The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Back on the mound

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 28, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Dave Robertson and Boone Logan are scheduled to face hitters this morning, but today’s batting practice to watch might be thrown by a guy not on the roster. If Andy Pettitte does get to throw to some hitters today, you can bet there will be plenty of people paying attention. It’ll be nothing but BP fastballs over the middle of the plate, but still… It will be Pettitte, in uniform, on a mound.

“I know he’s thrown a lot to his son, so he shouldn’t get worn out,” Joe Girardi said. “We’ll find out though.”

Derek Jeter laughed at the idea yesterday, but Pettitte seemed to like it. How would Pettitte feel throwing BP to his former shortstop?

“I don’t know, we’ll see,” Pettitte said. “I won’t hit him.”

Comments

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361 Responses to “Back on the mound”

  1. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Continuity is a good thing.

    :)

  2. jacksquat February 28th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Andy should throw one behind Jeter’s back the first pitch. :D

  3. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    Dogface-

    These are Gerardo Parra’s stats. The question by Blake was does Cahman look for a young OF’er?

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/.....ardo-parra

    The Yankees will need to decide what directioon they’ll go to be under the new LT of 189M in 2014. Resign Swisher? Look toward an extension for Granderson when Cano is up for one alsoo at the same time? When does Gardner become a FA?

    I agree that Swisher offers more offensively this year than Parra. Parra is a pretty solid player, young, and cost controlled.

  4. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Chamberlain throws off a full mound:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....94e70.html

  5. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    YT-

    He is ahead of schedule.

    Another weapon out of an already strong pen.

    I can’t believe he was pitching for quite some time with TJ damage and didn’t even seem to know it.

    The guy must have very high pain tolerance ?

  6. jacksquat February 28th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Gardner is a free agent after the 2014 season. He was first time arb eligible this offseason and got a raise to 2.8 mil.

  7. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:15 am

    MTU-

    Starting rotation 2014
    Sabathia
    Pineda
    Banuelos
    Hughes
    Chamberlain

    Bullpen
    Betances
    Robertson
    Fill in the rest

  8. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Here’s a radical plan :

    Move Cano to RF

    Jeter to 2B

    Nunez to SS

    :)

  9. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:16 am

    OOPs I forgot Nova!

  10. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Would Cano be better at 3rd? He throws righty?

  11. randy l. February 28th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    the yankees are loaded.

    the yankees will make the playoffs

    that said, hughes saga has been a long one

    here’s a good sample post from april 2007 after his first start:

    MattNC April 26th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
    A 20 year-old pitcher working on a change up for the first time, and who is also rediscovering his slider after having shelved it for years due to concerns about the stress on his tender young arm doesn’t belong on the hill in Yankee Stadium. Hughes is not ML ready. As has been said, he doesn’t have ML arm strength either, but that could develop as the season progresses. The problem comes when a pitcher is having to master more difficult hitters, increasing pitch counts per game, and a new season high in total innings pitched at the same time.

    All pitchers who become MLB regulars have to make that transition eventually. But ideally, the transition happens more gradually than is occurring with Hughes. Going from A/AA in 2006 to 16 only innings of AAA in 2007 before being asked to make that triple adjustment in the major leagues is asking for trouble.

    I agree with Pete that Phil’s head is in the right place, and that he won’t have a damaged psyche from some bad outings here. It’s the risk of injury from overthrowing and perhaps working a few more batters than he should in a particular game (and not wanting to admit that he’s tired or maybe even a little sore, due to the magnitude of the opportunity) that worries me.

    http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....g-reasons/

  12. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    YT-

    CC
    Nova
    Pineda
    Hughes
    Banuelos
    Betances (6th guy)

    D-Rob
    Chamberlain
    etc.

    I like mine better.

    :)

  13. JCPD February 28th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Thank heaven for baseball again
    ————————————————————–

    http://gallery.me.com/dakota1369#100146

  14. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    JCPD-

    greetings amigo.

    Que pasa ?

    :)

  15. randy l. February 28th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    mtu-

    just curious.
    when did you first start commenting on the blog?

  16. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Randy-

    Question?

    The slider puts the most stress on the elbow. What puts the most stress on the shoulder- a certain pitch, angle of delivery, violence of delivery, or something else?

  17. JCPD February 28th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Hey MTU, doing well other than I haven’t seen the sun in what feels like 2 months, but at least still no snow here in Buffalo.

