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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Ibanez adjusting mechanics, searching for timing

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 14, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Based on my chat this afternoon, apparently Raul Ibanez’s 2-for-24 start to spring training is exactly what everyone was worried about when the Yankees signed the veteran to a big league deal late last month. Ibanez has struck out five times, hasn’t walked yet, and he’s hitting .083.

“I think a lot of it has to do with feeling comfortable and finding your timing,” Ibanez said. “I’ve kind of been in between timing mechanisms right now. I’m trying to eliminate some of the extra movement and getting acclimated to that. I’m moving less, so it’s almost like you’re going backwards at first. Hopefully I’ll catch on and figure it out.”

We’ve seen this plenty of times in the past when hitting coach Kevin Long has worked with a hitter to develop quieter mechanics. In the case of Curtis Granderson, the impact was overwhelmingly positive. In the case of Derek Jeter, the changes were scrapped after a few months of ineffectiveness.

As for Ibanez? Time will tell, and right now there hasn’t been a lot of time.

“To me it looks like a little bit of a timing issue,” Joe Girardi said. “He’s a little bit late, and that’s something that’s very correctable. You hope when they start playing two and three days in a row, you kind of get that timing better. Some guys take a while to get going in spring training. Right now, at times, I think he’s just a little late.”

Ibanez didn’t have very good overall numbers last season, and he’s already 39 years old, so the concern about his production is easy to understand. But he’s also a veteran who’s been in this situation before.

“You definitely have to wait and trust it’s going to be there,” he said. “It will come. It’s happened to me before, so it will come.”

Associated Press photo

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567 Responses to “Ibanez adjusting mechanics, searching for timing”

  1. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    “To me it looks like a little bit of a timing issue,” Joe Girardi said. “He’s a little bit late, and that’s something that’s very correctable.

    He is late because his batspeed is slow.

  2. blake March 14th, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    ‘He is late because his batspeed is slow.”

    Yea…..sucks getting old

  3. luis March 14th, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    Slow and long

  4. LGY March 14th, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Melo playing the exact way D’antoni has been dying for him to play for 1.5 seasons the day he’s fired.

    Hilarious.

  5. Yankee Trader March 14th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Blake-
    Is John Henson going to play Friday?

    It’s too bad Russell Branyon isn’t available to at least compete for the lefty DH role.

    Didn’t see the game today, but it looks like Banuelos gave up the 3 run homer after he got two outs.

    I think I know the answer-Doesn’t Justin Maxwell have to pass thru waivers if sent back to AAA?
    Any impression of Cole Garner?

  6. luis March 14th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    Trader,

    Maxwell would have to clear waivers. Yes, he did allowed the homer after two outs ( after walking Lind ), but he had no command today.

  7. Tar March 14th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    ‘He is late because his batspeed is slow.”
    Yea…..sucks getting old.”

    Did he ever have a quick bat? Getting old also sucks for memory issues. I can’t ever remember being overly impressed with Ibanez.

    Last year when just about everybody was getting on Jones I was definitely in his corner. I saw some good things from him. I think people over-reacted to his early results.

    I can’t say that with ibanez. But I’m not sure what the solution is either.

  8. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Did he ever have a quick bat? Getting old also sucks for memory issues. I can’t ever remember being overly impressed with Ibanez.

    Of course, one does not play for as long as Ibanez has without having had a quick bat in his career. But he is 40 now. He can offset it by using his veteran prowess to hunt for fastballs or look for offspeed stuff in certain counts

  9. Bronx Jeers March 14th, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    “Ibanez didn’t have very good overall numbers last season, and he’s already 39 years old, so the concern about his production is easy to understand. ”

    ————

    Not according to Feinsand or whoever “Blogging Bombers” is.

    According to him Ibanez and Cano’s Spring hitting woes should be viewed equally.

  10. blake March 14th, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    Tar,
    they have said they won’t know until tomorrow I don’t think….hopefully they’ll have him by the 2nd round at least

  11. MG March 14th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

    LGY March 14th, 2012 at 9:37 pm
    Melo playing the exact way D’antoni has been dying for him to play for 1.5 seasons the day he’s fired.

    Hilarious.
    —————–
    this is why D’Antoni needed to go, he had lost the team-for whatever reason they were playing tight for the past 3 weeks. He wasn’t coming back next year, there was no reason for him to coach the rest of the season given the results so far.

    They aren’t going to hit all these 3′s every game but 30+ assists, even against a team playing poorly, is pretty impressive. They will need to play differently when the 3′s are all going in but maybe this will be a turnaround for them the rest of the way.

  12. blake March 14th, 2012 at 10:03 pm

    I was going to watch the Mariners game but Montero isn’t playing so blah

  13. Tar March 14th, 2012 at 10:04 pm

    Blake

    It was YT who asked, but yeah I agree. I know you don’t want to take anyone to lightly, but there is no reason they should need or rush Henson for the first round.

  14. MTU March 14th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    Does the Garcia injury change the equation in any way ?

  15. blake March 14th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource

    A lot of scouts are expecting big things from Hughes this year. I haven’t jumped on that wagon yet but he does look better out there.
    5:32 PM – 14 Mar 12 via web · Details

  16. blake March 14th, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    Tar,

    nah….they need him 100%.

    MTU,

    I don’t think the competition was real anyway as long as Hughes is healthy and pitching well…

  17. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    I know the Knicks are probably giddy about finally getting a win, but you don’t embarass the competition in the last few minutes by getting ferocious slam-dunks when you’re up by 40. That shows no class.

    *********

    I know it is probably outrageous to suggest there could be any of the “Yankee intimidation” factor involved in Ibanez’s difficulties – so I won’t…

  18. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    I don’t know that Kuroda has yet been annointed anything and if Freddy is more consistent than Kuroda, I would expect Kuroda to be the long man.

    Common sense.

  19. blake March 14th, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    “I don’t know that Kuroda has yet been annointed anything and if Freddy is more consistent than Kuroda, I would expect Kuroda to be the long man.”

    Girardi has said that the only two spots that are given and Sabathia and Kuroda…..they gave Kuroda 10 million dollars for a year….he’s going to be in the rotation unless he gets hurt.

  20. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    I don’t know that Kuroda has yet been annointed anything and if Freddy is more consistent than Kuroda, I would expect Kuroda to be the long man.

    Common sense.

    Nah. Kuroda has been very very good the past 3 years and is making twice as much as Garcia, not to mention being Coveted by Cashman for the past 2 offseasons. Kuroda’s spot is guaranteed. They wouldn’t make Kuroda lose face by tossing him as the long man over spring training. He is doing the CC Sabathia routine.

  21. luis March 14th, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    MTU March 14th, 2012 at 10:06 pm

    Does the Garcia injury change the equation in any way ?

    =======================

    Hi MTU, I hope Mrs MTU and yourself are feeling better.

    IMO, if Garcia is not able to be the long man they’ll have to take one of Phelps, Warren or Mitchell to fill that role….Not good because i think at least Phelps and Mitchell might be able to be good SP in the Big Leagues….So pitching in mop up innings and very irregularly won’t help their cause.
    Hopefully that won’t be the case

  22. MTU March 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    blake-

    Gotta believe the injury helps Hughes all the more.

    No idea how long it’s gonna take for Garcia’s hand to heal.

  23. blake March 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    off to bed….maybe we see Pineda vs Harper tomorrow….game is on MLB network at 1:00….between March Madness of course.

  24. Bronx Jeers March 14th, 2012 at 10:12 pm

    Kuroda has been anointed a long time ago by the apostle Girardi.

    Good reason to as well from what I hear.

  25. Tar March 14th, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    Blake

    Didn’t it seem like Marshall was kind of lost without him. He didn’t know if he should drive, dish or ???. All this talk about the Knicks don’t they know March Madness has started! :D

  26. blake March 14th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Tar,

    yea….he’s a big part of their club on both ends of the floor….they need him if they want a chance at the title.

    MTU,

    yup…but I think Hughes was going to get a spot either way unless he was just awful and he’s been pretty good so far.

    to be for real now….I’m tuckered.

  27. MTU March 14th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Luis-

    Yes we are both improving. Thank you for asking.

    Guess we have to see how long it takes for Freddy’s injury to heal before we know what other moves might need to be made.

  28. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    “Kuroda has been anointed a long time ago by the apostle Girardi.

    Good reason to as well from what I hear”

    Sorry, Jeers, I reside in the show me state. If “from what I hear” floats you’re boat, enjoy the ride!

    :)

  29. MG March 14th, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    even if Garcia’s injury only takes a week to heal he’ll miss a couple of turns and will make it tough for him to start the year in the rotation.

    It’s an easy out for the Yankees, they give him a couple of rehab starts at AAA or extended spring training and see how the rest of the rotation does the first 20 games or so.

  30. MG March 14th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    the Yankees didn’t pay Kuroda $10M for one year to have him pitch out of the bullpen, he’s in the rotation, period.

  31. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    If Kuroda doesn’t get it under control and Garcia is very good, the Yankees would be deaf, dumb, and blind to give Kuroda a rotation spot. And any poster here that would think it should happen just because of the money is equally deaf, dumb, and blind.

  32. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    “the Yankees didn’t pay Kuroda $10M for one year to have him pitch out of the bullpen, he’s in the rotation, period.”

    :lol:

    Because you said so.

  33. luis March 14th, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    MG March 14th, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    even if Garcia’s injury only takes a week to heal he’ll miss a couple of turns and will make it tough for him to start the year in the rotation.

    It’s an easy out for the Yankees, they give him a couple of rehab starts at AAA or extended spring training and see how the rest of the rotation does the first 20 games or so.

    =============================

    To be honest, i think the so called competition between Garcia and Hughes is rigged…Hughes had to basically implode for Garcia to take the spot…The injury’s impact would be on the long man role IMO.

  34. Tar March 14th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    Cal getting spanked in the first half. For Pat M and Nick I hope they have a comeback in them.

