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Why not?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 24, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

After almost a full month rehabbing in Tampa last year, Derek Jeter returned from the disabled list on the Fourth of July. He was hitting .260/.324/.324 at the time. Five days later, he got his 3,000th career hit, and through those final 69 games, he hit .331/.384/.447. It’s part of Jeter lore at this point. Just when he seemed to be finished, he was back.

Now he’s 37 years old. Still the everyday shortstop. Still the leadoff hitter. Still the Captain. Is it reasonable to think he could carry those second-half numbers through a full season this year?

“Yeah, why not?” he said. “I think if you work hard and you’re dedicated — which I’ve always tried to do — I don’t see any reason why not. I don’t think you ever go into a season saying you’re not capable of doing something. I’ve always tried to stay positive, you guys know that, and I have a lot of confidence in what I’m able to do. It’s just a matter of going out there and doing it. If I didn’t feel as though I was able to do it, then I wouldn’t be there trying.”

All around him, Jeter’s seen old friends give it up. Bernie Williams was ushered out of the game years ago. Andy Pettitte retired last year, Jorge Posada retired this year and Mariano Rivera has hinted that he’ll be done after this season.

Players get older. Their skills suffer. It’s hard to play a young man’s game forever.

“If I didn’t’ think I was still capable of doing everything, I wouldn’t be playing,” Jeter said. “If I didn’t think I was capable of playing the game at a high level, I would go home. If I wasn’t enjoying myself, enjoying the competition, then it’d be time to go home. Right now, I think I’m capable, and I’m enjoying myself. I can’t comment on what would force me to retire, go home, stop playing. But I have a lot of confidence. I’ve always had a lot of confidence. If that starts to waver, then I wouldn’t do it.”

Associated Press photo from the minor league complex

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249 Responses to “Why not?”

  1. yankeefeminista February 24th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Go Jeet!

  2. Joe from Long Island February 24th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    austinmac ? i have to agree with your position. due process is the accepted way of doing things in a civilized society. tolerating the occasional guilty party to be wrongly set free/let off is the price we pay to protect the rest of society. so, i can see the arbitrator having no choice but to void the suspension.

    however, after listening to the link to the weei audio of will carroll speaking on the subject (provided by jerkface at 11:15), it sounds like braun?s lawyers presented evidence that by improperly handling the specimen, an incorrect test result was obtained.

    now, i?m not enough of a scientist in this area to know whether that could happen. but, from everything i?ve read in the papers by the pros in this area, including the wada, that?s not supposed to happen; the test results are supposed to be foolproof. carroll even implied that there?s still some unknowns here in exactly what was presented to the panel, and what the arbitrator?s thoughts and decision-making involved.

    as glove said, in his analogy, just because you get off doesn?t mean that you didn?t do something wrong. there?s no clean resolution to this, at least at this point. the only way there will be resolution is if braun tells us exactly and honestly what he did.

    somehow, i don?t think that?s going to happen. call me cynical.

  3. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    somehow, i don’t think that’s going to happen. call me cynical.

    What does he have to gain? If he says he is innocent, then you wouldn’t believe him anyways. What this really means is “We want Braun to say he cheated the system.”

  4. Shame Spencer February 24th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Shame Spencer February 24th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    “Lawyer speak is “not guilty of the charges”. “Complete innocence” means what it sounds like it means.”
    ——————————
    Agree to disagree.. for all intents and purposes, Braun is completely innocent. I will readily admit that.

    But he’s completely innocent… based on MLB’s drug testing policy. Unless you believe there is such a thing as being just a little innocent?

  5. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    We need a big year from Jeter, A-Rod, and Tex.

  6. Tackelberry February 24th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Lets not forget Jeter was almost the hero in game 5 of the ALDS. I remember jumping off the couch when his shot left the bat, and how I slowly sank back down when it died at the wall.

  7. Wave Your Hat February 24th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “But he’s completely innocent… based on MLB’s drug testing policy. Unless you believe there is such a thing as being just a little innocent?”

    There’s a difference between “not guilty” – which means the charges were not proven – and “innocence”, which means the culpable act did not occur.

  8. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “There’s a difference between “not guilty” – which means the charges were not proven – and “innocence”, which means the culpable act did not occur.”

    There absolutely is.

    But at the same time, they are in NO WAY mutually exclusive either.

  9. MaineYankee February 24th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Shame Spencer February 24th, 2012 at 11:45 am
    “Do I dare ask what you think of the big bad Bruins? ”

    Ahhhhh Boston, Boston, Boston… those guys are really having a tough time of it lately, aren’t they? In fact, I think my Devils have more points than they do.. but the slotting for playoff positions in the NHL is probably one of the worst devised systems ever.

    —————————————————————————-

    They both have the same number of points.

    Yes the Bruins have had a bit of a slump lately.

    They have lost two of their better offensive players lately which hurts some.

  10. Joe from Long Island February 24th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    jerkace – you’re right. there’s no way that he comes away without a stain of some sort. some of that is a product of our current society, where too many upstanding citizens are found out to be not so upstanding, after all. because of that, we tend to be pre-conditioned to believe the worst. the victims of this are those who do follow the rules; they are tarred just by association – in this case ballplayers who are clean – until….we find out they’re not, so all remain under suspicion.

    we’ll see. if he comes out and discusses the argument that his lawyers made, and the evidence presented that shows how his test result was in error, ok. but, if he says something to the effect of…..i’m innocent, the process worked, i’m just happy to go back to playing baseballl for all my fans in the great city of milwaukee…..then questions will remain.

