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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Romine sore on Day Four

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 23, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

After a fourth day of workouts, Austin Romine has been added to the list of slightly sore Yankees. Romine’s back started hurting him today, but it doesn’t sound serious.

“He caught today,” Joe Girardi said. “But we just held him out (of other drills) and we’ll probably hold him out a little bit tomorrow. Besides that, we’re OK.”

Position players report tomorrow, and so far there are only a few mild health problems (Romine’s back, George Kontos’ oblique, Brad Meyers’ shoulder). Guess that’s pretty close to the best you can ask for at this time of year.

One non-Yankees note: Word is that Roy Oswalt has decided not to sign immediately and will instead try to gauge the market mid-season. It’s already being compared to the Roger Clemens situation a few years ago.

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172 Responses to “Romine sore on Day Four”

  1. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Problem for Oswalt is there are a lot more questions about him now than there were about Clemens then….Clemens was healthy and teams wanted him….he just didn’t want to pitch …….

    Im sure Roy is going to wait out an injury and try to pounce…..the questions about him won’t go away though

  2. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    So let me get this straight.

    Yankees could give Austin Romine some Tylenol, but instead they should have traded him instead on Montero?

    That is Randy-worthy.

  3. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Thanks for the info and links last thread fellas.

    Appreciated.

    Immediately is seems if the Yankees so chose, they could spend/reset – spend/reset, but that would require shorter term deals… Is this perhaps intended effect of the new CBA by MLB?

  4. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Yankees could give Austin Romine some Tylenol, but instead they should have traded him instead on Montero?

    They should have traded him because so far he has been more injury prone and not as good as Montero :twisted: Plus guys with back issues tend to keep having them.

  5. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    re-post

    yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 1:19 pm
    @BryanHoch

    #Yankees C Austin Romine has some back soreness. He might be held out of workouts tomorrow.

    I hope back trouble isnt going to be a recurring thing for Romine
    ____
    Let’s hope not, but it might be. He was beasting last year before the ASB but the two DL’s because of the concussion (19 games missed) and the sore back in August really hurt his second half numbers. First half he was @.295. I believe 6 HR’s, 36 RBI’s and his situational hitting was stellar.

  6. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Immediately is seems if the Yankees so chose, they could spend/reset – spend/reset, but that would require shorter term deals… Is this perhaps intended effect of the new CBA by MLB?

    I think the intended effect is that the Yankees spend under the threshold. Whatever that entails. Its essentially harder soft cap.

  7. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    blake February 23rd, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if before Cashman’s tenure with the Yankees is over he’s seen driving around the parking lot at YS with one of the WS trophies tied to the back of his car.
    —————–

    hahaha.

    I don’t quite think he’s on Costanza level.

    I do think it bugs him that people just think he’s a checkbook GM and that people make movies about Billy Beane who hasn’t won anything.

    If that’s the case though – if he really wants to prove that it isn’t Steinbrenner money but his own hard work that has made the Yankees a Juggernaut then he really should move on after this year and try his hat with a mid market team.

    I personally like Cash, I like the work he’s done, he’s made some blunders but that’s going to happen…I just get annoyed by his negative outlook on everything. Of course I want a GM who sees a team that can use improving. If you’re not looking to improve your team then you’re in the wrong line of work. But when you make a trade or sign a player at least pretend to be excited about it rather than getting on with Fransayso five minutes after it’s done and going through why you are so remorseful of having done this deal.

    I get that you can’t go out there and say “I can’t believe we got Pineda for a DH with a live bat that we hyped through the moon,” but going out there and saying that you gave up way too much…stuff it. If you didn’t like the deal you wouldn’t have done it. It’s mock humility taken to an annoying extreme.

  8. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 1:40 pm
    Yankees could give Austin Romine some Tylenol, but instead they should have traded him instead on Montero?

    They should have traded him because so far he has been more injury prone and not as good as Montero Plus guys with back issues tend to keep having them.
    ///

    First of all, he wasn’t bringing back their new toy, but in a vacuum, the reason you trade Romine instead of Montero would be too obvious to state, without insulting everyone’s intelligence. However, maybe not, considering the Carlos Lee comparisons I read here daily.

    Not to say Romine cannot hit – that’s just false. As per YF’s comment in previous thread, that the concussion and the back troubles intervened when he was really hitting very well. But we’re talking about a guy who will give you offense at catcher vs. a generational type bat. Duh…

  9. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Re Alex: he has been doing this stuff for years. He hasn’t turned over a new leaf or anything.

    He just has never gotten credit for being a mentor to guys before, because it was more fun for people to hate him and portray him as selfish.

    He’s got a ridiculous contract, leading, I might add, to a ridiculous idea they have that they have to “save” the DH for him to justify it, but Alex is a great, great resource for the Yankees. I’d like to see him remain with the team in the future in some capacity, but with his loot, he may want to be closer to Miami and he may want to invest in a team and call the shots.

  10. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    “Romine instead of Montero would be too obvious to state, without insulting everyone’s intelligence.”

    :)

  11. Bronx Jeers February 23rd, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    If Brad Pitt played Billy Beane who would potentially play Cashman?

    My votes on this guy. We’ve all seen him but most don’t know his name. If you’ve seen him in a lot of Ron Howard movies that’s because it’s his brother.

    http://jaydeanhcr.files.wordpr.....ward-2.jpg

  12. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    et’s hope not, but it might be. He was beasting last year before the ASB but the two DL’s because of the concussion (19 games missed) and the sore back in August really hurt his second half numbers. First half he was @.295. I believe 6 HR’s, 36 RBI’s and his situational hitting was stellar.

    He hit 6 HRs all year, so if that was his fast half then the second half really did a number on him.

    He hit: .286 .351 .378 .729
    April: .306 .383 .500 .883
    May: .287 .343 .362 .705
    June: .286 .324 .314 .638 Concussed the first week of june
    July: .247 .341 .312 .653
    Aug/Sept: .296 .345 .352 .697

    The back trouble and concussions might have colored the rest of his season, but his May was already slumping before he got hurt.

  13. Tackelberry February 23rd, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    “Not to say Romine cannot hit – that’s just false. As per YF’s comment in previous thread, that the concussion and the back troubles intervened when he was really hitting very well. But we’re talking about a guy who will give you offense at catcher vs. a generational type bat. Duh…”

    What wins championships? Pitching.. Pitching.. and more pitching!!!

    You really think Romine would have brought back a Pineda type starter? You’re dreaming if you think that!. Montero is gone. I wihs you people would get over it now and move on!

  14. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes February 23rd, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Clearly Oswalt doesn’t want to pitch in Boston or Texas…odd, being as both would theoretically offer at least opportunities to compete and win it all.

    Does he think he’ll get better TCV mid-season?

    An odd choice if you ask me, though I am sure there will be some demand.

    I wonder if he’s holding out for any particular team.

  15. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    2h Ben Badler @BenBadler Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
    Nothing new RT @JohnC112461 Any update on Jorge Soler?

  16. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    “What wins championships? Pitching.. Pitching.. and more pitching!!!”

    Based on what…what…what!!??!!

  17. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    “If Brad Pitt played Billy Beane who would potentially play Cashman?”

    Benjamin Linus

  18. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    ^Depends on what you have and need.

    Lots of stuff/hypotheticals on Badler’s twitter on potential International Draft.

    http://twitter.com/#!/benbadler

  19. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    They should have traded him because so far he has been more injury prone and not as good as Montero Plus guys with back issues tend to keep having them.

    Wow im surprised Seattle (or any other team) didnt jump all over that endorsement of Romine.

