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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Slip of the tongue: Girardi uses Chavez’s name in talking about bench

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 21, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Joe Girardi was sitting in his office, talking about his plans at designated hitter. He was explaining that, while either Raul Ibanez or Andruw Jones will likely be in the lineup every day — Ibanez against righties, Jones against lefties — they won’t exactly platoon at designated hitter. Either one could play an outfield corner to give someone else a breather.

“If you wanted to DH Tex, you could move Swish to first if you wanted,” Girardi said. “Or you could put Chavez at first.”

Wait a second… Chavez? Eric Chavez? The guy who’s not on the roster?

“If he shows up,” Girardi said. “We don’t have him, but there’s been talk about that we might get him. That’s not official.”

The Yankees have been open about their desire to bring Chavez back in a bench role, and it seems Girardi is already envisioning a team with Chavez in the mix. He’s not here yet, but his old locker is still empty in the spring training clubhouse.

“We’ve had discussions with him,” Giradri said. “But I don’t know if he’s going to be a part of our club. I’d like to have him back. I thought he was productive for us, and he gives me flexibility.”

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196 Responses to “Slip of the tongue: Girardi uses Chavez’s name in talking about bench”

  1. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    We’ll see how quickly JR moves up; getting hurt at the end of 2011 didn’t help, and he is still learning his position, but he did have 85 AB’s at Tampa already and I could see him at Trenton at some point later in year, depending on a number of factors foremost of which is his catching progression. The kid’s bat won’t hold him back; that is for sure.

  2. Nick in SF February 21st, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    “Seems like people here are the only ones down on [Pineda].”

    Pretty much just one person is down on Pineda.

  3. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Ibanez is left-handed, so he’ll probably hit some HRs in the Stadium.

    From Montero to Ibanez……

    —————————————

    From a young potential to another old guy.

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    yankeefem, maybe he’s a late season callup, but if they’re serious about him catching, I think it might take longer.

    The bat won’t hold him back; he could outhit a lot of the guys on the ML roster right now.

  5. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Ibanez is left-handed, so he’ll probably hit some HRs in the Stadium.

    From Montero to Ibanez……
    ——————-

    Actually it’s from Posada to Ibanez

  6. djsunyc February 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    with the drop off in DH presence this year, i think we really need to explore batting gardner leadoff.

    gardner
    jeter
    cano
    arod
    granderson
    tex
    swisher
    DH
    martin

  7. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Ibanez is left-handed, so he’ll probably hit some HRs in the Stadium.

    From Montero to Ibanez……

    —————————————

    From a young potential to another old guy.
    ////

    Odds, someone take those keys away from Cashman, quick.

  8. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    No, Montero was slated to be the DH, but if that were so: Posada FTW.

  9. ron February 21st, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    “J R Murphy leaped onto the scouting scene after the 2008 summer when he set nearly every offensvie record for the highly regarded Florida Bombers summer team; a team that has had the likes of Eric Hosmer, JP Arencibia, and Jamile Weeks (All First Round Picks)”.

    “Murphy continued to impress scouts throughout his senior season at The Pendleton School at IMG Academies where he hit .627 with 11 home runs and 66 runs batted in while leading his team to a 31-1 record and a national ranking (#8)”.

  10. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    I was all on board for Jones last year and was one of his biggest advocates from the get-go, but I knew what he could do, and expected it. Ibanez, however… Did anyone who watched Raul observe any difference in the 2010 vs. the 2011 Ibanez? Obviously, the 2011 stats speak for themselves: pretty poor #’s across the board with some SLG vs. RHP but a poor OBP. Hopefully, we see 2010 Ibanez and he doesn’t get short-porch and therefore long-swing crazy; we have enough of those types vs. RHP and don’t need a hitter who doesn’t walk or get on base except via the occasional long ball. But have to think Raul won’t stick around if he doesn’t produce, and I am still expecting some big move down the road.

  11. Pat M. February 21st, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    It’s great that we can share our opinions here and many times were wrong, some more than others….But keep in mind that there’s no consequences ( other than the occasional wager ) when we’re proven wrong…..The decision makers in the Bronx have to live with these decisions, it’s their jobs and it’s there tails that are on the line……..Ibanez just might prove to be the pickup of the 2012 season when you consider the cost…….

  12. DONNYBROOK February 21st, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    After the season Grandy had outta the Honey-Hole 2 Slot, I don’t believe the Yanks wantta move him outta there. Swisher has Not been the same hitter since the Yanks moved him outta that spot. If Martin does some decent situational hitting, the bottom half of the order will be OK as is, including the addition of Ibanez down there.

  13. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Ron, Pruf, JR is a heckuva hitter and a heckuva situational hitter. I wouldn’t doubt he could outhit many mlb hitters. Love to see him develop a little more pop, as he matures.

  14. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    No, Montero was slated to be the DH, but if that were so: Posada FTW.
    —————-

    As I said on the last thread – whether you prefer Posada, Damon, Matsui, Ibanez, or Vlad the bottom line is that none of them are good ballplayers anymore – the Yankees took the one who has the most power and would sign for the least amount of money.

    Between Ibanez and Jones they’ll give you at least what Jorge did last year out of the DH spot.

    As for Montero – Montero got you Pineda which got rid of AJ Burnett in favor of a better, more talented pitcher more than 10 years Burnett’s junior.

  15. Bronx Jeers February 21st, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Ibanez was voted the 2nd nicest guy in the league behind Jim Thome. Plus he kind of looks like Imhotep the mummy.

    http://mikekarnell.tumblr.com/.....nt-imhotep

  16. DONNYBROOK February 21st, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Undecided as to which picture above is “cheesier”. Girardi or Chavez?????

  17. Nick in SF February 21st, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Good morning, Pat M. Yesterday there was a quote from Cashman about expecting/hoping for Hughes to be at the top of the rotation, which I took to mean #2 or #3.

    I suggested to LGY that he give you a bonus $5 if Hughes indeed starts the season slotted just one or two spots past CC. LGY agreed.

    Will you agree to give LGY a bonus $5 if Hughes is traded before Opening Day?

  18. BryanV21 February 21st, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    A big difference in Raul’s approach to at bats last year can be seen in his low BB-rate, which went from 10.7% in 2010 to 5.7% in 2011. So I think it’s pretty simple how Ibanez can be the guy he was in 2010 (who hit .277/.366/.455 vs. RHP), and therefore be a nice boost to a lineup that had an iffy DH at best for most of the 2011 season.

  19. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    As for Montero – Montero got you Pineda which got rid of AJ Burnett in favor of a better, more talented pitcher more than 10 years Burnett’s junior.
    ///

    Kuroda’s signing would have been sufficient. Hughes, Nova, CC. Warren close. Kuroda plus Montero would have made the Yankees nearly invincible, IMO.

  20. BryanV21 February 21st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Anybody that thinks the Yankees needed an offensive boost, rather than a defensive/pitching boost, is delusional. Thus making the Montero/Pineda deal make total sense.

