The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


No Nakajima, no problem

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 05, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

So Hiroyuki Nakajima is not going to be with the Yankees next season. The two sides were never really looking for the same thing, a deal was never reached and everyone moves on. What have the Yankees lost in not signing Nakajima?

Truthfully, not much.

• Because they didn’t agree on a contract, the Yankees will no pay the posting fee. Why make a bid in the first place? Because the Yankees bid wasn’t especially high, and it gave them exclusive rights to a potentially solid bench player. Why not make a bid? The posting system is clearly flawed, but the Yankees used it properly, to give themselves a chance to sign Nakajima, while eliminating every other big league team from the conversation.

• Nakajima was never a necessity for the Yankees, more of an interesting possibility. He seems to have a solid bat for a utility man, and he’s often praised for his leadership, but he was never more than infield depth for the Yankees, and they can get that elsewhere.

• Eric Chavez is still out there. In so many ways, he’s a perfect fit for the Yankees corner infield needs. He’s used to not playing every day, but still has enough experience to feel comfortable in big moments. He has obvious injury concerns, but the Yankees don’t need him to play often, and those injury problems should keep his asking price relatively low. Plus, he’s familiar, and he’s been productive. Not a bad fallback option.

• Eduardo Nunez was probably going to be the Yankees primary utility man anyway. He’s an occasionally dynamic, occasionally erratic young player who showed an interesting combination of power and speed for a reserve middle infielder last year. The Yankees were never especially desperate to sign Nakajima, at least partially because they have Nunez already in place.

• There is still a bit of a middle infield depth issue to contend with, and Nakajima would have helped with that. After Nunez — and Derek Jeter, obviously — the only big league ready shortstop in the Yankees system is Ramiro Pena. That said, the Yankees could get additional help at second and third base if Corban Joseph has a strong Triple-A debut, Brandon Laird bounces back or David Adams gets healthy. The Yankees upper-level infielders aren’t considered overwhelming, can’t-miss prospects, but the organization has a handful of guys who could legitimately play a utility role in the not-so-distant future.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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107 Responses to “No Nakajima, no problem”

  1. jacksquat January 5th, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    can we post aj to japan?….korea?….argentina???

    Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    …massachusetts???

    Scranton.

  2. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Chad,

    As truthful as your remarks are, you just opened yourself for abuse because Bill James didn’t say it was ok to think for yourself. You can only believe in his numbers, or, if he’s not around, follow Tom Tango. Only they have all of the answers.

  3. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Troll on.

  4. pat January 5th, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Erin

    There have been more Gossip Breaks this week than real Yankee news. Do reople REALLY care about Alex’s glasses?

    I demand live video stream from the Hines complex in Tampa and this week from Alex’s batting cage too!

  5. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    I’m not a window shopper. When I enter a store, it is with the intent to buy. Same goes for bidding on something.

  6. Nick in SF January 5th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “I believe Garza… issa good pitcher, but not the dominating Chucker we saw once upon a time.”

    Could you please leave Congressman Darrell Issa out of this? It is neither relevant nor appropriate to bring him into the discussion.

    Thanks in advance.

  7. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    pat- :D

  8. Nick in SF January 5th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    ” Do reople REALLY care about Alex’s glasses?”

    I would say the odds are good that someone, somewhere does care about Alex’s glasses, but at the moment a lot more people care about the glasses Daniel Craig molests in “The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo”:

    http://www.styleforum.net/t/28.....gon-tattoo

  9. jacksquat January 5th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    I don’t care about Alex’s glasses, but I do think they looked stupid. Not a good look for him.

  10. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Nick- :lol:

    I think Chad’s next post should be about Alex’s glasses.

  11. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    <<<<——–Last Thread is better

  12. Nick in SF January 5th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    When they make “The Girl With The Pinstriped Tattoo”, Alex can play the journalist and rock his classes for the whole two hours.