  11. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    I thought Jeter was done?

  12. Crawdaddy February 24th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    “We need a big year from Jeter, A-Rod, and Tex.”

    It would be nice if the 2012 season reminds us why they got those big contracts.

  13. pat February 24th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Braun will take questions on the field instead of a formal pres conference.

  14. pat February 24th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    “I thought Jeter was done?”

    Derek made it clear today that he is not done until HE says he’s done. :wink:

  15. RadioKev February 24th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    It’s going to be great completely ignoring all this Braun talk. No one knows the truth.

    Anyways, I expect another strong year from Jeter. Baseball is this guy’s life. With the other players’s mentioned, they have their own family’s on their minds. Maybe because Jeter doesn’t have one he can stay so focused on the game.

  16. blake February 24th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    Derek isn’t going to hit .330 for a full season again most likely….but he’s still their best option there and can still be a very productive player

  17. LGY February 24th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    The question with Jeter the past two years and now to a lesser extent with Tex is if they can perform capably against RHP.

  18. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    i realize that the average fan thinks nothing of letting negativity towards co workers slip into their minds, but world class team athletes do not.

    notice the lead sentence of the article

    “There are many ways for a ballplayer to sound like a jerk. He can come across as conceited or condescending, dismissive or disinterested, and this conversation is full of those potential pitfalls. Austin Romine knows it.”

    http://www.lohud.com/article/2…..ntero-gone

    and yeah , romine’s brain should not even entertain the thought that it’s good for HIM.

    in jeter’s life never once has such a thought entered his mind. jeter is the perfect unselfish team player and everyone can’t be as good physically, but they can have the attitude he does.

    i know that most people on the blog think it’s cool to be open about being glad their competitor has been traded, but it’s the wrong attitude for the player himself. he should be thinking differently and it shouldn’t even cross his mind.

    his thoughts are in the wrong place. so is he hoping martin is traded too?

  19. Erin February 24th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    :lol:

    joecapMARLINS #Marlins mgr Ozzie Guillen says he loves to shop at Bed Bath & Beyond. “That?s a relaxed place for me. I’d rather be there than drinking.”

  20. pat February 24th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    #Marlins mgr Ozzie Guillen says he loves to shop at Bed Bath & Beyond. “That’s a relaxed place for me. I’d rather be there than drinking.”

    :smile:

  21. Villa Nova-Ya February 24th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    As I understand it, Braun did not follow MLB’s rules for disclosing medications, correct? When the results were first made public, I seem to recall that he or his representative said something about him taking medication for a condition.

    I think this is what makes some people suspicious.

    So, there’s a lot of not doing exactly what you’re supposed to do going on here on both sides, I guess. And a lot of gray area. For instance, if the medication he was taking was what caused the spike in the testosterone, and he was taking the medication for legitimate reasons, then should he be suspended as someone that we typically think of as in violation of the PED rules? If all he did wrong was not clear the medication with his team and MLB? I mean, that’s a technicality, isn’t it?

    Anyway, baseball and life will go on. This is just the latest little bump in the road to paradise. :)

  22. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “Derek isn’t going to hit .330 for a full season again most likely”

    blake-

    but it wouldn’t surprise us if he did :)

  23. pat February 24th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Villa

    There was alot of things said and many have proven not to be true. More will be known after the words come from Braun’s mouth at 1pm. MLB Network is going to run it live.

  24. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Randy, you misunderstood the writers intent. He went on to commend Romine for saying out loud what everyone knows to be true.

    Now you can certainly compare him to Jeter, and say ballplayers should never, EVER let the press see behind the curtain, but you’re now arguing Romine should never THINK it.

    Getting to the major leagues is an instant raise to a high 6 figure salary. Its the possible start of the path to 7, 8 and even 9-figure earnings.

    There isn’t a ballplayer (including Jeter) alive who doesn’t want to see his path to the show cleared out.

    A trade is NOT the same as an injury.

    This is dinosaur talk.

  25. Villa Nova-Ya February 24th, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    pat -

    Who knew I’d have something in common with Ozzie Guillen???? LOL

    (Now if there was a way to go through the store while sipping a glass of wine, that’d be okay too!)

  26. MaineYankee February 24th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    This is dinosaur talk.

    ——————————————-

    That explains it.

  27. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    OT, I think people are overreacting to Lin being shutdown last night. He is not being permitted to surmount a learning curve that even a PG who was great at a big-time Div. I program and drafted top 5 would have to do. I also think he was gassed having played so many minutes for two weeks. Time will tell, obviously.

    What concerns me most are the physical issues that Amare appears to have had all season.

  28. m February 24th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Braun says he didn’t come out and talk because he wanted to put what was best for baseball ahead of what’s best for himself.

    Says he’s fighting for all players. *Does not include Alex Rodriguez.

    Never had an STD. Never had a personal issue.

  29. m February 24th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Pat M & I gently tried to tell people about Amare. Lin’s star was bound to fade a bit, but by no means has he flames out.

  30. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Gently? It’s been obvious all season.

  31. m February 24th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Rich,

    From the moment he signed. ;)

  32. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    “There isn’t a ballplayer (including Jeter) alive who doesn’t want to see his path to the show cleared out.”

    that’s what people like you think.

    as far as dinosaurs go, there is nothing to fear about them until one of them steps in you :)

  33. pat February 24th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Braun toeing the line of accusing the collector of intentionally tampering with the sample.

  34. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “that’s what people like you think.”

