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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Sunday notes: Command improves for both Sabathia and Hughes

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Mar 11, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Spread across two different spring training sites, separated by a little more than two hours worth of highway, a little less than half of the Yankees projected big league pitching staff got on the mound this afternoon. Phil Hughes faced the Twins in Fort Myers. CC Sabathia, Mariano Rivera, Boone Logan and Cory Wade faced the Phillies in Tampa.

Their combined line: 9 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 3 BB, 5 K.

Most of the attention was naturally on Rivera, and that’s probably the way it’s going to be throughout the season. If the expectation is that he’ll retire at the end of the season, then every one of his outings carries a little extra significance. There’s a little added appreciation to every step along the way. Rivera, Logan and Wade each pitched a hitless inning today, but the bulk of the innings belongs to the starting pitchers.

CC SABATHIA
3 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

Before the game, Sabathia told Russell Martin that he wanted to work on his two-seamer and his changeup, and those pitches were the focus of the afternoon. Sabathia wasn’t happy with his fastball command last time out, but he was much better this time, and he got better in the second and third innings.

Sabathia: “Felt good. The fastball command was pretty good, the secondary pitches were working. I still got a little ways to go, you know. I still want to work on my two-seamer. But I feel good today… Fastball command (improved). Getting it in on righties, and Russ did a good job making sure we got a lot of those. He called a lot of two-seamers which is something that we’ve been working on all spring. He did a good job of working in things we were trying to do.”

Martin: “He was great. What I liked about him was he had some good velocity. I don’t know how hard he was throwing, but it felt like the ball was jumping out of his hand. And he threw some good changeups. He threw his curveball for strikes. We talked before the game, he wanted to work on his two-seamer a lot and his changeup, I think we did a good job of that today. We threw some two-seamers in for lefties, made them uncomfortable. Locked a guy up with a slider for a puncy. Threw some good changeups down in the zone off his fastball. He was good today.”

PHIL HUGHES
3 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 1 K

Joe Girardi went on the road to see Hughes make his second spring appearance. Last time out, Hughes’ arm strength was much better than at this time last season, and his fastball remained in the low 90s this afternoon. I wasn’t there to see it, but it seems to be another solid step forward.

Hughes: “The cutter wasn’t as good as it was last time, but the curveball was much better. Fastball location was much better, as well. Command-wise, it was a lot better, especially in the second and third innings… It seemed like my fastball was good. It was jumping on hitters a little bit based on the swings I was getting. That was a positive thing. Being able to work out of some trouble with guys on, they put together some good at-bats in the first and I was able to get around those.”

Girardi: “I thought he had everything today. Fastball location was much better, he threw some good changeups, curveballs and cutters. I was very pleased. I thought it was a nice step in a positive direction for him. A lot of times at this point in the first couple starts, I’m focusing on the good things. Knowing that they are rusty, you don’t expect them to have their A stuff a lot of times. You want to see what they’ve got the first couple starts. I was pleased.”

• Girardi said today that Hughes and Sabathia will split their next start, four innings apeice, on Friday.

• Dave Robertson is supposed to get his walking boot off tomorrow, but that’s subject to change depending on how he feels. “If he comes in and he’s walking okay and it’s not too painful, he’ll come out of the boot,” Girardi said. “If it’s still pretty painful, we’ll put him back in the boot.” For whatever it’s worth, Robertson seemed to be walking much more easily today.

• Eduardo Nunez could be in a game as early as Tuesday. “We’ll have him take BP Tuesday, and if he has no problem, I’ll put him in the game,” Girardi said.

• Really nice game by Chris Dickerson here in Tampa. He made a nice running play in center field, had the two-run single that gave the Yankees the lead, and he stayed in a rundown long enough to let runners advance to second and third. I’m still surprised no team thought they could carry him as a fourth outfielder this year. He’s a nice player.

• Russell Martin stole another base today. That’s four steals in five games for the Yankees catcher. “I’m putting a little pressure on Gardy,” Martin said. “That’s all I’m doing.” Might be working because Gardner also had a stolen base today. It was Gardner’s second.

• Derek Jeter went 2-for-3 — and had another hit taken away by a nice catch in center field — in the Yankees 3-1 win against the Phillies. Dickerson, Robinson Cano, Gustavo Molina, Bill Hall, Justin Maxwell and call-up-for-the-day Austin Krum also had hits in the win. … Francisco Cervelli went 3-for-3 in the 5-1 loss to the Twins. Curtis Granderson, Nick Swisher, Gary Sanchez, Jayson Nix and Corban Joseph also had hits in that game, as did call-up-for-the-day Walter Ibarra.

• Clay Rapada, Chase Whitley and Kevin Whelan were able to keep the shutout intact in Tampa. … In Fort Myers, Adam Warren allowed one run through three innigns, but the game unraveled when Graham Stoneburner allowed a solo homer in the seventh inning and Adam Miller gave up a three-run homer in the eighth. All five Twins runs came on home runs.

• Add Dan Burawa to the injured list. Girardi said today that Burawa hurt his ribcage yesterday. “He’s probably down for a little bit,” Girardi said. Burawa seemed to be making a pretty good impression this spring but was still just here to get his feet wet. He’s not realistically in the big league picture this season.

• Once again Girardi said Austin Romine is making steady progress from his sore back, but the Yankees are staying extra cautious. There’s no rush to get Romine into regular duty in spring training. “If he’s a backup here, he’s not going to play every day,” Girardi said. “And if he’s in the minor leagues, he’s going to play every day, so you can work him up to three and four days in a row down there. That’s not a problem. I want to see him playing healthy before we leave; that’s the most important thing.”

• A lot of guys up from minor league camp today, but center field standout Mason Williams wasn’t among them. Girardi said today that he expects Williams to come up for a big league game at some point this spring. Girardi’s never seen him play, but “I’m interested,” he said.

• After fracturing the bone around his eye earlier this spring, A.J. Burnett has returned to Pirates camp. He’s still expected to miss two to three months.

• During a surprise Facetime conversation, Alex Rodriguez, Dave Robertson and Tino Martinez spoke with Stephanie Decker, the mother that lost both legs while protecting her two children from a tornado in Indiana last week.

