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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Monday morning notes: Big enough to block the sun

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Feb 27, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

CC Sabathia and Michael Pineda are each listed at 6-foot-7. They’re intimidating figures at the best of times. Imagine seeing them on a mound, early in the morning, when you’re facing live pitching for the first time of the spring.

“It was good,” Colin Curtis said. “Because the sun was up there, and they were kind of blocking it.”

Sabathia and Pineda threw live batting practice to Curtis and Melky Mesa. At this point, we all know what to expect from Sabathia, but Pineda is still in the process of making a first impression. It was the slider that most impressed Curtis, but it’s still a little early to get a great read on a pitcher. Curtis said he didn’t see any changeups, but he saw a few thrown to Mesa.

Last time Curtis faced live pitching? It was few weeks before spring training, and he badly wanted to get on a field, so he put together a scrimmage with some high school kids in his home town. Not exactly the kind of thing that prepares a guy for Sabathia and Pineda.

“Facing sophomores is a little different than facing these two guys,” Curtis said.

David Aardsma’s locker is still empty, but he’s now on the schedule for pitchers conditioning. He’s in a group with Mariano Rivera and Rafael Soriano. Aardsma was originally scheduled to arrive today, so he could show up at some point.

Joba Chamberlain said this morning that he’s scheduled to finally throw off a full mound tomorrow. He’ll do standard long toss and flat ground, then he’ll throw 20 pitches off a mound. He said the mound has felt huge during PFP, so he’s looking forward to making it feel familiar again.

Tomorrow’s early batting practice pitchers are Dave Robertson and Boone Logan. They’ll be pitching to David Adams and Corban Joseph.

Today’s batting practice pitchers:

Field 1
Phil Hughes (to Russell Martin)
Hiroki Kuroda (to Russell Martin)
Manny Banuelos (to Jose Gil)
Dellin Betances (to Kyle Higashioka)

Field 2
Freddy Garcia (to Gustavo Molina)
Cory Wade (to Gustavo Molina)
D.J. Mitchell (to J.R. Murphy)
Cesar Cabral (to Gary Sanchez)

Today’s batting practice groups are the same as yesterday. They’ll probably stay the same for a while now.

Group 1
Robinson Cano, Derek Jeter, Brandon Laird, Eduardo Nunez

Group 2
Eric Chavez, Ramiro Pena, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, Doug Bernier

Group 3
Russell Branyan, Bill Hall, Jayson Niz, Jorge Vazquez, David Adams

Group 4
Francisco Cervelli, Jose Gil, Austin Romine, Gary Sanchez

Group 5
Brett Gardner, Curtis Granderson, Raul Ibanez, Andruw Jones, Nick Swisher

Group 6
Chris Dickerson, Justin Maxwell, Cole Garner, Dewayne Wise

Group 7
Zoilo Almonte, Colin Curtis, Melky Mesa, Corban Joseph

Group 8
Kyle Higashioka, Russell Martin, J.R. Murphy, Gustavo Molina

Same fielding groups too:

Group 1
C: Kyle Higashioka, Russell Martin, Gustavo Molina, J.R. Murphy
INF: Russell Branyan, Robinson Cano, Eric Chavez, Bill Hall, Derek Jeter, Brandon Laird, Eduardo Nunez
OF: Zoilo Almonte, Colin Curtis, Curtis Granderson, Raul Ibanez, Andruw Jones, Justin Maxwell

Group 2
C: Francisco Cervelli, Jose Gil, Austin Romine, Gary Sanchez
INF: David Adams, Doug Bernier, Corban Joseph, Jayson Nix, Ramiro Pena, Alex Rodriguez, Mark Teixeira, Jorge Vazquez
OF: Chris Dickerson, Brett Gardner, Cole Garner, Melky Mesa, Nick Swisher, Dewayne Wise

It seems that everyone made it through photo day with no problems. I’m sure that’s always a big concern.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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93 Responses to “Monday morning notes: Big enough to block the sun”

  1. Chip February 27th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Chip February 27th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Two things working against the Cano contract getting done before he’s a FA:

    1. How do you offer him a new deal when you didn’t do it for Derek, Jorge, Mariano, etc when they were in their primes?

    2. How does Cashman turn to Boras and say that they want to start negotiations when he flat out humiliated Boras in the press for even suggesting that the Yankees tear up the two option years on Cano’s deal and start working on a new contract?

