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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees make Hughes deal official, plus some notes and links

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 16, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

After Phil Hughes’ agent tweeted his deal, the Yankees made it official with a press release. The release made it clear that Hughes has a non-guaranteed deal, which is pretty standard for arbitration-eligible players.

The Associated Press has the details of Hughes’ performance bonuses. According to the AP:

Hughes can make an additional $225,000 in performance bonuses under the deal: $50,000 for 20 starts, and $25,000 each for 23, 26, 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33 starts.

Just a few other notes from today…

• With their designated hitter role open, the Yankees have reportedly talked to Hideki Matsui. He could be worth a shot as a low-cost option, but Matsui wasn’t especially good last season.

• Jon Paul Morosi reports that the Red Sox would like to upgrade their rotation and have stayed in contact with Roy Oswalt. According to Rob Bradford, though, the Red Sox would have to dump some salary to sign Oswalt. 

• The Red Sox did sign another veteran pitcher on Monday, finally agreeing to terms with Vicente Padilla. Although Padilla has been a starter and a reliever, he’s expected to compete for a rotation spot.

• Former Yankees lefty Phil Coke avoided arbitration with the Tigers and agreed to a $1.1-million deal. Meanwhile, former Yankees catching prospect Dioner Navarro signed a minor league deal with the Reds. 

Associated Press photo

 
 

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316 Responses to “Yankees make Hughes deal official, plus some notes and links”

  1. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    vicente padilla, eh…well that sure evens things up….

  2. mick January 16th, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    sounds like phil is going to start.

  3. Carlo January 16th, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    Padilla has had success. If he’s healthy, he can help them. not intimidating by any stretch, but a worthwhile gamble.

  4. kd January 16th, 2012 at 9:34 pm

    well y’s guy. it makes sure that tex gets hit twice in the first game that he pitches against us

    here’s a guy who got kicked off of the rangers for bad behavior. he’ll be a perfect fit in fenway

  5. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Padilla is a scary dude with little left to offer. Couldn’t have gone to a finer team!

    Well it looks like I’m 1-3 anyway, at least thus far. Hughes appears poised to remain a New York Yankee.

    I’d love to have Matsui back. I’m not thinking that the Yanks feel they need a DH who will be able to rake every time up – or we’d still have Montero. I think Matsui can get the job done enough of the time that it would be worth a flyer. I’d also welcome back Damon.

  6. DaSaint007 January 16th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Wonder if the Nats would do a AJ for Lannan or AJ for Clippard deal?

  7. LGY January 16th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    If the Orioles support the rotating DH you know it’s a bad idea.

  8. Joe from Long Island January 16th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Saint- I’d be willing to take next to nothing back, as long as it saved the bucks to let Hal approve Carlos Pena.

  9. LGY January 16th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    The Yankees took all the fun out of it.

    They should have went to arbitration and hit hard with the Phil is fat jokes.

  10. Pat M. January 16th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    LGY….Who was the DH for the 96-2001 Yanks ???

  11. kd January 16th, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    trader,

    from last post. morneau is an interesting thought. they’d want to trade him to find a position for mauer. he could play back up rf and 1st. dh and hit rh pitching, all if healthy. if he could pass a physical, i’d really look at it.

    but is aj enough?

  12. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    here’s some bad trading: the white sox traded gio gonzalez to the a’s for nick swisher then a year later turned swisher into betamit and jeff marquez. ouch!

  13. luis January 16th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    Trisha,

    Hi, he is not scary…….he is nuts.

  14. m January 16th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    LGY,

    That’s hilarious. Phil’s agent can respond that he wasn’t the one who showed up 30 lbs overweight. ;)

  15. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    Huuuuuughes!

  16. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    DaSaint, the Nats have a mighty nice little pitching cadres at this point in time. I don’t know that they’d have room for AJ (or want to take the chance on him).

    If AJ disappears it’s going to be because the Yankees were agreeable to eating up enough of his salary.

    I’ve really read the tea leaves wrong this off season so it’s possible I’m all wet on this one, but there’s always the chance that Cashman is going to let them all show up for ST and fight each other for starting jobs.

  17. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Pruf, let’s just hope Sanchez catches well enough that the braintrust will keep him at that position, and not deal him.

  18. Teary . Francona January 16th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Very few great players make it to free agency, because of the revenue sharing system in place, so the Yankees better make a run at Cole Hamels.

    Wasn’t Vlad good last year or the year before with the Angels?

    Id try Vlad at DH.

  19. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    Hi luis!!! Great to see you here!!!!

    Nuts probably hits it on the head. And he sank like a stone the past two seasons. I was surprised that the Dodgers dropped him from the rotation and put him in the pen, but apparently they saw something they didn’t like. He actually might shine for the Sux because they’re nothing but crap right now anyway so he might end up making them look good – which isn’t going to be hard since they look so bad.

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Nilsson January 16th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 9:27 pm
    I forgot about it too. Until I saw your post about Montero and his absence from winter ball. Then the light bulb went off.
    ///

    When I heard JM was out for WB, I felt a little sick. Then I sort of talked myself out of it.

    ————————————————————————————–

    Look at it this way. At least it wasn’t for Gio Gonzalez, Garza, Danks. etc … Not that they’re bad pitchers, but if Montero was gonna be sacrificed for them, then I’m likely at stage 3 right now.
    ///

    Nilsson, yup. That would have been even less bearable. Pineda is an exciting, electric arm and young.

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 9:39 pm
    luis January 16th, 2012 at 9:24 pm
    JAP,

    LOL!!!, translation GO LITTLE MACHINE!!!
    ///

    LOL! He’s not that little, though. Not as big as Jesus.

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 9:42 pm
    luis January 16th, 2012 at 9:22 pm
    JAP,

    Count on it, I wouldn’t miss it for anything. I will relay some info for you through Chad if that’s ok with you.
    ///

    Absolutely. Looking forward to it.

  21. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 9:44 pm
    Pruf, let’s just hope Sanchez catches well enough that the braintrust will keep him at that position, and not deal him.
    ///

    Let’s hope. Or maybe he can outlast Girardi in the organization.

  22. luis January 16th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Yankeefem,

    If you asked me two nights ago, probably I would have answered that he was going to be traded.Now, I have a cooler head, so I just hope that you are right.

    Trisha,

    Nothing can make the sux look good, I just think he fits very well in that zoo.

  23. Teary . Francona January 16th, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    Hi Trisha. Great to see you here!

  24. Benny Blanco January 16th, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    Blake,

    I know Kevin Long is not GOD, but do you think he has the ability to help improve Carlos pena if we sign him?

  25. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    vlad’s ops dropped 108 pts last year to .733, .198 below his career ops. he’s turning 36 this year.

  26. my my my My Kuroda January 16th, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    somewhat off topic subject: did anyone notice the photo of Johnny Damon in the DailyNews- he’s swinging a right handed golf club. That’s got to be something a bit rare, swings a bat lefty and a golf club right handed.

  27. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    kd-

    The only reason I brought up Morneau for Burnett is, even if Morneau can’t play more than half the games during the 2 years 28M left on his salary, if the Twins took on Burnett even up, the Yankees would save 5M, which could be applied toward another positional player. If Burnett stays with the Yankees most of this year, he’s likely to work out of the bullpen if Hughes win’s the 5th spot.

    At this point I believe, it’s in the best interest to trade Burnett, not for a bag of balls, where the Yankees still get taxed on Burnett’s contract, but for another bad contract of a player who can hit.

  28. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    “Trisha,

    Nothing can make the sux look good, I just think he fits very well in that zoo.”

    Really good point Luis. I’m loving their “new look”.

    LMAO!!!!!

    :)

    Last year I predicted 3rd place. Heck they could be in line for fourth or worse. And no Nick, I am not betting on it right now thank you!

  29. DaSaint007 January 16th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Trisha,

    The Nats have questions also after Gio and Strasburg, who is still a question. AJ could provide 200 innings. Shoot, I’d even take Wang back!

  30. luis January 16th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    Trisha,

    Could you imagine Buckett and Padilla sharing their beers and expertise on how many batters they have and can hit??, I hope they concentrate on that and not winning games!!

  31. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    luis, what was the reaction in Venezuela to the Montero trade?

    Looking at the sched, I’m guessing Pineda likely will open at the Mets. Get him acclimated in a pitcher’s park before he hits NYS.

    Morneau’s still dealing with post concussion syndrome.

  32. luis January 16th, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    Going out guys, take care see you soon. Good night

  33. Tom in N.J. January 16th, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    “I know Kevin Long is not GOD, but do you think he has the ability to help improve Carlos pena if we sign him?”

    Didn’t Pena credit the work he did in ’06 with Long with helping become a better hitter?

    This was when Carlos Pena was in Columbus-then the Yankees AAA team.

  34. blake January 16th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    “I know Kevin Long is not GOD, but do you think he has the ability to help improve Carlos pena if we sign him?”

    eh maybe….maybe shorten him up a bit…..but honestly for what the Yankees would be signing him for (hitting against RHP)….he was pretty good last year. (255/.388/.504/.892)…with 21 homers homers vs RHP.

    actually if you combined Pena’s numbers vs RHP and Jones’ numbers vs LHP from last year…..you’d get 29 homers, 86 RBI, and about 32 doubles.

  35. randy l. January 16th, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    “it usually comes down to trying to figure out what a guy is going to become which is the part that nobody has really figured out yet.”

    y’s guy-

    you said this last year at about this time,and i’d agree with what you said. i think in reference to our opposing positions about pineda tonight that only time will tell who’s right.

    neither of us can predict the future, but i did go in with an open mind looking at a few videos and pineda was not pleasing to my eyes. i didn’t like his delivery.
    do i know enough to tell you off the top of my head what i didn’t like?
    no, i’m not a pitching coach but usually when my eyes are not happy, something’s not right.
    there are unorthodox deliveries that work, but this does not look like a delivery that will stand the test of time.

  36. m January 16th, 2012 at 10:00 pm

    Any thoughts on the timing of this deal? Right on the heels of the addition of Pineda and Kuroda? Maybe a deal in the works?

  37. luis January 16th, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    Yankeefem,

    I’m in Canada right now, so I wouldn’t know. but I bet he is disappointed. And the reaction of the local media is probably gushing about King Felix forming the battery with The Jesus, so I have stayed away from the local news, it would only infuriate me a little more. later guys

  38. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    jordan zimmerman (nationals #3 starter) is not a question mark. he went 8-11, 3.18 era, 1.15 whip, 161IP, 124K, 31 bb, 124 era+, and turns 26 this year.

