The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Changeups!

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 05, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It happens every spring. It happened with A.J. Burnett. It happened with Phil Hughes. Now it’s happening with Michael Pineda. The new young Yankees starter is working on his changeup, and so that one pitch became the biggest topic of discussion after today’s game. Pineda guessed he threw five or six of them — including the strikeout pitch to Shane Victorino — but Larry Rothschild said the number was closer to four.

Regardless, the changeup was an effective third pitch. Pineda can still get on the side of it from time to time, creating more side-to-side movement rather than sinking action, but everyone seems to agree that he’s willing — eager even — to improve a pitch that could make the different between a middle-of-the-rotation starter and a top-of-the-rotation ace.

“I called it just like I would in a season,” Russell Martin said. “Obviously I don’t want him to get beat in certain situations with it yet because we’re still working on it, but there were some situations that dictated that it was the right pitch to call, and he’s game.”

Larry Rothschild
“I think he’ll be fearless with it. I think he will use it provided he’s comfortable with it and it’s an effective pitch for him. That’s the key to the whole thing… I think if he can get a few outs a game on it, that’s what you want. And it’s going to setup the other pitches a lot better. To put a ratio on (how often he should throw it), I’ll just stay away from that, but if he’s comfortable with it you’ll see it certain days. Maybe he’s not throwing the breaking ball for a strike, the changeup’s going to be used more. Maybe it’s a day where he’s got a real good feel for it, he uses it more. And maybe some days the other two pitches are dominant and you’re not going to see it as much.”

Joe Girardi
“You like that attitude. You want a guy that’s willing to work at something and try to get better as opposed to just saying, what I’ve got is good enough. He got two outs with it and that’s a start with his changeup.”

Russell Martin
“Not everybody can have a feel for that pitch, and he seemed to have a decent feel for it. It doesn’t look that difficult for him so I don’t see why it couldn’t be a good pitch for him… I’m not surprised because when I caught him in the pen, he had a good idea of it. And he had been working on it for a couple of weeks with Larry, or a week or so. But when something clicks and something feels god, automatically you see results. And I think the new grip he’s worked on with Larry immediately clicked with him.”

Michael Pineda
“It’s not my first time I’m practicing my changeup. I had a long time in Seattle when I’m practicing my changeup. But right now, I’m feeling more comfortable with my changeup… I’m a little bit surprised because my changeup was very good, but I’m working hard in the offseason on my changeup.”

Associated Press photo

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256 Responses to “Changeups!”

  1. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    It happens every spring.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    A fun baseball fantasy movie with Ray Milland.

  2. Rich in NJ March 5th, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    I would like to hear Martin’s take on how often he called it with Hughes in games, and if so, what happened.

  3. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    As Carig said: Pineda has hands the size of a sattelite dish, so it should help. Maybe Garcia can teach him the split finger to give hitters a 4th thing to look at.

  4. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    I just watched Pineda’s 2 innings from the Archive.

    For this early in the spring he looks real good to me.

    He threw a lot of strikes.

    He mixed in a few CU’s.

    The FB and Slider looked solid.

    Only 1 ball was hit hard.

    He seems nimble around the mound.

    Not at all a clumsy giant.

    I liked what I saw.

    :)

  5. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    “It’s not my first time I’m practicing my changeup. I had a long time in Seattle when I’m practicing my changeup. But right now, I’m feeling more comfortable with my changeup… I’m a little bit surprised because my changeup was very good, but I’m working hard in the offseason on my changeup.”

    Yeah Michael but you see the forum Cliffy decided you did not have one, that you only had two pitches, and that you needed to develop one or you were going to baseball hades.

    psst – a number of us knew you already had one, and a good one at that, but you know how Cliffy gets when he decides he’s onto something…

    :roll:

  6. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    MTU – the guy is sick, and checking my perspicacity meter, we’re going to be absolutely thrilled to have him.

    Impressive dude.

    :)

  7. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    GB-

    I have been advocating the split for Hughes and Pineda for quite a while now.

    I hope they give it a try.

    They have 2 very good mentors in Garcia and Kuroda.

