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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees said to be nearing a decision on Burnett

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 16, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

A quick post-chat update on the A.J. Burnett situation.

Still nothing finalized, but Buster Olney reports that the Yankees are “honing in” on a decision. Sources have told me — and several others — that a new team recently joined the discussiong, but the mystery team isn’t believed to be a serious bidder. Maybe that’s changed, but last I knew, Pittsburgh remained the most likely trade partner.

Anaheim is out of the mix, and Cleveland is essentially out. Jim Bowden is going so far as to say a deal with the Pirates will be completed within 24 hours.

Maybe he’s just trying to say all the right things, but Larry Rothschild said this morning that he wouldn’t find it awkward to have Burnett in camp after knowing, without a doubt, that the Yankees have been trying to trade him. True, players get traded all the time, so that’s not particularly unusual or awkward. But how often does a veteran like Burnett find out his team is trying to dump his salary for pennies on the dollar? I have to think that’s a little awkward.

 
 

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207 Responses to “Yankees said to be nearing a decision on Burnett”

  1. Crawdaddy February 16th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    I thought I read Cashman and the Mariners were working on this Montero trade since the Winter Meetings in early December. If true then Pineda isn’t a surprise and this trade was made after both sides had plenty of time to think it over.

  2. Joe from Long Island February 16th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    1. i think aj is traded before saturday, as bowden says. though it’s possible he goes to tampa before any deal is finalized, just out of common decency i think cash does it before it comes to that. i can’t imagine that it would be anything other than a layer of awkwardness that nobody on the yankees wants.

    2. now that jones’ arbitration hearing is done (i think he lost), and his salary known to the penny, i wonder if he’s now on the table, possibly as part of a larger deal with pitt, which….

    3. might involve a third team, if it’s going to be enlarged. wouldn’t that be a hoot?

  3. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    “Like second marriages, having confidence in your team’s FO may be the triumph of hope over experience.”

    Or maybe making the postseason 17 of 18 years.

    “But that was also self-defeating in terms of adding a quality DH, assuming that you believe, as I do, that balance rather than pitching wins.”

    I always think I must be imagining seeing knowledgeable baseball observers advance the idea the Yankees were already locked-in to have postseason-viable starting pitching for the foreseeable future, but then I get hit with a reality check.

  4. 108 stitches February 16th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Time is drawing near for a conclusion with Burnett. Given the fact that both the Yankees and Pirates conduct physicals for pitchers and catchers on Sunday, Burnett has likely left Baltimore for travel to Florida. Bradenton is just a 1/2 hour’s ride from Tampa so he can hole up at a motel and await word where he is to report on Sunday for his physical.

  5. yankeefeminista February 16th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Maybe we will get back some sleeper ‘specs in this deal. :)

  6. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    stuckey – Not relying on Burnett or a failing Hughes/Noba/Garcia out of the rotation is huge. Perspective is generally something most people lack in most aspects of life, however.

  7. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “Or maybe making the postseason 17 of 18 years.”

    Built on the backs of the Core 5 that weren’t acquired during Cashman’s tenure as GM, and many of whom were held on to despite the owner’s pleas to move them.

    So you’re point is?

    “I always think I must be imagining seeing knowledgeable baseball observers advance the idea the Yankees were already locked-in to have postseason-viable starting pitching for the foreseeable future, but then I get hit with a reality check.”

    I have no idea what this means.

  8. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Yankees said to be nearing a decision on Burnett

    ========

    Sooo does this mean we are inches from the goal line and should be making a phone call
    to refrigirator C.C. to punch it in?

  9. yankeefeminista February 16th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Huh?

  10. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    rich in NJ – On January 12th, you were OK with the Yankee rotation?

  11. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Chip

    But that was also self-defeating in terms of adding a quality DH, assuming that you believe, as I do, that balance rather than pitching wins.
    —————————

    Rich,

    I’ve had this thought many times. That there’s a perfectly reasonable argument to be made that the Yankees looked at their offense and came to the following conclusions:

    1. They weren’t losing a major offensive contributor this winter – Posada was marginal at best in 2011 and the Yankee offense wasn’t the problem.

    2. The team as a whole had a strong offensive season without getting typical contributions from Tex or Alex.

    3. The team as a whole had a strong offensive season without getting a career year from anyone (so less chance of regression to mean) or a huge year out of an older player (also less chance of regression)

    All of that means that there was no urgency to add a bat.

  12. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Chip – Granderson kind of breaks the “career year” rule but for the most part all of those things were certainly factors into not keeping Montero around.

  13. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “Or maybe making the postseason 17 of 18 years.”

    Built on the backs of the Core 5 that weren’t acquired during Cashman’s tenure as GM, and many of whom were held on to despite the owner’s pleas to move them.

    ———————-

    You can’t be insinuating that the Yankees won in spite of Cashman right?

  14. blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    “I thought I read Cashman and the Mariners were working on this Montero trade since the Winter Meetings in early December. If true then Pineda isn’t a surprise and this trade was made after both sides had plenty of time to think it over.”

    If true it also suggests that perhaps the Yankees had plenty of time to consider how they were going to replace Montero’s bat if they traded him…..

  15. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Chip

    Yet they were still .241 .337 .386 .723 v. RHP. Jeter and A-Rod aren’t getting any younger, we don’t know if Granderson had an out of context season, and we don’t know if Tex will rebound v. RHP.

    They didn’t just not add a bat, they subtracted one.

  16. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Rich in NJ – Then it revert back to what one thinks of the FO’s judgment.

    I guess so? I think it hinges more on fans (read: casual observers) that think they know better than the professionals than the fans that trust the professionals.

  17. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    “You can’t be insinuating that the Yankees won in spite of Cashman right?”

    I am merely stating a fact. The groundwork for the run was put in place before Cashman became GM. That run was built on homegrown prospects, three of which gave them a huge offensive advantage over other up the middle players.

  18. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Chip – Granderson kind of breaks the “career year” rule but for the most part all of those things were certainly factors into not keeping Montero around.
    ————-

    I don’t think the Yankees consider Granderson’s year to be something he can’t duplicate. Remember, before coming to the Yankees he was a productive power hitter in a huge ball park, I think they always believed that with a couple of mechanical adjustments that he would be able to hit 30 – 35 HR playing his home games at the Stadium.

  19. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    “I guess so? I think it hinges more on fans (read: casual observers) that think they know better than the professionals than the fans that trust the professionals.”

    So you think that we should, as humble fans, applaud every move the FO makes?

  20. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Chip

    They didn’t just not add a bat, they subtracted one.
    ————————

    No they didn’t – they subtracted a theoretical bat (Montero) for an actual pitcher (Pineda).

  21. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 16th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Chip, I’ve thought that about the bat all along, and especially when people were jonesing for different DH and one by one they fell by the wayside. It certainly appears to be the organizational philosophy.

    As someone who is ultrahigh on pitching and defense and who believes that pitching does win championships, I’m not terribly unhappy with the waiting. I certainly can see how someone who does not buy into that philosophy could be pretty angst-ridden by now!

    And since it’s all going to shake out the way it does, with none of our input anyway, I am reminded of the following lyrics!

    Somebody shake me, wake me when it’s over

    Somebody tell me that I’m dreaming

    And wake me when it’s over

    I will be happy when all is “said and done” – whatever it is!

    :)

  22. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    They didn’t just not add a bat, they subtracted one.

    You are right, they subtracted a bat. Posada’s terrible one.

  23. blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    “Posada’s terrible one.”

    Unfortunately Posada was better against RHP last year than anyone they are currently considering as Jones’s platoon partner.