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    You really think Romine would have brought back a Pineda type starter? You’re dreaming if you think that!. Montero is gone. I wihs you people would get over it now and move on!
    ///

    Seems like you’re “moving on” and commenting on my post before actually reading it:

    Here’s what I said about Romine NOT being able to capture Pineda:

    “First of all, he wasn’t bringing back their new toy, but in a vacuum….”

    Do me the courtesy of reading what I write more carefully, if you’re going to take the trouble to respond.

    Thanks.

  21. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes February 23rd, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Yes, Montero is gone…let it go folks. Odds are he’ll never play for the Yankees. He’ll probably end up being Boston’s DH in like 5 years.

  22. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    The idea of should have been Romine instead of Montero only works predicated on the premise the Yankees intent was to get what they could from one of their upper-level catching prospects.

    Which is a contextually utterly irrelevant premise.

    But yeah, let’s go with that today. What’s a little contextual irrelevance when we have a defiant “Montero good, Cashman bad” vacuum that needs filling.

  23. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 1:51 pm
    “What wins championships? Pitching.. Pitching.. and more pitching!!!”

    Based on what…what…what!!??!!
    ///

    LMAO

  24. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    Hi everyone!!,

    What wins championships? Pitching.. Pitching.. and more pitching!!!

    ===============================

    A balanced team has more chance to win a championship than a pitching only team will. Who won this year?? the Phillys or the Cardinals. The 90´s Yankees were very balanced teams that won championships against the Braves for example.

    The issue is that we needed the bat more than another arm

  25. Bronx Jeers February 23rd, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Not sure if this has been posted but this is a good one.

    http://www.nesn.com/2012/02/cu.....escom.html

  26. Tackelberry February 23rd, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    “Based on what…what…what!!??!!”

    History…History…history!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. Tackelberry February 23rd, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “The issue is that we needed the bat more than another arm”

    No we didn’t

  28. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “What wins championships? Pitching.. Pitching.. and more pitching!!!”

    “Based on what…what…what!!??!!”

    Good question – what does win championships?

    Pitching?

    Hitting?

    “Balance”?

    Who’s got something to contribute other than a two-bit opinion?

  29. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Wow im surprised Seattle (or any other team) didnt jump all over that endorsement of Romine.

    They probably should have traded him when he was a top 100 prospect, and not tanking his rankings. I’ve been advocating including him deals for some time now. They werent going to get Pineda or his ilk back but teams have been interested him as far as trade deadline type rumors go.

    Romine has been living on reputation the past 2 years, needs a full healthy season where he hits up to his potential. Starting in AAA will do him good because he apparently had a lot of trouble with the back drop in AA and it certainly showed in his offensive decline the last 2 seasons.

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    How about Cashman plays himself. That way he can take a nice hiatus and who knows? He may never look back.

  31. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    “The 90´s Yankees were very balanced teams that won championships against the Braves for example.”

    During the regular season they were.

    Their pitching carried them in October those years.

    I’ve already seen the numbers. I looked them up because I can still well remember a trend that developed at the time. Keep the game close, and score late.

    But the Dynasty teams did NOT score often.

    Without some key stellar pitching performances – Pettitte against the Braves. Hernandez against the Indians, some of those A’s games, history would be VERY different.

  32. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    What Rich and JAP are saying is that they shouldn’t have traded Montero at all….that’s the larger point than anything about Romine……and its a valid opinion IMO

  33. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Stuckey,

    A balanced team will have both enough pitching to winn it all and enough batting power to overcome the natural mistakes pitcher will make. If you have a pitching-defense only team, the pitcher has no margin for error ( even Halladay can have a bad day ), so if you fell behind there is little chance that you can comeback and win.

    An all offense no pitching team, is the reversed scenario, the pitching won´t be able to keep a lead intact, and the taxing effects on the BP eventually make it unlikely to go all the way.

  34. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    luis February 23rd, 2012 at 1:57 pm
    Hi everyone!!,

    What wins championships? Pitching.. Pitching.. and more pitching!!!

    ===============================

    A balanced team has more chance to win a championship than a pitching only team will. Who won this year?? the Phillys or the Cardinals. The 90´s Yankees were very balanced teams that won championships against the Braves for example.

    The issue is that we needed the bat more than another arm
    ///

    You need good pitching and good hitting. St. Louis had Carpenter win some big games and had Albert, Berkman, Holliday and Freese who could make a difference in tight games. Albert wasn’t Albert-like, but his mere presence strikes the fear of God in you.

    I thought all along that Philly had challenges offensively. Having loads of pitching didn’t make up for that.

  35. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    “What Rich and JAP are saying is that they shouldn’t have traded Montero at all….that’s the larger point than anything about Romine……and its a valid opinion IMO”

    Perfectly valid.

    As valid the 200th time at it was the 1st, mainly because nothing new or insightful has been added to it since.

  36. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “What wins championships? Pitching.. Pitching.. and more pitching!!!”

    “Based on what…what…what!!??!!”

    Good question – what does win championships?

    Pitching?

    Hitting?

    “Balance”?

    Who’s got something to contribute other than a two-bit opinion?
    ———————

    In 2011 5 of the top ten clubs in runs scored made the playoffs
    In 2011 5 of the top ten clubs in fewest runs allowed made the playoffs

  37. Tackelberry February 23rd, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    So shouldn’t the combination of Cano, Granderson, Tex, Arod, Swishe, etc. be enough offense ? With the improved starting rotation, that gives the Yanks a better shot in the postseason. You can’t tell me that you were comfrotable with Freddy Garcia starting game 2 last year. Or Burnett starting game 4, even if MOntero was in the lineup

  38. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    blake February 23rd, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    What Rich and JAP are saying is that they shouldn’t have traded Montero at all….that’s the larger point than anything about Romine……and its a valid opinion IMO
    ——————-

    Wait what? Rich and JAP are against the Montero trade? When did this happen :-)

  39. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    I’m tired of this “debate” also.

    How about some good stuff on the young pitchers, Chad? How’s Betances throwing? Manuelito? Can we get some at least phony quotes about how those kids look?

    How about a story about how hard Gary Sanchez isn’t working?

    Seriously, I can’t wait for the ST games to get going and get air time.

  40. Tom in N.J. February 23rd, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Pitching and fielding do not win championships in baseball, according to professor Charles Pavitt. At best, Pavitt believes a team will win only half its games if they have a great defense, but no offense.

    In his recent study, “An Estimate of How Hitting, Pitching, Fielding and Base-stealing Impact Team Winning Percentages in Baseball,” Pavitt examined statistics over a 47-year period, from 1951 to 1998, and concluded that hitting is the most vital aspect of winning ball games.
    “Hitting alone is way more important than pitching and way more important than fielding,” Pavitt said.

    In the study, which will be published in the Journal of Quantitative Analysis in Sports, Pavitt writes that offense and defense have equal sway in a team’s ability to win, but the components of the two vary in value. According to Pavitt, 48 percent of winning is determined by hitting, while pitching and defense each constitute 25 percent. Base-stealing contributes approximately 2 percent in his formula for winning.

    http://www.udreview.com/sports.....0aPS4ePU-o

  41. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    During the regular season they were.

    Their pitching carried them in October those years.

    I’ve already seen the numbers. I looked them up because I can still well remember a trend that developed at the time. Keep the game close, and score late.

    But the Dynasty teams did NOT score often.

    Without some key stellar pitching performances – Pettitte against the Braves. Hernandez against the Indians, some of those A’s games, history would be VERY different.


    Runs scored in wins
    96: 5,6,3,5,5,8,6,5,8,1,3
    98: 2,3,4,7,4,5,9,9,9,5,3
    99: 8,3,3,4,3,9,6,4,7,6,4
    00: 4,4,7,7,8,5,9,4,6,3,4

    Are you sure you looked at the numbers? Helluva lotta crooked numbers there.