• Want further proof that Mariano Rivera pretty much sets his own schedule in spring training? Here’s Girardi’s I-have-no-idea answer to a question about what’s next for Rivera after today’s debut appearance: “He’ll probably have some days where he has a couple days off. He might throw an inning, do a bullpen the next time, then throw an inning again. He usually gets his seven or eight appearances in, so he’s got plenty of time to do that. There’s no rush.”

Associated Press photos

 
 

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130 Responses to “Sunday notes: Command improves for both Sabathia and Hughes”

  1. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    Ground Hog Day Again!

  2. blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    “Most would call him a 2 tool player.”

    Manny Ramirerez was a 2 tool player. Miguel Cabrera is a 2 tool player. The most important tool BY FAR is the hit tool……..Frank Thomas, Edgar Martinez etc….all pretty much 2 tool players.

  3. mick March 11th, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    all of the above, not catchers.

  4. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    Yup, if you can’t hit, you better be able to pitch.

  5. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    “all of the above, not catchers.”

    Joel Skinner disagrees.

  6. blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    “all of the above, not catchers.”

    so….2 of them were basically DH’s and the other two are/were bad defensively.

  7. blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Hughes looks like 3 years younger than he did last year.

  8. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    “You’re so naive. If you don’t agree with the company line, you are not a fan in some people’s eyes. As goofy as that sounds it is apparently the way some authoritarian personalities think.”

    Name one Yankee fan on this board that agrees 100% of the time with the company line?

  9. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Some people have thought that Posada was a 2 tool player (with a -1 on running), and he may be going to the HoF.

  10. luis March 11th, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Later guys

  11. mick March 11th, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    yanks were not in the market for a dh and went after pitching, thats their philosophy

  12. mick March 11th, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    FREE CARMELO

  13. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    “Name one Yankee fan on this board that agrees 100% of the time with the company line?”

    Don’t change the subject.

    Here’s what I responding to:

    “But I forgot – this is no longer the blog for fans of the Yankees. it is the place to go to log your complaints about how the Yankees run their organization from top to bottom.”

    My comment is on point.
    _____

  14. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

    “My comment is on point.”

    Your comment is not on point because you’re basically saying that no complaints are allowed by certain Yankee fans on this board which isn’t true.

  15. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    mick March 11th, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    yanks were not in the market for a dh and went after pitching, thats their philosophy

    —————

    I thought the philosophy was to grow the pitching.

  16. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    “I thought the philosophy was to grow the pitching.”

    Pineda isn’t fully grown.

  17. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    “Your comment is not on point because you’re basically saying that no complaints are allowed by certain Yankee fans on this board which isn’t true.”

    Allowed? Bull.

    I’m saying that anyone who complains about criticism of the organization as put forth by that comment is saying that there is a specific way to be a fan.

    I don’t care if you disagree. That’s my opinion.

  18. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    “FREE CARMELO”

    I actually feel bad for him.

  19. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    “I’m saying that anyone who complains about criticism of the organization as put forth by that comment is saying that there is a specific way to be a fan.”

    Which fans are saying you can’t criticize the Yankees?

    “I don’t care if you disagree. That’s my opinion.”

    Mature response.

  20. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 6:17 pm

    He isn’t but all the talk yrs ago was they were going to grow the pitching. Can’t you say that trading for Pineda shows how unsuccessful they have been in the pitching department?

  21. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    “Which fans are saying you can’t criticize the Yankees?”

    Anyone who constantly whines about people who bring up Montero. JAP took a lot of abuse yesterday by several people. Go back and get some names if you like.

    “Mature response.”

    Actually, it is.

  22. luis March 11th, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Mature response.

    ==================

    Like your Groundhog comment?

  23. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    “He isn’t but all the talk yrs ago was they were going to grow the pitching. Can’t you say that trading for Pineda shows how unsuccessful they have been in the pitching department?”

    Nobody will disagree with you that they should have been more successful in that regard, but that doesn’t mean they were unsuccessful.

  24. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    The Yankees offensively facing any good right handed pitcher are a dominated team waiting to happen, unless Alex is one of the best hitters in the game again.

    This to me if my biggest problem with this whole team.

    That Cashman, Girardi, all of them in the front office don’t see the weakness staring them in the mirror, is something I am afraid of.

    Tex unless he has one of the greatest transformations I have ever seen in a swing, is never going to become a guy I am confident in facing a right handed pitcher. His swing has so many holes, it’s just not going to happen in my view, and if I am right, you’re talking about Cano and Granderson having to carry this team.

    We all know Derek is not going to suddenly start hitting righties again, Swisher has never been nearly as good left handed, Martin, yeah Martin is Martin, anyone expecting him to be Thurman is in the Yankees front office or dugout, it’s not happening.

    Gardner is the only other guy besides Alex returning to his greatness who can help this team, and he has been so streaky, I just don’t know what he is anymore.

    This is why I hate the trade so much, again stating it was a fair trade in talent, but realizing the future of the team’s offense is glaringly problematic when I think about it, and what Jesus would have meant to help solve those holes

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    Randy, I was laughing about the anathema comment, not the fangraphs one.

    I refer to pitchfx occasionally, though I haven’t liked some of Dave Cameron’s more evaluative articles and his conclusions. It has its uses.

  26. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    “He isn’t but all the talk yrs ago was they were going to grow the pitching. Can’t you say that trading for Pineda shows how unsuccessful they have been in the pitching department?”

    Nobody will disagree with you that they should have been more successful in that regard, but that doesn’t mean they were unsuccessful

    ———————-

    The results speak for themselves. Outside of Nova and Hughes alternating years and Joba’s 2008 stint it has been unsuccessful.

  27. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    “Anyone who constantly whines about people who bring up Montero. JAP took a lot of abuse yesterday by several people. Go back and get some names if you like.”

    It still has nothing to do with you not being a good Yankee fan because you don’t follow the company line.

  28. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    “The results speak for themselves. Outside of Nova and Hughes alternating years and Joba’s 2008 stint it has been unsuccessful.”