  8. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Not sure about Hughes and the split. Tightening his breaking pitch and cleaning up his change-up would be fine. Unless he has big hands/long fingers, I’d be concerned about the stress it would put on Hughes arm.

  9. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Trisha-

    Considering it was his first outing I was surprised at the # and quality of strikes he threw.

    Nothing all that fat.

    This indicates to me that he has very good control.

    To be around the plate effectively this early is a very positive sign IMO.

    If he gets a 3rd look like the CU or a split he could be very deadly.

  10. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    GB-

    Hughes has very large hands.

    I’ve seen video of him showing how grips different pitches.

    The mitts are plenty big enough, and his arm action is perfect for the split IMO.

    We’ll see.

  11. blake March 5th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Great job Chad. New info!

  12. luis March 5th, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    Hi guys,

    Just Getting back from work…..I must say that i was very impressed of what i saw from Pineda…Clean mechanics, good control, nasty slider and to my surprise a very good vertical fade CU….Thank God Nunez is fine, i’m liking him every time a little more….Zoilo is making a very good impression, i think he might be ready sooner than most people think.

  13. blake March 5th, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    I hate not having Montero but Pineda has a chance to be a monster….he seems confident….willing to learn….and seems to have a good aptitude for pitching.

  14. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Luis-

    Howdy gaucho.

    Is Zoilo a lefty or righty hitter ?

    I did not get to see him.

    Is he a power guy or more of a gap type hitter ?

  15. austinmac March 5th, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    MTU,

    If anyone adds a splitter this year on the Yankees you get my full credit. Relentless in your view but not tiresome. :)

  16. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Pineda threw too many pitches, though. about 67% for strikes. Still, it was only his first ST start. By too many pitches, I meant that he had some deep counts, but, I’ll take it. He did eat up Victorino and Thome, though….both left handed.

  17. LGY March 5th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    And I think the new grip he’s worked on with Larry immediately clicked with him.”

    ——-

    Has it been reported Rothschild had Pineda change the grip on his changeup?

  18. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    Blake-

    That was another observation.

    He did not seem at all tentative out there.

  19. Yankee Trader March 5th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    Was Ryan Pope impressive today? I see where he retired 5 straight.

  20. austinmac March 5th, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    MTU, he is both. A switch hitter. His hit was a bullet up the middle from the left side.

  21. luis March 5th, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    Hi MTU!,

    He is a switch hitter, i would say right now he is a gap type of hitter, but he might have the potential to hit 15-20 hr in time

  22. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    LGY-

    Yes.

    Thanks Mac.

  23. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    Almonte would ripe for a nickname by the time he gets to NY. I go with “Zorro” for that slashing bat.

  24. Rich in NJ March 5th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    LGY

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....uch-pineda

    Pineda, acquired in a trade for Jesus Montero in January, threw 30-35 pitches in the bullpen under the supervision of pitching coach Larry Rothschild, and since today was apparently Changeup Day — Ivan Nova worked on his as well — special emphasis was put on Pineda’s off-speed pitches. “We worked on my grip a little,” said Pineda, who throws a circle change along with his fastball and slider. “Larry showed me some things today. He didn’t change my mechanics, just moved the ball down in my hand a little. It worked out pretty good.”

  25. blake March 5th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    “Has it been reported Rothschild had Pineda change the grip on his changeup?”

    I read somewhere he changed it to a circle….can’t remember where.

  26. tomingeorgia March 5th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    YT,
    Pope looked good to me, anyway.

  27. austinmac March 5th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    LGY,

    A new grip has been reported but no info on the alteration.

  28. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Thanks guys.

    I like that.

    Is he equally good from both sides ?

  29. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    Yankee Trader March 5th, 2012 at 5:40 pm
    Was Ryan Pope impressive today? I see where he retired 5 straight.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    As much as I would like to see a SCAD grad with the Yanks, he’s not much more than a AAA type pitcher.

  30. Yankee Trader March 5th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    I hate not having Montero but Pineda has a chance to be a monster….he seems confident….willing to learn….and seems to have a good aptitude for pitching.
    ——————————————
    Just about everything CompassRosy has gleaned about him as a Mariner!

  31. austinmac March 5th, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    Good find Rich on the details of the grip.

