The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Late to work

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 19, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Pitchers and catchers are coming and going in the Yankees clubhouse, but one key figure has yet to show up.

Joe Girardi’s flight is delayed in New York. He’s expected to be here this afternoon.

As for the clubhouse, Jorge Posada’s corner locker has been filled by Francisco Cervelli. Andy Pettitte’s old locker is now home to Hiroki Kuroda.

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171 Responses to “Late to work”

  1. blake February 19th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Girardi will have extra time to think up up cliches for the press conference.

  2. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    1) CC – 2) Pineda – 3) Nova – 4) Banuelos – 5) Betances and one of Hamels/Cain/Greinke (6).

    With all that pitching on the horizon you don’t pass up an opportunity to acquire a young OF or 3b for one single year of Phil Hughes (2013).

  3. blake February 19th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    “With all that pitching on the horizon you don’t pass up an opportunity to acquire a young OF or 3b for one single year of Phil Hughes (2013).”

    Maybe….but it depends on which bat we are talking about and how the rotation is looking during the season.

  4. Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    No team is going to trade a young (and good) 3B or OF for Hughes anyway.

  5. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    The bat should not only be good but the position should fill a need in the OF or 3b. The Yankees could very well be offering the best starter on the market. Granted, it’s only for the final stretch of 2012 and then 2013, but pitchers have inflated value right now. I mean they just found a small market team to eat 13 million dollars for AJ Burnett. I’m confident the offers would be strong and I wouldn’t hesitate to trade Hughes if the rest of the staff is healthy and performing for the playoff push and the B’s are knocking on the door. Next year if you sign Hamels, Cain or Greinke all you need is Banuelos or Betances to step in and be a #5 starter. We should know where they stand by the trade deadline but I think it’s a strong possibility.

  6. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    That’s not necessarily true. Just because Hughes had problems, it doesn’t mean Pineda will too. Besides them being two different individuals, their pitching arsenals are not the same and it remains to be seen how much more development is needed for Pineda and his CU.

    pineda did not do well at triple a with the mariners. he was rushed and did well because 97mph fastballs with command are hard to hit at first.

    pineda will get absolutely hammered in yankee stadium with just two pitches because of teams loading up with lefties and pineda being a fly ball pitcher. the short right field will get in his head.

    he has to develop a change and two seam fastball to make the guessing less than one in two.left handed hitters like adrian gonzalez will annihilate him at yankee stadium with just two pitches.

    i give hughes
    as an example of just kicking the can down the road .he was never developed correctly. doing it right means developing four pitches. even a pitcher like mariano gets hit if a team sees him enough.
    the red sox have seen him so much his record is not that good against them compared to other teams that see him less.

    pineda will be seen non stop by the red sox over the next 4-5 years. do you want him doing it with two pitches or four pitches?

    i say send him to scranton to develop a very good change and a decent two seamer in addition to his plus four seam fastball and slider. otherwise coming to the yankees is probably going to be a step back for him.

  7. Bronx Jeers February 19th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Girardi will have extra time to think up up cliches for the press conference

    ————————————————————-

    “We felt good when booked the ticket, it just didn’t work out. That’s air travel.”

  8. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    No team is going to trade a young (and good) 3B or OF for Hughes anyway

    ******************

    The Cardinals just traded Colby Rasmus for one half season of Edwin Jackson. Hughes could have far more value than Jackson did at this upcoming trade deadline.

  9. Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Bret,

    The Yanks aren’t going to chase a big name free agent pitcher next year. They want to be under the luxury tax threshold in 2014. That’s why they traded for Pineda. And after last season, Hughes value is just not that high, especially since he’s a free agent after 2013. Frustrating, but that’s just the way it is, IMO.

  10. blake February 19th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    I don’t think they are going to sign Hamels/Grienk/ Cain next year unless some serious problems arise in their rotation …….as Wave said….I think the Pineda trade was so they wouldnt have to do that.

  11. blake February 19th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Randy,

    I have to feel like the Yanks are confident that Pineda can develop a CU in the big leagues or they wouldn’t have made the trade……guys add pitches all the time without going back to AAA…..he already throws one …..he just needs to make it better.

  12. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Randy, I hope you have your Pineda/2-pitch/Rex Sox essay saved somewhere and are just Ctrl-Ving it couple of times s day.

    I hate to think of the inefficiency of you newly typing that out over and over again.

  13. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    the short right field will get in his head.

    Maybe you should go look at how far from the fence 95% of his fly balls land…

  14. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    I’ve calculated the 2014 payroll with one of Hamels/Greinke/Cain included. I did it position by position. It fits 189 million with room to breathe. I accounted for arb raises, Cano and Granderson. I’m not going to go line-by-line because it’s an exhausting process. But I will say this. One of those pitchers will be signed by the Yankees AND BJ upton. And if they can’t trade for a RF, there’s still room for Melky Cabrera. But at the very least, one of those pitchers will be signed. When you see that reality, it’s easier to envision trading off Hughes.

  15. Crawdaddy February 19th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    I would like to see Pineda pitch as a Yankee before I start spouting off whether he should be in AAA or not.

  16. NYYanksFan February 19th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    A-Rod working out in Miami. He looks bigger.

    http://27.media.tumblr.com/tum.....o1_500.png

  17. GreenBeret7 February 19th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 10:52 am
    Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    No team is going to trade a young (and good) 3B or OF for Hughes anyway

    ******************

    The Cardinals just traded Colby Rasmus for one half season of Edwin Jackson. Hughes could have far more value than Jackson did at this upcoming trade deadline.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Remind the world when Rasmus becomes good.

  18. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    http://www.baseball-reference......211;001ale

    now this is a nice problem for the rays to have.

    gee, his triple a stats are better than pineda’s triple a stats.

    it’s just amazing how lucky they get with all these pitchers falling into their laps.

  19. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Remind the world when Edwin Jackson becomes good.

  20. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    “But I will say this. One of those pitchers will be signed by the Yankees AND BJ upton.”

    Bret, we all understand there is nothing you like better than imagining who might someday be Yankees, but now latching onto BJ Upton of all players and predicting again and again the Yankees WILL sign him is teetering on inexplicable.

  21. Northy February 19th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    @ Randy

    Guees they do a pretty good job of scouting and developing…

    A-Rod looks fat from that angle :)

  22. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    gee, his triple a stats are better than pineda’s triple a stats.

    And GEEEEE, his overall minor leagues stats are worse.

    randy, you really are trying too hard.

    Mo’s splits are also actually the worst vs LAA, CLE, not Boston like you inaccurately stated earlier.

  23. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    I can’t imagine why they would want BJ Upton, they have 85-90% of his production in Gardner already with no cost.

  24. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Bret,

    The Yanks aren’t going to chase a big name free agent pitcher next year. They want to be under the luxury tax threshold in 2014. That’s why they traded for Pineda.