  39. Teary . Francona January 16th, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    Open at the Mets? Huh? Did they change the schedule or something and now we play the Mets in April or is that in ST?

  40. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    Ys Guy-

    Speaking of some bad trading. The A’s traded their #1 Gonzalez, their #2 Cahill, their #4 Morosco, their #6 in Outman and only have their #3 in Brandon McCarthy left. Rich Harden, their #5 is gone.

    Billy Beane and the owner have pulled a Charles Finley and gutted the starting pitching staff.

  41. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    I hear ya, Luis; have a good night!

  42. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    But they have Jordan Zimmerman who pitched some really good games for them, CM, Lannan, and Ross Detwiler stacked up. Was Jason Marquis just a one-year signing? They really have a lot of pitching. I don’t know if they would let Stammen start but it wouldn’t surprise me. I just don’t think they’re in the market for pitching. It would cost them a lot less to just take Livan Hernandez back, and he at least knows the league.

    I can’t see AJ fitting anywhere on the Nats.

  43. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    Sorry it was Baltimore where Pineda would pitch. Thought that was kind of weird.

  44. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    “Could you imagine Buckett and Padilla sharing their beers and expertise on how many batters they have and can hit??, I hope they concentrate on that and not winning games!!”

    I am really looking forward to watching that cameraderie!

    :D

  45. kd January 16th, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    padilla a red sox at the end of july? or does he get kicked off the team like in texas?

  46. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    burnett would at best compete for the nat’s #5 spot. no reason for them to take on his salary on the chance that he might upgrade them at #5. wang makes only $4M, i’d just go with him and spend the other $12.5 somewhere else.

  47. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    yt, that all depends on what the prospects they got for those guys do. they weren’t going to compete with that group, so they cashed them in for guys who will hopefully be studs when they open in a new ballpark in san jose.

  48. CB January 16th, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    “there are unorthodox deliveries that work, but this does not look like a delivery that will stand the test of time.”

    The concern I have with Pineda’s delivery is that it’s pretty arm heavy. He doesn’t utilize his whole body to create an integrated kinetic chain. It’s a lot of arm.

    And in general that’s a concern. I’d prefer he utilize more of his whole frame like CC does. But it is what it is.

    Also, if you are one who believes in that whole “inverted W” theory then Pineda’s delivery is very concerning.

    It’s near impossible to predict injuries for pitchers so who knows. We’ll just have to see. All of this is just part of young pitching – especially the risks involved with exchanging a valuable asset for a young pitcher.

    Fingers crossed.

  49. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Padilla is a thug.

    And I hear he likes chicken wings and beer.

    He’ll fit right in in Boston.

    I hope he tries hitting Tex just one more time because Tex is gonna turn him inside out like an old greasy sock if he does and send him to the DL for a long, long time.

    ;)

  50. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    we have to counter the padilla move.

    where’s sidney ponson?

  51. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    Padilla was kicked off of the Rangers, who cited “poor personal hygiene” and his “disruptive clubhouse presence.”

    Should fit in well in the Red Sox clubhouse.

  52. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    There are obviously teams that need pitching and for whom AJ might seem like an acceptable choice, but not at the price tag. If the Yankees eat up a lot of the salary, then maybe. But in the past they have not seemed keen on doing that. They tend to use their big money guys if they are still on the team.

    If the Yanks go to ST with all of the pitchers they have now, it’s going to be mighty interesting. Again, Cash will not go north with fewer than 6 starters. Who the six will be, that is the question. I have to figure that Cash has some kind of plan in mind. Do we know that Nova is completely healthy and ready to pitch? If there is any question there, then you might not see any pitching movement out of the Bronx whatsoever.

    A lot of questions remain to be answered.

  53. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    “Padilla was kicked off of the Rangers, who cited “poor personal hygiene” and his “disruptive clubhouse presence.”

    Should fit in well in the Red Sox clubhouse.”

    :)

  54. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Padilla looks like he had an accident with a pomade truck.

    Guess no one ever taught him the right way to apply the greasy kid stuff.

    And I thought Chase Utley was bad.

    ;)

  55. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    Good night all.

    Will the Yankees trade Burnett’s bad contract for a hitter’s bad contract to fill the DH spot, or grab the first FA DH who says show me the “measly” [$2 million] money??

    Until tomorrow.

  56. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    Night Trader!

    :)

    Stay tuned!!!

  57. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    YT-

    Probably the latter.

    Sweet dreams.

    Picture Pineda’s first shutout.

    :)

  58. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    MTU-

    Does pomade help with head lice???
    Padilla kicked off the Rangers for poor hygiene.
    O Brother, Where Art Thou?

    Good night. Until tomorrow.

  59. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    Are you still using that greasy kid’s stuff?
    That icky, sticky, ooey, gooey greasy kid’s stuff?

  60. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    “Padilla kicked off the Rangers for poor hygiene”

    I’d like to believe that part is totally untrue. That would make me feel really bad for him. That just doesn’t even make sense. I have to believe that there are other players out there who may not have the best hygiene and I have to also believe that if personal hygiene were an issue, someone would take the guy aside and talk to him about it. If there is anything to it, you know it was just used as a smoke screen.

  61. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    YT-

    Yeah. The George Clooney look.

    He looks like he had a fight with him and came out on the wrong end of it.

    For head lice, in a case like his, you remove the head.

    That way you save the lice which are infinitely more important.

    ;)

  62. randy l. January 16th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    “It’s near impossible to predict injuries for pitchers so who knows. We’ll just have to see. All of this is just part of young pitching – especially the risks involved with exchanging a valuable asset for a young pitcher.”

    cb-

    i agree it’s impossible to predict injury or guarantee health with pitchers. i remember rick peterson saying that scott kazmir would be injury prone and peterson took a lot of heat when kazmir became a very good pitcher for several years, but when you look at kazmir’s career, peterson wasn’t totally wrong.

    i wouldn’t pretend to know even a small part of what rick petersen knows about pitching, but i have put enough time in that i trust my eyes to tell me if something looks right or wrong.
    i don’t like pineda’s delivery any more than i like aj’s although there must be something right about pineda where he has such good control.

    it’s going to be interesting learning about pineda’s delivery as time goes on.

  63. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    MTU – it’s probably better not to hype Pineda to the hilt, even though you may love the guy (I know I do.) It’s like going to the movies after everyone in the world has told you it will be the best movie you’ll ever see. It never meets the expectations.

    I think it’s better to prepare fans for the possibility that it may be a slow transition but to have faith because the guy is the real deal. You don’t want people hating on him if he fails to deliver in the first month or two!

    I always say that if Roger Clemens took more than a half year to come across with the goods, lesser-developed talents shouldn’t be expected to walk in and take over.

    JMO

  64. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    Randy-

    Off the top of my head I can think of two pretty good pitchers who didn’t exactly have perfect balance when the delivered the ball.

    One was Bob Gibson. Another was named Juan Marichal.

    They seemed to do alright w/o it.

    :)

  65. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    I was also going to say that I’ve seen some pretty funky deliveries from some mighty good pitchers!

  66. Best To Ever Do It January 16th, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    here’s some bad trading: the white sox traded gio gonzalez to the a’s for nick swisher then a year later turned swisher into betamit and jeff marquez. ouch!

    ——————————

    SMH at them trading Gio twice. As if once wasn’t bad enough

  67. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Ugh. Vincent Padilla on an American League team means that the punk will be throwing at Yankee hitters with impunity.

  68. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Trisha-

    You should know me by now.

    My expectations are set properly.

    I have alot more patience for young Pitchers than most do.

    I think I understand the developmental process pretty well.

    I’m not expecting miracles out of Pineda right off the bat.

    I assure you.

    He is a very talented work-in-progress with a big upside.

    I don’t expect his path to success to be a straight line.

    I hope no one else does either.

  69. randy l. January 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    “Off the top of my head I can think of two pretty good pitchers who didn’t exactly have perfect balance when the delivered the ball.”

    mtu=

    yeah, but they were throwing off mounds so high it made a little off balance look a lot off balance.

  70. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    Ghost-

    Not with impunity.

    ;)

  71. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    Jerkface January 16th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Why wouldn’t they care about it, if it has the predictive power that you claim it has? Are they myopic or stupid?

    Both? The Twins GM famously said he would take the pitcher that had ’18 wins and a 10 ERA’ over the ’18 losses and 2 ERA’ pitcher. And teams trade for or sign guys that aren’t great bets to succeed all the time. Joel Pineiro got 16 million from the Angels and that guy can’t strike anybody out.

    You need to have a more compelling argument as to why Nova does not have good trade value right now. You’re basically just trying to shift this into something about SABR.
    ===========================

    No, you missed the point. My point is that timing the market is very difficult at best, if not impossible. You might be able to get over on somebody once in a while, but to systematically time the market means that you can recognize when somebody has peaked in value, that nobody else can recognize that the peak has occurred, and that they will be willing to pay the peak price.

    You look at Nova’s strikeout rates, and conclude from them that he can’t match his performance in 2011. What makes you think that others can’t see these strikeout rates and come to the same conclusion? And if they do observe these strikeout rates, then wouldn’t that be priced into Nova’s value? If so, then it’s hard to make the case that his value has peaked.

    I never suggested that Nova doesn’t have good trade value. I just think that it would be a mistake to move him based on some half-baked theory that his value has peaked. You’re the one that suggested his trade value has peaked, and so the burden is on you that has to make the case. At the end of the day, theories that rely on the myopia of others aren’t terribly persuasive in my book.

  72. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    Ghost-

    Not with impunity.

    ;)
    ==================

    I’ll never forget the time that CC nailed Padilla in Dodger Stadium for throwing at Cano. That was absolutely beautiful! That was the day that I became a CC fan :)

    In the AL, I’m afraid that CC won’t get the chance…

  73. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    Randy-

    Seriously, I understand what you mean about deliveries.

    At one extreme you extremly violent max effort ones like Joba’s, and at the other you have smooth, whole-body almost effortless ones like Moore, or Feliz.

    On that scale Pineda probably falls somewhere in the middle.

    Perhaps Rothschild will clean his mechanics up a bit ?

    Let’s hope he can improve upon it.

    We’ll see.

  74. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Ghost-

    Sometimes the person who is hit takes care of it.

    ;)

  75. RadioKev January 16th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    How many days until pitchers and catchers report? I can’t wait.

  76. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Trisha-

    You should know me by now.

    My expectations are set properly.

    I have alot more patience for young Pitchers than most do.

    I think I understand the developmental process pretty well.

