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Cashman: “Andy Pettitte’s worth complicating things for”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 16, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Today’s stunning Andy Pettitte signing began coming together back in December when Pettitte heard Brian Cashman give a radio interview during which Cashman said Pettitte could be a great pitcher again if he came back this season. To Cashman’s surprise, Pettitte called him in late December to say he might be interested in doing just that.

“It wasn’t really helpful to me because I said, ‘What are you telling me?’” Cashman said. “He goes, ‘I don’t know what I’m telling you. It’s just something I’m thinking about.’ I kind of forced it a little bit, or tried to.”

To force it, Cashman offered a contract worth $10-12 million. He also told Pettitte he was in negotiations to trade for Michael Pineda and sign Hiroki Kuroda, and if those deals went through, the available money and roster spots would be gone. Pettitte couldn’t commit, and told Cashman he would need six weeks to workout and decide whether he wanted to play.

“We kinda agreed that something may not happen,” Pettitte said. “So (I wanted to) keep working out, see if you can get the juices flowing.”

At that point, Pettitte to the Yankees was still a longshot. Step-by-step, though, the whole thing came together.

Mid-January: The Yankees acquire Pineda and Kuroda

PETTITTE: “When they signed those guys, (Cashman) called me and said you can shut it down. The money (the Yankees) were going to use is gone. And the spot in the rotation, we have 7 starters now – because at that time we had AJ – and they said, ‘Go ahead and shut it down.’ And I said, ‘Ok.’ And after about 3-4 days, I looked at my wife, and I said, ‘Babe, I was loving working out.’ I couldn’t commit to them, but I was loving working out. So she said keep working out. So I kept working out.”

CASHMAN: “We wound up doing deals. I called him and just said, ‘By the way, you’ve seen what we’ve done.’ He goes, ‘I get it, no worries, I’m going to shut it down. I understand. Appreciate the honesty.’ That was it. So we have now two additional pitchers. We’re excited about it. … He said he shut it down. He’ll tell you, I’m not sure if it was a week to 10 days. It was no more than 10 days, at least a week that he said he shut it down. But unbeknownst to me, he got it going again.”

Late February: Pettitte comes to camp as a guest instructor

PETTITTE: “The reason I couldn’t commit to the Yankees earlier was because I didn’t have time to get on the mound and do the stuff I needed to do to tell them whether or not I could get there. During my work right now, my bullpen work, I can feel it all coming back, as far as the mental side of it. … I didn’t know if I would tell them or not (about the workouts). I told Hal and Cash, ‘Y’all told me to quit working out, but I’ve still been working out, and I’ve still been throwing, and I think I would love to play, man.’ They were like, ‘Oh my goodness. How are we going to work this out?’”

CASHMAN: “The day he left, he met with me. If he had a flight that afternoon he grabbed me and shut the door (in Girardi’s office) and said, ‘I’ve got to tell you something.’ … We know he can pitch in New York. He’s left-handed, and I know he’s obviously certainly long in tooth, but he’s also done the transition from power pitcher to some degree from the left side to tremendous pitchability. All that equipment is still there, or should still be there. Let’s go see. Why not?”

Tuesday morning: Pettitte threw a top-secret, early-morning bullpen in Tampa

CASHMAN: “He came down here before the Red Sox night game. He showed up here at 7:30 a.m. in front of myself, Larry (Rothschild), Joe (Girardi) and I brought Gene Michael over and we watched him do a bullpen. Not for a tryout purpose, but in a lot of discussions it was like, ‘Well, how far are you away?’ He said he’d been working out since January. He said he’d been throwing batting practice to his kids. He’d done at least six bullpens. At the same time, he wasn’t in a spring training camp type workout for pitchers. It was one of those things where I think mentally, he thinks he’s farther ahead than he is and privately we think he might be farther away than he thinks he is, so he did a bullpen here. Guys can work out all winter, but you get under the sun, you get a feel for it this way. That gave us and him a little bit more information.”

GIRARDI: “It was pretty good. He did his regular warmup, which I think is 34 pitches. Then he probably threw to (the equivalent of) three hitters, 15 pitches or so. He had all of his pitches. He threw them all. He threw them all pretty well. He got a little tired at the end but that’s to be expected I think. That’s somewhat of a long bullpen. We were pleased, and I can’t believe no one ever said anything.”

PETTITTE: “Once I stood on that mound, the other morning, it was like I’d never left. Even though it was Tuesday morning, and Cashman was standing there with Gene Michael and Joe, and Larry, and it was just like I had never left to tell you the truth. It was really weird.”

This morning: Agreed to $2.5-million deal during call with Cashman, Randy Levine and Hal Steinbrenner

CASHMAN: “It’s not easy when you make an offer of anywhere from 10, 11, 12 million in the wintertime in late December, to it’s now March whatever, and this is the best we can do. … He’s worth more than this, clearly, if he’s right. You know that. But we’re at the stage of the game now — just like anybody who signs in January, February, March, some of these free agents that are still sitting out there — they’re not going to get what they think they’re worth. It’s now about getting a job and taking what they can get.”

GIRARDI: “Until it was done I didn’t necessarily think (it would happen). I hadn’t known about it for very long, so I thought maybe when he threw his bullpen it would be a reality, and then it didn’t happen the next day or that day, so then I thought, well maybe it’s not going to happen. Really, until today I didn’t believe it was going to be a reality.”

PETTITTE: “Swish just called me and was screaming on the phone. I’ve talked to the guys, I’ve texted with pretty much all of them, before we released this, because I wanted to them to know. … Mo doesn’t know for sure. Mo’s not carrying a cell phone around anymore, he told me. He probably found out today. I did talk to Jeet. They’re excited, they’re fired up. I think the first text message I got when it came out was from Jorge. He’s fired up, and just saying congrats, and just wishing me the best.”

Next Tuesday: Pettitte is scheduled to arrive in Tampa to join the team

PETTITTE: “I’m sure I’ll be in touch with Larry, the pitching coach, then it’ll just be me and him getting this figured out, and figuring out exactly how slow they need to take me. I’m throwing bullpens where I’m throwing 60 or so pitches in a bullpen, so that’s built up pretty good right there, but I may have to back off from that to just start getting my leg stuff, covering bases, things like that. I haven’t done any of that on a daily basis.”

GIRARDI: “Obviously the next step is to get him prepared to pitch. He’s got to go through a spring training, basically. I can’t tell you exactly when he’ll be ready. You’ve got to make sure his legs are healthy and in shape, not healthy but in shape to take on what it takes to be a starting pitcher. He knows. He’s done it so many times, but we’ve got to make sure his legs are underneath him.”

CASHMAN: “He hasn’t thrown in a game since October 2010. We’re going to make sure we do the right thing, not cut a corner and rush and put him in a position where this is a waste of time and he’s not going to be in a position to stay healthy and be healthy and not be effective. He’s got to go through and get ready. … Does it complicate things? Yeah it does. But Andy Pettitte’s worth complicating things for.”

Associated Press photo

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398 Responses to “Cashman: “Andy Pettitte’s worth complicating things for””

  1. Dj March 16th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Awesome timeline…can’t wait to see what happens!

  2. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 16th, 2012 at 10:15 pm

    Does it complicate things? Sure. But how do you turn down the opportunity to have Andy Pettitte come back and pitch for you. I think the answer is that you just don’t.

    Mama mia! I think I’m still in shock!!!

  3. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    Chad,

    Thanks for the blow by blow lowdown on how this came together. There were more twists and turns than the Crookedest Mile in San Francisco. Sounds like it was tougher to hammer out than signing Burnett, Teixeira and Sabathis within a 2 week span.

  4. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    Go get ‘em, Andy!

  5. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    ***Sabathia***

  6. cs in la March 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    Man, I’ve had the worst day at work today, but leaving with the biggest smile on my face!

    Thank you Andy!

  7. CountryClub March 16th, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Good stuff, Chad.

  8. Ys Guy March 16th, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    is it just me, or does this knicks coach actually look like he gives a damn?

  9. jr1212 March 16th, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    Welcome Back Andy!!!! This season just got much more intetesting

  10. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
    Go get ‘em, Andy!

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Makes you wonder if this wasn’t Cashman’s master plan all along, only figuring the lure of a $10-$12 mil a year contract would make it happen sooner. Credit Pettitte for not taking the money and running with it, instead of making sure he was fully committed.

  11. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    It didn’t feel right, that Andy’s career would end in an excellent but losing effort opposite Cliff Lee.

    The crowd was consumed with the high-stakes game, when Andy walked off the mound there was no appropriate send-off.

  12. Howard Cosell March 16th, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    Looks like Andy’s our new lefty reliever out of the bullpen. There’s no way he is going to start. He’ll just be happy playing every so often….

    HC

  13. Tom in N.J. March 16th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    This news made my day.

  14. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:26 pm

    Next up? Posada resting his body for a couple of months and then announcing his return to mash 25 balls into the seats?

  15. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    Nah, Andy’s coming back to start. Book it.

  16. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    Greenberet

    You also fail or refuse to realize that only twice in nearly 85 years have the Yanks made a rookie a front line catcher…Bill Dickey and Thurman Munson. Montero was not going to move Martin out this year. Not only that, but, legitimate concerns about the health/effectiveness of the young pitching and age of the two other starters led to the belief that they needed another front line type starter this year…..and going forward.
    ///

    I think it’s you who fails to realize I wasn’t demanding, like, ever, that he be the first-string catcher as a rookie. I was content for him to be the backup to the Great Russell Munson, whose brilliance, to hear Cashman speak of him, would extend to brilliantly mentoring the Gloveless Wonder. I guess they figured, even Russell Munson could not redeem the Great Redeemer .

    You look around the room, and you tell me again, with a straight face, about those pitching concerns.

  17. luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:27 pm

    I guess they figured, even Russell Munson could not redeem the Great Redeemer :D .

    ==========================

    I love this line!! :)

  18. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    GB, I never believed he would stay retired. You could hear in his voice that he wasn’t through with the game.

    Pruf, yep, always bothered me too. He pitched his heart out that game in that game 3 ALCS. He doesn’t know how else to pitch.

  19. jr1212 March 16th, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    Ys guy,

    Woodson comes from the Bobby Knight tree….that might have something to do with it

  20. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    Posada returns as PT DH, PT C, PT 1Baseman and back-up 2nd baseman

  21. luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    You look around the room, and you tell me again, with a straight face, about those pitching concerns.
    =======================================

    CC,Kuroda,Pettite,Nova,Hughes…..Garcia, Joba, Noesi,Phelps,Warren,Mitchell….later on The B’s

    Yup, we don’t have pitching ;)

  22. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

    If that happens, I’ll know GB’s here on the Yankees’ dime ;).

  23. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
    You look around the room, and you tell me again, with a straight face, about those pitching concerns.
    =======================================

    CC,Kuroda,Pettite,Nova,Hughes…..Garcia, Joba, Noesi,Phelps,Warren,Mitchell….later on The B’s

    Yup, we don’t have pitching
    ////

    We’re obscenely flush in pitching ;).

  24. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Oh, come on. Of the 12 main starters in camp, 7 of them missed time with injuries last season and 2 are gone. That doesn’t even include Pettitte or Marshall. Tell me again about no pitching concerns.

  25. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Yanks game replay is on YES right now; Cash interview from earlier today is coming up after the commercial.

  26. mick March 16th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

    is it just me, or does this knicks coach actually look like he gives a damn?
    ==============
    Woodsanity!
    He is all business and damn sure will hold them accountable.
    Defense!

  27. luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Oh, come on. Of the 12 main starters in camp, 7 of them missed time with injuries last season and 2 are gone. That doesn’t even include Pettitte or Marshall. Tell me again about no pitching concerns.

    =====================================

    Does Pineda comes with a no injury warranty?

  28. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    Not any more so than Sabathia, Kuroda or any other pitcher.

  29. luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    GB7,

    Very true, but regardless the pitching depth the Yankees had and have would have been able to sustain the inevitable injuries, all except CC i guess.

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    Who do you think you’re foolin? You spoke daggers to everyone here who wanted Ubaldo, who wanted Danks, Gio – who wanted anyone out there (not that I disagreed, but that’s neither here nor there), you did the same for anyone here who questioned Hughes as a legit starter (again, I sympathize with that view, but that’s not the point). You thought the pitching was just fine. Now, you’re whistling a different tune, because they went and got a starter (granted, one I’d much rather have than any of those guys – but not for Jesus f’n Montero!).

    And who was it, in here, leading the cry that Montero can catch? Was that maybe……you?

  31. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:46 pm

    Does Pineda comes with a no injury warranty?
    ////

    Well, does he? ;)

  32. luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    And who was it, in here, leading the cry that Montero can catch? Was that maybe……you?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    To be fair, i was banging that drum and still do

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
    GB, I never believed he would stay retired. You could hear in his voice that he wasn’t through with the game.

