what IS out there won’t be achieved without the team allowing itself to be ripped it off. That’s my view, and I hope it’s theirs, too, but I’m not counting on that.

  1096. Gary December 30th, 2011 at 10:02 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 9:56 am
    yankeefem, maybe they’re trying to calm down the restless natives out here in virtual space.

    They’ve been so quiet, it wouldn’t surprise me if they have some bonanza brewing (I’ve a hunch I would not like the result of that). I’ll rest easier if they just spend on Kuroda and a Cuban or two. I guess the Japanese kid’s on tap, too. We’ll see what happens, but someone needs to put a sock in Levine’s mouth. Why is he even doing these interviews. :facepalm:

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    J Alfred read my post I think he just answered a question. Of course it gets turned around here. I don’t see anything objectionable to what he said.

  1097. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    Crazy guy on twitter who claims to have predicted Pujols and other signings claims Yanks have included Banuelos in Garza talks and that Tigers probably get Garza – crazy times on The Internet.

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Banuelos IS in the package being talked about for Garza, says a Cubs source. #Cubs #Yankees

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    @
    @ndfootballfan25 traded… Tigers my guess

    Scott Swaim
    @MLBInsideNews
    Multiple connections in the MLB. Broke the news of Albert Pujols signing with the Angels, Cuddyer/Rockies, Furcal/Cardinals, Beltran/Cardinals

    Guy is certifiable. . . . .

  1098. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    Shame, morning! DRob isn’t a surprise at all. He has always had ice water in his veins, going back to his days at ‘Bama. He should have been trusted to pitch in this role a long time ago. Yanks were late to the realization, but better late than never.

  1099. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 9:43 am
    Looks like Liriano is about to join Leones. Anyone know if Deportes is showing these DWL playoff games? I don’t see any mention of Noesi and an injury anywhere on the Dominican sites.

    Never thought we wouldn’t add if we need to. We will never shoot ourselves in the foot because of a stingy budget. Let’s just hope Levine doesn’t assert himself too much when it comes to the player personnel area. What a disaster.

    In Noesi’s last game, there was 11 pitchers use by his manager in 13 innings and only 4 runs allowed. Looks like he was just attempting ro get everyone in and cut everyone’s innings. Nothing on Noesi getting hurt.

  1100. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:07 am

    Shame, I didn’t read the comments, so can’t imagine who’d think Soriano would trump DRob in closer role, but DRob’s K rates in the minors, before most set eyes on him, were a preview of what was to come. Even though he’s always walked guys, he’s also historically stingy on the long ball. He could cut down the BBs, but they have proven Kerry Wood-esque.

  1101. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Banuelos IS in the package being talked about for Garza, says a Cubs source. #Cubs #Yankees
    _____
    Talked about by whom? The Cubs? Not us, I don’t believe it.

  1102. Gary December 30th, 2011 at 10:08 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:01 am
    There is NOTHING to deal for, and what IS out there won’t be achieved without the team allowing itself to be ripped it off. That’s my view, and I hope it’s theirs, too, but I’m not counting on that.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I think they are agreeing, that’s why they haven’t done much. I think the outlooks change by the hour and the day based of the offers they get and the acquisions that other teams make. Who is to say what will happen it can change overnight. It has to be a pretty fliud buisness.

  1103. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:09 am

    GB, thought that might be the case; those DW innings usually have their own logic. (fingers crossed)

  1104. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:10 am

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    J Alfred read my post I think he just answered a question. Of course it gets turned around here. I don’t see anything objectionable to what he said.
    ///

    Huh? What’s this guy doing being interviewed AT ALL? He should shut up and bean count – Cashman is the GM.

  1105. Gary December 30th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:10 am
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    J Alfred read my post I think he just answered a question. Of course it gets turned around here. I don’t see anything objectionable to what he said.
    ///

    Huh? What’s this guy doing being interviewed AT ALL? He should shut up and bean count – Cashman is the GM.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Respectfully, he’s the President of the club, so I think that qualifies him to do interviews. Talking to the local media is part of the job.

  1106. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Agree on Levine, last I heard he wasn’t an evaluator of talent even though he may think he is. Stick to the budget and the negotiation of contracts. Oh, wait. :roll:

  1107. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:13 am

    yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:08 am
    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Banuelos IS in the package being talked about for Garza, says a Cubs source. #Cubs #Yankees
    _____
    Talked about by whom? The Cubs? Not us, I don’t believe it.
    ////

    This is what troubles me, stuff like this. They float Manny out there, so when we give up, say Betances, whom they “settle” for, we haven’t “caved”. If Cashman puts Betances in a package for Matt flippin’ Garza, I’ll be disappointed in him. If any of those guys go for less than a Felix, the Yankees have compromised.

  1108. mick December 30th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    I was personally offended for DRob after reading the comments from last night. Anyone who thinks Soriano is our future closer must not be watching these two guys pitch.
    ===================
    I guess you missed mine.

  1109. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 10:14 am

    “In fact, I’m pretty sure there were some people here saying that he’d be the heir to the throne long before the Soriano signing.”

    Actually go back a couple of years, when he first came up and people wanted to DFA him. No patience on Lohud.

    I’m not kidding– I remember a series against the Angels in particular when a lot of people were really down on DRob ( not to single out SJ, but I remember he was one of them).

    Of course I can say all that with a smile because I was in his corner. :D

  1110. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:12 am
    Agree on Levine, last I heard he wasn’t an evaluator of talent even though he may think he is. Stick to the budget and the negotiation of contracts. Oh, wait.
    ///

    It isn’t bad enough that they undercut Cashman on the Soriano thing. Now he’s running around doing PR damage control. When this guy opens his mouth, it’s to massage public perception. Just shut up and stop undermining your GM.

  1111. mick December 30th, 2011 at 10:15 am

    Levine is an extension of Hank who is an extension of George.
    No wonder Hal didn’t want the job years ago.

  1112. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Actually go back a couple of years, when he first came up and people wanted to DFA him. No patience on Lohud.
    ///

    Morning, Tar. Hope you had a swell holiday. Figures on DRob. Projection is not the strong suit of most in this place, I find.

  1113. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Tar, I was advocating for DRob to get high leverage innings from the moment I joined LoHud. Ditto, Rich in NJ and a few others. But I think it was a no-brainer even going back a year or two. Kid has always had tremendous stuff and ice water in his veins. Watching him work out of jams at the Stadium live the last 3 years, have been some non-pareil Yankee moments. The kid was a closer in college, not some converted starter. He is money.

  1114. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    mick, lol.

  1115. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:08 am
    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Banuelos IS in the package being talked about for Garza, says a Cubs source. #Cubs #Yankees
    _____
    Talked about by whom? The Cubs? Not us, I don’t believe it.

    ********

    It appears that based on this info – Banuelos was submitted as part of a proposal – all proposals are in and the Cubbies are deciding. IF the Tigers win – than that must mean they included Jacob Turner (who if he was a Yankees prospect would have already had a monument built for him on hype and anticipation and longing for the future that the Yankees, media, and its fan base are good at doing – myself admittedly included – I am prospect hugger but I also admit the errors of my ways – a walking contradiction)

    “They say Gary Sanchez hits homeruns as far as the eye can see in Single A. But they also say Ruben Rivera also hit those same types of lightower shots in Single A.” Anonymous.

  1116. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Respectfully, he’s the President of the club, so I think that qualifies him to do interviews. Talking to the local media is part of the job.
    ///

    Gary, respectfully, I don’t think he should be discussing the likelihood of player moves. He should be handling budget stuff in his office, and come out for innocuous public, ribbon-cutting events and the like. I think there’s some ego thing here that needs to come under control. He’s not the GM, and he has no baseball background to be weighing in on non-financial concerns. And even though he weighs in on the budget privately, that stuff is not for public consumption. Cashman is the only voice we need to hear on that front, and really, the less he says, the better, too.

  1117. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:22 am

    This is what troubles me, stuff like this. They float Manny out there, so when we give up, say Betances, whom they “settle” for, we haven’t “caved”. If Cashman puts Betances in a package for Matt flippin’ Garza, I’ll be disappointed in him. If any of those guys go for less than a Felix, the Yankees have compromised.
    ______
    If we get fleeced by Theo, that would be sickening. Again, definitely a Garza fan (when he isn’t overthrowing FB’s) but not interested for an overpay.

  1118. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 10:27 am

    yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Tar, I was advocating for DRob to get high leverage innings from the moment I joined LoHud. Ditto, Rich in NJ and a few others. But I think it was a no-brainer even going back a year or two. Kid has always had tremendous stuff and ice water in his veins. Watching him work out of jams at the Stadium live the last 3 years, have been some non-pareil Yankee moments. The kid was a closer in college, not some converted starter. He is money.

    ——–

    I made the same claims a couple of years back. He’s had swing and miss stuff since his days at Alabama.

    Believe it or not, some in this forum actually believed Edwar Ramirez was more likely to have a long term future with this club.

    LOL.

  1119. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Gary December 30th, 2011 at 10:08 am
    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:01 am
    There is NOTHING to deal for, and what IS out there won’t be achieved without the team allowing itself to be ripped it off. That’s my view, and I hope it’s theirs, too, but I’m not counting on that.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I think they are agreeing, that’s why they haven’t done much. I think the outlooks change by the hour and the day based of the offers they get and the acquisions that other teams make. Who is to say what will happen it can change overnight. It has to be a pretty fliud buisness.
    ///

    The degrees of agreement remain a concern for me, and the changeable nature of this stuff is worrisome, especially with the Yankees rushing in and sending mouthpiece Levine out there to calm people down.

    We are this close, this close…to having Banuelos and Betances in the rotation, and one can’t help looking ahead to having a catching tandem of Montero and Gary Sanchez, with Williams in CF and Santana on one of the corners (they’re both so talented, they can swap out). I could probably live with anything else – but I don’t want any of those guys going in a Matt Garza return.

  1120. Bo knows December 30th, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Non Pareil eh?

    A parfait summation.

    Sir Walter Scott on Lohud. Love it.

  1121. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Stoneburner, all you can do is rate your prospects and project them, and protect the ones you value. I wouldn’t trade Sanchez and I have no fears of him turning into a Ruben Sierra. If he does, oh well. It just depends on whether or not via evaluation you want to trade away that kind of potential at a premium position. Having seem him hit, ditto Montero, I would choose not to trade him or Montero. I don’t think we deify these prospects as much as evaluate their ceilings and therefore want to keep the very few who have such potential. Again, we are not talking all or most prospects but a few whose projections might be realized. Whether they ultimately fulfill that projection or not, we won’t know for a few years. But hey, as Mo says, “that’s beisbol…” And btw, Cliff Lee has yet to guarantee a World Series championship …

  1122. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 10:33 am

    If the Yankees are indeed willing to include Banuelos in a package for Garza, I gotta believe that Cashman views Garza as a better pitcher than both Gio and Latos.

  1123. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Ys Guy – Could you do us a favor and take another shower? gosh…

  1124. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Morning everybody. :D

    GF I remember you during that Angels series also being a voice of reason.

    Not to look to much into it, but it’s after 2 or 3 game losing streak that you kind of get a real feel for where people stand.

  1125. blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim Banuelos IS in the package being talked about for Garza, says a Cubs source. #Cubs #Yankees

    No

  1126. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Bo knows, lol.

  1127. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:39 am

    blake, tell us what you really think. ;)

  1128. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Tar December 30th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Morning everybody. :D

    GF I remember you during that Angels series also being a voice of reason.

    Not to look to much into it, but it’s after 2 or 3 game losing streak that you kind of get a real feel for where people stand.

    ———

    I remember that Angels’ series well.

    Most of the comments here, as well as the comments made by the former blogmaster, definitely had a “sky is falling” mentality.

    It was ridiculous then but it would be rather amusing to thumb through those comments now.

    Sadly, they aren’t all that much different than a typical game thread when the Yanks are losing – which is why I don’t even bother to comment during a game or read through them any longer.

    This place simply becomes a cesspool of idiocy.

  1129. blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    The Cubs probably will ask for Banuelos…..that’s no surprise…..I doubt Cashman would go there for two years of Garza. If he were going to go there he would have been more active for 5 years of Latos

  1130. tucker December 30th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    My point is that anybody who follows Mo will have tough shoes to fill. It may be DRob, or it may be somebody else. We just don’t know. Whoever it is will have the near impossible task of attempting to follow a decade and a half of the best reliever in the game.

    And if Mo does retire and Soriano has a strong year, I’d say it’s a strong possibility that Soriano opts out of his contract. Boras will market Soriano as a closer. But if Soriano has another dog of a year, he’ll be with the Yanks in 2013, likely setting up DRob.

  1131. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:42 am

    And btw, Cliff Lee has yet to guarantee a World Series championship …
    ///

    I admit taking great pleasure in watching Lee get smacked around in the postseason now, two years running.

    The romantic naivete is deep on the side of the self- proclaimed “realists”, who want to make deals because “winning” trumps “development.” Well, if only those four for ones, where you watch your upside pitching and position prospects go out the door, guaranteed “winning.”

    Seems to me your chances of winning rest with developing a core of young elite talent that grows up together, setting you up for the potential, at least, of getting there most years. In respect to that philosophy, you DON’T trade one of your best and close-to-majors arms, nor up the middle players who can hit for average and power, including a catcher with through the roof potential and a 5-tool CF who also happens to hit left-handed. No, that’s what you build a team with that perennially makes a run at the championship.

    So, us “huggers” (hugging, uh, five or six guys) are really the guardians of “winning,” and winning over the long haul.

  1132. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 10:44 am

    I call BS. I don’t see Banuelos going anywhere.

    I have no doubt Theo is asking for him. He just isn’t going to get him.

  1133. blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Id only trade Banuelos for a true #1…..Garza ,whom I think is a great fit for the Yanks, isn’t a #1…..he’s a very solid #2 on a championship team with only two years control left……can’t see Cashman including one of the top pitching prospects in the game when he’s better and closer than anyone in the Latos or Gio deals

  1134. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Who is this Scott Swaim character?

  1135. mick December 30th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    IF, this deal is done against his wishes, Cash should resign, as it indicates he has no power, esp. in major deals.

  1136. Bret The Hitman December 30th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Theo and the Cubs are demanding a Banuelos-centered package. They would never do it for a Montero-centered package. Young cost-controlled starters are far more valuable.

  1137. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 10:47 am

    “So, us “huggers” (hugging, uh, five or six guys) are really the guardians of “winning,” and winning over the long haul.”

    I like to hug :wink:

    Didn’t Mo almost get traded? How about Jeter?

    Why is it so hard for some to believe that the next “core” is knocking at the doorstep?

  1138. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 10:48 am

    5-tool CF who also happens to hit left-handed.

    ********

    if you are talking about Williams – please explain the power tool to me – please?

  1139. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 10:44 am
    I call BS. I don’t see Banuelos going anywhere.

    I have no doubt Theo is asking for him. He just isn’t going to get him.
    ///

    If he “gets” Betances, that will be no victory for the Yankees, although that’s how it will be spun, and then we’ll watch Betances turn into a stud starter.

  1140. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    Tar, because winning now trumps winning now and later :?: :roll:

  1141. austinmac December 30th, 2011 at 10:50 am

    I was surprised by Robertson’s year. Everything, if being honest, must have been. He was as good as anyone, closer or otherwise, last year.

    I would be very surprised if Banuelos is in any Garza package but not surprised if that’s what the Cubs demanded.

    Who is traded depends upon the Yankees view of the prospects upside and the chances they assign to reaching it. Much depends on talent and intangibles. We can know little of what the player is like as a person, his work ethic and the like. I did note, not that it necessarily means anything, that Newman said Banuelos has a good upside if he works at it. I wondered if that suggested he needed to work harder.

    I think I will join Trisha and just assume all will be well and the Yankees will make the right moves. Just for today.

  1142. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Cashman aint holdin’ back guys like Banny for a Garza type player. Cashman will use chips of that nature on guys like The Freak, or other Top Notchers. Garza is decent+, but that is all. If this was July, and the Yanks were making a final push for #28, well maybe then I could see some credibility to this tripe. NOT in Dec.
    Is Levine married to a Steinbrenner? He just doesn’t impress me as the type that “bootstraps” his way into a position of authority.

  1143. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:51 am

    the first “winning now” should have been in quotes. ;)

  1144. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Per Buster:

    The Yankees have “quietly checked around” on possible right field alternatives to Nick Swisher as they prepare for his possible free agent departure after next season.

  1145. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Stoneburner, he should develop decent power for a CF. He’s left-handed and will be able to hook the ball into the RF seats. He’s got everything else going for him, and he already hits the ball solidly as a Short-season guy. Power is often the last to rear it’s head, and he isn’t a slap hitter.

  1146. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Noesi, Romine, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Brandon Laird and Corban Joseph for Garza….6 for 1

  1147. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Didn’t Mo almost get traded? How about Jeter?

    Why is it so hard for some to believe that the next “core” is knocking at the doorstep?
    ///

    Um, pervasive cultural ADD?

    Thank goodness for Gene Michael ;) .

  1148. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Bret The Hitman December 30th, 2011 at 10:47 am
    Theo and the Cubs are demanding a Banuelos-centered package. They would never do it for a Montero-centered package. Young cost-controlled starters are far more valuable.
    _____
    The Cubs are loaded in catching prospects, and have Welington Castillo who is mlb-ready. Soto may even be moved.

  1149. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Yeah – I am tempering my expectations a bit and calling him a five tool players – seems as if he has the speed and defense tools – and grades a possible 6 with the hit tool and possibly more – we do not know – do not know about the arm – I am going with this scout’s take – which seems to be Bret Gardner with a better average and some surprising pop – but power is not necessarily a tool:

    Comparisons to current speedy, slap-hitting Yankees outfielder Brett Gardner: For me, I think it’s an interesting comparison. Obviously, Gardner is a guy who has a fantastic approach at the plate. I don’t think Gardner has the same hit potential (as Williams).

    I think this guy has a chance to be a .300 hitter. Gardner remains to be seen, but I think he’s more of a .280 hitter, a grade 5 hit tool. Mason’s got a chance to be a tick better, maybe a 6-upside guy as far as that hit tool. Maybe a .300 hitter, maybe even better than that, considering what he did at the age he was last year.

    Defensively, I think Mason’s probably a little more dynamic. … I know Gardner’s an athletic guy who does a lot of things, but for me, I see a little more upside.

  1150. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:57 am

    spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 10:55 am
    Noesi, Romine, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Brandon Laird and Corban Joseph for Garza….6 for 1
    ///

    Seriously, did San Diego do any better for AGon? I think that’s a much better package.

  1151. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 10:58 am

    “So, us “huggers” (hugging, uh, five or six guys) are really the guardians of “winning,” and winning over the long haul.”
    _____
    Pruf, well said.

  1152. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:59 am

    do not know about the arm
    ///

    He showed arm when I saw him in Brooklyn.

    I gotta go, but I’m happy to continue at a later time. I’ll read through more thoroughly and respond.

  1153. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 11:00 am

    “Thank goodness for Gene Michael”

    No Kidding. I hope he has Cash’s ear in all this.

  1154. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Stoneburner, Gardner is no where near the player that Mason Williams projects to be. Gardner never had the bat potential that Mason has.

  1155. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 11:02 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:57 am
    spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 10:55 am
    Noesi, Romine, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Brandon Laird and Corban Joseph for Garza….6 for 1
    ///

    Seriously, did San Diego do any better for AGon? I think that’s a much better package.
    _____
    This would be a ridiculous overpay.

  1156. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Moreno grabbing Pujols is ALL about cornering the LA Market, while the Dodgers are standing onna street corner selling pencils out of a tin cup. Pujols fits no better on the Angels, than he woulda fit on the current Yankee team. Trumbo shoulda been the starting 1B based on his 29HR rookie season. Plus, it put Abreau out of a job. Come 2014, Pujols + Wells = an on the field and on the ledger nightmare.

  1157. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 11:04 am

    yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 11:01 am
    Stoneburner, Gardner is no where near the player that Mason Williams projects to be. Gardner never had the bat potential that Mason has.

    ********

    First – going with the scout on this one. Second – scout said Williams projects better than Gardner – but NOT this 5 tool CF that some claim him to be. You know who is a five tool CF – Ken frickin Griffey Jr.

  1158. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 11:16 am

    Stoneburner, no one said Williams is a five tool CF yet; that is a projection based on his ceiling, as per the scouting reports. No one has already categorized Williams as a Ken Griffey Jr.–kind of a leap.

    Having seen Williams though, don’t think the comps with Gardner are particularly useful except that they both have speed and play stellar D. But Mason projects to have a higher SLG than Gardner, likely higher OPS. Gardner is a superior Krum type if you want to compare prospects. Don’t see the Mason Williams comps.

  1159. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 11:24 am

    yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 11:02 am
    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 10:57 am
    spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 10:55 am
    Noesi, Romine, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Brandon Laird and Corban Joseph for Garza….6 for 1
    ///

    Seriously, did San Diego do any better for AGon? I think that’s a much better package.
    _____
    This would be a ridiculous overpay.

    ————————————————————————————————————

    How is that proposed package overpay especially considering that Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Sanchez, Nova and Mason Williams aren’t included? In this case it’s quantity over quality, but with that said, Noesi and Romine are both top 10 Yankee prospects and the other 4 rank anywhere from 10 – 20 in terms of Yankee prospects.

  1160. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Sponichi reports that Hiroki Kuroda wants to take as much time as he can to decide on where he will be playing next.  They also mention that people close to Kuroda are saying he will either sign with a team he thinks has a serious shot at making it to the World Series, or Hiroshima.
    If he wil take less the Yankees will give you that shot!
    :)

  1161. 86w183 December 30th, 2011 at 11:25 am

    I’ve dealt with scouts for years. They give guys ratings such as a plus-arm (very good) or a plus-plus arm (elite).

    Most consider a 5-tool player the rare, special player that is plus-plus in all five categories.

    Those categories are hit for average (.300 +), hit for power, run, field and throw. The evaluations is a combination of athletic gifts and skill.

    Alex Rodriguez is the only player on the Yanks that would have been viewed as a “five tool” player. Jeter (no power) and Teixiera (no speed) would have likely been four tool guys. Granderson (no arm, iffy average) comes up just shy of that. Cano (no speed) likely was a 3-tool guy (no power) when signed but the power has developed.

    Keep in mind when I write no power or no speed it means not plus-plus power not the absence of any power at all.

  1162. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 11:27 am

    - PROBABLE 2013 YANKEE RF STARTER -

    (1) ALEX GORDON

    (2) JASON HEYWARD

    (3) SHIN-SOO-CHOO

    (4) DEREK JEETER

    (5) NICK SWISHER

  1163. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 11:30 am

    86, yes, and Mason certainly projects in 4 categories with the power factor, the 5th category having potential but less predictive. Ravel Santana is another spec that comes to mind who is potentially 5 tool. But true 5 tool projections are highly uncommon and difficult to realize in most.

