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Yankees fail to reach agreement with Nakajima

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 05, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees just announced that they will not sign Japanese shortstop Hiroyuki Nakajima. No deal has been reached, and there will not be a deal before tomorrow’s deadline.

“We unfortunately could not come to an agreement with Hiroyuki,” Brian Cashman said in a statement. “We wish him the best of luck during the upcoming 2012 season.”

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258 Responses to “Yankees fail to reach agreement with Nakajima”

  1. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    What a waste of time.

  2. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    OK, then. When do they announce Chavez’ new contract?

  3. Mike Ri January 5th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    im over it

  4. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Did they expect he would sign for league minimum??? I was pretty excited about potentially bringing Nakajima in and moving out Nunez. Or even trading Nakajima for something. Instead, nada.

  5. blake January 5th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Donny,

    Show me in the numbers where he took a step back? Best Era of his career…..most Ks in his career….least amount of homers allowed….etc….at the very least it was the same as all the others seasons.

  6. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    jerkface – now, how do you know that? Just because the Yankees aren’t going to sign him to a contract? Remember, this also blocks any other ML team from signing him, kind of like making a waiver claim to block another team from getting the player.

    Maybe Cash had reason to believe the Red Sox wanted Nakajima to play SS over Scutaro. Maybe they wanted him for 3B, allowing them to trade a declining and breaking down Youkilis.

    Just because we don’t understand an action doesn’t mean there wasn’t a reason for it. I think that goes for a lot of things in life, besides baseball.

    Just my personal philosophy.

  7. blake January 5th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    At least they blocked him from Bobby V!

  8. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Remember, this also blocks any other ML team from signing him, kind of like making a waiver claim to block another team from getting the player.

    Except waiver blocks are legal, posting system blocks are not. They offered him a 1 year deal for a third of what he made in japan. Its crappy. They disrespected the Jeter of Japan.

  9. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    The Jeter of Japan? For real?

  10. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    More to the point, Nakajima was atleast something new and potentially exciting. Change for change sake isn’t good but nothings happening this offseason. Its boring and the team hasn’t addressed any of its weak points.

    Montero is the most exciting thing about next season atm. Which is good, but salary dumping AJ would be something else.

  11. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    The Jeter of Japan? For real?

    Offensive short stop captain with overrated defense, but that comment is obviously tongue in cheek :twisted:

  12. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Zambrano heading to the Marlins?

    Ozzie is collecting problems.

  13. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    We couldnt sign a guy that just wanted ‘a couple million on a multi year deal’. That sucks.

  14. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    We couldnt

    Or wouldn’t… there isa big difference.

    Somehow I doubt that the Yankee’s “couldn’t work out a deal”. It is infinitely more likely they had no interest in doing so.

  15. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    the Jeter of Japan.
    Oh, c’mon, now! Where did you dig that out from? And, apparently it is legal. I’ve not read anywhere that the posting team is obligated to sign the player.

    You want crappy? Look north on I-95, where a certain team broke with protocol and signed a young Tunichi Tazawa to a contract while he was in an industrial league, or tampered with a JD Drew to opt out of his Dodgers’ contract.

    Give me a break…….

  16. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    It is infinitely more likely they had no interest in doing so.

    Wouldnt or couldnt the result is the same. And if its wouldnt then lol why even bid.

  17. blake January 5th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “You wanna evaluate a player based on his “numbers”. I evaluate a player based on what I have actually seen him do”

    No I like to use both….what did your eyes not like about Garza last year?

  18. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    This is strictly Hal doing his nickel-and-dime dance.

    – BLAKE -
    You wanna evaluate a player with a slide rule. I wanna use my eyes whenever possible. And the numbers do Not always tell the tale as we learned with Vazquez. To me, Garza last season with the Cubs, was Not the Garza we saw with Tampa, and Certainly Not a 2 Slotter in the AL East in 2012. Again, I wouldn’t even give up Noesi and Nunez.

  19. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Why bid? No one else can sign him now, why not bid?

    If there was a second bid, Selig could release it…

  20. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    I’ve not read anywhere that the posting team is obligated to sign the player.

    If a team does not negotiate in good faith Bud can award the runner up the bid. And obviously bidding just to block is not ‘good faith’. The posting system is designed to bring talent over here, not for teams to block the acquisition of said talent.

  21. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Did you watch Garza pitch at all last year? Outside of a slightly rough June he was pretty damn good.

  22. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Why bid? No one else can sign him now, why not bid?

    If they bid on him purely as a blocking strategy (which isnt allowed) then it means he is good enough to warrant the strategy being employed. Why not sign him?

  23. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    So your biggest complaint is that the team is boring you?

    You want excitement? Go running down Broadway stark naked and yell that you’re going to challenge the Naked Cowboy to a singing duet. I bet you’ll make page 3 of the Post. :)

  24. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    jerkface – Yes that’s what it is designed for… but who’s to say they didn’t negotiate in good faith? You just assume that because they didn’t sign some nobody shortstop who should have been cheap.

  25. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Maybe they don’t care if he’s good enough or not. If Boston wanted him they would have bid more than $2mil.

    Much like the low Darvish fee, this was a “let’s kick the tires and if he falls to us we’ll talk”. No risk, no necessary move.

  26. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    The posting system is ridiculous. It should just be abolished, and let the players come over as FAs, or allow the Japanese teams to sell the contract directly.

  27. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Yes that’s what it is designed for… but who’s to say they didn’t negotiate in good faith?

    Curry says they offered him a 1 year deal for 1/3rd his NPB salary (which isnt alot if I recall). Nakajima is a starter with pretty good numbers, why not give him a few years? I bet the entire contract woulda been under 10 mil but 1 year for crap pay just makes me think they didnt want him at all.

  28. hardwired7 January 5th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    I think that the Yanks are trying to condition their fanbase to the idea that the days of “winning at all costs” are over. That’s not to say that they don’t have a loaded team capable of winning, but rather we can’t just expect them to be in on every desirable FA or trade target.

    If they wait until 2014 to start displaying fiscal responsibility (or even austerity), it might be too late.

    Beginning the process of downgrading expectations in terms of blitzkrieg spending is well underway, and if you look at it pragmatically it makes perfect sense.

  29. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Curry knows this… how? Come on, you know better.

  30. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    this was a “let’s kick the tires and if he falls to us we’ll talk”.

    They kicked the tires in a crappy way. If Curry is right about their offer.

  31. jacksquat January 5th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Why did he fly all the way to NY from Japan then, vacation?

  32. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Or wouldn’t… there isa big difference.

