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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Hal: “189 is a real number, and we’re going to be shooting for it”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 01, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ever since the new CBA was announced, there has been plenty written and said about the Yankees desire to get below the $189-million luxury tax threshold in two years. This morning, Hal Steinbrenner confirmed all of those stories, saying he believes the Yankees can and should drop payroll the next two years.

“The 189 in two years is definitely a goal of ours,” Steinbrenner said. “We’re not too far off. We’re going to have a very similar payroll this year to last year, but I think we have a better team. Somewhat of an accomplishment I guess, on paper anyway. We’ll see. But yes, that 189 is a real number, and we’re going to be shooting for it.”

But why? The Yankees have paid the luxury tax in the past, why is now the time to lower payroll and try to fit beneath that ceiling?

“I’m a finance geek,” Steinbrenner said. “I guess I always have been. That’s my background. Budgets matter, and balance sheets matter. I just feel that if you do well on the player development side, and you have a good farm system, you don’t need a $220-million payroll. You don’t. You can field every bit as good a team with young talent. When you consider Banuelos and Betances and some of the pitching we have coming up with Nova and Hughes and Pineda, next year, when one of those two or both of those guys are up, we’re going to have the kind of young pitching, I don’t know when the last time was.

“… Luxury tax is an option. It’s a personal option. We do it. We go into it knowing exactly what we’re doing. Being the only team that does it, I’m just not convinced we need to be as high as we’ve been in the past to field a championship caliber team.”

Steinbrenner acknowledged that he stretched the budget to make room for Hiroki Kuroda this season, but he said a one-year deal is what made that possible. Hal has bent a time or two, but he’s still clearly more restrained than his father. So is $189 a requirement for 2014, or is it simply a goal?

“I’m looking at it as a goal,” Steinbrenner said. “But my goals are normally considered a requirement. Is it a requirement with baseball that we be at $189 (million)? No, it’s not a requirement. But that is going to be the luxury tax threshold and that’s where I want to be.”

 
 

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254 Responses to “Hal: “189 is a real number, and we’re going to be shooting for it””

  1. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Hal proving that the future of the team is in good hands…..and that he is smarter than his old man (although less aggressive). What will be really interesting is how he reacts if this strategy does not work. I happen to think it will, however. If you think about it, it is a strategy which harkens back to the 1950′s and the successes of the Yankees and Dodger teams of that era. What comes around goes around.

  2. blake March 1st, 2012 at 11:55 am

    “I’m a finance geek,” Steinbrenner said. “I guess I always have been.”

    Yay!

  3. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 11:56 am

    “There were no other legit reasons I can think of. They constructed this as a way to make money,”

    ID, we agree.

    And making money is WHY they exist.

    This is like saying “well, Apple built the iPhone as a way to make money”.

    Ummmm…. duh.

  4. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 11:57 am

    repost-

    The way I see it, devaluing the wild card is going to have a counterproductive effect in super-competitive divisions like the AL East.

    The same level of investment in talent is not going to produce the return it did under the old system. Under the old system, it made sense to go all out even in a strong division, because you could finish second, make the post-season and have essentially the same chance to win it all as every other team.

    Now, your chances to win, as opposed to the same as every other post season team, are 50% of the division winners.

    I understand the theory is that this will make teams compete harder to win the division, but I disagree. Under the new system, increasing your payroll and adding talent in a super-competitive division like the AL East will be very risky, because it’s now all-or-nothing.

    I think that will have the perverse effect of reducing the incentive to add talent and increase payroll.

  5. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Hal, then protect the farm and make wise choices with it.

  6. blake March 1st, 2012 at 11:58 am

    I think Hal is smart enough to realize that winning is actually what feeds the Yankee machine…..if they can field a championship caliber club and get under 189 then they will…..but if they can’t then they know what generates the 600+ million in revenue they have……

  7. Villa Nova-Ya March 1st, 2012 at 11:58 am

    As long as the money they save on the luxury tax goes back into the system in scouting, coaching and development, it can be done.

  8. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 11:58 am

    The one thing that does make sense abouy “189″ is all teams will be under the same gun, and perhaps we’ll start to see more realistic contracts being given, and shorter terms. This very well may help teams retain their star players, when crazy contracts are not being thrown at them.

  9. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 11:59 am

    BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 11:51 am
    MTU -

    No drugs. My son kept poking fun, and his wife finally took it serious.

    My son is a lefty, so maybe we we the makings of a couple of LHP or power strokes in YS. My oldest grandson is mostly lefty, but has become quite the switch hitter, and now pitches both LH and RH.
    _____
    Sounds like a WS team in the making. ;)

  10. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 11:59 am

    You can be a finance geek all you want Hal. No problemo.

    Just make sure you love collecting WS Trophies even more.

    ;)

  11. willwill March 1st, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Sounds like he believes in hughes, since he named him.. even over joba. Good.Hughes can put up or shutup this year….. either he sucks officially as a starter, or he’s a ACE reliever, and will be payed whatever way he decides to go, i am not convinced that he cannot be a 20 game winner one day, if he can just put guys away, can you imagine how good he’d be? Maybe i’m delusional but i bet he was one of the top pitchers to get to 1-2 to only lose the batter

  12. ADam March 1st, 2012 at 11:59 am

    I really want to know how they plan on getting to that number, seems like they will only be able to keeps tops 2/4 out of Granderson, Martin, Swisher, Cano. If they plan to add an arm, that will be interesting as well. I’m also wondering if the Little Steins will approve a budget slightly above 189

  13. luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Hal,

    I love your overall view on how to run things…..But trading Montero is a monumental screw up for that plan.

  14. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    “As long as the money they save on the luxury tax goes back into the system in scouting, coaching and development, it can be done.”

    Will it though?

  15. Mike Ri March 1st, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Yeah sure Hal

  16. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    blake March 1st, 2012 at 11:55 am
    “I’m a finance geek,” Steinbrenner said. “I guess I always have been.”

    Yay!
    ///

    I see the mandate has changed! Rah! Rah! Go budget!

  17. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Hal doing that Old Man Potter routine just aint gonna cut it. Having a relatively new stadium with those luxury suites and expensive seats to fill will put the Kibosh on this austerity rubbish. Young talent is all fine and good, but it’s the star players that the casual fan with real $$$ will pay to see. Hal is gonna get an education here shortly. And, it is just plain dumb to inform the opposition as to what your goals are, or what restraints you are operating under.

  18. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    blake-

    I agree. But it does seem that lately, the truly elite FA are extended by their current teams, and only the mediocre and aging ones hit the market. If they can’t field a championship caliber team by player development, they need to continue the current model of being very judicious as to which FA’s to go after.

  19. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    The Yanks are banking on Pineda, Banuelos, and Nova being in the rotation by 2014 and most of the bullpen being home grown….if that doesn’t happen then its gonna be very tough

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    You’ve got the fanboy wannabes pretending they’re GMs, passionately absorbed in budgetary discussions. These guys actually DO root for the budget: they’re vicariously fantasizing they’re running ML teams.

  21. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    JAP-

    Just for the short term.

    Once they get under the threshold and the Lux tax will be reset.Then it’s damn the torpedoes. Full steam ahead.

    ;)

  22. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    “I agree. But it does seem that lately, the truly elite FA are extended by their current teams, and only the mediocre and aging ones hit the market. If they can’t field a championship caliber team by player development, they need to continue the current model of being very judicious as to which FA’s to go after.”

    Fair point…..as I said the other day….free agency is becoming a place for pitchers and old dudes.

  23. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Is it possible that the division winner, WC, and WC2 could all come from one division?

  24. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Blake, you forget Betances. ;)

  25. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    *forgot

  26. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    “Young talent is all fine and good, but it’s the star players that the casual fan with real $$$ will pay to see”

    Um, no. Fans pay to see teams that win.

  27. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Can we please sign Soler, Hal?

  28. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    The farm system just became even more important.

    I’d like to see a rule change in the new agreement. Allow a team, as they do in the NFL, to designate a franchise player, and pay that player enough to keep him, and if that salary increase puts you over 189, there is no tax on that amount.

  29. luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    ———————-

    they have the arms to make it possible, that´s why i think Pineda is a luxury they didn´t need, and Montero was a perfect fit to reach the goal of going under 189 mil and still be competitive.

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    JAP-

    Just for the short term.

    Once they get under the threshold and the Lux tax will be reset.Then it’s damn the torpedoes. Full steam ahead.
    ///

    Oh screw Hal and his budget.

  31. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    “Blake, you forget Betances.”