  2. dogface February 27th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    1. How do you offer him a new deal when you didn’t do it for Derek, Jorge, Mariano, etc when they were in their primes?
    =================================

    Different times. Different CBA. Precedent already set when they did it for Sabathia.

  3. dogface February 27th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    2. How does Cashman turn to Boras and say that they want to start negotiations when he flat out humiliated Boras in the press for even suggesting that the Yankees tear up the two option years on Cano’s deal and start working on a new contract?

    ======================================

    Godfather rules apply. It’s business, not personal.

  4. blake February 27th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    “1. How do you offer him a new deal when you didn’t do it for Derek, Jorge, Mariano, etc when they were in their primes?”

    Yea as DF says I don’t think you can worry about that….its a different time. They can’t continue to operate as they were and budget towards a set payroll limit…..their old policy is outdated given the new CBA

  5. blake February 27th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    That Aardsma signing could turn out nice

  6. Tackelberry February 27th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    I agree Blake. Just like Jon Lieber in 2004

  7. blake February 27th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    If the Yankees wait on Cano I can definitely see a major potential problem on the horizon in the winter of 2013……I don’t think they can allow Cano to go in to that offseason unsigned if they are serious about getting under the soft cap….

  8. Tackelberry February 27th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    When is Granderson’s contract up?

  9. dogface February 27th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    When is Granderson’s contract up?

    ==============================

    After 2013 season

  10. Chip February 27th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    dogface February 27th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    2. How does Cashman turn to Boras and say that they want to start negotiations when he flat out humiliated Boras in the press for even suggesting that the Yankees tear up the two option years on Cano’s deal and start working on a new contract?

    ======================================

    Godfather rules apply. It’s business, not personal
    ———————-

    Humiliate Boras and he’s going to make you pay.

  11. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    blake – Something to keep in mind RE Cano is that… he already took one of these “deals” and let the Yankees buy up his ARb and first FA years… asking or even expecting him to take a second sweetheart deal for the Yankees might be a little much.

    Obviously they should be trying to get him to take such a deal, but I don’t think him actually accepting it is in the cards.

  12. Bronx Jeers February 27th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Boras is going to make you pay either way.

  13. blake February 27th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    “asking or even expecting him to take a second sweetheart deal for the Yankees might be a little much.”

    With 2 years until free agency and with him nearing 30 I don’t think 8/160+ is much of a sweetheart deal…..that’s pretty close to market value.

  14. Chip February 27th, 2012 at 11:02 am

    My guess – 5 years $120 mil.

  15. Chip February 27th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Bronx Jeers February 27th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Boras is going to make you pay either way.
    ————–

    Agreed – but if you turn to him and suggest redoing the contract 6 months after mocking him for suggesting the same thing – I think he’s going to suggest Cano test the market.

    Robbie is easily going to be the best 2b available.

    Of course the market at that point could be pretty thin – Boston’s set. Texas is set. Tigers have already spent big on their corners so who knows what they’ll have left. Angels have Howie Kendrick. Phillies will still have Utley under contract.

    Marlins, Cubs, Nationals, Reds could all be interested.

  16. CountryClub February 27th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Jack Curry ? @JackCurryYES
    Your 2B and SS for pitcher’s fielding practice on Field 3? Andy Pettitte and Ron Guidry

  17. CountryClub February 27th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    I’m glad to see that Pettitte decided to help out this yr.

  18. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    blake – Certainly close to market value, but a far cry from the $50-$70mil you wanted to save earlier. Tempered expectation on the deal he would actually take is fine with me :)

  19. austinmac February 27th, 2012 at 11:39 am

    The Yankees never before have had to worry over losing their own free agents if they wanted to re-sign them. That seems quite different as the Yankees stand to potentially lose some or all of Cano, Swisher, Martin and Granderson.

    If the Yankees put the $189M goal before winning, they will rue the day. If the Yankees start losing, income will take a nose dive. Just ask the Mets.

    I understand the huge money savings they can get, but in my opinion, it is dwarfed by the potential income loss. They will be unable to replace these players from within, except perhaps Martin, for several years. Further, I don’t see any cheap options becoming available.

  20. blake February 27th, 2012 at 11:44 am

    “blake – Certainly close to market value, but a far cry from the $50-$70mil you wanted to save earlier.”

