Friday notes: Banuelos takes another step forward
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Mar 09, 2012 
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This was more like it. After a somewhat erratic spring debut, Manny Banuelos looked more like an elite pitching prospect on the verge of the big leagues this afternoon. His fastball was in the mid-90s and he mixed offspeed pitches without walking anyone. He struck out three in two scoreless innings.
“I think he battled some nerves his first time out,” catcher Russell Martin said. “He looked like he was a little erratic. This time out, he was just pitching. Powering his fastball, downward plane, and he looked like he just had more control of all his pitches. So I think as we progress here, he’s just going to sharpen up.”
The Yankees have seen improvement in each of their top pitching prospects. Banuelos showed it today. Dellin Betances showed it yesterday. David Phelps, D.J. Mitchell and Adam Warren have been pretty sharp all spring, drawing consistent praise from Joe Girardi.
“I thought (Banuelos) attacked the zone better and was able to get his secondary pitches over,” Girardi said. “I thought Betances made a big jump too, yesterday. Betances was aggressive yesterday, threw some strikes and was throwing 95. You’re trying to get them more comfortable to attack the zone with their good stuff. I think we saw it from both of them.”
Expectation is that both Banuelos and Betances have next to zero chance of making the big league roster. They’re ticketed for Triple-A, and might not even be the first pitchers called up if the Yankees need a spot starter. But the Yankees have seen progress, and all eyes are on each of their outings.
Today it was Banuelos’ turn to shine.
“He’s got great stuff, no question,” Martin said. “But he still has to work on his changeup, and he still has to work on his breaking ball command for him to be who he wants to be. But it’s still early in the spring, and from this outing compared to the last, it’s already a nice leap forward. He definitely has the stuff. He’s got a lot of life on his fastball. It’s easy. He struck a couple guys out just elevating his fastball. But the main thing for him, he’s the type of guy who will get himself in trouble. He’s not going to get banged around because his stuff’s so good. But you don’t want the guy to walk guys and create his own troubles. And that’s what we’re trying to keep him from doing. Just make sure that he’s throwing the ball over the plate and using all his pitches.”
• Not much to say about Freddy Garcia’s outing. He went three scoreless innings with two strikeouts and one hit, keeping his pitch count low and working quickly. “Vintage Freddy,” is what Girardi called it. Before the game, Garcia told Martin that he wanted to work on his changeup a little bit, and Garcia said his changeup was arguably his best pitch of the day.
• Martin on Garcia: “His pitch count was relatively low because he got contact. He was throwing strikes. That’s what you want from him, just to be able to throw all his pitches over the plate, and induce contact. That’s what he did.”
• It was just yesterday that Joba Chamberlain told me he would begin throwing breaking balls on Sunday. Turns out, he’s ahead of even his own schedule. Chamberlain wound up throwing breaking balls this morning, throwing five sliders for the first time since Tommy John surgery. “Once I threw the first two, the last three were a lot better,” he said. Chamberlain went through his usual routine of 10 pitches off flat ground, 20 off a mound, a short rest, then 10 more off the mound. When that was finished, he threw all five sliders with his catcher standing up so that he wouldn’t feel the need to overthrow and keep the ball down.
• Most of the pitching attention today was on Garcia and Banuelos, but I thought Mitchell look pretty sharp. He’s known for that sinker, but he really has to use his changeup and breaking ball to stay effective, and today he got a swinging strike three with a good changeup that had good movement. He pitched two scoreless, allowing one hit and one walk.
• Juan Cedeno is probably the longest of long shots to make this team as a left-handed releiver, but today he came in to face one batter — big league lefty Freddie Freeman — and Cedeno got a strikeout. Kevin Whelan closed out the win with the final two outs.
• The 3-0 win snapped a four-game losing streak for the Yankees.
• Great play by Martin to get Michael Bourne out on a bunt in the third inning. It was a pretty good bunt up the third-base line, and Martin made a kind of twirling throw to get one of the fastest players in baseball. “That’s as good as it gets from a catcher,” Girardi said. “There aren’t too many people who can make that play, just because of his athleticism.”
• Even though the CT scan came back negative, the Yankees are taking things slow with Eduardo Nunez’s sore right hand. “We said, ‘Don’t take (batting practice) today and let’s see where you are tomorrow,’” Girardi said. As of right now, Nunez is not scheduled to make tomorrow’s trip to play the Braves.
• No one had more than one hit today, but four Yankees — Martin, Nick Swisher, Eric Chavez and Doug Bernier — did have doubles in the win. It was Swisher’s second double of the spring. Robinson Cano picked up his second RBI. Derek Jeter, Curtis Granderson, Melky Mesa and Gustavo Molina also had hits.
• For Sunday’s split-squad games, the plan is for the big league outfielders to travel to Fort Myers with Phil Hughes. The big league infielders will stay in Tampa to play behind CC Sabathia and Mariano Rivera. Girardi is going to the road game. I’m still making up my mind.
Associated Press photos
Repost:
Pat
Barring a dramatic turn around, that would suck, but yes, it could happen.
But as for the 4 year run: Jeter will be 41 in three years; A-Rod will be 40. You really see them playing a majority of games at SS/3B even at those ages?
They have gotten used to great (not good) production at SS/3B (and at catcher, btw) for a very, very long time.
