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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Looking everywhere for the next Mariano

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 26, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Two years before he became the Yankees closer, Mariano Rivera was a spot starter and middle reliever, and not an especially good one. The next year he became a dominant setup man. The next year he took over the ninth inning. Two years after that he led the league in saves.

Who’s next in line? It really is impossible to say.

Rivera has set the bar impossibly high for the next Yankees closer, and he’s also crafted his own cautionary tale about considering all possibilities and ignoring early expectations.

Two years before Rivera took over, would you have picked him for the job?

As Rob wrote in today’s Pinch Hitter post, Dave Robertson has emerged as perhaps the most legitimate heir the Yankees have ever seen. He’s young and he’s quickly gained legitimate big league experience (with legitimate big league success). I was covering minor league baseball when Mark Melancon was thought to be the Yankees future closer, but it never came together for him in the Bronx, and his greatest role might have been overshadowing Robertson, leaving the Yankees with something of a secret weapon.

Robertson’s not a secret anymore. Joba Chamberlain was never secret and Rafael Soriano is one of the biggest-name relievers in the game. If this really is Rivera’s last season, those three are the most obvious candidates to take ownership of the ninth. But what if Phil Hughes is crowded out of the rotation and thrives again the bullpen? What if some unforeseen circumstance forces Dellin Betances into the big league bullpen, and he dominates?

There will never be another Mariano Rivera. The best the Yankees can do is hope for another legitimate closer, and the best-there-ever-was has taught them to look everywhere.

Associated Press photo

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324 Responses to “Looking everywhere for the next Mariano”

  1. comet January 26th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    comet January 26th, 2012 at 11:59 am
    Shame welcome to our Spring Training Jaunt 2012 edition.

    Get ready for some sun and fun and baseball too.

    MTU the Superstitions? Were they armed when they went. They looked foreboding to me.

    Palm Desert might just be our future winter residence although I think Phoenix is more affordable and thus more likely.

    I like the idea of Choo but don’t see the Indians moving him.

  2. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    See this is why I feel bad for whomever takes over for Rivera and why I don’t think that person will be long for the job:

    Yankee fans have gotten so spoiled by Rivera that anything less than perfection will be looked upon as an utter disappointment.

    First of all we wouldn’t tolerate some joker like K-Rod or the knucklehead from Detroit with all the dancing on the mound. We wouldn’t settle for someone who has to have perfect closer conditions to pitch and the first time he blew two saves in a row we would be looking for the next guy.

    Replacing the best who ever was is not easy. Replacing him in New York is even harder.

  3. comet January 26th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    I like DRob IF he can cut the Bases on Balls!

  4. comet January 26th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Two Polish hunters

    Two Polish hunters got a pilot to fly them into the Canadian wilderness, where they managed to bag two big Bull Moose.

    As they were loading the plane to return, the pilot said the plane could take only the hunters, their gear and one Moose.

    The hunters strongly objected saying, “Last year we shot two, and the pilot let us take them both… and he had exactly the same airplane as yours.”

    Reluctantly the pilot, not wanting to be outdone by another bush pilot, gave in and everything was loaded. However, even under full power, the little plane couldn’t handle the load and went down, crashing in the wooded wilderness.

    Somehow, surrounded by the moose, clothing and sleeping bags, Stosh and Stan survived the crash.

    After climbing out of the wreckage, Stosh asked Stan, “Any idea where we are?”

    Stan replied, “I think we’re pretty close to where we crashed last year !!!”

  5. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Robertson was arguably more valuable than Rivera last year so I don’t see why he couldn’t be the closer.

  6. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Personally, I would like to see the Yankees stop using the traditional closer role after Mo retires. Don’t even bother trying to replace him, just start using the bullpen more efficiently.

    There would never be a better time to make that transition.

  7. RMS January 26th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Hughes value is low, won’t get much for him.

    I like Damon for DH. Good clutch hitter, good clubhouse guy, has played here before.

    Robertson for closer.

  8. MTU January 26th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Comet-

    :) :)

    reply for you in the previous thread.

  9. hardwired7 January 26th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Much ado about nothing. We already have our next closer – one Rafael Soriano.

    *runs for cover*

  10. MTU January 26th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    RMS-

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Hughes value may not be as low as you think it is.

    JMO.

    ;)

  11. 108 stitches January 26th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    The Great Mariano’s tools have consisted of a superb cutter and consistant pitching mechanics. Like Greg Maddux, they learned as their velocity dipped that the nipping of corners in the strike zone is most important.
    There’s help in the farm system when Soriano is gone. If Chamberlain finds himself, he a possibility. Keep D-Rob in his present role but pay him his worth.

  12. DONNYBROOK January 26th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Brian Kenny is going to be doing a saber piece on the bullpen tonight on MLB Network. He’s supposed to be pushing the idea of a teams best reliever Not being used exclusively in the 9th inning.

  13. 86w183 January 26th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    I see no reason to change to a closer by committee approach.

    What successful team does that?

    It’s easy to find a capable closer… Joba, Soriano, Robertson and Hughes could all handle it.

    Finding a closer that’ll get to Cooperstown is another issue.

  14. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    When people say they’d like to keep Robertson in his current role, I understand that, but if that’s the way to go with your best reliever (at least once Mo has retired), why wasn’t Mo used that way?

  15. willwill January 26th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Hughes is still young and relatively cheap, it really serves no purpose to trade him, unless they get a comparably cheap good hitter. Hughes has shown glimpses of his dominance and he does so mostly out of the Pen, so that tells me. If i am the yankees i am not going to dump him, he was lights out in the bullpen, those guys are 10 mil a year too in the long run… With the new salary cap, it’s important to be smart with your money now.

  16. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    86w – What I refer to is not “closer by committee”. I’m talking about not using a “closer” at all. Bring your best reliever in the game when it is on the line. If you starter comes out in the 7th inning and gives up 2 hits, don’t hope it will still be a lead 3 innings from now. Shut down that inning with your best reliever.

  17. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Closer by committee .. depends on your definition.

    In my opinion there should no longer be a “closer” an “eighth inning guy”, etc. There should be one bullpen ace who is used in the highest leverage situations whether that’s the 7th, 8th or 9th inning. Mariano would be that guy right now. The rest of your relievers would be used based on matchups or if the ace has already been used.

    Basically, it makes the most sense to give your best reliever the most innings and the most high leverage innings. The 9th inning is a lot of the time not really the most important to winning the game.

  18. Erin January 26th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    D-Rob for closer.

    But this is all moot, since Mo is never retiring. #denial :P

  19. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    “There should be one bullpen ace who is used in the highest leverage situations whether that’s the 7th, 8th or 9th inning”

    True, but it won’t happen with Girardi.

  20. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    but if that’s the way to go with your best reliever (at least once Mo has retired), why wasn’t Mo used that way?

    Because Tony La Russa ruined baseball and then someone came up with a stat to differentiate 1 inning from the rest and then players realized they could make more money by getting more of that stat than someone else.

  21. DaSaint007 January 26th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    I’ll worry about Rivera’s replacement when Mo officially announces he’s retiring.

  22. comet January 26th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    MTU I have friends in Palm Desert and they say the same thing. I too would prefer to be out of the big city. It all comes down to available $$ I’m afraid. No longer working so income is not going to rise much.

  23. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Won’t be a a next Mariano. Doesn’t mean the Yankees won’t have a good closer. Just means there will almost certainly be nobody who comes along, for the Yankees or otherwise, and is as consistently good for as long as Rivera’s been.

  24. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    True, but it won’t happen with Girardi.

    Unfortunately you are right. Girardi is definitely a LaRussa disciple

  25. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    2014 Estimated Roster assuming that the arbitration players reach their maximum potential

    We start with
    Arod- 26
    Mark – 23.1
    CC: 24.3
    Jeter: 3 / 8
    Gardner: 6
    Robertson: 6
    Pineda: 6
    Nova: 6
    Nunez: 2
    Cervelli: 3

    So we have 110 million for

    CC
    Pineda
    Nova
    SP4
    SP5

    C
    Teixeira
    2B
    Jeter
    A-rod
    Gardner
    CF
    RF
    DH

    Robertson
    SU
    RL
    RL
    RL
    LM

    Nunez
    Cervelli
    BN
    BN
    BN

  26. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Need to spend 69 million (to be safe from A-rod’s milestone, though its a marketing agreement so I’m not sure if it counts against the luxury tax or not) on 2 Starters, C, 2B, CF, RF, DH, 5 Relievers, and 3 Bench players.

