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Pineda makes a strong first impression in Yankees camp

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 20, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

One-by-one, the pitchers in this morning’s first bullpen group began wrapping up. CC Sabathia was the first to finish, and after his final pitch, the Yankees ace gave Francisco Cervelli a familiar handshake.

But there was something different about the way Michael Pineda finished.

It was Russell Martin’s first time catching the new Yankees right-hander, and after Pineda’s final pitch, Martin offered an enthusiastic fist bump, followed by an animated discussion that — even from a distance — was clearly all about the movement on Pineda’s pitches.

“He looked pretty happy about it, too,” Martin said. “You could tell he’s been working on the changeup. Larry (Rothschild) was saying that he’s changed the grip a little bit, and it’s working. We’ll see how hitters react to it, but from my perspective, it looked like a pretty good pitch. His slider is a plus slider. Everybody knows he’s got a live arm.”

Joe Girardi watched the session from the back of the bullpen.

“You’ve got another guy that’s 6-8 out there, and obviously he’s got a very good arm,” Girardi said. “I saw a couple of his sliders today and I was like, wow. For this time of the spring it’s pretty good.”

So far, the Yankees seem impressed by their new trade acquisition. Truth be told, it seems Martin didn’t have particularly high expectations coming into this morning’s bullpen. Afterward, in the clubhouse, the Yankees catcher was raving about what he’d seen.

“We had a short sample (last season),” Martin said. “We just saw him one game. He was a little erratic that game and got himself in trouble walking guys, so I was expecting to see a guy that didn’t have great command. I was wrong. He was commanding his fastball down in the zone. Joe gave me a call this offseason and said, ‘We’ve got to get this guy to work on his changeup,’ and obviously he has worked on his changeup because what I saw was a good changeup.

“The first couple, he was on the side of them, which means they were kind of tailing. Movement on a pitch is a good thing, but it’s kind of hard to control. When he was staying on top of the ball, down and through it and throwing it off the same plane as the fastball, that’s what gives deception to the hitter. He was able to, after throwing a couple the wrong way, he made an adjustment right away and was keeping it down in the zone and on the same plane. The guy is a quick learner and he’s able to make adjustments on the mound. That’s pretty impressive for a young guy.”

Associated Press photo

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158 Responses to “Pineda makes a strong first impression in Yankees camp”

  1. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Changing the grip on his changeup already? I thought he would never learn :x

  2. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Now, if only he’d teach that grip to Hughes.

  3. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Looks like things are ahead of schedule… fantastic.

    Sometimes changing that grip is all it takes. That’s how Mo “found” his cutter.

    He didn’t spend years in AAA developing it, that’s for certain.

  4. Ys Guy February 20th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    wow, really a shame that he’ll never be able to learn how to throw the change…

  5. Pat M. February 20th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    I love this trade

  6. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Seems like Rothschild suggested it. This isn’t fair. I was promised Pineda would be unable to learn things :x

    MLB taking over control of the MLB radio network is awesome, now they are throwing up interviews online so you can listen again.

    http://siriusxmsports.posterou.....ger-joined

  7. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    How are the Yankees out of the bidding on Hamels or Cain? If those guys even hit the market, that is….they have ten million off the books with Kuroda, another potential 20 off with Soriano and Swisher, 14 off with Mo if he retires (sniff).

  8. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    I’m not sure why Martin would think Pineda’s command would be a problem off of one game.

  9. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Someone remind me when and where Andy Pettitte learned the cutter?

    Was it at the big-league level?

  10. Ys Guy February 20th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    i love this trade, too, i dont know if you were kidding or not. to me it seemed obvious from last ST that he wasn’t going to catch for the yankees and that it was only a matter of time. nothing against jesus, but there’s no room on this team over the next 5 years for a f/t dh. i can’t wait to see what pineda’s going to do for us!

  11. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    rich in NJ – Perception is reality to… well… everyone. If they players weren’t impressed with his command during that game, they surely discussed it that night too… and that becomes the “Martin’s perception” of that player until it is changed. Now it is changed :)

  12. CompassRosy February 20th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
    “Pineda has to learn how to throw his change-up BETTER, he doesn’t have to learn how to throw one.”

    ~

    Yep.

    He doesn’t, need a change, that is. His power slider IS a change.

    But he’ll get one, because a changeup isn’t that hard to throw for guys like him.

    He threw a few changeups against Oakland on Sept. 3, nine (9) changeups to be exact, and then told the press that he was delighted with his changeup and that he’d thrown a lot of them. True, the F/X data on it was good – it had sink and 9 inches of armside run.

    Then, on Sept. 10, he threw his changeup once, for a ball. That day, he threw 20 (twenty!!) swinging strikes at the Royals. He got 12 swinging strikes on 43 sliders. Doug Fister gets 12 swinging strikes on 250 anythings.

    CC Sabathia threw fastball-curve as a rookie, and FB-curve only. Then he started mixing changes in his second year, not ’cause he has to, but because he could. Anybody could, with an arm like that.

    http://tinyurl.com/7t4rstw

  13. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    How are the Yankees out of the bidding on Hamels or Cain? If those guys even hit the market, that is….they have ten million off the books with Kuroda, another potential 20 off with Soriano and Swisher, 14 off with Mo if he retires (sniff).

    They have a budget to meet: 189 , and 5 position players to fill: CF, 2B, DH, C, RF Along with 2 rotation spots, and bullpen and bench.

    Soooo it would be very difficult to say, keep Cano and Granderson while also signing 1 of Hamels/Cain.

    Hamels and Cain will be 20 million dollar pitchers, and there is a limit to a team’s number of 20 million dollar contracts. Especially if each one is like an average of 7 years long.

  14. CompassRosy February 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    sorry –
    everything after “Yep.” was supposed to be in italics to denote a quote from the linked article.

  15. Erin February 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    It’s an epidemic

    RealMichaelKay Michael Kay
    NYY GM Brian Cashman admitted to us that he invoked the name of @JLin7 when speaking to his pitchers and catchers today.