    Somehow I doubt that the Yankee’s “couldn’t work out a deal”. It is infinitely more likely they had no interest in doing so.
    ==========================

    I’d guess it’s somewhere in the middle. I think Nakajima fanices himself a starter where the Yankees would seem to see him as more utility type. Probably a legitimate disagreement between the two parties on the value of what he brings.

    Certainly makes more sense from Nakajima’s side to stay home and make bigger money in Japan then be a free agent next season. Certainly doesn’t make sense for the Yankees to pay him more than they see his value as.

  33. upstate kate January 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Isn’t it obvious? This is all a cunning plot by the Yankees to deprive Jerkface of having any Japanese players to root for. Sorry JF :(

  34. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Curry knows this… how? Come on, you know better.

    I like Curry and Sherman for Yankee inside info. Working for YES I think Curry is more about saying what the Yankees want people to know. In this case he says they offered him 1 year for a reserve role.

    And since no one knows for sure anything I am fine using Curry and Sherman as a point for discussion.

  35. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    JonLaneNYC With Nakajima headed back to Japan, expect #Yankees to turn their attention to Eric Chavez, a valuable reserve when healthy.

  36. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    If a team does not negotiate in good faith Bud can award the runner up the bid

    =================================

    Back when it was announced that the Yankees bid was the winner, there was some suggestion that there was no runner up bid.

  37. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    If the Yanks did the Naka bid as a blocking manuever, then shame on them. That is below them. If you don’t wanna spend the jack, fine. Stand on the sidelines, stay quiet, and enjoy the action of others.

  38. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Apparently, not many thought much of him if nobody bid for his services, or if NYYs won with a $2 mil bid. Hardlt doubt that the reason was just to block him from anybody. All he really was to NYY was infield depth and that’s what they were going to pay for.

  39. Pat M. January 5th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Face….Was he really the best SS in Japan ??? The Yanks wanted him to be a utility middle infielder for them….I’m surprised he even negotiated at all then…..

  40. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Why would a guy move across the world, And take a pay cut to boot? If the Yanks thought the guy would go for that they must be run by Ebeneezer Scrooge.

  41. Tom in N.J. January 5th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    MarcCarig Signing Nakajima seemed unlikely from the start. Yankees were surprised he fell to them after submitting a modest $2m bid.

  42. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    So your biggest complaint is that the team is boring you?

    Kind of? My biggest complaint would be not solving the AJ Burnett situation. Oh and signing Rafael Soriano last year. That still sticks in my craw because of whats going on this year.
    I expect the Yankees to tweak, not go all out, but tweak every year. They are doing nothing and doing nothing can be an ok strategy.

    Nakajima was interesting. Getting new players is interesting. Especially Japanese players (to me). I was excited to see what he could do in the majors. I thought he could be signed for pretty cheap. Apparently not cheap enough for the Yankees.

  43. blake January 5th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Donny,

    You still haven’t said why you feel this way….because the evidence doesn’t support your argument

  44. Ruby Wednesday January 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Who really gives a crap about a nothing SS from overseas who has never played a single inning in MLB. Good riddance. Now the NYYs can move on to Nick Johnson’s cousin Eric Chavez, oh joy.

  45. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Maybe the Yankees just had no yen for nakajima.

  46. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    CC_Sabathia Who wants to man the @MLBFanCave next year http://bit.ly/h1sZ4Y – you get to watch every game and hang with me and a bunch of other players

  47. Phranchise January 5th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Seems to me he had some speed and a bit of pop. If he could slap the ball around a bit I would have prefered to see that off the bench this year as much as I like Chavez. I want to see some bench guys who can create on the basepaths and put up tough at bats. Think of the guys Detriot brought in during that series that hurt us. At least if you were going in that direction, maybe an upgrade to Jones as the 4th outfielder would have been nice. The last thing I want to see on this team is more strikeout guys who swing for the deep ball.

    As for blocking the Sox even if he wasnt’ a major talent. It’s not the worst idea. They had to move Lowrie for Melancon. So that means they are short on a backup infielder unless they bring up the glove with no bat SS they have. If Nakajima could have started at SS, the Sox would have been able to move Scutaro as well for a potential bullpen arm and save a bit of cash. So they are stuck there now too.

  48. Phranchise January 5th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    And if the Yankees don’t want these guys what is the real intention on bidding. Darvish yes because if by some miracle they got him for 15 mill, they would have signed him and felt comfortable with overall money spent. But this guy? Seems silly. Sox, if they actually wanted him would have put in 2 mill at least no?

  49. Pat M. January 5th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    I don’t understand how signing a utility SS has any effect on signing Eric Chavez who is a backup 1st / 3rd baseman / lefthanded DH ??? If the Yanks were to ink him Nuenz is a goner….

  50. hardwired7 January 5th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    “We’ll give you $1M and these signed Derek Jeter baseballs.”

  51. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    hardwired7 January 5th, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    ?We?ll give you $1M and these signed Derek Jeter baseballs.?

    **********************

    :lol:

  52. upstate kate January 5th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    would he have to do anything to get those DJ balls?

  53. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    would he have to do anything to get those DJ balls?

    Don’t worry Kate, there’s a cream for it.

  54. Tom in N.J. January 5th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    “Don’t worry Kate, there’s a cream for it.”

    Yeah, but you may fail a steroid test…

  55. hardwired7 January 5th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Don’t ask, don’t tell, Kate.

  56. Ruby Wednesday January 5th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    That sounds like a good plan, sign Chavez and let him be the left handed DH in a platoon with Montero, taking AB’s away from the kid right from the get go.

  57. J. Alfred Prufrock January 5th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
    This is strictly Hal doing his nickel-and-dime dance.

    – BLAKE -
    You wanna evaluate a player with a slide rule. I wanna use my eyes whenever possible. And the numbers do Not always tell the tale as we learned with Vazquez. To me, Garza last season with the Cubs, was Not the Garza we saw with Tampa, and Certainly Not a 2 Slotter in the AL East in 2012. Again, I wouldn’t even give up Noesi and Nunez.
    ///

    Donny, with all due respect, I think you have him mixed up with others in here. Not really a literal “numbers” guy at all; considers qualitative data (not that I agree with his conclusions all the time ;) and leaves out the silly hubris.

    BTW, saw your comment later re Martin. They do appear besotted with him, but I think they do like Romine’s receiving and if they think his bat is reasonable enough, they may save the extra $$$ and let Martin walk. We’ll see, though. Yeah, lol on the “Munson” comparison. Ridiculous, but there you have it…

  58. disco stu January 5th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    “Beginning the process of downgrading expectations in terms of blitzkrieg spending is well underway, and if you look at it pragmatically it makes perfect sense.”