  24. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    “You are right, they subtracted a bat. Posada’s terrible one.”

    So it wasn’t reasonable to think that Montero was, at minimum, insurance against the factors I mentioned above?

  25. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Rich in NJ – Applaud? No. Attempt to understand and not completely disregard as “stupid”? Yes.

    Attempt to understand why they make the moves they do? Yes.

    Berate people because you happen to think you “know better” or belittle their opinions because they are in line with Cashman/Girardi? No.

  26. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    “No they didn’t – they subtracted a theoretical bat (Montero) for an actual pitcher (Pineda).”

    Sort of like they added a theoretical #2 in Pineda?

  27. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    “You can’t be insinuating that the Yankees won in spite of Cashman right?”

    I am merely stating a fact. The groundwork for the run was put in place before Cashman became GM. That run was built on homegrown prospects, three of which gave them a huge offensive advantage over other up the middle players.
    ————————-

    The run in the 90s was built on players who Cashman wasn’t GM for – that I’ll grant you. But the fact that they’ve been in the playoffs 17 of the last 18 years isn’t just thanks to Stick and Bob Watson. After guys like O’Neill, Girardi, Tino left it was Cashman who brought in the players that kept the Yankees in the playoffs year after year. Did every move he make work out – no of course not – no GM bats 1.000 (how many SS’s did Theo sign after he let Orlando Cabrera walk?) but to discount what Brian has meant to this organization is silly.

  28. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    ID

    I never said the Montero trade was stupid. I will say that about signing Ibanez, if it happens.

    Berate? They post here? If not, I have no personal contact with any of them, nor do I seek it.

  29. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    “Built on the backs of the Core 5 that weren’t acquired during Cashman’s tenure as GM, and many of whom were held on to despite the owner’s pleas to move them.

    So you’re point is?”

    The same.

    In absence of any evidence that any other team in the WC era has been able to accomplish what the Yankees have (there is none) and any conclusive evidence the Yankees would not have made the postseason in recent years without the core (not even mentioning the considerable resources directed to Jeter/Rivera/Posada/Pettitte in recent seasons could have been repurposed), any conclusions that the current Yankee FO derverves NO credit for their sustained success in recent years is baseless, by definition.

    I have no idea what this means.

    Let me explain. In order to argue the Yankees don’t believe in “balance” you have to assume one side of the scale is fixed. That their pitching strength will remain a constant, while their theoretically aging line-up will begin to lose strength in comparison and a lack of balance will result.

    This is foolworthy.

    The idea the Yankees will be “unbalanced” in the immediate has no basis in good math or science.

    Its based in taking a snapshot of the current Yankees system, extrapolating entirely subjective, presumed progression, and arguing by looking at the Yankees roster today, we know they’ll be unbalanced a few years down the road.

    That’s bad science.

  30. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Rich in NJ – So it wasn’t reasonable to think that Montero was, at minimum, insurance against the factors I mentioned above?

    It is equally as reasonable to think that Pineda can stop runs from being scored, and a bump in offensive productive is not necessary.

    It is also reasonable to think that with the players they have that are expected to rebound, they are already going to have a better offense this year than last regardless of who DH’s..

  31. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Chip

    I’m merely saying no Core 5, no rings. That was an irreplaceable foundation put in place.

    I will also say about Theo, not Manny, no Pedro, no rings.

  32. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    “No they didn’t – they subtracted a theoretical bat (Montero) for an actual pitcher (Pineda).”

    Sort of like they added a theoretical #2 in Pineda?
    —————

    No. Pineda has actually succeeded in the majors over a full season. Montero was impressive in a tiny sample size after having two pedestrian seasons in the high minors.

  33. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    stuckey being stuckey. No point responding.

  34. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    “No. Pineda has actually succeeded in the majors over a full season. Montero was impressive in a tiny sample size after having two pedestrian seasons in the high minors.”

    That he can be a #2 this season is still theoretical.

    Again, I don’t think the trade is stupid. I just think it augmented a strength and depleted a potential area weakness.

  35. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    “If true it also suggests that perhaps the Yankees had plenty of time to consider how they were going to replace Montero’s bat if they traded him…..”

    Maybe they did.

    Maybe they considered and arrived at a different conclusion than you did.

  36. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    ID

    You’re right, it is reasonable to think even if I disagree with it. As I have said, we all express opinions here.

  37. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Rich – I think that it augmented a potential weakness and potentially weakened a strength. That’s why I don’t have as much difficulty understanding why it happened, even though I have difficulty in letting go of the trade piece!

  38. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    stuckey being stuckey. No point responding.

    Honestly, this makes me no longer wish to engage with you. why do people do this? the instant dismissal around here by the older crowd on almost all subjects is getting out of hand.

    stuckey make be a bit long in the tooth, but he always brings up fair and valid points. he also ALWAYS calls out people who are arguing dishonestly, or sidestepping answering the real questions at hand… and they absolutely deserve that.

    People that can’t follow a conversation or stick to their own argument without insults or changing the subject cannot deal with him. dismissing a poster simple because you refuse to take the effort to stand by your own statements is pretty embarrassing.

  39. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Chip

    I’m merely saying no Core 5, no rings. That was an irreplaceable foundation put in place.

    I will also say about Theo, not Manny, no Pedro, no rings.
    ————————

    So in your opinion, Cashman can’t get credit for anything until after Derek and Mo retire – because those guys were here before he was?

    That’s insanity. The Yankees won in 2009 with a team almost totally comprised of players brought in by Cashman. Even after the players who were brought in by Stick and Watson (Cone, O’Neill, Tino) left after the 2001 season the Yankees still made the playoffs 10 of the next 11 years with a team almost completely made up of players brought in by Cashman.

  40. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    How good was DJ Mitchell in ’11? This good for the last half of the season. He also picked up on the strikeout rate.

    swbyankeesTT SWB Yankees Blog
    From July on in ’11, D.J. Mitchell was 9-2, 2.57 for SWB. I honestly had no idea he was that good for that long.

  41. blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Assuming that the Yankees and orioles would actually trade with each other….wonder what the Yanks would have to kick in for an AJ/Markakis swap?

  42. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    ID

    Then pass.

  43. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    rich in NJ – I didn’t edit that right, i didn’t mean you specifically just people who do that in general.

  44. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    “No. Pineda has actually succeeded in the majors over a full season. Montero was impressive in a tiny sample size after having two pedestrian seasons in the high minors.”

    That he can be a #2 this season is still theoretical.

    Again, I don’t think the trade is stupid. I just think it augmented a strength and depleted a potential area weakness.
    —————————-

    You considered the rotation (pre Pineda) a strength and the second best offense in baseball a weakness?

  45. blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    “Maybe they considered and arrived at a different conclusion than you did.”

    They arrived at Raul Ibanez is awesome?

  46. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 16th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    I have to take up for stuckey here also. Although I may not agree with all of his opinions – and many here agree with far fewer of mine! – he has made some very cogent arguments also, so credit where it’s due.

    JMO

  47. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Assuming that the Yankees and orioles would actually trade with each other….wonder what the Yanks would have to kick in for an AJ/Markakis swap?
    ——————–

    Given that Duquette is an idiot I would say probably very little.

  48. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    “So in your opinion, Cashman can’t get credit for anything until after Derek and Mo retire – because those guys were here before he was?”

    The issue is does the 17 or whatever year success inure to him. I don’t think so.

    “That’s insanity”

    Way to jump to conclusions.

    I have also said he is a decent GM, not great, and that the Yankees can do better.

  49. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    They arrived at Raul Ibanez is awesome?

    Why do you feel the need to make up a conclusion like that? That’s pretty unnecessary, blake.