    [Disclaimer: I didn't see whatever link has this picture of Alex in his glasses, but I'm assuming he's going for the Studious Centaur look]

  13. jacksquat January 5th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Erin January 5th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    Nick-

    I think Chad’s next post should be about Alex’s glasses.

    Why not, there’s nothing else going on. He should make a poll! :)

  14. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    I like Blake Griffin’s glasses in the Kia ad.

  15. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    If you are good at math and science you are a sabermetrics nerd and you are ruining baseball

  16. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    patk..amen

  17. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Nick: http://tiny.cc/hj6i8

  18. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Baseball.. jocks and english majors only! Scientists not allowed!

  19. pat January 5th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    I’m so bored……

    Teammates of the Traveling Glasses

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wsmQ.....+Getty.jpg

  20. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Baseball.. jocks and english majors only! Scientists not allowed!
    ======================================
    for the most part that is true…scientists never had time for baseball

  21. Warning Track Power January 5th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    This non-acquisition should open the door for Chavez to re-sign for another year.

  22. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    for the most part that is true…scientists never had time for baseball

    I sincerely hope you are joking

  23. blake January 5th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Sabermetrics have brought a lot of new young fans to the game……even if you put virtually no stock in them at all this has to be a good thing right?

    Its information…along with everything else that’s been in the game forever. Everyone is free to enjoy the game however they wish…..

  24. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    looking back at hs i find it mostly true….they were not good athletes in general

  25. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    pat-Joba really going for the “nerd” look with glasses and an argyle sweater. ;)

  26. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    Sabermetrics have brought a lot of new young fans to the game……even if you put virtually no stock in them at all this has to be a good thing right?
    ==========
    no.

  27. pat January 5th, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    and then….

    https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/1732849294/image.jpg

  28. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    From MLBTR

    •Many talent evaluators consider Matt Garza a middle-of-the-rotation starter, which may contribute to the gap between the Cubs’ asking price and what rival teams have been offering in trade talks, Olney writes.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Just a guess, but, Cashman and Newman seems to be some of these evaluators, and therefore not worth the asking price.

  29. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    looking back at hs i find it mostly true….they were not good athletes in general

    It’s not really the case anymore, if it ever was.

  30. blake January 5th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Mick,

    So you’d rather the game have less fans?

  31. Phranchise January 5th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Garza is a tad bit of a hot head. I think that is part of it too. But I think that works two ways. Either he is really focused and pitches with that nasty attitude of an ace in a big game. Or he melts down under some duress. Other than some bench blowups, I think he is more of the first attitude and while he may be a #3 during the season, he is a guy I would feel very comfortable with having on the mound during a playoff game.

  32. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Pat-

    http://media.northjersey.com/i.....u_tif_.jpg

  33. blake January 5th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Buster’s sources are dumb for the most part…..he’s not worth the asking price now but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good pitcher.

  34. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    blake January 5th, 2012 at 3:47 pm
    Sabermetrics have brought a lot of new young fans to the game……even if you put virtually no stock in them at all this has to be a good thing right?

    Its information…along with everything else that’s been in the game forever. Everyone is free to enjoy the game however they wish…..

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    and a lot of it is total BS when they’re using faulty or incomplete information. Hell, even between them, they can’t agree who has the best thoughts and statistics. Look how bad they’ve screwed up the defensive stats.

  35. blake January 5th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Jon Heyman JonHeymanCBS

    @

    yankees would like eric chavez to return. among other teams interested in chavez are

    nationals, rays & padres

  36. Shame Spencer January 5th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Stat heads only use the numbers!! None of them watch games!!

    Anyone who wants to keep two-five talented prospects in our system is a hugger!!

    People who don’t know what WAR stands for don’t deserve opinions!!

    Question of the day: why must we all characterize each other in one sentence or less? lol

  37. blake January 5th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    “and a lot of it is total BS when they’re using faulty or incomplete information. Hell, even between them, they can’t agree who has the best thoughts and statistics. Look how bad they’ve screwed up the defensive stats.”