  16. Ys Guy February 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    i read two minor league scouting reports that called pineda’s change a plus pitch. obviously he didnt’ have the feel for it last year and didn’t throw it much. but i found it very surprising after the trade that so many people said he has no third pitch. maybe he does…

  17. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    ID

    I guess, although they do look at video and scouting reports, right?

    Or maybe it gets tedious talking to reporters so they just make stuff up???

  18. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Cain is not a 20 million dollar pitcher. They could surely afford one big contract, and don’t they have another team option year on Cano?

  19. Pat M. February 20th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Cole Hamels…….Think LA Dodgers in 2013

  20. Triple Short of a Cycle February 20th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    How are the Yankees out of the bidding on Hamels or Cain? If those guys even hit the market, that is….they have ten million off the books with Kuroda, another potential 20 off with Soriano and Swisher, 14 off with Mo if he retires (sniff).

    ———————————————————————-

    At least to me trading for Pineda has everything to do with keeping payroll down and not giving big money to elite pitchers. It showed this off season with their pathetic Darvish Bid. I would much rathered have gone into the season with Darvish and Montero then Pineda and no Montero.

    I know i am in the minority here but I am dreading the upcoming long term big money deal they are about to throw at Cano. Hamel or Cain’s money will go towards Cano and possibly Granderson as well

  21. Benny Blanco February 20th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    “The guy is a quick learner and he’s able to make adjustments on the mound.”

    Wow, according to Randy this kid is incapable or doesn’t have the aptitude to develop his change-up.

    :)

  22. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    randy has a good perspective on how baseball works on the human level, but I think sometimes he either exaggerates or forgets how simple an adjustment can be, and how significant of an impact it can have. Mo’s cutter is the literal perfect example of a pitcher with good control changing something as simple as how he help the ball in his hand… and it essentially changed his entire career path from a back-end starter to the greatest relief pitcher of all time.

    Defining athletic ability, as he was talking about earlier… yeah, that’s difficult.

    Adjusting or learning a slightly new pitch is not always on the same level of “athletic ability changing” events… Sometimes it can be as simple as a grip or what spot you look at with your eyes or something mental… other times it can be reworking entire mechanics of a delivery… every player is different and constantly assuming the worst for Pineda paints an obvious shade of bias.

  23. Triple Short of a Cycle February 20th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    but there’s no room on this team over the next 5 years for a f/t dh

    ————————————————————————

    Good thing the Sox and Mariners didn’t listen to that advice with their elite DH’s they have had

  24. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    If there is ever a player they should be throwing money at, it is Cano.

  25. blake February 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Stuckey,

    I was talking about the part if the quote where he Cashman said he preferred players that come up through the Yankee system….so I asked why then did he trade one?

    That said….Im really pumped about Pineda

  26. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    rich in NJ – Consider how difficult it is to keep straight everything you post on here. Then consider that like… less than 100 people read it. Multiply that by being a player for the Yankees and you can easily see how sometimes what the players and coaches and managers say isn’t all that useful.

  27. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    “i read two minor league scouting reports that called pineda’s change a plus pitch. obviously he didnt’ have the feel for it last year and didn’t throw it much. but i found it very surprising after the trade that so many people said he has no third pitch. maybe he does…”

    Right, maybe 2011 was “the backwards”.

    If I was getting a league-leading k rate on fastball/slider, I might become a little fixated on it too.

    If he has options, then he can be demoted on May 1st as easily on April 1st if necessary.

    Issuing him a one-way ticket on February 20th makes little to no sense.

    Telling a guy who spent a year enjoying ML life you’re going to Scranton no matter what you do the next 6 weeks makes little to no sense.

    This was a position arrived at in the immediate wake of an unfavored trade. I actually like saying ‘I don’t know’, but THAT I do know.

  28. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Or maybe it gets tedious talking to reporters so they just make stuff up???

    No one who tells good stories tells the truth 100% of the time. It probably felt, to Martin, that his story would have more impact if he were coming from a place of doubt only to have Pineda wow him in his first session. It feels better to overcome than to just be humdrum normal. “nothing special, we knew he had good control thats why we made this trade”. Instead Martin can gush about his command the work he did on his change.

    I’ve done the same thing before, I’m sure everyone has. Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story, we know Randy follows this rule.

  29. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    “Good thing the Sox and Mariners didn’t listen to that advice with their elite DH’s they have had”

    Also (apart from Montero), to what level of underperformance are you going to DH a player? You can’t just say, well, we’re paying A-Rod, for example, $20 whatever million, so he’s going to DH even if he can’t hit anymore.

  30. Triple Short of a Cycle February 20th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    If there is ever a player they should be throwing money at, it is Cano

    —————————————————-

    You want to throw an 8 year 20 million dollar plus deal on a guy who is over 30?

  31. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    triple – Good thing the Sox and Mariners didn’t listen to that advice with their elite DH’s they have had

    Good things those teams are so good with their elite DH’s. Seattle is pegged for just behind last place in the west, and people are writing Boston down for 3rd and 4th place in the East right now.

    Maybe they should have focused on something else? Impossible to say for certain one way or the other, no sense in getting riled up about it. Maybe they should just make the decisions they deem best for their franchise, and the Yankees should do the same?

  32. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    ID, Jerkface

    In the words of George Costanza: “It’s not a lie, if you believe it.” :D

  33. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Triple-

    Yes. He is the best pure hitter on the team and in the American League. And we may not have seen his best yet.

  34. blake February 20th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    “The guy is a quick learner and he’s able to make adjustments on the mound. That’s pretty impressive for a young guy.”

    I didn’t think this was possible ;)

  35. Triple Short of a Cycle February 20th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Good things those teams are so good with their elite DH’s. Seattle is pegged for just behind last place in the west, and people are writing Boston down for 3rd and 4th place in the East right now

    ————————————————————-

    I was talking about Ortiz and Martinez when they were in their primes. Both those teams didn’t have a problem with full time DH’s

  36. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Cain is not a 20 million dollar pitcher. They could surely afford one big contract, and don’t they have another team option year on Cano?

