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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Hughes shows renewed arm strength in spring debut

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 06, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Surprising to see Phil Hughes last only an inning and a third today — he missed some spots, which hurt him — but he was consistently hitting 93 mph, a strong early indication that his arm strength is back. And really, that’s as important as anything at this point.

“It was good to see,” pitching coach Larry Rothschild said. “He just ran out of pitches because we’re going to be a little bit careful with him, but the arm strength is there. The location was not good, but that should get better with mound time… I think if the arm strength is there, you know what he’s going to bring to the table. Now it’s a question of just getting out there enough to locate pitches and mix the other pitches in as he sees fit.”

Hughes was similarly satisfied, and said he’s trusting the coaches to look at more than results at this point. Yes, he would have liked to have gotten through two innings, and yes, he would have liked to have kept those runners off base. But physically, today was a positive step.

“I felt good, actually,” Hughes said. “You never want to see runs scored and stuff like that, but from a physical standpoint I felt pretty good for the first time out. I was having a little trouble keeping the ball down, but I was probably a little anxious.”

Before Hughes found out he’d reached 93 mph pretty steadily, he was asked what he’d like his velocity to be.

“100 would be nice,” he said. “To be successful, 92, 93 would be nice. Obviously the first time in spring I’m not expecting 100 percent, in-season velocity. Just to have some life on the fastball, see some swings and misses, some late foul balls maybe, would be nice. That would be a good thing for me right now.”

Francisco Cervelli said Hughes’ ball was “jumping.” Hughes said it was coming out of his hand good, which is pretty much the opposite of what he was saying a year ago.

“I’m coming out trying to throw as well as I can,” Hughes said. “If that’s competing, then sure, I think about it. I’m competing against the (other) team. I’m competing against guys trying to make this team. So that’s spring training. I’ve done it before. It’s one of those things that’s always there and sometimes it’s a little more difficult when you’re not completely 100 percent. Personally, I always feel like I’m competing, whether I am or not. You never want to pitch poorly and give up runs in spring training, it doesn’t feel good. You want to go home and feel happy about yourself.”

Associated Press photo

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102 Responses to “Hughes shows renewed arm strength in spring debut”

  1. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    Sounds positive.

    Something to build on.

    :)

  2. Nick in SF March 6th, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    “Hughes in deep trouble as haters rejoice” was the alternate title for this post, but Chad chose to go with the optimistic take.

  3. MG March 6th, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    I was at the game today but only stayed 4 innings (spring training baseball is really boring when it’s 2 hours to play those). Here are some observations:
    -CC has lost a ton of weight since last year and did a significant amount of running in the outfield after the game
    -There were no radar guns but it seemed like Hughes was throwing at least as hard as CC if not a little harder. I had the chance to stand within 10? of the catcher in the bullpen while he was warming up and the glove was really popping when he threw the fastball.
    -I don’t know what happened to him in his 2nd inning but he was getting 2 strikes on most of the hitters and then throwing pitches that were hit.
    -McKechnie Field isn’t the best place to watch baseball, I was down the left field line in the second row and basically couldn’t pick up a batted ball off the bat (and neither could anyone else), it may have been the sun position

  4. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    The Yankees have paid for Hughes experience with a lot of losses over the past five years

    Shouldn’t they try to get some wins out of him now that they have given him the experience at a substantial win cost to them?

  5. MG March 6th, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    I just read Chad’s post about Hughes throwing 93, that is consistent with what I saw while he was warming up in the bullpen as the glove was really popping.

  6. LGY March 6th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    -I don’t know what happened to him in his 2nd inning but he was getting 2 strikes on most of the hitters and then throwing pitches that were hit.

    ——

    So he’s in midseason form? :evil:

  7. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    The Yankees have paid for Hughes experience with a lot of losses over the past five years

    Untrue.

  8. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Its infact, blatantly untrue, since when Hughes was playing for the yankees he is a .600 winning percentage pitcher. He was not slated to start in the rotation in 2007 or 2009. In 2010 he was a great success for the team. In 2011 they had Garcia and Colon backing him up, and both of those guys did very well.

    This new paying in losses meme is not going to benefit you, Randy.

  9. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    They were paying a heckuva lot for losses with Pavano, Wright, Burnett, Clemens, Igawa, Javier Vazquez.