    So are you saying they’re going to remain unsuccessful? If so what do you want them to do?

  29. Rice Pudding Flavoured Relief Pitcher March 11th, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    I keep trying to peer over Montero’s stats over the past two seasons.

    Other than hot stretches here (April 2011) & there (July and Sept 2011) there’s NOTHING there to make me believe… Sorry ~convince me ~ to make me see how he would have carried the Yankees (along with Cano and possibly Granderson) this season with his bat or even next season.

  30. blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    “The Yankees offensively facing any good right handed pitcher are a dominated team waiting to happen, unless Alex is one of the best hitters in the game again.”

    I think the offense vs RH pitching is a weakness and have said so many times….but its only a weakness on the Yankee standard level…..its not really relative to most teams in the game. I do agree they need Alex to stay healthy and they need more consistency out of Tex from the left side…..otherwise they are really going to have to hope the rotation is as good as it probably can be in a best case scenario

  31. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    “Like your Groundhog comment?”

    It’s dead on Luis! No matter what the discussion, this blog returns to Montero/Pineda. You think that type of one track discussion is good for this blog?

  32. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:31 pm

    “It still has nothing to do with you not being a good Yankee fan because you don’t follow the company line.”

    I think your comment is absurd given this:

    “But I forgot – this is no longer the blog for fans of the Yankees. it is the place to go to log your complaints about how the Yankees run their organization from top to bottom.”

    It’s boring to debate.

  33. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:32 pm

    “It’s boring to debate.”

    But, it’s not boring to debate the Montero/Pineda trade 70% of the time?

  34. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    What I meant to convey is that Yankees fans who do not wish to participate in the daily, ongoing, non-stop snarky criticism of everything the Yankees organization does seem to be in the minority here.

    And not everyone who offers criticism does so with snark and sarcasm. there are a lot of posters here whose critical voice is enlightening and interesting to read, whether or not I agree with them.

    I don’t agree with everything the Yankees do. But I’m more inclined to think they know more about why they do things than anyone else does. I also don’t buy into the WS or bust mentality, so I guess there’s my problem right there.

    And all I said was I wonder where Montero would be if he’d hit last spring? But I forget that it’s never anything the players do or don’t do; it’s always what the Yankees did to undermine them. Perhaps it’s a little of both? Perhaps there are circumstances we are not privy to? Nah.

    So mea culpa. I will not even hint at criticizing the Montero.

  35. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    “But, it’s not boring to debate the Montero/Pineda trade 70% of the time?”

    Given the alternative topics available at this point:

    1) Ibanez may or may not bounce back this year.
    2) Pineda lacks early velo, but may be improving his change.
    3) Mo may retire.
    4) Andruw may win an everyday job.
    5) Hughes may bounce back.

    All these are inchoate stories so they lack much meat to put on the bones of a discussion.

    Nature (and sports fans) abhors a vacuum. So it’s hardly all that shocking that the potentially biggest trade this franchise has made since 2004 is still a hot topic.

  36. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    “The results speak for themselves. Outside of Nova and Hughes alternating years and Joba’s 2008 stint it has been unsuccessful.”

    So are you saying they’re going to remain unsuccessful? If so what do you want them to do?

    —————

    What I’m saying is they have to show and prove.

    Get a better grasp on developing pitching if it doesn’t work. Maybe change the way they teach and nurture them.

  37. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Rich,

    Well, I guess that’s just how it is then. See you on the other side.

  38. Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    “What I’m saying is they have to show and prove.

    Get a better grasp on developing pitching if it doesn’t work. Maybe change the way they teach and nurture them.”

    I’m not disagreeing with you as I stated repeatedly that Cashman’s vision needs to take hold this year, otherwise, I think it’s time for an organizational change.

  39. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    blake obviously, I am talking about the Yankees winning in the playoffs and hopefully World Series when I talk about their hitting.

    Yes to compare them to other teams, their offense is not a problem, but sorry, but if that is what Cashman is doing, and I don’t know what he is, but if he is then he is failing at his job. Y

    You have to look at this team winning every season and just being a good offense compared to the other teams is not how I would ever look at them.

    Tex needs to go the other way a lot, over 30 percent of the time for me, if he does that, he can maybe hit 270 again left handed, but against good pitching, he is always going to have issues with that swing.

    I don’t know what is going on with people attacking other people, I don’t really care one way or another, but all Yankee fans are equal to me. It does not matter how long you have been following them or your opinions, no one agrees on everything.

    We are have our own views, no one is 100 percent right nor wrong, we all want the same thing and that is championships.

  40. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    And Rich in NJ -

    Excuse me for feeling exasperated. No one’s telling anyone how to be a fan. But this place is definitely less comfortable for some people than for others.

  41. blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    “Tex needs to go the other way a lot, over 30 percent of the time for me, if he does that, he can maybe hit 270 again left handed, but against good pitching, he is always going to have issues with that swing.”

    yea….he needs to use the whole field….my concern though is that unless his swing plane changes (and I think it maybe has a little this spring)….then him trying to go the other way is going to lead to a lot of lazy fly balls to LF. I haven’t seen but a couple of his spring AB’s but I like the subtle changes he’s made…..realizing he has a problem is a big step in the right direction.

    and I also agree that we are talking about winning the WS….I didn’t like the Montero trade either and think they needed his bat more than a “#2 starter” going forward…..but it is what it is now and what’s done is done. I just hope their lineup can fend off father time for a couple more seasons until hopefully the Gary Sanchez’s and Mason Williams’s start to get close……and I have to hope their pitching is as good as they are apparently hoping it is. Sabathia, Pineda, Banuelos is a potentially really good core a couple years from now…..

  42. Rich in NJ March 11th, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    V N-Y

    There are more than a few people here who post stuff that I don’t read. If the JM stuff bothers you, don’t read it. I am not saying that to be flip. It works for me.

  43. blake March 11th, 2012 at 6:50 pm

    speaking of Gary Sanchez….he looks dangerous in the box….I think his swings needs a little work but he’s got loads of bat speed….seems to have a pretty good idea of the strike zone, and seems to have good plate coverage. He took a 96 mph heater on the outside corner and went with it to RF today for a base knock….he got it off the end but the approach was good.

