The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Betances standing tall

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 13, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

You don’t always get a reaction like this from Joe Girardi. He’s supportive of his players, but he reacts a little differently when he’s really, truly impressed.

So, did Dellin Betances look better last night?

“Ohhhh yeah,” Girardi said, stretching out that first word for emphasis. “From the first time he pitched to this time, much much better. Tonight he had good stuff.”

Girardi dismissed some early mechanical and command issues for Betances — “It’s spring training,” Girardi said — and the past two times out, the Yankees top right-handed pitching prospect has shown why his upside is so significant. When he’s able to stay consistent, he can be an outstanding pitcher. During two scoreless innings last night, he looked pretty outstanding, much like what Girardi had seen in a side session a few days earlier.

“What I saw in the side is what I saw tonight,” Girardi said. “Good curveball. Good changeup. Good fastball. Throwing a lot of strikes. I’ve seen a lot of growth between his first outing and this one, which, you expect to see from our guys. It’s what you go through in spring training.”

Associated Press photo

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416 Responses to “Betances standing tall”

  1. Against All Odds March 13th, 2012 at 8:55 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 12:09 am
    J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 12:08 am
    yfem, yes ma’am. I think Joba also should be given….NM.
    _____
    Odds can finish the sentence for you.
    ///

    He’ll be along any minute ;) . Wanna see me whistle for him?

    JOBA CHAMBERLAIN IS A STAHTIN’ PITCHAH!
    ………
    ………
    ………
    ?????
    ——–

    Looks like I missed the party last night. :(

  2. blake March 13th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Here is hoping JAP, YF, and all those Betances peoples are correct!

  3. Benny Blanco March 13th, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Blake,

    If you had to bet, what are the chances betances (hey, that rhymes) gets traded?

  4. blake March 13th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Benny,

    50/50. Just a guess. I think this is a big year for him….both for his career and future with the Yanks.

  5. Benny Blanco March 13th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Blake, If Betances and manny had no hiccups (injuries) the last two seasons I would think that they would’ve been ready to contribute.

    I looked at Matt Moores minor league numbers and he had back to back years in which he pitched 140+ innings.. Thus allowing he time to get seasoned and work on his development.

  6. blake March 13th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Betances is still a young guy….but he needs a step forward this year….if he just spins his wheels and doesn’t improve his consistency with control/command then you’re looking at a guy nearing 25 who is still in the minors…..and you would have to start wondering if he will ever put it together enough to start.

    Now he is a big guy so maybe they’ll wait longer because it takes those guys longer sometimes to figure it out……but the problem is that the Yanks have a lot of guys comibg and a lot of competition now for those 5 spots……I don’t think they’ll want to keep Betances down as a project if he has trade value….

    Here is hoping he jumps forward this year and makes everything I just said a non issue….he certainly could

  7. blake March 13th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Benny,

    I haven’t looked in awhile but I think Moore was in A ball still when he was 20 years old…..Manny was the youngest guy in the International League as a 20 year old…..Moore was a good prospect early but somewhere along the way he really dialed in his command and approach and that’s when he took off…..hopefully Banuelos will do the same and if so he will be the best pitching prospect in baseball this time next year IMO……I think folks undersell his upside…..

  8. Bronx Jeers March 13th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Last night the Astros radio announcers kept going on about how big the Yankees pitchers are.

    And then Dellin took the mound. :lol:

  9. blake March 13th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    If Manny can consistently throw his breaking ball for strikes…..and command his fastball on the inner half to righties ..he could be a #1. He’s got the stuff….he’s got the delivery…..it all depends on how good he gets at locating.

  10. Nick in SF March 13th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    I’m at Gate 28. Good omen. #yankeenumerology

  11. blake March 13th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Nick,

    Where we off to today?

  12. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 9:30 am

    “blake March 13th, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Basically I think the Yanks have finally figured out that brining up pitchers before they are ready accomplishes neither of their goals……it doesn’t help you win and it doesn’t help you develop the player.

    —————————–

    Wish they figured that out earlier”

    =====================
    it’s not always that cut-and-dried. in may of 2006 the phillies promoted a 22 year old with only 200 innings in the minors (23 in aaa) and who was sliding backwards on ba’s prospect list (from 17 to 71 to 68). cole hammels went 9-8, 4.08k, 132IP 145K 1.25whip that year, the next he led the phillies to thier first playoffs in a generation and the following year he won the WS MVP leading the phillies to the championship.

  13. Nick in SF March 13th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Mexico. Gotta get away from the Blogger Battles.

  14. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    *4.08 era, not k, sorry*

  15. blake March 13th, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Ys,

    Things like that can happen of course….but if you’re going to do that then you need to be patient….your dans need to be patient….and both need to endure the struggles and not freak out about them. You can develop guys in the big leagues….but all parties….the player, the team, and the fans have to understand ans accept that the kid isn’t going to be great immediately in most cases…..Tim Lincecums are so rare….

  16. pat March 13th, 2012 at 9:36 am

    “Good omen”

    Good almonds? :wink:

  17. Bronx Jeers March 13th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Do you have your bowtie camera with you?

  18. Nick in SF March 13th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    I still haven’t posted Yankee hat pics from two trips ago… :oops: but I will be on the lookout.

  19. upstate kate March 13th, 2012 at 9:39 am

    Blake
    it is fine for the Dans to be patient, but what about the rest of us?

  20. Bronx Jeers March 13th, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Trump rips ARod ? WTF

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....-1.1037840

  21. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    i have no idea why anyone pays any attention to The Donald Clown

  22. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    The thing with Dellin is that trading him doesn’t really make sense: His arm is too valuable. There is really no one pushing him at AA, and no one behind him with that kind of power arm with two other plus pitches. Yankees know that; also he missed part of two seasons with the elbow injury, so the Yankees won’t show the kind of impatience that fans do with him. That he has stayed healthy two years in a row is a huge plus. I expect big things from him in 2012.

  23. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    “it’s not always that cut-and-dried.”

    baseball is a probability game.

    small samples can go in either direction.

    i think that having the goal to never miss making the playoffs creates a different situation for the yankees than any other team.

    it is very hard to develop and win at the same time.

    and the closer that management is to the problem, the easier it is sometimes to overreact to needing to win rather than taking their time with players, pitchers especially.

    hughes is the classic example of overreaction to needing to win. however,they are doing a really good job of keeping the two B’s on a slower path.

    i think they went too far in adding pitching insurance with pineda because the cost of this insurance was pricey in losing montero, but with or without pineda or montero ,the yankees should do extremely well this year in the regular season.

    so while i hate what management did with montero, they have the yankees overall in a strong overall position relative to the league. this will come in handy with that other set of “enemy” fans- red sox fans that surround me on cape cod.

    as an aside,it’s interesting that that are two sets of fans i don’t like now. there is the obvious red sox obnoxious fan ,and now there is the hostile blog yankee fan who is just as objectionable . it’s kind of like politics where in a general election you vote against the enemy party, but in the primaries people on the same side have huge differences.

    but back to the original point, it’s all a probability game. it’s going to take a season for everything to play out.

