Almonte making an impression in Yankees camp
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 11, 2012 
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Zoilo Almonte wasn’t necessarily organizational filler, but for too long he’d been an intriguing young hitter with so-so results. He had a pretty nice year with Staten Island in 2009 — .274/.355/.440 — he followed it with a kind of all-or-nothing 2010 split between Charleston and Tampa. There was always something to like, but rarely anything to love, and he remained firmly on the fringes of prospect buzz.
Last spring was the breakout that landed him a spot on the 40-man, and his first week and a half in big league camp have him on the radar.
“His at-bats are really good,” Joe Girardi said today. “His defense has been good. He’s run the bases. Everything that you’d ask a player to do, he’s done. This is a young man that really kind of burst on the scene a little bit. He showed up on the radar, (and) we might really have something. He’s just continued to do it in camp. Has there been a hitter more productive?”
Counting his big game against South Florida, Almonte is 6-for-10 with seven RBI. You could certainly make the case that Alex Rodriguez and maybe even Jose Gil have been just as good, but Almonte has made himself a player worth watching. He hit .293/.368/.514 before a promotion to Trenton last season, and this year’s trick will be continuing that production at the Double-A level. The upper levels of the Yankees system are thin in the outfield, so Almonte could easily put himself on the verge if he continues to hit.
In some ways, Melky Mesa is a cautionary tale. Mesa was also a fringy prospect who landed a 40-man spot after a big season in Tampa only to follow it with a disappointing year in Trenton, but Almonte is younger — still just 22 – and hasn’t shown the same consistently extreme strikeout totals. Almonte is far from a sure thing, but he’s an interesting guy in an organization that’s waiting for a big-league-ready outfield prospect to emerge. Even if he’s nothing more than a switch-hitting fourth outfielder, Almonte could be helpful in these money-saving days.
Associated Press photo
Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
I’m hoping that once the season begins, posters will focus on the season and all the Yankees have going for them and not keep reliving the trade (probably an impossible dream) or worse, spend the whole season talking about what’s going to happen in 2014.
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I’m hoping that once the season begins some posters will realize baseball extends beyond the Yankees, and won’t gripe so much about certain people discussing a player on another team.
—
Oh please, the incessant whining about the Montero trade here is hardly just “discussing a player on another team”.
randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
jerkface-
what percentage will safeco knock down montero’s home run production.
i’m guessing off the top of my head 20 %.
*********
Montero’s ability to hit to rightfield should help him – Safeco will not Adrian Beltre him – if he does not hit as the next Frank Thomas, Albert Pujols, or Frank Robinson – then maybe the fan boys were off and just maybe he is a very good hitter who might be able catch versus a once in a generation hitter as promised by certain posters.
Oh please, the incessant whining about the Montero trade here is hardly just “discussing a player on another team”.
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true. it is part of an agenda by those needing credit for stimulating this blog.
a pat on the back, so to speak.
they’ve been waiting a long time on Zoilo. Be nice if he becomes a late bloomer who was maybe hurt by our guantlet of minor league pitching parks.
I still think Abe is the better prospect of the Almonte’, we will see this year.
He was a great player the second half of the season, he had the longest hitting streak in the entire minors, I believe his slow start was from missing the entire previous season.
mick March 11th, 2012 at 8:48 pm
Oh please, the incessant whining about the Montero trade here is hardly just “discussing a player on another team”.
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true. it is part of an agenda by those needing credit for stimulating this blog.
a pat on the back, so to speak.
==============================
With all do respect….The issue was raised by Villa when he wondered if Montero would have made the team last ST if he raked like he is doing now. Everything spiraled down from there. Hardly a need to be right or to be recognized.
luis with all due respect, you need to drill down a bit.
mick March 11th, 2012 at 8:56 pm
luis with all due respect, you need to drill down a bit.
====================
Please translate
To be perfectly frank, the issue was raised by the post or posts before mine which referenced Montero’s hitting/catching stats for the day and then I reflected on that. it devolved from there. My sincere apologies.
this discussion did not start today, it has been going on from day 1
where anyone can find the energy to constantly whine is beyond me
and is pointless
Villa,
No need to apologize….It was a fair and intelligent question
“the agenda was to trade him, better off letting it go…”
Apparently it was. I think J Al may have even mentioned that he was worried when Montero wasn’t playing winter ball. Someone mentioned it anyway. And others alluded to thinking he was going to be an eventual trading chip.
And he was mentioned in trade talk before.
Smart money should have told people the handwriting was on the wall.
mick, not everyone can adjust to things out of their control.
Apparently you, I, and several others can.
If I reacted to everything that wasn’t of my liking, I probably wouldn’t survive!
***********
Lock, best I can tell you is that I don’t let my disappointment take hold of me. I take hold of it. Been there, done that, extremely unproductive and a total waste of time.
I said numerous times on this forum (it’s there for the checking) that the Yankees would NEVER trade Montero. I said to take it to the bank. I was wrong. They traded him. I allowed myself real tears when it happened. And then I got a grip. I understood why it happened, and my way is always to look at the big picture, not a snapshot in time.