    Again its the years. If they sign him now for 8 years (buying out the club options)….then that potentially saves 2-3 years on the length of time they have to pay him….if they wait then they’ll have 2012+2013+ his new 8 or 9 year deal. Those 2 or 3 additional years coukd cost them 40+ million and that’s where I got that…..not from the AAV

  21. CountryClub February 27th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    austinmac February 27th, 2012 at 11:39 am
    The Yankees never before have had to worry over losing their own free agents if they wanted to re-sign them. That seems quite different as the Yankees stand to potentially lose some or all of Cano, Swisher, Martin and Granderson.

    If the Yankees put the $189M goal before winning, they will rue the day. If the Yankees start losing, income will take a nose dive.

    ————————–

    Honestly, I dont think the 189m will stop them from signing Cano or Granderson. If they want to sign them, they will. But want is the key word. I think they’ll pony up big bucks if they think the deal is fair. But I’d be shocked if they gave Cano more than 6 years or Granderson more than 5. Other teams probably will offer more years (probably a bigger total deal but less per yr), so it’ll be up to the players to decide if they want to stay or not.

  22. blake February 27th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    “If the Yankees put the $189M goal before winning,”

    If they win I don’t think itll matter……but if they don’t then Yankee fans will revolt and show their displeasure by not showing up to the park and not watching on TV….which h would cost the Yanks much more money than the taxes from MLB.

  23. blake February 27th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    “Honestly, I dont think the 189m will stop them from signing Cano or Granderson.”

    Im not so sure about that….

  24. BIG AL February 27th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    blake -

    Even the Duke women kick the lady Tar Heels butt, lol.

    Sorry blake, but this is Duke’s year, the Heels are too soft.

  25. CountryClub February 27th, 2012 at 11:54 am

    My guess is that Cano comes back and Granderson does not. But we’re talking about 2 seasons before we have to worry about this. So I’ll put it off until then.

  26. blake February 27th, 2012 at 11:55 am

    “Sorry blake, but this is Duke’s year, the Heels are too soft.”

    We’ll see

  27. stuckey February 27th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    “Of course the market at that point could be pretty thin – Boston’s set. Texas is set. ”

    Ian Kinsler is a FA after 2013.

    Texas is looking very much like the Yankees. They’re going for cost controlled in the rotation.

    Hamilton, Kinsler, Napoli, Young, Cruz, Torrealba, Feldman and Lewis all become free agents before 2014.

    Andrus and Harrison then reach free agency in 2015.

  28. blake February 27th, 2012 at 11:57 am

    “My guess is that Cano comes back and Granderson does not. But we’re talking about 2 seasons before we have to worry about this. So I’ll put it off until then.”

    As fans we can do that……but the Yanks better be thinking about it now though or they could end up with a problem in two years.

  29. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    If the Yankees put the $189M goal before winning, they will rue the day.

    Why?

    Why is everyone making such a huge fuss about this ridiculous number 3 years down the road?

    They are currently spending $30mil on Mo/Soriano/Feliciano. None of those contracts will exist in 2014. They would already almost be under the cap. A-Rods contract gets cheaper as it goes.

    Stop fussing. Use your heads and think this out a little bit.

  30. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    “8They are currently spending $30mil on Mo/Soriano/Feliciano. None of those contracts will exist in 2014. They would already almost be under the cap. A-Rods contract gets cheaper as it goes.”

    First….its off AAV so Arod will always count 27.5 towards the luxury tax……2nd…..they are going to have to fill out somewhere close to 35 roster spots with about 60-80 million dollars…….its doable of course…..but whether it’ll be doable while keeping the team a championship contender is the question.

    This is something you have to plan carefully for and hopefully the Yanks are…..

  31. BIG AL February 27th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    This talk about Cano is just plain silly, Cano is, and will always be a New York Yankee.

  32. Rich in NJ February 27th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    “This talk about Cano is just plain silly, Cano is, and will always be a New York Yankee.”

    Yes, but the issue is, will they maximize whatever leverage they have and get the most cost-effective contract that expires while Cano is likely to be closer to his peak production. In order to do that, the Yankees have to get a contract done (assuming Boras/Cano are amenable to negotiate) sooner than than later. These are open questions.

  33. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    blake – 35 roster spots with about 60-80 million dollars…….its doable of course…..but whether it’ll be doable while keeping the team a championship contender is the question.

    Go break down what they spent on each roster spot for the 2009, 2010, 2011 seasons and get back to me. They are already doing this. They have had bad contracts on the books that they must avoid int he future, and they have overpaid the hell out of a few aging veterans which going forward will not be a great idea.