    More likely they arrived at “it doesn’t matter who our DH is we’ll still have a great offense”. Since you know, that’s basically what happened last year… and what they seem to be doing right now…

  50. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 16th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    LINsanity! :)

    And on that happy note, I say hasta luego amigos.

    Be kind to each other. We’re all we got!

    ;)

  51. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    “They arrived at Raul Ibanez is awesome?”

    I didn’t know Ibanez signed.

    Sorry, at work, missed that. My bad.

  52. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    “So in your opinion, Cashman can’t get credit for anything until after Derek and Mo retire – because those guys were here before he was?”

    The issue is does the 17 or whatever year success inure to him. I don’t think so.

    —————————

    I think that while a GM can ruin a season it takes a lot more than a GM to make a season a success.

  53. ZMAN February 16th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Gardner is the one who needs to be replaced, IMO.

    Now that we’ve given away our 21 yr old stud who was poised to become the 2nd best hitter on the team as early as next season, we simply can’t allot a starting spot to a guy who hits .260 with no power. That was a luxury when we had loaded lineups.

    We get no power from SS. No power from LF. DH is going to be some washed up player. Who knows if A-Rod’s power returns to above average levels. Martin is a noodle bat. Nunez’ playing more isn’t a good thing.

    Replace Gardner with someone who can hit

  54. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    “You considered the rotation (pre Pineda) a strength and the second best offense in baseball a weakness?”

    With Kuroda, yes. Plus, it’s not really about a one year window. They have two top pitching prospects at AAA and several others that are good pitching prospects. They have no other near ML ready hitters.

    You can say what you want about the offense, but as I posted above there is a vulnerability v. RHP.

  55. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    They arrived at Raul Ibanez is awesome?

    Why do you feel the need to make up a conclusion like that? That’s pretty unnecessary, blake.

    More likely they arrived at “it doesn’t matter who our DH is we’ll still have a great offense”. Since you know, that’s basically what happened last year… and what they seem to be doing right now…
    ———————

    More to the point – the conclusion isn’t that Raul Ibanez (or whomever they wind up with) is awesome. It’s that this is the best of what’s left and we can re-assess during the season as players become available for trade.

  56. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    I think that while a GM can ruin a season it takes a lot more than a GM to make a season a success.

    Ding Ding Ding.

  57. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:37 pm
    rich in NJ – I didn’t edit that right, i didn’t mean you specifically just people who do that in general.
    __

    What?

  58. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    RIch in NJ – as I posted above there is a vulnerability v. RHP.

    And as we have constantly refuted, they were still the 4th or 5th best offense in baseball against RHP last year. The line you quote is not really that meaningful.

  59. blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    Chip,

    Lol

    Stuckey,

    Ok then….Ibanez, Damon, Matsui, or Vlad are awesome…..Im justvsiggestibg that if they knew they were trading Montero a long time ago maybe they should have planned a little better as to what to do with the DH in that event……I don’t know the circumstances or the timetable behind the Montero trade so Im not saying that they definitely screwed up….just saying it’s possible they coukd have planned better.

  60. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    rich in NJ – The “instant dismissal”, you normally don’t do that so I just assumed stuckey caught you in a moment of weakness. people who do that in general drive me nuts.

  61. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    How can anyone be in panic mode or antsy about the DH position when we had
    the worst DH production in baseball last year and still finished top 3 in offense. We just solidified our rotation and at the same time subtracted Pie thrower as well.

  62. xcv February 16th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    cashman needs to trade this clown asap before he overplays his hand or before any of the potential trading partners realizes what kind of damage this headcase can do to one’s rotation. been saving a bottle of dom to celebrate once i hear the definitive riddance of this knucklehead. please don’t make the same forking mistake of not trading crap igawa when you had the chance.

  63. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    ID

    Again, it’s not really just about last season. I have made that point consistently. It’s about the next few years.

  64. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:45 pm
    rich in NJ – The “instant dismissal”, you normally don’t do that so I just assumed stuckey caught you in a moment of weakness. people who do that in general drive me nuts.
    __

    That’s your opinion. You’re free to think what you want. I don’t think it’s worth engaging with him.

  65. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Rich in NJ – More points we’ve constantly gone over then :)

    The next few years don’t open up the DH for Montero, they clog it up.

  66. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    Plus, it’s not really about a one year window. They have two top pitching prospects at AAA and several others that are good pitching prospects. They have no other near ML ready hitters.

    ———————————–

    Uh-huh – and what happened to the last two “top pitching prospects” the Yankees had in the minors. One is a reliever and the other is fighting to claim the fifth spot in the rotation. Additionally, you can say that they’re in AAA and that’s technically correct, but the fact of the matter is that Betances and Banuelos have a combined 50 innings at AAA so they’re no where near contributing.

  67. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    I don’t think it’s worth engaging with him.

    That is unfortunate, he’s one of the few people around here that make any sense on a consistent basis.

  68. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    The fact the Yanks Actually dealt AJ within the AL\Angels, and to a team they frequently battle in the Playoffs, shows how badly they wanta get rid of him. Hal has had Cashman working on this for at least 2 months. By Sunday, AJ will be gone whether it’s for money, marbles, or chalk. This baloney about AJ still pitching for the Yanks in 2012 after all that has Publicly transpired the last 2 weeks is pure Hokem.

  69. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    blake- looks like Adam Jones is intent on hitting FA. Said he would only take a 5+ year extension from the Orioles. I guess they tried to buy up the rest of his arb years from him which garnered that statement.

    I wouldn’t mind him as an option to follow Swisher at all :)

  70. 108 stitches February 16th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    The Yankees have never been in a better position to rid themselves of Burnett than now. Allow him being 3 games over .500 in 2009 but 2010 and 2011 were nothing to write home about .
    The emergence of the good arms in the system plus the addition of Pineda and Kuroda sealed Burnett’s fate as a Yankee.

  71. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Chip

    So you’re saying that because they haven’t developed pitchers that they can’t be relied on to develop pitchers? Doesn’t that put Pineda’s future development at risk as well?

    ___

    “The next few years don’t open up the DH for Montero, they clog it up.”

    ID

    One, that assumes that A-Rod will primarily DH in the next few years, I am skeptical. I don’t see the need for Jeter (doesn’t hit enough) or Tex to DH much.

    Two, I also don’t think Montero catching 50-80 games is out of the question.

  72. blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    ID,
    Yea….he’s a decent option…..id be leery of giving anyone that’s been around the Orioles that longtime a lot of money though…..id be afraid the suck would have soaked into their DNA.

  73. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    “That’s your opinion. You’re free to think what you want. I don’t think it’s worth engaging with him.”

    But you and I both know you WILL next time you think you have a solid rebuttal. You sometimes can’t help yourself, remember? :-)

    If you don’t want to engage me, fine, no one is making you. But are you really not aware how transparent is that you cherrypick when I’m apparently worth engaging and when I’m not.

    Even a casual observer of internet forum dynamics knows this is directly tied to whether or not you have anything worth saying in response.

    Prove me wrong. Make your lack of engagement consistent.

  74. blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Johnny Damon Talks Free Agency

    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [February 16 at 1:56pm CST]

    Johnny Damon told Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com that he considers the Yankees a “perfect fit” for his services given their need for a left-handed hitting DH. The Yankees don’t hold any grudges over the way Damon’s first stint in New York ended, but they haven’t offered him a contract this offseason, and they don’t seem likely to make final decisions on their DH opening until the A.J. Burnett intrigue ends.

    Despite rumblings that Damon is altering his offensive approach now that he’s just 277 hits away from the 3,000 hit milestone, he says he’s not changing as a player as he nears personal accomplishments.