    Pruf, yep, always bothered me too. He pitched his heart out that game in that game 3 ALCS. He doesn’t know how else to pitch.
    ///

    Yea it bothered me about Jorge, too, but at least every AB last year was serenaded with applause and standing ovations.

    In 2009, when he left the WS clinching game, there was an out-pouring of “An-dy Pet-titte!”, but those were happy times, so the fan could pause and take stock of the moment, and the thought (at the time) that it might be the end for him, right there.

  34. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:49 pm
    And who was it, in here, leading the cry that Montero can catch? Was that maybe……you?

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    To be fair, i was banging that drum and still do
    ///

    But that’s just it; you still do.. others here, who defended his catching skills, why, now when they are mocked, we hear…..crickets…..

  35. luis March 16th, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    JAP,

    I am about to watch today’s game, I understand that Hughes pitched very well

  36. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    luis, he pitched quite well. I only hope his chance isn’t fake.

  37. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    I’ve said it from the beginning at I didn’t like the trade…not because it included Pineda, but, because it included Montero. I still don’t like the trade, but, I do understand why it was made. NYY needed another front line starter and Hughes, off of last year wasn’t it. Doesn’t mean he on’t be, because I think he will.

    Did I want Jiminez? Not on your life. Not for what they wanted after his fade from the start of the season. They admitted that he wasn’t worth the talent they were requesting from NY but, they refused to move off of it. That’s by Cashman told them to take their offer or forget it. As far as Danks….not on a trade. A free agent signing, yes. For the record, I never said Montero couldn’t catch. I placed him somewhere between Posada and Piazza and still do. His bat would cover that. I only said the Yanks wouldn’t turn over the catching spot to any rookie, Montero or Romine included. Now? Anything else you want to twist around to fit your needs?

  38. stuckey March 16th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Anyone who over the last two years were either critical of or defended Montero’s catching we’re equally guilty of engaging in confirmation bias.

    Unless you happened to spend a lot of time in Scraton, Pa.

  39. RMS March 16th, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    Pitching, pitching, pitching, you can never have enough. Great to have Andy back.

  40. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    luis, he pitched quite well. I only hope his chance isn’t fake.

    ===========================

    To be honest, i think he is going to be traded….Once Andy is ready what are they going to do with him?, bump him to the long man role?….I think this tells us that the FO doesn’t have faith in him either, when you add everything you start to have a clear picture of the motives that compelled them to move the Jesus.

  41. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:06 pm

    GB7,

    For what is worth, that’s a very good post

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    Anything else you want to twist around to fit your needs?
    ///

    Hold on there, it was you who said I wanted Montero to be a front-line catcher in his first year. Where the hell you got that from, I can’t say, because I never posted any such thing – to talk of twisting things.

    You didn’t like the trade, and I liked it even less. I’m not going to get in line and say it was “necessary” as you’ve now convinced yourself. You want to run with that, knock yourself out.

  43. m March 16th, 2012 at 11:07 pm

    There may have been 2 people who wanted Ubaldo. That was a dead-end deal.

    Thanks for the breakdown of events. This post was the equivalent of how many tweets?

  44. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    NY has until early May to decide what to do, but Garcia may make that decision easier if he asks to go where he can start and has a chance at the PS.

  45. Yank1 March 16th, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    Just from surveying Yankees fans, it seems maybe like 2% of them were actually in favor of the Pineda deal. Even the ones who staunchly defend everything the Yankees do seemed hesitant about this trade and offered a “wait and see” approach, or they rationalized it from the Yankees perspective and won’t complain non-stop about it, but still wouldn’t have done it or think it was necessary.

    Very few were 100% in favor of it… and for most Yankee trades, that number is somewhere between 55-75%. Like most people loved the Grandy trade. Vazquez trade was kind of split but no one really was leery of giving up Melky/Vizcaino (even guys who liked him mentioned he was 5 years away and they had similar guys like him). The unanimous approval rating of the Pineda trade to where the Yankee fan has no issues, regrets, and think it was a brilliant trade is, like I said, probably around 2%.

  46. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    stuckey March 16th, 2012 at 11:01 pm

    Anyone who over the last two years were either critical of or defended Montero’s catching we’re equally guilty of engaging in confirmation bias.

    Unless you happened to spend a lot of time in Scraton, Pa.

    =======================

    No matter how you slice it, it is always going to be subjective…I happened to watch the kid play in the instructional league down here for about 25 games… Whatever made me believe that he can catch is my opinion and that always implies some level of subjectivity.

  47. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    To be honest, i think he is going to be traded….Once Andy is ready what are they going to do with him?, bump him to the long man role?….I think this tells us that the FO doesn’t have faith in him either, when you add everything you start to have a clear picture of the motives that compelled them to move the Jesus.
    ///

    It’s like the Yankees have become their lowest common denominator fan – the guy who thinks all our prospects suck, and that everyone else’s are better.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    For the record, I never said Montero couldn’t catch
    ///

    Uh, for the record, I said you said he COULD catch….that was the point.

  49. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Yank1,

    I hated the Vazquez deal, liked the Grandy deal, and hate doesn’t begin to approach my reaction to this Montero trade.
    ///

    Hughes in on YES replay.

  50. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    JAP,

    I’m trying to watch Hughes did he pitched after CC? I’m using MLB TV

  51. MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    I’m absolutely thrilled that Andy is coming back and really could care less if he makes more than 8-10 starts during the regular season as long as he is at full strength for the post-season.

    The Yankees will figure out a way to pitch him enough to keep him both healthy and sharp during the season while allowing the young guys to get in enough innings, it’s all workable without trading anyone except possibly (and probably) Garcia, who deserves a chance to pitch full time as a starter with someone.

    This isn’t about the regular season, this is about the post-season where a guy with Andy’s track record can easily be the difference between winning and losing a series.

    You can tell from the obvious excitement among the Yankees players how much they respect him and enjoy playing behind him. Add me to that list as well.

  52. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    luis, I’m forgetting, but Soriano might have been in between CC and Hughes. Let me check gameday.

  53. m March 16th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    Hughes pitched innings 5-8.

  54. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    It’s pretty obvious that you wanted Martin out so he “wouldn’t hold Montero back”. Your constant snide “Russell Munson” remarks shows that. That got old and tiresome after the first time. Guess what? Martin was going to be the front line catcher until Montero’s defense improved to the Posada/Piazza level or Romine got his bat staightened out. Martin is quite likely to make a lot of people on here look rather stupid. He’s not a .237 hitter, but, he has power and he can run. also a damned fine receiver. Was I for signing him? No, because I didn’t think he could hold up physically. I was wrong. all he got was worn down.

    Whether you care to admit it or not, Pineda was necessary. Hughes, Garcia, Warren, Marshall, Phelps, Stoneburner, Betances and Banuelos were all hurt last year and missed rather considerable time. NYY got lucky when they planted those magic beans and Garcia and Colon sprouted instead of a beanstalk. You want to gamble on that 2 years in a row?

  55. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    Yank1,

    I liked the Grandy deal, understood the Vasquez deal….On the Montero trade, i’m on the Beyond Stupidity trade bandwagon

  56. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    luis, soriano pitched one inning after CC, who went 3, then Hughes pitched four.

  57. MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    I wonder if Jorge is having second thoughts about his retirement right now with his other buddies all back in the fold.

    He raked from the left side at the end of last year and in the playoffs, how great would it be if he signed a similar deal to Andy’s and came back for a final ring in 2012.

  58. stuckey March 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    “No matter how you slice it, it is always going to be subjective…I happened to watch the kid play in the instructional league down here for about 25 games… Whatever made me believe that he can catch is my opinion and that always implies some level of subjectivity.”

    Of course it’s all subjective Luis, that’s not in dispute. But saying it’s subjective doesn’t change the fact it is based on VERY little to any detailed observation.

    The most likely explanation (depending on your position) is:

    1.) Relying on the common wisdom provided by scouts/analyists; or alternatively –

    2.) wishful thinking.

  59. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    I wonder if Jorge is having second thoughts about his retirement right now with his other buddies all back in the fold.

    He raked from the left side at the end of last year and in the playoffs, how great would it be if he signed a similar deal to Andy’s and came back for a final ring in 2012.

    ================================

    That would be awesome, but you have to get rid of Ibanez first. :(

  60. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 11:20 pm
    It’s pretty obvious that you wanted Martin out so he “wouldn’t hold Montero back”. Your constant snide “Russell Munson” remarks shows that.
    ///

    I’ll be perfectly clear: if Russell Munson was going to hold Montero back, you bet your ass I’d have wanted him gone. That does not mean I ever said Montero should be the first-string catcher in his first season. But really, if Martin could hold Montero back, that’s on the Yankees, not on Martin. I would have been pleased as punch to have Martin be the main catcher, so long as Montero was the backup until he could handle more. So don’t make stuff up.

    As for calling him Russell Munson, that’s a dig at Cashman more than Martin. I don’t like Cashman any more, so I have no remorse about that, LOL.

  61. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm

    I wonder if Jorge is having second thoughts about his retirement right now with his other buddies all back in the fold.

    He raked from the left side at the end of last year and in the playoffs, how great would it be if he signed a similar deal to Andy’s and came back for a final ring in 2012.
    ///

    He was not going to be brought back as a Yankee and he knew that, so his choice was play for someone else or retire. It wasn’t his choice.

  62. m March 16th, 2012 at 11:28 pm

    MG,

    I don’t think Jorge had an option with the Yankees.

  63. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    Stuckey, au contraire, many of us have watched Montero play for 5 years.

    m, yep, no option at all. They wanted Posada to disappear as quickly as possible.

  64. GreenBeret7 March 16th, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:24 pm
    I wonder if Jorge is having second thoughts about his retirement right now with his other buddies all back in the fold.

    He raked from the left side at the end of last year and in the playoffs, how great would it be if he signed a similar deal to Andy’s and came back for a final ring in 2012.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    His left handed bat was plenty quick enough. The shocker was from his natural side (right side)and until last year was generally his best. What happened? Who knows? same thing happened to Williams, I believe. I think he could still do it, but, no question that he needs to work on his 2nd base play. With Pettitte, I think that he was just beat up and his arm was barking at the end of 2010. He also had that deep groin pull in August and probably never quite healed.

  65. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    I don’t know that I would indict Jorge’s hitting from the right side on that smallest of sample sizes. He hardly had a chance and as a switchhitter getting in a groove from both sides of the plate takes time. They had Jones to hit lefties. Case closed.

  66. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 16th, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    “I think this tells us that the FO doesn’t have faith in him either, when you add everything you start to have a clear picture of the motives that compelled them to move the Jesus.”

    Luis, I love you like crazy. But I’m not understanding where you’re going with this. How many times did I and others say that the reason that they traded for Pineda and got Kuroda was because they were putting AJ on the trading block and they weren’t sure what they were going to get from Hughes???? That’s all we’ve been saying since the trade! Now that they get Pettitte in a total surprise move, you think it says the front office doesn’t have faith in him? If they had faith in him, there would have been no need for Garcia, Kuroda, and Pineda!! Getting Pettitte has nothing to do with lack of faith in Hughes!

    You absolutely do not turn down the chance of bringing back the person who holds the record for most wins in the postseason in the history of MLB!

    What’s become clearer to me than ever – and it wasn’t real clear when the trade was made – is that they had no intention of keeping Jesus, no matter what. That is now my unequivocal opinion. They decided he wasn’t going to be their catcher and they decided they weren’t giving up a permanent DH spot for him. I would say they clearly made the organization decision that DH would continue to be a revolving door position. Notice they did not go after Fielder nor any formadible bats. They went with players with whom they are comfortable.

    I’m interested in knowing what you think are the clear motives that compelled them to move Jesus and what Pettitte could possibly have to do with it?

    I think J Al has come around to the POV, based on everything he has put together, that the Yanks had no intention of keeping Montero, no matter what. I think he has it right. The signs were all there. It’s perfectly fine to think their decision was asinine, but it’s crazy to beat your head against the wall trying to find reasons for what they did other than, to me and others I’d say, the obvious that they had decided there was no place for him in the org.

    JMO but one I find hard to poke holes into.

  67. RMS March 16th, 2012 at 11:34 pm

    I wonder if Jorge is having second thoughts about his retirement right now with his other buddies all back in the fold.

    He raked from the left side at the end of last year and in the playoffs, how great would it be if he signed a similar deal to Andy’s and came back for a final ring in 2012.
    ====================================================
    Yankees were not going to sign Posada.

  68. stuckey March 16th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    YF,

    I certain there are some of you.

    Many?

    To whom in addition to yourself are you referring?

    And given your firsthand experience, I’m genuinely curious…

    Why do you think Monteo got his reputation, if in your experience it was unwarranted?

  69. m March 16th, 2012 at 11:35 pm

    The Hoff is in the Lakers radio booth. Kobe went up for a dunk that brought the house down. Hasselhoff said, “He can still that?”. The broadcaster told him that Kobe went to Germany for a procedure.