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Freddy pitched a rather good game, actually. He held them to at two for a while but the offense just could not help him out.

    Kuroda is here this year, so Freddy won’t be in that slot this time around.

  43. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 1:49 pm
    et’s hope not, but it might be. He was beasting last year before the ASB but the two DL’s because of the concussion (19 games missed) and the sore back in August really hurt his second half numbers. First half he was @.295. I believe 6 HR’s, 36 RBI’s and his situational hitting was stellar.

    He hit 6 HRs all year, so if that was his fast half then the second half really did a number on him.

    He hit: .286 .351 .378 .729
    April: .306 .383 .500 .883
    May: .287 .343 .362 .705
    June: .286 .324 .314 .638 Concussed the first week of june
    July: .247 .341 .312 .653
    Aug/Sept: .296 .345 .352 .697

    The back trouble and concussions might have colored the rest of his season, but his May was already slumping before he got hurt.
    _____
    He didn’t have the pop but he actually hit pretty well in May. Likely the large # of home games were a factor in his SLG stat, and probably he got a little tired during that long end of month road trip.

  44. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    How about a story about how hard Gary Sanchez isn’t working?

    El maquinito is already lazy???

  45. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    How about a story about how hard Gary Sanchez isn’t working?

    Yesterday, Cashman didn’t confirm or deny that stud catching prospect Gary Sanchez reported to camp a dozen pounds heavier than the club wanted.

    “I wouldn’t say,’’ Cashman said when asked if Sanchez, who is listed at 217 pounds, was overweight.

    Sanchez, who won’t be 20 until December, is the youngest player in any big league camp this spring.

  46. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    LOL, again, I can’t figure out why, if people are bored with a subject, it is the responsibility of those not yet bored with said subject to stop talking about it.

    I’ve been bored of hearing other people tell me there’s apparently more exciting stuff we should be discussing during these 3 whole days of camp, but you don’t see me complainin’ about it. If I’m bored by the discussion here, I just leave and do something I find less boring.

  47. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Luis, not one is suggesting moving towards a WEAK hitting Yankees line-up. That’s a misrepresentation of the argument.

    But REAL argument (and it’s speculative at that), is a lessER offensive team (compared to previous version of themselves) isn’t necessarily a weak offensive team (compared to their competition at the time).

    The counter argument has been (in my experience) based on the idea the Yankees won’t be “balanced” or they won’t enjoy a league-wide advantage in one area to the same degree they have in the past.

    That’s all fine rhetoric but there’s little empirical weight to it. Mathematical arguments (and quantifying balance and degrees of advantage ARE mathematical principles) are being made sans any math.

    Its just all broad assumption.

    Which is perfectly fine. But trying to qualify the impact of ONE undeveloped player in that sort of broad, unspecific line of argument is mixing tactics, which leads to conclusions with no bearing.

  48. DocTodd February 23rd, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    For those concerned about whether or not the offense will be good enough, keep in mind that the improved rotation plus the already strong pen should mean that our offense should not have to score as many runs as last year.

  49. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    “…because he apparently had a lot of trouble with the back drop in AA and it certainly showed in his offensive decline the last 2 seasons.”
    ______
    No, he had an catcher all-star caliber year in the first half, but he battled concussions/neck and back injuries in the second half. You can argue that he wasn’t healthy in the second half,and hopefully that isn’t an issue going forward, but he was very good in the first half.

  50. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Good offense doesn’t mean scoring a ton of runs. Means having guys that can come through to break open tight games. They had the guy on the bench who could have done that. The manager let him rot. Could have moved ‘sado up in the order. He chose to remain static. Some very odd choices, or a curious lack of them exercised.

    But that’s over and done with now.
    ///

    I too want some footage of Sanchez (The Next One) hitting, but I’d also really like to hear what the Catching Sages think of JR Murphy back there. Murphy had perhaps the worst day of his young career (I’m hoping) the lone time I saw his work behind the plate. The word is, he’s quantum jumped and they view him as a long-term catcher. Now Murphy’s bat makes me excited that they think he may be able to stick at catcher.

    Given the Montero trade, I’d say updates on the next wave of upside catchers the system is deep in is useful information for fans.

  51. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    *a* catcher

  52. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Jerkface.

    Do you see any evidence to suggest the yankees hit any better or worse in those ALDS’s than they did in 2011?

  53. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    No, he had an catcher all-star caliber year in the first half, but he battled concussions/neck and back injuries in the second half. You can argue that he wasn’t healthy in the second half,and hopefully that isn’t an issue going forward, but he was very good in the first half.


    If you look at the numbers he was good for april which was 80 PA. Thats about it. Batting average was good but thats about it. ISOing under 100 in the minors isn’t good at all for a prospect. Especially one that is supposed to be showing more power not less.

  54. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    “I can’t figure out why, if people are bored with a subject, it is the responsibility of those not yet bored with said subject to stop talking about it. ”

    I’m not bored with the subject, I’m perplexed by the apparent fixation on rehashing the same exact things ABOUT the subject.

    The issues isn’t the subject itself, its the quality of the discussion.

  55. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Granted i am being broad, and you are right about that having a lesser offense with better pitching could go all the way this year. My concern is the future, our lineup is aging and we don´t have any position player close to be ready but we have plenty of pitching prospects almost ready for the show. So what do we need more???

  56. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Do you see any evidence to suggest the yankees hit any better or worse in those ALDS’s than they did in 2011?

    Yes, they advanced to the next round.

  57. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    *********RANT ALERT**************

    E-FRIGGIN-nough

    Montero is gone – get over it!

    Pineda is here – embrace it!

    Could the Yankees have made it to the playoffs this year with only Kuroda in the rotation and not adding Pineda too? Probably

    Will the Yankees have enough offense in their lineup to make it to the playoffs without Montero? Probably

    Will Pineda become an all-world pitcher – a potential Hall of Famer? It’s possible though more likely he’ll be very good.

    Will Montero become an all-world hitter – a potential Hall of Famer? It’s possible though more likely he’ll be a very good DH.

    Would it have been nice to have Montero around? Sure if his bat develops.

    Will it be nice to have Pineda around? Sure if his pitching continues to develop.

    Will Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter continue to get older? Yes

    Will the Yankees address any offensive issues they might face in the coming years? Yes

    Could this trade be a disaster for the Yankees? Absolutely

    Could this trade be a major win for the Yankees? Absolutely

    Could this trade be a wash where both teams get what their GM’s (not their fans) felt they needed most? Absolutely

    Will we know the answer today, tomorrow or the next day? Unless one of them trips over a golf cart and suffers a catastrophic injury – no.

    Can we please – for the love of all the gods who have ever been worshiped from the dawn of man – move the EFF on?

    ******Rant ends*****

  58. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:18 pm
    LOL, again, I can’t figure out why, if people are bored with a subject, it is the responsibility of those not yet bored with said subject to stop talking about it.
    ///

    Narcissism?

    The problem in this place is there aren’t individual threads. So the person who wants to deconstruct Pineda’s delivery, or discuss Teixeira’s swing habits, can’t go into a thread and be left in peace to expand on it; anyone walking by can just derail the discussion or dumb it down, etc, because they feel like it.

    It’s a good place when multi themes whiz by, and people can focus on their individual discussions with those who wish to carry them on.

  59. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Sanchez got suspended for 2 weeks this past season.

    Don’t know the reasons why. Not assuming its a kiss of death. Not advocating moving him. Hope he turns into everyone we wanted out of Montero.

    But its there (just do not to be accused of making it up after the fact, if it ever came to that).

  60. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Do you see any evidence to suggest the yankees hit any better or worse in those ALDS’s than they did in 2011?