    **************

    This is a myth started here on LOHUD. The acquisition of Pineda was not made in order to avoid Cole Hamels or Zack Greinke or Matt Cain. The Yankees traded for Pineda because they needed to make more long term improvements to the staff than could be solved by simply signing one of those guys. Adding Pineda also gives them some leverage in case all 3 of those guys get extensions. That doesn’t mean they will pass on all 3 should they all reach the market. I’m not going to mope here thinking trading Montero = no Cole Hamels. Boo hoo. It’s a crock.

  25. Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    I don’t see the point of comparing two sets of AAA stats based on only 12 games each, especially when one pitcher was 23 and the other 21, and one in the PCL and the other in the International League.

  26. Joe from Long Island February 19th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    so, pineda, who was a roy candidate last year, should go to aaa, and rasmus, who has yet to have a solid, good, consistent ml season, is held out as a desirable ballayer.

    makes me think of jefferson airplane’s white rabbit.

  27. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    It’s very unlikely the Yankees will pony up enough to win Hamels/Cain/Greinke. It’s not a matter of “passing on them” because of PIneda/B’s… it’s that they don’t need to overpay because they are desperate. They are not desperate, which means they usually don’t get a FA they are after unless they REALLY want to play in NY.

  28. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    I would like to see Pineda pitch as a Yankee before I start spouting off whether he should be in AAA or not.”

    yes, imagining the future is a useless skill.

    why clutter your mind with what could happen?

    everyone knows being proactive is just for people that like to overly prepare.

    i mean, what’s the fun in that ? having to put out fires on the fly is the best way to develop mental toughness in yankee stadium.

  29. Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Bret-

    I love the Pineda deal, but I also understand it means no Hamels. I’m fine with that.

  30. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    why clutter your mind with what could happen?
    Why clutter your mind with things no one else thinks will happen but you?

  31. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    **************

    This is a myth started here on LOHUD. The acquisition of Pineda was not made in order to avoid Cole Hamels or Zack Greinke or Matt Cain.”

    We will see….but it makes sense…..also Cain is going to get extended and Hamels will probably either get extended or go to LA….

  32. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    “it’s just amazing how lucky they get with all these pitchers falling into their laps.”

    Yeah, getting David Price really defined the odds…

  33. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    If the Yankees can trade for a RF replacement for Swish, BJ Upton will be signed. If they can’t, Melky Cabrera will be signed for RF and Gardner stays. Pick your poison. Swish is not coming back. We went through this same junk with the departure of Abreu, Damon and then Matsui. Still some fans want Giambi. I think maybe some fans have attachment disorders.

  34. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    “makes me think of jefferson airplane’s white rabbit.”

    well you’re the guy who hands out pills.

    i guess you’d know all about that.

  35. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    Swish is not coming back

    For his option?

    Sorry Bret, you are 100% wrong. I’ll wager any amount of money they pick up Swisher’s option… if you’re good for it.

  36. Crawdaddy February 19th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    “everyone knows being proactive is just for people that like to overly prepare.”

    With your warped brain, you’re a piece of work. I don’t understand how anybody can take you seriously.

  37. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    “Yeah, getting David Price really defined the odds…”

    please take the position the rays don’t do an amazing job with developing starting pitching :)

  38. 86w183 February 19th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Randy you cannot be serious about sending Pineda to AAA.

    He was 7th in MLB in K/9 innings among ALL starters. That’s big time stuff. He used the change more late in the year — thanx to King Felix — and it helped him get over a mini-slump.

    Most starters are 3-pitch guys unless you count 2-seam and 4-seam fastball separately, which I do not.

  39. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    pineda will get absolutely hammered in yankee stadium with just two pitches because of teams loading up with lefties and pineda being a fly ball pitcher. the short right field will get in his head.
    ///

    I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to be concerned that a guy with a fb/slider combo, devastating or not, may begin to have some timing issues, especially as he gets deeper into a game.

    I said this here earlier and the usual moral police and kumbaya patrol came after me: I can see Pineda ringing up Ks and dominating for six or so innings in a close game, but being prone to give up a jack as the game wears on and he grows tired, and the hitters begin to time him.

    This isn’t some indictment of him, or some foreboding of doom for him, nor is it some emotionally colored observation because I’m pissed off about Montero.

    That’s the way it can go for right-handed power pitchers in our park, especially if you don’t bring something truly offspeed to keep hitters honest. He has high flyball rates and high HR rates per his flyball percentage, and that’s actually against RHB. Also 42 percent flyball rates vs. LHB is potentially troublesome in the new house.

    Can he dominate lineups? Sure, he can. But as a caution, as you ring up those Ks, you can become overconfident and therefore reckless. He really does need at least a 2-seamer to mix in that can get groundballs, especially late into his starts.

    Clemens, who no one is going to argue was not great, had these issues, particularly at home.

  40. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    “With your warped brain, you’re a piece of work. I don’t understand how anybody can take you seriously.”

    true believers always have a difficult time understanding creativity.

  41. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    S”orry Bret, you are 100% wrong. I’ll wager any amount of money they pick up Swisher’s option… if you’re good for it.”

    Swish had a club option this year that they picked up…..he’s a FA after this season.

  42. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Swisher’s option was picked up. This is his walk year and he’s not coming back. Say goodbye.

  43. Crawdaddy February 19th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    “I don’t see the point of comparing two sets of AAA stats based on only 12 games each, especially when one pitcher was 23 and the other 21, and one in the PCL and the other in the International League.”

    Because Randy is all about appearing to be the smartest fan in the room so he has a constant urge to cherry pick any type of information to support his agenda.

  44. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Id bring Swisher back on a Cuddyer deal…….but I think he’s gonna want a lot more than that and id be very hesitant to go much farther…..of course a lot depends on what alternatives are available.

  45. Crawdaddy February 19th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    “true believers always have a difficult time understanding creativity.”

    You’re a broken down minor league catcher without much room for creativity in that foul ball struck brain on yours.

  46. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Bret, the only thing you and I seem to agree on is Melky.

    But I can’t see them resigning him. They don’t think he’s a “Yankee.”

    So I guess you have to live and die with that about them: Montero isn’t “Yankee” enough (see: refuses voluntary castration) for them.

  47. LGY February 19th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Maybe they want Ibanez because he’s TEH CLUTCH?

    Career .280 BA, .813 OPS vs. .298 BA and .869 OPS with RISP. Also despite having an all around terrible year last season, .292 and .842 OPS with RISP

    The .231/.280/.376 career postseason line throws a wrinkle into my theory tho :(

    Also, this is for stuckey:

    Raul Ibanez last two seasons away from CBP vs. RHP: .248/.320/.381

  48. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    I think its easy to worry about Pineda’s CU and miss how rare it is for a guy to throw 97 with command and have a plus slider at age 22.