    “It’s never been a driving force for me,” he told Heyman. “I always had the intention of being a good teammate.”

    Damon hit .261/.326/.418 with 16 homers and 29 doubles in 582 plate appearances in 2011. He was Tampa Bay’s primary DH last year, but maintains he could still play the field if necessary. I examined Damon’s free agent stock in November, concluding that another modest one-year deal is likely. The Scott Boras client appeared to be seeking a $5MM deal about a month ago.

    MLBTR

    Sign Damon

  75. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Damon confused by Yankees’ lack of interest
    “I think it’s a perfect fit,” Damon said of filling the Yanks’ left-handed DH role.
    The 38-year-old batted .261/.326/.418 with 16 home runs and 73 RBI last year

    =======

    A. Cash probably wont like you going public with this.
    B. You are 38 and declining.
    C. The last time Cash tried to negotiate with you, you wanted Pujols money.
    D. You dont get on base enough.
    E. You have a hot wife and thats a distraction.

  76. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Rich in NJ – Two, I also don’t think Montero catching 50-80 games is out of the question.

    You don’t, but the people that scout, coach, develop and pay him certainly seem to think that would be absurd…

    And yes, it does assume arod will take over more of the DH role going forward. Of course it does. because that is what is going to happen! Why wouldn’t he? They need to keep him healthy and playing for another 6 years! Once they get him healthy they are going to try to keep him that way at all costs.

  77. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    I agree with Damon, given the reported options.

  78. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Defensively, I see no problem with A-Rod stickin’ at 3rd Base for the next several seasons. You guys that are dumping him into the DH Slot tomorrow are goin’ Chicken Little. As for the DH Slot, whoever the Yanks sign is just keepin’ it warm till Ichiro arrives in July.

  79. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    id be afraid the suck would have soaked into their DNA.

    ======

    Yeah Iv heard that sucking is contagious. Be very affraid!!

  80. austinmac February 16th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    ID,

    As a representative of the older crowd, I have no problem with people expressing their opinions. It does get quite tiresome when the same opinion is expressed many times a day or when one cannot distinguish between a fact and an opinion.

    Past events are facts while future prerdictions are opinions. Many here seem to contend their prediction, such as Pinero will never have a change up, is a fact. I say that is not a fact but an inane opinion.

    I am in no way suggesting you are guilty of my perceived sins.

  81. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    ID

    Do you have for attribution quotes that make that assertion absurd?

    As I have posted before, CB made the point that the torque from swinging the bat may exacerbate A-Rod’s hip/knee problem, so DHing may not be the best way to keep him healthy.

  82. DaSaint007 February 16th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Can’t believe Ross Ohlendorf signed a deal with boston.

  83. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    I mentioned last night that there was a report that the Yanks might e involved with multiple player, three team trade involving Burnett and additional players from NY. Names and teams were not mentioned. How much truth or fact is involved in that is also up in the air.

  84. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    “Ok then….Ibanez, Damon, Matsui, or Vlad are awesome…..Im justvsiggestibg that if they knew they were trading Montero a long time ago maybe they should have planned a little better as to what to do with the DH in that event……”

    Maybe they did plan it all along, and this WAS there plan?

    Maybe the Yankees don’t see the need of having more production from the DH has those handle of players project being the same priority you do?

    You and I both already know and agree the Yankees can send up ANY one of those players as the DH and they’re going to make the postseason, probably with room to spare. But you just can’t seem to make the last connection, that maybe the the Yankees don’t think they NEED a Beltran right now as badly as you WANT him.

    Isn’t it possible the Yankees may NOT be thinking “oh, crap, guess we’re going to have to pick of these guys” and instead are maybe thinking “okay, we got a few decent option for our needs at the moment” and one of them will come priced to move.”?

  85. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    austinmac – Agree, and I would never suggest that I am not guilty of those same sins.

    At least I am cognizant of it and always at least try to operate in good faith. :) Some here seem to be proud of the fact that they haven’t changed their mind since the 50′s.

  86. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    “Can’t believe Ross Ohlendorf signed a deal with boston.”

    Why, they seem to love ex-Yankee relievers.

  87. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Players are practically begging to come to the Yankees.

    Buyer’s market.

    Buyer’s price.

    Simple economics.

  88. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Rich in NJ – Can you please stop telling me about what CB posted? I know he did. You’ve told me 5 times now. I’ve told you 5 times now, it doesn’t matter. Resting him to ANY degree is better than playing him full time at 3rd. A-Rod has full days (in the lineup at 3rd), half-days (in the lineup at DH) and off days (not playing at all) and some mixture of that is going to keep him healthy. Mixing in more half days, rather than more off days, will keep him healthy AND in the lineup.

  89. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Chip

    So you’re saying that because they haven’t developed pitchers that they can’t be relied on to develop pitchers? Doesn’t that put Pineda’s future development at risk as well?
    ———————

    Pineda is a far more finished product than either Betances or Banuelos are.

  90. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Can’t believe Ross Ohlendorf signed a deal with boston

    =======

    They are trying to strengthen their farm system with ours. Aceves last year then this. Look for Navarro to be inked by next year. If not, then there is always Neives.

  91. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    ID

    If so, why do you keep bringing up a point that I have already rebutted?

  92. austinmac February 16th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    ID,

    Some of us remember the 50s better than our opinions yesterday. :)

  93. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    blake February 16th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Johnny Damon Talks Free Agency

    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [February 16 at 1:56pm CST]

    Johnny Damon told Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com

    —————————

    I think half of Heyman’s checks are from Boras at this point – the guy does more PR for his clients than he does actual reporting.

  94. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Rich in NJ – As for that assertion being absurd… I can’t say I can quote anyone directly… but I can quote their actions. They kept Montero’s awesome bat in AAA for 2 full seasons to learn how to catch and in the end… they called up a AA catcher in Romine to catch instead. They have done nothing but attempt to trade Montero for the last… what… 3 offseasons? This is a guy they were worried about keeping around?

    How is it not possible that maybe some fans expectations of what Montero is/was may have been a little high? Why are the rest of the people in the world the “wrong ones”? Isn’t the burden of proof on those that believe something that is not actually happening?

  95. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    rich in NJ – Because what you (or more specifically CB) said doesn’t rebut anything.

  96. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    “Pineda is a far more finished product than either Betances or Banuelos are.”

    No doubt, Chip, but if they are relying on him to improve, there are still some similar issues.

  97. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Burnett and cash to the Royals, minor leaguer from the Royals to the Pirates, Garrett Jones from the Pirates to the Yankees.

  98. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Resting him to ANY degree is better than playing him full time at 3rd. A-Rod has full days (in the lineup at 3rd), half-days (in the lineup at DH) and off days (not playing at all) and some mixture of that is going to keep him healthy. Mixing in more half days, rather than more off days, will keep him healthy AND in the lineup.

    ========

    I just checked and its official!! This makes sense in any and all rosetta stone languages. +1

  99. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Chip,
    Is this one of your thoughts or did we get to the endzone?

  100. blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    “Maybe the Yankees don’t see the need of having more production from the DH has those handle of players project being the same priority you do?”

    Maybe ….but what if they are wrong? I don’t take or as a given that every decision that they make is a correct one.

  101. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Maybe ….but what if they are wrong? I don’t take or as a given that every decision that they make is a correct one.

    You shouldn’t, but you should be spending your time and effort figuring out why they do what they do, not why they don’t do what you think they should do.

  102. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    “Pineda is a far more finished product than either Betances or Banuelos are.”