    As long as they continue to win … if their seemingly new found thrifty ways of doing business results in seasons similar to 2008 when they are on the outside looking in once the playoffs start, I would venture to guess that they will have to rethink things.

    But as Tyler Kepner’s NYT article indicated, maybe the Yankees are being frugal right now because the cost of what is available does not fit their needs, but if next off season potential FA like Cole Hamels and Matt Cain are available we may still see them open their wallets in a big way again.

  59. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
    Zambrano deal official. He waived no-trade and $19.25M opt for ’13 that would have kicked in if he finished in top 4 of Cy vote.

    Zambrano also settled grievance with #Cubs, getting back 24 days salary from 30-game suspension w/o pay in 2011 – almost $2.4M. MORE #MLB

  60. blake January 5th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    JAP,

    Thanks….I try to look at all information …the saber stuff has really only started to grow on me on the last year or so….still don’t trust it all but I do think its interesting and think its bringing new fans to the game….which I like.

  61. J. Alfred Prufrock January 5th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Garza had much better FB, HR rates last season and is a good “big-game” pitcher. Still, not worth giving up Betances, who’s likely a year away.

    Again, if Anthony Ranaudo was the headliner in Boston talks with the Cubs, the latter would make out like bandits by receiving Hector Noesi. Philosophically, though, I’m for keeping our good young pitching and promoting whomever gets there fastest. Time for a predominantly homegrown team, outside of special cases (like if we have a shot at Hamels).

    Looks like Eduardo will be sticking around, eh?

    Later.

  62. bruceb January 5th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
    Maybe the Yankees just had no yen for nakajima.

    Was waiting for that one. Very good GB! Is this the most boring winter on record for the New York Yankees I wonder? The only thing that has amazed me this off season is how all you guys have managed to come up with topics to discuss each and every day. You are, indeed, the definition of “diehard fans.”

  63. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Nakajima is better than Nunez so this is kind of disappointing. Cash should have traded Nunez for whatever and signed Nakajima. IT wasn’t like he was looking for a big deal

  64. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Signed CC Sabathia.

    The Yankees signed one of the best pitchers in baseball this offseason, and you rae all bored.

  65. J. Alfred Prufrock January 5th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    blake, yea, that’s why I said “literally.” Always feel you are trying to reason through, not trying to out polemic anyone, etc.

    There’s some useful stuff in advanced stats, but talent and athletic ability as we know can be fluid, adjustments can be made sometimes, nascent skills can evolve, etc. and stats catch up and replace old precedent with new….

    Good one, all :D

  66. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Not really a boring winter. There’s not a lot on the market that’s worth the demands for mostly 2nd tier and below talent. They not only want the best, but, they want the best and anything close. It’s about time the Yankee front office stopped getting their pockets picked.

  67. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    There’s also something useful when people have the cognitive ability to realize that the “stats” are merely the results of “talent, athletic ability, distractions, adjustments”…

    Rather than constantly making excuses for why they aren’t valid, “open your eyes” so to speak.

  68. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    - Blake -
    I believe Garza has been in decline for 3 years running. He issa good pitcher, but not the dominating Chucker we saw once upon a time. Could be the league(s) catching up to him, general wear and tear, whatever. But he simply aint what he was, and in my opinion is a 3 Slotter. I watch Garza and I see him being a few ticks below Ervin Santana of the Angels, and I don’t consider either a 2 Slotter.

  69. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    I am disappointed they didn’t sign him. Chavez, if re-signed, is an injury waiting to happen. He has no power. Nakajima could have potentially been an upgrade, as well as insurance from Pena being on the team if a middle infielder gets hurt. Two million is just too expensive in salary these days.

    I would love for them to add Garza, and I don’t know what’s not to like. Last year he struck out almost a batter per inning while walking slightly over two per none. His fip was 2.95. He had a good ground ball rate.

    What else cold one ask for a no. 2 starter this side of Cliff Lee?

  70. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    donnybrook – You believe that a pitcher that has lowered his era and whip 3 years in a row is… on a decline?

  71. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    I have a feeling doonybrook doesn’t actually know how Matt Garza is.

  72. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Nunez would be a superstar in Japan. People see a few clips of a player and suddenly he’s a must have and spare no expense. If Nakajima was such a hot property, why didn’t anybody top the Yankee bid?

  73. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    who* bleh.

  74. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Donnybrook,

    Garza’s average fastball was 93.7. Hardly a sign of decline. Exactly what statistically declined last year and who do the Yankees have at no. 2 better than him?

    The scouts who are paid to make judgments are split if Betances will be a starter in the majors. He has upside, but I would say he has a far less then 50% chance to ever be as good as Garza.

  75. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    I believe Garza has been in decline for 3 years running. He issa good pitcher, but not the dominating Chucker we saw once upon a time/i>

    I mean, this is just completely at odds with reality. He has only been good for 4 years, before that he was terrible for the Twins.

  76. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Nakajima isn’t a superstar, nobody said he was. The fact of the matter is, it’s not hard to find a guy better than Nunez. Nakajima is a significant upgrade over Eduardo, simply because Nunez really is not a good player at all. I’m not that broken up about it because this is basically an end of the roster type of move so it doesn’t have a huge effect on the team.

  77. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    I believe Garza has been in decline for 3 years running.

    =============================

    Any evidence to support this belief?

  78. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Speed of a fastball is Not the way to judge a pitcher. Case in point: Farnsworth

  79. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Any evidence to support this belief?

    He went 10-10 last year and 15-10 the year before. DECLINE

    lol

  80. Tom in N.J. January 5th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    I wish A.J. would go into a Garza like decline….

  81. Ruby Wednesday January 5th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Chavez, if re-signed, is an injury waiting to happen.

    ////

    Nick Johnson’s second cousin.

  82. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    2011 was by far Garza’s best season.. not even close really

  83. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    cashman should be fired! how can he let a backup backup infielder with such talent (we think) get away???!!!??

    ALL IS LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  84. Pat M. January 5th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Why would Tamps move a pitcher of Garza’s age and contract after their run in 08 ???/ He’s still a better than average starter but he wore out his welcome in Maddon’s clubhouse….

  85. yankeefeminista January 5th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Not only has Garza not declined as per the numbers, but he has become a more complete pitcher now that he uses 4 pitches, and doesn’t overthrow his fastball. As a result he has even picked up some velo on his FB. He if anything has *evolved* as a pitcher.

  86. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    -PAT -
    Thanks for the back-up.

  87. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    He went 10-10 last year and 15-10 the year before. DECLINE

    ===================

    Aha!

    He finished!!!

