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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Thursday notes: A day to improvise

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 01, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It’s always a slow day until the managing general partner stops outside of an elevator and talks about the budget for six minutes…

Today was supposed to be a day of quick workouts and (potentially) quick wit. The team bonding event was a trip to a local improv studio, where a group of professionals designed a series of skits and exercises for the Yankees.

“What they don’t realize is, they are the entertainment,” Joe Girardi said before getting on the bus.

“We don’t want them to be totally uncomfortable. I’m not looking for them to be uncomfortable. I’m looking for them to interact and have fun. It’s all intermingled here, guys who have been here a long time with guys who are in their first year of camp… I just think it’s important they feel they belong. If they do walk through that (clubhouse) door in April, May, June, July, they’re comfortable and they’ve had conversations with guys that maybe last year they didn’t. And I think that’s the benefit of it. Because the first time you’re called up, sometimes it’s hard enough with everything that’s going so fast. You at least don’t want them to be intimidated by the guys in the clubhouse.”

A few notes from today…

• Games start tomorrow with an exhibition against South Florida. “I think this year I’ve been as pleased as any year as a manager with our live BPs,” Girardi said. “The way that our pitchers have thrown the ball, and hopefully that moves right into the games in spring training and it moves right into the year. I’ve been really pleased with the arms that I’ve seen, the ability of the young kids, the veterans, the way they’ve been throwing the baseball. Everyday I walk away going, that was good. And it always hasn’t been like that.”

• Add Manny Delcarmen to the list of injured Yankees. He has a strained lat and is expected to miss “at least four or five days,” according to Girardi. Apparently he was one of the guys who had been pitching pretty well this spring.

• If you’re keeping track, the spring injuries look like this: Delcarmen (lat) Austin Romine (back), Kyle Higashioka (shoulder), Russell Branyan (back) and George Kontos (oblique). Should be able to scratch Kontos name off that list soon enough. He’s scheduled to play catch tomorrow and hopes to be back on a mound shortly.

• Robinson Cano returned to camp today but he won’t participate in games until Sunday. Girardi wants to give him a few extra days after he missed three days of workouts.

• The Yankees play some National League teams early this spring, but they’ll still use a designated hitter. “Usually you have a DH at least until the 15th,” Girardi said. “Then it gets a little trickier. Some teams, when they come here, they say you can DH, but we’re probably going to hit our pitcher. That’s fine with me.”

• The big schedule in Girardi’s office had the name Hamels listed for Saturday, Halladay on Sunday and Blanton on Monday. I haven’t been able to find a Phillies spring rotation online, but I have to assume those names on the board mean the Yankees are facing Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Joe Blanton in their first three spring games.

• Rough start for A.J. Burnett’s time with the Pirates. He has fractured right orbital bone and will undergo surgery on Friday. The Associated Press says there’s no word on how long he’ll be out. Burnett fouled a ball off his face yesterday. The small video clip I saw looked brutal.

• Hal Steinbrenner was asked today about Brian Cashman’s off-the-field issues: “I’m not going to get into personal situations of employees,” Steinbrenner said. “That’s not Yankee business. I can only say that we’re here to support him. He knows that.”

• Steinbrenner on what excites him about this year’s team: “I’m excited that our young guys are one year closer to making a contribution. I’m excited to see Nova again. I’m excited for Hughes. I hear he looks very good, definitely lost some weight. And I’m excited for Pineda. I think it’s going to be interesting. Kuroda (as well). We got some new guys. Good starting pitching is always exciting, right?”

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174 Responses to “Thursday notes: A day to improvise”

  1. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    I will stop using italics, but I don’t want anyone complaining about excessive *’s in my posts :p

  2. Crawdaddy March 1st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

  3. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    “Is capping the salaries/bonuses of CEOs of multi-billion dollar corporations un-American?”

    Shame, if its the multi-billion dollar corporations imposing their own caps, absolutely not.

    Congress didn’t impose salary caps in pro sports leagues, each individual pro sports league did.

    Freedom.

  4. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    . If keeping their payroll below the lux tax threshold is going to help reduce that number, it’s got to be a pretty big deal to the Yankees and Hal.

    They get around 10 million back if they get under for 1 year, ~40 million if they stay under until 2016. They will also not pay luxury tax for 2014 and then reset to a smaller rate if they go over again. So lets assume they would have spent 210 million each year.

    2014
    No Tax: 10 million revenue sharing savings + 10.5 luxury tax savings
    2015
    No Tax: 15 million revenue sharing savings + 10.5 luxury tax savings
    Reset: No revenue sharing savings, 5 million luxury tax fee
    2016
    No Tax: 15 million revenue sharing savings + 10.5 luxury tax savings
    Reset: No revenue sharing savings, 7 million luxury tax fee

    So the difference between resetting and staying under is: 62 million

  5. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    In the next 2 years, NYYs will lose the salaries of Rivera, Soriano, Kuroda, Garcia, Jones and Chavez in the next 2 years. Swisher could go too, but, I’m not so sure that Swisher is gone. Even with resigning Swisher and Cano and the slight pay increases for others, NYYs will get under that thresh hold.

    They have to replace the production lost from those players. And do so while cutting 40 million. Its a daunting task. They need lots of success in the farm the next 2 years. They probably need to cut 46 million depending on how A-rod’s bonuses go. ~50-55 million if they want to leave some room for trade deadline deals.

  6. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Not sure Arod and an Adonis and co-exist on the same roster…

  7. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    A healthy and rested Russell Martin and a more experienced Romine will offer plenty of offense at the catching spot over the next three or so years

    ————————-

    Not really looking forward to that.
    ——————————

    Ha! Seconded.

  8. Nick in SF March 1st, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    So most of you didn’t like Hal’s improv?

  9. spidanyc March 1st, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Jorge Ebro of El Nuevo Herald reports that Cuban player Adonis Garcia has offers from the Athletics and Yankees.
    The Athletics are willing to offer around $18 million over six years while the Yankees would offer $16 million. Garcia, who became a free agent last month, could decide on a team as soon as next week. The 26-year-old has experience as an infielder and oufielder in Cuba and spent this winter with the Magellan Navigators of the Venezuelan League.

    ——————————————————————————————

    Who?

  10. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    The only players guaranteed to be on the team in 2014 are: CC, A-rod, Tex, & Jeter.

