The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Putting the pieces together

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 29, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

In this morning’s Pinch Hitter post, Nick wrote about the evolving strategy of the Yankees front office, and I think he’s right that the Yankees are trying to find a balance between sustainable player development and powerful free agent spending.

Truth is, the current roster is beginning to reflect that balance. It’s hard to project a 25-man roster right now — the Yankees clearly need to settle their DH and bench situations — but based on what they have right now, player development has produced more of the projected big league roster than free agency. The trade market has been an equalizer, a way to use player development to land proven veterans.

Here’s the current 40-man roster, minus the two Rule 5 picks:

Drafted
Dellin Betances, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, George Kontos, D.J. Mitchell, David Phelps, Dave Robertson, Austin Romine, David Adams, Derek Jeter, Corban Joseph, Brandon Laird, Brett Gardner
Total: 13
Big leaguers: 5

Quite often, the Yankees are risk takers in the draft, and that’s led to plenty of disappointments. The Yankees more or less went bust on four straight draft classes from 2000 through 2003, and Hughes is really all they have to show for 2004. But things have turned a little bit. Gardner, Austin Jackson and a couple of pitching role players  came out of the 2005 draft, and the 2006 class has produced 10 big leaguers, ranging from Robertson and Chamberlain in the Yankees bullpen to Mark Melancon and Dan McCutchen as trade chips. There’s a lot of disappointment in the 2007 class — starting with Andrew Brackman — but Romine still has considerable potential, and it’s too early to know much about the 2008-11 classes (though there’s some real promise in those groups, and some of that promise is close to the big leagues).

International market
Ivan Nova, Mariano Rivera, Francisco Cervelli, Robinson Cano, Eduardo Nunez, Ramiro Pena, Zoilo Almonte, Melky Mesa
Total: 8
Big leaguers: 5

The Yankees ability to find impact players on the international market is somewhat underrated. They’ve missed a few times — Juan Miranda, Kei Igawa, etc. — but they’ve also found significantly overlooked gems that aren’t mentioned here  (Alfredo Aceves and Manny Banuelos jump to mind). Twenty percent of the projected Opening Day roster came from the international market, including the Yankees best hitter and best (ever) reliever. The emergence of Nova as a middle-of-the-rotation starter, and a progress of Nunez from forgotten prospect to big league role player, have helped ease some financial burden on the front office.

Trade
Boone Logan, Michael Pineda, Alex Rodriguez, Chris Dickerson, Curtis Granderson, Justin Maxwell, Nick Swisher
Total: 7
Big leaguers: 6

If the 40-man roster is unchanged, I guess you have to assume either Dickerson or Maxwell will make the team as a bench player, but if you prefer to think of this as five big leaguers, that’s perfectly fair. Either way, the point stands: The Yankees have done a nice job using the trade market to supplement their roster. They bought low on Swisher, got Logan as a secondary part of a bigger trade, gave up their own top prospect to get Pineda, gave up forgettable players for Dickerson and Maxwell, and pulled off an incredibly complicated deal for Granderson. Rodriguez is clearly the product of financial might, but the rest are the product of using positions of strength to fill positions of weakness.

Free agent
A.J. Burnett, Pedro Feliciano, Freddy Garcia, Hiroki Kuroda, CC Sabathia, Rafael Soriano, Cory Wade, Russell Martin, Mark Teixeira, Andruw Jones
Total: 10
Big leaguers: 9

Obviously, when the Yankees sign a free agent, it’s with full intention of putting him on the big league roster. The only non-big leaguer on this list is Feliciano, and he’d be there if he were healthy. One interesting thing about this list: The Yankees made that huge splash in the December of 2008, landing Sabathia, Burnett and Teixeira within days of one another. But the only other multi-year free agent contracts currently on the roster are Feliciano and Soriano.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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188 Responses to “Putting the pieces together”

  1. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    “At some point, a buyout may be something they need to explore.”

    You mean release as I doubt he’ll accept a buyout.

    __

    The point is that none of us know anything, but if things deteriorated to the point that his body totally broke down (not what will happen, only what could happen), options that may seem impossible now would probably be considered.

  2. dogface January 29th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    with 1 year and $21.1M remaining, Jones and Dodgers re-worked contract 1/09, with union approval

    ================================

    Gave him $5M in ’09 and $3.2M for 2010-2014 (adds up to $21M).

  3. Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Again, one thing Arod has shown is that is he’s about the money. One way or another, the Yankees will have to pay him all the monies he’s owed. Whether it’s with this contract or a reworked one, but he won’t go for a buyout which implies him taking less monies. It might be spread out over time, but he’s getting what’s owed to him.

  4. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    “Gave him $5M in ’09 and $3.2M for 2010-2014 (adds up to $21M).”

    As I alluded to on the prior thread, the Yankees could possibly find it beneficial to do something similar, and in this instance, both sides could have far more motivation.

  5. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Does A-Rod want to be a bench player for three years, with little ability to drive the ball? Again, not saying it will happen, only that it could. That might lead to some creative restructuring, buyouts, call it what you like.

    Gotta get breakfast.

  6. Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    I agree with Rich they might be able to renegotiate his contract to pay his money over a longer period of time, but unlike the Dodgers, the Yankees are above the payroll threshold so I don’t know how MLB is going to react as they haven’t exactly been pro-Yankees. I understand that the Yankees might be under the threshold when this renegotiation takes place, but I don’t think they’re be under the threshold by a significant amount and if so, I don’t see MLB doing them any favors approving this renegotiated contract.

  7. Bo knows January 29th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    One can argue that without A Rod, maybe the Yankees don’t win in 2009 but win in 2010 2011 etc. Case in point, Lee does not sign, Yankees win 97 games A Rod last out, post season, instead of Matt Holliday. Your strategy tree should be “Many roads lead to the objective, not just one”. At this point the Yankees are getting squeezed between the A Rod/Jeter window and the new rules. A Rod’s contract is the big elephant in the room. Winning puts butts in seats not individual players.

