Rodriguez ‘fine’ after procedure in Germany; Okajima added
Posted by: sports - Posted in Misc on Dec 28, 2011 
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Some Yankees news, courtesy of The Associated Press:
NEW YORK — The Yankees say star third baseman Alex Rodriguez is fine after having special treatment on his right knee and left shoulder in Germany earlier this month.
The 36-year-old Rodriguez had plasma-rich platelet injections following a recommendation from Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant. Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said today that the team gave its permission after vetting the process.
Rodriguez’s treatment was first reported by the New York Post.
Cashman says Major League Baseball and WADA have approved the procedure, and that it is also performed in the United States. The Yankees say Rodriguez went to the doctor in Germany because he’s at the top of this field.
Rodriguez had surgery on his right knee last July and saw his power drop in the second half and postseason. He played in 99 games and hit 16 home runs. He has 629 career homers.
Cashman says Rodriguez is “100 percent” right now and that there are “no red flags” going into spring training. Cashman says he expects Rodriguez to be able to play every day.
The Yankees also said they’ve reached agreement with 37-year-old lefty Hideki Okajima for a non-roster invite to spring training. Once a staple of the Boston bullpen, he spent most of last year in Triple-A for the Red Sox. The Yankees envision him as a possible lefty specialist.
i feel like i just woke up and got out of the shower, all clean and fresh…
36? 37?
Who is “sports”
Posted by ‘sports’ ? What happened to Chad’s buddies ? ?
Alex about to have a Colon first half at the very least?
‘The Yankees envision him as a possible lefty specialist’.
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Does this mean he is headed down the path of Marte and Feliciano ? ? Nothin lost on a flyer ml deal I suppose.
It is difficult as a Yankee Fan to have to acknowledge we are picking up a Red Sox castoff / scrub. Here’s to hoping Cabral beats him out.
Cabral is also a Red Sox Castoff From the rule 5 draft.
non roster invitee…’nuff said…
If a guy can help the Yanks win ballgames, I couldn’t care less where they’ve come from.
agreed
So was Wade Boggs, Roger Clemens, etc
boggs was good….
damon and sparky lyle were good…
& Damon!!!
clemmens was….well, clemmens was a roid ragin’ lying sack of crap, but her performed well…
Some dude named Ruth sort of helped get this whole Yankee thing rolling…
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....at-of-2011
Some writer writing that Crawford is the GOAT of the year.
I didn’t mind a few Boston castoffs named Babe Ruth, Sad Sam Jones, Herb Pennock, Red Ruffing, Sparky Lyle, Roger Clemens or Wade Boggs. Those guys won’t match my list, but, if they help win 2 or 3 games each, they’re worth it.
…guy named ruth….bet he got a ton of crap about that growing up….LOL…like ‘boy named suu!”
sorry i think its actually suh…
Clemens, Ruth, Damon and Boggs weren’t scrubs when they came to NY. Okajima is a scrub / castoff.
clemmens, ruth, damon and boggs also werent non-roster invitees with no guarantee of even making the team
CHoooooooooooooooooooooo-kajima.
Uhg.
Heyman, as always is a jerk.
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
#yanks had their dr. & mlb involved. german dr. assured no banned substances. so nothing shd go wrong. of course, it is arod
I didn’t say they were scrubs and neither did anyone else. In fact I made that point. these guys are minor league fillers unless they’re effective and needed. get that wad of crap out of your diapers.
Cashman says Rodriguez is “100 percent” right now and that there are “no red flags” going into spring training. Cashman says he expects Rodriguez to be able to play every day.
___________________________________________________________________________
Like to think that is the case, but I’m not sure. There are so many issues with the human knee and other issues that develop as a result of the procedures used to go in there and repair it. Sometime it gets chronic especially if arthritis sets in. Given the wear and tear of a daily baseball player, I think it will be a nag to him given all the demands put on them running, hitting, and fielding. Hopeful he can make it through the season without any reoccurances, I doubt he can be out there everyday. He may well need a day off often.
No kiddin gramps ?
Gary December 28th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Good points and just think how many more years we get to think those same thoughts.
Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
No kiddin gramps ?
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Idiots like you make it sound like they’re replacing Robertson and Rivera. Not every player NYYs pick up is great and they’re not all trash. Hell, on here, if they aren’t stud superstars, jerks act like they’re useless.
I think the appropriate line is external sources to heal a body is difficult. If an athlete has an objective injury such as a tear, why should it be wrong to inject the area with whatever promotes healing? Medicine regularly puts such things into our bodies? Wouldn’t such an injection only affect the injured area? It wouldn’t seem an unfair advantage to strengthen a cartilage so it can fully perform.
I recognize some will try to stretch the point and claim many drugs for many reasons, but why restrict medical science from doing what it takes to fix an injury?
I may be way off and would listen to anyone setting me straight.
Cashman building depth and options for that lefty specialist. What’s not to like about a minor league deal with an invite to ST.
I care less where he came from. If he makes the team, great. If not, no harm no foul. Is he Sean Marshall? No, but he just got traded, so obviously we didn’t fit as trade partners.
Next.
Lokk into the mirror really hard gramps. You are nothing here but another poster. One who has no life living in front of his keyboard 24/7.
sb.. Look….oh well.
Okijima hasn’t been good since his 1st year with the sox. I wouldn’t even expect him to make the team, he’s below average at best. Not even looking at his numbers, every time I saw him in his last year with them he was getting pounded. The league caught up to his weird/deceptive delivery. Maybe he can be a LOOGY but I doubt it.
I say give Manny B. his innings in AAA and by August he can be the Loogy for the stretch run. In an ideal that’s what I’d like.
Idiots like you
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Oh the hate this guy brings…
the internet tough guy…
Okajima seems to have had more than a good rookie year. He’s had one bad season, unless you care to count his 7 games last year. Of course, on here, small sample sizes carry a lot of weight.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 4m Josh Reddick goes to Oakland as part of this deal.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 4m The Red Sox have acquired Andrew Bailey from Oakland… Details to come.
What the heck Beane
Buster_ESPN
The Red Sox have acquired Andrew Bailey from Oakland… Details to come. Josh Reddick goes to Oakland as part of this deal.
Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Lokk into the mirror really hard gramps. You are nothing here but another poster. One who has no life living in front of his keyboard 24/7.
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yet, here you are again..with yet another SN, but, I have no life?
mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
the internet tough guy…
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Nothing new, being alone brings out the best in some……….:-)
Better be more than Reddick going
Mike_Boston December 28th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
Okijima hasn’t been good since his 1st year with the sox. I wouldn’t even expect him to make the team, he’s below average at best. Not even looking at his numbers, every time I saw him in his last year with them he was getting pounded. The league caught up to his weird/deceptive delivery. Maybe he can be a LOOGY but I doubt it.
I say give Manny B. his innings in AAA and by August he can be the Loogy for the stretch run. In an ideal that’s what I’d like.
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How is Banuelos working out of the bullpen in the minors going to prepare him to start?
he likes to dish it, but runs and hides when he gets dissed, take it as a compliment he lowers himself to talk to you, he’s internet royalty, a legend in his own mind. the internet enforcer, bah humbug!
I say give Manny B. his innings in AAA and by August he can be the Loogy for the stretch run. In an ideal that’s what I’d like.
–
I’d rather our top pitching prospect and supposed next ace not be brought up as a LOOGY
Well, Bailey makes them better. I doubt he’ll be as good as Papelbon was for them. Papelbon couldn’t get out Gardner and blew the last nail in the coffin game, but he was very good for them in the postseason.
Never have addressed you ever, until you started in today with your foul attitude, calling people idiots.It must be unfortunate to be in your shoes, luck of the draw huh ?
BTW, only one screen name for this poster. Act your age now, not your shoe size.
Bosox compiled relievers last off season as well, where did that get em?
Better be more than Reddick going
————————————
I would think the A’s would at least want a pitcher back in return.
Did anyone mention El Tiante-Luis Tiant?
If you don’t want to be called an idiot, don’t be one.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 1m Ryan Sweeney to the Red Sox as part of the Bailey deal.
There has to be more than Reddick going in this deal.
JonHeymanCBS #cubs seem to be prioritizing young starting pitching in garza talks. rival exec: #yankees & #bluejays have what itd take
Buster_ESPN Ryan Sweeney to the Red Sox as part of the Bailey deal.
How is Banuelos working out of the bullpen in the minors going to prepare him to start?
—————————————————–
the AAA season is over in late August, what’s wrong with letting him start there all season and call him to have a role in the BP? I didn’t say have him relieve in the minors.
Rays did that with Price, it’s pretty standard I thought.
This probably sends Madson to the Angels for half of what Papelbon got
mick December 28th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
I like the term a**clown, seems to fit.
JF, who cares how he’s bought up when it’s late in the season. Give him the ML exp, his innings would probably be close to topped out anyways by then, this way he can still contribute later in the ML season.
Madson may take a 1 year deal and try again next year.
Buster_ESPN Oakland also gets Miles Head, 20-year-old 3B, and Raul Alcantera, 19-year-old pitcher.
Hideki had 3 good years when he was signed for the 2007 season then fizzled in 2010 and pitched only 8 innings in the majors last year. Since it’s a minor league deal, no problema!
Attaching an earlier article on him and what might have caused his decline.
Is It Okie Dokie for Okajima?
January 3rd, 2011 by Mike Silver
http://firebrandal.com/2011/01.....r-okajima/
nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation
JF, who cares how he’s bought up when it’s late in the season. Give him the ML exp, his innings would probably be close to topped out anyways by then, this way he can still contribute later in the ML season
–
I would hope the Yankees care about how he is brought up, regardless of time, because they have not successfully developed any good starting pitchers and Banuelos is one of their best chances at it. Why potentially ruin our #1 pitching prospect for some crappy LOOGY job???
nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation
–
Bard to the rotation is good for the Yankees, he stinks.
theo sold his 4th outfielder high (reddick)
while cashman continues to overvalue his 4th OF (gardner)
sigh
Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation
–
Bard to the rotation is good for the Yankees, he stinks.
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OK whatever you say…..
Bard will not be able to give the redsox more than 160 innings. he’s been in the bullpen since 2009.
Id let Bard set up and Melancon throw the 7th……and sign a Saunders or.somebody for the rotation……or Kuroda
“nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation”
they also still have all their chips for Garza – Middlebrooks, Runado, Brandon Jacobs, Lavernway, etc.
Oscar Madison
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you WCYF….boy I miss him
The league really should just contract the Oakland Athletics. Andrew Bailey made .465M this past season. Sweeney was a salary dump-made 1.4M last season. Highest 2012 salaries Fuentes 5M, Balfour 4M, Suzuki 5M.
I would hope the Yankees care about how he is brought up, regardless of time, because they have not successfully developed any good starting pitchers and Banuelos is one of their best chances at it. Why potentially ruin our #1 pitching prospect for some crappy LOOGY job???
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It worked with Price didn’t it? He came up late and was used out of the BP all the way to the WS. It doesn’t have to be LOOGY, but it seems like that’s the biggest need with Mo and D-Rob, plus Sori covering late innings. They need someone to get out tough lefty’s.
If you can explain how this could potentially ruin him I’d like to hear it. Again, I’m not suggesting moving him out of the rotation for this, only when his innings are approaching the limit and/or AAA season ends.
Its always about the final analysis by a GM of the talent in a rival organization. We may feel that boston has a crappy minor league system, but evidently Bean found enough to like.
Cashman is a hoarder. And for now, I think it’s appropriate.
OK whatever you say…..
–
Bard has a career 7 ERA as a starter with a 9 bb/9. You can even look it up!
Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
OK whatever you say…..
–
Bard has a career 7 ERA as a starter with a 9 bb/9. You can even look it up!
—————————–
don’t need to you just told me
REZ12 December 28th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
This probably sends Madson to the Angels for half of what Papelbon got
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Why would Madson go to the Angels when they already have Walden as their closer??
AZ88 December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
“nice pick by the Red Sox…..moves Bard to the rotation”
they also still have all their chips for Garza – Middlebrooks, Runado, Brandon Jacobs, Lavernway, etc.
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If the Yanks really want Garza, they can easily top this package. Theo should know this better than anybody.
joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
That would be a no. I like alot of his baseball thoughts. Where has he been?
If you can explain how this could potentially ruin him I’d like to hear it. Again, I’m not suggesting moving him out of the rotation for this, only when his innings are approaching the limit and/or AAA season ends.
–
It can ruin him by turning him from a starter pitching on a schedule to a reliever pitching at Girardi’s whim, it can turn him into a reliever permanently because the Yankees have no clue how to handle this kind of transition its clear. Banuelos needs 150+ innings in the minors next year. He needs to start.
The Yankees tried swapping back and forth in the BP with Joba and Hughes and it sucked. I want them to try something different. Especially for someone that isn’t a typical pitcher. Manny is a smaller guy, who hasn’t thrown a lot of innings, let him start.
Billy Beane is dumb
This is the Boston OF after the trade:
Carl Crawford
Jacoby Ellsbury
Ryan Kalish
Che-Hsuan Lin
Darnell McDonald
Bailey is pretty good if he can stay healthy, he’s only managed to pitch half of the last 2 seasons though.
I like the term a**clown, seems to fit.
===============
it’s ok to talk about him , he’s long gone (oops now he’ll show up) likes to start up then hide,
reminds me of an old troll we used to know…
Sweeney in the OF, M.
How can the A’s ever hope to compete. Entire OF of Willingham, Crisp, DeJesus-Gone. DH-Matsui gone. Bullpen lefty Breslow -gone. Closer Bailey-gone. 18 wins from starters Cahill and Gonzalez-gone.
They have one exciting player -rookie Jemile Weeks and that’s it.
Yankee Trader December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
The league really should just contract the Oakland Athletics. Andrew Bailey made .465M this past season. Sweeney was a salary dump-made 1.4M last season. Highest 2012 salaries Fuentes 5M, Balfour 4M, Suzuki 5M.
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Unless Beane knows something about Bailey’s injuries that nobody else does, this trade seems awful. Beane always does this. He has a good talented piece and will immediately trade him away for some shiny new prospects. It’s a continual cycle that leads to 3rd place finishes in the west.
The new penny pinching Yankees need to actually hit on development with 1 of Betances/Banuelos. No silly bullpen stints or inning killing moves. Just let him pitch and actually develop a good pitcher, please.
Thanks, JF. Didn’t realize Sweeney was going to the Sox. Thought he was another jewel of the Sox system.
m December 28th, 2011 at 5:16 pm
This is the Boston OF after the trade:
Carl Crawford
Jacoby Ellsbury
Ryan Kalish
Che-Hsuan Lin
Darnell McDonald
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Probably will go Crawford in LF, Ellsbury in CF, Sweeney for the time being in RF.
I do expect Crawford to be better next year (it would be tough for him not to be even a little bit better). Ellsbury is a good player. Sweeney was a guy I always liked but he’s far from an allstar. He’ll be ok. I can kind of see him being a pain in the butt for the Yanks.
Why would Madson go to the Angels when they already have Walden as their closer??
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Because rookie Jordan Walden had 10 blown saves??
sweeny is a light hitting, defensively challenged outfielder. it’s a downgrade over reddick.
essentially it’s bailey for two unknowns
don’t get what the a’s are doing…
Unless Beane knows something about Bailey’s injuries that nobody else does, this trade seems awful. Beane always does this.
=================
Trying to measure up to the portrayal of him in the movie Money Ball which was a misnomer as they had Tejada and others.
Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
That would be a no. I like alot of his baseball thoughts. Where has he been?
———————————————–
maybe Gramps ran him out of here
It can ruin him by turning him from a starter pitching on a schedule to a reliever pitching at Girardi’s whim, it can turn him into a reliever permanently because the Yankees have no clue how to handle this kind of transition its clear. Banuelos needs 150+ innings in the minors next year. He needs to start.
The Yankees tried swapping back and forth in the BP with Joba and Hughes and it sucked. I want them to try something different. Especially for someone that isn’t a typical pitcher. Manny is a smaller guy, who hasn’t thrown a lot of innings, let him start.
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I’d counter that with Joba only having 80 minor league innings total for his career and Hughes making a huge innings leap in back to back years. Neither would be the case with Manny. I get what you’re saying, it’s good to be cautious with such a talent and he is more slightly built, but why can other teams pull it off?
Tyler,
I think there’s a better chance that Crawford bounces back than Ellsbury repeats his season. Still gives them two good players, but I wonder how Crawford and the fans will deal with the inevitable slumps that ball players go through. It’ll be a rough go if he gets off to a bad start.
you WCYF….boy I miss him
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That’s really creepy.
Jordan Walden wasn’t a lock when he pitch the 9th last year for sure
mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Unless Beane knows something about Bailey’s injuries that nobody else does, this trade seems awful. Beane always does this.
=================
Trying to measure up to the portrayal of him in the movie Money Ball which was a misnomer as they had Tejada and others.
———————————
It almost seems like he’s trying to shore up his ego by making trades like this. Trying to hit a homerun and come out looking like a genius. The thing is that he will trade off guys like Bailey but then sign Matt Holliday to a contract with the full intent of trading him at the deadline. They got basically nothing back for Holliday also… he really has been a terrible gm since those consecutive AL west crowns which can’t be all attributed to him.
LGY December 28th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
you WCYF….boy I miss him
——–
That’s really creepy.
———————————–
telling me
Because rookie Jordan Walden had 10 blown saves??
========
OK, but he also saved 32 with and under 3 ERA. Less than a hit per IP and more than a K per IP. Not bad for a rookie closer.
WCDB was banned, something that was LONG overdue.
He has since come back a couple of times only making a quick comment and that’s it.
Good riddance.
m-
I’m with you on that. I think that was Ellsbury’s career year. I also don’t think he can stay healthy like he did last year.
I actually feel kind of bad for Crawford (although he did take the money to play there). That’s a guy with a huge target on his back and he really doesn’t seem like a bad guy. He came off the best out of all of them in their collapse last year… he really owned up to his struggles unlike Gonzalez who blamed every factor possible besides himself and the team.
What is up fellas!!
Boy alot of chippiness today.
I cant remember a winter with more anxiety. Not because the Yanks arent good and havnt made a trade, but becuase we’re not used to having the Yankees act like theyr the Pirates and Royals. Where they sign a couple santas helpers and call it a day.
Not thrilled about the Bailey signing. It sure looks like they are starting the season with a lot of bullpen depth. But as my friend GB and others have pointed out. They had the same thing last year going into spring training.
The good news!!
Yankees just acquired
1. A 100% Arod the T3 model
2. A LEGIT DH in Monstero.
3. CC for life.
4. Garcia for no farm.
5. A Japanese utility guy for no prospects.
6. Jobamania for the second half sprint.
7. The Killer B’s for insurance.
8. Nunez for a full year.
9. Changing the bench and DH has made the team younger. Which is a good thing.
10. Re upt Stealth. The one cool cat in the front office.
Not bad.
Having said that. Can Cash please feed the Yankee fans with a new years gift. Just because we have toys, doesnt mean we wont like a new one.
Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
LOL! Agreed!
Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
? If one is banned how do they come back and make a comment ? Just askin.
I’d counter that with Joba only having 80 minor league innings total for his career and Hughes making a huge innings leap in back to back years. Neither would be the case with Manny. I get what you’re saying, it’s good to be cautious with such a talent and he is more slightly built, but why can other teams pull it off?
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Ok but Joba also pitched 100+ innings back to back in college + winterball after he was drafted. David Price also had a 130 inning season in college. Manny hasn’t had a full season in the minors yet. The appendectomy really hurt him. Why potentially waste a talent like him for some crappy loogy innings? He isnt going to be the elite setup guy we have Robertson Mo and Soriano. Its not a need. Dont waste Manny B on something we really do not need at all.
I’m not going to say there is a right way to develop a pitching prospect, but I just dont want to see Manny in the pen. It sucked with Joba and Hughes I wanna see something different.
Tyler,
I linked an espn story calling him the GOAT of the year. While it’s unfair to say he was responsible for the collapse (the writer doesn’t actually say that), he did fall off the cliff and he did have some unusually bad outfield play. It’s kind of sad and mean, but when you think about it, past GOATs were actually less worthy than Crawford. That’s how bad his year was.
Sorry.
11. A healthy Hughes for a change.
12. Noesi to take Burnetts spot in the rotation.
Oscar Madison December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
? If one is banned how do they come back and make a comment ? Just askin.
———
Only the name is banned. Anyone banned can come back under a different name.
He chose “West Coast Yankee.”
maybe Gramps ran him out of here
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gramps is licking trishas cookies off the screen, yum!
love his sexual innuendos
glove kills me:
Fake Peter Gammons @FakePeteGammons 1m
Andrew Bailey is not only smart, he’s sexy. There I said it. This is Peter Gammons.
SoS December 28th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Funny & True! LOL!
RayVT…..tough going here in Ct & Ma the last 6 months from the weather, Tornado,Tropical Storm, Winter Storm in Oct and that wind that came thru last night…..
m-
He definitely did perform a lot worse than that contract would expect. The thing that was most puzzling to me was the outfield play. He seemed to get to everything in Tampa… that last blooper in Baltimore that fell in front of him pretty much summed up his season. Hopefully he keeps slumping though haha!
# Jerkface December 28th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
The new penny pinching Yankees need to actually hit on development with 1 of Betances/Banuelos. No silly bullpen stints or inning killing moves. Just let him pitch and actually develop a good pitcher, please.
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Won’t be easy remember this is the same ball club that wasn’t going to “mess up” Hughes like they “messed up Joba”
“11. A healthy Hughes for a change.
12. Noesi to take Burnetts spot in the rotation.”
unfortunately, I wouldnt bet on either of those things lol
Hey mel. Good to see you. Thoughts on where Howard ends up? How lucky are the Lakers that
Lopez broke his foot? There were rumors that it was a for sure thing that Howard was headed to the Nets in a couple days before Lopez got hurt.
Would you do a Gasol and Bynum for Howard?
Giuseppe Franco December 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
Don’t know that computer stuff that well. TY
I wouldn’t bet against Noesi taking AJ’s spot.
joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
WOW! You need to come South to the Carolinas! It has been unusually warm here.
Are the Red Sox now maxed out and finished?
Buchholz, Bard, Beckett, Lester, Miller, Aceves in the starting rotation[ one of last 2 go back to relief.]
Has the competition for Kuroda’s services now come down to one team?
Play for the Yankees for less or go back to Japan and play for a lot less?
mick December 28th, 2011 at 5:31 pm
That is not a pretty visual.
The new penny pinching Yankees need to actually hit on development with 1 of Betances/Banuelos. No silly bullpen stints or inning killing moves. Just let him pitch and actually develop a good pitcher, please.
————–
Yep – no longer is it a luxury for them to hit on them. They have to have one of them become a stud too.
Gotta get under the $178 threshold by 2014 or the franchise will have to be contracted and moved to San Antonio….
RayVT December 28th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
WOW! You need to come South to the Carolinas! It has been unusually warm here.
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I would but wife won’t…..
It’s a long season and the best SP the Yanks have at the end of the year will be lined up to start 1 thru 3 in the Post Season unless of course 4 SPs look great!
Fair enough JF…
He chose “West Coast Yankee.”
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How original. Almost as original as me kicking out the 27 after my name(Clean record for the record. Never had my hand slapped on this blog). Just wanted to shorten it. Thought of S, but mel beat me to the letter names and did not want to make her think im a biter or anything.
Oakland had to get more for Bailey!!if not Beane has lost it. Josh Reddick is a question mark……
For all the talk about how bad the Sox are…….if they went out and signed Kuroda now their pitching staff would be very good……they still wouldn’t have a lot of rotation depth….but 1-4 they’d be as good as anybody if healthy and they have a lot more flexibility in their pen.
If I were Cherington…..Id sign Kuroda and Colon …..and put Aceves and Bard back in the pen.
Crawford-Ellsbury-Sweeney has to be the best OF in baseball defensively now if Craw can get back to his previous form
joeman December 28th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
LOL! I understand! Maybe FL then! LOL! I lived a couple years near Tampa & it was quite nice in a different way! I love the seasons albeit mild ones in the Carolinas.
Good Night Everyone!
Who cares if we get over the 178 threshold. Worse comes to worst, we can just file bk and buy all the free agents possible. The Rangers did it.
I think Burnett get traded before the season gets started and Noesi kicks the door down.
SoS-
Welcome back.
Might I add as possible good news:
Swisher playing for a new contract.
Teixeira working to regain his stroke from the left side.
and the most important to duplicate your comment-adding El Monstero to the offense!
Thanks YT! Good point. Name one x that Cashman sat on his hands and it ended up biting him in the but(Gagne. Crawford, Zito etc)? He will get us to the promise land one way or another.
If anyone sees Nicksf. Tell him its on!! California vs. my Longhorns!! For a year of bragging rights. Between Nick and myself of course. Hope they know that this game counts!!
Name one x that Cashman sat on his hands and it ended up biting him in the but(Gagne. Crawford, Zito etc
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Dan Haren
sweeny is a horrible hitter, not bad but horrible… he makes Melky’s worse season seem like mickey mantle.
Sweeny is a defensive replacement or less………
Don’t understand this deal from Oakland’s side at all……they sold low on Bailey. Beane would have been better off keeping him and trading him at the deadline……unless he was afraid he’d get hurt again. He got nothing impact in that deal……
The Red Sox making making moves to improve the team. What a concept. They have fixed their bullpen leaving Bard and Aceves to start. I bet they add another starter and put Bard back in the pen.
The Yankees are killing them with patience.
“The Yankees are killing them with patience.”
It’s ok… Phil Hughes will win 20 games, Nova will learn how to strike guys out, and Burnett still has nasty stuff.
and the most important to duplicate your comment-adding El Monstero to the offense!
///
Yup. Right up there with CC re-signing.
Bard will be the set up man…..I don’t believe for a second they’ll put him in the rotation……maybe Aceves…..but nit Bard. They’ll add a starter at some point.
Now the negatives for Boston.
1. Elf is getting shorter.
2. Youk is getting uglier by the minute and older. His body is catching up to his grill.
3. Ortiz ran out of shakes and will have a steep decline in production this year.
4. They wont have a fill in ala Redick bat over .300 this season.
5. the greatest closer to ever live is gone. said Peter
6. Valentine will get in a fight with Becket and Youk before the season is over and it will
kill team chemistry.
7. Beckett is getting LARGER and will have back problems trying to carry all that weight.
8. Elsbury wont have Ortiz shakes either.
9. Crawford will decide to look like Ortiz becuase there is no room for speed in left field. So why not?
10. They are the Sox. They will figure out a way to implode.
Let me know if I missed anything.
Unless Baileys medicals are a big concern…….I really can’t believe Beane made that deal. The Sox sold high on Reddick………..the As sold low on Bailey
Yank 97 December 28th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
“The Yankees are killing them with patience.”
It’s ok… Phil Hughes will win 20 games, Nova will learn how to strike guys out, and Burnett still has nasty stuff.
///
You’re being facetious, but these three outcomes aren’t out of the question. Hughes, like many pitchers who have had the second-year blues after first full year of starting, may be back on track. He did win 18 games, no reason why a renewed Hughes, together with a lethal lineup and a shutdown bullpen, and some good fortune, not win 20.
Nova’s added a slider, no reason he can’t whiff more hitters. Burnett is always unpredictable. He sure was nasty in Game 4.
Glass half full? Maybe. But like I said, ain’t out of the question.
Cheers, folks.
Arod is in a predicament when he has to get an infusion to help a bad knee. The last 7 years are going to create a new definition for horrible long term contracts.
Triple Short of a Cycle December 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Name one x that Cashman sat on his hands and it ended up biting him in the but(Gagne. Crawford, Zito etc
————————————————–
Dan Haren
————————————————————————————————————————-
How do you know that Cashman “just sat on his hands” on a Haren deal? How do you know he didn’t refuse to meet a ridiculous asking price? You don’t.
blake you’re 100% right. gotta be long term medial concerns
if bailey’s healthy, the a’s got fleeced. beane is not the gm people think he is.
it’s going to be hard for him to build a winner making trades like this
Yeah, look at all the players the Red Sox have picked up over the years – Smoltz, Penny, Jenks, Crawford…. We’ve seen the low risk/high reward stategy, the run prevention strategy….. And a year ago they were the undisputed champions of the off-season, a guaranteed team for the ages…..
Yeah, they were a team for the ages, all right. Just like they’re guaranteed to be a success in 2012. Just keep collecting the names.
Cant see Alex playing out the contract if his hip turns out to be Bo-ish these next couple years. He wont roll up to the plate in a wheel chair. So its either his hip has recovered or the gloves are hung.
Speaking of gloves. Watched the movie Warrior last night. Great movie!! Makes me think I can withstand someone choking me out and pounding me repeatedly. Alot like the Rocky movies.
There is absolutely zero pressure on Brian Cashman to make an effort to improve this ballclub.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Haren was not having that good of a season with the Dbacks. I believe he was giving up the long ball like it was batting practice as well. No one would have fathamed
he would get back to his old ways. Besides, there is the asking price from the Yanks and everyone else. They might have wanted the killer b’s , Montero and Cervelli. Ok not Cervelli.
“There is absolutely zero pressure on Brian Cashman to make an effort to improve this ballclub.”
Honestly, the Steinbros selling the team might be the best thing for us. They’ve become complacent and only care about making money. The Yankees have built such an empire that they don’t even need to be anything more than a team in the hunt for the playoffs to get TV ratings, licensing deals, packed stadiums, etc.
The Yanks have become like any other franchise now – just be competitive and whatever else happens is a bonus. His attachment to Hughes and Burnett and his prospects is crazy.
Bo Jackson and A-Rod had 2 different hip injuries.
Bret,
Unfortunately, this is the way they do business now. Strive for competitiveness, not excellence.
SoS,
Dude. It was a lucky break (sorry, Lopez). I’m hoping the Magic are bad this season and that Dwight will demand a trade. I would love to get rid of Bynum, but keep Gasol. Maybe, it’s better if he reaches FA.
Mark Zuckerberg will buy the NYY once Facebook goes public…. mark my words.