  49. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    “please take the position the rays don’t do an amazing job with developing starting pitching :)”

    Randy, I’ve already very clearly explained my position on the Rays pitching. You just don’t possess the tools to understand it.

    Let me make it simple for you.

    The Rays MIGHT very well do an amazing job developing starting pitching.

    The Rays MIGHT be on a run of luck.

    You absolutely might very well be guessing right. You might not.

    So yeah, have yourself a field day trying to make hay with wait-and-see position.

    Me, I’m still wrapping my head around you not knowing who the Red Sox best player was last year and apparently not understanding the Red Sox developed Ellsbury, Lester and Pedroia.

  50. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Prufrock – Just a quick tweak to that… His HR/FB was 9%, that’s not “high” by any stretch of the imagination.

    Let’s see how he pitches in the stadium before we start speculating that things are going to fall apart, huh?

    The man would literally not actually have given up a single extra home run moving his home games from Seattle to NY last year.

  51. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    “Raul Ibanez last two seasons away from CBP vs. RHP: .248/.320/.381″

    Thanks.

  52. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    If they sign Ibanez then its for one of two reasons..1) damon wont come off 5 million 2) they think Ibanez will be easier and cleaner to part with during the season if they have to.

  53. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    I don’t know why i had it in my head his option was for 2013. Sorry about that Bret and blake.

    They still aren’t signing BJ Upton though. :) He’s terrible, and he’s the wrong Upton.

  54. Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    “blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:19 am
    I think its easy to worry about Pineda’s CU and miss how rare it is for a guy to throw 97 with command and have a plus slider at age 22.”

    This.

  55. LGY February 19th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I’ve calculated the 2014 payroll with one of Hamels/Greinke/Cain included. I did it position by position. It fits 189 million with room to breathe. I accounted for arb raises, Cano and Granderson. I’m not going to go line-by-line because it’s an exhausting process. But I will say this. One of those pitchers will be signed by the Yankees AND BJ upton. And if they can’t trade for a RF, there’s still room for Melky Cabrera. But at the very least, one of those pitchers will be signed. When you see that reality, it’s easier to envision trading off Hughes.

    —————

    You could have saved yourself the time and just looked at the several posts RAB has done about the 2014 payroll this winter. Like this one below, specifically focusing on if they can afford to go after Cole Hamels

    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....ead-62600/

  56. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    “I said this here earlier and the usual moral police and kumbaya patrol came after me”

    J. Alfred Prufrock-

    “What we’ve got here is (a) failure to communicate”

    this blog has a very difficult time with opposing opinions.

    sometimes i take positions just to make the rigid ones crazy.

    people like blake get that. a few others too.

    but mostly this blog has become full of people trying to make themselves feel good by shutting off their brains.

    the good old days of sj44 and cb have gone by the wayside.

    the blog is at it’s lowest point for intelligent discussion from points of view all over the spectrum. too many true believers and conformists.

  57. muwarriorsfan February 19th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    “Raul Ibanez last two seasons away from CBP vs. RHP: .248/.320/.381?

    The New York Yankees idea of a good DH. UGH…

  58. jacksquat February 19th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Pineda already has a changeup and two seamer, he just needs to work on them. He doesn’t need to learn them from scratch. He said he is going to do that in spring training, which is when you do that.

    He is not going to the minors, period.

  59. Best To Ever Do It February 19th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    http://www.baseball-reference……211;001ale

    now this is a nice problem for the rays to have.

    gee, his triple a stats are better than pineda’s triple a stats.

    it’s just amazing how lucky they get with all these pitchers falling into their laps

    ————

    That’s a hot button topic Randy. You know what happens when you bring up the Rays.

  60. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Randy is just a trouble maker basically :)

  61. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:19 am
    I think its easy to worry about Pineda’s CU and miss how rare it is for a guy to throw 97 with command and have a plus slider at age 22.
    ///

    Well those tools would be why he can dominate a lineup and and can often get away with not having a 3rd pitch. So, the point is conceded to him that he’s already dominant.

    Why not make him virtually invincible? He himself seems to understand the need to refine his 2-seamer and changeup.

  62. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Yanks just traded AJ, meaning you can Cease dreaming up trade scenarios involving Hughes or any other current Yankee SP. The depth in SP aint what it was. Yanks have now gotta let ST unfold, gauge how the starters look and how healthy they all are, and then ascertain whether they can afford to deal a SP to strengthen any possible area of need. Some of you guys are either bored outta your minds, or have followed Girardi’s lead and simply not shown up for work.

  63. 98NYY February 19th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    It will be interesting seeing Pineta pitch with run support and Montero trying to hit 4th with no legitimate support.

  64. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    “Why not make him virtually invincible? He himself seems to understand the need to refine his 2-seamer and changeup.”

    Im sure that’s the plan ;)

  65. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Why not make him virtually invincible?

    Aren’t they working on this already? Everything they and Pineda have said is “working on another pitch”… let it happen.

  66. LGY February 19th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    To borrow a phrase from my buddy GB, it takes some serious voodoo math to calculate the Yankees staying under $189M in 2014 while signing Hamels/Greinke/Cain, BJ Upton, and re-signing Cano and Granderson.

  67. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    “I think its easy to worry about Pineda’s CU and miss how rare it is for a guy to throw 97 with command and have a plus slider at age 22.”

    blake-

    you played at a high level. you’re a left handed hitter at yankee stadium with the bases loaded in the 6th inning with no one out with pineda pitching.

    the count is 1-0. the first pitch was a fastball that missed away. what are you looking for as a hitter if pineda only has two pitches even if they are plus pitches?

    you have to be looking fastball. if it spins you let it go. if that spinning pitch is a strike. you are still 1 and 1. so you look fastball on that second pitch.

    you think that a good left handed major league hitter can’t hit a 97 mph four seam fastball when he’s guessing fastball and it’s 50/50 he’s going to get it?

  68. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    but mostly this blog has become full of people trying to make themselves feel good by shutting off their brains.

    randy – A lot of people would argue that you are the only one doing this.

    the blog is at it’s lowest point for intelligent discussion from points of view all over the spectrum. too many true believers and conformists.

    Completely disagree. It’s lacking in people you agree with, nothing more.

  69. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    “this blog has a very difficult time with opposing opinions.”

    An opposing position like, say, the Tampa Rays run of homegrown starting pitching MAY be as much a product of luck as much as skill… an opposing opinion like that, you mean?

    “sometimes i take positions just to make the rigid ones crazy.”

    No, too often you embarrass yourself and as a defense mechanism and then claim your stupid, illogical arguments were trolling.

    “the blog is at it’s lowest point for intelligent discussion from points of view all over the spectrum. too many true believers and conformists.”

    Which would seem like a logical opportunity for someone who truly believed that to find another forum where his capabilities would be matched, and appreciated. But no, you seem to be admitting you spend an awful lot of your free time campaigning to be mayor of a confederacy of dunces.