    Of course Cano is not a 20 mil pitcher, thats why I said there is a limit to the number of contracts not pitchers. The more 20 mil contracts you hand out when you run with a budget, the less you have to work with. Cano has 1 more option. 2013 doesnt matter. Its all about 2014. Signing Hamels and Cain affects 2014.

    2014 budget, 189, and a lot of change between now and then that needs to be addressed. Its possible they could sign Hamels or Cain, but that would mean not signing Granderson… or a Rfer or a catcher, etc.

  37. Eroc February 20th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    I find it amusing how Cashman is talking up Hughes so much while tempering expectations for Nova/Pineda.

    He’s almost setting up Hughes to fail – “he’s goin to win at least 15 games if healthy”, “he is 100% healthy and we expect him to be at the top of the rotation”, etc.

    He hasn’t talked this highly of someone since… Noesi.

  38. blake February 20th, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    Cain will get 20 million a year if he hits the market…..and he’s said recently he wasn’t giving the Giants a discount I believe.

  39. 4time February 20th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    “I find it amusing how Cashman is talking up Hughes so much while tempering expectations for Nova/Pineda.”

    even more so when you consider that all his interviews mention how Pineda only has 2 pitches and he needs to harness his 3rd pitch and there are not any frontline guys without a 3rd pitch

    I must have missed Hughes’ diverse array of pitches.

  40. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    “He hasn’t talked this highly of someone since… Noesi.”

    Bret, I believe this is your cue…

  41. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    The Yankees need to have a contingency allocation set aside in their budget to enable them to pay big bucks for an established hitter if some of the under contract, aging veterans decline too far, too fast.

  42. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Next offseason could be tricky, that is true. They will have to gauge the progress of Banuelos and Betances and Hughes performance this year and then assess whether or not they need another veteran pitcher. This will in turn affect whether or not they dump Swisher. That may then have an effect on Cano and Grandy. I would personally always err on the side of pitching.

  43. m February 20th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Nice! It’s great to see something positive written about Pineda.

    Martin agrees with AJ’s comments from today.

    Here’s a text message exchange after the trade:

    Martin: I’m going to bunt on you.”
    AJ: “LOL. I know you better than that, man.”

  44. pat February 20th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Cashman- “Phil Hughes is not a question for me. If he’s healthy he will contribute “

  45. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    ” I would personally always err on the side of pitching.”

    I would always err on the side of perceived need.
    _

    It might be more entertaining to see Posada bunt on AJ…

  46. yanks 27 February 20th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    RealMichaelKay
    NYY GM Brian Cashman admitted to us that he invoked the name of @JLin7 when speaking to his pitchers and catchers today.

  47. Nick in SF February 20th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    “Cain will get 20 million a year if he hits the market…..and he’s said recently he wasn’t giving the Giants a discount I believe.”

    Can you source that? The last thing I read on this subject had suggested that Cain is more likely to take slightly less to stay in SF long term than is Lincecum. I posted quotes and a link on here about it.

  48. LGY February 20th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    If Phil Hughes is not a question then why did he sign Garcia, KURODA, and trade Montero for Pineda?

  49. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Next offseason could be tricky, that is true. They will have to gauge the progress of Banuelos and Betances and Hughes performance this year and then assess whether or not they need another veteran pitcher. This will in turn affect whether or not they dump Swisher. That may then have an effect on Cano and Grandy. I would personally always err on the side of pitching

    What would you do? You can only have 2 of Cano, Hamels, Cain, Granderson, & Swisher.

  50. yanks 27 February 20th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Wow, if you just heard Cashman’s final comment on Hughes with Francesa…. talk about high expectations. He says the fans would be calling him “Phil Franchise” again after this year and demand we sign him to a contract extension.

    Makes you wonder why he felt the need to sign 3 pitchers this winter then if he was destined for superstardom this year. Cash really is an odd dude. He’ll euphorically speak about some guys and sound down on other guys with similar track records/body of work…

  51. blake February 20th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    “We’d all like something resolved by the end of spring training,” said Matt Cain to Andrew Baggarly of CSNBayArea.com when asked about a contract extension. “I don’t think either side wants that to linger into the season.” Cain has already indicated that he will not give the Giants a hometown discount after already signing one team friendly contract.”

    MLBTR

  52. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    “RealMichaelKay
    NYY GM Brian Cashman admitted to us that he invoked the name of @JLin7 when speaking to his pitchers and catchers today.”

    Via Deadspin: SportsCenter went and mentioned Jeremy Lin 350 times in a single week.

    Maybe it’s a collective compulsion?

  53. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    As much as I love Granderson, I don’t know if he is worth a mega contract. He strikes out too much and I don’t foresee 40 HR being the norm for him, or even 30 HR.

  54. blake February 20th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    If you think Hughes is gonna be Phil-Phrancise again then why did you trade for Pineda Cash?

  55. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    “As much as I love Granderson, I don’t know if he is worth a mega contract. He strikes out too much and I don’t foresee 40 HR being the norm for him, or even 30 HR.”

    That may be true, but that money will then probably need to be allocated toward a bat.

  56. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    I’d take Cano and Hamels.

  57. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    Rich-

    Perhaps Mason Williams will be close by then…

  58. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    “If Phil Hughes is not a question then why did he sign Garcia, KURODA, and trade Montero for Pineda?”

    1.) Maybe the Yankees really don’t like something about Montero.

    2.) Maybe the Yankees believe highly in being 6 deep in the rotation.

    3.) Maybe the Yankees weren’t certain of getting Pineda and Kuroda when they signed Garcia? And maybe Kuroda represented such a good value to them, they couldn’t pass it up even when they secured Pineda and Garcia.

    4.) Maybe Brian Cashman is just talking up the one guy out of all the potential Yankee starters that had a tough 2012.

    You want more?

