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What’s next?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 14, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Was there ever a more perfect time to use my favorite West Wing inspired headline?

Jesus Montero is gone. Hector Noesi is gone. The rotation is suddenly overflowing. The Yankees changed the course of their entire offseason last night.

And when there’s a splash like that, there will be ripples.

Losing Montero means the Yankees no longer have an obvious candidate to be their everyday designated hitter. But the team does want to use that spot to rest Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter, and the free agent market still has some solid bats. There are already some indications that Carlos Pena might have jumped onto the radar. 

It’s also hard not to notice that the Yankees suddenly have seven legitimate starting pitchers for five spots. You never have too much pitching, but the sudden abundance certainly opens the possibility of trading an arm for a bat. Will it happen? We’ll see. Obviously the potential is there.

As for losing Noesi, it’s hard to notice at the moment. With so much pitching coming into the picture, Noesi was a tiny piece of a big night. He could be a legitimate big league starter in the not-so-distant future, but the Yankees kept the rest of their considerable upper-level pitching depth. There’s a better chance that the Yankees will need a Noesi-type three years down the road, and they might have gotten that future Noesi-level prospect in Jose Campos.

Associated Press photo

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532 Responses to “What’s next?”

  1. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    SJ44 wants Zimmerman? Too bad the Nats won’t move him for Hughes or minor league pitching…or would they? Hughes + Betances?

  2. tom tresh 15 January 14th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    SJ likes the move. I dont know enough about Pineda to say. I have to just trust the Braintrust in the Bronx and hope for the best. Hate losing Montero , but to gain something good, you usually have to give something of value up

  3. blake January 14th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    the Yankees are formulating the “Pineda rules” as we speak :(

  4. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Nats would be crazy to move Zimmerman. He’s definitely not superfluous. In fact, they’ve basically built their franchise around him.

  5. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Trisha,

    True. SJ44 is dreaming.

  6. Mike Ri January 14th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    How about David Wright

  7. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    CB-

    Appreciate your input. Hopefully Michael Pineda at 6’7? and 270 will have a long healthy career and be the mirror image of CC Sabathia.

    I looked at all teams where Montero might have gotten a chance to catch or play first in the NL and DH/catch in the AL, and after eliminating the AL East as trading partners, there weren’t many fits where the Yankees could have traded just Montero and Noesi for a young starting pitcher.

    Bumgarner of the Giants already had Posey at catcher
    Garcia of the Cards were already set at C/1B
    The only possibility might have been the Brewers as a 1B/C for Yovani Gallardo.

    Any thoughts on what other young pitchers the Yankees might have gotten who were better than Pineda without sacrificing more than they did?

  8. raymagnetic January 14th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Trading Montero for Pineda makes absolutely no sense. Pineda is not some established major league pitcher. He’s a project.

    Everyone has been saying for years that Montero’s bat is ready or the big leagues and has been ready for some time.

    I just don’t get it. You trade one of the best bats your organization has had for year for a 2 pitch project pitcher. :(

    This trade hurts big time. :(

  9. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Ryan Zimmerman is as unlikely as Andrew McCutchen of the Pirates. Sure the Yankees have arms to deal for either one but those teams aren’t looking to move them. The Nats have a great 1-2 with Strasburg and Gio and they’re looking to add offense, not subtract it. Their pitching is fine.

  10. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I don’t think there’s a chance in hell we sign Zimmerman, Fielder, or Wright (my personal pipe dream), but after last night I don’t think any of us are guilty of wild speculation lol…

    And just to repost: Its great seeing Betsy and Rich from NJ back around here.. wish more folks would return and try to block out the noise.

  11. blake January 14th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    “How about David Wright”

    he’s expensive….if he gets traded then he can become a FA after 2012….and I’m not sure how good he even is anymore. I’d do it but probably not for a price the Mets would.

  12. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Absolutely not crazy about the thought of Carlos Pena. What the heck would he add? To me he just keeps getting worse, not better.

  13. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    The Nats could well be trading partners, IF they sign Fielder. They are looking for a CF’er and Gardner could fill that role. Would a trade for Michael Morse involving other players be of interest.

  14. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Pure speculation, of course, BUT…

    If (and it’s a big if) the Yankees opt to trade for a bat, keep Nelson Cruz in mind.

    The Yankees like Cruz and have previously attempted to trade for him at least once.

    There are some whispers that Rangers might be entertaining the idea of signing Prince Fielder AND keeping Josh Hamilton. Cruz would likely be available under those circumstances.

    Would love to see it. I’ll take Cruz over Nick Swisher ANY DAY and their yearly salaries are going to end up being in the same ballpark.

  15. Betsy January 14th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Hi Blake

    Actually, I just don’t see there being any room for him – either he or AJ will be traded or sent to the pen. He did look fantastic in the post-season, but I think that was because he was in the pen. I’ll grant that his arm did look healthy then, but I don’t think health has anything to do with why he has struggled so much at time. Health doesn’t explain why he has been unable to develop pitches beyond his FB – forget the change, it’s the curve I’ve been disappointed in. He’s also not the very smart pitcher we heard so much about in the minors. Actually, I was saying these things early in 2010 – before he started to struggle. I recall having huge conversations with CB about it – I just did not think there was any way he could keep it up with only 2 pitches. For the record, no matter what anyone thinks, I do not relish, nor have I ever relished, saying this stuff. I will feel a twinge when he’s traded or he leaves – despite my reservations.

    Bret, glad to hear it. I think Gardner is safe for now – but if he does not have a strong year, they are going to have to deal with him as well – I agree.

    Trish, saw your post in the prior thread – thanks. I don’t think I’m back and I really needed more than just a break, but last nights news was too big for me to remain silent. I’m still trying to process it all, lol.

  16. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Dump Hughes, dump AJ, dump R. Soriano get cheaper in RF…

    VOILA!

    $$$$$$$$$$$

    PRINCE FIELDER

  17. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    To me he just keeps getting worse, not better

    ——————-

    Not just to you, trisha lol, I think he’s been trending that way for a while. I’d pass on Pena.

    I can’t wait till someone suggests Manny…. you know its coming!

  18. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Bret – and they have Stamen, Storen, Lannan, Zimmerman, and Wang in the wings. They are not hurting for pitching!

  19. blake January 14th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Call Boras and offer him 2/55 for Fielder……then trade AJ and hope Soriano opts out next year. Prince comes off after 2013 and increases revenues in the present.

  20. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Shame – someone already did! Last night!!!

    :)

  21. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Casey Kotchman had a terrific year, had an OB% .378 which would have led all full-time position players on the Yankees and batted .306, .289 from the left side.

    Might he be a good inexpensive FA signing?

  22. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:39 am
    Dump Hughes, dump AJ, dump R. Soriano get cheaper in RF…
    ==============================================

    How does “dumping AJ” save the Yankees money when they are going to have to pay most of his remaining contract just to get somebody to TAKE him???

  23. blake January 14th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Betsy,

    trading AJ is by far the preference…..but if the Yanks could get a good bat in return for a deal involving Hughes I don’t doubt they’d do it. Somebody will be dealt before opening day…..they can’t take up roster spots with starting pitchers that aren’t going to pitch….and pretty much none of the excess are candidates to send to AAA

  24. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Nelson Cruz could be sweet. But I don’t see the Rangers as wanting to do anything to help out the Yanks! Don’t know if they would be trading partners.

  25. Shame Spencer January 14th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Trisha – Really?! I’m sorry I missed that lol. Ya know.. one must wonder if Ortiz thought there’d be a spot for him on the Yankees if he would’ve re-upped so quickly with the Sox. Not that I want him or have ever advocated acquiring Ortiz but I bet a lot of those big bats that already signed like Ortiz and Beltran are kind of kicking themselves a bit now. When the Yankees are in play, everyone makes more money..

  26. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:44 am

    CashmanSUX,

    I think a team would assume 5 million per year on AJ.

  27. Faiaz January 14th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Trisha

    After his 46HRs in 07, he is averaging 30+ HRs for the last 4 seasons. However he has not hit over .230 for the past 3 seasons and he does strike out quite a bit. Which other DH would you choose that will give us a 30/100 yr?

  28. Mike Ri January 14th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    According to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, the Yankees now have free agent Carlos Pena on their radar.
    The Yankees are set to trade Jesus Montero to the Mariners in a four-player deal, so they suddenly have a need for another hitter. Pena would make some sense, but they are likely considering other names, as well. The 33-year-old batted .225/.357/.462 with 28 home runs, 80 RBI and an .819 OPS over 606 plate appearances with the Cubs last in 2011. He has also drawn interest from the Indians and Rays this offseason.

  29. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:43 am
    Nelson Cruz could be sweet. But I don’t see the Rangers as wanting to do anything to help out the Yanks! Don’t know if they would be trading partners.
    ==========================================

    IF cruz was made available and IF the Yankees made the offer the Rangers liked best, Cruz would be trade to the Yankees. With VERY few exceptions, nobody is out there purposely taking what they view as lesser talent in trade just to avoid “helping out” some other team.

  30. blake January 14th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Bowden’s take.

    What they got
    Yankees: Pineda should slot in as the Yankees’ No. 2 starter, between C.C. Sabathia and Ivan Nova. But make no mistake — the 22-year-old right-hander is destined to lead a rotation at some point in the future. He went just 9-10 with a 3.74 ERA with Seattle last year, displaying an overpowering fastball that sat in the 95-100 mph range and that looks even harder and gets on hitters quicker because of his 6-foot-7 frame with late, explosive, four-seam movement. His slider is nasty, too, and as with his fastball, he possesses uncanny command of the pitch in the zone. He also backdoors the slider to lefties, putting it on the black at will. His changeup has good deception and arm speed.

    The Yankees also get a promising prospect in Campos, 19. At 6-4, 200 pounds, Campos owns an electric 93-96 mph fastball with downward plane. His slider probably is his best breaking pitch, but his 12-6 curveball rarely makes the strike zone. However, a young man with this type of arm is no throw-in.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/blo.....s-rotation

  31. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    They need to dump AJ AND Hughes.

    Look…

    CC
    Pineda
    Nova
    Kuroda
    Garcia

    Banuelos
    Betances
    Warren
    Phelps
    Mitchell

  32. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 11:44 am
    CashmanSUX,

    I think a team would assume 5 million per year on AJ.
    ==================================================

    That’s what I mean… So the Yankees are paying AJ Burnett $22 million to eat innings (maybe more in the NL) for somebody else and getting next to nothing back.

    That’s a tough pill to swallow.

  33. Betsy January 14th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    Blake, though I think Phil has an option, he shouldn’t be in AAA at this point. I agree with you about trading AJ, but Hal is not going to eat the majority of that contract and that’s what it would take. I don’t think Phil is enough to bring back a good bat, unfortunately. In any case, for the sake of his career, I’d almost rather see him traded than sent to the pen. Another year in the pen would make it very hard for him to start for another team in 2013 – he’d be back to square one, yet again.

  34. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    NIX on Pena. YEA on Damon.

  35. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Nothing personal, Blake… But why does ANYBODY put any stock in Jim Bowden has to say???

    The guy is one the radio for a reason! He was absolutely one of the worst GM’s in the history of major league baseball.

    You know my overall opinion of Cashman… I’m telling you, Jim Bowden can’t even see Cashman’s tailights from where he’s at.

  36. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Blake-

    Why would Fielder want to sign a 2 year deal with the Yankees, as a DH, even if he played 1st on a rare occasion, when he could be an everyday 1st baseman with the Nats or with the Rangers if they don’t sign Darvish by this Wednesday.

  37. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    Faiaz, to tell you the truth, Montero was so solidly implanted in my mind that I never thought beyond Montero. I guess I’d like to re-sign Chavez and give Andruw Jones and Chavez turns DHing.

  38. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 11:49 am
    NIX on Pena. YEA on Damon.

    =================================================

    second!

  39. CB January 14th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    “Any thoughts on what other young pitchers the Yankees might have gotten who were better than Pineda without sacrificing more than they did?”

    Trader,

    Don’t get me wrong. I really like Pineda. He is a tremendous young arm. In terms of equity and baseball value this was a very fair trade.

    I personally wouldn’t have done it. I just think there’s so much more risk and potential for odd development issues to take place with a young pitcher compared to a young hitter. And the yankees resource in the minors is really young pitching as it is.

    I’m leery of Pineda getting hurt. It’s not even anything specific on him – though he has had elbow problems in the past. It’s just that young pitchers are so prone to fizzling for different reasons. To trade a bat like Montero’s and take on that risk is a difficult proposition IMO. Montero is going to rake.

    The other aspect of this deal that I really don’t care for is that is was enormously driven by financial considerations. Rather than utilize their money to fill a gap – they used talent. That’s generally not a great thing for the Yanks to be doing.

    People really need to understand this. The Yankees traded for Pineda as a pathway to get below the salary cap in 2014. That was a huge driver for this deal.

    Given that context (likely set by ownership) and despite the fact that I wouldn’t have made this trade, I think Cashman in some ways did brilliantly.

    He had to figure out how to get under the cap for 2014 while allowing the yankees to continue to compete every year. Very difficult proposition. And he had to do it during a winter when the “market price” for a young pitcher was extremely high.

    If you compare the Pineda deal with the “market price” for other pitchers this winter – the Yankees did extremely well. Getting Campos back was a fantastic get. He’s really good for his age.

    So it’s really not the specifics of Pineda or this deal that I have reservations about. Pineda is much better than any young moved this winter.

    I just think expectations for Pineda have gotten out of hand quickly. He has real things to work on.

    And I can honestly see Noesi doing very well in Seattle next year. He could look like he pitched almost as well if not better than Pineda just due to pitching in that park and with that seattle defense and this deal will be interpreted by many as a disaster.

  40. RayVT January 14th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Perhaps the Yanks trade AJ & pay his entire 2012 salary and none of 2013. Would that free up salary cap $$?

  41. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Gotta wonder iffa package centered around Montero\Nova woulda netted King Felix. Personally, no way I package Nova. He could turn into something very close to King Felix.

  42. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I would definitely take a flyer on Damon at DH. Why the heck not!

    Hi Ray!!!

    :)

  43. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:51 am
    Faiaz, to tell you the truth, Montero was so solidly implanted in my mind that I never thought beyond Montero. I guess I’d like to re-sign Chavez and give Andruw Jones and Chavez turns DHing.

    ==================================================

    Alex Rodriguez is at least the semi-regular DH at this point.

    And why is nobody on this “home grown”-loving board talking about Eduardo Nunez at third with ARod as the regular DH???

    I assure you the Yankees are at least thinking about it. Nunez has great range and some pop in the bat… And his stretch of regular play at third last year was, I would argue, his best stretch all year last season.

  44. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I don’t think we’re ready to put Arod out to pasture just yet. I’d like to see what happens with the procedure he just had done. A healthy Arod is a thing to behold…

  45. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    - CashmanSUX -

    Whatever happened to GM Steve Phillips? HE makes Cashman look pretty good.

  46. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    “Any thoughts on what other young pitchers the Yankees might have gotten who were better than Pineda without sacrificing more than they did?”
    ============================================

    There is no such trade to be made.

  47. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    RayVT January 14th, 2012 at 11:52 am
    Perhaps the Yanks trade AJ & pay his entire 2012 salary and none of 2013. Would that free up salary cap $$?

    ================================================

    couldn’t imagine anybody even taking Burnett for FREE if they were going to be responsible for half of his remaining contract.

  48. RayVT January 14th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Hi Trisha!

  49. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    - YANKEE TRADER -

    Nolan Ryan is talkin’ like Darvish is money in the bank. The Rangers are talking to Fielder in order to cover all their bases. It also keeps the heat on Darvish to sign.

  50. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 11:53 am
    Gotta wonder iffa package centered around Montero\Nova woulda netted King Felix. Personally, no way I package Nova. He could turn into something very close to King Felix
    =====================================================

    Per Jon Heyman, before pulling the trigger on the Pineda deal, the Yankees made one more hard puch for Felix…

    They offered the Mariners (again, per heyman) any THREE of Montero/Banuelos/Betances/Nova and the Mariners said no.

    Which begs the question, what was their evaluation of Pineda, especially given the difference in contract situations between Pineda and Felix.

  51. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    CB -

    If you can tell me that Jesus Montero is going to be a good catcher and not a DH then I would agree with you – but I think there are enough questions about Montero behind the plate that I’m ok taking the risk. Look, I love Montero’s bat and I hope the Yankees didn’t just trade away Miguel Cabrera – but the Yankees are deep at catcher and as great a bat as Montero might become, it is still easier to find good hitting than good pitching.

    The expectations for Pineda are high because he showed an extreme amount of talent – yes he wore down in the second half, but so did Nova in his first season, this year he will be physically where Nova was last year. He does need to work on secondary stuff – but I trust Larry to help with that.

  52. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    - CURRENT A-ROD FANTASY VALUE AFTER MONTERO TRADE -

    $37 with a Bullet.