  1164. yankeefeminista December 30th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Heading out, have a good day, all!

  1165. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 11:31 am

    In today’s Insider-only blog post, ESPN’s Buster Olney ranks the ten best outfields in the game. The Cardinals, Yankees, and Rangers top the list

  1166. Villa Nova-Ya December 30th, 2011 at 11:33 am

    spidanyc -

    You’re losing some serious depth with that package – including your three ready-to-go starters from AAA in that package. Betances and Banuelos ideally won’t be considered as “fixes” if something goes awry (IDEALLY). Noesi is #6, and the other two just behind.

  1167. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 11:34 am

    id, you’re right i think i do need another nice shower. im aiming to be the 1500th comment on this post.

    anyway, im not buying the manny rumor.

    also, as for the drob, soriano thing, obviously cashman thought drob or joba could do the job if the 41 y/o closer went down b/c he didnt think they needed sori. he believed in the products of his farm rebuild.

    but i would point out that it’s a big step-up from set-up to closer and lots of guys who had all the right stuff couldn’t take that last step. at least soriano had shown an ability to close out a.l. east games

  1168. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Ys Guy
    What Manny rumor ?
    Haven’t filtered thru the 1500 posts :)

  1169. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Noesi, Romine, Phelps, DJ Mitchell, Brandon Laird and Corban Joseph might get you a replica Matt Garza goatee.

  1170. 86w183 December 30th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    I can’t see the Yanks doing 6-for-1 for anyone not named Felix.

    Laird would have good value to the power-impaired Cubbies as might Justin Maxwell or Jorge Vasquez. They don’t have a need for Romine or Joseph.

    I could see letting the Cubs take three arms from the list of Warren, Phelps, Kontos, Stoneburner, Mitchell and Whelan plus Laird or Vasquez. If that’s not good enough to get Garza then let it slide. I’m holding on to Noesi.

    I’d also consider AJ for Zambrano or AJ for Soriano. As I’ve written many times I don’t see the Yanks eating cash, but I do think they would look at a toxic contract under-achiever change of scenery type deal.

  1171. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Villa Nova-Ya December 30th, 2011 at 11:33 am
    spidanyc -

    You?re losing some serious depth with that package ? including your three ready-to-go starters from AAA in that package. Betances and Banuelos ideally won?t be considered as ?fixes? if something goes awry (IDEALLY). Noesi is #6, and the other two just behind.

    ———————————————————————————————————

    CC, Garza, Nova, Garcia, AJ, Hughes, Adam Warren – is 7 not enough?

  1172. 86w183 December 30th, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Buster Olney also ranked the Braves’ bullpen that crashed, burned, choked and gave a away the post-season berth AHEAD of the Yankees pen.

  1173. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    yt someone on the internet (so you know it’s true) says the yankees have included manny in their proposed trade for garza.

  1174. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    You’re losing some serious depth with that package – including your three ready-to-go starters from AAA in that package. Betances and Banuelos ideally won’t be considered as “fixes” if something goes awry (IDEALLY). Noesi is #6, and the other two just behind.

    I don’t think spider’s package would bring back Garza, but lets look at it:
    -The main portion-
    Noesi – Easy to trade, hasnt done anything
    Romine – Easy to trade, blocked by 2 better players, doesnt have the upside of Montero infact I think he SHOULD be traded though his injuries and slow 2nd halves have hurt his value

    -Secondary Value-
    David Phelps – A serviceable #5 most likely at the major league level
    DJ Mitchell – A serviceable #5 at the major league level, maybe a reliever
    Brandon Laird – An infielder that isnt great at fielding that can hit for some power but lacks

    -Throw ins-
    Corban Joeseph – MIF that can hit a little bit but with little power, likely a backup or bust kind of guy

    Basically turning any of these players into Matt Garza is a victory for the Yankees. Noesi isn’t in the Yankee top 10 from BA.

  1175. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 11:47 am

    86w183-
    Doesn’t Alfonso Soriano have 3 years/54M left?
    AJ 2/33M

  1176. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Laird lacks plate discipline, dunno why that got cut off.

  1177. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:52 am

    the #8 ranked prospect+5 guys that don’t rank. Sign me up.

  1178. Gary December 30th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Just my opinion, but the map has changed this offseason. The Yanks have to be looking at LA, Texas and Detroit in the other divisions and probably Minnesota is always lurking, and TB, Toronto, and the Sox in theirs. Awful lot of teams in that mix that can compete at a high level. There are going to be alot of teams that could take the WC beyond the Division winners.

    Worst case scenario would be having to play that WC winner take all game. I expect there will be a dog fight for those slots and you won’t have the luxury of setting up your pitching for that game. Yes I know in advance that we do want to win the division.

  1179. austinmac December 30th, 2011 at 12:01 pm

    The Yankees are not trading Burnett unless and until they add a 200 inning starter to replace him. Say what you will about Burnett, he does pitch every fifth day and give 5+ innings. None of the minor league ready guys can be considered likely to do that. In short, they need him.

    I say that hating every inning he pitches awaiting the implosion as he walks, hits batters and wild pitches his way into a big inning.

    Add a pitcher, and he is on the block.

  1180. Mike Ri December 30th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Per Mlbtraderumors

    The Yankees have “quietly checked around” on possible right field alternatives to Nick Swisher as they prepare for his possible free agent departure after next season.
    Andre Ethier can also become a free agent after 2012, and Olney points out that a pre-deadline trade involving the Dodgers outfielder is possible.

  1181. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    The numerous trades and signings involving Closers, shows Philly boned it when they jumped on Papelbon immediately outta the gate. A very dumb and expensive mistake. For a while, Amaro made some good moves. Now the guy is just flailing around, signing almost anything that moves, (Thome), and painting himself into a corner with players like Polanco and possibly Utley that no team will touch with a 10 ft. pole. He’s also got Ryan Howard starting the season on the D\L and gonna be there for who knows how long, and should Hamels eventually walk, the party is Over in Philly for years to come.

  1182. raymagnetic December 30th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    The Yankees had the best record last year and only lost Colon and gained a full year of Montero.

    I like their chances.

    Then again I always like their chances.

  1183. 86w183 December 30th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    I don’t care what Baseball America’s rankings are. I really like what I’ve seen from Noesi.

    I don’t think the Cubs want or need Romine who has excellent value elsewhere

    Soriano has more $$$ on his deal…. it’s a possible sweetener to get Garza for less talent. The Cubs really need to burn it down and start over.

    It would be surprising to see Banuelos in a Garza trade, but I wouldn’t be apoplectic about it.

  1184. blake December 30th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    The Yanks should be searching for RF alternatives for the future……roll the dice on Cespedes……

  1185. 86w183 December 30th, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    austinmac —

    The idea of moving AJ is based on getting Garza and needing to clear a rotation spot. I don’t see them moving Garcia and I believe Hughes will be solid if not better

  1186. 86w183 December 30th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    My concern about Andre Either is the last three seasons he’s gone from 31 HR, 106 RBI in ’09 to 23 HR 82 RBI in ’10 and last year slid to 11 HR, 62 RBI.

    The 2009 Ethier would be a beast in Yankee Stadium. The 2011 version would get booed.

  1187. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    I would advise you guys to stop swearing by the BA Rankings of Yankee Minor Leaguers. If you have actually seen the player play, I Do wanna hear Your appraisal. But evaluating trade proposals or players in general based on where a publication ranks a player, and or Their opinion as to his tools\ceiling is basically a Pete and Re-Peat routine, and Re-Peat is Blind.

  1188. blake December 30th, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Ethier is a terrible defender and can’t hit lefties at all……Id rather re-sign Swished than him. For 5-7 millions per year Cespedes is a good gamble to take if they believe in his hit tool.

  1189. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    But evaluating trade proposals or players in general based on where a publication ranks a player

    How exactly do you think they come up with these rankings?

    I never understood the arrogance of people around here, that they actually think they know better than the people that do scouting and researching of baseball players for a living. There is a reason you are sitting here posting on a message-board and not actually being a professional scout, your “eye” is not what you think it is.

  1190. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    - BLAKE -
    I just don’t see the Yanks shellin’ out the $$$ for Swish with 2014 in mind. Agree with you concerning Ethier. The guy is strictly Punch-and-Judy, and you just cannot live with that outta yer RF’er. Yanks need to deal some of that talent in the minors to KC for Gordon.

  1191. Bo knows December 30th, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Would it be possible that Noesi was not on BA rating because he is no longer a rookie?

  1192. exiledintampa December 30th, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    that’s it exactly, bo.

  1193. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    - ID -
    I personally do not comment on the ability of a player I have never seen. I do value the appraisal of Anyone that has actually seen a guy play. Personally, I believe you learn more about a player based on the Reaction of those he is playing against.

  1194. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    I hate to say it but since the Cubs want young pitching, a package for Garza would start with both Banuelos and Noesi.

  1195. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    I’m just not sold on Garza like you guys are. I would take Nova over Garza if pickin’ sides on the sandlot, which makes Garza a 3 Slot Yankee SP on the current staff, and not worthy of a top Yankee minor league SP.

  1196. Mike Ri December 30th, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Donnybrook

    I disagree respectively , If Garza landed on the Yanks . .he’d easily be our number 2. I too like Nova.. but all in all … .it was only one year… In my mind Garza has the track record and the stats to be crucial asset to the Yanks.

  1197. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    the current plan in chitown is to rebuild while waiting for the lousy contracts to expire. theo isnt responsible for those contracts so he isnt going to take a paid-off burnett or swisher back or settle for less in order to send soriano or zambrano out of town. thats not his problem and he’s not going to lose out on restocking to make up for the mistakes that preceeded him, imo.

  1198. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Mike Ri December 30th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
    Donnybrook

    I disagree respectively , If Garza landed on the Yanks . .he’d easily be our number 2. I too like Nova.. but all in all … .it was only one year… In my mind Garza has the track record and the stats to be crucial asset to the Yanks.

    *******

    Agree – make some good points. Garza has AL East experience, postseason success (against Red Sox and Texas) and several seasons under his belt. Garza would be the no.2 and Nova would be a very, very, very nice no. 3.

  1199. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    I am absolutely down with the “let’s keep what we have” brigade. We’ve been talking about some of these kids for years, and yet we’re surprised with the success of a Nova. Let’s see what our own can do before trading them in a unnecessary panic over supposed week spots.

  1200. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    I would take Nova over Garza if pickin’ sides on the sandlot

    This shows a pretty far detachment from reality.

  1201. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Nova-hype has reached critical levels. He will be crashing back to earth in T-minus 4 months and counting…

  1202. Mike Ri December 30th, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Some stats on Garza –

    The peripheral stats (2.95 FIP) are as good as it gets. Garza struck out 23.5% of the batters he faced in 2011 (8.85 K/9) while walking just 7.5% (2.86 BB/9), and he got a ground ball 46.3% of the time. That allowed him to keep the ball in the building (0.64 HR/9) despite pitching in a notorious hitters? park.

    Garza has proven to be durable, making at least 30 starts and throwing at least 180 IP in each of the last four seasons. If you go back to 2006 and include his time in in the minors, it?s six straight seasons of at least 30 starts and 175 IP. Pretty impressive.

    After all that time with the Rays, Garza is obviously familiar with life in the AL East. He?s pitched in the playoffs as well as the World Series, most notably throwing this gem against the Red Sox in Game Seven of the 2008 ALDS.

  1203. Bo knows December 30th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    Assets are assigned value are they not?

    So first of all Nova was under four ERA in the AL East as a rookie, where Garza was over four while in the AL, second Noesi has been rated higher than Nova and Banuelos is rated above them both. Not to mention at least fifty mil in wages. Where is the upgrade?

    It’s a con job. Garza could pull up lame in the first game as could any pitcher. The only safety factor is amount of quality which the Yankees have.

    It boggles the mind.

  1204. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Garza is tainted.

    By spending last year with the Cubs he is now 37% NL CHUCKER. Buyer beware!

  1205. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Not hyping Nova, just watching him do pretty well.

  1206. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    During his three years in the AL East, Garza started 28% of his games against the Yankees or Red Sox.

  1207. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    nova is good, so is garza. if you get garza and keep nova, you have improved the pitching staff. now as for what the cost and the long-term effects are, thats a different story.

  1208. Mike Ri December 30th, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Im not sure how this turned into Nova vs Garza. . . . one has nothing to do with the other .

  1209. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    If Garza does get traded to the Yankees, he is automatically the #2 starter.

    CC, Garza, Nova, Hughes, Garcia would be legit if Hughes can come back to life.

    As it stands now – CC, Nova, Hughes, Garcia, AJ – not so sexy

  1210. m December 30th, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    The only person that’s cagier than Jeter behind the mic is Kobe.

    Here’s a video from yesterday re: his knee & the procedure done to it. If you listen closely you can hear the Yankees beat writers (just kidding) grill Kobe with variations of the same questions.

    Topics covered include his relationship with A-rod, who called who, who recommended the surgery to him. It’s pretty funny because they don’t get many answers.

    Long and short of it: He & A-rod are friends and as a Yankees fan Kobe is happy A-rod got the procedure done. Alex called him and Kobe’s knee is 95%.

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles.....00-percent

  1211. grouchonyy December 30th, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    “I just don’t see the Yanks shellin’ out the $$$ for Swish with 2014 in mind. Agree with you concerning Ethier. The guy is strictly Punch-and-Judy, and you just cannot live with that outta yer RF’er. Yanks need to deal some of that talent in the minors to KC for Gordon.”

    That bit on MLBTR is confusing. They did mention Swissh and Ethier in the same item, but I don’t think it was intended to be linked. The fact that the Yankees are (maybe) looking at replacements if Swish is traded or goes free agent, should not be read that Ethier is directly on their radar.

  1212. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    Last post by PeteAbe on his blog is

    December 29, 2011 11:26 PM

  1213. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Just

    saying .

  1214. raymagnetic December 30th, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    “Nova-hype has reached critical levels. He will be crashing back to earth in T-minus 4 months and counting…”

    Wanna bet?

  1215. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    re: last post by PAbe…it was about the pawsox changing announcers….i guess chad should take time off his vacay and check in with the wandering (scranton) yankees about who’s behind the mike…

  1216. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    raymagnetic – Sure, what are your terms?

  1217. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Pete’s blog also has 6 comments since that last post.

    Just sayin.

  1218. blake December 30th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    I don’t know if nova will have as good a year in 2012 as last year…..but longterm I could see him being pretty good…..a solid 3 type starter which is really valuable.

    If he can get more consistent with the slider and improve command then he’ll be pretty good.

  1219. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    blake – i certainly agree with that. i take issue with the people basically writing him in as the second best starter on this team in 2012.

    IMnsHO, there is a better chance of Hughes repeating 2010 than Nova repeating 2011.

  1220. austinmac December 30th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Garza certainly would be a major rotation upgrade. We all hope Nova will keep improving, but Garza has shown he will produce. Plus, he always struck me as a tough, competitive guy who I think would handle New York well.

    The only thing that makes me think it is possible is Levine’s comment they would spend some to improve. Rather vague, but a glimmer of hope they can spend.

    I would hate to lose Banuelos and don’t think I would trade him or Williams.

  1221. blake December 30th, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    ID,

    Yea I don’t think either are locks but id probably bet more on Nova just because he has more weapons and due to health…..hopefully they’ll both do well.

    Mac,

    Think Garza is a perfect fit……wouldn’t trade Manny or Montero for him….but would love to add him.

  1222. raymagnetic December 30th, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    ID,

    My terms are that Nova will not be worse next year than he was this year based on era+, whip k/9, bb/9.

  1223. 108 stitches December 30th, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Epstein no longer has a vested interest in what happens in Boston. He and Cashman were rivals in the past but respect for each other’s baseball abiliities was never doubted.
    All Cashman needs to do if he wants Garza is tell Epstein who is not available which still leaves enough talent for him to choose from and still not look like he was fleeced.
    They may have had discussions already but Cashman first needs to find a taker for Burnett which opens the floodgates.

  1224. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    raymagnetic – I see no reason to bet on his BB or K per 9 being any different than last year. ERA+, WHIP, FIP? Or just ERA+ and WHIP… either is fine with me. 2 out of 3 categories wins.

    The bet will be… whoever loses has to add ” – Nova didn’t hug back” to their name… or something :)

  1225. Villa Nova-Ya December 30th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    This blog is very self-sustaining at this point! LOL

  1226. Villa Nova-Ya December 30th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Here’s a question. No takers for Burnett. A reasonable request for Garza on the table. You have a taker for Hughes.

    Do you do it?

  1227. spidanyc December 30th, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya December 30th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
    Here?s a question. No takers for Burnett. A reasonable request for Garza on the table. You have a taker for Hughes.

    Do you do it?

    —————————————————————————————–

    Nope – AJ or bust

  1228. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    108 stitches – we’ll never know for sure, but I think this is a very plausible scenario.

  1229. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    OK lets say you all persuaded me to trade AJ (not really). Would you do an AJ to Houston with about 5mil for C. lee and his 1year 18 mil dollars ?

    The Yankees would save about 9 mil over 2 years, plus the cost of not signing A. Jones for this year.

  1230. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Another victory for us the 1% :

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12.....s.html?hpw

  1231. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Just sayinG .

  1232. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Just go back to look at the regular game threads .

    PeteAbe routinely got 15-20% more comments per thread .

  1233. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Toronto shoring up pen – close to signing Darren Oliver.

  1234. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Just sayinG .

  1235. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Red Robin – So he has more reactionary cesspool posts? BIG WINNAR!

    You are the worst troll ever, just saying.

  1236. blake December 30th, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Depends on what you’re gettin back for Hughes…..not giving him away like you would with AJ.

  1237. Benny Blanco December 30th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    it’s amazing how no one thinks nova will be as good as he was last year. I’m sure alot of you thought wang would flop as well after he went 8-5 in his first year. :)

    I will bet money that he will be better than AJ this year……haha.

  1238. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    “a taker?” you mean to give him away?

  1239. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    benny there’s a huge space between being as good as nova was last year and being better than aj.

    …like a gaping chasm…

  1240. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    im sure Pabe would be more than happy to trade you herei permanently for linty pocket lozenge…

  1241. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    benny – It’s very simple, Nova has little control and seemingly no idea where the ball is going sometimes.

    Wang was nothing like that. Anyone that thought he would succeed or fail based on his 8-5 record shouldn’t have been listened to anyway.

  1242. kd December 30th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS

    Andruw jones, yankees in agreement. $2M base plus incentives

  1243. kd December 30th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 1m

    Jones’ incentives are about $1.4M. Deal is pending physical
    12:36 PM – 30 Dec 11 via Mobile Web · Details

  1244. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Bryan Hoch’s outlook on the NYYs 2012 run for the title.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....um=twitter

  1245. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Gardner for Garza

  1246. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Andruw!!

  1247. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    AROD will be the full time DH on or before the 13-14 season….

  1248. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Yankees payroll estimated at 197 with arbitration and $2M for Andruw.

  1249. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    LGY – Boy it’s going to be SO HARD to shake $15mil off that payroll in 3 years. /sarcasm

  1250. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Not in love with the Jones signing, I was hoping they would go younger, sign the Japanese infielder, and use Nunez as the right handed outfielder.

    If this is what that fool Levine thinks is the spending they have left, I am very disappointed.

    Kuroda is such a good fit, call up the Marlins pay more than half of A.J contract, sign Kuroda, then they are ready for the season.

    Earlier I read about 5 tool prospects, and mentioning Williams, he along with Heathcott are 4 tool guys, with the slight potential to add power, but 4 tools is still pretty good.

    With Williams you have a family history to put some added weight on with his dad, so he could develop some extra power, but even then not sure he is ever a true 5 tool guy.

    Anyway I think it was yankeefem who said so, the Yankees have one 5 tool talent, and it’s Ravel Santana, he is a true 5 tool talent, who’s weakest part of his tool set is his hit, and that is still a very strong tool. His other ones are all off the chart from everyone who has ever seen him.

  1251. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    If this is what that fool Levine thinks is the spending they have left, I am very disappointed.

    No, a fool would put Nunez in the outfield.

  1252. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    so Andrew gets to take AB’s away from BG

  1253. Villa Nova-Ya December 30th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Y’s Guy –

    No, no, not to give him away. But a good deal.

  1254. kd December 30th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    gary sanchez> ravel santana > mason williams > ramon flores?

  1255. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    - ID -
    Glad we got you on record predicting Nova, “Crashing back to Earth”. Better get your spatula. The egg is gonna be a nuisance month after month.

  1256. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    donnybrook – In case you haven’t noticed, there is no egg on my face. Look where Darvish went, Texas… just like i said… for more than Dice-K’s posting fee, just like I said.

    Maybe you’ll catch on eventually.

  1257. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    ID dictum: I am smarter than you are, and have a lot more numbers. Nova will be fine.

  1258. kd December 30th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    if i remember correctly, the yankees loved the clubhouse presence that andruw brought. i think sweeny murti said he was instrumental in nunez’s development in hitting.

  1259. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Did you see Nunez play the outfield ID, if you did, and you think Jones is better, you’re the true fool.

    Jones can’t move anymore, Nunez is a much better.

  1260. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    When I compare Nova to Hughes, my attention is immediately drawn to Attitude. Nova pitches with a chip on his shoulder. Hughes just aint got that, “you aint beatin’ me, A-hole” mind set. Clemens had the same approach.

  1261. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Andruw is not only a much better hitter than Nunez but a better OF.

    Nunez looks like he’s on ice skates in the OF.

  1262. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    tomingorgia – more like “i can actually use the numbers without stabbing myself with a spoon” but… have it your way.

    Nova will be fine, I never said he wouldn’t. i never said he would fail horribly either. He just won’t be as good as he was last year. Anyone expecting him to be doesn’t or can’t read the obvious signs.

  1263. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Andrew & Cano seem to enjoy each others company

  1264. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    jason22 – Regardless of your defensive opinions (which seem to be backwards if you actually believe Nunez is a better OF than Jones…) I would rather have 1 ball drop in left field that Jones couldn’t get to, than throw away 3-4 at-bats per game with Nunez.

  1265. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    LGY the comparison between them as athletes is laughable, Jones can not move at all anymore.

    Nunez with time will be a very good outfielder, last year was the first time he get any real playing time,.

    Oh and Jones is not a better hitter than Nunez either.

    He is a pure bad ball hitter nowadays a hanging curveball or a fastball from lefties, against right handers he is useless, unlike Nunez.

  1266. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Oh and Jones is not a better hitter than Nunez either.