It’s likely they will need at least one impact bat to compensate who can play SS or 3B.
And it has to be done in the context of reducing payroll significantly.
If Martin isn’t even league average offensively (or even if he is league average), big bucks will be very hard to justify while maintaining the ability to fill the potential need I outlined above.
I would not be shocked to see Banuelos push his way onto the roster in August after the trade deadline in place of Phil Hughes. I think they should trade Hughes for Chris Young.
from last thread: most stolen bases as a catcher. Would have looked it up myself, but I thought one or two of you would have known.
Manny looked super today.
http://reconditebaseball.blogs.....tcher.html
tom
I came across this when you mentioned it, but thought you had left:
http://bb_catchers.tripod.com/catchers/stolen.htm
repost:
IMO, anyone who is saying we needed offense more than we needed pitching is being entirely disingenuous, is totally ignoring the reality of the Yankee situation, and can’t separate the forest from the trees on this one.
And this is coming from someone who was uber-content to go into the season with AJ and Hughes, CC, Nova and Freddy (if it happened that way) and thought Montero would never be traded.
I’m not a win-at-all-costs kind of guy and I have total faith in Yankee players. But if I want to be totally realistic, our best chances of winning it all likely weren’t going to come with AJ, Hughes is still a question mark until he isn’t, and I’m not at all convinced about Kuroda, but that’s okay. Maybe he’s going to work out just fine.
Rational thinking here. Organizational reality here. They do NOT keep the DH spot tied up with phenoms. They need it to be open for resting players from their positions, etc., just like they have been doing.
Reality sometimes bites.
I think the Yankees will be a lot less austere in 2015, after they reset the luxury tax by staying below the threshold for 2 seasons.
Rich,
Thanks. I’m gone now.
in fairness you can also take the argument on the pitching… 1) they don’t any impact pitcher under 30. 02 they don’t any near ML ready impact pitcher..maybe one (Manbam)
——————
That’s their fault though. By now shouldn’t there be at least one pitcher from the farm that is a consistent 14- 16 game winner. We are still sitting here saying to ourselves hopefully Hughes can take.a step forward this season
Randy
I think they stick with Cervelli because he is what he is. He’s not the guy who’s going to catch anywhere near the majority of your games, he gets some key hits and he knows the pitching staff.
But, I think when they brought him up, he was known more for defense than offense and had a pretty good track record for that in the minors. Have no idea why that’s changed, why he doesn’t throw guys out as much and why he had all those errors.
I can see him being replaced mid-season by Romine if Romine makes good strides in AAA. But then, he’s got the back thing. No perfect scenarios. Not a one.
Trisha,
I love you too, by the way…..
Rich in NJ….No, I see Jeter and Alex sharing the DH duties…….Andruw Jones hits two balls solid that traveled some 775 feet and it’ll show an 0-2 tomorrow
“But maybe you are right… and i smoked something weird. ”
I still give you kudos for being an extremely rational poster – even when you’re smoking wacky weed!
GreenBeret7 March 9th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
Against All Odds March 9th, 2012 at 7:24 pm in fairness you can also take the argument on the pitching… 1) they don’t any impact pitcher under 30. 02 they don’t any near ML ready impact pitcher..maybe one (Manbam)
——————
That’s their fault though. By now shouldn’t there be at least one pitcher from the farm that is a consistent 14- 16 game winner. We are still sitting here saying to ourselves hopefully Hughes can take.a step forward this season.
————————————————————————————————————————-
It takes more than 6 years to rebuild a farm system when you’re drafting at the back of the order
—————-
True but they should have had at least one by now right. A number of teams have at least have one guy whether it’s the highly touted prospect that lives up to the hype or the player that comes out of nowhere.
luis, I have to say (sincerely) that I also understand your argument. You’re thinking that the Yanks maybe could have stuck with Montero at DH and then groomed him for another position rather than give away his bat. I absolutely understand that position. You know, if Hughes and AJ had come up roses the past few seasons, I think it’s possible we may have seen that happen…
Well, injuries sure sidetrack things…
GB-
Attached list ot top 500 stolen base leaders. Don’t recognize all the names. I’ll stick with Jason Kendall. Wathan played some 1st base.
I get USA Sports Weekly which ranked the Top 100 MLB Names you need to know this season.
Julio Teheran was #6. After seeing Banuelos and Teheran today, Banuelos is more impressive!
BD- If you’re still on I’ll be perusing the list to look for potential impact, rookie bats from contenders,that have a chance to helpthis season.
Sorry but here’s the list-for bathroom reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....olen_bases
“Well, injuries sure sidetrack things…”
trisha – true pinstriped blue March 9th, 2012 at 7:46 pm
luis, I have to say (sincerely) that I also understand your argument. You’re thinking that the Yanks maybe could have stuck with Montero at DH and then groomed him for another position rather than give away his bat. I absolutely understand that position. You know, if Hughes and AJ had come up roses the past few seasons, I think it’s possible we may have seen that happen…
======================
Trish,
I think Montero was going to be able to catch….at least until Sanchez or Murphy were ready, by then Tex is gone, so you move him to 1b if he is such a liability behind the plate.
Having said that, i have an obvious bias in the issue as well…i’m also a proud prospect hugger.