  8. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    I like building a team through trades. This stuff about wanting to make a trade that benefits both teams is BS. I wanna make a deal that makes my team better and the other team worse. The 70′s Yankees traded for Nettles, Chambliss, Rivers, Lyle, Figgy, etc. I understand today’s economic environment and the complicated contracts make this difficult, but it feels good knowing we got Sparky and the R\Sox got Cater. And don’t worry, if a team believes they are gonna improve through a trade with you, they Will do it, regardless of past history.

  9. yankee21 January 29th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    When was the last time NY renegotiated a contract with any of its players?

    When was the last time, if ever, NY extended a player to avoid getting hammered once that player hit FA status?

    My point, NY seems to be very passive when it comes to really any kind of pro-club contract initiatives.

  10. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    “Cashman saw over the years that huge contracts could ruin Yankee teams.”

    nick

    well written post, but the reality is that the yankees won in 2009 precisely because they paid sabathia, burnett, and teixeira over 400 million.

    there is no master development plan that has won anything without spending 400 million on players like CC .

    the yankee have not been able to develop their own ace yet. maybe manny baneulos will be the first, or maybe they will be able to teach pineda a plus change and he’ll become an ace.

    but until they do , cashman’s development plan for aces is just wishful thinking.

  11. Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Didn’t they just renegotiated CC’s contract.

    Next!

  12. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Yanks better extend Cano. This has the makings of another Pujols vs Cards situation.

  13. Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Here we go again, the anti-Cashman returns.

  14. pat January 29th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “Winning puts butts in seats not individual players.”

    Yankees sold more tickets in 2004 than they did any year during the 1996-2000 run.

  15. Baseball Mogul January 29th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    ‘My point, NY seems to be very passive when it comes to really any kind of pro-club contract initiatives.’

    They have made out with Cano’s extension thus far, but they may end up overpaying him in the end (if Boras has his way).

  16. Bo knows January 29th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    The difference between CC and A Rod. One is an stand up dude.

    Did CC leave another two years and 40 mil on the table by not going on the open market? Probably.

    A Rod had his legacy, then smeared crud all over it.

  17. Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    ” Yankees sold more tickets in 2004 than they did any year during the 1996-2000 run.”

    But wasn’t attendance up league-wide from ’96-’00 to ’04? Arod wasn’t the only variable.

  18. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    “Here we go again, the anti-Cashman returns.”

    hey, some of us have higher standards than others.

    i can see why that might be annoying to some people.

    but that’s their problem , not mine.

  19. Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Based on your posts, you’ve got a lot of problems.

  20. Bo knows January 29th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Yankees sold more tickets in 2004 than they did any year during the 1996-2000 run

    ———————–
    There are many other factors involve, demographics, information highway etc. My point was that the loss of A Rod would have little impact on attendance. His opt out faux pas had such bad pub that Boras had to send him sniveling, back to the Yankees pleading forgiveness.

  21. Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    ” hey, some of us have higher standards than others.”

    So there’s one class of people with higher standards to which you belong and another class of people with lower standards to which people who disagree with you about Cashman belong.

    You used to criticize that kind of logic but now you use it. Not every LoHud Fallacy is a fallacy!

  22. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    “Based on your posts, you’ve got a lot of problems.”

    a problem is just an opportunity in disguise.

  23. Tar January 29th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    “His opt out faux pas had such bad pub that Boras had to send him sniveling, back to the Yankees pleading forgiveness.”

    For 250 big ones not only would I snivel, but I would probably grovel too.

  24. Tar January 29th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    “Not every LoHud Fallacy is a fallacy!”

    Another LoHud fallacy.

  25. Yank 97 January 29th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    The idea of the clean HR all-time HR king in pinstripes was too tantalizing to pass up.

    YES ratings would be through the roof as each milestone approached and skyrocketed for every HR from 700 on. Everyone would be coming to the ballpark to see and potentially catch milestone HR balls. Yankees would have a field day with concessions relating to A-Rod and his HR/milestone chases and make billions doing so.

    Yes, they overpaid, but the reward was immense. Pujols isn’t going to come close to breaking the record and look how much he got. He also never had the market appeal as A-Rod did. A-Rod was an elite baseball player AND a page-6 sensation. That transcendence is what made him worth the $$.

    It obviously means nothing now with the steroids and his breaking down body, but at the time, it was a good contract. And Boras knew the Yankees would drool over themselves at all it entailed.

  26. Bo knows January 29th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    The most important Cashman legacy that trumps all others, going forward – Rebuilding the Scouting and Minor league system going forward. This, having to start from scratch and with a split management group – New York/Tampa, due to Big George machinations. He fired most of the scouts “because they were making too much money”.

  27. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    I have to believe that the bad timing of that opt-out was more Boras than Rodriguez. It wasn’t the first or last time that Boras has used the media to get money. How many players have dropped him since then because of his stunts or going against the players’ wishes? Nobody ever dropped him as an agent before Rodriguez that i know of.

  28. austinmac January 29th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Ace pitchers are scarce. I would say their are 10-15 in baseball so it seems most teams have difficulties developing one. The Yankees haven’t had the high draft picks to go a surer route suchnas Price or Strasburg. One could say Price hasn’t yet become one, but no one is critical of them for his failure to improve.

    This game is hard. Their are no sure things because injuries, inability to hit a certain pitch or a pitch in a certain location, personal issues and the many other things happen to young men growing up. Every team can point to players who failed to meet high expectations.

    With respect to Beltran, I frequently called for the Yankees to sign him this winter. However, we now know if they had they wouldn’t have been willing to spend on Kuroda. It remains to be seen who has more value.

    I still liked the days the Yankee money could fill in holes and deal with bad contracts. Currently, with the long term payroll they have and their 2014 desires, they have less money to work with than others. That is why Pineda happened. They were not going to pony up huge money, long term to Hamels or others. Pineda was the only opportunity they saw to try for a big upgrade for little money.

  29. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    nick in sf-

    i’m talking about individuals having different levels of standards.

    i find talking about classes of people bigoted and elitist.

    gb7 for example has high standards for survival when an enemy of the united states is trying to kill him. ot mtu has high standards for the mountaineering skills he’ll use when he goes out on hikes where there is no cell reception. jerkface has high standards with statistical data. you get the idea.
    it’s like you with designer sunglasses. we’re not going to catch you in a pair of mass marketed oakley’s

    i don’t have such a high standard in fashion sunglasses and you will find me in ugly looking oakleys simply because they allow me to see the ball-golf ball, volleyball, baseball etc.

    so there are high standards and different standards.
    they are really two different things.
    i don’t see the problem in that.