  24. Normando March 13th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    mick – last week you passed along some tips on getting autographs at spring training – thanks very much. At Friday’s game, my 9-year old son got Bret Gardner’s autograph (he signed stuff for about 20 minutes!) and got to see up-close a few rounds of players do batting practice with Kevin Long. Very fun day.

  25. pat March 13th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    New Rule #3- If a Yankee beat writer asks a player to comment on something Donald Trump has said he should have his press credentials pulled for the season.

  26. Tackelberry March 13th, 2012 at 9:57 am

    Whats the deal with Jeremy Bleich? Is he expected to pitch this year?

  27. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Tackel, yes, Bleich is expected to pitch this year. They had talked about getting him into live games in September, but didn’t get a chance to. He is supposedly healthy.

  28. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    larger minor league sample sizes can also be misleading. the yankees has an overripe unrated and unremarkable starter with 400 innings in the minors who posted a 5.81 era/1.41 whip in his 6 aaa starts, promoted him anyway and he turned into the greatest closer of all times!

    ya never know…

  29. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:04 am

    yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 9:49 am
    The thing with Dellin is that trading him doesn’t really make sense: His arm is too valuable. There is really no one pushing him at AA, and no one behind him with that kind of power arm with two other plus pitches. Yankees know that; also he missed part of two seasons with the elbow injury, so the Yankees won’t show the kind of impatience that fans do with him. That he has stayed healthy two years in a row is a huge plus. I expect big things from him in 2012.
    ////

    Yes, if he stays healthy, he should force his way into matters next ST.

    He’s got dominant talent and is cheap as well.

    The arm is not easily replaced, and the perception that it’s no sweat to do so shows just how much misinformation there is out there on this guy.

  30. Bronx Jeers March 13th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    If I was ARod I would have at least said ” I like his hair” or something like that.

  31. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:05 am

    “The thing with Dellin is that trading him doesn’t really make sense:”

    I don’t think it does now no…unless obviosuky a great deal came along for a bat…..but if say he doesn’t progress this year and the Yanks start to view him as a reliver….then it would be wise to shop him as a starter to other teams IMO.

    The last thing you want is for an arm like that to wind up pitching the 7th inning…..you either want them in your rotation….being your closer….or traded for good value to somebody else who sees him in one of those roles. I don’t want to see Joba 2.0

  32. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    “i have no idea why anyone pays any attention to The Donald Clown”

    it’s probably the billion dollars.

    the weird thing about trump is he actually is a pretty good athlete.

    i watched one of his golf shows where damon was one of the golfers.

    maybe derek lowe was the competing golfer.

    at one point damon egged on trump to play a hole. trump birdied the hole i think wothout warming up. trump has a butt ugly swing but it’s effective.

    and then lowe through a pitch to him. (they somehow had a bat and ball there on the course.)
    one pitch and trump smoked it to what would have been centerfield.

    the guy has a big mouth, but he does seem to have some game in him.

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Donald Trump eats too much goose liver pate to be taken seriously.

    Who cares what the idle rich say about anything? Other than having money, they’re mediocre.

  34. RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 9:49 am
    The thing with Dellin is that trading him doesn’t really make sense: His arm is too valuable. There is really no one pushing him at AA, and no one behind him with that kind of power arm with two other plus pitches. Yankees know that; also he missed part of two seasons with the elbow injury, so the Yankees won’t show the kind of impatience that fans do with him. That he has stayed healthy two years in a row is a huge plus. I expect big things from him in 2012.
    —————–

    It could make total sense depending on the deal. Why wouldn’t it? This could be his “sell high” moment, before he’s perceived to be just a reliever.

    I’m not saying that’s what they should do, but there’s no sense being overly optimistic about the guy because of a couple of spring training innings. He has to put it all together throughout the course of a season.

  35. Tackelberry March 13th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Too bad about Burawa. He was pitching well and making a good impression this Spring, even though he had no shot at making the team. Oh well, hopefully he recovers quickly and joins Trenton, where he is supposedely headed this year

  36. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:09 am

    if trump demands to see arod’s birth certificate, then we’ll know he’s trolling.

  37. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:10 am

    I suspect Cashman is searching behind the scenes for an outfielder……an alternative to Swisher…..if he’s not then he should be.

  38. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    “i think that having the goal to never miss making the playoffs creates a different situation for the yankees than any other team

    “i think they went too far in adding pitching insurance with pineda”

    Randy, this argument seems to indirectly imply the Yankees motivation to acquire Pineda was to insure THIS year.

    Do you agree or not agree that regardless of any subjective stance on the quality of the trade, Pineda was acquired as a potential long-term cog?

    “it’s going to take many seasons for everything to play out.”

    Fixed.

  39. ron March 13th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    A lot of when,and if a pitcher comes up,is about timing,innings,and having 3 pitches.

  40. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    I don’t think it does now no…unless obviosuky a great deal came along for a bat…..but if say he doesn’t progress this year and the Yanks start to view him as a reliver….then it would be wise to shop him as a starter to other teams IMO.
    ///

    The reliever talk deserves no credit. It’s a joke.

  41. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    “it’s probably the billion dollars.”

    Donald Trump doesn’t have a billion dollars.

    That’s he’s mega-wealthy is a pop culture myth.

  42. mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    normando-you are very welcome, glad I could help your son get some autographs, Hope you did too, give them to him.

  43. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    The fangraphs top 100 prospects is out. Manny #38. Campos #65. Betances #68. Mason #98.

    The fact that Gary Sanchez isn’t on the list at all sorta discredits it a bit IMO.

  44. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    I don’t want to see Joba 2.0
    ////

    Dave Eiland’s gone :D

  45. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Campos in A ball ahead of Betances? Right. Next.

  46. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    “Do you agree or not agree that regardless of any subjective stance on the quality of the trade, Pineda was acquired as a potential long-term cog?”

    absolutely not because if pineda wasn’t being counted on to win games this year, he’d be at triple a to start the season to work on getting a plus change which would almost guarantee he’s be a #2 and maybe an ace.

    pineda is being rushed so the two B’s wont be.

    pineda is in effect taking one for the team.

  47. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:15 am

    “The reliever talk deserves no credit. It’s a joke.”

    Can we really be sure the Yankees wont move him to the bullpen if he doesn’t take a step forward this year?

  48. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    blake, he will progress IMO. First of all he needs to repeat better, but his control issues are blown out of proportion, and with his arsenal I doubt the Yankees view him as a reliever. With Joba we unfortunately made a bad call. However, we now have a plethora of young power bullpen arms on the horizon. Betances is a starter and could put it all together sooner than people think.