    No doubt, Chip, but if they are relying on him to improve, there are still some similar issues.
    —————

    Except for the following:

    1. Pineda’s in the majors, which means he’s working with Rothschild not Nardi Contreras
    2. Pineda has already shown he can succeed at this level of competition. Betances and Banuelos have to show they can succeed against AAA competition.

  103. blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    “Burnett and cash to the Royals, minor leaguer from the Royals to the Pirates, Garrett Jones from the Pirates to the Yankees.”

    Probably would depend on the quality if prospect the Royals would offer and the money involved…..its possible but 3 teams trades have tons of variables and are tough to predict.

  104. TheStraw February 16th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Donnybrook-

    After watching Ichiro decline last season, I hope you were joking.

  105. LGY February 16th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Knicks on the verge of signing JR Smith. Nioce!

  106. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    but if they are relying on him to improve

    =======

    Didnt he have around a 3.7 era with about a strikeout per inning? I would be satisfied
    with those numbers. As long as he doesnt start declining, sign me up.

  107. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    ID

    Exactly, “their actions.” But there can be a range of reasons for those actions, including that the manager doesn’t want a defensively challenged catcher, and the GM has decided to construct the roster to reflect that. Alternatively, their view may not be a consensus view. That’s hardly absurd.

    “Because what you (or more specifically CB) said doesn’t rebut anything.”

    I think it’s an astute observation by one of the smarter posters here. Since the issue of A-Rod DHing so much that he will block Montero in the next few years is a point you raised yet again, I think it’s reasonable to invoke what I believe is the best take I have seen on the issue, yet again.

  108. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Rich –

    The issue you seem to have is that you’re an extreme optimist when it comes to Yankee prospects.

    In your statements you have the Yankees giving up an elite, middle of the order major league slugger to get a question mark in Pineda – you’re completely discounting the fact that you have no idea what Montero is or will become.

    You also have Betances and Banuelos both experiencing smooth transitions and moving quickly to the top of a major league rotation. I really hope that one or both of those guys make it – I would be thrilled next year with a rotation of CC, Pineda, Nova, Banuelos and Betances or Hughes – but to put Betances, Banuelos and Pineda all on the same level is just incorrect any way you slice it. Pineda has just as high an upside as the other two, and at virtually the same age (younger than Betances) is already experiencing success in the majors while the other two are still trying to make it through minor league seasons without being shut down for injuries.

  109. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Why try and figure out the actions of others? You gotta brain, you got Eyes, use ‘em. This explains the mass Parrot outbreak around here. Refine your OWN thoughts and actions.

  110. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Chip

    And maybe Rothschild will successfully oversee Pineda’s continued development. But it’s still an open question.

    I didn’t compare where Pineda is now to where the Killer B’s are now.

  111. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    LGY February 16th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
    Knicks on the verge of signing JR Smith. Nioce!
    __

    I like it. It will be interesting to see how D’Antoni allocates minutes at the 2/3.

  112. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Chip

    And maybe Rothschild will successfully oversee Pineda’s continued development. But it’s still an open question.

    I didn’t compare where Pineda is now to where the Killer B’s are now.
    ————–

    No, but you’re assuming that the Killer B’s will get to where Pineda is. That’s like saying that the Yankees shouldn’t have traded Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson because Jackson could some day be as good as Granderson.

  113. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Latest on Soler and the 7 teams interested.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....soler.html

  114. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    LGY February 16th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Knicks on the verge of signing JR Smith. Nioce!
    ——————-

    Deal Toney Douglas for a draft pick.

  115. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    “The issue you seem to have is that you’re an extreme optimist when it comes to Yankee prospects.”

    I try to be optimistic about everything until the facts make it untenable, Chip.

    “In your statements you have the Yankees giving up an elite, middle of the order major league slugger to get a question mark in Pineda – you’re completely discounting the fact that you have no idea what Montero is or will become.”

    No, my primary objection to the trade is roster construction and organizational depth. I’m high on Pineda. I am merely pointing out that if you think the Yankees have problems developing pitchers that there is also reason to think that there could face the same problem with Pineda.

    (being home for painters sucks)

  116. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    “No, but you’re assuming that the Killer B’s will get to where Pineda is. That’s like saying that the Yankees shouldn’t have traded Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson because Jackson could some day be as good as Granderson.”

    No, I’m not. I am suggesting that they have a chance to be, and that they have sufficient depth ahead of them to wait.

  117. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    - RICH -
    Hide the silverware.

  118. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    “No, but you’re assuming that the Killer B’s will get to where Pineda is. That’s like saying that the Yankees shouldn’t have traded Austin Jackson for Curtis Granderson because Jackson could some day be as good as Granderson.”

    No, I’m not. I am suggesting that they have a chance to be, and that they have sufficient depth ahead of them to wait.
    ——————

    And the Yankees are saying that they disagree :-)

    You’re correct – the Yankees do lack high end bats in their minor leagues – but I think the general feeling is that they will be able to acquire bats to augment their offense as needed. The same couldn’t be said about pitching.

  119. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Donny

    With the time I have on my hands today, I could count it too!

  120. pkyankfan69 February 16th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    LGY February 16th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Knicks on the verge of signing JR Smith. Nioce!
    ——————-

    Deal Toney Douglas for a draft pick.
    —————————————-

    In the short term I think it is bye bye Mike Bibby

  121. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    - Rich -
    Excellent idea.

  122. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    pkyankfan69 February 16th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    LGY February 16th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Knicks on the verge of signing JR Smith. Nioce!
    ——————-

    Deal Toney Douglas for a draft pick.
    —————————————-

    In the short term I think it is bye bye Mike Bibby
    —————-

    Renaldo Balkman

  123. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    Rich in NJ – The observation that A-Rod can still be feeling pain from batting is… fine… he could also be feeling pain from walking, laying down, driving his car…

    But what does it actually mean for A-Rod? Not a whole lot really.

    It would be fine if they were only concerned about keeping one of his body parts healthy, but I’m not talking about just his hip. I’m talking about his ENTIRE body. DH days will extend his baseball life and keep him in the lineup, it will happen.

  124. blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    “You shouldn’t, but you should be spending your time and effort figuring out why they do what they do, not why they don’t do what you think they should do.”

    Why?

  125. austinmac February 16th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    It’s 4th and 2 days on the trade front. The Yankees can’t decide whether to run it in or pass on the trade. I say a sweep taking Burnett to another city.

  126. pkyankfan69 February 16th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Maybe Balkman instead.

    Either won’t be missed… Both are worthless

  127. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    rich in NJ – Long story short, you keep using CB’s statement to rebut mine, but even HE wouldn’t use it to do that. He has declined to do so when given the option to this point.

  128. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    blake – Why? Really?!? Because one of them has a definable end goal (understanding why they make a move they did), and one of them will have you talking in circles for weeks on end without getting anywhere… wishing something “went different in the past” has never changed the fact it happened.

  129. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    I think you oughtta hold off on the A-Rod post mortems, until you actually See him performing in ST.

  130. kd February 16th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    over under on when carl crawford is back?

    may 15? i’m going over. i think he’s back in june

  131. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    ID

    Yet he was good defensively last season, so I am not sure it’s an issue right now.

  132. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Exactly what I said 20 minutes ago. Use your Own brain and your Own eyes. Go any other route and your a Parrot.

  133. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Rich in NJ – Not sure what his defense last year has to do with anything… he only played in 99 games because he couldn’t stay on the field.

  134. Doc Iac February 16th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    type “do a barrel roll” in google :)

  135. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    I think it could be Bill Walker.

    I don’t think I’ll be Bibby considering Davis isn’t healthy, may never be, and may only be so healthy if he does come back.

    Knicks have a LOT of wings.