  59. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    He’ll euphorically speak about some guys and sound down on other guys with similar track records/body of work…

    I think he downplays guys who arent in danger of being replaced, lowering expectations publicly, and builds up guys who he perceives as being useful in a trade situation. Pretty standard I’d say for a guy looking to make a deal. Would not be surprised if Hughes is traded at some point.

  60. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    “As much as I love Granderson, I don’t know if he is worth a mega contract. He strikes out too much and I don’t foresee 40 HR being the norm for him, or even 30 HR.”

    Good news is when the times comes, Yankees will know if he hit 40HRs again and how he hit lefties again.

    I think if he does it again, you have to reconsider the equation, no?

  61. Bronx Jeers February 20th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Via Deadspin: SportsCenter went and mentioned Jeremy Lin 350 times in a single week.

    Maybe it’s a collective compulsion?

    ——————————

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9HJML_GB7I

  62. m February 20th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    One thing I’ve learned over the years is not to read too deeply into Cashman’s comments.

    Basically, the Yankees replaced AJ with Pineda, who is younger, better, and cheaper.

    Trading for Pineda was about reinforcing the rotation for years to come.

    Do all the dots connect back to the Montero trade?

  63. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    I’d take Cano and Hamels.

    Someones gotta play the outfield though :) This is the conundrum and why I don’t think they drop 20 mil on another pitcher. The 189 is going to be hard to fit under and maintain a team like the current one. There are going to need to be some prospect hits and trades. We could see some surprising deals the next 2 years.

  64. 4time February 20th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    And why does Pineda need to learn 3 pitches to be a frontline starter and isn’t there yet, but Hughes with 1.5 pitches is going to win 15+ games and be at the top of their roation (in his own words)?

  65. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    Stuckey-

    Absolutely, but I’d like to see a higher batting average out of him, especially if he is going to be batting second.

  66. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    I think if he does it again, you have to reconsider the equation, no?

    Do you think they should sign him to a big deal? He’ll be 32 and I’d say he would get 17-20 million per year on the open market. Lets say 5-6 years. Do you make that deal or do you say, “We got a lot of good stuff out of Granderson, we’re satisfied with that.”

  67. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    I gotta ask a bunch of you.

    Exactly where is this Yankees pitching gauge that read “Full” when the Pineda trade went down?

    And why are we discounting that Garcia and Kuroda are not really factors in acquistion of a 23 year old potential 1-2 with 5 years of team control remaining?

  68. Nick in SF February 20th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    That’s interesting, blake, but I’d like to see where Cain made the indications that MLBTR implied.

    Here is the Giants’ beat writer just after the Lincecum contract was announced:

    ” Lincecum is taking all the risk by going short on years (if accepting $40.5 million is considered “risky”). Pitchers get arm trouble, and though Lincecum’s health has not been an issue, he is mortal. He is bypassing the security of a longer deal in return for a potentially bigger payday down the road. If reports are true, Matt Cain is taking the opposite tack. He’s willing to accept a below-market, long-term deal in exchange for that security and stability. I’m told no deal is imminent with Cain.

  69. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    And why does Pineda need to learn 3 pitches to be a frontline starter and isn’t there yet, but Hughes with 1.5 pitches is going to win 15+ games and be at the top of their roation (in his own words)?

    Because Pineda is coming off a good season, and should be humble. Hughes is coming off a bad one and needs a pick me up?

  70. 4time February 20th, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    “I think if he does it again, you have to reconsider the equation, no?”

    Not really. Because the prospect is paying Granderson from ages 33 on for $20+ million. That won’t change regardless of performance. We’re going to be paying him for what he did these past 3 years, now what he will do going forward. Another episode in the vicious cycle.

    Just another reason why trading Montero was highly questionable. Having 30 HRs/100 RBIs from a 24 yr old kid would have alleviated the need to overpay the declining years of Granderson

  71. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    TheStraw

    That would be a lot development in a short time.

    Bronx Jeers

    Nice, I missed that.

  72. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    there is no tempering of enthusiasm with pineda. girardi, martin, etc are all hyping him up. it’s too much ,too soon. this kid is going to get too much attention which in the yankee organization is the kiss of death. just ask joba and hughes.

    what martin was thinking is ” thanks god they got rid of that montero kid. i was history with him
    around”

  73. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    “Do you think they should sign him to a big deal? He’ll be 32 and I’d say he would get 17-20 million per year on the open market. Lets say 5-6 years. Do you make that deal or do you say, “We got a lot of good stuff out of Granderson, we’re satisfied with that.”

    Good question. On your terms, I might say no, with the caveat your figures I’m responding to strike me as a little high.

    Depends on other factors as well. Is Arod a corpse by then?. Depending on what happens the next 2 season, can they reasonably expect any offense from catcher in 2014? Is Mason Williams knocking on the door? Did Tex stop the bleeding? Has Gardner established an above average level? What are they getting from DH? How dominant is the starting pitching?

    As I always say, the one thing I can say for certain about 2014 is no one can say for certain what 2014 will look like.

    But 6/$20m I’d lean towards no, knowing just want I know now.

  74. m February 20th, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    JF,

    Could be Cashman gently reminding people that, contrary to popular belief, Phil Hughes did not die.

    Who’s around with the Yankees longer? Hughes or Garcia?

  75. LockDown February 20th, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    IMO the moment he traded for pineda I felt it was to replace Hughes as the young/future arm. Then they’ll have Nova, Pineda, banuelos, Betances/Campos.

    From what I’ve heard, Cash has spoken the most highly of Noesi, Montero & Hughes. And look at what happened to Noesi & Montero. I think he wants to up Hughes’ value by making it public that he’s your 2/3 SP. Maybe they’re looking for a young future bat, like Bryce… :) Yeah, they’re not getting him, but I can dream

    Looks like Garcia is the 6th man with the idea of moving him into the rotation once Hughes is traded. Though I wonder if Garcia will want to be traded. With Hughes being thrust into the rotation (via Cashman), it makes this competition, not so much of a competition.