    Good night Yankee fans.

    ( Thats for E )

  35. luis March 14th, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    Trisha,

    Just like with AJ….He was going to pitch regardless, because of the contract…. Besides Kuroda will do fine, i hope

  36. MG March 14th, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:21 pm
    “the Yankees didn’t pay Kuroda $10M for one year to have him pitch out of the bullpen, he’s in the rotation, period.”

    Because you said so.
    ————————————-
    It’s not only obvious, but the manager said so as well:
    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/20.....ting-five/

    He does makes those decisions, right?

  37. luis March 14th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    Good night Tar

  38. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    luis – the way it should be is the best 5 are your starting rotation, odd man out is the long man.

    We all know how the “rigged” competition turned out the last time Hughes was slotted in.

    Girardi already said that the long man will definitely end up in the rotation at some point in the season (if when history repeats itself) so everyone will get a shot at starting.

    I truly don’t know who the final starting 5 will be. Neither does anyone else here. Period.

    :D

  39. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    The manager also said Freddy was brought back to be in the rotation.

    So we’ll see.

  40. MTU March 14th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    I didn’t hear much about it.

    How serious was Swisher’s injury ?

  41. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Kuroda is the #2.
    ST is not an audition for Kuroda.

  42. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    one of the news shows said dantoni mentioned trading melo to nj, so they showed him the door…

  43. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    If Kuroda had a horrible ST and all the others were spot on and he was thrown into the rotation, Girardi would be roundly criticized, and he would deserve it.

    I am premising my comments on the hypothesis that Kuroda is terrible and everyone else is very good. Obviously it’s just that at this point – a hypothesis.

    If it were to happen, I could see Girardi backtracking and saying that the expectations were that Kuroda was in the rotation but that Kuroda agreed after a shaky ST that it would benefit both him and the team more if he started out as the long man. And then Girardi would reiterate his position that all of the starters would see rotation starts at some point because of predictable downtime at some point of the starting rotation.

    It would not be the first time someone would have backtracked on a decision previously etched in stone.

  44. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    “Kuroda is the #2.
    ST is not an audition for Kuroda.”

    We’ll see.

  45. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    ST is not an audition for Kuroda.

  46. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:35 pm

    “one of the news shows said dantoni mentioned trading melo to nj, so they showed him the door…”

    :roll:

    I just love the media.

  47. luis March 14th, 2012 at 10:35 pm

    Apparently not very serious, just a tight groin muscle according to RAB

  48. MG March 14th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    So, basically, we have bloggers rooting against both Pineda and Kuroda because they have other players (Montero and Garcia) they wanted to see on the team.

    Kuroda isn’t having a horrible spring, didn’t he pitch 3 shutout innings the other day IN SPITE of him not having his good stuff.

    And wasn’t he unhappy with the way he was throwing?

    I’ll take that from one of my starters every day, that just means he has very high standards and won’t be happy until he satisfies those.

  49. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    woodson will hold these guys to the fire….he’s not their uncle he’s their daddy.

  50. MTU March 14th, 2012 at 10:37 pm

    Thanks again Luis.

    Good to hear.

    Catch you Manana.

    :)

  51. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    So, basically, we have bloggers rooting against both Pineda and Kuroda because they have other players (Montero and Garcia) they wanted to see on the team.
    ===============================
    I will root against Montero esp when he plays the Yanks.

  52. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    mick – you already said that.

    If it makes you feel good, say it again.

    I’ll repeat – we’ll see. I don’t need to say it a third time.

    ****************

    “Trisha,

    Just like with AJ….He was going to pitch regardless, because of the contract…. Besides Kuroda will do fine, i hope”

    luis, AJ had been with the team a long time. Totally different situation.

    It may well be that Kuroda will do fine.

    But if he really sucks in ST, I don’t believe he’ll be in the rotation. Last time I looked I had the right to an opinion here!

    :)

  53. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    Woodson: “You can be damn sure I will hold them accountable.”

  54. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    Kuroda has been an excellent veteran pitcher in the MLB, he isn’t competing for a spot. Just like AJ burnett wasn’t competing for a spot in 2009. If Kuroda has a bad spring training chalk it up to working out the kinks, because he has earned the right to do poorly in spring and not have to worry about his role. Just like Cano can hit .187 and not be worried.

  55. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    MG – it might pay for you to read posts before you pound out a response.

    Childish of you to say that “bloggers” are rooting against Kuroda because they have other players they want to see on the team. Rooting against Kuroda?

    Yeah, okay.

  56. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:40 pm

    mick – you already said that.

    If it makes you feel good, say it again.

    I’ll repeat – we’ll see. I don’t need to say it a third time.
    ==================================
    well Excuuuuuuuuse me!

  57. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Besides his contract, which makes him a lock for the rotation, he has simply been very good and the yankees have been after him quite publicly. People ‘win jobs’ in spring training when they are rookies and have an amazing spring, or guys trying to fight their way back onto the roster, or last spot type of guys.

    Veterans don’t lose a spot in spring training because of a poor showing.

  58. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    And the manager himself said they have 4 pitchers for 3 spots. Nova, Hughes, Garcia, and Pineda are competing for 3 spots and realistically only 2 of them are competing for 1 spot.

  59. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Kuroda hasn’t earned anything in the AL. He’s yet to earn something in the AL.

  60. luis March 14th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    MTU,

    My pleasure, have a good night

    Trisha,

    Of course you have every right to have your opinion!! ;)

  61. MG March 14th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    In 1990 Bob Welch has a spring training ERA north of 20. He was downright awful all spring.

    Come the regular season he won 27 games and the Cy Young.

    Spring training means nothing for veteran pitchers, they get their work in and get ready for the season, period.

  62. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    The manager and Cashman both said Freddy was going to be in the rotation.

    Night now.

  63. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    trish you can’t be serious

  64. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    Was Bob Welch 37 years old, coming to the toughest team in the AL after having spent his entire career in the NL? If so, then MAYBE history repeats itself. Otherwise, I don’t play cookie cutter results.

  65. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    The manager and Cashman both said Freddy was going to be in the rotation.

    Before or after they signed Kuroda? And the only one that kind of statement spells bad news for is Hughes or Nova.

  66. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    kuroda has to win a spot…ludicrous.

  67. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    “He is late because his batspeed is slow.”

    “Yea…..sucks getting old”

    They need to stop pretending otherwise.

  68. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:45 pm

    “And the manager himself said they have 4 pitchers for 3 spots. Nova, Hughes, Garcia, and Pineda are competing for 3 spots and realistically only 2 of them are competing for 1 spot.”

    The manager also said that 5 players were competing for a spot in the rotation when Hughes was handed the spot. Throughout that ST, everyone on this forum assured me that it was a rigged “competition”. Hughes had worked out with Eiland the entire winter.

    So whatever the manager says in this regard I have to take with a grain of salt.

  69. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    So whatever the manager says in this regard I have to take with a grain of salt.

    Ok but the things they ‘lied’ about were competitions. Not guaranteed spots. CC and Kuroda have guaranteed spots. If you think the competition for the last 3 spots is a lie, sure, but Kuroda isnt going to be in the bullpen no matter how hard you distrust him.

  70. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    “kuroda has to win a spot…ludicrous.”

    I love it when you get your panties in a twist. You haven’t done it in a long time. What I suggest is a continuation of indignation posts about Kuroda and his place in the rotation!

    :D

  71. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    The manager and Cashman both said Freddy was going to be in the rotation.
    ===================
    didn’t he say only cc and kuroda had a spot?
    and the other 3 , hughes ,nova and pineda are locks….girardi just has to decide their order in the rotation

  72. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    “no matter how hard you distrust him.”

    I distrust him only as much as he shows he showed be distrusted. And that certainly wouldn”t be discerned until the end of ST. If he has a good ST, so be it.

  73. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Only a fool would let Garcia block Nova or Hughes.

  74. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    “That was vintage Freddy,” manager Joe Girardi said. “Change speeds, change location, use his split. There are stages in your career. Proving you can play. Then just getting ready to play. And then proving you can still play. Freddy’s in a competition, but I believe he can still pitch. The best thing for me would be to have to make a tough decision.”

  75. MG March 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    trisha, enjoy your fantasy, it is so far off base it borders on the ridiculous.

    You will be the first person reading negatives into anything Kuroda does from this point forward in the hope that you will be proved right about Garcia being in the rotation.

    I like Hughes a great deal and would like to see him in the rotation (and think there is a good chance he will as he’s throwing the ball really well) but if Freddie wins the #5 spot I will root for him as hard as any of the others.

  76. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    Freddy is the one in a competition. Kuroda is not.

  77. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    I love it when you get your panties in a twist.
    =============================
    shows something about you that you love it.
    only you can show indignation?

  78. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    “And the only one that kind of statement spells bad news for is Hughes or Nova.”

    But it seems that posters believe that the spot belongs to Hughes no matter what they said.

    That’s why I believe in waiting until things shake out. Too many things are said before they should be said maybe.

  79. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    girardi was tweaking hughes with garcia anyway…

  80. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    But it seems that posters believe that the spot belongs to Hughes no matter what they said.

    That’s why I believe in waiting until things shake out. Too many things are said before they should be said maybe.

    Well the newspapers say its rigged in Hughes favor, and they said the same thing when Hughes won a rigged contest last time. But that doesn’t matter, what is being argued is that you said Kuroda is in danger of losing his spot based on a spring training performance. Which is untrue.

  81. luis March 14th, 2012 at 10:51 pm

    MG,

    I’m sure that whatever rotation comes out from ST, she will root for it no matter what.

  82. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    “You will be the first person reading negatives into anything Kuroda does from this point forward in the hope that you will be proved right about Garcia being in the rotation. ”

    MG, I haven’t had to resort to this in a long time, but you can kiss my ass.

    I’m not a crybaby and I don’t lobby for my favorite player the way you probably do and so many others do. I want the best 5 in the rotation. PERIOD. Whoever they end up being, they end up being, PERIOD.