  10. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    YF-

    In answer to an earlier question you posed.

    API programs can be specifically targeted for Pitchers.

    They are more than just general conditioning programs.

    Go to their website to see the details.

    I was happy when I heard Hughes was going again this OS.

  11. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    It would be really weird if Hughes ended up throwing harder than Pineda. (that’s sarcasm, btw)

  12. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Luis-

    I have frequently made the point that Hughes like to tinker with his pitches.

    In his case perhaps a bit too much.

    To some extent I would think all young guys experiment a bit though.

    At this point I think Hughes needs to simplify things and go with what works for him.

    Never liked the cutter he developed. I thought it affected his ability to throw some of his other stuff.

    I’d like to see him go FB, curve, and either change or split.

    I wish he would lose that spike curveball grip and just throw a conventional curve with more velo.

    He needs 3 different looks just like Pineda does.

    Just my 2 cents.

  13. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    MTU

    I think Hughes has tinkered because he knew his stuff wasn’t there.

  14. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Here’s video of Hughes explaining some of his various pitching grips for those interested:

    http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde.....nkees.html

  15. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    Rich-

    I don’t think so.

    I have always thought that Phil was a little too scholastic about his Pitching.

    Maybe a little too curious.

    His biggest problem has been incorrect or inconsistent conditioning which resulted in injuries.

    And some bad luck too.

    To some extent they are related IMO.

    Whatever theory you espouse he needs to pull it together this season.

    The clock is running out for him as a yankee SP.

    I’m hoping it all comes together for him this season.

    A different result would be a frickin’ waste.

  16. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    I think Hughes has tinkered because he knew his stuff wasn’t there.

    That doesnt make sense because he tinkered with his curve when he had one that was rated as the best in the system when it was 2-7.

  17. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    “That doesnt make sense because he tinkered with his curve when he had one that was rated as the best in the system when it was 2-7.”

    But how long has that been as a starter? Four years? Since then as a starter, he has often had to compensate for an inability to maintain his velo, a diminished break on his curve (and not as hard), and trouble getting LH hitters out. I’d tinker too in that situation.

  18. luis March 6th, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    yankeefeminista March 6th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
    luis, but is the tinkering Hughes’ idea or someone else’s? See, AJ. Again, we just don’t know, do we?

    +++++++++++++++

    YF,

    I did answer on the game thread, but since it was my third try i didn’t like how it came out, so i’m going to give it another try, would love to know what you think about it.

    I think both Hughes and the team have something to do with the tinkering, i’ll tell you why:

    1)On one hand you have Hughes who after the harmstring injury wasn’t the same (it had a lot to do with not projecting his left leg far enough IMO). As a result his stuff lacked movement, bite and life, so he got hit hard and lost faith in his stuff, so he starts tinkering with it and adds another pitch to complement his FB (the cutter), because the curveball doesn’t work as well (too loopy…not sure if it was a result of using the knuckle curve instead of the power CB he used previously due to his hesitation to push forward and finish the pitch)and probably lost the feel for the CU.

    2) On the other, you have an organization that has a “win now” mentality, so they start suggesting or ordering him to use different grips in an effort to help him regain his pre-injury stuff, because they need him to perform, adding more pressure to the one that i think he already is putting on himself.

    This combination IMO is the one responsible for Hughes not fullfilling his promise so far.

    The most important thing in a pitcher is his poise, the believe that he can actually get people out that comes from trusting the stuff he has, and that trust comes from constant practice and repetition of your pitches and mechanics. If you keep changing grips is imposible to master a particular pitch, so a pitcher can’t have confidence in it and everything goes down from it.

  19. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    Phil Hughes.

    Get to know Mr. Splitty.

    Talk to Freddy and Hiroki. Buy them Dinner.

    Forget that circle change.

    You don’t seem to have a good feel for it.

    You have the perfect arm action for the splitter.

    You’ll find it a lot easier to learn.

    Trust me. It will help you.

    :)

  20. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 5:55 pm

    But how long has that been as a starter? Four years? Since then as a starter, he has often had to compensate for an inability to maintain his velo, a diminished break on his curve (and not as hard), and trouble getting LH hitters out. I’d tinker too in that situation.

