The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Numbers!

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 20, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

People ask for them every year, so here are the current uniform numbers assigned to the Yankees for spring training.

40 MAN ROSTER

Pitchers
71 Dellin Betances
76 Cesar Cabral
62 Joba Chamberlain
31 Pedro Feliciano
36 Freddy Garcia
65 Phil Hughes
70 George Kontos
18 Hiroki Kuroda
48 Boone Logan
77 Brad Meyers
78 D.J. Mitchell
47 Ivan Nova
79 David Phelps
35 Michael Pineda
42 Mariano Rivera
30 Dave Robertson
52 CC Sabathia
29 Rafael Soriano
53 Cory Wade

Catchers
17 Francisco Cervelli
55 Russell Martin
72 Austin Romine

Infielders
80 David Adams
24 Robinson Cano
2 Derek Jeter
82 Corban Joseph
68 Brandon Laird
26 Eduardo Nunez
19 Ramiro Pena
13 Alex Rodriguez
25 Mark Teixeira

Outfielders
83 Zoilo Almonte
41 Chris Dickerson
11 Brett Gardner
14 Curtis Granderson
22 Andruw Jones
64 Justin Maxwell
81 Melky Mesa
33 Nick Swisher

NON-ROSTER INVITEES

Pitchers
85 Manny Banuelos
92 Dan Burawa
97 Juan Cedeno
61 Matt Daley
43 Manny Delcarmen
93 Brett Marshall
84 Adam Miller
63 Mike O’Connor
94 Ryan Pope
39 Clay Rapada
95 Graham Stoneburner
86 Adam Warren
75 Kevin Whelan
96 Chase Whitley

Catchers
87 Jose Gil
89 Kyle Higashioka
66 Gustavo Molina
88 J.R. Murphy
90 Gary Sanchez

Infielders
74 Doug Bernier
45 Russell Branyan
40 Bill Hall
60 Jayson Nix
91 Jorge Vazquez

Outfielders
67 Colin Curtis
73 Cole Garner
38 Dewayne Wise

Associated Press photos
By the way, that’s gotta be the coolest Matt Daley picture ever taken, right?

 
 

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88 Responses to “Numbers!”

  1. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    The D’antoni system sucks. No defense whatsoever.

  2. LGY February 20th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    The D’antoni system sucks. No defense whatsoever

    ——-

    Except the Knicks are one of the best defensive teams in the NBA this year???

  3. willwill February 20th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    So what’s the deal with #6 or #21 either reissue them or retire them.

  4. Nick in SF February 20th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    “66 Gustavo Molina”

    :mad:

  5. GreenBeret7 February 20th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    Trminds me of the old Coke commercial with Mean Joe Greene and the Kid walking down the tunnel after a game. Kid offers Joe his Coke and Joe tosses him the game jersey.

  6. jacksquat February 20th, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    How do Cervelli and Pena get numbers like 17 and 19? And Gardner 11.

    At this point numbers below 30 should be reserved for veterans and projected stars.

  7. Bret The Hitman February 20th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    This Knicks team is deep. They will wear out opponents with their depth and take over in the 4th quarter. They’re out of sync now but they have the right ingredients. Depth. Talent. Just need to get in the flow as a unit and work on chemistry.

  8. kd February 20th, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    6 gets retires when torre goes into the hall

    21 when the steinbrenner brothers decide that it’s time. a few more years

  9. mick February 20th, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    what no # for okajima?

  10. GreenBeret7 February 20th, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    If they can issue Mussina’s number, they can issue O’Neill’s number.

  11. mick February 20th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    the fans LOVED O’Neill.
    Not as much Mussina.

  12. UpState February 20th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    AJ wasn’t ‘ripping’ the Yankees…

    This Ed Valentine guy is supposed to be such a big Yankee Fan ???

    I guess he accomplished his goal of attracting attention to himself…..however questionable…

    Wonder how he ‘reports’ on his beloved NY Giants” ?