    It’s not going to stop them from “being competitive” at $189mil, that’s a completely absurd notion. Especially with almost every bad contract they have being off the books by that year already.

  34. stuckey February 27th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    “I understand the huge money savings they can get, but in my opinion, it is dwarfed by the potential income loss. They will be unable to replace these players from within, except perhaps Martin, for several years. Further, I don’t see any cheap options becoming available.”

    I think a reasonable hypothesis of what the Yankees are trying to accomplish is a relatively high value starting rotation/bullpen and then assess from there.

    Offensively, what fans need to realize is how much one season can change the landscape. If any of the LOW A guys has a monster year(s) and maybe finishes the year at high A. Remember, AA has become the new AAA in recent years. A name or two could be much closer to the big leagues than we anticipate now.

    Teixeira could have a big bounce back year. Gardner, Pena and/or Martin could take a step forward. Arod could show something that changes expectations for 2013-2014. Maybe Jones presents himself as a stop-gap outfield option for 2013-2014. All the your arms could really make themselves even more attractive trade options.

    It’s just not reliable to try go predict the urgency of the Yankees offensive needs right now.

  35. ET February 27th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    They also will likely lose Swisher and have to replace his production

    Grandy is going to demand $20+ million for 5-6 years if he keeps up his level of production. They’ll need a SS to replace Jeter. Martin is a FA and going to be more expensive to keep or if they go after a more expensive C (Miguel Montero), it will cost them even more.

    Robertson is going to up for a new deal soon and make a hell of a lot more than he is making now. If Hughes pitches like the 20 game winner Cashman says, he will no longer be cost-controlled. Won’t Pineda be arb. eligible in a couple years too… and he’s obviously going to make more than 400K if he pitches well.

    so it will all even itself out

  36. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Why was there no concern about the $40mil a year Montero will be demanding in arbitration in 2014?

  37. BIG AL February 27th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Rich –

    I understand your point, but, the Yankees will not talk contract untill the season is over. This is how they operate, and they are not about to change for Cano. It will get done, and be fair to both sides, this is what I believe, and I have no doubts Cano whats to be a Yankee for life, and he alone will decide his future, not Boras.

  38. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    “Go break down what they spent on each roster spot for the 2009, 2010, 2011 seasons and get back to me.”

    Were their payrolls under 189 million for luxury tax those years? Supposedly its close to 225 million this year for luxury tax purposes

  39. stuckey February 27th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    “First….its off AAV so Arod will always count 27.5 towards the luxury tax……2nd…..they are going to have to fill out somewhere close to 35 roster spots with about 60-80 million dollars…….its doable of course…..but whether it’ll be doable while keeping the team a championship contender is the question.”

    Perhaps, but keep in mind those 5 roster spots are a pretty good head start on being competitive. They may not be ideally cost effective, but CC-Tex-Arod-Cano-whoever you got in the 5th spot may not be at the height of their abilities, but they’ll likely give you relatively solid production.

    So, then, if teams lie Tampa can compete with $42m for 40 roster spots, why can’t the Yankees be really, really good with $80 for 35 spots, PLUS all the production from the top 5 spots added on top of that?

  40. austinmac February 27th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    ID,

    The point of discussing 2014 is becasue they could try to ameliorate the problem by trying for favorable deals now rather than waiting until their players reach free agency. That is how every team in baseball, except the Yankees are trying to control cost of high end players.

    They need to cut, per RAB, $40M is payroll to reach $189M. Yes, that will be very difficult as arbitration will cause their non-free agents to increase in cost. Too many roster spots to fill for them to expend a lot on individual players. I expect Cano to stay, but doubt the others.

    I certainly hope their is a plan to restock with low cost, young MLB players. Of course, every one in baseball is looking for them as well.

  41. trisha - true pinstriped blue February 27th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    This is just to verify to myself that I actually still exist! My company, who got here on Monday to stay a few days, ended up staying until yesterday. I guess I must be a magnificent hostess.

    I’ve basically missed the entire week of posting so will assume that nothing out-of-the-ordinary has happened with our Yanks or with anything else.

  42. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    ID,

    If they sign Cano they’ll have around 100 million for 2014 tied up in 5 players…..that’s 35 spots you have to fill out…..now some teams payrolls are less than 89 million….but will the Yanks be able to fill those spots well enough to stay a championship team? That’s the question and a big part of the answer will likely be based on how their young pitching pans out.

  43. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    austinmac – 3 years ago you could not have predicted the roster construction or cost today, why do people think they can do that in 2014?