  83. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:52 pm

    girardi is just managing…it’s not the boy scouts…he says what he has to and players can construe it anyway they want….it’s not lying and it’s not meant to keep the fans informed.

  84. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    “MG,

    I’m sure that whatever rotation comes out from ST, she will root for it no matter what.”

    Thank you luis. Every lucid person on this forum knows that cold.

  85. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    “girardi is just managing…”

    :eek:

  86. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    the best 5 is not determined in ST. it’s not a tryout.

  87. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:54 pm

    “girardi is just managing…”
    ================
    ok he’s just playing with Phil’s head

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock March 14th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 10:48 pm
    Only a fool would let Garcia block Nova or Hughes.
    ///

    Well…?…….

  89. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    they know what freddy can do
    phil, they aren’t so sure about.

  90. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    jerkface – I don’t buy it until it happens.

    So it’s pointless to discuss if further, right? If it happens, it happens. I don’t believe that a terrible ST would guarantee it happening, but we likely won’t witness that so it’s pointless to go on about it.

    I believe what I believe. If Kuroda had a terrible ST, that would be the test.

  91. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    mick – I want the best rotation the Yankee can put together. That’s certainly reasonable.

  92. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    Look, if you rank the starters as: CC, Kuroda, Nova, Pineda, Hughes, then if one of the three younger pitchers falters, Garcia is flexible enough to amp up to start, if he begins the season in the pen. You can’t say that about Nova, Pineda, or Hughes if they start off in the pend.

  93. mick March 14th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    no matter what he does, kuroda is the #2

  94. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    Falling back on the Randy special? Even if you lose you win, nice.

  95. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    Kuroda is indeed the #2, not that matters right now, but he is.

  96. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    “Even if you lose you win, nice.”

    What in hell does that even mean? Because I’m not drinking your kool aid I win even if I lose?

  97. mick March 14th, 2012 at 11:00 pm

    imagine joe telling the translator, “Look we are so sorry, please tell Hiroki because he let up so many runs in ST he is being demoted to the pen.”

  98. mick March 14th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    “He can keep the 10 mill we gave him.”

  99. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    “Look, if you rank the starters as: CC, Kuroda, Nova, Pineda, Hughes, then if one of the three younger pitchers falters, Garcia is flexible enough to amp up to start, if he begins the season in the pen. You can’t say that about Nova, Pineda, or Hughes if they start off in the pend.”

    Rich I think Nova could certainly amp up.

    And as Girardi has already said, undoubtedly every one of the six will be in the starting rotation at some point.

    You want your best out there. At least I do. Now that is bloody common sense!

  100. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    “I want the best 5 in the rotation. PERIOD. Whoever they end up being, they end up being, PERIOD.”

    If CC Sabathia has the worst spring of the six, should he be the long man?

  101. mick March 14th, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    Imagine telling Nova , after 16 wins, that he is going to the pen.

  102. mick March 14th, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    You could never manage my Little League team.

  103. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    mick, if Kuroda fell apart I absolutely and unequivocally don’t believe he would be slotted in the rotation, I don’t care what he’s being paid. Do you want to win games or do you want to say that because you spent so much on a player, he just had to be a starter?

    If you’re going strictly on what Girardi has said, that’s one thing – even though I do believe rules can quickly change based on circumstances. But if you’re going on what he’s being paid, I think that’s whack.

  104. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    Raul Ibanez should seek out Derek Jeter for counsel.

    Jeter has experience being done due to lack of bat speed.

  105. mick March 14th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    These guys are down there tinkering with their stuff, trying things out, experimenting.
    It is not a tryout.

  106. mick March 14th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    If Kuroda fell apart?
    You must mean during the season, right?

  107. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    stuckey – very good point. Okay let me modify that. Because CC is a tried and true known commodity and has proved himself as a Yankee pitcher, I would want him in the rotation.

  108. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    Its not about what you want, its about what the Yankees will do. In an ideal world I guess you’d want everyone competing for their spot, but in the real world contract, veteran status, ability to be optioned, past performance all have bearing on who has a spot locked up in spring and who doesn’t.

  109. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    trisha

    You really want a young pitcher with upside, who had a forearm strain at the end of last season, to have irregular work? Not me.

  110. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    jerkface – I hear what you’re saying.

    rich, all I was saying is that I think that of the pitchers you mentioned, Nova would be able to step up and get it done. That’s all.

  111. Bronx Jeers March 14th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    Sorry, Jeers, I reside in the show me state. If “from what I hear” floats you’re boat, enjoy the ride!

    —————–

    You’re a Missourian? I thought you were an ocean child.

    5 Ritter bars says he gets a start in the first 5 games.

  112. MG March 14th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    I’ll repeat the obvious: spring training means nothing for a veteran pitcher and Kuroda will get every chance to show he deserves a season-long spot in the rotation.

    If he makes 7-8 starts and stinks it up then maybe a change is considered but considering the Yankees gave AJ almost 2 full seasons to stink it up they will give Kuroda significant rope.

    At the same time, I don’t see how Kuroda will stink it up-he has excellent control, knows how to get a strikeout, and obviously has a good work ethic. That doesn’t translate into a guy who can’t pitch in a tougher division at all.

  113. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 11:11 pm

    Sure, trisha, but at what cost? The risk is too high.

  114. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    “You’re a Missourian? I thought you were an ocean child.

    5 Ritter bars says he gets a start in the first 5 games.”

    :)

    It’s just a manner of speaking.

    And you don’t want to do that Jeers. What if he fractures his arm during a game in ST?

  115. mick March 14th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    now ibanez is another story…no need for another randy winn but even he will go north.

  116. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Trisha,

    I think its clear this boils down more to your feelings on Kuroda and your view of his resume, as opposed to a larger more objective point about the best 6 in March.

    You have every right to feel however you like about Kuroda, but like the others here, I think you’re misreading the writing on the wall.

    Barring some unprecedented implosion or health issues, Kuroda has a spot in the rotation.

  117. BoJo March 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Nice to see you are all well and enjoying ST.

    For some reason, I am having great trouble getting excited about this year. I have been looking forward to a rotation of Joba, Hughes, Nova, and other prospects along with the rise of Montero. I was excited about the prospects of the farm hands bringing youth, excitement, and hunger to an old team.

    Instead, we got more Kuroda, Garcia, Ibanez, Chavez, and push aside Montero, Joba, and some of the kids. It’s rather boring to be honest.

    I haven’t even been interested enough to make any predictions or point out players that I think will have big years. I can’t even get excited about any of the players in ST…

    Hope no one else is having these problems…

  118. J. Alfred Prufrock March 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    I don’t care what he’s being paid. Do you want to win games or do you want to say that because you spent so much on a player, he just had to be a starter?
    ////

    Except that, because the Yankees spent so much on Alex Rodriguez, he just has to be the DH. Check that – they just have the have the DH available for him, because they spent so much money on him. Can’t have him just taking days off – not when he’s making all that money up to his age 41.

  119. J. Alfred Prufrock March 14th, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    *have TO have

  120. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    I could understand if Kuroda were a bargain basement signing on a minor league invite or a cheap MLB deal, but he is a player they have coveted for a while, did a lot of leg work to get him, and gave him a nice hefty 1 year deal because thats what it took to get him to consider coming east.

    The Yankees do not have the reservations you do about Kuroda coming to the AL, and respect his service both in the MLB and NPB enough to have granted him a rotation spot without a competition.

    And of course Freddy won the 5th starter spot last spring with a 4.91 ERA, AJ and CC had ERA’s above 5 in 2010 and Vazquez was outpitched by Sergio Mitre but Serge wasn’t given a spot. There just isn’t much evidence for the Yankees paying a guy 10 million only to turn him over to the pen over spring.

  121. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    “For some reason, I am having great trouble getting excited about this year.”

    To some extent, me too, but I know the reason.

  122. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    rich, I’m not lobbying for it. See I think CC and Nova have earned spots in the rotation because they’ve been good pitchers for the Yanks. Hughes inconsistency certainly would bear watching and I don’t the Yankees would make a mistake with him again. Now I’M NOT SAYING HUGHES ISN’T GOING TO PITCH WELL IN ST! But I think the Yanks are watching him closely, as it should be. They aren’t going to be burned three times.

    Let me remind you that I’ve been nonstop Hughes supporter from jump street and have continued to say that I thought he would come around and get his good stuff going again. Having said that, if for some reason he did not, I wouldn’t want him to sniff the rotation.

    I don’t have a dog in the hunt. I’m for the top five dogs.

    But as jerkface said, because I’m for the top five dogs doesn’t mean the Yankees are going to do things that way.

    And as luis aptly pointed out, whatever rotation breaks ST, I will root my brains out for those guys.

  123. luis March 14th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    BoJo March 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    Nice to see you are all well and enjoying ST.

    For some reason, I am having great trouble getting excited about this year. I have been looking forward to a rotation of Joba, Hughes, Nova, and other prospects along with the rise of Montero. I was excited about the prospects of the farm hands bringing youth, excitement, and hunger to an old team.

    Instead, we got more Kuroda, Garcia, Ibanez, Chavez, and push aside Montero, Joba, and some of the kids. It’s rather boring to be honest.

    I haven’t even been interested enough to make any predictions or point out players that I think will have big years. I can’t even get excited about any of the players in ST…

    Hope no one else is having these problems…

    ======================================

    Bojo!!!,

    So good to see you around!….Welcome to the club, there a bunch of guys feeling just like you do. :(

  124. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 11:22 pm

    Where we disagree, trisha, is that ST matters for determining who the “top dogs” are. It doesn’t. It’s only important for marginal players, and the top five starters (which doesn’t include Garcia) aren’t that. They can reassess in about mid-May if there is a problem.

  125. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    “I have been looking forward to a rotation of Joba, Hughes, Nova, and other prospects along with the rise of Montero. I was excited about the prospects of the farm hands bringing youth, excitement, and hunger to an old team.