    Yea him too….point is that they can’t spend much on pitching and get to 189……the pitching staff will have to offset the high priced lineup.

  32. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    “And, it is just plain dumb to inform the opposition as to what your goals are, or what restraints you are operating under.”

    Anyone who knows how to use Google can see since 2005 the Yankees have been consistently working to cut their luxury tax bill.

    He’s just stating the quite already obvious.

  33. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    “Can we please sign Soler, Hal?”

    No….he’s a finance geek.

  34. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Nope, when we sign star players to long term contract past their prime years is when I am less interested in spending $$ on games. I want young, cost-controlled homegrown studs in my lineup.

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    Blake, you forget Betances.
    ///

    Just sit back and watch him turn out to be the best of the group.

  36. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    JAP-

    I was just trying to make you feel better.

    Guess I failed.

    :(

  37. luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Fair point…..as I said the other day….free agency is becoming a place for pitchers and old dudes.

    ————————————–

    Spot on

  38. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    “They have the arms to make it possible, that´s why i think Pineda is a luxury they didn´t need, and Montero was a perfect fit to reach the goal of going under 189 mil and still be competitive.”

    I agree….

  39. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    blake, yep, that is the plan, but also needs to be true on the “O” side. We should be in solid shape there in about 3 years.

  40. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    “Can we please sign Soler, Hal?”

    No….he’s a finance geek.
    ///

    See how he’s playing to the gallery of fanboy “GMs”?

  41. luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    Nope, when we sign star players to long term contract past their prime years is when I am less interested in spending $$ on games. I want young, cost-controlled homegrown studs in my lineup.

    ————————————-

    AMEN!!!

  42. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Yep, FA as a goal to build the core of a team has become more and more obsolete. But better late than never.

  43. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:07 pm
    JAP-

    I was just trying to make you feel better.

    Guess I failed.
    ///

    MTU, rooting for your family being restored to health. That’s something to root for.

    & thanks for tryin’ pal.

  44. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    blake -

    I can still see the Yankees in on Solar. This is the last year to sign these players at a cost of $$ only, I’d do it for the OF future, and have a cost controlled player.

  45. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    You guys notice The Walking Slid Ruler failed to mention a position player when citing the young Yankee talent that is gonna fuel this austerity program???? NOT gonna happen. Sure, Hal is gonna try. But the Yanks just do Not have the young players to make this happen in 2 yrs. Pure Folly, IF you wanna win a Championship.

  46. yanks 27 March 1st, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Then don’t trade the next Manny when the team already has good pitching depth, Hal. Don’t trade away Vizcaino for 1 year of headcase Vazquez or a potential closer in Melancon for the ghost of Lance Berkman who the Astros would give away for free, etc.

    And I give it about 2 years before Hal realizes this plan won’t work and they go back to spending.

  47. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    YF,

    I will feel a lot better about the longterm if the Sanchez’s and Masons etc have good season and start knocking on AAs door

  48. luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    JAP,

    Hi!!, This Santana kid, where is he from?, do you think he is better than Soler at this point??

  49. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    JAP –

    Fear not, in 5 years the Yankees will trade the farm for some young stud FA named Montero, lol.

  50. Erin March 1st, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    JonLaneNYC Jon Lane
    RT @Pirates: A.J. Burnett has been diagnosed with an orbital fracture of his right eye…He will undergo surgery tomorrow in Pittsburgh.

    :(

  51. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    JAP-

    My pleasure.

    “Blessed are the peacemakers ……”

    Thanks for the well wishes on the other front.

    Much appreciated.

    :)

  52. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    eboland11 Erik Boland
    And let the “Hal Steinbrenner is cheap” talk commence in 3,2,1… #toopredictable

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Too late. The idiocy started about a month ago.

  53. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    yanks 27 March 1st, 2012 at 12:11 pm
    Then don’t trade the next Manny when the team already has good pitching depth, Hal. Don’t trade away Vizcaino for 1 year of headcase Vazquez or a potential closer in Melancon for the ghost of Lance Berkman who the Astros would give away for free, etc.

    And I give it about 2 years before Hal realizes this plan won’t work and they go back to spending.
    ///

    TOO LATE! TOO LATE! TRAGICALLY, TOO LATE!

    But at least we have Bichette to look forward to from that dumb Vazquez trade. Sounds like he’ll be worth the wait, too.

  54. luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Yanks27,

    It will work if they stay patient.

  55. CountryClub March 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    As long as they keep winning 90+ games a yr I couldn’t care less that the payroll is going to be 185 mil instead of 205 mil.

    Plus I like the fact that they won’t be financing other teams (or lining small market owner’s pockets).

  56. Mike in Harrisburg March 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    I think that’s really good to hear from Hal. It’s a lot more fun to win with developed guys than hired hands.

  57. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    I agree with the Montero Trade flying in the face of Hal’s Decree.

  58. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    stuckey – Your apple analogy is good. If they change the iPhone in a way that makes it cheaper for them to produce, but sell it to their customers as “improved whatever”… that doesn’t mean the decision was made to actually “improve whatever”, or that it’s actually even an improvement to begin with.

    I wasn’t not trying to debate the reasons they made the decision, they are pretty obvious and we all know them. I’m merely shooting down their “company line” that this is an improvement to the playoff system, which I think is BS. The only thing it “improved” is how much money they will make at the end of the season. Re-Seeding the playoffs or making a balanced schedule would be a change that would “improve” the game, but not necessarily line their pockets… so they never make that move.

  59. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    blake, Mason should fly through the system. Sanchez not as fast because of the D. People are saying he will be in Tampa by half way point, but we’ll see. It might be good to have him paired up with JR again at some point in 2012 though, like we did with Romine-Montero to have JR and Sanchez work together and to keep both fresh/shifting between catching/DH and in JR’s case playing multiple positions.

  60. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    I can still see the Yankees in on Solar. This is the last year to sign these players at a cost of $$ only, I’d do it for the OF future, and have a cost controlled player.”

    I think it soley depends on the type of contract…..if Soler demands a big league deal then I don’t see how the Yanks can add that additional 5-7 million to the payroll if they are serious about 189.

  61. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    was not*

  62. RadioKev March 1st, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    I like these comments, they’re measured and logical. Of course, no Yankee fan wants to hear about a large drop in payroll, but it’s good to see that it isn’t “a requirement.”

    It’s good to see the team will be smarter about what contracts they make. Make sure we pay the right guys, like CC.

  63. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    luis -

    Patient does not = Yankees, nor Yankees fan base.

  64. RadioKev March 1st, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    I think it soley depends on the type of contract…..if Soler demands a big league deal then I don’t see how the Yanks can add that additional 5-7 million to the payroll if they are serious about 189.
    ——–

    I think that a big league contract is a deal breaker in any case.

  65. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Poor AJ…..that sucks.

  66. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    blake -

    I believe the only way the Yankees would sign Solar is with a big bonus, and a MiLB deal, not a ML deal. He’s too young and raw to be given a ML deal, IMO.

  67. austinmac March 1st, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    I don’t see how anyone can be joyful for Hal’s statements. While stupid spending isn’t needed, if we are honest, the Yankees success over the last 15 years has been significantly helped by the team’s ability to spend to fill in gaps. They also could take some risks and afford them if they were wrong. With the money already on the books, they will no longer do that.

    The margin of error will be reduced, if not eliminated. They will now compete on a much more level playing field. I preferred the ability to add a good player when needed.

    I see nothing good from this.

  68. luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Big Al,

    I know……just wishful thinking

  69. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    luis March 1st, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    JAP,

    Hi!!, This Santana kid, where is he from?, do you think he is better than Soler at this point??
    ///

    Not sure, but get the feeling he’s Dominican. I’ll look it up. Haven’t seen him, but he’s been characterized as our first legit 5-tool prospect. I’ll find out for myself if he rehabs in SI, and that sounds nearly certain.

  70. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    “I believe the only way the Yankees would sign Solar is with a big bonus, and a MiLB deal, not a ML deal. He’s too young and raw to be given a ML deal, IMO.”

    I agree….and if he will accept that then maybe they’ll pursue it.

  71. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    blake -

    They need to fit AJ with a hockey mask when he’s AB.

  72. pat March 1st, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Poor AJ

    A.J. Burnett has been diagnosed with an orbital fracture of his right eye…He will undergo surgery tomorrow in Pittsburgh.

  73. ac1 March 1st, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    AJ having surgery. WOW
    Apparently being on the Yankees was the only thing between him and the knife.
    All those years of injuries in Toronto and Florida and then a healthy (but unproductive) three years in ny and now injured in ST in Pitt…..

