The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pinch hitting: Hunter Agett

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 17, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Batting second in our Pinch Hitter series is Hunter Agett, a 23-year-old from Williamsburg, VA who admits he didn’t truly grow up a Yankees fan. As he explains it:

“Until I was 19, I was a very atypical guy in that I didn’t like any sports. I was a band geek. A lot of people were telling me that I needed to like at least one sport as it would give a new dynamic for my life. My pastor at that time was a Yankees fan. So in 2008, I threw myself headfirst into the Yankees and learning baseball. It was a little difficult at first, but once I finally got it, it pretty much consumed my life.”

For his post, Hunter wrote about his favorite player in pinstripes, and the overwhelming concern that we might be seeing the final season of an iconic career.

Respected. Graceful. Humble. Mariano Rivera is a man whose accolades need not be listed.

A conversation about the past 20 years of baseball could not be had without mentioning his name or the team he played for. With Andy Pettitte and Jorge Posada retired, our Core Four became the Key Three, and is now the Dynamic Duo.

Next season, we will have our Sole Survivor.

It is with great sadness that I offer the opinion that Mariano will announce his retirement after this season. With this last year remaining on his contract, he will be 42 at the end of the 2012 campaign. It won’t be for lack of ability or a strong loss of a desire to play the game. For years he has said that it gets harder and harder to leave his family for spring training.

I hope I’m wrong. Nothing would make me happier than for me to be wrong about this. For years Mariano has been my favorite player. He is quick to deflect glory to the rest of the team and to God, always staying out of the difficult-to-evade, ever-present, New York City spotlight. On top of that, he is the best at his job. In an age of players having ESPN specials to announce where they are going to be playing, Mo stands among the few that operates with integrity when he has every right to be arrogant.

Yankee fans, I urge you to take in every Mariano-moment this season. Every pitch, every save, every trot in from the bullpen is to be savored like a sip of your favorite beverage.
Of course, this would be incomplete without a look to the future in an attempt to try and figure out what song will be played in the ninth when Enter Sandman is no longer on the setlist.

Will David Robertson continue to strike out players at an incredible rate with a curveball that just takes your breath away? Will Joba Chamberlain bounce back from surgery to become the heir apparent that he was thought to be in 2007? Maybe another kid in the farm system will emerge. Perhaps a free agent signing.
Being that there is no way to predict the future, let’s look at what we know for 2012.

1. Mariano will be playing
2. He will be the closer
3. He will be awesome

Cheers!

Associated Press photo

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482 Responses to “Pinch hitting: Hunter Agett”

  1. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    Good morning everyone. I’m late to the morning party.

    I’m almost there. Who’s this Montero?

    Someone posted earlier about an aging Kuroda. He’s no Garcia and can still bring it with the 92 mph fastball to compliment one of the best and nastiest splitters in the game.

    If the Yankees are really only going to offer 1-2M for a DH, they are not going to get those that actually can play a position also like Pena,, Kotchman. Damon probably won’t come at that price as he wants ABs and already has WS rings. It looks like it might be a reunion with Matsui, who actually hit lefties better than righties last year.

    The other option for DH that might be taking place is trading Burnetts bad contract to a team not on his 10 team NT list for another bad contract. The one that would probably be agreeable to both parties would be Jason Bay for Burnett, and the monies would be close, as long as Bay doesn’t vest for his 2014 option.

  2. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    there was no internet back then but alot of people i knew really hated trading roberto kelley in ’92.

    they got over it.

    ———————————————————————————-

    But he was traded for another hitter. If Montero + was traded for Justin Upton nobody would be having this type of reaction

  3. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Don’t waste your time going to Delphi. You will not find the oracle there. She was so insistent on getting out the news about how absolutely horrendous the Sux team is going to be, she actually showed up at my front door begging me to spread the word. I guess she isn’t as popular as she used to be, what with the advent of eyes, and so she wants the world to know about a sure bet so they will start to go back to her!

    ******************

    Erin, to underscore the fact that I am definitely not a morning person, despite my being up and on the forum right now, I actually looked for you and your dad in the picture you posted of Robby. (Read your post again and you’ll see why.)

  4. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Hunter-from one band geek to another, nice job, although this is way too depressing a topic for first thing in the morning. ;)

  5. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Trisha- :lol:

    That’s too funny. I wish it was, believe me!

  6. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    The Yankees do not go to Delphi but they do consult “The Matrix”.

    ;)

  7. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:10 am

    The Yankees are going to need to be bubble wrapped at Fenway between Padilla and Beckett

  8. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    I am not ready to think this will be Mo’s last year :( Wont he pitch forever?

  9. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    I wouldn’t necessarity count Rivera out after this season. I’d bet on 2013….not so much to push closer to save #700, but, to buy time for the younger relievers like Whitley, Burawa and especially Montgomery to get closer to NY.

  10. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:12 am

    They got over Kelley and then couldn’t get over #21 being given to somebody else…5 years later.

  11. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    GB, don’t remind me of the #21 debacle. It still makes my blood boil! I lost a ton of respect for Paul O’Neill when that happened because instead of trying to defuse the situation, he played right into it.

    Well karma is a witch. His team got further in the playoffs in 2011 than the Yankees did. 2.42 ERA. Not bad at all.

    Amazing that the rocket science Yankee fans at the Stadium thought that booing him intensely for something that had nothing to do with him was going to make him pitch incredibly well. Aholes!

  12. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    His Mo-Ness stands alone.

    Like the Cosmic star that he is he casts light and warmth but other things are dwarfed by his presence.

    And yet, like our Sun, he is always there for us.

    Taken for granted by some.

    Worshipped by others.

    But always providing light and hope.

    :)

  13. pat January 17th, 2012 at 9:14 am

    Funny thing is in a few years, Mo’s youngest who wants him to stay home is going to be wishing he would go away. :wink:

  14. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:17 am

    And thru it all Mo has remained “humble”.

    How rare is that ?

    A superstar who is actually humble.

    :)

  15. j9d January 17th, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Hunter – Nice job!!

  16. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Pat
    Oh so true!!! I returned to college when my son was in 4th grade. He wanted me to wait so we could go together. Now that he actually is in college, he doesn’t feel quite the same ;)

  17. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Mo is the Tim Tebow of the Yankees.

    All the credit to the Man upstairs.

    ;)

  18. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Hunter, great commentary. You know how you feel about Mariano observing him for 4 years. Can you imagine those of us who have watched him since the beginning of his career with the Yanks? I don’t think any other Yankee player is so ingrained in our hearts and our souls.

    Thinking about life without Mariano can bring me to the point of tears, so I don’t do it. I don’t necessarily agree that this will be his last season. As long as he is still pitching well, I don’t think he will give it up. And so I can breathe a little easier thinking of it that way.

    To know Mo is to love him, for all the reasons you’ve stated. I don’t know that I’ve witnessed any other player in the game who is at the top of the charts in both excellence and humility. He definitely is a rare breed, in every way.

    God bless you Mo. And He sure has!

  19. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Speaking of Tebow I wonder what the public’s reaction would be if he was Muslim?

  20. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    “Mo is the Tim Tebow of the Yankees.

    All the credit to the Man upstairs.”

    And everytime I hear him pass on the credit, it fills me to the core.

  21. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:18 am
    Pat
    Oh so true!!! I returned to college when my son was in 4th grade. He wanted me to wait so we could go together. Now that he actually is in college, he doesn’t feel quite the same

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    no 18-20 year old kid wants their mom busting into his dorm room to pick up his dirty clothes and ask where his underwear is when his girl friend is in the room

  22. LGY January 17th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    KURODA

  23. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    Trisha-

    Hard not to feel that way.

    Part of Mo’s greatness.

    Part of what will be his legend.

    ;)

  24. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    I’m also not necessarily convinced that Rivera will retire if he is still dominant.

    Maybe we’ll see Jr. someday in pinstripes with Dad as the bullpen coach.

    Mariano Jr. commits to Quinnipiac
    Posted on Apr 20, 2011 by Matt Eisenberg

    The Rivera name has a history with pinstripes. Now Quinnipiac will have a history with the Rivera name.

    Mariano Rivera Jr., the son of New York Yankees famed closer Mariano Rivera, said in a phone interview Friday he will attend Quinnipiac University in the fall and will try out for the baseball team, attempting to walk on as a pitcher

    http://www.quchronicle.com/201.....uinnipiac/

  25. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    “Speaking of Tebow I wonder what the public’s reaction would be if he was Muslim?”

    Probably very positive if he were playing for Jordan!

    ;)

  26. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    GB
    oh so true :)

  27. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Speaking of Tebow I wonder what the public’s reaction would be if he was Muslim?

    =============================

    As it hasn’t been all that favorable with him a Christian, I assume it would be quite toxic.

  28. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Yea good post. Im still undecided on whether Mo will retire or not…..I think he absolutely could but we will just have to wait and see.

    I don’t think he will be a guy that will accept anything less than the standard he’s set for himself……so whenever he senses that’s starting to slip I think he will walk away……

    whenever it happens…..they’ll never be another like him.

  29. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    “KURODA”

    The Yankees signed him….didn’t you know? ;)

  30. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Trisha-

    No place for the prayer rug in a quarterback’s uni.

    Can’t burn a time out to bring one in either.

    :)

  31. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    “As it hasn’t been all that favorable with him a Christian, I assume it would be quite toxic.”

    Wasn’t he the most popular athlete in the country in a recent poll?

  32. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Gettin close to crunch time in the Darvish talks…..

  33. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    LGY January 17th, 2012 at 9:26 am
    KURODA

    ————-

    Someone hit LGY please – he’s like a stuck record player.

    On another note – you know who would have been perfect for the Yankees now, but he’s already signed….Jim Thome. :-)

  34. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Blake-

    Maybe religion is good at comebacks too !

    :)

  35. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Reaction to Tebow has been incredibly favorable. They said that the Pats – Broncos game got the highest rating in playoff history (something like that, probably excluding the Super Bowl) because of Tebow.

  36. LGY January 17th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    The Yankees signed him….didn’t you know?

    ———-

    Sorry. I haven’t had the chance to express enough excitement over the signing with all the Montero talk.

    Also gotta counteract Trisha hatin on him ;)

  37. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    who cares whether kelley was traded for a hitter instead of a pitcher. if the guy you get in a trade becomes one of the principles on a championship team, it’s a great trade.

  38. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    “Trisha-

    No place for the prayer rug in a quarterback’s uni.