    Side note: I wonder how strong Joba will be when he comes back. Could he be stretched out in AAA as a starter or is that ship sailed? Could he be traded with the possibility of starting if he does well in AAA? Yeah, it’s the Joba can of worms thing. :/

    LINSANITY!!!!

  76. Best To Ever Do It February 20th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    4time February 20th, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    And why does Pineda need to learn 3 pitches to be a frontline starter and isn’t there yet, but Hughes with 1.5 pitches is going to win 15+ games and be at the top of their roation (in his own words)?

    ———————————

    Cash has been pumping Hughes since the winter began.

  77. TheStraw February 20th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    I wonder if Arod would ever consider restructuring his contract if it meant adding pieces that would mean more shots at rings. Lord knows he has enough money.

  78. Best To Ever Do It February 20th, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    I wonder how strong Joba will be when he comes back. Could he be stretched out in AAA as a starter or is that ship sailed? Could he be traded with the possibility of starting if he does well in AAA? Yeah, it’s the Joba can of worms thing. :/

    ————————–

    They won’t stretch him out if Joba wants to start in two yrs when he is a free agent he can find a team that will give him a shot.

  79. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    “there is no tempering of enthusiasm with pineda. girardi, martin, etc are all hyping him up. it’s too much ,too soon. this kid is going to get too much attention which in the yankee organization is the kiss of death. just ask joba and hughes.”

    Gotta say Randy, given your hands-on baseball experience, to see you essentially absolving Hughes and Chamberlain and their bodies of responsibility for their production/development and seemingly putting all the blame on the pressures of the market and their ‘handlers’ is surprising.

    Strikes me as a position of necessity given your other stringent positions more than an organic one.

    Me, I’d by rule place the lion’s share of responsibility for the development of an individual on the individual. I’m a self-determination guy. That’s what my athletic experiences – and life – has taught me.

  80. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    @granthpaulsen

    Mike Rizzo on Bryce Harper to @1067thefandc: “If he’s one of the best 25, he’ll make the club and go north.” #Nats

  81. BTX February 20th, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    I am starting to get the feeling that Yankee fans just can’t enjoy their team. It is never living in the moment and seeing how things play out. The demand for excellence has really ruined the enjoyment of the team for some people and they can’t just sit still and soak it all in… it always has to be about projection and absolutes… what this guy will do, won’t do, why they didn’t sign this guy, why they traded this guy, etc.

    Watch the Knicks or Giants to see how fans let go of expectations and soak it all in and take things day by day. It is pretty intense, enjoyable, and satisfying.

  82. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    Hey Odds, if you’re out there, take a look.

    Here’s an interesting perspective on screwed up Joba development, and the inverted W in general:

    For some reason, they wouldn’t let me post the link, so here are the key words in the link if anyone wants to read the whole thing:

    the-pitching-technique-thats-threatening-baseballs-young-phenoms

    ……”The “W” took a little while to get Joba. When he made his debut late in the 2007 season, Chamberlain was the hardest throwing right-hander the Yankees had seen in more half a century. Roger Kahn, perhaps the greatest living sportswriter, saw every Yankees pitcher from the end of World War II through this century. Kahn told me three years ago that, “In his velocity and his fearlessness, he [Joba] most reminds me Allie Reynolds”—the flame-throwing right-hander who was the ace of Casey Stengel’s five consecutive World Series winners from 1949-1953 and threw two no-hitters in 1951.

    Like Reynolds, who was part Creek Indian, Chamberlain has Native American blood—on his father’s side, the Winnebago tribe in Nebraska. And like Reynolds, he seemed capable of both starting (which he did in college for the University of Nebraska) and relief (which he has mostly been doing for the Yankees). A big difference between them, said Kahn, “Joba is eight years younger than Allie when he came to the Yankees. Another difference is that he throws harder than Allie ever did.”

    Blessed with a torrid, hopping fastball that sometimes topped 100 mph on the radar gun, Chamberlain also had a hard slider that broke downwards with such force that Ron Guidry, then the Yankees pitching coach, commented, “When you don’t get good wood on it, it hurts your hands like you’ve just whacked a bowling ball with a broomstick.”

    When he first came up, he was coming off the mound like the great Tom Seaver, with a powerful, effortless stride. His mechanics were similar to Seaver’s; as he started to move forward off the mound, his arm was already c o c k e d and the ball just about his head. He pitched only 24 innings in 2007 but was positively overpowering, striking out 34 of the 91 batters he faced and walking just six. His ERA of 0.38 was, in the words of BronxBanter.com’s Alex Belth, “lower than a Kardashian’s IQ.”

    In the spring of 2008, after the words came the coddling. When this happens with a young pitcher, it is always a case of decision by committee. Then-manager Joe Torre and general manager Brian Cashman came up with “The Joba Rules,” which limited the number of pitches he could throw in an outing and the frequency he was allowed to throw them, instead of just letting him pitch and see how long he was effective before tiring.

    Worse, they began tinkering with Joba. Yankees new pitching coach Dave Eiland and special pitching instructor Rich Monteleone worked with him to add a curve ball and a change-up to his arsenal. The change-up was a natural—nearly every great fastball pitcher develops one, and the greater his fastball, the more devastating the change-up. But I remember sitting in the press box at Yankee Stadium with Baseball Prospectus’s Will Carroll, who has studied pitching injuries for years, when we were handed the press release on the curve ball experiment. Carroll articulated my thoughts, “Why put strain on that young arm by teaching him a curve ball? What’s wrong with fastball-slider-change?” To which I added, let him learn the curve ball as his arm grows stronger. We were right.”

    Here’s hoping developmental pitching problems at least in part followed Dave Eiland out the door.