  49. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Tackelberry March 13th, 2012 at 10:09 am
    Too bad about Burawa. He was pitching well and making a good impression this Spring, even though he had no shot at making the team. Oh well, hopefully he recovers quickly and joins Trenton, where he is supposedely headed this year
    ///

    yep this is heartbreaking. The Trenton bullpen welcomes ANY help, btw.

  50. Triple Short of a Cycle March 13th, 2012 at 10:17 am

    How can anyone take Trump seriously when he eats Pizza with a knife and a fork

  51. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    you can’t dismiss a guy who throws as hard as betances as a possible closer. especially on a team that is going to be in need of one next season. let’s hope that betances never works out of the bullpen, but i’m sure he’s somewhere on the list of possible future closers and he should be.

  52. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Daniel Norris is #53. He’s the guy the Yanks coukd have drafted last year but passed probably because of the money….Toronto stepped up.

  53. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    “Here at FORBES, we’ve been tracking Donald Trump‘s wealth since the inaugural Forbes 400 rich list in 1982. Today, we value him at $2.7 billion, although he claims he’s worth far more”

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/cl.....k-for-him/

  54. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:19 am

    “How can anyone take Trump seriously when he eats Pizza with a knife and a fork”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    check his birth certificate, nobody who’s actually from queens would ever been seen using cutlery on a piece of pie…

  55. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:20 am

    blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:15 am
    “The reliever talk deserves no credit. It’s a joke.”

    Can we really be sure the Yankees wont move him to the bullpen if he doesn’t take a step forward this year?
    ///

    I just think LR is too smart for that. I also just can’t conceive of it, since I can’t imagine him not taking that step. I think if he stays healthy, the world’s his oyster. Ubaldo’s his floor and sky’s the limit.

  56. RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    yankeefeminista,

    Why is it likely Betances will put it together soon? Other than optimism?

    I’m not hating on him, but we’ve got to come back down to earth on him. He’s got great stuff, he could become a great starter, but guys like this bust every single year in baseball.

  57. Triple Short of a Cycle March 13th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    So if Betances flames out then all hopes will be put on Banuelos to get anything out of the B’s. 6 years plus into Cash changing the drafting philosophy and still looking for that number 2 guy. I really hope they don’t screw Campos up

  58. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:18 am
    you can’t dismiss a guy who throws as hard as betances as a possible closer. especially on a team that is going to be in need of one next season. let’s hope that betances never works out of the bullpen, but i’m sure he’s somewhere on the list of possible future closers and he should be.
    ///

    No, not with the weapons he has. It’s unthinkable.

  59. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    blake, yeah, no Sanchez on the list is a joke; but relying on fangraphs for prospect analysis… um, no. They don’t even scout the players.

    As for Campos being ranked second in Yankees system… ahead of Betances, Sanchez and Mason Williams, that says it all about their amateur analysis. I love Campos’ potential too, but many think he has only one pitch right now, albeit a very well commanded power fastball… fangraphs and prospects = oxymoronic.

  60. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:23 am

    “you can’t dismiss a guy who throws as hard as betances as a possible closer”

    how hard does he throw?

  61. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 10:24 am

    “absolutely not because if pineda wasn’t being counted on to win games this year,”

    That’s not mutually exclusive Randy. Suggesting he’s being viewed as a long-term piece does not mean the Yankees aren’t expecting him to serve as an effective part of their 5 man rotation this year.

    Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say he’s BOTH 2012 rotation insurance AND (being 23 years old with 5 cost-controlled years left_ a piece of the puzzle for no less than potentially through 2016 (and perhaps beyond, beyond being a long-term Yankee career)?

    YOUR view and how it differs from the Yankees on how to best prepare Pineda long-term also does not invalidate the fact the Yankees likely acquired him for long-term.

    Your post characterized the trade a young hitter for effectively a one-year rental, as if it’s ALL about what they get from him in 2012, rather than PARTLY about that.

    I just want to be clear if that is what you indeed meant.

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:25 am

    RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 10:22 am
    yankeefeminista,

    Why is it likely Betances will put it together soon? Other than optimism?
    ///

    She’s seen him pitch. A lot. :D

  63. Triple Short of a Cycle March 13th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    “Here at FORBES, we’ve been tracking Donald Trump‘s wealth since the inaugural Forbes 400 rich list in 1982. Today, we value him at $2.7 billion, although he claims he’s worth far more”

    —————————————————————————————–

    The man is a habitual liar. Why would a “billionaire” be on reality TV unless he needed the money

  64. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:27 am

    how hard does he throw?
    ///

    sits 93-95, hits 96 often, tops out at 97, occasionally 98.

    There are false readings on the net because some are based on his low 90s 2-seamer.

  65. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 10:22 am
    yankeefeminista,

    Why is it likely Betances will put it together soon? Other than optimism?

    I’m not hating on him, but we’ve got to come back down to earth on him. He’s got great stuff, he could become a great starter, but guys like this bust every single year in baseball.
    _______
    Because I have seen him pitch and repeat his delivery over long stretches. I think he is closer than people think.

    Why is there optimism that Pineda will learn a changeup? Optimism?

    Ys, I hope not. I think we will be patient. However, it’ll be a good test to see how smart we have or haven’t become re: developing SP’s.

  66. mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:28 am

    are you guys scouts, don’t mean to be disrespectful but have you ever been wrong ?

  67. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Betances was touching 99 later in summer 2011.

  68. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    “YOUR view and how it differs from the Yankees on how to best prepare Pineda long-term also does not invalidate the fact the Yankees likely acquired him for long-term.”

    i think the yankees are gambling that they can teach pineda a change up on the fly while he has to win in yankee stadium.

    i think they are perfectly prepared that if he doesn’t develop the change because he’s rushed, they’ll use him up and dump him off in a few years. no big deal.

    they are clearly not doing what’s best for his career. they are doing what’s best for the yankees.

  69. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    yankfem, that he was. He also maintains his velo throughout games, so I have to LOL at these reports that his “velo is inconsistent”. Yeah, it’s inconsistent because you’re getting 2-seam readings and conflating them with the heater, geniuses.

  70. randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    “sits 93-95, hits 96 often, tops out at 97, occasionally 98.”

    so what separates betances and pineda?

    i’m guessing command.

  71. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    YF,

    Yea Im not sure how Fangraohs compiles their list….their think is supposedly objective analysis and prospect evaluation is much much more than that as the numbers don’t always line up with reality.

    I don’t put a lot of stock in that list…..just posted because its out there….

  72. RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Why is there optimism that Pineda will learn a changeup? Optimism?
    ——————

    Pineda throws a change up. That’s a fact. The sky is blue, and Pineda throws a change up.

  73. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 10:31 am

    “Donald Trump’s forthcoming book, Time To Get Tough, suggests his net worth sits just a smidge over $US7 billion.

    “The real estate mogul and reality television star recently lost a defamation lawsuit against the book writer Timothy L. O’Brien, who wrote in Trump Nation that Trump wasn’t a billionaire.