    Opinion revoked.

  1267. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    It’s amazing you guys are down on Nunez, look at what he did offensively in limited at bats.

    I give up, Nunez sucks. lol.

    Oh and Nunez would be a better outfielder going forward, don’t say Jones name and think of it’s 10 years ago, the man can not move period.

  1268. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    A year ago Nunez was the starting SS and Jones was a washed up hack.

    Boy how things have changed.

  1269. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Nunez best OBP ever was .349 in AA

    No, he’s not better than anyone… especially Jones who only ever plays on the good half of his splits.

  1270. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    The Jones situation, and the Yankee 25 man roster in genera,l would be much easier if Montero was Not clogging the DH Slot. Montero needs a legitimate on-the-field position that he is at least adequate at. Right now, catcher aint that spot. To have a guy his age, with his talent, relagated to DH for at least 400 AB’s, stunts his growth as a complete player. I fear the Yanks are sowing the seeds of an offensive Joba Chamberlain.

  1271. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Nunez hit .265 .313 .385 .698????
    .277 .314 .429 .742 vs lefties

    Jones hit .247 .356 .495 .851.
    .286 .384 .540 .923 vs lefties.

    I like how Nunez, when he makes solid contact, the ball seems to jump off his bat but he isn’t a good hitter yet. Or even an above average one. He is an average bat at short stop only.

  1272. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    - ID -
    You did say, “CRASHING back to Earth”, in relation to Nova. You wanna take that back?

  1273. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Augury based on statistics is wonderful, but as any mutual fund will tell you, past results are not an indicator of future results. One uses them, but doesn’t put full faith in them, if one is wise.

  1274. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    SB Nation’s John Sickels’ preliminary list of 41 top Yankee prospects in no particular order.

    http://www.minorleagueball.com.....spect-list

  1275. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    So Nunez is not going to improve off his first year in the majors?

    You guys know best, Jones is the best right handed hitter in the game, he also should win the gold glove as we all know once you’re great at something, it never goes away.

    Jones had a great year off of lefties, going forward he is only going to get worse, he can’t move, and he can’t hit right handers.

    Nunez is underrated and hated by you guys, but that’s okay he makes a lot of errors at short stop, so I guess he deserves it.

  1276. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    I like Nunez because no pitcher intimidates the guy. You saw what he did late in the game to Shields.

  1277. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    donnybrook – You figure out a way to quantify “crashing back to earth” and I’ll take it back, until then… no. I stand by completely unprovable statement.

    You say a lot of things on here that turn out to be 100% wrong, when you start “taking them back”, let us know.

  1278. blake December 30th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    The Jonesy signing is fine……I don’t see is as a necessity really ……I would have rather seen them spend that money on Cespedes and take that risk……or better yet do both…

  1279. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Jason22,

    Got to disagree with you here. Jones knows how to play the OF, whether its LF, CF, or RF. It’s innate to him. Lest you forget, he’s a multiple GG OFer. You don’t forget those reads. Plus he’s a backup, a 4th OF. His value is in that, plus he hits lefties well.

    I like Nunez. He’s a SS who needs work on his footwork and his release. Let him master that, and learn 3B, before you add LF/OF to his job requirements. IMO, he can develop into a very good SS, and frankly I hope he does. But he’s NOT Andruw Jones. Not the old Andruw Jones, and not even the one we had last season.

    Good, safe signing by Cashman. Just like Garcia was. Just like Okijima was.

    Now who gets moved from the 40-man roster?

  1280. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    A year ago Nunez was the starting SS and Jones was a washed up hack.

    Boy how things have changed.

    ——-

    Solid Lohud fallacy.

  1281. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    So Nunez is not going to improve off his first year in the majors?

    You guys know best, Jones is the best right handed hitter in the game, he also should win the gold glove as we all know once you’re great at something, it never goes away.

    Jones had a great year off of lefties, going forward he is only going to get worse, he can’t move, and he can’t hit right handers.

    Nunez is underrated and hated by you guys, but that’s okay he makes a lot of errors at short stop, so I guess he deserves it.

    I thought Nunez would have been fine starting at SS for the Yankees if they didnt re-sign Jeter, and he actually would have matched/out produced Jeter if not for Jeters very good second half coming off the DL (which he deserves many kudos for). I think he is a good prospect, should have started the year in AAA to continue developing. He didn’t get as many ABs as I thought he should have nor chances in the field every day like he should have. I think he can improve but Jones is good at hitting LHP and was good 2 years ago and in his career and showed he was still good at it last year. I don’t think Nunez is going to out hit him vs LHP next season and certainly won’t out play him in the OF. Jones was slow but he still had some ability.

    What do you think Nunez is going to improve to next season?

  1282. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    tomingeorgia – Augury based on statistics is wonderful, but as any mutual fund will tell you, past results are not an indicator of future results. One uses them, but doesn’t put full faith in them, if one is wise.

    … and one would not completely ignore these numbers either. They are taken into account along with other factors and a prediction is made. This is how i operate, this is NOT how the rest of you operate. When you stop blaming the “numbers guy” for being the confused one, you’ll get it.

  1283. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    and one would not completely ignore these numbers either. They are taken into account along with other factors and a prediction is made.
    —————
    Isn’t that what I said?

  1284. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    How does signing Jones as a 4th outfielder preclude the Yanks from going after either Soler or Cespedes or both? On this team, both would start in the minors anyway.

  1285. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    It is exactly that DaSaint a safe signing, I would like Cashman to think outside the box sometimes, and think this guy had as good of a year as possible, and he is only going to get worse going forward

    I just don’t get the Nunez hate, for a rookie he was pretty good, and with him there is room for improvement.

    It’s a silly argument on my behalf, as we are talking about the last spots on the roster yes, but I believe Nunez has some potential to help the team.

    I hope they still sign the Japanese guy, everything I have read on him is positive, and I would like a guy like him on the team.

  1286. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    tomingeorgia – What makes you think i don’t do that, that you needed to bring it up? The only people around here ignoring half of the story and making predictions are the ones ignoring the stats and believe “what their eyes tell them”. The casual observer generally suffers from extreme confirmation bias.

  1287. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    “Solid Lohud fallacy.”

    Don’t make me go back. It is kind of curious that it was you who answered? I don’t remember posting LGY said…. Anyway no biggie.

  1288. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    ID,
    I think you don’t do that since I have never seen an argument from you here that does not rely on advanced statistics. Never have I seen an “eye factor” introduced, if not to disparage it.

  1289. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Yankees probably move Zoilo Almonte off the 40-man roster. Too bad Feliciano has to stay on it.

  1290. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    About Jones defense, sorry all, I do not see any ability anymore, I saw too many balls drop in front to the side everywhere, to me he is a below average guy out there now.

    Is he going to droop flyballs, well of course not, but he is a statue now.

    I believe Nunez has the ability to hit close to 290 or even 300 in the future call me crazy, but I do. Is he ever going to have a high on base avg, nope, but I think all his other #s will improve, and will he hit for as high a slugging percentage against left handers as Jones, no probably not, but he can do other things, like stolen bases, as well as doubles and triples.

    For a guy who no ones likes he did have 25 extra base hits as a rookie getting his feet wet, that’s not terrible.

  1291. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    don’t think they didn’t look around before they signed Andrew which right now is their best option for what they need him for….

  1292. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    - ID -
    So You want Me to quantify something You said? HAHAHAHAHAH. The meaning of “Crashing” is clear and you will be held accountable in spite of your woefull attempt at the Ali Shuffle.

  1293. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    No way the Yankees are taking Zoilo Amonte off the 40, the decision is a very easy one. Kevin Whelan is going to be released.

    Before Almonte, they would get rid of Maxwell as well, as he is a guy they could easily resign..

  1294. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    I could give 20 reasons (none of which are limited by my ability to understand numbers OR watch a baseball game) why a certain player may perform a certain way, and that gets countered around here with “I saw him play, he’ll be fine” or “You have no idea how good xxx is because you only look at numbers”. Somehow these 2 methods have come to be accepted on a level playing field with someone actually doing research and trying to develop an informed opinion.

  1295. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Tar December 30th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    “Solid Lohud fallacy.”

    Don’t make me go back. It is kind of curious that it was you who answered? I don’t remember posting LGY said…. Anyway no biggie.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Guilty conscience is the only answer.

  1296. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    donnybrook – What on earth are you talking about you crazy little man?

    Maybe you should read my post again, maybe the posts before it and try to garner a little context before you decide to run your mouth again.

  1297. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Understanding numbers and discounting others’ opinions does not add up to “all-seeing expertise”, which seems to be your claim.

  1298. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Oh I have a better game, lets see who can go back and find the last thing donnybrook predicted correctly… lol

  1299. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Don’t make me go back. It is kind of curious that it was you who answered? I don’t remember posting LGY said…. Anyway no biggie.

    ——–

    Just enjoy pointing out Lohud fallacies!!

    Feel free to go back though. Don’t recall anyone both pushing for Nunez as the starting SS and thinking Andruw was washed up.

  1300. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Among others, Kontos, Whelan, Ramiro Pena and Feliciano are the most likely players to be dropped from the 40 man rosters.

  1301. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    For a guy who no ones likes

    Why are you saying it like this? I don’t think its fair to compare Nunez to Andruw Jones, but to then conflate that to ‘no one likes Nunez’ is weird.

  1302. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Guilty conscience is the only answer.

    ——-

    Yay! The expert on the Lohud fallacy has weighed in!

  1303. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    tomingeorgia – You made that claim, not me. I simply try to explain what I think and why (the difference between me and everyone else… there is always a why). You decide what to do with that information.

  1304. yanks 27 December 30th, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    You can see Nova’s regression coming from a mile away
    Burnett is already useless
    Anyone believing in Hughes must also believe in Santa Clause.
    You can see Garcia’s regression from very good to serviceable/decent coming from a mile away

    But nah, Kuroda couldn’t help. $178 in 2014… Keep chuggin along!

  1305. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    “The casual observer generally suffers from extreme confirmation bias.”

    It’s december and we are on baseball blog how many casual observers are there posting right now.

    “I could give 20 reasons (none of which are limited by my ability to understand numbers OR watch a baseball game) why a certain player may perform a certain way, and that gets countered around here with “I saw him play, he’ll be fine” or “You have no idea how good xxx is because you only look at numbers”.

    Are you a paid scout? It doesn’t matter how many “reasons” you look up, the end result doesn’t equal a fact, it equals an opinion. And it’s the way you throw your “opinion” around that can be quite annoying. Just saying

  1306. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Jason22, I think you’re missing the point. No one is disputing that Nunez is talented, or can be an improved player over time. What many of us are saying is that for a 4th OF, and what’s needed on THIS team, is what Jones gives you: reliable defense, and a hitter that hit’s lefties very well and for power. It doesn’t negate the need for Nunez elsewhere (3B, SS, 2B).

    The next move may however tip Cashman’s hand as to what’s in the works. If they re-sign Chavez, then clearly they have no intention of keeping Chavez, and Nunez, and Nakajima.

  1307. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    - ID -
    Just look at your 4:20 post. YOU specifically ask ME to quantify YOUR “Crash” comment regarding Nova. I am still offering you the opportunity to take it back, but this offer does have a statute of limitations.

  1308. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    donnybrook – I have a better idea, I’m just going to ignore you.

  1309. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    I was kidding about Almonte. I agree that it could be Pena, but it could also be Dickerson. Don’t think Whelan or Kontos would be dropped. Thought that Feliciano would have to stay on the 40, even though he’s injured.

  1310. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    ID,
    Okay by me. Please yourself, and Happy New Year!

  1311. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    - ID -
    I guess you did go back and read that 4:20 comment. The toothpaste is outta the tube, and now you just wantta turn out the light. Notta chance.

  1312. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    It’s too bad that Irrelivant Discharge can’t marry himself. Never saw any love affair that he has with himself. I’m sure he’s trying to find a way to marry himself and get himself pregnant just to have his own little carbon copy.he’s perfect for himself. Nobody else could stomach him.

  1313. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    I totally get the point DaSaint, I just think Jones going forward is more and more diminishing returns, that’s all.

    Yes if they re-sign Chavez obviously, they will not sign Nakajima.

    Jerkface, maybe I am wrong, it just seems like I see a lot of Nunez hate here.

    I certainly don’t love him, but he had a impressive to me rookie season and I think there is more there.

    That’s my entire point about the two of them, one is in my opinion only going to get worse, the other has the potential to do more things to help the team win.

    Again I don’t hate Jones either, I just don’t see him having another season as he did last year.

    I hope I am wrong.

  1314. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    Tar – It’s december and we are on baseball blog how many casual observers are there posting right now.

    Anyone that is not being paid to be a professional scout based on their talent at… observing talent… is a “casual observer” in my book. I put myself and everyone else that posts here in that category with no qualms or second guessing.

    And it’s the way you throw your “opinion” around that can be quite annoying.

    No more annoying than having your opinion disparaged and mocked by someone that puts zero research and effort into forming one. You can feel free to ignore me and read the opinions around here that are posted with nothing to back them up. That is your choice.

  1315. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Among others, Kontos, Whelan, Ramiro Pena and Feliciano are the most likely players to be dropped from the 40 man rosters.

    —–

    Can’t say I’d have a problem with any of those guys being dropped.

  1316. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    I certainly don’t love him, but he had a impressive to me rookie season and I think there is more there.

    That’s my entire point about the two of them, one is in my opinion only going to get worse, the other has the potential to do more things to help the team win.

    Nunez, for now, is still on the team and will be helping them next year. Andruw Jones doesn’t stop that. Now if they sign Nakajima and keep him, that might make Nunez trade bait, but for now he is gonna be around.

    I don’t think Jones cuts into any area where Nunez was going to see significant time. They couldn’t go into next season with a backup OF that never really played OF before.

  1317. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    - Beret7 -
    Was wondering where you had been. You got ID down pat. Keep up the good work soldier.

  1318. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    GB7 – Yes, we all know you military types can’t handle someone that actually believes in what they say and is willing to back it up. Better to just blindly submit and follow the leader… right?

  1319. Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    Can Feliciano be dropped off the 40, isn’t he on the injured reserve, or did they take him off of there?

  1320. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    GF, at this time, or, at least until a multi-player deal can be made, it’s really the only options open. The other 36 players have a lot more value to the Yankees.

  1321. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Jed Hoyer had a son yesterday and named him….

    Beckett.

  1322. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Feliciano is going to get paid one way or the other, and he’s not going to be able to play in 2012, so they could just release him.

  1323. 108 stitches December 30th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    The Jones signing is further reason why development of OF’s in the farms system needs to be more of a priority.

  1324. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    ID,
    If that’s what you think of Special Forces, then the rest of your opinions are invalid to me. Do some research.

  1325. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    GB7 – Yes, we all know you military types can’t handle someone that actually believes in what they say and is willing to back it up. Better to just blindly submit and follow the leader… right?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I’d suggest you don’t even start on “military types”. You don’t know crap about the military. Perhaps you can figure out a 3 way marriage for you, jerk and LGY. You’re perfect matches for each other. at least when two get mad at each other, one will have a third partner to talk to.

  1326. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    So it might be down to Jays and Tigers for Mr. Garza. If Tigers get him – heck of a one two three four punch there w/ Verlander, Garza, Fister, and Max. If the Jays – sneaky nice one two w/ Romero and Garza. Interesting – interesting. . . .

  1327. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    “No more annoying than having your opinion disparaged and mocked by someone that puts zero research and effort into forming one.”

    But wait you are just a casual observer why should I believe you again?
    Do you keep log books to let me know how much research you put into forming your opinions?
    How can I tell if you or someone else did more research on player X?

    Get over yourself, and maybe I will pay more attention to what you have to say. Right now you are 75% annoying–I know I researched it.

  1328. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    ID’s on TILT. Trashing the Armed Forces is outta control stuff.

  1329. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    LMAO. No one’s accepting Ranaudo as the headlining pitching prospect in a trade and then turning around and demanding Banuelos or Betances.

    Ranaudo’s curve may improve consistency enough to be considered a plus pitch going forward, but he isn’t even on the same planet as those two, as his fastball is garden variety at best – what’s more, he’s not even in AA yet. If that’s the going rate – Ranaudo – well then, just LMAO at the stooges in here giving away Betances and Gary Sanchez… and shame on Cashman if he’s even THINKING about offering ANY of these guys for Matt Garza.

  1330. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    ID – you’re out of line and borderline disrespectful now.
    People who ‘back it up’ with their lives deserve respect.

    Give it a rest. There, I said it nicely.

  1331. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    donnybrook could be a women who used to post here awhile back before disappearing suddenly……..I think the resigning of Andruw Jones is a good smart move….

  1332. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Birth of Hoyer’s child had slowed things down.
    1 hour ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Sources: #Yankees are OUT on Matt Garza. Seemingly down to #BlueJays and #Tigers
    2 hours ago

  1333. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Someone who has seen and talked to scouts about Andujar – can you give me your take – thanks.

  1334. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    - PAT M. -
    Case of mistaken indentity. Not me.

    How much $$$ did the Yanks shell out for Jones?

  1335. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    It’s comical that some here resent people because they satisfy their curiosity firsthand and go watch Yankee prospects, and then, OMG, have the temerity to want to actually share it with …other Yankee fans…imagine…

  1336. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    There were very few on here last year, Pat M. being the only one I remember clearly that was calling the Jones signing a good deal. I certainly wasn’t. Maybe I would have been more on board if I had known that his mobility in the field and at bat could be improved by draining his knee every two months. He had it done in April and became a completely different player. As far as Nunez goes, there aren’t many rookies that can bounce around the infield and play sporatically and be “the perfect player”. Give him his own position, or, at least a little time to make the adjustment before trashing him. He may have cost a win or two last year on defense, but he more than helped win a few more with his bat and base running skills and speed.

  1337. Carlo December 30th, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Tweeting the yankees are out on a potential trade candidate seems like the easiest way to break news without talking to anyone with little risk of being proven wrong.

  1338. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Jason22 December 30th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
    I totally get the point DaSaint, I just think Jones going forward is more and more diminishing returns, that’s all.
    ////

    Jason, I’ll say this for Jones: he still gets marvelous jumps out there. He’s still a very good outfielder. Don’t be fooled by the dimished speed. He knows what he’s doing.

  1339. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    - PRUFROCK -
    I agree with watching prospects firsthand, and appreciate hearing your eyeball appraisals. Thanks, and keep it up.

  1340. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    So it might be down to Jays and Tigers for Mr. Garza. If Tigers get him – heck of a one two three four punch there w/ Verlander, Garza, Fister, and Max. If the Jays – sneaky nice one two w/ Romero and Garza. Interesting – interesting. . . .

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    If Detroit were to pull this off, they would have a heack of a rotation. But I’m sure Theo would ask for Max.

  1341. J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
    - PRUFROCK -
    I agree with watching prospects firsthand, and appreciate hearing your eyeball appraisals. Thanks, and keep it up.
    ///

    Thanks, Donnybrook. I too really look forward to hearing other folks who get to games (Yankeefem, Big Al, Villa, Ysguy, GB7, et al) give us their take on the kids. Nobody’s pretending to be a “scout”, for heaven’s sake. Just sharing what we see.

    Off to supper.

  1342. DaSaint007 December 30th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Correction: I mean Hoyer would ask for Max.
    Hoyer, not Theo…yeah, right.

  1343. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Josh Norris’ interview with Manny Banuelos

    http://minormatterstrenton.blo.....11_30.html

  1344. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 30th, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    Andruw Jones – YAY!!!!!

  1345. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Mohegan Sun…giving out free snow shovels on New Years Eve….why might this be a bad idea

  1346. mick December 30th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Unless you are a pro scout or possess more baseball knowledge than the average guy why is it that some think because they have seen a prospect 1st hand that they are can’t miss.
    Heck, scouts have erred in that regard more often than not but some here think that since they have been privy to seeing these prospects they are experts and know better.

  1347. blake December 30th, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    I don’t know how accurate those tweets are…….but if it is absolutely going to require Banuelos for Garza then I hope Cash does bow out.

  1348. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Nobody’s pretending to be a “scout”, for heaven’s sake. Just sharing what we see.

    **********

    Prefer scouts – always prefer a professional opinion

  1349. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    The best moves, and the cheapest\$$$ are the ones made at the July 31 Deadline. My guess is Hal is gonna OK any tweaks or major moves as needed then. The Yanks will also fill holes by trading mid-level prospects for Rent-A- Players. The payroll will continue to influence the 25 Man Roster till the Yanks get within striking distance of that $189 Mill.

  1350. mick December 30th, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    This place should not be a court where the baseball intelligencia come to profess how much more knowledgeable they are than the other. Oh! I said this 5 years ago so I am so much smarter than you, who cares!

    Oh! I can back this up with stats, I am Scientist!

    Why do I get the feeling the Scientist would get his arse kicked in a pick up, choose em up game of ball?

    Or even APBA or Stratamatic, for that matter?

  1351. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
    It’s comical that some here resent people because they satisfy their curiosity firsthand and go watch Yankee prospects, and then, OMG, have the temerity to want to actually share it with …other Yankee fans…imagine…

    **********

    It is also comical that some people get up in arms if certain prospects are even mentioned in trades b/c these casual observers went to some games. . . give me the scouts pov – the individuals who first recognize the talent in the first place. . . .

  1352. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    I have Always putta lotta stock in Anything that Scout Finch says.The apple didn’t fall far from the tree here.

  1353. mick December 30th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    give me the scouts pov – the individuals who first recognize the talent in the first place. . . .
    ===========================
    and even they are not infallible but casual observers know better?
    it takes a psychic to see into one’s heart or head,
    why didn’t they know about proven talent like ed whitson, kevin brown, igawa or aj burnett or others ?

  1354. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    It’s usually good to hear what scouts think about certain ballplayers but that profession is anything but an exact science.

    Most seem to believe that Montero can’t be a major league catcher. I believe they are wrong considering guys like Posada and Piazza were able to do it for a number of years.

    Montero doesn’t have to be spectacular behind the plate. I’d be thrilled with average (and so would the Yanks).

  1355. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Pat M., this is hard to deal with but, Sandy Koufax is 76 years old today. Not possible, nor is the fact that he’s been retired for 45 years. Seems like only yesterday I was hating him for the 15 WS strikeouts in ’63.

  1356. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock December 30th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
    It’s comical that some here resent people because they satisfy their curiosity firsthand and go watch Yankee prospects, and then, OMG, have the temerity to want to actually share it with …other Yankee fans…imagine…

    **********

    It is also comical that some people get up in arms if certain prospects are even mentioned in trades b/c these casual observers went to some games. . . give me the scouts pov – the individuals who first recognize the talent in the first place. . . .

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Does this mean that your views and observations are totally without merit and therefore useless? If so, why post them?