    Even if you feel this way……they are still talking about and interested in baseball….im a fan of baseball first so Im fine with whatever makes the game stronger, more popular etc…..

  38. pat January 5th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Erin

    The Teammates of the Traveling Glasses! Can’t wait to see who gets them next! :wink:

  39. mick January 5th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    So you’d rather the game have less fans?
    =========================
    if they are annoying, yes.

  40. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    blake January 5th, 2012 at 3:55 pm
    Buster’s sources are dumb for the most part…..he’s not worth the asking price now but that doesn’t mean he’s not a good pitcher.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    “he’s not a good pitcher” must have been written between the lines in invisible ink.

  41. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    “Question of the day: why must we all characterize each other in one sentence or less? lol”

    Twitter effect

  42. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    “he’s not a good pitcher” must have been written between the lines in invisible ink.”

    There is no evidence to suggest he’s a “middle of the rotation starter” as Buster’s scout suggests……

  43. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    MLBTR reports a few other teams are interested in Chavez so don’t put him on the roster just yet. Theother teams might offer–oh no–a couple million a year. If he signs elsewhere, many will explain how Pena really has a better bat or the Laird we saw last year was not really him.

  44. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    pat January 5th, 2012 at 3:59 pm
    Erin

    The Teammates of the Traveling Glasses! Can?t wait to see who gets them next!

    *********************

    My guess is either Gardner or Montero since they’re both rumored to be going to Camp Alex ;)

  45. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    I don’t see Chavez as a necessity ……use that money on Cespedes and let the great Eduardo Nunez play 3rd when Alex needs a day. Chavez is just as likely to get hurt and miss half the season as he is to be useful IMO…..

  46. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    He didn’t say it was his scout. It was many talent evaluators. If Garza was in such demand as worth the price, why is Chicago still left with trying to deal him? Nobody’s paying that freight. They didn’t pay that much for Latos or Gonzalez and they’re younger and left handed.

  47. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    “He didn’t say it was his scout. It was many talent evaluators. If Garza was in such demand as worth the price, why is Chicago still left with trying to deal him? Nobody’s paying that freight. They didn’t pay that much for Latos or Gonzalez and they’re younger and left handed.”

    Because they are asking to much right now…..I never said they weren’t.

  48. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
    I don’t see Chavez as a necessity ……use that money on Cespedes and let the great Eduardo Nunez play 3rd when Alex needs a day. Chavez is just as likely to get hurt and miss half the season as he is to be useful IMO…..

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Jesus. You sound like a petulent child that somebody isn’t agreeing with them or not getting their way. You’d better hope that the little one doesn’t pick up that habit.

  49. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    You sound like a petulent child that somebody isn’t agreeing with them

    You’re projecting.

  50. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    This is you after literally anything: “Someone wants to trade DJ Mitchell?? WELL GO AHEAD AND TRADE EVERYTHING THEN!!!” You need some warm milk.

  51. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Blake,

    If Chavez is not signed, who is the second backup infielder? Please don’t say Pena. If so, the Yankees are an injury away from him having a significant role as backup to three positions.

    Their is no reason in the world to believe the Yankees are in on Cespedes. Carig has been right on this winter, and he says no way.

    We need to understand money is a big object, and they don’t want to spend it. It seems abundantly clear. I do hate it.

  52. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    You started a comment with “Jesus” then literally insinuated that because Blake doesn’t think the Yankees need Eric Chavez that his kid (?) might pick up some kind of bad habit. Somewhere in vietnam there are a bunch of really angry vietnamese kids running around.

  53. yankee 221 January 5th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    “Jesus. You sound like a petulent child that somebody isn’t agreeing with them or not getting their way. You’d better hope that the little one doesn’t pick up that habit.”

    Says the guy who thinks Burnett is any good, Hughes is a young stud, and Laird is an impact player….

  54. Mgumpher January 5th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Are the glasses just for show or does ARod need to wear glasses for vision correction?

    If they are just for show, as my daughter uses them, then it isn’t a big deal. However, Alex has/had great vision, and a decrease in vision could affect his playing ability.