  11. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    “A healthy and rested Russell Martin and a more experienced Romine will offer plenty of offense at the catching spot over the next three or so years. They should be the least of NYYs issues.”

    gb7-

    with romine’s bad back, how much can be expected from him ?

    no one knows at this point . it’s starting to get into the chronic area. not good for a young catcher.

    cervelli is one knock to the head away from retirement.

    the yankees are just average at the cacthing position.

    it’s really one of their weakest positions.

    it’s not that they can’t win being average at the position, but i like to be above average at the catching position.

    i’m not real happy with martin and cervelli catching. they are just ok which is better than terrible, but still not ideal.

  12. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    stuckey – You’re right. I just don’t care. I think its stupid any one entity can make as much money as sports leagues and impose rules that save already wealthy owners more money. Especially since those owners aren’t doing a whole lot of the work stuff that actually generates the money. You do not think this is stupid. That is fine. I don’t care. I use the term un-American facetiously, but if you feel the need to interrogate the language feel free.

  13. pat March 1st, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    BillHall_III
    WOW WOW WOW… BEST TEAM GET TOGETHER EVER!!!! EVERY PLAYER HAD TO DO IMPROV COMEDY!! WE R OFFICIALLY FAMILY!!!!!!!!! GREAT LAUGHS #THEQUEST

  14. Bronx Jeers March 1st, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    “Yanks need to launch their own satellite.”

    why can’t they just stream their yes signal on the web?

    i know comcast themselves are going further and further of making their cable programming on the web.

    —————————————————————————————————–

    Time Warner NY customers can stream games. I think they charge 60$ for the season.

  15. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    bill hall is way too excited to be on a team he won’t make out of camp

  16. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Chad, any idea who besides Warren is pitching tomorrow, and how this weekend stacks up?

    Notice, already we have two catchers injured. You never can have enough pitching catching. ;)

  17. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    jerkface – if they let me collect balls around the field and put them in a bucket, i would probably be way more excited than Bill Hall… and they gave him a uniform!

  18. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Chad, any idea who besides Warren is pitching tomorrow, and how this weekend stacks up?

    Garcia/Pineda is supposed to be one of the sat/sunday games, I think the other is Nova.

  19. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Jeers, Cablevision/Optimum also streams Yankee games if their cable customers want to shell out the extra $.

  20. pat March 1st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    If one of the improvs didn’t assign a player to act out each of the beat writers, someone should be fired. :wink:

    BillHall_III
    No video no cameras!!! U won’t find or hear anything about the details!!! STRICTLY PRIVATE!!! BUT THE BOYZ LET LOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! #GR8 TIMES

  21. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    JF, thanks but I meant who is pitching after the “starters.” Wondering if we see some of the kids: Marshall, Killer B’s, DJ and if we had a sched on that yet.

  22. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Garcia, is a right handed outfielder with a strong, athletic, although not limber body. Defensively, he is not very fast and he usually takes poor routes to chase down fly balls. When he gets to the ball he elects to field the ball the hardest way possible. Every fly ball with him is like a Stephen King novel. His footwork is awful when fielding the ball as nothing is smooth with him. He doesn’t position himself correctly when fielding, so he losses a lot of time between catching the ball and getting rid of it and atop of that, his arm isn’t very strong either.

    He’s not a fast guy, but he won’t be the slowest guy on the team. Offensively he has the tools to become an above average Major League hitter. He is a pure hitter who makes a lot of contact and has quick hands that allows him to drive the ball to the gaps. He has great bat speed, so it seems like the ball jumps off his bat when he hits. If you analyze his swing you could see how he uses his small muscles (wrists, forearms) to trigger his bigger muscles (biceps, hips). He also has raw power, so he can deliver the long ball every once in a while. If developed correctly, he could be a 15-20 HR’s hitter in the Majors. His downside offensively is his plate discipline. He rarely takes a walk, and he is not the kind of hitter who will wear down a pitcher.

    This is all I found on Adonis Garcia, he came over last january but got busted by MLB for submitting false documents so no one could sign him for 6 months.

  23. Cashmoney March 1st, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2.....l-fracture

  24. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    “I think its stupid any one entity can make as much money as sports leagues and impose rules that save already wealthy owners more money.”

    Well, let’s be clear, in baseball there is NO rule about how much money a team can spend. NONE. There is just consequences to spending at certain, which is not the same thing.

    And whether we want to debate the “language” or not, sticking to the premise I can’t understand how its stupid to allow an league to make its own rules.

    The basic concept is alien.

    That said, if you don’t like wealthy owners pocketing your money, the most obvious and most effective solution is don’t give them your money.

    Don’t increase their ratings thereby generating more value in those ratings.

  25. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Romine is a long way from having chronic back issues. It’s not something that concerns me.

  26. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    The interview on that ESPN link with Tito is pretty good.

  27. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    More on Garcia via BA:

    “Adonis Garcia, of

    A 26-year-old righthanded hitter, Garcia made his Serie Nacional debut in 2004, but he struggled for his first few seasons. He broke out as one of the league’s better hitters in 2008-09, when he batted .355/.426/.613 in 282 at-bats for Ciego de Avila. He hit .334/.397/.623 in 308 at-bats in his final season in 2010-11 before he defected. His cousin, 23-year-old outfielder Yem Prades, signed with the Royals last year for $285,000 and played for high Class A Wilmington.

    MLB ruled in August that Garcia would not be eligible to sign for six months because he submitted fraudulent residency paperwork, so he could become available at some point in the near future. Though only 5-foot-7, 180 pounds and lacking any standout tools, the righthanded-hitting Garcia has surprised some scouts with his performance this winter for Aragua in the Venezuelan League. After hitting .270/.313/.461 in 152 at-bats during the regular season, Garcia has batted .382/.440/.579 in 76 at-bats in the playoffs, leading postseason batters in hits and ranking second in total bases.

    Garcia shows some feel for hitting and surprising power for his size, but it’s hard to project a big league role for him. He’s played some at second and third base, but he’s played mostly left field in Venezuela. He’s around an average runner and could start out in Double-A or Triple-A.”

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....12876.html

    Played in Venezuelan league; know anything about him, Luis?

  28. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:29 pm
    Romine is a long way from having chronic back issues. It’s not something that concerns me.
    _____
    I hope so. I would love to see him stay healthy for once. He was really flying last season before he got hurt.