    I’m not expecting miracles out of Pineda right off the bat.

    I assure you.

    He is a very talented work-in-progress with a big upside.

    I don’t expect his path to success to be a straight line.

    I hope no one else does either.
    ============================

    Who do you think will develop into a big contributor for their respective teams first: Montero or Pineda? To be a bit more specfic about it: Do you think that Pineda will win 15 games for the Yanks before Montero hits 25 hom runs for the Ms?

  77. RadioKev January 16th, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    Yeah, the nice thing about Pineda is that he is a work in progress. We can still hope that his issues are correctable – similar in some respects to the Granderson trade. The potential is clearly there, we just have to develop him to that point.

  78. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Ghost-

    Sometimes the person who is hit takes care of it.

    ;)
    ===============

    Who on the Red Sox is most likely to kick Padilla’s ass if he gets drilled inretaliation by CC? :)

  79. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    Trisha-

    I have no idea. I wouldn’t care to predict.

    They both might do it in their first season. Each has the respective talent.

    Or neither might.

    What do you think ?

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    Let’s hope they don’t “clean up” his mechanics like they did Joba’s. Seems that’s when his velocity and life went missing. Rothschild, OTOH, seemed to find something from video on Joba pre-”cleanup” and helped restore it to his delivery, & it coincidentally also occurred to Joba.

  81. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    MTU – mea culpa for not reading enough of the posts enough of the time. I just seem to see your posts touting Pineda (I think I know why you’re doing it) but I’m just afraid that it’s going to raise the expectations of those who are still not sold on him and still mourning Montero. I think it’s better to caution expectations and let fans understand that he is still a work in progress, which he is, but that he has a ton of upside and will probably end up being in the top of the rotation at some point in time. Seriously, the guy has enough of a target on his back being the trade piece for Montero. I know you personally are patient. Not everyone is. And if someone like you continues to sing high praises and talk about Pineda’s first shutout, fans might really raise their expectations of what Pineda will bring.

    I don’t know if I’m making any sense. Maybe I’m not, and in that case feel free to ignore what I am saying. Seriously.

    :)

  82. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    Ghost-

    I go with Youkilis.

    :)

  83. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    MTU – that wasn’t I who asked the questions. It was Ghost.

  84. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    JAP-

    Rothschild and Eiland are 2 entirely different animals.

    As are Pineda and Joba.

    :)

  85. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    I somehow found the courage to visit MLB.com to watch video of Pineda and actually hear the talking heads discuss the trade. I got excited watching Pineda, and then they ran video of Montero hitting and I got depressed again. Very.

  86. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    Trisha-

    I have no idea. I wouldn’t care to predict.

    They both might do it in their first season. Each has the respective talent.

    Or neither might.

    What do you think ?
    ==============

    I asked the question, not Trisha. I think that Montero is more likely to get his act together more quickly, because I think that hitters tend to figure things out earlier than pitchers. I expect Pineda to struggle somewhat next year as a Yankee, because teams will adjust to him, and he will have to figure out how to counter those adjustments. Pitchers always seem to take a step back after their first year in the big leagues.

  87. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    MTU January 16th, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    Ghost-

    I go with Youkilis.

    :)
    ========

    That would be myu first choice, as well.

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    MTU, you’re preachin’ to the choir. I’m head of the LR fan club and I have a 2010 vodoo Eiland doll I stick pins in ;) .

    Way too much “fixing” of Joba, for my taste went on.

  89. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    I somehow found the courage to visit MLB.com to watch video of Pineda and actually hear the talking heads discuss the trade. I got excited watching Pineda, and then they ran video of Montero hitting and I got depressed again. Very.
    =============

    I share your disappointment. However, I thin that Pineda will ease the blow somewhat.

  90. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    I’m curious to see what happens with Joba when he comes back from his rehab.

  91. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Trisha-

    No one should rightly expect miracles from Pineda right out of the gate.

    I am not trying project anything like that.

    My comment to YT was more a joke than anything else.

    He and I go back and forth alot.

    But you’re right. Many will try to equate Pineda’s performance with Montero’s from the get go.

    I think that would be a mistake.

    This gets decided in the fullness of time.

    Perhaps both sides will be pleased in the end ?

    :)

  92. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Ghost, he’s good but I don’t buy the ease part. Revisiting that swing just confirms it. It was a mistake to turn that thing on.

  93. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    J Al, don’t be too hard on yourself. This one hurt, there is no question. And it seemed to hurt a lot of the fans. Being excited about Pineda and devastated about Montero are not mutually exclusive. It’s where I’m at. The only time I went through something similar was when the Yankees traded Boomer. (That was in the Torre vengeance regime; I think vengeance days are gone). I was sick at heart about that for a long, long time.

    I’d like to think that we’ll have another shot at Montero at some point in the future. It’s my way of getting over the hump, I guess.

  94. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    Ghost/trisha-

    Sorry about the confusion.

    It’s the Alzheimer’s acting up again.

    :)

  95. PhiltheThrill January 16th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    Gary Sanchez is the real deal. He missed most of ST because of a heart thing, then took some time to get going. Then when he got going he got hurt and shutdown. He wasn’t well long enough to balance his numbers, but he managed to match Montero’s low A homer production, in the same park at the same age in TWO HUNDRED FEWER AB’s. That’s a Yankee Bat.

    He’s a good athlete and they think he’ll be a good defender.

  96. jacksquat January 16th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    Pineda in 2011 All-Star game:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....llstar2011

    That slider is nasty.

  97. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    trisha, if they’re to have another shot at him, we’d better stop hearing what an “attitude” problem he has from houseplants like Sweeney Murti and “unnamed” sources. That kind of stuff gets back to a guy. I’d hate to see Jesus forsake a second tour with us and wind up hitting the ball out to right-center as a member of the Boston Red Sox. The Yankees need to be graceful now, and STFU, instead of trying to massage public perception. Move along, that’s what they need to do.

  98. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    Torre was right about Wells. Anybody that brags about trhowing a perfect game hung over is a first-class schmuck.

  99. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    MTU – I’m already pleased. I think Yankee fans will be also. And I think Mariner fans will be dancing in the street.

    I’m with Ghost. I think Montero will adjust a lot more quickly and be the same monster he has been. Montero has the luxury of going from the AL East to the AL West, where seldom is heard a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day. Pineda comes from that milieu to the hellacious AL East. He’s got more of an adjustment coming.

  100. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    Anyone who can throw a perfect game hung over is my hero.

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    Yes, the slider’s “diabolical” as the guy kept saying in that video. I was excited watching it. That’s when I should have hit the “off” button.

  102. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    Rothschild is a very good pitching coach and Pineda is not a finished product. The raw talent is there – he’s already very good, so there is no reason he can’t get better. His delivery doesn’t have to necessarily remain what it is…….I just see so much negativity about this kid that I’m rooting for him doubly hard.

  103. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Phil, he also has an attitude problem – the Yankees sat him for a few games, I believe. I don’t like that at all………I hope it’s just immaturity, but we’ll see.

  104. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Something highly unusual is happening in my neck of the woods.

    IT’S SNOWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    First gol darn snow we’ve had this winter. I was starting to think we weren’t going to get any.

    :) :) :)

    Wreathed in smiles, I am. I love me my snow!

  105. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:13 pm

    I just hope that Yankee fans aren’t too tough on Pineda and expect too much from him next year. I bet that many of the folks that wanted and are pleased with this trade will be the first ones to turn on him.

  106. MTU January 16th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Trisha-

    That may be true but remember a park like Safeco tends to sap some of the power.

    I wish both of them well.

    In my world view I do not pit one against the other.

    That is for others to do.

    The truth is no one really knows how this will all turn out.

    It’s all calculated guess work. Nothing more.

    I hope they both reach their cielings, please alot of fans, and make a ton of money.

    Most of all I hope they both find peace and happiness playing a kid’s game.

    Time for bed.

    have a good night.

    :)

  107. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    “Rothschild is a very good pitching coach and Pineda is not a finished product. The raw talent is there – he’s already very good, so there is no reason he can’t get better. His delivery doesn’t have to necessarily remain what it is…….I just see so much negativity about this kid that I’m rooting for him doubly hard”

    I’m with you Bets. It’s like people are actually looking for him to fail! It’s not going to happen, much to their disappontment.

    It also looks like Phil still has a role on this team. I’m still in his corner. I’m like the captain of a ship. I will be the last one off every time!

    :)

  108. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    See the thing about Montero is that he doesn’t have to be hitting home runs. He’s got power but more than that he’s a hitting machine! So he will do exactly what they need him to do in Safeco. They’re going to love the kid.

  109. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    He’s a good athlete and they think he’ll be a good defender.
    ///

    I certainly thought so when I saw him for 3 games in Lakewood.

  110. blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    There isn’t a lot to be negative about Pineda other than he needs to refine another pitch….he’s just a little older than Banuelos and he’s younger than Betances and already has 170+ big league innings under his belt….I love both pieces they acquired….doesn’t mean I have to like what they gave up. Keep coming back to the question of how many 23 year olds can throw 97 mph with a plus slider both for strikes? Not many

  111. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    “I just hope that Yankee fans aren’t too tough on Pineda and expect too much from him next year. I bet that many of the folks that wanted and are pleased with this trade will be the first ones to turn on him.”

    That’s why I have been cautioning patience and saying expectations should be tempered – in fairness to Pineda.

    And of course the more people who may turn on him, the more I’ll be in his corner. If he’s in pinstripes, he’s worth rooting for. Every step of the way.

    GO YANKEES!

    :)

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    Wreathed in smiles, I am.
    ///

    touch of the poet :D .

    trisha, who’s looking for Pineda to fail? Who in here, for instance?

  113. blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    Kuroda should help take some pressure off Pineda….

  114. kd January 16th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    now all hey have to do is sign prince to a pillow contract and trade aj

  115. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    Phil, I have seen Sanchez hit; he is another very special bat (he and Montero undoubtedly the two best bats I have seen of all our minor leaguers), and has a better body to catcher than Montero does. (Although I still think Montero can be a serviceable catcher.) I just hope with our new catching model in place, we don’t forget what a “Yankee bat” at the C position is. I am excited to see Sanchez progress.

    And I am not worried about any attitude problem. Kid’s just getting acclimated to long season, facing some adversity and life generally.

  116. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    blake – I think Pineda’s going to be amazing. I’m not going to be upset however if it takes him a period of time to get there. I remember thinking how lucky the Mariners were to have him along with King Felix. We definitely got a potential prize.