    Hoping that Alex can play just as well. Not sure why the procedure works, but it seems to have tremens results.

  70. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    Comparing Martin who had had a cup of coffee here to Thurman is just Cashman irresponsibly blabbering. Whatever Cashman meant by it, it was a really really silly comparison, a diss to Posada and totally disrespected Thurman’s legacy.

  71. MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    It’s entirely possible the Yankees are having 2nd thoughts about Jorge after watching Ibanez this spring.

    If Jorge called the Yankees and offered a deal similar to Andy’s I have the feeling the Yankees would have interest.

    It’s a long shot, obviously, but not out of the range of possibilities considering how poorly Ibanez is swinging the bat this spring.

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:39 pm

    Whether you care to admit it or not, Pineda was necessary. Hughes, Garcia, Warren, Marshall, Phelps, Stoneburner, Betances and Banuelos were all hurt last year and missed rather considerable time. NYY got lucky when they planted those magic beans and Garcia and Colon sprouted instead of a beanstalk. You want to gamble on that 2 years in a row?
    ///

    Betances and Banuelos had blisters and were out for five minutes. They weren’t “hurt.” Neither was ready, any way, to be in the rotation for the full season. Nova had the forearm strain, but he was reportedly fine this offseason and has shown no ill effects in ST so far, so I assume he’s healthy. They signed Kuroda for insurance – that would have given them CC, Kuroda, Nova, Garcia and if Hughes had not been fully healthy, they had Phelps/Warren/Mitchell to turn to in the minors, and let’s not forget to departed Noesi, who could have been stretched out to fill a fifth starter role. There’s nothing wrong with that staff, not a thing. Pineda looks very good in his first couple of outings, and I like his arm a lot. But the Yankees, if they weren’t satisfied, could have done something else to acquire a starter, especially since Manny and Dellin are knocking on the door for next season. Betances is an elite arm, and so is Manny. They got surplus, not “need”. Not for Montero. No way can they sell that. Not to me.

  73. Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:40 pm

    “As for calling him Russell Munson, that’s a dig at Cashman more than Martin. I don’t like Cashman any more, so I have no remorse about that, LOL.”

    If Cashman ever read this blog, he probably doesn’t like you either.

  74. m March 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    I think they got Pineda for the future. They know they want to resign Cano and Granderdon, leaving very little money to field a full team if they signed Hamels or Cain.

  75. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Stuckey, quite a few people have seen Montero play. They can speak for themselves. “Genuinely curious” as opposed to your usual disingenuous curiousity :?:

  76. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 16th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    I wouldn’t have minded having Jorge back on the bench. I think he could still swing that bat. The question is whether Jorge would have started making noise about getting into games as a position player, and that could end up being disruptive, especially if Girardi had no intention of putting him in games that way. Chavez’s defense is clearly superior to Jorge’s and it looks like Chavy might be getting some turns at 1st and 3rd. And defense is critical at both 1st and 3rd, IMO.

    If he offered them a deal where he said he would be totally content to sit on the bench and DH when they felt they needed him to, that would be a different story. Will he do that? It would be a real hoot if he did. I would LOVE to have the core four back together. Imagine what a great storyline that would make, not to mention the total power there!

  77. MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    I don’t necessarily think Pineda was necessary, I just think the Yankees decided Montero didn’t have a place on the team and thought Pineda gave them long term upside in the rotation.

    That was their decision to make, it will either be right or wrong long term. If it’s wrong it won’t be the worst baseball trade ever made considering the Babe, Frank Robinson and Lou Brock were each traded for what turned out to be almost nothing.

  78. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:38 pm
    It’s entirely possible the Yankees are having 2nd thoughts about Jorge after watching Ibanez this spring.

    If Jorge called the Yankees and offered a deal similar to Andy’s I have the feeling the Yankees would have interest.
    ////

    They’d have to call him. Him call them? Maybe when hell freezes over. He wasn’t happy with how they “handled” him.

  79. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 16th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    “I think they got Pineda for the future.”

    Absolutely agree.

  80. Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

    “They got surplus, not “need”. Not for Montero. No way can they sell that. Not to me.”

    Yeah, we heard you the first thousand times.

  81. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:40 pm
    “As for calling him Russell Munson, that’s a dig at Cashman more than Martin. I don’t like Cashman any more, so I have no remorse about that, LOL.”

    If Cashman ever read this blog, he probably doesn’t like you either.
    ///

    Probably not. Cashman is actually a very pleasant fellow. He’s very affable on the elevator at the Stadium and accessible to chat with at Trenton. Unfortunately, his judgment is suspect.

  82. Bret The Hitman March 16th, 2012 at 11:46 pm

    I predict Phil Hughes will be traded to the Padres.

    The Padres wanted AJ Burnett and supposedly AJ blocked a trade. How can a team desperately seeking AJ Burnett on the one hand not be interested in Phil Hughes on the other.

    The Padres have Chase Headley. I’ve talked about him before here but he makes sense because he can play 3b, lf, rf or 1b. He’s versatile in the field, a switch hitter, a good baserunner and a clear upgrade over Raul Ibanez. He would solve DH and be able to back up 3rd through 2014. He fits with the budget and his versatility works with a DH rotation.

    Hughes for Headley is fair deal IMHO.

  83. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Of course they got Pineda for the future. He is a work in progress.

    Jorge was willing to DH; they didn’t want him back.

  84. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:43 pm
    “They got surplus, not “need”. Not for Montero. No way can they sell that. Not to me.”

    Yeah, we heard you the first thousand times.
    ///

    Except I’m responding to something directed at me in here, and not just waxing out of context about how much I hate the trade. Don’t get it twisted, now :D, and don’t listen in if you can’t bear to hear the “M” word.

  85. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Luis, are you watching Hughes? He looked really good. Save Phil Hughes!

  86. stuckey March 16th, 2012 at 11:48 pm

    YF,

    I’VE seen Montero play. I wasn’t talking about seeing a few games or innings.

    I was referring to a significant body of observation, over man games, months, years.

    Sorry if I was unclear. If you don’t know of anyone else that fits that criteria, it’s cool.

    But I take you at your word that you have. And I AM genuinely asking.

    I have NO idea if Montero can catch or not. I have no better idea than he can’t than he can. Because I haven’t seen him enough with my own eyes.

    So I am REALLY interested in someone with firsthand experience and a contrary opinion to the consensus speculate on why the consensus exists, because as should be obvious from my participation here, group dynamics interest me.

  87. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:49 pm

    I’m interested in knowing what you think are the clear motives that compelled them to move Jesus and what Pettitte could possibly have to do with it?

    ====================================

    Trisha,

    I’m not disputing that Montero was going to be traded, the reason….that he could not catch in their eyes and they saw a mayor weakness in their pitching rotation…They addressed that by trading for Pineda and signing Kuroda.

    Of course Pettite’s signing has nothing to do with Montero, it has to do with their lack of faith in what Hughes could bring to the table, otherwise you don’t sign an almost 40 years old pitcher that has been out of the game for 17 months….Yes, he is the embodiment of Big Game Pitcher and i’m thrilled that he is going to play…But at this point he is as much a question mark as Hughes is. What i am seeing is a trend of not trusting what you have ( very Oscar Wilde style: everything from the outside is better ).

    For the record, I think Pettite will pitch very well and it’s great to have him…But the risk is there.

  88. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    Stuckey, group dynamics for some research you are working on?

  89. RMS March 16th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    Still think Yankees should have signed Damon for DH instead of Ibanez.

  90. Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    “Except I’m responding to something directed at me in here, and not just waxing out of context about how much I hate the trade. Don’t get it twisted, now , and don’t listen in if you can’t bear to hear the “M” word.”

    You and rest of the Montero worshippers pollute this blog so much, a person can’t help but read your constant whinings.

  91. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:38 pm
    Comparing Martin who had had a cup of coffee here to Thurman is just Cashman irresponsibly blabbering. Whatever Cashman meant by it, it was a really really silly comparison, a diss to Posada and totally disrespected Thurman’s legacy.
    ///

    Damn straight it was a diss to Posada, who’d been getting hit in the head for the Yankees for 16 years and helping them win championships. That idiot slobbering over a guy who’s been here 10 minutes, while he just ripped the rug out from under Posada without any fanfare, with total disrespect, and even told the media “He’s the DH, unless he plays himself off it” – pulled that crap on national televlsion to embarrass him, etc. And he’s waxing poetic about a guy who is never going to put together multiple .300 seasons.

    But Thurman’s wife compared Posada to Munson (personality wise, they have a lot in common), said Jorge was the reason she was able to watch the game again, because of his passion and commitment. Screw Cashman.

  92. Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    “Unfortunately, his judgment is suspect.”

    The only problem for you is that his boss doesn’t agree with you.

  93. yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:53 pm

    Luis, love the Oscar Wilde reference! :)

  94. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    You and rest of the Montero worshippers pollute this blog so much, a person can’t help but read your constant whinings.
    //

    Well, you rude little SOB, you’re just going to have to grow up and realize we all have opinions, and as Yankee fans, we have strong ones. If you can’t handle the diversity, go live in a Third World country, where they tell you how the hell to think and express yourself, and how often you can say something….but whatever you do, don’t address me, until you learn some kind of internet etiquette.

  95. MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    if Hughes continues to throw like he has this spring and get results similar to his last two outings he isn’t going anywhere.

    Kuroda is going to be a one year pickup, in all likelihood, and you never know if Andy will want another year after this one.

    Prospects are just prospects, none of them are at the level of a Hughes (yet) and when they do, the Yankees will make decisions, now is not the right time, not until Andy has gone through a full spring training and is ready to make big league starts, something that is going to be at least the end of April since he isn’t reporting until next week, almost a month after the regular reporting date for pitchers and catchers.

    The Yankees are in an enviable position of having too many major league quality starters and depth in the minors, they will be able to deal from strength and help the team over the next few months.

  96. Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    So Cashman goes from being an affable guy to an some slobbering idiot in ten minutes.

  97. Crawdaddy March 16th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    “Well, you rude little SOB, you’re just going to have to grow up and realize we all have opinions, and as Yankee fans, we have strong ones. If you can’t handle the diversity, go live in a Third World country, where they tell you how the hell to think and express yourself, and how often you can say something….but whatever you do, don’t address me, until you learn some kind of internet etiquette.”

    Listen you piece of self-serving POS, don’t ever tell me what to do.

  98. Bret The Hitman March 16th, 2012 at 11:57 pm

    CC Sabathia
    Michael Pineda
    Ivan Nova
    Andy Pettitte
    Hiroki Kuroda (full no-trade clause)

    Where exactly is Phil Hughes going?

  99. J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    RMS March 16th, 2012 at 11:51 pm
    Still think Yankees should have signed Damon for DH instead of Ibanez.
    ////

    Someone here speculated that Damon would have been tough to cut in the middle of the season, if it came to that, because of his tenure here and his role in 2009. I think that’s a good guess on that, plus I don’t think they care for Damon’s err…confidence.

  100. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 16th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

    luis, you might be on to something, but I just somehow don’t think the Yankees turn down an Andy Pettitte offer to return. Don’t forget, he’s not necessarily going to be here for a long time. Hughes potentially is. And absolutely he’s a question mark. But they’re sure willing to check it out. If Andy gets back into any kind of shape, I think you can start ordering your 2012 WS souvenirs now!

    :)

    This is mindblowing stuff.

    You know, there is some degree of risk with every player, some more than others maybe. But that’s what makes the game so much fun to watch and follow! The exhiliration of seeing it unfold, the adventure involved in not knowing exactly what you’re going to get, but the faith that you will definitely get something worthwhile.

    Back in the mid to late 90s, regular season baseball bored me. I was so used to seeing the Yankees take care of business, that I just twiddled my thumbs waiting for the postseason. It used to infuriate a certain Mets fan who posted on the NY Times Yankee forum that I would say that the regular season was just postseason BP for the Yanks. :) But it basically was.

    Now, even though I totally believe in the outcome, I enjoy watching the competition. It doesn’t get old. The script isn’t etched in stone. But it’s great watching the guys pick each other up, waiting to see who is going to be the hero du jour. I love it this way.

  101. luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Luis, are you watching Hughes? He looked really good. Save Phil Hughes!

    ========================

    Still in the 2nd inning….I want him to pitch too, but it looks like he either is going to be traded or end up in the BP :( I wanted them to give him a fair chance before pulling the plug, but it seems that is not in the cards. :(

  102. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    RMS – I wanted Damon also.

  103. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:00 am

    YF,

    Nope. Personal interest.

    I do wonder if the internet scouts/”analysts” are prone to just mimic the consensus and indirectly pass it off as their own observation.

    Long before he was traded (and on record here) I openly wondered exactly what the pundits were seeing that absolutely convinced them he couldn’t catch?