“if Bailey is healthy you could argue that only Mariano Rivera rates better among AL closers”
“For the A’s, it’s a fair tradeoff for a closer with a balky elbow who is about to get expensive.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....or-red-sox
Because, churning the names is all that counts. Not ability, nor talent evaluation, nor price and consequences of actions. Just churn and move the names. Like a video game for teenagers.
How do you know that Cashman “just sat on his hands” on a Haren deal? How do you know he didn’t refuse to meet a ridiculous asking price? You don’t.
—————————————–
The deal was Joba/Robertson, Nova and 2 scrubs
120 games a year from arod and the yankees would be happy?
man, that’s tough. i could see arod walk away. i really don;t think money would make a difference if he’s hitting 200 with 10 bombs in 80 games a year
In hindsight, I wouldn’t trade Robertson and Nova for Haren.
Looks like the Sux got a great deal. Once again, they will lead the AL EAST lol
Hindsight is 20/20.
Haren was not having that good of a season with the Dbacks. I believe he was giving up the long ball like it was batting practice as well. No one would have fathamed
he would get back to his old ways. Besides, there is the asking price from the Yanks and everyone else. They might have wanted the killer b’s , Montero and Cervelli. Ok not Cervelli.
—————————————————————-
Nor Montero or the killer B’s were in that deal. Actually his peripherals were pretty similar to past seasons. The home runs were an anomaly. What was more likely Haren who has been a top 10 pitcher for years all of a sudden losing it at age 28 or 29 or just a poor couple of months that were begging for a correction
In hindsight, I wouldn’t trade Robertson and Nova for Haren.
—————————————————–
It was Robertson or Joba
Arod would never walk away from his big contract. He has no honor and will collect his check while dating hot starlets.
What year was that, Triple?
Haren was a gross miscalculation of resources. They thought they had “too much” pitching and didn’t want to tie up a rotation spot and $$ in Haren when they had their sights on Lee.
In the end, the rotation collapsed after the ASB and they didn’t get Lee either. The double-whammy. When opportunities like Haren come along, you have to jump at it, not wait for the next best thing that will never come. Otherwise, you’ll end up either giving up Montero+ for the likes of Gio Gonzalez or Latos, or end up putting undeserving trust in guys like Hughes and Burnett to pitch well.
What is this team going to do with Montero if Arod needs to be DH sooner than later? They’re locking up Martin long term. That’s a given.
Even if they asked for Betances for Haren, that would still have been a fair deal
This winter, a Betances-centered deal won’t get you anything half as good as Haren.
mel,
I dont think Howard last through January let alone free agency. They know hes not coming back and will get something for him. I think it will take both Bynum and Gasol to land him. Assuming
Stearn doesnt vito it. I dont think that makes the Lakers better though. Following OKC and the Spurs this year. Last time there was a shortened season SAS won the title. Dejavu? Who do you fear this year?
Betances will be a reliever – hopefully a good one.
Bret,
Now that A-Rod’s records and stuff mean nothing because of the steroids, their investment in him isn’t nearly as significant. They’re going to have to treat it like a sunken cost and let him play 3B and when he can’t, he gets the day off.
What year was that, Triple?
————————————
2010
“Betances will be a reliever – hopefully a good one.”
Cashman called him the best pitching prospect the Yankees have ever had. He never misses an opportunity to hug a prospect.
In ST, I’m fully expecting him to say Mason Williams reminds him of Willy Mays.
Blake-
Evenin’
Please explain the A’s/Sux trade from the A’s POV ?
Kinda looks like they got screwed to me ?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ng-up.html
hope the blue jays don’t get garza
JIM BOWDEN JimBowdenESPNxm
@
The Cubs and Blue Jays continue to discuss a Matt Garza deal
Im aware that Alexs injury isnt the same as BOs. But its still a hip injury and in BOs case it never healed. If Alex continues to break down, Im telling you he wont just sit and collect checks with all the hate he will be receiving in home games. He is too sensitive to how his hometown fans think of him and no shrink will be able to help him hit the ignore button. Whos with me!
Eroc,
I almost wonder if they paid 2.5 million on Nakajima as a hedge against Arod going down with injury and the backup infielder (Nunez) being called upon to play 3b for a long stretch. I remember when some speculated that Nakajima would be dealt or that Nunez would be dealt. If both are kept, I’m suspicious about Arod’s durability in 2012 and moving forward. What a mess.
MTU,
Really can’t explain it……other than Beane is a dummy. I don’t even like the return he got for Gio that much……
Garza to the Jays would be the perfect capstone to Cashman’s off season. What a stellar 2 year long patience plan with no end in sight.
There is no need to give up both Gasol and Bynum
Blake-
Thanks for tryin’.
I don’t get it either.
Maybe there is more to it than meets the eye.
Please explain the A’s/Sux trade from the A’s POV ?
===========
3 HOF. The only team in the MLB to have their players inducted before they even play a major league game. Ask Gammons he’ll tell you.
Its us against the world. The Sox have every team as an affiliate but the pirates. We have the pirates. They will continue to get players like Schilling, Agon etc. for young HOFers.
Good grief. It never fails.
The Red Sox make a move and the usual whiners come out and piss and moan.
SoS-
You were a salesman.
What’s Crapstein’s hook ?
Does he have pictures of every GM in baseball in compromising positions ?
blake December 28th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
MTU,
Really can’t explain it……other than Beane is a dummy. I don’t even like the return he got for Gio that much……
********
That package leads me to believe that there’s just no way in the world Beane’s final demand on the Yankees was Montero + Banuelos + M. Williams + . We never here the counter offers. We’re always led to believe the other GM was being unreasonable.
If Beane is so unreasonable, how did the Nats get Gio for a reasonable package and how did the Sox get Bailey for a reasonable package?
Yet we’re supposed to believe Beane wanted us to empty the farm for Gio and we’re the one team he was being unreasonable with?
It’s BS.
Somebody is unreasonable for sure…and it’s not Beane.
We will never get Garza. 3 reasons.
1. Theo would never hand him to us.
2. He would look terrible with a but face.
3. He looks like he could be Pavanos long lost brother.
Beane had all the leverage in this thing……he didn’t have to trade Bailey and he knew the Sox had to get a closer……and that they didn’t want to pay Madson.
Makes very little sense unless he’s very afraid Bailey will get hurt again and his value nosedive.
One thing the Sox have done is trade what little bench and rotation depth they did have to replace Papelbon….with Melancon and Bailey……yet to be determined if its a net gain or not.
SoS-
You were a salesman.
What’s Crapstein’s hook ?
=====
MTU,
Yes I was.
Thats an easy question. Its the villian to be in Pirates of the Carrabean 6.
Kalish is supposed to be better than Reddick anyways. They sold high on Reddick. Imagine that.
If I had to get Garza, I’d tell Theo, Garza for any four of the following, only 2 of which can be pitchers, 1 of which has to be a catcher, and 1 has to be an infielder: Noesi, Joba, Nunez, Logan, Laird, Pena, Adams, Sanchez, Cervelli, Warren, Phillips, and Mitchell.
Montero, Romine, Williams, Banuelos, and Betances are non-starters conversationally.
baily’s also a fly ball pitcher. may not translate well to fenway
I’m sure ARod is fine.
My parents saw him at their gym in Boise, Idaho this week. Apparently he is porking a former Ms. Galaxy that is from there.
The AL East is gonna be one tough motha’.
Did anyone ever stop and think maybe Cashman is reloaded his fab 4?
Posada = Montero
Jeter = Nunez
Pettitte = Banuelos
Mo = Robertson/Bettinces(takes 2 to replace the real machine)
You cant trade them if you expect another run at dynasty.
DaSaint007
Romine should DEFINITELY be available…he’s projected as a largely defensive catcher with little pop. Absolutely no reason to hang on to him unless the Yankees anticipate a need there. With Russell Martin around and Sanchez on his way up, there is no reason to not deal Romine.
Its HIGHLY unlikely Garza could be had without making Banuelos or Betances available.
People on here need to accept that.
My opinion: Garza is not worth trading any of our top prospects for. So if Cashman can pull that off without surrendering them, kudos to him, but the odds of that are very very low.
“My parents saw him at their gym in Boise, Idaho this week. Apparently he is porking a former Ms. Galaxy that is from there.”
I pray that the infusion therapy wasn’t a result of the porking?
For all the Cashman haters and him talking up prospects, find me anything he has ever said about his own players before he talked up Montero, and Dellin?
You won’t find it, so when you start saying he is holding on to these players, maybe take a second, or hell even a minute, and think why that might be.
It could be that the Yankees right now have as much talent, both in high end and also in depth prospects they have ever had.
Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances and Manny Banuelos are the real deal, whether you don’t want to believe it or not, it’s the truth.
Dellin and Manny both had seasons that could be categorized as disappointments, yet they still were impressive in there own way, and they are both healthy. Do not be shocked if they both come fast if they fix their issues, and they are not big ones.
No, they can not pitch 180 innings next year, but the Yankees do not need them to, they need them to pitch every 5 days in the minors, and get ready to possibly help down the stretch, but more importantly, to be ready for 2013.
Behind them, Williams, Sanchez and Santana have as much talent as any other 3 players you could name for another team.
Yankee fans need to stop and smell the roses, the team is finally allowing their own talent to possibly lead them to a new wave of championships.
Until Brian Cashman says, I am not trying to sign Kuroda, I don’t believe it, he makes too much sense, again the only way I see it not happening, is if he can not dump A.J, and I think with the Lowe trade it showed that it can be done, it’s only a 2 year contract now, not impossible.
porking
======
Havnt heard that one in ages. Almost as long as humping. Did not know it was still cool to use.
That was a quality trade for Boston. They dealt one guy with one year of MLB service for a quality closer.
Only hitch is that Bailey has endured shoulder issues (or was it elbow?) over the past couple seasons, if memory serves.
Still, he can always get spells as closer from Melancon.
Clearly they are pegging Bard for a starting role.
SoS,
I like throwback options
well put Jason.
CC, Garza, Hughes, Nova, AJ would work well, allowing Banuelos another year to build up his innings and replace someone the following year.
I’d hope Theo would say Joba, Noesi, Cervelli, and Adams. All young, energetic with lots of upside. As much as I like Joba, I think he’d thrive at Wrigley, and is affordable for a rebuilding club.
It’s never uncool to use the word porking.
A-Rod played gold glove defense in 2011 so why does everyone want to take away his glove?
Lots of concern about the hip but he didn’t have that worked on in Germany so maybe it’s feeling great.
It’s never uncool to use the word porking.
=======
Thats pretty Rad. Im bringing retro back then.
Shoulder, hip, knee, thumb, groin…
See the pattern?
Question:
Does anybody know if Jose Bautista can play 3rd base ?
TIA.
Jason, I agree on most of your points, but I don’t think Banuelos is as close as many think.
He’s still young and I doubt they’re going to rush him anymore than they rushed anyone else.
Betances may be a bit further along and we know Montero will be with the big boys.
I think the main idea in Cashman’s mind is to use these guys in a trade for an elite starter if such a starter becomes available. To this point, no one has and its hard to see too many teams making one available between now and spring training. Perhaps a trade deadline deal will come to fruition, but it begs the question: what team has such a starter that would make them available? Very few come to mind.
I do, however, think it is only a matter of time before King Felix is pitching in another city. My money is on the likelihood that Cashman wants the best lot of prospects possible in case that occurs.
Or perhaps a guy like Matt Cain if SF can’t work out an extension…maybe even Lincecum, but both of those are a lot less likely than someone like Felix. This is an OPINION people, so don’t jump on me for mentioning these guys.
One thing about the Bailey trade, this is a guy with elbow problems, who has not pitched a full season the last 2, yes he has good #s pitching in games that never matter.
Say what you will about Papilbum, but he helped that team win championships and pitched in big game after big game, I would not be so fast to say this is an equal trade.
Lets see Bailey pitch in big games, and more importantly, lets see him go a season and not be shut down with elbow issues.
When you look at that, I don’t think the trade is lopsided, teams were obviously wary of him, and so what did you expect to get back from someone teams may consider a ticking bomb, with his elbow eventually giving out.
wait… but i thought that the sox had a top 5 farm system? how could they need to make trades with all of the future hall of famers waiting to put the uniform on?
Why would the cubs want a 6th inning reliever in Joba?
DaSaint,
Joba’s value is probably as low as its been in a long time.
You do know he’s recovering from Tommy John surgery, right?
Shoulder, hip, knee, thumb, groin…
See the pattern?
========
Uhhh can I buy a vowel? The only pattern I see is groin being bff with Porky.
Have a good night fellas.
I think Bailey had TJ recently. Didn’t he ?
cherington on the extra bases blog talking about bard as a starter:
“”Bard is going to prepare for spring training as a starter and we want to give him every chance to do that. We just need to see how things go in spring training. … We believe he can do it.”
translation: he’s gonna be out set-up guy.
If that was disrespectful that wasn’t my intention but Joba is a throw at this point in his career.
Jason,
I hear what you’re saying and agree with much of it. That said, While there’s going to be room in the rotation shortly (1 or 2 years) for at least 2 arms (Banuelos and Betances hopefully), there’s no way that all the others such as Warren, Mitchell, and Phelps will fit either in the rotation or the bullpen, as they’re projected as starters. Something has to give.
As far as the catching situation goes, while Martin may be set for the next year or 2 – or three, his backup can only be one of Montero, Romine, or Cervelli in the short term, with Sanchez and others as starter/backup options further down the road. Again, they have to go somewhere as there’s an excess over need.
The likes of Laird, Pena, and Adams most likely don’t have a long term role on this team, though they could be useful as utility types or even starters on some clubs (Pirates or Astros come to mind).
And Mason Williams probably goes nowhere, as he’s projected (as was Austin Jackson) to play an important role in our long-term future OF.
All that to say – somethings got to give. You’re right that we have some great talent pending, but with the residents at 1B, 2B, 3B, and CF, it seems that some of this talent will be moved for areas of need, sooner or later.
bailey had TJ while at Wagner College in 2005. he missed the first 2 months of last season with a forearm strain.
pat, I agree on ARod, although I don’t know that I’d call it “Gold Glove” defense.
I think the main idea here is this: ARod cannot be counted on for more than maybe 120 games at 3B.
They need to protect him…he may feel good now, but come August this guy is going to need to be handled with kid gloves if we want him to be around and effective for the full season.
Answered my own question. Yes. Bailey had TJ surgery in college.
Best To Ever Do It December 28th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
If that was disrespectful that wasn’t my intention but Joba is a throw at this point in his career.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not disrespectful at all. TJ surgery is no longer regarded as career threatening, and in fact is seen as almost more beneficial to the pitcher as many have become stronger due to it. So Joba could be perceived for his upside, whether as a starter (here we go again) or as a reliever. Point is, he’s talented and affordable. He wouldn’t be the focus of a trade, but could be an important element in one.
Thanks Y’s. He also had a surgery to remove bone chips after the 2010 season.
Maybe Beane sees him as an injury risk going forward ?
That would explain why he would move him for the type of haul he got.
“That would explain why he would move him for the type of haul he got.”
See for that return I think he would have been better off waiting and allowing Bailey to try and re-establish value……he coukd always trade him at the deadline.
MTU, Bailey I believe had chips removed in 10, and then missed the beginning of last season with forearm tightness. I don’t believe he ever had tj. Correct me if I am wrong someone.
The Mad Prince, I hear you on Manny, but I do believe both he and Dellin are very close, at least in terms of being able to pitch in the majors. They both have issues they need to fix, Dellin it is all his mechanics, and throwing all his pitches. With Manny it’s learning to trust his stuff, and not nibble with two strikes, he can overpower guys, but sometimes he will waste pitches when he does not need to.
In his case it’s a situation where he gained that extra power, and I don’t think last year he was comfortable in that fact and just trusting it enough. I think it is also very possible he also will get back some of his great fastball command which was also lacking a little bit last year.
Dellin it’s all about not rushing, and just repeating his mechanics, for those of us who have seen him when he’s right, it’s hard not be excited about him I don’t believe neither one of them is far from finding their grooves, might it take another full year to get there, yes it might, but with arms this talented, once they find it, it will be fun to watch.
“If I had to get Garza, I’d tell Theo, Garza for any four of the following, only 2 of which can be pitchers, 1 of which has to be a catcher, and 1 has to be an infielder: Noesi, Joba, Nunez, Logan, Laird, Pena, Adams, Sanchez, Cervelli, Warren, Phillips, and Mitchell.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
not a chance. you’d hear the phone click before you got halfway through that list.
I have a question for anyone who knows the Toronto farm system well.
Do they have anyone who is ML ready to play either 3rd or one of the corners ?
Thanks in advance if you happen to know.
Jason-
Thanks. He did have TJ in college.
the word on the A’s is that they have been assured that they will be able to move to san jose, and so beane is clearing out anybody who’s got any value now to stock up the prospect to bring up around the time they move (2014?)
“the word on the A’s is that they have been assured that they will be able to move to san jose, and so beane is clearing out anybody who’s got any value now to stock up the prospect to bring up around the time they move (2014?)”
Problem is that they’ve traded their two best chips and I don’t see that they’ve aquired any impact type player to build around……Cole is the highest ceiling guy and he’s in A ball……they got role players for Bailey. Im not quite ready to call Beane a bad GM……but at the very least he’s extremely overated.
A-Rod was with Torrie Wilson in Boise. She fits the tall and blonde requirement.
Blake-
I think maybe what they got from the DB’s for Cahill was a pretty good haul.
MTU,
The Cahill deal was the best of the 3 to me……I did like that deal
Blake-
Billy Beane = Prospects-R-Us.
alcantara is supposed to be the big pick-up for the A’s in this trade. The 19-year-old has a 2.72 career ERA over two seasons (1 season in the gcl and 1 in the NY-Penn A ball)
MTU,
I don’t know a ton about the Jays system……only that most all of their top guys are pitchers …..I don’t know of any corner infielders they have are close.
@ Saint true if the Cubs hold Joba in high regard he could be an interesting piece for them
Blake-
The Cubbies need a 3rd baseman now that Aramis is gone.
The Jays might want Garza.
How about Garza for Lawrie ?
Who hangs up first ?
Thanks for the info on Bailey having already had TJ once, well since he had it in college and he still has all these issues, really, unless he wanted him to try and improve his market value in the first half as Blake said, I think this was all Beane could hope for.
That is taking the chance that he pitches the entire first half, and maybe Beane knows how much of an issue it really is?
DaSaint I agree with you on their extra depth, those guys need to be utilized in the proper way, but I think they still have some time on their hand with them for at least another season.
I would also say, I think D.J Mitchell is a name we will all hear this year, as I think he is very likely going to be the long man, and do a good job at it as well.
I will also add Adam Warren has better stuff than he is given credit for, and should not be discounted for pitching in the rotation this coming year if A.J is still on the team. I don’t think there is a big difference between his stuff and Noesi.
great trade for Boston
They lose Papelbon and get 2 first round picks.
They add Melancon and Bailey for guys who were borderline starters at best – of course it hurts their depth – but to get 2 quality relievers without giving up a blue chip prospect or regular starter could be considered a coup.
Now… the Sox need to stay healthy. It’s a big IF… but they have improved their club quite a bit (on paper, of course) with those 2 deals.
I’m surprised Beane couldn’t do better for Bailey.
“How about Garza for Lawrie ?”
I would think the Jays given that they have a lot of pitching on the way and Lawrie is good.
Blake-
If I’m Theo I reach for Lawrie.
Maybe the Jays would move Bautista back to third and replace the corner guy.
The Jays might see Garza as a #2. He’s fairly young and proven in the AL east.
Even though I tend to agree with you would Crapstein be bold enough to ask ?
im with blake, if the jays are as high on lawrie as they seem to be (and why woulnd’t they?) they don’t need to move his bat for more pitching. they are strong long-term on pitching. the upgrade would likely be too short term for them to consider it.
I’m watching Kareem get beat up by Bruce Lee. Pretty funny.
3-way trade proposal:
Padres get: Eduardo Nunez, Brandon Laird & Corban Joseph
Cubs get: Anthony Rizzo, Noesi, Romine and Dave Phelps (Chicago native)
Yankees get: Garza
“Blake-
If I’m Theo I reach for Lawrie.”
———–
I don’t think it’s an insult to ask for Lawrie but as most of us suspect, Toronto would probably pass.
Garza is under control for 2 years and Toronto should be thinking long(er) term as well.
Sure, Toronto could surprise everyone but in a division with NY, Boston, and Tampa all still appearing to be superior at this time, they should probably be building for 2013 and beyond and hoping the new CBA will start to close the AL East gap.
Thanks for the opinion guys.
I do not know Torontos farm system well enough to know if the could/would part with Lawrie.
As you point out. If they are stacked in the minors at P then it just does not compute well.
Would the Cubbies try to pry Wright away from the Mutts ?
jed hoyer is actually the cubs gm. hard to say how much say hoyer gets but im sure theo had to give him some real power to bring him over from san diego (or was it payback for sending theo agon?)
IMO, Hoyer’s just a puppet. The Cubs wanted Theo to be their GM, but then there was the whole “this is a lateral move so give us a ton of prospects or we won’t let him out of his contract” thing from the Sox. So, then to get around it, the Cubs said, “Fine, we’ll make him the president.” And as someone said here, the Padres didn’t need much arm twisting to let Hoyer go.
Hoyer will be the least talked to GM in the game. Theo is running the show.
i think if the mets move wright its gonna be for prospects, because they are so hard-up for cash that they need more than the amount they would save over 2 years for garza over wright. (probably around $14M as opposed to getting prospects and saving $31M)
Y’s-
Thanks. I’m done trying to help the Cubs.
Can’t stand Epstein anyway.
http://www.minorleagueball.com.....s-for-2012
MTU,
here is Sickel’s take on the Jays prospects. #6 on there is the guy that I wanted the Yanks to take in the draft this year…..he fell to the 2nd round due to signability issues and the Jays took him and he signed…..
Thanks blake.
You’re right. Looks like they are pitching heavy.
AA is kind of a magician because he was able to get rid of some pretty onerous contracts.
I like the Morrow move, and his recent acquisition of the WS closer.
I’m gonna stick to worryin’ about the Yanks.
Daniel Norris, yes Blake I really wanted that lefty as well, but Dantejr had as good of a rookie season as one could have.
yes i read this morning that dante projects as a elite bat. i like the sound of that…
Does anyone have a hunch where Prince will land ?
Bichette has good genes.
His Father was a stud.
andrew bailey on the ebb blog (thanks PAbe): “On facing the Yankees:
“Going to college in Staten Island, I’ve already gotten a lot of my buddies texting me. They’re die-hard Yankees fans. It’ll be fun. I’m looking forward to it. I have a lot of friends who are Red Sox fans, also. It’ll be fun to be part of the rivalry. Me growing up in New Jersey, I know a lot about it.”
(Bailey grew up in south Jersey and was a Phillies fan as a kid.)
MTU December 28th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
Does anyone have a hunch where Prince will land ?
—
You looking to get out of the way in advance?
Two kids I have been hearing about are Tyler Austin, and Ravel Santana.
I know a little about Santana but almost nothing about Austin.
I have heard from GB and others that Austin can really stick it ?
Jack-
Even a canonball has a limited distance when fired.
He’ll come down way before the Utah border.
(I hope)
Jason,
I think the question is……coukd the Yanks have picked Norris and then still got Dante in the 2nd round? We’ll never know…….but yea Dante had a great season and seems to have justified the pick as much as any kid can do in the GCL.
Does anyone have a hunch where Prince will land”
Hopefully not Texas……the Nats seem to make sense but Rizzo basically said today that Laroche was their first baseman
i think prince ends up either in seattle or d.c.. my gut says the nats but who knows.
btw, im wearing my natinals t shirt ($1 at the thrift store) with the O crossed out
Have a good night guys (and gals).
I’m out for now.
See ya’ manana.
red sox got bailey?
cashman beaten again, not surprised. its time for a change, he doesnt have the expertise to operate in the new baseball market
Yeah they could have done that, but we will never know if he would still been on the board.
Plus the kid they drafted in the second round, I think the Yankees really like a lot.
Huge NH right handed pitcher who already knows how to pitch and once he gets to throw year round, who knows how good he will be.
Jordan Cote is his name, 6-5 215.
MTU Tyler Austin his a combined .354 between GCL and SI, he also stole 18 bases not getting thrown out once during the regular season. In 47 games he had 6 HR’s 18 doubles and two triples. 36RBI’s. He needs to work on his defense both at third or first, and also needs to walk more he had 15 of them to go with 39 k’s.
People compare him to Laird because of the defense and lack of walks, I think he might be a little more patient, and he is a better athlete.
He could be a guy in the future who might be a future outfielder, he should hit enough, that’s one thing he can do is hit.
I have not seen any professional analysis of this Baily trade but I look forward to it because it seems like Beane gave him away to the Sox. I am happy to be set straight on this given the Yankees can’t get anyone without a ridiculous overpay.
yankfan December 28th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
red sox got bailey?
cashman beaten again, not surprised. its time for a change, he doesnt have the expertise to operate in the new baseball market
————————————————————————————————————————-
You’ve been smoking some bad stuff, Junior. Exactly what was Cashman supposed to do with another closer. The bullpen is loaded now.
Ha! cashman was supposed to outbid the socks to get a 3rd (4th?) closer?
i think he meant a different kind of ‘yank’ fan…
Yanks need starters, pen, no.
Jason,
yea no argument….
“cashman beaten again, not surprised. its time for a change, he doesnt have the expertise to operate in the new baseball market”
Get used to it – this is the new way the Yankees operate
Mission to $178 in 2014!
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
hearing from folks (not a’s folks) that the a’s were quite concerned about baileys elbow. also hear some folks love alcantara
44 minutes ago
Alcantara is what in rookie ball? There must be real concerns about Bailey’s health for them to deal him for what they did…..
blake – and even if that were true, Beane couldn’t get better from ANY other team that needs a reliever?
If only our rookie ball players could land all-star closers…
And so we now officially start the ritual necessity of deifying the Boston GM.
Cherington – he’s just a genius!
When you look at this deal – it basically says that the A’s think Bailey’s arm is going to blow up.
Now that may or may not be the case. But the Sox do this frequently. And then when they start accumulating injuries during the regular season people are constantly scratching their heads over the Sox “bad luck.”
And this leaves a huge amount of pressure on Kalish to produce in RF. They are pretty down on him up there and Reddick was at least a useful alternative.
This deal is largely a financial “win” for the Sox. Remember – they are going to be much weaker at the back end of their pen than they were last season.
Trading Papelbon + Reddick for Bailey makes them a worse team.
And if Bailey’s arm doesn’t hold up – they are going to struggle to piece things together.
Gary Sanchez is the other untouchable catching prospect, not Romine.
Jason22, I concur. And you’re right, Cashman does not generally go off on his spects, and having dealt away AJack, Kennedy and even Vizcaino (regrettably), who was at low A but pegged a fast mover and a prime arm in the system, he’s not exactly gun shy when it comes to pulling the trigger if he wants someone out there.
And yes, the top three, plus Sanchez and Williams, (and yes, Ravel) need to hang around and become Yankees, not shine in other uniforms.
“blake – and even if that were true, Beane couldn’t get better from ANY other team that needs a reliever?”
yea I don’t know…..if he couldn’t then he probably should have waited…..unless as said before he just thinks he’s a time bomb health wise. I think Beane could have demanded more from the Red Sox…..as they really needed a closer and didn’t want to pay Madson what he’ll cost.
The other way of looking at this deal is that the Sox would have been much better by signing Madson compared to trading for Reddick.
They are absorbing significant risk in the deal that has to be priced in to the transaction.
Yeah it’s a shame that the Yankees never trade any high end arms in low a ball for pitchers who were third in the voting for the Cy Young.
Javy Vasquez says hi, and Vizciano does too.
Who knows how good Alcantara is but, if Bailey elbow does not hold it does not matter.
is the NY Penn league considered a rookie league? i dont thinks so…
CB,
Basically the Sox have swapped Papelbon, Lowrie, Reddick, and Weiland for Bailey and Melancon.
I agree that that’s a net loss so far……now if they use the savings to sign a legit option for their rotation and fill in some other holes then maybe that’ll change things…..but right now….the Red Sox are worse than they were last year……..and even less deep if that’s possible. I can’t imagine they’ll stand pat with their rotation though….
is the NY Penn league considered a rookie league? i dont thinks so…
–
Yes, short season rookie league
Basically the Sox have swapped Papelbon, Lowrie, Reddick, and Weiland for Bailey and Melancon.
________________________________________
more like papelbon, lowrie, reddick, and weiland for an injury challenged Bailey and 2 first round draft pics.
I would have liked to see Beane have demanded Middlebrooks along with Reddick and put Boston in a position to either overpay in the trade or overpay to sign Madson…..seems to me that he could have had that kind of leverage and failed to use it…….
Boston was never going to allow either Bard or Melancon to close……Melancon was probably acquired to pitch the 7th to be honest…..Bard will be setting up by opening day.
Or its closer to low A
sorry an injury challenged bailey, melancon and 2 draft picks
I think NYPL is between R and Low A. Prolly considered Low A?
ny penn is a short season a ball league, staten island and the brooklyn cyclones are in it. i think when you say rookie ball, you are talking about the fsl or the gcl.
the draft picks aren’t helping them for a long time…..if they ever do at all.
I think the Penn league is kinda between rookie ball and low A as far as level of competition goes….my understanding is that it’s sorta an intermediate level between the two.
This year will be so telling to see what all these kids do in the minors, and here is a name to throw out that is always connected with Vizciano.
One of the reasons the Yankees were willing to trade him was worries about his mechanics, and injuries in the future, the other was they had a kid who’s arm they thought was close to, and that Jose Ramirez.
Now he has in no way been as good as Viz, he has had his own injury worries, but he was dominant in the instructional league after the season, throwing as high as 98 out of the bull pen, and with a devastating supposedly newly discovered slider. They are going to keep him in the pen in the future, so maybe he will be a guy who can be as good as Viz might be.
J Alfred, yeah Cashman never says anything, so it’s so silly when you see these fans hating on him when he finally talks about some of these kids.
I think we all saw what Montero could be, maybe it might be wise to allow Manny and Dellin the chance as well.