  88. Yankee Trader January 5th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Wonder why it was reported today that Nakajima was on a plane to US.

    The Seibu Lions and Hiroyuki Nakajima’s management company informed the media today that Nakajima left for New York earlier today. The New York Yankees have until 1/6 at 5pm EST (or 1/7 at 7am JST) to work out a deal.

    Guess he came for post holiday shopping. :)

  89. Mike Ri January 5th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Why would Tamps move a pitcher of Garza?s age and contract after their run in 08 ???/ He?s still a better than average starter but he wore out his welcome in Maddon?s clubhouse?.

    —-

    There a small market team.. Thats how they operate. Draft well . .get what you can get of them and then trade them for more draft picks…… Garza ….. Shields will be gone soon . .and Price will be ours soon after

  90. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    but he wore out his welcome in Maddon?s clubhouse?.

    Pat M. – what do you know/heard?

  91. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Why would Tamps move a pitcher of Garza’s age and contract after their run in 08 ???/ He’s still a better than average starter but he wore out his welcome in Maddon’s clubhouse

    =========================================

    In many ways for the same reason the Tigers moved Granderson.

  92. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    - DOGGY -
    Thanks for the support.

  93. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    You are a sick individual.

  94. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    GB,

    I didn’t see anyone say Nakajima would be a superstar. From what I saw, he may well have been a productive player, but video highlights obviously show only highlights.

    I think it is a sign of austerity unless I see some evidence of their willingness to spend to improve last year’s team. I thought improvement was is the goal of every team’s off-season.

    It is curious they bid on him. Surely, they knew the ballpark of what he would require to sign. I read he wanted $2M/yr. Hardly superstar cost.

  95. 86w183 January 5th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    It must be fun to make stuff up.. especially when the documentation to prove you made it up is so easily at hand.

    Garza in Minnesota in 2007 had a 3.69 ERA. That’s hardly “terrible”. The Twins traded him for what they thought would be an elite bat in Delmon Young. He’d still be in Tampa if not for the financial implications.

    Using W-L record to “prove” decline is pretty weak.

  96. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Tampa traded Garza because it was a smart move, had nothing to do with Garza wearing out his welcome. Tampa got back great prospects in the deal, it was more than fair value for Garza. And Garza is getting close to free agency – to the point where Tampa can’t afford him. Then you look at the pitchers coming up through Tampa’s system and it’s pretty obvious why Garza was no longer necessary. Just look at who replaced Garza in the rotation – Jeremy Hellickson and now Matt Moore.

  97. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    who cares? they didnt sign some mediocre japanese player you never heard of before to be a bench player…seriously….

  98. blake January 5th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    “I believe Garza has been in decline for 3 years running.”

    Tell me why though…

  99. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    At the very least it will be fun to watch Ozzie and Big Z square off during a mound visit.

  100. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Thank god AJ Burnett isnt wearing out his welcome in the clubhouse. Only on the field.

  101. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Haha ok Ys Guy, when Nunez is hitting .250 with a .300 OBP and 10 errors by July and everyone on here is complaining about a crappy bench think about this day

  102. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    I don’t believe Garza climbed into any dog house in Tampa. Hell, Upton has had permanent residence in that dog house, yet he still is there.

  103. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    ozzie, big z, lomo, reyes, hanley on south beach….sounds like a reality show to me….

  104. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    They traded Garza because he was the best pitcher they had to get prospects with. Shields was coming off a disaster year and Wade Davis and Niemenn were both meh.

  105. yankeefeminista January 5th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Garza wasn’t in the doghouse in Tampa; the move was purely financial.

  106. blake January 5th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    They traded Garza because he was starting to make real.money in arbitration……and because they could get more in return for him than some of their other starters……same reason they’ll trade Price.

  107. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    patrick, what makes you think this dude would do any better? nobody was even willing to bid $3M on him…

  108. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    patrick – thats not fair, just because they didn’t sign this jap SS doesn’t mean they locked into having Nunez perform that role.

    If Nunez is batting .250 with a .300 OBP and 10 errors in june… it will be because the Yankees couldn’t find a better option. Obviously they didn’t think Nakajima was a better option. This is not to say they will not keep looking…

  109. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    patrick, what makes you think this dude would do any better? nobody was even willing to bid $3M on him…

    I’ve seen him play a little bit but also his stats in NPB mean something, you can’t just ignore them. People say NPB is basically like AAA or somewhere between AAA and MLB. Nakajima’s stats in Japan were far better than anything Nunez has done in the minors.

    And constantly quoting his posting fee means exactly nothing. Nakajima projects as a bench player in the majors, why would any team pay more than a few million dollars just to negotiate with him? Nunez projects as a AAA player.. it’s pretty simple dude

  110. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 1:50 pm
    GB,

    I didn’t see anyone say Nakajima would be a superstar. From what I saw, he may well have been a productive player, but video highlights obviously show only highlights.

    I think it is a sign of austerity unless I see some evidence of their willingness to spend to improve last year’s team. I thought improvement was is the goal of every team’s off-season.

    It is curious they bid on him. Surely, they knew the ballpark of what he would require to sign. I read he wanted $2M/yr. Hardly superstar cost.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Never said that Nakajima was called a superstar. I said Nunez would be in Japan.

    For such a no-talent bum like Nunez, he sure seems to be in demand as part of every big deal brought to Cashman.

  111. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    donnybrook – still waiting for any evidence to back up your statement that Garza is declining…

  112. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    nobody was even willing to bid $3M on him…

    Nobody was willing to draft Pujols or Piazza. What EVERYONE does often has little to do with what will actually happen. I don’t think Nakajima could be any worse than Nunez, and I think offensively he has a bit more upside. But I like Nunez. I just thought they could sell high on him before he gets relegated to backup IFer for life.

  113. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    If Nunez is batting .250 with a .300 OBP and 10 errors in june… it will be because the Yankees couldn’t find a better option. Obviously they didn’t think Nakajima was a better option. This is not to say they will not keep looking…

    And that’s why I’m criticizing them! Because it’s stupid to think Nakajima isn’t a better option and it’s a bad job by the Yankees in not acquiring a better backup infielder when half your infield is old and missed significant amounts of games last year. I can respect that the Yankees have a different opinion than mine regarding Nunez and Nakajima but I can also say they are dumb for thinking that way.

  114. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    For such a no-talent bum like Nunez, he sure seems to be in demand as part of every big deal brought to Cashman.

    Well, that’s because every big league GM is a dolt. Don’t you know anything, GB? The only path to true wisdom comes thru this blog.