  117. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    Trish, I have no idea what Phil’s role will be or if he even has one. I’m not sure he’ll be with the team the whole year and I just don’t know that he’s going to start. He’s not exactly cheap for what he is….and if the Yankees are trying to save money and they can’t dump AJ, I can see him being traded. I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

    I get being upset about Montero being traded, but I do think people are being extremely harsh on Pineda. I’m going to assume based on comments that if Montero had remained and not gotten off to a HOF start, people would have been ok with that. Unfortunately, Pineda has to pitch like an ace ASAP or else fans are going to declare this deal a bust.

  118. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    “trisha, who’s looking for Pineda to fail? Who in here, for instance?”

    Will not mention any names but there have been a few posters who are definitely not sold on Pineda.

  119. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    Sure, Montero would have benefitted even more from Yankee Stadium. Even more of a head scratcher that he was dealt, considering the damage he would have done here.

    Well.

  120. kd January 16th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    i think lost in all of the montero sadness is the kuroda signing. this guy is simply solid. he’s a great addition to the team.

    if he goes out and pitches like he can, say 18-8 3.9 era 200 innings, it’s the best 1 year deal in the al east.

    i simply cannot believe they got him for that deal.

  121. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    Blake, no there is not a lot to be negative with Pineda – or so you’d think. Oh well – he’s here and he’s going to remain here, hopefully. So for those who are concerned about his ability or his health or whatever, let’s hope their concerns are unfounded. For those who have more positive feelings, let’s hope our faith goes rewarded. I don’t like giving up Montero either, that’s why I’m torn about it.

  122. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    trisha, I saw two posts, both with qualifiers, regarding his delivery. Neither of which I would qualify as “wanting him to fail.”

    I have, however, seen many posts over a long period of time by a very intimate group of one, predicting failure at every turn for Phil Hughes. ;) .

  123. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Yankeefem, I hope you’re right. I hope Sanchez has a great year next year – and improves defensively, which is vital.

  124. PhiltheThrill January 16th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Betsy,

    The Yanks sit kids for all sorts of things. The Sanchez thing got publicized which is unusual. Remember, he’s a teenager and he was struggling for the first time in his life. He got frustrated. He’s a competitor and a perfectionist. In the system, they feel like they are raising kids as well as training ballplayers.

    A lot more of them get disciplined than we ever hear about.

  125. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Well, Yankee fans are about to learn what it is going to take to develop a young pitcher. They certainly haven’t learned that up until this point. re: the total lack of patience that has been shown for any and all of our homegrown pitching prospects.

  126. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    kd January 16th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    i think lost in all of the montero sadness is the kuroda signing. this guy is simply solid. he’s a great addition to the team.

    if he goes out and pitches like he can, say 18-8 3.9 era 200 innings, it’s the best 1 year deal in the al east.

    i simply cannot believe they got him for that deal.

    =======

    That really was a steal. And signing Kuroda is a source of comfort folowing the Montero trade.

  127. Bret The Hitman January 16th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    Do the Yankees have the best young pitching in the game?

    Pineda
    Nova
    Hughes
    Banuelos
    Betances
    Campos
    DePaula

  128. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Well, Yankee fans are about to learn what it is going to take to develop a young pitcher. They certainly haven’t learned that up until this point. re: the total lack of patience that has been shown for any and all of our homegrown pitching prospects.
    ============

    I think that bringing Rothschild signaled a change in emphasis for the Yankees on the pitcher development issue.

  129. Tar January 16th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    “trisha, who’s looking for Pineda to fail? Who in here, for instance?”

    OK I will admit it, I am hoping that Pineda fails.

    Oh yeah… it’s the physical I’m talking about.

  130. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    Betsy, Sanchez will have a great year. He was absolutely raking at the end of last season, and his catching will improve. Just has to stay healthy.

  131. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    Betsy, fans tend to be butt heads so it will not surprise me. Cripes, this is a forum that wanted Cano traded for God sake! You know that patience is not a lohud hallmark. And NY fans are not noted for being kind and gentle. (I still haven’t forgiven them for what they did to LaTroy Hawkins!) This forum was also calling for Granderson to be offed when he had the audacity to have a bad few months.

    I think it’s pathetically jerky and not the epitome of loyal!

    About Phil. I took today’s news as good news. Again remember, we are talking 7 potential starters. We don’t know Nova’s situation at this point in time. And Cashman will not go north with fewer than 6 starters. His mantra is that you never have enough pitching. Personally I’d like to see Phil in the rotation and Kuroda in the pen (I’m definitely not sold on him, though of course I will be rooting for him.) But we certainly do have a logjam! I want Freddy in the rotation too. I cannot imagine AJ being the odd man out with the money they are payiing him. Maybe they are working behind the scenes to trade him. But on the other hand, is it possible to have 2 spot starters in the pen?

    I think you need the wisdom of Solomon to begin to figure this one out! Maybe nothing will be figured out until ST.

  132. blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    Betsy,

    It’s done now…..might as well focus on the good with what they got in return I guess.

    KD,

    Wouldn’t surprise me if Kuroda actually out pitched Pineda next year…..he’s very solid and was a great pickup

  133. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    Phil, maybe they publicized it to teach him a lesson? If so, I’m ok with that. I admit I have a hard time being patient when these kids start to act out – I tend to take the attitude that they aren’t 10 year olds, they are professionals, and should act like young adults. Sanchez is very young, though, younger than most, so I’ll try and ease up on him. If he’s learning the right way to behave through his mistakes, it will be worth it.

  134. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    Ghost, here’s hoping. The fans unfortunately will lag behind, especially at the Stadium, but that is par for the course.

  135. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    Tar January 16th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    “trisha, who’s looking for Pineda to fail? Who in here, for instance?”

    OK I will admit it, I am hoping that Pineda fails.

    Oh yeah… it’s the physical I’m talking about.
    ===============

    I’m also hoping that something happens to make this deal fall through before it is consummated.

  136. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    Tar January 16th, 2012 at 11:27 pm
    “trisha, who’s looking for Pineda to fail? Who in here, for instance?”

    OK I will admit it, I am hoping that Pineda fails.

    Oh yeah… it’s the physical I’m talking about.
    ////

    LMAO. CMAO?

  137. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    Yes, getting Kuroda was a coup. I wanted him all along. Just be healthy, Hiroki.

  138. blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    Do the Yankees have the best young pitching in the game?”

    It’s top 5 I’d say now in that regard….several teams have a lot of good young pitching (Braves, Dbacks, Mariners, Rays…..tough to say who the best is..

  139. Best To Ever Do It January 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    No that would be the Rays

  140. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    Yankeefem, the problem is that this is a win now city and a win now team. Fans don’t have any business complaining about not developing youngsters if they start whining about the youngsters not performing like seasoned veterans.

  141. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Ghost, Tar, don’t watch that MLB.com video. Or at least, turn it off once the reel turns from Pineda pitching to Montero hitting, if you know what’s good for you.

  142. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Tar, Ghost, lol. I bet you are wishing David Adams was in the deal right about now. ;)

  143. Benny Blanco January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    The yankees have a ton of young pitching!!!!

  144. PhiltheThrill January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Betsy,

    He turned pro when he was 16. He gave up a lot of childhood, and when that happens, there’s a pretty good chance there’s gonna be some immaturity. I wouldn’t worry about it. Dante Bichette will get him straightened out in ST.

  145. kd January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    you have to consider kuroda as the number 2

    take pressure off of pineda, maybe even put him number 4 after nova

    just let him go out there and improve with each start

    cc
    kuroda
    nova
    pineda
    hughes

  146. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    I don’t believe in Kuroda a whit. Make no mistakes about that. However, I support him fully, the same way I supported Javy vasquez, whom I also did not believe in a whit.

    ******************

    J Al – is “looking for” the same as “hoping for”? To me it is not. I did not say that I thought anyone one was hoping for Pineda to fail, though it wouldn’t surprise me. But I stay with my statement that I believe there are posters expecting him to fail. And that’s their right, obviously.

    ****************

    Tar, I definitely was not talking about you. Believe me, there are many of us sharing your pain. I have to compartmentalize it because if I don’t, it will eat me up.

  147. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    Phil, maybe they publicized it to teach him a lesson? If so, I’m ok with that.

    =================

    That would be pointless, and not very wise to take that public. These kinds of things need to happen behind closed doors. He’s a teenager, for goodness sake! Being reprimanded is embarrassing enough without piling public humiliation on top of it. Some wannabe schmuck probably leaked the story.

  148. Best To Ever Do It January 16th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    There isn’t a lot to be negative about Pineda other than he needs to refine another pit
    —————————-

    The mechanics are a little bit of a concern.

  149. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Betsy, well you and I know that but people at the Stadium unfortunately don’t. I don’t have fingers on my hands to count how many of our kids have been booed there over the past few years. With Nova’s outing last year in the ALDS the most recent act of idiocy.

  150. blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Dante
    Williams
    Santana
    Sanchez
    Soler?

  151. Benny Blanco January 16th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm
    Yankeefem, the problem is that this is a win now city and a win now team. Fans don’t have any business complaining about not developing youngsters if they start whining about the youngsters not performing like seasoned veterans.====

    Betsy, you are 10000 percent right..Its a damn shame too…. I Don’t want to label pineda as a number 2,3 4, or 5. I just want him to pitch to his potential.

  152. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Great hitters need a certain degree of arrogance. Let’s hope the GI Joe mentality doesn’t try to make every young player a eunuch or worse, an ex-Yankee.

  153. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    kd January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    you have to consider kuroda as the number 2

    take pressure off of pineda, maybe even put him number 4 after nova

    just let him go out there and improve with each start

    cc
    kuroda
    nova
    pineda
    hughes
    =================

    I just don’t see what they’re going to do with AJ. They almost have to move him or Hughes at this point…

  154. Tar January 16th, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    “Tar, Ghost, lol. I bet you are wishing David Adams was in the deal right about now.”

    Maybe we can all chip in and hire Vinnie and Vito to do a little temporary leg work. :wink:

    I kid I kid

  155. Best To Ever Do It January 16th, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    kd January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    you have to consider kuroda as the number 2

    take pressure off of pineda, maybe even put him number 4 after nova

    just let him go out there and improve with each start

    cc
    kuroda
    nova
    pineda
    hughes

    ———————–

    The thing is a number of fans aren’t going to see it that way.

  156. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    Not that anybody cares, but Kuroda goes right to the pen if I have any say in it.

    I don’t?