    I think the Yankees are not smart enough to avoid spending huge on a bullpen, so I expect atleast 10 million for the pen, either for a collection of LOOGYs / RHP or 1 veteran closer/SU

    so 59, 25 Mil for Cano.

    24 Mil for 2 SP, C, CF, RF, DH, and 3 Bench players

  27. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    patrick – Do you agree that this moment in time, with the greatest “closer” ever stepping away from the game… could there be a better time to move forward into what we both believe is the better way of handling your bullpen?

    Certainly shouldn’t end up with any $13mil relievers in that system :)

    rich – I sort of agree, it’s a drastic change and Girardi is pretty good with his bullpen as it is. I just find it to be an opportune time to take the organization a philosophical step forward. Everyone made a huge deal about Billy Beane and “Moneyball” but all he really figured out was to target players the Yankee’s were already targeting, just cheaper versions of them that the other clubs in baseball were not taking advantage of.

    This could be one of those things for the Yankees, and for an organization with their financial might to have a strategic advantage like that, it could translate very well on the field. It could also translate well with the fans, because trying to have someone step into Mo’s shoes is going to be a rough ride for a lot of years.

    jerkface – That’s gotta be the best description of the closer role I’ve read yet :)

  28. RadioKev January 26th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    I do think if we have a capable, imperfect closer, most fans will cut the guy slack. There will never be another Mo. If Robertson continues to have seasons like 2011 as our closer, sign me up. He also has a similar “humble” personality, he’s such an easy guy to cheer for.

    Remember Rivera in this past post season? Didn’t he throw something like 9 pitches, all for strikes, and recorded 4 outs? It was ridiculous.

  29. Shame Spencer January 26th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    At first glance I thought the title of this thread was “Looking everywhere for the next Montero” and I was on the verge of tears…

  30. hardwired7 January 26th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Mo has pitched for 17 seasons. In 11 of those, his e.r.a. is under 2.

    Those are dead ball era numbers. Just mind-boggling…there’s really no sense in trying to find another one, because it’s just not happening.

  31. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    jerkface – $10mil isn’t that much money to allocate to 12-13 players.

  32. PittsburghYankeeFan January 26th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    With Hughes, his first FA year is 2014. This becomes important.

    Here is the latest from Cots, without Russell Martin’s $7.8M for 2012.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

    Commitments for 2014 are currently $75M.

    Assume they sign Granderson and Cano to long term contracts (5yrs?) at $17M AAV each. That’s $34 M, up to $109M.

    Assume they sign Russell Martin to 3 years, $9M AAV. Up to $118M.

    In arb to Robertson, Pineda, Gardner, and Nova they tie up $20-25M. Now at $143M.

    Say $6M to the rest of the 40 man guys, etc, maybe a vet for the bench. Now at $149M.

    FA are Joba and Hughes.

    With the remaining $40 million, they need potentially (1) a starter, (2) a SS, (3) a 3B (ARod will be 39), (4) a RF, and (5) perhaps a BP arm/closer.

    How would you spend that last $40 million? You answers will determine how you deal with Hughes and Joba in 2012 and 2013 as trade bait.

  33. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    jerkface – meaning, it’s perfect not that you should allocate more. :)

  34. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Do you agree that this moment in time, with the greatest “closer” ever stepping away from the game… could there be a better time to move forward into what we both believe is the better way of handling your bullpen?

    Yeah it would be great but Girardi (or really any other coach) has shown no willingness to do so.

  35. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    24 Mil for 2 SP, C, CF, RF, DH, and 3 Bench players

    Lets assume 1 of Banuelos / Betances is a starter and we get a garcia type in FA for 3 million.

    21 MIL for C, CF, RF, DH, and 3 Bench

    Its getting iffy now. 4 pretty big positions and only 21 mil to go around.

  36. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    ” You answers will determine how you deal with Hughes and Joba in 2012 and 2013 as trade bait.”

    Unless you re-establish some real value, you’d be giving them away, which makes no sense.

  37. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    FWIW I happen to think Betances is more available now than he was before the Pineda trade.

    ————————————————————————–

    Definitely. But I think Cash will probably want to hold onto him as long as he can or at least until we know what’s needed at the deadline. Personally I would offer Damon $4MM. They’re over the tax threshold anyway and he was a very popular player.

    I think the goal is to have CC + 4 cheap guys come 2014 with (fingers-crossed) Pineda & Nova being 2 of them. This season might be Hughes last shot (if he’s not traded first)

  38. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I did a bad maths, 31 mil for C, Cf, Rf, DH,and 3 Bench

  39. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Assume they sign Granderson and Cano to long term contracts (5yrs?) at $17M AAV each. That’s $34 M, up to $109M.

    This is incredible wishful thinking that Cano won’t expect to be paid 20+ million as a very good offensive and defensive player at a position of scarcity.

  40. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “I did a bad maths, 31 mil for C, Cf, Rf, DH,and 3 Bench”

    Which is why I wouldn’t re-sign Swisher.

  41. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    24 Mil for 2 SP, C, CF, RF, DH, and 3 Bench players

    My hope is that those 2 SP are Banuelos and Betances .. both cost controlled. Catcher is a tough one.. I guess Romine? Would Murphy or Sanchez be ready by then?

    CF and RF … I am pretty sure the Yankees will extend at least one of Swisher / Granderson so that’s probably $15 million of your $24 million. I doubt Mason Williams will be ready by 2014. So who fills the other outfield spot? Maybe the Yankees could make another trade for a cost controlled young player.

    That leaves DH and 3 bench players.

    Yeah I don’t think they can get under that threshold without the team suffering. Those huge deals to aging players really hurts, especially that A-rod deal.

  42. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Hughes/Nova/Burnett/Garcia are the guys that can/will be moved at the AS break to fill needs… not the B’s. I don’t think they are going anywhere until they fail in the majors for the Yankees. With 2014 looming, it would be smart to only have to pay 8 figure money to 1 or 2 starting pitchers until the contracts not written under this new CBA pass through the system.

  43. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Assume they sign Granderson and Cano to long term contracts (5yrs?) at $17M AAV each.

    ==========================================

    Why would you assume Cano would agree to either 5 years or $17M AAV in today’s environment?

    I think that’s going to be more like 7/8 years, $22M/$23M AAV territory.

  44. 86w183 January 26th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Closing is as much mental as it is physical. Defining roles in the context of a game is an important thing for the players. The idea that you use your “best” reliever in varying roles is not sensible.

    The most important out in baseball is the 27th. You need to know who is your best guy to get THAT out.

    Have a day gang! I’m outa here

  45. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    The most important out in baseball is the 27th.

    I do not believe this to be true. The most important out in baseball is the one that stops runners on base from scoring.

  46. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    I would hope that Cashman doesn’t spend a lot of money on the bullpen. It seems like he’s getting a bit better there, although I guess we can’t guarantee that Levine won’t be a douche and waste money on another Soriano type

  47. Pat M. January 26th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    According to a friend of mine who I worked out with this morning who I’ve known since our Connie Mack coaching days, says people are going to be blown away when they see Phillip Hughes…..He ran into to him at Foothill HS in Tustin the other day running laps on the track……

  48. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    You need to know who is your best guy to get THAT out.

    Anyone, because almost anyone can get 1 out. The last out needs to be taken in context. Almost any reliever in baseball can get a save with a 3 run lead.

  49. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    ” The most important out in baseball is the one that stops runners on base from scoring.”

    I would add: when the game is likely on the line (i.e., leverage), which obviously isn’t always the last out of the game.

  50. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    It seems like he’s getting a bit better there

    He gave 8 million to whats his face, LOOGY McGee over there

  51. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    You can defeat a team mentally before the last out. Having your best reliever close down their ‘big scoring opportunity’.

  52. Shame Spencer January 26th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Personally I’d extend Cano for a crazy AAV if he would sign for nothing more lengthy than a 6 year deal.

  53. comet January 26th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Don’t Rivera will call it a day if he still has the goods this year. Do think he’ll go year to year though.

  54. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    He gave 8 million to whats his face, LOOGY McGee over there

    Well 2 years 8 million is better than what he gave Marte, Gordon, Quantrill, etc

  55. Shame Spencer January 26th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Pat M. January 26th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    According to a friend of mine who I worked out with this morning who I’ve known since our Connie Mack coaching days, says people are going to be blown away when they see Phillip Hughes…..He ran into to him at Foothill HS in Tustin the other day running laps on the track……
    ———————

    We’ve seen/heard a lot of really great off season stuff re: Hughes and Joba…

  56. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    you can argue about Dave Robertson’s value all you want (I’m not even going to get into the “he was more valuable that Rivera” nonsense) the point remains that replacing Rivera isn’t as easy as slotting your next best reliever into his role.