  13. Nilsson February 20th, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    They missed Shumpert tonight. He’s usually the designated shutdown defender on scoring guards. Knicks got lots of work ahead to place the pieces together, hopefully for a nice postseason run.

    That’s a nice pic of Betances.

  14. mick February 20th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    okajima failed physical for the masses who are concerned.

  15. LGY February 20th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    amare game is pick and roll. that’s it. he’s one dimensional. nash made him. lin would too. he has terrible hands and cant shoot. but he fits better in a point oriented offense.

    ———

    He was a very good mid range shooter last year. Very good.

  16. Against All Odds February 20th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    LGY February 20th, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    The D’antoni system sucks. No defense whatsoever

    ——-

    Except the Knicks are one of the best defensive teams in the NBA this year?

    ————

    Yep they are 6th or 8th in defensive efficiency. I know that’s a surprise to some ppl LGY

  17. versonine February 20th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    The Knicks’ successful defense has nothing to do with D’Antoni. They brought in a 2nd coach this year, a defensive specialist, Coach Woodson. The success has everything to do with Woodson and Chandler and nothing to do with _’Antoni.

  18. UtilityManSojo February 20th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    #35 Was actually issued to Neal Cotts last Feb…but he was cut like the first day for a failed physical.
    Okajima never got a uniform….cut on Friday.
    #6 should be reissued…Thanks…but thats long enough!

  19. versonine February 20th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    Lin didnt handle the ball as much tonight as in our previous 8 wins. That’s the reason why we lost. You can live with his 6+ turnovers a game because every aspect of his game is promising. He’ll eventually grow out of the turnovers.

  20. UtilityManSojo February 20th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Pena has had #19 since 2009
    Cervelli gave up #29 last winter for Soriano…and took #17.

  21. LGY February 20th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    The Knicks’ successful defense has nothing to do with D’Antoni. They brought in a 2nd coach this year, a defensive specialist, Coach Woodson. The success has everything to do with Woodson and Chandler and nothing to do with _’Antoni.

    ——————-

    He’s the head coach. You can’t just take away all the credit from him. D’antoni has never been giving the pieces to run a good defense. The players matter way more than the coach.

    The guy has had Amare Stoudemire as his C for the vast majority of his career and he’s one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Quite possibly the worst among forwards/centers.

  22. LGY February 20th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Also, I have no idea where this notion came from that Mike Woodson is a defensive specialist.

    He drove Atlanta Hawks fans insane with his switch on absolutely everything defensive schemes.

  23. versonine February 20th, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    This team has 2 coaches. One for offense and one for defense. ‘Antoni and Woodson.

    Players matter, but defense can be taught. To any player. Including Stoudemire. It’s communication. It’s a commitment. A state of mind.

    Anyway, no Shumpert and barely any Chandler tonight, along with Lin not handling the ball, and it’s a loss against a very bad team.

  24. Against All Odds February 20th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    LGY February 20th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    The Knicks’ successful defense has nothing to do with D’Antoni. They brought in a 2nd coach this year, a defensive specialist, Coach Woodson. The success has everything to do with Woodson and Chandler and nothing to do with _’Antoni.

    ——————-

    He’s the head coach. You can’t just take awayall the credit from him.

    ———————-

    Exactly I mean Belichick was the defensive coach on the Giants but that doesn’t take away from Parcells.

  25. versonine February 20th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Different sports AAO.

    Woodson had a top 10 defense in his final 3 years in Atlanta. It was also reported by various media outlets on various occasions that Woodson was being brought in for his defensive coaching.

  26. Against All Odds February 20th, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    I understand but at the same time we can’t take it away from Mike. When the Celtics acquired Garnett yrs ago they brought in Thibodeau a month later to run the defense.

  27. versonine February 20th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    The reason why Belichick is so successful is because he values versatility and he coaches like it is a video game. He is not afraid to fail, he does not coach for job security, mainly because he does not have to worry about job security, he coaches to win and not to avoid losing. He makes the tough calls that other coaches are inclined to not make.