  30. Central Scrutinizer January 29th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    What happens when you “retire” early from your contract? Do you give up the monies from that point out? Isn’t that what Griffey Jr. did because he saw he wasn’t getting it done anymore? I think he gave up the rest of the money to exit gracefully.

  31. 108 stitches January 29th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    The Yankees could start the season now and still feel like the season will be a winning one. Cashman will continue to makes moves as he deems as filling a hole and that WILL happen as the season progresses.

  32. Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    I doubt Griffey gave up any monies. He’s not officially retired until he submits the necessary paperwork to MLB and the PA and I bet you he didn’t do that until his contract was paid out.

  33. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Randy, I was born to kill…..I’ll kill time, I’ll kill a large pizza, I’ll kill a 12 pack of Coor’s Light, I’ll kill a nickel bag that now cost at least a buck, I’ll kill a deer if it looks cross-eyed at me….

    “And I went up there, I said, “Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
    wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
    guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
    KILL, KILL.” And I started jumpin up and down yelling, “KILL, KILL,” and
    he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
    yelling, “KILL, KILL.” And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
    sent me down the hall, said, “You’re our boy.”

  34. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    there is absolutely no proof that cashman is building a team from within. even a player like cano was developed by the old tamps faction that has been largely removed. jeter and mariano were the old organization.

    the “new” yankees organisation hasn’t really produced anyone that has been a star of the caliber that long time yankee fans have been used too . there are no dimaggios, mantles, or berra’s emerging on the mlb scene.

    monetro might have been one of these home grown stars which was precisely why a lot of people who have historic perspective were and are upset about it.

    until cashman does it on the field with producing homegrown stars, it’s all talk and marketing.

    cashman did do a nice job with CC.
    that’s nothing to take lightly.
    it’s takes some skill to pick the right free agent.

    but lets make no mistake about it, cashan has produced zero starts with his ” new” approach”.
    but maybe he will.
    if he does great.
    the yankees will be in excellent shape.

    banuelos, betances, and montero were really his last shot at it.

    now it’s baneulos, betances, and pineda as cashman’s last shot.

    even a fan with the most extreme polyanna tendencies would not keep believing the hype if cashman doesn’t deliver with these three guys.

    the clock is ticking.

  35. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    holy crap

    all this time arlo guthrie has been amongst us.

  36. Central Scrutinizer January 29th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    I doubt Griffey gave up any monies. He’s not officially retired until he submits the necessary paperwork to MLB and the PA and I bet you he didn’t do that until his contract was paid out.

    ———————————————————————————————

    You may be right. I remember a press conference with him crying and saying goodbye so I thought that made the retirement official. There has to be paperwork of some sort involved.

  37. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
    holy crap

    all this time arlo guthrie has been amongst us.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Just like his daddy, one of the great song writers of all time

  38. Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    randy, in some cases I think even you know when you’re ladling out the BS and I also think that was one of those cases. I could be wrong, however. Either way, I don’t own any sunglasses aside from some discount pair my folks gave me a few years ago and which I don’t wear. So whatevs to you, sir.

    ” A Rod had his legacy, then smeared crud all over it.”

    If that legacy was supposed to be being the clean slugger/home run champ in the steroid era, yeah, he threw that away before he got to the Bronx. But he can still have a positive legacy. 2009 was a big start. Help the Yanks keep winning and that will be a big part of his ultimate story.

    Or he could use some of his money to invest in new designer HGH, always keeping a few steps ahead of Johnny Law! But… that could end up backfiring. Safer to follow the advice of the original Modern Lovers: take this place and take it straight.

  39. dogface January 29th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    What happens when you “retire” early from your contract?

    ==============================

    Doesn’t get paid. See: Meche, Gil

  40. dogface January 29th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Isn’t that what Griffey Jr. did because he saw he wasn’t getting it done anymore?

    =============================

    I believe this is correct, though he was only set to be paid $2M. He probably walked away from $1.5M or so.

  41. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    nick in sf-

    i know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, but if someone pokes me, i’m more than likely poking back.

    i have no problem if you or crawdaddy ignores me completely. but if you wanna play , we can play.

    your choice.

  42. Crawdaddy January 29th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Only problem is, you don’t have a concept except your anti-Cashman agenda.

  43. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    wasn’t woody guthrie from oklahoma?

    that place spit out some interesting people.

  44. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    “Only problem is, you don’t have a concept except your anti-Cashman agenda.”

    crawdaddy-

    yeah this morning while showing a kid out on the ball filed by the ocean how to do the T drill to keep his pitches from missing sideways, i was thinking ” how can i pass on my cashman hating to this kid ?”.

    you definitely have me all figured out.

  45. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    I thought I’d add something of INTEREST to today’s discussion, not that reading re-hashed Cashman hatred isn’t a barrel full of monkeys of course!

    Taking a drive on a pleasant NE day I had the pleasure of listening to EEI talk about how the Patriots are the most hated team in the NFL, with some actually dubbing them the most hated team in sports. The goody-goody factor in this one comes from the fact that this isn’t emanating from the typical “we’re tired of this team winning so much!” (read: Yankees). It really started with that moron cheating self-possessed arrogant POS Belicheat and Spygate and continues to this day. Some of you scoffed at Scoreboard gate, but that still has a little wind behind its sails, NOT BECAUSE IT DEFINITIVELY MADE A DIFFERENCE – but just because it happened. And the week before was the game where the Pats newest acquisition, the former Broncos coach, sat in while Denver played the Pats.

    While I can’t say nobody likes a cheat, I think it is probably true that most people do not.

    Tom Ryan wrote one article in today’s Globe, and then there was another, forget by whom. They wrote about how it should be the NY team that everyone is rooting against because that’s usually the norm, but, to quote one of them, the feeling nation-wide is that the only thing that would be better than the Giants crushing the Pats 50-0 would be them crushing them 51-0!!