    Even if we take for granted that Robertson would handle the mental aspect of going from set up man to closer and that over the next season he continues his performance progression – Robertson is not, nor is he likely ever going to be, as good as Rivera. Which isn’t the same as saying he wouldn’t be a good closer – he just won’t be what we’ve come to expect from the closer spot. To think any thing else is stupidity on the fans’ part and unfair to Robertson.

    My guess, if he’s on the roster – Raf Soriano gets first crack at replacing Rivera based on his past track record as a closer.

  57. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    The most important out in baseball is the 27th.

    ========================

    Bottom 8th, Yankees lead Chicago 3-2, 2 outs, men on 2nd and 3rd, Konerko at the plate. Robertson comes on to strike him out.

    Yankees score 2 in their half of the 9th

    Rivera comes on with a 5-2 lead and gets the save

    Which out was most important?

  58. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Personally I’d extend Cano for a crazy AAV if he would sign for nothing more lengthy than a 6 year deal.

    They should be trying to extend him right now. He makes 14 mil and 15 mil the next 2 seasons. Give him 6 and 5 million extra *right now* and 6 years after that at 20 million a year. See if he would go for it. It would save them hella money. They could even backload it to help out in 2014.

  59. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    “My guess, if he’s on the roster – Raf Soriano gets first crack at replacing Rivera based on his past track record as a closer.”

    If AJ is the 5th starter this year, you are almost certainly correct.

  60. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Oh, and as for those of you who want the Yankees to do away with the traditional role of closer; my suggestion is as follows:

    Buy a lotto ticket, win, invest wisely, 10 years from now buy a ML baseball team and name yourself the GM.

    That’s the only way it’s going to happen.

  61. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    My guess, if he’s on the roster – Raf Soriano gets first crack at replacing Rivera based on his past track record as a closer.

    If the Yankees believe this nonsense (Raffy was a closer for like 1 year, omg must replace Rivera hes not even that good) then thats +15 million for the BP. So lets say 20 million total. Now we have 21 million for CF, RF, DH, C, and 4 bench spots great

  62. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    I’m not even going to get into the “he was more valuable that Rivera” nonsense

    Except he was. Lower ERA, more innings, much higher K/9

  63. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    The most important out in baseball is the 27th.

    ========================

    Bottom 8th, Yankees lead Chicago 3-2, 2 outs, men on 2nd and 3rd, Konerko at the plate. Robertson comes on to strike him out.

    Yankees score 2 in their half of the 9th

    Rivera comes on with a 5-2 lead and gets the save

    Which out was most important?
    ——————-

    The last one is always the most important out – up until it is recorded the other team still has a chance to rally and win.

  64. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    No one will ever replace Rivera, but on a season per season basis it is possible to have relievers/closers outperform Rivera. Rivera has had very few ‘best relief seasons ever’. He doesnt have a perfect save season. His awesomeness is from being both great AND long lasting. That is why he is the best, he is non volatile in a position of volatility. The Yankees can certainly find a reliever to be as good as Mariano was for his career for 1 season or even 2 or 3. Its going to be alot of people closing for the Yankees the next 20-30 years…

  65. Pat M. January 26th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Shame……The only thing I’ve heard about Joba was from SJ44 last week who says that Joba has been busting it this winter…..The injury may have openned his eyes somewhat

  66. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    The last one is always the most important out – up until it is recorded the other team still has a chance to rally and win.

    Roll eyes.

  67. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    My guess, if he’s on the roster – Raf Soriano gets first crack at replacing Rivera based on his past track record as a closer.

    If the Yankees believe this nonsense (Raffy was a closer for like 1 year, omg must replace Rivera hes not even that good) then thats +15 million for the BP. So lets say 20 million total. Now we have 21 million for CF, RF, DH, C, and 4 bench spots great
    ———-

    Well since the Yankees have to pay Soriano unless he opts out of the contract I don’t see how him being the set-up man decreases the Yankee payroll.

  68. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    They could even backload it to help out in 2014

    ========================

    Backloading doesn’t help. Luxury tax number is all about AAV.

  69. LGY January 26th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    The Phil Hughes BSOHL stories should be fun during ST.

  70. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    “The last one is always the most important out – up until it is recorded the other team still has a chance to rally and win.”

    They have a better chance to win in the 7th down by one with men on 2B and 3B and their best hitters coming up then they do down by 3 with their worst hitters coming up in the 9th.

  71. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Well since the Yankees have to pay Soriano unless he opts out of the contract I don’t see how him being the set-up man decreases the Yankee payroll.

    For 2014 I’m assuming they would re-sign him.

  72. Pat M. January 26th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Jerkface, Rivera’s Octobers are what’s going to be impossible to replace….

  73. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    The last one is always the most important out – up until it is recorded the other team still has a chance to rally and win.

    Roll eyes.
    —————-

    Roll them all you want – but while you’re at it why don’t you tell me what part of the statement is untrue?

  74. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Backloading doesn’t help. Luxury tax number is all about AAV.

    I forgot that :x

  75. RadioKev January 26th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Personally I’d extend Cano for a crazy AAV if he would sign for nothing more lengthy than a 6 year deal.
    ———-

    Sure, the problem is that most players want the years.

  76. Joe from Long Island January 26th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Pat M. – here’ hoping Phil blows a lot of people away.

  77. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Roll them all you want – but while you’re at it why don’t you tell me what part of the statement is untrue?

    ======================

    The part about the last out ALWAYS being the most important.

  78. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Well since the Yankees have to pay Soriano unless he opts out of the contract I don’t see how him being the set-up man decreases the Yankee payroll.

    For 2014 I’m assuming they would re-sign him.
    ———————–

    Why would you assume that?

    I would guess whether or not the Yankees re-signed Soriano would be based much the same on their decision as to whether or not they re-signed John Wetteland. How much does he want? How good was he? What are our other options?

    I am saying that as things stand today – my guess is that if Rivera retires at the end of this year and if he’s still on the roster Rafael Soriano will be the closer in 2013.

  79. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “The Phil Hughes BSOHL stories should be fun during ST.”

    It’s great to hear he’s in shape, but he needs a 3rd pitch.

  80. Erin January 26th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Gossip Break: Yankee broadcaster edition (I’m bored, forgive me ;) )

    Pix11Jodi jodi applegate
    #HGTV producers held @RealMichaelKay & me in hallway until big reveal or our apt de-design. See it Saturday 8:30pm ET! http://twitter.com/Pix11Jodi/s.....89/photo/1

  81. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Why would you assume that?

    Because if they are giving Soriano the closer job based on reputation/salary and he succeeds why wouldn’t they re-sign him?

  82. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Almost any reliever in baseball can get a save with a 3 run lead.

    You can defeat a team mentally before the last out. Having your best reliever close down their ‘big scoring opportunity’.

    This. Jerkface nailed 2 major points there.

    If you had bases loaded no outs in the 7th inning, would you trust anyone more than you would trust Mo to get out of that jam? Aren’t getting those 3 outs more important than having Mo still sitting in your bullpen in the 9th because the game is now tied or you are losing?

    When the Yankees are losing and they get base-runners in the 7th or 8th innings… aren’t you saying to yourself “man we need to score now or _____ will come in and shut us down”… what if he just came in and shut down your base-runners now… instead of hoping his team will still have a lead later? base-runners gone, opportunity wiped away.

    If your best reliever was brought in to face the 3 4 5 hitters whenever they came up in the 7th-9th innings… wouldn’t that work out better waiting until the 9th inning to bring in your best reliever and having him possibly face the 7 8 9 with a 3 run lead?

    I wonder which transition will happen in baseball first… the leverage efficient bullpen or the pitcher not batting 9th in the NL… or the elimination of the pitcher hitting altogether… or lasers for strikezones…

    Ahh the future, can’t wait.

  83. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Roll them all you want – but while you’re at it why don’t you tell me what part of the statement is untrue?

    ======================

    The part about the last out ALWAYS being the most important.
    —————-

    Ask the 1996 Braves
    1997 Indians
    1999 Padres
    2001 Yankees

    and a host of other teams if they would agree or disagree with that statement.