  53. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 11:58 am
    - YANKEE TRADER -

    Nolan Ryan is talkin’ like Darvish is money in the bank. The Rangers are talking to Fielder in order to cover all their bases. It also keeps the heat on Darvish to sign.

    ============================================

    The heat is already on Darvish to sign… Would not be the LEAST bit surprised if the Rangers did BOTH. Especially if the Rangers can get Fielder on a six to seven-year deal.

  54. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    “Why would Fielder want to sign a 2 year deal with the Yankees, as a DH, even if he played 1st on a rare occasion, when he could be an everyday 1st baseman with the Nats or with the Rangers if they don’t sign Darvish by this Wednesday.”

    he probably wouldn’t….however if the AAV of their 2 year offer is significantly more than the other long term offers he’s getting then maybe he would. If the Yankees offered him 2/55 and the other offers he’s getting are longer but in the 20 million dollar annual range then that’s 14 million more dollars over the course of those 2 years…..in addition to the crazy advertising money he’d get in the NY and the chance to win a title also……he’d still enter the marketplace again at 29 years old.

    I have no idea if he would do something like this…..but I’d strongly consider making such an offer if I’m the Yankees…….it could transform their team….Prince would be a monster at YS….a serious 50 homer candidate that gets on base too

  55. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    AJ Burnett (2 years 33 mil) for Alex Rios (3 years 38 mil) yes or no?

  56. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Cruz hasn’t been able to stay off the DL in three years. What good will that do NY?

  57. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees look to add payroll if they move Burnett.

  58. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    - CashmanSUX -

    Thanks for that Heyman info on King Felix offer. Gotta wonder how the Mariners walked away from that offer. The Mariners have Lost with King Felix, they can lose without him. Branch Rickey knew what he was talkin’ about.

  59. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    People really need to understand this. The Yankees traded for Pineda as a pathway to get below the salary cap in 2014. That was a huge driver for this deal.
    ———————————-
    CB-
    Totally agree and have been saying this all along. There are so many incentives with the new CBA for the Yankees to be under the 189M threshold in 2014, that no other team, will realize.

    As it is A-Rod, CC, Tex and Jeter if he picks up his 8M option are signed, Cano and possibly Granderson come up for extensions. That could well put the team at close to 120M before the rest of the 40 man roster is figured in for 2014.

  60. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Derek Jeter-ss
    Curtis Granderson-cf
    Robinson Cano-2b
    PRINCE FIELDER-dh
    Alex Rodriguez-3b
    Mark Teixeira-1b
    Shin Soo Choo-rf
    Russell Martin-c
    Brett Gardner-lf

  61. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Not the least of which, Cruz will be 32 years old in July. He’s also going to make around 7 mil this year in arbitration and then it’ll start over again next year.

  62. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Prince and Cano = Manny and Ortiz…..we all saw what a nightmare that was to go through 4 times a night…..and when combined with the rest of the Yankees lineup, their new rotation, and bullpen…….scary stuff.

    Couldn’t go longterm with Prince…..but the Yanks should strongly consider an aggressive short term deal which would make them a potential monster of a club.

    Jeter
    Arod
    Fielder
    Cano
    Granderson
    Teixera
    Swisher
    Martin
    Gardner

    It just transforms the lineup…..Hal will never go for it though

  63. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    This Pineda move had little to do with 2014 as the Yankees were prepared to add 20 million per on King Felix.

  64. SoS January 14th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    What is up fellas!!

    I am amped up this morning about the Stealthy bombs that were dropped last night on us.

    I want to play the devils advocate for a minute and reverse rolls.

    Imagine if we had Peneda for last season and through the minors and decided to trade him for
    a young dh who had only a month experience in the majors? Yes he struggled for the second half of the year but just like OUR SAVIOR HUGHES, he had shown all star potential the first half. He actually looked better than the man that we all wanted in King Felix in that span. Now we look at what was being sent to us in Montero. A catcher that the orginization had no confidence in behind the plate so they brought up a third catcher to do that job and in turn went to the dh role which on this team needs to be open for Alex. A player who like Peneda struggled for half the season but more so being that he also struggled half of last year as well.
    Noesi, a player who had a high era in our pen and was never thought of as more than a 4/5 started. Something we have a litter of in AAA. Some became infatuated with rumors that his fastball was clocked at 97 on the Irabu gun recently. We traded the next Verlander for a 19 year old that from what I hear has much more potential than a 4/5.

    We end up having an abundance of pitching now. 5 pitchers that had less than a 4 era this past year. Not sure we have ever started a season with that before. Able to trade some leftovers for a live bat in return.

    So ask yourself this question. If these guys were not HOMEGROWN and were traded to us for the package Seattle has, taking the bias out of it. Would you be pissed right about now.

    DH for a potential 1 or 2 starter?
    4/5 for potentially much higher ceiling?

    Miss the daily chat folks. Keep on keepin on and roll tide(not a fan of Alabama(longhorn) but its provacative and gets the people going,)

  65. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    “AJ Burnett (2 years 33 mil) for Alex Rios (3 years 38 mil) yes or no?”

    no…Rios is toast

  66. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    To me, the Rangers signing of Fielder would be over-kill. Their offense coupled with that Park does Not need Fielder. That bonehead in RF cost them a World Championship, so they oughtta be lookin’ at a defensive up-grade out there.

  67. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Enough with the Prince Fielder idiocy. He’s not coming to NY and getting Shoo does what? Replace the same numbers that NY is giving up plus the pitching?

  68. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    If the Rangers signed Fielder then it would be in large part because they don’t want to sign Hamilton longterm and would rather Fielder be in there instead of him.

  69. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Sos,

    Great post! I feel we just traded Travis Hafner for CC Sabathia and plan on filling Hafner’s spot with PRINCE FIELDER

  70. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Trader -

    I also agree about the 2014 thing – consider this IF (and it’s a big if) Betances and Banuelos both develop then outside of CC – the Yankee pitching staff – not just the rotation, but the entire pitching staff – is going to be really inexpensive.

    Yankees won’t have to mess around with trying to sign Hamels or Greinke to huge contracts.

    This is what Cashman has wanted for years – what he dreamt of with Hughes, Joba and Kennedy – a young, cost controlled rotation filled with high end talent. Again, assuming Banuelos and Betances make it – which they may not. But even if they don’t…if you assume only one of them does…you still have young talent that can fill that fifth spot (Hughes, Warren, Phelps) for very little money.

  71. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    AJ Burnett (2 years 33 mil) for Alex Rios (3 years 38 mil) yes or no?

    =====================================================

    GOOD!

    GOD!

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  72. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Blake-

    I like your thinking, but Fielder, at his weight, would be taking a huge risk to sign only for two years, not to mention pigeon hole himself as a DH.

    As far as AJ is concerned, it certainly would be nice to know the 10 teams on his list he won’t consider, before making an educated guess as to where he’ll accept a trade. I would only guess right now that he’d go to the Mets, Phillies, Nats and Orioles, so as to not be too far from his home. Look at those teams first as possible trading partners.

  73. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    So here’s hoping Gary Sanchez is the real deal.

  74. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    I think you guys are getting far too jazzed over Pineda. A look at Pineda’s 2nd half ERA should throw some cold water in your face. Pineda has potential, but he aint Tom Seaver at this point.

  75. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
    - CashmanSUX -

    Thanks for that Heyman info on King Felix offer. Gotta wonder how the Mariners walked away from that offer. The Mariners have Lost with King Felix, they can lose without him. Branch Rickey knew what he was talkin’ about.
    =========================================

    There are two primary reasons the Mariners did not make that deal…

    1) They know what everybody should know… Prospects are not sure things. (read: we need to stop treating them like they are on this and every other board on the planet).

    2) The Mariners are LOADED with top SP prospects already, which is at least one of the reasons they were willing to make the Pineda deal.

  76. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Would the Mets do AJ + Gardner for Jason Bay?

    Bay expires before 2014.

  77. RhapsodyInBlue January 14th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    CashmanSux dismissing all suggestions from other posters then throws out the ridiculous trade with Texas for Cruz.

    A real comedian.

  78. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    “I like your thinking, but Fielder, at his weight, would be taking a huge risk to sign only for two years, not to mention pigeon hole himself as a DH.”

    yea I agree….but teams have those concern anyway or else he’d already likely gotten his money. For all the worry about Prince’s weight…..he’s missed 4 games total in the last 4 seasons……what was it Terry Pendelton once said…..”you can’t pull fat”

  79. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
    So here’s hoping Gary Sanchez is the real deal.

    =================================================

    We should all hope ALL the Yankees prospects are the “real deal.”

    But Sanchez is years away and the Yankees already have a very good overall catcher here right now. Sign me up for five more years of what Russell Martin gave us last season right now!

    Why does everybody ignore this guy???

  80. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    If the Rangers signed Fielder then it would be in large part because they don’t want to sign Hamilton longterm and would rather Fielder be in there instead of him.
    ——–

    I’d take a shot on Fielder before Hamilton long term. No doubt about that.

  81. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    “If you can tell me that Jesus Montero is going to be a good catcher and not a DH then I would agree with you – but I think there are enough questions about Montero behind the plate that I’m ok taking the risk. ”

    Chip,

    I’m not an absolutist on baseball. Many moves fall into some shade of grey where it really gets down to trade offs.

    This trade was a classic example of that where it was purely about trade offs.

    This is the kind of trade that you’d read about in economics text books. David Ricardo would have made this trade.

    The assets exchanged really are close to equivalent value. Just different orientations and shapes. It was a move about taking talent, figuring out it’s value and exchanging it to fill respective holes.

    Objectively, I can’t really criticize it in that regard. I wouldn’t have done it because my preferences are different. I do think the Yanks are taking on more risk in the deal. Probably more upside as well. But more risk.

    Quite honestly, in many ways the most interesting aspect of the deal is Campos. I’m really surprised the Yankees got him in this deal. That’s the area where the Yankees could really get back more value than they gave up. Seattle had to put him in the deal I guess to get back the immediate return of Noesi to fill the rotation slot left by Pineda.

    But I do think the issue of Montero being a DH vs. catcher has been overblown. He is going to rake. I don’t care where he’s going to play. Sure I would much preferred him to catch but that’s asking for an ideal world. So even if he DH’d – I think he would add immense value.

    One of the things about this DH debate that gets lost is the specificity of the Yankees roster and business model. They have so many resources that every roster spot is extremely valuable. Every spot in the line up – even more so.

    Having a plus hitting DH is not a trivial issue for the yanks. It’s something they should aspire to because it’s one of the few ways they can continue to improve the team compared to what they have.

    But the opposing side to the argument obviously has real merit as well.

    I don’t like this trade and wouldn’t have made it. But in many ways I think that the yankees did extremely well in making it. Shades of grey.

  82. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Blake – in fairness it’s not like AJ is a hot commodity. If the Yankees are going to trade him it will either be for someone else’s bad contract (Rios, Soriano, Carlos Lee) or they’re going to eat almost all the money and still just get back a minor league filler.

    Now, my preference would be Carlos Lee at 1 year 18 mil, but I’m also trying to think logically about the teams that aren’t on AJ’s NTL and I can’t imagine why he would want to go to Houston.

  83. Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    GB-

    Liked the idea of Billy Butler, but his salary jumps from 3 to 8M this year and a few years past 2014 if I remember correctly.

    If they want a DH for 5M or less will probably get them Pena, Kotchman, Damon.

    Have to go. I’ll check back later.

    I’m afraid the next FA or trade deal will not be the blockbuster some of you are hoping for.

  84. Best To Ever Do It January 14th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    So here’s hoping Gary Sanchez is the real deal.

    ————————————-

    Not with Girardi as the manager.

  85. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Sign me up for five more years of what Russell Martin gave us last season right now!
    ———

    Are you serious? You’d be content with another five years of Martin? Did you not bother to watch the post season? He was putrid.

    Now Martin is a good catcher, there’s no denying that, but he’s nothing to get overly excited about.

  86. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Best To Ever Do It January 14th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
    RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    So here’s hoping Gary Sanchez is the real deal.

    ————————————-

    Not with Girardi as the manager.
    ——

    This isn’t football. Girardi plays the team Cashman gives him.

  87. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Donny –

    I DON’T THINK EVERYONE THINKS PINEDA IS GOING TO BE THIS YEAR’S CY YOUNG!

    Maybe next year’s.

    :)

    Give it a rest. We’re informed as to who he is and jazzed as hell as to who he might become.

    Such is the nature of the game of baseball.

    ***********

    You might want to note that many who feel optimistic about Pineda are also devastated about losing Montero. It’s okay to love them both!

  88. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue January 14th, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    CashmanSux dismissing all suggestions from other posters then throws out the ridiculous trade with Texas for Cruz.

    A real comedian.
    ====================================

    which suggestions did I “dismiss”??? That somebody is going to pick up HALF of Burnett’s remaining salary in a trade??? That Jesus Montero and Ivan Nova was going get King Felix???

    Most trade suggestions on message boards DESERVE to be dismissed.

    Moreover, I proposed NO trade for Cruz… I simply said he’s a guy the Yankees like (fact), that they have previously attempted to trade for at least once (fact), and that IF (and I even added it’s a BIG IF) the Yankees DECIDE to trade for a bat, Cruz is a name you should keep in mind.

    So what exactly is it that you take exception with there? Please be specific.

  89. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Chip,

    as I’ve said before…..I only think the Yankees will trade AJ if it allows then to cut some money. I don’t think trading him to take on someone else’s headache makes any sense for them……

  90. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Chip,

    I’ll also add – I find it difficult to get excited about a deal done to save the Yankees money.

    I understand the issue and the constraints. The new CBA is what it is. But that doesn’t really make me warm and fuzzy about the deal either.

  91. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Fielder has a career .988 OPS against RHP.

  92. SoS January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    If Pineda was a homegrown Yankee. There would be no way in hell any of us would want him dealt.
    A 22 year old that already showed glimpses of Ace like stretches in the MAJORS.
    Strikeout pitcher
    Doesnt walk many
    Intimidating

    Some still to this point did not want Brackman traded or released even though he hadnt done crap yet. Just for the POTENTIAL.

    This man in many eyes was better than Felix the first half of last year.

    .288 avg. with less than 20 homers and alot of K’s in AAA does not guarantee us the next Manny. Hell Melky had a .330 avg in the same league.

    Name the last trade Cash did unloading a minor leaguer that haunted us not that long after?

  93. RhapsodyInBlue January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Do me a favor and hold your breath until you see Cruz in pinstripes.

  94. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    SHIN SOO CHOO

  95. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    CB -

    I hear where you’re coming from and that’s what happens when you have old school trades like this – you can tell it’s fair because you can argue it was a win for either team. Both organizations dealt extremely talented young players. Both organizations dealt from positions of strength and both organizations addressed glaring weaknesses.

    The Yankees will hit. They would have hit with Montero and they’ll hit without him. The pitching was a gaping wound and no one on the free agent market came close to offering what Pineda does for this price. The Mariners on the other hand have a ton of young pitching that’s ready to contribute this year but they just were not able to interest any bats to coming there for the money they had to offer. Now they have Montero, Ackely and Smoak hopefully creating a good middle of the order for the next 5 years.

  96. PhiltheThrill January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Pineda as a 22 year old had an ERA+ of 103. 103. That’s really far from an ACE. Now, why his size and some peripherals indicate he may someday be an ACE, he ain’t now. For example, Joba’s ERA+ as a 22 year old was 171, then he got hurt in Texas.

    I think Montero is a much better bet to be a great hitter than Pineda is to be a great pitcher. What’ more, I’m not even sure Pineda will be a #2 for the Yanks this year.

  97. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Yankees @YankeeSource 2m
    With Montero now on the Mariners, you have to assume they’ll score at least 5 runs next season.

    ouch

  98. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    SHIN SOO CHOO
    ——

    DRUNK DRIVER COMING OFF HORRIBLE SEASON

    YAY!!

  99. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    CB – this wasn’t just about saving the Yankees money. This was about building a formidable rotation for a player that the Yankees may not have had a position for.

  100. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    SHIN SOO CHOO

    THE KOREAN KRUSHER!!!

  101. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    eh I’ll just throw it out there –

    what do you think the Rockies would want for Giambi? He would be a nice DH option.

  102. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    “I think Montero is a much better bet to be a great hitter than Pineda is to be a great pitcher. What’ more, I’m not even sure Pineda will be a #2 for the Yanks this year.”

    Phill,

    Agree. This is how I feel as well.

    I really have questions about the notion that Pineda is ready to be a #2 for the yankees this season.

    I don’t think he is. He’s still raw. People shouldn’t expect him to be a 2 next season and the yankees shouldn’t nominally set up their rotation that way because it will only raise expectations.

    But he is immensely talented. The kind of command he has is very difficult to find in a power pitcher, especially one with that kind of frame. In that regard, he’s a bit reminiscent of CC from the other side.

  103. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Do you waste a DH spot on someone who can do nothing but hit, or do you fill it with someone who can actually play a position from time to time.

    I guess the answer depends on what you already have on your team and what your needs are.