  115. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    kaz matsui had great stats in japan. shades had great stats in japan..

    it’s a sign of austerity that they didnt want to spend 4 or 5 million on a backup infielder who might or might not be major league caliber?

    some of you guys need a hobby…

  116. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    kaz matsui had great stats in japan. shades had great stats in japan..

    Oh good this argument.

  117. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    So wait, Nunez is not the SS of the future anymore? :p

  118. Melk Man January 5th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    There were almost 60 starters in baseball who threw more innings than Burnett last year. There were almost 80 who came within 10 innings of his IP total.

    His “innings” value is overstated. It’s not like he’s Livan in the mid 2000s throwing 250 innings. He only cracked 190. For the league minimum, he’s not bad. For a couple mil, you can spend that much more efficantly for a small market team. At least Zambrano has upside, malcontent or not.

  119. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    - ID -
    Your late to the discussion. I’m allowing my defenders to deal with the numbers, I base my assessments More on the visual than the numbers. I don’t hear any complaining about my saying Garza is a few ticks below Ervin Santana, and he’s another 3 Slotter. Good pitcher, just not a 2 Slotter.

  120. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    you’re equating nunez to piazza? pujols? geez, get a grip, man….

  121. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    kaz matsui had great stats in japan. shades had great stats in japan..

    And Josh Fields had a 1 OPS in AAA and then couldnt hit a lick in japan. Being good anywhere doesnt prove anything. As obvious as every argument on here removing every level of competition as being irrelevant and risky.

  122. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    you’re equating nunez to piazza? pujols? geez, get a grip, man….

    Well you’ve managed to equate Nakajima to every other japanese person in the world so why not? If you’re arguing that its not a big deal because no one else did it/wanted to do it/whatever then thats weak and I will point out why its weak. Just like everyone jumping off a bridge doesnt make it good.

  123. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    I’m allowing my defenders to deal with the numbers, I base my assessments More on the visual than the numbers.

    You just won the award for “dumbest thing I’ve read today”

  124. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    i can imagine the same people losing it over letting some nobody go back home to japan would be roasting cashman in may if this guy made the team and then turned out to be a complete waste of money.

    some people can never be wrong….

  125. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    i can imagine the same people losing it over letting some nobody go back home to japan would be roasting cashman in may if this guy made the team and then turned out to be a complete waste of money

    LOHUD Fallacy, why would the people that want to see what Nakajima has crucify Cashman over signing him if he did bad? Its more likely the people that didn’t want him would be doing that.

  126. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    donnybrook – I base my assessments More on the visual than the numbers.

    No you don’t, you are basing this on absolutely nothing.

  127. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    -Ys -
    Nunez to Pujols aint so bad when you consider Cashman compared Montero to Pujols.

  128. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    You’re on a huge loss streak, Ys Guy.

  129. TD213 January 5th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    If the Yanks were so frugal with this Japanese SS after winning the posting fee, maybe it is good that they didn’t win the bidding for Darvish and embarrass themselves and him with an offer of 4/$55 or something.

    Disappointing. So much for trying to form a strong bond with Japan and trying to capitalize on that marketing.

  130. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    no, i’m saying its no big deal because it isn’t. you are the one losing it in january about the backup backup infielder that got away…

  131. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    - ID -
    And how do you believe Garza stacks up to Ervin Santana?

  132. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    donnybrook – If you were actually watching garza pitch (which you clearly are lying about) you would only see that he has pitched better in 2011 than at any point in his career. Your assertion that he was “better in the past” is complete nonsense, and he was pretty bad for the Twins before coming to Tampa.

    When what you think is completely at odds with the actual results of a players performance, it’s time to re-evaluate your opinion. You are supposed to use stats to back up your observations, to prove why you saw what you saw… not to spite your observation.

  133. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    who had the better stats in japan, kaz matsui or this dude?

  134. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    I base my assessments More on the visual than the numbers.

    ====================================

    Okay Donny, what exactly does the Bausch & Lomb scouting method tell you that suggests this decline you speak of?

  135. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Perhaps you need to look a little closer at Nunez’ 2010 AAA season before deciding that he’s never put up “good numbers like Nakajima” at the age of 23. Hardly disgraceful offense numbers as a rookie utility player. Did he have defensive issues? Sure, nobody’s denying that, but, apparently, Nakajima isn’t exactly Ozzie Smith or Omar Vizquel, either.

  136. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    donnybrook – What does ervin sanatana have to do with your statement that Garza is in decline? Don’t change the subject.

  137. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Ys,

    And some need a reality check. Baseball players get paid a lot. A $2M salary would be a small fraction of the average Yankee pay. The Yankees have no SS depth after Nunez. None. Nakajima could provided that. Oh wait, they have Pena and his sub-Mendoza line bat.

    As a fan, I simply want the team to improve their chances. They have not, preferring to keep the money rather than spend it on the team. That is their choice as it is mine not to like it.

  138. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    i can imagine the same people losing it over letting some nobody go back home to japan would be roasting cashman in may if this guy made the team and then turned out to be a complete waste of money.

    some people can never be wrong….

    Who is losing it? I’ve seen people post that they are disappointed Nakajima didn’t sign but that’s about it. Try to make an argument that isn’t based on hysterics and hyperbole

  139. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    - DOGGY -
    I believe the mole on his right cheek got just a little larger as the 2011 season progressed.

  140. blake January 5th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Donny,

    What do you see that makes you feel this way…..also Garza has been much more consistent than Ervin Santana over the last 4 seasons.

  141. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Losing it = devoting any amount of resources to talking about the Yankees bidding on, winning, then waiting 30 days to decline signing a player.

    Using the transitive property we can conclude that Ys Guy is losing it over people losing it, and thus needs a hobby.

  142. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    ID,

    Donnybrook’s response is “oh well, never mind.” Clearly, Garza is a good pitcher and should be expected to remain so.

  143. blake January 5th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    I base my arguments on visual things sometimes…..but when I do I always include what I see that makes me feel that way.

  144. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    blake – don’t waste your breath, donnybrook is clearly not handling this conversation in good faith.

    No sense in arguing with someone that thinks they see something in spite of all evidence to the contrary. They call that crazy, and crazy believes what they say.

  145. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    - ID -
    Again, your late to this discussion. We initially were talking about whether Garza was NOW a 3 Slotter as oppossed to his previous 2 Slot status. If the guy is currently a 3 Slotter, where previously he was a 2 Slotter, the answer to your question is obvious.

  146. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    .280/.340/.381 is impressive? It would be ok if it’s for a really good defensive SS. Oh wait we were talking about Nunez.