  18. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Randy-

    Around the time of the Matt Holliday thing.

    Somewhere around there.

    ;)

  19. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    “Would Cano be better at 3rd? He throws righty?”

    I think he could play third probably….but then you need a 2B which are equally hard to find and as long as Cano is playing awesome at 2B Id leave my best player alone……Alex still plays 3B quite well.

  20. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    JCPD-

    Vitamin D deficiency ?

    Glad to hear you are well.

    :)

  21. JCPD February 28th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Funny you should say that MTU, the doctor actually has me on vitamin D.

  22. randy l. February 28th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    mtu-

    i lose track of that one.

    so 2009 about?

  23. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Hughes dominated the minor leagues and the Yankees needed pitching badly at the time he was called up and inserted into the rotation……they were doing things differently back then and who knows…..if he came along now then maybe they’d sign a Freddy Garcia to buy him more time too.

  24. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    JCPD-

    I was just kidding but D is manufactured thru the action of Sun on the body.

    An absence of Sun can mean a reduction of Vitamin D production.

    Tghat is not a good thing.

    Your Dr. is on the ball, so to speak.

    If anything, we tend to have the opposite problem out this way.

    ;)

  25. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    JCPD-

    Good to see you again. Wasn’t it the winter of 1976-1977 when cars parked on the street were snowed/plowed in until spring in Buffalo? I was living in Philly at the time and had a particularly rough winter.

  26. randy l. February 28th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    “The slider puts the most stress on the elbow. What puts the most stress on the shoulder- a certain pitch, angle of delivery, violence of delivery, or something else?”

    yankee trader-

    i don’t know the answer to that.

    i know personally trying to do too much too soon when i wasn’t in shape. overuse for the conditioning level.

    what are you thinking about shoulder injuries?

  27. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Randy-

    I guess. Whatever year it was that Holliday was a FA.

    Around that time, plus or minus a little.

    I’m old. My memory is like a sieve so don’t hold me to it.

    :)

  28. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    I have a much bigger problem with how Joba was handled than how Hughes was…..Joba not only wasn’t developed correctly….he really wasn’t developed at all.

  29. MaineYankee February 28th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:25 am
    Randy-

    Around the time of the Matt Holliday thing.

    Somewhere around there.

    —————————————————

    I remember you well from that time.

    Until I found out differently it seemed like you had inside info on that one.

    Then I realized it was just you being normal. :D:

  30. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    MTU came along in 2009 right after I did and the blog went substantially downhill from there :)

  31. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    “I have a much bigger problem with how Joba was handled than how Hughes was…..Joba not only wasn’t developed correctly….he really wasn’t developed at all.”

    Was it a mistake to bring him in 2007?

    Also, how should they have handled him in 2008?

  32. jacksquat February 28th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:30 am
    JCPD-

    I was just kidding but D is manufactured thru the action of Sun on the body.

    An absence of Sun can mean a reduction of Vitamin D production.

    Tghat is not a good thing.

    Your Dr. is on the ball, so to speak.

    If anything, we tend to have the opposite problem out this way.

    Many people cannot make vitamin D sufficiently simply from sun exposure.

  33. JCPD February 28th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    YT, I do believe that was the winter. This is the first winter I’ve lived in Buffalo, but I’ve had my share of long winters having lived in Syracuse, Denver and Fargo, ND.

  34. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    Maine-

    Yeah. Full of BS and my usual oblique thinking.

    That Holliday thing really broke my heart. I though for sure he was coming here. SOB.

    Took a while to get over that one.

    :(

  35. LGY February 28th, 2012 at 9:38 am

    If the 5th starter competition went to a vote I’d bet Cashman woulda cast his ballot for Hughes and Girardi for Garcia.

  36. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    “Was it a mistake to bring him in 2007?

    Also, how should they have handled him in 2008?”

    No….it wasn’t a mistake to use him in 2007…the mistake IMO was not sending him back to AAA in 2008 to learn how to start as a professional and get him ready for the big leagues.

  37. LGY February 28th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    *would*

    Somehow Donnybrook took over my keyboard for a second.

  38. JCPD February 28th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    MTU, all I know is the lack of sun sucks and there are days I wonder what the hell I was thinking moving back east from Colorado.

  39. Bronx Jeers February 28th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    mtu-

    just curious.
    when did you first start commenting on the blog?