  21. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    As for Montero – Montero got you Pineda which got rid of AJ Burnett in favor of a better, more talented pitcher more than 10 years Burnett’s junior.
    ///

    Kuroda’s signing would have been sufficient. Hughes, Nova, CC. Warren close. Kuroda plus Montero would have made the Yankees nearly invincible, IMO.
    ————————-

    Kuroda is a 1 year band aid.

    Warren is no where near the pitcher Pineda is. Pineda is as young and far more advanced than any other pitcher the Yankees have in the system by far.

  22. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    And the offense will be just as strong as it was last year – probably stronger if Alex can put together a healthy season.

  23. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    The reports on Ibanez were that he’s lost a lot of bat speed and has been getting beat consistently on fastballs…..thats unlikely to change when Ibanez is already in excellent shape and 40 years old.

  24. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    JAP -

    I know you believe Montero walks on water so I’m not going to fight with you over whether or not this was a good move or bad move – we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

  25. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    The reports on Ibanez were that he’s lost a lot of bat speed and has been getting beat consistently on fastballs…..thats unlikely to change when Ibanez is already in excellent shape and 40 years old.
    ————-

    Allegedly he worked some things out with Rudy Jaramillo who helped him correct something in his swing that they believe will make him quicker to the ball. I say “allegedly” because I put as much stock in that as I do those reports of players being in “the best shape of their lives”

  26. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Ibanez is left-handed, so he’ll probably hit some HRs in the Stadium.

    From Montero to Ibanez……

    —————————————

    From a young potential to another old guy.
    ////

    Odds, someone take those keys away from Cashman, quick.
    ————————–

    He’s in the driver’s seat buddy just put the seat belt on and hope for a safe trip :)

  27. BryanV21 February 21st, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    “And the offense will be just as strong as it was last year – probably stronger if Alex can put together a healthy season.”

    Exactly! And it’s not as if the future of the offense was in question. Remember, it’s always easier to acquire a good/great bat, than it is to get a good/great starter.

  28. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Chip,

    We shall see.

  29. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    And the offense will be just as strong as it was last year – probably stronger if Alex can put together a healthy season.

    ———————–

    I think the concerns about the offense are more about 2013 and beyond. At some point it’s going to be Cano and the other

  30. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    others*

  31. m1kew February 21st, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Chad – When and if Chavez joins the Yankees a spot on the 40 man roster will have to be cleared. When can Feliciano be placed on the IR list? If neither he nor Chamberlin can be placed on the IR list in your opinion who is most likely to be removed?

  32. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Remember, it’s always easier to acquire a good/great bat, than it is to get a good/great starter.
    ———————————

    According to blake that’s not the case

  33. ET February 21st, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Bill Hall > Chavez

  34. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Blake, figured it was decline. Also concerned about his suddenly platoon DH’ing when he has been a regular…

    On the bright side, Ibanez was much better with RISP .292/ .338/.504 when he came in as a sub. :mrgreen:

  35. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    And the offense will be just as strong as it was last year – probably stronger if Alex can put together a healthy season.

    ———————–

    I think the concerns about the offense are more about 2013 and beyond. At some point it’s going to be Cano and the other
    ——————

    and now that the Yankees will have a young, cost controlled rotation for the next 6 years they can afford to focus their financial resources on the lineup. Also they can afford to use a high end pitching prospect like Betances to get a bat as well.

  36. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    My concerns about the offense are for this year, especially situational offense/playoff offense. Hoping we get a big year out of Alex.

  37. BryanV21 February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “According to blake that’s not the case”

    Then Blake needs to pay closer attention. The cost for a young/good pitcher is way higher than it is for a young/good hitter (see the Latos and Gonzalez deals), and free agency tends to have a lot more good/great hitters in it as well.

  38. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    ————————-

    Kuroda is a 1 year band aid.

    Warren is no where near the pitcher Pineda is. Pineda is as young and far more advanced than any other pitcher the Yankees have in the system by far.
    ///

    But Betances is, and he’s a year away at most. Warren would have been for pitching depth, which is why I mentioned him last. But don’t sell him short; he locates his fastball well, one that can top out at 96, and is supposed to have tightened up his slider. Throws a good change, too. Didn’t even mention Phelps and DJ Mitchell. Or Noesi, who would still be here.

    The Yankees had lots of pitching depth, at the major-league level and at AAA.

  39. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    should read: RISP *AND when he came in as a sub.

  40. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:10 pm
    Remember, it’s always easier to acquire a good/great bat, than it is to get a good/great starter.
    ———————————

    According to blake that’s not the case
    _____
    +1 if we are talking elite pitcher/bat.

  41. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    YF,

    Im not a huge fan of platoons in general….I think the best think that could happen might be for Jones to win the primary DH job outright….against righties and lefties with Ibanez being an occasional DH and bench bat. That may not happen …..but if it did it might be most productive for the team.

  42. Baseball Mogul February 21st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    When can Feliciano be placed on the IR list? If neither he nor Chamberlin can be placed on the IR list in your opinion who is most likely to be removed?

    ———————————–

    Since Sox put Jerks on 60 day to make room for Carpenter the Yankees should be able to with Feliciano.

  43. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    ————————-

    Kuroda is a 1 year band aid.

    Warren is no where near the pitcher Pineda is. Pineda is as young and far more advanced than any other pitcher the Yankees have in the system by far.
    ///

    But Betances is, and he’s a year away at most. Warren would have been for pitching depth, which is why I mentioned him last. But don’t sell him short; he locates his fastball well, one that can top out at 96, and is supposed to have tightened up his slider. Throws a good change, too. Didn’t even mention Phelps and DJ Mitchell. Or Noesi, who would still be here.

    The Yankees had lots of pitching depth, at the major-league level and at AAA.
    ———————

    Pineda is younger than Betances and Betances has had what – 30 innings above AAA? Not even comparable.

    Phelps and Mitchell and Noesi might develop into nice back of the rotation options. Pineda would have to fall pretty far to reach their level.

  44. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    He’s in the driver’s seat buddy just put the seat belt on and hope for a safe trip
    ///

    Yep. Hoping Alex can be free of injuries and have a vintage Alex season. We know the pitching will be good enough (I thought so before they made this stupid trade, but Pineda will obviously make it better).

  45. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Chip, there goes your high end pitching depth if you trade Betances…

  46. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Baseball Mogul February 21st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    When can Feliciano be placed on the IR list? If neither he nor Chamberlin can be placed on the IR list in your opinion who is most likely to be removed?

    ———————————–

    Since Sox put Jerks on 60 day to make room for Carpenter the Yankees should be able to with Feliciano.
    —————-

    Yankees will probably do it when the Chavez signing becomes official.

  47. stuckey February 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    “The reports on Ibanez were that he’s lost a lot of bat speed”

    Wasn’t that the Jeter diagnosis too?

    Did he get better at “cheating” when he came off the DL?

