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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Rivera laughs off retirement question

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 11, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Mariano Rivera made his first spring training appearance this afternoon, a typically impressive 1-2-3 inning that began and ended with massive ovations from the crowd.

The same feeling, the same situation,” Rivera said. “Just trying to get people out and go home.”

It was mentioned that some of those cheers might have been because the crowd expects Rivera to retire at the end of the season, making this Rivera’s last first spring outing. Rivera laughed and walked away, refusing to dive into the retirement conversation.

“Guys,” he said, smiling and shaking his head. “I’ve got to go.”

Associated Press photo

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99 Responses to “Rivera laughs off retirement question”

  1. yankee21 March 11th, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    What a class act. He is a legend in his own time.

    What more can you ask from a professional athlete than what Mo has provided in his time.
    Performance, accountability, and humility. And a guy who still loves the game.

    What a model.

  2. PacoDooley March 11th, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Question? Seems like a foregone conclusion that he will be done after this season. He’s been involved in most of my adult memories of this team (including my worst memories, especially 2001) – he will be missed!

  3. yankee21 March 11th, 2012 at 4:18 pm

    I want Mo to retire whenever he is ready. I don’t think any of legion of fans will ever be ready.

  4. yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    On Hughes:

    “I thought he had everything today,” Yankees manager Joe Girardi said of Hughes. “I thought his fastball location was much better; I thought he threw some good changeups. Pleased, very pleased.”

    “I was happy — it seemed like my fastball was good,” Hughes said. “It was jumping on hitters a little bit, just based on the swings I was getting.”

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

  5. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 4:36 pm

    I’ll never be ok with Mo retiring…

    :(

  6. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    I wonder why Mo even brought it up before he was ready to announce his intentions.

    A big year from Hughes (increased velo, and the ability to maintain it, command of his FB, using three pitchers, getting LH hitters out) would be about as important as seeing Pineda flourish.

  7. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    so montero caught most of a game yesterday with seattle pitchers only giving up a run and five hits.

    … and montero got two doubles and three rbis

    arizona must have lousy scouting.

    what else explains how could they not have exploited montero’s catching weakness.

  8. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    “A big year from Hughes (increased velo, and the ability to maintain it, command of his FB, using three pitchers, getting LH hitters out) would be about as important as seeing Pineda flourish.”

    it doesn’t matter where the wins come from as long as they come.

  9. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    “it doesn’t matter where the wins come from as long as they come.”

    For the team to do well, yes, but for assembling a top rotation going forward, you’d rather have building blocks lead you there instead of say, Kuroda and Garcia, who are not longer term solutions.

  10. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    “… and montero got two doubles and three rbis”

    I wish I could filter out his name this season (not to censor anyone, only to preserve my optimism about the Yankees), because I think this trade is going to suck ridiculously hard.

  11. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    “I wish I could filter out his name this season (not to censor anyone, only to preserve my optimism about the Yankees), because I think this trade is going to suck ridiculously hard.”

    rich in nj-

    it’s so bad it’s almost funny.

    it used to be really funny to me when livan would roll out the victories when everyone was saying i was stupid saying the yankees should have gotten him.

    with montero it’s going to be funnier by a quantum leap except it’ll be mixed with pain that he’s not a yankee.

    i seriously think the kid is going to catch.

    a lot of people are going to have to reevaluate their trust of yankee evaluators.

  12. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    I just read Teale is in camp as of Thursday, so there should be more comprehensive info on the younger players.

    Rich, nice oppo field arrow shot into right today by El Manquinito, if that make you feel better.

    Good outing for Hughes, something to build on. Warren went 3, hoping Dellin gets at least two on Tuesday.

  13. Rice Pudding Flavoured Relief Pitcher March 11th, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    Hopefully Mo taught Montero the cutter before young Pujols was traded to Seattle.

    … Oh wait

  14. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    Rich – One way you can try to make yourself feel better about it is realizing that whatever happens in Seattle stays in Seattle. No way to say the same thing was going to happen in the Bronx. And vice versa for every trade ever made.

    Nothing Montero does is going to surprise me because I am expecting it however. Good for him and I want him to be tremendous because I believe that’s who he’s going to be.

    It won’t remove my Yankee enjoyment one whit. I look forward, not backward.