  84. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    “Pix11Jodi jodi applegate”

    I realize I have issues, but that pic makes no sense.

  85. willwill January 26th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    I have to agree cano when he needs signed is 22-24 million unless something happens bad ..

  86. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Why would you assume that?

    Because if they are giving Soriano the closer job based on reputation/salary and he succeeds why wouldn’t they re-sign him?
    —————-

    Well…Wetteland succeeded in 1996 and they didn’t re-sign him right? Guy was World Series MVP and the next year he was in Texas.

  87. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Jerkface, Rivera’s Octobers are what’s going to be impossible to replace….

    =============================

    Same principal applies. Nobody will be as consistently good over time in the postseason as Rivera, but many will be as good for a much shorter period of time.

  88. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Ask the 1996 Braves
    1997 Indians
    1999 Padres
    2001 Yankees

    and a host of other teams if they would agree or disagree with that statement.
    __

    Where was the earlier inning high leverage situation in those series?

  89. willwill January 26th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Call me crazy, but i wanna find a way to get abreu back

  90. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    I realize I have issues, but that pic makes no sense.

    Seriously. How is that even possible? Looking at that picture hurts my brain.

  91. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Mariano has faced the bottom of a lineup more than he has faced the top or heart of a lineup in his career, think about that misuse of a great talent.

  92. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Chip – 2001 Yankees… the bullpen was used the way we are talking about, it just happened to be in the 9th inning. He failed anyway because Luis was so roided out that year he hit a ball to the outfield off of a broken bat handle. Not the best example, maybe a better example of how often that last out doesn’t actually matter?

  93. LGY January 26th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Personally, I just think it’s disrespectful to your teammates and coaches to show up out of shape or overweight.

    But it has been shown a few times the BSOHL stuff impacting performance is basically BS.

    Amare Stoudemire and Toney Douglas showed up at Knicks camp in the best shape of their lives. Unfortunately, they’ve chucked enough bricks this season to fill ST Jetersburg.

  94. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    LGY – But it has been shown a few times the BSOHL stuff impacting performance is basically BS.

    I would rather rely on someone in the BSOHL panning out than a fat guy overachieving :)

  95. Howe Farr January 26th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Mariano has faced the bottom of a lineup more than he has faced the top or heart of a lineup in his career, think about that misuse of a great talent.

    __________________________________________________________________

    Amen!

  96. RadioKev January 26th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    I wonder which transition will happen in baseball first… the leverage efficient bullpen or the pitcher not batting 9th in the NL… or the elimination of the pitcher hitting altogether… or lasers for strikezones…
    ————-

    Uhhh..what’s wrong with pinch hitting?

    I’d bet that bullpen efficiency will occur in the future.

  97. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Uhhh..what’s wrong with pinch hitting?

    Pitchers hitting

  98. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Chip – 2001 Yankees… the bullpen was used the way we are talking about, it just happened to be in the 9th inning. He failed anyway because Luis was so roided out that year he hit a ball to the outfield off of a broken bat handle. Not the best example, maybe a better example of how often that last out doesn’t actually matter?
    ————————–

    How did the last out not matter in that game? Whether he was roided up or not the Yankees had to get 27 outs to win and they didn’t. The game was not called when a rally was killed in the 8th was it?

  99. RadioKev January 26th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    But it has been shown a few times the BSOHL stuff impacting performance is basically BS.
    ————-

    I don’t believe that. I think it’s fair to say BSOHL is a laughable cliche, but it can certainly impact performance. Look at Lance Berkman. BSOHL and rededication can work for guys.

  100. RadioKev January 26th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:52 pm
    Uhhh..what’s wrong with pinch hitting?

    Pitchers hitting
    ——

    Ahhhh. Now I get it..

  101. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Just looking at the roster and potential construction, its going to be very very hard for Cashman to have a Yankee roster in 2014 that beats the luxury tax and still be one of the top teams. If only because so much money will be tied up into old and (likely) not very good players.

  102. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Mariano has faced the bottom of a lineup more than he has faced the top or heart of a lineup in his career, think about that misuse of a great talent.
    —————–

    Yes I think what Torre and Girardi should have done is started Rivera in at least 60 – 80 games, let him go out and get the first three guys out and then bring in your “starter” to go innings 2 – 8 and then turn it over to someone else in the 9th.

    That’s the way the game should be played!

    And that friends is an example of sarcasm for those of you who are unfamiliar with it.

  103. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Just looking at the roster and potential construction, its going to be very very hard for Cashman to have a Yankee roster in 2014 that beats the luxury tax and still be one of the top teams. If only because so much money will be tied up into old and (likely) not very good players.
    ————————–

    Can we get through the 2012 season before worrying about the lead up to 2014?

  104. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    BSOHL and rededication can work for guys.

    Sure 1 guy, but how about all the BSOHL guys that didnt work out? There have been studies done. BSOHL guys can usually maintain performance and offset decline, but its no guarantee of great success.

  105. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “I don’t believe that. I think it’s fair to say BSOHL is a laughable cliche, but it can certainly impact performance. Look at Lance Berkman. BSOHL and rededication can work for guys.”

    But is there a significant correlation? IDK. It may be higher for veterans with fully developed skillsets. And it may well help Hughes, but as much as a third pitch? I doubt it.

  106. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    says people are going to be blown away when they see Phillip Hughes

    —————————————————————-

    That’s good news. He really needs to step it up these next two seasons. Big $$$ is the horizon.

  107. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    How many times have the Yankees lost a lead in the 7th or 8th inning and went on to lose the game with Mariano never throwing a pitch?

    The last out in the 9th is important… if you get there with a lead. There are many times in which the Yankees lose a lead before they get there due to poor bullpen management.

  108. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Can we get through the 2012 season before worrying about the lead up to 2014?

    No, because the question was posed to discuss the theoretical 2014 payroll in regards to beating the luxury tax, so thats what I’m doing. Feel free to go away if you don’t like the discussion.

  109. DONNYBROOK January 26th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Every save Mo gets sets a new MLB record. The Yanks aint gonna monkey around and deprieve Mo of whatever that number stops at. Once Mo’s gone, THEN maybe.

  110. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    And that friends is an example of sarcasm for those of you who are unfamiliar with it.

    Not sure how you went from ‘Mariano pitches to the weakest hitters more than the strongest hitters’ to ‘LOL START MARIANO LOL SARCASM LOOK AT HOW DUMB THIS IS’? You think its the best use of Rivera to face the bottom of the order for 200 more PA than the actually tough outs?

  111. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Chip – It did matter, but it’s the wrong way to make the point you are trying to make. In that game Mo was used exactly the way we are asking. He was actually brought in the beginning of the 8th inning to face Luis and struck out their 3 4 and 6 hitters. This would be the high leverage situation we are talking about. Bringing him back out for a second inning may have been the real mistake… but that 9th was a pretty flukey inning to begin with.

    He was actually only undone because of Tino’s error. I just like to hate Luis Gonzalez instead.

  112. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    How many times have the Yankees lost a lead in the 7th or 8th inning and went on to lose the game with Mariano never throwing a pitch?

    The last out in the 9th is important… if you get there with a lead. There are many times in which the Yankees lose a lead before they get there due to poor bullpen management.
    ————

    Ok, by that same token you can say every out is equally important – if the Red Sox have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out in the third and Ortiz up should the Yankees pull their starter for Rivera at that point?

    The last outs of the game are the only ones you can’t come back from – that’s what makes them the most important ones.

  113. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    The 2014 luxury tax threshold is having significant effect on the 2012 team so it’s a pretty valid conversation to have IMO.

    Cashman himself said yesterday that a significant factor in trading for Pineda was because he’s a cost controlled player. He spoke at length that the contracts currently on the books are hurting his ability to go sign big time players in the present and future. It’s pretty obvious that the Yankees have reached their spending ceiling, and the trade for Pineda strongly indicates that the ceiling is going down.

  114. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Ok, by that same token you can say every out is equally important – if the Red Sox have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out in the third and Ortiz up should the Yankees pull their starter for Rivera at that point?

    No because you already have your best pitcher in the game at that point. A rested starter is supposed to be better than any reliever you have.

  115. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Ok, by that same token you can say every out is equally important – if the Red Sox have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out in the third and Ortiz up should the Yankees pull their starter for Rivera at that point?

    This is so dumb. Chip you aren’t really this dumb.

  116. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Why don’t they bring Mariano into the 9th inning of every game because its so important? He needs to throw 162+ innings every year.