    In my limited experience I didn’t see someone who walked to the plate with the catching glove on the wrong hand.

    I’ve never expressed an opinion before or after the trade that he could not catch. Because I don’t have one.

    So you can question my sincerity if you like, but if I can’t ask someone with more experience than I to share their knowledge with me, then I’m not sure the point of this all.

  104. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:01 am

    If Phil Hughes continues to pitch the way he has, he’ll be a permanent part of the Yankees rotation. Feel free to cash that check at your local bank. And no, it won’t bounce.

  105. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Whose spot is he going to take in 2012?

    CC Sabathia
    Michael Pineda
    Ivan Nova
    Andy Pettitte
    Hiroki Kuroda (full no-trade clause)

  106. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Luis, I would hope it is premature to think that Hughes ends up in the BP or gets traded. He will give them pause; he is going to pitch very well.

  107. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Discourse, Luis.

    Discourse.

  108. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    Hughes is an interesting case. If he has turned a corner, then other teams will take a chance and pay him what he’s worth.

    I do realize that Hughes might not be with the Yankees long-term.

    But I do think they are going to get what they can out if him now. Which means no trade this year.

  109. MG March 17th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    I don’t like getting in the middle of the Montero dialog but the Yankees not only have a good defensive catcher as the manager they also have a great defensive catcher, Tony Pena, on the coaching staff and Butch Wynegar, who played many years behind the plate, in the minors.

    Do any of you really believe that these guys are going to be wrong about the catching skill of a prospect and fans are going to be right? I know the answer, but it’s far from the truth.

    Given the way Montero hit after his callup last year I would have kept him for another year, even if he only played 60-70 games, but it was the Yankees decision and they obviously thought getting Pineda was better for the team long term.

  110. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:05 am

    I don’t doubt he will pitch well. But whose spot is he going to take?

    CC Sabathia
    Michael Pineda
    Ivan Nova
    Andy Pettitte
    Hiroki Kuroda (full no-trade clause)

  111. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    No trade of Phil this year?

    Whose spot is he going to take?

    CC Sabathia
    Michael Pineda
    Ivan Nova
    Andy Pettitte
    Hiroki Kuroda (full no-trade clause)

  112. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:08 am

    MG March 16th, 2012 at 11:55 pm

    if Hughes continues to throw like he has this spring and get results similar to his last two outings he isn’t going anywhere.

    Kuroda is going to be a one year pickup, in all likelihood, and you never know if Andy will want another year after this one.

    Prospects are just prospects, none of them are at the level of a Hughes (yet) and when they do, the Yankees will make decisions, now is not the right time, not until Andy has gone through a full spring training and is ready to make big league starts, something that is going to be at least the end of April since he isn’t reporting until next week, almost a month after the regular reporting date for pitchers and catchers.

    The Yankees are in an enviable position of having too many major league quality starters and depth in the minors, they will be able to deal from strength and help the team over the next few months.

    ==============================

    By this time next season, you will have the B’s ready plus what remains of the Phelps, Warren and Mitchell Trio ( If a trade happens )….Hughes by then is history, first because he won’t have the innings for a second year in a row, and second because in the BP he won’t be able to work on his secondary pitches

  113. RMS March 17th, 2012 at 12:08 am

    Someone here speculated that Damon would have been tough to cut in the middle of the season, if it came to that, because of his tenure here and his role in 2009. I think that’s a good guess on that, plus I don’t think they care for Damon’s err…confidence.
    ——————————————————————————————————————
    The way Posada was treated, I don’t think Cashman would have any problem cutting Damon if necessary.
    As far as Damon’s “confidence,” he was a great fit in 2009. Good clubhouse guy, clutch hitter, hit some homers, could run. Only negative was his fielding.

  114. MG March 17th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    I’d be surprised if Andy makes more than 20 starts for the Yankees in the regular season, he is 40 years old, after all.

    If you figure CC and Kuroda each make their 33 starts that is 76 starts left for Nova, Pineda, and Hughes, about 25 each or 150 innings each. I see that as a logical way to deal with the situation if they so choose.

  115. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    Bret,

    If you think all three of the younger 4-5 candidates will pitch well, doesn’t it make sense to shop them all and see which brings back a relatively better return?

    Maybe Nova brings back more value than Hughes?

    Wouldn’t that be a a logical consideration?

  116. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    mel, I think they have too much invested in him to let him go elsewhere if he turns the corner. There’s something kind of creepy about giving up your former Number 1 prospect if he’s doing a fantastic job. Why would you want another team to benefit from his success? You wouldn’t.

    But that’s an issue for the future.

  117. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:10 am

    And zero starts for Phelps, Warren, Mitchell, Banuelos, Betances? And where is Phil Hughes going to be when Andy makes those 20 starts? Floating around somewhere?

  118. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:11 am

    The spot was his before Nova’s. He wasn’t pitching well because if his shoulder. He returned to form somewhat in the latter half of the season.

    And as we can see he looks good this spring.

    IMO (and I’m probably the only one) he’s one if the starting 5.

  119. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:12 am

    Stuckey, Sorry rewatching Hughes so can’t really watch and post. Montero is a work in progress but he can be average behind the plate and adds value through his special bat at that position. However, even if he never catches, I expect his bat at DH to be special and would have been worth keeping.

  120. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    Bret,

    If you think all three of the younger 4-5 candidates will pitch well, doesn’t it make sense to shop them all and see which brings back a relatively better return?

    Maybe Nova brings back more value than Hughes?

    Wouldn’t that be a a logical consideration?

    ********

    Are they going to trade 5 years of Nova so they can keep 2 years of Hughes with 2014 looming and all this budget talk?

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    luis March 16th, 2012 at 11:59 pm
    yankeefeminista March 16th, 2012 at 11:47 pm

    Luis, are you watching Hughes? He looked really good. Save Phil Hughes!

    ========================

    Still in the 2nd inning….I want him to pitch too, but it looks like he either is going to be traded or end up in the BP I wanted them to give him a fair chance before pulling the plug, but it seems that is not in the cards.
    ////

    You guys, I feel like we’ve been on a “save Hughes” crusade since 2006. It will be a hollow feeling if he’s traded, just when it looks like he was coming out of the valley straight into the midday sun as a Yankee. I want him to have that chance.

  122. Giuseppe Franco March 17th, 2012 at 12:13 am

    The Yanks are going to need at least 7-8 starters just to get through the season and Pettitte likely won’t even be ready until mid-May.

    It only took one swing yesterday to nearly take out Garcia.

    Any one of them could tweak a hammy or groin and miss time.

    Worry about who gets moved out of the rotation when Pettitte is ready to go. These things have a tendency to work themselves out.

  123. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Luis, I would hope it is premature to think that Hughes ends up in the BP or gets traded. He will give them pause; he is going to pitch very well.

    =================================

    I would hope so too….But please enlighten me of how you can keep Hughes in the rotation with Andy coming up? or How is he going to fair against a competition with pitchers that are stretched out and have been able to work on all his pitches?

  124. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    luis, I’m willing to bet you a carton of Ritter Sports Bars that the Yankees do not trade Phil Hughes if he’s doing a good job for them. They have a lot more invested in Hughes than they do Nova.

    Kuroda is a one-year rental. Next year he’s likely out of the picture. Maybe same with Andy. You know that saying you can never have enough pitching? I just don’t see them letting go of Hughes. And I don’t see Hughes wanting to be on any team other than the Yankees. Both parties have had far too much history with the other to want to let go – unless he can’t pitch anymore. Then they’d be out of choices.

  125. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    We need to start a “10 more wins” campaign for Andy. Get his teammates on board. :)

  126. MG March 17th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    Bret, they will loan out Hughes during those times and get David DeJesus on the Yankees on a lendlease program just to satisfy your 10,000 posts about trades involving him over the past few years.

    I said they could give each of the young guys 25 starts, to me that is a workable solution.

    As for the prospects, none of them is ready (maybe Phelps) so who cares?

  127. RMS March 17th, 2012 at 12:14 am

    CC Sabathia
    Michael Pineda
    Ivan Nova
    Andy Pettitte
    Hiroki Kuroda (full no-trade clause)

    ————————————————————————————
    You don’t know when Andy will be ready. What if a starter gets hurt?

  128. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    yf,

    No problem. Don’t let me keep you from the game. But when you do have some time I’d be happy to hear what is it specifically about Montero’s D you think the pundits are misjudging or too prematurely judging?

  129. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:15 am

    “Do any of you really believe that these guys are going to be wrong about the catching skill of a prospect and fans are going to be right?”
    ____
    Who said they all agreed? & FTR, Wynegar was gung ho that Montero would catch.

  130. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:17 am

    mel, I don’t think you’re the only one who thinks Hughes will crack the rotation. Far from it!

    ******

    “Worry about who gets moved out of the rotation when Pettitte is ready to go. These things have a tendency to work themselves out.”

    GF – that’s like telling some posters to stop breathing!

    :D

  131. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    What if a starter gets hurt but the Yankees feel comfortable with promoting one of the AAA arms in light of their performance this spring? What if a GM offers the Yankees something valuable for 2 years of Phil Hughes? What if they decide to keep Garcia as the long man in the pen as a backup plan?

  132. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:18 am

    Are they going to trade 5 years of Nova so they can keep 2 years of Hughes with 2014 looming and all this budget talk?
    ///

    We go with the Five while Andy gets himself into playing shape and Garcia’s in the pen. Take it from there. Someone could go down. It happens.

    I don’t want Hughes or Nova moved.

  133. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:20 am

    I’ll puke it Girardi ever decides to go with a 6-man rotation again. So will CC, I believe. And Andy. Neither of them work well on long rest.

  134. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:20 am

    “Are they going to trade 5 years of Nova so they can keep 2 years of Hughes with 2014 looming and all this budget talk?”

    But the 5/2 equation is EXACTLY why Nova could potentially have more value, given we all anticipate RF is going to be need heading into 2014.

    Right?

    I’m not advocating trading one over the other. I’m simply suggesting it makes to compare what each could bring back in return and make an informed judgment from there.

    Doesn’t it make sense to simply make an more informed choice?

  135. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:21 am

    m, I don’t think you are in the minority regarding wanting Phil as the #5.

  136. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:22 am

    Well I think I’ll make good use of my time and go and watch some telly. I called the Yanks and offered them my take on things and they told me they weren’t interested.

    Based on that, I decided to let them work things out.

    Night all.

    :)

  137. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:23 am

    RMS March 17th, 2012 at 12:08 am
    Someone here speculated that Damon would have been tough to cut in the middle of the season, if it came to that, because of his tenure here and his role in 2009. I think that’s a good guess on that, plus I don’t think they care for Damon’s err…confidence.
    ——————————————————————————————————————
    The way Posada was treated, I don’t think Cashman would have any problem cutting Damon if necessary.
    As far as Damon’s “confidence,” he was a great fit in 2009. Good clubhouse guy, clutch hitter, hit some homers, could run. Only negative was his fielding.
    ///

    I don’t disagree, but I don’t think they’re crazy about his self regard. They’re funny that way, it seems. They didn’t like Montero’s “confidence” either. They have, it seems, pigeon holed themselves on what a “Yankee” should be. I just hope Gary Sanchez doesn’t disappoint in this regard, or we’ll see another potential elite power bat bit the pinstriped dust again.

  138. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:23 am

    MG March 17th, 2012 at 12:09 am

    I’d be surprised if Andy makes more than 20 starts for the Yankees in the regular season, he is 40 years old, after all.

    If you figure CC and Kuroda each make their 33 starts that is 76 starts left for Nova, Pineda, and Hughes, about 25 each or 150 innings each. I see that as a logical way to deal with the situation if they so choose.

    =========================

    That is a smart way of handling the situation, let’s hope that they are reading this thread!! ;)

  139. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:23 am

    bite

  140. Giuseppe Franco March 17th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 17th, 2012 at 12:17 am

    mel, I don’t think you’re the only one who thinks Hughes will crack the rotation. Far from it!

    ******

    “Worry about who gets moved out of the rotation when Pettitte is ready to go. These things have a tendency to work themselves out.”

    GF – that’s like telling some posters to stop breathing!

    ———-

    Yeah, you’re right. Some people just love to speculate for the sake of speculating.

    If Pettitte is ready to go in mid-May – that’s two months away – quite a long time in this game and a lot can happen between now and then.

  141. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    Stuckey,

    If the Yankees have an opportunity to trade for a RF and can do it with Hughes or Nova, which is the more informed choice considering 2014 and the budget?

  142. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    Night Trish,

    I don’t want to take your bet, because that is a bet that i would be more than happy to lose, so if i win it would be bittersweet… ;)

  143. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:26 am

    Stuckey,

    And have you ruled out Melky Cabrera and Andre Ethier for RF?

    Would you trade Nova for a RF or keep Nova and sign one of those guys for money alone?