    Can’t burn a time out to bring one in either.”

    LMAO, no disrespect intended!!!!!

  39. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    eventually, as long as there are still closers, there will be another Mariano Rivera. Doesn’t mean that there will never be another spirit or presence like him with the same talent. Nobody ever thought there would be another catcher like Berra or Munson or a pitcher like Ford or Guidry in NY, but, they’ve been pretty close and they have done just as well.

  40. LGY January 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Is it too soon to start NAPOLI?

  41. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:35 am

    CAA Baseball CAA_Baseball
    Dodgers arbitration-eligible All-Star OF Andre Ethier agrees to 1-year contract for $10.95M +

    MLB

  42. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:35 am

    ***ever*** not never

  43. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    How many people watching the Pats-Broncos game watched even as far as the first half? That was a horrible play off game.

  44. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    im actually rooting for mo to retire this year. i want to see him go out on top, not fade and deal with ‘should he still close’ questions.

  45. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Wasn’t he the most popular athlete in the country in a recent poll?

    ===========================

    I guess. Seen a lot of reaction to him both favorable and unfavorable. Seems like a nice guy. One you’d want you daughter to date. Fair or not though, a lot of people get sick of the pro life commericals and praising the Lord for everything from a touchdown pass to his steak not being overcooked.

  46. Benny Blanco January 17th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    question: Is it possible that hughes is so motivated that he outpitches both pineda and nova this year?

  47. exiledintampa January 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Kinda off topic but, did you see where Iran has It’s Morality police removing “Barbie” dolls from toy stores for being un-muslem?

  48. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Given the money the Yankees say they’re willing to spend on a DH – I think it’s more likely that they try to let Jorge Vazquez win the job.

    It almost never happens – but I will agree with something Gammons said last night. The trend now is that unless you have a 30 – 40 hr hitting slugger at DH most manager would rather keep the spot open to rest various players. The Yankees might sign a guy like Matsui, but Gammons expects Eduardo Nunez to actually get more at bats than whomever the “DH” is.

    One last thing on Montero – I’m going to be curious as to how someone that age responds to what’s going to be an extreme change of expectations. He’s going from the Yankees where he was going to DH and hit in the lower third of the lineup to the Mariners where he’s likely going to open behind the plate and batting in the 4 spot between Ackley and Smoak.

  49. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Chip-
    Jim Thome would have fit under the guidelines for a DH-1-2M MAX.

    Thome agreed to a $1.25 million, one-year contract with the Phillies on Saturday, returning to the franchise for a second time. Thome can earn an additional $50,000 if he reaches 175 plate appearances and then another $50,000 at 200, 225, 250 and 275 plate appearances, meaning the contract could reach a maximum of $1.5 million if he achieves all of the incentives, a source told ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick.

  50. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:21 am
    Mo is the Tim Tebow of the Yankees.

    *****************

    Except talent wise, Mo is actually, you know…good. :P

    Sorry Tebow fans.

  51. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    GB
    to me, there HAS never been another pitcher like Ron Guidry!

  52. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    GB-

    No one ever thought anyone would ever replace Joe D until The Mick
    came along.

    I do think that Mo is a one of a kind in the overall sense.

    And records were meant to be broken. And frequently are.

    :)

  53. austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Trisha,

    I agree with you about Hawkins. What unfair and horrid treatment.

    For that matter, Yankee players should not be booed unless the player is not hustling. All players fail. If anyone really thinks booing them makes them improve, they are–let’s just say–inaccurate.

    Kuroda’s fastball averaged 92 last year. He will pitch well, I believe. He does not rely on deception as much as stuff. That translates into any league.

  54. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Oh and on Kuroda – as one who was very much against signing him – I’m actually ok with it (I know you all cared deeply ;-) )

    Kuroda is going to be a mid to back of the rotation pitcher and even if his ERA does go up to 3.5 or 4 leaving Dodger Stadium and the NL West – that’s still fine and it’s in keeping with what they’re paying him.

  55. pat January 17th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Tebow is a lighning rod but before there was Tebowing, there was Bavaro-ing and no one made a big fuss about it then.

    http://blog.ctnews.com/hssport.....4634-F.jpg

  56. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    “question: Is it possible that hughes is so motivated that he outpitches both pineda and nova this year”

    Likely no…..possible….absolutely. im hoping to see a very in shape and motivated Phil Hughes in about a month coming out throwing BB’s and giving the Yankees no choice but to give him a spot in the rotation…….if that happens……the Yankees will be very good

  57. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    LGY – I’m not hatin’ on him anymore than I was hatin’ on Javy Vazquez when the Yankees brought him back. Once he was here, I rooted my heart out for the guy. I’m all about the laundry. I think you know that.

    That said, I’m probably less sold on Kuroda than I was on Vazquez. And you know what Vazquez’s record was, with a much better ERA, better peripherals, and coming over at a much younger age, and playing in a much better division than Kuroda!

    I think the jury will remain out on this one, for me anyway.

  58. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    eventually, as long as there are still closers, there will be another Mariano Rivera.

    ===========================

    You think? I find it hard to imagine one coming along who does so well for as long as he has. Lot of closers have had seasons as good as Rivera’s. Some have had better. But I can’t think of anyone who has been as consistently outstanding for even half of the 16 years that Rivera has.

  59. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    Trader -

    Yup I know. It was more of a matter of pulling LGY’s chain since he was all about getting Thome, but the fact is that given what the Yankees want to spend and what they are looking for from a DH he would have been fantastic for this team.

    With him off the market though I would inquire with the Rockies about sending some low level minor leaguer to them for Jason Giambi. He’s not able to play everyday, but as a part time DH I’m sure his bat would still help.

  60. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    exiledintampa January 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am
    Kinda off topic but, did you see where Iran has It?s Morality police removing ?Barbie? dolls from toy stores for being un-muslem?

    ********************

    Really? Maybe Mattel should come out with a Burka Barbie.

  61. pat January 17th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    Melky avoids arb…. 1/$6M

  62. exiledintampa January 17th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    Wouldn’t it be great if Pineda could pick up the cutter from Mo?

  63. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    If you wait long enough just about everything happens.

    How much time do you all have ?

    :)

  64. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Blake-

    I believe Ethier made around 9M last year. His salary for 2012 is now about the same as Swisher’s and I believe he’s a FA next year. If the Dodgers offered Ethier to the Yankees for Swisher would you rather have him patrolling RF?

    He ate up right handed pitching, had less strikeouts but less power last year.

  65. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Its very rare for a relief pitcher to repeat his delivery like Mo does…..most guys that can repeat like that are starters and that’s probably the biggest reason he’s been so consistent for so long and stayed healthy for so long…..

  66. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    I’d rather Pineda pick up the splitter from freddy or hiroki.

    ;)

  67. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    and hughesy too !

    ;)

  68. PacoDooley January 17th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:32 am
    Gettin close to crunch time in the Darvish talks…..

    ————————————–
    I for one hope that they sign him, but do some for something like $50-60m for 5 years, meaning they pay at least £20m a season for him when you include the posting fee (potentially a huge over payment to an unproven player). I would hope that then takes them out of the running for Fielder (he would be a scary addition down there).

  69. Benny Blanco January 17th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Thanks blake,

    I’m rooting for hughes big time. I feel for him because it seems as though everytime he takes two steps forwards, something happens that pushes him 10 steps backwards.

    My guess is if betances never got hurt his innings amount would not be an issue and he would’ve been able to compete for a spot had not the yankees acquired pineda.

  70. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    I believe Ethier made around 9M last year. His salary for 2012 is now about the same as Swisher’s and I believe he’s a FA next year. If the Dodgers offered Ethier to the Yankees for Swisher would you rather have him patrolling RF?”

    No id rather have Swisher…..better defender and Ethier is terrible against lefties…..but I would love to have Ethier as a platoon DH partner with Jones and to play some outfield occasionally…….if not now perhaps he’d be a trade deadline option for that role if the Dodgers aren’t in contention?

  71. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Blake-

    A Darvish who twirls for the Texans, or a Darvish who whirls away back to Japan ?

    Good question.

  72. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    How many people watching the Pats-Broncos game watched even as far as the first half? That was a horrible play off game

    ================================

    Most of the games this weekend were lousy. Saints/Niners being the notable exception. Ravens/Texans was competitive, but it was really like watching two teams trying see who could be more inept.

  73. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    “I would hope that then takes them out of the running for Fielder (he would be a scary addition down there).”

    Yes…..Id much rather them sign Darvish than Fielder.

  74. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Chip-

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....son-giambi

    Looking at Giambi’s splits that would fit nicely as DH facing righties.

  75. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    “Fair or not though, a lot of people get sick of the pro life commericals and praising the Lord for everything from a touchdown pass to his steak not being overcooked.”

    Yet they can’t get enough of profanity and sexually explicit television and movies.

    What a country!

    *************

    Speaking of which, we have a little “situation” going on here in little Rhody having to do with a prayer mural being removed from one of the high schools because an atheist student decided it offended her. (Truth is that her uncle has an atheist publication called “stop the churches” and her dad is an atheist, and she herself said she didn’t know anything about it until she heard someone else complain.) In any event, she took the school comittee to court, and the judge ruled in her favor.

    You can imagine that there has been quite a furor going on over it with deep division. Anyway, in the course of the whole thing, I discovered that a Gallup Poll taken in the last few years found that 92% of all Americans believe in God and 83% believe God answers prayers. Pretty good (and certainly no affront intended for those who don’t believe in God.) I found it very comforting.

  76. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:38 am
    GB
    to me, there HAS never been another pitcher like Ron Guidry!

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I go further back. For me, it was Whitey Ford and then Mel Stottlemyre. Guidry almost caught them. Pettitte is still lurking in the dark recesses, though. Almost always somebody to replace the age vanquished.

  77. spidanyc January 17th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    After a long weekend and enough time to digest losing Montero, I have now come to the conclusion that the Yankees have a legit #2 starter who is 22 years old, has filthy stuff and is a future #1 type starter or worst case a #2 type starter. With that said, why stop now? I say Cashman should go out and get Garza…….

    Nova and Campos for Garza

  78. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    MTU,

    I think Darvish will ultimately sign….

  79. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    hey, it would be great if cervelli could pick up the cutter from mo, but that’s not what pineda is lacking.

  80. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    I don’t find this 83% believe God answers prayers to be comforting at all. :/

  81. upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Saints/Niners was exciting, so was Giants/GB (at least to me). I kept expecting GB to come back.