  104. DONNYBROOK January 14th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I believe this trade was about trading Montero while he had added value as a Catcher. Once behind the plate 1 or 2 times a week in the 2012 Season onna regular basis woulda exposed him assa full-time DH, and a subsequent drop in his trade value woulda ensued.

  105. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    “this wasn’t just about saving the Yankees money. This was about building a formidable rotation for a player that the Yankees may not have had a position for.”

    Absolutely. I wasn’t only about money and I didn’t mean to imply that. Money however did set the context for this deal.

    Given the constraints that the financial issues did set, they did well in many ways. But 2014 set the context and informed this deal. It set the conditions for why they decided to make the deal rather than just sign Darvish or even Wilson.

  106. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    The only way this deal makes the Yankees a sure thing to be better in 2012 than they would have been without making the deal is if they sign Prince Fielder. The rotation just got better…..but the offense just got worse and it’s tough to quantify the degree to which each of those happened right now.

    Prince takes away some the age related risk in the lineup that Montero was supposed to counteract.

  107. SoS January 14th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Pitching wins championships!!

    Now that we have possibly 5 pitchers with sub 4 era’s. Can espn do a special on us on having the best rotation in history, oh and a bit more hype than the Phillies got last year.

  108. Pete27 January 14th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    What would else would it take to land Upton if Hughes/Swish were in the package? Hughes’ stock is certainly lower and Swish is a fa, so I’d imagine it would still take a lot, but do you think a deal could be made without including banuelos?

  109. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Have the Yankees touted him as their number 2 starter? I only ask this because I keep seeing references to Pineda as the #2 and I think it’s pretty unfair to Pineda to have overzealous or demanding fans decide that’s what he’s going to be as pennance for losing Montero!

    The kid is 22. He’s got a ton of potential. How about we let him develop into what he will develop into, 1-5?

    Keep remembering that I am still sick over losing Montero. But I also want to be fair to Pineda!

  110. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Jesus is going to make us pay. I’m not talking once or twice, but once Seattle gets in the playoffs and faces us. He’s going to crush Pineda. You heard it here first!

  111. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    If Pineda had 2 seasons under his belt like last season there is no way you could have gotten him for montero alone.

  112. Nick in SF January 14th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    I think Kuroda opens the season as our #2 starter.

    And if Seattle really rushed Pineda so much and he’s still so raw, maybe he starts the year in AAA. A chance to try a different approach. :grin:

  113. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    “What would else would it take to land Upton if Hughes/Swish were in the package”

    A lot….maybe more than the Yankees have to offer now that Montero is gone. The Dbacks are loaded with pitching in the minors and the Yankees don’t have the offense to match up in a deal like that anymore…..highly doubt they’ll trade Upton anytime soon anyway because they are good now

  114. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    In that regard, he’s a bit reminiscent of CC from the other side.
    ——-

    Yes, that’s why I think it could all work out. Hopefully CC can mentor him a bit, as he’s been through it before.

  115. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    SoS January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    If Pineda was a homegrown Yankee. There would be no way in hell any of us would want him dealt.
    A 22 year old that already showed glimpses of Ace like stretches in the MAJORS.

    ====================================================

    AMEN!

  116. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    CB –

    I don’t worry about whether or not Pineda is ready to be the “number 2″ to open the season. The question is whether or not he would be ready for that role come the playoffs. Rotation order doesn’t matter in the regular season – it all gets thrown out the window after the first rain out. In the playoffs – that’s when you need your rotation in order and I think by the end of the season he’ll be that guy.

  117. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Did the Yankees just mirror the Rays before ’08 – when Garza was traded for Delmon Young. Remember – if Delmon Young was a Yankees prospect – the prospect following fan based would have built at least eighty monuments for him w/ generational hype. You just never know. I hope the deal turns out well for the Yanks just like it did for the Rays in ’08. In fact – are the Yankees heading down that road:

    Is Sabathia the Yankees Jamie Shields

    Is Pineda the Garza that they lost and now the potential answer to Price

    Is Nova the Hellickson

    Is Hughes the Davis

    Is Banny the Moore

    Is Betances the Neiman

  118. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Blake,

    The rotation is light years better than 2011 and the lineup is down Posada. All they have to do is find a DH who can outhit Posada. How hard is that?

    They could go with a Carlos Pena/Andruw Jones platoon there.

    Or they can sign PRINCE FIELDER ;)

  119. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Think of how fresh the starting pitching will be at the end of the year… each guy only has to pitch once a week… CC, AJ, HK, PH, FG, MP, IN

    No question a starter or two will be dealt for a bat or two… the Yanks need LH bat and a backup corner IF… but they don’t need guys like Giambi and Damon. Giambi can’t play anywhere and Damon would be the worst OF on the 40-man roster.

    A big deal for a young, studly 3B would only be made with A-Road’s blessing and I don’t see that happening.

    So who to get?

  120. SoS January 14th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    We were one of the best offenses in the league last year with
    -Posada being the dh
    -Alex missing half the season
    -Jete hitting like Girardi
    -Teix morphing into Giambi

    I would venture to say, we will not have to worry about our offense this up coming year. All they have to do is score 1 measly run every game and we go 162 and owe.

  121. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    The only way this deal makes the Yankees a sure thing to be better in 2012 than they would have been without making the deal is if they sign Prince Fielder. The rotation just got better…..but the offense just got worse and it’s tough to quantify the degree to which each of those happened right now.
    ———-

    I don’t think “the offense just got worse.” Montero really didn’t contribute that much in the way of us being the best team in the AL. Perhaps long term our offense has gotten worse, but for 2012 it hasn’t. I think there’s reason to believe A-Rod will be healthy this season and that Tex will work out the kinks in his swing.

  122. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    “And why is nobody on this “home grown”-loving board talking about Eduardo Nunez at third with ARod as the regular DH???”

    ————

    because ARod is a good defensive 3b. Nunez needs to work on his fielding.

    even when he was struggling to hit in the playoffs, Alex played well at third.

  123. Pete27 January 14th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    thanks Blake

  124. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
    SoS January 14th, 2012 at 12:21 pm
    If Pineda was a homegrown Yankee. There would be no way in hell any of us would want him dealt.
    A 22 year old that already showed glimpses of Ace like stretches in the MAJORS.

    ====================================================

    AMEN!
    ———-

    Yeah, Yankee fans would never disown a homegrown pitcher who dominated through May.

    Oh, wait a second.

  125. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    The Yanks really have become the “new Rays” with all that young pitching on the horizon.

    Well, “the new Rays with one of the best offenses in the game”

    oh, and the best bullpen.

  126. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Does Pineda have the toughness to thrive in band box YS? He gives up fly balls adnauseum. What was Cash thinking?

  127. PhiltheThrill January 14th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    CB,

    I didn’t sleep well because of this deal. I think Pineda is the kind of promising pitcher you want in you system, but not the kind you trade big pieces for. We’re assuming all of their risk, and giving them a great hitter. It just makes no sense. I hope Pineda is great, just like I hope Humberto Sanchez, Javy Vazquez, and Jeff Weaver would be when we traded for them. But we never traded a Montero level prospect in any of those deals. If Pineda is anything less than a horse, this deal has a chance to be historically bad.

  128. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    “perhaps long term our offense has gotten worse, but for 2012 it hasn’t.”

    I disagree…..

  129. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Nick, don’t laugh but I actually thought the same thing. As an aside, can you imagine the uproar here if Pineda started in AAA????

    Pete, why would a team want to give up its best hitter for a pitcher who is an unknown commidity at this point and a maybe hitter? I don’t think you’ll see the Dbacks trade Justin Upton, period. And they have pitching.

  130. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Hey – the Yankees could always deal Hughes, Betances and Mason Williams to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez, play him at 3b and make A-Rod the full time DH now.

    Kidding!!!! (mostly)

  131. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
    “perhaps long term our offense has gotten worse, but for 2012 it hasn’t.”

    I disagree…..
    ——

    Will we really miss the four home runs? That Jered Weaver moonshot was great and all, but..

  132. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Yankee Trader January 14th, 2012 at 12:16 pm
    GB-

    Liked the idea of Billy Butler, but his salary jumps from 3 to 8M this year and a few years past 2014 if I remember correctly.

    If they want a DH for 5M or less will probably get them Pena, Kotchman, Damon.

    Have to go. I’ll check back later.

    I’m afraid the next FA or trade deal will not be the blockbuster some of you are hoping for.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    trader, that’s still a little under $40 mil for 4 years. That’s a bargin for that bat.

  133. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    No question this deal has huge “risk/reward” potential.

    It’s somewhat similar to the Granderson deal in that the Yanks gave away three very good prospects. This is more a one-to-one evaluation, but don’t forget about the other two pitchers in the transaction.

  134. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    A year from now, we will be talking about Jesus and his Rookie of the Year season and the disappointment in trading the best hitter of 2012.

  135. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “Does Pineda have the toughness to thrive in band box YS?”

    For me that is ALWAYS the question, no matter the player.

    So we wait and watch.

  136. Best To Ever Do It January 14th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Best To Ever Do It January 14th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
    RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    So here’s hoping Gary Sanchez is the real deal.

    ————————————-

    Not with Girardi as the manager.
    ——

    This isn’t football. Girardi plays the team Cashman gives him.
    —————-

    Joe G was a catcher and likes defensive first catchers.

  137. Pete27 January 14th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Just askin what it would take, points taken.

  138. charlestonchew January 14th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Honestly – Why wouldn’t the Angels be trading parters with their surplus of first-basemen types?

    Maybe the Angels don’t *need* pitching, but that doesn’t mean we can’t package something solid together to lure one of their home-run hitting guys away.

  139. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    PhiltheThrill January 14th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
    CB,

    I didn’t sleep well because of this deal. I think Pineda is the kind of promising pitcher you want in you system, but not the kind you trade big pieces for. We’re assuming all of their risk, and giving them a great hitter. It just makes no sense. I hope Pineda is great, just like I hope Humberto Sanchez, Javy Vazquez, and Jeff Weaver would be when we traded for them. But we never traded a Montero level prospect in any of those deals. If Pineda is anything less than a horse, this deal has a chance to be historically bad.

    *******

    You can flip this the other way – b/c your argument is based on speculation that Montero will be a great hitter based on September – and remember – there are two months you do not take seriously based on future performance – March and September.

  140. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Does Pineda thrive in the glare of the NY media? The rude, obnoxious fans? We knew that Jesus thrived in it. He was bored with AAA. What a mistake to trade him imo.

  141. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    or, they can just lock up PRINCE FIELDER

  142. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Joe G was a catcher and likes defensive first catchers.
    ——-

    So did Cashman confer with Girardi before trading Pineda? Did he have to get Girardi’s blessing?

    Baseball doesn’t really work like that.

  143. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Kev, you really can’t understate what you saw from Montero every time he came to the plate. You could always count on the kid for a hit. This is a kid with enormous power and great consistency. He could come in off the bench and rake.

    I have no reason to believe that was going away.

    I see Pineda as a huge gain. I also see Montero as a huge loss.

  144. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Pineda will be another Jose Contreras because he couldn’t stand the pressure. Oh what a disaster for 2012.

  145. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    ““Does Pineda have the toughness to thrive in band box YS?””

    ————

    CompassRosy gave a great review of Pineda last night – she thinks he’ll thrive in NY.

    Most people i’ve read mention Pineda as very competitive and with great mental makeup, FWIW.

  146. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    “If Pineda is anything less than a horse, this deal has a chance to be historically bad.”

    Yup. That’s pretty much it. The downside risk is immense.

    This deal has the potential to look unbelievably bad in the future. Disastrous.

    And if people only judge pitchers by ERA – in a comparative sense, Noesi is going to look “surprisingly” good next season.

    Which will only make the deal look worse.

    People who are full tilt for this deal now and have diminished Montero because he’s “only a DH” should remember that.

    You don’t get to criticize it in the future if it blows up. And it could blow up enormously.

  147. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    “Will we really miss the four home runs? That Jered Weaver moonshot was great and all, but..”

    that was from 2011 not 2012….he was going to play all year this season.

    The degree to which it’ll hurt this year is tough to say because Montero will be a rookie and he’ll struggle some….but my main point is the the offense over the next 5 years could have just taken a significant hit and it’s tough to say where the replacement for that production will come from with the lineup aging the way it is…..

    they don’t have anything impact offensively that’s close in the minors….they have some good prospects in the lower levels….but nothing at all in the upper levels.

  148. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Pete, I also believed the Yankees wouldn’t ever give up Montero, so you just might see Upton here next season!

    :D

  149. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    that pea-brained dope manager in Boston (Valentine’s take):

    ““Pineda, when I saw him in the first half (last season), he looked unhittable. In the second half, he looked OK,” the Red Sox manager said today before a Jimmy Fund charity event at Jillian’s, near Fenway Park. “I don’t know. (Seattle) saw a lot of him, and they traded him. And

    Kuroda’s a good pitcher — a year older than he was last year, pitching in the American League and not the National League, pitching in not a great pitcher’s ballpark (Yankee Stadium) from a great pitcher’s ballpark (Dodger Stadium). They probably upgraded from (Bartolo) Colon and (Freddy) Garcia. Probably. I don’t know. It seems it.””

  150. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    AJ Burnett, a prospect pitcher and $8 mil to the O’s for Mark Reynolds?

  151. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Imagine the Indians dumping Manny? We just traded away our Manny.

  152. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    Does Pineda thrive in the glare of the NY media? The rude, obnoxious fans? We knew that Jesus thrived in it. He was bored with AAA. What a mistake to trade him imo.

    *******

    He was here for a month. . . . .

  153. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    BD – you expect Bobby V to lavish praise on the Yankees?

  154. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Valentine really is a loser, isn’t he?

  155. CashmanSUX January 14th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    ======================================
    AMEN!
    ———-

    Yeah, Yankee fans would never disown a homegrown pitcher who dominated through May.

    Oh, wait a second.
    =============================================

    Pineda, in his FIRST YEAR in the majors (working exclusively as a starter) pitched 171 innings and allowed 133 HITS!

    Go get me the list of all the 22-year-olds who did that!

    Let me help you out. Phil Hughes and his magical, mystical 89 mph fastball ain’t on the list!

  156. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Chip,

    Franconca would have been more complimentary.

    Girardi would if it were the Sox.

    He didn’t ahve to say he’s afraid or he can’t beat the Yankeees. But he sounds like an absolute moron with what he did say.

  157. SoS January 14th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    I will leave you all with this.

    Look at the bright side. At least we didnt trade Montero for Ubaldo.

    Gb, hope your doing well buddy.

    Good to see some OLD school posters in here.

    Have a good one peoples.

    Pats destroy Broncos.

    Saints win.

    Giants upset Cheese heads

    Texans upset Balt.
    You heard it here first!!

  158. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Jesus predictions for 2012:

    HR 28
    RBI 97
    Avg: 315

  159. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    The risk involved with losing a 22 year old potential bat like Montero’s can be counteracted by adding a 27 year old bat like Fielder’s that’s already proven to be great in the big leagues……there isn’t a bat like Prince’s anywhere on the horizon in free agency and they are super tough to get in trades also. It’s not ideal…..but neither was trading Montero and that’s the choice they made.

    The Yankees were going to have to probably commit 20+ million on the rotation before this deal anyway at some point…….just sayin……

  160. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    BD, I would have actually flipped the read on the two pitchers.

  161. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    what Valentine should have said –

    “eh, we dont need Pineda or Kuroda! We have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz… and….and… Guys help me out here. Who are our 4th and 5th starters?

  162. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Valentine’s ridiculous desire to publicly comment on and diminish the Yankees is a dumb way to approach this rivalry.

    It’s almost amateurish. Just a symptom of Valentine seeing himself as this self-styled baseball genius, master psychologist and strategist.

    The Sox have enough problems internally to worry about. But Valentine wants to be the story.

  163. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Melkmanisinhotlanta,

    I’m not worried about Pineda’s makeup. I trust this Mariner fan who had a front row seat to him last season. He sounds like he has Nova’s moxie with better stuff and a similar eagerness to learn that flows from a positive attitude.

    CompassRosy January 13th, 2012 at 9:05 pm

    I understand why they had to do it but, I will really miss Michael.
    Here’s my post and pix of his debut at Safeco Field last season…

    http://tinyurl.com/3ex8os5

    You REALLY can “hear his grin” when listening on the radio to his post game interviews – he feels his joy for the game completely. He does occasionally talk in 3rd person but, not in a boastful way, Ricky Henderson way – in a very charming, “Pineda, you can get this guy” way.

    Michael Pineda is truly gem of a person and a young pitcher with HUGE potential.
    I truly hope that this trade turns out to be one of those rare “win-win” situations. Because I will have zero issue rooting for Michael, even now that he is a Yankee and I really hope that Jesus lives up to his hype, even though he’ll be trying to crank ‘em out of Safeco as opposed to NYS…

  164. Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    so, within the span of less than 24 hours we’ve decided that the deal is a bust? boy, tough crowd….

    talk about instant analysis.