I intend to enjoy the hell out of this season, the way I do every season. I don’t flip out when the Yankees lose and I have total faith in their ability to be there in the postseason. I’m not a micromanager. I don’t sweat the small stuff.
Posters are free to do what they want, to knock themselves out with stress, to jump up and down, to be as negative as they want and to cast a pall on the entire forum if they so choose. I’ve lived through that too.
I’ll just play with the happy posters!
Jesus Montero can slam a revolving door.
jesus is the new joba who was the new phil
Rank these players in terms of who has the best career (exclusively offensive stats):
- Jesus Montero
- Bryce Harper
- Giancarlo (Mike) Stanton
- Mike Trout
- Jason Heyward
- Lars Anderson
By the way, I have to believe that all serious posters will agree that the Yankees being 2nd in runs in the majors last season really showed there was no immediate need for a bat.
I’d also have to believe that all serious posters will agree that with AJ on the trading block, Hughes still an uncertainty from last season, and Nova coming back from whatever happened to him in the postseason, the Yankee rotation wasn’t considered to be a SURE BET.
It’s one thing to be really upset about losing someone like Montero. It’s another to pretend the Yankees didn’t need starting pitching in order to justify some on-going funereal approach to posting on the forum.
I can entirely respect the former. I consider the latter pathetic and selfish.
“Oh please, the incessant whining about the Montero trade here is hardly just “discussing a player on another team”.”
The man has a point.
I’ll go:
Harper, Stanton; Montero; Heyward; Trout; Anderson
# mick March 11th, 2012 at 9:04 pm
he was worried when Montero wasn’t playing winter ball.
===================================
it was obvious.
they could have gotten less
the deals diminished in value as they were proffered.
Eh, montero could definitely hit better than Stanton… just not the power.
I’ll go Montero, Harper, Stanton, Heyward, Trout…..Larson does even compare to this guys. Obviously i am little biased !
luis,
could be that way.
will be fun watching that group of young bats. did I miss anyone who fits in that class of very young elite prospect bats ?
“Larson does even compare to this guys.”
———
I threw Lars Anderson in there as a dig.
But I kinda like the name “Larson” since anybody who bet on that guy being a stud got robbed.
BD,
Miguel Sano? I don’t think he is on the same class but who knows
Z is three inches taller and thirty pounds heavier thant Abe.
Just has a beautiful swing. Very Cano like.
BD,
I know…He was as Hyped as much as Eric Duncan
Bo,
You mean Zoilo has a better swing than Abe or the other way around??…I understand that Abe has a higher ceiling….But what i have seen from Zolio, he might be able to help the team maybe as soon as 2013
Abe is toolsy, and early on he showed good plate disc. It’s been missing as he has muddled up long season, still he is very talented and did show patience at one point. It could still come together for him.
I haven’t seen Abe but at 5’9″ and 170 he’d have to be a holy terror. No, I just saw a couple at bats in passing and went “Woah, who is that guy”. Nice, very nice swing, seems to generate good power. In comparison, the Mesa at bats drive me to moiderize his hitting coaches. The busiest man in the batter’s box I’ve seen in a while. How the hell he can hit anything at all is beyond me.
“Rank these players in terms of who has the best career (exclusively offensive stats):
- Jesus Montero – Bryce Harper – Giancarlo (Mike) Stanton – Mike Trout – Jason Heyward – Lars Anderson”
Strictly talking about the bats….I wouldn’t be shocked if Montero was the best pure hitter of that bunch….some or the other guys may turn out to be better all around players though.
When does Banuelos pitch again….that’s like my favorite part of spring training.
“- Jesus Montero
- Bryce Harper
- Giancarlo (Mike) Stanton
- Mike Trout
- Jason Heyward
- Lars Anderson”
Stanton , Harper , Trout , Heyward , Montero.
Won’t even mention the other guy.
If they stay on schedule, Manny should go Wed.
Hi JAP!,
What did you think of Hughes and Warren today?
I’m totally amazed how easy Banuelos throws to get the results. Just a little jobber.
Bo knows March 11th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
I’m totally amazed how easy Banuelos throws to get the results. Just a little jobber.
++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes…..He may not be the best we’ve got as far ceiling….But his floor is quite high IMHO
“First, i would say that this is the best blog in the world…”
Luis, I would not.
“Lots of very intelligent and knowledgeable people around…If most fans were as good as those you find in this blog, believe me there would be a controversy raging all over….The reason it is not happening is because most fans are casual and don’t follow baseball as close as some others do.”
Again, you strike me as a very reasonable person, but your logic is still self-fulfilling.
This trade has generated almost no controversy within the larger baseball world, including amongst 24 hour news/analysis channels and the ever-need-of-a-controversy internet sports hubs.
It has not. The trade has largely been regarded positively in the Yankees favor.
So this brings us back to your line of argument, the the reason the chatter has persisted for so long because it is such a controversial trade.
But it is not, outside of a small handful of fans. You may regard these small handful of people as intelligent, but that does not a controversy make. You can’t say a small handful of people won’t let go of the topic because it’s so controversial when the same small handful are exclusively responsible for any perceived “controversy”.