  48. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    “Then Blake needs to pay closer attention. The cost for a young/good pitcher is way higher than it is for a young/good hitter (see the Latos and Gonzalez deals), and free agency tends to have a lot more good/great hitters in it as well.”

    The current price for elite young and proven hitters is unknown…..because nobody trades them….and as free agents they cost you 150+ million dollars

  49. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Chip, there goes your high end pitching depth if you trade Betances…
    —————-

    Not really – still have Banuelos, Campos and DePaula – all of whom are, like Betances, at least a year away from helping.

    The difference is that Betances is profiled by most “experts” as being a reliever. That’s what makes him the most expendable of the group.

  50. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Phelps and Mitchell and Noesi might develop into nice back of the rotation options. Pineda would have to fall pretty far to reach their level.
    _________
    Don’t underrate those three and conflate them all into back end pitchers. You might be surprised. Agree Pineda’s ceiling is higher, but he is not yet a given. Hopefully, we develop him properly. Looking forward to the ride.

  51. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    And the offense will be just as strong as it was last year – probably stronger if Alex can put together a healthy season.

    ———————–

    I think the concerns about the offense are more about 2013 and beyond. At some point it’s going to be Cano and the other
    ——————

    and now that the Yankees will have a young, cost controlled rotation for the next 6 years they can afford to focus their financial resources on the lineup. Also they can afford to use a high end pitching prospect like Betances to get a bat as well.
    ———————-

    But wasn’t the plan to grow the pitching? That was the idea. If they did a better job at that they could have retained Montero.

  52. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    “Wasn’t that the Jeter diagnosis too?”

    Jeter isn’t 40 and Ibanez isn’t a HOF caliber player…..

  53. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Phelps and Mitchell and Noesi might develop into nice back of the rotation options. Pineda would have to fall pretty far to reach their level.
    _________
    Don’t underrate those three and conflate them all into back end pitchers. You might be surprised. Agree Pineda’s ceiling is higher, but he is not yet a given. Hopefully, we develop him properly. Looking forward to the ride.
    —————

    If Pineda was heading to AAA I would be concerned, since I have very little faith in the Yankees ability to develop minor league pitching (another reason I’m in favor of this deal) but the fact that he’s going to be in the majors working with Rothschild (and to a lesser extent CC and Rivera) makes me a lot more confident that Pineda and Sabathia will form one of the best 1-2 combos in baseball for years.

  54. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    “Then Blake needs to pay closer attention. The cost for a young/good pitcher is way higher than it is for a young/good hitter (see the Latos and Gonzalez deals), and free agency tends to have a lot more good/great hitters in it as well.”

    The current price for elite young and proven hitters is unknown…..because nobody trades them….and as free agents they cost you 150+ million dollars

    ——————————

    Where as pitching has moved around more frequently. The Yankees could have had Haren. Yes he’s not extremely young but no one doubts how good he is.

  55. dogface February 21st, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    The difference is that Betances is profiled by most “experts” as being a reliever. That’s what makes him the most expendable of the group

    ========================================

    Uh oh, Chip. Here comes JA Prufrock’s rebuttal statement/harsh rebuke in 4, 3, 2, 1…….

  56. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:18 pm
    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Chip, there goes your high end pitching depth if you trade Betances…
    —————-

    Not really – still have Banuelos, Campos and DePaula – all of whom are, like Betances, at least a year away from helping.

    The difference is that Betances is profiled by most “experts” as being a reliever. That’s what makes him the most expendable of the group.
    ________
    Campos is more like three years away; he will start in low A. Banuelos perhaps one year if all goes well. DePaula hasn’t even pitched in live games for over a year. IF he gets his visa, and actually gets stateside this year, he will start in A ball; probably will need two or more years. So no guarantees there.

  57. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    He’s in the driver’s seat buddy just put the seat belt on and hope for a safe trip
    ///

    Yep. Hoping Alex can be free of injuries and have a vintage Alex season. We know the pitching will be good enough (I thought so before they made this stupid trade, but Pineda will obviously make it better).

    ——————————

    Yes Pineda should be a boost to the rotation. Let’s hope the second was just him getting tired down the stretch.

  58. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Chip, the Yankees right now do not consider Betances a reliever. Are you going to say the yankees are wrong?

    If they don’t trade him, they will give him every chance to start because it doesn’t make sense to relegate a high ceiling starter to the bullpen. A waste of resources.

  59. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    And the offense will be just as strong as it was last year – probably stronger if Alex can put together a healthy season.

    ———————–

    I think the concerns about the offense are more about 2013 and beyond. At some point it’s going to be Cano and the other
    ——————

    and now that the Yankees will have a young, cost controlled rotation for the next 6 years they can afford to focus their financial resources on the lineup. Also they can afford to use a high end pitching prospect like Betances to get a bat as well.
    ———————-

    But wasn’t the plan to grow the pitching? That was the idea. If they did a better job at that they could have retained Montero.
    ————————-

    You’re right and you’re wrong – they did a poor job with Hughes, Joba and Kennedy which is yet another reason why I don’t have a problem dealing Montero for Pineda – I don’t know that Betances or Banuelos will make the majors let alone as the elite pitchers they’re predicted to be.

    But even if Banuelos is only a good and not great LHP you’re still looking at a rotation of CC, Pineda, Nova, Banuelos and Hughes.

    When a team talks about developing this or developing that – they don’t always mean to play on their big league roster. Developing a surplus in one area allows you to address needs in another area.

    Assume the rotation I just gave you for 2013 – that means that the Yankees are in a position where they can use Warren, Phelps, Mitchell, Betances to address other needs – that’s the benefit to developing that much in one spot. None of those guys would be as good as Pineda, but they are good enough to get you a right fielder to replace Swisher (for example)

  60. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Chip, the Yankees right now do not consider Betances a reliever. Are you going to say the yankees are wrong?

    If they don’t trade him, they will give him every chance to start because it doesn’t make sense to relegate a high ceiling starter to the bullpen. A waste of resources.
    ———————

    I think the Yankees keep Betances in the rotation for much the same reason they kept playing Montero behind the plate – keeps his trade value at its peak.

  61. Erin February 21st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Any hockey fans, be on the lookout for some Yankees tonight. ;)

    PhilHughes65 Great workout today. @TBLightning game tonight with @ColinCurtis425 @CDickerson_PFTP and some other non tweeters #BetheThunder

  62. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    AAO – Pineda actually didn’t lose any velocity except in his very last start which could be looked at as an anomaly. He was on like 10 days rest or something like that.

    He actually pitched better and better as the year went on, going from an extreme flyball pitcher to a slightly ground-ball pitcher, really hammering down that slider of his while maintaining his nearly league leading K rate.

    He’s going to be so good…

  63. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    BryanV21 February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “According to blake that’s not the case”

    Then Blake needs to pay closer attention.

    ————————–

    He has…he’s ran through the scenarios more than once on this blog.