    Is Nova + Melky Cabrera more valuable than OF’er X plus $$?

  144. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:28 am

    JAP,

    Thank you for the info, i was answering some other posts, please accept my apologies and thank you again

  145. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:29 am

    luis, Montero is slow afoot and sometimes has trouble getting the ball out of his glove (he’s had that problem more throwing down to 3B when I’ve seen him, for some reason), and sometimes he doesn’t really seem to set up as much as generically receives the ball. But, I think his general athleticism is pretty under rated, as he’s painted as a klutz behind the plate and he is not remotely this. He has a very strong arm, as well. He’s got a big “five hole” because he’s so big and can’t get down very low, but I think he does alright getting his glove down there.

    My sense is, he’s hardly a disaster behind the plate, and he can improve. What’s your sense?

  146. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 12:30 am

    All Cashman did was compare Martin’s handling of the staff and control of the game. He wasn’t comparing the affection Munson’s team mates to Martin or his hitting. Only the way he played hard all of the time. As far as “dissing” Posada, that’s BS. Posada wasn’t even listed as a catcher, mainly because of the continuous concussions. They played Cervelli, because he passed the tests. cervelli isn’t a great power hitter, but, that little peckerhead hits with runners on base. that made Posada more valuable as a lefty DH. Montero had just started hitting half way through the season and is right handed…not what NY needed. i repeat….there was no “Posada diss”.

  147. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:31 am

    As for the prospects, none of them is ready (maybe Phelps) so who cares?

    ===========================

    Phelps is ready and can really pitch, Mitchell might be as well.

  148. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:32 am

    Bret,

    You don’t understand: Melky is not Girardi’s kind of player. As much as Montero isn’t, Melky isn’t. They are not bringing back Melky on Joe Girardi’s watch. Alex “begged” them to re-sign him and they weren’t interested.

  149. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 12:34 am

    Posada wasn’t hitting from either side when Girardi moved him to the bottom of the line-up. Posada took it personally and walked out on his team. He deserved to be reprimanded and was. He was wrong and he knew it.

  150. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:34 am

    WHy don’t you ask Posada? He’d have a different view, I think. He said so during his retirement presser. They dissed him, alright. No fancy talking from you is going to change what everybody with a brain witnessed all year and what the man himself said.

  151. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:34 am

    I think he’s better than a number 5.

    Even Cash said he’s a front of the rotation pitcher. But I fear he might have said that to hype him up. :(

  152. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:34 am

    Then Ethier. My point is, they have no need great enough that would require trading Nova. They can fill all their needs and keep Nova. So I don’t see Hughes taking Nova’s spot – not when Nova has 5 years of control – 2014 is near – and Hughes will require a free agent contract for 2014.

  153. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:36 am

    “If the Yankees have an opportunity to trade for a RF and can do it with Hughes or Nova, which is the more informed choice considering 2014 and the budget?”

    Bret, that would depend entirely the respective return for each player, which is my point.

    “And have you ruled out Melky Cabrera and Andre Ethier for RF?

    “Would you trade Nova for a RF or keep Nova and sign one of those guys for money alone?

    “Is Nova + Melky Cabrera more valuable than OF’er X plus $$?”

    Again, can’t answer those questions until I know what “X” is.

    I’m merely arguing that if 3 guys are locks for the rotation, and you’re motivated to move 1 of the other 3, why not see what you can get for each?

    You’re so intent on protecting one player and jettisoning the other, you’re rejecting what is simply gathering info.

    After that process, maybe Hughes IS the best option?

    But wha’s the harm in finding out?

  154. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 12:38 am

    Would you have felt the same if that player was Rodriguez or Swisher?

  155. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:40 am

    My sense is, he’s hardly a disaster behind the plate, and he can improve. What’s your sense?

    ===============================

    I saw him as 19 year old so a lot of things might have change since then but as far as i could tell, he had a gun for an arm, he wasn’t fast enough in the transfer of the ball but the arm made up for it, he was a little big for the position but was athletic enough to compensate for it with cat like reflexes, he was raw but he had soft hands and calling a game is a matter of time. On top of that he has the character that will enable him to do pretty much whatever he sets his sights to. I loved him the minute i saw him play

  156. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:41 am

    I am not strictly looking at player A vs. player B.

    I’m looking at their contract situation and the Yankees needs.

    And my conclusion is, there is no need great enough that would require trading 5 years of Nova. How much better would this OF acquired by trading Nova be than Ethier or Cabrera? If I’m trading 5 years of Nova, I would want to fill a long term need that I can’t fill with any other means but a trade. And since I can solve RF by giving a solid ballplayer money alone, why would I move Nova?

  157. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:42 am

    “He said so during his retirement presser. They dissed him, alright. No fancy talking from you is going to change what everybody with a brain witnessed all year and what the man himself said.”

    Yup, he said it during his retirement presser, which I’m going to grant him the respect of assuming he earnestly appreciated and participated in. He gave no indication during the event he secretly was resentful.

    In other words, he – he was was actually “dissed” – handled it with dignity and perspective, as opposed to those who do not know him who pretend to be indignant on his behalf.

  158. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    GB, I get what you are saying, and I don’t want to belabor this discussion, but I don’t agree. New guy comes on board and Posada who worships Thurman/picture in his locker/respects the legend/history has been pushed aside and you make a comparison between the new guy who has just arrived and Thurman Munson. Posada’s bat was more Thurman-like, as was his feistiness. And even if Posada hadn’t been the catcher of tenure, I still would have trouble with the comparison Cash made. Russell Martin and Thurman Munson? No diss to Martin, who is a gamer, but please.

  159. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:45 am

    Montero’s bat is valuable whatever position he plays. But obviously his value is greater if he can catch some. So, why prematurely give up on his catching? However, whether one thinks Montero can catch or not depends also on how highly one rates catcher defense and/or disregards the value of catcher offense. If you can get the catcher defense of Posada at his prime with a special bat, that certainly trumps catcher defense with a catcher average bat every time.

  160. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:45 am

    luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:40 am
    My sense is, he’s hardly a disaster behind the plate, and he can improve. What’s your sense?

    ===============================

    I saw him as 19 year old so a lot of things might have change since then but as far as i could tell, he had a gun for an arm, he wasn’t fast enough in the transfer of the ball but the arm made up for it, he was a little big for the position but was athletic enough to compensate for it with cat like reflexes, he was raw but he had soft hands and calling a game is a matter of time. On top of that he has the character that will enable him to do pretty much whatever he sets his sights to. I loved him the minute i saw him play
    ///

    luis, we know he’s got soft hands :D :(. This is pretty much my experience of him, also. Agree, he’s a special kid, and a nice kid, too.

  161. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    Unless Hughes wins 20+ games in each of the next 2 years, he’s not getting $10 mil a year or more. Pruf, your view of things involving Girardi, Cashman and Montero is so distorted, it borders lunacy.

  162. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:46 am

    It seems as if the Yankees bent over backwards with Posada until the drop in the lineup. Then Posada didn’t take that well (any other player would have been benches or worse). (posada admitted he was wrong)

    Now they may have treated him unkindly by telling him right off the bat that they weren’t bringing him back. But they were just being up front.

    Don’t see how they treated him badly by giving him the 4 years and then playing him for the 4 years. He also said that he didn’t hold anything against the Yankees (though he probably did).

  163. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:43 am
    GB, I get what you are saying, and I don’t want to belabor this discussion, but I don’t agree. New guy comes on board and Posada who worships Thurman/picture in his locker/respects the legend/history has been pushed aside and you make a comparison between the new guy who has just arrived and Thurman Munson. Posada’s bat was more Thurman-like, as was his feistiness. And even if Posada hadn’t been the catcher of tenure, I still would have trouble with the comparison Cash made. Russell Martin and Thurman Munson? No diss to Martin, who is a gamer, but please.
    ///

    This. Said it much better than I did.

  164. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:47 am

    Bret,

    You’re making this too complicated. There is a surplus of pitching, you find out what your options are.

    Your position that a certain player is untouchable to the point that his market value cannot be determined is simply illogically rigid.

  165. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:48 am

    Stuckey, why do you use the word “pretend” all the time in reference to people’s posts. It is really pejorative. And why are you assuming pretense; it is kind of presumptuous, isn’t it? You write these seemingly objective posts, but these occasional words such as “pretend” belie that objectivity. How do you know who is or isn’t “pretending?” It is a really strange interpretation. I try to take posters at face value. More interested in their posts, and don’t assume insincerity on their parts. What’s up with that?

  166. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:49 am

    Ok. I’ll make it simple. The need is RF. Ethier and Cabrera are free agents. I would keep Nova and sign one of them. To make room for Pettitte I would trade Hughes because I have a RF and don’t need to trade Nova for one.

  167. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:50 am

    “However, whether one thinks Montero can catch or not depends also on how highly one rates catcher defense and/or disregards the value of catcher offense.”

    Is the premise of this position that anyone who can put on the equipment and stop pitches from going to the backstop can man the position if he hits enough?

  168. luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:50 am

    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    GB, I get what you are saying, and I don’t want to belabor this discussion, but I don’t agree. New guy comes on board and Posada who worships Thurman/picture in his locker/respects the legend/history has been pushed aside and you make a comparison between the new guy who has just arrived and Thurman Munson. Posada’s bat was more Thurman-like, as was his feistiness. And even if Posada hadn’t been the catcher of tenure, I still would have trouble with the comparison Cash made. Russell Martin and Thurman Munson? No diss to Martin, who is a gamer, but please.

    ==================================

    To compare Martin to Munson is like comparing El Duque to Whitey Ford, or a nice beer to a Dom Perignon Rose 1989

  169. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    m, who was Cash pumping up as a front of rotation starter?

  170. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:53 am

    What are you trading Hughes for if it’s not a RF?

    You don’t trade him just for the sake of trading him. They’d send him to AAA or the pen instead of dumping him.

  171. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 12:54 am

    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:43 am
    GB, I get what you are saying, and I don’t want to belabor this discussion, but I don’t agree. New guy comes on board and Posada who worships Thurman/picture in his locker/respects the legend/history has been pushed aside and you make a comparison between the new guy who has just arrived and Thurman Munson. Posada’s bat was more Thurman-like, as was his feistiness. And even if Posada hadn’t been the catcher of tenure, I still would have trouble with the comparison Cash made. Russell Martin and Thurman Munson? No diss to Martin, who is a gamer, but please.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    Posada got his bell rung on foul tips too many times in the last 2 years, that one more in the wrong spot and he’s end up like Ali…punch drunk. his glove couldn’t get up fast enough to protect himself. That was one thing that he was always pretty good at…catching foul tips. How many times during those two years when he forgot the count, the outs, the signals? Too many times. Like all great players, that was something he couldn’t accept. What would embarrass him more, being a stumble bum or telling him he could catch any more other than extreme emergency. I would have hated to see him forgetting his own name.

  172. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 12:54 am

    Who’s dumping him?

    I’d fill a need that’s not as great as the greatest need which is RF.

  173. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:55 am

    On top of that, they wouldn’t let him catch 603. Now that was just petty of Girardi.

    You’re right about one thing, GB, I do not like Cashman and Girardi one bit. I dislike them with the same “lunacy” you reserve for bad writers. I do appreciate Girardi’s kindness to people in general, though, outside of players he doesn’t care for, and I don’t think he’s cruel, just blind when it comes to certain players. I very much admire that he risked his life to help a woman in distress on the highway at night after the 2009 clincher. That he footed it across the highway to get to her. That would be my dad, so I do know he’s got a big heart. But he treated Posada in a petty manner regarding 603, and the Posada stuff, with the lineup, Posada said it came from above. It was “ordered”, and the fact that it occurred TWICE on national television, is no coincidence. They knew how he’d react because he’s emotional.

    The emotion they rode by his “true” captaincy to success on the field they were now using against him. It was like poking a mouse with a stick – they knew he’d blow up, and that way, they could demonize him so all the fanboys would fall in line and say he put himself before the team and all of that other BS. They disrespected him, and that is an understatement. They were underhanded about it.

  174. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:56 am

    Luis, agree. I wouldn’t compare El Duque to Whitey, but El Duque has much more clout with me than a newby like Martin. Loved watching El Duque pitch, especially in the playoffs. Ice water in his veins, fire in his heart.

  175. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 12:56 am

    “Stuckey, why do you use the word “pretend” all the time in reference to people’s posts. It is really pejorative.”

    I don’t use it all the time and it is intended to be pejorative. I use it in particular circumstances for particular posters.

    “I try to take posters at face value. More interested in their posts, and don’t assume insincerity on their parts. What’s up with that?”

    Do you? Do you take the 11:55 pm post at face value?

    If you do, why are you seemingly more interested in critiquing me as opposed to hateful, pejorative rhetoric like that?

  176. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:56 am

    Hughes. :(

    Before he even threw his first pitch in a ST game.