    Drat!

    blake, you definitely live on the east coast, yes? Because I definitely sniff a west-coast bias when it comes to kuroda, though it’s understandable since those people would have more opportunity to see him play and know more about him.

    I have an AL bias, meaning I don’t cotton to 37-year-old NL pitchers in the weakest division in the NL coming to Yankee Stadium. But apparently the Yankees do, so I will once again trust them and root for the guy. But I don’t predict good things. I will gladly and dizzily be wrong, of course.

  157. kd January 16th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    blake,

    add ramon flores as well

  158. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    PhiltheThrill January 16th, 2012 at 11:32 pm
    Betsy,

    He turned pro when he was 16. He gave up a lot of childhood, and when that happens, there’s a pretty good chance there’s gonna be some immaturity. I wouldn’t worry about it. Dante Bichette will get him straightened out in ST.
    ///

    People also forget these IFA bonus babies are living in a foreign country, away from their families, having to speak a second language when they’re out of the insular world of the ballpark. Expecting them to be little soldiers is something of a joke.

  159. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Tar January 16th, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    “Tar, Ghost, lol. I bet you are wishing David Adams was in the deal right about now.”

    Maybe we can all chip in and hire Vinnie and Vito to do a little temporary leg work. :wink:

    I kid I kid
    =========

    Giliooly?

  160. blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Trisha,

    Kuroda isn’t a soft tosser…..he throws pretty hard and has a nasty split…..his stuff should play in the AL east fine…..era will be higher…..but his record will be better

  161. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    De Paula doesn’t count – or I wouldn’t anyway. He may never get his visa – that’s what it seems like. In the meantime, he’s lost 2 years (I think) of very valuable time.

    Trish, I’m not sure Solomon could figure the last spot in the rotation out – remember that his solution was to split a baby in half. I’m pretty sure that’s out of the question, lol. I’m not a fan of NL pitchers coming to the AL, esp. the East, so IMO, Kuroda is no sure thing – but he’s supposed to be good, so I’m going to assume he’ll at least be ok. I adore Freddy – he really has to be the 5th starter as far as I’m concerned. I want Phil to have a phenomenal camp and force the Yankees hand. AJ? I like him personally….but he’s so awful. It’s hard to believe that he had a worse ERA last year than in 2010.

    Blake, it’s the only thing to do because otherwise it will drive you crazy. I want to be happy because I’m very happy to have Pineda, but I do regret having to trade Montero. It sucks to get emotionally attached to young players because they either disappoint you or are traded or leave……. The difference between 2007 when Phil was talked about in the Santana deal and now is this came COMPLETELY out of the blue. Had the Santana deal happened, at least I would have been prepared. This Montero deal was like a punch in the stomach – whether you like it or not.

  162. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    “I Don’t want to label pineda as a number 2,3 4, or 5. I just want him to pitch to his potential.”

    A-FLIPPIN’-MEN!!!

    I’m with you Carlo. How ridiculous to label him anything! We have not an idea in the world of how he is going to start out over here!

  163. Bret The Hitman January 16th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    Dante
    Williams
    Santana
    Sanchez
    Nunez
    Romine
    Soler?

  164. blake January 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Night all

  165. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    anybody know how cespedas has been doing since his intitial 3K performance?

  166. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    many of our kids have been booed there over the past few years. With Nova’s outing last year in the ALDS the most recent act of idiocy.
    ///

    I’d forgotten this. He was booed. That’s a disgrace. Unfortunately, some low lifes attend these games.

  167. m January 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    People were wondering why Seatless would trade away such an intriguing pitcher. A couple of you might have hit on it. Must be his mechanics.

    Seriously, though. I’m not expecting everyone to be on love with Pineda right off the bat. Or even warm up to him at all. But let’s see what he looks like this season before making judgements. Out if baseball in five years, randy l? Do you believe that or are you just stirrin’ it up?

  168. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Good one, blake.

  169. m January 16th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    That should be “Seattle”. Sorry, Rosy.

  170. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    blake, Kuroda was relatively uneven for the Dodgers last season. And that’s a stinko division!

    I’m a show-me person when I need to be shown. If I have any skepticism, it doesn’t get erased until it does. And I generally do not have skepticism. So when I do, I tend to pay attention to it.

    I will hope that you have it right and I have it wrong.

    I STILL WANT HIM IN THE PEN THOUGH!

    :)

  171. Bret The Hitman January 16th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    SEA was in a position where they had to acquire offense. That’s why they had to trade Pineda. Without him (or Felix) they weren’t getting a big bat.

  172. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    Ghost, exactly how I see the order. I had Pineda slotted in 4th:

    cc
    kuroda
    nova
    pineda
    hughes

  173. Ghostwriter January 16th, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    many of our kids have been booed there over the past few years. With Nova’s outing last year in the ALDS the most recent act of idiocy.
    ///

    I’d forgotten this. He was booed. That’s a disgrace. Unfortunately, some low lifes attend these games.
    ========

    They pay their money; it’s their right (not that it’s right, mind you). The thing that I most like about Nova s that he’s a bulldog, and that kind of stuff doesn’t seem to phase him. He’s got guts, and they can’t teach that… (This , btw, is why it drives me nuts when somebody claims that he’s peaked, based on little more than one year in the big leagues. :roll:

  174. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    Ys, 3 GO and a LD out last game.

  175. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    “I’m not a fan of NL pitchers coming to the AL, esp. the East, so IMO, Kuroda is no sure thing – but he’s supposed to be good, so I’m going to assume he’ll at least be ok. I adore Freddy – he really has to be the 5th starter as far as I’m concerned.”

    Absolute bible!

    “This Montero deal was like a punch in the stomach – whether you like it or not.”

    Absolute bible.

    :( :( :(

  176. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    mantle was booed, mattingly was booed, reggie was booed (all the time), jeter was booed, arod was booed (all the time). much better players than nova have been booed.

  177. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    m, I don’t know if it is his mechanics. Mariners are stacked with pitchers.

    Trisha, I am east coast and Kuroda’s stuff/peripherals would play anywhere.

  178. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Phil, 16? That’s soo young – too young; they shouldn’t let kids turn pro at that age. Then again, sometimes kids do it to support their families who are often poor – I wouldn’t want to take that choice away from them.

    Ghost, it depends on what it was about. If it was for something relatively minor, then yes, it should have been kept quiet. It’s been so long now that I forget…….but regardless, hopefully Sanchez has grown up a bit and has a monster year next year.

    Yankeefem, these same fans booed Jeter and Mo in the not too distant past – I don’t think that highly in general of Yankee fans.

    Benny, assuming Kuroda is ok, I’d try and ease Pineda into NY by having him be the #4 starter. Kuroda is a pro – unless he’s Javy, he’ll be ok. Nova may or may not be as good, but he should be solid. If they are going to work on some things with Pineda, he shouldn’t be expected to be the #2 behind CC

    Blake, I’d want to see the Yankees be more successful with their young pitching before I compare them to the other teams on that list.

  179. PhiltheThrill January 16th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    I think DePaula is gonna get his visa this year.

  180. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    thanks yf, i dont expect his winter league play to change the bidding for him. marlins seem like they are going all-in on him. theres supposed to be alot of interest from the cubs.

  181. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    Trisha, I have been reading here now for months how Betances should be a throw-away in any trade because he’s doomed to be a reliever – this from people who haven’t seen him pitch much.

    As someone who has, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that the only thing that might keep him from starting would be injury. It’s interesting how the prospects, even the high-end ones, are fair game here if they’re Yankee prospects.

  182. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    PhiltheThrill January 16th, 2012 at 11:48 pm
    I think DePaula is gonna get his visa this year.
    ////

    Is that you, Estragon?

  183. Betsy January 16th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    Trish – or more like cold water being thrown on you; it was a complete shock. I remember getting up one morning all happy as usual and then reading that Alex had been caught using steroids. It was all so surreal – same thing when I found out that Clemens had been traded here.

  184. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:50 pm

    Ys Guy, yes I lived through the Alex booing game in and game out. It was excruciating to be at those games. Those people were merciless. All wrong, but booing kids is really reprehensible. Are you going to boo Nova after the season he just gave you? Wang after two years of great pitching, especially when he is coming back injured? etc. etc. Well, they booed Mo (and Jeter), so… it is what it is.

  185. m January 16th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    YF,

    Sorry. That was a joke. Yesterday, it was that he had two pitches. Today, it’s his mechanics. What will it be tomorrow?

    Pineda is a good pitcher, but how does he do it with these fatal flaws? Maybe we can solve the mystery this season.

  186. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm
    mantle was booed, mattingly was booed, reggie was booed (all the time), jeter was booed, arod was booed (all the time). much better players than nova have been booed.
    //

    The new guy is always booed. Tino was booed for following Matthingly, Mantle for following Joe D, and then Maris was booed and resented. Chamberlain has been brutally booed at the Stadium, while beet-face Eiland got off scott free for any culpability in screwing him up.

  187. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    Newman thinks Depaula will get the visa, so… here’s hoping. I am dying to see him pitch.

    ys, I don’t either. Also Cespedes hadn’t played in live games since the Cuban league playoffs in April. So, have to cut him some slack. At least he is starting to make contact.

  188. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    Ghost, agree on Nova. Love the kid.

  189. exiledintampa January 16th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    My take is, if he’s this good with only two pitches and mechanical flaws just think how good he’ll be with Rothschild’s help in cleaning up his mechanics and guys like CC. helping with his secondary pitches. After all, what older pitchers did he have for advise? A 25 year old Felix?

  190. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    i dont boo our guys (well, ed whitson…) but players have to get used to it here, it happens to all of ‘em.

  191. m January 16th, 2012 at 11:56 pm

    Sad. Looking at the comments in an espn article:

    “maybe the yankees can invent a new position? The DF? designated fielder, so that nunez wont have to ever touch a glove?”

    Funny, but sad.

  192. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    m, pitching is a strange beast; sometimes a pitcher’s flaws can also be that pitcher’s special genius. Hopefully, the violent mechanics aren’t an issue.

  193. exiledintampa January 16th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    Also Doc Gooden had the same inverted “W” motion and didn’t do half bad with it.

  194. jacksquat January 16th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    It’s not about labeling Pineda, it’s about not putting too much pressure on him. The matchups will get all mixed up through the season, but I would not start him out slotted right behind CC, possibly too much pressure. I’d put him in the 3 slot. Put Kuroda #2, he’s a veteran and can handle it.

  195. Ys Guy January 16th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    i remember seeing pineda the first time on tv and being really really impressed. then i saw him in the ASG and i was even more impressed. when i heard we traded for him i was psyched. 95+ with control at 22 is a real rarity. his ceiling is as an ace. no matter who you traded, that’s a huge takeback. and most people around the game seem to think the yankees made a great trade. time will tell.