    Yes, they advanced to the next round.
    ———–

    Is that a product of the Yankees being a better offensive club in 2010 than they were in 2011 or is it a product of the 2011 Tigers having better pitching than the 2010 Twins?

  61. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    “Yes, they advanced to the next round.”

    Indeed.

    But as a forum that often discusses the merits of indicators over result-based measurement (pitcher wins, batter rbi), did they advance to the next round because they hit better in any statistically significant way in those years?

  62. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    LOL, again, I can’t figure out why, if people are bored with a subject, it is the responsibility of those not yet bored with said subject to stop talking about it.

    ——————–

    Shame -

    I couldn’t care less what people talk about – shoot I know no one cares about the trade suggestions I throw out there 99.9% of the time – it won’t stop me from doing it.

    But it has been two months of the exact same conversation the proponents of the deal have not added any fact or insight to their argument, the opponents have not added any fact or insight to their argument.

    We get it – some people like the trade, some people don’t…if anyone has a new twist on why or why not I for one would love to hear it.

  63. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Love your rant Chip.. but not gonna happen.

    Its sort of like how people, for whatever reason, love to continue to discuss Arod’s contract. It will continue to be relevant until its not. Just the same as this trade will continue to be relevant… and the payroll will continue to be relevant…

    And taking issue not with the subject but the context, to me, is a game of semantics on a blog where the purpose is to discuss the organization. The Pineda trade talk isn’t going anywhere. Its only remained stagnant to this point because Pineda and Montero have yet to play. The discussion will evolve as they do and will continue to be relevant to conversations about the organization.

  64. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Shame,

    Spot on

  65. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:15 pm
    How about a story about how hard Gary Sanchez isn’t working?

    El maquinito is already lazy???
    ///

    Luis! What’s “right on” in spanish? It probably sounds a lot cooler than the english ;).

  66. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:18 pm
    LOL, again, I can’t figure out why, if people are bored with a subject, it is the responsibility of those not yet bored with said subject to stop talking about it.
    ///

    Narcissism?

    The problem in this place is there aren’t individual threads. So the person who wants to deconstruct Pineda’s delivery, or discuss Teixeira’s swing habits, can’t go into a thread and be left in peace to expand on it; anyone walking by can just derail the discussion or dumb it down, etc, because they feel like it.

    ——————-

    JAP that’s not the problem at all – the problem is that it’s chinese water torture. The arguments are the exact same as they were 5 minutes after the trade went down.

    The trade was good because the Yankees needed young pitching and Montero is a DH and hitting is easier to find than pitching and Pineda is really really good.

    The trade was bad because Montero’s going to be an elite hitter, the Yankee offense is old, he could carry them the next six years and the Yankees have plenty of young pitching in the pipeline.

    It’s like eating the exact same thing every meal every day – change it up a little – add something to the argument.

  67. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    But as a forum that often discusses the merits of indicators over result-based measurement (pitcher wins, batter rbi), did they advance to the next round because they hit better in any statistically significant way in those years?

    No, its impossible I’d think. In any short series the number of runs scored is highly dependent on when hits happen. You can score 5 runs in a game and it can all come on 2 hits in short succession. Over the long haul a team getting 2 hits and a couple of walks a game isnt going to win a lot.

    The dynasty Yankees are an impossible achievement in this day and age and will be even more impossible going forward with the new wild card rules.

  68. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    Jap!!!

    LOL, “right on” is “así es!!”

  69. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    “But it has been two months of the exact same conversation the proponents of the deal have not added any fact or insight to their argument, the opponents have not added any fact or insight to their argument. ”

    See my post above. The discussion just hasn’t moved because we’ve hashed out everything we can to this point. Once the players involved actually start playing, the discussion will evolve based on performance.

    The only reason it came up in this thread was because ROMINE got injured. So its being rehashed with a new wrinkle to some extent. I understand being frustrated that the conversation isn’t moving forward quickly enough…. but a lot of it is sort of just because the season hasn’t started.

  70. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    “My concern is the future, our lineup is aging and we don´t have any position player close to be ready but we have plenty of pitching prospects almost ready for the show. So what do we need more???”

    Luis, pitching is more volatile, fragile some would even say.

    I GET that Jeter and Arod are aged and Tex’s trend lines are something to watch. I understand where the Yankees hitting prospects are in the minors.

    But EVERYTHING I’ve ever observed about baseball tells me predicting the Yankees will have ENOUGH pitching years down the road (Pineda was a long-term acquisition) is arrogance.

    I understand a team has to plan for the long-term, but trying to extrapolate the balance of the team 2 years from now is just not something that’s going to yield reliable results.

    I’m a most-talented-player-in-a-transaction guy. I don’t know if that’s Pineda, that remains to be seen. But I just think the argument that Montero addresses a greater needs in 2014 and beyond is just bad baseball.

    I genuinely have a hard time understanding how anyone who watches baseball as some of the folks here too are falling back on the argument.

  71. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Chip,

    I won´t talk about it again, i promise. ;)

  72. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    “The only reason it came up in this thread was because ROMINE got injured. So its being rehashed with a new wrinkle to some extent.”

    And reasonably so. There really is nothing to talk about with the team right now. Virtually every bit of news is basically boilerplate, and often boring.

  73. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    “Its only remained stagnant to this point because Pineda and Montero have yet to play. The discussion will evolve as they do and will continue to be relevant to conversations about the organization.”

    Agreed and cool.

    So can’t we all agree to wait until April at least?

  74. pat February 23rd, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    How about at least conceding certain points rather than rehashing them to advance the conversation?

  75. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:24 pm
    No, he had an catcher all-star caliber year in the first half, but he battled concussions/neck and back injuries in the second half. You can argue that he wasn’t healthy in the second half,and hopefully that isn’t an issue going forward, but he was very good in the first half.


    If you look at the numbers he was good for april which was 80 PA. Thats about it. Batting average was good but thats about it. ISOing under 100 in the minors isn’t good at all for a prospect. Especially one that is supposed to be showing more power not less.
    ———–
    JF, granted he is not a big pop guy, but he can hit 15HR range. You are underselling him. Also don’t forget that park factor for RHB at Waterfront is 81 for HR (100 = average) and 95 wOBA. D’Arnaud is your catching stud in EL, but Romine is an elite prospect who will give you above average hitting/decent OBP from the catcher position.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:36 pm
    Jap!!!

    LOL, “right on” is “así es!!”
    ///

    asi es!!

  77. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Here’s something fresh:

    chris palmer ? @ESPNChrisPalmer
    Some Heat players have said privately they won’t allow Jeremy Lin to score more than 10 points.

    Beyotches.

  78. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Love your rant Chip.. but not gonna happen.

    Its sort of like how people, for whatever reason, love to continue to discuss Arod’s contract. It will continue to be relevant until its not. Just the same as this trade will continue to be relevant… and the payroll will continue to be relevant…

    And taking issue not with the subject but the context, to me, is a game of semantics on a blog where the purpose is to discuss the organization. The Pineda trade talk isn’t going anywhere. Its only remained stagnant to this point because Pineda and Montero have yet to play. The discussion will evolve as they do and will continue to be relevant to conversations about the organization.
    ————————-

    I just would love it if there was some acceptance of the fact that judging it to be a bad trade or a good trade now is silly. It will be judged over time on the field.

    In the end it boils down to one thing – this was a fair trade for both teams.

    The Mariners got the top hitting prospect that their organization has been looking for for years, and the Yankees got the top flight young pitcher that they have been looking for for years.

    What does that mean? It means neither fan base is entirely happy.

    For every Rich in NJ or JAP wondering why the Yankees traded an elite hitter for a righty pitcher in need of maturing; there is a Mariner fan who wants to know why the M’s traded away a guy who could have paired with King Felix for the next 6 years as a top of the rotation stud for an over-hyped catcher who probably can’t catch.