    And the guy who wrote the story, which you didn’t understand.

  35. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Randy,

    I think he coukd yes…..and hope he does.

    Braun sounds a lot ilike in his press conference that he’s suggesting that someone framed him and doctored his sample…..

  36. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Has Braun out and out denied using steroids?

  37. m February 24th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    The system worked because I am innocent.

    Ugh. Causation fail.

    You got off because the system failed! Whether your pee had synthetic testosterone the day it was collected can never be proved.

    Didn’t the other two samples travel? How come those did not spike like Braun’s sample or the one his team supposedly duplicated?

  38. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Braun all but accusing the carrier of tampering with his sample. Said he’s 100% sure nothing was ever in his system…..he’s considering legal action.

  39. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    “Has Braun out and out denied using steroids?”

    Yes….he just said he’s innocent t and 100% sure nothing illegal was ever in his sysyrem

  40. MaineYankee February 24th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Rich in NJ

    I haven’t watched Lin much so my view of his PG skills isn’t very good.

    What I saw last night was not someone whose ball handling skills wouldn’t have been very good in Div. 1.

    He appeared overwhelmed when pressure was put on him.

    What I saw in some of his better games he looked more suited to a SG.

    It looked like Amare was running with cement shoes on when he stole the ball and went on the fast break.

  41. hardwired7 February 24th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    I bought an awesome breathalyzer from Bed Bath & Beyond. I’ve worn that thing out.

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock February 24th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    blake February 24th, 2012 at 12:47 pm
    Derek isn’t going to hit .330 for a full season again most likely….but he’s still their best option there and can still be a very productive player
    ////

    Yes. When we drove out to see that historic 5-for-5 game against Price and the Rays, we had the feeling something memorable was going to happen. But what he did that day, there just aren’t words for that. There’s a certain steeliness to Derek that some don’t care for, but I love this about him. He is unmercifully demanding of himself. That’s why you don’t bet against him; he knows Father Time is gaining on him and everything he still has left he is not going to get cheated on – especially after last season.

    He’s a older, a little slower, a little more fragile. When he’s nicked up, they have to give him a day, or two – or three – even if his impulse is to play through it. They do that, he can have those Jeter-esque games. He’s vitally important to them, as always, so like you do with anything precious: handle with care.

  43. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    The system worked because I am innocent.

    Ugh. Causation fail.

    You got off because the system failed!

    The appeal system worked. :)

  44. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Randy,

    I think he coukd yes…..and hope he does.

    Braun sounds a lot ilike in his press conference that he’s suggesting that someone framed him and doctored his sample…..
    ————–

    Maybe Miguel Tejada gave him the same bad Vitamin B he gave to Raf Palmiero.

  45. LGY February 24th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Rich in NJ

    I haven’t watched Lin much so my view of his PG skills isn’t very good.

    What I saw last night was not someone whose ball handling skills wouldn’t have been very good in Div. 1.

    He appeared overwhelmed when pressure was put on him.

    What I saw in some of his better games he looked more suited to a SG.

    ———————-

    Lin’s Assist Percentage is at 46.6%.

    Only Steve Nash and Rajon Rondo have a higher Assist Percentage this season.

  46. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    JAP,

    you were at 3000? Wow that’s special. Agree with your other comments

  47. J. Alfred Prufrock February 24th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    “Derek isn’t going to hit .330 for a full season again most likely”

    blake-

    but it wouldn’t surprise us if he did
    ///

    Nope!

  48. pat February 24th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “We have heard some things about the collector and others involved in the process that are concerning but I’m not prepared to accuse anyone of anything.”

    I think he just did accused someone of something just not sure who and what.

  49. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Braun is a really smart dude…..you can tell by listening to him.

  50. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Braun is a really smart dude…..you can tell by listening to him.

    Smart enough to engineer a cover up?!?!

  51. J. Alfred Prufrock February 24th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    blake,

    I was. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t tear up. Just a special, special day.

  52. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    m

    He played at an MVP level last season. He attempted some inconceivably stupid dunk in warmups in the first game of the playoffs v. the Celtics and hasn’t been the same player since. I don’t see how that was foreseeable.

  53. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    M -

    The appeals process did work. The testing process did not.

    Two things went wrong here:

    1. Obviously the test wasn’t handled the right way.
    2. A supposedly “classified” process was leaked to the press.

    That Braun wasn’t going to be suspended is fair for public consumption – but the hearing is supposed to be closed, which it wasn’t in this case. As a result we know that Braun’s argument to the arbiter isn’t “I didn’t do it” but is instead “the test should have been thrown out” and the arbiter agreed.

    Based on the mishandling of the specimen it should have been thrown out – as a result Braun shouldn’t be suspended. That does not mean that reasonable people can’t still believe Braun did steroids. It is a cloud that will follow him for the rest of his career and any drop off in performance will conjure up questions about it.

  54. Best To Ever Do It February 24th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    his thoughts are in the wrong place. so is he hoping martin is traded too?

    ——————————————

    It wouldn’t surprise me if he did.

  55. versonine February 24th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    What’s believable about Braun’s story is that his testosterone level was 3 times the amount of any drug test in history. Something goes wrong with a sample when that happens.

    m

    Similar to Rich in NJ’s story, Tom Brady played at an MVP level during the season, and then after the Tuck Rule put him on his shoulder in the Super Bowl, he wasnt the same player for the rest of the game. That wasnt foreseeable either.

  56. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    That does not mean that reasonable people can’t still believe Braun did steroids.