  32. luis March 5th, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    MTU,

    Don’t trust me on this, but i think he is better left handed

  33. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    I liked the action on Pineda’s slider.

    He seems to be able to throw it for a strike as well as drop it out of the zone.

  34. kd March 5th, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    maybe cone could work with him? didn’t he basically invent pitches and arm angles on the mound?

    the thing that surprised me about pineda is that he’s a pitcher, not a thrower. he’s poised and developing. he could be mussina out there one day, with more power and better stuff. or am i overly optimistic?

  35. LGY March 5th, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    Thanks everyone

  36. austinmac March 5th, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    I’ve only seen him hit from the left side. He did get a hit or two from the right side against the college guys. He is not real big. I think the descriptions of others is accurate. 15-20 HR potential. A slasher. Very quick bat and short stroke at least from the left.

  37. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    Thank you Luis.

    I was just wondering.

    How about the rest of him as an OF’er ?

    CF ? Corner guy ?

    Does he shag ‘em well ? How’s the arm ?

    thanks. I know nothing about him other than he has a really, really cool first name.

    I think he has appeared in several movies.

    Good with the sword too ?

    :)

  38. Chad Jennings March 5th, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    Rothschild said today that the new grip is: “It’s a little bit different (from a circle change) but it’s based on that… The fingers are spread a little bit more.”

  39. Yankee Trader March 5th, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    GB-

    SCAD?
    Talking about the genus of fish or the Savannah College of Art and Design? LOL.

  40. luis March 5th, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    kd March 5th, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    Poise he has…..I have to see him a bit longer before i say that he knows how to pitch….BBut very impresive nevertheless

  41. Yankee Trader March 5th, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Zoilo Almonte stats:

    http://www.baseball-reference......mont001zoi

  42. austinmac March 5th, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    It appears Pineda threw a 2-0 slider for a strike. The ability to throw a secondary pitch for a strike behind in the count is a very helpful skill.

  43. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Almonte can play all three outfield spots, but, the corners are his best spots. Chases the balls down well, solid, accurate arm. Could steal 10-15 bases if somebody works with him on reading pitchers. Abraham Almonte is the better outfielder, but, not nearly the bat.

  44. Yankee Trader March 5th, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Gotts go. Until later all.

  45. kd March 5th, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    good point luis

  46. luis March 5th, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    MTU,

    Corner outfielder, good arm a bit inconsistent, that why he hasn’t evolved faster, maybe this is his breakout season. I don’t know how is with his sword though!! :)

  47. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    Thanks Chad.

    :)

  48. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    Yankee Trader March 5th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
    GB-

    SCAD?
    Talking about the genus of fish or the Savannah College of Art and Design? LOL.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Savannah College Of art And Design, They’ve come a long way in just over 10 years after starting the sports programs from scratch. Their first baseball coach was Luis Tiant and their first basketball coach was Cazzie Russell.

  49. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    Thanks YT, and others.

    Zoilo is only 22 or so and was at AA.

    He’s not a big guy.

    Maybe he will breakout this year.

    We could use a positive surprise from one or more of our young OF’ers.

  50. blake March 5th, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    “Rothschild said today that the new grip is: “It’s a little bit different (from a circle change) but it’s based on that… The fingers are spread a little bit more.””

    The Vulcan!

  51. luis March 5th, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    kd March 5th, 2012 at 5:55 pm
    good point luis

    ====================

    To add to the point, poise is half the battle, so i guess if he is not a pitcher right now, he will be.

  52. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    Almonte is built along the same lines as Alfonso Soriano. Not the speed or power, tough.

  53. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    It’s hard to believe a guy as big as Pineda was ever an infielder.

    Yikes.

    :)

  54. kd March 5th, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    has mason williams gotten into a game yet?

    would be good for him to see how veterans treat spring training

  55. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    We could use a positive surprise from one or more of our young OF’ers.

    ==============

    MTU,

    Very good point, especially with next season conundrum

  56. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    GB-

    They listed him as around 5′ 11” and 160 or so.

    Soriano was solid muscle. Not an ounce of fat on that guy. Very strong for his size.