Yankee Trader March 9th, 2012 at 7:47 pm
According to Martin he is still has ways to go…. I wasn’t able to watch the game but would like to hear what you think
Pat
OK, that’s reasonable. So they will likely need to acquire a 3B/SS with offensive upside unless Nunez surpasses even the most optimistic expectations. That will cost big money and/or top player personnel assets. So it’s another reason why giving Martin (and Swisher) big money for more than two years may not be prudent at this juncture (think Dana Carvey doing Bush I
).
Andruw will have a big season against both RH and LH pitching if given the chance.
Later.
From the top 100 names you need to know. List of some potential impact bats on contending teams that are coming from the minors or are still considered rookies:
Mike Trout-Angels
Paul Goldschmidt-Diamondbacks
Matt Gamel-Brewers
Bryce Harper-Nationals. Yes I think they’ll be contenders.
Swisher may be an easier and less expensive sign. Doesn’t his wife film in NYC?
later Rich
YT,
The nationals will be a force to recon with in the not so distant future
Tader, Fisk stole 128 bases in his career. That surprised me.
Harper was dreaming to be a Yankee right?
***Trader***
does mo know where they load the buses for road games?
Rich in NJ….I see that you may have left, but I think baseball is going to be very competitive in the second half of this decade……I also think The Yanks will be fighting for postseason spots as well and are counting on everyday pitching to carry them into October…..The Yankees are going to have to fight off the competition more than ever in the years ahead…..Back to basics…….Clubs like Washington, Pittsburgh are going to be the teams to beat in The NL……..Making the postseason every year while rebuilding is so difficult, almost impossible….That reality is going to be setting in for Yankee fans and LA Laker fans
for 6 years, the Yanks have been trying to rebuild a nearly non-existant farm system while drafting from the end of the draft. It’s coming around. Hughes has had a very good year as a reliever and another as a starter. Chamberlain, the same. Robertson is another. They traded a bat for an arm. They spent much of those 6 years signing pitchers and catchers…two much in need positions and those are the players everyone asks for. sounds like it’s paying off to me. The other positions ae on the way.
Pat M. March 9th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
Spot on
GB-
That’s OK that you mistyped my log-in name. At least I’m not traitor!
Luis-
Teheran was throwing 95 mph straight first pitch fastballs that the Yankees were aggresively swinging on. The wind wasn’t a factor like it was when he was lit up yo the tune of 6 homers in an 18-3 loss to the Tigers.
Banuelos impressed me with his fluid easy delivery, his breaking stuff, his composure with a runner on second, striking out the next hitter on a wicked curve. Most of all he hit 96 on the radar gun. He’s the entire package.
The farm has been turned around no one can deny that.
For the first 3 of those 6 years, NYY had to take a lot of gambles on young pitchers and then rehab them. That means taking longer to get them to NY. They don’t have to gamble as often on those types of pitchers. That’s probably the biggest reason for going after one more front line type pitcher. It cost them Montero, but, it was necessary to fill the rotation with a cheaper arm than a Wilson or Darvish would have been.
Thanks Trader,
Wish i could have seen it….I guess in time we’ll wath him in the NYS mound
PatM
The Yankees will be trying to stay competitive while staying within the new LT in 2014. Doesn’t it seem like more teams are now locking up their young stars before their arb years are completed? The Yankees will compete if they invest their dollars to have the best minor league instructors and facilities.
I don’t see the Pirates competing for many years to come.
With the spending caps on the draft and IFA market, the only way teams may acquire good young talent is by having a few bad years and getting a good pick. Guys aren’t going to slip for sign-ability reasons anymore. And with the looming INT draft, no more Sanchez’s…
I understand but if you told Cashman back in 06 that 6 yrs from now the big 3 had a starter still trying to prove himself, a sixth inning reliever recovering from TJ, and the one that was traded away is the best of the three you don’t think he would be a little disappointed. He had to expect more than this
Luis, but you didn’t account for Romine – a very big cog in the wheel so it seems. So DH position would have been tied up for longer than the Yanks wanted apparently.
Again, if the Yankees weren’t desperate for SP, maybe things would have been done differently. But to get, you have to give.
*************
Chandler out again.
And here’s a novel idea, Yanks fans.
Everyone points to Yankee hitting as the reason Yanks didn’t progress in the postseason.
Well, there ya go.
GOOD PITCHING STOPS GOOD HITTING! PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!
Odds,
Injuries happen, is imposible to forsee them. But i think of the three the best one is Joba… I am hoping that they give him the chance to start again. He probably expected more than what he got, but i think he rushed them a little bit….Still, i think the jury is still out there….If hughes has a good season and Joba returns even stronger than before…Who knows?
“GOOD PITCHING STOPS GOOD HITTING! PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!”
when was the last team to lead the league in pitching and win a world series?
Giants in 2010?
Giants in 2010.
Yes you can’t forsee injuries but the Yankees definitely didn’t help the situation.
“Giants in 2010.”
before that?
Before that?
Diamondbacks in 2001?
Against All Odds March 9th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
Yes you can’t forsee injuries but the Yankees definitely didn’t help the situation.
Very true.
Pittsburgh is racking up Padilla for Boston. 5 hits and 4 runs in the inning…3 doubles.
Braves in 1995
Was there me before 2010? Long time ago.
“Pittsburgh is racking up Padilla for Boston. 5 hits and 4 runs in the inning…3 doubles.”
YES!!!!!