    *****************

    Sometimes I want to smack reporters upside the head. I personally don’t believe this is Mo’s last season. I personally also think that was one hell of a dumb question/comment by whomever it was who mentioned it. It’s almost demeaning, suggesting that Mariano isn’t worthy of the applause ordinarily. He is perfection. He is beloved. Crowds adore him and they aren’t afraid to show it.

  15. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    Again – I have to wonder, if Montero hit like this last spring, he’d have made the team out of ST.

  16. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    i seriously think the kid is going to catch.

    a lot of people are going to have to reevaluate their trust of yankee evaluators.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    QFT

  17. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    Villa,

    You don’t move a player of that pedigree based on how he hit in ST at age 21. People also forget they told him to not to concern himself about hitting, to focus on catching. They don’t think he can catch, and they want to use the DH as a rest home. That’s what it comes down to. They are thrilled that they have this “flexibility” with the DH spot. Thrilled. Thrilled.

  18. muwarriorsfan March 11th, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    How is there not a “Montero Watch” this season? The trade was a huge gamble for both sides and it will be fascinating to see how it plays out. IMO, it’s just too rare to find the kind of bat speed Montero possesses and then trade him.

    And, yes, if Montero had hit like this last year in spring training, you have to believe he makes the team.

  19. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    Flexibility for guys opposed to DHing

  20. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    That defies their own admitted logic, and their use of him. They already knew he could hit, they weren’t convinced he could catch.

  21. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Montero is supposed to be able to hit, right? But last spring, when he could have forced the Yankees’ hand, he didn’t. That’s a fact. At that particular point in time, when Cervelli went down, Montero had his fate in his own hands and he didn’t hit – the one thing that is supposed to be unquestionable about him.

    He’s not infallible.

    And unlike the conspiracy theorists here, I believe if Pineda was not available, Montero would have been Yankees’ DH this season, and they’d have figured out the DH rotation from that point. Because like it or not you have ARod and Jeter on this team, and they will need DH days, as will Tex and Cano.

  22. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    muwarriorsfan March 11th, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    How is there not a “Montero Watch” this season? The trade was a huge gamble for both sides and it will be fascinating to see how it plays out. IMO, it’s just too rare to find the kind of bat speed Montero possesses and then trade him.

    And, yes, if Montero had hit like this last year in spring training, you have to believe he makes the team.

    +++++++++++++++++++

    Bat speed?…..Add to that, plate coverage, plate approach, no holes swing…On top of that he will catch, and has a demeanor way past his 22 years.

  23. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Oh, and the reason he had a real shot at making the club? Girardi was very impressed with the improvement in his catching.

  24. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Who beated him in spring training? Gustavo Molina?….They just didn’t think that he could catch…And from there all the logic of the trade.

  25. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    And again, and I’ve said it about every trade ever made, I am never foolish enough to transfer any player performance from one team to another. If it were that simple, Edgar Renterria would have been a star in beantown.

  26. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Do guys like Tex and Cano need to DH. They can just get the full day off

  27. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Oh, and the reason he had a real shot at making the club? Girardi was very impressed with the improvement in his catching.

    ========================

    That was spin, If they believe he could catch he would be a Yankee today.

  28. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    And once there was a real chance, not only did his hitting suffer, but his catching started to suffer too. He got out of himself because he got anxious – which is fine, it’s normal, he’s a kid.

    But enough of this crap about the Yankees never ever seeing Montero as a catcher. And enough of the – they were never gonna keep him stuff. Sure, he wasn’t an untouchable and he was their best trade chip if they could get the right player for him.

    I remember clear as day Girardi GLOWING about Montero’s catching last spring, and talking out loud about how they could use him, how they’d work him in – talking about how the Giants worked in Posey. He was thrilled with Montero.

    But go ahead with the conspiracy theories and the selective amnesia.

  29. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    “Again – I have to wonder, if Montero hit like this last spring, he’d have made the team out of ST.”

    i’m not sure anything montero did would have changed yankee management perception of him because he went out and had an incredible september under in end of the season pressure, and it made zero impact on yankee brass.

  30. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:09 pm

    Again – I have to wonder, if Montero hit like this last spring, he’d have made the team out of ST.