    My needs and wants are small. I am such a happy kid right now!

    :)

    GO GIANTS!

    GO GIANTS!

    GO GIANTS!

    GO GIANTS!

    GO GIANTS!!!!!

  46. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    “yeah this morning while showing a kid out on the ball filed by the ocean how to do the T drill to keep his pitches from missing sideways”

    Glossies, please!

    :)

  47. CompassRosy January 29th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Jesus streaming live from Mariners FanFest in just a couple minutes…

    http://tinyurl.com/26kvc98

  48. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Audio also because I’m not convinced you would ever pass up an opportunity to trash the Cash!

    :)

  49. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Hey Sis! On my way to see The Descendents but I am passing up opportunties to see Jesus out of pinstripes for the forseeable future. Still kind of painful.

    ;)

  50. Bo knows January 29th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    There you go Nova and Robertson and Gardner – Marketing. Swisher and Granderson, Garcia and Colon marketing.

    Considering the Tampa faction had George’s ear and were sniping at Cashman, why didn’t they work on George on keeping a scouting system. What the hell were they developing between ’01 and ’05. There were all these developers and nothing to work with. All the scouts were gone.

  51. MaineYankee January 29th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    randy

    yeah this morning while showing a kid out on the ball filed by the ocean how to do the T drill to keep his pitches from missing sideways, i was thinking ” how can i pass on my cashman hating to this kid ?”.

    ———————————————————————————————————–

    My guess is he had a cap with a B on it so you taught him wrong and told him that’s how Cashman teaches.

  52. Central Scrutinizer January 29th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Isn’t that what Griffey Jr. did because he saw he wasn’t getting it done anymore?

    =============================

    I believe this is correct, though he was only set to be paid $2M. He probably walked away from $1.5M or so.

    =========================================================

    So in the future if Alex isn’t living up to his OWN standards, he can retire and walk away from the contract and save the Yanks the cash. I believe this is what he will do at the end.

  53. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    trisha-

    i do think cashman did a great job in acquiring CC Sabathia.

    he’s actually quite good at that kind of acquisition.

    the yankees would not be the team they are had they not signed CC.

    giants/ patriots?

    to use an expression i learned from someone… YAWN
    :)

  54. Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    ” i know this is a hard concept for you to grasp, but if someone pokes me, i’m more than likely poking back. i have no problem if you or crawdaddy ignores me completely. but if you wanna play , we can play.”

    I’m sure I’ve slipped up before, but even when I make fun of you I try to make it about the content of your posts on here. Of course you want to poke and play any way you choose, but I don’t get the logic-defying detours and ad hominem nonsequiturs.

    You’re more than welcome to pick apart and critique anything I post here, but maybe you wouldn’t take things so personally if you responded to what I and others actually say rather than odd distortions.

    But, to be clear, I still like you and I’m glad you comment here.

  55. 108 stitches January 29th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    It’s official ……..

    Valentine has finally finished reading “For whom the ball rolls” by Ernest Fenway. He’s ready to take the Socks to the unfinished bridge of no return.

  56. tomingeorgia January 29th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Nick,
    I see you’ve brushed up on your Latin!

  57. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
    wasn’t woody guthrie from oklahoma?

    that place spit out some interesting people.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    yes, he was. Oklahoma produced a lot of baseball players and a good portion were Yankees. Gene Autry, Sam Walton, Chuck Norris, Carrie Underwood, Patti Page, James Garner, Paul Harvey, Jim Thorpe.

  58. randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    “But, to be clear, I still like you and I’m glad you comment here.”

    quick

    someone call san francisco 911

    nick in sf must have a high fever and is experiencing hallucinations.

  59. Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    What I need to do, Tom, is brush up on my Shakespeare. Then I might become even more toletant of randy’s monkeyshines. ;)

  60. MaineYankee January 29th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    “nick in sf is experiencing hallucinations.”

    Isn’t that normal out there?

  61. Bo knows January 29th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    In no particular order Henson, Henry, Walling, Duncan – Oh, the Yankee drafts. Brrr.

    And even then, Oppenheimer and Newman were of the Tampa faction and are still around, key management members.

  62. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    OK, when has Randy was arrested for shining monkeys?

  63. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    when ***was*** Randy

  64. tomingeorgia January 29th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Nick,
    “The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
    It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
    Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
    It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.”

  65. blake January 29th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    I think there is a lot of evidence that Cashman is trying to build from within…..its just that superstar position players are tough to come by…..especially where the Yankees draft every year…..they don’t get to draft Arod….or Evan Longoria….or Bryce Harper.

    They traded Montero for a couple of reasons IMO..one CBA related and another because they have really come to believe young pitching is where its at…..I don’t necessarily agree with that 2nd one but it appears to be what they believe.

    I think Cashman wants to create a player development organization…..only one with a lot of money. If he can do that then it’ll give the Yankees the best chance at long term success under the new rules that are going into place.

  66. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    That was a bad mushroom.

  67. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Unless overpaying for the draft picks causes NY to lose future draft picks, I think that’s where the money will be spent.

  68. Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Tom:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kTd0.....Strnen.jpg

  69. BIG AL January 29th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    GB7 -

    MICKEY MANTLE!

  70. BIG AL January 29th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Seniors go wild on LoHud day, lol.

  71. Bo knows January 29th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    There are penalties for everything in the new CBA. 2.9 mil budget for international signings. Losing draft picks for over slot for draft picks and so on. I can’t see where the Yankee money has an advantage. It’s a Hard cap all the way down to drafts.

  72. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Unless overpaying for the draft picks causes NY to lose future draft picks, I think that’s where the money will be spent.”

    That’s the issue…..the new CBA wont allow paying much over slit without losing draft picks.
    That combined with the soft cap for the payroll…..where are they going to sink their money? They should sink it into scouting and player development ….the very best and most scouts…..the very best instructors and coaches etc…..

  73. Jerkface January 29th, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Unless overpaying for the draft picks causes NY to lose future draft picks, I think that’s where the money will be spent.