  64. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    The closest strikeout pitcher the Yankees have EVER had to Pineda is Roger Clemans and the brief RJ stint.

    They have never had, in their entire illustrious history, a pitcher finish a season with more strikeouts than IP.

    Pineda did that at 22.

  65. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    He’s going to be so good…

    ———————–

    Hopefully he is. It would be great to see. Thanks for clearing that up

  66. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    He has…he’s ran through the scenarios more than once on this blog.

    Any scenario’s running counter to blake’s have been run all over the place too. Not everyone agrees with his premise.

  67. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    None of those guys would be as good as Pineda, but they are good enough to get you a right fielder to replace Swisher (for example)

    ———————————-

    Hopefully that’s the case because I really don’t like the line-up going forward. If the left side of the infield was about 5 yrs younger than it wouldn’t be an issue.

  68. jackamir February 21st, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    I like this team! One to 25, it has a nice feel with plenty of options and depth. It has a 95 win season on paper potential. Now lets stay healthy and deliver New York an exciting season…..

  69. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    Its fine if people don’t agree…..but young good hitters aren’t being traded anymore…..they are being extended …..and hitters always cost more than pitchers on the open market.

    The players traded for Matt Latos wouldn’t come close to getting you a Justin Upton or McCutchen or somebody like that…..that is if their team would even trade them……which more and more they won’t.

  70. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    Ooooh, I got David Cone 1998 to pop out of the block game PI on BR, so there is one season….

  71. stuckey February 21st, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    “Jeter isn’t 40 and Ibanez isn’t a HOF caliber player…..”

    That doesn’t answer my question.

    Wasn’t that the Jeter diagnosis too? yes or no?

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:05 pm
    JAP -

    I know you believe Montero walks on water so I’m not going to fight with you over whether or not this was a good move or bad move – we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
    ///

    Chip, I don’t need the dialogue with you on this. Honestly, you addressed me on the topic, and I did not want to be rude.

    More generally speaking, folks who flatter themselves thinking they’ve got some inside scoop that “pitching is the key to the kingdom” really need to temper their own self-indulgence.

    The argument has never been that pitching is irrelevant, or unimportant.

    It has been that pitching was already a strength for the Yankees, that a signing of Kuroda would have been sufficient. The Yankees’ lineup needed Montero for reasons already cited: age, decline vs. RHP (especially power RHP in postseason, where you need a guy who can make good contact to break those close defensive games in your favor), two of the better hitters in their prime now both pushing their forties, other bats that may be younger but have platoon issues, etc.

    There’s an old saying “pitching is 75% of the game, good pitching stops good hitting, etc.”

    Of course these were all coined in the ’60s when the strike zone was from the armpits to the lower part of the knees, the mound was 15 inches high, no one had discovered steroids and your ace pitched every fourth day at least into the seventh inning and had 25 complete games.

    Give me a guy who will complete 25 out of 40 starts a year for five years and maybe I will agree concede aphorism holds water.

    As for Betances, he’s less than a year older than Pineda, who was pushed up to the majors with barely any AAA time. You can’t talk to me about him, Chip. You have no information on him other than what Jim Callis and Keith Law tell you, so I am happy to not discuss that with you, too.

  73. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Chip, Betances has a higher ceiling than the other 3. The Yankees will give him the chance to reach that ceiling. If they trade Betances, they dilute their high end pitching arsenal. If they trade Betances because he didn’t meet their expectations, then the Yankees won’t get back in a trade a hitter of the caliber that they just lost for Pineda. Subtracting Betances and Montero for Pineda and some lower rung hitter wouldn’t be a good deal for the Yankees. And that hitter would not be as good as Nick Swisher. Sorry.

  74. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    He has…he’s ran through the scenarios more than once on this blog.

    Any scenario’s running counter to blake’s have been run all over the place too. Not everyone agrees with his premise.

    ——————————

    Understood but the belief on the other side is pitching was extremely hard to get but I don’t think that was the case. It was hard for the Yankees to get it but not every other team had the same trouble.

  75. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    pitching is 75% of the game, good pitching stops good hitting, etc.”

    There is a reason people say those things.

    They are all true.

  76. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    None of those guys would be as good as Pineda, but they are good enough to get you a right fielder to replace Swisher (for example)

    ———————————-

    Hopefully that’s the case because I really don’t like the line-up going forward. If the left side of the infield was about 5 yrs younger than it wouldn’t be an issue.
    ———————–

    I’m sure it will sort itself out.

  77. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    “Wasn’t that the Jeter diagnosis too? yes or no?”

    By some….but some folks better adjust to that than others….

  78. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:26 pm
    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Chip, the Yankees right now do not consider Betances a reliever. Are you going to say the yankees are wrong?

    If they don’t trade him, they will give him every chance to start because it doesn’t make sense to relegate a high ceiling starter to the bullpen. A waste of resources.
    ———————

    I think the Yankees keep Betances in the rotation for much the same reason they kept playing Montero behind the plate – keeps his trade value at its peak.
    ____
    lol. Are you really going to disregard the value of developing a high ceiling starting pitcher and how hard that is to do with a player with the ceiling and pure stuff of Betances?

  79. stuckey February 21st, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    “It has been that pitching was already a strength for the Yankees, that a signing of Kuroda would have been sufficient. The Yankees’ lineup needed Montero for reasons already cited: age, decline vs. RHP (especially power RHP in postseason, where you need a guy who can make good contact to break those close defensive games in your favor), two of the better hitters in their prime now both pushing their forties, other bats that may be younger but have platoon issues, etc.”

    The problem with this argument continues to be the same. Even those most down on the Yankees offense argue the potential “problem” zone is more like 2013-2014.

    Which makes Kuroda’s sufficiency for 2012 irrelevant. Pineda wasn’t acquired as a 2012 fix. He was acquired at a long-term, cost-controlled rotation solution.

    If you want to argue the Yankees pitching was a lock to be postseason worthy in 2014 and beyond, then that’s fine. I may not agree, but at least it’s a consistent argument.

    But you cannot cite Montero as a long-term bat and Pineda as a short term arm. That’s at best intellectually inconsistent and at worst intellectually dishonest.

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    I think the Yankees keep Betances in the rotation for much the same reason they kept playing Montero behind the plate – keeps his trade value at its peak.
    ///

    HA???

    They may trade him, but what the hell are you talking about??? Nevermind, don’t answer.

  81. LGY February 21st, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    As long as KURODA pitches well, I don’t see why he has to be only a one year solution.

  82. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    should read: how hard that is to do, *we’ve rarely had* a pitcher with

  83. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    LGY, true. Go year to year.

  84. m February 21st, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....-camp-mlbv

    Teammates are awed by Pineda’s size and potential. Arod texted CC when the story brokeand asked him to call cuz he had news to share. :)

    It’s a pay article, but there’s plenty in the tease.

  85. GreenBeret7 February 21st, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:28 pm
    The closest strikeout pitcher the Yankees have EVER had to Pineda is Roger Clemans and the brief RJ stint.