    I just have to comment on this and something else that pissed me off all last season, and that is this notion that Montero was terrible last spring training.

    He hit 250, he did that without taking any extra batting practice the first few weeks, because the Yankees told him they wanted him to only think about defense, his offense did not matter to them, yet all these reporters kept on stating well he did not hit in spring training?

    By the way the great Thurman MunsonJR AKA(Martin) hit the same as Montero, only he actually got to you know do the work on his hitting, then again he outhit his regular season work.

    Once more Montero did not have a bad spring, the Yankees made excuses and the sheep that are the reporters, just repeated what was said, instead of looking deeper at the facts.

    Oh and his defense was not a problem either, he was good, all spring until the Dellin game, where Dellin was crazy wild, so yeah that game was not good, so I guess his 250 average and the fact that he had a problem with Dellin, and I think Brackman also pitched that game, meant he has a terrible spring training.

    I will be rooting like crazy for Pineda, I like him, I think talent wise the trade was fair, but very very stupid because of the many issues the Yankees roster has for now and their future in terms of productive middle of the order talent.

    Montero is going to be a superstar with the bat, for those who do not see it, I say, you don’t understand hitting, and that’s okay, but when it happens, and it will, don’t act all shocked.

  31. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Oh, and the reason he had a real shot at making the club? Girardi was very impressed with the improvement in his catching.

    But they said his hitting was not going to have any bearing on him making the team, so this sounds dubious. He hit in every spring training before last year. Hit .300 in the final 10 games of spring training. Opened AAA hitting .400 for the first 2 weeks. If they were really like, “Nah this guy needs to be in AAA learning how to hit’ after his entire minor league career, previous spring trainings, and the 2nd half of his time in AAA in 2010 then I think the Yankees management is quite dumb.

    Easiest answer is they did not like his catching despite Cashman saying he was as good as a number of catchers in the majors post 2009, everyone saying he improved pre-2011, etc.

  32. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
    Montero is supposed to be able to hit, right? But last spring, when he could have forced the Yankees’ hand, he didn’t. That’s a fact. At that particular point in time, when Cervelli went down, Montero had his fate in his own hands and he didn’t hit – the one thing that is supposed to be unquestionable about him.

    He’s not infallible.

    And unlike the conspiracy theorists here, I believe if Pineda was not available, Montero would have been Yankees’ DH this season, and they’d have figured out the DH rotation from that point. Because like it or not you have ARod and Jeter on this team, and they will need DH days, as will Tex and Cano.
    ///

    Montero hit .328/.406/.590 when he was finally promoted. By your logic, last ST’s offense caused him to not make the team and was some kind of determining death knell on his Yankee career.

    That does not make sense, since they were determined he would catch or bust for them. How would he have made the team, when they were terrified to put him behind the plate? Do you think they were going to use him as a DH last year? It was always catching, catching, catching. They are smart enough to know that his hitting is not an up in the air proposition. Which, in my book, makes them doubly stupid, but that’s another story.

  33. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    No. If AJ Burnett had been even close to the pitcher he was supposed to be, or if Phil Hughes didn’t have an utterly horrendous year last season, Montero would be on the team today.

  34. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Do guys like Tex and Cano need to DH. They can just get the full day off

    =====================

    The DH is probably reserved for Arod and Jeter going forward

  35. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    It was not a demeaning death knell on his career.

    Nothing anyone says that even slightly suggests that Montero isn’t perfect is anathema to you.

  36. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Sorry I opened the can of worms everyone else.

    Have a good night.

  37. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Gerardo Concepcion got a major league deal from the Cubs. Interesting. Seeing as how the total deal is only worth 6 million. Why not do a minor league deal? Probably because the player wanted a major league deal. Soler is going to get one as well.

  38. mick March 11th, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    I remember clear as day Girardi GLOWING about Montero’s catching last spring, and talking out loud about how they could use him, how they’d work him in – talking about how the Giants worked in Posey. He was thrilled with Montero.
    ==============================
    All part of the trade hype.
    Girardi didn’t like him for some reason.
    He was always on the block.
    Let’s just hope Pineda doesn’t succumb to the pressure of NY esp if Montero rakes.
    If he doesn’t we could have a good one.