    But it was in the context of “don’t under-estimate” Phil Hughes.

  177. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 12:57 am

    To compare Martin to Munson is like comparing El Duque to Whitey Ford, or a nice beer to a Dom Perignon Rose 1989
    ///

    :D

  178. m March 17th, 2012 at 12:58 am

    And what need is that? And who do you have in mind?

  179. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    What would embarrass him more, being a stumble bum or telling him he could catch any more other than extreme emergency. I would have hated to see him forgetting his own name.
    ///

    It’s not that they didn’t want him to catch any more, it was the manner in which they handled him, talked about him. Anyone could see it was unfeeling and unappreciative of who he has been for this team.

  180. luis March 17th, 2012 at 1:00 am

    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:56 am

    Luis, agree. I wouldn’t compare El Duque to Whitey, but El Duque has much more clout with me than a newby like Martin. Loved watching El Duque pitch, especially in the playoffs. Ice water in his veins, fire in his heart.

    ===========================

    Me neither, but i didn’t want that my metaphor would be mistaken as dissing Martin, so i picked one of my favorite dynasty players.

  181. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    luis March 17th, 2012 at 12:50 am
    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 12:43 am

    GB, I get what you are saying, and I don’t want to belabor this discussion, but I don’t agree. New guy comes on board and Posada who worships Thurman/picture in his locker/respects the legend/history has been pushed aside and you make a comparison between the new guy who has just arrived and Thurman Munson. Posada’s bat was more Thurman-like, as was his feistiness. And even if Posada hadn’t been the catcher of tenure, I still would have trouble with the comparison Cash made. Russell Martin and Thurman Munson? No diss to Martin, who is a gamer, but please.

    ==================================

    To compare Martin to Munson is like comparing El Duque to Whitey Ford, or a nice beer to a Dom Perignon Rose 1989

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    That’s BS. The only comparison made was in his game handling….not what he meant to the organization and not the offense. Jim Sunberg, Bench, Fisk, Randy Hundley and Bob Boone were better defensive catchers than Munson over the last 5 years. Other than Bench and Fisk, no catcher could match his bat. It’s not like comparing Munson to Jake Gibbs.

  182. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    “The need is RF. Ethier and Cabrera are free agents. I would keep Nova and sign one of them. ”

    Signing one of them might not be an option, for one of many various reason.

    “To make room for Pettitte I would trade Hughes because I have a RF and don’t need to trade Nova for one.”

    But the point I’m making is you’re rejecting the simple idea of just evaluating the market.

    You have a personal preference, which is your right. But like you’re very odd “absolutist” position of earlier this evening, you just seem to have a blind spot about even considering certain options.

    Hell, I say Cano and Banuelos aren’t untouchable for the right price. What’s the big deal?

  183. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:01 am

    GB, I am not saying Jorge should have continued to catch; he was like a horse you don’t want to put down, but eventually you have to. But he was a warrior and you have to respect him. I think that remark by Cash disrespected Posada, and disrespected Thurman. (Not that I am not saying that was Cash’s intention.)

  184. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 1:04 am

    I’ve said it. I’d trade Hughes for Chase Headley and welcome back Andy and ride the best AAA rotation in minor league baseball if I need a callup.

    I don’t care if Nova brings back more in return. The biggest need is RF and I can sign Melky or Ethier (or keep Swish if I get too desperate) to fill that need. Are you asking me to trade Nova for Chase Headley.

    Look if you wanted me to paint a scenario where the Yankees would be better off keeping Hughes it’d be hard for me to do because there’s no room in the rotation for him and he’s worth more as a trade chip than he is to the Yankees as a reliever or a AAA arm. He loses value if he’s not a starter. He has to be a starter somewhere. And there is no room for him in the rotation unless you knock Nova or someone gets injured. If someone gets injured, the Yankees have incredible depth in AAA.

  185. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:06 am

    Yeah, Girardi and Cashman hated Posada so much that they considered him a HOF catcher. such disrespect. They had to worry about winning games and Posada’s health. You’d make a piss poor combat commander, where anybody’s health came secondary to common sense. You’re the type that would get shot in the back of the head by the “enemy”.

  186. Rich in NJ March 17th, 2012 at 1:06 am

    “I think that remark by Cash disrespected Posada, and disrespected Thurman. (Not that I am not saying that was Cash’s intention.)”

    Yup, if anyone is like Thurm, it is Posada. Actually, he was better than Munson offense/defense, which is the way to view any player.

  187. Bret The Hitman March 17th, 2012 at 1:06 am

    This is not rocket science nor an agenda nor an absolutist position. Before this Pettitte thing, I might have been able to envision a scenario that had Hughes staying…but with Pettitte everything changes.

  188. Yankee Trader March 17th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    Geez, have I been out of the loop today. Went out to see a play, get home watch the end of the Xavier, Notre Dame game, come on the blog and WOW-Andy is coming back. I am excited to see one of the top Yankee lefties of all time back in the fold.

    With that I’m going to go to sleep, if I can!!

  189. luis March 17th, 2012 at 1:07 am

    That’s BS. The only comparison made was in his game handling….not what he meant to the organization and not the offense. Jim Sunberg, Bench, Fisk, Randy Hundley and Bob Boone were better defensive catchers than Munson over the last 5 years. Other than Bench and Fisk, no catcher could match his bat. It’s not like comparing Munson to Jake Gibbs.

    ==========================

    GB,

    Maybe he was referring to his game handling only, but in any case using Munson as an example was a poor choice of words….the man is an institution by himself. JMHO

  190. m March 17th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    That’s right. I forgot you said that.

    I’m all for keeping Hughes.

    That’s an interesting poll question. If had to trade Hughes or Nova who do trade? More people would pick Nova, I’m sure. But I usually swim the opposite way. :)

  191. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 1:09 am

    “Before this Pettitte thing, I might have been able to envision a scenario that had Hughes staying…but with Pettitte everything changes.”

    But others can’t envision a scenario that has Hughes leaving.

    What makes you right and them wrong?

  192. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:06 am
    Yeah, Girardi and Cashman hated Posada so much that they considered him a HOF catcher. such disrespect. They had to worry about winning games and Posada’s health.
    ///

    His health? What happened to that concern when he had to “emergency” catch? Suddenly, is health wasn’t so important. A crock.

  193. luis March 17th, 2012 at 1:12 am

    m March 17th, 2012 at 1:08 am

    That’s right. I forgot you said that.

    I’m all for keeping Hughes.

    That’s an interesting poll question. If had to trade Hughes or Nova who do trade? More people would pick Nova, I’m sure. But I usually swim the opposite way. :)

    ============================================

    I would like to keep both…But if i have to choose….I’ll trade Hughes before i trade Nova.

  194. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    *his health.

    I gotta say, you are making me sick. They were political animals with him and you’re trying to pass them off as humanitarians that were “concerned for his health.”

    I’m done with this subject. You’re full of it.

  195. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:13 am

    YF,

    If Martin had hit .300 during the season and clocked a pair of game winners in the PS, would you still feel like you do? The yanks ran Posada out there even when he wasn’t hitting squat, from either side. If he was so disrepected, how did he get any game time in the PS, knowing he wasn’t going to be on the team in 2012? When Posada was put at the bottom while not hitting, he pouted and walked out on the team. Only his name kept him from being fined and benched or released.

  196. Rich in NJ March 17th, 2012 at 1:15 am

    “I would like to keep both…But if i have to choose….I’ll trade Hughes before i trade Nova.”

    I think that’s the wrong way to look at it, luis. You only make a trade if you are getting a maximum return, and it us virtually inconceivable that you can get that for Hughes.

  197. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 1:17 am

    Rich in NJ March 17th, 2012 at 1:06 am
    “I think that remark by Cash disrespected Posada, and disrespected Thurman. (Not that I am not saying that was Cash’s intention.)”

    Yup, if anyone is like Thurm, it is Posada. Actually, he was better than Munson offense/defense, which is the way to view any player
    ///

    Posada is the most disrespected of Yankee greats I think I’ve ever witnessed. The comments in this place the last year were indigestible. No small wonder, it’s the same people who couldn’t care less about Montero leaving (and this is no Lohud Fallacy).

  198. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:19 am

    Is the premise of this position that anyone who can put on the equipment and stop pitches from going to the backstop can man the position if he hits enough?
    _____
    This is far too simplistic. But I have to get up at 7:30AM, so I will leave it to someone else to explain the hot debates about catcher defense vs. catcher offense.

  199. luis March 17th, 2012 at 1:19 am

    Rich in NJ March 17th, 2012 at 1:15 am

    “I would like to keep both…But if i have to choose….I’ll trade Hughes before i trade Nova.”

    I think that’s the wrong way to look at it, luis. You only make a trade if you are getting a maximum return, and it us virtually inconceivable that you can get that for Hughes.

    ==================

    Good point….Just curious what do you think the Yankees should get from a Nova trade?…Because i think he is and will be very valuable for the Yankees, so i think in order to trade him you should get a king ransom in return.

  200. Tar March 17th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    “Does it complicate things? Yeah it does. But Andy Pettitte’s worth complicating things for.”

    I am so Happy Andy is back.

    YF

    I loved Thurman, he has always been my favorite Yankee. I looked at Cashman’s comments as more of a compliment to Martin’s toughness than a diss to Jorge. But after reading your post at 12:43 I realize what a poorly thought out statement it was.

    And to be honest the more I think about it and some of his stupid statements over the last couple of years, I do wonder about his intent, or at least his understanding of what some of these players mean to us Yankee fans. Anyway as usual good post.

    Did I say how happy I was that Andy is back. :D

    Good Night Yankee fans.

  201. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    They gambled on half of a game. Don’t tell me you didn’t hold your breath on the foul tips that hit him in the mask that day. Girardi and Cashman told him in the winter what their plans were and why. he could have retired or asked for his release. The only disrepect is in your mind.

  202. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 1:20 am

    When Posada was put at the bottom while not hitting, he pouted and walked out on the team. Only his name kept him from being fined and benched or released.
    ////

    His name??? He meant more to the Yankees than that little Theo wannabe GM. They deliberately embarrassed him before a national audience in a game against Boston. You thought that was a coincidence? No one can be that stupid.

  203. m March 17th, 2012 at 1:21 am

    I’m sorry. I meant to say more people would trade Hughes.

    But Rich is right Hughes by himself won’t get you anything great. And he won’t being an upgrade to the team if he’s returned to form. Hughes being healthy AND good is a tremendous upgrade in and if itself.

    Other teams and fan bases must see Pettitte, Joba, and AArdsma looming and just want to puke.

  204. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 1:22 am

    GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:20 am
    They gambled on half of a game. Don’t tell me you didn’t hold your breath on the foul tips that hit him in the mask that day.
    ////

    Sure, I did, but I actually DO care about his health! They gambled with his health on a half game, correction: they never gave a damn about his health, or they wouldn’t have “gambled” on a half game.

  205. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 1:24 am

    This is far too simplistic. But I have to get up at 7:30AM, so I will leave it to someone else to explain the hot debates about catcher defense vs. catcher offense.

    _______________________

    I was hoping for your perspective, since you’ve seen Montero first hand so much.

    No matter, at this point I’m more interested why you choose to question my use of one word when the last hour plus has turned into a one-way hate-fest.

    Why the double standard is a question you can answer next time you “see” me.

  206. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:24 am

    Posada was more disrespected on this blog than he ever was by the organization. And the stupidity of Girardi hating catchers that could hit is plain asinine. What it shows is just how little your grasp on reality really is.

  207. m March 17th, 2012 at 1:26 am

    Ugh. Whatever Hughes brings back won’t be an upgrade to the team if Hughes pitches well.

  208. Rich in NJ March 17th, 2012 at 1:26 am

    luis

    A young corner OFer or 3B/SS who can put up at least an .800 or so OPS. Since Pettitte is probably only here for one year, if you cannot get that, I wouldn’t trade him no matter what.

  209. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:27 am

    GB, feel what? That I still dislike the comparison? Yes.

    As for running Po out there; he was adjusting to DH’ing and you know how hard that can be for a player. So, I don’t think they were doing him a favor, as much as they were expecting him to produce, which he started doing in the second half. I didn’t say overall that they disrespected him (that is whole other discussion), but that the comparison showed disrespect. They could have handle things better than they did though. So could have Posada, but I wasn’t surprised by his reaction. When someone is passionate and talks from the heart, you are going to get both the good and the bad. But the discussion was about the comparison to Munson which I didn’t like then and still don’t like. As for Martin, I hope he can stay on the field and that he has a very successful year. We need that production from the bottom of the order.

  210. Rich in NJ March 17th, 2012 at 1:27 am

    GN all.

  211. J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2012 at 1:28 am

    You’re the type that would get shot in the back of the head by the “enemy”.
    ///

    I didn’t see this. No, I’d have my buddies’ backs, but you’d be stabbing yours in the back, that’s why you’re AOK with the Yankees doing it.