    Swung an incredibly heavy bat like a damn toothpick.

  57. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Kd,

    I think he played yesterday, but not sure

  58. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Luis-

    Perzactly my point.

    ;)

  59. lounge lizard March 5th, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    Scouting report from 2010 discussing Pineda’s pitching mix at the time (including the change) and the effect that his sudden ramp-up in velocity had on his overall effectiveness and prospect ranking.

    http://prospectinsider.com/vie.....be-an-ace/

    I have a little bit of a feeling after today that velocity (which is being taken for granted) may be a continuing issue. This isn’t the way he’s come out of the gate the last two STs. But maybe he’s being very smart now to save the gas for the games that count, so we’ll just have to see.

  60. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    MTU,

    here is a link with some video of Almonte against Brandon lidge

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu0hAUmrPYE

  61. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    Does anyone else think that Pineda might be part Giraffe ?

    :)

  62. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    RIP, Big Don Mincher, slugging first baseman for the Twins, Angels and others. D

  63. tomingeorgia March 5th, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    kd,
    I think Williams came in in the 7th or 8th. Fielded one ball (that I saw) and threw wide on a play at the plate. Didn’t see any at-bats.

  64. stuckey March 5th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    This is pretty good stuff.

    A Rays player impersonating Tim Kurkjian, sitting next to Tim Kurkjian.

  65. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Not sure if any giants fans saw that the great Alex Webster passed away yesterday, also.

  66. stuckey March 5th, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    sorry

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7649382

  67. tomingeorgia March 5th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    GB7,
    The sad part is that I remember almost all the names in the obits you post. Mincher could hit, for sure.

  68. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    Thank you Luis.

    He worked the count but he fell just a little short.

    Lidge can be very tough when he is right.

    Bit of an overmatch there.

  69. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    MTU March 5th, 2012 at 6:06 pm
    Does anyone else think that Pineda might be part Giraffe ?

    ============

    If he is, then we have a herd of those ( CC, Betances, Pineda ) :D

  70. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    That was Melky Mesa in center field late in the game today. Minor League exhibitions haven’t started yet.

  71. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Luis-

    For sure.

    Or the makings of a good offensive line.

    :)

  72. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    MTU,

    Overmatch by then….yes, but he held his own nevertheless….You want to see that in a player

  73. Joe from Long Island March 5th, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    don mincher…..

    i saw that about big red, yesterday. i’m not old enough to have seen him play, but i remember when well mara named him head coach, after allie sherman.

  74. LGY March 5th, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Stuckey

    Check this one out

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?d.....#038;gl=US

  75. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    tomingeorgia March 5th, 2012 at 6:11 pm
    GB7,
    The sad part is that I remember almost all the names in the obits you post. Mincher could hit, for sure.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Mincher could mash a baseball. It was his misfortune to be stuck behind Harmon Killebrew and Bob Allison in his two positions (before DH). His home run rates were pretty good…about 1 every 20 at bats. not bad for a part timer.

  76. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    Chad Jennings March 5th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
    Rothschild said today that the new grip is: “It’s a little bit different (from a circle change) but it’s based on that… The fingers are spread a little bit more.”

    keep mechanical things coming.
    good job.

  77. tomingeorgia March 5th, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    Sorry, GB7, about misindentifying Mesa today. Watching with half my wits, while guests, the termite man and the UPS guy all arrived at once. And who knows who numbers 75 to 99 are, anyway? Still going to that River Dogs/Green Jackets series in April, so maybe soon I’ll be able to put a name to a face, at least in low-A.

  78. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Joe from Long Island March 5th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
    don mincher…..

    i saw that about big red, yesterday. i’m not old enough to have seen him play, but i remember when well mara named him head coach, after allie sherman.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Joe,

    Hope all is well in the From Long Island household. Webster really had some bad teams back then. Wasn’t a bad coach…just old players. Was a hine two way player in his day. I think he’s still in the top 5 or 6 in all time rushing for the Giants.

  79. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    LGY,

    Which one of the videos we are supposed to watch??