  39. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    But enough of this crap about the Yankees never ever seeing Montero as a catcher. And enough of the – they were never gonna keep him stuff

    —————–

    They barely let him catch in September and tried to trade him over the past few yrs. They didn’t really believe in him simple as that.

  40. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
    And again, and I’ve said it about every trade ever made, I am never foolish enough to transfer any player performance from one team to another. If it were that simple, Edgar Renterria would have been a star in beantown.
    ////

    Renteria, like Jeter, did not care for the Fenway infield grass. It played with his head, and they just didn’t think he was “Sox material.” I guess because he was a short stop who could actually hit.

  41. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    jerkface, don’t you think that having Romine right there automatically set up a competition. It was almost a foregone conclusion that one was going to stay and one was going to go IMO. And I may as well run as soon as I say this – in fact I am going to because I’m going out – but from all appearances Romine proved to be the better defensive catcher, and that seemed to seal the fate.

    Personally I would want the better defensive catcher behind the dish.

    Also, do you think that if Hughes and AJ had great seasons last year and for some reason the Yankees didn’t feel the need to bring in any starting pitching, do you think it’s possible that Montero would have still been here?

    I realize that this is all opinion and only the Yanks know the real answers to all of this, but I’m curious to know what you think.

  42. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Montero is supposed to be able to hit, right? But last spring, when he could have forced the Yankees’ hand, he didn’t. That’s a fact. At that particular point in time, when Cervelli went down, Montero had his fate in his own hands and he didn’t hit – the one thing that is supposed to be unquestionable about him.

    He’s not infallible.`

    You ought to talk to Girardi and the coaches who told him to not worry about hitting, that he should not be taking any extra bp, that they knew he could hit, they only wanted him to think about catching, this theory you all sprouting led by the clueless writers as well, is total and pure bs.

    I guess hitting 250 is what like 080 to the beat writers and yourself.

    The Yankees made a terrible mistake not having him on their roster all of last season, if they did, this trade never happens, even with his Sept and post season, they still don’t know the monster he is going to be.

  43. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    No. If AJ Burnett had been even close to the pitcher he was supposed to be, or if Phil Hughes didn’t have an utterly horrendous year last season, Montero would be on the team today.

    ————

    You mean if Cashman was better at developing pitching Montero would still be here.

  44. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    “Renteria, like Jeter, did not care for the Fenway infield grass. It played with his head, and they just didn’t think he was “Sox material.” I guess because he was a short stop who could actually hit.”

    :) +

  45. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    But enough of this crap about the Yankees never ever seeing Montero as a catcher. And enough of the – they were never gonna keep him stuff

    —————–

    They barely let him catch in September and tried to trade him over the past few yrs. They didn’t really believe in him simple as that.

    =============================

    Spot on….If this is not the starting point of their l flawed logic to trade him, then they even dumber than i thought

  46. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    “Nothing anyone says that even slightly suggests that Montero isn’t perfect is anathema to you.”

    “anathema originally meant something lifted up as an offering to the gods; it later evolved to mean: to be formally set apart;; banished, exiled, excommunicated; …”

    soon it’s going to be the known as the montero national anathema.

  47. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
    It was not a demeaning death knell on his career.

    Nothing anyone says that even slightly suggests that Montero isn’t perfect is anathema to you.
    ///

    Huh? I said you were suggesting his hitting in ST last year somehow determined his fate…isn’t that what you wanted us to infer? As for your last comment, that’s some weird non sequitur so I’ll just leave it alone. Your theory isn’t sound, that’s all.

  48. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Sorry I opened the can of worms everyone else.

    Have a good night

    No don’t leave I want you or one Chad or one of these other beat guys who perpetrate this lie about Montero’s spring to refute the basic facts of the situation, if you can’t, then admit it.

  49. Tar March 11th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Jason22

    That was a good post 5:22. So why do you think he got traded? If there is anybody on this planet who knows how good a hitter he is, it would be the Yankees. Yet they traded him….weird. I have my theories, what’s your guess.

  50. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    No.

    I mean if AJ could be consistent, and if Hughes didn’t keep getting injured or had taken his off-season conditioning seriously.

    But I forgot – this is no longer the blog for fans of the Yankees. it is the place to go to log your complaints about how the Yankees run their organization from top to bottom.