  83. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    http://www.theatlantic.com/ent.....defined,0_

    OK, for Joba link, I found the offending word and did a space bar thing with it, but forgot to re-include link. There it is^

  84. Keith--FL February 20th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    I would so much rather have Johhny Damon up in a playoff series game in the eighth inning down by 1 run than Ibanez, AROD, Swisher, Tex, Gardner….but if it was a money thing, then just say it and dont say b/c Ibanez at 39 can play defense….his #’s last year were vs. bad pitching and good playoff pitching will eat him up just like Swisher….I know it’s your personal life Cashman, but frankly I am shocked you had an affair with a woman who is a known stalker and didn’t do a little background check on what you were getting into or think about Steve Phillips’s nightmare, even if he had an affair with an employee of the same company…..as the GM of the Yankees you are a very high profile figure and your bad judgement, albeit in your personal life is making me question your Yankee decisions and specifically why Damon isn’t back here as a clutch LH DH…remember, we needed clutch hitters the last 2 years in the playoffs….but if you want to win the WS in Mariano Rivera’s last year, you should have signed Damon……as we need clutch hitters….

  85. Eroc February 20th, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    “Mike Rizzo on Bryce Harper to @1067thefandc: “If he’s one of the best 25, he’ll make the club and go north.” #Nats”

    If he were with the Yankees, either

    A.) Cashman/Girardi would have brought him north and turned him into a utility man who seldom plays

    B.) Keep him in the minors way past his expiration date and not give him many chances at the ML level

    C.) Trade him away for an arm the team doesn’t need because he might not fit in positionally with the current roster, despite his HOF hitting potential.

  86. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    “I’m a self-determination guy. That’s what my athletic experiences – and life – has taught me.”

    stuckey -

    i agree.

    all young pitchers should tell cashman to go f himself.

    pineda should do it asap and take charge of his own development.

    had wang been less coachable and done the same thing, he would not have been run into the ground
    and ruined by cashman.

  87. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    That Joba piece made me misty, but the Rules started in 2007.

  88. Howe Farr February 20th, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Kieth–FL

    You know this isn’t Cashman’s inbox?

  89. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    “I am starting to get the feeling that Yankee fans just can’t enjoy their team. It is never living in the moment and seeing how things play out. The demand for excellence has really ruined the enjoyment of the team for some people and they can’t just sit still and soak it all in… it always has to be about projection and absolutes… what this guy will do, won’t do, why they didn’t sign this guy, why they traded this guy, etc.”

    BTX, my theory for sometime now is that for many fans who gather online, the actual games have taken a backseat to media discourse it generates in terms of where the greater interest lies. I believe what fans REALLY want is less of the 2.5-3 hours of seeing your team perform, and more of the 24 hour media dialogue about how your team is performing.

    Given the Yankees payroll and the criticism that comes with it, being anything less than the defending champion and odds-on favorite to repeat doesn’t sit well.

  90. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    # Eroc February 20th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    I find it amusing how Cashman is talking up Hughes so much while tempering expectations for Nova/Pineda.

    He’s almost setting up Hughes to fail – “he’s goin to win at least 15 games if healthy”, “he is 100% healthy and we expect him to be at the top of the rotation”, etc.

    He hasn’t talked this highly of someone since… Noesi.
    ///

    If he’s setting him up for a trade, I don’t think Cashman’s rhetoric on his own players carries too much weight. Cashman really just needs to shut up. What’s he doing talking up Hughes and telling reporters about sitting down with CC for a delicate talk about his weight issues?

    Maybe he wants to keep the hounds off his private life, so he’s throwing them some bones more often. Whatever his motives, he needs to shut up.

  91. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    Watch the Knicks or Giants to see how fans let go of expectations and soak it all in and take things day by day. It is pretty intense, enjoyable, and satisfying

    You think watching the Knicks the past 5 years has been intense, enjoyable, and satisfying?

  92. ac1 February 20th, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    triple – Good thing the Sox and Mariners didn’t listen to that advice with their elite DH’s they have had

    ___

    Also if there are going to be more interleague games next year and beyond, the DH is less important and should be used to give ARod/Jeter, etc half days off….

  93. Tom in N.J. February 20th, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Why not just call the “Inverted W” the M?

  94. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Yeah, Rich, he’s got the wrong year on that.

    Interesting piece. I agree with the over-tweaking premise. You can see that through before and after videos.

    Rothschild was smart, going back to old Joba tapes and having him go back to his old hands break (Joba reportedly independently made the same observation).

  95. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    Doesn’t sound as cool :)

  96. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    I don’t know about that account. Joba already had a curve and change in the minors, whats this about Eiland and a pitching instructor adding it to his repertoire post call up?

  97. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    “i agree.

    “all young pitchers should tell cashman to go f himself.

    “pineda should do it asap and take charge of his own development.

    “had wang been less coachable and done the same thing, he would not have been run into the ground and ruined by cashman.”

    And after a few hours of psuedo-reasonability from you, your true agenda inevitably resurfaces.

  98. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Why not just call the “Inverted W” the M?

    There is a real reason for this, but I cant quite articulate it. I think its something to do with an inverted W not really being an M…

  99. Rich in NJ February 20th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Yeah, we would rebut the Joba/Papelbon comparisons at the end of 2007 by pointing out that Joba had three plus pitches, and a developing fourth pitch.

  100. m February 20th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    ‘M’ isn’t cool? :(

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    The hopping fastball and snappy arm action had just gone missing once they messed around with him. Different pitcher entirely.

    Boy if you could just turn back the clock, and have Rothschild instead of Eiland…

  102. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    http://www.drivelinebaseball.c.....not-the-m/

  103. Eroc February 20th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    What the Yanks did to Joba is tears-worthy

  104. RMS February 20th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    And after a few hours of psuedo-reasonability from you, your true agenda inevitably resurfaces.

    ——————————————————————————————————————–
    Right. He just hates Cashman and always takes shots at him.

  105. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    Inverted W sounds more subversive.

  106. CompassRosy February 20th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    “Why not just call the “Inverted W” the M?”