  29. Tom in N.J. March 1st, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Adonis Garcia is 26 year old 3b/of’er from Cuba. He’s right-handed and put up some insane numbers in Cuba:

    He hit .355/.426/.613 in 2007-2008; .332/.397/.543 in 2008-2009; and,
    .334/.398/.623 in 2009-2010.

  30. yankeefeminista March 1st, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    I am out of here; have a good one, all.

  31. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    A healthy and rested Russell Martin and a more experienced Romine will offer plenty of offense at the catching spot over the next three or so years

    ————————-

    Not really looking forward to that.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Really doesn’t make any difference what you’re looking forward to. Martin isn’t exactly a dog and neither is Romine. They won’t hit 35-40 homers, but, they’ll hit. They have everywhere they’ve been.

  32. blake March 1st, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    “bill hall is way too excited to be on a team he won’t make out of camp”

    I know….kinda feel bad for him….

  33. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    He’s right-handed and put up some insane numbers in Cuba:

    Everyone puts up insane numbers in Cuba :) Its a hitters league.

  34. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    They have everywhere they’ve been.

    Romine hasn’t hit in AA

  35. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    “Don’t increase their ratings thereby generating more value in those ratings.”

    I will be a one-woman team of silent freedom fighters :D

    On to the next….. Cano gets at least $180 over 10. Does anyone disagree? I’m actually thinking it will be $200 million.

  36. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Romine is hardly the first player to have a sore back early in ST…..including catchers and pitchers.

  37. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Also has back trouble 2 years in a row, which is ALMOST chronic.

  38. Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Best To Ever Do It March 1st, 2012 at 2:06 pm
    A healthy and rested Russell Martin and a more experienced Romine will offer plenty of offense at the catching spot over the next three or so years

    ————————-

    Not really looking forward to that.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Really doesn’t make any difference what you’re looking forward to. Martin isn’t exactly a dog and neither is Romine. They won’t hit 35-40 homers, but, they’ll hit. They have everywhere they’ve been.

    ————————————

    Didn’t Martin cool off after his hot start last yr?

  39. Tom in N.J. March 1st, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    Jerkface, I know. Dude slugged in the .620s and finished, like, 10th in the league

  40. Tom in N.J. March 1st, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Fangtaphs Yankees prospect list:

    2. Jose Campos, RHP

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....k-yankees/

  41. yanks 27 March 1st, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Garcia sucks

    Sign Solar

  42. jacksquat March 1st, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    With Cano they’ll probably wait until his contract/options expire and sign him for 8 years to play through his age 38 year. Yay. If they are going to be smart about the payroll the time to resign him is now, not pay likely declining players high salaries at ages 37, 38.

  43. Nick in SF March 1st, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Romine would put up insane numbers in Cuba and its governement health care system would fix his bad back. #commonground

  44. randy l. March 1st, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    gb7-

    i agree and disagree with you.

    i agree that the catching position won’t hurt the yankees because they are league average in their stats.

    i disagree that the yankees shouldn’t be trying to be better at the position.

    i also would feel better if romine was getting a real shot at the back up position.

    girardi seems like he simply favors cervelli for some unknown reason which is weird because he throws so badly.

    i’m not sure that girardi hasn’t already made up his mind.

  45. luis March 1st, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    Hi again,

    Yankeefem,

    He played leftfield for Magallanes, he batted 338 during the regular season…as soon as i can get his stats i´ll supply them.

  46. Tom in N.J. March 1st, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    In communist Cuba the game plays you?

  47. MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 2:37 pm
    Romine is hardly the first player to have a sore back early in ST…..including catchers and pitchers.

    ———————————————————————–

    When you get to be our age and you don’t have a sore back you start checking the obits. :lol:

  48. luis March 1st, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    I might add that he K´d only nine times in 67 at bats, but has little patience at the plate…..1 walk. I t seems that he is like Cano, very high contact hitter, no plate discipline…..I don´t know if he has a similar swing as Cano, but the contact ability he does.

  49. luis March 1st, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Made an error…..he batted 270 with 6 homers and 26 RBI´s in the regular season, in the post season his stats were 382/440/588

  50. Warning Track Power March 1st, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Rough start for A.J. Burnett’s time with the Pirates. He has fractured right orbital bone and will undergo surgery on Friday. The Associated Press says there’s no word on how long he’ll be out. Burnett fouled a ball off his face yesterday. The small video clip I saw looked brutal.
    *********************************************************************
    I feel bad for A.J. I really hope he can recover. What if this injury is career ending? Could be. You never know. Maybe playing for the Pirates was not in the cards.

  51. MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    luis March 1st, 2012 at 2:52 pm
    Made an error
    —————————————————-

    If he only made one error I guess his defense is good.

  52. luis March 1st, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Best,

    If you take out his hot April his avg was 225 in the past three years

  53. austinmac March 1st, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    I would rather spend that extra money and sign Soler. How many 5’7″ outfielders can you recall, especially ones without speed?

    I don’t mind the idea of Martin and Romine for the next few years, but I doubt the Yankees will pay Martin. If he has a year as good or better than last, he will get a minimum of $8M/year. I would guess more like $10-12M. The Yankees will have $70M or so to spread around for 35 players. I doubt they are spending 1/7th of that on Martin.

  54. luis March 1st, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    Maine,

    LOL!!, I made a mistake!! supplied the wrong stats

  55. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    austinmac March 1st, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    I don´t like the idea of extending Martin, but if Romine keeps on having health issues or doesn´t have a good year in triple A, they either extend Martin (yikes!) or get FA, someone like Miguel Montero.

  56. MaineYankee March 1st, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    luis March 1st, 2012 at 2:58 pm
    Maine,

    LOL!!, I made a mistake!! supplied the wrong stats

    —————————————–

    I couldn’t resist. :D:

  57. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Maine,

    i know!!! :)

  58. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    austinmac,
    How about Albie Pearson?

  59. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    You see, in spanish the translation of mistake would be “error”, since i was reading spanish in order to get the stats i kind of mixed both languages a bit.

  60. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    I asked before but no one answer: You can have the WC and WC2 come from the same division, correct?

  61. dan l March 1st, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Jerkface how/where did you come up with your revenue sharing dollars savings? I think those numbers are way to low.

  62. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Yes shame, it´s record based

  63. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Jerkface how/where did you come up with your revenue sharing dollars savings? I think those numbers are way to low.

    Its what every article about it estimates their savings at. ~40 million from 2014-2016.