  44. austinmac February 27th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    trisha,

    I will give you an update on what you missed.

    The Montero trade was moronic. Montero is iconic. Pineda will be demonic(a reliever).

    If it feels like you heard all that before, you will know you used your time wisely elsewhere.

  45. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    “Perhaps, but keep in mind those 5 roster spots are a pretty good head start on being competitive.”

    True….and I think they CAN do it…..but its going to take careful planning and some luck on prospect side IMO.

  46. champ809 February 27th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    The only one of the four- Cano, Grandy, Swisher and Martin – that the Yanks are concerned with or at least the priority is Cano as he’s a legacy player with an obvious HOF arc to his career and should be the next lifelong Yankee great. For him the will open up the vault if he has 2 more years like his last 2.

    Cano also understands the value for him for being a lifelong Yankee and mentioned alongside Jeter and Mo in a way that even AROd can’t be as he’s worn various other unis.

    I’m sure that if he repeats his last year or comes close to it over the next 2 years the yanks will be interested in keeping him around for a couple more years but with guys like Mason Williams, Heathcott, Ravel Santana and to a lesser extent Abe Almonte they will be more than covered if he gets priced out of their budget for him. Same with Russel Martin.

    Swisher, because of timing, may have mor of a shot to come back after next season off a big year but I doubt the Yanks would go more than 3yrs @ 13-15mm with him and would probably prefer 2yrs.

    Robbie’s a different beast totally to those other dudes…

  47. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Finding a cost controlled (and good outfielder ) to replace Swisher long term would be a big help and that should be Cash’s focus right now…..however Im not sure the type of player Im talking about exists or is available right now.

  48. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    blake – So, careful planning and a little bit of luck on prospects is not how every team becomes successful? Regardless of the payroll?

    It’s a lot of worry about such a small thing. These are not bad problems to have. The Yankees have too many good players and will have to figure out how to pay them all appropriately. Such is the life of a GM.

    Without the $30-40million in bad contracts or completely shelved pitchers lingering around anymore, alot of money is going to cleanly disappear from the Yankee payroll.

    Having a young cost controlled pitching staff is going to be the greatest benefit towards keeping the payroll under control. The lineup is always going to cost money until they start churning out position players… which they do not seem to be in a rush to do.

  49. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    “For him the will open up the vault if he has 2 more years like his last 2.”

    Yes….and if he does that and the Yankees wait until he hits free agency then you may just see Boras demand a Prince Fielder contract for a guy that’s 30 years old…..

  50. Rich in NJ February 27th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    AL

    In the aftermath of the new CBA and their reported desire to get under the $189m threshold by 2014, they need to rethink their position to maximize their available funds.

    If you’re a Giants fan, you may recall that George Young refused to negotiate with impending free agents in the early ’90s when a new CBA was oming into effect after the season. If he had negotiated before that season ended, he could have saved future cap space. He refused, and it cost the franchise for years.

    The Yankees are not in as dire a situation, but the same thinking applies:

    Old ways of doing business must give way to new paradigms imposed by new CBA, or there will be unnecessary costs to pay.

  51. stuckey February 27th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    “now some teams payrolls are less than 89 million….but will the Yanks be able to fill those spots well enough to stay a championship team? That’s the question and a big part of the answer will likely be based on how their young pitching pans out.”

    Tampa has made the postseason 3 of the last 4 years (in the supposed “toughest division in baseball), with:

    2011: $ 42,171,308
    2010: $ 72,847,133
    2009: $ 63,313,034
    2008: $ 43,745,597

    Not seeing the argument that the Yankees can’t be “championship contenders” with NO LESS than $117 more million.

    There just seems to be a lack of perspective, or math, to that argument.

    This is essentially suggesting in terms of postseason play, $100-120m gains you essentially nothing. You can make the PS for $70m, but to have a chance at the WS, you need to be well over $120m more than that?

    That’s a LOT of payroll for 11 postseason wins.

    Doesn’t add up.

  52. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    blake – So, careful planning and a little bit of luck on prospects is not how every team becomes successful? Regardless of the payroll?”

    That helps….most teams have longer than two years to plan their future and most teams don’t try and win the WS every year legitimately.

  53. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    ,Having a young cost controlled pitching staff is going to be the greatest benefit towards keeping the payroll under control.”

    That’s the hope

  54. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    blake – So you see a lack of foresight in Cashman’s plan since 2009? I see a revolving door of age moving on, talent moving up in price, and lots of cheap players to fill in the gaps.