  70. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:11 am
    **************

    This is a myth started here on LOHUD. The acquisition of Pineda was not made in order to avoid Cole Hamels or Zack Greinke or Matt Cain.”

    We will see….but it makes sense…..also Cain is going to get extended and Hamels will probably either get extended or go to LA….

    ************

    It only makes sense if you think the Yankees could’ve reconstructed their staff simply by signing one of those guys. It only makes sense if you see Pineda as the whole final solution rather than just part of the solution.

    Me personally?

    I’m pretty sure that the Pineda deal was just one small part of constructing their staff long term.

  71. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    “Randy is just a trouble maker basically”

    causing trouble is interesting :)

  72. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    As I’ve said several times…..I think Montero and Pineda are equal talents and Im really excited to have Pineda……my issue with the trade is based on the Yankees needs IMO……I think they needed Montero longterm more than they needed Pineda longterm …..Id love to be wrong.

  73. Wave Your Hat February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Randy-

    SJ44 made a lot of excellent comments here, and we are the poorer for his departure, but he was one of the worst at handling opposing opinions. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses.

    This is just one guy’s opinion, but you yourself are a true believer yourself, in a negative way. You foresee disaster from anything Cashman does, because you can’t get past your dislike of him. You are pretty solid when Cashman’s not involved.

    Like I said, everyone has strengths and weaknesses.

  74. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    you think that a good left handed major league hitter can’t hit a 97 mph four seam fastball when he’s guessing fastball and it’s 50/50 he’s going to get it?

    A lot of them couldn’t last year.

    I think making up crazy hypotheticals where he “needs a changeup” is ridiculous.

    He is going to work on a change-up

    Somehow, he just didn’t learn one in the offseason, I guess that’s what spring training is for.

    When he doesn’t learn a changeup, or a curve, or something to keep lefties honest then your complaints will have merit. Until then you are just complaining for the sake of complaining. He’s 23? He has plenty of time to work an offspeed pitch into his arsenal.

    I assume if Montero was still here you wouldn’t be harping on how he needs to work on his plate discipline or he will never become an elite hitter?

    No, that would be crazy.

  75. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    “the count is 1-0. the first pitch was a fastball that missed away. what are you looking for as a hitter if pineda only has two pitches even if they are plus pitches?”

    Heater of course but I couldn’t hit it anyway which is why Im talking to you right now instead of heading to Tampa :)

  76. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    But no, you seem to be admitting you spend an awful lot of your free time campaigning to be mayor of a confederacy of dunces.

    BAHAHAHAHAHA.

    This is priceless.

  77. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    “causing trouble is interesting”

    Is this an admission to trolling and baiting?

  78. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    “An opposing position like, say, the Tampa Rays run of homegrown starting pitching MAY be as much a product of luck as much as skill… an opposing opinion like that, you mean?”

    go ahead, make my day , and tell us how the rays are lucky rather than good at developing starting pitching.

    this is going to be quite entertaining.

  79. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    “go ahead, make my day , and tell us how the rays are lucky rather than good at developing starting pitching.”

    I already did.

    Need a larger sample size.

  80. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    tell us how the rays are lucky rather than good at developing starting pitching.

    I think they are pretty clearly lucky AND good. There is NO reason to draw a line there.

  81. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Blake,

    Now that Rothschild’s in control rather than the other guy, I have some more optimism that such plans are in process for all the young pitchers. They sent Nova down to concentrate on his slider, and that really worked wonders.

    But I have one question for the high-strung chiuauas who come nipping at the ankles on every post that suggests the Yankees take more of a birds-eye, long-term view of Pineda rather than going all Joba 2007 on him (yes, I know Joba was in the bullpen – I mean in terms of riding something dynamic rather than giving it room to breathe and mature)…

    If those folks had it in for Pineda (which is really dumbing down arguments to suit THEIR agenda: which is turn anyone who hated the deal into a Pineda assassin), why would we be cautioning the Yankees to handle him with care, or pre-empting criticism of him if he doesn’t produce like a No. 2?? Even the Yankees are going to use Kuroda as a shield between Pineda as CC’s running mate for the front-end initially.

    What the Yankees and Pineda DON’T need is the heming/hawing GM making dumb statements that the kid has to justify the trade.

  82. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    What the Yankees and Pineda DON’T need is the heming/hawing GM making dumb statements that the kid has to justify the trade.

    I think one statement made minutes after the trade was announced hardly classifies as “hemming and hawing”.

    You guys really try to rail on Cashman so hard you are blind to how ridiculous it sounds most of the time.

  83. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    “What the Yankees and Pineda DON’T need is the heming/hawing GM making dumb statements that the kid has to justify the trade.”

    No argument from me…..

  84. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:44 am

    J.AP,

    Genuine, straight forward question: If Brian Cashman indeed traded Montero for a pitcher who needs additional AAA seasoning, would YOU use this specific fact as a basis to criticize the trade.

    Yes or no answer is all that’s required.

  85. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    “You guys really try to rail on Cashman so hard you are blind to how ridiculous it sounds most of the time.”

    I think I’ve stated here that I think Cashman is one of the 5 best GM’s in baseball…..but can say some dumb things publically sometimes……there are worse qualities in a GM to have

  86. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    “SJ44 made a lot of excellent comments here, and we are the poorer for his departure, but he was one of the worst at handling opposing opinions.”

    i never had any trouble with sj44 and consider him a friend even though i’ve never met him.

    sure he disagreed with me all the time, but he did it in a way that provoked intelligent knowledgeable baseball conversation .

    i’m sure right now he disagree with my position on pineda and montero, but so what? the point is learning more about the game, and i always did that in debate with sj44.

  87. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    There’s nothing contradictory about having a kid acknowledge that he needs and intends to work on his changeup, and an observation that doing so to good effect is important to his success.

    In fact, it indicates that this is a neutral observation that anyone who is reasonable understands.

    The objection, then, would seem to be discussing it at all.

    Which makes no sense on a discussion board about baseball.

  88. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Randy is a contrarian…..but he knows the game….as well as anyone who posts here….so whether you agree with him or not he does start a lot of baseball related debate and I don’t see that as a bad thing.

  89. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    blake- randy’s actual opinion is not what most take issue with, but his method of delivering it and then just telling the rest of us we “aren’t as smart as SJ or SB”.

    He could do with learning how to relate his opinion to people a little smoother.

    We all constantly work on that here though, I guess. He just seems proud to ignore everyone else entirely.

  90. Jackson February 19th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    Daniel Barbarisi @DanBarbarisi
    In his first public comments on his personal situation, gm brian cashman says last month has been “difficult. Very difficult.”

    Daniel Barbarisi @DanBarbarisi
    Cashman says he expects he will be able to do his job without distraction, and doesnt expect his job is in jeopardy because of his issues.

