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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Built to last

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 23, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

I went to dinner with a few other beat writers last night. We were laughing about the fact Mariano Rivera showed up on Monday, refused to say whether he’s going retire at the end of the season, and we’ve all been writing about it for three days now.

That’s life in Yankees camp this spring. Rivera is a fascinating subject, and the fact he would even hint at retirement — and let me be clear, I walked away from that interview absolutely convinced this is his last year — is probably the most interesting thing that’s happened these past few days. It’s way too early to know anything about the fifth starter competition, nearly the entire roster is settled (barring injury) and there’s just not much drama going on so far.

I’m sure that will change, but right now, the spring is a lot like the winter. Quiet.

Another reason the Rivera story has lingered: There’s a very real appreciation for all he’s done and what he’s meant. As Bob Nightengale wrote for USA Today, closers don’t last in the big leagues. Rivera is the only current closer to hold his job for more than four full seasons with his current team, and there are only three others who have had the job for at least two seasons.

In a job with such radical turnover, Rivera’s been brilliant since 1997. Amazing.

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90 Responses to “Built to last”

  1. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 9:03 am

    “Amazing”

    Truly amazing…..which is why when Randy asked yesterday which was more valuable…..a closer or a #3 starter?……unless the closer is Mariano himself its always the starter.

  2. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 9:07 am

    “in short , pineda’s biggest hurdle may simply be who is coaching him from this point on. pat m may not be seeing that the way i see it. that might be where our different opinion of pineda’s future lies.”

    Rothschild is pretty good…..maybe if he was around 4 years ago Joba would still be a starter? I think pitching and hitting coaches are overrated in general…..but the very best ones can make a difference ……and Im hopeful Larry is one of those guys…..

  3. Tackelberry February 23rd, 2012 at 9:09 am

    I beleive MO is also the only remaining active player wearing uniform number 42. It wa retired universally around baseball in honor of Jackie Robinson a few years ago except for current players still wearing it. So when MO goes, so does the last number 42

  4. dogface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:09 am

    In a job with such radical turnover, Rivera’s been brilliant since 1997. Amazing

    =======================================

    That is really is the amazing part of it. Over the years, plenty of closers have had seasons as good or better than Rivera’s best, but nobody is in the same stratosphere in terms of being consistently outstanding in the closer’s role (or any relief role for that matter) for such an extended period of time. I don’t think anyone has done it for even half the amount of time Rivera has. Truly special.

  5. pat February 23rd, 2012 at 9:10 am

    “You reap what you sow.”

    He has sown being accomodating to teammates and hardworking.

  6. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:12 am

    “We’ll just have to wait and see how this trade works out for both Pineda and Montero. I respect your opinion, but for me, it’s time to move onto something else.”

    yankee trader-

    why in the wrld would we want to move on from pineda who the yankees have bet will become their co ace or at worst a solid #2 behind sabathia.

    pineda is the biggest story of the spring for the yankees.

    i ,for one, a just touching the surface of learning about the guy.

    pineda is going to be a focus for a long time just like hughe and joba were.
    and it’s probably going to be a roller coaster ride from highs to lows just like with joba and hughes.

    i do not expect all of a sudden for the yankees to have figured out how to develop a young guy while balancing winning and learning how to pitch.

    hughes and joba and kennedy were annihilated with the process at times and i expect pineda to be no different.

    i also expect some times when it will seem he is doing great, just like with hughes, wang, joba, and kennedy.

  7. Erin February 23rd, 2012 at 9:16 am

    At this point, I think everybody thinks that this year will be it for Mo.

    I can’t even wrap my head around it yet. I think I’ll be in denial until it actually happens. ;)

  8. Bronx Jeers February 23rd, 2012 at 9:17 am

    I’m not a religious man by any means but I thank God for Mariano Rivera.

  9. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:19 am

    “Rothschild is pretty good…..maybe if he was around 4 years ago Joba would still be a starter? I think pitching and hitting coaches are overrated in general…..but the very best ones can make a difference ……and Im hopeful Larry is one of those guys…..”

    blake-

    i agree he seems pretty good . he stopped the bleeding with burnett last year . yankee pitching was pretty good under him.

    but i don’t see him producing any young guys and i don’t see a strong philosophy there that makes me think he overrides overall yankee pitching philosophy .

    i know this is a hard thing for some people to wrap their brains around , but there is one guy in charge ultimately of yankee pitching development and that would be brian cashman.

    brian really may have no clue with developing pitching.
    that’s a little problem when he’s in charge.

    i think cashman does better when he buys pitching developed somewhere else.

    it’s like if he was going to have thanksgiving dinner at his house, instead of cooking himself, he really should just go to whole foods and buy everything ready made just waiting too be warmed up.