  64. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    For if they are at $189 million or less for the three seasons from 2014-16, they not only avoid paying one cent in luxury tax, which would rise to 50 percent for them as repeat offenders, but they also would get roughly $40 million in savings via the to-be-implemented market disqualification revenue sharing program. However, only teams under the luxury-tax threshold get reimbursed in this program, which is designed to prevent big markets such as Toronto and Washington from receiving revenue sharing dollars, which in turn will lower how much teams such as the Yanks pay (as long as they are under the threshold).

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....D2c6NKXCRM

  65. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Hi Tom,

    Hope everytihng is great up there!!….Who is Albie Pearson?

  66. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Luis – I figured I just wanted to make sure that the Yankees, Red Sox, and not-so-Devil Rays were all going to be in the playoffs this year.

  67. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Very interesting that Hal went outta his way to mention that Hughes had lost weight. Hughes needs to have a good ST, get outta the gate fast, or he is gonna be Seriously dangled. When the owner shoots the breeze for a mere 6 minutes, and injects a player by name in connection with a weight issue, I’m guessin’ that player is in the Dog House, and being put on-notice Publicly.

  68. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Shame,

    Don´t discount the blue Jays or either Rangers or Angels, maybe even Seattle

  69. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    luis,
    Albie Pearson was a 5 foot five inch, 140 pound center fielder who was Rookie of the Year for the old Washington Senators in 1958. Played with Baltimore a little while before being taken in the LA Angels expansion draft in 1960. Good defense, no hitting, slow of foot. I liked him!

  70. Warning Track Power March 1st, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Very interesting that Hal went outta his way to mention that Hughes had lost weight. Hughes needs to have a good ST, get outta the gate fast, or he is gonna be Seriously dangled. When the owner shoots the breeze for a mere 6 minutes, and injects a player by name in connection with a weight issue, I’m guessin’ that player is in the Dog House, and being put on-notice Publicly.
    ************************************************
    Hughes must earn his way onto the team.
    I like the fact that Girardi has not guaranteed Hughes a spot in the rotation.

  71. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Just signing on. Thanks Jerkface for reprinting the Sherman article and your earlier post on the monetary gains the Yankees would garner by not only staying within the 189M threshold for 2014, but for all years of the new CBA.

    The question is, if you are the team treasurer, what decsions will need to be made between now and the start of the 2014 season?

    Here’s the attached spreadsheet of Yankee payroll obligations thru 2017.

    https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tpQLwiiQL4kzEzLhsUqVjLQ&output=html

  72. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    luis – I will discount Seattle, but not the Angles/Rangers lol.

  73. austinmac March 1st, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Tom,

    I laugh about Albie Pearson because I actually thought of him when I posted. That does prove your age, Tom.

    For Luis benefit, Albie was a tiny,5’4” maybe, outfielder for the expansion era Angels.

  74. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    thanks Tom!!, hard to imagine such a short player playing a demanding position, especially if he was slow of foot. he must been very fast in order to compensate

  75. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    luis,
    We’ve got a sunny 78 degree day here, but there’ve been tornados and heavy thunderstorms around, too. All is well, though.

  76. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Keep in mind that the new revenue sharing is only a rebate of the portion of revenue sharing the Yankees would have given to teams like the red sox and blue jays. Those teams will have their revenue sharing removed anyways by 2016, but to get the rebate you need to be under the luxury tax threshold.

    So its not a rebate based on their total revenue sharing, just a portion of the money that would have went to the blue jays or such. Yankees will still shell out a lot in revenue sharing.

  77. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    austin,
    Took a lot of walks, but never stole any bases. Littlest guy I ever saw play, and no, I didnt see Eddie Gaedel!

  78. austinmac March 1st, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Trader,

    Thanks for posting the payroll obligations.

  79. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Tom,

    Be careful, those twisters are very unpredictible, stay safe….Love the temp though, what a weird winter

  80. Pat M. March 1st, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    I remember seeing Freddie Patek for the first time at Fort Meyers and I thought he was a little leaguer, but man could he play

  81. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Pat M
    But Patek could run and steal bases. He was good.

  82. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Here’s the attached spreadsheet of Yankee payroll obligations thru 2017

    ===================================

    Trader, those are ACTUAL payroll numbers and not the number each player will count against the luxury tax. For example, if Jeter does indeed play in 2014, his lux tax number is much higher than $3 million. In fact, I’m pretty sure it’s $14M. No matter what Arod is being paid, his lux tax number is $27.5 and it could go higher in some years when he starts hitting those bonuses.

  83. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    luis,
    That’s why God gave us basements.

  84. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Options I think only count what the option is, so it will be 8 million for Jeter (or more if he gets any of his bonuses lol good luck jeter)

  85. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Don’t you only pay the tax (based on the AAV of your contracts) if your single year obligations go over the mark?

    They don’t track your AAV of your contracts every year to determine the tax hits, only to figure out the penalty.

  86. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Keep in mind that the new revenue sharing is only a rebate of the portion of revenue sharing the Yankees would have given to teams like the red sox and blue jays

    =====================================

    Pretty sure the Red Sox haven’t been on the good end of the revenue sharing program in quite some time. They’re always a payor, never a receiver. Jays, Nats. Teams like that are who this is really directed at.

  87. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    It’s too bad about Burnett. If he’s needing surgery immediately for an orbital fracture, it means he most likely has involvement with entrapment of one of the ocular muscles, that would cause double vision.

    If pitchers are going to take batting practice, maybe the Markwort C-Flap helmet attachment would help avoid maxillofacial trauma.It would have helped prevent the fractured maxilla, SJ44′s nephew, Tony Sanchez had when hit the first time by a pitch, not the second time, last October when in a bar fight.

  88. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Albie Pearson was hardly slow afoot. You’re forgetting that the only one stealing bases in the AL dueing that time was Luis Aparicio.

  89. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Yankees will still shell out a lot in revenue sharing.

    And this will not change based on their payroll.

    Luxury tax revenues the league collects are NOT funneled into the revenue sharing program, they fund separate youth and IFA programs.

    I know you are aware of this JF, just making a general statement.

  90. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    You gotta company worth several Billion $$$, it’s currently running in the black, and your concerned over paying a Tax that absolutely pales in comparison to the current and future value of the company. Friends, meet Gordon Gecko alias Hal Steinbrenner.

  91. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    GB7,
    I guess you’re right. Pearson could cover ground in Center.