  44. J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    The season to some extent will answer questions or at least move the needle on certain talking points.

  45. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    luis – best I can say is that the Yankees didn’t feel that both Romine and Montero were in the Yankee plans.

    We won’t always agree with what they do, but who’s to say that we have it right?

    We may end up giving many players over the years who end up being great elsewhere. Sometimes that’s a price you pay to get other players you need.

    It’s easy to see that there are various camps here on this one. Who’s to say which camp has it right? Nothing. All opinion.

  46. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    Chad, would you mind pasting this at the beginning of each thread you start?

    “So, what do you think of the Montero/Pineda trade?”

  47. Pat M. March 11th, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    Baseball operations break down their Scouting dept.’s into 3 levels…Amateur Scouts, Professional Scouts & Advanced Scouts with a few layers fir each……That being said, we all should be thrilled that here at The Lohud we have members who are all three in one and pontificate in such absolutes I feel we are blessed…..Someone actually posted the other night that Jesus Montero is not only better than Curtis Granderson, he’s going to be better than Frank Thomas…..Keep in mind that Frank Thomas went from Rookie ball to Commiskey in one year and could play defense…..I do get the disappointment of losing a mythical god, but if Montero was this good, do you really think The Yanks trade him ??? Or if so why would other clubs turn Cashman down ???? Think about it , he was offered up for 2 month rentals twice and twice was rejected………He’s going to be a good big league hitter but he’s not a future MVP or will he win a batting title…Time to get real

  48. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    Villa, I know what you mean. There is a sense of tension here because of the Montero trade. Some people feel it was the wrong decision, some people feel it was the right decision, some people aren’t happy that Montero was traded but still understand why it happened, some are hoping for the best.

    I can’t criticize greatly because I spent a season in the past doing the same thing, and I remember posters basically saying the same kinds of things to me to help me get past it – and I believe they were sincere.

    I don’t think the organization was wrong in trading Montero because I personally understand that the DH position has to be fluid, and I understand that they wanting pitching and had their catcher of choice in the wings.

    I coud come up with a thousand reasons that Montero should still be here but it really wouldn’t make any difference in the big picture because it doesn’t change a thing.

    And even though I thoroughly believe Montero is going to be a killer, I also think it’s legitimate for those who aren’t convinced to have their own opinions and to question it.

    I just look forward to a wonderful Yankee season. I’ll be thrilled for Montero if he turns out to be what I think he will be because I am able to compartmentalize. I wish him success. I believe the Yankees will thrive despite his not being here. Wish he were, but he isn’t.

  49. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    Pat M,

    the great Jack Z (and I’m surely not saying I agreed with his decision) wanted Justin Smoak more than Montero.

    I agree – Montero has a great shot to be a tremendous player, but I’m not ready to punch his ticket to Cooperstown yet… and frankly, I’m mystified that some people are (not because he won’t, but because it’s just so early and so much can happen.)

  50. raymagnetic March 11th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Jack Z played Cashman like a ukelele and ended up getting both Smoak and Montero. He’s looking pretty smart to me right now.

    He got Smoak for a pitcher he was never going to sign anyway and got Montero for an incomplete pitcher that he didn’t need.

    Right now Jack Z > Cashman.

  51. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    BD and Pat M – I think Montero is going to be a phenom with the bat. I truly do.

    That said, I understand the decision the Yankees made.

    There’s the middle ground I’m talking about. I don’t think I’m alone. There were many posters who voiced disappointment at losing Montero but excitement at getting Pineda.

    And I’ll go one step further. If Pineda falls flat on his face (I’m not thinking that for a minute but I need to put it out there) and Montero goes on to be the next Babe Ruth, I still think it was the right decision for the Yankees to make based on their currrent roster and their current needs.

    Monday morning quarterbacking is too easy.

  52. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Or if so why would other clubs turn Cashman down ???? Think about it , he was offered up for 2 month rentals twice and twice was rejected………He’s going to be a good big league hitter but he’s not a future MVP or will he win a batting title…Time to get real

    He was offered for Lee, where is the other offer for 2 month rental.

    He was in two trades, one for Haliday straight up and Lee, I think it’s time for you to get real maybe?

    Pat M You were the one who thought he should be traded for the guy in Colorodo, yeah the Indians got a lot out of him so far huh?

    You might know scouts, and you seem to know a lot about pitching, but the way you don’t see what Montero is going to be offensively, yeah, I don’t trust your eyes on that account.

    Is he going to be a MVP or batting champion, I think the odds are way higher, that he will be, than he won’t, in terms of hitters, there are not many in the game who have so few holes than he does, and that you can not teach.

  53. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    “Chad, would you mind pasting this at the beginning of each thread you start?

    “So, what do you think of the Montero/Pineda trade?””

    LMAO

  54. ron March 11th, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    It is obviously a little too early,but gary sanchez can be as good or better than montero.

    It is very possible.

    He hit the same amount of hr’s in a ball,in almost 200 less ab.
    Maybe he strikes out more,and his average is not as high,but if he can stick at catching,there might be some real value there,at a scarce position.

    We also got campos in the deal,and pineda is going to be a real good pitcher,and with a good changeup,he will be an ace.

    Most people against the trade act like we gave montero away.

    Not the case,at all.

  55. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Wow, didn’t catch the game today, but it looks like CC’s in the best shape of his life…really.

  56. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    “J. Alfred Prufrock March 11th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
    Randy, I was laughing about the anathema comment, not the fangraphs one.”

    i knew there was a joke in there somewhere. i just wasn’t sure where.

    as far as martin stealing bases, i mean seriously, if a catcher is told to not take a hit at home plate in spring training because he might be injured, why would a catcher steal 4 bases in five games ?

    to me it’s extremely unnecessary and down stupid. it crosses my mind that martin is a self centered player who wants to pad his stats this year rather than be a team player. maybe girard doesn’t care because he’d like to have an excuse to throw in the worst throwing catcher in the major leagues into a starting position when martin breaks a hand or jams an ankle sliding.

    somethings weird letting martin steal spring training bases. i’d fine his ass $5000 every time he stole a base and ten thousand every time he was thrown out.