  10. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:21 am

    mariano transcends all that is around him.

    he sets the standard for everyone else.

    he really should have been in a higher league.

  11. scuzzles February 23rd, 2012 at 9:22 am

    I just cant get excited about this team this year. Its pretty much the same chokers as last year and they lost Montero. They upgraded pitching a bit but Kuroda isnt proven in the AL East. And Pineda has alot to prove for his worth. Losing Burnett was probably the best thing they did but I was expecting a better off season, for instance trading one of our post season choke artists. And Chavez and Ibanez doesnt get me the least bit excited. Proven players like Damon or Godzilla would have.

  12. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 9:23 am

    randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:12 am

    “We’ll just have to wait and see how this trade works out for both Pineda and Montero. I respect your opinion, but for me, it’s time to move onto something else.”

    yankee trader-

    why in the wrld would we want to move on from pineda who the yankees have bet will become their co ace or at worst a solid #2 behind sabathia.

    pineda is the biggest story of the spring for the yankees.

    ——————————–

    I actually agree with you randy.. and of course no offense to Trader, who I understand is tired of hearing the same circular conversation, but this trade was the biggest story in Yankee-land for the off season and we’re now at the point where the ‘I told you so’s!’ are about to start from one side or the other lol. And then by July, we’ll get to rehash it again with more ‘I told you so’s!’, perhaps from the opposite side.

    I’d argue Pineda is not just the story of the spring, but the story of the year for the Yankees.

  13. Erin February 23rd, 2012 at 9:24 am

    BryanHoch Eric Chavez has arrived at Yankees camp

  14. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 9:26 am

    scuzzles February 23rd, 2012 at 9:22 am
    I just cant get excited about this team this year. Its pretty much the same chokers as last year and they lost Montero. They upgraded pitching a bit but Kuroda isnt proven in the AL East. And Pineda has alot to prove for his worth. Losing Burnett was probably the best thing they did but I was expecting a better off season, for instance trading one of our post season choke artists. And Chavez and Ibanez doesnt get me the least bit excited. Proven players like Damon or Godzilla would have.

    __

    You can always go cheer for the Rays or Sox who basically have the same group of ‘chokers’ as last year also, except the Rays are without Damon and Boston is without a RF, #4, #5, Papelbon, Bard in the pen, SS, etc…..

  15. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:28 am

    I’d argue Pineda is not just the story of the spring, but the story of the year for the Yankees.

    I’ve got some good ‘I told you so’s’ ready in my clipboard for easy ctrl-v work every time Montero hits a HR, I know some people object to re-typing around here.

  16. Doc Iac February 23rd, 2012 at 9:30 am

    scuzzles February 23rd, 2012 at 9:22 am
    I just cant get excited about this team this year. Its pretty much the same chokers as last year and they lost Montero. They upgraded pitching a bit but Kuroda isnt proven in the AL East. And Pineda has alot to prove for his worth. Losing Burnett was probably the best thing they did but I was expecting a better off season, for instance trading one of our post season choke artists. And Chavez and Ibanez doesnt get me the least bit excited. Proven players like Damon or Godzilla would have.

    —-

    they were one hit away from advancing…do u watch the whole season? i wouldnt call the team chokers…

  17. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:30 am

    Bard in the rotation is going to be a hoot

  18. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Lol Jerkface, at least you’re coming prepared.

    I just hate when people try to say that a topic is burnt out or tired on this blog… the Pineda trade will be discussed for years because we signed him to be a key factor in our rotation for years.

  19. Tackelberry February 23rd, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Can you imagine the backlash on these boards if Montero comes out of the gate flying and Pineda struggles at the beginning? UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Bronx Jeers February 23rd, 2012 at 9:35 am

    Pineda’s more than a frozen turkey. He’s par cooked and only needs like another hour in the oven.

    Sure Cash has sent most of his dinner guests home running for the toilet but Thanksgiving comes every November. And whether we like it or not he’s the one currently running the kitchen.