  82. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    “Nova and Campos for Garza”

    That’s very interesting.

  83. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:50 am

    Benny, I’m with you on Hughes. I think there are more than several of us who still think he’s going to deliver.

  84. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    go phil!

  85. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Matsusaka got 6/52M guaranteed and 8M in incentives that he will now not achieve.

    Darvish made 6M in Japan last year and that much supposedly in endorsements.

    If he and his agent stick to his guns on a 5 year, not a 6 year contract, I’m guessing he either gets 5/55M guaranteed with other incentives/perks, or he walks/flies back to Japan, where the Nippon team is supposedly offering him some 9M this year.

  86. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Erin January 17th, 2012 at 9:41 am
    exiledintampa January 17th, 2012 at 9:37 am
    Kinda off topic but, did you see where Iran has It?s Morality police removing ?Barbie? dolls from toy stores for being un-muslem?

    ********************

    Really? Maybe Mattel should come out with a Burka Barbie.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Maybe the dolls should have come with elastic wrappings to tape down the offending parts…..along with a sword to decapitate the dolls.

  87. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Blake-

    I hope he costs a ton.

    Anything to help weaken the Rangers fiancially works for me.

    Hamilton will be gone soon too.

    That’s another brick out of the wall.

    Too bad the Rangers have such a solid farm.

    :(

  88. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    “I don’t find this 83% believe God answers prayers to be comforting at all”

    And that’s okay, ID. If you’re convicted in something, it’s fine to be in the minority. Heck that’s happened to me on this forum many times, and I still walk away remain I’m convinced I’ve gotten it right! I think strong belief is a very good thing as long as you’re not hurting anyone else in the process.

  89. Benny Blanco January 17th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    “Nova and Campos for Garza”

    That’s very interesting.

    ====================

    Yes it is but I’d like to see nova flourish as a yankee..

  90. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Benny-

    I think you know how I feel about Hughes this coming season.

    ;)

  91. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Maybe the dolls should have come with elastic wrappings to tape down the offending parts?..along with a sword to decapitate the dolls.

    *************

    :lol:

  92. austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    I am quite confident that Darvish will sign. The Rangers seems confident as well with the main issue being Darvish wants free agency after five years. I can’t see that holding things up.

    The Dallas newspaper believes Prince may be in play even if Darvish does sign. Let’s hope not.

  93. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:55 am

    MTU,

    Yea they are a well ran organization now…..Im untreated to see how Darvish does…..baseball certainly wont lack storylines in 2012.

  94. blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    “The Dallas newspaper believes Prince may be in play even if Darvish does sign. Let’s hope not.”

    Yea that wouldn’t be very good

  95. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    blake January 17th, 2012 at 9:50 am
    “Nova and Campos for Garza”

    That’s very interesting.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    For who? Give up two pitchers for more payroll and closer to free agency for not enough of an upside over what your giving up to make it worth the trade?

  96. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Why would I trade an 18 game winner and Campos for a guy with a bad disposition with a goatee ?

    No thanks.

    :)

  97. stuckey January 17th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    I fully endorse the ‘July 15 Mo Plan’ after this season.

    Tell him to relax in Panama until July 15th, then show up in Tampa on the 16th. Work out for a month and a half, with the last 2 weeks for the Tampa Yanks. Report to the Yankees on Aug. 31st, tune up in September and go into 2 or 3 more Octobers with a fresh arm.

  98. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    The Dallas newspaper believes Prince may be in play even if Darvish does sign. Let’s hope not.

    Every scenario seems to be flying out of Dallas today, as I read that even if they miss on Darvish they may not get Fielder either.

  99. Shame Spencer January 17th, 2012 at 9:58 am

    GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Maybe the dolls should have come with elastic wrappings to tape down the offending parts?..along with a sword to decapitate the dolls.

    —————–

    I think you’re confusing Muslim Barbie with Al-Qaeda Barbie…

  100. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Blake-

    Baseball never lacks for storylines.

    Maybe this year’s edition will include more international news.

    :)

  101. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    I discovered that a Gallup Poll taken in the last few years found that 92% of all Americans believe in God and 83% believe God answers prayers.

    Link pls, no way this is true.

  102. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    The Marlins and the Rangers are like the Federal Reserve.

    They seem to like printing money out of thin air, and no one seems to call them on it.

    :(

  103. stuckey January 17th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    “I think strong belief is a very good thing as long as you’re not hurting anyone else in the process.”

    Unfortunately, strong religious belief is directly responsible for hurting more people than anything else in the history of human civilization.

    I offer that merely as a point of fact.

  104. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Maybe a Gallup pole taken in Alabama… those numbers both seem really, really high.

  105. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    upstate kate January 17th, 2012 at 9:38 am
    GB
    to me, there HAS never been another pitcher like Ron Guidry!
    ————————————–
    His 25-3 record in 1978 at age 27 when he won the CY and finished 2nd in MVP was incredible.

    Has there ever been another lefty in the AL that had that kind of season, since the 60′s?

    GB?

    Whitey Ford was 25-4 in “61″ but his ERA was 3.24 and he was backed by one of the greatest offensive teams, if not the greatest, of all time.

  106. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:01 am

    I’d prefer Texas sign Darvish for a boatload of money and let Fielder go someplace else. A 2 year deal with Milwaukee with 2 player options sounds about right.

  107. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Sudden Sam McDowell.

  108. Mike Ri January 17th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    More Than 9 in 10 Americans Continue to Believe in God

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/147.....e-god.aspx

  109. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    208 ERA+ is crazy for Guidry that year, but I don’t think it even falls in the top 5 pitching seasons. Pedro has 2 of those and RJ might have 2 as well.

  110. austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    GB,

    I traveled to the City in 1964 and saw Stottlemyre pitch and win his first game. 9-3 as I recall. He had a heck of a sinker and great control. Too bad he hurt his arm or he would have been a 200 game winner even with the miserable Yankee teams.

  111. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Anything to help weaken the Rangers fiancially works for me

    ===========================

    Losing. That’s what will weaken the Rangers financially.

  112. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Sorry Patrick, but I don’t like being challenged and told no way something is true. Your head is up your butt because it is true.

    Now if you try a more courteous approach with less arrogance, I will be happy to find a link for you. Otherwise, find it yourself.

  113. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Everything great thing is subject to human corruption.

    Blame the Human not the thing.

    ;)

  114. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    please, you trade nova now and some people on here will be in mourning for the rest of the decade…

  115. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Ha ha ha Patrick. Looks like you got that one totally wrong.

    Thanks Mike. I should have known you’d be on top of the same story!

    ;)

  116. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    “Maybe a Gallup pole taken in Alabama… those numbers both seem really, really high.”

    ;)

  117. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    My 25 man roster:

    Jeter – SS
    Granderson – CF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Swisher – RF
    Chavez – DH
    Martin – C
    Gardner – LF

    Bench: Cervelli, Nunez, Jones, Maxwell

    Rotation:
    CC
    Nova
    Pineda
    Kuroda
    Hughes

    Pen: RHP – Garcia, Mo, Robertson, Soriano, Wade
    LHP – Okajima, Logan

  118. Mike Ri January 17th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    no problem trisha-

  119. blake January 17th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    “For who? Give up two pitchers for more payroll and closer to free agency for not enough of an upside over what your giving up to make it worth the trade”

    I think its interesting from the Yankees POV. Sabathia, Garza, Kuroda, Pineda, Hughes would be maybe the best 1-5 staff in the league and you keep both Banuelos and Betances…..I don’t know if id do it but id think about it.

  120. Tom in N.J. January 17th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Interesting article on the Kelly trade from Jack Curry on November 04, 1992:

    It’s funny reading about hot stove machinations from offseasons gone by. Bonds, untouchable prospects, expansion drafts, O’Neill cannot hit lhp…

    The names have changed but the place remains the same

    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11.....038;src=pm

  121. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    When are the politics and sex talk gonna begin.

    I want to set my alarm so I don’t miss it.

    :)

  122. PacoDooley January 17th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Let’s hope that Fielder signs with the Nats today and the Rangers fail to reach agreement with Darvish before the deadline…

  123. Tom in N.J. January 17th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/147.....e-god.aspx

  124. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    trisha,

    You made a strong statement with nothing to back it up. Of course you’ll get called out on it.

    Mike Ri,

    Thanks for the link, that’s pretty interesting. It’s fascinating how much the numbers change based on the wording of the question.

    I don’t see anything in there about % of Americans that believe God answers prayers though. To me that was the more shocking number that trisha posted.

  125. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    I believe only 2 or 3 AL pitchers in ’61 had an ERA under 3.00. Dick Donavon of Washington lead and Bill Stafford of the Yanks were the two I know of….maybe somebody else.

  126. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Stuckey, I did say as long as it didn’t hurt someone else. I offer to you that someone thinking that God does not answer prayer is certainly not hurting anyone else.

  127. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Texas is (in my opinion) going to sign both Darvish and Prince.

    It makes plenty of sense – they have the money (remember they still haven’t spent all the money they earmarked for Cliff Lee and they got a huge tv contract) and after this year they have a lot of free agent questions:

    Napoli
    Hamilton
    Young

    Figure if they have Prince locked up they can let Hamilton go (he’s older and more of a risky investment than Prince) and Young also.

    Moreland becomes a trade chip or they can use him at DH.

  128. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    My only question about Prince in Texas is how that body is going to hold up playing in the Texas heat all season.

  129. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    “You made a strong statement with nothing to back it up. Of course you’ll get called out on it. ”

    I don’t mind getting “called out on it” as you say. I just didn’t like the way you did it, with such self-assurance that turned out to be totally misguided.

    I never mind backing up my statements when I say they came from somewhere else.

  130. m January 17th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Nice post.

    I agree with someone who said yesterday that Hughes could be the closer. But right now it looks like Soriano for a year and then Robertson.

    Didn’t take long, but I found the Pineda Fail Meme of the day.

    Sunday it was 2 Pitch Pineda. Yesterday was Mechanics Fail Pineda. Today it’s TJS Pineda.

  131. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    His 25-3 record in 1978 at age 27 when he won the CY and finished 2nd in MVP was incredible.

    Has there ever been another lefty in the AL that had that kind of season, since the 60?s?