    Add in the fact that there is almost no reason for the Yankees to take on a Burnett or Pavano-type contract for like the next 5 years. They can look for CC level talent, and pass on everything else.

    This is going to be beautiful.

  55. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Obviously the status quo won’t cut it, but I don’t even believe in it. Baseball is evolving with the new CBA and GM’s will evolve their game-planning along with it.

    No one had the total foresight to plan ahead for this $189mil “soft-cap” as there are other teams in the league with more money and way worse contracts already on paper for that season. That the Yankees will somehow be hindered by only having all-star caliber players at say… 6 of the 9 positions instead of 8 or the 9 positions… this is going to stop them from competing? Boston won’t be able to either by that sentiment… Nor LAA, Nor Texas… So who is going to be “competing” when this proverbial turd hits the fan?

  56. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    ‘Not seeing the argument that the Yankees can’t be “championship contenders” with NO LESS than $117 more million”

    I.didn’t day they couldn’t ….I said it might ne hard and they’ll need a ‘Tampa like” cheap and hood rotation to do it

  57. champ809 February 27th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Edit

    I’m sure that if Grandy repeats his last year or comes close to it over the next 2 years the yanks will be interested…

  58. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    “blake – So you see a lack of foresight in Cashman’s plan since 2009? I see a revolving door of age moving on, talent moving up in price, and lots of cheap players to fill in the gaps.”

    No….I see that the rules have changed and the Yankees arr going to have to adapt…..Cashman didn’t know about this CBA in 2009.

  59. stuckey February 27th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    I’d also add the Yankees payroll has NOT proven to be any advantage IN the postseason, since it reached it’s effective peak in 2005.

    If you think roster construction plays a major roll in defying luck in the postseason tournament, you should be advocating the Yankees rethinking their model in future years.

    $189m should still provide enough depth to be one of the best teams in the AL year-in and year-out.

    There is no evidence to support escalating spending to try to go no worse than 11-8 in the postseason is an effective strategy.

  60. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    “If you think roster construction plays a major roll in defying luck in the postseason tournament, you should be advocating the Yankees rethinking their model in future years”.

    I am

  61. Tom in N.J. February 27th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Guy’s the Yankees are essentially playing with a 189 million dollar payroll right now. Cots has the Yankees payroll at 205 million bucks.

    Feliciano’s 4 million + 11 million for A.J. is 15 million in sunk costs, which brings the payroll to about 190.

  62. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    I think we all are advocating that blake, to some degree or another… You just see a greater hindrance in constructing that “competitive” team than we do. I think that’s the only difference.

    I think the soft cap will stop them from giving out some of the more bone-headed contracts they have recently, and without those their payroll would already be under this mark.

  63. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    I think currently the Rangers are the best mix of money and development…..the Yankees coukd be that only bigger and better and that’s what they should be shooting for.

  64. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “Guy’s the Yankees are essentially playing with a 189 million dollar payroll right now. Cots has the Yankees payroll at 205 million bucks.”

    Axisa estimated it at 225 for the luxury tax…….which is what will matter…..

  65. pat February 27th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    JackCurryYES
    Being around Yanks, Pettitte admitted that he thinks about a comeback. But then he reminds himself that he retired to be with the family.

  66. Crawdaddy February 27th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “I think currently the Rangers are the best mix of money and development…..the Yankees coukd be that only bigger and better and that’s what they should be shooting for.”

    Lets’ be honest, the Rangers coming out of bankruptcy helped them too. Let’s see where the Rangers are a few more years down the road after they’ve been in the deep end of the pool like the Yankees have been all these years.

  67. CountryClub February 27th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    The new rules for the draft are going to hurt teams like Tampa, Minn & KC just as much if not more than the Yanks, Sox, Phillies, etc…

    MLB will look far different in 5 yrs than it does now. It won’t be an unpredictable as the NFL from season to season. But it will less predictable than it is now.

  68. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    “I think we all are advocating that blake, to some degree or another… You just see a greater hindrance in constructing that “competitive” team than we do. I think that’s the only difference.”

    Again I think it can be done….I just think some things are going to have to break right…..and honestly I don’t even care if they don’t put the 27 Yankees on the field in 2014 so long as the overall health of the organization is good and they will be able to remain championship contenders long term.