    ~

    Thanks for reminding me that I’ve been wondering this myself so, I googled and found one explanation…

    http://tinyurl.com/6oyfwex

    Some people have asked why it isn’t called an inverted ‘M’. This is not just a font-based issue. The key here is not the ‘W,’ it is the inverted position of the arm. The ‘W’ is just a method of describing the inversion. Simply calling this an ‘M’ does not do justice to the inversion of the arm in this and similar positions.

  107. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    “And after a few hours of psuedo-reasonability from you, your true agenda inevitably resurfaces.”

    stuckey-

    hey, i was just agreeing with you. pitchers should ultimately decide themselves how they are going to pitch.

    if you read the joba article JAP provided a link to you’ll understand why any young pitcher should tell cashman where to go.

    you do realize that pineda has the inverted “W” don’t you ?

  108. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    And there isn’t a comparison between football and baseball. Completely different. Less games, more emphasis on winning each game. Less tolerance for failure. Team cohesion is more important, as units must work together to achieve goals rather than relying on the efforts of individual performance.

    Baseball is about anticipation and suspense and sudden action. Its about knowing what a pitcher or hitter needs or should do and watching the choice happen before your eyes.

    Its a lot easier to keep track of the different moving pieces in baseball than it is in football. You’d have to be pretty keen to watch the QB/pocket, the defense, all the routes being run, etc.

  109. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    # Eroc February 20th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    What the Yanks did to Joba is tears-worthy
    ///

    Eppler and Eiland are ghouls.

  110. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    ” He just hates Cashman and always takes shots at him.”

    yeah, so.

  111. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Rosy, how’s The Bat doing? Settling in?

  112. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    repeating “cashman ruined wang” for 3 years hasn’t made it true yet, how many more years will it take?

  113. blake February 20th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Nick,

    That report may be inaccurate…..but that’s where I got what I said. I think Cain will get 20 million AAV either way.

  114. RMS February 20th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    yeah, so.

    ———————————————————————————————
    After a while it just gets tiresome, that’s all.
    With all your baseball knowledge, it would be nice to read your posts minus the Cashman shots.

  115. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    randy – Were you yelled at by a GM in the bullpen or something as a kid? Your knowledge on baseball seems to leap back and forth between the insightful and the absurd on a regular basis…

  116. Mike_Boston February 20th, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    Front office killed AJ on the way out the door, wow. The press release details his poor stats (can’t recall that ever happening in the past?). Classless move no matter how bad he was, it’s something you would expect from the sox.

  117. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    “if you read the joba article JAP provided a link to you’ll understand why any young pitcher should tell cashman where to go.”

    Then why don’t they? Isn’t your entire persona based on the how people who do and can know more than people who never have or could?

    These are elite athletes were talking about here. More elite than you ever were. So why do you give them NO credit or responsibility for making these decisions for themselves and think you know better than they do. That utterly contradicts everything you ever claimed you stand for.

    “you do realize that pineda has the inverted “W” don’t you ?”

    You realize that I can post a link with a 5 second google search discrediting the theory, right?

    http://danblewett.com/2009/06/.....nverted-w/

    What does ONE link prove?

  118. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    The press release details his poor stats

    They detail his stats, like every Yankee press release ever has done. They happened to be poor, who’s fault is that?

  119. yanks 27 February 20th, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    The Knicks/Giants play in a salary cap/level playing field sport.

    Their runs are always going to be more captivating because they are irregular. The Knicks have sucked for 10 years, of course when they have a good streak, fans will go gaga. Let’s not also forget the narrative behind the Knicks resurgence and how that has captivated the sports world.

    NFL playoff runs are also always treated royally, again, because of the parity. Giants were 7-7, no one expected them to do anything, blah blah blah. Sol when they go on this great run, of course it is celebrated. Ditto what the Jets did in 09, 10 even though they didn’t finish it.

    Yanks have a huge resources advantage, have a winning core and won recently, and should have higher expectations. Not to mention, there are inherent flaws in the way that they do their business and have done in the past half decade or so. They make questionable decisions often and do not always utilize their resources in the most optimal manner, given they have great luxuries and freedom that other sports/teams don’t. Thus, they deserve to be over-analyzed.

    And FTR, I don’t think any analysis of the off-season Cashman had or the development of pitching is offbase at all.

  120. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    stuckey – In order to isolate a variable, which is necessary to conclude anything about causation or correlation, proper samples must be taken from the population in question

    Boy I wish more people would click that link you just posted.

  121. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    “yeah, so.”

    Because it’s clear to that you let it color and shape every idea you have about the modern Yankee era.

    Your bias is acknowledged so your credibility suffers as a result.

  122. Patrick February 20th, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Reports from the first day of spring training.. perhaps the most meaningless thing in sports?

  123. Mike_Boston February 20th, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    They detail his stats, like every Yankee press release ever has done. They happened to be poor, who’s fault is that?
    —————————————————–
    How about “we wish him the best of luck in the future” and call it a day?

  124. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    “it would be nice to read your posts minus the Cashman shots.”

    cashman is an a hole.

    he’s a fraud who really doesn’t know baseball.

    he embarrasses players like bernie, tried to strong arm jeter, ruins wangs career, embarrasses his wife and kids, and the yankees.

    what exactly is it you like about him?

  125. austinmac February 20th, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    If I were to invoke Lin’s name to the players it would be to tell them we recognize their may be diamonds in the rough and we promise to be looking. It is up to you players to shine. Seems like a good motivator.

  126. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    “Yanks have a huge resources advantage, have a winning core and won recently, and should have higher expectations.”

    Fair point.

    What are the expectations? What level of performance should the Yankees be achieving?

  127. RMS February 20th, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    cashman is an a hole.

    he’s a fraud who really doesn’t know baseball.

    ————————————————————————————————–
    You are hopeless.

  128. Patrick February 20th, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    Can’t criticize Cashman for going out with some chick when he’s been separated from his wife for >1 year. Granted, he probably should avoid the crazy ones but come on, cut him some slack

  129. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    I don’t know about that account. Joba already had a curve and change in the minors, whats this about Eiland and a pitching instructor adding it to his repertoire post call up?
    ///

    He definitely had a curve in the minors. The fourth pitch was the change. Maybe he made an assumption because it’s a different arm slot and it struck him as awkward. It’s never been a great pitch for him, but useful that he had it.