    “O’Brien claimed Trump’s worth was actually between $150 million and $250 million.”

    Trump says $7B. Forbes say $2.9B

    There’s already a disparity.

    Randy, ask yourself why a billionaire needs to do a TV show twice a year?

    Ask why he never runs for public office (tax disclosure) or why he always flirts with the media about running for office when the new season of his TV show is about to debut?

  74. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:32 am

    mick, disclaimer: I am not a scout nor do I play one on Lohud. (When you see my posts on prospects I actually go watch play, just add that to them.)

    Also add to everyone else’s posts on Yankees payroll or trade ideas that they are not baseball GM’s or bona fide baseball people. And for those who keep psychoanalyzing us, that they lack appropriate psych and psychiatrist degrees, etc. See, it is so easy to add in qualifiers that will make everyone happy and cooperative. :mrgreen:

  75. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    while pineda didn’t use the change effectively last year, coming out of the minors it was considered a plus pitch for him. we will see how it develops and whether he will be able to rely on it in the majors, but its not like he’s trying to learn a new pitch in ST.

  76. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    “they are clearly not doing what’s best for his career. they are doing what’s best for the yankees.”

    That may or may not be true, but that doesn’t change the fact they didn’t acquire him strictly for 2012 “insurance” which is what you implied.

    The question I’ve been asking you is a simple yes or no one. Doesn’t mean it can’t have nuance, but you’ve yet to respond directly.

    Do you think the Yankees acquired him with the INTENTIONS for him to be a Yankee for many years…

    Yes or no?

  77. tomingeorgia March 13th, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Triple,
    Because he’s an attention seeker, and says it’s fun.

  78. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Remember all the outcry when Juan Miranda was traded – how Arizona was going to get a really good bat out of the deal because they would let him play…stuff like that?

    Worth noting that Miranda (after being let go by Arizona) was optioned to AAA by the Rays yesterday. Just a friendly reminder that not every player who comes up through the Yankee organization is destined for stardom.

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:36 am

    randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:31 am
    “sits 93-95, hits 96 often, tops out at 97, occasionally 98.”

    so what separates betances and pineda?

    i’m guessing command.
    //

    command, but Betances already has a plus changeup. Betances doesn’t repeat as well, but he’s also got a far less violent delivery.

    John Harper reported his delivery is violent, but he’s about 3 years behind the times, to pre ligament replacement Betances.

    They’ve simplified his delivery to help him repeat, and it hasn’t seemed to take any sharp movement or velo from his stuff. His delivery is pretty clean, actually, the problem is he loses his release point at times. I don’t see it as fatal, though, because he’s good at self-correcting.

  80. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 10:31 am
    Why is there optimism that Pineda will learn a changeup? Optimism?
    ——————

    Pineda throws a change up. That’s a fact. The sky is blue, and Pineda throws a change up.
    ____
    The expression “Learn a changeup” here implies not that he throws one but that it will be a usable changeup that keeps batters off his fastball. Phil Hughes also throws a changeup. So, does AJ (sometimes). I am optimistic that Pineda will have a serviceable one. But I don’t know for sure. I am not being snarky; I am just making a point. I am optimistic about both pitchers, but I have a better grasp of what Betances can and can’t do vs. how successful Pineda will be at learning a changeup. Nothing is certain in both Betances’s and Pineda’s case, as nothing is certain in this life.

  81. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    randy l. March 13th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    “YOUR view and how it differs from the Yankees on how to best prepare Pineda long-term also does not invalidate the fact the Yankees likely acquired him for long-term.”

    i think the yankees are gambling that they can teach pineda a change up on the fly while he has to win in yankee stadium.
    ————————-

    Didn’t you say yesterday that Pineda already has a changeup. That his lack of a changeup was a myth?

  82. mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    mick, disclaimer: I am not a scout nor do I play one on Lohud. (When you see my posts on prospects I actually go watch play, just add that to them.)
    =======================================
    add to what? i asked a simple question, as i said not to be disrespectful, you seem to know a lot.
    again, have you ever been wrong on a prospect?

  83. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    I’d also add that Betances is a K guy who gets a lot of groundballs, and handles LHB very well.

    That’s gold in Yankee Stadium for a RHP.

  84. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Triple Short of a Cycle March 13th, 2012 at 10:26 am

    “Here at FORBES, we’ve been tracking Donald Trump‘s wealth since the inaugural Forbes 400 rich list in 1982. Today, we value him at $2.7 billion, although he claims he’s worth far more”

    —————————————————————————————–

    The man is a habitual liar. Why would a “billionaire” be on reality TV unless he needed the money
    ————————-

    He’s also the only man who names everything he does after himself – he’s big into self promotion and this is another avenue for it.

  85. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Chip, Juan Miranda. Great comp. :roll:

  86. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Whether YF is a scout or not its pretty clear that she/he understands the game and how to evaluate players…..you can tell that just by reading. Real scouts aren’t always right either….

  87. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:38 am

    I’d also add that Betances is a K guy who gets a lot of groundballs, and handles LHB very well.

    That’s gold in Yankee Stadium for a RHP.
    ——————

    Can we wait for the guy to get more than a handfull of innings about AA before we start imagining greatness for him at Yankee Stadium?

  88. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:42 am

    “Remember all the outcry when Juan Miranda was traded”

    Not really

  89. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    mick, why don’t you contribute to the baseball conversation and discuss something in earnest?

  90. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Chip, Juan Miranda. Great comp
    ———————-

    Wasn’t comparing Miranda to anyone – was just stating a fact that there are people who were enraged about the Yankees trading Miranda and now two other organizations have determined the same thing the Yankees did – that he’s minor league filler. Maybe we (as fans) should accept that the professionals actually know what they’re talking about.

  91. BIG AL March 13th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    Around here, its like the news room tracking the Vietnam War;

    Today on LoHud, the NY Yankees blog, is day 65 of the discussion of the Montero for Pineda trade. Both sides are still entrenched in a back and forth debate as to which player will out perform the other, this season, and going forward. It has been reported by some that the HOF committee may be meeting soon to induct Montero before he plays a full season, and well before he retires from the game, he’s that good. Its been reported by some he is Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and Albert Pujols all in one. The M’s are said to be in the process of erecting a 25′ bronze statue of Montero, as we go to press. Please stay tuned, more news to follow.
    :)

  92. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    betances’ delivery looked pretty smooth to me (not a scout) the times i’ve seen him. a little deliberate which seems to throw hitter’s timing off a bit, but definitely smooth.

  93. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Big Al -

    I hear that sculptors from around the world are vying for the honor of casting Montero’s bust for the Hall of Fame.

  94. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    Randy, definitely Pineda’s got much better command. Betances has great swing and miss stuff and Pruf is right, a good changeup to go with the FB and CB. He needs to work on command and his release point. Hopefully, you can watch him if he pitches next in the televised game on Saturday.