  57. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    Jason22 – regardless of what Montero is going to become, if the organization needed to concentrate on starting pitching and they wanted what they considered to be really good starting pitching, and if they felt there was no solid position for him, can’t you understand why he was traded? You can’t trade chopped liver if you want to end up with filet mignon.

    And let me remind all of you who may feel disgruntled about this that the trade was considered virtually universally (read: all of the sportscasters, scouts, etc) to be a great one for the Yankees. Pineda is considered to be a top-rate prospect for the Yanks.

  58. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    He’s going to be a good big league hitter but he’s not a future MVP or will he win a batting title. Time to get real.

    Ok so after a bunch of stuff clowning other peoples opinions you drop your REAL opinion, that you don’t think he is an MVP type hitter. You’re essentially saying, “Your opinions are wrong, my opinion is right.” What if he IS an MVP type bat (and of course winning an MVP is entirely subjective as he could simply get 100 RBIs and take the Mariners to the playoffs 1 year and win it with worse stats than a similar player on a better team like Justin Morneau/Tejada/Vlad did)?

    Considering your track record the last couple of years, I think I’ll be taking your opinion with a grain of salt :)

  59. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    ron – you make some excellent points. And an overarching point in all of that, and one that is made on this forum from time to time is this: fans tend to concentrate on the immediate. The organization is always looking at the present and at the future. They’re evaluating their talent all the time. They are in touch with their minor league camps and they know what is happening down below and who is performing how.

    The organization has more information in its smallest drawer than this entire forum does on its best day.

    But it’s probably in the nature of all fans to feel they know how to run organizations better than organizations know how to run themselves. If it weren’t the case, there wouldn’t be grown people almost crying over sport-station phone lines on a daily basis or railing and things they don’t like.

    C’est la vie. Or more aptly, c’est la guerre.

  60. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    You can’t trade chopped liver if you want to end up with filet mignon.
    ———

    Yeah, if Pineda didn’t have his warts (two pitches, down second half) it would have taken more than Montero (and Noesi) to acquire him. He’d probably be untouchable. If Montero was a great defensive catcher he’d probably be untouchable too.

  61. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    trisha,

    my only real issue is the level of certainty that some have that Montero will be a perennial MVP – a Pujols type.

    Sure, he could be great. But to treat this trade as if it’s already decided… that Montero is a no-brainer Hall of Famer before he starts a season in the big leagues, is nuts to me.

  62. Pat M. March 11th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Jason…..No batting titles, runs too slow and whiffs 20 % ….I do think he’ll have a few seasons where he’ll hit 35 dingers ….

  63. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    trisha, read what I said in this post and the last one, I understand the reasoning behind the trade, I think the talent level of it is fair, I just disagree with the reasoning of doing it vehemently.

    I like Pineda, I hope he is that #2, I still would not have made the deal if he is everything we all want him to be.

  64. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Matt Kemp hit .324 while King 24% of the time. Miguel Cabrera opened his career at a 20% K rate and brought it down. Montero has the hit tool to hit for a high average with lots of bombs. Going to be a top of the leaderboard hitter.

  65. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Joey Votto has been routinely in the top 10 of NL batting average with a 20% K rate. Its all about what you do with it. Montero isn’t the kind of hacker that leads to a .260 average.

  66. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Pat M, I think the speed may hurt him, but actually he has always gotten a # of infield hits a season in the minors because of his swing.

    Third baseman and second baseman play so deep on him, that he is going to get a good # a year where he does not hit it hard.

    I am not saying he is going to win a batting title, for catchers that is always hard to do, but he will have some seasons where he is close to one I think.

    Now the MVP, for me he is going to be in the top 10 of the voting for many many years, and yeah I am pretty confident of him winning one of those someday.

    Oh and 35 HR, yeah I think that should be quite easy for him to do many times in his career, considering he does not even know how to loft the ball yet, when he does that, 35 is on the low end of his talent.

  67. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    Oh J Al, on the question about Iglesias. All I know is what I hear on EEI and the prevalent feeling is that they hope he is sent back down to the Pawsux to learn hitting. They consider him to be a cracker-jack SS but they’re really concerned about his hitting.

    So let’s hope he stays up!

    :)

  68. PhiltheThrill March 11th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    Sanchez looked like he might be an 80-80 hitter, too, two years ago. Then last year he was shut down in ST with the heart scare, then started off slowly (finding his timing) and struggled for the first time in his life. He acted immaturely, like a LOT of teenagers do, and then really started to look like he might be 80-80 again just before they had to shut him down.

    All trade yips aside, he has a Yankee bat and should be able to “stay at catcher” enough for the imbeciles.

  69. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    jerkface-

    what percentage will safeco knock down montero’s home run production.

    i’m guessing off the top of my head 20 %.

  70. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    I like Pineda, I hope he is that #2, I still would not have made the deal if he is everything we all want him to be.
    ——–

    Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

  71. Against All Odds March 11th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Crawdaddy March 11th, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    “What I’m saying is they have to show and prove.

    Get a better grasp on developing pitching if it doesn’t work. Maybe change the way they teach and nurture them.”

    I’m not disagreeing with you as I stated repeatedly that Cashman’s vision needs to take hold this year, otherwise, I think it’s time for an organizational change

    ————

    We can agree on that.

  72. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    Sanchez looked like he might be an 80-80 hitter, too, two years ago. Then last year he was shut down in ST with the heart scare, then started off slowly (finding his timing) and struggled for the first time in his life. He acted immaturely, like a LOT of teenagers do, and then really started to look like he might be 80-80 again just before they had to shut him down.

    Sanchez strikes out way too much right now to be an 80 type bat. He simply doesnt have the contact Montero does. Though his power is too legit.

  73. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    what percentage will safeco knock down montero’s home run production.

    i’m guessing off the top of my head 20 %.

    That is way too high, putting too much emphasis on a believed park factor. Just like people thought A-gon was going to hit 60 HRs in fenway. Parks matter, but they aren’t going to cut a guy that deep. SafeCo is actually pretty friendly to lefties in terms of HRs and a lot of Montero’s power is to right field. And its fairly similar to NYS in the left field area as well.