  91. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    If the Yanks woulda signed Damon, where would he have batted? Jeet leading off, with Grandy in the 2 Hole, woulda left Damon batting way down in the order. This coulda been a major factor in the Yankee No-Go on Damon. I still pass on Ibanez, and agree with those saying give Branyan a shot at that spot on the 25 Man. I would use Dickerson as the 4th OF’er, Nunez as the utility IF’er, and forget about Chavez.

  92. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    In order there to be a group-think that some posters don’t have the creativity to challenge and some do, don’t we have to establish what the group-think is?

    Anyone have any empirical data that establishes whether generally supporting the Yankees’ FO or generally be critical of the Yankees’ FO is the prevailing group-think?

    I have to admit, I’m not sure which one it is…

  93. austinmac February 19th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Randy has turned into one of the Boston trolls. He says the same thing many times a day as if it makes it more true. No, it makes his agenda more obvious. This may benhis only place for attention.

  94. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 11:51 am

    stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:44 am
    J.AP,

    Genuine, straight forward question: If Brian Cashman indeed traded Montero for a pitcher who needs additional AAA seasoning, would YOU use this specific fact as a basis to criticize the trade.

    Yes or no answer is all that’s required.
    ///

    Sorry, your terms for my answer don’t really make any sense to me.

    I was AGAINST them trading Montero for ANY starter, polished or not: I have said this OVER AND OVER again! I think they had enough pitching once Kuroda was signed. I’d have to pretend I was interested in Felix Hernandez for Montero (I adamantly wasn’t) and be false to my own viewpoint to satisfy your disingenous little game that you believe would TRAP me into being as disingenuous as you are.

    Montero was needed because of the lineup.

    BUT: Now that Pineda is here, the Yankees need to do right by him. That means developing him properly, and I agree with Randy and others who have pointed this out: he is still in a developmental phase.

  95. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    OT – DVRd the Whitney Houston memorial and I have to say that I am always blown away by Baptist services, especially Afro-American Baptist services. (Actually I feel much the same way attending Hispanic Catholic services.) They are some of the most amazing devotional services, and the gospel music is beyond belief. I grew up in the Catholic church and most Catholics I think would agree that our services are nothing like those.

    I do have to say, though, that the same God that was so powerful to them in that service, whom they say is the center of their lives and always first in their lives, also loves Bobby Brown. I think the disrespect with which he was treated was the antithesis of christian and Godly behavior. In a church that size, surely they had room for the people with him.

    *************

    Getting ready for Linsanity to make its return.

    :)

    Don’t know if anyone watched SNL but thought I thought the Linsanity skit was pretty funny in its approach, I also wondered if they went too far overboard with it and if Jeremy Lin would have found humor in it – if he watches it that is. If not, I’m sure he’ll hear about it.

  96. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    “Randy has turned into one of the Boston trolls.”

    Randy acknowledged this just a few moments ago.

    “randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    “causing trouble is interesting :)”

  97. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I agree with Randy and others who have pointed this out: he is still in a developmental phase.

    Do you also agree with randy that Pineda is destined for AAA/failure? That seems to be the crux of most of the argument that is really going on here.

    No one here is saying a third pitch won’t greatly improve Pineda’s chances of success. Are they? I don’t see that anywhere.

  98. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    “Randy has turned into one of the Boston trolls.”

    austin mac-

    do you have any baseball information or opinion you want to add or do you just want to call names across the internet?

  99. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    BryanHoch Yankees still want a lefty-hitting DH who can play some outfield – Ibanez is main target. Cashman says Chavez’s return isn’t a sure thing. 12 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

  100. blake February 19th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    pcaldera Mariano Rivera said he might be a little late to camp. Cashman: “What am I going to do? He’s Mariano Rivera…He’ll get his 8 innings in.” 29 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

    lol

  101. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    do you have any baseball information or opinion you want to add or do you just want to call names across the internet?

    randy calling out austimac for employing the randy school of defense mechanisms.

    This place is much more entertaining on Sundays than Saturday’s.

  102. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Just read J Al’s post, since it was right before mine.

    I’ve already noted that giving Pineda time in AAA would be nothing but good for him, especially in terms of resting his arm and giving him time to develop at a better pace for him. Mine has nothing to do with my thinking he needs to develop any more pitches because I too believe pitchers in the majors can work on those things. We’ve seen it time and again. I just think that since he was rushed up, a la Hughes, Kennedy, Joba, etc., it would be fair to him and to future of his arm – and hence his services to the Yanks – to give him the minior-league time most young guns are given.

    Now that AJ is gone, though, I don’t see it as a possibility since that would leave us without a spot starter in the pen. The Yankees will NEVER go for that – nor should they.

  103. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    J.AP,

    “I’d have to pretend I was interested in Felix Hernandez for Montero (I adamantly wasn’t) and be false to my own viewpoint to satisfy your disingenous little game that you believe would TRAP me into being as disingenuous as you are.”

    This is the sort of thing that makes people question your motivations about Pineda. I asked a simple, reasonable question, and you couldn’t get through a one word response without foaming at the mouth.

    I suspect people here are suspicious of you looking for multiple angles to continue your crusade against this decision, which is steeped in the sort of wingnut response you just deemed appropriate to type out and post.

  104. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Randy acknowledged this just a few moments ago.

    “randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    “causing trouble is interesting”

    ———————–

    stuckey-

    i should add a qualifier.

    causing trouble with certain people or groups is interesting :)

  105. austinmac February 19th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    I express my opinions regularly, but I don’t feel a personal need to repeat them.

    But, once again regarding the trade, I say let it play out. Pineda needs further development as does virtually every other 23 year old pitcher in the history of baseball. He did have one of the best seasons for a 22 year old for many years.

    Likewise, Montero’s poor catching skills and .814 OPS in AAA suggests he ness development as well.

    As always, time will tell and not one sided, closed minded statements.

    Clear enough?

  106. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Cashman get paids $Millions. Expecting him to measure his words aint asking too much. I like his stones for making the Pineda deal, but the guy is quickly turning into a Yankee Diva. He now craves attention, and at times, makes dumb comments in order attract it.

  107. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Day 27 of the Montero crisis. Montero is still gone and the same 3 people still can’t accept it. Other conversations have devolved into “excuses for not talking about Montero”. Only a few posters left now… soon it will all be silence….

    Can we talk about something that actually matters to the coming season?

    Now that AJ is gone, I assume the plan is still Hughes or Nova to AAA out of ST? I really don’t see them sending Hughes to the bullpen, they need to get him starting proper so they can trade him. I think they ship on him staying here long term may have sailed until he really turns it on this year.

    Is garcia to the pen/getting cut growing on anyone else if he falters?

  108. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    austimac, that’s just ridiculous. Some people have adversarial styles.

    Calling someone a Boston troll is just low blowing. He didn’t like the trade; well, you know, judging by the bum’s rush to “get over it” around here, like they traded Jorge Vaszquez, I’d say this board has a bigger problem with a short fuse when anyone questions Yankee management.