  196. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    I’ll take a 25 year old Felix if and word is he was teaching Pineda the changeup, So… just keep at it over here. At least it had a positive run value if only by 0.5…

  197. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    Who’s Estragon?

  198. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:01 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2012 at 11:57 pm
    m, pitching is a strange beast; sometimes a pitcher’s flaws can also be that pitcher’s special genius. Hopefully, the violent mechanics aren’t an issue.
    ///

    fine line, right? I think a good PC needs to be like a good doctor: primum non nocere.

  199. m January 17th, 2012 at 12:01 am

    YF,

    I wouldn’t fiddle with it too much. If it works, it works. His control is good, you don’t want to mess that up.

  200. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:00 am
    Who’s Estragon?
    ///

    Sorry, Phil. It’s a reference to one of the characters in Beckett’s Waiting for Godot. We’ve just been waiting and waiting and waiting for this special kid to be in the system. I’ll throw a coming out party for him when it finally happens.

  201. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:03 am

    I’m wondering if bigger pitchers like CC and Pineda are a little less likely to get arm injuries.

  202. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    J.Alfred,

    I know the play. I thought Estragon had been a poster in my absence.

  203. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    Pruf, it really is like waiting for Godot. Been hearing about him since 2008, and it is almost 14 months to the day that we signed him. Ugh.

  204. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    That’s the conventional wisdom, I guess.

    I’m no kinesiologist, but I can’t help but wonder if trying to wean Joba away from being “armsy” caused him more problems and put him at greater risk for injury. Aldred seemed to understand how to help him, and never got a second chance with him.

  205. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    jack, no way Yanks slot Pineda in the #2 slot. I’d say 4 initially. But we say see.

  206. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    *shall* see

  207. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:04 am
    J.Alfred,

    I know the play. I thought Estragon had been a poster in my absence.
    ///

    Great username. :D

  208. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    Phil, have you gotten a chance to see Sanchez at all? I had planned this year to travel to Charleston, since he’s there as well as so many other kids that interest me, but the Montero deal has me down about these kids ever making it to the Bronx.

  209. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:17 am

    Agree Pineda will be protected by Kuroda behind C. & coul be slotted behind Nova, like you say. No reason to pile on the kid. Hopefully, that stupid comment about the change up will be the last confession out of loose lips.

  210. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:19 am

    Why is Cashman blabbering about the potential failures of the deal? Stand by your deal, dude.

    That Charleston lineup is even better than last year, if that is possible. It is killing me that we have no NY metro area games, no Lakewood, not even Hagarstown, MD. games to go to…

    (GB, how many games do you think you’ll attend?)

    Baseball suddenly seems like a long way off. Time was flying, but now with this trade, I need to see some live baseball games to ground me. I have had this crazy playoff kind of adrenaline ever since the trade.

  211. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:20 am

    last year’s*

  212. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:20 am

    I’ve only seen film of Sanchez. I was gonna head down to Spring Training this year, but now I probably won’t since the Montero trade.

  213. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:21 am

    I don’t think Sanchez will be in Charleston much longer, if they even start him there.

  214. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    Yankeefem, I am mulling over the Charleston trip, but do I want to devote 10 hours of driving down there primarily to watch a kid Joe Girardi may decide has too much insubordination potential?

  215. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    “Trish – or more like cold water being thrown on you; it was a complete shock. I remember getting up one morning all happy as usual and then reading that Alex had been caught using steroids. It was all so surreal – same thing when I found out that Clemens had been traded here.”

    Betsy, we are so on the same page about all of the same things.

    I was driving to CVS around midnight, or close to it, and I had EEI on and they gave a sports update. The first thing they said was that Pineda and Kuroda had been traded to the Yankees. Kuroda I couldn’t care less about but I got an immediate excited feeling about Pineda. But then they said we had traded Montero. I swear to God I couldn’t breathe and then I felt like I was in a state of suspended animation. It’s like it permeated every cell in my body and I couldn’t escape it. By the time I connected with the forum they had known for several hours I think. So I went there just having heard. It was like an out-of-body experience – and not a good one either. Just awful.

  216. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:29 am

    The Charleston team should be fun this year, if guys like Dante, Ravel Santana, Duran, Austin, Bird, Cito, Willams, Gamel and Gumbs are there.

  217. Teary . Francona January 17th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    Seeing the actual intelligent conversation here, I realize how much I miss this place and actually like it. lol

  218. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    YF, you mean like John Smoltz’s peripherals when he went to the Sux and put up an 8+ ERA?

    Sorry I’m not buying. Nobody is going to convince me that a 37-year-old pitcher NL West pitcher who had his ups and downs last season is going to come to the AL East and make a seamless transition, slotting in nicely toward the top of the rotation. It doesn’t even make any sense. And you will never convince me that an NL pitcher comes to the AL camera ready. It just doesn’t happen, let alone one at the age of 37.

  219. Teary . Francona January 17th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    Trish, why do you call it EEI and not WEEI?

  220. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:20 am
    I’ve only seen film of Sanchez. I was gonna head down to Spring Training this year, but now I probably won’t since the Montero trade.
    ///

    I am no longer a Cashman fan. Surely we had enough former catchers in house to work with Jesus. I’d be happy to see Oppenheimer succeed Cashman in the near future and Girardi replaced.

  221. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    My belief is that the rotation will be set up as things shake out in ST. So it’s pointless to pretend me know how will be slotted where. Heck we don’t even know how many will be there for certain.

    I didn’t have my best week last week with Selig being extended, Montero being traded, and the cheating Pats winning. But my yard is now a winter wonderland, and for that I am very happy. Good things will continue to come, I’m sure of it.

    :)

    Night all.

  222. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:35 am

    PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:29 am
    The Charleston team should be fun this year, if guys like Dante, Ravel Santana, Duran, Austin, Bird, Cito, Willams, Gamel and Gumbs are there.
    ///

    It should be a feast. Another kid I became attached to while in Lakewood was Anderson Feliz. He’s a toolsy, long limbed stringbean with enormous raw ability. Doesn’t get much ink, but I sure fell in love.

  223. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:36 am

    Good one, Trish :D

  224. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    “So it’s pointless to pretend me know how will be slotted where.”

    Translation – So it’s pointless to pretend we know who will be slotted where.

    Definitely time to go to bed!

    :)

  225. J. Alfred Prufrock January 17th, 2012 at 12:39 am

    Good night, folks. Think I’ll astral travel to a parallel world where Jesus still wears pinstripes.

  226. Teary . Francona January 17th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    The good thing about Kuroda is that he doesnt walk that many batters. He had a 4 K/BB ratio last year

  227. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:45 am

    Phil, I figure Sanchez will be in Charleston to start for sure. I also think JR will move up before Sanchez does. Sure wouldn’t mind either of them in Trenton. I feel you re: ST.

    Trisha, Kuroda can still pitch though, unlike Smoltz at the time. Look at Kuroda’s numbers. Consistent as always. Only thing I would worry about is that he threw his slider 10% less. Not sure if his neck injury was a factor. Hopefully, he stays healthy.

  228. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 12:45 am

    ‘Night.

  229. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    yankeefeminista,

    I think Sanchez and Murphy might both be in Tampa. If Sanchez had been healthy another week or two, he would have been considered for a promotion. Though they tend to like to keep teenagers at 1 full season level per year.

  230. UnKnown January 17th, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Jonathan Mayo, MLB Senior Writer, says on Clubhouse Confidential that he had a scout tell him that Campos could be ready for the big leagues by 2014. That would be Sweeeet…

  231. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 12:56 am

    Campos would have go from Charleston to the bigs in 2 years. Could happen if he got promoted to Tampa this year, then started next season in Trenton.

  232. kd January 17th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    campos has to be in aa by the end of the season, right?

  233. sammiejohnson January 17th, 2012 at 1:17 am

    “campos has to be in aa by the end of the season, right?”

    It is possible. But remember, he played low A ball last season. If he did get to AA in 2012 I would expect him to probably restart in AA for 2013. If he was absolutely lights out he may be in AAA at the end of 2013. Then, who knows? Ideally, I would not expect to see Campos at NYS before a Sept. call up in 2014.

  234. PhiltheThrill January 17th, 2012 at 1:21 am

    Campos was in short season Low A not full season Low A, right?

  235. sammiejohnson January 17th, 2012 at 1:24 am

    Yes, SS A ball. Everett.

  236. Pat M. January 17th, 2012 at 1:45 am

    I remember sitting at Safeco back in May and watched Pineda pitch against The Yanks and thinking to myself that this kid has a chance to be one of the dominating pitchers of this decade……And the Yanks worked him well that night, but he just attacked every hitter……22 year old rookie facing the mighty NY Yankees and even if he had a case of nerves he didn’t show it …..It did seem as though he was over throwing at times but man what a talent……The throws asprins……

  237. Pat M. January 17th, 2012 at 2:25 am

    He throws asprins….

  238. kd January 17th, 2012 at 2:36 am

    that’s the thing about pineda that really makes me feel better about this deal, he competes. all the reports i’ve read say that he gets after it, much like nova

    some of the past yankee teams have lacked that ‘gamer’ attitude. if the young guys coming in, like nova and pineda, have the paul o’neil warrior mentality, i like where the team is headed

  239. CompassRosy January 17th, 2012 at 3:05 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2012 at 11:12 pm
    Something highly unusual is happening in my neck of the woods.

    IT’S SNOWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Here too, Sis…

    http://tinyurl.com/7y8muwg

  240. bardos January 17th, 2012 at 6:30 am

    The thing about 37 year old pitchers (Kuroda) is that to hang around so long, they have turned into Pitchers with a capital P. Freddy Garcia is an example. Mussina was an example. My hope and theory is that Kuroda will not bomb out in the AL East.

  241. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 7:28 am

    If the Yankees hire away TB’s developmental people I would feel somewhat better about this poorly conceived deal because Pineda is still developing and the Yankees have absolutely sucked at developing starters, while TB, otoh, has excelled.

    But I think the Yankees are too self-satisfied with what they believe is a first-rate decision-making process, even though their need to apparently diss Montero’s attitude via leaks to the media suggests that some of those people are projecting their doubts about the trade on to Montero.

    Apart from that I have seen signs that they have tried to portray Martin as better than he is (the Munson comparison is risible), and taken together with Girardi seemingly wanting a catcher in his own flawed image, the handwriting on the wall has offered signs that Montero was being under appreciated by the Yankees.