  28. LGY February 20th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    Woodson had a top 10 defense in his final 3 years in Atlanta.

    ————————–

    Based on what statistics?

  29. versonine February 20th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Based on defensive efficiency statistics.

  30. LGY February 20th, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    Based on defensive efficiency statistics

    ——–

    And Atlanta was top 10? Going to have to ask for a link here, because I don’t believe that’s the case.

  31. 108 stitches February 21st, 2012 at 2:31 am

    Are those in the Yankee hierarchy afraid to issue No. 21 so as not to offend a fragile Paul O’Neill ?
    Tino Martinez did just as much as a contributor toward the Yankees march of championships from 1996 – 2000 and No. 24 wasn’t retired. Robby Cano is proud to wear No. 24.

  32. UnKnown February 21st, 2012 at 2:40 am

    Did anyone ask Joe today about Cashman’s comments referencing tanking the division in 2010? I mean it was obvious but considering how Girardi was denying it, I think it would be interesting to hear him answer that.

    Oh by the way this Yankee team is going to be a force this year. Great starting rotation and a well than above average Offense. Can’t Wait!

  33. GreenBeret7 February 21st, 2012 at 4:56 am

    Frankie Piliere and Scoutingbaseball.com’s 2012 top 100 amateur draft roster.

    http://sbb.scout.com/2/1160365…..Og.twitter

  34. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 7:13 am

    GB-

    That link does not work.

  35. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 7:21 am

    who cares about spring training #’s anyway. if they gave someone #3 or #7 for ST would it offend the gods or something? if the yankees are going to retire #’s 21, 24, 2, 42, 51, 20, 35 and maybe 23, they there won’t be enough #’s left for ST unless you to to 3 didgits.

  36. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 7:35 am

    i forgot they already retired 23. as much as i loved listening to phil $%#@ up the yankees broadcasts, i really can’t believe they retired his # 10, btw…

  37. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 7:39 am

    mtu-

    last night watched the sept 3rd game that pineda pitched last september against the a’s.

    i highly recommend anyone being interested in pineda watching him for a whole start and to use their own eyes in judging him as a pitcher.

    he wasn’t hit hard, but 97mph isn’t something i saw last night at all. more like 94-95. maybe a slow gun. pineda is very limited in what he does. he throws the ball hard with pretty good command. his slider is tough to hit, but a lot of the strikes are swinging strikes that are out of the zone.

    pineda may have trouble with high pitch counts once hitters stop swinging at these out of zone pitches . this was one of joba’s problems. speaking of joba, i don’t really see pineda as a better pitcher than joba when joba was a starter and on his game.

    pineda doesn’t have a lot of sophistication pitching. he throws hard. then he throws a wrinkle up there. one wrinkle. a slider. he did throw a few change ups . nothing special on movement. just simply a slower pitch for hitters looking for the hard to hit fastball.

    at this point he’s a thrower with command. he’d probably be a very good closer. because of his falling off to the left in a very unbalanced way, i don’t expect a long career without injury for pineda. he uses a lot of arm to throw and if an injury occurs twhere he lost velocity he’d have trouble just like joba has.

    he doesn’t look like a complete pitcher to me who is going to develop a lot of pitches. at times he remind me of jose contreras, but not totally. he throws a heavy fastball like contreras did. he’s a big guy who i don’t see developing touch.

    if used right could obviously be very valuable to a team, but right now his biggest asset is his velocity and command of that velocity. i don’t see the creativity that a sabathia pitches with. i’d bring pineda along very slowly. just like with joba, pushing him too soon will just muck up the process.

    like joba, pineda will have some success starting, but how long this continues is the question. i see him being thrown into the fire too soon by seattle and the yankees and don’t expect him to develop into a fully developed starter. i expect because of rushing him he’ll eventually end up in the bullpen where he may be very good as joba is.

  38. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 7:50 am

    I just checked Brooks Baseball’s Pitch Fx’s for the 9/3 game that randy referenced, and his 5/27 game v. the NYY.