  74. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Poor AJ. :(

  75. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Is AJ out for the season? Any updates on his recovery time? I like AJ, and was hoping a fresh start would be good for him.

  76. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    1998 Yankees:

    1B: Tino: Trade
    2B: Knoblauch Trade
    SS: Jeter Farm
    3B: Brosius Trade
    OF: Curtis Trade/Ledee Farm
    OF: Bernie Farm
    OF: O’Neill Trade
    C: Girardi Trade/ Posada Farm
    DH: Davis FA
    P: Cone Trade
    P: Pettitte Farm
    P: Duque Farm
    P: Wells FA
    P: Irabu Farm
    P: Rivera Farm

    This idea that the great Yankee teams spent big money on Free Agents is a myth. The 2002-2005 teams did it more with less success. Developing the farm is the better strategy, with of course a few choice supplements added in.

  77. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Mike in Harrisburg March 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    I think that’s really good to hear from Hal. It’s a lot more fun to win with developed guys than hired hands.
    ///

    Hollow stuff. They just traded the most celebrated player in the system. Nothing “fun” about that.

  78. ac1 March 1st, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Then don’t trade the next Manny when the team already has good pitching depth, Hal. Don’t trade away Vizcaino for 1 year of headcase Vazquez or a potential closer in Melancon for the ghost of Lance Berkman who the Astros would give away for free, etc.

    ____

    This was all before the new CBA….

    i dont see anything wrong with getting under 189 as long as they are still winning

    Those old outrageous contracts will make it more difficult.

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    luis, yes Dominican.

  80. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    No time table yet for AJ’s return.

  81. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    “I agree with the Montero Trade flying in the face of Hal’s Decree.”

    Not really, they acquired a guy with six years of team control.

  82. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Man I feel terrible for Burnett. He went from being on the Yankees to being paid by the Yankees to play for a different team to having a broken face in like a month.

    If only he knew how to throw a change-up…

  83. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Pineda is going to be super2 isn’t he? So he should have 5 years of control left.

  84. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Does Hal understand that his sunk costs may impose transitionary costs that could necessitate raising the payroll if he wants to do the WS every year thing?

  85. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Every team in baseball wants to acquire, young cost-controlled studs. All teams are on a level playing field in doing so.

    Only a few teams can buy the top-end talent needed to compete and win. The Yanks are fortunate enough to be one of them.

    So which approach is more likely to achieve consistent success? I don’t think you need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.

  86. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    AJ has a good changeup, just doesn’t like to use it.

  87. jacksquat March 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    I agree with the Montero Trade flying in the face of Hal’s Decree.

    Not really, they got a cheap player with high upside for a cheap player with high upside. You can disagree with the hitting/pitching strategy, but moneywise it’s a wash.

    I just hope Hal realises the reason they have the revenue they have is largely due to the team winning. If he thinks he is going to get the same revenue with a drop in performance, he is in for a rude awakening.

  88. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    “Does Hal understand that his sunk costs may impose transitionary costs that could necessitate raising the payroll if he wants to do the WS every year thing?”

    Based on his recent comments, I think he understands that issue.

  89. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Rich in NJ – I would take these comments more as a general plan for the future. Obviously they are going to have to adjust and do strange things to make it work in the next 3 years because they have contracts that they would not sign going forward on the books. What he’s really saying here is that there is no reason that they cannot be perpetually competitive at $189mil instead of $220mil once they accept it and act on it as a systemic philosophy.

  90. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    prufrock – I was actually excited about it (talking about burnett’s changeup here) when he was working on it last year… but like you said he just never throws it. It’s hard to have confidence in that pitch since it’s basically a BP fastball, if you don’t have early success with it I think it can derail you.

    Hopefully this doesn’t happen to Pineda.

  91. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “I just hope Hal realises the reason they have the revenue they have is largely due to the team winning. If he thinks he is going to get the same revenue with a drop in performance, he is in for a rude awakening.”

    If he doesn’t then he’s not only an idiot, but blind to what’s going on across town. New York fans are basically front running fans except for a few exceptions like hockey and Giant football.

  92. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    - STRAW -
    The goal is to hit the $189 in 2 yrs. The cost control 6yrs down-the-road has nothing to do with this Immediate goal.

  93. Erin March 1st, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Al-I haven’t seen anything (yet) that suggests he’ll be out for the season, just that there’s no timetable for his return.

    Poor guy.

  94. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Irabu was a trade from San Diego and both he and Hernandez were not Farm players. They were IFA signings.

  95. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Is it possible that the division winner, WC, and WC2 could all come from one division? It is, right?

  96. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Mac-

    Why so pessimistic ?

    The advantage is not going away permanently IMO. It’s just a temporary hiatus to get us under the
    luxury tax threshold.

    Once that is reset I believe the Yankees can spend more freely again if they choose to do so.

    In the meantime we are plenty competitive and the next wave of youngsters should help.

    :)

  97. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    ID

    I understand the reason that they would want to lower their payroll; I have supported it for years, as long as it’s done right.

    But they are at risk of having significant dead money on the payroll.

    If that happens, their goal of lowering the payroll may be incompatible with winning.

    We won’t know what path they will opt for until or unless that happens.

    They can’t start showing they have an appreciation for the new financial climate by signing Cano, now.

  98. Jacques Strappe March 1st, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    With Tex, A-Rod & CC on the books, and Cano being Granderson being players you don’t want to let get away, you gotta wonder what they’d offer Jeter if he can still play for a couple more years when his current contract is up.

    If the pool for the 2014 starting rotation is CC, Hughes, Pineda, Nova, Banuelos & Betances (assuming all are here & healthy & performing) then only CC would be paid at a premium. If he shows that the 2010 version was the real Phil Hughes (or that he could be even better) then he could soon get to be around halfway between CC and the rest of the pitchers. Still, that rotation pool would be very talented and most of them would not be too expensive yet.

  99. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    “Your apple analogy is good. If they change the iPhone in a way that makes it cheaper for them to produce, but sell it to their customers as “improved whatever”… that doesn’t mean the decision was made to actually “improve whatever”, or that it’s actually even an improvement to begin with.”

    But “cheaper to produce” is a VERY colored analogy, and one that I don’t think fits.

    Maybe we can say they have added a feature that MORE potential owners can/want to use use, thereby increasing its marketability, but in exchange they had a take a feature away that was very popular with its current users.

    The math of the equation is does this exchange of features, which is not a slam dunk but a calculated trade off, improve or subtract from its bottom line.

    As both an iPhone over and Apple stock holder, my view of this equation might be different.

    As I stated very early in this thread, my main interest is that as a stock holder. I cannot criticize Apple for producing a phone more people want to buy. This criticism is oxymoronic to me.

    As I user I can miss that feature.

    Again, I don’t begrudge you also missing that feature, I just think it’s silly to criticize for staying true to their intended purpose.

    “I’m merely shooting down their “company line” that this is an improvement to the playoff system, which I think is BS.”

    What is this company line you speak of? Can you copy and paste it so I can read it for myself?

    Without having read what you’re specifically refer to, my guess is MLB as a commerical enterprise can make a solid case anything that increases fan interest in the game can be billed as an “improvement” in the macro sense, even if it doesn’t resonate with individual fans on a personal level.

    But again, I’d have to see this “company line” for myself to respond in context.

    “but not necessarily line their pockets… ”

    Again, use of this sort of derogatory language to describe what they exist to do utterly confuses me.

  100. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 11:36 am
    BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 11:33 am

    JAP -

    Still a bit pissed by the Montero trade?

    —————————

    lol he’s not going to get over that but he’s not the only one. Many fams really wanted to see the kid be a fixture in the line-up for the next decade or so.
    ///

    Best,

    Let’s just say the next time I see Mr. Cashman in the elevator at NYS, or down in Trenton, I’ll have a few choice words for him. I see him once in a while, and I just nod. He’s very pleasant, as I will be; but I’ll have a little something to say.

    ——————————

    And you have every right to my friend but knowing Cash he’ll go into how hard it was to give him up.

  101. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    SQUATTER
    So where are the cheap, young, position players gonna come from to staff the Yankee team for the next 2YRS??? Trading Montero transposed a weak area into one on life support. Also, if I am Russell Martin, I gotta figure I’m gonna be playing for another team in 2013 after hearing Hal’s Decree.