  165. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    CB -

    Does that mean that if Pineda is good and Montero doesn’t become a good catcher you’re not allowed to say this was a good deal?

    It’s a huge risk/reward deal and of course it could go either way – but that’s how trades are supposed to work. They’re not supposed to be slam dunk wins for one side or the other. The other GM is trying to make his team better too.

    I’m sure if you went to Dave Cameron’s blog over at USS Mariner there would be a ton of fans who are pulling their hair out over this deal from the other side.

  166. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    BD, Valentine probably wet the bed when he heard the news. He had to have known he took on a tough task. At this point it probably feels insurmountable!

    :lol:

  167. Carlo January 14th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    I wonder if ranger fans cried that they just traded manny when they dealt smoak for 3 months of cliff lee only to return to the world series with neither the following year.

  168. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Mark Reynolds? The dude strikes out 3X a game doesn’t he? He also committed 31 errors.

  169. RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    .but my main point is the the offense over the next 5 years could have just taken a significant hit
    ——–

    Yeah, exactly. That’s what I said. I don’t think it’s a big deal in the short term, because we were the best team in the AL last year, with barely any Jesus. In the long term it could have its affects, when Tex/A-Rod really slow down.

    I don’t think it’s fair to expect A-Rod/Tex to be worse this year than they were last year. I think it’s fair to expect they’ll be better.

    I don’t think losing Montero makes us worse than we were in 2011.

  170. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    “The risk involved with losing a 22 year old potential bat like Montero’s can be counteracted by adding a 27 year old bat like Fielder’s that’s already proven to be great in the big leagues……”

    From a baseball standpoint, this would complete the deal and the team. It would make a great deal of sense. It would also be the yankees leveraging their greatest asset – money – to create value on the field.

    But I see no way that it’s going to happen. I really don’t.

    Fielder is right now at the highest value he’ll ever be in his career. Signing a short term deal now is just leaving money on the table. He should take the best guaranteed deal he can get now. And I think that’s what he’ll do.

  171. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Joe, I don’t think many people are calling it a bust, unless I’m not reading the crowd correctly.

    I feel a lot of excitement about getting Pineda.

    I feel pretty devastated to have lost Montero.

    I think you might be seeing a lot of that here.

  172. Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    you think valentine was rough in his answer about the yankees? just wait till he gets asked a question about his own team blowing a game, or a player playing poorly.

  173. G. Love January 14th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    There just has to be another shoe to drop here. Another piece added to the Yankee puzzle.

    For everyone who guarantees that Tex & Swisher will be better I don’t share the same confidence in them because they are both very low IQ players at the plate. I think they are what they are now. They’ll rake lefties and struggle mightily against any RHP who can find the plate.

    If this deal was set up to make room for Prince then Cashman deserves more credit than I can imagine.

    If this deal was set up to improve the rotation & bring in Pena to DH then I’m not sure I’m as thrilled about it.

    There’s another shoe to drop here. The Yankees have too many starters now and they will make a deal for a bat.

    Maybe it’s a 3b. Maybe they sit w/Boras and Prince and tell him to sign w/opt outs after every season like Soriano.

    There needs to another move made. The worst move the Yankees as a team can make is wishing and hoping that Arod will be healthy and in MVP form, Texeira will remember how to hit again, Swisher will be better than ever and Grandy is a lock for 40 HR’s again.

    I thought Montero’s bat mitigated any of the above going wrong, but clearly the Yankees either have other plans to fix the offense or they think luck is going to fix their RF, 1b and turn Arod into Cinderella again.

  174. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    “CB -

    Does that mean that if Pineda is good and Montero doesn’t become a good catcher you’re not allowed to say this was a good deal?”

    ————-

    I think CB is saying that even if Montero doesn’t catch, he’ll be a top hitter. The odds of Montero hitting at an elite level for years are higher than Pineda pitching at an elite level.

    That’s all.

    I have a feeling this trade will work out for both teams.

  175. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    “Yeah, exactly. That’s what I said. I don’t think it’s a big deal in the short term, because we were the best team in the AL last year, with barely any Jesus. In the long term it could have its affects, when Tex/A-Rod really slow down.”

    here is the thing…..I think the best case scenerio with the Yankees offense is good….Arod stays healthy, Granderson continues where he left off last year, Tex is better, Jeter fights off father time another year etc…….

    but the worst case could get ugly…..Arod gets hurt again, Granderson regresses, Jeter looks a year older, Swisher presses with free agency looming, Tex continues to be a nightmare against RHP etc…..when you look at the Yankees lineup….Cano is the only guy I’m pretty certain will be great next year if healthy……that’s a bit concerning for me despite how much I like the new rotation.

  176. Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    trisha, yes, but too many are turning their disappointment of losing montero into hate for pineda, even predicting his demise; some hoping the team does so poorly people are fired. real good fans…..

  177. CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    “Does that mean that if Pineda is good and Montero doesn’t become a good catcher you’re not allowed to say this was a good deal?”

    Not at all. I’m saying sort of the opposite.

    If you really like this deal now but Pineda blows out his elbow (an elbow he’s already had trouble with) and Montero turns out to be a .900 OPS player – you don’t get to cry over spilled milk.

    If you like it now, you’re going to have to like it later on even if Pineda gets injured or takes steps backwards.

    That is just part of being a young pitcher.

    I’m saying you have to accept the risk involved in the deal and not complain about them later if they do manifest themselves.

    That’s all.

  178. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Psychology grad could do an interesting article on the attachment to prospects and what happens when it is taken away from the fan. It is interesting. . . .

  179. blake January 14th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    CB,
    I don’t either….I’m just searching for a possible scenerio that will make me feel better ;)

  180. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    trisha,

    even the Boston media is accepting that this was a good trade for the Yanks.

    funny, they are still arguing with those of us who didn’t want to trade Montero.

    Valentine could have easily said something like “we know the Yankees will be tough, but we have confidence in our guys”

  181. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Remember Hanley Ramerez for Josh Beckett. The sox would do that trade all over again. That’s how I see this one. If Pineda pans out, who cares if montero does too. I expect him to but I would want the dominant pitcher more.

  182. Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    glove, i’m actually wondering if the next move (I think there has to be one) might be aj and some other young pitcher to nats for ryan zimmerman, after the nats sign prince.

  183. Best To Ever Do It January 14th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    RadioKev January 14th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Joe G was a catcher and likes defensive first catchers.
    ——-

    So did Cashman confer with Girardi before trading Pineda? Did he have to get Girardi’s blessing?

    Baseball doesn’t really work like that.

    ————————-

    Blessing no but definitely got his input.

  184. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
    trisha, yes, but too many are turning their disappointment of losing montero into hate for pineda, even predicting his demise; some hoping the team does so poorly people are fired. real good fans…..”

    ——————————————————————————————————-

    Jose Contreras part two at a band box near you.

  185. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    The Yanks have as much young pitching in baseball now as anyone…..now they need to start stockpiling young offense…..sign Soler

  186. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Curt Schilling take on trade. ” You never ever trade 22 year old pitchers who can throw 95-100 and can start. Never! WOW”

  187. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    GLove, tough to know exactly what they’re thinking these days! Only time will tell, hey?

    **************

    Here’s another thing. I know the temptation is great but I don’t think it’s accurate to assess trades on what happens away from the Bronx. Of course that sounds extremely counterintuitive but there is no way to know what would have happened had player X remained with team Y. In other words, what someone does away from a team doesn’t really mean anything. New team, new environment, yada yada yada. (Of course it’s normal to assess trades exactly that way!)

    On the other hand if Montero doesn’t rake in Seattle but Pineda is great in the Bronx, I will never be convinced that Montero wouldn’t have been a phenom for the Yanks.

    This one is still tough to swallow. The only other trade that threw me way off stride for quite a while was Wells being traded away. Same thing. You might not question who you are getting, but you sure as hell question who you are losing.

  188. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Red Sox Met With Ortiz’s Agent
    By Steve Adams [January 14 at 11:49am CST]

    David Ortiz accepted Boston’s arbitration offer last month, and yesterday GM Ben Cherington met with Fern Cuza, Ortiz’s agent, to discuss Ortiz’s 2012 salary, writes Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

    In light of what just happened…..Ortiz may be wishing he hadn’t accepted arbitration.

  189. Vineyard Yankee January 14th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Boston fans probably grumbling, %&$@%$&*&%$%………..DAMN YANKEES ! ! !

    THE EVIL EMPIRE IS BACK ! ! !

    YES ! !

  190. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    Remember Hanley Ramerez for Josh Beckett. The sox would do that trade all over again. That’s how I see this one. If Pineda pans out, who cares if montero does too. I expect him to but I would want the dominant pitcher more.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    OMG, Beckett was a World Series superstar. No comparison to Pineda. Jesus is going to become Manny Ramires and we worry about trading him away for an elbow problem waiting to happen again.

  191. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    CB eluded to this last night.

    But the real pressure on the Yankees might be in finding younger hitter 2,3,4,5 years from now.

    The Yankees may not make a major move aside from resigning Cano and Granderson between now and 2014.

    So… 2015. Money to spend.

    Are there impact bats available as free agents? If not, where do you get them? Their farm is stocked with pitching but will there be position players that are ready to be starters?

    But 2015, especially in the world of the NYY, is ages away.

  192. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    the best thing about Pineda is that he doesn’t walk guys and really didn’t in the minors much either…..he was warts but there aren’t too many guys that can throw 97 and don’t walk hitter either. Love that part

  193. RMS January 14th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    No to signing Carlos Pena. I agree with those who rather have Damon for DH.
    =================================================
    Don’t think Diamondbacks would trade Upton.
    ———————————————————————————
    Yanks ain’t signing Fielder. Too much money and he wants to play 1st base.

  194. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    CB – that’s fair.

    Like I’ve been saying – it’s an extremely exciting trade and I’m sure Cashman and Jack Z both had indigestion last night after making it.

  195. G. Love January 14th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Joe From LI,

    There has to be another move. It was obvious last year that the heart of this order fell apart in dramatic fashion. Expecting close to career year norms out of 3 of the biggest bats in the lineup is just foolish.

    Personally, I would give Prince the deal he wants. Give him 7-8 years and tell him he’ll play 1b a couple of times a week against a tough RHP since Texeira can’t seem to hit above .220 against them and then tell Prince he’ll be the 1b when Tex leaves.

    Basically, fill the role his Dad did here over the rest of his career. Cecil was our DH just Torre would throw him out there at 1b every now and then and then in the playoffs.

    If you were to ask the Yankees who they want at 1b in a post season game in a NL park I’m sure to a man they’d say Fielder over Texeira vs RHP.

    You gotta think Prince wants NY if NY wants him.

    Cashman pulls that move off and the Yankees will have told the Red Sox, Rays, Orioles and Jays to “go home & get your shine box” with the rotation he’s just assembled.

  196. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
    trisha, yes, but too many are turning their disappointment of losing montero into hate for pineda, even predicting his demise; some hoping the team does so poorly people are fired. real good fans…..

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Joe,

    You can never underestimate the stupidity of people when they don’t get their way or are disappoined (even fake disappointment). Many of the same people dogging this trade were the same ones that wanted that butcher moved because he could never be a catcher.

    Me? I never wanted Montero traded and I still don’t like this deal. My hope is that the offense continues to produce at the same rate they have over the last few years…until the best of the offensive players in the minors are ready.

  197. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    “Ortiz may be wishing he hadn’t accepted arbitration.”

    ————–

    can Boston and Oritz mutually agree to decline arbitration? :)

    of course Boston wouldn’t do that knowing where Big Papi would be headed…

    Ortiz will probably get 2/$24M from the Sox – probably a good deal since he could get $16M in arb.

  198. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Fielder has said before that he’d DH to play for the Yankees….I’m pretty sure.

  199. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    I would hate Trumbo for Robertson much more than Montero for Pineda. I hope that’s a BS. rumor.

  200. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Can Tex fake it in RF? he moves ok…..RF at YS is tiny :)

  201. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    “there aren’t too many guys that can throw 97 and don’t walk hitter either.”

    ————–

    with a plus slider and reportedly a ‘presence on the mound’

    he doesnt sound like a head case. he sounds like an intimidating power pitcher.

  202. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Best sign for the Yankee offense is what’s going on in the NBA – if Alex responds as well as Kobe did to the German proceedure the Yankees will be fine :-)

    I don’t see the Yankees signing Prince or Cespedes

    Damon, Matsui, Pena and Vladdy are all possibilities

    I would personally trade for Giambi.

    Then just eat AJ’s contract and deal him for minor league depth.

  203. Yank 97 January 14th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    per Curt Schilling:

    gehrig38
    You never EVER trade 22 yr old P that throw 95-100, are huge, can start..don’t care how good a bat you get

  204. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    G. Love,

    I agree with you….if this was to set up the addition of an impact bat as a side benefit then I’ll like it a lot more. Otherwise…..it’s very risky.

  205. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    “Fielder has said before that he’d DH to play for the Yankees….I’m pretty sure.”

    ————

    and Soriano would ‘set up’ for the Yankees.

    draw up the player options.

    3/$70M with opt outs after each year so Prince can decide when he wants to re-enter free agency to get his big deal.

    it’s unlikely he’d stay for the full deal but that’s ok.

  206. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    G. Love January 14th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Personally, I would give Prince the deal he wants. Give him 7-8 years and tell him he’ll play 1b a couple of times a week against a tough RHP since Texeira can’t seem to hit above .220 against them and then tell Prince he’ll be the 1b when Tex leaves.

    *******

    Nice post. Plus I’d give him an opt-out after 2 years in YS. This way the team can set up for 2014 if need be. 22 million per year for 7 years with an opt-out after 2013.

  207. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    I thought people would be more amenable this morning to the trade…

    1. Hello, Betsy.

    2. Pena’s power is nice, but OH that batting avg is putrid.

    3. The Mariners lost out. They should have had faith in Montero’s potential and got him for Cliff Lee. Imagine having Montero AND Pineda on that team.

    4. What did Valentine say? Love CB’s take on him. Bobby V is such a narc.

  208. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    I think those dismissing Fielder are underestimating what Prince and Cano back to back in the lineup would be…..it would be a nightmare for opposing pitchers. See the big picture Hal!!

  209. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    CB just alluded to something, at least I think he did, that is one of my biggest mantras in baseball. You should not, because you cannot, try to predict the value of a trade on what happens elsewhere. You can only look at what you have gotten in a vacuum of sorts. It used to drive me crazy when people would continue to talk about Johann Santana – good and bad. If he was doing well, you’d get the “I TOLD YOU SO!” posters. When he was doing poorly you got the “I TOLD YOU SO!” posters.

    But what a player does with another team is not automatically transferrable to the Bronx, good or bad. Totally different circumstances out of the Bronx, so no way of knowing what would have happened in in the Bronx.

    How do we accurately assess whether this becomes one of the “worst trades in the history of baseball?” I don’t know the answer to that because it is all in the mind of the beholder.

  210. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Blake,

    I think Hal does…thus the recent meeting with Boras. If it was about chump change like Edwin Jackson (it wasn’t), couldn’t Cashman have handled it alone?

    Cashman brought Boras to Hal.

    We’re getting close.

    Darvish and Texas are the holdup.

  211. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    “G. Love January 14th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Personally, I would give Prince the deal he wants. Give him 7-8 years”

    ————-

    with ARod and Tex’s contracts, there is too much risk in giving another mega-deal.

    If Prince and his big frame wore down or he got hurt, those contracts could cripple the Yankees for years.

    Trust in the young pitching they have and look for shorter term commitments. If a Matt Kemp type player hits the market, you make an exception.

    The yanks can’t have another corner infielder / DH with a monster contract.

  212. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Chip. I said that last night and was criticized. KOBE putting up 40 + a night tells me a lot. He plays a much tougher sport physically on the legs. But all I heard back was Kobe’s 33 and A-Rod’s 36.

  213. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    I agree with Schilling…. which doesn’t happen all that often. It’s a bigger risk for the Mariners because pitchers with elite level arms are a special and rare commodity.

    I hate losing Montero. I’d rather that deal be for Romine and let them keep the kid, but that probably was not an option.

    People harping on Pineda’s second half need to do some homework.

    He had three straight poor starts in mid-July where he gave up 19 ER in 15 2/3 (10.91 ERA).

    In his other 25 starts his ERA was 3.01. In his final 8 starts it was 3.99 which is solid, especially for a rookie.

  214. RMS January 14th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Jesus is going to become Manny Ramires and we worry about trading him away for an elbow problem waiting to happen again.

    ========================================================
    Jesus is going to become Manny? Really? Let’s see what he does for a full year before we anoint him Manny.

  215. Chip January 14th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Blake -

    I don’t think anyone is dismissing Prince because we don’t think he can play. I think people are dismissing Prince because we don’t see it as a realistic option.

  216. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    I’d take Damon in a NYC heartbeat as DH.

    And I don’t care what Schilling has to say. If he played for the Mariners, his tune might be entirely different. They need hitting desperately. They did what they needed to do.