  79. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Look, there are plenty of things on here I would love to never have brought up again by anyone. Arod’s contract, for me, being at the top of the list. AJ Burnett sucking, also up there (even though he’s been traded you know we’ll still get performance reports lol). If I never read the name Cliff Lee on this blog again I’d be thrilled. Hell, even as a Joba-to-the-rotation bandwagoner, I still think its ridiculous we still talk about it here BUT….

    If people feel like they have something better to do than sit here and read the same, old, rehashed arguments…. by all means find something better to do with your time.

  80. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    “The dynasty Yankees are an impossible achievement in this day and age and will be even more impossible going forward with the new wild card rules.”

    Agreed.

    Would you further agree, that that run, added with the Yankees payroll advantage, which has MOSTLY served to get them TO the postseason consistently, has wound up skewing *some* fans perceptions/expectations about the Yankees achievements in the postseason the last 10 years?

  81. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    “For every Rich in NJ or JAP wondering why the Yankees traded an elite hitter for a righty pitcher in need of maturing”

    Chip

    Pay close attention to something in the future. I almost never bring the subject up. If others do, I am going to discuss it.

    There is another factor I have been noticing. The people who bring the freakin’ trade up most are the people who support it.

  82. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Stuckey,

    Is not bad baseball….is trying to keep the team competitive over the years, but is a matter of opinion i guess….

  83. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Chip, buddy, this right here: “I just would love it if there was some acceptance of the fact that judging it to be a bad trade or a good trade now is silly. It will be judged over time on the field.

    In the end it boils down to one thing – this was a fair trade for both teams. ”

    Is an argument that has been made by MANY folks on the blog from both sides of the I hate/love the trade sides of the fence. Should we continue to put that disclaimer in every post re: Montero, or would that just be rehashing the same argument? :P

  84. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    JF, granted he is not a big pop guy, but he can hit 15HR range. You are underselling him.

    His theoretical max is a 15-20 HR guy. And he is a righty without the opposite field power of Montero, so how much of that ever makes it to the big leagues? The stats don’t tell everything, and of course he has been injured, but he is hitting like Francisco Cervelli in the minors now. That doesn’t scream ‘starting catcher of the future’, considering his defense is worse than Cervelli’s was in the minors.

    He has to have a real nice break out this year, because right now I think the Yankees sign Martin long term or one of the other FA catchers before going with him as a starter.

  85. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Here’s something fresh:

    chris palmer ? @ESPNChrisPalmer
    Some Heat players have said privately they won’t allow Jeremy Lin to score more than 10 points.

    ——————-

    Good – let them focus on Lin and have Melo and Stat beat them.

  86. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    “There is another factor I have been noticing. The people who bring the freakin’ trade up most are the people who support it.”

    LoHud fallacy.

    We’re talking about it now because Romine back hurts a little.

    Who was it that made the connection…?

  87. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    ch in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    “For every Rich in NJ or JAP wondering why the Yankees traded an elite hitter for a righty pitcher in need of maturing”

    Chip

    Pay close attention to something in the future. I almost never bring the subject up. If others do, I am going to discuss it.

    There is another factor I have been noticing. The people who bring the freakin’ trade up most are the people who support it.

    ________________________

    Rich,

    Very good observation. I feel like Al Pacino in The Godfather part III, “i want to get out but they pull back in!!”

  88. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    luis

    Nice.

  89. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Well I say we all make a pledge:

    No one brings up the Montero/Pineda trade until there is something new to bring up about it?

  90. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Better yet Chip, lets just root for Pineda and hope he can be all that he can be

  91. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    “Is not bad baseball….is trying to keep the team competitive over the years, but is a matter of opinion i guess….”

    Luis, let me be clear. The INTENTION is sound, wise and noble.

    But good intention does not equate to good application.

    Last year, the starting outfield for one of the best offenses in baseball was a marginal prospect the team’s own fans wanted no part of in 2009, a guy who hit .219 in 2008, and a guy who didn’t have a clue against lefties up until mid-2010.

    In after 2008 I told you who’d be the starting outfield in 2011, how confident would you feel?

    Now think of your perception of the years Arod, Jeter, Tex, Posada and Martin had?

    If you had all that info 2 years ago, do you think you would have arrived at the “one of the best offenses in baseball?

    My point is, 2 years in forever in baseball. Doesn’t mean you don’t plan, but the keystone of good planning is perspective

  92. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Lets all make a suicide pact.

  93. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    luis February 23rd, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Better yet Chip, lets just root for Pineda and hope he can be all that he can be
    ————-

    works for me

  94. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Lets all make a suicide pact.
    ———-

    Ok, you go first though :-D

  95. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    In after 2008 I told you who’d be the starting outfield in 2011, how confident would you feel?

    Granderson hit .280 .365 .494 .858 in 2008 and all the numbers said Nick Swisher would bounce back. So pretty good :)

  96. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    I prefer the suicide girls. (easy choice, acutally)

  97. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    For every Rich in NJ or JAP wondering why the Yankees traded an elite hitter for a righty pitcher in need of maturing; there is a Mariner fan who wants to know why the M’s traded away a guy who could have paired with King Felix for the next 6 years as a top of the rotation stud for an over-hyped catcher who probably can’t catch.
    _____
    Because the Mariners are backed up in the elite prospect pitching category. Unlike us, who are not backed up in the hitting to replace Montero until @3 years down the road.

  98. lounge lizard February 23rd, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Crazy Miami Heat stat that I noted from looking over their schedule and the “player-highs” by game:

    Heat have only allowed an opposing player to have the game-high points twice in 33 games. In 31 of the 33, the game-high point total has gone to a member of the James-Wade-Bosh trio. Only Ray Allen and Chris Paul have scored the game-high points for an opposing team playing the Heat this year.

    If Lin can crash that party, or assist another Knick in doing so, he will have accomplished something. A W would be nice too.

  99. Erin February 23rd, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Another peaceful afternoon on The LoHud, I see. :P

    AndrewMarchand The Yankees and @RussellMartin55 are talking an extension.

    AndrewMarchand Russell Martin news story link http://es.pn/zmUHSQ Under current talks, they would rip up his just signed one year deal

  100. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    “AndrewMarchand The Yankees and @RussellMartin55 are talking an extension.”

    *barf*

  101. Tom in N.J. February 23rd, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    I hated losing Montero’s potential, but I’m looking forward to watching Pineda reach his.

  102. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Sub-optimal :x

  103. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 2:44 pm
    “For every Rich in NJ or JAP wondering why the Yankees traded an elite hitter for a righty pitcher in need of maturing”

    Chip

    Pay close attention to something in the future. I almost never bring the subject up. If others do, I am going to discuss it.

    There is another factor I have been noticing. The people who bring the freakin’ trade up most are the people who support it.
    ___
    This. I too don’t bring it up until someone makes a remark that deserves a rebuttal.

  104. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 2:56 pm
    Lets all make a suicide pact.

    ======

    HAHA!!!! good one :)

    ======

    Stuckey,

    For the record i loved Gardner from the start….Grandy´s trade, not so much, but he has grown on me and proved me wrong ( which is very often lol ;) ). But you are right that two years is an eternity in baseball terms.

  105. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    JF, I agree Romine needs to produce over the course of a season and stay healthy, and obviously he is not in the top catchers in our system hit-tool wise; however, Romine is a better hitter than Cervelli.

  106. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    I’m not generally a nasty guy – but I kind of hope Oswalt’s plan to wait until midseason to pick a team backfires on both him and/or the team that picks him.