That’s again, circular.
Evening.
Just checking in from the hospital ward.
The Yankees are loaded with Pitching.
Phelps, Warren, Mitchell, and Stoneburner all look like viable ML starters.
And Hughes looked very good.
luis March 11th, 2012 at 9:54 pm
Hi JAP!,
What did you think of Hughes and Warren today?
///
Hi luis, I thought Hughes looked pretty crisp. Glad he’s got some oomph on the fb and really driving toward the plate. I’m encouraged. Warren I didn’t get to see all of but looked a little off with the slider today. I know they want him tighter with it and want Ks but when I was watching they weren’t tempted to offer at it. I saw they each got 3 IP, I’m hoping Dellin gets at least a couple on Tuesday.
What’d you think of Warren?
MTU,
Hope that goes well for you. The 3 AAA guys are solid. SB needs a bit more pruning, I’d say, and he lost time, too. Maybe could be a reliever down the road.
stuckey March 11th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
For the record…I regard you as a very intelligent poster, that questions everything, which is good.
About the media….I think there are bigger fish to fry….This would be controversial to the media if the trade was between Pujols and Halladay for example.
If you follow other blogs you will see discussions along the same lines.
I’m sure there are some that want to be recognized, but most like me are not convinced that the trade was the smart thing to do. ( I must add that i have a little biased because he is my fellow countryman ). I think is controversial because there are good arguments on both sides, and unfortunately only time will tell if it was the right thing to do or not. that’s why it is circular, there is no way to settle this issue for good.
My guess is that time cures everything and as the season progresses the talk will die down.
JAP-
I did not mean literally from the hospital ward. Sorry.
I’ve been confined to quarters. Been sick with a relapse of the crawling crud.
I’ve learned to love sleeping and eating because that’s about all I’ve been able to do for several days.
I haven’t been sick in a long time and I forgot how nasty it can be.
I’m done with antibiotics now so I hope I’ve got it licked.
Thanks for the well wishes.
JAP,
Along the same lines of you….Good FB, good CU, but needs to work on his slider, has a lot of downward movement but very little lateral one, which in turn doesn’t fool the hitter
MTU,
I’m glad you’re OK. You might want to get yourself some probiotics and eat some plain yogurt if your antibiotics course is at an end. It will help restore the “good bugs” the drugs kill off, which will help you build your resistance back up.
MTU,
Why you in the hospital?
I think Banuelos has the highest ceiling and floor of the pitching prospects the Yanks have.
MTU,
Hope that you are able to climb in no time!!
Blake-
See my post to JAP above.
I did not mean it literally.
I should be more careful with my words I guess. My apologies.
I really meant that I have still been sick at home.
luis,
yeah I think we’re seeing him trying to get more bite on it but he wasn’t fooling anyone today. This was going on end of last year too but I haven’t seen him live since Trenton days.
JAP-
Acidophilus ? That what ya’ mean.
I’ve heard that antibiotics can screw with your intestinal flora.
thanks for the advice.
Blake,
I agree he has the highest floor…I mean i think he could go north with the team the way i saw him pitch two days ago ( I saw the replay tonight )…But Betances if he cleans up his act he is the best of them all ( including Pineda )
J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
luis,
yeah I think we’re seeing him trying to get more bite on it but he wasn’t fooling anyone today. This was going on end of last year too but I haven’t seen him live since Trenton days.
+++++++++++++++++
In fact the first time i saw the slider i thought it was a CB with 12-6 break, go figure!
Luis-
Thanks. Me too. I really miss being out there.
I tried to start up again a bit too soon and caused myself this relapse.
I’ll need to be more careful next time.
I saw Warren today and I thought pure stuffwise he has more than Hughes.
MTU March 11th, 2012 at 10:23 pm
JAP-
Acidophilus ? That what ya’ mean.
I’ve heard that antibiotics can screw with your intestinal flora.
thanks for the advice.
///
more or less, but try to get one with bifidus and a few other strains, too. I’ve heard acidophilus alone is no match for antibiotics. I’m sure with our hiking history, you’ll be bouncing up in no time.
*your hiking history, that is.
“I saw Warren today and I thought pure stuffwise he has more than Hughes.”
You know, I thought the exact same thing watching him, which surprised me because he was never touted to have the stuff that a young Hughes did. Maybe this version of Hughes is lesser, but Warren’s stuff looked better than advertised.
MTU March 11th, 2012 at 10:27 pm
I saw Warren today and I thought pure stuffwise he has more than Hughes.
==========
WOW! that’s no small praise to Warren or a cheap shot at Hughes!
Could you elaborate?
EA-
I beleive warren touched 93 several times with his heater.
Looked to some nice secondary stuff too.
I haven’t seen enough to know if he commands it well but he looked good to me today.
he hung a breaking pitch that was sent over the wall but that is to be expected this early in ST.
He looked solid otherwise.
Luis-
See my post to EA above.
In fact the first time i saw the slider i thought it was a CB with 12-6 break, go figure!
///
he used to throw a curve but they cancelled it for the slider.With the other fastballs & his change, he just needs to get that 3rd pitch where they want it. I may watch his whole outing today, if I can stay awake.