    Nakajima last 4 years:
    2008: .331/.410/.527
    2009: .309/.398/.493
    2010: .314/.385/.511
    2011: .297/.354/.433

  147. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    austinmac – lol yes… :)

    Would you be happier that the Yankees spent $5mil on a backup shortstop to later find out he wasn’t any good… or would you be happier with them passing on a $5mil backup shortstop and keep looking for better options that can cover more positions for that amount of money?

  148. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Again, your late to this discussion.

    Please. You’re

    Thank you

  149. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    so you’re saying the yankees have no backup ss for their backup ss.

    in january….

  150. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    austinmac – how much SS depth should they have? how much ss depth do the red sox have? or anyone else for that matter? if you’re looking for someone to replace pena in the depth chart, that person isn’t going to see much ML playing time, and should expect to be paid accordingly.

  151. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 2:01 pm
    For such a no-talent bum like Nunez, he sure seems to be in demand as part of every big deal brought to Cashman.

    Well, that’s because every big league GM is a dolt. Don’t you know anything, GB? The only path to true wisdom comes thru this blog.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I forgot. I’m so ashamed. I’ve been around Randy too long.

  152. blake January 5th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    “If the guy is currently a 3 Slotter, where previously he was a 2 Slotter, the answer to your question is obvious.”

    This isn’t true though ……unless you think he got worse because he spent a year as an NL chucker

  153. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    donnybrook – I think you are late to this discussion, like you never honestly participated in it.

    You said this…
    I wanna use my eyes whenever possible. And the numbers do Not always tell the tale as we learned with Vazquez. To me, Garza last season with the Cubs, was Not the Garza we saw with Tampa
    and this…
    I believe Garza has been in decline for 3 years running. He issa good pitcher, but not the dominating Chucker we saw once upon a time

    Any time you feel like backing up one of those 2 statements with something based in reality, let us know.

  154. yankee 221 January 5th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    TD,

    Get used to it – this is the way NYY does business now. Lowball everyone, show half-interest in a million guys but never serious enough, overrate their farm……

    Sherman ended up right though – he said that Nakajima wanted to play for Bobby V and Bobby V loves him and the plan was for him to sign with BOS next winter. That alone should have been enough to make him a representative offer… if he is good enough for Bobby V who sleeps with eats and breaths Japanese baseball… it is good enough for me……

  155. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Any time you feel like backing up one of those 2 statements with something based in reality, let us know.

    Like Chip, he feels it in his gut and that is not something you can argue with.

    Garza is literally the best pitcher of all time. Why? I believe it. Prove me wrong, I’ll leave the stats to my defenders because I judge with my eyes

  156. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    patrick – Chip isn’t even this obstinate in spite of evidence to the contrary… or a total lack of evidence.

  157. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    I’d also love an explanation of how you “see” the difference between a “2 slotter” and a “3 slotter” (and maybe explain without “numbers” what the heck that actually means).

  158. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    How do you account for the difference in competition between the leagues without seeing every start of every game all season? THERE JUST ISN’T TIME MAN!

  159. mick January 5th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    don’t you guys have something better to do?

  160. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    When you see a Chucker you just know in your gut if he’s a 3 Slotter or a 2 Slotter. Could even be a 1 Slotter but those are rare.

    This entire discussion makes me want to be an up-Chucker

  161. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    A 1 slotter NL chucker? pffft maybe in little league, get some glasses patrick.

  162. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Joe and ID,

    I think they could use another backup middle infielder as Nunez and Pena are it. If Cano of Jeter goes down, then Pena is up. I never want to see Pena hit or try to again.

    If I felt the Yankees were holding $5M(and where did that number come from?) to do something better with it, that would be fine. I think they are simply pocketing the money since I see no sign they are willing to spend. Their, apparently, isn’t a baseball player on the planet who isn’t too costly.

    If you see signs I am wrong, I would be delighted for the signs to be pointed out.

  163. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    The “visual” huggers are hilarious to me, like watching a priest try to explain dinosaurs.

  164. 86w183 January 5th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Is a “#1″ one of the 30 best in MLB? I don’t get these claims that this guy is a “# 2″ and the other guy is a “# 3″.

    Do the Phillies have 2 # 1s and a # 2? What does it take to get promoted from one level to the next?

    It’s all goofy. You want the best 5 you can get your hands on. If you can acquire someone who is better than your projected worst guy and the price is reasonable you should do so.

    There’s no question Garza would improve the Yanks rotation so the question is, “What’s the price tag you’re willing to pay”???

  165. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    austinmac – $5mil i made up for the posting fee + contract. I would rather see that much money better spent on a player that can back-up multiple positions.

    I just can’t imagine that they believe Nunez is better than anyone, so there must have been a good reason for not giving Nakajima what he wanted. I don’t buy the conspiratorial “they don’t know what they are doing” nonsense.

  166. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    ~-**-=== ID ===-**-~

    hmm, good point

    Clearly I have no idea what I’m talking about so I guess I will just defer all discussion of Chuckers and Slotters to donny

  167. blake January 5th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    “Is a “#1? one of the 30 best in MLB? I don’t get these claims that this guy is a “# 2? and the other guy is a “# 3?.”

    They are just arbitrary numbers to try and classify how good a pitcher is….it doesn’t fit every situation but when you say a #2 or solid number most people that follow the game know what level guy you’re talking about.

    LGY or somebody posted averages for all the pitching slots 1-5 in the big leagues one time……like what the average #2 starter on a teams numbers were etc…..wish I coukd find that.

  168. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    rofl :(

  169. Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    austinmac – i understand you’re point. and, i think your analysis about their middle infielders is about right. the guys in the minors, like adams, might do well enough at the fielding, but have obvious questions about their hitting abilities at this point in their development.

    it’s just that i think that other teams are in a similar bind with respect to backups. they are lucky if they have one guy who can step in for an indefinite period, and a bunch who you can use for an inning or a couple games without losing a lot. but, there’s a reason why backups are backups, and that’s because they’re not good enough in the first place.

    it’s a bit of a long answer, i know. but, i’m just not too worked up about it. with any luck, it won’t be an issue during the season.

  170. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    To me it should be very simple to split up pitchers into “slots”…

    Top 30 pitchers in baseball are “#1′s”, 31-60 are “#2′s”.

    How is Garza not in one of those 2 categories? Someone here can honestly name 60 pitchers better than Garza?

  171. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Clearly I have no idea what I’m talking about so I guess I will just defer all discussion of Chuckers and Slotters to donny

    ==========================

    We still talking about baseball???

  172. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    We still talking about baseball???

    whats a garza

  173. dogface January 5th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Someone here can honestly name 60 pitchers better than Garza?

    =============================

    Might have a tough time naming 30.