    =================================

    Johnson in 1995 and 1997 are in the conversation (18-2 and 20-4 w/ ERA+ of 193 and 197). Cliff Lee’s 2008 (22-3 168 ERA+) and couple of Santana seasons were noteworthy, but all are exceeded by Guidry’s ’78. Only AL pitcher right or left handed to post better since 1960 was Martinez.

  132. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Chip-

    Who/What did we get for Burnett, who’s not on your 25?

    ID -

    ERA+ was 197 for Randy Johnson when he pitched for the Mariners and went 20-4

  133. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    m-

    I like mine better.

    Pineda Colada.

    Sweet and refreshing. Gets you drunk with talent every time.

    ;)

  134. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Patrick, the information was in the same article Mike linked to.

    “The poll finds Americans in widespread agreement that prayers are heard and responded to — 83% say there is a God who answers prayers, while 9% believe there is a God who does not answer prayers and 5% believe no God exists.”

  135. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 10:02 am
    GB,

    I traveled to the City in 1964 and saw Stottlemyre pitch and win his first game. 9-3 as I recall. He had a heck of a sinker and great control. Too bad he hurt his arm or he would have been a 200 game winner even with the miserable Yankee teams.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Mac, he was an all around outstanding pitcher. He provided innings, wins and until ’74, incredibly dependable. Not sure if he missed any starts, He fielded his position as well as anyone and he could hit and with power. He has never received the recognition from the media or fans for just how outstanding he really was.

    Still the only rookie pitcher to throw a complete game shutout and go 5-5 at the plate. In fact, he’s the only pitcher to ever go 5-5. Had an inside the park grand slam to win a game and 2 homers in a game to win that one. 40 complete game shutouts, all, as you said, with some of the worst teams in Yankee history. His son, Todd was a damned fine pitcher, too.

  136. blake January 17th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    If the Rangers sign Prince then they’ll probably flip Moreland for more pitching help……Moreland + for Wade Davis? Texas getting Prince would be bad.

  137. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Blake-

    Gonna be fun watching the Halos and Rangers bash each others brains in all season.

    :)

  138. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    Has any “lefty” in the AL only, since the 1960′s ever had a better season than Ron Guidry’s 25-3 record in 1978, looking at all stats?

    Randy Johnson was close, but alas no cigar.

  139. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:21 am

    ATHIESTS FOR TEBOW!

    (tebowing now…)

  140. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    they missed the .8% who think jesus montero answers prayers…

  141. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Patrick, the information was in the same article Mike linked to.

    That’s not in the article Mike linked.

  142. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Ys Guy – :)

  143. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Still predicting, and as always subject to intense criticism, before I go. :)

    Fielder, Boras and Lerner hook up again and Fielder signs with the Nats on a 6-7 year deal with an opt out after 3.

    Darvish signs with the Rangers before 5PM EST tomorrow for 5/55M plus perks or he walks/flies back to Japan. Rangers give in to demands.

    Cespedes, no second coming of Bo Jackson, signs with the Marlins for a “bloated” contract.

    Roy Oswalt and the Cardinals agree on a one year contract.

    Until later all. Have a great day.

  144. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Oh sorry. It’s in one that looked just like it.

  145. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 10:19 am
    Has any “lefty” in the AL only, since the 1960?s ever had a better season than Ron Guidry’s 25-3 record in 1978, looking at all stats?

    Randy Johnson was close, but alas no cigar.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    As I mentioned earlier…Sudden Sam McDowell with Cleveland in 1968 with an ugly team. Only the lack of wins kept him from matching Guidry.

  146. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 10:25 am
    Still predicting, and as always subject to intense criticism, before I go.

    Fielder, Boras and Lerner hook up again and Fielder signs with the Nats on a 6-7 year deal with an opt out after 3.

    Darvish signs with the Rangers before 5PM EST tomorrow for 5/55M plus perks or he walks/flies back to Japan. Rangers give in to demands.

    Cespedes, no second coming of Bo Jackson, signs with the Marlins for a “bloated” contract.

    Roy Oswalt and the Cardinals agree on a one year contract.

    Until later all. Have a great day.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    The Darvish deadline is this afternoon, isn’t it?

  147. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    YT – No, all of the seasons I would have ranked ahead of Guidry’s 78 are RHP, Pedro.. Clemens… RJ for the Mariners in ’95 was higher WAR than Guidry’s ’78… but no one has a better ERA+ that what Guidry did that year.

  148. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Darvish Deadline is Wednesday 4pm IIRC.

  149. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Oh sorry. It’s in one that looked just like it.

    Well? Lets see it.

    I’m not trying to upset you, it’s just the numbers you quoted were so far away from my perception of what people believe. I assumed it would be more like 50%.. I’m not trying to be a jerk, it was just shocking to me.

  150. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    who cares whether kelley was traded for a hitter instead of a pitcher. if the guy you get in a trade becomes one of the principles on a championship team, it’s a great trade

    ——————————————————-

    It matters when they trade from a position of weakness (Right handed power bat) and become a worse hitting team and receive a pitcher with “potential” back.

    You think Jerkface or others here would be having the same reaction if Montero Plus was turned into Upton?

  151. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/127.....rayer.aspx

  152. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Trader,

    have you ever looked back at Gibson’s 1968 season and wondered how a pitcher with an 1.12 ERA ever lost 9 games with a WS team?

  153. muwarriorsfan January 17th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    From watching Fielder since he’s been in Milwaukee, he seems to thrive in the heat, whether it be outdoors or when Miller Park would get steamy when the roof would be closed in the summer. Texas wouldn’t bother him at all. That lineup would be nearly unbeatable if Prince signs there.

  154. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    It was also shocking to me, truth be told. Pleasantly shocking, but nonetheless shocking.

  155. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    i dont care what jf thinks about the trade. good baseball people all over the country who have no stake in the trade think it was a great trade. and i dont even really care about them either.
    I’m a yankees fan. michael pineda is a yankee and looks to be a damn good one!
    Jesus Montero is a Mariner. I hope he does well against the rangers, angels and red socks, lousy against the yankees and i dont care much about the rest of the time.

  156. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    have you ever looked back at Gibson’s 1968 season and wondered how a pitcher with an 1.12 ERA ever lost 9 games with a WS team?

    That’s a great example of how meaningless wins and losses can be for a starting pitcher.

  157. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    GB-

    I think you know that Gibson was one of my all-time favorites.

    :)

  158. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Trader -

    I’ve been considering that for a while. In the scope of my 25 above the Yankees would likely just be getting some minor league filler.

    I’m of the opinion that the Yankees aren’t going to be able to get much for Mr. Allan James Burnett – yes the Cubs got back a servicable ML pitcher for Zambrano, but Zambrano’s also in the last year of his contract whereas Burnett has two years remaining.

    And yes, the Yankees did get back two prospects who turned out to be good ML pitchers for Irabu (Westbrook and Lilly) but Omar Minaya was running the Expos back then so take that with a grain of salt.

    If though the Yankees were able to get a major leaguer for Burnett, it would have to be someone like Burnett – expensive and/or coming off a down season.

    Many of the options have already been mentioned (Soriano, Rios, Carlos Lee) and dismissed for one reason or another – Soriano and Rios make more money than Burnett, AJ’s a bad fit for the Astros. So here are a couple of other suggestions:

    Torri Hunter – he is in the last year of his contract and makes $18 mil. The Angels could trade Hunter and go with an OF/DH alignment of Wells, Trout, Borgeous, Morales and still have Trumbo and Abreu on the bench. AJ would slot in behind Ervin Santana as the fifth starter. If the Yankees kicked in, say $8 mil, that would mean their commitment to AJ is $4 mil/year.

    Hunter’s not the player he used to be, but he’s going to be above average/good in RF and give you some right handed pop in the lineup shifting Swisher to DH.

    Scott Rolen – Has a full NTC and I don’t expect him to waive it. Also doesn’t make too much money.

    Pronk – a completely one dimensional player and injury prone. The Indians could move him, free up the DH spot for Grady Sizemore. Hafner is owed $13 mil this year with a $13 mil option for next year (club option). Burnett would take the spot of Carrasco who is out with TJ surgery.

    Of course the thing to keep in mind with most of these guys (and Burnett) is that they have partial or complete NTC and so we have to assume (for the sake of this argument) that all of them would be willing to accept deals. In Pronk’s case that would likely mean picking up his option at $13 mil for 2013.

  159. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/127…..rayer.aspx

    Interesting, thanks for the link.

  160. stuckey January 17th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    “Everything great thing is subject to human corruption.

    Blame the Human not the thing.”

    Absolutely right.

    I believe the indoctrination of the virtue of the power of “belief” is the culprit. The specific application of that is merely circumstance.

  161. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 17th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Not a prob.

    :)

  162. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Atoms are not good or bad.

    But people can and will be.

    ;)

    Gotta run.

    Time to walk the mops.

  163. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    mtu, me, too. although i went to my first game in ’64 (stotlemyre) i was only 4. i really became a baseball fan watching the ’67 and ’68 World Series. Gibby was the MAN!

  164. Tom in N.J. January 17th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Thomas Hobbes agrees.

  165. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I’m a yankees fan. michael pineda is a yankee and looks to be a damn good one!

    ——————————————————————-

    Based on what? His lack of a third pitch? His getting killed against the AL East? His having an awful second half which bad luck can’t be used as an excuse. His non clean mechanics? His home/road splits?

  166. LGY January 17th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    Opinions can differ on the trade but before we get excited about all the MLB Network talking heads and such calling it a great move by the Yankees, let’s keep in mind these are largely the same people who were head over heels with the Red Sox 12 months ago.

  167. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    From a Jeff Passan article and passed on from a nameless old, young friend of LoHud.

    Ribbit! Ribbit!

    Mets in Haiku

    Ha ha ha ha ha
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
    The Mets are funny

  168. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Outside of July, Pineda was fine. He was also a rookie.

    He’s like a bigger, better version of Betances.

  169. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Y’s-

    Gibson was a tremendous athlete and an absolute horse.

    His delivery proves that you do not have to have a perfect 10 point landing to throw the ball well, or to stay healthy.

    I cited Gibson to Randy last eve as an example of a guy who was a stud while still falling off the mound like Pineda.

    There’s hope.

    Back in a while.

    :)

  170. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    have you ever looked back at Gibson’s 1968 season and wondered how a pitcher with an 1.12 ERA ever lost 9 games with a WS team?

    =================================

    Gibson was 4-5 with a 1.66 ERA after 11 starts. Apparently he recognized he was on his own because his next 11 starts featured 99 innings pitched with 3 earned runs allowed and 8 shutouts. He was 15-5 after that 11 game stretch.