    —————————————————————

    Like Jack Nicholson in The Shining, MTU has always been here in one dimension or another. :wink:

  40. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Blake-

    Yeah. Like the Hindenburgh.

    I have lot’s of friends in low places.

    We were kind of Brothers in arms on the Holliday thing.

    I think we both wanted him.

    :)

  41. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    Randy-
    My thinking on shoulder injuries?

    I don’t know-is it pain from extra stress on the tendons in the shoulder, laxity in the shoulder joint, or pain from tears in the labral cartilage? Are younger athletes more prone to shoulder injuries? Many seem to think so.

  42. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    JCPD-

    I believe you belong out West.

    I can see how your soul would soar like an Eagle out here.

    There is still time for you to correct your mistake.

    :)

  43. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    Somehow the Yanks thought 70 innings between Nebraska and the big leagues was enough to prepare Joba for the Yankee rotation……..

  44. pat February 28th, 2012 at 9:42 am

    Reading through some of the Varitek retirement stuff this morning.

    He had a 15 year MLB career, was Captain of the Sox and it seems the thing he will most be remembered for is sticking his mitt in Alex’s face.

  45. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    “No….it wasn’t a mistake to use him in 2007…the mistake IMO was not sending him back to AAA in 2008 to learn how to start as a professional and get him ready for the big leagues.”

    So even though, he had an innings limit in 2008, you would’ve started him in AAA then brought him up until the innings limit was met?

  46. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    “I think we both wanted him.”

    Yup….

  47. MaineYankee February 28th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    LGY February 28th, 2012 at 9:38 am
    If the 5th starter competition went to a vote I’d bet Cashman woulda cast his ballot for Hughes and Girardi for Garcia.

    ——————————————————————–

    What would make you think that?

  48. MaineYankee February 28th, 2012 at 9:46 am

    pat February 28th, 2012 at 9:42 am
    Reading through some of the Varitek retirement stuff this morning.

    He had a 15 year MLB career, was Captain of the Sox and it seems the thing he will most be remembered for is sticking his mitt in Alex’s face.

    ————————————————————–

    They fail to mention he wasn’t man enough to take his mask off.

    Not to mention how he grabbed him somewhere he shouldn’t have.

  49. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    “So even though, he had an innings limit in 2008, you would’ve started him in AAA then brought him up until the innings limit was met?”

    Ideally he should have spent all of 2008 starting at SWB…..instead that stuck him in the Yankee rotation after 70 minor league innings …..used the “Joba rules “…..the results were predictabley mixed as expected for an inexperienced rookie….

  50. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Jeers-

    I still love your Bobcat on the golf course story.

    Funnier than sh*t.

    The great white hunter in action.

    :)

  51. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    MTU-

    Holliday’s father certainly wanted him to be a Yankee.

  52. blake February 28th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    The stuff they did with Joba and Hughes is exactly what they are trying to avoid now it seems…..Banuelos would have been in the rotation last year if they were still running things the way they used to…..

  53. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    YT-

    Yeah. That’s what he said at the time.

    Security and the Greenback won out.

    I can’t say I blame him looking back at it.

    Would have been great to have another stud hitter from Oklahoma on the team again.

    :)

  54. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    “Ideally he should have spent all of 2008 starting at SWB…..instead that stuck him in the Yankee rotation after 70 minor league innings …..used the “Joba rules “…..the results were predictabley mixed as expected for an inexperienced rookie….”

    Which leads me to think they made the initial mistake in 2007, with both him and Hughes. If they left them both in the minors in 2007, they could’ve brought up Hughes in 2008, after breaking spring training then Joba later in the 2008 season along with Kennedy.

    All of this is with 20/20 hindsight, but they would’ve missed the playoffs in 2007, but possibly have made it in 2008 with more developed starters in Hughes, Kennedy and Joba.

  55. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    “The stuff they did with Joba and Hughes is exactly what they are trying to avoid now it seems…..Banuelos would have been in the rotation last year if they were still running things the way they used to…..”

    I hope they’ve learned their lesson.

  56. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:54 am

    blake-

    The Brass need to be Muzzled so the kids can develop at right pace.

    The Win now at all costs needs an adjustment.

    ;)

  57. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    What they shoulda done:

    1. Had Hughes and Kennedy not lie about injuries, which torpedoed 2008 before it began.
    2. Started Joba from the beginning instead of starting him in the pen.

  58. Yankee Trader February 28th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Have to go. Have a good day everyone.