On the other hand, the nicks are looking pretty good but they’re playing a team that is well under 500 so I can’t get too excited. Still it’s better than losing…
Was there ***time*** before 2010? Long time ago.
And it’s a little tough and more than skewed to talk about “leading the league” since the unbalanced schedule is going to help favor teams in the easiest divisions. So much for that.
A balanced team should win more than either offensive only teams or pitching and defense only teams. Balance is the key.
luis – don’t disagree.
The Yankees are beautifully balanced now that they’ve shored up their pitching.
Switched over to watch the 6-2 game. Sad I missed Chucky’s wonderful debut.
Giants 2010
Before that:
White Sox 2005
Diamondbacks 2001
Braves 1995
trisha – true pinstriped blue March 9th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
luis – don’t disagree.
The Yankees are beautifully balanced now that they’ve shored up their pitching.
====================
I agree…they have a much better team than what they had last year…This season we should win a bunch of games health and luck permiting
Trader, since the unbalanced schedule was introduced in 2001, I’m more than a little leery to buy that teams leading the league in anything necessarily means much.
Unfortunately.
“Giants 2010
Before that:
White Sox 2005
Diamondbacks 2001
Braves 1995″
yankee trader=
thanks
so then since 1995 ,which would be 16 years , there have been 4 teams that have led their league in pitching and then won a world series.
the reality is that great pitching only wins every four years .
YT,
thanks
but no way Mat Gamel qualifies as a big impact bat right now. He’ll be turning 27 this season and hasn’t done anything.
he’s an impact bust.
Harper for sure… but Washington hasn’t been a playoff team yet.
Of teams that have been seeing playoff games over the past few years, not many have those young impact bats coming up (Trout for sure.)
not so sure about Goldschmidt but I don’t know enough about him to say either way.
luis March 9th, 2012 at 8:21 pm
Thanks Trader,
Wish i could have seen it….I guess in time we’ll wath him in the NYS mound
_____
Luis, I thought you have mlb-tv. You can watch the archived game.
trisha,
but Bobby V “loves him”
“”You know, Padilla moves the ball back and forth and up and down,” Valentine said. “Obviously he knows what he’s doing out on the mound. ”
how could Bobby V ever be wrong???
“Trader, since the unbalanced schedule was introduced in 2001, I’m more than a little leery to buy that teams leading the league in anything necessarily means much.”
good idea , lets throw out numbers.
so how do you define this best pitching team that should win everything?
oh , i know , you know it when you see it.
so maybe the four teams that led the league in pitching weren’t really the best pitching team because you know unbalanced schedule.
so where does that leave you or anyone to discuss this?
Trisha-
I tend to agree. The team that heads into the postseason injury free and on a roll often finishes with the entire enchilada.
was there any doubt that Philly had the best starting pitching last season?
(and the best record in baseball)
as some of us, I think, would agree…. the playoffs are a bit of a crapshoot. Lots of luck involved, momentum, etc.
The question we should be asking is, do the teams with the best pitching staffs routinely win their divisions and/or make the playoffs?
Outside of 09, CC has been well below average in his playoff career. No one knows how Pineda will fare either.
Their questionable staff of last year was 1 Montero PH away from going to the ALCS, where they matched up very well with the Rangers.
You have to be a freakin’ idiot to be unable to understand how the unbalanced schedule has entirely skewed “the best teams” in the majors.
randy, take a bow.
And I didn’t see ANYONE (other than randy in his question) who said it had to be the “best” team in the league. The idea is simply that PITCHING wins championships.
Surprised with allyour vast experience in baseball, ahem, that you never came across that since it’s so widely accepted in baseball. And you of all things, being a catcher. Geeze, those pitchers I guess didn’t consider you important enough to discuss the reality of the game.
So if that’s too hard for you to understand, go back about whining about Cashman. You’re a pro at that.
“The question we should be asking is, do the teams with the best pitching staffs routinely win their divisions and/or make the playoffs?”
i would agree with that.
“The question we should be asking is, do the teams with the best pitching staffs routinely win their divisions and/or make the playoffs?”
Or another question could be whether the teams who make the postseason routinely have better pitching or better hitting – where there is a differential.
YF,
Hello good to see you…I have MLB network on Direct tv, not MLB.com
“Trisha-
I tend to agree. The team that heads into the postseason injury free and on a roll often finishes with the entire enchilada.”
Thanks Trader.
Not only the pitching team reach on a regular basis…I think the Yankees of the 00′s proved thast as well.
BD,
Agreed, PS is a crapshoot, luck and momentum play a big part…that’s why i’ve said that we should try to make the playoffs, everything from there is gravy
“And I didn’t see ANYONE (other than randy in his question) who said it had to be the “best” team in the league. The idea is simply that PITCHING wins championships.”
i see.
so the team that has the pitching that wins championships isn’t necessarily the best pitching team.
i think the whole blog wonders how you are defining the pitching in your ” pitching wins championships”.
you don’t define it as the stat leader.
you don’t define it at all.
you just say pitching wins championships which is pretty meaningless because lots of teams that don’t lead the league in pitching win world series.
basically you’re just throwing out an opinion with no facts or numbers to back it up.
“i think the whole blog wonders how you are defining the pitching in your ” pitching wins championships”
Once again, you speak for the whole forum.