  1357. mick December 30th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Montero is here for his bat #1.
    What is the urgency to catch him everyday?
    esp when you have a competent catcher from whom he can learn.

  1358. DONNYBROOK December 30th, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Scouts may know baseball talent when they see it, but those guys have absolutely NO fashion sense what-so-ever. Those guys are sore thumbs sitting behind the plate.

  1359. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    mick December 30th, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    Montero is here for his bat #1.
    What is the urgency to catch him everyday?
    esp when you have a competent catcher from whom he can learn.

    ———

    I didn’t say Montero needs to be an everyday catcher tomorrow.

    Just as long as he becomes their long term option behind the plate whenever he’s ready for it.

  1360. Carlo December 30th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Every day I get more and more confused as to how we didn’t find $15 mm a year for the next 5 years to sign the guy who finished 6th in the al cy younf voting last year to be our #2 starter. The scary thing for me is that other than CC, none of our other starters would be in the top 4 in anaheims rotation.

  1361. austinmac December 30th, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    GB,

    I likewise hated Koufax after theb1963 Series, but he was fabulous to watch. He’s the most dominant pitcher I have ever seen. Unhittable.

  1362. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    The yanks 2012 season is doomed while Cashman sits on his hands again. boston has re-signed Rich Hill.

  1363. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Montero can’t catch….better learn how to play RF

  1364. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Mac, Koufax was hated for about a week. I had the great fortune to was the first time I’d heard both hitter and pitcher grunt at the same time. This was a team that had Williams, Banks and santo in order and it was like watching Daniel Almonte pitching against Little Leaguers in his perfecto. seriously, they were totally helpless in those games. If they didn’t lock up on that big curve, they looked like watching tapes of the 2011 version of Adam Dunn running on a loop.

  1365. BD (Boston Dave) December 30th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    “The yanks 2012 season is doomed while Cashman sits on his hands again. boston has re-signed Rich Hill.”

    ————

    obviously not a big deal and he won’t be ready until the 2nd half of the season if at all, but I secretly was hoping the Yanks would have taken a look at him.

    he did pitch well as a lefty reliever last season before getting hurt.

  1366. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Daniel Almonte pitching against Little Leaguers……………he was 14 years old pitching against 11 & 12 year olds

  1367. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    joeman December 30th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Montero can’t catch….better learn how to play RF

    ————

    So, in your professional opinion, Montero can’t catch but he’s going to have the agility to play RF?

    Don’t quit your day job.

  1368. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    After arb cases the Yankees will be within striking distance of 189M, except on the wrong side.

    Jones got 2M same as last year+incentives

  1369. JetesMagetes December 30th, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    This moron is trying to claim Cano is the most overrated player in baseball. Please join me in calling him an idiot.

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....n-baseball

  1370. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    joeman December 30th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Montero can’t catch….better learn how to play RF

    ————

    So, in your professional opinion, Montero can’t catch but he’s going to have the agility to play RF?

    Don’t quit your day job.
    ———————————————————-
    work days and nights

  1371. Villa Nova-Ya December 30th, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    If a person is able to actually see a minor league game or two or three in person, it would become evident that you can spot special talent, even if you’re not a scout, even if you can’t quantify it or put a ceiling on it.

    There are a few people on this forum who actually see the Yankees kids play ON A REGULAR BASIS (I am not one of them, can’t see that many games). I take their opinions quite seriously.

    And it’s really nice to have “friendly eyes” on our “kids,” in addition to the scouts whose opinions are reported.

  1372. exiledintampa December 30th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Always amazed Koufax only pitched till age 31. he was a boyhood idol of mine even though i liked Whitey more for being a Yankee lefty.

  1373. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    They don’t make starters like Koufax Marichal Spahn Gibson,et al. Anymore
    Now we have 6inning starters, middle relievers, LOOGYs, setup relievers and closers
    :)

  1374. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    Trader,

    After 2013, the Yanks lose Swisher’s, Rivera’s, Burnett’s, Soriano’s contracts at least. That’s nearly $50 mil. Add in raises, additions and renewed contracts like Cano’s and that would be about a $25 mil reduction. Just a rough figure of course.

  1375. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    This moron is trying to claim Cano is the most overrated player in baseball. Please join me in calling him an idiot.

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti…..n-baseball

    Call him a moron here, bleacherreport is a high school level publication that bases its rewards off ‘page views’ so clicking this link to read some drivel about cano only helps the author. Infact, I would not be surprised if the author is the one posting this.

  1376. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    GB…..I’ve told this story before but I remember so vividly going to Game 1 of the 63 Series with my Pop and sitting there watching Sandy carve up one of the great lineups in baseball history……His fastball would rise and of course there was the hook that Mantle and Maris would state that they could here the seams as the baseball spun by them……I would always make the trek to Shea to see him pitch and I mean pitch vs. the Mets….I’d go out to Flushing to see Mays and Banks and Aaron, however it was Sandy Koufax that was poetry in motion to watch……He was by far the greatest who ever toed the rubber…..Think Mariano Rivera for 9 innings…..Used to see him at Vero Beach working with the pitchers on the pitchers field and he’d just cut it loose ……2 and 2 to Harvey Khuenn….Scully always compares Sandy’s after game to what Mantle had to endure except Koufax couldn’t lift his arm the next day but would never miss his turn two days later……

  1377. exiledintampa December 30th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    stopped reading bleacherreport a long time ago. national inquirer is more news worthy.

  1378. mick December 30th, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    I didn’t say Montero needs to be an everyday catcher tomorrow.
    =========================================
    GF- I know you didn’t. Was referring to comments like these:

    Montero can’t catch….better learn how to play RF
    =====================================
    If he’s serious with his pithy observations, based on nothing he knows, be glad he wasn’t GM when Piazza and Posada came up.

  1379. RhapsodyInBlue December 30th, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Pat M.

    Koufax was as dominant in the 63 series as any pitcher I have ever seen.

    It was scary.

  1380. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    “And it’s really nice to have “friendly eyes” on our “kids,” in addition to the scouts whose opinions are reported.”

    Villa

    100% agree. I feel lucky to be able to read so many different first hand accounts of the minors. It’s one of the things I like the most about this blog. Thanks to all of you who contribute that way.

  1381. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    trader, I only saw herb score on TV once before the accident, but, I was too young to realize what he really was, other than nasty and shutting down the Yanks. From what my grandfather said, he was the clone of Koufax. I saw him after the accident live and even as a 10 year old, you could see him flinch after every pitch. As big a tragedy as Tony Conigliaro’s. I did see sudden Sam and Dick Raditz pitch, and not only were they big, they were good. Lord, what fastballs and McDowell had that same big overhand curve as Koufax. Loved watching the big power pitchers you named as well as jim Bunning, but, really loved watching the regular humans like Whitey Ford and Bily Pierce. Don’t remember much about the prime years of Robin Roberts but my grandfather said his fastball was as good as he had seen.

  1382. RadioKev December 30th, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    I like the Jones signing. I don’t understand how anyone could be upset over it. They do need to figure out some long term solutions out there, but Jones is a fair fourth outfielder considering we’re lefty dominated.

  1383. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Joeman decided in 2009 that Montero couldn’t be a big league catcher, which was long before he could even pick Montero out of a lineup.

  1384. mick December 30th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    GF-agreed.
    It’s one thing to shoot from the hip but some insist on poop shooting.

  1385. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Pat M., the idea that a fastball can rise is a fallacy. All of the “experts” said so. I guess they forgot to ask the know-nothings that had to hit that damned thing. Most teams were finished the second that Alston put his name on the scorecard. A pitcher with a Ryan fastball, a Blyleven curve and a Whitey Ford control. A freak of nature. Just think of how good he could have been if he had development time in the minors, and of course it would have helped if he had actually liked baseball.

  1386. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    Vince Scully says that Koufax would pitch BP in Vero Beach and at the age of 55 could still bring it in the high 80′s with upward movement…….Take Ron Guidry’s amazing 1978 season and that was pretty much what Sandy Koufax did from 1962 thru 1966….Hell he pitched Gane 7 vs. the heavy hitting Minn. Twins with just a fastball on 2 days rest to wrap up the 65 World Series…….He was The Babe Ruth of pitching…Wonder how many Triple crowns Sandy won ???

  1387. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    GB-

    Happy and Healthy New Year.

    At the moment I believe the Yankees will have A-Rod, Tex, CC and Jeter, if he picks up his 8M player option, under contract for the start of the 2014 season. When I last looked that amounted to around 78M, plus any 6M incentive A-Rod reaches. Cano and Granderson if both signed could be what 35-37M? That’s in the neighborhood of 115M for those 6 players. Goal for 2014 is to be under 189M to get those incentives thru the new CBA.

    For this coming season the Yankees are somewhere near, I believe, 178M[this seasons luxury threshold] before the arb cases that was rumored to amount to another 17M or so.

    I saw Koufax, arrived one inning late, after he gave up 2 hits, against the Pirates, and watched him no-hit them the rest of the game. No closers needed for him.
    Complete game WS wins on 2-3 days rest.

    Best lefty pitcher, in his prime, ever.

  1388. Yankee Trader December 30th, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    He was The Babe Ruth of pitching…Wonder how many Triple crowns Sandy won ???
    —————————
    Babe Ruth was a great pitcher himself! 94 wins and a ERA of 2.28! :)

  1389. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Pat M., the idea that a fastball can rise is a fallacy. All of the “experts” said so. I guess they forgot to ask the know-nothings that had to hit that damned thing.

    Oh yea, just ask those baseball players about how physics is bunk! Fastballs can’t rise, but players can IMAGINE they are rising due to how the human brain works.

  1390. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    Pat,

    I think Koufax won 3 in a four year span. Have to check, but, I think that was the number. He would have won it in 1964 if he hadn’t missed time with an arm injury.

  1391. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    just waiting for dinner, and thought i’d check in. nice to see things are going as expected here.

    has boston received their 2012 trophy, yet? they can put it right next to their 2011 version.

  1392. jacksquat December 30th, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    A pitch can not rise unless it is initially thrown with an “upwards” trajectory (“submarine” or “underhanded” pitcher). Otherwise it has been proven by physics and actual measurement that the backspin of a baseball (thrown by a human) can not cause it to overcome gravity and “rise”. The supposed “rising fastball” merely drops a little less than more “normal” fastballs, thus causing the hitter to swing under it, as he is more used to the baseball having dropped more by the time it reaches the hitting zone.

  1393. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    1500 hitters with the same mirage? What are the odds?

  1394. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    Didn’t think gravity would have any effect on a 95 mph fastball thrown fro 60 feet….You guys should stick to slow pitch softball…….You know not what you speak off, no such thing as a rising fastball, yeah right…

  1395. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Didn’t think gravity would have any effect on a 95 mph fastball thrown fro 60 feet….You guys should stick to slow pitch softball…….You know not what you speak off, no such thing as a rising fastball, yeah right…

    Gravity is a constant, it effects everything all the time no matter how long a flight time is involved.

    Here is a convenient video for you since you apparently skipped physics class at sand lot u. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1VClnk3l-k

  1396. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    Of course its not just gravity which makes it impossible for a fastball to rise.

  1397. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Trader, I had only made a very rough estimate based on the end of the ’13 season payroll for 2014. Should be interesting what changes are made by the. Gotta believe that unless a bigger name becomes available, Swidher will still be a Yankee. Probably the one real unknown.

  1398. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Jerkface….You better get some hitting lessons as you and some of your buddies in that b.s. film clip clearly show……Not buying it….And UCLA is hardly sandlot u, but then again I did spend and even earned money for awhile wearing spikes….No time for your bull right now, time to get my laps in while the sun sets……As I stated Face, get your swing fix before the slow pitch kegger leagues start….

  1399. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    No time for your bull right now

    Oh yea, this PHYSICS is such BS! Who came up with this stuff? I bet they were real morons and didn’t even know how to hit a curve ball! Good thing you wasted a lot of money at UCLA not learning physics, wouldn’t want to validate those thinker types.

  1400. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Pat M, you better worry about your own swing, since last I checked you didn’t make a big enough impact in your ‘playing days’ to get access to the MLB mandated physics lessons.

  1401. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    somebody’s knickers are in a twist……..

  1402. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    somebody’s knickers are in a twist……..

    Well knowing them they’re long stockings. Some people get their anecdotes about ‘that rising fastball!’ and all they got is personal insults about softball and running off, literally! Because thats all they got :(

  1403. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    JF, a llttle study of ballistics would show an object in flight CAN rise.

  1404. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    it’s nice to see this board isn’t the only one that has idiots making stupid trades and remarks, Comments from the Tiger board od a trade proposal for Garza. I swear Bret, Chip and Spyderboy must be on every baseball board that exists…using different SN. here’s the Propsal and the response,

    “Nelson 10 comments Jacob turner hicks raburn and alvila for garza and a minor leaguer”

    The response from InLeylandWeTrust 1: “Are you incapable of rational thought? Honestly every time I see that you made a post, I look to see if its dumber than the last…”
    Reply 23 minutes ago in reply to Nelson 0 Like
    .

  1405. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    JF, a llttle study of ballistics would show an object in flight CAN rise.

    Further study would show that with a fastball its not possible.

  1406. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Aaron Laffey is now the new stud lefty in the blue Jays rotation.

  1407. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    GB – hey, they’re young (i think). they’re trying to come up with innovative and creative stuff. can’t fault them for trying. i don’t even mind folks being defensive. it’s the arrogance, and substituting snappy answers for legitimate thought that i find tiresome. hey, if i want that i can just recall when my own son was a teenager ;)

    how have you been? it’s an abnormally warm winter so far up in nyc area, not that i’m complaining. you don’t have to shovel warm.

  1408. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Joeman decided in 2009 that Montero couldn’t be a big league catcher

    —————————————–
    guess time will tell

  1409. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    Evening, Joe.

    Hope you and Mrs In Long Island are preparing for a great New Year ahead. Best wishes to the two of you. Hopefully, your weather stays mild up there after some brutal past winters. After all, according to the Mayans and Bill James, this is the last New Year the world will ever see.

    The post I made from the Detroit board was great, though. His snark would be perfect for here. At least after next december, I won;t have to concern myself with the youth of the world taking over. Won’t be anything left.

  1410. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    will see how much Montero catches this year when they bring two other catchers plus him north with the big club…..

  1411. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    OOOps, Joe has divorced Mrs. In Long Island and now married to Mrs. From Long Island.

  1412. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    Well, the good thing about the world ending is that I won’t have to worry about my retirement accounts anymore. Or, how the Boston is winning all the offseason trophies.

  1413. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    Montero will not come north with the big club as the #2 catcher, so the question is how will he ever get better at his trade

  1414. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    LMAO. Just think of all of that interest that will accrue on those accounts that you will have in your next life, Joe. and no taxes to worry about for a few million years.

  1415. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 8:37 pm

    I seem to recall Posada not getting the starting catcher reigns until 1998 – only about three years after his ’95 debut.

    They’ll take it slow with Montero – as they should. But, he’s also going to be the primary DH so of course they’ll carry three catchers. They aren’t going to use both catchers in the same lineup everyday.

    Who knows. Maybe Montero will catch 40 games this season. It’s not like Cervelli isn’t replaceable.

  1416. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    PeteAbe has not taken three consecutive days off this year .

    Just sayinG .

  1417. Red Robin December 30th, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    Maybe that why he’s raking in the big bucks now .

  1418. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    It’s not possible for a fastball to rise.

    Basic physics people.

  1419. mick December 30th, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    The bickering here is childish, mindless and a waste of time.
    Time for some to get a life…

  1420. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 8:49 pm

    GF,

    In one of the articles yesterday/this morning, Cashman and Levine said if Montero captures the DH slot, NY will carry 3 catchers north. Whether is Cervelli or Romine, though, I think it’s Cervelli, to give Romine some AAA grow time. Cervelli is hardly irreplaceable, but, as a backup, not brutal. Ok defense and ok bat. Not a lot of bat or power, but seems to have a knack for getting run producing hits. They won’t take any chances on losing a bat to be wasted by a pitcher. Wins are going to close in the East this year.

  1421. Tar December 30th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    “Further study would show that with a fastball its not possible.”

    Further and further study will show that some fastballs, appear to the hitter as rising because they drop less. Which means the batter is more likely to swing under the ball.

    So what’s worse the appearance of ball rising which makes the batter swing under it, or the ball actually rising making the batter swing under it. Same outcome – different terminology. Perhaps you prefer the term a drop less fastball.

    I will admit to laughing at Sand Lot U though.

  1422. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    It’s also impossible for a curve ball to curve. Physics.

  1423. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    When you throw overhand the ball travels in a downward plane.

    You honestly think it’s possible for a baseball to go down out of your hand and then rise up on the way to the plate?

  1424. joeman December 30th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Minka Kelly and Derek Jeter are back on!

    Life & Style can exclusively reveal that New York Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter and Friday Night Lights beauty Minka Kelly are spending the holidays together in Paris.

    The couple had dated for three years before calling it quits in August, but they were seen strolling around the prestigious Musée d’Orsay in Paris on Dec. 29.

    “They had a guide taking them around on the fifth floor, and they were looking at Monet and the works of other French impressionists,” Pepperdine University student Jaime Olaez, who saw the couple at the art museum, tells Life & Style. “They went to all the different floors; they looked at Van Gogh. Derek was very low-key and was wearing a black-and-gray sweater. Minka looked very pretty. She was wearing white jeans, a brown jacket and boots.”

    The duo were joined by two pals.

    “The funniest part was seeing tourists walk by wearing New York Yankees hats on,” Olaez tells Life & Style. “And some people didn’t even notice them!”

    According to Twitter users, Minka was also spotted in the lobby of the Pont Royal hotel, in Paris, on Dec. 27.

    Minka and Derek were expected to get engaged until their rep confirmed on
    Aug. 26 that the two had broken up. Minka was a regular at Yankees games and was often spotted with Derek’s parents in the family suite.

    Maybe 2012 will bring their relationship better luck!

  1425. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    GB,

    Cervelli had a brutal 2010 season. His bat has never been anything special but his defense really took a dive that year.

    But he did bounce back last season and did seem to get big hits when the team needed it. I’m not sure if the real Cervelli is closer to the 2009 or 2011 version or the 2010 version.

    Either way, there’s no doubt Cervelli comes north with the team in April and Romine will be sent to Scranton unless someone goes down.

    Hey, as long as Gustavo Molina doesn’t come north with the team, I’ll be fine with that.

    Ugh. That dude had no business playing on a major league roster last April.

  1426. Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    Perhaps Minka Kelly gave back the autographed ball and wanted his bat instead.

  1427. ron December 30th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    When nunez cracks a .700 ops or hits a hr more than once every 60 ab,we’ll talk.

    Til he proves otherwise,he is a bench player.

  1428. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    Air currents on a fastball or a knuckleball affects baseballs. It depends on whether a pitcher knows how to use those currents. Koufax was nobody’s dummy. He studied everything. Ryan isn’t the country hick that people think he is. There are many others. Knuckle ballers knew their best pitch came with the wind blowing out. Can’t think of many hitters that agree with the so-called “experts”. Of coursem they don’t have the expertise and knowledge of all thing life that the three wizards on here have.

  1429. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Koufax and Ryan used air currents to invalidate the laws of physics.

    Yikes.

  1430. tomingeorgia December 30th, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    How many batters swung under fastballs from those two?

  1431. Vineyard Yankee December 30th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Giuseppe Franco December 30th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    ‘Perhaps Minka Kelly gave back the autographed ball and wanted his bat instead’.

    ===================

    Now that was funny ! ! ! ! ! :lol:

  1432. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

    1. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cisco came north with the team, and Romine to the travelin’ SWB team, as GF suggested. The only things that could stop that are his health (concussion issue) or his being included in a trade. I think that a young catcher like him has some real trade value.

    2. mrs. joe and I are pleased that Derek and Minka are back together. His parents liking her counts for a lot. I find it interesting that they’ve toured the Musee d’Orsay, as mrs. joe, the artistic one, loved it, because of the impressionists. just missed them by 14 months……

  1433. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    couldn’t care less who derrek is dating (or who he is schtupping, apparently thats not always the same person). i wouldn’t know minka kelley if she came into my restaurant wearing a name badge. when the leave the stadium my interest ends.

  1434. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    Ys Guy – would you rather discuss PEDs… :)

  1435. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    joe, no i’m adding to the comments for fun, im working on being the 1500th comment on this post…

  1436. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    LGY December 30th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
    Koufax and Ryan used air currents to invalidate the laws of physics.

    Yikes.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Typically stupid assed remark from you. Seaver, Ryan, Koufax all through a lot of letter high fastballs….you know, the ones that are released on the same plane as the batter’s letters/shoulders….not down hill. They finished off the mound. Go tell those hitters that they aren’t as smart as you, that the’re too stupid to know what you know. You can pick up your teeth later…or go see Dr. Jim Longborg or Dr. Steve Arlin. They’re dentists that know something about pitching. Time your you to go and punk out with your other two little buddies.

  1437. Vineyard Yankee December 30th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    Will the Yanks ever have faith in Montero behind the plate ? Disappointing that almost everything is negative about the young man’s defensive skills. I would like to think that Pena and Girardi will be of tremendous help in his development this year.

  1438. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
    1. I wouldn’t be surprised if Cisco came north with the team, and Romine to the travelin’ SWB team, as GF suggested. The only things that could stop that are his health (concussion issue) or his being included in a trade. I think that a young catcher like him has some real trade value.

    2. mrs. joe and I are pleased that Derek and Minka are back together. His parents liking her counts for a lot. I find it interesting that they’ve toured the Musee d’Orsay, as mrs. joe, the artistic one, loved it, because of the impressionists. just missed them by 14 months……

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I prefer the artistic talents of the can-can dancers because I have culture.

  1439. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    You can’t possibly be this ignorant.

    It has to be an act. I really hope it is.

  1440. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    @
    @2ADub Tigers in on Garza
    1 hour ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    @
    @redfawn Tigers serious interest in Garza
    1 hour ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    As I reported all that, days ago.
    2 hours ago

    jonmorosi Jon Morosi
    by MLBInsideNews
    #Tigers have joined pursuit of Matt Garza. Story with @Ken_Rosenthal at FOXSports.com: bit.ly/tf9hCS #Yankees #RedSox #Cubs
    3 hours ago

    ******

    Have to say this guy does know some info – hopefully Tigers have to pay w/ Turner and more. . . .

  1441. Joe from Long Island December 30th, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    you know, GB, there’s a few lines that I could come up with, right now, but I’d like to still be able to occasionally post here.

    almost 1500 posts on this thread. thank goodness the journal news takes this enterprise so seriously.

    even though it’s saturday, i’ve got to go in tomorrow. so, have a good night, all. 54 days ’till st. it can’t get here fast enough.