    He has run through like 3 change up grips since he came up with an average one in 2007. Changed his curve twice. Brought back his slider once. Developed a cutter in 1 offseason. Then changed the grip on the cutter the season after.

    Dudes a tinkerer, has nothing to do with struggling or not.

  21. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    MTU,

    Agree 100%. Split finger would be perfect for him, he wants to be a power pitcher. He should act like it. Pound them with fastballs and a nasty split. Get a power curve to go with it.

  22. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    “Dudes a tinkerer, has nothing to do with struggling or not.”

    Do we really know that until he has sustained ML success?

  23. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    Do we really know that until he has sustained ML success?

    I’ll take the evidence of him completely ditching the slider, picking up a world class curve, ditching that, and then ditching his change from 2007 to 2008 as evidence enough.

    Tinkering with a curve that you dominated the minors with? Why do that?

  24. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    JF-

    Wouldn’t a really good PC have told, or at least have encouraged, Hughes to simplify things knowing his nature ?

    Makes ya’ wonder.

    Maybe Rothschild is doing that.

    KISS method. Stick to what is working. Refine what is working. Don’t keep re-inventing the wheel.

    It only sets him back.

  25. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:01 pm

    MTU March 6th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Very good points, i would add that a pitcher is always looking to add something different to his repertoire in order to keep the batters off balance, but practicing and developing your pitches until they become a second nature is paramount, without it there is no trust and poise, and believe the batters will notice.

  26. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    “I’ll take the evidence of him completely ditching the slider, picking up a world class curve, ditching that, and then ditching his change from 2007 to 2008 as evidence enough.”

    I thought ditching the slider for a curve was a Yankee (Contreras) directive early on with all their pitching prospects?

    If he could find that world class curve, he’d likely use it. He basically acknowledged that last season.

    I think Hughes had had 3 issues: 1) leg injuries in 2007 that may have caused him to be hesitant to push off on his curve the way he once did; 2) those injuries, taken together with his 2008 rib injury, exacerbated by the Yankees putting him in the pen, prevented him from building up the arm strength to max out his innate ability; and 3) a little lax about conditioning.

  27. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    JF-

    I don’t like the spike curve for Hughes.

    I don’t think that grip allows him to get the velo with it.

    He gets addition spin but not velo.

    AJ was one of the few guys I can think of who threw a spike curve with velo.

    It’s kinda unusual in my mind.

    Conventional grip might be better.

    I can’t stand the “cookie cutter” approach to teaching pitching.

    Each young guy is an individual with differing strengths and weaknesses, and differing abilities and aptitudes.

    I’d like the PC to work with that instead of maybe trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

    Hughes is a natural for the split IMO.

    My apologies for being a broken record about it but I feel strongly about it for him.

  28. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    No argument there Rich. And I know the Yankees forced him to pocket the slider, but the speed at which he mastered a curve showed his aptitude in quickly picking up new grips. Then he spends a few weeks with Mike Mussina and changes it, and then takes an average change up and scraps it for a vulcan grip over 1 offseason. Takes a decent cutter that he just needs to work on location with and changes the grip.

    I wish he’d just get back the 2-7 79-81 curve, if he is going to be adamant about staying with it.

  29. Bo knows March 6th, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Luis

    Agreed on the Hamstring affecting his stride. The other major factor is too much pumping iron. The stupid Clemens torture workouts. That’s probably where he broke the rib that blew away most of a season. Pitchers who need loose muscles pump iron – bloody oxymoron. The other thing about successful pitching is varied speeds, add some subtract some.

  30. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Hughes is a natural for the split IMO.

    My apologies for being a broken record about it but I feel strongly about it for him.

    When Hughes moving to a slider or split were brought up a few seasons ago, the big out cry was about it potentially leading to injury. As quaint as that sounds when you’re expecting 5 good years of control on Hughes and a life long Yankee starter, it sounds pretty ridiculous now that Hughes is 2 seasons away from free agency and no defined role.
    I’d rather get 2 really good years out of him and then roll the dice in FA with a split than continue trying to save his arm for a future that will never come.

  31. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    JF-

    The idea that the splitter is more stressful on the arm is a myth IMO.

    There are professional PC’s out there who have stated as much.

    I don’t buy it. Especially when the hands are large enough and the arm action are so in tune with what is required.