  217. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    bret,

    one time I hope you’re right……I wouldn’t count on it though. I don’t see the Yankees doing it and I’m not sure Prince will agree to it either. I could see him picking the Yankees over the Nats….not sure how involved the Rangers are…..Mariners are probably out and reports are the Cubs are out as well.

    The Yanks could technically sign Prince and still get under 189 by 2014…..especially if they don’t have to do anything else to their pitching staff between now and then.

  218. Yank 97 January 14th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    m,

    At a Jimmy Fund charity event on Saturday morning, Valentine didn’t seem too concerned about New York’s additions of starting pitchers Michael Pineda and Hiroki Kuroda.

    “They’re probably an upgrade from [Bartolo] Colon and [Freddy] Garcia,” Valentine said. “Probably. I don’t know. It seems it.”

    He did talk about the potential flaws for each pitcher.

    “Pineda, when I saw him the first half, he looked unhittable. Second half, he looked OK,” said Valentine. “[The Mariners] saw a lot of him and they traded him.

    “Kuroda is a good pitcher — a year older than he was last year, pitching in the American League and not the National League, pitching in not a great pitcher’s ballpark from a great pitcher’s ballpark.”

    http://blogs.providencejournal.....xHFe4H4JfM

  219. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Coach Brown said that if you cut Kobe open, you might find a machine in there.

    No comment on what he thought you’d find in LeBron. j/k

  220. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Schilling doesn’t know that the Mariners are loaded with pitching in the minors….still have arguably the best pitcher in baseball…..and have tried to win with no offense for years now. This trade was a good one for them IMO…..TBD if it is for the Yankees.

  221. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    YankeeSource Yankees
    A scout: “Pineda is a 6’7″ monster who throws 95+ MPH w. command & 23 years old, getting him for just 1 A prospect is an excellent move.”

  222. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    “the best thing about Pineda is that he doesn’t walk guys”

    Agree. Too much focus on his velocity. He throws very hard – but you can find guys with comparable velocity (albeit slightly lower).

    The Yankees have a comparable pitcher in Betances.

    But what’s extremely difficult to find is a young power pitcher with that kind of frame who already has the control and command Pineda has.

    That is extremely rare.

    Just look at Pineda’s control and command compared to Gio Gonzalez or even Jimenez. No comparison.

    That’s why if you were going to use Montero as a chip you just don’t spend it wildly on a pitcher just because he’s the “best” available at a particular time.. You only trade him for the right guy.

    That’s what the Yankees did here.

    And I’d guess that control was a major part of why they focused on Pineda and agreed to trade Montero for him.

  223. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:15 pm
    Schilling doesn’t know that the Mariners are loaded with pitching in the minors….still have arguably the best pitcher in baseball…..and have tried to win with no offense for years now. This trade was a good one for them IMO…..TBD if it is for the Yankees.

    *********

    Montero HAS to catch for the deal work for them. . . .

  224. G. Love January 14th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    The other great thing about a Prince Fielder signing is it tells Texeira you better start hitting RHP again pal or you’re the next the AJ. Of course having to spend 25 million to motivate your 25 million dollar 1b should never need to happen, but if you look at numbers Tex is in a 4 year decline and isn’t showing signs of coming out of it.

    Prince & CC would be the faces of the Yankees going forward to. NY would LOVE Prince.

    I’ve been partial to chubby guys who could hit the ball far since Englebert almost helped the Bad News Bears win the title against those damn Yankees.

  225. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    ARod/Tex/Prince

    three corner infielders / DH all signed for 6+ years at an AAV of $25M ??

    simply no chance.

  226. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    The Yanks could technically sign Prince and still get under 189 by 2014…..especially if they don’t have to do anything else to their pitching staff between now and then.

    ********

    True, plus an opt-out after 2013 gives PRINCE some flexibility as well. The Yankees would be fine either way, if he plays out 7 years or opts out after 2. Nobody is getting past this lineup in the playoffs with Cano/Prince back-to-back and Alex Rodriguez hitting 5th and Mark Teixeira hitting 6th. It’s murder.

  227. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Chip,

    yea I know….I just think it should be realistic because Prince is pretty much exactly what the Yankee lineup needs and bats like his basically don’t hit the market at his age anymore. The Yankees struggle against RHP…..Prince’s career OPS is almost 1.000 against RHP…..he’d get Robbie tons of fastballs to hit

  228. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “Montero HAS to catch for the deal work for them. .”

    or hit like Edgar Martinez

  229. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Yank97,

    Thanks for that.

    He tells the truth but it looks bad. Even Cash was smart enough to concede the winter to the BoSox last spring.

    Bobby V trying to be ironic on upgrade makes him look like a douche. Maybe he meant that he appreciated Colon and Garcia’s contributions last year?

  230. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Jesus is ready for the big stage as he proved last September in the cauldron of NYC. It doesn’t get better than that for a youngster to demonstrate the hype. We saw that and Jesus provided the reality of what awaits the Mariners: pure hitting gold. I’m sorry but you don’t trade a young superstar for an unproven Pineda. NYY knew that Jesus was a DH, and Jete and Aroid would have to grin and bear that they are in their declining years and let young Jesus flower before our eyes. Most likely, Aroid and Jeter complained that they needed the DH. Typical.

  231. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    People here seem to want to get but not give. I’d still do the Granderson trade. So what if what we gave up does well in the NL west. I’m happy for IPK that he’s doing well out there and I’ll be happy for Montero if he does well as long as Pineda is the real deal he appears to be. And, Campos is now a top 5 prospect in our system. Funny, w/o this trade, all the talk would be what a great move we made getting Kuroda for only 10 mill.

  232. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    would the 2013 team be better with Montero/Hamels…..or Fielder/Pineda?

    the money wouldn’t be significantly different most likely.

  233. hardwired7 January 14th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    The best thing about Bobby V. going to Boston: at least I won’t have to mute the TV during Sunday Night Baseball now.

  234. stuart a January 14th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    jesus is going to hit I am confident about that. he will be the mariners DH. After reading and thinking about the trade it was a good move for the yanks. it will be a even better move if the yanks trade 1 of there excess pitchers for some youth/bat. aj or hughes or garcia or 2 of them for a bat… hughes might get traded since burnett is burnett and garcia has a 1 year deal and he throws junk.

    they need to get younger in the field/dh……….

  235. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    “Jesus is going to become Manny? Really? Let’s see what he does for a full year before we anoint him Manny.”

    Sure. But on the flip side people who had no idea who Pineda was at this time last year are now speaking about him as if he’s an established number 2.

    He’s not. He’s still a project. He really shouldn’t have been in the majors last season. Jack Z just put him in the rotation to generate some buzz on an awful team.

    The whole cartoonish “prospect hugging” argument on this blog is particularly misguided in this trade.

    Pineda is good but he himself is still raw and unfinished. People who don’t acknowledge this are in for disappointment and frustration.

  236. stuart a January 14th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    yanks are not getting fielder. zero chance of that happening. all they need is another slow dh type…..

  237. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    people made the same arguments that they’re making for Prince for Alex, Tex.

    “give them what they want”

    granted most didn’t like giving Alex 10 years… but even if he only got 7-8 years.

    there is tremendous risk these days in this new CBA environment in having multiple long term contracts at $25M/yr or more.

    the Alex and Tex deals are a disadvantage for the Yankees right now and basically….

    that mindset is what led to the Montero trade.

  238. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    It’s amazing we still have Banuelos, Betances, Mason Williams, Sanchez, added Campos AND managed to add Pineda, a potential ace.

    They really did a fantastic job leveraging Montero.

  239. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    I think those dismissing Fielder are underestimating what Prince and Cano back to back in the lineup would be…..it would be a nightmare for opposing pitchers. See the big picture Hal!!

    ———

    I think we all do understand what Fielder could bring to this team.

    The problem is that he doesn’t fit in their business model.

    They just traded their one and only elite young stick for Pineda in order to get under that now infamous 2014 CBA and then they are going to turn around and sign a $20M+ per year DH?

    That just doesn’t add up. It appears they had to twist Hal’s arm out of it’s socket to sign Kuroda so it doesn’t seem likely he would approve yet another enormous expenditure.

    If given a choice, I’d take Damon over Pena for that DH slot. Not sure he’d go for that, though.

  240. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
    “Montero HAS to catch for the deal work for them. .”

    or hit like Edgar Martinez

    **********

    Naahhh – Montero’s value is having that kind of a hitter behind the plate. You can get the DH bats – having one at catcher – that is was potentially makes Montero unique. Only way Seattle did was that they thought he can catch – we will see. . . .

  241. G. Love January 14th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    blake – you just nailed it. The team is better with Fielder/Pineda and they don’t run the risk that Hamels or Cain extend before hitting free agency.

    I don’t think the Yankees are done here.

    If they didn’t make this trade they were going to give Hamels or Cain a 6-7 year 20 million plus a year deal to come here.

    Prince is 27. Maybe, just maybe, the Yankees feel more secure giving those dollars to him. They had no problem giving CC that kind of money at his size. I doubt they are that concerned about Prince.

    The Yankees were going to spend 20 million plus on either Hamels/Cain or Matt Kemp if he hit the market after this season.

    I think Prince is a viable option now that the rotation is loaded.

    The Hal meeting with Boras wasn’t just about Edwin Jackson, was it?….

  242. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    I think one difference in the Montero/Hamels vs Pineda/Fielder thing is the the latter is already an option…..while the former may never be.

    “people made the same arguments that they’re making for Prince for Alex, Tex.”

    well I’m saying give Prince what he wants short term….not for 8-10 years…..but as a fan I admit I don’t care about the payroll or Hal’s bank account. I just want the team to be as good as possible.

  243. charlestonchew January 14th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    This trade may have been a good one and a fair one, but the people who it was the least fair to are Yankees fans. We’ve had Jesus hyped up for years and we’ve been following him obsessively. I remember hearing the hype, so I went to see him at Charleston multiple times. To see him take that entire journey and then to see him pawned off for a young pitcher who, though admittedly very talented, seems quite redundant in an organization replete with young arms is very frustrating.

    Really, we became attached to our young stud hitter and were quite excited to watch him grow. It’s like taking care of an apple tree for 5-6 years, and it has not yet fruited. All of a sudden it’s taken from you and you’re given an orange tree that’s just started to show some fruit. I miss the apple tree, but maybe I’ll start to love the taste of oranges.

  244. jacksquat January 14th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Hey Chad, can you stop posting pics of Montero? Thanks. :(

  245. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    G. Love January 14th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    blake – you just nailed it. The team is better with Fielder/Pineda and they don’t run the risk that Hamels or Cain extend before hitting free agency.

    I don’t think the Yankees are done here.

    If they didn’t make this trade they were going to give Hamels or Cain a 6-7 year 20 million plus a year deal to come here.

    Prince is 27. Maybe, just maybe, the Yankees feel more secure giving those dollars to him. They had no problem giving CC that kind of money at his size. I doubt they are that concerned about Prince.

    The Yankees were going to spend 20 million plus on either Hamels/Cain or Matt Kemp if he hit the market after this season.

    I think Prince is a viable option now that the rotation is loaded.

    The Hal meeting with Boras wasn’t just about Edwin Jackson, was it?….

    *********

    BINGO. Now we’re getting somewhere.

  246. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Don’t expect Prince. It’s not going to happen unless extreme circumstances occur.

    Get ready for Carlos Pena. I can see him getting signed and splitting the DH role with Jones/ a veteran being rested.

    Barring a trade t’s going to be a guy like that. Pena, JD Drew… something like that. A LH hitter who fits the yankees mold of some power and some patience (even if it comes at loss of contact).

    The Yankees are looking forward to 2014. They aren’t going to sign a DH at big money pas that date.

  247. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    I miss Montero already.

    I’m not downing our getting Pineda. I think it’s great.

    But I also am not downplaying the impact of losing Montero. I may be stupid, but I’m not that stupid. I don’t think this has to be a “me up, you down” kind of thing in order to help calm the masses.

    It is what it is. A big win for both teams and also a big loss for both teams.

    Ya vol.

  248. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “It’s amazing we still have Banuelos, Betances, Mason Williams, Sanchez, added Campos AND managed to add Pineda, a potential ace. ”

    ————

    all the pundits that said the Yanks farm system wasn’t very good have egg on their faces and will continue to be pelted with eggs for a few years to come….

    the Red Sox don’t have a single elite prospect.

    the Rangers set themselves up nicely and the Yankees are fitting into that mold as a team with some money to spend AND a great system.

  249. spidanyc January 14th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Yankees calling around for offense, interested in Carlos Pena
    By Mike Axisa
    Via Jon Heyman, the Yankees are calling around in search of help on offense, and they have some interest in Carlos Pena. The Michael Pineda and Hiroki Kuroda acquisitions shored up the rotation in a big way last night, but they did lose their starting DH in the process.

    Remember, the Yankees did claim Pena off waivers last August, but were unable to work out a trade with the Cubs. Feel free to speculate about DH options — Pena, Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, etc. — but I don’t think this is the most pressing issue right now. They have plenty of offense plus a few in-house candidates (namely a rotating DH), so they can afford to be patient. It’s always easy to land a DH type at the trade deadline if needed.

  250. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    jacksquat, I thought the same thing. It’s torture to have to look at those pictures.

  251. EA January 14th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “would the 2013 team be better with Montero/Hamels…..or Fielder/Pineda? ”

    Montero/Hamels for me and it’s not particularly close for me IMO only because there is far less risk – injury and performance.

    Hamels is an elite LEFT-HANDED ace, WS/postseason/big market experience. No real injury history, still in his late 20s when he signs. No questions on his elbow or if he can develop secondary stuff or handle a small ballpark, etc. Now, I like Pineda and think he’ll be fine, but there is far more risk with him than Hamels.

    Fielder is a monster, but Montero has the potential to be as well. Also younger, cost controlled, and doesn’t have the weight issue.

    The risk of Pineda vs. Hamels is more significant than the one between Fielder and Montero.

    But remember – it is also assumption that Hamels reaches FA, which is 50/50 at best. Also, the assumption is that we are getting Fielder, which doesn’t even seem likely.

  252. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “You can get the DH bats – ”

    you can’t get DH bats like Edgar Martinez…..or like what Montero could be….

  253. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    charlestonchew January 14th, 2012 at 1:24 pm
    This trade may have been a good one and a fair one, but the people who it was the least fair to are Yankees fans. We’ve had Jesus hyped up for years and we’ve been following him obsessively. I remember hearing the hype, so I went to see him at Charleston multiple times. To see him take that entire journey and then to see him pawned off for a young pitcher who, though admittedly very talented, seems quite redundant in an organization replete with young arms is very frustrating.

    Really, we became attached to our young stud hitter and were quite excited to watch him grow. It’s like taking care of an apple tree for 5-6 years, and it has not yet fruited. All of a sudden it’s taken from you and you’re given an orange tree that’s just started to show some fruit. I miss the apple tree, but maybe I’ll start to love the taste of oranges.

    *********

    Sorry dude – that is on you. Never get too attached to prospects – and it is the team that matters – not the individual. You want to follow an individual sport – go watch golf, tennis (not doubles), and to some extent – the NBA sometimes.

  254. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    “Get ready for Carlos Pena. I can see him getting signed and splitting the DH role with Jones/ a veteran being rested. ”

    ————

    as bad as Pena was last year, he had a 900 OPS against righties.

    insert NYS. Pena’s fly outs last year might be HR.

    Pena will be fine on a 1yr deal paired with Andruw who sported a 923 OPS against lefties.

    1 year deals!! what a concept :)

  255. Melkmanisinhotlanta January 14th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Charles, you hit the nail on the head. Pineda is unproven but with Jesus we know he’s going to blossom. Jesus is going to remind us of Cash’s error in judgement on a daily basis.

  256. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “I think one difference in the Montero/Hamels vs Pineda/Fielder thing is the the latter is already an option…..while the former may never be.”

    This makes sense.

    But the overall context here is that the Yankees want to decrease their pay role.

    So while the two moves are equivalent, I don’t know if the total spend fits with where they want to go.

    The “old” yankees before the latest CBA may have signed Fielder. I don’t see it now at all.

  257. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “Get ready for Carlos Pena. I can see him getting signed and splitting the DH role with Jones/ a veteran being rested.”

    this is the most likely thing I guess…..I’m however not sure if it makes the Yankees any better than pre-trade and that’s my issue with the whole thing. If you were going to do a trade like this then IMO it needs to clearly make the team better or lead to something that’s clearly going to make the team better.

  258. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Fielder can get much more from other teams than I’m willing to give him. :P

    Somehow I think the Rangers leverage their future and get him. Who know how long their window stays open? Angels and Yankees improved themselves.

  259. RMS January 14th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Bobby V trying to be ironic on upgrade makes him look like a douche.

    =======================================
    That’s Bobby V and he is also very abrasive. A Terry Francona, gentleman, he is not.