    The good news, Randy, is that this could be his last turkey. He sold the golden goose to get it so I think if he screws this one up the yanks will be looking for a new chef.

  21. upstate kate February 23rd, 2012 at 9:36 am

    But why is it necessary to have the “I told you so”s???
    I would guess most people were not in favor of the trade to begin with, but are trying to see the silver lining and attempting to understand why the trade happened.
    And I mean realistic explanations, not conspiracy theories such as Cashman didn’t know what he had/ Girardi was threatened by an offensive C/Montero had an attitude problem.
    Cashman has said all along he wanted to improve the pitching staff.

  22. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 9:36 am

    To Chad’s last story – about the last spot on the roster. I believe it will be Cabral who gets the first shot simply because not taking him means losing him as an option at all and also he probably has the highest upside of the group and I think given their druthers the Yankees would rather have two lefties in the pen. The other Rule 5 pick, Meyers, has this in his favor too – but Cashman was pretty up front with the fact that they were looking at him as a long relief option which now won’t be needed because of the extra starter.

    All that being said – I like the group of vets that the Yankees have on minor league deals (both pitchers and hitters) and could see Rapada, O’Connor and Delcarmen all pitching in the bigs this year.

  23. CompassRosy February 23rd, 2012 at 9:37 am

    “I’m hoping that Russell Branyan gives Ibanez a run for a spot”

    ~

    YT ~

    It just struck me…
    Branyan, Ibanez, Aardsma, Pineda…
    That may just be the largest contingent of ex-M’s ever assembled in a single off-season ;)
    (given age, injury, etc., their talent/worth is all over the map but, by all accounts, all great guys)

  24. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:37 am

    “I actually agree with you randy.. and of course no offense to Trader, who I understand is tired of hearing the same circular conversation,”

    shame spencer-

    maybe i have a higher tolerance for boredom because every time i ever worked with a pitcher, i remember months and months of getting up early , meeting at some baseball field to throw, repetition after repetition working to get a guy in shape or have him learn something new.

    baseball at this level is really like watching grass grow, except slower. if someone doesn’t have the patience and stamina to get into it, then they probably should look at another part of the game.

  25. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Tackelberry February 23rd, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Can you imagine the backlash on these boards if Montero comes out of the gate flying and Pineda struggles at the beginning? UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    —————-

    Can you imagine the number of hand wringers who will be saying “I knew this was a good deal all along” if Pineda is as good as advertised and Montero has to go back to Trip A for year 3?

  26. Tom in N.J. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:40 am

    You may not know if the trade was a good one for a few years.

  27. EsquireMatt February 23rd, 2012 at 9:41 am

    So since its basically the same team as last year, we can expect about a 100 win season (97 last year), the #2 run scored offense (8 runs behind BOS), and a division crown? I’ll take it.

    Maybe this year we wont get totally screwed over by rain in a 5 game series. Or maybe this year we will have more than one dominant starter so we are not so reliant on CC to win us 2 games in a short series.

    I honestly can’t see why people are not excited about this season.

  28. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:42 am

    But why is it necessary to have the “I told you so”s???

    Because without them where would our entitled sense of superiority come from?

  29. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:43 am

    “I’ve got some good ‘I told you so’s’ ready in my clipboard for easy ctrl-v work every time Montero hits a HR,”

    jerkface-

    ” i told you so’s” don’t get read by the people who were wrong.

    they split to RAB and other places.

    go back and read the early days of hughes on this blog.
    very few stick around.

    patrick to his credit did. very few others.

  30. Erin February 23rd, 2012 at 9:43 am

    MarcCarig Confirmed: Michael Pineda’s hands are the size of dinner plates. CC’s dinner plates.

  31. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Another MarcCarig scoop.

  32. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 9:47 am

    I just feel like if people are bored with the conversation on here it should be them that finds something better to do with their time :)

    kate – I don’t think ‘I told you so’s!’ are necessary but given all that’s been discussed about the trade its inevitable. In fairness, though, no ‘I told you so’s!’ will sway me until the season is complete. And even then, I think the evaluation process continues. ….I’d like to believe most of the posters here understand that (however much they may fight their own rationality).