  69. CountryClub February 27th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:39 pm
    “Guy’s the Yankees are essentially playing with a 189 million dollar payroll right now. Cots has the Yankees payroll at 205 million bucks.”

    Axisa estimated it at 225 for the luxury tax…….which is what will matter…..

    ——-

    Correct. The luxury tax cap isn’t based on just the payroll of the 25 man roster.

  70. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    “Let’s see where the Rangers are a few more years down the road after they’ve been in the deep end of the pool like the Yankees have been all these years”

    They are still way under the luxury tax threshold and have a nice TV deal…..I get your point but I think they are here to stay as a contender…..

  71. champ809 February 27th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    the 2014 Yankee infield could look like this…

    1B- Tex (22mm)
    2B- Dave Adams ( 500k )
    SS- Nunez ( 1mm )
    3B- Cano (20mm)
    DH- ARod ( 27.5mm )
    C- Romine/Sanchez ( 1mm combined )

    outfield

    LF- Gardner ( 8mm )
    CF- Heathcott ( 500k )
    RF- Swish ( 13mm )

    SP- CC ( 24MM )
    – Pineda ( 7mm )
    – Hughes ( 7MM )
    – Banuelos ( 500k )
    – Bettances ( 500k )

    CL- Joba ( 5mm )
    RP- Robbie (4mm )

  72. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Being around Yanks, Pettitte admitted that he thinks about a comeback. But then he reminds himself that he retired to be with the family.”

    Lefty reliever!

  73. Crawdaddy February 27th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    “They are still way under the luxury tax threshold and have a nice TV deal…..I get your point but I think they are here to stay as a contender…..”

    The new TV deal kicks in a few years from now, but the new CBA has also curtailed their ability to spend like they’ve done in the IFA and draft.

  74. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Axisa estimated it at 225 for the luxury tax…….which is what will matter…..

    No it won’t. Why would it?

    They have effectively been “playing with” a sub $200mil payroll on the active roster for the last 3 years… and they have been fine. Obviously you hope for less injuries and smarter contracts int he future. There is zero reason I can see to think they won’t be equally as competitive as they have been, if not more-so because their resources are more focused.

  75. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    “The new TV deal kicks in a few years from now, but the new CBA has also curtailed their ability to spend like they’ve done in the IFA and draft.”

    Very true…..and that could be an issue for everyone. Good scouting and development is going to be extremely important in the future…..picking the right guys

  76. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    “They have effectively been “playing with” a sub $200mil payroll on the active roster for the last 3 years… ”

    How you figure?

  77. stuckey February 27th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    And again, pretty much the ENTIRE Rangers everyday line-up will be free agents by 2015, most by 2014. Hamilton carries significant risk, and signs are they ay be headed for a contentious negotiation.

  78. blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Stuckey,

    That’s unavoidable ….but they have a pretty good farm system too

  79. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    blake – Does Texas have some swarth of “developed talent” that I am currently unaware of?

    Feliz – Undrafted amateur FA
    Andrus – Amateur FA by the Braves
    Darvish – IFA
    Holland – Legit prospect they developed
    Borbon – A Drafted disappointment currently being outplayed by Brett Gardner
    Harrison – Drafted by the Braves
    Moreland – Drafted, still young, looks decent but not a ton of upside here
    Ogando – Rule 5 pick they turned into a pitcher, has essentially no innings history built up and his arm should fall off in 3…2…1…
    Kinsler – Their pride and joy, will be out of contract as a 32 year old 2B before 2014.

  80. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    blake February 27th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
    “They have effectively been “playing with” a sub $200mil payroll on the active roster for the last 3 years… ”

    How you figure?

    They’ve been paying nearly $40mil in pitchers to basically not play for them.. for the last like 5 years?

  81. stuckey February 27th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    “I think the soft cap will stop them from giving out some of the more bone-headed contracts they have recently, and without those their payroll would already be under this mark.”

    Agree AND disagree with an explanation.

    One thing we have to remember is the Yankees HAVE been paying a significant amount of luxury tax since it was introduced. In recent years, every new contract they have signed essentially came with a 30-40% rider attached.

    Kuroda is making $10m but he’s costing the Yanks $14m.

    The Yankees HAVE maintained an essentially static payroll for 7 seasons and within that framework they’ve been curtailing the luxury tax bill, to a new low last season.

    Smack dab in the middle of that effort they had their most successful season since the dawn of the luxury tax.

    So 1.) Things are NOT that different as the recent alarmist nature of the discourse suggests.

    Things have NOT changed on a dime.