  117. Pat M. January 26th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Doc Joe….One thing Lou mentioned this morning was that PH told him that about half way thru the 2010 season there were times that he felt like he hit a wall……..As though his arm got heavy for a few weeks and this happened several times…..After the 2010 season he was gassed and decided to just rest and broke away from his normal routine…….The inning increase from his his role as a reliever in 09 had an effect last season…….I have to think Cashman sees this and he doesn’t go back to the pen…….There’s talent in that right arm and lot’s a zeal in his heart….

  118. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    See I can make a dumb hyperbole too.

  119. stuckey January 26th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    BSOHL is certainly a journalist cliche’ and there is likely little evidence there is positive correlation between this and performance.

    But on the other hand, we can’t have it both ways as a community. We can’t criticize players for being out of shape but dismiss them being or getting into shape.

    Not accusing anyone of doing both, just saying if we’re going to watchdog, we have to be equal opportunity.

  120. RadioKev January 26th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    “I don’t believe that. I think it’s fair to say BSOHL is a laughable cliche, but it can certainly impact performance. Look at Lance Berkman. BSOHL and rededication can work for guys.”

    But is there a significant correlation? IDK. It may be higher for veterans with fully developed skillsets. And it may well help Hughes, but as much as a third pitch? I doubt it.
    —————–

    I totally agree that BSOHL is generally a ridiculous cliche. But it’s a completely significant correlation, it just doesn’t produce results for everyone. Baseball is a strange sport, and certain things work and don’t for others.

  121. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Not accusing anyone of doing both, just saying if we’re going to watchdog, we have to be equal opportunity.

    I think every player should come into the season in shape. If they are in THE BEST SHAPE then that is fine, but it doesn’t mean every positive thing will happen for them. They still have to perform. I think thats a fair stance. I’ll be happy if they are in shape, displeased if they aren’t, but not overly excited if they are in the best shape ever.

  122. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Chip – It did matter, but it’s the wrong way to make the point you are trying to make. In that game Mo was used exactly the way we are asking. He was actually brought in the beginning of the 8th inning to face Luis and struck out their 3 4 and 6 hitters. This would be the high leverage situation we are talking about. Bringing him back out for a second inning may have been the real mistake… but that 9th was a pretty flukey inning to begin with.

    He was actually only undone because of Tino’s error. I just like to hate Luis Gonzalez instead.

    ———————-

    Bringing him back wasn’t a mistake since he was still the best option.

    That is part of the greatness that you lose when Rivera retires – the ability and willingness to pitch multiple innings; unlike guys like KRod or Cordero or Wagner who are only 3 out closers.

    I have no problem with using a closer for multiple innings – I find the notion of using him in the 7th inning and then pulling him for a lesser reliever later in the game laughable.

    As I said, if you give up the lead in the 7th you still have at bats to come back – if you give up the lead in the bottom of the 9th you don’t.

  123. m January 26th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Hughes is a starter IMO. But if we could get a hybrid of Hughes & Robertson we’d have our closer. Robertons sneaky stuff and Hughes control and Cali cool.

    Short of that, let Hughes start the 9th and let Robertson bail him out if necessary. :P

  124. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    chip – should the Yankees pull their starter for Rivera at that point?

    No, this would be dumb because you still need to have all 9 innings of the game pitched. There is no need for the hyperbole here. We’re not talking about pulling your starter early.

    We’re talking about when you do finally pull your starter, bringing in a reliever more appropriate to the situation than the 3rd or 4th best guy out there. Not necessarily meaning that you bring in your best guy right then and there either, if it’s the beginning of an inning you don’t need to burn your best reliever unless you only have a 1 or 2 run lead and the heart of their order coming up.

    You save “your best guy” for the heart of the order late game, or a situation where you need 1 or 2 outs with runners on base. Until then you bring out your #2, #3, #4 etc until the game is over.

  125. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Ok, by that same token you can say every out is equally important – if the Red Sox have runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out in the third and Ortiz up should the Yankees pull their starter for Rivera at that point?

    No because you already have your best pitcher in the game at that point. A rested starter is supposed to be better than any reliever you have.
    ———-

    Really? Rested AJ Burnett is better than Mariano Rivera?

  126. upstate kate January 26th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    thank you Pat M for the Phil report

  127. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Why don’t they bring Mariano into the 9th inning of every game because its so important? He needs to throw 162+ innings every year.
    ———————

    Because he would blow out his arm and that wouldn’t help your team.

  128. pat January 26th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Extending CC, Tex and Alex to $1M a year contracts with opt outs would lower AAV . If they can still play at the end of the current contract they can opt out and renegotiate here or elsewhere. If they retire the salary comes off the books anyway. Wouldn’t that work?

    Pujols deal said his marketing agreements and personal services contract with the Angels don’t count toward AAV so Alex’s probably don’t either.

  129. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Why don’t they bring Mariano into the 9th inning of every game because its so important? He needs to throw 162+ innings every year.
    ———————

    Because he would blow out his arm and that wouldn’t help your team.
    ———-

    And also because the Yankees aren’t going to have the lead going into the 9th 162 times.

  130. LGY January 26th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Pujols deal said his marketing agreements and personal services contract with the Angels don’t count toward AAV so Alex’s probably don’t either.

    ——–

    They count towards the luxury tax the year in which they are earned.

  131. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Pujols $10m personal services clause is “post retirement work” so it doesn’t count against the luxury tax ever, but the marketing agreements certainly seem to.

  132. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    They count towards the luxury tax the year in which they are earned.

    ============================

    My understanding as well.

  133. Joe from Long Island January 26th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Pat M. – thanks for the follow-up. It shows how one thing can lead to another very easily. Personally, my thought is that Cash really wants Phil to claim a starter’s job, and is reluctant to deal him because of what another (relatively) young arm can do for the team for years to come. Even though the pen is a foreign land for Freddy Garcia, I think they’d rather put him there as the 6th man, and go with Hughes. Or, even deal Garcia if something suitable comes along. It would have to be really good, though, because after dealing AJ you don’t want to be caught a starter short.

  134. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    The bonuses A-Rod and Pujols got are categorized as marketing agreements because I don’t believe you can technically give a player performance based bonuses like that per the CBA.

  135. stuckey January 26th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    “Just looking at the roster and potential construction, its going to be very very hard for Cashman to have a Yankee roster in 2014 that beats the luxury tax and still be one of the top teams.”

    Genuine question – have you looked at other rosters of presumed top teams in comparison, and are you assuming these teams will push the boundaries of the tax threshold the way we presume the Yankees will?

    Again, genuine question.

    “If only because so much money will be tied up into old and (likely) not very good players.”

    What sort of conclusion is this leading you toward JF? Again, serious question.

    Given the game’s preeminent agent is now demanding LONG term contracts for his top players almost by rule, this will seemingly bite many teams that are paying these prices eventually. Perhaps the Yankees earlier than some, but the Pujols, Crawfords (maybe Fielders) might eventually haunt the teams who signed them too.

    Do you advocate the Yankees paying their way through it? Adding more players of similar market value to take advantage of the front end of their contracts, creating a perpetual chain of inferior back-end deals?

    Do you advocate them starting to systematically avoid these type of contracts to break the cycle and try to compete like a wealthy man’s Tampa?

  136. jacksquat January 26th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    You can move Gardner from LF back to CF in 2014 if necessary, so then you are only looking for corner outfielders. Or perhaps if Mason Williams is ready early you could Gardner in LF and Williams in CF.

  137. RadioKev January 26th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    I can only hope Hughes starts or we trade him for something decent. Any other out come seems like a waste influenced by monetary decisions.

  138. LGY January 26th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Pat

    Player options must be a certain % of the AAV in order to use that strategy.

    Basic rule of thumb with the CBA:

    Any attempt the skirt or creatively counter the luxury tax has a clause in the CBA addressing your idea or strategy.

  139. Tom in N.J. January 26th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    The closer, by position and role, is only useful if your team is winning.

    The Yankees have lost 6 post season series where Rivera didn’t give up a run…

  140. DONNYBROOK January 26th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    No mention of Chamberlain returning and further log-jamming the Pen. Hughes fails to make the rotation outta ST, his option should be used and he starts the season in the AAA rotation.

  141. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    donnybrook – I believe that’s what Cashman’s statements are “preparing” people for. He will be a starter, or they will send him down and try to trade him as a starter. Either way I don’t believe he’ll be going back to the Yankees bullpen any time soon.