  80. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    “It happens every spring. It happened with A.J. Burnett. It happened with Phil Hughes. Now it’s happening with Michael Pineda. The new young Yankees starter is working on his changeup, ”

    … and do either burnett or hughes have plus change ups ?

    so why do we expect pineda to get one in the time he has in just spring training?

  81. stuckey March 5th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    LGY, the Rays guy is better… the Jays guys is more of a caricature, the Rays an impression.

    But thanks.

  82. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    tomingeorgia March 5th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
    Sorry, GB7, about misindentifying Mesa today. Watching with half my wits, while guests, the termite man and the UPS guy all arrived at once. And who knows who numbers 75 to 99 are, anyway? Still going to that River Dogs/Green Jackets series in April, so maybe soon I’ll be able to put a name to a face, at least in low-A.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    afternoon, Tom.

    Warmed up venison chili tonight. Stuff never gets old.

    No big issue on the mixup. Spring games in the minors haven’t started yet and none of the rosters are out, yet. I’m anxious to see who goes where. Still hoping to get up there, but, looking bleak right now.

  83. Ys Guy March 5th, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    wow 5 “my changeup”s in about 50 words….

  84. Pat M. March 5th, 2012 at 6:26 pm

    LGY……A Ritter Sport Bar for each of the agreed upon Swisher / Wells categories and 3 for the Hughes / Garcia derby ???? Well I find it humorous that all the bench jockeying that Tin Cup supplied today ends up with LoHuders being placed into sitcom roles…….I had a few names that could have been regulars at Gary’s bar who use to torment The Cheers gang….Better leave well enough alone though……

  85. Triple Short of a Cycle March 5th, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    so why do we expect pineda to get one in the time he has in just spring training?

    ————————————————————————–

    because everything is lollipops and gumdrops in spring training

  86. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    pat m-

    i like how people were saying that the change up was not going to be a big story of the spring.

    it’s the big story because the yankees are loaded , and there’s no big story in that.

    they will cruise into the playoffs this year barring some surprise injuries to key players.

    what’s interesting is if a young player like pineda can master a pitch that has been mediocre so far in his career and then become a star pitcher in his own right. it’s interesting to see if the yankees can succeed where they failed teaching a plus change up to burnett and hughes.

    i don’t place much weight in pineda doing well against teams that haven’t seen him. he did that last year in seattle until teams started seeing him more.

  87. Villa Nova-Ya March 5th, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Because Pineda is not Hughes or AJ?

    AJ is AJ. I wouldn’t use him for a comparison to anything. And by the time he got to the Yankees, they could only “suggest,” not “require.”

    Don’t know what Hughes’ issue is. Perhaps the problem is that he was so effective 2010 early w/o the changeup and never mixed it in – that’s the catcher’s fault, no, unless he shook off the sign? And then 2011 he was just all out of it. Pretty much a lost season.

    Let’s see what happens this time around. He really is still young…

    I’d like to give this new guy the benefit of the doubt. He seems to be somewhat motivated and not just saying, yeah, I guess I need a changeup.

    It’s not fair to judge one player based on what happened with another since they are different people.

  88. Villa Nova-Ya March 5th, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    Also, by all accounts I read, AJ actually had a decent to good change up but just never felt comfortable throwing it.

    And AJ was not developed by the Yankees.

  89. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    Randy,

    To be fair, i think AJ has a pretty decent CU, he just chose not to use it very often….In Hughes case, i think he got in loved with his cutter, which was very effective until teams adjusted to it in 2010….I don’t want to say anything about last season because of hughes injury.

  90. Villa Nova-Ya March 5th, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Also, as I think about it, 2010, Hughes started out, and a lot of those games were close games early. A young pitcher is not going to throw the pitch he’s least confident in in very close games (don’t get beat on your worst pitch, right?). Many of those games ended up with the Yankees scoring lots of runs in the latter innings, but the point is the same.

  91. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    buchholz is pitching for the red sox tonight for anyone who wants to watch a plus change up.

    just checked fangraphs and see he throws it like 25% of the time.

    is it good because he throw sit a lot or is does he throw it a lot because it’s good ?

    i think pineda’s only chance to get a good change is to use it a lot.

    buchholz is another example of why i wouldn’t trade a guy like montero for a young pitcher.