  1442. GreenBeret7 December 30th, 2011 at 10:09 pm

    joe, best wishes to you and the Mrs on a safe, great and happy New year.

  1443. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 10:12 pm

    You can’t physically throw a fastball overhand in a straight trajectory.

    Every single fastball moves in a downward plane. You can’t keep it straight and you can’t make it rise.

    The only thing a pitcher can do is manipulate the degree to which it travels downward.

  1444. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    LGY – Don’t confuse him with confusing things, like reality.

  1445. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1VClnk3l-k

    lol, facts.

  1446. blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    @danconnollysun
    Dan Connolly
    When Scott Boras and Prince Fielder did their ownership tour this month, they were in “Balt-Wash area” but did not meet w Peter Angelos.
    5 hours ago via web

    If the Nats signed Fielder….how far behind Philly would they be on paper? Their rotation obviously wouldn’t be as good….but that front 3 should be pretty solid with good health and I might like their lineup and bullpen better…….what if Harper came up and made an impact in the 2nd half?

  1447. blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Would the Tigers give up Jacob Turner for Garza? I tell ya….Verlander, Garza, Scherzer, Fister, Porcello would be about as good as anybody in baseball……very right handed….but very solid

  1448. blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    and that would make really 3 super staffs in the American league….Angels, Rays, Tigers.

  1449. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    LGY…..Let me address both you and Jerkface on this subject….My Freshman year I studied Architectural Engineering at Manhattan College as well as playing on their sandlot…Granted the curriculum was well beyond my skill set so once I received a high draft lottery number it was time to try baseball as a career….This leads me to this point about being able to throw a baseball that indeed rises because I had a habit of doing so on throws to fisrtbase……It was all about not staying on top at the release point which as a result led to throws that in effect had backspin….This led to many an E-6 as my throws sailed into the seats……Backspin vs. topspin it really is quite simple especially from 60 feet away at 95 mph…

  1450. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    In order for a baseball to rise, it would have to generate more lift than the weight of the baseball. You would have to throw the ball about… 200mph for that to happen, if not harder.

  1451. Shame Spencer December 30th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:32 pm

    and that would make really 3 super staffs in the American league….Angels, Rays, Tigers.

    ————————

    Ugh.. don’t like that at all.

    That being said, at the end of the day I think next seasons going to come down to either Nova not regressing or Hughes at least returning to being a solid #4 option.

    Maybe it ends up coming down to guys like Noesi, Phelps, Warren, and/or Mitchell and what they can put together in 10-15 games if needed because of injuries or ineffectiveness.

  1452. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    Pat

    You are not making the ball rise as in a “rising fastball”. You are simply throwing it in an upward trajectory.

  1453. BD (Boston Dave) December 30th, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    re: baseball rising

    Once this is finally settled – will the party that is incorrect apologize? is there a bet involved?

    that’s all i wanna know :)

    Nick in SF can set the odds/stakes

  1454. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    If someone wants to bet they can throw a rising fastball I will wager literally any number you name.

  1455. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    a ball can’t rise, its simple physics. but it can seem to rise because our eyes anticipate the rate at which the ball should drop and when it doesn’t it seems to rise. that’s all it takes for hitters, spectators or first basemen to miss and think the ball rose.

  1456. BD (Boston Dave) December 30th, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    “and that would make really 3 super staffs in the American league….Angels, Rays, Tigers.”

    ————-

    Yanks just gotta make the playoffs.

    They showed they could get to Verlander (until the bullpen, Soriano to be exact, blew it) and they can beat anyone else on those staffs.

    make the playoffs and cross your fingers and hope for some timely hitting

  1457. Shame Spencer December 30th, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    This has been a really amusing debate to read lol I realize its largely unintentional but you guys have had me laughing out loud… a Google search tells me to side with ID and LGY though…

  1458. Stoneburner December 30th, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) December 30th, 2011 at 10:47 pm
    “and that would make really 3 super staffs in the American league….Angels, Rays, Tigers.”

    ————-

    Yanks just gotta make the playoffs.

    They showed they could get to Verlander (until the bullpen, Soriano to be exact, blew it) and they can beat anyone else on those staffs.

    make the playoffs and cross your fingers and hope for some timely hitting

    *********

    I count Max, Matt Moore, 2011 Shields, and Jared Weaver having given us problems and in some instances outright dominating us. In the next tier – Haren can be difficult. We did hit Hellickson – so jury still out – Santana has on and off given us fits dating back to 2005 ALDS – that leaves Ricky P, Wade Davis, Neimann, Wilson, and whoever the Angels find as their no. 5 starter.

    Those are tough staffs with better overall starters than us – but you are right – anything can happen in the postseason.

  1459. LGY December 30th, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    Alex Rodriguez morphing into a centaur is more realistic than the ability to throw a rising fastball.

  1460. Ys Guy December 30th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    “Alex Rodriguez morphing into a centaur is more realistic than the ability to throw a rising fastball.”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    …a third baseman can dream can’t he?

  1461. blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    LGY December 30th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
    If someone wants to bet they can throw a rising fastball I will wager literally any number you name.

    You didn’t specify that it had to be a baseball I was throwing so I’ll take that bet and throw a wiffle ball ;)

    I don’t want to get in on this because I see both sides…..I’ve experienced throws from SS sail as Pat M describes and appear to rise and ive tried to hit fastballs from pitchers that also seem to rise, the answer is that physics say that the ball can’t actually go up after being released…..however the perception to the hitter is that it does and thats all that matters…….so no it doesn’t technically “rise” …..but the effect is like it does.

  1462. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Would he get new knees during the morphing process?

  1463. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 11:00 pm

    Not going to get into a pissing match over this, but for a short distance I’ve seen throws rise….

  1464. blake December 30th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
    Not going to get into a pissing match over this, but for a short distance I’ve seen throws rise….

    I know what you mean…..ive seen the same thing…..but does it appear to rise or actually rise? really doesn’t matter as the effect is all thats important.

  1465. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    I agree with the idea that a hitter perceives a ball to rise, because of how the brain works. I disagree with anyone suggesting the ball actually rises.

  1466. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    Not going to get into a pissing match over this, but for a short distance I’ve seen throws rise….

    Because you threw it up, or someone else threw it up. You didn’t throw a pitch on a 0 degree trajectory that rose above it.

    Did an errant tornado erupt under the ball?

  1467. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    LGY & Blake’s posts do make sense….

  1468. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    Face…I have to admit that you have a smugness about you that probably led to many an ass whipping on the playground when you were a kid……

  1469. blake December 30th, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    There was a myth busters episode about this very topic once…..I believe they determined that even the hardest throwers in baseball could only muster about half of the Magnus forces through backspin that would be required to create enough “lift” to overcome the weight of the ball.

  1470. blake December 30th, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    But as I said….all that really matters in a baseball sense is that it seems like the ball rises to the hitter…..whether it actually does or not is irrelevant with regards to the game

  1471. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:19 pm

    Face…I have to admit that you have a smugness about you that probably led to many an ass whipping on the playground when you were a kid……

    If that makes you sleep better at night about being as smug about your own ignorance and supposed athleticism, feel free to imagine it.

  1472. blake December 30th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    Night all

  1473. Pat M. December 30th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    Bkae, I’m out of here as well…..Face you just played yourself into a corner…Checkmate !!!

  1474. kd December 30th, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    guys, ok if i weigh in?

    pat m is right when the ball has seams, like topspin in tennis, the seams can cause movement. like a slider or a curve ball

    lgy and face are correct if the ball was a perfect sphere.

    baseballs have seams. the rise is due to backspin. like a 4 seam fastball. this is why arod and other great swings try to impart backspin on the ball. it causes rise

  1475. Irreverent Discourse December 30th, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    That mythbusters video has been posted twice already.

  1476. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    the seams can cause movement. like a slider or a curve ball

    Oh so thats why those sliders were shooting up into the ceiling! No, sorry you don’t understand what the seams are doing or how A-rod hits HRs, because its not by hitting the ball at a 0 degree angle and the ball magically rising.

  1477. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    Bkae, I’m out of here as well…..Face you just played yourself into a corner…Checkmate !!!

    Played you into a corner, all you have is your childhood fantasies of being a bully, wishing you could hit me for being right, and thinking that because you washed out of an independent league that you are above others.

  1478. Jerkface December 30th, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    For further research on your wrongess, enjoy this PDF: http://www.sie.arizona.edu/sys.....stball.pdf

  1479. Bret The Hitman December 30th, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    What an off season.

    We’re talking about the physics of baseball vs. player and fan perception of baseball.

    This is some exciting s”#%HT.

    So the ball doesn’t actually rise and the fans and players don’t actually give a S#”HT if they use appropriate terminologies to describe the experience.

    The next time Arod K’s I want him to lay down a quote in the press for me.

    “I K’d on a ball thrown at zero trajectory that seemed to rise in my perception even though I know the laws of physics makes it impossible to throw a ball that actually rises and that to describe it as such would make me look like an outright fool. I’m not going to fall for any tricks here. Pass the tea and crumpets, George King, thanks.”

  1480. Bret The Hitman December 31st, 2011 at 12:07 am

    So Buster Olney says the Yankees have been quietly snooping (my words) around for a RF in advance of Swisher’s free agency? That’s good. Means they prefer not to reup with the clown.

  1481. BD (Boston Dave) December 31st, 2011 at 12:26 am

    No need to bad mouth Swisher. Good guy that loves being a Yankee and its not like he’s a slouch.

  1482. yanks61 December 31st, 2011 at 3:21 am

    Good Morning, everyone.

    A few pieces of interest -

    First of all, apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the Yanks have just re-signed Andruw Jones.

    Secondly, for those who are interested in the game’s history, a great NY Giants (baseball) OF, Don Mueller, died yesterday. Called “Mandrake the Magician” after a well known cartoon character, Mueller was another of those wizards with a bat who, like Wee Willie Keeler, could “hit ‘em where they ain’t.” He kept the Giants rally going in the ninth inning of Bobby Thomson’s “shot heard round the world.”

    And finally, speaking of the rest of the world, a Yankees cap, according to the NYTimes, has now been spotted in North Korea! So, they are not only ubiquitous here in France and the rest of Europe, but even beginning to move into that unreal world that is North Korea. The spotting game is now moving to Iran. There should be a prize for the first photo of a Yankee cap in every country :)

  1483. yanks61 December 31st, 2011 at 3:31 am

    And now for those ready for a bit of gossip –

    Derek Jeter and Minka Kelly have just been spotted in the City of Love. So they are apparently back on again. All that NY wildlife must have been wearing Derek down :)

    I don’t know what this means for the baseball season to come, but if things don’t go well for the couple in the future, they will, at least, always have Paris.

  1484. Gary December 31st, 2011 at 7:17 am

    blake December 30th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
    and that would make really 3 super staffs in the American league….Angels, Rays, Tigers.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Morning, many here downplay the Sox, but with Beckett, Lester, Buckhotz, Bard, and maybe another SP pickup bridging to Melcon and Bailey they could as well be pretty tough.

    I think the Sox will be right there again this year. New Manager and maybe a few less injuries and Crawford playing better and they could be tough.

    Said all along that Yanks needed to make some moves on SP, so far none.

  1485. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 7:20 am

    I thought the Knights Templar were disbanded in the Middle Ages ?

    Guess not because some here still seem to be on a Mission. A Crusade if you will.

    I’ll be just be happy if I wake up tommorrow and get to see the Sun one more time.

    Content to “go off sniffing drain pipes and reciting the alphabet” as a famous songwriter once said.

    I leave all you geniuses here to figure out all the really complicated stuff and to know what really matters in life.

    Anyway, I wish all of you, and I mean each and every one, a Healthy, Happy, and Prosperous New Year filled with peace.

    If any of of us are still here after 2012 I’ll repeat the message then.

    And who knows. We might even have that Left-handed starter for the Ro by then.

    ;)

  1486. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Here’s my New Year’s gift to all of you. A few pics to start your year right.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/SimpleThings?authkey=Gv1sRgCKP25tuduNG3kQE#

    Enjoy the simple beauty. I hope you find peace in the small things around you.

    Happy New Year.

    :)

  1487. MaineYankee December 31st, 2011 at 7:58 am

    MTU

    If you want it filled with peace you need to stay away from this place. :D :

  1488. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:01 am

    Maine-

    Sometimes that’s oh so true.

    But not always.

    Happy New Year to you and Mrs. Maine.

    :)

  1489. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 8:07 am

    is there anybody who’s every done any study of the ‘rising fastball’ who hasn’t shown that it isnt possible? i mean it’s weird that people would hold onto that myth, i remember the question coming up when i was in elementary school in the 60′s and my science teacher said it had been proven to be impossible.

  1490. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Good morning MTU. Hope you had a good hike yesterday. Want to wish you all the best this coming year.

    There was a lot of heated discussion abouut the “rising” fastball thrown overhand. I found an article by former Cub pitcher Steve Ellis about all grips used to throw different pitches.

    Does a four-seam fastball rise?

    “No,” says Bill James, author of the The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers. “A fastball can’t rise unless it’s thrown underhand. But if you throw the fastball overhand with enough force, it will appear to rise because it’s not dropping as much as the batter’s brain thinks it should.”

    So there you have it. Reality is ones perception of what is real. Neither side therefore was completely right

    CASE CLOSED :)

    BTW I threw a rising fastball-however it was a wiffle ball, gripped it in such a way that because it was so light it rose!

  1491. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 8:12 am

    “So there you have it. Reality is ones perception of what is real.”

    …so until copurnicus, the sun actually did revolve around the earth?

  1492. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:12 am

    YT-

    Thanks. I did. It was almost 60. Great day for a Winter hike. I wish you and yours all the best that life has to offer in the coming year.

    Even a true rising FB to go with your Unicorn.

    ;)

  1493. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Everyone-

    Happy and helathy New year.

    Wanted to attach that interesting article on pitching grips by former Cub pitcher, Steven Ellis:

    http://www.thecompletepitcher......_grips.htm

  1494. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:17 am

    “There is more than is dreamt of in your Philosophy Horatio.”

    How did you do that he asked the Magician ?

    And the Magician replied, “Sleight of hand” young man. “Sleight of hand”. “It’s all just trickery but you have to know the secret” .

    ;)

  1495. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 8:20 am

    so this morning we’ve already covered the ‘knights of templar’, copernican theory, existentialism and its relation to perception and Horatio. not a bad start…

  1496. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 8:21 am

    Meant to say Healthy New Year not helathy, which might be construed as hellacious. My berry bad!!

  1497. blake December 31st, 2011 at 8:23 am

    MTU,

    Happy new years eve andhelp nice pics

    Gary,

    True that the Sox rotation “could “be really good as well……however they carry a lot more injury risk and also currently the back of their rotation is one of the worst in baseball………

  1498. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 8:24 am

    bard will be the set up man but aceves will start

  1499. MaineYankee December 31st, 2011 at 8:25 am

    MTU

    Happy New Year to you and Mrs. Maine.

    ——————————————————————

    I wish the same for you and Mrs. MTU.

  1500. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 8:26 am

    ok so now im the 1500th commenter on this post!

  1501. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 8:27 am

    “I think the Sox will be right there again this year. New Manager and maybe a few less injuries and Crawford playing better and they could be tough”

    Since they finished 3rd the last two seasons, I’m inclined to agree with you that they will be “right there again this year.”

    ;)

    Actually they could find themselves battling for 4th. I have no faith in what Bailey brings to the table, and if he can’t at least match what Papelbum did to help them come in 3rd, they will be in trouble aplenty.

  1502. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Y’s-

    And we’re just getting warmed up around here.

    Happy New Year.

    YT-

    That’s Ok. I have a hellaciously good time.

    Blake-

    The very best to you, your wife, and especially all the little Blake’s.

    :)

  1503. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:30 am

    Thanks Maine. I need all the help I can get.

    ;)

  1504. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 8:31 am

    MTU, GORGEOUS photos. The shot of the tree is magnificent.

    I could never hope to match the beauty and integrity of your photos but I’d like to try to return the favor with some shots of the Woods where I walk once the snow falls – which I hope is soon…

    :)

  1505. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 8:33 am

    Ys Guy-

    Good one. So back to baseball.

    Andruw Jones signed for the same 2M as this past season with 1.4M in incentives. I was never a Jones fan after he left the Braves, but this is a pretty reasonable choice as a 4th corner OF’er to play mostly against lefties

    Nakajima and the Yankees have until January 6th to get a deal done. Maybe the’ll drop Ramiro Pena from the 40 man and finally sign Nakajima?

    Kuroda-Doesn’t seem that the earlier interested teams, the Diamondbacks and Rockies are still in it, the red Sox are close or over the lux tax threshold. Will his 12M demand[same as last years salary] come down and maybe the Yankees bite if it’s 7-8M with a vesting option for a 2nd year, or it’s sayanora-back to Japan for a much lower salary. Expect a decision by next week.

  1506. blake December 31st, 2011 at 8:33 am

    MTU,

    The very same to you my man.

  1507. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 8:35 am

    If I had one wish for lohud it would be that the nastiness level would dissipate. But someone once told me that men comfortably communicate “that way” and can call each other some pretty awful names one minute and be palling around the next.

    Still…

  1508. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Trisha-

    Thank you. My pleasure to share. Have a wonderful New Year filled with Joy.

    I call that shot “The tree of Heaven”.

    Simplicity is very beautiful sometimes.

    I look forward to your gift to me.

    Sometimes we forget what is truly important. It is in our nature. It is good to be reminded every now and then.

    Be well. And keep eating spicy food !

    ;)

  1509. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 8:38 am

    “bard will be the set up man but aceves will start”

    I don’t know that Aceves is still built to start with his history of back problems.

    I give the Sux not very long before it’s apparent they are still a mess with no cleaning lady in sight.

  1510. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 8:39 am

    MTU-

    In my rush to scan thru these last 1300 plus entries and memorize them all, I missed those beautiful photos.

    As I said before about the rising fastball dilemma-Reality is ones perception of what is real, those pictures are always fantastic and very well appreciated.

  1511. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:40 am

    I to go to prepare for the Day.

    If you decide to get drunk Tonight I hope you don’t have far to fall or that there is hedge there to break it.

    Later. Try to behave yourselves.

    :)

  1512. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 8:40 am

    MTU – you are a dream human being. You singularly make this forum a kinder, gentler place.

    Thank you for that. And much peace and beauty to you in the new year. I don’t need to wish Yankee patience and understanding to you because you already own it. Thank the Lord.

  1513. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 8:44 am

    “In my rush to scan thru these last 1300 plus entries and memorize them all”

    :D

  1514. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:44 am

    YT-

    It may sound corny but that is a piece of my soul.

    I am very glad you enjoyed them. I have been gifted with the chance to share some of the beautiful land.

    It’s an honor and a privledge.

    And it is very humbling.

    Time for a burrito to start the day right.

    ;)

  1515. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 8:45 am

    MTU

    Have a great day. Stay well and I always enjoy your morning contributions, photos and witticisms. :)

  1516. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:46 am

    Trisha-

    Don’t I wish.

    ;)

  1517. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 8:50 am

    Trisha-

    Good morning. Want to wish you all the best for a wonderful, healthy and peaceful New Year.

    Actually I didn’t read all 1300 entries. I press my mental “ignore” button and skip over those few posters whose sole aim is to antagonize.

  1518. MTU December 31st, 2011 at 8:51 am

    YT-

    Last thing I’ll say for now.

    I may be witty but John Greenleaf was moreso. I wish I had an “edge” like GB. More snark might be better.

    Catch you after a while. Get drunk. Laugh a lot. It’s good medicine.

  1519. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 8:24 am

    bard will be the set up man but aceves will start
    ——————————-
    don’t know about this reason might be that they picked two RP to release Bard to the rotation, they liked Aceves doing what he does

  1520. austinmac December 31st, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Trisha,

    I agree with you on the tenor of the board. It seems to me we can totally disagree, but still be affable. We are dealing with Yankee fans who presumably all want what they perceive to be the best for the team.

    For a reality check, no one who matters cares what we think anyway.

    But, Trisha, you are wrong when you disagree with me. However, I forgive you. :)

  1521. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Early morning rumors – Rangers might be after Soria, O’s thinking about Prince again, Tigers probably get Garza:

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    #Rangers have jumped in Soria derby, as of tonight.
    6 hours ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    @
    @clarknova11 I will say this… Perhaps they don’t think they have been eliminated. That’s all I’ll say.
    7 hours ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    @
    @JTrea81 Orioles are making a really strong, under the radar push for Prince.
    7 hours ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Folks, I cannot compromise my sources…sorry
    7 hours ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Unsure on who’s in the Tigers offer, but I would be shocked if Turner wasn’t a Cub.
    8 hours ago

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    High ranking #Cubs source: Likely to accept #Tigers offer for Garza soon

  1522. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 9:05 am

    also the are still in the hunt for a SP

    Also still in the hunt for a SP

  1523. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Double down

  1524. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Trader – and so much of the same to you in return!

    And I figured you didn’t read all of those posts. It was still funny though.

    :)

  1525. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 9:08 am

    austinmac -

    :lol:

  1526. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 9:15 am

    thought that Prince could end up with the Cubs but that team is so bad Would really like to see Prince go to Wash & make them a very dangerous s team in the NL Red Sox for sure will add another SP…

  1527. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 9:17 am

    Stoneburner-

    Of those rumors, which ones will become true?

    Royals can hit, but lack enough quality starting pitching. Soria to the Rangers for ?

    Tigers could use a lefty starter, but Garza will help them repeat in the central.

    While it makes sense for Fielder to sign with an AL team, especicially if this is a 7+ year contract, the nationals need him more. The Orioles would still be seriouslly short on pitching while the Nationals would be contendors in the NL East.

    Kuroda rumor is that if he stays in US he wants to play for a team that would be a WS contender. Expect a decision by home very soon, might return to Japan

  1528. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Him, not home

  1529. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 9:29 am

    It would only make sense that New York Yankees third baseman would date former professional wrestler Torrie Wilson. After all, he likely needs someone whom he can take to the gym.

  1530. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 9:17 am
    Stoneburner-

    Of those rumors, which ones will become true?

    Royals can hit, but lack enough quality starting pitching. Soria to the Rangers for ?

    Tigers could use a lefty starter, but Garza will help them repeat in the central.

    While it makes sense for Fielder to sign with an AL team, especicially if this is a 7+ year contract, the nationals need him more. The Orioles would still be seriouslly short on pitching while the Nationals would be contendors in the NL East.

    Kuroda rumor is that if he stays in US he wants to play for a team that would be a WS contender. Expect a decision by home very soon, might return to Japan

    **********

    1 Garza: I think he goes to the Tigers. They probably do a package built around Turner – their top pitching prospect – righty 6’5″ and a heck of a fastball.