  102. LGY March 1st, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Did Hal consult with a PR person before making these comments? Not exactly endearing himself to the fans…

  103. jacksquat March 1st, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:22 pm
    1998 Yankees:

    1B: Tino: Trade
    2B: Knoblauch Trade
    SS: Jeter Farm
    3B: Brosius Trade
    OF: Curtis Trade/Ledee Farm
    OF: Bernie Farm
    OF: O’Neill Trade
    C: Girardi Trade/ Posada Farm
    DH: Davis FA
    P: Cone Trade
    P: Pettitte Farm
    P: Duque Farm
    P: Wells FA
    P: Irabu Farm
    P: Rivera Farm

    This idea that the great Yankee teams spent big money on Free Agents is a myth. The 2002-2005 teams did it more with less success. Developing the farm is the better strategy, with of course a few choice supplements added in.

    —-

    Yanks got a bit lucky with several very good to hof quality players coming out of the farm within a few years of each other. Tell me the next time they have Jeter/Posada/Bernie/Pettitte/Rivera cheap, plus O’Neill and Tino relatively cheap.

  104. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    “Did Hal consult with a PR person before making these comments? Not exactly endearing himself to the fans…”

    They know they have us by the youknowwhats.

  105. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Hal consults with nobody. “THE WALKING SLIDE RULER HAS SPOKEN”.

  106. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    “Did Hal consult with a PR person before making these comments? Not exactly endearing himself to the fans…”

    I wouldn’t say that, as I’ve been wanting this type of thinking for a while.

  107. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    “Did Hal consult with a PR person before making these comments? Not exactly endearing himself to the fans”

    Fans don’t like finance geeks?

  108. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    “They know they have us by the youknowwhats.”

    Only if they keep on winning then some of us will disappear again.

  109. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Hal just handed Munson his walking papers.

  110. austinmac March 1st, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    If the payroll is now $220M, and Jerkface says the fringe benefits are $10M, that makes the payroll for luxury tax purposes of about $230M. That means in the next two years they have to cut $40M from the payroll.

    Newsflash– Owner to Cut Payroll by $40M. I don’t see how that is a good thing from a fan’s perspective. They can’t invest it in international players or the draft either. So, the thought is they will reinvest it somehow in the team? That’s a heck of a lot of $40K/year scouts.

    Reality–Owners to make much more in income. Well, now I feel better.

  111. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    I don’t understand the level of pessimism that temporarily curtailing the budget entails.

    It’s not like the Yankees suck.

    And it’s not like the restarint has to be, or is even likely to be permanent.

    They are very competitive as they sit.

    They have a great Pitching staff and a competitive offense.

    I guess I don’t get it.

    Why is there a serious problem with a short-term adjustment ?

    In the long run the Yankees might even come out of it stronger.

  112. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    If they are now touting how their mL system will be more of a pipeline, there needs to be more accountability of the GM, manager, development people, if they don’t have more success with developing high end talents.

  113. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    And you have every right to my friend but knowing Cash he’ll go into how hard it was to give him up.
    ///

    Best…

    gag.

  114. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Mac,

    Here is the important thing longterm……right now the Yankees might be the only team that can year in year out operate with a 200+ million dollar payroll …..if they cut that back ti the 185-189 range then you’ll have a few teams that can compete in that range….Sox, Phillies, Angels etc…..so while sure they can still win in that range and it’ll still be a lot more than most teams…..it would reduce the advantage and error margin they’ve been playing with for years.

  115. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Rich-

    There has been and will continue to be more focus on the Farm for the short run.

    We have plenty of trade pieces to try and secure other items we may require in the next few years.

  116. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    As per Russell Munson; don’t you know, we are going to scrimp in other areas in order to keep him… :roll:

  117. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Newsflash– Owner to Cut Payroll by $40M. I don’t see how that is a good thing from a fan’s perspective”

    It’s only a good thing if they don’t overpay for the decline phase of veterans and are successful in developing their own players, because they have the money to keep them.

    But as I said, the potential for transitionary costs is significant, because they will likely be paying for the decline phase of several aging veterans.

  118. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 12:38 pm
    Hal just handed Munson his walking papers.
    ///

    Oh, no, they’re smitten. He’ll be the lone exception. They’ll not extend Cano instead, trade him for some arm, and then explain that Russell Munson is so in tune with pitchers, he had to be retained.

    Pitching wins.

  119. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Blake-

    Yes. But only temporarily. They will still be competitve in the meantime, right ?

  120. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    MTU

    Trade pieces for to acquire what?

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:44 pm
    As per Russell Munson; don’t you know, we are going to scrimp in other areas in order to keep him…
    ///

    Haha! Yes.

  122. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Somebody needs to get over his little snit.

  123. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    “If they are now touting how their mL system will be more of a pipeline, there needs to be more accountability of the GM, manager, development people, if they don’t have more success with developing high end talents.”

    This is the year I expect big things out of the system from top to bottom. If not then Cashman needs to make more changes within his organization. I’m not exactly sold on guys like Newman and Contreras that have been there a long time. Changing pitching coaches like they’ve done the last couple of years is one thing, but the next step might be necessary.

  124. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Rich-

    Perhaps for less expensive OF’er, as an example.

    Whatever their need might be over the next couple of years.

    The Pitching depth they have is gold to trade with.

  125. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    “I don’t see how anyone can be joyful for Hal’s statements.

    “They will now compete on a much more level playing field.”

    I’m a fan and I’m VERY interested in seeing how the Yankees can compete on a more level playing field.

    Just like I’m interested in how the NY Giants and NY Knicks compete in a cap league.

    And how a pretty evenly matched Giants fared against the Patriots a month ago.

    I can UNDERSTAND if not relate that some fans want to see mismatches. They just like to see the Giants beat up on the Buccaneers of the world for 16 games. But you really can’t understand how a fan might to see a good, even match?

  126. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Good pots, Craw, except that at some point, it’s on Cashman as well.

  127. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    I do enjoy how we’re pretending we learned something new this morning…

  128. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Stuckey – But “cheaper to produce” is a VERY colored analogy, and one that I don’t think fits.

    I think you get a little caught up in the semantics of the words people use to describe things. For one as focused on abstracts and creating hypothetical constructs for questions, don’t you naturally glaze over the derogatory or colorful words people use and focus on their posts true meaning? Had I simply said “make more money” I guess your focus on the “color” of the line I chose to use dissipates and we can skip this entire post and get right to the meat of it, but that’s boring :)

    I’ll find a quote for you later if I have time, but they are generally selling this expansion of the playoffs as an improvement, no?

    I want to say that they are “improving” the appearance of competition at the end of the regular season (and as a result, money made) at the expense of the level of competition in the postseason. They are emphasizing the points that will put fans in the seats, and not mentioning at all what it means when 1/3 of the league can make the postseason instead of 1/4. Can we go with that?

  129. blake March 1st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    “Yes. But only temporarily. They will still be competitve in the meantime, right ?”

    Yea most likely barring major injury etc….but I think the payroll situation will be more permanent …..they can cheat it every now and then but they still will need to keep it around the cap to avoid paying big penalties. The solution is that they’ll have to be smarter…..several teams can spend around 189 million if they want.

  130. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    MTU

    Yes, as long as it’s cost-controlled for cost-controlled, but I still think their offense is at risk over the next few years, and it won’t necessarily be easily solved without spending fairly big money.

  131. Cashmoney March 1st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    because they will likely be paying for the decline phase of several aging veterans.
    ———–
    they will be paying…

  132. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    A lot of typos today. Sorry.

  133. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Anybody who thinks Cano is going anywhere else is just not thinking clearly.

  134. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    “Good pots, Craw, except that at some point, it’s on Cashman as well.”

    No question, but his evaluation has to be a lot more broader in scope.

  135. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    And you have every right to my friend but knowing Cash he’ll go into how hard it was to give him up.
    ///

    Best…

    gag.

    ————————-

    lol it’s unfortunate because it’s true.

  136. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    “I don’t see how anyone can be joyful for Hal’s statements.

    Hal didn’t personally change the way baseball works, the new CBA did (yes, he voted on it i get that but he was one of many). I would rather have the Yankees fully on board with the new system, rather than dragging their feet and getting stuck in a bad situation (worse situation?) later.

    Hal’s statements are “hey, we realize there is this 189 number floating around out there now, and we just want to let you know that is a real focus for us”. If they have to justify moves made in the next 3 years because of it, at least we know that decision making process started now and was not a knee-jerk decision when it actually happens.

  137. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    A lot of typos today. Sorry.