    They have never had, in their entire illustrious history, a pitcher finish a season with more strikeouts than IP.

    Pineda did that at 22.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    What do you consider EVER? 20 years? 30 Years?

    Lefty Gomez…Allie Reynolds…Tommy Byrne….Bob Turley….Al Downing….Ron Guidry….

  86. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    stuckey, full disclosure: I donot read your posts any more. Nothing personal.

  87. Nick in SF February 21st, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    “How can you miss what you never possessed?”

    – Elvis Costello

  88. blake February 21st, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    I think they’ll keep Betances a starter until either he hits his upside or until he shows that he’s not going to as a starter. This is a big season for him…..he needs to take a step forward with his command and start going deeper into games……

  89. DONNYBROOK February 21st, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Bat speed, reflexes, whatever. If you insist on playing coroner, just describe the guy as DOA.

  90. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Prufrock – In a 162 game major league season, a top10 offense averages 6200 plate appearances. A Major league pitching staff will throw roughly 1450 innings over that same 162 game season.

    Top 25 batters in plate appearances averaged 690 PA last year, so a single 690PA hitter counts for roughly 11.1% of a team total offensive chances over a full year. Keep in mind that this are mostly leadoff and 2 hitters, not 3-4-5-6 hitters.

    Top 25 pitchers in IP averaged 225 IP last year, so a single 225IP pitcher counts for roughly 15.5% of the teams total innings for that season.

    When people say pitching is “more important” or has “more impact” in winning baseball games than hitting, there are plenty of other reasons why. This would be the simplest of them.

    Is it more likely that Pineda pitches 200innings this year, or that Montero reaches 690 PA?

  91. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Chip, Betances has a higher ceiling than the other 3. The Yankees will give him the chance to reach that ceiling. If they trade Betances, they dilute their high end pitching arsenal. If they trade Betances because he didn’t meet their expectations, then the Yankees won’t get back in a trade a hitter of the caliber that they just lost for Pineda. Subtracting Betances and Montero for Pineda and some lower rung hitter wouldn’t be a good deal for the Yankees. And that hitter would not be as good as Nick Swisher. Sorry.
    ————————-

    First, let’s back up and agree that we’re getting ahead of ourselves – both of us.

    Second, a lot will depend on a) how these players (Betances and Banuelos) develop, b) what Phil Hughes does and c) what the needs of the team will be.

    Could the Yankees end up keeping Betances and dealing off someone else – of course they could.

    But the points I was making were:

    1. Saying the Yankees don’t need Pineda because they have Betances is laughable when they are the same age and one is already a successful major league starter while the other is just entering his first full year at AAA.

    2. The presence of Pineda allows the Yankees to use a player “like” Betances down the road in a trade to address other issues.

    I believe Montero will develop into a strong major league bat – not an elite guy like Miguel Cabrera necessarily, but on that second tier like Carlos Lee maybe. But the fact remains that he didn’t fit with the long-term needs of this team. He wasn’t going to catch and because of the structure of the team they couldn’t have him at DH. So they moved him for an equally high end talent.

    If a year from now the Yankees need a high end bat, and Betances is developing the way you hope he will – but the rotation is set with CC, Nova, Pineda, Hughes and Banuelos – then the Yankees can use that “6th Starter” to get the bat they need – a Mike Stanton, Justin Upton Type of player….that’s all I’m saying.

  92. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    LGY, true. Go year to year.

    ————————–

    Wouldn’t that be one less spot for their young pitchers?

  93. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    BryanV21 February 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “According to blake that’s not the case”

    Then Blake needs to pay closer attention.
    ____
    Not exactly.

  94. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    AAO, depends on who’s ready; agree we don’t want to block anyone, but that is why year to year would work. It’ll also be interesting to see who is still around by this time next season. You know we love to go with those vets, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

  95. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Nick in SF February 21st, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    “How can you miss what you never possessed?”

    – Elvis Costello
    ///

    :D

    It’s knowing that the Mariners know him now, after only guessing….

  96. ET February 21st, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    The problem isn’t Pineda. I don’t think anyone has a problem with the player for player value that we received in the deal

    The issue is trading away a Miguel Cabrera-type bat 20 years old when we had no reason to.

    We were the best team in the AL East without him. As we see, playoffs are a complete crapshoot so as long as we assembled a team good enough to go to Oct, there was nothing else we could do to ensure success.

    The lineup is old, aging, and got shut down last year. Guys are not getting younger, there is nothing on the farm coming that can be as good as Montero. Nobody on the team could hit the power righties of Detroit. An old team with only 1 guy under 30 will do that for you.

    The trade was unncessary and it will prove itself in the next couple of years as Cashman tries to acquire a bat half as talented as Montero or search the trade market every year for Carlos Lee types.

  97. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    GB7 – I actually don’t know why those seasons didn’t come up on the play index thing when I did it. I thought I left enough room to wiggle them around, they block off the top 10 on the list unless you pay :(

  98. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    AAO, depends on who’s ready; agree we don’t want to block anyone, but that is why year to year would work. It’ll also be interesting to see who is still around by this time next season. You know we love to go with those vets, especially on the offensive side of the ball.
    ————–

    Frankly I’m rooting for David Wright at 3b with Alex making the full time shift to DH.

  99. m February 21st, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    You can argue against trading away Montero. But there’s no argument that getting Pineda was anything but a great move. Almost everyone loved this trade for the Yankees. Speaking out against Pineda and his potential to help, really help, the Yankees or saying he was not necessary or a good move doesn’t help your argument.

  100. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    ET – The issue is trading away a Miguel Cabrera-type bat 20 years old when we had no reason to.

    No, this is the problem. You assume he’s Miguel Cabrera but you don’t assume Pineda is Roger Clemans.

  101. Benny Blanco February 21st, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    With all this fuss over what’s best for pineda’s talents reminds me of Good Will Hunting. :)

  102. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    then the Yankees can use that “6th Starter” to get the bat they need – a Mike Stanton, Justin Upton Type of player….that’s all I’m saying.
    _____
    You are not going to get Stanton or Justin Upton for Betances.

  103. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    ET -

    The issue is that Montero didn’t fit this team.

    They weren’t going to catch him, they couldn’t put him at DH because of the composition of the rest of the roster.

    Also – and I don’t mean this to be a slam on Montero but more a tempering of the expectations for him – when you compare him to Miggy Cabrera remember that at the same age Cabrera was already an MVP candidate in the majors while Montero was repeating AAA. And it’s not as if he was dominating AAA either.