    On 9/3 his avg four seam velo was 93.57, max was 96.1
    On 5/27 his avg four seam velo was 95.30, max was 97.9

    I don’t think that drop is too unusual for a kid his age in his first ML season.

    btw on 9/3 he threw 9 changeups. On 5/27 he threw 1.

  39. blake February 21st, 2012 at 7:51 am

    If Pineda stays the way he was last year then the trade wont be what the Yankees wanted…..but they made it because they hope he develops further.

    Randy you’re assuming that the 22 year old tired pitcher you saw in that September game is going to remain the same……and not improve, not refine his delivery, not improve his CU…..

    We have to remember this guy is 6’8″….he’s a monster physically so its unusual that his delivery isn’t stremlined at this point….however that makes his command even more impressive to me. The Yankees probably envision a durable huge guy like CC

    Nobody knows the future…..and you coukd well be right…..but at this point I see no reason to suggest that a guy his age that already can do what he can wont get any better…..let’s just watch and find out.

  40. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 7:52 am

    Randy-

    Thanks for the observations.

    It probably would be better for a young pitcher to learn a 3rd pitch at MiLB level away from the pressure and the big lights.

    I just don’t see the Yankees doing it that way right now.

    Perhaps they believe Pineda is a quick study and will be able to refine his CU over the course of the spring.

    Joba had electric stuff and was a 4 pitch pitcher. Problem was that he could not stay healthy.

    He has an injury history that dates all the way back to college.

    I think the way the Yankees handled him did not help either.

    He must have an unbelievably high pain tolerance because he was pitching with the TJ injury.

    Don’t know how the heck he did that.

  41. blake February 21st, 2012 at 7:54 am

    *it’s not unusual*

  42. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 7:57 am

    randy you’ve been campaigning against pineda for weeks, do you really think you have any objectivity to watch the guy pitch and not pick out exactly what supports the conclusions you’ve been incessently pushing on this board day after day?

    and Suprise! you came away with the exact same conclusion you’ve had since your boy was traded. you really need to get over your mancrush on montero.

  43. blake February 21st, 2012 at 7:57 am

    I believe that if the Yankees did send Pineda down to work on his CU as Randy suggests then they would get an extra year of control if they kept him down for the right period of time…..that’s a better reason to do it for me if that’s true….

  44. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Without singling Pineda out, if Hughes is as buffed as some reports have it, and it translates into ML success this season, if I was the Yankees, I would have every player who is not in incredible shape already go through the same or a similar program.

  45. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 7:59 am

    Rich-

    I have always been in favor of something like that but you can’t mandate it.

    It has to be voluntary.

    API has programs specifically tailored to the needs of Pitchers.

  46. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:01 am

    I don’t think randy is any more or less objective than anyone else. Like most of us, some issues get a little more personal for him, but he has more hands on baseball experience at a higher level than most of us, so I value his opinion (except about Cashman’s social life ;) ), even if I don’t often always agree with it.

  47. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 8:02 am

    rich in nj-

    i didn’t have an unfavorable reaction to pineda.

    i just wasn’t wowed. the a’s announcers were clearly impressed because of other games they had seen him pitch against the a’s. the kid is has talent, but he’s pitching on talent right now.

    he has a very limited game right now. i’m sure he could add to what he does with time . joba and hughes have both found new york a difficult place to develop consistently. i think pineda will probably have the same problems with success at times and then setbacks because of inconsistent development.

    hughes himself rolled out an 18 win season. the problem is sustaining success. the question to me is whether the yankees are giving pineda the best chance at sustained success. i think they would give him the best chance for this if they let him develop at scranton to start the season .

    i think he should work on the change up and also a two seam fastball and learn how to use four pitchers to become a pitcher rather than just have a talented arm which is where he’s at now.

  48. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:02 am

    MTU

    There are always ways to motivate people to think your idea is their idea. :D

  49. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 8:04 am

    reading your review of pineda’s outing you’d have to conclude that the guy has no chance whasoever of being a starter in the majors. you have not one good thing to say about him except that he could be a closer. every single observation is negative.

    nobody, and i mean nobody has anything like the negative view you have of his pitching, not even close. you didn’t find one single good thing he did. nice objective review…

  50. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 8:06 am

    Blake-

    Why not see how he does first ?