  95. mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    yf, that’s relative…

  96. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Ys guy, yeah Betances’s delivery is pretty smooth. Pruf’s right; it is more about his sometimes losing his release point.

  97. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:28 am
    are you guys scouts, don’t mean to be disrespectful but have you ever been wrong ?
    ////

    Do you yourself want to contribute something instead of playing your tiresome “you’re not a real scout” game?

    Or maybe go find a post from YF, or anyone here who has advanced a baseball-related opinion, in which they declare themselves a “scout”?

  98. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    I haven’t seen Dellin pitch a ton….but when he has issues the times I have seen him its been as simple as him opening up his front side and not getting it closed at release……it keeps him up in the zone….kills velocity….and flattens out breaking stuff….that’s a correctable thing…but in general I think taller guys have more trouble staying closed consistently because they just have so much to get over that front side.

  99. mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Do you yourself want to contribute something instead of playing your tiresome “you’re not a real scout” game?
    ==========
    you must be thinking of someone else.

  100. BIG AL March 13th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Chip -

    They’ll have to wait until the addition is completed, he’ll have his own wing at the HOF.

  101. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    “Chip, Juan Miranda. Great comp. :roll:”

    Relative comparability isn’t really the issue, never has been.

    It’s more an overarching issue, that infallibility doesn’t exist on any level in baseball.

    There seems to be a camp here that believes that if you obtain a certain status, then success is neatly guaranteed.

    This is the point being raised.

  102. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    some of you people are worse than children. You do realize that right?

  103. mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:51 am

    simple question.
    have you ever been wrong?
    i have, it’s not a crime.

  104. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:41 am
    Whether YF is a scout or not its pretty clear that she/he understands the game and how to evaluate players…..you can tell that just by reading. Real scouts aren’t always right either….
    ///

    Right and this whole “you’re not a scout” thing feels disingenuous. All one is doing is sharing one’s observations, on a baseball blog, theoretically about baseball.

  105. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    BIG AL March 13th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Chip -

    They’ll have to wait until the addition is completed, he’ll have his own wing at the HOF.
    ——————

    I heard there was talk of adding his face to Mt. Rushmore but that it would be an insult to his legacy to share the mountain face with four mere mortals.

  106. mick March 13th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    some of you people are worse than children. You do realize that right?
    ==================
    thats a good point chip.
    but do children hate like some here do?

  107. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    “Right and this whole “you’re not a scout” thing feels disingenuous. All one is doing is sharing one’s observations, on a baseball blog, theoretically about baseball.”

    I know….and I love that….why wouldn’t it be a good thing for folks that see these guys a lot to report what they see…..even if it is a little biased ;)

  108. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    blake, real scouts are always right; don’t question authority! ;)

  109. BIG AL March 13th, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Chip -

    He’s already bigger than that mere mountain, lol.

  110. BIG AL March 13th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Later folks – Life is calling.

  111. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Real scouts are pretty dumb a lot of the time ….especially the ones that wont attach their name to what they say.

  112. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    “There seems to be a camp here that believes that if you obtain a certain status, then success is neatly guaranteed.”
    _____
    Not aware of that camp, nor a member of it either. Broad generalization without any substantive support.

  113. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Trading Betances any time soon would be counterproductive to what they appear to be doing with their pitching because at this point, we don’t know which of the following: Pineda, Nova, Banuelos, Betances, will be an ace or a #2 (or a bust) in two years. They need to wait until then before moving one, UNLESS, they are overwhelmed with an impact young bat, especially one that plays 3B or SS.

  114. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    yf is OUR scout, along with gb7, giving us the first hand info on who’s doing what in the lower levels. and doing a great job of it, btw!

  115. blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:59 am

    I like that ESPN fantasy baseball commercial where the two pro wrestlers are “fighting” over Brett Gardner….speaking of Espn…..as much as the network has gone to pot in some regards….almost all of the short films they do are really good…the current Magic Johnson one included.

  116. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    “some of you people are worse than children. You do realize that right?”

    Look at political discourse on radio and cable news. We’re in an era where people believe being “correct” justifies the breakdown in civil discourse. That the ends justify the means.

    People no longer want to engage and try to persuade the persuadable. They want to win a fight, even if their ‘victory’ is only recognized by those who agreed with them in the first place.

    Its about “red meat”… “playing to the base”.

  117. Against All Odds March 13th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    “O’Brien claimed Trump’s worth was actually between $150 million and $250 million.”

    If that’s true then that is crazy when you think about it.

  118. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:01 am

    Stuckey –

    For whatever it is worth, my opinion is that success in the minor leagues is nice – it is certainly better than failure in the minor leagues – but it’s not a true indicator of success at the major league level or an indicator of success with a particular ball club. Additionally, the lower you go in the minors, the less important your stats become. Big fish in small pond theory.

    To get drafted you have to be very good against people your own age – so you should put up astronomical numbers in HS or college – and if you’re a legit prospect then you should also put up huge numbers against the chaff in A ball and Short Season. AA is a better indicator because usually you’re only getting there if you’re considered even a potential major leaguer. AAA where you have guys who have played in the show and prospects who are nearly show ready is even better and then obviously the ultimate key is how you perform in the majors.

    So like I said. Dellin’s AA numbers are nice – but until he shows something at AAA I’m not going to even start picturing him having more than a cup of coffee in the majors, much less put him up there with someone like Pineda who is already a successful major leaguer.

  119. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Trading Betances any time soon would be counterproductive to what they appear to be doing with their pitching because at this point, we don’t know which of the following: Pineda, Nova, Banuelos, Betances, will be an ace or a #2 (or a bust) in two years. They need to wait until then before moving one, UNLESS, they are overwhelmed with an impact young bat, especially one that plays 3B or SS.
    ———————————

    That’s not necessarily true – the Yankees aren’t necessarily acquiring pitching just so that they can have a wealth of pitching. They are acquiring pitching so that they can have resources to trade for other things.

    Now obviously I don’t think Brian Cashman is going to turn around and deal a Betances or Banuelos for a short term stop gap guy like a Scott Rolen. But if a deal comes along that makes the team better short and long term and it requires giving up Betances – then he will do it. The addition of Pineda gives him that flexibility.

  120. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:54 am
    “Right and this whole “you’re not a scout” thing feels disingenuous. All one is doing is sharing one’s observations, on a baseball blog, theoretically about baseball.”

    I know….and I love that….why wouldn’t it be a good thing for folks that see these guys a lot to report what they see…..even if it is a little biased. ;)
    __________
    Not sure…

    It is somehow considered taboo to discuss the milb players one has seen. As much as I want to hear about them, you had better not discuss the Charleston players here when you attend RiverDog games, Blake. Rather than a sharing of information, it will be perceived as a transgression. I categorically just don’t get the taboo here on discussing prospects. Everything we say is just an opinion. Duh.