Also Jackson never put up the #s that Williams did last year, they are not comparable, even if it was in SI, the kid was the best player in that league.
Santana in Right, Williams in Center, they are the future folks along with Montero, and Cano carrying them.
well, i think it all comes down to how bailey does. if he’s an adequate closer, they did fine, if he’s ineffective, especially if his forarm strain of last season turns into something more, then it becomes a terrible deal.
it’s actually classified as Class A short season
Blake,
I agree – the real issue is what they with their rotation.
That’s the crux of their off season. People aren’t seeing that.
That’s where they collapsed last season and had problems the year before.
They have no depth at all in terms of upper level minor league starters. So what they go into the season with is pretty much what they are going to have.
If they don’t take the financial savings from Papelbon and reinvest them in a significant way into their rotation, then they are going to be a worse team than they were last season and have similar structural problems.
If they go out now and sign Kuroda – that’s a major win for them. But if they don’t make a quality move like that then they are going to have taken a step back.
Perhaps Beane is just clueless. But if he’s not, then he’s pretty much saying that I can’t trust Bailey’s arm to stay intact for even half a season. Maybe in his position he’s gotten very risk averse and feels that he can’t hold onto an asset like Bailey – but if he’s being reasonable then it really suggests that he doesn’t think Bailey will stay healthy.
Relegating Jose Ramirez to the pen is premature and counterproductive; the slider gives him 3 pitches. His FB and changeup are nasty. If the Yankees pitch him from the pen in 2012, shame on them.
NY Penn league is technically short season A, but you still have to consider it lower than A-, in spite of its designation.
If Boston went out and signed Kuroda and maybe Saunders or something like that….allowing Bard and Aceves to stay in the bullpen……then they’d have a pretty solid staff.
I don’t know if they’ll spend the money to do that though…..right now their rotation is even less deep than it was last year because they’ve lost Lackey, Weiland, and probably Wakefield…..all of whom at least threw some innings for them.
Remember something else about Boston, Ellsbury is going to start costing them a lot of money in the near future.
I am not so sure they even have the money to go out and sign Kuroda.
Again Brian Cashman needs to do whatever it takes to trade A.J and sign Kuroda, it takes pressure off of Hughes and Nova, it gets rid if A.J, so that makes the bull pen better not having to worry every 5 days about getting nothing out of a start, and it gives you even more protection to not rush any of the arms.
I also think Garcia gets no respect, no he is not great, but go look at his starts last year, the guy with a few exceptions saved the Yankees arse last year.
Just because you don’t throw 90 does not mean you can’t get guys out, I still think he is going to give the team a chance to win every 5 days, and that’s a lot more than can be said for A.J.
I disagree yankeefem, he has not been productive in the rotation, nor been able to stay healthy and build strength, but the Yankees think out of the pen he can be dominant.
Sometimes you need to see what you have in a kid, and if he is not a starter, but you think he really be something in the pen, you do it.
im definitely not as down on the socks as many here are. they lost youk for a significant portion of the season, bucholz is very likely going to be healthy for the year. they have a great offense and their bullpen could turn out to be very good. Their rotation is thin, but if they get a full season out of bucholz and beckett stays healthy, they have a good chance, i think aceves will help in the rotation and there is still time to bring in someone like colon, oswalt or even kuroda and last seaon was by far the worst in lackey’s career so some comeback is to be expected.
there are several big if’s but what team doesnt have them certainly tampa does. i expect the socks to be there all the way. the health of beckett and youk may be the deciding factors of whether this team makes the PS.
“If Boston went out and signed Kuroda and maybe Saunders or something like that….allowing Bard and Aceves to stay in the bullpen……then they’d have a pretty solid staff. ”
The thing is – I think this is going to be their move to set up Bard to the rotation.
Even if that works out – they really don’t have much pitching depth across the organization. They aren’t going to be in position to absorb injuries to either their rotation or their bull pen.
This isn’t a done deal in terms of impact. Isolated it’s good transaction for them but its total value really depends on what they do with their overall strategy.
They have a number of holes to plug. And that’s what they are in the process of doing right now – plugging holes.
That doesn’t necessarily make them better than last season.
Jason, I wouldn’t say he hasn’t been productive in the rotation but that he was coming back from the 2010 injury and especially working on his breaking pitch, which was a not very good curveball until they switched him to a slider. He also had trouble repeating his delivery. I don’t know that he can’t stay healthy and/or build strength, jury is out on that. However, I do know that if his slider going forward is as good as it was in Instructs, you devalue him out of the pen. The kid has a plus changeup, and unless he is an injury risk, I would like to see him still show what he can do as a starter. After all, he is only 21 years old.
lol @ thinking andrew bailey is some huge difference maker
The last 2 seasons everyone has assumed that Boston would be healthier the following season…..while that’s technically possible…..they don’t keep having injuries by fluke…..they have a team full of injury risk and it’s showed up and cost them.
i forgot lackey had surgery. i think i was still in mouring when they announced it.
Lackey isn’t even pitching this year. That’s an improvement all by itself.
CB,
I agree…..we have to see what they do now as a follow up
One thing you can bank on with Beckett is every other year he’s plain awful, going back to ’07. Going by that pattern I’m expecting him to be a 4.20 ERA guy going on the DL multiple times.
As constructed right now….the Sox are relying heavily on Bucholtz’s back being ok and Beckett staying healthy again…..
Bard in the rotation should be interesting. Despite the velo, his fastball doesn’t move that much.
Yankeefem – Jo-Ram throws the ball effortlessly & the change is first rate. I’d be disappointed also if they’re pigeonholing him for the bullpen.
well, blake, to be fair the yankees are also an ‘injury risk’ team with several pricipal players being 32 or older. the law of averages would suggest that the socks will be healthier in ’12 but thats like predicting the # of hurricanes that are ‘likely’ to hit the east coast. there is no way of knowing…
exiledintampa December 28th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
Lackey isn’t even pitching this year. That’s an improvement all by itself.
///
Yes, it’s unfortunate
im assuming from the start that they will have a BP of melancon, bard and bailey. they can humor bard all they want but i dont think even they expect him to work out as a starter. see cherrinton’s comments from the presser tonight.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b....._bail.html
I agree about Bard’s fastball. Sox have to still be going all out for a starter.
I wonder why the rush to move J-Ram to the pen. If that slider is as good as they say it is, then it doesn’t really make sense. FB and change are just too good to waste him in the RP.
“well, blake, to be fair the yankees are also an ‘injury risk’ team with several pricipal players being 32 or older.”
Arod is pretty much the only position player….maybe Martin (and they are very deep at catcher)…Hughes I guess is a risk but they are also a lot deeper than Boston in the rotation right now. The Yankees have been much better prepared to deal with injuries the last 2 seasons than Boston has…..and that’s why they’ve made the playoffs and Boston hasn’t.
Jason22, no, I don’t think AJack has anywhere near Mason Williams’ offensive potential. Love that the bat is lefty, too. One way they’re comparable is OF defense. AJack can go get it, and so can Williams. Williams though, has a surprisingly decent arm. He’s the best OF prospect (I’ve seen live) defensively since AJack, I would say.
in the *bp*, that is…
All fair points yankeefem, but for the Yankees to put him in the pen, tells you one or two things, either he blew them away when they put him out there, or they have serious concerns about him being able to start.
I think it’s a combination of the two, with him opening their eyes with how impressive he looked making the switch.
Boston is going to continue to have injury woes, they are asking Yuk to play a position he really should not be playing anymore, so yeah he is going to break down. He is a first baseman playing third, he is not getting younger or more athletic.
Their offense except for Crawford is going to take a step backward this season in my opinion, I don’t think Papi has as good of a year, nor Ellsbury, he is a very good hitter, but that power, where the heck did it come from? Also can he stay healthy.
They have way more questions on that team than the Yankees do, yet we have so many Yankee fans scared of them, it’s silly.
I don’t think they’ll ultimately start Bard…..I think there is a better chance Aceves is in the rotation….
At least if we have injury risks, we also have depth, unlike Boston. Esp. in the SP. Just keep CC healthy, is all I ask.
Boston has a very talented team. They are going to be in the race and will challenge for the division.
But every move they make is instantly deemed as some huge “win.” Just like every player they pick in the draft is a future star.
And every single winter people just assume that they are going to be “healthy.”
Boston is no longer is young team. This isn’t 2004 anymore. Kevin Youkilis isn’t forever young. He’s on the other side of 30 and his body is breaking down.
The assumptions are almost as if the Sox are going to have complete health. That never happens.
One of Boston’s major issues is that they simply don’t have large amounts of depth in terms of talent in the organization – especially in pitching.
This makes it very difficult for them to combat the injuries that will inevitably occur.
I should add that Melky Mesa’s OF defense is also elite. It’s just that his bat infuriates me, that I dismiss him. He’s a great CF, though.
blake, agree. Aceves to the SP makes much better sense.
blake, you left out jeter, probably less of an injury risk than a risk for declining productivity and range. also cc is 32 and aj is 35 and dont look now but there’s a guy in the bullpen who’s over 40.
and they would be better off if they could keep both Bard and Aceves in the pen and sign or acquire established starters for the back end.
Trenton should have a nice outfield with Abe now in the mix.
“blake, you left out jeter, probably less of an injury risk than a risk for declining productivity and range. also cc is 32 and aj is 35 and dont look now but there’s a guy in the bullpen who’s over 40.”
none of those guys have been injury risks in their careers though and that’s what we were talking about….of course they could get hurt….anybody can….but they have all been pretty durable guys.
“I don’t think they’ll ultimately start Bard…..I think there is a better chance Aceves is in the rotation….”
That very well could be the case.
The main issue is that they have to add talent from the outside to the mix. If they don’t do that then all they got from losing Papelbon is saving some money.
Boston piecing together a talented bullpen in such a cheap fashion becomes huge if they direct their resources to sign Kuroda or Oswalt.
Their winter is very incomplete right now because they haven’t yet addressed their main weakness.
It’s somewhat similar to the Yankees last year. The Soriano signing could have been very reasonable if the Yankees then moved Joba to the rotation.
Have to wait the rest of the winter to really evaluate these moves by Boston.
yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
I agree about Bard’s fastball. Sox have to still be going all out for a starter.
I wonder why the rush to move J-Ram to the pen. If that slider is as good as they say it is, then it doesn’t really make sense. FB and change are just too good to waste him in the RP.
////
Yankeefem, yeah the quality of that slider may affect his fate. I certainly won’t find out until he makes it to Trenton. BTW, heard from someone connected w/Braves system coach that Vizcaino has made strides on his change. If that goes, then he goes into the rotation.
.
Jason, it would have to be injury concerns or the slider played in Instructs out of pen, but isn’t a good enough pitch. Guess we will learn more going forward. I wish Charleston were coming to Lakewood this season. And even if Ramirez literally blew them away in Instructs, that is no reason to relegate him to the pen while he is still developing. A RP is fungible, a SP with J-Ram’s FB and changeup is not.
One of Mesa or the two Almonte’s are going to have a future on the Yankees at worse an extra outfielder.
I still have a belief in Abe as someone who could be a lot more than that.
He was a great player in the second half of 09, and then he all of 10 besides the first few weeks.
Last year he started off very slow before hitting well over 300 in the second half along with a 36 game hitting streak, I think he could be a legit big time prospect if he did put it all together.
Zolio I don’t know about, he is a weird one, different than Mesa, but still weird. He had such good #s in Tampa, power #s too, but then he struggled in Trenton.
Mesa was horrendous the first two months, but then he also hit well the rest of the season, while also being injured on and off.
Like I said, I really like Abe Almonte.
Pruf, I never considered Viz to be categorically pen-bound. I think giving up on his improving on his third pitch when he has two plus pitches and is still young, (similar to J-Ram in the reverse: Viz has the CB, J-Ram has the changeup) is troubling. Good to hear.
The “new look” Yankees need to do a better job with developing the talent that they have in the minors.
This is an absolute must. They can’t keep screwing around with guys like they did to Noesi last season.
What they did with him was dumb at the time. Now that their budget constraints are more apparent – what they did was even worse.
If the Yankees want to get value out of their minor league system while also using it to save money as the bad contracts they have expire, then they are going to have to bite the bullet and generally leave them in the minors for a longer period of time and be conservative with that.
Outside of the innings issue, the Yankees burned a year of service time for Noesi and got minimal value back from that in terms of financial issues. They just lost a year of team control while getting 80 low leverage innings from him while also setting back his development.
There’s a disconnect in the organization that’s concerning. You see that disconnect in things with the Soriano signing, utilization of Noesi, etc.
They can no longer do that. Not with a budget that is going down.
I think Ramirez is going to start the season in Tampa, and if he is out the pen, and he is impressive, we all might see him in Trenton by the summer.
“The main issue is that they have to add talent from the outside to the mix. If they don’t do that then all they got from losing Papelbon is saving some money”
yup
great points being made
i am super excited to see what jose ramirez can do
also, there’s a kid named ramon flores who people say can really hit
i think jason22 made a point that needs to be emphasized, ellsbury is going to cost a pretty penny. if he stays healthy and continues what he did last season…. there is no reason he’ll take less than crawford.
think about that… the sox might have to pay 45 million a year to two speed outfielders
Great points CB, they need to be patient and let their talent mature.
They have the talent, now they just need to use it, I think with Jesus leading the way, they will figure it out.
Jason22, only got a look at Abe once and liked very much what I saw. There was a poster in here – tyanks – who gave us a lot of great info on Almonte from Tampa. I hope she comes around during the season. I’d like to see Abe regain that form I saw. Zoilo has actually been impressive the few times I’ve seen him.
Yankfem – the Vizcaino thing is still a bitter, bitter pill. What a waste of such a promising arm, and all for nothing – for Vazquez. They could have just turned Joba loose in ’10, as he was free of innings restrictions.
Jason, I would rather they go slow with Ramirez and keep him in the SP, but if he is fatally relegated to the pen, I too expect to see him in Trenton.
Zoilo’s bat played nicely when I saw him in Trenton. Showed power initially, maybe wore out/injuries. I notice he had trouble hitting righties in winter ball, but I like his bat. His fielding has improved but not overly impressive in the defense department.
Mesa was hurt on and off, but hit well when healthy. Still has big holes in his swing though, especially looked silly against curveballs at times.
Yes, like Abe. Big year for him. Hope he can stay healthy.
kd, Flores can hit for sure, and he can also play all over the place.
Plus he might be the most patient hitter in their system, although Dantejr showed that as well in his rookie year.
kd, how much are the yankees paying for the left side of their infield?
The “new look” Yankees need to do a better job with developing the talent that they have in the minors.
——-
They need to be more like the Rays
CB,
really good post and it’s an issue for sure…..
just a gut feeling, but the yankees sign at least one, maybe both of the cubans
that power that cespedes has is rare, or at least that’s what twitter told me. give him a few weeks with klong and let’s see what he can do
Jason22 December 28th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
I think Ramirez is going to start the season in Tampa, and if he is out the pen, and he is impressive, we all might see him in Trenton by the summer.
///
Hope they take it slower with Jo-Ram. Too much talent/too young to be cavalier with and “role” obsessed. I am looking forward to the next wave of good young arms coming through Trenton, though. Some of us will be suffering serious Dellin/Manny withdrawal down here this spring/summer/fall.
Pruf, never liked the Viz deal. Chris Cabrera was supposed to be the other salve that replicated Viz. Hopefully Cabrera is healthy this year after that weird rib removal operation. He has some nasty stuff. I hope he and DePaula are in the mix. Love to see Turley make a move too this year. Unfortunate that he broke his hand when he did, but should be back and healthy.
arod and jeter represent the past yankees, it seems. also, they’re two sure fire hofers. crawford and ellsbury don’t have cooperstown credentials
We are going to be patient. Cash told us so. Let’s see that patience put into action in terms of developing the farm vs. making knee-jerk moves.
kd December 28th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
just a gut feeling, but the yankees sign at least one, maybe both of the cubans
that power that cespedes has is rare, or at least that’s what twitter told me. give him a few weeks with klong and let’s see what he can do
////
That’s my deep wish this offseason, but I hardly think the “leaks” point to that, unless they’re just being overly discreet. Really, we have more pitching depth than we do OF.
Speaking of power, Flores has been showing some pop this year. Kid has a beautiful swing.
“There’s a disconnect in the organization that’s concerning. You see that disconnect in things with the Soriano signing, utilization of Noesi, etc.
They can no longer do that. Not with a budget that is going down.”
Bingo. If they do deviate away from their plan, it should be for net positives like Kuroda, Hamels if he reaches FA, etc.
Not make panic moves like signing Soriano, improper utilization of their young players, etc.
So far, their “plan” looks like the worst of both worlds – stay firm on the budget when it comes to players that can help them, yet erase that restraint when they feel they need to make a move to win now, regardless of future consequence.
The reason why I love Abe so much is when he was injured in 10, instead of sulking as you imagine a kid might, he actually was helping the Tampa team out with some of the younger Latin kids, and being a team leader while not even playing.
I remember reading that online and thinking this kid is something special.
That Trenton outfield if they all play together would be a fun one to watch chase balls, that is for sure.
If the Yankees do put Ramirez in the pen, I am sure they have their reasons for doing so.
Not every big arm needs to be starters, I hear this guy Rivera has been not terrible in the pen:)
Oh and I know you want kids to stay starters as long as possible, but maybe they see something in Ramirez.
Levine also touched on the Yankees’ potential interest in Cuban outfielder Yoenis Cespedes, stating that it was in the best interest of the organization to keep their level of involvement a secret. From an article in YA. Smoke screen or a tell?
“We are going to be patient. Cash told us so. ”
But the thing is – we really haven’t seen them be patient.
Everyone keeps talking about how their plan is patience.
That’s not the case. They haven’t been patient in a disciplined, strategic fashion.
Last year they just signed Soriano for terrible reasons in a knee jerk fashion.
They didn’t really show much patience in keeping Joba in the rotation.
They used Noesi nonsensically.
The only player they really showed patience with was Nova. And that was largely because he was a relatively late bloomer who flew beneath the radar.
But the rub is – to be patient something has to give. Either you have to take a step back and not optimize how you can compete or you have to spend more in the short term to create a cushion.
If you don’t pick one of those two avenues – take a step back or spend more in the short term – then you are going to be left trying to leverage prospects to fill in holes.
And that’s what they’ve been doing the past several seasons. And that’s almost the opposite of strategic patience.
yankeefeminista December 28th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
Pruf, never liked the Viz deal. Chris Cabrera was supposed to be the other salve that replicated Viz. Hopefully Cabrera is healthy this year after that weird rib removal operation. He has some nasty stuff. I hope he and DePaula are in the mix. Love to see Turley make a move too this year. Unfortunate that he broke his hand when he did, but should be back and healthy.
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Cabrera has a long way to go. You hope he can be healthy.
As for DePaula, well, let’s just say Vladimir and Estragon need to come up with some more time-killing games to play while they wait.
CB, I was being facetious and I agree.
Trenton is going to have Brett Marshall, Stoneburner, Mikey O’Brien all in their rotation, it’s not Dellin and Manny, but it’s not bad.
Stoneburner and Marshall need to find 3rd pitches and strike more guys out, but they both have really good arms. Mikey is the most unappreciated Yankee prospect out there, all the kid does is put up really good #s, but because he does not throw in the mid 90′s he gets no love.
Oh and yeah Nick Turley is someone to watch, he was so good last season before they moved him to Tampa and he got injured.
Now if he ever could get a couple more miles per hour, since he is so big, you would think it’s in there somewhere, but yeah he would go from a 4 or 5 guy down the road, to someone with more upside.
Jason22, yep, familiar with all those guys. Definitely not Dellin/Manny, but interesting group nonetheless, especially Marshall. & I’m particularly looking forward to the wave that washes up Bryan Mitchell.
Goodnight, guys.
Depaula is coming we all hope!
Mark Newman said he was hopeful he would finally be able to get over here for next year, so lets see if he is right.
CB, I don’t think you can blame Cashman for Soriano, we all know who did that, the other stuff I agree with, but for whatever reason they did not believe in Joba, be it his arm not holding up, I don’t know.
Lets see what they do this year, with Warren, Phelps, Mitchell, and the two special arms in Manny and Dellin they have a chance to show that patience.
Good stuff tonight. I really would like to see the Yankees take the gamble on Soler and I actually wouldn’t mind it for Cespedes either if they believe in the hit tool…..if he’s going to cost 5 or 6 million a year then they Yankees SHOULD be able to cover that risk for the potential upside…..especially given that the opportunities like this may be much less frequent in the future.
“I was being facetious and I agree.”
I wasn’t really even disagreeing with your point, particularly in the context of your other posts. I know your general position.
I was more just using the general point as a reference for my post.
Right now, I really don’t know what the Yankees strategy is.
Everything made sense in terms of transitioning to a more sane financial model – as long as they were willing to spend more in the short term.
Now?
It’s very unclear what they’ve been doing.
The most likely probability however that I can see is that the organization will continue to turn to the minors to patch up solutions. That will cost them in terms of longer term development. But that’s what I see right now.
Without short term bridge spending, they have difficult choices. I don’t see them taking the proverbial step back. So that leaves limited options and the minor leaguers are just there waiting…
We’ll see. But for right now I think the organization has lost some of it’s baseball coherence.
arod and jeter represent the past yankees, it seems. also, they’re two sure fire hofers. crawford and ellsbury don’t have cooperstown credentials”
hof means nothing on the field, whos gonna get more production out of their $45M?
im not saying the yankees are bad for paying them $45M, just pointing out that we are overpaying for the left side of our infield just as you suggest the red socks are going to have to overpay for 2 outfielders.
i take a much more balanced approach than most on here. there is a tendency to pick at the sock’s flaws even when we have very similar ones.
I have serious questions about Cashman, I mean he tried to trade Jesus for a few months rental in Lee, and yeah most everyone would have done that trade, but I would never have.
If you want to build a new dynasty you better be sure who the cornerstones of it are going to be, and the fact he did not see what he has in Montero is a worrisome fact.
It’s better to be lucky than good, Cano would have been traded a couple of times in the past if not for teams picking the wrong players.
Brian Cashman, Mark Newman, all of them need to know who are Yankees and who are guys to get Yankees are, otherwise having the most talent they have had in their farm, won’t mean a thing.
Jason, it doesn’t hurt that Turley is a lefty. And he does have very decent secondary stuff. The slider’s the key for Marshall but he has two FB’s and a decent changeup. We probably don’t esteem him as high as we once did because of the decrease in his K rates, but he is still a year back from TJS.
jason22, where would you rank the yankee farm in baseball? top 5? top 10?
the most overrated and ridiculous thing that goes on in yankeeland is this idea that guys are ‘yankees’ or arent yankees. its all bs there is nothing to it.
fair point y’s guy. i see what you’re saying. the fact that the yankees had jeter and arod for a long time gave them a huge advantage over the sox, there hasn’t been a consistent ss in beantown since nomar.
my point is that i don’t see crawford and ellsbury giving them that kind of advantage.
but you’re right, there’s an imbalance in play here
“I have serious questions about Cashman, I mean he tried to trade Jesus for a few months rental in Lee, and yeah most everyone would have done that trade, but I would never have.
If you want to build a new dynasty you better be sure who the cornerstones of it are going to be, and the fact he did not see what he has in Montero is a worrisome fact.”
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that’s your version of history and you are entitled to it, but it’s also possible lee would have signed an extension and the yankees could have 2 more championships.
I hate rankings kd, all I know is this is the best their system has ever been since I am following, and that’s both in legit high end talent and also depth guys.
What I mean by Yankees and non Yankees is knowing your own system, and being able to pick the guys who can help you win, and trading the guys you still think are good, but using them to get other pieces to again help you win.
yankeefem, nah it does not hurt at all that he is a lefty, not bad for a pick in the last round of a draft.
Yep and I think Montero is vital to the future of this teams offense Ys Guy, and I think he is more vital than Lee would have been.
Having Lee would not have guaranteed anything, last time I checked, he is still without a ring.
Again I know I am in the minority on that, and I am okay with it.
i think there’s just too much analysis with the benefit of hindsight going on here. there was a time when half the people on here were suggesting trades to get that lazy cano out of town. i’d say that noesi’s season in the majors last year is to a great extent the reason that he is so much more highly regarded now than he was. and hughes spent a year in the pen (thank god otherwise we likely wouldnt have won a WS) then came back with an 18 win season. i’d like to have seen noesi in higher leveraged situations, too but i dont see last season as a lost year for him in any way.
I agree with you on Noesi, I don’t think it was a lost year, but I do understand CB point, that being to use him in that role, was a waste
I don’t think he is that more highly rated a lot of people liked him more than Nova before Nova found that slider, and that’s why they are upset at him being used the way he was.
Now it is likely he won’t be able to be a guy who can give you 180 to 200 innings so you’re forced to get him those innings in the minors this year instead of allowing him to do so last year.
by the yankees method of allowing a pitcher to go +30 innings from their previous career high, noesi should be clear to throw 190 innings this year.
The worry with that is the Hughes situation where it’s not career high but the previous year #.
I am one who believes that the main problem with Hughes was the big jump in innings, that’s why I am more confident in him than a lot of the people seem to be here.
i think you may be right about hughes having a problem because of the year after year jump as opposed to the career high method of calculating it, and they may adjust noesi next year to be on the safe side. but lets hope we are not depending on noesi to throw anywhere near that # of innings at the mlb level or we are likely going to be in a very bad place.
i tend to think that hughes will be fine, and will show he can be a consistent 15 to 20 game winner
nova, i worry a bit about a sophomore slump. a bit. i’ve always thought he was a bulldog on the mound, that competitive spirit should serve him well.
i think burnett stays, but is in the bullpen and replaces by noesi by may/june
garcia – the guy can can pitch. best number 5 in the al east
cc- if healthy, monster performance
just some friendly predictions
well its way past my bedtime, nite!
As far as A-Rod’s medical procedure, I don’t see this as a red flag or a “sign” of things to come.
After all, he played lights-out defense before and after the knee surgery. If his knee was a serious issue, it would have shown on the field. And he showed good lateral range late into the season.
The bigger issue was that damn sprained thumb. It clearly bothered him late in the year and, at the least, his offensive timing was messed up in the postseason.
There’s no way he misses those Joaquin Benoit meatballs in Game 5 with the bases loaded if his hitting timing was in sync.
Just reading some posts on this thread, and I see an unusual amount of laundry list of complaints. Then I see they come on the heels of the Oakland/Boston trade news. Haha, like clockwork.
I said before last season that the Sux would come in 3rd at best and except for a few posters here, there was basic incredulity at my even suggesting that. Posters assured that the Sux would definitely make it to the post season.
Whether the Sux bring someone into their rotation or they don’t, they aren’t going to be any big deal.
I believe that Andrew Bailey’s ship has sailed. The kid was great at one point but never seemed to be able to get it back once he was injured. I’m sure that the Sux have not made any commitment regarding who will be their closer since both Bard and Bailey are currrently wild cards. They might even end up with closer by committee.
******
I agree that there are posters who seem to see the Sux as titans whenever they make a move.
And since I don’t think Kuroda was going to translate well coming to the Yankees at the age of 37, neither would I be worried if the Sux did go out and get him.
I’m betting that the Rays end up being a hell of a lot more competitive than the Sux. They are in deep doodoo all around. Not a lot of kuybaya’ing going on with the Sux. If you think that doesn’t matter, stay tuned.
kd – I like your predictions. Nice to see other than “depressed faces” here with respect to the Yankees rotation.
As constituted I think they have the potential to be very very good, if not great.
Nobody is beating the Yankee bullpen.
A solid rotation plus the Yankee pen? What’s to worry? Unless of course you’re so insecure that if you don’t have everything sewn up in your mind you’re going to vomit your way through the season! Develop a sense of adventure, and enjoy the ride.
DUH. Arod’s contract the Yanks may regret. NO sh-t sherlock. What a epiphany.
arod is a joke, and the flat top fat steinnbrenner is a moron for bidding against himself…
the chances of arod justretiring are zilch, he loves the coin to much.
Mark my words, oakland didn’t just trade andrew bailey for that bag of balls. He’s damaged goods. That fleecing screams red flag.
Carlo, I’m with you on that. Why ever would Oakland trade away Bailey if they felt he still had a lot to offer? At one point he was their golden-haired boy!
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stuart a, a healthy Arod is far from a joke. Isn’t it far better to have faith that he is going to be healthy enough to get his swing back to where he needs it to be?
I was pretty unhappy when Arod announced he was opting out and then the Yankees brought him back, but the minute they brought him back, I bought back in. And he certainly had some pretty great moments since then. Injuries have taken a toll on him, but he is definitely a talent, and one with such amazing natural ability.
I’d prefer to believe that whatever he just had done is going to help him get back to form and perform the way we need him to.
Time for cookies and milk???
another arod apologist. the guy will make $30 mill this year. we are going to have to hear about his health for the next 6 years.
arod sucks and is the most disliked superstar of all time for a reason. the guy is 36, it is over….he will never hit 40 HR’s again. play 150 games!!!I hope so but doubt it greatly, but hey his agent got him the highest contract so whiptydoooooooooooooooo
stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:04 am
With 6 more years of him to boot, Wonder how many trip to Germany that may be??
stuart a, not an arod apologist by any stretch of the imagination. Just someone objective enough to acknowledge that he has certainly had good moments for/with the Yankees and hoping that we get treated to a lot more of them.
I consider all of those really long-term contracts scary by the way, unless the player is mighty young at the time of the contract!
Who would of thought it best to make long term contractual obligations with players when they are young. What a novel idea.
Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 1:36 am
stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:04 am
With 6 more years of him to boot, Wonder how many trip to Germany that may be??
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could be wrong but don’t think AROD last out his contract
better have a plan for life after Mo, this could be his last year
Would rather have Mo at 43 than ARod at 37. Afgree about his contract, lucky if he makes it till 40 and plays 120 games a year.
Some Noesi news, and it’s something that should need a follow up to figure out what happened.
He pitched in the DWL post-season yesterday now and after retiring the first 8 batters he was replaced with 2 out in the third inning.