    They wouldnt be very reasonable if they still thought he did it…

  57. djsunyc February 24th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    amare played like an mvp for 1/2 a season. the guy right now can not make a basketball move. if he’s not given the ball for an open shot or lead into a layup, he is a terrible player. combine that with no effort on defense or rebounding and you have a $20 mil stiff on your roster.

    the injuries were why pheonix only guaranteed 3 years on his deal. the knicks gave him 5 years uninsured like idiots. pheonix is lauded for having the best medical staffs in all of the nba.

  58. djsunyc February 24th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    players association are using braun as a spokesman against the “system”…he’s going into way too much detail if it was just about him.

  59. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Chip,

    “I didn’t do it” isn’t a case though to clear yourself…..what they presented was…..I don’t think that changes whether he did it or not……he left very little wiggle room im his comments….he says he did not do it and basically suggested his sample was doctored …..we shall see.

  60. Erin February 24th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    hardwired7 February 24th, 2012 at 1:21 pm
    I bought an awesome breathalyzer from Bed Bath & Beyond. I?ve worn that thing out.

    *****************

    :lol:

  61. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Braun, like every other player in MLB, suffers from the by the lingering cloud of the PED era that has spawned public skepticism. It’s not fair, but it’s reality.

  62. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    That does not mean that reasonable people can’t still believe Braun did steroids.

    They wouldnt be very reasonable if they still thought he did it…
    ——————

    Why not? Look, I frankly don’t care if he did them or not. But it’s a lot more reasonable to believe that his other tests were negative because of commonly used masking agents than to think that someone decided to taint Braun’s sample for laughs.

  63. RayVT February 24th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    The problem with drug testing is a positive result means you are guilty until proven innocent. Procedure to maintain integrity of the samples are required because little thing can make a big difference. Let me say 1st I have never failed a drug test & I have had many both random & otherwise due to the work I do. Also, I have never used drugs so it would be quite disturbing if I were to get a positive result.

    That said I do folks who have gotten false positives. Truly! The reason was based on procedures that weren’t followed & the tainting of samples.

    If the simplest procedure can be ignored what makes one think that the harder ones aren’t as well. The reason things should be kept confidential is based on the law & also the results of broadcasting things convicts the person. In fact if Braun were innocent there is no way he could prove it short of a DNA test & then half the people would still say he was guilty.

    Now I’m not a Braun fan, but who knows who the next person is that protocol gets ignored and a wrong person gets convicted so to speak! I wish these people who leak this crap had to serve a minimum of 5 years in prison. Maybe then we could start to live in a factual or truth driven society.

  64. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Chip,

    “I didn’t do it” isn’t a case though to clear yourself…..what they presented was…..I don’t think that changes whether he did it or not……he left very little wiggle room im his comments….he says he did not do it and basically suggested his sample was doctored …..we shall see.
    ——————–

    Like I said to JF – what motive would someone have to doctor Ryan Braun’s sample?

    We’ve heard lots of athletes who did steroids vehemently deny that they did them: Clemens, Bonds, Palmiero…the bottom line is that Braun’s test was positive. Give me something more likely than that he did steroids to explain that positive test.

  65. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    And for the record – I’m perfectly willing to believe he used some approved medication or supplement that caused a false positive…

    That’s more believable than someone was out to get him.

  66. Bronx Jeers February 24th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    The courier was Matt Kemps cousin!

  67. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Give me something more likely than that he did steroids to explain that positive test.

    Error of procedure, etc. Lots of reasons. Braun has been tested 25 times randomly. Somehow managed to pass all the others. The time he fails its under extremely shady circumstances.

  68. Erin February 24th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    JackCurryYES How happy was Ivan Nova with his bullpen session the other day? He kept the baseball. Nova said it’s not the 1st time he has done that.

  69. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Give me something more likely than that he did steroids to explain that positive test.

    Error of procedure, etc. Lots of reasons. Braun has been tested 25 times randomly. Somehow managed to pass all the others. The time he fails its under extremely shady circumstances.
    —————

    error of procedure etc does not magically put steroids into urine.

    There is no way that you can store urine that would put steroids into it.

    Short of aliens beaming them in from their spaceship there are only four ways they got in there:

    1. He did steroids and uses masking agents (thus explaining the clean other results)
    2. Someone doped his sample intentionally
    3. He took some other form of approved substance that resulted in a false positive
    4. He came down with some sort of ailment that resulted in a false positive

  70. MaineYankee February 24th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Chip

    Like I said to JF – what motive would someone have to doctor Ryan Braun’s sample?

    ——————————————————————————————-

    If they were a Cardinal fan would that be motive?

  71. bruceb February 24th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    I’m sorry, I’m just not buying it. Ryan Braun got off on a technicality, not because the result of the test was incorrect. To my mind, he tested positive and can now be grouped together will all the other cheats out there like Bonds, A-Rod and Manny. To make matters worse for MLB, Manny has tested positive for PEDs three times – yes, THREE – yet there is still a club out there willing to pay him another $500,000 just on the off chance that he might still be able to swing a bat when his suspension ends. Not only does MLB needed to tighten up its procedures, it needs to implement a three strikes and your out rule.

  72. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    error of procedure etc does not magically put steroids into urine.

    There is no way that you can store urine that would put steroids into it.