  212. m March 17th, 2012 at 1:33 am

    Who’s seen the Kony 2012 video? I thought the documentarian was strange when I saw it.

    He’s flipped out and was sent to the hospital. He was lucky that he wasn’t arrested. There were reports if lewd behavior.

  213. Crawdaddy March 17th, 2012 at 1:33 am

    “You’re the type that would get shot in the back of the head by the “enemy”.”

    Actually, he’s the type that would get shot by his own men.

  214. luis March 17th, 2012 at 1:33 am

    Good night Rich and Thank you….I still think that what you suggest is not enough for Nova, but you are right that the Yankees might get more from trading him than Hughes.

  215. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:34 am

    I didn’t see this. No, I’d have my buddies’ backs, but you’d be stabbing yours in the back, that’s why you’re AOK with the Yankees doing it.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    You wouldn’t have any buddies or others left. You’re too emotional and unable to think beyond your own wants.

    35 years and only 2 of the team mates were lost out of thousands over the years. there are times for emotions and time for common sense. You don’t seem to understand which is which.

  216. Crawdaddy March 17th, 2012 at 1:35 am

    SJ’s nephew, Tony Sanchez was great on XM Radio with Ferrin, Goldstein and Goldman. You should be proud of this young man.

  217. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:37 am

    “Did I say how happy I was that Andy is back.

    Good Night Yankee fans.”

    Tar, thanks. I am happy too. :) Good night. GN, Rich.

  218. Crawdaddy March 17th, 2012 at 1:37 am

    Also, Tony Sanchez made mention of his uncle about which restaurant to eat at in Indianapolis.

  219. luis March 17th, 2012 at 1:40 am

    It’s late, good posts and good discussions, Good night all

  220. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:46 am

    Stuckey, I just see you use that word a lot and noticed it again. And was genuinely asking (to use your phrase) how you determine what is and isn’t sincere. I didn’t mean to offend you if I even did.

    As for answering you about Montero, it is a long complex answer because it doesn’t relate to only his D, as I see it, average but how that D relates to the bigger picture, re: why certain “pundits” might evaluate his D differently than others would depending on how much they value catcher run prevention etc. Too late for that kind of discussion from my end.

  221. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:46 am

    Buenas Noches, Luis!

  222. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:50 am

    GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 1:24 am
    Posada was more disrespected on this blog than he ever was by the organization.
    _____
    I definitely agree about the blog’s dissing of Po. I was a lurker before I became a poster here but even after I joined he was routinely bashed.

    Anyway, thrilled about Andy and Hughes’ outing. Good Night!

  223. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 1:51 am

    ‘Night, Pruf, m, Stuckey, et al.

  224. Ghostwriter March 17th, 2012 at 1:52 am

    Wow, this is really terrific news that Andy is back! I don’t know how they are going to make it work with all of these pitchers, but I’m really ecited about it!

  225. Cashmoney March 17th, 2012 at 1:54 am

    Just got back… wow… Andy is back however ephemeral it might be… Andy is a grizzled veteran who has a knack of showing up in big game …the man knows how to pitcher … the older he got the better he became as a ‘pitcher’.

    I did not want Posada back because I thought the Yanks were going for better offensive options at dh but we got an older and probably worse Ibanez instead.. so stay tuned on how that will work out. Cmoney’s comment aside, I thought Posada was well paid and well treated during his tenure with the Yanks, that’s pretty much that.

    GN all.

  226. stuckey March 17th, 2012 at 1:54 am

    “Stuckey, I just see you use that word a lot and noticed it again. And was genuinely asking (to use your phrase) how you determine what is and isn’t sincere. I didn’t mean to offend you if I even did.”

    Yf, you did not. I’m unoffendable by words on a forum. Which partially answers your question.

    I question the sincerity of anyone who portray themselves as indignant on the behalf of others, particularly when the “others” aren’t even indignant on their own behalf.

    It’s hyperbole. It’s theater.

  227. Jerkface March 17th, 2012 at 1:56 am

    “You’re the type that would get shot in the back of the head by the “enemy”.”

    Actually, he’s the type that would get shot by his own men.

    I don’t know whats more rich, another instance of GB7 using the implied injury/death of a poster in a debate (his speciality as an idiot!) or the second idiot completely missing the point of the original stupid remark!

  228. Crawdaddy March 17th, 2012 at 1:59 am

    You should know about stupid remarks.

  229. Jerkface March 17th, 2012 at 2:00 am

    I know, I point them out quite often!

  230. Crawdaddy March 17th, 2012 at 2:00 am

    You make them often too.

  231. sammiejohnson March 17th, 2012 at 2:03 am

    Remember the good ol’ days when we all were just all Yankees fans?

  232. Cashmoney March 17th, 2012 at 2:05 am

    I question the sincerity of anyone who portray themselves as indignant on the behalf of others, particularly when the “others” aren’t even indignant on their own behalf.
    ————–
    If I call your mom a hoe and she happens to be a forgiving person who simply brushed it off, would you as a her son be indignant about it? I think it depends on your level of closeness and your attachment to the person who you think is besmirched.

  233. Jerkface March 17th, 2012 at 2:08 am

    You make them often too.

    You should have posted this first, instead of making another dumb comment that was easily countered! But ya dumb, son.

  234. Jerkface March 17th, 2012 at 2:09 am

    Have fun imagining the death of a poster you disagree with, well adjusted individual who is in no way a crazy idiot!

  235. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 3:11 am

    Nobody imagined the death of another poster, you clown. He is hardly well adjusted. Nobody that rants on the same subject daily.

  236. Jerkface March 17th, 2012 at 3:19 am

    Nobody imagined the death of another poster

    You specifically posited a situation where he would be killed. Interesting. It says a lot about how messed up you are that you would suggest that over a baseball argument. Then again, you are the one that suggested Derek Jeter should beat up Brett Gardner in the locker room because he ‘takes too long to steal a base’ (which wasn’t true).

    Anyone can see how weird and maladjusted that is.

  237. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 3:28 am

    . Then again, you are the one that suggested Derek Jeter should beat up Brett Gardner in the locker room because he ‘takes too long to steal a base’ (which wasn’t true).

    ————————————————————————————————————————

    whose ass did you pull that one out of? Yours or your little buddy’s. Keep dreaming stuff up, little man.

  238. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 3:31 am

    Girardi said the same thing this spring. He said that Gardner needs to be more aggressive at the plate and especially on the bases.

  239. David in Cal March 17th, 2012 at 3:31 am

    I disliked the Montero trade, because it’s based on a guess or judgment that he won’t be a decent catcher. But, the Yanks didn’t have to guess. They could have used Montero as dh/backup catcher and waited a year to actually find out how good a fielding catcher he could become.

    Now that Andy has signed, I dislike the trade even more. It will be hard for the team to get full value from their 7 SP. Ideally, the best 5 of them would be in the rotation, but CC obviously will start, no matter what. Apparently, the same is true of Kuroda. I think Pineda virtually has to start, in order to justify the trade. (That’s a bad reason, but I imagine that’s how it will go.) The Yanks can’t trade Andy, so he almost automatically becomes the 4th starter, provided he pitches OK. The Yanks might be able to trade Garcia, but he won’t bring much.

    The real problem is Nova and Hughes. They should both be starting every 5th day. They’re the future of the club. But, there’s only room for one of them in the rotation.

    IMHO the best solution would be to trade Garcia and use Andy as a 6th starter. That would keep Andy’s innings down and keep him fresh for the post-season. If Andy pitches like the old Andy, he could be the #2 or #3 starter in the post-season. We’ll see how they handle it.

  240. Jerkface March 17th, 2012 at 3:39 am

    whose ass did you pull that one out of? Yours or your little buddy’s. Keep dreaming stuff up, little man.

    Well considering what comes out of it, I assume the ass I pulled it out of is your mouth.

  241. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 3:50 am

    Produce the post where I said Jeter should beat him up in the locker room or shut up.

  242. jacksquat March 17th, 2012 at 4:19 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 16th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
    RMS March 16th, 2012 at 11:51 pm
    Still think Yankees should have signed Damon for DH instead of Ibanez.
    ////

    Someone here speculated that Damon would have been tough to cut in the middle of the season, if it came to that, because of his tenure here and his role in 2009. I think that’s a good guess on that, plus I don’t think they care for Damon’s err…confidence.

    I think that’s bull. I think they didn’t sign Damon out of spite, their “well if you don’t want to play here” (when he left trying to get more money) policy.

  243. jacksquat March 17th, 2012 at 4:22 am

    David in Cal March 17th, 2012 at 3:31 am
    The real problem is Nova and Hughes. They should both be starting every 5th day. They’re the future of the club. But, there’s only room for one of them in the rotation.

    Hughes is not the future of the club, those days have passed. Hughes has only one more year of control after this year, then he is a free agent, and the Yankees would have to pay market based on his performance, just like any free agent. Pineda and Nova are much more “the future of the club”.

  244. GreenBeret7 March 17th, 2012 at 4:51 am

    Hughes make less than 4 mil a year and he’s not 26 years old. He’s hardly washed up. Short of back to back 20 win seasons and a sub 3.50 ERA, he isn’t getting to $10 mil before his control is up.

  245. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 6:47 am

    “When life gives you lemons, squeeze the juice in your eyes.” – LoHud trolls

  246. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 7:05 am

    Happy St. Patrick’s Day for all who care ;)

  247. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 7:21 am

    So have the Yankees obligated themselves to getting Pettitte into the rotation? My only fear is that they have. Depth wise, I think this is a great move, but I hope they don’t force the issue. The five best starters should be in the rotation and that’s that, winning trumps politics.

    Will Pettitte really outperform guys like Nova, Kuroda, Pineda, Hughes, or even Garcia? Right now it’s a mystery.

  248. NYYanksFan March 17th, 2012 at 7:30 am

    “Posada is the most disrespected of Yankee greats I think I’ve ever witnessed.”

    More disrespected than A-Rod?

  249. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 7:37 am

    NYYanksFan March 17th, 2012 at 7:30 am
    “Posada is the most disrespected of Yankee greats I think I’ve ever witnessed.”

    More disrespected than A-Rod?
    —————

    +1

  250. Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 7:53 am

    does 5 good seasons really qualify arod as a ‘yankee great’? it can certainly be argued that the best of his career so far was played elsewhere…

  251. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Lohud Yankees Blog ? @LoHudYankees
    Reply
    RetweetedRetweet
    Delete
    FavoritedFavorite
    · Close Open Details Pat Venditte is up for the day in #Yankees camp. Always fun to watch. Keeps getting minor league results.

  252. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 8:00 am

    Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 7:53 am
    does 5 good seasons really qualify arod as a ‘yankee great’? it can certainly be argued that the best of his career so far was played elsewhere…
    ——————

    Is this a joke? He’s played on the Yankees longer than any other team and he’s one of the greatest hitters in the sport’s history. I think this just proves the point. Yankee fans actively try to distance themselves from A-Rod.

  253. NYYanksFan March 17th, 2012 at 8:05 am

    “does 5 good seasons really qualify arod as a ‘yankee great’?”

    and the disrespect continues! lol

    It does for me.

  254. Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 8:07 am

    no its not a joke. he’s had 6 good seasons here, thats very good, but he had 8 before he got here. he is one of the better hitters in history but more of it took place before he became a yankee. its a fair question whether someone who had the best part of his career before he came to the yankees can really be considered a yankee great as opposed to a baseball great.

    add to that that its very likely that the worst 5 seasons of his career will very likely be in pinstripes.

  255. Tom in N.J. March 17th, 2012 at 8:10 am

    Yeah, a guy who’s had 7 seasons of 30 or more home runs, 2 MVPs, and a playoff performance for the ages doesn’t deserve the title of “Yankee great”…

  256. NYYanksFan March 17th, 2012 at 8:11 am

    284 homeruns, 903 rbi and 2 MVP awards as a Yankee put him in the conversation.

  257. Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 8:13 am

    im not questioning his greatness, hes one of the best hitters ever, but when his career is over i dont think i’m going to think of him as a yankee great, just as a hall of fame player. too much of his hitting took place elsewhere to limit him to yankeeness, imo.

  258. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:13 am

    Good morning.

    Interesting discussion last night over which Pitcher you might trade and for whom ?

    Between Hughes and Nova I have to go with Hughes.

    I hope they don’t decide to trade either though.

    I think Hughes is poised to have a very big season.

    If they did wish to trade him after that his value would be re-established and the return much greater.

    Thing is the Yankees have so many trade options right now it isn’t even funny.

    If they do move someone I would like to see them secure something they really need.

    Like a good young OF’er, or 3rd baseman/Of’er type.

    After the Yankees get to see how things settle out maybe Garcia disappears.

    Need Pitching ? Talk to the Yankees.