  33. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 am

    jerkface-

    i watched moneyball on the plane down here to florida yesterday.

    it’s interesting how the cliches polarize into a battle between two warring camps.

    it’s really not a battle between only two sides though scouts and statistical people really are at odds with each other.

    personally i never liked the idea of scouts anyway. they really are for the buying and selling of players. i would rather just let open competition determine whether a guy moves forward.

    in other words let people compete. if a jeremy lin competes and does well, who cares what a scout says or for that matter a stat person who is in a way another kind of scout.

    i like open competition to rule.

    that’s a third way of picking winners. very democratic. kind of like the us open in golf.
    no opinions matter. just a score. just results

  34. scuzzles February 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 am

    So you guys are excited about this 2012 team? I guess it really depends what Pineda does. If he wins 20 games and takes us to the World Series, I’ll be stoked and will appreciate the Montero trade. But we still have the same Swisher, Tex, Arod, who are non clutch the last 2 post seasons. And a manager that stays with these players and doesnt go with the hot bats in the post season. If Girardi brought Montero inonce last postseason to pinch hit, I bet we get a big hit, instead of watching these same guys consistently choke. This team doesnt have clutchness. Damon and Matusi were clutch and they practially won the 2009 world series themselves.

    Watching Montero was the excitement of this upcoming year and hes gone. Not we have to turn our attention to Pineda every 5th day. But Chavez and Ibanez should retire.Theres a reason whey nobody else picked them up. I just want to see some change from a team that failed the last 2 years. The Red Sox got worse, the Phillies got better, but at least they made some changes. We pretty much have the same team that wasnt good enough last year. I hope Im wrong.

  35. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 am

    So you guys are excited about this 2012 team?

    doi

  36. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 9:51 am

    “I’ve got some good ‘I told you so’s’ ready in my clipboard for easy ctrl-v work every time Montero hits a HR, I know some people object to re-typing around here.”

    Given we’ve already seen it at the mere mention Montero has hit batting practice homeruns (who knew he has power? who knew the Seattle Mariner organization conducted batting practice?) I take your threat as genuine.

  37. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:52 am

    “Can you imagine the number of hand wringers who will be saying “I knew this was a good deal all along” if Pineda is as good as advertised and Montero has to go back to Trip A for year 3?”

    now here is the makings of a fun bet that i’ll take part in.

    i bet that pineda sees action in triple a before montero does .

    i’ll bet a month of silence on the blog :)

  38. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 9:52 am

    “I just hate when people try to say that a topic is burnt out or tired on this blog…”

    Me too.

    Not topic is ever tired or burnt.

    But new, insightful, well reasonable contributions to the topic have been smoldering for weeks.

  39. Doc Iac February 23rd, 2012 at 9:54 am

    scuzzles February 23rd, 2012 at 9:48 am

    ——–

    what about arod coming back healthy? jones lookin to prove himself, young pitchers, hughes last chance in NY, what about Mo’s possile last season? im pumped for baseball season, just cause they lost a top prospect dont let that kill your season man

  40. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 9:54 am

    randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:52 am

    “Can you imagine the number of hand wringers who will be saying “I knew this was a good deal all along” if Pineda is as good as advertised and Montero has to go back to Trip A for year 3?”

    now here is the makings of a fun bet that i’ll take part in.

    i bet that pineda sees action in triple a before montero does .

    i’ll bet a month of silence on the blog
    —————

    You including injuries that require a rehab stint or just performance related?

  41. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 am

    “i bet that pineda sees action in triple a before montero does .

    i’ll bet a month of silence on the blog :)

    Done.

  42. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 am

    i like open competition to rule.

    that’s a third way of picking winners. very democratic. kind of like the us open in golf.
    no opinions matter. just a score. just results

    How do you determine who wins in an open competition? With stats.
    How do you determine who benefited from an unfair advantage such as quality of opponents or a more beneficial home field? scouts/stats

    Open competition is great, but unrealistic in todays game. Scouts and stats are necessary to atleast cut down the field to a manageable level.

    Though if I were the Yankees owner I’d have my own minor leagues with 10 extra teams (2 rookie/short season, 2 low a, 2 high a, 2 aa, 2 aaa) and I’d hold open tryouts and sign lots of indepedent leaguers and I’d move everyone around between the Yankee League and the real minors to try and gauge who is ready. A Branch Rickey type system.