    ———————-

    How dare you make mistakes #RABcommentpolice

  138. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Hal didn’t personally change the way baseball works, the new CBA did (

    —————————–

    They have been talking about lowering the payroll since 08/09

  139. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    “Anybody who thinks Cano is going anywhere else is just not thinking clearly.”

    It’s not that he’s going anywhere. It’s about attempting to pay him less (in relative terms) and have the contract end as early as possible so that they have more money to spend elsewhere. The best chance to do that is now.

  140. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    I don’t understand the animosity for Cashman here, especially given everything he did this winter (even excluding the Montero trade).

  141. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “Yes, as long as it’s cost-controlled for cost-controlled, but I still think their offense is at risk over the next few years, and it won’t necessarily be easily solved without spending fairly big money.”

    True, they have to be fortunate in that regard with players already under their control and then hope for some shrewd trades and free agent signings.

  142. LGY March 1st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    I’m a fan and I’m VERY interested in seeing how the Yankees can compete on a more level playing field.

    Just like I’m interested in how the NY Giants and NY Knicks compete in a cap league.

    —-

    The NBA may be a cap league but several teams far outspend their competition

  143. BIG AL March 1st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Y’all have a great day – Later.

  144. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 1st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Okay kids, here are the charts, one at a time (i.e., second chart will be in next post)

    Always check my numbers, and remember that you need to give me predictions for both charts, the second chart being used in case of a tie!

    :)

    2012 YANKEE PREDICTION CHART

  145. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    MTU, but with the cap we lose some additional advantages: no more signing over slot and if the IFA draft is implemented, our superior position there is lost. We have already been curtailing spending in the latter case. Thankfully, our system right now is stacked in the lower levels.

  146. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 1st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    2012 SUXIAN FUTILITY CHART

  147. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    best – They have been talking about lowering the payroll since 08/09

    They were getting taxed on it then too. The only reason they are trying to get under by 2014 is the tax gets significantly worse.

  148. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    and are successful in developing their own players,

    ————————————–

    Something they need to improve in.

  149. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Blake-

    I guess that where we disagree. I think the restraint is more temporary in nature.

    Rich-

    Yes. That’s what meant. And I don’t think it will be as difficult as you think because we could have a lot to offer IMO.

    ;)

  150. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    trisha – Time for you to learn google docs spreadsheets lol :)

  151. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 12:56 pm
    I don’t understand the animosity for Cashman here, especially given everything he did this winter (even excluding the Montero trade).
    ///

    Excluding the Montero trade??

    Bang up job, Cash!

  152. pat March 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    DanBarbarisi
    Hal Steinbrenner says this year’s Yankee payroll is right around $210 million

    ~$20M reduction. I would think they are looking for a chunk of that difference to come from the bullpen.

  153. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    ” don’t understand the animosity for Cashman here, especially given everything he did this winter (even excluding the Montero trade).”

    Hey, I’ve been accused many times on this board as being a Cashman fanboy, but the fruits of his labor need to be more apparent to the big club and system after six years of total control.
    This is year #7 and his strategy and vision needs to take hold and keep the organization moving in the right direction.

  154. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Why, did they come out weird?

  155. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    “It’s about attempting to pay him less (in relative terms) and have the contract end as early as possible so that they have more money to spend elsewhere.”

    Cano is 29. I don’t think a six or seven year contract guarantees he will decline at the end of it. He is probably the one guy who deserves that type of long term security.

  156. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 1st, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    On my computer they looked fine – actually spiffy!

  157. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    trisha – No they look fine, just seems odd unsorted… and you could combine the 2 lists easier :)

  158. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    YF-

    That is true. Changes are being forced upon us. We must adapt to that reality.

    Not our fault. That’s an MLB design.

    If you want to be angry be angry with them. They are resetting the rules.

    You’re right. It’s good planning that our Farm is so pregnant right now.

    I’m not overly concerned. I see a plan here, and I think it should work pretty well.

    We have a lot to offer in trade.

    :)

  159. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Hey if they look strange, later on I will try out Google spreadsheet. It was easy enough to use Google docs so I would think spreadsheet will be equally easy.

    :)

    Later y’all.

  160. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    J Alfred-

    You got to let him go, man…..a

  161. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    “MTU, but with the cap we lose some additional advantages: no more signing over slot and if the IFA draft is implemented, our superior position there is lost. We have already been curtailing spending in the latter case. Thankfully, our system right now is stacked in the lower levels.”

    I’m not so sure about that as the Yankees haven’t sign a big IFA since Sanchez in 2009. I think they’ve committed a while ago to signing IFA at value and using their extensive scouting staff to keep the flow of talent constant to the organization.

  162. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Cano isn’t going anywhere.

  163. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Cano is one guy who will age extremely well. Loose limbed and effortless.

  164. LGY March 1st, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Hal Steinbrenner says this year’s Yankee payroll is right around $210 million

    ~$20M reduction. I would think they are looking for a chunk of that difference to come from the bullpen.

    ——–

    That’s the payroll in strictly salary.

    The payroll for luxury tax purposes is at least 10M higher.

  165. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    I think this new CBA is going to hurt teams like Texas, Toronto and Washington more than the Yankees.

  166. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    i don’t see how the yankees are going to beat the rays when the yankees payroll is only at 189 million dollars.

    i mean , crap, those guys might even be over 50 million dollars next year.

    it’s kind of unfair to have a guy like brian cashman compete with a guy like andrew friedman with only 3 and half times the payroll.

    what is hal thinking ?

  167. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 1st, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    ID – but they are sorted! That’s the point. On my computer they look like all the charts from years past.

    Stupid Google docs. Last time I’ll listen to jerkface!

    ;)

    And no way in God’s green earth am I going to sully our chart by adding the “other one” to it!

  168. Cashmoney March 1st, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    I think the transitory process might cost us a year or two missing the playoffs Rich,again it might. but developing and amass young talents to use or to trade is the smart way to go imo. Having the right personnel and accountability on that front is another issue. I am pretty sure yanks can be competitive with a 189 payroll if the talent pipe keeps on flowing and develops on ML lvl.

  169. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Hal could have helped his budget out by not dumping all that money in Soriano’s lap.

  170. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Hey folks.

    Don’t feel bad.

    We could be the Sux.

    :)

  171. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    J Alfred-

    You got to let him go, man…..a
    ///

    Well, I don’t have much choice. But I’m not throwing a tupperware party any time soon for Brian Cashman, either.

  172. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    YF-

    Why lament what has already transpired ?

    What’s done is done.

    No ?

    ;)

  173. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    “I’ll find a quote for you later if I have time, but they are generally selling this expansion of the playoffs as an improvement, no?”

    I honestly don’t know, you’re criticizing them for them for it, I assumed you’d know for sure.

    And I’ve already explained how I can justify their use of the term “improvement” in a certain context. So I need to actually see what you’re criticizing to have a more informed response.

    “I want to say that they are “improving” the appearance of competition at the end of the regular season (and as a result, money made) at the expense of the level of competition in the postseason. ”

    Maybe, that’s certainly a trade-off, as I tried to address in my iPhone analogy.

    “They are emphasizing the points that will put fans in the seats, and not mentioning at all what it means when 1/3 of the league can make the postseason instead of 1/4. Can we go with that?”

    We certainly can IF that’s what they’re actually stating. Again, I assumed you were talking exception over a stated explanation and not an implied one.

    Again, I’m a market guy. I have no sympathy for anyone who complains about something but continues to feed it.

    If someone were to tell me “I dislike it so much I don’t care of the Yankees make the PS, I’m not watching”, I’d respect that position very much.

    The argument, “I hate it, but I’m still going to participate in goosing the increased ratings that the addition of new team will create” … not so much.

    If YOU continue to watch, and MORE fans who wouldn’t have otherwise join you, this creates the condition in which MLB can say “improved ratings tell us we made the right choice”.

    I work in an industry whose most loyal customers fans are its most bitter critics, and it is in that industry as it is in baseball an opposing position.

    I can’t fault an industry for not catering to the whims of fans who won’t change their buying habits.

    If baseball TRULY alienates fans with their changes, and as a result LESS fans follow the game, I’d criticize them for that. I just have to see that happen first.

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Cano isn’t going anywhere.
    ///

    He once was out the door for an aging Randy Johnson. There’s precedent for trying to trade our genius second baseman. I take nothing for granted when it comes to Cashman.

  175. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    JAP-

    He’s staying.

    ;)

  176. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    “Well, I don’t have much choice. But I’m not throwing a tupperware party any time soon for Brian Cashman, either.”