  51. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    jerkface, don’t you think that having Romine right there automatically set up a competition. It was almost a foregone conclusion that one was going to stay and one was going to go IMO. And I may as well run as soon as I say this – in fact I am going to because I’m going out – but from all appearances Romine proved to be the better defensive catcher, and that seemed to seal the fate.

    Personally I would want the better defensive catcher behind the dish.

    Also, do you think that if Hughes and AJ had great seasons last year and for some reason the Yankees didn’t feel the need to bring in any starting pitching, do you think it’s possible that Montero would have still been here?

    I realize that this is all opinion and only the Yanks know the real answers to all of this, but I’m curious to know what you think.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Trisha,

    Sorry to cut in….But you could have had a tandem of Montero/Romine in time

  52. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    “You mean if Cashman was better at developing pitching Montero would still be here.”

    cashman has learned from his mistakes.

    he’s now studying fan graphs to get info about yankee pitchers like pineda so i think it’s safe to say he’s turned a new leaf.

  53. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    LOFL, Randy.

    Jason22, yeah, I mean I remember all that. Anyone is free to call it up if they don’t believe it.

  54. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    Exactly Luis

  55. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    I think a lot of things conspired against Montero’s being here right now.

    But I’m don’t buy into the conspiracy here. Sorry.

    Wish he was here myself, hence the wondering what could have been had he hit last spring like he is now.

  56. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    “You mean if Cashman was better at developing pitching Montero would still be here.”

    cashman has learned from his mistakes.

    he’s now studying fan graphs to get info about yankee pitchers like pineda so i think it’s safe to say he’s turned a new leaf.

    —————-

    That remains to be seen though. The results still have to be there when it’s all said and done.

  57. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    jerkface, don’t you think that having Romine right there automatically set up a competition. It was almost a foregone conclusion that one was going to stay and one was going to go IMO. And I may as well run as soon as I say this – in fact I am going to because I’m going out – but from all appearances Romine proved to be the better defensive catcher, and that seemed to seal the fate.

    Personally I would want the better defensive catcher behind the dish.

    Romine isn’t the gloryboy you think defensively. He has always had the upside of a good defender, but its not there yet. And between the 2 of them, one is as close to a sure thing to hit in the majors, the other is definitely not with a penchant for injuries to boot. Romine’s been trending downward offensively and whatever you may think regarding defensive catching is not going to come to pass with the Yankees putting a below average offensive player behind the plate just to bolster some marginal caught stealings or wild pitches blocked.

    I think the reason they traded Montero is because they had Martin for another year, they want to re-sign him, and they think they will gain more wins out of Pineda than with Montero. I do not think Romine factored into it too greatly, as he still has an abundance of question marks. Consider this, arm isn’t everything but Romine threw out only 23% of runners last year, Montero 20%. One guy is projected to be a middle of the order powerhouse while the other merely an average hitter.

  58. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 5:33 pm
    “Renteria, like Jeter, did not care for the Fenway infield grass. It played with his head, and they just didn’t think he was “Sox material.” I guess because he was a short stop who could actually hit.”

    +
    ///

    Since you’re up there, what’s the buzz on the starting SS this year? Are they going with no-hit Iglesias?

  59. mick March 11th, 2012 at 5:42 pm

    This is all 1st guessing.
    The 2nd guessing will start when the real bitterness or ecstasy sets in on the success or failure of Pineda and/or Montero.
    All the I-told-you-so heroes will be out in full force professing their expertise.
    Why not give it a rest till then , it’s played out, and there’s nuthin you can do about it…

  60. yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    He got traded because they didn’t like his catching–plain and simple. They overrate catcher defense and underrate his ability to play there. They would rather have Cervelli catch. Let’s just hope they don’t make the same mistake with Gary Sanchez.

  61. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    Nothing anyone says that even slightly suggests that Montero isn’t perfect is anathema to you.

    This was supposed to say ANYTHING anyone says. Don’t have any idea how that happened.

    And I mean to suggest that you can’t take any criticism of him at all. Despite his first name, he really isn’t God.

  62. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    But I forgot – this is no longer the blog for fans of the Yankees. it is the place to go to log your complaints about how the Yankees run their organization from top to bottom.

    —————-

    It’s a complaint based on what they have done over the yrs. It’s not a misguided one.