  260. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    CB,

    but if they had 20+ million earmarked for Hamels or Cain ….and now don’t have to spend it?? I think they could still Fielder and still theoretically get under 189….IF this trade means they don’t have to touch their rotation at all over the next 2 years. I’m not expecting Fielder at all…..I just think he makes so much sense now that Montero is gone

  261. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    “But I also am not downplaying the impact of losing Montero.”

    ————–

    I don’t know that anybody is.

    it’s a massive loss and it hurts. seeing Montero make all-star teams in Seattle is going to hurt.

    but the majority out there still sees this as a good deal for NY and even if it’s a “win win” the Yankees are going to be a team to be reckoned with.

    the Yankees with one of the top cores of young pitching in all of baseball???

    now that’s scary.

  262. charlestonchew January 14th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Stoneburner –

    I wish I could say that I agree with you in reality. I certainly agree in theory, but there is no doubt that fans get attached to certain players. That’s the nature of the game. I loved Jesus and was so excited to see him rake in our lineup. He was so hyped up for so long and labeled “untouchable.” it is easy to understand why a fan could be upset about this trade (but also excited, of course).

    I think my point is that we’re all a little angry and going through a little mourning. Once Pineda gets out there and starts to show us how nasty his stuff is, I think we’ll feel a little differently. Maybe Mo and DRob will teach him how to throw a fastball that cuts a little bit. Then, he’s a different pitcher altogether.

  263. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    “Somehow I think the Rangers leverage their future and get him. Who know how long their window stays open?”

    ————

    Rangers have a ton of young talent. I think we’ll be seeing them compete for a while.

    How Feliz does in the starting rotation may be more important than any free agent signing.

  264. Betsy January 14th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Hi M!

    I get the disappointment that Montero was traded, but I don’t get criticizing Pineda. I’m sure Cashman was well aware when he traded for him that the kid is still very, very young and is most likely not ready to be great just yet. The idea that this could be historically bad is silly – we can’t assume Pineda will be very good, but we have to assume Montero is going to be Mike Piazza? I also do not believe in any way that this deal was made mostly or even in large part for $$ – IMO, Cashman loves Pineda, loves pitching and clearly does not think Montero will catch. Why is it Montero has no flaws while Pineda is full of them?

  265. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    “Pena will be fine on a 1yr deal paired with Andruw who sported a 923 OPS against lefties.

    1 year deals!! what a concept”

    This is why I think it will happen. Together, through that platoon, the Yankees could get .900 OPS production from the DH spot for what – 5M or so total on a 1 year term.

    Like Kuroda it almost makes too much sense not to happen given alternatives.

    In retrospect while there was a lot of focus on Beltran the guy who signed early who may have really turned out to be a fantastic fit for the Yanks was Jim Thome. Always thought he would be great on the Yanks and was hoping they would make a run at him at some point over the past few seasons. Especially compared to this whole “rotating DH”/ piecemeal DH they’ve been using.

  266. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    CB,

    but if they had 20+ million earmarked for Hamels or Cain ….and now don’t have to spend it?? I think they could still Fielder and still theoretically get under 189

    *******

    BINGO.

    CB, where did Hamels $$$ disappear to all of a sudden?

  267. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    BD, it’s a good deal for the Yanks and it’s a bad deal for the Yanks. If you get my drift.

    Losing Boomer sucked. Getting Clemens was good (so they say).

    It really can be both, you know.

    I’ll leave it at that.

  268. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Jones and Pena are K machines and despite their ability to post a .900 OPS in the regular season as a platoon they could very easily disappear in the playoffs against upper echelon pitching.

  269. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    “would the 2013 team be better with Montero/Hamels…..or Fielder/Pineda? ”

    ————

    this sounds like Pete Abe deciding what toppings to add to his meat lovers pizza

    they already have the meat. but will they be better off adding mushrooms, peppers, or something else?

    The Red Sox are still trying to find enough cheese to cover the damn thing.

  270. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    ‘this why I think it will happen. Together, through that platoon, the Yankees could get .900 OPS production from the DH spot for what – 5M or so total on a 1 year term. ”

    this is true….that would be ok…..but what’s it a stopgap for is a question……theyd have the same problem next year and no internal solution on the horizon now

  271. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    “You can get the DH bats – ”

    you can’t get DH bats like Edgar Martinez…..or like what Montero could be….

    ***********

    Billy Butler, David Ortiz – there are bats that have come along with that DH spot – but what makes Montero unique is that he can possibly play catcher – the bat ALONE is not what makes Montero possibly generational – it is the possibility of playing catcher. There are better bats out there – Harper for example – and he could not stick at catcher. It is the position plus the bat – just the bat alone – Montero’s value goes down. . . .

  272. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Betsy,

    Cashman is definitely taking a leap of faith here. But it doesn’t feel like doomsday to me.

    I doubt there will be any Ruthian curse in this case. (fingers X’d. ;) )

  273. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Bets, I think getting Pineda was huge. I am very excited about having him as one of our pitchers.

    I hate that we lost Montero in the process. I think the Mariners lost someone very valuable and gained someone very valuable. And vice versa.

  274. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    “but if they had 20+ million earmarked for Hamels or Cain ….and now don’t have to spend it??”

    I’d guess part of the attraction in trading for Pineda is that it could save them from having to go after Hamels.

    In getting Pineda the Yanks have acquired a pitcher who could turn out to be a front end guy if things work out.

    At the very least it gives them a year to see where things are.

    But now, if Pineda progresses I could see them passing on Hamels. I think it would be a mistake – but I think that’s what they’d do.

    This move sets them up to decrease their spend. Doesn’t guarantee it – but gives them that potential option. If Pineda and Manny progress they can bank the money and pass on Hamels. I’d guess that’s how they’ve thought this through. Not a guarantee but it gives them avenues for saving money.

  275. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Get Johnny Damon back and be happy.

    :)

  276. EA January 14th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    BobKlap Bob Klapisch

    Brian Cashman stressed, “huge risk” in deal w/Mariners. “I gave up a ton (for Pineda). To me, Montero is Mike PIazza. He’s Miguel Cabrera.”
    14 hours ago

  277. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    27 year old bats like Prince dont hit the market anymore…..and his market isn’t what Boras hoped it would be……when the Yankees had their own 22 year old potential middle of the order bat then he wasn’t needed…..they dont now though

  278. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Hamels money may very well go to the same place money ear marked for Cliff Lee went.

    The bank.

  279. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    “Brian Cashman stressed, “huge risk” in deal w/Mariners. “I gave up a ton (for Pineda). To me, Montero is Mike PIazza. He’s Miguel Cabrera.”

    Thanks Brian. I needed to hear that.

    :(

  280. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    They can sign Prince and still stay under in 2014.

  281. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Unless the Yankees do something stupid like signing Fielder, they’ll have their payroll under the tax limit by a fairly healthy amount. Before dropping new contracts for Cano, Nova, Gardner, Granderson, Swisher and Martin, NYYs will lop $56 mil off of the payroll. That should come to about $35-$40 mil max in increases.

  282. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    People have consistently diminished Montero’s value because he’s “only a DH.”

    And now they expect the yankees to pay 25M/ yr on a player who would be “only a DH.”

  283. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    CB,

    like you said earlier…..if this deal was made to save money….then I can’t get too excited…..if it was made to improve the club…..then we’ll find out I guess.

  284. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Montero will have tremendous value regardless whether he’s a catcher or not. Where would the Red Sox have been the last decade without Ortiz?

    Unlike the Yanks’ situation, though, it appears the Mariners are going to give Montero every chance to be a starting catcher.

    Don’t be surprised if he sticks behind the plate (at least for a few years if his body can handle it). His abilities behind the plate have been vastly overblown.

  285. Eroc January 14th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    The GM is the one comparing Montero to Piazza/Cabrera even after the deal was said the deal was a huge risk… so it’s hard to blame the fans for doing the same

  286. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    “27 year old bats like Prince dont hit the market anymore”

    ————

    but I think they will down the road.

    more and more 21-22 year old players are seeing the majors these days and will be looking to really cash in at 27-28 when they are available to hit the open market.

    now, if Prince played a middle infield position or CF…. that’s a different story.

  287. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    “Hey, we won’t have to face Montero anymore, especially in (Yankee Stadium),” Saltalamacchia said, referring to young slugger Jesus Montero, the prized prospect headed to Seattle.

  288. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    “Hamels money may very well go to the same place money ear marked for Cliff Lee went.

    The bank.”

    errrr. I realize the value of a DH…..which is why I didn’t want to trade Montero….and why I’d give Prince 25 million per for a couple of years if he’d accept it.

  289. hardwired7 January 14th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Meanwhile, has Cespedes even made contact yet in the DR? Too bad you can’t bench press a breaking ball.

  290. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Here is what I’m trying to figure out…..if Cashman really believes that Montero is Miguel Cabrera….then how can he trade that and replace it with Carlos Pena and think that makes the team better?

  291. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Prince Fielder has to ask himself.

    Do I want 28 million per year from the Nats or 22 from the Yankees? Yankees have to be steadfast in keeping the outlay down to a minimum of course.

  292. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    “Montero will have tremendous value regardless whether he’s a catcher or not. Where would the Red Sox have been the last decade without Ortiz?”

    ————-

    agreed.

    but Ortiz was the most feared hitter in baseball back when he was drinking his “protein shakes”

    Montero COULD be an MVP like Ortiz or Frank Thomas was.

    The likelihood that he’ll be a great hitter is good, though. Just can’t anoint him as the best hitter in baseball yet.

  293. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    trisha,

    Hoping that Pineda will make an impact against the Sox. Then it would be a fair trade off. :P

  294. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    People have consistently diminished Montero’s value because he’s “only a DH.”

    And now they expect the yankees to pay 25M/ yr on a player who would be “only a DH.”

    —–

    Oh, the irony.

  295. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    “if Cashman really believes that Montero is Miguel Cabrera….then how can he trade that and replace it with Carlos Pena and think that makes the team better?”

    —————

    because he must think Pineda is Josh Johnson.

    because he thought the rotation was the biggest need?

  296. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    BD,

    I can’t think of anyone that’s as good a hitter as Prince is that will hit the FA market in the next 3 years….can’t think of anyone really close for that matter. Offense is the premium commodity now almost.

  297. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Blake,

    True, nobody of Prince’s caliber on the radar for the next 3 years – not with Kemp gone.

  298. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    “BD,

    I can’t think of anyone that’s as good a hitter as Prince is that will hit the FA market in the next 3 years….can’t think of anyone really close for that matter. Offense is the premium commodity now almost.”

    ————

    I agree.

    But I don’t think the Yankees will be signing anyone like that for at least 3 years (until after 2014)

    The real issue is what they do starting in 2015.

  299. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    2015?

  300. Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    Montero will have tremendous value regardless whether he’s a catcher or not. Where would the Red Sox have been the last decade without Ortiz?

    Unlike the Yanks’ situation, though, it appears the Mariners are going to give Montero every chance to be a starting catcher.

    **********

    Naaaah – it is why the Yanks kept him at catcher and the Mariners will do everything they can to have him catch – his value increases greatly if you can have him catch and hit – it is a bat at a position very few have.

    The value is not David Ortiz at DH – it is David Ortiz at catcher – thus freeing up the DH for another hitter. . . .

  301. Eroc January 14th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    “Do I want 28 million per year from the Nats or 22 from the Yankees? Yankees have to be steadfast in keeping the outlay down to a minimum of course.”

    From his perspective, whichever deal offers him the most long-term security combined with the option to opt out.

    We could probably give him a chance to opt out after the 1st year if he wants, a la Soriano. Teams like the Nats/Rangers probably want a little more stability and probably would only put the opt out in after year 3 or so.

  302. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    “because he thought the rotation was the biggest need?”

    problem is that they have much more pitching help close in the minors and there is much more pitching help on both the trade markets and in free agency than their is elite offense……

  303. CB January 14th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Either the DH spot has value – in which case it made sense to keep Montero and DH him there.

    Or it doesn’t.

    If the DH spot is really this paltry spot on the team where it would be a “waste” to keep a player like Montero (one who is cost controlled to boot) then it makes zero sense to allocate 25M to the DH spot to sign Fielder.

    It’s totally nonsensical.

  304. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Eroc,

    I would give him an opt-out after 2 years.

    2 rings later. It’s a good problem to have.

    This team needs to kick it up a notch to the next level.

    Prince completes the team.

  305. comet January 14th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Hey Betsy good to see here again. Missed you!

    comet!

  306. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Tex – 2016
    Cano – we figure he resigns through 2019
    Jeter – 2014
    ARod – 2017
    Granderson – 2013 – resigns for another 4-5?

    Prince just doesn’t fit in with NY.

    A corner OF does.

  307. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    elite offense is quickly becoming the most premium commodity in baseball…..especially guys under 30. You can’t find them……it’s easier to find a good pitcher.

  308. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    “Montero will have tremendous value regardless whether he’s a catcher or not. Where would the Red Sox have been the last decade without Ortiz?”

    ————-

    agreed.

    but Ortiz was the most feared hitter in baseball back when he was drinking his “protein shakes”

    Montero COULD be an MVP like Ortiz or Frank Thomas was.

    The likelihood that he’ll be a great hitter is good, though. Just can’t anoint him as the best hitter in baseball yet.

    ———

    Not trying to label Montero as such but Ortiz was the most obvious example given his production from the DH slot and the thorn he’s been in the Yanks’ side for a decade now.

    CB said it best. Those who downplayed Montero’s value as “just a DH” sound like idiots now that they advocating signing a $20M+ DH in Fielder.

  309. Eroc January 14th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Their best move is probably combining Hughes/Gardner + to get a young OFer.

  310. Pat M. January 14th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Yanks are a better club today than they were yesterday……..They can go into any city and the pitching match ups will be for the most part in their favor……They have stockpiled the most valuable commodity in the game, young pitching……They have trading clout for years to come when a desired player comes on the market they have a shot in obtaining him……..And they still have their 130 million dollars that didn’t cross the Pacific for a lesser pitcher…….

  311. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    A corner OF does but now that Kemp is gone they have to trade for one which can take time. Fortunately, the Yankees are still stacked with prospects and major league players they can use to trade for cheap long term solutions in LF and RF…until Mason Williams and Jorge Soler are ready ;)

  312. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    blake,

    I agree with you. I think signing Kuroda was enough.

    But we were discussing before the odds of both Banuelos and Betances becoming #1 or even #2 starters in NY.

    the odds of the Yankees having a very good cost controlled rotation went up a good amount.

    it really does look like a ‘win win’ for both teams.

  313. Tar January 14th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    “Really, we became attached to our young stud hitter and were quite excited to watch him grow. It’s like taking care of an apple tree for 5-6 years, and it has not yet fruited. All of a sudden it’s taken from you and you’re given an orange tree that’s just started to show some fruit. I miss the apple tree, but maybe I’ll start to love the taste of oranges.”

    Yeah that sums it up for me too, nice post.

    Blake

    I need to get my mind of this depressing baseball stuff, don’t we have some BB to watch. :D

  314. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    “Yanks are a better club today than they were yesterday…”

    I hope so….a lot depends on what kind of years Montero and Pineda have next year though……Kuroda does help but they could have gotten him independent of the trade.

  315. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    It would be ridiculous to pay Fielder big money to DH. I get that he makes the team better, but even if we didn’t have Tex he wouldn’t be our 1B. That old dude who just signed with the Angels would be.

  316. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Tar,

    yes in 6 minutes!

  317. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Eroc January 14th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Their best move is probably combining Hughes/Gardner + to get a young OFer.

    ********

    I agree that shaves 6 million right there if they can acquire someone cheap. Anybody in mind?

  318. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Stoneburner January 14th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    Montero will have tremendous value regardless whether he’s a catcher or not. Where would the Red Sox have been the last decade without Ortiz?

    Unlike the Yanks’ situation, though, it appears the Mariners are going to give Montero every chance to be a starting catcher.

    **********

    Naaaah – it is why the Yanks kept him at catcher and the Mariners will do everything they can to have him catch – his value increases greatly if you can have him catch and hit – it is a bat at a position very few have.

    The value is not David Ortiz at DH – it is David Ortiz at catcher – thus freeing up the DH for another hitter. . . .

    ————

    Of course Montero’s value is increased if he sticks behind the plate. I’m not arguing that point.

    But he’s still going to have tremendous value if he’s “only a DH.”

    The DH is still a major source of offensive production on AL teams. They tend to be middle of the order hitters who are greatly relied upon to produce big offensive numbers.

    That in itself has tremendous value.

  319. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    GF,

    no doubt.

    I agree with that – Montero will be an asset at C or DH.

    If Montero becomes an average MLB catcher and hits like we think he will, it will be very hard for the Mariners to lose out on this deal.

    The Yankees traded Montero as a DH who might be able to catch a little bit and I believe they got good value for that.

  320. m January 14th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Pat M.

    Our pitching problems just flew out the window. The staff really performed well last season. Should be even better this year.

  321. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    mel, how long have you known me? Have I seemed to be someone who ever stays miles back in a funeral procession about anything? It takes something very monumental to rattle me when it comes to the Yankees. Three words: I adjust well. To more: And quickly.