    I have never liked Roy Oswalt. There’s no rational reason for this as far as I can tell, he’s just not a guy I have ever wanted on the Yankees or would ever root for (unless he was facing a team I loathed).

    I think if he were ever on the Yankees I would end up rooting for him the same way I rooted for Clemens and Randy Johnson – which is to say I would do it but I would feel dirty about it deep inside.

    He is my anti Torrii Hunter (as in Hunter’s a guy I have always wanted on the Yankees and would love to root for) I’m actually rooting quite hard against the Angels so that if the Yankees find themselves in need of a RH OF Hunter might be available via trade.

    Anyway, I hope that either no team comes calling for Oswalt or that if they do he is a gigantic bustaroonie. Unless of course that team is the Yankees.

  107. Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    Are we allowed to bring up that they should be talking to CANO about an extension?…. Wait wait…. I think I’ve brought this up before, sorry folks!

  108. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 3:00 pm
    “AndrewMarchand The Yankees and @RussellMartin55 are talking an extension.”

    *barf*
    _____

    :roll:

  109. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Do you hate Oswalt because he got a bulldozer as part of his contract bonus?

  110. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Are we allowed to bring up that they should be talking to CANO about an extension?…. Wait wait…. I think I’ve brought this up before, sorry folks!

    Yes they should extend Cano. I wonder if extensions count the entire contract for AAV.

  111. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 3:04 pm
    Are we allowed to bring up that they should be talking to CANO about an extension?…. Wait wait…. I think I’ve brought this up before, sorry folks!
    ___
    You read Dostoevsly, don’t you? All is permitted in the Godless Lohud world. ;)

  112. Rich in NJ February 23rd, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    “Are we allowed to bring up that they should be talking to CANO about an extension?…. ”

    Of course, because he’s actually, you know, good.

  113. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    ove your rant Chip.. but not gonna happen.

    Its sort of like how people, for whatever reason, love to continue to discuss Arod’s contract. It will continue to be relevant until its not. Just the same as this trade will continue to be relevant… and the payroll will continue to be relevant…
    ///

    I’m not getting into this, because I find the notion that someone thinks they can tell me what I should talk about here, laughable; what’s more that they think they can intimidate me from talking about it, even moreso.

    But since I like you, I’m going to try to explain that losing a brilliant young player before his career has begun, after following his steps in the organization for six years, and getting to see a phase of that development in person (Trenton, in my case), and having that player ripped from your future (emotionally, on one hand, because of how GOOD that player is and how long you’ve waited for him – on the other, because baseball wise it strikes you as an out-of-touch decision and a gratuitous one, not based on real need), is NOT the same as being provoked about ARod’s contract (although that contract and this trade occurring are not unrelated).

    There’s a grieving process one goes through – denying a fellow fan that tells me you’re an odd type of fan, frankly (“you” meaning, in general). It also tells me you had no real grasp of what was lost, didn’t really pay attention to his progress in the minors, and therefore cannot understand the sense of loss a certain kind of fan feels. Either that, or you yourself can’t stand to hear about it, because you’re miffed about it too, and want to get away from reminders and look to the future (I’m more tolerant of this type of fan, personally).

    FTR, I don’t give a damn about convincing people here about who was right in this trade. I have a decent handle for myself about who gets the loss and who does not. I’m tired of it myself, because it stings all over again when it gets discussed.

    What happens here though, which I think you may have overlooked, is the incessant gang banging of people who expressed dismay over the deal by koolaid drinkers who hace resorted to talking the now traded Montero down like he’s some Richie Sexton clone and some selfish reprobate – either to make themselves feel better or to paint the Yankees as geniuses; even resorting to calling fellow posters who don’t care for management Red Sox trolls – they have been the aggressors, trying to muzzle and dictate discussion and have, as a result, prolonged the same argument in here, over and over again.

    Calling a Yankee fan a Red Sox troll because they’re in grave doubt about a trade that could be talked about for years, shows what fools some are in here. It was and is a big deal. The players involved are both expected, in their way, to transform their clubs in some way.

    So, let’s try and be balanced, here. Now, I’m done discussing those who I think are the least interesting posters here – not the ones who just disagree, but the ones who challenge your right to an opinion that does not just smother management in kisses for their every move.

  114. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    On further thought, it would. They should extend Cano.

  115. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    The red sox held off their extension of Gonzalez because if they did it before April 1st it would count against them that year for luxury tax purposes. it would make the AAV of the contract 20 million when factored for the luxury tax, but they wanted to save 14 million in 2011 and so they held off on it. This means A-gons contract counts 22 mil against them going forward instead of 20 mil.

    Yankees should extend Cano. It will hurt them this year or next hurt but they will reap benefits of more wiggle room in 2014+

  116. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    “Granderson hit .280 .365 .494 .858 in 2008 and all the numbers said Nick Swisher would bounce back. So pretty good :)”

    Uh, can’t fool me. I recognize a conspiciuous ommision when I see one. ;-)

  117. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    JAP,

    Loved your post, and as Rich pointed out, i don´t start it i just answer to some things that i don´t agree with

  118. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Hell, even as a Joba-to-the-rotation bandwagoner, I still think its ridiculous we still talk about it here BUT….

    If people feel like they have something better to do than sit here and read the same, old, rehashed arguments…. by all means find something better to do with your time.
    //

    Ok Shame, I don’t understand this.

    Why is it ridiculous? He’s 26 years old. There’s a new pitching coach who had more success working with him in five minutes than Eiland did in this whole term here. He’s been throwing 97-98-99 at the top of his velo for a couple of years now….considering Cashman himself cited his declined velo that he thought “we may never seen again,” as a reason for his bullpen banishment.

  119. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Uh, can’t fool me. I recognize a conspiciuous ommision when I see one.

    I’ve been Gardner’s biggest fan on here, sorry I didnt think I needed to justify Gardner.

  120. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Does this they have done away with the dumb and outdated “no extensions ” policy? I certainly hope so…..Cano next.

    I really would like to see some BP video of Sanchez……I can’t find anything good on youtube and I have no idea what one of their best prospects swing looks like.

  121. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Does this they have done away with the dumb and outdated “no extensions ” policy? I certainly hope so…..Cano next.

    They’re not extending ole Russel Munson though, they’re ripping up the 1 year deal and turning it into a 3 year deal. A bit different. They are skirting a loop hole in their own policy.

  122. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    blake, two year old video on Sanchez? http://vimeo.com/5254232

  123. jacksquat February 23rd, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Why extend Martin now? The guy wasn’t that great last year. I’d like to see another season and then decide. There are 2 or 3 other good catching free agents after 2012 as well. Especially when Cano is not extended, and other much better players have not been extended in the past. What is with this love affair with Martin?

  124. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    I really would like to see some BP video of Sanchez……I can’t find anything good on youtube and I have no idea what one of their best prospects swing looks like.

    There was a lot of youtube last year when he was in the NYPL, but I don’t know if I only got to see it because I am part of a secret sect or if it was available to the public.

  125. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Question to the forum:

    Would you extend Martin right now??, why not wait for the end of the season??. I do think that Cano should be extended right away ( i don´t think this two guys compare to each other )

  126. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    ‘They’re not extending ole Russel Munson though, they’re ripping up the 1 year deal and turning it into a 3 year deal. A bit different. They are skirting a loop hole in their own policy.”

    Yea but its essentially the same thing…..I wouldn’t do it though……I don’t see the need at this point

  127. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    luis, I’m out of breath!

    I’m off for a swim in Lethe, the river of forgetfulness! (Actually, the YMCA ;)).

    Looking forward to taking in the game with you in May, and also having you comment here more often, as you have lately. We’ll have a lot more to talk about soon, as ST progresses.

  128. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Would you extend Martin right now??