    17-7 one year and injured the next.

    it happens too frequently with young pitchers.

  92. Pat M. March 5th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya………Hughes still had a real tight breaking ball in 2009 before they moved him to the bullpen rather than just shelving Wang and move him into the rotation…..But then again his success in the 8th inning was an invaluable weapon for the Yanks in 09…..However, the point is that his breaking ball has never really been the same and the change-up has has never been the same since the no hitter in Texas……By the way I wanted to thank you for your Birthday greetings…..Had a great shrimp scampi dinner on the bay being it was the first Friday of Lent……….Tin Cup, I still think Pineda will hit the 100 win mark in Yankee Pinstripes

  93. luis March 5th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    Her is an interesting article about Pineda and the FO saying that only CC and Kuroda have secured spots in the rotation, hope you guys enjoy it, i found it interesting

    http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/.....tion-39002

  94. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    “so why do we expect pineda to get one in the time he has in just spring training?”

    “It’s not my first time I’m practicing my changeup. I had a long time in Seattle when I’m practicing my changeup. But right now, I’m feeling more comfortable with my changeup… I’m a little bit surprised because my changeup was very good, but I’m working hard in the offseason on my changeup.”

    But don’t let Pineda’s statement or his effectiveness today throwing a change up influence you at all. You just keep going at it, pretending Pineda either doesn’t have a changeup or has a lousy one.

    :)

  95. Pat M. March 5th, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    Randy, how many times would you call for the change from a pitcher when it was his 3rd pitch ??? Just enough to show it, maybe 10 % ????

  96. luis March 5th, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Randy,

    I am with you about the trade….But is a done deal, there is nothing we can do about it….JJust hope that Pineda develops that elusive CU….For my part i’m rooting that he does, and you are right, as a former pitcher i can tell you that the only way to dominate a pitch is through constant repetition.

  97. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Pat M – randy didn’t catch in any professional games. I would say that would color what an answer should be – if there is indeed any correct answer. Also I believe that any professional catcher would tell you that it depends on how effective the other pitches are on any given day.

    See that, and I never even played in the minors!

  98. LGY March 5th, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    LGY, the Rays guy is better… the Jays guys is more of a caricature, the Rays an impression.

    But thanks.

    ———-

    Jays? I linked one from some Red Sox guys…

  99. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    luis – Pineda already has the changeup. Sad that a few people continue to blow right past the reality because randy has them convinced of the opposite.

    I see you as an intelligent guy. And no matter where you fall in this I will continue to see you as an intelligent guy. But please just read what Pineda himself said. No need to comment on it. I just want you to read it and let it ruminate.

    “It’s not my first time I’m practicing my changeup. I had a long time in Seattle when I’m practicing my changeup. But right now, I’m feeling more comfortable with my changeup… I’m a little bit surprised because my changeup was very good, but I’m working hard in the offseason on my changeup.”

    That should be enough for anyone’s consumption.

  100. LGY March 5th, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    I think the problem is that I linked it from my phone.

    Try this one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded

  101. mick March 5th, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    After all this, Pineda has a changeup?
    Unbelievable!

  102. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    mick, seriously, I feel like I’ve entered the stupid zone when I see people continue to question whether he even has a changeup!

    Unbelievable.

  103. mick March 5th, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    as a former pitcher i can tell you that the only way to dominate a pitch is through constant repetition.
    ===============Are you Luis Tiant?

  104. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    “But don’t let Pineda’s statement or his effectiveness today throwing a change up influence you at all. You just keep going at it, pretending Pineda either doesn’t have a changeup or has a lousy one.”

    trisha-

    he does have a mediocre one.

    that why they are trying to teach him a good one.

    think about that a little.

    they wouldn’t be trying to teach him a good one if he had a good one :)

  105. mick March 5th, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    randy just trying to stir things up , it’s been a long winter…

  106. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    I don’t know if I agree with that. They might be showing him a better way to throw it. I believe a pitcher who says he has practiced it for a long time and has had a very good one over a lohud poster any day of the week! If you don’t, then think what way you will.

    It’s all good.

    randy started off saying he didn’t even have one and switched at some point to saying he had a mediocre one.