    An unfortunate loss in the wake of rising costs and the cut back of the minor league system is that baseball has lost a lot of late bloomers and hidden talents due to not being in position to be illuminated to baseball. In the case of late bloomers they end up out of baseball before they would hit their experience/tools peak breakthrough, and for the hidden talents they don’t have the outlet to make it.

  43. Tom in N.J. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Nobody talks about just how important Kuroda is going to be on this team.

  44. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
    It’s a shame braun’s confidentiality was breached. Not blaming anyone. But test results are supposed to be secret til after appeal

    ____

    You know it’s funny. Where was this outrage when A-Rod’s results were leaked!?!?!?!

  45. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 9:57 am

    JF,

    What’s the difference in the new pitchFx data and the old?

  46. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Given we’ve already seen it at the mere mention Montero has hit batting practice homeruns (who knew he has power? who knew the Seattle Mariner organization conducted batting practice?) I take your threat as genuine.

    There have been no ‘I told you so’s about Montero and BP, unless you think the mere mention of Montero hitting BP HRs is an ‘i told you so’?

  47. Benny Blanco February 23rd, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Ac1, you stole my thunder. I just said the same thing.

  48. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 9:59 am

    scuzzles.

    I think you need to take a hard look at the history of postseason baseball in the wild card era.

    The difference between recent Yankees teams and the dynasty teams was the latter’s pitching was better.

    The teams of recent years have hit better and scored more runs than the dynasty teams every did.

    It’s a fact.

  49. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:59 am

    “You including injuries that require a rehab stint or just performance related?”

    let’s make it fun.

    for any reason.

    stuckey’s in.

    who else?

    nick in sf will try to tweak the bet in his favor.
    that’s what people good at betting do.
    no tweaking.
    straight forward fun bet.

  50. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Tom in N.J. February 23rd, 2012 at 9:56 am
    Nobody talks about just how important Kuroda is going to be on this team.
    -
    Cashman’s poor timing stepped on his best move of the offseason.

  51. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 am

    What’s the difference in the new pitchFx data and the old?

    The old is automatically labelled by pitchFx or whatever system stores the information. The new data has been parsed by hand and relabeled so that each pitch is accurately labelled based on what the pitcher was trying to throw which is really kind of ridiculous. 2 people relabeled these things by hand and there were over 3 million lines of pitchfx data.

  52. EsquireMatt February 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 am

    I get that it was a let down for some people when Montero was traded. He was supposed to be the Yankee savior (pun intended). But the fact of the matter is the Yanks didnt really need to “improve” their offense. They had the second most runs scored in MLB. They had a 210 run differential by far the best in baseball.

    If the offense stays the same as last year, and the pitching hold up to at least the level it was (though I think it could be MUCH better), the Yanks are again one of the toughest teams in baseball.

    The rest of the division seems to be weaker, at least on paper, so the Yanks should cruise to another division crown.

    The playoffs are so unpredictable. Having the best team doesn’t ensure victory. Especially in a 5 game series. The odds are that Chavez and Ibanez probably wont have that many playoff ABs, if any. They are situation role players that the team needs to get through the regular season.

    The Heat arent the best team in the NBA because of Mike Miller. They are the best team because of Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. The same is true for the Yanks. CC, Cano, Grandy, Jeter, Mo, Arod, Tex are what make this team the best out there.

  53. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:00 am

    I heard on the radio yesterday that Montero would catch 20-40 games this year most likely.

  54. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 10:01 am

    “There have been no ‘I told you so’s about Montero and BP, unless you think the mere mention of Montero hitting BP HRs is an ‘i told you so’?”

    There were proverbial “sighs”.

    Maybe not “i told you so” verbatim, but equally ridiculous.

  55. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 10:01 am

    But the fact of the matter is the Yanks didnt really need to “improve” their offense. They had the second most runs scored in MLB.

    They were #1 in ERA+ as well.

  56. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:01 am

    “. 2 people relabeled these things by hand and there were over 3 million lines of pitchfx data”

    I hope they were well compensated

  57. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:04 am

    “But the fact of the matter is the Yanks didnt really need to “improve” their offense. They had the second most runs scored in MLB.”

    If you assume it will stay that way…..then no……if you consider that age and injury risk is mounting……then you can always improve.