    Instead, we got more Kuroda, Garcia, Ibanez, Chavez, and push aside Montero, Joba, and some of the kids. It’s rather boring to be honest. ”

    Dr. Andrews pushed Joba aside, not the Yankees. The spot you wanted him to have in the rotation will be manned by a starting pitcher younger than he is.

    Nova and Hughes will very likely be in the rotation as you prefer.

    What other players besides Montero (who was swapped for a 23 year old) and the TJ surgery recovering Chamberlain were you looking forward to that Kuroda, Garcia, and Chavez has pushed out?

  126. BoJo March 14th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    Luis–

    Thanks…

    I’m worried that no one seems to care about the increasing apathy.

  127. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:23 pm

    “I think its clear this boils down more to your feelings on Kuroda and your view of his resume, as opposed to a larger more objective point about the best 6 in March. ”

    stuckey, to some extent you are correct. It probably boils down to my feelings not on Kuroda since I’ve fought to have him on my fantasy teams every year, but on my feelings of taking ANY 37-year old career NL player and thinking he’s going to be the bomb in the AL.

    Ask John Smoltz how well that worked out for him when he went to beantown.

    That’s why I said I’m from the show me state. I need to see it before I buy into it.

  128. luis March 14th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 14th, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    If only…….

  129. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Hi bojy!

    I’m finding ST boring but that’s only because I think the Yankees are going to field the best team in the majors and so am waiting for the regular season.

  130. BoJo March 14th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    Back later…

  131. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    Smoltz pitching 28 innings in the season before he went to Boston, coming off of an injury. Kuroda pitched 202 last season and was healthy.

  132. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    Healthy and really good.

  133. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    bojy – and I still want Joba as a starter. But I can’t let that get in the way of my excitement about getting Pineda. I think he is going to be a beast among beasts.

    And since my penchant in the game is pitching and not offense, I’m pysched as hell about the field of starters.

    I still dream that a day will come when Joba works his way back into the rotation. Whether or not that ever happens I can’t say. But I don’t let wet blankets get in my way of enjoying the game the way I want to enjoy the game and having hope that certain things could happen. It’s the uncertainty of the game that makes it so damned exciting!

  134. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    Trisha,

    Whether Kuroda is going to be a success in the AL for the Yankees and whether he’ll be a member of the starting rotation the first week in April are 2 different matters.

    The former is debatable, though I don’t share you view the gulf between the AL and NL is as vast as you apparently do.

    The latter isn’t debatable. It’s a virtual lock, which is all anyone is saying.

  135. luis March 14th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    Stuckey,

    i understand that you fly to high for some of us…..I think this is the first time that Bojo has joined the board in quite a while, so let him speak his peace and don’t psychoanalyze everything he says, please.

  136. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:30 pm

    I’l try this one more time. I don’t give a rat’s patootie who it is. I am skeptical about the NL to AL transition for pitchers. Add upper age to it, I am ever more skeptical.

    I guess you were blown away by Randy Johnson too!

    Whatever.

  137. Rich in NJ March 14th, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Randy Johnson had knee and back problems at 41; his velo was down; his slider lacked tilt; and he still put up a 112 ERA+ in his first season in NY.

  138. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    “Healthy and really good.”

    He had some inconsistency last year, and also a losing record.

    As I said, I’ve had him on my fantasy teams so I know all about him.

  139. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    Luis,

    I don’t believe I analyzed a thing about Bojo. I think he posted something in a discussion forum and I tried to engage him in a discussion, which is believe is the point.

    He says he was looking forward to younger players, I asked him what younger players he was looking forward to?

    I was continuing the discussion he wanted to have and asking him to elaborate on the point he wanted to make.

    I have no idea what you mean to say…

  140. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:36 pm

    “I am skeptical about the NL to AL transition for pitchers.”

    Fair enough.

    Any source for your skepticism.

    Has it been reasonably proven NL to AL transition is a real issue?

  141. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:37 pm

    AGAIN- I am all about pitching and defense. I want the best the Yankees have to offer.

    That’s not asking a lot from a fan’s POV.

  142. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    “Has it been reasonably proven NL to AL transition is a real issue?”

    I think it’s been reasonably proven that it is more of an issue than AL going to NL mainly because of the transition to pitching to a DH and not having a weak #9 to whom to pitch. I don’t remember exactly the ERA differential that is commonly accepted between the leagues. Maybe someone here who is good with stats can spout it off the top of his head. But there is one.

  143. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    And stuckey, we’re talking about a 37-year-old pitcher on top of it. I don’t think I’d be thrilled about taking on any 37-year-old, but add a total NL career, it does give me pause.

    Only time will tell whether my trepidation was justified.

  144. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 14th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    Okay I give. Kuroda is a lock for the starting rotation because the Yankees have said he is. And I agree that when they pay someone 10 mil they don’t want to have to look stupid by putting the person in the pen.

  145. J. Alfred Prufrock March 14th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    Randy Johnson spent at least as much time in the AL as the NL over his career. His success as a pitcher in his career was not a condition of being an “NL pitcher.” That is far, far afield.

    He was somewhat washed up when we got him, but not because he got softened up by pitching in Arizona. Yet, he was critical in helping us win the division, and in winning his starts against Boston in particular was key. Unfortunately, he was awful in that series against the Angels and the following year against Detroit (except for that relief appearance).

  146. luis March 14th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    I’m not a stats guy either, but i understand the jump in ERA is about one whole point, meaning that if he pitched to a 3.00 ERA, you would expect a jump in ERA to 4.00. Still, Kuroda has pitched increasingly well in the MLB. Granted he pitched in a big park and in the weakest division of the NL, but he still has the velocity, the repertoire and the pitching savvy to succeed even in the tough LA east. Plus is only a one year contract, which means if he doesn’t perform the team will be able to correct it without any effects beyond this season.

  147. Jerkface March 14th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    Randy Johnson spent at least as much time in the AL as the NL over his career. His success as a pitcher in his career was not a condition of being an “NL pitcher.” That is far, far afield.

    But of course the prior 7 years before becoming a Yankee he spent in the NL, so he didn’t have success as an older pitcher in the AL so he could not be trusted :twisted:

    Of course his AL experience was in the AL west, and we know that is the weakest division. Ideally the Yankees should only sign players who have played in the AL East for their entire career, preferably on the Yankees so we know they can handle it.

  148. ctyankeefan. March 14th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    Yikes, pointing out a pitcher that might not be great just because of a losing record. Ask King Felix what he thinks lol Among other pitchers with hardly any run support. Just sayin’ wins and losses are probably the worst stat to point out in these situations.

  149. J. Alfred Prufrock March 14th, 2012 at 11:54 pm

    A poster on another blog quoted a “scout” as saying our AAA rotation will probably be the best in the minors.

    I’m right proud of our kids, and just sorry that the Yankees seem to think they and Nova/Hughes suck so much they needed to trade away Montero for a young pitcher they “had” to have, and a guy in “A” ball who is apparently worth the price paid all by himself.

  150. luis March 14th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    Stuckey,

    What i meant to say is that he is probably ticked off by the trade….I don’t think he has ever express it, so he is expressing grief….You see, some of us want to root for the inside guy…We’ve been loving the youth movement that was taking place, and some of us are disappointed of what has transpired by the trade and it’s implications.

  151. stuckey March 14th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    “the Yankees seem to think they and Nova/Hughes suck so much”

    The Yankees think 2/5′s of their 2012 starting rotation “suck so much”?

    Yup, perspective continues to take a whipping on LoHud.

  152. stuckey March 15th, 2012 at 12:02 am

    “You see, some of us want to root for the inside guy…We’ve been loving the youth movement that was taking place, and some of us are disappointed of what has transpired by the trade and it’s implications.”

    I have no problem with his. But he named 2 players, one of which is recovering from arm surgery. Is it not fair and relevant to ask whom else – if anyone – he was referring to?

    He mentioned youth. Is it or is it not relevant to mention Pineda is younger than Chamberlain?

    That you feel like YOU need to explain his comments I think make my fair, honest questions about his comments understandable.

    No?

  153. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    “Yikes, pointing out a pitcher that might not be great just because of a losing record”

    Is that what I did? Gee, I thought I was responding to jerkface throwing out there that Kuroda was healthy and good. I didn’t see the word “great” anywhere.

    He had a losing record, his WHIP was worse than in previous years, and he was more inconsistent than he had been in previous years. Those are FACTS.

  154. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:08 am

    Yup, perspective continues to take a whipping on LoHud.

    See, this is the problem…Perspective according to whom?…as i said before, it depends on how you look at it… According to the FO perspective, they needed this guys because we needed more pitching than offense, if you agree with that, it makes sense.

    To others, we had plenty of pitching to go to war with, but our offense was getting old and streaky…We had no impact bats above A ball, but had plenty of arms as JAP’s statement attest for.. For that perspective the trade didn’t make sense, as simple as that.

  155. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    Pineda had a losing record but you’re quick to ask if a pitcher with his WHIP should have a losing record? Well should a pitcher with a 3 ERA have a losing record? 8 of Kuroda’s losses he gave up 3 R or less. 5 were 2 R or less. Stuff happens.

  156. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    “Still, Kuroda has pitched increasingly well in the MLB”

    Actually he had a little bit of a descent last year.

    Feel free to embrace him luis. All of the posters here who are spinning out of control because I’m questioning what he will do are free to worship at his throne, hang posters on him in your bedrooms, go to betting booths and put money down on your belief in his success. Nobody has anchors on your butts.

    Because I’m not prepared to buy into the ready-made transition doesn’t mean your feelings have to be hurt or your backs have to be up. All of your chatter is not going to convince me of squat.

    I’m going to wait and watch. If you want to hand him a Cy Young before the season starts, that’s your prerogative.

  157. stuckey March 15th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    “See, this is the problem…Perspective according to whom?”

    You tell me.

    Do you think the Yankees FO think Nova and Hughes suck?

    Yes or no?