What are we gonna do with all this pitching talent ?
4h Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@Ginrosge Very. Pineda also had games last year where he pitched at low velocities intentionally and amped it up later in the game.
In reply to Geo
4h Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
No issues, he’s choosing to save his bullets. RT @Ginrosge Could Pineda’s FB issues be mechanical in nature.
Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Scout: Pineda throws harder deeper into games and takes it easy in early innings. That’s probably what he’s doing more of this year.
But Betances if he cleans up his act he is the best of them all ( including Pineda )
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Yup. Just needs to get back to what he did so well in 2010. Wish we could have seen his last outing.
Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@dshankpolitico Exactly, he can start as a catcher in Seattle and if it gets past him it won’t be under the microscope like NY.
In reply to darrin shank
1h Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@dshankpolitico About the same. I’ve asked two Mariners scouts who say he’s not very gifted back there and may never be.
In reply to darrin shank
1h Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
@dshankpolitico I think he’s in a better place to try catching in the majors than NY. Fans would kill him for bad defense.
MTU March 11th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
What are we gonna do with all this pitching talent ?
=========================
Don’t get me started!!
Seriously, some will help the club in the not so distant future, some will be traded, but as Pat M said there is never to much pitching.
MTU March 11th, 2012 at 10:34 pm
What are we gonna do with all this pitching talent ?
////
Goooood question. All that pitching, even with one of the best potential starters in the bullpen.
Our tree is heavy with ripe fruit.
Stuckey,
See??!!…..We started a nice conversation and someone comes and brings back the issue, as you can see it comes from both sides…But more often than not it comes from the pro trade faction
It looks like Mr. Almonte is raising some eyebrows.
Good night JAP, MTU
Enjoy the rest of the evening….
luis,
I understand the Mariners have this tremendous young hitter named Jesus Montero….Keep your eye on that one, he’s going to be a good one!
Did you see El Manquinito go opposite today?
Dulce Suenos Luis.
Time for me to part company too.
Have a good one.
Good night, luis!
MTU, he’s got some Melky Cabrera in him. He was my darkhorse (read: ONLY OF option from within) to maybe give them something to think about for next season. He needs to improve on breaking pitches though.
JAP,
Yeah, I think i’ve heard of him somewhere, not sure about his name….Jesus?….Humm, i’ll check him out.
Yes i did!!….That’s a good sign that he is shortening the stroke, if that happens we are going to be to very happy prospect huggers
Good night my friend.
JAP-
We could use the help.
G’nite luis
MTU, yes indeedy. Feel better, man.
Night, all
MTU,
For the record is not you the one i was referring in my rant.
Luis-
Gracias.
Hasta Manana amigo.
“This trade has generated almost no controversy within the larger baseball world, including amongst 24 hour news/analysis channels and the ever-need-of-a-controversy internet sports hubs.”
“It has not. The trade has largely been regarded positively in the Yankees favor.”
First there is a reason why we are here and not out there. Are you assuming that Luis is talking about controversy with the press in general and not the blog in particular?
“You can’t say a small handful of people won’t let go of the topic because it’s so controversial when the same small handful are exclusively responsible for any perceived “controversy”.
That’s again, circular.”
Again couldn’t this just be Luis’s opinion that the trade has created controversy both within himself and on the blog as a whole. Which it certainly has. Isn’t Randy controversial on this blog with a small amount of posters and not out in the free-world ( I hope not anyway
).
Why can’t this trade be controversial and polarizing for the small amount people who frequent this blog? I for one don’t feel the need for validation from the the sporting world to know how I feel about this trade.
Maybe the real question is why the hell delve so deep into an innocuous statement anyway?
Maybe the real question is why the hell delve so deep into an innocuous statement anyway?
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this
GN
JAP,
I think your Melky comparison for Almonte is a good one. Let’s hope so.
I hope you have a speedy recovery, MTU.
Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Scout: Pineda throws harder deeper into games and takes it easy in early innings. That’s probably what he’s doing more of this year.
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Let me just say this about velocity. I don’t like the idea of Pineda holding back or that his velocity is the product of some kind of overexertion that he wants to go easy on. Holding back on your motion is a good way to get injured. If he has to dial it up physically to sit 95 than that is a bit worse than a player who has that velocity come easy. Guys that throw 92 don’t have to start the game at 88 before dialing it up to 92. Justin Verlander does not need to start the game at 89. Infact he is able to throw 96 within his first 10 pitches. Pineda averaging 95 mph for a game/the year, if he is throwing 89-92 early then that means he has to be well above 95 later in the game to have it average out. I don’t like the idea of him ratcheting it up when his arm is going to be more tired. He should be throwing at what his natural motion allows. Guys like CC, Hughes, Banuelos, Kuroda, Darvish, and others are able to throw around their average velocity. He doesn’t have to be jostling it up to 99 mph, but if his normal motion produces 95 mph then he ought to be throwing that.
Total amateur opinion, but I don’t like the idea of throwing 89 mph.