    It was the same outrage here last year when MANY wondered aloud why Girardi didn’t use a pinch hitter in a few spots that might have saved the Yankees’ postseason.

    I don’t remember if you were among those or not; but the point stands.

    But some of us don’t hail from Stepford, Conn. You’re going to call anyone a “Redsox troll” for daring to think individually? I’m going to have to call you an internet bully who can’t handle diverse opinions.

    I find this board pretty odious these days; there are four guys in here (who’ll remain nameless) who try to construct arguments by leaping on a word – whether poorly chosen, metaphorical allusion, or one which has meaning that can cut more than one way – and will debate to the death and hold this board hostage with their self-serving, hollow arguments…they then strut around when they think they’ve won some larger point…or they go on the offensive when someone tells them they’ve “lost”….talk about tedious.

  109. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    As always, time will tell and not one sided, closed minded statements.

    This should be a required check box before submitting any posts.

  110. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    austinmac – hear hear!

    ID – they definitely won’t go north with just 5 starters. Who is their spot starter in the pen if Hughes or Nova go to AAA (or I am not counting corrrectly)?

  111. Tar February 19th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    “but he knows the game….as well as anyone who posts here….so whether you agree with him or not he does start a lot of baseball related debate and I don’t see that as a bad thing.”

    I agree.

    Again, attack the post not the poster. Everyone around here should remind themselves of that before hitting submit, Myself included.

  112. Jackson February 19th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Bryan Hoch @BryanHoch

    The Yankees weren’t trying to win the AL East late in 2010. Cashman admits NYY decided to chase Wild Card and get healthy instead.

  113. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    I’m going to have to call you an internet bully who can’t handle diverse opinions.
    Pretty sure that’s what he was calling him… I really don’t think any of this has ANYTHING to do with randy thinking as an individual and everything to do with how he treats everyone else’s opinion here… which is to say he treats them like trash because they aren’t coming from the mouth of his 2 idols.

    Now he’s backpeddling and saying he trolls people purposefully rather than actually believe some of the nonsense he writes as “fact”… which is either immature or dishonest. This only further degrades his posts.

  114. Jackson February 19th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Erik Boland @eboland11

    Cashman said regardless of speculation, Pineda not likely to be slotted as No. 2 starter. has only two pitches; needs to work on changeup

  115. Bronx Jeers February 19th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Damon’s officially out and the Yanks need to meet to see if they can sign Ibanez? And what’s up with those penny pinching T-shirts I see the players wearing?

    I’m telling you I’d stay away from the stadium hot dogs this season. God only knows what they’re buying. :wink:

  116. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    trisha – Well that’s why I think I am beginning to like Garcia in the pen better than Hughes/Nova in AAA… all things being equal of course. Obviously whoever is struggling shouldn’t be shoe-horned into any slot.

  117. austinmac February 19th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    JAP,

    It is ridiculous to repeat the same diatribe multiple times every day, as it is to seemingly enjoy Cashman’s marital issues.

    You can enjoy it all you want, but the motivation, no matter how curious, strikes me as odd as does your need to defend it.

  118. stuckey February 19th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    “i should add a qualifier.

    “causing trouble with certain people or groups is interesting :)

    And you don’t think EVERY troll justifies their actions in the same exact manner? You don’t think Boston trolls justify what they do by rationalizing that the “certain people and groups” they troll are deserving Yankee fans?

    By suggesting you get to decide who gets trolled, you’re just acknowledging you are a troll.

    But I’m going to defend you. Even though you’re admitting to trolling, I don’t think you are.

    I think you have difficulty expressing a coherent argument and when inevitably called on this in this forum, you fall back on the tried and true “I was just baiting/trolling” defense.

    This is a common tactic by under-tooled forum town fools. You’ve constructed a scenario (in your head) in which you can never be wrong.

    This is paint-by-numbers stuff here.

  119. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Do you also agree with randy that Pineda is destined for AAA/failure?
    ///

    I’m not the court stenographer, but I read enough to grasp that what I read is pretty detailed on what is necessary for Pineda to succeed. If failure was imminent, how could there be such detail of conditions needed for success? Wrap your head around that, if you can.

  120. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    blake and Tar – as someone who was at the end of one of randy’s relentless attacks in the past, complete with him suggesting that when I showed up I had flown in on my broom, I have no difficulty with randy posting about baseball. I do have a problem when he adds nastiness to the mix because I don’t see a need for that.

    Kindness if priceless, and the best part is that it costs nothing (except a little pride maybe, and that’s not such a bad thing.)

    :)

  121. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    And the Braun Watch continues…………………….

  122. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    I find this board pretty odious these days

    No more tedious than the sermonizing by a select few here about how they “know so much better than the rest of us” or how we “never actually watch baseball games”.

    Everyone here could use a little more humility, respect and understanding in their posts.

    If you think you are above that, then you are exactly the person I’m speaking to.

  123. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    “As always, time will tell and not one sided, closed minded statements.

    Clear enough?”

    austin mac-

    good.

    we’ll be expecting your next opinion around the all star break when there are some results in.

  124. m February 19th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    So, is the blog going to bogged down by “the rays can develop good pitchers, but can’t retain them?

    Nothing wrong with the blog now, except some good people who were nice folk don’t post any more.

    randy l, I know you like to stir it up, but the only thing you’re stirring up is your own %#*^. :P

  125. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Wrap your head around that, if you can.

    Prufrock – When are you going to stop posting like this? Unreal.

    You seem to think you are always “the better person” but refuse to act that way.

  126. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    “as someone who was at the end of one of randy’s relentless attacks in the past, complete with him suggesting that when I showed up I had flown in on my broom, ”

    trisha-

    gee, i thought that was kind of funny at the time.

  127. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    You can tell it’s Sunday. The pulpit is occupied.

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    you can enjoy it all you want, but the motivation, no matter how curious, strikes me as odd as does your need to defend it.
    ///

    My need? You’re amusing me, now. This mud slinging has gone on for weeks, here; I’ve ignored nearly all of it. My point today is that it’s not exactly far fetched to acknowledge that right-handed power pitchers can be vulnerable to their own style of success in Yankee Stadium.

    Why else would LHP be such a Yankee obsession?

    I’m defending the rights of people to express their own take on Yankee matters, without getting jumped by Bob Lorenz bobble-heads and slowing down the actual matter of what is being discussed.

    That’s it; I’m done with this discussion. Be a bully, if that suits you. I’ll keep skimming for posts that actually express ideas worth reading.

  129. Duh Innings February 19th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    What’s with the Colby Rasmus bashing?