  158. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    A 3 ERA in the NL is nothing to write home about seeing it would be equivalent to about a 4 in the AL.

    Did you bother watching Kuroda pitch last year? Seriously? I did and he wasn’t as good as he’s been in previous years. His WHIP rose too. He is 37 years old. And he pitched in the weakest division in the NL.

    All of that said, my main issue is the transition to the AL and his age. Okay?

  159. J. Alfred Prufrock March 15th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    To others, we had plenty of pitching to go to war with, but our offense was getting old and streaky…We had no impact bats above A ball, but had plenty of arms as JAP’s statement attest for.. For that perspective the trade didn’t make sense, as simple as that.
    ////

    luis, you’re first class, but you can’t make any headway with a Sweeney Murti clone who has a BF Skinner complex ;).

  160. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:19 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    “Still, Kuroda has pitched increasingly well in the MLB”

    Actually he had a little bit of a descent last year.

    Feel free to embrace him luis. All of the posters here who are spinning out of control because I’m questioning what he will do are free to worship at his throne, hang posters on him in your bedrooms, go to betting booths and put money down on your belief in his success. Nobody has anchors on your butts.

    Because I’m not prepared to buy into the ready-made transition doesn’t mean your feelings have to be hurt or your backs have to be up. All of your chatter is not going to convince me of squat.

    I’m going to wait and watch. If you want to hand him a Cy Young before the season starts, that’s your prerogative.

    ================================

    Trish,

    I have to embrace him as much as i have to embrace Pineda. i’m not saying that he is going to be a success, i just think that everything points out that he will. And again i know that when the time comes there is no one as committed to the Yankees as you are. So let’s wait and see what happens. :)

  161. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:21 am

    “To others, we had plenty of pitching to go to war with, but our offense was getting old and streaky”

    I’d really like some of those others to quantify the first part of the statement. I want names of all of the pitchers we had to go to war with this season. And then we can discuss the reality of each name.

  162. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:21 am

    A 3 ERA in the NL is nothing to write home about seeing it would be equivalent to about a 4 in the AL.

    Did you bother watching Kuroda pitch last year? Seriously? I did and he wasn’t as good as he’s been in previous years. His WHIP rose too. He is 37 years old. And he pitched in the weakest division in the NL.

    So you think pitchers add a run to their ERA going from the NL to the AL? The average starter in the AL had a 4.21 ERA, the average starter in the NL had a 3.94 ERA. Sorry, but a 3 ERA in the NL is not equivalent to a 4 ERA in the AL. By ERA+, which accounts for park and league difficulty, Kuroda was 21% better than average. Or about as good as Freddy Garcia pitched for the Yankees in the AL East in Yankee stadium.

    Yes, I watched Kuroda, not every game, but he has been one of my favorite players since he came over as I like Japanese players and wish them to do well. His WHIP rose sure, but he maintained a stellar K:BB and he still has his stuff. He was actually very unlucky in his previous years, which allowed him to beat out his previous bests in ERA despite ‘slipping’.

  163. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:23 am

    And even ‘slipping’ Kuroda’s WHIP would have been the best on the Yankees last year. And I don’t think anyone is worshiping him or handing him a CY Young, only giving him the respect he deserves as a player of his caliber.

  164. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    Do you think the Yankees FO think Nova and Hughes suck?

    Yes or no?

    ========================

    No.

  165. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:25 am

    luis – I have continued to say we should wait and see what happens, but it doesn’t seem to be enough for some of the know-it-alls here. Like the unequivocally know how he’s going to perform.

    I embrace Pineda because I’ve watched him pitch, because I know what he brings to the table, and because he has youth on his side, plenty of upside, and is an AL pitcher. I have no fear when it comes to him.

    If he was 37 coming from an NL career, I’d be plenty concerned about him. Again, I’d be concerned about any 37-year-old pitcher but if they had a proven record of success in the AL, that would alleviate some of the concern.

    If you can’t understand that, I can’t make it any more clear. And frankly I don’t feel I need to.

    I’m not asking anyone not to be sold on the guy. Nobody needs to try to sell him to me.

    I’m not an idiot. In fact I’m pretty observant. So I don’t need others telling me what he’s all about. I know what he’s all about.

  166. stuckey March 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    Luis, then please read the 11:54pm post and my 11:59pm reply and remind me what we’re arguing about?

  167. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    JF,

    In fairness i was the one that wrote that I thought the jump in ERA from NL to AL was about one whole point, not Trisha. My mistake, i think it used to be that way, but as i siad as well, i am not a stats guy.

  168. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:27 am

    “only giving him the respect he deserves as a player of his caliber.”

    I can respect what he’s done in his career and still question whether he can transition to the AL, especially at the age of 37. I don’t see the big deal.

  169. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:28 am

    luis, there is an accepted run differential from NL to AL. You weren’t wrong. If I have to research it to tell you exactly what it is, I will.

  170. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:30 am

    I meant to say there is an accepted ERA differential.

  171. jacksquat March 15th, 2012 at 12:30 am

    If Kuroda is pitches badly in spring training he should not make the rotation? Garcia had a 2011 spring training ERA over 6, and we know how he did.

    Kuroda will be put in the #2 slot. Not necessarily because he is definitely the 2nd best pitcher on the team (he may be), but because he is a veteran and Nova/Pineda/Hughes should not be put in that slot if for no other reason than possible psychological pressure.

  172. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    Stuckey,

    On that subject we agree, but still the FO seemed uncertain that we could go to war with those kids only and got a new toy that in the eyes of many was unnecessary.

  173. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:33 am

    I can respect what he’s done in his career and still question whether he can transition to the AL, especially at the age of 37. I don’t see the big deal.

    You have a right to your own opinion, but do not equate showing respect to a players ability as worship or award without merit.

  174. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    trisha,

    Rotation without Pineda: CC,Kuroda,Nova,Garcia, Hughes….Waiting in the wings Phelps, Warren, Mitchell and a little further down Betances and Banuelos.

    That was plenty enough to make it to the play offs, and you still have Montero

  175. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 15th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    To others, we had plenty of pitching to go to war with, but our offense was getting old and streaky…We had no impact bats above A ball, but had plenty of arms as JAP’s statement attest for.. For that perspective the trade didn’t make sense, as simple as that.
    ////

    luis, you’re first class, but you can’t make any headway with a Sweeney Murti clone who has a BF Skinner complex ;) .

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    LMAO!!, thank you so are you my friend!!, i just thought it needed to be said ;)

  176. jacksquat March 15th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    and Noesi.

  177. Nick in SF March 15th, 2012 at 12:42 am

    Hola! What’s the debate? Whether Kuroda will make the rotation — no doubt — or how well he will do there — no idea –?

  178. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    “You have a right to your own opinion, but do not equate showing respect to a players ability as worship or award without merit.”

    You have a right to respect a player’s ability but do not pretend that you know how or if it is going to equate in a totally different situation. Because you do not.

    *************

    luis, this article was written in 2006 and I don’t think life has changed dramatically since then, but according to the article you did have it wrong, The differential was not 1 run. It was 1.5.

    Take a read. Then maybe you’ll understand where I’ve been coming from. It amazes me that so few get it. But that’s on them, not on me.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2521701

  179. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    Ohh! i forgot, you could still give the chance to Joba to start, he could have been ready by the AS break or August at the latest.

  180. CompassRosy March 15th, 2012 at 12:45 am

    Sorry for the extremely belated replies – one of those days at work…

    ================================
    Irreverent Discourse March 14th, 2012 at 11:29 am
    “rosy – Do they need their own RSN being the only team withing like 1000 miles?”

    ~

    That’s precisely WHY they do….
    Seattle is the 12th largest TV market in the country but, when you consider that the Mariners market stretches from Oregon, to Vancouver BC to Alaska and from Idaho to Montana – that’s a whole lotta territory to cover and a lot of $$$ to be made.

    ===========================
    Stoneburner March 14th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    “I do feel for Mariners’ fans that they have had to endure the Jack Zombie years…”. To think – if he had traded King Felix at his height – post 2010 Cy Young – and traded him to stay the Blue Jays – Zombie could have received probably Lawrie, Romero, and D’Naud. Then if Zombie trades Pineda for Montero again – with Noesi. Zombie could have taken a longterm approach and seen that Washington’s prodigal son will hit the market after the 2013 season with Lincencum. Going into 2014 – you could have had a nice corp of players:

    D’Naud at catcher
    Montero at DH
    Ackley at 2b
    Lawrie at 3b
    possibly Smoak at 1b

    Rotation led by Lincencum, followed by Romero, Paxton, Danny H, and Noesi

    Oh well – things will get better – everyone has a Jack Zombie as a GM running their favorite team at some point. . . .”

    Don’t feel too bad SB…
    JZ had ziltch to work with and, in three years, has replenished the farm system that Bavasi decimated. Sure, he could have traded Felix but, he decided to sign him and build around him instead.

    Your projection of what could have been in 2014 is not that far off going into 2012 (and only stands to improve by 2014 as young ones mature and trades/FA acquisitions occur)….

    Montero DH/C
    Smoak 1B
    Ackley 2B
    Catricala/Seager/Liddi 3B
    Carp LF/DH

    The rotation will take a hit this year (while the young guns get some seasoning) but, by 2013 it could very well be: Felix, Paxton, Hultzen, Walker, Noesi/Beavan

    Could be the start of something good ….
    desperate to decent to dynasty

    ;-)

  181. Against All Odds March 15th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    Ohh! i forgot, you could still give the chance to Joba to start, he could have been ready by the AS break or August at the latest.

    —————————-

    :D

  182. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    jacksquat March 15th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    and Noesi.

    ========================

    THANK YOU!!

  183. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    luis, this article was written in 2006 and I don’t think life has changed dramatically since then, but according to the article you did have it wrong, The differential was not 1 run. It was 1.5.