    2 Fielder: I am not sure – I read that the Rangers still might be in play if they do NOT sign Darvish. Could go to the Nationals – but the O’s might jump in it appears with Dan Duquette now as the GM – he is the guy that secured Manny for the Sox back in 2001 or so. My guess is still the Nationals.

    3. Soria: This is an interesting one. The Rangers are loaded with prospects from the SS kid to the cuban OF Leonys Martin to pitching w/ LHP Perez. They could easily get Soria – and he would form a heck of a pen w/ Nathan and possibly Feliz if he is moved back to the rotation if Darvish signs – along with Adams. That is one crazy bullpen. This one is too far away to tell and I am not buying it until I read something further.

    It appears my Yanks are sticking to a plan – which I admire – not paying more for what value they assign to a certain player/pitcher. I hope it pays off – but I do admire the way Cashman and company have a philosophy and approach to things now instead of just reacting to the market and what other teams are doing.

  1531. blake December 31st, 2011 at 9:46 am

    Jacob Turner would be a major price to pay for two gears of Garza…..if the Tigers so it then it signifies that they see themselves as having a window to win a title and that they are going for it. That rotation would be very good….very right handed……but very good.

  1532. DSJ December 31st, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Looking back at 2011. The top three LoHud memories.

    3. Months of stupid meaningless chatter about trades and roster moves that never had an iceberg’s chance in he’ll of happening.

    2. Countless posters prove they are idiots by calling for Joba to start, not getting that he is and always will be a journeyman relief pitcher who will one day be pitching for Kansas City.

    1. And at number one in a landslide, the embarrassment and shame of the worst poster in the history of sports blogs, cookie dough Patty the manic freak of nature whose baseball ignorance is only surpassed by her abrasive personality and constant offensive inappropriate references to her imaginary lord.

  1533. Benny Blanco December 31st, 2011 at 9:58 am

    blake,

    Yankees not going after garza signals to me that they are betting the house that hughes wlll be THAT much better this year, dont you agree? That or they have zero faith that they can move AJ after the fact. NO?

  1534. RhapsodyInBlue December 31st, 2011 at 10:02 am

    DSJ the mysogynistic troll returns with a new handle.

    New name same dull unclever diatribes.

  1535. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 10:04 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 9:46 am
    Jacob Turner would be a major price to pay for two gears of Garza…..if the Tigers so it then it signifies that they see themselves as having a window to win a title and that they are going for it. That rotation would be very good….very right handed……but very good.

    ********

    I would think the Tigers have the resources to resign Garza to an extension – Dave Dombrowski probably has a plan in place. Very true – while it is very righthanded – heck all righthanded – very talented group.

  1536. Red Robin December 31st, 2011 at 10:09 am

    NEW POST

    (that is, by PeteAbe)

    Red Sox sign Hill to minor league deal

    December 30, 2011 03:05 PM

  1537. yankee21 December 31st, 2011 at 10:09 am

    If Hughes is hitting 94 consistently and re-develops his CB or CU into an outpitch, then he can be as good as Garza. The big question is if.

    If the asking price for Garza was a Banuelos centered package I am glad Cashman said no. If it was Betances, I think Cashman made a mistake. I guess we’ll never know.

    Good move re-signing Jones as the 4OF. He still is a legitimate bat against LHP and I think helps in pushing Gardner to be a little more focused to keep the everyday job.

  1538. pongo December 31st, 2011 at 10:11 am

    DJS that’s a lot of hate for one person to be carrying. Someone kick your dogs?

  1539. blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Benny,

    Yea….I think if they stand pat then they must have a pretty good feeling about Hughes…..however if Banuelos was going to have to be part of the package for Garza then I hope they do pass.

    Stone,

    Yea they could re-sign Garza of course…..however Turner is a potential stud and they’d be giving up 6 cheap big league years of him for 2 and an expensive extension of Garza

  1540. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 10:13 am

    yankee21 December 31st, 2011 at 10:09 am
    If Hughes is hitting 94 consistently and re-develops his CB or CU into an outpitch, then he can be as good as Garza. The big question is if.

    If the asking price for Garza was a Banuelos centered package I am glad Cashman said no. If it was Betances, I think Cashman made a mistake. I guess we’ll never know.

    Good move re-signing Jones as the 4OF. He still is a legitimate bat against LHP and I think helps in pushing Gardner to be a little more focused to keep the everyday job.

    *********

    Strongly agree about Jones – love the re-signing.

    Also agree w/ you on Hughes/Garza – though I think Garza’s fastball has a bit more umph to it and he has shown he can consistently throw at that velocity.

  1541. dogface December 31st, 2011 at 10:19 am

    If Hughes is hitting 94 consistently….

    =============================

    Hughes has never hit 94 consistently as a starter. 92.6 average fastball in ’10, 91.3 last year. Even as a reliever in ’09 he was a shade under 94 at 93.8.

  1542. yankee21 December 31st, 2011 at 10:22 am

    DF, what was Hughes’ FB clocked at the first two-three months of 2010?

    His stuff tailed off the second part of 2010 no question- might have been the innings uptick.

  1543. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 10:24 am

    The New York Yankees still are interested in Garza, it looks like besides who to trade for him that the other issue is the money he’s making plus salary arbitration in 13……Yankees seem dead set on a budget

  1544. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 10:25 am

    yankee21 December 31st, 2011 at 10:22 am
    DF, what was Hughes’ FB clocked at the first two-three months of 2010?

    His stuff tailed off the second part of 2010 no question- might have been the innings uptick.

    *********

    I also thought that – while the velocity may not be super high – that there was some deception to Hughes’ fastball when he is on that – in the proverbial words of Joe G – sneaky fast. . . .

  1545. dogface December 31st, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Y21:

    Don’t know, but the difference between the 2010 average and last season’s is not insignificant. He’s more effective dealing at 92-93 than he is 89-91 like he was much of last year.

  1546. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 10:28 am

    DSJ December 31st, 2011 at 9:58 am

    ========

    Merry Christmas!

  1547. blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:32 am

    If Theo gets a Turner centered package for Garza……then you’ll likely be able to argue that he got more in return for Garza than Beane did for Gio…..and you could also argue he got more for Marshall than Beane did for Bailey.

  1548. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 10:33 am

    joeman December 31st, 2011 at 10:24 am
    The New York Yankees still are interested in Garza, it looks like besides who to trade for him that the other issue is the money he’s making plus salary arbitration in 13……Yankees seem dead set on a budget

    ***********

    I hope they are still in it on Garza – I like his ability and think he would be a very nice addition to the staff.

    As far as budget – After 2012 Swisher (10.5 million) and Mo (15 million) and Feliciano (4 million) come off the books – that is 29.5 million off the books. After 2013 – Granderson (14 million) and Burnett (16.5 million) and Sorinao (13 million) come off the books as well – and that is around 43.5 million off the books.

    Now the Yankees will have to deal with filling starter position, RF, CF, closer – as well as pay for the new contracts or arb raises in the following: Cano, DRob, Hughes, Gardner, Joba, Nova will be arb eligible after 2013 I believe.

    The Yankees will have to plan the budget smartly to be at that 189 million threshold entering the 2014 season – but I can see how there is room.

  1549. yankee21 December 31st, 2011 at 10:33 am

    DF, agreed no way no how, Hughes can live at 92 or below with his current repertoire.

    He is toast especially against teams that will simply sit on his FB and just ignore his currently pedestrian secondary pitches.

    Hence my initial statement.

  1550. blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:34 am

    The Yankees will have to plan the budget smartly to be at that 189 million threshold entering the 2014 season – but I can see how there is room.”

    which is why they should go ahead and discuss an extension with Cano now

  1551. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 10:34 am

    you can get the Nats right now at 25-1 to win the NL East…….with Prince coming aboard it’s excellent value

  1552. blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:39 am

    If the Nats add Fielder…..they’ll have a competitive team….don’t know if it’ll be enough to catch the Phillies in 2012 but both the Nats and Braves are going to overtake them in the next 2 or 3 years at some point IMO

  1553. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 10:42 am

    http://www.foxsportsshop.com/F....._Nationals

  1554. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 10:42 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:34 am
    The Yankees will have to plan the budget smartly to be at that 189 million threshold entering the 2014 season – but I can see how there is room.”

    which is why they should go ahead and discuss an extension with Cano now

    ***********

    It will be interesting to see if Boras/Cano even want to talk about a contract extension at this point.

  1555. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 10:33 am
    =========================

    None of those contracts that are coming off the books in the next couple of years seem out of line with industry standards, with the exception of Soriano’s contract. The easiest way that I can see for the Yanks to make the math work (after including the raises that will be due to is for them to rely their young pitching prospects to to fill out their rotation after AJ leaves (Banuelos would earn about $16 million than AJ, all by is lonesome.)

    I just don’t think that the Yanks have much flexibility at all, as long as they have A-Rod’s contract with which to contend.

  1556. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 10:42 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:34 am
    The Yankees will have to plan the budget smartly to be at that 189 million threshold entering the 2014 season – but I can see how there is room.”

    which is why they should go ahead and discuss an extension with Cano now

    ***********

    It will be interesting to see if Boras/Cano even want to talk about a contract extension at this point.
    ====================

    If the Yanks let Cano or Granderson walk, then we will know that there has been a real change in the Yanks’ operating procedure…

  1557. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 10:47 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:39 am

    If the Nats add Fielder…..they’ll have a competitive team….don’t know if it’ll be enough to catch the Phillies in 2012 but both the Nats and Braves are going to overtake them in the next 2 or 3 years at some point IMO
    =======

    If they can grab the last wild card spot, the Nats could give a lot of teams some trouble. That starting pitching of theirs potentially could match up with anybody in a short series.

  1558. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 10:51 am

    With the extra Wild Card, there are now 5 playoff slots. AL Teams having a realistic playoff shot = Rangers, Angels, Tigers, Rays, R\Sox, Yankees = 6. If your one of those 6 teams, your odds of making the Playoffs are pretty darn good, so why shoot your wad now? Why not wait till July 31 when you can see Exactly what your team needs for a stretch run and a World Series Championship? Detroit or Boston can have Garza, as they would be emptying their gun unnecessarily, And at the wrong time. The numbers sighted above speak for themselves. Cashman’s mantra until July should be, “Don’t fire till you can see the white’s of their eyes”.

  1559. 86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 10:53 am

    I’m still not buying the $ 189 M… it’s almost impossible to see them getting there and remaining a contender with four guys getting half the payroll.

    Blake…

    The Yanks didn’t extend Jeter. They didn’t extend Mariano. They are not going to extend Cano.

  1560. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 10:57 am

    DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 10:51 am

    “…. why shoot your wad now? Why not wait till July 31 when you can see Exactly what your team needs for a stretch run and a World Series Championship? ….”

    ========

    Waiting could be a good idea. However, some reasonably priced alternatives could be missed by waiting until the trade deadline. (For example, Kuroda would be a good option, but he likely won’t be available at the trade deadline. Moreover, virtually all of the options available at the trade deadline will cost prospects in addition to money…

  1561. 86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 10:59 am

    If Kuroda or Oswalt would come for a contract similar to Garcia’s I’d be for it…

    but not at $ 10 M +

  1562. blake December 31st, 2011 at 10:59 am

    “The Yanks didn’t extend Jeter. They didn’t extend Mariano. They are not going to extend Cano.”

    they didn’t have a budget number of 189 to think about then and they were operating differently at the time. If they are going to stick to a strict budget then they need to start thinking about things like this….trying to save money and also trying to get major pieces under control so that they can budget for 2014 more effectively.

    Granderson is a different issue…..he’s 2 years older and had really only been an elite player for one season….I’d be more comfortable re-evaluating him when his deal is up.

    Cano has been an elite player for awhile now and is going to cost a fortune on the open market barring injury…..now in the past the Yankees could afford to take that risk out of the equation because they’d be willing to just outbid everyone in free agency…..if they aren’t going to do that anymore….or if doing that will affect other moves because of the budget then they need to consider changing the way they do things for special players IMO.

    you don’t want to get into a situation where you are close to the 189 threshold in 2014 and Boras has that as leverage against you……

  1563. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 11:00 am

    86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 10:53 am

    …They are not going to extend Cano.

    =========

    This would be a very big deal!! Jeter and Rivera got shorter contracts, but they were both over 36,or so, when it happened. Can o is just entering his prime. Are you suggesting that the Yanks would let Cano leave?

  1564. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:01 am

    basically what I’m saying is that it makes no sense to operate on a fairly strict budget…..and at the same time being unwilling to discuss things that could save money in the long run

  1565. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I don’t know that this is the case…..but if Cano would accept a 6 or 7 year extension now to have the security of being under a long term contract….then that could potentially save a couple of years and millions of dollars off what he would demand as a FA in 2 years. They should at the very least discuss it.

  1566. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 11:06 am

    - BLAKE -
    Plus, you gotta factor in how difficult it is to get a 2B with the Power #’s of Cano. Supply and demand dictate locking Cano up before he files for free agency and the feeding frenzy drives his value\ $$$ UP.

  1567. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Locking Cano up long-term now, would be much like The Boss did with Jeter back in the day.

  1568. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 11:11 am

    DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Locking Cano up long-term now, would be much like The Boss did with Jeter back in the day.
    =====

    Yeah.

  1569. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:14 am

    look at it this way……if the Yankees offered Cano a 6/120 extension added to his two option years in 2012 and 2013 then it’s essentially an 8/149 contract he’s signing….and he’d be locked up through age 36…..when he be starting to decline likely but not significantly so given good health.

    Now if you waited…..and he put up similar seasons in 2012 and 2013 as he has the last two years…..are you going to be able to sign him for 6/120 at that point? probably not…..probably will take 7 or 8 years if he hits the market as an elite player at age 30.

    Also keep in mind that baseball salaries virutally never go down….we are in a terrible economy now and prices just keep going up.

  1570. 86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 11:15 am

    I’m in favor of tying Cano up for 5-7 years, but the Yanks policy is clear and I don’t see it changing. They should also try to do Matt Moore type deals with Robertson and Nova but I’m not expecting that either even though they have done such deals in the past (Righetti, Cano).

    I’m just not buying the $ 189 M angle. No one in authority has ever said anything close to it. It’s strictly a media twitter invention. They can only get there by replacing expiring contracts like AJ, Soriano, et al with rookies while signing ZERO outside free agents.

    The payroll has been relatively flat for four years and I suspect they’ll stay close to where they’ve been.

  1571. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 11:15 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I don’t know that this is the case…..but if Cano would accept a 6 or 7 year extension now to have the security of being under a long term contract….then that could potentially save a couple of years and millions of dollars off what he would demand as a FA in 2 years. They should at the very least discuss it.
    =============

    I think that ARod could be a big help in getting Cano to sign up longterm. ARod dumped Boras shortly after he got his new contract. I suspect that he had a falling out with Boras over how the last negotiation went, and I wouldn’t be surprised if ARod didn’t make a hone call to Cano behind the scenes to warn him not to trust Boras too much…

  1572. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:17 am

    “I’m in favor of tying Cano up for 5-7 years, but the Yanks policy is clear and I don’t see it changing.”

    maybe not….but it’s a dumb policy that no longer fits the way they are operating anymore.

  1573. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:20 am

    i don’t think they’ll let that threshold in 2014 keep them from putting a winning team on the field if it’s looking like it won’t….theyd stand to lose too much revenue….

    however there are real incentives to staying under that number as the tax rate increases dramatically and it’s my understanding that if you’re under for 2014 you get amnesty for 2015.

  1574. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 11:20 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:14 am

    Also keep in mind that baseball salaries virutally never go down….we are in a terrible economy now and prices just keep going up.

    ==========

    I’m not sure that I buy this. Salaries seem to have stabilized over the last few years. (e.g., Wilson signed for 5/77, and Lackey signed for 5/80 a couple of years ago. Pujols signed for less than ARod, etc.) Moreover, the Yanks’ salaries have been falling for the last couple of years, which also would slow upward momentum. Boras can hardly scare teams with the “big, bad Yankees” gambit anymore…

  1575. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Ghost,

    Wilson was offered 6/98 though from the Marlins and gave the Angels a discount……and the Arod deal isnt really a good indicator of the market either…..look at the Crawford, Werth, Reyes, Buerle, deals etc…….Sabathia, Tex, Gonzalez…..

  1576. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 11:29 am

    The Cano scenario sighted above makes perfect sense. You could even back load the thing so that in 2014 cano is not making $20 Mill.
    The MLB Network did a breakdown on the Angels\Pujols deal, and showed he has a $10 Mill Personal Services contract included. Does anyone know if that $10 Mill Personal Services $$$ is separate $$$, or is it applied to the AAV $$$?

  1577. Yank 97 December 31st, 2011 at 11:29 am

    DF, agreed no way no how, Hughes can live at 92 or below with his current repertoire.

    He is toast especially against teams that will simply sit on his FB and just ignore his currently pedestrian secondary pitches.

    ————-

    Agree. Another thing is that his stuff fluctuates so much from start to start. Some days his FB is a legit swing and miss pitch, other days, it’s batting practice.

  1578. 86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 11:31 am

    There is already an incentive to be below the luxury tax threshold (40 % penalty) and the Yanks have ignored it from day one. Yes, the incentives are greater, but the incentive to win trumps that.

    It’s not true the payroll has been coming down. According to Cott’s, the last seven years the Yanks have spent $ 208, 195, 190, 209, 201, 213 and 207.

    The average for the last 4 years is 207.5 and I bet it stay close to that for the next four.

    Again, I must ask the question: When and where has anyone in authority said anything about reducing payroll 10 % ???

  1579. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 11:36 am

    86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 11:31 am

    There is already an incentive to be below the luxury tax threshold (40 % penalty) and the Yanks have ignored it from day one. Yes, the incentives are greater, but the incentive to win trumps that.

    It’s not true the payroll has been coming down. According to Cott’s, the last seven years the Yanks have spent $ 208, 195, 190, 209, 201, 213 and 207.

    The average for the last 4 years is 207.5 and I bet it stay close to that for the next four.

    Again, I must ask the question: When and where has anyone in authority said anything about reducing payroll 10 % ???
    ==================

    207 is less than 213. And these values that you cited are in nominal terms. In real terms (excluding inflation), the decline would be even more pronounced.

  1580. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:38 am

    The Yankees don’t count…..looks at the rest of the teams in baseball’s payrolls over the last 7 years.

  1581. Shame Spencer December 31st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    “Again, I must ask the question: When and where has anyone in authority said anything about reducing payroll 10 % ???”

    Does it have to be explicitly stated for you to believe its possibly on their minds? I’m only asking because if you consider the moves/non-moves over the past two off-seasons, their actions might lend itself to this theory despite them not spelling it out for us (and every other GM/team in baseball..possibly strategic?).

  1582. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Red Sox payroll in 2003: 99 million. 2011: 163 million

  1583. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:45 am

    The teams that spend money….and drive free agency almost all have significantly higher payrolls than they did 5 years ago except the Yanks……there are some exceptions like the Mets who are trying to rebuild etc…..but revenue sharing and agents trying to beat previous deals has created more competition and more competition for the elite players means contracts go up……the Phillies payroll has doubled since 2007

  1584. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Boston, Toronto, and Tampa’s salaries are all down this year….

  1585. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 11:47 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Red Sox payroll in 2003: 99 million. 2011: 163 million
    ========

    What was it in 2010?

  1586. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:48 am

    in 2002 there were 4 teams with a 100 million dollar payrolll……in 2011 there were 12 and there may be more in 2012.

  1587. raymagnetic December 31st, 2011 at 11:50 am

    “The Yanks didn’t extend Jeter.”

    They tried to extend Jeter before he signed his 10 year deal but the Boss said no go.

  1588. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:51 am

    “Boston, Toronto, and Tampa’s salaries are all down this year….”

    can’t look at 1 year to the following year……you look at the overall trend with big market teams (the ones that drive the free agent market). Boston’s payroll in 2012 will be higher than both 2010 and 2011 and between 60 and 70 million more than it was 10 years ago…….is the economy better than it was 10 years ago?

  1589. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:55 am

    small market teams like the Rays aren’t who I am talking about….their payrolls will vary a lot depending on where they are that year….they Rays went for it in 2010 and bumped their payroll up that year……then cut it back down in 2011. The Rays hardly ever affect free agency….

    What I’m talking about is teams like the Sox, Phillies, Rangers, Angels, Tigers, yankees……that are driving the free agent market and causing individual star players to make more money that they did in the past.

  1590. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Just wondering if that Pujols $10 Mill Personal Services money, is an Angel way of lowering the total AAV of their deal with him. Anyone know if AAV Includes Personal Services money. If the guy is doing the work after he retires, I’m guessing that $$$ does NOT apply to the AAV = loophole.

  1591. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Pujols will make the least amount of money when he is the best…..and the most amount of money when he is the worse. That contract is going to be awful unless Albert is still Albert for at least 5 or 6 more years. The problem is that the Cardinals have likely already gotten the best years from him……and he’s already showing signs of decline. The Angels need to win now….which is why they’ll probably sign Madson too and go full bore to win it all in 2012.

  1592. 86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 11:59 am

    The Boss is dead…. Hal has not extended anyone

    You can’t pick two years as a trend. That’s why I showed how the Yanks have kept payroll relatively flat for 7 years. Yes if you adjust for inflation it would look like a cut, but I live in real dollars. If Hal has not cut actual spending before why would he go for a 10 % cut now?

    MLB set a record average salary this year. It’s hardly cutting back as an industry, but it is getting a little bit smarter.

    Shame — I don’t need it publicly stated, but I do need to see tangible evidence. The decisions on extending CC, picking up Swisher’s option, offering arbitration to Martin and re-signing Garcia are not the acts of an organization looking to cut payroll. Even if you look at CC as absolutely essential the others weren’t.

    Have a day guys… time to go

  1593. blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:59 am

    Pretty sure the personal services stuff doesn’t factor into the AAV or luxury tax.

  1594. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    The Angels certainly need to win now, but just as big a factor in the Pujols signing was Moreno wanting to take over the LA Market while the Dodgers are on Skid Row. The back loading of that Pujols deal woulda sunk the Posideon even with Gene Hackman on board.

  1595. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    - Blake -
    I would consider that Personal Services $$$ a Huge Loophole in the AAV\2014.

  1596. LGY December 31st, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    You can’t evaluate payrolls right now because the arbitration process has not even begun yet.

    Boston, for example, is getting a ~15M increase from Ortiz.

  1597. blake December 31st, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    “I would consider that Personal Services $$$ a Huge Loophole in the AAV\2014.”

    yea but that’s just tacked on and I think the Luxury tax is calculated on the AAV of the overall contract….which for him would be 25.4 million……plus you have to pay him after he’s not even playing anymore which can’t be fun.