    There was one time Alex had talked about a Coke cup in the outfield being a bit of a distraction when he was up at bat. I think it had to do with some people sitting near the Batters Eye area.

    Many ball players need corrective lenses, but it does affect depth perception and transition from far to near is not as quick. This could affect his timing.

    As to the way they look? I don’t really get it, but who cares. Glasses always look nerdy to me.

  55. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    blake you are a dentist right? You are ruining baseball.

  56. Yanks78 January 5th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    This is you after literally anything: “Someone wants to trade DJ Mitchell?? WELL GO AHEAD AND TRADE EVERYTHING THEN!!!” You need some warm milk.

    ————

    LMAO

    Substitute Mitchell for Burnett, Brandon Laird, Phelps, Nunez, Romine, Warren, etc. and the sentence still makes sense for him

  57. Yanks78 January 5th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    If Garza was in such demand as worth the price, why is Chicago still left with trying to deal him?

    ———–

    Because that is what smart GMs, with teams going nowhere, do. They realize they are better off with a package of prospects rather than 2 more years of Garza. This ain’t Clayton Kershaw or Tulo… Garza is a very good pitcher but not one you build around especially considering he is only under control for 2 more seasons.

  58. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    miuck – But… i find fans like you annoying, so who’s list of “good fans” will we be keeping?

  59. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    Mgumpher-I’m guessing they’re just for show, but I have no idea.

    Didn’t Grandyman have to get his eyes tested when the Yankees got him from Detroit? I seem to remember something about that.

  60. Nick in SF January 5th, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Thanks for the link, Erin.

    Based on previous research, I think Alex is wearing Tom Ford frames, which are generally not available at retail outlets but can be bid on through a complicated posting process.

  61. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Anyone pretentious enough to think they could know everything there is to know about baseball merely by watching it… well… doesn’t deserve the time of day.

    Anyone so bold as to claim that someone else doesn’t observe or watch the game of baseball because they know how to do math… well… go jump of a bridge.

  62. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    If you took out all the bad fans Yankee stadium would be empty

    Can someone link me to this A-rod glasses picture?

  63. Wave Your Hat January 5th, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Eric Chavez hit 2 HRs in 175 PAs last year, a .320 OBP and a .356 SLG. At least he’s good at not playing every day…

  64. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    “Jesus. You sound like a petulent child that somebody isn’t agreeing with them or not getting their way.”

    So you do think Chavez is a necessity?

  65. Bret The Hitman January 5th, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Now Green Beret attacking Blake’s fatherhood and his toddler.

    Getting personal over baseball.

    :lol:

  66. mick January 5th, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    you guys scared the grumpy old man away…

  67. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Another classy move by GB. Shocker.

  68. Wave Your Hat January 5th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    If Banuelos or Betances are as productive as Matt Garza has been at the same point in their careers as Garza is now, I will be ecstatic.

  69. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Eric Chavez hit 2 HRs in 175 PAs last year, a .320 OBP and a .356 SLG. At least he’s good at not playing every day…

    Yeah he was actually pretty bad for most of the season. I think a lot of fans are remembering how good he was prior to the injury. I’d like Chavez back because he’s obviously still a talented player. I doubt the Yanks will pay him much though, it’s a guarantee that he will miss significant time with an injury.

  70. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Yanks78 January 5th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
    If Garza was in such demand as worth the price, why is Chicago still left with trying to deal him?

    ———–

    Because that is what smart GMs, with teams going nowhere, do. They realize they are better off with a package of prospects rather than 2 more years of Garza. This ain’t Clayton Kershaw or Tulo… Garza is a very good pitcher but not one you build around especially considering he is only under control for 2 more seasons.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    If he’s not Kershaw, why pay for Garza like he is? He’s still in Chicago because nobody wants him that bad…not at that price. In other words, he’s a lower #2 or a #3 that Epstein is trying to pretend that is a #1.