  104. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    ET February 21st, 2012 at 2:51 pm
    The problem isn’t Pineda. I don’t think anyone has a problem with the player for player value that we received in the deal

    The issue is trading away a Miguel Cabrera-type bat 20 years old when we had no reason to.
    ///

    Um, yeah. Right, that’s what it’s been all along. This other stuff is just deliberately misunderstood so the morality play can go on and on and on and on…

    I’m looking forward to watching Pineda pitch. He’s here, isn’t he? :D

  105. Duh Innings February 21st, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    djsunyc February 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    with the drop off in DH presence this year, i think we really need to explore batting gardner leadoff.

    gardner
    jeter
    cano
    arod
    granderson
    tex
    swisher
    DH
    martin
    ————————–

    The batting order I’ve been posting on here for awhile as Teixiera does not hit for high enough average to bat fifth/protect A-Rod, although I would definitely have him switch places with Granderson if he hits say .270 or better. Granderson doesn’t hit for average either, but he hits better than Teixiera and as far as last year goes is just as dangerous as Teixiera if not more because he has speed and stolen base ability, unlike Teixiera.

    The 8th slot will most likely be Ibanez DH vs.RHP and Jones the RF vs.LHP (Swisher DH.)

  106. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    then the Yankees can use that “6th Starter” to get the bat they need – a Mike Stanton, Justin Upton Type of player….that’s all I’m saying.
    _____
    You are not going to get Stanton or Justin Upton for Betances.
    ——————-

    I know. I meant that type of player but a few years earlier in his career…using names is better than saying “Promising OF’er X”

  107. Nick in SF February 21st, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.

  108. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    m, who is your post addressed to?

  109. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    AAO, depends on who’s ready; agree we don’t want to block anyone, but that is why year to year would work. It’ll also be interesting to see who is still around by this time next season. You know we love to go with those vets, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

    —————————————————

    Yea you’re right about that.

  110. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Why would the DH effect the top of the lineup? When was the last time the Yankee DH batted in the top 4? Giambi?

  111. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    then the Yankees can use that “6th Starter” to get the bat they need – a Mike Stanton, Justin Upton Type of player….that’s all I’m saying.
    _____
    You are not going to get Stanton or Justin Upton for Betances.
    ///

    Gotta run, but hell no. You’re going to have to put together a similar package that was apparently out there to reel in King Felix (one I would not have done, btw, as the Yankees), and that was even rejected.

    Without looking at what the D-backs might need, just in terms of upside, you’d probably have to give up Betances, plus Williams, plus maybe Sanchez, plus J-Ram and/or Campos, maybe Bichette, plus…

  112. stuckey February 21st, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    “stuckey, full disclosure: I donot read your posts any more. Nothing personal.”

    Whether this is true or not, no offense taken in either case.

  113. stuckey February 21st, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    “As long as KURODA pitches well, I don’t see why he has to be only a one year solution.”

    LGY, fair enough, but then shouldn’t be be subject to the same age/decline projection concern at the heart of the aging line-up premise?

    And his cost relative to the 2014 payroll goal factored in as well?

  114. GreenBeret7 February 21st, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    BryanHoch Bryan Hoch
    RHP George Kontos is first injury of #Yankees camp; discomfort in oblique while throwing bullpen. Girardi said he’ll be out a couple weeks.

  115. munson15 February 21st, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    I love seeing these spring training pics. I’m turning 50 this year, but every year when spring training starts, I feel like I’m 10 years old. Love this time of year.

  116. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Kuroda is here for a shot at a ring, and the honor of pitching on the biggest stage for the most popular team on the planet. I wouldn’t be too concerned aboutmultiple seasons out of him… and he certainly wouldn’t “hold anyone back”.

    If the B’s are not ready to come up next year I could see them bringing him back though, obviously a lot of that hinges on his success here this season.

  117. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    “You can argue against trading away Montero. But there’s no argument that getting Pineda was anything but a great move”

    I wish they coukd have gotten Pineda AND kept Montero…..yes I want my cake and eat it too.

  118. Duh Innings February 21st, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 1:46 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Ibanez is left-handed, so he’ll probably hit some HRs in the Stadium.

    From Montero to Ibanez……

    —————————————

    From a young potential to another old guy.
    ////

    Odds, someone take those keys away from Cashman, quick.

    ————————————————————————————–

    You mean from Burnett still with the Yankees and most likely driving Hughes and Garcia to the pen (which eliminates the possibility of a second lefty and lefty insurance if Logan sucks or gets injured), Montero who has 60 or so MLB at-bats, and no clearcut primary DH option to this:

    - Pineda the only potential ace or #2 among AL starting pitchers under 30 and one of a handful in MLB making peanuts in his sophomore year (around $450K?) under the Yanks control for five years.

    - Hughes and Garcia battling for the fifth starter job (which is great because we’ll get to see what Hughes is made of.)

    - Ibanez who posted 20 HR and 84 RBI last season and has driven in 80+ runs a year for the past seven years at a cost of only $1.1M base this season, $12M < the cost of 2011 Posada who was nowhere close to being worth $13.1M he was paid.

  119. Crawdaddy February 21st, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Reading this thread is like watching the film Groundhog.

  120. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    thats a shame, i like kontos i saw him pitch a gem a couple years ago in trenton. it was nice to see him get a promotion to the bronx and get in a few games, i hope he’s ok and makes it back up.

  121. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Crawdaddy – Seriously, I feel like I slipped and bumped my head, woke up in the last week of January.

  122. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Chip February 21st, 2012 at 2:54 pm
    ET -

    The issue is that Montero didn’t fit this team.

    They weren’t going to catch him, they couldn’t put him at DH because of the composition of the rest of the roster.

    Also – and I don’t mean this to be a slam on Montero but more a tempering of the expectations for him – when you compare him to Miggy Cabrera remember that at the same age Cabrera was already an MVP candidate in the majors while Montero was repeating AAA. And it’s not as if he was dominating AAA either.
    ___
    I didn’t compare him to Miggy, the “experts” did, but I have seen him hit for 5 years and I have very high expectations for him. He has a special bat; how doesn’t that bat fit?

    As for DH, the Yankees are devaluing its importance to the lineup; you don’t leave it open and not working at its optimum to “rest” players. So, I categorically don’t agree. And if Montero didn’t catch for us, his special bat would not lose much value at DH IF the bat played as many expected it to. Again, don’t want to rehash, what is the point? But if you are going to address these issues, then I have no choice.

  123. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    The issue is that Montero didn’t fit this team.
    ///

    No. A hitter that good always fits team. There is no “lack of fit” for a hitter like that. If he doesn’t “fit” they need to change the management team to one that has a less narrow idea of what does and does not “fit.”

  124. Patrick February 21st, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Kuroda will be the second best starter on this team this season, in my opinion. He is an excellent pitcher

  125. LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    LGY, fair enough, but then shouldn’t be be subject to the same age/decline projection concern at the heart of the aging line-up premise?

    And his cost relative to the 2014 payroll goal factored in as well?

    ———-

    I don’t really get concerned with players until they actually start to show some decline, especially pitchers who in my completely unresearched opinion can sustain performance into their late 30s better than hitters.

    2014, I would say cross that bridge when we get to it since KURODA is very content going year to year.

  126. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    There is no “lack of fit” for a hitter like that.

    Except, apparently you are wrong.