  32. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    “I wish he’d just get back the 2-7 79-81 curve, if he is going to be adamant about staying with it.”

    Yup, and I’d like to see him pound his FB down in the zone the way he did when I saw him pitch in Trenton.

  33. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    JF-

    For example :

    Q: I have heard a lot of wive’s tales that this pitch is bad on the arm. Haven’t seen anything scientific though.

    Hopefully someone will post a study of some kind.

    Steven Ellis

    Answer:

    I decided to take this pitching question to Coach Bill Thurston, head baseball coach at Amherst College and a pitching consultant for ASMI, a baseball pitching biomechanics research facility in Birmingham, Ala.

    …the splitter is no more or less dangerous a baseball pitch than the curveball or slider. ”

    ;)

  34. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    “Dudes a tinkerer, has nothing to do with struggling or not.”

    i’d say that’s a distinct possibility.

    if that’s the case, he should have stayed in the minors longer learning how to tinker because he has a hard time staying locked in.

    the bottom line is how long do the yankees let him keep fooling around with different things?

    how many losses do they let him get i the name of experience that some other team will likely benefit from ?

    there’s a flaw in this whole grow your own thing and starting them young when they don’t start winning significantly in the last two-three years of team control.

    hughes unless he has a good year this year , will be a colossal flop for the yankees for his career so far.

  35. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    So there you go, Hughes get on this :)

  36. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Bo knows March 6th, 2012 at 6:09 pm
    Luis

    Agreed on the Hamstring affecting his stride. The other major factor is too much pumping iron. The stupid Clemens torture workouts. That’s probably where he broke the rib that blew away most of a season. Pitchers who need loose muscles pump iron – bloody oxymoron. The other thing about successful pitching is varied speeds, add some subtract some.

    ====================================

    Bo,

    Very good points, especially the variation of speeds….keeps the batters from timing you correctly.

  37. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Pitches are always going into and out of vogue.

    A lot of times w/o real scientific study as to their effects on Pitcher’s arms.

    In a lot of ways it reminds me of Car designs.

    More Art than Science. Conventional wisdom can sometimes be BS.

  38. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    how many losses do they let him get i the name of experience that some other team will likely benefit from ?

    there’s a flaw in this whole grow your own thing and starting them young when they don’t start winning significantly in the last two-three years of team control.

    Combining your own memes now?

  39. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    JF-

    I have tried my best but the Yankees refuse to hire me.

    :)

  40. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    I don’t know what effect the split will have to the arm…but if you throw it with the same arm angle as the FB it shouldn’t be dangerous….The slider, well….that’s another story.

  41. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    Or Mike Marshall.

    Or Rick Peterson.

    Too damn unconventional. Too much Science.

    :(

  42. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    Luis-

    It will cause a severe dislocation of the framis which supports the conventional bone.

    It will not hurt the arm though.

    :)

  43. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    “I decided to take this pitching question to Coach Bill Thurston, head baseball coach at Amherst College and a pitching consultant for ASMI, a baseball pitching biomechanics research facility in Birmingham, Ala.”

    mtu-

    this dude was at least 10-15 years older than me when i was not catching his two star pitchers ,john cerutti and rich thompson( who both went to mlb careers) on the umass summer baseball team .

    crawdaddy won’t pay any attention to this guy. he’s old . real old. way older than me.

    got anyone younger that people might listen to more?

  44. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:28 pm
    Luis-

    It will cause a severe dislocation of the framis which supports the conventional bone.

    It will not hurt the arm though.

    =======================

    LOL what kind of medical school did ytou attend?!! :D

  45. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:32 pm

    MTU,
    You forgot the clevis sinew and the travistan grid.

  46. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:32 pm
    MTU,
    You forgot the clevis sinew and the travistan grid.

    ——————————–

    Oh no!! another one! I not going to your clinic!! :)

  47. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:34 pm

    Randy-

    I’m old too.

    I therefore cited an old source.

    Sorry. Best I’ve got for now.

    I would love to hear what Dr. Andrews had to say, or even Mike Marshall.

    Not quite sure how to get them to address that question ?

    Let me know if you think of a way.

    :)

  48. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    But luis, I’m cheap.