  1598. blake December 31st, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Can’t see how Boston stays under 170 unless they work something out with Ortiz…like a 2 year deal at a lower AAV. If Boston addresses their other holes they may get in the 180′s.

  1599. LGY December 31st, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    The Rays had a 42M payroll last year.

    With Mlbtraderumors projected arbitration salaries they are at about 48M right now.

  1600. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    I’m not sure this is accurate. Thought the rate goes to 50% for the start of the 2014 season when the luxury tax exceeds 189M.

    Under the new labor contract, the Yankees’ rate would increase to 42.5 percent next year and 50 percent in 2013 if they continue to exceed the threshold, and Boston’s rate would go up to 40 percent next season.

    Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ml.....z1i8LcuFyW

  1601. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    - BLAKE -
    Yea, but if your the Yanks, and you give Cano a $20 Mill Personal Services contract, and that $20 Mill gets you under the $189\ repeat offender penalty, it is money well spent.

  1602. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Maintaining something close to $189\2014 makes it look Very difficult to resign Rusty Martin. The Yankee catching depth is definitely gonna be used at the MLB level.

  1603. Yank 97 December 31st, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    If the Yanks want to lower payroll, they have to make some genuine sacrifices… i.e. letting Swisher go next year and replacing him with a lesser player. Letting Martin walk, perhaps letting Granderson walk rather than paying him from Age 32 on, not signing a Hamels or Cain if they reach FA, not signing a pitcher like Kuroda that could be a major upgrade (as we’re seeing now), etc.

    Their not going to lower their payroll by that much if they simply make concessions on small items. Sure, Burnett is off the books in 2 years, but Grandy is up then too. Are they really going to pass on Hamels? If not, add another $22+ million to the books.

    In 6 years when the CC/Tex/ARod contracts are off the books, perhaps they can get it down, but even then, who knows what the landscape will look like?

  1604. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    There’s one more reason for the Yankees to renounce their old ways — the new collective-bargaining agreement now has strong incentives for staying under the luxury-tax threshold. Doing so even once in the next five years will drastically reduce the penalty for future splurges.

    The threshold for the next two years is $178 million; The Bombers concede they have no chance of downsizing that quickly. But 2014, when the ceiling is raised to $189 million, is another story. By then, Burnett and Rafael Soriano will be playing elsewhere. Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera likely will have retired.

  1605. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    George Clooney and Stacy Keibler with A-Rod and Torrie Wilson all in Cobo…. nice tag team match if I say so

  1606. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Yanks need to find some dummy like Theo did with the Manny for Bay deal. I do Not see Jeet hangin’ it up in 2014. Position switch yes, retiring no, and the Yanks have gotta bring the icon back.

  1607. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Yanks need to find some dummy like Theo did with the Manny for Bay deal. I do Not see Jeet hangin’ it up in 2014. Position switch yes, retiring no, and the Yanks have gotta bring the icon back.
    —————————
    where’s the position switch going to be to by then AROD will be full time DH

  1608. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    someone tell me Montero will be the full time catcher on this team in 2014 & if not what will his roll on this team, keep in mind we will still have AROD

  1609. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    - JOE -
    Jeet = OF

  1610. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 11:51 am

    “Boston, Toronto, and Tampa’s salaries are all down this year….”

    can’t look at 1 year to the following year……you look at the overall trend with big market teams (the ones that drive the free agent market). Boston’s payroll in 2012 will be higher than both 2010 and 2011 and between 60 and 70 million more than it was 10 years ago…….is the economy better than it was 10 years ago?
    =============

    First of all, the number that you are spitting out are in nominal terms. Inflation alone accounts for about half of the increase in Boston’s salaries since 2001. All else equal, Boston’s salaries would be at around $148 million in 2011, just based on a 3 percent rate of inflation over the last 10 years. (A dollar in 2011 just doesn’t buy as much as a dollar in 2001.)

    Second, why is ten years ago the relevant point of reference? What do salaries from 10 years ago have to do with salaries today? I simply made the point that salaries have stabilized in recent years, and it largely seems that they have. The most important example of this tightening of salaries are the Yankees, who often set the market for the high-priced free agents.

    Yes, there is significant downward stickiness in salaries, owing to existing contractual obligations. However, it does seem to me that the increase in salaries has slowed, at least for the star players. Look at this listing of the highest-paid players in the league:
    http://content.usatoday.com/sp.....yer/top-25

    How many of these contracts were signed in the last year or two? It seems to me that most of these contracts predate the 2009 season, and that the contracts signed since then are actually a bit smaller in many cases (with the obvious exceptions of Halladay, Lee, and Howard) on a annualized basis.

  1611. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    - JOE -
    Jeet = OF
    —————————
    going to be 40 years old in june of that year…OF really don’t see it

  1612. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Yanks need to find some dummy like Theo did with the Manny for Bay deal. I do Not see Jeet hangin’ it up in 2014. Position switch yes, retiring no, and the Yanks have gotta bring the icon back.
    ===============

    In retrospect, the Jeter contract negotiations last year were a pretty clear indication that the Yanks were getting serious about holding the line on player salaries. It is still way too soon to make any guesses about Jeter in 2014. If he can still play near his current level in 2014, then I think that we’ll see him back in pinstripes. Jeter doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy that would hang in there just to get 4,000 hits if he can’t play well any more.

  1613. blake December 31st, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Ghost,

    I just don’t agree…..my whole point was that Cano may cost a lot more in 2 years than he does now ……for a variety of reasons…….one of which is that prices are trending upward….whether its inflation or whatever the reason ….prices in general will likely never be cheaper than they are now.

  1614. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    - GHOSTY -
    Agree regarding Jeet leaving if he goes down-hill in the next 2 yrs. I just do not see him slowing down to that extent. Right now, my guess is Jeet in LF for the Yanks in 2014.

  1615. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    86w183 December 31st, 2011 at 11:59 am

    The Boss is dead…. Hal has not extended anyone

    You can’t pick two years as a trend. That’s why I showed how the Yanks have kept payroll relatively flat for 7 years. Yes if you adjust for inflation it would look like a cut, but I live in real dollars. If Hal has not cut actual spending before why would he go for a 10 % cut now?
    =================

    Actually, you are talking in nominal (not real) dollars, but that’s beside the point. He has been cutting salaries. Unwinding their current payroll position, is going to take time, because the Yanks have a bunch of contractual obligations that tie their hands, but it they clearly are reducing their payroll, even in nominal terms. Old contracts are being allowed to expire without adding new high-priced contracts to replace them. Jeter’s salary has been cut. Matsui and Damon were both allowed to walk, because the Yanks weren’t willing to continue paying them at their former levels.

    The principal exceptions to this pattern are CC, ARod, and Soriano’s contracts. ARod’s contract predates the current drive towards payroll discipline. CC’s contract demonstrates that the Yanks remain committed to winning, and are willing to pay big salaries to deserving players. Soriano’s contract does not seem to fit into the new paradigm. However, if viewed as a hedge against an injury to Rivera, Soriano’s contract does make some sense.

  1616. Pat M. December 31st, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    37 years ago tonight The NY Yankees under George Steinbrenner made their mark as a pennant contender and made their imprint on free agency with the signing of Jim “Catfish ” Hunter…..They also had traded Bobby Murcer for Bobby Bonds….A year later Bobby Bonds would become Mickey River and Eddie Figueroa as they were the final pieces along with Bucky Bleepin Dent….However it all started with The Catfish…..It was an historic few weeks and then came the announcement….The Yanks were back !!!

  1617. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Ghost,

    I just don’t agree…..my whole point was that Cano may cost a lot more in 2 years than he does now ……for a variety of reasons…….one of which is that prices are trending upward….whether its inflation or whatever the reason ….prices in general will likely never be cheaper than they are now.
    ========

    I agree that Cano could cost more in two years than he does now. However, the upward trend in prices is probably the weakest reason to fear that possibility. I think that Cano is going to establish himself as one of the very best players in baseball in the coming years, and it would be wise to lock him in now, before he wins an MVP.

  1618. blake December 31st, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    “I agree that Cano could cost more in two years than he does now. However, the upward trend in prices is probably the weakest reason to fear that possibility. ”

    Oh yea i don’t deny that…..I never said it was the primary reason or that prices would be significantly more expensive 2 years from now.

  1619. blake December 31st, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    Basically Id a whole lot rather give Cano an 8 year deal now (6 years plus the options) than an 8 year deal as a free agent in two years……
    .

  1620. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    - GHOSTY -
    Agree regarding Jeet leaving if he goes down-hill in the next 2 yrs. I just do not see him slowing down to that extent. Right now, my guess is Jeet in LF for the Yanks in 2014.
    =

    I also tend to agree that Jeter has plenty left in the tank. However, he shook my faith in the first half of the season last year. Still, I think that he can remain a solid player for at least another 4 years. I REALLY would like to see him pass those pricks, Cobb and Rose on the all-time hit list. It would be nice to have a decent guy (and a Yankee) in that slot for a change :)

  1621. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Obviously, Jeter would probably need at least another 6 years to pass Rose, but I remain hopeful…

  1622. blake December 31st, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    I can see the Yankees waiting two years ……then having to give Cano a Matt Kemp contract at age 30 to keep him………and that’s the kind of thing they have to try and avoid if they are going to stick to this budget stuff.

  1623. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    I can see the Yankees waiting two years ……then having to give Cano a Matt Kemp contract at age 30 to keep him………and that’s the kind of thing they have to try and avoid if they are going to stick to this budget stuff.
    ——

    As I recall, the Yanks locked in Jeter and Bernie at good salaries on long-term deals. I think that it would wise for them to do so with Cano and Granderson. The tougher decision will be with Montero if he proves to be as ood as we all hope he is. Mauer will be the cautionary tale against long-term deals to young stars. especially catchers….

  1624. blake December 31st, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    I wouldn’t do it with Granderson now…..he’s two years older and really has only been an elite player one year…….Id wait his out and try to sign him to a 3 year deal or something after 2013 if he’s still the same player……..

  1625. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    The only argument that I can see against not locking Cano in on a long-term deal now is that he might get complacent if he has a long-term deal in hand. I don’t know the man, but I get the sense that he could be the kind of guy that might coast if he felt secure. However, I’m sure that the Yanks could put in some enticing incentives into the deal to keep him motivated.

  1626. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    thank goodness ‘sports’ is doing such a great job of covering the team in chad’s abscence!

  1627. exiledintampa December 31st, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    Chi Sox Trade Quentin to Padres for peanuts. Why did they sing Danks long term. Wtf

  1628. exiledintampa December 31st, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    sign*

  1629. blake December 31st, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    Because Kenny Williams isn’t a very good GM……better question is what on earth do the Padres want with Carlos Quentin unless they plan on trading him as well……

  1630. dogface December 31st, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Chi Sox Trade Quentin to Padres for peanuts. Why did they sing Danks long term. Wtf

    ========================

    Danks is young and healthy. Young enough to be part of a pseudo rebuilding program. Plus 5 and $65M was a very good contract for the White Sox.

    Quentin? He’s a china doll who’s managed 120 games in a season twice in his career and is one year from free agency. Opens up a spot for the Cuban kid Viciedo or whatever his name is.

  1631. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    The Padres ptching was pretty good in 2011. If they can add about 50 to 100 runs to their offensive output, they could be pretty competive in the NL West. Quentin should shore up their offense somewhat.

  1632. dogface December 31st, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    better question is what on earth do the Padres want with Carlos Quentin unless they plan on trading him as well…

    =========================

    If I were Quentin, I wouldn’t buy anything in SD. No better than 50/50 that he’s still a Padre on 8/1. Not sure why they went this way unless it was in an effort to field something closer to an MLB offense than what they’ve had in recent years.

  1633. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    dogface December 31st, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    better question is what on earth do the Padres want with Carlos Quentin unless they plan on trading him as well…

    =========================

    If I were Quentin, I wouldn’t buy anything in SD. No better than 50/50 that he’s still a Padre on 8/1. Not sure why they went this way unless it was in an effort to field something closer to an MLB offense than what they’ve had in recent years.
    ==========

    SD might be able to catch lightning in a bottle with Quentin in his walk-year.

  1634. UnKnown December 31st, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    Kalish won’t be ready for the Sux to open 2012. Probably won’t be much of a factor all year. Be interesting to see what they do their in right.

    Also, I am not sold on Bailey being successful in Boston.

  1635. dogface December 31st, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    The Padres ptching was pretty good in 2011

    =========================

    True, but their best hurler will be chucking ‘em for the Reds the next few seasons. Still, adding Quinten, Alonso and getting a healthy Headly should make them a little better than they were in ’11 with the bats.

  1636. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    I’m really pleased to see that the Yanks resigned Jones. He should be a nice piece for the bench…

  1637. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Bats blog on NYTimes has rob neyer analysis of the current state of arod’s contract:

    “The Yankees have paid Rodriguez $127 million over the last four seasons, but have received on-field value of only $82 million. Of course, the Yankees are uniquely able to absorb a $45 million difference between cost and performance.”

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/.....more-55881

  1638. blake December 31st, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    Scott Swaim
    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Was told again this morning: #Cubs and #Tigers are very close to a Garza deal.
    23 minutes ago

    Jon Heyman
    JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
    #yankees and nakajima said far apart in talks. tuesday is deadline, so there’s time.
    1 hour ago

  1639. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Bats blog on NYTimes has rob neyer analysis of the current state of arod’s contract:

    “The Yankees have paid Rodriguez $127 million over the last four seasons, but have received on-field value of only $82 million. Of course, the Yankees are uniquely able to absorb a $45 million difference between cost and performance.”

    http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/…..more-55881
    ========

    I would be the last one to defend ARod’s contract. I thought that it was a mistake to give him that deal at the time, and I still think it was a mistake. I suspect that Hal and Hank panicked and were afraid of losing Arod, and that they wanted to deliver one last WS while the old man was alive. This is pure speculation.

    Still, Neyer, cracks me up with his make-believe numbers. What does “The Yankees have paid Rodriguez $127 million over the last four seasons, but have received on-field value of only $82 million, ” even mean? Presumably Neyer tried to value ARod against the other superstars in the league. ARod is paid more than his peers by a significant margin (Arod makes about 50 percent more than Ryan Howard and Beltran), and using this kind of a metric, ARod would have to outperform his peers by a significant margin as well. However, I don’t think that anybody was expecting him to do that, so what was the point of this exercise? Must ARod outperform Ryan Howard, Pujols, etc., by 50 percent to be worth his salary? Finally, did we really need these phony-baloney stats to come to the conclusion ARod’s salary far outstrips the value of “on-field contributions”?

    I really don’t understand how these contracts are priced, or how much revenue ARod generates for the Yanks. However, I would be willing to bet that ARod’s salary has a lot to do with the fact that he puts asses in seats, and he sells tickets. Somehow, some way, I think that the Yanks might be able to weather this $45 million loss that eyer imagined they suffered.

  1640. exiledintampa December 31st, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Asses in the seats. Exactly

  1641. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    i think neyer is referring to some connection between WAR and salary which I’ve heard others use. i think its totally bogus, but neyer just throws it out there like it’s straight mathematics and accepted fact that doesn’t need to be explained.

  1642. mick December 31st, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    HEADLINE:

    BLAKE WINS!!!!!

    MOST POSTS 2011!!!!!!

    HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1643. Carlo December 31st, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Sure hope these intense negotiations for a backup utility infielder don’t slow us down in our effort to be uninvolved with every free agent or trade candidate pitcher.

  1644. Gary December 31st, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 3:02 pm
    Scott Swaim
    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Was told again this morning: #Cubs and #Tigers are very close to a Garza deal.
    23 minutes ago

    Jon Heyman
    JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
    #yankees and nakajima said far apart in talks. tuesday is deadline, so there’s time.
    1 hour ago

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Blake given all the rethoric and the Darvish bid they are probably offering him cab fare and per diem meal money :-)

  1645. Gary December 31st, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 3:02 pm
    Scott Swaim
    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    Was told again this morning: #Cubs and #Tigers are very close to a Garza deal.
    23 minutes ago

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    I would not like to see that happen.

  1646. Gary December 31st, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Carlo December 31st, 2011 at 3:59 pm
    Sure hope these intense negotiations for a backup utility infielder don’t slow us down in our effort to be uninvolved with every free agent or trade candidate pitcher.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Carlos I don’t think you have any worries on that one.

  1647. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    ?Opening Day payrolls last 3 years for Yankees
    (Major League contracts plus pro-rated signing bonuses):
    ?2011: $207,047,964

    ?2010: $213,359,389

    ?2009: $201,449,189

    2014 guaranteed contracts as of now:
    A-Rod- 25M. If he reaches one of his 6M incentive homerun milestones I’m not sure which year it counts toward the luxury tax-probably the start of the following season.
    Sabathia-23M until 2016 when it becomes 25M
    Teixeira- 22.5M
    Jeter- 8M player option, 3M buyout

    Cano coming off a 15M 2013 contract
    Granderson coming off a 13M 2013 contract.

    For the 4 guaranteed large contracts that’s 78.5M+ possible 6M?
    Resigning Cano and Granderson could add some 35-37M possible
    That could be somewhere in the neighborhood for 6 players, 113.5M to 115.5M+

    Can they fill out the 40 man roster for another 70-74M and stay just under the 189M luxury tax threshold?

  1648. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Can they fill out the 40 man roster for another 70-74M and stay just under the 189M luxury tax threshold?
    =============

    If the pitching prospects come through, then I think that the Yanks can do it. If they have to go out on the open market to get a number-2-type pitcher, things could get really tight.

  1649. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Thanks Ghost.

    Not sure why the Cubs and for that matter the other Chicago team feel the need to rebuild.

    The NL Central is potentially weaker as things stand now. The Cubs pitching staff ranked near the bottom with a 4.33 ERA, worse only by the Astros and Rockies.

    The Reds are still short a closer. The Brewers potentially lose Fielder and now Braun for the 1st 50 games. The Astros are still the worst team in the league. The Pirates aren’t there yet. The Cardinals gain Wainwright and Beltran but lose Pujols.

    With some key additions at 1st, 3rd, and a corner OF’er, the Cubs could compete in that division. Trading Garza basically throws in the towel for the upcoming season unless one of the Tiger pitchers in the trade is Scherzer , Fister or Porcello.

  1650. Yank 97 December 31st, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    “Was told again this morning: #Cubs and #Tigers are very close to a Garza deal.”

    Assuming they don’t give up anything from their MLB roster, they would have a sick rotation. Not good for us with all those power RHPs. Should win that division easily again.

  1651. 108 stitches December 31st, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    I could live with this roster [provided] Burnett is put on an extremely short leash and doesn’t hinder the progress of the good young arms if Cashman is stuck with him for the duration of his remaining 2 years of contract.
    If it means banishing Burnett to the bullpen for slop / mop up innings, so be it.
    No more of hearing that he “thinks” he’s found the solution. Give him no more than the exhibition game schedule to see if he can repeat his mechanics.

  1652. blake December 31st, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Don’t know anything about the Scott Swaim guy….he claims he was the first to break the Pujols and Beltran signings etc…..reading back through though he also reported the Yanks bid over 51 million on Darvish and then said the Jays won the bid before news broke that it was the Rangers…….so who knows.

    Garza would make the Tigers rotation really good though……better than the Angels IMO and probably 3rd or 4th best in baseball.

  1653. Gary December 31st, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    Heading for the Bonefish for NYE dinner. I’ve heard the economy is not doing well so I will do my part to help it along. Where is MTU I was going to tell him I was getting the Dorado (Mahi Mahi) with the Pan Asain sauce. Of course first and foremost is the Bang Bang Shrimp :-)

  1654. Gary December 31st, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Happy New Year everyone

  1655. Yankee Trader December 31st, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    MTU is out hiking today.

    I want to wish all of you a very Happy and Healthy New Year filled with enjoyment and lots of Yankee further milestones.

    Maybe the Steinbrenner’s will have a change of heart, and surprise us with another good player or two! :)

  1656. J. Alfred Prufrock December 31st, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Marlins Have Serious Interest In Matt Garza
    By Zach Links [December 31 at 3:25pm CST]
    The Marlins have serious interest in Cubs pitcher Matt Garza, Major League sources tell Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Marlins’ interest was sparked after they failed to land left-hander Gio Gonzalez from the Athletics.

    The two sides are not close to a deal and the Cubs continue to speak to other clubs, including the Tigers, according to sources. The Yankees have also expressed interest in Garza, but the asking price for the 28-year-old is a stumbling block for the Bombers. The Red Sox and Blue Jays are also in on the pitcher but talks have slowed with both teams.

    Rosenthal writes that the Tigers might have the upper hand if they are willing to include right-hander Jacob Turner in a deal. Rival executives say the Cubs are desperate for young starting pitching. Meanwhile, the Marlins have more position players to offer.

    Marlins’ Class-A outfielder Christian Yelich is likely on the Cubs’ wish list and was among the players the Athletics were targeting in a possible deal for Gonzalez. Rival clubs say Matt Dominguez, Gaby Sanchez, Chris Coghlan, and Jose Ceda are among the other players Miami is willing to part with.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

    I don’t necessarily believe any of this stuff, about us or other teams. Just looking forward to Feb. 19.

    Happy New Year, folks.

  1657. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    Question…..is Montero going to be the full time catcher for the Yankees by 2014….if not what will his situation be with them when A-Rod is the full time DH by then

  1658. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    Carlos Quentin……very strange move by the WS

  1659. DaSaint007 December 31st, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    I’m done with speculation for the balance of the year.

    Happy New Year to all, and may 2012 bring you much happiness, peace, prosperity, and the bonds of true friendship and family. Appreciate each day, as tomorrow is promised to no one.

  1660. Tar December 31st, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    It’s almost midnight in Frankfurt, and just past in Istanbul. Wherever you may be I sincerly hope you have a happy and healthy New Year!

    :D

  1661. tomingeorgia December 31st, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    DaSaint,
    As much time as we spend here trying to divine the future, you’re absolutely right. Happy New Year, everyone, and hope for the best for all of us and for the whole country.

  1662. Ghostwriter December 31st, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    Happy New Year, everbody!

    Here’s wishing everybody a nice, safe, and New Year’s eve.

  1663. tomingeorgia December 31st, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Cooking up the Hoppin’ John and cornbread for a New Year’s feast. The Missus has Swedish roots, so we’ll have some pickled herring, as well. Should have some collards, too, but I won’t eat them. Any other strange dietary traditions out there?

  1664. exiledintampa December 31st, 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Happy New Year! Yankees in 2012!