  127. J. Alfred Prufrock February 21st, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    All of you anti-Montero keep promulgating your manifesto at the mention of the guy’s name.

    No one agreed to be bullied by you and not to utter that name.

    The mere mention of it and you are galvanized into action. Even Cashman likely has more stomach to hear the guy’s name mentioned.

    Later.

  128. munson15 February 21st, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Crawdaddy, I’m with you on that one.

  129. Hassey February 21st, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    More impotantly, what eye candy did we get to replace Kim Jones behind the plate? Her splits looked great to me…

  130. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Crawdaddy February 21st, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    Reading this thread is like watching the film Groundhog.

    Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:06 pm
    Crawdaddy – Seriously, I feel like I slipped and bumped my head, woke up in the last week of January.
    _____
    Kind of like last offseason with all the Jeter bashing.

  131. m February 21st, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    YF,

    No one specifically. I’ve just seen a lot of we don’t even need him kind of posts. How can you argue that you don’t need a Pineda? That’s like saying you don’t need your left arm if you’re a right handed person.

    It’s true. You could do without that other arm. But it sure makes life easier having it.

  132. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    I take the responsibility for this – all I did was say that the lineup didn’t exchange Montero for Ibanez, that it exchanged Posada for Ibanez….

    sigh….

  133. LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    I would also point out the Yankees have the young pitching talent and depth to guard against KURODA declining in future years.

    With Montero gone, can’t say the same about the offense.

  134. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    “Kuroda will be the second best starter on this team this season, in my opinion. He is an excellent pitcher”

    Probably

  135. Duh Innings February 21st, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Anyone read today’s NY Post? 2012 could be Mo’s final season. It sure reads like that from what he said in the article. I predict he will have another 35 or more saves, ERA under 2 season then retire on top.

    How funny would it be if Soriano opted out after this season thinking he had leverage on the Yanks to re-sign him to a big contract and Mo re-signed for one more year after that? I doubt Soriano would be that stupid but one can always dream haha.

    Why don’t the Yanks shop Soriano? Spare me “He could be Mo’s successor.” I would hand the closing reigns to Wade, Logan, or even Chamberlain before I hand them to two-cent head Soriano, besides that Robertson would be my first in-house choice.

    All kidding aside, ‘say Mo retires after this season. Would you make Robertson the closer or have him and Chamberlain share closing duties? I would go with the latter so teams get different looks in the ninth. A dual closer worked for the ’86 Mets (Orosco-McDowell.) Also it would take less pressure off both guys and both guys could be eased into the full-time closer role depending on which one ultimately became that. It would be a friendly competition for the 2014 closer job and they’d be competing with any impending free-agent closer who’d be available after ’13. Something to think about.

    If Robertson and Chamberlain dual-closed in 2013, I hereby name them “Roba” LOL.

  136. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Patrick February 21st, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Kuroda will be the second best starter on this team this season, in my opinion. He is an excellent pitcher
    ——————

    Hopefully that is a good thing and doesn’t mean that Nova and/or Pineda fall on their faces.

    I still don’t think you’re looking at him as more than a 1 year rental based purely on the fact that he’s 135 years old.

  137. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    I would also point out the Yankees have the young pitching talent and depth to guard against KURODA declining in future years.

    ———————-

    Hopefully the Yankees won’t need Kuroda for future years. Or Freddy Garcia for that matter.

  138. dogface February 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    The issue is that Montero didn’t fit this team.

    ==========================

    I don’t believe this to be the case, but if it is that is a significant failure of management. No way a talent like that shouldn’t fit on any team.

  139. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    “More impotantly, what eye candy did we get to replace Kim Jones behind the plate? Her splits looked great to me…”
    ======================================
    i think that’s why kim left. not only did she not really fit in a baseball environment, but YES only saw her as eye candy. She’s going back to football where she belongs.

  140. LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Chip

    KURODA is 37. He’s going to be the new Andy Pettitte for the Yankees version right handed.

  141. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    i want to say something but im going to stick with the montero moratorium.

  142. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Bad teams force talented players into lineups. Good teams find players that fit them.

  143. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    dogface February 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    The issue is that Montero didn’t fit this team.

    ==========================

    I don’t believe this to be the case, but if it is that is a significant failure of management. No way a talent like that shouldn’t fit on any team.
    —————————-

    First thing’s first – let’s agree that you have to trade talent to get talent so to get a pitcher like Pineda you’re going to have to give up something that hurts. Yes?

    Second – I believe some of the mythic status of Montero is due to the Yankees being very good at hyping their own players. I don’t think anyone questions that Montero is going to have a good major league bat – but I think that if the Yankees believed they were sitting on another Miguel Cabrera or Albert Pujols they:

    a) wouldn’t have traded him
    b) wouldn’t have left him dithering in the minors when Russ Martin got hurt mid season
    c) would have found another position for him to play rather than keeping him at catcher where the only benefit was obviously to keep his trade value high.

  144. LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Good grief. Russell Martin is a serial BSOHL.

    His trainer claims he’s “ripped and powerful” and in the “best shape of his life”

  145. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    The two most important positions in baseball are….#1 starter and dominant hitter…..

  146. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Chip

    KURODA is 37. He’s going to be the new Andy Pettitte for the Yankees version right handed.
    ———————

    In my opinion lefties can age like a fine wine – righties age like David Cone – which is to say rapidly.

  147. Patrick February 21st, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Whether you like the Pineda trade or not is highly dependent on how much stock you put on what scouts say about the two big players in the deal (Montero and Pineda). Looking at just stats indicates that this trade is even, maybe a win for the Yankees.

    But if you put stock in scouting reports and what baseball experts observe on both players it is a definite loss for the Yankees. Montero projects to be a generational type of hitter in the mold of, yes, Miguel Cabrera. Pineda is a lottery ticket, even Cashman acknowledges this. It could turn out well for the Yankees but keeping Montero would have been much less risky and potentially more rewarding.

    Anyways, this conversation is so played out by now i’m not even sure why it’s in this thread…

  148. stuckey February 21st, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    “I would also point out the Yankees have the young pitching talent and depth to guard against KURODA declining in future years.”

    Perhaps, but as Rich in NJ likes to point out (and very astutely so) there is nothing more fragile than pitching.

    I’d add an additional qualifier to that – there is nothing more fragile than YOUNG pitching.

    And here’s a new question – what’s the most important factor in postseason pitching? Depth or ceiling at the top?

  149. Chip February 21st, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Good grief. Russell Martin is a serial BSOHL.

    His trainer claims he’s “ripped and powerful” and in the “best shape of his life”
    ————-

    Gabe Kapler was always ripped too – didn’t mean he could hit his way out of a paper bag.

    Yadier Molina or Miguel Montero on the Yankees next year.

  150. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “Yadier Molina or Miguel Montero on the Yankees next year.”

    Fake Montero > real Molina!

  151. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    blake – The two most important positions in baseball are….#1 starter and dominant hitter…..