    :roll:

    And remember that different pitching coaches have different methodologies. Rothschild changed things with both AJ and Joba, neither of whom were chopped liver on the mound. I think you saw that Joba was extremely effective.

  107. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Don’t know if Rosenthal just blowing smoke, but thinks the Diamondbacks may be in the market to move an outfieldder but, he threw out two names because of the money. It wasn’t including Upton or Parra. It was Kubel and Chris Young. Young wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see him roaming the outfield in Pinstripes.

  108. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    “See that, and I never even played in the minors!”

    did you ever play any sport?

  109. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Joba was extremely effective even before Rothschild worked with him. And if Joba and AJ needed changing, why didn’t it happen with the previous pitching coachesw then. The answer is they have their own way of doing things.

  110. luis March 5th, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    You give me to much credit, but thank you ;)….What i saw today was amazing!!, don’t get me wrong…I am as excited as you can possibly believe!…But that doesn’t change the fact that i think that the premises that the FO used for this trade are flawed, but that’s water under the bridge…By the way, one of the posts that helped me rationalized this was one of yours…I do understand the logic behind the trade, but as everything in life, there are two sides of the coin, usually with good arguments on both ends, i hope this helps you to understand my position a little bit better :)

  111. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    “did you ever play any sport?”

    I don’t know if girl’s softball counts for much. I never played any sport in college. But I did coach the boys summer babe ruth league baseball and they won the town championship.

    So I guess you can safely say I never really played any team sport in a serious sense. But I do have eyes and ears and I know how to watch and read.

  112. LGY March 5th, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    Don’t know if Rosenthal just blowing smoke, but thinks the Diamondbacks may be in the market to move an outfieldder but, he threw out two names because of the money. It wasn’t including Upton or Parra. It was Kubel and Chris Young. Young wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see him roaming the outfield in Pinstripes.

    ———

    Which OF is Young replacing?

  113. luis March 5th, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    mick March 5th, 2012 at 7:10 pm
    as a former pitcher i can tell you that the only way to dominate a pitch is through constant repetition.
    ===============Are you Luis Tiant?

    —————————————

    LMAO!!! I wish!! ;)

  114. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    “Rothschild changed things with both AJ and Joba, neither of whom were chopped liver on the mound.”

    rothschild had so much effect that they paid the pirates to take burnett and rothschild was so effective with joba that joba needed surgery.

    nice try trisha, but pretty lame.

  115. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    GB-

    Here’s a link to Young’s stats.

    http://www.baseball-reference......ch04.shtml

    They do not look very good.

    K’s a lot. Low BA and OBP.

    Seems to have a lot of pop and is a good defender.

    You like him ?

  116. MTU March 5th, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    New thread —–>

  117. luis March 5th, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    LGY March 5th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
    Don’t know if Rosenthal just blowing smoke, but thinks the Diamondbacks may be in the market to move an outfieldder but, he threw out two names because of the money. It wasn’t including Upton or Parra. It was Kubel and Chris Young. Young wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see him roaming the outfield in Pinstripes.

    ———

    Which OF is Young replacing?

    =========

    Swisher in 2013?

  118. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    luis, I don’t question your ability for objectivity for a minute. And that’s the truth. Despite the rumors randy put out there, I was absolutely devastated by the trade. I never saw it coming, and I never thought it would hapen.

    I, like MTU, have an ability to adjust quickly to life’s circumstances. And when I did the math(poor choice of words since I’ve been exposed as a math dummy, but you know what I mean) it did make sense under the organizational circumstances. At least it did to me. I wouldn’t have pushed for it, and I was content with going with our pitching staff, but I’d be lying to say I didn’t understand the broader perspective involved. Because I do. I didn’t understand why the Yankees brought back Javy Vaszquez but I figured they knew what they were doing. I adjusted to that also. But this one I actually understand and therefore certainly support. To get great, you have to give great.

    Some people believed offense was where we needed help. I do think realistically that pitching is where we needed help. AJ and Hughes were not sure bets – even though I personally would have gone with both – and we didn’t know about Nova’s condition for sure. That left CC.

    I understand the trade.