    The Yankees cannot overspend in the draft. If they go over slot they lose picks, if they don’t sign certain slots to put that money towards other slots they go over slot because you lose the money if you don’t sign the player.

  74. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    IG AL January 29th, 2012 at 2:59 pm
    GB7 -

    MICKEY MANTLE!

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I was just putting up some of the less obvious, but, Allie Reynolds, bobby Murcer, Ralph Terry, Matt Kemp, Willie Stargell, Pepper Martin, The Waner brothers, Lloyd and Paul, Warren Spahn, johnny bench, a lot of football players. Surprisingly about 6 astronauts are from OK, along with the Braniff Brothers (airlines), Bob murphy of the Mets (announcer).

  75. Jerkface January 29th, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    I can’t see where the Yankee money has an advantage.

    They won’t have an advantage in IFA, draft, or even FA now. They can get their advantage in hiring more/better people to oversee the organization. Get more coaches for each level, put more time into the kids they do get. Get more scouts. Get more advance scouts.

  76. Jerkface January 29th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Didn’t they just renegotiated CC’s contract.

    No he was going to opt out so they kowtowed to him. If he did not have an opt out they would not have negotiated.

    They haven’t done anything that was very smart for the club with their contracts. They couldnt even sign a setup man without giving him a hilarious pro-player contract.

  77. BIG AL January 29th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    randy l. -

    randy l. January 29th, 2012 at 2:04 pm
    wasn’t woody guthrie from oklahoma?

    that place spit out some interesting people.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    No, I don’t believe Woody was.

    There were some fair ballplayers from Oklahoma, Mickey Mantle, Jihnny Bench, and people like Jim Thorpe, and many Country music stars, and the great Will Rodgers.

  78. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    With the rules changing to prevent spending in free agency, the draft, and soon internationally…..there will be no excuse for the Yankees to not have the very best scouting and development people. Identify who the best people are…..and offer to pay them more than their current employers.

  79. BIG AL January 29th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    I stand corrected, Woody Guthrie was born in Oklahoma, :(

  80. raymagnetic January 29th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    I had to look up ad hominem non sequiturs. Thank you Nick for your vocab lessons!!

  81. Tom in N.J. January 29th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    The Flaming Lips….

  82. tomingeorgia January 29th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    blake,
    Are the scouts and development people under contract, or are they “hired at will?

  83. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Fake Jon Heyman speculated about a Banuelos, Hughes, Nunez deal for Jason Heyward…..now its fake of course but who would do that deal if it were really being discussed?

  84. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    “Are the scouts and development people under contract, or are they “hired at will?”

    Im not sure to be honest…..id say they have contracts….but I would guess that its unlike dealing with players and that they coukd leave whenever they wanted for better opportunities.

  85. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Wouldn’t make that trade now or never.

  86. tomingeorgia January 29th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Me neither.

  87. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    GB, Tom,

    That’s ok….now tell me why?

  88. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    Based on one season? Why?

  89. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    And why would a team make a trade for two of something that they have an over abundance of anyway?

  90. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Im not saying the Braves would do it….because I don’t think they would.

  91. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Id make trade from the Yankees POV. Heyward is the young offensive potential that they need and he plays a position they’ll need as well…..would hate to lose Banuelos, would hate to lose Hughes…..but Id make that deal and not look back if Im the Yanks…..don’t think the Braves would though because as mentioned……they don’t need pitching and need offense themselves.

  92. tomingeorgia January 29th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    blake,
    You’ve taught me to be a hugger!

  93. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Tom,

    Im more of a prospect handshaker than hugger ;) I think Heyward is gonna be a beast….he was hurt last year and he’s 22 years old. I think they’ll take off like Justin Upton did soon….he’s that kind of talent.

  94. tomingeorgia January 29th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    blake,
    A Jesus in the making? We’ll see.

  95. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    “With the rules changing to prevent spending in free agency, the draft, and soon internationally…..there will be no excuse for the Yankees to not have the very best scouting and development people. Identify who the best people are”

    blake

    Is there any evidence that they recognize that there may be a problem in development/scouting (they problem may be more in the pro scouting dept. rather than the mL area), apart from sending Eiland packing, a guy who some of us were killed for dissing way before his departure.

  96. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    I’m not sure I’d trade Banuelos because he’s LH. Of course, if they believe that big pitchers are the way to go, then they may like Betances more.

  97. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    “blake, A Jesus in the making? We’ll see”

    I think Montero has even more offensive upside than Heyward :( though Heyward walks a lot and could be a high OBP guy in addition to mashing…..Heyward has more tools than Montero other than at the plate though.

  98. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Rich,

    I don’t know….I don’t even know that they don’t have the best development guys that money can buy…..they have drafted pretty well lately…..but they should make sure that’s the case …especially going forward.

  99. blake January 29th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    I wouldn’t trade Banuelos for many players…..probably would for Heyward.

  100. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Prospect huggers better get used to the warm embrace of Manny Banuelos…he’s going to be around for a real long time. They had a chance to trade him instead of Montero for a pitcher and they didn’t.

    Fake Heyman’s rumored price for Heyward is laughable. Ethier and Melky could be had for money alone.

    Melky/Ethier + Banuelos + Hughes + Nunez > Heward + $$

  101. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Heyward is injury prone. A shoulder injury and a thumb injury. I suspect steroids.

  102. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    I trust that the Yankees rotation will hold up but if it doesn’t, Zack Greinke could end up being the big-name pitcher available at the trade deadline. It would make sense to trade for him and audition him in the spotlight down the stretch and see what he is made of before committing big money to him in the offseason. You really can’t ignore a 4.6 K/BB ratio. He has Mike Mussina written all over him.

  103. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    How do we know that the Yankees could have traded Baneulos+ for a Pineda-like asset and kept Montero?

    Again, apart from the financial influence, I think they wanted to move Montero because they have ceded too much control of the 25 man roster to the guy who is the current manager.

  104. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    If they have to trade for yet another starter at the trading deadline, Cashman and Co. have likely failed miserably.

  105. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Not really. If they trade Hughes for a bat now then Greinke fits beyond 2012. There is an extra slot open with Greinke, Cain and/or Hamels due to hit free agency. Otherwise, you’re depending on two rookie pitchers in 2013 (Betances and Banuelos). I don’t think that’s a wise plan.