  59. LGY February 28th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    What would make you think that?

    ——–

    It’s just the sense I get from their public comments. I feel like Cashman has something to prove with Hughes while Girardi has a high level of confidence in Garcia.

  60. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Buona fortuna YT.

    Have a great day.

    :)

  61. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Which leads me to think they made the initial mistake in 2007, with both him and Hughes. If they left them both in the minors in 2007, they could’ve brought up Hughes in 2008, after breaking spring training then Joba later in the 2008 season along with Kennedy.

    Kennedy, & Hughes were both good starters in 2007. I have no problem bringing them up in 2007. The issue is that Hughes got hurt, and then hurt himself further in rehab with the fluke ankle sprain. We don’t know how Hughes season would have played out if he didn’t pull his hammy, but he may have been sent back down once things settled down in the rotation to come up later that year.

    He was always going to come up in 2007. He was capable of handling major league hitters. Kennedy as well. What happened is that Hughes put a stress fracture in his ribs in 2008 st and Kennedy was hiding a different injury, and both were throwing pitches 80% as well as they did in 2007.

    The biggest mistake with Joba was putting him in the pen with a manager and fanbase that didn’t know about him. Their first exposure was not, Joba the awesome starter, but Joba the electric reliever. This put too much media pressure on them to keep Joba in the majors.

  62. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    I didn’t like bringing up Hughes that early in the season. I thought he was rushed in 2007. Also, with Joba and Kennedy being drafted in 2006 and not playing professionally really until 2007, I thought they were rushed in too that same season.

  63. MaineYankee February 28th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    LGY February 28th, 2012 at 9:56 am
    What would make you think that?

    ——–

    It’s just the sense I get from their public comments. I feel like Cashman has something to prove with Hughes while Girardi has a high level of confidence in Garcia.

    ———————————————————————————–

    I don’t get the idea that Cashman has anything to prove. As long as he’s been at this I can’t believe he’s that insecure.

    I also get the sense that Girardi is willing to give Hughs as much of a chance as he can to be a SP. Everything he says seems to make me think he believes in him.

  64. RMS February 28th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I was just kidding but D is manufactured thru the action of Sun on the body.

    An absence of Sun can mean a reduction of Vitamin D production.
    ————————————————————————————————-

    Take Vitamin D3. I live in NY and I take it in the winter.

  65. LGY February 28th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    All of this is with 20/20 hindsight, but they would’ve missed the playoffs in 2007, but possibly have made it in 2008 with more developed starters in Hughes, Kennedy and Joba.

    ———-

    The Yankees were 0.5 games behind Detroit the day Joba made his debut. They finished the season 6 games ahead.

    Joba was great but he wasn’t responsible for a 6.5 game swing.

  66. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Injuries have partially derailed some of our young guys.

    Question becomes could they have been prevented, or were they bound to happen anyway ?

    Joba came with warning labels from college.

    Hughes had a series of freak injuries.

    Kennedy had a frickin’ aneurysm. That is an act of God.

    Sure were some strange goings on.

  67. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Kennedy was a college pitcher who between the minors and majors pitched 160 innings. He was ready for the big leagues. He had 4 pitches and command of all of them. He didn’t need innings, he got enough to stretch his arm. Keeping him in the minors would have been just spinning his wheels.

    Look at what Kennedy did to the minors, he was too good for those leagues.

  68. Tackelberry February 28th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    So does Chad or nayone know the real story with Ravel Santanna? Is he gonna be ready to start the season or not?

  69. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Kennedy would have assuredly been in the rotation in 09 if not for the aneurysm. If you assume any time a player is injured or bad that they are rushed, then you’re never going to develop anyone. You can only know if a player is ready by trying them in the majors, and you can’t even really know if they are ready for sure. Guys will come up and struggle, even if they have all the minor league time in the world, or dominate even if they only have a little bit. Or even just be average!

    Hughes and Kennedy both got major league hitters out in 2007 with some regularity. Kennedy got a september callup, so its not like he was rushed. He dominated every level on his way up.

  70. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Is he gonna be ready to start the season or not?

    Last I read no, because they are going to put him in the NYPL instead of Low A where he belongs.

  71. MaineYankee February 28th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    It seemed like there was a certain amount of stubborness on Jobas part that played a role in his development.

  72. disco stu February 28th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    The ironic thing about Joba in 2007 is that when you look past all the fanfare that came with him bursting onto the scene the Yankees would have been a playoff team had they just kept him in the minors the entire year.