    J. Alfred Prufrock-

    plus even if you did, his wife would be getting the tupperware in the divorce settlement anyway .

    poor brian.

    no tupperware for him :)

  177. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    JAP-

    If they trade Cano I will join your mutiny.

    With gusto.

    :)

  178. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    “Hal could have helped his budget out by not dumping all that money in Soriano’s lap.”

    That didn’t help.

  179. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Hal could have helped his budget out by not dumping all that money in Soriano’s lap.

    ==========================================

    Soriano’s not likely to be part of the 2014 problem though.

  180. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    “The NBA may be a cap league but several teams far outspend their competition”

    LGY, as the Yankees will continue to do.

  181. TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    “I’m not throwing a tupperware party any time soon for Brian Cashman”

    If you think back to what it was like in the days of Gabe Paul, Cedric Tallis and Clyde King, you might throw him that party.

  182. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 1st, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    As the queen of dropping a post wherever I sign in and not reading all of the posts that preceded in the thread, I will add one more thing, since it has to do with a post that was right near where I posted.

    TAKE THIS TO THE BANK – ROBBY CANO WILL RETIRE IN PINSTRIPES.

    :)

    Now for real, later y’all.

  183. blake March 1st, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    MTU,

    the rules are going to.stay the same though and as I understand it they’ll need to get below 189 ever so often to reset their luxury tax percentage ……I.doubt they’ll go much higher if they can help it as the further you go above the harder it is to get back below again…..especially if longterm deals are involved

  184. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Randy l,

    Saw your post well later, but agree there’s a link between shrugging off Montero’s departure and not ever having appreciated Jorge Posada nor comprehended the OPS catcher historical advantage we’ve had all these years.

    In this case, not knowing your history doesn’t doom you to repeat it, it may prevent you from doing so.

  185. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:05 pm
    I think this new CBA is going to hurt teams like Texas, Toronto and Washington more than the Yankees.
    _____
    It will also hurt the small revenue teams who have relied on the draft to compete. Twenty teams went 16% or > over slot in 2011. In the new CBA those teams would have been hit with 100% tax & loss of two 1st-rounders.

  186. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    TheStraw March 1st, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    “I’m not throwing a tupperware party any time soon for Brian Cashman”

    If you think back to what it was like in the days of Gabe Paul, Cedric Tallis and Clyde King, you might throw him that party.
    ///

    Gabe Paul did a lot of the groundwork George got credit for. And I lived through those years. It’s worse when you have a precious jewel and you toss it. Much harder to take. Much harder.

  187. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    “It will also hurt the small revenue teams who have relied on the draft to compete. Twenty teams went 16% or > over slot in 2011. In the new CBA those teams would have been hit with 100% tax & loss of two 1st-rounders.”

    Very true!

  188. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    dogface March 1st, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    Hal could have helped his budget out by not dumping all that money in Soriano’s lap.

    ==========================================

    Soriano’s not likely to be part of the 2014 problem though.
    _____
    True, but the signing affected our ability to make moves this year. I, actually, unlike most like Soriano in the BP, thought he had a very strong second half, but not at the cost.

  189. stanzy March 1st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Seems to make good sense to me to try to get under the threshold for a few seasons. Doesn’t it reset the rate they’ll pay when they go over again? They are/will be paying a ridiculously high rate, if they don’t get under, temporarily. So even though people seem to think their actual available cash is much higher than the budget they set, there is a limit somewhere, and freeing up that extra money that would go to the luxury tax will allow them to spend even more, after they reset the rate. The team still has big name stars to attract casual fans, and will for the next few years, even if they’re not out buying up all the marquee players. Then, when they drop the tax rate, they can buy up the new round of big names, if necessary.

  190. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:10 pm
    JAP-

    If they trade Cano I will join your mutiny.

    With gusto.
    ///

    Unfortunately, mutiny’s not an option. Not in my DNA. This is a case of putting up with your crazy relatives. Or something.

  191. blake March 1st, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    Cano isn’t going anywhere…..how much and for how long they pay him though may be dependent on whether they approach him about an extension.

  192. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    It will also hurt the small revenue teams who have relied on the draft to compete. Twenty teams went 16% or > over slot in 2011. In the new CBA those teams would have been hit with 100% tax & loss of two 1st-rounders

    =====================================

    Could hurt baseball as a whole. Lot of 2 sport kids may pass on baseball because of these limitations.

  193. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Cano should age pretty well though.

  194. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Blake-

    I don’t know about that.

    Perhaps you know more than I on that.

    My focus is on the next few years or so.

    In the near term they get under that cap and then they can raise payroll somewhat at least for a while
    if they wish to.

    If they see something they feel they gotta have maybe they snap it up then.

    Don’t know. We’ll see. Right now everything is just theory w/o much to base it on.

    Things are in flux.

    I think these guys are looking ahead. That they have a plan. I believe that.

    If I see they don’t I’ll change my POV. They get the benefit of the doubt from me right now.

    ;)

  195. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    I thought I read a column by Sherman that getting under the threshold has to occur either after the 2013 or 2014 seasons? If it happens during one of those seasons, the luxury tax resets for the Yankees.

  196. blake March 1st, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    “Cano should age pretty well though.”

    Should….but id still rather pay him to age 37 than 39

  197. Cashmoney March 1st, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    fundamentally when i comes down to it… success in baseball still come down to two things to me… 1. getting the best ‘bang’ out of the bucks u spend on your roster 2. developing a strong farm system.

    that’s should be goal whether one’s payroll is 200 or 50.

  198. Rich in NJ March 1st, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    I think the transitory process might cost us a year or two missing the playoffs Rich,again it might. but developing and amass young talents to use or to trade is the smart way to go imo. Having the right personnel and accountability on that front is another issue. I am pretty sure yanks can be competitive with a 189 payroll if the talent pipe keeps on flowing and develops on ML lvl.
    _

    It is the smart way to go, as long as they do it right.

    Whether or not you want to assign blame for Hughes and Joba not developing as well as IPK, or that they only had one ML ready impact bat available to them from within, or merely attribute it to the vagaries and uncertainties of the process, if they are going to change their business model, they need to be better at it going forward, or they will have trouble competing at the level that Hal suggest that they will.

  199. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    JAP-

    Then let’s just say I’ll teach Cashman a new way to rappell.

    OK ?

    ;)

  200. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    but the fruits of his labor need to be more apparent to the big club and system after six years of total control.
    This is year #7 and his strategy and vision needs to take hold and keep the organization moving in the right direction.

    ———————-

    Very well said we’re going into year 7. We aren’t going to have mL high end talent throughout the roster but the moves he has made need to make an impact.

  201. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    “I.doubt they’ll go much higher if they can help it as the further you go above the harder it is to get back below again…..especially if longterm deals are involved”

    I haven’t looked at it closely enough, but as I understand the structure, you can always reset by getting under the threshold.

    Understand the Yankees have not been adverse to paying luxury tax. Kuroda’s deal meant they were added $14m to the payroll, $4m of it being pure luxury tax.

    I wonder if the eventual expiration of Arod/Tex/Sabathia’s deals will work out to give the Yankees another opportunity to reset 3, 4 years after they reset in 2014?

    It COULD be a pre-calculated long-term goal of staggered resets.

  202. Cashmoney March 1st, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    if they are going to change their business model, they need to be better at it going forward, or they will have trouble competing at the level that Hal suggest that they will.
    ———-
    agree.

  203. G. Love March 1st, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    As someone who pays top dollar to go to as many games as I can this decree doesn’t make me feel that great unless the team is planning on rolling back prices and making parking at the stadium affordable again.

    I also don’t get the Montero trade. A middle of the order hitter costs 23 million minimum a year in free agency. Having a homegrown one for chump change would make this budget more of a reality. This says to me that the Yankees didn’t believe in Montero & think he was more hype than cornerstone hitter.

    While I dislike the Yankees having to pay other teams who choose not to spend, the fact is the Yankees take care of their own and keep their star players. They are one of the few teams that do this. Other teams let their franchise guys walk w/o even making an effort, but the Yankees cost of doing business is so high because they have always taken care of the guys who earned it. Even Jeter taking his “pay cut” last year was paid many millions more than he would have earned on the open market. Jorge made 15 million last year because the Yankees stepped up and did what it took to keep him here. Same thing with CC this season.

    With Cano, Swisher, Granderson, Martin coming up on free agency soon the Yankees won’t be able to do what they’ve done in the past financially and stay below 189 million. Cano right now can get 20 million a season and will get more before they resign him. I expect Swisher and Granderson to go to other teams. I expect them to overpay for Martin now that they traded the one catcher who could have supplanted him. I don’t think Romine is a viable starting catcher by next season but maybe he’ll surprise us all this year.