  71. Mgumpher January 5th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    Patrick, http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......a-hipster/

    It’s hard to tell if they are corrective or just decorative glasses from those pix though.

  72. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    If Banuelos or Betances are as productive as Matt Garza has been at the same point in their careers as Garza is now, I will be ecstatic.

    Absolutely.

    Maybe the Yankees should try to learn from Tampa and how they develop pitching prospects. NY tends to rush guys and put them in the pen whereas Tampa is super conservative with their pitching prospects (and all their prospects in general) and waits until they are absolutely ready before bringing them up. A lot of people criticize Tampa for waiting because they assume it’s due to money reasons but you really can’t argue with success. I hope Cash is careful with Banuelos and Betances, the method he used with Hughes and Chamberlain is clearly not working.

  73. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    Mac,

    Yea I know there is nothing to suggest they will spend the cash to sign Cespedes……my point was that o just don’t see Chavezas as a necessity ….I think there is a good chance he gets hurts again and misses a bunch of games and then Pena is the backup anyways…..and I honestly don’t think they’d lose any more games by having g Nunez/Pena on the bench than they would with Nunez/Chavez on the bench……if they sign him then fine….hes a good fit….I just don’t think they have to.

    Patrick,

    I know :(

  74. mick January 5th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    can anyone here say affirmatively that the yanks, as they are currently constituted, are a lock to not win it all this year?

  75. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:29 pm
    “Jesus. You sound like a petulent child that somebody isn’t agreeing with them or not getting their way.”

    So you do think Chavez is a necessity?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Who do you want there? Vazquez? They want experience there and somebody they know accepts that he’s no longer a full timer. Laird needs a little time if he’s the answer if something happens to Chavez/Rodriguez.

  76. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    Mgumpher, thanks for the link.

    A-rod is awesome and those glasses own

  77. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    “If Banuelos or Betances are as productive as Matt Garza has been at the same point in their careers as Garza is now, I will be ecstatic.”

    Yes….and if they both are the Yankees will be very good most likely.

  78. Bret The Hitman January 5th, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    What’s wrong with Keppinger?

  79. Nilsson January 5th, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    The beauty of baseball is that it lends itself to numbers the way other sports can’t. And it also has qualitative aspects that others sports can’t match. I believe there’s room for both.

    One thing I’ll say about “advanced” defensive stats. I don’t think it’s complete information, yet it isn’t totally bogus. The problem I have with the sabremetric crowd is what they don’t include.

    Think of Gallup election polls. What do they show next to the results? The margin of error. In similar manner, defensive stats are basically drawn from a random sampling of a greater population of plays on the field. It would be terrific if there was a confidence interval next to those damn estimations. I suppose that’s why it’s better to sum up previous years’ worth of those estimations.

    Anyway, carry on.

  80. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    Bret The Hitman January 5th, 2012 at 4:30 pm
    Now Green Beret attacking Blake’s fatherhood and his toddler.

    Getting personal over baseball.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    nobody attacked his kid, you idiot. You’d better worry more about running off the next Golden Godess Of The south.

  81. blake January 5th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    “Who do you want there?”

    I don’t think the world would end if Pena or Laird were there….as I said if they sign him fine…..but just as with Jones I don’t see it as a necessity. I would rather them have spent the money they’ll spend on those two and take a risk on Cespedes as the money per year will be similar most likely…..its just an opinion.

  82. Bret The Hitman January 5th, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    ooo. You really hurt my feelings, dirtball.

  83. mick January 5th, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    bret dont let the mean man bother you he has poetic license to insult as he has served …

  84. 108 stitches January 5th, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    No interest in Burnett means no interest in Garza.
    Cashman is not about to give up the talent Epstein wants just to have 2 more arbitration years of Garza. It’s not prospect hugging, just sensible baseball.
    Moving Burnett means immediate change of plans with Kuroda for a 1-year deal.
    Burnett gives innings ? How many [quality] inning is the difference maker.