    Sabathia
    Greinke
    Pineda
    Nova
    Banuelos/Betances

  106. m January 29th, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees will trade for or sign Greinke in FA. Just a hunch.

  107. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Speaking of players available at the trade deadline, how about Ichiro? I could see renting him for a down-the-stretch run. Very versatile from an offensive standpoint, and very good defensively. He appears on the downside based on last season numbers, but he’s the kinda Vet spark plug that would probably get hot if thrust into a Championship run for the 1st time.

  108. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    I understand you live for trades, but that’s just an example of spinning their wheels, indicative of some half-baked plan rather than a well-thought out strategy.

    They don’t know what Grienke would cost in terms of players and it has already been reported that they don’t think his makeup fits in NYC (I think that’s probably a leap, but I have no sources of note). So if they think pitching is sooo important, they can’t make moves now that rest on what might happen.

    And the chances of them having the money for Cain/Hamels are pretty slim if they want to get under the $189m threshold in ’14 and extend Granderson.

  109. blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    “Heyward is injury prone. A shoulder injury and a thumb injury. I suspect steroids.”

    ?

  110. blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Bret,

    How do you know they coukd have traded Banuelos for pitching? Report was that Theo wanted both he and Montero for Garza…..also…Ethier is almost 30 and is in his walk year ….Heyward is 22 years old.

  111. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Pay Ichiro $8.5m (half of his $17m) coming off of an 84 OPS+ season? That’s kind of a stretch.

  112. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    There’s a very good chance they trade Hughes for a bat and if they do, that opens up a spot for Greinke, Hamels or Cain. Otherwise, you’re penciling in 2 rookies.

  113. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
    “Heyward is injury prone. A shoulder injury and a thumb injury. I suspect steroids.”

    ?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Why the question mark? Is there one player that gets fhurt from using steroids? Hell, if people can only suspect a Jeff Bagwell because he looks like he might use steroids, I can assume that heyward does.

  114. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    “There’s a very good chance they trade Hughes for a bat and if they do, that opens up a spot for Greinke, Hamels or Cain. Otherwise, you’re penciling in 2 rookies.”

    They don’t have the money given the consensus reporting, and they still have AJ and Garcia, and Warren, Phelps, Mitchel behind them.

    This stuff isn’t realistic.

  115. Against All Odds January 29th, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
    “Heyward is injury prone. A shoulder injury and a thumb injury. I suspect steroids.”

    ?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Why the question mark? Is there one player that gets fhurt from using steroids? Hell, if people can only suspect a Jeff Bagwell because he looks like he might use steroids, I can assume that heyward does.

    ———————————————————————————-

    The ppl that judge Bagwell w/o facts are morons. You can’t assume that Heyward does roids. If that’s the case Hughes is a big time user.

  116. blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    I don’t assume Bagwell used steroids…..he should already be in the HOF

  117. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    You guys are talkin’ about Heywood, only because Cashman passed on Beltran. Cashman signed Kuroda on the same day of the Pineda trade. He shoulda passed on Kuroda\$10 Mill and used the $3 Mill the Yanks are looking to use onna DH to sign Beltran for $13 Million per. No matter who the Yanks get inna trade to plug the DH Slot, he aint gonna have the punch of Beltran. In short, I would rather have Beltran, than the current overflow of SP’s. The starting staff minus Kuroda is still very good, and the Yankee batting order with Beltran outstanding. This makes me believe the 1yr Kuroda signing was more of an opening salvo at that $189\2014, than an effort to improve the 2012 Yankee team.

  118. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    - Rich -
    You get any player\Ichiro at the trade deadline, you are NOT paying half his salary.

  119. blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    They should have signed Beltran and Kuroda both.

  120. Giuseppe Franco January 29th, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Bret not realistic?

    The hell you say!!!!

  121. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    - blake -
    I like the idea of both, but that’s more in line with your Fielder wishes.

  122. Giuseppe Franco January 29th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Sometimes I wonder what planet Donnybrook is on.

  123. blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    “I like the idea of both, but that’s more in line with your Fielder wishes.”

    Not really…..about 190 million dollars cheaper.

  124. Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Sweet, Seattle is gifting us Ichiro and we don’t even have to take on his salary?

    What are we doing in return to get him?

  125. Giuseppe Franco January 29th, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Nick in SF January 29th, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    Sweet, Seattle is gifting us Ichiro and we don’t even have to take on his salary?

    What are we doing in return to get him?

    ——–

    Hey, Cashman already traded them Montero. This deal would simply be an IOU.

  126. UnKnown January 29th, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    http://mlbfancave.mlb.com/fanc.....DN28Pk73yu

    Kate knows what’s up. Fav Team Yankees.

  127. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    blake January 29th, 2012 at 4:43 pm
    I don’t assume Bagwell used steroids…..he should already be in the HOF

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I didn’t say you did assume it.

    All i was doing was pointing out the idiocy of some of the previous posts blaming injuries of Rodriguez on steroids.

  128. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    Most of the writers and more than a few of the Braves personnel think that Heyward’s injuries were from being out of shape and thinking he had it made. talk about poor work ethics?

  129. blake January 29th, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    Heyward shouldn’t have played as much as he did last year….Chipper told him he needed to play through the pain and he did when he was experienced enough to manage it. I expect him to bounce back big time this season.

  130. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
    - Rich -
    You get any player\Ichiro at the trade deadline, you are NOT paying half his salary.
    ___

    What are you paying?

  131. Benny Blanco January 29th, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

    It appears as though greinke might be open to an extension. might as well scratch him off the list as well.

    Blake, would you consider greinke as option after the season?

  132. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    As I said on a prior thread, it doesn’t matter what caused A-Rod’s injuries. The issue now is that he has had multiple recent injuries, and is pushing 40. Unless he has a mutli-year string of health, that has to be accounted for in how they construct the roster/payroll.

    I have no idea what Heyward’s sitch is, but at least he’s young.