He had not pitched in 11 days, but I really can’t figure out a reason to remove him with two outs in an inning, so yeah, this is something to keep an eye on.
Lets all hope it is nothing big.
stuart a December 29th, 2011 at 1:35 am
another arod apologist. the guy will make $30 mill this year. we are going to have to hear about his health for the next 6 years.
arod sucks and is the most disliked superstar of all time for a reason. the guy is 36, it is over….he will never hit 40 HR’s again. play 150 games!!!I hope so but doubt it greatly, but hey his agent got him the highest contract so whiptydoooooooooooooooo
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Stuart, not much you can do about his contract now. Nothing is going to change and it’s water over the dam. I’m not ready to give up on him yet, but I do think this year will be telling. I don’t think we have the luxury of having the usual slow start of Tex coupled with a Arod slump also. The way I look at it is can the guy stay healthy? If he can be in there for most of the games he will put up numbers that help the team. I think he played in less than 100 games last year.
A-Rod’s contract is a mess, but that was pretty apparent when it was first signed four years ago. It is what it is, and there isn’t much point in complaining about it. Still, to his credit, A-Rod seems to be quite committed to putting out an honest effort to be worthy of his contract. I expect A-Rod to have a bounce-back year in 2012, with 30 homers in about 130 games played.
NEW YORK (Reuters) – The U.S. government has sued New York Yankees co-owner Hal Steinbrenner and his wife seeking more than $670,00 in taxes, saying that amount was erroneously refunded to the baseball team based on a late refund claim for the 2001 tax year.
The suit filed by the Internal Revenue Service in U.S. District Court in Tampa, Florida, on Tuesday stems from a time when the Yankees and the New Jersey Nets professional basketball team formed a joint venture called YankeeNets.
Hal Steinbrenner is listed as a general partner of the Yankees along with his siblings, who inherited the team when their father and longtime owner George Steinbrenner died in 2010. Hal Steinbrenner’s wife Christina Steinbrenner is not listed among the team’s executives.
In August of 2009, the defendants filed an amended tax return for the 2001 tax year, resulting in a refund of $670,493.78, the suit said. But the return was filed more than six months after the deadline, resulting in an erroneous refund, the suit said.
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Well if some accountant missed the date by 6 months it would make me wonder how robust the Yankees accounting system is.
Ghostwriter December 29th, 2011 at 6:31 am
A-Rod’s contract is a mess, but that was pretty apparent when it was first signed four years ago. It is what it is, and there isn’t much point in complaining about it. Still, to his credit, A-Rod seems to be quite committed to putting out an honest effort to be worthy of his contract. I expect A-Rod to have a bounce-back year in 2012, with 30 homers in about 130 games played.
Morning, I certaintly think that is possible. 130 games is possible IF he has no injury. I think they are going to have to give him 3-4 games off each month so 130 is about the right math.
I hope we get to smoke at least one Cuban cigar.
Prices seem a bit steep. Even on the Soler brand.
Morning MTU…..yea I agree. I prefer both and a reasonable trade for Matt Garza……is that too much to ask
Boston basically has 4 FA options for their rotation….Kuroda, Oswalt, Jackson, and Saunders. Have to believe they’ll sign one of those guys at least…..
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 15m fresh off acquisition of closer bailey, #redsox shooting for a starter. some possibilities: kuroda, garza, oswalt, saunders, ejax
Blake-
Good morning back at ya’.
Crapstein and reasonable should never be used in the same sentence.
So yeah. It’s too much to ask.
The new budget constraints appear to have really put a damper on things for the time being.
MTU,
Yea….we’ll see. Id be cool without just signing Kuroda also on a one year deal…..Im bored and ready for ST so I can see Montero mash
Blake-
Anytime A-Rod has a new girlfriend he always has a Monster year.
Since this one was a former Mz. Galaxy his season should be out of this world.
P.S. Tex needs to bring that avg. up from the left side.
MTU,
Im skeptical about Tex transforming himself from the left side……however the guy is a true pro and if its possible I think he will figure it out.
Blake-
I do not think Kuroda is in the cards either at his asking price.
The Montero mash. Sounds like a song.
Jim Bowden ranks the top ten contracts in baseball (from a team perspective) at ESPN.com and Rays players (Matt Moore, David Price and Evan Longoria) occupy three of the top four spots.
Imagine that…….Longoria’s deal is ridiculous
The Red Sox are working to improve their team and seem willing to spend some money. As a very long time fan I find it distressing the Yankees are doing nothing.
That, my friends, is complacency. No basis for it.
Blake-
I hope he and Long find the answer. IF the batspeed has diminished then it would seem logical that his swing will need to be shortened a bit.
The plan is patience.
Mac-
I do not believe it is complacency that is driving them.
In my opinion it a desire to get to that budget target which puts them under the LT threshold.
That, and the constarints imposed by certain contracts.
My belief is that if an exceptional situation came along they would move.
Barring that they either trade or stand pat.
At a minimum I hope they get Soler and Nakajima.
The lefty for the Ro will probably have to wait.
“Im skeptical about Tex transforming himself from the left side……however the guy is a true pro and if its possible I think he will figure it out.”
Blake – it’s not like the Yankees threw 180 million dollars at a guy who was basically Oscar Gamble from the left side, minus the ‘fro and lighter skin complexion.
Tex used to rake from the left side because his technique was better (closed stance, quieter hands, not in such a hurry to start the bat because he was looking to pull everything, etc.) and it resulted in a swing that used the entire to field. So I don’t see it as transforming himself, which implies that he has to become something that he is not. I look at it as he needs to go back to what made him such a complete hitter prior to joining the Yankees.
Giambi could never replicate the swing he had back in Oakland once he became a dead pull hitter with the Yankees … we’ll see if Tex has better results.
MTU,
They were lucky last year with Garcia and Colon, and they are going to try that again. Yes, it is all budget. The Yankees brand name and value all depend on winning. They put it at significant risk by not seeking to improve.
The playoffs are far from assured.
Who in this particular off-season would have been a bona fide game changer in an area of need for the Yankees?
The answer is simple. No one.
Mac-
I understand your frustration.
I would say it is near a dead bang certainty that the Yankees will be in the playoffs especially w the addition of a 2nd WC.
So I guess we disagree there.
IMO what is at issue, and what is always at issue, is whether they have the goods to go all the way.
Maybe expecting to win a WS each and every season is unreasonable especially since the Yankees have won so many more than any other club ?
“Blake – it’s not like the Yankees threw 180 million dollars at a guy who was basically Oscar Gamble from the left side, minus the ‘fro and lighter skin complexion.”
Yea I know…..but Tex has never really had a great swing from that side and has never kept the bat in the zone very long……he coukd overcome that when he was in his prime physically…….it becomes much harder to do so as you age and lose bat speed.
I do however think there are some mechanical things he can do to help however…..shortening and flattening his swing plane…..closing up and reducing movement …etc…..we shall see. As I said…..if it’s physically possible for him to be good again from that side I think Tex will figure out a way……or try extremely hard to.
Who have the Red Sox spent money on?
The annual “will A-Rod be the same player he always was” articles started early this year.
He’s 36 years old. If you expect him to play like he is 28 years old then you are an idiot. Players age. Contracts don’t stop that from happening.
“Who in this particular off-season would have been a bona fide game changer in an area of need for the Yankees?”
Well if we are ignoring price tags…….Latos, Garza, Beltran….probably Gio. There are a lot of guys that coukd help for the right price. Garza would significantly increase the Yanks chances at a WS IMO…….will the price e be right is what I don’t know
Blake-
Sorry bud but the price is not likely to be right for Garza.
Crapstein will be looking to score. Several teams appear interested.
We are not giving up the kind of talent he is likely to demand. I don’t think we should either.
Time for a buritto.
Catch ya’ later.
Tex used to rake from the left side because his technique was better (closed stance, quieter hands, not in such a hurry to start the bat because he was looking to pull everything, etc.) and it resulted in a swing that used the entire to field
============================
Teixeira’s never been one to use the entire field. He’s not dead pull all the time or anything (though that’s where most of his power comes from), but he’s never been a guy to use the opposite field on anything close to a regular basis and he’s never had any kind of opposite field power. He has historically gone up the middle (50% of balls put in play over his career left handed) or pulled the ball (37%). Those numbers have remained pretty stable as a Yankee (50% up the middle, 39% pull). I don’t think this is about him suddenly becoming pull happy.
The Red Sox are working to improve their team and seem willing to spend some money. As a very long time fan I find it distressing the Yankees are doing nothing
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The Red Sox have added maybe $4M in contracts in adding Melancon, Bailey and the immortal Kelly Shoppach.
Sorry bud but the price is not likely to be right for Garza.
Crapstein will be looking to score. Several teams appear interested.
We are not giving up the kind of talent he is likely to demand. I don’t think we should either.
=================================
Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.
MTU,
If the Yankees will only make a deal if it is exceptional, they will never make one. That is not how trades are made. It is curious that all other contenders are striving to improve, but the Yankees do not. I can’t imagine this team, a year older and with less depth, an AROD seeking therapy for multiple body parts, is going to be better even with Montero at DH.
If Cashman’s off season goal was to improve then pitching, he has completely failed. He has added no one.
As for the Cubans, we are kidding ourselves to believe the Yankees will even be in the market.
Maybe Colon will return. I am doubtful on Jones. Wait until an outfielder gets hurt and all will see what the two career minor league backups will or will not do.
Yes, I am feeling negative. I liked it when they tried to upgrade.
“Boston basically has 4 FA options for their rotation….Kuroda, Oswalt, Jackson, and Saunders. Have to believe they’ll sign one of those guys at least…..”
Why do you believe they’ll sign one of those guys “at least”? Because you hear rumors they’re interested?
“The Red Sox are working to improve their team and seem willing to spend some money.”
Exactly what have the Sux done to improve their team? And where do you get the idea they seem willing to spend money?
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“Who in this particular off-season would have been a bona fide game changer in an area of need for the Yankees?”
Very legitimate question. And I think “in an area of need” is the key to the question and the answers you get are going to be very individual-based, of course.
I agree with you, Villa. S
You can’t ignore price tags.
You can’t ignore injuries.
Yes, I am feeling negative. I liked it when they tried to upgrade.
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To be fair to the Yankees, I don’t think people are giving them enough credit for the obvious upgrade that Montero will be over Posada as the regular DH. That could prove signifcant.
Chanes of upgrading elsewhere on the field simply were not that good. They were not getting involved in Pujols and Fielder and guys like Cuddyer and Beltran were not going to be better than what they have right now.
As for the pitching? I agreed on not going long on CJ Wilson and suspect that the homecooking he gave the Halos on that contract wasn’t going to be happening in NYC. I do wish they were more agressive in the Darvish thing, but can also understand their position vis a vis another long term contract, especially with Cano and Granderson coming up around the bend. To me, the best case scenario is a trade for Garza, who would make a terrific #2 starter. Failing that, the Yankees are doing the right thing by waiting the FA pitching market out, IMO.
“Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.”
That would be a very difficult decision……Id try to keep Sanchez out and offer Romine instead. He’s closer to the big leagues and perhaps that would have appeal over the upside with Sanchez…….however Theo would probably want him for the same reasons Id like to keep him.
I don’t think an exceptional deal or a bona fide game changer is the test. The test should be whether a move improves the team. In my opinion, many now unavailable players would have done that. However, Yankee fans pretend the Yankee tax stops moves. That is patently ridiculous.
“Why do you believe they’ll sign one of those guys “at least”? Because you hear rumors they’re interested?”
I just do……it would be poor management to spend all that money last year and then go into the season with two giant holes in their rotation.
continued
I agree with you Villa. Because fans feel that major upgrades are needed does not necessarily mean that major upgrades are needed.
Matt Garza would be a dream to add to the rotation. But then he would do that for any rotation. He’s not a necessity to win.
And I agree also with Bret the Hitman. Patience is necessary here. If you don’t have it you better stock up on some tranquilizers. The Yankees don’t appear poised to sell the farm in order to win the division by 10 games. It appears they are willing to simply win the division…
I think the RSox sign E Jackson. He fits their mold of hard thrower and fairly cheap. Then they move Aceves into the #5 slot and that is a formidable rotation & BP. They still lack some depth in case of injuries, but Miller could be used there just in case. Melacon, Bard & Bailey are pretty good. They will be a good team but as I predicted last year I think they will fight for 3rd or 4th place ultimately. Yanks & TB are ahead of them. Toronto may be as well, but they have their own question marks too.
That would be a very difficult decision……Id try to keep Sanchez out and offer Romine instead
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If I’m Epstein, I respond with “Sure, no problem. I’ll take Romine instead of Sanchez. Just replace Betances with Banuelos and you have a deal”.
Ray:
Don’t see Jackson as being cheap or a short term option. I think they’re more likely to look at the guys who will apparently settle for 1 year deals such as Kuroda or Oswalt.
blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:43 am
Morning MTU…..yea I agree. I prefer both and a reasonable trade for Matt Garza……is that too much to ask
Morning Blake, the words I saw for Garza’s asking price were incrediably high. Code words to me that it won’t happen. It does appear in this winter of patience that it is too much to ask.
blake, I am only going on what I heard post collapse and that’s probably why I’m not expecting the Sux to make any major acquisitions if it means they have to give up a lot. The fans were pretty POd with what happened in the face of the two big acquisitions they made last season and were absolutely livid with management for watching the team go to pot. So the thinking on the street was that they were not going to go out and get any big names but would concentrate on healing from within (since they were supposed to win the world series with the team they trotted out there last year, ahem). The only player they lost was Papelbum. And they’ve ostensibly replaced him with Miller.
Anything is possible but the three jackasses don’t appear to know how to run a team anyway and for better or for worse, the mover and shaker on the team was Theo. ‘Twill be an interesting watch.
blake December 29th, 2011 at 8:52 am
“Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I’d offer Betances, Phelps, and 2B David Adams for Garza and see if Epstein bites. He won’t get a better offer elsewhere.
I’d offer Betances, Phelps, and 2B David Adams for Garza and see if Epstein bites. He won’t get a better offer elsewhere
========================
If that’s the best offer he gets, then Garza will be the Opening Day starter for the Cubs.
MTU December 29th, 2011 at 7:51 am
Blake-
Good morning back at ya’.
Crapstein and reasonable should never be used in the same sentence.
So yeah. It’s too much to ask.
The new budget constraints appear to have really put a damper on things for the time being.
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MTU, you got that right
Blake I’m bored also, especially with this patience vrs agressive debate. Everyday people assualting each other on the merits or shortcomings of their case.
Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.
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You are out of your mind. Betances AND Sanchez? For Matt Garza? Insanity. And Cashman, I am certain, would NEVER do that. That’s TWO of the team’s top five elites.
YIKES
Suddenly fans are offering the kind of haul for Matt Garza that has been routinely tossed around here for a King Felix type talent. Garza’s good, but he’s NOT worthy of these kinds of packages.
J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Depends. If Epstein says Betances, Sanchez and Warren or something like that, I think you have to give that some serious consideration.
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You are out of your mind. Betances AND Sanchez? For Matt Garza? Insanity. And Cashman, I am certain, would NEVER do that. That’s TWO of the team’s top five elites.
YIKES
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I’ve sort of figured out that Cashman is offering no “elites”. Therefore, given low supply, high demand I hold out no optomism for any major trade. I’m sure that the management team is very optomistic, but they have layed a pretty good spin case out there if they don’t do well. We have already heard it so many times. High costs, dealing prospects, unrealistic demands, ect. All of those things are true, but it a pretty good out if the ship flounders this year. Some will agree, some will disagree based on what happens which none of us know right now.
Betances, Sanchez, and Warren doesn’t get you Prince Pineda, let alone King Felix.
Garza struggled with the Cubbies last year early! How would that fare, especially if he were expensive talent wise in the trade.
I see the Yanks as layered depth in the SP front with an extremely talented BP.
SP1………52 CC Sabathia……..Manny Banuelos
SP2………34 A.J. Burnett……..68 Dellin Betances
SP3………65 Phil Hughes………Adam P Warren
SP4………47 Ivan Nova…………Jose Ramirez
SP5………36 Freddy Garcia
SP6………64 Hector Noesi
SP7………D.J. Mitchell
SP8………David Phelps
Also, the Yanks have the chips to pull off an in season trade as well. I also wonder how much could one of the B’s be late in the year for the Yanks?
Good morning, Yankee people.
The Yankees will never offer Sanchez in a Garza deal. People will be oohing and aahing over Sanchez’s bat once they get a look at it. You don’t trade a special bat like that, especially at a premium position.
You are out of your mind. Betances AND Sanchez? For Matt Garza? Insanity. And Cashman, I am certain, would NEVER do that. That’s TWO of the team’s top five elites
================================
It would be a lot, but the Yankees could use a reasonably priced and controlled #2 starter and have the chips. Chances of Betances being as good an MLB pitcher as Garza are no better than 50/50. Sanchez is probably 4 years away and a lot can happen in that time, obviously both good or bad, but he’s far from a lock to be a high end MLB hitter or catcher.
I doubt Cahsman would it too, but he’s not going to get a #2 starter offering guys like Romine, Phelps, Warren, Adams, etc.
” B*ck*tt + L*st*r + B*tth*l*z = Already the best rotation in baseball ”
Duh .
Gary,
I would hope Cashman isn’t offering any elites. Here’s why: the two elite pitchers are just way too promising and way too close to the majors to bail on for “good” talent.
The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away, but the bat is way too special to be used to pad an offer for “good” talent.
Williams is the probably the future in CF and we won’t even speak of Jesus, whom I finally feel secure is completely off limits.
Isn’t that obvious ?
“Anytime A-Rod has a new girlfriend he always has a Monster year.
Since this one was a former Mz. Galaxy his season should be out of this world.”
Funny you say that because I have both noticed and noted the same thing. Didn’t know he had a new squeeze. Good for us!
Red Robin December 29th, 2011 at 9:23 am
” B*ck*tt + L*st*r + B*tth*l*z = Already the best rotation in baseball ”
Duh .
___________________________________________________________________________
Best, there’s an argument there, but it’s a pretty good one. They get another guy they could be pretty set for their starters.
RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 8:55 am
I think the RSox sign E Jackson. He fits their mold of hard thrower and fairly cheap. Then they move Aceves into the #5 slot and that is a formidable rotation & BP. They still lack some depth in case of injuries, but Miller could be used there just in case. Melacon, Bard & Bailey are pretty good. They will be a good team but as I predicted last year I think they will fight for 3rd or 4th place ultimately. Yanks & TB are ahead of them. Toronto may be as well, but they have their own question marks too.
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I don’t think Miller is anything special. He seemed to only do well against the weak teams. I would be concerned about Aceves back as a starter. He seemed more suited to the BP when he was with the Yankees. They had a real lack of depth last year and have less now because of the trades for Bailey and Melacon.
CJNitkowski AROD PRP story shines light on some media ignorance. Almost 2012, catch up and put the 10 mins of research in to educate yourself.
Why would we give up Betances AND Sanchez + others for Garza? That is more than the Cubs gave up for Garza the first time around when Garza still had an extra year of arb. The deal would be an overpay and wouldn’t make sense from a Yankee perspective.
Gary-
I do not see both Cubans and Garza.
Maybe 1. Like Soler.
If Crapstein were to be reasonable (I doubt he would) then maybe we could snag Garza.
but he’s far from a lock to be a high end MLB hitter or catcher.
///
dogface, this is faulty reasoning. Sanchez isn’t Romine. He’s a virtual lock to be high end as a hitter. That’s why he’s never on the table, IMO. As for Betances, he goes back to what he did in 2010 and stays there, his future is worlds brighter than Garza’s. Even with the latter risk – mostly of some kind of injury I would say – I’ll take my chances, and certainly not giving that future away for Garza.
But the idea that BOTH would be reasonable from a Yankee standpoint for Garza, shows me just how distorted the lens has become. You kidding? Epstein wouldn’t even be able to get the “Yes” out of his mouth, he’d be choking so on his own saliva.
Fortunately, Cashman doesn’t have a drinking problem.
I don’t like being a fan of a team that hands out towels.
https://twitter.com/#!/Giants/status/152393428632739841/photo/1
Trisha-
He is in Boise. She is there. He’s workin’ out. Big season on the way ?
J. Alfred Prufrock December 29th, 2011 at 9:24 am
Gary,
I would hope Cashman isn’t offering any elites. Here’s why: the two elite pitchers are just way too promising and way too close to the majors to bail on for “good” talent.
The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away, but the bat is way too special to be used to pad an offer for “good” talent.
Williams is the probably the future in CF and we won’t even speak of Jesus, whom I finally feel secure is completely off limits.
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Well that the core of the debate isn’t it. I don’t think you can hang onto everyone and obviously all these guys aren’t going to pan out. Many don’t agree, many do. Personally I think the Yanks should be going for a starting pitchers and trading some of these prospects if necessary, but at this point I’m so tired of the offseason that I’m ready for them to just go out to war and see what they do with what they have. If the Yanks have again early season injuries to their SP’ers or poor performance it’s going to be a bit of a pickle for them to patch something together.
A little perspective here. I was in love with what the Yankees did last season (bringing back Freddy and Bartolo). I felt it had the possibility of success written all over it. They also got Chavez and Jones, a very modest off season compared to the stepchildren to the north, who were deemed the team of the ages because they brought in Agon and Crawford. I don’t think I’m forgetting any MAJOR acquisitions made by the Yanks. Certainly no show stoppers.
Now neither Hughes nor AJ performed as had been hoped. AND THE YANKEES STILL WON THE DAMNED DIVISION!
The Sux on the other hand, with the flippin’ team that was even deemed to be better than the ’27 Yanks, well look for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPNpJX8b-bc
All that glitters is not gold. And because you do not think the Yankees are an improved team does not mean they won’t be an improved team.
If the offense does HALF of what it is capable of doing, the Yankees will be home free +++.
And don’t give short shrift to the Yankee bullpen and what that means to the success of the team!
Half full, not half empty.
JMO
I don’t think Miller is anything special
=====================
I don’t think Boston thinks Miller is anything special which is why his contract is only $1M and non-guaranteed. Like last year, they’re throwing it against the wall and seeing if it sticks. If he’s walking people all spring, he’s probably a free agent by April Fools Day.
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:29 am
Why would we give up Betances AND Sanchez + others for Garza? That is more than the Cubs gave up for Garza the first time around when Garza still had an extra year of arb. The deal would be an overpay and wouldn’t make sense from a Yankee perspective.
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It’s to the point where, the names put into these hypotheticals don’t even matter. Romine is Sanchez, etc. They’re all the same guy, and they’re ALL available…for Matt friggin’ Garza for chrissake.
MTU December 29th, 2011 at 9:29 am
Gary-
I do not see both Cubans and Garza.
Maybe 1. Like Soler.
If Crapstein were to be reasonable (I doubt he would) then maybe we could snag Garza.
____________________________________________________________________________
Again I think the cost for Garza is too high, unless there has been some revelation around Yankee land recently we are passing on that one. Same deal on the cubans, I think the price is too high for Cashman.
“It’s to the point where, the names put into these hypotheticals don’t even matter. Romine is Sanchez, etc. They’re all the same guy, and they’re ALL available…for Matt friggin’ Garza for chrissake.”
If you are going to trade Sanchez, you better darn well know what you are trading. No way the Yankees trade Sanchez in a package, and not for anything less than a young ace.
Maine, I think Aceves would do fine as a back-end rotation pitcher for Sox. He does have 4 pitches. Although, I still think they add someone and use Aceves as a long man.
I can’t imagine a place more alien for a guy like A-Rod than a place like Boise.
He must really dig this woman.
Too funny.
Mr Spotlight meets Mrs. Moonlight.
What a hoot.
“He is in Boise. She is there. He’s workin’ out. Big season on the way ?
Big season on the way indeed MTU! We both know it.
**********
This place is always good for a giggle. I expect that half wit Sux worshipper Red Robin to come out with as-always stupidity – deeming the same gaggle of fools to be the rotation of the ages – the same way he did last season and is stupid enough to trot it out again.
But to see people here actually agree with him makes me happy I haven’t eaten my breakfast.
Sad that some of you are so driven by fear and don’t have a whit of a handle on reality.
The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away,
======================
No he isn’t. Let’s be realistic. He’s 3 years away minimum, more likely 4.
“I don’t think Miller is anything special. He seemed to only do well against the weak teams. I would be concerned about Aceves back as a starter. He seemed more suited to the BP when he was with the Yankees. They had a real lack of depth last year and have less now because of the trades for Bailey and Melacon.”
Agree with every point you’ve made Maine. I do think the people who have the best handle on the Sux are the ones who live right around them. No offense to those who don’t live right around them. Consider yourselves lucky!
A-Rod and Ms. Galaxy have left Boise for sun, sand and fish tacos.
Even if I chewed a week’s worth of Peyote buttons I still can’t see the Sux as the best team in the AL East.
Not that I’m gonna do that or anything.
I would offer Betances, Phelps/Warren, and Romine for Garza. However, I don’t think the Yankees will. Nine million would evidently blow the budget.
An earlie poster described how Noesi left his winter league game in the middle of an inning with no one on in the third inning. That is concerning. I would like to know the reason for that. He is important as, at worst, the sixth starter.
I would be very surprised if the Sox don’t add another starter. They would then put
Bard back in the pen and start Aceves. Despite our wishes otherwise, if they add Kuroda, Oswalt or Garza their starters are certainly better than the Yankees. Yes, they have little depth, but do the Yankees truly know if any of the AAA guys can really pitch at a MLB level?
The Red Sox led the league in runs. It was their pitching that killed them in September. They are working on that.
Tampa Bay will likely be better with Moore all year and their young team maturing. I also expect them to add a bat by trading Davis, a proven MLB starter who will bring a pretty good player in return.
I don’t want the Yankees to give up any of the kids. Let’s continue to develop them and plug in a serviceable spot starter to put in the pen. If that means bringing back Bartolo, bring him back. If it means bringing up one of the kids who is ready (is there anyone? I don’t follow the minors the way some of you do) then do that.
Let’s just hold the line and keep our fingers crossed on the players we have, that they have good years. That’s more than enough to win it all, if it happens.
Again, paying the sun and the moon for stars doesn’t necessarily mean jack squat. Note the early 2000s with the Yanks and note the Sux 2011 team of the century.
“A-Rod and Ms. Galaxy have left Boise for sun, sand and fish tacos.”
Oh. I get it. They’re sitting in her backyard staring her fishtank with a sunlamp on.
Cool.
edit: staring at. Sorry.
Well that the core of the debate isn’t it. I don’t think you can hang onto everyone and obviously all these guys aren’t going to pan out. Many don’t agree, many do. Personally I think the Yanks should be going for a starting pitchers and trading some of these prospects if necessary, but at this point I’m so tired of the offseason that I’m ready for them to just go out to war and see what they do with what they have. If the Yanks have again early season injuries to their SP’ers or poor performance it’s going to be a bit of a pickle for them to patch something together.
///
Gary, not hanging onto “everyone”, just a few guys. That’s a small number in a system as rich as ours. You don’t blow that up for Matt Garza.
“If I’m Epstein, I respond with “Sure, no problem. I’ll take Romine instead of Sanchez. Just replace Betances with Banuelos and you have a deal”.”
Lol….Im.sure you would.
# dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:39 am
The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away,
======================
No he isn’t. Let’s be realistic. He’s 3 years away minimum, more likely 4.
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That’s the thing I like Sanchez as much as anyone else but he can be moved in the right deal. We’re not talking about just giving him away.
dogface December 29th, 2011 at 9:39 am
The Sanchez kid is a couple of years away,
======================
No he isn’t. Let’s be realistic. He’s 3 years away minimum, more likely 4.
///
Even if it takes him that long, he’s worth the wait. The point is, your starting point is shaky, and that is that Sanchez may not hit at the ML level. He’s already got immense power and tremendous bat speed. YOu want to just throw names around, fine, but don’t try to float it that he “may not hit.” That’s just nonsense. Sorry.
dogface, no one in the system compares with Sanchez, whether he is 4 or 3 years away, you aren’t going to trade away that bat. Also he is the next catcher wave, so he is particularly valuable. He really heated up at the end of the season once he made adjustments, and had 7 HR in his last 9 games, and batted .433 down the stretch. No way we trade him. His ETA is irrelevant. That kid is a beast; only bat I have seen that I would put in the same sentence as Montero’s.
Pruf, QFT. You too have seen Sanchez’s bat; so you know of what I speak. Not for Garza.
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:36 am
“It’s to the point where, the names put into these hypotheticals don’t even matter. Romine is Sanchez, etc. They’re all the same guy, and they’re ALL available…for Matt friggin’ Garza for chrissake.”
If you are going to trade Sanchez, you better darn well know what you are trading. No way the Yankees trade Sanchez in a package, and not for anything less than a young ace.
///
ANd it’s not even like Sanchez is some elite bat playing a corner position. Guy’s a friggin’ catcher, and virtually no one thinks he won’t stay at catcher.
“Despite our wishes otherwise, if they add Kuroda, Oswalt or Garza their starters are certainly better than the Yankees”
Seriously? And you are getting that notion where? From the job Beckett, Lester, and Bucholz experiment from last year? Or are you turning a blind eye to the way they folded?
I would take CC, Nova, Hughes and Freddy any day of the week and call them one of the best rotations in the game. That’s how much faith I have in what they bring to the table!
Beckett has turned into one of the biggest wild cards in the game.
I’m not sold on Oswalt OR Kuroda so I’m not worried about their addition to any AL East rotation – or any AL rotation for that matter.
Garza, well that’s a horse of a different color. He improves any rotation.
austinmac, you and I are about as far apart on our perspectives on the Yanks and Sux as two people can be.
All that remains is for the season to be played out!
I wouldn’t trade Sanchez plus Betances for Garza…..that’s too much upside to give up for 2 years of a pitcher……and that would arguably be more talent than was given up for both Latos and Gio.
Fair market value for Garza should be south of both of those deals……if its not than I wouldn’t deal. I think Garza would be a perfect addition though if Theo has his heart right in the price.
If they could move half of AJs salary and aquire Garza then the payroll stays virtually the same as it is now……..and the team is significantly improved over the next two seasons.