  63. yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    It is not about his hit tool. No one doubts his hit tool.

  64. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock-

    i actually really enjoy fangraphs.

  65. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    He got traded because they didn’t like his catching–plain and simple. They overrate catcher defense and underrate his ability to play there. They would rather have Cervelli catch. Let’s just hope they don’t make the same mistake with Gary Sanchez.

    —————–

    They probably will and would anyone be surprised if they do.

  66. mick March 11th, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    is a hit tool a bat?

  67. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    “Rich – One way you can try to make yourself feel better about it is realizing that whatever happens in Seattle stays in Seattle”

    I don’t believe this.

  68. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    They would rather have Cervelli catch

    And Cervelli was a guy who was ‘major league ready’ defensively after 1 season in the minors, that and his offensive approach (good patience) were the reason he got the call in 09. And he actually showed his good defense in the minors, nailing 40% in 2007 and 50% in 2008. 38% in 2009, and then 41% in the majors that year.

    The fact that his rates have plummeted since 09 is a mystery, but he certainly does not look good out there.

  69. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    is a hit tool a bat?

    Hit tool is the ability to hit for average and be a good hitter.

    5 tools:

    1 – Hit, all the things regarding hitting except for power
    2 – Power, the ability to hit for power
    3 – Speed, running and what not
    4 – Glove, defense
    5 – Arm, the ability to throw

    Montero has 3 tools: Hit, Power, & Arm.

  70. mick March 11th, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    Does anybody know if Montero had problems with managers and/or coaches as far as attitude?
    Not that it would matter to those that adore him but could this have been a factor we have purposely not heard about as it would have devalued his trade value.

  71. Rice Pudding Flavoured Relief Pitcher March 11th, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    Had Montero become more flexible over the years, been a better framer of pitches, etc then he still would have been here regardless of the make-up of the roster.

    So in reality that’s on Jesus not the Yankees.

  72. yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    But I forgot – this is no longer the blog for fans of the Yankees. it is the place to go to log your complaints about how the Yankees run their organization from top to bottom.
    _____
    We are all Yankee fans. It is called a discussion. It is not personal. And analyzing the game and the team one loves doesn’t make that person any less of a Yankee fan.

  73. blake March 11th, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    I think the Yankees sometimes think they will always have offense because they are the Yankees…..and the Yankees are supposed to have offense.

  74. mick March 11th, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    Montero has 3 tools: Hit, Power, & Arm.
    ==========================
    Most would call him a 2 tool player.

  75. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    ” They overrate catcher defense and underrate his ability to play there. ”

    mostly what a catcher does is stop the ball from rolling to the back stop.

    if the ball roll to the backstop, it really slows down the game.

    most catchers can stop the ball from rolling to the back stop.

    montero is no exception.

  76. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    I think a lot of things conspired against Montero’s being here right now.

    But I’m don’t buy into the conspiracy here. Sorry.

    Wish he was here myself, hence the wondering what could have been had he hit last spring like he is now.

    ==========================
    Villa,

    I respect you a great deal, i think you are very smart. what i don’t understand is that you say this is a conspiracy theory, there are plenty of facts to back it up:

    1) In ST, Cervelli gets hurt, they prefer to take north Gus Molina!!

    2)They try to trade him in the last two years that we know three times, granted for elite talent.

    3) They finally called him up, and when there is an emergency, they bring Romine all the way from the east to catch a meaningless game in September.

    4)He crushes the cover of the ball in Sept…Yet he is traded in Jan.

    Again, the only way i can understand them trading Montero is the if they didn’t think he could catch, and everything else spined out from there. But if they thought that on top hitting he could catch they are dumbest Baseball Executives for doing that trade. Even if it was the case it was a bad trade for the lack of bats in the upper levels of the farm and the aging lineup the Yankees have….Pitching they’ve got plenty of it as you can see on the different games of ST ( Banuelos, Phelps, Warren, Betances just to name a few. )

  77. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    “We are all Yankee fans. ”

    yf

    You’re so naive. ;) If you don’t agree with the company line, you are not a fan in some people’s eyes. As goofy as that sounds it is apparently the way some authoritarian personalities think.

  78. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    Most would call him a 2 tool player.

    And he has the 2 most important tools for maintaining a long and successful career.