  92. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Options I think only count what the option is, so it will be 8 million for Jeter (or more if he gets any of his bonuses lol good luck jeter)

    ==================================

    Could be. I was under the impression that when it’s a player option, that it’s factored in from the get go, and in luxury tax terms, his contract is viewed as a 4 year/$56M deal. I thought the option counted for what it is, when it’s a club option. Could be wrong on that.

  93. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Don’t you only pay the tax (based on the AAV of your contracts) if your single year obligations go over the mark?

    They don’t track your AAV of your contracts every year to determine the tax hits, only to figure out the penalty.

    Luxury tax is counted by AAV. Not by single year. The ‘true payroll’ is what you owe on a specific year, but for luxury tax purposes its by AAV. So the Yankees need to get under 189 by AAV, not by single year.

  94. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Pretty sure the Red Sox haven’t been on the good end of the revenue sharing program in quite some time. They’re always a payor, never a receiver. Jays, Nats. Teams like that are who this is really directed at.

    This is true, its just that boston was specifically mentioned on the 15 team list that is getting pushed out of the revenue sharing thing, so its not like the rebate can be huge, since they will still be paying to teams like the pirates.

  95. dan l March 1st, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Jerkface those numbers I believe are wrong. Vince Gennaro on MLBTV’s show Clubhouse Confidential last month tagged the revenue sharing savings at around 100 million if the Yankees are under 189 from 14-16.

    This makes more sense if the Yankees are paying at least 115 million in revenue sharing dollars. Hank last year mentioned something close to this number in the NYP.

    ————————————————————————————————–

    Beginning in the 2013 season, teams on this list can get back a percentage of what they pay in revenue sharing (referred to as a “rebate”). In 2013, those teams would get 25 percent of their money back. In 2014, those teams would get 50 percent of their money back. In 2015, those teams would get 75 percent of their money back, all the way up until 2016, when they would basically get a free pass.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/4555484.....al_Mistake

  96. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Dogface-

    I posted the spreadsheet as a guidline. Jeter has an 8M player option for 2014 with a 3M club buyout. Also there are A’Rods bonuses for hitting the $30M marketing agreement based on home run milestones ($6M each for reaching 660, 714, 755 and tying and breaking major league HR record).

  97. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    DONNY,
    In my business, maximizing customer satisfaction (i.e., repeat business) while controlling costs to the extent possible is what leads to success. Different that your business, or the Yankees’?

  98. DONNYBROOK March 1st, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Is this a NY Yankee Blog or a CPA Blog?????

  99. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Options are tricky, Dogface here is an article I just searched about it:

    This isn’t the first such deal the Red Sox have signed that contained potential hidden costs on the back end. Speier mentions the one year $9M contract Adrian Beltre signed before the 2010 season. Like Scutaro’s deal, it contained a player option for the 2011 season. Since the option was held by Beltre and not the Red Sox, Major League Baseball deemed the option as “guaranteed season” since the player held the power to exercise it. As a result, MLB treated the contract as if it was for two years $14M. The creative luxury tax accounting allowed his contract to only be counted as $7M toward the 2010 luxury tax. When Beltre decided to decline his 2011 player option to become a free agent, the contract reverted to the one year $9M deal. Due to the discrepancy in the two figures, the Red Sox were forced to “repay” the $2M they ”saved” in 2010 toward the 2011 luxury tax calculation. A similar situation happened when Scutaro’s team option was exercised.

    http://firebrandal.com/2012/01.....ent-moves/

  100. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Beginning in the 2013 season, teams on this list can get back a percentage of what they pay in revenue sharing (referred to as a “rebate”). In 2013, those teams would get 25 percent of their money back. In 2014, those teams would get 50 percent of their money back. In 2015, those teams would get 75 percent of their money back, all the way up until 2016, when they would basically get a free pass.

    Yes Dan, but this is only applied to the 15 teams that are no longer receiving revenue sharing by 2016.

  101. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    DONNY,
    You’re the one who says that saving $100 million in taxes is trivial. I don’t want your CPA.

  102. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    Pearson was a solid leadoff hitter and a pretty fine center fielder. Pretty decent arm, too. Senators had the ’58 and ’59 ROYs. They just never could get the pitching in that big park to do anything to help them. Griffith was as bad as an owner as Angelos is. Always looking at some way to save a few pennies.

  103. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    The Yanks could perhaps get away with being under the LT threshold in 2014. They can’t get away with being under the LT threshold all three years, they will have close to $75M tied up all three years in ARod, Tex and an ageing CC.

    Missing the playoffs one year to reset the tax is one thing, but missing the playoffs three years – which could easily happen if the Yanks stay under the threshold – will cost them a boatload of money.

    I had always thought this threshold goal was a one year thing.

  104. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    jerkface – So in 2014 the AAV of their entire payroll must be under $189mil? That’s not how I understood it at all… that’s much harder to do as well…

  105. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    JF:

    So using the Beltre example, Jeter’s deal is then really viewed as a 4 year/$56M deal, with AAV of $14M each season, right? Should Jeter decide to retire following 2013, it would revert to a 3 year $54M deal (I’m assuming he gets the $3M buyout), and the Yankees would get slammed for $12M they didn’t pay over 2011-2013?

  106. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    So in 2014 the AAV of their entire payroll must be under $189mil? That’s not how I understood it at all… that’s much harder to do as well…

    Yes. Thats how luxury tax is calculated, so you can’t structure contracts with like alternating really low salaries to get under the threshold.

  107. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    So using the Beltre example, Jeter’s deal is then really viewed as a 4 year/$56M deal, with AAV of $14M each season, right? Should Jeter decide to retire following 2013, it would revert to a 3 year $54M deal (I’m assuming he gets the $3M buyout), and the Yankees would get slammed for $12M they didn’t pay over 2011-2013?

    Yea I guess so? After reading that artcile I would interpret it that way. Player option is counted as AAV. Getting hit for retroactive payments based on options is harsh business, mlb.

  108. blake March 1st, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    “I had always thought this threshold goal was a one year thing.”

    My guess is they’d like it to be all the time….

  109. luis March 1st, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    WYH,

    I think the strategy is to get below 189 in 2014, just to reset the clock, not in a constant basis as far as i know..Which means that once the clock is reset they wiil up again and maybe go lower again in 2017 to reset it again, I could be wrong though

  110. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    and the Yankees would get slammed for $12M they didn’t pay over 2011-2013?