And I’m going through the gamelogs and I’m seeing a lot of 94+ within the first 20 pitches of the game, so if holding back is throwing 94 mph I’d like to see more of that now. As I said, no need for 97+ that should be his high end when he really needs it, but his motion should be giving him the mid 90s he averages.
Last year it was how Gustavo Molina was going to crush the Yankees chances. Or how the rotation would get killed.
This year it’s that Pineda isn’t throwing mid 90s in early March. Or the Yanks won’t score enough runs.
God this blog us boring and useless in the early months…
April can’t come soon enough.
Do not speak the False Molina’s name here!
Just a thought on Pineda. Are the Yankees dialing him back to prevent the violent motion? Haven’t seen him pitch but is he still falling off as badly this spring? This to me would be a good thing.
Haven’t seen him pitch but is he still falling off as badly this spring?
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Yes.
+1
“First there is a reason why we are here and not out there. Are you assuming that Luis is talking about controversy with the press in general and not the blog in particular?”
Yes, I am.
Context.
“But i think this is one of the most controversial trades that i can recall in the past 20 years, so i don’t think is going away any time soon.”
Do I need to point which part of that statement makes it very unlikely he was referring to THIS forum specifically and essentially invalidates the premise of your reply, Tar.
What the heck .. it was “in the past 20 years” part.
“Maybe the real question is why the hell delve so deep into an innocuous statement anyway?”
Because why this “dialogue” (to be generous) continues to repeat itself verbatim day after day (and often several times a day) has now become a very relevant meta topic within the forum.
Someone rationalizing the repetition as due to the historic level of “controversy” the topic has generated is self-serving.
J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
“this”
This what?
You don’t know what Tar is referring to, you don’t read that far down in my posts, remember?
Stuckey, what did you think of Warren and Hughes today?
Well then
This concludes my effort at rationale for the dropoff in velocity. The illumination apogee was brief. iow The light came on and went off. Pffft. Back to grope think.
“I think is controversial because there are good arguments on both sides”
I think there probably are.
“He’s going to be great, I just know it and you just wait and see” isn’t one of them, and that is largely the foundation of much of the arguments I’ve seen here.
“and unfortunately only time will tell if it was the right thing to do or not. that’s why it is circular, there is no way to settle this issue for good.”
THIS I do agree with, which is EXACTLY why people are arguing any organic, genuine exchange on the matter perished weeks ago. This has been repetition for repetition sakes for some time.
YM, didn’t get to see that game.
Not repetition for repetition’s sake, but an organic genuine exchange for probably most of us. However, I would rather talk baseball.
My name is YF, not YM. Freudian slip?
“Not repetition for repetition’s sake, but an organic genuine exchange for probably most of us.”
Has there been anything new added to the dialogue lately?
stuckey, have you added anything new to the dialogue lately?
JF, did you see Warren pitch? His FB and changeup were good, his slider was in and out. His occasional CB was pretty bad.
Catching up on the performances now. Watched the games today on my phone and quality was butts. I’m checking out Hughes & warren now.
70 mph curve Hughes why?
This velocity drop with Pineda is a huge red flag IMO. The fact that Cash and Girardi have been talking about it on numerous occasions tells you they are definitely concerned. Just look back to where he was last year compared to this year. People are fooling themselves on here if they think everything is fine.
Thought Hughes’ command was much better. Good to see him throwing changeups even when he was behind in the count. Didn’t throw them for strikes or get swings, but at least he was throwing them. He also faced a lot of lefties and did well against them.
I liked the way Warren mixed up his pitches. He usually works very fast, and gets in a good rhythm. His breaking stuff can be fringy, but he did throw some nice sliders today. It is still an erratic pitch for him though.
Yeah, he is back to throwing the loopy curve, but he did throw some around 75-6 (better than 70). Hopefully, we see more power curves/low 80′s velo going forward.
Stuckey,
Self serving?….When i speak of intelligent posters i don’t include myself as one of them.
Exaggerating?….. Do you recall another trade that has generated so much fuss in this blog?..Oh yeah the 20 year thing, the blog didn’t exist right?….I’m willing to bet that if blogs existed decades ago i’m sure no other trade would have meant as much as this one, in a community like this one.
The thing with you, is that you are always looking for the fifth leg of the cat….News flash, there isn’t a fifth leg, it’s only the tail!!.
Oh i forgot,,, i wanted to be polite, but you said that this wasn’t the best blog…Then what are you doing here if we are so beneath you?….Remind me again who is self serving?. I do believe it, not because it makes me feel more important, but because i have the chance to exchange opinions with other people that share my love for the Yankees and probably know a little bit more that i do
I always try to be respectful to other posters, especially when i don’t agree with them, because the truth is a very relative thing and they are as entitled to their opinions as i am.
If you have followed the discussion, you know that there is more to “I know best, wait and see” arguments from both sides. That portrayal that you made is unfair.
By the way, i don’t wait for the sporting world to validate my point of views either.
Good night
No, the huge red flag will be when Cashman bitterly complains that the Mariners abused Pineda after the conference call with Dr. Andrews.
Hughes fastball atleast seems to be about where it was in 2010.