    Take a read. Then maybe you’ll understand where I’ve been coming from. It amazes me that so few get it. But that’s on them, not on me.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/…..id=2521701

    Sample size. 1 year? And of course this wasn’t a statistical analysis it was a general manager saying:

    “You always had to make allowances,” said another general manager. “It used to be you’d factor in a half-run difference in a pitcher’s ERA (going from one league to the other). Now, it’s more like one and a half runs — or close to it.”

    The difference in 2007 was ~.7 runs and that was actually the difference between the average ERA in the AL and NL that year. But after a huge split around that time the NL and the AL ERA have closed.

  184. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    “Rotation without Pineda: CC,Kuroda,Nova,Garcia, Hughes….Waiting in the wings Phelps, Warren, Mitchell and a little further down Betances and Banuelos.

    That was plenty enough to make it to the play offs, and you still have Montero”

    luis, the Yankees acquired Pineda BEFORE they acquired Kuroda.

    Even J Al said earlier he was afraid that the Yankees were planning on trading Montero when Montero didn’t play winter ball. And others continued to say he was a trading chip, which wasn’t too much of a jump since he had been mentioned previously in a trade try.

    Apparently the Yankees weren’t sold on Montero or they didn’t feel they had a place for him because if they did, he’d be here.

  185. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    Pretty sure everyone gets it.

  186. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:50 am

    luis, the Yankees acquired Pineda BEFORE they acquired Kuroda.

    By minutes?

  187. m March 15th, 2012 at 12:50 am

    Wow. Just read through the thread.

    IMO, there’s about zero percent chance of Kuroda going to the pen.

    Has Kuroda had a bad spring? Doesn’t seem like it unless you’re buying into Kuroda’s self-critique.

    I have not seen or heard any concern about Kuroda’s ST or chances until tonight.

  188. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:50 am

    nick, the question has turned into how well he will do in the rotation since I conceded the point that the Yankees at 10 mil would likely be slotting him in.

    How well will he do? No way to know. Yes, that’s the appropriate answer.

  189. Against All Odds March 15th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    Apparently the Yankees weren’t sold on Montero or they didn’t feel they had a place for him because if they did, he’d be here.

    —————————-

    I hope they aren’t sold on this offense.

  190. stuckey March 15th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    “On that subject we agree,”

    Luis. If you read my response again it was clear I was commenting on the rhetoric – the hyperbole used to try to make this point … again.

    Frankly I’m of the opinion that the use of hyperbole suggest an unease with the merits of your argument, but that’s neither here nor there.

    More importantly, you now acknowledge you don’t agree with J.AP’s rhetoric, but somehow it is you and I arguing over it, rather than you and he?

    If you consider why that is, then you’ll better understand my position on this matter.

    That said:

    “but still the FO seemed uncertain that we could go to war with those kids only and got a new toy that in the eyes of many was unnecessary.”

    I’m going to surprise you.

    I don’t think Michael Pineda was “necessary” either (if we using the term’s actual meaning).

    Understand I don’t think Montero was “necessary” as well.

    But should the threshold on all transactions be was it “necessary”? Shouldn’t teams seize opportunities to improve their team, in both the short and long term, with the intent to improve margins?

    Now reasonable people can disagree whether or not the Yankees did that here. Me, I’m willing (unlike some others) to wait until the returns to count the votes on that one.

    But the argument that the Yankees made the trade because they think Hughes and Nova suck is a hyperbolic overreach that weakens the argument of those on the anti-trade side.

    You and I agree on that.

    So again the question becomes, why are you talking to me about it, rather than the person you disagree with?

  191. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:52 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    “Rotation without Pineda: CC,Kuroda,Nova,Garcia, Hughes….Waiting in the wings Phelps, Warren, Mitchell and a little further down Betances and Banuelos.

    That was plenty enough to make it to the play offs, and you still have Montero”

    luis, the Yankees acquired Pineda BEFORE they acquired Kuroda.

    Even J Al said earlier he was afraid that the Yankees were planning on trading Montero when Montero didn’t play winter ball. And others continued to say he was a trading chip, which wasn’t too much of a jump since he had been mentioned previously in a trade try.

    Apparently the Yankees weren’t sold on Montero or they didn’t feel they had a place for him because if they did, he’d be here.

    =================================

    Trisha,

    I’m not disputing that, he was a trade chip from the start, you are spot on. What i don’t agree with, is that he was a trade piece in the first place. I don’t agree with the FO logic and perspective, but i do understand it.

  192. J. Alfred Prufrock March 15th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    luis,

    Many here know next to nothing about Warren/Phelps/Mitchell or Betances. Banuelos is the only pitching prospect even in the more mainstream fan’s consciousness, therefore there is no sense for these fans that the system’s stacked with near ready ML arms.

    That has a great deal to do with the mainstream media acceptance and rousing approval of this trade and, that of the fan, who has no real knowledge of/curiosity about who’s in the system, even if elite. The “we have no pitching!” mantra is therefore an easy sell.

    Yanks also have young SP material for 2013 in Chamberlain, whether they’re smart enough to realize it and revise his future, remains to be seen.

    I’m off to bed. Have a great night, luis, & all.

  193. m March 15th, 2012 at 12:54 am

    I think the convention is to add or subtract .75 of a run between the leagues.

    I wonder if NL fans say, “imagine, he’ll be even better in the NL” when someone crosses over?

  194. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:55 am

    “luis, the Yankees acquired Pineda BEFORE they acquired Kuroda.

    By minutes?”

    I don’t care if it’s by milliseconds. You don’t mention a rotation with Kuroda in it yet take Pineda out of it when Pineda was already there when Kuroda was brought aboard. That’s not logical. There would not have been a rotation of CC, Hughes, Nova, Kuroda and Hughes unless it’s one in your dreams, and then that’s not reality since the Yankees didn’t do it that way. That rotation belongs to the reality null set.

  195. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 12:57 am

    I don’t care if it’s by milliseconds. You don’t mention a rotation with Kuroda in it yet take Pineda out of it when Pineda was already there when Kuroda was brought aboard. That’s not logical.

    They were acquired at the same time, and infact the trade was pending for days after it was announced due to physicals. They didn’t have to make the trade when they were close to signing Kuroda. I think that is the point. Its not like Garcia where they had him for a month+ before those other deals went down.

  196. luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:57 am

    Stuckey,

    Very good post. But to tell you the truth i don’t think JAP thinks that either, he is just too pissed with the trade. Please JAP correct if i’m wrong

  197. Against All Odds March 15th, 2012 at 12:58 am

    Yanks also have young SP material for 2013 in Chamberlain, whether they’re smart enough to realize it and revise his future, remains to be seen.

    ——————————

    :D

  198. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    “Theoretically, a pitcher’s E.R.A.+ should not be affected much by a change in leagues. But switching circuits still seems to make a substantial difference in how a pitcher performs.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01.....score.html

  199. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    “They didn’t have to make the trade when they were close to signing Kuroda. I think that is the point”

    It doesn’t matter what you think of the trade. The point is that the Yankees wanted both pitchers.

  200. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    I’m still on the Chamberlain SP train.

    :)

  201. Nick in SF March 15th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    I think it’s kind of odd to say something like “The Yanks will put Kuroda in the rotation because they’re paying him $10 million.”

    Better said, the Yanks signed Kuroda to join the rotation and the price tag was $10 million.

    The desire to have him in the rotation is what drove the signing.

  202. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    Again, that is based off 1 year, is now half of what you said before, and was in 2007 in a high offensive year. The article famously quotes Josh Becketts 5 ERA and Beckett has had more than a few highly above average years in the AL.

  203. J. Alfred Prufrock March 15th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:43 am
    Ohh! i forgot, you could still give the chance to Joba to start, he could have been ready by the AS break or August at the latest.
    /////

    luis, I see you already had made this point. Just shows a pitching depth, even when they make ridiculous decisions, there are still arms pushing up through the soil all over the place.

    Alright amigo, GN :D

  204. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    It doesn’t matter what you think of the trade. The point is that the Yankees wanted both pitchers.

    I’m not arguing that, just your semantics about Pineda already being acquired so it would have been impossible to not have him in the rotation but have Kuroda in it.

  205. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:06 am

    And for the love of God, the mantra that the Yankees could have still had Montero is a little bit like lunacy at this point. There is nothing that says the Yankees would have kept Montero. He was trade bait before. “The Yankees could have still had Montero” is nothing more than a security blanket for people unhappy with the trade.

    I’ve yet to see anything that indicated that the Yankees were planning to keep Montero around. It doesn’t appear that they were prepared to slot him in as a catcher, and it doesn’t appear that they had any desire to turn their DH position into a one-stop shop. It doesn’t even make sense to think that when you look at the Yankees aging offese and the way they do business!

    Would it have been tremendous to have Montero on the Yankees? I sure think so. Was it in their plans? It appears not. So no matter how many iterations you throw out there, it still doesn’t mean Montero would have been in the picture.

  206. stuckey March 15th, 2012 at 1:10 am

    “But to tell you the truth i don’t think JAP thinks that either, he is just too pissed with the trade.”

    Luis, I think we’re opening a can of worms by suggesting people in this forum should not respond to what people write, but what they really meant. You’ve taken of late to pejoratively accusing me of psychoanalyzing other posters, yet here you are assuming what J.AP REALLY meant without a whiff of self-aware irony on your part…

    That said, you’re responded favorably just a few moments ago to a poster insulting another (I guess it matter who gets insulted to be objectionable?), and read J.AP’s 12:53 post.

    He suggests in paragraph 1 anyone not on your side of the Montero debate doesn’t understand the Yankees system, in paragraph 2 these fans are puppets of the media, and in paragraph 3 they are flat out stupid… why? Only because they disagree with his position on Montero.

    Is this the sort of discourse you endorse?

    If not, why the double-standard of lately criticizing me?

    My guess is because agreement excuses all in forms like this.

    The quality of the dialogue doesn’t matter. Allegiances are made over agreement on issues, rather than how the arguments are waged.