  49. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    “Or Rick Peterson.”

    mtu-

    i was not his roommate on one team for one winter and on his team for two winters.

    i never caught him, and i never talked pitching with him.

    i know absolutely nothing about rick peterson.

    it’s not true he tweaked my throwing motion to save my shoulder from having too much strain while i was throwing BP.

    i could tell you about what made ricky an amazing pitching coach( it ad nothing to do with throwing), but since i never knew him i can’t.

    i do not admit to just plain showing off now :)

    oh yeah, we didn’t call him ricky either or pedro.

  50. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    Bo Knows,

    I was thinking about the pumping iron thing…..It derailed Hughes career… to much time injured, not working to master your trade…It certainly hurt him.

  51. Bo knows March 6th, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    I’d like to find one acolyte of Dr Marshall somewhere. Anyone? Anyone? Throwing a screwball maybe? He sounds so good. How the hell does he make a living?

  52. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    “Combining your own memes now?”

    maybe

    let me check what ” memes” are .

    i’ll get back to you on that.

  53. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:35 pm
    But luis, I’m cheap.

    ===============

    :D ” Lo barato sale caro”….look it up!!

  54. Tom in N.J. March 6th, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    Hughes needs to grow Mike Marshall’s facial hair:

    http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/.....1323335665

  55. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    luis, but we all know we can’t develop pitchers, so what’s the harm?

  56. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    Luis-

    I went to the school of hard knocks to learn about Medicine.

    Graduated Summa Cumma Booma.

    A high honor.

    :)

    Tom-

    sorry. I forgot about those while I was looking up the others in my Rube Goldberg dictionary of
    defunct and useless ideas.

  57. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:47 pm

    randy-

    I think I got the drift.

    ;)

  58. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    Bo-

    He has a website devoted to Pitching. just google Mike marshall and watch some of his videos.

    His ideas are unconventional.

    He is a consultant as well.

    Hope that helps.

  59. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:45 pm
    luis, but we all know we can’t develop pitchers, so what’s the harm?

    =========================

    On that, i think the jury is still out, we have quite a few arms that have come from the farm ( Drob,Joba, Nova). I do think they messed up with the first wave though, they either rushed them or implanted stupid rules that in the end did more harm than good. But i think they learned their lesson…I would like the kid to be challenge a little bit more though.

  60. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    Kids not kid sorry

  61. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    luis,
    Doesn’t matter. Send them to me, I’ll fix them up.

  62. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    randy-

    Why don’t you help us out and get Neil Allen back with the Yankees.

    He’ll listen to you.

    We could use him.

    :)

  63. Bo knows March 6th, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    Yep, I know about Marshall and his site. The guy was a hell of a pitcher and never injured Known for his screwball. Then got a degree etc. Should have long since been a pitching guru. The thing is I’ve never heard of anyone with any degree of success from his program Something does not compute.

  64. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/healt.....-hobgoblin

    Interesting article on npr about the human brain being wired to get off on predicting and being correct. Randy nothing more than a drug addict seeking his next fix?

  65. luis March 6th, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 6:53 pm
    luis,
    Doesn’t matter. Send them to me, I’ll fix them up.

    =====================

    Maybe you could design a “bootcamp therapy”

  66. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    The thing is I’ve never heard of anyone with any degree of success from his program Something does not compute.

    Not a lot of famous dudes go to his school and teams are predisposed against his pitching mechanics.

  67. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    Bo-

    I think he works with kids these days.

    teaching them how to prevent injury when they throw.

    That is certainly worthwhile.

    It probably takes up a lot of his time.

    He’s not in the good ole’ boys network either so that doesn’t help.

    He’s an Iconoclast. they are never popular.

    ;)

  68. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    I should probably say no famous dudes go to his school. Its hard to be a huge success when you have like 6 students, the odds of any of them being a major league pitcher is not good :)

  69. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    luis-

    Tom would just put ‘em on the porch of his bed and breakfast and get ‘em drunk with Southern comfort.

    Don’t believe a word he says.

    He’s an entrepeneur.