  1665. spidanyc December 31st, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Gary December 31st, 2011 at 5:01 pm
    Heading for the Bonefish for NYE dinner. I’ve heard the economy is not doing well so I will do my part to help it along. Where is MTU I was going to tell him I was getting the Dorado (Mahi Mahi) with the Pan Asain sauce. Of course first and foremost is the Bang Bang Shrimp

    ———————————————————————————————-

    Bang Bang shrimp from Bonefish grill is amazing! I also highly recommend the Chilean Sea Bass.

  1666. RhapsodyInBlue December 31st, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Happy New Year everyone Knicks v Jimmer at 8 woo hoo.

    Bernstein and Gershwin tonight from the Lincoln Center.

  1667. joeman December 31st, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    be at Pasquale’s Rigoletto on Arthur Ave in about 2hrs, don’t know what I’m eating yet but it will be Veal dish with a bottle of vino….

  1668. blake December 31st, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
    The Cubs are talking to a number of teams about Matt Garza — Tigers, Marlins, etc. — but no deal is imminent. They are going thru process.
    22 minutes ago

    happy new year everyone!

  1669. jacksquat December 31st, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Quentin attended grade school in suburban Chula Vista and was a three-sport standout at San Diego’s University of San Diego High.

    He was named San Diego’s Male Athlete of the Year in 2000. He was a finalist for the Golden Spikes Award in 2003, his last college season.

  1670. hardwired7 December 31st, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Have a happy and safe NYE, fellow LoHudders. May 2012 last two rounds longer than 2011 for the Yanks.

  1671. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    WOW!! That Bluster Only is really on top of the breaking stories. That insight is seldom seen from sports writers.

  1672. Jerkface December 31st, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    DF, what was Hughes’ FB clocked at the first two-three months of 2010?

    Hughes average velocity by month in 2010 was the same. From 03-06 it was 92.5, from 07-10 it was 92.5. He didn’t lose velocity, but I’m sure fatigue could have affected his command and of course he didn’t really have a very good curveball. Hughes fastball is so good even at a lower velocity because of the life on it. His shoulder fatigue in 2011 robbed him of that life.

    For Hughes to live up to his lofty projections he needs to have his fastball with life (which gets more swings and misses than most starters fastballs, even those that throw harder) and a tighter curveball. He said he wanted to work on a tighter one last season after he was off the DL but it was never consistent.

    Given his repertoire I think he should use a split or a slider.

  1673. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    If the Tigers had this deal in the bag, it woulda beem consumated by now. Things just aren’t adding up, unless more than 2 teams are attempting to mix and match players. I’m guessin’ Theo is trying to maximize his return on Garza by going the 3-Way route.

  1674. Joe from Long Island December 31st, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Mrs. Joe and I are heading out to friends for dinner.

    I’d like to wish you all a happy and safe New Year’s Eve, and a happy and healthy 2012.

    Cheers!

  1675. blake December 31st, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    I don’t see the Tigers needing starting pitching enough to include Turner……if they do then it suggests that they are really loading up for the present to try and win a title…..which really seems unnecessary given that pretty much all their key guys are locked up

  1676. DONNYBROOK December 31st, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    When you look at the Tiger’s opposition in the AL Central, they gotta cake walk in 2012. To part with one of their top minor league Chucker’s with a 2012 playoff spot currently in their back pocket is dumb.

  1677. NYYanksFan December 31st, 2011 at 8:03 pm

    I heard this and I thought someone with an idea instead of a complaint.

    How do the Yankees lower payroll? Extend a contract. Give A-Rod a 5 year extension but do it at $1M per year. Lowers AAV of contract to 11/$153 instead of 6/$148.

    Don’t know if Selig could veto it but it showed creativity.

  1678. blake December 31st, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    Buster Olney Buster_ESPN

    @

    Tigers have made it known to other teams that they are willing to trade Jacob Turner in a deal for the right pitcher. That’s a big piece.

    Turned is probably a better prospect than anyone who has been dealt this winter.

  1679. blake December 31st, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 52m #rangers $51,703,411 bid is tribute to nolan (No. 34), darvish (11). to sign him, yu camp said to seek $65M/5 minimum

  1680. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    so if you added the posting fee to that ‘minumum’ then it would cost the team an aav of $23.2M, which is MORE than the aav on cc’s contract.

  1681. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    It would make as little sense for Detroit to trade Turner and others for Garza as it would make to trade Banuelos and others. Turner is 20 and has MLB playing time. If he’s as good as they claim and that near ready, stick him in the rotation or bullpen for a month or two. With that offense, he should at least be a .500 pitcher.

  1682. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Darvish as a $23.4 mil a year rookie? Not likely.

  1683. blake December 31st, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    “so if you added the posting fee to that ‘minumum’ then it would cost the team an aav of $23.2M, which is MORE than the aav on cc’s contract.”

    Crazy……the Rangers would have likely been a better team trading for Garza and then using all that money to sign Fielder.

  1684. Ys Guy December 31st, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    blake, gb7, happy new year guys, its been my pleasure to interact with you guys this past year once again.!

  1685. Stoneburner December 31st, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Take it for what it is – but he had the Turner info way before the other guys:

    MLBInsideNews Scott Swaim
    I have consistently heard Mark Trumbo connected to the #Rays.
    54 minutes ago

  1686. blake December 31st, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Y’s,

    same to you and everyone else! Happy new year!

  1687. Red Robin December 31st, 2011 at 10:16 pm

    Another new post today from PeteAbe –

    ” Expect a big, big 2012 for the Sox “

  1688. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 31st, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    To all of my wonderful compadres. Happy New Year! I hope everyone is celebrating safely and happily. As for me, we just got in and I am happy to turn on some television and call it a night. I’ve never been a big New Year’s reveler anyway. Just another day and night to me.

    See ya next year, ha ha. (I will ignore any remarks about how happy you will be not to have to see me for another yea, etc.)

    :)

  1689. GreenBeret7 December 31st, 2011 at 11:55 pm

    John Sickels has pared his yankee prospects list from 41 to the top 20. Not many surprises…maybe Phelps over Warren the biggest.

    http://www.minorleagueball.com.....s-for-2012

  1690. Kevin Not That Kevin Brown January 1st, 2012 at 12:19 am

    Have you all seen this? Yahoo has picked a dozen “breakthrough” athletes for 2012, including one of our own – at least, i think that’s who they mean by “Jose” Montero. Unless he changed his name during the off-season, that’s kind of embarrassing, no?

    Happy New Year, everyone.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/top/ne.....012-123011

  1691. jacksquat January 1st, 2012 at 1:12 am

    NYYanksFan December 31st, 2011 at 8:03 pm
    I heard this and I thought someone with an idea instead of a complaint.

    How do the Yankees lower payroll? Extend a contract. Give A-Rod a 5 year extension but do it at $1M per year. Lowers AAV of contract to 11/$153 instead of 6/$148.

    Don’t know if Selig could veto it but it showed creativity.

    That would look good for his current contract years, but the 5 extended years you would have the AAV counted against the payroll when he is not playing, and that would be on top of whatever his replacement (in the lineup) was getting paid. It’s robbing Peter to pay Paul.

  1692. jacksquat January 1st, 2012 at 1:16 am

    blake December 31st, 2011 at 8:42 pm
    “so if you added the posting fee to that ‘minumum’ then it would cost the team an aav of $23.2M, which is MORE than the aav on cc’s contract.”

    Crazy……the Rangers would have likely been a better team trading for Garza and then using all that money to sign Fielder.

    They still could, they don’t have to give Yu a contract. And that might be good in a way because it might force a renegotiation of the posting system. I think there is a fair chance Yu refuses to sign for the Rangers top offer. There is really no way for the contract to make sense for the Rangers with that posting fee bid, and it’s their own fault.

  1693. CompassRosy January 1st, 2012 at 3:23 am

    Not sure this will work but, I’ll give it a shot…

    Happy New Year from Seattle, Yankee fans!

    http://tinyurl.com/75d3qoa

  1694. MDD2 January 1st, 2012 at 5:11 am

    Happy New Year!

    Morning fluff… Derek and Minka in Paris — the pics.

    http://nyp.st/ul5y7R

  1695. MTU January 1st, 2012 at 6:34 am

    Happy New Year.

    I must be getting soft. Didn’t even get drunk last night.

    Anyway, I hope the Mayans were wrong about 2012.

    ;)

    Gary-

    Saw your note about the Dorado. Hope you saved some for me. Sounds like a great place to eat.

    Have a healthy, happy, and prosperous New Year.

    :)

  1696. Carlo January 1st, 2012 at 7:49 am

    Here’s to hoping ‘sports’ has a far more productive 2012 than he/she did 2011.

  1697. blake January 1st, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Happy New year!

    Just read through Sickel’s rankings……don’t have too much of an issue with the order but so think he sells Banuelos a little short……I think folks underate his upside……if he puts its all together he’s got front of the rotation ability…….would it be the worst thing in the worldwide if he became a solid #3……….no……and maybe that’s the most realistic scenario …..but he’s got more upside than that IMO

    Mason Williams and little Dante have certainly turned some heads

  1698. Trigeminal Neuralgia Yank January 1st, 2012 at 8:43 am

    Happy 2012
    My dream is for a new post before spring ;)

  1699. GreenBeret7 January 1st, 2012 at 8:54 am

    A lot of people are going to miss the boat if they sleep on the talents of Tyler Austin, especially that bat. He very well could show a Paul O’Neill type of line drive power with better speed from the right side. Could possibly fill any of the 4 corner spots. Two weak spots in the system is going to be left handed power hitters and outfielders.

  1700. Stoneburner January 1st, 2012 at 9:24 am

    blake January 1st, 2012 at 8:24 am
    Happy New year!

    Just read through Sickel’s rankings……don’t have too much of an issue with the order but so think he sells Banuelos a little short……I think folks underate his upside……if he puts its all together he’s got front of the rotation ability…….would it be the worst thing in the worldwide if he became a solid #3

    ********

    At this point – the way people have made him untouchable – yes it would possibly be a significant set back. Additionally – same goes for Montero if he does not reach his potential. There is risk involved with everything – but these two kids do need to reach their potential or else it is a significant set back – not going to suger coat that one.

  1701. J. Alfred Prufrock January 1st, 2012 at 9:27 am

    If you’re going to have an “honorable mention” section that includes big upside low A guys, I can’t see how you don’t have Anderson Feliz on your list. Raw, yes, but in terms of toolsiness and projectability, I don’t see how this kid doesn’t warrant even a mention.

  1702. Tar January 1st, 2012 at 9:37 am

    “Unless he changed his name during the off-season, that’s kind of embarrassing, no?”

    Yeah not only did they get his name wrong twice, they pronounced him a “failed catcher”. That is just embarrassing to Yahoo. Written by Yahoo Sports staff so I guess everybody there deserves the scorn.

  1703. pat January 1st, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Happy New Year LoHudders.

    Ron Guidry days until pitchers and catchers!

  1704. J. Alfred Prufrock January 1st, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Tar, I think the “failed catcher” thing can be chalked up to them confusing Jesus Montero with Jose.

    Oh, wait…

    If you believed some here who appoint themselves guardians of expectation management, it was going to be “optimistic” for Jesus to hit “.270″ when he was called up last summer ;) .

    Jesus is such a stud, I can chuckle instead of bristle when stupid people open their mouths wide to dismiss him, be it bat or glove. Jesus gives a fan that “kid at Christmas” feeling all year long :D .

    Happy New Year to all.

  1705. Tar January 1st, 2012 at 10:45 am

    J. Alfred

    For somebody like me who reads this blog a lot (and gets to some minor league games), I have come to realize that I know a lot more about this team and its minor league players than a lot of so called professional’s do.

    For that I want to thank you and all who contribute in helping me be a better, more knowlegable fan.

    That Yahoo piece even though its small, should be very embarrassing to them.

  1706. Giuseppe Franco January 1st, 2012 at 10:50 am

    According to some here, Montero IS a failed catcher.

    He’d better learn to play RF or 1B because he has no chance to be a catcher in this league.

  1707. RadioKev January 1st, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Happy New Year!

    I think Sickels rankings are interesting. I think ranking Banuelos/Betances in the Bs is fine. Their command issues are a cause for concern, you can’t assume they’ll both just figure it out. They might or not might.

    Bichette Jr is enjoying a great ranking on this list..

  1708. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 11:02 am

    interesting discussion on this mornings “On the Media” on WNYC about online comments:

    http://www.onthemedia.org/2011.....-comments/

    basically the two worst ways to deal with the problems are: 1) don’t monitor (current policy here) and 2) moderaters who make incendiary comments (pete’s way)

  1709. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 11:03 am

    i thought being the first and 1500 commenter on one blog post was an oddity not likely to ever be replicated on this blog, but it’s starting to look like i could be the 2000th as well…

  1710. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:04 am

    - PROJECTED 2012 YANKEE HR LEADERS -

    (1) CANO – 40 HRS

    (2) A-ROD – 36 HRS

    (3) GRANDY – 35 HRS

    (4) TEX – 32 HRS

    (5) MONTERO – 31 HRS

    (6) SWISHER – 23 HRS

    (7) MARTIN – 21 HRS

  1711. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 11:16 am

    i like your enthusiasm and all of those #’s are achievable individually, but i’d be willing to bet heavily that the total for that group, 218 will not be achieved.

  1712. austinmac January 1st, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Gavin Floyd is likely available according to a Chicago paper. He is a solid if unspectacular pitcher.

    The Yankees’ rotation is not ranked in the top ten. It may not be considered a top fifteen rotation.
    That is a problem that all the board’s optimism doesn’t overcome. We must realize others do not rank the Bs as top prospects. Prospects, yes, but with significant command issues.

    Garza, Kuroda or Floyd need to be added to give some stability to the rotation.

  1713. m1kew January 1st, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Either Monday or Tuesday Chad will be back … it’s almost like anticipating the first day of Spring training :)

  1714. 86w183 January 1st, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Happy New Year to all Lo-Hudders

    Hope 2012 is a great year for one and all…. and the Bronx Bombers!!

    Speaking of 2012, it appears we’ll have to post 2,012 comments before a new thread will be posted.

    My New Year’s Resolution —- the make a prosed Felix Hernandez trade every day!

    Noesi, Warren, Nunez, Garcia and Laird for Felix and Figgins

  1715. m1kew January 1st, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 11:16 am
    i like your enthusiasm and all of those #’s are achievable individually, but i’d be willing to bet heavily that the total for that group, 218 will not be achieved.

    Same group – over or under at 190 home runs?

  1716. Giuseppe Franco January 1st, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Optimism certainly overcame the dynamite Red Sox last season.

    It doesn’t matter where other people rank Yankee prospects.

    Ivan Nova wasn’t exactly rated up there with the best of the young arms and he helped this team win a lot of games last season.

  1717. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 11:25 am

    m1kew, i’d go over but i dont know if i’m just being suckered by the promise of arod like last year ( i had him 14th on my fantasy draft board last year) :)

  1718. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:31 am

    I believe my most optomistic projection is Martin’s 21 HRs. The others are very attainable. If Trumbo can hit 29 HR’s, I figure Montero with that opposite field power stroke should be good for 31 HR’s with 81 games shooting at that short porch .Grandy in that Honey Hole 2 Slot in front of Cano should have no trouble swatting 35 HR’s. ALL the numbers I listed above are Very attainable.

  1719. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 11:32 am

    austin, this team won the most games in the league, then got good pitching in the division series. if you want to say the pitching is in the bottom half of the majors, id have to say you’re wrong there.

  1720. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:36 am

    - Y’s -
    In my Fantasy $$$ League, I’m gonna aim for that Toronto 3B in the Auction Draft. A-Rod is just too big a gamble, and that Toronto 3B is a flat out monster. I forget the rookie’s name, but the guy is gonna be an offensive anchor on my team.

  1721. dogface January 1st, 2012 at 11:36 am

    My New Year’s Resolution —- the make a prosed Felix Hernandez trade every day!

    Noesi, Warren, Nunez, Garcia and Laird for Felix and Figgins

    ==============================

    If you can do it AND be hysterical at the same time, like you have with this proposal, then I’m looking forward to this.

  1722. dogface January 1st, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Donnybrook:

    I believe you speak of Lawrie.

  1723. dogface January 1st, 2012 at 11:38 am

    But if he’s the offensive anchor of your fantasy team, you’ll be in for a long year.

  1724. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 11:43 am

    brett lawrie. i had thier 3bman last year, bautista in the lohud league, that was a great pickup. i very likely wont draft arod, i wont have him in the first 40 players on my board this year. once bitten…

  1725. RadioKev January 1st, 2012 at 11:44 am

    I’ll take the under on the Cano 40 HR prediction. I’m not sure what suggests he would do that.

  1726. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:46 am

    - DOG -
    That’s the guy. Thanks

  1727. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 1st, 2012 at 11:48 am

    “Bernstein and Gershwin tonight from the Lincoln Center.”

    Rhapsody, thanks for the heads up! It’s being repeated today so I will be DVRing it. I got to tune in to the end of it and they were playing your song!!! Talk about magificent composers. NY turns out the best of everything. :)

    “Anyway, I hope the Mayans were wrong about 2012.”

    MTU, I am giving this the same amount of attention that I gave to the Y2K predictions, when we were supposed to stock up our cupboards with food and water and hide – or something.

    I didn’t.

    I am planning on going 2 for 2.

    I think it’s stupid and bizarre that anyone would even pay attention to something so ridiculous. Totally coincidentally, I just cancelled my annual holiday trip to the Yucatan peninsula.

    :lol:

    :D

  1728. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:50 am

    - DOG -
    I usually have 3 offensive achors covering All the offensive scoring categories, and then 2 Stud SP’s on the pitching side. We will see about Lawrie. I just hope the rest of my league regards him as you do. I will get Lawrie on-the-cheap\$$$ if that be the case.

  1729. austinmac January 1st, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Ys guy,

    The top ten AL staffs were recently ranked by Olney, I believe. They were not in the top ten,

    The rotation:

    1. CC-top quality with reasonable expectations of 18 or more wins;
    2. Nova-one good year in which he outperformed his peripherals;
    3.Hughes- has not pitched well in the rotation since early 2010;
    4. Garcia- cross your fingers, but again his peripherals were not great;
    5. Burnett- ERA over 5.

    I have been an avid fan since 1960, but that does not make me confident of the rotation. It could go south very easily too many question marks. That is why Cashman said pitching, pitching pitching.

    It seems to me a pennant contender should have at least two quality, dependable starters.

  1730. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:55 am

    - RADIO -
    Cano is still improving offensively, is gonna bat All season outta the 3 Hole, and will have a rejuvinated -A-Rod batting behind him. To me, that gives Cano a legitimate shot at 40 HR’s.

  1731. tucker January 1st, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Good to see David Phelps rank well on that prospect list. I’ve never seen Warren pitch, and generally people like his potential/stuff better. I was able to see Phelps pitch a couple of times in the Arizona Fall League, which is an extreme offense league. Phelps moved the ball in and out, challenged hitters and had a very competitive demeanor on the mound. I think he’ll be a useful, if not great,, MLB starter. Certainly the type of MLB-ready starter the Sox lack in their system.

  1732. RhapsodyInBlue January 1st, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Tricia, Jean-Yves Thibaudet was amazing, a really great concert definitely worth watching.

    I had the Knicks on in the small picture watching both simultaneous with pip.

    Happy New Year.

  1733. BIG AL January 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    A-Rod should come into ST in very good shape, given all the workouts his new girl friend must be putting him through.

  1734. RadioKev January 1st, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:55 am
    - RADIO -
    Cano is still improving offensively, is gonna bat All season outta the 3 Hole, and will have a rejuvinated -A-Rod batting behind him. To me, that gives Cano a legitimate shot at 40 HR’s.
    ———-

    Because Cano bats in front of A-Rod he’s going to hit 11 more HRs than his career high? I get he might get a few more pitches to hit, but that seems far fetched.

    And is Cano actually improving?

  1735. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Gotta wonder just how good this great Tiger Minor League SP is, if they are trumpetting that they Will trade the guy. Anything of serious value does not warrant a “for sale” sign being hung on it. It sells itself on reputation alone.

  1736. BIG AL January 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    If one is to have any faith in the story posted by GB7 earlier, then all our hopes of the “B’s” being the super star SP of the future for the Yankees may be nothing but hype and wishful thinking on our part.

    If the Yankees brass feel the same way as the ratings, don’t be surprised to see one of them offered in a trade deal before ST starts.

  1737. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    ““Bernstein and Gershwin tonight from the Lincoln Center.”

    …and manning and romo at ‘the met’!

  1738. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    A wonderful New Year to you also, Rhapsody. In terms of things we take for granted, I grew up in a house where one of my sisters played the piano (really a prodigy of sorts) and grew up to be a concert pianist among other things. Because her playing was commonplace to us, having to listen to her practice hours every day – and hating it for the most part – I could never really have a lot of objectivity about her talent. Now when I think about it I realize how incredibly talented she is.

    One of the many pieces she had committed to memory was the Rhapsody in Blue. I cannot wait to tune in to the concert once it’s DVRd. Listening to the Rhapsody in Blue in its entirety I’m sure will really bring me back and give me renewed appreciation. And as an aside – and certainly not a minor one! – what a master George Gershwin was. Such INCREDIBLE talent. Ira also.

  1739. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 1st, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    “…and manning and romo at ‘the met’!”

    :D

  1740. DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    - RADIO -
    I think Cano has a ways to go until he reaches his offensive ceiling. Girari also needs to rest Cano more. By mid Aug, Cano is running on fumes. Putting up those kinda numbers while on fumes is Very impressive at Cano’s age.

  1741. Ys Guy January 1st, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    I’m already getting geeked for tonight’s game!

  1742. RhapsodyInBlue January 1st, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Tricia, To think Gershwin wrote RIB at age 24. An American genius who died much too soon.

    I love rock grew up in the 60s but also the classic American composers, Bernstein, Gershwin, Coplan, Rogers and Hammerstein. Great stuff.

    I’m afraid my Cowboys aren’t up to the task tonight.

  1743. RhapsodyInBlue January 1st, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Sorry for the spelling mistake Trisha, I have a dear neice Tricia.

  1744. RadioKev January 1st, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Donnybrook,

    I don’t know about that. First, Cano is a second half player. Over his career, he’s dipped in August, but his August is still better than his April or May.

    Second, Cano’s slashline this past August was .345/.377/.637. And in his career, Sep/Oct combined is his second best period July, by a hair.

    Where’s the proof other than your opinion he’s still got a ways to go? He’s 29 and he’s been remarkably consistent in his career. He could increase his patience a bit, but I think he is what he is at this point, which is great. I just don’t see why you’d insist he’s about to hit 40+ HRs.

  1745. spidanyc January 1st, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Jeremy Kerley is a better QB than Mark Sanchez.


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