    2.) Things are a little different, there is now a different INCENTIVE (tax rate reset, revenue share rebate) to get to a specific number.

    One hopes that this does create a different atmosphere where Cashman isn’t compelled to spend $5m on loogys, a contract like Burnett’s is rethought, and the owner doesn’t override the GM on contracts like Arod’s and Sorianos’.

    The Yankees be more conscious of their spending not only doesn’t frighten me, I can see advantages from out of it.

    If the 2014 incentives are a catalyst for the Yankees to rethink their spending of the past, I think actual good can come of it.

  82. ac1 February 27th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    “Honestly, I dont think the 189m will stop them from signing Cano or Granderson.”

    Im not so sure about that….

    ___

    Cano yes
    Granderson may be harder to see staying.

  83. blake February 27th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    “blake – Does Texas have some swarth of “developed talent” that I am currently unaware of?”

    Really good farm system currently….though that’s only part of the equation.

  84. blake February 27th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    I”f the 2014 incentives are a catalyst for the Yankees to rethink their spending of the past, I think actual good can come of it”

    Absolutely ….if it makes them smarter andthe more efficient then sure…..but for now there is still an IF in that statement

  85. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    blake – Gotcha, just wasnt sure if I was missing something. They got really lucky with that year 1 of the Beltre contract worked out for them… his contract can be just as bad if not worse than some of the Yankees deals (like Teixeira for instance).

  86. ac1 February 27th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Also if the yankees start pulling out of these assinine contracts, other teams will too.
    Short of the Pujols’s and the Fielders of the world i dont see lots more 10 year ridiculous aav contracts in the future.

  87. BIG AL February 27th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    I’m an old guy that yearns for the old days of just watching and enjoying the game of baseball.

    I’m not saying it’s wrong, or not good, but todays game is picked apart by so many different numbers and stats, that I just don’t get into that much.

    Way back when, a player played every season for his next years contract, you always got the best out of that player. Today you hear things like; He’s in his walk year, so expect he’ll have a good year, etc.

    If I were so fortunate as to have the ability to be a top MLB player, I’d play every game as if it might be my last, and leave everything I had on the field. In my mind, long term contracts have done harm to the game, and made some players coast, rather than give it their all. If all players gave to the game like Jeter, you’d see a much better played game by both sides, JMO.

    I just hope whatever is necessary to keep Cano in NY is done, Robbie is now the face of this team, and will be going forward.

  88. blake February 27th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    “They’ve been paying nearly $40mil in pitchers to basically not play for them.. for the last like 5 years?”

    Last year they paid 12 I think to players that weren’t playing for them (Igawa, Marte, Feliciano)……..they still will have a lot of positions to fill with less money than they are used to spending……if their prospects and young players perform it shouldn’t be a problem…..my ultimate point is that they aren’t going to have as much wiggle room if they don’t as they’ve had in the past.

  89. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    blake- As long as they dont sign any more Soriano or Burnett/Pavano-like contracts they should be fine. The wiggle-room as been created by Pineda/Hughes/Nova backed up by B’s/Warren/Phelps/etc. all on the cusp here. They should only have to pay one pitcher (maybe 2 if they go for hamels) more than $10mil in 2014.

  90. blake February 27th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    ” The wiggle-room as been created by Pineda/Hughes/Nova backed up by B’s/Warren/Phelps/etc. all on the cusp here.”

    I agree that’s the plan….but its not fool proof so we will have to wait and see.

  91. Irreverent Discourse February 27th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Sure it’s not fool-proof, but a lot of times you seem to treat it like there is no plan, and no hope… which is not the case.

  92. willwill February 27th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    I saw everyone today but cano, not sure where he was, some my twitter will759227 i put up some pics.. Jeter fist bumped a little kid on the 3rd baseline at the stadium, which was pretty cool of him to come over and chat with the kids a few moments (nothing new). It was funny to see all the people on the 1st base side start to come over to the 3rd base side. It was pretty obvious jeter was the only one in the groups, dunno where cano was, and jeter would stand inside the foul line and was friendly with everyone.

    Mo probably signed for an hour… on the 3rd field, i have an awesome MO smiling pic on the twitter.

    All in all it was worth the ride this morning. Considering i live in tampa, it was a about time i drove my self from carollwood.

  93. willwill February 27th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Banuelos looked impressive. I think tex was only person that may of even hit anything solid off him, and it was a hard hit ball towards 2nd base on the ground.


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