    By the time he was called up in early August the Yankees had turned around their season after that awful first half. I believe the day of this first game in the bigs in Toronto they were already leading the Wild Card race … and their main competition were the Tigers and Mariners.

    The Yankees basically spoon fed Joba relief appearances all of August and by the time he was moved up in the pecking order for the pen by around Labor Day, the Yankees were essentially on cruise control the rest of the way … Torre wanted to rest his regulars in September and get them ready for the playoffs, so there was no push to catch Boston for the AL East and the Tigers and Mariners fell apart down the stretch.

    Hindsight is 20/20, but if the Yankees could have just held off on Joba until 2008, who knows how much different things would have turned out.

  73. jacksquat February 28th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    The Yankees should have respect for Garcia if he is not going to start and wants to be traded. He is a veteran, not some young guy that can be happy just to be there.

  74. Duh Innings February 28th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    What they shoulda done:

    1. Had Hughes and Kennedy not lie about injuries, which torpedoed 2008 before it began.
    2. Started Joba from the beginning instead of starting him in the pen.

    —————————-

    Actually, moron, Wang the Yankees’ ace tearing his ACL on 6/15 that year in Houston running the bases and injuries to Matsui and Posada which knocked them out long-term torpedoed the 2008 season, but you can keep blaming two kids (Hughes and Kennedy) and ridiculously accusing them of “lying” to the Yanks if it makes you feel better. Yeah let’s not call up Joba in August 2007. Did you see what he did in his callup? I blame the midges thing on old, tired, worn out Torre who should’ve stopped the game and demanded the midges be cleared away for his pitcher. I believe it’s even in the rulebook that you can stop a game for any act of natue however unusual. What was MLB gonna do, award Cleveland a forfeit for delay of game in the postseason? Typical Monday morning quarterback/classic second-guess with Joba.

  75. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    @npbtracker

    Looks like the Rangers are letting Darvish continue to throw lefthanded. He can hit about 86 mph lefty.

  76. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    I thought Wang broke his foot in Houston?

  77. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Actually, moron

    Actually, crazy person, I meant torpedoing the seasons for Hughes & Kennedy in 2008, not the Yankees.

  78. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    and ridiculously accusing them of “lying” to the Yanks if it makes you feel better.

    Both admitted to pitching through injury/pain because they didn’t want to mess up. Its not accusatory, they said so. Hughes was pitching with a stress fracture and Kennedy had some issue with his lat.

  79. stuckey February 28th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    “No….it wasn’t a mistake to use him in 2007…the mistake IMO was not sending him back to AAA in 2008 to learn how to start as a professional and get him ready for the big leagues”

    Chamerlain posted a 2.76 ERA in 12 starts in 2008.

    He posted a 4.78 ER in 31 starts in 2009, which is clearly a different level of performance than 2008, but was in fact a tale of 2 months.

    This was his ERA per month in 2009:

    3.13
    4.84
    3.79
    2.73
    8.22
    6.85

    Chamberlain was a very, VERY effective starter for his first 33 ML starts, until August of 2009.

    I don’t pretend to know what happened in August and September of 2009 in his next 11 ML starts, but I fail to see any merit to the argument his lack of minor league experience finally caught up to him after 33 games – that he was HIGHLY effective for 33 starts and then ML batters caught up to him because or lack of experience.

    Given what we knew then and know now of his 2010 and medical history, one does have to give serious considering to arm issues.

    There is NO evidence to suggest, and ample evidence to suggest otherwise that the wheels falling off Chamberlain as a ML starter in the last 3rd of 2009 had little to do with lack of ML experience.

  80. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:30 am

    “Look at what Kennedy did to the minors, he was too good for those leagues.”

    So was Joba, but I still stand by my opinion that bringing up Hughes, Joba and Kennedy at different times during the 2008 season would’ve been much better for them and in the long-term the organization. Of course, the Yankees were extremely unlikely in 2007 and 2008 with injuries to those guys along with Wang.

  81. ron February 28th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    They should of not brought hughes,joba,and kennedy up til they had the right amount of innings built up,a guess,150 or so,at either AA or AAA,or a combination,and they had at least 3 well enough developed pitches,and results.

    It is not easy to work on things when results matter most.