    ==================================

    That should read they’d get slammed FOR THE TAX on $12M ($4.8M) they didn’t pay over 2011-2013

  111. dan l March 1st, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Jerkface that article mentions up too a 100% revenue sharing rebate. So is there money the Yankees are paying in besides this? The question I have is if all teams are under the luxury tax threshold for years 13-16 would there be any money available to payout to teams that qualify to receive revenue sharing after the 2016 season?

    Remember the Yankees pay the most revenue sharing dollars so their rebate should be very substantial.

  112. luis March 1st, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    Blake,

    If you are correct, the players shot themselves in the foot. Because how many longterm expensive contracts are going to be available from now on??

  113. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    Roughly the Yankees have 80-86M in contracts that would be counted toward the LT for 2014-A’Rod, Sabathia, Teixeira and Jeter if he exercises his 8M option. This is a rough figure as A’Rod might reach a homer milestone in 2014 and the figure above is not based on the AAV o fJeter and A-Rod.

    GB-
    Who might be ready from the minors to fill many of the positions needed to round out the roster. I would imagine Cano will be extended and possibly Granderson.

    Can the Yankees field a competitive playoff team in 2014 and beyond while staying under the 189M LT.

  114. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    jerkface – So in 2014 the AAV of their entire payroll must be under $189mil? That’s not how I understood it at all… that’s much harder to do as well…
    ——————————

    I hate the new CBA and the misinformed players that agreed to such nonsense.

    Cano gets $200 million, right?

  115. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Time will tell what the Yankees long term payroll intentions are.

    For now, it is clear they are pushing hard to get under the cap for 2014.

    That is all we really KNOW.

    The rest is pure guesswork.

    I agree with WYH. My Hope is that is just a temporary thing.

    If not we are loosing an important edge. Our financial might.

    I hope that is not the case.

    ;)

  116. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    “My guess is they’d like it to be all the time….”

    If the Yanks stay under the threshold they’ll be just another team.

  117. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    This is a rough figure as A’Rod might reach a homer milestone in 2014 and the figure above is not based on the AAV o fJeter and A-Rod

    =================================

    Bonuses are factored in at the end of the year they are achieved/obtained. If they believe Rodriguez will hit one in 2014, they’d need to plan accordingly.

  118. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Thank God, there’s a real (exhibition) game on Saturday.

  119. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    “My guess is they’d like it to be all the time….”

    If the Yanks stay under the threshold they’ll be just another team.

    ———————————

    Oh the humanityyy!

    Hehehehe, just kidding, WYH. I agree its gross.

    The fun part about being a Yankees fan is having all the money. The fun part for non-Yankees fans is beating the team with all the money. The fun part of baseball depends on the Yankees spending the most money! Why can’t people see that? ;)

  120. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Jerkface that article mentions up too a 100% revenue sharing rebate. So is there money the Yankees are paying in besides this? The question I have is if all teams are under the luxury tax threshold for years 13-16 would there be any money available to payout to teams that qualify to receive revenue sharing after the 2016 season?

    Remember the Yankees pay the most revenue sharing dollars so their rebate should be very substantial.

    The revenue sharing rebate is based on money that would go towards the top 15 media market teams, which right now are eligible for revenue sharing based on… some voodoo. So those are getting phased out.

    Money that would have been sent to those teams can be had in the rebate for staying under the luxury tax. They are not getting rid of revenue sharing.

    The Yankees pay about ~30% of the revenue sharing in baseball.

  121. Irreverent Discourse March 1st, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    MTU – *If not we are loosing an important edge. Our financial might.*

    The question I pose then is… would baseball be better or worse if teams couldn’t just “spend more” to be better?

  122. luis March 1st, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    MTU,

    Good observation….If they plan to stay under the threshold, they not only lose their financial might, they might lose their income as well….Who will be paying those luxury boxes to go watch a team that is not competitive?

  123. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    According to the source, the 15 teams that will be ineligible for revenue sharing by 2016 are the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Cubs, White Sox, Phillies, Red Sox, Rangers, Braves, Nationals, Blue Jays, Astros, Giants and Athletics.

    The A’s will be eligible for revenue sharing until their stadium situation is resolved, the source said.

  124. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    “The question I pose then is… would baseball be better or worse if teams couldn’t just “spend more” to be better?”

    Like in many situations, where you stand depends on where you sit. The “not haves” would be better and the “haves” worse.

    More people live in the land of the “haves” than live in the land of the “not haves”, but if you are a Royals fan you would love it.

  125. Nick in SF March 1st, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    If the Yankees spend $188 million and no other team spends $188 million, aren’t they still spending the most money?

  126. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    What was Detroit’s payroll last year? Were they competitive? I thought the Yankees were the only team in baseball paying the luxury tax. Am I wrong?

  127. dan l March 1st, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    With respect to Alex contract…Maury Brown of the Biz of Baseball answered this over at YFU last month.

    4) ARod’s monstrosity of a contract includes a $30M Marketing Agreement that pays him $6M every time he hits a milestone HR. What does this mean and how will that money effect the AAV of his deal for Luxury Tax calculations?

    M.B. – It does factor, minus the AAV. The money in the marketing deal gets amortized differently. But, it counts against the CBT and revenue-sharing, once they kick in.

  128. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Cano gets $200 million, right?

    =====================

    No. I’d say something around what A Gonzalez got from Boston. 7/$154M-ish

  129. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    “If the Yankees spend $188 million and no other team spends $188 million, aren’t they still spending the most money?”

    If every team could start fresh in 2014 then spending the most money would be an advantage. Unfortunately, the Yanks can’t start fresh.

  130. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    ID-

    It would probably put on a fairer footing.

    However, I must be honest. I am first and foremost a Yankee fan. I like having an edge. I like looking at championship trophies. I like winning.

    Not to say we can’t compete without outspending everyone because I beleive we can.

    I like being able to supplement our excellent Farm with select FA’s. Sometimes that takes more money than the next guy.

    I am not at the mercy of some ideal standard of fairness. That’s not my charter. I’m a Yankee fan.

    Not a league fan.

    ;)

  131. Bronx Jeers March 1st, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    You could argue that they have also been hurt by their financial might.

    Hal didn’t make any guarantees. If there’s a need to spend, I think they’ll do it.