  171. Mike Ri January 17th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Jesus Montero is a Mariner. I hope he does well against the rangers, angels and red socks, lousy against the yankees and i dont care much about the rest of the time.

    amen YS Guy

  172. blake January 17th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    “Based on what? His lack of a third pitch? His getting killed against the AL East? His having an awful second half which bad luck can’t be used as an excuse.,

    Maybe his throwing 97 sigh a nasty slider for strikes at 22……and his 1.10 WHIP as a rookie in the big leagues.

  173. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Jeff Passan is a hack

  174. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    MTU, that works out to 1.447 runs per 9 innings…not earned runs, just runs. He allowed 49 runs in 304.2 innings. That is domination, regardless of the league or era pitched.

  175. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    “Based on what? His lack of a third pitch? His getting killed against the AL East? His having an awful second half which bad luck can’t be used as an excuse.,

    Maybe his throwing 97 sigh a nasty slider for strikes at 22……and his 1.10 WHIP as a rookie in the big leagues.

    Third highest K% in the league… doesn’t walk guys.

    Yeah, so many worries.

  176. pat January 17th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    More information than you’ll ever need to know about Alex’s HRs.

    NewsdaySportsNewsday Sports
    And we are now live with our new Alex Rodriguez career home run database. Come play at http://newsday.com/arod #yankees

  177. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    check out gibby’s follow-through in this shot from the ’68 series!

    http://bigmouthsports.com/wp-c.....r-2010.jpg

  178. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 10:41 am
    I’m a yankees fan. michael pineda is a yankee and looks to be a damn good one!

    ——————————————————————-

    Based on what? His lack of a third pitch? His getting killed against the AL East? His having an awful second half which bad luck can’t be used as an excuse. His non clean mechanics? His home/road splits?

    ——–

    His second half is explained by the fact that he hit his innings high and wore down. Happened to Nova in 2010 too.

    His numbers vs. the AL East are too small to tell us anything:

    vs. Boston – 1 start, 4.1 IP, 14.54 ERA
    vs. Tampa – 2 starts 12.1 IP, 2.19 ERA
    vs. Toronto – 3 starts 18 IP, 5.30 ERA
    vs. Baltimore – 2 starts, 13 IP, 2.77 ERA

  179. blake January 17th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Pineda has two very plus pitches that he can throw for strikes……the development t of a third pitch will determine his ceiling but barring injury his floor shouldis be quite high with just what he has now.

  180. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    The only thing we really need to “worry” about with Pineda is he is going to get touched up by lefties hitters until his change-up comes around.

    As long as his arm doesn’t fall off (don’t worry, I am going to go knock on every piece of wood in this building) he’ll be just fine.

    The Yankees have had 2 pitchers EVER that have had better than a strikeout an inning… ever. How ridiculous is that?

    Pineda accomplished that in his rookie season.

  181. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    based on 95+ with control at 22, that’s what.

  182. DONNYBROOK January 17th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    It Always comes down to pitching, so whatever the Rangers do concerning Fielder is of little consequence to the Yanks. Throw in the fact Texas is Not in the AL East and you getta “so what?” with a shoulder shrug from the Yanks. Yankees top-to-bottom Now have the Best Rotation in the AL. I aint even lookin’ at the NL, as that is of absolutely NO concern at this point in time. Tampa’s Moore concerns me, as coupling him with a hot Price or Shields could result inna Randy Johnson\Schilling cloning come October. Other than that, the Yanks are ready to roll come April. Barring The Black Plague\Injuries, July 31 is looking more like a “blocking” period of time for the Yanks. Right now, they Need absolutely nothing. The DH Slot? You shake a tree and a DH falls out.

  183. austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Ys guy,

    I agree on Pineda and Montero. I am a Yankee fan first and foremost. While I have my favorite players, once they leave, so long. Whoever wears the uniform, gets my fullsupport.

    Anyone who can’t see Pineda’s ability, just isn’t looking. He has as good of ability as about anyone his age in baseball. Maybe he will just have to struggle as a two pitch pitcher like Gooden did in his youth. He had a great strike out rate, a very imprissive fastb all and slider, and held opposing batters to a minscule batting average. If you don’t see ability, go watch another sport because baseball is clearly not your game.

  184. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    i can deal with you guys moping over montero (barely, though) but i just don’t get the need to put down pineda. he’s our guy and he’s shown some eye opening stuff.

  185. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    If this was Betances instead of Pineda… having just thrown the season he did, we would have people here putting him ahead of CC in the rotation. Instead we get people writing him off because he’s not “one of the boys” as a 4th starter for this team.

    Pineda is going to turn heads. Hopefully not like Burnett does. :)

  186. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I’m a yankees fan. michael pineda is a yankee and looks to be a damn good one!

    ——————————————————————-

    Based on what? His lack of a third pitch? His getting killed against the AL East? His having an awful second half which bad luck can’t be used as an excuse. His non clean mechanics? His home/road splits?

    —————————————————–

    Yea the mechanics are a concern no matter how hard ppl are trying to ignore it.

  187. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Pineda needs a good third pitch if he’s going to be an ace in this league. That’s a fact, not a put down.

  188. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    How many pitchers break into the league at 22 with a third pitch? He has plenty of time to work that out and… we don’t need him to be an ace if Campos turns out.

  189. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    i can deal with you guys moping over montero (barely, though) but i just don’t get the need to put down pineda. he’s our guy and he’s shown some eye opening stuff.

    ————————————–

    Not putting him down just balancing it out.

  190. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    i can deal with you guys moping over montero (barely, though) but i just don’t get the need to put down pineda. he’s our guy and he’s shown some eye opening stuff.

    ———————————————————————————

    I just have a very hard time trading a young hitter for a pitcher which is why it is not done that often.

    Think the Brewers wouldn’t rather have Lawrie right now instead of Marcum? Especially after losing Fielder

  191. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    pat January 17th, 2012 at 10:47 am
    More information than you’ll ever need to know about Alex’s HRs.

    NewsdaySportsNewsday Sports
    And we are now live with our new Alex Rodriguez career home run database. Come play at http://newsday.com/arod #yankees

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    So much for the fallacy that Rodriguez isn’t “clutch”. 266 home runs either tied (50), put his team ahead (207) or were walk-off homers (9).

  192. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    I just have a very hard time trading a young hitter for a pitcher which is why it is not done that often.

    This is how most trades work, the Yankee’s just don’t make them.

  193. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    How many pitchers break into the league at 22 with a third pitch? He has plenty of time to work that out and… we don’t need him to be an ace if Campos turns out.

    ———————————————————————

    and you trust the Yankees to teach him that third pitch?

  194. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 10:48 am
    check out gibby’s follow-through in this shot from the ’68 series!

    http://bigmouthsports.com/wp-c…..r-2010.jpg

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Almost as ugly as Jim Bouton’s

  195. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    How many pitchers break into the league at 22 with a third pitch? He has plenty of time to work that out and… we don’t need him to be an ace if Campos turns out.

    ID I like you man but this is the weirdest comment I’ve read from you in awhile. Nobody is saying a 22 year old has to have 3 plus pitches but we gave up Montero for this guy, you expect him to be an ace. And right now he’s not, he needs a third pitch. For this deal to be worth it, Pineda needs to be an ace.

    Bringing Campos into the conversation is crazy, he’s 3+ years away.

  196. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    This is how most trades work, the Yankee’s just don’t make them

    ————————————————————————-

    How many top 10 prospects who are hitters get traded before they even have a full year in the majors?

  197. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    and you trust the Yankees to teach him that third pitch?

    We trusted them to teach Montero how to catch with 3 coaches on the staff as former catchers and a HOF Posada to learn from… and look how that turned out.

    You can’t rely on the staff for everything, the player is truly responsible for how much they progress.

  198. Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    GB, ID, Chip-

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Met Gibson when he was a pitching coach for the Braves, and he still was a physical specimen.

    Pretended that I didn’t recognize him and said”you look familiar. Aren’t you the pitcher who was locked in many battles with Sandy Koufax?”

    He responded with, “Yes and I lost most of them.” I laughed and said don’t think so.

    Just looked up lefty Sam McDowell. He had some terrific years and an ERA+165[his best] when he was only 15-14 with a 1.81 ERA in 1968 for Cleveland.

  199. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    pineda’s 3rd pitch = montero’s glove.

  200. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    We trusted them to teach Montero how to catch with 3 coaches on the staff as former catchers and a HOF Posada to learn from… and look how that turned out.

    ——————————————————————–

    The jury is still out on this one as I really don’t think he was given an ample chance to catch and I just can’t believe that Montero would have been any worse then Piazza behind the plate

  201. Erin January 17th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Joba_62 I love snow! #livinthedream http://pic.twitter.com/wJiOjvRD

  202. austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Triple,

    No, the Yankees have no coaching. They should just disband. Ridiculous.

  203. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    pineda’s 3rd pitch = montero’s glove.

    ——————————————-

    Pineda’s 3rd pitch = Montero becoming Frank Thomas/Piazza/Miggy

  204. pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    “So much for the fallacy that Rodriguez isn’t “clutch”. 266 home runs either tied (50), put his team ahead (207) or were walk-off homers (9).”

    When you hit that many, you get lucky on occasion. :wink:

  205. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    No, the Yankees have no coaching. They should just disband. Ridiculous.

    ———————————————————————–

    Yes because there track record with young pitchers has been oh so stellar.

  206. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Good pitching is way easier to find then good hitting. The game has changed

  207. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Triple,

    No, the Yankees have no coaching. They should just disband. Ridiculous.

    ———————————————

    They need to improve it’s hard to argue that they can teach Pineda pitch. This is the same club still trying to develop secondary pitchers for Hughes.

  208. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Patrick – Bringing Campos into the conversation is crazy

    No, only looking at 2 players in a 4 player trade is crazy. :)

    Montero had no clear path and blocking the DH role is silly for this club. I went over this for hours yesterday, I’m not doing it again today. Montero’s value to this club was lower than his value to basically every other club in baseball (aside from Min, SF, ARI, CLE, ATL). That value has now been re-purposed into the rotation.

    You want “ace” production out of Montero because that’s what you thought you could get for him in return. Turns out that in reality, he was only actually worth a very good pitching prospect coming off his rookie season, and upgrading Noesi to a better prospect.