  74. PhiltheThrill March 11th, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    Jerkface,

    I think all the K’ng early last year was cause his timing got screwed up and he kept trying to fix it all with 1 swing. We’ll see this year. The power is real, the rest of it is still open.

  75. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    RadioKev,

    I’ll never get tired of references to that all time great.

  76. Tar March 11th, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Everybody compares Pineda to Montero…. hell I’m at least somewhat concerned that Noesi may put up a comparable year to Pineda.

    Not a pretty picture….

  77. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 7:39 pm

    “That is way too high, putting too much emphasis on a believed park factor. ”

    i’m guessing 28 homers his first year plus or minus 5.

  78. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    I think all the K’ng early last year was cause his timing got screwed up and he kept trying to fix it all with 1 swing. We’ll see this year. The power is real, the rest of it is still open.

    he still K’d at over 20% in the GCL his first season. Maybe the mis-timing affected his ability to put the ball in play hard enough to keep his average up, but he has struck out a lot from his debut. Its something Montero did not do. Montero had a gradual increase in strike outs as he moved up levels, but he has always been the youngest in his league so I think its something that will come down to the 16% range, which if pat m is reading is where a lot of batting title champs live.

    I’d like to see Sanchez cut 7% off his K rate from last year this season and Austin Romine to OPS .800 in AAA.

  79. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    “hell I’m at least somewhat concerned that Noesi may put up a comparable year to Pineda.”

    if that happens plus montero tears it up, cashman would have his nightmare scenario.

  80. LockDown March 11th, 2012 at 7:42 pm

    I totally get the need to add a young pitcher. But a need for a bat is also there. There’s no guarantee that Teix will hit rhp. then there’s age, is a-rod going to have injuries going forward & swisher is dead weight in the post season.

    I really like the move the angels did in getting a big bat & a pitcher.

    Trading Montero to get Pineda was not a must move to get a pitcher. The better move was to get YU Darvish & keep montero. Now you have the pitcher AND bat you need. IMO This would have been the best move & don’t bother to quote money to me. With money coming off the books it was doable.

  81. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    That is way too high, putting too much emphasis on a believed park factor. Just like people thought A-gon was going to hit 60 HRs in fenway. Parks matter, but they aren’t going to cut a guy that deep. SafeCo is actually pretty friendly to lefties in terms of HRs and a lot of Montero’s power is to right field. And its fairly similar to NYS in the left field area as well.
    ———-

    I think Adrian Gonzalez probably has been nursing an injury, his HRs have decreased which makes no sense if he’s healthy. How doesn’t a park matter? Using Adrian Gonzalez as an example again.. his career Home/Away HR splits 71/124. That’s much higher than 20%…

    And Petco Park is different than Safeco, so this is somewhat beside the point, but the park undoubtedly can cut a guy deep.

  82. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    Tar, yep, I think that could happen especially if he has issues dealing with the pressure.

    Jerkface and Phil, Sanchez has a long way to go to be in the same sentence as Montero as a hitter.

    Yeah he showed good power, although many of those were in that Red Sox ball park, which is known to be HR derby, but he batted what like 70 points lower than Jesus in that league?

    He needs to cut down the strikeouts improve his defense even more than that, and show he has matured, and then we can put him near to where Jesus was at the same time.

  83. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    how did Adrian Beltre do at Safeco?

    :)

  84. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    BD,

    Oh yeah, I look for excuses to use those quotes ;)

  85. PhiltheThrill March 11th, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    He hit as many HR’s as JM did in the league in 250 fewer AB’s. That’s impressive. Romine doesn’t have a Yankee Bat. Bird very well might. Murphy still might, Tejeda might. We’ll probably draft another catcher.

  86. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Lock – it’s hard to argue that the need for a bat is there when the Yanks were 2nd in the majors in runs last year.

  87. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    “it’s hard to argue that the need for a bat is there when the Yanks were 2nd in the majors in runs last year.”

    ———-

    trisha,

    this isn’t about 2012 though. it’s about 2020.

    cmon now…

  88. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 7:49 pm

    as a matter of fact, if noesi has a better year than pineda and montero kills it, the only nightmare scene worse for cashman would be him seeing louise meanwell having lunch with lorena bobbit.

  89. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    He hit as many HR’s as JM did in the league in 250 fewer AB’s. That’s impressive. Romine doesn’t have a Yankee Bat. Bird very well might. Murphy still might, Tejeda might. We’ll probably draft another catcher.

    I don’t think Sanchez’s power is in question. He is really, really strong. But lots of guys are really strong, its that unique combination of bat control & power that made Jesus Montero such a delectable prospect.

  90. LockDown March 11th, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    trisha – I have no problem understanding or arguing the need for a bat in the lineup.

    I get that you love Pinedaa so you need to fight off the argument of having both. I HATE this trade.

  91. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    how did Adrian Beltre do at Safeco?

    A 25 HR guy at safeco, kind of like what he was with the dodgers before his 1 outlier year, and what he was with boston and the rangers :)

  92. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    Phil his HR #s are impressive, he is probably a better HR guy than Montero at the same age, Jesus has still not learned how to loft the ball, but his contact skills need to improve otherwise saying he is as good of a hitter is foolish.

    If Bird is that good, he should have a Williams type year for SI this summer.

  93. PhiltheThrill March 11th, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    We have a lot of exciting young players in A and below. No young position players in the bigs for the next couple of years, though David Adams could be a useful bat at some point while we’re waiting for the next batch to be ready.

  94. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    “this isn’t about 2012 though. it’s about 2020.”

    Drat! BD, why is it that I have such difficulty living at least three years into the future? I mean we all know that life is static so what we see right now is certainly transferrable to the year 2015.

    isn’t it?

  95. PhiltheThrill March 11th, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    Jason,

    good thing I didn’t say it then.

    I’m exciting to see what Bird does this year, as well as the other Sons of Tyler Austin we drafted last year.

  96. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    And Petco Park is different than Safeco, so this is somewhat beside the point, but the park undoubtedly can cut a guy deep.