Yes, Hughes’ fastball was fine. Sat 91-93 and hit 94 once.
We’ll see how Pineda looks in the televised game on Thursday.
Hughes fastball was really getting in on the hitters and he got a lot of ground outs, now THAT I’d like to see him carry into the regular season.
But he really needs to get a better curve, though at this point I think its just out of his reach to throw one.
I hated the trade a great deal but of course I am rooting like hell for Pineda to reach number 2 status but the fact remains that Cash has only had 1 trade or free agent signing on the pitching side that has worked out and that was Mussina.
“…the fact remains that Cash has only had 1 trade or free agent signing on the pitching side that has worked out and that was Mussina.”
Just Mussina? Are you sure?
Yeah, Hughes pitched inside a lot and the DP on Valencia was nice. The curve needs to be better, but I am not giving up on it yet. Think he’ll improve on it.
Um, C.C.
Oops how could I forget CC. Ok so he has brought 2 pitchers over that have worked out in over 10 years of being GM
Jerkface, when you said you thought a better curve was “just out of his reach…”, did you mean barely out of his reach, as in close and attainable, or simply out of his reach, as in far and unattainable?
Luis, You are infinitely polite, even more than some deserve. Buenas noches.
Nick, I think JF meant the latter. Doesn’t mean it is true though. Let’s let Phil get full arm strength first.
I will certainly let Phil get full arm strength before I do anything rash, but I’d like to get a better handle on Jerkface’s POV before I do whatever it is I do prior to the back stabbing.
Have at it, Nick. I am out of here. Have a good night.
Simply out of his reach, as in far and unattainable. He said last year he wanted to work on throwing his curve harder, but if anything its gotten slower. It needs to be more 77-81 and less 70-75. If I recall he went back to his non-spike grip, but the velocity has remained the same from when he was using the spike grip. His curve needs to elicit swings and swings & misses from hitters, which at its current speed/movement I just don’t see that happening.
His fastball, when healthy, is so good that an average offspeed pitch should complement it enough, but in Hughes case the curve still ends up not getting expected results.
He needs a pitch that is in the 16%-20% whiff rate range, and in 2010 his best pitch for whiff rate was his cutter @ 12%. The curve was only at 6%, and guys rarely offered at it.
A slider or a splitter might be a better choice for him.
Thanks, that’s what I was afraid you meant. Now you’d better watch your back.
you have determined to go out and just take the Verena for a real 3 minute test drive with no holds barred,,,,,,run the beutify Buick Verrona throught the passes,,,,
Got through Warren’s innings, I liked how he mixed stuff up and attacked the zone with his FB but he definitely threw some janky offspeed stuff.
Et tu, Nick in SF?
This was the unkindest cut of all.
Last spring training he changed the grip on his cutter and was going to use it as a slider, like the one Nova developed, and I think he struck out a bunch of blue jays with the pitch in spring training.
I wonder where that has gone. Nova’s has been a pretty big success.
My encyclopedic knowledge of Phil Hughes is of course, accurate.
Phil Hughes had seven strikeouts tonight, and the way he remembers it, all but one came on a modified version of his cutter. Disappointed in the pitch this spring, Hughes tweaked his cutter grip and turned the pitch into more of a slider, something slightly slower and bigger.
“It’s probably technically more slider now,” Hughes said. “But I’ll still call it a cutter because I don’t want to get in the mode of getting around it and lazy with it. If I just tell myself it’s a cutter, I’ll throw it with conviction.”
Hughes threw a slider when he was younger, including his early years in the Yankees minor league system, but he eventually dumped the pitch and picked up the cutter. When the cutter disappointed him again last week, Hughes had Larry Rothschild work with him on finding a new cutter/slider grip. He tried a few slight modifications, found one he liked and used the pitched 25 to 30 times tonight. He threw it more than either his curveball or changeup.
“It’s bigger so I assume it has to lose a little velocity to get that,” he said. “I don’t think it’s something that’s slow enough that they recognize it… I have to give it my fastball arm speed and not get lazy with it. If I do that, I don’t think it will fall in the same mode I was when I was 16 years old throwing my slider, because I didn’t really know what I was doing (back then).”
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....is-cutter/
For me, everything Phil did with Larry Rothschild last year is tainted by Phil’s fatness, bad arm mojo, and general lingering odor of suck.
So this year will surely be better. Or at least less fat.
So this year will surely be better. Or at least less fat.
–
Hughes was above average and at times dominant with a pretty bad curve. As long as he has the fastball, which appears to be back, the yankees could do much worse for a 5th starter. Like a fat phil hughes.
When you stab phil hughes in the back, it is really hard to miss (because he is so fat you see)
Not anymore. But it will still be hard for him to get away because he can’t stop tweeting.
Joba, even easier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImZTwYwCug
An article study on injuries to the arms of adolescent pitchers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03.....ms.html?hp
Some morning predictions:
1) Hughes will have a lower ERA and win more games this year than Pineda – both will be good.