  132. Erin March 1st, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    MarcCarig “I love days like today because we grow closer as a team. We had fun.” – Ivan Nova

    MarcCarig Yep, Yankees doing improve at their team function today http://yfrog.com/h4x24lgj

  133. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    So let say for arguments sake thatJjeter plays in 2014 and A-Rod doesn’t rach a homer plateau that year. A-Rod , Tex, CC and Jeter wil acount for 88-90M. Let’s say Cano is willing to play for less to stay in NY- 20M AAV and Granderson for 17M AAV. I’ll round it off for those 6 at 125M.

    Find a catcher, RF’er[unless that's Jeter-then we'll need a SS], and the rest of the 40 man roster.

    I’m pretty sure the Yankees won’t be signing the likes of Cain, Hamels, or any other long term older FA committment.

    Any minor leaguers that will possibly be ready to fill out the positions and pitching staff?

  134. Erin March 1st, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    MarcCarig Clearly, somebody set the MT25 to “improvisational comedy.”

    MarcCarig “I saw Tex today in a way that I could have never imagined. You should have seen him!” – Ivan Nova

  135. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    Don’t forget the new CBA also largely does away with the Yanks’ advantage in signing international free agents.

  136. dan l March 1st, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    Jerkface if the Yankees could receive a 100% rebate an all other teams are getting 100% rebates then there should be no money to share? Does this end revenue sharing for good if this happened?

  137. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Don’t forget the new CBA also largely does away with the Yanks’ advantage in signing international free agents.

    I think this will hurt less than the draft and other crap in there. The Yankees already work a strategy of signing many 2nd and 3rd tier guys for smaller bonuses, so I think they can do that, plus the penalties arent as harsh in IFA.

    If they spend like 10% over the budget they can sign 1 guy for above 500k and the rest under it, which is already what they do. And if they spend 11%+ they cannot offer anything above 500k the next year. So they can go way over budget for a guy like Gary Sanchez or Jesus Montero, and as long as they feel the next class won’t be as good, they can then just do their normal strategy the next year by paying 5-10 guys 500k or less.

    What the IFA rules might do is just turn some prospects off from baseball to soccer, which I do not like. It is one area where the Yankees can actually use their financial power against the rest of the league, since they might be more willing to pay the 100% tax penalty on overages and the signing penalty doesnt really alter their current strategy.

    The new IFA rules really bone teams like texas, oakland, & kansas city.

  138. Nick in SF March 1st, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    “If every team could start fresh in 2014 then spending the most money would be an advantage. Unfortunately, the Yanks can’t start fresh.”

    No, but the players already under contract for 2014 will provide a benefit to the team. CC, for example.

    Arod, the most obvious counter-example, probably won’t be worth either the $27.5 million or the opportunity costs involved, but he will still provide some value and could provide a lot of value.

    Spending the most money will still be an advantage.

  139. Patrick March 1st, 2012 at 4:21 pm

    This new CBA is going to backfire on MLB so hard, I’m just worried that Selig and his buddies will be too stupid to realize the CBA is the cause…

  140. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Any minor leaguers that will possibly be ready to fill out the positions and pitching staff?

    ===========================================

    Sure. Banuelos, maybe Betances. Pineda will only be an Arb 1. Same with Nova. Hughes will be a free agent though. Chamberlain too.

    Right field? That might be a thing. Especially since you’re probably underselling Cano by $2-$3M per season. We’ll see on the catcher thing. Maybe Romine is up to the job. Maybe Martin and the Yankees settle in at 3 years/$25M or so.

    The Yankees are banking on the young pitching working out here. This was a factor in the Pineda/Montero trade, IMO.

  141. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 4:00 pm
    Roughly the Yankees have 80-86M in contracts that would be counted toward the LT for 2014-A’Rod, Sabathia, Teixeira and Jeter if he exercises his 8M option. This is a rough figure as A’Rod might reach a homer milestone in 2014 and the figure above is not based on the AAV o fJeter and A-Rod.

    GB-
    Who might be ready from the minors to fill many of the positions needed to round out the roster. I would imagine Cano will be extended and possibly Granderson.

    Can the Yankees field a competitive playoff team in 2014 and beyond while staying under the 189M LT.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Trader, it sort of depends on whether Maxwell can to anything with the bat. I’d give him a chance to prove it one way or the other. Other than finding out if Romine can play other positions. If he can play a corner outfield, he’d be a bat to use there. Other than that, not really much above Tampa that can help. danny Brewer has lost more than a full year with injuries and Mesa, with all of his tools just isn’t improving fast enough. It takes him a year and a half at least at each level. Maybe this is the year that it clicks. Not expecting it, though. Rob Lyerly and Rob Segidin will hit, but, both are still learning. I’m hoping that Laird can click in, too. He has good power to all fields and the defense is really improving and could be a 4 corner player.

  142. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Pineda will only be an Arb 1

    He might end up a super-2 and be Arb II in 2014.

  143. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    Patrick,
    It’ll backfire on the union, too. Old guys going free-agent are already facing tough times, and they’re dues payers. A lot of one-year FA contracts coming.

  144. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    Martin will/would get about $9.5- $10 mil a year on the open market. Depends on what Miguel Montero and Mike Napoli get. They are the range that Martin will be in, not Molina.

  145. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    “Arod, the most obvious counter-example, probably won’t be worth either the $27.5 million or the opportunity costs involved, but he will still provide some value and could provide a lot of value.

    Spending the most money will still be an advantage.”

    Well, if hypothetically ARod is worth $17.5M and the Yanks are assessed $27.5M for him, then again at least hypothetically a team spending $180M could have an advantage over the Yanks spending $188M, right? Throw Tex in there as well, and perhaps a declining CC and the advantage goes away.

  146. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    This new CBA is going to backfire on MLB so hard, I’m just worried that Selig and his buddies will be too stupid to realize the CBA is the cause

    =====================================

    I don’t think the luxury tax/revenue sharing piece of it will hurt the game much at all, but the Rule 4 Draft/Internaitonal Free Agency thing could prove disasterous, though moreso the draft than the IFA’s, who really have no place else to go anyway.

  147. m March 1st, 2012 at 4:26 pm

    The improv session is a great idea. The guys get to ham it up. :)

    YF,

    Can you link the quotes by Russel Martin where he said the Yankees should scrimp in other areas so he can get his?

  148. stuckey March 1st, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    I think its safe to say in the eyes of some Yankees fans, the Yankees should use their financial advantage to sign marque players to big contracts.