    I don’t mind spending what I do on the Yankees because I always felt the owners had the fans backs and would take the budget to the Jupiter if it helped the team win. Now that I see them backing away from International free agents they would have normally scooped up in the past I’m worried. They’re betting the future of the franchise on the bats of Arod and Tex and Cano when/if they resign him.

    The young pitching better be good.

  204. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    The goal is getting under $189 by the 2014 season for tax breaks to kick in and reset the clock on future taxation. It comes to a savings of around $100 mil. That’s plenty of incentive to get under that mark. Once under that number, they can go on a spending spree again for a year or two for something that they need or want.

  205. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    The young pitching better be good.

    —————————

    It is good they just can’t screw it up like they did before.

  206. LGY March 1st, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    It doesn’t appear from Hal’s comments the motivation here is to “reset” the luxury tax so they can go over it at a lower cost in the future.

    Rather it seems he’s talking like someone who plans to get under 189M and staying there.

  207. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    You guys must not be looking at our Farm.

    Because it’s GOOD.Very good in fact.

    Why wont it produce ?

    It already has.

    It’s gonna continue.

    What needs to improve is our development.

    I’m hoping a few lessons have been learned there.

    We’re gonna find out.

    ;)

  208. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    if hal really wanted to make some cash, he’d figure out a way to make money off fas like me who live outside the Yes network area.

    i pay mlb for mlb.com and mlb tv just to watch yankee games

    all the teams split that money.

    why should other teams get the money for me watching the yankees

    i would rather pay the yankees directly for their games only .

    hal should fight for the right to get my money instead of diving it up with the rest of the league.

    the yankees get local cable money, but non local has to be a huge revenue stream if the yankees could tap into it.

  209. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    If it happens during one of those seasons, the luxury tax resets for the Yankees

    =======================================

    Luxury tax isn’t the only issue here though. The other issue is that a teams revenue sharing payment amount can be positively impacted by staying at or under whatever the the luxury tax threshold is. Yankees have never minded paying the lux, but I think they find the whole revenue sharing thing to be a bit odious. If they can sucessflly get their number down to $189M, I think they’re going to endeavor to say right around there going forward.

  210. blake March 1st, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    “It COULD be a pre-calculated long-term goal of staggered resets.”

    Possibly

  211. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    randy – How is Hal going to change 50 years of broadcasting blackout rules? I wish someone would, but putting that on Hal isn’t going to get us anywhere.

  212. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Gotta run soon.

    You all have a nice day.

    :)

  213. blake March 1st, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    “Rather it seems he’s talking like someone who plans to get under 189M and staying there.”

    Agreed…..he actually said they shouldn’t need a 200 million dollar payroll

  214. MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Cano isn’t going anywhere.
    ///

    He once was out the door for an aging Randy Johnson. There’s precedent for trying to trade our genius second baseman. I take nothing for granted when it comes to Cashman.

    ——————————————————————————————-

    Wasn’t that deal on George?

    Also cost them a chance to sign Beltran.

  215. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    I’m sure Beltran’s 2009 and 2010 would have gone very well around here. I still call that a bullet dodged

  216. Cashmoney March 1st, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Agreed…..he actually said they shouldn’t need a 200 million dollar payroll
    ———-
    I think he is gonna try and be under the threshold, but i also get the impression if they need additional help hal wont hesitate to add a short term solution like kuroda. either way, I don’t think this ‘mandate’ is big deal one way or another. Personally, staying under 189 and be able operate a consistent team seems perfectly reasonable if it contingent up developing a consistent talent pipe that supplies new life blood. on that front, we shall see.

  217. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:19 pm
    JAP-

    Then let’s just say I’ll teach Cashman a new way to rappell.

    OK ?
    ///

    No, train me, and I’ll teach him ;)

  218. Bronx Jeers March 1st, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    That could sell yes programming to other cable companies but I doubt there’s enough demand.

    Remember George went outside MLB to get a sponsorship from Addidas. That was unprecedented.

    Yanks need to launch their own satellite. :wink:

  219. theREALkevin March 1st, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Yup. George is definitely dead.

    I love how part of the focus now for the Yanks is to pinch pennies more. The Yankees. Trying to be cheaper. Not more efficient. Cheaper.

    What’s next- under 150 million? The Steinbrenners are worth what, over a billion dollars… and they can’t even be bothered to pay the luxury tax if they go over for the right players?

    I can’t imagine how Hal’s lifestyle would have to change if their payroll was over 200mm and they went over the luxury tax. I mean, damn, the guy would SERIOUSLY have to cut back. And those bank accounts. 20 or 30 million less out of hundreds of million? How could they possibly survive?

    You never want to just throw money around for the heck of it. But guys like CC & Tex, they were worth those contracts at the time. Smart, big money signings for guys in their prime. I really hope this doesn’t prevent signings like that in the future. Sigh. They really never had a shot at Yu Darvish.

  220. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Making veiled threats on Cashman’s well-being is really achieving that level of maturity you claim to expect from posters here, Prufrock.

  221. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Cano isn’t going anywhere.
    ///

    He once was out the door for an aging Randy Johnson. There’s precedent for trying to trade our genius second baseman. I take nothing for granted when it comes to Cashman.

    ——————————————————————————————-

    Wasn’t that deal on George?

    Also cost them a chance to sign Beltran.
    ///

    Sure, it was. But when George had Rivera all but traded for Fermin, and also wanted to trade Jeter, Gene Michael told him they’d be nuts to trade either guy, so George relented.

    The only reason Cano wasn’t ‘zona bound was because the D’backs said no.

  222. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    kevin – He didn’t say they wouldn’t sign good contracts like the CC/Teixeira contracts… you are only assuming that. What they can’t do is pay the bullpen $50mil/year anymore, or overspend on mediocre pitching.

  223. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:37 pm
    Making veiled threats on Cashman’s well-being is really achieving that level of maturity you claim to expect from posters here, Prufrock.
    ///

    phhtt…you’re ridiculous.

  224. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Though MLB hasn’t published the revenue sharing breakdown since 2003, The Yankees revenue sharing payment in 2009 is thought to be about $140 million. And I think that may have featured some sort of break for building a new stadium. It’s an enormous number. If keeping their payroll below the lux tax threshold is going to help reduce that number, it’s got to be a pretty big deal to the Yankees and Hal.

  225. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    “It doesn’t appear from Hal’s comments the motivation here is to “reset” the luxury tax so they can go over it at a lower cost in the future.

    “Rather it seems he’s talking like someone who plans to get under 189M and staying there.”

    Agreed, but there is philosophy and opportunity.

    I think 2014 is the immediate goal and they will stick to that until then.

    After than I’d like to see philosophy challenged by an opportunity, particularly if the philosophy can be met again in the foreseeable future.

    As I say, I don’t think Hank had a sudden change in heart AFTER he signed Kuroda. He has a overall approach and he assesses opportunities as they present themselves.

    He decided okay, we’ll pay the 40% rider on that deal.

  226. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    “Saw your post well later, but agree there’s a link between shrugging off Montero’s departure and not ever having appreciated Jorge Posada nor comprehended the OPS catcher historical advantage we’ve had all these years.”

    J. Alfred Prufrock-

    when the yankees have been good usually have good hitting catchers. it really is part of their dna.

    girardi seems to be throwing the idea of good hitting catcher out the window for better defensive ones . sanchez is a while away so the yankees’ catching is looking pretty mediocre for the next few years . average at best.

    posada bashing was pretty intense his last few years and a lot of those same people turned into montero bashers.
    i really feel the yankee management including girardi made the decision to not pay much for catching offense feeling defense was more important.

    i disagree with that position and think the yankee position is overly affected by girardi’s personal preferences.

    martin is at least good defensively, but cervelli is horrible when you factor in the 14% throwing out runners stat. i have no idea whta girardi is thinking with cervelli’s bad throwing.

  227. MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    . Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:38 pm
    MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    MTU March 1st, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Cano isn’t going anywhere.
    ///

    He once was out the door for an aging Randy Johnson. There’s precedent for trying to trade our genius second baseman. I take nothing for granted when it comes to Cashman.

    ——————————————————————————————-

    Wasn’t that deal on George?

    Also cost them a chance to sign Beltran.
    ///

    Sure, it was. But when George had Rivera all but traded for Fermin, and also wanted to trade Jeter, Gene Michael told him they’d be nuts to trade either guy, so George relented.