  174. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Garza (Santiago del Estero) is a municipality and village in Santiago del Estero in Argentina… I would believe that Donny saw this town in Argentina before I believed he watched and evaluated any Matt Garza starts in 2011.

  175. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    can we post aj to japan?….korea?….argentina???

  176. Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    …massachusetts???

  177. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Maybe they should have posted AJ as the bid for Darvish?

  178. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    - PATRICK -
    Your wasting your time with some of these people. They deal strictly in numbers onna sheet of paper\ a spread sheet or whatever they wanna call it. Some of us, (you included), understand there is a rhythm or energy to a players performance every single game, as there is a rhythm or energy to each game and the entire season for that matter. They’ll call us kooks or shaolin priests, etc, but it is truly their loss, and you can only hope they discover this beautiful and intrical part of the game.

  179. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    donnybrook – I watch more baseball than you, I guarantee it.

    If you honestly believe that Garza has been “declining” then I seriously question your ability to watch a baseball game.

    “A waste of time” is arguing with someone like you.

  180. Red Robin January 5th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    L . o . l .

  181. Tom in N.J. January 5th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Thought-terminating clichés!

  182. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    donnybrook – As part of your observations, you must have been tracking some data so that you could keep it all straight in your head. I assume you won’t allow us to see your research?

  183. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    NYYs have 2nd basemen that can field and hit, though, shortstops are where they’re lacking. Adams and Joseph can fill in and 2nd or possibly 3rd, but, they aren’t shortstops. There’s absolutely no idea of what Nakajima would do. Not many Japanese hitters have made the transition to MLB pitchers…3 maybe…..Matsui, Suzuki and Iguchi.

  184. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    #1′s are aces, guys who pitch a lot of innings with great stats. #2s are guys with ace potential that have some flaw that holds them back. #3 will be above average and give innings. #4 is a dependable innings guy or maybe an undependable guy that could be very good. #5 is basically anyone that can give innings without throwing up all over themselves.

    The real numbers by rotation spot is worse:

    Lg #1 #2 #3 #4 #5
    MLB 3.60 4.14 4.58 5.10 6.24
    AL 3.70 4.24 4.58 5.09 6.22
    NL 3.51 4.04 4.57 5.11 6.26

    Most people when they say so and so projects to be a #5 don’t mean he will have a 6 ERA. The ideal #5 is league average or better, but the accepted #5 is probably league average or worse, but should give innings.

  185. Red Robin January 5th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    L . o . e . l .

  186. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    donnybrook – Here, you should have probably learned this in the 4th grade… but apparently you have forgotten how to observe something.

    http://www.sciencebuddies.org/.....thod.shtml

  187. blake January 5th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Let’s try and name 30 starting pitchers better than Matt Garza….

  188. mick January 5th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    leave the game to the scientists, we who enjoy the game as we played it as youths are a different breed relying on our senses to interpret what we see…what a crime!

  189. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    - BUD SELIG -
    Forgive ID, for he knows not what he does.

  190. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    Iwamura was good. Fukudome is good as well. Just not as good as they were in the NPB, but still valuable major leaguers. The disappointment is that the Yankees will never know what Nakajima could bring to the diamond. It didnt even require getting rid of Nunez to sign him. Nunez could do with a full season in AAA working on things.

  191. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    You are a sad little man Donny.

    I played ball for 22 years and I watch 4-5 games a night via MLB extra innings.

    You clearly do not.

  192. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    - mick -
    Well said.

  193. blake January 5th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    JF,

    Thanks…..and obviously a #1 in some rotations isn’t a #1 in others. Garza would be the best pitcher several big league rotations…..

  194. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    donnybrook – You know, rather than trying to be funny (and failing miserably) you could just… answer one of the 20 questions we’ve posed to you to back up your ridiculous opinion.

  195. Patrick January 5th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    Donny,

    I actually am a Shaolin Monk so I don’t mind if someone calls me one

  196. mick January 5th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    paying a posting fee is a fraud and should be abolished, maybe the yanks are looking to expose this and played with their japanese heads, altho they are good at math, it’s like the fee football teams charge you now to buy tickets, what is that called again?

  197. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    - ID -
    My spread sheet would disprove your “little man” assertion.

  198. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    donnybrook – At this point i’m convinced you couldn’t prove the sky was blue.

  199. blake January 5th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    I have no problem with folks using their eyes to support arguments……but you actually have to include what your eyes see for it to have much merit.

  200. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    I have no problem with folks using their eyes to support arguments

    Here’s the thing. Everyone should be, no one should be disregarding what you see. You are supposed to use the stats (read: results) of games to back up and prove what you saw.

    People that can’t understand how to use stats accuse those that do of “not watching” which is completely absurd, and it’s a sad little game that they try to pull around here.

  201. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    - ID -
    Well, now that you mention it, that is an optical illusion.

  202. mick January 5th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    you guys are too overanalytical…who really cares about all this nonsense?

  203. GreenBeret7 January 5th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Iwamura lasted all of 2 and a half years and disappeared.

  204. Shame Spencer January 5th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Joe from Long Island January 5th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    So your biggest complaint is that the team is boring you?

    You want excitement? Go running down Broadway stark naked and yell that you’re going to challenge the Naked Cowboy to a singing duet. I bet you’ll make page 3 of the Post. :)

    ———————–

    Page 3 of the NY Post… Page 1 in my heart.

  205. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    mick – since you don’t seem to care about anything that gets discussed here, why are you here?

  206. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    donnybrook – Ohhhh, so you do understand how to answer a question.

    So now answer the rest of the questions, starting with what you “saw” that makes you think Garza is in “decline”.

    Unless you want to retract all of those statements like you asked me to one day…

    COME ON DONNY, stop running away from what you said.

  207. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    - ID -
    Nobody during this discussion has accused you of Not watching games.

  208. pat January 5th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Lack of Yankee happenings is causing me to work productively.

    This can not continue or someone will notice how much I’ve slacked for years now. :sad:

  209. mick January 5th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    i care about the discussions but find some of them repetitive, self serving and boring…

  210. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    - ID -
    Now your sounding like Dean Trask in “Scent of a Woman”. My responce, “Well I saw something”.

  211. mick January 5th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    HOOOO HAHHHHH!!!

  212. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    donnybrook – That’s fine, if that’s your response that’s really sad though.

    At least no one else here will make the mistake of reading and believing one of your opinions again.

  213. hardwired7 January 5th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    We’re going streaking!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20g3QIUnOgY

  214. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    pat January 5th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
    Lack of Yankee happenings is causing me to work productively.

    This can not continue or someone will notice how much I?ve slacked for years now.