  142. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Do you advocate them starting to systematically avoid these type of contracts to break the cycle and try to compete like a wealthy man’s Tampa?

    They should have spent more on development. That they weren’t #1 by a mile in draft, IFA, and minor league expenses is kind of disappointing. Thats not possible now. If they try to keep their payroll down to avoid the luxury tax they have to hit on more prospects and be more patient in development, and they need some position prospects to really come on strong.

    I can see the 2014+ Yankees being more like the current Red Sox. Strong teams that can still miss the playoffs due to not being willing to pay as much as the Yankees of old.

    One of the issues with ‘spending through it’ or ‘breaking the cycle’ is that the Yankees have a culture of taking care of their own. Cano will most definitely get paid, but he will be 31 when he is a FA and they’d be better off not re-signing him.

    Maybe they’d do better as an organization that takes more risk/reward types (like the swisher and granderson deals) where they can absorb a few 10 million misses, but with less of the 25 million roster holes.

  143. DONNYBROOK January 26th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Not re-signing Cano with his vast production at the 2B position would be foolish. Cano will soon be the face of the franchise.

  144. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Not re-signing Cano with his vast production at the 2B position would be foolish. Cano will soon be the face of the franchise.

    A 31 year old Cano for 7 or 8 years? That will be swell for like 1 or 2 years. And eventually he will move to third or where ever. I think a 25 million dollar Cano for 7-8 years would be foolish.
    The Yankees got his prime years for very cheap, and have him at 29 and 30 for the next 2 years at very cheap. A smart franchise would cut and run after that.

    The Yankees probably won’t, but if the Yankees could have a guy like David Adams handle 2nd (or even just a regular FA type) for 1% of what they’d pay Cano or 25% to half for a FA and then use the excess to fill in CF and RF and DH that’d probably be better.

    Having Cano at 2nd is great… when the rest of the team is also good. Having a great defensive/offensive 2B boosts you up when you fill other offensive positions with appropriate players. If Cano is merely a substitute for RF or LF or DH or 1B then it would be better to just fill those other positions cheaper since SUPPOSEDLY its easier to get offense at those positions.

    The positional advantages of up the middle premium positions comes when you use the ‘non-premium’ positions as intended. The Yankees are not a team that needs to keep Cano at all costs because he is their only offensive producer. Like if the Royals had a best ever 2B and couldnt afford to fill out the non-premium position with average players then yea they should keep Cano, but the Yankees spend 4 times as much as the Royals they don’t NEED the positional advantage if it forces them to be sub-par in other areas.

  145. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    There is no chance that the Yankees will let Cano walk.

  146. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Can we get through the 2012 season before worrying about the lead up to 2014?

    —————————————————————————–

    One could argue that 2014 is why we’re no longer looking forward to Montero mashing for the Yanks over the next decade.

  147. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    There is no chance that the Yankees will let Cano walk.

    I agree, and it will cost them 25 million over 7-9 years and its gonna be an albatross just like A-rod.

  148. Nick in SF January 26th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    “The positional advantages of up the middle premium positions comes when you use the ‘non-premium’ positions as intended.

    Careful, some evil person might try to use that argument against Brett Gardner.

  149. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    nick – Careful, some evil person might try to use that argument against Brett Gardner.

    It’s OK I’m currently using it against Montero :) Fair is fair.

  150. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    There is no chance that the Yankees will let Cano walk.

    I agree, and it will cost them 25 million over 7-9 years and its gonna be an albatross just like A-rod.
    —————

    You’re a delight as always.

  151. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    A 31 year old Cano for 7 or 8 years? That will be swell for like 1 or 2 years. And eventually he will move to third or where ever. I think a 25 million dollar Cano for 7-8 years would be foolish

    ==================================

    I think if they acted now and extended him long term, getting his age 29-35 years in, as opposed to 31-37, there’s a reasonable argument for doing so.

  152. LGY January 26th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    The Yankees should have already signed Cano to an extension.

    They should also be looking to negotiate extensions with Nova, Gardner, and Pineda in the next year.

  153. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Careful, some evil person might try to use that argument against Brett Gardner.

    Luckily the current Yankees have Swisher, Tex, A-rod, Cano, & Granderson right now! Though It’d be better with a real DH ;)

  154. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    LGY – Agreed, this no extensions nonsense policy needs to disappear now. The checkbook can no longer be the Yankees greatest weapon.

  155. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    You’re a delight as always.

    Do you not agree that paying Cano for 31-38 @ 20+ mil will be a hindrance?

    Dogface, I agree. Extending Cano now and paying him more now so he ends his contract @ 35 would be great.

  156. stuckey January 26th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    JF,

    Not quite sure my question was clear or if I just missed the answer. But the Cano thing maybe leads me to it.

    Are you advocating the Yankees exercise more fiscal responsibility in terms of adding additional Boras-esque deals?

    If so, would you be willing to grant the Yankees a few years of less-assured postseason qualification (and perhaps even some non-qualifying years) while they make the philosophical adjustment?

  157. Nick in SF January 26th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    The Mayans’ backup prediction was that the Yankee roster would implode in 2014.

  158. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    I doubt Cano hired Boras to get an extension.

  159. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    stuckey – a few years of less-assured postseason qualification (and perhaps even some non-qualifying years)

    I think this is more likely to become a reality than an adjustment period. It’s what the league is trying to accomplish with every move they make.

  160. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    You’re a delight as always.

    Do you not agree that paying Cano for 31-38 @ 20+ mil will be a hindrance?
    ——————-

    I have honestly not given it a moment’s thought. There are many things that can happen between now and then that would make worrying about it moot.

  161. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I have honestly not given it a moment’s thought. There are many things that can happen between now and then that would make worrying about it moot.

    Hahahaha, that’s a mighty slippery answer, nice backbone… lol

    Here’s a hint, paying any player $20+ mil for the twilight of their career (glitter and all) is probably not and probably never has been a good idea.

  162. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    LGY – Agreed, this no extensions nonsense policy needs to disappear now. The checkbook can no longer be the Yankees greatest weapon.
    ——————-

    Why not?

    Based on what the Yankees are trying to do here – I would expect them to take a wait and see approach with their contracts until the 2014 season.

    By the way – I find it delightful that MLB enacts rules specifically designed to penalize 1 or 2 teams.

  163. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Chip

    Been away from the blog for a few hours. Which lefty bat was the #1 choice for the readers?

    Daniel Murphy would possibly be an excellent fit, but he’s still cheap and coming off a sprained left knee medial collateral lgament.

    By 2014 it might still be difficult to stay under the LT of 189M with Tex, CC, A-Rod and probably Jeter still on payroll for some near 80M and Cano and Granderson possibly adding another 35M or more, before filling out the rest of the 40 man roster, but I’m not going to worry about it now.

    The start of the season is a little more than 2 months away and another bat would be nice.

  164. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Nice italcs, loser. wait…

  165. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Are you advocating the Yankees exercise more fiscal responsibility in terms of adding additional Boras-esque deals?

    If so, would you be willing to grant the Yankees a few years of less-assured postseason qualification (and perhaps even some non-qualifying years) while they make the philosophical adjustment?

    If HAL really cares about how much the Yankees are spending, then yes, they should avoid more Boras-esque deals. They should operate like the Rays (extend the hell out of young players for below market deals) but with much deeper pockets, allowing for the acquisition of players like Swisher & Granderson (contracted players with high risk but high reward outcomes) and the occasional big deal (I think CC is a good deal).

    Yes, if they are going to miss the playoffs I’d rather it be because of younger players getting shuffled in than because they got stuck in a huge contract mess.

  166. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    They should also be looking to negotiate extensions with Nova, Gardner, and Pineda in the next year

    ==========================

    Never been their style, but in light of what comes with this new CBA, they may want to start considering these type of deal more often.

  167. pat January 26th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    LGY

    Would extending even just Alex $1M for a few years without an opt out be allowed by the CBA? Him retiring at the end of the regular terms should take him off the books in 2017 and lower the AAV while he’s still on the books, no?

  168. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    By the way – I find it delightful that MLB enacts rules specifically designed to penalize 1 or 2 teams

    ====================

    Enact?

    MLB doesn’t enact sh*t. Everything is collectively bargained.

    This one’s on the MLBPA. I’m a little stunned they agreed to it.

  169. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    I find it delightful that MLB enacts rules specifically designed to penalize 1 or 2 teams.