    Flaherty on wfan said that martin will have to choose his spots and call for pineda to throw his changeup around 15 times a game,and it will be martin,first,and foremost that will get pineda’s changeup where it needs to be,if it can be done.

  82. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    They should of not brought hughes,joba,and kennedy up til they had the right amount of innings built up,a guess,150 or so,at either AA or AAA,or a combination,and they had at least 3 well enough developed pitches,and results.

    Kennedy passes this test. He came up when he had 146 ml innings.

  83. 86w183 February 28th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Why would God want Ian Kennedy to have an aneurysm?

    Developing pitchers is much more an art than a science. There are plenty of examples of guys who handled a heavy workload from day one.

  84. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Anyway you cut it, the Yankee organization has hopefully learned some valuable lessons from the Hughes, Joba, Kennedy and Wang issues.

  85. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Hughes had 140 innings already in the minors in 1 season and was dominant.

  86. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    “Developing pitchers is much more an art than a science. There are plenty of examples of guys who handled a heavy workload from day one.”

    A lot of luck too.

  87. blake February 28th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    “Chamerlain posted a 2.76 ERA in 12 starts in 2008.”

    That really doesn’t matter….how.many 22 year olds can make the jump from college to the big leagues with soblittle minor league time and sustain success.

  88. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Joba had 120 innings in 2006. And 118 in 2005.

  89. Duh Innings February 28th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Actually, moron

    Actually, crazy person, I meant torpedoing the seasons for Hughes & Kennedy in 2008, not the Yankees.
    ——————————–

    I am far from a “crazy person”. You, however, are a punk who’d never talk the way you type to me (or anyone else you talk down to) if we met in a bar and talked Yankees/baseball.

    You knew Hughes and Kennedy would both fall to season-ending injury. They did, too. They killed the 2008 Yankees not the 2008 Yankees ace Wang making only 15 starts and Matsui-Posada combining for a season’s worth of at-bats from one player!!!

    You do know Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson combined for a season of starts and were 5+ ERA horrible, right? And Pettitte wasn’t that much better at 4.54 ERA. Obvously not.

    BTW Joba posted a 2.60 ERA as a starter and a reliever in 2008, so there goes your “He shouldn’t have been a reliever” nonsense, Dickface. Besides that he wasn’t even in the rotation by 2009 postseason time despite being a starter most of the year and he did very well in the pen in the postseason that year.

  90. blake February 28th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    I don’t have a problem with them using Joba in the pen in 2007…..they were trying to win the WS…..its what they did after that that was the problem IMO.

  91. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    The Dodgers didn’t give Kershaw a bunch of innings and he came out okay. They didn’t put him in the bullpen either. However, other pitchers in other organizations have been back and forth without the issues the Yankees young starters had which is why I think luck and a commitment to sticking with a development program is essential in developing ML starting pitching.

  92. DONNYBROOK February 28th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Man, can’t wait for the ST games to start. This endless noise concerning Hughes, Joba, Montero, etc that you guys persistently throw out there, is revisionist history and BORING. Get in step, or get outt line.
    – 2012 YANKEE COMEBACK PLAYER -

    (1) A-ROD- A return to dominance at the plate. 42 HR’s\ 138 RBI’s\ 111 RUNS

    (2) PHIL HUGHES – 18 game winner

    (3) JOBA CHAMBERLAIN – Returns to form late. Excells in Oct.

    (4) RAPHAEL SORIANO -32 Holds, 1.32 ERA

  93. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    “I don’t have a problem with them using Joba in the pen in 2007…..they were trying to win the WS…..its what they did after that that was the problem IMO.”

    I disagree, I think the initial mistake was 2007.

  94. LGY February 28th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Pretty funny this guy calls Face a moron and claims Wang tore his ACL in the same sentence.

  95. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    You knew Hughes and Kennedy would both fall to season-ending injury. They did, too. They killed the 2008 Yankees not the 2008 Yankees ace Wang making only 15 starts and Matsui-Posada combining for a season’s worth of at-bats from one player!!!

    You do know Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson combined for a season of starts and were 5+ ERA horrible, right? And Pettitte wasn’t that much better at 4.54 ERA. Obvously not.

    You’re arguing something which I am not even arguing. Hughes and Kennedy had bad 2008s because of their injuries, and hiding it leading it to ineffectiveness in their initial turns in the rotation. The Yankees missed the playoffs in 2008 because their offense was the worst in 16 years. You continue to be incoherent.