  121. RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    That’s not necessarily true – the Yankees aren’t necessarily acquiring pitching just so that they can have a wealth of pitching. They are acquiring pitching so that they can have resources to trade for other things.
    ———

    I agree, that’s what I see here.

  122. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    blake March 13th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    Real scouts are pretty dumb a lot of the time ….especially the ones that wont attach their name to what they say.
    ——————

    Actually a scout who gives a quote (assuming he’s employed by a team) has to give a quote about players on other teams anonymously or else it could be construed as tampering.

  123. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Chip

    My point, as I said, is that we don’t know if Pineda is the best one at this point; he could be the third best. So until they know that, unless they are overwhelmed, they need to keep their powder dry.

  124. mick March 13th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    yf- i repeat, i did not mean to demean you , sorry you took it wrong, maybe others have tried to.

  125. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Not aware of that camp, nor a member of it either. Broad generalization without any substantive support.

    _______________

    You’re response to Chip suggests to you are in that camp, which would explain why you’re unaware of its existence.

    Again, he was making a broad point about fans often overestimating prospects, and feeling their evaluation was truer than their team, which did not recognize their value.

    You seemingly responded to that argument suggesting the player he used to make his point didn’t compare to Jesus Montero, therefore his point wasn’t valid.

    Which means you missed the point.

    Are you really arguing that this entire discourse has not been fueled by a select few fans that are utterly convinced the Yankees traded away NOT potentially, but almost certainly, one of the best hitters in baseball, an evaluation shared by little of the baseball world?

  126. blake March 13th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    YF,

    Ill be reporting assuming I actually get time to go.

    Chip,

    I understand that….but when Scout x tells something to Buster Olney we have no idea who he’s employees by or even if they are a scout at all.

  127. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    RadioKev March 13th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    That’s not necessarily true – the Yankees aren’t necessarily acquiring pitching just so that they can have a wealth of pitching. They are acquiring pitching so that they can have resources to trade for other things.
    ———

    I agree, that’s what I see here.
    ————-

    The other part is that they’re trying to take as much attrition out of play as possible. Betances and Banuelos may develop into Justin Verlander and Johan Santana – but they’re also just now getting to AAA. There is a lot that can happen between these next two years including major injury or just failure against higher levels of competition. By getting Pineda who is the same age as Betances but a full two seasons ahead of him, they are ensuring that if nothing else – they won’t have to count on both Betances and Banuelos developing.

    They give themselves some wiggle room which is important when you consider the abject failure of the organization to develop top of the rotation pitching talent since Andy.

  128. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Hey.

    Who needs Saturday Night Live ?

    We’ve got big Al.

    Sounds like some of the stuff from “Good morning Vietnam”.

    You missed your calling.

    :)

  129. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    Rich, relevant point. We really don’t know right now who among our young pitchers will ultimately be the pitchers left standing.

  130. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:12 am

    Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Chip

    My point, as I said, is that we don’t know if Pineda is the best one at this point; he could be the third best. So until they know that, unless they are overwhelmed, they need to keep their powder dry.
    ——————–

    You also don’t know if this is the peak of Betances’s value and if it’s going to be downhill from here on out. That is what makes trading prospects a tricky proposition. They could either be great or busts. You trade one too soon you might regret it (Mike Lowell) you hold onto one too long, you might regret that too (Fernando Martinez – Mets)

  131. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    mick, am I supposed to take seriously a question like have you ever been wrong about a prospect? Really? You call that discussion in earnest?

  132. blake March 13th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    MTU,

    You on the mend man? You need a shot of moonshine! :)

  133. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    blake March 13th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Chip,

    I understand that….but when Scout x tells something to Buster Olney we have no idea who he’s employees by or even if they are a scout at all.
    ————————————

    Well at that point it isn’t the scout’s fault – it’s Buster’s fault. He can’t tell us that he was talking to a scout from the Yankees about the Mets players – but he can tell us if he was talking to a scout vs. an executive.

  134. mick March 13th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    yf…why not?
    it would be interesting to know…

  135. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    “If that’s true then that is crazy when you think about it.”

    It’s almost certainly a matter of accounting, and what side of the ledger someone decides to put certain assets in.

    But one does have to wonder why Donald Trump, is he is indeed worth multiple 10-figures, why he chooses to involve himself in some cheesy network reality show?

    He is either a billionaire who’s need for celebrity at any cost is off-the-chart of anything ever seen before, or someone who REQUIRES his celebrity.

  136. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    “By getting Pineda who is the same age as Betances but a full two seasons ahead of him, they are ensuring that if nothing else – they won’t have to count on both Betances and Banuelos developing.”

    Young Michael Pineda is also still a risk though, as our fearless leader Cash keeps reminding us.

  137. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    yf (and Chip)

    Plus, if you look at stockpiling depth to provide flexibility, in general, we heard that with catchers, and right now, there is a risk that Martin, who is ok, nothing more, may end up blocking two of those prospects, while taking up valuable soft cap space.

    So depth is nice in theory, but it can impose unintended costs.

  138. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Blake-

    Feelin’ pretty good today. Just hope it continues.

    This crap really wants to hang on. Amazing.

    Most of last few days I felt like someone like GB hit me with a shovel.

    :)

  139. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    “Young Michael Pineda is also still a risk though, as our fearless leader Cash keeps reminding us.”

    A very significant risk, as all are young pitchers because they are more susceptible to injury until about 26.

  140. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    i think every trade and every prospect has to be looked at individually. i think people have read too much into the trade. yes, they want young pitching, but in the end, they decided that one guy was of more value to them than the guy they traded. and the next trade offer will be looked at the same way, is player a better for us in the long run than player b.

  141. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    “You also don’t know if this is the peak of Betances’s value and if it’s going to be downhill from here on out. That is what makes trading prospects a tricky proposition. They could either be great or busts. You trade one too soon you might regret it (Mike Lowell) you hold onto one too long, you might regret that too (Fernando Martinez – Mets)”

    Just as you don’t know, Chip, if this is the peak of Pineda’s value.

  142. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 13th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Some fun reading on a slow day.

    http://espn.go.com/espnw/comme.....12_espw_ob

    Have a good day y’all.

  143. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Ys Guy, I think you have to say potentially of more value though, because we won’t know if that is true for a while, as Cash himself has referred to the “risk,” the “I have a dream” angle, etc.

  144. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    I haven’t seen Dellin pitch a ton….but when he has issues the times I have seen him its been as simple as him opening up his front side and not getting it closed at release…
    ///

    These issues are part of what his size brings though, along with the angle he gets on the ball, the heaviness he gets. He’s got some checkpoints he can turn to, like keeping his head from tilting, elbow in, hip turned, and whatever else they’re doing with him. It might be somewhat robotic at times but the more it becomes part of his muscle memory the more natural it will be for him to stay closed and get all the way through his delivery.

    He does make adjustments and seems to have a good aptitude for self correction. Like I have said, I’ve seen him be a mechanical nightmare in the first inning and then something clicks and he just settles down and it’s a different pitcher.