    Let Montero accumulate his 30 WAR over the next 5 years before we decide that we needed to get an “ace” in return for an incomplete player.

  209. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    montero is not frank thomas. if you are going to just assume that a guy with good potential is just going to fulfill that potential, then yankees fans can just say michael pineda is justin verlander. its ridiculous.

  210. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:05 am
    pineda’s 3rd pitch = montero’s glove.

    ——————————————-

    Pineda’s 3rd pitch = Montero becoming Frank Thomas/Piazza/Miggy

    ——————

    I think it’s a lot easier to assume a kid can learn a third pitch than that one will become a hall of fame hitter.

  211. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Yankee Trader January 17th, 2012 at 11:03 am
    GB, ID, Chip-

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Met Gibson when he was a pitching coach for the Braves, and he still was a physical specimen.

    Pretended that I didn’t recognize him and said”you look familiar. Aren’t you the pitcher who was locked in many battles with Sandy Koufax?”

    He responded with, “Yes and I lost most of them.” I laughed and said don’t think so.

    Just looked up lefty Sam McDowell. He had some terrific years and an ERA+165[his best] when he was only 15-14 with a 1.81 ERA in 1968 for Cleveland.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Have you seen his interviews with Costas on MLB? He’s really funny. Of course a hitter would only think so, now. Probably not a lot of giggles now. His funniest story was in his last game, the Cubs Pete LaC0ck hit a grand slam off of him. 10 years later, Gibson drilled him with his first pitch….in an Old Timer’s Game.

  212. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    An ace isn’t what I thought I could get for Montero, it’s what I wanted to get for Montero. As I’ve said many times on this blog, there is a very select group of players I’d trade Montero for. Pineda is not on that list.

    Montero is far better than most are giving him credit for, it’s disappointing how fast opinions hcange around here

  213. DONNYBROOK January 17th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Whatever happened to that 97 MPH Heater that Noesi was throwing in Winter Ball?

  214. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Turns out that in reality, he was only actually worth a very good pitching prospect coming off his rookie season

    —————————————————————–

    He was worth Cliff Lee a few years ago

  215. pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    “How many top 10 prospects who are hitters get traded before they even have a full year in the majors?”

    Would Hanley and Smoak qualify?

  216. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Good pitching is way easier to find then good hitting. The game has changed

    Lol… not so much. I’d love to see any data pointing to this. Good pitching that costs less than $15m/year is the single greatest commodity in baseball. Just because hitting is down over 3 seasons doesn’t mean that suddenly pitching is falling out of the sky.

  217. Tom in N.J. January 17th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    What’s more likely, Pineda developing a useful 3rd pitch or Montero becoming as good as Thomas/Piazza/Miggy?

  218. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:06 am
    “So much for the fallacy that Rodriguez isn’t “clutch”. 266 home runs either tied (50), put his team ahead (207) or were walk-off homers (9).”

    When you hit that many, you get lucky on occasion.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    If he’s healthy this coming season, maybe he’ll get lucky about 35 times.

  219. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    I think it’s a lot easier to assume a kid can learn a third pitch than that one will become a hall of fame hitter.

    ————————————————————————–

    Well I should have changed it to say him developing a third pitch and becoming an ace.

    It might be easier on other teams to develop a third pitch but do you really feel confident with the Yankees track record?

  220. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    patrick – I don’t think I’m discounting how good montero is… but how can people claim the trade a “failure” already because PIneda needs to still learn a third pitch (which he can learn, lots of pitchers change their arsenal as their career goes on)… Montero can’t catch. How is this not as large of a blemish?

    Accepting that his place on this club was as a DH is a failure of player development.

    donnybrook – That heater got traded away before it disappeared in a puff of smoke. :)

  221. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Would Hanley and Smoak qualify?

    ————————————————

    Sure do and look who they were traded for? Also Theo said he would have never made that deal if he was there

  222. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    look who they were traded for?

    The Rangers getting 2 1/2 months of Cliff Lee is an impressive haul?

  223. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Good pitching that costs less than $15m/year is the single greatest commodity in baseball.

    ==================================

    Some pretty good, young, cost controlled pitching has been moved around this winter.

  224. austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Wait, I thought Rothschild was a good pitching coach? Now, I realize neither he nor anyone else knows anything about pitching. Fire all the coaches and let board members operate the team.

    Montero can hit, but he has a body that isn’t meant to squat and catch. That has what everyone has been saying for years. He is a DH on the Yankees. No, I don’t trust any board member to say otherwise.

    Many have said DHs are a dime a dozen, yet Montero as DH is extremely valuable. Most in baseball would consider a DH to play only half the game.

    Move on people. Be happy the Yankees improved their team. Only the Montero relatives we have on this board don’t think it was a great trade.

  225. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    The Yankees got 5 years of Pineda instead of 2 months of Cliff Lee… I’d say they did OK.

  226. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Montero is far better than most are giving him credit for, it’s disappointing how fast opinions hcange around here

    ————————————-

    Go around to some other boards or blogs you would be surprised at what you see. Ppl have compared Jesus to Shane Spencer and Kevin Maas.

  227. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    I don’t think anyone is saying the trade is a failure. Many of us are just disappointed it was made. It could turn out well for the Yankees but the odds are it doesn’t.

    Montero’s position literally doesn’t matter. He’s the kind of hitter where it really doesn’t matter where he plays, or if he just DH’s. There is a very low chance that he isn’t a great hitter in the majors. Pitchers by nature are just more volatile, especially young pitchers with only 2 pitches.

  228. DONNYBROOK January 17th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    A-Rod should benefit greatly with his knee and thumb healed completely, AND batting behind Cano. Cano hitting in front of him is gonna give A-Rod a lotta opportunities to pad the stats.

  229. pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    “Would Hanley and Smoak qualify?”

    Matt Laporta?

  230. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Tom in N.J. January 17th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    What’s more likely, Pineda developing a useful 3rd pitch or Montero becoming as good as Thomas/Piazza/Miggy?

    ———————————————–

    There is a better chance that Montero becomes a good hitter than it is that Pineda becomes a no doubt ace since pitching is volatile.

  231. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:13 am
    I think it’s a lot easier to assume a kid can learn a third pitch than that one will become a hall of fame hitter.

    ————————————————————————–

    Well I should have changed it to say him developing a third pitch and becoming an ace.

    It might be easier on other teams to develop a third pitch but do you really feel confident with the Yankees track record?
    ————

    If he was in the minors, in the hands of Nardi, my answer would be no. But do I think Larry Rothschild can teach him a change? Yup.

  232. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Cahill,Gonzalez,Grienke,Marcum,Ubaldo,Pineda,Garza,Scherzer,Kennedy

    I know I’m forgetting some but these were all good young pitchers that got traded within the past couple of years. How many good young in their prime hitters get dealt?

  233. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    patrick- He’s the kind of hitter where it really doesn’t matter where he plays, or if he just DH’s. This is just a fundamental difference in beliefs. I believe it always matters. Especially to the Yankees. More-so to the Yankees than any other AL club.

    They’ve been trying to trade Montero away for 2, almost 3 years… this shouldn’t have come as such a big surprise to everyone.

  234. Villa Nova-Ya January 17th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    No, Montero wasn’t the only piece in the Cliff Lee trade. it was Montero plus, plus, and I think plus. So you weren’t getting Lee for Montero.

    Montero ALONE was never going to be enough to bring back a #1 bonafide ace.

  235. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    In a few years when Montero is the best hitter in the AL, remember this day.

  236. djsunyc January 17th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    the one thing folks have failed to mention is that with montero’s recent departure, we will be saved from hearing that god awful “jesus is loose” call…

  237. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Cahill,Gonzalez,Grienke,Marcum,Ubaldo,Pineda,Garza,Scherzer,Kennedy

    I know I’m forgetting some but these were all good young pitchers that got traded within the past couple of years. How many good young in their prime hitters get dealt?

    —————————————

    Not just the young guys some of the older ones as well Doc, Lee(pitched on 5 teams in 2 yrs,), Haren, etc. Ppl make it seem like pitching dried up and was barren for yrs no it didn’t dry up for the league just for the Yankees.

  238. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    patrick – In a few years, if Montero is the best hitter in the Al he’ll be signing with the Yankees to play 1B. Until then the pitching staff can win us some titles.

  239. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Texas has made it to 2 straight world series and they have a bunch of number 3 and 4 type pitchers

  240. Villa Nova-Ya January 17th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    And “trying to trade him” is one way to look at it, I guess. I think it’s more like he was their biggest asset and who other teams were trying to trade FOR. They didn’t make him unavailable as in untouchable, but it was clear he wasn’t going to be traded for yesterday’s garbage, either.

    Even so, with other teams, Montero alone was never getting back what the Yankees needed.

  241. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Triple – How about all of the good young hitters those pitchers got traded for… you just know who the other team’s “Montero’s” are… You see a guy like Rizzo or Headley get traded out of SD and think nothing of it.

  242. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    patrick – In a few years, if Montero is the best hitter in the Al he’ll be signing with the Yankees to play 1B

    ——————————-

    Many ppl have brought this up not sure if they’re joking or not

  243. stuckey January 17th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    “Good pitching is way easier to find then good hitting. The game has changed”

    Of course it isn’t.

    The statistical definition of good hitting is changing.

    People really need to wrap their heads around this before operating under the fallacy good hitting will be harder to find in coming years.

    Finding players with OPS’s (for example) comparable to pre-2010 highs and norms MAY become harder to find.

    Finding players with strong RELATIVE OPS to the CURRENT highs/norms won’t be any harder to find.

  244. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Even so, with other teams, Montero alone was never getting back what the Yankees needed.

    ———————————————————————————

    Philly gave up garbage to get Halladay and Lee

  245. Villa Nova-Ya January 17th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    How many good young hitters of the type I think you have in mind have there really been lately?

  246. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:20 am
    Cahill,Gonzalez,Grienke,Marcum,Ubaldo,Pineda,Garza,Scherzer,Kennedy

    I know I’m forgetting some but these were all good young pitchers that got traded within the past couple of years. How many good young in their prime hitters get dealt?

    ————–

    Hamilton
    CarGo
    Miggy
    Piazza
    Ethier
    Beltran
    Carlos Lee
    Soriano
    A-Rod
    Brian Giles
    Carlos Quentin
    Tex (twice)

    That’s just off the top of my head – there could be more I’m not thinking of.

  247. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    You see a guy like Rizzo or Headley get traded out of SD and think nothing of it.