    I have defended Cashman on Yankee boards fo 10 years. I was wrong. I will never do it again.

    Having said that, we’re stuck with this sh!t trade, so I hope Pineda becomes a durable high end starter.

  242. Tom in N.J. January 17th, 2012 at 7:33 am

    Jesus paid for Cashman’s sins.

  243. blake January 17th, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Rich! Where you been man?

  244. blake January 17th, 2012 at 7:41 am

    I’ve mentioned stealing Tampa’s development people……double their salaries.

    As far as the trade…..I’ve talked about it for three days and my concerns about the now lack of offensive potential in the upper levels and an aging lineup……I hope the Yanks are right on this and that Pineda does develop into a #1…..and also that the current lineup can hold on until some of the younger kids are ready.

    Side note…..really like what I’ve read about Campos ….hopefully if he’s in the Sally this year I can get a look at him but it sounds like he has big time upside and is another strike thrower

  245. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 7:44 am

    blake

    Just chillin’ ;)

    I hope your young ones are well (the wife too, of course).

  246. Villa Nova-Ya January 17th, 2012 at 7:44 am

    Those stories about Montero came out before the trade, and actually, right after the incident happened.

    To say that the are leaks by the Yankees now to justify the trade is incorrect, I believe.

    I think it is the media, and fans, trying to find justification for a trade that surprised many.

    I think the fact that anyone knew (knows) about any incidents with any players occurring on the minor league level, where players are young, inexperienced in life in general and at times immature is reprehensible, and a result of over-coverage of the minor leagues and prospects.

    They are not allowed to develop in peace. Every high-end prospect is treated like the next coming, and it is not fair. It’s mostly unfair to the player, but it is also unfair to the fans and the organization.

    And I find the constant references to Girardi being some kind of Svengali or worse ridiculous.

    Even if the Yankees’ preference is for more defensively strong catchers, what is exactly wrong with that?

    Again, wish this trade didn’t happen, but my goodness, some of you are demonizing this team in a way that I really can’t understand, because they didn’t do things they way YOU would do them.

    I also recall that before Martin was a Yankee, many here had him on their wish list.

    I also feel pretty badly for Michael Pineda, who other people in baseball seem to think is pretty darn good pitcher. Because he was added as a result of a trade people don’t like, there are people who are already selling him short.

  247. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 7:54 am

    Good morning, and nice to see Rich in NJ

    Totally agree Villa

    It is interesting to me that most of the articles you see think the Yankees got the better end of the deal. Pineda is not a prospect, he pitched a full season of MLB.

    Why is it wrong for Cashman to compare Martin to Munson, yet OK for him to compare Montero to Pujols? Even Thurman’s widow made some of the same comparisons. Nobody thinks he IS Thurman, but he is a gutsy catcher who the pitchers like.

  248. blake January 17th, 2012 at 7:55 am

    Rich,

    Doin well.

    Villa,

    Folks need to treat Pineda as a prospect because that’s really what he is……he just turned 23 years old so that makes him just a year oldest than Montero and younger than Betances is…….younger than Nova also.

    I hate losing Montero but fans have to give this kid time and a chance to grow…..because his upside really is a co-ace to go right beside CC and that’s an incredibly valuable thing as well.

    Hopefully Sanchez takes a jump this year…..maybe gets a taste of AA late

  249. blake January 17th, 2012 at 7:56 am

    “Why is it wrong for Cashman to compare Martin to Munson, yet OK for him to compare Montero to Pujols?”

    The Pujols comment was a very witty joke ;)

  250. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 7:58 am

    “Even if the Yankees’ preference is for more defensively strong catchers, what is exactly wrong with that?”

    The Yankees have a long, storied history of receiving a tremendous positional offensive advantage from their catcher.

    Why would smart people try to re-invent such a successful formula when they gave a cost-controlled Montero there to help offset the likely decline of an aging core?

  251. blake January 17th, 2012 at 7:59 am

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....12812.html

    Jose Campos, rhp Born: July 27, 1992. B-T: R-R. Ht.: 6-4. Wt.: 200. Signed: Venezuela, 2009. Signed by: Emilio Carrasquel/Patrick Guerrero (Mariners). Background: Campos originally tried to join the Cardinals, but the signing never became official because his parents refused to sign the contract. When the Mariners offered slightly more money at $115,000, he signed in January 2009. A cousin of big leaguers Alcides and Kelvim Escobar, Campos led the short-season Northwest League in ERA (2.32) and strikeouts (85) in his 2011 U.S. debut. He went to the Yankees along with Michael Pineda in a January 2012 trade that sent Jesus Montero and Hector Noesi to Seattle. Scouting Report: Campos’ fastball operates at 92-95 mph and has been clocked as high as 98. For a youngster, he has advanced feel for pitching off his fastball and locating it. His heater has deception, angle and life. Just a thrower when he first got to Everett last summer, he really grew as a pitcher. Campos’ hard curveball and his changeup show flashes of becoming plus pitches. They both lack consistency but improved as he cleaned up his delivery midway through the season. Earlier in 2011, he was landing stiff and upright, throwing with just his arm. Now he lands on a softer front leg and gets more extension out front. He shows great poise on the mound and fills the strike zone. The Future: The Yankees targeted Pineda to upgrade their rotation, and Campos gives them a second potential frontline starter down the road. He’ll advance to low Class A this season.

  252. blake January 17th, 2012 at 8:01 am

    “Why would smart people try to re-invent such a successful formula when they gave a cost-controlled Montero there to help offset the likely decline of an aging core?”

    Hopefully because they really really believe in Gary Sanchez….about the only thing I can figure

  253. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 8:03 am

    As for Martin on a wish list, yeah as a tutor and compliment to Montero, never to provide a fantasy to some that Montero could be expendable. That was too nuts to contemplate for sentient people.

  254. blake January 17th, 2012 at 8:07 am

    The Yankees have 4 starters in their system now with front of the rotation potential ….5 potentially if Depaula can get a visa…….if just two of those reach their ceiling then the Yanks will be in business.

    If anything ….this trade will hopefully prevent the Yankees from even considering bringing Banuelos up this year…..id be more aggressive with Betances if he looks like he’s ready because he’s older……but there should be absolutely no reason to rush Manny now……he’s the guy that could go right there behind CC and Pineda in an ideal world as a three headed monster rotation…..with very quality guys behind them also.

  255. Villa Nova-Ya January 17th, 2012 at 8:09 am

    The only thing I can come up with is that the rest of the scouting world, outside of Yankee-ville, who kept on saying that Montero does not profile well as a ML catcher, must have been on to something, and that despite any public reports to the contrary, the Yankees must have had their doubts. Enough doubts so that he was not an untouchable commodity for them.

    And I know some of you will not like the use of the word commodity, but that’s what every player is at the end of the day. (Not saying I like it, or even that it’s right, just that that’s what it is.)

  256. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 8:10 am

    I believe that I’ve located our missing Muppetonian, Erin.

    RobinsonCano Robinson Cano
    Any of you in DR are invited to an event my foundation is having today at Tetelo Vargas Stadium in San Pedro.

  257. Villa Nova-Ya January 17th, 2012 at 8:12 am

    blake -

    Then Montero is also a prospect. He is only 22/23 and has only spent ONE MONTH in the majors. So far, he is STILL potential, not a finished product. And no one knows what he will do over the course of a full season. I don’t believe he has ever had consistent production in the minors. He’s had his slumps.

    And I agree with upstate kate. Why is okay to compare Montero to the greats of the game, at this stage in his career?

  258. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:15 am

    Why should we treat Pineda as a prospect? He’s already had one full very good season in the majors…………

  259. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:16 am

    He should be treated by fans as what he is, a very young pitcher. Fortunately most Yankee fans do not populate message boards and most have not followed Montero, so they won’t have a bias against him and won’t necessarily expect him to be an ace right away. They likely won’t have any patience for him, but that’s because they don’t have patience for anyone, not because they don’t like the trade.

  260. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 8:18 am

    to lighten the mood a bit…
    So have you heard that a company in GA is making pretzels in the shape of Tim Tebow? Only problem is, if you eat them in New England, you choke (my apologies to Jimmy Fallon for stealing his joke)

  261. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 8:19 am

    I refuse to believe that Montero would be worse than Piazza, even if he only caught 50 games a season, but he had ridiculous value as a DH here as well.

    Btw, Posada’s D has been dissed by so-called experts for years, so has Jeter’s

    Really, who cares, Both gace been offense-first great players.

  262. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:19 am

    Good Morning.

    Greetings Rich.

    Welcome back.

    :)

  263. blake January 17th, 2012 at 8:19 am

    “Then Montero is also a prospect. He is only 22/23 and has only spent ONE MONTH in the majors.”

    I agree….never said otherwise. Also he put up pretty consistent numbers throufht the minors. He slumped in the first half of both 2010 and 2011……but mashed pretty much the entire rest of the time.

    Betsy,

    Because he’s still developing…..he’s not a finished product yet and folks need to understand that when forming their expectations.

  264. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:19 am

    And you too Betsy.

    :)

  265. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:20 am

    Villa, what gets me is why it’s assumed Montero will be SUPER HUMAN from the git-go, a sure-fire Hall of Famer in his first season……….yet, if he struggles, people would forgive his struggles (this still applies even though he is not on the team anymore). Pineda, on the other hand, will either be out of baseball in 5 years or struggling to make it as even just a reliever. If he were drafted by the Yankees, people would love him. Because he wasn’t, he’s going to get hurt and it’s likely he won’t ever develop beyond where he is now.

  266. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 8:21 am

    Hi Betsy!

  267. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:22 am

    Kate-

    It looks like the Early Morning crowd is re-constituting itself.

    :)

  268. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 8:22 am

    Thank you, MTU

  269. Mike Ri January 17th, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Guys . .the trade is done ! .. . theres no way to evaluate this trade until both guys mature in the coming years.

    Have fun rotting in Seattle Montero. and welcome aboard Pineda ! …

  270. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Hilarious that the one preaching patience, doesn’t and to her a pitcher is used to make iced tea in.

  271. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Blake, slumping in the first halves of season is not very good, but Montero is forgiven because he’s Montero. Romine slumped 2nd half of 2010, he’s not been thought of as the same since. Heck, Yankee players have slumped for half seasons (or less) and are criticized (rightly so). Montero? Nope – his poor halves have been brushed off.