    If I hadn’t seen him do this countless times, and if he didn’t flat out dominate once he gets himself together, I might not be so sky high on him, but this is what happens in most of his outings. The guy at his best is worth waiting for, I would say.

  145. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:21 am

    Chip-

    I agree with POV about Betances being a possible trade candidate.

    Only thing I disagree with is that it might just turn out to be Hughes instead.

    Possibly even someone we wouldn’t expect.

    If the Yankees turn out to have an excess of proven reserves with the 189 cap as a pretty hard target
    they wmight be included to use some of it to secure an OF/3B bat.

    For instance, if Gordon has another solid season.

    Young pitching is attractive to many teams.

    Especially if it is quality.

    ;)

  146. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    MTU, glad to hear you are feeling better. Have you been pumping the ginger and garlic (latter to keep away vampires ;) )

  147. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    “i think every trade and every prospect has to be looked at individually.”

    I agree with this, but hitting prospects are less risky as a group given the injury risk that pitchers face.

  148. Against All Odds March 13th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 11:14 am

    “If that’s true then that is crazy when you think about it.”

    It’s almost certainly a matter of accounting, and what side of the ledger someone decides to put certain assets in.

    But one does have to wonder why Donald Trump, is he is indeed worth multiple 10-figures, why he chooses to involve himself in some cheesy network reality show?

    He is either a billionaire who’s need for celebrity at any cost is off-the-chart of anything ever seen before, or someone who REQUIRES his celebrity.

    —————————————

    I’d go with the latter lol because it doesn’t make sense at all. You don’t see guys like Buffet and Gates with reality shows.

  149. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Hughes is probably more at risk than Betances to be traded with Hughes’ impending 2014 free agency.

  150. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:22 am
    “i think every trade and every prospect has to be looked at individually.”

    I agree with this, but hitting prospects are less risky as a group given the injury risk that pitchers face.
    ____
    No doubt.

  151. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:24 am

    Pruf, yep. That first inning is often the one he needs to get through. Not the best situation for a reliever I would say. ;)

  152. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 10:44 am
    betances’ delivery looked pretty smooth to me (not a scout) the times i’ve seen him. a little deliberate which seems to throw hitter’s timing off a bit, but definitely smooth.
    ///

    Yeah, and he is in position to field comebackers or to bounce off the mound and make a play. I think there is a deliberate, self conscious approach for him right now, but it’s to make it easier for him to stay intact and repeat and despite all the skepticism, it is working for him, for the most part.

  153. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    YF-

    Thanks. Been having Ginger tea quite a lot.

    And just today I went back to the breakfast of champions so I felt good about that.

    Now I need to nurse Mrs. MTU back to health.

    We’ve been taking our turns.

    Too bad I didn’t train the Mops properly. They could have taken care of the both of us.

    Instead they just like looking cute. The least they could done is fetched me a beer or somethin’.

    :)

  154. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Yes, blake Betances opens up, but he can usually correct it pretty quickly. In the one inning stints that have been televised, he really doesn’t get the chance to, and he is likely overthrowing because he knows he is only getting the one inning. Saturday’s outing, assuming he is still around will hopefully give him a chance to show what he showed when he pitched vs. the Astros yesterday.

  155. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    yankeefem, exactly. Putting two guys on in the eighth or ninth, even with his stuff, is probably not the best idea ;)

  156. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    “You also don’t know if this is the peak of Betances’s value and if it’s going to be downhill from here on out. That is what makes trading prospects a tricky proposition. They could either be great or busts. You trade one too soon you might regret it (Mike Lowell) you hold onto one too long, you might regret that too (Fernando Martinez – Mets)”

    Just as you don’t know, Chip, if this is the peak of Pineda’s value.
    ——————–

    That’s right – that’s what makes dealing with prospects and young players so tricky.

    Did the Yankees know when they traded Eric Milton that he was going to be injury plagued throughout his career? No. He very easily could have been a better pitcher than Andy – it was a gamble that they won.

    Did they know that Andy was going to be better than Sterling when they traded the latter in the Tino deal? No. They lucked out there too.

    Sometimes it backfires, sometimes you trade Mike Lowell because you think highly of Drew Henson.

    And if some team offers the Yankees a slugging OF or 3b for Dellin Betances they will have to gamble again.

  157. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    By the way – that’s the third time I’ve tried to post essentially that same response – the first two got demolished because I used Sterling’s last name….

  158. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    fortunately neither phil nor betances are going anywhere (at least until late july at the earliest), so alot more will be revealed to us between now and then.

    i dont want to get too crazy about it but i have very high hopes for yews this year. he’s in great shape, he’s got something to prove and he’s definitely flying under the radar at this point. i like that setup.

  159. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    YF-

    I agree. Hughes could be at risk too since he is becoming more and more expensive.

    These are interesting problems to have.

    Most teams would kill for them.

    How bout our neighbors to the North. Think they could use some extra pitching depth ?

    ;)

  160. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    MTU –

    I agree with that – it could well be that Hughes gets traded – but then it’s another gamble. As inconsistent as Hughes has been will Betances ever be as good as Hughes? Who knows.

    Anyone who says that they can tell you anything about player development with certainty is blowing smoke where the sun don’t shine.

  161. J. Alfred Prufrock March 13th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    I’m off, but another difference between Pineda and Betances is, I think, that Pineda’s got a lower center of gravity.

    Betances does have to combat balance issues, as he’s all limbs. I sometimes wonder if the “staying tall” stuff exacerbates this, but I’m no expert ;). I guess it’s a tradeoff, in the end. Probably has helped him that he’s become so physically solid over the last couple years, instead of the beanpole he used to be.

    Hope we get to see his next outing.

    Later

  162. stuckey March 13th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    I think Hughes still has upside that we haven’t seen develop yet (I’m bullish on him), but I also think he’s in a very questionable phase of his career in terms of his trade value.

    The lack of team control and his rising cost is a factor. Teams looking to acquire him (assuming he performs at a high level to intrigue them) has to factor in that not only will he be due significant raises AND is relatively close to free agency, but they also have to filter THAT reality through the fact lack of consistency and health has been a factor in his career.

    I just don’t anticipate any way Phil Hughes value to another team will be very high. Even if a team is convinced he’s turned a corner, he just won’t be under their control long enough to represent significant value.

    Unless the yankees trade him mid-season to a contender, which would be very unlike the yankees.

  163. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Chip-

    Yup. Tough questions to answer.

    Maybe they just keep both. Who knows ?

    ;)

  164. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    blake March 13th, 2012 at 11:09 am
    YF,

    Ill be reporting assuming I actually get time to go.
    ______
    blake, your going is a moral ought to the lohud community, for those of us stranded in NY metro with no 2012 RiverDog access. :)

  165. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Chip (that’s for the anatomy heads up, so reposting)

    “And if some team offers the Yankees a slugging OF or 3b for Dellin Betances they will have to gamble again.”