    He had a decent, eighth in the N.L. Rookie Of The Year voting rookie season in 2009, a 23 HR, 66 RBI, .276/.361/.498/.859 slashline in his sophomore year, and a step down 2011. Not great, not very good overall, but he was better than expected in 2009 (most rookies aren’t) and very good in 2010. He’s only 25, not even in his prime yet (to me 26-29.) The one bad year out of three he’s played was unfortunately his last one, so he looks worse than he is.

    I would rather have 25-year old Rasmus playing 3B and batting ninth, A-Rod DH every day over 36/37-year old A-Rod playing 3B every day and 40-year old can’t play the field capably anymore Ibanez at DH, if the Yanks even sign Ibanez i.e. he accepts the mil base contract that’s reportedly being offered to him which I think is too low considering he did post 20 HR and 80+ RBI last season. He might say “$2M guaranteed” and he wouldn’t be unreasonable as the Yanks wasted $11.75M on these three guys who didn’t play for the Yanks last season: Igawa ($4M), Feliciano ($4M), and Marte ($4M – $250K buyout) and will blow another $4M paying Feliciano. Plus the Yanks just saved a big chunk of money unloading Burnett (or I should say will save pending MLB’s expected approval of the trade.) If I’m Ibanez I ask for $4M and say “You paid Igawa that, I’m worth that, and you just unloaded Burnett.” Who would the Yanks sign for DH? Damon is off the table, Matsui has been off the table, and Jorge Vasquez isn’t and never will be on the table.

    In fact, I would trade for Rasmus and start him at 3B and #9 right now, or make him the DH who starts 2 of every 6 games at 3B so A-Rod transitions into being a full-time DH in 2013. A 25-year old 3B with power the Yanks have under control for three seasons vs. a 40-year old DH who can’t play the field, might not even make it through an entire season and if he does will most likely be in his last or second to last season. I’ll take the 3B, thanks.

    I would love to see Rasmus at 3B, Melky re-signed for RF, and A-Rod the full-time DH in 2013 then a new SS for 2014. It would force Jeter to consider retirement after 2013 or at least dropping his 2014 player’s option if he still wanted to play since there’d be no room for him in the everyday lineup with A-Rod at DH and a kid at SS. Who envisions Jeter at SS in 2014? I certainly don’t. The ONLY way I’m cool with Jeter coming back in ’14 is if he has a ’13 like any year he’s had save ’10, but he has to have a good ’12 first.

  130. austinmac February 19th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    I D,

    Well said. Disagree with me all you want. I may be wrong. Arguing with someone who believes they have all the answers is a waste of breath.

  131. Jackson February 19th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Andrew Marchand @AndrewMarchand

    He admitted team didn’t try to win division in 2010, something the manager has always denied

  132. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    “trisha-

    gee, i thought that was kind of funny at the time.”

    I’m sure you did. But the fact that my biggest sin at the time was to vehemently disagree with you about Posada didn’t really warrant that comment, IMO.

  133. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    “randy l, I know you like to stir it up, but the only thing you’re stirring up is your own %#*^. ”

    m

    you know how good this blog used to be.

    i’m stirring it up because it needs it.

  134. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    i’m stirring it up because it needs it

    No randy, no we do NOT need you acting like a jerk because it entertains you.

    Has anyone ever seen the Bill Maher skits about the republican living in a bubble? That’s how I picture randy… I just can’t figure out if the keyboard is inside the bubble with him or not.

  135. austinmac February 19th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Randy,

    Their are other issues on a baseball team besides a completed trade or the GM’s personal life. I would be glad to hear those. It is the repetitiveness and sanctimony on those issues that is so tiresome.

    Prediction–Pineda will be quite good, but, yes, we shall see. That is my point.

  136. Tar February 19th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Trish

    I’m not saying Randy is an angel. What I posted definitely applies to him as well.

    It’s kind of funny because all the flak randy is getting now, kind reminds me of some of the times you have experienced around here. It wasn’t right against you then and I don’t think it’s right now either.

  137. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Once the team actually starts throwin’ the ball around, you guys will settle down. Right now, your suffering from a form of Cabin Fever.

  138. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    “I’m sure you did. But the fact that my biggest sin at the time was to vehemently disagree with you about Posada didn’t really warrant that comment, IMO.”

    trisha-

    actually i think it was that you have always sincerely questioned that i have ever done anything in baseball at all.

    i tend to not react well to people who call me a liar :)

  139. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    I’ve got to go, but austinmac, repetition of opinion is common practice on sports boards, because the same issues persist, so they get discussed.

    Pineda hasn’t thrown a pitch as a Yankee yet, and he is going to endure a mentoring process throughout the season, whether he gets sent down or not. People are going to react to that process. Anticipating that process makes sense to me as part of the discussion here.

  140. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    When this is all we have to bicker about… things are good in Yankeeland :)

    If there is not always some polarizing issue to argue about, this and most other forums would literally not exist.

    If everyone just posted “Go Yankees” this would be an incredibly boring place. The differing opinions on things are what makes this place worth coming to and reading. How we treat each other is what ruins this place (and I will always admit I’m guilty or that, much more than I can say for some of you).

  141. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    “It’s kind of funny because all the flak randy is getting now, kind reminds me of some of the times you have experienced around here. It wasn’t right against you then and I don’t think it’s right now either.”

    tar-

    thanks, but i’m intentionally taking on the close mindedness of the blog. if the true believers weren’t coming back after me , i’d be disappointed.

  142. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    TIME OUT!

    Can we all remember that we are all Yankee fans and all want the same thing, for the team to win, but that we may have very divergent opinions in looking at how to get to the prize.

    Divergent opinions are just that.

    To be condescendingly dismissive of someone else’s opinion is really the height of both arrogance and self-delusion!

    Some of the most experienced “baseball minds” here have gotten it wrong from time to time, so let’s at least acknowledge that our opinions are just that. We all believe in what we are saying. There is no definitive right and wrong when you are voicing opinions on a forum. Respect the other person’s viewpoint – for they may indeed have it right – while at the same time feeling comfortable to put our own viewpoints forth with the knowledge that respect will be shown in return.

    It’s never a sin to disagreee. It is a sin to act like a total know-it-all jerk in the process.

  143. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Bill Maher has transformed himself into a left wing Rush Limbaugh. Maher at one time had a reputation for being unbiased. His endless diatribes on HBO have ruined that. Bob Backlund (sp) is the funniest most balanced guy around. Maher is an absolute cartoon. Make that a Very short cartoon.

  144. J. Alfred Prufrock February 19th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    I don’t care about Cashman’s private life.

    But how is it that the endless Jeter jokes about signing baseballs for women he’s slept with is acceptable forum fodder, but we have to impale ourselves against those who dare discuss Cashman’s sticky mess? Which is actually current?

    I don’t care if Jeter’s sex life is discussed, FTR. But it’s interesting what some choose to find over the line.

    Good afternoon.

  145. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    i actually think pineda could become an amazing pitcher, but i think if the yankees are planning on him learning a new pitch while trying to win games a the mlb level with the yankees, they are crazy.

    no other team is the yankees.

    the immediate pressure to win is more than the long term pressure to learn.