    Maybe Balkman though. KNicks are not longer trying to create cap space next summer, so just buying him out and taking the hit makes some sense.

  136. blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    “blake – Why? Really?!? Because one of them has a definable end goal (understanding why they make a move they did), and one of them will have you talking in circles for weeks on end without getting anywhere… wishing something “went different in the past” has never changed the fact it happened.”

    Figuring out why they make moves they do isn’t all that difficult ….its either because they think it makes baseball sense or because or money or both.

  137. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    pkyankfan69 February 16th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Maybe Balkman instead.

    Either won’t be missed… Both are worthless
    ——————-

    True – Fields and Novak will be the two who lose minutes.

  138. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    I think it could be Bill Walker.

    I don’t think I’ll be Bibby considering Davis isn’t healthy, may never be, and may only be so healthy if he does come back.

    Knicks have a LOT of wings.

    Maybe Balkman though. KNicks are not longer trying to create cap space next summer, so just buying him out and taking the hit makes some sense.
    —————-

    Forgot Walker – he’ll get glued to the bench too.

  139. blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    The Royals make a lot of sense for AJ really….they are close to competing…..the offense is almost ready….they just need more pitching and AJ would give then a veteran arm to help ease the Montgomerys etc in……..they have a lot of decent spare prospects as well they coukd move

  140. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Stuckey -

    They’re not going to cut Walker – he won’t play much, but there’s no point cutting him. Balkman doesn’t play as it is so he’s the guy who gets trimmed.

  141. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Although I was and am very much in the pro-Pineda camp, I can understand why a lot of folks hated to see Montero go.

    What I have a harder time understanding is the thought that the Yank rotation pre-Pineda was acceptable and that the offense needed bolstering from where it was in 2011.

  142. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    blake – Yes, but if all you can come up with is “but what if they are wrong”… as a reason they shouldn’t have done something…

  143. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    The Royals make a lot of sense for AJ really….they are close to competing…..the offense is almost ready….they just need more pitching and AJ would give then a veteran arm to help ease the Montgomerys etc in……..they have a lot of decent spare prospects as well they coukd move
    —————-

    Just remember – you heard it here first Blake.

  144. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    ID

    One reason to move a player to DH is if his defense declines. A-Rod’s isn’t We have no proof that playing defense is anything other than a positive for him.

  145. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    “No, I’m not. I am suggesting that they have a chance to be, and that they [the Killer B's] have sufficient depth ahead of them to wait.”

    Given the Yanks’ failure to call up Phelps/Mitchell/Warren last year, what depth would that be, exactly?

  146. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Rich in NJ – Sure that’s one reason, another would be that a player is over 35, is signed until he is 41 and you need him to play as much as humanly possible.

    We have no proof that breathing or drinking water doesn’t cause his hip pain either, what a stupid arguement.

    I can’t believe you still sit there and tell me that A-Rod would not be better rested if he were given more DH days. Do you even realize that’s the statement you are making?

  147. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    oh crap… /b /b!!! lol

  148. DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Anyone know if the Royals are on AJ’s No Trade List?

  149. blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    “blake – Yes, but if all you can come up with is “but what if they are wrong”… as a reason they shouldn’t have done something…”

    Im not even sure what we are talking about here :)

  150. Best To Ever Do It February 16th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Does Arod even want to DH?

  151. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    blake – your 3:11 post was why i had originally responded. no biggie, just seemed odd… i thought you were past all that.

  152. Yankee Trader February 16th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Jorge Arangure Jr. of ESPN The Magazine tweets that he would be very surprised if the Yankees sign Soler.
    ——————————
    GB-
    Unless the Yankees and Soler’s agent can agree on a creative deal where the Yankees don’t pay an extra 40 cents on the dollar, I don’t think he’ll be shown the $$$$. Also wonder if the Phillies will be all in, as they are trying to sign Hamels to an extension, before he hits FA and returns to California-Dodgers??

    Chip-

    Wonder if the Yankees could deal with the Phillies for Jim Thome and his 1.25M contract. He won’t be playing any first and likely with Ty Wiggington now on board will see very little time as a pinch hitter. Thoughts?

  153. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    ID

    I cant believe you think that Montero would be blocked at DH, but I’ll refrain from calling it stupid.

    Here’s a novel idea: Just rest an aging player on the days he doesn’t play the field in order to extend his career.

  154. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    blake – Yes, but if all you can come up with is “but what if they are wrong”… as a reason they shouldn’t have done something…
    ————————————————

    Then maybe you shouldn’t be posting on a Yankees blog, blake. Didn’t you know this place is only for the most pragmatic and sane Yankee fans ;)

  155. pkyankfan69 February 16th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Bill Walker has given the Knicks a lot solid minutes.
    I don’t think he is even on the table to be dropped.

    I’d be shocked if it isn’t Bibby or Balkman.
    I’d lean towards Bibby but either is fine by me.

    Nice to actually be having this conversation with the Knicks though.
    Finally not only do they have the stars but the bench is really pretty deep.

  156. ZMAN February 16th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    “Knicks on the verge of signing JR Smith. Nioce!”

    Suddenly, their roster went from thin to loaded – especially in the backcourt, with or without Davis.

    It sucks that they dug themselves such a hole though – they undoubtedly are top 3 seed talent now, but they might end up in the lower seeds and playing CHI/MIA in rd. 1.

  157. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Who cares if A-Rod wants to DH? He signed a $20mil a year contract until he is 41, the Yankees need to keep him healthy and playing for as much of that contract as possible.

  158. Yankee Trader February 16th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Wonder if, besides the 6 west coast teams, if Burnett hason his NT list the teams that play their ST games in Arizona?-Rockies, Cubs, Reds and Diamondbacks.

  159. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    “They’re not going to cut Walker – he won’t play much, but there’s no point cutting him. Balkman doesn’t play as it is so he’s the guy who gets trimmed.”

    If Melo is healthy, Smith doesn’t implode and Novak doesn’t turn into a pumpkin, Walker’s never going to see the floor either.

    I could see maybe a Walker trade for a 2015 second rounder or something.

  160. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/.....50668.html

    This is what we should trade Burnett for. Have em behind the plate when we’re up and in center when we take the field.

  161. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    “Given the Yanks’ failure to call up Phelps/Mitchell/Warren last year, what depth would that be, exactly?”

    Your point is that they wouldn’t give any of them a chance this season?

  162. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    Blake, you and I are incapable of blog evolution… this is gonna be a tough road to walk down, partner lol

  163. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    “Your point is that they wouldn’t give any of them a chance this season?”

    Unfortunately, but fortunately hypothetically at this point, yes.

  164. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    “It sucks that they dug themselves such a hole though – they undoubtedly are top 3 seed talent now, but they might end up in the lower seeds and playing CHI/MIA in rd. 1.”

    If the Knicks are for real, they have plenty of time to catch Boston, Indiana, Orlando if they trade Howard.

    Boston is in trouble. Did anyone know they’re played 19 home games to 9 road games?

    They’re going to have a rough 2nd half.

  165. Yank 97 February 16th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    “It sucks that they dug themselves such a hole though – they undoubtedly are top 3 seed talent now, but they might end up in the lower seeds and playing CHI/MIA in rd. 1.”

    Luckily, the gap has closed between them and Boston, Atlanta, Indy, and Philly. They have a brutal schedule in March though, but this new roster is equipped to handle it.

    I think they could take CHI down in the 1st round though, if it came down to it. Not so sure about the Heat.

    They need to just keep plugging away Ws though and worry about seeding in April

  166. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    “Unfortunately, but fortunately hypothetically at this point, yes.”