  58. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 10:04 am

    “How do you determine who wins in an open competition? With stats.”

    jerkface-

    no , i mean , in a us open qualifier for example, it’s the score that gets you to move on. no one;s opinion of what you will do projected from that score matters.

    you’re in the top ten say, you move on to the next stage.

    if you stop and get philosophical for a moment, think about the fact if there is no ownership to a player’s rights there are no traditional scouts or untraditional statistical analysis scouts.

    ponder that.

    then you’ll understand more where i’m coming from.

  59. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 10:06 am

    you’re in the top ten say, you move on to the next stage.

    The top ten of what? Stats

    And theres no way you can have a giant open tournament for baseball players, takes too long to get good or find out who is good or remove lucky runs etc. The closest thing to what you’re talking about is Branch Rickey’s minor league system which had dozens of teams and players moving up and down based on performance.

  60. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 10:09 am

    time to walk the jack russell and then inverrary today. haven’t played there , but it used to be a great course . we’ll see. it will probably kick my but today, but a bad day playing golf is still a good day :)

  61. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Once again another ill-conceived golf analogy. Atleast it wasn’t based on a volleyball bracket.

  62. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:12 am

    ” no , i mean , in a us open qualifier for example, it’s the score that gets you to move on. no one;s opinion of what you will do projected from that score matters.”

    Its a little different thought than just counting golf strokes with prospects…….

  63. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:15 am

    The Yankees should hold the SS open in a couple of years to find the replacement for Jeter! :)

  64. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 10:16 am

    EsquireMatt,

    You hit on some key points. I’ve always maintained when a sect of fans look at the Yankees year to year, and especially when they start protecting to future years, their basis seems to be comparing the Yankees to themselves, and drawing the conclusion “if the Yankees aren’t as good as they were in XXXX, and other teams are getting better, then the Yankees will have a tougher time holding the other teams at bay”.

    This is bad science.

    I think some fans are also swayed by the anecdotal reasoning that in order to be a top offense, they have to be above average at every position – the true “circular line-up” meme that’s been pushed by the Yankees broadcasters.

    For example, Mark Teixeira didn’t have a vintage Mark Teixeira last year. He’s been better, and been better as a Yankee. There are certainly things you want to see improve and no longer trend towards.

    But he was still a relatively VERY productive hitter in 2011 39 HR’s don’t grow on trees, particularly on this new era.

    Yankees have more talent 1-25 than other teams – hands down.

    But what f’s with people’s heads is that 1-25 are not all playing at their INDIVIDUAL ceilings.

    I think people are more comfortable with a roster maximizing/being at the height their abilities, rather than a collection of talent that while in various stages of their production potential, still equal a greater sum than other teams have.

  65. djsunyc February 23rd, 2012 at 10:16 am

    I’d argue Pineda is not just the story of the spring, but the story of the year for the Yankees.

    ———–

    and will make this blog unreadable once the season starts…i suspect alot more regulars to depart when it starts getting vile and redundant…

  66. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Jon Heyman JonHeymanCBS

    @

    it is NOT rangers or red sox for oswalt, at least not now, according to people who know.

  67. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 10:19 am

    The Yankees should hold the SS open in a couple of years to find the replacement for Jeter!
    ___

    Still hoping Nunez develops into that guy.
    No need for another 20 million dollar ss once jeter is gone.

  68. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 10:19 am

    blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:15 am
    The Yankees should hold the SS open in a couple of years to find the replacement for Jeter!
    -
    In Cashman’s pitching is everything world, it probably doesn’tmateriel who replaces Jeter and A-Rod’s bats, as long as the pitching is good…

  69. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 10:20 am

    jerkface-

    there are stats and there are stats. elias does stats in one way and bill james does them in another.

    i realize there is an individual player vs team thing that makes using competition results to be the determining factor in moving up a level .

    but it;s important to realize why there are socuts of any kinds. it is precisely because they exist when there is ownership rights to a player.

    i would like to see a guy in trip a automatically get promoted based on stats. and mlb players automatically be demoted on stats.

    the major league game is based on owning a players rights . i think the player should own his own rights and let performance move him up. if he hits a .900 ops in triple a , he’s up somewhere.

    if a mlb guy hits .620 ops he’s down somewhere.

    yeah, i realize it;s not going to happen, but as i said it’s important that owning players rights, which is a kind of slavery in away, is the reason for scouts.

    in golf, there is no ownership of players, so there are no golf scouts looking for the next big thing. you can’t own a golfer so why look for one?

    in baseball , a team can own a player’s rights, so it’s worth it to them to go find them and sign em up and then use them how they want within limits.

    it’s a weird concept that seems normal just because we are used to it.