“Or another question could be whether the teams who make the postseason routinely have better pitching or better hitting – where there is a differential.”
i have a hunch that neither the best pitching teams or the best hitting teams win the most world series or make the most playoff appearances.
it is probably the teams with the most balance between hitting and pitching and fielding.
just a hunch.
we have seen that there are only 4 teams in the last 16 years that have led their league in pitching and won the whole enchilada so that pretty much shoots down the ” pitching wins championships” theory.
“basically you’re just throwing out an opinion with no facts or numbers to back it up.”
Your patron saint, Torre, is one of the experts who has said that.
OH NO!
“that’s why i’ve said that we should try to make the playoffs, everything from there is gravy”
———
I agree.
except I do believe that having two front end starters who are at least capable of a shutdown game is big.
Not every champ needs Halladay and Lee…. but when you have have a solid #1 and a solid #2, the odds of at least one of them having a dominant game and single-handedly winning for you is pretty good.
I am not gonna start the Pineda debate, but if he can become that solid #2 with CC at #1, it really would make a big difference in the playoffs IMO.
“Once again, you speak for the whole forum.”
you’re arguing a weak position.
there are no facts backing up your position.
” but when you have have a solid #1 and a solid #2, the odds of at least one of them having a dominant game and single-handedly winning for you is pretty good.”
i would agree with that too, and a third money pitcher like pettitte doesn’t hurt either.
Yankeefem,
if you are still around….Can i get MLB tv for the computer? outside the US?
BD,
I am not gonna start the Pineda debate, but if he can become that solid #2 with CC at #1, it really would make a big difference in the playoffs IMO.
=======================
All your post is true as well, i do think the Yankees are a better team than last year, my doubts are going forward. But i’m not getting into that either
Looks like I found the data for you. Have a ball:
“Only 22 of 106 winners had better hitting than pitching (20.75 percent)”
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....pionships/
I knew there was a reason ALL THE EXPERTS IN THE GAME HAVE SAID THAT PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.
Let me ask this, what would you rather have and which gives you the better chance of playing in October and possibly winning in October…..A good hitting club with average pitching, or a good pitching club with average hitting ???
“there are no facts backing up your position.”
Try this on for size.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/m.....pionships/
“i would agree with that too, and a third money pitcher like pettitte doesn’t hurt either.”
———-
hell, i think that’s the real secret
have a pettitte pitch in every big playoff game and forget about everything else.
any Jeremy Bleich sightings? wasn’t he supposed to be like Pettitte?
(yes i know he’s been hurt)
Pat M,
The latter obviously
I’ve got to go, but how do you define the best pitching staff? Often it’s by ERA.Is it the starters or bullpens ERA which is more important? The Rangers lost the WS with one of the finest bullpens in Adams and Feliz, who failed when they were needed most.
I’ll repeat, the team that enters the postseason with the most bullets[healthy] in their belt and on a roll often finish on top with the whole enchilada.
I believed Fate had a hand in the 1996 Yankees comeback from an 0-2 deficit going to Atlanta down but realized that Fate has absolutely no influence in 2001, when the Yankees won two of the games at the instant the clock struck midnight, only to lose to a 6’10″ starter, turned reliever for one game and a dink hit off the best reliever in the history of baseball, on a drawn in infield by a juiced Luis Gonzalez.
But still needs to have offense…and ours is getting old.
I think winning a World Series takes a tremendous amount of skill and luck.
luis March 9th, 2012 at 9:44 pm
But still needs to have offense…and ours is getting old.
————————-
Yes it is especially the left side.
Brandon Jacobs got released by the Giants today.
“Only 22 of 106 winners had better hitting than pitching (20.75 percent)”
so the team doesn’t have to have good pitching?
just better than it’s hitting?
so a team wins with better pitching than hitting , even if neither is very good .
there is no qualifier except that the pitching has to be better than the hitting?
that’s your rule?
so couldn’t the yankees just weaken their hitting to make their pitching better than their hitting.
that’d be really easy.
again , this criteria is silly and makes no sense.
Yank 97 March 9th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Their questionable staff of last year was 1 Montero PH away from going to the ALCS, where they matched up very well with the Rangers.
///
Yes. But the bat, sat. I often wonder what would have happened if we’d played Texas in the first round.
We would have won that series, and anal Joe would have “allowed” Montero to hit, because of Texas’ LHP. OTOH, as you say, we were likely one Montero PH away from facing Texas, anyway, and you can theoretically argue that we’d have had the upperhand in an ALCS against them, which could have put us in….yes, the World Series.
Thoughts for a rainy April day…..:(
And oh my dear Lord, this seals the deal.
“We have an offense that can score runs, but pitching has been the key,” shortstop Derek Jeter. “Pitching wins championships.”
“This team is going to go as far as the starting pitching goes,” right-fielder Paul O’Neill said.
“To me, pitching is what our strength has been and why we’ve been in the playoffs the four years I’ve been here,” Torre said.
Back to the Knicks.
YF,
No need, i just suscribed to MLB and MiLB, don’t know why i didn’t did this before.
” There have only been three teams in 106 chances who have won a World Series when their regular season ERA+ was less than 100. They are the 1987 Minnesota Twins, the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals and the 1913 Philadelphia A’s. A team of below-average pitching has only won it all 2.83 percent of the time, which I personally find to be mind-blowing.”