  133. blake January 29th, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    Benny,

    eh….hopefully they won’t need any pitching after this season….but I’d much rather have Hamels or Cain if they do need pitching….

  134. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Why do people think they are going to sign another starter to a very large contract? They traded for Pineda so that they wouldn’t have to do that.

  135. blake January 29th, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    Rich,

    agreed….at least that their hope

  136. jacksquat January 29th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
    Why do people think they are going to sign another starter to a very large contract? They traded for Pineda so that they wouldn’t have to do that.

    No one knows that they traded for Pineda so they wouldn’t have to spend on another pitcher. A few here are just guessing that.

    However, if they do it won’t be Grienke.

  137. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    The Yankees didn’t want Greinke before when they were needing a starter, why would they want him now?

  138. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    blake

    As has been dissected at RAB and other places, it will be very tough to get another big money starter (need or not) and keep Granderson long-term if they want to get under $189m.

    That’s why I think they need to look for a cheaper option in RF (that would have been my offseason priority) and find a way to move AJ.

    They have very few options to open up some payroll flexibility.

  139. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    “No one knows that they traded for Pineda so they wouldn’t have to spend on another pitcher. A few here are just guessing that.”

    The lure of getting under $189m is pretty compelling. If you view that as a reasonable point of departure, then $150m for Hamels/Cain is tough to do given their pre-existing payroll commitments.

  140. jacksquat January 29th, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:23 pm
    “No one knows that they traded for Pineda so they wouldn’t have to spend on another pitcher. A few here are just guessing that.”

    The lure of getting under $189m is pretty compelling. If you view that as a reasonable point of departure, then $150m for Hamels/Cain is tough to do given their pre-existing payroll commitments.

    It depends what they want to do with Granderson, Swisher, the bullpen, how Nova, Banuelos and Betances look this year, etc.

  141. Baseball Mogul January 29th, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    Why do people think they are going to sign another starter to a very large contract? They traded for Pineda so that they wouldn’t have to do that.

    ———————————————-

    Because they refuse to believe that the Yankees won’t throw a nine figure contract at every big name free agent that hits the market. They see the math of Mo possibly retiring and Kuroda coming off the books as being able to fill Kuroda’s slot with Cain, Hamels, Greinke without raising payroll…. while failing to account for arbitration raises, RF vacancy, and the statuses of Cano and Granderson long-term.

  142. blake January 29th, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    Rich,

    I’m not so sure they’ll re-sign Granderson….maybe they will but my guess is it’ll have to be on their terms. He’ll be 33 when he hits the market and there are 2 years between now and then….we’ll just have to wait and see. Of course it would be very nice if they could obtain a cost controlled outfielder to hedge their bets…..that would be my new mission if I were cash.

  143. blake January 29th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    They should lock Cano up now (or try to)….and just wait and see what happens with Granderson. Hopefully he’ll repeat last year over the next two and then they can work out a 4 year deal or something for him to play one of the corners.

  144. jacksquat January 29th, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    Ellsbury is also due to hit free agency in 2014 so he might be an option if things don’t work out with Granderson.

  145. CompassRosy January 29th, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
    Pay Ichiro $8.5m (half of his $17m) coming off of an 84 OPS+ season? That’s kind of a stretch.
    ===========

    I assume if the Yanks traded for Ichiro at the deadline, it would be based upon whatever his performance had been to that point in the 2012 season, as well as his overall reputation, not based on his worst offensive season.

    That said, I doubt it will happen…
    Though there is a strong contingent of Mariner fans who would be thrilled if it did – not that Ichiro would be on the Yanks but, that he and his salary wouldn’t be on the M’s

  146. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    blake

    Then the development people better get busy and smart because they will need to hit it big with Mason Williams (it’s promising at this point), Sanchez, Murphy and some others (I realize you know this), because there are likely to be offensive dropoffs (maybe huge ones) at several key positions within the next two to three years.
    _
    True, Baseball Mogul.

  147. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    ” it would be based upon whatever his performance had been to that point in the 2012 season, as well as his overall reputation, not based on his worst offensive season.”

    If they someone add $8.5m at the deadline, it won’t be for an aging Ichiro.

  148. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    someone = somehow

  149. blake January 29th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Rich,

    one reason I thought they should maybe take a shot on Cespedes….if they believe in his bat….is that even though he’ll probably cost upwards of 30 million….that’ll be cheap if he pans out…..if he ends up being a 30-30 guy then 5 or 6 million a year is nothing for that…..it would be a risk but if it worked out it would really help them for 2014

  150. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    By the end of 2013, the following will be gone:

    Soriano $14 mil
    Feliciano $4 mil
    Kuroda $10 Mil
    Garcia $5 Mil
    Burnett $16.5 Mil
    Jones $2 Mil

    $51.5 mil

    Maybe gone:

    Rivera $15 mil
    Swisher $12 mil

    $27 mil

    Jeter drops down to $8 mil
    Rodriguez $5 mil between now and the end of 2013

    $12 mil

    A reduction of $90.5 mil

    Add perhaps a raise of $30 for Granderson, Cano and the others.

    A reduction of $40-$50 mil is quite likely.

  151. JK January 29th, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    The Yankees will most likely try to have a cost controlled rotation + bullpen and spend on bats via future salary dumps (ex. Granderson) & free agency.

  152. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    There are a bunch of arbitration bumps to factor in, and whole lot of roster to fill out.

  153. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    If there is nothing better than Ethier on the market, NYYs are better off keeping Swisher.

  154. JK January 29th, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    I don’t see the Yankees resigning a Granderson who will be 33 in year 1 of a new deal. The only free agent over the next 2 years I see returning is Cano.

  155. LGY January 29th, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    Rodriguez $5 mil between now and the end of 2013

    ——————-

    ARod’s salary does not reduce at all for luxury tax purposes. It only increases if/when he reaches his HR milestones.

  156. sammiejohnson January 29th, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    Ichiro also has 10/5 rights which means he has a full no trade. Doubt he would wave them even if the Yankees did want want him, which I also doubt.

  157. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    “There’s a very good chance they trade Hughes for a bat and if they do, that opens up a spot for Greinke, Hamels or Cain. Otherwise, you’re penciling in 2 rookies.”