    In case it hasn’t come through, I am very psyched about having Pineda. I am all about pitching and defense. The long ball has never caused me to swoon.

    So for me to still be trying to get some kind of equilibrium on losing Montero, well just know that he obviously made one hell of an indelible impression on me. That doesn’t happen too often.

  322. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    “It’s overwhelming to me that he could get that kid,” one scout said, just hearing about the trade for the first time. “I know Seattle’s got a lot of young pitching, but there’s young pitching and there’s this kid. He’s a monster.”

  323. blake January 14th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 36

    Talent evaluator on Jorge Vazquez, NYY DH candidate: “He doesn’t have a position, but he can flat-out rake. He just mashes.”

    unfortunately he swings and misses the ball a lot too

  324. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    NYYs have a corner outfielder right now and Swisher does just fine for what the Yankees need. They don’t need a $20 mil+ right fielder. Same with Granderson. Both are plenty good enough over the next 3 or 4 years.

  325. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “To more: And quickly”

    Ha ha ha that of course should have read “two more”. But if you read on, you can see that I am still rattled!

    :)

  326. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    And why sign Pena when we already have his clone in Jorge Vasquez down on the farm.

  327. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    ““I know Seattle’s got a lot of young pitching, but there’s young pitching and there’s this kid. He’s a monster.””

    ———-

    this is what I can’t get over.

    everywhere you look, people are saying the Yankees made a great trade.

    Losing Montero is painful. very painful.

    but it’s exciting to think the Yankees just got themselves a guy who can be a shutdown #1 starter.

    you can’t get a guy like Pineda without Montero. the case for keeping Montero and the B’s is a good one.

    but the Yanks didn’t trade Montero for Garza. They got a guy that scouts and execs seem to be drooling over.

  328. Ys Guy January 14th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    WOW! I’m still buzzing about yesterday! I can’t wait to see pineda on the mound for us. i think i’ve seen him 3x, i remember tex hitting a homer off him, i remember sterling and waldman gushing about him, now i can t wait to see him in pinstripes!

  329. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Well it’s been one heck of a week for me. Selig gets extended and Montero gets traded.

    BOOOOO!!!!!

    I’m sure a Pats loss could bring some temporary relief.

    :)

  330. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Ys Guy,

    Me too! Pineda is a monster. That ball just pops into the catcher’s glove. I’d love to see what he could do with Martin calling him and controlling the running game and the bullpen backing him up. Plus he has Nova who is a fellow DR guy going through the same experience and having already handled the pressure.

  331. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    “NYYs have a corner outfielder right now and Swisher does just fine for what the Yankees need.”

    ———–

    GB,

    It bugs me that so many people treat Swisher like a piece of trash on here. I really like the guy and he loves playing for the Yankees.

    I never discount the guys who love wearing pinstripes and love being here.

    Oh, and Swisher has about an .855 OPS since coming to NY.

  332. comet January 14th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    AGREE!!!!

    CB January 14th, 2012 at 12:42 pm
    “If Pineda is anything less than a horse, this deal has a chance to be historically bad.”

    Yup. That’s pretty much it. The downside risk is immense.

    This deal has the potential to look unbelievably bad in the future. Disastrous.

    And if people only judge pitchers by ERA – in a comparative sense, Noesi is going to look “surprisingly” good next season.

    Which will only make the deal look worse.

    People who are full tilt for this deal now and have diminished Montero because he’s “only a DH” should remember that.

    You don’t get to criticize it in the future if it blows up. And it could blow up enormously.

  333. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    “Rangers president Nolan Ryan acknowledged that the signing of Yu Darvish will move one of their current starters to the bullpen.”

    ————

    the rest of the offseason hinges on what happens with Yu

  334. Hassey January 14th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    I hope the Yanks throw 11 straight shutouts in next year’s playoffs (or 12), and they my very well be able to do it. The bad news is, they may have to do just that b/c their playoff offense is now gonna be no different than it has been since ’02. I know the scouts and execs know more than I do, so if they think the Yanks won this deal, I’ll pray that they are right. But I personally thinkk the Yanks should have done nothing this winter, and any regulat hitter has the ability to impact 120 more games than even Koufax

  335. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    the Zimmerman thing is interesting…..he’s a FA after 2013 and the Nats best prospect now (besides Harper) is a 3B (Rendon)…….whether they dealt him would obviously depend on the offer, whether they think they’ll sign him longterm, and how close they feel they are to winning now…..the Gio deal suggests they think they are close so I don’t know.

  336. comet January 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Hello Trisha, GB and Pat M.

  337. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Is it just me, or isn’t getting Kuroda not more important for one year that no one here is talking about it. Great move for one year at 10 mill. in my book.

  338. Tar January 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    “Either the DH spot has value – in which case it made sense to keep Montero and DH him there.”

    CB

    You mentioned how important roster spots are especially for the Yankees.

    Doesn’t Montero as a DH “ONLY” clog up an additional roster spot by necessitating a BU catcher? Doesn’t this also have the effect of devaluing Montero and the DH spot as it concerns the Yankees?

    If he can’t catch at the MLB level (i’m not saying that this is true) I guess ( not really ) I can see why the Yankees made the trade. If he was truly a BU catcher/DH and with that bat (Wow) I just can’t see them trading him.

  339. yankee21 January 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Bottom line for me is young premium bats are much harder to come by than potentially really good pitchers. There is more risk of downside for NY than SEA. NY traded an asset in which they have few of (a young impact bat) for an asset in which they have many of (young, good upside pitchers) in the minor leagues.

    Could it work out, of course, but I believe this trade will likely go down as one the Yankees will regret for years to come.

    I will be shocked if Montero is not a perenial 30 HR/120 RBI machine once he gets acclimated. Great trade for SEA.

  340. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    I like Swisher….just don’t know if I’d want to get involved with a new contract for him.

  341. Patrick January 14th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    I’m in the CB camp on this trade. Pineda is a good pitcher and has a chance to be great but I just don’t like giving up Montero. TINSTAAPP – there is no such thing as a pitching prospect. I know Pineda isn’t exactly a prospect anymore but the same idea holds. He has a lot higher chance of busting than Montero. And I think Montero’s ceiling is higher – he really does have a chance to become a Manny or Cabrera type of hitter.

    I do like Pineda and I think this is the type of deal you evaluate 2 or more years down the road. Pineda very easily could be the 4th or 5th best pitcher on the Yankees next season, not exactly the #2 you are looking for. I could see him throwing a >4 era, especially with the change in stadium. He’s still a 2 pitch guy, he needs to develop. I just don’t like trading a guy like Montero for someone that still needs to develop.

    Swapping Noesi and Campos, I like that. Noesi just never had a spot on this team, despite probably being better than everyone in the rotation but Sabathia. The Yankees mismanaged him very badly last season. I’m glad he will get a chance in Seattle, he will put up good numbers there. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if on the surface his numbers look better than Pineda’s in 2012.

    Signing Kuroda, love it. Ideally I would have liked to see the Yankees sign him then wait until Cain / Hamels (especially Hamels) next year. But maybe the payroll thing is part of the motivation for the Pineda deal.

  342. BTX January 14th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Seattle fans think THEY got hosed and they gave up one of the best young pitchers in baseball for a guy with no position. Most are distraught about losing Campos as well. They thought they should have gotten a better bat and thought that SD/OAK got more for Latos/Gonzalez which they thought was absurd.

    That’s when you know this is a good trade – both sides feel as though they are the ones who lost the trade.

  343. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Swisher is indeed very unappreciated on this club.

    He’s not Jose Bautista but who is?

    For the money they paying him, he’s been a very good value to this team.

  344. Nick in SF January 14th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Everyone’s excited to see Kuroda in pinstripes too, right?

    Right?

  345. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Hi comet! Happy New Year!! I hope all is well with you.

  346. yankee21 January 14th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    exiled, getting Kuroda was a very good move, unfortunately to me it was overshadowed by the “other move” that was announced a couple hours earlier….

  347. Hassey January 14th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Plus, we already know that Noesi could get out ML hitters…for all we know, in 5 years, this kid Campos could be the best right handed roofer in the world

  348. BTX January 14th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Re-sign Swisher to a 4 yr/$44 mil dollar deal

    Sign Andre Ethier for 5/$105

    Outfield problem solved next winter.

  349. Patrick January 14th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Everyone’s excited to see Kuroda in pinstripes too, right?

    Right?

    Very

  350. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    “He has a lot higher chance of busting than Montero. And I think Montero’s ceiling is higher – he really does have a chance to become a Manny or Cabrera type of hitter. ”

    ————-

    there are plenty of people who were saying Pineda really does have a chance to become a Felix Hernandez type pitcher.

    but of course, less risk involved with a bat than an arm.

    but IF the Yankees wanted a young elite arm like Pineda, the cost was Montero. It wasn’t going to happen otherwise.

  351. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    The Mariners should have made the Felix trade if the Yankees were really offering that…..not only would they be getting the Yankees top 3 prospects…..they’d have gotten to save 60 million dollars in salary over the next 3 years and they could have used that to add Fielder or other guys themselves……

  352. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    “Sign Andre Ethier for 5/$105″

    ————

    not so sure that’s gonna happen

  353. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Nick, I certainly made known my feelings about not wanting Kuroda for all the tea in China . :) But I have also said, as I did with Javy Vasquez, that once he’s ours, I’m all for him. I’m nothing if not a laundry kid!

  354. lounge lizard January 14th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    With somone as young as Pineda, it’s not about his stats, one way or the other. It’s not about his ERA, his strikeouts per inning or his fastball MPH or his height and weight.

    It’s about his mechanics. Does he have the mechanics of a long term starter? To my eyes, I don’t see the “flow” of a Stewart or a Gibson or a Hernandez or a Schilling. I see the “slingshot” release characteristic of a power reliever.

    I have to hope I’m wrong but that’s the downside of this deal.

  355. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    “Sign Andre Ethier for 5/$105″

    no way…..Ethier isn’t that good ….he’s awful defensively and can’t hit LHP at all….

  356. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    BTX,

    They had a front row seat to Pineda so that makes me feel good. And we had a front row spot to the Montero show so they should feel good.

  357. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    I’d say this is a pretty accurate depiction of where my head is at right now regarding the trade.

    http://www.bellport-playcrafte.....-large.jpg

    Later y’all.

  358. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Nick in SF Thrilled to see Kuroda in pinstripes YES!!

  359. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN

    Oakland Athletics are in negotiations with Bartolo Colon.

  360. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    “The Mariners should have made the Felix trade if the Yankees were really offering that…”

    ————-

    blake, I agree.

    Seattle is already stacked with young pitching and could have signed Prince and had the best young pitching in baseball by a mile.

    Prince at DH, Montero at C, Ackley, Smoak at 1st and all that pitching???

    wow

    though it’s a logjam if Montero doesn’t catch.

    still. wow.

  361. Patrick January 14th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    there are plenty of people who were saying Pineda really does have a chance to become a Felix Hernandez type pitcher.

    And Montero has a chance to be a Manny Ramirez / Frank Thomas / Miguel Cabrera type hitter. Both have huge ceilings, but for me I’d rather have the middle of the order hitter. And a hitting prospect has less chance of busting than a pitching prospect. Montero just seems like a lower risk, equal to higher reward option.

  362. spidanyc January 14th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Pineda, Nova and Jorge Campos for King Felix!!

  363. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Bobby V. makes it all the more possible to hate the sox. doesn’t he? Not that I needed any more incentive.

  364. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    “Smoak at 1st”

    ————

    by the way, I think Smoak will improve this year.

    he’s talented and may never justify his top prospect ranking, but I think he’ll settle in as a pretty good 1b.

  365. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    One other thing to think about in this deal:

    We are constantly talking about the Yankees being “built for the regular season”, but not for “The Post Season.”

    Well the post-season is generally dominated by power arms. The Yanks now have added one of the most powerful arms in the game who could be a beat in the cold weather of October.

    Obviously there is a lot of potential risk here, but there’s a lot of potential reward too.

    With 7 legit MLB starters the Yanks have the assets to remain very active.

  366. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
    “NYYs have a corner outfielder right now and Swisher does just fine for what the Yankees need.”

    ———–

    GB,

    It bugs me that so many people treat Swisher like a piece of trash on here. I really like the guy and he loves playing for the Yankees.

    I never discount the guys who love wearing pinstripes and love being here.

    Oh, and Swisher has about an .855 OPS since coming to NY.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Dave,

    Never really understood the dislike for a lot of the yankee players, from Rodriguez, Hughes, Swisher and others. There isn’t a better team mate than any of them, including Burnett. I sometimes wished that Swisher wasn’t so happy-go-lucky, and would get mad on occassion, but, I suppose that’s his way of relaxing. I understand that people get upset about the way Burnett’s last 2 seasons have gone, but, nobody tries harder or cares more. Why his career has dropped over the last 2 years, I have no idea. The idiocy of thinking that he’s a “headcase” or a “mental case” is ridiculous.

  367. Pat M. January 14th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Comet, good to see you back….I missed Betsy and Rich in NJ earlier….Spoke with SJ last night, hoping he’ll do the Randy I thing and make the weekly guest appearance….Maybe now that the LoHud seems to be stalker free some of the old guard will return…..I understand the loss of Montero, but in time most here will be wrapping their arms around the monster potential that is Michael Pineda……Hell he’s already very good…..No health issues and by the time 2014 rolls around he could be the guy in the Yanks rotation…..Lineups that have to face him are not going to sleep very well the night before…..

  368. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “Pineda, Nova and Jorge Campos for King Felix!!”

    ————

    not a chance.

    Seattle said no to Montero, Banuelos, and Betances for Felix…. which as blake said, seems crazy.

  369. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Joe Casale @sportsJC16 1m

    @AndrewMarchand if Pineda was Japanese Bobby V would sing his praises. Enjoy Vincente Padilla as your #4 starter.

    lol

  370. yankee21 January 14th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    The Yankees need to find a bat now, preferably one that has shown an ability to consistently hit RHP and can field without embarassing themselves.

    I do not have confidence that TEX will suddenly re-emerge as the elite middle of the order type bat that the Yankees paid for. He absolutely is garbage against any kind of decent RHP and most RHPs in a pitcher’s count. I do not have confidence AROD will appear in more than 75% of their games as his body is just breaking down. I also do not have confidence in Swisher having a good year going into FA status- I don’t think he is a guy that thrives on pressure. I was hoping Montero would be around to mitigate all this risk and give NY a buffer against these things happening.

    But hey, at least NY has 7 SP! CC doesn’t have to pitch on 6 days rest, he can get 7.

  371. Nick in SF January 14th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I’m excited about Kuroda too. I get why there are some reservations about him, but some good folks were in denial about the Yanks even being interested in him. Now we’ll see.

  372. Patrick January 14th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    yankee21 – Carlos Pena

  373. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    “Both have huge ceilings, but for me I’d rather have the middle of the order hitter. ”

    ————-

    Patrick,

    that’s debatable.

    Looking at the makeup of the Yankees team, they probably/possibly need another ace before they need another middle of the order hitter.

    It’s impossible for me to say that Montero won’t be great. But it seems it came down to the Yankees valuing a potential ace over another potential #3 hitter.

    time will tell. I still think both teams will be happy.

  374. Pat M. January 14th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Nick in SF……Yes to being excited about Kuroda in The Bronx, but that wasn’t a surprise…..If you get the chance, there’s a great piece in today’s NY Times about Candlestick Park…….Everyone should have experienced that place for a night game in July, unreal….

  375. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    One more thing – anyone ever have surgery to repair a torn meniscus? If so, how long before you were back to your regular activity? It’s intefering with my daily workout routine and I’m afraid I might be making it worse. So I think I need to get it repaired. Thanks.

  376. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    “@AndrewMarchand if Pineda was Japanese Bobby V would sing his praises. Enjoy Vincente Padilla as your #4 starter.”

    —————

    Padilla, Aaron Cook, Carlos Silva

    Boston’s rotation looks like this to me

    Beckett
    Lester
    Buchholz
    Aceves
    Bard

    but there is clearly tremendous risk there with NOTHING behind it should any of that risk turn sour.

  377. jacksquat January 14th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Tar January 14th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    “Either the DH spot has value – in which case it made sense to keep Montero and DH him there.”

    CB

    You mentioned how important roster spots are especially for the Yankees.

    Doesn’t Montero as a DH “ONLY” clog up an additional roster spot by necessitating a BU catcher? Doesn’t this also have the effect of devaluing Montero and the DH spot as it concerns the Yankees?

    No, this a Lahud fallacy.

    A normal team has a primary DH spot and two catcher spots.

    Montero filled the DH spot. Martin and Cervelli/Romine filled the two catcher spots. The fact that Montero may have caught some games is irrelevant.

    Now they will get someone else to fill the DH spot, and still have two catcher spots.

    If anything, if they get someone like Pena who would presumably only platoon at DH, they would then be using two roster spots to cover DH, although Jones (if he is the other side) doubles as the 4th outfielder.