Hughes – 17-7 with a 3.85 ERA
Pineda – 15-8 with a 4.05 ERA
2) Banuelos will replace Kuroda in the rotation after this season and be a star pitcher in their rotation from then on, but Betances will hit a ceiling of being a sometimes good, sometimes mediocre middle reliever (I see him being a Graham Lloyd type of reliever).
3) Nova will regress to being the #5 starter in this rotation
4) Joba will return to dominance and be a reliable late innings guy. After this season I think Soriano will opt out and leave, Robertson will be the closer and Joba will become the lockdown late innings guy.
3) Nova will regress to being the #5 starter in this rotation
i don’t see that happening unless the rotation is so good he’s bumped down to the five hole
that wouldn’t be a bad thing
the yankees would roll
I predict that in the year 2134, people will forget that Jeus Montero was ever a Yankee. However, at least one person will communicate from the grave to whine about the trade.
***Jesus***
3) Nova will regress to being the #5 starter in this rotation
i don’t see that happening unless the rotation is so good he’s bumped down to the five hole
that wouldn’t be a bad thing
the yankees would roll
————————————————-
I think he ends up as a back of the rotation guy both because he will regress a little bit and because the rest of the rotation will jump ahead of him in quality. I see the 2013 rotation as CC, Pineda, Hughes, Banuelos and Nova. If those 5 live up to their potential (CC excluded – he’s already lived up to it) then that starting 5 could be a top 3 or 4 rotation in all of baseball. If they are all playing well, Cain and Hamels will have one fewer bidder. (speaking of which, I think they are quite likely to pass on them to get under the cap in 2014, and then bid for Verlander that off season).
“They have an obligation to protect these 12-year-old kids and instead, they’re saying, ‘There’s no scientific evidence curveballs cause damage, so go ahead, kids, just keep throwing them,’ ” Kremchek said. “It makes me sick to my stomach to watch the Little League World Series and see 12-year-olds throwing curve after curve”
gb7-
interesting article .
i predict in obituary cashman’s obituary it will say ” HE TRADED JESUS MONTERO”
kind of like ” MERCLE’S BONER DIES”
” I see the 2013 rotation as CC, Pineda, Hughes, Banuelos and Nova.”
so you see pineda and hughes both having very good change ups.
interesting.
GreenBeret7 March 12th, 2012 at 6:44 am
I predict that in the year 2134, people will forget that Jeus Montero was ever a Yankee. However, at least one person will communicate from the grave to whine about the trade.
—————————————————————————-
And randy will still be here stirring the pot.
:
randy l. March 12th, 2012 at 7:17 am
” I see the 2013 rotation as CC, Pineda, Hughes, Banuelos and Nova.”
so you see pineda and hughes both having very good change ups.
interesting.
———————————-
Pineda only needs a mediocre change up to be effective. His first two pitches are dominant enough that the change up only need to keep guys honest and keep people off balance.
Hughes needs his cutter to work and he can use FB, CB, cutter and a mediocre change up to be a solid #3.
But I think Pineda will have an effective change up (i.e., better than just mediocre) since he appears to have the natural talent and will to extend his repertoire, especially given his age. I think Hughes just needs to stay in top shape to be the player he was a few years ago, before injuries and lack of conditioning diminished his effectiveness.
“And randy will still be here stirring the pot”
just my luck that nurse karloff will have gb 7′s. pat m’s, and my head up on a shelf ,kind of like ted williams and we’ll be debating “PITCHING WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS”.
gbt will be pissed because he ‘ll have no arms to shoot me with his blunderbuss.
pat m will be happy because he has no knees that kill him and nurse karloff turns his head out doors when the pool girls come
“Pineda only needs a mediocre change up to be effective”
this is a pineda myth.
i’ll just call it a PYTH for short.
pineda already had a mediocre change up last year and he got hammered the second half of the year once hitters had the book on him.
if hitters lay off the sliders that are out of the zone, pineda has problem. hitters will make that adjustment.
there are a lot of PYTH’s.
another is that he touches 97mph a lot.
pat m will be happy because he has no knees that kill him and nurse karloff turns his head out doors when the pool girls come
———————————————————
No, she’ll be his pool girl in a pink bikini.
I also saw GB7 sell his blunderbuss on one of the pawn shows.
randy
if hitters lay off the sliders that are out of the zone, pineda has problem. hitters will make that adjustment.
————————————————————————————————
You mean the way they did with Joba?
I think its possible that Banuelos is the Yankees best pitcher in 3-4 years ….now it may not happen …..but I think people undersell his upside…..lefties that throw 95 with twp plus secondary offerings are usually really good if they can command the ball….and that’s the if right now with Manny…..if his command comes around he’s going to be really good.
For example…Gio Gonzalez throws 95 and has a great curveball…..walks the world and still puts up 3 ERAs…..
“But I think Pineda will have an effective change up (i.e., better than just mediocre) since he appears to have the natural talent and will to extend his repertoire, especially given his age”
given how much CC talked about working on his tow seamer and change up yesterday, why aren’t the yankees having pineda add a two seamer to his pitching arsenal ?
you’d think the the arm side run on the two seamer and the arm side run that’s nice on a change up would kind of work together which might be why CC was working on them together.
if hitters lay off the sliders that are out of the zone, pineda has problem. hitters will make that adjustment.