    Short of aliens beaming them in from their spaceship there are only four ways they got in there:

    1. He did steroids and uses masking agents (thus explaining the clean other results)
    2. Someone doped his sample intentionally
    3. He took some other form of approved substance that resulted in a false positive
    4. He came down with some sort of ailment that resulted in a false positive

    There weren’t STEROIDS in his urine. The result of the test on the urine provided a chemical result large enough to result in the 50 game ban for PEDs, it doesnt mean some scientist is like 8O “Theres a ton of steroids in this pee!!”

    The 5th choice, which you are consistently ignoring is that: 5. Failing to do standard procedure for a scientific test corrupts the method used and results in a false positive.

    It doesnt have to be something in his system. It is the reason standard procedure and scientific validation exist.

  73. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    MaineYankee February 24th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Chip

    Like I said to JF – what motive would someone have to doctor Ryan Braun’s sample?

    ——————————————————————————————-

    If they were a Cardinal fan would that be motive?
    ——————–

    I suppose that’s possible, though also highly unlikely…. ;-)

  74. bruceb February 24th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    Pardon my French. “You’re out”.

  75. Joe from Long Island February 24th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    I can’t watch tv, but let me get this straight- braun said he was framed, and he’s going looking for the real killer, I mean, who tampered with his sample.

    Is he going to go oj and papi for help?

  76. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    “Like I said to JF – what motive would someone have to doctor Ryan Braun’s sample? ”

    I don’t know….maybe to screw over a big leauger? People do bad things all the time with no particular motive.

  77. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    The 5th choice, which you are consistently ignoring is that: 5. Failing to do standard procedure for a scientific test corrupts the method used and results in a false positive.
    ————————

    I’m not ignoring that.

    But the procedure that was broken was one of timing. It isn’t as if they mixed Braun’s urine with someone else’s before testing it.

    The “chemical results” you’re talking about aren’t something that would result simply by letting the urine sit in a fridge over the weekend.

    And that’s not even what Braun challenged – he is only challenging the results to the media and fans. To the panel his argument was that the sample should have been tossed because it wasn’t sent right away as outlined in the CBA.

    It’s like a guy saying, “I’m not saying I didn’t shoot my wife. What I’m saying is that the police didn’t have the right to search my car where they found the murder weapon.”

  78. blake February 24th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Joe,

    He didn’t out and out say that he was framed….but he came close to it…at least that was my impression from the press conference. …..

  79. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    I’m not ignoring that.

    But the procedure that was broken was one of timing. It isn’t as if they mixed Braun’s urine with someone else’s before testing it.

    The “chemical results” you’re talking about aren’t something that would result simply by letting the urine sit in a fridge over the weekend.

    You don’t know that. And Braun won using the only winning strategy available in a drug arbitration hearing. Stop using that as a reason to crucify him. He cannot use any strategy of “I’m really innocent! Trust me!”

  80. GreenBeret7 February 24th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    The only way to improper way to “store” a urine sample is to store in a heated oven or in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnell’s back porch. There is no particular reason for it to be refridgerated. The mistake made was that it wasn’t secured….chain of custody was broken. That’s of the idiots running MLB’s testing process. If the signatures on the seals are intact, the only one that could have tampered with it is the donor.

  81. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    “As a result we know that Braun’s argument to the arbiter isn’t “I didn’t do it” but is instead “the test should have been thrown out” and the arbiter agreed. ”

    This continues to be irrelevant.

    An effective defense is one that most likely will achieve the desired result. Because he didn’t use the “I didn’t do it” defense does not mean he did it.

    “And for the record – I’m perfectly willing to believe he used some approved medication or supplement that caused a false positive…

    “That’s more believable than someone was out to get him.”

    Then doesn’t it seem odd to you he didn’t use the defense you think sounds more reasonable, given you’re accusing him of lying anyway?

    Why would be choose the harder-to-believe lie?

    Maybe because he genuinely believes there was nothing in his system, intentionally or otherwise, to set the alarm off?

  82. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Selig still has a vested interest in the success of the Brewers.

    They just lost Fielder, and stood to lose the only thing they had left basically.

    So the case got “thrown out by the arbiter” and Selig “threw his hands up in a fuss” and everyone moved on.

    This is called having your cake and eating it too.

    Is this totally implausible?

  83. Tom in N.J. February 24th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    The test was thrown out because the test itself was compromised.

  84. blake February 24th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    “Is this totally implausible?”

    unless you’re suggesting the arbiter is corrupt….then yes.

  85. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    The Inquisition, what a show.
    The Inquisition, here we go.
    We know you’re wishin’ that we’d go away!
    So all you Muslims and you Jews
    We got big news for all of yous:
    You’d better change your point of views TODAY!
    ‘Cause the Inquisition’s here and it’s here to stay!

  86. LGY February 24th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Can’t believe how much I agree with stuckey today :D

  87. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    In any forensics case, you have to follow proper procedure or your junk gets thrown out. For example, consider a forensic investigation of a hard drive. If you do not image the drive with a hardware read/write blocker the evidence could be inadmissible because by not using a write blocker it would be possible to add data to the drive in question. Thus anything you find on the drive could be called into question by the defense.

    Same concept. Except now extrapolate that to a medical test , which are much more complex.

  88. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    “Is this totally implausible?”

    No.

    But it does seem like rationalizing a preconceived belief in the face of conflicting evidence.

    “Let me try to come up with a way in which Braun is still guilty that isn’t ‘totally implausible’.”

    Not a virtuous threshold, if you ask me.

  89. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    One thing you can be sure of, Braun will be tested a LOT this year, and if he’s terrible as a result the truth will be obvious. It could be totally circumstantial and it won’t matter.