    He is purposely being slotted further down in the rotation to reduce some of the pressure on him.

    I’m hoping he has exceptional aptitude and will at least produce a serviceable 3rd pitch without the need to send him down.

    By the way, that 3rd pitch could be a CU, a 2 seamer, or even a split.

    I think he should learn the one(s) which come to him more naturally and easily at this point.

    All he really needs is a different look to keep hitters honest.

  51. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:06 am

    randy

    Again, I appreciate your opinion. And you’re right, players have to make adjustments as hitters adjust to them. That’s why a third pitch becomes more important going forward.

    I would like to hear what you think of a game that he pitched earlier in the season, when perhaps he wasn’t a little worn out from extending himself.

    That’s why I posted the stats from a earlier appearance.

  52. Baseball Mogul February 21st, 2012 at 8:12 am

    “joba and hughes have both found new york a difficult place to develop consistently. i think pineda will probably have the same problems with success at times and then setbacks because of inconsistent development.”

    —————————–

    Some of this is certainly due to expectations and the way the Yankees handled the two. Tempering what should be expected from Pineda at the outset (by Cashman’s comments) and not having innings limits or ‘rules’ should I help his development. Hopefully the Yankees have lived & learned.

  53. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 8:12 am

    OK Rich. Whatever works.

    Randy-

    I don’t see how anyone could argue against the idea of any of our talented young guys becoming Pitchers rather than throwers.

    Pitching, at the highest level, has a component of Art to it in that it is a creative process.

    And it generally takes a palette of more than 2 colors to create a beautiful canvass consistently.

    So yes, I would agree with you I hope all of our guys learn to be Pitchers rather than just throwers.

    It will also serve them well as they age.

  54. pat February 21st, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Apologies if this has been posted before…… Video of Phil working out at API and talking about the experience.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzD4_YoXILs

  55. jacksquat February 21st, 2012 at 8:18 am

    lol, Russell Martin says Pineda has a good changeup, and that he corrects himself if he gets on the side of it, but randy still says he should go to the minors…

    Sometimes you should just admit you are wrong and move on.

  56. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Pineda only pitched 62.1 innings at AAA. He probably would have benefited from more. He’s a work in progress with electric stuff. Let’s hope he stays healthy.

  57. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 8:18 am

    rich in nj , mtu, and blake-

    i think the biggest problem right now on the blog with pineda is that people really don’t know what he looks like pitching. everyone will once the games start. until i sat through a game of his ,i was going on fleeting video impressions. and as i watch him more, i ‘ll get to know him better too.

    right now we know joba and hughes. so arguments aren’t so much over what we all see. pineda is really a mystery man to most people here on the blog. i’m not going to take anyone seriously about pineda if they really haven’t watched him.

    so far, i don’t see a potential ace. i don’t see anything there that suggest developing a range of pitches like sabathia has. now that could happen. i can’t say it won’t, but perhaps the real discussion is not joba, hughes , or pineda, but rather the way the yankees seems to always rush these guys and hope for the best with a low probability approach.

    they are going slow with manny and betances. why the rush with hughes, joba, and now pineda. if you notice nova did just fine by being left down in the minors until he was pushing 24. at 25 he’s ready to begin. you get the feeling nova can pitch. those extra few years in the minors are huge.

    i will say the yankees are doing just fine in setting up hughes,, joba, wang, and now pineda financially for life. they don’t make these kids poor by rushing them. they get to some good arbitration years pretty quickly.

    i’m not sure that seeing hughes early at 21 -22 is as good as having him cheap at 24-25.
    one thing the rays do is get their young pitchers cheaper at an older age. the yankees might want to think about that where they don’t seem to like even playing a dh more than a few million now.