    I’m assuming because:

    1. The Yankees love him
    2. They think they can save some money if they extend him now instead of going to FA

    So if you’re the Yankees, and you’re conscious of 2014 and you really want Martin to be there to see it, you don’t let him hit FA. I guess they are also betting that he wont stink.

  129. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Shame Spencer February 23rd, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    Are we allowed to bring up that they should be talking to CANO about an extension?…. Wait wait…. I think I’ve brought this up before, sorry folks!
    —————–

    Might be tough – since Boras already brought it up and Cashman categorically said that he wasn’t going to talk about it and then Boras had to go to the media and pretend he brought it up as a joke.

  130. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    YF,

    My phone wont load that but illbe look later…thanks.

    JF,

    All I’ve seen is some like game footage shot on a cell phone or something …..nothing really quality….maybe I just missed it.

  131. jacksquat February 23rd, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Martin hit .237 .324 .408 last year, only threw out 30% of runners (95 stolen bases against). Lowest batting average and obp of his career. I don’t get it.

  132. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    All I’ve seen is some like game footage shot on a cell phone or something …..nothing really quality….maybe I just missed it.

    -

    There was HD footage of his PAs in NYPL.

  133. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    “not the ones who just disagree, but the ones who challenge your right to an opinion that does not just smother management in kisses for their every move.”

    No one’s right is being challenged. Judgment is, which is notable given how much you just acknowledged your stance on this trade is based on grieving and emotional disappointment.

    And let’s be clear, party lines on this issue have been drawn based on where you stand on the trade, NOT how you express your stance.

    You spent two 2 paragraphs criticizing ONE comment ONE poster made about Randy, who is hardly a victim of that sort of conduct and often the biggest offender.

    You’ve consistently made bogeymen of pretty much anyone who isn’t a vocal critic of the trade, which is EXACTLY the behavior you’re attempting to condemn.

  134. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De_DZl1RAQQ

    An NYPL PA

  135. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    If they extend Martin then where does that leave Romine? I wouldn’t extend him now…..because I think he’s still an injury risk….and because id rather sign Mkntero next winter if they arent going with Romine.

  136. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

    G Sanchez hitting a double

  137. Bo knows February 23rd, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Can they put in a codicil in the Martin contract as in – One HR swing per at bat?

  138. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    I extend Martin, but make 2013 the high year for salary so they have extra space in 2014.

    Maybe 3/24?
    2012: 7
    2013: 10
    2014: 7

    Or something like that?

  139. Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Question to the forum:

    Would you extend Martin right now??, why not wait for the end of the season??. I do think that Cano should be extended right away ( i don´t think this two guys compare to each other )
    ————

    Here’s the thing about the Martin rumor. The Yankees have, for years, had a policy of not talking about extensions with players until after their contracts run out – they didn’t do it with Jeter the first or second time he was due to be a FA, didn’t do it with Mussina, Posada, Andy or Rivera – I can’t see them breaking that trend for Russ Martin.

    Much the same way I can’t see them doing it for Cano.

    It might cost them more money in the long run, but at the same time I understand the policy for three reasons:

    1. You don’t want every player running to you for a new deal instead of focusing on playing
    2. You don’t want to cause a rift in the clubhouse where you have one player who gets the extension and another player who doesn’t
    3. It keeps your options open in case something unforseen happens. In Martin’s case – if for some strange reason Kevin Towers turns to Cashman and says, “look, I can’t get a deal done with Miguel Montero, I’ll offer him to you for Martin (so I have a catcher) and Adam Warren.”

  140. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    JF,

    Thanks….I’ve actually seen that one I think……id like to see some BP video filmed from the other side

  141. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    “I’ve been Gardner’s biggest fan on here, sorry I didnt think I needed to justify Gardner.”

    Uh, fair enough. I don’t recall you being vocal on this topic while I was during the ‘we want Matt Holliday/Carl Crawford’ rallies, but I take your word for it.

  142. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    I extend Martin, but make 2013 the high year for salary so they have extra space in 2014.

    Maybe 3/24?
    2012: 7
    2013: 10
    2014: 7

    Or something like that?

    Luxury tax is based off AAV. They can’t finagle anything in a single year to get under it. It goes by total contract worth / years.

  143. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    stuckey, I think one can be very objective about the trade, not like it and offer reasons why and also express emotion about the loss of a player based both on the objective loss and the emotional tie. In this case, for me personally, those two things aren’t diametrically opposed nor does the latter cloud or in any way subvert/distort the former. Heading to work, good day, all.

  144. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    JAP,

    Take care my friend, count on it, i haven´t send you anything yet, because i am waiting until we get coser to the dates. Hopefully we´ll have plenty to talk about.

    Yankeefem,

    Watched the video of Sanchez, doesn´t his swing looks a little long??

    JF,

    To be honest, i am a little down on Martin, especially after the last post season.

  145. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    I think this particular ‘extension’ is more of a throwing away the 1 year contract because the season hasnt started.
    I agree in this new age of budget, the Yankees have to consider extensions over FA.
    Cano is going to bleed them dry now to the extent of 8/180 like tex’s contract. Maybe with an extension they save 3-4 mil per year for the next 8-10 years on him.

  146. J. Alfred Prufrock February 23rd, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Chip February 23rd, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    Well I say we all make a pledge:

    No one brings up the Montero/Pineda trade until there is something new to bring up about it?
    ///

    Romper room is paging you…

    It’s the biggest trade of Cashman’s tenure.. if I deem it interesting to discuss it, I’ll do so. How about you pledge to stop trying to run the board?

    Later, folks.

    Later

  147. Duh Innings February 23rd, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    The Yanks should sign Oswalt for a rotation of Sabathia/Pineda/Oswalt/Kuroda/Nova, trade Hughes to Toronto for Colby Rasmus who’d be under the Yanks control through 2014, make Rasmus the everyday 3B batting eighth, move A-Rod to DH, and either trade or cut Ibanez or tell him to wait and see if Rasmus is good enough to stick and if he isn’t, (Ibanez) returns and A-Rod goes back to 3B. Who wanted Ibanez besides the Yanks? No one considering he signed just before spring training camp broke.

    Rotation, 3B defense and age, and DH upgraded. Chavez still backs up at 1B and 3B, and Nunez is still the third option at 3B. A-Rod should smack at least 35 HR batting all the time and could learn 1B so he can spot start there and one day hold down 1B in case Teixiera is out with injury long-term.

    I think Rasmus could post at least 20 HR and 70 RBI in the eighth slot playing half the season at Yankee Stadium. He’s 25 and can play 3B better than A-Rod while Ibanez is 40 and the worst defensive outfielder among the Yankee outfielders (all he can play at this point is LF and even Swisher the second worst could play it better than him.)

    Hughes would not be a great loss as the Yanks could practically build a new 2013 rotation around Sabathia and Pineda with Nova and the entire 2012 AAA Yankees rotation under control. If two of those six starters were good enough to make the 2013 Yanks rotation, the Yanks could sign or trade for a starter or re-sign Oswalt, Kuroda, or Garcia if he has a good enough 2012. They could keep an eye on Hughes for 2014 since 2013 is his walk year, if he isn’t locked up beyond 2013.

    If Rasmus sucks with the bat as early as this season, the Yanks could simply platoon him with Chavez and Nunez, or move A-Rod back to 3B and get a DH, maybe bring back Ibanez. They could also just play Rasmus and if they don’t see him being the everyday 3B for 2013, they could do one of these things:

    1. Sign an everyday 3B (David Wright?) and make Rasmus the backup 1B/3B (he learns 1B.)

    2. Sign a 3B who could platoon with Rasmus or Nunez (both battle for the job in spring training.

    3. Trade Rasmus in a package for a 3B.

    4. Start Nunez at 3B.

    The risk in Hughes for Rasmus is Hughes could have a good enough 2012 and/or 2013 to be locked up, but what has he shown since his 2010 nosedive to make anyone think he will be better than a #4 this year and/or next? Right now he is battling Freddy Garcia for the #5 starter job, so he’s either a #5 or the swingman, for the 2012 Yankees purposes. I don’t see Hughes being the #3 behind Romero and Cecil who as nice pitchers as they are are not a true 1-2 and where is it written in stone that they will be solid long-term? Besides that Toronto has only one legitimately fearsome hitter in Bautista.