  378. Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    I think Pat M. brought up a good point – in just about any series the Yanks play this season, they pitching matchups will be in their favor.

    Remember how Jim Kaat says – “they don’t call it winning or losing catcher”? Well, in the newspaper it lists starting pitching matchups, not lineup matchups. Momentum is the next day’s starting pitcher. All those sayings. It starts with starting pitching.

    If you subscribe to that school of thought, then the Yanks did well yesterday, for this season and more to come.

    Not that offense itsn’t important. (Another memory – the Giants beating Jim Kelly and the very high-scoring Buffalo Bills offense in the 1991 Super Bowl, and doing it on ball control and D). But, we’ve come up with several options for DH – Pena/Jones, Damon, Billy Butler – that wouldn’t break the budget, and would be perfectly serviceable at least.

  379. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Is Logan Morrison a possibility in LF?

  380. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    “Is Logan Morrison a possibility in LF?”

    ————

    Miami seems to be valuing him very highly.

    It would take Banuelos, I think, to land him.

  381. The Other Phil January 14th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    The more I look at it, the more I like the trade. As has been said ad nauseum, you have to give up something to get something. While Montero’s bat will be missed, the Yankees knew what they had in him and obviously felt he was sorely lacking in his behind the plate skills and would not improve.
    Pineda gives the staff a legit #2 who can hopefully develop into a #1. Even if the Yanks don’t make another move and give Nunez a shot at DH/3B/SS, I think that works as he’d be hitting 8/9. That also means Hughes or AJ as #5 (assuming Garcia lands in the long/6th role). Either is going to be better than all 5s in the league. Not a bad problem to have.

  382. Patrick January 14th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Yankees don’t need a LF, Brett Gardner is one of the better LF’s in the league. Yanks need a RF in 2013, worry about it then.

  383. yankee21 January 14th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    For the most part the Yankees have managed very well during the regular season putting it enough together to get to the post season. What I have seen in the PS over the last decade is for the most part NY’s offense goes to sleep. It has been the offense that has hurt them more than pitching. That is why it is strange to me this absolute near psychotic fixation on pitching as the cure all. Gee the Phillies sure went far didn’t they? They had 2/5 pitchers in the game and with Hamels, 3/10, yet they were bounced in the first round.

    You need a balance, with NY aging position players I am concerned NY will not have the balance needed with Montero no longer around.

  384. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Morrison is more of a probability in Miami.

  385. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    The forgotten man is Eduardo Nunez. He could easily be an upgrade over Posada. Then again, he could be used as a piece for a stud OF. Hughes + Gardner + Nunez + Betances. Some nice trade chips to upgrade LF.

  386. jacksquat January 14th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Adding to the above, if Jones is now the DH vs lhp, that means he is not in the outfield resting Gardner or Granderson.

    So if anything moving Montero and not replacing him with a full time DH creates more of a roster problem, not less.

  387. Pat M. January 14th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Tricia…..It’s not a big deal, after the swelling goes down you start rehab and PT….I played golf 2 weeks after my 2nd one…Then again I was much younger then….I just had my knee cleaned out in October once again…….Get it done Tricia, you’ll feel better and you will not be effecting other parts of your body as compensation for the injury

  388. Nick in SF January 14th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Pat M., thanks, I’ll check it out. The ‘Stick is a true dump and I generally avoided it, but I did have a few of those cold summer nights there. Incredible that the citizens of San Francisco almost didn’t let the Giants use the land on which they built the jewel that is now AT&T Park.

    Speaking of sticks, I think you took an unfortunate and unwarranted shot against commenter jerkface last night when you suggested he had one up his backside. Love him or hate him, it should be clear that he has as much fun as anyone commenting on the LoHud. Just my opinion, of course.

  389. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Maybe the Yankees should sign Prince Fielder and let him play left field. he could certainly cover the ground and left field wouldn’t be a sun field any longer with a living eclipse out there.

  390. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    “Maybe the Yankees should sign Prince Fielder and let him play left field. he could certainly cover the ground and left field wouldn’t be a sun field any longer with a living eclipse out there.”

    yea maybe he’d be as bad as the last fat guy they signed to be their #1 starter…..in many ways Prince is the Sabathia of hitters…..he never misses a game and just produces

  391. JK January 14th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    6-7, 22 year old, 94-98 mph, 4:1 k to walk ratio, >9 k/9, 5 years of control

    I loved me some Jesus, but I’m making this trade every single time.

    Pineda is a 28 year old Burnett/pre injury Joba WITH COMMAND!!!!

  392. yankee21 January 14th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Let’s say Kevin Towers called Cashman and said if you are still interested in Upton, it will take Betances, Hughes, Swisher and Romine. Do you do it if you are Cashface?

  393. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    “Let’s say Kevin Towers called Cashman and said if you are still interested in Upton, it will take Betances, Hughes, Swisher and Romine. Do you do it if you are Cashface?”

    of course,…..it’d take a lot more than that though.

  394. Giuseppe Franco January 14th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Hey, Joe. Hope all is well on your end.

    I don’t think any of us disagree with the notion that pitching is still the name of the game.

    But Cashman has committed the last 6 years to rebuilding the minor league system and stockpiling young arms to use for themselves and as trade chips.

    They are already starting to bear fruit with guys like Robertson, Noesi, Nova, etc, etc, pitching at the major league level and have a number of quality young arms that will help them in the near future (whether it’s on the field or in exchange for other needs).

    But Montero is the one and only elite bat in the system that was major league ready. Nobody else is even close.

    I think that’s the biggest reason why I (and others) have issues with this deal. They already have an abundance of young arms but no bats to speak of (at least not anytime soon).

  395. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 14th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Pat M, thanks! I’m actually researching doctors as we speak. I definitely am going to get it done. Can I do PT at home? I hate the thought of having to go to a physical therapist, especially in the winter. Also, since it is such a common injury, I am assuming that I do not have to find the creme de la creme of orthopods but rather just stay away from anyone known to be a butcher.

    :)

  396. JK January 14th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    I don’t see the Yankees resigning a 33 year old Granderson to a long term deal. If the Yankees are serious about 179M (that is the real target with +10M going to benefits) they can afford to resign Cano & bring in 1 more 15M+ player. That player will not be a pitcher now.

    The Yankees can obtain any major bat that hits the market in the next few years. Any <28 year old OF/3B that fits the Yankees profile (patience & power) that is entering 2nd+ year arb on a small market team, nearing free agency or has a back-loaded contract on a mid market team could be a future target.

  397. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Assuming the Yanks carry 12 pitchers (right now they have about 15!) you have 5 guys for the bench and DH. Three of them are likely to be Andruw Jones, Francisco Cervelli and Eduward Nunez.

    That leaves 2 spots. One of them really needs to go to someone who can be a serviceable 3B the other could be a pure bat or a 5th OF type. One of the two MUST offer power from the left side since he AB are likely to come when they rest Tex or Swish against a RHP.

    I still think Betemit is the best 3B option because you could play him at 3B and DH A-Rod vs some RHP too. I wouldn’t mind if Chris Dickerson got the 25th spot.

    Obviously they can aim higher talent wide via the trade market with starting pitching to spare both on the MLB and AAA levels.

  398. Pat M. January 14th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Nick in SF……I agree with you about The Face-Man, and I had regrets after posting that comment…I shouldn’t let him get under my skin …..Did you go to The Cal game the other night ???

  399. djsunyc January 14th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    ny fans the smartest fans in sports?

    lol – not if they read this blog the last 2 days. talk about overreacting drama queens.

    some of you get it.

    and some of you should be watching 90210…

  400. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
    “Maybe the Yankees should sign Prince Fielder and let him play left field. he could certainly cover the ground and left field wouldn’t be a sun field any longer with a living eclipse out there.”

    yea maybe he’d be as bad as the last fat guy they signed to be their #1 starter…..in many ways Prince is the Sabathia of hitters…..he never misses a game and just produces

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    His father didn’t miss many games, either, until he was 32 years old, and he was 5 inches taller and 30 pounds lighter. Being a vegitarian is fine, but, that doesn’t help much if you sit down and eat a bushel of corn and a plate of biscuits with gravy 5 times a day.

  401. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    But Montero is the one and only elite bat in the system that was major league ready. Nobody else is even close.

    I think that’s the biggest reason why I (and others) have issues with this deal.”

    ———-

    hard to argue that.

    I think signing Kuroda was enough.

    But losing Montero doesn’t make Pineda any less valuable as a pitcher. There could be a bright side to this nonetheless.

  402. Mike_Boston January 14th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Obviously I hate losing Montero like everybody, but the more I’m reading/processing the more I love this deal. Kuroda, for simply blocking him from the sox is huge, but he’s going in as the #2 now. Nova as your #4 ain’t that bad with steady Freddy as the best 5 in the majors. Yanks rotation, along with the pen, are significantly better than the sox. I’m very curious to see what happens to AJ/Hughes. I can see Cash telling AJ that if doesn’t agree to a no trade he will become mop up guy, so they do a big Z type of deal someplace. I find it hard to see Hughes going down to AAA to keep stretched but trading him now at his value is foolish. I guess it’s a good problem to have for the FO.

  403. exiledintampa January 14th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    #ICB says Phillies/Cubs talking to Yankees about Hughes

  404. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    “His father didn’t miss many games, either, until he was 32 years old”

    that’s why you offer a short term deal only….Cecil was never as good an overall player or hitter as Prince is anyway though.

  405. spidanyc January 14th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    **UPDATED MLB RUMOR**Source: Phillies / Cubs have been talking with the Yankees in regards to Phil Hughes also may expand deal #HeatingUp as per Incarcerated Bob

  406. jacksquat January 14th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Does Hughes still have an option?

  407. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    “#ICB says Phillies/Cubs talking to Yankees about Hughes”

    for what? The Cubs have nothing to offer…..and neither do the Phillies either really….Hughes for Dom Brown maybe.

  408. jacksquat January 14th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    I need a better source than Incarcerated Bob.

  409. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    not a fan of ‘selling low’ on Hughes

  410. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    Dominic Brown would be a good get. Hughes + Swisher?

  411. spidanyc January 14th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    The only players on the Cubs that excite me are Garza and Starlin Castro.

  412. Mike Ri January 14th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    #ICB says Phillies/Cubs talking to Yankees about Hughes

    ——————–
    Hughes , Bentances , Mattingly’s Son , The Ball Boy and a six pack …. for Hamels

    get it done Cash money

  413. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    “Hughes for Dom Brown maybe.”

    —–

    what would you think about that blake?

    I’d rather let Hughes pitch and build up trade value if that’s the plan.

    I’m not high on Brown but that’s just my unprofessional opinion. (though Brown was rated higher than Montero on many boards before last season)

  414. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    “Dominic Brown would be a good get. Hughes + Swisher?”

    Swisher is better than Brown right now….Hughes for Brown straight up maybe

  415. spidanyc January 14th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    If Hughes goes to to the Phillies……..

    Halladay
    Lee
    Hamels
    Worley
    Hughes

  416. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Or Hughes + Gardner for Dominic Brown?

  417. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:46 pm
    “His father didn’t miss many games, either, until he was 32 years old”

    that’s why you offer a short term deal only….Cecil was never as good an overall player or hitter as Prince is anyway though.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Cecil Fielder was a good hitter and a very under rated defensive first baseman. his problem was that he ate his way out of baseball. Prince Fielder makes Jonathan Broxton look anorexic.

  418. Bret The Hitman January 14th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    Hughes straight up for Brown would be a coup.

  419. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    BD,

    Brown had a hole in his swing the size of Texas last time I saw him…..but he’s very talented and cheap with upside……if Hughes had more years of control I’d say no…..but he’s getting close to free agency and the Yanks now have a surplus of pitching…..so yea I’d probably do that.

  420. blake January 14th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Prince is more athletic than his dad was for that size though….Prince is a good athlete for his size….kinda like CC.

  421. Nick in SF January 14th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Pat M. , no visit to Haas for me, but I caught most of it on tv. I thought Cal would cover the 12 points, but the Buffs were better than I thought they’d be and Guttierez and Crabbe decided to have awful games on the same night. I was just glad to get the W. Not feeling like laying 23.5 tonight, but maybe a little teaser action for entertainment purposes only.

  422. m January 14th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Shouldn’t there be a ban on reporting incarcerated bob stuff?

  423. Joe from Long Island January 14th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    GF – hi, yourself. a belated happy holidays.

    I know, i have had the same thought. the thing is, the Yanks – not just cash, but the pro scouts – must have seen something in pineda that they really, really like a lot. the finances that cb has spoken of are obviously factors, also. it comes down to how they actually see their team, the trend in the baseball industry as to what you need to be competitve, and the direction they want to go in down the road. Because, to me, this deal is about a lot more than just 2012, or even 2013.

    I’m really expecting another big deal, using some of that xs starting pitching; or, failing that, Pena to platoon with Jones.

    A bench of Pena/Chavez from the left side, and Jones/Nunez from the right, isn’t too shabby.

  424. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    blake,

    yeah.

    I think Hughes can re-establish himself this season. The odds of him doing better this year are much higher than Browns and thus I think they can wait. Hughes can help NY in 2012 and I’m not sure Brown can.

    I won’t cry if they did it straight up but I think they’d get even more for Hughes if they wait.

    We’ll see.

  425. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    But Joe….Nunez, Jones, Chavez and Pena aren’t $20 mil a year superstars.

  426. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    I don’t think Cecil Fielder was ever listed at over 230 pounds on a roster.

    I don’t think Big Daddy was ever @ 230 after 9th grade.

    The problem with Pena, other than vs LHP is he can only play 1B. I like more versatility on the bench… but it’s true a Pena/Jones DH platoon would probably be very productive.

  427. chi7072 January 14th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    jorge vazquez

  428. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    the (possible) problem ?

    the Yanks have created a logjam at pitcher. they almost have to trade AJ or Hughes.

    on top of that, it’s a buyers market right now for Oswalt and EJax (once he wakes up)

    can they get good value for either guy?

  429. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    Cecil Fielder was about 6’4″ and 250 during his heyday. It was his last 3 years or so that he was in the 280 range. That’s what killed his career. his son is at that weight now and considerably shorter.

  430. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    it’s hard to consider Prince a non-risk on a 6-7 year deal, IMO.

    but if the Sox had just waited a year, they could have had Prince and still kept Casey Kelly!!

  431. Best To Ever Do It January 14th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    djsunyc January 14th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    ny fans the smartest fans in sports?

    lol – not if they read this blog the last 2 days. talk about overreacting drama queens.

    some of you get it.

    and some of you should be watching 90210…

    ——————————–

    So in other words never criticize a move you don’t like.

  432. GreenBeret7 January 14th, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Trading a 25 year old pitcher makes no sense when you have to add multiple players into a trade package just to get mediocrity back. Everyone talks about how much Hughes sucks and to unload him, but demand quality back. Which is it? Allow him to get into camp and find out what a healthy Phil Hughes can be.

  433. 86w183 January 14th, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Not arguing that Prince isn’t waaaay too big. Just that his dad, even in his prime was too big, too.

    Vasquez is a RH hitter. Yanks need a LH bat for the bench. Not only do they not have one, but their switch hitters are much better from the right side lately.

  434. BD (Boston Dave) January 14th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Jose Campos has been slotted as the Yankees #5 prospect, just behind Gary Sanchez and just ahead of Little Dante, on one list I saw.

  435. Duh Innings January 14th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Burnett and $7.25M ($3.625M for 2012, $3.625M for 2013) to Houston for Carlos Lee.

    The Yanks and Astros pay $25.75M each.

    The Yanks pay $5.625M more for Lee than they would for Burnett for 2012 ($18.5M + $3.625 = $22.125M.)

    I’d rather the Yanks spend $22.125M for a year of Lee and $3.625M in 2013 than $33M on two more years of Burnett.

  436. Duh Innings January 14th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    The logic behind my trade idea is who could take on Lee’s $18.5M in his walk year besides the Yankees?

    Any team who wants Lee for the second half of the year will have to cough up $9.25M, the final third of the year about $6.17M. Even Lee for the final 40-41 games will cost over $4.5M.

    The Astros could look at it like they traded a guy who would be untradeable if not for the Yanks taking on his salary and gained a pitcher for two years at $25.75M.

  437. Dill Pickler January 14th, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    I hate this trade. All this time, Cashman’s been saying he wouldn’t trade Montero for anything but an ace. Then he deals him for Pineda? Sorry, just don’t think all that much of Pineda. Unless we now sign Prince Fielder for the open DH spot, I hate this deal.

    And can we just stop with the “Montero was blocked at DH by Jeter and ARod” garbage? Montero would have been the primary DH this year, period. And you don’t hold your DH spot open for Jeter. Jeter is NOT a DH! He’s a singles-hitter. I love Jeter, but he’s not a DH! And whether or not ARod ends up needing to become the full-time DH in the future is very much a question.

    Montero showed a lot last September. Cashman continues to compare him to Miguel Cabrera. Time will tell whether Pineda pans out, but I just don’t see it.

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