  90. m February 24th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Ryan Braun says that he win his appeal because “the truth is on my side”

    Keep chanting that mantra Ryan. Maybe you will believe it if you say it enough.

    You won your appeal because the courier messed up by not taking it to any of the FedEx dropped sites.

  91. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    stuckey – Yeah, we were just joking about that around here the other night, figured I would share it :)

    I still hold to my original thoughts on the matter. Braun got herpes.

  92. m February 24th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    *won

    *dropoff

  93. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    You won your appeal because the courier messed up by not taking it to any of the FedEx dropped sites.

    If the truth was on his side, he couldn’t win his appeal with it. So what do you want him to do?

  94. blake February 24th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Braun went in to a lot more detail in his press conference than you’d expect for a guy trying to hide the truth…..maybe he’s just a really good lier….but it seemed like to me he went farther in his comments than someone trying to cover up something…..just my initial take.

  95. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    When it comes to punishment, drug tests are a binary proposition. You’re either 100% innocent (even if you aren’t) or 100% guilty (even if you aren’t). Unfair to expect Braun to use a worse defense just because you think it would be morally better or make you feel easier with the result.

  96. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    “If the truth was on his side, he couldn’t win his appeal with it. So what do you want him to do?”

    Kaffee: Here’s the story: The Goverment’s offering Assault and Conduct Unbecoming. Two years. You’ll be home in six months.

    “Wow, Kaffee, you’re the greatest lawyer in the world. How can we ever thank you?” Fellas, you hear what I just said, you’re going home in six months.

    Dawson: I’m afraid we can’t do that, sir.

    Kaffee: Do what?

    Dawson: Make a deal, sir.

    Kaffee: What are you talking about?

    Dawson: We did nothing wrong, sir. We did our job. If that has consequences, then I accept them. But I won’t say I’m guilty, sir.

    . . .

    Dawson: What do we do then, sir?

    Kaffee: When?

    Dawson: After six months. We’d be dishonorably discharged, right sir?

    Kaffee: Yes.

    Dawson: What do we do then, sir? We joined the corps ’cause we wanted to live our lives by a certain code. And we found it in the corps. And now you’re asking us to sign a piece of paper that says we have no honor. You’re asking us to say we’re not Marines. If a judge and jury decide that what we did was wrong, I’ll accept whatever punishment they give. But I believe I was right, sir . I believe I did my Job. And I won’t dishonor myself, my unit, or the Corps, so that I can go home in six months. Sir.

  97. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    m – You won your appeal because the courier messed up by not taking it to any of the FedEx dropped sites.

    What if he did actually unknowingly trigger the test, and due to the mix-up in the sample’s handling he got off even though MLB’s policy is guilty til proven innocent?

    Is that not the blind hammer of justice?

    The only things that actually matter in this case…
    Braun DID fail one of the tests.
    MLB DID NOT handle the sample properly.
    The sample’s integrity cannot be verified and it must be thrown out.
    Braun has failed no other test to this point and will not be suspended.

    Assuming he’s guilty seems like a preconceived notion. The whole purpose of the process and handling of the samples is so that any test that is not 100% verifiable is not used against a player.

    That system seems to have worked, even while being the reason.

  98. m February 24th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    Well, I suppose he shouldnt really say that he won because of a technicality. :P

    But we will never know the “truth”. This is more like a mistrial, not an aquittal.

    I’m not saying either way that he is guilty or innocent. But the truth didn’t really prevail here. Not until the courier admits that he spiked the sample. Because that’s the only thing that could have happened if Braun didn’t have anything in his system.

  99. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Assuming he’s guilty seems like a preconceived notion

    And just to expand on this point…. the entire process is built so that the ONLY way MLB can “prove” a player is guilty of failing the test is by being able to 100% say that no one tampered with the sample taken. If that process is broken there is no way of telling who or what or when the sample may have been tampered.

    I still don’t think it was actually tampered with though, I think he failed because of his Valtrex prescription. I think the paper trail was a convenient excuse.

  100. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    This is more like a mistrial, not an aquittal.

    This is exactly like an acquittal, because in a real trial you’re innocent until proven guilty, and evidence must follow procedure.

  101. blake February 24th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    The truth will come out on this….too many motivated reporters are going to dig at it until they get at more details.

  102. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    One thing you can be sure of, Braun will be tested a LOT this year, and if he’s terrible as a result the truth will be obvious. It could be totally circumstantial and it won’t matter.
    —————

    I believe the CBA says that testing is random and no player can be singled out for increased testing.

  103. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    I believe the CBA says that testing is random and no player can be singled out for increased testing.

    And then Jose Bautista is ‘randomly’ tested 20 times last year.

  104. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    I believe the CBA says that testing is random and no player can be singled out for increased testing.

    It might say that, but go ask Bautista how random it is. :) Didn’t someone report he’s been tested every single time since he started hitting home runs like Barry Bonds?

  105. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Annnnywaaaaay…..

    Derek Jeter:

    .300 avg over/under:

    .775 OPS over/under:

    90 runs over/under:

  106. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    MLB can appeal the arbitrators’ decision in Federal court, so it’s not exactly like an acquittal, and it’s not exactly like a mistrial either, because if MLB doesn’t pursue that course, he can’t be re-tried.

  107. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Didn’t someone report he’s been tested every single time since he started hitting home runs like Barry Bonds?

    Bautista in an interview on MLB XM said he was randomly tested more than any of his teammates, up to the point of ridiculousness but that he understands it comes with the territory and he is happy that has not failed any of the tests.