    Well, that’s what competitive balance in baseball is knocking down right now… 2 teams. The Yankees were not always the richest team in baseball though, and will not always be. Better to have the proper framework in place that allows your league to prosper than to allow the Yankees to buy their playoff birth every year, no?

    Wouldn’t you be more proud as a Yankee fan if they won the division without the highest payroll in the league?

  170. CompassRosy January 26th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    The old and the new…

    http://tinyurl.com/73q5yjn

    :-)

  171. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Yankee Trader January 26th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Chip

    Been away from the blog for a few hours. Which lefty bat was the #1 choice for the readers?

    Daniel Murphy would possibly be an excellent fit, but he’s still cheap and coming off a sprained left knee medial collateral lgament.

    By 2014 it might still be difficult to stay under the LT of 189M with Tex, CC, A-Rod and probably Jeter still on payroll for some near 80M and Cano and Granderson possibly adding another 35M or more, before filling out the rest of the 40 man roster, but I’m not going to worry about it now.

    The start of the season is a little more than 2 months away and another bat would be nice.
    —————–

    I wasn’t paying attention to who the fans voted for.

    I would say that the Yankee payroll in 2014 will be directly tied to the development of prospects between now and then.

    If Banuelos, Betances, Romine, Almonte and Heathcott or Williams or someone else are able to contribute then the Yankees will not have to re-sign or pay out money to replace Kuroda, Burnett, Soriano, Swisher, Martin et al.

    But yes – that is a worry for another day something like 2 years from now.

  172. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    The Yankpocalypse is upon us.

  173. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    The old and the new…

    http://tinyurl.com/73q5yjn

    You n’wah :x

  174. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    I find it delightful that MLB enacts rules specifically designed to penalize 1 or 2 teams.

    Well, that’s what competitive balance in baseball is knocking down right now… 2 teams. The Yankees were not always the richest team in baseball though, and will not always be. Better to have the proper framework in place that allows your league to prosper than to allow the Yankees to buy their playoff birth every year, no?

    Wouldn’t you be more proud as a Yankee fan if they won the division without the highest payroll in the league?
    —————

    I would argue that the league has been doing just fine with the Yankees having their way with things financially.

    I think the bigger issue to competitive balance is over-expansion and the refusal of some owners to spend money on their teams.

  175. LGY January 26th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Pat

    I believe that would be ok but the problem is that it would only delay payment.

    The year Alex retired in this example, the Yankees would be hit with a luxury tax bill to compensate the league for any payments they missed out on.

  176. jacksquat January 26th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    CompassRosy January 26th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
    The old and the new…

    http://tinyurl.com/73q5yjn

    Gah!!! :eek:

  177. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    chip – These are the half-a**ed solutions you get from a commissioner in bed with the owners and their desire to avoid full revenue sharing.

  178. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    I wish the Yankees could turn their financial might to milb and IFA but then the new CBA goes and ruins that too :x

    This new CBA is truly the worst

  179. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    “They should also be looking to negotiate extensions with Nova, Gardner, and Pineda in the next year.”

    As long as extension doesn’t make them less tradeable should the need/desire arise.

  180. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    chip – These are the half-a**ed solutions you get from a commissioner in bed with the owners and their desire to avoid full revenue sharing.
    ————–

    it’s nonsense – I’m more successful at my job than you so I make more money than you so I can spend more on a house than you…so you want to penalize me for that because you don’t want the big house that I’ve got, you want to force me to live in the same POS shack that you’re in.

    It’s actually worse than socialism.

  181. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    CompassRosy-

    Argh!

    Safeco is 345 down the RF line and goes out to 374 in RF. Will Montero be able to line them out over the RF wall there?

  182. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    chip – These are the half-a**ed solutions you get from a commissioner in bed with the owners and their desire to avoid full revenue sharing.

    ===========================

    Again, the MLBPA signed off on it.

    As for full revenue sharing, you think the Steinbrenners want any part of that???

  183. stuckey January 26th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    “Wouldn’t you be more proud as a Yankee fan if they won the division without the highest payroll in the league?”

    I’m not quite sure I’d put it that way, as I don’t give ass about what the media or other fans say about the Yankees. I like baseball and was programed as a youth to like the Yankees.

    But I will say this. A GREAT deal of the very palpable frustration on this forum is based the the Yankees seemingly unwillingness to corner the market on any player that could seemingly help them (let’s be real, we want every marque free agent), along with seeming frustration that a earn with their resources should have MORE WS trophies over the last decade.

    Now, you’re never going to erase frustrated, expectant fans – in the NFL it’s about cap management and drafting and you’ll find no shortage of outraged fans there, but the dynamic of what’s happening right now with the Giants doesn’t exist for the Yankees.

    Hasn’t since ’96 and never will in the current environment.

    I do wonder if perhaps there’d be more fan satisfaction in a cap league?

    Because (and this is a personal judgment) some of my fellow fans don’t seem to be having much fun with the assumption that Yankees should just reign over the baseball world annually by birthright.

    Seems to be being a Yankee fan is more looking over your shoulder than looking forward for lots and lots of my fellow fans.

  184. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    I wish the Yankees could turn their financial might to milb and IFA but then the new CBA goes and ruins that too :x

    This new CBA is truly the worst
    ——————

    Well not only does it hurt the teams but it will cripple baseball in Central and South America much like forcing Puerto Rican players to enter the draft crippled baseball there.

    Kids will turn to soccer and look to play in Europe or South America where there is no capping on salaries that can be offered to them.

    Also the penalties in the draft will push more and more athletes here to football. You’re going to get more money as a late round NFL pick than you will as a MLB pick in the long term.

  185. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Safeco is 345 down the RF line and goes out to 374 in RF. Will Montero be able to line them out over the RF wall there?

    Safeco is only 326 down the line ;) 380 to right center. Montero took Johnson deep to RF 380+ both times. He will power them out of SafeCo to right.

  186. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Rosy,

    Thank you for helping to keep us connected with our Son. Edgar will be a great mentor for him.

  187. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Don Fehr must have been shaking his head when this CBA was announced.

  188. DONNYBROOK January 26th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Cano and Boras is just bad news for the Yanks down the road. I’d work on an extension Now, and if that got sticky, move ‘em. The Boras factor is a killer in 2yrs.

  189. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Yes its a real disaster, Chip, somehow the MLBPA managed to allow defacto hard slotting & a harder soft cap. They were supposed to be a good Union…

  190. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    I doubt Cano hired Boras to get an extension.

    True, but Boras clients have done extensions. Its what the player wants, and maybe the Yankees could entice him to an extension with more money now. Pay him more now.

  191. stuckey January 26th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “These are the half-a**ed solutions you get from a commissioner in bed with the owners and their desire to avoid full revenue sharing.”

    IR, “commissioner in bed with the owners” is redundant.

    We need to get over this archaic notion the commissioners office is an independent body shepherding the game.

    He is the CEO of commercial enterprise – the paid employee whose job it is to serve the owner’s interests.

  192. Stoneburner January 26th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Cano is an “actual” generational Yankee in the making – he is not going anywhere. . . .

  193. Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Chip – It’s the responsibility of any proper “game” to create a level playing field for it’s participants. Allowing teams to spend however much money they want on payroll does not accomplish this.

    Proper revenue sharing deal can be a huge benefit to overall competitiveness in major sports leagues. Only then is the ownership alleviated of the responsibility to decide how much of their resources to spend on payroll. They can be entirely focused on developing and acquiring cost efficient talent instead. What the new football agreement just did is essentially perfect. Every football team in the league is literally handed a check for $120-something million dollars because of their TV revenue sharing deal (this actually determines the salary cap each season). Some owners were pocketing that money and putting teams ont he field at 30% of the cap. They are now being told by the league that they must spend 90% of that money every season on payroll. This forces teams to attempt to compete, because now winning and winning efficiently is the only way to “profit” off of that TV money.

    Crying “socialism” is usually just being immature or naive about the larger picture.

  194. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Can’t they find some sort of loophole in the agreement, void it, and void all trades made under the assumption it was binding?

    They can then fire Cashman and Girardi, so the universe doesn’t step in yet again to save them from trying to trade Jesus yet again.

    Stick Michael said “I never tried once to trade Jorge.” Man, we had it good back then.

  195. Crawdaddy January 26th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    “True, but Boras clients have done extensions. Its what the player wants, and maybe the Yankees could entice him to an extension with more money now. Pay him more now.”

    It doesn’t matter with the average salary per season formula and he’s going to want at least an additional 6-8 years beyond 2013.