OK.
So we’re not tradin’ Montero, the 2 B’s, Williams (good name there for Of’ers), or Sanchez.
Everyone else fair game ?
I think so.
Also, Sanchez is an exceptional talent, but Cubs have a lot of catching depth, no?
The cubbies need a 3rd baseman. Among other things.
“Even if I chewed a week’s worth of Peyote buttons I still can’t see the Sux as the best team in the AL East”
Perhaps that’s because they’re not And so far from it they will probably come in third at best in the sweepstakes?
*********
“The Red Sox led the league in runs. It was their pitching that killed them in September. They are working on that.”
Actually it was their hitting, pitching, AND fielding that killed them in September. If you remember (maybe you don’t?) Ellsbury was the only person carrying them for quite a while in September. Ah, fond memories.
“They are working on that.”
Could you eludicate please? I would like to know how they are working on that because you appparently have some inside information!
If someone handed us Garza on a silver platter I would say thank you sir!!! Short of that, patience works for me.
Even if it takes him that long, he’s worth the wait. The point is, your starting point is shaky, and that is that Sanchez may not hit at the ML level. He’s already got immense power and tremendous bat speed. YOu want to just throw names around, fine, but don’t try to float it that he “may not hit.” That’s just nonsense. Sorry.
================================
It’s not nonsense. Nonsense is saying with 100% certainty that he will hit. I’m not ignoring the kid’s potential, but the fact is he hit .256 and struck once every third at bat at Low A. Now he did do that as an 18 year old, demonstrated enormous power potential, and improved as the year went on. But he also demonstrated there’s a ton of work ahead, both at the plate and behind it. Does he have a better chance to be an offensive star in MLB than about 95% of the 19 year olds presently in the game. Absolutely. Is it lock that he will be? Absolutely not.
We can all agree the Yanks have not produced on the starting pitching front anyone who has had the results of Garza yet in the past several seasons.
I am seeing only Banuelos reaching the level of Garza or possibly going beyond it as an undersized lefty with good stuff (Banuelos could be Santana, he could be Romero, he could be Wandy, heck he could be Kazmir – we just do not know yet – but the upside is there). It appears all other pitchers are fair game – and reports have indicated that Theo is looking for pitching. So do you say to Theo take any four pitchers not named Banuelos for Garza? Or would Theo insist on Banuelos at all costs??
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 9:38 am
Maine, I think Aceves would do fine as a back-end rotation pitcher for Sox. He does have 4 pitches. Although, I still think they add someone and use Aceves as a long man.
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I know he has the weapons. I’m not sure his health will allow it.
If I recall he had back trouble with the Yankees when they tried to use him as a starter.
dogface, Sanchez batted .433 down the stretch and was adjusting to long season plus working on his catching game, so I wouldn’t get hung up on his overall BA. He also bat .295 with runners in scoring position, if you want to look at stats. I saw him hit some balls in Lakewood that were Montero-loke. That bat is game-changing.
*Montero-like*
Its never a sure thing that any minor leaguer will hit in the big leagues……especially ones that haven’t played above the sally league. Sanchez is a great talent and Im excited about having him……but you have to temper expectations on these kids until they at least do it at AA.
Also, Sanchez is an exceptional talent, but Cubs have a lot of catching depth, no?
============================
Don’t know. BA list a C as their 6th best prospect, but sounds as though he may be more about his work behind the plate than next to it.
Word is it’s young pitching they are seeking for Garza.
JAP,
Sanchez is a terrible catcher at this point. He has an enormous amount of passed balls. I disagree “no one thinks he won’t stay a catcher”. The jury is still very much out on that. Simply, look at his stats. Defensively they are far worse than Montero’s ever were.
He has a lot of power, but he strikes out a great deal. A think Williams is far more likely to be a big time player and he is the one I hold on to if a choice were to be made.
dogface, he’s a lock to hit in the majors. You think that’s hyperbole, I suggest you go watch this guy hit. Then come back and tell me it’s hyperbole.
……………….with him makes me happy I haven’t eaten my breakfast.
—————–
Big bowl of cookie dough?
Yea id probably given Theo any 3 pitchers not named Banuelos, Nova, or Noesi……unfortunately those are the ones teams really likely want.
To hug or not to hug ? That is the question.
And who and how much ?
Maine, as a starter or going back to when we overused Aceves in relief in 2009? But he was a solid starter when I used to see him pitch in Trenton and his velo rose after that. So, I’d be curious to know what Aceves physical makeup is over the long haul.
MTU December 29th, 2011 at 10:08 am
To hug or not to hug ? That is the question.
And who and how much ?
____
If you hug five prospects out of 500, does that make you a prospect hugger? That is mathematically illogical, no?
“If I recall he had back trouble with the Yankees when they tried to use him as a starter.”
And he also started to wear down at the end of the season due to the amount of overuse on the part of the Sux (who were in a position where they were out of choices).
I can’t see him faring well as a starter strictly due to his back issues. I think at some point the wear and tear would catch up with him.
*******
I personally think Theo would be crazy not to hold onto Garza, but of course if some team is dumb enough to offer him way beyond what they should, he’d be equally crazy not to go for it.
Wait and watch.
Does anyone else thrill to the excitement of the unknown? I just love watching all of this stuff unfold and never get nervous about the Yankees so nothing puts my stomach in knots (except posters who overrate the Sux based on nothing but fear – that’s all it could be at this point!)
dogface, Sanchez batted .433 down the stretch and was adjusting to long season plus working on his catching game
===================
Which is kinda what I meant when I said he got better as the season went on.
I’m not ignoring the potential. It’s obvious and enormous. I’m just not banking on it is all I’m sayin’. Long way to go.
YF-
Provide your own definition. You’re a smart cookie.
FWIS, What you say is very reasonable.
Every team should have it’s own list of Eliot Ness players.
I’m sure the Yankees do too.
Unfortunately the others don’t seem to be attracting what we want at the present moment.
I personally think Theo would be crazy not to hold onto Garza, but of course if some team is dumb enough to offer him way beyond what they should, he’d be equally crazy not to go for it
===========================
They’ve already indicated that they’re gearing up for the old “5 year rebuilding plan”. Some argument that you’d want Garza to be part of that and some that he’ll be long gone before it’s done.
Trisha, plan to go to any PawSox games now that SWB plays 12 games there? I am hoping to at least catch the August series up there, when I typically am in Newport.
Here are the dates:
April 24-25
July 28-29
August 14-17, 31
Sept. 1-3
The general opinions I’ve read on Sanchez’s defense is that he has the ability and body type to potentially remain behind the plate and that his issues are technique and experience related…..basically fixable problems potentially…….everything is potentially with prospects
austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am
JAP,
Sanchez is a terrible catcher at this point. He has an enormous amount of passed balls. I disagree “no one thinks he won’t stay a catcher”. The jury is still very much out on that. Simply, look at his stats. Defensively they are far worse than Montero’s ever were.
He has a lot of power, but he strikes out a great deal. A think Williams is far more likely to be a big time player and he is the one I hold on to if a choice were to be made.
///
Sanchez is not Melky Mesa or Jorge Vasquez. He’s going to make adjustments to the soft stuff. As far as being “a terrible catcher,” his athleticism is going to help him get past the passed balls and his arm is strong. He’s learning technique, and that’s an ongoing process. This guy is 19 years old. IF these guys had it all figured out they’d just come out of their backyards and go directly to the majors. He’s got tremendous tools. There’s a reason he’s in the top 100 while still in A ball.
Have you ever seen an organization with the level of resources and the revenue streams that the Yankees have act as passive as NY has? Oh sure, we never cease to hear how crazy the market is, or how slow the market is or how ridiculous the demands are and how all this impacts the almighty budget. Yankees don’t want to pay a yankee tax or subsidize their competitors we hear.
Yet, it seems as though Cashman and Girardi never fail to take a chance to talk that for the NYY it is always about championships. If that is true then what has NY actually done since the off season 3 years ago to indicate that it is all about championships? How many guys have they passed up on? What investment are they making in international FA? in draft targets and signings? in minor league coaches to teach these guys? Or maybe they don’t need coaching, after all guys like Nunez are so polished when they come up….
If Soler is as promising as we read or Cespedes has as much talent as we hear and read and are available why has NY not pounced on these guys yet? Is Maxwell, Dickerson, Curtis the near term answers? Yeah right.
This team needs a #2 starter for 2012. They do not have it now. What is holding them back?
Is Nova or Hughes the #2 guy? If ATL can sell off Lowe why can’t NY sell off AJ? Is ownership flat out unwilling to pay a portion of his salary? Does this mean they are willing to grant a starting rotation slot to a guy that has been singularly one of the 10 worst SP in the ML the last two seasons?
Yet they continue to charge a premium for fans to attend games. How long can that continue? Maybe Hal and company are betting NYY fans are naive and will continue to pay a premium to watch a franchise without the same level of committment to winning that their father had.
IMO TOR and TB are the up and comers in the division, NY better understand they have to fight to stay on top.
No wonder Hal has tightened his man purse strings.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-seeks-.....15952.html
The Yanks have 500 minor leaguers? Damn that’s a big farm system!
I never consider any prospect “off limits” because it doesn’t make sense to do so. I would trade any player in the system Montero included for Felix Hernandez or David Price, for example. I wouldn’t trade four or five of my best kids for one of those guys however.
That said, I’m pleased the Yanks have placed high value on holding on to quality prospects. That’s how you avoid losing Jay Buhner, Willie McGee, Al Leiter et al.
I don’t see them spending heavily for a pitcher until they see what Phil Hughes has in the spring. If you add a starter you have to figure who that starter is replacing.
If the Red Sox don’t address their rotation as a follow up to their other moves then they are a worse team than they were a year ago on paper going into ST.
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:09 am
Maine, as a starter or going back to when we overused Aceves in relief in 2009? But he was a solid starter when I used to see him pitch in Trenton and his velo rose after that. So, I’d be curious to know what Aceves physical makeup is over the long haul.
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Don’t get me wrong. I liked Aceves when he was with the Yankees. It just seemed like his back was an issue and I suspect that is part of the reason he wasn’t resigned. Also I think the RS would miss him out of the BP. Without him I think the collapse would have been even worse. He logged alot of innings for them and saved the other arms from being exposed as the fatigue set in.
I would trade any player in the system Montero included for Felix Hernandez or David Price,
///
Nope, I wouldn’t deal Montero for a starting pitcher. He’s the glue for the middle of the lineup.
86, yep, much will be determined by which way Phil Hughes’ fortunes go.
YF – I will DEFINITELY be going to some of those games. Thanks for the heads up!
And when you know exactly when you’ll be here in August and what dates you’d be available to go to the games, let me know (and how many tickets we’ll need. Don’t know if you come here solo or with BF). I will get the tickets immediatelyt!
It will be very cool getting to see the kids you and J Al talk about all the time! GB too.
Hughes could be a big x factor for the Yanks this year……but ideally you’d like to plan on that being the icing on the cake …..and not necessarily count on it. He’s going to be in shape…..and he’s going to be very motivated ….but what you’d want in a perfect world is him coming out guns blazing out of the 4th or 5th spot and being the guy that puts you over the top
86, the hyperbole was intentional in order to make a point about the derisive usage of the term prospect hugger.
As for categorizing prospects as off limits or not, someone has to differentiate between prospects in terms of some kind of hierarchy of talent, rather than collapsing them all into one unranked muddy pool of indistinguishable, fungible ball players, as is done here on LoHud. The Yankees themselves rank their players this way, and they undoubtedly have a group of prospects they won’t trade for lesser light #2 pitchers. And why the rush to get one for an overpay? We would be stupid not to be patient and see what we have in our own system, specifically in the case of seeing what Hughes will bring this year. Why overreact or react prematurely? Doesn’t make sense to waste our A prospects for a #2 pitcher; especially considering the talent of our A prospects.
Good morning all.
I still can not come to grips with the new wave of Yankees thinking, as it relates to the LT, and spending to improve the team.
If the product on the field is better, and they go deeper into the PS, that negates any increae in the LT.
Example, I would sign Cepedes and Solar, one to start, one to MilB.
If the tearms were not crazy, I’d go after Garza, (cost effective for 2 more years) or sign Kuroda to a 1 year deal. It goes without saying, the Yankees need a #2 SP, now, not at the TDL. Other teams have improved, and standing pat tells me the Yankees are satisfied at simply being competitive, and making bigger profits, rather than taking the attitude that winning the WS should be the goal each and every year.
There are simply too many questions concerning our SP to go into the season with what we now have. I can’t remember a time when improving the team, when it was just about the money, and not losing top prospects, the Yankees sat back and did nothing.
It’s a shame the sons have lost the competitive edge The Boss lived by.
Trisha,
Yes, we do disagree, but that is what the board is for, I suppose.
You asked me yesterday about Kuroda. His average fastball is 92 mph. To put that in perspective, Burnett’s average was 92.7. His stuff is not declining at all. He walks slightly over 2 per nine innings so his control is very good. His ground ball rate is also very good. He was ninth in the league in ERA.
I can’t imagine he would not help the Yankee staff. He has the stuff and showed his mental toughness by succeeding in the US wheen many others have not.
Watching young players come up is fun. However, the best young starters are not ready. The season long AAA guys don’t seem to excite anyone except those on this board. No one seems willing to give anything of value when Cashman offers them up.
Since when do tthe Yankees sit back and not try to improve? Since last trade deadline. They are one of the few contenders who are not making an effort.
I am totally counting on Hughes to have everything in order. I just can’t suspend my disbelief enough to think that a guy with the stuff Hughes showed in the past doesn’t have the ability to bring it back.
trisha, sounds like a plan!
I haven’t been to McCoy in y-e-a-r-s! You can get a preview if you go to the April games. That should be one heckuva pitching staff! I am still so p’d off at the Mets for blocking SWB playing in SI or Newark but at least Yankee fans in multiple areas of the East will now get to see a few extra SWB games this season.
It was never about his stuff it was his velocity.
I am still so p’d off at the Mets for blocking SWB playing in SI or Newark
=========================
At least karma bit ‘em back.
So the AAA Nomadic Yankees are playing all their games on the road?
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:33 am
86, the hyperbole was intentional in order to make a point about the derisive usage of the term prospect hugger.
As for categorizing prospects as off limits or not, someone has to differentiate between prospects in terms of some kind of hierarchy of talent, rather than collapsing them all into one unranked muddy pool of indistinguishable, fungible ball players, as is done here on LoHud. The Yankees themselves rank their players this way, and they undoubtedly have a group of prospects they won’t trade for lesser light #2 pitchers. And why the rush to get one for an overpay? We would be stupid not to be patient and see what we have in our own system, specifically in the case of seeing what Hughes will bring this year. Why overreact or react prematurely? Doesn’t make sense to waste our A prospects for a #2 pitcher; especially considering the talent of our A prospects.
///
Yes, ma’am. We can always make a move if need be in-season. Do people here really think if we do nothing, we’ll be left in the dust by the AS Break? LOL.
Austin, did you ever think that maybe the Yankees are improving by not making a deal right now? Sometimes inaction is a form of taking action. We have plenty of time to add on. And why make a trade when Kuroda is still out there for us (if he plans to pitch in mlb) and if Hal can be convinced to allocate the funds to sign him?
Further, which AAA pitchers? The ones lauded on this board are the same ones the Yankees themselves esteem, as do all the so-called prospect pundits. Where is the incongruity in that? Or are you talking about the Warrens, Phelps and Mitchells of the world?
Lets not forget that “The Boss’” competitiveness led to a 1982-95 drought that was a horrific series of bad teams, bad trades and bad FA signings.
The Yanks pitching is better than it was a year ago today, so what’s the rush? Some here advocate signing Kuroda and dumping AJ. If they did a “Derek Lowe” deal with would in essence be spending more than $ 20 M for Kuroda’s spot in the rotation… $ 12 M salary + $ 4.8 M tax + $ 10 M to AJ’s new team – $ 6.5 M tax savings = $ 20.8.
Does anyone really think Kuroda is worth $ 20 M more than AJ?
I do, however hope they sign Cespedes and/or Soler.
dogface, yep. 37 games in Rochester, I believe, because of the Mets paranoic territorial imperative.
“Since when do tthe Yankees sit back and not try to improve? Since last trade deadline. They are one of the few contenders who are not making an effort.”
Perhaps they feel that if the players they have play they way they should they will be fine? And I disagree that they are not trying to improve. But improving doesn’t necessarily mean going out of the system and getting new players. It’s all on how you look at it mac.
You asked me yesterday about Kuroda. His average fastball is 92 mph. To put that in perspective, Burnett’s average was 92.7. His stuff is not declining at all.”
Actually, mac, his stuff is declining. It doesn’t matter what your fastball is if you’re not putting it where it needs to be. His numbers are declining the way you would expect numbers to decline on a pitcher who is approaching 37. I’m not saying they have declined catastrophically. But his BAA, OPS, SLG and OBP have all gotten worse. Same with his P/PA, P/IP, P/GS, K/9 and K/BB. While I think Kuroda has a lot of value to the Dodgers and maybe in the NL, I just have major apprehension about his coming to the AL, the AL East in particular.
I’ve watched Kuroda over the past several years, and last year in particular I noticed more inconsistency than had been there before.
I tend to look askance at any thought of immediate rewards when pitchers switch leagues, especially NL to AL. And with Kuroda’s age, I just think he turns into a very big risk.
Again, JMO
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:42 am
Austin, did you ever think that maybe the Yankees are improving by not making a deal right now? Sometimes inaction is a form of taking action. We have plenty of time to add on. And why make a trade when Kuroda is still out there for us (if he plans to pitch in mlb) and if Hal can be convinced to allocate the funds to sign him?
Further, which AAA pitchers? The ones lauded on this board are the same ones the Yankees themselves esteem, as do all the so-called prospect pundits. Where is the incongruity in that? Or are you talking about the Warrens, Phelps and Mitchells of the world?
///
Folks just want to make a move for it’s own sake. There’s NOTHING out there that warrants a loaded outbound package.
I kinda screwed up the math…. IF the Yanks could get someone to take on $ 6.5 M of AJ’s salary and did a Kuroda deal the net cost of making that change is more like $ 5-6 M since teh acquiring team would have ALL of AJ’s salary for luxury tax purposes.
It’s still an exspensive upgrade…. and I doubt you could find someone to pay AJ $ 6.5 M
Again, here’s the SWB article on sched:http://citizensvoice.com/sport.....z1hwHxB49w
Kruoda’s “decline” in control is being slightly exaggerated… If the Yankees had 2 pitchers better than him, we wouldn’t be talking about needing to sign him. He’s a no brainer, IMO… 1 year deals for any amount of money are like a free pass for a team with the resources the yankees have. This makes the all around staff better and forces Burnett/Garcia/Hughes/Nova to show up and make sure that they actually deserve their spot in the rotation.
Or are you talking about the Warrens, Phelps and Mitchells of the world?
///
YF, If those 3 guys were in Boston’s AAA system, they’d automatically be the top three close-to-majors guys, and I bet Warren would be talked up and wind up in the Boston rotation.
Were that the case, some folks here would “overrate” them and put them on par with Banuelos and Betances. Just the way a certain type of Yankee fan rolls.
I haven’t been to a Triple-A game in years, just the Sallie League. What’s the ticket prices for SWB? JAP, as a Southern friend would put it, I’m in total “agrreance” with you and Yankeefem.
Tom -
SWB games were $9
Hi Tom, milb tix run from @$10-12, depending on where you sit.
Kruoda’s “decline” in control is being slightly exaggerated…
=============================
Control doesn’t seem much an issue for him. I find the career low GB rate and career high LD rate and the 72 extra base hits allowed a little troubling though.
Control has never been an issue for Kuroda. His LD rates ARE up this year though. Also he threw his slider much less than usual. I still wonder if that neck injury wasn’t a factor.
tomingeorgia December 29th, 2011 at 10:54 am
I haven’t been to a Triple-A game in years, just the Sallie League. What’s the ticket prices for SWB? JAP, as a Southern friend would put it, I’m in total “agrreance” with you and Yankeefem.
///
LOL, tom. I think it’s safe to make a GENERAL assumption that Cashman is in “agrreance”, of not “total.” But I’m not sure he wouldn’t put ANY of the top five in a deal, so for me there’s still some unrest. The $$$ issue, if it’s genuine, may mean, worst case, they make a trade rather than sign a Kuroda, for example. For me, he’s an insurance policy for the younger guys, as well as for this season’s rotation.
*IF not “total”.
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Hi Tom, milb tix run from @$10-12, depending on where you sit.
***********************************************************
SWB tickets were $7 for upper level, and $9 for lower level. The great thing about Milb is all the promo’s they run. In SWB they would run prom’s all season where you got 4 game tickets, 4 hats, and all you could eat at the designated vendor, for $29. It don’t get better than that.
Here in NC, the single A teams charge more than that.
ID – I’m not an automatic fan of a pitcher who has pitched in the weakest league in the NL, nor do I take his numbers as anything that automatically translates to the Bronx. And I would never take a flyer on someone as a one-year rental hoping that at the age of 37 he’s going to walk right in and master the AL East. Those are my concerns. Not necessarily how much he has declined in the NL West! Roger Clemens stunk out the joint for at least the first half of his first season with the Yankees and he had spent his entire career in the AL East!
Too much risk, and unnecessary risk at that. Yankees don’t need Kuroda. They can manage without him.
I repeat, while I think Kuroda has a lot of value to the Dodgers and maybe in the NL, I just have major apprehension about his coming to the AL, the AL East in particular.
Garza had a K/BB over 4 against lefties in 2011. He’d be very tough on Boston’s lineup and I think Theo knows that. Theo is said to be seeking young pitching so I suspect a deal doesn’t get done without Banuelos being the centerpiece. He’s the one prospect I wouldn’t trade. The rest are fair game for me.
Big Al,
The lower prices must be b/c of the geographical location. Lehigh Valley (AAA) and Trenton (AA) tix are both higher than tix in Moosic.
Anyone else think a 3 way trade makes sense between the Padres-Yankees-Cubs, with the key pieces being Garza headed to NY and Rizzo headed to the Cubs?
Banuelos is a better prospect than anybody dealt in either of the Latos or Gio deals……
# Ruby Red Sock December 29th, 2011 at 10:41 am
It was never about his stuff it was his velocity.
—————————————-
And of course his health
hey trisha, I read back and saw your list of activities. You’re a true renaissance gal, and I would be honored to be on your Christmas cookies’ list.
here’s the thing, though, on Kuroda. It wouldn’t be like when Javy came here sporting an 89 mph fb. Kuroda can throw 92 and has some weapons. He’s also a very short term commitment and an investment in him is also one in Banuelos and Betances – leaving them in peace to build their arms and continue to hone their craft. I see really ZERO risk in Kuroda. He’s not dependent on sheer guile, like Freddy is, for instance. And Freddy has done alright for us.
Hi, Brett-
Here, I agree with you, about Garza. I think he’d be a fine addition to the Yanks’ starting rotation, as he’s battle-proven in the AL East. I wouldn’t deal Banuelos, but I think I might Betances. Reason being, Banueolos is LH; and Betances, being a tree, might well require a few more seasons to mature, at least. Just my thought.
Blake,
And it’s possible the Padres and Athletics required Banuelos as the centerpiece in which case Cashman had no choice but to pass. It’s almost like teams know the Yankees are more motivated to protect Banuelos over Montero.
blake December 29th, 2011 at 11:07 am
Banuelos is a better prospect than anybody dealt in either of the Latos or Gio deals……
_____
QFT. GM’s don’t just assume the exchangeability of prospects in these deals like fans do. There is a reason that Banuelos wouldn’t be made available in such a deal. Sanchez too would not be a player Cashman would include, as interchangeable as people see him with Romine, it just won’t happen.
YF -
You may be correct. Like I said, here in NC they charge $12 – $15 for single a games, and they sell out most games. NC is a hot bed for baseball, and if a ML team ever moved here, say Charlotte, they’d do real well at the gate. We have football, BB and hockey, just no MLB, I was hoping the rumors of Tampa moving to Charlotte were true, I’d get tickets to see all the Yankees games here.
*interchangeability* I meant to say.
Big Al,
I completely agree with your earlier post. The Yankees of the past 15 years would spend if needed to fill in gaps. They no longer will.
And yes, I am talking about Mitchell, Warren and Phelps. They are not highly regarded. That may be able to start in the MLB. I hope they are because they are going to be needed when the usual pitching injuries and issues arise.
If we sign Kuroda and Hughes comes back like some of us think/hope he can, why then Kuroda really lengthens the rotation.
“Anyone else think a 3 way trade makes sense between the Padres-Yankees-Cubs, with the key pieces being Garza headed to NY and Rizzo headed to the Cubs”
I’ve mentioned that before and yea I kinda think its possible…..3 ways deals are tough to predict…the Padres would need to get a lot to make it worthwhile though and so would the Cubs as both are rebuilding ……so the Yanks may end up paying more in prospects with that route than just trading one on one with the Cubs.
Joe,
But I would deal for Garza if Theo would accept a package centered on Montero instead of Banuelos. I don’t think he would. And to add on to something Mad Prince said last night, I think the front office is holding Montero if an elite pitcher like Felix, Josh Johnson, Cole Hamels or Matt Cain becomes available. If not, they sign Hamels, Cain or even Zack Greinke for 2013.
YF -
I’m sure once they finish the refurb job on the SWB stadium, the ticket prices will go up.
Joe from Long Island,
FYI: Betances is very adept at getting out LHB, against whom his curve is devastating.
Bret -
Soory, but I’m glad you’re not the GM, giving up Montero for Garza is a bad deal.
JFTR, Warren can throw in the mid-90s. He’s got an assortment of fastballs and changes speeds well and when he’s locating, he can work both sides nicely. He’s not going to command a great return in a trade, but teams will know he can get people out and he could be part of a package. Otherwise, he can help out at the back of the rotation, and as a long man.
Useful pitcher.
Have a good day, all.
Anyone else think a 3 way trade makes sense between the Padres-Yankees-Cubs, with the key pieces being Garza headed to NY and Rizzo headed to the Cubs
================================
Not sure where involving the Padres and Rizzo would serve to reduce the demand for high end minor league pitching from the Yankees.
Brett – you sure don’t like Montero, do you,
Honestly, I think there are a few issues here. One is price. Another is the dramatically increasing premium and importance being placed on young players – they more younger/athletic (esp. in the new post-PED society), cost controlled, and have their prime years to look forward to. Although the game is awash in $$$, the new CBA is blocking some teams, like the Yankees and Red Sox, from spending like drunken sailors due to concerns over a rapidly increasing luxury tax.
That, and realizing that having the best roster doesn’t guarantee WS wins – witness the Cards two months ago.
Sigh, Cash and Hal haven’t called me lately, so I don’t know for sure, but I think this is the new reality.
Big Al,
Not a bad deal if you factor in Arod’s ailments, age and prognosis for full-time DH duty which may come sooner or later. Not if you factor in a long-term commitment to Russell Martin. And not if you consider Garza a clear number 2 which he is. He’s murder on lefties and would mow down Boston. Plus he has playoff experience and is AL East tested. I would trade Montero + filler for him but honestly Theo could do better elsewhere IMHO.
*sooner than later.
JAP – good to know, thanks.
Brett, you sure don’t like Montero, do you
J Al, you are already on my cookie list. That was an automatic.
Why give up anything to get a player if you don’t really need him? I will never be sold on a one-year rental coming over from the NL West at the age of 37. Never ever ever ever ever.
Kind of never.
And here’s the risk. Giving up prospects you don’t need to give up!
Anyway, if I’m proven wrong, then it’s all good anyway. Whatever the Yanks do always makes sense to me because they’ve proven to be much smarter than I at this stuff!!!
“Not sure where involving the Padres and Rizzo would serve to reduce the demand for high end minor league pitching from the Yankees.”
That depends on what they think of Rizzo Id say…..if you could work something where Rizzo, Warren, and Phelps went to the Cubs and Betances went to SD then that’s something you’d consider. I don’t know how they value Rizzo though and if that’d be enough for Theo……..or the Padres. Only way it makes sense is if Theo values Rizzo enough to keep the total pitching price for the Yanks down…….
I think Banuelos, barring injury, will be at least a quality MLB starter. He could be a very good one. He must be held onto.
Betances may have more upside with his size and velocity. However, I think his likelihood of becoming a quality MLB pitcher is much lower. His control is an issue he still is fighting. Remember MLB hitters are far more selective and walk rates increase unless control improves.
Despite not being a surefire catcher, Montero does have remarkable battting abilities. He showed a tendency to chase very bad breaking balls last year. But, he is young. If he swings at strikes, he will hit and hit well.
Montero is about as close to untouchable as a prospect can be for me…..
Also don’t think the Pads would be willing to part with Rizzo.
Now going for real.
LYA!!!
Bret -
I would offer the Cubs, Warren, Noesi and a position player for Garza. I would offer to throw in AJ, taking back 1/2 his contract.
Im guessin’ Hal has earmarked roughly $4 Mill for either Jones or Naka, with Jones being the Yankee preference. Should Jones continue to play hard-to-get, Hal, (not wanting to lose out on both players), will sign Naka at the last minute, (next week), and wave goodbye to Jones. That should be the last significant $$$ spent onna player for the 2012 Yankee team. Once July 31 roles around, Cashman is gonna be looking for cheap Rent-A-Players in order to fill Yankee needs, and keep the $189\2014 goal within reach. No-Depost- No Return players will be in Cashman’s cross hair, and he will not sacrifice cheap, young, star players that will save the Yanks $$$ down the road. Upper mid-level prospects will be used outta the loaded Yankee Farm System to garner these Rentals. The Only player with a significant contract that Hal would consider trading for come July 31 would be Lincecum, and the deal would NOT be contingent upon an extension. The negotiations between SF and The Freak are beginning to get sticky, so this possibility does have legitimate merit. I do not see Hal doing likewise should Cain be thrown to the wolves.
They should trade Montero for Joe Saunders.
Got to go, later Y’all.
Hopefully, Cash got trading Montero out of his system. If not, we are in trouble.