    Me, I couldn’t care less whether or not someone agrees with me about Pineda/Montero. I’m more concerned with whose representing their side well.

    How about you?

  207. luis March 15th, 2012 at 1:11 am

    Good night my friend, Take care

  208. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    “I’m not arguing that, just your semantics about Pineda already being acquired so it would have been impossible to not have him in the rotation but have Kuroda in it.”

    It’s not semantics, it’s factual.

    “The New York Yankees, rebuffed in recent years to find a legitimate No. 2 starter behind ace CC Sabathia, got a pair of arms who could be up to that task when they acquired young right-hander Michael Pineda from the Seattle Mariners Friday for top hitting prospect Jesus Montero, and later signed free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda”

    Now if we’re just talking about what fans would have liked to see happen and felt that if it did happen, then another event may have taken place, that’s one thing.

    But if we’re talking reality, there would not have been a rotation with Kuroda, absent Pineda, since Pineda was gotten first. But the real obvious here is that this was one huge deal with the Yankees having every intention of having both players.

  209. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:16 am

    But if we’re talking reality, there would not have been a rotation with Kuroda, absent Pineda, since Pineda was gotten first.

    They were acquired at the same time. There COULD have been had the Yankees not made the trade, which is the point. Yes the Pineda news broke first, but they were busy signing Kuroda as well so they could have done one or the other. They did both.

  210. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:18 am

    “is now half of what you said before”

    Not what I said before, what an article said before.

    The common thread is that the NL is an easier place for pitchers to pitch. Only a dulwart would argue otherwise at this point. The corollary is that it’s harder for them to pitch in the AL than in the NL.

    Thus my discourse about the potential problems with transitioning.

    ***************

    nick, let me simplify it for you. The argument was made that the Yankees weren’t going to pay a pitcher $10 mil and then sit him in the bullpen. So pricetag does have something to do with the argument.

    If a pitcher sucks in ST but you’ve paid him 10 mil it’s because you believe he can pitch and will work out. Therefore it’s easier to put that person in the rotation than someone you’ve paid 5 mil who might be working out better.

    I don’t find that difficult to comprehend.

    Night.

  211. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:19 am

    and later signed free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda”

  212. luis March 15th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    Stuckey,

    First of all, i have to say that i misjudged you. For that i apologize. Now i have a better understanding of where you are coming from. You are a very logical person, for that kudos to you.

    And you are right about me speaking for others…i shouldn’t. It’s just that i have learned to understand them and i have become friends with some of them. That’s why i sometimes take prerogatives that i don’t have. Thank you for putting me in my place. It won’t happen again, unless i think is unfair to the person.

  213. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:21 am

    Yea you don’t have to bold it. He was signed…later. But you think that pitchers materialize out of the ether the minute they are signed? They were close enough to deal that it was announced while the montero trade rumors were swirling.

    These weren’t moves made with a week or months between them. Thus it is perfectly reasonable to posit that the Yankees could have elected to do 1 or the other.

  214. J. Alfred Prufrock March 15th, 2012 at 1:23 am

    luis March 15th, 2012 at 12:57 am
    Stuckey,

    Very good post. But to tell you the truth i don’t think JAP thinks that either, he is just too pissed with the trade. Please JAP correct if i’m wrong
    ;;;;

    luis, I have no idea what he said, sorry. I don’t read his vertiginous posts, but I might have suggested he pick up a volume of Strunk and White so he can just say what the Yankees tell him to in far less words.

    Seriously, I’ve told him I don’t read him, and he said he took no offense to that, which was very sweet, I thought. You know what I think about the trade, and I still think it! :D.

    I am now really going to bed, so sorry if you got pulled into the vortex meant for me! Later, bro!

  215. Against All Odds March 15th, 2012 at 1:23 am

    The Yankees were negotiating for months with Kuroda while working on the Pineda deal Wasn’t his name brought up numerous times as a pitcher the Yankees were interested in?

  216. Against All Odds March 15th, 2012 at 1:26 am

    I’m sorry meant to type *for all we know the Yankees were negotiating*

  217. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:26 am

    “Thus it is perfectly reasonable to posit that the Yankees could have elected to do 1 or the other.”

    BUT THEY DIDN’T! And if they didn’t, it’s because they didn’t believe that a rotation of CC, Kuroda, Hughes, Nova, and Garcia was enough to get them to the postseason. So it becomes a fallacy to say otherwise, unless one is positing nothing more than a fan’s perspective of how it could have been. I would shoot holes in that rotation readily as a “sure bet” since nobody knew how Hughes was going to come to ST.

    It’s also perfectly reasonable to posit that Montero was never part of their plans and his days were numbered, so there’s no need to figure out what could have been done otherwise for him to still be here. And that’s closer to reality than coming up with a rotation that has Kuroda and not Pineda.

  218. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:27 am

    BUT THEY DIDN’T!

    Durr, but that wasn’t the point of the post. They weren’t suggesting that reality isn’t what it is, only what they thought would have been a nice alternative.

  219. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:27 am

    “The Yankees were negotiating for months with Kuroda while working on the Pineda deal Wasn’t his name brought up numerous times as a pitcher the Yankees were interested in?”

    And?

  220. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:29 am

    “They weren’t suggesting that reality isn’t what it is, only what they thought would have been a nice alternative.”

    Oy vey! I think I questioned that distinction about ten posts ago!

  221. Against All Odds March 15th, 2012 at 1:32 am

    they could have done either one.

  222. stuckey March 15th, 2012 at 1:32 am

    Ah, ad hominem attacks…

    A textbook highlight of all I’ve been referring to the last 1/2 hour.

    Like I say, I can respect posters on either side of this debate. The respect comes from how you fight.

    Luis, you proud of what’s coming from your side the last little while?

  223. Nick in SF March 15th, 2012 at 1:36 am

    How about this: they didn’t sign Kuroda to compete for a rotation spot in spring training; they signed him to be in the rotation. He’s not competing for a spot; he’s getting ready for the season.

    I wish him well.

  224. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:36 am

    1:12 a.m.

    “Now if we’re just talking about what fans would have liked to see happen and felt that if it did happen, then another event may have taken place, that’s one thing.”

    1:26 .M.

    “So it becomes a fallacy to say otherwise, unless one is positing nothing more than a fan’s perspective of how it could have been

    **********

    luis, when I went back to find these, I saw something you posted to me. I’m famous for missing posts when a rapid-fire conversation is taking place. One of my deficiencies.

    I understand where you’re coming from. And from your perspective, it is extremely valid to look at things that way. And nothing’s to say that you’re incorrect. The only roadblock is that Yankees went in another direction.

    :)

    I am really tired and have DVRd so much good stuff – well stuff I consider good, like Survivor and also American Idol, which I am watching for the first time ever and only because someone from RI is in the competition.

    So I am going to try to watch a little telly. Sorry if I misinterpreted anything anyone was putting out there tonight.

  225. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:39 am

    Your original contention on Luis’ fantasy rotation is that it would be impossible because Pineda was acquired before Kuroda. Which is simply semantics. you seem to be constantly confusing what the yankees did with what fans wanted them to do and arguing all over the place about it.

  226. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:42 am

    mel, I don’t know if you’re still around but if you read the thread you would not have asked the questions you did about Kuroda. Lots of people are guilty of seeing what they want to see in posts, and I’m sure I’ve done it myself on occassion. But it’s always best not to express extreme surprise and then have it wrong.

    This started with my throwing out a freakin’ hypothetical. HYPOTHETICAL. So unless there were some phantom posts I didn’t see, I don’t remember reading anywhere that I or anyone else said he wasn’t doing well in ST.

  227. m March 15th, 2012 at 1:43 am

    The Yankees were linked to Kuroda since the last trade deadline.

    Here’s to Kuroda fulfilling the vision. :)

  228. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:44 am

    jerkface, don’t presume to tell me what I thought. I didn’t read luis’s rotation as a FANTASY rotation or I wouldn’t have questioned it. Anybody can come up with a fantasy rotation. I thought he was saying it was a possibility based on what the Yankees had already done with pitching.

    OKAY?

  229. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:45 am

    “The Yankees were linked to Kuroda since the last trade deadline. ”

    link? Only because I missed that one. So as soon as I see it in writing from a credible source then I accept it as a reality.

  230. m March 15th, 2012 at 1:46 am

    I am still around. I missed the hypothetical part. And you were defending yourself tooth and nail I actually believed you believed it!

    :)

  231. m March 15th, 2012 at 1:49 am

    But from what I can tell, you don’t seem to trust Kuroda. And that’s understandable. Though the league thing bothers me more than the stuff thing. Because he seems to have decent stuff

    Link? et tu, trisha? That makes me sad that you don’t trust me. :(

  232. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:52 am

    I didn’t read luis’s rotation as a FANTASY rotation or I wouldn’t have questioned it. Anybody can come up with a fantasy rotation. I thought he was saying it was a possibility based on what the Yankees had already done with pitching.

    What does this mean? Pineda OR Kuroda were certainly a possibility, being that both were acquired at the same time. Luis posted that he thought that rotation would have been good enough and kept Montero around.

  233. m March 15th, 2012 at 1:55 am

    There are too many to list.

    I googled “trade rumors hiroki kuroda Yankees 2011″ and a lot of stuff will pop up.

    Basically, he had a chance to go to Boston or NY at the trade deadline. We found out this year that he told the dodgers he wanted to stay there. He was headed back to Japan (he cried at then end if the season~loved it there) but decided to pass up better MLB offers to join the Yankees in 2012.

  234. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 1:56 am

    I was defending that someone who absolutely blew up in ST should have no place in the rotation. But since that hasn’t happened, I never posited it as a reality.

    We got off on so damned many tangeants that I was defending myself tooth and nail on any position I took on the many tangeants!

    Huge waste of time since I really wanted to watch television. But when I’m challenged, I of course will respond.