    Hughes for Rasmus makes sense in that it protects the Yanks from suffering another A-Rod long-term injury and who at 3B? Chavez can’t play 3B everyday, Nunez has very little experience there, and Bill Hall would probably be elsewhere. Even if Hall was available, how good could he be if he didn’t get a job out of spring training and no one signed him after that? A-Rod should not be playing 3B anymore. He’s too old and injury-prone now to play the field every day. He is the 3B only because of pride and his thinking he has to be an everyday fielding player to be a true homerun king. Well guess what folks? A-Rod could play the field until age 42/his contract is up and he still wouldn’t be the viable homerun king if he broke the homerun record because HE CHEATED BY TAKING P.E.D.S 2001-2003. If he’s a full-time DH the last two or three years of his contract (and most likely career), he definitely isn’t a true homerun king because he didn’t have to play the field the final two or three years of his career and he cheated 2001-2003. Hank Aaron played the field and never cheated his entire career.

  148. Erin February 23rd, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Par-tay time at GMS Field ;)

    BryanHoch Someone has tuned Steinbrenner Field to Lite FM or something. This is playing softly from centerfield, for real. http://youtu.be/xGbnua2kSa8

    BryanHoch Next up on the smooth sounds of GMS Field playlist, it’s ‘N Sync with ‘This I Promise You.’ (Not kidding.) ~

  149. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Stuckey, Jerkface is one of the biggest fanboy/advocates of Gardner alive.

    Blake, guess Yanks have a better handle on Romine’s health then we do. Let’s see if Martin can stay healthy also; still troubled by that period where we wouldn’t DL Martin and had a short bench for those games when Martin refused to be DL’ed.

  150. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    “Watched the video of Sanchez, doesn´t his swing looks a little long??”

    Yes….from those videos it does to me….but its hard to tell a lot because of the angle and quality etc….

  151. stuckey February 23rd, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    “I think one can be very objective about the trade, not like it and offer reasons why and also express emotion about the loss of a player based both on the objective loss and the emotional tie. In this case, for me personally, those two things aren’t diametrically opposed nor does the latter cloud or in any way subvert/distort the former.”

    ABSOLUTELY right.

    Arguing that anyone who doesn’t oppose the trade is a “koolaid drinker” is not an example of this high ideal.

  152. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Chip,

    Good post, makes a lot of sense

  153. Tom in N.J. February 23rd, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Is the AAV based on the AAV of the total contract or by how much is left on the deal?

    Meaning does the AAV of a front loaded contract (such as Alex’s) go down as the salary goes down?

  154. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Rasmus is an OFer who has never played 3B in pro ball. This one sentence just crushed like 200 sentences.

  155. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Is the AAV based on the AAV of the total contract or by how much is left on the deal?

    Meaning does the AAV of a front loaded contract (such as Alex’s) go down as the salary goes down?

    Its total contract.

  156. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Luis, gotta run, but his swing can get long, yeah, but he has great bat speed. Also that tape is a couple of years old, but he found something end of last season. Much better at hitting breaking balls now. Some say he has a better pure swing than Montero, but I don’t agree, but Sanchez’s is a very special bat.

  157. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Also the Jays wouldn’t trade Rasmus for Hughes.

  158. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    .” Some say he has a better pure swing than Montero, but I don’t agree, but Sanchez’s is a very special bat.”

    Nit from what I’ve seen…..but that’s why id like to see some current film from the correct angle.

  159. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Jerkface are you sure?
    what is the point then of back or frontloading contracts?

  160. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    blake, I will see what else I can find when I get back from work.

  161. Tom in N.J. February 23rd, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Colby Rasmus is left handed. You don’t see too many lefties playing third base.

  162. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    what is the point then of back or frontloading contracts?


    Yes I am 100% sure.
    Because the team doesn’t pay on AAV, they pay on what the contract actually says. The AAV stuff is only for luxury tax purposes and only 2 or 3 teams in all of baseball sniff the luxury tax threshold in any year.

  163. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Thank you YF, I agree Montero´s swing has no holes, but to be fair i haven´t seen Sanchez play, just the raw numbers that were very impresive, i think he outslugged Montero at the same level last season. Have a good one

  164. CompassRosy February 23rd, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    “Because the Mariners are backed up in the elite prospect pitching category.”

    ~

    Yep, YF.
    Especially looking forward to seeing this kid…

    http://tinyurl.com/7qf7rph

    I caught up with Ackley and Ryan afterward to get their impressions of Walker. Here’s what Ackley said:

    “He looks great. Great fastball, great life on his fastball, and it looks like he has a good feeling for his off-speed, especially for a kid that young. It seems like he’s all the way…I mean, he’s close to ready, it looks like.

    “You see that kind of stuff in the big leagues right now. I don’t know how far along he is in game-like situations, but just seeing him on the back fields, he looks like he has the stuff, and he’s only going to get better. It’s pretty scary to think about.”

    And here’s Ryan, who got a litlle more technical:

    “Very fluid, very easy – effortless. The ball comes out hot. He’s got some good tilt on the breaking ball, and I like the changeup. It’s hard to distinguish. It comes out the same slot as the fastball, and it just kind of bleeds down a little bit. If it was going left or right, you could maybe distinguish it closer to him, but it just comes out the same and fades a little bit. Pretty deceptive.

    “He’s pretty far ahead of the game. The talent’s there, obviously. It’s just fine-tuning it and making sure the control is there, maybe learn a cutter or something. If the control’s there, I’m sure he could compete (in the major leagues) right now. You could tell he’s an athlete, too. I see him taking PFPs (pitchers fielding practice), and I see somebody athletic fielding a ground ball. Sky’s the limit, it looks like.”

  165. ac1 February 23rd, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    makes sense.

  166. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Nats trying to extend Zimmerman , bats :x

  167. blake February 23rd, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    But after Pineda arrived in the Yankees’ camp, pitching coach Larry Rothschild worked with him to alter the grip on his changeup. Rothschild mentioned to Martin that Pineda’s changeup is a work in progress before the veteran catcher crouched to work with Pineda in a bullpen session Monday, and Martin was taken aback by how good Pineda’s changeup is already. He turned to Rothschild and said, “Larry, what are you guys talking about?”

    In other words: Pineda already has made strides with the changeup, a sign of his aptitude.

    http://www.riveraveblues.com

  168. yankeefeminista February 23rd, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:39 pm
    Nats trying to extend Zimmerman , bats
    _____
    Yep elite hitters get retained by their teams… Lohud fallacy is… Grrr. Gotta fly. Have a good one!

  169. luis February 23rd, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:38 pm
    what is the point then of back or frontloading contracts?


    Yes I am 100% sure.
    Because the team doesn’t pay on AAV, they pay on what the contract actually says. The AAV stuff is only for luxury tax purposes and only 2 or 3 teams in all of baseball sniff the luxury tax threshold in any year.

    ============

    JF,

    What happens with the deals that pay the player after he retires, they count as well?

  170. Jerkface February 23rd, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    What happens with the deals that pay the player after he retires, they count as well?

    if you mean deferred payments, those will count towards the luxury tax. If you mean like personal services contracts, they don’t count I think.

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