    ********************

    I’m having the exact same problem. ;)

  215. mick January 5th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    I find some of the sabre guys to be internet bullies…

  216. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    I find the term “internet bully” to be the last bastion of people with poorly thought out opinions.

    Would you rather be accused of lies left and right and not defend yourself?

  217. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    “What kinda show you guys puttin’ on here”?

  218. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    ID
    Are you a lawyer of some sort? just askin’?

  219. austinmac January 5th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Face,

    Intreresting stats. It appears Burnett is a no. 4 starter under those numbers. Wouldn’t Garza make a wonderful no. 2? I am not saying they should give whatever it takes to get him, but I do say if they got him they would be significantly improved.

    While everyone is entitled to their opinion, sometimes they are demonstrably wrong.

  220. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Pacino as Serpico over the Hoo Hah guy in Scent?
    consensus?

  221. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    He aint no Atticus Finch, that’s for sure.

  222. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    forgot dog day afternoon guy..

  223. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Iwamura lasted all of 2 and a half years and disappeared.

    So did Iguchi. So do many players in baseball. Iwamura hit .281 .354 .393 .747 over 344 games and then got hurt and went back to Japan.

  224. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    mick – No, I’m not a lawyer… probably should have been.

    I fail to understand why someone would take such an ill informed opinion, post it on the internet and then be surprised that people want to understand why you think that way. Then act twice as surprised when it is revealed they used zero evidence to form this opinion and the opinion is disregarded as nonsense.

  225. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    or scarface, of course..

  226. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    mick – No, I’m not a lawyer… probably should have been.
    ====================
    but you play one on Lohud.

  227. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    I take Lt. Colonel Frank Slade (retired).

  228. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    mick – What makes you say that? That I can form an opinion and defend it?

  229. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    I fail to understand why someone would take such an ill informed opinion, post it on the internet and then be surprised that people want to understand why you think that way. Then act twice as surprised when it is revealed they used zero evidence to form this opinion and the opinion is disregarded as nonsense.
    =====================
    prolly to annoy ppl like you?

  230. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    prolly to annoy ppl like you?

    ahhh yes, but I’m not annoyed at all.

    I find quite a bit of entertainment watching people like donny squirm around the fact that their opinions are ridiculous.

  231. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    1)Serpico
    2)Dog Day
    3)Scarface
    4)Scent

  232. Erin January 5th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    New Post: No Nakajima, no problem

    :arrow:

  233. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    - ID -
    I deal with the numbers to a point as I play fantasy baseball for $$$. Problem is, the numbers Never stop. You deal with the basic numbers, then the periferal numbers, then what about the run support, what about the avgs. of the lineups a pitcher faces, it just goes on- and-on and the Actual game loses it’s beauty. It becomes Nothing but figures onna stat sheet. Might as well just feed the numbers into a computer and see what it spits out and let that decide which team wins and which loses.

  234. jacksquat January 5th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    can we post aj to japan?….korea?….argentina???

    Ys Guy January 5th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    …massachusetts???

    Scranton.

  235. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Know Justice, Know Peace or is it
    No Justice, No Peace?

  236. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    I deal with the numbers to a point as I play fantasy baseball for $$$. Problem is, the numbers Never stop. You deal with the basic numbers, then the periferal numbers, then what about the run support, what about the avgs. of the lineups a pitcher faces, it just goes on- and-on and the Actual game loses it’s beauty. It becomes Nothing but figures onna stat sheet. Might as well just feed the numbers into a computer and see what it spits out and let that decide which team wins and which loses.
    ===============================
    I pity the child who has to grow up with this number crunching.
    APBA and Stratomatic were plenty of fun w/o all this mind numbing nerd inducing crap.

  237. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    - mick -
    Agree. It’s a beautiful game if you do Not allow the numbers to take it over and ruin it.

  238. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Yankee Philosophy:
    No Zambrano, No Problem or was it
    Know Zambrano, Know Problem?

  239. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    It’s most beautiful if you have played it, any level, intensely.

  240. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Its funny when people try to say that numbers ruin the game. It just ruins your ability to spout BS and acting like you know something. It doesnt ruin the ability to watch the game or your own personal enjoyment that comes from it. Unless you found personal enjoyment pretending to know something ~because you played~

  241. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    - mick -
    Agree. Greatest Sport\Game there is, the ratings be damned.

  242. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    i wonder if the sabre crowd were good at math and science in school?
    i was good at math not science.
    i can appreciate what they are trying to say but it is basically boring to the average guy/gal.
    i find baseball more of a mathematical game than a scientific one but then again i found science boring.

  243. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    - Jerkface -
    The Game has always been about numbers, but that level has now risen to the point of smothering the actual game on the field.

  244. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    There is no “outside the box” when it comes to the sabre crowd. To me, that is sad.

  245. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Its funny when people try to say that numbers ruin the game. It just ruins your ability to spout BS and acting like you know something.
    ==========================
    dont you guys ever argue over your wealth of stats?
    isn’t it just taking bs to another level?

  246. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    but that level has now risen to the point of smothering the actual game on the field.

    How? Numbers dont change anything that happens on the field.

  247. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Sabermetrics has been a part of baseball longer than any of you have been fans.

  248. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    some ppl have been fans longer than you have been alive….i am not an animal!

  249. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Mick I regret to inform you that mathematics is a type of science.

  250. Jerkface January 5th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    some ppl have been fans longer than you have been alive….i am not an animal!

    And sabermetrics has been around longer than you’ve been alive. Here is another banana

  251. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Mick I regret to inform you that mathematics is a type of science.
    ===============
    maybe in your high school

  252. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Here is another banana
    ================
    elitist

  253. DONNYBROOK January 5th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    As my Dad used to say, “When all else fails, they Always resort to the personal attack”.

  254. mick January 5th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    as tominga says “adhominem” or as ralph kramden says a homina homina.

  255. Irreverent Discourse January 5th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    This is the saddest argument I’ve ever heard. The numbers only ruin the game for you because you don’t understand them. Stop trying to force your lack of understanding of baseball on the rest of us.

  256. 108 stitches January 5th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Expect to be reading that Eduardo Nunez is working extra hard with Mick Kelleher to improve his footwork, positioning, and throwing skills both in ST and during the regular season.
    Anytime the Yankees are holding a sizeable lead in the 7th or 8th innings, in comes Nunez and out comes Derek or Alex or both if Chavez is signed and healthy.

  257. tomingeorgia January 5th, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    mick,
    Hi! You remembered.

  258. Ruby Wednesday January 5th, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    Stat loser geeks in the minority here for sure.

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