Big Al,
Theo could stumble upon a better offer if he fielded a call while tripping out on some rainforest mushroom he found soul-searching in Guatemala or wherever it is he disappeared to.
Yankeefeminista,
No, the Yankees are not improving by inactivity. Right now, they don’t have Chavez, Jones or Colon. Each played a part in last years team. Pena and Maxwell fall far short of last year’s bench. Colon pitched great for half the season. Those wins still count.
The only improvement I see is having Montero all year.
To predict who will rebound and who will regress is very speculative. Granderson had a career year. Will he be as good? Will Teixiera rebound or continue his three year slide? Will AROD be better or worse? And on and on.
Frankly, I would like some understganding of how losing players without adding is a good thing when none of the pitchers in MILB with good upsides are ready and the bench replacements are, to put it kindly, are questionable. .
Joe from LI,
I like Montero but not for this team as currently configured and the main thing is I think offense is much easier to come by through money alone via free agency.
However, at this point, my stance would be Montero + filler or bust. If other GM’s insist on Banuelos as the centerpiece, forget it. If other GM’s want Montero + other valuable pieces like Nunez, forget it. It’s Montero + filler for that starting pitcher or sacrifice one year (2012) and wait for Hamels, Cain or even Greinke. It’s not complicated. It just sucks they might have to roll the dice a second year in a row on a shaky rotation. And it is shaky.
If they have 4 million earmarked for Jonesy…….Id rather roll the dice and give 5-7 million to Cespedes…..JMO
I’m puzzled by all the sure thing in pitching people. The Yankees at present are six deep and that’s before Warren and the B’s. All pitchers go through, at least slumps during the season and some injuries. So you need to consider seven pitchers as your starting staff. By mid season the Yankee staff would be nine deep in both quality and quantity. Noesi is twenty five, hitting 98 on the gun and has pitched in the Majors. It’s time to plug him in much as Nova was last year, he’s ready. Holding him back for another year is plain dithering, they’ve already done that once. You start him at AAA and he’s the first call up if he doesn’t force his way onto the roster. It’s great to build up assets, at some point you have to use them or you’ve frithered away your chance by going for the sure thing.
Noesi is twenty five, hitting 98 on the gun and has pitched in the Majors. It’s time to plug him in much as Nova was last year, he’s ready
Ready for what, throwing out his shoulder? Noesi is not ready for the workload that Nova put in last year at all. This is why he should be the 7th option, behind CC, Nova, Hughes, Garcia, Burnett and KU RO DA.
- BLAKE -
Your talkin’ several years for Cespedes at that $4 Mill per. The Yanks do NOT want multi year committments on the books with 2014 in mind.
As long as there’s a chance Noesi can pitch on par with Kuroda for 17 million less, Kuroda is not in the plans. I’ll take that 98 MPH fastball and the poise he showed in 2011.
I would trade Banuelos and Betances in the same deal before Montero alone.
Noesi threw 160 innings in 2010…..I don’t think stretching him back out will be THAT big of a deal. With the innings he’s gotten in winter ball he should be able to go 150+ without issue. I wish they had just let him throw 180 at AAA last year…….but nothing you can do now.
LGY, I wouldn’t trade any of the 3. And not for a #2.
Bo,
The Yankees have AAA depth. What people, me included, want is a pitcher to pair with CC at the top of the rotation. I don’t see that pitcher. Then, the rest can compete for places 3-5.
Blake, I also agree on taking a Cespedes risk. I just think he is very far from the Yankees mind and predict they will not be players. They will not assume a multi year debt. Heck, they aren’t willing, apparently, to assume a one year debt.
“Your talkin’ several years for Cespedes at that $4 Mill per. The Yanks do NOT want multi year committments on the books with 2014 in mind.”
Yea but they waste that much every year on LOOGYs, 4th outfielders, etc…….it’d be a gamble but the payoff coukd be big and could lock up an outfield spot for years…..if they believe he can adjust to big league pitching its a worthwhile gamble
I don’t recall Noesi hitting 98 MPH at Any time last season. Must be that Winter Ball Scout named Gilligan that clocked Noesi at that figure. I hear he’s using some sorta contraption involving a coconut that was gerry-rigged by The Professor.
I haven’t been around much lately, so I am sure this has been thoroughly discussed, but can someone explain to me how the Yanks will be both AL East competitive AND under the luxury tax threshold in 2014 when that means they will need to have signed 22 players for not more than $115MM, when one of those 22 players will be Robinson Cano?
With or without Montero I think CC’s sidekick will be one of the following:
Matt Garza
Felix Hernandez
Matt Cain
Cole Hamels
Zack Greinke
Josh Johnson
I just don’t want to ride a shaky rotation a second year in a row. It is what it is and I’ve accepted it. Or maybe I just drank too much green tea today.
austinmac, you misinterpreted what I was saying. Inactivity is a form of taking action when you don’t overpay in a trade. That way we don’t delete something important that we don’t have to or shouldn’t give up. Letting players evolve is a form of improvement. Case in point, Nova. Obviously, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sign players to bolster the team–bench, Kuroda, etc. if it makes sense. I have said that over and over. Sign Kuroda, but don’t overpay for Garza. the point is, why make a move prematurely and potentially to our detriment, when we can wait, see what we have and survey the landscape and pounce on something better, if need be?
Noesi reportedly left last night’s game after 8 batters and in the middle of an inning. Has anyone heard more of this?
Phil Hughes threw 176 innings in 2010 and then 74 last year…..are they going to put him back on an innings limit too? Noesi and Hughes are roughly the same age……its go time with them if they are going to become big league starters….
- BLAKE -
“Go time” meaning trade bait.
“Go time” meaning trade bait.”
No….meaning ifs time to start taking the training wheels off and seeing what they can do…..obviously this is the case with Hughes but Noesi is ready …..he just needs a chance to get a spot and learn
yankeefeminsista,
If I felt the yankees were sitting and ready to pounce I would feel differently. I think they are just sitting. I don’t expect anything better to magically appear now or at the trade deadline.
They are, from all I have read and from my interpretation, unwilling to spend more money since they are close to their maximum budget.
George made his fair share of mistakes, but we could always know he would try to do what it takes to put the best team on the field. Now, they will try but at limited cost. That is an enormous difference in success going forward.
LGY,
I probably would as well…..especially if its a pitcher you’re trading for.
but can someone explain to me how the Yanks will be both AL East competitive AND under the luxury tax threshold in 2014
How is this even a serious concern? The Yankees are the only team that operates at the salary level they do… why do they need a $200mil payroll to compete in a league with zero other $200mil teams? Are you seriously sitting there thinking “OMG if the Yankees don’t have a $200million payroll they will be AWFUL!”???
They simply have to be smarter about who they sign going forward. Other teams make these decisions every day. What they will not be able to do is blow $40mil on the bullpen anymore, I don’t see how this is a bad thing.
If you’re the Yankees and you have a 36 year old 3b on the verge of needing to DH sooner than later because of his assortment of recent ailments (hip, groin, knee, shoulder) a history of steroid abuse for an undetermined duration and you had Russell Martin locked up to a long term deal and somebody was offering you a 21 year old hitter who profiles as a DH you would not forfeit your top two pitching prospects to acquire him. Especially not when you can shop for a hitter or a DH for that matter on the free agent market and acquire him for money alone.
austinmac,
Hopefully he wasn’t injured…but I also figure you’re wondering if he was pulled because of some kind of trade in the works.
“How is this even a serious concern? ”
Because they need to sign 22 players for under $115MM, and one of them will be Robinson Cano. There’s no way the Yanks will be under the luxury tax threshold in 2014, IMO.
“but can someone explain to me how the Yanks will be both AL East competitive AND under the luxury tax threshold in 2014″
They’ll need some of their prospects to hit….they currently have 75 million committed to 2014…..and a big chunk of that will have to go to Cano at some point…..but its certainly possible if their prospects pan out……if they don’t then it’ll be difficult to do both.
WHY – Why?! 29 other teams are able to sign 25 player for significantly less money. The Yankees can do the same. They just cane overpay to have the best at every position anymore. Boo freakin hoo.
- BLAKE -
I understood your meaning the 1st time. You guys have bandied about how whether the Yanks are decent at developing good SP’s, and I side with the guys that say they DO NOT. Cashman and Comp. have ruined Chamberlain, are now putting the finishing touches on Hughes, and just gettin’ started on putting the screws to Noesi. I say deal now, before these clowns further diminish the value of these players.
BTW, Just read our Josh Norris “scout” on Bryan Mitchell. He raves about what a “really good arm” he has, yet has already decided, from watching him in SHORT SEASON, that he is destined for a career out of the bullpen.
Nice.
Check in later.
Are you counting Granderson towards 2014 because he can be spun for a boatload of prospects when his contract is nearing the end.
Then again, can someone here name one single legitimate prospect Cashman has acquired from another team’s farm system?
To trade Montero because Alex might have to DH some, makes no sense at all. None.
Donny,
Im hoping they have learned from those mistakes…..especially they made with Joba.
By the way LGY, your views on Banuelos and Betances I pay no attention to, since you don’t really see them pitch, but in principle, I agree with that post of yours.
Not that I would trade both or either, but I agree that Montero is the most important “prospect” to the Yankees this season and going forward. He shares that distinction, IMO with Cano.
can someone here name one single legitimate prospect Cashman has acquired from another team’s farm system?
Ted Lilly from the Irabu trade…
Actualyl he’s the only one that comes to mind. Keep in mind though that they were not in the business of acquiring prospects for the last 15 years, they were in the business of selling them.
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
To trade Montero because Alex might have to DH some, makes no sense at all. None.
///
No, and it doesn’t make any sense to the Yankees, I expect. Thank goodness.
See you later.
They should extend Cano now if they can to both attempt to reduce the total years and help them budget for 2014……but they wont……they’ll probably wait and then have 20 million to spend to stay under and he’ll want 21 to sign.
By the way LGY, your views on Banuelos and Betances I pay no attention to, since you don’t really see them pitch
This couldn’t possibly be more rude or shortsighted, kudos Prufrock.
Are you counting Granderson towards 2014 because he can be spun for a boatload of prospects when his contract is nearing the end.
=================================
Only way Granderson can be spun for a boatload of prospects is if you spin him now, which I don’t see happening.
ANY, talk of trading ANY player, NOW must also be viewed with the bottom line\2014 in mind. It’s that simple. Trading away a cheap player like Montero has to make sence with both the roster AND 2014 in mind.
You’re right. To trade Montero just because makes no sense. But nobody said you’d be trading him for nothing and simply dumping him to clear DH for Arod. The idea in a trade is you fill a need. DH is not a need on this team. Period. Banuelos is the most valuable commodity in the system because right now pitching is a need.
“WHY – Why?! 29 other teams are able to sign 25 player for significantly less money. The Yankees can do the same. They just cane overpay to have the best at every position anymore. Boo freakin hoo.”
Let’s be serious for a second. All 29 other teams would not be competitive in the AL East. Right now there are 14 teams in the AL, and only 6 of them would be, to my thinking, competive in the AL East. 3 of those 6 are in the AL East. Now, the Yanks will be paying $47.5MM to ARod and Tex in 2014. Do you think they’ll get $47.5MM in production from them? They will have CC, and let’s say they sign Cano for $23MM. Then they’ll need to field a AL East style competitive team for $92MM. That would be a huge challenge for any team.
since you don’t really see them pitch
——-
Does this mean when I’ve seen them pitch it wasn’t under the mythical trance you watch them in?
Don’t forget that Granderson is FA too in a couple of years. They’ll need someone to replace Swisher (or sign him to an extension for about the same $$$ he is making now).
Cano has Boras as an agent and will demand a mega extension. And if Montero hits as well as you guys think he will, he is going to clean up in arbitration when he is eligible in 2014 (or ’15).
Won’t Robertson be a FA then too and need to be re-signed at “closer” money? They’ll need a SS to replace Jeter too. Gardner is probably not going to be around then, so who plays LF? If they sign Martin to an extension, that eats up $$$ as well.
It is pure fantasy that they are at $178 in 2014 unless they don’t resign any FAs (Grandy, Swisher, a pitcher, LF, etc.) and utilize their farm almost exclusively to fill holes.
So this 2014 thing is a bluff?
WYH – I am being totally serious… the difference between a $200mil payroll and a $170mil payroll is one stupid bad contract. Marte + Feliciano + Soriano + Burnett… there’s $40mil right off the top.
They will have absolutely no problem fielding a competitive team under the cap. Mind you that the St Louis Cardinals fielded a pretty competitive team last year for well under $100mil.
You are forgetting that Boston will be limited by som degree by this cap as well, and the necessary “level to compete” will be lower going forward with this cap in place.
Mad Prince,
I was concerned about injury when he is removed. Of course, an injury may be one that is gone in a few days. It makes me worry a bit since Noesi is critical to rotation depth.
Donnybrook,
It was Cashman who said Noesi threw 98 in the winter league. I too never saw anything approaching that this year even out of the pen.
Let’s get real here. the Yankees are basically theatre. You wanna attract paying customers? Well you better be running an A-List performance, involving A-List Stars in order to do that. It’s that simple though it does get very expensive.
Bret, Montero is more important to the Yankees than any other prospect that we have. He has more value to us and is more irreplaceable than Banuelos.
- austinmac -
Cashman doing his best Bill Veeck routine in order to inflate a guys value. Hogwash
LGY December 29th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
since you don’t really see them pitch
——-
Does this mean when I’ve seen them pitch it wasn’t under the mythical trance you watch them in?
///
No, LGY, it refers to the mythical starts of your “favorite prospect” Betances, which you’ve attended
.
I don’t think its a bluff ……I think they really want to get under that number for obvious reasons by 2014…..that said…..I think they are kidding themselves if they think they can stay under that number if they aren’t also putting a championship caliber team on the field ……the fans wont accept it and they’ll lose more money than they save.
WYH – Long story short, the problem you are are not getting past is that the Yankees put themselves in this bad situation over and over the last 10 years with overpriced contracts… and they ended up needing a $200mil payroll to compete because of all of the bad money they spent.
Almost every one of those bad deals will be gone, they will have 4 or 5 large contracts in 2014 and the rest will be filler, just like a regular team.
This by no means suggests they won’t be a competitive team. They are just operating at a level closer to the rest of the league. They are still going to be $50mil stronger than any other team in the league.
No, LGY, it refers to the mythical starts of your “favorite prospect” Betances, which you’ve attended
I would say “attending” a start in no way qualifies you to evaluate it so.. what on earth are you talking about?
You are not a scout, your opinion on Betances is no more valid than LGY’s… so stop acting like it is.
Prufrock
Sorry, my bacon intake combats Betances’ trance. Sabermetric home remedy.
Just curious. How many times did you see Betances and Banuelos last season?
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Bret, Montero is more important to the Yankees than any other prospect that we have. He has more value to us and is more irreplaceable than Banuelos.
///
This. But I think there’s really only one regular here (or maybe 1.5) who doesn’t at least partially recognize that.
Off the Small World
. Good one, Yankeefem.
ID-
I’m just not seeing it (and I’m assuming the luxury tax threshold in 2014 will be $189MM. If it’s less, it’s just that much harder). I’m not seeing where the offense is coming from outside of Montero. Both Banuelos and Betances will have to be very good starters. Who will have replaced Mo and for how much? $95MM just doesn’t go that far.
This team does not need a DH. This team needs top rotation starting pitching. So Banuelos has a huge head start on being a guy you keep. If you have a choice between trading Baneulos + Betances for a starter vs. Montero for a starter, you trade Montero for the starter and fill DH with money alone. It’s a real simple, easy equation.
*Off TO Small WOrld. late
ID:
I think for now that Wave has it right. It’s not so much squeezing 24 players into $190M, it’s squeezing the 20 who aren’t named Rodriguez, Teixeira, Cano and Sabathia, into $90M-$100M.
I see your argument that everyone should have such troubles, but when you’re carrying 4-5 of those monster contracts, it’s a tight squeeze.
The cap issue with the Yankees is problematic because of AROD’s and Teixiera’s contracts. They use up $50+M by themselves. Add CC’s contract and Cano’s expected contract and they are will be over $100M on four players.
I think fielding a good team while paying 36 more players less than $90M will not be easy. It means no more expensive additions and maybe no more mid-priced additions.
I saw a bank on my drive to work today… now I am a banker. Since I saw a bank and you didn’t, I obviously know more about money than you.
Ridiculous.
I’m really not sure why you all are discussing the Yankees’ payroll or trying to avoid luxury tax payments. Who cares??? they can afford to pay top dollar when the need is significant. that’s an advantage they have (and something of a disadvantage because every FA and their Agent knows as much too). I could care less if they have a $200M payroll or a $400M payroll as long as they win.
With that said, they don’t need to spend as much as they do to be competitive and that is probably why they are being more scrupulous when evaluating FAs and what they’re willing to pay to acquire them.
austinmac – So are you actually suggesting that it is impossible to field a competitive team for $120mil?
This 2014 cap nonsense needs to stop, and soon.
My prediction? They go under for one season to reset the penalty and they are right back over the cap the next year. All this bellyaching is much ado about nothing, the only people that have a problem with it are the people that think the Yankees need an All-Star at every position to “compete”. What a joke.
Is there something I am missing regarding a salary cap??? Last I checked, there was no salary cap in baseball…
What if Cole Hamels hits the market?
Do they pass because of 2014?
2014 = $50 Mill stronger than the R\Sox? NOPE.
Donnybrook – 2014 = $50 Mill stronger than the R\Sox? NOPE.
Who cares? They will simply be better than the RedSox… payroll will have less to do with it and they’ll have one less excuse to use.
If the Yanks have a chance to sign Hamels and don’t because of the payroll……then that’ll represent a real change in how they do business and really their priorities as an organization.
You did say “any team in the league”, and I let you slide with Texas.
Mad Prince:
In the new CBA, there is a tie between revenue sharing and exceeding the luxury threshold that has not existed in previous agreements. It’s not a salary cap per se, but it does, on many levels, create the effect of one.
The RedSox are in considerably worse shape for 2014 than the Yankees are, yet the Yankees are the only team that will have trouble “competing” with this soft cap? What a joke. Some of you are really off your rocker.
Bret The Hitman December 29th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
This team does not need a DH. This team needs top rotation starting pitching. So Banuelos has a huge head start on being a guy you keep. If you have a choice between trading Baneulos + Betances for a starter vs. Montero for a starter, you trade Montero for the starter and fill DH with money alone. It’s a real simple, easy equation.
___________
First of all, you are assuming Montero is “just a DH.” Secondly, you are underrating the impact of his bat, which likely could be a once in a decade bat that hits both for average and obscene power to all fields. You get that bat in the lineup anyway you can. Third, if you are dealing for a pitcher who warrants trading an A pitching prospect for, then trading a pitcher for a pitcher makes much more sense than trading a special bat, and a bat that will be in your lineup every day vs. a pitcher who can only help you every five days. You continue to egregiously underrate what Montero brings to our old, slow bat speed lineup.
donnybrook – When you learn to stop looking for one single exception to a statement, like that disproves anything… we may be friends. Until then…
I just do NOT see Philly letting Hamels go. They will re-upp the guy. Lincecum is a legitimate possibility wothy of consideration.
The Astros kicked off a new era when they hired Jeff Luhnow to be their new GM earlier this month, and now they’re looking to fill out the rest of their front office. Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports report that the Astros have interviewed ESPN’s Keith Law for a number of front office roles, including the position of scouting director. They have not yet made him an offer, however.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
Lol…..is the team chef position available?
First of all, you are assuming Montero is “just a DH.”
As you are assuming he will Catch some day
Secondly, you are underrating the impact of his bat, which likely could be a once in a decade bat that hits both for average and obscene power to all fields.
no more than you are currently “overrating” it. This ride goes both ways.
Third, if you are dealing for a pitcher who warrants trading an A pitching prospect for, then trading a pitcher for a pitcher makes much more sense than trading a special bat, and a bat that will be in your lineup every day vs. a pitcher who can only help you every five days.
Statistical fallacy.
I gave you 2, but whose counting?
No way we pass on Hamels.
Donnybrook – I gave you 2, but whose counting?
Exactly the type of response I am talking about, clown.
What if Cole Hamels hits the market?
Do they pass because of 2014?
===============================
Probably not. However, if they do end up signing him, you are probably waving goodbye to Granderson (who I think they let go to free agency anyway) and resigning yourself very inexpensive and not necessarily blessed with great talent types in your regular lineup.
You keep it up, I’ll let The Beret loose on ya. Your being Far too sensitive.
ID, lol, as you are underrating his bat; yes it goes both ways. I seen this movie already, his name is Cano, and everybody wanted him traded. As for statistical fallacies, whose subjective statistical fallacy are we referring to this time?
yankeefeminista December 29th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
No way we pass on Hamels.
*******
Depends on how much the Yankees value him and how much Hamels asks for. Yanks rarely go all in no limit anymore as they did w/ Sabathia.
if they can get Garza for 2nd line minor league SP fine but would still go after Kuroda?
Betances may be a little wild at times now, but it’s hard to know what it means down the road. Especially considering his size.
Randy Johnson had a tendency to be wild early in his career. From 90-92 he led the AL in walks, and 92-93 he led the league in hit batters. But I’m sure everyone remembers him being one of the premier pitchers in the league (both leagues actually) for several seasons running in his pre-Yanks career. During that run he could be ‘effectively wild’ too.
Could Betances become the next Unit? Not saying that. Sure, I’d love to see him become anything resembling The Big Unit as long as he did it in pinstripes. Just saying it’s hard to predict what a little erraticness will mean for a guy like that.
Hopefully they give him enough time to show what direction he may be going in and (hopefully again) he can keep improving every year. I think they should see if he can become reliable in terms of innings & quality starts of course he’s worth keeping. That’s more than what we’ve see from half of the starters for a while. If Betances is not expected to be the next ace or the next ‘Unit’ right out of the blocks, he could begin to surprise us in a few years.
Maybe it’s not fair but from what I’ve read of them both, I admit that I expect more from Banuelos than Betances, and sooner. Not CC/Felix Hernandez stuff, but it sounds like he really could be one of our best 2-3 starting pitchers in just 3-4 more years and he’s mechanically sound in ways that don’t usually leads to injuries. The expectations & hype for Banuelos sounds less like expectations & hype than it does a legit analysis of what he is, and it’s a good bet that he’ll become a good pitcher. With Betances it feels more like the kid really does has a lot of upside, but there’s a lot of speculation that goes along with that.
“What if Cole Hamels hits the market?
Do they pass because of 2014?”
If you listen to some here Betances can be a cheaper better version of Cole Hamels with his 3 plus pitches and 100 MPH fastball
donny – I’m interested to see why you think the Rangers will be increasing their Payroll by $40mil so they can be part of your “list” proving me wrong…
yankeefeminista – I seen this movie already, his name is Cano
The list of “can’t miss” prospects that fail is considerably larger than the list of ones that succeed. it’s great that you are so positively enthralled with Montero, but you need to temper some expectations or you are only setting yourself up for disappointment. Unless he shows up as Frank Thomas (read: not bloody likely), him strictly being a DH will be a waste of talent and resources.
Just popping in – re sure thing pitching. Due to no sure thing in pitching, you need quantity and the Yankees have that in quality. There is no need to rush. See what you have in the spring.
As to Yankee pitching development – the biggest sin is letting Hughes, the top starting pitching prospect in the nation arrive in the Majors with two pitches and a half assed cutter that he had just learned. Heads should have rolled. Basically Hughes is another Burnett, as soon as the velocity drops he’s in trouble.
CC
Garza
Nova
Kuroda
AJ
Montero is not some A ball prospect. He is already showing what he can do in the majors, and it is not unexpected, and certainly not by anyone who has seen him play. Therefore, I don’t think I need to temper my expectations, as much as others need to raise theirs.
As for prematurely relegating Montero to DH status, I don’t share that viewpoint. Nor do I share the viewpoint that if Montero mostly DH’s, he loses all his value, especially not on a team like the Yankees that sorely needs the kind of situational hitting, bat speed and power that Montero offers. You need to evaluate not only Montero’s abilities, which you clearly underrate, but also how Montero’s talents fit into the Yankees lineup, as a whole.
# Bo knows December 29th, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Just popping in – re sure thing pitching. Due to no sure thing in pitching, you need quantity and the Yankees have that in quality. There is no need to rush. See what you have in the spring.
As to Yankee pitching development – the biggest sin is letting Hughes, the top starting pitching prospect in the nation arrive in the Majors with two pitches and a half assed cutter that he had just learned. Heads should have rolled. Basically Hughes is another Burnett, as soon as the velocity drops he’s in trouble.
——————————————–
Do you think he’ll bounce back this season?
is Garza a Yankee yet?
Jacques Strappe the Yankee basher from BDC??
Even the same spelling.
no but Gardner still is
if they can get Garza for 2nd line minor league SP fine
========================
They can’t.
Imagine the Red Sox get Garza….
Beckett – CC
Lester – Nova
Garza – Garcia
Bucholz – AJ
Aceves – Hughes
dogface December 29th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
if they can get Garza for 2nd line minor league SP fine
========================
They can’t.
———————————
OK Theo
Imagine the Red Sox get Garza
======================
They can’t either, IMO.
What could Cashman get in return for AJ?
Maybe a ’54 Studebaker with minimal rust but it still runs?
I’d buy THAT for a dollar.
Or enough of them to cover AJ’s salary.
Article on Dante Bichette and a couple of others.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....um=twitter
Bueller? Bueller?
Did everyone go to lunch at the same time? :p
I’d say the Red Sox don’t have enough prospects to get Garza but didn’t they just get Bailey for a bag of balls and a milkshake or something?
If I were Boston (or a Boston fan) I wouldn’t be too excited about what Beane took for Bailey. Red Flags everywhere for a pitcher that has been hurt the last 2 seasons.
Yeah something just didn’t jive, ID. I’m always weary of BP arms anyway… especially ones that play in that ballpark. Not sure how Bailey will fair in Fenway, tbh.
If I were Boston (or a Boston fan) I wouldn’t be too excited about what Beane took for Bailey. Red Flags everywhere for a pitcher that has been hurt the last 2 seasons
========================
Wouldn’t be turning cartwheels, but ow risk for what will probably be some reward. Certainly made more sense than giving Papelbon 4/$52M.
ow = low
I just don’t get how the Yankees can’t justify overpaying for Kuroda to sure up a SP rotation for next year. The downside risk that you end up short at starter and then you are forced to either bring up a youngster too quickly and or you have to overpay in a trade to try and land someone. Ultimately the Yankees miss out on a ton of revenue by not making the playoffs. So just pony up the money now and save yourself the grief later. We tried the hope thing the year Hughes, Kennedy and Joba were big pieces to the team success. We tried it again last year banking on a rebound AJ year, Colon and Garcia. Got lucky there. The Sox tried it the year they had Smoltz, Colon and others and failed miserably. And then last year got caught short, so even with the money spent, couldn’t get back to the post season. I am not saying it can’t work again, but it’s like a game of chicken assuming guys will remain healthy.
I’m on record two years ago that I was higher on Nova than Hughes on another forum and had a two day firestorm to show for it. The same applies to Noesi – due to a more varied toolbox ie more pitches. Hughes has been dinking around with a changeup for years. All kinds of also ran pitchers have given the Yankees hitters fits and this is one of the top hitting lineups in the Majors.
This is totally on the Yankees development program. I think Hughes can come back but he needs another breaking pitch – Change Up, Forkball, something other than that slow curve he showed last year.
A long question and answer interview with Mariana Bichette
http://mlbreports.com/2011/12/.....interview/
ID,
Nowhere did I say it was impossible for the Yankees to win. What I said was it would be difficult and they would need to change how they have always done business.
If the Yankees needed a closer and got Bailey for cheap you would be saying how smart Cashman was. Now, that the Sox got him for cheap that is a sign he is hurt.
Somehow, reality should come into play, but I expect that is asking far too much.
Hughes did just fine with two fastballs, the cutter and the tighter curve/change. The offspeed will come along. It comes down to him being healthy and aggressive. When he is both, he has been dominant. Sometimes keeping it simple is best and few power pitchers have a full arsenal of pitches. It’s about mixing it up and location with him. You see the days where the swings and misses are there and other times when he can’t just get that final strike. He is still developing as a pitcher. The same as Nova. They are only a year apart in age so I expect both of them to continue to get better into their prime years. We are just used to Hughes since he has been up for a few years now.
Yeah something just didn’t jive, ID. I’m always weary of BP arms anyway… especially ones that play in that ballpark. Not sure how Bailey will fair in Fenway, tbh
=====================================
Bailey has no noticeable split issues. In fact, his ERA was better on the road than it was in the OACC. Fly ball pitcher at Fenway isn’t good, but Papelbon was one too and he made out OK. Both right and left handed bats hit under .200 against him, but lefthanders seem to do it with a little more power.
it’s like the Yankees signed Hideki Okajima and fans say he may come into play here in the 12 season, same fans saying Sox had him he sucked
I would have been much more upset if the Sox landed Soria over Bailey. I like Bailey, but injury history, pitchers ballpark, the fact more teams weren’t in on him for the price and Beane typically will hold a guy rather than part with him for less than he wants. Did Beane potentially fear that Bailey was worth more now before the chance of hurting himself again? I mean since he is under team control wouldn’t teams in need of a closer or reliever give him just as much at the deadline this year?
The season hasn’t started yet & the Yanks have 6 SP ready to be used when it does.
The Yanks have a complete BP with even a couple of extra LOOGYs to see if they work out.
The Yanks have a new replacement DH who has shown tremdous promise as a replacement for a declining Posada.
The Yanks have their entire startling lineup back who led the majors (or near the top) in all offensive categories. Note this was done without much contribution from DH & an injured ARod.
The Yanks so far have lost A Jones & Chavez (who was hurt a bit last yr anyway) and have time to fill these spots perhaps with the same 2.