    :)

  259. Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 8:15 am

    im putting the chances of andy starting more than 3 games at no better than 50/50 at this point. so i won’t even consider who’s going where if…

  260. Crawdaddy March 17th, 2012 at 8:16 am

    “But ya dumb, son.”

    Ya momma!

  261. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Ys Guy,

    So A-Rod isn’t a Yankee great? Who’s been outperforming A-Rod during his tenure on the team? How many guys in the league have been outperforming A-Rod during that same time span?

    He had his career year with the Yankees too. He was a significant part of the 2009 World Series team, without him we wouldn’t have made it to series.

    Reggie Jackson didn’t play with the Yankees for a majority of his career. Most people would qualify him as a “Yankee great.” I think the term is somewhat arbirtrary, that and “True Yankee.”

  262. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Y’s-

    That’s way more pessimistic than how I see it.

    I’m hoping he’s good for at least 1/2 of a season including some important playoff appearances.

    We’ll just have to see how it pans out.

  263. NYYanksFan March 17th, 2012 at 8:20 am

    By the time A-Rod’s career is over, how many Yankee players will have put up better offensive numbers than him while wearing pinstripes?

    Not many.

  264. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 8:20 am

    MTU,

    I’d trade Nova. I appreciate why one would trade Hughes, but Nova’s a classic sell high candidate. Hughes looks poised to be take another step this season.

  265. Tar March 17th, 2012 at 8:22 am

    The personal attacks against each others opinions last night was awful. I know sometimes its hard, because I’ve done it myself. But we all really need to chill on the personal attacks. This place will be a lot better off for it.

    Back to Yankee baseball. :D

  266. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Kev-

    Hughes will be becoming much more expensive with less years of control.

    This especially true if Hughes starts putting up the #’s he’s capable of.

    OTOH, that argues for wanting to keep him.

    Nova has huge value right now.

    Personally, I hope we get to keep both.

    The Yankee rotation could get very crowded if things go just right.

    But hey, who’s complaining ?

    :)

  267. Carlo March 17th, 2012 at 8:26 am

    Neither hughes nor nova is likely to be traded because 2014 is right around the corner and they aren’t dumping young cost controlled starters for offense ahead of that.

  268. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Brian Cashman might have some very interesting trade offers presented to him over the coming months.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall.

    :)

  269. RadioKev March 17th, 2012 at 8:28 am

    But hey, who’s complaining ?
    ————-

    Exactly :D

  270. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:29 am

    2013 Ro :

    CC
    Nova
    Hughes
    Pineda
    Banuelos/Pettitte

    Phelps/Betances

    Nice.

    :)

  271. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:35 am

    2013 OF :

    Grandy

    GGBG (?)

    ??????

  272. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:36 am

    2013 Closer :

    D-Rob ?

    Soriano ?

  273. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:38 am

    2013 catchers :

    Martin ?

    Romine ?

    Cervelli/Romine ?

    Catcher X/Romine ?

  274. pkyankfan69 March 17th, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Do you guys think we will see Andy pitch a game or 2 at Trenton?

    Also, love the signing…. Great to have Andy back.
    The 2011 Red Sox proved that you can never have enough pitching depth.

  275. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    What do the NYY’s Pitching staff and the “Marianus trench” have in common ?

    :)

  276. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 8:44 am

    We’ll definitely see Andy pitch at Trenton.

  277. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Our AAA staff is gonna be better than a lot Pro teams starting Ro’s.

    :)

  278. Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 8:47 am

    i dont question arod’s greatness. but i did a mock draft last night and drafted him at #78, so the answer to your question of who’s better now is too numerous to mention.

  279. Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 8:48 am

    reggie was one of my favorites before he came to the yankees. i dont consider him a yankee great i consider him a baseball great.

  280. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    When I was growing up in NYC there was a Deli that made these outrageously thick and delicious
    corned beef sandwiches.

    I forget the name of the place.

    So humungous you couldn’t almost couldn’t get your mouth around the to take a bite.

    That’s this year’s NYY Pitching staff.

    A juicy, delicious, humungous corned beef sandwich.

    Pickle included.

    :)

  281. Villa Nova-Ya March 17th, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Wow.

    Talking about Montero and Posada as equals is really premature.

    Nothing is black and white. There are nuances. I believe the Yankees really did care about Jorge’s health, but it was also a pragmatic decision. For instance, if the Martin wasn’t available, would the Yankees have told Jorge before the season that he wasn’t catching, and leave the catching to those with lesser experience? We’ll never know.

    It would have been so much easier if Montero’s catching skills were a little better than apparently the Yankees (and many scouts, it seems) believed.

    Circumstances play into decisions. Availability of unavailability of players have a part. So many things. Including relationships between the organization and the players, which we really are not privy to. Did the Yankees take a hard line with Posada? Sure. Disrespect? No, I don’t think so. The man kept getting put into the lineup when he was not hitting at all, when anyone else would have been benched. You can talk about small sample sizes all you want, but Posada was not hitting. He got it together, at least from one side of the plate, for the latter part of the season, and he had an amazing post-season. It was his history with the Yankees, and their RESPECT for him and their understanding of the situation that they had put him in which kept him in the lineup at all in the early part of the season.

    And talk about disrespect which I think is over-talked here, when Posada was a free agent, who doesn’t think he would have jumped to the Mets for that extra year? I don’t think he was bluffing. He may have preferred to stay with the Yankees, but not if he could get a better deal elsewhere.

    Anyway, it was a lousy end to a wonderful Yankee career for Posada.

  282. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:54 am

    By the way.

    Pass the mustard please.

    :)

  283. Yankee Trader March 17th, 2012 at 8:55 am

    Good morning.

    I didn’t find out until around midnight last night that Petitte is returning. I was at a play then when I returned was watching the Notre Dame- Xavier game.

    BTW Chad- What the h*** happened to Mizzou. I had them going to the final 4.

    YF, MTU-

    So what is the consensus once Andy is ready to come back to the Bigs. I hope we don’t trade any of the youngins-Hughes, Nova, to get a bat unless it’s Justin Upton :)

  284. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Talking about Montero and Posada as equals is really premature.
    __________
    Have to leave for work in a minute. But who equated Montero with Posada???

  285. Yankee Trader March 17th, 2012 at 8:57 am

    MTU-

    Salivate over this-Carnegie Deli-is that the place?

    http://www.carnegiedeli.com/home.php

  286. Tar March 17th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    “It was his history with the Yankees, and their RESPECT for him and their understanding of the situation that they had put him in which kept him in the lineup at all in the early part of the season.”

    More like his salary and lack of better options. I don’t think respect played any part of their descion.

  287. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Morning Trader et al,

    I am content to wait and see on how the pitching staff plays out, but I don’t want to lose either of the young’uns and it is a long season. However, something has to change. It’ll be interesting to see how Phelps pitches this Thursday. We have a bunch of ready/near ready mlb pitchers and no place to advance them to.

  288. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 8:59 am

    YT-

    My take is that the Yankees will take it slow and evaluate what there needs are.

    If everyone is healthy and Pitching well by around June they probably bust a move.

    Garcia would be the most likely guy to go IMO. Other possibilities might exist.

    Perhaps, an injury sorts things out, or an underperform on someone’s part.

    This is a dream sitaution with AP now back in the fold.

    Ever hear of “sittin’ pretty” ?

    Well this is it !

    ;)

  289. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 9:00 am

    Tar, agree.

  290. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:01 am

    YT-

    I don’t think that’s the specific one but it was certainly a place like that.

    Yum.

    :)

  291. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:03 am

    YF-

    Most teams would die to have our Pitching problems.

    The operative term over the coming months is “Trade chip”.

    Who is and who is not ?

    ;)

  292. 86w183 March 17th, 2012 at 9:04 am

    There are probably 50 or more Delicatessens in NYC that serve up huge Corned Beef sandwiches.

    That’s like asking about that place in Manhattan where they have great steaks.

    As for Pettite, I think it’s great. Of course had he made that decision earlier the Yanks probably don’t make some of their other moves, but c’est la vie’

    I’d be shocked if there isn’t a significant trade made to acquire a young position player. With potentially seven MLB starters and a loaded AAA rotation there’s really no reason not to do something.

    Very happy with and for Hughes so far. Still hope Dickerson makes the club. I like having that kind of speed/defense on the bench.

  293. Yankee Trader March 17th, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Have to go. Will check back later. It’s nice to have too much pitching, isn’t it? :)

    Great day all!

  294. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:06 am

    I am considering writng a letter to Congress asking them to name NYC a World heritage site just for their Pizza alone.

    This does not even begin to take in all the other national treasures like Italian bakeries, corned beef sandwiches, and the like.

    ;)

  295. MaineYankee March 17th, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Ys Guy March 17th, 2012 at 8:47 am
    i dont question arod’s greatness. but i did a mock draft last night and drafted him at #78, so the answer to your question of who’s better now is too numerous to mention.

    ————————————————————————————————————

    And that explains why those people are playing fantasy bb and not gm’s

  296. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 9:12 am

    MY, you follow Maine hockey?

  297. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:13 am

    MY-

    I watched your show last night for a while.

    Other than the southern part Maine is pretty much wilderness.

    My kinda’ place.

    :)

  298. MaineYankee March 17th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 9:12 am
    MY, you follow Maine hockey?

    ————————————————–

    On occasion.

    They aren’t on tv in the southern part of the state often so it’s rare to see them.

    I did watch them last night.

    They made me nervous not getting the puck out of their end enough in the 3rd period.

    BC will be a big challenge.

  299. blake March 17th, 2012 at 9:19 am

    I would guess that the Yanks will listen to teams offers about several of their guys….they ideally need a young bat….an outfielder Ideally and Cashman has to demand something worthwhile in return…..an Alex Gordon, Logan Morrison, Will Myers….etc….if he can’t get a guy like that or a good established player like a Choo then they’ll pass.

    They do have excess and if something makes sense that’ll improve the club thenbim sure they’ll look at it….but it’d have to be the right deal for then to trade a Hughes or Nova.

  300. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:20 am

    maine-

    that musta’ hurt like heck having the puck in their end all night.

    :)

  301. MaineYankee March 17th, 2012 at 9:21 am

    MTU

    Yes , nothern Maine is mostly trees, logging roads and water.

    I’m about 50mi north of Portland and their is plenty of woods and water.

    Just don’t have to go as far to get to Wal-Mart. :lol:

  302. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    MY, should be a great game tonight. Maine will have to win to advance in the NCAA, I’d think. We actually for the first time get Hockey East on NBC Sports net down here in NY area. I’m rooting for BC, but have appreciated the rivalry between the two teams over the years. Maine has had some great great teams, especially the ones with Paul Kariya.

  303. 86w183 March 17th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Blake — I agree with the targets you suggested. Obviously the price tag will be high, but the price tag on Pineda was high, too.

    I just don’t think they can pass on every possibility… not if all on hand are healthy and performing well.

    It’s a nice problem to have considering some of the guys they’ve had to run out there in recent years.

  304. Stoneburner March 17th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Interesting – interesting – interesting – Mark Montgomery pitching w/ Trenton in minor league camp. . . .could be quick riser this year possibly.

    Yankeesource ? @YankeeSource Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
    David Phelps has impressed me, and his velocity has looked better as well. Big fan of Phelps so hopefully he has a solid year.

  305. Villa Nova-Ya March 17th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    “More like his salary and lack of better options. I don’t think respect played any part of their descion.”

    Tar, as I said in my post there are a lot of reasons why things happen the way they do, and certainly the money played into that, as well. But I stand by my belief that the word “disrespect” is way over-used here.

  306. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Maine-

    The focus of a lot of the show seemed to be on “poaching”.

    Not the eggy kind.

    The leggy kind. As in Deer.

    Are those Hunters up there that bad a shot that they need to get the Deer in the headlights first ?

    They should practice more.

    :)

  307. MaineYankee March 17th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:20 am
    maine-

    that musta’ hurt like heck having the puck in their end all night.

    ———————————————————————————-

    They had to wait for someone to go get some E-Lax.

  308. MTU March 17th, 2012 at 9:27 am

    New thread —–>

  309. MaineYankee March 17th, 2012 at 9:31 am

    yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 9:23 am
    MY, should be a great game tonight. Maine will have to win to advance in the NCAA, I’d think. We actually for the first time get Hockey East on NBC Sports net down here in NY area. I’m rooting for BC, but have appreciated the rivalry between the two teams over the years. Maine has had some great great teams, especially the ones with Paul Kariya.

    —————————————————————————-

    I think from what I heard on the radio they thought Maine was in regardless.

    They haven’t been as good since Walsh died.

    The goalie for Detroit is from UMO too.

  310. Villa Nova-Ya March 17th, 2012 at 9:32 am

    yankeefeminista -

    If I misread or misunderstood some prior posts, I stand corrected.

  311. yankeefeminista March 17th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Villa, no worries. Heading to work.

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    Andy’s availability must have been a factor that sealed the deal to get rid of AJ.

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