    And then my motto is always onward and upward.

    :)

  119. Crawdaddy March 5th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    “so why do we expect pineda to get one in the time he has in just spring training?”

    Because not all pitchers are the same.

    By the way Sherlock, Buchholz 2nd best pitch has always been a CU since he was drafted as a prospect which is why he throws it so much.

  120. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    “rothschild had so much effect that they paid the pirates to take burnett and rothschild was so effective with joba that joba needed surgery.”

    Well then randy, I guess we can know for sure that Rothschild has no business messing with Pineda’s changeup, especially since he feels it is quite good already.

    Checkmate buddy.

  121. Crawdaddy March 5th, 2012 at 7:26 pm

    “rothschild had so much effect that they paid the pirates to take burnett and rothschild was so effective with joba that joba needed surgery.”

    This is a perfect example why others shouldn’t take you seriously here. So Joba gets hurt five months after working with Rothschild and it’s his fault Joba had TJS.

  122. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 5th, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Talk to you later, rational posters.

    It’s lent in my household and Monday night is church night.

  123. mick March 5th, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    randy’s just killing time, playing with us when bored…

  124. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    “I don’t know if girl’s softball counts for much”

    women’s softball is a serious sport, but it seems like you’re saying you’re a watcher, an observer.

    i like music but play no instruments and have no musical talent whatsoever.

    i would never say i understood music when i had never done it and had only listened to it or read about it.

    i’m always puzzled by people who think they understand something simply because they read about it.

  125. luis March 5th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    Bye Trish, take care

  126. Crawdaddy March 5th, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    “randy’s just killing time, playing with us when bored…”

    For his sake, I hope he’s just playing with us because many of his comments counters him being a former ballplayer.

  127. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    “This is a perfect example why others shouldn’t take you seriously here. So Joba gets hurt five months after working with Rothschild and it’s his fault Joba had TJS.”

    crawdaddy-

    your compatriot trisha was trying to point out the good work rothchild has done with burnett and joba.

    do you want to take her position that rothschild was sucessful with burnett and joba?

  128. GreenBeret7 March 5th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    MTU March 5th, 2012 at 7:19 pm
    GB-

    Here’s a link to Young’s stats.

    http://www.baseball-reference……ch04.shtml

    They do not look very good.

    K’s a lot. Low BA and OBP.

    Seems to have a lot of pop and is a good defender.

    You like him ?

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Yes, I do. His average is a little low and the strikeouts are problematic, but, he’s got power, speed and a damned fine outfielder. He and Granderson could cover half the world with their speed. Making $7 mil this year, $8.5 mil next year and about $11 mil in 2014.

  129. randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    the best impact i can think of on a player by a coach has been on granderson by long.

    rothschild?

    the jury’s still out on him.

  130. luis March 5th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    randy l. March 5th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
    the best impact i can think of on a player by a coach has been on granderson by long.

    rothschild?

    the jury’s still out on him.

    =====================

    To be fair, what i saw from Pineda’s CU today is very encouraging, the best type of CU IMO is the one that has vertical fade, and that’s what i saw from him today. Because if you miss you miss in the dirt. The dowside of the lateral fade CU is that it can end up in the wheelhouse of a batter with all the risks that it implies

  131. Crawdaddy March 5th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    “the jury’s still out on him.”

    One day you’re giving Rothschild compliments, the next day you’re saying the jury is still out on him. We know it’s a pattern of yours to change your position to fit your agenda, but dont’ be so obvious about it.

  132. Crawdaddy March 5th, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    “do you want to take her position that rothschild was sucessful with burnett and joba?”

    Actually, I think Joba was pitching very well under Rothschild till he got hurt and to blame him for Joba having TJS is really beneath you. As far as Burnett, there’s no mystery there.

  133. tomingeorgia March 5th, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    randy,
    I can recall a story you told months ago, about you teaching a major league pitcher a new pitch within fifteen minutes. In fact, you said, it was so good that he couldn’t control it, to his comfort level, so he never threw it again, and was out of baseball shortly thereafter. Should have listened to you, I guess.

    Yet a young pitcher with an amazing array of stuff can’t learn a change-up. Step on it again.

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