  96. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    which is why I think luck and a commitment to sticking with a development program is essential in developing ML starting pitching.

    Luck is a huge factor :) And if you mean ‘keeping guys as starters’ then yes I agree. Joba never shoulda went back in the pen post 2009. Hughes never shoulda went in the pen in 2009 either.

  97. MTU February 28th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    86-

    It’s a figure of speech. Not mean’t to be taken literally.

    ;)

  98. blake February 28th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    “The Dodgers didn’t give Kershaw a bunch of innings and he came out okay.”

    Kershaw is special…..but still it took him awhile and the Dodgers just kept throwing him out there instead of moving him to the bullpen. The Yankees expecting Joba to be good immediately and that’s just not how it works.

  99. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    “Luck is a huge factor And if you mean ‘keeping guys as starters’ then yes I agree. Joba never shoulda went back in the pen post 2009. Hughes never shoulda went in the pen in 2009 either.”

    That’s what I mean which is why I have hope for the organization now as apparently, they’ve learned their lesson about switching young starters back and forth from being a starting pitcher to bullpen and then back to a starting pitcher.

  100. stuckey February 28th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    “That really doesn’t matter….how.many 22 year olds can make the jump from college to the big leagues with soblittle minor league time and sustain success.”

    That’s a VERY broad argument blake, give me specifics?

    He was HIGHLY effective for 33 ML starts (to the tune of a low 3.00′s ERA) over June 2008 to July 2009. The wheels came off dramatically starting in August 2009 over 10 starts.

    Even then he has a career 4.18 career ERA as a starter.

    Hypothesize specifically what about lack of MiL time suddenly flipped a switch for him in the last quarter of his career starts?

  101. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    @Joelsherman1

    Column nyp.st/ziuYOg #Yankees pretend battle for No. 5 starter job (psst, it’s rigged for Hughes to win).

    Sorry LGY

  102. Crawdaddy February 28th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    “Kershaw is special…..but still it took him awhile and the Dodgers just kept throwing him out there instead of moving him to the bullpen. The Yankees expecting Joba to be good immediately and that’s just not how it works.”

    So was Hughes and Joba special until they screwed them up. Now, both pitchers have some responsibility too, but the organization didn’t do them any favors.

  103. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Stuckey,

    I agree with you. They never should have stopped developing Joba as a starter in 2010. He was following a pretty similar trajectory to many other players learning the ropes in baseball. They either were worried about injury (jokes on them), believed their own ‘stuff plays up mantra’ (dumb), or simply thought he’d be better in the pen (duh). I think it was short sighted to stop after 2009. Even though he didn’t have mL experience, he had around 300 innings total including college which I think is fine. He had 100 ml innings and was working on building his experience in the majors, which is ok for a guy that had 4 pitches.

  104. stuckey February 28th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    “I don’t have a problem with them using Joba in the pen in 2007…..they were trying to win the WS…..its what they did after that that was the problem IMO.”

    Identify the problem?

    He’s not a great starter today, so that means by default the Yankees caused this to happen?

    That’s causation fail. It is concluding there can be no other reasons for the end result other than some unidentified failure by the Yankees.

    But’s let’s leave it an open question – WHAT was the failure?

    His actual performance doesn’t suggest someone unprepared to get out ML hitter has a starter. He did that VERY well for 33 ML starts until something dramatic happened over his next 10.

    How does MiL time factor into HIS specific track record?

  105. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    But’s let’s leave it an open question – WHAT was the failure?

    I think the only thing they could have done better is not put him in the pen in 2008, either put him in the minors and monitor him there, or start him straight out in 2008. And of course keep starting him in 2010.

  106. stuckey February 28th, 2012 at 10:53 am

    JF,

    We all saw with out own eyes a different Chamberlain in 2010. He’s had varying degrees of FB effectiveness over his uneven career, but even in the pen in 2010 it was obvious he was at the low ebb of his fastball effectiveness.

    Is it your belief the Yankees caused this, or identified it, in late 2009/early 2010?

  107. djsunyc February 28th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    i thought joba was never the same as a starter after the injury in texas…

  108. stuckey February 28th, 2012 at 10:56 am

    “I think the only thing they could have done better is not put him in the pen in 2008, either put him in the minors and monitor him there, or start him straight out in 2008.”