    Ahh, if life were only actually that simple.

  152. stuckey February 21st, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    “The two most important positions in baseball are….#1 starter and dominant hitter….”

    I tend to speculate the NY Yankees are projecting an immediate future with at least two #1 starters.

    Consider how that might play in a short PS series?

  153. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Pineda is a lottery ticket, even Cashman acknowledges this.

    He also acknowledges that Montero still needed more work, even his bat. Something no one here does.

  154. ron February 21st, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    If montero hits .280/26 hr/85 rbi,while playing ok as a catcher,and pineda goes 18-6 with a 3.5 era,40 less hits than innings pitched,1.19 whip,and his changeup improves greatly,all the montero talk goes away.

    We just don’t know what will happen,or who wins in this trade yet,regardless of how many people think we need a young,great hitter in our lineup.

    Not long ago,we had an old lineup,and turned it over quite nicely.
    I remember all the doom & gloom about how to fix it,with no end in sight.

    Gardner,cano,granderson,swisher,tex,problem solved.
    Trying to predict every second of the future is impossible.

  155. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Ahh, if life were only actually that simple.”

    It is that simple….what’s not simple is getting those things.

  156. dogface February 21st, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Chip:

    Not saying I’m for or against the trade, just shooting down the notion that Montero was traded because he did not fit the team. That’s just stupid.

  157. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    blake – I don’t even agree that “dominant hitter” qualifies as a baseball position…

  158. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    “Consider how that might play in a short PS series?”

    Good if that’s the case…

  159. LGY February 21st, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    And here’s a new question – what’s the most important factor in postseason pitching? Depth or ceiling at the top?

    ——–

    Obviously ceiling at the top but how is that relevant to me saying KURODA shouldn’t just be a one year solution if he pitches well?

  160. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    “Anyways, this conversation is so played out by now i’m not even sure why it’s in this thread…”
    ===========================

    this is absolutely the case, one guy is gone and the other is in our rotation. i dont mind that much talking about pineda but i’m done talking about montero for a long time to come. he’s gone and i wish him well against the angels red socks, tigers, rays and rangers and bad luck against us. other than that i dont care about the guy.

    that’s why i’ve gone to a montero moratorium and a trade moratorium and i invite others to join me by all means.

  161. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    just shooting down the notion that Montero was traded because he did not fit the team. That’s just stupid.

    Yet, he is gone and they didn’t sign a permanent DH.

    Connect the dots.

  162. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    “blake – I don’t even agree that “dominant hitter” qualifies as a baseball position…”

    Yup….it means id they hit like Miguel Cabrera then it doesn’t matter where they play.

  163. dogface February 21st, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    I tend to speculate the NY Yankees are projecting an immediate future with at least two #1 starters

    ==============================

    Projecting an immediate future?

  164. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Manny Ramirez played “dominant hitter” position for a long time…..even though he “played ” LF…..hardly any of his value was related to that.

  165. Patrick February 21st, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    He also acknowledges that Montero still needed more work, even his bat. Something no one here does.

    Cashman still believes Montero can catch and just traded him away for “a dream”, sorry but I don’t really trust his evaluation of Montero

  166. Against All Odds February 21st, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Not long ago,we had an old lineup,and turned it over quite nicely.

    ——————————————

    How long ago are we talking about? During the days sheff was still on the team we had a young Cano, Jeter and A-rod were closer to their prime, Matsui was in his early 30′s, etc

  167. Irreverent Discourse February 21st, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    blake – OK, but if I was constructing a baseball team, that “position” would not be filled in the first 2 players. SP1, SP2, CF, SS, C would all be considerations I would make before worrying about having a hitter that plays “anywhere” which in reality is just code for playing “no-where”.

  168. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    dogface February 21st, 2012 at 3:29 pm
    Chip:

    Not saying I’m for or against the trade, just shooting down the notion that Montero was traded because he did not fit the team. That’s just stupid.
    ___
    Um, yeah.

  169. yankeefeminista February 21st, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Chad, any video of pitchers and catchers?

  170. blake February 21st, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    ID,

    No…I mean that the best hitters are the most valuable and toughest things to acquire…..

  171. dogface February 21st, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Yet, he is gone and they didn’t sign a permanent DH.

    Connect the dots.

    ==========================

    I connect ‘em to Cashman feeling as though he didn’t have enough quality starting pitching.

  172. Patrick February 21st, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    No such thing as a “dominant hitter” position?

    Edgar Martinez, Miguel Cabrera, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Frank Thomas, Prince Fielder, 2011 Lance Berkman, Jason Giambi, Ryan Braun…

  173. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    i actually wonder how many people on this blog today even have watched pineda in a full start.

    until i watched him last night in the september 3rd game that yankeefeminista suggested i really had only a glimpse of him.

    this is a different game but watch this video and watch where his right foot lands:

    it’s a few feet behind where his left foot lands.

    to me this looks bad.

  174. austinmac February 21st, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Blake,

    I hope you know I always appreciate your posts, but Long says he has the bat speed. I say, let’s hope he is right. Too late to undue what is done despite most of our wishes they had spent a bit more to get Damon.

    It is spring and hope is eternal even for forty year olds.

  175. SoS February 21st, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Over under on the new blood fellas.

    1. Kuroda 15 wins
    2. Kuroda 4 era
    3. Pineda 15 wins
    4. Pineda 4 era
    5. Ibanez 265 batting avg
    6. Ibanez 16 homeruns
    7. Ibanez still a Yank after trade deadline.
    8. Chavez goes on the dl 1x this season
    9. Jones has 11 homeruns
    10. Who out of these players are not still a Yankee by seasons end?

  176. austinmac February 21st, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    RAndy,

    Are you telling us the last month of diatribe against Pineda was based upon a “glimpse”?

    I watched him pitch a couple times and his stuff was wow. Do you not find the stat that no Yankee pitcher(presumably ERA qualifier) has ever had more than one strike out an inning for a season, but Pineda did it at 22?

  177. SoS February 21st, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    11. Pinedas weight by season end 270

  178. SoS February 21st, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Manny Ramirez was the best Left fielding cutoff guy in the history of the game.

  179. austinmac February 21st, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    I asked a number of days ago what people’s predictions were for Montero this year. Curiously, despite him being named a generational hitter, no one, that I saw, predicted 30 HRs, 100 RBIs or a .300 average.

    Anyone else want to make a forecast?

  180. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    notice where sabathia’s left foot lands .

    totally in front of his plant foot.

    pineda is two feet behind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfrscEwU-iM

  181. randy l. February 21st, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    here’s the pineda link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

  182. Ys Guy February 21st, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    sos was it manny being a great cutoff outfield guy or damon being a great outfield relay guy?

  183. Jerkface February 21st, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    Austinmac,

    I think Jesus will hit .280-.300 with 25-30 HRs this year. There you go. RBIs may be an issue as he will have Ichiro and Figgins batting infront of him. Hardly anyone is going to be on base.

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