    I think it was probably (who knows?) an issue of development/need/pecking order. They had a sufficient number of starters last year, but with Colon and probably AJ gone, I think at least one could have either won a job out of ST (if given the chance) or put himself in a position to be the first call up.

  167. LGY February 16th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Knicks weaknesses are a guard that can shoot the 3 ball and a back up PG.

    Smith solves the first problem. If B Diddy can solve the second, the Knicks are LOADED.

  168. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    rich in NJ – You obviously don’t understand what I’m talking about here.

    Your way, A-Rod eventually sits for 20-30 games a year.

    My way, A-Rod sits for 5-10 games a year, but DH’s in 20-30 games… keeping him healthy and in your lineup for more games.

    Here’s a novel idea, stop trying to purposely ignore the fact that A-Rod is the DH of the future just to justify the Montero argument. The man is 36, the man has developed sudden hip and knee problems… he’s not going to “get healthy and play full seasons” anymore. This is what A-Rod is, and he is old.

    I cant believe you think that Montero would be blocked at DH
    I can’t believe you think otherwise, so we will both refrain from calling the other stupid.

    A-Rod already DH’d 10 games in a year where he only played 100. all I’m suggesting is this will bump up by 10-15 games a year every year going forward until he is considered the DH more than the 3B. This is not absurd, but the most likely of all scenarios and it what is already happening. Arguing otherwise is just wasting time.

  169. blake February 16th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    “Didn’t you know this place is only for the most pragmatic and sane Yankee fans”

    Yea that’s probably not me ;)

  170. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    ID

    “Here’s a novel idea, stop trying to purposely ignore the fact that A-Rod is the DH of the future just to justify the Montero argument. ”

    Yet another novel idea. If A-Rod declines too much, he won’t DH.

    If Montero is a .900 OPS hitter, he won’t (or um, wouldn’t) be blocked.

  171. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Rich in NJ – OK, so do you make you decision on what Montero might be or what A-Rod is?

  172. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    So Iv been a Spurs fan since Jordan retired. Last year I was going to bandwagon jump
    to OKC now that Duncan is pretty much done. I thought it would be a smooth transition but
    they have drafted well and are the 2nd seed in the west while OKC is first. What do i do?
    Bandwagon it or stick it out and hope the team continues to be contenders even when Duncan
    retires?

    BTW, im a Yankee for life.

  173. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Yankee Trader February 16th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Jorge Arangure Jr. of ESPN The Magazine tweets that he would be very surprised if the Yankees sign Soler.
    ——————————
    GB-
    Unless the Yankees and Soler’s agent can agree on a creative deal where the Yankees don’t pay an extra 40 cents on the dollar, I don’t think he’ll be shown the $$$$. Also wonder if the Phillies will be all in, as they are trying to sign Hamels to an extension, before he hits FA and returns to California-Dodgers??

    Chip-

    Wonder if the Yankees could deal with the Phillies for Jim Thome and his 1.25M contract. He won’t be playing any first and likely with Ty Wiggington now on board will see very little time as a pinch hitter. Thoughts?
    ———————

    I think the Phillies will keep Thome. Gives them LH punch off the bench until Howard gets back.

    Giambi is the better option – the Rox have Casey Blake so he can play 1b when Helton needs a day.

  174. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    “They had a sufficient number of starters last year…”

    Hmmm…the final Jeopardy answer for today is “Brian Gordon”.

  175. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    ID

    The choice isn’t necessary at this point. They both had a position. Future decisions could have been postponed and then made with updated data.

  176. Yank 97 February 16th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    “So Iv been a Spurs fan since Jordan retired. Last year I was going to bandwagon jump
    to OKC now that Duncan is pretty much done. I thought it would be a smooth transition but
    they have drafted well and are the 2nd seed in the west while OKC is first. What do i do?
    Bandwagon it or stick it out and hope the team continues to be contenders even when Duncan
    retires?”

    Jump on the Linsanity train

  177. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    “Hmmm…the final Jeopardy answer for today is “Brian Gordon”.”

    Alex?

  178. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    Yankee Trader February 16th, 2012 at 3:46 pm
    Jorge Arangure Jr. of ESPN The Magazine tweets that he would be very surprised if the Yankees sign Soler.
    ——————————
    GB-
    Unless the Yankees and Soler’s agent can agree on a creative deal where the Yankees don’t pay an extra 40 cents on the dollar, I don’t think he’ll be shown the $$$$. Also wonder if the Phillies will be all in, as they are trying to sign Hamels to an extension, before he hits FA and returns to California-Dodgers??

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Spead some of that 40 cents on the dollar out towards a little higher deal than they would have spent?

  179. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    Rich in NJ – Sure, but those “future decisions” also involve not getting as good a pitcher as Pineda in return for Montero because at that point he would be a DH and not a catcher. Are you willing to add that risk?

    If he declines too much he won’t DH. No one is arguing that point.

    You believe today that 3 years from now, during his age 39 season, A-Rod will play more games at 3B than DH?

    A-Rod hasn’t played 150 games since 2007. He should have been DH’ing more and they should have found a new primary 3B as soon as his hip problem surfaced.

  180. dogface February 16th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    It sucks that they dug themselves such a hole though – they undoubtedly are top 3 seed talent now, but they might end up in the lower seeds and playing CHI/MIA in rd. 1

    ================================

    Win the division and they get the #3 seed. They won’t catch Miami and Chicago, unless injury allows for it, but they can catch Philly, which is all they really need to do.

  181. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    I will take a healthy/healthier Arod(a difference maker in the big leagues. top 5 hitter) over Montero(still an unknown, hasnt had a full good season at AAA yet) anyday.

  182. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    ID

    Obviously. And at this point saying he would not be a catcher is…pure speculation.

    IDK what A-Rod will be like in three years. If he had to DH and Montero is the elite hitter some think he will become, he still has tons of value.

    Or, hitting not fielding makes his hip problems worse.

  183. UnKnown February 16th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/.....48241.html

    The Rays are set now with their new mascot. I have to admit being at the Trop to watch the Yankees play in the past, it’s pretty funny when DJ Kitty is played on their video board. I mean other than that the place is a dump.

  184. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Win the division and they get the #3 seed. They won’t catch Miami and Chicago, unless injury allows for it, but they can catch Philly, which is all they really need to do.
    __

    Really. I can’t worry about anything except playing well from this point forward.

  185. GreenBeret7 February 16th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Warren, Phelps and Michell weren’t quite ready at that time of the year and Phelps and Warren were also dealing with physical issues. That’s why they weren’t called up.

  186. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    ID,
    Can you see Alex walking away a couple years earlier before his contract is up,if he continues in the future to have the same injuries and his production plummets? I say yes.

  187. Wave Your Hat February 16th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    ““Hmmm…the final Jeopardy answer for today is “Brian Gordon”.”

    Alex?”

    Just my gentle way of reminding you that instead of calling up Phelps, or Mitchell, or Warren to start, the Yanks went out and signed an outfielder to pitch instead.

  188. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    rich in NJ – Obviously. And at this point saying he would not be a catcher is…pure speculation.

    Certainly no more speculative than assuming he would be one… except I have the fact that the Yankees actions say he can’t catch working for me…

    You have to know, or try to know what A-Rod will be. You can’t have montero and A-Rod splitting time in Montero’s 3rd and 4th seasons… the decision has to be made now, based on what you think you know now. Right now they have an old $20mil+ 3B-man with hip and knee problems. They are probably not projecting that guy to stand on the field for 140-150 games a year going forward, because they are not crazy.