  79. yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    “Joe Girardi and Co. told him in Spring Training to not even worry about hitting, only about catching. That’s how much faith everyone has in his hitting ability. Baseball America rated him the fourth best prospect heading into 2010, and the third best heading into 2011.”

    http://www.pinstripealley.com/…..us-montero

  80. yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Jesus Montero is hitting .136. Joe Girardi says it doesn’t matter that much.

    “To me, the defense has to come first and it’s the first thing I told him,” said Girardi before Montero put up his latest 0-for-3 to make it 3-for-22 on the spring. “Not hitting in spring training, yeah, you want to see everyone hitting great coming out of spring training. I’ve seen a lot of guys hit great in spring and don’t hit the first month of the season and vice-versa. I don’t get too caught up in his bat right now.”

    Girardi is more concerned with how Montero looks behind the plate.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo…..snt-matter

  81. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    “It was not a demeaning death knell on his career.

    Nothing anyone says that even slightly suggests that Montero isn’t perfect is anathema to you.”
    ///

    Just a minor correction, Villa. You quoted me as saying “demeaning death knell” but that was your edit. I said “determining death knell” :

    Montero hit .328/.406/.590 when he was finally promoted. By your logic, last ST’s offense caused him to not make the team and was some kind of determining death knell on his Yankee career.

    Hmmm….

  82. luis March 11th, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    yankeefeminista March 11th, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    But I forgot – this is no longer the blog for fans of the Yankees. it is the place to go to log your complaints about how the Yankees run their organization from top to bottom.
    _____
    We are all Yankee fans. It is called a discussion. It is not personal. And analyzing the game and the team one loves doesn’t make that person any less of a Yankee fan.

    =====================

    A freaking MEN!!!!

  83. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    Tar, I am going to take Cashman at his words, and believe that he knows what Jesus is offensively, so saying that, why did trade?

    I think he has a manager who did not want Montero as his catcher, I think that is the big reason why with a whole bunch of smaller reasons coming into play.

    Jesus Montero never should have been thought of as the long term starting catcher of the Yankees, he instead should have been seen as the future clean-up hitter, no matter what position he was, be it, part time catcher, future first baseman, or even DH.

    His offense in my opinion was vitally important to the future of this team, much more important than a #2 starter, and I think Pineda may very well be that in time. I really like his arm, and the young kid is supposed to be a good one as well, but when l look at the Yankees, I see all these young arms I really like, and this is the big mistake of the trade from my point of view.

    Cashman so wanted to improve his rotation, that he did not have the patience to wait for Manny and Dellin to develop, he did not trust Warren,Phelps,Mitchell.

    You can say, Phil Hughes disaster of the season was a big reason for the trade, if he taken that step, I believe the trade does not happen.

    It’s my view that Joe Girardi would much rather have Romine, Martin, even Cervelli as his catcher, then Montero, but I do think he would have been on the team for if the lack of patience and Hughes bombing out.

    He believe in defense first, second and third, in this it makes sense he loves what he was, the fact Cashman might also believe this is very disconcerting if true.

    Having an offensive catcher is one of the big reasons the Yankees have 27 championships, so yeah if does not understand this, I don’t get it.

    Sanchez, or looking further down the road Greg Bird may yet give them that

    The Yankees better hit on Williams, especially Sanchez/Bird or Santana for their offense is vastly overrated for now and the future, if you don’t see this, okay, but I sure do.

  84. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    “I’ve seen a lot of guys hit great in spring and don’t hit the first month of the season and vice-versa. I don’t get too caught up in his bat right now.””

    the only thing that makes sense to me is that girardi at some point must have seen jesus buying a box of toasted almonds from the good humor man.

    it just pushed him over the edge.

  85. blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    “Most would call him a 2 tool player.”

    Manny Ramirerez was a 2 tool player. Miguel Cabrera is a 2 tool player. The most important tool BY FAR is the hit tool…..

  86. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    “I think he has a manager who did not want Montero as his catcher, I think that is the big reason why with a whole bunch of smaller reasons coming into play.”

    Except for the financial aspect of paying $20m a year for a top pitcher (which they think Pineda will become), I agree with this.

    If so, how any organization can allow any manager to have that much power is mindboggling.