  85. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    Nilsson January 5th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
    The beauty of baseball is that it lends itself to numbers the way other sports can’t. And it also has qualitative aspects that others sports can’t match. I believe there’s room for both.

    One thing I’ll say about “advanced” defensive stats. I don’t think it’s complete information, yet it isn’t totally bogus. The problem I have with the sabremetric crowd is what they don’t include.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Not likely to see WAR, Range Factor, UZR or xFIP on any HOF plaques anytime soon.

  86. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    GB7 – You completely miss the point of the stats, why do you even bother trying to talk about them?

  87. Bret The Hitman January 5th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    mick,

    I don’t really care. Just like watching him grow more hostile with every last breath he takes.

  88. mick January 5th, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    bret, cool, he’s a legend in his own mind…what’s left of it.

  89. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    It’s embarrassing for you that you can be old, ignorant, and proud of it all at the same time.

    OF COURSE You will see WAR, UZR and xFIP on HOF plaques… because you can see them now. Do you think Babe Ruth only made the HoF because WAR hadn’t been invented yet? All those numbers do is point to production, production that has been recognized in one way or the other as above the cut. The stats are made to compare players, not make bold definitive claims like you “watchers” do based on nothing.

    They are results of great careers, they are not magical made-up numbers… you simple little man.

  90. Wave Your Hat January 5th, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    What about Wilson Betemit? Not flexible enough?

  91. Bret The Hitman January 5th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    I wouldn’t mind Betemit. Don’t like his swing but he’s durable and versatile.

  92. mick January 5th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    i have watched betemit….and he is a loser…how is that measured?

  93. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    People pointing at the stats like they are some evil thing need to get their heads examined.

    No one is telling you that you need to accept UZR in all its fallible glory, or WAR, or any of the formulaic metrics for that matter…

    You simply need to understand that you are supposed to use statistics as a crutch, a tool to help you understand or prove/disprove ideas. They do not replace “watching baseball” by any stretch of the imagination, and I would be willing to wager that the people that go out of their way to understand and research why some stats are good and some stats are bad watch WAY more baseball than you do to begin with.

  94. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    Why are we so mean to each other about baseball? I’m not disqualifying myself either, I’m a jerk too. Can’t we all be friends?

    queue Nick with a snarky comment that despite making fun of me will still be funny <3

  95. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    When you observe something that is in direct conflict with the stats (read: the results of your experiment) then your hypothesis is most likely incorrect.

  96. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    What about Wilson Betemit? Not flexible enough?

    Dude was a junior gymnastics champion are you kidding me?

  97. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    So when (just an example, i’m not trying to harp on this) donny says “Matt Garza is in decline over the last 3 years” and we can point at 20 different ways of measuring that as false… the argument should end there. “Because you saw it” doesn’t hold up when the results don’t prove your observation.

    This is scientific method 101.

  98. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    ID,

    Science is killing baseball, please just stop

  99. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Yanks have 5 of the top 100 prospects according to BA. Montero, Banuelos, Betances, Sanchez and Mason Williams.

    http://mlb.scout.com/a.z?s=243.....&pg=1

  100. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    patrick – science is changing life, people need to get on board. :)

  101. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    New Post: Chavez takes center stage

    :arrow:

  102. mick January 5th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Garza has been a .500 pitcher giving 200 inngs per with a consistent whip over the past 3 years, so you are both wrong.

  103. Wave Your Hat January 5th, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    Wilson Betemit, in his unlamented incarnation as a Yankee, still posted better offensive numbers than Chavez has done as a Yank. Chavez is a better defender, but is that enough?

  104. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    mick – Garza’s record is not an indicator of his performance, so you are wrong for basing any reasoning on it.

  105. mick January 5th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    id- if you mean his w-l record ok , but over the past 4 years his hits allowed, era,ip, whip, k/9, bb/9 are scarily consistent.

  106. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    and consistently good…

  107. Ruby Wednesday January 5th, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    Lot’s of Garza today…………….almost time to switch back to the endless Kuroda debate ? AGAIN.


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