Trisha-
Good find to back up the argument. I was “blown away” after reading it!
Sorry, I had many articles for randy but forgot only one link per post:
http://www.baseballdigest.com/.....pionships/
Sorry didn’t do this before
Trader – THANK YOU!!!!!
Since 1995 (Wild Card ERA) ERA leaders:
1995: Braves won WS
1996: LAD did not make PS
1997: Braves lost in NLCS
1998: Braves lost in WS: Yankees had #1 ERA in A.L. won WS
1999: Braves lost WS
2000: Braves lost in NLCS
2001: Seattle lost in ALCS
2002: Braves lost NLDS
2003: LAD did not make PS
2004: Braves lost NLDS
2005: Cardinals lost in ALCS; CWS had #1 ERA in A.L. won WS
2006: Tigers lost in WS
2007: Padres did not make PS; Red Sox had #1 ERA in A.L. won WS
2008: Blue Jays did not make PS
2009: LAD lost in NLCS
2010: Giants won WS
2011: Phily lost NLCS
RUNS:
1995: Indians lost the WS
1996: Seattle did not make PS
1997: Seattle lost in ALDS
1998: Yankees won WS
1999: Indians lost in ALDS
2000: White Sox lost in ALDS
2001: Seattle lost ALCS
2002: Yankees lost in ALDS
2003: Boston lost ALCS
2004: Boston won WS
2005: Red Sox lost ALDS
2006: Yankees lost ALDS
2007: Yankees lost in ALDS
2008: Texas did not make PS
2009: Yanks won WS
2010: Yanks lost ALCS
2011: Red Sox no post season
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....n-baseball
Yanks most likely were going to get smoked last year in the ALCS…..One Montero PH away from going to the ALCS…… Really !!!!
“Try this on for size.”
this is a direct quote from your article:
“the team that wins it all is going to land in the top right portion of the graph, which means they’ll have both good pitching and good hitting.”
you really have to learn to read graphs .
it does not say ” pitching wins championships”
your graph says you win more championships with good pitching and good hitting.
that backs up my position and not yours , but thanks for the graph.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....mpionships
Luis, I don’t see why not. But if you have any questions, you can call mlb-tv’s int’l phone number and ask them: “International callers can dial: 512-434-1542.”
Pitching wins championships is a truism, that’s all.
Without qualifiers, it’s hollow.
BD (Boston Dave) March 9th, 2012 at 9:42 pm
“i would agree with that too, and a third money pitcher like pettitte doesn’t hurt either.”
———-
hell, i think that’s the real secret
have a pettitte pitch in every big playoff game and forget about everything else.
any Jeremy Bleich sightings? wasn’t he supposed to be like Pettitte?
(yes i know he’s been hurt)
————————————————————————————————————————-
Bleich was one of those college injury risks the Yanks took a few years ago. Threw all of the fastball at 93-94 MPH, curve and change-up, left handed and from Louisiana. Shoulder surgery for a torn labrum. They had more concerns over his elbow than his shoulder.
Hi Luis, just saw your post, good for you. You will love both. We can talk not only mlb but milb in depth.
Pat M,
For sure.
Nova was hurt.
CC, AJ, Garcia vs that Texas lineup?
I’ll give the Yanks a shot any day, but simply conceding that the Rangers would have lost that series is a tough pill to swallow.
J. Alfred Prufrock March 9th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Yank 97 March 9th, 2012 at 9:17 pm
Their questionable staff of last year was 1 Montero PH away from going to the ALCS, where they matched up very well with the Rangers.
///
Yes. But the bat, sat. I often wonder what would have happened if we’d played Texas in the first round.
We would have won that series, and anal Joe would have “allowed” Montero to hit, because of Texas’ LHP. OTOH, as you say, we were likely one Montero PH away from facing Texas, anyway, and you can theoretically argue that we’d have had the upperhand in an ALCS against them, which could have put us in….yes, the World Series.
Thoughts for a rainy April day…..:(
++++++++++++++++++
High JAP!,
To be fair we don’t know what would have happened if in deed Girardi brought Montero to the plate….But it was the right call to do so, and if we lose, then i would have been satisfied that we did everything in our power to win, but we didn’t……
Trader – another thing which has skewed the offensive stats is the steroid era. So I think we need to try to account for that somehow. Some of us with more expansive thinking will be able to do that. Pea brains will not be able to make the leap and will be back in the dust, still railing about Montero and hating on Cashman.
Oh well.
J Al – didn’t know you were here and DEFINITELY didn’t mean you. Okay, I meant randy, if it wasn’t obvious.
Pat M. March 9th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Yanks most likely were going to get smoked last year in the ALCS…..One Montero PH away from going to the ALCS…… Really !!!!
////
I disagree. Posada moved up in the lineup, plus actually using Montero to pinch hit, and we’re out of the Detroit series. And maybe, if Girardi had used a rested Soriano or DRob instead of mailing in Game 2 by bringing in Ayala instead, we could have made it easier on ourselves. The pitching was fine.
I think we could have beaten the Rangers.
A better managed series, and the Yankees win it.
yankeefeminista March 9th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Hi Luis, just saw your post, good for you. You will love both. We can talk not only mlb but milb in depth.
==================
Looking forward to do so!!
Bleich was supposed to get into live games last year, but the season ended before he was able to. He says he is healthy and looking forward to being back in 2012.