    ————————————————————————–

    Rizzo was a product of the Boston hype machine which is why he has been traded twice now in a year and Boston traded him for a hitter.

    Please don’t compare Rizzo or Headley to Montero

  248. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:27 am
    Even so, with other teams, Montero alone was never getting back what the Yankees needed.

    ———————————————————————————

    Philly gave up garbage to get Halladay and Lee

    ————

    That’s because to get Halladay meant also giving him a huge contract which brought down his value (and I would argue that Kyle Drabek is not garbage anyway) and in getting Cliff Lee the Phillies gave up a young ace in Carrasco as well for a pitcher who, at that time, was one year removed from being sent to the minors because he was so bad.

  249. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    How many good young hitters of the type I think you have in mind have there really been lately?

    —————————————————————————

    Exactly which was my point of how offense has become the scarce commodity.

  250. austinmac January 17th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    So Montero, who hit under .300 in his two years in AAA will be the best hitter in the league? I like him as a hitter, but this is over the top. Please describe your scouting experience so we can depress ourselves with your predictive ability.

    Yet, Pineda, who actually greatly succeeded in the majors at a young age is a future reliever.

  251. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Oh yeah – I forgot about Adrian Gonzalez.

  252. pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    I wish Montero well, hope he is a successful ML catcher and awes Mariners fans with his brilliance -except when playing the Yankees. And then in a few years maybe he will follow the path of Tino Martinez, Jeff Nelson, Luis Sojo, Alex Rodriguez and Randy Johnson so we can witness it first hand.

  253. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    That’s because to get Halladay meant also giving him a huge contract which brought down his value (and I would argue that Kyle Drabek is not garbage anyway) and in getting Cliff Lee the Phillies gave up a young ace in Carrasco as well for a pitcher who, at that time, was one year removed from being sent to the minors because he was so bad.

    ——————————————————————–

    So you think that the Phillies gave up fair market value for these 2 pitchers?

  254. Patrick January 17th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Yet, Pineda, who actually greatly succeeded in the majors at a young age is a future reliever.

    Who said he’s a future reliever? I certainly didn’t.

  255. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    triple – Sorry, but the list of hitters that have been hyped like Montero and flop is way longer than the list of ones that succeed.

    I’m not saying he’s going to flop, I’m saying you don’t assume he’s going to be as good as some of the greatest hitters ever. You don’t assume he’s going to be “the best hitter in the league” as patrick put it… because that’s silly.

    Montero hasn’t even put together a complete minor league season, he only seems to be productive for about half. He has maturity problems, and can’t play defense. He is simply not the “gift from the gods” that he has been made out to be. He could be… you can’t know… Pineda could be the next Cy Young… if you have seemingly no trust in the Yankee’s ability to make these decisions, I wonder why you root for them. Just because they win? You don’t seem to be entertained by their organizational decisions ever.

  256. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:29 am
    You see a guy like Rizzo or Headley get traded out of SD and think nothing of it.

    ————————————————————————–

    Rizzo was a product of the Boston hype machine which is why he has been traded twice now in a year and Boston traded him for a hitter.

    Please don’t compare Rizzo or Headley to Montero

    —————

    Not to take away from Montero – but at least when they traded for Rizzo the Cubs and Padres both knew that he has a position on the field. Same can’t be said for Jesus.

  257. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    I wish Montero well, hope he is a successful ML catcher and awes Mariners fans with his brilliance -except when playing the Yankees. And then in a few years maybe he will follow the path of Tino Martinez, Jeff Nelson, Luis Sojo, Alex Rodriguez and Randy Johnson so we can witness it first hand
    ————————

    Why would he come back to the team that never believed in him.

  258. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Why would he come back to the team that never believed in him.

    Money and rings. The same thing that motivates every baseball player.

    Remember 2 weeks ago when we all thought “there is no way Cashman goes back to Seattle to make a deal with their dishonest GM”… well…

  259. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Things change.

    I don’t know why that got cut off the end there.

  260. DONNYBROOK January 17th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    I believe just about Any MLB Pitching Coach can teach a prospect how to throw a change-up. It really comes down to the prospect having the confidence to throw that pitch in pressure situations. We have all seen SP’s display a changeup in ST, and then when the regular season begins and the games actually count that pitch disappears. The blame lies with The Chucker, Not the Pitching Coach.

  261. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    I wonder why you root for them. Just because they win? You don’t seem to be entertained by their organizational decisions ever.

    ——————————————————————————

    So because I don’t like this trade means I can’t root for them?

    I loved the CC signing, was happy they didn’t trade for Santana, liked the Vasquez trade even though it didn’t work out. You act like I criticize every move they make

  262. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    triple – I want you to keep in mind that this is all coming from someone who has $200+ invested in a dynasty fantasy league, and i sat on my #1 waiver spot for 5 months waiting for Montero to get called up so I could keep him, and he won’t even qualify at catcher to start the 2012 season… so I fully expect Montero to be good.

    I’m just not assuming he’s a 21 year old HOF DH.

  263. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Why would he come back to the team that never believed in him.

    Money and rings. The same thing that motivates every baseball player.

    Remember 2 weeks ago when we all thought “there is no way Cashman goes back to Seattle to make a deal with their dishonest GM”… well…

    ——————————–

    Cashman has had an obsession with getting King Felix over the past couple of yrs. No matter what Jack Z did to the Yankees nothing was going to change.

  264. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I’m just not assuming he’s a 21 year old HOF DH.

    ———————————————————–

    I’m not saying he will be a future HOF either but I see the core Yankee hitters all old and past their prime with the exception of Granderson and Cano and I wonder where we will be able to find a hitter that can actually hit for average.

    The only hitter that might hit the market would be Upton

  265. GreenBeret7 January 17th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    How were Hamilton and Ethier good young hitters in their prime?

    Hamilton was traded because nobody trusted him to stay clean and Ethier was a rookie in his first Dodger season.

  266. DONNYBROOK January 17th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    - CURRENT A-ROD FANTASY $$$ VALUE -

    $39 (With A Bullet)

  267. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    “Montero is far better than most are giving him credit for, it’s disappointing how fast opinions hcange around here”
    =============================
    not mine. it seemed clear from way back that if montero couldn’t catch that he wasn’t sticking on a team with older hitters on long-term contracts. when cervelli went down in ST last year and they sent montero out anyway, that told me something. (i figured 50 games at scranton to show he can catch, then he’d be back) when he stayind in scranton past the asb, that told me something.
    the final straw was the day they rushed romine up to avoid having montero behind the plate. it was obvious he was no more than trade bait.
    i always thought he will hit, and i still do, but i never doubted he was going to be traded. im just psyched we only traded him and kept banuelos and betances.

  268. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Triple – The only hitter that might hit the market would be Upton

    This is taking a pretty narrow view of the way the league works, considering that neither Berkman, Swisher or Granderson… were “on the market” yet found their way to pinstripes when the team needed some offense. You haven’t noticed that most of the trades and moves Cashman makes seemingly come out of nowhere?

  269. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Is it possible that both Pineda and Montero both turn out to be studs ?

    The risk in the trade is considerable. No one should understimate it.

    Nor should they overestimate it.

    We’re gonna know in the fullness of time. Until then all the rest is just noise.

    Me. I wish them both well.

    Nobody has a definitive answer now.

    ;)

  270. Ys Guy January 17th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    if anyone thought montero by himself was bringing back an ace, you were badly miscalculating. it would have taken montero plus at least betances or banuelos plus noesi.

  271. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Chip-

    And if Larry can’t.

    maybe Hiroki, Freddy, or CC can.

    ;)

  272. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    if anyone thought montero by himself was bringing back an ace, you were badly miscalculating. it would have taken montero plus at least betances or banuelos plus noesi.

    ——————————————————————————-

    The package traded for Dan Haren would disagree

  273. pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    “Why would he come back to the team that never believed in him.”

    Because players understand it’s a business.

  274. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    If Pineda becomes a number 3 starter and Montero goes on to have years hitting 35 bombs, 100 plus RBIs and hits 290 would people be ok with that?

  275. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Triple – Trades made by GM’s that were promptly fired afterwards are not a great example of how the market actually works.

  276. blake January 17th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    “Finding players with strong RELATIVE OPS to the CURRENT highs/norms won’t be any harder to find.”

    Yes finding average hitters wont be hard…..its finding better than average hitters that are under 30 that’s getting tougher and when more teams have better pitchjng that’s an issue if you want to have a team that’s better than average in the future.

  277. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Triple – Trades made by GM’s that were promptly fired afterwards are not a great example of how the market actually works.

    ———————————————————————–

    Take Latos or Gonzalez then. True both teams gave up more prospects but none of them included a guy like Montero

  278. Gary January 17th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    It’s off topic and maybe some have already read this, but I was just horrified that the person in charge with a Master Captain license would act like this on the grounded cruise ship.

    Coast Guard: Hello.

    Captain: Good evening, chief.

    Coast Guard: Listen, this is De Falco from Livorno. Am I speaking with the captain?

    Captain: Good evening, Chief De Falco.

    Coast Guard: Tell me your name, please.

    Captain: I am Captain Schettino, chief.

    Coast Guard: Schettino?

    Captain: Yes.

    Coast Guard: Listen, Schettino. There are people trapped on board. Now, you go with your lifeboat. Under the bow of the ship, on the right side, there is a ladder. You climb on that ladder and go on board the ship. Go on board the ship and get back to me and tell me how many people are there. Is that clear. I am recording this conversation, Captain Schettino.

    (Captain tries to speak but Coast Guard can’t hear him clearly. Voices in the Coast Guard room.)

    Coast Guard: Speak up! (captain tries to speak) Captain, put your hand over the microphone and speak in a louder voice!

    Captain: At this moment the ship is listing.

    Coast Guard: There are people who are coming down the ladder on the bow. Go back in the opposite direction, get back on the ship, and tell me how many people there are and what they have on board. Tell me if there are children, women and what type of help they need. And you tell me the number of each of these categories. Is that clear?

    Listen Schettino, perhaps you have saved yourself from the sea but I will make you look very bad. I will make you pay for this. Dammit, go back on board!

    (Noise can be heard in the background. Apparently other Coast Guard officers are shouting to each other in the same room about “the ship, the ship”)

    Captain: Please …

    Coast Guard: There is no ‘please’ about it. Get back on board. Assure me you are going back on board!

    Captain: I’m in a lifeboat, I am under here. I am not going anywhere. I am here.