    I’d say the same thing about Pineda if it’s a slugging 3B or SS.

    “Did they know that Andy was going to be better than Sterling when they traded the latter in the Tino deal? No. They lucked out there too.”

    The consensus reports at the time were that Buck was the one who liked Pettitte much better than Sterling.

    But it’s really about self-scouting. They failed with Lilly. At this point it appears that they failed with choosing IPK over Hughes or Joba.

  166. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Rich -

    Think of Pineda vs. Betances as being akin to Austin Jackson vs. Curtis Granderson.

    Someday Austin Jackson might be as good as Curtis Granderson is now and has been over the course of his career – and if that happens two or three years down the line, some Yankee fans might look back and say “geeze – wish we still had Jackson” but a lot is going to have to go right for Jackson for that to happen.

    Someday Dellin Betances might be as good as Michael Pineda. Maybe last year was the best year Pineda will ever have in his career. But even so, a lot is going to have to break right for Betances for him to even have that level of success.

  167. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I too have high hopes for Hughes. I’d like both him and Betances to remain through this year at the very least. Again, pitching patience here would be a good thing. We shall see.

  168. blake March 13th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    JAP, YF,

    Yea im just writings what I see…..unfortunately they either won’t let him pitch long enough or the game isnt televised for me to see the corrections…..I should get to ser him a lot this year at AAA because those games are online.

    I suspect he’s a lot like Joba in that when he gets closed and gets throwing downhill then you see the ball start popping and the tilt on the pitches improves. Joba can be two totally different guys….when he’s closed and on top of the ball his stuff is good as anybody

  169. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    Chip, you can’t compare Pineda to Granderson who was an established eight year veteran when we got him. Pineda is still a work in progress.

  170. Ys Guy March 13th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    i really like ipk and didnt want him run out of town as most did, but i reserve judgement on him to this point. he’s done well and i believe he will always get the most out of what he’s got, that’s his makeup, but last year’s #’s are very skewed by his dominance over very weak nl west opponents. his #’s against the AL were very much in line wit his time in ny. i wish him well, but i dont think he could do anything like what he did last year in the jr. circuit.

  171. Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Chip

    What yf said. Not close.

  172. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Rich in NJ March 13th, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Chip (that’s for the anatomy heads up, so reposting)

    “And if some team offers the Yankees a slugging OF or 3b for Dellin Betances they will have to gamble again.”

    I’d say the same thing about Pineda if it’s a slugging 3B or SS.

    “Did they know that Andy was going to be better than Sterling when they traded the latter in the Tino deal? No. They lucked out there too.”

    The consensus reports at the time were that Buck was the one who liked Pettitte much better than Sterling.

    But it’s really about self-scouting. They failed with Lilly. At this point it appears that they failed with choosing IPK over Hughes or Joba.
    —————-

    Lilly wasn’t self scouting – Lilly was a George call much like Raul Mondesi was. Ted Lilly had a bad game against either the Mets or Red Sox and Steinbrenner ordered him traded. Cashman did the best he could getting Jeff Weaver in the three team deal.

    And I can’t fault the Yankees for picking Joba and Hughes over Kennedy. Pretty much the entire feeling around the league was the same – that Chamberlain and Hughes were the better two pitchers.

  173. Chip March 13th, 2012 at 11:42 am

    yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    Chip, you can’t compare Pineda to Granderson who was an established eight year veteran when we got him. Pineda is still a work in progress.
    —————–

    Sure I can – Pineda’s not as far along as Granderson, but then again Betances isn’t as far along as Austin Jackson was when he was traded.

  174. yankeefeminista March 13th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am
    YF-

    Thanks. Been having Ginger tea quite a lot.

    And just today I went back to the breakfast of champions so I felt good about that.

    Now I need to nurse Mrs. MTU back to health.

    We’ve been taking our turns.

    Too bad I didn’t train the Mops properly. They could have taken care of the both of us.

    Instead they just like looking cute. The least they could done is fetched me a beer or somethin’.
    ______
    I hope she feels better; I bet you are a good nurse. And I am sure that the mops being around even if they do nothing else but look cute is a comfort to both of you.

  175. Stoneburner March 13th, 2012 at 11:47 am

    BIG AL March 13th, 2012 at 10:44 am
    Around here, its like the news room tracking the Vietnam War;

    Today on LoHud, the NY Yankees blog, is day 65 of the discussion of the Montero for Pineda trade. Both sides are still entrenched in a back and forth debate as to which player will out perform the other, this season, and going forward. It has been reported by some that the HOF committee may be meeting soon to induct Montero before he plays a full season, and well before he retires from the game, he’s that good. Its been reported by some he is Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and Albert Pujols all in one. The M’s are said to be in the process of erecting a 25? bronze statue of Montero, as we go to press. Please stay tuned, more news to follow.

    **********

    I chuckled a little at this one. It is a good point – about how today – more than ever – people take on a hobby and talk about it – here prospect following – and they defend it like no other – to the point of canceling season tickets – declaring that any comparison to Carlos Lee is an “insult” – minnd you Carlos Lee has had a pretty productive career – waxing poetics about Frank Thomas as a DH – when mind you Thomas was a pretty decent athlete coming out of college (can you still believe the Texas Rangers took Donald Harris over him?? – remember following that draft pre-internet – in the days of Baseball Weekly and BA before it became BA fan boy club). Declaring that someone will be generational is the issue – and no room for debate – and the thing that bothers me the most is it is not so much anymore about the players’ skills BUT rather the fan boys’ time that was invested in following the prospect that they appear to be raging about – go back and look at the comments – it is about waxing poetics about trips to Charleston when Montero is 19 and watching him play, etc. It is with this reaction – that you can see how by their words and actions – they do act like amateur scouts – but with a fan boy enthusiasm – gushing about – here comes J.R. Murphy playing 3b – DEALIN Dellin is in (they come up with nicknames too). It is fine to be a fan – but it is another thing to think you belong some secret club with a handshake and make proclamations with such certainity about future success – you are going to catch it from other fans for such behavior. All that was requested was that “Montero might be generational” – instead of “Montero will be generational – I am selling tickets – and I am taking my toys home and not playing with the other kids.”

  176. GreenBeret7 March 13th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    There’s as good of a chance that you’ll be playing center field for the Yankees as there is for Jackson being as good as Granderson. Jackson will be fortunate to get above 15 homers in his best season. Teams don’t keep 160-170 strikeout, singles hitters very long regardless of their defensive ability.

  177. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    YF-

    Thanks. Yeah. You bet. They are adorable. Mrs. MTU calls them furry Angels.

    We love ‘em to death.

    Dogs are so much better than people. Except for “Killer” he’s a lost cause.

    :)

  178. MTU March 13th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    New thread —–>

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    JAP,

    You get my kudos for your undying Betances support. So far, so good.

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