*Logs in … Enjoy’s the banter up till 8:39 … Proceeds to read the next hours worth of comments … Holds back sudden urge or bile… logs out due to visual motion sickness*
Only eight of 40 winners had better hitting than pitching in the divisional era (20 percent)
————————————
Trisha still backs up her argument.
However, there are so many extraneous factors in the playoffs that determine a teams FATE-things like weather, rain delays, nerves, “midges”, etc that the best overall team often doesn’t win it all.
So, immediamente por favor, watch ManBan’s two innings from today, luis.
How does Evan Rutckyj look so far?
“We have an offense that can score runs, but pitching has been the key,” shortstop Derek Jeter. “Pitching wins championships.”
“This team is going to go as far as the starting pitching goes,” right-fielder Paul O’Neill said.
Don’t let the best in the game dissuade you now!
But for any real doubting Thomases (and I’m not one), I give you it right from the mouth of a saint:
“To me, pitching is what our strength has been and why we’ve been in the playoffs the four years I’ve been here,” Torre said.
Blessed are they who see and believe. But more blessed are they who do not see and believe.
Now back to the Knicks.
Sad that the world will be denied one final conferance showdown between Kansas and Missouri. I was really hoping to watch that tomorrow night.
Sadder still that someone gave me Baylor +6 as a hot tip and I never got any money on it.
trisha -
you are totally misreading the graph you are giving .
it clearly is making the point that a team that has pitching that is a little better than it’s hitting is usually the team that wins.
this simply doesn’t mean that a team should build a pitching dominate team.
it rather says that a team should have both good pitching and good hitting but that pitching should be a little better than the hitting.
that’s very different than creating a team that the pitching is really strong and the hitting weak which seems to be your positions that the yankees should sacrifice hitting for pitching.
if you want to say pitching should be a little better than the hitting on a championship team then i have no problem with that.
but to say ” pitching wins championship” is just silly and simplistic.
Wow, YF i’m impresed of your spanish…..Does it take long to load the game?…I’m still waiting for the image
Trader – I have truly hated the unbalanced schedule. To me that has screwed with things so much it is’t funny. That’s why we can’t look at the WS winner and call it the best team in the majors. It’s the team that has played best during the postseason. And as you said, so many things come into play.
I had a lot more comfort in crowning “the best” when there was a balanced schedule.
(And then there are the umps…)
Lin is +7
Fields +7
Stoudamire is +5
Carmelo is -10
“if you want to say pitching should be a little better than the hitting on a championship team then i have no problem with that”
I don’t see how that differs from saying “pitching wins championships”. It seems to me the next step.
However, I am totally comfortable saying pitching should be better than hitting oon a championship team.
Luis, just depends on your internet connection and the general quirkiness of the particular mlb archive.
trisha – true pinstriped blue March 9th, 2012 at 10:01 pm
J Al – didn’t know you were here and DEFINITELY didn’t mean you. Okay, I meant randy, if it wasn’t obvious.
///
They’ve declined for the past two years against RHP. They’re not the 2009 Yankees.
People can pretend that’s who we still are, but that is a fantasy. The reality is, the lineup has trouble against hard throwing RHP it hasn’t encountered before.
Also, the Yankees are without Jorge Posada behind the plate. It’s astounding that folks think the Yankee offense without that kind of contribution from the catcher position is just going to get off without a hitch. It just tells me they’ve never understood the advantage we’ve had all these years, or how the offense functioned to frustrate and tire even good pitching staffs.
Using “offense” as some generic concept doesn’t begin to address what people who are concerned about the lineup are talking about. “Offense” isn’t piling on hits to create disproportionate leads against soft middle relief.
“Offense” here means having someone who can make good contact and get around on somebody pitching for his team’s playoff life in a tight game to swing it in your team’s favor.
These terms, “pitching”, “defense” and “offense”, and the way you’re using them in some imagined victory for making this trade, have no meaning.
Pruf being a little irrational by saying that montero would definately get a game winning hit? Could he have? Sure, but, the same could be said for every player on that team could have gotten a game winning hit. Of course, your arguement was made so much stronger when you used “Anal Joe”.
Time to head up the 405 to Staples and watch Cal punch out Colorado……Loading up on this game tonight spotting them 7…..Who’s pitching for Cal tonight, I gottsa know…..Later all
BD – IMO Knicks were a better team with Melo out of the game.
I’ve got to go now but I was so impressed by Banuelos today that I liked him better than Julio Teheran, who many rank as the 2nd best baseball pitching prospect behind Matt Moore.
BTW-SIRI says pitching wins more World Series. So there you have it.
Good night. Good arguments.
trisha
what action follows when someone says “pitching wins championships”
why not trade derek jeter for a pitcher?
why not trade cano for a pitcher?
why not carry your statement out to its logical absurdity and build a ridiculously loaded pitching team by trading all your offensive stars for star pitchers?
the yankees could build the best pitching staff in the league this year and it guarantees nothing.
if they have the best pitching and the best hitting that won’t even guarantee anything, but it would get them in the crapshoot which is back to what bd was saying.
there’s just nowhere to go with ” pitching wins championships”.
it’s really an empty statement that sounds good , but tells us nothing about how to build a team.
“Pruf being a little irrational by saying that montero would definately get a game winning hit? ”
————–
Considering he said the Yanks traded away a young Pujols (and made sure it was clear that’s not an exaggeration), it’s not surprising.