    You’re right, Kev, I should say that unless the park is such an extreme it won’t destroy a guy like Montero so greatly. SafeCo was actually above average for HRs last year. And it is on a year to year basis friendly to left handed power hitters. Guys like A-rod, edgar martinez, and Boone managed to launch 30 Hrs in the place and they were all righties.

  97. stuckey March 11th, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    “and Boone managed to launch 30 Hrs in the place and they were all righties.”

    Was that Boone or Bane?

  98. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    Yeah Jerkface, and Montero’s power to all fields is pretty incredible – I don’t doubt that he could hit 30 HRs there. I’d say it’s bullish to predict it for 2012, but it’s possible.

  99. BD (Boston Dave) March 11th, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    “how did Adrian Beltre do at Safeco?

    A 25 HR guy at safeco, kind of like what he was with the dodgers before his 1 outlier year, and what he was with boston and the rangers”

    —————–

    he averaged about 20-22 HR a season in seattle.

    then up to 28 and 32HR last season. (if you want to throw out his 48HR in LA)

    just saying that a 20% swing in HR due to a park isn’t a wild estimate.

  100. Jason22 March 11th, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    I know you did not say that Phil, I hope you did not think I was saying that?

    It’s the beat writers and the like who repeat this stuff as more reason why Montero was expendable.

    As i said earlier, the Yankees need Sanchez/Bird or even Murphy to be that different maker at catcher, to continue the advantage they have always used for an offensive catcher to win championships.

    They also need Williams, and Santana to be the real deal, which I think both might be.

    If all that happens, and Bichette or an Andujar comes along, they will be good, but I still think Montero would have improved their chances to win now, and the future.

    Oh and Austin is going to be one to watch, to see if he is Laird JR, or something much more special.

  101. Pat M. March 11th, 2012 at 8:07 pm

    It all starts with pitching…

  102. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 8:09 pm

    he averaged about 20-22 HR a season in seattle.

    He managed to hit 25 per year for his 27 28 and 29 year seasons. The difference in slugging from his SEA days to boston were an abundance of doubles, which as a righty going into the green monster is understandable. And of course 20% is nothing without what its being taken from, but I don’t see Montero losing 8 HRs off a 35-36 HR season due to SafeCo.

  103. PhiltheThrill March 11th, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    And that’s why they made a great pitcher named Babe Ruth into a hitter.

    Jason,

    We really do have some possible big bats down there, unfortunately, we traded the bridge to the rest of the young talent, and will have to slog through two or more years of an aging roster aging more.

  104. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    Pat M. March 11th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
    It all starts with pitching…
    ——–

    Literally

  105. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    “trisha – I have no problem understanding or arguing the need for a bat in the lineup.

    I get that you love Pinedaa so you need to fight off the argument of having both. I HATE this trade.”

    Lock. Wrong. It’s that I understand why it happened. There’s a difference. I wouldn’t try to come up with some bogus reasoning just because I liked the Pineda part of the trade.

    Here’s what appeared to be the Yankee’s logic and reasoning:

    1. With the uncertainty of AJ (on the trading block because of it) and the uncertainty of Hughes from last season, startiing pitching was a necessity. (Yanks were 12th in the majors last year in pitching.)

    2. The Yankees were 2nd in runs last year, thus making the urgency for a bat really a nonissue.

    2. The Yankees were not committed to Montero as their catcher of the future.

    3. The Yankees were keeping the DH position fluid for the sake of resting current players and eventually segueing current long-term contract “older” players.

    4. Montero became odd man out.

    *********

    If the Yankees were in the top of the majors in pitching last season, or if AJ and Hughes had great seasons last season and the rotation was solid – I’d be very depressed at this moment if Montero had been traded for pitching.

    But I still think that we were probably looking at one more season at the most for Montero unless they started to groom him for another position.

    They needed to trade for starting pitching and Montero unfortunately was the most desirable and accessible trading piece.

  106. luis March 11th, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    Crawdaddy,

    Sorry i didn’t answered before, had to go to do some chores. To be honest i laughed at your Groundhog day remark, but i thought it was as a valid opinion as was Rich’s. What i’m trying to say is that no one can dictate the subjects to be discussed in the blog. Do i think it should have more variety, sure. But i think this is one of the most controversial trades that i can recall in the past 20 years, so i don’t think is going away any time soon.

  107. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    I’m hoping that once the season begins, posters will focus on the season and all the Yankees have going for them and not keep reliving the trade (probably an impossible dream) or worse, spend the whole season talking about what’s going to happen in 2014.

    It will be such a joy to be able to discuss the season with anyone who actually knows how to deal in the present!

    BD, step forward now!

  108. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    “It all starts with pitching…”

    I look foward to enjoying the season with you too, Pat M.

    Fans are not the best with remembering the following:

    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    Today is a gift; that’s why they call it the present

    Carpe diem people. The PRESENT diem!

  109. luis March 11th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    luis – best I can say is that the Yankees didn’t feel that both Romine and Montero were in the Yankee plans.

    We won’t always agree with what they do, but who’s to say that we have it right?

    We may end up giving many players over the years who end up being great elsewhere. Sometimes that’s a price you pay to get other players you need.

    It’s easy to see that there are various camps here on this one. Who’s to say which camp has it right? Nothing. All opinion.

    ==========================

    Trisha,

    Sorry it took me so long to answer. True, is only an opinion. Only time will tell, and for the sake of the team i do hope that i am on the wrong side.

  110. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    I’m hoping that once the season begins, posters will focus on the season and all the Yankees have going for them and not keep reliving the trade (probably an impossible dream) or worse, spend the whole season talking about what’s going to happen in 2014.

    I’m hoping that once the season begins some posters will realize baseball extends beyond the Yankees, and won’t gripe so much about certain people discussing a player on another team.

  111. Tom in N.J. March 11th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Gregg Bird:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?f.....QZYRCFOso#!

  112. stuckey March 11th, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    “But i think this is one of the most controversial trades that i can recall in the past 20 years, so i don’t think is going away any time soon.”

    Then Luis, with all due courtesy, your definition of “controversial” is questionable.