  146. austinmac February 19th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Randy,

    What is the closed mindedness of which you speak? I have argued for Cashman to act differently many times. So have many others.

    I presume most of us are adults. We do not need you to fix anyone else. To find joy that so many now have a poor opinion of you should not suggest you are accomplishing anything.

    I don’t remember you acting like this previously.

  147. Irreverent Discourse February 19th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    but i think if the yankees are planning on him learning a new pitch while trying to win games a the mlb level with the yankees, they are crazy.

    Because him repeating last years performance would be totally out of the question? I think that bears some explaining.

    He is going to get 2 full runs per game of support than he got in Seattle, he’s going to win plenty of games.

  148. Bret The Hitman February 19th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Pineda knows how to throw a third pitch. He just has to refine it. Let’s not be melodramatic about it.

  149. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    randy – I do believe you have done some things in baseball. I have no idea whether you’ve done all the things you’ve professed to do. Maybe you have.

    But it still doesn’t mean that you take is always the right one, and I get the feeling that you definitively feel that way. Someone may disagree with your take and end up having it right.

    That’s all.

    **********

    Tar – when I was battered about from time-to-time, it wasn’t from being nasty to people. More often than not it was because I expressed what may have been an unpopular opinion and stuck to my guns. I took lots of heat for that. My opinions were not terribly controversial, as I remember, just different. In retrospect, they weren’t always wrong, as you know.

    My objection is to the nastiness I see thrown back and forth on this board and the lack of respect shown to posters who may have differing opinions. I just don’t see the need for that.

  150. Duh Innings February 19th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Too bad Toronto would most likely not trade Rasmus to a division rival (the Yanks) although Rasmus had a pretty bad finish last season (.173 BA with Toronto) so who knows???

    DH aside, I am thrilled about the Yanks right now. 4/5ths set rotation. Hughes vs. Garcia will be good as it’ll push both esp. Hughes. 6/7ths set bullpen as Hughes or Garcia will be in the pen, Cabral vs. some new guy the Yanks just signed for the second lefty job since Okajima failed his physical and of course he failed it – ‘ too busy drinking beer and pizza with Beckett et.al. LOL.) Maybe someone else wins that final spot in the pen if not either lefty. If Eric Chavez was (finally) re-signed, the bench would be 3/4ths set (Nunez/Chavez/Jones) and it’d be just Cervelli vs. Romine for the backup catcher job I think Cervelli ultimately gets so Romine could catch everyday in AAA. The starting nine is 8/9ths set. I wouldn’t be bummed out if Ibanez was signed, but I will say I think the Yanks could do better with seeing what Dickerson or maybe Branyan can do to start the season and taking it from there. DH will be shared by multiple players so I don’t see any urgency to sign Ibanez for it. Like I said a day or so ago, Dickerson’s a career .270 BA/.355 OBP hitter vs.RHP. A small sample but he’s only 29/30 years old. Or make him the fifth outfielder and go with a Round Robin DH. No guy who can’t play the field on the bench.

  151. austinmac February 19th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Trisha,

    I am heading out into a beautiful day. You expressed yourself so well I need not say anything else. Your’s is one opinion with which I completely agree.

  152. Best To Ever Do It February 19th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Jackson February 19th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Erik Boland @eboland11

    Cashman said regardless of speculation, Pineda not likely to be slotted as No. 2 starter. has only two pitches; needs to work on changeup

    ——————

    So they traded their best chip for what exactly?

  153. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    austinmac – have a wonderful day!

    :)

  154. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “To find joy that so many now have a poor opinion of you should not suggest you are accomplishing anything.”

    austin mac-

    for some reason , the montero/pineda trade has polarized the blog.

    almost everyone had the opinion it was done and everyone should move on.

    what it represented to me was that the gm had demonstrated that he needed to be removed. i had given cashman a pass since 2009, but trading away montero was a cardinal sin in my eyes.

    i am pointing out why cashman is a major problem for the yankees. he really needs to be replaced. it’s really that simple.

  155. Your Worst Nightmare February 19th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Do you people actually read what you post ? Pissin and moanin about who says what, unreal.

  156. DONNYBROOK February 19th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    CC takes Pineda under his wing, and the guy will be fine. All Pineda has to realize is NOW it comes down to him replacing AJ in the rotation. With just 2 pitches, Pineda]as a Yankee, can already achieve More than AJ did in his best season with the Yanks, not to mention last season.Pineda can learn the change-up in his own time. Now, later….. whenever. The Yankees are already better from a pitching standpoint than they were last season. There should be NO pressure on Pineda to learn anything immediately, and CC will express this sentiment to the young Pineda. CC has been there.

  157. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Do you people actually read what you post ? Pissin and moanin about who says what, unreal.”

    Actually I think it’s more “pissin and moanin” about lack of civility on the forum.

  158. randy l. February 19th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    “randy – I do believe you have done some things in baseball. I have no idea whether you’ve done all the things you’ve professed to do. Maybe you have”

    trisha-

    i don’t question that you went to law school because of the way you talk about it.
    anyone who’s actually been around the game can tell if i’m being real or not. the ones that can’t tell are saying more about themselves than they are about me.

  159. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 19th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    randy – okay. That’s fair enough. But it’s okay for people to disagree with you without being made to feel that they definitely have it wrong. Sometimes they may not, despite your background and knowledge.

  160. Crawdaddy February 19th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    “i am pointing out why cashman is a major problem for the yankees. he really needs to be replaced. it’s really that simple.”

    We wouldn’t have known that with you being the shy type not expressing that opinion.

  161. 108 stitches February 19th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    2012 is a contract year for Swisher. If he doesn’t live up to expectations and the Yankees let him walk VIA free agency, B.J. Upton should be a consideration. He plays a virtually flawless CF and Granderson could move over to RF. K-Long would work to correct any of Upton’s hitting flaws.
    Jeter is his idol which is why he wears No. 2 with the TB Rays. Assign him No. 12.
    Cost ? About the same as Swisher would.

  162. blake February 19th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    “So they traded their best chip for what exactly?”

    a guy with legit #1 upside….a term that’s thrown around a lot but there are very few guys who actually qualify.

  163. MaineYankee February 19th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    randy

    I’ve shoveled alot of what you’re slinging. :D:

    I guess you had something stronger than those fries in the Old Port last night.

  164. bardos February 19th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    In my personal opinion, one of the facets of managerial selection of a relief pitcher for any given game is the choice of reliever who most contrasts with what the opposing team has been seeing all day in regards to types of pitches.

    That is to say, having Freddy the junkballer (the reincarnation of Eddie Lopat) ready to relieve one of the fireballer starters like CC or Pineda would have him facing a line-up totally off-balance. So Freddy out of the bullpen works for me.

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