I think Pruf really believes in Montero being a top 5 all-time hitter.
We’ll see….
anthony is just awful right now.
New Post—–>
J Al – wish we still had Montero.
Glad we have Pineada.
I believe this Yankee team is built to go all the way.
trisha,
I think the stats back up your opinion.
When Melo is on the floor, the Knicks get outscored. I’m pretty sure that’s become a trend.
This is funny:
“Robert Andino couldn’t be granted a playoff share, but the Rays did give him a standing ovation when he came to bat in the first inning Friday of their game against the Orioles.
“We just talked about that prior to the game, what was the appropriate thing to do? We saw him in the two-hole, we said let’s give him a nice round of applause,” Rays manager Joe Maddon told the Tampa Tribune. “He was startled by it. He didn’t know what was going on. He was looking around. I thought it was pretty good.””
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......g-ovation/
Good night Trader, good threads in deed.
High JAP!,
To be fair we don’t know what would have happened if in deed Girardi brought Montero to the plate….But it was the right call to do so, and if we lose, then i would have been satisfied that we did everything in our power to win, but we didn’t……
///
Hi Luis! Of course, I agree. It’s about giving your team the best chance to win. If you lose, then, you lose.
BD – it’s disgusting. Even if D’Antoni recognizes the problem, I think he’s too afraid of
Anthony to do anything about it.
Horrid. He might let their season go right down the tubes.
Tom in NJ re: Andino – LOVE IT!!!!!
BD (Boston Dave) March 9th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
“Pruf being a little irrational by saying that montero would definately get a game winning hit? ”
————–
Considering he said the Yanks traded away a young Pujols (and made sure it was clear that’s not an exaggeration), it’s not surprising.
I think Pruf really believes in Montero being a top 5 all-time hitter.
We’ll see….
///
I said they just traded away a young Albert Pujols. If Montero had played his whole career in YS, he’d have a career OPS over 1. If that’s going out on a limb, so be it – but I don’t think so.
I see a very advanced approach, pitch recognition, plate coverage, perfect swing mechanics, the ability to make superior contact, and with power, and a guy who knows what he’s looking for. IOW, I see a young Pujols.
Tom in N.J. March 9th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
This is funny:
“Robert Andino couldn’t be granted a playoff share, but the Rays did give him a standing ovation when he came to bat in the first inning Friday of their game against the Orioles.
“We just talked about that prior to the game, what was the appropriate thing to do? We saw him in the two-hole, we said let’s give him a nice round of applause,” Rays manager Joe Maddon told the Tampa Tribune. “He was startled by it. He didn’t know what was going on. He was looking around. I thought it was pretty good.””
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports……g-ovation/
————————————————————————————————————————-
The Devil Rays should have voted him a full share. I wonder if Whitey Bulger puts a contract out on him when he shows up in Boston?
“However, I am totally comfortable saying pitching should be better than hitting oon a championship team.”
ok fine.
the articel you quoted said :
• The average World Series winner had an OPS+ of 103.47 and a median of 104
• The average World Series winner had an ERA+ of 113.84 and a median of 113
• Thus, on average, the winner has an ERA+ of 10.37 more than its OPS+
this is very different than simply saying ” PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!”
As much as I wanted Montero to play his full career in NY and after following his career since 2008, I would never predict him to be another Mantle or Pujols. That’s asking for trouble with that sort of pressure on a young player.
One great half vs the hawks and we declared them world beaters.The Hawks?!!? Another pseudo “team.”They were finally healthy yet stunk the 1st 1/2 then got it up for the 2nd and we declared them champs. Are we that easily seduced or are we that desperate? Where is Lin? He doesn’t fit into the soulless Dantoni’s scheme and is doomed to failure. They are not only rudderless, as they will not win a game without Chandler and dare i say Jeffries, once declared the worst player in the league, now a star? Why do teams get up for us, guys like Jennings and Dunleavy become superstars in our presence, Pierce a god. They are a team of runs, not solid basketball. They showed something for a stretch, a run, but revert back to nowhere land as if it never happened. Perplexing, but the lack of an identity or any character such as real teams like the Celtics, Bulls, Lakers or Spursis the reason. Melo is the true face of this team yet Lin is the reality. Dantoni stands in the way.
From the hardball times article:
“League average” OPS is based only on position players. Team OPS of course includes pitcher hitting. This means that, for the entire history of the NL and the pre-DH history of the AL, league average TEAM OPS+ is not 100. The 2006 Cards had a 97 OPS+ in a league with an average team OPS+ of 94 so they were above-average. The 1907 Cubs had a 92 OPS+ in a league with an average team OPS+ of 93 so they were barely below-average.
Shift the Y-axis so it crosses the X-axis at around 94-95 and you have a more accurate chart (post-DH AL winners screw things up though—the Twins were a legit below-average offense). In that chart, almost all the winners are, no surprise, above-average in both offense and defense.
In short, a median OPS+ of 104 is, for most of baseball history, about 10 OPS+ points above average and a lot closer to a median ERA+ of 114 than you think. As a crude fix, divide team OPS+ by league-average OPS+ then re-do your plot.
There are also potentially issues about how ERA+ is figured (see Tango’s work on that) and that OPS+ undervalues OBP some.