    The only controversy this trade has generated has been within small pockets of Yankee fans were a few voices make up a significant amount of the population, so it appears a “controversy” is raging.

    And when you consider that, the logic becomes circular. You’re attempting to explain away the repetition by citing the controversy, which is being generated solely by the people responsible for the repetition.

    Outside of a hardcore fan forum like this one where 10 posters are a lot, where does this “controversy” exist? So where else it is raging?

    It’s raging almost exclusively in the minds of those 10 people.

    Which is kind of the entire point.

  113. Villa Nova-Ya March 11th, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    If the Yankees continue to win w/o Montero, no matter what Pineda does, no matter what Montero does, that is all that is important in the long run, IMHO.

  114. Jerkface March 11th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Humans can do 2 things at once, so I think its entirely possible for people to both enjoy the Yankees season/root for the team while discussing other things. Give us some credit as advanced organisms.

  115. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    the yankees were fourth in the american league in pitching in 2011 , virtually tied for third.

    they had very good pitching.

  116. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    the yankees can actually win without pineda and without montero which was why the trade was pointless.

  117. stuckey March 11th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    “I’m hoping that once the season begins some posters will realize baseball extends beyond the Yankees, and won’t gripe so much about certain people discussing a player on another team.”

    Here’s the thing, though Jerkface.

    Any rational person here should be able to acknowledge that discussion of another player is largely going to be driven to stick to the other posters, whether that players is very good or very bad.

    This topic has long since ceased being organic or genuine.

    That baseball extends past the Yankees is absolutely right but almost irrelevant in this case.

    That player is going to be discussed not due to mutual interest in the player, but as the biggest game of “I told you so” in the history of this forum.

  118. stuckey March 11th, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    “the yankees can actually win without pineda and without montero which was why the last 2 months wasted in this forum was pointless.”

    Fixed.

  119. RadioKev March 11th, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    stuckey March 11th, 2012 at 8:26 pm
    “the yankees can actually win without pineda and without montero which was why the last 2 months wasted in this forum was pointless.”

    Fixed.
    ———

    +1

  120. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    “Only time will tell, and for the sake of the team i do hope that i am on the wrong side.”

    Best we can all do is keep an open mind and think positively!

  121. luis March 11th, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    Stuckey,

    First, i would say that this is the best blog in the world…Lots of very intelligent and knowledgeable people around…If most fans were as good as those you find in this blog, believe me there would be a controversy raging all over….The reason it is not happening is because most fans are casual and don’t follow baseball as close as some others do.

  122. mick March 11th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    That player is going to be discussed not due to mutual interest in the player, but as the biggest game of “I told you so” in the history of this forum.
    ===============================
    A game played by children.

  123. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Very good pitching with a surefire rotation of CC.

    It’s a good thing you’re not in charge of the Yankees.

  124. LockDown March 11th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    I’m hoping that once the season begins, posters will focus on the season and all the Yankees have going for them and not keep reliving the trade (probably an impossible dream) or worse, spend the whole season talking about what’s going to happen in 2014.
    ———-

    trisha – It’s not about relieving the trade. living in the past etc. It’s about looking forward to watching a certain player/s who are not currently in a yankee uniform. It’s VERY disappointing. I’m not going to just act like certain players don’t exist just to satisfy a bunch of strangers on a blog. Yu and Montero are the top 2 players I was most excited to see in 2012 & I have every intention of keeping track of them and watching their games. And I don’t see why this should bother anyone ;)

    Also, as I said before I understand the need for pitching. We differ in that you believe the only way to get it was to trade… I disagree. :neutral:

  125. mick March 11th, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    There was more to this trade than meets the eye.
    They were going to trade him and this was the best they could get at the time.
    Imagine what they would have gotten if this wasn’t available?
    Jack Z saw it the 1st time for Lee and just waited.
    Both teams knew what they had better than the other one did.

  126. randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    the yankees were 4th in the american league in pithing in 2011. period.

    any era ranking with national league teams is silly because of no dh in the national league.

  127. Stoneburner March 11th, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    randy l. March 11th, 2012 at 7:30 pm
    jerkface-

    what percentage will safeco knock down montero’s home run production.

    i’m guessing off the top of my head 20 %.

    *********

    Montero’s ability to hit to rightfield should help him – Safeco will not Adrian Beltre him – if he does not hit as the next Frank Thomas, Albert Pujols, or Frank Robinson – then maybe the fan boys were off and just maybe he is a very good hitter who might be able catch versus a once in a generation hitter as promised by certain posters.

  128. mick March 11th, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    the agenda was to trade him, better off letting it go…

  129. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 11th, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    “the agenda was to trade him, better off letting it go…”

    Apparently it was. I think J Al may have even mentioned that he was worried when Montero wasn’t playing winter ball. Someone mentioned it anyway. And others alluded to thinking he was going to be an eventual trading chip.

    And he was mentioned in trade talk before.

    Smart money should have told people the handwriting was on the wall.

    mick, not everyone can adjust to things out of their control.

    Apparently you, I, and several others can.

    If I reacted to everything that wasn’t of my liking, I probably wouldn’t survive!

    :)

    ***********

    Lock, best I can tell you is that I don’t let my disappointment take hold of me. I take hold of it. Been there, done that, extremely unproductive and a total waste of time.

    I said numerous times on this forum (it’s there for the checking) that the Yankees would NEVER trade Montero. I said to take it to the bank. I was wrong. They traded him. I allowed myself real tears when it happened. And then I got a grip. I understood why it happened, and my way is always to look at the big picture, not a snapshot in time.

    I intend to enjoy the hell out of this season, the way I do every season. I don’t flip out when the Yankees lose and I have total faith in their ability to be there in the postseason. I’m not a micromanager. I don’t sweat the small stuff.

    Posters are free to do what they want, to knock themselves out with stress, to jump up and down, to be as negative as they want and to cast a pall on the entire forum if they so choose. I’ve lived through that too.

    I’ll just play with the happy posters!

    :)

  130. mick March 11th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    he was worried when Montero wasn’t playing winter ball.
    ===================================
    it was obvious.
    they could have gotten less
    the deals diminished in value as they were proffered.


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