  58. blake February 21st, 2012 at 8:21 am

    MTU,

    I can’t remember the rule….but if they coukd send him down for like a month to refine his CU and also get an extra year if control then id like that.

  59. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 8:26 am

    Blake-

    With the depth the Yankees have they have all kinds of options open to them.

    Adjustments can be made as the season progresses.

  60. blake February 21st, 2012 at 8:28 am

    Randy,

    I get your point there…..and as I mentioned the other day I think the Yankees have shifted their thinking a little with regards to his they bring pitchers along…….

    I don’t think they would have thrown Hughes into the fire now the way they did then….and I think they would have handled Joba differently as well if he were coming along now…..so we will just have to see.

    With Pineda ……I think its too late to go back unless its just for a short period to gain the extra year …..he already had a successful big league season and he’s already gotten his inninins where they need to be.

    Im really excitedly to see Hughes throw this spring……he’s a huge x factor for this team…..with the additions of Kuroda and Pineda……if Hughes starts to fulfill his potential the Yanks coukd legitimately have one of the top 5 rotations in baseball ….

  61. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 8:28 am

    blake-

    i’ve argued in the past that i like 24-25 year olds a lot more than i like 21-22 year olds as starters.

    why not simply delay starters so that the 6 control years are say 24-29 instead of 21-26 ?

    i don’t see the downside of going slower with these kids.

    i see a lot of upside to developing more mature pitchers.

  62. blake February 21st, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Hughes does look very fit from the pictures I’ve seen so far…….if he’s right he coukd create some serious mismatches pitching out of the 5 spot.

  63. Erin February 21st, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Gossip Break: http://tiny.cc/zrr3o

  64. pat February 21st, 2012 at 8:33 am

    Russell Martin works out with Ethier and Pedroia at the compound in AZ. Quite the set up.

    http://www.weei.com/sports/bos.....in-pedroia

  65. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 8:33 am

    randy-

    One thing you will have to admit.

    It is relatively rare for a guy Pineda’s size to be able to repeat his delivery so well leading to excellent command.

    By the way, I also understood what you meant by comparing Pineda and Joba’s sliders.

    They are both plus pitches. In Joba’s case he fell a little too in love with his at times.

    He’d just keep throwing it and throwing it. I think our catchers kept trying to get him to be more flexible about it’s use but he was very stubborn about it.

    It was his go to pitch even though it did not need to be. He had a terrific arsenal. Including a serviceable CU.

  66. blake February 21st, 2012 at 8:35 am

    “why not simply delay starters so that the 6 control years are say 24-29 instead of 21-26 ?”

    This is what Tampa does with their players…..they want prime years because they generally only get 6 years of their players so they need the best 6 they can get. They do it for that reason and because they can’t afford guys to not be ready when they hit the big leagues….if they are to keep up with NY and Boston they have to perform immediately.

    The difference with the Yankees is that they can afford to re-sign players after those 6 years if they choose to…..so they can get production from 22-28…..then pay more and keep the player if they want.

    So I agree …..that id rather be patient and make sure kids are ready…..but its not totally apples to allies with the Rays…….that said……the new CBA may change that somewhat

  67. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 8:38 am

    “Im really excitedly to see Hughes throw this spring”

    blake-

    what sticks in my mind with hughes was when he had the 93 mph fastball with natural movement that batters seemed to miss. he commanded this pitch really well and could build his game off off it.

    for some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to get in a groove with this pitch and stay there. the problem with hughes is hat he started so young hell be approaching free agency or his expensive years quickly. the yankees have really gotten great value out of him.

    i agree that it’s probably too late with pineda to slow him down and do it right . it’s juts not in the present yankee dna to err on the cautious side with a guy like pineda. hopefully pineda is the last guy the yankees rush as manny and betances are brought along slowly.

    in a way pineda is being sacrificed for manny and betances being developed the right way. if he doesn’t mind i guess i shouldn’t. it’s his life and his career. what pineda really needs is a good agent to look after his career from his point of view.