    :)

    And the reality is that it’s harder for NL pitchers to transition to the AL than vice versa. And the reasons are really easy to understand! (That was the origin of my initial argument, readily available to be seen in the lohud blogs from a very long time ago. ) But of course someone decided to say it was because I wanted Garcia in the rotation over Kuroda so was hoping Kuroda would fall on his face. So then I had to explain that it had nothing to do with Kuroda per se, since I had him on most of my fantasy teams. It had to do with any career NL pitcher at the age of 37 coming over to the Yankees, especially coming from the weakest division in the NL.

    If he does well it only makes life nicer for me because my goal is for the Yanks to win. But I fail to see the sin in my having pause about the NL to AL transition.

    Okay that about does it. Telly time for me and a prayer that nobody else felt like arguing something in the time I was writing this post!

  235. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 1:56 am

    The Yankees have had interest in Kuroda for a while now. In July, the Yankees tried to trade for Kuroda, but he showed an unwillingness to leave Los Angeles. Now, with the Dodgers not an option, it became more apparent that Kuroda would have to leave Southern California and the Yankees emerged as the most likely landing spot.

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/ml.....ources-say

    They also tried to sign him in the last offseason. But he signed with the Dodgers almost immediately.

  236. m March 15th, 2012 at 1:58 am

    Ack. He cried in the Dodgers clubhouse. Loved it there (with the Dodgers).

  237. m March 15th, 2012 at 2:01 am

    I knew my fact checker would come through!

  238. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:04 am

    “What does this mean? Pineda OR Kuroda were certainly a possibility, being that both were acquired at the same time. Luis posted that he thought that rotation would have been good enough and kept Montero around.”

    If they were both signed, they were both intended for the rotation. DUH.

    Now just let it go. OKAY? Stop the f’n merry-go-round.

    I said TWICE if it was a fantasy rotation, then that was a different story.

    And I already said generically that if I misinterpreted anyone’s intentions I apologize.

    Stop being hateful. Leave it alone. I’m totally sure you get it. You have some peverse need to grind things into the ground well past the time that they need to be dealt with. Save it for randy.

  239. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 2:09 am

    If they were both signed, they were both intended for the rotation. DUH.

    But he wasn’t saying both would be acquired, only the 1 he put in the rotation :) You of course recognized this, as your first contention against it was that it was an impossibility. But maybe you’ve now eased up on that into ‘possibility’.

  240. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:10 am

    “But he wasn’t saying both would be acquired, only the 1 he put in the rotation You of course recognized this, as your first contention against it was that it was an impossibility”

    AND THAT’S THE VERY REASON I CALLED HIM ON IT, DUH, BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A REALITY AND NOT A FANTASY SITUATION.

    :)

  241. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:11 am

    AND IT’S ONLY A POSSIBILITY IN SOMEONE’S FANTASY ROTATION.

    :)

  242. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:11 am

    THIS MAKES ABOUT THE FOURTH TIME I’VE STATED THAT.

  243. jacksquat March 15th, 2012 at 2:12 am

    I think the point is that the Yankees could have easily signed Kuroda without trading for Pineda. Kuroda signing did not depend on the Pineda deal.

    Damn lawyers will argue anything. ;)

  244. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:13 am

    AND MY REASON FOR SAYING IT WAS AN IMPOSSIBILITY WAS EXACTLY BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH ACQUIRED AND SO I THOUGHT HE HAD FORGOTTEN WHICH ONE CAME FIRST AND THOUGHT KURODA COULD HAVE BEEN THERE WITHOUT PINEDA.

    So apparently I wasn’t thinking fantasy rotation. Or I wouldn’t have suggested what I did.

    :)

  245. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:16 am

    jacksquat – you a lawyer? I didn’t know that.

    And yes, from what you said, it is obvious that those damned lawyers will argue anything!

    :)

    Including how to indict a ham sandwich.

  246. m March 15th, 2012 at 2:17 am

    So we have 6 good pitchers.

    The Sox are depending on Doubront to grab the 5th spot so that Aceves can go to the pen. So it’s looking like Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, Bard, Doubront. Not bad. Hoping that it doesn’t work out so well.

    They’re pursuing Oswalt. Also scouting pitchers like Floyd, Lannon, and Blanton.

    It hurt to give up Montero, but I’m liking our rotation a lot better than Boston’s.

  247. m March 15th, 2012 at 2:20 am

    And we have 5 starters sitting in AAA waiting to answer the call.

    Not familiar with the Sox system. Is Doubront their most ready AAA guy or was he a pickerupper?

  248. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:22 am

    Dubront came from Pawtucket.

    “It hurt to give up Montero, but I’m liking our rotation a lot better than Boston’s.”

    Agree on both counts.

  249. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:25 am

    I saw him pitch in Pawtucket and he had great stuff. I’m hoping that they’ve ruined him.

  250. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:26 am

    Night mel. Night all. This East Coast kiddo is signing off.

    :)

    Peace out.

  251. m March 15th, 2012 at 2:27 am

    Well, it seems like he’s going into the rotation or pen. Wonder if fans around the Nation are screaming, “Doobie is a stahtah!!!”?

  252. jacksquat March 15th, 2012 at 2:28 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 15th, 2012 at 2:16 am
    jacksquat – you a lawyer? I didn’t know that.

    And yes, from what you said, it is obvious that those damned lawyers will argue anything!

    Including how to indict a ham sandwich.

    —-

    I thought you were a lawyer…

  253. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 2:36 am

    AND THOUGHT KURODA COULD HAVE BEEN THERE WITHOUT PINEDA.

    But Kuroda could have been there without Pineda.

  254. Jerkface March 15th, 2012 at 2:37 am

    BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT A REALITY AND NOT A FANTASY SITUATION.

    Did you really think he thought the Yankees didn’t acquire Pineda? A realistic scenario is a bit different from a fantasy situation. Luis was talking about a realistic scenario, one where the Yankees only acquire Kuroda. WHich was of course, very possible. And that was what he preferred.

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  256. The Genius Maker March 15th, 2012 at 5:30 am

    Looks like everyone had a good night! A few comments. The general consensus is that changing leagues can add about 0.5 runs to your ERA. If you break it down it is probably closer to 0.4, but there is a clear difference in the leagues. It also depends on the type of pitcher you are, although with all the movement I think it is less important now. The strike zone should be the same, but when i watch NL games it seems different to me (but this may be just my perception). In general, the “slop” pitchers tend to do worse from transferring from the NL to the AL.

    Some talked about Randy Johnson with us; RJ had a very good 1st year with us in the regular season. if you make good pitches you can pitch well no matter where you are, but in the AL the lineup is usually 2 players different (The DH) and because there are less runs usually a SS type of position focuses more on defense than offense.

  257. Ys Guy March 15th, 2012 at 7:38 am

    yeah baby, 42 point win! mike woodson best coach in knicks history! we’re on our way!

    :)

  258. blake March 15th, 2012 at 7:48 am

    GM,

    I agree without thosegames comments. There is a difference between the leagues…..but if you can pitch then you can pitch and often times the pitchers new team in the AL scores more runs to help balance it out…..the AL is a higher run scoring environment for all the teams….

    Folks like to use Javy as an example…..well Javy didn’t struggle because he moved to the AL…..he struggled mainly because he lost 4 mph on his fastball over that winter…..probably because he was hurt and wouldn’t tell anyone.

  259. blake March 15th, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Yankeesource @YankeeSource 9h Michael Pineda going tomorrow, wonder if they are giving out radar guns to the first 5,000 fans.

  260. Mike Ri March 15th, 2012 at 7:59 am

    Yankeesource @YankeeSource 9h Michael Pineda going tomorrow, wonder if they are giving out radar guns to the first 5,000 fans.


    LOL

  261. randy l. March 15th, 2012 at 8:05 am

    “Stop being hateful. Leave it alone. I’m totally sure you get it. You have some peverse need to grind things into the ground well past the time that they need to be dealt with. Save it for randy.”

    wow, i am so in some people’s heads .

    even when i’m not around i’m there.

    just the way i used to like to have hitters before calling the perfect pitch to punch them out :)

  262. Erin March 15th, 2012 at 8:35 am

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  263. blake March 15th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Randy,

    Battle of Yankee ruined starters today right ;)

  264. Ys Guy March 15th, 2012 at 8:42 am

    good morning erin, lohud.

    i was under the impression that you were being much mellower about your objection to the trade and being really fair and pretty objective regarding pineda lately.

    i guess you’ve just got some sworn enemies now. if you’re getting them hot under the collar now, just wait till you put the full-court press on again! you’re gonna make thier heads explode! :)

  265. Ys Guy March 15th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    sorry i meant randy was being mellower. erin’s always mellow.

  266. randy l. March 15th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    the one thing that’s kind of humorous to me is that most posters act like any predictions about montero and pineda can be decided before they actually play.

    there is a range of possibilities. that can happen. just like with kuroda or any other player.

    baseball is a game of probabilities and then hunches land on top of the probabilities.

    that was the billy beane character in the moneyball movie.

    he believed in probability but he strongly went with his hunches too.

    i have a hunch that pineda is going to struggle in new york and montero thrive anywhere he plays, and there is a probability that both these hunches will happen.
    however there is a chance that neither will happen.

    thus the debate.
    my criticism with the trade was that cashman traded a high probability for a lower probability guy.

    both ceilings are hall of fame.
    the question is where the floors are.

    baseball has short term results and long term results. perfect for long arguments that run years.
    perfect for trash talking in the short term.
    where would baseball be without fans arguing ?

    it’s part of the game.

  267. randy l. March 15th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    “i was under the impression that you were being much mellower about your objection to the trade and being really fair and pretty objective regarding pineda lately.”

    ys guy-

    i think i’m articulating it more precisely.

    at first i was emphasizing the hunch part more than the probability part.

    it’s like you come to a fork in the road. both directions look equal. one gets you where you are trying to go and one doesn’t. so it’s 50/50.

    you have to make a decision, so you go with your hunch.

    my hunch is we as yankee fans are really going to miss montero.

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