The way I see it is the Yanks have a wealth of depth. (Nunez, Laird, Romine, DJ Mitchell, Phelps, Betances, Joba, Banuelos, etc)
Things look pretty good to me. Standing pat so to speak is not really that with the Yanks as so many MiLB players are ready to move up, especially pitchers. IMO, the Yanks need 1 OF (A Jones type) & maybe they go a few weeks with Maxwell to see if he can handle things. This slot should not be hard to fill later if necessary. Nunez as an inf/of may even fill it or perhaps even Laird. Actually, I would prefer Nunez to A Jones, but perhaps that is my desire to see fore of Nunez & his bat/speed on bases.
It is not like we need to fill the roles for Dice-K, Lackey, Papelbohn, Drew, Reddick, Lowrie, & V-Tek. (Note V-Tek, Lowrie & Lackey did pretty good against the Yanks.) The RSox also are depending on a lot of guys who have been hurt a lot lately to stay healthy too. (Bucky, Beckett, Lester, Youk, Bailey, etc) Lastly, guys like Ortiz & Scutaroo are being depended upon even more & Ortiz was almost shipped out a couple of yrs ago. He might get caught a few shakes shy of a full DH! LOL!
Yankees will need to rest Martin more often this year, or maybe not use him so much in the beginning of the year as they did last year
have to believe AROD will DH a lot more …Montero will get AB’s but it will remain to see how many,,,really don’t see how a # can be put on it
Is there any reason to think Girardi will let Montero catch more than 10% of the time?
It seemed obvious to me that Girardi wants Romine catching and Montero to occasionally DH.
I wonder if Cashman will mandate anything or let Joe make the decisions.
Earlier, I linked an article on Bichette, but, there were others included and this comment by Mark Newman on Montero. The article is not written by a Yankee beat writer
“Montero’s future in the Majors is still to be decided, with some seeing him as more of a designated hitter rather than splitting time with Russell Martin behind the plate. Newman is still optimistic, though, after Montero posted a .997 fielding percentage and made just two errors at Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre in 2011. He threw out about 25 percent of would-be base-stealers while batting .288 with 18 homers and 67 RBIs.
“Montero showed substantial growth defensively,” said Newman. “Enhanced defense due in part to his improved quickness and flexibility.”
GreenBeret7 December 29th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Earlier, I linked an article on Bichette, but, there were others included and this comment by Mark Newman on Montero. The article is not written by a Yankee beat writer
“Montero’s future in the Majors is still to be decided, with some seeing him as more of a designated hitter rather than splitting time with Russell Martin behind the plate. Newman is still optimistic, though, after Montero posted a .997 fielding percentage and made just two errors at Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre in 2011. He threw out about 25 percent of would-be base-stealers while batting .288 with 18 homers and 67 RBIs.
“Montero showed substantial growth defensively,” said Newman. “Enhanced defense due in part to his improved quickness and flexibility.”
——————————————–
but also seen scouting reports around that he hasn’t improved at all…..can you imagine him catching AJ who’s all over the place with his breaking balls
will get a better handle on Montero and his catching in SP where you have to believe he’ll catch a lot…..still don’t understand why no winter ball for him
thats ST
Is there any reason to think Girardi will let Montero catch more than 10% of the time?
======================
Not sure there’s a reason to think one way or another on this topic yet. Wouldn’t seem to serve his development as a catcher to have him catch only 20 games, but I’d imagine that’s of greater concern to Cashman than it is Girardi. It’ll be interesting to see.
I think the Yankee fans mindset has to change. This is five years of building a scouting system coming to fruition. Maybe a case of wedding day nerves. Instead of celebrating the successful prep work it’s the jitters. The Yankees have extensive depth and they showed it last year. A Rod, Jeter, Hughes, Joba etc went down and they just plugged in the sub and kept on trucking. This is invaluable to get to the show.
Other teams are struggling to find five starting pitchers or a couple of BP arms, the Yankees have to arrange a work schedule for an embarasment of riches. Where’s the beef?
Boston takes a step back after their flourish on spine tingling improvements. They are in need of many things, including right field. Either re-sign JD Drew and hope or pray that they get Kalish back sooner rather than later. He just had shoulder surgery and most likely not be ready for to open the season.
GB7,
Thanks for posting the interview with Mariana Bichette, it’s a unique look at a type of person we never get to hear from. Unless you count Anna Benson that is..
GB
Thanks for the M Bichette interview. An amazing family. Bichette has a family and a good life, A Rod is dating Ms Galaxy, the wrestling queen, in Boise. Bloody hilarious. As she said, Dante left millions on the table by not doing steroids. That family reminds me of Truman – Left the Whitehouse and drove to Missouri.
“If you can deal with triumph and disaster and treat these two imposters, both the same”.
Also I have to say, Mariana Bichette is hot. Dante sr. did good
Bo,
Mariana Bichette is quite a character. Smart woman. I’m sure that she might come off as the “Hollywood stage mother”, but, it’s more like doing what many parents fail to do….teach your kids how to deal with growing up. She’s kept them out of trouble and explained all of the things that can get teenagers in trouble. Seems as though the Bichettes have done well in raising their kids.
austinmac – If the Yankees needed a closer and got Bailey for cheap you would be saying how smart Cashman was. Now, that the Sox got him for cheap that is a sign he is hurt. Somehow, reality should come into play, but I expect that is asking far too much.
OK, well… in reality Bailey has been injured for 2 years because apparently a relievers workload is too much for his arm… and I never would have wanted the Yankees to sign him in the first place, damn the cost.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ds-bailey/
dogface – His ERA was lower on the road for some reason… looks like luck to me.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ds-bailey/
I coached some Hockey and got to know quite a few hockey mums. Hockey, also has become a very expensive sport. Respect the hell out of those families that give up a lot of their lives to let their kids live a dream. It’s a whole culture. They’re a lot of fun when things are going well.
Cashman can’t be taken over hot coals for not landing another arm from outside of the organization.
He’s probably tried everything short of trickery to jettison Burnett and Hal Steinbreinner has likely given him a figure of what’s acceptable to be eaten.
Until then, Cashman is handcuffed.
austinmac December 29th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
If the Yanks needed a closer I’d think Cashman would have done good to get Bailey for so little, but I still would have wanted a BU plan better than Melancon. You see I would have wanted Papelbohn just like I wanted the Yanks to sign Mo! Yes I was also in favor of the Soriano signing & I still am.
Bailey has had issues last two seasons, he’s worth a shot though & bottom line they will not miss any of the players they gave up for him
GB7,
You around?
“The season hasn’t started yet & the Yanks have 6 SP ready to be used when it does”
RavVT -
But other than CC are you truly comfortable with who they have? Of the quintet behind our ace, who do you have faith in start in/start out? Are we ready to say Nova is a fixture in the rotation after one full season? Can Garcia keep pushing back Father Time? AJ and Hughes have a ton to prove and Noesi is an unknown.
So just because they have 6 warm bodies doesnt mean that there is a ton of quality amongst them.
In terms of quality, they are still one, reliable, veteran pitcher short in my mind and have been ever since Andy retired.
bottom line they will not miss any of the players they gave up for him
… unless one of them turns out to be a good player. What makes you so certain of the demise of the players they traded away? Just because a player is not named Jesus?
disco stu – LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace? Every team has the same questions and concerns that you do with Nova/Hughes/Garcia/Burnett… all of whom have been successful previously.
Irreverent Discourse December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
bottom line they will not miss any of the players they gave up for him
… unless one of them turns out to be a good player. What makes you so certain of the demise of the players they traded away? Just because a player is not named Jesus?
———————————————————–
your right Boston gave up a boatload for Bailey…..that better for you ?
disco stu December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Bottom line, I am ready to get through April at least with these guys.
I am confident of CC, Nova & Garcia. I believe Hughes will fare well & I am hoping for Burnett. I trust Noesi as a SP really above Garcia. That said if things go south quickly the Yanks have AAA options to see if they can hold the fort down & possible trade chips. I also feel really comfortable with at least one of the B’s contributing or at least able to contribute after AS break. Additionally I would love to see Joba get a shot again at SP.
That is a lot of options. $17M for Kuroda does not make me feel good & I am not sure he would be effective more than the rest of the group already available. Garza worries me as I wasn’t impressed with him last year in Chicago especially the 1st half.
disco stu December 29th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
I guess what I’m saying is the guys in the rotation at the start of the year may not be the same at the end of the year & I trust the Yanks can do something if need be to correct any issue along the way. (Trade, promotion or position change like Joba to rotation.)
joeman – Or you could stop worrying about what they gave up? They got an injury prone closer with home/road splits that indicate he will not be as good as he was in Oakland. He has a 5 K/BB in Oakland… 2 on the road… that means he was pitching completely different at home because of the “safety” of the park. I expect a big jump in his ERA this season.
They gave up an injured prospect and some other random players… not really a big deal.
If the Yankees got Bailey for Chris Dickerson and some rookie ball players, people here would be doing backflips…
Good grief.
What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?
Boston named America’s drunkest city.
http://www1.whdh.com/news/arti.....kest-city/
Hiroki Kuroda’s agent Steve Hilliard told Sponichi that they are getting closer and closer to making a final decision. He also said that, “Kuroda is currently at the stage where he is exploring all his options, both Hiroshima and the MLB. It will be a tough decision to make.”
I wonder if there are no 12M offers out there. Does he take less to play for the Yankees or a lot less to go back to Japan?
Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Good grief.
What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?
——————————————-
reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year
Yankee Trader December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Hiroki Kuroda’s agent Steve Hilliard told Sponichi that they are getting closer and closer to making a final decision. He also said that, “Kuroda is currently at the stage where he is exploring all his options, both Hiroshima and the MLB. It will be a tough decision to make.”
I wonder if there are no 12M offers out there. Does he take less to play for the Yankees or a lot less to go back to Japan?
——————————
YT…my bet he’s going home
Hiroyuki Nakajima has until January 6th to sign with the Yankees. Sounds like Cashman is waiting for this to resolve before pursuing other bench options.
Joeman-
That could be. The Diamondbacks and Rockies have pursued other players and the Red Sox should be maxed out salary/luxury tax wise, plus who wants to play in the “drunkest” city in the world.
Yankees get Kuroda for 7-8M, vesting option for a 2nd year, or does he go back to Japan for maybe half of that?
when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year
They also wasted tons of money and didn’t win much for it.
“disco stu – LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace?”
Other AL contenders have surer-things than we do.
Red Sox #2 far exceeds the Yankees #2. A healthy Buchholz is better than anyone on that list ). If the Sox sign Kuroda/Oswalt, I’d take them over Hughes/Burnett in a heartbeat.
I’d take the Tigers 1-2-3 over the Yankees. Texas doesn’t have anyone as good as CC, but I’d take the remainder of their staff over ours. Darvish being good could widen the gap even more.
Angels and Tampa no question. Go to the NL I’d take the staffs of PHI, SF, WSH, STL, ATL, over ours as well….
Who cares if we have a better rotation than Minnesota or Kansas City… the teams we’re contending with all have equal or better staffs than us on paper…
We have an absolute 0 in Burnett manning one spot. Nova is hard to trust with how much contact he allows, and who actually thinks Garcia will be anything more than serviceable? If Hughes isn’t rehabbing or fighting through a dead arm and diminished velocity, he will forever be inconsistant until he develops some secondary stuff…. not exactly the 1945 Indians in this group….
“I wonder if there are no 12M offers out there. Does he take less to play for the Yankees or a lot less to go back to Japan?”
————
Teams seem willing to pay a little more per year for short-term commitments these days as teams are, rightly so, afraid of long term commitments to pitchers.
I’d be surprised if he couldn’t land $12M on a 1 year deal – considering some teams were willing to give up second tier prospects at the deadline last season plus pick up the remainder of his nearly $12M salary.
But you never know…
I still think the Yanks should sign the guy if he wants to play in NY for one season. They aren’t going to get many lower risk signings because it’s very unusual to get a proven guy on a one year deal.
“A healthy Buchholz is better than anyone on that list”
————–
Buchholz has one healthy season. You could argue that Hughes wasn’t healthy last season either.
I tend to agree with you on Buchholz, but it’s very difficult to suggest that his one good season wasn’t a bit fluky or that he’ll be healthy to begin with (not that you are doing that.)
“Other AL contenders have surer-things than we do.”
————–
you could have said the same thing last year.
As has been discussed, the reason the Yankees lost last year had just as much to do with a lack of timely hitting as it did with pitching.
I’d love the Yanks to improve their rotation, but the “Yanks rotation isn’t as good as anybody else” argument went out the window a bit after they had the best record in the league last year.
Angels and potentially the Rangers sure look good on paper though. Gonna be a fun season.
joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Good grief.
What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?
——————————————-
reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year
———–
It is indeed for nothing.
Many fans here were restless this time last season and all the whining was all for naught after watching the Yanks win the division and the ’27 Yankees-esque Red Sox fell on their faces.
The Boss was an outstanding business man. But he was not a smart baseball man. Made tons of bad moves and wasted tons of money.
Abomb82 December 29th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Do you mean the 1954 Indians?
BD-
Haven’t seen you post for a while. Hope all is well and you are enjoying a happy holiday season.
I agree that Kuroda, at this point would make an excellent addition to the starting staff on a one year salary. Many on the blog have seen him pitch. Fastball around 92. Good location and a nasty splitter.
However the Yankees don’t seem willing to meet his asking price of 12M-the same as he made last year.
“I’d love the Yanks to improve their rotation, but the “Yanks rotation isn’t as good as anybody else” argument went out the window a bit after they had the best record in the league last year. ”
I’d agree that if the Yank pitching repeats its performance from 2011 the Yanks will be in good shape (at least during the regular season), but I also believe that especially where the Yankee rotation is concerned, past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GF-
Actually the one move that George wanted Cashman to make was to sign David Ortiz in 2003. Cashman had to remind him that the team already had Giambi.
Wonder if the RS would still be searching for that elusive WS title had Ortiz been signed by the Yankees back then as a DH and Nick Johnson released.
The Yankees, IMO would have won in 2004 and beaten the Cardinals.
Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Good grief.
What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?
——————————————-
reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year
———–
It is indeed for nothing.
Many fans here were restless this time last season and all the whining was all for naught after watching the Yanks win the division and the ’27 Yankees-esque Red Sox fell on their faces.
The Boss was an outstanding business man. But he was not a smart baseball man. Made tons of bad moves and wasted tons of money.
—————————————
had some good baseball people around him but didn’t use them well
YT – hope you’re having a great holiday season as well.
I’m sure this topic (Kuroda) has been beaten to death… but as most of us love to hug our prospects, the price for a comparable starter if the Yanks need one at the ASB is probably going to make many of us sick.
More teams are going to be competitive and I feel like you’re a little better off taking some risk (like a 1yr deal for Kuroda) in the offseason rather than expecting to get any deals at the trade deadline.
Buchholz as a full-time starter in 347 innings (09-11) has a 3.34 ERA, .241 BAA
He hasn’t been very durable but when he’s made his starts, he’s generally been excellent. He doesn’t have the greatest peripherals, but neither does Nova.
The Boss demonstrated how ineffective he could be as a GM during the 80s and early 90s.
The team actually benefited greatly when he was suspended and was forced to let his baseball people run the show.
How many of Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettite, and Bernie Williams would have been traded away had The Boss not been suspended?
He almost traded Mo for Felix Fermin. He almost traded Pettitte a number of times (Philly was the most infamous).
The Yanks were better off the less The Boss got involved in baseball decisions.
I shudder to think what could have been.
WYH,
no doubt – improving the rotation is never a bad thing and I think Kuroda is a great fit on a 1yr deal.
I just don’t think the Yanks necessarily need to do that in order to win the division and/or compete in the playoffs.
“He doesn’t have the greatest peripherals, but neither does Nova.”
Which is why people are afraid of Nova taking a step back, which is another reason why some people might be worried about the rotation.
“I seen this movie already, his name is Cano, and everybody wanted him traded.”
Not everyone YF. I know you and I and Fran were steady as rain on Cano’s side, as was Tar. I’m sure there had to be a few others. I think RayVT too.
***************
“Other teams are struggling to find five starting pitchers or a couple of BP arms, the Yankees have to arrange a work schedule for an embarasment of riches. Where’s the beef?”
It’s called the Veruca Salt syndrome. It’s probably tough to understand unless you’re a product of the “me first” generation (I’m not) or have a strong sense of entitlement. Or are fraught with massive insecurities and don’t deal well with letting life unfold. Some people need every i dotted and every t crossed in order to be able to breathe in and out.
*****************
“If the Yankees needed a closer and got Bailey for cheap you would be saying how smart Cashman was. Now, that the Sox got him for cheap that is a sign he is hurt. Somehow, reality should come into play, but I expect that is asking far too much.”
austinmac, you worry too much and also see things that aren’t there. If the Yankees got Bailey cheap I’d know that there was a problem with Bailey because I watched Bailey since he came up and coveted him greatly when he was on top of his game (for my fantasy team that is). He is no longer on the top of his game. So getting him cheap indicates that the A’s no longer see him as desirable goods. Talk about reality coming into play!!!
” I just don’t think the Yanks necessarily need to do that in order to win the division and/or compete in the playoffs.”
It seems like the Yanks agree with you so I hope you are right.
“Buchholz as a full-time starter in 347 innings (09-11) has a 3.34 ERA, .241 BAA”
———–
yes, except that half of those innings came in his breakout year of 2010…. the only year of his career that he’s pitched 100 innings.
I do think he is talented and could be a very good pitcher but he’s hardly a sure thing. A Boston fan would make the same argument with Phil Hughes and it’s hard to argue.
2012 will be big seasons for both guys – are they going to be important pieces of their respective rotations or is it time to plan without them?
“So getting him cheap indicates that the A’s no longer see him as desirable goods.”
That’s certainly possible but I think it’s more likely due to a combination of Bailey’s becoming arb eligible and the fact that the A’s will finish last with him or without him.
Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
” I just don’t think the Yanks necessarily need to do that in order to win the division and/or compete in the playoffs.”
It seems like the Yanks agree with you so I hope you are right.
——————————-
mark it down…95-97 W’s…playoffs & then anything can happen
WYH,
I’m not saying I don’t think it makes sense to improve the rotation – just that they showed the team was good enough to get it done with what they have.
I’d expect the Yanks to be drooling over the thought of a 1 year commitment for a pitcher who is good enough to win 14-17 games next season and has no real health concerns.
“Bottom line, I am ready to get through April at least with these guys.
I am confident of CC, Nova & Garcia. I believe Hughes will fare well & I am hoping for Burnett. I trust Noesi as a SP really above Garcia. That said if things go south quickly the Yanks have AAA options to see if they can hold the fort down & possible trade chips. I also feel really comfortable with at least one of the B’s contributing or at least able to contribute after AS break. Additionally I would love to see Joba get a shot again at SP.
That is a lot of options. $17M for Kuroda does not make me feel good & I am not sure he would be effective more than the rest of the group already available.”
Brilliant and grounded. Good for you Ray.
**********
“Good grief.
What is it with some Yankee fans that continue to lose sleep over what the Red Sox are doing?”
2004 syndrome? It’s like a chip has been planted in their brains and nothing computes when it comes to anything having to do with that team. They see red (so to speak) and all reason goes to hell.
“reason……not much going on in Yankee land & not for nothing when the Boss was around this was a exciting time of the year”
Actually the “excitement” came after 2001, when the Yankees stopped winning.
Slow but steady wins the race. If you need immediate gratification in order to feel good about the Yankees, you might be watching the wrong team and the wrong sport.
Fascinating conversations over the past hours, days, weeks and months. Never have so many said the same things over and over to the point of nausea in neverending comments on nearly every thread.
Obviously there are two camps the IWTTSTWTA (I want things to stay the way they are) and the YABTCAIWTSM (Yanks are being too compliancent and I want to see moves). Just think how much easier the back and forth would be:
IWTTSTWTA
No YABTCAIWTSM
No IWTTSTWTA
and so on, through the wonders of cut and paste there could so much wear and tear saved on keyboards.
Colts…Jags this week money Jags +$195 & this means ?
“Many on the blog have seen him pitch.”
Who are the “many” and how often have the “many” seen him pitch?
I’ve watched him on television and I probably followed his career as closely as the “many” if not more closely through playing fantasy baseball for the last three seasons. And I am very thorough in my research.
Ya think the Yankees should pay $12 mil for Kuroda to sit in the bullpen? Ya think Kuroda wants to sit in the bullpen? Ya think he’s going to get put into the rotation over any of the 5 already here? Think again.
The Yankees do not need Kuroda to win. If he cost nothing and was willing to spot start, oh what fun he MIGHT turn out to be.
There are no guarantees with someone coming from the NL to the AL. Especially at the age of 37. He played in the WORST DIVISION IN THE MAJORS last season and had a losing record.
I think Kuroda’s value remains in the NL.
disco stu –
LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace? Every team has the same questions and concerns that you do with Nova/Hughes/Garcia/Burnett… all of whom have been successful previously.
============
How about the S.F. Giants ? ? ?
Lincecum
Cain
Bumgarner
Vogelsong
Zito
was the Soriano signing last year a bad baseball move and a waste of money?
Just having fun on my last post. it’s an argument no one can win until the season is over, but it will go on day after day.
Gary, very charitable of you. And since charity begins at home, I take it you have nothing further to say on the situation. I will be tracking that!
Perhaps your silence will encourage others to do the same thing!
Let’s see what happens.
CalYank December 29th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
disco stu –
LAA and Philly being the 2 exceptions… how many teams are “certain” of their starting staff outside of their Ace? Every team has the same questions and concerns that you do with Nova/Hughes/Garcia/Burnett… all of whom have been successful previously.
============
How about the S.F. Giants ? ? ?
Lincecum
Cain
Bumgarner
Vogelsong
Zito
——————————
and didn’t they trade a SP this offseason
Wave Your Hat December 29th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Who knows! It doesn’t really matter as IMO Bailey is not as good as Papelbohn so it is a net loss for them.
COOKIE DOUGH TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boy, it’s like a broken record in here. Other than Tampa and maybe California if a starter goes down the drop in replacement performance is significant. The Yankees not so. Nova came up mid season and was number two by the end of it.
“I don’t trust Nova after just one year”
He kept improving all season.
The Yankees went for a sure thing in Vazquez and a couple of years later Viz could be a top end starter and Vazquez is long gone. How is the A Rod sure thing looking and so on. You can’t trade three for one top end talent and be successful.
Even the Bible says the worst sin is to bury talents.
There you go – The Bible wants Noesi starting.
“Just having fun on my last post. it’s an argument no one can win until the season is over, but it will go on day after day.”
Drat! I thought you were serious.
As you were.
joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Yes they did, Jonathan Sanchez to the Royals for the Melkman.
YABTCAIWTSM
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Gary, very charitable of you. And since charity begins at home, I take it you have nothing further to say on the situation. I will be tracking that!
Perhaps your silence will encourage others to do the same thing!
Let’s see what happens.
____________________________________________________________________________
Hi Trisha, I’ve been frimly in the camp of we need to make some moves so no issue there. My point we’ve all said the same things over and over, what’s the point any more? It’s a conversation with no ending right now.
“COOKIE DOUGH TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Yeah, and your momma wants you to spread it all over her as the two of you enjoy the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPNpJX8b-bc
See ya now!
Gardner…Melkman……Milkman…Gardner
OK thunder thighs, munch on now.
“Hi Trisha, I’ve been frimly in the camp of we need to make some moves so no issue there. My point we’ve all said the same things over and over, what’s the point any more? It’s a conversation with no ending right now.”
Gary, you’re right of course. I guess both sides somehow hope to be able to influence the other side with the same old arguments! We both know how that’s going to end up!!!
“OK thunder thighs, munch on now.”
Your momma said okay, she will.
Ray, truth be told, the only acquisition I wish the Sux had NOT gotten is Melancon. I like the guy. Other than that they’re as pathetic as always.
joeman December 29th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Gardner…Melkman……Milkman…Gardner
===============
i don’t get it?
confusion reigns in the land of the manic-depressive…
mick – it’s all good. Nothing we haven’t seen before, nothing we won’t continue to see, unfortunately. It is what it is.
“was the Soriano signing last year a bad baseball move and a waste of money?”
—————-
it was a bad contract because of the 2 player options. I actually expected Soriano to pitch well and still thought it was a bad deal.
You dont give player options like that, or opt outs, unless it’s an elite player and that’s the only way you can get them to sign with your team.
that said, I expect a nice rebound year from Soriano… and for the yanks to have the best bullpen in the game in 2012.
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
I like him too, but I don’t think Melancon is a big enhancement. I also don’t believe the RSox are done yet, but it doesn’t matter as they are the 27 Yankees until August & then they are the 61 Mets from then onward! Wonder if Bailey likes Chicken & Beer? LOL!
“it was a bad contract because of the 2 player options. I actually expected Soriano to pitch well and still thought it was a bad deal.”
Fair, BD. I thought it was a good contract AND expected Soriano to pitch well.
I continue to expect him to pitch well.
BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
“was the Soriano signing last year a bad baseball move and a waste of money?”
—————-
it was a bad contract because of the 2 player options. I actually expected Soriano to pitch well and still thought it was a bad deal.
You dont give player options like that, or opt outs, unless it’s an elite player and that’s the only way you can get them to sign with your team.
——————————————–
so the Yankees can still make bad baseball decisions even without the Boss around….my point
“that said, I expect a nice rebound year from Soriano… and for the yanks to have the best bullpen in the game in 2012.”
HEAR HEAR!!!
And man alive, let’s give a few minutes to think about what a great bullpen means to a team!
I’m psyched.
Yankees didn’t & don’t need Soriano….
“I also don’t believe the RSox are done yet”
Don’t be surprised if they are Ray. They spent a bundle last season to end up in third place. My understanding is that are being very circumspect with their $$$$ this off season.
But I’m with you. No matter what they do or do not do in the upcoming months, they’re rubber chickens.
joeman,
sure.
The Yankees, especially prior to this season, had the luxury of taking risks that other teams couldn’t take.
When you’re allowed to take bigger risks, you have to expect that you’ll also “miss” more often than teams that can’t take the same risks.
The Red Sox are in the same boat – and have made just as many if not more mistakes. And then there’s the Mets
They Yanks and the sox both think they are well equipped going into next season.
They feel they have spent enough money and built their teams well enough to compete.
joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Maybe they didn’t need Soriano or maybe they do. It is only money. It is funny that the folks that are suggesting that the Yanks sign a FA because it is only money are the same ones lambasting the Yanks for signing Soriano. Would you prefer he were in Beantown? TB? Texas?
Soriano makes the Yanks BP even deeper and he also serves as a BU to Mo. I liked the signing last year & this year too. (And next yr as well!) Layered Depth.
Does anyone here really believe if the Yanks head into March & the SP is bad that Cash won’t pull the trigger on a deal or at least try some AAA SPs? Geesh! Patience!
Soriano will be fine, he wasn’t terrible when he was healthy.
Chewing cud, but no milk as a result.
If this is Mo’s final season, those undervaluing Soriano could change their tune if we see a Soriano-Robertson or vice versa setup-closer duo.
“Soriano makes the Yanks BP even deeper and he also serves as a BU to Mo.”
————
I think Robertson is the BU to Mo.
What will be interesting is whether or not Soriano or Joba is the traditional 7th inning guy.
I mean, there’s nothing traditional with having 4 guys who could possibly be closers on most teams, but I wonder if Soriano would respond well to being #4 on the list if it shakes out that way.
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:12 pm
It is great to see you online! (With or w/o the cookies! LOL!) I am not worried about RSox as they are an implosion waiting to happen. TB on the other hand concerns me because of their SP. Toronto also some because they always give the Yanks trouble it seems and they aren’t bad & their pitching is young.
“Yankees didn’t & don’t need Soriano….”
I believe they did, and I believe he will still be an important part of our pen. Imagine getting back to the kind of pen we had been Mendoza was our middle relief! As a hypothetical, picture Joba in the role of Mendoza. (I really want to see him back in the starting rotation so this would at least stretch him out.) Think of getting the ball from Joba to Sori/Okijema to DRob to Mo! I feel flush just thinking about it!
Soriano has mastered the AL East. He ended last season on a high note for the Yanks. No reason to believe he won’t be a valuable piece of the puzzle.
RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Maybe they didn’t need Soriano or maybe they do. It is only money. It is funny that the folks that are suggesting that the Yanks sign a FA because it is only money are the same ones lambasting the Yanks for signing Soriano. Would you prefer he were in Beantown? TB? Texas?
Soriano makes the Yanks BP even deeper and he also serves as a BU to Mo. I liked the signing last year & this year too. (And next yr as well!) Layered Depth.
Does anyone here really believe if the Yanks head into March & the SP is bad that Cash won’t pull the trigger on a deal or at least try some AAA SPs? Geesh! Patience!
———————————————————
just wondering if the Sori signing tied up money for then to use as a SP either last or this year, because they seem to be on a budget (lol) to stay below 200 mil
Soriano may be their 4th best arm in the bullpen next season… At the bargain cost of $11M.
BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Soriano is fairly unflappable. He has his routines and he sticks too them. He will pitch whenever they ask him too in the regular season as he enjoys spending his checks! (Or is it direct deposit? LOL!)
BTW, I expect Joba to come back as a SP still. Too much upside to waste.
why is it laughable that the Yankees have a budget?
“I am not worried about RSox as they are an implosion waiting to happen. TB on the other hand concerns me because of their SP. Toronto also some because they always give the Yanks trouble it seems and they aren’t bad & their pitching is young.”
Ray, I think you are calling it exactly right, and in the correct order of things.
I’m firmly in favor of making moves – smart moves – not dumb moves.
That’s the difference between the likes of some of you and those who realize the game has evolved and the Yanks need to make changes accordingly.
The Soriano deal last season was the perfect example of a predictably dumb move. And this is not 20/20 hindsight. Many of us were against it. It was a very bad allocation of resources for a roster spot that wasn’t necessary.
They also lost their 1st round pick in a very talented amateur 2011 draft pool.
It would have been a bad move even if he had pitched well. The fact that he didn’t and missed half the season to boot makes it that much worse.
Little did we know that the Soriano signing was going to greatly impact how the team was going to spend money this offseason.
Just a disastrous move any way you look at it.
joeman December 29th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
I think the budget thingy is next year & 2014. I believe the Yanks have options still if they had the right SP no matter what the dollars are! LOL! Like Felix! Linecum! etc.