    I’m more concerned with people thinking Pineda is junk rather than having patience with him. I’m not concerned about the latter because most Yankee fans don’t have this undying attachment to Montero – they will treat Pineda like they treat all young Yankee pitchers. That’s not good, lol, but nor is it exceptional – it will be business as usual for them.

  272. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Rich-

    Now if Doreen, Erica, and SJ would return the circle would be complete.

    :)

  273. Mike Ri January 17th, 2012 at 8:25 am

    sounds harsh . .but i don’t care . .Montero is NO LONGER a Yankee !!! . . . time to move on ! .

  274. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 8:28 am

    Romine slumped 2nd half of 2010, he’s not been thought of as the same since.

    ================================

    He hasn’t hit all that well since.

  275. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:29 am

    Hi MTU, Kate – how are you?

    Look you foolish old man, there is a big difference between Pineda and Phil Hughes and if you can’t see that, then that’s not my problem. I give you credit for one thing – while I was gone, you aimed your daggers at anyone (and that was most everyone, because they have eyes) who dared say ANYTHING negative about Hughes. Are you his lap dog or something? Guess what? A pitcher IS used to make iced tea in- go look it up in the dictionary.

  276. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:29 am

    Dogface, my point is Montero has been quite bad in 2 consecutive first halves of seasons and is forgiven for that when other players have not been.

  277. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    I’m more concerned with people thinking Pineda is junk rather than having patience with him.

    ====================

    Has anyone actually applied the word “junk” to Pineda?

  278. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:30 am

    I’m ready for some baseball !!!!

    Bring it on.

    It’s gonna be great leavin’ the Sux in the dust.

    Bobby V should provide plenty of laughs to go along with the Chicken and beer crew.

    Wait till Maddon figures out that the Yankees can pitch and hit, and that it’s gonna be that way for a Loooooong time.

    He’ll need even more prunes just to ge thru the day.

    And even more whine to go with his cheese.

    I’m looking forward to it.

    :)

  279. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 8:33 am

    Betsy

    No one is really afforded patience in NYC, it’s a tough town, fairly or unfairly.

    I just hope the Yankees have some one who has proven success in teaching change ups.

    If not, they are even stupider than I currently fear.

  280. Mgumpher January 17th, 2012 at 8:33 am

    This trade has killed most of my enthusiasm for the upcoming season. In watching Pineda pitch, he was talented, but man, he doesn’t look all that great, to me, with that delivery of his. He throws almost all arm, and I wouldn’t be surprised that there is a TJ surgery coming for him.

    You watch and compare his pitching to someone like CC and the difference is night and day.

    Given Cashman’s history of pitching evaluations, I have a sick feeling in my stomach over this trade. I see Pineda getting into struggles trying to go up against the East lineups with only two pitches, him throwing harder to try to over come his lack of alternate pitches, and then going on the DL with elbow problems.

    I hope I’m wrong, but while Pineda has some electric looking stuff, I just don’t like the way he throws, don’t enjoy watching him pitch, don’t like the floppy way he walks off the mound, and I just don’t see him being any long term stud.

    The deal is done, and given that Feliciano passed his physical the Yankees gave him prior to signing the contract, I have no faith that the Yankees would pick up anything wrong with either of these pitchers health.

    Given the way the Yankees have been treated by the Mariners GM, and the disparity of what the M’s wanted from the Yankees always being inflated compared to what they got from any other club, this deal has me feeling that it was almost too easy. I wouldn’t be surprised if this great trade ends up being short lived and Pineda needing TJ before the season is half done.

    So, the season is starting in just a few months, and I really find little to get excited about. That will change some, and I will tune in, but I will not watch any games with the M’s, I will not want to see Montero playing for them.

    At least we can watch Martin and Cervelli bat, yippy.

  281. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Dogface, it’s not necessary – go back and read most posts about him. Junk may be an exaggeration, but you get the picture

  282. Rich in NJ January 17th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Let’s find a way to get Prince short-term.

    Later.

  283. Mike Ri January 17th, 2012 at 8:36 am

    Mgumpher—

    Most depressing post ever .

  284. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    hope you dont bust your butt jumping off the bandwagon. plenty of good seats available out in flushing. i’ve felt for a long time that we could use alot more space on the yankees express. this may be just the purge we need.

  285. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Morning LoHudders

    BryanHoch Jeter to receive Lou Gehrig Memorial Award http://wp.me/p1rXvG-8WFS

  286. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 8:39 am

    Dogface, my point is Montero has been quite bad in 2 consecutive first halves of seasons and is forgiven for that when other players have not been

    ================================

    True, although less so last year than his 1st half in Trenton in 2010. I think Montero may have got something of a pass due to the fact that he was usually among the youngest guys in the league he was playing in and he always showed improvement as the season moved forward.

  287. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:39 am

    Y’s-

    Some people need more time to adjust than others.

    ;)

  288. Betsy January 17th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Rich, as I said, Pineda will be treated just like any other young pitcher in NY by most Yankee fans……..How he’s treated on boards and blogs is another story, but we shall see.

    I don’t exactly agree with you about the Yankees, so no need to go into that.

    Hope you are doing well!

  289. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Hi Erin-

    Haven’t seen you around much lately.

    Any chance we could get you’re muppett buddy back ?

    Miss her jokes.

    :)

  290. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    Dogface, it’s not necessary – go back and read most posts about him. Junk may be an exaggeration, but you get the picture
    ===========================

    Nothing wrong with expressing concern over some flaws in his game right now as long as it’s tempered with the acknowledgement that he’s a young pitcher and an unfinished product.

  291. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 8:44 am

    It makes you wonder if the concerns are less about Montero and his catching skills and more about the lack of progression of the young pitchers in the system…more to the point…their health. Almost all have had injury setbacks and stalled that progress.

  292. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Why is okay to compare Montero to the greats of the game, at this stage in his career?

    ———————————

    Because everyone from scouts to rival execs to analysts knows he will hit the question is whether it will be good or great.

  293. Tom in N.J. January 17th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    I’ve read that long toss while using the change up grip & arm action seems to be the simplest way to learn a change up.

    Nobody long tosses any more.

  294. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    adjust? you’re either a yankees fan or you’re a bandwagon fan. normally a few .500 or worse years clears these people out, but the yankees don’t have them anymore so the bandwagon fans never fall off.

    what sux is that instead of just going away they are going to stick around and moan and whine forever and make it less enjoyable for yankees fans.

    i’d never root for another 1968, that was tough enough, but there is an upside even to horrible baseball seasons.

  295. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    :)

    RobinsonCano Back at the park getting a little workout before the big event! Thats my dad in the picture with me http://lockerz.com/s/175300087

  296. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Wanna know what Pineda will become ?

    Just hold on a minute and I’ll grab my projection software.

    Let’s see.

    The Crystal ball is cloudy.

    The Quija board doesn’t say.

    And throwin’ bones was inconclusive.

    Guess we’ll just have to wait.

    Unless I can get over to Greece before it collapses and visit the Oracle at Delphi.

    I better hurry.

    I’ll get back to you Pineda after that.

    ;)

  297. blake January 17th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    “Let’s find a way to get Prince short-term.”

    +5

  298. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 8:50 am

    i went to delphi and the oracle indicated that the red socks suck.

  299. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    Y’s-

    Patience is not your strong suit.

    People come around differently is all I’m sayin’.

    No need to cast them off so quickly.

    I’m fine with the trade but I’m gonna miss Montero’s bat too.

    ;)

  300. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    has Robbie Cano resorted to chasing ambulances, buses and fire engines?

    RobinsonCano Robinson Cano
    I will be donating ambulances and school buses to my home town. Also will be giving away t-shirts and signed … http://m.tmi.me/kJGiS

  301. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    MTU-I doubt it, but if you ever need a Muppet discussion, you just let me know. ;)

  302. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:51 am

    Y’s-

    You didn’t need to to Delphi for that one !

    ;)

  303. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Thanks Erin.

    I like your gossip breaks.

    Change of pace.

    Nice CU you throw.

    Care to teach it ?

    :)

  304. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    edit: go to. sorry.

  305. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    the oracle also told me to buy low on jason heyward…

  306. blake January 17th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    “the oracle also told me to buy low on jason heyward…”

    Man I wish….doubt the Braves would be selling low though.

  307. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Y’s-

    Not available according to my stuff.

    I better re-calibrate.

    :)

  308. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 9:00 am

    there was no internet back then but alot of people i knew really hated trading roberto kelley in ’92.

    they got over it.

  309. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    there was no internet back then but alot of people i knew really hated trading roberto kelley in ’92.

    they got over it.

    ———————————————————————————-

    But he was traded for another hitter. If Montero + was traded for Justin Upton nobody would be having this type of reaction

  310. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    New thread —->

    Y’s. So will many of these people.

    Just might take a little more time than it would for you.

  311. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Good morning everyone. I’m late to the morning party.

    I’m almost there. Who’s this Montero?

    Someone posted earlier about an aging Kuroda. He’s no Garcia and can still bring it with the 92 mph fastball to compliment one of the best and nastiest splitters in the game.

    If the Yankees are really only going to offer 1-2M for a DH, they are not going to get those that actually can play a position also like Pena,, Kotchman. Damon probably won’t come at that price as he wants ABs and already has WS rings. It looks like it might be a reunion with Matsui, who actually hit lefties better than righties last year.

    The other option for DH that might be taking place is trading Burnetts bad contract to a team not on his 10 team NT list for another bad contract. The one that would probably be agreeable to both parties would be Jason Bay for Burnett, and the monies would be close, as long as Bay doesn’t vest for his 2014 option.

  312. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    They got over Kelley and then couldn’t get over #21 being given to somebody else…5 years later.

  313. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Don’t waste your time going to Delphi. You will not find the oracle there. She was so insistent on getting out the news about how absolutely horrendous the Sux team is going to be, she actually showed up at my front door begging me to spread the word. I guess she isn’t as popular as she used to be, what with the advent of eyes, and so she wants the world to know about a sure bet so they will start to go back to her!

    ******************

    Erin, to underscore the fact that I am definitely not a morning person, despite my being up and on the forum right now, I actually looked for you and your dad in the picture you posted of Robby. (Read your post again and you’ll see why.)

    :)

  314. randy l. January 17th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Driving in gridlock on 128 outside Boston
    Haven’t seen one red sox bumper sticker or window sticker
    Last years finish has To be costing the
    red sox some serious money

  315. Cosmo January 17th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    New Post :arrow:

  316. MichiganYankee January 17th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Speaking of ex-Yankees, I just saw that the Giants agreed to a $6MM contract with Melky Crabrera? Melky the Six Million Dollar Man?


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