  189. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    SoS – He would probably have to be catastrophically bad for that to happen. Would you walk about from $20-$40mil regardless of how much you were embarrassing yourself? :p

  190. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    “Just my gentle way of reminding you that instead of calling up Phelps, or Mitchell, or Warren to start, the Yanks went out and signed an outfielder to pitch instead.”

    And an obscure one, because googling wasn’t any more fruitful than my memory.

    I hope that was a developmental issue and/or some scout thinks we can catch lightening in a bottle with this guy, but otherwise, that’s a suboptimal way to utilize one’s farm system.

  191. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Hey, since waving the surf of the butterly effect has become fashionable around these parts, how’s this one?

    If the KNicks don’t make the Melo trade, they probably still have Ray Felton on the roster, they probably only get one of Melo/Chandler, and they probably never get Jeremy Lin

    Lin/Chandler/Melo vs Melo/Felton/Gallo/Chandler/Mosgov.

    Who you got?

  192. austinmac February 16th, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    Rich,

    “If Montero is a .900 OPS hitter” is the key phrase. He was well below that in his last two years at AAA. You can predict it and my crystal ball is fuzzy, but it is very far from a sure thing. It is just as probable Pineda has an ERA below 3.2.

  193. Howe Farr February 16th, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    DONNYBROOK February 16th, 2012 at 3:44 pm
    Anyone know if the Royals are on AJ’s No Trade List?
    ____________________________________________

    You make stuff up all the time, why dont you just make up the answer to your own question?

  194. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    ID

    “Certainly no more speculative than assuming he would be one… except I have the fact that the Yankees actions say he can’t catch working for me…”

    That’s really a leap. They may just like Pineda that much.

    “You have to know, or try to know what A-Rod will be. You can’t have montero and A-Rod splitting time in Montero’s 3rd and 4th seasons… the decision has to be made now, based on what you think you know now. Right now they have an old $20mil+ 3B-man with hip and knee problems. They are probably not projecting that guy to stand on the field for 140-150 games a year going forward, because they are not crazy.”

    Again, your underlying point is that even if Montero is a .900 OPS hitter who isn’t even a 50 game catcher, he loses value. I disagree. .900 OPS guys are incredibly rare.

  195. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    ID

    Obviously. And at this point saying he would not be a catcher is…pure speculation.
    ———————————

    So saying he wouldn’t be a catcher is speculation but saying he’s going to be an elite major league bat is not?

  196. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    austinmac

    I acknowledge that it isn’t a sure thing, nothing is. But I do think he had a swing that was tailor made for NYS. IIRC, Trenton is a bad hitters’ park. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

  197. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Chip

    Of course. When have I said otherwise?

  198. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Again, your underlying point is that even if Montero is a .900 OPS hitter who isn’t even a 50 game catcher, he loses value. I disagree. .900 OPS guys are incredibly rare.

    ———————

    It’s actually more likely that Montero will be a passable major league catcher than that he will be an elite hitter.

  199. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    “Trenton is a bad hitters’ park. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.”

    You’re not wrong.

    But Montero didn’t play the last 2 seasons in Trenton. He played them in Scranton.

  200. stuckey February 16th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    And on that note, the question of why a generational bat was pretty good and not great in AAA, with regression in the second repeated year, is rarely responded to.

  201. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    “It’s actually more likely that Montero will be a passable major league catcher than that he will be an elite hitter.”

    Not according to some.

  202. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    They are probably not projecting that guy to stand on the field for 140-150 games a year going forward

    =========

    I wonder if Dr. Scholls shoes would have helped.

    ID,
    If I were the Yankees and he was broken down. I would offer him a hitting instructor job(AAA or with the big club)in hopes of him walking away from the millions thats owed. He seems to mentor alot of young athletes. I think he would be great at it. But then again, it is 20 to 30 mil. Wishful thinking.

  203. austinmac February 16th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Rich,

    I think you meant Scranton, but your point may well still hold true.

    I loved what I saw of Montero, but I also saw a young hitter who would chase with two strikes. That can be corrected or may not be as Alphonso Soriano, Dale Murphy and many others have shown. He will be pitched up and in with fastball and then down and away with breaking balls. How he adjusts to that will determine his level of success.

  204. SoS February 16th, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    And on that note, the question of why a generational bat was pretty good and not great in AAA, with regression in the second repeated year, is rarely responded to.

    ========

    Well put Stuckey. Two words. Andy Marte. Cant miss to gone.

  205. Chip February 16th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Rich in NJ February 16th, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Chip

    Of course. When have I said otherwise?
    ——————–

    Many times you have said that the Yankees made themselves weaker offensively by trading Montero – that assumes that Montero is going to be this tremendous offensive player that you’re talking about despite the fact that Montero has yet to show that kind of special ability in the minor leagues.

  206. tomingeorgia February 16th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Doc,
    That’s fun!

  207. Irreverent Discourse February 16th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Rich in NJ – There were only 17 “.900 OPS hitters” in baseball last year. It’s not very likely that Montero is going to be a .900OPS player. Not this year, not for a few years at least.

    Is it possible that what you think projects to be a “.900 OPS player” is actually an .800-.850OPS player in today’s game?

    I mean, he’s going to be at worst a passable hitter we can all acknowledge that… but pencil’ing him in for producing at the very elite 15 best hitters in the world level is foolhardy in a time when even the elite hitters are being baffled by younger more talented pitching.

    The Yankees should only be doing one of two things with their DH spot IMO… platooning above average “backups” or paying for a super elite established hitter like jerkface loves. Hoping Montero will be that doesn’t do them any good if/when he doesn’t become that, or while he is trying to. If he just becomes an .800-.850 OPS low avg power hitter… certainly more likely than him actually being Babe Ruth I think you’d agree… was that worth missing out on a chance to lock up one of your 5 rotation spots? when you have a stable of old players that can rotate in and out of your DH spot and give you somewhere around or above league average production?

    Could it happen? Sure. Martin could bat .300 and hit 20 HR’s too… pineda could win the Cy Young….

    Some things are likely to happen, some are less likely.

    Hopefully like you said earlier, they just like Pineda “that much”. This being round 3 or 4 of trading Montero… I kind of doubt it. If Pineda ends up being a solid part of the rotation, I think he can be more valuable than a DH of any caliber.

    As much as they’ll never admit it, and I’ve been saying that for over a year and a half now… Montero had to be traded when he could still be projected as a catcher. When he’s still a catcher, he’s still worth a prospect like Pineda. If he’s just a DH he’s not going to bring that caliber pitcher back. They tried moving him 2 years ago, and again last year for Lee, were basically successful in doing so and when that fell through they still sent him back to AAA to work on catching. Then when they finally called him up to use his bat after the AAA season was over, they limit his exposure by calling up Romine to catch games.

    They have now still managed to trade Montero with that perception of “he can catch eventually” for a stud pitching prospect that can have equal if not greater impact on the teams success. There was something else to this, behind the scenes and other than money. If it was attitude or work ethic or hatred from Girardi… we’ll never know… but I think we’d all admit there was some other reason we probably won’t ever find out about.

    I think it’s way easier for the Yankees to mix and match talent, age and money for a DH role than it is to do the same for the starting rotation. The timing of things didn’t work out so well this year and the better DH talent got picked up before they made this trade… you just have to live with that. by the trade deadline they should have something worked out. they survived just fine with posada essentially not hitting for half a season, they will survive with what they get this year and next year and the year after that too.

    if Pineda turns out as a SP, he can have a much greater impact than Montero could as a DH. I firmly believe that. If one turns out or the other… we can sit here and argue til we are blue int he face. If they both bust, we all look silly.

    It will be fun to watch, and I think the Yankees have a better chance of winning in the postseason with Pineda than Montero.


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