    ;)

  70. luis March 6th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    I think i watched a tv program about his theory, not being trusted by the powers was one of the comments made in it

  71. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    mtu-

    i’ll tell you what ricky didn’t tell me because i never knew him.

    he didn’t tell me that you have to create a structured way for a player or pitcher to work towards a goal by recording the results along the way and the steps taken each day to reach goals set forth by him and the player.

    for example ricky would sit down with pineda and say something like where do you want to be in five years. pineda might say and ace.

    ricky would ask him what he needs to work on to be an ace. pineda would say conditioning, eating well, developing a change up and maybe a two seam fastball. he might include holding runners on better.

    all these goals would be put in a big notebook . all the steps needed to be taken would be put in the notebook. the long term goals would be broken down into what had to be done each day to reach the goals.

    when each days work was done, it would be checked off in the notebook.

    long range goals are set, and then the tasks necessary to reach the goals are broken down into each days activities and then when the work is done each day it’s checked off.

    if pineda followed a program like this he would not go through the tortuous path that hughes has taken where his goals of what he’s trying to accomplish are all over the charts.

    pineda would have goals and a plan to reach them.

    and a recording of doing the work in the plan.

    and a journal of the results.

    that’s about it.

  72. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    luis-

    he is not down-to-earth like me.

    :)

  73. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    MTU,
    How did you know about the SC treatment? I designed it when I found that twelve-ounce curls were too much for some of these guys.

  74. luis March 6th, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    MTU March 6th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
    luis-

    Tom would just put ‘em on the porch of his bed and breakfast and get ‘em drunk with Southern comfort.

    Don’t believe a word he says.

    He’s an entrepeneur.

    =============================

    Who knows? maybe he asks for GB’s assistance, especially for those delicious treats like c-rations!! :D

  75. luis March 6th, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Oh!! i get it, you are competitors!! ;)

  76. luis March 6th, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 7:02 pm
    MTU,
    How did you know about the SC treatment? I designed it when I found that twelve-ounce curls were too much for some of these guys.

    ============================

    If that’s the treatment i’m all in!!

  77. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    if pineda followed a program like this he would not go through the tortuous path that hughes has taken where his goals of what he’s trying to accomplish are all over the charts.

    Oh yea, thats true, thats why John Maine, Aaron Heilman, Oliver Perez, and Mike Pelfrey were so good under Peterson.

  78. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Randy-

    I believe in Science.

    I love it. Almost as much as Nature.

    It has given more to Mankind in terms of useful knowledge and truth than any system that preceded it.

    Wherever Science can be applied knowledge results, and knowledge is power.

    And Power will help us keep stomping the sux, and others.

    So, in short, thank you for peterson’s scientific approach to Pitching.

    I like it.

    :)

  79. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    Tom-

    Lucky guess.

    ;)

  80. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    “Why don’t you help us out and get Neil Allen back with the Yankees.

    He’ll listen to you.”

    mtu-

    how can i get someone to listen to me that i don’t know?

    plus why would he want to work for someone who fired him when he’s now working for a team that knows what it’s doing ?

  81. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    MTU,
    Irish coffee in the morning, too. I rejected GB7′s offer of cold pizza.

  82. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Randy-

    As a favor to you.

    We need someone who is good at teaching sinkers to young Pitchers.

    Ask him to come home.

    He’ll do it for you.

    ;)

  83. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 7:12 pm

    “Oh yea, thats true, thats why John Maine, Aaron Heilman, Oliver Perez, and Mike Pelfrey were so good under Peterson.”

    maybe they chucked their notebooks in the dumpster the way frank thomas did when ricky sold his approach to the white sox before he got famous as the best pitching coach in the game .

  84. Bret The Hitman March 6th, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    Tinker. Don’t tinker. Find your old stuff. Learn new stuff.

    Hughes doesn’t have an out pitch. And that’s the reason why he’ll likely bust. I have no faith in Phil Hughes and I’m not going to sit around here pleading with him to do something, anything to be the type of pitcher he was made out to be. I want a pitcher who takes the mound and I think “Don’t change a thing.”

  85. luis March 6th, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    I don’t know who this Peterson character is…..But anything that has a logical structure, with clear goals and activities to reach those goals i’m all for it.

  86. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Tom-

    That is almost as good as my breakfast of champions.

    A close 2nd.

    Never trust GB. Ever.

    Look what he did to Randy with Wratchett.

    He’ll kill you with Ann Margret stories and steal your Pizza blaming it on poor defenseless Killer.

    That should tell you all you need to know.

    Beware.