————————————————————————————————
You can say that about any pitcher, though. If hitters lay off the pitches just off the plate, all pitchers, including Verlander, Kershaw, Lincecum, Strassburg and Hernandez will all become mediocre.
“You can say that about any pitcher, though. If hitters lay off the pitches just off the plate, all pitchers, including Verlander, Kershaw, Lincecum, Strassburg and Hernandez will all become mediocre.”
yes , wang had that problem too when his sinker was really sinking.
the more pitches a pitcher has the harder it is to recognize a pitch.
a hitter almost has to be guessing a pitch is coming to lay off a pitch that dives out of the zone.
with two pitches a guess is just 50/50.
with four pitches, it’s pretty hard to guess effectively.
i would have pineda throw two kinds of fastball, the slider, and then the change if he can get at least an average one.
if he can’t get at least an average change, they should try the splitter.
if they can get a good change or splitter, then it’s off to be the closer with two plus pitches.
gb7-
you fall into your grits?
i’d call 911, but i don’t want them to wake up killer with the sirens.
randy
if they can get a good change or splitter, then it’s off to be the closer with two plus pitches.
—————————————————————————–
Is that where A.J. should be?
He’s earned alot of money being a two pitch pitcher.
Once again Montero dominates. The kid has motivation to succeed. Pineda is going to wallow in a world of self doubt as the hyper critical fans wear away at his Seattle thin skin. Montero has been raised in the lion’s den. He is going to make the NYY look like abject dopes for trading him. Pineda folded like a cheap camera in the second half of 2011. At best, he’s a number five pitcher and at worst he goes to the bullpen. AIMO.
“He’s earned alot of money being a two pitch pitcher.”
actually he’s made a lot of money in the last few years.
he hasn’t earned a lot of money in the last few years.
“At best, he’s a number five pitcher and at worst he goes to the bullpen. ”
at best he’s an ace
it’s one possible scenario.
the debate is the over how high the percentage chance that he has of doing it.
Morning folks, hope you all had a relaxing weekend..
Random thought of the morning: I can’t handle Phil Mushnick. Ever.
“At best, he’s a number five pitcher and at worst he goes to the bullpen. AIMO.”
And your rationale for this statement is based off a couple innings pitched two weeks into spring training? You are seriously looking for attention.
at the age of 23, I figure that Pineda has at least another year before he’s washed up.
He has time to learn a 4th pitch. The change-up needs some work, but, he’ll be fine, regardless of what Melky Cabrera’s stalker/boyfriend, aka the board idiot seems to think.
These numbers are arbitrary….but if Pineda stays healthy I think his floor is a 3…..and his ceiling is definitely a 1….that’s why they made the trade…..he has a potential #1 arm and has shown #1 command. Whether he becomes one will likely be determined by health….the rounding out of his arsenal….and by just how smart a pitcher he becomes……
Shame Spencer March 12th, 2012 at 8:48 am
Morning folks, hope you all had a relaxing weekend..
Random thought of the morning: I can’t handle Phil Mushnick. Ever.
—————————————————————————–
This is no place for random thought.
It interrupts the flow of rational thought.
Melkmanisinhotlanta March 12th, 2012 at 8:30 am
Once again Montero dominates. The kid has motivation to succeed. Pineda is going to wallow in a world of self doubt as the hyper critical fans wear away at his Seattle thin skin. Montero has been raised in the lion’s den. He is going to make the NYY look like abject dopes for trading him. Pineda folded like a cheap camera in the second half of 2011. At best, he’s a number five pitcher and at worst he goes to the bullpen. AIMO.
————-
Do you think anyone takes you seriously?
“And your rationale for this statement is based off a couple innings pitched two weeks into spring training?”
Nah his rationale is that he’s trolling.
“Whether he becomes one will likely be determined by health….the rounding out of his arsenal….and by just how smart a pitcher he becomes……”
Hoping CC helps him along with all of the above (aside from health I suppose..no Cap n’ Crunch for Michael).
“I can’t handle Phil Mushnick. Ever.”
True story.
I was cleaning out my folks attic and in one of the boxes there was an old NY Post, which was used for cushioning. I flipped through it and read an article written by Michael Kay-he’s a better writer than broadcaster, but that’s neither her nor there.
There was also a piece by Phil Mushnick. This paper was from the 80s, but it could have been written yesterday. Same tired anger, same pompous jerk, same rotten column. It made me irrationally pissed off. Not at what he wrote, but at the fact that he’s been doing the same thing for 25 years. Seriously.
MaineYankee March 12th, 2012 at 8:54 am
Shame Spencer March 12th, 2012 at 8:48 am
Morning folks, hope you all had a relaxing weekend..
Random thought of the morning: I can’t handle Phil Mushnick. Ever.
—————————————————————————–
This is no place for random thought.
It interrupts the flow of rational thought.
——————-
LOL, you’re totally right Maine, I dunno what I was thinking!
I’ll demerit myself now.
Tom – That’s crazy and not surprising. His columns are essentially useless and would be better suited as couch cushioning.
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