    They don’t have the money given the consensus reporting, and they still have AJ and Garcia, and Warren, Phelps, Mitchel behind them.

    This stuff isn’t realistic.

    *********

    Agreed. It’s unrealistic to pencil in Betances and Banuelos – two rookies – in 2013. So what’s your plan?

  158. JK January 29th, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    GB,

    I would rather have the contact hitter (Ethier) than the high K power hitter (Swisher) in the post season.

  159. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    Swisher over Ethier?

  160. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    There aren’t going to $80-$90 mil worth of holes to fill in. If they are losing that much salary between ’12 and ’13, they aren’t adding that much back in raises. Granderson at around $15-$17 mil and Cano to around $20-$21 mil. What $25 mil more in raises and arbitration?

  161. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    Ethier is a hack in right field and when did he become a contact hitter?

  162. JK January 29th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    GB,

    You’re not getting Granderson form 15-17M if he repeats anything close to last year.

  163. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Hypothetically speaking, if Hamels hits free agency after 2012, would you sign him if it meant letting go of Granderson after 2013?

    Who would you rather have Hamels or Granderson?

  164. LGY January 29th, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    If Cano’s salary is $20M which will be the floor for his salary, you assume rotation locks for CC, Pineda, and Nova, Mariano retires, and DRob is the closer.

    Then in 2014 the Yankees will have about $40-45M to spend on 2 SPs, 6 RPs, C, RF, CF, DH, and 5 bench players in order to get under $189M.

  165. Jerkface January 29th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    2014 Estimated Roster assuming that the arbitration players reach their maximum potential

    We start with
    Arod- 26
    Mark – 23.1
    CC: 24.3
    Jeter: 3 / 8
    Gardner: 6
    Robertson: 6
    Pineda: 6
    Nova: 6
    Nunez: 2
    Cervelli: 3

    So we have 110 million for

    CC
    Pineda
    Nova
    SP4
    SP5

    C
    Teixeira
    2B
    Jeter
    A-rod
    Gardner
    CF
    RF
    DH

    Robertson
    SU
    RL
    RL
    RL
    LM

    Nunez
    Cervelli
    BN
    BN
    BN

    Need to spend 69 million (to be safe from A-rod’s milestone) on 2 Starters, C, 2B, CF, RF, DH, 5 Relievers, and 3 Bench players.

  166. Jerkface January 29th, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    A-rod is actually 27.5 because its AAV, so 67.5

  167. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    “Agreed. It’s unrealistic to pencil in Betances and Banuelos – two rookies – in 2013. So what’s your plan?”

    CC, Pineda, Nova, Kuroda (year to year, so possible for 2013), then you only need two from Hughes, Warren, Mitchell, Phelps, Banuelos, Betances and if that fails, the Garcia/Colon type of bargain. And again, AJ is still on the 2013 payroll as of now.

    That’s so much better than most teams.

  168. JK January 29th, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    GB,

    Ethier’s lifetime batting average is .291 and he averages less than 110 Ks per season, that’s not a contact hitter? His power numbers would go up in Yankee stadium, and Swisher was a hack in the OF until last year.

  169. blake January 29th, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    The Yanks have no shot at getting under 189 unless 11 of their 12 pitchers are cheap home grown guys by 2014.

  170. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    And I liked Tom in NJ’s suggestion of the other Montero instead of Martin in 2013 and beyond, if feasible.

  171. LGY January 29th, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Looking at Jerkface’s breakdown want to expand my estimate to 40-50M.

    Really depends on how much Cano gets and exact arb figures.

  172. JK January 29th, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Bret,

    I would rather have Hamels because I always go with the pitcher over the hitter. That being said, I cant see the Yankees spending 25M on Hamels.

  173. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Ethier’s going to start the season at 30 years old and his numbers have dropped for the last 3 years. No thanks.

  174. blake January 29th, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    If they sign Cano back and fill their entire pitching staff (besides CC) from within…..then they’ll have around 40 millionish to fill out the rest of the roster……its doable but they really need to avoid spending any more on pitching.

  175. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    If just one of Banuelos or Betances can join the rotation by 2014, that’s one less starting pitcher to have to pay from that 50 million.

    Romine could potentially be the catcher by 2014.

    And I still hold hope they can turn Hughes + some of the pitching surplus into a cheap long-term RF.

  176. Jerkface January 29th, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    If just one of Banuelos or Betances can join the rotation by 2014, that’s one less starting pitcher to have to pay from that 50 million.

    Its incredibly optimistic to assume 3 home grown starters by 2014, considering the success the Yankees have had in that department.

  177. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    Other than David Dejesus, who is this fictional cheap and long term right field replacement?

  178. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    I assume Nova (16 game winner) + 1 of Banuelos/Betances.

    That’s it.

  179. Jerkface January 29th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    I assume Nova (16 game winner) + 1 of Banuelos/Betances.

    That’s it.

    Have to consider Pineda in that category. He isn’t a guarantee.

  180. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    The cheap RF replacement should be from someone else’s mL system who is near ML ready. That’s what the excess pitching should be able to buy.

  181. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    GB,

    His name is not Nick Swisher.

  182. JK January 29th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    blake,

    It’s possible. They can only put 1 15-20M+ stick in the OF & resign Cano. The Yankees are going to have to make a trade for a cost control bat in the OF or 3B.

  183. Bret The Hitman January 29th, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    Pineda is an all-star. I’m ok with that assumption.

  184. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2012 at 6:26 pm

    Hughes was an AS too. That means very little going forward.

  185. blake January 29th, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    JF,

    I don’t know how realistic it is…..but I think the Yanks are putting their hopes into a Sabathia, Pineda, + home growns rotation. ..I think that’s where they are hoping to save enough money to get below 189.

  186. JK January 29th, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    What you guys think of letting Granderson & Swisher walk and going all in on Ellsbury?

  187. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Why do you think Jacoby Ellsbury would be any cheaper than Granderson will be if they both get close to last year’s numbers? He’s just under $2 mil less than Granderson.

  188. GreenBeret7 January 29th, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    Some of you people need to get off the mushrooms and airplane glue.


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