    Okay, but again, this was his March-July of 2009

    3.13
    4.84
    3.79
    2.73

    I have a hard time extrapolating any ill-effects from 2008 in those numbers, this essentially arguing a delayed reaction, or that the first 2/3′s of 2009 was based in good luck.

    What about 2008 made August-September 2009 go so wrong?

  109. LGY February 28th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    @Joelsherman1

    Column nyp.st/ziuYOg #Yankees pretend battle for No. 5 starter job (psst, it’s rigged for Hughes to win).

    Sorry LGY

    ———-

    :mad:

    Luckily I have my Nick Swisher-Vernon Wells bet to fall back on.

    F it. I’m staying confident in Chief! :evil:

  110. stuckey February 28th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    “i thought joba was never the same as a starter after the injury in texas…

    Remind us when that was again?

  111. djsunyc February 28th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    stuckey February 28th, 2012 at 10:57 am
    “i thought joba was never the same as a starter after the injury in texas…

    Remind us when that was again?

    ————

    august 2008

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/re.....38;prov=ap

    “Already missing No. 1 starter Chien-Ming Wang and right-hander Phil Hughes from a top-heavy rotation, the Yankees received more bad news when Chamberlain exited with a stiff right shoulder in the fifth.”

  112. Bronx Jeers February 28th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Column nyp.st/ziuYOg #Yankees pretend battle for No. 5 starter job (psst, it’s rigged for Hughes to win).

    —————————

    (psst, it’s rigged for Hughes to win). (again, like it was 2 springs ago)

    Corrected!

  113. blake February 28th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    “He was HIGHLY effective for 33 ML starts (to the tune of a low 3.00?s ERA) over June 2008 to July 2009. The wheels came off dramatically starting in August 2009 over 10 starts”

    My point is that those highs and lows should have been expected if you were going to throw him out there with such little minor league time. Of you’re going to develop a starter in the big leagues then you gad better be ready for some struggles and you need to stick with them…..they didn’t do that withajoba Joba……they moved him to the pen at the first sign of trouble.

  114. Doc Iac February 28th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    the yankees may be part to blame for hughes and joba, but it doesnt help that they showed up lookin like parade floats the past few seasons.

  115. Duh Innings February 28th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    You knew Hughes and Kennedy would both fall to season-ending injury. They did, too. They killed the 2008 Yankees not the 2008 Yankees ace Wang making only 15 starts and Matsui-Posada combining for a season’s worth of at-bats from one player!!!

    You do know Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson combined for a season of starts and were 5+ ERA horrible, right? And Pettitte wasn’t that much better at 4.54 ERA. Obvously not.

    You’re arguing something which I am not even arguing. Hughes and Kennedy had bad 2008s because of their injuries, and hiding it leading it to ineffectiveness in their initial turns in the rotation. The Yankees missed the playoffs in 2008 because their offense was the worst in 16 years. You continue to be incoherent.

    ——————————————————————-

    You continue to be an insultory prick.

    You’re one to talk about “incoherent” when you had to tell me you meant Hughes and Kennedy torpedoed THEIR 2008s, not the Yankees’ 2008, dumbass.

  116. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Its a shame such a good username is wasted on such a dumb person :(

  117. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Had you used your brain, you’d understand the context was in the individual players performances, not the team, and even after I corrected you, you continued to rant incoherently about the entire yankee team in 08. :(

  118. Duh Innings February 28th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Its a shame such a good username is wasted on such a dumb person :(

    ———————————————————–

    That the best you can come up with?

    It’s a shame you are an insultory Dickface as proven in your above comment.

    Seriously, get a life and ignore me, if I’m such “a dumb person”.

    But before you do that, make sure you write exactly what you mean like you didn’t when you made the wild, stupid accusation that Hughes and Kennedy torpedoed the 2008 Yanks then clarified your incoherent ass by saying they torpedoed their own 2008s which was even funnier considering they didn’t torpedo their own 2008s either. It’s the Yankees organization’s job to determine if pitchers are fit/able to pitch. The Yankees organization screwed up in 2008, not Hughes or Kennedy.

  119. Jerkface February 28th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    I will continue to rebut every stupid thing you post, sorry. Unless you think the Yankees should x-ray all of their players in spring to find hidden weaknesses, then the latter is impossible. At some point management has to trust the players are telling the truth. Hughes wanted to pitch through it, but he stunk so bad he had to own up. Same with Kennedy. They both went on the DL. I’m sorry you could not understand the context of the discussion, specifically being about their seasons. That is on you.

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