    Coast Guard: What are you doing, captain?

    Captain: I am here to coordinate the rescue…

    Coast Guard (interrupting): What are you coordinating there! Get on board! Coordinate the rescue from on board! Are you refusing?

    Captain: No, I am not refusing.

    Coast Guard: Are you refusing to go aboard, captain? Tell me the reason why you are not going back on board.

    Captain: (inaudible)… there is a another lifeboat…

    Coast Guard (interrupting, yelling): You get back on board! That is an order! There is nothing else for you to consider. You have sounded the “Abandon Ship.” Now I am giving the orders. Get back on board. Is that clear? Don’t you hear me?

    Captain: I am going aboard.

    Coast Guard: Go! Call me immediately when you are on board. My rescue people are in front of the bow.

    Captain: Where is your rescue craft?

    Coast Guard: My rescue craft is at the bow. Go! There are already bodies, Schettino. Go!

    Captain: How many bodies are there?

    Coast Guard: I don’t know! … Christ, you should be the one telling me that!

    Captain: Do you realize that it is dark and we can’t see anything?

    Coast Guard: So, what do you want to do, to go home, Schettino?! It’s dark and you want to go home? Go to the bow of the ship where the ladder is and tell me what needs to be done, how many people there are, and what they need! Now!

    Captain: My second in command is here with me.

    Coast Guard: Then both of you go! Both of you! What is the name of your second in command?

    Captain: His name is Dmitri (static)”

    Coast Guard: What is the rest of his name? (static) You and your second in command get on board now! Is that clear?

    Captain: Look, chief, I want to go aboard but the other lifeboat here has stopped and is drifting. I have called …

    Coast Guard (interrupting): You have been telling me this for an hour! Now, go aboard! Get on board, and tell me immediately how many people there are!

    Captain: OK, chief.

    Coast Guard: Go! Immediately!

  279. blake January 17th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Cliff Lee returned to the Phillies after they traded him

  280. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    If Pineda becomes a number 3 starter and Montero goes on to have years hitting 35 bombs, 100 plus RBIs and hits 290 would people be ok with that?

    ——————————

    As long as he doesn’t end up in the pen there are ppl who would be ok with it.

  281. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    If Pineda becomes a number 3 starter and Montero goes on to have years hitting 35 bombs, 100 plus RBIs and hits 290 would people be ok with that?

    ================================

    Suppose it would depend on how the team is doing. If they keep winning 95 and appear in the playoffs, it’d be hard to get all that worked up.

  282. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Triple -

    At the time I didn’t – but as Drabek and Carrasco have progressed and as Halladay and Lee get more expensive and older I think it balances out even more.

    Are the Yankees better because of this deal? Absolutely. You know how I know? Because at this time last week people were trying to talk themselves into AJ Burnett being able to handle the 4 spot in this rotation – now he’s probably not even with the club when they break camp.

    The Yankees were the number 2 offense in the league last year getting down performances from Alex, Tex and the DH spot. I have no doubt that the club is going to hit – whether or not they were going to pitch was another story entirely.

    Going forward the Yankees have (potentially) a young core of pitchers to go with CC in Nova, Pineda, Hughes, Betances and Banuelos – the back end pitchers in Scranton that we were hoping would contribute this year – the guys like Phelps and Warren and Mitchell can be utilized to augment any offensive issues the team might have (which I don’t think they will).

    Additionally, forget what you think you know about Montero and look at the fact that the Yankees, even when Russ Martin got hurt and slumped horribly during the season, made no move to promote Montero. They waited and called him up in September when he was facing other team’s callups. Even when he was here, they used Austin Romine behind the plate as much as they did Montero. They were protecting him…why? Because they don’t think he’s a good catcher and didn’t want him to get exposed? Because they wanted to put him in positions to succeed in front of ML scouts? I don’t know. But if you look at how he was used it doesn’t jive with the way they talked about him.

    If the Yankees really believe he’s the next Miguel Cabrera or Mike Piazza then they never would have dealt him. They sooner would have converted him into an outfielder in anticipation of Swisher’s departure than trade him.

    Again – maybe even if he only DH’s he does so at a level like Edgar Martinez and if so, kudos to the Mariners. But on this team if that’s what he was then he wasn’t going to fit. And yes, the lineup is getting older and it would have been nice to have a young bat to add to Cano’s in it – but by dealing him for Pineda they don’t have to force Banuelos or Betances into the rotation and they push their weakest link out of it without taking away from their offense too much.

    Remember, you’re not looking now to replace the supposed productivity of Montero in the lineup – you’re just looking to replace Posada.

  283. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    pat January 17th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    “Why would he come back to the team that never believed in him.”

    Because players understand it’s a business.

    ——————————-

    And he’ll think of it as a business to when he goes to another team.

  284. Chip January 17th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:52 am
    Triple – Trades made by GM’s that were promptly fired afterwards are not a great example of how the market actually works.

    ———————————————————————–

    Take Latos or Gonzalez then. True both teams gave up more prospects but none of them included a guy like Montero

    ————-

    Reds fans would disagree on that one.

  285. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Blake-

    There will always be some teams who are starved for good pitching.

    It runs in cycles.

    Same with hitters.

    The FA outlook varies from year to year as does the availbility thru trade.

    It might look one way at the moment and shift next year or thereafter.

    I agree that’s the current trend.

    It won’t stay that way.

  286. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    The package traded for Dan Haren would disagree

    ==========================

    Which one?

  287. PacoDooley January 17th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Wow, discussions going in every direction here. Here is my take

    Montero is going to be a largely 1 dimensional player – a DH. This is not the Yankees fault, he just happens to be too slow and un-athletic to play the field (but might be able to back up at the catcher position). He is an unproven prospect that has a great swing and great potential, but hasn’t yet matched his potential will success (not including a short stint in NY last year – small sample size). His stats in AAA were good, but not outstanding.

    Pineda had a phenomenal season at the big league level considering his age. He was very good regardless of age (just look at stats like xFIP, WHIP, K/9 etc), so he has proven value and is still very young.

    They looked to trade Montero because they do not see a deep need for a full time DH and he was their best trade chip. He was not bringing back more than Pineda on his own. He was part of a larger package offered for a few months of Cliff Lee. He would have been only part of a package for other established #1 starters. They got comparable, and arguable more value, in Pineda given the cost.

  288. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Triple – Can you come up with something better than “number 3 starter”?

    In 2011, the difference between Cole Hamels and Alfredo Simon has me confused since they are both pitching as “#3″ starters.

    If Pineda keeps his ERA down, doesn’t start walking guys and helps the team win a world series, I don’t care what Montero hits.

  289. Best To Ever Do It January 17th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    @ Gary what he did was disgusting and he should lose his license.

  290. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    FWIW, Banuelos ranked #2 on LHP top prospects list behind the incomparable Matt Moore. I hope to see a couple of our other lefties on that list, as we have had a dearth of LHP in our minors. Camarena comes to mind. Turley won’t get the props without the power arm, but should be a big year for him.

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=mlb

  291. Wave Your Hat January 17th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    I was looking forward to seeing Montero play as a Yank, but this trade just had to be made. Sure, there’s lot’s of risk in it for the Yanks – a pitcher is more likely to get hurt than a hitter – but it’s clear that Montero wasn’t going to catch on the Yanks. He was going to DH this year, and wasn’t going to get enough time behind the plate to develop in a position he needed a lot of experience time at. It is cheaper to replace production at DH than anywhere else, and the Yanks aging stars were going to crowd the DH slot anyway down the road. And the Yanks were going to score plenty of runs with or without Montero.

    Pineda is younger after 170 IPs in the majors than Betances is. It allows the Yanks not to have to chase a mega-salary starter like Hamels. With the addition of Kuroda he solidifies a staff that was full of question marks. Once Banuelos and Betances arrive the staff will be good and cheap, allowing the Yanks flexibility to spend money on hitters down the road.

    I am completely with ID on this one.

  292. yankeefeminista January 17th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    on that list *in the future* it should read

  293. MTU January 17th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    New thread —>

  294. blake January 17th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    MTU,

    Probably so…..but we don’t know his long that trend will continue….these trends can last awhile….

    Cashman gave ip the best prospect moved this winter…..the Latos package in particular though was a higher overall price than what the Yanks paid for Pineda…….and none of those deals got a guy like Campos kicked in

  295. Irreverent Discourse January 17th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    WYH – Once Banuelos and Betances arrive the staff will be good and cheap, allowing the Yanks flexibility to spend money on hitters down the road.

    I think this is the biggest advantage to what Cashman is doing… grown the staff, pay the bats.

  296. dogface January 17th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Reds fans would disagree on that one.

    ========================

    They’d be incorrect.

  297. pat January 17th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    “And he’ll think of it as a business to when he goes to another team.”

    If they have a better offer for him, yes. From all reports, players turn the page easier than fans do.

  298. djsunyc January 17th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 11:50 am
    If Pineda becomes a number 3 starter and Montero goes on to have years hitting 35 bombs, 100 plus RBIs and hits 290 would people be ok with that?

    ————-

    pineda can be .500 – we will still make the playoffs. if he’s 4-0 in the postseason, then that trumps everything…

  299. Triple Short of a Cycle January 17th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Chip,

    The Yankees were top 3 in pitching stats last year in the AL. Of course they weren’t going to get Colon’s first half and maybe not all of what Garcia gave us but is Hughes going to give us nothing again and they did add Kuroda and Nova should give us a full season of what he gave us in the second half of last year. While they wouldn’t have had a bona fide number 2 guy I thought with the Kuroda signing they had enough pitching to make the playoffs.

    Tex basically gave us the same performance he gave the year before so I don’t really know how down a performance it really was especially since his counting stats were there. Ok Arod gave us little production and should give us a better season but does anyone expect him to stay healthy for a full year?

    I knew the writing was on the wall last year which is why I came on here and said I don’t expect Montero to make it to spring training with us. I just think they didn’t really give him a fair shot to catch and I think Girardi had a lot to do with that. Much like they didn’t give Joba a fair chance yet Hughes keeps on getting chance after chance.

    Time will tell I guess

  300. DONNYBROOK January 17th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Cashman lamented about Pujols having a swing like Montero. At the same time, The Yanks were trumpeting that Noesi was throwing 97MPH in Winter Ball. Strange how both got traded. Typical Yankee Clap Trap. As the age old saying goes, “Don’t believe the hype”.

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