  108. jpmatrixfan88 February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Chip, players with prior positive tests are tested much more often. Unless they took this out in the brand new cba.

  109. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    I’m not ignoring that.

    But the procedure that was broken was one of timing. It isn’t as if they mixed Braun’s urine with someone else’s before testing it.

    The “chemical results” you’re talking about aren’t something that would result simply by letting the urine sit in a fridge over the weekend.

    You don’t know that. And Braun won using the only winning strategy available in a drug arbitration hearing. Stop using that as a reason to crucify him. He cannot use any strategy of “I’m really innocent! Trust me!”

    —————–

    Read slowly and carefully – he did not say that the failure to follow procedure resulted in a false positive. He argued that the failure to follow procedure meant the test should never have been performed.

    There’s a world of difference there.

  110. blake February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    If the sample was left to sit…..you must acquitt!

  111. Chip February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    jpmatrixfan88 February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Chip, players with prior positive tests are tested much more often. Unless they took this out in the brand new cba.
    ———–

    Yeah but by virtue of this ruling Braun doesn’t fall under that category.

  112. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    .300 avg over/under:

    .775 OPS over/under:

    90 runs over/under:

    Under, under, over

  113. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    “We feel like he’s very capable of being an everyday catcher,” Mariners manager Eric Wedge said. “We’re fortunate now with Miguel Olivo, we don’t need him to be an everyday catcher this year. We’ve got plenty of time to take it slow with him and help him continue to work towards that.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    wedge was a pretty good hitting ing time minor league catcher and a few cup.s of mlb coffee .

    what a difference from the yankee position on montero.

    the reason that this still matters is if montero does indeed turn into a decent mlb catcher, the yankees will be stuck with girardi and cashman who would have been the ones with the bad analysis.

    if they are proven wrong about montero, what else will they be wrong about?

    it’s going to be very interesting how this plays out.

  114. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    he did not say that the failure to follow procedure resulted in a false positive. He argued that the failure to follow procedure meant the test should never have been performed.

    The former follows the latter. Why do you not do a test if procedure isn’t followed? Because…

  115. blake February 24th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    I think Derek will hit right around .300 again….the power numbers probably won’t get back to where they were pre 2010 though.

  116. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    blake

    What do you think his platoon split will be?

  117. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    randy – That quote is from before Wedge ever even met Montero in person or saw him put on a glove. It’s pretty safe to say he had no idea what he was talking about when he said it.

  118. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    “We’ve got plenty of time to take it slow with him and help him continue to work towards that.”

    What a novel and refreshing approach to development.

  119. m February 24th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    I’m quite surprised at how vehemently MLB is reacting.

    I think it’s more than “they hate to lose”.

    This is a golden opportunity to let this sink to the bottom of the river. Their super star player is not exactly getting the super star treatment

  120. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Isn’t “having plenty of time” the result of being a terrible team? Isn’t that the excuse the Yankees always give? No time to wait, gotta win now?

    Is that what you would prefer? :p

  121. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    ID thats a new quote from camp.

  122. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    “I’m quite surprised at how vehemently MLB is reacting.”

    But, the reason for baseball being so “vehemently opposed”, as Rob Manfred put it, to the Das ruling is that the Braun case was going to be the poster child for Bud Selig to say how impartial the drug policy really is. Not only does it not play favors with star players, it could go after the NL MVP from the club (the Brewers) that Selig once owned.

    http://bizofbaseball.com/index.....;Itemid=39

  123. jacksquat February 24th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    blake February 24th, 2012 at 2:28 pm
    If the sample was left to sit…..you must acquitt!

    +1

  124. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Could’ve swore Montero spent 2 full seasons in AAA.

    I always seem to get those things wrong…

  125. pat February 24th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    The system was flawed so the suspension should have been overturned but saying he is going to take the high road and then insinuating things about the collector seems kind of low road.

    Also him saying I’m an open book and then saying but I can’t discuss chapters 4 through 9 for legal reasons.

  126. Erin February 24th, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    teixeiramark25 Reported to @Yankees camp today and was so impressed with how the team looked. @NickSwisher and Russell Martin are in great shape!

  127. Nick in SF February 24th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    ” what a difference from the yankee position on montero.”

    What was the Yankee position on Montero?

  128. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    “What was the Yankee position on Montero?”

    Who really knows, but some here have suggested (in support of the trade) that if the Yankees thought that he could actually catch, they wouldn’t have traded him.

  129. Tom in N.J. February 24th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    MLB may sue in federal court to get the ruling overturned because “MLB officials believe Das’ ruling was based on a faulty reading of the policy.”

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_.....suspension

  130. Wave Your Hat February 24th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    RayVT-

    Excellent comment at 1:39 pm.

  131. m February 24th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Meh. MLB could have said this:

    “we believe our system is blah, blah, blah. Unfortunately, there was human error in the process. Blah, blah, we will investigate blah blah blah. Continue to improve. Blah blah blah. ”

    Without a word as to Braun. Selig has an out as far as favoritism here. The stupid courier failed to do his job. Supposedly left it in a cool place. On his desk in a Tupperware container.

    Does the collector get pre-printed numbered labels for the containers? If they do then it’s hard to argue that it was tampered with if it arrived intact at the lab.

  132. Wave Your Hat February 24th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    “MLB may sue in federal court to get the ruling overturned because “MLB officials believe Das’ ruling was based on a faulty reading of the policy.””

    They won’t sue. They don’t have a prayer of winning.