    When some of these big contracts wind up being less productive sooner than anticipated, the Yankees should just spend more to make up for those.

    Assuming some of THESE new contracts wind up being less productive earlier than anticipated, more new spending should take place to make for for that.

    The model is an essentially open-ended no-limit spending escalation.

  149. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    dogface March 1st, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Cano gets $200 million, right?

    =====================

    No. I’d say something around what A Gonzalez got from Boston. 7/$154M-ish
    ————————————-

    This is where my thinking comes from, dogface: Cano is arguably the best 2nd baseman in the league. Boras is his agent, so he’ll be touted as the best in the league for sure. He’s in his prime. Plays almost every game. Has not been seriously injured. Provides power from a premium position. Provides Gold Glove defense. And I’m not ruling out that he doesn’t secure an MVP award before he hits FA.

    I think with a player like that… Boras starts at 10/200. Now, I dunno that he really gets that.. especially with this new CBA. But I also thought there was no way in hell Carl Crawford was getting $170 million. And there is something to be said for baseball salaries never going down. They haven’t thus far, and I’m not sure they will.

    I think Cano gets more than Crawford.

  150. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Thanks for the feedback. Might we see Mason Williams in 2014?

  151. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Might we see Mason Williams in 2014?

    That would be really aggressive. Not as a starter I don’t think. He’d have to advance 4 levels in 2 years.

  152. Patrick March 1st, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    I don’t think the luxury tax/revenue sharing piece of it will hurt the game much at all, but the Rule 4 Draft/Internaitonal Free Agency thing could prove disasterous, though moreso the draft than the IFA’s, who really have no place else to go anyway.

    I think the luxury tax / revenue sharing will be just as bad for the game as the changes to the draft and international free agency. As much as fans hate to admit it, MLB’s success is closely tied to the success of big market teams like the Yankees. And I anticipate this luxury tax thing really hurting the yankees by 2014.

  153. austinmac March 1st, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    I don’t see any starting position players coming up from the minors before 2015 except perhaps Romine. Maxwell can’t make enough contact, and his clock is ticking very fast. Perhaps, Adams if he could ever get healthy. Laird has a longish swing, but I won’t rule him out completely.

    Long story short is they have to trade for a young, good outfielder and third baseman. I have hope Nunez can man short.

  154. Jerkface March 1st, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Williams only has 300 PAs in short season. A realistic estimate is 3 years until he is a september callup.

  155. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Trader, if Williams finishes 2012 in Tampa, it’s possible. There’s another catcher on the way in Tejeda. He’s one that they need to look at changing positions. A catcher he isn’t.

  156. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Mac-

    “Long story short is they have to trade for a young, good outfielder”

    I can see it.

    We have the chips to make it happen.

  157. Nick in SF March 1st, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    “…at least hypothetically a team spending $180M could have an advantage over the Yanks spending $188M, right? Throw Tex in there as well, and perhaps a declining CC and the advantage goes away.”

    But your hypothetical assumes that the other team is getting some mythical full value from all of its $180M payroll and doesn’t have any overvalued contracts of its own.

    Yes, the Yankees’ advantage is going down in theory, but in practice I don’t think it will be as grim as you’re suggesting, where the Yankees are just another team.

  158. Nick in SF March 1st, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    “Can you link the quotes by Russel Martin where he said the Yankees should scrimp in other areas so he can get his?”

    m, welcome to the “link?” dark side. :evil:

  159. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    Ronnier Mustelier is a three possition infilder that can hit, good glove, only a little power, but, fairly advanced and could be in NY be late next summer. Keep an eye on Deangelo Mack this year, too.

  160. tomingeorgia March 1st, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    When the Rays have 189 mil tom spend, there’s going to be hell to pay.

  161. blake March 1st, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    If the AAV difference between Martin and Montero is 5 million or less then they need to spend the money and get fake Montero

  162. m March 1st, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    No, I won’t ask anyone for a link to their opinion.

    Sounded like it was something attributed to Martin.

  163. Shame Spencer March 1st, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    stuckey – There will always be a faction of fans that want the Yanks to sign every big name FA, but I think most would be happy with them spending smarter. Consistently. You’ve claimed several times that the Yanks curtailing their payroll has been a long time coming and nothing surprising. I agree completely. But then some moves made in the very recent past (Soriano) make even less sense, don’t they?

    If the Yanks said they were cutting payroll by 50% I’d be cool with that if they were putting that extra $100 million into development/scouting.

  164. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    There aren’t very many young, good outfielders on the market. Heyward is not going to be on the market unless he stinks again. If he stinks, what good is he? The one solid bat I’d look at is Billy Butler, but, he’s no outfielder.

  165. Nick in SF March 1st, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    m,

    No, there are no such quotes, the whole thing was Montero-grief residue.

    :arrow:

  166. GreenBeret7 March 1st, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Forget Montero…both of them.

  167. MTU March 1st, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    GB-

    How about my radical solution ?

    Cano to right field.

    Jeter to 2nd.

    Nunez to SS.

    ;)

  168. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    Martin’s agent was quoted as stating they would consider the Yankees budgetary retraints when asking for an extension, before those talks were tabled.

  169. Wave Your Hat March 1st, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Yes, the Yankees’ advantage is going down in theory, but in practice I don’t think it will be as grim as you’re suggesting, where the Yankees are just another team.

    No, they won’t be just another team. They won’t be the Royals, they won’t be the A’s.

    But, if they stay under the threshold, even if they have they highest payroll (and who’s to say they will, other big market teams may push up close to the threshold as well), the payroll difference between themselves and other big market teams will be less. And, the Yanks are carrying some very large contracts that are or may be past their “sell by” dates that other big market teams, such as Texas, may not have.

    All told that translates to a much smaller advantage, maybe even no advantage, when compared to other top teams.

    And really, for the Yank fan (as opposed to the Steinbrenner family) what good does the Yanks having a quasi-monopoly in the NY market do if the Yanks are unwilling to spend significantly more on their payroll than the competition?

  170. dogface March 1st, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    As much as fans hate to admit it, MLB’s success is closely tied to the success of big market teams like the Yankees

    =============================

    Probably. But if the Yankees can’t be competitive at the highest level at $190M, that can’t be blamed on a CBA.

  171. Yankee Trader March 1st, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    New Post———->

  172. yankeefeminista October 10th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    Not a strike Grrr!

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