  68. blake February 21st, 2012 at 8:39 am

    Joel Sherman Joelsherman1

    @

    Column nyp.st/yRAUCd Signs are that this is last yr for Mo Rivera Yankees

    :(

  69. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 8:39 am

    should have read , ” the yankees haven’t really gotten great value out of him.”

  70. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:42 am

    The thing that sticks in my mind about Hughes in the mL was that he pitched down in the zone. In the ML, even when he was good, apart from 2007, he was up.

  71. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:49 am

    randy

    If anyone sacrificed Pineda, it’s the Mariners by calling him up with so few AAA IP. I think it’s reasonable to think that he’s ML ready now, albeit a work in progress.

  72. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 8:50 am

    “One thing you will have to admit.

    It is relatively rare for a guy Pineda’s size to be able to repeat his delivery so well leading to excellent command.”

    mtu-

    i agree.

    it is rare.

    the problem is that he repeats a bad delivery the same every time.

    i see his weight being in the wrong place as he delivers the ball. his weight is leaning on the outside of his left foot which makes him fall and spin in that direction.

    here’s the problem. if a pitching coach cleans that up , pineda may lose his ability to repeat. it’s like a guy with a natural golf swing that’s a little quirky but effective. a golf coach may improve some aspect of it and totally screw the guy up.

    pineda falls off to the left. it’s like aj spinning. he gets some benefit from it but some limitations too.
    improving pitchers s risky business. everything a pitching coach changes affects everything else.
    this is another reason for slow development.

    i would seriously consider, if i were the yankee and had committed to starting him the whole year in new york , to limit teaching him too much and limiting teams like the red sox seeing him too often. i;d save him to when they really needed him.

    i’d teach him more the second year after he digested new york. in other words if , you are going to rush him, don’t try to change him too much at the same time.

  73. Villa Nova-Ya February 21st, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Randy

    Serious question.

    What player/agent is going to tell a team, no, don’t bring me up to the majors, it’s too soon?

    What player, when given the opportunity to play in the majors in any capacity, is going to choose to hone his craft in the minors? Hughes was going to be sent to AAA in 2009 and lobbied to stay in the bullpen.

    It seems to me, it’s not in a professional sports player’s DNA to slow down the trip to the major leagues.

    Other pitchers in the history of baseball have started out with a limited arsenal and a need to make adjustments, and have developed successfully at the ML level. Seems to me that it’s injuries that do the sidetracking more than anything else.

  74. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 8:53 am

    “If anyone sacrificed Pineda, it’s the Mariners by calling him up with so few AAA IP.”

    rich n nj-

    i think think seattle consciously knew they could rush pineda , get quick mlb success form him, and spin him off for a young hitter they needed.

    they knew they were spinning off an incomplete pitcher, but that wouldn’t be their problem. they’d have the young hitter they wanted. i think a smart move on their part.

  75. Shame Spencer February 21st, 2012 at 8:54 am

    I love how this turns into a Knicks blog until they start to lose and the posts suddenly cut off… wake me up when they stop being mediocre ;)

    Re: Pineda – He’s in camp now… we should be getting some answers to the questions surrounding him soon enough. I think CC will be an asset. Can’t hurt to have another big guy in the rotation to give you pointers.

  76. Villa Nova-Ya February 21st, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Not only that, but I thought I read that the Yankees probably will not be using Pineda in the number 2 slot behind CC, so it seems to me, that they are not in fact rushing him; and it also seems to me that the Yankees appear somewhat tempered in their assessment of Pineda. They seem excited, yet realistic. This sounds to me like a team that sees a high upside and is excited by it, but know that it’s not quite there yet.

    Pineda had success last season that can be built upon.

    However, I realize I look at most things glass half full and not everyone shares that outlook.

  77. Villa Nova-Ya February 21st, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Back into hibernation for me.

    Now we’ve got the Mariners “duping” the Yankees scenario.

    Sheesh.

  78. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:58 am

    I’m often reluctant to posts too much Knicks here because I think some people probably don’t like it.