  133. MaineYankee February 24th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    randy

    what a difference from the yankee position on montero

    ————————————————————————–

    I think the difference was from you and others calling the Yankees out for keeping Montero in the MiL last year instead of “rushing” him up.

    Interesting how you give more credence to Wedge instead of Girardi and Pena.

    I guess it depends on who says what you want to hear to fit your agenda.

  134. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Oh no!!! His teammates are mentioning him!!!

    “You feel bad that (Jesus) Montero has to leave, but you’re excited you get to have an opportunity to have a guy like that on your team for a long time.” – Jeter

  135. pat February 24th, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Joelsherman1
    Question want Braun to answer: Did failed test leak because own legal team was calling experts hunting loopholes and expert talked? Sense is MLB leaked, but how is that in best interest? Trying to distance Steroid Era, why would want out that 1 of its best failed test?

  136. Tom in N.J. February 24th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    ” insinuating things about the collector seems kind of low road”

    The seals on the test sample were not broken, proof that the collector did not taint it. Could the collector take Braun to court?

  137. stuckey February 24th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    Because we like keeping score of who brings it up, that’s (for today):

    Critic of trade – 1
    Agnostic on trade – 0

  138. Nick in SF February 24th, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    ” Who really knows…”

    The guy who just contrasted the Mariners’ position as derived from Wedge’s quote with the Yankees position?

  139. UnKnown February 24th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    I think Swishalicious is going to be the BOMB this year.

  140. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Were the Yankees not taking their time with Montero already? Repeating AAA wasn’t just for kicks you know…

    The Mariner’s “position” and the Yankee’s were really not different. The only difference is the Yankees said “Montero will catch” for 3-4 years before giving up that dream” and the Mariner’s “bought” him as a catcher.

  141. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    The difference is the Mariners are willing to be patient with him at the major league level. Which the Yankees did not want to do. (or need to do)

  142. Wave Your Hat February 24th, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    I think the fair interpretation of Wedge’s quote is that Montero isn’t going to do much catching this year. And if he doesn’t do much catching this year, what will that mean for next year? Very similar to where Montero stood with the Yanks. In other words, for a catcher, he’s a pretty good DH.

  143. m February 24th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    By all accounts Montero is pretty close to being able to catch at the MLB level.

    IMO if he’s not catching on at least a half-time basis next year, then the Mariners don’t view him as a catcher.

  144. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    “What a novel and refreshing approach to development.”

    blake-

    yes, it is such outside the box thinking… “time to take it slow”

    it might be a rival to moneyball it’s so revolutionary :)

  145. m February 24th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    WYH and I are on the same wave length. :)

    If the trade had not happened, Girardi would be saying the same things as Wedge. And Cashman’s plan would be the same as the Mariner’s. And they would be getting killed for it.

  146. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    And they would be getting killed for it.

    Not by me.

  147. Villa Nova-Ya February 24th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Just a year ago.

    Randy, it sure doesn’t sound to me like a guy who didn’t want Montero to ever catch for the Yankees.

    http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/.....team-25726

    And in an interview on wFAN with francesa in November, Girardi stated that if Montero was with the team, he would catch some games.

    So I don’t see how that is in any way different from what the Mariners are now saying.

    Seems to me the Yankees were always going to bring Montero along slowly if they kept him. As they did with Posada.

  148. m February 24th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    You sure?

    “Why is Martin starting? Why don’t the zyankees use their advantage with offense at the catcher position and get a DH bat that’s better than Martin?!”

    Nothing along those lines? Echoing what we heard in October?

  149. Jerkface February 24th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    I’ve always said starting Montero at ~40 games is fine.

  150. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    “I guess it depends on who says what you want to hear to fit your agenda.”

    maine yankee-

    my agenda ? now what would that be?

    knowing more about the game of baseball is my agenda.

    what’s your’s?

    having a small town biased position against anyone who’s left there to do something beside milk cows?

  151. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    “IMO if he’s not catching on at least a half-time basis next year, then the Mariners don’t view him as a catcher.”

    m-

    you a little smarter than the average blog poster here.

    i’m sure you’ll have no problem understanding that if montero rolls out a .950 OPS or more he’s not going to catch for long because that kind of hitting is too valuable to risk losing it to catching injuries.

    it’s my opinion that if montero doesn’t catch, this will be the reason.

  152. Rich in NJ February 24th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    randy keeps calling me blake…

  153. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    rich in nj-

    sorry about that.

    i’m like casey stengel.

    i can’t remember names :)

  154. Crawdaddy February 24th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    “randy keeps calling me blake…”

    I’m surprise he can remember his own name.

  155. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    crapdaddy-

    i’m good with nicknames though.

    especially when they fit :)

  156. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    oooh randy attacking people that don’t agree with him again, what a fun blog this is.

  157. Irreverent Discourse February 24th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    it’s going to be fun listen to how wrong randy is about everything all season…

    oh wait, when he’s wrong he just disappears for 6 months and doesn’t admit it.

    Nevermind.

    At least we should have a clean 6 months coming to us at some point.

  158. randy l. February 24th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    “oh wait, when he’s wrong he just disappears for 6 months and doesn’t admit it.”

    haaahahahahahhahhahahahahhahahahahahah

    yeah, that’s why i’ve been on this blog continually since the early days of peter abraham.
    who else here has? maybe 4-5?

    but i do apologize to the rest of the blog for engaging with the randy l. haters like crapdaddy, maine yankee, etc

    i agree the blog really is better when people who absolutely can’t stand each other don’t interact .

    with that i’m off for 86 degree golf :)

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