  70. LGY February 23rd, 2012 at 10:20 am

    There has been some talk on here about how Mariners fans reacted to the trade. When I was looking for something else I came across a poll of 4082 of those fans:

    http://mobile.lookoutlanding.c.....tero-trade

  71. randy l. February 23rd, 2012 at 10:21 am

    “Once again another ill-conceived golf analogy. Atleast it wasn’t based on a volleyball bracket.”

    you have no idea of either of these sports do you? :)

  72. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:22 am

    “In Cashman’s pitching is everything world, it probably doesn’tmateriel who replaces Jeter and A-Rod’s bats, as long as the pitching is good…”

    Cashman wants pitching not belly itching.

  73. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 10:23 am

    will make this blog unreadable once the season starts…i suspect alot more regulars to depart when it starts getting vile and redundant
    -

    I don’t understand this line of thinking. Much of the blog has always been unreadable. The way I deal with it is to read very few posters’ stuff.

  74. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 10:23 am

    “and will make this blog unreadable once the season starts…i suspect alot more regulars to depart when it starts getting vile and redundant…”

    The mere fact that even in the best of bestest of circumstances, the 62-67 games the Yankees WILL lose this season WILL make this blog unreadable.

    It’s inevitable.

  75. CompassRosy February 23rd, 2012 at 10:23 am

    @shannondrayer: Felix greeted Montero with an “El nino!” this morning lol.

    :)

  76. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Neutral seems like a typical vote for a Mariners fan ;) its where their franchise has been stuck for awhile.

  77. LGY February 23rd, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Chad should get a poll up on here. I’d be interested to see how it lines up with the Mariners one.

  78. djsunyc February 23rd, 2012 at 10:26 am

    I don’t understand this line of thinking. Much of the blog has always been unreadable. The way I deal with it is to read very few posters’ stuff.
    ———–

    The mere fact that even in the best of bestest of circumstances, the 62-67 games the Yankees WILL lose this season WILL make this blog unreadable.

    It’s inevitable.

    ——-

    lol, true that. we really need an ignore feature :)

    let’s go yankees.

  79. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 10:26 am

    LGY,

    I’d tend to speculate that to a Mariner’s fans, anything coming to them in a way of high-ceiling offense would be like offering a starving man ham sandwich for $25 dollars.

    I tend to think the starving man would see that as money well spent.

    No?

  80. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 10:27 am

    In golf a player isn’t a group of 30-40 people trying to win a championship, each contributing something towards that end. And you are ignoring sponsorship, which is one of the ways that most golfers become PGA tour professionals, which is kind of like being owned by a team.

    And your system is obviously full of flaws, like for example its much easier to OPS .900 in the PCL than it is in the IL. So all the PCL hitters would advance quickly. Its easier to pitch in the EL, so pitchers would advance. If too many good players advanced, it would cause rapid advancement of less skilled players as they did better against incoming talent learning the ropes.

  81. scuzzles February 23rd, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Someone mentioned Andrew Jones too. Ugh. Another stiff that occasionally gets a big hit. Really the only thing that excites me about this team is watching the pitching evolve, and hopefully its alot better than last year. Even CC isnt a sure thing. If you recall he sucked last post season.

  82. Benny Blanco February 23rd, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Per jack curry. Martin said the Pineda was “baby-ing” his change up but once he threw it with the same arm speed as just fastball there was big improvement. Uuu Ohhh. :)

  83. pat February 23rd, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Chavez: “If they had no interest, in my mind I was probably going to shut it down,” he said. “I had other options but if I was gonna come back, this was going to be the spot.”

  84. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Jesus Montero wouldn’t exist in a golf style system because he wouldn’t have been able to afford the fees to become a touring professional… now if only there was a scout that would peg him for sponsorship…

  85. pat February 23rd, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Joel feeling cranky today?

    Joelsherman1
    Advice to colleagues: News is who doesn’t show up, not who does. Taking attendance is for 1st-grade teachers

  86. Erin February 23rd, 2012 at 10:34 am

    New Post- Thursday morning notes: ?Officially, I?m nothing?

    :arrow:

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