“BTW, I expect Joba to come back as a SP still. Too much upside to waste.”
If only…
“why is it laughable that the Yankees have a budget?”
It isn’t, nor should it be. If the players do their jobs, the Yankees should have no trouble winning the division. The Yankees don’t have any responsibility to go out and spend scads of money because they can, just to put smiles on the faces of jittery Yankee fans. If they feel they can win with the team they have, it’s the team they should put forward. It isn’t exactly chopped liver as presently constituted!
“BTW, I expect Joba to come back as a SP still. Too much upside to waste.”
———–
I don’t expect that, but I think if he’s ever going to start for the Yanks again, now is the time to do it.
The bullpen was elite even without him last season. They can afford to not have him in the bullpen.
Coming off surgery, it won’t be as big of an issue to have him work up to starting (I think?) as he hasn’t thrown in a while.
I’d like to see it because if Joba could start it fills a much bigger need (possibly) but I’d be very surprised if they do that.
Heck, they could get away with Joba only throwing 5-6 innings in his starts with that bullpen.
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
It doesn’t mean that I think the Yanks could go 0-9 against the RSox before AS break and be in trouble, but because they have done that and still won the division it seems kind of funny! I wonder what the psyche of the RSox will be this year if they fall behind early & Yanks split against them or worse? After 2011, no lead will be enough until a spot is clinched in Beantown!
My favorite Soriano moment was when he served up the game winning HR to Delmon Young. Guy has ice water in his veins.
GF – some of us were for it and still are. So I don’t look at it as a disastrous move in any way, shape or form. I’m happy we have Soriano. He makes the team and pen that muc better.
while the mets made some terrible decisions (bay, extending perez, castillo) and to some extent, wright’s contact) it has been the injuries to beltran, reyes, and santana that have really killed them.
I would also like to see them give Joba another crack at the rotation. But it seems as if they have no intention of giving him that shot.
Joba will probably end up in the rotation again at some point. But it will be for someone else.
Giuseppe Franco December 29th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
I’m firmly in favor of making moves – smart moves – not dumb moves.
That’s the difference between the likes of some of you and those who realize the game has evolved and the Yanks need to make changes accordingly.
The Soriano deal last season was the perfect example of a predictably dumb move. And this is not 20/20 hindsight. Many of us were against it. It was a very bad allocation of resources for a roster spot that wasn’t necessary.
They also lost their 1st round pick in a very talented amateur 2011 draft pool.
It would have been a bad move even if he had pitched well. The fact that he didn’t and missed half the season to boot makes it that much worse.
Little did we know that the Soriano signing was going to greatly impact how the team was going to spend money this offseason.
Just a disastrous move any way you look at it.
——————————————
sky is falling
joba who?
Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo.
By not waiting they secured him at a price that was a bargain compared to if they had waited until they were despaerate.
Plus, he wouldn’t have been there when they needed him as Boston could have scooped him up.
Nobody knew that Robertson would emerge as he did and there is no guarantee he is the heir apparent to Mo.
Soriano could still be that man.
“Joba will probably end up in the rotation again at some point. But it will be for someone else.”
————-
I have a hard enough time watching Aceves dominate in the Sox pen.
I don’t wanna see Joba pitching as a starter in the All-Star game for someone else.
Give Joba another chance!!!
“My favorite Soriano moment was when he served up the game winning HR to Delmon Young. Guy has ice water in his veins.”
Aww you’re not a big baby or spoiled sport LGY. Did you also love the ones Mo gave up that were game blowers? Guess he didn’t have ice water in his veins either.
It must kill you to be the definition of perfection and have to watch Yankees with shortcomings. Cripes, how did they get lucky enough to have you as a fan? I bet the organization wishes they could clone you and have you as the posterchild for Yankee fandom.
I’d ask you which Yankee you haven’t criticized but I don’t need to since I know that there were no 0.00 ERA or 1.000 AVG last year.
i love people who say they are in favor of ‘a move’ but don’t actually say which moves they’d make.
Cashman throws away money on relievers all the time.
He paid Marte and he’s currently paying feliciano to do nothing.
At least soriano is being paid nicely to pitch games.
“Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo.
By not waiting they secured him at a price that was a bargain compared to if they had waited until they were despaerate.”
———–
I never saw that deal as a bargain… and I expected Soriano to be dominant.
Way too much risk involved, even for the Yanks, with the way the deal was constructed.
“Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo.
By not waiting they secured him at a price that was a bargain compared to if they had waited until they were despaerate.
Plus, he wouldn’t have been there when they needed him as Boston could have scooped him up.
Nobody knew that Robertson would emerge as he did and there is no guarantee he is the heir apparent to Mo.
Soriano could still be that man.”
That. In spades. Every word of it.
Good job mick!
BD (Boston Dave) December 29th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
So true!
Sure thing, rose colored glasses.
@BD it might be the best thing for him to start for someone else. A change of scenery might do him some good.
it is important to remember that mo is over 40 and could lose it anytime and lose it quickly. also any major injury to him could be career ending. Insurance always looks like a waste of money when it isn’t needed.
“Give Joba another chance!!!”
HELL YEAH!
Trisha
Cashman was against the Soriano move. So does that mean when you say you have faith in any decision the Yankees make you’re not talking about Cashman?
Relievers who serve up homers have koolaid in their veins apparently
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:38 pm
“Give Joba another chance!!!”
HELL YEAH!
.
////
HEAVENS, YES!
nobody named joba is going to pitch either out of the bullpen or in the rotation for another 6 months.
“Give Joba another chance!!!”
HELL YEAH!
================
Invite him over for a cookie dough pig out?
Faith abounds, praise allah while the oven is warming.
Can’t wait for Chad to come back because another a-hole with a Sux screename will be history.
Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
The only move I wished the Yanks had/would make this off-season is to get Soler & Cespedes. I admit I wanted Darvish too, but for over $50M signing plus a contract approaching that not so much.
I would have liked Danks or Bumgarner but again not at the cost of key prospects! I like the B’s, Sanchez & Montero too much to dish them off.
“Cashman was against the Soriano move. So does that mean when you say you have faith in any decision the Yankees make you’re not talking about Cashman?”
Since I have rank on you legally and we use the socratic method, I’m the one who’ll ask the questions.
Now I want you to read all the cases you can find dealing with Veruca Salt and we will then discuss your approach to life LGY!
trisha, try my approach: I never know what the trolls are saying, I scroll by so fast it’s a wonderful abstract expressionist waterfall
. I only read them if someone happens to quote them.
Simply put, Soriano was paid closer money. Sure they overpaid since he wasn’t brought here to be the immediate closer but, to the liking of many, we overspent, thinking of the future.
Better early than late.
Or never.
“@BD it might be the best thing for him to start for someone else. A change of scenery might do him some good.”
————-
a commitment to trusting his catcher might do him some good too
I don’t know Joba (only met him briefly) so I won’t say he isn’t motivated enough… but it sure seems like the problem is less with his arm and more with his head.
J Al, I hear ya. I have more fun getting them tossed though when they make the mistake of playing the fool in my direection.
Good times.
ray, how much would you be willing to pay for cespedes and soler and how much would you have bid on darvish? i mean i’d have liked us to get darvish too, but not it looks like the total amount is going to be over $100M and there’s no way i’d have gone there. Sounds like the bidding on the cubans is going to be crazy too.
“Simply put, Soriano was paid closer money.”
————
name one closer in the history of the game who has gotten a one year deal with two additional player option years ($25M for those 2 years)
“Simply put, Soriano was paid closer money. Sure they overpaid since he wasn’t brought here to be the immediate closer but, to the liking of many, we overspent, thinking of the future.
Better early than late.
Or never”
Geeze Louise mick, you’re really knocking them out of the park tonight!
Overspending is good – as long as we’re overspending on a player I want! That is the theme here.
mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
Soriano was gotten as future insurance for Mo
————————————————————–
don’t think that true at all…just me, don’t think the Yankee future closer is on the team right now
Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
i love people who say they are in favor of ‘a move’ but don’t actually say which moves they’d make.
———–
Hard to say when we aren’t listening to those front office negotiations with other teams and player agents.
i agree that while joba has had arm issues that have held him back i think the problems lie in the head. but he can overcome that, he’s still young, maybe this break will turn out to be a good thing.
jcrasnick
Albert Pujols took less $$ up front to help #Angels sign C.J. Wilson, sources say.
jcrasnick
Pujols will make $12M and $16M in first 2 years of $250M deal. Salary increases to more than $30M per year near end of deal
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
Don’t worry about RR Sock as he doesn’t have anything to crow about after having to eat it last year! LOL! The best team since, well better than the 27 Yanks ahh!! I guess they just folded like a cheap tent or might one say like a cheap drunk (or an alcoholic)! LOL!
If you take away their winning edge against the Yanks, they are probably contending for 4th place in AL east last year. LOL! The only team they played well against was the Yanks and it still didn’t help them over take the 2nd place team!
name one closer in the history of the game who has gotten a one year deal with two additional player option years ($25M for those 2 years)
==============================
If Mo went down, people would have clamored for Cash’s head if he didn’t get Soriano.
don’t think that true at all…just me, don’t think the Yankee future closer is on the team right now
======================================
well i think either sori or robo could
Yank1 December 29th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
jcrasnick
Albert Pujols took less $$ up front to help #Angels sign C.J. Wilson, sources say.
jcrasnick
Pujols will make $12M and $16M in first 2 years of $250M deal. Salary increases to more than $30M per year near end of deal
——————————————————-
thats what I call a team player
Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
I think that is a dynamic of most SP or pitchers in general. That said, I can see Joba going to AAA to rehap as a SP & being in the Yankee rotation after AS break.
“# mick December 29th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
name one closer in the history of the game who has gotten a one year deal with two additional player option years ($25M for those 2 years)
==============================
If Mo went down, people would have clamored for Cash’s head if he didn’t get Soriano.”
————–
Except Cash didn’t get Soriano
And I don’t think anybody was clamoring for Soriano if Mo went down last year.
Look – I fully expect Soriano to be better in 2012, but that was an awful deal because of the player options.
“don’t think that true at all…just me, don’t think the Yankee future closer is on the team right now”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
it would be very imprudent to go into a season with a 41 y/o closer and no back up plan… maybe in the long run you go to someone else, but there has to be someone in place now just in case.
BD, I think what you’re not understanding – or you may be understanding it but still not liking it – is that it appears the investment the Yankees made when they acquired Soriano was an investment in the future, and a potentially long future investment. So they didn’t mind “overpaying” to lock up what they saw (IMO) as the potential heir apparent to Mariano. He was the most likely guy at the time, someone who had mastered the AL East and had shown that he had the makeup and talent to close. The guy is certainly not on emotional overload!
He has a career ERA of 2.89 and a career WHIP of 1.03.
He still has a lot to offer IMO.
NEW YORK — The Internal Revenue Service is suing New York Yankees managing general partner Hal Steinbrenner over what it calls an “erroneous” tax refund of more than $670,000.
The suit was filed Tuesday in federal court in Tampa, Fla.
The dispute dates to the 2001 tax year and involves a refund the IRS paid in 2009. The IRS says the refund claim was filed too late and has sued Steinbrenner and his wife, Christina, to recover $670,493.78.
Yankees spokeswoman Alice McGillion says Steinbrenner’s representatives hadn’t received any prior notices regarding the matter from the IRS.
1948. Sad.
Hal getting sued by the irs.
“well i think either sori or robo could”
Definitely with you. In fact I think either Sori or DRob will.
I’m definitely not anxious to see Mo replaced by anyone. That’s a moment on which I continue to do deep denial.
trisha,
I understand it – but it was a poor deal.
If Soriano got hurt or pitched terribly, he opts in and collects. If he pitched fantastic last season, there’s a good chance he simply would have opted out and signed a bigger deal with someone else.
Can you imagine if employers told employees “look, if you suck or can’t work, you can still opt in and actually get a raise for 2 more years. But if you turn out to be an excellent employee and actually provide value, you can leave and make more money somewhere else” ?
They should have held firm and maybe offered 2yrs/ $23M with none of this player option nonsense.
Why should Soriano get player options like that when almost nobody in baseball gets a sweetheart deal like that?
RayVT December 29th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Ys Guy December 29th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
I think that is a dynamic of most SP or pitchers in general. That said, I can see Joba going to AAA to rehap as a SP & being in the Yankee rotation after AS break.
——————————————–
if Hughes has a bad ST or other young SP’s pitch better than him in ST thats where he could end up at the start of the year
A 62 year love affair with cookie dough.
And I don’t think anybody was clamoring for Soriano if Mo went down last year.
Look – I fully expect Soriano to be better in 2012, but that was an awful deal because of the player options.
=============
The options are moot as he won’t get more from any other team.
The 1st thought is pure 2nd guessing.
Soriano is going to be 33 in the final year of his deal.
How many elite closers are 33 or older?
Hal was sued because his accountant apparently filed too late. I’m betting that the IRS works out deals in those cases since the money was apparently owed and this is all about a technicality.
Temptest in a teapot. Sounds like a lot of money but not when you’re a multi billionaire!
The Soriano deal is terrible because it does not even guarantee Mariano insurance. If Mariano retires/quits/whatever Soriano OPTS OUT and charges the Yankees MORE MONEY.
Its an awful unnecessary deal that hurt their draft (apparently the last draft before the CBA killed the yankees chances of getting good talent), hurt them this offseason, hurt them during the season.
There is like practically no upside to the deal. The best case scenario was Soriano doing really well last year and opting out. Predictably it was a disaster.
Cashman and Girardi have already proven they can make a good pen without 10+ million free agent relievers. Super unnecessary
i’m the other way on mo, im not in denial, i’ve already accepted that his days are numbered and im just enjoying each time he comes back out for another curtain call. its good to see in a way that its not going to end like bernie or mickey, i think if he loses it, he’ll retire and i certainly think this is going to be his last year.
Look foward angels!
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 29th, 2011 at 6:56 pm
BD, I think what you’re not understanding – or you may be understanding it but still not liking it – is that it appears the investment the Yankees made when they acquired Soriano was an investment in the future, and a potentially long future investment. So they didn’t mind “overpaying” to lock up what they saw (IMO) as the potential heir apparent to Mariano. He was the most likely guy at the time, someone who had mastered the AL East and had shown that he had the makeup and talent to close. The guy is certainly not on emotional overload!
He has a career ERA of 2.89 and a career WHIP of 1.03.
He still has a lot to offer IMO.————-
——————————–
can’t Sori opt out after this year ……Mo could stick for another year & if a closer job opens up in the majors 13 season he most likely leaves
So they didn’t mind “overpaying” to lock up what they saw (IMO) as the potential heir apparent to Mariano.
–
But they didnt lock him up! They gave him player options! It isnt even their choice if he stays! Also the contract only ran 1 year longer than Mariano’s contract, so its only insurance for 1 year potentially, and only if Soriano choses! Its the worst kind of insurance you can buy!
“The options are moot as he won’t get more from any other team.
The 1st thought is pure 2nd guessing.”
————-
not after last year
and the pure 2nd guessing occurred the moment the deal was signed. Liked the player, didn’t like giving him a sweetheart contract that nobody else in baseball gets. Boras duped the Yanks on this one.
soriano is in-season insurance. if he opts out after the season, you go get someone else. relievers are available in the offseason.
The best team since, well better than the 27 Yanks ahh!! I guess they just folded like a cheap tent or might one say like a cheap drunk (or an alcoholic)! LOL!
=======================================
This would be apropos at this time, maybe Trish could attest to it as she is in proximity.
Boston named America’s drunkest city.
http://www1.whdh.com/news/arti…..kest-city/
The worst kind of insurance: The kind that might not even be there when you need it.
“soriano is in-season insurance. if he opts out after the season, you go get someone else. relievers are available in the offseason.”
Yep. As my dad would always say, “Things are only a problem if you make them a problem.”
“The worst kind of insurance: The kind that might not even be there when you need it.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
if he’s not there, you’re not paying anymore, just like any other term insurance.
“Boston named America’s drunkest city.”
Wouldn’t you be if you had a team like the Sux???? I guess their pitching staff pushed it over the edge in terms of being America’s drunkest city!
“soriano is in-season insurance. if he opts out after the season, you go get someone else. relievers are available in the offseason.”
————–
yeah, but the problem, again… is that he only opts out if he pitches great and someone else is gonna pay him even more. if he gets hurt or stinks, you’re stuck with him.
unprecedented sweetheart deal for a non-elite player
try this again:
Hub dubbed America’s drunkest city
How exactly is Soriano an insurance policy when he has a major history of arm injuries?
if he’s not there, you’re not paying anymore, just like any other term insurance.
–
Then he isn’t much insurance now is he? Signing an elite setup guy to a reasonable contract with options or years the YANKEES control is insurance. Giving Soriano more money than most closers packaged in PLAYER options is managerial misconduct.
If you’re sure the Yankees can get another reliever if Mariano goes down, then why have him in the first place. IT was clear he was going to take up 5%+ of the payroll that could have been spent on something more useful, blocked their amateur team from drafting in the first round, and tied up a roster spot.
mick December 29th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
try this again:
Hub dubbed America’s drunkest city
————————————————
has something to do with the 50,000 colleges in the state
He was pretty elite when he closed for the Rays BD. I think you know that.
Also, playing the odds is what it’s all about, isn’t it? They played the odds that he wasn’t going to stink (why not) and that he would want to stick around with the opportunity to close for the Yankees.
I think it was worth the risk and money. Still do.
meant city
The back half of that Pujols contract is going to be a nightmare…….at least Arods wasthe frontloaded so the salary decreased as he neared 40. The Angels will be paying Albert 30 million bucks go likely be a shell of himself those last couple or years……better hope they win now. With the new soft cap…..paying 30 million to a 40 year old is rough…Alex makes 26 in 2014…..but it drops to 22 the following year.
And more than welcome to look up my opinions on Soriano and the deal from before he signed running up to his signing. Thought Soriano could be good (but not as good as he was for the Rays which got him the deal) but the deal was one of the worst ever, as I did not believe the Yankees would spend unlimited money and thus any unnecessary deal hurts their ability to spend smartly under their self imposed cap.
theres a whole big pile of closers who are willing to come to another team and take less money (reasonable money for a non-closer) so the yankees will have insurance? i’d like to see that list…
Can anybody think of another Yankee in the history of the franchise that has gotten even a one year player option for a salary greater than the AAV of the overall contract? Soriano got TWO.
I can’t.
It’s one thing to give a player option at a lesser amount.
Vesting options, club options with a buyout, mutual option…. fine.
Player option for more $$ = BAD
theres a whole big pile of closers who are willing to come to another team and take less money (reasonable money for a non-closer) so the yankees will have insurance?
–
Big money contracts for relievers never work out.
http://www1.whdh.com/news/arti.....kest-city/
that should do it.
blake, when you add in arod’s $6M bonuses, its not backloaded. in fact, if he averages around 20 per season, they you’d have to call it backloaded because he’d be adding $30M onto the last 4 years of his contact.
BD, well we’ll just have to wait to see the ending! In the meantime, why fret it. It might end up being the best deal the Yankees ever made!!!
I still see it having merit and I like the odds they were willing to play. Oh well, it either will or won’t. Nobody knows at this moment.
im sorry i meant to say when you add in arods bonuses it is backloaded, not frontloaded.
Putting aside all the reasons Soriano is a horrible insurance policy, that’s not even the reason
the YankeesRandy Levine signed him!!blake December 29th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
The back half of that Pujols contract is going to be a nightmare…….at least Arods wasthe frontloaded so the salary decreased as he neared 40. The Angels will be paying Albert 30 million bucks go likely be a shell of himself those last couple or years……better hope they win now. With the new soft cap…..paying 30 million to a 40 year old is rough…Alex makes 26 in 2014…..but it drops to 22 the following year.
————————————————
by then he’ll be a full time DH…better find out if Montero can play OF a little
In the Yanks defense…..they didn’t know at the time how awesome Robertson was going to be in 2011…..if they had I doubt they would have signed Soriano…….its a bad contract …..but its worse having hindsight knowledge
“Big money contracts for relievers never work out”
That’s not too much of a generalization, is it?
BD
They overpaid. They are the Yankees, they can do that. It’s the reason we are hated. Embrace it.
trisha,
that’s the thing – it would have been a bad deal for virtually any player (I mean if Hamels hits FA and the only way the Yanks get him is with a similar deal, maybe)
it’s not necessarily an indictment of Soriano. I actually thought he’d pitch well.
it’s just bad business to make that kind of deal, IMO.
And this was a big-money contract for a reliever who was probably thought to be the future closer – so it was an investment in the future.
“BD
They overpaid. They are the Yankees, they can do that. It’s the reason we are hated. Embrace it.”
mick, whatever you had for dinner, eat it every night. I am definitely loving your style!
mick,
it has less to do with the money and more to do with giving someone an unprecedented sweetheart deal with player options to be a setup man.
It would have actually made more sense, if they thought his success would continue, to give him MORE money for 3 guaranteed years.
BD, as whacked as it appears on the surface, I agree with mick that there was a method to their madness. If it all plays out according to whatever script they were betting on, then it will have been a good investment.
We just have to wait and see. JMO
Hi to all – I miss baseball and when I read this it was almost like seeing a game – http://www.bronxbanterblog.com.....e-stadium/
If you have a few minutes to spare take a look. (Older fans especially will recall many of these tales.)
the total on albert’s contract is $254M. theres not much detail on cott’s but if he’s getting $30M through the middle years, it stands to reason he will be getting $25M or less the last couple of seasons.
And this was a big-money contract for a reliever who was probably thought to be the future closer – so it was an investment in the future.
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Future closer when? In the last year of a deal you might never see because he’ll opt out if he is any good? The deal reads like the Yankees were hoping he’d be lights out then opt out. Not as a future closing deal. If he is going to ‘become the closer’ he would simply opt out and extort even more money from the Yankees. The options only get picked up if he sucks or is injured. No team should be paying big money to any reliever unless its Mariano Rivera. Mariano is literally the exception. Look at the history of big money/long term deals for relievers.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ear-deals/
BD, you certainly weren’t alone in not loving the deal. And I know it has nothing to do with Soriano, it’s the deal itself.
I actually thought it was okay because I really thought the dots were going to connect and the picture was going to end up being a nice one. If it doesn’t go down the way I
““Big money contracts for relievers never work out”
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this guy mariano has worked out ok…
trisha,
I’m not even arguing that Soriano isn’t worth the money. I’m just suggesting (and considering nobody else in baseball has a contract like Soriano’s) that giving someone player options is a bad idea.
If he gets hurt or stink, Yanks lose because he opts in.
If he pitches exceptionally well, he probably opts out.
I’d have preferred they just signed him for 3 guaranteed years so that if he pitches great he has to stick around.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....-pitchers/
Here is another post on why overpaying for relief is dumb. The Yankees crafted very good bullpens out of minor league pickups and prospects. You dont need a free agent reliever.
“They overpaid. They are the Yankees, they can do that. It’s the reason we are hated. Embrace it.”
Except this doesnt apply anymore, which is Reason A1 the contract is terrible. The Yankees will be playing by the rules of the new CBA. And they were never likely to go above 210 anyways, which means they should only overpay for INCREDIBLE NEEDS like CC Sabathia.
If it doesn’t go down the way I thought it would end up going down, I will then believe it was a bit wasteful. But if it plays out the way I envisioned it playing out, I will think it was smart thinking on the part of the organization. No way to call it right now, of course.
There was no investment in some future closer role. The player options completely contradict that idea.
And it’s pretty terrible to have your insurance policy be more of an injury risk than Mariano.
It’s not that difficult to see Levine and the Steinbrenners got desperate after they were spurned by Lee.
There was no deep thought beyond the flawed idea of “shortening the game” to hedge against a weak starting staff.
Ys,
But imagine if those bonuses were added go an actual contract that was backloaded…….luckily the actual salary numbers go down.
this guy mariano has worked out ok…
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Oh yea Ys Guy?? Did Mariano work out? You mean the hall of famer best there ever was once in a lifetime never gonna see another as good as he reliever that is literally the only reliever to consistently dominate FOREVER? He worked out??? Oh I didnt notice the Yankees giving him 2 PLAYER OPTIONS. Mariano has signed reasonable deals his entire career, and is a complete outlier in every facet of his position.
BD ..it’s only money…not even big money for the Yanks…they had Andy’s dough lying around.
“this guy mariano has worked out ok…”
The only reason I didn’t go there is because I though JF was separating out relievers and closers.
trisha,
at least we’re in agreement that Soriano should pitch better this season.
I think he’ll be a little more acclimated and hopefully is training with the intent of building off of his late season success in 2011.
His ERA in April was nearly 8. His ERA in September was 3.29.
Anyone who goes to the Mariano Rivera well when discussing relievers doesnt understand Mariano or the sport.
mick,
agreed – only money.
and it’s only money that is preventing the Yanks from making major moves this offseason.
I hope it’s not only money that keeps them from signing someone like Soler.
I know they can still win and believe they will – but it’s ‘only money’ that is keeping the Yankees from trying to further improve their team and increase their already good odds of making the postseason in 2012.
And it’s not even the money that was the real problem – it was the terms of the contract.
15 drinks a month makes number 1?? Would have thought more like 20-25 would lead. That’s child’s play compared to places like Europe and South America, Australia etc…
The heir apparent to Mariano rates 2 player options. If you don’t get that, there’s not much else to say is there. They played the odds that Soriano was going to get set up to take over for Mo once Mo decided to hang it up. They weren’t going to screw around waiting for Mo to make an announcement and them scramble to find his “replacement”.
They were thinking beyond their noses. And they were also playing the odds that Soriano would want to be the heir apparent to Mo – and thus not opt out.
It will either work out or it won’t.
if mo asked for 2 opt outs he would have gotten them.
speaking of Mo, check this out, amazing!
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ns-cutter/
“But if it plays out the way I envisioned it playing out, I will think it was smart thinking on the part of the organization.”
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trisha,
but didn’t you envision, as I did, that Soriano would be lights out last year?
If he was, there’s a very reasonable (if not likely) chance that he’d have signed with another team this offseason for more guaranteed money.
I guess if you think Soriano would have turned down more money to stay with the Yanks, ok.
The heir apparent to Mariano rates 2 player options. If you don’t get that, there’s not much else to say is there
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If you don’t get why this is silly and doesn’t make sense, there’s not much else to say is there.
Relievers are in general very inconsistent year to year……thats a big reason why they are relievers to begin with.
15 drinks a month makes number 1?? Would have thought more like 20-25 would lead. That’s child’s play compared to places like Europe and South America, Australia etc…
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thats an average…the RS team averaged 60 per month
If Soriano was anywhere close to good, he would have opted out for a Papelbon type deal.
“His ERA in April was nearly 8. His ERA in September was 3.29.”
I’m with you BD. I think we’re going to see a stellar Soriano this season. I think getting acclimated was certainly part of it. Kind of reminds me of Roger Clemens and his ERA in April vs. September of his first year with the Yanks!
As it turned out, whether planned or not, Soriano became very important to the Yankees when Chamberlain went down for the year.
“If Soriano was anywhere close to good, he would have opted out for a Papelbon type deal.”
Not if he’s been told that he could end up as the future closer for the Yankees. Face it, if Soriano opted out, it wasn’t going to be for a one-year shot. He knows Mo is close to hanging it up. I think he would have hung around for the best job in baseball.
Soriano became very important to the Yankees when Chamberlain went down for the year.
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Too bad Joba went down while Soriano himself was injured
HE’S SO IMPORTANT!!
“If you don’t get why this is silly and doesn’t make sense, there’s not much else to say is there.”
Uh, sure, because you say so.
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Good to see you GB!
Like I said, not wanting to give player options isn’t necessarily an indictment of Soriano not being worth the money… its just bad business.
If I suck at my job (or get hurt and can’t work), my employers don’t want me to have the option of sticking around for 2 more years at an increased rate. Yet, if I excel at my job, I’ll just leave for more money.
It shouldn’t be hard to see why that’s maybe not the best business deal.
Not if he’s been told that he could end up as the future closer for the Yankees. Face it, if Soriano opted out, it wasn’t going to be for a one-year shot. He knows Mo is close to hanging it up. I think he would have hung around for the best job in baseball.
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“Soriano, if you just pickup each of your player options, in the last year of your contract you might close for the Yankees (if you’re not terrible or injured by then)!”
Soriano: ….
*opts out, gets 4 year guaranteed with 5th year vesting option from Phillies*
“As it turned out, whether planned or not, Soriano became very important to the Yankees when Chamberlain went down for the year.”
not really because he was hurt most of the year and ineffective for much of the other parts. I do expect him to be better this year though and if you can look past the contract and just accept it…..then they’ll have 4 closer arms in their bullpen by the all star break.
i just can’t get all that tweaked about soriano, year the contract was probably too much but then so is arod’s and jeter’s. i was surprised they signed him but then again i was worried about mo, so i wasnt sorry they got him even as i was surprised by the contract.
trisha,
if Soriano had every intention of staying with the Yankees to take over for Mo, then why did he ask for player options (that nobody else in baseball gets) ?
it just doesn’t add up.
it’s such an unconventional deal that gives the player every advantage and the team none.
BD – they played the odds. They can afford to, and they did. Only a bad strategy if you’re someone who’s totally conservative. As you well know, I like risk!
here is the Mariano video I tried to send:
around 1:45 in is classic
http://vimeo.com/13209809
Only a bad strategy if you’re someone who’s totally conservative. As you well know, I like risk!
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The yankees are now being conservative, so its a bad strategy.
“*opts out, gets 4 year guaranteed with 5th year vesting option from Phillies*”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
so then papelbon and madsen are both available, along with bailey and maybe krod would have gotten into the market if he knew the yankees were likely in the mix.
There was a 5 week overlap when Chamerlain went down. Soriano did just fine when he returned. There were no options and the price was worth it in hindsight. Regardless of the blatherings of a couple of obnoxious idiots.
year the contract was probably too much but then so is arod’s and jeter’s.
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This is not a good argument for adding a player. Atleast A-rod was the best ever and Jeter is a living yankee legend. Soriano was a nobody who could