  87. mick March 11th, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    if you group cashman, girardi and hal together you pretty much have one person

  88. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    “You’re so naive. If you don’t agree with the company line, you are not a fan in some people’s eyes. As goofy as that sounds it is apparently the way some authoritarian personalities think.”

    Name one Yankee fan on this board that agrees 100% of the time with the company line?

  89. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    “If so, how any organization can allow any manager to have that much power is mindboggling.”

    The Cardinals did last year which is why Rasmus was shipped out. I’m sure it wasn’t the first time that manager had that type of input.

  90. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    blake March 11th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
    I think the Yankees sometimes think they will always have offense because they are the Yankees…..and the Yankees are supposed to have offense.
    ///

    Certainly will help if Alex can be healthy and Teixeira can become his 2009 version, but if that doesn’t happen, there isn’t much of a safety net, is there. I think they do take it for granted, because their focus is somewhere else.

  91. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Rich I think the lack of patience from Cashman is the other big thing, I was begging for them to sign Kuroda, trade A.J and give Noesi the shot all winter before the trade.

    I would have gone to war with that, and been very content. but Cashman did not have any faith in Hughes from last season, he is not convinced about Nova yet, probably in part from Hughes failure to repeat, and he totally did not have the patience to wait for Manny and Dellin, nor give the other 3 a shot if they needed them.

  92. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:00 pm
    “Most would call him a 2 tool player.”

    Manny Ramirerez was a 2 tool player. Miguel Cabrera is a 2 tool player. The most important tool BY FAR is the hit tool…..
    ////

    Albert Pujols says Miguel Cabrera is the best player in baseball :D

  93. Tar March 11th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    Jason we have a lot of common ground on Montero and the trade. But Giradi being the impetus of the trade I don’t agree with. I really don’t think he has that kind of power within the organization. This one is all on Cashman, with maybe an assist to the head accountant in charge.

  94. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    “if you group cashman, girardi and hal together you pretty much have one person”

    if you put them on one side of a seesaw and hank on the other side, they could all have a nice time seesawing.

    thanks, i think i’m starting to understand how yankee management works.

  95. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
    Rich I think the lack of patience from Cashman is the other big thing, I was begging for them to sign Kuroda, trade A.J and give Noesi the shot all winter before the trade.

    I would have gone to war with that, and been very content. but Cashman did not have any faith in Hughes from last season, he is not convinced about Nova yet, probably in part from Hughes failure to repeat, and he totally did not have the patience to wait for Manny and Dellin, nor give the other 3 a shot if they needed them.
    ///

    This is the other part of motivation for the trade that is so irksome. They don’t even know their own good pitching.

  96. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    The Yankees offesively facing any good right handed pitcher are a dominated team waiting to happen, unless Alex is one of the best hitters in the game again.

    This to me if my biggest problem with this whole team.

    That Cashman, Girardi, all of them in the front office don’t see the weakness staring them in the mirror.

    Tex unless he has one of the greatest transformations I have ever seen in a swing, is never going to become a guy I amm confident in facing a right handed pitcher. His swing has so many holes, it’s just not going to happen in my view, and if I am right, you’re talking about Cano and Granderson having to carry this team.

    We all know Derek is not going to suddenly start hitting righties again, Swisher has never been nearly as good left handed, Martin, yeah Martin is Martin, anyone expecting him to be Thurman is in the Yankees front office or dugout, it’s not happening.

    Gardner is the only other guy besides Alex returning to his greatness who can help this team, and he has been so streaky, I just don’t know what he is anymore.

    This is why I hate the trade so much, again stating it was a fair trade in talent, but realizing the future of the team’s offense is glaringly problematic when I think about it, and what Jesus would have meant to help solve those holes

  97. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    “I really don’t think he has that kind of power within the organization. This one is all on Cashman, with maybe an assist to the head accountant in charge.”

    Tar

    Cashman does like to tailor the roster to his manager’s preferences.

  98. PhiltheThrill March 11th, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    We traded a 22 year old 80-80 hitter for a pitcher they hope will be a quality in the future. Numbnutsian. Of course he’s gonna hit. He’s gonna catch a bunch, too.

    Sanchez is our next big hitter, he has 80 power, but may not have an 80 hit tool. So we’ll probably trade him for a middle reliever.

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