    He’s right about the mechanical tweaks, though. The jump on that fastball, the whippy arm speed, the legs striding forward, that morphed into something that made him pedestrian and perhaps injury prone.

  130. MaineYankee February 20th, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 4:57 pm
    randy – Were you yelled at by a GM in the bullpen or something as a kid
    ———————————————————

    No a GM told him he didn’t know what he was talking about. :D:

    He has made it his life long goal to prove them wrong.

  131. J. Alfred Prufrock February 20th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Cashman does come off like a punk sometimes, and he seems to enjoy sticking it to the sort of iconic player. Maybe he needs to prove something to himself, but whatever it is, it’s gratuitous and not pretty.

    I used to like the guy. Now, I can’t even stand to hear his nasal voice.

  132. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    http://t.co/VwJaO7m1

  133. m February 20th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Cashman is well-respected.

    Cashman DOES know baseball.

    Cashman doesn’t care what people think of him.

    Cashman is still in the game. At the highest level. That’s not a dig at you, randy. It’s just stating a fact.

  134. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    That link is a pro-click.

  135. Irreverent Discourse February 20th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    he embarrasses players like bernie

    Bernie embarassed himself.

    Your version of history is so skewed I question your ability to remember things in an unbiased fashion.

  136. Nick in SF February 20th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    “A man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself and for others. When he has no respect for anyone, he can no longer love, and in him, he yields to his impulses, indulges in the lowest form of pleasure, and behaves in the end like an animal in satisfying his vices. And it all comes from lying — to others and to yourself.”

    – Dostoevsky

  137. Patrick February 20th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    That link is a pro-click.

    Yes it is

  138. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    Yanks 27 has asserted the NY Yankees should have higher expectations than other teams.

    I’m going to take a intuitive leap and assume like many here, he believes the Yankees should continue to flex their financial might and not be limited to a soft-budget, which will inherently lead to even greater expectations.

    The Yankees have won a WS, gone to a ALCS and the ALDS in consecutive years.

    Given the nature of the current postseason format, I’d argue that being a Yankee fan for someone is a sure-fire recipe for unmet expectations.

    By rule, being a fan will be a exercise in disappointment and frustration.

    I can’t find any virtue or appeal in this.

  139. Yankee Trader February 20th, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    A.J. Burnett Blames Everyone But Himself
    by Ed Valentine • Feb 20, 2012 4:50 PM EST

    http://newyork.sbnation.com/20.....ut-himself

    Good riddance!

  140. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    “Cashman is well-respected.”

    no he isn’t. he’s a coffee gofer who stuck around long enough to get some power.

    you must hate it that i told you all along all these years of lohud that he was a lousy human being and then it turned out i was right with him publically embarrassing his wife and kids.

    of course, that was all my fault that he CHOSE to be in a year long relationship with a certifiable nutcase.

    m-
    you are the one who is delusional about cashman , not me.

  141. Jerkface February 20th, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    no he isn’t. he’s a coffee gofer who stuck around long enough to get some power.

    Everyone in the league that you aspired to be a part of respects him.

  142. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    “Bernie embarassed himself.”

    hahahhahahhahahahhaha

    bernie had a .936 ops as a right handed batter in his last year.

    yup, that’s real embarrassing.

  143. Patrick February 20th, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    you must hate it that i told you all along all these years of lohud that he was a lousy human being and then it turned out i was right with him publically embarrassing his wife and kids.

    He dated a woman after breaking up with his wife. What a jerk!

  144. austinmac February 20th, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    “he’s a coffee gofer who stuck around long enough to get some power”.

    Without citing yourself, provide a link, cite or reference to anyone who has expressed that opinion which you profess to be fact.

  145. m February 20th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    randy l,

    I “must hate”?

    You must hate the fact that Cash has such a thick blackbook.

    Your hatred knows no bounds.

    It’s affecting your posting. Not only are you getting increasingly irrational, but your posting percentage is going up. Remember those days? When you derided frequent posters? You’re probably top 3 these days. ;)

  146. Patrick February 20th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    If Bernie was so good why didn’t he sign with another team?

  147. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    “Granted, he probably should avoid the crazy ones but come on, cut him some slack”

    patrick-

    never embarrass your wife and kids.

  148. austinmac February 20th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Pat,

    Separated from one’s wife is a lonely time. Dating at this time is, I suspect, very common.

  149. stuckey February 20th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Randy, do you hold Mickey Mantle – the man who reportedly brought his wife and mistress to his retirement ceremony – which is just the tip of the iceberg for someone whose personal life does not mesh with his beloved place in fan’s hearts, in the same low-regard you do Brian Cashman?

  150. Triple Short of a Cycle February 20th, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    He dated a woman after breaking up with his wife. What a jerk!

    ————————————————————

    He was cheating on her with a different woman while he was married

  151. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    “You must hate the fact that Cash has such a thick blackbook.”

    hhahahhahahahaha

    yeah , i ‘ve had a real tough time in my life with women.

  152. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    “If Bernie was so good why didn’t he sign with another team?”

    patrick-

    he should have.

  153. m February 20th, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Hahahahaha.

    I was referring to his baseball blackbook. That he uses to run the Yankees?

  154. randy l. February 20th, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    “I was referring to his baseball blackbook. That he uses to run the Yankees?”

    m-

    that’s actually kind of funny.

    you can see how i thought you were referring to the other kind of black book :)

  155. Yankee Trader February 20th, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    New Post—->

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    Joe gave me a call this offseason and said, ‘We’ve got to get this guy to work on his changeup,’ and obviously he has worked on his changeup because what I saw was a good changeup.

    **************

    eh? And what do you know Mr. Martin. You’re just a major league catcher and an excellent game caller who handled the staff beautifully last year in your first year in the AL.

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