    The only reason Cano wasn’t ‘zona bound was because the D’backs said no.

    ——————————————————

    You tried to put that on Cashman.

  228. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    That could sell yes programming to other cable companies but I doubt there’s enough demand.

    YES is offered nationwide on most cable carriers to my knowledge, only the actual games get blacked out because of the MLB blackout rules which (supposedly) protect small market teams. Stuff like centerstage and all of their other programming comes through.

  229. Cashmoney March 1st, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    As I say, I don’t think Hank had a sudden change in heart AFTER he signed Kuroda. He has a overall approach and he assesses opportunities as they present themselves.

    agree

  230. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I still don’t believe in any kind of salary caps.. completely un-American.

    And with Boras as his agent, Cano is accepting nothing less than 10 years, $180 million. If he keeps playing as he has, that might be low-balling it.

  231. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Sure, it was. But when George had Rivera all but traded for Fermin, and also wanted to trade Jeter, Gene Michael told him they’d be nuts to trade either guy, so George relented.

    The only reason Cano wasn’t ‘zona bound was because the D’backs said no.

    ——————————————————

    You tried to put that on Cashman.
    ///

    I was under the impression I just explained why I DO think it is on Cashman. He’s the GM. My guess is, he didn’t really understand how good Cano’s bat would be, otherwise we’d have heard that Cashman was against dealing Cano to Arizona, that Cashman protested, etc. We’ve never heard anything of the kind, and further, the trade would have happened if not for Arizona rejecting it.

    Seems to me, he doesn’t understand how good the bat is that he just traded, either.

  232. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    “Yanks need to launch their own satellite.”

    why can’t they just stream their yes signal on the web?

    i know comcast themselves are going further and further of making their cable programming on the web.

    at some point , comcast will probably their cable programming on the web without the requirement to get cable from them.

  233. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    posada bashing was pretty intense his last few years and a lot of those same people turned into montero bashers

    This sounds made up, I would ask you to cite an example but I know you won’t respond to me anyway because you are oh-so-mature.

  234. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    the other teams played a good trick on the yankees by getting out of market internet rights to be divided equally among all teams.

    someone on the yankees was alsleep at the wheel when they gave that one away.

  235. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    “I still don’t believe in any kind of salary caps.. completely un-American.”

    Not if you believe in the America where a commercial enterprise is free to run its own business they way it sees fit.

  236. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    In the next 2 years, NYYs will lose the salaries of Rivera, Soriano, Kuroda, Garcia, Jones and Chavez in the next 2 years. Swisher could go too, but, I’m not so sure that Swisher is gone. Even with resigning Swisher and Cano and the slight pay increases for others, NYYs will get under that thresh hold.

  237. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    i know comcast themselves are going further and further of making their cable programming on the web.

    Probably because comcast is a cable provider, and YES is a TV station. Slight difference there, as Comcast can sell their own services to whoever they want, however they want.

    YES has to be paid for by the providers, and they provide it to their customers how they see fit. You can get Yankee games for free on mlb.tv if you are a cablevision subscriber for instance, you can also use HBO GO if you pay for HBO on cablevision.

    They Yankees can’t just start broadcasting themselves freely on the internet or they will get shut out of every major cable network.

  238. Pat M. March 1st, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Heard last night that there’ll be a NL East team who will be watching Nick Swisher this season……

  239. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    ” was under the impression I just explained why I DO think it is on Cashman. He’s the GM. My guess is, he didn’t really understand how good Cano’s bat would be, otherwise we’d have heard that Cashman was against dealing Cano to Arizona, that Cashman protested, etc. We’ve never heard anything of the kind, and further, the trade would have happened if not for Arizona rejecting it.”

    We don’t know if Cashman was for or against trading Cano to Arizona because those negotiations became very contentious as they couldn’t agree on the trade parameters. Randy Levine finalized that trade with Arizona.

  240. J. Alfred Prufrock March 1st, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    when the yankees have been good usually have good hitting catchers. it really is part of their dna.

    girardi seems to be throwing the idea of good hitting catcher out the window for better defensive ones . sanchez is a while away so the yankees’ catching is looking pretty mediocre for the next few years . average at best.

    posada bashing was pretty intense his last few years and a lot of those same people turned into montero bashers.
    i really feel the yankee management including girardi made the decision to not pay much for catching offense feeling defense was more important.

    i disagree with that position and think the yankee position is overly affected by girardi’s personal preferences.

    martin is at least good defensively, but cervelli is horrible when you factor in the 14% throwing out runners stat. i have no idea whta girardi is thinking with cervelli’s bad throwing.
    ///

    randy, people get excited when some of us accuse the Yankees of letting Girardi fashion the team in his own image, like it’s some weird psychological witch hunt, but the facts are in front of us.

    Montero is gone, and only a Cervelli injury put Montero onto the postseason roster. That’s just frightening to me. Posada has been bashed on other boards. I remember the dread of Posada catching against the Angels in the ALCS, because they were going to “run all over us.” This is when he was still hitting great, too. It’s one thing for fans to be calling for Jose Molina to replace HOF Posada, it’s another when the management is on the same page…I admit I wanted Girardi to manage this team. Boy, I regret that wish.

    I’m outta here. Good one, folks.

  241. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    What’s going on with our posts now?

  242. Pat M. March 1st, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    AJ heading for surgery for a broken facial bone near his eye….Tough breaks for AJ as of late

  243. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Girardi is the anti-Jesus.

  244. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    god damnit… i’m banning myself from using italics, this is the second time i’ve done it now :/

  245. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    “I still don’t believe in any kind of salary caps.. completely un-American.”

    Not if you believe in the America where a commercial enterprise is free to run its own business they way it sees fit.
    ——————————-

    Sure. And I can freely disagree. And the context we are speaking in is entirely different.

    Is capping the salaries/bonuses of CEOs of multi-billion dollar corporations un-American?

  246. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Son of a b*tch. I don’t even need to scroll up, I can bet my life this is ID’s fault…

  247. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Although I’m still convinced that I typed my post properly and wordpress or whatever garbage is running this website merely ate one of the italics tags.

  248. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    A healthy and rested Russell Martin and a more experienced Romine will offer plenty of offense at the catching spot over the next three or so years. They should be the least of NYYs issues.

  249. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Just in time!!

    New Thread :arrow:

  250. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    A healthy and rested Russell Martin and a more experienced Romine will offer plenty of offense at the catching spot over the next three or so years

    ————————-

    Not really looking forward to that.

  251. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    . If keeping their payroll below the lux tax threshold is going to help reduce that number, it’s got to be a pretty big deal to the Yankees and Hal.

    They get around 10 million back if they get under for 1 year, ~40 million if they stay under until 2016. They will also not pay luxury tax for 2014 and then reset to a smaller rate if they go over again. So lets assume they would have spent 210 million each year.

    2014
    No Tax: 10 million revenue sharing savings + 10.5 luxury tax savings
    2015
    No Tax: 15 million revenue sharing savings + 10.5 luxury tax savings
    Reset: No revenue sharing savings, 5 million luxury tax fee
    2016
    No Tax: 15 million revenue sharing savings + 10.5 luxury tax savings
    Reset: No revenue sharing savings, 7 million luxury tax fee

    So the difference between resetting and staying under is: 62 million

  252. MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Of course we know Girardi likes a defensive catcher because Montero was ready to take over and Joe kept him in the minors. Sound about right?

    Of course we won’t mention that he won’t be starting in Seattle either which is a surprise seeing they have a catching savant as a manager.

  253. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    A healthy and rested Russell Martin and a more experienced Romine will offer plenty of offense at the catching spot over the next three or so years

    ————————-

    Not really looking forward to that.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Really doesn’yt make any difference what you’re looking forward to. Martin isn’t exactly a dog and neither is Romine. They won’t hit 35-40 homers, but, they’ll hit. They have everywhere they’ve been.

  254. rm March 1st, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    In addition to the savings jerkface has pointed out there is a benefirt for just reseting the tax from 50% to 17.5/30/40 then 50. If all they do is reset the tax by getting under 189 million in 2014 they saveabout 50 million in payroll + tax and revenue sharing for that year. If they then make a big signing in 2015 to go back to the 210 million/yr range they save an additional 12+ milliion in luxury tax overt the 4 year period it is phasing back up to 50%. It is worth going after because of the young cost controlled pitching situation . But if things don’t work out and they need a big signing to field a “championship caliber” team they will pay the tax.

    You could look att his as an effort to save $60+ Million that they could use however they need to remain chamionship caliber in 2015 and beyon


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