    I suspected that the Knicks would struggle in Melo’s first game back. They have a lot of pieces right now, and it will be tough to allocate PT and find combinations that work; they really haven’t practiced together. Also, not having Shumpert’s defense last night cost them with DWill. There is one thing that continues to frustrate me with them. Box out! Is it so hard to put a body on a man?

  79. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Rich-

    If I understand him correctly it seems like Randy’s argument centers on the approach they Yankees have taken with their young Pitchers in general up to this point.

    That perhaps they were rushed and mishandled a bit in the process ,and that they would profit from more development time at the MiLB level.

    They did that with Nova, and they seem to be doing that with Banuelos and Betances but that is a
    departure from their previous M.O.

    Randy is saying that Pineda could use some more MiLB time and should also be brought along a little more slowly.

    From his perspective there is added risk in having Pineda be forced to learn additional pitches at the ML level.

    I am a little more circumspect about it. I think adjustments can be made as they go along.

    I do not see it quite as much as an either/or situation in the way Randy does.

    His arguments do have some merit IMO.

  80. Rich in NJ February 21st, 2012 at 8:59 am

    randy

    That’s too ninja for me.

  81. blake February 21st, 2012 at 8:59 am

    “here’s the problem. if a pitching coach cleans that up , pineda may lose his ability to repeat. it’s like a guy with a natural golf swing that’s a little quirky but effective. a golf coach may improve some aspect of it and totally screw the guy up.”

    There is some.validity to this.

    However I believe what is a good delivery and what’s not is somewhat subjective…..personally to me the two most important aspects of a guys delivery are 1) can he repeat it 2) can he do it without hurting himself?

    I think those two things are different for every pitcher……..Mariano has the most textbook and perfect delivery maybe of all time…..but not everyone can do that and there have been many other pitchers with worse mechanics who are successful.

  82. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 9:04 am

    villa nova ya

    “What player/agent is going to tell a team, no, don’t bring me up to the majors, it’s too soon?”

    i agree that doesn’t happen, but a strong agent or family will make an organization realize that the player has his own self interest too.

    using wang for example, wang just let the yankees tell him what to do. he was too coachable and too respectful of the yankees. he should have went outside the organization on how to proceed with his career.

    it’s not unusual for players like lincecum to have strong outside influence guiding them. i think pineda could use that. there is no doubt h’s being fast tracked both at seattle and now new york.
    he’s very malleable from the yankees point of view. they can do what they want with him.

    i don’t think they are worried about 5 years from now with him. in effect ,i think he’s kind of a bridge in their mind to manny and betances. i think they plan to use him up and move on. if he survives the process great, if he doesn’t , like wang, no big deal .

  83. Shame Spencer February 21st, 2012 at 9:04 am

    Rich – Don’t mind the posts at all. If more people talked hockey in here I’d be responsible for taking this blog on other tangents as well.

    I just… don’t think the Knicks are very good. Or maybe I should put it differently: I don’t think they’re the disaster they used to be but I don’t think they have a chance in hell of sniffing a title this season. Its nice to see the fanbase excited, however.

  84. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 9:05 am

    @ Rich yes it’s going to be a while until they can make the pieces work especially in a short season.

  85. Crawdaddy February 21st, 2012 at 9:09 am

    “That’s too ninja for me.”

    Ya think?

  86. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 9:12 am

    Randy-

    That would be incredibly stupid if that was the Yankee’s thinking.

    If anything I would think they would want to protect their investment in Pineda

    After all they traded away their #1 prospect to get him.

    What you are saying just doesn’t make any sense to me.

  87. MTU February 21st, 2012 at 9:12 am

    new thread —->

  88. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 10:11 am

    melo was terrible last night, couldn’t find his place in the flow, couldn’t hit a shot and obviously wasn’t feeling it. the knicks stopped rebounding in the second half. the net’s shot lights-out from 3 point land after the first 5 minutes and dwil was awesome.

    i dont think you can take too much away from that game, the knicks were all trying to feel their way, there were new players being fit in or back in and there was an intensity drop-off after the big win sunday.


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