    ;)

  87. luis March 6th, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    Bret The Hitman March 6th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
    Tinker. Don’t tinker. Find your old stuff. Learn new stuff.

    Hughes doesn’t have an out pitch. And that’s the reason why he’ll likely bust. I have no faith in Phil Hughes and I’m not going to sit around here pleading with him to do something, anything to be the type of pitcher he was made out to be. I want a pitcher who takes the mound and I think “Don’t change a thing.”

    ++++++

    Bret,

    Who is going to pay for that?, because those kind of pitchers are basically all elite pitchers

  88. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    Tom-

    And if that wasn’t bad enough.

    He’ll overwhelm you with bad puns.

    :(

  89. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    “I don’t know who this Peterson character is”

    luis-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Peterson

  90. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    But anything that has a logical structure, with clear goals and activities to reach those goals i’m all for it.

    I don’t want to make it seem like I’m against structure, but there is no evidence that the Yankees are not structured or that Pineda/Hughes will faill because they are not on a Rick Peterson approach.

    Peterson famously said he could fix Victor Zambrano and that Kazmir was years away. Then the Mets traded for Zambrano and he was out of the majors lickity split, while Kazmir becoming an all-star. He failed to connect with heath bell as well.

    There’s no surefire successful approach for pitching. And of course Dave Duncan & Leo Mazzone could also hold the title of ‘best pitching coach in the game’. Don’t think Peterson is unanimous.

  91. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    MTU,
    I like cold pizza and Ann Margret, but these are expensive athletes we’re training. Grits, French toast, bacon and sausage are on the training table, and they’re on their own as far as recreation is concerned.

  92. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    “Ask him to come home.

    He’ll do it for you.”

    mtu-

    he won’t come as long as cashman is there.

    help me get rid of cashman , and then i’d try my best

    of course he doesn’t know me so he’d be wondering who the hell this randy l. character is

  93. BIG AL March 6th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Question, how many top power pitchers threw basically only 2 pitches?

  94. GreenBeret7 March 6th, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Marshall has a PHD in biomechanics and Kinesiology from Michigan State. He was a professor there for years and now runs a clinic for pitchers on how to avoid injuries. He has refused to be a pitching coach because as he puts it, “I got tired of appeasing the stupid” referring to baseball front offices.

    There are too many sites and articles to post, but here’s one.

    http://www.drivelinebaseball.c.....-marshall/

  95. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    Tom-

    Understood.

    Randy-

    You seem to be doing fine with Cashman all on your own.

    You don’t need my help.

    My approach would be to alter the rappelling equipment a little if I were you.

    ;)

  96. MTU March 6th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    New thread ——>

  97. Jerkface March 6th, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    Question, how many top power pitchers threw basically only 2 pitches?

    Kershaw, Randy Johnson, David Price? Those guys had an advantage being left handed hard throwers though.

  98. GreenBeret7 March 6th, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Sandy Koufax, Ron Guidry and Bob Gibson were two pitch pitchers.

  99. randy l. March 6th, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    peterson was with the mets from 2004-2008

    2003 10th- no rick peterson

    2004 7th peterson

    2005 3rd peterson

    2006 3rd peterson

    2007 7th peterson

    2008 6th peterson( half season)

    2009 12th no rick peterson

    there were 16 teams in the league.

  100. BIG AL March 6th, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    Thanks GB7 & Jerkface

    I was just asking, since it has been proven top quality SP can be successfull throwing basically just 2 pitches.

    How many basic pitches does Pineda throw?

  101. luis March 6th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    Randy,

    Thanks for the link….It was a very good read.

    JF,

    I wasn’t implying that you were against structure, if you did i apologize. You are right that there is no evidence that the Yankees don’t have a plan, as i mention before i think they have learned from their mistakes or appears to be that way . But i think the jury is still out there, let’s see how this new wave of prospects turns out before we throw them to the wolfs.

    I would say this though, it seems that the prospects that turn out the best are the ones that fly under the radar ( Nova, Drob).

    I do agree as well that there is no standard way to develop pitchers, after all they are individuals. But i think the mental state is key for a pitcher to be succesfull…Not always the prospect with the best stuff ends up being the best pitcher, and that is because the mental aspect is the most important part of the pitcher game IMO.

  102. Lost March 7th, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    hi

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