  196. Crawdaddy January 26th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    “Stick Michael said “I never tried once to trade Jorge.” Man, we had it good back then.”

    Yet, they almost traded Jorge in the Tino trade because they wanted to hold onto Russ Davis. Luckily for them, that didn’t happen.

  197. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    They reportedly almost traded Posada in the package for Pedro.

    Now, Stick may mean him v. George.

  198. stuckey January 26th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “it’s nonsense – I’m more successful at my job than you so I make more money than you so I can spend more on a house than you…so you want to penalize me for that because you don’t want the big house that I’ve got, you want to force me to live in the same POS shack that you’re in.

    It’s actually worse than socialism.”

    Here’s the problem.

    Americans don’t seem to be mind the socialist state that is the NFL. Its by FAR the countries most successful and popular sports league and there doesn’t seem any end to their growth in site.

    Baseball would be unwise not to look to their model. Now I don’t know if they’re copying the right parts or not, but outright dismissing revenue sharing and having a cap (of some nature) is unwise given the model the NFL is making work – spectacularly.

  199. pat January 26th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    LGY

    As long as it sill counted to “reset the clock” and they didn;t have to retroactively pay 50% it would have served its pupose.

  200. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Jerkface-

    Those were the dimensions for Miller Park. My bad. Safeco is indeed 327 down the RF line and 387 in RF. How high is the wall there compared to YS ?

  201. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Rich, He may. He threatened to quit several times. The stories he tells of fights he had with Steinbrenner are hilarious.

    George respected Stick, though. As everyone probably knows by now, Stick saved George from dealing away Jeter and Rivera. He enjoys telling that story, LOL.

  202. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    It doesn’t matter with the average salary per season formula and he’s going to want at least an additional 6-8 years beyond 2013.

    I’m not talking about 2014, I’m talking about 2018 and beyond. Having Cano at age 37 and 38 isn’t good. If they could get him to extend now they should. I don’t know if Cano would go for it, or if the Yankees are trying to do it. I hope they are.

  203. kd January 26th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS

    #yankees dfa kevin whelan to make room for hiroki kuroda

    not a big loss

  204. PacoDooley January 26th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Anyone see that the A’s designated Adrian Cardenas for assignment? Very odd since he had a .314/.374/.418 at AAA last year playing SS, 2B, 3B and LF. He has had decent minor league numbers since being drafted in ’06. Could be some positional talent for the NYY??

  205. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Those were the dimensions for Miller Park. My bad. Safeco is indeed 327 down the RF line and 387 in RF. How high is the wall there compared to YS ?

    A foot shorter than NYS according to this baseball dimension website.

    Don’t watch this video if you’re feint of heart. http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......8;c_id=mlb

    91 mph outside half FB lined to right :(

  206. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    The new CBA sure didn’t hinder the little caesar guy. But Detroit’s not even close to the cap.

    Maybe the Yanks wanted it as well. It might sting that first year or two but in the long run it’s going to keep salaries in check.

    And no more dumb contracts. Do you think they’d sign Soriano under this CBA ? ARod?

  207. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Baseball would be unwise not to look to their model. Now I don’t know if they’re copying the right parts or not, but outright dismissing revenue sharing and having a cap (of some nature) is unwise given the model the NFL is making work – spectacularly.

    They shouldnt ignore the things that the NFL does well, but the NFL was locked out over player’s share of revenue and the NFL benefits from its own partnership with a giant minor league system that itself makes tons of money. And the other differences between the sports (less players on each roster, individual players being more important, etc).

  208. Jerkface January 26th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Do you think they’d sign Soriano under this CBA

    They did, its not like it would have been a surprise 1 year ago. There have been on going talks about it. And I’m not sure the CBA will put a handle on dumb contracts. Teams knew the CBA was coming and there are now more 1st basemen making 20 million dollars a year AAV than there were 20 million AAV players 5 years ago.

  209. exiledintampa January 26th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    You guys were right when you said Kevin Whelan would be DFA ed

  210. Rich in NJ January 26th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Pruf

    Yeah, that may be the difference between Stick and Cashman. Stick knew that there were players that shouldn’t be moved and worked George to ensure that it didn’t happen. Cashman makes his case, but at least reportedly (maybe we will find out differently later), and then lives with the consequences of the suits overruling him.

    The other thing is that Stick was a scout who knew talent. Cashman has admitted that he isn’t a talent evaluator, so he relies on others, and, as a result, is only as good at it is the sum of his parts.

  211. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Rich, I’m no fan of Eppler, and he seems to be a pivotal figure in these decisions.

    See his exceedingly premature “Chamberlain’s a starter” evaluation which Cashman resisted for a while and then wimped out, on.

  212. dogface January 26th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Do you think they’d sign Soriano under this CBA

    =======================

    Probably no accident he’s due to come off the books after the 2013 season.

  213. Yankee Trader January 26th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    A foot shorter than NYS according to this baseball dimension website.

    Don’t watch this video if you’re feint of heart. http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play……8;c_id=mlb

    91 mph outside half FB lined to right
    —————————
    Jerkface-

    I watched! :(

  214. CompassRosy January 26th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Just getting caught up on Mariners Media Day tweets (been in meetings all morning and now off to lunch) but thought you might find it interesting that Jesus will have a ton of company, age-wise… #TrulyBabyMs….

    65 players so far in #Mariners spring training camp. 55 of those w/ less than 5 years MLB service time. 40 of 65 have less than 1 year.

  215. Chip January 26th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Irreverent Discourse January 26th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Chip – It’s the responsibility of any proper “game” to create a level playing field for it’s participants. Allowing teams to spend however much money they want on payroll does not accomplish this.

    Proper revenue sharing deal can be a huge benefit to overall competitiveness in major sports leagues. Only then is the ownership alleviated of the responsibility to decide how much of their resources to spend on payroll. They can be entirely focused on developing and acquiring cost efficient talent instead. What the new football agreement just did is essentially perfect. Every football team in the league is literally handed a check for $120-something million dollars because of their TV revenue sharing deal (this actually determines the salary cap each season). Some owners were pocketing that money and putting teams ont he field at 30% of the cap. They are now being told by the league that they must spend 90% of that money every season on payroll. This forces teams to attempt to compete, because now winning and winning efficiently is the only way to “profit” off of that TV money.

    Crying “socialism” is usually just being immature or naive about the larger picture.
    —————-

    The myth is that the NFL’s CBA creates competitive balance – the reality is that it created mediocre football.

    There are no great teams any more, there are still miserable bad teams – the result of mismanagment at the upper levels, but there is no greatness.

    That’s what this CBA will create. The Pirates and Orioles will still be awful because they are poorly run franchises, the difference now is that the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels etc will regress more towards the middle of the pack.

    The goal shouldn’t be regression of the best it should be elevation or elimination of the worst.

    If you want competitive balance and quality game play – eliminate the poorly run franchises or the ones that can’t financially compete, that deepens the talent pool and improves the quality of baseball all around while penalizing organizations for failure not success.

  216. Patrick January 26th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Really? Rested AJ Burnett is better than Mariano Rivera?

    Well in the 2nd or 3rd inning, yes. Because Burnett (all jokes aside) should be able to pitch not only that inning but 3 or more innings after that. Mariano would only be able to deal with that one situation. By the time you are in the 7th, 8th, 9th inning you are using 1 or more pitchers per inning anyways so it makes no difference if you bring Mo in for any of those innings.

    So bringing in your bullpen ace for a high leverage situation in the 7-9th inning makes a lot of sense but doing so in the 2nd or 3rd inning is a real bad idea because it blows up your entire picthing staff.

  217. J. Alfred Prufrock January 26th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Of course they’d present a united front, but would love to have been a fly on the wall to see who was “aye-ing” or “naying” on this one. For instance, does Tony Pena have a real voice at all? Not saying I can sense which way he’d have called that, but I just wonder. I thought that since he speaks the kid’s language, and is as good as it gets as a catcher, that could have been a very important relationship here.

  218. Bronx Jeers January 26th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    I wonder if all these $20MM AAV players send ARod a Christmas card.

    Maybe there’s a secret club where they all meet like in Eyes Wide Shut.

  219. jacksquat January 26th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    PacoDooley January 26th, 2012 at 2:20 pm
    Anyone see that the A’s designated Adrian Cardenas for assignment? Very odd since he had a .314/.374/.418 at AAA last year playing SS, 2B, 3B and LF. He has had decent minor league numbers since being drafted in ’06. Could be some positional talent for the NYY??

    PCL numbers.

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